{"version":"1.0.0","segments":[{"startTime":0.039,"endTime":6.6,"body":"We needed to rant and get this out of our"},{"startTime":0.039,"endTime":6.6,"body":"system about all the gate keeping agile"},{"startTime":6.6,"endTime":8.749,"body":"coaches that are out there are I mean."},{"startTime":8.77,"endTime":10.799,"body":"I don't know if they're really"},{"startTime":8.77,"endTime":10.799,"body":"agile coaches I don't even know"},{"startTime":10.799,"endTime":13.36,"body":"what they would be called , people"},{"startTime":10.799,"endTime":13.36,"body":"trying to get attention on LinkedIn."},{"startTime":13.36,"endTime":16.22,"body":"Like self-professed Angeles, I guess."},{"startTime":16.25,"endTime":16.55,"body":"I don't know."},{"startTime":16.82,"endTime":23.27,"body":"I guess like I mean, people paddling"},{"startTime":16.82,"endTime":23.27,"body":"where's so selling services, so"},{"startTime":23.51,"endTime":27.86,"body":"selling themselves on the internet,"},{"startTime":23.51,"endTime":27.86,"body":"I don't know, selling their services"},{"startTime":27.92,"endTime":29.9,"body":"I guess selling the service."},{"startTime":29.93,"endTime":33.44,"body":"So I've noticed a trend on LinkedIn."},{"startTime":35.06,"endTime":40.76,"body":"People undercutting agile and"},{"startTime":35.06,"endTime":40.76,"body":"agile coaches, or really anything."},{"startTime":40.76,"endTime":44.029,"body":"It could be anything of their"},{"startTime":40.76,"endTime":44.029,"body":"undercutting this week, it's"},{"startTime":44.029,"endTime":47.689,"body":"agile, agile coaches next week, who"},{"startTime":44.029,"endTime":47.689,"body":"knows it could be product people."},{"startTime":47.689,"endTime":52.779,"body":"It could be whatever and they'll undercut"},{"startTime":47.689,"endTime":52.779,"body":"it in public with questionable reasoning"},{"startTime":53.02,"endTime":58.359,"body":"or, or with statistics that are not backed"},{"startTime":53.02,"endTime":58.359,"body":"up by anything in order to get attention."},{"startTime":59.32,"endTime":59.589,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":59.799,"endTime":61.0,"body":"Yeah, absolutely."},{"startTime":61.0,"endTime":63.88,"body":"So this is going to be a rent cost."},{"startTime":64.12,"endTime":66.49,"body":"Oh, rent cast cost."},{"startTime":66.54,"endTime":67.35,"body":"yeah, I agree with you."},{"startTime":67.35,"endTime":70.72,"body":"I've seen that it's not just this"},{"startTime":67.35,"endTime":70.72,"body":"week, I've seen that ongoing."},{"startTime":70.75,"endTime":71.05,"body":"Right?"},{"startTime":71.38,"endTime":74.98,"body":"Some people will come in and say,"},{"startTime":71.38,"endTime":74.98,"body":"yeah, that stuff doesn't work."},{"startTime":75.22,"endTime":76.45,"body":"Try my way."},{"startTime":77.47,"endTime":83.02,"body":"And unfortunately, it's the reason"},{"startTime":77.47,"endTime":83.02,"body":"why I say it's unfortunate is because."},{"startTime":83.92,"endTime":85.12,"body":"It's narrow in scope."},{"startTime":85.15,"endTime":89.02,"body":"Firstly, secondly, those people that"},{"startTime":85.15,"endTime":89.02,"body":"are coming up in the industry, just"},{"startTime":89.02,"endTime":94.78,"body":"learning about things, they get the wrong"},{"startTime":89.02,"endTime":94.78,"body":"message from this, they get the wrong"},{"startTime":94.78,"endTime":101.29,"body":"message because they're just blatantly"},{"startTime":94.78,"endTime":101.29,"body":"told 48% of this is wrong and whatever"},{"startTime":101.29,"endTime":106.21,"body":"else, and these are absolute numbers, it"},{"startTime":101.29,"endTime":106.21,"body":"makes it sound like it's based on some"},{"startTime":106.21,"endTime":108.82,"body":"sort of data science or some research."},{"startTime":108.85,"endTime":111.25,"body":"And, and frankly it's not, it's"},{"startTime":108.85,"endTime":111.25,"body":"just pulled out of the air."},{"startTime":111.64,"endTime":112.93,"body":"That's, that's very unfortunate,"},{"startTime":113.27,"endTime":117.53,"body":"Let's get fired up here and go into"},{"startTime":113.27,"endTime":117.53,"body":"a specific post I saw on LinkedIn"},{"startTime":117.56,"endTime":123.099,"body":"let's so again, we're not naming"},{"startTime":117.56,"endTime":123.099,"body":"and shaming, so this is all I've"},{"startTime":123.099,"endTime":124.519,"body":"blown the screen up, so it's random."},{"startTime":124.519,"endTime":128.509,"body":"For those of you listening, who can't see"},{"startTime":124.519,"endTime":128.509,"body":"on the screen, it says the post is agile."},{"startTime":128.509,"endTime":133.179,"body":"Coaching is in trouble and his first"},{"startTime":128.509,"endTime":133.179,"body":"reference point to give us information"},{"startTime":133.179,"endTime":136.509,"body":"about why agile coaching is the"},{"startTime":133.179,"endTime":136.509,"body":"supporting evidence is first point"},{"startTime":136.509,"endTime":141.699,"body":"of supporting evidence is 99% of"},{"startTime":136.509,"endTime":141.699,"body":"agile coaches, mostly talk to each"},{"startTime":141.699,"endTime":145.299,"body":"other and are therefore convinced"},{"startTime":141.699,"endTime":145.299,"body":"they know how to solve the world's."},{"startTime":147.114,"endTime":147.834,"body":"Wow."},{"startTime":148.134,"endTime":152.424,"body":"So the author obviously has done some"},{"startTime":148.134,"endTime":152.424,"body":"research by the look of this, and he's"},{"startTime":152.424,"endTime":158.154,"body":"discovered that 99% of agile coaches"},{"startTime":152.424,"endTime":158.154,"body":"talk mostly to each other, really."},{"startTime":158.454,"endTime":161.814,"body":"And he may be only knows two agile"},{"startTime":158.454,"endTime":161.814,"body":"coaches that talk to each other."},{"startTime":161.874,"endTime":165.114,"body":"Well, he's like, let's, let's run through"},{"startTime":161.874,"endTime":165.114,"body":"everything that's on the screen, just so"},{"startTime":165.114,"endTime":167.234,"body":"we can get we can snip back camera angles."},{"startTime":167.234,"endTime":168.614,"body":"So he says 90."},{"startTime":168.614,"endTime":172.364,"body":"So it should be saying 99% basically"},{"startTime":168.614,"endTime":172.364,"body":"means all of the agile coaches."},{"startTime":172.544,"endTime":174.614,"body":"They basically only talk"},{"startTime":172.544,"endTime":174.614,"body":"to other agile coaches."},{"startTime":174.914,"endTime":179.084,"body":"So then they're convinced that"},{"startTime":174.914,"endTime":179.084,"body":"they know how to solve the problem."},{"startTime":179.094,"endTime":186.284,"body":"So basically saying every agile coach"},{"startTime":179.094,"endTime":186.284,"body":"firmly believes they know how to solve"},{"startTime":186.674,"endTime":188.054,"body":"all the problems that they encounter."},{"startTime":188.454,"endTime":192.234,"body":"And then he goes on to say, 90% of"},{"startTime":188.454,"endTime":192.234,"body":"agile coaches got a certification."},{"startTime":192.264,"endTime":195.714,"body":"So they got the certifications"},{"startTime":192.264,"endTime":195.714,"body":"so that they can tell."},{"startTime":196.569,"endTime":201.429,"body":"What agile processes to follow"},{"startTime":196.569,"endTime":201.429,"body":"processes, presses, press the process."},{"startTime":201.429,"endTime":202.809,"body":"He says process, but that's not right."},{"startTime":203.349,"endTime":207.459,"body":"80% of agile coaches claim to"},{"startTime":203.349,"endTime":207.459,"body":"have C-level coaching experience."},{"startTime":208.599,"endTime":213.369,"body":"Hyphen, because that pays more, not"},{"startTime":208.599,"endTime":213.369,"body":"because they have the experience."},{"startTime":214.409,"endTime":216.699,"body":"I'm kind of with him on that one,"},{"startTime":214.409,"endTime":216.699,"body":"but I w we'll come back to it"},{"startTime":216.909,"endTime":218.369,"body":"and he says 75% of attitudes."},{"startTime":218.369,"endTime":222.159,"body":"So the overwhelming majority, that's why"},{"startTime":218.369,"endTime":222.159,"body":"I send you our percent of agile coaches"},{"startTime":222.159,"endTime":226.299,"body":"thinks mindset, psychological safety"},{"startTime":222.159,"endTime":226.299,"body":"and Lego workshops will do the trick."},{"startTime":226.479,"endTime":229.499,"body":"Isn't there a specific instruction"},{"startTime":226.479,"endTime":229.499,"body":"methodology that uses Legos."},{"startTime":229.509,"endTime":231.249,"body":"He's obviously he's attacking that."},{"startTime":231.669,"endTime":232.119,"body":"Okay."},{"startTime":232.209,"endTime":232.629,"body":"Okay."},{"startTime":233.149,"endTime":235.949,"body":"He's not the only one I've seen"},{"startTime":233.149,"endTime":235.949,"body":"other people do that to say you"},{"startTime":235.949,"endTime":237.539,"body":"can't be serious about business."},{"startTime":237.539,"endTime":238.619,"body":"You playing with Legos."},{"startTime":239.699,"endTime":241.379,"body":"What, what about the Lego corporation?"},{"startTime":244.799,"endTime":248.249,"body":"I mean, they made quite a bit of"},{"startTime":244.799,"endTime":248.249,"body":"money over the years they do are"},{"startTime":248.249,"endTime":249.629,"body":"they not owned by Hasbro yet?"},{"startTime":249.629,"endTime":251.459,"body":"Like Hasbro you're missing"},{"startTime":249.629,"endTime":251.459,"body":"out on a gold mine."},{"startTime":251.459,"endTime":256.939,"body":"If you don't a Lego yeah, just saying"},{"startTime":251.459,"endTime":256.939,"body":"hot, hot stock tips on the agile"},{"startTime":256.939,"endTime":259.459,"body":"podcasts with every penny you didn't pay."},{"startTime":259.459,"endTime":260.149,"body":"That's right."},{"startTime":260.599,"endTime":262.069,"body":"Let's see if there are"},{"startTime":260.599,"endTime":262.069,"body":"any other data points."},{"startTime":262.069,"endTime":264.769,"body":"Let's argue a bit on the one that"},{"startTime":262.069,"endTime":264.769,"body":"I actually want to argue about"},{"startTime":264.769,"endTime":266.689,"body":"and he says 80% of agile coaches."},{"startTime":266.689,"endTime":269.229,"body":"So one out of five agile coaches."},{"startTime":269.559,"endTime":271.269,"body":"Well, I don't know, not, oh, I'm sorry."},{"startTime":271.269,"endTime":276.159,"body":"Four out of 5, 5, 4 out of five"},{"startTime":271.269,"endTime":276.159,"body":"agile coaches claim to have C"},{"startTime":276.159,"endTime":281.109,"body":"level coaching experience only"},{"startTime":276.159,"endTime":281.109,"body":"because it pays more money."},{"startTime":281.559,"endTime":283.059,"body":"Not because they actually"},{"startTime":281.559,"endTime":283.059,"body":"have done it before."},{"startTime":284.339,"endTime":287.819,"body":"so he's saying 80% of"},{"startTime":284.339,"endTime":287.819,"body":"agricultures are liars basically"},{"startTime":288.039,"endTime":288.809,"body":"is what I'm saying in this."},{"startTime":288.809,"endTime":288.959,"body":"Right."},{"startTime":289.139,"endTime":290.849,"body":"That's what I read here as well."},{"startTime":291.089,"endTime":294.659,"body":"And I challenged that because let's say"},{"startTime":291.089,"endTime":294.659,"body":"they're saying that let's, let's just"},{"startTime":294.659,"endTime":296.669,"body":"give him for a second giving Benfield out."},{"startTime":296.969,"endTime":297.689,"body":"Let's say he's right."},{"startTime":297.779,"endTime":299.009,"body":"Four out of five are lying."},{"startTime":299.519,"endTime":303.479,"body":"How do you think that will go down when"},{"startTime":299.519,"endTime":303.479,"body":"they actually stand in front of a C-level"},{"startTime":303.479,"endTime":305.969,"body":"person and have to deal with stuff?"},{"startTime":305.999,"endTime":306.239,"body":"Right?"},{"startTime":306.239,"endTime":307.679,"body":"How is that going to go, Mami?"},{"startTime":307.679,"endTime":308.789,"body":"Maybe that's what he's saying."},{"startTime":308.789,"endTime":312.489,"body":"Maybe you saying they're"},{"startTime":308.789,"endTime":312.489,"body":"woefully unprepared to stand in"},{"startTime":312.489,"endTime":313.869,"body":"front of a C-level executive."},{"startTime":313.869,"endTime":317.169,"body":"I mean, I like, I, if I'm going, if"},{"startTime":313.869,"endTime":317.169,"body":"I'm going to support, I don't know"},{"startTime":317.169,"endTime":318.869,"body":"why I'm done I guess I enjoy pain."},{"startTime":318.869,"endTime":321.509,"body":"That's why I'm supporting"},{"startTime":318.869,"endTime":321.509,"body":"it is what he's saying here."},{"startTime":321.579,"endTime":323.579,"body":"I'll be in, I'll be in his corner here."},{"startTime":323.639,"endTime":323.999,"body":"Okay."},{"startTime":325.559,"endTime":326.969,"body":"The majority of agile coaches."},{"startTime":328.604,"endTime":333.254,"body":"Say that they have coached at the I"},{"startTime":328.604,"endTime":333.254,"body":"didn't, I'm like I have to, in order"},{"startTime":333.254,"endTime":336.464,"body":"to support what he's saying after,"},{"startTime":333.254,"endTime":336.464,"body":"rephrase what he's saying, which kinda"},{"startTime":336.494,"endTime":338.714,"body":"is like a ding on him to start with."},{"startTime":338.744,"endTime":344.594,"body":"But what he saying is the majority of"},{"startTime":338.744,"endTime":344.594,"body":"coaches out there are claiming that they"},{"startTime":344.594,"endTime":349.904,"body":"can coach up in the organization to the"},{"startTime":344.594,"endTime":349.904,"body":"leadership level, what the leadership"},{"startTime":349.904,"endTime":354.504,"body":"level means, whether it means actually the"},{"startTime":349.904,"endTime":354.504,"body":"C-level level or not  let's take that out"},{"startTime":354.504,"endTime":357.774,"body":"of the equation for a second, because like"},{"startTime":354.504,"endTime":357.774,"body":"you, you're being a little ridiculous."},{"startTime":357.774,"endTime":359.274,"body":"When you say you're"},{"startTime":357.774,"endTime":359.274,"body":"coaching the sea level."},{"startTime":359.274,"endTime":362.874,"body":"If your organization is like 10,000 plus"},{"startTime":359.274,"endTime":362.874,"body":"people, cause the C level is probably"},{"startTime":362.874,"endTime":366.724,"body":"very elusive to get ahold of, you probably"},{"startTime":362.874,"endTime":366.724,"body":"not really getting a hold of them."},{"startTime":366.724,"endTime":369.424,"body":"Maybe you're getting some, a hold"},{"startTime":366.724,"endTime":369.424,"body":"of somebody as a director level."},{"startTime":369.574,"endTime":372.544,"body":"If you can coach the people that are"},{"startTime":369.574,"endTime":372.544,"body":"your senior managers or whatever,"},{"startTime":372.544,"endTime":375.304,"body":"that's probably good enough for"},{"startTime":372.544,"endTime":375.304,"body":"your positioning your organization."},{"startTime":375.304,"endTime":380.704,"body":"So let's take his, let's take the"},{"startTime":375.304,"endTime":380.704,"body":"incendiary inflammatory definitions"},{"startTime":380.704,"endTime":382.174,"body":"that he's using offline for a second."},{"startTime":382.174,"endTime":383.944,"body":"And talk about the spirit"},{"startTime":382.174,"endTime":383.944,"body":"of what he's talking about."},{"startTime":384.044,"endTime":390.524,"body":"If you're saying that you have skill in"},{"startTime":384.044,"endTime":390.524,"body":"coaching up in the organization, skill"},{"startTime":390.524,"endTime":395.444,"body":"in doing it and success in doing it need"},{"startTime":390.524,"endTime":395.444,"body":"to be separated in this discussion point."},{"startTime":396.104,"endTime":400.424,"body":"And I realized that I'm really taking"},{"startTime":396.104,"endTime":400.424,"body":"the entire car apart to explain"},{"startTime":400.454,"endTime":403.774,"body":"like one, you know what I mean,"},{"startTime":400.454,"endTime":403.774,"body":"to really get behind see it works,"},{"startTime":404.044,"endTime":405.574,"body":"see it work like the engine works."},{"startTime":405.574,"endTime":405.994,"body":"Yes."},{"startTime":405.994,"endTime":408.124,"body":"The rest of the car didn't"},{"startTime":405.994,"endTime":408.124,"body":"work and the wheels don't run."},{"startTime":408.124,"endTime":411.944,"body":"And this doesn't really like, I really, I"},{"startTime":408.124,"endTime":411.944,"body":"have to take the whole thing apart I have"},{"startTime":411.944,"endTime":416.384,"body":"to dissect the whole, the whole bit of his"},{"startTime":411.944,"endTime":416.384,"body":"little straw man here to talk about it."},{"startTime":416.384,"endTime":418.044,"body":"But, I'm kind of behind."},{"startTime":418.044,"endTime":422.714,"body":"This is hiring an agile coach who"},{"startTime":418.044,"endTime":422.714,"body":"has proven experience influencing"},{"startTime":422.894,"endTime":427.664,"body":"the leadership and really changing"},{"startTime":422.894,"endTime":427.664,"body":"their opinion and connecting them"},{"startTime":427.844,"endTime":429.794,"body":"to a vision and building on that."},{"startTime":430.484,"endTime":435.074,"body":"That's a unique skillset and a lot"},{"startTime":430.484,"endTime":435.074,"body":"of people think they have that skill."},{"startTime":435.246,"endTime":437.916,"body":"But maybe not, they may not"},{"startTime":435.246,"endTime":437.916,"body":"know this, so, absolutely."},{"startTime":437.946,"endTime":438.456,"body":"That's true."},{"startTime":438.636,"endTime":441.996,"body":"So it says we've taken out"},{"startTime":438.636,"endTime":441.996,"body":"C-level from his assertion here."},{"startTime":442.326,"endTime":443.196,"body":"Just coaching up."},{"startTime":443.226,"endTime":443.916,"body":"Yeah, exactly."},{"startTime":443.916,"endTime":445.746,"body":"It's up is enough, I think, right."},{"startTime":445.746,"endTime":446.916,"body":"For a purpose, a discussion."},{"startTime":447.426,"endTime":451.626,"body":"So any agile coach worth his"},{"startTime":447.426,"endTime":451.626,"body":"or her salt should really"},{"startTime":451.626,"endTime":453.246,"body":"have some skills to coach up."},{"startTime":453.276,"endTime":455.316,"body":"If you're not a scrum guide,"},{"startTime":453.276,"endTime":455.316,"body":"even says, you should be"},{"startTime":455.316,"endTime":456.576,"body":"doing that as a scrum master."},{"startTime":456.576,"endTime":459.876,"body":"If you don't have that, then"},{"startTime":456.576,"endTime":459.876,"body":"you're off to a non-starter."},{"startTime":459.906,"endTime":461.226,"body":"You've gotta be able to do that."},{"startTime":461.496,"endTime":466.626,"body":"Now do all of these agile coaches have"},{"startTime":461.496,"endTime":466.626,"body":"the skills to do that effectively?"},{"startTime":467.016,"endTime":467.766,"body":"Probably not."},{"startTime":468.246,"endTime":468.576,"body":"Right."},{"startTime":468.606,"endTime":472.416,"body":"Because people are at this different"},{"startTime":468.606,"endTime":472.416,"body":"levels of their own maturity."