{"version":"1.0.0","segments":[{"speaker":"Hannah Clark","startTime":1.38,"endTime":3.15,"body":"Things"},{"speaker":"Hannah Clark","startTime":1.38,"endTime":3.15,"body":"aren't always as they seem."},{"speaker":"Hannah Clark","startTime":3.39,"endTime":5.25,"body":"From bait-and-switch"},{"speaker":"Hannah Clark","startTime":3.39,"endTime":5.25,"body":"subscription pricing, to the"},{"speaker":"Hannah Clark","startTime":5.25,"endTime":8.64,"body":"people who swear candy corn"},{"speaker":"Hannah Clark","startTime":5.25,"endTime":8.64,"body":"tastes good, we have no shortage"},{"speaker":"Hannah Clark","startTime":8.64,"endTime":11.53,"body":"of reasons to be skeptical"},{"speaker":"Hannah Clark","startTime":8.64,"endTime":11.53,"body":"of everything—especially"},{"speaker":"Hannah Clark","startTime":11.55,"endTime":12.42,"body":"right now in product."},{"speaker":"Hannah Clark","startTime":12.78,"endTime":15.27,"body":"The speed of change in"},{"speaker":"Hannah 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Clark","startTime":28.909,"endTime":31.54,"body":"My guest today is Matt"},{"speaker":"Hannah Clark","startTime":28.909,"endTime":31.54,"body":"Graney, CPO of Celigo."},{"speaker":"Hannah Clark","startTime":31.79,"endTime":34.7,"body":"Matt has spent over 20 years"},{"speaker":"Hannah Clark","startTime":31.79,"endTime":34.7,"body":"in B2B product and almost"},{"speaker":"Hannah Clark","startTime":34.7,"endTime":37.04,"body":"nine of them scaling the"},{"speaker":"Hannah Clark","startTime":34.7,"endTime":37.04,"body":"product team at Celigo from"},{"speaker":"Hannah Clark","startTime":37.04,"endTime":38.87,"body":"four to over 45 people."},{"speaker":"Hannah Clark","startTime":39.195,"endTime":41.864,"body":"And while AI has proven to be"},{"speaker":"Hannah Clark","startTime":39.195,"endTime":41.864,"body":"an extraordinary opportunity"},{"speaker":"Hannah Clark","startTime":41.864,"endTime":44.925,"body":"for the company, he's noticed"},{"speaker":"Hannah 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Clark","startTime":72.07,"endTime":73.96,"body":"Product Manager Podcast."},{"speaker":"Hannah Clark","startTime":73.96,"endTime":75.29,"body":"I'm here today with Matt Graney."},{"speaker":"Hannah Clark","startTime":75.31,"endTime":76.76,"body":"He's a CPO at Celigo."},{"speaker":"Hannah Clark","startTime":77.14,"endTime":78.64,"body":"Matt, thank you so much"},{"speaker":"Hannah Clark","startTime":77.14,"endTime":78.64,"body":"for making time in your"},{"speaker":"Hannah Clark","startTime":78.64,"endTime":79.54,"body":"schedule to talk to us."},{"speaker":"Matt Graney","startTime":79.75,"endTime":80.53,"body":"Thank you, Hannah."},{"speaker":"Matt Graney","startTime":80.53,"endTime":81.64,"body":"Great to talk to you today."},{"speaker":"Hannah Clark","startTime":81.97,"endTime":83.23,"body":"So can you tell"},{"speaker":"Hannah Clark","startTime":81.97,"endTime":83.23,"body":"us a little bit about your"},{"speaker":"Hannah Clark","startTime":83.23,"endTime":85.73,"body":"background and your journey"},{"speaker":"Hannah Clark","startTime":83.23,"endTime":85.73,"body":"to becoming the CPO at Celigo?"},{"speaker":"Matt Graney","startTime":86.05,"endTime":89.11,"body":"Yeah, so I've been"},{"speaker":"Matt Graney","startTime":86.05,"endTime":89.11,"body":"in B2B product for a long time"},{"speaker":"Matt Graney","startTime":89.11,"endTime":91.12,"body":"now, about the last 20 years."},{"speaker":"Matt Graney","startTime":91.52,"endTime":94.72,"body":"Celigo is an integration"},{"speaker":"Matt Graney","startTime":91.52,"endTime":94.72,"body":"platform, and so I've been"},{"speaker":"Matt Graney","startTime":94.72,"endTime":97.875,"body":"with  Celigo for eight and"},{"speaker":"Matt Graney","startTime":94.72,"endTime":97.875,"body":"a half years joining just"},{"speaker":"Matt Graney","startTime":97.875,"endTime":99.285,"body":"after series A funding."},{"speaker":"Matt Graney","startTime":99.345,"endTime":101.985,"body":"And another five and a 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get"},{"speaker":"Hannah Clark","startTime":376.315,"endTime":379.585,"body":"much more sophisticated and we"},{"speaker":"Hannah Clark","startTime":376.315,"endTime":379.585,"body":"as users will also become much"},{"speaker":"Hannah Clark","startTime":379.585,"endTime":382.195,"body":"more sophisticated at using"},{"speaker":"Hannah Clark","startTime":379.585,"endTime":382.195,"body":"them, which means, of course,"},{"speaker":"Hannah Clark","startTime":382.195,"endTime":385.375,"body":"we're trending towards this cost"},{"speaker":"Hannah Clark","startTime":382.195,"endTime":385.375,"body":"of building, approaching zero."},{"speaker":"Hannah Clark","startTime":385.645,"endTime":388.165,"body":"So for yourself as a product"},{"speaker":"Hannah Clark","startTime":385.645,"endTime":388.165,"body":"leader, what are the concerns"},{"speaker":"Hannah Clark","startTime":388.165,"endTime":390.595,"body":"that you have about that"},{"speaker":"Hannah Clark","startTime":388.165,"endTime":390.595,"body":"trend and what have you"},{"speaker":"Hannah Clark","startTime":390.595,"endTime":392.435,"body":"been doing to mitigate"},{"speaker":"Hannah Clark","startTime":390.595,"endTime":392.435,"body":"those concerns at Celigo?"},{"speaker":"Matt Graney","startTime":392.665,"endTime":394.405,"body":"Yeah, Hannah,"},{"speaker":"Matt Graney","startTime":392.665,"endTime":394.405,"body":"I think that's a great"},{"speaker":"Matt Graney","startTime":394.615,"endTime":397.315,"body":"mental model, a great"},{"speaker":"Matt Graney","startTime":394.615,"endTime":397.315,"body":"thought experiment to run."},{"speaker":"Matt Graney","startTime":397.315,"endTime":400.525,"body":"Like what happens if the cost"},{"speaker":"Matt Graney","startTime":397.315,"endTime":400.525,"body":"of building goes towards zero?"},{"speaker":"Matt Graney","startTime":400.96,"endTime":403.54,"body":"Okay, maybe it's fast"},{"speaker":"Matt Graney","startTime":400.96,"endTime":403.54,"body":"approaching the generations of"},{"speaker":"Matt Graney","startTime":403.54,"endTime":407.32,"body":"these tools, as you say, the"},{"speaker":"Matt Graney","startTime":403.54,"endTime":407.32,"body":"ability of users, skilled users,"},{"speaker":"Matt Graney","startTime":407.32,"endTime":410.17,"body":"just as we see improvements"},{"speaker":"Matt Graney","startTime":407.32,"endTime":410.17,"body":"in sort of the usual"},{"speaker":"Matt Graney","startTime":410.17,"endTime":412.93,"body":"ChatGPT kind of experiences."