{"version":"1.0.0","segments":[{"startTime":0.043,"endTime":2.313,"body":"Welcome to the Arguing Agile"},{"startTime":0.043,"endTime":2.313,"body":"podcast, where we uncover"},{"startTime":2.313,"endTime":3.539,"body":"the strategies and mindset."},{"startTime":3.713,"endTime":5.878,"body":"Top tier Agile coaches and scrum masters."},{"startTime":6.034,"endTime":9.973,"body":"Join us as we talk to industry experts and"},{"startTime":6.034,"endTime":9.973,"body":"successful practitioners to help you take"},{"startTime":9.973,"endTime":11.695,"body":"your coaching skills to the next level."},{"startTime":11.8,"endTime":14.773,"body":"This podcast is for anyone looking"},{"startTime":11.8,"endTime":14.773,"body":"to excel in the world of agile."},{"startTime":14.8,"endTime":16.234,"body":"Let's get started."},{"startTime":16.939,"endTime":17.513,"body":"Me, me, me."},{"startTime":18.895,"endTime":20.043,"body":"This is why I don't do intros."},{"startTime":20.069,"endTime":21.426,"body":"Yeah, because like, it's awkward."},{"startTime":21.495,"endTime":26.247,"body":"This episode we're talking about being"},{"startTime":21.495,"endTime":26.247,"body":"a top tier agile coach, but also scrum"},{"startTime":26.247,"endTime":27.891,"body":"master, but also agile practitioner"},{"startTime":27.891,"endTime":29.386,"body":"what does it take to be"},{"startTime":27.891,"endTime":29.386,"body":"a better Agile Coach?"},{"startTime":29.508,"endTime":32.717,"body":"What do the top tier agile coaches,"},{"startTime":29.508,"endTime":32.717,"body":"the people who are sought out for"},{"startTime":32.717,"endTime":34.621,"body":"their ability, what do they look like?"},{"startTime":34.621,"endTime":35.404,"body":"How are they different?"},{"startTime":36.195,"endTime":38.565,"body":"I think vision is the"},{"startTime":36.195,"endTime":38.565,"body":"one I would start with."},{"startTime":38.617,"endTime":43.722,"body":"So the, i, the idea that the best agile"},{"startTime":38.617,"endTime":43.722,"body":"coaches, , I'm talking the enterprise"},{"startTime":43.722,"endTime":46.467,"body":"advocate, like the, the people who"},{"startTime":43.722,"endTime":46.467,"body":"can wrangle a, a company segment"},{"startTime":46.467,"endTime":51.432,"body":"in the hundreds or above a hundred,"},{"startTime":46.467,"endTime":51.432,"body":"basically many teams they have a vision."},{"startTime":51.98,"endTime":54.693,"body":"And also the like, now that I, now"},{"startTime":51.98,"endTime":54.693,"body":"that I just brought this up now that"},{"startTime":54.693,"endTime":58.328,"body":"I allow me to project for a second"},{"startTime":54.693,"endTime":58.328,"body":"there's not a big difference between."},{"startTime":58.628,"endTime":62.306,"body":"An agile coach projecting a vision"},{"startTime":58.628,"endTime":62.306,"body":"and, and quite literally anyone"},{"startTime":62.306,"endTime":63.95,"body":"in leadership projecting a vision."},{"startTime":63.993,"endTime":66.837,"body":"I think the most successful"},{"startTime":63.993,"endTime":66.837,"body":"agile coaches here have a vision."},{"startTime":67.332,"endTime":69.498,"body":"They're, they're not just"},{"startTime":67.332,"endTime":69.498,"body":"p punch in the agile clock."},{"startTime":69.498,"endTime":71.089,"body":"Well, was Can you even punch a clock?"},{"startTime":71.132,"endTime":71.263,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":71.263,"endTime":74.941,"body":"So this is one of the reasons why"},{"startTime":71.263,"endTime":74.941,"body":"Enterprise Agile coaches, when they"},{"startTime":74.941,"endTime":78.515,"body":"first come in, they follow the,"},{"startTime":74.941,"endTime":78.515,"body":"the mantra of, just observe, right?"},{"startTime":78.515,"endTime":79.402,"body":"Don't change anything."},{"startTime":79.767,"endTime":83.158,"body":"When they're observing, what they're"},{"startTime":79.767,"endTime":83.158,"body":"doing is really establishing not only"},{"startTime":83.785,"endTime":88.402,"body":"the brief recent history, but also where"},{"startTime":83.785,"endTime":88.402,"body":"are the teams at, where's leadership at?"},{"startTime":88.402,"endTime":89.706,"body":"Like, what's the status quo?"},{"startTime":90.045,"endTime":90.776,"body":"And once they have."},{"startTime":91.819,"endTime":93.124,"body":", which may take a little bit of time."},{"startTime":93.124,"endTime":93.176,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":93.176,"endTime":96.663,"body":"Depending on the size of the the portfolio"},{"startTime":93.176,"endTime":96.663,"body":"or, or the business that they're trying"},{"startTime":96.663,"endTime":101.35,"body":"to influence, then they need to have a"},{"startTime":96.663,"endTime":101.35,"body":"vision because just simply looking at"},{"startTime":101.354,"endTime":105.185,"body":"the teams and saying my vision is to make"},{"startTime":101.354,"endTime":105.185,"body":"sure that everybody follows these scrum"},{"startTime":105.185,"endTime":107.115,"body":"events and ceremonies and whatever else."},{"startTime":107.167,"endTime":107.35,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":108.145,"endTime":108.876,"body":", that's not enough."},{"startTime":108.902,"endTime":111.98,"body":"That might be part and parcel of"},{"startTime":108.902,"endTime":111.98,"body":"getting the teams to practice good"},{"startTime":112.032,"endTime":116.05,"body":"agile practices, but that's just"},{"startTime":112.032,"endTime":116.05,"body":"a very small part of it, right?"},{"startTime":116.05,"endTime":119.102,"body":"You, you need to figure out, as an"},{"startTime":116.05,"endTime":119.102,"body":"agile coach, where you're trying"},{"startTime":119.102,"endTime":120.563,"body":"to take the organization mm-hmm."},{"startTime":120.85,"endTime":125.415,"body":", and wherever there is you need,"},{"startTime":120.85,"endTime":125.415,"body":"you need now a path to get there."},{"startTime":125.832,"endTime":128.05,"body":"So that's really what"},{"startTime":125.832,"endTime":128.05,"body":"I mean by, by vision."},{"startTime":128.05,"endTime":129.85,"body":"Now that's a different vision"},{"startTime":128.05,"endTime":129.85,"body":"than perhaps something."},{"startTime":130.898,"endTime":133.385,"body":"Somebody within the company, the"},{"startTime":130.898,"endTime":133.385,"body":"organization has, whether they are a"},{"startTime":133.385,"endTime":135.88,"body":"manager or leader C level person mm-hmm."},{"startTime":136.089,"endTime":139.063,"body":", their vision is slightly different"},{"startTime":136.089,"endTime":139.063,"body":"because their interests are different."},{"startTime":139.124,"endTime":143.085,"body":"As an coach, your interests are to"},{"startTime":139.124,"endTime":143.085,"body":"get to the point where, The teams"},{"startTime":143.085,"endTime":146.911,"body":"are performing and day in, day out"},{"startTime":143.085,"endTime":146.911,"body":"and they're continuously improving."},{"startTime":146.937,"endTime":147.067,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":147.137,"endTime":150.45,"body":"So that's the, the motivation for"},{"startTime":147.137,"endTime":150.45,"body":"an agile coach to have a vision."},{"startTime":150.45,"endTime":152.119,"body":"Without that, you're"},{"startTime":150.45,"endTime":152.119,"body":"just muddling through."},{"startTime":153.215,"endTime":157.076,"body":"I'm trying to think of places"},{"startTime":153.215,"endTime":157.076,"body":"that I've been before where"},{"startTime":157.128,"endTime":159.215,"body":"there's been a strong vision."},{"startTime":159.724,"endTime":164.471,"body":"For the process because that,"},{"startTime":159.724,"endTime":164.471,"body":"that's the segment that I would"},{"startTime":164.471,"endTime":168.376,"body":"put in, uh in the agile coach's"},{"startTime":164.471,"endTime":168.376,"body":"responsibility, realm of responsibility."},{"startTime":168.402,"endTime":169.498,"body":"Area of responsibility."},{"startTime":169.524,"endTime":171.167,"body":"I don't know, I don't know why"},{"startTime":169.524,"endTime":171.167,"body":"I'm even talking like this."},{"startTime":171.167,"endTime":172.941,"body":"This is not a way that I talk normally."},{"startTime":172.941,"endTime":173.437,"body":"This is so weird."},{"startTime":173.654,"endTime":176.402,"body":"but, uh hey, what is the vision"},{"startTime":173.654,"endTime":176.402,"body":"for how we all work together?"},{"startTime":176.767,"endTime":179.845,"body":"You could say the culture as well, but"},{"startTime":176.767,"endTime":179.845,"body":"culture is not necessarily just process."},{"startTime":179.845,"endTime":180.55,"body":"It's part of it."},{"startTime":181.045,"endTime":181.541,"body":"Absolutely."},{"startTime":181.541,"endTime":181.75,"body":"You know?"},{"startTime":181.924,"endTime":182.306,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":182.311,"endTime":182.324,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":182.324,"endTime":186.767,"body":"And I think you I think as far as"},{"startTime":182.324,"endTime":186.767,"body":"agile coaches needing to have a vision"},{"startTime":187.237,"endTime":188.567,"body":"product, coaches need to have a vision."},{"startTime":188.88,"endTime":189.141,"body":"Sure."},{"startTime":189.141,"endTime":190.602,"body":"Your, your coaching product folks, right."},{"startTime":190.602,"endTime":192.585,"body":"You need to have a vision of"},{"startTime":190.602,"endTime":192.585,"body":"where you're trying to get to."},{"startTime":192.886,"endTime":195.777,"body":"What would a vision look like when you"},{"startTime":192.886,"endTime":195.777,"body":"say, oh okay, I'm a podcast listener,"},{"startTime":195.777,"endTime":197.369,"body":"and I'm saying, okay, I makes sense."},{"startTime":197.416,"endTime":199.086,"body":"What you guys are saying"},{"startTime":197.416,"endTime":199.086,"body":"makes sense to me."},{"startTime":199.477,"endTime":202.399,"body":"What is, what's an example of what"},{"startTime":199.477,"endTime":202.399,"body":"a vision would be that would be."},{"startTime":203.169,"endTime":203.508,"body":"Jumped."},{"startTime":203.638,"endTime":204.29,"body":"It's a great question."},{"startTime":204.29,"endTime":206.334,"body":"So I think that's probably"},{"startTime":204.29,"endTime":206.334,"body":"when everybody sits around the"},{"startTime":206.334,"endTime":208.108,"body":"table holds hands and Oh no."},{"startTime":208.395,"endTime":209.229,"body":"Has a seance."},{"startTime":209.308,"endTime":209.334,"body":"Oh."},{"startTime":209.725,"endTime":212.777,"body":"Um, one of the, one of the things"},{"startTime":209.725,"endTime":212.777,"body":"you have to talk to dead people."},{"startTime":212.803,"endTime":212.934,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":212.934,"endTime":213.638,"body":"Talk to dead people."},{"startTime":213.638,"endTime":214.473,"body":"I see dead people."},{"startTime":214.734,"endTime":217.864,"body":"Um, and one of the things you gotta"},{"startTime":214.734,"endTime":217.864,"body":"figure out is who are your allies"},{"startTime":217.864,"endTime":221.203,"body":"when you know, in trying to help you"},{"startTime":217.864,"endTime":221.203,"body":"with attaining this vision you have,"},{"startTime":222.012,"endTime":223.108,"body":"so lemme just roll back a little bit."},{"startTime":223.16,"endTime":223.708,"body":"You have a."},{"startTime":223.834,"endTime":224.616,"body":"What do you do with it?"},{"startTime":224.695,"endTime":224.877,"body":"Right?"},{"startTime":224.877,"endTime":225.79,"body":"Is it just in your head?"},{"startTime":226.312,"endTime":228.712,"body":"And so that's, that's probably"},{"startTime":226.312,"endTime":228.712,"body":"a good place for us to kind of"},{"startTime":228.79,"endTime":230.277,"body":"initiate this conversation further."},{"startTime":230.642,"endTime":233.642,"body":"You have a vision, you've gotta share"},{"startTime":230.642,"endTime":233.642,"body":"it with leadership that hired you."},{"startTime":233.642,"endTime":234.025,"body":"Mm-hmm."},{"startTime":234.095,"endTime":237.799,"body":", get them on board and then say,"},{"startTime":234.095,"endTime":237.799,"body":"in order for me to deliver on this"},{"startTime":237.799,"endTime":239.39,"body":"vision, here are things that I need."},{"startTime":239.395,"endTime":243.334,"body":"And be, do that very, very quickly as"},{"startTime":239.395,"endTime":243.334,"body":"soon as you have a vision established."},{"startTime":243.655,"endTime":247.508,"body":"because without having,  means resources."},{"startTime":247.69,"endTime":249.542,"body":"You're not gonna be able"},{"startTime":247.69,"endTime":249.542,"body":"to be successful Yeah."},{"startTime":249.542,"endTime":250.325,"body":"In meeting your vision."},{"startTime":250.508,"endTime":252.96,"body":"So be upfront and say, this is the vision."},{"startTime":252.96,"endTime":253.612,"body":"Do you agree?"},{"startTime":253.769,"endTime":255.177,"body":"This is why I have this vision."},{"startTime":255.229,"endTime":255.255,"body":"Mm."},{"startTime":255.569,"endTime":259.795,"body":"And then you go in and say, okay,"},{"startTime":255.569,"endTime":259.795,"body":"here's what I need in order to do this."},{"startTime":259.795,"endTime":260.029,"body":"Mm-hmm."},{"startTime":260.621,"endTime":263.073,"body":", whatever those things look like,"},{"startTime":260.621,"endTime":263.073,"body":"whether it's team members, whether"},{"startTime":263.073,"endTime":266.008,"body":"it's tooling, whatever it is that"},{"startTime":263.073,"endTime":266.008,"body":"they need, training or whatever it is."},{"startTime":266.425,"endTime":269.06,"body":"and don't be afraid to level at."},{"startTime":269.777,"endTime":273.56,"body":"Leadership there, the C level"},{"startTime":269.777,"endTime":273.56,"body":"leadership, the need to coach them."},{"startTime":273.638,"endTime":273.716,"body":"Mm-hmm."},{"startTime":273.925,"endTime":274.108,"body":". Right."},{"startTime":274.238,"endTime":276.142,"body":"I need commitment from you."},{"startTime":276.221,"endTime":276.403,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":276.56,"endTime":277.029,"body":"Mr."},{"startTime":277.082,"endTime":279.064,"body":"C level or miss C level."},{"startTime":279.247,"endTime":279.612,"body":"Right."},{"startTime":279.69,"endTime":282.534,"body":"And, and that looks like this"},{"startTime":279.69,"endTime":282.534,"body":"every week we'll meet every"},{"startTime":282.534,"endTime":283.629,"body":"two weeks, whatever it is."},{"startTime":284.021,"endTime":285.377,"body":"That's part and parcel of your vision."},{"startTime":285.377,"endTime":285.429,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":285.482,"endTime":288.638,"body":"That you will transform also the"},{"startTime":285.482,"endTime":288.638,"body":"leadership, not just the teams."},{"startTime":288.664,"endTime":288.873,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":289.029,"endTime":292.96,"body":"Well it's, you're transforming"},{"startTime":289.029,"endTime":292.96,"body":"the process by which."},{"startTime":293.338,"endTime":297.277,"body":"People work with one another That So your"},{"startTime":293.338,"endTime":297.277,"body":"pro, if I'm gonna take this, like you"},{"startTime":297.277,"endTime":300.46,"body":"brought up product coach, I, I almost"},{"startTime":297.277,"endTime":300.46,"body":"was not gonna bring up product coaching"},{"startTime":300.903,"endTime":304.79,"body":"in the, in the conversation here today,"},{"startTime":300.903,"endTime":304.79,"body":"but I'm glad you brought it up because"},{"startTime":304.79,"endTime":309.695,"body":"it got me thinking that the process that"},{"startTime":304.79,"endTime":309.695,"body":"is developed by the Agile coach slash"},{"startTime":309.699,"endTime":310.816,"body":"ScrumMaster, whatever you wanna call it,"},{"startTime":311.112,"endTime":314.138,"body":"The process that's"},{"startTime":311.112,"endTime":314.138,"body":"developed is like a product."},{"startTime":314.725,"endTime":317.49,"body":", it is like a product, meaning it has"},{"startTime":314.725,"endTime":317.49,"body":"like, there are things you can measure"},{"startTime":318.673,"endTime":319.716,"body":"there are things you can measure."},{"startTime":319.716,"endTime":320.812,"body":"There are things you can try."},{"startTime":320.963,"endTime":321.902,"body":". , but both of those"},{"startTime":321.963,"endTime":324.545,"body":"like you just rolled us to our next"},{"startTime":321.963,"endTime":324.545,"body":"category, whether you know it or not."