{"version":"1.0.0","segments":[{"startTime":0.0,"endTime":2.65,"body":"we're about to talk about contracts"},{"startTime":0.0,"endTime":2.65,"body":"now , for most of my career, I"},{"startTime":2.65,"endTime":6.54,"body":"didn't have to deal with that until I"},{"startTime":2.65,"endTime":6.54,"body":"intersected with the government space."},{"startTime":6.922,"endTime":9.513,"body":"You're lucky that way that you"},{"startTime":6.922,"endTime":9.513,"body":"didn't have to deal with it before."},{"startTime":9.513,"endTime":12.734,"body":"All my life I've had to deal with"},{"startTime":9.513,"endTime":12.734,"body":"it, you've got two entities that"},{"startTime":12.825,"endTime":16.568,"body":"are agreeing on  here's what I'm"},{"startTime":12.825,"endTime":16.568,"body":"giving you, here's what you're"},{"startTime":16.573,"endTime":18.068,"body":"getting, here's what I'm paying you."},{"startTime":18.123,"endTime":19.541,"body":"I'm not paying any more than that."},{"startTime":19.732,"endTime":23.932,"body":"Ultimately it's around, that the"},{"startTime":19.732,"endTime":23.932,"body":"foundations of a commercial agreement."},{"startTime":24.013,"endTime":24.15,"body":"Yes."},{"startTime":24.15,"endTime":27.759,"body":"That's really what this is all around"},{"startTime":24.15,"endTime":27.759,"body":"they are a necessary evil that we"},{"startTime":27.759,"endTime":29.013,"body":"all have to deal with at some point."},{"startTime":29.341,"endTime":34.75,"body":"So today we're gonna explore different"},{"startTime":29.341,"endTime":34.75,"body":"contract types, contract forms, how"},{"startTime":34.941,"endTime":40.859,"body":"you deal with those, , and maybe even"},{"startTime":34.941,"endTime":40.859,"body":"touch on a few tips on in an agile way,"},{"startTime":40.913,"endTime":43.15,"body":"how should you deal with them, right?"},{"startTime":43.395,"endTime":45.113,"body":"We may be able to get there today as well."},{"startTime":45.159,"endTime":48.268,"body":"A huge hole in all of the"},{"startTime":45.159,"endTime":48.268,"body":"training that you go through."},{"startTime":48.723,"endTime":52.713,"body":"in, Scrum or Scrum Alliance"},{"startTime":48.723,"endTime":52.713,"body":"or , even the professional scrum,"},{"startTime":52.741,"endTime":54.545,"body":"people, , the scrum.org, yeah, yeah."},{"startTime":54.55,"endTime":58.823,"body":"Even them, huge hole in the"},{"startTime":54.55,"endTime":58.823,"body":"training of dealing with contracts."},{"startTime":58.85,"endTime":62.859,"body":"Cuz, , the Agile people will say,"},{"startTime":58.85,"endTime":62.859,"body":"well just talk to people, but then the"},{"startTime":62.859,"endTime":67.559,"body":"same side of that organization, the"},{"startTime":62.859,"endTime":67.559,"body":"business side will say it's contract."},{"startTime":67.613,"endTime":68.65,"body":"I mean it's legally binding."},{"startTime":68.695,"endTime":72.186,"body":"So, if you look at it from that"},{"startTime":68.695,"endTime":72.186,"body":"perspective,  like, it, it's not really"},{"startTime":72.186,"endTime":76.059,"body":"something as scary as purported by"},{"startTime":72.186,"endTime":76.059,"body":"the trainings and stuff about like,"},{"startTime":76.059,"endTime":77.823,"body":"well, we're not gonna do contracts."},{"startTime":77.827,"endTime":80.095,"body":"We're just gonna all talk to"},{"startTime":77.827,"endTime":80.095,"body":"each other and be cool, man."},{"startTime":80.1,"endTime":83.804,"body":"Well, that's, yeah, that's, Hey"},{"startTime":80.1,"endTime":83.804,"body":"man, Nirvana think right there."},{"startTime":83.804,"endTime":88.741,"body":"But pretty much every contract guarantee"},{"startTime":83.804,"endTime":88.741,"body":"has gone through the organizational legal"},{"startTime":88.795,"endTime":93.418,"body":"entity where they look at it, they they"},{"startTime":88.795,"endTime":93.418,"body":"may recommend changes to the language"},{"startTime":93.423,"endTime":96.054,"body":"they're in, and then they sign off on it."},{"startTime":96.136,"endTime":98.973,"body":"And that happens on both the"},{"startTime":96.136,"endTime":98.973,"body":"provider and the consumer side."},{"startTime":98.973,"endTime":99.054,"body":"Right?"},{"startTime":99.354,"endTime":100.554,"body":"Every single contract."},{"startTime":100.854,"endTime":107.754,"body":"Sometimes when you have a provider that is"},{"startTime":100.854,"endTime":107.754,"body":"quote unquote a trusted provider, right?"},{"startTime":107.891,"endTime":111.818,"body":"In that they've proved themselves, they"},{"startTime":107.891,"endTime":111.818,"body":"say what they do, they do what they say."},{"startTime":111.818,"endTime":114.736,"body":"Mm-hmm., what, what you might"},{"startTime":111.818,"endTime":114.736,"body":"do there is to come up with."},{"startTime":115.191,"endTime":118.518,"body":"More like a, a, an umbrella"},{"startTime":115.191,"endTime":118.518,"body":"understanding, but this is still a"},{"startTime":118.518,"endTime":119.827,"body":"legal instrument, don't get me wrong."},{"startTime":120.073,"endTime":125.709,"body":"So this instrument is called the MSA"},{"startTime":120.073,"endTime":125.709,"body":"or the Master Services Agreement."},{"startTime":126.163,"endTime":128.845,"body":"And all that's simply saying is,"},{"startTime":126.163,"endTime":128.845,"body":"this company that we're dealing"},{"startTime":128.845,"endTime":133.118,"body":"with,, we know the general terms"},{"startTime":128.845,"endTime":133.118,"body":"and conditions so-called T\u0026Cs Yeah."},{"startTime":133.118,"endTime":134.836,"body":"That we can agree with them on."},{"startTime":135.291,"endTime":139.909,"body":"And every time we have some, we"},{"startTime":135.291,"endTime":139.909,"body":"have a need for something from"},{"startTime":140.118,"endTime":142.027,"body":"that providing organization."},{"startTime":142.482,"endTime":144.036,"body":"We're not gonna create a new contract."},{"startTime":144.041,"endTime":148.1,"body":"What we'll do is we'll just create"},{"startTime":144.041,"endTime":148.1,"body":"a, a new, statement of work, which"},{"startTime":148.1,"endTime":150.145,"body":"then says, Okay, this is standalone."},{"startTime":150.145,"endTime":154.127,"body":"It's specifically fulfilling this"},{"startTime":150.145,"endTime":154.127,"body":"need that's here and now short term"},{"startTime":154.127,"endTime":158.563,"body":"possibly, but it abides by, and it"},{"startTime":154.127,"endTime":158.563,"body":"generally nests under that umbrella of"},{"startTime":158.563,"endTime":161.036,"body":"the MSA, the master services agreement."},{"startTime":161.418,"endTime":166.3,"body":"So in both the MSA and in the"},{"startTime":161.418,"endTime":166.3,"body":"statement of work, this language"},{"startTime":166.304,"endTime":170.618,"body":"that says one supersedes the"},{"startTime":166.304,"endTime":170.618,"body":"other and one supplants the other."},{"startTime":170.7,"endTime":171.209,"body":"Right?"},{"startTime":171.545,"endTime":175.2,"body":"That is very, very common, for trusted"},{"startTime":171.545,"endTime":175.2,"body":"providers where you are having them"},{"startTime":175.2,"endTime":177.782,"body":"provide services on more than one effort."},{"startTime":178.163,"endTime":178.382,"body":"Right?"},{"startTime":178.386,"endTime":181.163,"body":"If it's a one off, you may just"},{"startTime":178.386,"endTime":181.163,"body":"do one thing and be done with it."},{"startTime":181.163,"endTime":184.345,"body":"And you don't need an MSA because"},{"startTime":181.163,"endTime":184.345,"body":"there's nothing to be considered"},{"startTime":184.345,"endTime":186.718,"body":"here as, as like a master agreement."},{"startTime":186.745,"endTime":188.109,"body":"It's just an agreement."},{"startTime":188.136,"endTime":188.273,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":188.518,"endTime":189.391,"body":"A statement of work."},{"startTime":189.773,"endTime":192.091,"body":"We will pay you if you"},{"startTime":189.773,"endTime":192.091,"body":"shall deliver these things."},{"startTime":192.118,"endTime":192.527,"body":"That's it."},{"startTime":192.982,"endTime":193.282,"body":"Right?"},{"startTime":193.5,"endTime":197.227,"body":"that is a general skeleton"},{"startTime":193.5,"endTime":197.227,"body":"of, what exists out there."},{"startTime":197.5,"endTime":201.082,"body":"There are a lot of different"},{"startTime":197.5,"endTime":201.082,"body":"types and every single one"},{"startTime":201.082,"endTime":202.502,"body":"has three things in common."},{"startTime":202.957,"endTime":206.829,"body":"First thing is every version of a contract"},{"startTime":202.957,"endTime":206.829,"body":"or variant, or whatever you like to"},{"startTime":206.829,"endTime":210.284,"body":"say is legally binding and enforceable."},{"startTime":210.366,"endTime":210.447,"body":"Mm-hmm."},{"startTime":210.857,"endTime":212.302,"body":"in a court of law, Right?"},{"startTime":212.738,"endTime":215.493,"body":"So you don't sign a contract and"},{"startTime":212.738,"endTime":215.493,"body":"they say, Yeah, we said that,"},{"startTime":215.493,"endTime":217.92,"body":"but you know, it really didn't"},{"startTime":215.493,"endTime":217.92,"body":"mean that we kind of meant this."},{"startTime":217.947,"endTime":219.311,"body":"Even if you're earnest about it."},{"startTime":219.42,"endTime":219.584,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":219.775,"endTime":220.238,"body":"Sorry."},{"startTime":220.238,"endTime":221.493,"body":"It is a contract."},{"startTime":221.629,"endTime":222.257,"body":"That's the term."},{"startTime":222.284,"endTime":222.366,"body":"Mm-hmm."},{"startTime":222.584,"endTime":222.693,"body":". Right."},{"startTime":222.938,"endTime":226.993,"body":"So the, the word contract means that"},{"startTime":222.938,"endTime":226.993,"body":"it's something that you agree to provide"},{"startTime":226.993,"endTime":231.547,"body":"in return for a certain measurable,"},{"startTime":226.993,"endTime":231.547,"body":"quantified, agreed upon upfront return."},{"startTime":231.657,"endTime":231.82,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":231.984,"endTime":237.602,"body":"so the simplest one is a one off where"},{"startTime":231.984,"endTime":237.602,"body":"company A contracts with company B"},{"startTime":238.038,"endTime":240.684,"body":"for something and it something varies."},{"startTime":240.766,"endTime":240.984,"body":"Right?"},{"startTime":240.984,"endTime":241.966,"body":"So this something could be."},{"startTime":242.42,"endTime":247.402,"body":"Give us an injection of expertise in"},{"startTime":242.42,"endTime":247.402,"body":"the form of developers, Scrum, masters,"},{"startTime":247.429,"endTime":248.984,"body":"whatever it might be for a period of time."},{"startTime":249.202,"endTime":249.284,"body":"Mm-hmm."},{"startTime":249.502,"endTime":253.511,"body":", and that's all you're on the hook"},{"startTime":249.502,"endTime":253.511,"body":"to deliver if you are the provider."},{"startTime":253.566,"endTime":253.838,"body":"Right."},{"startTime":253.838,"endTime":254.566,"body":"That's all you're doing."},{"startTime":254.566,"endTime":254.893,"body":"Mm-hmm."},{"startTime":254.97,"endTime":257.138,"body":", you're not saying the scrum"},{"startTime":254.97,"endTime":257.138,"body":"master will do these things."},{"startTime":257.547,"endTime":260.084,"body":"There could be nuances here,"},{"startTime":257.547,"endTime":260.084,"body":"which, which can be detailed out."},{"startTime":260.538,"endTime":263.184,"body":", and then both parties would"},{"startTime":260.538,"endTime":263.184,"body":"agree or disagree on those."},{"startTime":263.184,"endTime":266.666,"body":"So there's some negotiation, but for the"},{"startTime":263.184,"endTime":266.666,"body":"most part, anytime there's an injection of"},{"startTime":266.666,"endTime":268.875,"body":"expertise, it is literally very general."},{"startTime":268.929,"endTime":269.066,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":269.238,"endTime":271.175,"body":", and it's based around the skill sets."},{"startTime":271.22,"endTime":276.775,"body":". , so a scrum master coming in on a contract"},{"startTime":271.22,"endTime":276.775,"body":"as a scrum master and just that would,"},{"startTime":276.829,"endTime":281.602,"body":"would simply, , entail a listing of the"},{"startTime":276.829,"endTime":281.602,"body":"kinds of duties that they would provide."},{"startTime":281.711,"endTime":281.793,"body":"Mm-hmm."},{"startTime":282.093,"endTime":285.193,"body":"They would, , help facilitate A, B, C D E."},{"startTime":285.575,"endTime":287.784,"body":"They would help, , with mitigating."},{"startTime":288.238,"endTime":291.184,"body":"Impediments on the teams, all of the"},{"startTime":288.238,"endTime":291.184,"body":"stuff that we know they should be doing."},{"startTime":291.184,"endTime":292.793,"body":"Same thing happens with any role really."},{"startTime":292.793,"endTime":296.329,"body":"Product owner dev, whatever the role"},{"startTime":292.793,"endTime":296.329,"body":"is, that's one type of contract."},{"startTime":296.784,"endTime":301.838,"body":"The other type of contract is more on"},{"startTime":296.784,"endTime":301.838,"body":"a tangible deliverable basis, right?"},{"startTime":301.838,"endTime":306.475,"body":"Like, so they, the company says, We"},{"startTime":301.838,"endTime":306.475,"body":"are contracting you to, to provide"},{"startTime":306.475,"endTime":308.838,"body":"to us the following functionality."},{"startTime":308.866,"endTime":312.384,"body":"And there's a bullet list, quite,"},{"startTime":308.866,"endTime":312.384,"body":"quite detailed and just says, You"},{"startTime":312.384,"endTime":314.402,"body":"will do this, you'll do this, you"},{"startTime":312.384,"endTime":314.402,"body":"will do this, you will do this."},{"startTime":314.857,"endTime":315.947,"body":"And those are deliverables."},{"startTime":315.947,"endTime":318.484,"body":"Now that's not an injection of expertise."},{"startTime":318.52,"endTime":324.611,"body":"It's really a provision of capability and"},{"startTime":318.52,"endTime":324.611,"body":"that may be, typically it is, , u i, UX"},{"startTime":324.611,"endTime":326.738,"body":"people, dev people, testers, et cetera."},{"startTime":327.002,"endTime":330.193,"body":", but at the end of that finite"},{"startTime":327.002,"endTime":330.193,"body":"defined period, the obligation"},{"startTime":330.193,"endTime":331.966,"body":"is over as long as you be."},{"startTime":332.42,"endTime":333.457,"body":"Those deliverables."},{"startTime":333.511,"endTime":338.42,"body":"And this is where things get tricky,"},{"startTime":333.511,"endTime":338.42,"body":"because if the contract is thorough and it"},{"startTime":338.42,"endTime":343.784,"body":"has, what the deliverables are in terms of"},{"startTime":338.42,"endTime":343.784,"body":"acceptance, like it just lays out it will"},{"startTime":343.784,"endTime":345.175,"body":"do this, it will do this, it will do this."},{"startTime":345.202,"endTime":345.311,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":345.766,"endTime":348.657,"body":"Then you're good because you have"},{"startTime":345.766,"endTime":348.657,"body":"criteria to measure up against."},{"startTime":348.884,"endTime":351.557,"body":"But if it's general, then"},{"startTime":348.884,"endTime":351.557,"body":"you have room for argument."},{"startTime":351.602,"endTime":351.82,"body":"Right?"},{"startTime":351.82,"endTime":353.811,"body":"Then that's where things"},{"startTime":351.82,"endTime":353.811,"body":"could get potentially tricky."},{"startTime":353.838,"endTime":353.975,"body":"Mm-hmm."},{"startTime":354.429,"endTime":356.32,"body":". So that's the second type of contract."},{"startTime":356.657,"endTime":360.12,"body":"A third type of contract is more of a"},{"startTime":356.657,"endTime":360.12,"body":"hybrid of those two things where they"},{"startTime":360.12,"endTime":363.338,"body":"say we're gonna contract a company"},{"startTime":360.12,"endTime":363.338,"body":"that basically is gonna do whatever"},{"startTime":363.338,"endTime":368.111,"body":"it takes, whether it, it requires,"},{"startTime":363.338,"endTime":368.111,"body":"expertise, , intellectual capital,"},{"startTime":368.429,"endTime":369.011,"body":"whatever you wanna call it, right?"},{"startTime":369.011,"endTime":373.566,"body":"That versus, developers and"},{"startTime":369.011,"endTime":373.566,"body":"producing a product for us."},{"startTime":373.57,"endTime":373.857,"body":"Mm-hmm."},{"startTime":373.929,"endTime":375.42,"body":", they will give us this result."},{"startTime":375.42,"endTime":378.875,"body":"So it's result oriented and it's usually."},{"startTime":379.329,"endTime":382.547,"body":"If it's a good contract, it"},{"startTime":379.329,"endTime":382.547,"body":"should be a singular result."},{"startTime":382.547,"endTime":384.675,"body":"Meaning this is what we need out of this."},{"startTime":384.838,"endTime":387.566,"body":"How you get that, that's up"},{"startTime":384.838,"endTime":387.566,"body":"to the providing organization"},{"startTime":388.002,"endTime":391.193,"body":"when there's multiples of"},{"startTime":388.002,"endTime":391.193,"body":"those things get tricky, right?"},{"startTime":391.197,"endTime":391.907,"body":"In the contract."},{"startTime":391.907,"endTime":396.07,"body":"Cuz you could meet one, you could meet"},{"startTime":391.907,"endTime":396.07,"body":"another, you could meet another maybe"},{"startTime":396.07,"endTime":398.634,"body":"80% and the third one, maybe 60%."},{"startTime":398.634,"endTime":400.352,"body":"Now have you met the contract?"},{"startTime":400.543,"endTime":401.661,"body":"That's where things get tricky."