What is Personal is Universal

03. Continuing the conversation; Mental Health, Boundaries, Borderline Personality Disorder & more

May 31, 2021 Amanda Joy Loveland & Jessica Lee Devenish Season 1 Episode 3
What is Personal is Universal
03. Continuing the conversation; Mental Health, Boundaries, Borderline Personality Disorder & more
Show Notes Transcript

This episode has many facets; we dive into energetics and mental health. Mental health conversation is a follow up to episode 2 about relationships with someone you love that has Borderline Personality Disorder. 

We share some tools you can start using immediately on energetics and emotional healing techniques such as energy bubbles and shields to deflect any harmful energy you may encounter from others throughout your day. Daily routines to set healthy boundaries, get grounded and lean into your breath. 

Amanda shares her story about choosing herself and stepping out of a relationship even though she loved him deeply. She knew if she didn't then she would never come out of the dark depression she was heading towards. The experience was too familiar from her 19 year old self and following the advice of a friend she listened to her heart.

Jessica shares her story about setting boundaries with her daughter, being able to let go and let God. Coming to terms with the fact that she had to make the shift in the relationship, if she wanted to teach her daughter healthy boundaries and intuitively knew getting off their merry-go-round was in her hands. By stepping off the drama triangle herself, it gave her daughter permission to do the same.  

We hope our stories connect with you and comfort you on your own personally journey. We know what is personal is universal. 

References:
* You Can Heal Your Life by Louise Hay
* Breaking The Habit of Being Yourself by Joe Dispenza
*The Triangle of Disempowerment video: https://youtu.be/Cf7VDg6LNTA

Come continue the conversation and join our Facebook group! https://www.facebook.com/groups/965417870873844

Unknown:

Hi there, we know that what is personal is universal. I am Amanda Loveland. And I am Jessica devenish. Welcome to the conversation. Here we are. Part Two least we nobody knew this, but we have a part. And there's more. Part Three of the mental health conversation, I think what's been interesting for me to notice is, you know, you and I started doing this, and I, especially it shifted, like we mentioned in our first podcast from forging your path, and we're gonna write a book, to now what is personal is universal and talking about our stories. And I'm like, yeah, I'm sure we'll do a couple podcasts. It's just you and I, and then we'll have guests on. And it's like, oh, maybe 90% of these podcasts will be you and I, we have actually a lot of things to share. I think so once in a while maybe bring on someone new that can add, layer, another layer. Another story, another perspective. 100%. But you and I both felt after listening to the last one. Our last podcast was I think we both recognize it was a little, maybe surfaces the wrong word, but it was surfacey. Yeah. And I think people are asking more questions about energetics. And my daughter, my son, I've had similar stories, similar experiences. What did you do? What What more did you do? Because I didn't finish the conversation about 2019. Yeah. And I had made the comment about I changed. So I've had a couple people say, Tell me more. Yeah, what does that mean? What did you do? Yeah. And you need to share more about your story. And maybe I will tapped into like, oh, tell me more. As I was listening back. I'm like, Oh, I want to know more about that. Yeah. With your husband in the borderline personality experience that you had? Yeah. Well, I think it's that double edged sword, like we talked about in the last one. Here's these labels. And, you know, I shared my personal story of being labeled as something and then using it as a crutch. And then with your example with your daughter, it was a relief for her to understand, okay, this is what's going on. And it's that double edged sword or that middle, that middle way of how do we walk? You know, when we have someone that we love that's been diagnosed with something or we personally have been diagnosed with something, how do we walk that middle way of having that as information and not something that rules and runs, runs our life or having that rule and run our life on the other side, having your daughter, your loved one that you just automatically are always using that as an excuse for them to or as a rationale for Well, that's why they behave this way. Instead of that's just you know, I talking to my friend today who I had mentioned the last podcast, and we were just chatting about how, and I mentioned this to I've learned what my boundaries are, what my edges are, and what I need. For me personally, I need alone time we talked about just before we start recording, like baths are huge for me. 10 doing Epsom salts, or sea salt and baking soda actually is really good for clearing the energetic field. And so I'll do that, especially when I'm moving a lot of energy. I'll do that once a day, every day for like two weeks straight. Sometimes I'll take two Bad's in a day, just depending on where I'm at energetically. But for me personally, I have to have alone time or I will my body will actually trigger migraines and for like bad migraines, where it forces me in bed. And I have I have I hit a wall and I my body literally shuts down. I know my friend was talking about how if she doesn't sleep, sleep is her number one indicator she doesn't start if she doesn't sleep, it will trigger her episodes her thing. So diet balance, having structure and life sleep are are things that she's recognized she has to have, which I think you know, that's a good, good god. Every single one of us needs balance in our life. I feel better in general, if I'm eating healthier versus if I'm eating like crap and staying up till two in the morning and not getting sleep. You know, it's just right and making those choices to do that. Oh, I need to write a check in. Yeah, I think I need to drink more water. Right. self care. The self care, self care, self care, right? Yeah, for sure. Even walking outside and putting your feet in the dirt. Yeah, putting your feet on the grass. Yeah. Those kinds of things are energetic tools. Also. Mm hmm. My grounding. earthing is what it's called, especially if you're doing barefoot and the kicker is actually disconnecting from everything and just being really connected into the earth and the feel of your feet on the earth. It's also something that's used to get you like when you travel. earthing is something to use to get you into the rhythm of the timezone that you're shifting into. So doing bare feet on the ground will connect you to the earth there where you're at. It's It's a tool that's been used for However long centuries old, another self care tool that I like is just every day, just making sure your energy bubble, your aura. I mean, it's called lots of different things. Just your energy bubble to simplify it is making sure that it is. I always do an exercise where if you put your arms out straight, that's where your energy bubble kind of is top to bottom, under your feet above your head outside that bubble, in making sure you pull your energy in and disconnect from those people pulling your energy. Yeah, you know, I literally unplugged people from my second and third chakra. That is a standard process, because I tend to give a lot. And sometimes that's not healthy for me. It's not healthy for the other person either. So I unplugged their energy. And then I pull my energy back that maybe I gave away throughout the day. Yeah, no real genic tool. Yeah, I love that toy. And that's one that I give. And I actually teach pretty often to do at night and in the morning, is using your imagination. Because a lot of times when people get new into the energetics, they don't know. And that just is such like this huge, broad topic of I don't I don't understand what that is. And the reality is, is everything is energy. We know that we know scientifically that an atom is 99.99999% space. And science is now showing more and more that that's energy, you know, somebody can walk into a room and feel that there was a something just happened, nothing was said but I can feel the uncomfort the discomfort or something happened. That's energy, you know, we're experiencing that our energetic body because we are energy we are 99.99% space. So we're energy. So if we don't understand that we're an energetic, living, breathing thing, that every day we have these ACCION o fibers that go out from us and connect to people and things and electronics every single day. So at night, I teach Yeah, you go through, you use your imagination. And your intention of I'm unplugging, I'm disconnecting from anything that's no longer serving, and I'm imagining all these little fibers, all these little, whatever you want to call it, coming back into my being known and unknown, and pulling it all back in and pulling in the energy and disconnecting and sending out any energy that's not mine out. And doing that in the night, at night. And in the morning, because I'm in the morning, you know, Dream time we travel, whether you recognize it or not wearing so many different places. And so it's a really, really beautiful practice to do. In fact, I just posted a video yesterday about this