},{"startTime":324.806,"endTime":327.493,"body":"Like the next category is courage."},{"startTime":328.38,"endTime":329.876,"body":"Uh, in the position."},{"startTime":329.88,"endTime":330.337,"body":"Like I think of,"},{"startTime":331.015,"endTime":334.319,"body":"and the reason I this segue so"},{"startTime":331.015,"endTime":334.319,"body":"well is because the product people"},{"startTime":334.345,"endTime":337.137,"body":"have courage when they're saying,"},{"startTime":334.345,"endTime":337.137,"body":"Hey, why don't we try this?"},{"startTime":337.18,"endTime":339.241,"body":"The product people are assuming some"},{"startTime":337.18,"endTime":339.241,"body":"level of risk when they're saying, Hey,"},{"startTime":339.241,"endTime":341.954,"body":"we should try this other path, or we"},{"startTime":339.241,"endTime":341.954,"body":"should try to experiment with this, or"},{"startTime":341.954,"endTime":344.171,"body":"we should try to put some money into"},{"startTime":341.954,"endTime":344.171,"body":"whatever to see where it works out."},{"startTime":344.641,"endTime":348.632,"body":"The process people, meaning the scrum"},{"startTime":344.641,"endTime":348.632,"body":"master here is going on the same road"},{"startTime":349.337,"endTime":354.102,"body":"except I, I kind of would argue their"},{"startTime":349.337,"endTime":354.102,"body":"product of the internal process."},{"startTime":354.467,"endTime":357.624,"body":"Like the company, unlike a product"},{"startTime":354.467,"endTime":357.624,"body":"where you're trying, where like you need"},{"startTime":357.624,"endTime":360.545,"body":"external people outside the organization"},{"startTime":357.624,"endTime":360.545,"body":"to buy it and to buy onto it and whatever."},{"startTime":360.545,"endTime":361.719,"body":"You need to find that"},{"startTime":360.545,"endTime":361.719,"body":"problem to seek it out."},{"startTime":362.198,"endTime":365.015,"body":"like the process, it change, it costs"},{"startTime":362.198,"endTime":365.015,"body":"you nothing to change the process."},{"startTime":365.484,"endTime":368.302,"body":"I mean, it costs you cuz if you go down"},{"startTime":365.484,"endTime":368.302,"body":"the wrong road or whatever costs you"},{"startTime":368.745,"endTime":371.641,"body":"productivity of your time or whatever,"},{"startTime":368.745,"endTime":371.641,"body":"sure there's that, but I'm talking"},{"startTime":371.641,"endTime":375.067,"body":"like you don't need to spend actual"},{"startTime":371.641,"endTime":375.067,"body":"dollars where , again, if you're running"},{"startTime":375.067,"endTime":378.511,"body":"with the cost-based financial model,"},{"startTime":375.067,"endTime":378.511,"body":"all this stuff is invisible anyway."},{"startTime":379.058,"endTime":381.632,"body":"It truly is zero, but uh, it's funny."},{"startTime":381.632,"endTime":382.806,"body":"Money . Yeah, it's, yeah."},{"startTime":382.937,"endTime":387.232,"body":"But, having the courage to say, Hey,"},{"startTime":382.937,"endTime":387.232,"body":"let's try a change to the process."},{"startTime":387.284,"endTime":390.024,"body":"And then when you're saying a change"},{"startTime":387.284,"endTime":390.024,"body":"to the process, you're saying a"},{"startTime":390.028,"endTime":393.284,"body":"change, not just to one specific"},{"startTime":390.028,"endTime":393.284,"body":"team or whatever, cuz you know, the,"},{"startTime":393.702,"endTime":396.311,"body":"you can't make an improvement to"},{"startTime":393.702,"endTime":396.311,"body":"one little part of the ecosystem."},{"startTime":397.537,"endTime":400.615,"body":"You know, you ba you basically, like"},{"startTime":397.537,"endTime":400.615,"body":"you, you have to improve the bottlenecks."},{"startTime":400.615,"endTime":401.763,"body":"Like it's a whole"},{"startTime":400.615,"endTime":401.763,"body":"throughput type of thing."},{"startTime":401.763,"endTime":403.615,"body":"You have to improve the bottlenecks"},{"startTime":401.763,"endTime":403.615,"body":"in order to make an actual difference"},{"startTime":403.615,"endTime":404.345,"body":"in the whole system, right?"},{"startTime":404.345,"endTime":406.824,"body":"So you have to, you have, you have to"},{"startTime":404.345,"endTime":406.824,"body":"have a systems thinking of the whole"},{"startTime":406.824,"endTime":411.311,"body":"process across the whole organization,"},{"startTime":406.824,"endTime":411.311,"body":"like down at the team level where maybe"},{"startTime":411.315,"endTime":414.406,"body":"you are parked as a scrum master, but"},{"startTime":411.315,"endTime":414.406,"body":"again, all the way up to the business"},{"startTime":414.411,"endTime":417.128,"body":"intake level or the, the highest levels"},{"startTime":414.411,"endTime":417.128,"body":"of the business, if that's the C level,"},{"startTime":417.432,"endTime":418.458,"body":"whatever whatever your business segment."},{"startTime":418.871,"endTime":423.75,"body":"In order to lobby for and pitch those"},{"startTime":418.871,"endTime":423.75,"body":"improvements or even attempts at"},{"startTime":423.754,"endTime":426.463,"body":"improvements or even getting everyone"},{"startTime":423.754,"endTime":426.463,"body":"together to agree that there are problems."},{"startTime":426.958,"endTime":427.698,"body":"Absolutely."},{"startTime":427.698,"endTime":430.028,"body":"Um, that's, that's the, that's courage."},{"startTime":430.089,"endTime":430.35,"body":"here."},{"startTime":430.35,"endTime":432.463,"body":"That's a, that's a value principle."},{"startTime":432.515,"endTime":432.906,"body":"Value."},{"startTime":432.906,"endTime":434.654,"body":"It's . I don't remember."},{"startTime":435.098,"endTime":436.011,"body":"It's a value."},{"startTime":436.054,"endTime":437.645,"body":"now look with courage, right?"},{"startTime":438.141,"endTime":440.384,"body":"Any change you wanna"},{"startTime":438.141,"endTime":440.384,"body":"make requires courage."},{"startTime":440.593,"endTime":443.045,"body":"The hardest thing in the world is"},{"startTime":440.593,"endTime":443.045,"body":"to go into an organization, whe"},{"startTime":443.05,"endTime":445.393,"body":"whether you're at the team level or"},{"startTime":443.05,"endTime":445.393,"body":"at the higher level, doesn't matter."},{"startTime":445.732,"endTime":448.524,"body":"And go in and say, see all this"},{"startTime":445.732,"endTime":448.524,"body":"stuff that you've been doing?"},{"startTime":449.345,"endTime":449.711,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":449.711,"endTime":450.65,"body":"It's not working for you."},{"startTime":450.858,"endTime":451.171,"body":"Right?"},{"startTime":451.176,"endTime":451.293,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":451.398,"endTime":455.141,"body":"and here's my suggestion of how"},{"startTime":451.398,"endTime":455.141,"body":"you work, that takes courage."},{"startTime":455.402,"endTime":458.037,"body":"That, because you have to"},{"startTime":455.402,"endTime":458.037,"body":"convince people that they have"},{"startTime":458.037,"endTime":459.237,"body":"a problem to your point, right?"},{"startTime":459.315,"endTime":463.176,"body":"And then you have to convince"},{"startTime":459.315,"endTime":463.176,"body":"people that you have an alternate"},{"startTime":463.489,"endTime":465.602,"body":"that might be more viable, right?"},{"startTime":465.941,"endTime":468.315,"body":"So if you come in and say"},{"startTime":465.941,"endTime":468.315,"body":"well your practices are wrong."},{"startTime":468.315,"endTime":471.106,"body":"Here's a set of practices"},{"startTime":468.315,"endTime":471.106,"body":"you need to follow day one."},{"startTime":471.158,"endTime":474.198,"body":"Like, just go in and say, Even,"},{"startTime":471.158,"endTime":474.198,"body":"even if you believe those are the"},{"startTime":474.58,"endTime":478.398,"body":"practices they need to follow, the"},{"startTime":474.58,"endTime":478.398,"body":"chances of success are fairly slim."},{"startTime":478.58,"endTime":479.911,"body":"because it's too much too soon."},{"startTime":480.458,"endTime":484.111,"body":"So you need to figure out what is"},{"startTime":480.458,"endTime":484.111,"body":"their appetite for change, right?"},{"startTime":484.606,"endTime":486.484,"body":"What is the, what is the burning need?"},{"startTime":487.554,"endTime":490.319,"body":"And then tackle that in an order, right?"},{"startTime":490.345,"endTime":490.502,"body":"Mm-hmm."},{"startTime":490.711,"endTime":495.771,"body":". So it's not necessarily even where"},{"startTime":490.711,"endTime":495.771,"body":"you get the maximum return on"},{"startTime":495.824,"endTime":496.945,"body":"those changes that you don't just."},{"startTime":497.48,"endTime":501.054,"body":"We're gonna do A, B, C, because A"},{"startTime":497.48,"endTime":501.054,"body":"gives you the maximum impact, right."},{"startTime":501.158,"endTime":503.245,"body":"It's perceived impact."},{"startTime":503.271,"endTime":503.48,"body":"Right?"},{"startTime":503.532,"endTime":503.845,"body":"Right."},{"startTime":504.002,"endTime":504.889,"body":"Even if it's small."},{"startTime":505.306,"endTime":508.28,"body":"But if it's perceived as, as"},{"startTime":505.306,"endTime":508.28,"body":"you being the change leader,"},{"startTime":508.306,"endTime":511.793,"body":"you're coming in and recommending"},{"startTime":508.306,"endTime":511.793,"body":"practices that other people notice."},{"startTime":512.78,"endTime":513.563,"body":"that's worth it."},{"startTime":513.615,"endTime":516.093,"body":"That's even though you're not"},{"startTime":513.615,"endTime":516.093,"body":"getting the maximum benefit out"},{"startTime":516.093,"endTime":518.467,"body":"of that specific change, maybe"},{"startTime":516.093,"endTime":518.467,"body":"it's another change later on."},{"startTime":518.545,"endTime":518.754,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":518.858,"endTime":520.589,"body":"But that paves the way the initial work."},{"startTime":520.693,"endTime":520.771,"body":"Mm-hmm."},{"startTime":520.98,"endTime":522.519,"body":"paves the way for future changes."},{"startTime":522.728,"endTime":524.137,"body":"So you gotta figure all this stuff out."},{"startTime":524.163,"endTime":524.241,"body":"Mm-hmm."},{"startTime":524.454,"endTime":524.554,"body":"right."},{"startTime":524.554,"endTime":528.363,"body":"And, and then go in and say, here's"},{"startTime":524.554,"endTime":528.363,"body":"the vision, but in order to get"},{"startTime":528.363,"endTime":530.424,"body":"there, we're gonna try this first."},{"startTime":530.528,"endTime":531.024,"body":"Right, right."},{"startTime":531.206,"endTime":533.424,"body":"And, and the focus really"},{"startTime":531.206,"endTime":533.424,"body":"should not be do it."},{"startTime":534.215,"endTime":535.411,"body":"Go in and dictate that."},{"startTime":535.515,"endTime":535.671,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":535.75,"endTime":537.211,"body":"So you have a credibility"},{"startTime":535.75,"endTime":537.211,"body":"issue right away."},{"startTime":537.211,"endTime":540.171,"body":"People are gonna say, I've worked here"},{"startTime":537.211,"endTime":540.171,"body":"for eight years or 30 years or whatever."},{"startTime":540.25,"endTime":540.328,"body":"Mm-hmm."},{"startTime":540.637,"endTime":542.671,"body":"And you come in and you,"},{"startTime":540.637,"endTime":542.671,"body":"you tell me you know better."},{"startTime":542.732,"endTime":544.48,"body":"and, and it doesn't matter"},{"startTime":542.732,"endTime":544.48,"body":"whether you have a resume"},{"startTime":544.48,"endTime":546.324,"body":"that's need a mile long, right."},{"startTime":546.637,"endTime":547.341,"body":"Of where you've worked."},{"startTime":547.758,"endTime":548.411,"body":"The thing to do is."},{"startTime":548.611,"endTime":550.254,"body":"Get them to own the change."},{"startTime":550.254,"endTime":552.315,"body":"It's not your change, it's their change."},{"startTime":552.393,"endTime":553.619,"body":"So get them to own it."},{"startTime":553.619,"endTime":553.828,"body":"Mm-hmm."},{"startTime":553.898,"endTime":555.445,"body":"and get them to own it"},{"startTime":553.898,"endTime":555.445,"body":"for the right reason."},{"startTime":555.576,"endTime":557.011,"body":"Show them that there is a pain."},{"startTime":557.063,"endTime":561.393,"body":"Show them that uh, you have"},{"startTime":557.063,"endTime":561.393,"body":"just one alternate way of"},{"startTime":561.398,"endTime":562.88,"body":"working, not the only way."},{"startTime":563.324,"endTime":565.437,"body":"If they have another way,"},{"startTime":563.324,"endTime":565.437,"body":"your own ears listen to them."},{"startTime":566.167,"endTime":568.228,"body":"And if they come up"},{"startTime":566.167,"endTime":568.228,"body":"with a better solution."},{"startTime":568.863,"endTime":570.324,"body":"Then go ahead and say, let's do that."},{"startTime":570.35,"endTime":570.558,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":570.637,"endTime":573.115,"body":"But I mentioned the word"},{"startTime":570.637,"endTime":573.115,"body":"earlier, try, right?"},{"startTime":573.167,"endTime":575.958,"body":"So frame everything as an experiment."},{"startTime":575.958,"endTime":578.384,"body":"Just say, if we do this,"},{"startTime":575.958,"endTime":578.384,"body":"here's what should happen."},{"startTime":578.437,"endTime":578.515,"body":"Mm-hmm."},{"startTime":578.728,"endTime":581.098,"body":"and, and let's just do this for a"},{"startTime":578.728,"endTime":581.098,"body":"couple of weeks or a month or whatever,"},{"startTime":581.463,"endTime":583.367,"body":"and we'll regroup and evaluate."},{"startTime":583.498,"endTime":587.202,"body":"And if we're seeing things moved in the"},{"startTime":583.498,"endTime":587.202,"body":"right direction, we'll continue that."},{"startTime":587.254,"endTime":590.098,"body":"Or if we're not, I'm happy"},{"startTime":587.254,"endTime":590.098,"body":"to just stop at that."},{"startTime":590.815,"endTime":593.371,"body":"And maybe we will come up with"},{"startTime":590.815,"endTime":593.371,"body":"a, a better way collectively."},{"startTime":593.398,"endTime":593.476,"body":"Mm-hmm."},{"startTime":593.684,"endTime":593.919,"body":". Right?"},{"startTime":593.919,"endTime":596.998,"body":"So courage is central to all of this."},{"startTime":597.154,"endTime":600.05,"body":"You have to have the courage"},{"startTime":597.154,"endTime":600.05,"body":"to talk to the C- level folks"},{"startTime":600.05,"endTime":601.145,"body":"and ask for what you need."},{"startTime":601.511,"endTime":604.85,"body":"You have to have the courage to"},{"startTime":601.511,"endTime":604.85,"body":"talk to the teams and convince them"},{"startTime":604.854,"endTime":607.25,"body":"they have a problem, and then they"},{"startTime":604.854,"endTime":607.25,"body":"should try something that you're"},{"startTime":607.254,"endTime":608.714,"body":"suggesting as an improvement technique."},{"startTime":609.227,"endTime":612.201,"body":"Um, but all along be be open and"},{"startTime":609.227,"endTime":612.201,"body":"say what do you think we should do?"},{"startTime":612.201,"endTime":612.592,"body":"Mm-hmm."},{"startTime":612.758,"endTime":612.966,"body":", right?"},{"startTime":612.966,"endTime":614.027,"body":"Have you tried this?"},{"startTime":614.366,"endTime":615.41,"body":"They say, no, we haven't."},{"startTime":615.54,"endTime":617.236,"body":"Can we try that and see"},{"startTime":615.54,"endTime":617.236,"body":"how it works for us?"},{"startTime":617.236,"endTime":617.418,"body":"Right."},{"startTime":617.444,"endTime":617.731,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":618.749,"endTime":618.984,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":618.988,"endTime":622.071,"body":"Like the more that I'm listening the"},{"startTime":618.988,"endTime":622.071,"body":"more that I'm thinking that You like"},{"startTime":622.123,"endTime":626.966,"body":"the product mindset is at play here"},{"startTime":622.123,"endTime":626.966,"body":"in the Azure Coach slash ScrumMaster"},{"startTime":626.966,"endTime":629.575,"body":"saying, Hey, how, like when you're"},{"startTime":626.966,"endTime":629.575,"body":"saying, Hey, have we tried this?"},{"startTime":629.579,"endTime":630.358,"body":"Hey, have, have we tried that?"},{"startTime":630.436,"endTime":632.444,"body":"I mean, really what you're doing"},{"startTime":630.436,"endTime":632.444,"body":"is you're employing a business"},{"startTime":632.444,"endTime":634.688,"body":"analysis method of mapping out."