},{"startTime":472.716,"endTime":473.706,"body":"So yes, of course."},{"startTime":473.706,"endTime":473.926,"body":"Right."},{"startTime":473.976,"endTime":478.086,"body":"So someone  who's been around for like 15"},{"startTime":473.976,"endTime":478.086,"body":"plus years and they've done it a while."},{"startTime":478.656,"endTime":478.986,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":478.986,"endTime":480.726,"body":"They've come up through"},{"startTime":478.986,"endTime":480.726,"body":"the school of hard knocks."},{"startTime":480.726,"endTime":482.316,"body":"They understand what's going on here."},{"startTime":482.316,"endTime":486.626,"body":"They know when to push when not to push,"},{"startTime":482.316,"endTime":486.626,"body":"whereas a young gun is that four or"},{"startTime":486.626,"endTime":491.456,"body":"five years of a scrum master experience"},{"startTime":486.626,"endTime":491.456,"body":"is now just delving into agile coach."},{"startTime":492.251,"endTime":496.871,"body":"They may not have what it takes"},{"startTime":492.251,"endTime":496.871,"body":"to coach job, especially at the C"},{"startTime":496.871,"endTime":498.731,"body":"level, but they can still coach up."},{"startTime":498.881,"endTime":499.151,"body":"Right."},{"startTime":499.161,"endTime":502.541,"body":"That middle management level"},{"startTime":499.161,"endTime":502.541,"body":"to your point directors."},{"startTime":502.621,"endTime":503.191,"body":"You can do that."},{"startTime":503.221,"endTime":503.431,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":503.821,"endTime":504.261,"body":"So, yeah."},{"startTime":504.331,"endTime":509.701,"body":"So I think the underlying theme is valid"},{"startTime":504.331,"endTime":509.701,"body":"that not everybody would have that kind"},{"startTime":509.701,"endTime":512.011,"body":"of experience to be able to do that."},{"startTime":512.111,"endTime":515.791,"body":"And forget about the percentages I"},{"startTime":512.111,"endTime":515.791,"body":"think here cause that's that's big."},{"startTime":515.821,"endTime":516.241,"body":"Yeah, yeah."},{"startTime":516.391,"endTime":516.781,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":517.331,"endTime":524.771,"body":"While I was perusing the, the screen"},{"startTime":517.331,"endTime":524.771,"body":"here and I was reading his 90% of agile"},{"startTime":524.771,"endTime":528.701,"body":"coaches got a certification, so they"},{"startTime":524.771,"endTime":528.701,"body":"can tell companies what agile processes"},{"startTime":528.701,"endTime":532.511,"body":"to follow I was thinking about that"},{"startTime":528.701,"endTime":532.511,"body":"one and I was thinking about myself"},{"startTime":532.631,"endTime":539.391,"body":"and I'm like, I remember I went to"},{"startTime":532.631,"endTime":539.391,"body":"my CSM course because the company had"},{"startTime":539.391,"endTime":542.261,"body":"gone agile and the company had gone."},{"startTime":544.016,"endTime":547.626,"body":"For, for many years, a company"},{"startTime":544.016,"endTime":547.626,"body":"was using, they adopt the scrum."},{"startTime":547.626,"endTime":548.436,"body":"They like, we're agile."},{"startTime":548.436,"endTime":550.026,"body":"Now we're adopting scrum."},{"startTime":550.026,"endTime":551.316,"body":"We're not going to do documentation."},{"startTime":551.316,"endTime":552.666,"body":"They fired the documentation guy."},{"startTime":553.566,"endTime":557.776,"body":"And I was like, this can't be"},{"startTime":553.566,"endTime":557.776,"body":"the framework that takes the"},{"startTime":557.826,"endTime":560.256,"body":"methodology, whatever the mindset,"},{"startTime":557.826,"endTime":560.256,"body":"whatever you want to call it."},{"startTime":560.306,"endTime":565.196,"body":"But I was like, this can't be"},{"startTime":560.306,"endTime":565.196,"body":"the methodology is taking the"},{"startTime":565.196,"endTime":569.846,"body":"world by storm and be so bad."},{"startTime":570.446,"endTime":573.536,"body":"I was like, it can't be, we don't"},{"startTime":570.446,"endTime":573.536,"body":"do documentation and we're going to"},{"startTime":573.716,"endTime":578.166,"body":"do whatever the developers say, and"},{"startTime":573.716,"endTime":578.166,"body":"we're not gonna have testers anymore."},{"startTime":578.466,"endTime":581.666,"body":"And like, I was like, this"},{"startTime":578.466,"endTime":581.666,"body":"cannot be the way that it is."},{"startTime":581.666,"endTime":584.816,"body":"I want them to figure out like,"},{"startTime":581.666,"endTime":584.816,"body":"oh, what, what, what are other"},{"startTime":584.816,"endTime":586.796,"body":"teams doing that are using scrum?"},{"startTime":587.066,"endTime":589.016,"body":"And kind of what is the book saying?"},{"startTime":589.046,"endTime":592.016,"body":"And I want to talk to people and be"},{"startTime":589.046,"endTime":592.016,"body":"around people and network with people"},{"startTime":592.066,"endTime":595.126,"body":"that are doing this on their teams and"},{"startTime":592.066,"endTime":595.126,"body":"talk to them about what they're doing."},{"startTime":595.486,"endTime":595.786,"body":"Sorry."},{"startTime":595.786,"endTime":599.416,"body":"I mean, I guess this, I guess he"},{"startTime":595.786,"endTime":599.416,"body":"would lump me in the 99% of veggie"},{"startTime":599.416,"endTime":602.716,"body":"coach to talk to other people, but"},{"startTime":599.416,"endTime":602.716,"body":"like, well, like he's saying that I"},{"startTime":602.716,"endTime":604.096,"body":"only talked to other agile coaches."},{"startTime":604.096,"endTime":604.876,"body":"That's not true."},{"startTime":604.906,"endTime":606.346,"body":"I got to talk to product people."},{"startTime":606.346,"endTime":609.106,"body":"I talked to developers, I"},{"startTime":606.346,"endTime":609.106,"body":"talked to business folks."},{"startTime":609.106,"endTime":612.756,"body":"I talked to executives and founders"},{"startTime":609.106,"endTime":612.756,"body":"of companies like to, to talk"},{"startTime":612.756,"endTime":615.006,"body":"about their perspective in what"},{"startTime":612.756,"endTime":615.006,"body":"they want and what they need."},{"startTime":615.096,"endTime":619.506,"body":"And I compare that against again, my"},{"startTime":615.096,"endTime":619.506,"body":"experiences and what the book says"},{"startTime":619.506,"endTime":624.796,"body":"and what I've seen on teams and stuff"},{"startTime":619.506,"endTime":624.796,"body":"like that but I bring that all up"},{"startTime":624.796,"endTime":627.976,"body":"to say, the reason I got my cert is"},{"startTime":624.796,"endTime":627.976,"body":"because I was like, wait a minute."},{"startTime":628.006,"endTime":629.716,"body":"I don't think I'm crazy."},{"startTime":630.196,"endTime":634.746,"body":"I think your, I think all y'all"},{"startTime":630.196,"endTime":634.746,"body":"that are all the developers and the"},{"startTime":634.746,"endTime":638.116,"body":"project managers and those people"},{"startTime":634.746,"endTime":638.116,"body":"that are like asking for things that"},{"startTime":638.116,"endTime":641.746,"body":"they've come up with deadlines is I"},{"startTime":638.116,"endTime":641.746,"body":"was like, I think y'all are crazy."},{"startTime":641.806,"endTime":645.856,"body":"Well, I still believe that because people"},{"startTime":641.806,"endTime":645.856,"body":"are just picking dates out of the air."},{"startTime":645.946,"endTime":646.236,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":647.431,"endTime":651.681,"body":"Basis in anything really, it's not"},{"startTime":647.431,"endTime":651.681,"body":"evidence-based or anything like that."},{"startTime":651.691,"endTime":651.871,"body":"No."},{"startTime":652.201,"endTime":655.051,"body":"Pick a date and go tell me"},{"startTime":652.201,"endTime":655.051,"body":"why you can't make this date."},{"startTime":655.771,"endTime":659.491,"body":"And so for that matter, I just say, pick"},{"startTime":655.771,"endTime":659.491,"body":"any date it's as good as any other, right."},{"startTime":659.521,"endTime":663.271,"body":"You're just making believe at the"},{"startTime":659.521,"endTime":663.271,"body":"moment, but  the accusation here."},{"startTime":663.271,"endTime":663.721,"body":"That's right."},{"startTime":663.721,"endTime":668.941,"body":"I said that the accusation here is"},{"startTime":663.721,"endTime":668.941,"body":"you only got your, a CSM, so you"},{"startTime":668.941,"endTime":672.131,"body":"can go back to your company and"},{"startTime":668.941,"endTime":672.131,"body":"tell them that you're doing this"},{"startTime":672.131,"endTime":674.861,"body":"wrong, or you're doing this wrong or"},{"startTime":672.131,"endTime":674.861,"body":"whatever that that's the accusation."},{"startTime":675.791,"endTime":680.561,"body":"So I think some of that is probably"},{"startTime":675.791,"endTime":680.561,"body":"valid in that you've got some people"},{"startTime":680.561,"endTime":684.741,"body":"that simply just sit through the two day"},{"startTime":680.561,"endTime":684.741,"body":"class, get their cert and say this is it."},{"startTime":684.771,"endTime":685.851,"body":"This is what we need to do."},{"startTime":685.911,"endTime":689.091,"body":"I'm going to go in and"},{"startTime":685.911,"endTime":689.091,"body":"I'm going to install."},{"startTime":689.751,"endTime":690.801,"body":"You can use that word, right?"},{"startTime":690.981,"endTime":693.501,"body":"I'll install this framework,"},{"startTime":690.981,"endTime":693.501,"body":"XYZ, whatever it is."},{"startTime":693.501,"endTime":693.771,"body":"Right."},{"startTime":694.061,"endTime":696.661,"body":"And that's what we're going to"},{"startTime":694.061,"endTime":696.661,"body":"use particularly when it comes"},{"startTime":696.661,"endTime":699.271,"body":"to scaling, because these people,"},{"startTime":696.661,"endTime":699.271,"body":"I find that these folks that do."},{"startTime":700.216,"endTime":705.566,"body":"They've not really run successful"},{"startTime":700.216,"endTime":705.566,"body":"projects were worked with teams or"},{"startTime":705.566,"endTime":707.996,"body":"had any success at a core level."},{"startTime":708.476,"endTime":708.776,"body":"Great."},{"startTime":708.776,"endTime":710.246,"body":"Let alone at a scaled level."},{"startTime":710.486,"endTime":712.766,"body":"All I know is I got this certification."},{"startTime":712.766,"endTime":714.566,"body":"It says, I'm a scaled agile it's."},{"startTime":714.586,"endTime":716.906,"body":"Now I can scale agile."},{"startTime":717.146,"endTime":720.086,"body":"So I'm going to do it this way, because"},{"startTime":717.146,"endTime":720.086,"body":"that's what my certification was in."},{"startTime":720.766,"endTime":725.216,"body":"As opposed to some people that basically"},{"startTime":720.766,"endTime":725.216,"body":"say, forget about all those certs,"},{"startTime":725.216,"endTime":729.116,"body":"whether you have them or not, let's just"},{"startTime":725.216,"endTime":729.116,"body":"assess the culture of the organization."},{"startTime":729.116,"endTime":730.106,"body":"How are teams working?"},{"startTime":730.106,"endTime":731.066,"body":"Are we doing the basics?"},{"startTime":731.066,"endTime":731.426,"body":"Right?"},{"startTime":731.456,"endTime":734.456,"body":"Focus on that first, before we"},{"startTime":731.456,"endTime":734.456,"body":"start to scale up because that's"},{"startTime":734.456,"endTime":735.506,"body":"a magnifying glass, right?"},{"startTime":735.896,"endTime":739.206,"body":"So he probably is right"},{"startTime":735.896,"endTime":739.206,"body":"in to a certain degree."},{"startTime":739.206,"endTime":740.346,"body":"His percentage is a way."},{"startTime":741.271,"endTime":743.731,"body":"But I think he might've done"},{"startTime":741.271,"endTime":743.731,"body":"that to me in San Diego anyway."},{"startTime":743.791,"endTime":744.211,"body":"Sure."},{"startTime":745.111,"endTime":749.581,"body":"So yeah, some people just go in and"},{"startTime":745.111,"endTime":749.581,"body":"preach and say I am a cert carrying"},{"startTime":749.581,"endTime":752.191,"body":"legit, agilest dial shall do this."},{"startTime":752.611,"endTime":754.231,"body":"And that's just not true."},{"startTime":754.681,"endTime":754.981,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":754.981,"endTime":756.751,"body":"My I think this is about the time."},{"startTime":756.751,"endTime":760.761,"body":"I probably should have opened the podcast"},{"startTime":756.751,"endTime":760.761,"body":"with this my hypothesis with this topic"},{"startTime":761.511,"endTime":768.361,"body":"is that this gatekeeping of agile coaching"},{"startTime":761.511,"endTime":768.361,"body":"hurts the whole community and undermines"},{"startTime":768.841,"endTime":772.711,"body":"agile coaches more than it helps."},{"startTime":772.741,"endTime":775.471,"body":"I don't even know how you would help"},{"startTime":772.741,"endTime":775.471,"body":"with, , by throwing it out this way."},{"startTime":775.961,"endTime":780.281,"body":"Not trying to blast specific people,"},{"startTime":775.961,"endTime":780.281,"body":"so we've cut out the name of this"},{"startTime":780.281,"endTime":786.571,"body":"specific post, but I've seen a bunch of"},{"startTime":780.281,"endTime":786.571,"body":"posts like this and it comes up all the"},{"startTime":786.571,"endTime":788.071,"body":"time when I talk to people in person."},{"startTime":788.401,"endTime":789.841,"body":"And they see things like this."},{"startTime":789.841,"endTime":791.851,"body":"I know stuff like this is swirling around."},{"startTime":791.851,"endTime":795.901,"body":"And also  somebody mentioned to me"},{"startTime":791.851,"endTime":795.901,"body":"in an organization that I was in"},{"startTime":795.901,"endTime":799.771,"body":"one time where I think I was on a"},{"startTime":795.901,"endTime":799.771,"body":"contract and I was shuffling out of"},{"startTime":799.771,"endTime":803.311,"body":"the organization and I was like, have"},{"startTime":799.771,"endTime":803.311,"body":"you guys go to hire an agile coach?"},{"startTime":803.341,"endTime":806.371,"body":"Or if you guys want to bring in another"},{"startTime":803.341,"endTime":806.371,"body":"contractor, agile, I think I was."},{"startTime":807.286,"endTime":809.116,"body":"That's that it's it's all"},{"startTime":807.286,"endTime":809.116,"body":"flooding back to me now."},{"startTime":809.536,"endTime":812.506,"body":"I was a product person in that"},{"startTime":809.536,"endTime":812.506,"body":"organization and I was there"},{"startTime":812.506,"endTime":814.396,"body":"on contract doing product work."},{"startTime":815.506,"endTime":819.166,"body":"And I remember telling them if you"},{"startTime":815.506,"endTime":819.166,"body":"want to bring in a permanent employee"},{"startTime":819.466,"endTime":822.646,"body":"to be your scrum master or to do"},{"startTime":819.466,"endTime":822.646,"body":"agile coaching when, cause I'm kind"},{"startTime":822.646,"endTime":826.366,"body":"of like one in the same to sure I was"},{"startTime":822.646,"endTime":826.366,"body":"like, I would ask that you run it by"},{"startTime":826.366,"endTime":828.286,"body":"me cause I've actually done that job."},{"startTime":828.316,"endTime":833.406,"body":"And I I'd like to have , some"},{"startTime":828.316,"endTime":833.406,"body":"opportunity to ask questions because"},{"startTime":833.406,"endTime":836.496,"body":"there's a lot of people out there"},{"startTime":833.406,"endTime":836.496,"body":"that really don't understand the"},{"startTime":836.496,"endTime":840.066,"body":"job and, and don't understand"},{"startTime":836.496,"endTime":840.066,"body":"the job before your perspective."},{"startTime":840.156,"endTime":842.826,"body":"And, and I remember I still,"},{"startTime":840.156,"endTime":842.826,"body":"to this day at six with me,"},{"startTime":842.826,"endTime":844.056,"body":"they're like, that's funny."},{"startTime":844.056,"endTime":846.516,"body":"Cause a lot of people tell me that"},{"startTime":844.056,"endTime":846.516,"body":"a lot of people tell me there's a"},{"startTime":846.516,"endTime":850.596,"body":"lot of pretenders or people that are"},{"startTime":846.516,"endTime":850.596,"body":"advertising that they have the skill"},{"startTime":850.596,"endTime":851.646,"body":"that really don't have the skill."},{"startTime":851.646,"endTime":852.696,"body":"And I, and I thought about that."},{"startTime":852.696,"endTime":856.356,"body":"I was like, huh, I wonder why someone"},{"startTime":852.696,"endTime":856.356,"body":"who's not even in the industry"},{"startTime":856.956,"endTime":863.226,"body":"Would have already been told and"},{"startTime":856.956,"endTime":863.226,"body":"warned so strongly about this."},{"startTime":864.456,"endTime":868.016,"body":"I'm trying to see which side"},{"startTime":864.456,"endTime":868.016,"body":"to take first on this, right?"},{"startTime":868.046,"endTime":871.816,"body":"Oh, I'm like, I don't know, but if, if"},{"startTime":868.046,"endTime":871.816,"body":"it helps you pick a side,  my thinking"},{"startTime":871.816,"endTime":874.396,"body":"goes out to all the organizations"},{"startTime":871.816,"endTime":874.396,"body":"that are out there that are like"},{"startTime":874.396,"endTime":877.426,"body":"development centric organizations"},{"startTime":874.396,"endTime":877.426,"body":"that don't have scrum masters."},{"startTime":877.756,"endTime":881.896,"body":"And like, I would just think that like,"},{"startTime":877.756,"endTime":881.896,"body":"they hear this kind of trepidation"},{"startTime":882.956,"endTime":887.136,"body":"this kind of a double guessing, or all"},{"startTime":882.956,"endTime":887.136,"body":"the negativity from this gatekeeping."},{"startTime":887.286,"endTime":890.646,"body":"And they are like, oh, well I don't, I"},{"startTime":887.286,"endTime":890.646,"body":"don't, I don't even want a scrum master."},{"startTime":890.806,"endTime":894.846,"body":"And to them, it's just see these"},{"startTime":890.806,"endTime":894.846,"body":"people who are sales coaches."},{"startTime":894.906,"endTime":895.086,"body":"Right."},{"startTime":895.146,"endTime":897.816,"body":"Both of these things are"},{"startTime":895.146,"endTime":897.816,"body":"saying that agile, essentially"},{"startTime":898.146,"endTime":899.466,"body":"in a nutshell doesn't work."},{"startTime":899.496,"endTime":899.766,"body":"Right."},{"startTime":899.796,"endTime":900.096,"body":"Right."},{"startTime":900.426,"endTime":901.386,"body":"I just don't work."},{"startTime":901.386,"endTime":906.546,"body":"So it just gives them fuel to just resist"},{"startTime":901.386,"endTime":906.546,"body":"even more and fall back to what they know."},{"startTime":907.446,"endTime":910.626,"body":"Which is the old way of working,"},{"startTime":907.446,"endTime":910.626,"body":"which doesn't actually work all that."},{"startTime":910.626,"endTime":911.706,"body":"Well, I never worked."},{"startTime":912.096,"endTime":914.616,"body":"So yeah, unfortunately it fuels the fire."