Introducing the Sr. Director, Diversity & Inclusion at Walmart People and the brains behind the iconic blue Walmart vest: Kristal Mooney. From private investigator to learning and development professional, Kristal’s DEIB journey takes just about every twist and turn—and we were living for every minute of it! Tune in as we discuss DEIB at scale: the benefits, the challenges, and little-big wins that any organization can implement into their DEIB roadmaps, regardless of their size.
Kristal’s Book & Influencer Recommendations:
Introducing the Sr. Director, Diversity & Inclusion at Walmart People and the brains behind the iconic blue Walmart vest: Kristal Mooney. From private investigator to learning and development professional, Kristal’s DEIB journey takes just about every twist and turn—and we were living for every minute of it! Tune in as we discuss DEIB at scale: the benefits, the challenges, and little-big wins that any organization can implement into their DEIB roadmaps, regardless of their size.
Kristal’s Book & Influencer Recommendations:
Mike Cole 0:06
Well hello everybody and welcome to Peoplecast! I'm your host, Mike Cole and with us today, as always, is our co-host and producer extraordinaire, Jerrin Padre.
Jerrin Padre 0:16
What's up, guys?
Mike Cole 0:19
What's up guys?
Jerrin Padre 0:21
Now I feel so nervous every time I greet you back because I feel like it's gonna be received with judgment.
Mike Cole 0:27
It's not judgment! I'm just curious to see what you're gonna say because a previous episode you said, "salutations," right?
Jerrin Padre 0:33
Yeah, I did. I did say that.
Mike Cole 0:35
Most of the time, it's "hello."
Jerrin Padre 0:38
Yeah.
Mike Cole 0:38
Yeah.
Jerrin Padre 0:39
I feel like that's just how I greet people in general. So just trying to stay authentic. Taking one out Heather's book.
Mike Cole 0:46
Ah. Heather Shelton would be proud. Yeah. So, hot today there in LA?
Jerrin Padre 0:51
Not as hot as the other day. For listeners, I had to turn off my AC the other day and my camera because I was super sweaty. But today it's relatively—I mean, it's still warm, but that's fine.
Mike Cole 1:04
That's good. That's good. It's a balmy 68 degrees here in my house.
Jerrin Padre 1:08
Wow, that is so nice for you.
Mike Cole 1:12
I hear a third person laughing on the episode. So that's cool. Today on the episode, we have Kristal Mooney! Kristal is the Senior Director of Diversity and Inclusion, and L&L Business Partner at Walmart. Welcome, Kristal.
Kristal Mooney 1:25
Thank you. I am so excited to be here. I was surprised when you asked me, so I'm super pumped.
Mike Cole 1:31
Why would you be surprised?
Jerrin Padre 1:32
Yeah.
Kristal Mooney 1:35
Oddly enough, this is my first podcast.
Mike Cole 1:38
Well, so far, you're doing really well. We'll see what happens after the next few minutes. And if you're not disconnected, then you made—you know, you pass the grade and you've made it through interview, so yeah.
Kristal Mooney 1:51
Well, I am, like I said, super excited to be here.
Mike Cole 1:54
Well, we are super glad you're here. The whole focus of this season has been humanizing DEIB. And the minute we were looking for guests and trying to solicit participation on the show, your name popped into the mind first. It's like, "Okay, we've got to get Kristal," because of your personality and what you stand for. And just all the things right? Everything you've done,
Jerrin Padre 2:18
And the fact that you designed the blue vest for Walmart, which is a fun fact that I just learned.
Kristal Mooney 2:25
Yes, fun facts. Long story, great experience. It is kind of cool to walk into a Walmart store and see the vest and go, "Oh my gosh, I did that." That's that's pretty incredible.
Jerrin Padre 2:37
Oh, I'm sure!
Mike Cole 2:38
How many iterations?
Kristal Mooney 2:39
I mean, there were probably five or six, not too many. We actually had a final vest that was approved, and then at the very last minute the Walmart US CEO changed a very big detail about the vest. And once that happens, it's like, "Okay, well, we're going to move in that direction." So—but it was a great project and I love to see people wearing it, and be excited about wearing it, and feeling good about themselves, which is ultimately what we wanted.
Jerrin Padre 3:06
Have you seen that one Til Tok video, Kristal, of those boys that accidentally become models for different franchises? And I think it always starts with, "Here's the story of how we became Walmart models, kind of."
Kristal Mooney 3:17
No, but I have got to go—I need you to email that to me immediately because I must go find it.
Jerrin Padre 3:22
Oh my gosh, it's so funny. They did one for Walmart and it was great. They got away with it. They posted like a "we're hiring" sign wearing the blue vest, and it—I feel like this made me think of that.
