It's mental health awareness months so we felt to share about our own personal experiences. From having a child who's attempted to take her life, to personal experiences of being diagnosed as bi-polar. We hope that our stories and perspectives assist you in your journey if this hits close to home.
This episode is a bit more vulnerable as we both share personal experiences around mental health, suicide, labels of bi-polar, borderline personality disorder, shame and more.
Jessica shares her story of what she has experienced with her daughter through cutting, suicide attempts, the toll on her family and her relationship and the difficulty of knowing what to do and who to talk to. Speaking from a very vulnerable place Jessica shares the shame and guilt she carried as a mother to protect her child.
Amanda shares her personal story of being diagnosed as bi-polar at 19 years old, dealing with that label, the medications, etc only to recognize years later that she was mis-diagnosed.
We hope that as we share our stories it will create some comfort or some much needed suggestions that you are looking for. Welcome to the conversation.
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It's mental health awareness months so we felt to share about our own personal experiences. From having a child who's attempted to take her life, to personal experiences of being diagnosed as bi-polar. We hope that our stories and perspectives assist you in your journey if this hits close to home.
This episode is a bit more vulnerable as we both share personal experiences around mental health, suicide, labels of bi-polar, borderline personality disorder, shame and more.
Jessica shares her story of what she has experienced with her daughter through cutting, suicide attempts, the toll on her family and her relationship and the difficulty of knowing what to do and who to talk to. Speaking from a very vulnerable place Jessica shares the shame and guilt she carried as a mother to protect her child.
Amanda shares her personal story of being diagnosed as bi-polar at 19 years old, dealing with that label, the medications, etc only to recognize years later that she was mis-diagnosed.
We hope that as we share our stories it will create some comfort or some much needed suggestions that you are looking for. Welcome to the conversation.
XZiQKIYkwzWgVH5V6V9x
Unknown Speaker 0:05
Hi there, we know that what is personal is universal. I am Amanda Loveland.
Unknown Speaker 0:09
And I am Jessica devenish. Welcome to the conversation. Hello. Hello, here we are, again. Episode Two.
Unknown Speaker 0:25
Well, how are you today?
Unknown Speaker 0:28
I'm great today.
Unknown Speaker 0:29
That's good.
Unknown Speaker 0:30
Better than I am not even faking it this time.
Unknown Speaker 0:32
Hell yeah. So I'd like to call you out.
Unknown Speaker 0:35
You want to call me this time? Maybe next time, not today.
Unknown Speaker 0:39
So I think we've gotten some feedback from our first episode already. And we were both commenting that we've had a few people say that they got teary eyed listening to her last one of both Jessica and I are like, what, what did we say? What part? Yeah, so we'll have to go back and listen, I guess I don't I don't know. But yeah, we appreciate those of you who have listened and given feedback already. It's been awesome.
Unknown Speaker 1:01
Yes, I love feedback. I welcome it. I appreciate it. You and me both. Bam.
Unknown Speaker 1:05
So you had brought up that Mays mental health Health Awareness Month, which is something that I think you and I both have a lot of passion for. And so we're just gonna kind of dive into kind of dive into it. I know.
Unknown Speaker 1:19
I just felt like a natural time to talk about. Yeah, mental health awareness, since it is me. Yeah. And some of the feedback that we got was, Hey, I would love to know a little more about your daughter, Courtney. Yeah. You know, because I briefly like, yeah.
Unknown Speaker 1:35
mention that for a minute. Well, and it's a really important story. I know, for me, personally. And I think I would think that most women have had some experience with depression, especially women who have had children. And when I was 1819, I went through a phase of my life, I grew up Mormon, and I went through a phase to where I was not going to church, I wasn't doing all the things I was supposed to do. I actually was engaged. My dad sends me off to college saying, you know, you need to have an experience before you get married. Because I was 19, I broke off engagement, fell into a depression, come home, he gets me into therapy. And then I a couple months later, I start dating a boy, we start living together, I stopped going to church, all these things, and then I'm moving out to Seattle, like, you know, I'm 1920 figure out who the hell he was. And I thought I was getting married. And anyway, I go to a therapist, and Oh, actually, in Seattle, I fell into a really, really, really deep depression, and was really seriously considering taking my life and how do I how would I want to do it. And I was laying on a couch in our apartment. And I actually had a really cool experience where my brother who passed away came came to me which that was, like, one of the first times I had had something like that happen. And all he all he said to me is call mom. So I called her and she flew out and and came and got me and I ended up staying in Seattle, but they they made my parents made a deal with me, Hey, you go to a therapist, and we'll keep helping paying for your rent. That was kind of our exchange. And so I did and I'm with them. They were actually with me, and I had called to make the appointment. And when we went in the guy goes, I could have diagnose you over the phone, you're bipolar. And my parents to them, it was an answer that they were looking for, as far as what was wrong with their child.