},{"speaker":"Matt Graney","startTime":413.26,"endTime":415.78,"body":"So we can expect a"},{"speaker":"Matt Graney","startTime":413.26,"endTime":415.78,"body":"dramatic decline so"},{"speaker":"Matt Graney","startTime":415.78,"endTime":418.39,"body":"become so cheap to build."},{"speaker":"Matt Graney","startTime":418.75,"endTime":421.32,"body":"I think that actually"},{"speaker":"Matt 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an"},{"speaker":"Hannah Clark","startTime":480.215,"endTime":482.915,"body":"explosion of tools flooding the"},{"speaker":"Hannah Clark","startTime":482.915,"endTime":486.485,"body":"market that seem to offer, let's"},{"speaker":"Hannah Clark","startTime":482.915,"endTime":486.485,"body":"say, enchanting benefits while"},{"speaker":"Hannah Clark","startTime":486.485,"endTime":489.335,"body":"hiding what, maybe even, not"},{"speaker":"Hannah Clark","startTime":486.485,"endTime":489.335,"body":"even hiding, but just offering"},{"speaker":"Hannah Clark","startTime":489.335,"endTime":490.655,"body":"some very serious risks."},{"speaker":"Hannah Clark","startTime":490.655,"endTime":494.31,"body":"Like I've seen some fairly"},{"speaker":"Hannah Clark","startTime":490.655,"endTime":494.31,"body":"egregious concepts circulating"},{"speaker":"Hannah Clark","startTime":494.55,"endTime":498.39,"body":"that I could just so clearly see"},{"speaker":"Hannah 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every"},{"speaker":"Matt Graney","startTime":542.74,"endTime":544.09,"body":"conversation there ever was."},{"speaker":"Matt Graney","startTime":544.39,"endTime":547.27,"body":"I think we all know there's"},{"speaker":"Matt Graney","startTime":544.39,"endTime":547.27,"body":"plenty of things that happen"},{"speaker":"Matt Graney","startTime":547.3,"endTime":551.11,"body":"out of band observations that"},{"speaker":"Matt Graney","startTime":547.3,"endTime":551.11,"body":"maybe, yeah, maybe it comes from"},{"speaker":"Matt Graney","startTime":551.11,"endTime":554.68,"body":"a session replay tool, but it's"},{"speaker":"Matt Graney","startTime":551.11,"endTime":554.68,"body":"not like written down in a form"},{"speaker":"Matt Graney","startTime":554.68,"endTime":557.17,"body":"that an LLM is gonna understand."},{"speaker":"Matt Graney","startTime":557.17,"endTime":557.41,"body":"Right."},{"speaker":"Matt Graney","startTime":557.77,"endTime":561.28,"body":"So I think there's no substitute"},{"speaker":"Matt Graney","startTime":557.77,"endTime":561.28,"body":"for sound product judgment,"},{"speaker":"Matt Graney","startTime":561.61,"endTime":564.88,"body":"and while we are, maybe we"},{"speaker":"Matt Graney","startTime":561.61,"endTime":564.88,"body":"have more data than ever."},{"speaker":"Matt Graney","startTime":564.94,"endTime":568.15,"body":"I think at the end of the"},{"speaker":"Matt Graney","startTime":564.94,"endTime":568.15,"body":"day it's incomplete data."},{"speaker":"Matt Graney","startTime":568.56,"endTime":571.89,"body":"And there still needs"},{"speaker":"Matt Graney","startTime":568.56,"endTime":571.89,"body":"to be a vision, a"},{"speaker":"Matt Graney","startTime":571.89,"endTime":575.58,"body":"strategy, and in product"},{"speaker":"Matt Graney","startTime":571.89,"endTime":575.58,"body":"management there are bets."},{"speaker":"Matt Graney","startTime":575.58,"endTime":578.28,"body":"And yes, we take bets knowing"},{"speaker":"Matt 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exploit"},{"speaker":"Hannah Clark","startTime":604.475,"endTime":606.935,"body":"those advantages, but then"},{"speaker":"Hannah Clark","startTime":606.935,"endTime":609.395,"body":"there's things that it's"},{"speaker":"Hannah Clark","startTime":606.935,"endTime":609.395,"body":"not so good at, but it looks"},{"speaker":"Hannah Clark","startTime":609.395,"endTime":610.235,"body":"like it's very good at."},{"speaker":"Hannah Clark","startTime":610.235,"endTime":612.725,"body":"And so, yeah, it's a matter"},{"speaker":"Hannah Clark","startTime":610.235,"endTime":612.725,"body":"of the product sense, but also"},{"speaker":"Hannah Clark","startTime":612.725,"endTime":614.735,"body":"understanding the technology"},{"speaker":"Hannah Clark","startTime":612.725,"endTime":614.735,"body":"well enough to be able to"},{"speaker":"Hannah Clark","startTime":614.735,"endTime":617.225,"body":"kind of check yourself on,"},{"speaker":"Hannah Clark","startTime":614.735,"endTime":617.225,"body":"like what are you really"},{"speaker":"Hannah Clark","startTime":617.225,"endTime":619.955,"body":"relying overly relying"},{"speaker":"Hannah Clark","startTime":617.225,"endTime":619.955,"body":"on the LMS to do for you?"},{"speaker":"Matt Graney","startTime":620.165,"endTime":622.865,"body":"And I think even"},{"speaker":"Matt Graney","startTime":620.165,"endTime":622.865,"body":"with basic chat interfaces,"},{"speaker":"Matt Graney","startTime":622.865,"endTime":626.055,"body":"I think we've seen plenty"},{"speaker":"Matt Graney","startTime":622.865,"endTime":626.055,"body":"of examples of some AI being"},{"speaker":"Matt Graney","startTime":626.055,"endTime":627.705,"body":"quite sycophantic, right?"},{"speaker":"Matt Graney","startTime":627.765,"endTime":630.705,"body":"And if you're not really"},{"speaker":"Matt Graney","startTime":627.765,"endTime":630.705,"body":"awake to that, you might"},{"speaker":"Matt Graney","startTime":630.705,"endTime":632.655,"body":"begin to think, you"},{"speaker":"Matt Graney","startTime":630.705,"endTime":632.655,"body":"always have great ideas."},{"speaker":"Matt Graney","startTime":633.3,"endTime":636.21,"body":"And so personally, I like"},{"speaker":"Matt Graney","startTime":633.3,"endTime":636.21,"body":"to spice it up a little bit"},{"speaker":"Matt Graney","startTime":636.21,"endTime":640.0,"body":"and make sure that I have"},{"speaker":"Matt Graney","startTime":636.21,"endTime":640.0,"body":"sort of an alternative view"},{"speaker":"Matt Graney","startTime":640.0,"endTime":643.63,"body":"and ask for a hypercritical"},{"speaker":"Matt Graney","startTime":640.0,"endTime":643.63,"body":"review of the ideas I have."