},{"startTime":914.616,"endTime":919.846,"body":"Sadly sometimes these people that are"},{"startTime":914.616,"endTime":919.846,"body":"posting lists have their own methods and"},{"startTime":920.126,"endTime":925.126,"body":"where's the oh boy sometimes but like"},{"startTime":920.126,"endTime":925.126,"body":"if I'm going to throw out an incendiary"},{"startTime":925.126,"endTime":929.086,"body":"percentage of like, I should put that"},{"startTime":925.126,"endTime":929.086,"body":"in the show notes, I'd be like 99%"},{"startTime":929.086,"endTime":932.086,"body":"of people that are agile gatekeeping"},{"startTime":929.086,"endTime":932.086,"body":"are trying to sell you their book."},{"startTime":932.326,"endTime":937.786,"body":"98% of agile gatekeeping people are"},{"startTime":932.326,"endTime":937.786,"body":"trying to get you to buy their services."},{"startTime":938.116,"endTime":940.966,"body":"97% preferred diet Coke."},{"startTime":940.966,"endTime":943.606,"body":"I don't, I don't, I have"},{"startTime":940.966,"endTime":943.606,"body":"no idea we're holding it."},{"startTime":943.786,"endTime":944.506,"body":"Raleigh say that."},{"startTime":944.506,"endTime":945.466,"body":"Cause we're all drinking diet Coke."},{"startTime":945.496,"endTime":945.676,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":946.076,"endTime":948.006,"body":"What other incendiary nonsense here?"},{"startTime":948.056,"endTime":952.316,"body":"Now, 75% of agile coaches just"},{"startTime":948.056,"endTime":952.316,"body":"think that mindset and psychological"},{"startTime":952.316,"endTime":953.486,"body":"safety will do the trick."},{"startTime":953.636,"endTime":955.266,"body":"All right let's pause here for one second"},{"startTime":956.556,"endTime":960.606,"body":"I like to think that in every perspective,"},{"startTime":956.556,"endTime":960.606,"body":"there is something that can help you."},{"startTime":961.236,"endTime":966.386,"body":"And, and in this one, we find that"},{"startTime":961.236,"endTime":966.386,"body":"like in here in the ranting I'm like,"},{"startTime":966.446,"endTime":973.386,"body":"actually, if you're an agile coach and"},{"startTime":966.446,"endTime":973.386,"body":"you're properly placed in the organization"},{"startTime":974.826,"endTime":979.126,"body":"and you go to the leadership and you're"},{"startTime":974.826,"endTime":979.126,"body":"like, this person on this team or"},{"startTime":979.126,"endTime":984.556,"body":"this person in the hierarchy they're"},{"startTime":979.126,"endTime":984.556,"body":"disturbing your psychological safety."},{"startTime":985.246,"endTime":990.086,"body":"They are constantly yelling at people and"},{"startTime":985.246,"endTime":990.086,"body":"stomping your feet and demanding things."},{"startTime":990.086,"endTime":993.736,"body":"And they don't understand"},{"startTime":990.086,"endTime":993.736,"body":"how teams are constructed."},{"startTime":993.866,"endTime":997.166,"body":"They're not taking feedback"},{"startTime":993.866,"endTime":997.166,"body":"and they don't understand that."},{"startTime":997.216,"endTime":1001.146,"body":"Being a bully in meetings is not"},{"startTime":997.216,"endTime":1001.146,"body":"going to, that's not the way to"},{"startTime":1001.146,"endTime":1002.626,"body":"innovate and create new products."},{"startTime":1002.626,"endTime":1005.846,"body":"And we're like, okay, actually I think"},{"startTime":1002.626,"endTime":1005.846,"body":"that having a deep understanding of"},{"startTime":1005.846,"endTime":1010.336,"body":"mindset and psychological safety, if"},{"startTime":1005.846,"endTime":1010.336,"body":"your leadership is listening could go"},{"startTime":1010.336,"endTime":1013.716,"body":"a very long way in the organization"},{"startTime":1010.336,"endTime":1013.716,"body":"to help your leadership understand."},{"startTime":1014.506,"endTime":1020.436,"body":"I have to deal with these problem people"},{"startTime":1014.506,"endTime":1020.436,"body":"yes, I have a CTO director development,"},{"startTime":1020.436,"endTime":1023.696,"body":"whatever that they got my company to"},{"startTime":1020.436,"endTime":1023.696,"body":"this point and they are very critical."},{"startTime":1023.696,"endTime":1027.466,"body":"And I decided as a leader, I was going"},{"startTime":1023.696,"endTime":1027.466,"body":"to tolerate their behaviors or whatever."},{"startTime":1027.466,"endTime":1030.526,"body":"And till this point until I got"},{"startTime":1027.466,"endTime":1030.526,"body":"this agile coaching and they started"},{"startTime":1030.526,"endTime":1035.296,"body":"highlighting you can't deal with this"},{"startTime":1030.526,"endTime":1035.296,"body":"business risk anymore, you have to act."},{"startTime":1035.596,"endTime":1040.246,"body":"And now they've presented something to"},{"startTime":1035.596,"endTime":1040.246,"body":"me where I, the leader have to choose."},{"startTime":1040.636,"endTime":1046.076,"body":"Do I want to let this person keep being"},{"startTime":1040.636,"endTime":1046.076,"body":"a bull in a China shop on my teams?"},{"startTime":1046.226,"endTime":1052.556,"body":"Or do I want to act now you in"},{"startTime":1046.226,"endTime":1052.556,"body":"support of his article, you could"},{"startTime":1052.556,"endTime":1054.126,"body":"say, as a leader, you escalated it."},{"startTime":1054.126,"endTime":1055.596,"body":"And this happens in"},{"startTime":1054.126,"endTime":1055.596,"body":"companies all the time."},{"startTime":1056.391,"endTime":1057.171,"body":"There's a problem."},{"startTime":1057.531,"endTime":1060.801,"body":"You point out the problem you're"},{"startTime":1057.531,"endTime":1060.801,"body":"blamed for pointing out the problem."},{"startTime":1061.401,"endTime":1061.731,"body":"Okay."},{"startTime":1061.791,"endTime":1063.141,"body":"Also, there's a problem."},{"startTime":1063.321,"endTime":1064.341,"body":"You point out the problem."},{"startTime":1064.461,"endTime":1068.481,"body":"Nothing happens because that, that person"},{"startTime":1064.461,"endTime":1068.481,"body":"is the only one that knows this code base."},{"startTime":1068.601,"endTime":1070.581,"body":"That person is the only one"},{"startTime":1068.601,"endTime":1070.581,"body":"that knows the systems inside."},{"startTime":1070.581,"endTime":1073.971,"body":"Now that person is the number one person"},{"startTime":1070.581,"endTime":1073.971,"body":"that everybody calls when the system"},{"startTime":1073.971,"endTime":1077.521,"body":"goes down or when the middle of the"},{"startTime":1073.971,"endTime":1077.521,"body":"night, whatever something happens that"},{"startTime":1077.521,"endTime":1079.051,"body":"person is a hero developer or whatever."},{"startTime":1079.051,"endTime":1083.521,"body":"Like, and then the company lets a lot"},{"startTime":1079.051,"endTime":1083.521,"body":"of stuff, slide a lot of stuff, slide."},{"startTime":1083.701,"endTime":1089.011,"body":"And we're not even, we're not even"},{"startTime":1083.701,"endTime":1089.011,"body":"tipping over to like truly a moral,"},{"startTime":1089.011,"endTime":1090.991,"body":"bad stuff that companies let slide."},{"startTime":1092.431,"endTime":1094.251,"body":"You companies, you know who you are"},{"startTime":1094.471,"endTime":1098.221,"body":"we're not even going into the"},{"startTime":1094.471,"endTime":1098.221,"body":"really bad situations that"},{"startTime":1098.221,"endTime":1102.091,"body":"companies let persist, even though"},{"startTime":1098.221,"endTime":1102.091,"body":"they know a problem is going on."},{"startTime":1103.666,"endTime":1108.216,"body":"But I would have to argue with his 700%"},{"startTime":1103.666,"endTime":1108.216,"body":"of agriculture's thing, mindset and"},{"startTime":1108.216,"endTime":1112.766,"body":"psychological safety will do the trick"},{"startTime":1108.216,"endTime":1112.766,"body":"because actually they we'll do the trick"},{"startTime":1113.396,"endTime":1115.346,"body":"at a certain level of the organization."},{"startTime":1115.346,"endTime":1119.816,"body":"When the rest of the organization"},{"startTime":1115.346,"endTime":1119.816,"body":"doesn't care about those things."},{"startTime":1120.476,"endTime":1123.326,"body":"Then I am back in line with him."},{"startTime":1123.386,"endTime":1127.856,"body":"If he's saying if your executive"},{"startTime":1123.386,"endTime":1127.856,"body":"leadership and your directors, whatever"},{"startTime":1127.856,"endTime":1131.306,"body":"your leadership, your organization"},{"startTime":1127.856,"endTime":1131.306,"body":"doesn't care, how people are treated."},{"startTime":1133.106,"endTime":1134.096,"body":"Yeah, you're right."},{"startTime":1135.746,"endTime":1136.166,"body":"You're right."},{"startTime":1136.196,"endTime":1139.826,"body":"Agile coaches can't really make a"},{"startTime":1136.196,"endTime":1139.826,"body":"lick of difference with psychological."},{"startTime":1139.826,"endTime":1144.386,"body":"Literally you're a doctor in"},{"startTime":1139.826,"endTime":1144.386,"body":"organizational psychology, right."},{"startTime":1144.476,"endTime":1146.306,"body":"And your organization"},{"startTime":1144.476,"endTime":1146.306,"body":"doesn't care about that."},{"startTime":1146.336,"endTime":1146.506,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":1146.506,"endTime":1150.016,"body":"You're going to make very little"},{"startTime":1146.506,"endTime":1150.016,"body":"difference, but that's the biggest, like"},{"startTime":1150.526,"endTime":1151.876,"body":"an argument I can think of right now."},{"startTime":1151.876,"endTime":1155.466,"body":"Like you can apply that, that ridiculous"},{"startTime":1151.876,"endTime":1155.466,"body":"logic to just about anything you're"},{"startTime":1155.586,"endTime":1159.956,"body":"a doctor in data science but every"},{"startTime":1155.586,"endTime":1159.956,"body":"executive at your company chooses what"},{"startTime":1159.956,"endTime":1163.106,"body":"to build based on their gut reaction"},{"startTime":1159.956,"endTime":1163.106,"body":"to how they feel about something of"},{"startTime":1163.106,"endTime":1167.876,"body":"course, you're going to feel like"},{"startTime":1163.106,"endTime":1167.876,"body":"nobody cares about my in-depth analytics"},{"startTime":1167.876,"endTime":1172.256,"body":"and my like, of course, of course"},{"startTime":1167.876,"endTime":1172.256,"body":"the company doesn't care about it."},{"startTime":1173.486,"endTime":1173.726,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":1173.726,"endTime":1178.646,"body":"So I think what a couple of things here,"},{"startTime":1173.726,"endTime":1178.646,"body":"I want to say one is this, this idea about"},{"startTime":1178.646,"endTime":1180.956,"body":"the mindset, that word is overused today."},{"startTime":1181.456,"endTime":1183.086,"body":"Everybody's just says that now."},{"startTime":1183.386,"endTime":1186.356,"body":"And I think now it's got to the"},{"startTime":1183.386,"endTime":1186.356,"body":"point where it means nothing."},{"startTime":1186.476,"endTime":1187.196,"body":"Yeah, honestly."},{"startTime":1187.286,"endTime":1187.586,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":1187.646,"endTime":1187.916,"body":"Right."},{"startTime":1187.946,"endTime":1188.516,"body":"Big data."},{"startTime":1188.576,"endTime":1188.726,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":1188.736,"endTime":1189.086,"body":"Same thing."},{"startTime":1189.086,"endTime":1189.776,"body":"Exactly."},{"startTime":1189.776,"endTime":1189.986,"body":"Yes."},{"startTime":1190.436,"endTime":1190.916,"body":"Big data."},{"startTime":1190.916,"endTime":1191.126,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":1191.366,"endTime":1196.196,"body":"So we've got, I think we've got"},{"startTime":1191.366,"endTime":1196.196,"body":"to be careful using these terms"},{"startTime":1196.196,"endTime":1197.666,"body":"that can easily be turned around."},{"startTime":1198.431,"endTime":1200.661,"body":"It's incremental gains"},{"startTime":1198.431,"endTime":1200.661,"body":"cause you're not gonna win."},{"startTime":1200.751,"endTime":1205.161,"body":"It basically says the first pushing a rock"},{"startTime":1200.751,"endTime":1205.161,"body":"up a hill I lost my train of thought here."},{"startTime":1205.191,"endTime":1205.491,"body":"Hang on."},{"startTime":1205.521,"endTime":1206.301,"body":"It'll come back to me."},{"startTime":1206.391,"endTime":1207.291,"body":"You're in the right place."},{"startTime":1207.431,"endTime":1208.161,"body":"In the right place."},{"startTime":1208.161,"endTime":1208.401,"body":"Yeah"},{"startTime":1208.731,"endTime":1209.151,"body":"yeah."},{"startTime":1209.151,"endTime":1210.381,"body":"Psychological safety."},{"startTime":1210.591,"endTime":1214.011,"body":"That's another phrase"},{"startTime":1210.591,"endTime":1214.011,"body":"that is overused today."},{"startTime":1214.041,"endTime":1214.221,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":1214.341,"endTime":1214.731,"body":"Right."},{"startTime":1215.751,"endTime":1217.041,"body":"Those that really get it."},{"startTime":1217.161,"endTime":1223.471,"body":"They just simply make it happen without"},{"startTime":1217.161,"endTime":1223.471,"body":"even like explicitly calling that out."},{"startTime":1223.921,"endTime":1225.991,"body":"This space is now psychologically safe."},{"startTime":1226.021,"endTime":1226.261,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":1226.651,"endTime":1226.891,"body":"You know?"},{"startTime":1226.891,"endTime":1230.011,"body":"Cause I said, so that doesn't do it right."},{"startTime":1230.041,"endTime":1231.511,"body":"Because he's vocalized it."},{"startTime":1231.541,"endTime":1234.631,"body":"So the other team members now are supposed"},{"startTime":1231.541,"endTime":1234.631,"body":"to know that it's safe to speak up."},{"startTime":1235.231,"endTime":1235.471,"body":"Right."},{"startTime":1235.471,"endTime":1236.191,"body":"What else are you going to say?"},{"startTime":1236.191,"endTime":1236.761,"body":"I'm not recording."},{"startTime":1237.676,"endTime":1239.506,"body":"I'm not taking notes, right?"},{"startTime":1239.896,"endTime":1241.606,"body":"It's that's that's not going to do it."},{"startTime":1242.026,"endTime":1243.436,"body":"There are lots of other things you can do."},{"startTime":1243.436,"endTime":1244.926,"body":"I do have an open door policy."},{"startTime":1245.296,"endTime":1249.346,"body":"Anyone can walk in and say"},{"startTime":1245.296,"endTime":1249.346,"body":"anything they want don't you dare."},{"startTime":1249.466,"endTime":1252.036,"body":"I have an open door policy, but"},{"startTime":1249.466,"endTime":1252.036,"body":"my calendar is triple booked."},{"startTime":1252.046,"endTime":1253.006,"body":"Get, get back to work."},{"startTime":1257.396,"endTime":1257.696,"body":"All right."},{"startTime":1257.696,"endTime":1259.916,"body":"So now he goes into the"},{"startTime":1257.696,"endTime":1259.916,"body":"low, the lower percentages."},{"startTime":1260.126,"endTime":1265.586,"body":"50% of agile coaches are somewhat confused"},{"startTime":1260.126,"endTime":1265.586,"body":"about also being considered a life coaches"},{"startTime":1266.036,"endTime":1267.656,"body":"I don't think I'm gonna read the rest."},{"startTime":1267.656,"endTime":1269.606,"body":"I don't think I'm gonna leave"},{"startTime":1267.656,"endTime":1269.606,"body":"that one just the way it is."},{"startTime":1269.606,"endTime":1274.496,"body":"Cause I, I sort of, I dunno about 50%,"},{"startTime":1269.606,"endTime":1274.496,"body":"but I sort of agree with him on that"},{"startTime":1274.496,"endTime":1279.306,"body":"one he, and then he goes to the 20% or"},{"startTime":1274.496,"endTime":1279.306,"body":"less of all agile coaches have the right"},{"startTime":1279.306,"endTime":1281.106,"body":"personality to be a coach to begin with."},{"startTime":1281.346,"endTime":1282.726,"body":"They either talk too much."},{"startTime":1282.786,"endTime":1283.356,"body":"Oh, okay."},{"startTime":1283.466,"endTime":1286.176,"body":"His kind of point is they"},{"startTime":1283.466,"endTime":1286.176,"body":"either talk too much talk too."},{"startTime":1287.181,"endTime":1293.691,"body":"Talk when, and to whom it is not"},{"startTime":1287.181,"endTime":1293.691,"body":"appropriate, cannot keep confidentiality"},{"startTime":1293.691,"endTime":1297.981,"body":"and many don't impress with either"},{"startTime":1293.691,"endTime":1297.981,"body":"their knowledge or personality."},{"startTime":1298.641,"endTime":1301.221,"body":"His point is 20% of coaches"},{"startTime":1298.641,"endTime":1301.221,"body":"have the personality."},{"startTime":1301.431,"endTime":1304.041,"body":"They have the right personality"},{"startTime":1301.431,"endTime":1304.041,"body":"to be a coach that needs"},{"startTime":1304.041,"endTime":1305.211,"body":"to be a topic all its own."},{"startTime":1305.311,"endTime":1306.951,"body":"We'll, we'll talk about that for a second."},{"startTime":1307.251,"endTime":1311.141,"body":"And then he talks about, well, what,"},{"startTime":1307.251,"endTime":1311.141,"body":"what people do that, that is so, and,"},{"startTime":1311.141,"endTime":1314.631,"body":"and many don't impress with either"},{"startTime":1311.141,"endTime":1314.631,"body":"their knowledge or personality."},{"startTime":1314.631,"endTime":1314.871,"body":"Okay."},{"startTime":1314.921,"endTime":1319.271,"body":"so he's saying 20% of coaches actually"},{"startTime":1314.921,"endTime":1319.271,"body":"have what it takes to be a coach, but"},{"startTime":1319.271,"endTime":1322.811,"body":"the majority don't impress with either"},{"startTime":1319.271,"endTime":1322.811,"body":"knowledge of their personality without"},{"startTime":1322.811,"endTime":1327.331,"body":"like, I just told a story to own the"},{"startTime":1322.811,"endTime":1327.331,"body":"people listening or the people watching,"},{"startTime":1328.211,"endTime":1330.781,"body":"you're not going to hear the whole"},{"startTime":1328.211,"endTime":1330.781,"body":"story, but basically the summary of"},{"startTime":1330.781,"endTime":1335.501,"body":"the story was, when a recruiter told me"},{"startTime":1330.781,"endTime":1335.501,"body":"recently, cause they were looking at my"},{"startTime":1335.501,"endTime":1337.091,"body":"background or recruiter told me reading."},{"startTime":1337.776,"endTime":1342.146,"body":"That they sent a candidate on a"},{"startTime":1337.776,"endTime":1342.146,"body":"job interview and they blew through"},{"startTime":1342.146,"endTime":1343.466,"body":"all the interviews with no problem."},{"startTime":1343.466,"endTime":1344.846,"body":"And they got to the final interview."},{"startTime":1345.146,"endTime":1348.026,"body":"And in the final interview, when they"},{"startTime":1345.146,"endTime":1348.026,"body":"were talking to the actual team members"},{"startTime":1348.536,"endTime":1351.956,"body":"that they would work with, the team"},{"startTime":1348.536,"endTime":1351.956,"body":"members started in depth asking them"},{"startTime":1352.136,"endTime":1355.736,"body":"technical questions and they, they just"},{"startTime":1352.136,"endTime":1355.736,"body":"failed all the technical questions."