{"version":"1.0.0","segments":[{"startTime":0.045,"endTime":4.136,"body":"This podcast is grinding right up against"},{"startTime":0.045,"endTime":4.136,"body":"our working agreement of never mentioning"},{"startTime":4.136,"endTime":6.066,"body":"company names or people's names yeah."},{"startTime":6.093,"endTime":7.73,"body":"We'll do our best to protect the innocent."},{"startTime":7.73,"endTime":8.139,"body":"That's right."},{"startTime":8.139,"endTime":8.793,"body":"Or the guilty."},{"startTime":8.804,"endTime":11.856,"body":"I don't know what the real title of this"},{"startTime":8.804,"endTime":11.856,"body":"podcast is gonna be but the subtitle of"},{"startTime":11.86,"endTime":17.084,"body":"the podcast is How to Destroy a Company"},{"startTime":11.86,"endTime":17.084,"body":"by Secretly or, or Blatantly, blatantly"},{"startTime":17.181,"endTime":20.945,"body":"hating Your Customers, how to Destroy"},{"startTime":17.181,"endTime":20.945,"body":"a Company by hating your Customers"},{"startTime":21.272,"endTime":24.463,"body":"I'm sure everybody knows the"},{"startTime":21.272,"endTime":24.463,"body":"company that fits under that bill."},{"startTime":24.609,"endTime":28.081,"body":"I wanted to start off with, from the"},{"startTime":24.609,"endTime":28.081,"body":"Jim Collins book, how the Mighty Fall,"},{"startTime":28.445,"endTime":33.254,"body":"Jim Collins gives five stages of company"},{"startTime":28.445,"endTime":33.254,"body":"decline, and I want to run through"},{"startTime":33.254,"endTime":37.118,"body":"them now just as a framework for, this"},{"startTime":33.254,"endTime":37.118,"body":"podcast, what we're talking about."},{"startTime":37.118,"endTime":40.636,"body":"So just very quickly, I'm just gonna"},{"startTime":37.118,"endTime":40.636,"body":"read the stages without any context"},{"startTime":40.681,"endTime":44.654,"body":"so stage one, Is characterized"},{"startTime":40.681,"endTime":44.654,"body":"by hubris, born of success."},{"startTime":44.845,"endTime":48.145,"body":"Stage two is marked by"},{"startTime":44.845,"endTime":48.145,"body":"undisciplined pursuit of more."},{"startTime":48.418,"endTime":53.872,"body":"Stage three is the peak of ascendancy and"},{"startTime":48.418,"endTime":53.872,"body":"characterized by denial of risk and peril."},{"startTime":54.118,"endTime":55.536,"body":"It's the the highest point."},{"startTime":55.541,"endTime":55.681,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":55.791,"endTime":57.445,"body":"That you'll ever, yeah."},{"startTime":57.854,"endTime":60.5,"body":"Stage four begins a precipitous"},{"startTime":57.854,"endTime":60.5,"body":"decline with the organization"},{"startTime":60.5,"endTime":61.918,"body":"grasping for salvation."},{"startTime":61.972,"endTime":63.836,"body":"He, he's, he's a little"},{"startTime":61.972,"endTime":63.836,"body":"bit, a little wordy."},{"startTime":63.836,"endTime":64.3,"body":"With flowery."},{"startTime":64.391,"endTime":64.754,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":64.754,"endTime":65.636,"body":"A little flower in his language."},{"startTime":65.936,"endTime":66.809,"body":"Does he get paid by word?"},{"startTime":66.918,"endTime":71.3,"body":"Stage five is the final capitulation"},{"startTime":66.918,"endTime":71.3,"body":"to being irrelevant or accepting death."},{"startTime":71.527,"endTime":74.3,"body":"Those are the five stages"},{"startTime":71.527,"endTime":74.3,"body":"of the company decline."},{"startTime":74.818,"endTime":78.272,"body":"and, , in order to better illustrate,"},{"startTime":74.818,"endTime":78.272,"body":"these stages as we talk through"},{"startTime":78.272,"endTime":83.036,"body":"them, I will give  a purely"},{"startTime":78.272,"endTime":83.036,"body":"hypothetical example of a company, , a"},{"startTime":83.036,"endTime":84.727,"body":"completely hypothetical situation."},{"startTime":84.865,"endTime":85.683,"body":"Pulled from the headlines."},{"startTime":86.06,"endTime":86.769,"body":", any resemblance?"},{"startTime":86.769,"endTime":89.797,"body":"The actual company is"},{"startTime":86.769,"endTime":89.797,"body":"unintended and fictitious."},{"startTime":89.797,"endTime":90.288,"body":"That's right."},{"startTime":90.288,"endTime":92.033,"body":"And should be disregarded by everyone."},{"startTime":92.106,"endTime":95.142,"body":"I'm gonna start this example with"},{"startTime":92.106,"endTime":95.142,"body":"our gaming company, the Lizards"},{"startTime":95.142,"endTime":97.269,"body":"and Wizards llc Gaming Company."},{"startTime":97.274,"endTime":97.606,"body":"Cool."},{"startTime":97.678,"endTime":97.978,"body":"Right?"},{"startTime":98.388,"endTime":99.369,"body":"Fantastic company."},{"startTime":99.369,"endTime":99.66,"body":"It is."},{"startTime":99.66,"endTime":103.151,"body":"We make a product line"},{"startTime":99.66,"endTime":103.151,"body":"called Monsters and Mayhem."},{"startTime":103.151,"endTime":103.697,"body":"It's a game."},{"startTime":103.789,"endTime":103.854,"body":"have."},{"startTime":103.854,"endTime":104.109,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":104.109,"endTime":105.436,"body":"Been that for hours on hand."},{"startTime":105.436,"endTime":105.872,"body":"You can."},{"startTime":105.872,"endTime":106.554,"body":"And our, so"},{"startTime":106.772,"endTime":110.363,"body":"the Lizards and Wizards, LLC that,"},{"startTime":106.772,"endTime":110.363,"body":"that we own, we own this company and"},{"startTime":110.409,"endTime":111.636,"body":"we, we, we have sold this company."},{"startTime":111.681,"endTime":112.663,"body":"We do this occasionally."},{"startTime":112.663,"endTime":115.336,"body":"We, we sell our companies I don't know"},{"startTime":112.663,"endTime":115.336,"body":"why we do this, but that's what we do."},{"startTime":115.709,"endTime":116.391,"body":"We have sold our."},{"startTime":117.086,"endTime":121.795,"body":"To a larger company of Evil Toys"},{"startTime":117.086,"endTime":121.795,"body":"Incorporated and Evil Toys Incorporated."},{"startTime":121.795,"endTime":126.731,"body":"Now, The Lizards and Wizards LLC and"},{"startTime":121.795,"endTime":126.731,"body":"all of its products and product lines."},{"startTime":126.759,"endTime":127.004,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":127.031,"endTime":129.295,"body":"I can't remember if it was a"},{"startTime":127.031,"endTime":129.295,"body":"hostile takeover or, or not,"},{"startTime":129.568,"endTime":130.386,"body":"but they, they own it now."},{"startTime":130.441,"endTime":131.231,"body":"Oh, it doesn't really matter."},{"startTime":131.231,"endTime":134.041,"body":"I mean, we, we cashed out, so that's what"},{"startTime":131.231,"endTime":134.041,"body":"I said I think in one of our previous"},{"startTime":134.045,"endTime":136.822,"body":"podcast examples, like what we cashed"},{"startTime":134.045,"endTime":136.822,"body":"out and then I took my money and left."},{"startTime":136.822,"endTime":138.622,"body":"And you tried to stay with"},{"startTime":136.822,"endTime":138.622,"body":"the company and, and keep the"},{"startTime":138.622,"endTime":139.468,"body":"ship floating or something?"},{"startTime":139.468,"endTime":139.877,"body":"I'm stupid."},{"startTime":140.041,"endTime":140.622,"body":"Yeah, yeah, yeah."},{"startTime":142.65,"endTime":143.095,"body":". Okay."},{"startTime":143.122,"endTime":144.895,"body":"So what happens is Evil Toys Inc."},{"startTime":145.086,"endTime":147.841,"body":"Takes over Lizards and Wizards"},{"startTime":145.086,"endTime":147.841,"body":"LLC and all our properties."},{"startTime":148.113,"endTime":149.777,"body":"For the first couple of"},{"startTime":148.113,"endTime":149.777,"body":"years, evil Toys Inc."},{"startTime":149.804,"endTime":153.831,"body":"Is very happy with Lizards and Wizards,"},{"startTime":149.804,"endTime":153.831,"body":"llc, as they bring money in with a"},{"startTime":153.831,"endTime":157.245,"body":"new streams of revenue that this,"},{"startTime":153.831,"endTime":157.245,"body":"this very old school Evil Toys Inc."},{"startTime":157.291,"endTime":159.309,"body":"The majority of their products You"},{"startTime":157.291,"endTime":159.309,"body":"have to go out and manufacture and"},{"startTime":159.309,"endTime":161.3,"body":"then sell to stores so they can put"},{"startTime":159.309,"endTime":161.3,"body":"on their shelves and stuff like that."},{"startTime":161.3,"endTime":164.027,"body":"They don't really have a product"},{"startTime":161.3,"endTime":164.027,"body":"that is like a recurring stream of"},{"startTime":164.027,"endTime":165.055,"body":"revenue like this, so they're very."},{"startTime":165.677,"endTime":171.186,"body":"With their new stream of revenue for a"},{"startTime":165.677,"endTime":171.186,"body":"couple years, the owners of Lizards and"},{"startTime":171.186,"endTime":174.513,"body":"Wizard's, LLC, who have stuck around and"},{"startTime":171.186,"endTime":174.513,"body":"stayed with the company from the buyout,"},{"startTime":174.786,"endTime":178.55,"body":"they understand that having a strong"},{"startTime":174.786,"endTime":178.55,"body":"community, since their products are very"},{"startTime":178.55,"endTime":182.404,"body":"niche in the market, they only, they"},{"startTime":178.55,"endTime":182.404,"body":"only have the Monsters and Mayhem product"},{"startTime":182.404,"endTime":184.45,"body":"line, which is a, a game that people play."},{"startTime":184.504,"endTime":186.986,"body":"And sometimes they'll license that"},{"startTime":184.504,"endTime":186.986,"body":"product out for people to make video"},{"startTime":186.986,"endTime":188.622,"body":"games off of their main product."},{"startTime":189.013,"endTime":190.977,"body":"but that's their main product."},{"startTime":191.168,"endTime":191.441,"body":"Right?"},{"startTime":191.741,"endTime":191.959,"body":"Right."},{"startTime":192.141,"endTime":197.536,"body":"So they know that should that niche"},{"startTime":192.141,"endTime":197.536,"body":"community cease to grow, there will no"},{"startTime":197.536,"endTime":199.581,"body":"longer be a market for their product."},{"startTime":199.581,"endTime":204.027,"body":"So basically they, they are creating and"},{"startTime":199.581,"endTime":204.027,"body":"expanding the market for their product."},{"startTime":204.027,"endTime":206.345,"body":"So they are creating"},{"startTime":204.027,"endTime":206.345,"body":"the product market fit."},{"startTime":206.627,"endTime":207.991,"body":"That they're then turning"},{"startTime":206.627,"endTime":207.991,"body":"around and selling to."},{"startTime":208.318,"endTime":212.463,"body":"So the executives at Lizards and Wizards"},{"startTime":208.318,"endTime":212.463,"body":"LLC understand that and they're full"},{"startTime":212.463,"endTime":213.527,"body":"speed ahead with community building."},{"startTime":213.991,"endTime":215.661,"body":"In pursuit of that,"},{"startTime":213.991,"endTime":215.661,"body":"they've created a license."},{"startTime":215.661,"endTime":218.252,"body":"They've called the open"},{"startTime":215.661,"endTime":218.252,"body":"publishing license, and then"},{"startTime":218.252,"endTime":219.561,"body":"the open Publishing license."},{"startTime":219.825,"endTime":223.234,"body":"they have allowed third party"},{"startTime":219.825,"endTime":223.234,"body":"creators, independent creators, people"},{"startTime":223.239,"endTime":226.48,"body":"around the community to create and"},{"startTime":223.239,"endTime":226.48,"body":"publish content for their system."},{"startTime":226.643,"endTime":226.725,"body":"Mm-hmm."},{"startTime":227.189,"endTime":228.661,"body":", because the people running the"},{"startTime":227.189,"endTime":228.661,"body":"company know that, like the"},{"startTime":228.661,"endTime":229.807,"body":"company's only a certain size."},{"startTime":229.807,"endTime":232.507,"body":"So there's, there's some things that are"},{"startTime":229.807,"endTime":232.507,"body":"like not worth their size, and there's"},{"startTime":232.511,"endTime":236.28,"body":"some things  the community would accept,"},{"startTime":232.511,"endTime":236.28,"body":"but there's not, there's not enough"},{"startTime":236.28,"endTime":239.225,"body":"of them for the company to put their,"},{"startTime":236.28,"endTime":239.225,"body":"just like any other product, right?"},{"startTime":239.28,"endTime":242.161,"body":"Sure, you can develop any feature"},{"startTime":239.28,"endTime":242.161,"body":"you want, but some features won't get"},{"startTime":242.161,"endTime":244.289,"body":"used by a broad audience, but a very."