},{"startTime":635.492,"endTime":637.284,"body":"The, the border of the problem."},{"startTime":637.466,"endTime":637.858,"body":"Yes."},{"startTime":637.962,"endTime":641.092,"body":"Sh Tell me what you've tried to"},{"startTime":637.962,"endTime":641.092,"body":"solve the problem with, or tell,"},{"startTime":641.118,"endTime":644.014,"body":"tell me with what methods you've"},{"startTime":641.118,"endTime":644.014,"body":"tried to solve the problem before."},{"startTime":644.144,"endTime":646.458,"body":"So you're kind of mapping the the"},{"startTime":644.144,"endTime":646.458,"body":"edges, you're trying to find the"},{"startTime":646.462,"endTime":649.744,"body":"edges of the puzzle so that you"},{"startTime":646.462,"endTime":649.744,"body":"can kind of construct the solution."},{"startTime":649.744,"endTime":650.684,"body":"I mean, you, you're not the only one."},{"startTime":650.684,"endTime":652.092,"body":"You're not, you're not"},{"startTime":650.684,"endTime":652.092,"body":"trying to do it by yourself."},{"startTime":652.092,"endTime":652.144,"body":"No."},{"startTime":652.188,"endTime":655.579,"body":"Because solving organizational"},{"startTime":652.188,"endTime":655.579,"body":"problems is not a one person."},{"startTime":656.288,"endTime":658.01,"body":"It's gonna require everyone,"},{"startTime":656.288,"endTime":658.01,"body":"you know what I mean?"},{"startTime":658.166,"endTime":660.279,"body":"The teams are the only people that are"},{"startTime":658.166,"endTime":660.279,"body":"gonna be able to solve their own problems."},{"startTime":660.41,"endTime":660.618,"body":"Right."},{"startTime":661.036,"endTime":664.018,"body":"Given however you, you're"},{"startTime":661.036,"endTime":664.018,"body":"the one prompting them to"},{"startTime":664.018,"endTime":664.931,"body":"put that puzzle together."},{"startTime":665.479,"endTime":665.871,"body":"That's correct."},{"startTime":665.897,"endTime":666.105,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":666.105,"endTime":668.488,"body":"And, and don't don't think you"},{"startTime":666.105,"endTime":668.488,"body":"have the solution necessarily,"},{"startTime":668.488,"endTime":669.949,"body":"or, or potential solution."},{"startTime":670.21,"endTime":673.471,"body":"Sometimes the best solutions come"},{"startTime":670.21,"endTime":673.471,"body":"from the teams, so just ask them,"},{"startTime":673.836,"endTime":676.34,"body":"pose the problem and say, how"},{"startTime":673.836,"endTime":676.34,"body":"do you think we should solve it?"},{"startTime":676.392,"endTime":676.601,"body":"Right."},{"startTime":676.679,"endTime":680.94,"body":"If they come up, , a few suggestions"},{"startTime":676.679,"endTime":680.94,"body":"that either you don't believe will"},{"startTime":680.94,"endTime":683.262,"body":"work, or they've tried and didn't"},{"startTime":680.94,"endTime":683.262,"body":"work or whatever, or they don't"},{"startTime":683.262,"endTime":686.549,"body":"come up with any, then feel free to"},{"startTime":683.262,"endTime":686.549,"body":"suggest something, but ask permission."},{"startTime":686.553,"endTime":690.801,"body":"This is that one of those things that you,"},{"startTime":686.553,"endTime":690.801,"body":"you'll see coaches do, they'll say, do"},{"startTime":690.801,"endTime":692.418,"body":"you mind if I make a suggestion, right?"},{"startTime":692.444,"endTime":692.523,"body":"Mm-hmm."},{"startTime":693.044,"endTime":694.114,"body":". Um, why do you do that?"},{"startTime":694.14,"endTime":696.097,"body":"I mean, you've already been"},{"startTime":694.14,"endTime":696.097,"body":"hired as an agile coach."},{"startTime":696.201,"endTime":699.323,"body":"Why don't you just go in with arms"},{"startTime":696.201,"endTime":699.323,"body":"flailing and say, do this right now."},{"startTime":699.323,"endTime":699.836,"body":"You don't do that."},{"startTime":700.801,"endTime":702.523,"body":"It's building, it's building trust."},{"startTime":702.758,"endTime":703.071,"body":"Right?"},{"startTime":703.227,"endTime":706.088,"body":"You're trusting them to own the solution."},{"startTime":706.092,"endTime":708.21,"body":"When you say, what do"},{"startTime":706.092,"endTime":708.21,"body":"you think we should do?"},{"startTime":708.314,"endTime":709.775,"body":"What have you tried, right?"},{"startTime":710.271,"endTime":711.21,"body":"Can we try this?"},{"startTime":711.392,"endTime":712.514,"body":"May I suggest something?"},{"startTime":712.775,"endTime":713.088,"body":"Right?"},{"startTime":713.14,"endTime":715.671,"body":"And if they say yes, it"},{"startTime":713.14,"endTime":715.671,"body":"means they're open to your."},{"startTime":716.258,"endTime":716.675,"body":"input."},{"startTime":716.727,"endTime":719.884,"body":"If they're open to your input, they're"},{"startTime":716.727,"endTime":719.884,"body":"gonna value what you have to say."},{"startTime":719.936,"endTime":722.362,"body":"Otherwise they're gonna say, well,"},{"startTime":719.936,"endTime":722.362,"body":"here, here comes a so-called expert."},{"startTime":722.414,"endTime":722.492,"body":"Mm-hmm."},{"startTime":722.962,"endTime":724.371,"body":"last three didn't last."},{"startTime":724.371,"endTime":724.918,"body":"Right."},{"startTime":724.971,"endTime":726.301,"body":"Uh, why should this one be any different?"},{"startTime":726.797,"endTime":727.684,"body":"So, p yeah."},{"startTime":727.71,"endTime":731.701,"body":"Be upfront, ask permission, and"},{"startTime":727.71,"endTime":731.701,"body":"then go in with something small."},{"startTime":732.144,"endTime":734.544,"body":"Treat it as an experiment"},{"startTime":732.144,"endTime":734.544,"body":"and monitor that."},{"startTime":734.544,"endTime":734.675,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":734.675,"endTime":735.753,"body":"In constantly"},{"startTime":737.753,"endTime":741.101,"body":"The thing in this category of courage"},{"startTime":737.753,"endTime":741.101,"body":"that that can't be underestimated is"},{"startTime":741.101,"endTime":743.24,"body":"asking for things from your leadership."},{"startTime":743.631,"endTime":746.971,"body":"Like, very rarely, like there's a pe"},{"startTime":743.631,"endTime":746.971,"body":"People will occasionally say like, you"},{"startTime":746.971,"endTime":751.31,"body":"need to you are gonna be managed by your"},{"startTime":746.971,"endTime":751.31,"body":"manager, but you also need to manage up."},{"startTime":751.936,"endTime":756.197,"body":"Manage up is not something I have heard"},{"startTime":751.936,"endTime":756.197,"body":"in the Agile community very often."},{"startTime":756.562,"endTime":757.736,"body":"The idea that like you."},{"startTime":758.544,"endTime":762.823,"body":"To keep your manager on track and"},{"startTime":758.544,"endTime":762.823,"body":"I haven't heard that very often."},{"startTime":762.823,"endTime":764.753,"body":"Like I, I put that into"},{"startTime":762.823,"endTime":764.753,"body":"this category as well."},{"startTime":764.753,"endTime":767.466,"body":"This, this courage category,"},{"startTime":764.753,"endTime":767.466,"body":"it does take courage."},{"startTime":767.466,"endTime":772.566,"body":"I mean, you see some agile coaches, the"},{"startTime":767.466,"endTime":772.566,"body":"just say, We can't really manage them."},{"startTime":772.566,"endTime":772.749,"body":"Right?"},{"startTime":772.775,"endTime":773.01,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":773.062,"endTime":774.366,"body":"They, you, they're the ones that hired us."},{"startTime":774.392,"endTime":774.549,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":774.758,"endTime":775.305,"body":"Precisely."},{"startTime":775.305,"endTime":779.531,"body":"Why you need to manage them because they"},{"startTime":775.305,"endTime":779.531,"body":"have different notions of what success is."},{"startTime":779.536,"endTime":779.758,"body":"Mm-hmm."},{"startTime":779.827,"endTime":779.897,"body":", right?"},{"startTime":779.897,"endTime":780.071,"body":"Mm-hmm."},{"startTime":780.323,"endTime":783.031,"body":"and they're bringing you in to"},{"startTime":780.323,"endTime":783.031,"body":"validate their notions and feel free"},{"startTime":783.036,"endTime":786.266,"body":"to knock them down, but do it in"},{"startTime":783.036,"endTime":786.266,"body":"a way that you know is palatable."},{"startTime":786.266,"endTime":786.475,"body":"Right."},{"startTime":786.479,"endTime":787.179,"body":"It makes sense."},{"startTime":787.242,"endTime":789.511,"body":"that's an interesting one too,"},{"startTime":787.242,"endTime":789.511,"body":"because I've seen quite a few scrum"},{"startTime":789.511,"endTime":792.72,"body":"master that are unwilling to question"},{"startTime":789.511,"endTime":792.72,"body":"the people that own the budgets."},{"startTime":792.72,"endTime":794.937,"body":"To the people that hired the,"},{"startTime":792.72,"endTime":794.937,"body":"like contract scrum master there."},{"startTime":795.25,"endTime":797.789,"body":"They're not willing to question"},{"startTime":795.25,"endTime":797.789,"body":"the people that hired them."},{"startTime":798.263,"endTime":802.02,"body":"Basically, or maintain their contract if"},{"startTime":798.263,"endTime":802.02,"body":"they're contractors, that kind of stuff."},{"startTime":802.359,"endTime":804.498,"body":"Uh, and that's a, a failing of courage."},{"startTime":804.498,"endTime":806.402,"body":"Like these people brought you"},{"startTime":804.498,"endTime":806.402,"body":"on because you're the expert."},{"startTime":806.402,"endTime":811.42,"body":"They believe that they believe or believed"},{"startTime":806.402,"endTime":811.42,"body":"Ed, past tense that you or the person that"},{"startTime":811.42,"endTime":813.924,"body":"could improve their program or that you"},{"startTime":811.42,"endTime":813.924,"body":"could make a breakthrough were all the"},{"startTime":813.924,"endTime":815.95,"body":"rest of the people in that spot didn't."},{"startTime":816.368,"endTime":819.707,"body":"And, and you may very well find either"},{"startTime":816.368,"endTime":819.707,"body":"like they are the problem or leadership"},{"startTime":819.707,"endTime":820.924,"body":"is a problem, or somebody someone."},{"startTime":821.285,"endTime":824.789,"body":"Team level, not not, not who, someone"},{"startTime":821.285,"endTime":824.789,"body":"who is not your peer basically"},{"startTime":824.789,"endTime":826.433,"body":"in the organization is the issue."},{"startTime":827.268,"endTime":827.868,"body":"You're absolutely right."},{"startTime":827.868,"endTime":830.946,"body":"I see all too often, lots of Scrum"},{"startTime":827.868,"endTime":830.946,"body":"ambassadors just checking the boxes."},{"startTime":830.946,"endTime":831.463,"body":"Hey I'm."},{"startTime":831.872,"endTime":836.124,"body":"Facilitating this daily standup and do"},{"startTime":831.872,"endTime":836.124,"body":"it and facilitating the review or mm-hmm."},{"startTime":836.194,"endTime":836.707,"body":"or the retro."},{"startTime":836.707,"endTime":837.15,"body":"And that's it."},{"startTime":837.15,"endTime":837.646,"body":"That's all I do."},{"startTime":837.832,"endTime":839.997,"body":"this segues into a couple"},{"startTime":837.832,"endTime":839.997,"body":"different categories."},{"startTime":840.045,"endTime":840.906,"body":"In a different podcast."},{"startTime":840.906,"endTime":844.193,"body":"I, I brought up a concept that"},{"startTime":840.906,"endTime":844.193,"body":"like, I just barely touched"},{"startTime":844.193,"endTime":844.932,"body":"on it, and then we move."},{"startTime":845.171,"endTime":849.067,"body":"We didn't really talk about it very long,"},{"startTime":845.171,"endTime":849.067,"body":"where I was like, as the process person"},{"startTime":850.189,"endTime":854.91,"body":"and the person that is charged by the"},{"startTime":850.189,"endTime":854.91,"body":"teams with stakeholder communication,"},{"startTime":854.937,"endTime":858.563,"body":"like radiating the message out from"},{"startTime":854.937,"endTime":858.563,"body":"the teams and helping the teams better"},{"startTime":858.797,"endTime":861.276,"body":"help the organization understand what"},{"startTime":858.797,"endTime":861.276,"body":"they're working on, what the priorities"},{"startTime":861.28,"endTime":862.528,"body":"are, what's next, that kind of stuff."},{"startTime":863.376,"endTime":864.993,"body":"I was like, you need to"},{"startTime":863.376,"endTime":864.993,"body":"communicate like a doctor."},{"startTime":864.993,"endTime":866.663,"body":"Like if you ever go to a"},{"startTime":864.993,"endTime":866.663,"body":"doctor's visit and doctor's"},{"startTime":866.663,"endTime":867.889,"body":"like, oh, you hurt your arm home."},{"startTime":867.889,"endTime":868.645,"body":"I'm gonna touch your arm now."},{"startTime":868.645,"endTime":869.115,"body":"Is that okay?"},{"startTime":869.141,"endTime":869.428,"body":"Okay."},{"startTime":869.428,"endTime":870.941,"body":"How does that, does it"},{"startTime":869.428,"endTime":870.941,"body":"hurt when I go like this?"},{"startTime":870.941,"endTime":871.228,"body":"Does it hurt?"},{"startTime":871.228,"endTime":871.802,"body":"Like I go like this."},{"startTime":871.802,"endTime":872.48,"body":"What about whatever?"},{"startTime":872.558,"endTime":875.719,"body":"And like every they're basically narrating"},{"startTime":872.558,"endTime":875.719,"body":"their actions every step along the way."},{"startTime":876.058,"endTime":878.876,"body":"This is what I'm talking about, only"},{"startTime":876.058,"endTime":878.876,"body":"the scrum master or agile coach,"},{"startTime":878.928,"endTime":880.884,"body":"equivalent thereof, everybody they go to."},{"startTime":880.884,"endTime":881.432,"body":"That's a great analogy."},{"startTime":881.432,"endTime":883.128,"body":"I love that analogy because you're right."},{"startTime":883.18,"endTime":884.824,"body":"I mean that, that's exactly"},{"startTime":883.18,"endTime":884.824,"body":"what happens, right?"},{"startTime":885.241,"endTime":886.363,"body":"Um, the, the."},{"startTime":887.484,"endTime":892.632,"body":", the other party in this example, it's"},{"startTime":887.484,"endTime":892.632,"body":"the patient it isn't simply told things."},{"startTime":892.632,"endTime":892.71,"body":"Mm-hmm."},{"startTime":892.919,"endTime":894.38,"body":"because they're not gonna"},{"startTime":892.919,"endTime":894.38,"body":"receive things very well."},{"startTime":894.641,"endTime":894.719,"body":"Right."},{"startTime":894.745,"endTime":896.702,"body":"So the doctor makes sure"},{"startTime":894.745,"endTime":896.702,"body":"that they communicate well"},{"startTime":897.128,"endTime":898.271,"body":"including the reasons why."},{"startTime":898.324,"endTime":900.437,"body":"You know, I'm going to raise"},{"startTime":898.324,"endTime":900.437,"body":"your arm above your head to see"},{"startTime":900.437,"endTime":901.715,"body":"if that makes the pain worse."},{"startTime":901.767,"endTime":901.776,"body":"Mm-hmm."},{"startTime":902.263,"endTime":904.48,"body":". That's why they're doing that, not"},{"startTime":902.263,"endTime":904.48,"body":"just doing that for the heck of it."},{"startTime":904.532,"endTime":904.819,"body":"Right."},{"startTime":905.028,"endTime":905.915,"body":"So it's the same thing."},{"startTime":905.915,"endTime":906.463,"body":"Yeah, I agree."},{"startTime":906.463,"endTime":909.68,"body":"I think that's, that's a critical skillset"},{"startTime":906.463,"endTime":909.68,"body":"with Scrum Masters and Agile coaches."},{"startTime":909.732,"endTime":909.889,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":909.889,"endTime":912.863,"body":"The, the funny thing about a doctor"},{"startTime":909.889,"endTime":912.863,"body":"is like, you don't really realize"},{"startTime":912.863,"endTime":915.602,"body":"that they all do this until you"},{"startTime":912.863,"endTime":915.602,"body":"get one that doesn't do this well."},{"startTime":915.606,"endTime":919.006,"body":"And then you get your doctor with a bad"},{"startTime":915.606,"endTime":919.006,"body":"bedside manner , which is funny cuz like"},{"startTime":919.006,"endTime":922.606,"body":"the, the whole profession has attributed"},{"startTime":919.006,"endTime":922.606,"body":"these, this set of communication skills,"},{"startTime":923.337,"endTime":927.063,"body":"which that, that you or I might know"},{"startTime":923.337,"endTime":927.063,"body":"is like, it takes real work to get"},{"startTime":927.067,"endTime":930.645,"body":"your communication skills to the point"},{"startTime":927.067,"endTime":930.645,"body":"where like everyone in your career"},{"startTime":930.645,"endTime":934.384,"body":"field has kind of looked at the same"},{"startTime":930.645,"endTime":934.384,"body":"we're ba basically we're like a I guess"},{"startTime":934.384,"endTime":936.471,"body":"what I'm saying is it takes a lot of."