Unknown Speaker 3:23
This is what's wrong? Yes.
Unknown Speaker 3:25
So I get labeled as bipolar on medications. And actually it was, it was a good experience in a lot of ways I was misdiagnosed. I later went to a therapist in Utah, who said in Utah, it's often this looking in the mirror syndrome, where we're told we should see this certain reflection, especially if you're religious. And you have another aspect of yourself. So this is looking in the mirror mirror syndrome. So you see one aspect that you think you're supposed to see and another aspect that you are seeing, and it's like, well, which version of me Do I want to be and you're bouncing back and forth? And so
Unknown Speaker 3:55
for my supposed to be? Yeah.
Unknown Speaker 3:56
And I'm 19 for God's sakes. So I was on medication up until my first marriage and actually even past that I remember my dad or my mom sitting my husband, Patrick at the time down and saying are you sure you want to marry her? You know, she has bipolar. And anyway, it's just been one of those things that I allowed for that label to sit with me for some time. And I was okay with that. I actually had to make peace with the fact what if I am bipolar? Does that mean I'm a horrible person? And I definitely use it as a crutch for some time. But one of the beautiful things that I actually loved about my bouts with depression is I knew where my boundaries were. And I knew where my edges were, and I got to a point where I could feel it coming in. I would know I was having a depression that was coming in very, very strong. I would tell my husband at the time, it's coming in. I'm dropping. I would ask for a priesthood blessing because I was Mormon would you would actually always really help me.
Unknown Speaker 4:51
I'm sure
Unknown Speaker 4:52
I would allow myself to drop for three days and then I would crawl my ass out of that freaking home because it was it was painful. It was hard. I wasn't on antidepressants at the time. I'm because this is after I had children, I got off all my medications and to have kids and, and anyway, so I'm grateful for those experiences because I knew I knew what that felt like. And later on it served. It served me much later in my life, which is a whole other story for another podcast. But I know you've had some really personal experiences with with your child. And I, we, when we were talking about this, before we started recording, I think that the aspect of the reflection of our children I think is a fascinating dynamic with any kind of mental health, mental illness, mental whatever is going on. And you've had some very personal experiences with your daughter Courtney, right? Yes, I did. How old was she when?
Unknown Speaker 5:44
Well, looking back, you know, it started when she was eight years old. Oh, really? A lot of the patterns and the lying and the hiding and the manipulation and all of those things. Yeah. And not feeling like she fit in. This was shortly after we adopted my niece. I want Yeah, I was just gonna ask that. Oh, yeah. And but you know, it didn't start then. It had. It was it was kind of already there. Yeah. In that when she moved in, each of my kids have their own bedroom. And we brought in a boy and a girl. And so we were like which rooms who's going to share a room with her? And so it was pretty clear at the time that we were gonna let Courtney have her own room, because of the difficulties we'd already had with Courtney. Yeah. So as a mom, I can go back to that moment and say, I think that's when it started. And yet the there was already issues there. So later on, she was like, I this is one of the reasons why I felt like an outcast, because the two boys in the two girls shared room and I was out. So which comes first? You know, the chicken or the egg? But yeah, I think it was the first time in my life. Because one of the things that I'm proud of in my business and my coaching and is I am, what you see is what you get. There's no separation in my professional life and my spiritual life and who I am personally. So it's kind of like this harmonious journey of who I am in all aspects. And it was the first time in my life when I felt myself separate that I couldn't be transparent.
Unknown Speaker 7:09
Why?
