{"version":"1.0.0","segments":[{"startTime":0.0,"endTime":3.228,"body":"If you have imposter syndrome and"},{"startTime":0.0,"endTime":3.228,"body":"you're a product owner or a product"},{"startTime":3.233,"endTime":5.114,"body":"manager, this is a podcast for you."},{"startTime":5.28,"endTime":7.194,"body":"I don't often look directly in the camera"},{"startTime":8.017,"endTime":9.76,"body":"let's talk about why you"},{"startTime":8.017,"endTime":9.76,"body":"have imposter syndrome."},{"startTime":9.76,"endTime":11.732,"body":"Let's talk about what"},{"startTime":9.76,"endTime":11.732,"body":"you can do to get over."},{"startTime":11.955,"endTime":12.727,"body":"Imposter syndrome."},{"startTime":12.727,"endTime":15.622,"body":"And I think the first thing that"},{"startTime":12.727,"endTime":15.622,"body":"sticks out in my mind about getting"},{"startTime":15.622,"endTime":20.438,"body":"over, getting or over around, imposter"},{"startTime":15.622,"endTime":20.438,"body":"syndrome is, dealing with empowerment."},{"startTime":20.495,"endTime":20.581,"body":"Mm-hmm."},{"startTime":20.981,"endTime":25.117,"body":", like actually being empowered with"},{"startTime":20.981,"endTime":25.117,"body":"product owner responsibilities does"},{"startTime":25.117,"endTime":28.982,"body":"a lot to actually get you over  the"},{"startTime":25.117,"endTime":28.982,"body":"feeling of imposter syndrome."},{"startTime":29.154,"endTime":32.725,"body":"If I was a product manager at a feature"},{"startTime":29.154,"endTime":32.725,"body":"factory where I'm just like fed like"},{"startTime":32.725,"endTime":36.87,"body":"sales feeds me things and executives feed"},{"startTime":32.725,"endTime":36.87,"body":"me things that, that would be one thing."},{"startTime":37.108,"endTime":40.784,"body":"cuz then you're always guessing where"},{"startTime":37.108,"endTime":40.784,"body":"your next meal's gonna come from and, I'm"},{"startTime":40.784,"endTime":42.051,"body":"just like, you're living on the street."},{"startTime":42.051,"endTime":42.679,"body":"That's what I'm saying."},{"startTime":42.813,"endTime":43.155,"body":"Right."},{"startTime":43.305,"endTime":49.905,"body":"if you actually are empowered to figure"},{"startTime":43.305,"endTime":49.905,"body":"out solutions and prove or disprove why"},{"startTime":49.905,"endTime":54.295,"body":"things will or won't work I think where"},{"startTime":49.905,"endTime":54.295,"body":"I'm going with this long-winded summary,"},{"startTime":54.533,"endTime":58.276,"body":"I think where I'm going with this is if"},{"startTime":54.533,"endTime":58.276,"body":"you have the ability to ask, like what"},{"startTime":58.276,"endTime":62.133,"body":"makes you think we should implement"},{"startTime":58.276,"endTime":62.133,"body":"that feature and you don't get fired for"},{"startTime":62.133,"endTime":63.848,"body":"asking that, I think you're pretty good."},{"startTime":64.095,"endTime":64.238,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":64.238,"endTime":68.029,"body":"I think some of that, kind of blends into"},{"startTime":64.238,"endTime":68.029,"body":"product discovery and things like that."},{"startTime":68.029,"endTime":68.371,"body":"But Sure."},{"startTime":68.429,"endTime":70.057,"body":"You have to be empowered to your point."},{"startTime":70.057,"endTime":70.248,"body":"Right."},{"startTime":70.771,"endTime":74.295,"body":"and, and leading without authority"},{"startTime":70.771,"endTime":74.295,"body":"can also, , I think gets into this."},{"startTime":74.295,"endTime":76.895,"body":"It doesn't matter what role you have,"},{"startTime":74.295,"endTime":76.895,"body":"but specifically if you're product"},{"startTime":76.895,"endTime":81.467,"body":"owners and product managers, more"},{"startTime":76.895,"endTime":81.467,"body":"so, if you have no authority, , the"},{"startTime":81.467,"endTime":84.467,"body":"real authority that you know, you"},{"startTime":81.467,"endTime":84.467,"body":"can go out and talk to customers."},{"startTime":84.471,"endTime":88.495,"body":"You can bring their feedback in, figure"},{"startTime":84.471,"endTime":88.495,"body":"out the, the why and then the what."},{"startTime":88.867,"endTime":91.952,"body":"If you don't have that, yeah, you"},{"startTime":88.867,"endTime":91.952,"body":"may have imposter syndrome because"},{"startTime":91.952,"endTime":93.438,"body":"you're always in self-doubt."},{"startTime":93.645,"endTime":98.921,"body":"So yes, potentially, but, you don't"},{"startTime":93.645,"endTime":98.921,"body":"necessarily have to have that in,"},{"startTime":98.926,"endTime":101.75,"body":"in place to have imposter syndrome."},{"startTime":101.75,"endTime":104.969,"body":"I think you can, you can be"},{"startTime":101.75,"endTime":104.969,"body":"empowered at least to some degree"},{"startTime":104.969,"endTime":106.311,"body":"and still have imposter syndrome."},{"startTime":106.666,"endTime":107.4,"body":"you think?"},{"startTime":107.405,"endTime":107.771,"body":"You think so?"},{"startTime":108.235,"endTime":109.578,"body":"yes, I do."},{"startTime":109.95,"endTime":113.102,"body":"I was gonna quibble with the,"},{"startTime":109.95,"endTime":113.102,"body":"the, the word, um oh boy."},{"startTime":113.102,"endTime":114.359,"body":"I, I forgot the word now."},{"startTime":114.569,"endTime":117.711,"body":"You didn't say accountable or"},{"startTime":114.569,"endTime":117.711,"body":"responsible, you said you have"},{"startTime":117.711,"endTime":118.883,"body":"authority or something like that."},{"startTime":118.883,"endTime":119.197,"body":"Authority."},{"startTime":119.197,"endTime":119.397,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":119.397,"endTime":120.369,"body":"Leading without authority."},{"startTime":120.426,"endTime":121.311,"body":"Yeah, leading, yeah."},{"startTime":121.316,"endTime":121.54,"body":"Authority."},{"startTime":121.545,"endTime":123.74,"body":"And, and, and I was gonna"},{"startTime":121.545,"endTime":123.74,"body":"push back against authority."},{"startTime":123.816,"endTime":126.883,"body":"Like, I don't necessarily think you need"},{"startTime":123.816,"endTime":126.883,"body":"authority in any way, shape or form."},{"startTime":126.902,"endTime":129.711,"body":"I, I think you need empowerment"},{"startTime":126.902,"endTime":129.711,"body":"to say, Hey, you can talk to"},{"startTime":129.711,"endTime":130.683,"body":"customers whenever you want."},{"startTime":131.311,"endTime":136.626,"body":", you can uh, as long as you prove"},{"startTime":131.311,"endTime":136.626,"body":"or disprove your experiments."},{"startTime":136.673,"endTime":139.473,"body":"And as long as you're showing"},{"startTime":136.673,"endTime":139.473,"body":"evidence along the way, b basically an"},{"startTime":139.473,"endTime":141.159,"body":"experiment, log along the way mm-hmm."},{"startTime":141.426,"endTime":143.165,"body":"Then we're gonna trust you."},{"startTime":143.17,"endTime":147.592,"body":"Cause you're, we, we empowered"},{"startTime":143.17,"endTime":147.592,"body":"this piece of the business to you."},{"startTime":148.535,"endTime":152.411,"body":"I guess I'm trying to talk myself"},{"startTime":148.535,"endTime":152.411,"body":"into agreeing with you, stormy."},{"startTime":152.526,"endTime":152.84,"body":"Okay."},{"startTime":153.411,"endTime":156.097,"body":"Because if you're empowered with that"},{"startTime":153.411,"endTime":156.097,"body":"piece of the business, I guess you could"},{"startTime":156.102,"endTime":162.326,"body":"still feel that like now everybody's"},{"startTime":156.102,"endTime":162.326,"body":"counting on me, and now that is gonna"},{"startTime":162.326,"endTime":163.869,"body":"lead itself into a positive syndrome."},{"startTime":163.869,"endTime":163.983,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":163.983,"endTime":164.869,"body":"I, I could see that."},{"startTime":165.126,"endTime":168.326,"body":"Even, even if you're doing good"},{"startTime":165.126,"endTime":168.326,"body":"things, like even if you're"},{"startTime":168.331,"endTime":169.84,"body":"having positive results Yeah."},{"startTime":169.954,"endTime":170.04,"body":"Mm-hmm."},{"startTime":170.269,"endTime":173.754,"body":", you're still, there's that,"},{"startTime":170.269,"endTime":173.754,"body":"that, that potential for that"},{"startTime":173.754,"endTime":175.554,"body":"the, that feeling of inadequacy."},{"startTime":175.607,"endTime":178.721,"body":"Yeah, I, I would stand pretty firmly"},{"startTime":175.607,"endTime":178.721,"body":"on that belief that that imposter"},{"startTime":178.726,"endTime":182.007,"body":"syndrome can happen with or without"},{"startTime":178.726,"endTime":182.007,"body":"empowerment, may be more prevalent."},{"startTime":182.692,"endTime":183.407,"body":"I'm trying to think."},{"startTime":183.883,"endTime":186.826,"body":"I almost think, I almost wonder if"},{"startTime":183.883,"endTime":186.826,"body":"this would go both ways, whether it be"},{"startTime":186.826,"endTime":190.288,"body":"more prevalent if you're not empowered"},{"startTime":186.826,"endTime":190.288,"body":"or if you are empowered, if you feel."