},{"startTime":1355.786,"endTime":1358.366,"body":"They couldn't hang with what"},{"startTime":1355.786,"endTime":1358.366,"body":"the, the actual work that"},{"startTime":1358.366,"endTime":1359.596,"body":"the team was actually doing."},{"startTime":1359.596,"endTime":1362.116,"body":"The technical work that it seems"},{"startTime":1359.596,"endTime":1362.116,"body":"they couldn't understand it."},{"startTime":1362.116,"endTime":1363.046,"body":"That's, that's really what it is."},{"startTime":1363.046,"endTime":1366.506,"body":"Cause I mean, a product person, this"},{"startTime":1363.046,"endTime":1366.506,"body":"is probably a much deeper conversation"},{"startTime":1366.506,"endTime":1369.626,"body":"and we could have that separately, but"},{"startTime":1366.506,"endTime":1369.626,"body":"the, the product person doesn't need"},{"startTime":1369.626,"endTime":1373.046,"body":"to understand, like if you're writing"},{"startTime":1369.626,"endTime":1373.046,"body":"code in Python, you shouldn't be asking"},{"startTime":1373.046,"endTime":1375.026,"body":"coding questions to your product person."},{"startTime":1375.146,"endTime":1375.446,"body":"Right."},{"startTime":1375.686,"endTime":1380.306,"body":"however, you product person should,"},{"startTime":1375.686,"endTime":1380.306,"body":"I mean, at a high level, understand."},{"startTime":1381.081,"endTime":1384.291,"body":"Why you're using Python as"},{"startTime":1381.081,"endTime":1384.291,"body":"opposed to another language?"},{"startTime":1384.381,"endTime":1384.841,"body":"Maybe."},{"startTime":1385.011,"endTime":1387.321,"body":"Yeah, maybe."},{"startTime":1387.411,"endTime":1390.671,"body":"I mean, if you're looking for, if"},{"startTime":1387.411,"endTime":1390.671,"body":"you're looking for just, just, just"},{"startTime":1390.671,"endTime":1393.341,"body":"for a quick reason why someone might"},{"startTime":1390.671,"endTime":1393.341,"body":"be like, oh, I don't understand"},{"startTime":1393.341,"endTime":1394.571,"body":"anything about why Python is different."},{"startTime":1394.721,"endTime":1398.111,"body":"Like, if you're looking for a"},{"startTime":1394.721,"endTime":1398.111,"body":"lightweight light barrier to entry"},{"startTime":1398.141,"endTime":1403.111,"body":"language that that's pretty quick"},{"startTime":1398.141,"endTime":1403.111,"body":"to do what you need to do, like"},{"startTime":1403.111,"endTime":1404.401,"body":"Python might be a good one for you."},{"startTime":1404.401,"endTime":1407.581,"body":"Also also Python is a, is a"},{"startTime":1404.401,"endTime":1407.581,"body":"language of data science as well."},{"startTime":1407.581,"endTime":1410.741,"body":"So if you're doing quick data"},{"startTime":1407.581,"endTime":1410.741,"body":"transformation, data science type of"},{"startTime":1410.741,"endTime":1412.391,"body":"stuff, Python is a really good language."},{"startTime":1412.661,"endTime":1417.191,"body":"And there are Python notebooks that"},{"startTime":1412.661,"endTime":1417.191,"body":"you can publish and let users interact"},{"startTime":1417.191,"endTime":1421.401,"body":"with and at different stages in the, in"},{"startTime":1417.191,"endTime":1421.401,"body":"the runtime but but that Python might"},{"startTime":1421.401,"endTime":1425.661,"body":"be a good choice for you over like a"},{"startTime":1421.401,"endTime":1425.661,"body":"heavier weight language, like Java or"},{"startTime":1425.691,"endTime":1427.101,"body":"C plus plus or something like that."},{"startTime":1427.101,"endTime":1430.761,"body":"When you need like real fine"},{"startTime":1427.101,"endTime":1430.761,"body":"granular control of every"},{"startTime":1430.761,"endTime":1432.301,"body":"little thing, again, like."},{"startTime":1434.111,"endTime":1435.101,"body":"A lot of product people."},{"startTime":1435.101,"endTime":1437.711,"body":"I don't know if they would, I know"},{"startTime":1435.101,"endTime":1437.711,"body":"this, guy's not talking about product"},{"startTime":1437.711,"endTime":1443.201,"body":"people, but I would expect with his"},{"startTime":1437.711,"endTime":1443.201,"body":"leaps of logic that he's taking product"},{"startTime":1443.201,"endTime":1446.561,"body":"people would be two, three steps ahead"},{"startTime":1443.201,"endTime":1446.561,"body":"of where he's at, because he's talking"},{"startTime":1446.561,"endTime":1449.801,"body":"about like the agile coaches are sitting"},{"startTime":1446.561,"endTime":1449.801,"body":"closer and represent the team than"},{"startTime":1449.801,"endTime":1453.761,"body":"most product people, product people"},{"startTime":1449.801,"endTime":1453.761,"body":"have a division from the team normally."},{"startTime":1453.791,"endTime":1456.701,"body":"So I would expect whatever"},{"startTime":1453.791,"endTime":1456.701,"body":"I'm talking about for product."},{"startTime":1457.571,"endTime":1460.301,"body":"The Agile Coaches would be"},{"startTime":1457.571,"endTime":1460.301,"body":"even closer to the team."},{"startTime":1460.671,"endTime":1466.061,"body":"I worked with the team one time that"},{"startTime":1460.671,"endTime":1466.061,"body":"were the team was establishing DevOps"},{"startTime":1466.691,"endTime":1468.731,"body":"pipelines to deploy their software."},{"startTime":1469.481,"endTime":1470.651,"body":"And I had done that before."},{"startTime":1470.741,"endTime":1471.131,"body":"Right."},{"startTime":1471.431,"endTime":1477.291,"body":"You know, so-so the team was looking for"},{"startTime":1471.431,"endTime":1477.291,"body":"a product person that understood like,"},{"startTime":1477.291,"endTime":1481.551,"body":"well, these are the reasons why we need"},{"startTime":1477.291,"endTime":1481.551,"body":"to transform from doing manual deployments"},{"startTime":1481.551,"endTime":1485.871,"body":"to doing automatic cause they're automatic"},{"startTime":1481.551,"endTime":1485.871,"body":"deployments to their pipelines were a"},{"startTime":1485.871,"endTime":1490.641,"body":"combination of deploying software to"},{"startTime":1485.871,"endTime":1490.641,"body":"environment, but also some, some data"},{"startTime":1490.641,"endTime":1492.981,"body":"transformation, ETL kind of stuff."},{"startTime":1492.981,"endTime":1493.221,"body":"Sure."},{"startTime":1493.341,"endTime":1495.861,"body":"They would, they would take"},{"startTime":1493.341,"endTime":1495.861,"body":"from a source, consume it."},{"startTime":1496.011,"endTime":1497.241,"body":"It would go through the pipeline."},{"startTime":1497.421,"endTime":1500.801,"body":"It would get deployed to the environments"},{"startTime":1497.421,"endTime":1500.801,"body":"that we were that we were hosting"},{"startTime":1501.191,"endTime":1504.881,"body":"and some data transformation and"},{"startTime":1501.191,"endTime":1504.881,"body":"stuff would occur along the way."},{"startTime":1505.551,"endTime":1507.121,"body":"Most of our customers wouldn't need to."},{"startTime":1508.586,"endTime":1512.786,"body":"To a technical level, how things work,"},{"startTime":1508.586,"endTime":1512.786,"body":"but it might be helpful for them to"},{"startTime":1512.786,"endTime":1514.586,"body":"understand the terms and what they are."},{"startTime":1514.586,"endTime":1514.886,"body":"Sure."},{"startTime":1515.096,"endTime":1519.196,"body":"So when, when somebody mentions Python,"},{"startTime":1515.096,"endTime":1519.196,"body":"they should just know that that is a"},{"startTime":1519.436,"endTime":1522.346,"body":"tool that the team is using for whatever."},{"startTime":1522.706,"endTime":1522.946,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":1523.366,"endTime":1526.336,"body":"That's it, they don't have to worry"},{"startTime":1523.366,"endTime":1526.336,"body":"about the, how or anything like that."},{"startTime":1526.336,"endTime":1526.666,"body":"Right."},{"startTime":1526.816,"endTime":1531.216,"body":"That's what the teams they have for,"},{"startTime":1526.816,"endTime":1531.216,"body":"those broad donors that basically say,"},{"startTime":1531.216,"endTime":1532.566,"body":"well, that's just technical stuff."},{"startTime":1532.566,"endTime":1533.556,"body":"I leave it to the team."},{"startTime":1534.426,"endTime":1535.056,"body":"Okay."},{"startTime":1535.356,"endTime":1536.466,"body":"They're also right."},{"startTime":1536.586,"endTime":1539.286,"body":"Cause it's not their role"},{"startTime":1536.586,"endTime":1539.286,"body":"to understand the technology"},{"startTime":1539.436,"endTime":1541.236,"body":"and the detail to the detail."},{"startTime":1541.496,"endTime":1544.376,"body":"I do have a bone to pick on this"},{"startTime":1541.496,"endTime":1544.376,"body":"particular topic with this fellow"},{"startTime":1544.376,"endTime":1547.476,"body":"though, when he talks about"},{"startTime":1544.376,"endTime":1547.476,"body":"many don't impress with either"},{"startTime":1547.476,"endTime":1549.066,"body":"their knowledge or personality."},{"startTime":1549.066,"endTime":1554.256,"body":"Now, now this is where things go"},{"startTime":1549.066,"endTime":1554.256,"body":"the opposite direction for coaching."},{"startTime":1554.286,"endTime":1555.266,"body":"This is where it breaks down."},{"startTime":1555.276,"endTime":1556.986,"body":"So it breaks down because"},{"startTime":1555.276,"endTime":1556.986,"body":"a lot of people are."},{"startTime":1557.736,"endTime":1561.996,"body":"Well, when you're coaching, let the"},{"startTime":1557.736,"endTime":1561.996,"body":"team find their own solution, right?"},{"startTime":1562.026,"endTime":1563.436,"body":"Don't feed them the solution."},{"startTime":1563.556,"endTime":1563.736,"body":"Right?"},{"startTime":1563.766,"endTime":1564.546,"body":"What do you do there?"},{"startTime":1564.546,"endTime":1568.926,"body":"You talk less, you let them come"},{"startTime":1564.546,"endTime":1568.926,"body":"up with provide guard rails if you"},{"startTime":1568.926,"endTime":1570.966,"body":"want, but let them come up with it."},{"startTime":1571.236,"endTime":1574.176,"body":"Some would even say it's"},{"startTime":1571.236,"endTime":1574.176,"body":"okay to let them fail."},{"startTime":1574.446,"endTime":1576.396,"body":"I'll jump in and defend his point here."},{"startTime":1576.396,"endTime":1578.196,"body":"Let's let's rip this point apart."},{"startTime":1578.496,"endTime":1581.696,"body":"So his point here that we're"},{"startTime":1578.496,"endTime":1581.696,"body":"talking about is 20% or less."},{"startTime":1581.696,"endTime":1584.926,"body":"Again, his, his percentage numbers"},{"startTime":1581.696,"endTime":1584.926,"body":"are just garbage, he's saying very"},{"startTime":1584.926,"endTime":1587.476,"body":"few agile coaches, one out of five."},{"startTime":1587.506,"endTime":1588.406,"body":"That's his number?"},{"startTime":1589.216,"endTime":1589.786,"body":"I don't know."},{"startTime":1590.656,"endTime":1594.646,"body":"I don't know about that number, but a one"},{"startTime":1590.656,"endTime":1594.646,"body":"out of five agile coaches have the right"},{"startTime":1594.646,"endTime":1596.446,"body":"personality to be a coach to begin with."},{"startTime":1596.716,"endTime":1596.956,"body":"Right."},{"startTime":1597.006,"endTime":1602.136,"body":"They bring the right skills, the right"},{"startTime":1597.006,"endTime":1602.136,"body":"natural skills to the career field to"},{"startTime":1602.136,"endTime":1607.446,"body":"start before you stack on expertise or"},{"startTime":1602.136,"endTime":1607.446,"body":"training or certifications or whatever."},{"startTime":1608.091,"endTime":1612.051,"body":"He says, eh, talk too much or talk to you"},{"startTime":1608.091,"endTime":1612.051,"body":"a little, or are they talk about things"},{"startTime":1612.051,"endTime":1616.251,"body":"that aren't appropriate to talk about or"},{"startTime":1612.051,"endTime":1616.251,"body":"break confidentiality, or they don't come"},{"startTime":1616.251,"endTime":1620.671,"body":"across to impress people with the skill"},{"startTime":1616.251,"endTime":1620.671,"body":"or the knowledge or their personality."},{"startTime":1621.241,"endTime":1625.021,"body":"I am going to get behind him and"},{"startTime":1621.241,"endTime":1625.021,"body":"defend him for a second, a second,"},{"startTime":1625.441,"endTime":1630.421,"body":"because yeah, there is a gosh, there's"},{"startTime":1625.441,"endTime":1630.421,"body":"an agile coach on Lincoln that had"},{"startTime":1630.421,"endTime":1633.451,"body":"a great post, but I should, I should"},{"startTime":1630.421,"endTime":1633.451,"body":"stop and try to find it for a second."},{"startTime":1633.451,"endTime":1637.021,"body":"But then he's like, if these things"},{"startTime":1633.451,"endTime":1637.021,"body":"are in your personality, you have the"},{"startTime":1637.171,"endTime":1638.641,"body":"potential to be a great agile coach."},{"startTime":1639.001,"endTime":1641.521,"body":"And it's difficult to"},{"startTime":1639.001,"endTime":1641.521,"body":"challenge your own assumptions."},{"startTime":1642.631,"endTime":1642.931,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":1642.931,"endTime":1644.191,"body":"Yeah, I get that."},{"startTime":1644.221,"endTime":1646.591,"body":"I just always we've thrown"},{"startTime":1644.221,"endTime":1646.591,"body":"away the percentage."},{"startTime":1646.591,"endTime":1646.891,"body":"Right."},{"startTime":1647.161,"endTime":1651.811,"body":"So having the right personality, how do"},{"startTime":1647.161,"endTime":1651.811,"body":"you know you have the right personality?"},{"startTime":1651.811,"endTime":1655.831,"body":"A lot of the agile coaches come up"},{"startTime":1651.811,"endTime":1655.831,"body":"through becoming a scrum master and"},{"startTime":1655.831,"endTime":1657.541,"body":"then up, they go the chain, right?"},{"startTime":1657.771,"endTime":1662.941,"body":"When they gather more experience, I would"},{"startTime":1657.771,"endTime":1662.941,"body":"say just that by definition would mean"},{"startTime":1662.941,"endTime":1664.831,"body":"that you've molded your personality."},{"startTime":1664.921,"endTime":1666.721,"body":"You're a scrum master, right?"},{"startTime":1666.841,"endTime":1669.301,"body":"You're a servant leader"},{"startTime":1666.841,"endTime":1669.301,"body":"of all things, right?"},{"startTime":1669.361,"endTime":1671.131,"body":"So you would have the personality."},{"startTime":1671.371,"endTime":1672.271,"body":"You wouldn't last long."},{"startTime":1672.271,"endTime":1673.021,"body":"If you didn't."},{"startTime":1673.351,"endTime":1676.831,"body":"Now, granted, there are some"},{"startTime":1673.351,"endTime":1676.831,"body":"people who were against it through"},{"startTime":1676.831,"endTime":1680.251,"body":"the class and go, Hey, I have a"},{"startTime":1676.831,"endTime":1680.251,"body":"cert here that says I'm an agile."},{"startTime":1681.091,"endTime":1681.451,"body":"Right."},{"startTime":1681.511,"endTime":1685.591,"body":"Those are the same people more than likely"},{"startTime":1681.511,"endTime":1685.591,"body":"they did the same thing with their scrum"},{"startTime":1685.591,"endTime":1687.991,"body":"master or Product Owner certifications."},{"startTime":1688.391,"endTime":1691.451,"body":"These are people that really"},{"startTime":1688.391,"endTime":1691.451,"body":"didn't walk the walk anyway."},{"startTime":1691.751,"endTime":1693.671,"body":"So yes, that's, there's"},{"startTime":1691.751,"endTime":1693.671,"body":"a percentage of that."},{"startTime":1693.671,"endTime":1694.391,"body":"Is it one in five?"},{"startTime":1694.391,"endTime":1694.751,"body":"I don't know."},{"startTime":1694.871,"endTime":1699.161,"body":"But there, there are those to his point,"},{"startTime":1694.871,"endTime":1699.161,"body":"of course, you're going to get that right."},{"startTime":1699.851,"endTime":1703.311,"body":"But I don't think it's a big number"},{"startTime":1699.851,"endTime":1703.311,"body":"because they don't survive , in the field."},{"startTime":1703.731,"endTime":1704.781,"body":"They will get weeded out"},{"startTime":1706.441,"endTime":1710.701,"body":"Where this one connects with me is"},{"startTime":1706.441,"endTime":1710.701,"body":"I do feel there's a lot of people"},{"startTime":1710.701,"endTime":1716.111,"body":"out there that have a very tough"},{"startTime":1710.701,"endTime":1716.111,"body":"time putting their ego aside."},{"startTime":1717.371,"endTime":1717.821,"body":"Yes."},{"startTime":1718.151,"endTime":1718.571,"body":"Okay."},{"startTime":1718.631,"endTime":1721.151,"body":"Because none of this is about you."},{"startTime":1721.961,"endTime":1725.171,"body":"It's about helping the team evolve."},{"startTime":1726.161,"endTime":1730.331,"body":"And like also it might not even be"},{"startTime":1726.161,"endTime":1730.331,"body":"fair to say putting your ego aside"},{"startTime":1730.331,"endTime":1734.631,"body":"because, we've talked about this before,"},{"startTime":1730.331,"endTime":1734.631,"body":"long, long, long time ago about meet"},{"startTime":1734.631,"endTime":1738.771,"body":"them where they are, you know I have"},{"startTime":1734.631,"endTime":1738.771,"body":"a very difficult time with meet them"},{"startTime":1738.771,"endTime":1742.971,"body":"where they are when you know that"},{"startTime":1738.771,"endTime":1742.971,"body":"where they are is in a very bad place."},{"startTime":1744.141,"endTime":1744.381,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":1744.381,"endTime":1748.251,"body":"We have talked about this where I think,"},{"startTime":1744.381,"endTime":1748.251,"body":"I think I might have said something like,"},{"startTime":1748.281,"endTime":1752.631,"body":"well, I don't want to meet them where they"},{"startTime":1748.281,"endTime":1752.631,"body":"are, because where they are is not ideal."},{"startTime":1752.631,"endTime":1754.551,"body":"I'm here because they"},{"startTime":1752.631,"endTime":1754.551,"body":"don't like where they are."},{"startTime":1754.611,"endTime":1757.011,"body":"Yeah that's another"},{"startTime":1754.611,"endTime":1757.011,"body":"phrase that's overused."},{"startTime":1757.011,"endTime":1758.661,"body":"So that's three now, today, right?"},{"startTime":1758.771,"endTime":1759.741,"body":"These are overused."},{"startTime":1759.771,"endTime":1760.611,"body":"Meet them where they are."},{"startTime":1761.331,"endTime":1765.621,"body":"I think to me, I interpret that"},{"startTime":1761.331,"endTime":1765.621,"body":"as just don't force anything."},{"startTime":1765.681,"endTime":1766.341,"body":"Right, right."},{"startTime":1766.341,"endTime":1769.371,"body":"And bring them up gradually,"},{"startTime":1766.341,"endTime":1769.371,"body":"just don't come in and say,"},{"startTime":1769.371,"endTime":1770.631,"body":"I'm going to grow by agile."},{"startTime":1770.841,"endTime":1771.021,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":1771.051,"endTime":1771.201,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":1771.201,"endTime":1775.481,"body":"This is the part where we're we'll"},{"startTime":1771.201,"endTime":1775.481,"body":"we, we will kind of dig in and, and"},{"startTime":1775.721,"endTime":1778.931,"body":"we're, we'll hit some friction to"},{"startTime":1775.721,"endTime":1778.931,"body":"try to figure out how we get past it."