{"version":"1.0.0","segments":[{"speaker":"Hannah Clark","startTime":0.96,"endTime":1.65,"body":"All right, guys."},{"speaker":"Hannah Clark","startTime":1.65,"endTime":3.84,"body":"Episode disclaimer—if"},{"speaker":"Hannah Clark","startTime":1.65,"endTime":3.84,"body":"you're already an expert"},{"speaker":"Hannah Clark","startTime":3.84,"endTime":6.18,"body":"Vibe coder, this episode"},{"speaker":"Hannah Clark","startTime":3.84,"endTime":6.18,"body":"might not be for you."},{"speaker":"Hannah Clark","startTime":6.24,"endTime":8.88,"body":"But if you've heard of Vibe"},{"speaker":"Hannah Clark","startTime":6.24,"endTime":8.88,"body":"Coding and you wanna know"},{"speaker":"Hannah Clark","startTime":8.88,"endTime":11.64,"body":"the facts versus the myths,"},{"speaker":"Hannah Clark","startTime":8.88,"endTime":11.64,"body":"and you're curious about how"},{"speaker":"Hannah Clark","startTime":11.64,"endTime":14.01,"body":"you can use the technology to"},{"speaker":"Hannah Clark","startTime":11.64,"endTime":14.01,"body":"advance your own objectives,"},{"speaker":"Hannah Clark","startTime":14.28,"endTime":15.81,"body":"you are gonna love this."},{"speaker":"Hannah Clark","startTime":16.26,"endTime":18.3,"body":"If you haven't been following"},{"speaker":"Hannah Clark","startTime":16.26,"endTime":18.3,"body":"our newsletters, as in the"},{"speaker":"Hannah Clark","startTime":18.3,"endTime":21.27,"body":"ones you can subscribe to at"},{"speaker":"Hannah Clark","startTime":18.3,"endTime":21.27,"body":"theproductmanager.com/subscribe,"},{"speaker":"Hannah Clark","startTime":21.81,"endTime":24.45,"body":"I haven't been able to shut"},{"speaker":"Hannah Clark","startTime":21.81,"endTime":24.45,"body":"up about the awesome hands-on"},{"speaker":"Hannah Clark","startTime":24.45,"endTime":26.73,"body":"Vibe Coding Workshop we held"},{"speaker":"Hannah Clark","startTime":24.45,"endTime":26.73,"body":"a few weeks back, Moves The"},{"speaker":"Hannah Clark","startTime":26.73,"endTime":28.15,"body":"Needle Principal, Drew Falkman."},{"speaker":"Hannah Clark","startTime":28.65,"endTime":30.36,"body":"This episode of the"},{"speaker":"Hannah Clark","startTime":28.65,"endTime":30.36,"body":"Product Manager Podcast"},{"speaker":"Hannah Clark","startTime":30.36,"endTime":32.88,"body":"is actually a recording of"},{"speaker":"Hannah Clark","startTime":30.36,"endTime":32.88,"body":"the 30-minute seminar we"},{"speaker":"Hannah Clark","startTime":32.88,"endTime":35.58,"body":"did before jumping into our"},{"speaker":"Hannah Clark","startTime":32.88,"endTime":35.58,"body":"live prototyping session."},{"speaker":"Hannah Clark","startTime":35.97,"endTime":38.79,"body":"You'll hear a breakdown of"},{"speaker":"Hannah Clark","startTime":35.97,"endTime":38.79,"body":"what vibe coding is and isn't,"},{"speaker":"Hannah Clark","startTime":39.06,"endTime":41.82,"body":"inspiring use cases for the"},{"speaker":"Hannah Clark","startTime":39.06,"endTime":41.82,"body":"tech, and tool recommendations"},{"speaker":"Hannah Clark","startTime":41.82,"endTime":44.46,"body":"to start playing and discovering"},{"speaker":"Hannah Clark","startTime":41.82,"endTime":44.46,"body":"use cases of your own."},{"speaker":"Hannah Clark","startTime":44.64,"endTime":45.33,"body":"Let's jump in."},{"speaker":"Hannah Clark","startTime":46.17,"endTime":48.0,"body":"Oh, by the way, we"},{"speaker":"Hannah Clark","startTime":46.17,"endTime":48.0,"body":"hold conversations"},{"speaker":"Hannah Clark","startTime":48.0,"endTime":48.99,"body":"like this every week."},{"speaker":"Hannah Clark","startTime":48.99,"endTime":51.78,"body":"So if this sounds interesting"},{"speaker":"Hannah Clark","startTime":48.99,"endTime":51.78,"body":"to you, why not subscribe?"},{"speaker":"Hannah Clark","startTime":51.99,"endTime":53.07,"body":"Okay, now let's jump in."},{"speaker":"Hannah Clark","startTime":56.265,"endTime":57.045,"body":"I'm Hannah Clark."},{"speaker":"Hannah Clark","startTime":57.045,"endTime":58.755,"body":"If you don't know me, I'm"},{"speaker":"Hannah Clark","startTime":57.045,"endTime":58.755,"body":"the Executive Editor for The"},{"speaker":"Hannah Clark","startTime":58.755,"endTime":61.035,"body":"Product Manager and the host"},{"speaker":"Hannah Clark","startTime":58.755,"endTime":61.035,"body":"of The Product Manager podcast."},{"speaker":"Hannah Clark","startTime":61.275,"endTime":63.135,"body":"And I've got my co-host, Katie."},{"speaker":"Katie Sanders","startTime":63.525,"endTime":64.935,"body":"Hi everybody,"},{"speaker":"Katie Sanders","startTime":63.525,"endTime":64.935,"body":"I'm Katie Sanders."},{"speaker":"Katie Sanders","startTime":64.935,"endTime":67.035,"body":"I'm Executive Editor"},{"speaker":"Katie Sanders","startTime":64.935,"endTime":67.035,"body":"at The CTO Club."},{"speaker":"Katie Sanders","startTime":67.425,"endTime":69.105,"body":"Maybe also from The QA Lead."},{"speaker":"Katie Sanders","startTime":69.195,"endTime":71.794,"body":"There's some people that"},{"speaker":"Katie Sanders","startTime":69.195,"endTime":71.794,"body":"we merged those sites."},{"speaker":"Katie Sanders","startTime":72.154,"endTime":73.024,"body":"So I'm excited."},{"speaker":"Katie Sanders","startTime":73.024,"endTime":75.395,"body":"This is my first workshop"},{"speaker":"Katie Sanders","startTime":73.024,"endTime":75.395,"body":"and really excited to be"},{"speaker":"Katie Sanders","startTime":75.395,"endTime":78.514,"body":"doing this with Hannah,"},{"speaker":"Katie Sanders","startTime":75.395,"endTime":78.514,"body":"'cause there's a lot of blend"},{"speaker":"Katie Sanders","startTime":78.514,"endTime":80.104,"body":"between product and CTOs."},{"speaker":"Katie Sanders","startTime":80.164,"endTime":82.475,"body":"So yeah, I'm excited to"},{"speaker":"Katie Sanders","startTime":80.164,"endTime":82.475,"body":"get to know everybody."},{"speaker":"Katie Sanders","startTime":82.744,"endTime":83.164,"body":"Welcome!"},{"speaker":"Hannah Clark","startTime":83.705,"endTime":84.755,"body":"I'm very"},{"speaker":"Hannah Clark","startTime":83.705,"endTime":84.755,"body":"excited to be working"},{"speaker":"Hannah Clark","startTime":84.755,"endTime":85.475,"body":"with Katie on this."},{"speaker":"Hannah Clark","startTime":85.535,"endTime":87.155,"body":"If you don't follow her"},{"speaker":"Hannah Clark","startTime":85.535,"endTime":87.155,"body":"on LinkedIn yet, Katie"},{"speaker":"Hannah Clark","startTime":87.155,"endTime":88.684,"body":"Sanders, she's such a badass."},{"speaker":"Hannah Clark","startTime":88.714,"endTime":91.774,"body":"She's got great content, so I"},{"speaker":"Hannah Clark","startTime":88.714,"endTime":91.774,"body":"really am excited for you guys"},{"speaker":"Hannah Clark","startTime":91.774,"endTime":92.199,"body":"to get to know each other."},{"speaker":"Hannah Clark","startTime":93.154,"endTime":94.865,"body":"I'd love to introduce our"},{"speaker":"Hannah Clark","startTime":93.154,"endTime":94.865,"body":"featured speaker as well."},{"speaker":"Hannah Clark","startTime":94.865,"endTime":96.154,"body":"We've got Drew Falkman here."},{"speaker":"Hannah Clark","startTime":96.455,"endTime":99.544,"body":"Drew is a product leader,"},{"speaker":"Hannah Clark","startTime":96.455,"endTime":99.544,"body":"an advisor, an educator"},{"speaker":"Hannah Clark","startTime":99.755,"endTime":101.884,"body":"focused on pre-seed to"},{"speaker":"Hannah Clark","startTime":99.755,"endTime":101.884,"body":"seed product strategy."},{"speaker":"Hannah Clark","startTime":101.884,"endTime":103.234,"body":"He's streamlined early teams."},{"speaker":"Hannah Clark","startTime":103.234,"endTime":105.035,"body":"He's optimized for"},{"speaker":"Hannah Clark","startTime":103.234,"endTime":105.035,"body":"product to market fit."},{"speaker":"Hannah Clark","startTime":105.274,"endTime":105.994,"body":"He's done it all."},{"speaker":"Hannah Clark","startTime":105.994,"endTime":107.554,"body":"He's a great friend"},{"speaker":"Hannah Clark","startTime":105.994,"endTime":107.554,"body":"of the publication."},{"speaker":"Hannah Clark","startTime":107.554,"endTime":108.24,"body":"He's worked with us tons."},{"speaker":"Hannah Clark","startTime":108.32,"endTime":111.074,"body":"And he's worked with me a"},{"speaker":"Hannah Clark","startTime":108.32,"endTime":111.074,"body":"lot, which tells you that"},{"speaker":"Hannah Clark","startTime":111.074,"endTime":112.214,"body":"he's a very patient man."},{"speaker":"Hannah Clark","startTime":112.214,"endTime":113.804,"body":"So you guys are in"},{"speaker":"Hannah Clark","startTime":112.214,"endTime":113.804,"body":"good hands today."},{"speaker":"Hannah Clark","startTime":114.044,"endTime":115.814,"body":"And he also experiences"},{"speaker":"Hannah Clark","startTime":114.044,"endTime":115.814,"body":"he's got a lot of"},{"speaker":"Hannah Clark","startTime":115.814,"endTime":118.544,"body":"experience in web, mobile,"},{"speaker":"Hannah Clark","startTime":115.814,"endTime":118.544,"body":"blockchain, and AI products."},{"speaker":"Hannah Clark","startTime":118.544,"endTime":120.494,"body":"So we have an"},{"speaker":"Hannah Clark","startTime":118.544,"endTime":120.494,"body":"amazing expert here."},{"speaker":"Hannah Clark","startTime":120.494,"endTime":122.954,"body":"Drew, do you want to say"},{"speaker":"Hannah Clark","startTime":120.494,"endTime":122.954,"body":"hello to the nice people?"},{"speaker":"Drew Falkman","startTime":123.255,"endTime":125.085,"body":"Hey everyone,"},{"speaker":"Drew Falkman","startTime":123.255,"endTime":125.085,"body":"super excited to be here."},{"speaker":"Drew Falkman","startTime":125.354,"endTime":126.164,"body":"This is gonna be fun."},{"speaker":"Hannah Clark","startTime":126.524,"endTime":128.924,"body":"So we're gonna"},{"speaker":"Hannah Clark","startTime":126.524,"endTime":128.924,"body":"start by some myth busting"},{"speaker":"Hannah Clark","startTime":129.704,"endTime":131.415,"body":"and I'll kick us off with the"},{"speaker":"Hannah Clark","startTime":129.704,"endTime":131.415,"body":"first question and then my"},{"speaker":"Hannah Clark","startTime":131.415,"endTime":133.934,"body":"lovely co-host, Katie, we'll"},{"speaker":"Hannah Clark","startTime":131.415,"endTime":133.934,"body":"go through some myths and"},{"speaker":"Hannah Clark","startTime":133.994,"endTime":135.644,"body":"have Drew debunk them for us."