{"version":"1.0.0","segments":[{"startTime":0.045,"endTime":0.836,"body":"Whoa."},{"startTime":1.109,"endTime":1.763,"body":"What do you know?"},{"startTime":1.763,"endTime":4.272,"body":"We're talking today about the how"},{"startTime":1.763,"endTime":4.272,"body":"and the what, what does that mean?"},{"startTime":4.272,"endTime":4.818,"body":"How and the what?"},{"startTime":4.818,"endTime":5.936,"body":"Okay, I'll explain what that means."},{"startTime":6.081,"endTime":9.565,"body":"In a normal organization, the"},{"startTime":6.081,"endTime":9.565,"body":"product people bring the what to"},{"startTime":9.565,"endTime":13.875,"body":"the teams, and the teams bring the"},{"startTime":9.565,"endTime":13.875,"body":"how to the product people to the"},{"startTime":13.875,"endTime":14.884,"body":"product, people to the product."},{"startTime":14.911,"endTime":15.62,"body":"They bring it to the product."},{"startTime":15.811,"endTime":19.615,"body":"So the teams decide how they're gonna"},{"startTime":15.811,"endTime":19.615,"body":"implement what product wants, product"},{"startTime":19.934,"endTime":25.765,"body":"comes to the teams and brings them"},{"startTime":19.934,"endTime":25.765,"body":"what the business needs worked on next."},{"startTime":26.011,"endTime":31.084,"body":"And should also know at the same time"},{"startTime":26.011,"endTime":31.084,"body":"why they're bringing that as well."},{"startTime":31.084,"endTime":35.393,"body":"So, the product people bring the what, but"},{"startTime":31.084,"endTime":35.393,"body":"they're also informed as to the why to the"},{"startTime":35.393,"endTime":37.102,"body":"larger business organization around 'em."},{"startTime":37.147,"endTime":40.065,"body":"And then the team tells 'em, okay,"},{"startTime":37.147,"endTime":40.065,"body":"based on what you brought, this"},{"startTime":40.065,"endTime":40.911,"body":"is how we're gonna implement it."},{"startTime":41.075,"endTime":43.584,"body":"So there's two wheels in the company."},{"startTime":43.693,"endTime":45.029,"body":"I'm trying not to do this on camera."},{"startTime":46.093,"endTime":50.184,"body":"So what I wanted to talk about"},{"startTime":46.093,"endTime":50.184,"body":"today was the what and the how."},{"startTime":50.293,"endTime":51.384,"body":"It's not really what versus how."},{"startTime":51.384,"endTime":53.429,"body":"It's just the what and the how together."},{"startTime":53.566,"endTime":57.385,"body":"and it's interesting you said the"},{"startTime":53.566,"endTime":57.385,"body":"product also brings the why mm-hmm."},{"startTime":57.875,"endTime":62.957,"body":", because without that, the teams are"},{"startTime":57.875,"endTime":62.957,"body":"limited in their spectrum of imagination."},{"startTime":62.957,"endTime":66.775,"body":"You know, the, there's ways to come up"},{"startTime":62.957,"endTime":66.775,"body":"with solutions if you knew why you had to"},{"startTime":66.775,"endTime":68.694,"body":"do something so it's important to do that."},{"startTime":68.694,"endTime":73.412,"body":"I wonder if most organizations bring"},{"startTime":68.694,"endTime":73.412,"body":"the why as well or they just, the what?"},{"startTime":73.416,"endTime":75.935,"body":"That's why I figured we'd talk, we"},{"startTime":73.416,"endTime":75.935,"body":"start talking about this cuz different"},{"startTime":75.935,"endTime":78.771,"body":"people listening to this will be"},{"startTime":75.935,"endTime":78.771,"body":"in different size organizations."},{"startTime":78.907,"endTime":78.989,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":79.016,"endTime":80.653,"body":"So I figure we'll step"},{"startTime":79.016,"endTime":80.653,"body":"through this conversation."},{"startTime":80.653,"endTime":84.171,"body":"We'll try to move quickly through the, how"},{"startTime":80.653,"endTime":84.171,"body":"this applies at different size companies."},{"startTime":84.171,"endTime":87.089,"body":"So if you've seen this at different"},{"startTime":84.171,"endTime":87.089,"body":"size companies, it look, it's"},{"startTime":87.089,"endTime":88.098,"body":"gonna look a little different."},{"startTime":88.385,"endTime":90.757,"body":"It's gonna look a little different"},{"startTime":88.385,"endTime":90.757,"body":"if it's functioning properly."},{"startTime":90.921,"endTime":93.675,"body":"And also if it's dysfunctional,"},{"startTime":90.921,"endTime":93.675,"body":"it's gonna look a little different."},{"startTime":94.003,"endTime":94.194,"body":"Right?"},{"startTime":94.194,"endTime":94.712,"body":"Very different."},{"startTime":94.875,"endTime":98.685,"body":"So in my experience at a, at the"},{"startTime":94.875,"endTime":98.685,"body":"smallest of companies, , small companies,"},{"startTime":98.685,"endTime":100.403,"body":"let's say like 20 people startups."},{"startTime":100.403,"endTime":101.021,"body":"Startups, yeah."},{"startTime":101.021,"endTime":101.239,"body":"Startups."},{"startTime":101.239,"endTime":107.385,"body":"Yeah most of the what will come"},{"startTime":101.239,"endTime":107.385,"body":"probably come from your ceo or if"},{"startTime":107.385,"endTime":110.194,"body":"you're lucky enough to have a product"},{"startTime":107.385,"endTime":110.194,"body":"person early with the startup,"},{"startTime":110.194,"endTime":111.612,"body":"it'll come directly from them."},{"startTime":112.075,"endTime":114.83,"body":"It'll, basically, what I'm saying is"},{"startTime":112.075,"endTime":114.83,"body":"it'll, it'll seem to all come from"},{"startTime":114.83,"endTime":118.848,"body":"one person who, who either will be a"},{"startTime":114.83,"endTime":118.848,"body":"product person, but if your company"},{"startTime":118.848,"endTime":121.766,"body":"doesn't have a product person, it will"},{"startTime":118.848,"endTime":121.766,"body":"likely be a founder of the company."},{"startTime":122.175,"endTime":122.475,"body":"Right."},{"startTime":122.53,"endTime":123.648,"body":"An entrepreneur perhaps."},{"startTime":123.648,"endTime":123.866,"body":"Right?"},{"startTime":123.866,"endTime":123.921,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":123.948,"endTime":124.93,"body":"So, yes, I agree."},{"startTime":125.257,"endTime":126.157,"body":"This is what we're building."},{"startTime":126.157,"endTime":129.366,"body":"This is what my company is all about"},{"startTime":126.157,"endTime":129.366,"body":"and maybe he can even, or he can even"},{"startTime":129.366,"endTime":133.794,"body":"articulate the, the why um, but you're"},{"startTime":129.366,"endTime":133.794,"body":"unlikely, I would say, at that scale"},{"startTime":133.821,"endTime":136.439,"body":"to, to have product roles just yet."},{"startTime":136.521,"endTime":139.821,"body":"Well, you'll, I mean, you'll have"},{"startTime":136.521,"endTime":139.821,"body":"product roles, but they, the people"},{"startTime":140.066,"endTime":142.903,"body":"that are in positions may not, I"},{"startTime":140.066,"endTime":142.903,"body":"mean, they'll be named literally"},{"startTime":142.903,"endTime":143.803,"body":"whatever they want to be named."},{"startTime":143.807,"endTime":143.857,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":143.857,"endTime":144.403,"body":"Sales roles."},{"startTime":144.439,"endTime":145.785,"body":"Yeah they, you could, yeah."},{"startTime":146.112,"endTime":149.303,"body":"Well, if you understand what, what"},{"startTime":146.112,"endTime":149.303,"body":"modern product is about, you'll be able"},{"startTime":149.303,"endTime":153.385,"body":"to understand the, the founders that"},{"startTime":149.303,"endTime":153.385,"body":"are playing the role of product in the"},{"startTime":153.385,"endTime":156.248,"body":"organization, you because they will"},{"startTime":153.385,"endTime":156.248,"body":"be the people who are subject matter"},{"startTime":156.248,"endTime":159.93,"body":"experts of the business domain, where the"},{"startTime":156.248,"endTime":159.93,"body":"problem you're trying to solve exists?"},{"startTime":159.93,"endTime":160.639,"body":"That's what I'm trying to say."},{"startTime":160.857,"endTime":161.021,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":161.212,"endTime":162.439,"body":"You know, and, and you should be."},{"startTime":162.439,"endTime":166.885,"body":"And you know, basically they're, they're"},{"startTime":162.439,"endTime":166.885,"body":"a, a, a, a bottomless, bottomless bid"},{"startTime":167.407,"endTime":171.898,"body":". They're, they're, they're an endless"},{"startTime":167.407,"endTime":171.898,"body":"fountain of facts and expertise about"},{"startTime":172.116,"endTime":175.716,"body":"the problem that those users, that"},{"startTime":172.116,"endTime":175.716,"body":"you're building stuff for whatever,"},{"startTime":175.716,"endTime":180.48,"body":"whatever you're servicing they're,"},{"startTime":175.716,"endTime":180.48,"body":"they're uh, an, an endless source of, I'm"},{"startTime":180.48,"endTime":181.553,"body":"trying not to say bottomless pit again."},{"startTime":181.58,"endTime":184.062,"body":"Cause , that's, it doesn't"},{"startTime":181.58,"endTime":184.062,"body":"sound right at all."},{"startTime":184.562,"endTime":187.207,"body":"they can answer any question they're"},{"startTime":184.562,"endTime":187.207,"body":"complete experts at, whatever the"},{"startTime":187.207,"endTime":188.462,"body":"area is that you're operating in."},{"startTime":188.598,"endTime":189.144,"body":"Yeah, for sure."},{"startTime":189.148,"endTime":192.58,"body":"They'll have plenty of ideas,"},{"startTime":189.148,"endTime":192.58,"body":"opinions maybe some facts."},{"startTime":192.907,"endTime":195.662,"body":"I, I think what I'm saying is"},{"startTime":192.907,"endTime":195.662,"body":"the, when you have that as your"},{"startTime":195.662,"endTime":198.635,"body":"source of facts in quotes mm-hmm."},{"startTime":198.771,"endTime":202.916,"body":"you really need to kind of validate them"},{"startTime":198.771,"endTime":202.916,"body":"cuz they may have a colored opinion on"},{"startTime":203.053,"endTime":204.471,"body":"what they're trying to solve and why."},{"startTime":204.475,"endTime":205.789,"body":"Yeah, yeah like there's a problem."},{"startTime":205.98,"endTime":208.68,"body":"Well, sometimes what happens is"},{"startTime":205.98,"endTime":208.68,"body":"they have a solution in mind first."},{"startTime":208.707,"endTime":208.844,"body":"Mm-hmm."},{"startTime":209.144,"endTime":212.471,"body":", this is what my company's all about,"},{"startTime":209.144,"endTime":212.471,"body":"therefore, I'm gonna come up with problems"},{"startTime":212.471,"endTime":213.916,"body":"that can be solved with this solution."},{"startTime":213.916,"endTime":214.216,"body":"Right."},{"startTime":214.516,"endTime":215.553,"body":"So you need to vet those."},{"startTime":215.553,"endTime":218.062,"body":"You need to vet the problem"},{"startTime":215.553,"endTime":218.062,"body":"statements, the pain points."},{"startTime":218.062,"endTime":219.698,"body":"So who are the paying customers, right?"},{"startTime":219.78,"endTime":219.889,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":220.162,"endTime":220.325,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":220.325,"endTime":222.862,"body":"Now you're getting back into like"},{"startTime":220.325,"endTime":222.862,"body":"the, the podcast I want to have with"},{"startTime":222.862,"endTime":224.962,"body":"Tricia, where we're talking about"},{"startTime":222.862,"endTime":224.962,"body":"being the first product owner at the"},{"startTime":224.962,"endTime":227.58,"body":"company because the, the first product"},{"startTime":224.962,"endTime":227.58,"body":"owner at the company you'll, you'll"},{"startTime":227.58,"endTime":228.944,"body":"deal with this with the founder."},{"startTime":228.944,"endTime":232.316,"body":"You'll deal with, um they're the"},{"startTime":228.944,"endTime":232.316,"body":"business expert and you likely are not."},{"startTime":233.025,"endTime":233.244,"body":"Okay?"},{"startTime":233.462,"endTime":235.653,"body":"So you'll deal with there'll be"},{"startTime":233.462,"endTime":235.653,"body":"a certain part of your time that"},{"startTime":235.653,"endTime":238.13,"body":"is spent building credibility."},{"startTime":239.057,"endTime":242.221,"body":"I in that, hey hey, trust me,"},{"startTime":239.057,"endTime":242.221,"body":"I can deal with the problem."},{"startTime":242.412,"endTime":242.712,"body":"You know what I mean?"},{"startTime":242.712,"endTime":246.775,"body":"You've delegated to me some responsibility"},{"startTime":242.712,"endTime":246.775,"body":"and now I've gotta prove that I can"},{"startTime":246.775,"endTime":249.694,"body":"handle the responsibility where you"},{"startTime":246.775,"endTime":249.694,"body":"can let go and you're not coming to"},{"startTime":249.694,"endTime":251.739,"body":"all my refinements and you're not"},{"startTime":249.694,"endTime":251.739,"body":"coming to all, you know what I mean?"},{"startTime":251.739,"endTime":252.23,"body":"That kind of stuff."},{"startTime":252.23,"endTime":255.503,"body":"Like, hey, come to the demo"},{"startTime":252.23,"endTime":255.503,"body":"occasionally, pop into a refinement"},{"startTime":255.503,"endTime":258.121,"body":"where we need you to answer"},{"startTime":255.503,"endTime":258.121,"body":"questions or we need your expertise."},{"startTime":258.203,"endTime":261.112,"body":"And then go and do whatever else"},{"startTime":258.203,"endTime":261.112,"body":"you're doing in the business"},{"startTime":261.112,"endTime":262.294,"body":"and go go run a good business."},{"startTime":262.457,"endTime":264.848,"body":"We got the product side of it"},{"startTime":262.457,"endTime":264.848,"body":"until they trust you to do that."},{"startTime":265.175,"endTime":268.394,"body":"Um, there's a certain amount of,"},{"startTime":265.175,"endTime":268.394,"body":"of, of work that goes into that."},{"startTime":268.398,"endTime":270.93,"body":"That's all that stuff is"},{"startTime":268.398,"endTime":270.93,"body":"a whole separate podcast."},{"startTime":270.93,"endTime":274.494,"body":"It's all, it's a, it's a special"},{"startTime":270.93,"endTime":274.494,"body":"skill set it's a lot of empathy a lot"},{"startTime":274.494,"endTime":277.694,"body":"of like quick learning and, and, and"},{"startTime":274.494,"endTime":277.694,"body":"experiments and stuff like that, that"},{"startTime":278.212,"endTime":280.266,"body":"I'm sure will eventually talk about..."},{"startTime":280.266,"endTime":280.83,"body":"Tricia..."},{"startTime":281.539,"endTime":281.939,"body":"maybe."},{"startTime":282.839,"endTime":283.516,"body":"Please come back!"},{"startTime":284.007,"endTime":285.535,"body":"so small company, right?"},{"startTime":285.535,"endTime":287.662,"body":"You have the two sides"},{"startTime":285.535,"endTime":287.662,"body":"that we talked about."},{"startTime":288.316,"endTime":290.416,"body":"The what, hopefully the why as well."},{"startTime":290.421,"endTime":290.507,"body":"Mm-hmm."},{"startTime":290.58,"endTime":291.262,"body":". And then the how."},{"startTime":292.189,"endTime":295.462,"body":"So what are some of the issues"},{"startTime":292.189,"endTime":295.462,"body":"there that we can dive into here?"},{"startTime":295.462,"endTime":295.68,"body":"Right."},{"startTime":295.68,"endTime":296.253,"body":"Small company."},{"startTime":296.253,"endTime":296.307,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":296.607,"endTime":300.207,"body":"Clearly somebody's brought"},{"startTime":296.607,"endTime":300.207,"body":"in the idea of what to build."},{"startTime":300.262,"endTime":301.625,"body":"Like this is what we need, right?"},{"startTime":301.68,"endTime":306.153,"body":"Maybe even why we ne need this Now"},{"startTime":301.68,"endTime":306.153,"body":"the team goes away and does that, and,"},{"startTime":306.153,"endTime":307.816,"body":"and somehow magically it all works."},{"startTime":307.816,"endTime":313.575,"body":"Or are there issues where the teams aren't"},{"startTime":307.816,"endTime":313.575,"body":"perhaps clear on the what necessarily?"},{"startTime":313.63,"endTime":315.225,"body":"Day one, they come up with something."},{"startTime":315.648,"endTime":318.739,"body":"Let's just call it a a"},{"startTime":315.648,"endTime":318.739,"body":"prototype or even a pre-totype."},{"startTime":318.757,"endTime":318.921,"body":"Mm-hmm."},{"startTime":319.553,"endTime":320.698,"body":"And they need to validate that."},{"startTime":321.08,"endTime":325.444,"body":"And the, the people, usually a"},{"startTime":321.08,"endTime":325.444,"body":"person, as we just said, would."},{"startTime":325.853,"endTime":328.853,"body":"Look at that and say, yeah,"},{"startTime":325.853,"endTime":328.853,"body":"not quite what I had in mind."},{"startTime":328.88,"endTime":331.698,"body":"Yep so all manner of"},{"startTime":328.88,"endTime":331.698,"body":"different interactions could"},{"startTime":331.744,"endTime":332.535,"body":"come out of that, right?"},{"startTime":332.571,"endTime":332.862,"body":"Mm-hmm."},{"startTime":333.162,"endTime":334.444,"body":". So we can probably yeah."},{"startTime":334.471,"endTime":335.616,"body":"Look under the hood a bit there."},{"startTime":335.666,"endTime":340.603,"body":"I'm kind of okay with getting pushback"},{"startTime":335.666,"endTime":340.603,"body":"from your internal stakeholders"},{"startTime":341.039,"endTime":344.985,"body":"and getting your product over the"},{"startTime":341.039,"endTime":344.985,"body":"initial hurdle of the people in"},{"startTime":344.985,"endTime":345.966,"body":"the company are happy with it."},{"startTime":346.103,"endTime":349.085,"body":"I, I'm kind of okay with that as a"},{"startTime":346.103,"endTime":349.085,"body":"product manager to say that like, Hey,"},{"startTime":349.085,"endTime":352.085,"body":"the internal stakeholders I I, I'm used"},{"startTime":349.085,"endTime":352.085,"body":"to the internal stakeholders just being"},{"startTime":352.303,"endTime":354.375,"body":"far more vicious than anybody externally."},{"startTime":354.38,"endTime":355.63,"body":"And, and like, but that's good."},{"startTime":355.63,"endTime":356.394,"body":"Like I don't, it is good."},{"startTime":356.448,"endTime":360.185,"body":"I don't, I don't mind healthy conflict"},{"startTime":356.448,"endTime":360.185,"body":"as long as it leads to, cuz I'm"},{"startTime":360.185,"endTime":362.175,"body":"not gonna take it seriously cause"},{"startTime":360.185,"endTime":362.175,"body":"the, like the product is not my."},{"startTime":362.994,"endTime":364.357,"body":". It's not my child, you know what I mean?"},{"startTime":364.357,"endTime":368.339,"body":"It's a . It's, it's something that we"},{"startTime":364.357,"endTime":368.339,"body":"are producing and we are going to keep"},{"startTime":368.339,"endTime":370.385,"body":"working at it until it gets better."},{"startTime":370.494,"endTime":372.103,"body":"It's not something we did"},{"startTime":370.494,"endTime":372.103,"body":"one time and that's it."},{"startTime":372.157,"endTime":373.439,"body":"And we don't have a chance to improve it."},{"startTime":373.603,"endTime":373.766,"body":"Yep."},{"startTime":373.821,"endTime":374.121,"body":"You know?"},{"startTime":374.339,"endTime":374.421,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":374.448,"endTime":375.566,"body":"So we're gonna keep working at it."},{"startTime":375.566,"endTime":377.939,"body":"So I don't, I don't mind vicious"},{"startTime":375.566,"endTime":377.939,"body":"feedback like that, or just people"},{"startTime":377.939,"endTime":382.448,"body":"just telling me like, oh, I don't like"},{"startTime":377.939,"endTime":382.448,"body":"this cuz whatever but, but also, um we"},{"startTime":382.453,"endTime":383.948,"body":"have priorities and limited resources."},{"startTime":384.085,"endTime":385.285,"body":"All the stuff you do with a small company."