},{"startTime":244.889,"endTime":246.557,"body":"Audience will completely go in on them."},{"startTime":246.711,"endTime":252.925,"body":"So they create this license and and they"},{"startTime":246.711,"endTime":252.925,"body":"expand the brand and, and they expand  the"},{"startTime":252.925,"endTime":255.098,"body":"revenue for the company for many years."},{"startTime":255.152,"endTime":255.316,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":255.534,"endTime":257.825,"body":"3%, 5%, 6% year over year growth."},{"startTime":257.907,"endTime":258.316,"body":"Very good."},{"startTime":258.316,"endTime":259.161,"body":"It's a decent growth."},{"startTime":259.189,"endTime":259.434,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":259.898,"endTime":261.998,"body":"over time , I'm gonna take us"},{"startTime":259.898,"endTime":261.998,"body":"forward in time a little bit."},{"startTime":261.998,"endTime":264.107,"body":"Let's say 15 years from the buyout."},{"startTime":264.543,"endTime":264.898,"body":"Right."},{"startTime":264.98,"endTime":267.898,"body":"So 15 years is a good enough time"},{"startTime":264.98,"endTime":267.898,"body":"where organically a lot of people"},{"startTime":267.898,"endTime":268.934,"body":"will move on, stuff like that."},{"startTime":269.07,"endTime":269.343,"body":"Sure."},{"startTime":269.561,"endTime":271.634,"body":"over time, The Evil Toys Inc."},{"startTime":271.916,"endTime":276.507,"body":", has said, we see this 3% growth, 5%"},{"startTime":271.916,"endTime":276.507,"body":"growth, but could we be doing more?"},{"startTime":276.507,"endTime":277.652,"body":"Could we be growing faster?"},{"startTime":277.98,"endTime":278.252,"body":"Right?"},{"startTime":278.302,"endTime":281.63,"body":"they have these Lizards and wizard's,"},{"startTime":278.302,"endTime":281.63,"body":"exec executives that talk about gaming."},{"startTime":281.63,"endTime":282.611,"body":"They talk about the community."},{"startTime":283.016,"endTime":284.734,"body":", but they don't  really talk about"},{"startTime":283.016,"endTime":284.734,"body":"revenue creation that often."},{"startTime":284.734,"endTime":286.811,"body":"They don't talk about  reducing"},{"startTime":284.734,"endTime":286.811,"body":"cost of their overhead."},{"startTime":286.811,"endTime":288.98,"body":"They don't talk about, uh what"},{"startTime":286.811,"endTime":288.98,"body":"they're gonna do to double"},{"startTime":288.98,"endTime":289.525,"body":"the size of the company."},{"startTime":289.525,"endTime":292.443,"body":"They don't talk about the same"},{"startTime":289.525,"endTime":292.443,"body":"things that the, the board members"},{"startTime":292.443,"endTime":294.243,"body":"at Evil Toys Inc talk about."},{"startTime":294.325,"endTime":296.452,"body":"They don't speak the same language."},{"startTime":296.457,"endTime":299.561,"body":"It's typical of holding"},{"startTime":296.457,"endTime":299.561,"body":"company, though, right?"},{"startTime":299.561,"endTime":301.852,"body":"That hold a bunch of"},{"startTime":299.561,"endTime":301.852,"body":"diverse companies, right."},{"startTime":302.152,"endTime":305.525,"body":"That they are always looking at the"},{"startTime":302.152,"endTime":305.525,"body":"bottom line saying can we, can we get."},{"startTime":306.175,"endTime":308.575,"body":"Can we get more right out of"},{"startTime":306.175,"endTime":308.575,"body":"these companies that we hold?"},{"startTime":308.93,"endTime":310.511,"body":"Can we optimize our operations?"},{"startTime":310.511,"endTime":311.057,"body":"Can we do this?"},{"startTime":311.057,"endTime":311.602,"body":"Can we do that?"},{"startTime":311.63,"endTime":311.811,"body":"Right?"},{"startTime":311.811,"endTime":313.32,"body":"We just want more out of it."},{"startTime":313.448,"endTime":318.275,"body":"So along the way, along the way, and"},{"startTime":313.448,"endTime":318.275,"body":"as, as, as people get tired of, being"},{"startTime":318.28,"endTime":321.43,"body":"in these arguments and, and back and"},{"startTime":318.28,"endTime":321.43,"body":"forth, as different executives leave,"},{"startTime":321.43,"endTime":325.096,"body":"they get replaced by people vetted"},{"startTime":321.43,"endTime":325.096,"body":"from the holding company and they"},{"startTime":325.096,"endTime":330.978,"body":"get replaced by people who think more"},{"startTime":325.096,"endTime":330.978,"body":"like the executives at Evil Toys Inc."},{"startTime":331.005,"endTime":334.769,"body":"Rather than the people who originally"},{"startTime":331.005,"endTime":334.769,"body":"founded and, and, and maintain"},{"startTime":334.769,"endTime":337.66,"body":"the community and the products"},{"startTime":334.769,"endTime":337.66,"body":"from Liz's and Wizards, llc."},{"startTime":337.687,"endTime":341.323,"body":"And then over time, what you end"},{"startTime":337.687,"endTime":341.323,"body":"up with is you end up with now two"},{"startTime":341.323,"endTime":345.151,"body":"companies where there really is not"},{"startTime":341.323,"endTime":345.151,"body":"a, a diversity in thought anymore."},{"startTime":345.655,"endTime":349.531,"body":"There's just kind of this"},{"startTime":345.655,"endTime":349.531,"body":"drive towards Financial metrics"},{"startTime":349.699,"endTime":351.172,"body":"and financial measurements."},{"startTime":351.226,"endTime":355.072,"body":"Basically the, the measurements about the"},{"startTime":351.226,"endTime":355.072,"body":"community and growth and stuff like that"},{"startTime":355.072,"endTime":359.899,"body":"are fine as long as it lines up with the"},{"startTime":355.072,"endTime":359.899,"body":"financial metrics that Evil Toys Inc."},{"startTime":359.926,"endTime":360.526,"body":"Cares about."},{"startTime":360.936,"endTime":361.154,"body":"Right?"},{"startTime":361.617,"endTime":364.726,"body":"Any other measurement is either"},{"startTime":361.617,"endTime":364.726,"body":"no longer valuable and isn't"},{"startTime":364.863,"endTime":365.981,"body":"brought up at board meeting."},{"startTime":366.363,"endTime":369.517,"body":"Or not even, not even observed"},{"startTime":366.363,"endTime":369.517,"body":"probably right at that point."},{"startTime":369.599,"endTime":369.681,"body":"Right."},{"startTime":369.681,"endTime":370.854,"body":"So you've got the situation."},{"startTime":372.181,"endTime":376.145,"body":"executives for Lizards and Wizards"},{"startTime":372.181,"endTime":376.145,"body":"are basically descendants from"},{"startTime":376.145,"endTime":377.372,"body":"the mothership, so to speak."},{"startTime":377.372,"endTime":378.026,"body":"Right, right, right."},{"startTime":378.031,"endTime":378.272,"body":"Okay."},{"startTime":378.436,"endTime":382.908,"body":"So, so slowly over time, the holding"},{"startTime":378.436,"endTime":382.908,"body":"company has sort of eroded the"},{"startTime":382.908,"endTime":387.99,"body":"culture and changed it and morphed"},{"startTime":382.908,"endTime":387.99,"body":"it into a culture of Evil Toys Inc."},{"startTime":388.263,"endTime":392.263,"body":"Which I can't even be angry about them"},{"startTime":388.263,"endTime":392.263,"body":"eroding the culture because that, like"},{"startTime":392.263,"endTime":395.917,"body":"that, of course, the larger company"},{"startTime":392.263,"endTime":395.917,"body":"that absorbs a smaller company is gonna"},{"startTime":395.922,"endTime":397.308,"body":"make the smaller company like them."},{"startTime":397.308,"endTime":399.545,"body":"I would not expect the"},{"startTime":397.308,"endTime":399.545,"body":"opposite to happen, of course."},{"startTime":399.572,"endTime":399.79,"body":"All right."},{"startTime":399.981,"endTime":400.172,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":400.363,"endTime":403.299,"body":"So over time now, the"},{"startTime":400.363,"endTime":403.299,"body":"executives have changed."},{"startTime":403.354,"endTime":406.054,"body":"The, the leadership has"},{"startTime":403.354,"endTime":406.054,"body":"changed in the company."},{"startTime":406.354,"endTime":410.281,"body":"This license that they, they put out"},{"startTime":406.354,"endTime":410.281,"body":"that arguably allowed their company to"},{"startTime":410.281,"endTime":412.536,"body":"flourish to be as profitable it as it is"},{"startTime":413.299,"endTime":416.045,"body":"now the executives at Evil Toys Inc."},{"startTime":416.099,"endTime":417.895,"body":"They're saying, your product line."},{"startTime":418.017,"endTime":420.69,"body":"The way that we're measuring it,"},{"startTime":418.017,"endTime":420.69,"body":"it seems to be under monetized."},{"startTime":420.69,"endTime":424.008,"body":"It seems that you aren't going out"},{"startTime":420.69,"endTime":424.008,"body":"with as aggressively to bring , revenue"},{"startTime":424.013,"endTime":425.399,"body":"into the company as you could be doing."},{"startTime":425.645,"endTime":427.69,"body":"We think you should make"},{"startTime":425.645,"endTime":427.69,"body":"some changes that they give."},{"startTime":427.863,"endTime":429.581,"body":"Maybe they give them some goals."},{"startTime":429.586,"endTime":431.899,"body":"Maybe they give them some, maybe,"},{"startTime":429.586,"endTime":431.899,"body":"maybe somebody's read a book and"},{"startTime":431.899,"endTime":434.817,"body":"they give them OKRs and their"},{"startTime":431.899,"endTime":434.817,"body":"objective is increased revenue."},{"startTime":435.554,"endTime":438.363,"body":"I don't know, 20% a year"},{"startTime":435.554,"endTime":438.363,"body":"for the next five years."},{"startTime":438.363,"endTime":439.399,"body":"Not aggressive at all."},{"startTime":439.536,"endTime":440.326,"body":"It's not, no, no."},{"startTime":440.326,"endTime":442.726,"body":"It's, they should be able to do it"},{"startTime":440.326,"endTime":442.726,"body":"because their brand is under monetized."},{"startTime":443.19,"endTime":443.981,"body":"I mean, you have to think about it."},{"startTime":444.199,"endTime":447.145,"body":"Not only do they have the gaming lines,"},{"startTime":444.199,"endTime":447.145,"body":"but also they have, there's licensing that"},{"startTime":447.145,"endTime":448.563,"body":"basically the company does almost nothing."},{"startTime":448.672,"endTime":449.163,"body":"Licensing Sure."},{"startTime":449.163,"endTime":452.899,"body":"They say this other person can use,"},{"startTime":449.163,"endTime":452.899,"body":"can make a movie off of our products,"},{"startTime":453.036,"endTime":455.599,"body":"and they basically, the Evil Toys Inc."},{"startTime":455.736,"endTime":456.881,"body":"Pays nothing outta pocket for that."},{"startTime":456.881,"endTime":458.026,"body":"So that's free money."},{"startTime":458.026,"endTime":459.69,"body":"They're, they're like, why are"},{"startTime":458.026,"endTime":459.69,"body":"we not engaged in these things?"},{"startTime":459.69,"endTime":460.317,"body":"We don't understand."},{"startTime":460.795,"endTime":463.822,"body":"So they start pushing here and there,"},{"startTime":460.795,"endTime":463.822,"body":"and one of the things they push on is"},{"startTime":463.822,"endTime":468.036,"body":"to revoke this, this publishing license"},{"startTime":463.822,"endTime":468.036,"body":"because maybe they see uh, over the"},{"startTime":468.036,"endTime":474.226,"body":"past 15 years a large community has"},{"startTime":468.036,"endTime":474.226,"body":"cropped up of publishers who publish"},{"startTime":474.226,"endTime":476.681,"body":"under this license and, and their"},{"startTime":474.226,"endTime":476.681,"body":"game systems are compatible with"},{"startTime":476.726,"endTime":478.536,"body":"the Lizards and Wizard's product."},{"startTime":478.781,"endTime":481.426,"body":"And Now the executives from Evil Toys Inc."},{"startTime":481.481,"endTime":484.181,"body":"And also the executives from Lizards"},{"startTime":481.481,"endTime":484.181,"body":"and Wizards, cuz maybe some of them"},{"startTime":484.181,"endTime":485.299,"body":"are the same executives, right?"},{"startTime":485.299,"endTime":485.79,"body":"Or Sure."},{"startTime":485.79,"endTime":487.563,"body":"Came, worked in the same"},{"startTime":485.79,"endTime":487.563,"body":"places as other executives."},{"startTime":487.781,"endTime":492.772,"body":"They start saying, Hey, why did, why"},{"startTime":487.781,"endTime":492.772,"body":"did we allow these other companies."},{"startTime":493.126,"endTime":496.645,"body":"To make to run a $2 million Kickstarter"},{"startTime":493.126,"endTime":496.645,"body":"and we don't get any of that."},{"startTime":496.645,"endTime":498.636,"body":"Why are we allowing that?"