Kristal Mooney 3:33
Now that's amazing. I don't think we leverage Tik Tok enough. I think we need to do more within Tik Tok because I follow some Walmart associates, and they are absolutely one: hilarious and or incredibly talented.
Mike Cole 3:45
I'm not a Tik-Toker.
Kristal Mooney 3:47
We need to get you on Tik Tok.
Mike Cole 3:49
Yeah you need to. I'm just so focused on Instagram and occasionally Facebook, so... Alright Kristal, tell you what, I have a game that we're gonna play. The game is called This or That. Are you up for that?
Kristal Mooney 4:01
I'm absolutely up for anything.
Mike Cole 4:03
Okay, we're gonna lead off with the very first make-or-break question. You ready?
Kristal Mooney 4:08
Yeah, let me breathe. Okay.
Mike Cole 4:10
All right, here we go. Star Trek or Star Wars?
Kristal Mooney 4:14
Oh, gosh. Star Wars.
Mike Cole 4:19
Yes!
Jerrin Padre 4:21
Woo-hoo!
Mike Cole 4:21
Hand is moving away from the HANG UP button right now.
Kristal Mooney 4:25
*laughing*
Mike Cole 4:27
All right, next question Kristal: Ask permission or beg forgiveness?
Kristal Mooney 4:31
Oh, beg forgiveness for sure. Every day, all day, twice on Sunday. I don't really know what that means. But it is the saying that I say a lot.
Kristal + Jerrin 4:39
*laughing*
Mike Cole 4:41
Alright, next question. Climb a mountain or jump from a plane?
Kristal Mooney 4:46
No, I will never jump from a plane, climb a mountain for sure. I have a fear of jumping out of anything. I have a hard time just jumping in my pool.
Mike Cole 4:54
Okay! Next question. Have you ever seen a kangaroo in person?
Kristal Mooney 4:58
I know that I have. But I don't know that I appreciated it the way that I should have. So I'm sure I've gone to a zoo and seen a kangaroo. But they're—not to go back to Tik Tok videos, but now I have this appreciation or fear of kangaroos because—I don't know if you've seen the one where there's two people, and they're driving in a car, and they stop because there's this kangaroo that is sitting in the driveway of a house. And when I say this kangaroo was more buff than any athlete I've ever seen, it was scary. And I couldn't take my eyes away from it.
Jerrin Padre 5:35
What was that movie in the early 2000s? That starred a kangaroo in like a basketball jersey?
Kristal Mooney 5:40
Oh! Umm.
Jerrin Padre 5:41
Was that Kangaroo Jack?
Mike Cole 5:43
That was Kangaroo Jack.
Kristal Mooney 5:44
Was it? It was!
Mike Cole 5:45
It was Kangaroo Jack.
Jerrin Padre 5:46
I didn't see it. But I just remember all the previews for it.
Editor's Notes 5:49
(Fun fact: the movie was accused of false advertising due to featuring a totally different plot in the previews versus the actual movie.)
Mike Cole 5:52
Yeah, Kangaroo Jack is right up there with Air Bud.
Jerrin Padre 5:53
Okay, okay. It was that era, Yeah.
Kristal Mooney 5:55
It was. It was that era.
Mike Cole 5:55
Air Bud.
Kristal Mooney 5:56
I can't believe you remember that.
Mike Cole 5:57
Can you believe that was an Air Bud 2?
Jerrin Padre 5:59
No! I mean, I'm not surprised.
Mike Cole 6:03
Air Bud 2: It's A Dog Again. I mean, how much further can you go with that?
Jerrin Padre 6:07
I feel like there's a very specific person who loves movies that are centered around animals, particularly dogs. I feel like my mother is one of those people.
Kristal Mooney 6:17
*laughing*
Jerrin Padre 6:18
Me and Marley—what was the one with the golden retriever, Marley?
Mike Cole 6:22
Marley And Me.
Jerrin Padre 6:22
Marley And Me.
Kristal Mooney 6:23
Marley And Me?
Jerrin Padre 6:24
Yeah, she loved that one.
Kristal Mooney 6:27
I typically can't watch those because I feel like something sad is gonna happen and I can't take it.
Jerrin Padre 6:31
Yeah.
Kristal Mooney 6:31
I can't take it.
Mike Cole 6:33
So you get into Old Yeller mode, right?
Kristal Mooney 6:37
Oh, right through the heart.
Jerrin Padre 6:39
Is it Sheryl Crow that sings "In The Arms Of An Angel" over all the Humane Society advertisements?
Mike Cole 6:46
Nope, that's Sarah McLaughlin.
Jerrin Padre 6:48
Sarah—Oh god, I've sinned. Forgive me.
Kristal Mooney 6:54
I still like you, Jerrin. I mean, two totally different artists. But I still like you.