Unknown Speaker 7:10
Well, I had when she when she first started cutting, she was 13. And how do you know anything about cutting? Yeah, how did you know what cutting was? Well, I was in the middle of the night. It was 230 in the morning, and you hear a knock on your door at 230 in the morning. Nothing's nothing good is happening when someone's knocking on your door at 230 in the morning. So I remember shaking my husband Kelly. I'm like, I think Someone's knocking. So I get up. I'm staggering literally to the door. It's in the summertime. So there was a front window open. So I just yelled out the window without looking because I was I was nervous. I didn't dare answer the door. Right. I said, Who is it? And he said, it's the police. I'm your heart problem. And my heart just dropped. Yeah. So I'm like, Is everyone okay? And he said, I need you to open the door. It's about your daughter, Courtney. So we opened the door. And I said, Where is she? Is she not in the House did she leave, and she was up in a room. And she had told an a boyfriend who had broken up with her that she was going to take her life. And so it began? Wow. You know, usually they pink slip them and they take them somewhere. But we were able to go she had fallen asleep. We had we were able to go wake her up. And the officer was really gracious. And we had a beautiful conversation. And that's kind of the beginning of you know where that road LED. And we had been to therapy. I mean, the story of Courtney goes from eight years old, probably earlier to now she's 21 in August. The story has many facets, many peaks and valleys. But I think the core of what I wanted to share today was the judgment side of it. So when you said What did I do? You know, I have a really tight knit group of friends, my family and close friends. And so I am who I am and I share what I'm going through and what what I'm experiencing. So I had shared with what I thought was my best friend at the time. You know, she's like, what's going on? I can set some things up. I said, Well, you know, Courtney started cutting. And her first reaction to me was, oh, my daughter would never do. And I saw myself shutting down. Oh, of course I was total judgment. Total and, and judgment. I mean, you're so worried the shame, the guilt, the uncertainty of what the outside world's gonna say. Yeah, there's already there's already a self judgment, right. That was already existing. Yeah. Just like you were saying, before we started the podcast was as a parent, we take on like, all the woes and the triumphs of our children. And I don't I don't know why that is. And anyway, I pulled in. Yeah, and I I became very ashamed. I became very Scared, because I didn't know what I didn't know, I have never experienced depression in that way. I mean, I'm not gonna say life hasn't had its challenges, and I found myself in times of like, lows. Right. But I would never say that I've personally experienced depression. Yeah.
Unknown Speaker 10:17
When I think the parent part that you talk to is, it's really interesting that we do naturally have this innate belief that our children are a reflection of us. And I remember a good friend of mine was the one who kind of brought it to an awareness of like, these kids come in with their unique imprint of whoever they are. And I mean, all of us can look at our children and go absolutely without a shadow of a doubt. They're all so unique. And and so independent and not independent. But so individual and who they are, that why would I think that they are a reflection of me like I, my job here is to do my best at being their parent, and, you know, assisting them and teaching them whatever I can teach them, and then they they're choosing their own path.
Unknown Speaker 10:57
Yeah. And you know, the book by Dr. shefali. Conscious parent. Oh, yeah. I wish I would have read that before I had children. Yeah, I would recommend for any parent new. Read the book, because that book changed my thought process on it's my fault, I did something wrong. And that, you're right. They choose our own path. They choose their own journey, and they chose us to. So there was something there for both of us to go through together. And through lots of therapy. Great therapy I really loved in therapy therapist, we literally walked out of a therapists office one time. But this one therapist, it was a pretty profound question, because I was really taking on the woes of Courtney's Yeah, what did I do? What could I have done? How did I yeah. And she said to me, okay, so let's talk about another child, a child that maybe you've seen, like, excelled in certain things, or things that Courtney's excelled in, describe those things. So I was telling her about all these other triumph triumphs and goals and things that my daughter had another daughter had received and experienced. And she said, so do you take responsibility? Do you carry the flag for her saying, Oh, she does all those amazing things? Because I was an amazing mother. I said, Absolutely not. And she laughed at me and said, and there is the question, why are you doing that with Courtney? And it really just it like, knocked me right in the face. I said, You're so right. Yeah, I'm so grateful for that question. Because it helped me see that. I'm not taking responsibility for all the wonderful choices that your kids are making. And all and I Why am I taking responsibility for all of the heart?
Unknown Speaker 12:37
Yeah,
Unknown Speaker 12:38
experiences that they're having. So that I share that because it was powerful for me, and I hope if another mom hears that, then that is a question to ask yourself to go within. Show yourself some empathy.
Unknown Speaker 12:53
Yes, but it's also it is a heart especially mom or dad, or since we're moms, we're talking about moms, but our mom heart of our whole like the mama bear where we're supposed to protect our kids.
Unknown Speaker 13:03
Right?
Unknown Speaker 13:04
So then, of course, it would be natural that you would go go through I mean, I do it with my kids all the time. I don't know what parent doesn't. But I love that question of Wait a minute, you know, can you really take total responsibility?
