May Is a Lot (And So Is Motherhood Right Now)

This week feels like a lot… and if you’re a mom, you already know why.

School events, sports, work, birthdays, the invisible mental load… and somehow we’re also supposed to slow down and “enjoy it.”

I sat down with someone I know to talk about what motherhood actually feels like right now. Jessica James, a mom of three, full time career, and someone who looks like she has it all together.

We got into:

•  the mental tabs that never close 
•  mom guilt (even when you did everything right) 
•  middle school, phones, and the pressure that comes with it 
•  trying to be present while also doing everything
•  and how grief and motherhood can exist at the same time 

This is one of those conversations that feels like a coffee catch-up… but also the kind that makes you feel less alone in your own life. 

https://www.instagram.com/navigatingbetweenthelines/

Transcript

SPEAKER_03 0:00

Okay, here we go. Mother's Day week. Hey guys, what's up? Welcome back to Navigating Between the Lines. Happy May. I asked listeners what moms are feeling right now. And the answers were very accurate. I feel like May sucks. Exhausted, overwhelmed, also proud because moms are superheroes. It's school events, sports, end of year, everything. Work doesn't slow down, life doesn't slow down. And somehow we're all supposed to be like reflect and feel deeply and celebrate. So today's conversation felt like the perfect one because I wanted someone who was actually in all of this right now, not talking about motherhood from a distance, but living in it real time. So I'm sitting down with someone I know in real life. We have kids the same age. We are socially connected. And my favorite is we are Instagram friends, active Instagram friends, Jessica James, mom of three girls, full-time career, traveling for work freshly back from Costa Rica. Your pics looked amazing. And somehow still showing up to everything. School events, sports, Tuesday night golf league. Trying, trying, gathered, side of fries energy. I respect it. Yep. And wine. I love that. And what I'm always drawn to is you just feel like someone who is doing a lot, but still really present in your life. The mom, the wearer of all hats. So in honor of Mother's Day, we are gonna have a little chit chat, having a fun conversation about all of it. Jess, welcome. Well, thank you for having me. Yeah, I'm super excited. And hang on. Were you just in the ER on Friday? On Friday night. And you're here. Yep. Not even 48 hours later.

SPEAKER_05 1:58

Are we good? Well, we are good. We are good. We're uh yeah, it was a fun start to the weekend. Not really, but that's how I feel like I have to be all the time. It's like something happens, but you're like, I still have to do all the things. And my husband was giving me a hard time yesterday because he's like, You're supposed to be resting. Stop putting away the dishes. I'll do the laundry. He's like, just lay down. And I'm like, but there's so many things to always do.

SPEAKER_03 2:27

To always do. Yeah. And yeah. What are you watching right now?

SPEAKER_05 2:32

So we just finished Landman. Yeah. Um, and I feel like I also met the real life landman in Costa Rica, one of my colleagues' um husbands, which was hilarious. Um, yeah, that we just finished that like Friday.

SPEAKER_03 2:50

Wait, like where do they live? Who the husband?

SPEAKER_05 2:53

They are actually in Long Island.

SPEAKER_03 2:55

Okay.

SPEAKER_05 2:56

Um cowboy hat. And I no cowboy hat, but the constant, just super dry humor. Um and I told him, I'm like, hey, Sean, you actually remind me of the main character in Lady Advanced. And he was like, has he's like, yeah, I've heard that before. So it was the first time I'd ever met him. Yeah. Um, but I was super honest with him, and it was really funny. But yeah, so we just finished that. Um, Courtney and I go back and forth on different shows we like. I usually kind of let him pick what series or whatever we're gonna start watching, and he hates finishing things and it drives me nuts because he usually picks what we're gonna watch. Like we agree on it, and he uh never finishes anything. So I'm like, stop picking these shows. Like, I want to know what happens. And he always is like, I feel like I know it's gonna happen. So like let's move on to the next over it, yes.

SPEAKER_03 3:55

So yeah. Do you ever watch any shows by yourself?

SPEAKER_05 4:00

Honestly, I used to watch a bunch of just HG TV. Um, you know, and I do when I'm working out, watch shows kind of on my own, but I don't know. I I feel like I just don't have time to really like sit down ever and just watch a show on my own. So when I'm traveling, I do, but like a movie or something. Exactly.

SPEAKER_03 4:24

Yeah. Yeah. Are you a read before bed person or a late night scroll? Um, I'm a late night scroll.

SPEAKER_05 4:31

I think I just need to do the most just mindless things, and that's what I do. Yeah. Um, every once in a while I'll get into a book. It's usually like self-help books. I I literally am reading something called the Balancing Act right now. Oh, yeah. Um yeah, but I really just it's a mindless scroll and I'm so tired at the end of the day.

SPEAKER_03 4:54

And there's no mind space left.

SPEAKER_05 4:55

Nothing. I am at full capacity. What's your um algorithm like? Like what do you got on there? Um, I would say a lot of skincare, beauty stuff. Yeah, for sure. Um, cooking, um, fashion.

SPEAKER_04 5:13

Yeah, that's that's pretty much it. No conspiracies. No conspiracies. Okay.