},{"speaker":"Hannah Clark","startTime":136.01,"endTime":138.23,"body":"So we'll start by"},{"speaker":"Hannah Clark","startTime":136.01,"endTime":138.23,"body":"setting some context."},{"speaker":"Hannah Clark","startTime":138.379,"endTime":140.779,"body":"Seems like everybody is talking"},{"speaker":"Hannah Clark","startTime":138.379,"endTime":140.779,"body":"about vibe coding and it comes"},{"speaker":"Hannah Clark","startTime":140.779,"endTime":143.549,"body":"up in every LinkedIn post right"},{"speaker":"Hannah Clark","startTime":140.779,"endTime":143.549,"body":"now, including a lot of my own."},{"speaker":"Hannah Clark","startTime":143.909,"endTime":146.309,"body":"And people either seem to be"},{"speaker":"Hannah Clark","startTime":143.909,"endTime":146.309,"body":"very excited by it or very"},{"speaker":"Hannah Clark","startTime":146.309,"endTime":147.809,"body":"scared or very confused."},{"speaker":"Hannah Clark","startTime":148.139,"endTime":151.259,"body":"So let's talk about why"},{"speaker":"Hannah Clark","startTime":148.139,"endTime":151.259,"body":"Vibe coding is so popular."},{"speaker":"Hannah Clark","startTime":151.259,"endTime":152.549,"body":"Why is it so"},{"speaker":"Hannah Clark","startTime":151.259,"endTime":152.549,"body":"important right now?"},{"speaker":"Hannah Clark","startTime":152.549,"endTime":153.779,"body":"Let's get into the"},{"speaker":"Hannah Clark","startTime":152.549,"endTime":153.779,"body":"myth around that."},{"speaker":"Katie Sanders","startTime":154.289,"endTime":156.149,"body":"All right,"},{"speaker":"Katie Sanders","startTime":154.289,"endTime":156.149,"body":"so first myth, vibe, coding"},{"speaker":"Katie Sanders","startTime":156.149,"endTime":157.349,"body":"is replacing engineers."},{"speaker":"Katie Sanders","startTime":157.349,"endTime":159.819,"body":"Obviously there's a lot"},{"speaker":"Katie Sanders","startTime":157.349,"endTime":159.819,"body":"of, in general, AI is"},{"speaker":"Katie Sanders","startTime":159.819,"endTime":160.959,"body":"replacing everyone's job."},{"speaker":"Katie Sanders","startTime":161.289,"endTime":162.219,"body":"That's what it's saying."},{"speaker":"Katie Sanders","startTime":162.669,"endTime":165.385,"body":"I would say that that's a"},{"speaker":"Katie Sanders","startTime":162.669,"endTime":165.385,"body":"myth and that maybe it's"},{"speaker":"Katie Sanders","startTime":165.385,"endTime":168.475,"body":"changing the engineer's job"},{"speaker":"Katie Sanders","startTime":165.385,"endTime":168.475,"body":"and it is creating app ready"},{"speaker":"Katie Sanders","startTime":168.475,"endTime":170.695,"body":"code, but it's certainly"},{"speaker":"Katie Sanders","startTime":168.475,"endTime":170.695,"body":"not completely replacing"},{"speaker":"Katie Sanders","startTime":170.695,"endTime":171.834,"body":"the job of an engineer."},{"speaker":"Katie Sanders","startTime":172.075,"endTime":174.684,"body":"As always, with ai, we wanna"},{"speaker":"Katie Sanders","startTime":172.075,"endTime":174.684,"body":"keep a human in the loop,"},{"speaker":"Katie Sanders","startTime":175.045,"endTime":178.165,"body":"and so I would say nothing's"},{"speaker":"Katie Sanders","startTime":175.045,"endTime":178.165,"body":"gonna get shipped without"},{"speaker":"Katie Sanders","startTime":178.434,"endTime":181.795,"body":"human eyeballs, and so I"},{"speaker":"Katie Sanders","startTime":178.434,"endTime":181.795,"body":"think we can bust that myth."},{"speaker":"Hannah Clark","startTime":182.274,"endTime":183.564,"body":"Drew, did you"},{"speaker":"Hannah Clark","startTime":182.274,"endTime":183.564,"body":"have anything to add to that?"},{"speaker":"Drew Falkman","startTime":183.954,"endTime":186.174,"body":"Yeah, I would"},{"speaker":"Drew Falkman","startTime":183.954,"endTime":186.174,"body":"say it's something to be"},{"speaker":"Drew Falkman","startTime":186.174,"endTime":190.464,"body":"aware of and be cognitive"},{"speaker":"Drew Falkman","startTime":186.174,"endTime":190.464,"body":"of as an engineer that's"},{"speaker":"Drew Falkman","startTime":190.464,"endTime":191.364,"body":"coming down the pike."},{"speaker":"Drew Falkman","startTime":191.769,"endTime":193.629,"body":"Just could speed"},{"speaker":"Drew Falkman","startTime":191.769,"endTime":193.629,"body":"up your process."},{"speaker":"Drew Falkman","startTime":193.989,"endTime":196.839,"body":"And as a designer and product"},{"speaker":"Drew Falkman","startTime":193.989,"endTime":196.839,"body":"manager and non-technical"},{"speaker":"Drew Falkman","startTime":196.839,"endTime":200.769,"body":"founder, you guys now have"},{"speaker":"Drew Falkman","startTime":196.839,"endTime":200.769,"body":"the ability to create MVPs and"},{"speaker":"Drew Falkman","startTime":200.769,"endTime":203.949,"body":"create and validate prototypes"},{"speaker":"Drew Falkman","startTime":200.769,"endTime":203.949,"body":"and do things, and then hand"},{"speaker":"Drew Falkman","startTime":203.949,"endTime":205.149,"body":"it off to the engineers."},{"speaker":"Drew Falkman","startTime":205.149,"endTime":207.489,"body":"When you wanna get into"},{"speaker":"Drew Falkman","startTime":205.149,"endTime":207.489,"body":"production level code,"},{"speaker":"Drew Falkman","startTime":207.909,"endTime":210.67,"body":"generally speaking, pass an MVP."},{"speaker":"Drew Falkman","startTime":211.119,"endTime":214.749,"body":"In this day and age, certainly"},{"speaker":"Drew Falkman","startTime":211.119,"endTime":214.749,"body":"you need to be doing code"},{"speaker":"Drew Falkman","startTime":214.749,"endTime":217.659,"body":"reviews and going over and"},{"speaker":"Drew Falkman","startTime":214.749,"endTime":217.659,"body":"making sure that everything"},{"speaker":"Drew Falkman","startTime":217.659,"endTime":218.95,"body":"is tightened up, especially."},{"speaker":"Drew Falkman","startTime":219.039,"endTime":221.289,"body":"If there's any sort of"},{"speaker":"Drew Falkman","startTime":219.039,"endTime":221.289,"body":"compliance issues or anything"},{"speaker":"Drew Falkman","startTime":221.289,"endTime":222.189,"body":"you need to be aware of."},{"speaker":"Hannah Clark","startTime":222.559,"endTime":223.879,"body":"We'll move"},{"speaker":"Hannah Clark","startTime":222.559,"endTime":223.879,"body":"on to myth number two."},{"speaker":"Hannah Clark","startTime":224.269,"endTime":227.659,"body":"So some people say the"},{"speaker":"Hannah Clark","startTime":224.269,"endTime":227.659,"body":"vibe coding is a world"},{"speaker":"Hannah Clark","startTime":227.659,"endTime":228.769,"body":"outside of the dev cycle."},{"speaker":"Hannah Clark","startTime":228.769,"endTime":230.569,"body":"So in other words, if you"},{"speaker":"Hannah Clark","startTime":228.769,"endTime":230.569,"body":"build something in a vibe"},{"speaker":"Hannah Clark","startTime":230.569,"endTime":233.419,"body":"coding app, that you still"},{"speaker":"Hannah Clark","startTime":230.569,"endTime":233.419,"body":"like that it's not really"},{"speaker":"Hannah Clark","startTime":233.419,"endTime":235.789,"body":"usable and that you have to"},{"speaker":"Hannah Clark","startTime":233.419,"endTime":235.789,"body":"rebuild it completely from"},{"speaker":"Hannah Clark","startTime":235.789,"endTime":238.999,"body":"the ground up with a developer"},{"speaker":"Hannah Clark","startTime":235.789,"endTime":238.999,"body":"who's hard coding whole thing."},{"speaker":"Hannah Clark","startTime":239.269,"endTime":240.559,"body":"Drew, is this really the case?"},{"speaker":"Drew Falkman","startTime":240.979,"endTime":243.649,"body":"The tools have"},{"speaker":"Drew Falkman","startTime":240.979,"endTime":243.649,"body":"evolved so much and it's one"},{"speaker":"Drew Falkman","startTime":243.649,"endTime":247.039,"body":"of those things where it's"},{"speaker":"Drew Falkman","startTime":243.649,"endTime":247.039,"body":"literally changing every day."},{"speaker":"Drew Falkman","startTime":247.444,"endTime":250.564,"body":"Claude just released a new"},{"speaker":"Drew Falkman","startTime":247.444,"endTime":250.564,"body":"sort of iteration of their"},{"speaker":"Drew Falkman","startTime":250.564,"endTime":255.094,"body":"code generation within the last"},{"speaker":"Drew Falkman","startTime":250.564,"endTime":255.094,"body":"month or so, and it's miles"},{"speaker":"Drew Falkman","startTime":255.094,"endTime":256.414,"body":"better than it was before."},{"speaker":"Drew Falkman","startTime":256.414,"endTime":258.274,"body":"So it's continually improving."},{"speaker":"Drew Falkman","startTime":258.604,"endTime":261.664,"body":"It does just like all"},{"speaker":"Drew Falkman","startTime":258.604,"endTime":261.664,"body":"generative AI stuff."},{"speaker":"Drew Falkman","startTime":261.904,"endTime":264.664,"body":"It can hallucinate,"},{"speaker":"Drew Falkman","startTime":261.904,"endTime":264.664,"body":"it can do goofy stuff."},{"speaker":"Drew Falkman","startTime":264.694,"endTime":266.974,"body":"It can do things"},{"speaker":"Drew Falkman","startTime":264.694,"endTime":266.974,"body":"that are unexpected."},{"speaker":"Drew Falkman","startTime":267.484,"endTime":271.704,"body":"So as part of the cycle"},{"speaker":"Drew Falkman","startTime":267.484,"endTime":271.704,"body":"it can work into the cycle"},{"speaker":"Drew Falkman","startTime":271.704,"endTime":274.674,"body":"and you can actually create"},{"speaker":"Drew Falkman","startTime":271.704,"endTime":274.674,"body":"these sort of code pieces."},{"speaker":"Drew Falkman","startTime":274.989,"endTime":278.559,"body":"Hand them off to engineers,"},{"speaker":"Drew Falkman","startTime":274.989,"endTime":278.559,"body":"but you really need to be"},{"speaker":"Drew Falkman","startTime":279.13,"endTime":282.13,"body":"conscious that they're going to"},{"speaker":"Drew Falkman","startTime":279.13,"endTime":282.13,"body":"probably need some reworking."},{"speaker":"Drew Falkman","startTime":282.19,"endTime":284.859,"body":"You might need to reuse"},{"speaker":"Drew Falkman","startTime":282.19,"endTime":284.859,"body":"some components, and I think"},{"speaker":"Drew Falkman","startTime":284.859,"endTime":288.07,"body":"some engineers might be"},{"speaker":"Drew Falkman","startTime":284.859,"endTime":288.07,"body":"somewhat surprised at how"},{"speaker":"Drew Falkman","startTime":288.07,"endTime":289.51,"body":"good the code actually is."