Unknown Speaker 13:17
Yeah. She said, if you're going to take all the responsibility of this experience, then I'm going to command you to take the responsibility of everything else do. Yeah. And of course, you're not going to do that. Right. So it almost it like, it seemed laughable, and it brought out the humor in a very, like, heavy, heavy time. Yeah. And it was she simplified it so much that I was just like, oh, and I really was like that backpack. I was gonna you're carrying around it just like I was gonna ask it off. Oh, that's good, and stand a little straighter and go. Okay. And obviously, as parents, we can say, I could have shut off what, uh, you could shut all over yourself, right? There's times there's looking back. I'm not the mom today that I was 10 years ago, that I may would have handled something differently. And I'm not afraid to say I didn't know what I didn't know. Right. So after that happened in the cutting, you know, we had been through quite a bit of therapy. She had started seeing a therapist, and I had enrolled her in Provo Canyon behavioral outpatient. And I remember they were like, why she doesn't have any of the history that she should be here. And I was, I was pretty aggressive. And I said, Why don't I'm trying to avoid that, right. That's why I'm here. If so I can give her outpatient therapy and support before we need inpatient, right. And she excelled there, in that she kind of knew how to play the game. So she made sure that she did all the things that she was supposed to do. And so she they they excused her. So she wasn't there for very long. And then we were going to therapy and I had a therapist. And she she would never let me go into the therapy with Courtney. And that was hard as a mom I'm not, I'm not gonna lie. I she was pretty young. She was 1314. I didn't really. I wanted to be there to support her. Yeah, and no, because there she is in therapy, the therapist can't share anything with you because of HIPAA. And I just felt really disconnected. But Courtney did have some good experience there. But she quit seeing Courtney because she told me that they don't diagnosed diagnosed adolescents with any kind of symptoms, like bipolar generally, or, but she said, I believe she has borderline personality disorder. And she has three out of the I think there's nine symptoms. She says she's on the lower spectrum. And this is what I believe to be true for her so I can no longer see her because it's not my specialty. Yeah. So you need to go to someone else. So I mean, in their in embarks, the journey of therapists now I chose at that time not to tell her Yeah, well, reason I chose is because I had noticed a pattern with depression, anxiety, some other things that she had experienced that she attached herself to those labels. Yeah. So I was fearful that if I gate I told her again, I later told her and it was a very beautiful conversation. She actually was like, Oh, thank you. I had bought a book, I'd done a lot of research. So before I told her, I'd bought this book. And I said, I think this book would help. And she was so grateful and a little bit older and appreciative and said, Thank you, because it gives me a name that I can look into. And I'm glad I waited. And I'm glad I did tell her but I didn't tell her initially. And at the time, I didn't know if that was the right thing to do. You know, do I tell her to not tell her but it just felt that intuitive side of me said, I don't want her to attach to a label any more than right. She already had.
Unknown Speaker 16:50
Yeah, that's tricky. It is tricky. It is really tricky. I think depending on the situation. That's where I think it's awesome that you use your intuition, because I think it depends on I know, for me, that label was a scapegoat. I used it a ton. Until I didn't, but I noticed I would get I would use that label to get out of things. And that were commitments that I had agreed to do. And then it's, you know, what I didn't fill up for it and my depression or my whatever was kicking in. And so I would use that. And I'm trying to think when I think was after my first divorce. It just it was a it was very much a I had someone that said to me, You haven't been on medication for how many years? There's no way you have, there's no way you can have bipolar and not be on medication and be functioning. You know, I ran a business I had four children going through divorce data data. And I had kind of a godsend in the sense of an old nanny of mine who her and I had become friends and she was staying with me for a minute. And she was has some psychotic, not psycho psychosis. And I don't know if she's officially actually I do believe she's officially bipolar. And she calls I'm doing a Reiki training. She called the ambulance on herself because she can feel herself dropping. And so I meet at the emergency room and I go in and I have never seen anything like that. And I she was very much like a child wanted to color can you walk with me to the bathroom talking like a child like all sorts of just interesting dynamics. And I ended up having to because none of our family lived here. So I ended up admitting her into a psych psychiatric ward. And it was like it was one of those moments where, where when you see something like that reflected back at you. It's like, oh, okay, I might cycle because we all cycle. And but I've never, I've not ever had that experience. The irony is, is I attracted borderline personality disorder, one of my partners was borderline and very borderline, and had to go through some, you know, attracted some unhealthy relationships, which is kind of ironic. But the label piece is tricky. It is really tricky because you either it either empowers you because you want to go understand what's going on and how can I navigate through this or use as a as a crutch? And I did I did both? I did both.
Unknown Speaker 19:12
I think she I think I didn't make a right choice. Or I think she would have done that in the beginning because and by the time I told her I had been able to do a lot of research myself. So one of the things that borderline personality disorder, they do a lot of black and white thinking and cognitive behavioral therapy and being able to like discern, what are you like, is that a story you're telling in your mind being able to ask reflective listening skills that I was able to learn and kind of help because therapy is great. And that's like one hour every week or every two weeks. And some of those therapy sessions were very break. groundbreaking, and some were very frustrating because you're saying I'm spending 24 seven with her and you get an hour with her once a week and you're not allowing me to come in the room. So you're able to use, she's able to manipulate some of the conversation, because there's there's truths that are not being shared here, right?