SPEAKER_03 5:19

No. No. I love that. Well, um, I was laughing because I screenshotted your story. Would you like post like last week something about May? Welcome to Maycember, where moms have 47 events in 12 days. Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 5:34

And you expect and you're expected to be at every single one of them, even volunteering. Um and work is crazy. The industry that I'm in is very busy in the spring. Um, and we have two birthdays in the family in May. So it's like Courtney's birthday, Emerson's birthday, Mother's Day, all the end of school stuff. And my industry is like at, you know, is really extremely busy in May.

SPEAKER_03 6:08

So I think there's two sides of it, you know, because it's like one side. That's what like we want to be here for all of that stuff, right? And that's what we're made to do. And we have these families and these kids that are like looking at us. I wouldn't I I actually came from a game from a baseball game. That's what you were saying today, and then I'm gonna like run back. I wouldn't I don't not want to do those things. No, but I think it's also okay sometimes to be like, it's a lot, like it's just a lot, a lot. Yep. And you have three girls. Yep. Okay, full-time job, plus your full-time job. Yeah. What's been the most like okay, where you're saying this? Okay, this is a lot moment for you lately.

SPEAKER_05 6:53

Um lately. What has been?

SPEAKER_01 6:56

Hmm.

SPEAKER_05 6:58

I would say April was crazy for us too. Um, because it's spring break. Yeah. Um I usually do all the planning for like family trips. I'm just like a type A person, a control freak, and I kind of take that upon myself, which you know, Courtney would totally do it, but I like to plan everything. No, I plan everything too. Everything. Yeah. Um so planning that and just making sure everything went great because we also had our neighbors that came with us too with their kids. So, you know, planning that and making sure everybody has a great time. Um, and then on top of that, we had another trip that I won for work that was like 10 days later. So honestly, the week in between coming home from spring break, kind of getting everybody back on their normal schedules, routines, unpacking, all that, trying to fit in a ton of stuff between kids' stuff, work stuff, and then getting ready to leave again. And I know it's like first world problems, right? I going to Costa Rica, yeah, but it's life. It's a lot. Trying to like plan all the things too for my girls, for my mom who watched the girls, so she knows everybody's schedule. And I think my big moment where I realized this is a lot, and wow, I cannot juggle everything was while we were in Costa Rica. Um, well, you know, because Chloe's a fourth grader. Yeah. Uh, I have a fourth grader too. The picnic with the special person. So we were gonna be gone during that. So I lined everything up. My mom was gonna be her special person. Um, I thought I confirmed the date. Oh no. And everything. And I got a text from Cam's friend's mom, who showed me a picture of them all sitting together on Wednesday, which I thought picnic with your special person was Thursday. Oh no. And I realized I told my mom the wrong day. And I'm in Costa Rica, like, there's nothing you can do. My goodness. So, you know what? The superhero that day was Cam's teacher. Oh she realized she called my mom because I gave the teachers a heads up that we were out of the country and grandma was in charge. And she realized that I had given my mom the wrong date that morning. And so she arranged to have Emerson, our kindergartner, be Cam's special person.

SPEAKER_00 9:50

How cute.

SPEAKER_05 9:51

And she ordered them their lunches from Starbucks, had them door-dashed to school. And she literally like saved my, you know, like I um, so I think it was that moment that I was like, wow, you know, juggling everything.

SPEAKER_03 10:10

Well, because it's so much to get everything in order. When you have kids in school, yeah, I feel like that's one of the things. And when you travel when the kids are younger, don't you feel like it was easier? It because you're not to and from and back and forth than after school stuff or the during school stuff because these types of things happen all the time.

SPEAKER_05 10:32

Oh yeah. Oh yeah. But I had this horrible mom guilt. But thankfully, you know, our village, my village includes grandparents, you know, our nanny, who still helps out, even though we don't have anybody home, you know, anymore. Um, and the teachers, because yeah, she was a rock star.

SPEAKER_03 10:53

I and really when you think about it at the end of the day, like it's like it's okay.

SPEAKER_05 10:58

And that's what Courtney said. Yeah, he's like not the end of the world. But to me, I was like, oh, you know, I didn't want her to feel like she was forgotten.

SPEAKER_03 11:07

So do you feel like it's the schedule and the mental load or just the constant like being needed? That's the hardest.

SPEAKER_05 11:22

I think for me, it's a little bit of everything. Um but the mental load, it's there's always something in the back of my mind, like trying to stay ahead of the game with everybody's needs. And it doesn't even, it's not even the mom mental. I mean, it is the mom mental load, but then the work mental load.

SPEAKER_03 11:46

It's like I always say the amount of tabs that are open in my brain. And I can't even help it. And that's coming from someone, you know, I'm not working full time right now, and I feel like there's this pressure. Is it just me? Tell me it's not just me. No, you've got to be like fully present, also high achieving, also not drop the ball on every on everything. Yeah. And it's I go to bed at night and I'm like, oh yeah, tab city. Oh yeah.

SPEAKER_05 12:15

My desktop, like on my laptop, is just so many things are saved. Nothing is very organized. And I feel like that's what my brain looks like. That's what your brain looks like. Yes. And even when my kids they'll grab my phone every once in a while and they're like, Mom, you have like a hundred, like that you're swiping up, trying to close everything out. And it's funny because I'm like, that's that's my life.