},{"speaker":"Matt Graney","startTime":643.63,"endTime":645.61,"body":"Because otherwise I'm"},{"speaker":"Matt Graney","startTime":643.63,"endTime":645.61,"body":"always sounding like a"},{"speaker":"Matt Graney","startTime":645.61,"endTime":647.17,"body":"genius when I talk to my AI."},{"speaker":"Matt Graney","startTime":647.2,"endTime":647.44,"body":"So"},{"speaker":"Hannah Clark","startTime":648.25,"endTime":649.45,"body":"yeah, they"},{"speaker":"Hannah Clark","startTime":648.25,"endTime":649.45,"body":"love us, don't they?"},{"speaker":"Hannah Clark","startTime":650.03,"endTime":652.92,"body":"So let's kinda move past by"},{"speaker":"Hannah Clark","startTime":650.03,"endTime":652.92,"body":"pointing a little bit and I'd"},{"speaker":"Hannah Clark","startTime":652.92,"endTime":655.5,"body":"like to talk about some other,"},{"speaker":"Hannah Clark","startTime":652.92,"endTime":655.5,"body":"let's say like attractive"},{"speaker":"Hannah Clark","startTime":655.5,"endTime":658.35,"body":"but ultimately unsustainable"},{"speaker":"Hannah Clark","startTime":655.5,"endTime":658.35,"body":"shortcuts that we're seeing"},{"speaker":"Hannah Clark","startTime":658.35,"endTime":659.73,"body":"product teams take right now."},{"speaker":"Hannah Clark","startTime":659.73,"endTime":661.08,"body":"What are some of the"},{"speaker":"Hannah Clark","startTime":659.73,"endTime":661.08,"body":"bigger offenders that"},{"speaker":"Hannah Clark","startTime":661.08,"endTime":661.74,"body":"you've seen around?"},{"speaker":"Matt Graney","startTime":661.92,"endTime":664.77,"body":"I think one"},{"speaker":"Matt Graney","startTime":661.92,"endTime":664.77,"body":"of my favorites is OKRs."},{"speaker":"Matt Graney","startTime":665.76,"endTime":668.29,"body":"I think we've got sort of a"},{"speaker":"Matt Graney","startTime":665.76,"endTime":668.29,"body":"troubled relationship with"},{"speaker":"Matt Graney","startTime":668.29,"endTime":671.32,"body":"them, maybe at a company level,"},{"speaker":"Matt Graney","startTime":668.29,"endTime":671.32,"body":"not too bad, but I think in"},{"speaker":"Matt Graney","startTime":671.32,"endTime":674.5,"body":"product it, it can be a bit"},{"speaker":"Matt Graney","startTime":671.32,"endTime":674.5,"body":"challenging and I think, you"},{"speaker":"Matt Graney","startTime":674.5,"endTime":677.95,"body":"know, it's what happens when"},{"speaker":"Matt Graney","startTime":674.5,"endTime":677.95,"body":"you try to import something."},{"speaker":"Matt Graney","startTime":678.39,"endTime":681.51,"body":"From a fang, in this case,"},{"speaker":"Matt Graney","startTime":678.39,"endTime":681.51,"body":"like one of the big name"},{"speaker":"Matt Graney","startTime":681.51,"endTime":683.94,"body":"companies, without necessarily"},{"speaker":"Matt Graney","startTime":681.51,"endTime":683.94,"body":"having the rest of the"},{"speaker":"Matt Graney","startTime":683.94,"endTime":684.93,"body":"culture to go with it."},{"speaker":"Matt Graney","startTime":685.29,"endTime":689.22,"body":"I think that's in general, you"},{"speaker":"Matt Graney","startTime":685.29,"endTime":689.22,"body":"just can't graft on a limb."},{"speaker":"Matt Graney","startTime":689.31,"endTime":691.77,"body":"Okay, now we're gonna talk"},{"speaker":"Matt Graney","startTime":689.31,"endTime":691.77,"body":"Frankenstein's monsters."},{"speaker":"Matt Graney","startTime":691.77,"endTime":692.07,"body":"Right?"},{"speaker":"Matt Graney","startTime":692.07,"endTime":695.24,"body":"If you don't have that sort of"},{"speaker":"Matt Graney","startTime":692.07,"endTime":695.24,"body":"as part of the culture, these"},{"speaker":"Matt Graney","startTime":695.24,"endTime":698.42,"body":"things are never really going"},{"speaker":"Matt Graney","startTime":695.24,"endTime":698.42,"body":"to knit together properly."},{"speaker":"Matt Graney","startTime":698.42,"endTime":698.72,"body":"Right?"},{"speaker":"Matt Graney","startTime":698.72,"endTime":699.44,"body":"So that's one."},{"speaker":"Matt Graney","startTime":699.71,"endTime":702.62,"body":"I think there's also, we've"},{"speaker":"Matt Graney","startTime":699.71,"endTime":702.62,"body":"all seen metrics theater, a"},{"speaker":"Matt Graney","startTime":702.62,"endTime":705.92,"body":"bunch of vanity metrics that"},{"speaker":"Matt Graney","startTime":702.62,"endTime":705.92,"body":"don't really tell us much or"},{"speaker":"Matt Graney","startTime":705.92,"endTime":707.51,"body":"don't drive better decisions."},{"speaker":"Matt Graney","startTime":707.75,"endTime":708.92,"body":"I think that's a Gotcha."},{"speaker":"Matt Graney","startTime":708.92,"endTime":710.12,"body":"That's been around for a while."},{"speaker":"Matt Graney","startTime":710.72,"endTime":714.02,"body":"Maybe we talk about feature"},{"speaker":"Matt Graney","startTime":710.72,"endTime":714.02,"body":"factories or feature farms, and"},{"speaker":"Matt Graney","startTime":714.02,"endTime":716.81,"body":"maybe now we have the ability"},{"speaker":"Matt Graney","startTime":714.02,"endTime":716.81,"body":"to farm by the acre, right?"},{"speaker":"Matt Graney","startTime":716.91,"endTime":719.04,"body":"Because of the scale,"},{"speaker":"Matt Graney","startTime":716.91,"endTime":719.04,"body":"again, where our ability"},{"speaker":"Matt Graney","startTime":719.04,"endTime":720.54,"body":"to produce is going up."},{"speaker":"Matt Graney","startTime":720.6,"endTime":722.94,"body":"How do we make sure we're"},{"speaker":"Matt Graney","startTime":720.6,"endTime":722.94,"body":"producing the right thing?"},{"speaker":"Matt Graney","startTime":722.94,"endTime":725.7,"body":"So I think any of these"},{"speaker":"Matt Graney","startTime":722.94,"endTime":725.7,"body":"sorts of things are"},{"speaker":"Matt Graney","startTime":725.73,"endTime":726.84,"body":"essentially shortcuts."},{"speaker":"Matt Graney","startTime":727.355,"endTime":730.175,"body":"Again, looking for magic"},{"speaker":"Matt Graney","startTime":727.355,"endTime":730.175,"body":"solutions that apparently work"},{"speaker":"Matt Graney","startTime":730.175,"endTime":733.685,"body":"somewhere because someone read"},{"speaker":"Matt Graney","startTime":730.175,"endTime":733.685,"body":"them on on X or on LinkedIn"},{"speaker":"Matt Graney","startTime":733.685,"endTime":738.665,"body":"somewhere, and without that sort"},{"speaker":"Matt Graney","startTime":733.685,"endTime":738.665,"body":"of rigor behind them, it's just"},{"speaker":"Matt Graney","startTime":738.665,"endTime":740.555,"body":"going to erode trust, I think."