},{"startTime":191.031,"endTime":191.659,"body":"Pressured."},{"startTime":191.659,"endTime":195.259,"body":"And you might even be more"},{"startTime":191.659,"endTime":195.259,"body":"apt to feel inadequate."},{"startTime":195.307,"endTime":201.235,"body":"If you actually are empowered, like hey"},{"startTime":195.307,"endTime":201.235,"body":"stormy I have this product uh, X product."},{"startTime":201.235,"endTime":201.578,"body":"Zed."},{"startTime":201.635,"endTime":202.264,"body":"I like saying Zed."},{"startTime":202.359,"endTime":202.626,"body":"Zed."},{"startTime":202.864,"endTime":203.292,"body":"Zeds a good word."},{"startTime":203.416,"endTime":204.464,"body":"I I have product Zed."},{"startTime":204.511,"endTime":206.997,"body":"I'm the owner of the company, founder"},{"startTime":204.511,"endTime":206.997,"body":"of the company, ceo, whatever."},{"startTime":207.369,"endTime":211.831,"body":"I'm like I've technically am in charge of"},{"startTime":207.369,"endTime":211.831,"body":"product Zed but I got other things to do."},{"startTime":211.907,"endTime":213.392,"body":"You are in charge of product Zed now."},{"startTime":213.678,"endTime":219.05,"body":"And I'm out like when you, when you"},{"startTime":213.678,"endTime":219.05,"body":"need me for expertise or you need me for"},{"startTime":219.221,"endTime":222.364,"body":"leadership or whatever to make a call"},{"startTime":219.221,"endTime":222.364,"body":"in case you're not sure or whatever."},{"startTime":222.364,"endTime":222.45,"body":"Mm-hmm."},{"startTime":222.678,"endTime":223.221,"body":", come get me."},{"startTime":223.221,"endTime":224.792,"body":"Other than that, I"},{"startTime":223.221,"endTime":224.792,"body":"don't even want to know."},{"startTime":224.792,"endTime":225.964,"body":"I don't want to, I don't wanna look at it."},{"startTime":226.192,"endTime":226.45,"body":"Whatever."},{"startTime":226.64,"endTime":228.192,"body":"Well, don't You want to check"},{"startTime":226.64,"endTime":228.192,"body":"the roadmap or whatever?"},{"startTime":228.307,"endTime":228.764,"body":"Nope."},{"startTime":228.878,"endTime":231.535,"body":"Don't want to do that either, cuz I'm"},{"startTime":228.878,"endTime":231.535,"body":"really busy with the rest of the business."},{"startTime":231.583,"endTime":235.097,"body":"I could totally see where you feel"},{"startTime":231.583,"endTime":235.097,"body":"like you're, whoa, what do I like?"},{"startTime":235.097,"endTime":236.269,"body":"I'm in the middle of the ocean."},{"startTime":236.411,"endTime":236.783,"body":"Yes."},{"startTime":236.869,"endTime":239.326,"body":"With, with no piece of wood"},{"startTime":236.869,"endTime":239.326,"body":"or life raft or anything."},{"startTime":239.326,"endTime":242.107,"body":"And I'm just swimming and"},{"startTime":239.326,"endTime":242.107,"body":"that like, , it's ocean."},{"startTime":242.111,"endTime":244.392,"body":"Everywhere I look like, what do I do?"},{"startTime":244.421,"endTime":245.25,"body":"I could see that."},{"startTime":245.345,"endTime":247.697,"body":"I think that you described"},{"startTime":245.345,"endTime":247.697,"body":"it very perfectly."},{"startTime":247.754,"endTime":251.326,"body":"I think it, I think it's way"},{"startTime":247.754,"endTime":251.326,"body":"worse when you're not empowered."},{"startTime":251.469,"endTime":254.354,"body":"I think that wondering if"},{"startTime":251.469,"endTime":254.354,"body":"you're even making a difference."},{"startTime":254.359,"endTime":254.611,"body":"Mm-hmm."},{"startTime":254.897,"endTime":256.14,"body":"Uh I, I could argue both sides."},{"startTime":256.145,"endTime":259.083,"body":"That's, that's, that's the interesting"},{"startTime":256.145,"endTime":259.083,"body":"part of this to me is I could argue"},{"startTime":259.088,"endTime":262.94,"body":"the side of if you're just constantly"},{"startTime":259.088,"endTime":262.94,"body":"being told what to do, hey, just"},{"startTime":262.94,"endTime":266.283,"body":"relax, cash out, take the input."},{"startTime":266.997,"endTime":269.903,"body":"Know that you're making people"},{"startTime":266.997,"endTime":269.903,"body":"happy with their deadlines that"},{"startTime":269.908,"endTime":271.254,"body":"are all in the past, by the way."},{"startTime":271.254,"endTime":273.507,"body":"Cause that's the only when"},{"startTime":271.254,"endTime":273.507,"body":"you're in that culture, everyone"},{"startTime":273.507,"endTime":274.735,"body":"brings you deadlines in the past."},{"startTime":274.907,"endTime":280.335,"body":"So you're constantly disappointing people"},{"startTime":274.907,"endTime":280.335,"body":"by succeeding, by the way, but I could"},{"startTime":280.335,"endTime":283.931,"body":"totally see the panacea of everyone"},{"startTime":280.335,"endTime":283.931,"body":"just tells me what they wanted to do,"},{"startTime":284.016,"endTime":287.102,"body":"and then I don't have any imposter"},{"startTime":284.016,"endTime":287.102,"body":"syndrome at all because I'm just taking"},{"startTime":287.102,"endTime":290.559,"body":"request number one and implementing a"},{"startTime":287.102,"endTime":290.559,"body":"request number one, and taking request"},{"startTime":290.559,"endTime":293.702,"body":"number two and oh, oh, request number"},{"startTime":290.559,"endTime":293.702,"body":"three came in is higher than two."},{"startTime":293.702,"endTime":294.959,"body":"Oh, stop working on two."},{"startTime":295.245,"endTime":295.816,"body":"Work on three."},{"startTime":296.321,"endTime":298.321,"body":"You're just a backlog"},{"startTime":296.321,"endTime":298.321,"body":"person at that point."},{"startTime":298.635,"endTime":298.721,"body":"Mm-hmm."},{"startTime":298.95,"endTime":299.321,"body":", really?"},{"startTime":299.864,"endTime":304.464,"body":"But what if you are a really good backlog"},{"startTime":299.864,"endTime":304.464,"body":"administrator, or you think you are?"},{"startTime":304.778,"endTime":306.892,"body":"You know, or maybe you are,"},{"startTime":304.778,"endTime":306.892,"body":"but that's all you're doing."},{"startTime":306.897,"endTime":307.578,"body":"Really, really."},{"startTime":307.583,"endTime":308.35,"body":"And you're really good at it."},{"startTime":308.407,"endTime":310.835,"body":"Really good until they"},{"startTime":308.407,"endTime":310.835,"body":"eliminate your whole division."},{"startTime":311.345,"endTime":311.607,"body":"right?"},{"startTime":312.626,"endTime":312.94,"body":"All right."},{"startTime":312.94,"endTime":315.826,"body":"You have imposter syndrome"},{"startTime":312.94,"endTime":315.826,"body":"for whatever it's worth."},{"startTime":315.854,"endTime":319.683,"body":"You have it whether you have empowerment"},{"startTime":315.854,"endTime":319.683,"body":"or you don't have empowerment."},{"startTime":320.569,"endTime":321.169,"body":"You have it now."},{"startTime":321.169,"endTime":321.369,"body":"What?"},{"startTime":321.854,"endTime":322.083,"body":"Okay."},{"startTime":322.083,"endTime":322.911,"body":"How do you deal with that?"},{"startTime":322.911,"endTime":327.131,"body":"Well, we can't, well, my,"},{"startTime":322.911,"endTime":327.131,"body":"my, my proposition was you"},{"startTime":327.607,"endTime":328.816,"body":"actually need to be empowered."},{"startTime":328.911,"endTime":330.797,"body":"No one thing is gonna get you over there."},{"startTime":330.802,"endTime":332.15,"body":"Over, over the hill."},{"startTime":332.15,"endTime":332.531,"body":"Mm-hmm."},{"startTime":332.759,"endTime":333.711,"body":". Over the . Yeah."},{"startTime":333.711,"endTime":334.94,"body":"What a terrible Over the hurdle."},{"startTime":334.997,"endTime":336.34,"body":"Over the hurdle, over the hurdles."},{"startTime":337.059,"endTime":337.973,"body":"Oh man."},{"startTime":338.231,"endTime":338.945,"body":"Terrible today."},{"startTime":339.04,"endTime":341.64,"body":"No one thing is going to"},{"startTime":339.04,"endTime":341.64,"body":"be a home run for you."},{"startTime":341.64,"endTime":342.326,"body":"There we go."},{"startTime":342.44,"endTime":344.811,"body":"Oh, go sports analogies."},{"startTime":345.021,"endTime":346.307,"body":"No one thing is gonna do it."},{"startTime":346.669,"endTime":347.202,"body":". I don't know."},{"startTime":347.364,"endTime":349.478,"body":"I mean, I've given up now"},{"startTime":347.364,"endTime":349.478,"body":"totally trying to make my point."},{"startTime":349.792,"endTime":350.678,"body":"No one thing is gonna do it."},{"startTime":350.678,"endTime":352.821,"body":"It's gonna be many little things together."},{"startTime":353.188,"endTime":355.531,"body":"That gets you over"},{"startTime":353.188,"endTime":355.531,"body":"feeling imposter syndrome."