Unknown Speaker 20:08
One that
Unknown Speaker 20:09
they are, how do we support each other? Yeah,
Unknown Speaker 20:11
you're not getting the whole story, in my experience to anyone that has any kind of I don't know what you want to I don't like the labels, but anyone who has anything like that they are brilliant of you, and the way that they can communicate and talk through things like trying to navigate how to like, wait a minute, here's, here's, here's the line that we need to toe. And how did we get over here? And how did you make me just under believe that like, What just happened? Oh, she's
Unknown Speaker 20:41
brilliant. She'll say, Don't surprise me.
Unknown Speaker 20:44
Because Oh, really, she's
Unknown Speaker 20:44
so brilliant. And I know that she's here for something amazing. Like she went through that to serve others. And she's already helped other kids in that way. And speaking of medication, so when she i don't think i think they may have put her on Prozac or I don't know, it's been a while. Yeah, something a low dose at that time. Well, through all the therapy, this was, like I said, I think she was younger, the years all kind of meshed together, right. But so we had gone through therapy, and I'm going to say, I'm going to be bold to say that maybe I was naive to believe that we were in a really safe place. She she'd been through a lot. And she was just in this beautiful place. So Kelly and I had gone for a drive up to Sundance, which is one of my favorite places. We were going out for dinner. And we were in the parking lot. And if you know Sundance, you don't have on service. There are very little very little Yeah, we're in the parking lot. And we had just parked. And we honestly were both just feeling like this, because we hadn't really left to go do something just with the two of us for quite some time, which there's a whole conversation about what that does to our relationship.
Unknown Speaker 21:56
Oh, man, I
Unknown Speaker 21:57
can only
Unknown Speaker 21:59
I mean, that was one of our because we were not she was coming from a headspace. I was coming from a heart space only. Yeah. So we were not parenting her the same. We were not my first time I took her to vantage point. He actually would not support me in that. I did it on my own. Yeah, well, I took her to an vantage point. If you don't know what that is, it's a place that's the safe place where they can go for 72 hours. They've stripped them of all of their belongings. And they're just kind of in a I'm gonna use the word sell during like a sell room where they can't harm themselves, but it's a safe place. And it gives parents It was really hard for me to take her there. But she was at a place where I I wasn't sleeping. I didn't know. Yeah, if she was safe. I didn't know how to keep her safe. So I took it a vantage point. It wasn't ugly. She was it wasn't pretty, I should say it was ugly. She was not happy with me.
Unknown Speaker 22:48
How old was she when he did that?
Unknown Speaker 22:50
I'm gonna say it was before it was like 14. Yeah. But yeah, I remember vividly that my husband and I were not on the same page there. And right or wrong. You know, there's all about perspectives. My one of my daughters went with me. Just because she saw that. Yeah, I needed her to go. But anyway, so I don't know where I was going with that. But the medication. So you're up at Sundance, oh, we were up at Sundance, and I get a phone call. And it's her then boyfriend at the time. And you'll see a pattern here. She She always I mean, she was eight years old. And she had a boyfriend quote. Yeah. She always kind of needed that. That was a pattern for her. Yeah. She She really leaned into those relationships. And she kind of became them. You know. So there she was, I get this phone call from the then boyfriend at the time. And he said, Do you know where Courtney's at? And I said, No, why? What's going on? He said, I found a note. She left a note. Well, no. And I can't find her. And I haven't been able to try to get ahold of her for an hour. And my heart just sunk. Yeah. Because I thought we were in this like place of light and moving forward. And in that maybe that chapter was over. So of course, we're a million miles from home. You're 40 minutes from home, but it could not be any farther. Right? So of course we just get in. I'm like, okay, where are you? I'm on my way. And I on the way home. I have a friend who's on the sheriff. It's all about who you know, I call them and I said you need to ping her cell phone. I need to know where he's at. Well, that whole process that really happens in the movies. Yeah. It's not as easy as they say. Because we did not know where she was. And we were with a certain carrier at the time where it takes it's like you pings them and you don't know for like an hour and a half. Wow. an hour and a half. Yeah, she could be anywhere. Anyway, she I got home and he showed me the note. It was horrible. Sad. I felt terrible. Anyway, my family my immediate family. My brother is an IT and he we we we found her. We like more My family's the mafia. We had seven different cards out looking for her. Oh my goodness. And we kept she had norstar norstar was on your your OnStar? No, sir OnStar in her car. So it's in my name. So I had called OnStar.
Unknown Speaker 25:18
So how old is she at this point?