},{"speaker":"Hannah Clark","startTime":740.94,"endTime":742.35,"body":"Yeah,"},{"speaker":"Hannah Clark","startTime":740.94,"endTime":742.35,"body":"I would agree on the"},{"speaker":"Hannah Clark","startTime":742.35,"endTime":743.31,"body":"topic of eroding trust."},{"speaker":"Hannah Clark","startTime":743.31,"endTime":744.84,"body":"I think that one of the"},{"speaker":"Hannah Clark","startTime":743.31,"endTime":744.84,"body":"ones that comes to mind"},{"speaker":"Hannah Clark","startTime":744.84,"endTime":749.19,"body":"for me is how it's affected"},{"speaker":"Hannah Clark","startTime":744.84,"endTime":749.19,"body":"the UX research community."},{"speaker":"Hannah Clark","startTime":749.4,"endTime":752.19,"body":"I know that the UX researchers,"},{"speaker":"Hannah Clark","startTime":749.4,"endTime":752.19,"body":"I think, have long suffered"},{"speaker":"Hannah Clark","startTime":752.19,"endTime":754.26,"body":"as being sort of the"},{"speaker":"Hannah Clark","startTime":752.19,"endTime":754.26,"body":"underappreciated aspect"},{"speaker":"Hannah Clark","startTime":754.26,"endTime":755.55,"body":"of the product process."},{"speaker":"Hannah Clark","startTime":755.82,"endTime":760.08,"body":"But now LLMs, I think we kind"},{"speaker":"Hannah Clark","startTime":755.82,"endTime":760.08,"body":"of get an even more muddled view"},{"speaker":"Hannah Clark","startTime":760.11,"endTime":763.86,"body":"of how to conduct that correctly"},{"speaker":"Hannah Clark","startTime":760.11,"endTime":763.86,"body":"and kind of the role of AI in"},{"speaker":"Hannah Clark","startTime":764.13,"endTime":765.36,"body":"assisting with that process."},{"speaker":"Hannah Clark","startTime":765.86,"endTime":768.62,"body":"That's one like, I wish I could"},{"speaker":"Hannah Clark","startTime":765.86,"endTime":768.62,"body":"shut it from the rooftops that"},{"speaker":"Hannah Clark","startTime":768.62,"endTime":772.55,"body":"you just cannot substitute"},{"speaker":"Hannah Clark","startTime":768.62,"endTime":772.55,"body":"user research with LLM."},{"speaker":"Matt Graney","startTime":772.76,"endTime":775.53,"body":"And our head of"},{"speaker":"Matt Graney","startTime":772.76,"endTime":775.53,"body":"user research recently was"},{"speaker":"Matt Graney","startTime":775.53,"endTime":778.829,"body":"telling me the same thing that"},{"speaker":"Matt Graney","startTime":775.53,"endTime":778.829,"body":"the AI transcripts are great."},{"speaker":"Matt Graney","startTime":778.89,"endTime":779.31,"body":"Okay."},{"speaker":"Matt Graney","startTime":779.37,"endTime":781.829,"body":"You know, verbatim, this"},{"speaker":"Matt Graney","startTime":779.37,"endTime":781.829,"body":"is what was actually said."},{"speaker":"Matt Graney","startTime":781.829,"endTime":785.61,"body":"But the insights often"},{"speaker":"Matt Graney","startTime":781.829,"endTime":785.61,"body":"miss the subtleties"},{"speaker":"Matt Graney","startTime":785.939,"endTime":788.28,"body":"certainly at the moment,"},{"speaker":"Matt Graney","startTime":785.939,"endTime":788.28,"body":"and maybe that'll change."},{"speaker":"Matt Graney","startTime":788.55,"endTime":792.06,"body":"I think as we say, there"},{"speaker":"Matt Graney","startTime":788.55,"endTime":792.06,"body":"is continued generations"},{"speaker":"Matt Graney","startTime":792.06,"endTime":793.56,"body":"of this technology."},{"speaker":"Matt Graney","startTime":793.589,"endTime":796.349,"body":"I think we can be optimistic"},{"speaker":"Matt Graney","startTime":793.589,"endTime":796.349,"body":"about the future, but for"},{"speaker":"Matt Graney","startTime":796.349,"endTime":799.68,"body":"now I think it's as most"},{"speaker":"Matt Graney","startTime":796.349,"endTime":799.68,"body":"important to understand the"},{"speaker":"Matt Graney","startTime":799.68,"endTime":803.4,"body":"limitations and guard against"},{"speaker":"Matt Graney","startTime":799.68,"endTime":803.4,"body":"them through of fashion"},{"speaker":"Matt Graney","startTime":803.4,"endTime":805.65,"body":"craft of good user research."},{"speaker":"Hannah Clark","startTime":805.92,"endTime":807.42,"body":"So switching"},{"speaker":"Hannah Clark","startTime":805.92,"endTime":807.42,"body":"gears a little bit, let's"},{"speaker":"Hannah Clark","startTime":807.42,"endTime":809.459,"body":"talk a little bit about your"},{"speaker":"Hannah Clark","startTime":807.42,"endTime":809.459,"body":"experience scaling teams."},{"speaker":"Hannah Clark","startTime":810.189,"endTime":811.599,"body":"So you have been"},{"speaker":"Hannah Clark","startTime":810.189,"endTime":811.599,"body":"doing it for a while."},{"speaker":"Hannah Clark","startTime":811.599,"endTime":814.149,"body":"You've scaled your team"},{"speaker":"Hannah Clark","startTime":811.599,"endTime":814.149,"body":"at Celigo from two PMs"},{"speaker":"Hannah Clark","startTime":814.149,"endTime":816.099,"body":"to 10 times that size."},{"speaker":"Hannah Clark","startTime":816.399,"endTime":818.499,"body":"You've got lots of experience"},{"speaker":"Hannah Clark","startTime":816.399,"endTime":818.499,"body":"in building processes."},{"speaker":"Hannah Clark","startTime":818.499,"endTime":820.899,"body":"I'm sure that there have"},{"speaker":"Hannah Clark","startTime":818.499,"endTime":820.899,"body":"been missteps along the way."},{"speaker":"Hannah Clark","startTime":821.214,"endTime":824.274,"body":"So can you tell us a little"},{"speaker":"Hannah Clark","startTime":821.214,"endTime":824.274,"body":"bit about what has been sort"},{"speaker":"Hannah Clark","startTime":824.274,"endTime":827.454,"body":"of your, or a few of your best"},{"speaker":"Hannah Clark","startTime":824.274,"endTime":827.454,"body":"takeaways in terms of scaling"},{"speaker":"Hannah Clark","startTime":827.454,"endTime":830.754,"body":"teams from small organizations"},{"speaker":"Hannah Clark","startTime":827.454,"endTime":830.754,"body":"throughout their maturity?"