},{"startTime":356.254,"endTime":359.045,"body":"When we started this, we talked"},{"startTime":356.254,"endTime":359.045,"body":"about there's just a certain amount"},{"startTime":359.045,"endTime":362.045,"body":"of time when you start working at"},{"startTime":359.045,"endTime":362.045,"body":"a company for the first time that"},{"startTime":362.045,"endTime":363.988,"body":"there's nothing's gonna fill that void."},{"startTime":364.845,"endTime":364.854,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":365.159,"endTime":366.988,"body":"Like you just, you know that you"},{"startTime":365.159,"endTime":366.988,"body":"don't know anything about that."},{"startTime":366.988,"endTime":370.588,"body":"Like, especially if you enter as a"},{"startTime":366.988,"endTime":370.588,"body":"product manager with no domain expertise,"},{"startTime":370.664,"endTime":372.44,"body":"now you're really playing catch up."},{"startTime":372.44,"endTime":374.726,"body":"You gotta learn the software, you"},{"startTime":372.44,"endTime":374.726,"body":"gotta learn the customers and you"},{"startTime":374.726,"endTime":375.697,"body":"gotta learn the business domain."},{"startTime":376.173,"endTime":376.802,"body":"Just Yeah."},{"startTime":376.802,"endTime":379.716,"body":"Stock upon that zantac, the German"},{"startTime":376.802,"endTime":379.716,"body":"three, that's what that was."},{"startTime":379.807,"endTime":380.431,"body":"three things."},{"startTime":380.478,"endTime":383.231,"body":"You get the new the new person passing."},{"startTime":383.231,"endTime":386.535,"body":"You can you wanna, you, you wanna milk"},{"startTime":383.231,"endTime":386.535,"body":"that for as long as you can, right?"},{"startTime":386.535,"endTime":386.621,"body":"Sure."},{"startTime":386.621,"endTime":391.773,"body":"And that will, I think keep imposter"},{"startTime":386.621,"endTime":391.773,"body":"syndrome at bay for a little while."},{"startTime":391.783,"endTime":392.202,"body":"Mm-hmm."},{"startTime":392.278,"endTime":392.469,"body":", right?"},{"startTime":392.473,"endTime":394.488,"body":"You can kick that can, right."},{"startTime":394.631,"endTime":398.631,"body":"But then you come to the point, and then"},{"startTime":394.631,"endTime":398.631,"body":"to your point, particularly maybe you're"},{"startTime":398.631,"endTime":401.688,"body":"coming into a new industry, maybe you're"},{"startTime":398.631,"endTime":401.688,"body":"coming into a product you're not familiar"},{"startTime":401.688,"endTime":402.973,"body":"with and you don't have the domain."},{"startTime":403.116,"endTime":406.059,"body":"So you have a huge hurdle to overcome."},{"startTime":406.116,"endTime":407.173,"body":"A lot of learning."},{"startTime":407.602,"endTime":411.059,"body":"And you get to be newbie and not know"},{"startTime":407.602,"endTime":411.059,"body":"what you're doing and not be able not"},{"startTime":411.231,"endTime":415.326,"body":"have to fulfill requests and, and,"},{"startTime":411.231,"endTime":415.326,"body":"and meet requirements for a little"},{"startTime":415.331,"endTime":420.992,"body":"while, but at some point I would say"},{"startTime":415.331,"endTime":420.992,"body":"usually around the 90 day mark, your"},{"startTime":420.992,"endTime":428.021,"body":"first review or so, there's a, a change"},{"startTime":420.992,"endTime":428.021,"body":"in expectations that is both in the"},{"startTime":428.021,"endTime":430.45,"body":"company and on yourself right now."},{"startTime":430.45,"endTime":434.754,"body":"If you haven't overcome that hurdle or"},{"startTime":430.45,"endTime":434.754,"body":"you feel like you have a long way to go,"},{"startTime":434.754,"endTime":437.25,"body":"yet that almost is the melting point."},{"startTime":437.25,"endTime":438.535,"body":"It's not at the beginning."},{"startTime":439.107,"endTime":441.878,"body":"It's, and, and then a year from"},{"startTime":439.107,"endTime":441.878,"body":"now, you could be that subject"},{"startTime":441.878,"endTime":443.535,"body":"matter expert in that domain expert."},{"startTime":443.54,"endTime":446.164,"body":"You've got that domain expertise,"},{"startTime":443.54,"endTime":446.164,"body":"but it's that middle ground."},{"startTime":446.278,"endTime":446.535,"body":"Woo."},{"startTime":446.878,"endTime":450.24,"body":"So, even in those first three"},{"startTime":446.878,"endTime":450.24,"body":"months, even if you're new mm-hmm."},{"startTime":450.316,"endTime":452.221,"body":", like that's kind of where we're going"},{"startTime":450.316,"endTime":452.221,"body":"with what we're talking about now."},{"startTime":452.221,"endTime":452.278,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":452.278,"endTime":454.392,"body":"You're new, even if you're"},{"startTime":452.278,"endTime":454.392,"body":"new and you don't have domain"},{"startTime":454.392,"endTime":456.04,"body":"expertise, two recommendations."},{"startTime":456.04,"endTime":457.945,"body":"Number one like there's"},{"startTime":456.04,"endTime":457.945,"body":"no stupid questions."},{"startTime":457.945,"endTime":462.426,"body":"Like, like if you are if you're a"},{"startTime":457.945,"endTime":462.426,"body":"PM in the PM career field and you're"},{"startTime":462.654,"endTime":466.34,"body":"afraid of being perceived as stupid"},{"startTime":462.654,"endTime":466.34,"body":"cuz you're asking questions, first of"},{"startTime":466.34,"endTime":467.397,"body":"all, you're in the wrong career field."},{"startTime":467.74,"endTime":468.826,"body":"That and business analysis."},{"startTime":468.826,"endTime":471.902,"body":"Like you, you've, you've made a"},{"startTime":468.826,"endTime":471.902,"body":"mistake, you need to fix something."},{"startTime":472.159,"endTime":476.645,"body":"But aside from like pushing that out"},{"startTime":472.159,"endTime":476.645,"body":"hard outta the way what you can do in"},{"startTime":476.645,"endTime":481.492,"body":"the first three months is you can spend"},{"startTime":476.645,"endTime":481.492,"body":"a lot of time doing one-on-ones, climbing"},{"startTime":481.492,"endTime":486.683,"body":"the the old corporate ladder, figuring"},{"startTime":481.492,"endTime":486.683,"body":"out, who is in managerial positions,"},{"startTime":487.026,"endTime":488.769,"body":"and then who the actual leaders are."},{"startTime":488.797,"endTime":488.883,"body":"Mm-hmm."},{"startTime":489.34,"endTime":492.55,"body":", and then basically between the two"},{"startTime":489.34,"endTime":492.55,"body":"of them who actually calls the shots."},{"startTime":492.75,"endTime":496.207,"body":"Like, you might have a manager that says"},{"startTime":492.75,"endTime":496.207,"body":"like, oh, well this, this manager decides"},{"startTime":496.35,"endTime":499.235,"body":"when things get done, or this manager"},{"startTime":496.35,"endTime":499.235,"body":"decides prioritization or whatever."},{"startTime":499.864,"endTime":505.464,"body":"But the subtext is, well, this"},{"startTime":499.864,"endTime":505.464,"body":"manager always relies on this leader."},{"startTime":505.464,"endTime":506.035,"body":"Mm-hmm."},{"startTime":506.35,"endTime":511.064,"body":"this specific subject matter expert"},{"startTime":506.35,"endTime":511.064,"body":"who if they don't like something,"},{"startTime":511.064,"endTime":512.435,"body":"it basically doesn't get done."},{"startTime":512.607,"endTime":515.635,"body":"Like, that's not written in an org"},{"startTime":512.607,"endTime":515.635,"body":"chart or a hierarchy or whatever."},{"startTime":516.345,"endTime":521.859,"body":"Even if you are, even if your"},{"startTime":516.345,"endTime":521.859,"body":"teams are more agile than a typical"},{"startTime":522.459,"endTime":527.259,"body":"top-down hierarchical corporation or"},{"startTime":522.459,"endTime":527.259,"body":"whatever, it might be hidden inside"},{"startTime":527.259,"endTime":529.907,"body":"of like one senior member of a team"},{"startTime":527.259,"endTime":529.907,"body":"who's been there for a while, or"},{"startTime":529.907,"endTime":534.299,"body":"but the point of this is politics"},{"startTime":529.907,"endTime":534.299,"body":"for a product manager is important."},{"startTime":535.071,"endTime":542.042,"body":"You need to cast that net very wide"},{"startTime":535.071,"endTime":542.042,"body":"and learn who makes things work."},{"startTime":542.042,"endTime":543.357,"body":"I mean, who has authority"},{"startTime":542.042,"endTime":543.357,"body":"of that kinda stuff."},{"startTime":543.585,"endTime":546.671,"body":"Uh, and, and in your first 90 days or"},{"startTime":543.585,"endTime":546.671,"body":"whatever, like in that period where"},{"startTime":546.671,"endTime":550.442,"body":"you, you, while you were ramping"},{"startTime":546.671,"endTime":550.442,"body":"up, On the rest of the business."},{"startTime":551.014,"endTime":553.157,"body":"There's nothing stopping"},{"startTime":551.014,"endTime":553.157,"body":"you from doing this."},{"startTime":553.185,"endTime":553.471,"body":"Yes."},{"startTime":554.099,"endTime":554.271,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":554.271,"endTime":554.728,"body":"Definitely."