},{"speaker":"Hannah Clark","startTime":289.929,"endTime":290.169,"body":"Okay."},{"speaker":"Hannah Clark","startTime":290.169,"endTime":292.45,"body":"Another myth that I've heard"},{"speaker":"Hannah Clark","startTime":290.169,"endTime":292.45,"body":"a lot is that you don't need"},{"speaker":"Hannah Clark","startTime":292.57,"endTime":295.359,"body":"a PRD or a product strategy"},{"speaker":"Hannah Clark","startTime":292.57,"endTime":295.359,"body":"in order to vibe code a tool."},{"speaker":"Hannah Clark","startTime":295.749,"endTime":297.459,"body":"Drew, Katie, thoughts on that?"},{"speaker":"Drew Falkman","startTime":297.879,"endTime":299.859,"body":"Look, you"},{"speaker":"Drew Falkman","startTime":297.879,"endTime":299.859,"body":"always need to think."},{"speaker":"Drew Falkman","startTime":299.859,"endTime":302.439,"body":"I think what happens is"},{"speaker":"Drew Falkman","startTime":299.859,"endTime":302.439,"body":"sometimes people think"},{"speaker":"Drew Falkman","startTime":302.489,"endTime":305.309,"body":"if I'm vibe coding, I can"},{"speaker":"Drew Falkman","startTime":302.489,"endTime":305.309,"body":"just jump in, open it up"},{"speaker":"Drew Falkman","startTime":305.309,"endTime":306.479,"body":"and have an app tomorrow."},{"speaker":"Drew Falkman","startTime":306.719,"endTime":308.82,"body":"And just like anything"},{"speaker":"Drew Falkman","startTime":306.719,"endTime":308.82,"body":"else, if you don't put any"},{"speaker":"Drew Falkman","startTime":308.82,"endTime":311.969,"body":"forethought into it, it's not"},{"speaker":"Drew Falkman","startTime":308.82,"endTime":311.969,"body":"going to be what you want."},{"speaker":"Drew Falkman","startTime":312.03,"endTime":315.09,"body":"You wanna think about"},{"speaker":"Drew Falkman","startTime":312.03,"endTime":315.09,"body":"who your audience is, who"},{"speaker":"Drew Falkman","startTime":315.09,"endTime":316.08,"body":"your target market is."},{"speaker":"Drew Falkman","startTime":316.08,"endTime":318.33,"body":"You want to think about what"},{"speaker":"Drew Falkman","startTime":316.08,"endTime":318.33,"body":"your value proposition is."},{"speaker":"Drew Falkman","startTime":318.33,"endTime":321.659,"body":"You want to think about what"},{"speaker":"Drew Falkman","startTime":318.33,"endTime":321.659,"body":"the core features and flows"},{"speaker":"Drew Falkman","startTime":321.659,"endTime":323.039,"body":"in the app are going to be."},{"speaker":"Drew Falkman","startTime":323.594,"endTime":326.444,"body":"And so it's really"},{"speaker":"Drew Falkman","startTime":323.594,"endTime":326.444,"body":"worth your time to."},{"speaker":"Drew Falkman","startTime":326.849,"endTime":328.169,"body":"Put together something."},{"speaker":"Drew Falkman","startTime":328.229,"endTime":330.81,"body":"Now, the beauty of it is"},{"speaker":"Drew Falkman","startTime":328.229,"endTime":330.81,"body":"you don't have to create"},{"speaker":"Drew Falkman","startTime":330.81,"endTime":335.07,"body":"a five to 10 page PRD that"},{"speaker":"Drew Falkman","startTime":330.81,"endTime":335.07,"body":"defines the tech that's gonna"},{"speaker":"Drew Falkman","startTime":335.07,"endTime":338.219,"body":"be used, and that diagrams"},{"speaker":"Drew Falkman","startTime":335.07,"endTime":338.219,"body":"all the flows and all that."},{"speaker":"Drew Falkman","startTime":338.219,"endTime":339.39,"body":"You don't have to"},{"speaker":"Drew Falkman","startTime":338.219,"endTime":339.39,"body":"think about that."},{"speaker":"Drew Falkman","startTime":339.659,"endTime":342.419,"body":"You just wanna outline what your"},{"speaker":"Drew Falkman","startTime":339.659,"endTime":342.419,"body":"vision is, what it is you're"},{"speaker":"Drew Falkman","startTime":342.419,"endTime":344.55,"body":"building, and in fact, I've"},{"speaker":"Drew Falkman","startTime":342.419,"endTime":344.55,"body":"come up with a little vibe,"},{"speaker":"Drew Falkman","startTime":344.55,"endTime":347.55,"body":"PRD, and that's like one to"},{"speaker":"Drew Falkman","startTime":344.55,"endTime":347.55,"body":"two pages, and it's just for"},{"speaker":"Drew Falkman","startTime":347.55,"endTime":350.58,"body":"you and anyone else who you"},{"speaker":"Drew Falkman","startTime":347.55,"endTime":350.58,"body":"might be collaborating with so"},{"speaker":"Drew Falkman","startTime":350.58,"endTime":353.34,"body":"that you're on the same page"},{"speaker":"Drew Falkman","startTime":350.58,"endTime":353.34,"body":"and that you can come at it"},{"speaker":"Drew Falkman","startTime":353.34,"endTime":354.99,"body":"with an organized approach."},{"speaker":"Drew Falkman","startTime":355.349,"endTime":358.56,"body":"And that your code is"},{"speaker":"Drew Falkman","startTime":355.349,"endTime":358.56,"body":"cleaner in the long run."},{"speaker":"Hannah Clark","startTime":358.96,"endTime":359.53,"body":"Good to know."},{"speaker":"Hannah Clark","startTime":359.859,"endTime":363.189,"body":"We'll move on to the next"},{"speaker":"Hannah Clark","startTime":359.859,"endTime":363.189,"body":"myth here about highly"},{"speaker":"Hannah Clark","startTime":363.189,"endTime":364.239,"body":"regulated industries."},{"speaker":"Hannah Clark","startTime":364.45,"endTime":367.15,"body":"Now, Katie represents the"},{"speaker":"Hannah Clark","startTime":364.45,"endTime":367.15,"body":"CTO Club, so did you wanna"},{"speaker":"Hannah Clark","startTime":367.15,"endTime":368.349,"body":"take the myth on Katie?"},{"speaker":"Katie Sanders","startTime":368.739,"endTime":370.059,"body":"Yeah, I"},{"speaker":"Katie Sanders","startTime":368.739,"endTime":370.059,"body":"think one other one I"},{"speaker":"Katie Sanders","startTime":370.059,"endTime":370.9,"body":"wanted to touch on is."},{"speaker":"Katie Sanders","startTime":371.875,"endTime":373.645,"body":"That this is new and"},{"speaker":"Katie Sanders","startTime":371.875,"endTime":373.645,"body":"tell you like we've been"},{"speaker":"Katie Sanders","startTime":373.645,"endTime":374.755,"body":"vibe coding for years."},{"speaker":"Katie Sanders","startTime":374.755,"endTime":377.674,"body":"We didn't call it that until"},{"speaker":"Katie Sanders","startTime":374.755,"endTime":377.674,"body":"recently, but, copy pasting"},{"speaker":"Katie Sanders","startTime":377.674,"endTime":381.874,"body":"from GitHub or Reddit or Hacker"},{"speaker":"Katie Sanders","startTime":377.674,"endTime":381.874,"body":"News, wherever, like great"},{"speaker":"Katie Sanders","startTime":381.874,"endTime":383.914,"body":"engineers, they solve problems."},{"speaker":"Katie Sanders","startTime":383.914,"endTime":386.434,"body":"They search and pattern"},{"speaker":"Katie Sanders","startTime":383.914,"endTime":386.434,"body":"match and adapt and build."},{"speaker":"Katie Sanders","startTime":386.704,"endTime":388.985,"body":"So I think this prompt is"},{"speaker":"Katie Sanders","startTime":386.704,"endTime":388.985,"body":"just the next evolution of"},{"speaker":"Katie Sanders","startTime":388.99,"endTime":389.914,"body":"what's always been there."},{"speaker":"Katie Sanders","startTime":390.304,"endTime":393.169,"body":"And then, Hannah, what was the"},{"speaker":"Katie Sanders","startTime":390.304,"endTime":393.169,"body":"other one you wanted to bust?"},{"speaker":"Hannah Clark","startTime":393.499,"endTime":394.339,"body":"Just that"},{"speaker":"Hannah Clark","startTime":393.499,"endTime":394.339,"body":"if you're in a highly"},{"speaker":"Hannah Clark","startTime":394.339,"endTime":396.109,"body":"regulated industry that"},{"speaker":"Hannah Clark","startTime":394.339,"endTime":396.109,"body":"you can't vibe code."},{"speaker":"Hannah Clark","startTime":396.769,"endTime":397.539,"body":"Oh it's not secure."},{"speaker":"Katie Sanders","startTime":397.869,"endTime":398.199,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Katie Sanders","startTime":398.199,"endTime":400.989,"body":"Like obviously when we think"},{"speaker":"Katie Sanders","startTime":398.199,"endTime":400.989,"body":"about like healthcare or"},{"speaker":"Katie Sanders","startTime":400.989,"endTime":403.539,"body":"finance, those are highly"},{"speaker":"Katie Sanders","startTime":400.989,"endTime":403.539,"body":"regulated industries."},{"speaker":"Katie Sanders","startTime":403.539,"endTime":405.929,"body":"So it's just with any other"},{"speaker":"Katie Sanders","startTime":403.539,"endTime":405.929,"body":"industry you wanna make sure"},{"speaker":"Katie Sanders","startTime":405.929,"endTime":408.45,"body":"that you're HIPAA compliant"},{"speaker":"Katie Sanders","startTime":405.929,"endTime":408.45,"body":"and all of those things."},{"speaker":"Katie Sanders","startTime":408.45,"endTime":411.299,"body":"I know that LLMs"},{"speaker":"Katie Sanders","startTime":408.45,"endTime":411.299,"body":"can sometimes pull."},{"speaker":"Katie Sanders","startTime":411.78,"endTime":412.109,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Katie Sanders","startTime":412.169,"endTime":414.15,"body":"So just consider"},{"speaker":"Katie Sanders","startTime":412.169,"endTime":414.15,"body":"compliance issues."},{"speaker":"Katie Sanders","startTime":414.524,"endTime":415.364,"body":"Really in the industry."},{"speaker":"Katie Sanders","startTime":415.364,"endTime":417.224,"body":"But I think that there's"},{"speaker":"Katie Sanders","startTime":415.364,"endTime":417.224,"body":"a little bit of an extra"},{"speaker":"Katie Sanders","startTime":417.494,"endTime":420.254,"body":"guardrail when you're thinking"},{"speaker":"Katie Sanders","startTime":417.494,"endTime":420.254,"body":"about healthcare or finance"},{"speaker":"Katie Sanders","startTime":420.254,"endTime":421.004,"body":"or something like that."},{"speaker":"Hannah Clark","startTime":421.754,"endTime":423.485,"body":"Yeah, I think it's"},{"speaker":"Hannah Clark","startTime":421.754,"endTime":423.485,"body":"kinda like a lot of different"},{"speaker":"Hannah Clark","startTime":423.485,"endTime":426.245,"body":"development processes where you"},{"speaker":"Hannah Clark","startTime":423.485,"endTime":426.245,"body":"still, the vibe coding tools"},{"speaker":"Hannah Clark","startTime":426.245,"endTime":428.224,"body":"don't replace your personnel."