},{"startTime":937.267,"endTime":940.293,"body":"To get to the point where just"},{"startTime":937.267,"endTime":940.293,"body":"outside observers look at your"},{"startTime":940.293,"endTime":943.424,"body":"positioning and they don't see anything"},{"startTime":940.293,"endTime":943.424,"body":"different from the last person."},{"startTime":943.606,"endTime":945.667,"body":"Cuz everyone's communication"},{"startTime":943.606,"endTime":945.667,"body":"skills are up to the same."},{"startTime":945.98,"endTime":947.415,"body":"They're all race at the same bar."},{"startTime":947.832,"endTime":951.771,"body":"I think of the Scrum Masters and Agile"},{"startTime":947.832,"endTime":951.771,"body":"coaches being the ones that have deep"},{"startTime":951.954,"endTime":954.38,"body":"connections with people throughout the"},{"startTime":951.954,"endTime":954.38,"body":"organizations because they're deploying"},{"startTime":954.38,"endTime":956.467,"body":"the, the, the tactic of one-on-ones."},{"startTime":956.754,"endTime":958.084,"body":"They're having a regular one-on-ones."},{"startTime":958.45,"endTime":961.763,"body":"With all of the key players and whatever"},{"startTime":958.45,"endTime":961.763,"body":"team members and stuff like that."},{"startTime":962.154,"endTime":964.606,"body":"But they're figuring out who to have"},{"startTime":962.154,"endTime":964.606,"body":"one-on-ones in the organization and"},{"startTime":964.606,"endTime":967.032,"body":"they're building influence along"},{"startTime":964.606,"endTime":967.032,"body":"the way and that kind of stuff"},{"startTime":967.163,"endTime":969.615,"body":"is invisible to everyone else."},{"startTime":969.797,"endTime":970.084,"body":"Right."},{"startTime":970.241,"endTime":973.032,"body":"Which is funny because it is, it's"},{"startTime":970.241,"endTime":973.032,"body":"just as invisible as the topic"},{"startTime":973.037,"endTime":976.084,"body":"I'm talking about now of, oh, the"},{"startTime":973.037,"endTime":976.084,"body":"doctor has good communication."},{"startTime":977.376,"endTime":977.845,"body":"Yeah, yeah."},{"startTime":977.871,"endTime":978.445,"body":"Completely agree."},{"startTime":978.445,"endTime":982.41,"body":"So when we do come across that odd"},{"startTime":978.445,"endTime":982.41,"body":"doctor who doesn't have good bedside"},{"startTime":982.41,"endTime":986.002,"body":"manner, that's equivalent to the scrum"},{"startTime":982.41,"endTime":986.002,"body":"master, simply checking the boxes, right?"},{"startTime":986.315,"endTime":989.68,"body":"If that doctor's gonna come"},{"startTime":986.315,"endTime":989.68,"body":"in, do a cursory examination."},{"startTime":990.032,"endTime":992.789,"body":"You know I mean, obviously other"},{"startTime":990.032,"endTime":992.789,"body":"than something that's really acute"},{"startTime":992.832,"endTime":994.919,"body":"if you're falling over with a heart"},{"startTime":992.832,"endTime":994.919,"body":"attack, that's a different thing."},{"startTime":994.919,"endTime":997.589,"body":"But and then they're just gonna"},{"startTime":994.919,"endTime":997.589,"body":"take your word for what you"},{"startTime":997.589,"endTime":998.763,"body":"say and say, here, here it is."},{"startTime":998.767,"endTime":998.776,"body":"Go."},{"startTime":998.893,"endTime":1000.067,"body":"You know, here's a, here's a script."},{"startTime":1000.197,"endTime":1002.624,"body":"Take two in the morning, call"},{"startTime":1000.197,"endTime":1002.624,"body":"me in the morning, take two."},{"startTime":1002.628,"endTime":1004.476,"body":"Now if it hurts more, take two more."},{"startTime":1004.737,"endTime":1005.154,"body":"That's it."},{"startTime":1005.258,"endTime":1009.65,"body":"Uh, I mean, so yeah, people are different,"},{"startTime":1005.258,"endTime":1009.65,"body":"but to your point,  in that profession,"},{"startTime":1009.65,"endTime":1013.641,"body":"medical profession pretty much most"},{"startTime":1009.65,"endTime":1013.641,"body":"doctors have the, those skills refined."},{"startTime":1013.667,"endTime":1013.745,"body":"Mm-hmm."},{"startTime":1014.319,"endTime":1016.98,"body":", that's why they call"},{"startTime":1014.319,"endTime":1016.98,"body":"that practicing medicine."},{"startTime":1016.98,"endTime":1021.702,"body":"They practice it and it's not just"},{"startTime":1016.98,"endTime":1021.702,"body":"book knowledge or technical skills."},{"startTime":1021.728,"endTime":1022.954,"body":"It's all of these things too."},{"startTime":1022.954,"endTime":1023.006,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":1023.658,"endTime":1023.893,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":1024.258,"endTime":1025.38,"body":"They actually get graded on that."},{"startTime":1025.589,"endTime":1029.241,"body":"I was gonna say, it's, it's, it's also"},{"startTime":1025.589,"endTime":1029.241,"body":"years of scrutiny as they go through their"},{"startTime":1029.302,"endTime":1030.71,"body":"training and, and all that kind of stuff."},{"startTime":1031.506,"endTime":1032.602,"body":"Yeah, through the process."},{"startTime":1032.706,"endTime":1033.124,"body":"Very true."},{"startTime":1033.593,"endTime":1033.958,"body":"Oh boy."},{"startTime":1033.958,"endTime":1038.063,"body":"Like we did, we just hit on a, a did we"},{"startTime":1033.958,"endTime":1038.063,"body":"just hit on an internet landmine of scrum"},{"startTime":1038.063,"endTime":1043.358,"body":"Masters having to go through some kind of"},{"startTime":1038.063,"endTime":1043.358,"body":"professional residency type of ? Oh, no."},{"startTime":1043.41,"endTime":1045.158,"body":"I'm not ready to be making"},{"startTime":1043.41,"endTime":1045.158,"body":"statements like that."},{"startTime":1045.324,"endTime":1048.602,"body":"although I will say  the whole"},{"startTime":1045.324,"endTime":1048.602,"body":"concept of the Scrum masters"},{"startTime":1049.132,"endTime":1051.267,"body":"or as coaches or, or whomever."},{"startTime":1051.528,"endTime":1053.041,"body":", I don't think that's a"},{"startTime":1051.528,"endTime":1053.041,"body":"correct way to use that."},{"startTime":1053.093,"endTime":1057.789,"body":"Uh,  the whole concept of them having"},{"startTime":1053.093,"endTime":1057.789,"body":"one-on-ones and building influence"},{"startTime":1057.789,"endTime":1061.354,"body":"in the organization uh, I have"},{"startTime":1057.789,"endTime":1061.354,"body":"never seen that built into a metric."},{"startTime":1061.915,"endTime":1063.697,"body":"like hey Om, it's the end of the year."},{"startTime":1063.854,"endTime":1068.489,"body":"We're judging you based on our corporate"},{"startTime":1063.854,"endTime":1068.489,"body":"metrics that you don't pay attention to."},{"startTime":1068.489,"endTime":1071.81,"body":"And then in the last in, in December"},{"startTime":1068.489,"endTime":1071.81,"body":"when you know that your yearly review is"},{"startTime":1071.81,"endTime":1076.402,"body":"coming up, you start scrambling to hit"},{"startTime":1071.81,"endTime":1076.402,"body":"your, check your boxes or whatever,  like"},{"startTime":1076.454,"endTime":1077.758,"body":"that, that kind of, you know what I mean?"},{"startTime":1077.758,"endTime":1079.767,"body":"That kind of like yearly"},{"startTime":1077.758,"endTime":1079.767,"body":"performance review kind of stuff."},{"startTime":1079.897,"endTime":1083.75,"body":"I, I don't think I've ever heard of anyone"},{"startTime":1079.897,"endTime":1083.75,"body":"saying you've had x number of one-on-one."},{"startTime":1084.402,"endTime":1084.897,"body":", you know what I mean?"},{"startTime":1085.002,"endTime":1088.471,"body":"The , that's primarily I, I, first"},{"startTime":1085.002,"endTime":1088.471,"body":"of all, I agree with that, but"},{"startTime":1088.471,"endTime":1092.567,"body":"primarily I think that's because these"},{"startTime":1088.471,"endTime":1092.567,"body":"kinds of techniques aren't really."},{"startTime":1092.958,"endTime":1094.315,"body":"Known all that well."},{"startTime":1094.341,"endTime":1094.419,"body":"Mm-hmm."},{"startTime":1094.632,"endTime":1095.776,"body":"in management."},{"startTime":1095.828,"endTime":1095.906,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":1095.932,"endTime":1097.028,"body":"Leadership, hopefully get it."},{"startTime":1097.315,"endTime":1100.037,"body":"Management don't they're not known"},{"startTime":1097.315,"endTime":1100.037,"body":"and they're not valued necessarily."},{"startTime":1100.037,"endTime":1101.889,"body":"You know, why do you"},{"startTime":1100.037,"endTime":1101.889,"body":"have to meet every week?"},{"startTime":1101.941,"endTime":1102.15,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":1102.176,"endTime":1102.489,"body":"Right."},{"startTime":1102.776,"endTime":1104.054,"body":"You know, let the person develop code."},{"startTime":1104.054,"endTime":1104.889,"body":"That's what we pay 'em for."},{"startTime":1105.28,"endTime":1110.35,"body":"Um, so yeah, I, I think an astute agile"},{"startTime":1105.28,"endTime":1110.35,"body":"coach or a scrum master knows what to do."},{"startTime":1110.35,"endTime":1110.697,"body":"Mm-hmm."},{"startTime":1110.771,"endTime":1111.567,"body":"and doesn't necess."},{"startTime":1112.415,"endTime":1113.458,"body":"Advertise they're doing that."},{"startTime":1113.954,"endTime":1114.189,"body":"Oh boy."},{"startTime":1114.197,"endTime":1117.145,"body":"You could even say like, your,"},{"startTime":1114.197,"endTime":1117.145,"body":"your segment of leadership in your"},{"startTime":1117.145,"endTime":1120.484,"body":"organization might even understand why"},{"startTime":1117.145,"endTime":1120.484,"body":"it's important to have these, but because"},{"startTime":1120.484,"endTime":1122.189,"body":"you're taking developers away from."},{"startTime":1122.676,"endTime":1125.128,"body":"Coding when you're having your"},{"startTime":1122.676,"endTime":1125.128,"body":"one on one taking your developers"},{"startTime":1125.128,"endTime":1126.797,"body":"away from being productive."},{"startTime":1126.98,"endTime":1130.137,"body":"Even your leadership might be"},{"startTime":1126.98,"endTime":1130.137,"body":"undermined by corporate level."},{"startTime":1130.141,"endTime":1130.902,"body":"Yeah, yeah."},{"startTime":1131.232,"endTime":1134.441,"body":"Metrics and goals and like the, the"},{"startTime":1131.232,"endTime":1134.441,"body":"manager director development might, might"},{"startTime":1134.441,"endTime":1137.771,"body":"be like, oh stop having so many one, Hey,"},{"startTime":1134.441,"endTime":1137.771,"body":"instead of having one-on-ones with my"},{"startTime":1137.771,"endTime":1141.18,"body":"people every other week whatever, once a,"},{"startTime":1137.771,"endTime":1141.18,"body":"once a sprint or whatever can you do that?"},{"startTime":1141.497,"endTime":1144.967,"body":"Once a quarter, because I mean,"},{"startTime":1141.497,"endTime":1144.967,"body":"that's a lot of time if you look at"},{"startTime":1144.967,"endTime":1147.941,"body":"it, but it's one hour every sprint"},{"startTime":1144.967,"endTime":1147.941,"body":"with everyone of my people, and"},{"startTime":1147.941,"endTime":1148.724,"body":"they have six people on your team."},{"startTime":1148.854,"endTime":1151.906,"body":"So that's six hours, that's three"},{"startTime":1148.854,"endTime":1151.906,"body":"hours a week, and then that averages"},{"startTime":1151.91,"endTime":1155.193,"body":"out to this many a year and we're"},{"startTime":1151.91,"endTime":1155.193,"body":"losing this much productivity."},{"startTime":1155.193,"endTime":1155.845,"body":"That's the way they were painting."},{"startTime":1155.845,"endTime":1157.15,"body":"They're losing they's"},{"startTime":1155.845,"endTime":1157.15,"body":"exactly what they do."},{"startTime":1157.15,"endTime":1157.697,"body":"You're right."},{"startTime":1157.75,"endTime":1160.75,"body":"They extrapolate the heck out of it"},{"startTime":1157.75,"endTime":1160.75,"body":"and they go, oh, you're wasting a"},{"startTime":1160.75,"endTime":1162.68,"body":"sprint every month, or whatever it is."},{"startTime":1162.784,"endTime":1162.993,"body":"Right?"},{"startTime":1162.993,"endTime":1163.063,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":1163.063,"endTime":1163.28,"body":"Right, right."},{"startTime":1163.428,"endTime":1165.428,"body":"They could be developing code during that."},{"startTime":1166.176,"endTime":1169.384,"body":". Um, but yeah, I find that's"},{"startTime":1166.176,"endTime":1169.384,"body":"mostly management rather than"},{"startTime":1169.384,"endTime":1170.297,"body":"leadership that does that."},{"startTime":1170.384,"endTime":1172.55,"body":"That's a metric in search of a"},{"startTime":1170.384,"endTime":1172.55,"body":"problem, right There is what it is."},{"startTime":1173.002,"endTime":1174.202,"body":"The, the other thing with this is like"},{"startTime":1174.21,"endTime":1177.158,"body":"if you have achieved some level of"},{"startTime":1174.21,"endTime":1177.158,"body":"expertise in communication like this, like"},{"startTime":1177.158,"endTime":1180.628,"body":"you probably are the person driving out"},{"startTime":1177.158,"endTime":1180.628,"body":"into the organization talking about when,"},{"startTime":1180.628,"endTime":1184.55,"body":"when deadlines are about to be missed or"},{"startTime":1180.628,"endTime":1184.55,"body":"when commitments are not gonna be hit,"},{"startTime":1184.55,"endTime":1186.376,"body":"or when the team is going off track or."},{"startTime":1186.658,"endTime":1190.754,"body":"You are probably gonna be the person"},{"startTime":1186.658,"endTime":1190.754,"body":"driving ahead of your team to soften"},{"startTime":1190.754,"endTime":1191.902,"body":"that blow throughout the organization."},{"startTime":1191.902,"endTime":1193.658,"body":"It again, assuming you're"},{"startTime":1191.902,"endTime":1193.658,"body":"in an organization where a"},{"startTime":1193.658,"endTime":1194.858,"body":"blow needs to be softened."},{"startTime":1195.215,"endTime":1195.424,"body":", right?"},{"startTime":1195.424,"endTime":1197.276,"body":"If you're in an organization where"},{"startTime":1195.424,"endTime":1197.276,"body":"you talk directly to customers and"},{"startTime":1197.276,"endTime":1199.963,"body":"you only go a couple days and say"},{"startTime":1197.276,"endTime":1199.963,"body":"like, maybe this is not your problem."},{"startTime":1200.015,"endTime":1200.119,"body":"Right?"},{"startTime":1200.25,"endTime":1203.597,"body":"So for those two people, thanks for"},{"startTime":1200.25,"endTime":1203.597,"body":"listening to the podcast for everybody"},{"startTime":1203.597,"endTime":1206.815,"body":"else in the whole world,  thi this"},{"startTime":1203.597,"endTime":1206.815,"body":"is somewhere where a Scrum master"},{"startTime":1206.815,"endTime":1208.38,"body":"or Agile coach can help a lot."},{"startTime":1208.667,"endTime":1208.876,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":1208.876,"endTime":1212.215,"body":"For most people out there, this is a"},{"startTime":1208.876,"endTime":1212.215,"body":"problem that needs to be right addressed."},{"startTime":1212.215,"endTime":1213.989,"body":"And this requires courage."},{"startTime":1214.093,"endTime":1218.137,"body":"Um, absolutely it does because nobody"},{"startTime":1214.093,"endTime":1218.137,"body":"wants to, nobody wants to relay bad."},{"startTime":1218.802,"endTime":1219.141,"body":"right?"},{"startTime":1219.402,"endTime":1222.35,"body":"There's only one thing worse than"},{"startTime":1219.402,"endTime":1222.35,"body":"relaying bad news, and that's relaying"},{"startTime":1222.35,"endTime":1224.097,"body":"bad news later in the process."},{"startTime":1224.15,"endTime":1224.489,"body":"Are you right?"},{"startTime":1224.489,"endTime":1224.828,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":1224.832,"endTime":1224.958,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":1225.167,"endTime":1226.237,"body":"So just be upfront."},{"startTime":1226.676,"endTime":1228.841,"body":"And you say this is, but"},{"startTime":1226.676,"endTime":1228.841,"body":"also, here's the other thing."