},{"startTime":554.728,"endTime":556.985,"body":"Vectoring in with the right people."},{"startTime":557.042,"endTime":557.185,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":557.299,"endTime":558.242,"body":"From day one."},{"startTime":558.299,"endTime":559.871,"body":"That should be your objective anyway."},{"startTime":560.185,"endTime":560.557,"body":"Right."},{"startTime":560.728,"endTime":563.728,"body":"Whether you're in the same domain"},{"startTime":560.728,"endTime":563.728,"body":"that you're walking into or not."},{"startTime":563.757,"endTime":563.842,"body":"Mm-hmm."},{"startTime":564.071,"endTime":568.985,"body":", even if you are people and politics and"},{"startTime":564.071,"endTime":568.985,"body":"processes, the three Ps get in the way."},{"startTime":568.985,"endTime":569.585,"body":"So yeah."},{"startTime":569.842,"endTime":572.871,"body":"Figure out who really"},{"startTime":569.842,"endTime":572.871,"body":"matters side with them."},{"startTime":572.966,"endTime":575.223,"body":"And they're gonna help you get over this."},{"startTime":575.252,"endTime":575.452,"body":"Right."},{"startTime":575.452,"endTime":578.252,"body":"The 90 day is just an"},{"startTime":575.452,"endTime":578.252,"body":"arbitrary timeline really."},{"startTime":578.595,"endTime":580.28,"body":"I truly, it is."},{"startTime":580.285,"endTime":583.109,"body":"I, I just, I thought about that"},{"startTime":580.285,"endTime":583.109,"body":"because that's kind of where"},{"startTime":583.109,"endTime":584.595,"body":"I am in my job personally."},{"startTime":584.595,"endTime":585.338,"body":"Like, so yeah."},{"startTime":585.338,"endTime":586.338,"body":"It just came top of mind."},{"startTime":586.338,"endTime":587.538,"body":"I just had my 90 day review."},{"startTime":587.538,"endTime":587.595,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":587.595,"endTime":588.195,"body":"So I was like, huh."},{"startTime":588.292,"endTime":592.597,"body":"Basically the people you meet when you"},{"startTime":588.292,"endTime":592.597,"body":"first onboard to a company like you are"},{"startTime":592.602,"endTime":596.435,"body":"setting the tone for your interactions"},{"startTime":592.602,"endTime":596.435,"body":"rather than letting them be set on"},{"startTime":596.435,"endTime":598.006,"body":"somebody else's terms, basically."},{"startTime":598.149,"endTime":598.349,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":598.354,"endTime":601.806,"body":"You, you are choosing the, the, the,"},{"startTime":598.354,"endTime":601.806,"body":"the Confucius, like you are choosing"},{"startTime":601.806,"endTime":604.949,"body":"the field of battle rather than letting"},{"startTime":601.806,"endTime":604.949,"body":"somebody else determine the field."},{"startTime":604.949,"endTime":609.378,"body":"And even if you choose a crappy first"},{"startTime":604.949,"endTime":609.378,"body":"interaction or your first interaction"},{"startTime":609.378,"endTime":612.521,"body":"is not that great, like you have"},{"startTime":609.378,"endTime":612.521,"body":"one-on-ones, you have opportunities"},{"startTime":612.521,"endTime":615.975,"body":"in the future, but the point is you're"},{"startTime":612.521,"endTime":615.975,"body":"seeking to influence what you can."},{"startTime":616.351,"endTime":620.065,"body":"I think that, so number one, you're"},{"startTime":616.351,"endTime":620.065,"body":"still trying to figure out when you're"},{"startTime":620.07,"endTime":621.894,"body":"at a, if you're, if you're new mm-hmm."},{"startTime":622.208,"endTime":622.408,"body":", uh right."},{"startTime":622.408,"endTime":624.922,"body":"You're still trying to figure out"},{"startTime":622.408,"endTime":624.922,"body":"what exactly you're responsible for."},{"startTime":624.922,"endTime":629.008,"body":"So ideally, ideally we kind of understand"},{"startTime":624.922,"endTime":629.008,"body":"what we should be responsible for,"},{"startTime":629.037,"endTime":633.275,"body":"but every company's different and"},{"startTime":629.037,"endTime":633.275,"body":"every there's politics, we don't know"},{"startTime":633.275,"endTime":634.56,"body":"the, we don't know those things yet."},{"startTime":634.56,"endTime":636.446,"body":"So we are still trying to"},{"startTime":634.56,"endTime":636.446,"body":"figure those things out."},{"startTime":636.446,"endTime":639.779,"body":"Mm-hmm  one of the things that,"},{"startTime":636.446,"endTime":639.779,"body":"when you were speaking that I, that"},{"startTime":639.779,"endTime":644.484,"body":"I started to think of was because"},{"startTime":639.779,"endTime":644.484,"body":"we don't know what we don't know."},{"startTime":644.96,"endTime":650.475,"body":"That those initial meetings are"},{"startTime":644.96,"endTime":650.475,"body":"thinking about them as opportunities"},{"startTime":650.475,"endTime":652.332,"body":"for relationship building."},{"startTime":652.389,"endTime":652.589,"body":"Right."},{"startTime":652.817,"endTime":657.589,"body":"So really focusing, making that"},{"startTime":652.817,"endTime":657.589,"body":"the agenda, making this meeting"},{"startTime":657.594,"endTime":660.017,"body":"about how they can help you."},{"startTime":660.022,"endTime":660.513,"body":"Right."},{"startTime":660.675,"endTime":663.56,"body":"So be selfish as long as you can."},{"startTime":663.617,"endTime":667.446,"body":"Yeah, because, because, and the reason I'm"},{"startTime":663.617,"endTime":667.446,"body":"saying that is because as soon as you have"},{"startTime":667.446,"endTime":671.675,"body":"those one-on-ones and you've got the new"},{"startTime":667.446,"endTime":671.675,"body":"product owner, the product manager, right?"},{"startTime":671.789,"endTime":674.846,"body":"And you have a one-on-one, and all"},{"startTime":671.789,"endTime":674.846,"body":"of a sudden you walk out with action"},{"startTime":674.846,"endTime":676.046,"body":"items, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah."},{"startTime":676.246,"endTime":676.551,"body":"Mm-hmm."},{"startTime":676.632,"endTime":681.484,"body":", right In your first 90 days, you have"},{"startTime":676.632,"endTime":681.484,"body":"now scheduled one-on-ones with all your"},{"startTime":681.484,"endTime":683.598,"body":"sales people, all your account managers."},{"startTime":683.598,"endTime":683.656,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":683.656,"endTime":684.198,"body":"All your, right."},{"startTime":684.198,"endTime":688.341,"body":"So all your leadership team and your so"},{"startTime":684.198,"endTime":688.341,"body":"customer success, all of those people,"},{"startTime":688.741,"endTime":691.998,"body":"and all of a sudden they're going like,"},{"startTime":688.741,"endTime":691.998,"body":"oh, oh, you could do, oh, can you do this?"},{"startTime":692.027,"endTime":692.741,"body":"Oh, can you do this?"},{"startTime":692.941,"endTime":696.113,"body":"And because I think I mentioned"},{"startTime":692.941,"endTime":696.113,"body":"earlier that when you come in, you"},{"startTime":696.113,"endTime":697.284,"body":"don't know what you don't know."},{"startTime":697.284,"endTime":700.941,"body":"And the assumption is if somebody's asking"},{"startTime":697.284,"endTime":700.941,"body":"it of you, that must be something that I"},{"startTime":701.341,"endTime":704.798,"body":"should be doing, with the assumption here"},{"startTime":701.341,"endTime":704.798,"body":"that we don't necessarily know the domain."},{"startTime":704.803,"endTime":705.113,"body":"Right?"},{"startTime":705.198,"endTime":705.341,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":705.341,"endTime":707.627,"body":"I guess, oh, is that"},{"startTime":705.341,"endTime":707.627,"body":"something I should be doing?"},{"startTime":707.632,"endTime":710.903,"body":"Maybe in a year from now, I"},{"startTime":707.632,"endTime":710.903,"body":"might say that's probably not"},{"startTime":710.903,"endTime":711.76,"body":"something I can help you with."},{"startTime":711.76,"endTime":714.046,"body":"But let me, I, I know who"},{"startTime":711.76,"endTime":714.046,"body":"can help you with that."},{"startTime":714.075,"endTime":714.417,"body":"Right."},{"startTime":714.417,"endTime":716.846,"body":"So, but we don't have"},{"startTime":714.417,"endTime":716.846,"body":"that knowledge right now."},{"startTime":716.875,"endTime":717.456,"body":"Mm-hmm."},{"startTime":717.532,"endTime":721.151,"body":". So my point is, when you're kind of"},{"startTime":717.532,"endTime":721.151,"body":"learning that political landscape"},{"startTime":721.627,"endTime":728.484,"body":"and you are number one, either"},{"startTime":721.627,"endTime":728.484,"body":"trying to deal with imposter syndrome"},{"startTime":728.489,"endTime":731.913,"body":"or keep it at bay; be selfish."},{"startTime":731.97,"endTime":734.084,"body":"Make those meetings about you."},{"startTime":734.198,"endTime":736.913,"body":"Use that one-on-one time to learn."