is funny, this podcast is going a little differently than I think you and I both realized, but we'll get into the meat of what we wanted to discuss. But how how many of us are really aware of what our energetic body feels like? You know, are you really aware, Jessica, of what your energy feels like so intimately that you know when energetics that are not yours are coming in? Yeah, when it's not your energy in your space. Yeah. And because we're not taught that at a young age, it's something that is definitely a practice and definitely something you're learning in your energy bubble. Getting is goes very large, depending on the person, or very small, depending on where they're at, and the emotions and all sorts of things. So you can actually play with that you can beef it out, you can pop it up as a protection layer, I've taught my children to actually create a forcefield around them that's mirrored with when you're having someone in your life that is emotionally abusive, for example, you can put in a put around you a bubble that is mirrored so that when they're saying things, you're imagining it bouncing back and reflecting to them. So it doesn't come in and emotionally attack you energetically. Does that make sense? And I feel like that is a good tool, even as kids because forcefield they get on to put a force field around my my body that is allowing me to go Okay, I'm hearing everything you're saying. But I'm not taking it in and it's actually bouncing back and sending to the person. Because really, if somebody is emotionally abusive, whatever they're trying to do, and trying to attack has nothing to do with you has everything to do with that person. Right. Right. So that's a that's a tool and that's actually leads in to what you what you were touching on with how what did you do with Courtney, where you said you you changed? What what what did you change? What did that look like? Well, I think when something's the definition of insanity, right? The same thing keeps happening and you're unhappy with the outcome then let's let's choose differently, you know, and decide not what you just said to I think that it's important. I teach my kids and I want to share this because it's coming up from an energetic perspective. If you're having an emotion, emotion is energy in motion. Yep. And allowing that to flow through you Whether you get in the bathtub, and visualize the image, you know your imagination, image nation, you see those images and you just break down what they mean and what it's teaching you and letting it flow through you. Yeah. And not judging it. Why am I feeling angry? Why am I feeling lonely? Why am I feeling unhappy? Because when you're when you're excited and happy and peaceful, you're not questioning those things. But on the opposite side, we share question a lot, when we're not happy, we try to analyze it make sense of it, why it's wrong again, instead of just letting the energy move through, I had a way I really want to come back to the this piece, but I'm going to touch on this really quick too. I had a with my migraines, I had a very, very big awareness that came in and and session that I did with trying to understand I knew there was something it felt energetic energetics were coming in, and it was getting stuck in my head. And what I realized is what I'm doing is I'm having massive energy coming in, and my brains trying to make sense of it, because I'm a very logical person. So I'm wanting to understand it, and make sense of it. And what happens is, it's like a traffic jam. And it's like this, this huge, you know, this spigot of water, you know, like a fire hose coming in, and I'm trying to narrow it down through this tiny little seive, or, you know, a tiny or so it's like all this pressure building up that creates a migraine. What I recognize too, is part of our feeling body actually connects us to our Christ consciousness or Christ itself. It's part of what when we allow for the energy and the emotion to flow through us. It actually is upgrading our DNA, upgrading ourselves, it's doing all sorts of things. In fact, this is such a tangent. I believe that's partly what Christ was filling in in gesamten was India 70. I don't know if he literally bled from Everly every pore, but he was feeling all the energy feeling all the emotions of everybody on the planet, which was intense, partly because of how in his ascension and what he was progressing through and working through with his physical body to do what he needed to do. That was one of the aspects that was part of him up leveling, was going through that, feeling it allowing it to completely come in and not process or not analyze it, just let it be. Because when we have experiences on the soul level, how hard is it to communicate your experience? It's almost impossible. Well, I teach like, if you love somebody explained, describe to me how you love me? Yeah, there are no, there are no word that's just a knowing the feeling. And they'll experience Yeah, same thing with our emotional body. Like we don't have to process and understand what it is. Sometimes it's just information that's coming through that our soul is asking us to have because it's up leveling us in one way or another. I totally agree with that. 100%. I'm glad you shared that. Because I think that's important for people to hear that and understand that, you know, I think Mel Robbins is the articular reactivating system that she did she teach us from a science perspective. So if a lot of this is woowoo for some people, right, there's the science side of it, too. Yeah. So the reticular activating system is where as human beings, our human experience we're bringing in like, I think it's something like 40 million bits of information all at one time. But the reticular activating system, our bodies are hardwired to we're so used to only bringing in 30 of those. So everything else is just cutting off. You're not taking in any of that. Yeah. Because it's it's familiar. If you're only taking in what's familiar, the rest comfortable, it's comfortable. And you're just, which is where cognitive dissonance comes in and all other thing, but yeah, I think that that's important to kind of understand that. We only take in what we're used to anything else is like, Oh, that's unfamiliar to me. Well, that emotion that's unfamiliar or feels icky. Yeah, it's just let it flow. And don't judge it and let it be. Let it turn on that light that Christ consciousness that you're talking about. And connecting to that energy and letting it like light you up. Let it teach you whatever it needs to teach you if that's what it's there to do. Oh, we didn't we chose to have physical bodies in this incarnation and they're there to serve a purpose and this is part of it is that emotional demotion body of feeling a feeling like it is such a huge part of our of our whatever you want to call it a hate Ascension I hate I guess progression, maybe it's just part of understanding the mind body soul connection. Like they're all it's that triangle, the trip the triad. And to the science part heart, the heart math Institute, I was just watching a video that was talking about this. They did a study where they hooked up people to all the monitors, and they put them in front of a computer screen and the screen would flash an image whether it'd be fearful or soothing. And there'd be a three second delay between each image. The heart would register the image before it even was shown. So if it was something that they were going to react fearfully to the heart would start increasing, right? If it was something that was before they even saw the image. And so what they're saying is as far as science that that our intuitive mind actually lives in the heart, the heart knows what's about to what's about to happen to us. Now, it's not always a three second thing, it could be a day before or a week before, you know, sometimes you just have that something's telling me that something, whatever it is, like, I knew my dad was gonna die of cancer or that he had cancer and I had a dream about it before he even told us. And we I feel like a lot of us have had those those moments. But that science that's there that's showing us that our intuitive mind actually lives in the heart in the heart. Now they're doing more and more studies that show that Yep, it knows what's about to happen before it happens. And, and when we're in an emotional response, and the heart is beating quicker than tuition, the intuitive heart mind kind of takes a backseat. So it's a good reminder that when you're in that emotional state, you cannot make intuitive, wise, intuitive choices. It's just not available. So those are the times to take a breath to calm down. I just, I just posted about this today. Yeah, put your hands on your heart. And then ask what what's my answer here in the heart space, not the head. You know, can our head be in service to the heart, instead of us being in service to the head all the time and letting that lead through? Yeah, even just simple pause. Yeah, he's a great and I'm brattle breath always brings you into the Now moment. Yeah. Why you why you were saying that it reminded me when my husband's brother was killed in the car accident. Yeah. I mean, he was we were in Utah, the brother was in Wyoming. We were having lunch, and he went to take a bite of a sandwich. And he felt this sick feeling. something wasn't right. And that was the time that his brother died. made