SPEAKER_03 12:40

I mean, I get it. Yeah. Where do you give yourself a break? Who are you working on?

SPEAKER_05 12:48

Work in progress. It's a work in progress. I'm constantly trying to find like me time, and you know, I'm getting better, even with scheduling myself with my friends for like like I mentioned before, the simulator golf league I did this summer or this winter on Tuesdays, just because it's like two hours in the evening that I can just go and have fun and just decompress a little bit and not worry about anything. Yeah, and you deserve to do that. And just kind of some alone time. I love that.

SPEAKER_03 13:23

Yeah. Can we talk about middle school? Oh my gosh. So it's an adjustment. It's an adjustment. Oh, yes. I feel like being a middle school mom, and I've heard this. I don't know if you heard this, it's like a different level. And I'm like, okay, well, it's just like one grade. Yeah. You know, there's still your, I mean, your baby. Not really, but you know, there's still little. What has surprised you the most about this age?

SPEAKER_04 13:54

I would say.

SPEAKER_05 13:57

So we were very nervous about middle school, like very nervous. I know you have a boy in middle school. I have a girl. Um, I feel like there are certain things like that girls are dealing with and then that boys are dealing with in this middle school, you know, adjustment. And then hearing it all. The friend groups, and just yeah, I think what surprised me the most with the transition to middle school. Um it's been tough, but I think I expected it to be harder on my middle schooler, honestly. I didn't love middle school as a kid, but I had some issues, just you know, kind of the mean girl thing in in middle school. Um, Maddie has done quite well with that, but what I've noticed is there's just so many changes of like friend groups constantly. Right? Constantly. But she Courtney and I have talked about this. We thought it would be a little bit harder. Um, the early morning, like how early the they have to wake up is and Maddie will sleep until noon on the weekend. So I have a She does. Oh yeah. Oh yeah. She Maddie loves her rest. Like in the summers, she sets an alarm for about 10:30 in the morning. So she actually wakes up.

SPEAKER_03 15:27

Does she take the bus to school?

SPEAKER_05 15:29

She does. Okay. What time does it pick up? So the bus picks up at about 7.05.

SPEAKER_02 15:34

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 15:35

She sets her alarm for 5 45. Is she getting ready? She gets ready and she it's just so early for my kiddo who hates being up early.

SPEAKER_03 15:49

Um, but yeah, she Well, that's the difference between boys and girls because William when I say that he rolls out of bed. No, I'm serious. It's like I go down, I get him up, I'm like, it's 6 50. He's like, Oh my gosh. Okay. And then I go down at 7. I'm like, it's 7. He's like, I'm gonna get up at 7.02. Does he take the bus too? He doesn't because it would come really early. Yeah. And I do a loop. So I like we leave typically like 7:10. So I'm telling you, he gets out of bed at 7.03. Oh my gosh, throws clothes on, brushes his teeth. I every morning I'm like, Do you want breakfast? He's like, No. No. Because I mean, they get something at school. And he's not great at that time when he's just trying to wake up. He throws a hat on, you know, he like doesn't care and we're out the door in like six minutes.

SPEAKER_05 16:38

Oh my see, Maddie comes into the room and she's like, today I want my hair like cramped or curled. Could you help me with that? And I'm like in there crimping her hair on Thursday morning. So there's this whole routine to her getting ready. And then I usually will make breakfast for her. It starts early in our house now. I'm I'm bummed. I can't sleep in until you know 6:45 anymore. I'm now up at about six when she's up. So I can make sure she's staying ready to go. Like ready to go. And yeah.

SPEAKER_03 17:12

So does she still tell you everything or is she getting a little bit more selective?

SPEAKER_05 17:16

Uh I think she's getting a little bit more selective. I feel like if I ask her certain things that I really want to know, she will tell me.

SPEAKER_03 17:23

But yeah, I think the top going through these change, the top like these questions. Like, what's just what's like a wild subject that you're like talking about right now?

SPEAKER_05 17:38

Well, I mean, right now, truthfully, this I mean, this whole puberty thing, that conversation is what's going on constantly in our house. And we have three girls. So, like the younger girls are also like listening, and Maddie's like yellow, she's she'll hear them around the corner. She's like, girl, stop! Like, yeah, so that's a weird way.

SPEAKER_03 18:00

Like, probably, I don't know, if you some could argue too open. Yeah, you know, we just talk about everything, but even I'm like, sometimes I'm like, I was not prepared for that. Yeah for these types of questions. Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 18:13

And I do think Maddie is a little bit more, she keeps to herself when it comes to that type of stuff. Whereas my fourth grader asks all the questions. Yeah. So sometimes I have to ask Maddie some like leading questions to get her to where, you know, to open up and to talk to me about. Um, because yeah, the personalities are so different.

SPEAKER_03 18:37

Isn't it so wild? Yeah. What's something you've learned as a mom recently that you didn't expect?

SPEAKER_04 18:48

That's a great question. Um that I just can't do all the things.

SPEAKER_05 18:55

Yeah. Honestly. I feel like there was a point in time where I was like, I I can do this. I got this, I got this, I got this, I won't drop any balls. And I think it's just it's the older they get, the harder it's getting.