},{"startTime":401.661,"endTime":402.097,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":402.234,"endTime":407.488,"body":", so if you are a providing organization,"},{"startTime":402.234,"endTime":407.488,"body":"my first tip is one deliverable, right?"},{"startTime":407.488,"endTime":407.57,"body":"Mm-hmm."},{"startTime":407.707,"endTime":411.043,"body":". If it's not just an injection of, , of"},{"startTime":407.707,"endTime":411.043,"body":"human capital, it's gonna be one"},{"startTime":411.043,"endTime":412.652,"body":"deliverable that's gonna be your friend."},{"startTime":412.707,"endTime":416.197,"body":"You can measure against it, it's"},{"startTime":412.707,"endTime":416.197,"body":"binary, you delivered or you didn't."},{"startTime":416.652,"endTime":416.925,"body":"Right?"},{"startTime":416.925,"endTime":420.852,"body":"And make sure you put the acceptance"},{"startTime":416.925,"endTime":420.852,"body":"of those, like what defines acceptance"},{"startTime":420.852,"endTime":422.361,"body":"by the client in the contract."},{"startTime":422.816,"endTime":426.088,"body":"So these are base level contracts,"},{"startTime":422.816,"endTime":426.088,"body":"A and B working with one another."},{"startTime":426.543,"endTime":428.807,"body":"I think there are plenty"},{"startTime":426.543,"endTime":428.807,"body":"of variations on this as."},{"startTime":429.261,"endTime":431.197,"body":"Especially with, , time and materials..."},{"startTime":431.197,"endTime":432.571,"body":"and also fixed costs for that matter."},{"startTime":432.571,"endTime":432.762,"body":"Right."},{"startTime":432.762,"endTime":434.18,"body":"So let's just roll back a bit."},{"startTime":434.289,"endTime":434.48,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":434.935,"endTime":440.162,"body":"Types of contracts, we have time and"},{"startTime":434.935,"endTime":440.162,"body":"materials, which is literally, we're"},{"startTime":440.162,"endTime":444.026,"body":"gonna tell you to do something and"},{"startTime":440.162,"endTime":444.026,"body":"whatever time it takes, and usually"},{"startTime":444.026,"endTime":445.953,"body":"there is, there is a cap, right?"},{"startTime":446.253,"endTime":451.207,"body":"But whatever time it takes, we will give"},{"startTime":446.253,"endTime":451.207,"body":"you a certain amount of money per unit"},{"startTime":451.212,"endTime":453.553,"body":"time, per week, per hour, whatever it is."},{"startTime":453.935,"endTime":456.362,"body":"Oh, and by the way, should"},{"startTime":453.935,"endTime":456.362,"body":"you earn any expenses?"},{"startTime":456.817,"endTime":459.053,"body":"If they're in the contract, we"},{"startTime":456.817,"endTime":459.053,"body":"will give you those as well."},{"startTime":459.053,"endTime":460.826,"body":"Whatever they may be, travel and so on."},{"startTime":460.826,"endTime":462.053,"body":"These are pretty common, right?"},{"startTime":462.057,"endTime":462.089,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":462.298,"endTime":464.835,"body":"But, but there could be"},{"startTime":462.298,"endTime":464.835,"body":"more, There could be more."},{"startTime":464.835,"endTime":470.126,"body":"So in the contract, there could be,"},{"startTime":464.835,"endTime":470.126,"body":"provisions for the providing company,"},{"startTime":470.58,"endTime":474.853,"body":"incurring expenses on not only"},{"startTime":470.58,"endTime":474.853,"body":"tools that they have to buy, which."},{"startTime":475.307,"endTime":476.998,"body":"are, are needed to do the job."},{"startTime":477.026,"endTime":477.217,"body":"Sure."},{"startTime":477.244,"endTime":480.48,"body":"But also expertise they have to"},{"startTime":477.244,"endTime":480.48,"body":"acquire, even though if it's on"},{"startTime":480.48,"endTime":481.907,"body":"a, on a consulting basis, right."},{"startTime":482.18,"endTime":483.598,"body":"This needs to be in the contract."},{"startTime":483.598,"endTime":484.88,"body":"If it's not in the contract."},{"startTime":485.335,"endTime":489.098,"body":"Now again, you have ambiguity"},{"startTime":485.335,"endTime":489.098,"body":"and you've gotta go into a"},{"startTime":489.103,"endTime":490.544,"body":"court of law and argue this up."},{"startTime":490.817,"endTime":494.607,"body":"So imagine this, if, if a providing"},{"startTime":490.817,"endTime":494.607,"body":"company says, We will provide this"},{"startTime":494.607,"endTime":500.053,"body":"capability on a time and materials basis,"},{"startTime":494.607,"endTime":500.053,"body":"here's our condition, for this role, we"},{"startTime":500.053,"endTime":504.93,"body":"charge this amount per hour but then on"},{"startTime":500.053,"endTime":504.93,"body":"top of that, under the materials section,"},{"startTime":504.93,"endTime":509.921,"body":"right, it would say things like any"},{"startTime":504.93,"endTime":509.921,"body":"travel would be billed to the client."},{"startTime":510.303,"endTime":510.412,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":510.576,"endTime":512.567,"body":"But then that's the easy bit."},{"startTime":512.594,"endTime":517.067,"body":"The hard bit is what if that providing"},{"startTime":512.594,"endTime":517.067,"body":"organization needed to go acquire"},{"startTime":517.067,"endTime":520.448,"body":"tools or go acquire expertise or both."},{"startTime":520.83,"endTime":524.648,"body":"That should also be delineated in the"},{"startTime":520.83,"endTime":524.648,"body":"contract that says if we need to go"},{"startTime":524.648,"endTime":528.993,"body":"acquire a tool to provide this solution,"},{"startTime":524.648,"endTime":528.993,"body":"then that is billable to the the"},{"startTime":528.993,"endTime":530.902,"body":"company that is requiring the solution."},{"startTime":530.943,"endTime":534.761,"body":"But at the same time, they would wanna"},{"startTime":530.943,"endTime":534.761,"body":"make sure the tool is owned by them"},{"startTime":534.761,"endTime":537.739,"body":"at the end of it and the providing"},{"startTime":534.761,"endTime":537.739,"body":"company doesn't end up owning it."},{"startTime":538.193,"endTime":540.552,"body":"If you have a time and"},{"startTime":538.193,"endTime":540.552,"body":"materials contracts, Versus"},{"startTime":540.552,"endTime":542.707,"body":"a fixed cost contract, right?"},{"startTime":542.752,"endTime":548.143,"body":"That's the easiest barrier to entry for me"},{"startTime":542.752,"endTime":548.143,"body":"to understand this is, , I'm either gonna"},{"startTime":548.148,"endTime":553.516,"body":"pay for all the expenses along the way"},{"startTime":548.148,"endTime":553.516,"body":"for you to hit my, , success criteria, or"},{"startTime":553.898,"endTime":560.243,"body":"I've just given you a lump of money and"},{"startTime":553.898,"endTime":560.243,"body":"you alert me when you've hit the success"},{"startTime":560.598,"endTime":564.798,"body":"criteria there is no more money in that"},{"startTime":560.598,"endTime":564.798,"body":"un unless I change my idea, or, Right."},{"startTime":564.798,"endTime":570.63,"body":"Like, this is where I'm, interpreting"},{"startTime":564.798,"endTime":570.63,"body":"the Agile manifesto now, but I expect"},{"startTime":570.657,"endTime":573.739,"body":"that when they wrote it, they were"},{"startTime":570.657,"endTime":573.739,"body":"doing a lot of fixed cost contracts"},{"startTime":573.984,"endTime":577.034,"body":"when they wrote it, when they were like,"},{"startTime":573.984,"endTime":577.034,"body":"Oh, we're gonna  instead of contract"},{"startTime":577.034,"endTime":580.253,"body":"negotiation, we're just gonna work with"},{"startTime":577.034,"endTime":580.253,"body":"people and be cool and everything's cool."},{"startTime":580.607,"endTime":584.144,"body":"Cuz the idea of fixed cost is,, I'm gonna"},{"startTime":580.607,"endTime":584.144,"body":"take a million dollars to deliver this"},{"startTime":584.144,"endTime":589.325,"body":"software module and then I'm only gonna"},{"startTime":584.144,"endTime":589.325,"body":"hire two developers because I can pay them"},{"startTime":589.634,"endTime":591.462,"body":"a hundred, this is whatever the nineties."},{"startTime":591.507,"endTime":592.034,"body":"Yeah, yeah, yeah."},{"startTime":592.034,"endTime":595.698,"body":"It wasn't a hundred thousand dollars,"},{"startTime":592.034,"endTime":595.698,"body":"but, I can pay them $60,000 Right."},{"startTime":595.834,"endTime":601.416,"body":"And then I can just pocket $750,000"},{"startTime":595.834,"endTime":601.416,"body":"apart from my part-time project manager."},{"startTime":601.525,"endTime":601.907,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":602.234,"endTime":603.571,"body":"Like I can pocket the rest of it."},{"startTime":603.762,"endTime":604.034,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":604.039,"endTime":609.025,"body":"And then only if my team absolutely"},{"startTime":604.039,"endTime":609.025,"body":"throws a fit, will I, under protest,"},{"startTime":609.162,"endTime":613.325,"body":"bring on another developer, a third"},{"startTime":609.162,"endTime":613.325,"body":"developer, , only when all my deliverables"},{"startTime":613.325,"endTime":614.862,"body":"are in the red like that, I feel, Yeah."},{"startTime":615.071,"endTime":619.171,"body":"I feel the fixed cost"},{"startTime":615.071,"endTime":619.171,"body":"project management method."},{"startTime":619.512,"endTime":623.348,"body":"It's probably a, a , a big"},{"startTime":619.512,"endTime":623.348,"body":"reason for the Agile manifesto."},{"startTime":623.73,"endTime":625.884,"body":"? Well, yeah, I think, I think"},{"startTime":623.73,"endTime":625.884,"body":"you have something there."},{"startTime":626.048,"endTime":626.294,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":626.294,"endTime":629.63,"body":"The fixed cost, type of"},{"startTime":626.294,"endTime":629.63,"body":"contract was really propagated"},{"startTime":629.634,"endTime":631.421,"body":"by the government, right?"},{"startTime":631.425,"endTime":631.475,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":631.503,"endTime":634.394,"body":"Because they were fixed"},{"startTime":631.503,"endTime":634.394,"body":"budgets decided way up front."},{"startTime":634.398,"endTime":634.639,"body":"Mm-hmm."},{"startTime":634.803,"endTime":639.348,"body":"and there were ideation, , outputs"},{"startTime":634.803,"endTime":639.348,"body":"here's what we'll do, we'll improve"},{"startTime":639.403,"endTime":641.121,"body":"our infrastructure by whatever."},{"startTime":641.366,"endTime":641.448,"body":"Mm-hmm."},{"startTime":641.666,"endTime":644.148,"body":", very high level, like"},{"startTime":641.666,"endTime":644.148,"body":"really, really high level."},{"startTime":644.384,"endTime":648.039,"body":"and they probably ran politically on"},{"startTime":644.384,"endTime":648.039,"body":"those things, but we'll leave that aside."},{"startTime":648.175,"endTime":654.012,"body":"So what happens with that is you have, the"},{"startTime":648.175,"endTime":654.012,"body":"government has no choice but to say, Look,"},{"startTime":654.094,"endTime":655.484,"body":"this is all the money we've got, right?"},{"startTime":655.539,"endTime":655.894,"body":"Right."},{"startTime":655.948,"endTime":657.148,"body":"And we need these things."},{"startTime":657.312,"endTime":660.603,"body":"Now they put it out to what's"},{"startTime":657.312,"endTime":660.603,"body":"known as the tender process."},{"startTime":660.603,"endTime":661.639,"body":"So everybody goes out and."},{"startTime":662.094,"endTime":663.757,"body":"Let's see if we can bid for this work."},{"startTime":663.757,"endTime":663.975,"body":"Right?"},{"startTime":663.975,"endTime":664.821,"body":"Let's understand it."},{"startTime":664.821,"endTime":668.503,"body":"So each individual company, the"},{"startTime":664.821,"endTime":668.503,"body":"providing companies will look at that and"},{"startTime":668.503,"endTime":670.248,"body":"they'll say, We think we can meet that."},{"startTime":670.703,"endTime":674.303,"body":"Now the government as the contracting"},{"startTime":670.703,"endTime":674.303,"body":"company, their agency would look at all"},{"startTime":674.303,"endTime":675.994,"body":"of that and say, We trust this company."},{"startTime":675.994,"endTime":676.757,"body":"We're gonna go with them."},{"startTime":676.894,"endTime":677.084,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":677.221,"endTime":678.83,"body":"That's the selection process largely."},{"startTime":678.903,"endTime":682.939,"body":"But what happens from there is it,"},{"startTime":678.903,"endTime":682.939,"body":"It started off that way for sure."},{"startTime":682.939,"endTime":683.239,"body":"Right?"},{"startTime":683.239,"endTime":685.448,"body":"It started off really"},{"startTime":683.239,"endTime":685.448,"body":"simple, like fixed price."},{"startTime":685.448,"endTime":685.912,"body":"This is it."},{"startTime":685.912,"endTime":687.248,"body":"Here's what we want,"},{"startTime":685.912,"endTime":687.248,"body":"here's what we pay you."},{"startTime":687.412,"endTime":687.739,"body":"Right."},{"startTime":688.194,"endTime":691.421,"body":"But experience showed us that that"},{"startTime":688.194,"endTime":691.421,"body":"didn't work out all that well, right?"},{"startTime":691.421,"endTime":691.566,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":691.657,"endTime":691.875,"body":"Right."},{"startTime":691.875,"endTime":695.775,"body":"You never reached parity where people"},{"startTime":691.875,"endTime":695.775,"body":"say, Well, that terms up and we deliver"},{"startTime":695.775,"endTime":697.33,"body":"everything and you paid us everything."},{"startTime":697.33,"endTime":699.703,"body":"Everybody goes off happy and"},{"startTime":697.33,"endTime":699.703,"body":"it never worked that way."},{"startTime":699.921,"endTime":700.384,"body":"Never."},{"startTime":700.575,"endTime":705.821,"body":"So what happened instead primarily"},{"startTime":700.575,"endTime":705.821,"body":"is, Oh, the time's up, we haven't"},{"startTime":705.821,"endTime":708.684,"body":"delivered everything and we've"},{"startTime":705.821,"endTime":708.684,"body":"sucked dry all that money."},{"startTime":708.766,"endTime":708.875,"body":"Right?"},{"startTime":709.148,"endTime":709.884,"body":"So now what?"},{"startTime":709.994,"endTime":710.375,"body":"Right."},{"startTime":710.712,"endTime":713.848,"body":"Even before the nineties, this wasn't,"},{"startTime":710.712,"endTime":713.848,"body":"this was classically the pattern."},{"startTime":713.853,"endTime":714.284,"body":"Mm-hmm."},{"startTime":714.357,"endTime":719.184,"body":", and it was, well, things are"},{"startTime":714.357,"endTime":719.184,"body":"running over time, over budget."},{"startTime":719.294,"endTime":720.221,"body":"That's what used to happen."},{"startTime":720.548,"endTime":723.521,"body":", so there, there were some"},{"startTime":720.548,"endTime":723.521,"body":"moves afoot to try and kind of"},{"startTime":723.603,"endTime":725.048,"body":"course correct along the way."},{"startTime":725.503,"endTime":730.73,"body":"and the way that was done initially"},{"startTime":725.503,"endTime":730.73,"body":"was almost like a threat model, right?"},{"startTime":730.73,"endTime":735.639,"body":"So you said your organization said"},{"startTime":730.73,"endTime":735.639,"body":"you would do this much by this date."},{"startTime":736.094,"endTime":739.739,"body":"However, if you can't come up with"},{"startTime":736.094,"endTime":739.739,"body":"the goods by that date, Right."},{"startTime":739.766,"endTime":740.721,"body":"We would penalize you."},{"startTime":741.175,"endTime":744.721,"body":"So now the onus is on the"},{"startTime":741.175,"endTime":744.721,"body":"providing organization to come"},{"startTime":744.721,"endTime":746.28,"body":"up and deliver the goods, right?"},{"startTime":746.607,"endTime":747.944,"body":"Yeah., and the penalty was time based."},{"startTime":747.944,"endTime":751.825,"body":"So every, for every month, whatever,"},{"startTime":747.944,"endTime":751.825,"body":"every you did a time, , you are over."},{"startTime":752.234,"endTime":756.48,"body":"Meaning delayed past the original date"},{"startTime":752.234,"endTime":756.48,"body":"that was agreed upon by everybody,"},{"startTime":756.48,"endTime":758.044,"body":"all the parties, it's in the contract."},{"startTime":758.344,"endTime":761.153,"body":"the providing company got"},{"startTime":758.344,"endTime":761.153,"body":"penalized a certain amount."},{"startTime":761.153,"endTime":761.207,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":761.662,"endTime":766.916,"body":"And it soon came about historically"},{"startTime":761.662,"endTime":766.916,"body":"that unfortunately, that's"},{"startTime":766.921,"endTime":768.062,"body":"where most of them lied is."},{"startTime":768.198,"endTime":768.334,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":768.334,"endTime":771.062,"body":"We were late and, and yeah, you can"},{"startTime":768.334,"endTime":771.062,"body":"penalize us and we're gonna hurry up."},{"startTime":771.307,"endTime":772.507,"body":"We still couldn't deliver."},{"startTime":772.507,"endTime":772.698,"body":"All right."},{"startTime":772.744,"endTime":776.016,"body":"Let me pause in the middle of the fixed"},{"startTime":772.744,"endTime":776.016,"body":"cost discussion to, to stop for a second."},{"startTime":776.316,"endTime":778.389,"body":"And I'm gonna roll the"},{"startTime":776.316,"endTime":778.389,"body":"clocks back  to our podcast."},{"startTime":778.73,"endTime":779.366,"body":"On, , Taylor."},{"startTime":779.371,"endTime":779.975,"body":"Taylor, Yeah."},{"startTime":779.98,"endTime":780.294,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":780.294,"endTime":781.712,"body":"Here, the mega podcast."