},{"startTime":385.439,"endTime":389.912,"body":"Where I wanna go with this is at a small"},{"startTime":385.439,"endTime":389.912,"body":"company let's, if they're 20 people or"},{"startTime":389.916,"endTime":392.639,"body":"whatever, maybe you have two separate"},{"startTime":389.916,"endTime":392.639,"body":"teams, three separate teams, whatever"},{"startTime":392.639,"endTime":395.485,"body":"it is, at a small company like that"},{"startTime":392.639,"endTime":395.485,"body":"you have the opportunity at the end"},{"startTime":395.485,"endTime":400.303,"body":"of every sprint to quite literally get"},{"startTime":395.485,"endTime":400.303,"body":"the entire company into your review,"},{"startTime":400.757,"endTime":404.116,"body":"along with maybe a, a key stakeholder"},{"startTime":400.757,"endTime":404.116,"body":"or two from external or whatever, right?"},{"startTime":404.144,"endTime":406.489,"body":"Um, or people in the field that"},{"startTime":404.144,"endTime":406.489,"body":"you're trying to solve a problem."},{"startTime":406.489,"endTime":409.544,"body":"People, customers, external customers"},{"startTime":406.489,"endTime":409.544,"body":"that you're trying to solve a problem for."},{"startTime":410.171,"endTime":411.966,"body":"And and, and literally the whole company."},{"startTime":412.039,"endTime":414.766,"body":"I showed this in, in the podcast"},{"startTime":412.039,"endTime":414.766,"body":"where Stormy and I were talking"},{"startTime":414.766,"endTime":417.085,"body":"about going from being a product"},{"startTime":414.766,"endTime":417.085,"body":"owner to a product manager."},{"startTime":417.33,"endTime":420.803,"body":"I showed a graphic that basically"},{"startTime":417.33,"endTime":420.803,"body":"was the percent of time that"},{"startTime":421.012,"endTime":422.866,"body":"product managers spend in their day."},{"startTime":422.866,"endTime":424.966,"body":"Talking about how much time you"},{"startTime":422.866,"endTime":424.966,"body":"spend tactical, meaning with your"},{"startTime":424.966,"endTime":428.485,"body":"development team, how much time you"},{"startTime":424.966,"endTime":428.485,"body":"spend op operating, operating meaning"},{"startTime":428.485,"endTime":431.375,"body":"lining, updates, dependencies, stuff"},{"startTime":428.485,"endTime":431.375,"body":"like that between teams and how much"},{"startTime":431.38,"endTime":432.875,"body":"time you spend at a strategic level."},{"startTime":433.012,"endTime":435.957,"body":"Those three things, The operating thing."},{"startTime":435.985,"endTime":439.203,"body":"I feel the advantage of a small"},{"startTime":435.985,"endTime":439.203,"body":"company like this is you don't have"},{"startTime":439.203,"endTime":440.512,"body":"to spend so much time operating."},{"startTime":440.512,"endTime":443.666,"body":"Cuz every time you do a sprint"},{"startTime":440.512,"endTime":443.666,"body":"every time you do a sprint review,"},{"startTime":443.994,"endTime":446.148,"body":"I was gonna say sprint demo, I'm"},{"startTime":443.994,"endTime":446.148,"body":"trying to use the right word."},{"startTime":446.366,"endTime":449.912,"body":"Every time you do a sprint review,"},{"startTime":446.366,"endTime":449.912,"body":"you, you literally have everybody"},{"startTime":449.912,"endTime":453.512,"body":"possible in the sprint review and"},{"startTime":449.912,"endTime":453.512,"body":"you can say, okay, this is what we're"},{"startTime":453.512,"endTime":455.021,"body":"doing and , this is what we have."},{"startTime":455.075,"endTime":455.866,"body":"Let's get feedback."},{"startTime":455.866,"endTime":456.603,"body":"Let's all talk about it."},{"startTime":456.603,"endTime":459.266,"body":"Let's decide what's higher"},{"startTime":456.603,"endTime":459.266,"body":"priority, what's not, whatever."},{"startTime":459.785,"endTime":461.83,"body":"And then you can watch"},{"startTime":459.785,"endTime":461.83,"body":"me adjust the backlog."},{"startTime":462.075,"endTime":465.566,"body":"You can watch me record the items and"},{"startTime":462.075,"endTime":465.566,"body":"you can watch me bring up the backlog and"},{"startTime":465.566,"endTime":469.63,"body":"say,  this is my plan going forward as"},{"startTime":465.566,"endTime":469.63,"body":"next steps based off of what you said."},{"startTime":469.63,"endTime":472.685,"body":"And based off of what I know And"},{"startTime":469.63,"endTime":472.685,"body":"this, and like, everyone is always"},{"startTime":472.685,"endTime":477.18,"body":"informed about the absolute latest"},{"startTime":472.685,"endTime":477.18,"body":"latest of the latest, basically."},{"startTime":477.225,"endTime":477.371,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":477.375,"endTime":477.562,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":477.616,"endTime":480.262,"body":"That's the advantage of this in"},{"startTime":477.616,"endTime":480.262,"body":"a, in a small setting, right?"},{"startTime":480.262,"endTime":482.062,"body":"Everyone's available,"},{"startTime":480.262,"endTime":482.062,"body":"they're in arms length."},{"startTime":482.403,"endTime":483.303,"body":"That's a good thing, right?"},{"startTime":483.357,"endTime":483.603,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":483.657,"endTime":483.903,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":484.048,"endTime":489.548,"body":"in that, I feel the, the what"},{"startTime":484.048,"endTime":489.548,"body":"is very well covered, right?"},{"startTime":489.63,"endTime":492.912,"body":"Because we're never going more"},{"startTime":489.63,"endTime":492.912,"body":"than the normal cadence without"},{"startTime":493.248,"endTime":494.421,"body":"syncing up with everybody."},{"startTime":494.803,"endTime":495.975,"body":"That, and that's the advantage."},{"startTime":495.975,"endTime":500.63,"body":"So if we're talking about like, hey, maybe"},{"startTime":495.975,"endTime":500.63,"body":"our practices about how we're delivering"},{"startTime":500.63,"endTime":502.903,"body":"things between teams are not the best."},{"startTime":503.148,"endTime":506.985,"body":"Like you, you have a session where you're"},{"startTime":503.148,"endTime":506.985,"body":"doing a, a, a review and, and although"},{"startTime":506.985,"endTime":510.612,"body":"we're not, we're, I'm specifically"},{"startTime":506.985,"endTime":510.612,"body":"trying to not talk about scaling today,"},{"startTime":510.639,"endTime":513.503,"body":"cuz I hate talking about scout feel"},{"startTime":510.639,"endTime":513.503,"body":"like every time, every time anyone"},{"startTime":513.503,"endTime":516.998,"body":"ever in any podcast to listen to talks"},{"startTime":513.503,"endTime":516.998,"body":"about scaling I'm like, woo, I'm out."},{"startTime":517.025,"endTime":517.271,"body":"I'm out."},{"startTime":517.275,"endTime":521.171,"body":"I'm not learning anything in this very"},{"startTime":517.275,"endTime":521.171,"body":"small organization with like two or three"},{"startTime":521.171,"endTime":524.457,"body":"teams,  right there in that sprint review."},{"startTime":524.512,"endTime":527.512,"body":"You can go team to team to team"},{"startTime":524.512,"endTime":527.512,"body":"and basically see the sprint review"},{"startTime":527.512,"endTime":529.175,"body":"for three different teams right."},{"startTime":529.175,"endTime":529.83,"body":"In one session."},{"startTime":530.703,"endTime":530.948,"body":"Okay."},{"startTime":530.953,"endTime":532.421,"body":"And, and literally it's the whole company."},{"startTime":532.885,"endTime":535.803,"body":"But then when when you're planning and"},{"startTime":532.885,"endTime":535.803,"body":"when you're trying to say like, oh,"},{"startTime":535.803,"endTime":539.403,"body":"well I need you to work on this, or,"},{"startTime":535.803,"endTime":539.403,"body":"or you know, oh you're, you're the way"},{"startTime":539.403,"endTime":541.475,"body":"that you work with this component is"},{"startTime":539.403,"endTime":541.475,"body":"a little bit different than the way we"},{"startTime":541.48,"endTime":542.457,"body":"work with this component or whatever."},{"startTime":542.594,"endTime":545.294,"body":"Like, you can kind of hash it"},{"startTime":542.594,"endTime":545.294,"body":"out because it's three teams."},{"startTime":545.339,"endTime":549.321,"body":"There's no meetings three weeks out,"},{"startTime":545.339,"endTime":549.321,"body":"there's no delays, there's no cost a delay"},{"startTime":549.321,"endTime":550.93,"body":"in the waiting time and stuff like that."},{"startTime":551.266,"endTime":553.521,"body":"If, if you decide that you"},{"startTime":551.266,"endTime":553.521,"body":"wanna change your process."},{"startTime":553.521,"endTime":554.257,"body":"That's what I'm trying to say."},{"startTime":555.075,"endTime":557.53,"body":"You know, there, there's very little"},{"startTime":555.075,"endTime":557.53,"body":"delay in changing your process."},{"startTime":557.535,"endTime":560.189,"body":"The team members just talk to"},{"startTime":557.535,"endTime":560.189,"body":"each other and it's, you do it."},{"startTime":560.325,"endTime":560.598,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":560.603,"endTime":564.298,"body":"That at that level, the organizational"},{"startTime":560.603,"endTime":564.298,"body":"inertia is just not there."},{"startTime":564.298,"endTime":565.553,"body":"So it's, it's much easier to move."},{"startTime":566.153,"endTime":566.998,"body":", I agree with that."},{"startTime":567.081,"endTime":570.353,"body":"The process change of how"},{"startTime":567.081,"endTime":570.353,"body":"teams work with each other, I"},{"startTime":570.353,"endTime":572.235,"body":"consider under the how cycle."},{"startTime":572.79,"endTime":578.081,"body":"I just presented a new idea, which"},{"startTime":572.79,"endTime":578.081,"body":"probably was hidden from the beginning of"},{"startTime":578.081,"endTime":584.49,"body":"the podcast till now, which is I consider"},{"startTime":578.081,"endTime":584.49,"body":"all of the business prioritization"},{"startTime":584.544,"endTime":587.162,"body":"and the breaking down of work, like"},{"startTime":584.544,"endTime":587.162,"body":"typical business analysis type work."},{"startTime":587.599,"endTime":591.608,"body":"I consider that under the banner"},{"startTime":587.599,"endTime":591.608,"body":"of the what and under the banner of"},{"startTime":591.772,"endTime":595.572,"body":"the, how I consider everything that"},{"startTime":591.772,"endTime":595.572,"body":"development does on a day-to-day basis."},{"startTime":595.572,"endTime":597.426,"body":"Writing code, everything,"},{"startTime":595.572,"endTime":597.426,"body":"testers do, stuff like that."},{"startTime":597.426,"endTime":598.653,"body":"Anybody on a Scrum team, right?"},{"startTime":599.281,"endTime":603.917,"body":"But also I consider the process in"},{"startTime":599.281,"endTime":603.917,"body":"which teams work with one another."},{"startTime":604.572,"endTime":607.926,"body":"I consider that part of the,"},{"startTime":604.572,"endTime":607.926,"body":"how to be discussed in whatever,"},{"startTime":608.308,"endTime":609.672,"body":"whatever group just talks about how"},{"startTime":610.408,"endTime":610.653,"body":"yep."},{"startTime":610.735,"endTime":611.69,"body":"I fully concurrent with that."},{"startTime":611.744,"endTime":612.344,"body":"Absolutely."},{"startTime":612.481,"endTime":616.462,"body":"So it's pretty clear right at, at a"},{"startTime":612.481,"endTime":616.462,"body":"company that's quite small, you don't"},{"startTime":616.462,"endTime":619.926,"body":"have a lot of fluff, a noise, all"},{"startTime":616.462,"endTime":619.926,"body":"that stuff that you have, people are"},{"startTime":619.926,"endTime":621.831,"body":"available, you can get things done right."},{"startTime":621.922,"endTime":624.122,"body":"And decision making"},{"startTime":621.922,"endTime":624.122,"body":"chains are much shorter."},{"startTime":624.285,"endTime":624.667,"body":"Yes."},{"startTime":624.694,"endTime":625.294,"body":"Which is great."},{"startTime":625.349,"endTime":625.731,"body":"Yes."},{"startTime":626.003,"endTime":626.494,"body":"Delay."},{"startTime":626.494,"endTime":626.712,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":626.712,"endTime":627.558,"body":"Delay is much shorter too."},{"startTime":627.562,"endTime":627.694,"body":"Yeah"},{"startTime":628.058,"endTime":629.944,"body":"Is it time to sell Brian"},{"startTime":628.058,"endTime":629.944,"body":"and Om's software firm?"},{"startTime":629.972,"endTime":634.308,"body":"Uh, and cash out, uh  get our golden"},{"startTime":629.972,"endTime":634.308,"body":"parachute for staying for a year to"},{"startTime":634.308,"endTime":637.681,"body":"make sure that not all of our employees"},{"startTime":634.308,"endTime":637.681,"body":"quit like after a year . Because that,"},{"startTime":637.708,"endTime":639.126,"body":"that's what happens when firms sell out."},{"startTime":639.126,"endTime":641.208,"body":"Like, I don't I don't know if I'm"},{"startTime":639.126,"endTime":641.208,"body":"shocking anyone right now about"},{"startTime":641.208,"endTime":644.153,"body":"like, your founders are under some"},{"startTime":641.208,"endTime":644.153,"body":"kind of contractual obligation to"},{"startTime":644.153,"endTime":645.408,"body":"stay for a certain amount of time."},{"startTime":645.749,"endTime":648.367,"body":"Depending on how savvy the negotiators"},{"startTime":645.749,"endTime":648.367,"body":"were that bought your company,"},{"startTime":648.722,"endTime":651.367,"body":"and then they're gonna cash out"},{"startTime":648.722,"endTime":651.367,"body":"and go on to their next venture."},{"startTime":651.44,"endTime":654.212,"body":"But in the meanwhile, another"},{"startTime":651.44,"endTime":654.212,"body":"company bought Brian, M's."},{"startTime":654.267,"endTime":656.949,"body":"Software development firm"},{"startTime":654.267,"endTime":656.949,"body":"our, our 20 person company."},{"startTime":657.194,"endTime":660.785,"body":"And now our 20 person company is"},{"startTime":657.194,"endTime":660.785,"body":"getting merged into a, i, I don't"},{"startTime":660.785,"endTime":662.476,"body":"know, a hundred, hundred and 50."},{"startTime":662.476,"endTime":663.567,"body":"Well, ain't have to be that big."},{"startTime":663.567,"endTime":664.74,"body":"Let's say it's 150 person company."},{"startTime":664.831,"endTime":668.158,"body":"So let's say it's not a huge company,"},{"startTime":664.831,"endTime":668.158,"body":"it's just a, it's another equal or just"},{"startTime":668.158,"endTime":671.394,"body":"a little bit bigger company perhaps"},{"startTime":668.158,"endTime":671.394,"body":"now what happens now you've got two"},{"startTime":671.394,"endTime":674.912,"body":"companies, either if it's takeover,"},{"startTime":671.394,"endTime":674.912,"body":"merger, it doesn't matter, the ways"},{"startTime":674.912,"endTime":676.712,"body":"of working are going to change."},{"startTime":676.767,"endTime":676.876,"body":"Mm-hmm."},{"startTime":677.094,"endTime":677.885,"body":"Um, would you like them?"},{"startTime":677.885,"endTime":679.003,"body":"Not typically."},{"startTime":679.003,"endTime":682.003,"body":"The acquirer-er will prevail."},{"startTime":682.003,"endTime":682.085,"body":"Sure."},{"startTime":682.14,"endTime":683.367,"body":"So it's their Yeah."},{"startTime":683.476,"endTime":687.031,"body":"Ways of working that would be"},{"startTime":683.476,"endTime":687.031,"body":"kind of passed down to the teams."},{"startTime":687.14,"endTime":688.012,"body":"Do it this way now."},{"startTime":688.067,"endTime":688.203,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":688.34,"endTime":691.94,"body":", if you did have any middle layer"},{"startTime":688.34,"endTime":691.94,"body":"at all, E even if it was a small"},{"startTime":691.94,"endTime":694.803,"body":"company, a development manager"},{"startTime":691.94,"endTime":694.803,"body":"is perhaps, perhaps an example."},{"startTime":695.149,"endTime":697.603,"body":"they may not be around anymore"},{"startTime":695.149,"endTime":697.603,"body":"because you don't need two"},{"startTime":697.603,"endTime":698.722,"body":"sets of development managers."},{"startTime":698.94,"endTime":699.103,"body":"Sure."},{"startTime":699.103,"endTime":703.212,"body":"So maybe the teams are rolled up under"},{"startTime":699.103,"endTime":703.212,"body":"the acquirer's dev manager or mm-hmm."},{"startTime":703.54,"endTime":704.712,"body":", your director of development, whoever."},{"startTime":704.758,"endTime":704.976,"body":"Mm-hmm."},{"startTime":705.122,"endTime":709.022,"body":". And, and they will have their own"},{"startTime":705.122,"endTime":709.022,"body":"practices that they will basically"},{"startTime":709.022,"endTime":710.385,"body":"get the teams to, to follow."},{"startTime":710.412,"endTime":713.603,"body":"And then what I just said about the"},{"startTime":710.412,"endTime":713.603,"body":"development team and the how also"},{"startTime":713.603,"endTime":715.603,"body":"applies on the other side Product side."},{"startTime":716.349,"endTime":719.185,"body":"the interesting thing here is,"},{"startTime":716.349,"endTime":719.185,"body":"Development is development at the"},{"startTime":719.185,"endTime":723.385,"body":"end of the day, but product is"},{"startTime":719.185,"endTime":723.385,"body":"different because people's knowledge"},{"startTime":723.385,"endTime":724.912,"body":"of a domain set is different."},{"startTime":724.967,"endTime":725.076,"body":"Mm-hmm."},{"startTime":725.294,"endTime":728.458,"body":". So now you've been acquired by a"},{"startTime":725.294,"endTime":728.458,"body":"company that may understand your"},{"startTime":728.458,"endTime":730.176,"body":"domain to some degree or may not."},{"startTime":730.176,"endTime":730.231,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":730.749,"endTime":734.212,"body":"And now you've got some friction because"},{"startTime":730.749,"endTime":734.212,"body":"if they keep your product folks around,"},{"startTime":734.594,"endTime":737.703,"body":"you're gonna wanna see how that plays out."},{"startTime":737.731,"endTime":738.112,"body":"Right?"},{"startTime":738.117,"endTime":738.203,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":738.276,"endTime":738.412,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":738.412,"endTime":739.694,"body":"How does that play out in practice?"},{"startTime":739.694,"endTime":742.994,"body":"I feel it's fairly important at this"},{"startTime":739.694,"endTime":742.994,"body":"point to point out like what, what you"},{"startTime":742.994,"endTime":746.603,"body":"just highlighted it goes pretty much"},{"startTime":742.994,"endTime":746.603,"body":"unsaid on every every podcast, every"},{"startTime":746.608,"endTime":751.094,"body":"source I read if you are grouping"},{"startTime":746.608,"endTime":751.094,"body":"inside the organization right."},{"startTime":751.094,"endTime":753.958,"body":"Your, your subgroup inside the"},{"startTime":751.094,"endTime":753.958,"body":"organization, A lot of people are"},{"startTime":753.958,"endTime":754.803,"body":"gonna be like, what does that mean?"},{"startTime":754.803,"endTime":755.649,"body":"That means nothing to me."},{"startTime":755.649,"endTime":756.576,"body":"I don't understand a subgroup."},{"startTime":756.822,"endTime":760.585,"body":"If, if the teams that work on software"},{"startTime":756.822,"endTime":760.585,"body":"that were from the merger, from your"},{"startTime":760.585,"endTime":763.476,"body":"side of the organization and the teams"},{"startTime":760.585,"endTime":763.476,"body":"from this other side of the organization,"},{"startTime":763.522,"endTime":767.912,"body":"if the users that use that software"},{"startTime":763.522,"endTime":767.912,"body":"are different from one side of the"},{"startTime":767.912,"endTime":771.894,"body":"organization to the to another, now"},{"startTime":767.912,"endTime":771.894,"body":"you've got a much bigger problem."