},{"startTime":737.389,"endTime":743.951,"body":"uh learn about what the company, what that"},{"startTime":737.389,"endTime":743.951,"body":"leader does what their expectations are"},{"startTime":743.951,"endTime":748.027,"body":"of your role and then communicate back."},{"startTime":748.075,"endTime":750.932,"body":"Anything that might not be aligned."},{"startTime":750.932,"endTime":754.217,"body":"I mean, this is your opportunity to"},{"startTime":750.932,"endTime":754.217,"body":"do those, to your point, to there's"},{"startTime":754.222,"endTime":755.903,"body":"no question, no stupid question."},{"startTime":756.046,"endTime":756.103,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":756.16,"endTime":759.475,"body":"This is the opportunity"},{"startTime":756.16,"endTime":759.475,"body":"more than any other Yeah."},{"startTime":759.76,"endTime":761.76,"body":"When you can ask those questions."},{"startTime":761.903,"endTime":764.103,"body":"And I think that could help to"},{"startTime":761.903,"endTime":764.103,"body":"build you up and, and learning"},{"startTime":764.103,"endTime":767.075,"body":"the political landscape, but also"},{"startTime":764.103,"endTime":767.075,"body":"to develop those relationships."},{"startTime":767.198,"endTime":770.532,"body":"You know, what would be a good like"},{"startTime":767.198,"endTime":770.532,"body":"45 minute podcast is A situational"},{"startTime":770.532,"endTime":773.637,"body":"podcast like, Hey, that side of"},{"startTime":770.532,"endTime":773.637,"body":"the table is like either leadership"},{"startTime":773.637,"endTime":774.551,"body":"or stakeholders or whatever."},{"startTime":774.637,"endTime":777.437,"body":"And this side of the table is"},{"startTime":774.637,"endTime":777.437,"body":"the new PMs or maybe a PM and"},{"startTime":777.437,"endTime":778.408,"body":"Agile coach, something like that."},{"startTime":778.456,"endTime":782.708,"body":"I think like the exercise would"},{"startTime":778.456,"endTime":782.708,"body":"be, hey you are new in either a"},{"startTime":782.756,"endTime":784.384,"body":"scrum master slash agile coach."},{"startTime":784.97,"endTime":789.417,"body":"product manager, these are leadership"},{"startTime":784.97,"endTime":789.417,"body":"roles and when you join a company"},{"startTime":789.56,"endTime":793.075,"body":"in a leadership role, no matter how"},{"startTime":789.56,"endTime":793.075,"body":"junior leadership is, or how buried"},{"startTime":793.075,"endTime":797.056,"body":"in hierarchy you are what would"},{"startTime":793.075,"endTime":797.056,"body":"be your introductory questions?"},{"startTime":797.056,"endTime":800.646,"body":"Like I, I can think of a probably"},{"startTime":797.056,"endTime":800.646,"body":"half a dozen questions that are not"},{"startTime":800.646,"endTime":803.57,"body":"organized or even good questions"},{"startTime":800.646,"endTime":803.57,"body":"like right off the top of my head"},{"startTime":803.617,"endTime":805.122,"body":"Hey like how do you."},{"startTime":805.656,"endTime":810.17,"body":"what's coming up in the product"},{"startTime":805.656,"endTime":810.17,"body":"in the next whatever month?"},{"startTime":810.284,"endTime":814.275,"body":"How, how do you know what things have"},{"startTime":810.284,"endTime":814.275,"body":"been traded off in prioritization"},{"startTime":814.275,"endTime":816.561,"body":"that, hey, we're not gonna work on"},{"startTime":814.275,"endTime":816.561,"body":"that because we need to work on this."},{"startTime":816.647,"endTime":816.761,"body":"Mm-hmm."},{"startTime":816.99,"endTime":819.361,"body":", how, how do you know when those decisions"},{"startTime":816.99,"endTime":819.361,"body":"kind of jockey things up and down?"},{"startTime":819.618,"endTime":824.025,"body":"Um, how, how do you know assuming"},{"startTime":819.618,"endTime":824.025,"body":"your company has user personas"},{"startTime":824.025,"endTime":825.367,"body":"that back up the stories."},{"startTime":825.482,"endTime":826.111,"body":"How, how do."},{"startTime":826.467,"endTime":828.115,"body":"Who, who we're building for?"},{"startTime":828.239,"endTime":831.553,"body":"For example, if I was building"},{"startTime":828.239,"endTime":831.553,"body":"only, cuz Stormy, here, I'm using"},{"startTime":831.553,"endTime":834.639,"body":"this example if I was building"},{"startTime":831.553,"endTime":834.639,"body":"software for healthcare mm-hmm."},{"startTime":834.987,"endTime":836.787,"body":"I got the, the backend billing people."},{"startTime":836.791,"endTime":837.044,"body":"Mm-hmm."},{"startTime":837.12,"endTime":839.644,"body":", I've got nurses  the actual RNs."},{"startTime":839.644,"endTime":840.025,"body":"Mm-hmm."},{"startTime":840.101,"endTime":841.053,"body":", like I have software for them."},{"startTime":841.396,"endTime":842.625,"body":"I have software for the doctors."},{"startTime":842.66,"endTime":846.814,"body":"I as leadership  I see that"},{"startTime":842.66,"endTime":846.814,"body":"58% of the features, I just"},{"startTime":846.814,"endTime":847.471,"body":"pulled the number outta the air."},{"startTime":847.699,"endTime":851.509,"body":"45% of the features that we build"},{"startTime":847.699,"endTime":851.509,"body":"are for backend billing people."},{"startTime":851.561,"endTime":852.247,"body":"Why Right?"},{"startTime":852.247,"endTime":855.818,"body":"Do we really need to optimize"},{"startTime":852.247,"endTime":855.818,"body":"for this specific type of user?"},{"startTime":855.866,"endTime":858.771,"body":"But the, the point is like can you break"},{"startTime":855.866,"endTime":858.771,"body":"down the features that you're building"},{"startTime":858.999,"endTime":863.075,"body":"to the user level and then show me a"},{"startTime":858.999,"endTime":863.075,"body":"percentage that, cuz that there, there's a"},{"startTime":863.304,"endTime":867.371,"body":"maturity there in your operation that I as"},{"startTime":863.304,"endTime":867.371,"body":"leadership want to know what's happening."},{"startTime":867.656,"endTime":871.685,"body":"Are we actually servicing the users"},{"startTime":867.656,"endTime":871.685,"body":"that it matters that make an impact?"},{"startTime":872.156,"endTime":875.099,"body":"And that goes back up to my corporate"},{"startTime":872.156,"endTime":875.099,"body":"strategy and my company strategy."},{"startTime":875.099,"endTime":876.756,"body":"It's gotta be aligned to that, et cetera."},{"startTime":876.756,"endTime":877.328,"body":"Yeah, I get it."},{"startTime":877.385,"endTime":878.328,"body":"Yeah, absolutely."},{"startTime":878.585,"endTime":879.385,"body":"That makes sense."},{"startTime":879.433,"endTime":882.661,"body":"I think that's the other thing we"},{"startTime":879.433,"endTime":882.661,"body":"haven't talked about though, in your"},{"startTime":882.666,"endTime":889.572,"body":"initial foray into a new company use the"},{"startTime":882.666,"endTime":889.572,"body":"experts that are there to your advantage."},{"startTime":889.744,"endTime":889.887,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":889.887,"endTime":894.087,"body":"That may sometimes require some"},{"startTime":889.887,"endTime":894.087,"body":"egos stroking life skills, right?"},{"startTime":894.22,"endTime":894.387,"body":"Sure, sure."},{"startTime":894.487,"endTime":898.372,"body":"It may, it may just bloat people"},{"startTime":894.487,"endTime":898.372,"body":"up and go, Hey, I know you could"},{"startTime":898.372,"endTime":901.544,"body":"do this in your sleep, but you"},{"startTime":898.372,"endTime":901.544,"body":"explain it to me like I too?"},{"startTime":901.639,"endTime":905.011,"body":"Pretend that you're a product"},{"startTime":901.639,"endTime":905.011,"body":"manager for like, for the first time."},{"startTime":905.011,"endTime":907.125,"body":"Like you got hired straight outta"},{"startTime":905.011,"endTime":907.125,"body":"college, or maybe you moved over,"},{"startTime":907.125,"endTime":908.849,"body":"maybe you were a developer for a"},{"startTime":907.125,"endTime":908.849,"body":"couple years, you moved over, right."},{"startTime":909.339,"endTime":911.434,"body":"and you really feel the imposter syndrome."},{"startTime":912.063,"endTime":913.863,"body":"How do I even conduct a one-on-one?"},{"startTime":914.434,"endTime":915.692,"body":"What do they even want to hear from me?"},{"startTime":915.739,"endTime":917.025,"body":"How do I even connect with someone?"},{"startTime":917.077,"endTime":920.849,"body":"The one-on-one topic by itself by"},{"startTime":917.077,"endTime":920.849,"body":"the way, is like, how do you get"},{"startTime":920.849,"endTime":921.763,"body":"influence in the organization?"},{"startTime":921.763,"endTime":923.677,"body":"How do you build influence"},{"startTime":921.763,"endTime":923.677,"body":"and get influence?"},{"startTime":923.725,"endTime":923.915,"body":"Mm-hmm."},{"startTime":923.992,"endTime":924.563,"body":", you don't get influence."},{"startTime":924.734,"endTime":926.506,"body":"How do you build influence"},{"startTime":924.734,"endTime":926.506,"body":"in the organization?"