SPEAKER_02 19:06

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 19:07

With like you said, when they're younger, it's like you drop them off at daycare or you have a nanny that comes in, whatever, and every day is like kind of the same. Yeah. No, it is no, that's it's true. It's I mean, they might not be sleeping at night, so you're tired, you know, when they're younger and whatnot. But um I feel like every day is different now based on who's got practice, who's got this, who and it's birthday parties, activities with friends, art night at school, uh, talent show tryouts or tonight, like the chauffeuring alone is insane. Yeah. So that part of it is where I've I've realized, especially with three, that to us I think was like a game changer. Like two to three was harder. I know some people say that the third or the fourth, like it's already chaos. So you but I think from two to three was hard, even though our third is like the easiest kid ever. It's just well, it's yeah, she's the easiest. But I think just adding another, you know, schedule now that she's old enough to start like really doing activities.

SPEAKER_03 20:20

For sure. Yeah. Okay. Something that you might not agree with, but from the outside, like me, you to me always look like you have it together. Like, I'm serious. You're working, traveling, showing up, your skin looks amazing. Oh my gosh. Well, I'm in skincare, so I hopefully Yeah, but you always just look so good. And I think a lot of moms could look at that and go, How?

SPEAKER_04 20:51

Well, I love that I look like I have it all together because there are I don't feel like I do.

SPEAKER_01 20:58

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 20:59

Um truthfully. So everybody has a breaking point. I feel like, you know, there are plenty of nights that I get home and I am just totally overwhelmed. Cashed. Yes, cashed. And I'm trying to get better at that, especially with just like the kids at home. And there are days that I've just had a crazy day at work, and then the kids are mom, mom, mom, mom, mom, mom. And I'm like, I'm trying to, you know, cook dinner. I've still got emails coming in. I'm trying to finish up stuff on the computer, and they need this and need that. And, you know, we all have those times where we just are like, I need to go upstairs in the closet and just sit in there for like a few minutes and just like and just take a couple deep breaths and realize everything's gonna be okay, and just, you know, kind of have a little readjustment.

SPEAKER_03 21:52

Well, I think it's good to know because I think everybody feels that. But do you feel like you can't talk about that stuff? Or do you feel like you have a good group? Group of people who, you know, you can like okay, this I do have a good group of people.

SPEAKER_05 22:07

Like um my group of friends from college were still quite close. And, you know, uh two of them in particular, like we've got kids that are going kind of going through the same thing, and everybody's working full time, and so we kind of vent about just you can lead on each other when you need it. Yeah, yep.

SPEAKER_03 22:33

Which I think is really good. Not everybody has that, yeah.

SPEAKER_05 22:36

So I think that's so important, at least for me. And I'll, you know, have these conversations with my mom too. Cause I grew up with my mom worked full time. I'm one of three kiddos too. My dad owned a practice, so he was gone all the time. And so my mom did the same thing. So I kind of watched that growing up. So yeah, yeah. So I look at it.

SPEAKER_03 23:01

No, I think it's kind of crazy right now because I'm like my spot where I'm at all the time is like, wait, how do I have kids these ages? I that's all I keep saying. Yeah. Is like, how am I? Like, I feel 29. Yeah. One. Right. So and you look 29. Thank you. The skincare, it's the skincare that I use. Um, no, but it's just like this wild, yeah, like my brain is always exploding. I'm like, wait, what? How I'm in charge of this, or I'm doing this, or I'm watching, you know, these games, or whatever it is.

SPEAKER_05 23:38

And it's like, yeah, I blinked, and their kids are older. I know. I think Courtney and I have been talking about that recently too with Maddie. I mean, she's almost as tall as me now. She she has bigger feet than I do. She's like a sized woman's 10, just about. That is insane. And I'm like, how did this happen? And our baby is gonna be seven in a couple weeks. And I'm like, we just brought her home from the hospital. I don't understand. And she's asking me for a cell phone and tips on her nails for her seventh, you know, birthday. Like hard past. How did this happen? And nobody else in our house has tips, and the other girls do not have cell phones. So where is this coming from? But yeah, it's just a it's wild.

SPEAKER_03 24:23

Because I don't feel like I'm old enough to have a No, that's how I feel all the time. But you know, like you're saying you talk to your mom about it. I'm like, yeah, I feel like that's the one thing I'm always thinking about right now is I'm like, okay, my mom did all of this. So she did it. And I'm like, oh, I just and she made it look easy. Yeah. Right. And so I always I think I feel so much more for our moms that did this too. Because I'm like, what? Okay. Yep. I don't know. One, um, this is not in my little section here, but because you brought up the phones. Yeah. Oh my gosh, you and I talk about this. We do talk about this and no phones, right? No, we're not doing it. No phones. Okay, good. I'm like, I love that. And you know, the constant pressure of the cell phones, these kids. I'm just Do you feel like Maddie's getting a little bit? I feel like William will say to me now, he's like, I get it, mom. Like he said this to me because all these group chats and stuff, he's like, Mom, I get it. I'm glad I don't have.