},{"speaker":"Hannah Clark","startTime":830.994,"endTime":832.764,"body":"What have you kind of learned"},{"speaker":"Hannah Clark","startTime":830.994,"endTime":832.764,"body":"that you think still holds"},{"speaker":"Hannah Clark","startTime":832.764,"endTime":835.614,"body":"true even today in this"},{"speaker":"Hannah Clark","startTime":832.764,"endTime":835.614,"body":"fast moving time of AI?"},{"speaker":"Matt Graney","startTime":835.795,"endTime":837.654,"body":"Yeah, so"},{"speaker":"Matt Graney","startTime":835.795,"endTime":837.654,"body":"it has been a journey,"},{"speaker":"Matt Graney","startTime":837.654,"endTime":838.344,"body":"as you say, Hannah."},{"speaker":"Matt Graney","startTime":838.344,"endTime":841.224,"body":"So I joined the company,"},{"speaker":"Matt Graney","startTime":838.344,"endTime":841.224,"body":"inherited two PMs"},{"speaker":"Matt Graney","startTime":841.224,"endTime":842.535,"body":"and two tech writers."},{"speaker":"Matt Graney","startTime":842.784,"endTime":843.864,"body":"So team of four."},{"speaker":"Matt Graney","startTime":844.16,"endTime":847.49,"body":"Now we're, you know, about"},{"speaker":"Matt Graney","startTime":844.16,"endTime":847.49,"body":"45, close to 50, right?"},{"speaker":"Matt Graney","startTime":847.49,"endTime":851.24,"body":"So it's been a lot and it's"},{"speaker":"Matt Graney","startTime":847.49,"endTime":851.24,"body":"a team of PMs, designers,"},{"speaker":"Matt Graney","startTime":851.24,"endTime":854.03,"body":"researchers, technical docs,"},{"speaker":"Matt Graney","startTime":851.24,"endTime":854.03,"body":"and product operations."},{"speaker":"Matt Graney","startTime":854.3,"endTime":857.209,"body":"I think what I've learned"},{"speaker":"Matt Graney","startTime":854.3,"endTime":857.209,"body":"is maybe the order in"},{"speaker":"Matt Graney","startTime":857.209,"endTime":858.53,"body":"which to do things right."},{"speaker":"Matt Graney","startTime":858.53,"endTime":861.979,"body":"So at the very beginning,"},{"speaker":"Matt Graney","startTime":858.53,"endTime":861.979,"body":"life was simple, you know,"},{"speaker":"Matt Graney","startTime":862.01,"endTime":864.74,"body":"by my side on the more of"},{"speaker":"Matt Graney","startTime":862.01,"endTime":864.74,"body":"the platform side, working"},{"speaker":"Matt Graney","startTime":864.74,"endTime":865.849,"body":"directly with our CTO."},{"speaker":"Matt Graney","startTime":866.554,"endTime":869.044,"body":"And three of us around"},{"speaker":"Matt Graney","startTime":866.554,"endTime":869.044,"body":"a room prioritizing an"},{"speaker":"Matt Graney","startTime":869.044,"endTime":870.214,"body":"entire backlog, right?"},{"speaker":"Matt Graney","startTime":870.394,"endTime":871.854,"body":"I mean it was as simple as that."},{"speaker":"Matt Graney","startTime":871.884,"endTime":874.165,"body":"But that clearly doesn't"},{"speaker":"Matt Graney","startTime":871.884,"endTime":874.165,"body":"scale in the long run."},{"speaker":"Matt Graney","startTime":874.494,"endTime":876.594,"body":"You know, dealing with"},{"speaker":"Matt Graney","startTime":874.494,"endTime":876.594,"body":"offshore teams, both PMs"},{"speaker":"Matt Graney","startTime":876.594,"endTime":879.025,"body":"and engineering, being"},{"speaker":"Matt Graney","startTime":876.594,"endTime":879.025,"body":"offshore, complicates things."},{"speaker":"Matt Graney","startTime":879.025,"endTime":882.354,"body":"And we gradually added process"},{"speaker":"Matt Graney","startTime":879.025,"endTime":882.354,"body":"at the beginning, design"},{"speaker":"Matt Graney","startTime":882.354,"endTime":885.624,"body":"was just the best we could"},{"speaker":"Matt Graney","startTime":882.354,"endTime":885.624,"body":"do with the tools we had."},{"speaker":"Matt Graney","startTime":885.624,"endTime":888.535,"body":"So it was PMs doing their"},{"speaker":"Matt Graney","startTime":885.624,"endTime":888.535,"body":"best, you know, I always think"},{"speaker":"Matt Graney","startTime":888.535,"endTime":890.964,"body":"it was almost like stitching"},{"speaker":"Matt Graney","startTime":888.535,"endTime":890.964,"body":"together, screenshots, like a"},{"speaker":"Matt Graney","startTime":890.964,"endTime":896.594,"body":"ransom note that's kind of so"},{"speaker":"Matt Graney","startTime":890.964,"endTime":896.594,"body":"grungy and almost embarrassing."},{"speaker":"Matt Graney","startTime":896.594,"endTime":900.074,"body":"And then really, I think"},{"speaker":"Matt Graney","startTime":896.594,"endTime":900.074,"body":"our first foray into, you"},{"speaker":"Matt Graney","startTime":900.074,"endTime":902.654,"body":"know, professional designers,"},{"speaker":"Matt Graney","startTime":900.074,"endTime":902.654,"body":"we didn't do that well."},{"speaker":"Matt Graney","startTime":902.654,"endTime":906.044,"body":"I felt like we used design"},{"speaker":"Matt Graney","startTime":902.654,"endTime":906.044,"body":"more like a, an agency model,"},{"speaker":"Matt Graney","startTime":906.254,"endTime":909.434,"body":"Hey, make this look pretty,"},{"speaker":"Matt Graney","startTime":906.254,"endTime":909.434,"body":"instead of really thinking"},{"speaker":"Matt Graney","startTime":909.434,"endTime":912.494,"body":"about it as user experience"},{"speaker":"Matt Graney","startTime":909.434,"endTime":912.494,"body":"as opposed to just design."},{"speaker":"Matt Graney","startTime":913.305,"endTime":915.714,"body":"Stocks, we've always"},{"speaker":"Matt Graney","startTime":913.305,"endTime":915.714,"body":"been fairly good and that"},{"speaker":"Matt Graney","startTime":915.714,"endTime":916.885,"body":"has continued to evolve."},{"speaker":"Matt Graney","startTime":917.124,"endTime":919.494,"body":"So we've added process"},{"speaker":"Matt Graney","startTime":917.124,"endTime":919.494,"body":"as we needed it."},{"speaker":"Matt Graney","startTime":919.734,"endTime":922.314,"body":"I'm not saying we're perfect,"},{"speaker":"Matt Graney","startTime":919.734,"endTime":922.314,"body":"but it's tended to work for us"},{"speaker":"Matt Graney","startTime":922.314,"endTime":926.244,"body":"pretty well and maybe haven't"},{"speaker":"Matt Graney","startTime":922.314,"endTime":926.244,"body":"got all the right ceremonies in"},{"speaker":"Matt Graney","startTime":926.244,"endTime":927.655,"body":"place at times it feels like."