},{"startTime":498.717,"endTime":499.926,"body":"Because that's the only"},{"startTime":498.717,"endTime":499.926,"body":"in executive thinks."},{"startTime":499.949,"endTime":500.79,"body":"Sure, of course."},{"startTime":501.008,"endTime":503.517,"body":"One of these ex not every executive,"},{"startTime":501.008,"endTime":503.517,"body":"I'm not attacking executive."},{"startTime":503.522,"endTime":504.417,"body":"No, it's just these ones."},{"startTime":504.499,"endTime":504.663,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":505.345,"endTime":508.199,"body":"So, so now there, there are conversations"},{"startTime":505.345,"endTime":508.199,"body":"like that and that the board meetings"},{"startTime":508.226,"endTime":510.008,"body":"are getting a bit more contentious."},{"startTime":510.281,"endTime":515.736,"body":"Why are we allowing them to make"},{"startTime":510.281,"endTime":515.736,"body":"$2 million off of our product name?"},{"startTime":516.308,"endTime":520.426,"body":"So now the company comes out with"},{"startTime":516.308,"endTime":520.426,"body":"a new license and their intent"},{"startTime":520.426,"endTime":523.84,"body":"is to retroactively revoke  all"},{"startTime":520.426,"endTime":523.84,"body":"content made on a previous license."},{"startTime":524.031,"endTime":527.713,"body":"They want to take a, a percentage"},{"startTime":524.031,"endTime":527.713,"body":"of money from everyone who publishes"},{"startTime":528.322,"endTime":531.104,"body":"under the new one, under the new one"},{"startTime":528.322,"endTime":531.104,"body":"under their system, which is, let's,"},{"startTime":531.104,"endTime":533.422,"body":"let's just say it's 25%, for example."},{"startTime":533.695,"endTime":534.867,"body":"Could be any number I'm"},{"startTime":533.695,"endTime":534.867,"body":"picking outta the air."},{"startTime":534.867,"endTime":534.922,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":534.926,"endTime":535.876,"body":"But we'll just say 25%."},{"startTime":536.04,"endTime":536.122,"body":"Mm-hmm."},{"startTime":536.295,"endTime":540.74,"body":"Which, which in order for them to know"},{"startTime":536.295,"endTime":540.74,"body":"that you qualify to give them, like, let's"},{"startTime":540.745,"endTime":543.631,"body":"say they don't want 25% of like every"},{"startTime":540.745,"endTime":543.631,"body":"single individual person on the internet."},{"startTime":543.636,"endTime":544.667,"body":"Only if you're making serious money."},{"startTime":544.667,"endTime":547.04,"body":"So if you make like"},{"startTime":544.667,"endTime":547.04,"body":"$750,000, they're gonna."},{"startTime":547.795,"endTime":552.736,"body":"25% of all your revenue above your"},{"startTime":547.795,"endTime":552.736,"body":"initial $750,000, and in order for them"},{"startTime":552.736,"endTime":555.108,"body":"to know how much money you're making"},{"startTime":552.736,"endTime":555.108,"body":"off to whether, whether you should"},{"startTime":555.108,"endTime":557.236,"body":"be paying them or not, now you have"},{"startTime":555.108,"endTime":557.236,"body":"to report all your revenue to them."},{"startTime":557.454,"endTime":558.508,"body":"So there's some serious."},{"startTime":559.322,"endTime":564.095,"body":"overreach happening here, which is,"},{"startTime":559.322,"endTime":564.095,"body":"it's admittedly, it's kind of ridiculous"},{"startTime":564.476,"endTime":568.458,"body":"for me to even say like, I, I threw any"},{"startTime":564.476,"endTime":568.458,"body":"one of these could have been enough."},{"startTime":568.595,"endTime":568.786,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":568.895,"endTime":569.14,"body":"Right."},{"startTime":569.14,"endTime":570.804,"body":"So now there's a revolt."},{"startTime":570.876,"endTime":573.771,"body":"all the fans are up in arms and all the"},{"startTime":570.876,"endTime":573.771,"body":"creators are looking to protect their"},{"startTime":573.771,"endTime":574.971,"body":"own companies and their own interests."},{"startTime":574.971,"endTime":577.644,"body":"So now there's a huge"},{"startTime":574.971,"endTime":577.644,"body":"situation, big blow up."},{"startTime":577.78,"endTime":578.68,"body":"How did we get here?"},{"startTime":578.769,"endTime":579.451,"body":"How did we get here?"},{"startTime":579.915,"endTime":581.606,"body":"In this example we've gone"},{"startTime":579.915,"endTime":581.606,"body":"through a couple of the"},{"startTime":581.606,"endTime":582.887,"body":"stages of how the mighty fall."},{"startTime":583.051,"endTime":584.306,"body":"So let's back up a second."},{"startTime":584.633,"endTime":585.642,"body":"Back to stage one."},{"startTime":585.806,"endTime":588.069,"body":"Characterized it by"},{"startTime":585.806,"endTime":588.069,"body":"hubris, born of success."},{"startTime":588.26,"endTime":593.778,"body":"So, The game company who was successful,"},{"startTime":588.26,"endTime":593.778,"body":"I would even argue because they were suc,"},{"startTime":593.806,"endTime":598.306,"body":"they were bought by Evil Toys Incorporated"},{"startTime":593.806,"endTime":598.306,"body":"because they were so successful."},{"startTime":598.551,"endTime":602.478,"body":"And then the early publishing and the"},{"startTime":598.551,"endTime":602.478,"body":"license that allowed the community to"},{"startTime":602.483,"endTime":606.897,"body":"grow up and for them to be successful"},{"startTime":602.483,"endTime":606.897,"body":"was because they were allowed to"},{"startTime":606.897,"endTime":607.987,"body":"build a community in the way that."},{"startTime":608.656,"endTime":609.992,"body":"thought that they needed"},{"startTime":608.656,"endTime":609.992,"body":"to build a community."},{"startTime":610.128,"endTime":611.601,"body":"Yeah, yeah, definitely."},{"startTime":611.601,"endTime":613.456,"body":"They experienced some"},{"startTime":611.601,"endTime":613.456,"body":"success there, right?"},{"startTime":613.456,"endTime":614.247,"body":"To put it mildly."},{"startTime":614.301,"endTime":614.437,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":614.483,"endTime":615.983,"body":"so that, that was stage one."},{"startTime":615.983,"endTime":616.147,"body":"Mm-hmm."},{"startTime":616.774,"endTime":618.356,"body":". And then what happened after that?"},{"startTime":618.628,"endTime":624.344,"body":"I would argue that all of the changes in"},{"startTime":618.628,"endTime":624.344,"body":"leadership over time happened potentially"},{"startTime":624.344,"endTime":625.816,"body":"in stage one, maybe in stage two."},{"startTime":626.034,"endTime":629.853,"body":"So stage one characterized by hubris,"},{"startTime":626.034,"endTime":629.853,"body":"born of success, we can't fail.."},{"startTime":630.48,"endTime":631.271,"body":"Sure, right."},{"startTime":631.294,"endTime":631.621,"body":"Oh, all."},{"startTime":631.621,"endTime":633.584,"body":"Well, we've got all these"},{"startTime":631.621,"endTime":633.584,"body":"competitors, but none of them"},{"startTime":633.584,"endTime":634.784,"body":"matter cuz we're, we're the big dog."},{"startTime":635.039,"endTime":635.403,"body":"What we."},{"startTime":636.08,"endTime":637.28,"body":"matters, right?"},{"startTime":637.444,"endTime":641.571,"body":"Maybe you have some leadership introduced"},{"startTime":637.444,"endTime":641.571,"body":"at this point that kind of that they"},{"startTime":641.571,"endTime":642.825,"body":"don't need evidence-based management."},{"startTime":642.825,"endTime":645.007,"body":"They know where, you know"},{"startTime":642.825,"endTime":645.007,"body":"where the money is gonna be."},{"startTime":645.007,"endTime":647.08,"body":"We gotta get into movies, we"},{"startTime":645.007,"endTime":647.08,"body":"gotta get into this, we gotta"},{"startTime":647.08,"endTime":648.034,"body":"get into streaming, right?"},{"startTime":648.034,"endTime":649.589,"body":"We gotta we gotta extend"},{"startTime":648.034,"endTime":649.589,"body":"the brand into this."},{"startTime":649.725,"endTime":651.144,"body":"Just do what I say, you know."},{"startTime":651.525,"endTime":654.744,"body":"stage two is marked by"},{"startTime":651.525,"endTime":654.744,"body":"undisciplined pursuit of more"},{"startTime":654.825,"endTime":656.762,"body":"may, maybe stage two or so."},{"startTime":656.816,"endTime":659.107,"body":"Undisciplined pursuit of more here looks."},{"startTime":659.527,"endTime":661.681,"body":"I need more revenue out of this company."},{"startTime":661.681,"endTime":665.017,"body":"So how do we get more revenue, the"},{"startTime":661.681,"endTime":665.017,"body":"simple, the simplistic MBA approach"},{"startTime":665.017,"endTime":667.499,"body":"here is, I'm going to fire some people."},{"startTime":667.69,"endTime":670.981,"body":"Cut costs, trim costs, produce more"},{"startTime":667.69,"endTime":670.981,"body":"product, and charge more for that."},{"startTime":671.877,"endTime":673.786,"body":", that that would be the"},{"startTime":671.877,"endTime":673.786,"body":"right, the simple way, right?"},{"startTime":673.813,"endTime":674.058,"body":"Sure."},{"startTime":674.804,"endTime":679.004,"body":"That would be the simple way at,"},{"startTime":674.804,"endTime":679.004,"body":"at Lizards and Wizards, llc, but at"},{"startTime":679.004,"endTime":682.74,"body":"the Evil Toys Inc level, they don't"},{"startTime":679.004,"endTime":682.74,"body":"necessarily care how the gaming"},{"startTime":682.74,"endTime":684.486,"body":"company is bringing in more revenue."},{"startTime":684.758,"endTime":688.086,"body":"They will just come out and say, listen"},{"startTime":684.758,"endTime":688.086,"body":"just through the financial numbers"},{"startTime":688.09,"endTime":691.74,"body":"and through the metrics, the financial"},{"startTime":688.09,"endTime":691.74,"body":"metrics we are tracking, it seems"},{"startTime":691.931,"endTime":694.467,"body":"that this is your bottom line of what"},{"startTime":691.931,"endTime":694.467,"body":"it costs to pay all the employees."},{"startTime":694.849,"endTime":696.431,"body":"This is how much it costs"},{"startTime":694.849,"endTime":696.431,"body":"to, you know what I mean?"},{"startTime":696.431,"endTime":697.522,"body":"Print your books or whatever this is."},{"startTime":697.577,"endTime":698.613,"body":"So basically this is your inventory."},{"startTime":699.363,"endTime":703.045,"body":"This is your labor cost and"},{"startTime":699.363,"endTime":703.045,"body":"this is what it took cost per"},{"startTime":703.045,"endTime":703.863,"body":"unit or whatever, like you."},{"startTime":704.19,"endTime":708.581,"body":"Why don't you start raising prices until"},{"startTime":704.19,"endTime":708.581,"body":"the market pushes back and then you know"},{"startTime":708.581,"endTime":709.781,"body":"what your new price point's gonna be."},{"startTime":709.972,"endTime":712.658,"body":"Or a recession rolls around"},{"startTime":709.972,"endTime":712.658,"body":"and they say, look, All the"},{"startTime":712.658,"endTime":714.213,"body":"companies are raising prices now."},{"startTime":714.267,"endTime":715.631,"body":"Why don't you raise prices too?"},{"startTime":715.877,"endTime":716.613,"body":"It won't be noticed."},{"startTime":716.613,"endTime":717.649,"body":"Cause everyone's doing it now."},{"startTime":717.786,"endTime":718.113,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":718.113,"endTime":721.172,"body":"The other factor might be that"},{"startTime":718.113,"endTime":721.172,"body":"we go into a global pandemic and"},{"startTime":721.172,"endTime":723.545,"body":"they say, well, people are at home"},{"startTime":721.172,"endTime":723.545,"body":"now they're playing more games."},{"startTime":723.599,"endTime":723.899,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":723.954,"endTime":724.799,"body":"Just raise your prices."},{"startTime":724.799,"endTime":724.963,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":725.127,"endTime":726.408,"body":"So there are many, many factors there."},{"startTime":726.463,"endTime":726.763,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":726.872,"endTime":730.281,"body":"Well it's, it's a shame when all those"},{"startTime":726.872,"endTime":730.281,"body":"factors like collide and coincide"},{"startTime":730.308,"endTime":731.89,"body":"with a, like a global recession."},{"startTime":731.89,"endTime":734.454,"body":"Like you happen to raise your prices"},{"startTime":731.89,"endTime":734.454,"body":"cuz you think your customers can"},{"startTime":734.599,"endTime":736.154,"body":"not be price sensitive or whatever."},{"startTime":736.29,"endTime":737.463,"body":"And then you do that."