Jerrin Padre 6:59
Totally different. I'm mortified. I'm gonna leave.
Kristal + Jerrin 7:02
*laughing*
Mike Cole 7:04
All right, next question. When you fly on a plane, do you wear a neck pillow?
Kristal Mooney 7:08
Mike, the amount of neck pillows that I've purchased is astronomical. However, I rarely use them.
Mike Cole 7:18
Yeah, especially with the way the seats are arranged in the plane. It's like—it pushes your head forward. Right?
Kristal Mooney 7:25
It does. It's not comfortable. Now I did—what I am excited about is I recently purchased some Away luggage.
Jerrin Padre 7:33
Oooh!
Kristal Mooney 7:33
I bit the bullet. I feel so "in." So on trend.
Jerrin Padre 7:36
So trendy! Yes.
Kristal Mooney 7:38
So trendy. And I also bought the blanket. And, the blanket—I also bought the pillow. The blanket buttons to the pillow so you don't have to like keep waking up and putting the covers over you.
Jerrin Padre 7:52
It'll stay up like a bib?
Kristal Mooney 7:54
Yeah, yeah. Like a bib! Exactly!
Jerrin Padre 7:56
Oh my god, get me in an Away bib this instant.
Mike Cole 7:59
Wow.
Kristal Mooney 8:00
*laughing*
So, I think my answer is yes.
Mike Cole 8:05
I would think that that's a hard yes. See, I'm the most impersonal person on a plane. I mean, I like people. I like talking to people. I consider myself borderline introvert/extrovert, but on a plane, I am baseball cap down, sunglasses on, headphones in. Leave me alone.
Jerrin Padre 8:24
What's your personality type, Mike? Your Myers-Briggs personality type?
Mike Cole 8:28
Oh, actually, I was ENFJ, so. And it was borderline INFJ. But ENFJ is what I tested at.
Kristal Mooney 8:38
I could see that.
Jerrin Padre 8:39
Yeah, me too.
Mike Cole 8:40
And on Berkman. I'm a green-blue.
Kristal Mooney 8:41
Oh me too!
Mike Cole 8:42
My usual is green, but my stress is blue, so.
Kristal Mooney 8:45
Oh my gosh, we're the same person, Mike!
Mike Cole 8:47
I know!
Kristal Mooney 8:48
I can see that though. We have a lot of similarities.
Mike Cole 8:49
Yeah.
Jerrin Padre 8:50
Are you also an ENFJ, Kristal?
Kristal Mooney 8:52
I think I am. I think there's one letter that may be off because, like, I was thinking—people think that I'm very extroverted all the time, and, yes, I can be, but I've discovered through COVID that I am much more introverted than I ever thought. So I'm also...
Jerrin Padre 9:08
Yeah.
Kristal Mooney 9:09
Headphones in, sunglasses, hat. Like, don't talk to me on a plane.
Mike Cole 9:14
Yeah.
Jerrin Padre 9:14
I get that though. Because I feel like I get so much energy from connecting with my loved ones, and—or just anyone one-on-one. But I feel like the interaction has to be meaningful. Otherwise, I don't want it, Like I reject all other social interaction. I don't like small talk. I even have trouble like picking up the phone and ordering a pizza. That might just be because I'm like a Millennial with a Gen-Z rising. And we just didn't talk on the phone. But I don't know why. I think it's just because, like, I know there's so much more I would like to talk about with someone than ordering my food, which is unrealistic. I acknowledge that. But yeah, there's a weird aversion to like those kinds of social interactions.
Mike Cole 9:55
Alright, three more questions, three more.
Kristal Mooney 9:57
Okay!
Mike Cole 9:57
Polka dots or stripes? And I think I know the answer to this.
Kristal Mooney 10:01
Oh my gosh, this is so hard. I mean, I want them together. I love mixing patterns.
Mike Cole 10:06
Exactly. That was my answer—was both.
Kristal Mooney 10:09
*laughing* Yes exactly!
Mike Cole 10:10
But I was correct. So for journaling, writing in a journal, or journaling in general. Paper or computer?
Kristal Mooney 10:18
Oh, paper, I'm still so paper.
Mike Cole 10:20
Okay, so you ready for your last question?
Kristal Mooney 10:22
Yes.
Mike Cole 10:22
How would you rate your karaoke skills on a scale of one to Mariah Carey?
Kristal Mooney 10:26
Oh, I mean, easily a—ooh, not a Pink. I would say I'm more cruise lounge. I do love to sing. I used to sing in former lives and I don't even need drinks in me. But if you give me a microphone, and once I start, I can't stop. I do love some karaoke. My go-to song is "Just A Girl" by No Doubt.