},{"speaker":"Hannah Clark","startTime":428.255,"endTime":430.415,"body":"They're just like a"},{"speaker":"Hannah Clark","startTime":428.255,"endTime":430.415,"body":"compliment to accelerate"},{"speaker":"Hannah Clark","startTime":430.415,"endTime":431.495,"body":"the development cycle."},{"speaker":"Hannah Clark","startTime":431.495,"endTime":434.555,"body":"But yeah, like a good rigorous"},{"speaker":"Hannah Clark","startTime":431.495,"endTime":434.555,"body":"code review process, it's"},{"speaker":"Hannah Clark","startTime":434.765,"endTime":436.325,"body":"probably more essential"},{"speaker":"Hannah Clark","startTime":434.765,"endTime":436.325,"body":"than ever now that we're"},{"speaker":"Hannah Clark","startTime":436.325,"endTime":437.405,"body":"outsourcing some of that work."},{"speaker":"Hannah Clark","startTime":437.975,"endTime":438.335,"body":"All right."},{"speaker":"Hannah Clark","startTime":438.335,"endTime":439.895,"body":"Let's talk a little bit"},{"speaker":"Hannah Clark","startTime":438.335,"endTime":439.895,"body":"about some use cases."},{"speaker":"Hannah Clark","startTime":439.895,"endTime":442.205,"body":"It'll be fun to explore"},{"speaker":"Hannah Clark","startTime":439.895,"endTime":442.205,"body":"a few different ways that"},{"speaker":"Hannah Clark","startTime":442.205,"endTime":445.685,"body":"people are using vibe coding"},{"speaker":"Hannah Clark","startTime":442.205,"endTime":445.685,"body":"effectively right now."},{"speaker":"Hannah Clark","startTime":446.015,"endTime":448.755,"body":"Katie will run this section"},{"speaker":"Hannah Clark","startTime":446.015,"endTime":448.755,"body":"of the show here and go"},{"speaker":"Hannah Clark","startTime":448.755,"endTime":451.185,"body":"through some of the use"},{"speaker":"Hannah Clark","startTime":448.755,"endTime":451.185,"body":"cases that were pretty cool."},{"speaker":"Katie Sanders","startTime":451.515,"endTime":453.705,"body":"I actually,"},{"speaker":"Katie Sanders","startTime":451.515,"endTime":453.705,"body":"a lot of these I pulled"},{"speaker":"Katie Sanders","startTime":453.705,"endTime":456.885,"body":"from Reddit when Vibe Coding"},{"speaker":"Katie Sanders","startTime":453.705,"endTime":456.885,"body":"first started happening."},{"speaker":"Katie Sanders","startTime":457.065,"endTime":459.765,"body":"Like I wanted to see real"},{"speaker":"Katie Sanders","startTime":457.065,"endTime":459.765,"body":"world examples of this."},{"speaker":"Katie Sanders","startTime":460.125,"endTime":462.375,"body":"Everybody was talking about it,"},{"speaker":"Katie Sanders","startTime":460.125,"endTime":462.375,"body":"but I wasn't really able to see"},{"speaker":"Katie Sanders","startTime":462.375,"endTime":463.695,"body":"anything that was successful."},{"speaker":"Katie Sanders","startTime":464.055,"endTime":467.175,"body":"So I did an article about this"},{"speaker":"Katie Sanders","startTime":464.055,"endTime":467.175,"body":"and one of the things we talked"},{"speaker":"Katie Sanders","startTime":467.175,"endTime":472.485,"body":"about was this person who built,"},{"speaker":"Katie Sanders","startTime":467.175,"endTime":472.485,"body":"I think it was like a soccer,"},{"speaker":"Katie Sanders","startTime":472.545,"endTime":475.784,"body":"it was like a niche soccer"},{"speaker":"Katie Sanders","startTime":472.545,"endTime":475.784,"body":"game organizer, just like his,"},{"speaker":"Katie Sanders","startTime":475.995,"endTime":477.765,"body":"a personal in interest hobby."},{"speaker":"Katie Sanders","startTime":477.765,"endTime":480.045,"body":"He was not a developer, but"},{"speaker":"Katie Sanders","startTime":477.765,"endTime":480.045,"body":"he understood how full Stack"},{"speaker":"Katie Sanders","startTime":480.045,"endTime":483.346,"body":"apps worked, and he's always"},{"speaker":"Katie Sanders","startTime":480.045,"endTime":483.346,"body":"had to hire developers to"},{"speaker":"Katie Sanders","startTime":483.351,"endTime":484.575,"body":"bring his ideas to life."},{"speaker":"Katie Sanders","startTime":484.695,"endTime":487.605,"body":"But as he started playing"},{"speaker":"Katie Sanders","startTime":484.695,"endTime":487.605,"body":"around with lovable and cursor"},{"speaker":"Katie Sanders","startTime":487.605,"endTime":488.594,"body":"and all these other things."},{"speaker":"Katie Sanders","startTime":489.0,"endTime":492.18,"body":"He built this niche soccer"},{"speaker":"Katie Sanders","startTime":489.0,"endTime":492.18,"body":"game app and it was just help"},{"speaker":"Katie Sanders","startTime":492.18,"endTime":496.62,"body":"his to organize his weekly"},{"speaker":"Katie Sanders","startTime":492.18,"endTime":496.62,"body":"games and he ended up shipping"},{"speaker":"Katie Sanders","startTime":496.62,"endTime":499.71,"body":"this and I think successfully."},{"speaker":"Katie Sanders","startTime":499.71,"endTime":503.039,"body":"Yeah, shipped a hundred line"},{"speaker":"Katie Sanders","startTime":499.71,"endTime":503.039,"body":"AI generated app profitably."},{"speaker":"Katie Sanders","startTime":503.039,"endTime":505.409,"body":"Within weeks, I think"},{"speaker":"Katie Sanders","startTime":503.039,"endTime":505.409,"body":"was bringing in something"},{"speaker":"Katie Sanders","startTime":505.409,"endTime":506.4,"body":"like, was it Michael?"},{"speaker":"Katie Sanders","startTime":506.4,"endTime":508.8,"body":"Was it like $700 a week"},{"speaker":"Katie Sanders","startTime":506.4,"endTime":508.8,"body":"or something like that."},{"speaker":"Katie Sanders","startTime":509.25,"endTime":512.88,"body":"Another example we found was"},{"speaker":"Katie Sanders","startTime":509.25,"endTime":512.88,"body":"this one called Work aid,"},{"speaker":"Katie Sanders","startTime":512.88,"endTime":516.78,"body":"which would, it's a gamified"},{"speaker":"Katie Sanders","startTime":512.88,"endTime":516.78,"body":"task management powered by ai."},{"speaker":"Katie Sanders","startTime":517.125,"endTime":521.325,"body":"So like revolutionizing"},{"speaker":"Katie Sanders","startTime":517.125,"endTime":521.325,"body":"your to-do list with apps to"},{"speaker":"Katie Sanders","startTime":521.325,"endTime":522.585,"body":"make work feel like a game."},{"speaker":"Katie Sanders","startTime":522.885,"endTime":525.255,"body":"So those were like a couple"},{"speaker":"Katie Sanders","startTime":522.885,"endTime":525.255,"body":"of successful examples"},{"speaker":"Katie Sanders","startTime":525.705,"endTime":528.405,"body":"that I pulled from Reddit"},{"speaker":"Katie Sanders","startTime":525.705,"endTime":528.405,"body":"and we can link you guys"},{"speaker":"Katie Sanders","startTime":528.405,"endTime":529.245,"body":"to that Reddit post."},{"speaker":"Katie Sanders","startTime":529.245,"endTime":532.159,"body":"There were a few more examples"},{"speaker":"Katie Sanders","startTime":529.245,"endTime":532.159,"body":"of that and I think, a lot"},{"speaker":"Katie Sanders","startTime":532.159,"endTime":534.019,"body":"of people are just gonna play"},{"speaker":"Katie Sanders","startTime":532.159,"endTime":534.019,"body":"around with this, but there are"},{"speaker":"Katie Sanders","startTime":534.019,"endTime":536.149,"body":"some people who are gonna be"},{"speaker":"Katie Sanders","startTime":534.019,"endTime":536.149,"body":"really successful with this,"},{"speaker":"Katie Sanders","startTime":536.449,"endTime":537.349,"body":"which is really cool to see."},{"speaker":"Hannah Clark","startTime":537.379,"endTime":538.969,"body":"Yeah that's"},{"speaker":"Hannah Clark","startTime":537.379,"endTime":538.969,"body":"a very cool example."},{"speaker":"Hannah Clark","startTime":539.524,"endTime":541.534,"body":"I didn't wanna just interject"},{"speaker":"Hannah Clark","startTime":539.524,"endTime":541.534,"body":"quickly 'cause we have a very"},{"speaker":"Hannah Clark","startTime":541.534,"endTime":542.674,"body":"good question from Katya."},{"speaker":"Hannah Clark","startTime":543.004,"endTime":545.404,"body":"Katya says, I was wondering,"},{"speaker":"Hannah Clark","startTime":543.004,"endTime":545.404,"body":"as a PM would I even have to"},{"speaker":"Hannah Clark","startTime":545.404,"endTime":547.924,"body":"still create wire frames and"},{"speaker":"Hannah Clark","startTime":545.404,"endTime":547.924,"body":"mockups for the front end?"},{"speaker":"Hannah Clark","startTime":548.614,"endTime":551.134,"body":"I could just create it with vibe"},{"speaker":"Hannah Clark","startTime":548.614,"endTime":551.134,"body":"coding and then the devs can"},{"speaker":"Hannah Clark","startTime":551.134,"endTime":553.894,"body":"use my front end as a starting"},{"speaker":"Hannah Clark","startTime":551.134,"endTime":553.894,"body":"point for their own development."},{"speaker":"Drew Falkman","startTime":554.374,"endTime":555.964,"body":"Yes, 100%."},{"speaker":"Drew Falkman","startTime":555.964,"endTime":559.894,"body":"In fact, I would say that"},{"speaker":"Drew Falkman","startTime":555.964,"endTime":559.894,"body":"it would be more difficult"},{"speaker":"Drew Falkman","startTime":559.894,"endTime":562.714,"body":"with Vibe coding with most"},{"speaker":"Drew Falkman","startTime":559.894,"endTime":562.714,"body":"of these tools to try and"},{"speaker":"Drew Falkman","startTime":562.714,"endTime":564.184,"body":"implement an existing design."},{"speaker":"Drew Falkman","startTime":564.784,"endTime":567.125,"body":"It's hard to import"},{"speaker":"Drew Falkman","startTime":564.784,"endTime":567.125,"body":"screens and do all that."},{"speaker":"Drew Falkman","startTime":567.305,"endTime":570.874,"body":"It's actually easier to define"},{"speaker":"Drew Falkman","startTime":567.305,"endTime":570.874,"body":"it and you can work with the"},{"speaker":"Drew Falkman","startTime":570.874,"endTime":573.894,"body":"generative AI to get the look"},{"speaker":"Drew Falkman","startTime":570.874,"endTime":573.894,"body":"and feel right and all that"},{"speaker":"Drew Falkman","startTime":573.894,"endTime":575.934,"body":"kind of stuff, and then hand"},{"speaker":"Drew Falkman","startTime":573.894,"endTime":575.934,"body":"it off to them and they can"},{"speaker":"Drew Falkman","startTime":575.934,"endTime":578.504,"body":"make sure it's in compliance"},{"speaker":"Drew Falkman","startTime":575.934,"endTime":578.504,"body":"with any design system or"},{"speaker":"Drew Falkman","startTime":578.504,"endTime":579.614,"body":"anything else that you're using."