an offer a few hours later. But he's like, I knew something wasn't right. I couldn't I just had this heart hurt. Yeah. And yeah, well, speaking of that, it talks about I want to talk about energetics in that. In the body, the body is the when we have energy, our body responds. So one of my first introductions to energetic energetics was Louise L. Hay, and you can heal your life. Yeah. And a lot of people say that's kind of woowoo. And that's kind of crazy. And my description is similar to what I shared before, describe how you love someone, there are no words. The same is true is someone the love, let's say that they they hurt you or they get your child like crashes on their bike. You have your your stomach, what happens when you physically see somebody that you love hurting, you physically get a cell stomach feeling. So that is energetics. That is a connection that you're feeling. So my first introduction to energetics was when I had my brain tumor in 1994. It'll actually be 27 years tomorrow, that I had brain surgery. And that opened the door for me Louise L. Hay was the first gateway. And she teaches that disease is dis ease in the body. Yeah. So any ailment that you're filling in throughout your body. It's it's speaking to you, it's talking to you. So when we listen, and we look deeper, that is such a powerful experience. Oh 100%. That's, I got an The reason why I got into energetics was when I was diagnosed with bipolar. And then I started having little things in my life that were just trying to present itself just people that would talk about energetics and, and then having the experience of being on all the medication, and then gaining weight, having side effects and getting diagnosed something else to counter effect the side effect from this pill. I mean, it was I think at one point I was on six different medications. And I'm like this, this isn't right, like something, there's something else that would make more sense than this because this isn't working. And that's when I really I feel like I've always had a natural affinity to wanting to know energetics. But that was like a big to your point of there's something deeper here. There's something that's not quite working and this science or this medical way of doing things isn't is not the answer. Yeah. So those are some tools that I think we could share with our listeners is Louise Oh, hey, you can heal your life. Filling fillings alive never die. I can't think of the author Barry. Yeah, that's not well, we'll we'll find it we can put it into the notes in the podcast. And Deepak not debunk Joe dispenza Joe dispenza is one of my favorites. Me too. In fact, we have the book sitting in front of us breaking the habit of being yourself is a beautiful book and, and was a godsend to me in when I talked about knowing my my boundaries of depression. And it's interesting sometimes when we look back, we don't understand why we're going through different events in our life. And then something major will happen and that it was like this is why I knew what my boundaries were. So when I was in my relationship, my third marriage, this I had a two annulments I've been married four times two enrollments. So This is my second enrollment, and he was borderline personality disorder now, and that that was a very intense relationship. And I've never experienced anything like that in my life. And that was partly why I wrote my book because I, I didn't know, I didn't even know I was in abusive relationship until someone said something to me later on. And, you know, I, again, I had mentioned this in my last podcast, I feel like I'm a pretty strong, dynamic woman. And so to look back and go, how how did I allow that to happen was a big healing thing that I had to sit with. And again, there's something within me that was an affinity for that and attraction for that there was a resonance there for that for a piece that needed to be learned. And going through that relationship, you know, he had, he had isolated me from my friends and family, because he was very romantic. I mean, talk about the knight in shining armor kind of guy that comes in, whoops, you know, swoops in and like, just the, like, all the fairy tale romanticism. And then when we got a little bit more into where he felt safe in the relationship, at night, his demons would come out, and he would even call them his demons, and he would turn into a completely different person. And it was to say it was traumatic is an understatement. And this was our cycle for our entire relationship. And we had had all sorts of different things that had happened. He was very highly sexual, he needed to have sex many times a day, and there was a lot of things that were forced, and I allowed it because if I didn't, then I would get the aftermath or the side effect of his moods coming out and his aggression. And it was it was, I mean, good god heart wrenching that relationship. And we got to it. We started seeing a counselor after and after, it was my mom who said, I finally broke down to her and shared something that had happened, and I can't remember what it was. And my mom said to me, she goes, Mandy, that's abuse. And it was like this huge lightbulb of like, holy shit, you're right. What? And I shared it with him. And at the time, my mom was one of our allies to him, you know, you mentioned that they always have to have somebody that they're attacking and everyone else when he was attacking, but my mom was one of the allies. And so he took it really serious. And so we started seeing a counselor who later on, you know, he attacked her, of course, when she could start seeing through him. That's what, in my experience, that's what they do. And but we started seeing a counselor and I started, there was one moment where we is a little bit of a long story, and I apologize, but it feels to share it. There was one moment where we were in Michaels, we were shopping for something, and he got triggered, he always got triggered by like, whether it was a pass something on like I had my family pictures of my ex husband with my kids, Dad, I had to get him out of the house, he could even have in the house that cut out the face of you know, Patrick couldn't be in anything like there was he was so jealous, and so possessive. And I was protective of our relationship. I loved him. So I did a lot of those things. I got rid of a lot of stuff. And so something had triggered him yet again. And he blew up, he threw his wedding ring, which he would do, and it went bouncing down the aisles. And I started getting to a point to where I was like, you know, enough. And so I didn't react like I did. I was just like, Here we go again. And he he's like, I'm done. I'm done. I'm not doing this anymore. I'm out, I'm out. I'm out. And so he takes off out of the store. And I continue I went down, picked up his wedding ring, put it in my purse, continue shopping, and then the stream of texts come in because that's what would happen. You don't love me like benedetta You're not my her your, you know, so and so love me better than you did all sorts of these things are you're smiling because I'm sure there's some things that are familiar. And and I had the car keys. And so I went and got in the car and started driving home because I'm like, I'm tired of this. I used to feed it. Please don't I love you come back, blah, blah, blah. And I do this better. And I was like, No, I'm not doing this anymore. So he's starting to start driving home and he calls me. And as I'm like I answer and I'm like, what's up? And he's like, Please, I'm so sorry. So all of a sudden he switches right. I'm so sorry. Please come get me and I said I'm tired. I'm tired of doing this. Like I can't do this anymore. Like I I physically can't do it. I know that. But look how quick we're changing this data data therapies working. Come get me so I go get them. And we drive home and I knew the usual pattern would happen. Sex is next. And I was not in the place to connect like I was I was starting to come around like this is not I'm done with this. So I faked a migraine. And he said I don't feel good. I know you want to connect I don't feel good, but I need to I need to lay down and so and he's like okay, go lay down. So I close my door. And I go in my room and I'm laying down and I I felt and I had such a deep knowing I was going down Pet a very dark pit. And if I chose to stay in this relationship, I would never come out in that pit I was very familiar with because of my depression. I knew what it felt like in that pit. And it was such a big awareness that I'm like, shit. I'm not doing that. What do I do? Because I did genuinely love him, and the capacity that I could at that time in that relationship. And I had isolated myself from all my friends. So I was like, Who do I call? And I had one friend that had always been very unconditional in her love. And I called her. And I said, I told her name's Holly, it's not our Holly. It's a different Holly. And I said, Holly, what do I do? I love him. She's like, of course you love him, like love is everything. Of course you love him. But that doesn't mean you stay. And she's like, if you choose to stay, I will love you. If you choose to leave, oh, I will be so happy. And she's like, I will support you either way. And that was what I needed to learn this relationship. It didn't matter if I loved him. It mattered that I loved myself more and that I was gonna choose me and step out of that