Jerrin Padre 10:50
So totally different spectrum, then. I feel like Pink needs her own spectrum.
Kristal Mooney 10:54
Yes. Yes. 100%.
Mike Cole 10:57
Anyway, there you go. That was it. Kristal, you survived. You survived This or That? You did it.
Kristal Mooney 11:03
I did it, I felt really good.
Mike Cole 11:04
You made it!
Kristal Mooney 11:06
Yeah, I feel like I'm here. I'm present. I'm feeling good.
Mike Cole 11:10
I tell you what, again, super excited to have you on the show. I know we're gonna get some really good discussion. We've already had some amazing discussion so far. But I want to get into a little bit more about the work that you do and your perspective on some different things. So let's—I just want to lead off with one question. And we've kind of gotten a little snippets of it in our This or That segment. But tell us your story. Where did you grow up?
Kristal Mooney 11:37
Yes. Where did I grow up? So I grew up in a an extremely small community in Central Arkansas. It was a little town called Glen Rose. And my little school that I went to, there was—I think I graduated with 40 other people. I think there were 40 people in my graduating class. So that is where I grew up. I guess for most of my life—well, most of my teenage years. I went there from kindergarten through through 12th grade. And then I moved to Little Rock, Arkansas.
Mike Cole 12:08
And?
Kristal Mooney 12:09
Oh, and...
Mike Cole 12:10
What happened in Little Rock?
Kristal Mooney 12:12
... I continue? *laughing*
Mike Cole 12:13
Yeah keep going! Your life certainly didn't end in Little Rock, so.
Kristal Mooney 12:17
No, it didn't. It did not end. Close, a couple of times. No, I went to Little Rock and I went to UALR. And I had no idea what I wanted to do with my life. And I was there for probably two years. I was on a four year full ride scholarship. lost it at two and a half years. And then from Little Rock, I moved back to Central Arkansas. But then I feel like this is where my life really picked up—which was—that's when I moved to Lafayette, Louisiana. And Lafayette, Louisiana became my second home and I wasn't there long in terms of how many years I lived there. But the friendships and the families that I kind of—I feel like they taught me and they raised me. And I still go back and I still am close to those individuals.
And then from Lafayette, I moved to Monticello, Arkansas, and that's where I actually graduated school. I had a criminal justice and political science major. And moved to Houston, Texas. Probably another fun fact, that's where I took a role right out of college as a private investigator. And that was a short amount of time in my life, but I learned a ton and I was humbled as an individual. It was lots of driving, lots of time spent in a car in the Houston heat. I mean those—there's so many stories I could provide there. But then from Houston is when I moved up to Northwest Arkansas, and where I discovered Walmart and I'm like, "I don't understand this. Why—how does everybody work at Walmart?" And then I soon discovered. I left the private investigation business and then that's why I transferred into Walmart. And that's kind of where my career started and is where I still am today.
Mike Cole 14:09
I'm sorry, I...
Kristal Mooney 14:10
Is there more that you'd like? Are you stunned that I was a PI? *laughing*
Mike Cole 14:10
No, I have in my head, now—I have this really cool sitcom playing in my head, now, on the streets of Houston starting Kristal Mooney, so sorry.
Jerrin Padre 14:10
In the Houston sun.
Mike Cole 14:10
Houston Heat!
Kristal Mooney 14:10
You could call it Houston Heat!
Mike Cole 14:10
Houston Heat is the name of the show. Yes, Houston Heat.
Kristal Mooney 14:33
It was something. It was something. It's not what I thought it was going to be. There were days when it was, and then there were days where I'm like, "I'm going to die here. They're going to find me in this car, because I'm going to literally—" You know, because you're doing PI work. So you have to sit on homes, or sit at locations where you feel like your claimant is going to be, and you have to appear that no one's in the vehicle. And so that means that you're In the summer—and Houston, you know how hot it is. And then you're in your car, and you can't run it. You can't run your air, you can't turn your car on, you can't leave, you can't crack your windows. So it would get like 135-140 in my car. There would be days where I'm like, "Well, this is it." And you know, no one knows where you are. You know, except for your work location. It's not like you're checking in, like, "Well, here it is, my last day on the earth."
Mike Cole 15:29
So, I do have to ask, what was the strangest case—that you can talk about—that you ever worked as a PI?
Kristal Mooney 15:37
So you never knew day-to-day where you were going to be, and you kind of scout out where you're going to be the day before. And then you have to be on the case at like 6:00 am. And I remember scoping it out the night before, and it was in this really nice subdivision. And I'm like, "Oh, thank goodness." Because it's—a nice subdivision means that I'm going to be safe. And there's probably going to be a lot of places for me to land and then observe, and do what I need to do. And so that morning, I go over. I'm in the neighborhood, and then my claimant leaves the house, and I'm thinking, "Yes!" I'm gonna—not only, you know, am I safe, I'm gonna get some really good video footage.