},{"speaker":"Hannah Clark","startTime":580.124,"endTime":581.634,"body":"Thank you"},{"speaker":"Hannah Clark","startTime":580.124,"endTime":581.634,"body":"for for fielding that Drew."},{"speaker":"Hannah Clark","startTime":581.904,"endTime":583.254,"body":"Sorry Katie, to,"},{"speaker":"Hannah Clark","startTime":581.904,"endTime":583.254,"body":"to interject there."},{"speaker":"Hannah Clark","startTime":583.254,"endTime":584.724,"body":"Did you wanna get back"},{"speaker":"Hannah Clark","startTime":583.254,"endTime":584.724,"body":"to some of the use cases?"},{"speaker":"Hannah Clark","startTime":584.724,"endTime":586.614,"body":"I know you got a couple"},{"speaker":"Hannah Clark","startTime":584.724,"endTime":586.614,"body":"more up your sleeve."},{"speaker":"Katie Sanders","startTime":586.974,"endTime":589.224,"body":"Michael, do"},{"speaker":"Katie Sanders","startTime":586.974,"endTime":589.224,"body":"you wanna share that we have"},{"speaker":"Katie Sanders","startTime":589.224,"endTime":593.934,"body":"one like use case from someone"},{"speaker":"Katie Sanders","startTime":589.224,"endTime":593.934,"body":"within our company, they created"},{"speaker":"Katie Sanders","startTime":593.934,"endTime":595.854,"body":"this layoff impact analyzer."},{"speaker":"Katie Sanders","startTime":596.164,"endTime":597.994,"body":"Michael, I dunno if you"},{"speaker":"Katie Sanders","startTime":596.164,"endTime":597.994,"body":"wanted to share that"},{"speaker":"Katie Sanders","startTime":598.474,"endTime":599.614,"body":"as a great example."},{"speaker":"Michael Mordak","startTime":599.884,"endTime":600.304,"body":"Definitely."},{"speaker":"Michael Mordak","startTime":600.304,"endTime":603.744,"body":"So this is a, an awesome"},{"speaker":"Michael Mordak","startTime":600.304,"endTime":603.744,"body":"example that one of our"},{"speaker":"Michael Mordak","startTime":603.744,"endTime":607.524,"body":"colleagues used on their site"},{"speaker":"Michael Mordak","startTime":603.744,"endTime":607.524,"body":"where they are working for an"},{"speaker":"Michael Mordak","startTime":607.524,"endTime":610.854,"body":"HR publication and wanted to"},{"speaker":"Michael Mordak","startTime":607.524,"endTime":610.854,"body":"build a tool that folks could"},{"speaker":"Michael Mordak","startTime":610.854,"endTime":614.244,"body":"use to analyze the impact of a"},{"speaker":"Michael Mordak","startTime":610.854,"endTime":614.244,"body":"layoff if they were planning on."},{"speaker":"Michael Mordak","startTime":614.574,"endTime":617.364,"body":"And the way he's done this is"},{"speaker":"Michael Mordak","startTime":614.574,"endTime":617.364,"body":"he's actually coded it so that,"},{"speaker":"Michael Mordak","startTime":617.364,"endTime":620.604,"body":"or bot coded it so that folks"},{"speaker":"Michael Mordak","startTime":617.364,"endTime":620.604,"body":"who wanna use this have to fill"},{"speaker":"Michael Mordak","startTime":620.604,"endTime":621.924,"body":"out a survey ahead of time."},{"speaker":"Michael Mordak","startTime":622.284,"endTime":624.894,"body":"That way he's collecting data on"},{"speaker":"Michael Mordak","startTime":622.284,"endTime":624.894,"body":"people that are using it, which"},{"speaker":"Michael Mordak","startTime":624.894,"endTime":627.084,"body":"is something that he wanted"},{"speaker":"Michael Mordak","startTime":624.894,"endTime":627.084,"body":"to do for his own purposes."},{"speaker":"Michael Mordak","startTime":627.354,"endTime":630.594,"body":"So once he completed that"},{"speaker":"Michael Mordak","startTime":627.354,"endTime":630.594,"body":"survey, then the app brings"},{"speaker":"Michael Mordak","startTime":630.594,"endTime":631.614,"body":"you into this calculator."},{"speaker":"Michael Mordak","startTime":632.169,"endTime":635.499,"body":"And so there are a few examples"},{"speaker":"Michael Mordak","startTime":632.169,"endTime":635.499,"body":"that he's got built into it."},{"speaker":"Michael Mordak","startTime":635.499,"endTime":637.749,"body":"So if you're, at a manufacturing"},{"speaker":"Michael Mordak","startTime":635.499,"endTime":637.749,"body":"company and you're looking to"},{"speaker":"Michael Mordak","startTime":637.749,"endTime":640.689,"body":"lay off 200 employees, then"},{"speaker":"Michael Mordak","startTime":637.749,"endTime":640.689,"body":"you can select this example"},{"speaker":"Michael Mordak","startTime":640.689,"endTime":641.739,"body":"just to see how it works."},{"speaker":"Michael Mordak","startTime":642.219,"endTime":643.959,"body":"But essentially you put in"},{"speaker":"Michael Mordak","startTime":642.219,"endTime":643.959,"body":"all these different details"},{"speaker":"Michael Mordak","startTime":644.289,"endTime":647.279,"body":"and talk about okay, how much"},{"speaker":"Michael Mordak","startTime":644.289,"endTime":647.279,"body":"knowledge do these people have?"},{"speaker":"Michael Mordak","startTime":647.279,"endTime":650.499,"body":"How much time would it take to"},{"speaker":"Michael Mordak","startTime":647.279,"endTime":650.499,"body":"retrain somebody for this role?"},{"speaker":"Michael Mordak","startTime":650.829,"endTime":653.769,"body":"And then you can calculate"},{"speaker":"Michael Mordak","startTime":650.829,"endTime":653.769,"body":"the impact of that layoff and"},{"speaker":"Michael Mordak","startTime":653.769,"endTime":656.889,"body":"it'll tell you exactly what"},{"speaker":"Michael Mordak","startTime":653.769,"endTime":656.889,"body":"kind of effect this will have."},{"speaker":"Michael Mordak","startTime":657.489,"endTime":659.019,"body":"So this would be a great tool"},{"speaker":"Michael Mordak","startTime":657.489,"endTime":659.019,"body":"for folks who are working"},{"speaker":"Michael Mordak","startTime":659.019,"endTime":662.439,"body":"in HR who are planning a"},{"speaker":"Michael Mordak","startTime":659.019,"endTime":662.439,"body":"layoff and he's just given"},{"speaker":"Michael Mordak","startTime":662.439,"endTime":664.119,"body":"it to, for free, for folks"},{"speaker":"Michael Mordak","startTime":662.439,"endTime":664.119,"body":"who wanna play it around with"},{"speaker":"Michael Mordak","startTime":664.119,"endTime":665.089,"body":"it and give them feedback."},{"speaker":"Michael Mordak","startTime":665.089,"endTime":667.359,"body":"But that's one example"},{"speaker":"Michael Mordak","startTime":665.089,"endTime":667.359,"body":"that we have just from"},{"speaker":"Michael Mordak","startTime":667.359,"endTime":668.049,"body":"someone on our team."},{"speaker":"Michael Mordak","startTime":668.679,"endTime":671.939,"body":"The second example I could"},{"speaker":"Michael Mordak","startTime":668.679,"endTime":671.939,"body":"share, which is the polling"},{"speaker":"Michael Mordak","startTime":672.119,"endTime":675.599,"body":"tool that we were just using,"},{"speaker":"Michael Mordak","startTime":672.119,"endTime":675.599,"body":"I just coded it on myself."},{"speaker":"Michael Mordak","startTime":675.599,"endTime":678.149,"body":"I have no experience coding"},{"speaker":"Michael Mordak","startTime":675.599,"endTime":678.149,"body":"or very limited anyway."},{"speaker":"Michael Mordak","startTime":678.599,"endTime":681.419,"body":"And so I built out this pool"},{"speaker":"Michael Mordak","startTime":678.599,"endTime":681.419,"body":"so that, or this pool's app"},{"speaker":"Michael Mordak","startTime":681.449,"endTime":682.26,"body":"basically, so that we could."},{"speaker":"Michael Mordak","startTime":682.934,"endTime":686.054,"body":"Take voting from the live"},{"speaker":"Michael Mordak","startTime":682.934,"endTime":686.054,"body":"audience and display the"},{"speaker":"Michael Mordak","startTime":686.054,"endTime":688.514,"body":"results instead of having to"},{"speaker":"Michael Mordak","startTime":686.054,"endTime":688.514,"body":"pay for something that did it."},{"speaker":"Michael Mordak","startTime":688.544,"endTime":690.554,"body":"Because it's, a lot of times"},{"speaker":"Michael Mordak","startTime":688.544,"endTime":690.554,"body":"what happens is apps will"},{"speaker":"Michael Mordak","startTime":690.554,"endTime":692.444,"body":"have that as a feature,"},{"speaker":"Michael Mordak","startTime":690.554,"endTime":692.444,"body":"but you gotta pay into it"},{"speaker":"Michael Mordak","startTime":692.444,"endTime":694.394,"body":"and they, you're paying for"},{"speaker":"Michael Mordak","startTime":692.444,"endTime":694.394,"body":"all the other features that"},{"speaker":"Michael Mordak","startTime":694.394,"endTime":695.264,"body":"you're not really using."},{"speaker":"Michael Mordak","startTime":695.714,"endTime":698.354,"body":"I only really care about"},{"speaker":"Michael Mordak","startTime":695.714,"endTime":698.354,"body":"the pool, and so I built"},{"speaker":"Michael Mordak","startTime":698.354,"endTime":700.724,"body":"this all so that I could"},{"speaker":"Michael Mordak","startTime":698.354,"endTime":700.724,"body":"create my own pools."},{"speaker":"Michael Mordak","startTime":700.724,"endTime":702.494,"body":"I can give it whatever"},{"speaker":"Michael Mordak","startTime":700.724,"endTime":702.494,"body":"name I want, add as many"},{"speaker":"Michael Mordak","startTime":702.494,"endTime":703.514,"body":"options as they want."},{"speaker":"Michael Mordak","startTime":703.874,"endTime":706.784,"body":"I can preview it before it"},{"speaker":"Michael Mordak","startTime":703.874,"endTime":706.784,"body":"goes live, and then I can"},{"speaker":"Michael Mordak","startTime":706.784,"endTime":709.454,"body":"either launch them from"},{"speaker":"Michael Mordak","startTime":706.784,"endTime":709.454,"body":"here or turn them off, get"},{"speaker":"Michael Mordak","startTime":709.454,"endTime":710.009,"body":"rid of them, et cetera."},{"speaker":"Michael Mordak","startTime":710.624,"endTime":713.234,"body":"And then this is how"},{"speaker":"Michael Mordak","startTime":710.624,"endTime":713.234,"body":"they're displayed on screen."},{"speaker":"Michael Mordak","startTime":713.234,"endTime":716.024,"body":"So you folks are voting"},{"speaker":"Michael Mordak","startTime":713.234,"endTime":716.024,"body":"on the app that I created."