},{"startTime":771.894,"endTime":772.412,"body":"Cuz now the."},{"startTime":773.776,"endTime":779.394,"body":", the what cycle needs to divide between"},{"startTime":773.776,"endTime":779.394,"body":"user segments And you need to like,"},{"startTime":779.503,"endTime":783.758,"body":"you need to draw a, a, a, a dotted"},{"startTime":779.503,"endTime":783.758,"body":"group line between those user segments"},{"startTime":783.812,"endTime":785.122,"body":"and keep those groups separate."},{"startTime":785.126,"endTime":788.231,"body":"Because now we're talking about context"},{"startTime":785.126,"endTime":788.231,"body":"switching of like, let's say that"},{"startTime":788.231,"endTime":792.44,"body":"we sell Brian and Om's uh, software"},{"startTime":788.231,"endTime":792.44,"body":"company, , . I like the side of that."},{"startTime":792.44,"endTime":794.912,"body":"And, and uh, and, and you take"},{"startTime":792.44,"endTime":794.912,"body":"the deal to stick around and deal"},{"startTime":794.912,"endTime":797.34,"body":"with the pain for a year to make"},{"startTime":794.912,"endTime":797.34,"body":"sure all the employees don't quit."},{"startTime":797.394,"endTime":798.476,"body":"And I'm like, whatever."},{"startTime":798.481,"endTime":799.358,"body":"There's no amount of money you can give."},{"startTime":799.358,"endTime":799.822,"body":"You're retired."},{"startTime":799.876,"endTime":802.358,"body":"No amount of money you can"},{"startTime":799.876,"endTime":802.358,"body":"gimme to stick around suckers."},{"startTime":802.358,"endTime":803.094,"body":"You're on a cruise already."},{"startTime":803.094,"endTime":803.385,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":803.385,"endTime":804.649,"body":"And they're like, but Brian,"},{"startTime":803.385,"endTime":804.649,"body":"we'll give you all this money"},{"startTime":804.649,"endTime":805.385,"body":"to stick around for a year."},{"startTime":805.385,"endTime":806.449,"body":"I'm like, I'm not sticking around."},{"startTime":806.449,"endTime":807.731,"body":"Will you guys dismantle my product?"},{"startTime":807.731,"endTime":809.34,"body":"And my teams like, not, not happening."},{"startTime":809.394,"endTime":814.512,"body":"And I take my money and I go off and I"},{"startTime":809.394,"endTime":814.512,"body":"start like, Brian's logistics software."},{"startTime":814.59,"endTime":817.344,"body":"Company cuz that's where like a,"},{"startTime":814.59,"endTime":817.344,"body":"a lot of my domain expertise is."},{"startTime":817.599,"endTime":818.935,"body":"And, I buy a company immediately."},{"startTime":818.935,"endTime":820.681,"body":"Like, oh, I'll buy a"},{"startTime":818.935,"endTime":820.681,"body":"logistics software firm."},{"startTime":820.79,"endTime":825.235,"body":"And I find out that like my logistics"},{"startTime":820.79,"endTime":825.235,"body":"software firm uh, services like truck"},{"startTime":825.235,"endTime":828.999,"body":"drivers and dispatchers, well truck"},{"startTime":825.235,"endTime":828.999,"body":"drivers and dispatchers, like the"},{"startTime":829.362,"endTime":832.026,"body":"software that works for truck drivers"},{"startTime":829.362,"endTime":832.026,"body":"and dispatchers, it's very similar cuz"},{"startTime":832.081,"endTime":835.462,"body":"the dispatchers talk to truck drivers and"},{"startTime":832.081,"endTime":835.462,"body":"the truck drivers talk to dispatchers."},{"startTime":836.172,"endTime":837.126,"body":"Makes total sense."},{"startTime":837.508,"endTime":838.544,"body":"However, yes."},{"startTime":838.549,"endTime":843.808,"body":"However,  however, dispatchers care"},{"startTime":838.549,"endTime":843.808,"body":"about one thing,  and truck drivers care"},{"startTime":843.808,"endTime":845.444,"body":"about something completely different."},{"startTime":845.608,"endTime":848.467,"body":"That's basically they both"},{"startTime":845.608,"endTime":848.467,"body":"care about the same things."},{"startTime":848.467,"endTime":851.876,"body":"The only thing, the only difference"},{"startTime":848.467,"endTime":851.876,"body":"is their problems that they."},{"startTime":852.517,"endTime":855.462,"body":"Are centric to themselves, they're"},{"startTime":852.517,"endTime":855.462,"body":"concerned about themselves,"},{"startTime":855.653,"endTime":856.244,"body":"the you know what I mean?"},{"startTime":856.244,"endTime":858.699,"body":"The truck driver's concerned"},{"startTime":856.244,"endTime":858.699,"body":"about like, what, what's my route?"},{"startTime":858.699,"endTime":859.872,"body":"When, when do I have to stop?"},{"startTime":860.035,"endTime":861.017,"body":"Uh, am I gonna be, you know what I mean?"},{"startTime":861.126,"endTime":861.917,"body":"How's my equipment?"},{"startTime":861.917,"endTime":862.49,"body":"Is it safe?"},{"startTime":862.49,"endTime":862.926,"body":"That kind of stuff."},{"startTime":862.926,"endTime":865.462,"body":"Like depending if they drive"},{"startTime":862.926,"endTime":865.462,"body":"themselves or if they drive trucks or"},{"startTime":865.462,"endTime":866.89,"body":"whatever there's a lot of variables."},{"startTime":866.935,"endTime":869.008,"body":", am I gonna be penalized for"},{"startTime":866.935,"endTime":869.008,"body":"speaking out about something if I"},{"startTime":869.008,"endTime":870.399,"body":"point out a problem or whatever?"},{"startTime":870.735,"endTime":874.822,"body":"the problem of a truck driver and"},{"startTime":870.735,"endTime":874.822,"body":"the, the way the software flows for"},{"startTime":874.826,"endTime":877.303,"body":"a truck driver is very different."},{"startTime":877.467,"endTime":881.476,"body":"So the team, when you go and deploy"},{"startTime":877.467,"endTime":881.476,"body":"a software development team to say,"},{"startTime":881.476,"endTime":886.822,"body":"Hey, write me great software for truck"},{"startTime":881.476,"endTime":886.822,"body":"drivers, that team and their product"},{"startTime":886.822,"endTime":890.831,"body":"people are gonna spend a lot of time"},{"startTime":886.822,"endTime":890.831,"body":"concentrating on the what, what needs"},{"startTime":890.831,"endTime":892.276,"body":"to happen, what are your problems?"},{"startTime":893.04,"endTime":895.031,"body":"And then the team's gonna say,"},{"startTime":893.04,"endTime":895.031,"body":"how can we solve those problems?"},{"startTime":895.14,"endTime":896.967,"body":"And they're going to get to"},{"startTime":895.14,"endTime":896.967,"body":"work solving those problems and"},{"startTime":896.967,"endTime":897.922,"body":"those problems that they solve."},{"startTime":898.426,"endTime":903.962,"body":"Dispatchers, maybe some, there might be"},{"startTime":898.426,"endTime":903.962,"body":"some overlap, but dispatchers are not"},{"startTime":903.962,"endTime":905.162,"body":"gonna, they'll be like, I don't care."},{"startTime":905.244,"endTime":905.926,"body":"I don't care about that."},{"startTime":905.981,"endTime":907.453,"body":"Let the, let the truck"},{"startTime":905.981,"endTime":907.453,"body":"driver figure that out."},{"startTime":907.562,"endTime":908.244,"body":"They can figure it out."},{"startTime":908.49,"endTime":909.062,"body":"They're smart people."},{"startTime":909.062,"endTime":910.781,"body":"They're figured out, solve my problem."},{"startTime":911.117,"endTime":913.599,"body":"I'll give you an example of a, of"},{"startTime":911.117,"endTime":913.599,"body":"a complicated dispatcher problem."},{"startTime":913.872,"endTime":916.753,"body":"Like I, there was um,"},{"startTime":913.872,"endTime":916.753,"body":"dispatch systems do this."},{"startTime":916.753,"endTime":918.326,"body":"They, they they go tag people."},{"startTime":918.326,"endTime":920.017,"body":"I don't know if this is, I"},{"startTime":918.326,"endTime":920.017,"body":"might cut this whole thing out."},{"startTime":920.017,"endTime":921.053,"body":"It's just a, it's a fun story."},{"startTime":921.053,"endTime":924.162,"body":"It's a fun story for, for logistics"},{"startTime":921.053,"endTime":924.162,"body":"when you're like, oh, like how"},{"startTime":924.162,"endTime":925.217,"body":"hard is it to be a dispatcher?"},{"startTime":925.222,"endTime":925.308,"body":"Right?"},{"startTime":925.444,"endTime":929.762,"body":"Like, you're, you're, you're Uh, if"},{"startTime":925.444,"endTime":929.762,"body":"you, if all the trucks have little"},{"startTime":929.853,"endTime":933.508,"body":"electronic logging devices in the"},{"startTime":929.853,"endTime":933.508,"body":"trucks that they'll be phoning home"},{"startTime":933.512,"endTime":934.408,"body":"and telling you where the trucks are."},{"startTime":934.408,"endTime":937.544,"body":"So you can map all your trucks over"},{"startTime":934.408,"endTime":937.544,"body":"the whatever, region, area, whatever"},{"startTime":937.544,"endTime":940.899,"body":"you mean, roll up, roll down  so if you"},{"startTime":937.544,"endTime":940.899,"body":"wanna know Hey, hey, I've gotta go pick"},{"startTime":940.899,"endTime":945.672,"body":"up, I've gotta go pick up a, a, a a,"},{"startTime":940.899,"endTime":945.672,"body":"a truckload of something in some area."},{"startTime":945.672,"endTime":948.262,"body":"So Tampa, Florida, for example, I have"},{"startTime":945.672,"endTime":948.262,"body":"a, I have a truckload of something"},{"startTime":948.453,"endTime":949.735,"body":"sitting on the outskirts of Tampa."},{"startTime":950.09,"endTime":952.681,"body":"I need to know what truck drivers"},{"startTime":950.09,"endTime":952.681,"body":"are within a 50 mile radius."},{"startTime":952.981,"endTime":953.417,"body":"You know what I mean?"},{"startTime":953.444,"endTime":957.89,"body":"Or are going to be in a 50 mile"},{"startTime":953.444,"endTime":957.89,"body":"radius within this window of"},{"startTime":957.89,"endTime":958.899,"body":"time, you know what I mean?"},{"startTime":958.899,"endTime":959.772,"body":"Before, before."},{"startTime":959.799,"endTime":961.708,"body":"Because a different cargo"},{"startTime":959.799,"endTime":961.708,"body":"has different requirements."},{"startTime":961.712,"endTime":962.472,"body":"A lot of variables anyway."},{"startTime":962.472,"endTime":962.617,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":962.617,"endTime":964.381,"body":"A lot of variables with"},{"startTime":962.617,"endTime":964.381,"body":"the right capacity."},{"startTime":964.385,"endTime":964.981,"body":"All that stuff."},{"startTime":965.008,"endTime":965.308,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":965.772,"endTime":967.026,"body":"With the right capacity to drive."},{"startTime":967.026,"endTime":967.981,"body":"Yes, with the right capacity to drive."},{"startTime":967.985,"endTime":971.699,"body":"So I, I need my software to, to"},{"startTime":967.985,"endTime":971.699,"body":"understand all those variables."},{"startTime":972.026,"endTime":975.026,"body":"And then when I go, Hey, I've"},{"startTime":972.026,"endTime":975.026,"body":"got this, I've got this load."},{"startTime":975.749,"endTime":977.222,"body":"I need to be picked up."},{"startTime":977.303,"endTime":979.022,"body":"Show me who I could offer this to."},{"startTime":979.049,"endTime":982.485,"body":"I need the software to go out, query"},{"startTime":979.049,"endTime":982.485,"body":"all that information, and then, and"},{"startTime":982.485,"endTime":985.103,"body":"then give me a list that I already know."},{"startTime":985.131,"endTime":988.231,"body":"It doesn't include anything"},{"startTime":985.131,"endTime":988.231,"body":"that is out out of my criteria."},{"startTime":988.449,"endTime":991.112,"body":"So , the software for the"},{"startTime":988.449,"endTime":991.112,"body":"dispatcher gets very complicated."},{"startTime":991.276,"endTime":993.976,"body":"Everything I just said, applies"},{"startTime":991.276,"endTime":993.976,"body":"to the truck driver from the"},{"startTime":993.976,"endTime":996.349,"body":"perspective of like, I am a driver."},{"startTime":996.349,"endTime":999.322,"body":"I'm in the area, you know that"},{"startTime":996.349,"endTime":999.322,"body":"I'm going to have availability,"},{"startTime":999.322,"endTime":1000.44,"body":"should I hit all my commitments"},{"startTime":1000.485,"endTime":1006.031,"body":"so I am a stakeholder to the software,"},{"startTime":1000.485,"endTime":1006.031,"body":"but the main person's problem is, I"},{"startTime":1006.031,"endTime":1007.667,"body":"don't know what drivers to offer this to."},{"startTime":1008.158,"endTime":1010.667,"body":"It solves a very specific problem."},{"startTime":1011.022,"endTime":1012.249,"body":"For a specific user."},{"startTime":1012.249,"endTime":1015.503,"body":"So what again, like that was a huge"},{"startTime":1012.249,"endTime":1015.503,"body":"giant ridiculous around the world story."},{"startTime":1015.694,"endTime":1019.731,"body":"Where I was going with that is the"},{"startTime":1015.694,"endTime":1019.731,"body":"dotted line is like, these people are"},{"startTime":1019.731,"endTime":1021.94,"body":"the experts at what a dispatcher needs."},{"startTime":1022.131,"endTime":1024.776,"body":"These people are the experts"},{"startTime":1022.131,"endTime":1024.776,"body":"at what the driver needs."},{"startTime":1024.867,"endTime":1027.899,"body":"And, you can scale your teams and stuff"},{"startTime":1024.867,"endTime":1027.899,"body":"like that depending on like if I write"},{"startTime":1027.899,"endTime":1029.59,"body":"a lot more driver software than I Right."},{"startTime":1029.917,"endTime":1031.69,"body":"Dispatcher software than I, maybe"},{"startTime":1029.917,"endTime":1031.69,"body":"I need more people over here."},{"startTime":1031.826,"endTime":1036.358,"body":"But the point is I'm drawing"},{"startTime":1031.826,"endTime":1036.358,"body":"little group dot dotted lines."},{"startTime":1036.358,"endTime":1039.203,"body":"And I'm not saying that this team"},{"startTime":1036.358,"endTime":1039.203,"body":"over here can't work on software"},{"startTime":1039.203,"endTime":1042.058,"body":"over here or whatever if you're a"},{"startTime":1039.203,"endTime":1042.058,"body":"smaller company, most likely you"},{"startTime":1042.058,"endTime":1044.267,"body":"will be servicing multiple personas."},{"startTime":1044.322,"endTime":1044.54,"body":"Yep."},{"startTime":1044.949,"endTime":1048.594,"body":"However, I started this example"},{"startTime":1044.949,"endTime":1048.594,"body":"saying in, in, Brian Cash out money,"},{"startTime":1048.812,"endTime":1050.04,"body":"I'm gonna go buy a logistics firm."},{"startTime":1050.122,"endTime":1051.867,"body":"Like I'm going to try."},{"startTime":1052.467,"endTime":1055.849,"body":"To have my team that writes"},{"startTime":1052.467,"endTime":1055.849,"body":"things for one persona only ever"},{"startTime":1055.853,"endTime":1057.485,"body":"write things for that persona."},{"startTime":1057.485,"endTime":1059.312,"body":"So they become absolute experts."},{"startTime":1059.476,"endTime":1063.812,"body":"They're the best at solving"},{"startTime":1059.476,"endTime":1063.812,"body":"problems for that specific user."},{"startTime":1065.012,"endTime":1065.367,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":1065.694,"endTime":1067.331,"body":"What you said makes perfect sense."},{"startTime":1067.576,"endTime":1072.158,"body":"You wanna make sure that you are trying"},{"startTime":1067.576,"endTime":1072.158,"body":"to get that expertise in the right"},{"startTime":1072.867,"endTime":1074.831,"body":"pod team, whatever you wanna call it."},{"startTime":1075.049,"endTime":1080.54,"body":"Yeah so that the, the depth, the"},{"startTime":1075.049,"endTime":1080.54,"body":"richness of their product is super"},{"startTime":1080.767,"endTime":1082.235,"body":"I mean, it's as good as it can be."},{"startTime":1082.453,"endTime":1084.499,"body":"And they, because they understand"},{"startTime":1082.453,"endTime":1084.499,"body":"the problem statement, what,"},{"startTime":1084.526,"endTime":1087.353,"body":"what they're trying to solve for"},{"startTime":1084.526,"endTime":1087.353,"body":"um, they understand all wise."},{"startTime":1087.408,"endTime":1088.362,"body":"They understand all the why's."},{"startTime":1088.826,"endTime":1092.181,"body":"Exactly so in small companies,"},{"startTime":1088.826,"endTime":1092.181,"body":"you may have people that are"},{"startTime":1092.562,"endTime":1093.872,"body":"doing double duty, et cetera."},{"startTime":1093.876,"endTime":1094.117,"body":"Mm-hmm."},{"startTime":1094.19,"endTime":1095.508,"body":", and that might even be okay."},{"startTime":1095.644,"endTime":1098.944,"body":"That might even be okay because you know,"},{"startTime":1095.644,"endTime":1098.944,"body":"what you've got is backups, et cetera"},{"startTime":1098.99,"endTime":1102.181,"body":", but when the company gets bigger or"},{"startTime":1098.99,"endTime":1102.181,"body":"gets acquired, however, it gets bigger."},{"startTime":1102.235,"endTime":1102.317,"body":"Mm-hmm."},{"startTime":1102.644,"endTime":1106.49,"body":"things get different because"},{"startTime":1102.644,"endTime":1106.49,"body":"now you've got different forces"},{"startTime":1106.49,"endTime":1107.635,"body":"pulling at these people, right?"},{"startTime":1107.635,"endTime":1107.69,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":1107.69,"endTime":1112.999,"body":"So you have you have internal"},{"startTime":1107.69,"endTime":1112.999,"body":"forces, which is the, the pos that"},{"startTime":1112.999,"endTime":1114.581,"body":"are for product A versus product B."},{"startTime":1114.69,"endTime":1117.69,"body":"Yeah uh, they're saying here, here's"},{"startTime":1114.69,"endTime":1117.69,"body":"my product, here's my product."},{"startTime":1117.69,"endTime":1117.881,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":1118.072,"endTime":1120.772,"body":"And teams have to now figure out"},{"startTime":1118.072,"endTime":1120.772,"body":"how they're gonna service both."},{"startTime":1120.799,"endTime":1121.017,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":1122.081,"endTime":1125.381,"body":"If you don't specialize one versus"},{"startTime":1122.081,"endTime":1125.381,"body":"the other, how do you do that?"},{"startTime":1125.626,"endTime":1125.844,"body":"Right?"},{"startTime":1126.09,"endTime":1126.526,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":1126.608,"endTime":1127.208,"body":"It's difficult."},{"startTime":1127.262,"endTime":1127.562,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":1127.608,"endTime":1130.985,"body":"I, I see where you're going, but, if"},{"startTime":1127.608,"endTime":1130.985,"body":"you don't specialize the what category,"},{"startTime":1131.54,"endTime":1135.249,"body":"how do you know you're not cannibalizing"},{"startTime":1131.54,"endTime":1135.249,"body":"one product over another or one feature"},{"startTime":1135.249,"endTime":1137.322,"body":"over another with your different teams?"},{"startTime":1137.349,"endTime":1139.067,"body":"How how do you know"},{"startTime":1137.349,"endTime":1139.067,"body":"you're not cannibalizing?"},{"startTime":1139.449,"endTime":1143.349,"body":"Especially I think of like, , I"},{"startTime":1139.449,"endTime":1143.349,"body":"think of visionary led companies, cuz"},{"startTime":1143.349,"endTime":1145.203,"body":"visionary led companies can blow up too."},{"startTime":1145.476,"endTime":1148.594,"body":"You know, I, I think of all the"},{"startTime":1145.476,"endTime":1148.594,"body":"companies that I've ever seen that start"},{"startTime":1148.649,"endTime":1150.994,"body":"expanding like unchecked expansion."},{"startTime":1151.058,"endTime":1151.603,"body":"Mm-hmm."