Unknown Speaker 25:19
She's 617. Okay. Yeah, she's 17. I had OnStar call her Yeah, in the car. And so I was talking to her. And I'm like, Courtney, this is mom and she wouldn't respond. I'm like, Courtney, this is Mom, I love you. You need to come home, please come home. And she just kept hanging up and kept pinging up. And so anyway, we pinged her phone, but not with the help of any police or any like cell phone service. My brother in law did it with his IT skills. And and angels and guardian angels, right helped us find her. So we found her they have to pink slipper? It's the law. They take him to the emergency room, and then they're going to take them to a psych ward. Yeah. So they did that. It was terribly hard experience. There was only here's an eye opener. There was one bed for a single female in the whole state of Utah.
Unknown Speaker 26:13
Yeah, one bet. And how many years ago was this now? Well, this
Unknown Speaker 26:16
was in 2017. It was February 26 2017.
Unknown Speaker 26:22
When I got the phone call. One I know this year alone or this past year. I mean, the suicide rates have it tripled for 20 or 30 to 45 or 55. I mean, it's ridiculous how much it's gone up?
Unknown Speaker 26:36
Yeah, it's going back there. 71 bed, wow, in bed.
Unknown Speaker 26:41
But thank God,
Unknown Speaker 26:42
they had that for her. She had to stay there for 48 hours in the end, you know, the social workers at the hospital. I mean, so much beautiful souls. They beautiful souls. And so we knew at that time when she was there for 48 hours, we brought her home. And luckily my husband and I, our career path had changed. I had sold out in my other company where I had an office. I was working from home. Yeah. Wow. Divine. Right. I know why now, right. We were working from home. So we literally were on what I call house arrest for seven weeks, between my husband and I, we really didn't want to lean on the other kids because the toll that it puts on your other children. Yeah. is so hard. I can imagine so hard, you know that saying you're only as happy as your least happy child? Yeah, it's so true. You know, there was definitely we call it the the volume of Courtney like what kind of mood are we is the house in today? You know, because you just you're walking on eggshells you never knew. So anyway, 24 seven for seven weeks. And I knew as hard as that was to admit, as a mom that I needed. I needed help outside of our home. Yeah, I needed to take her to a residential facility because I was not equipped.
Unknown Speaker 27:55
Yeah.
Unknown Speaker 27:56
Because it came, I thought we were in such a great place. I thought she was doing well and to have this breakup with this then boyfriend at the time. That happened suddenly, he had broken up with her. And she couldn't deal. And so she was gonna choose out. And you know, they see it sign of cutting is not necessarily a sign of suicide cutting is releasing pain and on how to let go of the pain. Yeah. So there was suicide ideation conversations in evidence when we got the police phone call in the middle of the night. So So we found a residential facility. And I'll tell you that experience was a difficult one. And a beautiful one. I called probably two dozen places. I even ended up calling an all boys home, which I didn't know it was, wow. The gentleman on the phone. He spent two hours with me. Wow. Just how can I help? How can I help? And he he shared some very sacred things that just helped me so much to that time. So there's just so many beautiful souls because you're finding a home to send your child
Unknown Speaker 28:59
so that she will stay alive and want to live
Unknown Speaker 29:01
and your new she's not gonna live under your roof as a mother. Yeah, there's so much self judgment in that night, but I am not enough. I am not capable. I am a failure. I I'm not equipped to keep my own child safe. Yeah. So I knew that. You know, we had to do that. And so Kelly and I, we were in agreement on this, sending her so we found a place and there's two ways to go about it. One is they come and they wake her up at six in the morning and they strong arm her to go or the other day she goes willingly. And I obviously wanted the second option, but I didn't know every day was a roller coaster. One day she's like, you know, Mom, I feel like I need help. She came into me and I had said a prayer. I just needed an answer on what to do because they we had plans to take her the next day or they were going to come take her. So I said a prayer and I just asked what's the answer and she came into me shortly after and said mom, she started crying. He said, I need help. I feel like I need to go somewhere that can help me where I can stay. And that was the answer. And I said, Well, I have a place. And you go there on Monday. And this was Easter weekend. So that Easter was pretty surreal, because everyone knew that she was leaving on Monday. And we took her to a residential facility and she was there for she was there for like six months. Oh, wow. But when she first got there, she does a psych psychiatric evaluation. And so the psychiatrists called me and said, I want to put her on. I believe it was called Lexapro. And that's just psychotic medication, anti psychotic, anti psychotic medication. And I didn't wait. I'm like, I'm leaning on you as the expert, because I don't know anything about these medications. That medication alone, she gained 40 pounds, all my goodness. So you're a 17 year old, with lack of self love lack of self image. And now you've gained 40 pounds. That's what happened with me.