},{"speaker":"Matt Graney","startTime":927.744,"endTime":930.204,"body":"But I think sort of"},{"speaker":"Matt Graney","startTime":927.744,"endTime":930.204,"body":"directionally it's been correct"},{"speaker":"Matt Graney","startTime":930.415,"endTime":935.005,"body":"and it's been a case of just"},{"speaker":"Matt Graney","startTime":930.415,"endTime":935.005,"body":"enough process and responding"},{"speaker":"Matt Graney","startTime":935.005,"endTime":935.849,"body":"to the needs of the business."},{"speaker":"Matt Graney","startTime":936.545,"endTime":939.124,"body":"And providing room to"},{"speaker":"Matt Graney","startTime":936.545,"endTime":939.124,"body":"grow for all members"},{"speaker":"Matt Graney","startTime":939.124,"endTime":940.084,"body":"of the team and so on."},{"speaker":"Matt Graney","startTime":940.415,"endTime":941.584,"body":"But it's been a journey."},{"speaker":"Matt Graney","startTime":941.584,"endTime":943.324,"body":"I've never run a team"},{"speaker":"Matt Graney","startTime":941.584,"endTime":943.324,"body":"this large before."},{"speaker":"Matt Graney","startTime":943.324,"endTime":943.624,"body":"Right."},{"speaker":"Matt Graney","startTime":943.624,"endTime":945.094,"body":"There are a lot of firsts here."},{"speaker":"Matt Graney","startTime":945.459,"endTime":948.52,"body":"And I have some battle scars"},{"speaker":"Matt Graney","startTime":945.459,"endTime":948.52,"body":"and gray hair to prove it."},{"speaker":"Hannah Clark","startTime":948.61,"endTime":949.12,"body":"Oh, really?"},{"speaker":"Hannah Clark","startTime":949.12,"endTime":949.39,"body":"Where?"},{"speaker":"Matt Graney","startTime":949.895,"endTime":951.459,"body":"Oh yeah."},{"speaker":"Matt Graney","startTime":951.459,"endTime":952.6,"body":"I'll blame my kids maybe."},{"speaker":"Matt Graney","startTime":952.6,"endTime":952.839,"body":"Okay."},{"speaker":"Hannah Clark","startTime":952.959,"endTime":953.23,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Hannah Clark","startTime":953.23,"endTime":954.55,"body":"You can blame everything"},{"speaker":"Hannah Clark","startTime":953.23,"endTime":954.55,"body":"on your children."},{"speaker":"Hannah Clark","startTime":954.73,"endTime":955.42,"body":"I do it all the time."},{"speaker":"Hannah Clark","startTime":955.719,"endTime":958.329,"body":"So to expand on that a little"},{"speaker":"Hannah Clark","startTime":955.719,"endTime":958.329,"body":"bit and kind of tie it in with"},{"speaker":"Hannah Clark","startTime":958.329,"endTime":960.73,"body":"what we were talking about"},{"speaker":"Hannah Clark","startTime":958.329,"endTime":960.73,"body":"before, I'm curious about some"},{"speaker":"Hannah Clark","startTime":960.79,"endTime":964.03,"body":"the tried and true product"},{"speaker":"Hannah Clark","startTime":960.79,"endTime":964.03,"body":"management practices that you"},{"speaker":"Hannah Clark","startTime":964.03,"endTime":968.62,"body":"think maybe are actually more"},{"speaker":"Hannah Clark","startTime":964.03,"endTime":968.62,"body":"important now than ever, even if"},{"speaker":"Hannah Clark","startTime":968.62,"endTime":969.969,"body":"they seem a little old school."},{"speaker":"Hannah Clark","startTime":970.01,"endTime":973.819,"body":"Are there any concepts or"},{"speaker":"Hannah Clark","startTime":970.01,"endTime":973.819,"body":"frameworks or practices that you"},{"speaker":"Hannah Clark","startTime":973.819,"endTime":977.3,"body":"found yourself returning to more"},{"speaker":"Hannah Clark","startTime":973.819,"endTime":977.3,"body":"than ever or emphasizing with"},{"speaker":"Hannah Clark","startTime":977.3,"endTime":978.62,"body":"your teams in the age of AI?"},{"speaker":"Matt Graney","startTime":978.86,"endTime":981.59,"body":"As I said, you"},{"speaker":"Matt Graney","startTime":978.86,"endTime":981.59,"body":"know, as the cost to build"},{"speaker":"Matt Graney","startTime":981.59,"endTime":985.37,"body":"maybe approaches zero, I"},{"speaker":"Matt 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Graney","startTime":1000.71,"endTime":1004.31,"body":"No substitute for firsthand"},{"speaker":"Matt Graney","startTime":1000.71,"endTime":1004.31,"body":"contact with users, with"},{"speaker":"Matt Graney","startTime":1004.31,"endTime":1006.83,"body":"customers, including, you know."},{"speaker":"Matt Graney","startTime":1007.189,"endTime":1009.949,"body":"I feel like I made my early"},{"speaker":"Matt Graney","startTime":1007.189,"endTime":1009.949,"body":"days of my career with sort"},{"speaker":"Matt Graney","startTime":1009.949,"endTime":1013.04,"body":"of hostage negotiation, like"},{"speaker":"Matt Graney","startTime":1009.949,"endTime":1013.04,"body":"unhappy customers, talking them"},{"speaker":"Matt Graney","startTime":1013.04,"endTime":1014.895,"body":"off ledgers or whatever, right."},{"speaker":"Matt Graney","startTime":1014.895,"endTime":1017.925,"body":"I think there is no substitute"},{"speaker":"Matt Graney","startTime":1014.895,"endTime":1017.925,"body":"for that because it really"},{"speaker":"Matt Graney","startTime":1017.925,"endTime":1022.274,"body":"helps inform the full picture"},{"speaker":"Matt Graney","startTime":1017.925,"endTime":1022.274,"body":"of what the product is about"},{"speaker":"Matt Graney","startTime":1022.274,"endTime":1026.02,"body":"and gives the PM tools they"},{"speaker":"Matt Graney","startTime":1022.274,"endTime":1026.02,"body":"need to better understand how"},{"speaker":"Matt Graney","startTime":1026.05,"endTime":1027.49,"body":"they ought to be prioritizing."},{"speaker":"Matt Graney","startTime":1027.73,"endTime":1030.82,"body":"So I mean, there's no substitute"},{"speaker":"Matt Graney","startTime":1027.73,"endTime":1030.82,"body":"for ruthless prioritization."},{"speaker":"Matt Graney","startTime":1031.06,"endTime":1033.58,"body":"At some level, you're"},{"speaker":"Matt Graney","startTime":1031.06,"endTime":1033.58,"body":"gonna run outta capacity."},{"speaker":"Matt Graney","startTime":1033.82,"endTime":1037.18,"body":"I sometimes look with envy at"},{"speaker":"Matt Graney","startTime":1033.82,"endTime":1037.18,"body":"much larger companies, but I"},{"speaker":"Matt Graney","startTime":1037.18,"endTime":1040.51,"body":"know somewhere they have exactly"},{"speaker":"Matt Graney","startTime":1037.18,"endTime":1040.51,"body":"the same sorts of problems."