},{"startTime":1151.694,"endTime":1155.058,"body":"Or I think of every sales led company"},{"startTime":1151.694,"endTime":1155.058,"body":"I've ever been at or interacted"},{"startTime":1155.058,"endTime":1158.494,"body":"with, where their salespeople are"},{"startTime":1155.058,"endTime":1158.494,"body":"going out and finding new audiences"},{"startTime":1158.494,"endTime":1161.931,"body":"and selling things and everything's"},{"startTime":1158.494,"endTime":1161.931,"body":"selling like, like wildfire."},{"startTime":1162.649,"endTime":1167.149,"body":"but the users of the software are so"},{"startTime":1162.649,"endTime":1167.149,"body":"different  that every time the sales makes"},{"startTime":1167.258,"endTime":1171.385,"body":"a sale of the product,  they leverage"},{"startTime":1167.258,"endTime":1171.385,"body":"some feature that doesn't exist yet to"},{"startTime":1171.385,"endTime":1174.712,"body":"be like, oh, if we just add this one"},{"startTime":1171.385,"endTime":1174.712,"body":"thing you'll sign, okay, well why don't"},{"startTime":1174.712,"endTime":1179.731,"body":"you sign now in the next X number of"},{"startTime":1174.712,"endTime":1179.731,"body":"days, 50 days, 30 days, 10 days, whatever"},{"startTime":1179.735,"endTime":1182.976,"body":"it is, we'll implement the thing that"},{"startTime":1179.735,"endTime":1182.976,"body":"you need and now the development team"},{"startTime":1182.981,"endTime":1186.285,"body":"is under the gun to implement whatever"},{"startTime":1182.981,"endTime":1186.285,"body":"the feature is in, in whatever the."},{"startTime":1186.626,"endTime":1189.635,"body":"Contractually obligated"},{"startTime":1186.626,"endTime":1189.635,"body":"deadline is basically the"},{"startTime":1189.64,"endTime":1190.835,"body":"salesperson wrote a blank check."},{"startTime":1190.862,"endTime":1192.594,"body":"Oh  wrote a blank check"},{"startTime":1190.862,"endTime":1192.594,"body":"and the development team's"},{"startTime":1192.594,"endTime":1193.358,"body":"gotta cash it like that."},{"startTime":1193.603,"endTime":1197.485,"body":"You know, that, that's an effect"},{"startTime":1193.603,"endTime":1197.485,"body":"of the the what is very murky"},{"startTime":1198.194,"endTime":1202.04,"body":"because you have, you're servicing"},{"startTime":1198.194,"endTime":1202.04,"body":"different personas to hook onto, I"},{"startTime":1202.04,"endTime":1203.458,"body":"guess I'm talking about personas."},{"startTime":1203.458,"endTime":1204.549,"body":"No, that, that's, that's absolutely right."},{"startTime":1204.549,"endTime":1205.258,"body":"I've seen that."},{"startTime":1205.258,"endTime":1209.103,"body":"I've seen that where parts of the sales"},{"startTime":1205.258,"endTime":1209.103,"body":"organization is servicing, let's say"},{"startTime":1209.103,"endTime":1211.085,"body":"the government sector versus Yeah, yeah."},{"startTime":1211.09,"endTime":1212.103,"body":"You know, the private sector."},{"startTime":1212.185,"endTime":1212.349,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":1212.349,"endTime":1212.976,"body":"Things like that."},{"startTime":1212.976,"endTime":1214.422,"body":"So yeah, it can get very murky."},{"startTime":1214.558,"endTime":1214.722,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":1215.285,"endTime":1218.322,"body":"And like, I'm like, I'm not trying to beat"},{"startTime":1215.285,"endTime":1218.322,"body":"up sales and like, I, that's, that's not"},{"startTime":1218.322,"endTime":1219.367,"body":"where I'm going with what's going well."},{"startTime":1219.367,"endTime":1220.512,"body":"No, we need, we need sales."},{"startTime":1220.558,"endTime":1222.272,"body":"Where I was going with this tirade was."},{"startTime":1223.508,"endTime":1227.926,"body":"At, at when the company starts expanding"},{"startTime":1223.508,"endTime":1227.926,"body":"and you have different products entering"},{"startTime":1227.926,"endTime":1231.99,"body":"the mix, the what is getting less focused."},{"startTime":1232.453,"endTime":1234.499,"body":"That's where, that's where"},{"startTime":1232.453,"endTime":1234.499,"body":"I was going, less focused."},{"startTime":1235.072,"endTime":1240.144,"body":"So whether you have multiple teams"},{"startTime":1235.072,"endTime":1240.144,"body":"working on one product or multiple teams"},{"startTime":1240.144,"endTime":1244.262,"body":"working on multiple products, or the"},{"startTime":1240.144,"endTime":1244.262,"body":"worst case, which is one team working"},{"startTime":1244.262,"endTime":1247.881,"body":"on multiple products, that's the worst"},{"startTime":1244.262,"endTime":1247.881,"body":"out of this regardless of what it is,"},{"startTime":1247.881,"endTime":1249.49,"body":"like you, now, you're losing focus."},{"startTime":1249.626,"endTime":1253.199,"body":"So when you're losing focus, I, I"},{"startTime":1249.626,"endTime":1253.199,"body":"think the only thing you can reach"},{"startTime":1253.199,"endTime":1256.226,"body":"out to like a, like a, like a drowning"},{"startTime":1253.199,"endTime":1256.226,"body":"person, the only thing you can reach"},{"startTime":1256.226,"endTime":1259.199,"body":"out to is like, what, what is our why?"},{"startTime":1259.69,"endTime":1260.726,"body":"Why are we doing this?"},{"startTime":1260.781,"endTime":1263.099,"body":"Who are we servicing in"},{"startTime":1260.781,"endTime":1263.099,"body":"the small organization?"},{"startTime":1263.29,"endTime":1264.735,"body":"The founders are playing that."},{"startTime":1265.417,"endTime":1267.326,"body":". I can tell you why I just"},{"startTime":1265.417,"endTime":1267.326,"body":"said, come into my office."},{"startTime":1267.372,"endTime":1271.217,"body":"I'll tell you all about the, the deep,"},{"startTime":1267.372,"endTime":1271.217,"body":"deep, deep problems that this segment"},{"startTime":1271.222,"endTime":1275.717,"body":"of the market has, or this user has,"},{"startTime":1271.222,"endTime":1275.717,"body":"or this persona has basically right"},{"startTime":1276.081,"endTime":1279.599,"body":"now that my company's expanding and"},{"startTime":1276.081,"endTime":1279.599,"body":"is servicing maybe different segments"},{"startTime":1279.603,"endTime":1282.19,"body":"of the, of the same market or maybe"},{"startTime":1279.603,"endTime":1282.19,"body":"branching out into different markets."},{"startTime":1282.49,"endTime":1283.69,"body":"Who does that role now?"},{"startTime":1283.744,"endTime":1285.762,"body":"Like, do we have to bring in product now?"},{"startTime":1286.508,"endTime":1289.508,"body":"I think there's very little"},{"startTime":1286.508,"endTime":1289.508,"body":"choice at that stage, right?"},{"startTime":1289.808,"endTime":1294.117,"body":"Because what's happened here is you've"},{"startTime":1289.808,"endTime":1294.117,"body":"got, you've got different products, I'm"},{"startTime":1294.122,"endTime":1295.535,"body":"assuming there's different products."},{"startTime":1295.562,"endTime":1295.753,"body":"Mm-hmm."},{"startTime":1295.89,"endTime":1297.253,"body":", uh from both companies."},{"startTime":1297.308,"endTime":1300.308,"body":"Even though if it's a huge overlap,"},{"startTime":1297.308,"endTime":1300.308,"body":"there's still different products, right?"},{"startTime":1300.308,"endTime":1302.462,"body":"And they need to be"},{"startTime":1300.308,"endTime":1302.462,"body":"understood right by people."},{"startTime":1302.462,"endTime":1304.835,"body":"They need to be owned by people."},{"startTime":1304.835,"endTime":1308.435,"body":"And if you don't have product"},{"startTime":1304.835,"endTime":1308.435,"body":"here, what's gonna happen is may."},{"startTime":1309.117,"endTime":1309.417,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":1309.417,"endTime":1313.017,"body":"Well, I think if you don't have product"},{"startTime":1309.417,"endTime":1313.017,"body":"by this point in the company, you'll"},{"startTime":1313.017,"endTime":1315.881,"body":"be, your culture will be doing projects."},{"startTime":1315.881,"endTime":1316.726,"body":"You'll try to handle it."},{"startTime":1317.026,"endTime":1318.308,"body":"You'll try to handle them as a one-off."},{"startTime":1318.308,"endTime":1321.09,"body":"Like we, we can throw this out"},{"startTime":1318.308,"endTime":1321.09,"body":"there and then toss it over the"},{"startTime":1321.09,"endTime":1323.681,"body":"fence and then ride off into the"},{"startTime":1321.09,"endTime":1323.681,"body":"sunset and, you know what I mean?"},{"startTime":1323.681,"endTime":1326.081,"body":"Get rid of the entire"},{"startTime":1323.681,"endTime":1326.081,"body":"team and never look back."},{"startTime":1326.085,"endTime":1328.89,"body":"And then it basically the customer"},{"startTime":1326.085,"endTime":1328.89,"body":"will get something and they'll be like,"},{"startTime":1328.917,"endTime":1331.426,"body":"mm, this isn't exactly what I wanted."},{"startTime":1331.426,"endTime":1332.544,"body":"I don't know about this."},{"startTime":1332.544,"endTime":1336.008,"body":"You know, maybe if it did this and"},{"startTime":1332.544,"endTime":1336.008,"body":"this would be a better product."},{"startTime":1336.39,"endTime":1338.572,"body":"Like, I, I think at that point you'll"},{"startTime":1336.39,"endTime":1338.572,"body":"get people that pay for your stuff"},{"startTime":1338.572,"endTime":1342.553,"body":"and then like, use it for a while"},{"startTime":1338.572,"endTime":1342.553,"body":"and then never renew or, or, or never"},{"startTime":1342.553,"endTime":1343.644,"body":"use your product in the first place."},{"startTime":1343.653,"endTime":1346.508,"body":"They, they get it, they try to"},{"startTime":1343.653,"endTime":1346.508,"body":"mess with it and they discard it."},{"startTime":1346.599,"endTime":1346.853,"body":"You know?"},{"startTime":1346.853,"endTime":1347.817,"body":"That's how you lose customers."},{"startTime":1347.908,"endTime":1350.608,"body":"So let's, so now it's a"},{"startTime":1347.908,"endTime":1350.608,"body":"mid-size company, let's say."},{"startTime":1350.662,"endTime":1352.59,"body":"Yeah we have, let's"},{"startTime":1350.662,"endTime":1352.59,"body":"assume we have product."},{"startTime":1352.644,"endTime":1352.917,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":1353.081,"endTime":1354.472,"body":"Because the other"},{"startTime":1353.081,"endTime":1354.472,"body":"alternative is much shorter."},{"startTime":1354.472,"endTime":1356.953,"body":"Talk about, oh, we have to, at this"},{"startTime":1354.472,"endTime":1356.953,"body":"point, if we have multiple products,"},{"startTime":1356.953,"endTime":1358.426,"body":"we have to have product people."},{"startTime":1358.426,"endTime":1361.317,"body":"At this point, there's gonna be at least"},{"startTime":1358.426,"endTime":1361.317,"body":"two products in the lower case, right?"},{"startTime":1361.322,"endTime":1361.426,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":1361.426,"endTime":1364.49,"body":"Because you have company A, company B"},{"startTime":1361.426,"endTime":1364.49,"body":"likely there's gonna be multiple products."},{"startTime":1364.49,"endTime":1364.572,"body":"Right?"},{"startTime":1364.817,"endTime":1366.508,"body":"So you have product, they come in."},{"startTime":1366.944,"endTime":1369.426,"body":"Now, what are some of the"},{"startTime":1366.944,"endTime":1369.426,"body":"issues that you see here?"},{"startTime":1370.026,"endTime":1373.572,"body":"It's now a single company, but"},{"startTime":1370.026,"endTime":1373.572,"body":"the mindsets of the company"},{"startTime":1373.917,"endTime":1375.635,"body":"staff are still divided."},{"startTime":1375.826,"endTime":1376.126,"body":"Okay."},{"startTime":1376.131,"endTime":1376.162,"body":"Okay."},{"startTime":1376.426,"endTime":1376.89,"body":"I'm going."},{"startTime":1376.89,"endTime":1378.008,"body":"I, I see where you're going."},{"startTime":1378.012,"endTime":1382.131,"body":"So, so the most obvious problem now"},{"startTime":1378.012,"endTime":1382.131,"body":"that we have right now is,  even if,"},{"startTime":1382.158,"endTime":1385.622,"body":"even if, let, let's say one company had"},{"startTime":1382.158,"endTime":1385.622,"body":"product people and one company did not."},{"startTime":1385.731,"endTime":1385.785,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":1385.785,"endTime":1386.631,"body":"Cause they had founders."},{"startTime":1386.631,"endTime":1386.822,"body":"Right?"},{"startTime":1386.831,"endTime":1387.012,"body":"Right."},{"startTime":1387.067,"endTime":1387.694,"body":"One, one company had it."},{"startTime":1387.803,"endTime":1390.122,"body":"The 20 person company, Brian and"},{"startTime":1387.803,"endTime":1390.122,"body":"Om's, software development firm had"},{"startTime":1390.122,"endTime":1392.222,"body":"founders and we knew everything."},{"startTime":1392.331,"endTime":1394.294,"body":"So you mean Well, you knew everything."},{"startTime":1394.299,"endTime":1395.885,"body":"And I just . I just waved,"},{"startTime":1394.299,"endTime":1395.885,"body":"took the money and ran."},{"startTime":1395.885,"endTime":1396.14,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":1396.14,"endTime":1400.103,"body":"I just waved my hands and took my money"},{"startTime":1396.14,"endTime":1400.103,"body":"and ran, cashed out I, I had the patent."},{"startTime":1400.131,"endTime":1401.794,"body":"That's what, that's what,"},{"startTime":1400.131,"endTime":1401.794,"body":"that's my contribution."},{"startTime":1401.794,"endTime":1405.526,"body":"I did the paperwork and and the other,"},{"startTime":1401.794,"endTime":1405.526,"body":"the other company, the acquiring"},{"startTime":1405.526,"endTime":1407.69,"body":"company now they have product people."},{"startTime":1407.717,"endTime":1409.808,"body":"So  there's a transition"},{"startTime":1407.717,"endTime":1409.808,"body":"period, you know what I mean?"},{"startTime":1409.808,"endTime":1412.29,"body":"You're working with their product people"},{"startTime":1409.808,"endTime":1412.29,"body":"and you're still kind of serving to"},{"startTime":1412.29,"endTime":1414.993,"body":"anchor the business until your  contract"},{"startTime":1412.29,"endTime":1414.993,"body":"is up at the end of the year and"},{"startTime":1414.993,"endTime":1416.216,"body":"then  you've cashed out or whatever."},{"startTime":1416.488,"endTime":1418.288,"body":"You've gotten your golden"},{"startTime":1416.488,"endTime":1418.288,"body":"parachute or whatever."},{"startTime":1418.652,"endTime":1420.288,"body":"And I was like, I don't know"},{"startTime":1418.652,"endTime":1420.288,"body":"why I'm harping on this so"},{"startTime":1420.288,"endTime":1422.279,"body":"much , because it's hilarious."},{"startTime":1422.325,"endTime":1426.47,"body":"What I think you will have problems"},{"startTime":1422.325,"endTime":1426.47,"body":"with is company A over here that"},{"startTime":1426.47,"endTime":1429.034,"body":"was run with the founders involved"},{"startTime":1426.47,"endTime":1429.034,"body":"and company B over here that like,"},{"startTime":1429.034,"endTime":1432.061,"body":"kind of like graduated to having,"},{"startTime":1429.034,"endTime":1432.061,"body":"like handing off the product people."},{"startTime":1432.416,"endTime":1434.597,"body":"What I expect is the product people"},{"startTime":1432.416,"endTime":1434.597,"body":"will come in and be like, okay"},{"startTime":1434.743,"endTime":1437.416,"body":"like we'll set up some product"},{"startTime":1434.743,"endTime":1437.416,"body":"stuff, we'll do some personas."},{"startTime":1437.42,"endTime":1439.27,"body":"We'll start learning our users,"},{"startTime":1437.42,"endTime":1439.27,"body":"like the, the product people"},{"startTime":1439.27,"endTime":1440.388,"body":"will know what needs to be done."},{"startTime":1440.884,"endTime":1441.129,"body":". Okay."},{"startTime":1441.293,"endTime":1444.184,"body":"Assuming they're not just marketing people"},{"startTime":1441.293,"endTime":1444.184,"body":"that are called product people, right."},{"startTime":1444.293,"endTime":1446.938,"body":"Assuming, assuming, but we'll, we're,"},{"startTime":1444.293,"endTime":1446.938,"body":"we're gonna go out on a limb and say"},{"startTime":1446.938,"endTime":1450.684,"body":"they have real product people for a"},{"startTime":1446.938,"endTime":1450.684,"body":"second what I do expect to happen is all"},{"startTime":1450.684,"endTime":1452.975,"body":"these people over here that would just"},{"startTime":1450.684,"endTime":1452.975,"body":"get together in a company meeting and"},{"startTime":1452.979,"endTime":1455.838,"body":"be like, this is what we did, and Oh,"},{"startTime":1452.979,"endTime":1455.838,"body":"this process isn't working and whatever."},{"startTime":1456.029,"endTime":1458.62,"body":"I expect the two companies"},{"startTime":1456.029,"endTime":1458.62,"body":"to have big problems sorting"},{"startTime":1458.62,"endTime":1460.747,"body":"out how things get delivered."},{"startTime":1461.047,"endTime":1465.984,"body":"Like maybe one, one organization is"},{"startTime":1461.047,"endTime":1465.984,"body":"completely on board with test driven"},{"startTime":1465.984,"endTime":1469.038,"body":"development and the other, other"},{"startTime":1465.984,"endTime":1469.038,"body":"organization basically like their product."},{"startTime":1469.043,"endTime":1471.411,"body":"People just like clicked through"},{"startTime":1469.043,"endTime":1471.411,"body":"the site when it went live"},{"startTime":1471.411,"endTime":1472.693,"body":"and said, this is good enough"},{"startTime":1472.975,"endTime":1476.029,"body":"one company went and installed"},{"startTime":1472.975,"endTime":1476.029,"body":"stuff at pajama parties in the"},{"startTime":1476.034,"endTime":1478.62,"body":"middle of the night on servers"},{"startTime":1476.034,"endTime":1478.62,"body":"and the other companies completely"},{"startTime":1478.62,"endTime":1480.911,"body":"containerized that they don't do that."},{"startTime":1480.911,"endTime":1483.17,"body":"There was some discussion about"},{"startTime":1480.911,"endTime":1483.17,"body":"like, wait a minute, wait a minute."},{"startTime":1483.552,"endTime":1484.616,"body":"You can't touch our server."},{"startTime":1485.079,"endTime":1485.379,"body":"Right?"},{"startTime":1485.488,"endTime":1485.706,"body":"Whoa."},{"startTime":1485.706,"endTime":1487.052,"body":"What do you mean we"},{"startTime":1485.706,"endTime":1487.052,"body":"can't touch the servers?"},{"startTime":1487.125,"endTime":1488.488,"body":"Like, how are we gonna"},{"startTime":1487.125,"endTime":1488.488,"body":"deploy any software?"},{"startTime":1488.488,"endTime":1489.206,"body":"We can't touch the servers?."},{"startTime":1489.525,"endTime":1494.216,"body":", that discussion now has to happen and"},{"startTime":1489.525,"endTime":1494.216,"body":"it's gotta happen with a fairly high"},{"startTime":1494.22,"endTime":1499.861,"body":"priority . So that the, the, the, what I"},{"startTime":1494.22,"endTime":1499.861,"body":"think of is a definition of done right?"},{"startTime":1499.861,"endTime":1504.797,"body":"But we're gonna, I'm trying not to use"},{"startTime":1499.861,"endTime":1504.797,"body":"terms that might scare people or whatever."},{"startTime":1504.797,"endTime":1507.143,"body":"I'm trying, I'm just trying to"},{"startTime":1504.797,"endTime":1507.143,"body":"say the w the ways of working."},{"startTime":1507.143,"endTime":1510.47,"body":"The process of how the software gets"},{"startTime":1507.143,"endTime":1510.47,"body":"developed needs to be discussed and"},{"startTime":1510.47,"endTime":1514.561,"body":"agreed on between the two teams so that"},{"startTime":1510.47,"endTime":1514.561,"body":"a definition of done can be established,"},{"startTime":1514.616,"endTime":1518.275,"body":"amended whatever between the teams and"},{"startTime":1514.616,"endTime":1518.275,"body":"then the other team that never did any"},{"startTime":1518.275,"endTime":1521.166,"body":"of that kind of stuff can kind of come up"},{"startTime":1518.275,"endTime":1521.166,"body":"the speed and learn what they need to do."