},{"startTime":1228.928,"endTime":1231.954,"body":", if you're going in with a message"},{"startTime":1228.928,"endTime":1231.954,"body":"that says, oh, we are gonna miss"},{"startTime":1231.954,"endTime":1233.65,"body":"our deadline, don't stop there."},{"startTime":1234.015,"endTime":1234.276,"body":"Right."},{"startTime":1234.302,"endTime":1237.797,"body":"Going in with some underpinning"},{"startTime":1234.302,"endTime":1237.797,"body":"rationale and we're missing our deadline"},{"startTime":1237.797,"endTime":1241.293,"body":"because we had to pull two developers"},{"startTime":1237.797,"endTime":1241.293,"body":"off to work for this feature that"},{"startTime":1241.293,"endTime":1242.806,"body":"needed to be demoed at a trade show."},{"startTime":1242.832,"endTime":1243.076,"body":"Mm-hmm."},{"startTime":1243.145,"endTime":1243.597,"body":", because our CFO."},{"startTime":1244.024,"endTime":1244.65,"body":"wanted to do that."},{"startTime":1244.676,"endTime":1244.754,"body":"Mm-hmm."},{"startTime":1245.067,"endTime":1245.415,"body":", whatever it is."},{"startTime":1245.563,"endTime":1245.85,"body":"Whatever."},{"startTime":1245.85,"endTime":1249.267,"body":"Oh, we had five people off for MLK Day."},{"startTime":1249.38,"endTime":1249.728,"body":"Mm-hmm."},{"startTime":1249.797,"endTime":1250.832,"body":"or People's of Sick, whatever it is."},{"startTime":1251.041,"endTime":1252.867,"body":"Going with some rationale."},{"startTime":1252.919,"endTime":1253.05,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":1253.31,"endTime":1257.119,"body":"Um, and then the other thing, the"},{"startTime":1253.31,"endTime":1257.119,"body":"last thing on this topic is if"},{"startTime":1257.124,"endTime":1260.824,"body":"that's a problem, which it almost"},{"startTime":1257.124,"endTime":1260.824,"body":"uncertain certainly it is going"},{"startTime":1260.824,"endTime":1262.571,"body":"with one or two alternate solutions."},{"startTime":1262.571,"endTime":1264.606,"body":"How do you make sure this"},{"startTime":1262.571,"endTime":1264.606,"body":"doesn't happen again?"},{"startTime":1264.632,"endTime":1266.145,"body":"Because you know you're gonna"},{"startTime":1264.632,"endTime":1266.145,"body":"get asked that question."},{"startTime":1266.406,"endTime":1266.51,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":1266.51,"endTime":1266.824,"body":"You missed the."},{"startTime":1267.576,"endTime":1268.437,"body":"What happens next?"},{"startTime":1268.437,"endTime":1268.489,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":1268.489,"endTime":1270.428,"body":"And you could say we're gonna"},{"startTime":1268.489,"endTime":1270.428,"body":"make it up in the next print."},{"startTime":1270.924,"endTime":1271.263,"body":"Okay."},{"startTime":1271.263,"endTime":1273.924,"body":"But if that happens again"},{"startTime":1271.263,"endTime":1273.924,"body":"and again, that's not good."},{"startTime":1273.976,"endTime":1274.132,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":1274.158,"endTime":1276.019,"body":"So the, the this question"},{"startTime":1274.158,"endTime":1276.019,"body":"will come at you."},{"startTime":1276.176,"endTime":1277.663,"body":"How do you make sure"},{"startTime":1276.176,"endTime":1277.663,"body":"this won't happen again?"},{"startTime":1277.715,"endTime":1280.089,"body":"So go in prepared with an"},{"startTime":1277.715,"endTime":1280.089,"body":"answer to those things."},{"startTime":1280.79,"endTime":1283.616,"body":"maybe like if, if I'm gonna take"},{"startTime":1280.79,"endTime":1283.616,"body":"the arguing Agile approach on"},{"startTime":1283.616,"endTime":1285.634,"body":"this one, I'm just gonna jump"},{"startTime":1283.616,"endTime":1285.634,"body":"straight into the next category."},{"startTime":1285.712,"endTime":1285.79,"body":"Mm-hmm."},{"startTime":1285.999,"endTime":1289.234,"body":", because the next category is"},{"startTime":1285.999,"endTime":1289.234,"body":"about projecting confidence,"},{"startTime":1289.947,"endTime":1291.538,"body":"not just having confidence, right?"},{"startTime":1291.695,"endTime":1292.947,"body":"It's about projecting confidence."},{"startTime":1292.947,"endTime":1295.834,"body":"If, if you know that you're gonna"},{"startTime":1292.947,"endTime":1295.834,"body":"get asked Hey, I'm gonna, I'm gonna"},{"startTime":1295.834,"endTime":1298.095,"body":"go meet with our whatever executive"},{"startTime":1295.834,"endTime":1298.095,"body":"stakeholder, I'm gonna tell them"},{"startTime":1298.095,"endTime":1299.434,"body":"that, um we can't have a demo."},{"startTime":1300.242,"endTime":1301.651,"body":"I got, we have to push the demo back."},{"startTime":1302.173,"endTime":1302.981,"body":"Maybe we can't have a demo."},{"startTime":1302.981,"endTime":1305.538,"body":"This sprint for example, we"},{"startTime":1302.981,"endTime":1305.538,"body":"gotta push a demo to next sprint"},{"startTime":1305.651,"endTime":1308.39,"body":"push demo for a couple days, doesn't"},{"startTime":1305.651,"endTime":1308.39,"body":"matter what it's, and it's not a matter"},{"startTime":1308.39,"endTime":1309.773,"body":"of people are out vacation, sick."},{"startTime":1309.777,"endTime":1310.529,"body":"It's not a matter of that."},{"startTime":1310.529,"endTime":1312.016,"body":"It's a matter of we found something."},{"startTime":1313.216,"endTime":1315.929,"body":"Or we've evolved our understanding"},{"startTime":1313.216,"endTime":1315.929,"body":"of the way things work, or we"},{"startTime":1315.929,"endTime":1318.486,"body":"ran into some kind of technical"},{"startTime":1315.929,"endTime":1318.486,"body":"blocker or something like that."},{"startTime":1318.921,"endTime":1322.268,"body":"the projecting competence part of that"},{"startTime":1318.921,"endTime":1322.268,"body":"is first of all, don't try to BS them."},{"startTime":1323.303,"endTime":1323.695,"body":", right?"},{"startTime":1323.903,"endTime":1328.468,"body":"J just tell them the flat out truth of,"},{"startTime":1323.903,"endTime":1328.468,"body":"Hey, we ran into this technical blocker."},{"startTime":1328.547,"endTime":1330.503,"body":"It ended up being more complex"},{"startTime":1328.547,"endTime":1330.503,"body":"than we thought it was."},{"startTime":1330.686,"endTime":1335.112,"body":"The typical time that something"},{"startTime":1330.686,"endTime":1335.112,"body":"like this will happen is when either"},{"startTime":1335.116,"endTime":1337.929,"body":"we're working, it's funny, it's a"},{"startTime":1335.116,"endTime":1337.929,"body":"one, it's an extreme or another."},{"startTime":1338.164,"endTime":1339.364,"body":"Either we're working on legacy code."},{"startTime":1341.177,"endTime":1344.464,"body":"and changing one piece of the legacy"},{"startTime":1341.177,"endTime":1344.464,"body":"code sends you down a rabbit hole."},{"startTime":1344.568,"endTime":1344.647,"body":"Mm-hmm."},{"startTime":1344.934,"endTime":1348.612,"body":"of cascading problems that you have"},{"startTime":1344.934,"endTime":1348.612,"body":"to either be very careful to fix"},{"startTime":1348.612,"endTime":1351.795,"body":"or you have to just fix 'em all, or"},{"startTime":1348.612,"endTime":1351.795,"body":"you have to go change the way you're"},{"startTime":1351.795,"endTime":1352.838,"body":"gonna do things in the first place."},{"startTime":1353.151,"endTime":1356.638,"body":"And the other side of it is, Working"},{"startTime":1353.151,"endTime":1356.638,"body":"in some brand new technology that"},{"startTime":1356.638,"endTime":1358.047,"body":"nobody knows, you know what I mean?"},{"startTime":1358.047,"endTime":1359.273,"body":"And we're developing"},{"startTime":1358.047,"endTime":1359.273,"body":"it for the first time."},{"startTime":1359.273,"endTime":1362.951,"body":"Or maybe we're proof of concepting"},{"startTime":1359.273,"endTime":1362.951,"body":"something out with a new technology"},{"startTime":1362.955,"endTime":1364.073,"body":"that we've never worked with before."},{"startTime":1364.203,"endTime":1366.681,"body":"Like it's one of those, like a very,"},{"startTime":1364.203,"endTime":1366.681,"body":"very olsa, very, very new stuff."},{"startTime":1366.76,"endTime":1366.916,"body":"Sure."},{"startTime":1366.916,"endTime":1369.76,"body":"Is usually where you have , that"},{"startTime":1366.916,"endTime":1369.76,"body":"kind of problem of, Hey, we said we"},{"startTime":1369.764,"endTime":1372.16,"body":"were gonna do this, and then when"},{"startTime":1369.764,"endTime":1372.16,"body":"we got in there, we realized it"},{"startTime":1372.16,"endTime":1373.308,"body":"was, it was a lot more complicated."},{"startTime":1373.308,"endTime":1375.134,"body":"We need to take, we need to slow"},{"startTime":1373.308,"endTime":1375.134,"body":"down, take a little more time to"},{"startTime":1375.134,"endTime":1375.942,"body":"figure out how we're gonna do it."},{"startTime":1377.242,"endTime":1379.912,"body":"because of that, we need to push"},{"startTime":1377.242,"endTime":1379.912,"body":"the whatever whatever the deadline"},{"startTime":1379.912,"endTime":1380.773,"body":"deliverable, whatever it is."},{"startTime":1380.825,"endTime":1382.442,"body":"That's a pretty good situation to be in."},{"startTime":1382.442,"endTime":1385.164,"body":"If you have if you have"},{"startTime":1382.442,"endTime":1385.164,"body":"rationale like that, because"},{"startTime":1385.164,"endTime":1386.338,"body":"that's gonna be badly received."},{"startTime":1386.821,"endTime":1389.325,"body":", you, there's a reason"},{"startTime":1386.821,"endTime":1389.325,"body":"why you've missed it."},{"startTime":1389.368,"endTime":1389.647,"body":"Mm-hmm."},{"startTime":1389.716,"endTime":1390.629,"body":", and you haven't really missed it."},{"startTime":1390.629,"endTime":1391.855,"body":"You're just simply delaying it."},{"startTime":1392.09,"endTime":1393.629,"body":"And that's because"},{"startTime":1392.09,"endTime":1393.629,"body":"you've learned something."},{"startTime":1393.634,"endTime":1393.708,"body":"Right."},{"startTime":1393.76,"endTime":1395.325,"body":"And that learning means what?"},{"startTime":1395.429,"endTime":1395.716,"body":"Right."},{"startTime":1395.925,"endTime":1398.403,"body":"That learning means you pause and"},{"startTime":1395.925,"endTime":1398.403,"body":"you've pivot or whatever it is."},{"startTime":1398.716,"endTime":1401.064,"body":"Those things are quite well"},{"startTime":1398.716,"endTime":1401.064,"body":"received most of the time."},{"startTime":1401.068,"endTime":1401.56,"body":"Right."},{"startTime":1401.621,"endTime":1403.499,"body":"because what's the alternative?"},{"startTime":1403.499,"endTime":1406.829,"body":"Just like be a a blinkered"},{"startTime":1403.499,"endTime":1406.829,"body":"horse and just drive through"},{"startTime":1406.829,"endTime":1408.003,"body":"and know it's gonna fail now."},{"startTime":1408.008,"endTime":1408.055,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":1408.316,"endTime":1416.564,"body":"So,  again, don't wait until a certain"},{"startTime":1408.316,"endTime":1416.564,"body":"time, which is often misinterpreted in."},{"startTime":1416.564,"endTime":1418.39,"body":"Agile is the last"},{"startTime":1416.564,"endTime":1418.39,"body":"responsible moment, right?"},{"startTime":1418.39,"endTime":1421.129,"body":"If you've learned something"},{"startTime":1418.39,"endTime":1421.129,"body":"like this, wave the flag early."},{"startTime":1421.129,"endTime":1422.825,"body":"Just say, we're going down this path."},{"startTime":1422.851,"endTime":1423.495,"body":"Here's what we've learned."},{"startTime":1423.808,"endTime":1424.512,"body":"We're gonna pause."},{"startTime":1424.538,"endTime":1425.634,"body":"That means no demo this sprint."},{"startTime":1425.66,"endTime":1425.738,"body":"Mm-hmm."},{"startTime":1425.912,"endTime":1428.886,"body":"and if you do that, I don't"},{"startTime":1425.912,"endTime":1428.886,"body":"think you can go wrong."},{"startTime":1428.912,"endTime":1431.86,"body":"I think most of the time leadership's"},{"startTime":1428.912,"endTime":1431.86,"body":"gonna say, okay, we understand why."},{"startTime":1431.912,"endTime":1432.147,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":1432.303,"endTime":1432.564,"body":"Right?"},{"startTime":1432.851,"endTime":1432.903,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":1433.034,"endTime":1435.721,"body":"Uh, that you may get questions if"},{"startTime":1433.034,"endTime":1435.721,"body":"you're not clear about your messaging."},{"startTime":1435.721,"endTime":1438.503,"body":"If you say we've learned"},{"startTime":1435.721,"endTime":1438.503,"body":"something new, caused us to pivot."},{"startTime":1438.503,"endTime":1439.208,"body":"What have you learned?"},{"startTime":1439.338,"endTime":1439.651,"body":"Right?"},{"startTime":1439.808,"endTime":1440.877,"body":"What's, what's next?"},{"startTime":1441.242,"endTime":1442.234,"body":"How big is the pivot?"},{"startTime":1442.39,"endTime":1442.912,"body":"Mm-hmm."},{"startTime":1443.077,"endTime":1445.06,"body":"you'll get questions like that"},{"startTime":1443.077,"endTime":1445.06,"body":"so you can get ahead of that."},{"startTime":1445.138,"endTime":1445.399,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":1445.895,"endTime":1449.573,"body":"Well also, you shouldn't be the only one"},{"startTime":1445.895,"endTime":1449.573,"body":"as a coach, scrum master, like you can"},{"startTime":1449.573,"endTime":1452.234,"body":"go a long way towards helping move those"},{"startTime":1449.573,"endTime":1452.234,"body":"conversations along in a productive."},{"startTime":1453.277,"endTime":1457.59,"body":". However, the two examples I just"},{"startTime":1453.277,"endTime":1457.59,"body":"gave are pretty much product centric"},{"startTime":1457.59,"endTime":1459.468,"body":"examples, so you shouldn't be the"},{"startTime":1457.59,"endTime":1459.468,"body":"only one in that conversation."},{"startTime":1459.468,"endTime":1459.547,"body":"Sure."},{"startTime":1459.677,"endTime":1461.947,"body":"And again, it's, it goes a long way"},{"startTime":1459.677,"endTime":1461.947,"body":"of projecting confidence when when"},{"startTime":1461.947,"endTime":1465.373,"body":"you partner with somebody else,"},{"startTime":1461.947,"endTime":1465.373,"body":"cuz now it's two on one and  that,"},{"startTime":1465.538,"endTime":1468.738,"body":"that should help you with your"},{"startTime":1465.538,"endTime":1468.738,"body":"confidence a little bit, yeah, yeah."},{"startTime":1468.738,"endTime":1469.051,"body":"Agreed."},{"startTime":1469.051,"endTime":1469.573,"body":"Absolutely."},{"startTime":1470.799,"endTime":1474.108,"body":"Strength in numbers,  there"},{"startTime":1470.799,"endTime":1474.108,"body":"is, I mean, so, so there's some"},{"startTime":1474.108,"endTime":1476.377,"body":"general stuff to, to help here."},{"startTime":1476.377,"endTime":1477.629,"body":"Let's say that you're developing the."},{"startTime":1478.386,"endTime":1479.664,"body":"process, right?"},{"startTime":1479.664,"endTime":1481.099,"body":"Let's say it's not"},{"startTime":1479.664,"endTime":1481.099,"body":"something product specific."},{"startTime":1481.099,"endTime":1483.351,"body":"Let's say you're developing like a,"},{"startTime":1481.099,"endTime":1483.351,"body":"like for example I'm a leadership"},{"startTime":1483.351,"endTime":1486.612,"body":"and I'm saying, Hey how come"},{"startTime":1483.351,"endTime":1486.612,"body":"this new team that I, I created"},{"startTime":1486.612,"endTime":1488.281,"body":"a new team for this new whatever."},{"startTime":1488.286,"endTime":1491.881,"body":"I split a couple team people from team a"},{"startTime":1488.286,"endTime":1491.881,"body":"couple people from team B, and I created"},{"startTime":1491.881,"endTime":1494.334,"body":"a new team C, but team C seems to."},{"startTime":1495.103,"endTime":1497.947,"body":"Um, not advancing very quickly."},{"startTime":1498.051,"endTime":1500.321,"body":"You know, maybe it's taken them three"},{"startTime":1498.051,"endTime":1500.321,"body":"months and they're still not really"},{"startTime":1500.321,"endTime":1503.521,"body":"producing they can't get stuff finished,"},{"startTime":1500.321,"endTime":1503.521,"body":"sprint to sprint, that kind of thing."},{"startTime":1503.964,"endTime":1504.895,"body":"Pretty typical problems."},{"startTime":1505.208,"endTime":1508.038,"body":"If something is,  process related."},{"startTime":1508.847,"endTime":1511.429,"body":", you, I think you still can project"},{"startTime":1508.847,"endTime":1511.429,"body":"confidence, like you can still project"},{"startTime":1511.429,"endTime":1515.029,"body":"confidence, but projecting confidence"},{"startTime":1511.429,"endTime":1515.029,"body":"in this, in this arena requires"},{"startTime":1515.034,"endTime":1517.821,"body":"you to have evidence behind you."