And so I follow the individual, and I follow them. They drop their kids off at school. I'm like, "Okay, so good so far. I've already got video footage, this person is active, this is going to be a good day." And then he goes to probably one of the worst, most dangerous locations in Dallas. And that's where I started kind of getting a little skeptical. I start getting a little nervous. And then he quickly realized that I was following him. And I don't think he was—he probably thought I was following him for different reasons. And I remember I lost steam, and in an effort to try to find him, I pulled up at this stop sign. And I look over, and he's right beside me. And he's looking at me, and he has a gun. And I think, in a nervous, like, state, I giggled. I laughed like—Mike. I don't know if, Mike or Jerrin, you've been in the situation, but you just don't know what to do, and all I could do was laugh. And then I just took off. I took off. I ran the stop sign trying to just flee that situation. And then I got me a milkshake because I needed something to calm my nerves. *laughing* And I called my manager and I'm like, "Yep, I'm out. I'm not doing this." So my three-day case turned into a day case. And that was a pretty scary incident. But I don't know why I laughed and felt like I needed a milkshake.
Kristal + Mike 17:55
*laughing*
Mike Cole 17:57
I've got so many mental pictures already from this conversation, not just this one. But even just previous conversation. I just literally play out scripts in my head involving Kristal. So I just I imagined the laugh, and the turn-and-run, and, "I'm gonna go get a milkshake." It could literally be its own show.
Kristal Mooney 18:16
You're already on episode three in your head.
Mike Cole 18:18
Exactly. Exactly. The pilot's done. and we're on episode three right now. So. Okay. Having said all of that, is there anything that you apply to your work today? I'm not necessarily talking about PI work, I mean.
Kristal Mooney 18:33
Right.
Mike Cole 18:33
And just kind of your childhood all the way through—are there any things that you apply to your position or your work today?
Kristal Mooney 18:40
Oh, God. Absolutely. Absolutely. I can remember, in seventh grade—now Jerrin, you may not have had this because you're just a tad younger than me—but if you remember, in seventh grade, you would take one of those assessments and the results would come back, and it would tell you what you should be when you grow up. Do you remember those?
Jerrin Padre 19:00
Oh, yeah, yeah.
Mike Cole 19:01
Definitely.
Jerrin Padre 19:02
They still do that.
Kristal Mooney 19:03
What was your—do you remember what yours was Mike or Jerrin?
Mike Cole 19:06
Oh yeah, I was—forest ranger was what I should have been doing.
Kristal Mooney 19:10
*laughing*
Jerrin Padre 19:10
Oh my gosh, Mike you would be an amazing ranger!
Mike Cole 19:15
Yep! I was supposed to be a forest ranger.
Kristal Mooney 19:15
You love nature!
Mike Cole 19:18
Yeah, I love the woods. I loved animals and still do, you know. But yeah, I wanted to be a forest ranger because that's what the assessment told me.
Kristal + Jerrin 19:27
*laughing*
Mike Cole 19:27
And look at me now. Look at me now.
Kristal Mooney 19:29
Look at you now. Jerrin, do you remember?
Jerrin Padre 19:32
Yeah, mine are kind of all the things that I've done, or am doing now. So I think it was like actor, entertainer, a teacher, entrepreneur.
Kristal Mooney 19:41
I love it!
Jerrin Padre 19:43
It pegged me. Yep. I also felt seen when I took that test.
Kristal + Mike 19:49
*laughing*
Kristal Mooney 19:49
I love it.
Jerrin Padre 19:49
And I felt bad. I felt bad for the kids who would get something that they, you know, didn't—something that didn't resonate with them. Like I remember one of my friends. She is now a comedian, but I think she got accountant or something. And she was like, "Never in my life."
Kristal + Mike 20:06
*laughing*
Kristal Mooney 20:09
I love that. I remember people getting the reports back. And there were pages and pages of occupations. Like, you know, one page, up to two or three pages. And I had three lines on mine. And my three lines were detective/investigator, police officer, attorney. And there were just three. So I'm like, "Well, for surely that is what I'm destined to be." And then I don't think I had proper guidance at the university to really direct me where I should have gone. But I loved it. And I think that's the only reason I stuck with school was because this work was so interesting to me. And I just loved it. And I think about those transferable skills—Mike—and I think I carry with me curiosity. Like, I was so curious about the criminal side, and why people make the decisions that they make, and nature versus nurture, and then the psychology behind it. So I carry with me the curiosity, and then also the discovery, and just digging to try to figure out what that looks like. Like just—and being very resourceful. Very, very resourceful. And so those were the things I feel like I took from that work that has been able to really impact my career even today.