},{"startTime":1521.329,"endTime":1525.366,"body":"So cuz you're merging two, two different"},{"startTime":1521.329,"endTime":1525.366,"body":"teams that do things differently."},{"startTime":1525.72,"endTime":1526.211,"body":"Absolutely."},{"startTime":1526.211,"endTime":1526.947,"body":"I agree fully."},{"startTime":1526.947,"endTime":1529.211,"body":"That's where I was going with"},{"startTime":1526.947,"endTime":1529.211,"body":"the mindset question, because"},{"startTime":1530.075,"endTime":1531.693,"body":"you're gonna human beings, right?"},{"startTime":1531.693,"endTime":1534.293,"body":"You're gonna get that the quicker"},{"startTime":1531.693,"endTime":1534.293,"body":"that's addressed the better."},{"startTime":1534.402,"endTime":1538.856,"body":"Usually the acquirer company is going"},{"startTime":1534.402,"endTime":1538.856,"body":"to basically put down the rules and say,"},{"startTime":1538.856,"endTime":1540.084,"body":"this is how we do things around here."},{"startTime":1540.47,"endTime":1544.234,"body":"At the smaller company we had"},{"startTime":1540.47,"endTime":1544.234,"body":"regular cycles of just adjusting"},{"startTime":1544.261,"endTime":1545.57,"body":"a little bit to get back on."},{"startTime":1546.306,"endTime":1549.225,"body":"Now when we're going through and we"},{"startTime":1546.306,"endTime":1549.225,"body":"have wildly different teams coming"},{"startTime":1549.225,"endTime":1552.752,"body":"together, so when the two teams come"},{"startTime":1549.225,"endTime":1552.752,"body":"together, they need to spend more time"},{"startTime":1552.943,"endTime":1556.734,"body":"upfront trying to figure out how they"},{"startTime":1552.943,"endTime":1556.734,"body":"can consolidate their ways of working,"},{"startTime":1557.797,"endTime":1561.97,"body":"to, to bring the two worlds together"},{"startTime":1557.797,"endTime":1561.97,"body":"to, to coexist and work together, right?"},{"startTime":1562.679,"endTime":1566.443,"body":"Just like a backlog, refinement"},{"startTime":1562.679,"endTime":1566.443,"body":"for a team that is brand new."},{"startTime":1566.661,"endTime":1569.152,"body":"So  if I'm leadership and"},{"startTime":1566.661,"endTime":1569.152,"body":"I say, Hey om thank, thanks"},{"startTime":1569.152,"endTime":1571.197,"body":"for , staying on at Brian and M's."},{"startTime":1571.202,"endTime":1572.206,"body":"Software development company."},{"startTime":1572.234,"endTime":1575.411,"body":"It's now just Om's development"},{"startTime":1572.234,"endTime":1575.411,"body":"company Om and Om plus corporate"},{"startTime":1575.411,"endTime":1576.738,"body":"overlord development company."},{"startTime":1577.12,"endTime":1580.534,"body":"Like, thanks for staying on , I need you"},{"startTime":1577.12,"endTime":1580.534,"body":"to , get these teams working together."},{"startTime":1580.916,"endTime":1581.106,"body":"Okay."},{"startTime":1581.106,"endTime":1583.766,"body":"Well, in order to do that if I were"},{"startTime":1581.106,"endTime":1583.766,"body":"to go to to you and say, Hey, you're"},{"startTime":1583.77,"endTime":1586.738,"body":"gonna develop a brand new product from"},{"startTime":1583.77,"endTime":1586.738,"body":"the ground up, you'll say, well, I, I"},{"startTime":1586.738,"endTime":1588.566,"body":"need some time to, to seed a backlog."},{"startTime":1588.92,"endTime":1590.584,"body":"I have to build a backlog"},{"startTime":1588.92,"endTime":1590.584,"body":"from the ground up."},{"startTime":1590.638,"endTime":1591.675,"body":"Like what's my first epic?"},{"startTime":1591.675,"endTime":1592.493,"body":"What's my second epic?"},{"startTime":1592.493,"endTime":1594.147,"body":"What's my what are my"},{"startTime":1592.493,"endTime":1594.147,"body":"initial, what are my goals?"},{"startTime":1594.147,"endTime":1595.129,"body":"What is my product vision?"},{"startTime":1595.32,"endTime":1595.484,"body":"Like?"},{"startTime":1595.484,"endTime":1597.884,"body":"You'll have to sit down with"},{"startTime":1595.484,"endTime":1597.884,"body":"your team, bring stakeholders in"},{"startTime":1597.884,"endTime":1599.52,"body":"and talk about it all together."},{"startTime":1599.52,"endTime":1599.575,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":1599.579,"endTime":1601.32,"body":"It's gonna take time."},{"startTime":1601.456,"endTime":1602.056,"body":"Absolutely."},{"startTime":1602.056,"endTime":1604.129,"body":"It's like reset for me, right."},{"startTime":1604.129,"endTime":1606.284,"body":"Coming from that small"},{"startTime":1604.129,"endTime":1606.284,"body":"company in this example."},{"startTime":1606.447,"endTime":1606.638,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":1606.643,"endTime":1607.238,"body":"It's a reset."},{"startTime":1607.243,"endTime":1607.784,"body":"It sure is."},{"startTime":1607.784,"endTime":1607.893,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":1607.893,"endTime":1609.72,"body":"So I'm gonna start with the basics, right?"},{"startTime":1609.911,"endTime":1611.247,"body":"Why are we in business, right?"},{"startTime":1611.275,"endTime":1613.811,"body":"I mean, we'll just start"},{"startTime":1611.275,"endTime":1613.811,"body":"there and, and go from there."},{"startTime":1613.838,"endTime":1617.084,"body":"Which is gonna be painful for the company"},{"startTime":1613.838,"endTime":1617.084,"body":"that's been around and just been doing"},{"startTime":1617.229,"endTime":1618.975,"body":"things that, their way, so to speak."},{"startTime":1618.979,"endTime":1619.293,"body":"Mm-hmm."},{"startTime":1619.366,"endTime":1622.138,"body":". Now, if they don't have good practices,"},{"startTime":1619.366,"endTime":1622.138,"body":"this is where the friction's gonna happen."},{"startTime":1622.143,"endTime":1624.838,"body":"The small company that got acquired, it's"},{"startTime":1622.143,"endTime":1624.838,"body":"gonna say, we had all that figured out."},{"startTime":1625.22,"endTime":1626.666,"body":"You are saying don't do that."},{"startTime":1626.993,"endTime":1629.256,"body":"You're deploying in the middle"},{"startTime":1626.993,"endTime":1629.256,"body":"of the night, all that stuff."},{"startTime":1629.256,"endTime":1633.375,"body":"What's gonna happen is there will be"},{"startTime":1629.256,"endTime":1633.375,"body":"some friction, maybe more than some,"},{"startTime":1633.511,"endTime":1634.902,"body":"you're gonna lose some good people."},{"startTime":1634.929,"endTime":1635.066,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":1635.12,"endTime":1636.293,"body":"That's what's gonna happen here."},{"startTime":1636.65,"endTime":1640.987,"body":"And we talked about this being an issue"},{"startTime":1636.65,"endTime":1640.987,"body":"on the, the how side, the how circle,"},{"startTime":1641.014,"endTime":1644.259,"body":"but it's also an issue in the what"},{"startTime":1641.014,"endTime":1644.259,"body":"circle, because ways of working are"},{"startTime":1644.259,"endTime":1645.705,"body":"different between the two companies."},{"startTime":1645.732,"endTime":1645.869,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":1646.032,"endTime":1649.387,"body":"You know, people are working"},{"startTime":1646.032,"endTime":1649.387,"body":"from different perspectives"},{"startTime":1649.387,"endTime":1651.35,"body":"from a larger company versus"},{"startTime":1649.387,"endTime":1651.35,"body":"small companies, small company."},{"startTime":1651.35,"endTime":1652.114,"body":"Maybe they, they."},{"startTime":1652.632,"endTime":1654.869,"body":"Their niche product that"},{"startTime":1652.632,"endTime":1654.869,"body":"hits certain personas."},{"startTime":1654.869,"endTime":1656.859,"body":"They've got those personas"},{"startTime":1654.869,"endTime":1656.859,"body":"well defined, et cetera."},{"startTime":1657.469,"endTime":1661.723,"body":"the larger company, on the other hand, may"},{"startTime":1657.469,"endTime":1661.723,"body":"or may not be in that same spot, right?"},{"startTime":1661.75,"endTime":1661.832,"body":"Mm-hmm."},{"startTime":1662.055,"endTime":1665.159,"body":". So again, you're gonna have those"},{"startTime":1662.055,"endTime":1665.159,"body":"issues there, probably less so"},{"startTime":1665.159,"endTime":1666.441,"body":"than in the how circle, but yes."},{"startTime":1666.446,"endTime":1667.887,"body":"You'll, you're still"},{"startTime":1666.446,"endTime":1667.887,"body":"gonna find them there."},{"startTime":1667.932,"endTime":1670.632,"body":"let's say for example, that whatever"},{"startTime":1667.932,"endTime":1670.632,"body":"exists of Brian and Om's software"},{"startTime":1670.65,"endTime":1673.323,"body":"development company in, in, its"},{"startTime":1670.65,"endTime":1673.323,"body":"in its current acquired form."},{"startTime":1673.596,"endTime":1679.796,"body":"I'm random, random corporate executive,"},{"startTime":1673.596,"endTime":1679.796,"body":"whatever, a CTO's, cfo, whatever, you"},{"startTime":1679.8,"endTime":1682.55,"body":"know what I mean, in the company and"},{"startTime":1679.8,"endTime":1682.55,"body":"I say okay, like enough of this, like"},{"startTime":1682.555,"endTime":1685.641,"body":"we need to integrate these companies"},{"startTime":1682.555,"endTime":1685.641,"body":"I'm gonna go out and I'm gonna hire"},{"startTime":1685.687,"endTime":1689.859,"body":"like a enterprise agile coach to make"},{"startTime":1685.687,"endTime":1689.859,"body":"sure that like we're, we're meshing and"},{"startTime":1689.859,"endTime":1691.523,"body":", we're integrating together over time."},{"startTime":1691.905,"endTime":1694.332,"body":"if you were to come into a company"},{"startTime":1691.905,"endTime":1694.332,"body":"like that where we're, we're"},{"startTime":1694.332,"endTime":1697.572,"body":"integrating two companies together"},{"startTime":1694.332,"endTime":1697.572,"body":"what would your game plan kind of be?"},{"startTime":1697.662,"endTime":1701.09,"body":"Would you go to say like, Hey like,"},{"startTime":1697.662,"endTime":1701.09,"body":"let's establish the definition of done."},{"startTime":1701.09,"endTime":1702.894,"body":"Let's do some basic"},{"startTime":1701.09,"endTime":1702.894,"body":"working together stuff."},{"startTime":1702.894,"endTime":1705.849,"body":"Because I, I would assume you would do"},{"startTime":1702.894,"endTime":1705.849,"body":"something like,  make sure that your"},{"startTime":1705.849,"endTime":1709.467,"body":"product, your product function is operat."},{"startTime":1709.808,"endTime":1710.762,"body":"Well, you know what I mean?"},{"startTime":1710.762,"endTime":1714.199,"body":"Communicating that kind of stuff, but"},{"startTime":1710.762,"endTime":1714.199,"body":"also development team to development"},{"startTime":1714.199,"endTime":1717.362,"body":"team, you know what I mean, in between"},{"startTime":1714.199,"endTime":1717.362,"body":"development teams is also cooperating"},{"startTime":1717.367,"endTime":1720.144,"body":"and talking to each other and working"},{"startTime":1717.367,"endTime":1720.144,"body":"together and stuff like that, you know?"},{"startTime":1720.253,"endTime":1720.69,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":1720.69,"endTime":1721.481,"body":"You're absolutely correct."},{"startTime":1721.481,"endTime":1722.926,"body":"So the first thing you said, you know?"},{"startTime":1723.117,"endTime":1723.335,"body":"Yes."},{"startTime":1723.335,"endTime":1725.353,"body":"Well, the first thing, first"},{"startTime":1723.335,"endTime":1725.353,"body":"thing I would do is nothing."},{"startTime":1725.353,"endTime":1726.417,"body":"I would probably just observe."},{"startTime":1726.444,"endTime":1726.553,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":1726.553,"endTime":1726.908,"body":"Observe, yeah."},{"startTime":1726.908,"endTime":1727.862,"body":"Figure out what's going on."},{"startTime":1727.862,"endTime":1727.944,"body":"Sure."},{"startTime":1728.053,"endTime":1731.308,"body":"And then come up with a game"},{"startTime":1728.053,"endTime":1731.308,"body":"plan, certainly will be based on"},{"startTime":1731.308,"endTime":1733.272,"body":"some base level education, right?"},{"startTime":1733.408,"endTime":1733.49,"body":"Mm-hmm."},{"startTime":1733.712,"endTime":1738.935,"body":". And the point thing there is not to"},{"startTime":1733.712,"endTime":1738.935,"body":"single out the acquirer company and train"},{"startTime":1739.453,"endTime":1744.49,"body":"that group of people only because you're"},{"startTime":1739.453,"endTime":1744.49,"body":"assuming based on your observation."},{"startTime":1744.49,"endTime":1747.926,"body":"So you're assuming that the company"},{"startTime":1744.49,"endTime":1747.926,"body":"that was acquired had everything"},{"startTime":1747.926,"endTime":1749.535,"body":"perfect which I haven't seen yet."},{"startTime":1749.617,"endTime":1749.699,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":1749.726,"endTime":1754.435,"body":"So everybody together do base level"},{"startTime":1749.726,"endTime":1754.435,"body":"sets of delivery of Agile education."},{"startTime":1754.435,"endTime":1755.172,"body":"We'll split it that way."},{"startTime":1755.826,"endTime":1759.372,"body":"Establish some good sound principles"},{"startTime":1755.826,"endTime":1759.372,"body":"and practices, get the tooling"},{"startTime":1759.372,"endTime":1761.062,"body":"set up where it makes sense."},{"startTime":1761.526,"endTime":1765.917,"body":"And then the, the next order of business"},{"startTime":1761.526,"endTime":1765.917,"body":"pretty soon actually for me is going to be"},{"startTime":1765.922,"endTime":1768.017,"body":"to integrate the teams in a literal sense."},{"startTime":1768.208,"endTime":1771.399,"body":"So this us and them thing,"},{"startTime":1768.208,"endTime":1771.399,"body":"it's what I have to break up."},{"startTime":1771.399,"endTime":1771.781,"body":"Right?"},{"startTime":1771.785,"endTime":1771.935,"body":"Right."},{"startTime":1771.94,"endTime":1772.026,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":1772.053,"endTime":1775.044,"body":"So I may take a developer"},{"startTime":1772.053,"endTime":1775.044,"body":"from the acquirer company"},{"startTime":1775.372,"endTime":1777.09,"body":"and put them in another team."},{"startTime":1777.117,"endTime":1777.199,"body":"Mm-hmm."},{"startTime":1777.444,"endTime":1778.426,"body":"from the other side."},{"startTime":1778.431,"endTime":1778.644,"body":"Mm-hmm."},{"startTime":1778.717,"endTime":1779.372,"body":"and vice versa."},{"startTime":1779.372,"endTime":1779.881,"body":"Mm-hmm."},{"startTime":1780.281,"endTime":1783.308,"body":"We talked about the how still,"},{"startTime":1780.281,"endTime":1783.308,"body":"but even on the product side,"},{"startTime":1783.608,"endTime":1784.726,"body":"do the same sort of thing."},{"startTime":1784.731,"endTime":1786.472,"body":"Let them understand their ways of working."},{"startTime":1786.476,"endTime":1786.653,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":1786.653,"endTime":1790.126,"body":"Let them commonly agree or"},{"startTime":1786.653,"endTime":1790.126,"body":"disagree on why are they in."},{"startTime":1790.999,"endTime":1792.308,"body":"Who are the customers?"},{"startTime":1792.472,"endTime":1793.535,"body":"What are the products?"},{"startTime":1793.562,"endTime":1795.444,"body":"How can the customers be served best?"},{"startTime":1795.444,"endTime":1795.608,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":1795.826,"endTime":1797.162,"body":"What are our delivery channels?"},{"startTime":1797.162,"endTime":1800.79,"body":"I mean, the whole plethora of questions"},{"startTime":1797.162,"endTime":1800.79,"body":"so that will be the game plan initially,"},{"startTime":1800.899,"endTime":1803.299,"body":"but you'd still have to put out"},{"startTime":1800.899,"endTime":1803.299,"body":"some markers out there to say, how"},{"startTime":1803.299,"endTime":1804.608,"body":"do you know if it's working well?"},{"startTime":1804.662,"endTime":1805.617,"body":"Right, right, right"},{"startTime":1805.708,"endTime":1808.544,"body":"once you get into that integration"},{"startTime":1805.708,"endTime":1808.544,"body":"phase, you'll be able to gauge as an"},{"startTime":1808.544,"endTime":1812.035,"body":"edge coach, you can gauge how well it's"},{"startTime":1808.544,"endTime":1812.035,"body":"going after a very short period of time."},{"startTime":1812.04,"endTime":1812.244,"body":"Mm-hmm."},{"startTime":1812.317,"endTime":1813.735,"body":", like literally maybe a month."},{"startTime":1813.735,"endTime":1814.099,"body":"Mm-hmm."},{"startTime":1814.226,"endTime":1816.462,"body":"And you make minor"},{"startTime":1814.226,"endTime":1816.462,"body":"adjustments to the process."},{"startTime":1816.462,"endTime":1820.99,"body":"Now it's not the time to really make"},{"startTime":1816.462,"endTime":1820.99,"body":"big adjustments because the whole"},{"startTime":1820.99,"endTime":1824.162,"body":"thing can come tumbling down because"},{"startTime":1820.99,"endTime":1824.162,"body":"people haven't really established"},{"startTime":1824.162,"endTime":1825.444,"body":"that trust with one another yet."},{"startTime":1825.772,"endTime":1828.962,"body":"So, minor adjustments"},{"startTime":1825.772,"endTime":1828.962,"body":"and minor improvements."},{"startTime":1829.508,"endTime":1832.926,"body":"Building up the, the product side,"},{"startTime":1829.508,"endTime":1832.926,"body":"and the how, the development side."},{"startTime":1833.172,"endTime":1833.362,"body":"All right."},{"startTime":1833.362,"endTime":1836.19,"body":"I mean, the third side that"},{"startTime":1833.362,"endTime":1836.19,"body":"is almost always not discussed"},{"startTime":1836.353,"endTime":1837.253,"body":"is the leadership side."},{"startTime":1837.281,"endTime":1839.19,"body":"Cuz now you've got leadership"},{"startTime":1837.281,"endTime":1839.19,"body":"from both sides too."},{"startTime":1839.462,"endTime":1840.062,"body":"Well, that's right."},{"startTime":1840.272,"endTime":1844.063,"body":"I, I feel at the point where I like"},{"startTime":1840.272,"endTime":1844.063,"body":"the, the CFO or CEO or whatever, I, I"},{"startTime":1844.068,"endTime":1848.353,"body":"feel at the point where I bring you in"},{"startTime":1844.068,"endTime":1848.353,"body":"as an enterprise agile coach, like I'm"},{"startTime":1848.353,"endTime":1852.444,"body":"bringing, I'm also bringing you in to"},{"startTime":1848.353,"endTime":1852.444,"body":"tell me like what, what am, like if I'm"},{"startTime":1852.444,"endTime":1855.881,"body":"the cfo, for example, just, just, just"},{"startTime":1852.444,"endTime":1855.881,"body":"to pick a random C-level executive."},{"startTime":1855.962,"endTime":1856.208,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":1856.212,"endTime":1858.581,"body":"I, I could pick operations or"},{"startTime":1856.212,"endTime":1858.581,"body":"the ceo, I really could pick"},{"startTime":1858.581,"endTime":1860.053,"body":"anyone I'm picking on the cfo."},{"startTime":1860.053,"endTime":1863.508,"body":"Cuz the easy, easiest to say like why am"},{"startTime":1860.053,"endTime":1863.508,"body":"I paying for all these development teams?"},{"startTime":1863.562,"endTime":1863.753,"body":"Mm-hmm."},{"startTime":1863.972,"endTime":1864.462,"body":"like, what, why?"},{"startTime":1864.572,"endTime":1867.872,"body":"Like, Hey, I acquired this other company"},{"startTime":1864.572,"endTime":1867.872,"body":"and I got all their backend systems and"},{"startTime":1867.872,"endTime":1869.481,"body":"I go their source code and whatever."},{"startTime":1869.781,"endTime":1873.662,"body":"Why don't I just fire their"},{"startTime":1869.781,"endTime":1873.662,"body":"entire team and  my developers can"},{"startTime":1873.662,"endTime":1875.026,"body":"maintain their product backlog."