},{"startTime":1517.925,"endTime":1519.464,"body":"You need to have data behind"},{"startTime":1517.925,"endTime":1519.464,"body":"you, is what I'm saying."},{"startTime":1519.464,"endTime":1522.534,"body":"So if you're an agile coach or scrum"},{"startTime":1519.464,"endTime":1522.534,"body":"master like having that experiment"},{"startTime":1522.534,"endTime":1526.073,"body":"log that we talked about way at the"},{"startTime":1522.534,"endTime":1526.073,"body":"beginning that really helps you just"},{"startTime":1526.073,"endTime":1527.66,"body":"say, These are the things that we tried."},{"startTime":1527.686,"endTime":1529.434,"body":"These are the things a"},{"startTime":1527.686,"endTime":1529.434,"body":"typical team needs to do,"},{"startTime":1529.521,"endTime":1530.277,"body":"yeah, I agree."},{"startTime":1530.277,"endTime":1531.921,"body":"I think evidence is key here, right?"},{"startTime":1531.947,"endTime":1533.564,"body":"Otherwise you, it's just your opinion."},{"startTime":1533.773,"endTime":1534.06,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":1534.06,"endTime":1534.268,"body":"Right."},{"startTime":1534.268,"endTime":1537.164,"body":"And everybody has those"},{"startTime":1534.268,"endTime":1537.164,"body":"multiple opinions usually."},{"startTime":1537.434,"endTime":1539.886,"body":", so going with evidence"},{"startTime":1537.434,"endTime":1539.886,"body":"but also don't forget to."},{"startTime":1541.212,"endTime":1544.838,"body":"go in with some knowledge that you"},{"startTime":1541.212,"endTime":1544.838,"body":"have that, that others may not have."},{"startTime":1544.838,"endTime":1548.021,"body":"Like for example, in that you"},{"startTime":1544.838,"endTime":1548.021,"body":"cited team C , pulled together."},{"startTime":1548.073,"endTime":1548.255,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":1548.255,"endTime":1549.69,"body":"With bits and pieces from A and b."},{"startTime":1550.864,"endTime":1552.299,"body":"Go ahead and show that."},{"startTime":1552.325,"endTime":1554.36,"body":"Teams need to go through"},{"startTime":1552.325,"endTime":1554.36,"body":"a certain process mm-hmm."},{"startTime":1554.429,"endTime":1554.464,"body":", right."},{"startTime":1554.464,"endTime":1556.055,"body":"The, the, the tuckman's model."},{"startTime":1556.238,"endTime":1560.621,"body":"But, so if you explain it like that and"},{"startTime":1556.238,"endTime":1560.621,"body":"there's rationale, people can underst."},{"startTime":1561.216,"endTime":1564.416,"body":"If, if you just say, well, they need time,"},{"startTime":1561.216,"endTime":1564.416,"body":"and then next time it's the same thing."},{"startTime":1564.442,"endTime":1564.677,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":1564.677,"endTime":1565.277,"body":"They need time."},{"startTime":1565.277,"endTime":1566.19,"body":"That's not gonna fare well."},{"startTime":1566.19,"endTime":1567.051,"body":"Right, right."},{"startTime":1567.573,"endTime":1567.729,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":1567.773,"endTime":1569.025,"body":"I tell people this all the time."},{"startTime":1569.029,"endTime":1571.112,"body":"I was like, you're, you're either"},{"startTime":1569.029,"endTime":1571.112,"body":"gonna run outta money for whatever"},{"startTime":1571.112,"endTime":1573.251,"body":"you're funding the team from is gonna"},{"startTime":1571.112,"endTime":1573.251,"body":"run outta money, or you're gonna"},{"startTime":1573.251,"endTime":1575.264,"body":"run out of LE leadership patience."},{"startTime":1575.29,"endTime":1577.012,"body":"And then like those are very real."},{"startTime":1577.142,"endTime":1579.047,"body":"You can call it political capital,"},{"startTime":1577.142,"endTime":1579.047,"body":"whatever you wanna call it, but"},{"startTime":1579.36,"endTime":1580.69,"body":"like it's, you're gonna run out."},{"startTime":1581.116,"endTime":1587.168,"body":"If you don't show some kind of progress"},{"startTime":1581.116,"endTime":1587.168,"body":"confidence aside you can do a lot when"},{"startTime":1587.168,"endTime":1588.447,"body":"those people are asking questions."},{"startTime":1589.229,"endTime":1592.942,"body":", by having confidence in understanding"},{"startTime":1589.229,"endTime":1592.942,"body":"that where you're leading."},{"startTime":1593.464,"endTime":1596.438,"body":"is the right way to lead, but at some"},{"startTime":1593.464,"endTime":1596.438,"body":"point you're gonna need to show evidence."},{"startTime":1596.908,"endTime":1597.481,"body":"Absolutely."},{"startTime":1597.612,"endTime":1599.568,"body":"I, I think the earlier you"},{"startTime":1597.612,"endTime":1599.568,"body":"show evidence, the better."},{"startTime":1599.568,"endTime":1599.908,"body":"Right."},{"startTime":1600.116,"endTime":1602.986,"body":"Otherwise, it'll be misconstrued"},{"startTime":1600.116,"endTime":1602.986,"body":"as you kind of just Right."},{"startTime":1602.99,"endTime":1603.195,"body":"You know?"},{"startTime":1603.403,"endTime":1603.638,"body":"Right."},{"startTime":1603.977,"endTime":1606.49,"body":"Either flying by the seat of"},{"startTime":1603.977,"endTime":1606.49,"body":"your pants or trying to wing it."},{"startTime":1606.542,"endTime":1606.855,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":1606.908,"endTime":1607.795,"body":"And that's never a good thing."},{"startTime":1607.821,"endTime":1608.786,"body":"Well, hopefully you won't have to do that."},{"startTime":1608.973,"endTime":1611.964,"body":"If you have a vision that if you"},{"startTime":1608.973,"endTime":1611.964,"body":"have a vision for every team and how"},{"startTime":1611.964,"endTime":1615.677,"body":"every team kind of weaves together in"},{"startTime":1611.964,"endTime":1615.677,"body":"service to the larger organization,"},{"startTime":1615.677,"endTime":1617.347,"body":"then you won't have to wing it."},{"startTime":1617.46,"endTime":1620.842,"body":"because like winging it is like that's"},{"startTime":1617.46,"endTime":1620.842,"body":"a surefire away where projecting"},{"startTime":1620.842,"endTime":1623.747,"body":"confidence starts to breaking down"},{"startTime":1620.842,"endTime":1623.747,"body":"because you're not sure anymore."},{"startTime":1624.138,"endTime":1624.321,"body":"Correct."},{"startTime":1624.321,"endTime":1624.555,"body":"You know?"},{"startTime":1625.051,"endTime":1625.468,"body":"Correct."},{"startTime":1625.521,"endTime":1627.451,"body":"And then your assertion, one"},{"startTime":1625.521,"endTime":1627.451,"body":"of your assertions will be"},{"startTime":1627.451,"endTime":1629.668,"body":"completely out and left for you and"},{"startTime":1627.451,"endTime":1629.668,"body":"without you even realizing that."},{"startTime":1630.195,"endTime":1631.342,"body":"Because it's not evidence based."},{"startTime":1631.342,"endTime":1631.395,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":1631.655,"endTime":1635.595,"body":"So, so just in that last example,"},{"startTime":1631.655,"endTime":1635.595,"body":"team C, if you can, if you can see"},{"startTime":1635.934,"endTime":1640.655,"body":"on a, a table or a graph that team"},{"startTime":1635.934,"endTime":1640.655,"body":"C is actually improving sprint."},{"startTime":1640.655,"endTime":1641.881,"body":"On sprint, they're just not there."},{"startTime":1641.881,"endTime":1643.551,"body":"Where teams A and B are, right."},{"startTime":1643.76,"endTime":1645.429,"body":"Cuz A and B are more mature teams."},{"startTime":1645.925,"endTime":1646.916,"body":"That's a good story."},{"startTime":1646.921,"endTime":1647.203,"body":"Mm-hmm."},{"startTime":1647.277,"endTime":1647.308,"body":", right?"},{"startTime":1647.308,"endTime":1647.934,"body":"They're improving."},{"startTime":1648.299,"endTime":1650.855,"body":"And then you could use the power of"},{"startTime":1648.299,"endTime":1650.855,"body":"projection and say in five sprints"},{"startTime":1650.855,"endTime":1651.847,"body":"we're gonna be at the same level."},{"startTime":1651.847,"endTime":1652.081,"body":"Right."},{"startTime":1652.108,"endTime":1652.499,"body":"Or, or whatever."},{"startTime":1652.499,"endTime":1652.681,"body":"Right."},{"startTime":1652.977,"endTime":1653.36,"body":"Right."},{"startTime":1653.364,"endTime":1653.886,"body":", that shows."},{"startTime":1654.486,"endTime":1658.06,"body":"Got evidence to back up the"},{"startTime":1654.486,"endTime":1658.06,"body":"fact that they are still forming"},{"startTime":1658.06,"endTime":1659.129,"body":"or whatever stage they're at."},{"startTime":1659.303,"endTime":1659.547,"body":"Mm-hmm."},{"startTime":1659.703,"endTime":1660.173,"body":". So, yes."},{"startTime":1660.173,"endTime":1661.451,"body":"That, that's a, that's a good point."},{"startTime":1661.451,"endTime":1662.886,"body":"Have the confidence to."},{"startTime":1663.281,"endTime":1665.916,"body":"Basically use the numbers"},{"startTime":1663.281,"endTime":1665.916,"body":"to underpin your story."},{"startTime":1666.021,"endTime":1670.455,"body":"We haven't even touched on any of the"},{"startTime":1666.021,"endTime":1670.455,"body":"stereotypical advice that you would"},{"startTime":1670.46,"endTime":1674.734,"body":"get about projecting confidence,"},{"startTime":1670.46,"endTime":1674.734,"body":"which is all true and applicable"},{"startTime":1675.073,"endTime":1676.038,"body":"to what we're talking about now."},{"startTime":1676.273,"endTime":1679.629,"body":"In order to project confidence, which"},{"startTime":1676.273,"endTime":1679.629,"body":"you, the pseudonym for projecting"},{"startTime":1679.634,"endTime":1683.238,"body":"confidence would be to be a better"},{"startTime":1679.634,"endTime":1683.238,"body":"leader in order to be a better leader."},{"startTime":1685.038,"endTime":1687.577,"body":", everything we talked about with"},{"startTime":1685.038,"endTime":1687.577,"body":"communicating more clearly."},{"startTime":1687.577,"endTime":1690.708,"body":"Everything we talked about, about having"},{"startTime":1687.577,"endTime":1690.708,"body":"courage when interacting with people."},{"startTime":1690.712,"endTime":1692.664,"body":"And then, and then starting"},{"startTime":1690.712,"endTime":1692.664,"body":"kind of with the vision of where"},{"startTime":1692.668,"endTime":1693.577,"body":"you wanna go to the future."},{"startTime":1693.76,"endTime":1695.568,"body":"All that stuff is all these"},{"startTime":1693.76,"endTime":1695.568,"body":"are leadership traits."},{"startTime":1696.281,"endTime":1699.125,"body":"Boy, this is the leadership in disguise"},{"startTime":1696.281,"endTime":1699.125,"body":"without saying leadership podcast."},{"startTime":1699.125,"endTime":1700.56,"body":"Like this is the don't"},{"startTime":1699.125,"endTime":1700.56,"body":"say leadership podcast."},{"startTime":1700.873,"endTime":1703.334,"body":"Uh, in order to project confidence,"},{"startTime":1700.873,"endTime":1703.334,"body":"you have to have all that stuff, but"},{"startTime":1703.334,"endTime":1708.012,"body":"also it has, the presentation has to"},{"startTime":1703.334,"endTime":1708.012,"body":"fit all the rest of the categories."},{"startTime":1708.012,"endTime":1710.916,"body":"This is where I'm gonna get, I ex if"},{"startTime":1708.012,"endTime":1710.916,"body":"I'm gonna get dinged for anything I'm"},{"startTime":1710.916,"endTime":1713.89,"body":"saying, I'm gonna get dinged for this"},{"startTime":1710.916,"endTime":1713.89,"body":"category because I have an intern."},{"startTime":1713.916,"endTime":1716.629,"body":"Like I, I think it, like earlier in"},{"startTime":1713.916,"endTime":1716.629,"body":"my career, I had an internal bias"},{"startTime":1716.655,"endTime":1717.934,"body":"cuz you had like, there are those."},{"startTime":1718.381,"endTime":1720.886,"body":"Like, if you think about your"},{"startTime":1718.381,"endTime":1720.886,"body":"stereotypical car salesman,"},{"startTime":1720.886,"endTime":1724.355,"body":"salesperson, like they're,"},{"startTime":1720.886,"endTime":1724.355,"body":"they're like, Hey buddy, hey guy."},{"startTime":1724.668,"endTime":1726.416,"body":"And then they smile a lot and"},{"startTime":1724.668,"endTime":1726.416,"body":"they, you know what I mean?"},{"startTime":1726.416,"endTime":1728.816,"body":"They, they're always positive and"},{"startTime":1726.416,"endTime":1728.816,"body":"upbeat and that kind of stuff."},{"startTime":1728.821,"endTime":1729.651,"body":"Like sure."},{"startTime":1729.651,"endTime":1732.834,"body":"Some of that is an act like they're,"},{"startTime":1729.651,"endTime":1732.834,"body":"they're, they're acting like that."},{"startTime":1733.251,"endTime":1737.86,"body":"Uh, however some of that is genuine traits"},{"startTime":1733.251,"endTime":1737.86,"body":"that you need your leaders to embody."},{"startTime":1737.86,"endTime":1740.616,"body":"You need them, generally"},{"startTime":1737.86,"endTime":1740.616,"body":"speaking, to be positive."},{"startTime":1741.064,"endTime":1744.09,"body":"You need them to be the ones with"},{"startTime":1741.064,"endTime":1744.09,"body":"the most, I think the same thing."},{"startTime":1744.09,"endTime":1745.238,"body":"I think of like your product people."},{"startTime":1745.342,"endTime":1748.525,"body":"You want your product people to be,"},{"startTime":1745.342,"endTime":1748.525,"body":"to be the most energetic people."},{"startTime":1748.655,"endTime":1752.255,"body":"When it comes to you talking about"},{"startTime":1748.655,"endTime":1752.255,"body":"the vision and future of your product."},{"startTime":1752.777,"endTime":1753.612,"body":"Hey, absolutely."},{"startTime":1753.612,"endTime":1755.595,"body":"Enthusiasm is infectious."},{"startTime":1755.647,"endTime":1755.881,"body":"Right?"},{"startTime":1755.934,"endTime":1756.195,"body":"Right."},{"startTime":1756.199,"endTime":1759.116,"body":"If you don't have it, people"},{"startTime":1756.199,"endTime":1759.116,"body":"are gonna certainly notice"},{"startTime":1759.195,"endTime":1760.629,"body":"very clearly the lack of it."},{"startTime":1760.655,"endTime":1760.995,"body":"Right?"},{"startTime":1760.999,"endTime":1761.151,"body":"Right."},{"startTime":1761.177,"endTime":1762.508,"body":"And that also is infectious."},{"startTime":1762.508,"endTime":1769.421,"body":"So, , you, you really gotta rally"},{"startTime":1762.508,"endTime":1769.421,"body":"your, your team around your way of"},{"startTime":1769.734,"endTime":1771.429,"body":"projecting confidence in this example."},{"startTime":1771.434,"endTime":1771.603,"body":"Right?"},{"startTime":1771.608,"endTime":1771.69,"body":"Right."},{"startTime":1771.695,"endTime":1774.56,"body":"And having that, and I don't think"},{"startTime":1771.695,"endTime":1774.56,"body":"it needs to be necessarily like"},{"startTime":1774.768,"endTime":1777.042,"body":"practiced or, or fake or anything."},{"startTime":1777.095,"endTime":1780.042,"body":"I mean, if you're a product person,"},{"startTime":1777.095,"endTime":1780.042,"body":"you're a product person for a reason, you"},{"startTime":1780.042,"endTime":1781.816,"body":"know that that's the path you've chosen."},{"startTime":1781.816,"endTime":1782.947,"body":"Same thing with an agile coach."},{"startTime":1783.225,"endTime":1785.025,"body":"You are there because"},{"startTime":1783.225,"endTime":1785.025,"body":"you genuinely care about."},{"startTime":1785.873,"endTime":1787.542,"body":"Teams and improving the process, right?"},{"startTime":1787.777,"endTime":1789.968,"body":"So just don't hold back."},{"startTime":1790.151,"endTime":1792.577,"body":"Don't hold back and say, well,"},{"startTime":1790.151,"endTime":1792.577,"body":"how is this gonna be interpreted?"},{"startTime":1792.577,"endTime":1794.412,"body":"Maybe I'm I'm the only one Right."},{"startTime":1794.412,"endTime":1796.081,"body":"Saying all these things"},{"startTime":1794.412,"endTime":1796.081,"body":"and nobody really cares."},{"startTime":1796.151,"endTime":1796.29,"body":"Right."},{"startTime":1796.603,"endTime":1798.925,"body":"Uh, you need to be evangelist right here."},{"startTime":1798.925,"endTime":1799.108,"body":"Right,"},{"startTime":1799.151,"endTime":1803.351,"body":"this is why I wanna do a whole"},{"startTime":1799.151,"endTime":1803.351,"body":"podcast on Carol Dweck's mindset book."},{"startTime":1803.795,"endTime":1806.499,"body":"Cuz the idea is there's some people"},{"startTime":1803.795,"endTime":1806.499,"body":"who say, well, I just can't like like"},{"startTime":1806.499,"endTime":1810.281,"body":"the, the, the people who complain a"},{"startTime":1806.499,"endTime":1810.281,"body":"lot or gossip, you know what I mean?"