},{"speaker":"Michael Mordak","startTime":716.444,"endTime":717.704,"body":"I'm not collecting"},{"speaker":"Michael Mordak","startTime":716.444,"endTime":717.704,"body":"any data from you."},{"speaker":"Michael Mordak","startTime":717.704,"endTime":718.064,"body":"Don't worry."},{"speaker":"Michael Mordak","startTime":719.174,"endTime":720.104,"body":"It just lives in here."},{"speaker":"Michael Mordak","startTime":720.374,"endTime":722.984,"body":"And yeah, so that's where"},{"speaker":"Michael Mordak","startTime":720.374,"endTime":722.984,"body":"we saw those results there."},{"speaker":"Michael Mordak","startTime":722.984,"endTime":724.874,"body":"And that was something"},{"speaker":"Michael Mordak","startTime":722.984,"endTime":724.874,"body":"that I just threw together."},{"speaker":"Michael Mordak","startTime":724.874,"endTime":727.034,"body":"I was actually working on it"},{"speaker":"Michael Mordak","startTime":724.874,"endTime":727.034,"body":"30 minutes before this call,"},{"speaker":"Michael Mordak","startTime":727.034,"endTime":729.894,"body":"but in total it probably took"},{"speaker":"Michael Mordak","startTime":727.034,"endTime":729.894,"body":"me, one to one to two hours"},{"speaker":"Michael Mordak","startTime":729.894,"endTime":732.324,"body":"just to put this together"},{"speaker":"Michael Mordak","startTime":729.894,"endTime":732.324,"body":"and give it some branding"},{"speaker":"Michael Mordak","startTime":732.324,"endTime":733.664,"body":"that I thought looked nice."},{"speaker":"Michael Mordak","startTime":733.664,"endTime":736.034,"body":"But I'm also not a designer,"},{"speaker":"Michael Mordak","startTime":733.664,"endTime":736.034,"body":"so don't take tips from me."},{"speaker":"Katie Sanders","startTime":736.944,"endTime":738.054,"body":"Yeah, I"},{"speaker":"Katie Sanders","startTime":736.944,"endTime":738.054,"body":"mean we, we've talked"},{"speaker":"Katie Sanders","startTime":738.054,"endTime":739.074,"body":"about the upsides here."},{"speaker":"Katie Sanders","startTime":739.074,"endTime":741.164,"body":"Of course, there's some people"},{"speaker":"Katie Sanders","startTime":739.074,"endTime":741.164,"body":"who are playing around in"},{"speaker":"Katie Sanders","startTime":741.164,"endTime":744.914,"body":"this and thinking that they"},{"speaker":"Katie Sanders","startTime":741.164,"endTime":744.914,"body":"are just never gonna need"},{"speaker":"Katie Sanders","startTime":745.064,"endTime":746.714,"body":"anybody technical ever again."},{"speaker":"Katie Sanders","startTime":747.074,"endTime":751.814,"body":"But there's this one example"},{"speaker":"Katie Sanders","startTime":747.074,"endTime":751.814,"body":"of this guy, Leo Junior."},{"speaker":"Katie Sanders","startTime":752.204,"endTime":755.234,"body":"His post went viral on X, but"},{"speaker":"Katie Sanders","startTime":752.204,"endTime":755.234,"body":"he's the founder of Enrich"},{"speaker":"Katie Sanders","startTime":755.264,"endTime":758.204,"body":"Lead, which is a tool that"},{"speaker":"Katie Sanders","startTime":755.264,"endTime":758.204,"body":"collects IP addresses and uses"},{"speaker":"Katie Sanders","startTime":758.204,"endTime":759.644,"body":"an LLM to generate sales leads."},{"speaker":"Katie Sanders","startTime":760.334,"endTime":764.114,"body":"So he built the entire app"},{"speaker":"Katie Sanders","startTime":760.334,"endTime":764.114,"body":"using Cursor and he said very"},{"speaker":"Katie Sanders","startTime":764.114,"endTime":768.804,"body":"proudly, like zero handwritten"},{"speaker":"Katie Sanders","startTime":764.114,"endTime":768.804,"body":"code AI is, the builder."},{"speaker":"Katie Sanders","startTime":769.194,"endTime":771.324,"body":"You can whine about it"},{"speaker":"Katie Sanders","startTime":769.194,"endTime":771.324,"body":"or you can start building"},{"speaker":"Katie Sanders","startTime":771.324,"endTime":774.324,"body":"just like a lot of"},{"speaker":"Katie Sanders","startTime":771.324,"endTime":774.324,"body":"bravado and no humbleness."},{"speaker":"Katie Sanders","startTime":774.324,"endTime":777.774,"body":"And so of course the internet"},{"speaker":"Katie Sanders","startTime":774.324,"endTime":777.774,"body":"chose violence and within 48"},{"speaker":"Katie Sanders","startTime":777.774,"endTime":781.674,"body":"hours, the hackers took over and"},{"speaker":"Katie Sanders","startTime":777.774,"endTime":781.674,"body":"his subscriptions were bypassed"},{"speaker":"Katie Sanders","startTime":781.704,"endTime":783.744,"body":"and his cost skyrocketed."},{"speaker":"Katie Sanders","startTime":784.164,"endTime":786.024,"body":"And the LLM started"},{"speaker":"Katie Sanders","startTime":784.164,"endTime":786.024,"body":"hallucinating lead"},{"speaker":"Katie Sanders","startTime":786.024,"endTime":787.164,"body":"data out of thin air."},{"speaker":"Katie Sanders","startTime":787.614,"endTime":790.614,"body":"So Leo had to post like"},{"speaker":"Katie Sanders","startTime":787.614,"endTime":790.614,"body":"an SOS to Twitter and say,"},{"speaker":"Katie Sanders","startTime":790.614,"endTime":791.664,"body":"Hey, I'm under attack."},{"speaker":"Katie Sanders","startTime":791.664,"endTime":792.984,"body":"Random things are happening."},{"speaker":"Katie Sanders","startTime":793.344,"endTime":795.414,"body":"I'm not technical, so"},{"speaker":"Katie Sanders","startTime":793.344,"endTime":795.414,"body":"this is taking me longer"},{"speaker":"Katie Sanders","startTime":795.414,"endTime":796.884,"body":"than usual to figure out."},{"speaker":"Katie Sanders","startTime":797.394,"endTime":800.544,"body":"And so now he's learning"},{"speaker":"Katie Sanders","startTime":797.394,"endTime":800.544,"body":"how to code the hard way."},{"speaker":"Katie Sanders","startTime":801.024,"endTime":804.184,"body":"So of course, again, just the"},{"speaker":"Katie Sanders","startTime":801.024,"endTime":804.184,"body":"lesson that you always need"},{"speaker":"Katie Sanders","startTime":804.214,"endTime":807.964,"body":"a human in the loop and it's"},{"speaker":"Katie Sanders","startTime":804.214,"endTime":807.964,"body":"fun to play around with as"},{"speaker":"Katie Sanders","startTime":807.964,"endTime":810.934,"body":"a non-technical person, but"},{"speaker":"Katie Sanders","startTime":807.964,"endTime":810.934,"body":"you always need a technical"},{"speaker":"Katie Sanders","startTime":810.934,"endTime":813.064,"body":"person reviewing the code."},{"speaker":"Hannah Clark","startTime":813.634,"endTime":815.374,"body":"Actually, Michael,"},{"speaker":"Hannah Clark","startTime":813.634,"endTime":815.374,"body":"did you wanna give people like"},{"speaker":"Hannah Clark","startTime":815.374,"endTime":818.104,"body":"a quick rundown of what that"},{"speaker":"Hannah Clark","startTime":815.374,"endTime":818.104,"body":"learning curve was like for"},{"speaker":"Hannah Clark","startTime":818.104,"endTime":820.924,"body":"you when you very first started"},{"speaker":"Hannah Clark","startTime":818.104,"endTime":820.924,"body":"playing around with the tools?"},{"speaker":"Michael Mordak","startTime":821.404,"endTime":821.734,"body":"Sure."},{"speaker":"Michael Mordak","startTime":821.734,"endTime":824.554,"body":"I, like I said, I have very"},{"speaker":"Michael Mordak","startTime":821.734,"endTime":824.554,"body":"limited know, like coding"},{"speaker":"Michael Mordak","startTime":824.554,"endTime":828.214,"body":"knowledge, and so this is"},{"speaker":"Michael Mordak","startTime":824.554,"endTime":828.214,"body":"something that I feel like,"},{"speaker":"Michael Mordak","startTime":828.214,"endTime":829.894,"body":"I see this sometimes where"},{"speaker":"Michael Mordak","startTime":828.214,"endTime":829.894,"body":"people will say something"},{"speaker":"Michael Mordak","startTime":829.894,"endTime":831.754,"body":"like, oh, I'm an ideas person."},{"speaker":"Michael Mordak","startTime":832.144,"endTime":833.734,"body":"I've never actually built"},{"speaker":"Michael Mordak","startTime":832.144,"endTime":833.734,"body":"that something before and"},{"speaker":"Michael Mordak","startTime":833.734,"endTime":836.104,"body":"that's a hundred percent"},{"speaker":"Michael Mordak","startTime":833.734,"endTime":836.104,"body":"the camp that I fall into"},{"speaker":"Michael Mordak","startTime":836.524,"endTime":839.254,"body":"because I'm often thinking"},{"speaker":"Michael Mordak","startTime":836.524,"endTime":839.254,"body":"about, different ways that."},{"speaker":"Michael Mordak","startTime":839.659,"endTime":842.429,"body":"I could try to cut down on"},{"speaker":"Michael Mordak","startTime":839.659,"endTime":842.429,"body":"internal process or do things"},{"speaker":"Michael Mordak","startTime":842.429,"endTime":845.279,"body":"without having to like, pay for"},{"speaker":"Michael Mordak","startTime":842.429,"endTime":845.279,"body":"third party apps, but actually"},{"speaker":"Michael Mordak","startTime":845.279,"endTime":846.299,"body":"building it out is difficult."},{"speaker":"Michael Mordak","startTime":846.299,"endTime":849.689,"body":"So in response to Grand there,"},{"speaker":"Michael Mordak","startTime":846.299,"endTime":849.689,"body":"he was asking what the learning"},{"speaker":"Michael Mordak","startTime":849.689,"endTime":851.939,"body":"curve is like in practice"},{"speaker":"Michael Mordak","startTime":849.689,"endTime":851.939,"body":"and the tool that we're"},{"speaker":"Michael Mordak","startTime":851.939,"endTime":853.169,"body":"gonna be using today lovable."},{"speaker":"Michael Mordak","startTime":853.529,"endTime":855.299,"body":"And it's gonna be similar"},{"speaker":"Michael Mordak","startTime":853.529,"endTime":855.299,"body":"across the other apps that"},{"speaker":"Michael Mordak","startTime":855.299,"endTime":856.169,"body":"are out there as well."},{"speaker":"Michael Mordak","startTime":856.469,"endTime":859.829,"body":"It's honestly the learning"},{"speaker":"Michael Mordak","startTime":856.469,"endTime":859.829,"body":"curve is really gradual."},{"speaker":"Michael Mordak","startTime":859.829,"endTime":862.51,"body":"It was really low because"},{"speaker":"Michael Mordak","startTime":859.829,"endTime":862.51,"body":"there's, there like you see"},{"speaker":"Michael Mordak","startTime":862.52,"endTime":864.14,"body":"it's just text prompting."