},{"startTime":1779.411,"endTime":1782.051,"body":"As a scrum master, agile coach,"},{"startTime":1779.411,"endTime":1782.051,"body":"whatever, whatever you want to call"},{"startTime":1782.051,"endTime":1787.471,"body":"it  if I see a bunch of things that"},{"startTime":1782.051,"endTime":1787.471,"body":"I consider problems, this, this is a"},{"startTime":1787.501,"endTime":1789.301,"body":"judgemental thing that we get into, right?"},{"startTime":1789.301,"endTime":1792.511,"body":"This is where Corey was yelling at me"},{"startTime":1789.301,"endTime":1792.511,"body":"on the podcast where she was on like"},{"startTime":1792.661,"endTime":1796.831,"body":"there issues like it, and people will"},{"startTime":1792.661,"endTime":1796.831,"body":"be like, oh, who, Brian, who are you?"},{"startTime":1796.831,"endTime":1798.061,"body":"Just say that there are issues."},{"startTime":1798.061,"endTime":1801.361,"body":"Like if you're doing all manual"},{"startTime":1798.061,"endTime":1801.361,"body":"deployments and pajama party"},{"startTime":1801.361,"endTime":1805.251,"body":"deployments, instead of having"},{"startTime":1801.361,"endTime":1805.251,"body":"good CICT, that's a problem."},{"startTime":1806.591,"endTime":1812.181,"body":"If, if I can't deploy, but once"},{"startTime":1806.591,"endTime":1812.181,"body":"every eight, nine months or even"},{"startTime":1812.181,"endTime":1814.131,"body":"weeks, let's say I can't employ you."},{"startTime":1814.131,"endTime":1817.911,"body":"But every, every quarter I do one"},{"startTime":1814.131,"endTime":1817.911,"body":"deployment, a quarter to production, no"},{"startTime":1817.911,"endTime":1821.301,"body":"matter how many deployments go to Sage"},{"startTime":1817.911,"endTime":1821.301,"body":"or whatever one deployment to production"},{"startTime":1821.301,"endTime":1823.131,"body":"per quarter, because I'm so scared."},{"startTime":1823.521,"endTime":1826.011,"body":"And it causes such a havoc on production."},{"startTime":1826.011,"endTime":1829.311,"body":"When I really testing is so"},{"startTime":1826.011,"endTime":1829.311,"body":"bad or whatever, or quality"},{"startTime":1829.311,"endTime":1830.541,"body":"is so bad, it's not testing."},{"startTime":1830.571,"endTime":1831.201,"body":"That's not unfair."},{"startTime":1831.261,"endTime":1831.741,"body":"It's quality."},{"startTime":1831.741,"endTime":1832.761,"body":"So quality."},{"startTime":1834.051,"endTime":1838.281,"body":"That it's a huge problem when I"},{"startTime":1834.051,"endTime":1838.281,"body":"deploy to production that's a problem."},{"startTime":1838.281,"endTime":1840.081,"body":"Like these are all business risks."},{"startTime":1840.231,"endTime":1846.991,"body":"So, I mean, I guess if you truly were"},{"startTime":1840.231,"endTime":1846.991,"body":"like the agile coach, Zen master, they're"},{"startTime":1846.991,"endTime":1853.921,"body":"all problems, but like, oh, like he let"},{"startTime":1846.991,"endTime":1853.921,"body":"them flow through you and ignore them"},{"startTime":1853.921,"endTime":1855.511,"body":"all I can't, I can't ignore them all."},{"startTime":1855.511,"endTime":1859.671,"body":"There are like a how if I'm part of the"},{"startTime":1855.511,"endTime":1859.671,"body":"organization and I know a better way,"},{"startTime":1860.571,"endTime":1865.641,"body":"like I have to let people know, Hey, this"},{"startTime":1860.571,"endTime":1865.641,"body":"is what, what we should be shooting for."},{"startTime":1866.271,"endTime":1871.291,"body":"And we're here now, but, but I, but we"},{"startTime":1866.271,"endTime":1871.291,"body":"need to be aligned on we're here now."},{"startTime":1872.011,"endTime":1873.631,"body":"This is where we could be."},{"startTime":1874.081,"endTime":1875.791,"body":"Do we want to get there?"},{"startTime":1875.821,"endTime":1878.791,"body":"let's at least have the conversation"},{"startTime":1875.821,"endTime":1878.791,"body":"of, do we want to get here?"},{"startTime":1879.361,"endTime":1880.281,"body":"I think you nailed it."},{"startTime":1880.311,"endTime":1884.961,"body":"So oftentimes some people say as an agile"},{"startTime":1880.311,"endTime":1884.961,"body":"coach, you're just going to let things go."},{"startTime":1885.936,"endTime":1886.326,"body":"Right."},{"startTime":1886.626,"endTime":1890.316,"body":"So just don't impinge"},{"startTime":1886.626,"endTime":1890.316,"body":"anything on the team."},{"startTime":1890.406,"endTime":1891.636,"body":"No process changes."},{"startTime":1891.636,"endTime":1893.466,"body":"Just let them figure"},{"startTime":1891.636,"endTime":1893.466,"body":"it out for themselves."},{"startTime":1893.496,"endTime":1893.736,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":1894.126,"endTime":1896.136,"body":"What do you think they will,"},{"startTime":1894.126,"endTime":1896.136,"body":"they would have done by now."},{"startTime":1896.346,"endTime":1897.306,"body":"So why are you here?"},{"startTime":1897.396,"endTime":1897.726,"body":"Right."},{"startTime":1897.726,"endTime":1898.326,"body":"Seriously."},{"startTime":1898.926,"endTime":1902.046,"body":"So pick something and"},{"startTime":1898.926,"endTime":1902.046,"body":"improve on that, right."},{"startTime":1902.376,"endTime":1904.686,"body":"And then say, okay, what"},{"startTime":1902.376,"endTime":1904.686,"body":"else can we be doing?"},{"startTime":1904.756,"endTime":1906.426,"body":"Make something else, keep going."},{"startTime":1907.056,"endTime":1910.516,"body":"That's what I would say when I was"},{"startTime":1907.056,"endTime":1910.516,"body":"part of it, when I was a scrum master"},{"startTime":1910.516,"endTime":1913.726,"body":"slash agile coach on a, on a very large"},{"startTime":1910.516,"endTime":1913.726,"body":"by actually I wouldn't even really a"},{"startTime":1913.726,"endTime":1915.346,"body":"ScrumMaster cause I did product as well."},{"startTime":1915.346,"endTime":1919.946,"body":"So it was more like a program manager on"},{"startTime":1915.346,"endTime":1919.946,"body":"a larger program I remember a particularly"},{"startTime":1919.946,"endTime":1924.596,"body":"a demanding stakeholder was like, why are"},{"startTime":1919.946,"endTime":1924.596,"body":"you asking what we could be doing better?"},{"startTime":1924.626,"endTime":1927.716,"body":"Haven't you been on enough programs"},{"startTime":1924.626,"endTime":1927.716,"body":"you just tell us what to do better."},{"startTime":1928.286,"endTime":1928.616,"body":"Right."},{"startTime":1928.856,"endTime":1930.536,"body":"So that's where  you're guiding."},{"startTime":1931.556,"endTime":1932.456,"body":"Method comes in."},{"startTime":1932.456,"endTime":1932.786,"body":"Right."},{"startTime":1932.936,"endTime":1936.686,"body":"Not telling them so much as w what"},{"startTime":1932.936,"endTime":1936.686,"body":"do you think this might work for you?"},{"startTime":1936.796,"endTime":1939.326,"body":"You think you could try"},{"startTime":1936.796,"endTime":1939.326,"body":"that for a sprinter?"},{"startTime":1939.326,"endTime":1943.296,"body":"So, yeah as opposed to"},{"startTime":1939.326,"endTime":1943.296,"body":"I'm here now, right?"},{"startTime":1943.506,"endTime":1946.896,"body":"This is what you need to do, because"},{"startTime":1943.506,"endTime":1946.896,"body":"I say so, yeah, that seldom works."},{"startTime":1946.926,"endTime":1950.406,"body":"Even if what you're saying is the right"},{"startTime":1946.926,"endTime":1950.406,"body":"thing, because there is no buy-in there."},{"startTime":1950.436,"endTime":1951.306,"body":"You're just forcing it."},{"startTime":1951.576,"endTime":1955.626,"body":"Well, that's, that's what he's saying here"},{"startTime":1951.576,"endTime":1955.626,"body":"only one out of five coaches know when"},{"startTime":1955.626,"endTime":1958.956,"body":"to talk and when not to talk, he's not"},{"startTime":1955.626,"endTime":1958.956,"body":"talking about, he's talking about skill."},{"startTime":1959.256,"endTime":1964.006,"body":"I'm talking about when to step in to"},{"startTime":1959.256,"endTime":1964.006,"body":"coach and when to lean back and let"},{"startTime":1964.006,"endTime":1970.376,"body":"things happen when to meet them when they"},{"startTime":1964.006,"endTime":1970.376,"body":"are versus when to drive to the goal."},{"startTime":1970.556,"endTime":1973.926,"body":"I would kind of argue with him if"},{"startTime":1970.556,"endTime":1973.926,"body":"I'm going to break, I know I was"},{"startTime":1973.926,"endTime":1977.006,"body":"supposed to be representing his"},{"startTime":1973.926,"endTime":1977.006,"body":"position, but Hey, it's, our podcast."},{"startTime":1977.006,"endTime":1977.906,"body":"So I do whatever I want."},{"startTime":1978.216,"endTime":1980.336,"body":"If I'm going to break with"},{"startTime":1978.216,"endTime":1980.336,"body":"what he's saying, like."},{"startTime":1981.836,"endTime":1987.416,"body":"If your alignment in the organization"},{"startTime":1981.836,"endTime":1987.416,"body":"has a big part to play in."},{"startTime":1987.896,"endTime":1994.466,"body":"If you can do this, if you're aligned"},{"startTime":1987.896,"endTime":1994.466,"body":"at the team level and your opinion is"},{"startTime":1994.466,"endTime":1999.746,"body":"not a desired at the leadership level,"},{"startTime":1994.466,"endTime":1999.746,"body":"you're not going to say anything about"},{"startTime":1999.746,"endTime":2004.826,"body":"like, maybe your leadership should"},{"startTime":1999.746,"endTime":2004.826,"body":"have a leads level combine board where"},{"startTime":2004.826,"endTime":2008.676,"body":"I can put my blockers on and I can"},{"startTime":2004.826,"endTime":2008.676,"body":"put things on for you to get help my"},{"startTime":2008.676,"endTime":2012.066,"body":"team with or whatever it's like, yeah."},{"startTime":2012.096,"endTime":2015.546,"body":"We're not really about helping other"},{"startTime":2012.096,"endTime":2015.546,"body":"people around in this organization."},{"startTime":2015.546,"endTime":2021.136,"body":"Just stay quiet and do what  we pay"},{"startTime":2015.546,"endTime":2021.136,"body":"you by the hour to do a, you know yeah."},{"startTime":2021.166,"endTime":2023.916,"body":"I mean, these are"},{"startTime":2021.166,"endTime":2023.916,"body":"organizations that hire yes."},{"startTime":2023.916,"endTime":2024.546,"body":"Folks, right?"},{"startTime":2024.576,"endTime":2024.746,"body":"Right."},{"startTime":2024.746,"endTime":2024.966,"body":"Yes."},{"startTime":2024.966,"endTime":2028.266,"body":"Men, yes, women and th and that"},{"startTime":2024.966,"endTime":2028.266,"body":"point at that point, the agile"},{"startTime":2028.266,"endTime":2029.496,"body":"coach has to make a decision."},{"startTime":2029.496,"endTime":2031.116,"body":"Is that what they're there to do?"},{"startTime":2032.166,"endTime":2032.436,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":2032.616,"endTime":2035.246,"body":"Sometimes you don't move"},{"startTime":2032.616,"endTime":2035.246,"body":"the needle you don't right."},{"startTime":2035.246,"endTime":2036.656,"body":"You got to decide what"},{"startTime":2035.246,"endTime":2036.656,"body":"are you going to do?"},{"startTime":2036.716,"endTime":2039.146,"body":"You just leave it alone"},{"startTime":2036.716,"endTime":2039.146,"body":"or just break the needle?"},{"startTime":2040.106,"endTime":2045.426,"body":"Yeah, that's that's the old again I can't"},{"startTime":2040.106,"endTime":2045.426,"body":"believe a we're 60 plus episodes in and"},{"startTime":2045.426,"endTime":2046.866,"body":"mark has not been on the podcast yet."},{"startTime":2046.896,"endTime":2050.626,"body":"That's that's the old mark mark ism"},{"startTime":2046.896,"endTime":2050.626,"body":"is a you should always be on the edge"},{"startTime":2050.646,"endTime":2053.576,"body":"we getting fired and that's how you're"},{"startTime":2050.646,"endTime":2053.576,"body":"being effective as a scrum master."},{"startTime":2054.266,"endTime":2057.656,"body":"You don't know, you don't know if"},{"startTime":2054.266,"endTime":2057.656,"body":"they're going to ask you back next week."},{"startTime":2058.046,"endTime":2059.756,"body":"Yeah, we should."},{"startTime":2059.786,"endTime":2060.206,"body":"I should."},{"startTime":2060.446,"endTime":2063.746,"body":"I should leave that name drop in the"},{"startTime":2060.446,"endTime":2063.746,"body":"podcast and just tag him on LinkedIn."},{"startTime":2064.456,"endTime":2066.326,"body":"Let's cut back to , the"},{"startTime":2064.456,"endTime":2066.326,"body":"end of his article."},{"startTime":2066.356,"endTime":2068.046,"body":"I can't believe there's"},{"startTime":2066.356,"endTime":2068.046,"body":"still article happening."},{"startTime":2068.226,"endTime":2068.496,"body":"Anyway."},{"startTime":2068.496,"endTime":2073.566,"body":"He says, so 20% we talked about 20%,"},{"startTime":2068.496,"endTime":2073.566,"body":"5% of agile coaches are truly agile"},{"startTime":2073.566,"endTime":2076.026,"body":"trainers that teach agile coaches."},{"startTime":2076.356,"endTime":2077.376,"body":"How to, well, wait a minute."},{"startTime":2077.376,"endTime":2078.216,"body":"What are we talking about now?"},{"startTime":2080.796,"endTime":2081.636,"body":"I'm so confused."},{"startTime":2081.936,"endTime":2085.536,"body":"They get paid by agile coaches"},{"startTime":2081.936,"endTime":2085.536,"body":"for passing easy digit."},{"startTime":2085.576,"endTime":2087.096,"body":"Oh, so he's accusing."},{"startTime":2087.126,"endTime":2087.846,"body":"I get, I go."},{"startTime":2088.026,"endTime":2095.866,"body":"So 5% of the people who are agile"},{"startTime":2088.026,"endTime":2095.866,"body":"coaching get paid to propagate the"},{"startTime":2095.896,"endTime":2097.876,"body":"industry is what he's saying out of this."},{"startTime":2098.656,"endTime":2099.406,"body":"That's what he's saying."},{"startTime":2099.746,"endTime":2102.916,"body":"They get paid by agile coaches"},{"startTime":2099.746,"endTime":2102.916,"body":"for passing easy tests, digital"},{"startTime":2102.916,"endTime":2104.266,"body":"badges, and certifications."},{"startTime":2104.506,"endTime":2107.446,"body":"Supposedly providing the"},{"startTime":2104.506,"endTime":2107.446,"body":"air quotes, secret sauce."},{"startTime":2107.566,"endTime":2110.716,"body":"I know it's quotes, but I like"},{"startTime":2107.566,"endTime":2110.716,"body":"seeing air quotes that make companies"},{"startTime":2110.716,"endTime":2114.481,"body":"successful and fail to realize that"},{"startTime":2110.716,"endTime":2114.481,"body":"once you offer a public training, The"},{"startTime":2114.481,"endTime":2116.671,"body":"secret sauce isn't secret anymore."},{"startTime":2116.821,"endTime":2121.051,"body":"I don't really know what, who he's"},{"startTime":2116.821,"endTime":2121.051,"body":"accusing here, but I think he's, I think"},{"startTime":2121.051,"endTime":2124.441,"body":"he's, he is going after the, and like 5%."},{"startTime":2124.531,"endTime":2130.141,"body":"I mean, like that seems a pretty low,"},{"startTime":2124.531,"endTime":2130.141,"body":"got most of the trainers that I've"},{"startTime":2130.141,"endTime":2135.661,"body":"met here have their own, I want to say"},{"startTime":2130.141,"endTime":2135.661,"body":"nuance, but that's too mild of a word."},{"startTime":2136.171,"endTime":2140.791,"body":"They're their own way of"},{"startTime":2136.171,"endTime":2140.791,"body":"impressing upon people the way"},{"startTime":2140.791,"endTime":2142.441,"body":"they want to train, basically."},{"startTime":2142.471,"endTime":2145.351,"body":"And I think that's maybe"},{"startTime":2142.471,"endTime":2145.351,"body":"where he's heading with this."},{"startTime":2145.471,"endTime":2145.711,"body":"All right."},{"startTime":2146.071,"endTime":2147.661,"body":"I do want to argue one or the other side."},{"startTime":2148.571,"endTime":2152.331,"body":"I I don't want to get"},{"startTime":2148.571,"endTime":2152.331,"body":"involved pleading the fifth."},{"startTime":2153.541,"endTime":2154.981,"body":"I kind of want to leave this one alone."},{"startTime":2154.981,"endTime":2159.941,"body":"I like these accusing trainers of"},{"startTime":2154.981,"endTime":2159.941,"body":"propagating the whole issue, but or the"},{"startTime":2159.941,"endTime":2162.821,"body":"problems or whatever, but I don't want"},{"startTime":2159.941,"endTime":2162.821,"body":"to say Sam by the trainers though, right?"},{"startTime":2162.851,"endTime":2164.411,"body":"The strainers and then their strainers."},{"startTime":2164.891,"endTime":2171.131,"body":"So now that's one of the unfortunate"},{"startTime":2164.891,"endTime":2171.131,"body":"consequences of the pandemic is you can"},{"startTime":2171.131,"endTime":2176.321,"body":"take remote classes, you can take remote"},{"startTime":2171.131,"endTime":2176.321,"body":"classes for a fraction of the cost."},{"startTime":2176.711,"endTime":2177.071,"body":"Right."},{"startTime":2177.101,"endTime":2178.631,"body":"And there's a lot of trainers."},{"startTime":2178.661,"endTime":2181.001,"body":"They are certified trainers."},{"startTime":2181.001,"endTime":2184.271,"body":"There's no doubt about that,"},{"startTime":2181.001,"endTime":2184.271,"body":"but are they effective?"},{"startTime":2184.331,"endTime":2187.721,"body":"Have they actually been in the"},{"startTime":2184.331,"endTime":2187.721,"body":"trenches and done the work and come up?"},{"startTime":2188.201,"endTime":2188.711,"body":"I don't know."},{"startTime":2188.711,"endTime":2190.961,"body":"I've come across a few that yeah, sure."},{"startTime":2190.961,"endTime":2193.061,"body":"You'll get your"},{"startTime":2190.961,"endTime":2193.061,"body":"certification on the cheap."},{"startTime":2193.481,"endTime":2194.891,"body":"And it's the same certification."},{"startTime":2194.891,"endTime":2195.581,"body":"Not any less."},{"startTime":2195.611,"endTime":2198.341,"body":"It's just what are you"},{"startTime":2195.611,"endTime":2198.341,"body":"learning from these people?"},{"startTime":2198.851,"endTime":2199.151,"body":"Right."},{"startTime":2199.211,"endTime":2201.641,"body":"Other than just getting a piece of"},{"startTime":2199.211,"endTime":2201.641,"body":"paper, what are you really learning?"},{"startTime":2202.001,"endTime":2202.221,"body":"So."},{"startTime":2203.291,"endTime":2206.531,"body":"Agile coaches, scrum masters"},{"startTime":2203.291,"endTime":2206.531,"body":"product owners, get their"},{"startTime":2206.531,"endTime":2209.291,"body":"certs from such organizations."},{"startTime":2209.291,"endTime":2214.891,"body":"Usually one man shows and then say, well,"},{"startTime":2209.291,"endTime":2214.891,"body":"I'm now a certified so-and-so and it's"},{"startTime":2214.891,"endTime":2216.811,"body":"like, you really didn't pick up much."},{"startTime":2216.841,"endTime":2217.611,"body":"Yeah, yeah."},{"startTime":2218.101,"endTime":2219.331,"body":"Not a dogma for sure."