},{"startTime":781.716,"endTime":784.466,"body":"I'll, I'll link our Taylor"},{"startTime":781.716,"endTime":784.466,"body":"podcast in this one Every Child in"},{"startTime":784.466,"endTime":785.803,"body":"Kindergarten knows that podcast."},{"startTime":785.807,"endTime":790.344,"body":"Let me roll the year, , back to 1913, and"},{"startTime":785.807,"endTime":790.344,"body":"we're all working in factories and we all"},{"startTime":790.344,"endTime":794.616,"body":"walk to work and we can't afford a pair"},{"startTime":790.344,"endTime":794.616,"body":"of boots . And, , the reason for rolling"},{"startTime":794.621,"endTime":801.871,"body":"the clocks back is to move to a simpler"},{"startTime":794.621,"endTime":801.871,"body":"world where if I tell you, Om, I want"},{"startTime":801.871,"endTime":808.166,"body":"your, I want your Om's shoe company to"},{"startTime":801.871,"endTime":808.166,"body":"build me, , boots for my, , army soldiers."},{"startTime":808.548,"endTime":811.825,"body":"And, , I need, , a million boots a"},{"startTime":808.548,"endTime":811.825,"body":"year so in the a million boots a year."},{"startTime":812.044,"endTime":812.398,"body":"Okay."},{"startTime":812.425,"endTime":814.007,"body":"I wanna put a contract out there."},{"startTime":814.444,"endTime":815.562,"body":"Fixed cost contract."},{"startTime":815.88,"endTime":818.666,"body":", I don't care how many people you have"},{"startTime":815.88,"endTime":818.666,"body":"working in your boot factory, , whether"},{"startTime":818.666,"endTime":821.258,"body":"you have one or two people working in"},{"startTime":818.666,"endTime":821.258,"body":"your boot factory producing a million"},{"startTime":821.263,"endTime":825.021,"body":"boots, or whether you have a million"},{"startTime":821.263,"endTime":825.021,"body":"people producing one pair, boots each."},{"startTime":825.021,"endTime":825.294,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":825.466,"endTime":829.712,"body":", like I, doesn't matter to me, I'm"},{"startTime":825.466,"endTime":829.712,"body":"gonna pay you for a million boots."},{"startTime":829.739,"endTime":831.894,"body":"So, , how much is it for a pair of boots?"},{"startTime":831.975,"endTime":833.039,"body":"Multiply that by a million."},{"startTime":833.039,"endTime":833.83,"body":"I'll pay that much as it."},{"startTime":834.139,"endTime":838.912,"body":"That assumes that, first of all,"},{"startTime":834.139,"endTime":838.912,"body":"within the time period, you know"},{"startTime":839.348,"endTime":840.93,"body":"that you can deliver that many boots."},{"startTime":840.93,"endTime":841.366,"body":"Second."},{"startTime":841.503,"endTime":845.884,"body":". It assumes that you have all the skill"},{"startTime":841.503,"endTime":845.884,"body":"and talent you need to make boots."},{"startTime":845.912,"endTime":850.003,"body":"I'm assuming that you are not coming"},{"startTime":845.912,"endTime":850.003,"body":"from, I don't you're a shrimp boat"},{"startTime":850.003,"endTime":853.439,"body":"captain just sailing around Mississippi,"},{"startTime":850.003,"endTime":853.439,"body":"and I just tap you and I'm like,"},{"startTime":853.466,"endTime":855.321,"body":"You're, you're a boot manufacturer now."},{"startTime":855.412,"endTime":858.848,"body":"And here's a million dollars"},{"startTime":855.412,"endTime":858.848,"body":"to make me a million boots."},{"startTime":858.957,"endTime":860.212,"body":"$1 per pair of boots."},{"startTime":860.294,"endTime":861.057,"body":"That sound good."},{"startTime":861.194,"endTime":863.43,"body":"I mean, coming from a shrimp"},{"startTime":861.194,"endTime":863.43,"body":"boat captain, you're like, Oh,"},{"startTime":863.43,"endTime":864.439,"body":"a million dollars sounds great."},{"startTime":864.466,"endTime":865.366,"body":"I love million dollars."},{"startTime":865.366,"endTime":865.721,"body":"Sure."},{"startTime":865.803,"endTime":867.766,"body":"And you never made a boot in your life."},{"startTime":867.903,"endTime":871.589,"body":"In this example with the fixed"},{"startTime":867.903,"endTime":871.589,"body":"cost, if I'm the government and I'm"},{"startTime":871.644,"endTime":873.771,"body":"offering fixed cost contracts Yep."},{"startTime":874.016,"endTime":877.889,"body":"How do I know that you have no experience"},{"startTime":874.016,"endTime":877.889,"body":"making boots for my from, to basically"},{"startTime":877.889,"endTime":879.444,"body":"make boots for like, I need them."},{"startTime":879.58,"endTime":880.753,"body":"It's a very important reason."},{"startTime":880.753,"endTime":882.907,"body":"I need boots and I need"},{"startTime":880.753,"endTime":882.907,"body":"a million pairs of them."},{"startTime":882.962,"endTime":884.307,"body":"Yep it's very important."},{"startTime":884.662,"endTime":888.071,"body":"Do I have a whole division that"},{"startTime":884.662,"endTime":888.071,"body":"just does nothing but evaluates?"},{"startTime":888.521,"endTime":890.812,"body":"Your ability to fulfill"},{"startTime":888.521,"endTime":890.812,"body":"the contract and vets you."},{"startTime":890.812,"endTime":895.066,"body":"And like I've got now, now, if I I, I've,"},{"startTime":890.812,"endTime":895.066,"body":"I've hired basically as many people as"},{"startTime":895.066,"endTime":896.239,"body":"you have working in your boot factory."},{"startTime":896.266,"endTime":899.021,"body":"I hired that many people just to"},{"startTime":896.266,"endTime":899.021,"body":"check that all the people working"},{"startTime":899.021,"endTime":902.316,"body":"in your boot factory can build boots"},{"startTime":899.021,"endTime":902.316,"body":"is that, is that what we're doing?"},{"startTime":902.316,"endTime":905.371,"body":"Hey, unfortunately, in"},{"startTime":902.316,"endTime":905.371,"body":"reality, you're not far wrong."},{"startTime":905.534,"endTime":909.871,"body":"So in, especially given the government"},{"startTime":905.534,"endTime":909.871,"body":"scenario, you do have people that"},{"startTime":909.871,"endTime":913.525,"body":"go out and vet companies, vet"},{"startTime":909.871,"endTime":913.525,"body":"their past performance, et cetera."},{"startTime":913.716,"endTime":916.634,"body":"They do all of that before the"},{"startTime":913.716,"endTime":916.634,"body":"contracting stage though, so that"},{"startTime":916.634,"endTime":918.516,"body":"they narrow down the field Right."},{"startTime":918.762,"endTime":921.271,"body":"To those that they believe"},{"startTime":918.762,"endTime":921.271,"body":"can deliver the goods."},{"startTime":921.598,"endTime":925.662,"body":"And then it's those people that get the"},{"startTime":921.598,"endTime":925.662,"body":"invitation to tender is what it's called."},{"startTime":925.88,"endTime":926.18,"body":"Right?"},{"startTime":926.225,"endTime":927.344,"body":"So here's what we need."},{"startTime":927.398,"endTime":928.789,"body":"Go ahead and tell us that you can do it."},{"startTime":928.844,"endTime":928.925,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":928.98,"endTime":929.334,"body":"Right."},{"startTime":929.607,"endTime":931.262,"body":"And what, what your charges are gonna be."},{"startTime":931.68,"endTime":935.598,"body":"and this is also an opportunity"},{"startTime":931.68,"endTime":935.598,"body":"for the presenter of the tender to"},{"startTime":935.598,"endTime":936.689,"body":"kind of say, Yeah, we can do this."},{"startTime":936.689,"endTime":938.962,"body":"We can do this by this"},{"startTime":936.689,"endTime":938.962,"body":"date, however, right."},{"startTime":938.962,"endTime":943.344,"body":"And then putting all those clauses in the"},{"startTime":938.962,"endTime":943.344,"body":"contract that are it's so binding, right?"},{"startTime":943.407,"endTime":943.625,"body":"Mm-hmm."},{"startTime":943.698,"endTime":949.007,"body":", but they are in the contract not as"},{"startTime":943.698,"endTime":949.007,"body":"addend or add addendums, addendum,"},{"startTime":949.007,"endTime":950.68,"body":"addendum, addend, whatever."},{"startTime":951.134,"endTime":952.007,"body":"Multiple addendums yourself."},{"startTime":952.007,"endTime":952.153,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":952.153,"endTime":952.771,"body":"Addendums."},{"startTime":952.971,"endTime":953.353,"body":"Anyway."},{"startTime":953.398,"endTime":958.289,"body":"They're not separate because the, in this"},{"startTime":953.398,"endTime":958.289,"body":"example, they're identified up front."},{"startTime":958.398,"endTime":958.48,"body":"Mm-hmm."},{"startTime":958.78,"endTime":959.08,"body":", Right?"},{"startTime":959.298,"endTime":963.171,"body":"So in the initial contract, here are"},{"startTime":959.298,"endTime":963.171,"body":"things that we're gonna do, plus here"},{"startTime":963.175,"endTime":965.489,"body":"are the conditions that kinda underpin."},{"startTime":965.734,"endTime":966.553,"body":"Our contract."},{"startTime":966.557,"endTime":966.907,"body":"Right."},{"startTime":966.934,"endTime":967.262,"body":"Right."},{"startTime":967.616,"endTime":970.562,"body":"But yet, to, to your"},{"startTime":967.616,"endTime":970.562,"body":"question though, Yes, yes."},{"startTime":970.562,"endTime":973.671,"body":"There is a significant portion"},{"startTime":970.562,"endTime":973.671,"body":"of effort spent on whittling down"},{"startTime":973.671,"endTime":978.625,"body":"the field to those that we believe"},{"startTime":973.671,"endTime":978.625,"body":"are , feasible, viable contenders."},{"startTime":978.707,"endTime":978.98,"body":"Right."},{"startTime":978.98,"endTime":980.425,"body":"That can give us what we're looking for."},{"startTime":980.425,"endTime":982.089,"body":"Cause anyone can say, I can do this."},{"startTime":982.089,"endTime":982.416,"body":"Right."},{"startTime":982.871,"endTime":983.825,"body":"but obviously they can't."},{"startTime":984.044,"endTime":984.289,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":984.289,"endTime":985.789,"body":"Well that, that's kind"},{"startTime":984.289,"endTime":985.789,"body":"of my point with the."},{"startTime":986.244,"endTime":987.034,"body":"fixed cost."},{"startTime":987.171,"endTime":989.589,"body":"Anybody can say, Just gimme the money."},{"startTime":990.044,"endTime":993.244,"body":"I dunno why we're, we're boot"},{"startTime":990.044,"endTime":993.244,"body":"manufacturers now if the contract"},{"startTime":993.248,"endTime":996.389,"body":"is million pairs of boots and I"},{"startTime":993.248,"endTime":996.389,"body":"give you a million dollars Yep."},{"startTime":996.716,"endTime":997.316,"body":"That's the contract."},{"startTime":997.671,"endTime":997.834,"body":"Yep."},{"startTime":998.271,"endTime":1002.253,"body":"I give you a million pairs of boots and"},{"startTime":998.271,"endTime":1002.253,"body":"like, they're, they're all the wrong size."},{"startTime":1002.289,"endTime":1003.816,"body":"10% are a size eight."},{"startTime":1003.816,"endTime":1007.316,"body":", 10% are size nine, 10% yeah, I,"},{"startTime":1003.816,"endTime":1007.316,"body":"I, I, I'm, I'm having a tough"},{"startTime":1007.316,"endTime":1008.734,"body":"time with this contracting thing."},{"startTime":1008.789,"endTime":1011.925,"body":"Again, coming from mostly working"},{"startTime":1008.789,"endTime":1011.925,"body":"in agile shops in my  career."},{"startTime":1012.38,"endTime":1017.507,"body":"If you don't specify down to the detail"},{"startTime":1012.38,"endTime":1017.507,"body":"in the contract like what's to keep"},{"startTime":1017.507,"endTime":1019.798,"body":"the customer from moving the goal post"},{"startTime":1019.916,"endTime":1024.562,"body":"So it can happen, but it doesn't"},{"startTime":1019.916,"endTime":1024.562,"body":"typically because in the contract"},{"startTime":1024.562,"endTime":1026.662,"body":"you specify those as requirements."},{"startTime":1026.853,"endTime":1030.234,"body":"You give us a million pairs"},{"startTime":1026.853,"endTime":1030.234,"body":"of boots in this case, right?"},{"startTime":1030.28,"endTime":1034.362,"body":"Where it gets tricky is when we"},{"startTime":1030.28,"endTime":1034.362,"body":"look at things like quality, which"},{"startTime":1034.362,"endTime":1038.207,"body":"is often, especially in these"},{"startTime":1034.362,"endTime":1038.207,"body":"kinds of scenarios, it, it is often"},{"startTime":1038.253,"endTime":1039.671,"body":"qualitative, not quantitative."},{"startTime":1039.671,"endTime":1043.598,"body":"Yeah and then it gets worse even"},{"startTime":1039.671,"endTime":1043.598,"body":"in we talking about boots, which"},{"startTime":1043.598,"endTime":1046.816,"body":"is a tangible product, but even"},{"startTime":1043.598,"endTime":1046.816,"body":"in, intangibles,  services, Right."},{"startTime":1046.844,"endTime":1051.053,"body":"It can get really tricky in terms of"},{"startTime":1046.844,"endTime":1051.053,"body":"like, You're gonna provide services"},{"startTime":1051.053,"endTime":1055.462,"body":"where, how do you have quality on"},{"startTime":1051.053,"endTime":1055.462,"body":"those services that is quantifiable."},{"startTime":1055.571,"endTime":1055.971,"body":"Mm-hmm."},{"startTime":1056.048,"endTime":1059.662,"body":"."},{"startTime":1056.048,"endTime":1059.662,"body":"And so there is this idea"},{"startTime":1059.771,"endTime":1063.644,"body":"And the grade of  service simply"},{"startTime":1059.771,"endTime":1063.644,"body":"says, we're gonna lay out in an ideal"},{"startTime":1063.644,"endTime":1067.38,"body":"utopian world, if you provide me these"},{"startTime":1063.644,"endTime":1067.38,"body":"services, Brian, it will look like this."},{"startTime":1067.38,"endTime":1067.516,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":1067.971,"endTime":1071.271,"body":"But let's say, let's say, Hey, you"},{"startTime":1067.971,"endTime":1071.271,"body":"couldn't, for whatever, so you had"},{"startTime":1071.271,"endTime":1073.071,"body":"supply issues or whatever it was, right?"},{"startTime":1073.144,"endTime":1075.616,"body":"you couldn't get enough people, we're"},{"startTime":1073.144,"endTime":1075.616,"body":"not going through the reasons why."},{"startTime":1075.616,"endTime":1078.225,"body":"But if you couldn't,"},{"startTime":1075.616,"endTime":1078.225,"body":"the next tier is this."},{"startTime":1078.68,"endTime":1079.907,"body":"So this is what we want."},{"startTime":1080.362,"endTime":1082.489,"body":"This is the next tier,"},{"startTime":1080.362,"endTime":1082.489,"body":"this is the next year."},{"startTime":1082.489,"endTime":1085.117,"body":"And there's no, there's,"},{"startTime":1082.489,"endTime":1085.117,"body":"there's no legal reason why you"},{"startTime":1085.122,"endTime":1086.116,"body":"should only have two or three."},{"startTime":1086.253,"endTime":1087.071,"body":"You can have as many."},{"startTime":1087.316,"endTime":1091.653,"body":"This is just between the parties to"},{"startTime":1087.316,"endTime":1091.653,"body":"negotiate but here's the important thing."},{"startTime":1092.107,"endTime":1096.253,"body":"The contract isn't binding"},{"startTime":1092.107,"endTime":1096.253,"body":"at the, the top level."},{"startTime":1096.253,"endTime":1100.425,"body":"Meaning if I'm hiring , you and"},{"startTime":1096.253,"endTime":1100.425,"body":"your company to give me services"},{"startTime":1100.453,"endTime":1104.425,"body":"that meet these qualities, and"},{"startTime":1100.453,"endTime":1104.425,"body":"then if you can't do that, then it"},{"startTime":1104.425,"endTime":1106.334,"body":"meets these and you can't do that."},{"startTime":1106.334,"endTime":1109.844,"body":"It meets these, I'm not undertaking"},{"startTime":1106.334,"endTime":1109.844,"body":"to pay you a fixed amount."},{"startTime":1109.848,"endTime":1110.189,"body":"Mm-hmm."},{"startTime":1110.634,"endTime":1110.716,"body":". Right?"},{"startTime":1110.716,"endTime":1114.534,"body":"Since we're talking about fixed contracts"},{"startTime":1110.716,"endTime":1114.534,"body":"here, fixed term, what I'm saying is if"},{"startTime":1114.534,"endTime":1118.68,"body":"you do these top level things and you"},{"startTime":1114.534,"endTime":1118.68,"body":"meet them all, I will pay you what I say."},{"startTime":1118.68,"endTime":1119.198,"body":"I will pay you."},{"startTime":1119.416,"endTime":1119.58,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":1120.016,"endTime":1123.689,"body":"If you meet this second level"},{"startTime":1120.016,"endTime":1123.689,"body":"things, I will pay you this other"},{"startTime":1123.694,"endTime":1126.989,"body":"thing I'm saying I'll pay you, which"},{"startTime":1123.694,"endTime":1126.989,"body":"is lower than before and so on."},{"startTime":1127.444,"endTime":1129.734,"body":"so there's like a scale, like a Yeah."},{"startTime":1129.734,"endTime":1132.625,"body":"Tiered, a tiered repayment"},{"startTime":1129.734,"endTime":1132.625,"body":"or payment structure."},{"startTime":1132.68,"endTime":1132.871,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":1132.875,"endTime":1134.425,"body":"Based on the quality received."},{"startTime":1134.43,"endTime":1134.916,"body":"I like that."},{"startTime":1134.916,"endTime":1137.58,"body":"So let's weave this into the"},{"startTime":1134.916,"endTime":1137.58,"body":"agile world for a second if."},{"startTime":1138.034,"endTime":1142.198,"body":"Let, let's say for example, I'm on a"},{"startTime":1138.034,"endTime":1142.198,"body":"fixed, I'm on a fixed cost contract."},{"startTime":1142.653,"endTime":1147.366,"body":"And , let's say you are a government"},{"startTime":1142.653,"endTime":1147.366,"body":"client and I'm an agile delivery firm"},{"startTime":1147.371,"endTime":1152.103,"body":"of some sort maybe using that framework,"},{"startTime":1147.371,"endTime":1152.103,"body":"break down the features in the contract to"},{"startTime":1152.103,"endTime":1153.439,"body":"be like, we'll deliver you these features."