},{"startTime":737.967,"endTime":741.104,"body":"In the same month as a global"},{"startTime":737.967,"endTime":741.104,"body":"recession really kicks in, right?"},{"startTime":741.158,"endTime":744.622,"body":"What a, what a terrible  like"},{"startTime":741.158,"endTime":744.622,"body":"we, we like characterized by"},{"startTime":744.622,"endTime":745.931,"body":"hubris, borne of success, right?"},{"startTime":745.958,"endTime":746.913,"body":"We can raise our prices."},{"startTime":746.995,"endTime":748.195,"body":"Our customers aren't gonna complain."},{"startTime":748.386,"endTime":749.586,"body":"What, what are they gonna go?"},{"startTime":749.59,"endTime":750.267,"body":"Where are they gonna go?"},{"startTime":750.295,"endTime":751.367,"body":"We got all the great products."},{"startTime":751.413,"endTime":752.013,"body":"Where are they gonna go?"},{"startTime":752.04,"endTime":752.367,"body":"Right?"},{"startTime":752.667,"endTime":754.904,"body":"And then the second is"},{"startTime":752.667,"endTime":754.904,"body":"undisciplined pursuit of more."},{"startTime":754.908,"endTime":755.131,"body":"Why?"},{"startTime":755.204,"endTime":755.913,"body":"Why raise your price?"},{"startTime":755.967,"endTime":758.34,"body":"Why, why 20% growth a year for five years?"},{"startTime":758.504,"endTime":759.131,"body":"Why do you need."},{"startTime":759.49,"endTime":761.045,"body":"Why is 10% not enough?"},{"startTime":761.045,"endTime":762.027,"body":"Like Yeah, I agree."},{"startTime":762.027,"endTime":766.24,"body":"I think the undisciplined may also"},{"startTime":762.027,"endTime":766.24,"body":"be the fact that they say we're just"},{"startTime":766.24,"endTime":767.74,"body":"gonna come out with a new license."},{"startTime":767.745,"endTime":770.167,"body":"We're gonna revoke the old"},{"startTime":767.745,"endTime":770.167,"body":"one, stop it all working."},{"startTime":770.172,"endTime":770.767,"body":"Right, right."},{"startTime":770.772,"endTime":772.049,"body":"And then we're gonna charge people."},{"startTime":772.495,"endTime":773.722,"body":"From the new one onwards."},{"startTime":773.831,"endTime":774.186,"body":"Right."},{"startTime":774.54,"endTime":778.713,"body":"undisciplined also encompasses the"},{"startTime":774.54,"endTime":778.713,"body":"fact that they say we're going to"},{"startTime":778.713,"endTime":783.677,"body":"take a cut of everybody who makes a"},{"startTime":778.713,"endTime":783.677,"body":"more than a certain number in revenue,"},{"startTime":784.331,"endTime":786.54,"body":"no less not profits in revenue."},{"startTime":786.54,"endTime":786.84,"body":"Right."},{"startTime":786.895,"endTime":787.631,"body":"Which is crazy."},{"startTime":787.658,"endTime":788.313,"body":"Right, right."},{"startTime":788.313,"endTime":789.267,"body":"That's undisciplined."},{"startTime":789.308,"endTime":793.59,"body":"well also it's, the peak of ascendancy"},{"startTime":789.308,"endTime":793.59,"body":"of his stage three characterized"},{"startTime":793.59,"endTime":794.927,"body":"by denial of risk and peril."},{"startTime":795.327,"endTime":800.581,"body":"I like, I would have to, I would have to"},{"startTime":795.327,"endTime":800.581,"body":"think that any normal person that works"},{"startTime":800.636,"endTime":803.308,"body":"at the gaming company may, maybe somebody"},{"startTime":800.636,"endTime":803.308,"body":"who works on a product line, or maybe"},{"startTime":803.308,"endTime":806.081,"body":"somebody who works in their digital tools"},{"startTime":803.308,"endTime":806.081,"body":"or whatever when they see stuff like this."},{"startTime":806.604,"endTime":811.258,"body":"Being mandated down from the, not even"},{"startTime":806.604,"endTime":811.258,"body":"the top, the, the, the top of the top,"},{"startTime":811.313,"endTime":812.54,"body":"the, the holding company basically."},{"startTime":813.14,"endTime":817.804,"body":"I wouldn't expect a, any serious product"},{"startTime":813.14,"endTime":817.804,"body":"manager to be sticking around for this."},{"startTime":817.804,"endTime":817.94,"body":"No."},{"startTime":817.945,"endTime":820.204,"body":"These kind of dictates, I"},{"startTime":817.945,"endTime":820.204,"body":"mean, this is like feature"},{"startTime":820.204,"endTime":822.113,"body":"factory type of work, you know?"},{"startTime":822.113,"endTime":822.167,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":822.167,"endTime":823.995,"body":"They're gonna be disappearing"},{"startTime":822.167,"endTime":823.995,"body":"like rats off a ship."},{"startTime":824.155,"endTime":824.592,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":824.674,"endTime":824.892,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":824.937,"endTime":831.192,"body":"I would also argue if all of your third"},{"startTime":824.937,"endTime":831.192,"body":"party publishers flee your company as"},{"startTime":831.192,"endTime":834.878,"body":"well and all of these bets, this bet"},{"startTime":831.192,"endTime":834.878,"body":"with the license and the be the bet"},{"startTime":834.883,"endTime":839.201,"body":"with , expanding into other areas or"},{"startTime":834.883,"endTime":839.201,"body":"whatever, all those bets now are gonna"},{"startTime":839.501,"endTime":842.701,"body":"turn up as losses because, oh, your"},{"startTime":839.501,"endTime":842.701,"body":"community is basically going else."},{"startTime":843.655,"endTime":843.874,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":844.21,"endTime":846.755,"body":"aka I say your community, what"},{"startTime":844.21,"endTime":846.755,"body":"I really mean is your customers."},{"startTime":846.828,"endTime":850.846,"body":"So in, in this step, he's he's"},{"startTime":846.828,"endTime":850.846,"body":"saying the denial of risk and peril."},{"startTime":851.037,"endTime":855.564,"body":"I would characterize denial of risk and"},{"startTime":851.037,"endTime":855.564,"body":"peril as we don't need to test that idea."},{"startTime":855.864,"endTime":857.964,"body":"We, we don't need to check"},{"startTime":855.864,"endTime":857.964,"body":"that with our customers."},{"startTime":858.101,"endTime":859.864,"body":"We don't need to worry about"},{"startTime":858.101,"endTime":859.864,"body":"how our customers are gonna take"},{"startTime":859.864,"endTime":861.746,"body":"this as a solid customer base."},{"startTime":861.746,"endTime":863.274,"body":"You know, we have so many, right?"},{"startTime":863.31,"endTime":866.437,"body":"they've used our old version"},{"startTime":863.31,"endTime":866.437,"body":"of our publishing license."},{"startTime":866.76,"endTime":867.524,"body":"They'll use the new one."},{"startTime":867.605,"endTime":867.769,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":867.796,"endTime":868.705,"body":"Where, where are they gonna go?"},{"startTime":869.067,"endTime":869.749,"body":"Stage four."},{"startTime":869.776,"endTime":873.53,"body":"The, the precipitous decline with the"},{"startTime":869.776,"endTime":873.53,"body":"organization grasping for salvation,"},{"startTime":873.803,"endTime":875.685,"body":"and then stage five final capitulation."},{"startTime":875.735,"endTime":878.353,"body":"It would be way too early"},{"startTime":875.735,"endTime":878.353,"body":"to call either one of these."},{"startTime":878.353,"endTime":881.726,"body":"So I I'm not gonna go off, I, but"},{"startTime":878.353,"endTime":881.726,"body":"I, I, we can take these stages"},{"startTime":881.73,"endTime":883.262,"body":"and we can call out parallel."},{"startTime":883.689,"endTime":888.771,"body":"To other organizations, uh stage One"},{"startTime":883.689,"endTime":888.771,"body":"characterized by Hubris, born of Success."},{"startTime":889.208,"endTime":892.553,"body":"In the book, he talks about"},{"startTime":889.208,"endTime":892.553,"body":"a chain of department stores."},{"startTime":892.853,"endTime":895.917,"body":"He talks about the Zayers Department"},{"startTime":892.853,"endTime":895.917,"body":"store, which is bought out by the."},{"startTime":896.549,"endTime":897.912,"body":"The ames department."},{"startTime":897.912,"endTime":900.149,"body":"I think Zayers was a"},{"startTime":897.912,"endTime":900.149,"body":"regional department source."},{"startTime":900.149,"endTime":902.458,"body":"I think Aames was like uh, up,"},{"startTime":900.149,"endTime":902.458,"body":"up and down the East Coast."},{"startTime":902.458,"endTime":904.512,"body":"Like I can't remember how,"},{"startTime":902.458,"endTime":904.512,"body":"where, where Aames where it was."},{"startTime":904.517,"endTime":906.639,"body":"I know they were in the south, but I,"},{"startTime":904.517,"endTime":906.639,"body":"I don't remember where else they were."},{"startTime":907.049,"endTime":913.221,"body":"That example of the Zayers company"},{"startTime":907.049,"endTime":913.221,"body":"was fine with small incremental"},{"startTime":913.221,"endTime":915.021,"body":"growth and, and staying in areas."},{"startTime":915.094,"endTime":917.776,"body":", actually, I think, I think in the book, I"},{"startTime":915.094,"endTime":917.776,"body":"think he says that Zayers business model"},{"startTime":917.776,"endTime":919.058,"body":"was a lot like Walmart's business model."},{"startTime":919.662,"endTime":919.771,"body":"Hmm."},{"startTime":919.821,"endTime":923.812,"body":"But they got bought out by the Aames"},{"startTime":919.821,"endTime":923.812,"body":"department store and the Aames department"},{"startTime":923.812,"endTime":927.412,"body":"store's corporate goals were, were,"},{"startTime":923.812,"endTime":927.412,"body":"were growth for the sake of growth."},{"startTime":927.985,"endTime":931.503,"body":"And in the book, he goes through some"},{"startTime":927.985,"endTime":931.503,"body":"great examples of the, of them changing"},{"startTime":931.503,"endTime":935.471,"body":"out their CEO and trying not to fail"},{"startTime":931.503,"endTime":935.471,"body":"as they I believe stages three through"},{"startTime":935.471,"endTime":936.753,"body":"five happened very quickly for them."},{"startTime":937.135,"endTime":941.212,"body":"He goes through detailing how, how they"},{"startTime":937.135,"endTime":941.212,"body":"were basically grasping for whatever they"},{"startTime":941.212,"endTime":942.603,"body":"could do to, to not go out of business."},{"startTime":942.603,"endTime":944.021,"body":"In the end, it didn't really matter,"},{"startTime":944.567,"endTime":944.703,"body":"yeah."},{"startTime":944.703,"endTime":945.903,"body":"That's the, that's an interesting point."},{"startTime":945.903,"endTime":949.612,"body":"So the, the amount of time it takes"},{"startTime":945.903,"endTime":949.612,"body":"for an organization to go through these"},{"startTime":949.617,"endTime":951.249,"body":"stages is completely variable, right?"},{"startTime":951.253,"endTime":951.285,"body":"Mm-hmm."},{"startTime":951.576,"endTime":955.994,"body":", it's not even like, okay, we're gonna"},{"startTime":951.576,"endTime":955.994,"body":"just grasp for air for a while, you know?"},{"startTime":956.076,"endTime":956.294,"body":"Right."},{"startTime":956.294,"endTime":957.103,"body":"You can go straight."},{"startTime":957.508,"endTime":959.689,"body":"Two very quickly to four."},{"startTime":959.689,"endTime":959.744,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":959.749,"endTime":962.744,"body":"Where you need CPR and then"},{"startTime":959.749,"endTime":962.744,"body":"you don't get CPR in time and,"},{"startTime":962.799,"endTime":964.817,"body":"and inevitably that happens."},{"startTime":964.844,"endTime":971.326,"body":"the interesting part of this is the how"},{"startTime":964.844,"endTime":971.326,"body":"quickly you go from one to three because"},{"startTime":971.326,"endTime":975.853,"body":"the  hubris born of success and then"},{"startTime":971.326,"endTime":975.853,"body":"the peak ascendency, like the, the, the"},{"startTime":975.853,"endTime":977.326,"body":"highest that your stock will ever be."},{"startTime":977.326,"endTime":977.68,"body":"You know what I mean?"},{"startTime":977.68,"endTime":980.162,"body":"The most stores that you'll ever"},{"startTime":977.68,"endTime":980.162,"body":"have open that kind of stuff, like"},{"startTime":980.408,"endTime":982.589,"body":"those two go very well together."},{"startTime":982.617,"endTime":982.835,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":982.917,"endTime":985.362,"body":"Because you could be ignoring your"},{"startTime":982.917,"endTime":985.362,"body":"competitors and your stock will"},{"startTime":985.362,"endTime":986.371,"body":"still be going up and up and up."