SPEAKER_05 25:26

And Maddie is not quite there. Not quite there. No, okay. I mean, when we really sit down and we talk about the reasons why. Um, I mean, she does nod her head, like she agrees with it. But then a couple weeks later, it's like, well, you know, so-and-so who didn't have a phone, they just got one now too. And it's just this pressure.

SPEAKER_03 25:48

Does it make you upset? I don't want to like trend lightly here, but we are having a conversation. Does it ever make you upset with other parents? Kind of.

SPEAKER_05 26:00

Because the then the pressure comes home to us, and it's like, no, I don't care what's going on with other families. Like everybody, you know, have they have their own rules, and the rules in our house are you guys are not getting phones at this point.

SPEAKER_03 26:18

Like, well, and I think my biggest thing too is I'm like, we're in a place right now. I mean, we have the amount of information at our fingertips is so beyond. And I think I'm just always surprised. I find myself surprised, and I really am trying not to judge. Like it's not like from a judging place, but I'm like, I why did you get them? Why did you get your kid a phone? Because everywhere you look, that there's a new study coming out saying how terrible it is for them. I know, you know? So I think that's where I'm at. I'm kind of like, okay, I just have to separate it. And I really just tell my kids, we t we talk about it all the time too. Yeah. I'm like, I'm gonna get a flip phone. I mean, I've been saying I'm getting a flip phone for like the last year. Yeah, I 2026. I keep saying it, like it might happen by the end of the year. But I'm like, we have a house phone. It was the best thing we could have done. Yeah. Because, and it's so cute to hear these kids answer the phone. Yeah, yeah. I mean, I remember when you were a kid, oh yeah, it was the wall and we answer had an answer. Toronto residents, this is Maggie. Yeah, you know? I know, I know.

SPEAKER_05 27:27

I just to each their own for sure with everybody has their own thing that they're comfortable with as far as rules with the phone. But at this point, we are just not comfortable. I mean, there are times when you know the kids have practice and they're at school, or and you it would be nice for them to have a phone for certain situations, but they do have Apple watches. So Maddie can call me and say, okay, you know, I'm done with talent show tryouts now. Like to do it. Yeah. Yeah. Um, and they don't have as much, you know, information at their fingers with the watch. And that's what I keep telling them. Like, you guys have the watch, so you can call me, I can call you, but yeah, you don't need that. You've got an iPad that you can have your little group chats, yeah. Not feel left out when, yeah, but I just it makes me nervous.

SPEAKER_03 28:20

Well, I love that we're on the same page about it. Yes. So thank you.

unknown 28:24

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 28:25

One, and you guys should be too. Everyone should be on the same page. Yes. Yes. Okay. One thing I've always said is we are moms, but that's not my only title. And I know another reason I've always, you know, been drawn to like your personality and all the things that you do is because you haven't lost yourself, you know, and just like being that mom. I know, and that's not like a judgment to other people, but I know those early years, everyone's surviving. But I want to hear how you prioritize. Like you still have your things. Like you said, you still prioritize your mean time me time. Yeah. You do the Tuesday night golfs, the salad and fries. Have you always done that? The side of fries? Is that like your thing?

SPEAKER_05 29:11

Yes. So cob salad, side of fries. Yeah. No, I know your I know your order, which is funny.

SPEAKER_03 29:19

It's all about balance. It's all about balance. Um, how would you say you prioritize that? Like still, you know, feel like yourself.

SPEAKER_05 29:28

You know, I think it also comes from, I mean, Courtney, my husband, we're on the same page, I think, with like prioritizing, you know, he'll go out and do his, you know, golf league or time with his friends too. Um, and he really encourages me to do that because it you so it's so easy to fall into um kind of that space where you don't prioritize your needs. It's so easy.

SPEAKER_03 30:04

So easy. I'm just gonna stay home. I have this to do. I'm gonna finish this. Well, it's it's not really gonna work. I'm not feeling well.

SPEAKER_05 30:11

And I will say, we are also in May. So, you know, when it comes to the kids' activities and things that I've got going on with work, I I'm probably not gonna have my Tuesday nights, at least with my, you know, golf friends, because it's the craziest time of the year for us. But I really, really, really try. And I think Courtney pushes me to try to still do those things. But it is, it's so easy. I feel like if he wasn't cheering me on to go and do those things, I'd get stuck in that rut of all the things I have to do. That's a really good answer.

SPEAKER_03 30:49

So I hope everybody has a supportive partner like that. Yeah. What are the things you won't give up no matter how busy life gets?

SPEAKER_05 30:57

Getting my nails done. Oh. Yep. I get my nails done about every two and a half weeks. Um, I would say, I mean, I'm in the beauty industry. So always getting my tox treatment, my disport done. Yeah, super important.

SPEAKER_03 31:16

Um which again, another thing, like, yeah, normalize that. Like, I love like being at this age, you gotta do whatever you want to do that like makes you feel good. And I believe if you want to stay home all day, stay home all day. Yeah. If you wanna go do stuff like do you just gotta feel like your best self. Yes.

SPEAKER_05 31:36

And for me, those things help me feel like my best self.