},{"startTime":2219.481,"endTime":2219.751,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":2219.751,"endTime":2223.601,"body":"You know, it's funny that this stuff"},{"startTime":2219.751,"endTime":2223.601,"body":"kinda didn't come out in our certification"},{"startTime":2223.631,"endTime":2227.461,"body":"podcast where , we sat down and talked"},{"startTime":2223.631,"endTime":2227.461,"body":"about the certification industry, but"},{"startTime":2227.461,"endTime":2230.741,"body":"like, I, I didn't, or maybe I just"},{"startTime":2227.461,"endTime":2230.741,"body":"wasn't maybe I wasn't thinking about"},{"startTime":2230.741,"endTime":2231.881,"body":"it when we were talking to that."},{"startTime":2231.881,"endTime":2234.461,"body":"Cause I was just a man crushing"},{"startTime":2231.881,"endTime":2234.461,"body":"over Brent the whole time."},{"startTime":2236.141,"endTime":2240.311,"body":"I think about certifications like"},{"startTime":2236.141,"endTime":2240.311,"body":"this, like they're a, they're an"},{"startTime":2240.311,"endTime":2245.651,"body":"entry point and then depending on"},{"startTime":2240.311,"endTime":2245.651,"body":"the person giving the certification."},{"startTime":2246.391,"endTime":2248.011,"body":"I kind of think the advantage of that."},{"startTime":2248.071,"endTime":2252.661,"body":"I mean, plus like with the amount of"},{"startTime":2248.071,"endTime":2252.661,"body":"money you shell out for, you used to"},{"startTime":2252.991,"endTime":2255.331,"body":"like 2018 before, you know what I mean?"},{"startTime":2255.331,"endTime":2257.941,"body":"Not, not, not, not at pandemic."},{"startTime":2257.991,"endTime":2258.261,"body":"Sure."},{"startTime":2258.321,"endTime":2258.791,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":2259.071,"endTime":2264.031,"body":"Costs, before I kind of thing is like"},{"startTime":2259.071,"endTime":2264.031,"body":"with the money that you shell out for"},{"startTime":2264.031,"endTime":2270.251,"body":"it, it should be more like an entrance"},{"startTime":2264.031,"endTime":2270.251,"body":"into a community than anything else."},{"startTime":2270.251,"endTime":2276.071,"body":"There should be some sort of like"},{"startTime":2270.251,"endTime":2276.071,"body":"a mentor relationship or at least"},{"startTime":2276.071,"endTime":2279.581,"body":"a at least community relationship"},{"startTime":2279.921,"endTime":2284.151,"body":"I think of it as like Reddit, like"},{"startTime":2279.921,"endTime":2284.151,"body":"if I'm going to go on our agile on"},{"startTime":2284.151,"endTime":2288.081,"body":"Reddit and just ask random magic"},{"startTime":2284.151,"endTime":2288.081,"body":"questions, it should be that only"},{"startTime":2288.081,"endTime":2290.971,"body":"like all the scrum trainers should"},{"startTime":2288.081,"endTime":2290.971,"body":"be there, but , what am I paying for?"},{"startTime":2290.971,"endTime":2291.781,"body":"I should be paying for."},{"startTime":2292.801,"endTime":2295.801,"body":"Entrance into the exclusive community."},{"startTime":2296.311,"endTime":2297.421,"body":"That's what I should be paying for."},{"startTime":2297.421,"endTime":2300.781,"body":"And then the, the, the, the,"},{"startTime":2297.421,"endTime":2300.781,"body":"the, the certification, it should"},{"startTime":2300.781,"endTime":2304.411,"body":"just be the basic rules of the"},{"startTime":2300.781,"endTime":2304.411,"body":"community on top of everything else."},{"startTime":2304.411,"endTime":2306.851,"body":"It should be like don't come"},{"startTime":2304.411,"endTime":2306.851,"body":"into this community and ask"},{"startTime":2306.941,"endTime":2308.651,"body":"how to do a proper Gantt chart."},{"startTime":2309.111,"endTime":2310.641,"body":"You're going to get bounced"},{"startTime":2309.111,"endTime":2310.641,"body":"out of the community."},{"startTime":2310.641,"endTime":2311.721,"body":"They're going to be"},{"startTime":2310.641,"endTime":2311.721,"body":"like, that's ridiculous."},{"startTime":2311.721,"endTime":2313.551,"body":"Why we, we don't do Gantt charts here."},{"startTime":2313.611,"endTime":2313.851,"body":"Right."},{"startTime":2313.921,"endTime":2317.131,"body":"don't come into the community and"},{"startTime":2313.921,"endTime":2317.131,"body":"ask how I'm gonna make sure that I'm"},{"startTime":2317.131,"endTime":2321.761,"body":"getting full, full utilization out of"},{"startTime":2317.131,"endTime":2321.761,"body":"every one of my development resources."},{"startTime":2321.761,"endTime":2322.671,"body":"And that's ridiculous."},{"startTime":2322.671,"endTime":2325.861,"body":"That's not what we believe so if"},{"startTime":2322.671,"endTime":2325.861,"body":"it's going to be like that, but"},{"startTime":2325.861,"endTime":2328.261,"body":"it's not like that, it's not."},{"startTime":2328.261,"endTime":2331.471,"body":"So you're saying more like a journeyman"},{"startTime":2328.261,"endTime":2331.471,"body":"type of model, or maybe it'd be"},{"startTime":2331.481,"endTime":2332.941,"body":"like a trade school type of thing."},{"startTime":2332.941,"endTime":2333.151,"body":"Right."},{"startTime":2333.151,"endTime":2336.391,"body":"So, yeah, the community will"},{"startTime":2333.151,"endTime":2336.391,"body":"support you for a while, but"},{"startTime":2336.391,"endTime":2338.341,"body":"you're now immersed in with those."},{"startTime":2339.646,"endTime":2343.696,"body":"And I, and our experts and I've paid"},{"startTime":2339.646,"endTime":2343.696,"body":"and I've paid for my sponsorship."},{"startTime":2344.026,"endTime":2344.836,"body":"I paid for it."},{"startTime":2345.196,"endTime":2345.496,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":2345.526,"endTime":2349.076,"body":"So I wish that were the model, because"},{"startTime":2345.526,"endTime":2349.076,"body":"then you wouldn't have this issue where"},{"startTime":2349.076,"endTime":2353.566,"body":"people just pay a couple of hundred bucks"},{"startTime":2349.076,"endTime":2353.566,"body":"and self declare themselves this or that"},{"startTime":2353.746,"endTime":2355.236,"body":"enterprise, agile coach I've seen it."},{"startTime":2355.236,"endTime":2358.576,"body":"So I've seen people that go back"},{"startTime":2355.236,"endTime":2358.576,"body":"to back to back to back with all"},{"startTime":2358.576,"endTime":2361.336,"body":"these certs and the more you take"},{"startTime":2358.576,"endTime":2361.336,"body":"the cheaper by the dozen approach."},{"startTime":2361.366,"endTime":2361.606,"body":"Right."},{"startTime":2361.786,"endTime":2366.616,"body":"And suddenly they're now this super-duper"},{"startTime":2361.786,"endTime":2366.616,"body":"executive agile coach, whatever."},{"startTime":2366.916,"endTime":2370.276,"body":"And it's only been two, three months yeah."},{"startTime":2370.606,"endTime":2371.506,"body":"For the whole thing."},{"startTime":2372.046,"endTime":2372.406,"body":"Right."},{"startTime":2372.436,"endTime":2376.276,"body":"So I painted the organization"},{"startTime":2372.436,"endTime":2376.276,"body":"that hired them for that because"},{"startTime":2376.546,"endTime":2378.106,"body":"they're not going to be successful."},{"startTime":2378.106,"endTime":2380.326,"body":"I also pity the people cause"},{"startTime":2378.106,"endTime":2380.326,"body":"they'll get bounced out."},{"startTime":2381.406,"endTime":2381.796,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":2382.066,"endTime":2384.826,"body":"Or they'll float from"},{"startTime":2382.066,"endTime":2384.826,"body":"position to position."},{"startTime":2384.856,"endTime":2387.226,"body":"The kind of  bill drift."},{"startTime":2387.286,"endTime":2387.706,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":2388.006,"endTime":2389.026,"body":"let's close out what he's saying?"},{"startTime":2389.106,"endTime":2389.406,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":2389.406,"endTime":2389.916,"body":"I don't know."},{"startTime":2389.916,"endTime":2396.206,"body":"Like I he, on one hand he says I"},{"startTime":2389.916,"endTime":2396.206,"body":"are truly agile trainers, meaning"},{"startTime":2396.206,"endTime":2400.286,"body":"people that are agile trainers,"},{"startTime":2396.206,"endTime":2400.286,"body":"like they, ain't nobody out there."},{"startTime":2400.286,"endTime":2404.816,"body":"This agile trainer"},{"startTime":2400.286,"endTime":2404.816,"body":"training and agile agility."},{"startTime":2405.116,"endTime":2405.596,"body":"Oh yeah."},{"startTime":2405.596,"endTime":2407.186,"body":"I see what you're training"},{"startTime":2405.596,"endTime":2407.186,"body":"and agility there."},{"startTime":2407.186,"endTime":2408.716,"body":"Ain't nobody out there"},{"startTime":2407.186,"endTime":2408.716,"body":"training and agility."},{"startTime":2408.746,"endTime":2410.606,"body":"First of all, you corner the market."},{"startTime":2410.606,"endTime":2414.326,"body":"If you came up with something at training"},{"startTime":2410.606,"endTime":2414.326,"body":"Julie, anyway, anyway, let's go over that"},{"startTime":2415.196,"endTime":2420.926,"body":"he, he, he does miss a category here about"},{"startTime":2415.196,"endTime":2420.926,"body":"something like are truly enterprise agile"},{"startTime":2420.926,"endTime":2424.676,"body":"coaches, cause that's missing in here"},{"startTime":2420.926,"endTime":2424.676,"body":"because that's a different cut of agile."},{"startTime":2425.901,"endTime":2429.681,"body":"Agile coaches that are ready to"},{"startTime":2425.901,"endTime":2429.681,"body":"supervise other agile coaches are"},{"startTime":2429.681,"endTime":2437.071,"body":"different than trainers and are different"},{"startTime":2429.681,"endTime":2437.071,"body":"than people that can coach teams."},{"startTime":2437.371,"endTime":2440.101,"body":"Anyway, I know he's not really trying"},{"startTime":2437.371,"endTime":2440.101,"body":"to make solid points, but I don't"},{"startTime":2440.101,"endTime":2442.461,"body":"know why I'm trying to make solid"},{"startTime":2440.101,"endTime":2442.461,"body":"points at this point in the podcast"},{"startTime":2442.681,"endTime":2446.871,"body":"he says 3% of agile coaches have technical"},{"startTime":2442.681,"endTime":2446.871,"body":"backgrounds that allow them to speak about"},{"startTime":2446.871,"endTime":2450.891,"body":"technical issues, such as software design"},{"startTime":2446.871,"endTime":2450.891,"body":"and dev ops from real experience, they"},{"startTime":2450.891,"endTime":2453.501,"body":"dismiss the other 97% is incompetent."},{"startTime":2453.771,"endTime":2454.911,"body":"He was going well until then."},{"startTime":2455.001,"endTime":2457.851,"body":"And then the other 97% that they"},{"startTime":2455.001,"endTime":2457.851,"body":"are dismissing as a comment."},{"startTime":2457.851,"endTime":2461.331,"body":"It looks at the technical"},{"startTime":2457.851,"endTime":2461.331,"body":"coaches with suspicion after all."},{"startTime":2461.331,"endTime":2461.991,"body":"Aren't they?"},{"startTime":2462.021,"endTime":2464.841,"body":"Just those weird software people."},{"startTime":2465.111,"endTime":2469.381,"body":"we're stopping here is"},{"startTime":2465.111,"endTime":2469.381,"body":"he showing bias in this?"},{"startTime":2469.391,"endTime":2473.381,"body":"I didn't look at the articles, author"},{"startTime":2469.391,"endTime":2473.381,"body":"and his background at all in any way."},{"startTime":2474.236,"endTime":2475.946,"body":"But I would expect"},{"startTime":2474.236,"endTime":2475.946,"body":"these showing bias here."},{"startTime":2475.946,"endTime":2477.356,"body":"It'd be like, I'm awesome."},{"startTime":2477.776,"endTime":2479.516,"body":"Absolutely showing bias here."},{"startTime":2479.516,"endTime":2479.846,"body":"Right."},{"startTime":2480.116,"endTime":2484.286,"body":"He's calling all of those technical"},{"startTime":2480.116,"endTime":2484.286,"body":"people pointing heads, essentially."},{"startTime":2484.406,"endTime":2484.796,"body":"Right."},{"startTime":2485.576,"endTime":2489.776,"body":"And he's saying that these agile"},{"startTime":2485.576,"endTime":2489.776,"body":"coaches that are technical themselves"},{"startTime":2490.046,"endTime":2493.646,"body":"are no different than those technocrats"},{"startTime":2490.046,"endTime":2493.646,"body":"are these, these developers."},{"startTime":2493.676,"endTime":2493.796,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":2493.886,"endTime":2494.576,"body":"But let me look."},{"startTime":2494.576,"endTime":2494.966,"body":"All right."},{"startTime":2494.966,"endTime":2498.646,"body":"So you, you, you take"},{"startTime":2494.966,"endTime":2498.646,"body":"his side no, I'm sorry."},{"startTime":2498.646,"endTime":2499.426,"body":"I'll take his side."},{"startTime":2499.426,"endTime":2501.326,"body":"Cause this is I'll take his side."},{"startTime":2501.326,"endTime":2507.806,"body":"Cause this guy, I don't know why"},{"startTime":2501.326,"endTime":2507.806,"body":"I'm taking all the, I, I, I probably"},{"startTime":2507.806,"endTime":2511.076,"body":"shouldn't but I'll take his side and"},{"startTime":2507.806,"endTime":2511.076,"body":"you take the side of normal people."},{"startTime":2511.916,"endTime":2513.116,"body":"Yeah, yeah, yeah."},{"startTime":2513.596,"endTime":2514.646,"body":"Same people."},{"startTime":2515.006,"endTime":2518.006,"body":"what he's saying here is like,"},{"startTime":2515.006,"endTime":2518.006,"body":"you need like the people with"},{"startTime":2518.006,"endTime":2518.996,"body":"the technical background."},{"startTime":2519.116,"endTime":2521.996,"body":"He's ease inferring."},{"startTime":2522.476,"endTime":2523.276,"body":"They're better than."},{"startTime":2524.291,"endTime":2527.171,"body":"To help people do the job"},{"startTime":2524.291,"endTime":2527.171,"body":"because they've done the job."},{"startTime":2527.831,"endTime":2528.881,"body":"That's what he's inferring."},{"startTime":2529.121,"endTime":2533.071,"body":"I believe anyway, whatever and"},{"startTime":2529.121,"endTime":2533.071,"body":"people who've never done the job."},{"startTime":2533.071,"endTime":2536.341,"body":"Like people ran out and got"},{"startTime":2533.071,"endTime":2536.341,"body":"a certification or people who"},{"startTime":2536.341,"endTime":2538.531,"body":"can talk the talk that never"},{"startTime":2536.341,"endTime":2538.531,"body":"actually have done it before."},{"startTime":2538.531,"endTime":2542.281,"body":"Like then the managerial type of"},{"startTime":2538.531,"endTime":2542.281,"body":"class of people, he's saying like,"},{"startTime":2542.401,"endTime":2544.711,"body":"there's a reason you can't cut"},{"startTime":2542.401,"endTime":2544.711,"body":"it because he never done the job."},{"startTime":2544.741,"endTime":2546.001,"body":"That's what he's trying to back up."},{"startTime":2546.451,"endTime":2548.251,"body":"So we go with that line of reasoning."},{"startTime":2548.341,"endTime":2549.931,"body":"I would say, I would"},{"startTime":2548.341,"endTime":2549.931,"body":"have to agree with that."},{"startTime":2549.931,"endTime":2553.571,"body":"Right but then I'd say the other"},{"startTime":2549.931,"endTime":2553.571,"body":"side of it, which is he's right."},{"startTime":2553.601,"endTime":2558.461,"body":"When it comes to working with teams,"},{"startTime":2553.601,"endTime":2558.461,"body":"if you've been there, worked in"},{"startTime":2558.671,"endTime":2561.611,"body":"technology and you're working with your"},{"startTime":2558.671,"endTime":2561.611,"body":"teams, you understand their language,"},{"startTime":2561.881,"endTime":2565.331,"body":"perhaps some of the challenges they're"},{"startTime":2561.881,"endTime":2565.331,"body":"facing, but that's where it stops."},{"startTime":2565.591,"endTime":2568.921,"body":"Say at the enterprise level, you're"},{"startTime":2565.591,"endTime":2568.921,"body":"working with other stakeholders,"},{"startTime":2569.371,"endTime":2570.451,"body":"there's no training for that."},{"startTime":2570.541,"endTime":2572.701,"body":"No, we wouldn't have done that before."},{"startTime":2572.701,"endTime":2577.171,"body":"And if you have the newer already a"},{"startTime":2572.701,"endTime":2577.171,"body":"coach at that, and I, I kinda, I kinda"},{"startTime":2577.181,"endTime":2581.971,"body":"would think also, What he's talking"},{"startTime":2577.181,"endTime":2581.971,"body":"about kind of stops at the team level."},{"startTime":2582.001,"endTime":2582.421,"body":"Yes."},{"startTime":2583.021,"endTime":2586.951,"body":"it might transfer a bit when you're"},{"startTime":2583.021,"endTime":2586.951,"body":"at like a scale level where you're"},{"startTime":2587.011,"endTime":2589.081,"body":"just interacting with technical teams."},{"startTime":2589.161,"endTime":2592.581,"body":"I in a product position I've been in a"},{"startTime":2589.161,"endTime":2592.581,"body":"skilled product position before I think"},{"startTime":2592.581,"endTime":2597.791,"body":"about like, if I'm a product owner on"},{"startTime":2592.581,"endTime":2597.791,"body":"one team and I've got a like a scaled"},{"startTime":2598.121,"endTime":2601.201,"body":"product owner, like chief product owner"},{"startTime":2598.121,"endTime":2601.201,"body":"or whatever, I I'm chief product owner."},{"startTime":2601.211,"endTime":2604.601,"body":"I have several teams that are"},{"startTime":2601.211,"endTime":2604.601,"body":"implementing, or maybe like a group"},{"startTime":2604.631,"endTime":2608.621,"body":"product owner, because there is that"},{"startTime":2604.631,"endTime":2608.621,"body":"to the, there's a, we're all under one"},{"startTime":2608.621,"endTime":2612.191,"body":"application, but the different product"},{"startTime":2608.621,"endTime":2612.191,"body":"owners have different subsets or pieces"},{"startTime":2612.191,"endTime":2614.741,"body":"of the application that could be as well."},{"startTime":2615.021,"endTime":2617.781,"body":"But at some point you're going to"},{"startTime":2615.021,"endTime":2617.781,"body":"scale up to a product owner but at"},{"startTime":2617.781,"endTime":2622.401,"body":"some point you climb the ladder in the"},{"startTime":2617.781,"endTime":2622.401,"body":"product owner role to get to a point"},{"startTime":2622.401,"endTime":2626.841,"body":"where now you're not dealing with"},{"startTime":2622.401,"endTime":2626.841,"body":"the product owners anymore, you're"},{"startTime":2626.871,"endTime":2628.761,"body":"driving to other parts of the business."},{"startTime":2628.761,"endTime":2633.681,"body":"You drive in the interface with sales,"},{"startTime":2628.761,"endTime":2633.681,"body":"you're driving an interface with a major"},{"startTime":2633.711,"endTime":2638.451,"body":"customer stakeholders and the vendors"},{"startTime":2633.711,"endTime":2638.451,"body":"and account managers and, business"},{"startTime":2638.451,"endTime":2643.221,"body":"development people or executives"},{"startTime":2638.451,"endTime":2643.221,"body":"or marketing revenue people and now"},{"startTime":2643.221,"endTime":2650.221,"body":"you're taking in the viewpoints and"},{"startTime":2643.221,"endTime":2650.221,"body":"perspectives of non product people."