},{"startTime":986.371,"endTime":993.699,"body":"It's funny that there, there is a complete"},{"startTime":986.371,"endTime":993.699,"body":"stage in between this hubris and the"},{"startTime":993.699,"endTime":995.462,"body":"highest peak that your company will reach."},{"startTime":995.835,"endTime":999.494,"body":"It's funny, there's a whole step"},{"startTime":995.835,"endTime":999.494,"body":"in the middle of that because"},{"startTime":999.494,"endTime":1001.185,"body":"you would think that those two"},{"startTime":999.494,"endTime":1001.185,"body":"would be connected, you know?"},{"startTime":1001.185,"endTime":1003.803,"body":"Well, I, I have the executives who"},{"startTime":1001.185,"endTime":1003.803,"body":"have the hubris and they don't care"},{"startTime":1003.803,"endTime":1006.135,"body":"what the customer thinks, and they"},{"startTime":1003.803,"endTime":1006.135,"body":"don't care what the the market trends"},{"startTime":1006.135,"endTime":1007.226,"body":"and they don't care about analytics."},{"startTime":1007.389,"endTime":1010.402,"body":"They only care about getting their"},{"startTime":1007.389,"endTime":1010.402,"body":"way, and then it still takes a"},{"startTime":1010.402,"endTime":1014.274,"body":"while for your company to hit its"},{"startTime":1010.402,"endTime":1014.274,"body":"peak before the decline starts."},{"startTime":1015.011,"endTime":1016.911,"body":"That that was super interesting"},{"startTime":1015.011,"endTime":1016.911,"body":"to me about this book.."},{"startTime":1017.156,"endTime":1017.911,"body":". That is interesting."},{"startTime":1017.911,"endTime":1018.129,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":1018.129,"endTime":1019.465,"body":"I wonder how long that is."},{"startTime":1019.465,"endTime":1022.138,"body":"If you were to kind of look"},{"startTime":1019.465,"endTime":1022.138,"body":"at a broad range of companies."},{"startTime":1022.138,"endTime":1022.983,"body":"I'd have to go back to the book."},{"startTime":1022.983,"endTime":1024.92,"body":"He does give time ranges in"},{"startTime":1022.983,"endTime":1024.92,"body":"every single one of these."},{"startTime":1024.92,"endTime":1025.956,"body":"He gives time ranges in the book."},{"startTime":1025.956,"endTime":1027.62,"body":"I wish I could remember off the"},{"startTime":1025.956,"endTime":1027.62,"body":"top of my head, but I can't."},{"startTime":1028.079,"endTime":1030.533,"body":"I would expect anybody listening to"},{"startTime":1028.079,"endTime":1030.533,"body":"this, especially anyone in the agile"},{"startTime":1030.533,"endTime":1033.861,"body":"field, the example they would think of"},{"startTime":1030.533,"endTime":1033.861,"body":"immediately would probably be Blockbuster."},{"startTime":1034.133,"endTime":1034.352,"body":"Right."},{"startTime":1034.352,"endTime":1037.352,"body":"You know, cuz Blockbuster had,"},{"startTime":1034.352,"endTime":1037.352,"body":"they had the chance to buy Netflix."},{"startTime":1037.488,"endTime":1041.197,"body":"So that was that, that risk and"},{"startTime":1037.488,"endTime":1041.197,"body":"peril, that denial of risk and peril."},{"startTime":1041.388,"endTime":1044.115,"body":"You know, Hey, you wanna buy this company?"},{"startTime":1044.333,"endTime":1045.424,"body":"No, that company's ridiculous."},{"startTime":1045.424,"endTime":1045.806,"body":"That's right."},{"startTime":1045.806,"endTime":1046.406,"body":"What would we ever do?"},{"startTime":1047.279,"endTime":1050.824,"body":"That's, yeah, we need all, we need in"},{"startTime":1047.279,"endTime":1050.824,"body":"person brick and mortar stores, you know?"},{"startTime":1050.824,"endTime":1051.042,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":1051.261,"endTime":1053.333,"body":"We don't need people"},{"startTime":1051.261,"endTime":1053.333,"body":"to be mailing out DVDs."},{"startTime":1053.388,"endTime":1055.479,"body":"Well, even, even Blockbuster,"},{"startTime":1053.388,"endTime":1055.479,"body":"near the end,  they tried to"},{"startTime":1055.479,"endTime":1057.524,"body":"match Netflix subscription model."},{"startTime":1057.529,"endTime":1057.852,"body":"Sure."},{"startTime":1057.852,"endTime":1059.188,"body":"And it just didn't, it was too late."},{"startTime":1059.188,"endTime":1059.724,"body":"It's too little, too late."},{"startTime":1059.724,"endTime":1060.088,"body":"It's too late."},{"startTime":1060.092,"endTime":1060.17,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":1060.215,"endTime":1061.088,"body":"And that was stage four."},{"startTime":1061.17,"endTime":1062.615,"body":"He, I think he outlines that in the book."},{"startTime":1062.615,"endTime":1065.697,"body":"that last stage isn't just"},{"startTime":1062.615,"endTime":1065.697,"body":"death, which is interesting."},{"startTime":1065.697,"endTime":1069.433,"body":"It's capitulation to irrelevance,"},{"startTime":1065.697,"endTime":1069.433,"body":"irrelevance could be how you"},{"startTime":1069.906,"endTime":1071.979,"body":"describe, say, Sears now, right?"},{"startTime":1071.979,"endTime":1072.124,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":1072.129,"endTime":1074.724,"body":"In the market space, they're"},{"startTime":1072.129,"endTime":1074.724,"body":"really not relevant anymore."},{"startTime":1074.915,"endTime":1074.997,"body":"Right."},{"startTime":1074.997,"endTime":1078.115,"body":"Even though they've been relegated, or"},{"startTime":1074.997,"endTime":1078.115,"body":"they're relegated themselves, they're."},{"startTime":1079.22,"endTime":1080.447,"body":"Like an online presence."},{"startTime":1081.192,"endTime":1083.32,"body":"It's interesting and it's"},{"startTime":1081.192,"endTime":1083.32,"body":"a, it's extremely short."},{"startTime":1083.429,"endTime":1084.52,"body":"The book is extremely short."},{"startTime":1084.765,"endTime":1086.047,"body":"We kind of talked through the stages."},{"startTime":1086.047,"endTime":1088.692,"body":"We kind of talked through the,"},{"startTime":1086.047,"endTime":1088.692,"body":"this theoretical gaming company"},{"startTime":1088.692,"endTime":1089.647,"body":"and, and their challenge."},{"startTime":1090.206,"endTime":1093.233,"body":"I had a CEO one time, they used to say,"},{"startTime":1090.206,"endTime":1093.233,"body":"when you sub, when you optimize for one"},{"startTime":1093.233,"endTime":1095.006,"body":"group, you suboptimized for another group."},{"startTime":1095.006,"endTime":1096.452,"body":"And I'm like, is that really true?"},{"startTime":1096.452,"endTime":1099.006,"body":"I don't even know if that's"},{"startTime":1096.452,"endTime":1099.006,"body":"really true but I can apply."},{"startTime":1099.797,"endTime":1103.233,"body":"To this case and think it actually is"},{"startTime":1099.797,"endTime":1103.233,"body":"sort of true by changing the wording"},{"startTime":1103.233,"endTime":1107.379,"body":"slightly and saying when you optimize"},{"startTime":1103.233,"endTime":1107.379,"body":"your company for anything other than"},{"startTime":1107.815,"endTime":1113.17,"body":"the customer, then you suboptimize"},{"startTime":1107.815,"endTime":1113.17,"body":"for the customer that's about the"},{"startTime":1113.17,"endTime":1114.997,"body":"only suboptimize it for yourself too."},{"startTime":1114.997,"endTime":1115.052,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":1115.979,"endTime":1116.115,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":1116.115,"endTime":1116.47,"body":"Pretty much."},{"startTime":1116.47,"endTime":1118.161,"body":"You sub optimize it for everybody,"},{"startTime":1118.497,"endTime":1120.761,"body":"cause I think that's, that is"},{"startTime":1118.497,"endTime":1120.761,"body":"clearly what's happening here."},{"startTime":1121.07,"endTime":1124.661,"body":"They're sub optimizing their company"},{"startTime":1121.07,"endTime":1124.661,"body":"because,  their, their holding"},{"startTime":1124.661,"endTime":1127.433,"body":"company is telling them make the"},{"startTime":1124.661,"endTime":1127.433,"body":"financial numbers look better."},{"startTime":1128.77,"endTime":1129.397,"body":"Yeah, that's it."},{"startTime":1129.533,"endTime":1130.842,"body":"Corporate greed, essentially."},{"startTime":1132.206,"endTime":1134.224,"body":"Well, you can say it's corporate"},{"startTime":1132.206,"endTime":1134.224,"body":"greed, but they'll always be people"},{"startTime":1134.224,"endTime":1137.374,"body":"that are they're like, well, the"},{"startTime":1134.224,"endTime":1137.374,"body":"financial numbers are all that matters."},{"startTime":1137.379,"endTime":1141.521,"body":"But although I would argue like, 20%"},{"startTime":1137.379,"endTime":1141.521,"body":"year over year is your expectation,"},{"startTime":1141.521,"endTime":1143.185,"body":"cuz that that's pretty unreasonable."},{"startTime":1143.239,"endTime":1143.703,"body":"It is."},{"startTime":1143.867,"endTime":1144.249,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":1144.249,"endTime":1145.449,"body":"That's very aggressive."},{"startTime":1145.558,"endTime":1145.83,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":1146.349,"endTime":1148.285,"body":"I mean it's not just aggressive,"},{"startTime":1146.349,"endTime":1148.285,"body":"it's, it's, it's crazy."},{"startTime":1148.289,"endTime":1149.139,"body":"It's unreasonable."},{"startTime":1149.144,"endTime":1153.581,"body":"It's, it's, go find the average amount"},{"startTime":1149.144,"endTime":1153.581,"body":"that normal companies of this, of their,"},{"startTime":1153.935,"endTime":1156.772,"body":"of their size and their market segment"},{"startTime":1153.935,"endTime":1156.772,"body":"or whatever uh, increase and then"},{"startTime":1156.881,"endTime":1159.926,"body":"tell me what the average is and then"},{"startTime":1156.881,"endTime":1159.926,"body":"whatever, shoot for 2% above the average."},{"startTime":1159.926,"endTime":1161.017,"body":"But it's not gonna be 20%."},{"startTime":1161.208,"endTime":1161.526,"body":"No."},{"startTime":1161.999,"endTime":1162.708,"body":"You know, I agree."},{"startTime":1162.735,"endTime":1165.108,"body":"Most companies are, what, 3%"},{"startTime":1162.735,"endTime":1165.108,"body":"year over year and that's great."},{"startTime":1165.653,"endTime":1168.244,"body":"5% and they're doing back flips 20%."},{"startTime":1169.908,"endTime":1170.181,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":1170.208,"endTime":1172.899,"body":"That's that's very, very"},{"startTime":1170.208,"endTime":1172.899,"body":"ambitious to put it mildly."},{"startTime":1173.199,"endTime":1178.017,"body":"But look these executives that are there"},{"startTime":1173.199,"endTime":1178.017,"body":"with these companies that reach the fifth"},{"startTime":1178.017,"endTime":1183.008,"body":"stage, , they're incentive to do something"},{"startTime":1178.017,"endTime":1183.008,"body":"not necessarily for the longevity"},{"startTime":1183.008,"endTime":1186.308,"body":"of the company or for the benefit of"},{"startTime":1183.008,"endTime":1186.308,"body":"the customers or anything like that."},{"startTime":1186.308,"endTime":1190.508,"body":"I'm sure whatever metrics they're"},{"startTime":1186.308,"endTime":1190.508,"body":"incented by they must be doing okay"},{"startTime":1190.513,"endTime":1193.672,"body":"because you don't see any of those"},{"startTime":1190.513,"endTime":1193.672,"body":"guys filing for unemployment, right?"},{"startTime":1193.672,"endTime":1194.626,"body":"I mean, they, they collect."},{"startTime":1195.363,"endTime":1197.353,"body":", they're whatever, bonuses, et cetera."},{"startTime":1197.353,"endTime":1197.408,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":1197.413,"endTime":1199.072,"body":"And they move to the next opportunity."},{"startTime":1199.072,"endTime":1199.263,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":1199.29,"endTime":1202.544,"body":"Well that again, now, we're we're"},{"startTime":1199.29,"endTime":1202.544,"body":"talking about stuff that Deming warned"},{"startTime":1202.549,"endTime":1205.353,"body":"about yet on another podcast is that"},{"startTime":1202.549,"endTime":1205.353,"body":"people in leadership positions, like"},{"startTime":1205.353,"endTime":1208.408,"body":"they can't be coming in and staying"},{"startTime":1205.353,"endTime":1208.408,"body":"for 18 months, two years or whatever."},{"startTime":1208.435,"endTime":1208.572,"body":"Right."},{"startTime":1208.599,"endTime":1209.39,"body":"And then moving out."},{"startTime":1209.735,"endTime":1212.899,"body":"that's not enough time to make meaningful"},{"startTime":1209.735,"endTime":1212.899,"body":"change, deep, impactful change."