relationship. And I mean, to this day, even as I was telling, like, that was such a pivotal moment for me in my life. And the next day, I ended up my mom was out in Maui. And I called her I'm like, Mom, I have to be done. She's like, we'll come out, come out to Maui, get a break. And when you start standing up for yourself in a relationship like that, and it's challenging, you know, that night that I told him, he was he, he flipped out at me, we're at a restaurant, and he ended up joining us with my kids. And he yelled at me in front of the whole, he's like, Are you kidding? You're not choosing us. You're, you're stepping out. And I just I tried to play calm and like, just get my kids attention. And luckily, it was a short outburst. And he left. And that night, in the middle, I end up sleeping downstairs in my daughter's room. And he came came down with a beanie on his head. And he, he would have this other persona, and I won't say his name just because of whatever. But he had this other persona that he would say, you know, whatever. And he's like, we'll see if you get through security tomorrow, you know, and kinda was alluding that he left something in my suitcase. And then the next day, as I'm driving, trying to get out of the driveway, he was blocking my car, you wouldn't let me leave. And I ended up he had punched a hole in the wall and did some different things that you know, scary. And like what what's going to actually happen to threaten suicide? I'm gonna kill myself. I'm done. I and I just held my ground. I'm like, no, that experience for me was so like, powerful that I would not allow myself to sacrifice who I was. And my kids, for the sake of this one person. And I ended up filing an emergency. Law straining order. Yes, the restraining order, and I flew out to Maui. Good for you. And I'm so grateful. You had that friend. Yeah, you and I both. And making sure that you had somebody to ask you the question to go within? Because if we can, if we pause that pause to go within, we always know the answers on where we go next. Yeah. 100%. So I'm grateful that for your Holly, not our Holly, that Holly, another amazing Holly, who is one of the most loving people I know. And she has had a very challenging life herself. I'm so grateful that you came through all that rain and all of the those shadows, those dark moments are make you equally grateful for the pendulum, the pendulum swinging, right, really high highs and really low lows. Those lows really give you insight and perspective. Well, yeah, and I have, you know, deeper are not Deepak accusing Dr. Joe dispenza. The reason why it made me think of this story is maybe a month after we had met, it wasn't even that long, I was back home he was out, which that whole process was pretty traumatic. But I was laying in bed and I felt, I don't know if I can't remember if I shared this already. But I felt the emotions and the surge of adrenaline coming in craving drama. And I almost i was like i because he was texting me at the time and try and do in his little charming thing. And there's that part of me that was like, okay, maybe he can change, you know, all the things you want them to change, especially where you left them. Yeah. And I remember so vividly. Joe dispenza talks about that. I mean, I can see that the neural pathways have been formed around the trauma and the drama and the stress. So of course, the chemicals were dumping because I was so used to the cycle. And again, it was another like, No, I'm not choosing that. No, I'm not doing this. And I was grateful that I had that awareness. This is what that is. It's not a lot of times we think we need to react to Oh, I'm feeling this I need that, you know, whether it be an addiction or whatever. And it's like no, this is just programs that have been running in my brain that I've created those neural pathways I've been fortifying, fortifying, fortifying because the pattern has been over and over and over again. And the chemicals are attached to it. So when you start breaking those patterns, that chemical dump happens without the you know, whatever it is. And yeah, it just takes some time to unwind those programs was at the beginning of the end of that marriage. Oh, yeah, it was it was done. That was done. Yeah, I was came back from Maui. Yeah, I mean, that's, yeah, it'd be a longer story. But our relationship in total lasted nine months. But it felt like a couple years, I learned a lot very quick. And that relationship, and I'm grateful it was short. So just for the sake of my kids, they didn't witness a whole lot. Be well, in, you're standing up for yourself and in your own power, in and of itself teaches your children that strength, that Warrior Within? Yeah, I think his parents are like to my kids, we went through this hard thing to my kids need therapy? I think we sometimes Yes. And sometimes watching us navigate those life experiences is the most profound therapy they can. Yeah. And seeing you step into your strength. Yeah. Yeah, I don't know. I have a I don't know. They're amazing kids, my kids, and they've had a lot of trauma in their life in general. So, but they're amazing gifts. But shifting gears. I mean, you're not you know, you're smiling as I'm sharing my story. And I would imagine that it's somewhat similar in how, what with Courtney, what was the change when you're talking about, you know, a cycle? What's his you know, what's the definition of insanity? Well, that borderline personality piece that, you know, we're both have experienced, and I had a boyfriend in high school, too. Now that you're sharing that story, I know, you know, that. I knew that wasn't a healthy relationship later on. But in the moment, he was very romantic. Very wanted me all to himself. Yeah, we don't, we wouldn't. We would hide from friends when they would come over to hang out. And so it's interesting that you're sharing that? Because looking back, you know, us against the world? Oh, yes, for sure. And you think that's love? Yeah. Well, we're kind of conditioned that in our movies. You're charming. That's funny. We were talking about with a friend, Little Mermaid. The other day, I mean, she changes into, she gives up her life with her family under the sea. For the love of a man that she just barely met. Right? She now has length. Yeah. So interest. I mean, that's a side note. But it's interesting that you know, they swoop in and you have this love rescuer. Version. Before this love, when really what I want to teach our children, we can have all the relationships, that you don't need to choose one to have the other, right. But yeah, I want to post on our Facebook page, the nine symptoms of borderline personality, because I think when I first learned that my daughter had borderline personality disorder, I immediately thought is that multiple personalities? What does that mean? And there's a wide spectrum, there's nine symptoms, I'll post it on the Facebook page. And I know that, you know, maybe your experience, he was on the higher end. And maybe he had all those symptoms. She was on the lower end. So she was what they explained was not she was a lower spectrum of things. But she would do that thing where the texts, the incessant texting, and the constantly reaching out for attention. And as a mom, it's hard to say, it feels like I'm being mean to say what she just wanted to get attention in those kinds of things. But that really is what was happening. And me finding my borders, the edges, like you said, and I would have to let her sink when she was at the residential facility. One of the biggest times she shifted was we didn't go to the family night for two weeks in a row, nor did we go to our family therapist. Oh, wait, hold on before you can do that. Sorry, what made you decide to do that? to not go? Because she was just acting out in a way that we weren't moving forward. And so we knew we had to let her sink, you kind of wait too long, you can imagine like, fall into that. Your darkness? Yeah. And she's the only one that could pull herself out of that. So and by not showing up, was letting her know that we were not tolerating that behavior. You're not enabling it. There was and the second week, so we didn't go to the family night, we didn't go to therapy. And she was pretty mad about that, or not the beginning of boundaries, right. And then in 2019, you know, we had had a good year and a half, I didn't have the tools. I alluded to that on the last conversation, you know, I didn't have the tools. I she started doing that thing again, where the incessant text started coming in. And it was just this constant need for that. And I really struggled on the fine line between discipline and walking on eggshells because I didn't want her to take her life. Right? Of course you don't. Nobody didn't know how to parent a child was suicide ideation because every every time and she pushed all the boundaries with all of the other The house rules. Yeah, I'm a mom. I'm a parent, we have house rules, right? You have curfew. And you pick up your house, your bedroom after you're done and you participate in house chores. And those are the expectations, right? Yeah. And she pushed all the boundaries of all of those. To the point where I mean, I really didn't. She was all the other kids are like, well, Courtney has like, a free for all. Yeah, yeah, totally. And remember, I talked about at the residential facility, they had a very structured, strict, they had to