Jerrin Padre 21:34
So Kristal, you mentioned resourcefulness as one of those translated skills. And something that Mike and I have been talking about a lot is just—for those companies that may not have the resources to put together a sophisticated DEIB rollout plan. Obviously, now you work at a very large retailer that I'm sure has a larger budget for their DEIB initiatives. But, throughout your experience, what would you say are some little "big wins" that may not require a lot of money, or too much time effort on behalf of leadership, but that really can make a difference within an organization?
Kristal Mooney 22:13
That's a really good question. I think, you know, even though the organization that I work for, Walmart, has, you know, great budgets, that there have been times where—say, for instance, if you work at, you know, Sam's Club, which I've worked at Sam's Club before, budgets are much smaller. So I think that's where that resourcefulness comes in. The importance of expanding your network. When I think about the network I started creating, you know, very young in my career, those are some of the connections that I still have today. And when I think about some of the people that I've worked with in the past, they've—you know, they've moved on, and moved on to other organizations where, you know, they're the Chief Diversity Officer, or they're Head of Culture and Belonging. So I think it's just expanding that network, and researching, and doing the benchmarking to see, "What are other organizations doing?" There's so much, especially right now. There's so much content that is out there. And there's just so many things that you can figure out, and find out, and build internally, without really spending a lot of money on programs. And there are—we were just talking. Me and my leader were talking earlier, and there's a lot of vendors and suppliers out there that are doing amazing work, but it's really expensive. And we've talked about using our network, and using our skills, and using, you know, the people that we've worked with in the past that have moved on to other things, leveraging all of that and creating kind of almost a community for learning. So I think there's so many creative ways that you can implement programming today. It doesn't have to cost a ton.
Jerrin Padre 24:00
Do you think it's easier to roll out those initiatives or secure buy-in at those smaller organizations? Or do you feel like, with the resources that are allotted to larger organizations, that it's actually easier there?
Kristal Mooney 24:14
You know, the only thing that I have that to compare to—because I'm pretty new in the D&I space formally. I feel like I've done D&I work for a really long time. But this is the first time I've done it formally. The only thing that I have a compare it to in my career was I worked for Walmart US for for quite some time. And obviously budgets for Walmart US are larger, and then I transferred to Sam's Club. And being in a smaller organization, I felt like it was easier to gain buy-in, and it was easier to influence others. There's a little bit less red tape, you can move at a quicker pace. The challenge is just the sheer lack of human capital and budget dollars. And so that's where the hustle begins. And that's where, you know, that resourcefulness comes into play. So going back to Walmart—yes, there's a larger budget, but you're going to have more red tape, you're going to have more leaders to walk through for buy-in. So it is different. And I've seen Sam's Club, specifically, do a remarkable job very quickly, when it comes to DEIB initiatives. I've been trying to work on more of an enterprise impact with resources in education. Last summer, after the murder of George Floyd, we quickly tried to pull together and curate content to help leaders now. We know they needed resources right then and there. And Sam's Club was able to deliver that with speed, whereas, from an enterprise perspective, it took us a little longer. So I do feel like it's a little easier to roll out those initiatives in smaller organizations, but it takes a lot. It's just a lot of hustle and resourcefulness. You can't just buy it, you know, off the shelf. Does that answer your question?
Jerrin Padre 26:16
Oh, yeah. And that makes sense, too, because I feel like the needs of every organization—they're so different.
Kristal Mooney 26:23
They really are. I mean, if you think about, you know—if I think about just, you know, various industries today, what Tech is going to need is going to be very different than Supply Chain and Logistics. So each business segment is so different, and their needs are different. And there's going to be different concentrations. So yeah, absolutely.
Jerrin Padre 26:44
You mentioned you were involved in D&I work, unofficially, but prior to this. So what are some of the other things that you feel like you've been working on, prior to taking this very official D&I strategist role.
Kristal Mooney 26:58
So officially, like with work, I started off at Walmart in the legal department, and I did employment litigation. I was a paralegal. And we worked on, you know, sexual harassment, discrimination, those types of lawsuits. And I remember coming to Walmart and not realizing the opportunities that existed in this massive organization. And the two areas I really kind of honed in on were recruiting, and learning and development. And I could not get an interview with recruiting, and someone took a chance on me in learning and development. And I didn't know anything about learning and development. That was not my background, obviously. But what I did have a lot of knowledge on was just policy and procedure when it came to sexual harassment, discrimination, those types of policies. So I took this role as—and Mike knows this role very well—as an instructional designer. And they said, "You know what, we'll teach you the development. Like, we just want your, again, your resourcefulness, your hustle, your knowledge—like, that's what we want. We'll teach you the learning and development part." And I was awful in that role, I'll just be very clear, I was terrible.