},{"speaker":"Michael Mordak","startTime":864.17,"endTime":866.975,"body":"So you out outline exactly"},{"speaker":"Michael Mordak","startTime":864.17,"endTime":866.975,"body":"what it is that you'd like"},{"speaker":"Michael Mordak","startTime":866.975,"endTime":869.465,"body":"to see, like the things that"},{"speaker":"Michael Mordak","startTime":866.975,"endTime":869.465,"body":"your goal for building the"},{"speaker":"Michael Mordak","startTime":869.465,"endTime":871.475,"body":"app would, what the kind"},{"speaker":"Michael Mordak","startTime":869.465,"endTime":871.475,"body":"of outcomes you wanna see."},{"speaker":"Michael Mordak","startTime":871.985,"endTime":875.525,"body":"And then it'll spit out"},{"speaker":"Michael Mordak","startTime":871.985,"endTime":875.525,"body":"some examples of what"},{"speaker":"Michael Mordak","startTime":875.525,"endTime":876.275,"body":"it might build for you."},{"speaker":"Michael Mordak","startTime":876.605,"endTime":879.005,"body":"But you can also provide"},{"speaker":"Michael Mordak","startTime":876.605,"endTime":879.005,"body":"additional details as well."},{"speaker":"Michael Mordak","startTime":879.005,"endTime":881.375,"body":"So if you've got something that"},{"speaker":"Michael Mordak","startTime":879.005,"endTime":881.375,"body":"you're basing it off of, like"},{"speaker":"Michael Mordak","startTime":881.375,"endTime":883.745,"body":"for example, for this one, I"},{"speaker":"Michael Mordak","startTime":881.375,"endTime":883.745,"body":"said I want to, I wanted to"},{"speaker":"Michael Mordak","startTime":883.775,"endTime":886.205,"body":"look something like slido.com,"},{"speaker":"Michael Mordak","startTime":883.775,"endTime":886.205,"body":"which if you're familiar"},{"speaker":"Michael Mordak","startTime":886.205,"endTime":887.705,"body":"with Slido, is a polling app."},{"speaker":"Michael Mordak","startTime":888.095,"endTime":891.035,"body":"And so it can use examples"},{"speaker":"Michael Mordak","startTime":888.095,"endTime":891.035,"body":"from the real world to base"},{"speaker":"Michael Mordak","startTime":891.035,"endTime":893.555,"body":"those off of, and then you"},{"speaker":"Michael Mordak","startTime":891.035,"endTime":893.555,"body":"can input your own branding."},{"speaker":"Michael Mordak","startTime":894.125,"endTime":897.215,"body":"Any other requirements"},{"speaker":"Michael Mordak","startTime":894.125,"endTime":897.215,"body":"that you need the app to do"},{"speaker":"Michael Mordak","startTime":897.574,"endTime":898.295,"body":"when you're putting it in?"},{"speaker":"Michael Mordak","startTime":898.865,"endTime":902.015,"body":"Once it's built out, the"},{"speaker":"Michael Mordak","startTime":898.865,"endTime":902.015,"body":"initial iteration, it's also"},{"speaker":"Michael Mordak","startTime":902.015,"endTime":902.735,"body":"that's not the end of it."},{"speaker":"Michael Mordak","startTime":902.765,"endTime":903.875,"body":"You can keep chatting with it."},{"speaker":"Michael Mordak","startTime":904.055,"endTime":906.275,"body":"There's a chat mode so you"},{"speaker":"Michael Mordak","startTime":904.055,"endTime":906.275,"body":"can ask it questions before"},{"speaker":"Michael Mordak","startTime":906.275,"endTime":908.525,"body":"it actually changes the"},{"speaker":"Michael Mordak","startTime":906.275,"endTime":908.525,"body":"code or builds anything."},{"speaker":"Michael Mordak","startTime":908.525,"endTime":911.314,"body":"In addition to that, what"},{"speaker":"Michael Mordak","startTime":908.525,"endTime":911.314,"body":"I found worked for me too"},{"speaker":"Michael Mordak","startTime":911.314,"endTime":913.805,"body":"is when things got a little"},{"speaker":"Michael Mordak","startTime":911.314,"endTime":913.805,"body":"bit beyond my knowledge,"},{"speaker":"Michael Mordak","startTime":914.314,"endTime":916.504,"body":"I actually went to, I took"},{"speaker":"Michael Mordak","startTime":914.314,"endTime":916.504,"body":"some of the things that."},{"speaker":"Michael Mordak","startTime":917.03,"endTime":919.939,"body":"Lovable would tell me that"},{"speaker":"Michael Mordak","startTime":917.03,"endTime":919.939,"body":"I was doing, and I'd take"},{"speaker":"Michael Mordak","startTime":919.939,"endTime":922.339,"body":"that, I'd copy the chat"},{"speaker":"Michael Mordak","startTime":919.939,"endTime":922.339,"body":"GBT and I'd say, explain"},{"speaker":"Michael Mordak","startTime":922.339,"endTime":923.24,"body":"this to me like, I'm five."},{"speaker":"Michael Mordak","startTime":924.14,"endTime":926.17,"body":"And so it would dumb it down"},{"speaker":"Michael Mordak","startTime":924.14,"endTime":926.17,"body":"for somebody like me who"},{"speaker":"Michael Mordak","startTime":926.17,"endTime":928.959,"body":"doesn't understand all the"},{"speaker":"Michael Mordak","startTime":926.17,"endTime":928.959,"body":"technicalities and explained"},{"speaker":"Michael Mordak","startTime":928.959,"endTime":929.739,"body":"it really thoroughly."},{"speaker":"Michael Mordak","startTime":929.739,"endTime":932.975,"body":"So yeah, it was really"},{"speaker":"Michael Mordak","startTime":929.739,"endTime":932.975,"body":"smooth process and I made"},{"speaker":"Michael Mordak","startTime":932.975,"endTime":934.655,"body":"it really easy to try"},{"speaker":"Michael Mordak","startTime":932.975,"endTime":934.655,"body":"building something like this."},{"speaker":"Hannah Clark","startTime":935.345,"endTime":936.365,"body":"That is so cool."},{"speaker":"Hannah Clark","startTime":936.365,"endTime":937.805,"body":"And I hope that's very"},{"speaker":"Hannah Clark","startTime":936.365,"endTime":937.805,"body":"encouraging for those"},{"speaker":"Hannah Clark","startTime":938.225,"endTime":940.085,"body":"of us, including myself,"},{"speaker":"Hannah Clark","startTime":938.225,"endTime":940.085,"body":"who are starting like"},{"speaker":"Hannah Clark","startTime":940.205,"endTime":940.83,"body":"really from scratch."},{"speaker":"Hannah Clark","startTime":941.72,"endTime":944.09,"body":"I did want to bring up a"},{"speaker":"Hannah Clark","startTime":941.72,"endTime":944.09,"body":"question here from Tal."},{"speaker":"Hannah Clark","startTime":944.39,"endTime":945.59,"body":"We're gonna pitch"},{"speaker":"Hannah Clark","startTime":944.39,"endTime":945.59,"body":"this one to Drew."},{"speaker":"Hannah Clark","startTime":945.83,"endTime":948.83,"body":"So Tal asks, what would you"},{"speaker":"Hannah Clark","startTime":945.83,"endTime":948.83,"body":"suggest is a good workflow for"},{"speaker":"Hannah Clark","startTime":948.83,"endTime":950.09,"body":"existing product companies?"},{"speaker":"Hannah Clark","startTime":950.09,"endTime":951.53,"body":"I'm a PM working at a startup."},{"speaker":"Hannah Clark","startTime":951.53,"endTime":953.78,"body":"We have a design system and"},{"speaker":"Hannah Clark","startTime":951.53,"endTime":953.78,"body":"a working product with users."},{"speaker":"Hannah Clark","startTime":954.08,"endTime":955.43,"body":"Why do you think I can"},{"speaker":"Hannah Clark","startTime":954.08,"endTime":955.43,"body":"use Vibe coding for"},{"speaker":"Hannah Clark","startTime":955.43,"endTime":956.75,"body":"specific features or ideas?"},{"speaker":"Hannah Clark","startTime":956.81,"endTime":958.97,"body":"And when would it go back to"},{"speaker":"Hannah Clark","startTime":956.81,"endTime":958.97,"body":"design or will it skip the"},{"speaker":"Hannah Clark","startTime":958.97,"endTime":960.17,"body":"design and go straight to Dev?"},{"speaker":"Drew Falkman","startTime":960.98,"endTime":965.01,"body":"So I think"},{"speaker":"Drew Falkman","startTime":960.98,"endTime":965.01,"body":"this whole workflow is 100%"},{"speaker":"Drew Falkman","startTime":965.069,"endTime":966.36,"body":"work in progress right now."},{"speaker":"Drew Falkman","startTime":966.66,"endTime":968.61,"body":"There are no best practices yet."},{"speaker":"Drew Falkman","startTime":968.64,"endTime":972.03,"body":"It's still the wild west"},{"speaker":"Drew Falkman","startTime":968.64,"endTime":972.03,"body":"in terms of putting all"},{"speaker":"Drew Falkman","startTime":972.03,"endTime":973.02,"body":"this stuff together."},{"speaker":"Drew Falkman","startTime":973.619,"endTime":976.77,"body":"But the way I would do it"},{"speaker":"Drew Falkman","startTime":973.619,"endTime":976.77,"body":"if I were at a company is I"},{"speaker":"Drew Falkman","startTime":976.77,"endTime":980.009,"body":"would skip design, but I would"},{"speaker":"Drew Falkman","startTime":976.77,"endTime":980.009,"body":"coordinate with the designer."},{"speaker":"Drew Falkman","startTime":980.04,"endTime":982.319,"body":"So I would do and I'll show"},{"speaker":"Drew Falkman","startTime":980.04,"endTime":982.319,"body":"you my vibe, PRD, I would"},{"speaker":"Drew Falkman","startTime":982.38,"endTime":984.719,"body":"put something together"},{"speaker":"Drew Falkman","startTime":982.38,"endTime":984.719,"body":"that sort of talks about"},{"speaker":"Drew Falkman","startTime":984.719,"endTime":985.829,"body":"the screens and elements."},{"speaker":"Drew Falkman","startTime":985.829,"endTime":988.519,"body":"Now, make sure to get"},{"speaker":"Drew Falkman","startTime":985.829,"endTime":988.519,"body":"buy-in from the designers."},{"speaker":"Drew Falkman","startTime":989.179,"endTime":991.369,"body":"They can even be"},{"speaker":"Drew Falkman","startTime":989.179,"endTime":991.369,"body":"collaborators on this too."},{"speaker":"Drew Falkman","startTime":991.369,"endTime":994.279,"body":"So remember, this isn't"},{"speaker":"Drew Falkman","startTime":991.369,"endTime":994.279,"body":"something we need to do in silo."},{"speaker":"Drew Falkman","startTime":994.279,"endTime":996.379,"body":"We can all be looking"},{"speaker":"Drew Falkman","startTime":994.279,"endTime":996.379,"body":"at the same project and"},{"speaker":"Drew Falkman","startTime":996.379,"endTime":998.029,"body":"working on it together."},{"speaker":"Drew Falkman","startTime":998.509,"endTime":1000.579,"body":"And then what I would"},{"speaker":"Drew Falkman","startTime":998.509,"endTime":1000.579,"body":"do is I would create it."},{"speaker":"Drew Falkman","startTime":1001.059,"endTime":1004.029,"body":"There's no like magical"},{"speaker":"Drew Falkman","startTime":1001.059,"endTime":1004.029,"body":"way that I've heard of,"},{"speaker":"Drew Falkman","startTime":1004.119,"endTime":1006.969,"body":"at least with lovable to"},{"speaker":"Drew Falkman","startTime":1004.119,"endTime":1006.969,"body":"integrate design systems."