be embedded certain time they had breakfast at a certain time, like, we talked about in the beginning how important the structure was two people that do have Yeah. And so and we didn't, she didn't have that, and, and all the other kids had that. But I was becoming very, like, loose. And when she came home, so she had changed, and she had done better. And then I, I think I didn't do better. When she came home. I wasn't prepared. Yeah. So I finally realized it was an eye opening moment when I realized that the way she treated her father. And the way she treated me were inherently different. Why is that? She would never speak to Kelly, the way she spoke to me. And that in something shifted, I went, this is a choice, she's making a choice to treat me one way and to treat Kelly and other relationships a different way. And that's when I knew that something inside of me had changed, needed to change. And I had to let her I didn't know what at the time, but I had to let her sink into that dark hole that only she could pull herself out of like she did the residential facility, she had to pull out itself out of that hole for us to come back to family night and come back to therapy. And I saw the same pattern happening. So I I had to stop answering the phone calls, the in the middle of night phone calls and the incessant texts, just talking about how she was going to end her life and how, you know, you're terrible. This is terrible. Everything was just so heavy and deep for her. And she wanted me to fix it. And it wasn't for me to fix. There's nothing I could do. And it was causing resentment with my other children because all of my attention was on her it was causing resentment in my marriage. And we weren't on the same page. And when I realized that she treated him differently than me. I knew that. That's what I knew. So I stopped. I stopped answering the phone calls and mother night. And these were phone calls that she wanted to take her own life. Yeah. And I remember one night I was sitting in the bedroom, and I just sat and I had to put my phone on the other room. And I just was sobbing in a ball in my closet. just praying that she would just find her way, find her way. Because it was for her it was her journey. And she needed to find her way. And I knew that I had to come to terms with the fact that I was more I was prepared for her to take her own life if that was her journey. I was I was more concerned about the boundaries, the healthy boundaries with relationships in her life because she didn't have any healthy boundaries with me and and her siblings. And how could she have a positive marriage? Right, if that's what she wanted, or being a mom with her own children. So I was I was prepared to know to accept the fact that my role here is to just teach her boundaries for myself too. And those edges, she was pressing the infield edges when I needed to stand up for myself to Yeah, because she was using well, Mom, I have all these things. And so that's why I'm doing it. It was a crutch or get out of jail free card will because I have excused her behavior totally. And, and I felt that for a while before I knew better. And that's a fine line. It's a real fine line to having discipline to understanding the behavior, the borderline, and anxiety, depression things people go through and having a boundary for yourself to like I had hired a woman who helped me she coached me through that. And Courtney knew that I was working with her because I had introduced Courtney to her and she did not Courtney did not like her. Oh, yeah. And some of the things that this therapist said to her. I had said to Courtney and Courtney knew it was like you're talking to her and I know you are those those martyrs? Yes. And I'm like, and things like I am not going to be your punching back. Yeah. Oh, that would just light her. I'm not going to be your punching bag. And I'm not going to. I'm going to get off the merry go round with you. Yeah, she did not like those things. Those were huge triggers for her and it got way worse before it got better. And that one particular night sitting in my closet. I I didn't know if this was going to be the night that she finally decided to follow through. And I I just had to come to peace with that was her path then that was her path. And if she was going to stay on this earth and be part of life, then boundaries needed to be taught and that was the only way I knew how to Teach boundaries was to show that I had my own to teach her that I can love you wholeheartedly and unconditionally into the depths of my soul as a mom loves. I love you enough to know that I It is my role to teach you boundaries, healthy boundaries, establish healthy relationships. Yeah. And it's 100% and 100%. I'm a big believer, it's not 5050 it's 100% 100%. And at that time, it was it was really kind of what Courtney wanted, decided that relationship. And if she wasn't happy, then we didn't do that. And it was the first time that I got a little posture lien pushed back a little bit. With the help of this coach, saying, I love you enough to teach you boundaries. I love you enough to say no, I love you enough to say that's not okay. I love you enough to say, I won't be your punching back. While all of this to me, is it you were saying to yourself that you loved you enough? Because that I feel like is a huge piece? As a parent, yes, I hear what you're saying with teaching your child but it's really it was you that was going I love me enough that I'm not going to let this and then that example. Well, it's different, like with a husband more relationship, you send it for yourself, when you send it for yourself with the child. It's a different dynamic, because you feel like I can stand on my power. And I'm your mom. So now I'm like pushing you away. Except for everyone, especially kids. And if there's inner child, they need boundaries, boundaries actually feel safe. That's why the structure would work. Boundaries feel safe. That is true. And that probably is what because once I once I realized my boundaries, then she that she could feel hers, too. So did you see like a dramatic shift? Or was it all 100% pretty quick. Or when you click happened? I mean, like I said, I got really ugly before I got better, right? Because I was changing. Yeah. And she didn't like that. Yeah, she did not like that. And, and part of that, too, was watching my other kids. They there was some resentment building against their sister. Yeah. And be not seeing them in such a confusing time. Right. And there was some resentment towards me as the mom too, because I was walking on eggshells, and she didn't have any clue. What's the word? When you do something wrong, and they have consequences? Yeah, there was no consequences with Courtney, because I was walking on eggshells so much, that I just let her get away with so much. While and as you're talking, again, this is such a fine line. But really, I know you and I have similar beliefs. When we work with anyone, you're holding them in their god selves. And they're God's self doesn't have the label, it doesn't have all these things. It's just their god stuff of how their soul is wanting to express in this life. So then, how do I with a child? How do I go ever? Because all of our children are so unique. So how do I work with them in a way and talk to them in their language? My one child, I have to set up expectations and boundaries, very firm boundaries. Or he gets away with everything. Yeah. And similar to you. I mean, it's a completely different story. But there's similarities were there as the kids are like, Oh, well, of course, he got away with that, because that's just how it is. And well, they tease me about my youngest son, because he's a baby and he gets away with Well, that's a totally different thing. Yeah. Then walking on eggshells, because you, you can't, I didn't feel like I could parent properly. Because if I pushed her too hard, she could take her own life. And then that's on me. Yeah. And to say out loud, that I was prepared to accept that as part of her journey. was a it was it was a very intense, deep, profound, knowing. Yeah. That that's what I needed to do. And, and you're right, you know, leaning her to our own God self into her own answers. She had she I had to allow her to go within, you had to let her go. I had to let her go. Which is one of the most letting go and let God is really what I did. I mean, I prayed so hard. I just was crying. And again, you know, it was becoming between my marriage. We were not. We were on on the same page. In that I had just let it overcome me. Yeah. And I think he was watching me just lose myself in that, and he loved me. I mean, he loves me, he was he was having a hard time seeing me hurt. And that was a whole nother part of that relationship. Right? Anytime that she would come at me and those outbreaks and those like very, they were, they were intense. And you know, like, they come at you and they I mean, the screaming and the yelling and they know where to hit. Oh, they know where to hit. And so he would get upset with her because you don't talk to your mom that way. You don't talk to anyone that way. And she she will she would say you know you guys are a team and you're against me, and I'm sure for a lot of kids. And especially in her case she probably felt that way. Yeah, you guys are against me. And you know, as parents you aren't usually are on the same team. There's a lot of manipulation. We