Mike Cole 28:06
You were not horrible! My goodness.
Kristal Mooney 28:09
*laughing* I was not good. But I had this opportunity to teach Diversity and Inclusion. It was a course that was required, and it was rolling out across the organization. And so that is where I was kind of introduced to D&I formally. While it had been a passion my whole life, and it was something that I was an advocate and a champion for, to be able to do that at work and teach that course to hundr—I mean, I probably taught that course to thousands and thousands of individuals. It was probably one of the highlights of my career, to be able to sit in in classrooms and have these really robust, deep discussions around race in the workplace, and around Inclusion. It was just phenomenal work. And I did that for a long time. And so that was kind of my introduction to D&I officially.
Jerrin Padre 29:09
Have you received any pushback throughout your journey?
Kristal Mooney 29:13
Um, probably so. A couple of—one of the biggest pieces of feedback I received, it was actually—I was getting what they called "master certified." And so, basically, what that means is I could teach others how to teach this content. And again, huge passion. And it comes across when I facilitate, and when I teach. And I remember getting feedback. He said, "Kristal," he said. "I was thinking about you this morning, as I was brushing my teeth." And I thought, "Well that's a weird way to start out this conversation."
Jerrin Padre 29:46
Yeah!
Kristal Mooney 29:47
Let's see where this goes. And he said, "I was thinking about, you know, your passion for this work, and you facilitating this." He goes, "It made me think of, like, a fire." Listen, I thought, "I'm about to get the best piece of feedback I've ever received!" Like a fire. Like, "Yes!" Like, fiery, passionate, you know? And, "Do you know what a fire does?" And I'm like, "It's bright!" Like, I'm thinking all of the positive things. "It does all of that," he goes. "But it also sucks all of the oxygen out of the air!"
Mike Cole 30:22
Wow.
Jerrin Padre 30:22
What?! I mean...
Kristal Mooney 30:23
Right? So I think what he was saying is I could probably come across as a little bit too preachy, too judgy. You know, it's how do you figure out how to influence and win individuals over? And if you're coming on too strong, it could have this, you know, adverse reaction. And so I feel like I've had to, you know, just be aware and regulate what that looks like. And really listen.
Mike Cole 30:52
So be a campfire versus forest fire?
Kristal Mooney 30:56
*laughing*
Mike Cole 30:56
You know, maybe. I mean, you think about it a campfire, right?
Kristal Mooney 30:59
I love that! That's exactly right.
Mike Cole 31:00
You know, a campfire. People gather around, they get warm, they sing songs. Forest fire—it's a fire. It's bright. But yeah, it scorches the earth too. So, yeah.
Kristal Mooney 31:10
Exactly!
Jerrin Padre 31:12
What comes to mind for me—because I feel like something that I've heard a lot is the concept of tone policing, and how I feel like I want to come to your defense in that scenario, since you were technically the instructor. So you were the one leading the session. And the whole point of leading a D&I workshop, or training, is to spark those conversations...
Kristal Mooney 31:34
Yeah.
Jerrin Padre 31:35
... that may put people in a place that's more uncomfortable, but the point is that we all sit there and hold space, so that we can come out of it and hopefully, learn/see/understand a different perspective. So how do you navigate those two truths? Because on one hand, like, I think it's always important to take feedback, and always code-switch and adjust yourself to your target audience, right? But then, on the other hand, you also hear the negative side of that.
Kristal Mooney 32:01
Yeah.
Jerrin Padre 32:02
Yeah. So I'm just wondering—it's tough to navigate, but, like, how do you hold those two truths?
Kristal Mooney 32:07
I think, for me, it really is about—it's about listening. It's about checking myself. And, you know, I had a situation not too long ago, where someone was asking me because they couldn't understand how to connect the dots. And it was around diversity, it was more around women in the workforce, and not being able to understand women in the workforce and promotions. How does that correlate with, like, flexibility in remote work? And I remember, Jerrin, in that moment feeling such rage around—like, how do you not know this? Like, how can you not connect these dots? And I guess I can come across as fairly judgmental in that moment. And there are a lot of thoughts racing through my head, and I wanted to just, you know, almost scold.
Jerrin Padre 32:58
Right, right.