},{"startTime":2650.271,"endTime":2653.211,"body":"I get where he saying, and"},{"startTime":2650.271,"endTime":2653.211,"body":"I get what you're saying."},{"startTime":2653.211,"endTime":2657.081,"body":"And when I put the two together, like"},{"startTime":2653.211,"endTime":2657.081,"body":"I reach an apex in the organization."},{"startTime":2657.816,"endTime":2660.936,"body":"That what he's saying"},{"startTime":2657.816,"endTime":2660.936,"body":"no longer flies anymore."},{"startTime":2660.936,"endTime":2664.506,"body":"Your technical background only takes"},{"startTime":2660.936,"endTime":2664.506,"body":"you up so far in the organization."},{"startTime":2665.376,"endTime":2665.826,"body":"I agree."},{"startTime":2665.826,"endTime":2668.886,"body":"And that's, that's also, you mentioned"},{"startTime":2665.826,"endTime":2668.886,"body":"that from the perspective of the"},{"startTime":2668.886,"endTime":2671.826,"body":"product owner, but I think that"},{"startTime":2668.886,"endTime":2671.826,"body":"applies, it applies from the perspective"},{"startTime":2671.826,"endTime":2673.446,"body":"of an agile coach also, right."},{"startTime":2673.446,"endTime":2676.956,"body":"You soon run out of that technical stuff"},{"startTime":2673.446,"endTime":2676.956,"body":"and then you're dealing with people."},{"startTime":2677.106,"endTime":2680.946,"body":"And at that point, the only thing that's"},{"startTime":2677.106,"endTime":2680.946,"body":"going to help you is your people skills"},{"startTime":2681.216,"endTime":2685.086,"body":"I'll give you a very real example of"},{"startTime":2681.216,"endTime":2685.086,"body":"something that I've dealt with more"},{"startTime":2685.086,"endTime":2691.196,"body":"than once as an agile coach in the"},{"startTime":2685.086,"endTime":2691.196,"body":"organization, which is the topic of"},{"startTime":2691.226,"endTime":2696.496,"body":"capitalizing software, because of the"},{"startTime":2691.226,"endTime":2696.496,"body":"topic of capitalizing software, it usually"},{"startTime":2696.496,"endTime":2700.826,"body":"comes down from an executive level because"},{"startTime":2696.496,"endTime":2700.826,"body":"your finances fighting to do something"},{"startTime":2700.946,"endTime":2706.626,"body":"and now your pushing back against, I"},{"startTime":2700.946,"endTime":2706.626,"body":"dunno, probably the executive of your"},{"startTime":2706.626,"endTime":2711.691,"body":"organism I'm talking about like the"},{"startTime":2706.626,"endTime":2711.691,"body":"chief executive or the CFO level of your"},{"startTime":2711.691,"endTime":2716.261,"body":"organization, the chief finance person in"},{"startTime":2711.691,"endTime":2716.261,"body":"your organization, or the chief executive"},{"startTime":2716.261,"endTime":2721.331,"body":"in your organization saying, Hey, you need"},{"startTime":2716.261,"endTime":2721.331,"body":"to reshape your budgetary practices to"},{"startTime":2721.331,"endTime":2725.931,"body":"fall in line with this strategy basically."},{"startTime":2726.201,"endTime":2729.891,"body":"Having a technical background won't"},{"startTime":2726.201,"endTime":2729.891,"body":"help you at all in this request."},{"startTime":2730.071,"endTime":2733.041,"body":"And I completely could see a"},{"startTime":2730.071,"endTime":2733.041,"body":"development department and be like,"},{"startTime":2733.071,"endTime":2736.421,"body":"oh, agile coach scrum master, whatever."},{"startTime":2736.521,"endTime":2738.381,"body":"You deal with impediments,"},{"startTime":2736.521,"endTime":2738.381,"body":"the organization."},{"startTime":2738.861,"endTime":2740.571,"body":"I don't want to develop"},{"startTime":2738.861,"endTime":2740.571,"body":"her to deal with this."},{"startTime":2740.811,"endTime":2741.501,"body":"You handle it."},{"startTime":2743.781,"endTime":2745.461,"body":"I mean what are you going to do?"},{"startTime":2745.461,"endTime":2747.531,"body":"What, like a technical background,"},{"startTime":2745.461,"endTime":2747.531,"body":"doesn't help you at that point."},{"startTime":2748.416,"endTime":2748.686,"body":"No."},{"startTime":2748.686,"endTime":2751.636,"body":"I mean, you could say, well, maybe"},{"startTime":2748.686,"endTime":2751.636,"body":"if you're technical, you have"},{"startTime":2751.636,"endTime":2754.386,"body":"an analytical mindset that might"},{"startTime":2751.636,"endTime":2754.386,"body":"help you, but that's a stretch."},{"startTime":2754.706,"endTime":2756.366,"body":"It's not your technical background."},{"startTime":2756.366,"endTime":2757.566,"body":"That's helping you at that point."},{"startTime":2757.626,"endTime":2758.406,"body":"But I agree with that."},{"startTime":2758.586,"endTime":2761.046,"body":"But like, people will be like,"},{"startTime":2758.586,"endTime":2761.046,"body":"oh Brian, but that's fine."},{"startTime":2761.046,"endTime":2765.326,"body":"And it's like, oh, that's, that's"},{"startTime":2761.046,"endTime":2765.326,"body":"a normal team member, even a scrum"},{"startTime":2765.326,"endTime":2767.936,"body":"master or whatever member of team"},{"startTime":2765.326,"endTime":2767.936,"body":"will have to deal with finances."},{"startTime":2767.936,"endTime":2769.076,"body":"It should be handled by somebody else."},{"startTime":2769.286,"endTime":2769.706,"body":"Sure."},{"startTime":2769.706,"endTime":2769.976,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":2769.976,"endTime":2770.336,"body":"It could be."},{"startTime":2770.336,"endTime":2770.846,"body":"Yeah, you're right."},{"startTime":2770.926,"endTime":2777.386,"body":"But how many other situations like"},{"startTime":2770.926,"endTime":2777.386,"body":"that will crop up dealing with vendors"},{"startTime":2777.686,"endTime":2779.306,"body":"who's got to deal with vendors."},{"startTime":2779.516,"endTime":2785.606,"body":"Who's got to go vet, Hey we need a new"},{"startTime":2779.516,"endTime":2785.606,"body":"tool we needed a new design tool to use."},{"startTime":2785.786,"endTime":2788.756,"body":"We've got to go buy a new tool, go vet."},{"startTime":2788.866,"endTime":2791.406,"body":"I did this when I was a QA"},{"startTime":2788.866,"endTime":2791.406,"body":"manager for automation frameworks."},{"startTime":2791.406,"endTime":2794.016,"body":"Hey, should we create our own."},{"startTime":2794.076,"endTime":2795.596,"body":"I'm a big fan of saying roll our own."},{"startTime":2795.606,"endTime":2800.276,"body":"Should we create our own automation"},{"startTime":2795.606,"endTime":2800.276,"body":"framework and learn from the ground up?"},{"startTime":2800.336,"endTime":2804.016,"body":"Or should we try to buy an"},{"startTime":2800.336,"endTime":2804.016,"body":"out of the box framework?"},{"startTime":2804.016,"endTime":2808.676,"body":"Or should we try to offshore this"},{"startTime":2804.016,"endTime":2808.676,"body":"work, like go figure out cost benefit"},{"startTime":2809.426,"endTime":2810.886,"body":"and make some recommendations."},{"startTime":2810.886,"endTime":2815.446,"body":"I was lucky cause I was in an organization"},{"startTime":2810.886,"endTime":2815.446,"body":"where the leadership of the organization"},{"startTime":2815.446,"endTime":2821.536,"body":"would w they would demand three"},{"startTime":2815.446,"endTime":2821.536,"body":"well-thought out options before they"},{"startTime":2821.536,"endTime":2823.346,"body":"would even consider spending money."},{"startTime":2823.596,"endTime":2827.091,"body":"So you actually would have to do"},{"startTime":2823.596,"endTime":2827.091,"body":"some good you may have to obtain"},{"startTime":2827.091,"endTime":2828.201,"body":"beds and all of that stuff."},{"startTime":2828.771,"endTime":2829.191,"body":"Exactly."},{"startTime":2829.461,"endTime":2830.991,"body":"How's the technical background guy."},{"startTime":2831.171,"endTime":2832.491,"body":"It's not, it's not going to help you out."},{"startTime":2832.761,"endTime":2836.481,"body":"I agree with that, but that is definitely"},{"startTime":2832.761,"endTime":2836.481,"body":"in the wheelhouse of a product owner"},{"startTime":2836.631,"endTime":2838.821,"body":"or an agile coach at that level."},{"startTime":2838.851,"endTime":2839.211,"body":"Right."},{"startTime":2839.511,"endTime":2842.241,"body":"So yes, you as soon run out"},{"startTime":2839.511,"endTime":2842.241,"body":"of the technology piece that"},{"startTime":2842.241,"endTime":2843.141,"body":"he's talking about then."},{"startTime":2843.141,"endTime":2844.041,"body":"Yeah, yeah, yeah."},{"startTime":2844.041,"endTime":2847.531,"body":"So I think he's he's, he's being"},{"startTime":2844.041,"endTime":2847.531,"body":"a bit pedantic, but also a bit"},{"startTime":2847.531,"endTime":2852.641,"body":"shortsighted in his examples but you"},{"startTime":2847.531,"endTime":2852.641,"body":"know, again his level of inflammation"},{"startTime":2852.641,"endTime":2854.471,"body":"on the internet talk to you."},{"startTime":2855.761,"endTime":2857.231,"body":"Absolutely nailed it on that, right?"},{"startTime":2857.321,"endTime":2857.561,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":2858.371,"endTime":2858.611,"body":"Okay."},{"startTime":2858.611,"endTime":2864.671,"body":"He finishes by saying a 1% or less of"},{"startTime":2858.611,"endTime":2864.671,"body":"agile coaches have the relevant technical"},{"startTime":2864.671,"endTime":2869.171,"body":"business and executive backgrounds to"},{"startTime":2864.671,"endTime":2869.171,"body":"allow them to influence C-level executives"},{"startTime":2869.171,"endTime":2873.671,"body":"and most recruiters hiring managers or"},{"startTime":2869.171,"endTime":2873.671,"body":"executives have no idea how to find a"},{"startTime":2873.671,"endTime":2875.561,"body":"professional with relevant experience."},{"startTime":2875.651,"endTime":2880.481,"body":"Instead they're drowned by resumes"},{"startTime":2875.651,"endTime":2880.481,"body":"from Bush tail fresh certified coaches"},{"startTime":2880.481,"endTime":2881.981,"body":"with one year experience or less."},{"startTime":2882.551,"endTime":2884.291,"body":"Well, there's two things there, right?"},{"startTime":2884.531,"endTime":2889.841,"body":"So 1% of, or less of agile coaches"},{"startTime":2884.531,"endTime":2889.841,"body":"have the relevant technical business"},{"startTime":2889.841,"endTime":2894.161,"body":"and executive backgrounds, w I'm not"},{"startTime":2889.841,"endTime":2894.161,"body":"surprised to a lot to allow them to"},{"startTime":2894.161,"endTime":2895.901,"body":"influence see loud influency level."},{"startTime":2895.901,"endTime":2896.291,"body":"Exactly."},{"startTime":2896.311,"endTime":2899.891,"body":"But those, those three relevant"},{"startTime":2896.311,"endTime":2899.891,"body":"technical business and executive"},{"startTime":2899.891,"endTime":2902.861,"body":"backgrounds, that means they"},{"startTime":2899.891,"endTime":2902.861,"body":"must've been around for some time."},{"startTime":2903.536,"endTime":2904.166,"body":"Together."},{"startTime":2904.216,"endTime":2907.336,"body":"Those kinds of backgrounds that"},{"startTime":2904.216,"endTime":2907.336,"body":"goes into your second point."},{"startTime":2907.456,"endTime":2907.816,"body":"Okay."},{"startTime":2908.226,"endTime":2909.346,"body":"Hang on, hang on."},{"startTime":2909.346,"endTime":2910.156,"body":"His second way here."},{"startTime":2910.166,"endTime":2913.366,"body":"0% of agile coaches would turn"},{"startTime":2910.166,"endTime":2913.366,"body":"down a job because they feel"},{"startTime":2913.366,"endTime":2914.386,"body":"they're not qualified for it."},{"startTime":2914.386,"endTime":2916.306,"body":"Like, let let's, let's knock that out."},{"startTime":2917.026,"endTime":2917.366,"body":"I know."},{"startTime":2917.366,"endTime":2917.866,"body":"I know."},{"startTime":2917.986,"endTime":2918.256,"body":"I know."},{"startTime":2918.256,"endTime":2920.086,"body":"But let, let's knock that"},{"startTime":2918.256,"endTime":2920.086,"body":"out before we get into this."},{"startTime":2920.086,"endTime":2921.526,"body":"Cause I feel they're one in the same."},{"startTime":2921.526,"endTime":2922.456,"body":"I don't feel they're different."},{"startTime":2922.826,"endTime":2923.636,"body":"1% or less."},{"startTime":2923.636,"endTime":2929.816,"body":"He's saying almost no, he's saying almost"},{"startTime":2923.636,"endTime":2929.816,"body":"no agile coaches have the proper relevant"},{"startTime":2930.356,"endTime":2933.636,"body":"experience to coach seal executives."},{"startTime":2933.666,"endTime":2934.326,"body":"That's what he's saying."},{"startTime":2934.506,"endTime":2935.406,"body":"Almost none."},{"startTime":2935.826,"endTime":2940.956,"body":"And he's saying no, agile coach would"},{"startTime":2935.826,"endTime":2940.956,"body":"turn down a job that even though they"},{"startTime":2940.956,"endTime":2942.156,"body":"don't think they're qualified for it."},{"startTime":2943.266,"endTime":2943.656,"body":"Okay."},{"startTime":2943.926,"endTime":2945.576,"body":"So they're, they're"},{"startTime":2943.926,"endTime":2945.576,"body":"kind of the same to me."},{"startTime":2946.536,"endTime":2948.696,"body":"And then he also makes a remark that says."},{"startTime":2949.596,"endTime":2952.626,"body":"Basically recruiters, hiring managers,"},{"startTime":2949.596,"endTime":2952.626,"body":"people that are hiring for positions,"},{"startTime":2952.656,"endTime":2955.706,"body":"they don't know  how to qualify people."},{"startTime":2955.916,"endTime":2956.216,"body":"Right."},{"startTime":2956.436,"endTime":2960.796,"body":"It's nice for other people to be attacking"},{"startTime":2956.436,"endTime":2960.796,"body":"HR people other than us like that."},{"startTime":2961.366,"endTime":2962.776,"body":"It's that's kinda nice like that."},{"startTime":2963.136,"endTime":2964.486,"body":"I've got to give him that point though."},{"startTime":2964.486,"endTime":2964.786,"body":"Right?"},{"startTime":2965.686,"endTime":2969.666,"body":"Recruiters don't have a clue"},{"startTime":2965.686,"endTime":2969.666,"body":"sometimes just painting everything."},{"startTime":2969.676,"endTime":2971.746,"body":"That's such a big, wide broad brush."},{"startTime":2972.046,"endTime":2976.816,"body":"I mean, if we're going to go after the"},{"startTime":2972.046,"endTime":2976.816,"body":"profession of recruiting I mean, not like,"},{"startTime":2979.346,"endTime":2982.606,"body":"I mean, they do that for agile coaches,"},{"startTime":2979.346,"endTime":2982.606,"body":"but I mean like what other jobs they"},{"startTime":2982.606,"endTime":2986.896,"body":"do that like the point of a recruiter,"},{"startTime":2982.606,"endTime":2986.896,"body":"especially a head hunter is to position"},{"startTime":2986.896,"endTime":2988.966,"body":"your candidate as the best that you can."},{"startTime":2989.731,"endTime":2990.691,"body":"To get the job."},{"startTime":2990.911,"endTime":2994.471,"body":"So at a certain point, I I'm kind of"},{"startTime":2990.911,"endTime":2994.471,"body":"discounting everything he's saying,"},{"startTime":2994.711,"endTime":3000.111,"body":"if he's saying, if he's making"},{"startTime":2994.711,"endTime":3000.111,"body":"commentary about, the agile coaching"},{"startTime":3000.111,"endTime":3005.271,"body":"profession is kinda so wild and all"},{"startTime":3000.111,"endTime":3005.271,"body":"over the place that people don't"},{"startTime":3005.271,"endTime":3006.531,"body":"really know what they're looking at."},{"startTime":3006.591,"endTime":3010.221,"body":"When they look at candidates, that's"},{"startTime":3006.591,"endTime":3010.221,"body":"something that I can get behind and we"},{"startTime":3010.221,"endTime":3015.411,"body":"can talk about that's true, because I feel"},{"startTime":3010.221,"endTime":3015.411,"body":"that like, like strap yourself in, because"},{"startTime":3015.411,"endTime":3017.001,"body":"you feel that way about agile coaching."},{"startTime":3017.001,"endTime":3021.291,"body":"Let me tell you about product"},{"startTime":3017.001,"endTime":3021.291,"body":"managers oh my goodness."},{"startTime":3021.531,"endTime":3023.201,"body":"For sure I agree with that."},{"startTime":3023.261,"endTime":3025.871,"body":"And you agree with that but he's"},{"startTime":3023.261,"endTime":3025.871,"body":"saying everyone is like up to the"},{"startTime":3025.871,"endTime":3028.931,"body":"job and we'll sign up for it, even"},{"startTime":3025.871,"endTime":3028.931,"body":"if they don't have the skill for it."},{"startTime":3028.931,"endTime":3031.691,"body":"And then he brings it back to say,"},{"startTime":3028.931,"endTime":3031.691,"body":"1% of agile coaches actually have"},{"startTime":3031.691,"endTime":3033.311,"body":"the skill to coach to the sea level."},{"startTime":3033.441,"endTime":3036.231,"body":"This is one of the things they added"},{"startTime":3033.441,"endTime":3036.231,"body":"to the scrum guide was you're supposed"},{"startTime":3036.231,"endTime":3037.611,"body":"to be coaching up in the organization."},{"startTime":3037.611,"endTime":3043.771,"body":"So theoretically, if you're at a small"},{"startTime":3037.611,"endTime":3043.771,"body":"company, 40 people and you have access"},{"startTime":3043.951,"endTime":3049.601,"body":"to the C level, even if it's your first"},{"startTime":3043.951,"endTime":3049.601,"body":"job as a scrum master, you should be"},{"startTime":3049.601,"endTime":3055.271,"body":"looking for opportunities to connect"},{"startTime":3049.601,"endTime":3055.271,"body":"with your C-level, figure out what they"},{"startTime":3055.331,"endTime":3058.961,"body":"want, figure out what your team's doing"},{"startTime":3055.331,"endTime":3058.961,"body":"and figure out how to connect the two."},{"startTime":3059.111,"endTime":3062.681,"body":"If you need some mentorship and some"},{"startTime":3059.111,"endTime":3062.681,"body":"coaching to figure out how to do that."},{"startTime":3062.891,"endTime":3067.241,"body":"That's one thing, should you not even try?"},{"startTime":3067.241,"endTime":3069.101,"body":"I'm not sure what point"},{"startTime":3067.241,"endTime":3069.101,"body":"he's trying to make here."},{"startTime":3069.311,"endTime":3072.911,"body":"He's not sure what he's"},{"startTime":3069.311,"endTime":3072.911,"body":"done, but you're right."},{"startTime":3073.151,"endTime":3077.681,"body":"So with with this right, 1% of"},{"startTime":3073.151,"endTime":3077.681,"body":"less, and his point is almost none."},{"startTime":3078.611,"endTime":3080.801,"body":"You can challenge that there"},{"startTime":3078.611,"endTime":3080.801,"body":"are some agile coaches that have"},{"startTime":3080.801,"endTime":3084.241,"body":"been around and I don't know, I"},{"startTime":3080.801,"endTime":3084.241,"body":"couldn't tell you the percentage."},{"startTime":3084.241,"endTime":3084.481,"body":"Right."},{"startTime":3084.481,"endTime":3085.981,"body":"But I don't think it's almost none."},{"startTime":3085.981,"endTime":3092.221,"body":"I think it's now, now we've been"},{"startTime":3085.981,"endTime":3092.221,"body":"working in an agile way for a lot"},{"startTime":3092.221,"endTime":3094.651,"body":"longer than we had five years ago."