lived in the same house and there was a lot of manipulation. Yeah, like her, and I would have a conversation about not doing something. And then she would ask dad, dad didn't know that we had had that conversation. And like, where'd Courtney go? Oh, well, she went with zone. So I told her she couldn't do that. Oh, well, I didn't know that. And so she really played that up more than just like a child does. Yeah. So she did feel like it was the she was her against the world. Like we were always on the same team. Yeah. And she didn't like when. And that's a that's an interesting dynamic as parents, right. So he would have a hard time seeing me, hurt. And if he got mad at her, I would get mad at him right. Now around and around you go, which. And she kind of liked that as she got, like you were saying that thrill of the drama. The that you felt right that your body was meeting it, I think she got a thrill from watching us fight over her. While this is the drama triangle or the triangle disempowerment where someone steps into the victim, perpetrator and rescuer. And when you're I would it sounds like you guys danced around that triangle all the time. In in the triangle, when your step when you're on one of the corners, you have two other people, right, there's always then there's two other people that are hanging out the other roles. And when we step off, when we choose to step out of the triangle, it actually frees up the other two people. And when you're on it, the feeling is so worldly. And it's challenging to make conscious, calm decisions, because you're just reacting, you're reacting, you're reacting, you're reacting because you're in whatever fight or flight you're in whatever trauma response, whatever it is. So sometimes it can it can be difficult in the triangle disempowerment is one of my favorite tools to teach people and I did do a video about it a while ago. So I'll post that in the show notes, because I think a lot of people aren't aware of it. And one of my favorite things to do is in retreats, which you've done is actually step into that triangle energetically visit like physically go into each corner, because every when we 70 each corner, we're benefiting from something we're benefiting from being there's a reason why Courtney wanted to be the victim. She was getting attention she was, you know, there's a reason why all of us choose each corner to step into. And you're right. When I stepped off, I gave her permission to step off. Uh huh. Yeah, it freed it up. It's like, Okay, I guess we're doing things different now. Understanding that drama triangle has been a very powerful tool. Yeah, very powerful. I, I think you should post it, because I think people would find, well, what's fascinating is our world is on it. Our planet is literally on the drama triangle right now rescuer, victim and perpetrator. And a lot of people have been looking for who's going to rescue us whether you're religious, and it's Jesus is going to come and save us or it's the vaccine or the president or whoever it is. Everyone's looking, not everyone, but a lot of people in the mass population is looking for someone to rescue, which means they're in a victim. Yep. And when you're in a victim mentality, you're making choices from a victim mentality and not empowered one. So it's fascinating to witness the world. The world is a stage and we're all players. It's like, it's really interesting to Step Take a step out of it, step off the triangle and go, wow, this is fascinating. Yeah, go within, get off and go within a while and just watch and observe from such a different place of what's really happening on the planet. And we are all over on this podcast. We are all over on this podcast. The other thing I wanted to share about Courtney and I can't think of what it was, but somebody had asked me a question following the podcast. When I had said to the mom, about the residential facility, you know, what have you done that? Oh, yeah. I think one thing that I really wanted to make clear about why I felt strongly that I was bold to tell her that she should look at a residential facility is her daughter was under 18. And as parents, I know, when my daughter attempted on February of 2017, she was 17. And once they turn 18, you you you have no choice to send them to a residential facility. Or you have to what was a routine you don't get their routine is what I'm okay. Okay. But you as the parent, you're the guardian. So you can put them in a residential facility again, whether they want to whether they want to or not. And so that's one thing I think I wanted to share was why I felt so strongly about recommending that to the mom especially was since it was a second attempt. When when she was searching when when she was 17. Yeah, is because you are the guardian. Getting them in right away before they turn 18 if it is a pattern If you do feel like you have run out of resources, and it is affecting your family environment with your other children, and you don't feel like you can keep them safe. I mean, we were hiding. My, my daughter, my other daughters, they had to hide their razors, we had to hide our razors in our home, they'd be locked up to shave your links. Now, you know, and the Tylenol, ibuprofen, you know, what she had taken when she left that night is, you know, just all that, all of that stuff. And so your whole home, everything just becomes like this fortress, and you're changing everything. And it got to the point where the only thing that mattered was Courtney, and although that is a beautiful thing, and you do anything for your children, your other children, it's a very, it's a disheartening place to be for those children. No kidding. And as a mom, too. So anyway, I just wanted to share that I think that if you're feeling that way with your child, and they are under 18, and it's a second episode or a third episode, or this is a continual pattern, I'm not saying residential facility is the end all be all because it's a stepping stone, but it is a stepping stone and you're giving them tools, and you're giving yourself tools. And the home environment itself needed that pause. When we don't know what we don't know. And oftentimes, most parents, I mean, even if you think you're equipped and your child is exhibiting, then it's like you need you need help. Yeah, so get help. And don't think you can take it on, because that's, you know, we talked to earlier a little bit about how, especially as young moms, and if you have a child that's got colic, or all sorts of things, like it's important as women, as parents, as caregivers, that we do recognize where our limits are, and we ask for help when they're needed. You know what, whether you're on the side of my child's attempting to take her life, or I haven't slept in two days, and I need a bath, I need sleep, I need whatever. You know, I think oftentimes, we are horrible at admitting we don't know what we don't know, or that we need help, instead of and putting ourselves vulnerable. Yeah, putting ourselves first using you, right? You can't you know, that whole adage, hold on your oxygen mask on first. Yeah, there's truth in that. And that, and I kept visualizing that, too, that my oxygen mask was I was not getting oxygen and I needed to take care of me. Yeah. Because, you know, there was a lot of when I would say to her, you know, I'm not your punching bag, or you can't abuse me. Wow, she didn't like that. And maybe that was a terrible term, but it really, it pushed back. And I got her to like, look within, but that is how I was feeling. I felt like emotional abuse. Yeah, even though she was my daughter, and I loved her. And I knew she loved me. Doesn't mean her actions were. were affecting me. Actions speak louder than words. All the time. I didn't like when I said that, either. Oh, I have one person in my life that I say that to them. When they're trying to get away with something. It's like, great. We'll see what happens. Actions speak louder than words. And it drives this person crazy. But it's true. And that's part of holding boundaries will actually speak louder than words. So put your money where your mouth is, and, you know, put the effort in. Right. And I think they'll all of those things really kind of, she repeats a lot of that stuff to me now. And then positive or like a joke, or positive way. Yeah. So she Yeah, I think I don't know that we would be in a great place that we are now had I not? Yeah, done those things. And what you said to last time, about therapy's great and residential facilities are great, and finding an energy worker. Those really are the things that shifted her the most profound while to what we touched on before and then the book that you mentioned by Louise Hay, what happens is emotions or trauma will get stuck in the body. So usually, some trauma has happened. And then there's an something like cutting because I was just talking to another friend of mine who her daughter started cutting, and hers was in response to some trauma that she'd had at a very young age. And oftentimes those things are repressed, it gets held in the subconscious, because we don't want to look at it, it feels scary. I mean, we could go off on how many different things and then it starts presenting in the physical, the energetics get block, it gets held there. It creates some scars, you know, on our heart, like we talked about. And then we start having the outward expression of not having the tools