SPEAKER_01 31:40

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 31:40

Um, so those are a couple things that I definitely won't give up. Um, and then once the summer actually shows up here in Michigan, since it's so freezing right now. Um, I don't give up my golf time. Like even if I can't do Tuesdays nights with friends, I'll usually try to get out once a week. Good for you. Um, because once I'm out there, I usually enjoy it.

SPEAKER_03 32:05

You do, unless I'm playing just awful. Well, I'm oh I that's me.

SPEAKER_05 32:09

I don't I don't really enjoy it. Well, it's nice to just get out, have a drink, be outside, and just have a few that's how I feel about it.

SPEAKER_03 32:21

Just like I I love to sit on that patio. Yes. And the social time because sometimes it is, you know, that is the only time that week that you're hanging with those people. So yeah, I think that's good. What's your? I know you said earlier that sometimes you just have to go up into the closet, but what's your I need a minute move?

SPEAKER_05 32:42

Usually my I need a minute, I will go up and you know, hide in the closet for a couple minutes, or I'll just go take a shower and tell the girls like mom needs five minutes. Yeah. Just five minutes, please. Yeah. And they usually get that now with the ages that they're at.

SPEAKER_03 33:02

But my favorite line is I'm off the clock. I say it. I go I'll say kitchens closed. Mom's off the clock. Like you gotta figure it out.

SPEAKER_05 33:10

Yep. Yeah. Yes. I because is especially at night when they're not wanting to go to bed and it's now like 9 15, and they're like, Will you come back in and tuck me in? I'm like, after nine o'clock, you guys, it's me time. Like I'm tapped. I'm tapped. I'm at full capacity, and no.

SPEAKER_03 33:32

And when you're showing up, I think that's okay. That's what I always tell my kids. I'm like, it's not I've been with you and I've been doing all the things. Doing all these things, and we've been communicating. I've heard, you know, Chloe tells me everything. Like I always say, like, she gets home and she doesn't stop talking. Yeah. No, for real. And I love that. Yeah. I don't want it to change, but sometimes I'm like, okay, like I can't hear. And that is so funny.

SPEAKER_05 33:57

My fourth grader won't say anything until I, you know, we're she's open, but she's she's definitely an introvert. And so yeah, that's so funny. Oh, it's so good.

SPEAKER_03 34:10

Well, I feel like this time of year, May, spring, all of it, makes you reflect a little bit more. And I know this Mother's Day is a little bit different for you. Your grandma passed away recently. I'm very sorry. Thank you.

SPEAKER_05 34:28

Yeah, so she passed away in August, and she was like my person. Thank you for bringing the Kleenex. Okay. Um, yeah, I mean, I'm so lucky that I had two grandmas that I was super close with. Um, a lot of them passed away like over 10 years ago. But my Nana, who passed away recently, she yeah, was like my person. She's the first one who I think I was probably 10 years old. And she took me to her appointment at a plastic surgery center to get her first chemical peel. Come on. Um, and it's so funny because, you know, I was in elementary school and I would spend a lot of time with her in the summer because they lived here in Grand Rapids. So, and then I ended up going into like the beauty industry, which is so funny. But she was the first one who kind of introduced me to that. Um, she was always really into fashion. She loved Lee's and Jacobson's and um Rogers Department Store. And yeah, so she was my person, and she also taught me how to golf. Um I just I played with her constantly. Um, and she was the one who introduced me to golf at a really young age. So we played in tournaments together, and uh yeah, and she was know how hard that is.

SPEAKER_03 36:02

I'm really sorry. And it's not there's no time frame on that. Is Mother's Day coming up? Did you guys like how are you navigating that?

SPEAKER_05 36:15

You know, so she was 93, she lived an incredible life. Um, my grandpa is still living. We actually just had brunch with him this morning. We usually see him every weekend. Um I guess we haven't even decided yet how we're gonna like navigate it because it's our, you know. First one.

SPEAKER_03 36:36

Yeah, our first one. Um you can be so like feel so lucky, like you're like, okay, 93, like what a blessing. And yeah, that's what an amazing life. And it's still it's like almost like an end of an era. Yeah. Because it's everything changes when like the matriarch, you know. What are their what traditions do you want to keep like for your girls, like in Pass down that she?

SPEAKER_05 37:07

Um, I mean, I would do a lot of sleepovers at their house in East Grand Rapids, and we would watch Golden Girls and Murder She Wrote. And it's so funny because right after she passed, I introduced the girls to Golden Girls. Oh, yeah. And they love it. It's so funny. Um that was kind of something that we always did. So I introduced them to that. Um growing up, she always cooked a lot of different meals, we're Jewish, so she had a lot of different great meals that she would cook. And I'm not that great of a cook, to be honest. So I wouldn't take my mom makes a lot of Nana's recipes. I'm the worst. So I like that's not really my thing. Courtney prefers cooking a lot more than I do. I do it as a survival, like I have to cook. I have to have a meal. Yeah. Um, but you know, we talk about Nana all the time. Yeah. And actually, I was just talking to Emerson, our six-year-old, who's got a birthday coming up. And she said one of the things, she actually said this today, that she wants for her birthday is a picture of her in Nana framed for like in her bedroom. So I love that my girls will remember her. Yeah. Um, that they're old enough to like have these memories. Um, we visited them a lot in Palm Springs. They had a house out there, and the girls all have been out there. So yeah, I think Nana loved shopping, fashion, golf, bridge, which I've never played. I would have really loved Nana. Yeah. So what's her name? Marilyn. Marilyn. Yeah. So yeah. But she was a heck of a golfer. And whenever I'm out playing, I think of her.