},{"startTime":926.511,"endTime":930.93,"body":"I'm glad I worded it poorly because like,"},{"startTime":926.511,"endTime":930.93,"body":"how do you how do you get influence?"},{"startTime":930.93,"endTime":932.958,"body":"Oh, well, you get hired into"},{"startTime":930.93,"endTime":932.958,"body":"a position of authority."},{"startTime":932.958,"endTime":934.358,"body":"That's how you get influence."},{"startTime":934.406,"endTime":938.006,"body":"Now let me tell you how to maintain"},{"startTime":934.406,"endTime":938.006,"body":"influence and how to build influence."},{"startTime":938.32,"endTime":941.092,"body":"You maintain and build influence"},{"startTime":938.32,"endTime":941.092,"body":"by connecting with people"},{"startTime":941.092,"endTime":945.23,"body":"one-on-one; by doing things for"},{"startTime":941.092,"endTime":945.23,"body":"people without asking for stuff."},{"startTime":945.615,"endTime":947.701,"body":"In, in return, right?"},{"startTime":947.701,"endTime":948.477,"body":"So, okay."},{"startTime":948.477,"endTime":949.763,"body":"Back to imposter syndrome."},{"startTime":949.82,"endTime":949.992,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":950.134,"endTime":954.506,"body":"So you're new, these are new"},{"startTime":950.134,"endTime":954.506,"body":"ways of thinking that you've"},{"startTime":954.506,"endTime":955.792,"body":"never dealt with before."},{"startTime":955.877,"endTime":955.992,"body":"Sure."},{"startTime":956.392,"endTime":959.163,"body":"And a lot of times the assumption"},{"startTime":956.392,"endTime":959.163,"body":"is like, this is simple stuff."},{"startTime":959.163,"endTime":962.192,"body":"Why would you like the assumption"},{"startTime":959.163,"endTime":962.192,"body":"is that somebody knows something"},{"startTime":962.192,"endTime":966.306,"body":"so simple and they may not, and"},{"startTime":962.192,"endTime":966.306,"body":"that might have been the reason."},{"startTime":966.306,"endTime":969.353,"body":"So what I would say is are they"},{"startTime":966.306,"endTime":969.353,"body":"aware of how to replicate that?"},{"startTime":969.358,"endTime":969.487,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":969.492,"endTime":971.382,"body":"So, so the next time I get to do it, yeah."},{"startTime":971.468,"endTime":975.687,"body":"And anyway, are they engaging"},{"startTime":971.468,"endTime":975.687,"body":"back with your responses?"},{"startTime":975.734,"endTime":977.372,"body":"Are, are they happy with your feedback?"},{"startTime":977.377,"endTime":977.849,"body":"That kind of stuff."},{"startTime":977.906,"endTime":980.106,"body":"Like if, if you're having a one-on-one"},{"startTime":977.906,"endTime":980.106,"body":"where it's actual face-to-face"},{"startTime":980.106,"endTime":983.734,"body":"conversation, it's a little easier to"},{"startTime":980.106,"endTime":983.734,"body":"read if you're like posting over Slack"},{"startTime":983.734,"endTime":986.696,"body":"or email or if they're responding to"},{"startTime":983.734,"endTime":986.696,"body":"you or if other people are getting,"},{"startTime":986.701,"endTime":989.611,"body":"if it's like an open form and other"},{"startTime":986.701,"endTime":989.611,"body":"people are getting in on it and you"},{"startTime":989.615,"endTime":993.968,"body":"see engagement, then you have some"},{"startTime":989.615,"endTime":993.968,"body":"sort of feedback available to you."},{"startTime":993.968,"endTime":994.796,"body":"Mm-hmm."},{"startTime":994.872,"endTime":998.015,"body":"Everything we're talking about in the"},{"startTime":994.872,"endTime":998.015,"body":"category right now is under the banner"},{"startTime":998.015,"endTime":1004.106,"body":"of leadership, like the, the politic"},{"startTime":998.015,"endTime":1004.106,"body":"politics and part of finding people"},{"startTime":1004.106,"endTime":1007.877,"body":"in the organization that are making"},{"startTime":1004.106,"endTime":1007.877,"body":"a difference or can make an impact."},{"startTime":1008.353,"endTime":1011.125,"body":"And then partnering with them to find"},{"startTime":1008.353,"endTime":1011.125,"body":"out what they need and then like helping"},{"startTime":1011.13,"endTime":1015.125,"body":"them and uh, going to them, relying"},{"startTime":1011.13,"endTime":1015.125,"body":"on them, having them rely on you."},{"startTime":1015.177,"endTime":1018.063,"body":"All that is under the banner of politics."},{"startTime":1018.377,"endTime":1021.806,"body":"But I, I like, I like my challenge"},{"startTime":1018.377,"endTime":1021.806,"body":"to this is like, all that is also"},{"startTime":1021.806,"endTime":1023.549,"body":"under the banner of leadership."},{"startTime":1023.634,"endTime":1023.72,"body":"Mm-hmm."},{"startTime":1024.12,"endTime":1027.749,"body":", because like I, I tell people all"},{"startTime":1024.12,"endTime":1027.749,"body":"the time as a product manager,"},{"startTime":1027.749,"endTime":1031.406,"body":"I have to be, I, I have to be"},{"startTime":1027.749,"endTime":1031.406,"body":"enthused about the product vision."},{"startTime":1031.863,"endTime":1034.206,"body":"I, and, and like to take"},{"startTime":1031.863,"endTime":1034.206,"body":"that to the next step."},{"startTime":1034.206,"endTime":1037.463,"body":"I have to have a product vision of"},{"startTime":1034.206,"endTime":1037.463,"body":"where the product's gonna be in a"},{"startTime":1037.463,"endTime":1041.977,"body":"couple of years, and then start driving"},{"startTime":1037.463,"endTime":1041.977,"body":"with that vision to where I wanna be."},{"startTime":1041.977,"endTime":1045.92,"body":"And then like, I'm like, I'm following"},{"startTime":1041.977,"endTime":1045.92,"body":"a general road map, and then sometimes"},{"startTime":1045.92,"endTime":1049.063,"body":"I get to the road and the mountain"},{"startTime":1045.92,"endTime":1049.063,"body":"side's washed out or whatever and have"},{"startTime":1049.063,"endTime":1050.263,"body":"to like pick a new road or whatever."},{"startTime":1050.434,"endTime":1052.72,"body":"And I don't get deterred,"},{"startTime":1050.434,"endTime":1052.72,"body":"I don't get stress."},{"startTime":1053.149,"endTime":1055.749,"body":"And I'll let people read"},{"startTime":1053.149,"endTime":1055.749,"body":"stress on me about that kind"},{"startTime":1055.749,"endTime":1058.463,"body":"of stuff, cuz that is normal."},{"startTime":1058.892,"endTime":1061.777,"body":"But I could easily see imposter"},{"startTime":1058.892,"endTime":1061.777,"body":"syndrome about like, well, hey, I'm"},{"startTime":1061.777,"endTime":1066.406,"body":"building a path and everyone's beating"},{"startTime":1061.777,"endTime":1066.406,"body":"me up all, every step along that path."},{"startTime":1066.663,"endTime":1069.749,"body":"And every, every time we have a"},{"startTime":1066.663,"endTime":1069.749,"body":"tiny little hiccup, everyone's"},{"startTime":1069.749,"endTime":1073.949,"body":"like, oh gosh, Brian, how come"},{"startTime":1069.749,"endTime":1073.949,"body":"you didn't see this coming?"},{"startTime":1073.996,"endTime":1079.025,"body":"The point of this category is that as"},{"startTime":1073.996,"endTime":1079.025,"body":"a product manager, if you're feeling"},{"startTime":1079.025,"endTime":1084.225,"body":"imposter syndrome, one way to help you"},{"startTime":1079.025,"endTime":1084.225,"body":"out of that,  out of that, around it, or,"},{"startTime":1084.701,"endTime":1084.988,"body":"I don't, I don't know."},{"startTime":1085.025,"endTime":1085.33,"body":"Deal with it."},{"startTime":1085.33,"endTime":1085.787,"body":"Deal with it."},{"startTime":1085.844,"endTime":1087.215,"body":"You, you've fallen in a pit trap."},{"startTime":1087.215,"endTime":1089.272,"body":"That's what, easy - you take 1d6 damage!"},{"startTime":1089.32,"endTime":1089.949,"body":"Lizards and Wizards!"},{"startTime":1089.949,"endTime":1091.045,"body":"Is going back to our podcast."},{"startTime":1091.216,"endTime":1094.616,"body":"One of the things that helps you out"},{"startTime":1091.216,"endTime":1094.616,"body":"of this is to learn to communicate,"},{"startTime":1094.702,"endTime":1096.816,"body":"like leadership communicates."},{"startTime":1097.302,"endTime":1098.988,"body":"I don't mean management, no."},{"startTime":1099.092,"endTime":1099.716,"body":"leadership."},{"startTime":1100.002,"endTime":1100.859,"body":"I mean leadership."},{"startTime":1101.145,"endTime":1103.459,"body":"I wanna say that's an"},{"startTime":1101.145,"endTime":1103.459,"body":"art more than a science."},{"startTime":1103.507,"endTime":1107.078,"body":"you don't get taught that in"},{"startTime":1103.507,"endTime":1107.078,"body":"school or college or whatever."},{"startTime":1107.126,"endTime":1112.907,"body":"it's your, the way they perceive you,"},{"startTime":1107.126,"endTime":1112.907,"body":"the their perception of you Sure is, is."},{"startTime":1113.392,"endTime":1117.392,"body":"Pretty much predicated upon that,"},{"startTime":1113.392,"endTime":1117.392,"body":"very much so than anything else."