},{"speaker":"Matt Graney","startTime":1040.51,"endTime":1043.15,"body":"I know all PMs do, you"},{"speaker":"Matt Graney","startTime":1040.51,"endTime":1043.15,"body":"never have enough capacity."},{"speaker":"Matt Graney","startTime":1043.48,"endTime":1046.9,"body":"So it just comes down to"},{"speaker":"Matt Graney","startTime":1043.48,"endTime":1046.9,"body":"prioritization and all"},{"speaker":"Matt Graney","startTime":1046.96,"endTime":1047.865,"body":"the usual tools apply."},{"speaker":"Matt Graney","startTime":1048.51,"endTime":1051.57,"body":"I think, as I said, where AI"},{"speaker":"Matt Graney","startTime":1048.51,"endTime":1051.57,"body":"comes into play, okay, maybe"},{"speaker":"Matt Graney","startTime":1051.57,"endTime":1055.62,"body":"to help understand a whole and"},{"speaker":"Matt Graney","startTime":1051.57,"endTime":1055.62,"body":"digest a lot of information"},{"speaker":"Matt Graney","startTime":1056.01,"endTime":1059.76,"body":"indispensable when it comes to"},{"speaker":"Matt Graney","startTime":1056.01,"endTime":1059.76,"body":"research, and then now as we"},{"speaker":"Matt Graney","startTime":1059.76,"endTime":1062.7,"body":"talk about with vibe coding,"},{"speaker":"Matt Graney","startTime":1059.76,"endTime":1062.7,"body":"when put in its place, you"},{"speaker":"Matt Graney","startTime":1062.7,"endTime":1064.2,"body":"know, for rapid prototyping."},{"speaker":"Matt Graney","startTime":1064.41,"endTime":1066.33,"body":"I think what some people"},{"speaker":"Matt Graney","startTime":1064.41,"endTime":1066.33,"body":"forget about prototyping"},{"speaker":"Matt Graney","startTime":1066.33,"endTime":1068.82,"body":"too, is the original ideas"},{"speaker":"Matt Graney","startTime":1066.33,"endTime":1068.82,"body":"of prototypes is that they're"},{"speaker":"Matt Graney","startTime":1068.905,"endTime":1069.81,"body":"meant to be thrown away."},{"speaker":"Matt Graney","startTime":1070.425,"endTime":1072.585,"body":"They're not meant to"},{"speaker":"Matt Graney","startTime":1070.425,"endTime":1072.585,"body":"be the basis for what"},{"speaker":"Matt Graney","startTime":1072.585,"endTime":1073.545,"body":"goes into production."},{"speaker":"Matt Graney","startTime":1073.845,"endTime":1076.395,"body":"And if you can do all those"},{"speaker":"Matt Graney","startTime":1073.845,"endTime":1076.395,"body":"things, I think then, you"},{"speaker":"Matt Graney","startTime":1076.395,"endTime":1079.245,"body":"know, the tools are there"},{"speaker":"Matt Graney","startTime":1076.395,"endTime":1079.245,"body":"to really accelerate the"},{"speaker":"Matt Graney","startTime":1079.245,"endTime":1082.575,"body":"way we work and again, to"},{"speaker":"Matt Graney","startTime":1079.245,"endTime":1082.575,"body":"assist with prioritization."},{"speaker":"Hannah Clark","startTime":1082.815,"endTime":1083.625,"body":"Yeah, well said."},{"speaker":"Hannah Clark","startTime":1083.865,"endTime":1086.805,"body":"Well, to close, on an optimistic"},{"speaker":"Hannah Clark","startTime":1083.865,"endTime":1086.805,"body":"note, where would you say are"},{"speaker":"Hannah Clark","startTime":1086.805,"endTime":1090.615,"body":"the most legitimate high value"},{"speaker":"Hannah Clark","startTime":1086.805,"endTime":1090.615,"body":"opportunities for AI to enhance"},{"speaker":"Hannah Clark","startTime":1090.855,"endTime":1092.175,"body":"the work of product managers?"},{"speaker":"Hannah Clark","startTime":1092.445,"endTime":1094.305,"body":"And what advice would you give"},{"speaker":"Hannah Clark","startTime":1092.445,"endTime":1094.305,"body":"to product leaders who really"},{"speaker":"Hannah Clark","startTime":1094.305,"endTime":1097.365,"body":"want to embrace AI in a way"},{"speaker":"Hannah Clark","startTime":1094.305,"endTime":1097.365,"body":"that's thoughtful and without"},{"speaker":"Hannah Clark","startTime":1097.365,"endTime":1099.825,"body":"falling into any of these"},{"speaker":"Hannah Clark","startTime":1097.365,"endTime":1099.825,"body":"traps or potential mask off"},{"speaker":"Hannah Clark","startTime":1099.825,"endTime":1100.695,"body":"moments we've talked about?"},{"speaker":"Matt Graney","startTime":1100.935,"endTime":1103.245,"body":"Yeah, I think"},{"speaker":"Matt Graney","startTime":1100.935,"endTime":1103.245,"body":"really one of the big ones"},{"speaker":"Matt Graney","startTime":1103.245,"endTime":1104.625,"body":"has gotta be around research."},{"speaker":"Matt Graney","startTime":1104.895,"endTime":1107.745,"body":"I think the ability to do"},{"speaker":"Matt Graney","startTime":1104.895,"endTime":1107.745,"body":"competitive research for a"},{"speaker":"Matt Graney","startTime":1107.745,"endTime":1111.135,"body":"PM these days, it's a tool"},{"speaker":"Matt Graney","startTime":1107.745,"endTime":1111.135,"body":"I wish I had in the past."},{"speaker":"Matt Graney","startTime":1111.554,"endTime":1111.915,"body":"Sure."},{"speaker":"Matt Graney","startTime":1111.915,"endTime":1114.284,"body":"I think part of it, of"},{"speaker":"Matt Graney","startTime":1111.915,"endTime":1114.284,"body":"course, is vendors tend"},{"speaker":"Matt Graney","startTime":1114.284,"endTime":1117.075,"body":"to be a lot more public,"},{"speaker":"Matt Graney","startTime":1114.284,"endTime":1117.075,"body":"like most docs for products"},{"speaker":"Matt Graney","startTime":1117.075,"endTime":1120.105,"body":"are available now, but you"},{"speaker":"Matt Graney","startTime":1117.075,"endTime":1120.105,"body":"really need to be doing that."},{"speaker":"Matt Graney","startTime":1120.314,"endTime":1121.635,"body":"That is a huge one."},{"speaker":"Matt Graney","startTime":1121.905,"endTime":1125.804,"body":"I think, obviously, quickly"},{"speaker":"Matt Graney","startTime":1121.905,"endTime":1125.804,"body":"putting together documentation."},{"speaker":"Matt Graney","startTime":1126.075,"endTime":1128.655,"body":"A lot of people talk about"},{"speaker":"Matt Graney","startTime":1126.075,"endTime":1128.655,"body":"writing press releases"},{"speaker":"Matt Graney","startTime":1128.655,"endTime":1130.274,"body":"first, or FAQs first."},{"speaker":"Matt Graney","startTime":1130.274,"endTime":1132.375,"body":"I think this is a"},{"speaker":"Matt Graney","startTime":1130.274,"endTime":1132.375,"body":"great opportunity."