},{"startTime":1153.494,"endTime":1153.684,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":1153.712,"endTime":1156.521,"body":"And maybe you have different classes"},{"startTime":1153.712,"endTime":1156.521,"body":"of features like ABC class of features"},{"startTime":1156.521,"endTime":1160.03,"body":"but the idea is , we're not delivering"},{"startTime":1156.521,"endTime":1160.03,"body":"all the features, but I'm trying to"},{"startTime":1160.03,"endTime":1165.048,"body":"figure out a way to, to weave fixed"},{"startTime":1160.03,"endTime":1165.048,"body":"cost contracting into the world of"},{"startTime":1165.403,"endTime":1168.703,"body":"we will keep working on your top"},{"startTime":1165.403,"endTime":1168.703,"body":"priorities as long as you want, and if"},{"startTime":1168.703,"endTime":1169.957,"body":"you wanna burn the whole fixed cost."},{"startTime":1170.412,"endTime":1174.139,"body":"just on your class one features."},{"startTime":1174.594,"endTime":1176.994,"body":"We'll just keep the whole team"},{"startTime":1174.594,"endTime":1176.994,"body":"on those, the whole contract."},{"startTime":1177.412,"endTime":1183.112,"body":"the contract at that point becomes less"},{"startTime":1177.412,"endTime":1183.112,"body":"of a list of deliverable A, B, C, D and"},{"startTime":1183.116,"endTime":1188.494,"body":"more of a, you will do feature work in"},{"startTime":1183.116,"endTime":1188.494,"body":"the order we specify and then we'll,"},{"startTime":1188.521,"endTime":1190.421,"body":"we'll basically pick 'em off a menu."},{"startTime":1190.425,"endTime":1191.321,"body":"I, I don't, I don't know."},{"startTime":1191.348,"endTime":1195.603,"body":"I'm trying to consolidate the two worlds"},{"startTime":1191.348,"endTime":1195.603,"body":"that don't seem able to be consolidated"},{"startTime":1195.766,"endTime":1197.348,"body":"yeah, it is a, it is a tricky ground."},{"startTime":1197.353,"endTime":1200.557,"body":"It's sort of like quick sand"},{"startTime":1197.353,"endTime":1200.557,"body":"almost, right, because you"},{"startTime":1200.557,"endTime":1201.866,"body":"know, you can navigate it."},{"startTime":1201.975,"endTime":1202.221,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":1202.357,"endTime":1204.621,"body":"So you can run really"},{"startTime":1202.357,"endTime":1204.621,"body":"fast across the field."},{"startTime":1204.921,"endTime":1207.675,"body":"Quicksand, you might make it you"},{"startTime":1204.921,"endTime":1207.675,"body":"dwell on it and you would sing."},{"startTime":1207.839,"endTime":1213.548,"body":"So I, I think some of these areas"},{"startTime":1207.839,"endTime":1213.548,"body":"dovetail into defining the requirements"},{"startTime":1213.548,"endTime":1214.939,"body":"and the expectations up front."},{"startTime":1215.394,"endTime":1215.721,"body":"Right."},{"startTime":1216.13,"endTime":1218.757,"body":"And, and thus far we've only"},{"startTime":1216.13,"endTime":1218.757,"body":"talked about fixed price contracts."},{"startTime":1218.757,"endTime":1218.758,"body":"Mm-hmm."},{"startTime":1218.975,"endTime":1221.53,"body":"But there are variations of fixed"},{"startTime":1218.975,"endTime":1221.53,"body":"price contracts that I think this is"},{"startTime":1221.53,"endTime":1222.948,"body":"probably an opportune time to Okay."},{"startTime":1223.157,"endTime":1223.712,"body":"delve into"},{"startTime":1224.166,"endTime":1227.657,"body":"one easy variation, I alluded to"},{"startTime":1224.166,"endTime":1227.657,"body":"this earlier, is the penalty clauses."},{"startTime":1227.657,"endTime":1227.93,"body":"Right?"},{"startTime":1228.148,"endTime":1232.139,"body":"So you put penalty clause in and say"},{"startTime":1228.148,"endTime":1232.139,"body":"you will deliver x, y, Z by this date."},{"startTime":1232.162,"endTime":1232.257,"body":"Mm-hmm."},{"startTime":1232.675,"endTime":1236.848,"body":", and for every month, wherever you"},{"startTime":1232.675,"endTime":1236.848,"body":"need a time it is delayed by then."},{"startTime":1236.875,"endTime":1241.694,"body":"There is a penalty imposed to the"},{"startTime":1236.875,"endTime":1241.694,"body":"providing organization of X dollar."},{"startTime":1241.698,"endTime":1243.93,"body":"It's usually percentage"},{"startTime":1241.698,"endTime":1243.93,"body":"based based on the SOW."},{"startTime":1244.23,"endTime":1248.039,"body":"So know it, there's a penalty of"},{"startTime":1244.23,"endTime":1248.039,"body":"let's say 5%, whatever the percent is."},{"startTime":1248.039,"endTime":1249.212,"body":"Again, that's between the parties."},{"startTime":1249.566,"endTime":1252.703,"body":"So the impetus is on the"},{"startTime":1249.566,"endTime":1252.703,"body":"providing organization to deliver"},{"startTime":1252.703,"endTime":1254.557,"body":"things as quickly as possible."},{"startTime":1254.557,"endTime":1255.812,"body":"In my example, thus far."},{"startTime":1256.084,"endTime":1257.748,"body":"Right so they don't incur penalty."},{"startTime":1257.798,"endTime":1260.334,"body":"that might sound okay,"},{"startTime":1257.798,"endTime":1260.334,"body":"but think about this."},{"startTime":1260.389,"endTime":1262.816,"body":"If you were a providing"},{"startTime":1260.389,"endTime":1262.816,"body":"organization, what would you do if"},{"startTime":1262.816,"endTime":1264.262,"body":"you were falling behind, behind."},{"startTime":1264.716,"endTime":1267.716,"body":"You would hurry the heck up and provide"},{"startTime":1264.716,"endTime":1267.716,"body":"things so you don't incur the penalty."},{"startTime":1267.716,"endTime":1267.88,"body":"Right?"},{"startTime":1268.334,"endTime":1271.716,"body":"What happens to the quality of what"},{"startTime":1268.334,"endTime":1271.716,"body":"you provide as a result of that?"},{"startTime":1272.171,"endTime":1273.98,"body":"Remember, there's nothing in"},{"startTime":1272.171,"endTime":1273.98,"body":"the contract about that, right?"},{"startTime":1274.434,"endTime":1277.353,"body":"So now you can stand up in a"},{"startTime":1274.434,"endTime":1277.353,"body":"court of law and say, We met"},{"startTime":1277.353,"endTime":1278.998,"body":"our obligations by this date."},{"startTime":1279.016,"endTime":1279.18,"body":"Right?"},{"startTime":1279.234,"endTime":1279.753,"body":"Pay us."},{"startTime":1279.944,"endTime":1281.416,"body":"And the judge would"},{"startTime":1279.944,"endTime":1281.416,"body":"have to be on your site."},{"startTime":1281.825,"endTime":1283.48,"body":"That the downside is yeah."},{"startTime":1283.78,"endTime":1286.507,"body":"The people paying for it didn't"},{"startTime":1283.78,"endTime":1286.507,"body":"get the quality they wanted, right?"},{"startTime":1286.553,"endTime":1289.88,"body":"The grade of  service is not something"},{"startTime":1286.553,"endTime":1289.88,"body":"you can just put out in a contract"},{"startTime":1289.884,"endTime":1295.034,"body":"and say, thou shall provide this level"},{"startTime":1289.884,"endTime":1295.034,"body":"of performance, quality, et cetera."},{"startTime":1295.144,"endTime":1295.471,"body":"Mm-hmm."},{"startTime":1295.544,"endTime":1296.671,"body":"that the five dimensions, right?"},{"startTime":1296.871,"endTime":1298.998,"body":"you cannot do that as a standalone."},{"startTime":1299.216,"endTime":1303.707,"body":"I think you have to do that in"},{"startTime":1299.216,"endTime":1303.707,"body":"conjunction with multiple variations,"},{"startTime":1304.162,"endTime":1305.434,"body":"variables, rather of those five."},{"startTime":1305.68,"endTime":1305.734,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":1305.844,"endTime":1307.834,"body":"Plus whatever fits your."},{"startTime":1308.289,"endTime":1309.707,"body":"Market need at the time."},{"startTime":1309.753,"endTime":1314.616,"body":"and what I mean by that is if you are"},{"startTime":1309.753,"endTime":1314.616,"body":"soliciting a vendor to build you a"},{"startTime":1314.621,"endTime":1318.207,"body":"bridge, you can say to the vendor, Hey,"},{"startTime":1314.621,"endTime":1318.207,"body":"listen, I only have this amount of money."},{"startTime":1318.662,"endTime":1320.162,"body":"You need to build me a bridge, right?"},{"startTime":1320.162,"endTime":1321.634,"body":"And the vendor says, Sure, we can do that."},{"startTime":1322.089,"endTime":1322.362,"body":"Great."},{"startTime":1322.366,"endTime":1323.316,"body":"They start doing this."},{"startTime":1323.316,"endTime":1323.317,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":1323.772,"endTime":1326.199,"body":"And then they run into"},{"startTime":1323.772,"endTime":1326.199,"body":"some headwinds because why?"},{"startTime":1326.499,"endTime":1330.163,"body":"There's supply chain issues"},{"startTime":1326.499,"endTime":1330.163,"body":"they can't find raw materials"},{"startTime":1330.554,"endTime":1331.972,"body":"or there's a delay, right?"},{"startTime":1331.999,"endTime":1334.317,"body":"Or there's an issue."},{"startTime":1334.372,"endTime":1337.854,"body":"They face an issue a recruiting"},{"startTime":1334.372,"endTime":1337.854,"body":"people, construction people, let's say."},{"startTime":1338.308,"endTime":1343.426,"body":"So all of that, all of that means that"},{"startTime":1338.308,"endTime":1343.426,"body":"the providing organization is delayed in"},{"startTime":1343.426,"endTime":1345.39,"body":"their delivery, not because they want to."},{"startTime":1345.444,"endTime":1345.581,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":1345.608,"endTime":1348.272,"body":"They're fully focused"},{"startTime":1345.608,"endTime":1348.272,"body":"on your issues, right?"},{"startTime":1348.272,"endTime":1351.708,"body":"Your needs, but they're not able"},{"startTime":1348.272,"endTime":1351.708,"body":"to because of market conditions."},{"startTime":1352.163,"endTime":1353.881,"body":"Which are of course"},{"startTime":1352.163,"endTime":1353.881,"body":"outside of their control."},{"startTime":1353.925,"endTime":1357.243,"body":"Um, logistics is a good example of"},{"startTime":1353.925,"endTime":1357.243,"body":"this is like, no, you can't predict"},{"startTime":1357.248,"endTime":1361.111,"body":"that fuel is gonna go up,  75%"},{"startTime":1357.248,"endTime":1361.111,"body":"in a course of like three months."},{"startTime":1361.111,"endTime":1364.648,"body":"And now things that you agreed to,"},{"startTime":1361.111,"endTime":1364.648,"body":"two months ago suddenly are not"},{"startTime":1364.648,"endTime":1366.039,"body":"profitable anymore because Exactly."},{"startTime":1366.043,"endTime":1367.757,"body":"The cost of your, That's a great example."},{"startTime":1367.784,"endTime":1368.493,"body":"Yeah, exactly."},{"startTime":1368.493,"endTime":1369.23,"body":"So now what happens?"},{"startTime":1369.23,"endTime":1370.866,"body":"Do they take the hit because of that?"},{"startTime":1371.002,"endTime":1371.166,"body":"Right."},{"startTime":1371.439,"endTime":1374.711,"body":"So again, going back to fixed price"},{"startTime":1371.439,"endTime":1374.711,"body":"contracts or fixed term contracts,"},{"startTime":1375.166,"endTime":1376.72,"body":"if they're simple fixed term."},{"startTime":1377.116,"endTime":1379.843,"body":"This can land you in some pickles"},{"startTime":1377.116,"endTime":1379.843,"body":"like this, like we talked about."},{"startTime":1379.87,"endTime":1380.034,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":1380.034,"endTime":1383.561,"body":"And the, and the company that is  the"},{"startTime":1380.034,"endTime":1383.561,"body":"consuming company is probably gonna"},{"startTime":1383.561,"endTime":1386.007,"body":"have the upper hand in this case"},{"startTime":1383.561,"endTime":1386.007,"body":"because it says so in the contract."},{"startTime":1386.011,"endTime":1390.416,"body":"However, these days we've moved"},{"startTime":1386.011,"endTime":1390.416,"body":"on from that simplistic fixed"},{"startTime":1390.416,"endTime":1391.78,"body":"price contract kind of model."},{"startTime":1391.784,"endTime":1391.925,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":1392.107,"endTime":1393.38,"body":"We're now in fixed price..."},{"startTime":1393.834,"endTime":1395.58,"body":"so we should unpack a few of those."},{"startTime":1395.58,"endTime":1395.77,"body":"Right?"},{"startTime":1395.77,"endTime":1399.634,"body":"So first variation of fixed price"},{"startTime":1395.77,"endTime":1399.634,"body":"contract is fixed price with"},{"startTime":1399.634,"endTime":1400.889,"body":"penalties, which I talked about."},{"startTime":1401.134,"endTime":1402.28,"body":"You know, you're late, you pay, right?"},{"startTime":1402.28,"endTime":1402.361,"body":"Yep."},{"startTime":1402.607,"endTime":1403.289,"body":"And that's fine"},{"startTime":1403.652,"endTime":1406.657,"body":"the second variation is the opposite way."},{"startTime":1406.661,"endTime":1409.22,"body":"What if you really do well"},{"startTime":1406.661,"endTime":1409.22,"body":"as a providing org, right?"},{"startTime":1409.22,"endTime":1411.92,"body":"Is, oh, it's the first time we ever"},{"startTime":1409.22,"endTime":1411.92,"body":"had a contract with the government."},{"startTime":1412.139,"endTime":1413.966,"body":"We wanna do well so we can"},{"startTime":1412.139,"endTime":1413.966,"body":"get more in the future."},{"startTime":1414.02,"endTime":1414.157,"body":"Mm-hmm."},{"startTime":1414.393,"endTime":1415.03,"body":", we wanna impress."},{"startTime":1415.275,"endTime":1418.161,"body":"Or there's the, the other issues that"},{"startTime":1415.275,"endTime":1418.161,"body":"I mentioned with the other model, which"},{"startTime":1418.166,"endTime":1422.061,"body":"is the, the delays in getting supplies,"},{"startTime":1418.166,"endTime":1422.061,"body":"there's not a lot they can do there."},{"startTime":1422.061,"endTime":1424.27,"body":"So they can offer to pay more or."},{"startTime":1424.611,"endTime":1426.357,"body":"Delays with acquiring talent."},{"startTime":1426.411,"endTime":1427.12,"body":"Again, same thing."},{"startTime":1427.12,"endTime":1427.993,"body":"They can often pay more."},{"startTime":1428.166,"endTime":1428.493,"body":"Sure."},{"startTime":1428.498,"endTime":1432.657,"body":"So they take the hit in general terms,"},{"startTime":1428.498,"endTime":1432.657,"body":"but they still deliver, But over deliver."},{"startTime":1432.684,"endTime":1435.739,"body":"So don't deliver by the day"},{"startTime":1432.684,"endTime":1435.739,"body":"they, It says in the contract you"},{"startTime":1435.739,"endTime":1437.62,"body":"deliver before, what's your reward?"},{"startTime":1437.784,"endTime":1437.948,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":1437.975,"endTime":1438.22,"body":"Right."},{"startTime":1438.225,"endTime":1442.42,"body":"So variation of fixed price is a fixed,"},{"startTime":1438.225,"endTime":1442.42,"body":"it's called, This is a real thing."},{"startTime":1442.448,"endTime":1444.548,"body":"It's called fixed price with incentives."},{"startTime":1444.575,"endTime":1444.82,"body":"Mm."},{"startTime":1444.875,"endTime":1448.448,"body":"And the incentives are spelled"},{"startTime":1444.875,"endTime":1448.448,"body":"out in detail in the contract."},{"startTime":1448.693,"endTime":1453.648,"body":"So it says for every month you need a time"},{"startTime":1448.693,"endTime":1453.648,"body":"of your choosing, that you deliver early."},{"startTime":1454.002,"endTime":1455.039,"body":"There will be an incentive."},{"startTime":1455.039,"endTime":1456.13,"body":"And again, it's percentage based."},{"startTime":1456.13,"endTime":1458.584,"body":"It's the same as the penalty,"},{"startTime":1456.13,"endTime":1458.584,"body":"It's just the other way."},{"startTime":1458.666,"endTime":1462.411,"body":"Yeah and, and so that's great because  if"},{"startTime":1458.666,"endTime":1462.411,"body":"you are providing org, you have to weigh"},{"startTime":1462.411,"endTime":1465.602,"body":"that up and say, Yeah, we're spending"},{"startTime":1462.411,"endTime":1465.602,"body":"more, but we're gonna get some back."},{"startTime":1465.902,"endTime":1467.157,"body":"Where does the equation give us?"},{"startTime":1467.157,"endTime":1467.348,"body":"Right."},{"startTime":1467.352,"endTime":1468.439,"body":"Like where, what do we do?"},{"startTime":1468.602,"endTime":1473.575,"body":"Right so there, those are two big"},{"startTime":1468.602,"endTime":1473.575,"body":"variations of fixed price contracts."},{"startTime":1473.984,"endTime":1474.993,"body":"And then there are others."},{"startTime":1475.102,"endTime":1475.402,"body":"Right."},{"startTime":1475.457,"endTime":1478.584,"body":"The others are, when you have a"},{"startTime":1475.457,"endTime":1478.584,"body":"fixed price contract, you could"},{"startTime":1478.584,"endTime":1482.039,"body":"put a stipulation in place that"},{"startTime":1478.584,"endTime":1482.039,"body":"says, Look, we're gonna give you"},{"startTime":1482.475,"endTime":1483.784,"body":"these things that you ask for."},{"startTime":1484.239,"endTime":1484.566,"body":"Right."},{"startTime":1484.62,"endTime":1489.039,"body":"Without any kind of this, I guess"},{"startTime":1484.62,"endTime":1489.039,"body":"this goes back to the first, the very"},{"startTime":1489.039,"endTime":1491.575,"body":"first raw kind of simplistic approach."},{"startTime":1491.684,"endTime":1491.766,"body":"Mm-hmm."},{"startTime":1491.989,"endTime":1496.502,"body":"without any , any indication of, of"},{"startTime":1491.989,"endTime":1496.502,"body":"time when we'll do that, which is"},{"startTime":1496.502,"endTime":1498.848,"body":"highly dangerous of course, or quality."},{"startTime":1499.257,"endTime":1499.639,"body":"Right."},{"startTime":1499.884,"endTime":1503.211,"body":"We're not guaranteeing any grade of"},{"startTime":1499.884,"endTime":1503.211,"body":"service or any quality levels here."