},{"startTime":1875.19,"endTime":1878.244,"body":"I don't understand why I have two"},{"startTime":1875.19,"endTime":1878.244,"body":"like I, I, so I'm bringing on an"},{"startTime":1878.362,"endTime":1880.767,"body":"agile, agile coach to basically"},{"startTime":1878.362,"endTime":1880.767,"body":"tell me like,  cuz I don't know"},{"startTime":1880.767,"endTime":1883.003,"body":"anything about developing software."},{"startTime":1883.44,"endTime":1886.058,"body":"So not only am I bringing"},{"startTime":1883.44,"endTime":1886.058,"body":"on an agile coach to help me"},{"startTime":1886.062,"endTime":1888.131,"body":"understand what I'm paying for,"},{"startTime":1888.403,"endTime":1891.731,"body":"Again, the, the people at the top of"},{"startTime":1888.403,"endTime":1891.731,"body":"the company that pay the bills and"},{"startTime":1891.731,"endTime":1895.276,"body":"stuff like that, like they, they, I"},{"startTime":1891.731,"endTime":1895.276,"body":"can't expect them to be experts in"},{"startTime":1895.276,"endTime":1896.231,"body":"what works in software development."},{"startTime":1896.231,"endTime":1899.694,"body":"So they're gonna bring somebody in to"},{"startTime":1896.231,"endTime":1899.694,"body":"help them, even if it's only whatever,"},{"startTime":1899.694,"endTime":1900.976,"body":"three months, six months, whatever it is."},{"startTime":1901.931,"endTime":1902.231,"body":"Yep."},{"startTime":1902.503,"endTime":1906.19,"body":"That, that's kind of why I'm going"},{"startTime":1902.503,"endTime":1906.19,"body":"down this road of hey, maybe the"},{"startTime":1906.194,"endTime":1907.99,"body":"people at the top are looking for help."},{"startTime":1908.317,"endTime":1912.435,"body":"Or I say people at some, maybe the people"},{"startTime":1908.317,"endTime":1912.435,"body":"upstream are looking for help on how"},{"startTime":1912.435,"endTime":1915.762,"body":"to better communicate and, maybe the"},{"startTime":1912.435,"endTime":1915.762,"body":"people dealing with the what and the"},{"startTime":1915.762,"endTime":1921.681,"body":"people dealing with the, how maybe they"},{"startTime":1915.762,"endTime":1921.681,"body":"are loaded to their max with all of the"},{"startTime":1921.79,"endTime":1923.808,"body":"activities in the, in the, in the company."},{"startTime":1924.272,"endTime":1927.562,"body":"And I, I'm gonna bring on somebody"},{"startTime":1924.272,"endTime":1927.562,"body":"to kind of be a a, they're"},{"startTime":1927.562,"endTime":1928.817,"body":"out of the day-to-day work."},{"startTime":1929.172,"endTime":1932.817,"body":"They have the ability to be with"},{"startTime":1929.172,"endTime":1932.817,"body":"me at a leadership level to give"},{"startTime":1932.817,"endTime":1937.672,"body":"me a, a clear opinion, an unbiased"},{"startTime":1932.817,"endTime":1937.672,"body":"opinion,  with clarity, because they're"},{"startTime":1937.672,"endTime":1939.253,"body":"not stuck in the day-to-day work."},{"startTime":1939.253,"endTime":1939.772,"body":"That's what I'm trying to say."},{"startTime":1939.772,"endTime":1942.526,"body":"Yeah, no, I think they used"},{"startTime":1939.772,"endTime":1942.526,"body":"the word there, unbiased."},{"startTime":1942.526,"endTime":1947.008,"body":"I mean, somebody coming in isn't"},{"startTime":1942.526,"endTime":1947.008,"body":"really vested in one side or"},{"startTime":1947.008,"endTime":1948.29,"body":"the other, or any side really."},{"startTime":1948.29,"endTime":1951.617,"body":"They're just coming in looking at it"},{"startTime":1948.29,"endTime":1951.617,"body":"and kind of almost holding up the mirror"},{"startTime":1951.617,"endTime":1953.39,"body":"and say, this is how you guys look."},{"startTime":1953.499,"endTime":1954.344,"body":"Right, right, right."},{"startTime":1954.344,"endTime":1957.562,"body":"Now let, let's just acknowledge that"},{"startTime":1954.344,"endTime":1957.562,"body":"the status quo and then how we go"},{"startTime":1957.567,"endTime":1961.899,"body":"forward from here is that's when I would"},{"startTime":1957.567,"endTime":1961.899,"body":"partner with the, the leaders, like the"},{"startTime":1962.299,"endTime":1963.317,"body":"directors of development, et cetera."},{"startTime":1963.344,"endTime":1963.608,"body":"Right, right."},{"startTime":1963.726,"endTime":1966.399,"body":"This skills matrix and say"},{"startTime":1963.726,"endTime":1966.399,"body":"there's some justification."},{"startTime":1966.399,"endTime":1969.153,"body":"Get the hard data and say, you"},{"startTime":1966.399,"endTime":1969.153,"body":"really cannot support that product."},{"startTime":1969.153,"endTime":1970.626,"body":"You cannot fire all these people."},{"startTime":1970.681,"endTime":1970.817,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":1970.844,"endTime":1974.281,"body":"Maybe, maybe we can do some"},{"startTime":1970.844,"endTime":1974.281,"body":"reorg, but it would be foolish to"},{"startTime":1974.281,"endTime":1975.781,"body":"say you can just cut this loss."},{"startTime":1975.785,"endTime":1979.272,"body":"Right, and take 'em off the spreadsheet"},{"startTime":1975.785,"endTime":1979.272,"body":"that that's not how it should go."},{"startTime":1979.49,"endTime":1980.281,"body":"Maybe, I don't know."},{"startTime":1980.444,"endTime":1980.526,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":1980.526,"endTime":1984.072,"body":"But that's the sort of thing that"},{"startTime":1980.526,"endTime":1984.072,"body":"you would do is go in there reason,"},{"startTime":1984.072,"endTime":1988.285,"body":"armed with evidence that, this is"},{"startTime":1984.072,"endTime":1988.285,"body":"your proposal and this is why, and"},{"startTime":1988.285,"endTime":1989.567,"body":"the, and the numbers back you up."},{"startTime":1989.64,"endTime":1993.54,"body":"I want to ask you what the ideal"},{"startTime":1989.64,"endTime":1993.54,"body":"situation looks like, at least"},{"startTime":1993.54,"endTime":1995.776,"body":"as close to, to it as we can get."},{"startTime":1996.022,"endTime":2000.494,"body":"What I think the ideal situation looks"},{"startTime":1996.022,"endTime":2000.494,"body":"like is all of the product managers"},{"startTime":2000.549,"endTime":2003.685,"body":"with, I don't know, maybe a rep from"},{"startTime":2000.549,"endTime":2003.685,"body":"each team or whatever, all the product"},{"startTime":2003.685,"endTime":2006.167,"body":"managers basically are meeting on"},{"startTime":2003.685,"endTime":2006.167,"body":"a regular basis, regular cadence."},{"startTime":2006.212,"endTime":2007.44,"body":"I'm just picking numbers outta the air."},{"startTime":2007.467,"endTime":2010.749,"body":"It could be whatever it is for your"},{"startTime":2007.467,"endTime":2010.749,"body":"organization, but for, for Brian \u0026 Om's"},{"startTime":2011.326,"endTime":2015.272,"body":"development company  we've chosen the"},{"startTime":2011.326,"endTime":2015.272,"body":"proper cadence is once per iteration."},{"startTime":2015.326,"endTime":2018.681,"body":"All the product managers are gonna get"},{"startTime":2015.326,"endTime":2018.681,"body":"together, talk about what's upcoming,"},{"startTime":2018.899,"endTime":2021.544,"body":"talk about the, the initiatives"},{"startTime":2018.899,"endTime":2021.544,"body":"that the business wants to get into."},{"startTime":2021.735,"endTime":2026.044,"body":"We're gonna have reps on that call"},{"startTime":2021.735,"endTime":2026.044,"body":"from all around the business, and we're"},{"startTime":2026.044,"endTime":2029.835,"body":"gonna have the decision makers from"},{"startTime":2026.044,"endTime":2029.835,"body":"the business on the call to say, yes,"},{"startTime":2029.835,"endTime":2031.144,"body":"this is what I want to commit money to."},{"startTime":2031.144,"endTime":2034.635,"body":"Or or maybe, no, I don't"},{"startTime":2031.144,"endTime":2034.635,"body":"want to commit money to that."},{"startTime":2034.635,"endTime":2038.944,"body":"Or maybe, maybe like, Yes, I do want to"},{"startTime":2034.635,"endTime":2038.944,"body":"commit money,  only a little tiny bit or"},{"startTime":2038.99,"endTime":2043.117,"body":"you need to prove that there is a, a, a"},{"startTime":2038.99,"endTime":2043.117,"body":"market there before I commit money to it."},{"startTime":2043.117,"endTime":2044.508,"body":"I've seen that a million, million times."},{"startTime":2044.672,"endTime":2048.308,"body":"Yeah that happens on a regular cadence"},{"startTime":2044.672,"endTime":2048.308,"body":"and it's, it's constantly going forward."},{"startTime":2048.444,"endTime":2052.644,"body":"That gives leadership confidence that"},{"startTime":2048.444,"endTime":2052.644,"body":"the product people are moving forward"},{"startTime":2052.644,"endTime":2054.199,"body":"with the top business priorities."},{"startTime":2056.244,"endTime":2061.672,"body":"While that's going on, there is"},{"startTime":2056.244,"endTime":2061.672,"body":"meetings happening on a regular cadence"},{"startTime":2061.672,"endTime":2066.526,"body":"as well with everybody from each of"},{"startTime":2061.672,"endTime":2066.526,"body":"the development teams to say, these"},{"startTime":2066.526,"endTime":2067.562,"body":"are the things we're working on."},{"startTime":2067.999,"endTime":2069.853,"body":"This is how it might interact"},{"startTime":2067.999,"endTime":2069.853,"body":"with the other teams."},{"startTime":2069.853,"endTime":2071.599,"body":"This is how it might not"},{"startTime":2069.853,"endTime":2071.599,"body":"interact with the other teams."},{"startTime":2071.79,"endTime":2074.299,"body":"Also, in addition to that,"},{"startTime":2071.79,"endTime":2074.299,"body":"they're saying, what can we be"},{"startTime":2074.303,"endTime":2080.694,"body":"doing process-wise to improve the"},{"startTime":2074.303,"endTime":2080.694,"body":"lives of all the teams, together."},{"startTime":2081.949,"endTime":2084.894,"body":"Product might sit as like a stakeholder"},{"startTime":2081.949,"endTime":2084.894,"body":"in that conversation, but product"},{"startTime":2085.903,"endTime":2088.44,"body":"normally that, that, that meeting"},{"startTime":2085.903,"endTime":2088.44,"body":"is probably like, so in the weeds."},{"startTime":2088.44,"endTime":2091.249,"body":"That product is just like"},{"startTime":2088.44,"endTime":2091.249,"body":"multitasking and listening and"},{"startTime":2091.249,"endTime":2091.931,"body":"whatever, you know what I mean?"},{"startTime":2092.067,"endTime":2094.194,"body":"And in case they're called on, they're,"},{"startTime":2092.067,"endTime":2094.194,"body":"that's the only reason they're on that"},{"startTime":2094.194,"endTime":2098.503,"body":"call  the, so assuming we're at a point"},{"startTime":2094.194,"endTime":2098.503,"body":"now in our company where we have those"},{"startTime":2098.503,"endTime":2102.431,"body":"two processes working and both are"},{"startTime":2098.503,"endTime":2102.431,"body":"healthy a producing healthy results."},{"startTime":2102.431,"endTime":2103.112,"body":"That's what I was gonna say."},{"startTime":2103.385,"endTime":2103.576,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":2103.576,"endTime":2107.203,"body":"I, I fully concur that in that"},{"startTime":2103.576,"endTime":2107.203,"body":"scenario where product is meeting"},{"startTime":2107.203,"endTime":2110.994,"body":"on a regular cadence probably"},{"startTime":2107.203,"endTime":2110.994,"body":"depends on a lot of stuff, right?"},{"startTime":2111.022,"endTime":2115.794,"body":"The nature of the product to what degree,"},{"startTime":2111.022,"endTime":2115.794,"body":"various products, it could be several"},{"startTime":2115.794,"endTime":2116.94,"body":"dependencies, et cetera, et cetera."},{"startTime":2116.944,"endTime":2117.022,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":2117.158,"endTime":2119.631,"body":"Yeah but let's assume that the"},{"startTime":2117.158,"endTime":2119.631,"body":"process is working pretty well."},{"startTime":2119.912,"endTime":2123.094,"body":"When the the how side that"},{"startTime":2119.912,"endTime":2123.094,"body":"circle when they're meeting for"},{"startTime":2123.094,"endTime":2125.003,"body":"process improvement, then yes."},{"startTime":2125.003,"endTime":2127.512,"body":"Products at the table,"},{"startTime":2125.003,"endTime":2127.512,"body":"more of an eye on the RACI."},{"startTime":2127.772,"endTime":2131.644,"body":"More informed maybe, maybe c maybe"},{"startTime":2127.772,"endTime":2131.644,"body":"consulted if there's something that"},{"startTime":2132.535,"endTime":2135.272,"body":"we want to change about the intake"},{"startTime":2132.535,"endTime":2135.272,"body":"process or whatever it might be."},{"startTime":2135.599,"endTime":2138.303,"body":"So in that scenario, yes,"},{"startTime":2135.599,"endTime":2138.303,"body":"but mostly it's the eyes that"},{"startTime":2138.303,"endTime":2139.64,"body":"there, this there is informed."},{"startTime":2139.994,"endTime":2143.04,"body":"I also wanna say you asked"},{"startTime":2139.994,"endTime":2143.04,"body":"about the ideal situation."},{"startTime":2143.04,"endTime":2146.094,"body":"So if I had the magic wand,"},{"startTime":2143.04,"endTime":2146.094,"body":"the ideal situation would be"},{"startTime":2146.094,"endTime":2148.003,"body":"that vice versa would be true."},{"startTime":2148.003,"endTime":2152.231,"body":"So when product is engaged in"},{"startTime":2148.003,"endTime":2152.231,"body":"conversations about product, you"},{"startTime":2152.231,"endTime":2157.14,"body":"would have somebody may maybe multiple"},{"startTime":2152.231,"endTime":2157.14,"body":"people from the how cycle attend those"},{"startTime":2157.14,"endTime":2160.976,"body":"meetings to primarily to understand,"},{"startTime":2157.14,"endTime":2160.976,"body":"but also to interject when things are"},{"startTime":2160.976,"endTime":2165.503,"body":"getting to a point where technologically"},{"startTime":2160.976,"endTime":2165.503,"body":"feasibility becomes fuzzy, right?"},{"startTime":2165.558,"endTime":2165.612,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":2165.612,"endTime":2168.885,"body":"They, so for example, they say,"},{"startTime":2165.612,"endTime":2168.885,"body":"well, can we do this, this, and this?"},{"startTime":2169.022,"endTime":2171.822,"body":"And we, we can do that on five"},{"startTime":2169.022,"endTime":2171.822,"body":"different mobile platforms or however"},{"startTime":2171.822,"endTime":2172.849,"body":"many there, there might be, right?"},{"startTime":2172.849,"endTime":2176.585,"body":"Yeah uh, development can, can say,"},{"startTime":2172.849,"endTime":2176.585,"body":"You really cannot do that right now."},{"startTime":2176.59,"endTime":2179.067,"body":"Uhhuh,  maybe next year or whatever,"},{"startTime":2176.59,"endTime":2179.067,"body":"whatever might be the case."},{"startTime":2179.149,"endTime":2179.258,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":2179.64,"endTime":2183.103,"body":"So hearing those pivots early on and"},{"startTime":2179.64,"endTime":2183.103,"body":"getting to pivot early on is key."},{"startTime":2183.34,"endTime":2183.485,"body":"Mm-hmm."},{"startTime":2183.562,"endTime":2188.067,"body":", instead of going down the road in terms"},{"startTime":2183.562,"endTime":2188.067,"body":"of product ideation and then coming"},{"startTime":2188.067,"endTime":2189.24,"body":"back saying, this is what we want."},{"startTime":2189.244,"endTime":2192.622,"body":"And that's when the development folks"},{"startTime":2189.244,"endTime":2192.622,"body":"will go away, the architects maybe mm-hmm."},{"startTime":2192.99,"endTime":2195.64,"body":"go, come back and say, no, it can't"},{"startTime":2192.99,"endTime":2195.64,"body":"be done with these three platforms."},{"startTime":2195.644,"endTime":2195.653,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":2196.167,"endTime":2197.885,"body":"That's, that's shortening the chain."},{"startTime":2197.94,"endTime":2197.994,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":2197.999,"endTime":2200.385,"body":"And that's very, very easy to do."},{"startTime":2200.603,"endTime":2202.353,"body":"Cause , you're having the same"},{"startTime":2200.603,"endTime":2202.353,"body":"meeting, you're just having"},{"startTime":2202.358,"endTime":2204.262,"body":"it now instead of then mm-hmm."},{"startTime":2204.485,"endTime":2205.14,"body":"Months later."},{"startTime":2205.412,"endTime":2207.867,"body":"So that would be something that"},{"startTime":2205.412,"endTime":2207.867,"body":"I would, in an ideal situation,"},{"startTime":2207.867,"endTime":2208.767,"body":"would love to see that."},{"startTime":2208.849,"endTime":2209.176,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":2209.949,"endTime":2213.676,"body":"I wanna dig into the, the"},{"startTime":2209.949,"endTime":2213.676,"body":"multi-product environment that, that"},{"startTime":2213.676,"endTime":2214.822,"body":"you were talking about right there."},{"startTime":2215.285,"endTime":2219.103,"body":"If there are multiple products,"},{"startTime":2215.285,"endTime":2219.103,"body":"each product having its own roadmap,"},{"startTime":2219.485,"endTime":2223.003,"body":"like now there is like, there's the"},{"startTime":2219.485,"endTime":2223.003,"body":"what meeting, you know what I mean?"},{"startTime":2223.085,"endTime":2225.649,"body":"Of like, here's what's going on"},{"startTime":2223.085,"endTime":2225.649,"body":"in the business and now that,"},{"startTime":2225.649,"endTime":2229.331,"body":"that what meeting spans multiple"},{"startTime":2225.649,"endTime":2229.331,"body":"roadmaps for different products."},{"startTime":2229.767,"endTime":2235.331,"body":"I feel there's a higher level"},{"startTime":2229.767,"endTime":2235.331,"body":"meeting now that is, is basically."},{"startTime":2236.253,"endTime":2239.526,"body":"A high level business intake, like"},{"startTime":2236.253,"endTime":2239.526,"body":"the, like the, the true leaders"},{"startTime":2239.526,"endTime":2243.272,"body":"of the business saying, Hey, we"},{"startTime":2239.526,"endTime":2243.272,"body":"need to, I'll give you just here's"},{"startTime":2243.272,"endTime":2244.462,"body":"a random example outta the air."},{"startTime":2244.662,"endTime":2245.781,"body":"I'm gonna go with this example."},{"startTime":2245.781,"endTime":2246.544,"body":"It's not a great example."},{"startTime":2246.572,"endTime":2249.34,"body":"Hey, we're in a recession,"},{"startTime":2246.572,"endTime":2249.34,"body":"and our customers are all"},{"startTime":2249.503,"endTime":2250.567,"body":"not doing great financially."},{"startTime":2250.567,"endTime":2253.185,"body":"So this is not a great year"},{"startTime":2250.567,"endTime":2253.185,"body":"to raise prices by 10%."},{"startTime":2253.54,"endTime":2255.612,"body":"So we're gonna lock in"},{"startTime":2253.54,"endTime":2255.612,"body":"prices with a 2% raise."},{"startTime":2255.831,"endTime":2258.094,"body":"So we don't have a lot of"},{"startTime":2255.831,"endTime":2258.094,"body":"money to give employees."},{"startTime":2258.094,"endTime":2261.422,"body":"So what we need to do in order to have"},{"startTime":2258.094,"endTime":2261.422,"body":"a little bit of extra bandwidth this"},{"startTime":2261.422,"endTime":2267.244,"body":"year, Is we need to reduce the cost of"},{"startTime":2261.422,"endTime":2267.244,"body":"maintaining all of our systems by 10%."},{"startTime":2267.735,"endTime":2273.826,"body":"So now I, I, as leadership, go to product"},{"startTime":2267.735,"endTime":2273.826,"body":"and say, Hey you need to bring to your"},{"startTime":2273.831,"endTime":2278.735,"body":"teams, we need to reduce the cost of all"},{"startTime":2273.831,"endTime":2278.735,"body":"over the systems across the board, 10%."},{"startTime":2279.053,"endTime":2284.181,"body":"The business objective I'm looking for"},{"startTime":2279.053,"endTime":2284.181,"body":"is my final number for what it costs to"},{"startTime":2284.181,"endTime":2287.372,"body":"run all of the systems, teams, employees."