Unknown Speaker 30:59
And it's like, how do you not have a depression?
Unknown Speaker 31:01
How do you lost right? Yeah,
Unknown Speaker 31:03
I didn't gain 40 pounds, but I gained I think 20 pounds in like a month.
Unknown Speaker 31:06
Yeah, she gained? Yeah. It was like, she still struggles with that. Because with skin starts that like, yeah, now she's almost 21 she's in a great place. She's not even on any medication at all. She chose to she felt like it made her foggy. Yeah. But that process of choosing to find a home for her. And I I really didn't tell a lot of people. It's interesting. Now I feel like I've been so open about it. It's shocking to me when somebody says I didn't know that. But because I am such a where my life on my sleeve. Like there's I'm so transparent. My clients know about just, we're just who we are. And I really looking back, that was the one time in my life that I I kind of hid because it was, and I felt I was worried that someone else would judge me and think I was not a great mom.
Unknown Speaker 32:00
Well, you're also going through trauma, right? And so you Everyone has a different trauma response of how to really survive, and how to navigate through it. Because it's not just you trying to keep your child alive. It's how your other children like you're talking about your partner. I think you know, it is man that had to be really challenging. If looking back, you know, if you were if you were obviously we have an audience is listening and say there is either someone who's gone through what Courtney has gone through or the parent, what would your advice or thoughts be as far as you know, what what you know, now, you could impart to someone you know, when we sat in that, that event that you invited me to? And the woman there shared how her daughter just tried her stepdaughter, I think was it her daughter, it was her daughter who just tried to commit suicide, and she couldn't get get her in anywhere. You know, and and
Unknown Speaker 32:54
I think she was in similar. She was like, I'm trying to find an outpatient place for her and Shannon had already attempted. Yeah. And so she I said,
Unknown Speaker 33:02
and that was the second time she had attempted if I remember correctly. And her story was similar. She was 13 the first time and like, Yeah, a little older the second time, and they were shocked
Unknown Speaker 33:14
when she asked me I mean, you could tell like this immediate, like, Oh, you fill me like I use this resonance of like, you see me? Yeah. And I asked her why haven't you? I was I was bold, right? That wasn't coming from judgment. It came from like straight compassion. Why haven't you considered residential facility like a full time? She said, Well, because I we thought she was doing great. And I and I said, and she is doing great. And she needs more, maybe more than you can offer. And I said, How about your other kids? And if you remember, right, that's kind of when she just broke down. She said, My other kids are struggling. Everyone's struggling. We it's okay to say we don't know what we don't know. And I said, My experience was takes any harder residential facility was so needed for her and me and my marriage and my other children. And my like, mental health, right? My own mental health.
Unknown Speaker 34:14
So it's Courtney doing good. Now. You said she's off medication.
Unknown Speaker 34:17
Yeah, she's off medications. And she's done a lot of therapy since then. She's done a little hypnotherapy. Well, NLP, you know about that. And that has helped her so much. So much so that we both want to write a book, a story of our experience together as a mother and daughter, because as a mother, I know how lonely it was and how terrifying it was, and the shame and the guilt and the fear, the unknown. I mean, I didn't even know who to call when I started calling all those residential facilities. I didn't have any resources. I don't know of any other parents, personally, that had ever had a child attempt suicide or most people are
Unknown Speaker 34:55
quiet about it, like
Unknown Speaker 34:56
you said, and if and if I did, I didn't know if it was Is it okay to call them? Right? Is that do you have permission to do that? Yeah. I don't know that that's like a free card to say, oh, Jessica had this problem, right with her daughter or this struggle or this challenge. She had a guy who Trish called Jessica. Yeah. So what I'm here to say, and what I tell people is yes, please call me. Because if I would have had a resource to call, I would have done that.
Unknown Speaker 35:22
Right. Yeah. 100%,
Unknown Speaker 35:24
I needed to know, I just needed to talk to somebody who had any inkling of what we were going through. When I think those phone calls you know, those those admit, what do you call them? The admins? Because they didn't the admin the children when they come in? They were so those were my friends. Like, so they were able to, like the one gentleman he talked to me for two hours now. And I there was no possibility there was any financial gain in that for him because I had a daughter, and he was an all male facility. Yeah.
Unknown Speaker 35:55
That's awesome.
Unknown Speaker 35:56
That's good that Yeah, wow, it was good to have those conversations and be able to, you know, now that I'm open, and your your circle is I have more people I can I can name a dozen people that have maybe been through that, that I would know who to call. But it wasn't until I like I was transparent in that too, in that experience, and I wasn't afraid anymore of what somebody would think of me.