},{"speaker":"Drew Falkman","startTime":1007.269,"endTime":1010.539,"body":"Some of the other tools like"},{"speaker":"Drew Falkman","startTime":1007.269,"endTime":1010.539,"body":"Cursor is actually a lower"},{"speaker":"Drew Falkman","startTime":1010.539,"endTime":1014.829,"body":"level tool for this because"},{"speaker":"Drew Falkman","startTime":1010.539,"endTime":1014.829,"body":"you can plug in the chats"},{"speaker":"Drew Falkman","startTime":1014.829,"endTime":1016.584,"body":"and everything, but you're"},{"speaker":"Drew Falkman","startTime":1014.829,"endTime":1016.584,"body":"really working in the code."},{"speaker":"Drew Falkman","startTime":1017.244,"endTime":1019.794,"body":"In like an integrated"},{"speaker":"Drew Falkman","startTime":1017.244,"endTime":1019.794,"body":"development environment,"},{"speaker":"Drew Falkman","startTime":1020.124,"endTime":1022.374,"body":"and it often requires like"},{"speaker":"Drew Falkman","startTime":1020.124,"endTime":1022.374,"body":"running command line thing."},{"speaker":"Drew Falkman","startTime":1022.374,"endTime":1025.165,"body":"So it's a little more technical"},{"speaker":"Drew Falkman","startTime":1022.374,"endTime":1025.165,"body":"for totally non-technical"},{"speaker":"Drew Falkman","startTime":1025.165,"endTime":1028.314,"body":"people, but it does allow"},{"speaker":"Drew Falkman","startTime":1025.165,"endTime":1028.314,"body":"you for a little more code"},{"speaker":"Drew Falkman","startTime":1028.314,"endTime":1029.694,"body":"integration and interaction."},{"speaker":"Drew Falkman","startTime":1029.694,"endTime":1031.824,"body":"So that might be a better"},{"speaker":"Drew Falkman","startTime":1029.694,"endTime":1031.824,"body":"tool for this use case."},{"speaker":"Drew Falkman","startTime":1032.395,"endTime":1035.244,"body":"But if I were doing it here,"},{"speaker":"Drew Falkman","startTime":1032.395,"endTime":1035.244,"body":"it will actually do a two-way"},{"speaker":"Drew Falkman","startTime":1035.244,"endTime":1038.054,"body":"sync to GitHub, which I'll try"},{"speaker":"Drew Falkman","startTime":1035.244,"endTime":1038.054,"body":"and show if we have time today."},{"speaker":"Drew Falkman","startTime":1038.385,"endTime":1041.685,"body":"So you could do an"},{"speaker":"Drew Falkman","startTime":1038.385,"endTime":1041.685,"body":"iteration of a screen, you"},{"speaker":"Drew Falkman","startTime":1041.685,"endTime":1043.304,"body":"could post it to GitHub."},{"speaker":"Drew Falkman","startTime":1044.294,"endTime":1046.665,"body":"And then your devs"},{"speaker":"Drew Falkman","startTime":1044.294,"endTime":1046.665,"body":"could pull it down."},{"speaker":"Drew Falkman","startTime":1046.724,"endTime":1049.455,"body":"They could apply all of"},{"speaker":"Drew Falkman","startTime":1046.724,"endTime":1049.455,"body":"their components and design"},{"speaker":"Drew Falkman","startTime":1049.455,"endTime":1051.314,"body":"systems and push it back up."},{"speaker":"Drew Falkman","startTime":1051.644,"endTime":1054.074,"body":"And then when you went back in"},{"speaker":"Drew Falkman","startTime":1051.644,"endTime":1054.074,"body":"all that stuff, you should be"},{"speaker":"Drew Falkman","startTime":1054.074,"endTime":1057.915,"body":"able to see it and it should"},{"speaker":"Drew Falkman","startTime":1054.074,"endTime":1057.915,"body":"hopefully, ideally work great."},{"speaker":"Hannah Clark","startTime":1058.394,"endTime":1059.175,"body":"Wicked."},{"speaker":"Hannah Clark","startTime":1059.564,"endTime":1061.364,"body":"This question is"},{"speaker":"Hannah Clark","startTime":1059.564,"endTime":1061.364,"body":"from Donald for Drew."},{"speaker":"Hannah Clark","startTime":1061.695,"endTime":1063.705,"body":"What's your experience around"},{"speaker":"Hannah Clark","startTime":1061.695,"endTime":1063.705,"body":"vibe coding for something that"},{"speaker":"Hannah Clark","startTime":1063.705,"endTime":1067.034,"body":"is more cloney in brackets"},{"speaker":"Hannah Clark","startTime":1063.705,"endTime":1067.034,"body":"via another task manager"},{"speaker":"Hannah Clark","startTime":1067.304,"endTime":1070.034,"body":"versus something that is more"},{"speaker":"Hannah Clark","startTime":1067.304,"endTime":1070.034,"body":"unique, like a sonification"},{"speaker":"Hannah Clark","startTime":1070.034,"endTime":1071.024,"body":"of Google Trends data?"},{"speaker":"Hannah Clark","startTime":1071.024,"endTime":1074.345,"body":"So in other words, vibe coding"},{"speaker":"Hannah Clark","startTime":1071.024,"endTime":1074.345,"body":"for something that is more like"},{"speaker":"Hannah Clark","startTime":1074.615,"endTime":1077.585,"body":"a version of something that"},{"speaker":"Hannah Clark","startTime":1074.615,"endTime":1077.585,"body":"already exists in multitude"},{"speaker":"Hannah Clark","startTime":1077.945,"endTime":1080.465,"body":"versus something that's a"},{"speaker":"Hannah Clark","startTime":1077.945,"endTime":1080.465,"body":"completely unheard of, never"},{"speaker":"Hannah Clark","startTime":1080.465,"endTime":1082.445,"body":"really been done before idea."},{"speaker":"Drew Falkman","startTime":1082.865,"endTime":1083.885,"body":"That's"},{"speaker":"Drew Falkman","startTime":1082.865,"endTime":1083.885,"body":"a great question."},{"speaker":"Drew Falkman","startTime":1084.395,"endTime":1089.405,"body":"So my experience in general"},{"speaker":"Drew Falkman","startTime":1084.395,"endTime":1089.405,"body":"with prototyping tools and"},{"speaker":"Drew Falkman","startTime":1089.435,"endTime":1093.784,"body":"vibe coding tools is that"},{"speaker":"Drew Falkman","startTime":1089.435,"endTime":1093.784,"body":"anything that exists is"},{"speaker":"Drew Falkman","startTime":1094.205,"endTime":1095.375,"body":"fairly straightforward."},{"speaker":"Drew Falkman","startTime":1095.794,"endTime":1097.685,"body":"It can add them, it understands."},{"speaker":"Drew Falkman","startTime":1097.979,"endTime":1101.039,"body":"Like our sort of default"},{"speaker":"Drew Falkman","startTime":1097.979,"endTime":1101.039,"body":"example today is a travel app."},{"speaker":"Drew Falkman","startTime":1101.489,"endTime":1105.239,"body":"It can do travel apps all day"},{"speaker":"Drew Falkman","startTime":1101.489,"endTime":1105.239,"body":"long, but when you get into"},{"speaker":"Drew Falkman","startTime":1105.239,"endTime":1108.689,"body":"something like Sonification"},{"speaker":"Drew Falkman","startTime":1105.239,"endTime":1108.689,"body":"of Google Trends data, it's"},{"speaker":"Drew Falkman","startTime":1108.689,"endTime":1109.889,"body":"going to be more of a battle."},{"speaker":"Drew Falkman","startTime":1109.889,"endTime":1114.089,"body":"And I would add, if you get"},{"speaker":"Drew Falkman","startTime":1109.889,"endTime":1114.089,"body":"into anything that's outside"},{"speaker":"Drew Falkman","startTime":1114.149,"endTime":1118.139,"body":"of, that's going to require"},{"speaker":"Drew Falkman","startTime":1114.149,"endTime":1118.139,"body":"like very custom sort of"},{"speaker":"Drew Falkman","startTime":1118.139,"endTime":1122.189,"body":"visualization tools other"},{"speaker":"Drew Falkman","startTime":1118.139,"endTime":1122.189,"body":"than your standard sort of UI"},{"speaker":"Drew Falkman","startTime":1122.219,"endTime":1125.099,"body":"elements with dropdowns and"},{"speaker":"Drew Falkman","startTime":1122.219,"endTime":1125.099,"body":"buttons and things like that."},{"speaker":"Drew Falkman","startTime":1125.459,"endTime":1128.159,"body":"You're gonna struggle with these"},{"speaker":"Drew Falkman","startTime":1125.459,"endTime":1128.159,"body":"kind of tools, at least with"},{"speaker":"Drew Falkman","startTime":1128.159,"endTime":1130.289,"body":"lovable and where we are today."},{"speaker":"Drew Falkman","startTime":1130.32,"endTime":1133.81,"body":"There may be other tools that"},{"speaker":"Drew Falkman","startTime":1130.32,"endTime":1133.81,"body":"will make this easier, but"},{"speaker":"Drew Falkman","startTime":1133.81,"endTime":1136.03,"body":"right now those are things"},{"speaker":"Drew Falkman","startTime":1133.81,"endTime":1136.03,"body":"you're gonna need to pull"},{"speaker":"Drew Falkman","startTime":1136.03,"endTime":1139.169,"body":"dabs in and work with if"},{"speaker":"Drew Falkman","startTime":1136.03,"endTime":1139.169,"body":"you're doing something crazy"},{"speaker":"Drew Falkman","startTime":1139.169,"endTime":1141.299,"body":"and really out of the norm."},{"speaker":"Hannah Clark","startTime":1141.899,"endTime":1142.109,"body":"All right."},{"speaker":"Hannah Clark","startTime":1142.159,"endTime":1143.389,"body":"That brings us to time."},{"speaker":"Hannah Clark","startTime":1143.659,"endTime":1146.539,"body":"I wanna give a huge thank you"},{"speaker":"Hannah Clark","startTime":1143.659,"endTime":1146.539,"body":"to Katie for being part of"},{"speaker":"Hannah Clark","startTime":1146.539,"endTime":1149.929,"body":"this, and of course to Drew"},{"speaker":"Hannah Clark","startTime":1146.539,"endTime":1149.929,"body":"for being such an amazing"},{"speaker":"Hannah Clark","startTime":1149.929,"endTime":1152.539,"body":"resource for volunteering"},{"speaker":"Hannah Clark","startTime":1149.929,"endTime":1152.539,"body":"your time and expertise."},{"speaker":"Hannah Clark","startTime":1155.644,"endTime":1156.634,"body":"Thanks for listening in."},{"speaker":"Hannah Clark","startTime":1156.814,"endTime":1159.514,"body":"For more great insights,"},{"speaker":"Hannah Clark","startTime":1156.814,"endTime":1159.514,"body":"how-to guides and tool reviews,"},{"speaker":"Hannah Clark","startTime":1159.544,"endTime":1163.154,"body":"subscribe to our newsletter at"},{"speaker":"Hannah Clark","startTime":1159.544,"endTime":1163.154,"body":"theproductmanager.com/subscribe."},{"speaker":"Hannah Clark","startTime":1163.474,"endTime":1166.024,"body":"You can hear more conversations"},{"speaker":"Hannah Clark","startTime":1163.474,"endTime":1166.024,"body":"like this by subscribing to"},{"speaker":"Hannah Clark","startTime":1166.024,"endTime":1168.574,"body":"The Product Manager wherever"},{"speaker":"Hannah Clark","startTime":1166.024,"endTime":1168.574,"body":"you get your podcasts."}]}