},{"startTime":1212.899,"endTime":1216.081,"body":"It's also the, like the, the Amazon"},{"startTime":1212.899,"endTime":1216.081,"body":"we, we didn't even talk about Amazon"},{"startTime":1216.299,"endTime":1217.826,"body":"displacing brick and mortar stores."},{"startTime":1218.263,"endTime":1220.117,"body":"We didn't even talk about"},{"startTime":1218.263,"endTime":1220.117,"body":"that, cuz that that should be"},{"startTime":1220.144,"endTime":1221.699,"body":"outlined by these steps as well."},{"startTime":1222.103,"endTime":1223.085,"body":"People would rather stay at home."},{"startTime":1223.085,"endTime":1224.122,"body":"People would rather do whatever."},{"startTime":1224.149,"endTime":1225.758,"body":"You know, people only want one thing."},{"startTime":1225.758,"endTime":1226.822,"body":"They want it delivered to them."},{"startTime":1226.822,"endTime":1229.422,"body":"They're willing to pay a little more"},{"startTime":1226.822,"endTime":1229.422,"body":"to what so they don't have to go out or"},{"startTime":1229.422,"endTime":1233.322,"body":"whatever, or, or knowing that they got a"},{"startTime":1229.422,"endTime":1233.322,"body":"cheaper price or whatever it is, right?"},{"startTime":1233.413,"endTime":1234.285,"body":"I'm getting depressed."},{"startTime":1234.313,"endTime":1235.758,"body":"Look, it's all, it's"},{"startTime":1234.313,"endTime":1235.758,"body":"all dark behind me now."},{"startTime":1236.167,"endTime":1240.658,"body":"Let's fix these problems, I would argue"},{"startTime":1236.167,"endTime":1240.658,"body":"that fixing the problem, like, we're"},{"startTime":1240.658,"endTime":1242.431,"body":"gonna start right at the top right."},{"startTime":1242.431,"endTime":1243.276,"body":"We're gonna start right at the top."},{"startTime":1243.303,"endTime":1244.09,"body":"Evil Toys Inc."},{"startTime":1244.444,"endTime":1244.744,"body":"Okay?"},{"startTime":1245.044,"endTime":1250.308,"body":"Their bonus plans now are not gonna"},{"startTime":1245.044,"endTime":1250.308,"body":"be quarter to quarter anymore."},{"startTime":1251.072,"endTime":1252.108,"body":"We're, we're gonna solve that, right?"},{"startTime":1252.767,"endTime":1255.194,"body":"Any bonus they get is"},{"startTime":1252.767,"endTime":1255.194,"body":"gonna be company stock."},{"startTime":1255.222,"endTime":1257.922,"body":"It's not gonna be a, a, a check and"},{"startTime":1255.222,"endTime":1257.922,"body":"it's not gonna be dependent quarter to."},{"startTime":1258.549,"endTime":1260.049,"body":"So we're gonna get rid of"},{"startTime":1258.549,"endTime":1260.049,"body":"that for the holding company."},{"startTime":1260.431,"endTime":1263.158,"body":"So second, now we're gonna step a"},{"startTime":1260.431,"endTime":1263.158,"body":"level down into the game company"},{"startTime":1263.213,"endTime":1266.84,"body":"and say, what, what can they"},{"startTime":1263.213,"endTime":1266.84,"body":"actually do to expand their revenue?"},{"startTime":1267.303,"endTime":1269.649,"body":"here I am now back in my expertise lane"},{"startTime":1269.794,"endTime":1273.058,"body":"if you're gonna expand revenue , we"},{"startTime":1269.794,"endTime":1273.058,"body":"have one product: Monsters \u0026 Mayhem."},{"startTime":1273.253,"endTime":1274.181,"body":"That's our, that's our product."},{"startTime":1274.181,"endTime":1275.163,"body":"People come play our game."},{"startTime":1275.235,"endTime":1276.381,"body":"There's a couple different"},{"startTime":1275.235,"endTime":1276.381,"body":"ways to play our game."},{"startTime":1276.381,"endTime":1277.444,"body":"They can play our game online."},{"startTime":1277.881,"endTime":1280.513,"body":"They can play our game at, at a table,"},{"startTime":1277.881,"endTime":1280.513,"body":"all get together, . Or they can play"},{"startTime":1280.513,"endTime":1281.876,"body":"a video game that's based on our game."},{"startTime":1282.285,"endTime":1283.349,"body":"Video game is licensing."},{"startTime":1283.458,"endTime":1284.331,"body":"We already talked about that."},{"startTime":1284.376,"endTime":1285.631,"body":"People know how to make video games."},{"startTime":1285.658,"endTime":1287.076,"body":"That should be a, a stream of revenue."},{"startTime":1287.322,"endTime":1288.003,"body":"We'll put that over here."},{"startTime":1288.003,"endTime":1289.667,"body":"We'll have, we'll have a product manager."},{"startTime":1290.035,"endTime":1293.126,"body":"For licenses to make sure that when people"},{"startTime":1290.035,"endTime":1293.126,"body":"make video games and stuff, they suit"},{"startTime":1293.126,"endTime":1294.026,"body":"our brand and all that kind of stuff."},{"startTime":1294.272,"endTime":1294.517,"body":"Right?"},{"startTime":1294.599,"endTime":1295.008,"body":"No problem."},{"startTime":1295.172,"endTime":1296.126,"body":"One person manages that."},{"startTime":1296.131,"endTime":1296.372,"body":"Right?"},{"startTime":1296.481,"endTime":1297.79,"body":"Product manager licensing,"},{"startTime":1298.426,"endTime":1300.608,"body":"we're gonna break down our customer base."},{"startTime":1300.917,"endTime":1302.653,"body":"Look could look at us"},{"startTime":1300.917,"endTime":1302.653,"body":"focusing on customers, right?"},{"startTime":1302.653,"endTime":1305.708,"body":"Customers who play video games, customers"},{"startTime":1302.653,"endTime":1305.708,"body":"who play the game on the at the table."},{"startTime":1305.844,"endTime":1308.081,"body":"Customers who play the game"},{"startTime":1305.844,"endTime":1308.081,"body":"online, like a virtual version."},{"startTime":1308.217,"endTime":1309.526,"body":"So you're stratifying customers."},{"startTime":1309.531,"endTime":1312.199,"body":"Now, I am classifying though, at"},{"startTime":1309.531,"endTime":1312.199,"body":"least I am, I'm, I'm breaking up my."},{"startTime":1313.153,"endTime":1315.163,"body":"By the way that the"},{"startTime":1313.153,"endTime":1315.163,"body":"customers consume them, yep."},{"startTime":1315.217,"endTime":1317.372,"body":"So the first thing I would do is"},{"startTime":1315.217,"endTime":1317.372,"body":"I would say quick, well, people"},{"startTime":1317.372,"endTime":1320.563,"body":"that wanna meet at the table, we're"},{"startTime":1317.372,"endTime":1320.563,"body":"gonna have a person, you're gonna"},{"startTime":1320.563,"endTime":1321.544,"body":"be the expert on those people."},{"startTime":1321.549,"endTime":1323.263,"body":"You're gonna run the product line for"},{"startTime":1321.549,"endTime":1323.263,"body":"people who wanna meet at the table."},{"startTime":1323.563,"endTime":1326.808,"body":"People who do this stuff online,"},{"startTime":1323.563,"endTime":1326.808,"body":"look, you might argue like, oh"},{"startTime":1326.813,"endTime":1328.144,"body":"well it's basically the same thing."},{"startTime":1328.144,"endTime":1328.881,"body":"You're playing the same thing."},{"startTime":1328.881,"endTime":1330.626,"body":"It's all the same rules, except"},{"startTime":1328.881,"endTime":1330.626,"body":"the technology is different."},{"startTime":1330.626,"endTime":1332.017,"body":"One has no technology, right?"},{"startTime":1332.235,"endTime":1333.499,"body":"One has a lot of technology."},{"startTime":1333.79,"endTime":1335.481,"body":"Or maybe a little bit of"},{"startTime":1333.79,"endTime":1335.481,"body":"technology or whatever."},{"startTime":1336.163,"endTime":1336.817,"body":"okay, fine."},{"startTime":1336.981,"endTime":1340.59,"body":"Then you guys seem to have the, a very"},{"startTime":1336.981,"endTime":1340.59,"body":"similar product with very probably"},{"startTime":1340.594,"endTime":1343.302,"body":"different roadmaps, but a lot of your"},{"startTime":1340.594,"endTime":1343.302,"body":"stuff probably intersects, should be"},{"startTime":1343.302,"endTime":1344.96,"body":"easy work together, plan together."},{"startTime":1345.014,"endTime":1346.514,"body":"Work together, plan"},{"startTime":1345.014,"endTime":1346.514,"body":"together, win together."},{"startTime":1346.514,"endTime":1346.732,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":1346.869,"endTime":1350.415,"body":"I kind of see this as like group product"},{"startTime":1346.869,"endTime":1350.415,"body":"manager type of stuff where maybe there's"},{"startTime":1350.46,"endTime":1353.788,"body":"one, one product manager over these three"},{"startTime":1350.46,"endTime":1353.788,"body":"different areas, and if the third party"},{"startTime":1353.788,"endTime":1356.597,"body":"publishing is such a problem, or the"},{"startTime":1353.788,"endTime":1356.597,"body":"community or whatever is such a problem,"},{"startTime":1356.597,"endTime":1360.924,"body":"then maybe we get somebody who only serves"},{"startTime":1356.597,"endTime":1360.924,"body":"all the third party people putting out our"},{"startTime":1360.924,"endTime":1364.406,"body":"license to make sure that all the stuff"},{"startTime":1360.924,"endTime":1364.406,"body":"that they're writing is in, or tracking"},{"startTime":1364.406,"endTime":1367.842,"body":"trends with what they're, because what,"},{"startTime":1364.406,"endTime":1367.842,"body":"there's nothing saying that we can't see"},{"startTime":1367.842,"endTime":1372.124,"body":"something that a third party publisher"},{"startTime":1367.842,"endTime":1372.124,"body":"is doing and say, that's really good."},{"startTime":1372.751,"endTime":1373.869,"body":"We're gonna make a version of."},{"startTime":1375.674,"endTime":1377.483,"body":"slightly different, but we're"},{"startTime":1375.674,"endTime":1377.483,"body":"gonna make a version of that."},{"startTime":1377.565,"endTime":1377.728,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":1378.192,"endTime":1381.083,"body":"So, so that when you see these $2 million"},{"startTime":1378.192,"endTime":1381.083,"body":"Kickstarters or whatever using your"},{"startTime":1381.083,"endTime":1385.038,"body":"brand, you don't say, how can we allow,"},{"startTime":1381.083,"endTime":1385.038,"body":"you can say, how can we piggyback on"},{"startTime":1385.038,"endTime":1388.01,"body":"the success of that and do something"},{"startTime":1385.038,"endTime":1388.01,"body":"where we can make money off of that too?"},{"startTime":1388.147,"endTime":1388.719,"body":"Absolutely."},{"startTime":1388.765,"endTime":1391.956,"body":"So now I've got the, the creators over"},{"startTime":1388.765,"endTime":1391.956,"body":"here that are creating for my system."},{"startTime":1391.956,"endTime":1393.101,"body":"I've got a product manager for that."},{"startTime":1393.292,"endTime":1395.692,"body":"I've got a product manager each"},{"startTime":1393.292,"endTime":1395.692,"body":"for the different ways people play."},{"startTime":1396.21,"endTime":1398.447,"body":"I've got a product manager for video"},{"startTime":1396.21,"endTime":1398.447,"body":"gaming and licensing, stuff like that."},{"startTime":1398.665,"endTime":1400.928,"body":"Maybe I wanna break into movies"},{"startTime":1398.665,"endTime":1400.928,"body":"and TV and stuff like that."},{"startTime":1400.928,"endTime":1403.928,"body":"And I need another person from that"},{"startTime":1400.928,"endTime":1403.928,"body":"business who knows the movies and"},{"startTime":1403.928,"endTime":1404.883,"body":"TV and so, you know what I mean?"},{"startTime":1404.883,"endTime":1405.974,"body":"Whatever movies."},{"startTime":1405.974,"endTime":1406.547,"body":"Let's just say movies."},{"startTime":1406.901,"endTime":1407.965,"body":"I don't know anything about making movies."},{"startTime":1407.965,"endTime":1409.601,"body":"I, I work at Evil Toys Inc."},{"startTime":1410.028,"endTime":1412.428,"body":"If you wanna print off a board"},{"startTime":1410.028,"endTime":1412.428,"body":"game, I know how to do that, right?"},{"startTime":1412.483,"endTime":1415.501,"body":"If you wanna write a game that he'll play"},{"startTime":1412.483,"endTime":1415.501,"body":"at, at at home, I know how to do that."},{"startTime":1415.501,"endTime":1417.601,"body":"I don't know anything about"},{"startTime":1415.501,"endTime":1417.601,"body":"producing movies, so I need somebody"},{"startTime":1417.601,"endTime":1422.23,"body":"from the movie industry  who also"},{"startTime":1417.601,"endTime":1422.23,"body":"enjoys my products to bridge that."},{"startTime":1422.23,"endTime":1422.839,"body":"So, you know what I mean?"},{"startTime":1422.839,"endTime":1426.239,"body":"So like, again, the movie"},{"startTime":1422.839,"endTime":1426.239,"body":"goer is a different audience."