equipped with how to move the energetics emotions through the different bodies. Because we have many layers. We have our physical body, the energetic anatomy, but we have our soul body and then the energetic matrix of us that is massive. I mean, it's huge. what's so cool is when we actually go into the energetics, you change your energetic matrix, because there's no such thing as time and space. So right now, in this now moment, if you and I were having a session and we went and healed some trauma, you now just rewrote it. And it actually moved seven generations back and seven generations forward. So in science is showing that we can have trauma in our DNA that comes forward seven generations there, they will have the same cortisol levels as an ancestor who was in the concentration camps will have an ancestor that's living today will have the same cortisol levels. The same is cortisol. linked to stress, right? Yes. Anyway, so science is now showing that there's a book, it didn't start, didn't start with you. That's a fascinating read. And I cannot remember his name, but he started a whole program called family constellations, that moves through healing the DNA and the family lines and shamans go through and he a lot of energy workers do. But yeah, I mean, a lot of times we have these things that are we're carrying with us that we we don't even know we're carrying with us. And so that's where you can go have cognitive therapy and do these things. But it's it's in the energetics and in the subconscious holding, and past lives, and all sorts of things in where it's held, or their soul contracts to where they need to be. There's so many things. I mean, I could talk for hours about this, because I love it so much. Well, and even the word trauma. There's there's different levels of trauma. And I remember when I was trying to find a residential facility for Courtney, and borderline personality, and just asking all these questions, you know, because what I had read was, may a major trauma has to happen in your life. So I was trying to figure out, was there something that happened to her that I didn't know about? Yeah, some kind of sexual trauma, some kind of emotional trauma that and maybe happened. And so I was really like, on this search to understand more. And I think it was in that one two hour conversation that I had with the gentleman at the boy's home. And what he shared with me really helped me understand trauma, because I was looking for some big massive of life altering theme. From my perspective, again, it's all about perspective on my awareness of a trauma was something bigger, bizarre, a loss of somebody like a parent. And he had said to me, he said, Well, trauma is different for everyone. So I had mentioned to her that my grandmother and our dog died in the same year. And Courtney had always kind of referred to those things. And I kind of brushed it off, quite honestly, because I felt like those were small, not that her grandma dying was small, but she was like, she was so young. She didn't have my older daughter. I didn't think that would affect her. And my older daughter. I mean, my grandmother babysat her every day, and she didn't have the same trauma response. So I really was kind of brushing off that. I felt like that was a crutch for her. Right, right. And so he had he had said to me, everyone's version of trauma, everyone's perspective, a trauma experience of trauma is so inherently different. So although that may not you've been through bigger traumas in your life, this was the biggest trauma for her up to that point of her life. So the dog dying and my grandmother dying. Was was a trauma for her. So yes, taking, you know, having the other kids come on live in the house, I kind of felt like that was it, but that those really weren't the things that she was referring to, in our sessions. It was the trauma of the loss of the dog dying the loss. Yeah. And you know, there was still that factor of what their dad can die, and their mom can leave can that happened to me, but it really kept kind of going around to this dog dying. And he just, it was profound. So I wanted to share that because the definition of trauma, the the perspective of trauma is so vast, and I was grateful that he shared that with me, because I understood her because I was looking for some big, something big one that allowed you to hold her in a different place to I would imagine, you know it. I feel like when we start understanding that, like you said, trauma is different for everyone. And someone that may view Well, if you've only experienced this and you don't you haven't really experienced trauma, but yet, in my experience, that trauma, let's say losing your dog could have actually linked to past lifetime experiences that she has in her subconscious. So when that happened, there's a filter of how she experienced that and it is rooted this trauma that's a part of her soul, a part of who she is because it's just his that is triggering old wounds that she has no idea about, or you wouldn't have any idea about. So it is a it's a big paradigm, a big perspective. shift of holding people in, this is their experience and we don't get we don't we don't have we don't get to say what this should look like for everybody. I think it's a good thing for anyone who's listening, including myself to be reminded of somebody who's experienced through life is 100% their own, what they're choosing how they're choosing, engage with People, whatever they've gone through, it's 100% theirs and they have every right to feel what they feel. And not comparing those traumas. Right? I mean, yeah, who has the best of the worst? Oh, well, you only experience that I've experienced. And it's like, Since when is this a pissing match? Like, you know? Yeah, pissing match. That's not the, you know what I mean? Yeah. Yeah. Where are we competing on who has the best of the worst story? And I didn't feel it. And I see that happening. I didn't like that's what I was doing. In this case, I was just trying to, as I didn't know, right, I was trying to dig deep like how, because another thing I learned about borderline was, and I and I could be not describing this correctly. But what I recall learning about it was it's like, you're kind of everyone's kind of born with those types of, I don't know, mental health issues and some some kind of trauma ignites them. You know, like she was potentially born with a borderline personality, maybe like you're saying, you know, we believe in those past lives. Maybe she brought that. And so but it doesn't have not everyone, it doesn't come alive. Unless a trauma ignites it. Yeah. And so once I had learned that I was trying to figure out what trauma. What kind of large tray? Yeah, makes sense. I would do this. I mean, I was asking her has somebody ever inappropriate, appropriately touched you? Have you ever had? She's like, No, none of those things? Yeah. So you know, as a parent, you want to help them get to the root of the cause of your things out so you can fix it? Yeah, yeah, we all got to fix our kids or whatever. Yeah. But you know, like, I've learned, nothing's broken, nothing needs to be fixed. You know, we all chose in the resonance of this experience was what I needed. For what I needed to learn. Yeah, so it was as much for me as it was for her. Yeah, and my other kids, too, you know, my, my Jamie has a tattoo, that that represents her experience with Courtney. And, you know, those are like that was in resonance to her. And they have that that connection, they all have that it creates that connection traumas, kind of create connections, beautiful experiences does, and that she had resonance, you know, with that, too, and that was a and my oldest son, the night that he was out looking for her. They were really close. They were really close. And after that happened, their relationship changed a little bit. And I think that was a protection mechanism for him. Oh, yeah. To guarding it, because I remember when he he had called her and she'd answered his call. And she was like, Courtney, no, I love you. And please come home. And she got upset with him. And she hung up. And when he came to the house, like he was just visibly distraught. And he was just broke down. And he was like, This is not good. She is not good. I am scared. Yeah. I am scared. And after that, she kind of felt like he pushed her away, because that really he wasn't there for her. And from her perspective, he wasn't there for her from his perspective, he had created his own boundaries, his own edges, because he was protecting himself. Because if she was going to take her life, you know, he probably subconsciously didn't know he's doing it. He didn't he wanted to separate his relationship with her a little bit because it was too close. And that would be too hurtful if he lost her, you know, and that relationship to taking a toll from Yeah, I can imagine, you know, they're everywhere. There's this protection mechanism that happens and in the I was proud of him, you know, he had his own boundaries to everyone has to have their own boundaries. Yeah. I keep trying to, like feeling into if I should share this or not, but when, if anyone's listening that has lost someone to suicide, and is struggling with the guilts in the shadows in the whatevs. This is where energetics and seeing someone who knows how to do death rights is very powerful. And I know I've had a few clients to where we have