SPEAKER_03 39:01

I love that. So you gotta carry her with you. It's like hard as it is, and people say that, and it's like so annoying, but it's you do. Yeah. Like, cause I do think you get to a p place where you're like, no, no, no, they are they're still here. Yep.

SPEAKER_04 39:18

In everything that you do. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 39:25

And even when I'm out there playing and I'm playing horribly, I'm like, There's even sayings I'll say out on the golf course. Nana always would say, um, everything breaks towards the water. So just remember that. Okay. Everything breaks towards the water. And I'm a horrible putter. And she would always say to me, just envision there's like a big bucket around the hole. Like, and just try to get into that bucket. And I'll be out there and I my putt is like horrible, way past this imaginary bucket. And I'll say in my head, like, because she would say to me, gosh, Jessica, that's a big bucket when we would play together. And I'm like, sorry, Deanna.

SPEAKER_02 40:08

Oh, that is so funny.

SPEAKER_05 40:09

Yep. So there's just these little sayings that she would always, and when I read her eulogy, a lot of it was about our golf game together.

SPEAKER_04 40:20

So I'm glad that you had all that.

SPEAKER_03 40:22

Yeah. So what do you want for Mother's Day? Oh my gosh.

SPEAKER_05 40:29

Always what I, you know, I know so many moms are like, I just want a day alone and I want to, you know, night in the hotel room by myself watching Netflix and wine or room service. Um honestly, I like I love being with the kids for Mother's Day. And I think part of that too is because I do work outside the home. I I'm not with them during the week. And in my job right now, I have a lot of things that are kind of like outside of normal business hours, kind of evening commitments. So just like a nice brunch with the kids and Courtney. Um, I mean, and I would say for one day, like, hey girls, if you need these little things that you're constantly used to asking me for, just go ask dad. Yeah. No, that's a good one. Yeah, that's really what I want. I love that. That's maybe nine holes if the weather's nice to go play nine holes. I hope. Because this weather is ridiculous for me.

SPEAKER_03 41:36

I love it.

SPEAKER_05 41:37

What are you asking for for Mother's Day?

SPEAKER_03 41:39

Well, um, so I we're actually getting out of town, just like me and a couple friends this. Yeah, just like a quick getaway, like Wednesday to Saturday. We did it last year. Yeah. And I love it too. I like to be with my kids too. Yeah. Um, so it'll be Sunday, just like a brunch. Yep. Relax. Yep. Same thing. I don't want to like open, I don't want to like cook a meal or do anything. No, that's that's which I don't have to typically have to, but you know, sometimes it's just like yeah, like you said, if you don't make a plan, it's easy to just roll right into the normal routine. Like, oh no, I'll just like make this breakfast or this. And then it turns into a morning room. I know. And yeah, I do. I like to just chill. Yeah. Yeah. Same. Okay. Early morning girl, or are you sleeping in?

SPEAKER_05 42:31

I think I'm just forced to be an early morning girl because of how like life. Um, and that's when I do my workouts. So I would say early morning girl.

SPEAKER_03 42:45

A celebrity that you'd want to have a drink with. Oh my gosh.

SPEAKER_04 42:51

Putting you on the spot. A celebrity that I would want to have a drink with.

SPEAKER_05 42:58

Yeah, I don't maybe Sarah Jessica Parker. Oh, okay. Um yeah.

SPEAKER_03 43:07

Sarah Jessica Parker's. Like for her or for like Carrie Bradshaw? For Carrie Bradshaw. Yeah. Um did you watch it?

SPEAKER_05 43:17

I'm not like did you watch? I watched most of them with my girlfriends like years ago. I feel like now we're saying this, like finding a series that you love. Um I just like don't have the time right now. And I do feel like when Courtney and I watch something, most of the time it's like a half an hour and we're falling asleep. Um Do you rewatch stuff? Is that what you do? We'll rewatch stuff too. Yeah. Yeah. But I also feel like I don't know, movies and a lot of things, like they're not as good as they used to be. Uhundred. Like I don't know what it is, but I'm like, are these movies like are the budgets cut so much that we just I don't know.

SPEAKER_04 44:07

I'm yeah the current song on repeat. Oh my gosh. Current song on repeat.

SPEAKER_05 44:18

Um, so hard. I listen to a lot of podcasts. I mean, I drive so much. Totally. Um I love crime jump junkies. Yeah, yeah. I mean, I I drove like 650 miles last week. So I was listening to a lot of crime junkies.

SPEAKER_03 44:43

Isn't that what the podcast name is? Uh yes. Okay. Yeah. It's real life. Like, because I know there's so many crime podcasts, but that's when it is. Crime junkies. Crime junkies.