},{"startTime":1117.65,"endTime":1121.897,"body":"It's no longer, I guess, if you are new,"},{"startTime":1117.65,"endTime":1121.897,"body":"so first impressions, but in this way with"},{"startTime":1121.902,"endTime":1123.583,"body":"communication, not visual impressions."},{"startTime":1123.583,"endTime":1123.669,"body":"Sure."},{"startTime":1124.069,"endTime":1126.326,"body":"Uh, and, and they are lasting, right?"},{"startTime":1126.326,"endTime":1128.326,"body":"So you go in and you speak their language."},{"startTime":1128.383,"endTime":1130.831,"body":"I know that's a cliche, but"},{"startTime":1128.383,"endTime":1130.831,"body":"it really isn't speak their"},{"startTime":1131.231,"endTime":1132.059,"body":"language, what matters to them."},{"startTime":1132.107,"endTime":1134.164,"body":"This is where I think those people."},{"startTime":1134.64,"endTime":1138.869,"body":"They adapt the art of communicating"},{"startTime":1134.64,"endTime":1138.869,"body":"this way are more prone to succeed"},{"startTime":1138.869,"endTime":1140.469,"body":"than others that you say, but, but."},{"startTime":1140.516,"endTime":1141.059,"body":"Look at this."},{"startTime":1141.064,"endTime":1142.802,"body":"And it's just not connecting."},{"startTime":1142.859,"endTime":1143.916,"body":"It's not landing with them."},{"startTime":1143.969,"endTime":1150.092,"body":"But so for imposter syndrome, so you"},{"startTime":1143.969,"endTime":1150.092,"body":"are, to your point, this is an art, which"},{"startTime":1150.092,"endTime":1155.007,"body":"means it's, it's something that needs to"},{"startTime":1150.092,"endTime":1155.007,"body":"be developed over time, but it generally"},{"startTime":1155.007,"endTime":1157.892,"body":"isn't something that's, I think innate No."},{"startTime":1157.892,"endTime":1158.464,"body":"Could be."},{"startTime":1158.578,"endTime":1159.064,"body":"Could be."},{"startTime":1159.069,"endTime":1161.864,"body":"But I think it, it's something"},{"startTime":1159.069,"endTime":1161.864,"body":"that's learned either through"},{"startTime":1161.864,"endTime":1165.416,"body":"trial and error or by example and"},{"startTime":1161.864,"endTime":1165.416,"body":"probably a combination of both."},{"startTime":1165.431,"endTime":1169.745,"body":"I think there's far less of an"},{"startTime":1165.431,"endTime":1169.745,"body":"opportunity of those examples because"},{"startTime":1169.745,"endTime":1172.088,"body":"of our remote work environments now."},{"startTime":1172.279,"endTime":1176.707,"body":"Coming into a new company or a new"},{"startTime":1172.279,"endTime":1176.707,"body":"organization or dealing with imposter"},{"startTime":1176.707,"endTime":1178.736,"body":"syndrome as a, a product manager mm-hmm."},{"startTime":1179.422,"endTime":1185.46,"body":"and um, you don't necessarily have those"},{"startTime":1179.422,"endTime":1185.46,"body":"skills honed, or maybe you did and they"},{"startTime":1185.46,"endTime":1188.431,"body":"worked at a different company, but now"},{"startTime":1185.46,"endTime":1188.431,"body":"you're somewhere else and they speak"},{"startTime":1188.431,"endTime":1190.888,"body":"a different language, which happens."},{"startTime":1191.022,"endTime":1191.469,"body":"Oh yeah."},{"startTime":1191.612,"endTime":1192.383,"body":"Enough, right?"},{"startTime":1192.526,"endTime":1195.441,"body":"So now all of a sudden you're"},{"startTime":1192.526,"endTime":1195.441,"body":"going like, wait, what we, the"},{"startTime":1195.445,"endTime":1197.126,"body":"way we spoke isn't working here."},{"startTime":1197.212,"endTime":1197.269,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":1197.469,"endTime":1198.498,"body":"You know, what am I doing wrong?"},{"startTime":1198.545,"endTime":1202.288,"body":"I'll give you an example of that"},{"startTime":1198.545,"endTime":1202.288,"body":"at a company that I was on contract"},{"startTime":1202.293,"endTime":1205.412,"body":"at one time, I was a product owner"},{"startTime":1202.293,"endTime":1205.412,"body":"for basically all their products."},{"startTime":1205.46,"endTime":1211.288,"body":"I was their single product manager and I"},{"startTime":1205.46,"endTime":1211.288,"body":"had multiple products in the portfolio."},{"startTime":1211.288,"endTime":1213.431,"body":"I had three products"},{"startTime":1211.288,"endTime":1213.431,"body":"actually in the portfolio."},{"startTime":1213.431,"endTime":1218.336,"body":"Well, arguably two or three,"},{"startTime":1213.431,"endTime":1218.336,"body":"but it doesn't really matter."},{"startTime":1218.422,"endTime":1220.736,"body":"So, so we'll just say I"},{"startTime":1218.422,"endTime":1220.736,"body":"had two products, right?"},{"startTime":1221.136,"endTime":1224.079,"body":"Each of those products was"},{"startTime":1221.136,"endTime":1224.079,"body":"maintained by a separate team."},{"startTime":1224.793,"endTime":1228.912,"body":"So, I, as a product owner would go"},{"startTime":1224.793,"endTime":1228.912,"body":"over to one team and they would,"},{"startTime":1228.941,"endTime":1232.026,"body":"I'd have a backlog and a, and a,"},{"startTime":1228.941,"endTime":1232.026,"body":"and a roadmap and everything for"},{"startTime":1232.026,"endTime":1233.626,"body":"this team and their whole product."},{"startTime":1233.883,"endTime":1238.341,"body":"And I'd go over to another team in"},{"startTime":1233.883,"endTime":1238.341,"body":"the same day, cuz I love having all my"},{"startTime":1238.345,"endTime":1242.741,"body":"backlog refinements on one day sucker"},{"startTime":1238.345,"endTime":1242.741,"body":"completely context switch and be like,"},{"startTime":1242.741,"endTime":1245.855,"body":"everything we talk about over here,"},{"startTime":1242.741,"endTime":1245.855,"body":"I'm gonna forget it and go over here."},{"startTime":1246.179,"endTime":1248.35,"body":"That stuff is tough."},{"startTime":1248.683,"endTime":1251.398,"body":"So I, one of the things I wanna say"},{"startTime":1248.683,"endTime":1251.398,"body":"about communicating with leadership,"},{"startTime":1251.402,"endTime":1255.512,"body":"coming into a new company, and you"},{"startTime":1251.402,"endTime":1255.512,"body":"don't know how they talk, right?"},{"startTime":1255.741,"endTime":1259.141,"body":"It's a new company, is maybe"},{"startTime":1255.741,"endTime":1259.141,"body":"just get yourself invited to"},{"startTime":1259.141,"endTime":1260.769,"body":"some of those calls and observe?"},{"startTime":1260.855,"endTime":1261.712,"body":"Say nothing mm-hmm."},{"startTime":1261.788,"endTime":1263.922,"body":", and just watch how other"},{"startTime":1261.788,"endTime":1263.922,"body":"people are doing it."},{"startTime":1264.15,"endTime":1268.436,"body":"Maybe partner with some other"},{"startTime":1264.15,"endTime":1268.436,"body":"product managers and see Right."},{"startTime":1268.522,"endTime":1269.55,"body":"That, that might be good."},{"startTime":1269.55,"endTime":1272.707,"body":"So I'm saying, really what I'm getting"},{"startTime":1269.55,"endTime":1272.707,"body":"to is, Reach out to your peers."},{"startTime":1272.907,"endTime":1273.479,"body":"Yeah, right."},{"startTime":1273.479,"endTime":1274.622,"body":"One-on-one I think."},{"startTime":1274.707,"endTime":1275.05,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":1275.055,"endTime":1275.174,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":1275.174,"endTime":1275.745,"body":"Partner with them."},{"startTime":1275.745,"endTime":1276.202,"body":"So, yeah."},{"startTime":1276.25,"endTime":1280.05,"body":"So yeah, I, I mean there's, there's,"},{"startTime":1276.25,"endTime":1280.05,"body":"there is nothing wrong with going to"},{"startTime":1280.05,"endTime":1282.383,"body":"another product manager  and going"},{"startTime":1280.05,"endTime":1282.383,"body":"to 'em and be like, Hey, I just"},{"startTime":1282.383,"endTime":1283.669,"body":"wanna observe, you know what I mean?"},{"startTime":1283.669,"endTime":1285.012,"body":"I just wanna ride along or whatever."},{"startTime":1285.012,"endTime":1287.955,"body":"Like the, that's not,"},{"startTime":1285.012,"endTime":1287.955,"body":"that's not a bad thing No."},{"startTime":1288.098,"endTime":1291.502,"body":"Saying like, Hey, I don't under really"},{"startTime":1288.098,"endTime":1291.502,"body":"understand how to do I, I, I, like"},{"startTime":1291.507,"endTime":1294.531,"body":"the first five years of my career"},{"startTime":1291.507,"endTime":1294.531,"body":"was, was doing business analysis"},{"startTime":1294.731,"endTime":1299.531,"body":"and qa, so like I know how to"},{"startTime":1294.731,"endTime":1299.531,"body":"break stories down pretty t Well"},{"startTime":1299.874,"endTime":1304.379,"body":"I can't even imagine how someone"},{"startTime":1299.874,"endTime":1304.379,"body":"who just jumps in from college and"},{"startTime":1304.379,"endTime":1307.922,"body":"just starts doing the PM roll and is"},{"startTime":1304.379,"endTime":1307.922,"body":"expected to have that BA skillset."