},{"startTime":1503.525,"endTime":1507.007,"body":"We're just saying, we'll give you that,"},{"startTime":1503.525,"endTime":1507.007,"body":"and then you suffer the consequences."},{"startTime":1507.007,"endTime":1510.189,"body":"That's exactly what happened"},{"startTime":1507.007,"endTime":1510.189,"body":"with the underground tunnel"},{"startTime":1510.189,"endTime":1511.88,"body":"that was dug up in, in Boston."},{"startTime":1511.88,"endTime":1514.925,"body":"Right called the Big Dig, where"},{"startTime":1511.88,"endTime":1514.925,"body":"they put the highway underneath."},{"startTime":1514.93,"endTime":1515.08,"body":"Mm-hmm."},{"startTime":1515.534,"endTime":1516.08,"body":"The city."},{"startTime":1516.352,"endTime":1520.548,"body":"And the, the big, the big dig, it"},{"startTime":1516.352,"endTime":1520.548,"body":"took years and it was worth millions."},{"startTime":1520.548,"endTime":1522.075,"body":"But it went over budget."},{"startTime":1522.075,"endTime":1523.057,"body":"It went over budget."},{"startTime":1523.511,"endTime":1527.266,"body":"Now, putting aside the fact that there"},{"startTime":1523.511,"endTime":1527.266,"body":"were some underlying issues there, like"},{"startTime":1527.384,"endTime":1532.23,"body":"the crime and the element of the, the"},{"startTime":1527.384,"endTime":1532.23,"body":"mafia and all of that, put that aside."},{"startTime":1532.557,"endTime":1535.011,"body":"Regardless, all if that didn't"},{"startTime":1532.557,"endTime":1535.011,"body":"happen, it, there'd still be over"},{"startTime":1535.011,"endTime":1537.039,"body":"budget and it would still be delayed."},{"startTime":1537.039,"endTime":1537.339,"body":"Right."},{"startTime":1537.53,"endTime":1540.802,"body":"And that's because when they started"},{"startTime":1537.53,"endTime":1540.802,"body":"digging, they found certain circumstances."},{"startTime":1540.83,"endTime":1540.966,"body":"Mm-hmm."},{"startTime":1541.266,"endTime":1544.802,"body":", they ran into real"},{"startTime":1541.266,"endTime":1544.802,"body":"issues like water tables."},{"startTime":1544.802,"endTime":1545.839,"body":"They didn't anticipate mm-hmm."},{"startTime":1546.057,"endTime":1546.275,"body":". Right."},{"startTime":1546.711,"endTime":1548.32,"body":"And like, Oh, we have to pivot now."},{"startTime":1548.648,"endTime":1550.148,"body":"Same thing happened"},{"startTime":1548.648,"endTime":1550.148,"body":"with the channel tunnel."},{"startTime":1550.602,"endTime":1552.32,"body":"Except there was a bigger snafu there."},{"startTime":1552.348,"endTime":1555.184,"body":"And, and that's just comical because"},{"startTime":1552.348,"endTime":1555.184,"body":"they started digging from both sides."},{"startTime":1555.375,"endTime":1557.12,"body":"How on earth do you think"},{"startTime":1555.375,"endTime":1557.12,"body":"you're gonna meet in the middle?"},{"startTime":1557.12,"endTime":1557.72,"body":"And they didn't."},{"startTime":1557.748,"endTime":1557.83,"body":"Mm-hmm."},{"startTime":1558.198,"endTime":1558.375,"body":", right?"},{"startTime":1558.593,"endTime":1561.92,"body":"So both parties, France and"},{"startTime":1558.593,"endTime":1561.92,"body":"the United Kingdom, they dug"},{"startTime":1561.92,"endTime":1563.093,"body":"their bit and they we're here."},{"startTime":1563.12,"endTime":1564.784,"body":"We're here, but we're"},{"startTime":1563.12,"endTime":1564.784,"body":"not where we need to be."},{"startTime":1565.166,"endTime":1567.157,"body":"So there's a little bit of a jig there."},{"startTime":1567.184,"endTime":1569.039,"body":"If you ever drive through"},{"startTime":1567.184,"endTime":1569.039,"body":"the tunnel mm-hmm."},{"startTime":1569.42,"endTime":1572.693,"body":"or on on the rail or whatever, you'll see"},{"startTime":1569.42,"endTime":1572.693,"body":"that you actually feel it where, where it"},{"startTime":1572.693,"endTime":1578.039,"body":"suddenly pivots and it's not long enough"},{"startTime":1572.693,"endTime":1578.039,"body":"for you to not feel it scary but real."},{"startTime":1578.066,"endTime":1578.366,"body":"Right."},{"startTime":1578.366,"endTime":1582.684,"body":"It costs a lot of, a lot of money,"},{"startTime":1578.366,"endTime":1582.684,"body":"I'm sure to make the pivot so that's"},{"startTime":1582.684,"endTime":1586.857,"body":"another type of contract is there's"},{"startTime":1582.684,"endTime":1586.857,"body":"no regard to greater service quality,"},{"startTime":1586.939,"endTime":1588.739,"body":"timely delivery with dates, none."},{"startTime":1589.193,"endTime":1589.684,"body":"Simple."},{"startTime":1589.739,"endTime":1590.011,"body":"Right."},{"startTime":1590.293,"endTime":1595.298,"body":"So fixed price is something that"},{"startTime":1590.293,"endTime":1595.298,"body":"people think of as a simple thing"},{"startTime":1595.752,"endTime":1599.807,"body":"and it's not, It, it's a little bit"},{"startTime":1595.752,"endTime":1599.807,"body":"more complex because even a fixed"},{"startTime":1599.807,"endTime":1601.598,"body":"price contract will have clauses."},{"startTime":1601.88,"endTime":1602.125,"body":"Right?"},{"startTime":1602.125,"endTime":1602.261,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":1602.534,"endTime":1606.098,"body":"And it will have addenda, addenda,"},{"startTime":1602.534,"endTime":1606.098,"body":"addendums it will have all these things"},{"startTime":1606.098,"endTime":1608.88,"body":"that say, in this situation, we do this."},{"startTime":1608.88,"endTime":1610.87,"body":"And it's not simply a fixed price."},{"startTime":1610.925,"endTime":1611.007,"body":"Mm-hmm."},{"startTime":1611.252,"endTime":1613.816,"body":"for X over this time,"},{"startTime":1611.252,"endTime":1613.816,"body":"or just x or whatever."},{"startTime":1614.27,"endTime":1615.798,"body":"It's a little bit more nuanced."},{"startTime":1615.88,"endTime":1619.48,"body":"And if you're doing a fixed price"},{"startTime":1615.88,"endTime":1619.48,"body":"contract, if you are a contracting"},{"startTime":1619.743,"endTime":1623.78,"body":"company that is giving the fixed price"},{"startTime":1619.743,"endTime":1623.78,"body":"contract to others, bear in mind we"},{"startTime":1623.78,"endTime":1625.952,"body":"live in different times these days."},{"startTime":1626.007,"endTime":1626.252,"body":"Right?"},{"startTime":1626.252,"endTime":1631.18,"body":"E even building simple things like"},{"startTime":1626.252,"endTime":1631.18,"body":"simple, okay, A bridge, right?"},{"startTime":1631.289,"endTime":1633.443,"body":"It could land into trouble."},{"startTime":1633.498,"endTime":1636.061,"body":"The company that is providing"},{"startTime":1633.498,"endTime":1636.061,"body":"that, and you could say, Well,"},{"startTime":1636.061,"endTime":1637.07,"body":"that's their problem, right?"},{"startTime":1637.134,"endTime":1637.425,"body":"Mm-hmm."},{"startTime":1637.502,"endTime":1639.77,"body":", yeah, it is because they"},{"startTime":1637.502,"endTime":1639.77,"body":"you got them on a contract."},{"startTime":1640.207,"endTime":1641.489,"body":"But what happens if they go under?"},{"startTime":1641.943,"endTime":1642.761,"body":"You can't sue 'em."},{"startTime":1642.816,"endTime":1643.416,"body":"They're gone."},{"startTime":1643.58,"endTime":1643.743,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":1643.825,"endTime":1644.18,"body":"Right."},{"startTime":1644.452,"endTime":1647.37,"body":"So now you lost the money anyway"},{"startTime":1644.452,"endTime":1647.37,"body":"because you did pay your deposit down."},{"startTime":1647.534,"endTime":1647.698,"body":"Right?"},{"startTime":1647.698,"endTime":1649.416,"body":"It's fixed price doesn't mean"},{"startTime":1647.698,"endTime":1649.416,"body":"you pay everything at the end."},{"startTime":1649.561,"endTime":1649.889,"body":"Mm-hmm."},{"startTime":1650.016,"endTime":1652.034,"body":", you have to pay on a tiered scale."},{"startTime":1652.089,"endTime":1652.252,"body":"Right?"},{"startTime":1652.28,"endTime":1655.716,"body":"So you pay a certain amount of money and"},{"startTime":1652.28,"endTime":1655.716,"body":"if they started and you paid a little more"},{"startTime":1655.88,"endTime":1658.88,"body":"and then suddenly they're in, ran into"},{"startTime":1655.88,"endTime":1658.88,"body":"trouble financially, and they're gone."},{"startTime":1658.88,"endTime":1659.289,"body":"Mm-hmm."},{"startTime":1659.67,"endTime":1660.399,"body":", now what do you do?"},{"startTime":1660.461,"endTime":1661.58,"body":"So that money is gone."},{"startTime":1661.58,"endTime":1666.152,"body":"So if you tier the contract accordingly,"},{"startTime":1661.58,"endTime":1666.152,"body":"where you can never foresee the future,"},{"startTime":1666.157,"endTime":1667.407,"body":"everybody agrees with that, I think."},{"startTime":1667.407,"endTime":1667.57,"body":"Right."},{"startTime":1667.57,"endTime":1671.57,"body":"So, but you can minimize your losses"},{"startTime":1667.57,"endTime":1671.57,"body":"by tiering the contract in a way"},{"startTime":1671.57,"endTime":1676.37,"body":"where you're getting value and paying"},{"startTime":1671.57,"endTime":1676.37,"body":"for that value in smaller chunks."},{"startTime":1676.37,"endTime":1676.425,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":1676.425,"endTime":1677.57,"body":"Which brings us back to agile."},{"startTime":1677.789,"endTime":1677.952,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":1677.952,"endTime":1681.243,"body":"Well, I mean, the agile equivalent here"},{"startTime":1677.952,"endTime":1681.243,"body":"is like at the start of the sprint."},{"startTime":1681.27,"endTime":1683.861,"body":"I give you whatever, $80,000,"},{"startTime":1681.27,"endTime":1683.861,"body":"whatever, whatever it costs."},{"startTime":1683.861,"endTime":1683.916,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":1683.998,"endTime":1684.761,"body":"I'll fund the sprint for you."},{"startTime":1684.943,"endTime":1685.016,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":1685.161,"endTime":1687.757,"body":"Whatever, whatever it costs to pay"},{"startTime":1685.161,"endTime":1687.757,"body":"everyone's salary on the team and to keep"},{"startTime":1687.757,"endTime":1689.857,"body":"your servers running and stuff like that."},{"startTime":1689.857,"endTime":1691.875,"body":"Like I'll pay that much at the"},{"startTime":1689.857,"endTime":1691.875,"body":"beginning of the two week increment."},{"startTime":1692.12,"endTime":1693.048,"body":"At the end of the increment."},{"startTime":1693.048,"endTime":1693.73,"body":"You show me what you."},{"startTime":1694.184,"endTime":1697.802,"body":"And then I'll give you another $80,000"},{"startTime":1694.184,"endTime":1697.802,"body":"for the next I don't know how much"},{"startTime":1697.802,"endTime":1700.257,"body":"is, I probably should calculate"},{"startTime":1697.802,"endTime":1700.257,"body":"how much the sprint costs, but you"},{"startTime":1700.257,"endTime":1702.566,"body":"know, I, whatever it is, $30,000."},{"startTime":1702.566,"endTime":1703.848,"body":"I don't know how much a sprint cost."},{"startTime":1703.848,"endTime":1704.384,"body":"Yeah, yeah, yeah."},{"startTime":1704.775,"endTime":1705.62,"body":"And, that's the window."},{"startTime":1705.62,"endTime":1707.875,"body":"It's just like the larger"},{"startTime":1705.62,"endTime":1707.875,"body":"of the project, project."},{"startTime":1708.33,"endTime":1708.793,"body":"Air quotes."},{"startTime":1708.793,"endTime":1709.72,"body":"I'm doing super air quotes."},{"startTime":1710.175,"endTime":1714.634,"body":"The big difference though is this, with"},{"startTime":1710.175,"endTime":1714.634,"body":"a sprint, the time is only two weeks."},{"startTime":1714.689,"endTime":1714.798,"body":"Right."},{"startTime":1714.798,"endTime":1715.78,"body":"You can pivot right."},{"startTime":1715.943,"endTime":1716.816,"body":"Very quickly."},{"startTime":1717.27,"endTime":1719.261,"body":"Potentially you could pivot"},{"startTime":1717.27,"endTime":1719.261,"body":"as soon as every two weeks."},{"startTime":1719.261,"endTime":1719.343,"body":"Mm-hmm."},{"startTime":1719.561,"endTime":1721.88,"body":", if you had to, you say,"},{"startTime":1719.561,"endTime":1721.88,"body":"Well, okay, that didn't work."},{"startTime":1721.934,"endTime":1726.152,"body":"Let's change here with a"},{"startTime":1721.934,"endTime":1726.152,"body":"typical, typical contract mm-hmm."},{"startTime":1726.416,"endTime":1729.289,"body":"it is, it is months and sometimes years."},{"startTime":1729.316,"endTime":1729.425,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":1729.48,"endTime":1729.78,"body":"Right."},{"startTime":1729.78,"endTime":1732.889,"body":"And pivoting is outta the question"},{"startTime":1729.78,"endTime":1732.889,"body":"because it's not a new contract."},{"startTime":1732.893,"endTime":1732.916,"body":"Mm-hmm."},{"startTime":1733.37,"endTime":1735.389,"body":". So here's something for"},{"startTime":1733.37,"endTime":1735.389,"body":"people to think about."},{"startTime":1735.389,"endTime":1735.58,"body":"Right."},{"startTime":1735.584,"endTime":1736.452,"body":"Listen up everybody."},{"startTime":1736.67,"endTime":1738.961,"body":"This is something that's"},{"startTime":1736.67,"endTime":1738.961,"body":"worth it's weight in gold."},{"startTime":1739.416,"endTime":1739.661,"body":"Yes."},{"startTime":1739.661,"endTime":1740.234,"body":"You have a."},{"startTime":1740.689,"endTime":1745.834,"body":", but what about building into the contract"},{"startTime":1740.689,"endTime":1745.834,"body":"some points where you could pivot and"},{"startTime":1745.834,"endTime":1748.016,"body":"agreed upon points with the other party?"},{"startTime":1748.016,"endTime":1751.261,"body":"How about that contract doesn't have"},{"startTime":1748.016,"endTime":1751.261,"body":"to mean you're locked into something"},{"startTime":1751.261,"endTime":1753.134,"body":"for a year, two years, right?"},{"startTime":1753.589,"endTime":1755.034,"body":"Typically has in the past."},{"startTime":1755.039,"endTime":1759.207,"body":"But how about building those in and say,"},{"startTime":1755.039,"endTime":1759.207,"body":"at this point the contingency is this."},{"startTime":1759.207,"endTime":1759.289,"body":"Mm-hmm."},{"startTime":1759.725,"endTime":1761.198,"body":"the next point."},{"startTime":1761.389,"endTime":1766.325,"body":"And n plus one only happens if we all"},{"startTime":1761.389,"endTime":1766.325,"body":"agree at n that n plus one should happen."},{"startTime":1766.598,"endTime":1766.652,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":1766.707,"endTime":1769.298,"body":"So you all get together"},{"startTime":1766.707,"endTime":1769.298,"body":"and kind of do a re-eval."},{"startTime":1769.302,"endTime":1771.043,"body":"Should this contract continue or not?"},{"startTime":1771.048,"endTime":1774.566,"body":"If you did two week sprint for example,"},{"startTime":1771.048,"endTime":1774.566,"body":"would you put the two week windows"},{"startTime":1774.566,"endTime":1778.307,"body":"into the contract to say like, Hey,"},{"startTime":1774.566,"endTime":1778.307,"body":"basically what I'm saying is if you"},{"startTime":1778.307,"endTime":1781.02,"body":"were dealing with an entity like the"},{"startTime":1778.307,"endTime":1781.02,"body":"government, some, somebody  who you"},{"startTime":1781.02,"endTime":1783.939,"body":"would not typically think of as agile."},{"startTime":1783.966,"endTime":1784.648,"body":"That's what I'm trying to say."},{"startTime":1784.648,"endTime":1784.866,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":1784.866,"endTime":1785.002,"body":"Yeah, yeah."},{"startTime":1785.007,"endTime":1785.739,"body":"Not, not someone who."},{"startTime":1786.193,"endTime":1789.907,"body":"openly is hostile to even the concept,"},{"startTime":1786.193,"endTime":1789.907,"body":"but someone who you that you're gonna"},{"startTime":1789.907,"endTime":1793.125,"body":"have to sort of train them and bring them"},{"startTime":1789.907,"endTime":1793.125,"body":"along and help them understand, would"},{"startTime":1793.13,"endTime":1798.439,"body":"you put in the contract, the cadence that"},{"startTime":1793.13,"endTime":1798.439,"body":"you're working on, you must bring you must"},{"startTime":1798.439,"endTime":1800.648,"body":"have a rep who is available to the team."},{"startTime":1800.648,"endTime":1804.648,"body":"Cuz the idea is at the end"},{"startTime":1800.648,"endTime":1804.648,"body":"of every sprint, we need"},{"startTime":1804.73,"endTime":1805.875,"body":"feedback from the customer."},{"startTime":1806.066,"endTime":1810.502,"body":"So, I mean, if, if the customer is used"},{"startTime":1806.066,"endTime":1810.502,"body":"to basically not lifting a finger until"},{"startTime":1810.502,"endTime":1814.784,"body":"something contractually obligates them"},{"startTime":1810.502,"endTime":1814.784,"body":"to lift fingers, then it makes me think"},{"startTime":1814.784,"endTime":1817.948,"body":"that, that, that availability of that"},{"startTime":1814.784,"endTime":1817.948,"body":"customer, whoever you're working for,"},{"startTime":1818.402,"endTime":1820.257,"body":"it needs to be written down in the same."},{"startTime":1820.711,"endTime":1822.157,"body":"That the customers speak."},{"startTime":1822.157,"endTime":1826.348,"body":"So this is sort of a little bit of like"},{"startTime":1822.157,"endTime":1826.348,"body":"meet you where you are type of stuff."},{"startTime":1826.611,"endTime":1827.52,"body":"Yeah, Yeah."},{"startTime":1827.525,"endTime":1828.23,"body":"I, yeah."},{"startTime":1828.23,"endTime":1831.666,"body":"But I think you bring up a really"},{"startTime":1828.23,"endTime":1831.666,"body":"good point, which is really what"},{"startTime":1831.67,"endTime":1834.257,"body":"are the intervals you put in there"},{"startTime":1831.67,"endTime":1834.257,"body":"firstly, and then secondly, how do"},{"startTime":1834.257,"endTime":1838.539,"body":"you ensure that you get the feedback,"},{"startTime":1834.257,"endTime":1838.539,"body":"not that you, you should get it right."