},{"startTime":3094.981,"endTime":3097.141,"body":"I think there's, there are"},{"startTime":3094.981,"endTime":3097.141,"body":"coaches around that can actually"},{"startTime":3097.141,"endTime":3099.121,"body":"influence the C-level staff."},{"startTime":3099.391,"endTime":3103.021,"body":"I think there's, there's some"},{"startTime":3099.391,"endTime":3103.021,"body":"traction right toward that."},{"startTime":3103.261,"endTime":3106.351,"body":"So I don't think it's 1% and it doesn't"},{"startTime":3103.261,"endTime":3106.351,"body":"really matter what percent it is."},{"startTime":3106.561,"endTime":3111.641,"body":"His point here is that people will"},{"startTime":3106.561,"endTime":3111.641,"body":"just jump at the jobs, even though"},{"startTime":3111.641,"endTime":3112.811,"body":"they're not qualified for it."},{"startTime":3112.871,"endTime":3113.051,"body":"Right."},{"startTime":3113.111,"endTime":3115.061,"body":"And recruiters don't know how to match."},{"startTime":3115.361,"endTime":3115.661,"body":"Right."},{"startTime":3115.691,"endTime":3116.591,"body":"That's what I'm seeing here."},{"startTime":3116.951,"endTime":3119.021,"body":"So on the recruiter side."},{"startTime":3119.261,"endTime":3119.471,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":3119.501,"endTime":3123.071,"body":"I mean, I couldn't tell you how many"},{"startTime":3119.501,"endTime":3123.071,"body":"times a week people contact me and go,"},{"startTime":3123.071,"endTime":3124.631,"body":"I have an entry level position for you."},{"startTime":3124.631,"endTime":3126.371,"body":"They're only looking for"},{"startTime":3124.631,"endTime":3126.371,"body":"two years experience."},{"startTime":3127.121,"endTime":3128.651,"body":"Did you check my profile for us?"},{"startTime":3129.081,"endTime":3130.161,"body":"So I'm sure that."},{"startTime":3131.046,"endTime":3132.006,"body":"Prevalent out there."},{"startTime":3132.036,"endTime":3135.556,"body":"They just want to get somebody"},{"startTime":3132.036,"endTime":3135.556,"body":"in bums in seats, right?"},{"startTime":3135.556,"endTime":3135.736,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":3135.976,"endTime":3137.386,"body":"So, yes, he's got that point."},{"startTime":3137.446,"endTime":3137.926,"body":"Oh, healed."},{"startTime":3137.926,"endTime":3143.836,"body":"That what I won't agree with is"},{"startTime":3137.926,"endTime":3143.836,"body":"that people will grab any job"},{"startTime":3143.866,"endTime":3145.276,"body":"that they're not qualified for."},{"startTime":3145.606,"endTime":3147.976,"body":"I don't think you'll do that"},{"startTime":3145.606,"endTime":3147.976,"body":"because you are doing your career."},{"startTime":3148.006,"endTime":3151.556,"body":"No good doing we don't need"},{"startTime":3148.006,"endTime":3151.556,"body":"to theorize on this one."},{"startTime":3151.556,"endTime":3153.056,"body":"There is a study out there."},{"startTime":3153.126,"endTime":3154.866,"body":"I don't remember what"},{"startTime":3153.126,"endTime":3154.866,"body":"school did the study."},{"startTime":3154.866,"endTime":3158.436,"body":"There's a study out there that says"},{"startTime":3154.866,"endTime":3158.436,"body":"that a higher percentage of men"},{"startTime":3158.436,"endTime":3162.896,"body":"will apply for positions they're"},{"startTime":3158.436,"endTime":3162.896,"body":"not qualified for then women."},{"startTime":3162.946,"endTime":3167.606,"body":"There is a percentage of like"},{"startTime":3162.946,"endTime":3167.606,"body":"women need to qualify for 90%."},{"startTime":3167.636,"endTime":3171.026,"body":"I think it's 90% of the"},{"startTime":3167.636,"endTime":3171.026,"body":"items in the job description."},{"startTime":3171.176,"endTime":3176.906,"body":"Whereas men will only need to qualify"},{"startTime":3171.176,"endTime":3176.906,"body":"for like 60% or 40% or something really"},{"startTime":3176.906,"endTime":3181.066,"body":"low like that and that's kinda why, when"},{"startTime":3176.906,"endTime":3181.066,"body":"you put job descriptions up, you should"},{"startTime":3181.066,"endTime":3185.786,"body":"really only think about like the bare"},{"startTime":3181.066,"endTime":3185.786,"body":"bones of what you need because you could"},{"startTime":3185.786,"endTime":3190.946,"body":"be shooting yourself in the foot as far as"},{"startTime":3185.786,"endTime":3190.946,"body":"diversity goes by posting a shopping list"},{"startTime":3190.946,"endTime":3194.136,"body":"of like, oh, we'd like to have this and"},{"startTime":3190.946,"endTime":3194.136,"body":"we'd like to have this that kind of stuff."},{"startTime":3194.736,"endTime":3194.976,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":3194.976,"endTime":3196.806,"body":"I never thought about it"},{"startTime":3194.976,"endTime":3196.806,"body":"from that perspective."},{"startTime":3196.836,"endTime":3200.886,"body":"Yeah know, it's a real, like I should,"},{"startTime":3196.836,"endTime":3200.886,"body":"I know I have the study saved somewhere."},{"startTime":3200.886,"endTime":3205.036,"body":"I should find it and link it in the"},{"startTime":3200.886,"endTime":3205.036,"body":"show notes because I want to say it"},{"startTime":3205.036,"endTime":3206.596,"body":"was, it's a recent study as well."},{"startTime":3206.596,"endTime":3211.776,"body":"It's not an, a very old study but"},{"startTime":3206.596,"endTime":3211.776,"body":"obviously he's not like if you want,"},{"startTime":3212.316,"endTime":3218.186,"body":"if you want, if he was talking about,"},{"startTime":3212.316,"endTime":3218.186,"body":"relevant topics and actual, real topics"},{"startTime":3218.186,"endTime":3223.516,"body":"like this, rather than just trying to"},{"startTime":3218.186,"endTime":3223.516,"body":"flame some fan some flames on LinkedIn"},{"startTime":3223.546,"endTime":3227.126,"body":"to get attention that would be one"},{"startTime":3223.546,"endTime":3227.126,"body":"thing, but, I dunno, I, I sorta wanna"},{"startTime":3227.136,"endTime":3229.106,"body":"defend his position on this one."},{"startTime":3229.166,"endTime":3234.666,"body":"I sorta don't know if I care that much"},{"startTime":3229.166,"endTime":3234.666,"body":"anymore like to, to defend his position"},{"startTime":3234.666,"endTime":3238.926,"body":"here the people that, again, I go back"},{"startTime":3234.666,"endTime":3238.926,"body":"to what I said early in the podcast."},{"startTime":3239.196,"endTime":3244.076,"body":"The people that are willing to"},{"startTime":3239.196,"endTime":3244.076,"body":"coach up to the C-level even,"},{"startTime":3244.726,"endTime":3248.276,"body":"even at the actual C-level in the"},{"startTime":3244.726,"endTime":3248.276,"body":"organization versus the people that"},{"startTime":3248.276,"endTime":3250.706,"body":"are effective coaching at the level."},{"startTime":3251.546,"endTime":3253.736,"body":"I mean, sure."},{"startTime":3253.736,"endTime":3255.596,"body":"I guess we can have a"},{"startTime":3253.736,"endTime":3255.596,"body":"conversation about that."},{"startTime":3255.806,"endTime":3261.386,"body":"I dunno how you would, I mean, the"},{"startTime":3255.806,"endTime":3261.386,"body":"job interview would be how you would"},{"startTime":3261.386,"endTime":3266.726,"body":"identify people capable of coaching"},{"startTime":3261.386,"endTime":3266.726,"body":"sealable versus not, but it's, again,"},{"startTime":3266.936,"endTime":3269.696,"body":"it's like any job interview, like"},{"startTime":3266.936,"endTime":3269.696,"body":"how are you sure someone can do that?"},{"startTime":3270.056,"endTime":3271.706,"body":"No, there's no asset test, right?"},{"startTime":3272.126,"endTime":3272.546,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":3272.636,"endTime":3273.386,"body":"You're not really."},{"startTime":3273.956,"endTime":3278.066,"body":"I think the only thing you could"},{"startTime":3273.956,"endTime":3278.066,"body":"do is a combination of obviously a"},{"startTime":3278.076,"endTime":3279.926,"body":"job interview to kind of vet that."},{"startTime":3280.691,"endTime":3283.811,"body":"Looking at the candidate's background,"},{"startTime":3280.691,"endTime":3283.811,"body":"what have they done that similar"},{"startTime":3283.811,"endTime":3285.341,"body":"and how effective were they there?"},{"startTime":3285.431,"endTime":3288.641,"body":"Yeah, so I think that's"},{"startTime":3285.431,"endTime":3288.641,"body":"probably the way to go."},{"startTime":3288.671,"endTime":3288.761,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":3289.451,"endTime":3293.521,"body":"I don't know about his  his take on the"},{"startTime":3289.451,"endTime":3293.521,"body":"situation because like, it's kind of up"},{"startTime":3293.521,"endTime":3299.651,"body":"to your organization to understand, who"},{"startTime":3293.521,"endTime":3299.651,"body":"should be in the realm of being coached"},{"startTime":3299.651,"endTime":3301.031,"body":"by the person that you're bringing on."},{"startTime":3301.081,"endTime":3302.741,"body":"Where do you see them organizationally?"},{"startTime":3303.051,"endTime":3304.971,"body":"Do you see them coaching all"},{"startTime":3303.051,"endTime":3304.971,"body":"the way up to the C-level?"},{"startTime":3304.971,"endTime":3309.401,"body":"Because if so, they probably"},{"startTime":3304.971,"endTime":3309.401,"body":"should be aligned, close to the"},{"startTime":3309.401,"endTime":3312.641,"body":"sea level if they're supposed to be"},{"startTime":3309.401,"endTime":3312.641,"body":"coaching to that level, you know?"},{"startTime":3313.001,"endTime":3316.691,"body":"So the job description should"},{"startTime":3313.001,"endTime":3316.691,"body":"be written in a way that kind"},{"startTime":3316.691,"endTime":3318.171,"body":"of, that kind of encourages."},{"startTime":3319.386,"endTime":3322.656,"body":"Attracting candidates that, that"},{"startTime":3319.386,"endTime":3322.656,"body":"have that skill or have done"},{"startTime":3322.656,"endTime":3324.156,"body":"that before in some capacity."},{"startTime":3324.726,"endTime":3325.026,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":3325.086,"endTime":3328.416,"body":"As opposed to lift and shift,"},{"startTime":3325.086,"endTime":3328.416,"body":"copy patient search that place."},{"startTime":3328.536,"endTime":3328.656,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":3328.686,"endTime":3328.836,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":3328.836,"endTime":3331.986,"body":"I mean, if you're a smaller organization"},{"startTime":3328.836,"endTime":3331.986,"body":"or if you have a new team,, if you"},{"startTime":3331.986,"endTime":3336.726,"body":"already have experienced people in"},{"startTime":3331.986,"endTime":3336.726,"body":"place and you're creating a new team"},{"startTime":3336.816,"endTime":3340.446,"body":"and you're looking for a scrum master"},{"startTime":3336.816,"endTime":3340.446,"body":"for your new team, maybe that's the"},{"startTime":3340.446,"endTime":3343.596,"body":"time for you to take a chance on"},{"startTime":3340.446,"endTime":3343.596,"body":"someone will less career experience."},{"startTime":3343.836,"endTime":3347.046,"body":"Cause you know, you have a framework"},{"startTime":3343.836,"endTime":3347.046,"body":"in place at your company to"},{"startTime":3347.046,"endTime":3348.396,"body":"mentor and bring on new people."},{"startTime":3348.576,"endTime":3351.126,"body":"Somebody posted this today about,"},{"startTime":3348.576,"endTime":3351.126,"body":"retrospective like, oh, well,"},{"startTime":3351.136,"endTime":3354.696,"body":"how do we know we're getting"},{"startTime":3351.136,"endTime":3354.696,"body":"our money's worth though."},{"startTime":3354.696,"endTime":3358.796,"body":"We're getting a return on our investment"},{"startTime":3354.696,"endTime":3358.796,"body":"for the time that we invest in the the"},{"startTime":3358.796,"endTime":3361.036,"body":"hour and a half that it takes to do."},{"startTime":3361.166,"endTime":3363.446,"body":"Let's say a company does"},{"startTime":3361.166,"endTime":3363.446,"body":"an, a retrospective, every"},{"startTime":3363.446,"endTime":3364.916,"body":"sprint and it takes an hour."},{"startTime":3365.066,"endTime":3367.436,"body":"And let's say you have 10"},{"startTime":3365.066,"endTime":3367.436,"body":"people on your team that are"},{"startTime":3367.436,"endTime":3368.876,"body":"involved in that retrospective."},{"startTime":3369.146,"endTime":3373.016,"body":"Well, that's 10 hours"},{"startTime":3369.146,"endTime":3373.016,"body":"every two weeks, you know?"},{"startTime":3373.016,"endTime":3377.156,"body":"So so basically every month I'm"},{"startTime":3373.016,"endTime":3377.156,"body":"spending 20 hours on retrospectives."},{"startTime":3377.366,"endTime":3378.596,"body":"That's a lot of time."},{"startTime":3378.596,"endTime":3384.666,"body":"How do I know I'm getting my business"},{"startTime":3378.596,"endTime":3384.666,"body":"money worth for 20 hours a month basically"},{"startTime":3384.716,"endTime":3389.366,"body":"20 hours a month or so was that 240"},{"startTime":3384.716,"endTime":3389.366,"body":"hours in a year and a retrospective tech?"},{"startTime":3389.516,"endTime":3390.126,"body":"Yeah, yeah."},{"startTime":3390.176,"endTime":3390.686,"body":"Two or four years."},{"startTime":3390.806,"endTime":3396.246,"body":"So what am I getting productivity wise"},{"startTime":3390.806,"endTime":3396.246,"body":"and whatever wise metric wise, basically."},{"startTime":3396.246,"endTime":3396.366,"body":"Right."},{"startTime":3397.476,"endTime":3400.626,"body":"And my reply on that, my"},{"startTime":3397.476,"endTime":3400.626,"body":"incendiary or plan on that one."},{"startTime":3401.751,"endTime":3405.411,"body":"Well, how do you know when you send an"},{"startTime":3401.751,"endTime":3405.411,"body":"employee to training what you're getting"},{"startTime":3405.621,"endTime":3408.951,"body":"back out of it, like you should use"},{"startTime":3405.621,"endTime":3408.951,"body":"it, you should apply the same metric."},{"startTime":3409.191,"endTime":3412.851,"body":"And if your metric is, I don't send"},{"startTime":3409.191,"endTime":3412.851,"body":"my employees to training, like you got"},{"startTime":3412.851,"endTime":3415.011,"body":"a problem, you've got a real problem."},{"startTime":3415.011,"endTime":3417.341,"body":"You got to look at and"},{"startTime":3415.011,"endTime":3417.341,"body":"deal with,  yeah, yeah."},{"startTime":3417.341,"endTime":3421.601,"body":"It's hard to quantify sometimes, but"},{"startTime":3417.341,"endTime":3421.601,"body":"you know, you can, you can point out"},{"startTime":3421.631,"endTime":3427.391,"body":"the, the improvements that have already"},{"startTime":3421.631,"endTime":3427.391,"body":"happened from past retros and, and point"},{"startTime":3427.391,"endTime":3429.101,"body":"those out and say, had we not improved?"},{"startTime":3429.131,"endTime":3430.901,"body":"What costs would we have incurred?"},{"startTime":3430.931,"endTime":3431.141,"body":"Right."},{"startTime":3431.471,"endTime":3431.831,"body":"Right."},{"startTime":3432.281,"endTime":3434.311,"body":"That's about the only thing"},{"startTime":3432.281,"endTime":3434.311,"body":"you can do for people that are."},{"startTime":3435.431,"endTime":3437.561,"body":"Understand you go retrospectives."},{"startTime":3437.741,"endTime":3437.981,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":3437.981,"endTime":3441.101,"body":"I'm not a huge fan of a"},{"startTime":3437.981,"endTime":3441.101,"body":"incendiary posts on LinkedIn."},{"startTime":3441.101,"endTime":3445.931,"body":"I, and generally speaking I try to"},{"startTime":3441.101,"endTime":3445.931,"body":"avoid incendiary posts in order to"},{"startTime":3445.931,"endTime":3447.701,"body":"attract attention on social media."},{"startTime":3447.701,"endTime":3450.901,"body":"That seems like a, not"},{"startTime":3447.701,"endTime":3450.901,"body":"really a great method yeah."},{"startTime":3450.901,"endTime":3454.931,"body":"Of using social media but, I see"},{"startTime":3450.901,"endTime":3454.931,"body":"a lot of this and I w I was a bit"},{"startTime":3454.931,"endTime":3459.491,"body":"concerned cause I'm like every,"},{"startTime":3454.931,"endTime":3459.491,"body":"every gatekeeping posts like this"},{"startTime":3459.591,"endTime":3465.441,"body":"that either tries to sell something"},{"startTime":3459.591,"endTime":3465.441,"body":"or to position yourself or whatever."},{"startTime":3466.096,"endTime":3468.856,"body":"Kinda it hurts the whole"},{"startTime":3466.096,"endTime":3468.856,"body":"community, you know what I mean?"},{"startTime":3468.856,"endTime":3472.616,"body":"And there, and I also, I also know"},{"startTime":3468.856,"endTime":3472.616,"body":"that there are people out there"},{"startTime":3472.616,"endTime":3477.356,"body":"that see every post like this and"},{"startTime":3472.616,"endTime":3477.356,"body":"it's just fuel for their fire to"},{"startTime":3477.356,"endTime":3478.856,"body":"be like, she agile doesn't work."},{"startTime":3479.216,"endTime":3479.966,"body":"Absolutely."},{"startTime":3479.966,"endTime":3480.506,"body":"That's right."},{"startTime":3480.506,"endTime":3482.546,"body":"That's that's the fallacy, right?"},{"startTime":3482.546,"endTime":3485.966,"body":"That they can quickly gravitate to"},{"startTime":3482.546,"endTime":3485.966,"body":"reading stuff like this, especially"},{"startTime":3485.966,"endTime":3490.886,"body":"when it comes from people that are"},{"startTime":3485.966,"endTime":3490.886,"body":"self-titled enterprise agile coaches."},{"startTime":3490.916,"endTime":3491.426,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":3491.516,"endTime":3493.166,"body":"So what are you really doing?"},{"startTime":3493.166,"endTime":3494.186,"body":"You're cutting off the branch."},{"startTime":3494.186,"endTime":3494.846,"body":"You're sitting on."},{"startTime":3495.176,"endTime":3496.196,"body":"That's what you're really doing."},{"startTime":3496.586,"endTime":3499.686,"body":"Maybe a, their problem is they"},{"startTime":3496.586,"endTime":3499.686,"body":"haven't gotten a loaf yet."},{"startTime":3499.686,"endTime":3500.106,"body":"I've titled."},{"startTime":3501.506,"endTime":3505.706,"body":"You are thought provokers some"},{"startTime":3501.506,"endTime":3505.706,"body":"thought thought leaders thought, okay."},{"startTime":3505.736,"endTime":3506.546,"body":"The leaders."},{"startTime":3506.606,"endTime":3507.056,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":3507.366,"endTime":3509.336,"body":"I'm just happy being a thought follower."},{"startTime":3509.756,"endTime":3510.746,"body":"That's that's work."},{"startTime":3510.806,"endTime":3513.116,"body":"That's work enough, but yeah."},{"startTime":3513.176,"endTime":3513.356,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":3513.566,"endTime":3514.976,"body":"Don't be a thought follower."},{"startTime":3514.976,"endTime":3517.276,"body":"That's I have to cut all this out."},{"startTime":3517.286,"endTime":3518.666,"body":"That's no,"}]}