},{"startTime":1810.281,"endTime":1812.942,"body":"Back biting is another, like the"},{"startTime":1810.281,"endTime":1812.942,"body":"little bad, little tiny, little bad"},{"startTime":1812.942,"endTime":1815.055,"body":"behaviors that leadership will see"},{"startTime":1812.942,"endTime":1815.055,"body":"and then kind of identify and be like,"},{"startTime":1815.499,"endTime":1816.49,"body":"well, I don't know about this person."},{"startTime":1816.495,"endTime":1817.142,"body":"That kind of stuff."},{"startTime":1817.238,"endTime":1818.899,"body":"people will say, well I can't change."},{"startTime":1818.899,"endTime":1819.76,"body":"Like, that's just who I am."},{"startTime":1819.76,"endTime":1820.229,"body":"I, you know what I mean?"},{"startTime":1820.229,"endTime":1822.168,"body":"It's I'm in people who"},{"startTime":1820.229,"endTime":1822.168,"body":"are negative people."},{"startTime":1822.168,"endTime":1822.899,"body":"Like that's just who I am."},{"startTime":1823.16,"endTime":1826.16,"body":"Well like if you read that book,"},{"startTime":1823.16,"endTime":1826.16,"body":"you'll start to realize like, yes,"},{"startTime":1826.16,"endTime":1828.481,"body":"you might have been raised that"},{"startTime":1826.16,"endTime":1828.481,"body":"way, or you might have these traits"},{"startTime":1828.481,"endTime":1829.499,"body":"in your personality or whatever."},{"startTime":1830.647,"endTime":1833.499,"body":"but that doesn't mean that that"},{"startTime":1830.647,"endTime":1833.499,"body":"that doesn't mean those behaviors,"},{"startTime":1833.838,"endTime":1836.647,"body":"no matter how , deeply ingrained"},{"startTime":1833.838,"endTime":1836.647,"body":"they are, are not changeable."},{"startTime":1836.699,"endTime":1838.316,"body":"And that that book is what it's about."},{"startTime":1838.316,"endTime":1840.764,"body":"It's about that book is what all"},{"startTime":1838.316,"endTime":1840.764,"body":"that kind of thinking is about."},{"startTime":1840.816,"endTime":1844.181,"body":"Um, you have behaviors you"},{"startTime":1840.816,"endTime":1844.181,"body":"consciously are aware of them."},{"startTime":1844.234,"endTime":1845.981,"body":"I guess that's step one and"},{"startTime":1844.234,"endTime":1845.981,"body":"become consciously aware."},{"startTime":1846.164,"endTime":1846.321,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":1846.503,"endTime":1848.773,"body":"And then you have those"},{"startTime":1846.503,"endTime":1848.773,"body":"behaviors, you can change them."},{"startTime":1849.295,"endTime":1851.955,"body":"Even thinking that you can't"},{"startTime":1849.295,"endTime":1851.955,"body":"change 'em is a mindset."},{"startTime":1852.503,"endTime":1853.886,"body":"and you need to overcome that."},{"startTime":1854.173,"endTime":1859.112,"body":"So maybe you're like, I, I, I've been"},{"startTime":1854.173,"endTime":1859.112,"body":"with a, um quite a few project managers"},{"startTime":1859.112,"endTime":1861.381,"body":"across my career that are like, they"},{"startTime":1859.112,"endTime":1861.381,"body":"think negatively, you know what I mean?"},{"startTime":1861.381,"endTime":1863.495,"body":"They always expect dates to"},{"startTime":1861.381,"endTime":1863.495,"body":"be missed and stuff like that."},{"startTime":1863.808,"endTime":1866.96,"body":"Like there, there, there is there are"},{"startTime":1863.808,"endTime":1866.96,"body":"ways that you can overcome these things."},{"startTime":1867.203,"endTime":1870.177,"body":"This is the only reason I'm bringing"},{"startTime":1867.203,"endTime":1870.177,"body":"this up cause it's like only tangentially"},{"startTime":1870.177,"endTime":1871.09,"body":"related to what we're talking about."},{"startTime":1871.668,"endTime":1876.86,"body":"Is if you find yourself with these"},{"startTime":1871.668,"endTime":1876.86,"body":"negative traits, you can't overcome them."},{"startTime":1877.225,"endTime":1878.921,"body":"You just need to put in"},{"startTime":1877.225,"endTime":1878.921,"body":"some work to overcome them."},{"startTime":1879.442,"endTime":1879.625,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":1879.625,"endTime":1882.434,"body":"I think we're squarely now in"},{"startTime":1879.625,"endTime":1882.434,"body":"the in the domain of emotional"},{"startTime":1882.434,"endTime":1884.025,"body":"intelligence, being self-aware."},{"startTime":1884.051,"endTime":1884.208,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":1884.442,"endTime":1887.242,"body":"So if you are not self-aware,"},{"startTime":1884.442,"endTime":1887.242,"body":"you are really just going."},{"startTime":1887.895,"endTime":1892.747,"body":"Like a molecule in brownian"},{"startTime":1887.895,"endTime":1892.747,"body":"motion just that random, right?"},{"startTime":1892.903,"endTime":1892.981,"body":"Mm-hmm."},{"startTime":1893.268,"endTime":1894.599,"body":"."},{"startTime":1893.268,"endTime":1894.599,"body":"so the first step to your point, yes."},{"startTime":1894.599,"endTime":1895.59,"body":"Self-awareness, right?"},{"startTime":1895.616,"endTime":1899.216,"body":"And then realizing what you"},{"startTime":1895.616,"endTime":1899.216,"body":"are, where your limitations are,"},{"startTime":1899.216,"endTime":1899.947,"body":"and where you want to improve."},{"startTime":1900.39,"endTime":1904.486,"body":"I agree fully that the, the"},{"startTime":1900.39,"endTime":1904.486,"body":"traits that you have are plastic,"},{"startTime":1904.486,"endTime":1905.868,"body":"they can be molded, right?"},{"startTime":1905.947,"endTime":1905.999,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":1905.999,"endTime":1907.642,"body":"You just need the"},{"startTime":1905.999,"endTime":1907.642,"body":"motivation to do it, right?"},{"startTime":1908.086,"endTime":1912.573,"body":"And I, I want to close this podcast with"},{"startTime":1908.086,"endTime":1912.573,"body":"the, the last item that I had written"},{"startTime":1912.573,"endTime":1914.399,"body":"down, which is do it with questions."},{"startTime":1914.399,"endTime":1918.051,"body":"Communicate with questions , in the"},{"startTime":1914.399,"endTime":1918.051,"body":"realm of being a good angelist scrum"},{"startTime":1918.051,"endTime":1920.477,"body":"master as a coach, whatever the idea."},{"startTime":1920.477,"endTime":1926.342,"body":", that you, you, you probably do have the"},{"startTime":1920.477,"endTime":1926.342,"body":"knowledge, especially when you, when"},{"startTime":1926.342,"endTime":1929.212,"body":"you get a couple years in, you probably"},{"startTime":1926.342,"endTime":1929.212,"body":"do have the knowledge to tell people,"},{"startTime":1929.264,"endTime":1931.847,"body":"well, you should do this, you should"},{"startTime":1929.264,"endTime":1931.847,"body":"change your processes and do this."},{"startTime":1932.447,"endTime":1936.655,"body":"However that's, that's, that is"},{"startTime":1932.447,"endTime":1936.655,"body":"almost never going to work, . Right?"},{"startTime":1937.021,"endTime":1937.308,"body":"Right."},{"startTime":1937.438,"endTime":1939.577,"body":"The, so it's for several reasons."},{"startTime":1939.577,"endTime":1941.534,"body":"It's almost, it's, which is"},{"startTime":1939.577,"endTime":1941.534,"body":"super frustrating to me because"},{"startTime":1941.538,"endTime":1944.881,"body":"I'm like, well, I, I I if you,"},{"startTime":1941.538,"endTime":1944.881,"body":"it's super frustrating to me."},{"startTime":1945.116,"endTime":1948.455,"body":"I, I think I could be wrong on this one."},{"startTime":1948.638,"endTime":1952.264,"body":"That is also super annoying to"},{"startTime":1948.638,"endTime":1952.264,"body":"like business leaders who would"},{"startTime":1952.264,"endTime":1954.508,"body":"just prefer to just snap their"},{"startTime":1952.264,"endTime":1954.508,"body":"fingers and solve the problem,"},{"startTime":1954.925,"endTime":1956.751,"body":"like, wow, I'm gonna"},{"startTime":1954.925,"endTime":1956.751,"body":"pay you as a consultant."},{"startTime":1956.855,"endTime":1959.825,"body":"Uh I'm gonna pay Brian and Om's"},{"startTime":1956.855,"endTime":1959.825,"body":"software development company to."},{"startTime":1960.503,"endTime":1961.338,"body":"And fix things for me."},{"startTime":1961.338,"endTime":1964.26,"body":"Why do I have to go through three"},{"startTime":1961.338,"endTime":1964.26,"body":"months of my team forming and storming"},{"startTime":1964.729,"endTime":1966.425,"body":"before you start figuring problems out?"},{"startTime":1966.425,"endTime":1969.899,"body":"Well, because like your team has"},{"startTime":1966.425,"endTime":1969.899,"body":"to go through these processes."},{"startTime":1969.903,"endTime":1971.699,"body":"They gotta learn to work together."},{"startTime":1971.751,"endTime":1975.542,"body":"I could tell them, Hey, you need a working"},{"startTime":1971.751,"endTime":1975.542,"body":"agreement and you all need a definition"},{"startTime":1975.542,"endTime":1976.577,"body":"of done before you put stuff out."},{"startTime":1976.581,"endTime":1979.395,"body":"And you know, this is how you should"},{"startTime":1976.581,"endTime":1979.395,"body":"go through the phases to, to decide."},{"startTime":1979.447,"endTime":1981.925,"body":"Like, I could tell 'em that, but like"},{"startTime":1979.447,"endTime":1981.925,"body":"the first time they run into any kind"},{"startTime":1981.925,"endTime":1984.69,"body":"of hurdle or obstacle, they're gonna"},{"startTime":1981.925,"endTime":1984.69,"body":"say, oh, this doesn't work for us."},{"startTime":1985.055,"endTime":1987.847,"body":"And they're gonna abandon it and"},{"startTime":1985.055,"endTime":1987.847,"body":"they'll never try it again probably."},{"startTime":1987.873,"endTime":1988.273,"body":"Right, right."},{"startTime":1988.342,"endTime":1988.812,"body":"Yeah, yeah."},{"startTime":1988.812,"endTime":1989.229,"body":"I agree."},{"startTime":1989.255,"endTime":1991.447,"body":"And they'll blame, they need to"},{"startTime":1989.255,"endTime":1991.447,"body":"own it and they'll blame you,"},{"startTime":1991.451,"endTime":1993.847,"body":"you cuz you're the Agile coach"},{"startTime":1991.451,"endTime":1993.847,"body":"who said that to do this, right?"},{"startTime":1993.847,"endTime":1994.342,"body":"Absolutely."},{"startTime":1994.473,"endTime":2000.395,"body":"So I, I think what's underlying all this"},{"startTime":1994.473,"endTime":2000.395,"body":"is they need to own the solution, right?"},{"startTime":2000.395,"endTime":2000.968,"body":"That's step two."},{"startTime":2000.968,"endTime":2003.212,"body":"Step one was they need to recognize"},{"startTime":2000.968,"endTime":2003.212,"body":"they have a problem, right?"},{"startTime":2003.264,"endTime":2004.229,"body":"You can help them with that."},{"startTime":2004.49,"endTime":2006.16,"body":"But step two is they need to own the."},{"startTime":2006.981,"endTime":2007.295,"body":", right?"},{"startTime":2007.529,"endTime":2010.947,"body":"So leading with questions is"},{"startTime":2007.529,"endTime":2010.947,"body":"an excellent way to do that."},{"startTime":2010.981,"endTime":2011.295,"body":"Mm-hmm."},{"startTime":2011.364,"endTime":2014.121,"body":". So instead of telling them oh, you should"},{"startTime":2011.364,"endTime":2014.121,"body":"have working agreements, just say, what"},{"startTime":2014.121,"endTime":2018.481,"body":"if we had a set of rules that we all"},{"startTime":2014.121,"endTime":2018.481,"body":"agree on how we're gonna work together?"},{"startTime":2018.481,"endTime":2020.125,"body":"Maybe like a social contract, right?"},{"startTime":2020.516,"endTime":2024.69,"body":"And they may ask you questions,"},{"startTime":2020.516,"endTime":2024.69,"body":"oh, well, what would be on that?"},{"startTime":2025.029,"endTime":2025.29,"body":"Right?"},{"startTime":2025.29,"endTime":2027.455,"body":"And you could potentially"},{"startTime":2025.29,"endTime":2027.455,"body":"suggest one or two things."},{"startTime":2028.081,"endTime":2030.612,"body":"Well, how about we start with"},{"startTime":2028.081,"endTime":2030.612,"body":"meeting etiquette, right?"},{"startTime":2030.612,"endTime":2031.525,"body":"We can put that on there."},{"startTime":2031.812,"endTime":2036.064,"body":"Um, like for example, no meetings after"},{"startTime":2031.812,"endTime":2036.064,"body":"4:00 PM Eastern or something like that."},{"startTime":2036.064,"endTime":2036.142,"body":"Mm-hmm."},{"startTime":2036.508,"endTime":2039.56,"body":"something that you know, that"},{"startTime":2036.508,"endTime":2039.56,"body":"it's not gonna be earth shattering"},{"startTime":2039.56,"endTime":2040.681,"body":"to them to implement that."},{"startTime":2040.708,"endTime":2040.838,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":2041.047,"endTime":2046.029,"body":"And then empower them by giving them a, a,"},{"startTime":2041.047,"endTime":2046.029,"body":"a a blank canvas and say, I ideate away."},{"startTime":2046.029,"endTime":2048.429,"body":"What would you like as your own team?"},{"startTime":2048.455,"endTime":2049.603,"body":"Internal team agreements."},{"startTime":2049.916,"endTime":2051.264,"body":"Now they own the solution."},{"startTime":2051.299,"endTime":2051.508,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":2051.508,"endTime":2056.295,"body":"Now, whenever they come up with those,"},{"startTime":2051.508,"endTime":2056.295,"body":", have them talk through those instead"},{"startTime":2056.295,"endTime":2057.416,"body":"of knocking something down, right?"},{"startTime":2057.416,"endTime":2057.495,"body":"Mm-hmm."},{"startTime":2057.686,"endTime":2060.26,"body":", because somebody's gonna come up"},{"startTime":2057.686,"endTime":2060.26,"body":"with something wacky occasionally."},{"startTime":2060.521,"endTime":2061.121,"body":"That's okay."},{"startTime":2061.434,"endTime":2062.555,"body":"It's coming from the team."},{"startTime":2062.608,"endTime":2064.095,"body":"Let the team decide what to do with it."},{"startTime":2064.46,"endTime":2066.677,"body":"so yeah, starting with"},{"startTime":2064.46,"endTime":2066.677,"body":"questions is a great way to go."},{"startTime":2066.895,"endTime":2068.703,"body":", even if it's a suggestion from you, right?"},{"startTime":2068.877,"endTime":2070.912,"body":"It shouldn't come across"},{"startTime":2068.877,"endTime":2070.912,"body":"as a mandate or an order."},{"startTime":2071.121,"endTime":2075.173,"body":"It would be along the lines of there's"},{"startTime":2071.121,"endTime":2075.173,"body":"this one way of working that I've."},{"startTime":2075.955,"endTime":2076.712,"body":"In the past."},{"startTime":2077.077,"endTime":2078.173,"body":"Do you think that might work here?"},{"startTime":2078.225,"endTime":2078.434,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":2078.512,"endTime":2078.773,"body":"Right."},{"startTime":2078.877,"endTime":2079.06,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":2079.251,"endTime":2080.964,"body":", there's always questions ask questions."},{"startTime":2080.99,"endTime":2081.199,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":2081.773,"endTime":2082.999,"body":"I want to ask you a question."},{"startTime":2083.729,"endTime":2087.964,"body":"ask me a question about asking"},{"startTime":2083.729,"endTime":2087.964,"body":"questions like I am, so do do it with"},{"startTime":2087.964,"endTime":2089.425,"body":"questions like your communication style."},{"startTime":2089.425,"endTime":2092.973,"body":"Try to shift it into a more asking"},{"startTime":2089.425,"endTime":2092.973,"body":"questions that fits completely"},{"startTime":2092.973,"endTime":2094.26,"body":"in line with projecting confide."},{"startTime":2094.847,"endTime":2097.012,"body":"Because you certainly can"},{"startTime":2094.847,"endTime":2097.012,"body":"project confidence, but like"},{"startTime":2097.195,"endTime":2099.725,"body":"I would say annoyingly project"},{"startTime":2097.195,"endTime":2099.725,"body":"confidence by asking questions."},{"startTime":2100.534,"endTime":2101.655,"body":", people are like, just gimme a solution."},{"startTime":2101.655,"endTime":2103.777,"body":"Like, well, what would it solve"},{"startTime":2101.655,"endTime":2103.777,"body":"if I just give you you can be"},{"startTime":2104.038,"endTime":2106.725,"body":"really annoying with, with, with"},{"startTime":2104.038,"endTime":2106.725,"body":"this, but projecting confidence."