},{"startTime":1838.566,"endTime":1838.839,"body":"Right."},{"startTime":1838.839,"endTime":1841.675,"body":"So first, first things first is two"},{"startTime":1838.839,"endTime":1841.675,"body":"weeks is probably too short of a"},{"startTime":1841.675,"endTime":1843.148,"body":"timeframe to put into a contract."},{"startTime":1843.202,"endTime":1847.911,"body":"I might put in something a little bit"},{"startTime":1843.202,"endTime":1847.911,"body":"more akin to having, having the customers"},{"startTime":1847.916,"endTime":1851.102,"body":"on board with it, like maybe every"},{"startTime":1847.916,"endTime":1851.102,"body":"month or two months or three months,"},{"startTime":1851.102,"endTime":1852.402,"body":"depending on the size of the contract."},{"startTime":1852.439,"endTime":1854.62,"body":"If it's a multiyear contract"},{"startTime":1852.439,"endTime":1854.62,"body":"you put in every quarter, right?"},{"startTime":1854.811,"endTime":1854.893,"body":"Sure."},{"startTime":1854.948,"endTime":1858.42,"body":"If it's a yearly contrast, she'll go and"},{"startTime":1854.948,"endTime":1858.42,"body":"put in every, every quarter, every month."},{"startTime":1858.42,"endTime":1859.075,"body":"That's fine too."},{"startTime":1859.157,"endTime":1861.63,"body":"Yeah, but to your point that"},{"startTime":1859.157,"endTime":1861.63,"body":"this is, I think is key, right?"},{"startTime":1861.684,"endTime":1864.684,"body":"Hard cuz you as a, as a providing org."},{"startTime":1865.139,"endTime":1868.63,"body":"You're at the mercy really of"},{"startTime":1865.139,"endTime":1868.63,"body":"getting the customer's feedback."},{"startTime":1868.63,"endTime":1868.766,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":1868.93,"endTime":1870.348,"body":"How do you make sure you get it?"},{"startTime":1870.802,"endTime":1874.184,"body":"You can definitely weave that into a"},{"startTime":1870.802,"endTime":1874.184,"body":"contract and not just fixed term, any"},{"startTime":1874.611,"endTime":1879.175,"body":"contract to say, Here's what we will"},{"startTime":1874.611,"endTime":1879.175,"body":"provide, here's what you will provide."},{"startTime":1879.23,"endTime":1884.075,"body":"And it, and one of the ones under that"},{"startTime":1879.23,"endTime":1884.075,"body":"you will provide is a person who is a"},{"startTime":1884.075,"endTime":1889.111,"body":"stakeholder must be present at every"},{"startTime":1884.075,"endTime":1889.111,"body":"review and provide their feedback."},{"startTime":1889.411,"endTime":1893.839,"body":"And not only feedback, provide"},{"startTime":1889.411,"endTime":1893.839,"body":"explicit acceptance or not, Right?"},{"startTime":1893.839,"endTime":1893.92,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":1893.975,"endTime":1896.102,"body":"Of every feature that is demoed to them."},{"startTime":1896.557,"endTime":1899.739,"body":"Unless that is in there, they will"},{"startTime":1896.557,"endTime":1899.739,"body":"either not show up or, or just"},{"startTime":1899.739,"endTime":1901.239,"body":"say, Hey, you, you have some time."},{"startTime":1901.239,"endTime":1901.702,"body":"Go over there."},{"startTime":1901.975,"endTime":1903.202,"body":"And that persons are empowered, right?"},{"startTime":1903.311,"endTime":1905.139,"body":"So they're gonna go and not up and down."},{"startTime":1905.193,"endTime":1906.066,"body":"You say, Do you like it?"},{"startTime":1906.52,"endTime":1906.93,"body":"The accept."},{"startTime":1907.384,"endTime":1907.766,"body":"I don't know."},{"startTime":1907.793,"endTime":1908.039,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":1908.039,"endTime":1910.575,"body":"Well that, I mean, that gets you"},{"startTime":1908.039,"endTime":1910.575,"body":"out of the game that we, like I was"},{"startTime":1910.575,"endTime":1913.384,"body":"pointing out earlier of the whole,"},{"startTime":1910.575,"endTime":1913.384,"body":"you're not delivering like if, Yeah,"},{"startTime":1913.43,"endTime":1914.82,"body":"again, we're going back to fixed costs."},{"startTime":1914.984,"endTime":1918.311,"body":"If you have something in your fixed"},{"startTime":1914.984,"endTime":1918.311,"body":"cost contract that says, Hey, listen,"},{"startTime":1918.311,"endTime":1921.761,"body":"like I know that you you do your"},{"startTime":1918.311,"endTime":1921.761,"body":"contracts this way, and that's fine."},{"startTime":1921.761,"endTime":1926.134,"body":"We can work with you but in order"},{"startTime":1921.761,"endTime":1926.134,"body":"for us to do our best job, we have"},{"startTime":1926.134,"endTime":1929.38,"body":"to have we have to have someone"},{"startTime":1926.134,"endTime":1929.38,"body":"there when we do our reviews."},{"startTime":1929.384,"endTime":1932.307,"body":"We have to have somebody on demand"},{"startTime":1929.384,"endTime":1932.307,"body":"when we do our refinements or whatever,"},{"startTime":1932.361,"endTime":1935.316,"body":"whatever, whatever the event is whatever"},{"startTime":1932.361,"endTime":1935.316,"body":"the cadence is, doesn't really matter."},{"startTime":1935.37,"endTime":1935.561,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":1935.698,"endTime":1939.825,"body":"The point being they have to commit to"},{"startTime":1935.698,"endTime":1939.825,"body":"somebody to be the customer interface."},{"startTime":1939.825,"endTime":1944.48,"body":"And even, even if that person is"},{"startTime":1939.825,"endTime":1944.48,"body":"not empowered, like why, why is"},{"startTime":1944.48,"endTime":1946.28,"body":"someone who's not empowered being."},{"startTime":1946.734,"endTime":1948.125,"body":"Serve to the team as the rep"},{"startTime":1948.298,"endTime":1951.761,"body":"it would be difficult to say that you're"},{"startTime":1948.298,"endTime":1951.761,"body":"contractually meeting your obligation if"},{"startTime":1951.816,"endTime":1955.416,"body":"you're just sending some random person"},{"startTime":1951.816,"endTime":1955.416,"body":"to give the teams a thumbs up, but you're"},{"startTime":1955.443,"endTime":1957.025,"body":"not happy with what the team is doing."},{"startTime":1957.025,"endTime":1957.707,"body":"at that point."},{"startTime":1958.089,"endTime":1960.98,"body":"Now you have a little, I mean, you"},{"startTime":1958.089,"endTime":1960.98,"body":"don't have a little, you have all"},{"startTime":1961.098,"endTime":1962.589,"body":"the, the firepower you need Yeah."},{"startTime":1962.925,"endTime":1964.88,"body":"To hold 'em accountable as"},{"startTime":1962.925,"endTime":1964.88,"body":"far as the contract goes."},{"startTime":1965.07,"endTime":1968.498,"body":"Again, the amount that this is in line"},{"startTime":1965.07,"endTime":1968.498,"body":"with, like the principles of Agile"},{"startTime":1968.498,"endTime":1971.17,"body":"and whatnot, like are questionable at"},{"startTime":1968.498,"endTime":1971.17,"body":"this point of like, we're not gonna"},{"startTime":1971.17,"endTime":1974.525,"body":"fight each other and use the contract"},{"startTime":1971.17,"endTime":1974.525,"body":"to, to beat each other over the head."},{"startTime":1974.525,"endTime":1975.68,"body":"Right, Right that's not the point."},{"startTime":1976.007,"endTime":1979.707,"body":"we've been talking about projects"},{"startTime":1976.007,"endTime":1979.707,"body":"at this point, the juicy part that I"},{"startTime":1979.707,"endTime":1982.425,"body":"wanna jump into is in a fixed cost."},{"startTime":1982.425,"endTime":1985.807,"body":"If I'm working in a software"},{"startTime":1982.425,"endTime":1985.807,"body":"delivery firm, right?"},{"startTime":1985.807,"endTime":1989.316,"body":"Software development firm, and someone"},{"startTime":1985.807,"endTime":1989.316,"body":"is agreeing to deliver features"},{"startTime":1989.616,"endTime":1993.207,"body":"on a contract, and they don't have"},{"startTime":1989.616,"endTime":1993.207,"body":"the team who going to be delivering"},{"startTime":1993.589,"endTime":1995.525,"body":"the features in that conversation?"},{"startTime":1995.98,"endTime":1999.025,"body":"That is usually what I've seen"},{"startTime":1995.98,"endTime":1999.025,"body":"with fixed cost contracts."},{"startTime":1999.252,"endTime":2001.98,"body":"The, the salesperson, whoever"},{"startTime":1999.252,"endTime":2001.98,"body":"that signs a contract, they don't"},{"startTime":2001.98,"endTime":2003.889,"body":"talk to the development team"},{"startTime":2001.98,"endTime":2003.889,"body":"who's gonna be implementing."},{"startTime":2003.916,"endTime":2007.543,"body":"They go to the development team and"},{"startTime":2003.916,"endTime":2007.543,"body":"say, Hey, I have sold X and Y and Z."},{"startTime":2007.652,"endTime":2009.616,"body":"You have to deliver it by"},{"startTime":2007.652,"endTime":2009.616,"body":"the end of this contract."},{"startTime":2009.752,"endTime":2010.625,"body":"Yeah, here you go."},{"startTime":2010.707,"endTime":2011.17,"body":"Figure it."},{"startTime":2011.625,"endTime":2012.77,"body":"I'm gonna go back to my yacht."},{"startTime":2012.961,"endTime":2013.152,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":2013.152,"endTime":2013.998,"body":"Go make it happen."},{"startTime":2014.243,"endTime":2014.861,"body":"Yeah, yeah, yeah."},{"startTime":2014.866,"endTime":2016.37,"body":"That, that unfortunately is true."},{"startTime":2016.461,"endTime":2018.58,"body":"And, and you know, I'm willing to"},{"startTime":2016.461,"endTime":2018.58,"body":"bet that that theme that they're"},{"startTime":2018.58,"endTime":2021.961,"body":"addressing in this way is already"},{"startTime":2018.58,"endTime":2021.961,"body":"fully occupied with other things."},{"startTime":2021.961,"endTime":2022.07,"body":"Mm-hmm."},{"startTime":2022.289,"endTime":2024.252,"body":"that they've already put"},{"startTime":2022.289,"endTime":2024.252,"body":"on their plate in the past."},{"startTime":2024.252,"endTime":2024.525,"body":"Right."},{"startTime":2024.907,"endTime":2029.87,"body":"So, as a contracting organization"},{"startTime":2024.907,"endTime":2029.87,"body":"that is really, you, you're"},{"startTime":2029.87,"endTime":2030.716,"body":"doomed to fail basically."},{"startTime":2030.716,"endTime":2033.089,"body":"It's a risk of a disaster,"},{"startTime":2030.716,"endTime":2033.089,"body":"I think long term."},{"startTime":2033.089,"endTime":2036.825,"body":"Cuz you're gonna come up short a"},{"startTime":2033.089,"endTime":2036.825,"body":"b, you're gonna lose good people"},{"startTime":2036.825,"endTime":2038.134,"body":"cuz you're just now piling on them."},{"startTime":2038.134,"endTime":2038.243,"body":"Yeah"},{"startTime":2038.543,"endTime":2040.907,"body":"but I wanted to I wanna talk"},{"startTime":2038.543,"endTime":2040.907,"body":"about something that you touched"},{"startTime":2040.907,"endTime":2046.052,"body":"on, which is the obligations of"},{"startTime":2040.907,"endTime":2046.052,"body":"the consuming party here, Right."},{"startTime":2046.134,"endTime":2049.243,"body":"Providing stakeholders with"},{"startTime":2046.134,"endTime":2049.243,"body":"decision making powers, whatnot."},{"startTime":2049.27,"endTime":2049.352,"body":"Mm-hmm."},{"startTime":2049.807,"endTime":2051.834,"body":", these need to be spelled"},{"startTime":2049.807,"endTime":2051.834,"body":"out in the contract."},{"startTime":2052.152,"endTime":2055.289,"body":"They, they have to be spelled out no"},{"startTime":2052.152,"endTime":2055.289,"body":"matter what type of contract you have."},{"startTime":2055.316,"endTime":2059.034,"body":"Yeah and of the two types that we"},{"startTime":2055.316,"endTime":2059.034,"body":"talked about thus far, there is a."},{"startTime":2059.489,"endTime":2060.184,"body":"2.1."},{"startTime":2060.375,"endTime":2061.739,"body":"There's a little morph on that."},{"startTime":2061.848,"endTime":2062.139,"body":"Mm-hmm."},{"startTime":2062.211,"endTime":2064.93,"body":"on that one that says,"},{"startTime":2062.211,"endTime":2064.93,"body":"Okay, it's tnm, right?"},{"startTime":2064.93,"endTime":2067.248,"body":"So we'll do what you tell us"},{"startTime":2064.93,"endTime":2067.248,"body":"for as long as you have money."},{"startTime":2067.248,"endTime":2069.811,"body":"We'll keep doing this and"},{"startTime":2067.248,"endTime":2069.811,"body":"we'll bill are expenses."},{"startTime":2069.816,"endTime":2070.793,"body":"That's basically tnm."},{"startTime":2071.248,"endTime":2076.039,"body":"But even within that, a savvy provider"},{"startTime":2071.248,"endTime":2076.039,"body":"would talk to the customer and"},{"startTime":2076.039,"endTime":2077.566,"body":"say, What are we trying to do here?"},{"startTime":2077.73,"endTime":2081.302,"body":"How can we help you really get there"},{"startTime":2077.73,"endTime":2081.302,"body":"instead of just be a body shop for you"},{"startTime":2081.302,"endTime":2084.693,"body":"where we can just put bodies in place"},{"startTime":2081.302,"endTime":2084.693,"body":"that we'll bill you by the hour for."},{"startTime":2084.698,"endTime":2089.739,"body":"Right so the, the slight variation is"},{"startTime":2084.698,"endTime":2089.739,"body":"even in a TNM contract, it is possible to"},{"startTime":2089.743,"endTime":2095.63,"body":"put in some deliverables that you, as the"},{"startTime":2089.743,"endTime":2095.63,"body":"providing org is committing to provide."},{"startTime":2096.084,"endTime":2099.493,"body":"The tricky part is don't weave"},{"startTime":2096.084,"endTime":2099.493,"body":"those into above the line."},{"startTime":2099.52,"endTime":2102.457,"body":"What I mean by above the line,"},{"startTime":2099.52,"endTime":2102.457,"body":", that's not your contract that says"},{"startTime":2102.548,"endTime":2105.739,"body":"we'll provide these roles at this"},{"startTime":2102.548,"endTime":2105.739,"body":"hourly rate, et cetera, et cetera."},{"startTime":2105.848,"endTime":2107.975,"body":"And we, and we'll also have"},{"startTime":2105.848,"endTime":2107.975,"body":"these deliverables that we'll"},{"startTime":2107.975,"endTime":2108.93,"body":"commit to providing, right?"},{"startTime":2108.957,"endTime":2109.884,"body":"That's above the line."},{"startTime":2110.211,"endTime":2111.657,"body":"Don't do that because guess what?"},{"startTime":2112.111,"endTime":2116.148,"body":"Those deliverables could that, that"},{"startTime":2112.111,"endTime":2116.148,"body":"the requirements could change, right?"},{"startTime":2116.175,"endTime":2117.62,"body":"You're not in control of those."},{"startTime":2117.73,"endTime":2119.448,"body":"So don't do that cuz that's"},{"startTime":2117.73,"endTime":2119.448,"body":"never gonna work out."},{"startTime":2119.448,"endTime":2122.42,"body":"Well, especially for a project that's"},{"startTime":2119.448,"endTime":2122.42,"body":"more than six months in duration,"},{"startTime":2122.857,"endTime":2126.475,"body":"Rather put 'em below the line,"},{"startTime":2122.857,"endTime":2126.475,"body":"meaning we'll get paid no matter what."},{"startTime":2126.475,"endTime":2126.693,"body":"Right?"},{"startTime":2126.698,"endTime":2128.866,"body":"It's truly a tn m Yeah."},{"startTime":2129.002,"endTime":2133.23,"body":"And then down here, below the line,"},{"startTime":2129.002,"endTime":2133.23,"body":"we will also strive to provide you"},{"startTime":2133.393,"endTime":2136.748,"body":"these things by these states, assuming,"},{"startTime":2133.393,"endTime":2136.748,"body":"and there's the list of assumptions."},{"startTime":2137.048,"endTime":2137.92,"body":"You don't change your mind."},{"startTime":2138.111,"endTime":2140.611,"body":"If you do, we have to renegotiate, right?"},{"startTime":2140.857,"endTime":2141.811,"body":"And so on and so forth."},{"startTime":2141.816,"endTime":2145.33,"body":"So assuming that we, in a utopian world,"},{"startTime":2141.816,"endTime":2145.33,"body":"nobody changes their mind, and this"},{"startTime":2145.334,"endTime":2150.093,"body":"company delivers to, let's say three out"},{"startTime":2145.334,"endTime":2150.093,"body":"of those six, that's not a good ratio."},{"startTime":2150.093,"endTime":2151.048,"body":"Let's just say three outta eight."},{"startTime":2151.502,"endTime":2153.875,"body":"Three out of eight of these"},{"startTime":2151.502,"endTime":2153.875,"body":"bullet points that are below the"},{"startTime":2153.875,"endTime":2157.766,"body":"line, they got what they would've"},{"startTime":2153.875,"endTime":2157.766,"body":"got anyway, which is the tnm."},{"startTime":2157.93,"endTime":2158.284,"body":"Right?"},{"startTime":2158.584,"endTime":2160.057,"body":"Expenses are Wash tnm."},{"startTime":2160.057,"endTime":2162.83,"body":"They got that money, they"},{"startTime":2160.057,"endTime":2162.83,"body":"got this extra mm-hmm."},{"startTime":2162.966,"endTime":2166.866,"body":". So you might say, Wow, that's great, but"},{"startTime":2162.966,"endTime":2166.866,"body":"the company that pays the extra Right,"},{"startTime":2166.92,"endTime":2168.584,"body":"that's below the line also got more."},{"startTime":2168.775,"endTime":2171.257,"body":"Yeah, they got more because they"},{"startTime":2168.775,"endTime":2171.257,"body":"didn't just get hired hands."},{"startTime":2171.557,"endTime":2174.693,"body":"They've got tangible results that"},{"startTime":2171.557,"endTime":2174.693,"body":"were delivered by those people."},{"startTime":2174.884,"endTime":2179.539,"body":"The how isn't of concern for the"},{"startTime":2174.884,"endTime":2179.539,"body":"company that is paying on this contract?"},{"startTime":2179.539,"endTime":2181.475,"body":"It is of concern for the"},{"startTime":2179.539,"endTime":2181.475,"body":"company that is providing."},{"startTime":2181.475,"endTime":2185.62,"body":"So as long as there is enough there below"},{"startTime":2181.475,"endTime":2185.62,"body":"the line, they will make the how happen."