},{"startTime":1426.294,"endTime":1430.139,"body":"So I've broken down by customer, almost"},{"startTime":1426.294,"endTime":1430.139,"body":"by customer persona, that you probably"},{"startTime":1430.139,"endTime":1433.503,"body":"can get deeper in like, like for example,"},{"startTime":1430.139,"endTime":1433.503,"body":", for Monsters \u0026 Mayhem, here's this"},{"startTime":1433.503,"endTime":1435.275,"body":"new thing that helps you run a game."},{"startTime":1435.303,"endTime":1436.475,"body":"It tells you what to do or whatever."},{"startTime":1436.803,"endTime":1438.712,"body":"Most of the players don't care, right?"},{"startTime":1438.794,"endTime":1441.766,"body":"They just wanna show up and throw, dice"},{"startTime":1438.794,"endTime":1441.766,"body":"at each other and eat pizza, right?"},{"startTime":1441.766,"endTime":1442.394,"body":"And drink Mountain Dew."},{"startTime":1442.585,"endTime":1443.485,"body":"Can I get a Mountain Dew?"},{"startTime":1443.757,"endTime":1444.712,"body":", . They're not gonna buy that product."},{"startTime":1444.739,"endTime":1444.821,"body":"Right?"},{"startTime":1445.166,"endTime":1445.675,"body":"Absolutely."},{"startTime":1445.68,"endTime":1447.385,"body":"But the person running the"},{"startTime":1445.68,"endTime":1447.385,"body":"game is gonna buy that product."},{"startTime":1447.385,"endTime":1450.994,"body":"So maybe now I subdivide the audience"},{"startTime":1447.385,"endTime":1450.994,"body":"even further to say, okay, these are"},{"startTime":1450.994,"endTime":1452.085,"body":"the products for the people running."},{"startTime":1452.33,"endTime":1454.075,"body":"These are the products"},{"startTime":1452.33,"endTime":1454.075,"body":"for the people playing."},{"startTime":1454.201,"endTime":1456.71,"body":"Maybe the difference between the in-person"},{"startTime":1454.201,"endTime":1456.71,"body":"experience and the digital experience."},{"startTime":1456.928,"endTime":1458.919,"body":"So maybe it's subdivides"},{"startTime":1456.928,"endTime":1458.919,"body":"devised in like four categories."},{"startTime":1458.919,"endTime":1459.246,"body":"I don't know."},{"startTime":1459.246,"endTime":1460.283,"body":"I don't know how granular to get."},{"startTime":1460.637,"endTime":1461.919,"body":"The point is I would have to put signal."},{"startTime":1462.833,"endTime":1466.978,"body":"and try to feel out those metrics"},{"startTime":1462.833,"endTime":1466.978,"body":"to figure out where my customers"},{"startTime":1466.983,"endTime":1467.969,"body":"are and where they wanna buy."},{"startTime":1468.215,"endTime":1468.433,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":1468.433,"endTime":1473.106,"body":"So what I'm hearing is you, you"},{"startTime":1468.433,"endTime":1473.106,"body":"are really examining your customer"},{"startTime":1473.106,"endTime":1476.496,"body":"base and then segmenting that"},{"startTime":1473.106,"endTime":1476.496,"body":"down, to the degree it needs to be."},{"startTime":1476.501,"endTime":1476.615,"body":"Right."},{"startTime":1477.096,"endTime":1479.306,"body":"a product focus is what"},{"startTime":1477.096,"endTime":1479.306,"body":"I heard as well, right?"},{"startTime":1479.306,"endTime":1480.533,"body":"As opposed to just."},{"startTime":1481.215,"endTime":1484.133,"body":"A blatant doubled the"},{"startTime":1481.215,"endTime":1484.133,"body":"company in five years."},{"startTime":1484.133,"endTime":1484.433,"body":"Right."},{"startTime":1484.524,"endTime":1485.206,"body":"that kind of thing."},{"startTime":1485.669,"endTime":1486.733,"body":"And that doesn't work so well."},{"startTime":1486.733,"endTime":1487.878,"body":"It's not even doubling the company."},{"startTime":1487.878,"endTime":1488.887,"body":"That was the original goal."},{"startTime":1488.887,"endTime":1489.924,"body":"It was doubling the revenue."},{"startTime":1489.924,"endTime":1490.769,"body":"Revenue, the revenue."},{"startTime":1490.774,"endTime":1493.333,"body":"So again, when I hear double the revenue,"},{"startTime":1490.774,"endTime":1493.333,"body":"I'm like, well, just double the amount"},{"startTime":1493.333,"endTime":1496.06,"body":"of products you put out and fire half"},{"startTime":1493.333,"endTime":1496.06,"body":"the employees And, and raise the prices."},{"startTime":1496.06,"endTime":1496.769,"body":"And raise the prices."},{"startTime":1496.774,"endTime":1496.778,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":1496.778,"endTime":1499.933,"body":"Like you, like you, you cut your"},{"startTime":1496.778,"endTime":1499.933,"body":"costs to run the business in half."},{"startTime":1500.396,"endTime":1504.024,"body":"You've doubled the money that's coming in,"},{"startTime":1500.396,"endTime":1504.024,"body":"and you've made sure that because you're"},{"startTime":1504.028,"endTime":1506.533,"body":"putting out more product, you've made"},{"startTime":1504.028,"endTime":1506.533,"body":"sure that you're gonna overshoot that."},{"startTime":1507.146,"endTime":1508.592,"body":"You know, it's like the old"},{"startTime":1507.146,"endTime":1508.592,"body":"project management, like"},{"startTime":1508.592,"endTime":1509.274,"body":"how long is it gonna take?"},{"startTime":1509.274,"endTime":1511.974,"body":"Well, I'll just tell you twice as long"},{"startTime":1509.274,"endTime":1511.974,"body":"as I think it's gonna take, and then"},{"startTime":1512.192,"endTime":1513.856,"body":"we'll use that buffer of twice as long."},{"startTime":1513.883,"endTime":1514.183,"body":"You know what I mean?"},{"startTime":1514.187,"endTime":1514.819,"body":"Like that's, yeah, yeah, yeah."},{"startTime":1514.892,"endTime":1515.219,"body":"No, no."},{"startTime":1515.224,"endTime":1517.837,"body":"So like firing everyone"},{"startTime":1515.224,"endTime":1517.837,"body":"is only half of it."},{"startTime":1517.837,"endTime":1519.692,"body":"That gets you half ahead, doubling"},{"startTime":1517.837,"endTime":1519.692,"body":"the prices, gets you half ahead,"},{"startTime":1519.692,"endTime":1521.642,"body":"and then you have a little"},{"startTime":1519.692,"endTime":1521.642,"body":"extra budget A little padding."},{"startTime":1521.642,"endTime":1522.151,"body":"Yeah, A little padding."},{"startTime":1522.287,"endTime":1524.206,"body":"But that, but again, what"},{"startTime":1522.287,"endTime":1524.206,"body":"does that get you right?"},{"startTime":1524.806,"endTime":1526.442,"body":"I mean, it burns out all"},{"startTime":1524.806,"endTime":1526.442,"body":"your employees, I guess."},{"startTime":1526.524,"endTime":1528.133,"body":"You lose good people very quickly."},{"startTime":1528.806,"endTime":1533.551,"body":"so in, in turning this whole thing"},{"startTime":1528.806,"endTime":1533.551,"body":"around, right at Evil Toys as well"},{"startTime":1533.556,"endTime":1538.406,"body":"as Lizards \u0026 Wizards, the leadership"},{"startTime":1533.556,"endTime":1538.406,"body":"have to have that mentality that we're"},{"startTime":1538.406,"endTime":1540.724,"body":"going to focus on our customers, right?"},{"startTime":1540.728,"endTime":1540.906,"body":"Mm-hmm."},{"startTime":1540.983,"endTime":1543.887,"body":", which is kind of a, a 180 from before."},{"startTime":1544.115,"endTime":1547.906,"body":"Which, which we started off the podcast"},{"startTime":1544.115,"endTime":1547.906,"body":"by saying how, how to basically die a"},{"startTime":1547.906,"endTime":1549.542,"body":"quick death by hating your customers."},{"startTime":1549.546,"endTime":1549.806,"body":"Right?"},{"startTime":1549.911,"endTime":1553.838,"body":"So you need to bring people"},{"startTime":1549.911,"endTime":1553.838,"body":"in that actually care about"},{"startTime":1554.002,"endTime":1556.184,"body":"servicing the customer."},{"startTime":1556.265,"endTime":1556.511,"body":"Yep."},{"startTime":1556.82,"endTime":1557.229,"body":"you can't."},{"startTime":1558.211,"endTime":1559.918,"body":"being obsessed with the customer."},{"startTime":1560.082,"endTime":1560.9,"body":"This is an Amazon thing."},{"startTime":1560.9,"endTime":1565.741,"body":"You can't fake being like you"},{"startTime":1560.9,"endTime":1565.741,"body":". Just Jeffrey Bezos also . Okay."},{"startTime":1565.878,"endTime":1567.268,"body":"He shows his head again on a podcast."},{"startTime":1567.496,"endTime":1568.45,"body":"You can't fake this."},{"startTime":1568.45,"endTime":1570.25,"body":"You can't fake empathy in this case."},{"startTime":1570.632,"endTime":1571.396,"body":"You've gotta have it."},{"startTime":1571.441,"endTime":1574.979,"body":"You can drive out empathy pretty easily"},{"startTime":1571.441,"endTime":1574.979,"body":"by just optimizing for metrics that,"},{"startTime":1574.979,"endTime":1576.743,"body":"it's, you don't care about empathy."},{"startTime":1576.934,"endTime":1579.934,"body":"It's all these, none of these metrics"},{"startTime":1576.934,"endTime":1579.934,"body":"are based on anything empathetic or"},{"startTime":1579.934,"endTime":1582.115,"body":"anything that requires empathy, you know?"},{"startTime":1582.115,"endTime":1582.306,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":1582.743,"endTime":1583.015,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":1584.243,"endTime":1585.934,"body":"Oh, well, hopefully Evil Toys Inc."},{"startTime":1585.961,"endTime":1588.984,"body":"Can pull it off and have a"},{"startTime":1585.961,"endTime":1588.984,"body":"cultural shift in revolution."},{"startTime":1589.27,"endTime":1593.379,"body":"or go down the road, the"},{"startTime":1589.27,"endTime":1593.379,"body":"route of I relevancy or die?"},{"startTime":1593.379,"endTime":1594.061,"body":"Yeah, yeah."},{"startTime":1594.115,"endTime":1594.688,"body":"Or die of death."},{"startTime":1594.934,"endTime":1599.138,"body":"Well, probably what would happen in this"},{"startTime":1594.934,"endTime":1599.138,"body":"scenario in, in real life would be at some"},{"startTime":1599.138,"endTime":1603.438,"body":"point, the, the, those bean encounters"},{"startTime":1599.138,"endTime":1603.438,"body":"over at evil Toys, ankles, just say,"},{"startTime":1603.629,"endTime":1606.92,"body":"we're just not, we're just not getting"},{"startTime":1603.629,"endTime":1606.92,"body":"what we need out of Lizards and Wizard."},{"startTime":1606.938,"endTime":1607.974,"body":"So we're just gonna sell it."},{"startTime":1608.147,"endTime":1610.156,"body":"break up the company, do an Al Dunlap."},{"startTime":1610.97,"endTime":1615.552,"body":"that would be stage 4 I would think"},{"startTime":1610.97,"endTime":1615.552,"body":"stage, stage four here would be like"},{"startTime":1615.556,"endTime":1619.597,"body":"GE cutting off entire swaths of its"},{"startTime":1615.556,"endTime":1619.597,"body":"organization and selling it to try to get"},{"startTime":1619.597,"endTime":1620.934,"body":"the capital to keep the company running."},{"startTime":1621.111,"endTime":1622.256,"body":"To make payroll basically."},{"startTime":1622.284,"endTime":1622.447,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":1622.493,"endTime":1625.684,"body":"while it tries to figure out how"},{"startTime":1622.493,"endTime":1625.684,"body":"to pull out of this death spiral."},{"startTime":1625.793,"endTime":1626.011,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":1626.065,"endTime":1628.329,"body":"You know, Sunbeam is"},{"startTime":1626.065,"endTime":1628.329,"body":"another example, Phillips."},{"startTime":1628.384,"endTime":1628.547,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":1628.547,"endTime":1631.002,"body":"There, there are quite a few"},{"startTime":1628.547,"endTime":1631.002,"body":"companies that basically do this."},{"startTime":1631.002,"endTime":1631.247,"body":"Right."},{"startTime":1631.252,"endTime":1631.329,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":1631.329,"endTime":1632.72,"body":"Just trying to stay on life support."},{"startTime":1632.747,"endTime":1632.993,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":1633.074,"endTime":1633.329,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":1633.334,"endTime":1634.561,"body":"The software development"},{"startTime":1633.334,"endTime":1634.561,"body":"equivalent of this."},{"startTime":1634.765,"endTime":1637.774,"body":"Is like firing everyone in"},{"startTime":1634.765,"endTime":1637.774,"body":"offshoring entire products."},{"startTime":1637.829,"endTime":1639.138,"body":"You know, I've seen that a lot too."},{"startTime":1639.138,"endTime":1641.865,"body":"which, which is it's, I feel"},{"startTime":1639.138,"endTime":1641.865,"body":"it's been rolled back, or maybe"},{"startTime":1641.865,"endTime":1644.129,"body":"I just don't, maybe I just don't"},{"startTime":1641.865,"endTime":1644.129,"body":"associate with those companies."