},{"startTime":2107.242,"endTime":2108.938,"body":"better communication skills,"},{"startTime":2107.242,"endTime":2108.938,"body":"communicating like dr."},{"startTime":2108.938,"endTime":2109.834,"body":"All that courage."},{"startTime":2110.121,"endTime":2115.434,"body":"However, the one that kind of grinds in"},{"startTime":2110.121,"endTime":2115.434,"body":"my brain is challenging through questions."},{"startTime":2116.295,"endTime":2120.303,"body":"versus projecting a vision because"},{"startTime":2116.295,"endTime":2120.303,"body":"at some point you are the leadership"},{"startTime":2120.46,"endTime":2124.347,"body":"representative of our process, but"},{"startTime":2120.46,"endTime":2124.347,"body":"now you're trying to get the teams"},{"startTime":2124.608,"endTime":2127.216,"body":"to align a certain agile concepts."},{"startTime":2127.216,"endTime":2129.486,"body":"I'll say, well, I'll call 'em"},{"startTime":2127.216,"endTime":2129.486,"body":"concepts, values, principles, whatever."},{"startTime":2129.616,"endTime":2132.773,"body":", so you kind of know which"},{"startTime":2129.616,"endTime":2132.773,"body":"direction they should be moving,"},{"startTime":2133.242,"endTime":2134.39,"body":"and you're projecting a vision."},{"startTime":2134.86,"endTime":2135.486,"body":"for the future."},{"startTime":2135.564,"endTime":2138.581,"body":"So how do you, like a vision is"},{"startTime":2135.564,"endTime":2138.581,"body":"like telling, unless you're getting"},{"startTime":2138.868,"endTime":2141.634,"body":"everyone together to work through a"},{"startTime":2138.868,"endTime":2141.634,"body":"vision together, which even in that"},{"startTime":2141.634,"endTime":2143.634,"body":"case you'll still kind of be Yeah."},{"startTime":2143.638,"endTime":2146.747,"body":"Suggesting like so how do you"},{"startTime":2143.638,"endTime":2146.747,"body":"consolidate asking questions"},{"startTime":2146.747,"endTime":2148.703,"body":"with your projecting of a vision?"},{"startTime":2149.408,"endTime":2150.008,"body":"Great question."},{"startTime":2150.008,"endTime":2152.642,"body":"So first of all, let's just"},{"startTime":2150.008,"endTime":2152.642,"body":"make the difference clear."},{"startTime":2153.477,"endTime":2156.764,"body":"The, the difference between projecting"},{"startTime":2153.477,"endTime":2156.764,"body":"a vision from a process perspective."},{"startTime":2156.842,"endTime":2156.973,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":2157.086,"endTime":2160.599,"body":"as opposed to coming out with a product"},{"startTime":2157.086,"endTime":2160.599,"body":"vision, that's a different thing, right?"},{"startTime":2160.651,"endTime":2160.729,"body":"Mm-hmm."},{"startTime":2160.942,"endTime":2163.834,"body":", because that needs to be"},{"startTime":2160.942,"endTime":2163.834,"body":"ideated among various people."},{"startTime":2164.06,"endTime":2168.129,"body":", as far as the process vision, if you have"},{"startTime":2164.06,"endTime":2168.129,"body":"that in your mind, you need to be very"},{"startTime":2168.129,"endTime":2170.034,"body":"clear about showing people what that is."},{"startTime":2170.19,"endTime":2173.529,"body":"You're not, this is not up for"},{"startTime":2170.19,"endTime":2173.529,"body":"debate at that point, necessarily."},{"startTime":2174.025,"endTime":2174.842,"body":"What you can do is this."},{"startTime":2175.042,"endTime":2176.764,"body":"You can say, we're."},{"startTime":2177.69,"endTime":2179.255,"body":"We want to be here, right?"},{"startTime":2179.829,"endTime":2181.786,"body":"So it tells people where"},{"startTime":2179.829,"endTime":2181.786,"body":"you want to try and get to."},{"startTime":2182.047,"endTime":2185.334,"body":"Now you put in some stepping stones"},{"startTime":2182.047,"endTime":2185.334,"body":"along the way, and you say, in order to"},{"startTime":2185.334,"endTime":2187.212,"body":"get there, we need to get to this first."},{"startTime":2188.012,"endTime":2189.221,"body":"S you know, marker, if you will."},{"startTime":2189.264,"endTime":2189.612,"body":"Mm-hmm."},{"startTime":2190.264,"endTime":2191.308,"body":", how do you think we can get there?"},{"startTime":2191.334,"endTime":2193.708,"body":"That's a different question"},{"startTime":2191.334,"endTime":2193.708,"body":"than what's our vision?"},{"startTime":2194.177,"endTime":2194.725,"body":"Right?"},{"startTime":2194.855,"endTime":2195.768,"body":"They already know the vision."},{"startTime":2196.029,"endTime":2196.108,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":2196.108,"endTime":2196.838,"body":"They already know that."},{"startTime":2196.838,"endTime":2199.668,"body":"And you've already put some"},{"startTime":2196.838,"endTime":2199.668,"body":"dots in, uh that say we need to"},{"startTime":2199.668,"endTime":2200.79,"body":"do this, this, this, do this."},{"startTime":2200.79,"endTime":2201.025,"body":"Right."},{"startTime":2201.025,"endTime":2201.781,"body":"In order to get there mm-hmm."},{"startTime":2202.042,"endTime":2205.042,"body":", but you're not now dictating to"},{"startTime":2202.042,"endTime":2205.042,"body":"them how they should do that."},{"startTime":2205.199,"endTime":2208.408,"body":"By asking the question, what do we"},{"startTime":2205.199,"endTime":2208.408,"body":"need to do in order for us to get"},{"startTime":2208.408,"endTime":2211.016,"body":"from where we are today to this first."},{"startTime":2212.099,"endTime":2213.247,"body":"you know, mile marker if you will."},{"startTime":2213.251,"endTime":2213.455,"body":"Right?"},{"startTime":2213.455,"endTime":2213.508,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":2213.951,"endTime":2217.655,"body":"What are some of the things we can"},{"startTime":2213.951,"endTime":2217.655,"body":"do to get there that's questioning"},{"startTime":2217.708,"endTime":2220.995,"body":"the team about coming up with"},{"startTime":2217.708,"endTime":2220.995,"body":"brainstorming ideas, et cetera."},{"startTime":2220.995,"endTime":2223.186,"body":"That's not necessarily dictating,"},{"startTime":2220.995,"endTime":2223.186,"body":"but that's telling them what"},{"startTime":2223.186,"endTime":2224.281,"body":"the vision is upfront though."},{"startTime":2224.36,"endTime":2224.438,"body":"Mm-hmm."},{"startTime":2224.647,"endTime":2227.151,"body":". So they're trying to come up"},{"startTime":2224.647,"endTime":2227.151,"body":"with suggestions and solutions"},{"startTime":2227.151,"endTime":2228.612,"body":"that fulfill that vision."},{"startTime":2229.108,"endTime":2232.395,"body":"So yeah, I, I'd say be very clear about"},{"startTime":2229.108,"endTime":2232.395,"body":"projecting confidence on the vision."},{"startTime":2232.395,"endTime":2233.099,"body":"You own that."},{"startTime":2233.099,"endTime":2233.412,"body":"Mm-hmm."},{"startTime":2233.481,"endTime":2234.716,"body":", you need them to own it first."},{"startTime":2234.716,"endTime":2235.786,"body":"You've gotta communicate it."},{"startTime":2235.855,"endTime":2236.664,"body":"Give them the why,."},{"startTime":2237.012,"endTime":2238.451,"body":"And never forget the WIIFMs."},{"startTime":2238.473,"endTime":2238.512,"body":"Right?"},{"startTime":2238.512,"endTime":2239.268,"body":"What's in it for me?"},{"startTime":2239.268,"endTime":2239.581,"body":"Mm-hmm."},{"startTime":2240.051,"endTime":2243.495,"body":". Tell, tell the teams why by"},{"startTime":2240.051,"endTime":2243.495,"body":"doing things a certain way, we'll"},{"startTime":2243.495,"endTime":2245.425,"body":"avoid , weekend deployments."},{"startTime":2245.451,"endTime":2245.608,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":2245.634,"endTime":2246.495,"body":"Wouldn't that be better for you?"},{"startTime":2246.495,"endTime":2246.677,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":2246.729,"endTime":2246.964,"body":"Right."},{"startTime":2247.051,"endTime":2247.399,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":2247.403,"endTime":2247.512,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":2247.538,"endTime":2249.808,"body":"It, it's always about"},{"startTime":2247.538,"endTime":2249.808,"body":"fulfilling the, the WIFFMs"},{"startTime":2249.964,"endTime":2253.008,"body":"I don't really see a difference"},{"startTime":2249.964,"endTime":2253.008,"body":"between projecting a product vision"},{"startTime":2253.503,"endTime":2256.034,"body":"and projecting a process vision."},{"startTime":2256.034,"endTime":2259.199,"body":"Like this is a lot of the steps"},{"startTime":2256.034,"endTime":2259.199,"body":"actually are very similar to me."},{"startTime":2259.564,"endTime":2260.216,"body":"That's similar."},{"startTime":2260.26,"endTime":2262.738,"body":"I guess with the product vision,"},{"startTime":2260.26,"endTime":2262.738,"body":"I was thinking you might actually"},{"startTime":2262.738,"endTime":2266.025,"body":"get some feedback in from"},{"startTime":2262.738,"endTime":2266.025,"body":"maybe even customers I process."},{"startTime":2266.025,"endTime":2267.095,"body":"I think the same thing with process."},{"startTime":2267.138,"endTime":2271.677,"body":"If your process vision has you"},{"startTime":2267.138,"endTime":2271.677,"body":"transitioning from sending out random"},{"startTime":2271.677,"endTime":2274.834,"body":"release notes to random people or"},{"startTime":2271.677,"endTime":2274.834,"body":"whatever, now you're gonna find"},{"startTime":2274.877,"endTime":2278.399,"body":"someone from your customer base that"},{"startTime":2274.877,"endTime":2278.399,"body":"is representative of that persona."},{"startTime":2278.425,"endTime":2278.529,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":2278.581,"endTime":2280.851,"body":"To present the work to, every"},{"startTime":2278.581,"endTime":2280.851,"body":"time a segment of work is done,"},{"startTime":2280.851,"endTime":2282.912,"body":"whatever that segment, that feature"},{"startTime":2280.851,"endTime":2282.912,"body":"story doesn't really matter."},{"startTime":2283.121,"endTime":2287.164,"body":"The point is, the point is the, the"},{"startTime":2283.121,"endTime":2287.164,"body":"where that wraps back up, rolls back up."},{"startTime":2287.168,"endTime":2287.873,"body":"Rolls back up."},{"startTime":2288.812,"endTime":2289.073,"body":"What?"},{"startTime":2289.073,"endTime":2291.003,"body":"I'm like terrible analogies all day long."},{"startTime":2291.003,"endTime":2291.942,"body":"You need a terrible analogy."},{"startTime":2291.942,"endTime":2293.142,"body":"I got a terrible analogy for you."},{"startTime":2293.142,"endTime":2293.716,"body":"That's my vision."},{"startTime":2293.716,"endTime":2295.125,"body":"Not terrible analogies all in the podcast."},{"startTime":2295.386,"endTime":2299.116,"body":"When, whenever that connects"},{"startTime":2295.386,"endTime":2299.116,"body":"to an upstream item Yeah."},{"startTime":2299.121,"endTime":2299.742,"body":"That we've developed."},{"startTime":2299.934,"endTime":2302.125,"body":"I'm gonna bring in a"},{"startTime":2299.934,"endTime":2302.125,"body":"customer and, and connect it."},{"startTime":2302.699,"endTime":2303.116,"body":"No doubt."},{"startTime":2303.168,"endTime":2303.629,"body":"No doubt."},{"startTime":2303.629,"endTime":2305.995,"body":"So there are more similarities than"},{"startTime":2303.629,"endTime":2305.995,"body":"difference is what we're saying here."},{"startTime":2305.995,"endTime":2306.168,"body":"Mm-hmm."},{"startTime":2306.238,"endTime":2306.612,"body":". And I agree with that."},{"startTime":2306.612,"endTime":2306.847,"body":"I think."},{"startTime":2307.495,"endTime":2311.216,"body":"I just think that with a product vision,"},{"startTime":2307.495,"endTime":2311.216,"body":"somebody doesn't walk into a room and"},{"startTime":2311.216,"endTime":2313.486,"body":"say, this is how our product looks."},{"startTime":2313.668,"endTime":2317.138,"body":"They might, they might , but then"},{"startTime":2313.668,"endTime":2317.138,"body":"they're blocking out all these sources."},{"startTime":2317.608,"endTime":2318.416,"body":"Not at my companies."},{"startTime":2318.416,"endTime":2318.781,"body":"They don't"},{"startTime":2322.277,"endTime":2324.938,"body":"Yeah, because I'd be like,"},{"startTime":2322.277,"endTime":2324.938,"body":"get outta my room, . Exactly."},{"startTime":2324.938,"endTime":2325.486,"body":"Exactly."},{"startTime":2325.593,"endTime":2327.88,"body":"So sometimes the best"},{"startTime":2325.593,"endTime":2327.88,"body":"ideas come from people."},{"startTime":2328.297,"endTime":2329.81,"body":"Speak very little on the teams."},{"startTime":2329.81,"endTime":2330.097,"body":"Right?"},{"startTime":2330.102,"endTime":2330.219,"body":"Right."},{"startTime":2330.224,"endTime":2330.306,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":2330.306,"endTime":2332.671,"body":"Um, so you just need to make"},{"startTime":2330.306,"endTime":2332.671,"body":"sure they have the opportunity to"},{"startTime":2332.671,"endTime":2334.21,"body":"do that and, and seek that out."},{"startTime":2334.658,"endTime":2337.693,"body":"for a podcast that I didn't really"},{"startTime":2334.658,"endTime":2337.693,"body":"think we were gonna get much out of"},{"startTime":2337.789,"endTime":2338.858,"body":"we ended up going really, really deep."},{"startTime":2338.989,"endTime":2342.693,"body":"The idea is, if you wanna be a"},{"startTime":2338.989,"endTime":2342.693,"body":"better agile coach or scrum master"},{"startTime":2343.006,"endTime":2345.406,"body":"let's develop a vision of where you,"},{"startTime":2343.006,"endTime":2345.406,"body":"what the future looks like for you."},{"startTime":2345.432,"endTime":2345.745,"body":"Right?"},{"startTime":2345.797,"endTime":2349.189,"body":"So you are living in the moment, but"},{"startTime":2345.797,"endTime":2349.189,"body":"then everything in the, and everything"},{"startTime":2349.189,"endTime":2350.91,"body":"in the future you're projecting towards."},{"startTime":2351.171,"endTime":2351.406,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":2351.419,"endTime":2353.689,"body":"You have the courage to deal with all"},{"startTime":2351.419,"endTime":2353.689,"body":"the problems that you're dealing with."},{"startTime":2354.393,"endTime":2357.732,"body":"You are communicating, having"},{"startTime":2354.393,"endTime":2357.732,"body":"the courage to communicate,"},{"startTime":2357.732,"endTime":2358.697,"body":"and you're communicating your."},{"startTime":2360.224,"endTime":2363.041,"body":"You're projecting confidence in the last"},{"startTime":2360.224,"endTime":2363.041,"body":"three categories, and I mean project"},{"startTime":2363.093,"endTime":2366.354,"body":"confidence in your vision, confidence"},{"startTime":2363.093,"endTime":2366.354,"body":"in your communication method, and in"},{"startTime":2366.358,"endTime":2367.997,"body":"in your ability to engage on topics."},{"startTime":2368.28,"endTime":2373.471,"body":"And then , your communication style in, in"},{"startTime":2368.28,"endTime":2373.471,"body":"all the above is a more collaborative one."},{"startTime":2373.524,"endTime":2373.967,"body":"Oh, yep."},{"startTime":2373.993,"endTime":2375.924,"body":"I used the word collaborative,"},{"startTime":2373.993,"endTime":2375.924,"body":"a more collaborative one."},{"startTime":2375.967,"endTime":2380.532,"body":"Where you are asking questions to"},{"startTime":2375.967,"endTime":2380.532,"body":"bring people in to your thinking?"},{"startTime":2381.289,"endTime":2381.341,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":2381.341,"endTime":2382.071,"body":"That's a great summary."},{"startTime":2382.071,"endTime":2385.306,"body":"I think, I mean, the only thing"},{"startTime":2382.071,"endTime":2385.306,"body":"I'll say is the, your communication."},{"startTime":2386.337,"endTime":2388.606,"body":"Is not just one style."},{"startTime":2388.632,"endTime":2388.945,"body":"Right."},{"startTime":2389.206,"endTime":2391.945,"body":"It, it's basically gonna be"},{"startTime":2389.206,"endTime":2391.945,"body":"different based on not only who"},{"startTime":2391.945,"endTime":2392.884,"body":"you're communicating with, right."},{"startTime":2392.889,"endTime":2393.807,"body":"Who the target audience is."},{"startTime":2393.811,"endTime":2393.876,"body":"Right."},{"startTime":2394.137,"endTime":2395.18,"body":"But the circumstances."},{"startTime":2395.224,"endTime":2395.715,"body":"All right."},{"startTime":2395.715,"endTime":2398.976,"body":"Well, let us know what you think"},{"startTime":2395.715,"endTime":2398.976,"body":"and don't forget to comment down"},{"startTime":2398.98,"endTime":2401.115,"body":"below and like, and subscribe."}]}