},{"startTime":2185.62,"endTime":2188.784,"body":"Meaning they may even have to hire"},{"startTime":2185.62,"endTime":2188.784,"body":"people if it's lucrative enough."},{"startTime":2188.784,"endTime":2188.839,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":2188.893,"endTime":2191.693,"body":"Or if it's correspondingly"},{"startTime":2188.893,"endTime":2191.693,"body":"like profitable, whatever."},{"startTime":2191.775,"endTime":2191.884,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":2191.93,"endTime":2192.584,"body":"That is a."},{"startTime":2193.039,"endTime":2196.393,"body":"Like a variation of a tnm TNM"},{"startTime":2193.039,"endTime":2196.393,"body":"plus plus is what I call that."},{"startTime":2196.393,"endTime":2198.111,"body":"Well, if you're trying to beat"},{"startTime":2196.393,"endTime":2198.111,"body":"a date or something like that."},{"startTime":2198.111,"endTime":2198.302,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":2198.302,"endTime":2199.093,"body":"It totally makes sense."},{"startTime":2199.102,"endTime":2203.084,"body":"We're working together the vendor and the,"},{"startTime":2199.102,"endTime":2203.084,"body":"and the whatever supplier, I don't know."},{"startTime":2203.157,"endTime":2203.412,"body":"Yeah, yeah."},{"startTime":2203.417,"endTime":2203.739,"body":"Supplier."},{"startTime":2204.066,"endTime":2207.039,"body":"We're both working together to try"},{"startTime":2204.066,"endTime":2207.039,"body":"to be a date, and if you have to"},{"startTime":2207.148,"endTime":2210.284,"body":"bring on more people and I'm willing"},{"startTime":2207.148,"endTime":2210.284,"body":"to pay for more people, we just have"},{"startTime":2210.284,"endTime":2212.157,"body":"a conversation and then it happens."},{"startTime":2212.302,"endTime":2214.593,"body":"The time and materials, we didn't"},{"startTime":2212.302,"endTime":2214.593,"body":"spend a lot of time talking about time"},{"startTime":2214.593,"endTime":2216.611,"body":"and materials we kinda weed in with"},{"startTime":2214.593,"endTime":2216.611,"body":"different things we were talking about."},{"startTime":2216.611,"endTime":2216.966,"body":"Yeah, sure."},{"startTime":2217.075,"endTime":2218.711,"body":"Because that, that makes the"},{"startTime":2217.075,"endTime":2218.711,"body":"most sense, like the time and"},{"startTime":2218.716,"endTime":2222.72,"body":"materials is, I want more things"},{"startTime":2218.716,"endTime":2222.72,"body":"I have to pay to get more things."},{"startTime":2222.72,"endTime":2224.384,"body":"Like, it makes total sense to me."},{"startTime":2224.548,"endTime":2227.52,"body":"I'm not talking a lot about time"},{"startTime":2224.548,"endTime":2227.52,"body":"and materials in the podcast because"},{"startTime":2227.684,"endTime":2230.957,"body":"I can easily wrap my head around"},{"startTime":2227.684,"endTime":2230.957,"body":"time and materials and agile."},{"startTime":2231.148,"endTime":2234.202,"body":"The idea is I'm gonna focus"},{"startTime":2231.148,"endTime":2234.202,"body":"on one goal at a time."},{"startTime":2234.557,"endTime":2235.593,"body":"That's, that's the idea."},{"startTime":2236.048,"endTime":2240.52,"body":"And then if I want to pick up a second"},{"startTime":2236.048,"endTime":2240.52,"body":"goal, Or like for example, I'll, I"},{"startTime":2240.52,"endTime":2242.73,"body":"will, I can only have one priority one."},{"startTime":2243.184,"endTime":2243.62,"body":"Yes."},{"startTime":2243.866,"endTime":2247.766,"body":"And then if I wanna pick up a second"},{"startTime":2243.866,"endTime":2247.766,"body":"priority one, the answer is very easy."},{"startTime":2247.902,"endTime":2251.011,"body":"Well then we pick up a second"},{"startTime":2247.902,"endTime":2251.011,"body":"team, we have to spin up a whole"},{"startTime":2251.011,"endTime":2254.311,"body":"nother team, A and a B team, and"},{"startTime":2251.011,"endTime":2254.311,"body":"you have to pay for another team."},{"startTime":2254.502,"endTime":2258.32,"body":"So you can deliver on priority one"},{"startTime":2254.502,"endTime":2258.32,"body":"A and priority one B, which happened"},{"startTime":2258.32,"endTime":2261.966,"body":"at the same time in the, on the same"},{"startTime":2258.32,"endTime":2261.966,"body":"timeline that makes a lot of sense to me."},{"startTime":2262.211,"endTime":2264.202,"body":"I don't think anybody"},{"startTime":2262.211,"endTime":2264.202,"body":"has difficulty with that."},{"startTime":2264.207,"endTime":2264.911,"body":"And understanding agile."},{"startTime":2265.002,"endTime":2269.92,"body":"where my tiny, tiny brain gets short"},{"startTime":2265.002,"endTime":2269.92,"body":"circuited is when you have a development"},{"startTime":2269.92,"endTime":2271.448,"body":"team and that development team."},{"startTime":2271.902,"endTime":2275.475,"body":"Has successfully delivered for"},{"startTime":2271.902,"endTime":2275.475,"body":"either this client or other clients"},{"startTime":2275.666,"endTime":2280.557,"body":"functionality A, functionality B,"},{"startTime":2275.666,"endTime":2280.557,"body":"or functionality C, and now we're"},{"startTime":2280.557,"endTime":2286.193,"body":"going to turn around and implement"},{"startTime":2280.557,"endTime":2286.193,"body":"functionality A, B, or C for you, Mr."},{"startTime":2286.193,"endTime":2287.257,"body":"New government client."},{"startTime":2287.702,"endTime":2288.148,"body":"Okay."},{"startTime":2288.539,"endTime":2289.52,"body":"Under the fixed cost."},{"startTime":2289.739,"endTime":2289.957,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":2290.411,"endTime":2293.866,"body":"But you get to pick from a menu and you"},{"startTime":2290.411,"endTime":2293.866,"body":"can only pick A, B, or C and know you"},{"startTime":2293.866,"endTime":2297.566,"body":"can't customize it and know you can't"},{"startTime":2293.866,"endTime":2297.566,"body":"change it, and no, he won't tailor"},{"startTime":2297.566,"endTime":2300.807,"body":"it for your environment or whatever"},{"startTime":2297.566,"endTime":2300.807,"body":"we'll, we'll give you A or B or C,"},{"startTime":2301.08,"endTime":2304.134,"body":"because we've done that before, we know"},{"startTime":2301.08,"endTime":2304.134,"body":"exactly how long it takes to do it."},{"startTime":2304.28,"endTime":2308.907,"body":"My point is it's something that,"},{"startTime":2304.28,"endTime":2308.907,"body":"that we, that the entire complexity"},{"startTime":2308.961,"endTime":2311.416,"body":"of the software change is 100%."},{"startTime":2311.87,"endTime":2312.743,"body":"To me and my team."},{"startTime":2313.198,"endTime":2313.416,"body":"Okay."},{"startTime":2313.416,"endTime":2317.998,"body":"It, it basically is I can go pluck a"},{"startTime":2313.416,"endTime":2317.998,"body":"story outta my backlog, change a copy"},{"startTime":2317.998,"endTime":2322.052,"body":"it, clone it, , keep the story points or"},{"startTime":2317.998,"endTime":2322.052,"body":"whatever that are on it, and just spin"},{"startTime":2322.052,"endTime":2323.607,"body":"it off and my team does it again for you."},{"startTime":2323.861,"endTime":2326.616,"body":"If you tell me to do something"},{"startTime":2323.861,"endTime":2326.616,"body":"truly unique that none of my"},{"startTime":2326.616,"endTime":2327.707,"body":"team members have done before."},{"startTime":2327.743,"endTime":2331.425,"body":"So we have to learn it for the first"},{"startTime":2327.743,"endTime":2331.425,"body":"time unless you are willing to pay for"},{"startTime":2331.425,"endTime":2333.143,"body":"that learning to do it the first time."},{"startTime":2333.598,"endTime":2336.234,"body":"Separate from paying for"},{"startTime":2333.598,"endTime":2336.234,"body":"the software delivery."},{"startTime":2336.289,"endTime":2336.37,"body":"Yep."},{"startTime":2336.825,"endTime":2339.689,"body":"Unless you're willing to have some"},{"startTime":2336.825,"endTime":2339.689,"body":"kind of, I don't know, clauses in the"},{"startTime":2339.689,"endTime":2343.502,"body":"contract about training time versus"},{"startTime":2339.689,"endTime":2343.502,"body":"actual doing time I don't see how that"},{"startTime":2343.502,"endTime":2345.657,"body":"compatible with fixed cost contracts."},{"startTime":2346.111,"endTime":2348.748,"body":"That, yeah, those two"},{"startTime":2346.111,"endTime":2348.748,"body":"are almost incongruent."},{"startTime":2348.775,"endTime":2353.493,"body":"I mean, you're looking at doing"},{"startTime":2348.775,"endTime":2353.493,"body":"something that is a no known, right?"},{"startTime":2353.493,"endTime":2354.966,"body":"So you will do this by the state."},{"startTime":2355.102,"endTime":2359.148,"body":"We, we, we believe, and it's largely"},{"startTime":2355.102,"endTime":2359.148,"body":"a fixed fixed price contract with"},{"startTime":2359.148,"endTime":2361.225,"body":"that stage versus something that, Yes."},{"startTime":2361.68,"endTime":2363.698,"body":"You need to ideate over Right."},{"startTime":2363.698,"endTime":2366.289,"body":"And delve into this unknown area."},{"startTime":2366.38,"endTime":2369.489,"body":"And how does the providing"},{"startTime":2366.38,"endTime":2369.489,"body":"org get paid for that?"},{"startTime":2369.516,"endTime":2369.598,"body":"Mm-hmm."},{"startTime":2369.966,"endTime":2371.616,"body":", when you don't know the deliverable."},{"startTime":2371.889,"endTime":2376.27,"body":"So, couple things there is one is"},{"startTime":2371.889,"endTime":2376.27,"body":"if, if they, certainly in the case of"},{"startTime":2376.27,"endTime":2379.816,"body":"the government if they wanna pay for"},{"startTime":2376.27,"endTime":2379.816,"body":"some innovation, they can do that."},{"startTime":2379.843,"endTime":2379.848,"body":"right?"},{"startTime":2380.039,"endTime":2381.92,"body":"Say, go figure out how"},{"startTime":2380.039,"endTime":2381.92,"body":"to solve this problem."},{"startTime":2382.375,"endTime":2386.275,"body":"We're not looking for the solution"},{"startTime":2382.375,"endTime":2386.275,"body":"to the problem that needs to be"},{"startTime":2386.275,"endTime":2388.075,"body":"delivered by the end of this contract."},{"startTime":2388.075,"endTime":2388.511,"body":"That's fixed."},{"startTime":2388.511,"endTime":2388.566,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":2388.784,"endTime":2391.32,"body":"But we're looking for is a"},{"startTime":2388.784,"endTime":2391.32,"body":"prescription for a solution."},{"startTime":2391.325,"endTime":2394.184,"body":"Here's how it could be solved, here's"},{"startTime":2391.325,"endTime":2394.184,"body":"what we found, and then they can fund"},{"startTime":2394.189,"endTime":2396.62,"body":"another project, to actually deliver that."},{"startTime":2396.675,"endTime":2396.975,"body":"Right."},{"startTime":2397.248,"endTime":2397.848,"body":"That's okay."},{"startTime":2397.902,"endTime":2398.993,"body":"That's pretty rare as well."},{"startTime":2399.048,"endTime":2402.075,"body":"I think in the space world it's more"},{"startTime":2399.048,"endTime":2402.075,"body":"common than anywhere else probably."},{"startTime":2402.08,"endTime":2402.502,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":2402.502,"endTime":2402.684,"body":"Right."},{"startTime":2402.689,"endTime":2406.593,"body":"Yeah but also now of course, we're in"},{"startTime":2402.689,"endTime":2406.593,"body":"unique times, so it's also prevalent"},{"startTime":2406.593,"endTime":2410.534,"body":"in the in the public health space"},{"startTime":2406.593,"endTime":2410.534,"body":"where people are looking at taking old,"},{"startTime":2410.589,"endTime":2416.307,"body":"old formula that we had for antiviral"},{"startTime":2410.589,"endTime":2416.307,"body":"treatments and, and vaccinations"},{"startTime":2416.58,"endTime":2420.916,"body":"and seeing how they can be modified"},{"startTime":2416.58,"endTime":2420.916,"body":"for the here to for unknown viruses."},{"startTime":2420.966,"endTime":2423.884,"body":"So they're coming up with almost"},{"startTime":2420.966,"endTime":2423.884,"body":"like a Lego brick approach that says,"},{"startTime":2423.884,"endTime":2425.793,"body":"here, here's a bunch of Lego bricks."},{"startTime":2425.793,"endTime":2425.848,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":2425.902,"endTime":2429.957,"body":"Now let's look at a pattern based"},{"startTime":2425.902,"endTime":2429.957,"body":"on that, we'll arrange these so"},{"startTime":2429.957,"endTime":2432.466,"body":"that they can block certain protiens"},{"startTime":2429.957,"endTime":2432.466,"body":"or whatever, whatever that is."},{"startTime":2432.466,"endTime":2432.711,"body":"Right"},{"startTime":2433.12,"endTime":2436.639,"body":"that level of thinking doesn't happen"},{"startTime":2433.12,"endTime":2436.639,"body":"overnight, and it's usually funded"},{"startTime":2436.643,"endTime":2441.348,"body":"through contractors that the government"},{"startTime":2436.643,"endTime":2441.348,"body":"pays money to go figure out stuff, not"},{"startTime":2441.348,"endTime":2443.257,"body":"necessarily to deliver a solution yet."},{"startTime":2443.339,"endTime":2443.83,"body":"Yeah, Right."},{"startTime":2443.83,"endTime":2445.52,"body":"Of course, the long term"},{"startTime":2443.83,"endTime":2445.52,"body":"play for the people that are"},{"startTime":2445.52,"endTime":2447.757,"body":"providing the services is Yeah."},{"startTime":2447.757,"endTime":2451.439,"body":"When we do provide the, the ideas"},{"startTime":2447.757,"endTime":2451.439,"body":"for it, if the need arises, they"},{"startTime":2451.439,"endTime":2453.184,"body":"will contract us to deliver it."},{"startTime":2453.511,"endTime":2457.275,"body":"And that's where it becomes"},{"startTime":2453.511,"endTime":2457.275,"body":"lucrative but again, because in"},{"startTime":2457.275,"endTime":2459.92,"body":"this example, specifically because"},{"startTime":2457.275,"endTime":2459.92,"body":"it's the government, they cannot do"},{"startTime":2459.92,"endTime":2461.475,"body":"that with only one company, right?"},{"startTime":2461.502,"endTime":2461.557,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":2461.557,"endTime":2464.202,"body":"They have to do it with two or more"},{"startTime":2461.557,"endTime":2464.202,"body":"and I think that's true generally"},{"startTime":2464.202,"endTime":2465.675,"body":"in the regulated industries as well"},{"startTime":2466.084,"endTime":2470.248,"body":"anyway, where I was going with this"},{"startTime":2466.084,"endTime":2470.248,"body":"is fixed price plus plus, right?"},{"startTime":2470.639,"endTime":2473.584,"body":"Which is kind of fixed price"},{"startTime":2470.639,"endTime":2473.584,"body":"plus expenses, fixed price"},{"startTime":2473.584,"endTime":2475.057,"body":"plus this the other way around."},{"startTime":2475.384,"endTime":2476.857,"body":"Incentives or penalties."},{"startTime":2476.966,"endTime":2478.63,"body":"All the variations of fixed price."},{"startTime":2478.93,"endTime":2480.943,"body":"Yeah they get you to a"},{"startTime":2478.93,"endTime":2480.943,"body":"certain point, right?"},{"startTime":2480.948,"endTime":2485.234,"body":"Where there's more known than not"},{"startTime":2480.948,"endTime":2485.234,"body":"known, that's when you would sign"},{"startTime":2485.234,"endTime":2486.998,"body":"a fixed price cuz you are basical."},{"startTime":2487.452,"endTime":2489.907,"body":"Mitigating your risk of not losing money."},{"startTime":2490.052,"endTime":2492.752,"body":"The other side we talked about, a"},{"startTime":2490.052,"endTime":2492.752,"body":"little bit about the time and materials."},{"startTime":2493.025,"endTime":2497.061,"body":"You're really not paid to"},{"startTime":2493.025,"endTime":2497.061,"body":"deliver a tangible product."},{"startTime":2497.516,"endTime":2501.17,"body":"Historically you've been paid"},{"startTime":2497.516,"endTime":2501.17,"body":"to deliver a bunch of expertise"},{"startTime":2501.507,"endTime":2503.825,"body":"services, brain power, essentially."},{"startTime":2503.825,"endTime":2505.598,"body":"And that's the tnm, Right."},{"startTime":2505.68,"endTime":2508.943,"body":"Where I see it's changing"},{"startTime":2505.68,"endTime":2508.943,"body":"these days is, TNM Plus."},{"startTime":2508.943,"endTime":2513.689,"body":"Plus, if you like, where people say, Well"},{"startTime":2508.943,"endTime":2513.689,"body":"provide these, but at the same time, if"},{"startTime":2513.689,"endTime":2515.68,"body":"we do these other things, it will pay us."},{"startTime":2515.68,"endTime":2518.325,"body":"But if we don't, you'll still"},{"startTime":2515.68,"endTime":2518.325,"body":"pay us what we said we would."},{"startTime":2518.38,"endTime":2519.934,"body":"That's the line that I mentioned."},{"startTime":2519.934,"endTime":2520.07,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":2520.316,"endTime":2522.198,"body":"Put things below the line"},{"startTime":2520.316,"endTime":2522.198,"body":"versus above the line."},{"startTime":2522.252,"endTime":2526.052,"body":"Yeah interesting concept, I think cuz"},{"startTime":2522.252,"endTime":2526.052,"body":"there's no equivalent to the other side,"},{"startTime":2526.052,"endTime":2529.38,"body":"meaning we said we would do these, we"},{"startTime":2526.052,"endTime":2529.38,"body":"also said we might do these and you pay"},{"startTime":2529.38,"endTime":2530.961,"body":"us, but if we don't, there's penalties."},{"startTime":2531.152,"endTime":2532.08,"body":"I haven't seen that."},{"startTime":2532.38,"endTime":2535.434,"body":"I get the idea of time materials"},{"startTime":2532.38,"endTime":2535.434,"body":"saying, Hey, here's our, here's what"},{"startTime":2535.439,"endTime":2536.798,"body":"we originally promised we're gonna do."