Unknown Speaker 36:22
One, one of the things that I've noticed, I know my oldest who's 18 and graduating this year, graduating next week, and they would have these Band of Brothers necklaces, because you know, when you have they had, you know, at lone peak, there were several suicides and, and so they started, I've noticed that this generation is a lot more affectionate and a lot more. I don't know if you've seen that with your son. Yeah. Which is, at first, it was a little alarming. And Travis and I were talking about it, because our oldest are the same age and the way that they communicate and things with each other back in our generation would be Wait, what what is happening, and how they, they're just affectionate with each other. But they, at least in my with Lucas, like they had Band of Brothers necklaces that you call when you need when you need help, you know, and they were always there for each other. And I didn't know Lucas ever depression, and I think it was seventh grade didn't tell me until later and how he navigated through it. And I, I feel like one of the things that since we're talking about our kids, one of the disservice that I think we're doing as far as a society is not teaching our children energetics, because these kids are coming in more and more empathetic, more and more sensitive and attuned to an environment that they're not taught how to actually self regulate the energy that's actually their feeling and how to move, move it through their body, or even the thought patterns, everything just mental and how do I move that down into my heart space and actually get into that space instead of always in the mental of what's wrong with me. And you know, going down those loops of just these tools of how to navigate life instead of two plus two is four. And let's go do geometry. And, you know, we
Unknown Speaker 37:55
don't talk about it, because you'll be labeled as something
Unknown Speaker 37:58
right. Although, nowadays, it's starting to be glorified. I don't know if you ever saw Yeah. Did you see that one show?
Unknown Speaker 38:03
We've gone from one spectrum to the other. Yeah. And the kids are self diagnosing. So
Unknown Speaker 38:08
it's like, yeah, I mean, there is an aspect of taking it serious, because this is real, and work, we come in the middle and, you know, teach our kids energetics and teach. Okay, well, how does that make you feel? Or how to navigate through the mental plane? Because when our children, you know, one of our children is more, more mental and trying to understand why is that fair? And, you know, whatever it is,
Unknown Speaker 38:30
yeah. Yeah, that's true, I think and Courtney, you know, I've taught her energetics and how to like work through those emotions. And she learned that too, when she was at the residential facility. Oh, that's good. Like, she knows now. Mom, I'm feeling kind of low. Can I come over? Or can I talk? Or I'm like, okay, yes. And tell me what you've done. Right? Some of the steps that you've done. In the last, you know, since you've recognized it, right, and she knows that ice on her wrists, ice on the back of her neck helps de escalate those emotions for her. While she's really feeling anxious, anxious, low, like just this. The loop, the black and white thinking, the storytelling that happens in her mind when she just can't get off the loop. And she's like, she's thinking of all the worst case scenarios of whatever it may be, right? She knows that in her whole body starts to get itchy and she recognizes the sign. Yeah, so she knows like so itchy that she just wants to like scratch it off from her body. So she knows I need to get in the hot shower. And she puts ice cubes on the bottom of the hour thing. Yeah, so the the combination of the ice on the bottom of her feet and the hot shower is the thing that helps her to help her move the energy through Yeah. And so teaching her Okay, you know journaling, write it down. Write what's what what is it that you're afraid of right now? What's the worst case scenario that you're storytelling about? And let's talk it out. What's the worst out in the bad happen? Yeah, you know, and so then saying it out loud, getting off the merry go round in your head. Part of this CBT skills, it's getting off the merry go round getting away from black and white thinking and kind of helps shift her in those are things that she's learned a lot from what I've taught her and a combination of what she learned at the residential facility. Yeah, one of the things that the residential facility that I saw when she got out of the residential facility, it was really good ish for the first year. One thing that I think was a fail on my part, I'll take accountability as the mother, I wish the facility would have done a little more parental training on what happens when they come home. Because now she's home, and mom is still in the place she was when she left. Even though we would go to weekly, they'd had parent night, every Thursday night. Now, that was a beautiful experience. Courtney had, every time I would talk about, say a prayer god, she's like, that's not me. I'm not you. I don't know what I believe in. So when you go through those residential facilities, even if they're not like alcohol related, it's always about the 12 step. That's why it was hard to find a place because a lot of times addiction has to be the main reason that they're going to mental health as a secondary, which I think that the system needs a shift in that No kidding. Because not everyone that has a mental health issue, there's not addiction attached to it. Now Courtney did mess around with some stuff once in a while she had gotten caught doing a couple things she wasn't supposed to be doing. But and that's not why she was there. Right. And so finding a place because I was looking at places to send her out in the mountains where she'd go, yeah, those are only recovery, like addiction recovery. Wow,