SPEAKER_05 44:53

Okay, we're gonna call them, call them out. Yep. So I've been listening to a bunch of that, of those. I get really into those. I've been listening to a few different podcasts on raising a teen daughter. Yeah, very informative. Um yeah. I mean, I love Taylor Swift. I will be honest. I love Taylor Swift. So, and so do my girls. So I would say um that's what you would find if you looked on my Apple Music. Okay. The most of. So yeah.

SPEAKER_03 45:24

Would you say you're an overthinker, or are you more like it is what it is? I'm an overthinker. Yeah. Yes. I mean, same. Yeah. Sorry that that's the way that it is. I know. It's exhausting. Ugh, terrible. Yeah. One food you'll never give up. Food or beverage? Both. Wine. Yeah. Um. Yeah. And French fries. Okay. That's good. What's the last thing you Googled? Be honest.

SPEAKER_05 45:58

How to get rid of moles in the yard. And now I feel like I'm using Chat GPT more. Oh, yeah. Um, yeah, Courtney discovered after we got back from Costa Rica that it seems like we have moles in the yard that we've never had a problem with. And so mole busters. Oh my gosh, the company. Okay. We have somebody coming out on Wednesday, but that is probably what we you would find on Google, what I just Googled and chat, like GTB. That's so funny. Yep. And also food poisoning. That was those two things yesterday. Google those.

SPEAKER_04 46:33

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 46:33

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 46:34

Glad you're back. Yeah. I'm back. I'm back. Okay. Think about all the moms in your life, friend moms, like whatever.

SPEAKER_04 46:42

One thing every mom needs to hear this week. That we are all just doing the best that we can.

SPEAKER_05 46:53

Like in no judgment. Yeah. Literally no judgment. Um I just think in that we're harder on ourselves than anybody. Um. Just no idea. Yep. Yeah. Yeah. Like we're we're all in the same struggle.

SPEAKER_03 47:16

A hundred percent. A hundred percent. And so or we've all been there, we've all experienced something, and better a community than not.

SPEAKER_05 47:25

Yep.

unknown 47:26

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 47:26

That's what I always try to tell myself and tell my girls too. I'm like, give your give your sister a little grace. Like, like just we're all fighting the same fight. This one won't put their shoes on. This one refuses to shower.

SPEAKER_03 47:42

This like it's yeah. Yeah. Yes. I love it. Okay, before we wrap, do you have a question that you want to ask me?

SPEAKER_04 47:56

Yes, but I don't want to make you cry.

SPEAKER_03 47:58

Oh, but I mean, I feel like I cry a deer all the time. By myself, I'm usually by myself too. I mean, so what do you do on Mother's Day, like in honor of your mom? Yeah, no, that's okay. That's a good question. I think like I avoided it, you know, like the first year. And then as I said earlier, like this will be the second year, kind of like getting out of town. Okay. And it's not even like an avoidance, even though like I because I am an avoider. Yeah. Like I would rather just like I do the same thing. I'm not gonna think about it. Like she's alive. Like I I pretend like she's alive, like you know what I mean. I just getting better at it, like saying, Oh no, my mom died. But I for the longest time I just wouldn't even say that. Yeah. So but specifically on Mother's Day, the biggest thing in every day that I'm like really trying to lean in more. And like this is like a very much like recent the last few months, is what would my mom do? Yeah. Like, how can I love my kids the way that she loved me? How can I continue that stuff? And we talk, my kids called her Nana.

SPEAKER_05 49:16

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 49:16

And we talk about Nana all the time too. And Nana would love this, or she would be here, or she would, you know, would be here. And Chloe's like, Nana would, you know. So I think just flipping in my mind more, like rather than focusing on, I mean, I have plenty of minutes like that. She's not here. Yeah. Plenty of time that I'm like miserable or cry, you know, I a shower cry or all of that. But flipping it and being like, okay, what would my mom do? Yeah. You know, and she would want us to just be so happy and do the things that we want to do and like really live. That's all that she would, you know, would want. So yeah. Yeah. Long-winded answer. But I love it. Yeah, that's because how old were your kids when she passed? So it will be four years this so six and eight. Okay. Yeah. Okay. So they have great memories of it. They do. William definitely more. You know, Chloe was like right on that, but she she definitely does. She has a photo of her uh in her bed. Nana on the banner. Yeah. Yep, the two of them. So Nana's everywhere. Yeah. And I'm like grateful for that. I still wish she was here. Of course. But yeah. All right. Well, I feel like this was just a really good coffee catching. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 50:41

Right. I mean, I was gonna try to bring mimosas, but I didn't have my ID, so I was laughing. And that's perfect because I'm still like a little hesitant after the yard. Oh my gosh, we've got it.

SPEAKER_03 50:54

I don't have any alcohol. So Jess, thank you for letting me highlight you this week. Yeah. For real. And happy Mother's Day. Thank you. And to you guys listening, I know you loved this conversation because I sure did. Share it, tag me, navigating between the lines, and take this as your sign to go call a friend. Maybe you haven't talked too much recently and catch up on what's going on in the real life, not just the surface stuff. Spread a little love this week. We all need it. Happy mothers to everyone. New moms, wannabe moms, late moms, whatever. All the all the moms. There's all the things and it's a lot going on. So even the ones who look like they have it all together. Yeah. They don't. I know. All right. Until next time.