},{"startTime":2287.376,"endTime":2291.381,"body":"Everything is 10% less than what"},{"startTime":2287.376,"endTime":2291.381,"body":"it was last year, so go figure"},{"startTime":2291.385,"endTime":2292.526,"body":"out how to implement that."},{"startTime":2292.526,"endTime":2296.099,"body":"Now, whether that's a reduction in the"},{"startTime":2292.526,"endTime":2296.099,"body":"amount of servers, whether whatever it"},{"startTime":2296.099,"endTime":2300.499,"body":"is, I don't know what it is, but, there's"},{"startTime":2296.099,"endTime":2300.499,"body":"now a higher level like leadership"},{"startTime":2300.99,"endTime":2306.172,"body":"coming down, and now all of my individual"},{"startTime":2300.99,"endTime":2306.172,"body":"products that have their own roadmaps"},{"startTime":2306.335,"endTime":2309.117,"body":"are figuring out how to take this,"},{"startTime":2306.335,"endTime":2309.117,"body":"oh, this is the number one priority."},{"startTime":2309.122,"endTime":2312.526,"body":"Now they're figuring out how to take"},{"startTime":2309.122,"endTime":2312.526,"body":"this and bring it back to their backlogs."},{"startTime":2312.962,"endTime":2315.826,"body":"And engage your teams to say,"},{"startTime":2312.962,"endTime":2315.826,"body":"what can we save money on?"},{"startTime":2316.099,"endTime":2317.108,"body":"What can we reduce?"},{"startTime":2317.299,"endTime":2319.044,"body":"Can we do some cleanup on the database?"},{"startTime":2319.044,"endTime":2320.899,"body":"Can we reduce the number of servers?"},{"startTime":2320.899,"endTime":2324.017,"body":"Can we reduce our spend on"},{"startTime":2320.899,"endTime":2324.017,"body":"Azure or whatever, whatever"},{"startTime":2324.017,"endTime":2324.644,"body":"you're spending money on?"},{"startTime":2324.644,"endTime":2324.908,"body":"I don't know."},{"startTime":2324.908,"endTime":2326.581,"body":"I'm, I don't, no, that's a fair point."},{"startTime":2326.585,"endTime":2330.89,"body":"So when it comes down from up on high"},{"startTime":2326.585,"endTime":2330.89,"body":"like that as a business initiative, you're"},{"startTime":2330.89,"endTime":2335.335,"body":"almost looking at senior leadership,"},{"startTime":2330.89,"endTime":2335.335,"body":"deciding where they're putting their"},{"startTime":2335.34,"endTime":2337.162,"body":"money or cutting their costs, right?"},{"startTime":2337.162,"endTime":2340.89,"body":"Sure and that, that does transcend"},{"startTime":2337.162,"endTime":2340.89,"body":"all of the different lines of product."},{"startTime":2341.362,"endTime":2345.481,"body":"so everybody that has a product that the"},{"startTime":2341.362,"endTime":2345.481,"body":"product folks will take that objective"},{"startTime":2345.481,"endTime":2349.312,"body":"and then go to their teams and figure out,"},{"startTime":2345.481,"endTime":2349.312,"body":", but there's value in them talking to one"},{"startTime":2349.312,"endTime":2350.922,"body":"another about that objective as well."},{"startTime":2350.949,"endTime":2351.303,"body":"Right?"},{"startTime":2351.44,"endTime":2351.522,"body":"Sure."},{"startTime":2351.522,"endTime":2355.212,"body":"For example, just taking that, that,"},{"startTime":2351.522,"endTime":2355.212,"body":"that example you cited you wanna cut"},{"startTime":2355.212,"endTime":2358.758,"body":"the cost by 10%, you're gonna engage"},{"startTime":2355.212,"endTime":2358.758,"body":"with your ops folks, et cetera."},{"startTime":2358.812,"endTime":2358.894,"body":"Mm-hmm."},{"startTime":2359.117,"endTime":2359.658,"body":", that's fine."},{"startTime":2359.658,"endTime":2362.676,"body":"Maybe you come up with some creativity"},{"startTime":2359.658,"endTime":2362.676,"body":"there maybe you can say we've"},{"startTime":2362.681,"endTime":2366.276,"body":"been very good to our customers"},{"startTime":2362.681,"endTime":2366.276,"body":"when it comes to support, right?"},{"startTime":2366.422,"endTime":2369.531,"body":"we've always had people available to"},{"startTime":2366.422,"endTime":2369.531,"body":"answer the phones twenty four seven."},{"startTime":2369.776,"endTime":2374.331,"body":"Now, what we're gonna do is to say that,"},{"startTime":2369.776,"endTime":2374.331,"body":"that answering the phone, they only get"},{"startTime":2374.335,"endTime":2376.403,"body":"that between say, nine to five, right?"},{"startTime":2376.594,"endTime":2379.049,"body":"Outside of that, there's a premium"},{"startTime":2376.594,"endTime":2379.049,"body":"to be paid if they want the"},{"startTime":2379.053,"endTime":2381.335,"body":"answer so try and try and raise"},{"startTime":2379.053,"endTime":2381.335,"body":"a little bit of money that way."},{"startTime":2381.335,"endTime":2381.472,"body":"Sure."},{"startTime":2381.662,"endTime":2384.862,"body":"Another example is maintenance"},{"startTime":2381.662,"endTime":2384.862,"body":"contracts that the customers are on."},{"startTime":2385.299,"endTime":2385.381,"body":"Mm-hmm."},{"startTime":2385.599,"endTime":2388.953,"body":", get them to sign up for"},{"startTime":2385.599,"endTime":2388.953,"body":"multi-year contracts, even if"},{"startTime":2388.958,"endTime":2390.099,"body":"it means a sliding discount."},{"startTime":2390.208,"endTime":2390.29,"body":"Mm-hmm."},{"startTime":2390.512,"endTime":2391.626,"body":", so you get the cash upfront."},{"startTime":2391.681,"endTime":2391.762,"body":"Mm-hmm."},{"startTime":2392.026,"endTime":2392.735,"body":"There's all these things."},{"startTime":2392.735,"endTime":2394.399,"body":"The reason I, I mentioned"},{"startTime":2392.735,"endTime":2394.399,"body":"those two things is."},{"startTime":2394.753,"endTime":2396.935,"body":"When you think about cutting"},{"startTime":2394.753,"endTime":2396.935,"body":"costs, everybody goes straight"},{"startTime":2396.935,"endTime":2398.272,"body":"to how do we cut costs?"},{"startTime":2398.272,"endTime":2398.817,"body":"Fire everyone."},{"startTime":2398.844,"endTime":2398.981,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":2398.981,"endTime":2399.826,"body":"Fire everybody."},{"startTime":2399.826,"endTime":2402.035,"body":"Shut down servers spin 'em"},{"startTime":2399.826,"endTime":2402.035,"body":"down when you're not using 'em."},{"startTime":2402.035,"endTime":2403.372,"body":"That kind of stuff especially on the call."},{"startTime":2403.372,"endTime":2403.944,"body":"Raise the rates."},{"startTime":2404.026,"endTime":2405.935,"body":"Yeah, exactly but there are other ways."},{"startTime":2405.94,"endTime":2410.735,"body":"So I think the product folks talking"},{"startTime":2405.94,"endTime":2410.735,"body":"to one another germinates these ideas."},{"startTime":2410.762,"endTime":2410.926,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":2411.117,"endTime":2413.244,"body":"And I think that form"},{"startTime":2411.117,"endTime":2413.244,"body":"is very, very important."},{"startTime":2413.717,"endTime":2416.808,"body":"Brian and Om's software"},{"startTime":2413.717,"endTime":2416.808,"body":"development firm, we sold out"},{"startTime":2416.844,"endTime":2420.299,"body":"we cashed out, O m stayed there for"},{"startTime":2416.844,"endTime":2420.299,"body":"a year or whatever and now like the,"},{"startTime":2420.353,"endTime":2422.862,"body":"what, what was a 20 person company"},{"startTime":2420.353,"endTime":2422.862,"body":"is now like a hundred person company."},{"startTime":2422.972,"endTime":2423.162,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":2423.326,"endTime":2425.181,"body":"And then at some point a"},{"startTime":2423.326,"endTime":2425.181,"body":"private equity firm comes in,"},{"startTime":2425.181,"endTime":2426.217,"body":"is like, Hey, you know what?"},{"startTime":2426.217,"endTime":2428.072,"body":"Like we need to be in this market space."},{"startTime":2428.072,"endTime":2431.044,"body":"We're gonna go buy eight companies"},{"startTime":2428.072,"endTime":2431.044,"body":"that are all about a hundred"},{"startTime":2431.044,"endTime":2432.544,"body":"people and merge them all together."},{"startTime":2433.008,"endTime":2434.944,"body":"And now there's ultra chaos."},{"startTime":2435.026,"endTime":2438.435,"body":"Like, it might not be this way, it"},{"startTime":2435.026,"endTime":2438.435,"body":"might it like you might naturally"},{"startTime":2438.435,"endTime":2441.272,"body":"grow from a hundred percent"},{"startTime":2438.435,"endTime":2441.272,"body":"company into a 500% company."},{"startTime":2441.272,"endTime":2442.199,"body":"I see that all the time."},{"startTime":2442.508,"endTime":2445.372,"body":"where, hey, we were in this market"},{"startTime":2442.508,"endTime":2445.372,"body":"segment and now we're gonna expand"},{"startTime":2445.372,"endTime":2446.353,"body":"to this other market segment."},{"startTime":2446.353,"endTime":2449.381,"body":"And now there's all kinds of unchecked"},{"startTime":2446.353,"endTime":2449.381,"body":"growth throughout the business."},{"startTime":2449.626,"endTime":2453.417,"body":"You know, we, we, we move our product"},{"startTime":2449.626,"endTime":2453.417,"body":"into another line of business."},{"startTime":2453.417,"endTime":2457.04,"body":"Maybe our product was marketed"},{"startTime":2453.417,"endTime":2457.04,"body":"specifically to restaurants, but then we"},{"startTime":2457.04,"endTime":2460.503,"body":"discovered that like every hotel in the"},{"startTime":2457.04,"endTime":2460.503,"body":"world also has a restaurant inside of it."},{"startTime":2460.503,"endTime":2464.103,"body":"So now we sell to restaurants and hotels."},{"startTime":2464.431,"endTime":2467.417,"body":"So now we're a restaurant, hotel"},{"startTime":2464.431,"endTime":2467.417,"body":"company, but also we don't know"},{"startTime":2467.417,"endTime":2470.881,"body":"anything about hotels, so we have to"},{"startTime":2467.417,"endTime":2470.881,"body":"hire a bunch of people quickly to be"},{"startTime":2470.885,"endTime":2472.108,"body":"able to service that market segment."},{"startTime":2472.108,"endTime":2473.69,"body":"So now we're expanding rapidly."},{"startTime":2473.69,"endTime":2476.662,"body":"So it's, it's, it's"},{"startTime":2473.69,"endTime":2476.662,"body":"completely conceivable."},{"startTime":2476.696,"endTime":2478.55,"body":"and I'm not this is not"},{"startTime":2476.696,"endTime":2478.55,"body":"over like a 30 day period."},{"startTime":2478.55,"endTime":2480.405,"body":"This is like a two, three year period."},{"startTime":2480.405,"endTime":2480.487,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":2480.596,"endTime":2483.514,"body":"Like we go from a hundred"},{"startTime":2480.596,"endTime":2483.514,"body":"people to 500 people."},{"startTime":2484.059,"endTime":2486.132,"body":", whether we are bought by someone"},{"startTime":2484.059,"endTime":2486.132,"body":"and merged with someone else,"},{"startTime":2486.132,"endTime":2489.623,"body":"or whether we grow organically,"},{"startTime":2486.132,"endTime":2489.623,"body":"it doesn't really matter."},{"startTime":2489.869,"endTime":2490.441,"body":"We went from."},{"startTime":2490.973,"endTime":2496.864,"body":"being able to manage all these"},{"startTime":2490.973,"endTime":2496.864,"body":"relationships and now, now we are big,"},{"startTime":2497.109,"endTime":2501.473,"body":"and that's, that's assuming that we don't"},{"startTime":2497.109,"endTime":2501.473,"body":"get bought by Google or another company"},{"startTime":2501.478,"endTime":2506.355,"body":"like that where they're just like, Hey, we"},{"startTime":2501.478,"endTime":2506.355,"body":"like your product sign on the dotted line."},{"startTime":2506.737,"endTime":2508.282,"body":"And also we don't need you anymore."},{"startTime":2508.419,"endTime":2508.928,"body":"Right."},{"startTime":2508.928,"endTime":2510.309,"body":"Or, or, we like your customers."},{"startTime":2510.314,"endTime":2511.173,"body":"We don't care about your product."},{"startTime":2511.173,"endTime":2512.482,"body":"We're just gonna run that dry."},{"startTime":2512.482,"endTime":2512.591,"body":"Yeah"},{"startTime":2512.782,"endTime":2513.165,"body":"all right."},{"startTime":2513.169,"endTime":2517.473,"body":"So yeah, I mean, if, so, if I've hung"},{"startTime":2513.169,"endTime":2517.473,"body":"around from when we sold our little mom"},{"startTime":2517.473,"endTime":2518.7,"body":"and pop thing, I don't know why you would."},{"startTime":2518.7,"endTime":2521.028,"body":"I don't know why I would,"},{"startTime":2518.7,"endTime":2521.028,"body":"but what happens now?"},{"startTime":2521.491,"endTime":2523.864,"body":"So in terms of the two sides of the."},{"startTime":2524.546,"endTime":2528.009,"body":"house, so to speak the two circles"},{"startTime":2524.546,"endTime":2528.009,"body":"that we spoke about, yes, if you've"},{"startTime":2528.009,"endTime":2531.519,"body":"grown organically, you may have less"},{"startTime":2528.009,"endTime":2531.519,"body":"of an issue because you had the luxury"},{"startTime":2531.519,"endTime":2533.782,"body":"of growing from within, hopefully."},{"startTime":2533.782,"endTime":2538.2,"body":"But yeah, hopefully but if you got,"},{"startTime":2533.782,"endTime":2538.2,"body":"if you got bought by a bigger company,"},{"startTime":2538.25,"endTime":2539.587,"body":"you're gonna have the same problem."},{"startTime":2539.641,"endTime":2542.969,"body":"Only now there are more products,"},{"startTime":2539.641,"endTime":2542.969,"body":"there are more product people."},{"startTime":2543.023,"endTime":2546.087,"body":"Yeah likewise on the other side,"},{"startTime":2543.023,"endTime":2546.087,"body":"more developers, more teams."},{"startTime":2546.332,"endTime":2549.687,"body":"So the whole thing exacerbates"},{"startTime":2546.332,"endTime":2549.687,"body":"as the problem statement, right?"},{"startTime":2549.691,"endTime":2549.823,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":2549.828,"endTime":2549.932,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":2550.341,"endTime":2553.15,"body":"The flip side is the people that"},{"startTime":2550.341,"endTime":2553.15,"body":"bought you have probably bought"},{"startTime":2553.15,"endTime":2555.169,"body":"others and they're trying to"},{"startTime":2553.15,"endTime":2555.169,"body":"assimilate everybody together."},{"startTime":2555.169,"endTime":2559.123,"body":"Like that just happens with the same"},{"startTime":2555.169,"endTime":2559.123,"body":"ease as it does with them putting"},{"startTime":2559.123,"endTime":2560.459,"body":"numbers on the spreadsheet together."},{"startTime":2560.896,"endTime":2565.441,"body":"No so, Coming in to that sort of an"},{"startTime":2560.896,"endTime":2565.441,"body":"environment, you have your work cut out."},{"startTime":2565.605,"endTime":2565.905,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":2565.987,"endTime":2569.314,"body":"And at this point, this is where"},{"startTime":2565.987,"endTime":2569.314,"body":"you quickly have to form alliances."},{"startTime":2569.314,"endTime":2569.423,"body":"Mm-hmm."},{"startTime":2569.641,"endTime":2573.464,"body":", you have to figure out who's gonna help"},{"startTime":2569.641,"endTime":2573.464,"body":"you get to where you need to get to."},{"startTime":2573.573,"endTime":2575.864,"body":"First of all, there is no"},{"startTime":2573.573,"endTime":2575.864,"body":"equilibrium when you go there."},{"startTime":2575.919,"endTime":2576.3,"body":"Oh boy."},{"startTime":2576.305,"endTime":2576.737,"body":"Right."},{"startTime":2576.791,"endTime":2580.364,"body":"So you've gotta reach to a a point"},{"startTime":2576.791,"endTime":2580.364,"body":"where it, the ground is still"},{"startTime":2580.364,"endTime":2581.891,"body":"shaking, but it's shaking the least."},{"startTime":2582.055,"endTime":2582.409,"body":"Oh boy."},{"startTime":2582.6,"endTime":2586.255,"body":"Did, did we just transition from a"},{"startTime":2582.6,"endTime":2586.255,"body":"podcast about having a functioning"},{"startTime":2586.269,"endTime":2591.314,"body":"what and how cycles in your company"},{"startTime":2586.269,"endTime":2591.314,"body":"to a podcast about how to build"},{"startTime":2591.314,"endTime":2595.369,"body":"influence in the area in which you"},{"startTime":2591.314,"endTime":2595.369,"body":"are responsible inside of your large"},{"startTime":2595.369,"endTime":2597.332,"body":"ecosystem that touches other ecosystems?"},{"startTime":2597.332,"endTime":2601.159,"body":"Cause for product managers in"},{"startTime":2597.332,"endTime":2601.159,"body":"organizations where you are not"},{"startTime":2602.114,"endTime":2604.269,"body":"directly responsible for products."},{"startTime":2604.623,"endTime":2607.769,"body":"You only have influence in"},{"startTime":2604.623,"endTime":2607.769,"body":"other backlogs, basically."},{"startTime":2607.796,"endTime":2608.069,"body":"Mm-hmm."},{"startTime":2608.487,"endTime":2612.459,"body":"We just jumped into the podcast of,"},{"startTime":2608.487,"endTime":2612.459,"body":"Hey, look, welcome to the company."},{"startTime":2612.459,"endTime":2617.096,"body":"And also like you are not in control"},{"startTime":2612.459,"endTime":2617.096,"body":"of anything and nobody reports to you."},{"startTime":2617.15,"endTime":2623.014,"body":"So I hope that you understand how to"},{"startTime":2617.15,"endTime":2623.014,"body":"exert influence over different segments"},{"startTime":2623.014,"endTime":2626.15,"body":"of the company to get what you need"},{"startTime":2623.014,"endTime":2626.15,"body":"done to make your product successful."},{"startTime":2626.196,"endTime":2630.159,"body":"Everything that worked before now that"},{"startTime":2626.196,"endTime":2630.159,"body":"we're 500 people, a thousand people,"},{"startTime":2630.164,"endTime":2632.696,"body":"1200 people, 10,000 people, whatever."},{"startTime":2633.05,"endTime":2633.896,"body":"Um, doesn't really matter."},{"startTime":2633.896,"endTime":2636.019,"body":"At some point when we broke"},{"startTime":2633.896,"endTime":2636.019,"body":"Dunbar's number, we were like, we"},{"startTime":2636.019,"endTime":2638.991,"body":"were driving on the road before"},{"startTime":2636.019,"endTime":2638.991,"body":"stopping at stoplights or whatever."},{"startTime":2639.019,"endTime":2642.728,"body":"And then when we broke Dunbar's number,"},{"startTime":2639.019,"endTime":2642.728,"body":"we were just like, we were like a,"},{"startTime":2642.728,"endTime":2645.591,"body":"a a a Doc in back to the future."},{"startTime":2645.591,"endTime":2646.191,"body":"We were like roads."},{"startTime":2646.191,"endTime":2648.482,"body":"We don't need roads, and well,"},{"startTime":2646.191,"endTime":2648.482,"body":"we're just flying around everywhere."},{"startTime":2648.837,"endTime":2651.673,"body":"You know, cause like now nothing there"},{"startTime":2648.837,"endTime":2651.673,"body":"are no rules and nothing matters."},{"startTime":2651.673,"endTime":2654.282,"body":"Like the only thing that matters"},{"startTime":2651.673,"endTime":2654.282,"body":"is do people care about your"},{"startTime":2654.282,"endTime":2656.137,"body":"message organizationally?"},{"startTime":2656.382,"endTime":2660.091,"body":"And will they stop to listen"},{"startTime":2656.382,"endTime":2660.091,"body":"across whatever business units"},{"startTime":2660.091,"endTime":2661.537,"body":"or product lines or whatever?"},{"startTime":2662.219,"endTime":2662.437,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":2662.437,"endTime":2665.028,"body":"I mean, we can, we can continue"},{"startTime":2662.437,"endTime":2665.028,"body":"down this path or save that for"},{"startTime":2665.032,"endTime":2666.609,"body":"a separate, dedicated podcast."},{"startTime":2666.609,"endTime":2668.864,"body":"I don't want to, yeah, I don't want"},{"startTime":2666.609,"endTime":2668.864,"body":"to continue because I don't like"},{"startTime":2669.1,"endTime":2670.446,"body":"No, this is a separate podcast."