},{"startTime":1644.134,"endTime":1647.67,"body":"I, I don't know which one it is, but"},{"startTime":1644.134,"endTime":1647.67,"body":"I feel like the, the, the, the need to"},{"startTime":1647.67,"endTime":1649.47,"body":"offshore is kind of rolled back as well."},{"startTime":1649.952,"endTime":1653.361,"body":"Uh, but that is part of this stage four."},{"startTime":1653.415,"endTime":1654.315,"body":"Yeah, absolutely."},{"startTime":1654.506,"endTime":1656.906,"body":"Well, I'm trying to think of whether"},{"startTime":1654.506,"endTime":1656.906,"body":"I've actually fixed a problem."},{"startTime":1656.911,"endTime":1658.488,"body":"So I've, I've changed"},{"startTime":1656.911,"endTime":1658.488,"body":"corporate incentives."},{"startTime":1658.888,"endTime":1661.315,"body":", for both the holding company"},{"startTime":1658.888,"endTime":1661.315,"body":"and the gaming company."},{"startTime":1661.343,"endTime":1663.524,"body":"I, I guess I didn't say that I"},{"startTime":1661.343,"endTime":1663.524,"body":"changed corporate incentives."},{"startTime":1663.743,"endTime":1666.524,"body":"I said I changed corporate incentives"},{"startTime":1663.743,"endTime":1666.524,"body":"at Evil Toys Company, but I didn't say"},{"startTime":1666.524,"endTime":1669.961,"body":"that I changed corporate incentives"},{"startTime":1666.524,"endTime":1669.961,"body":"at Lizards and Wizards, llc, but I did"},{"startTime":1670.006,"endTime":1673.006,"body":"You get company long-term stock"},{"startTime":1670.006,"endTime":1673.006,"body":"and you don't get a, a big bonus"},{"startTime":1673.006,"endTime":1676.27,"body":"anymore, and you don't get a"},{"startTime":1673.006,"endTime":1676.27,"body":"Silicon Valley pay anymore, right."},{"startTime":1676.27,"endTime":1676.952,"body":"You know, you get no."},{"startTime":1676.952,"endTime":1679.324,"body":"And that, that right there"},{"startTime":1676.952,"endTime":1679.324,"body":"will stop our revolving."},{"startTime":1680.034,"endTime":1682.052,"body":"X Microsoft, Amazon employee,"},{"startTime":1680.034,"endTime":1682.052,"body":"you know what I mean?"},{"startTime":1682.097,"endTime":1685.615,"body":"It'll stop that revolving door of"},{"startTime":1682.097,"endTime":1685.615,"body":"people with the same mindset just being"},{"startTime":1685.615,"endTime":1688.097,"body":"brought in and cycling in and out."},{"startTime":1688.124,"endTime":1690.988,"body":"You know, get getting their bonuses"},{"startTime":1688.124,"endTime":1690.988,"body":"for two years and then cycling out."},{"startTime":1691.534,"endTime":1691.806,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":1691.806,"endTime":1693.72,"body":"And it's not just individuals here, right?"},{"startTime":1693.856,"endTime":1697.92,"body":"People who come in that way bring in"},{"startTime":1693.856,"endTime":1697.92,"body":"their, their posse with them, typically."},{"startTime":1697.92,"endTime":1700.406,"body":"So, cause they they, they know"},{"startTime":1697.92,"endTime":1700.406,"body":"people they've worked with that they"},{"startTime":1700.406,"endTime":1703.243,"body":"trust, so they're gonna bring in"},{"startTime":1700.406,"endTime":1703.243,"body":"their right hand, left hand people."},{"startTime":1703.247,"endTime":1703.343,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":1703.347,"endTime":1703.434,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":1703.488,"endTime":1705.206,"body":"So this is actually quite significant."},{"startTime":1705.211,"endTime":1709.106,"body":"If you stop that revolving door, you"},{"startTime":1705.211,"endTime":1709.106,"body":"should see a pretty good turnaround,"},{"startTime":1709.106,"endTime":1712.952,"body":"like pretty quickly, at least in"},{"startTime":1709.106,"endTime":1712.952,"body":"effect, very quickly be marked effect."},{"startTime":1714.179,"endTime":1718.734,"body":"I almost uh, shudder to ask would"},{"startTime":1714.179,"endTime":1718.734,"body":"like somebody from Evil Toys"},{"startTime":1718.734,"endTime":1720.07,"body":"Inc listens to this podcast?"},{"startTime":1720.124,"endTime":1720.315,"body":"No."},{"startTime":1720.37,"endTime":1721.297,"body":"First of all, never gonna happen."},{"startTime":1721.434,"endTime":1724.897,"body":"But someone, people from a holding company"},{"startTime":1721.434,"endTime":1724.897,"body":"looking for advice on how to, how to"},{"startTime":1724.897,"endTime":1726.452,"body":"actually improve, like never gonna happen."},{"startTime":1726.779,"endTime":1729.806,"body":"But if they actually listen to the"},{"startTime":1726.779,"endTime":1729.806,"body":"podcast and take all of the, you should"},{"startTime":1729.806,"endTime":1732.624,"body":"segment your products this way, and"},{"startTime":1729.806,"endTime":1732.624,"body":"you should figure out who your personas"},{"startTime":1732.629,"endTime":1735.661,"body":"are and start breaking up your product"},{"startTime":1732.629,"endTime":1735.661,"body":"lines by who they're servicing and"},{"startTime":1735.661,"endTime":1738.715,"body":"actually running surveys with those"},{"startTime":1735.661,"endTime":1738.715,"body":"customers and figuring out why, why"},{"startTime":1738.715,"endTime":1741.443,"body":"they're not happy, and actually talking"},{"startTime":1738.715,"endTime":1741.443,"body":"to them, talking to your customers."},{"startTime":1741.806,"endTime":1746.552,"body":"I almost s shutter to say, can you keep"},{"startTime":1741.806,"endTime":1746.552,"body":"this taylorist holding company management"},{"startTime":1746.606,"endTime":1753.52,"body":"concepts that these people have brought"},{"startTime":1746.606,"endTime":1753.52,"body":"in and use this new sort of way of"},{"startTime":1753.547,"endTime":1755.293,"body":"managing products and focusing on you."},{"startTime":1755.447,"endTime":1757.147,"body":"I, I don't think those"},{"startTime":1755.447,"endTime":1757.147,"body":"two worlds are compatible."},{"startTime":1757.374,"endTime":1757.997,"body":"I agree with you."},{"startTime":1757.997,"endTime":1758.843,"body":"I don't think they are."},{"startTime":1759.115,"endTime":1763.288,"body":"I think people's mindsets are"},{"startTime":1759.115,"endTime":1763.288,"body":"fixed on certain things at"},{"startTime":1763.288,"endTime":1764.488,"body":"the holding company level."},{"startTime":1764.652,"endTime":1764.815,"body":"Mm-hmm."},{"startTime":1765.12,"endTime":1769.688,"body":". And the minute those executives from"},{"startTime":1765.12,"endTime":1769.688,"body":"Lizards and wizards say here are some"},{"startTime":1769.688,"endTime":1771.352,"body":"statistics around our customer base."},{"startTime":1771.352,"endTime":1771.597,"body":"Right."},{"startTime":1772.347,"endTime":1773.82,"body":"don't wanna know about that, right?"},{"startTime":1773.902,"endTime":1774.202,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":1774.256,"endTime":1775.511,"body":"Have we doubled our revenue?"},{"startTime":1775.538,"endTime":1779.111,"body":"Have we increased it by you know,"},{"startTime":1775.538,"endTime":1779.111,"body":"whatever it is that they want, right?"},{"startTime":1779.184,"endTime":1781.174,"body":"That mindset is what got 'em into trouble."},{"startTime":1781.202,"endTime":1783.138,"body":"And unless that changes,"},{"startTime":1781.202,"endTime":1783.138,"body":"they're gonna stay in trouble."},{"startTime":1783.278,"endTime":1786.814,"body":"Oh, the old fix mindset again, here it is."},{"startTime":1786.832,"endTime":1787.723,"body":"One more time."},{"startTime":1787.728,"endTime":1790.041,"body":"It rears his head fixed mindset."},{"startTime":1790.317,"endTime":1792.799,"body":"Yeah, it's hard to have a growth"},{"startTime":1790.317,"endTime":1792.799,"body":"mindset when you're living in a"},{"startTime":1792.799,"endTime":1795.471,"body":"culture where all your incentives"},{"startTime":1792.799,"endTime":1795.471,"body":"are basically the opposite of that."},{"startTime":1796.426,"endTime":1796.89,"body":"That's it."},{"startTime":1796.894,"endTime":1798.008,"body":"That's the bottom line on that."},{"startTime":1799.071,"endTime":1800.217,"body":"Lizards and wizards."},{"startTime":1800.544,"endTime":1800.844,"body":"Yep."},{"startTime":1801.081,"endTime":1801.717,"body":"Oh, no."},{"startTime":1801.717,"endTime":1803.626,"body":"Dragons were slayed in the"},{"startTime":1801.717,"endTime":1803.626,"body":"making of this podcast,"},{"startTime":1804.553,"endTime":1807.471,"body":"They definitely were not like"},{"startTime":1804.553,"endTime":1807.471,"body":"we're, we are a drop in the bucket."},{"startTime":1807.544,"endTime":1809.235,"body":"Of the rage connected to this podcast."},{"startTime":1809.562,"endTime":1811.799,"body":"You're welcome Liz and"},{"startTime":1809.562,"endTime":1811.799,"body":"Wizards and Evil Toys Inc."},{"startTime":1811.799,"endTime":1812.781,"body":"We've solved all your problems."},{"startTime":1812.781,"endTime":1816.49,"body":"All you gotta do is change your culture"},{"startTime":1812.781,"endTime":1816.49,"body":"and actually care about your customers and"},{"startTime":1816.499,"endTime":1818.19,"body":"not try to just squeeze out all the money."},{"startTime":1818.408,"endTime":1821.221,"body":"We didn't even talk about uh,"},{"startTime":1818.408,"endTime":1821.221,"body":"digital products or buying them"},{"startTime":1821.226,"endTime":1824.549,"body":"buying other companies to, to"},{"startTime":1821.226,"endTime":1824.549,"body":"bolster their digital products."},{"startTime":1824.631,"endTime":1824.821,"body":"Right?"},{"startTime":1824.867,"endTime":1827.576,"body":"Which they, which they still don't"},{"startTime":1824.867,"endTime":1827.576,"body":"do, which is ridiculous cuz have they."},{"startTime":1828.517,"endTime":1832.217,"body":", uh when they originally wanted to"},{"startTime":1828.517,"endTime":1832.217,"body":"do it back in like 2007 or something"},{"startTime":1832.217,"endTime":1834.844,"body":"like that but writing software"},{"startTime":1832.217,"endTime":1834.844,"body":"was hard, so they didn't do it."},{"startTime":1835.335,"endTime":1837.571,"body":"Which is why they brought all these"},{"startTime":1835.335,"endTime":1837.571,"body":"Microsoft people in in the first place."},{"startTime":1837.576,"endTime":1839.508,"body":"By the way, that's, that's"},{"startTime":1837.576,"endTime":1839.508,"body":"how the Microsoft people got a"},{"startTime":1839.508,"endTime":1840.844,"body":"foothold in the culture, right?"},{"startTime":1840.844,"endTime":1843.871,"body":"They brought in a bunch of ex"},{"startTime":1840.844,"endTime":1843.871,"body":"Microsoft people to build in software"},{"startTime":1844.335,"endTime":1845.617,"body":"to have a digital experience."},{"startTime":1845.835,"endTime":1847.935,"body":"I was talking about playing at the"},{"startTime":1845.835,"endTime":1847.935,"body":"tabletop versus playing digital."},{"startTime":1847.99,"endTime":1848.099,"body":"Mm-hmm."},{"startTime":1848.344,"endTime":1850.744,"body":"to build them a digital experience,"},{"startTime":1848.344,"endTime":1850.744,"body":"and then all these people just failed."},{"startTime":1851.208,"endTime":1853.935,"body":"So of course, what what do you do in,"},{"startTime":1851.208,"endTime":1853.935,"body":"you're a leadership and you fail at the."},{"startTime":1854.944,"endTime":1855.599,"body":"you get promoted."},{"startTime":1856.117,"endTime":1856.635,"body":"Exactly."},{"startTime":1856.635,"endTime":1857.699,"body":"Yeah, yeah, yeah."},{"startTime":1857.917,"endTime":1860.399,"body":"Promoted to your highest"},{"startTime":1857.917,"endTime":1860.399,"body":"level of incompetence, right?"},{"startTime":1860.562,"endTime":1860.917,"body":"That's right."},{"startTime":1861.353,"endTime":1864.531,"body":"Well folks, thank you for staying"},{"startTime":1861.353,"endTime":1864.531,"body":"with us so far, and let us know what"},{"startTime":1864.531,"endTime":1868.19,"body":"you think of this podcast down in the"},{"startTime":1864.531,"endTime":1868.19,"body":"comments section, subscribe and like,"},{"startTime":1868.244,"endTime":1869.417,"body":"and, and, and more goodness come."},{"startTime":1869.417,"endTime":1871.917,"body":"And whatever you think of the"},{"startTime":1869.417,"endTime":1871.917,"body":"podcast we reserve the right"},{"startTime":1871.917,"endTime":1875.69,"body":"to republish your comments and"},{"startTime":1871.917,"endTime":1875.69,"body":"take all your revenue . Oh boy."},{"startTime":1876.617,"endTime":1877.299,"body":"What a debacle."}]}