Kristal Mooney 32:58
Yeah, I'm like, "Let me just use this moment, this very important moment, as a moment to just educate and have the discussion." You know, one of the things that we say, or I say a lot—and I think it actually comes from, like, Brené Brown, so I can't say that I coined it—but it was, you know, "I'm not trying to be right, I'm trying to get it right." And I consider myself a learning expert. And I'm not a D&I expert, but that is where the constant research, the constant education, and surrounding myself with individuals that have this knowledge. And I hope that they would create a place for me to be safe and ask those questions. So I, in turn, have to pay that forward and do the same, as frustrating as it may get. *laughing*
Mike Cole 33:46
So we're talking about four letters, right? We're talking about DEIB. And I'm not trying to put words in your mouth, and I'm just speculating here just from experience. I feel companies really are in-tune, or really trying to be in-tune with D&I, right? So Diversity and Inclusion. Where do you think that the Equity and Belonging kind of fits in on the spectrum? Do you feel that is a little bit overlooked when you focus so much on just Diversity and Inclusion? Where does Equity and Belonging come in, you know, specifically to your position, or, you know, in relation to other companies?
Kristal Mooney 34:25
I feel like the language, honestly, since the murder of George Floyd—and there's been such a focus on on race—I feel like there's been this wave of education. Typically when you think about D&I, it's very—I don't want to say surface-level—but it's very, kind, of this "corporate" education. Some of it can be a tad fluffy at times. And I think last summer, when we had the civil unrest—and let's be clear, like, we've had this for as long as I can remember. You know, George Floyd was a tragic incident. And there's been so many incidents before him, but I feel like it was this wave of a different type of education, where people really wanted to understand the difference between, you know, equity and equality. And we've actually been really using Equity more so within our organization. I mean, it's been more about providing equitable experiences versus just, you know, equality. And I think the Belonging is—I think I've been using the term "belonging," I think those kind of terms are getting more and more embedded into our lingo, because you can invite someone to the table, but you've got to let them speak. The education that I've seen over the last year, I feel, has sparked more curiosity. And it's been more of a movement than I ever thought imaginable. Yeah, I just feel like our education is evolving. And it has to be! It has to be smarter, it has to be more around the history, so that people can understand and connect the dots. And I think that sometimes there has to be a line that's drawn. I like teachers and influencers that are a little bit more provocative; that tell you what you need to hear, versus what you want to hear. And I think it's time that we start having kind of that edge.
Mike Cole 36:29
So you mentioned education. What are some recommendations you might have for books to read, organizations to be a part of? And then to lead into that you also mentioned some influencers—or do you have any influencers that you particularly gravitate toward in this space? So book, recommendations, communities, and then favorite speakers or influencers?
Kristal Mooney 36:53
Books. So I would say my number one book right now is called Black Magic by Chad Sanders. So Chad Sanders, he's a writer, he started in tech. I think he's a writer of TV series, movies. He's done a ton. But his book is phenomenal, and it's his story of coming out of Morehouse College and entering Silicon Valley. It's real. It's provocative, and I think people need a dose of reality, and what's really happening.
Speakers and influencers. Yeah. You know, I find myself being a political junkie. So I, you know, I love Tiffany Cross. She's a political analyst and author. I also have to give a shout out to—and I don't know if you're going to have her you should definitely try—but I have to give a shout out to Amber Carbal. Knowing she's a former Walmart associate, and knowing her from a distance, and following her career has been an absolute inspiration. And to see her continued success, I think she's real. I think she speaks truth to power. I think she tells people, again, what they need to hear, versus, maybe, what they want to hear. And I feel like she courageously confronts, and calls out injustices. Another individual that I had started following—I discovered her during COVID—her name is Reverend Jes Kast. And she was such a light in what was such a dark time. She's actually a lead pastor out of Pennsylvania, and she's gay. And her stories of growing up, and how she, you know, confronted and is in the ministry, and her views just on life, gives me such hope. And so those are a few that I follow.
Mike Cole 38:48
Well, Kristal, I want to thank you for the time that you spent with us, just taking time out of what I know is a very busy schedule. And taking time to just chat with us about the work that you're doing, and your take on a lot of things that are going on in the world today. It's been refreshing, and, you know, not speaking for Jerrin, but I know we have both thoroughly enjoyed it. I know our listeners are going to get a lot out of it. All of those resources that you mentioned, we can certainly provide those, as well, in our show notes. But it has been a joy having you on the show today. Kristal,
Kristal Mooney 39:20
Thank you so much! And, Mike, I am so glad that you're doing this work. It's your passion. So it makes me happy to see you in this space. And, Jerrin, it was an absolute pleasure. Thank you so much for having me. I really appreciate it. And I enjoyed it! As many technical difficulties as I had, I so enjoyed spending the time with you.
Jerrin Padre 39:38
Us too!
Mike Cole 39:40
Yeah, we're glad we got that ironed out. And thank you again. And, to our listeners, thank you for tuning in today! And until next time, this has been Peoplecast!
Jerrin Padre 39:50
Bye!
Kristal Mooney 39:51
Bye!
Mike Cole 40:02
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