},{"startTime":2670.473,"endTime":2670.609,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":2671.286,"endTime":2673.859,"body":"Functioning in an organization"},{"startTime":2671.286,"endTime":2673.859,"body":"of a hundred thousand people,"},{"startTime":2673.863,"endTime":2675.168,"body":"the largest organizations."},{"startTime":2676.968,"endTime":2683.568,"body":"Uh, how much of your job, what percentage"},{"startTime":2676.968,"endTime":2683.568,"body":"of your job is just connecting with people"},{"startTime":2684.059,"endTime":2689.268,"body":"and just maintaining relationships so that"},{"startTime":2684.059,"endTime":2689.268,"body":"one day you might need those relationships"},{"startTime":2689.268,"endTime":2694.695,"body":"to say when we test things we have unit"},{"startTime":2689.268,"endTime":2694.695,"body":"tests on all of our code and we have"},{"startTime":2694.695,"endTime":2696.959,"body":"automation and t d d in all of our code."},{"startTime":2696.959,"endTime":2700.663,"body":"And your product that we intersect"},{"startTime":2696.959,"endTime":2700.663,"body":"with, that we whatever hand off"},{"startTime":2700.663,"endTime":2704.863,"body":"to or integrate with or whatever,"},{"startTime":2700.663,"endTime":2704.863,"body":"doesn't have any of those tests that's"},{"startTime":2704.863,"endTime":2706.063,"body":"gonna be a problem at some point."},{"startTime":2706.118,"endTime":2707.1,"body":"It, it sure is."},{"startTime":2707.1,"endTime":2709.718,"body":"I mean, when you jump into a"},{"startTime":2707.1,"endTime":2709.718,"body":"company that big, let's just say"},{"startTime":2709.909,"endTime":2711.191,"body":"1,000 thousand, doesn't matter."},{"startTime":2711.354,"endTime":2712.963,"body":"The biggest companies"},{"startTime":2711.354,"endTime":2712.963,"body":"are three times that big."},{"startTime":2713.018,"endTime":2713.263,"body":"Sure."},{"startTime":2713.291,"endTime":2718.304,"body":"But there, there you are not gonna"},{"startTime":2713.291,"endTime":2718.304,"body":"have binoculars to see past just"},{"startTime":2718.304,"endTime":2721.704,"body":"your little sphere of influence um,"},{"startTime":2718.304,"endTime":2721.704,"body":"and anything that's happening beyond"},{"startTime":2721.704,"endTime":2725.648,"body":"that is simply made aware to you"},{"startTime":2721.704,"endTime":2725.648,"body":"by looking at the company bulletin."},{"startTime":2725.703,"endTime":2725.785,"body":"Mm-hmm."},{"startTime":2726.003,"endTime":2727.557,"body":"like, this is what we've done over there."},{"startTime":2727.557,"endTime":2727.639,"body":"Mm-hmm."},{"startTime":2727.939,"endTime":2728.348,"body":", that's it."},{"startTime":2728.403,"endTime":2730.094,"body":"You don't know what's"},{"startTime":2728.403,"endTime":2730.094,"body":"going on really over there"},{"startTime":2730.512,"endTime":2734.985,"body":"so it becomes all the more critical at"},{"startTime":2730.512,"endTime":2734.985,"body":"that point to say, we're gonna take."},{"startTime":2735.776,"endTime":2739.139,"body":"Two or three things that we're gonna"},{"startTime":2735.776,"endTime":2739.139,"body":"improve on and you're gonna sell"},{"startTime":2739.139,"endTime":2741.048,"body":"that just to your own team first?"},{"startTime":2741.139,"endTime":2744.767,"body":"If you're a product person, you're gonna"},{"startTime":2741.139,"endTime":2744.767,"body":"sell the idea to your product manager"},{"startTime":2744.821,"endTime":2746.185,"body":"and your development folks, right?"},{"startTime":2746.203,"endTime":2746.385,"body":"Mm-hmm."},{"startTime":2746.457,"endTime":2746.567,"body":"that."},{"startTime":2746.567,"endTime":2746.786,"body":"That's it."},{"startTime":2746.79,"endTime":2750.248,"body":"Just, just our little microcosm"},{"startTime":2746.79,"endTime":2750.248,"body":"and see if we can make success"},{"startTime":2750.248,"endTime":2751.612,"body":"happen based on that assumption."},{"startTime":2751.612,"endTime":2753.357,"body":"You're testing, it's like"},{"startTime":2751.612,"endTime":2753.357,"body":"an experiment almost."},{"startTime":2753.362,"endTime":2753.657,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":2753.739,"endTime":2754.503,"body":"You're testing that out."},{"startTime":2754.503,"endTime":2757.23,"body":"If it doesn't work, well stop"},{"startTime":2754.503,"endTime":2757.23,"body":"as early as you can and pivot."},{"startTime":2757.476,"endTime":2761.267,"body":"If it works well, you can now,"},{"startTime":2757.476,"endTime":2761.267,"body":"whoever's asking about it, or you"},{"startTime":2761.267,"endTime":2762.467,"body":"can tell a few more people about it."},{"startTime":2762.957,"endTime":2764.512,"body":"And you build out that way."},{"startTime":2764.512,"endTime":2765.248,"body":"Mm-hmm."},{"startTime":2765.249,"endTime":2766.988,"body":"It takes time, first of all, clearly."},{"startTime":2767.043,"endTime":2771.179,"body":"Yeah it also is fraught with a lot of"},{"startTime":2767.043,"endTime":2771.179,"body":"risk because no matter how well your, your"},{"startTime":2771.397,"endTime":2776.016,"body":"experiment is going, someone's gonna come"},{"startTime":2771.397,"endTime":2776.016,"body":"back and find a way to spit on that that"},{"startTime":2776.016,"endTime":2777.897,"body":"just happens when you have 10,000 people."},{"startTime":2777.925,"endTime":2778.116,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":2778.388,"endTime":2782.152,"body":"That's where you need alliances"},{"startTime":2778.388,"endTime":2782.152,"body":"even more, and I'm not gonna go back"},{"startTime":2782.152,"endTime":2785.588,"body":"to that, but you do need people to"},{"startTime":2782.152,"endTime":2785.588,"body":"say what we're doing Makes sense."},{"startTime":2785.616,"endTime":2785.725,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":2785.752,"endTime":2789.325,"body":"It's not one person, just some wacky"},{"startTime":2785.752,"endTime":2789.325,"body":"person saying, let's do things this way."},{"startTime":2789.625,"endTime":2792.325,"body":"It's gonna be multiple wacky"},{"startTime":2789.625,"endTime":2792.325,"body":"people saying the same thing,"},{"startTime":2792.325,"endTime":2793.361,"body":"more or less the same thing."},{"startTime":2793.416,"endTime":2795.107,"body":"So that has some gravita to it."},{"startTime":2795.161,"endTime":2800.834,"body":"So when we were in a slightly smaller"},{"startTime":2795.161,"endTime":2800.834,"body":"company, we built a a, a community"},{"startTime":2800.943,"endTime":2805.116,"body":"of product managers and we built a"},{"startTime":2800.943,"endTime":2805.116,"body":"community of dev team representatives."},{"startTime":2805.757,"endTime":2809.411,"body":"Now that we're in a, a much, much,"},{"startTime":2805.757,"endTime":2809.411,"body":"much larger company and a much larger"},{"startTime":2809.411,"endTime":2810.393,"body":"ecosystem, you know what I mean?"},{"startTime":2810.557,"endTime":2812.22,"body":"We got bought by Google, congratulations."},{"startTime":2812.22,"endTime":2814.275,"body":"We we're we, we can all buy mansions now"},{"startTime":2814.347,"endTime":2816.293,"body":"we still have to set"},{"startTime":2814.347,"endTime":2816.293,"body":"that up to be successful."},{"startTime":2816.457,"endTime":2819.538,"body":"So it sounds like what you're"},{"startTime":2816.457,"endTime":2819.538,"body":"saying is you want to reach out to"},{"startTime":2819.766,"endTime":2824.12,"body":"the people that kind of align with"},{"startTime":2819.766,"endTime":2824.12,"body":"your way of thinking or your way of"},{"startTime":2824.12,"endTime":2825.538,"body":"working, or your product or whatever."},{"startTime":2825.729,"endTime":2828.157,"body":"The people that kind of naturally"},{"startTime":2825.729,"endTime":2828.157,"body":"align, you wanna reach out to them"},{"startTime":2828.157,"endTime":2830.502,"body":"first and start rebuilding that circle."},{"startTime":2830.529,"endTime":2830.857,"body":"Mm-hmm."},{"startTime":2831.184,"endTime":2833.929,"body":", no matter how small or big"},{"startTime":2831.184,"endTime":2833.929,"body":"or whatever that circle is I,"},{"startTime":2833.929,"endTime":2839.138,"body":"I'm wondering if, if like the what"},{"startTime":2833.929,"endTime":2839.138,"body":"and how we talked about before"},{"startTime":2839.138,"endTime":2841.429,"body":"were like functioning cycles"},{"startTime":2839.138,"endTime":2841.429,"body":"that drive the business forward."},{"startTime":2841.729,"endTime":2846.611,"body":"Now I'm wondering if it's, if it's"},{"startTime":2841.729,"endTime":2846.611,"body":"functional cycles that drive the business"},{"startTime":2846.611,"endTime":2848.357,"body":"forward inside of smaller business units."},{"startTime":2848.643,"endTime":2851.725,"body":"Inside a larger organization, but"},{"startTime":2848.643,"endTime":2851.725,"body":"also if it's like, if there's like a"},{"startTime":2851.725,"endTime":2856.879,"body":"community of practice slash interest"},{"startTime":2851.725,"endTime":2856.879,"body":"element of it as well on top of all that."},{"startTime":2857.288,"endTime":2857.725,"body":"You know what I mean?"},{"startTime":2858.707,"endTime":2862.307,"body":"So when you say community of interest"},{"startTime":2858.707,"endTime":2862.307,"body":"or practice, these are mainly"},{"startTime":2862.311,"endTime":2864.243,"body":"around adoption of practices, right?"},{"startTime":2864.243,"endTime":2868.234,"body":"Yeah and you can definitely do that"},{"startTime":2864.243,"endTime":2868.234,"body":"and they can transcend all these, I'll"},{"startTime":2868.234,"endTime":2872.343,"body":"say, political beliefs that persist"},{"startTime":2868.234,"endTime":2872.343,"body":"in an organization within groups."},{"startTime":2872.37,"endTime":2874.097,"body":"Yeah because it is what it is, right?"},{"startTime":2874.097,"endTime":2876.797,"body":"So you can have external people"},{"startTime":2874.097,"endTime":2876.797,"body":"come in and, and you know, wax"},{"startTime":2876.802,"endTime":2878.516,"body":"lyrical about good practices."},{"startTime":2878.52,"endTime":2882.307,"body":"You can do all those sorts of things that"},{"startTime":2878.52,"endTime":2882.307,"body":"doesn't make those people adopt them."},{"startTime":2882.552,"endTime":2882.661,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":2882.688,"endTime":2885.17,"body":"They simply attend their"},{"startTime":2882.688,"endTime":2885.17,"body":"optional most of the time anyway."},{"startTime":2885.234,"endTime":2885.561,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":2885.716,"endTime":2887.734,"body":"If they attend, they'll attend"},{"startTime":2885.716,"endTime":2887.734,"body":"and say, that was interesting,"},{"startTime":2887.734,"endTime":2888.607,"body":"and then they walk away."},{"startTime":2888.888,"endTime":2892.216,"body":"It doesn't make them say, Hey,"},{"startTime":2888.888,"endTime":2892.216,"body":"this is something we need to do,"},{"startTime":2892.252,"endTime":2893.861,"body":"that unfortunately is grassroots."},{"startTime":2893.866,"endTime":2897.802,"body":"It has to grow in from, from like,"},{"startTime":2893.866,"endTime":2897.802,"body":"from one little sphere and it's gonna"},{"startTime":2897.802,"endTime":2902.82,"body":"be small initially, but once you have"},{"startTime":2897.802,"endTime":2902.82,"body":"success, you can now really expound on"},{"startTime":2902.825,"endTime":2907.329,"body":"that, tell people about it, evangelize"},{"startTime":2902.825,"endTime":2907.329,"body":"it and touch the next layer that"},{"startTime":2907.329,"endTime":2909.538,"body":"is on the periphery of your domain."},{"startTime":2909.92,"endTime":2913.147,"body":"Forget about all those other people that"},{"startTime":2909.92,"endTime":2913.147,"body":"are doing things that way a different way."},{"startTime":2913.147,"endTime":2913.666,"body":"That's fine."},{"startTime":2913.666,"endTime":2914.647,"body":"They're gonna continue that way."},{"startTime":2914.647,"endTime":2919.229,"body":"But yeah, soon, very soon"},{"startTime":2914.647,"endTime":2919.229,"body":"people will realize that what's"},{"startTime":2919.229,"endTime":2921.138,"body":"happening here is of value."},{"startTime":2921.329,"endTime":2923.997,"body":"Yeah and that's when you"},{"startTime":2921.329,"endTime":2923.997,"body":"can start to grow that."},{"startTime":2924.707,"endTime":2927.625,"body":"The downside to this, this idea,"},{"startTime":2924.707,"endTime":2927.625,"body":"there is one downside and it's"},{"startTime":2927.625,"endTime":2931.497,"body":"significant and that is, it depends"},{"startTime":2927.625,"endTime":2931.497,"body":"what your role is in the organization."},{"startTime":2931.743,"endTime":2935.425,"body":"If you are a product person or if"},{"startTime":2931.743,"endTime":2935.425,"body":"you're a development person or if,"},{"startTime":2935.643,"endTime":2939.579,"body":"or even Azure coach really, I mean,"},{"startTime":2935.643,"endTime":2939.579,"body":"just in one little area, one of."},{"startTime":2940.566,"endTime":2941.52,"body":"You have your work cut out."},{"startTime":2941.657,"endTime":2941.847,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":2941.902,"endTime":2945.038,"body":"Because other agile coaches, I"},{"startTime":2941.902,"endTime":2945.038,"body":"speak for them, they're gonna find"},{"startTime":2945.038,"endTime":2948.884,"body":"20 reasons to think or, and tell"},{"startTime":2945.038,"endTime":2948.884,"body":"you why your way is not the best."},{"startTime":2949.075,"endTime":2949.157,"body":"Oh boy."},{"startTime":2949.493,"endTime":2950.82,"body":"It, it just happens that way."},{"startTime":2950.911,"endTime":2956.093,"body":"So if you have influence with"},{"startTime":2950.911,"endTime":2956.093,"body":"people that can drive decisions and"},{"startTime":2956.093,"endTime":2959.42,"body":"that takes trust and all of that,"},{"startTime":2956.093,"endTime":2959.42,"body":"then you have a better chance."},{"startTime":2959.847,"endTime":2960.311,"body":"That's it."},{"startTime":2960.365,"endTime":2961.047,"body":"And a podcast."},{"startTime":2961.047,"endTime":2964.529,"body":"That was such a great exit that I"},{"startTime":2961.047,"endTime":2964.529,"body":"don't have anything to add after that."},{"startTime":2964.665,"endTime":2965.02,"body":"Cool."},{"startTime":2965.301,"endTime":2967.674,"body":"We talked about what happens in"},{"startTime":2965.301,"endTime":2967.674,"body":"small, tiny, small companies."},{"startTime":2967.792,"endTime":2969.265,"body":"We talked about medium sized businesses."},{"startTime":2969.265,"endTime":2971.965,"body":"We pretty, we pretty much talked"},{"startTime":2969.265,"endTime":2971.965,"body":"about like positives and dysfunctions"},{"startTime":2971.965,"endTime":2972.92,"body":"in medium sized businesses."},{"startTime":2973.165,"endTime":2977.565,"body":"We didn't really harp too much in this"},{"startTime":2973.165,"endTime":2977.565,"body":"episode on uh what happens when you"},{"startTime":2977.565,"endTime":2980.047,"body":"get someone's like, just like, just"},{"startTime":2977.565,"endTime":2980.047,"body":"do what I say, you know what I mean?"},{"startTime":2980.047,"endTime":2980.401,"body":"That kind of stuff."},{"startTime":2980.447,"endTime":2981.265,"body":", I feel we harp on that."},{"startTime":2981.301,"endTime":2982.465,"body":"Let's, let's save that"},{"startTime":2981.301,"endTime":2982.465,"body":"for a different podcast."},{"startTime":2982.465,"endTime":2984.565,"body":"Well, we harp on that so"},{"startTime":2982.465,"endTime":2984.565,"body":"much on our regular podcast."},{"startTime":2984.565,"endTime":2988.056,"body":"I, I feel like people that"},{"startTime":2984.565,"endTime":2988.056,"body":"listen to this, they, they"},{"startTime":2988.165,"endTime":2989.747,"body":"understand our viewpoint on that."},{"startTime":2989.747,"endTime":2994.02,"body":"So I, I like that we're like, Hey,  this"},{"startTime":2989.747,"endTime":2994.02,"body":"is how you know that things are clicking."},{"startTime":2994.156,"endTime":2994.32,"body":"Right?"},{"startTime":2994.347,"endTime":2998.461,"body":"Well things are working well that you"},{"startTime":2994.347,"endTime":2998.461,"body":"see these things going on and then it"},{"startTime":2998.461,"endTime":3002.524,"body":"got real murky when we moved into large"},{"startTime":2998.461,"endTime":3002.524,"body":"companies cuz uh, cuz things are murky."},{"startTime":3002.551,"endTime":3003.124,"body":"Yeah, exactly."},{"startTime":3003.124,"endTime":3004.297,"body":"That is exactly right."},{"startTime":3004.301,"endTime":3006.67,"body":"So things are murky when you"},{"startTime":3004.301,"endTime":3006.67,"body":"get to a large company, right."},{"startTime":3006.97,"endTime":3008.524,"body":"Lots of, lots of forces at play."},{"startTime":3008.57,"endTime":3010.833,"body":"Well, yeah, you, I mean, the, the"},{"startTime":3008.57,"endTime":3010.833,"body":"thing for me there is like, yeah,"},{"startTime":3010.833,"endTime":3015.688,"body":"you can't separate the political from"},{"startTime":3010.833,"endTime":3015.688,"body":"all of the operational and strategic"},{"startTime":3015.688,"endTime":3017.242,"body":"and all, all the things you're"},{"startTime":3015.688,"endTime":3017.242,"body":"gonna be dealing with like that."},{"startTime":3017.242,"endTime":3018.797,"body":"There is, there is a political element."},{"startTime":3018.797,"endTime":3022.042,"body":"You have to be spending a good"},{"startTime":3018.797,"endTime":3022.042,"body":"amount of your time making sure that"},{"startTime":3022.042,"endTime":3025.692,"body":"you are bringing people into your"},{"startTime":3022.042,"endTime":3025.692,"body":"uh sphere of influence, basically."},{"startTime":3025.72,"endTime":3025.883,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":3026.111,"endTime":3028.674,"body":"There's not really anyone out there"},{"startTime":3026.111,"endTime":3028.674,"body":"talking about, I don't think  that"},{"startTime":3028.674,"endTime":3031.274,"body":"should be a big thing in the scrum"},{"startTime":3028.674,"endTime":3031.274,"body":"master uh, trainings and whatnot."},{"startTime":3031.274,"endTime":3034.292,"body":"I was like, expanding your sphere of"},{"startTime":3031.274,"endTime":3034.292,"body":"influence and I just don't see it."},{"startTime":3034.338,"endTime":3034.501,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":3034.501,"endTime":3035.129,"body":"It's lacking."},{"startTime":3035.32,"endTime":3035.401,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":3035.401,"endTime":3036.874,"body":"Hopefully one day"},{"startTime":3035.401,"endTime":3036.874,"body":"they'll incorporate that."},{"startTime":3037.038,"endTime":3039.001,"body":"Cause that's not the kind of"},{"startTime":3037.038,"endTime":3039.001,"body":"stuff that you learn in college."},{"startTime":3039.438,"endTime":3040.147,"body":"They don't teach you that."},{"startTime":3040.515,"endTime":3041.715,"body":"Well, they definitely"},{"startTime":3040.515,"endTime":3041.715,"body":"don't teach you that."},{"startTime":3041.742,"endTime":3043.515,"body":"Like they, they teach"},{"startTime":3041.742,"endTime":3043.515,"body":"you about Gantt charts."},{"startTime":3043.542,"endTime":3044.006,"body":"Oh yeah."},{"startTime":3044.633,"endTime":3046.27,"body":"Polynomial equations and Gantt charts."},{"startTime":3046.27,"endTime":3046.515,"body":"That's right."},{"startTime":3046.515,"endTime":3047.742,"body":"Neither of them I have any use for."},{"startTime":3047.747,"endTime":3048.015,"body":"That's right."},{"startTime":3048.37,"endTime":3051.211,"body":"All right, well if you're into"},{"startTime":3048.37,"endTime":3051.211,"body":"polynomial equations and Gantt"},{"startTime":3051.211,"endTime":3052.301,"body":"charts like and subscribe"}]}