done death rates, what happens often time with suicide is then not always because I've experienced a few instances where one in particular where he was very conscious when he took his life and he crossed over very easily. Others where it is a response from trauma or they're not 100% like are they really wanting to do that and they end up taking their lives and they're what happens is oftentimes their soul body aspects of it get caught because there's a part of them that still on the trauma, and so going to someone like a shaman, shamans really are the only ones that I know that that are really good at doing death rites and and do it in a very clean integris way is very, very helpful and alleviates like with your when you're sharing that experience with Kelly and his brother with how he was getting your attention. Like it alleviates that those connections. Those Highs that are still that actually will drain the life force from someone, especially if they're carrying a lot of guilt or trauma or responsibility or whatever it is not saying that that was with Kelly just talking about with suicide That happens a lot. And but this is where I would, yeah, if you're listening and you're someone that's going through that reach out to a healer or someone that can, psychics like Kelly can help with crossing people over. But people get stuck all the time. Because just because we lose our physical body or energetics or the energetics and they stuck is the wrong word. But they can get kind of caught still on this earth plane and not sure where to go or they're not ready to leave, or they need a message to be said or heard or whatever it is before they can crossover and they're at peace. And they can continue their transition and progression in the afterlife. Yeah, and for anybody listening that, you know, it's it goes back to I don't know if I believe that. People might be thinking, but unless you've experienced it. I mean, I know that Oh, I know, my brother in law that crossed over. When he was in a car accident, he was not ready to go. Yeah, it was so sudden and what we believe to be true is and what we have learned through that communication is that his grandpa Thorpe came to get him in, he wouldn't go he wasn't ready to go. Yeah. So that connection that he had with my husband, you know, it did that energetic force that he's, he stayed connected. And so I think there is there is some, there is some truth to that. And people that lose someone to your holding on you. Oh, yeah, you know, you're holding on. So if you have lost someone to suicide, or a VA, someone to any kind of tragedy your child you're holding on to. And so that's one in my experience, my dad who passed away weighs almost 16 years ago, I have so appreciated my even 16 years ago, I knew I knew more I knew about energetics. And I was I felt his spirit I felt and I've had, I've been able to witness him progress in the afterlife and shift and change and, you know, the messages that have come through and now he is just the other day, I was doing a palm reading with my children and my oldest son, one of the things that he has a natural gift for but he needs to be taught is how to use his intuition in business. And my dad was phenomenal. He was brilliant. And his energy came in so strong. It was like who and I'm like, well, Papa's, you know, supposed to be one of your, your guides to teaching you that. And it's like, just because they people that we love have died does not mean they're gone. I mean are we continue going on and on. Granted, everybody has different beliefs about this. But to you what you're saying and what I'm saying there's too many experiences that I've had that I cannot refute that that doesn't exist, the life doesn't continue progressing, just because we don't have a physical body. And we have the ability to actually connect and see and experience and still have life with them just in a different way. We've just been so conditioned that we have this veil that has been placed over our eyes that we can't see. And it's like, it's just really a conditioning that has been placed on us for whatever reason, whatever your belief is around that we won't get into that one. But you know, they progress, they learn, they grow and it's just, you know, part of life is life death life cycle. Yeah. Well, and even just my daughter, she just lost her friend, you know, seeing butterflies. She says butterfly. It's just we had a huge monarch butterfly that flew over here a minute ago. Yeah. Oh, really. So I think, you know, they're communicating with you, if your awareness is like a feather or a nickel or a dime or something that resonates with you, you know, there is that communication. And I have had people say, I, you know, you you share that experience, and I've never had that experience with somebody who's passed on and I want to, there's the butterfly, and it the expectation that needs to look and feel it the same way as someone else's, you know, if you can let go of that expectation and maybe even just saying a prayer. You can feel them in my experience, too. It's just the intention. Yes. What you're saying they've just I want to I do want to feel what this is and then being open and not thinking you know, it's similar with emotions that are coming in right? Just allow it Pacific way. Yes. Allow it to come in. If it's your imagination, and you think you're like God, am I just making this up? No, trust the imagination actually links to a god brain, which is where a pituitary gland sits. So pituitary are Penny O'Neill, is pituitary anyway, it's the crystalline gland. Whenever you connect the imagination opens up and connects to the God brain. So trust your imagination, even if it feels silly, keep it to yourself. Who cares, but build it grow it? Absolutely. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. You're connecting all the time to those things. Yeah. Yeah. And actually the when you start Oh, Putting up two energetics in the spirit realm. And it's like your, your view of the world goes from like a deer in the headlights to all of a sudden. It's so expansive and stunning and just incredible. Bright. Yeah, it's bright and light and just, yeah, everything's happening for me instead of to me right. You know that divine there are no, there are no coincidences are no accidents, all of that, you know? Yeah, it's all it's all happening that Christ's like turning on the light Yeah, all of those are happening for us sorry. And if you're paying attention, it goes back to the reticular activating system where all that bit of information if you open up like you're saying, get out of that deer in the headlights, the small box and open it up. There are so much coming at you that you just if you are looking for it, you'll find it. You know some people and the opposite is true to some people say Oh, I'm so unlucky. Oh, yeah, you're crazy. Well, then, yeah, then you're right. If you think you're unlucky, then you're good, then you're right. You're gonna, you're gonna experience more of that. Yeah. Well, I have to do a podcast around words, because I know that's one of the things you and I both our words are so powerful. But it is it's living life consciously instead of unconscious. Being aware and creating the life that you want the 100% possible 100% possible. Well, thank you for sharing that story. Yeah, you too. I know, these these podcasts. I'm grateful for the opportunity to share stories from a vulnerable place. And again, not from a place of it defining us really, it's just it's part of where our experience has been and what we've learned. So I love, I love having the opportunity to do this with you. And me too, and learning from your stories. And if others can learn from our stories. Yeah. And people have already shared lots of similar stories, as we've posted these podcasts, the messages coming in and saying thank you for sharing that, because I resonate with that. And that is the whole point of why this podcast was born. What is personal is universal. And, you know, if I'm feeling this way, at some point, maybe somebody else can resonate. And that really, that really is what we want to do here. So thank you for leaning in and inviting me to do the podcast with you and for people. I really am excited about where this will take us. And no, I know me too. It is exciting just to see the unfolding. So we'll we'll start adding things to the Facebook group. I think we have some takeaways that we want to start adding on there to be able to join the conversation there and have have an open a conversation there. And we're working on getting better with that this time of year for both of us. We're just like, we have a graduation. Yeah. And I don't know Mother's Day. I just everything right now. Seems like me is the busiest month of the year. Are we I'm still in May. We are. It's dragging out. No, I'm glad we are here today. Hi, anniversary. Yes. Thank you. Something together six years married for four. So we did talk about having our special someone's on one of these days. So we didn't want to do that too. Yeah. Awesome. So thank you. Thank you sending everyone so much love have such a beautiful day. So it is thank you for joining the conversation today. We hope that something we said sparked your curiosity to further your growth. Only you know what is meant for you. So let's continue the conversation and follow us on our Facebook page at what is personal is universal. We'll see you there.