},{"speaker":"Matt Graney","startTime":1132.375,"endTime":1135.254,"body":"It might've seemed laborious"},{"speaker":"Matt Graney","startTime":1132.375,"endTime":1135.254,"body":"to do that before, but it's a"},{"speaker":"Matt Graney","startTime":1135.254,"endTime":1136.695,"body":"great way to get started today."},{"speaker":"Matt Graney","startTime":1137.27,"endTime":1140.21,"body":"I think it's about using"},{"speaker":"Matt Graney","startTime":1137.27,"endTime":1140.21,"body":"tools like this to help"},{"speaker":"Matt Graney","startTime":1140.21,"endTime":1141.379,"body":"expand the imagination."},{"speaker":"Matt Graney","startTime":1141.8,"endTime":1143.21,"body":"What am I not thinking about?"},{"speaker":"Matt Graney","startTime":1143.21,"endTime":1143.419,"body":"Right?"},{"speaker":"Matt Graney","startTime":1143.419,"endTime":1146.72,"body":"I think AI, when prompted in the"},{"speaker":"Matt Graney","startTime":1143.419,"endTime":1146.72,"body":"right way, can be really good"},{"speaker":"Matt Graney","startTime":1146.72,"endTime":1148.639,"body":"at identifying some blind spots."},{"speaker":"Matt Graney","startTime":1148.979,"endTime":1151.769,"body":"Yeah, it might hallucinate"},{"speaker":"Matt Graney","startTime":1148.979,"endTime":1151.769,"body":"sometimes, but even outta that,"},{"speaker":"Matt Graney","startTime":1151.769,"endTime":1155.729,"body":"sometimes there can be insights"},{"speaker":"Matt Graney","startTime":1151.769,"endTime":1155.729,"body":"or lateral thinking perhaps"},{"speaker":"Matt Graney","startTime":1155.729,"endTime":1157.049,"body":"that hadn't come to mind."},{"speaker":"Matt Graney","startTime":1157.289,"endTime":1159.509,"body":"You know, I think AI"},{"speaker":"Matt Graney","startTime":1157.289,"endTime":1159.509,"body":"though, can be a bit of a"},{"speaker":"Matt Graney","startTime":1159.509,"endTime":1160.679,"body":"fun house mirror, right?"},{"speaker":"Matt Graney","startTime":1160.86,"endTime":1162.299,"body":"If it's messed up to begin with."},{"speaker":"Matt Graney","startTime":1162.299,"endTime":1164.399,"body":"If you don't have your"},{"speaker":"Matt Graney","startTime":1162.299,"endTime":1164.399,"body":"discipline in place, then"},{"speaker":"Matt Graney","startTime":1164.399,"endTime":1165.719,"body":"it's only gonna make it worse."},{"speaker":"Matt Graney","startTime":1165.965,"endTime":1168.544,"body":"But when done right, it"},{"speaker":"Matt Graney","startTime":1165.965,"endTime":1168.544,"body":"can provide that focus"},{"speaker":"Matt Graney","startTime":1168.544,"endTime":1169.955,"body":"that product managers need."},{"speaker":"Hannah Clark","startTime":1170.165,"endTime":1170.374,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Hannah Clark","startTime":1170.374,"endTime":1171.124,"body":"I tend to agree."},{"speaker":"Hannah Clark","startTime":1171.124,"endTime":1172.495,"body":"Well, Matt, this"},{"speaker":"Hannah Clark","startTime":1171.124,"endTime":1172.495,"body":"has been wonderful."},{"speaker":"Hannah Clark","startTime":1172.495,"endTime":1175.705,"body":"Thank you for sharing all of"},{"speaker":"Hannah Clark","startTime":1172.495,"endTime":1175.705,"body":"your knowledge and for, you"},{"speaker":"Hannah Clark","startTime":1175.705,"endTime":1177.804,"body":"know, sense checking some of"},{"speaker":"Hannah Clark","startTime":1175.705,"endTime":1177.804,"body":"these things that we're seeing"},{"speaker":"Hannah Clark","startTime":1177.804,"endTime":1178.764,"body":"so much of in the space."},{"speaker":"Hannah Clark","startTime":1178.764,"endTime":1179.725,"body":"I really appreciate it."},{"speaker":"Hannah Clark","startTime":1179.904,"endTime":1181.465,"body":"Where can folks follow"},{"speaker":"Hannah Clark","startTime":1179.904,"endTime":1181.465,"body":"your work online?"},{"speaker":"Matt Graney","startTime":1181.584,"endTime":1182.909,"body":"Best to"},{"speaker":"Matt Graney","startTime":1181.584,"endTime":1182.909,"body":"find me just on LinkedIn."},{"speaker":"Matt Graney","startTime":1183.639,"endTime":1186.25,"body":"I seem to be on there more"},{"speaker":"Matt Graney","startTime":1183.639,"endTime":1186.25,"body":"than anywhere else, so"},{"speaker":"Matt Graney","startTime":1186.459,"endTime":1188.139,"body":"look forward to catching"},{"speaker":"Matt Graney","startTime":1186.459,"endTime":1188.139,"body":"up with people there."},{"speaker":"Hannah Clark","startTime":1188.35,"endTime":1189.31,"body":"Awesome,"},{"speaker":"Hannah Clark","startTime":1188.35,"endTime":1189.31,"body":"thank you so much."},{"speaker":"Hannah Clark","startTime":1192.07,"endTime":1193.78,"body":"Next on The Product"},{"speaker":"Hannah Clark","startTime":1192.07,"endTime":1193.78,"body":"Manager Podcast."},{"speaker":"Hannah Clark","startTime":1194.08,"endTime":1196.57,"body":"If you thought this episode"},{"speaker":"Hannah Clark","startTime":1194.08,"endTime":1196.57,"body":"went hard on expectations"},{"speaker":"Hannah Clark","startTime":1196.57,"endTime":1199.51,"body":"versus reality, we are"},{"speaker":"Hannah Clark","startTime":1196.57,"endTime":1199.51,"body":"about to deep dive into LLM"},{"speaker":"Hannah Clark","startTime":1199.51,"endTime":1202.27,"body":"technology in an episode that"},{"speaker":"Hannah Clark","startTime":1199.51,"endTime":1202.27,"body":"will challenge everything"},{"speaker":"Hannah Clark","startTime":1202.27,"endTime":1203.629,"body":"you think you know about AI."},{"speaker":"Hannah Clark","startTime":1204.009,"endTime":1206.565,"body":"While the potential of the"},{"speaker":"Hannah Clark","startTime":1204.009,"endTime":1206.565,"body":"tech is limitless, the current"},{"speaker":"Hannah Clark","startTime":1206.565,"endTime":1210.044,"body":"limitations are far more complex"},{"speaker":"Hannah Clark","startTime":1206.565,"endTime":1210.044,"body":"than we realize, and so are the"},{"speaker":"Hannah Clark","startTime":1210.044,"endTime":1213.284,"body":"impacts on us as both builders"},{"speaker":"Hannah Clark","startTime":1210.044,"endTime":1213.284,"body":"and users of AI products."},{"speaker":"Hannah Clark","startTime":1213.554,"endTime":1215.955,"body":"This one is going to hit"},{"speaker":"Hannah Clark","startTime":1213.554,"endTime":1215.955,"body":"hard, so subscribe now to"},{"speaker":"Hannah Clark","startTime":1215.955,"endTime":1217.034,"body":"jump in with us next time!"}]}