},{"startTime":2537.18,"endTime":2539.525,"body":"And then if we go over and above"},{"startTime":2537.18,"endTime":2539.525,"body":"like these stretch goals, right?"},{"startTime":2539.525,"endTime":2539.907,"body":"Yeah, yeah, yeah."},{"startTime":2539.911,"endTime":2542.17,"body":"We go over and above, then maybe"},{"startTime":2539.911,"endTime":2542.17,"body":"we get a little more money."},{"startTime":2542.334,"endTime":2545.607,"body":"And even in the banner of like a"},{"startTime":2542.334,"endTime":2545.607,"body":"government agency where, well, we only"},{"startTime":2545.607,"endTime":2549.361,"body":"have we're only funded to $5 million"},{"startTime":2545.607,"endTime":2549.361,"body":"or whatever, or 1 million whatever."},{"startTime":2549.689,"endTime":2549.961,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":2550.07,"endTime":2552.225,"body":"A hundred thousand dollars doesn't"},{"startTime":2550.07,"endTime":2552.225,"body":"matter how much it's, we're only"},{"startTime":2552.225,"endTime":2555.289,"body":"funded to a hundred thousand dollars"},{"startTime":2552.225,"endTime":2555.289,"body":"in a year so we'll, we'll give you"},{"startTime":2555.289,"endTime":2558.675,"body":"50 K to do this contract work for us."},{"startTime":2559.13,"endTime":2562.075,"body":"And, but if you hit this other"},{"startTime":2559.13,"endTime":2562.075,"body":"deliverable, we will potentially give"},{"startTime":2562.075,"endTime":2565.902,"body":"you an extra 20 k and maybe another 20"},{"startTime":2562.075,"endTime":2565.902,"body":"on top of that for this other stretch"},{"startTime":2565.902,"endTime":2567.43,"body":"goal that it's very unlikely you'll meet."},{"startTime":2567.566,"endTime":2571.83,"body":"Why I'm having such difficulty with this"},{"startTime":2567.566,"endTime":2571.83,"body":"is at the end of every sprint the constant"},{"startTime":2571.83,"endTime":2577.648,"body":"shifting of goal posts would be concerning"},{"startTime":2571.83,"endTime":2577.648,"body":"to the, to the contract person in this,"},{"startTime":2577.811,"endTime":2580.648,"body":"I, I say to the contract person, but"},{"startTime":2577.811,"endTime":2580.648,"body":"I'm also like, while I'm talking about"},{"startTime":2580.648,"endTime":2584.457,"body":"it, I'm also like quietly undermining"},{"startTime":2580.648,"endTime":2584.457,"body":"in my own head what I'm saying."},{"startTime":2584.457,"endTime":2586.611,"body":"Cause I'm saying cuz the"},{"startTime":2584.457,"endTime":2586.611,"body":"product manager in that case,"},{"startTime":2586.748,"endTime":2588.139,"body":"they're your go-to person Yeah."},{"startTime":2588.166,"endTime":2590.075,"body":"To make sure that like a Why"},{"startTime":2588.166,"endTime":2590.075,"body":"is a customer asking it for"},{"startTime":2590.075,"endTime":2591.357,"body":"wildly different things Yeah."},{"startTime":2591.602,"endTime":2594.766,"body":"Than you, the product manager"},{"startTime":2591.602,"endTime":2594.766,"body":"are delivering and planning"},{"startTime":2594.911,"endTime":2596.602,"body":"you really should be together."},{"startTime":2596.793,"endTime":2599.275,"body":"And I, the contract person"},{"startTime":2596.793,"endTime":2599.275,"body":"shouldn't really be involved."},{"startTime":2599.275,"endTime":2602.52,"body":"Like, the whole reason we're doing"},{"startTime":2599.275,"endTime":2602.52,"body":"agile development is so I, the contract"},{"startTime":2602.52,"endTime":2605.439,"body":"person don't have to get in and"},{"startTime":2602.52,"endTime":2605.439,"body":"start a bunch of wars and fires and"},{"startTime":2605.439,"endTime":2607.502,"body":"stuff because, Completely against."},{"startTime":2607.502,"endTime":2611.12,"body":"So, so like I'm kind of bringing it up to"},{"startTime":2607.502,"endTime":2611.12,"body":"say like, Yeah contract people are weird."},{"startTime":2611.148,"endTime":2611.911,"body":"That's what I'm saying with this."},{"startTime":2611.911,"endTime":2613.711,"body":"Like, you never know where"},{"startTime":2611.911,"endTime":2613.711,"body":"they're gonna drop in and be"},{"startTime":2613.711,"endTime":2614.884,"body":"like, That's not in the contract."},{"startTime":2614.966,"endTime":2617.12,"body":"Well, the customer says they"},{"startTime":2614.966,"endTime":2617.12,"body":"don't care about that anymore."},{"startTime":2617.23,"endTime":2617.42,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":2617.42,"endTime":2619.684,"body":"But this in the contract,"},{"startTime":2617.42,"endTime":2619.684,"body":"we gotta gotta do it."},{"startTime":2619.875,"endTime":2620.939,"body":"I mean, that's a real conversation."},{"startTime":2620.966,"endTime":2621.102,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":2621.402,"endTime":2625.666,"body":"None of that's in the contract and we're"},{"startTime":2621.402,"endTime":2625.666,"body":"on fixed costs, so Everything you're"},{"startTime":2625.666,"endTime":2626.839,"body":"doing doesn't count to the contract."},{"startTime":2626.839,"endTime":2627.002,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":2627.002,"endTime":2628.011,"body":"But it's what the customer wants."},{"startTime":2628.111,"endTime":2629.502,"body":"It, it is a difficult calculus."},{"startTime":2629.502,"endTime":2632.748,"body":"I think for most organizations it's"},{"startTime":2629.502,"endTime":2632.748,"body":"gonna be a learning lesson, Right."},{"startTime":2632.748,"endTime":2637.048,"body":"If they haven't worked in this way"},{"startTime":2632.748,"endTime":2637.048,"body":"just to say, let's try, let's try with"},{"startTime":2637.048,"endTime":2639.83,"body":"what, Depending on where they're at,"},{"startTime":2637.048,"endTime":2639.83,"body":"If they're working in agile, Yeah."},{"startTime":2639.83,"endTime":2643.857,"body":"Maybe they can try the"},{"startTime":2639.83,"endTime":2643.857,"body":"T\u0026M model first and."},{"startTime":2644.311,"endTime":2646.548,"body":"I think most people that are"},{"startTime":2644.311,"endTime":2646.548,"body":"doing software development are"},{"startTime":2646.548,"endTime":2649.23,"body":"already doing that cuz you're"},{"startTime":2646.548,"endTime":2649.23,"body":"outsourcing to offshore Right."},{"startTime":2649.234,"endTime":2654.202,"body":"Developers and then try experimenting"},{"startTime":2649.234,"endTime":2654.202,"body":"with the plus plus piece of it, which is"},{"startTime":2654.657,"endTime":2658.907,"body":"these are smart developers, they cost less"},{"startTime":2654.657,"endTime":2658.907,"body":"per hour than what we can get locally."},{"startTime":2658.907,"endTime":2658.989,"body":"Mm-hmm."},{"startTime":2659.234,"endTime":2660.38,"body":", which is the whole reason"},{"startTime":2659.234,"endTime":2660.38,"body":"why we're doing this."},{"startTime":2660.38,"endTime":2661.298,"body":"It's all economics."},{"startTime":2661.334,"endTime":2665.861,"body":"So how about we entice them, the, the"},{"startTime":2661.334,"endTime":2665.861,"body":"offshore developers, the partners to say"},{"startTime":2666.316,"endTime":2668.361,"body":"if you can also do these things Yeah."},{"startTime":2668.716,"endTime":2670.461,"body":"Then correspondingly we'll pay you more."},{"startTime":2670.543,"endTime":2670.761,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":2670.816,"endTime":2673.952,"body":"You know, their company so"},{"startTime":2670.816,"endTime":2673.952,"body":"I think the skill lies in,"},{"startTime":2673.957,"endTime":2675.507,"body":"in seeing the possibilities."},{"startTime":2675.534,"endTime":2678.634,"body":"And then the biggest thing is,"},{"startTime":2675.534,"endTime":2678.634,"body":"just discussions, negotiation."},{"startTime":2678.77,"endTime":2680.889,"body":"Ah and see what we can"},{"startTime":2678.77,"endTime":2680.889,"body":"put into the contract."},{"startTime":2680.98,"endTime":2681.116,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":2681.17,"endTime":2682.234,"body":"All of that done."},{"startTime":2682.689,"endTime":2687.766,"body":"It is still possible for both parties"},{"startTime":2682.689,"endTime":2687.766,"body":"to go over and beyond that in the"},{"startTime":2687.77,"endTime":2690.657,"body":"spirit of forming a, a good solid."},{"startTime":2691.111,"endTime":2692.148,"body":"Commercial partnership."},{"startTime":2692.311,"endTime":2696.202,"body":"Yeah, it is definitely that"},{"startTime":2692.311,"endTime":2696.202,"body":"you don't have to be working"},{"startTime":2696.202,"endTime":2697.675,"body":"to the letter of the contract."},{"startTime":2697.757,"endTime":2700.33,"body":"it's amazing that organizations"},{"startTime":2697.757,"endTime":2700.33,"body":"do software development this way."},{"startTime":2700.784,"endTime":2704.53,"body":"The reason I say that is because the"},{"startTime":2700.784,"endTime":2704.53,"body":"people that I think of as wanting the"},{"startTime":2704.53,"endTime":2709.184,"body":"most control in your organization are the"},{"startTime":2704.53,"endTime":2709.184,"body":"people pushing for this fixed cost stuff,"},{"startTime":2709.566,"endTime":2713.002,"body":"which only turns around and sabotages"},{"startTime":2709.566,"endTime":2713.002,"body":"them when they're doing it on a software"},{"startTime":2713.002,"endTime":2717.954,"body":"development project where you can only"},{"startTime":2713.002,"endTime":2717.954,"body":"execute successfully on fixed cost"},{"startTime":2718.384,"endTime":2722.13,"body":"contracts when the effort is known to you."},{"startTime":2722.348,"endTime":2727.111,"body":"And you can basically pick your margin,"},{"startTime":2722.348,"endTime":2727.111,"body":"so I know that my development team costs"},{"startTime":2727.116,"endTime":2732.884,"body":"half a million dollars for a year, and"},{"startTime":2727.116,"endTime":2732.884,"body":"I know that I can execute on items one,"},{"startTime":2732.884,"endTime":2736.794,"body":"two, and three in this contract, so"},{"startTime":2732.884,"endTime":2736.794,"body":"put items one, two, and three in there."},{"startTime":2736.794,"endTime":2738.075,"body":"I'll strike out items four and five."},{"startTime":2738.075,"endTime":2741.494,"body":"Four and five because we can't do it"},{"startTime":2738.075,"endTime":2741.494,"body":"And, uh if we turn out that we can do it,"},{"startTime":2741.694,"endTime":2743.134,"body":"we'll all look like heroes or whatever I,"},{"startTime":2743.134,"endTime":2744.389,"body":"I know what my costs are."},{"startTime":2744.771,"endTime":2746.598,"body":"I know I can do one, two, and"},{"startTime":2744.771,"endTime":2746.598,"body":"three because I did it for"},{"startTime":2746.598,"endTime":2747.716,"body":"some other customer last year."},{"startTime":2747.716,"endTime":2747.907,"body":"Right."},{"startTime":2748.362,"endTime":2749.207,"body":"Analogous, right?"},{"startTime":2749.253,"endTime":2749.334,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":2749.334,"endTime":2752.989,"body":"I was just thinking about some of"},{"startTime":2749.334,"endTime":2752.989,"body":"the contractors for real, right out"},{"startTime":2752.994,"endTime":2755.871,"body":"there that work for the government"},{"startTime":2752.994,"endTime":2755.871,"body":"as part of a couple of them."},{"startTime":2755.925,"endTime":2760.207,"body":"And I can tell you it is nerve"},{"startTime":2755.925,"endTime":2760.207,"body":"wrecking to work for a contracting"},{"startTime":2760.207,"endTime":2765.053,"body":"organization because when the contract"},{"startTime":2760.207,"endTime":2765.053,"body":"is signed, everybody's happy that we"},{"startTime":2765.053,"endTime":2766.634,"body":"used to Blair out, little claxons."},{"startTime":2766.698,"endTime":2766.916,"body":"Mm-hmm."},{"startTime":2766.994,"endTime":2767.78,"body":"the air horns."},{"startTime":2768.08,"endTime":2769.116,"body":"We see that everybody move."},{"startTime":2769.116,"endTime":2769.334,"body":"Yep."},{"startTime":2769.789,"endTime":2773.607,"body":"And, and people just get up and"},{"startTime":2769.789,"endTime":2773.607,"body":"clap and, oh, well here's the order."},{"startTime":2773.844,"endTime":2774.498,"body":"That was great."},{"startTime":2774.498,"endTime":2775.616,"body":"Like we didn't have every day."},{"startTime":2775.616,"endTime":2777.198,"body":"Of course when it did"},{"startTime":2775.616,"endTime":2777.198,"body":"happen, it was great."},{"startTime":2777.198,"endTime":2780.416,"body":"But the problem was the flip side,"},{"startTime":2777.198,"endTime":2780.416,"body":"like how we gonna deliver these?"},{"startTime":2780.421,"endTime":2780.471,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":2780.689,"endTime":2782.325,"body":"And being in the delivery teams."},{"startTime":2782.498,"endTime":2784.216,"body":"I was like, Yeah, we got an order."},{"startTime":2784.598,"endTime":2786.671,"body":"Who do we have to bring to bear on this?"},{"startTime":2786.671,"endTime":2787.516,"body":"Mm-hmm."},{"startTime":2787.567,"endTime":2792.476,"body":"the capability side of the provider"},{"startTime":2787.567,"endTime":2792.476,"body":"org is a, to me at least, it's a,"},{"startTime":2792.476,"endTime":2793.84,"body":"it's a question mark in my mind."},{"startTime":2793.84,"endTime":2794.822,"body":"There's something to think about."},{"startTime":2795.276,"endTime":2800.358,"body":"If you're a provider org, would you"},{"startTime":2795.276,"endTime":2800.358,"body":"hide that from your prospects, or"},{"startTime":2800.358,"endTime":2803.122,"body":"would you be open and say, Look, we"},{"startTime":2800.358,"endTime":2803.122,"body":"can only give you this much mm-hmm."},{"startTime":2803.454,"endTime":2803.631,"body":", right?"},{"startTime":2803.931,"endTime":2807.776,"body":"Or would you say, Well, we're great,"},{"startTime":2803.931,"endTime":2807.776,"body":"we're a 200 person organization, and"},{"startTime":2807.776,"endTime":2809.44,"body":"you're counting everybody in the company."},{"startTime":2809.522,"endTime":2809.604,"body":"Mm-hmm."},{"startTime":2809.967,"endTime":2812.204,"body":"Not, not necessarily people"},{"startTime":2809.967,"endTime":2812.204,"body":"that can develop the solution."},{"startTime":2812.204,"endTime":2813.485,"body":"So I don't know."},{"startTime":2813.558,"endTime":2816.876,"body":"I think the onus is on both sides"},{"startTime":2813.558,"endTime":2816.876,"body":"to do their homework, right and"},{"startTime":2816.876,"endTime":2819.513,"body":"then try and, and try and minimize"},{"startTime":2816.876,"endTime":2819.513,"body":"in the spirit of agile at least,"},{"startTime":2819.513,"endTime":2820.831,"body":"try to minimize the legal-ese."},{"startTime":2820.849,"endTime":2825.285,"body":"Because every time you have a legal"},{"startTime":2820.849,"endTime":2825.285,"body":"clause of statement in your, SOW"},{"startTime":2825.74,"endTime":2827.749,"body":"it goes against forming trust."},{"startTime":2827.776,"endTime":2828.076,"body":"Right."},{"startTime":2828.076,"endTime":2832.249,"body":"And camaraderies like, if I do this, it"},{"startTime":2828.076,"endTime":2832.249,"body":"says, So in the contract, I was planning"},{"startTime":2832.249,"endTime":2833.913,"body":"on doing this, but I'm not gonna now."},{"startTime":2833.94,"endTime":2833.994,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":2833.994,"endTime":2835.467,"body":"Because I might get in trouble."},{"startTime":2835.522,"endTime":2835.685,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":2836.094,"endTime":2840.944,"body":"That is something that I think we don't"},{"startTime":2836.094,"endTime":2840.944,"body":"think enough about that because day to"},{"startTime":2840.949,"endTime":2844.508,"body":"day our audience ourselves, I, I I would"},{"startTime":2840.949,"endTime":2844.508,"body":"say we're not really involved with that."},{"startTime":2844.508,"endTime":2848.572,"body":"It's your biz dev guys and your"},{"startTime":2844.508,"endTime":2848.572,"body":"sales people that are involved but I"},{"startTime":2848.572,"endTime":2850.522,"body":"think we can be influencers for sure."},{"startTime":2850.522,"endTime":2854.294,"body":"You may not be involved in the"},{"startTime":2850.522,"endTime":2854.294,"body":"formulation of a contract or anything"},{"startTime":2854.299,"endTime":2858.758,"body":"like that or negotiation, but at a very"},{"startTime":2854.299,"endTime":2858.758,"body":"minimum, find out, find out what kind"},{"startTime":2858.758,"endTime":2863.367,"body":"of contract you are working under, and"},{"startTime":2858.758,"endTime":2863.367,"body":"then see if your day-to-day behaviors"},{"startTime":2863.367,"endTime":2865.14,"body":"aligned with fulfilling the contract."},{"startTime":2865.594,"endTime":2866.985,"body":"What's the pig and chicken thing?"},{"startTime":2866.985,"endTime":2869.385,"body":"Like you might not be"},{"startTime":2866.985,"endTime":2869.385,"body":"involved, but you're committed."},{"startTime":2869.385,"endTime":2869.767,"body":"Committed."},{"startTime":2870.149,"endTime":2872.813,"body":"Hey, listen let us know what you"},{"startTime":2870.149,"endTime":2872.813,"body":"think of this one plus any other"},{"startTime":2872.813,"endTime":2874.531,"body":"topics you'd like us to delve into."},{"startTime":2874.64,"endTime":2874.994,"body":"That's right."},{"startTime":2875.049,"endTime":2877.285,"body":"And make sure we go ahead"},{"startTime":2875.049,"endTime":2877.285,"body":"and like our podcast."},{"startTime":2877.285,"endTime":2879.634,"body":"Subscribe Most people put the"},{"startTime":2877.285,"endTime":2879.634,"body":"subscribe thing in weird places,"},{"startTime":2879.634,"endTime":2880.561,"body":"but I put it right in the middle."},{"startTime":2880.649,"endTime":2881.249,"body":"And why not?"},{"startTime":2881.576,"endTime":2882.013,"body":"Why not?"}]}