},{"startTime":1308.398,"endTime":1310.312,"body":"I can't, I can't even"},{"startTime":1308.398,"endTime":1310.312,"body":"imagine how they learn."},{"startTime":1311.083,"endTime":1313.683,"body":"I know how I learned, which"},{"startTime":1311.083,"endTime":1313.683,"body":"is not necessarily the way I"},{"startTime":1313.683,"endTime":1314.569,"body":"want other people to learn."},{"startTime":1314.683,"endTime":1318.626,"body":"I learned by sitting at like projecting"},{"startTime":1314.683,"endTime":1318.626,"body":"on the screen what I'm writing and"},{"startTime":1318.626,"endTime":1322.141,"body":"then the whole development team and"},{"startTime":1318.626,"endTime":1322.141,"body":"everyone just be like, stop writing that."},{"startTime":1322.141,"endTime":1322.912,"body":"That's terrible."},{"startTime":1322.912,"endTime":1323.683,"body":"Like, don't write that."},{"startTime":1323.683,"endTime":1324.312,"body":"Write this."},{"startTime":1324.569,"endTime":1327.712,"body":"Like that's, that's the way I learned"},{"startTime":1324.569,"endTime":1327.712,"body":"to write stories in front of everyone."},{"startTime":1327.712,"endTime":1328.941,"body":"You say you don't, that's the perfect way."},{"startTime":1328.941,"endTime":1331.512,"body":"Yeah, I was gonna say, you say you"},{"startTime":1328.941,"endTime":1331.512,"body":"don't want people to do it that"},{"startTime":1331.512,"endTime":1333.112,"body":"way, but swarming is brilliant."},{"startTime":1333.112,"endTime":1337.782,"body":"Yes, that is, you just have to have"},{"startTime":1333.112,"endTime":1337.782,"body":"Less of an ego around you and go, I, I"},{"startTime":1337.787,"endTime":1339.125,"body":"know I'm wrong, so what does it matter?"},{"startTime":1339.21,"endTime":1339.81,"body":"Yeah, right."},{"startTime":1339.81,"endTime":1341.125,"body":"I'll be the hands on keyboard."},{"startTime":1341.125,"endTime":1342.468,"body":"You guys are the brains, I guess."},{"startTime":1342.468,"endTime":1344.782,"body":"So put something out there"},{"startTime":1342.468,"endTime":1344.782,"body":"for him to knock it down."},{"startTime":1344.782,"endTime":1345.525,"body":"I'm a fan of that."},{"startTime":1345.591,"endTime":1345.896,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":1345.901,"endTime":1348.582,"body":"I can't, it a better way to do that."},{"startTime":1348.582,"endTime":1348.896,"body":"I,"},{"startTime":1348.901,"endTime":1352.068,"body":"so yeah, we're trying, we're"},{"startTime":1348.901,"endTime":1352.068,"body":"doing a acceptance criteria."},{"startTime":1352.072,"endTime":1355.258,"body":"We're trying to figure out we're,"},{"startTime":1352.072,"endTime":1355.258,"body":"we're refining these stories and,"},{"startTime":1355.544,"endTime":1357.801,"body":"and I don't know the, how Sure."},{"startTime":1357.887,"endTime":1359.458,"body":"I don't know the infrastructure."},{"startTime":1359.458,"endTime":1360.058,"body":"Sure you do."},{"startTime":1360.115,"endTime":1362.715,"body":"I've written this story and you're"},{"startTime":1360.115,"endTime":1362.715,"body":"going like, that's gonna impact this"},{"startTime":1362.72,"endTime":1364.344,"body":"or no, that's freaking enormous."},{"startTime":1364.372,"endTime":1364.458,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":1364.715,"endTime":1366.058,"body":"You know that."},{"startTime":1366.058,"endTime":1366.658,"body":"Yes."},{"startTime":1366.715,"endTime":1367.229,"body":"Oh my gosh."},{"startTime":1367.229,"endTime":1368.544,"body":"I can't think of a better way."},{"startTime":1368.801,"endTime":1372.801,"body":"And a better way to learn as"},{"startTime":1368.801,"endTime":1372.801,"body":"well is to have that opportunity."},{"startTime":1372.801,"endTime":1377.229,"body":"And what I can tell you from being"},{"startTime":1372.801,"endTime":1377.229,"body":"so fortunate to have worked in"},{"startTime":1377.229,"endTime":1378.858,"body":"this industry in the before times."},{"startTime":1378.863,"endTime":1379.391,"body":"Mm-hmm."},{"startTime":1379.629,"endTime":1379.963,"body":"is."},{"startTime":1380.782,"endTime":1386.706,"body":"having that experience and knowing that"},{"startTime":1380.782,"endTime":1386.706,"body":"that is so far removed from the experience"},{"startTime":1386.706,"endTime":1389.591,"body":"that people have in general now."},{"startTime":1389.906,"endTime":1394.577,"body":"That as a product manager or"},{"startTime":1389.906,"endTime":1394.577,"body":"even a product owner coming in"},{"startTime":1395.406,"endTime":1396.92,"body":"and things run very differently."},{"startTime":1396.92,"endTime":1400.187,"body":"All, all, all of a sudden you don't,"},{"startTime":1396.92,"endTime":1400.187,"body":"you don't have that you don't have"},{"startTime":1400.187,"endTime":1405.358,"body":"the, the expertise to be able to"},{"startTime":1400.187,"endTime":1405.358,"body":"ask questions of right at hand there"},{"startTime":1405.358,"endTime":1406.844,"body":"isn't those drive-by opportunities."},{"startTime":1406.844,"endTime":1406.901,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":1406.929,"endTime":1411.158,"body":"And there isn't that opportunity"},{"startTime":1406.929,"endTime":1411.158,"body":"to visualize and to have that group"},{"startTime":1411.158,"endTime":1414.758,"body":"mindset where you start dissecting"},{"startTime":1411.158,"endTime":1414.758,"body":"and hearing other perspectives?"},{"startTime":1414.763,"endTime":1415.12,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":1415.644,"endTime":1416.101,"body":"Oh my gosh."},{"startTime":1416.106,"endTime":1418.644,"body":"I just, I'm getting goosebumps"},{"startTime":1416.106,"endTime":1418.644,"body":"thinking about it because those"},{"startTime":1418.644,"endTime":1421.491,"body":"were some of the best meetings ever."},{"startTime":1421.491,"endTime":1427.729,"body":"I learned so much and I felt as well that"},{"startTime":1421.491,"endTime":1427.729,"body":"I was able, to give something as well."},{"startTime":1427.729,"endTime":1427.787,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":1427.958,"endTime":1432.672,"body":"So even though I wasn't a developer, I was"},{"startTime":1427.958,"endTime":1432.672,"body":"able to give them something they needed."},{"startTime":1433.215,"endTime":1434.472,"body":"Yeah, be vulnerable, right?"},{"startTime":1434.472,"endTime":1436.358,"body":"Just go in and say, I don't know."},{"startTime":1436.615,"endTime":1436.958,"body":"Yes."},{"startTime":1436.958,"endTime":1437.929,"body":"Maybe we could do this."},{"startTime":1437.929,"endTime":1438.987,"body":"And they go, no, that's dumb."},{"startTime":1439.101,"endTime":1439.387,"body":"Okay."},{"startTime":1439.615,"endTime":1444.147,"body":"Well the other thing under the banner of"},{"startTime":1439.615,"endTime":1444.147,"body":"communicating like leadership is bringing"},{"startTime":1444.147,"endTime":1447.271,"body":"people bringing people in, like sprint"},{"startTime":1444.147,"endTime":1447.271,"body":"reviews is a quick and easy one that I"},{"startTime":1447.271,"endTime":1448.671,"body":"think of when I think of this category."},{"startTime":1448.9,"endTime":1450.043,"body":"Communicating like leadership."},{"startTime":1450.3,"endTime":1451.576,"body":"I, I think of all the teams that I."},{"startTime":1451.981,"endTime":1456.981,"body":"Been on that did not have a customer"},{"startTime":1451.981,"endTime":1456.981,"body":"representative at the Sprint reviews."},{"startTime":1457.181,"endTime":1461.324,"body":"That the, the first thing I did as a"},{"startTime":1457.181,"endTime":1461.324,"body":"product manager on the team was, Hey, why"},{"startTime":1461.324,"endTime":1464.752,"body":"don't we invite whoever we're building"},{"startTime":1461.324,"endTime":1464.752,"body":"the, these pieces of software for, why"},{"startTime":1464.752,"endTime":1466.181,"body":"don't we invite them to sprint review?"},{"startTime":1466.409,"endTime":1470.571,"body":"And then like, okay, well maybe we can"},{"startTime":1466.409,"endTime":1470.571,"body":"maybe, maybe for the first 10 minutes"},{"startTime":1470.571,"endTime":1473.8,"body":"or whatever the, the, the, the people"},{"startTime":1470.571,"endTime":1473.8,"body":"joining from outside the company will,"},{"startTime":1473.828,"endTime":1477.0,"body":"we'll show them their features and they"},{"startTime":1473.828,"endTime":1477.0,"body":"can drop off and then we'll segue into"},{"startTime":1477.0,"endTime":1479.419,"body":"more technical deeper dives or whatever."},{"startTime":1479.419,"endTime":1482.914,"body":"And that's cool if it's mul multiple"},{"startTime":1479.419,"endTime":1482.914,"body":"different personas that we're talking"},{"startTime":1482.914,"endTime":1487.638,"body":"about in the, in the review, I would hope"},{"startTime":1482.914,"endTime":1487.638,"body":"it's not, but,  it's reality, so whatever."},{"startTime":1487.876,"endTime":1491.59,"body":"The example I'm talking about is like"},{"startTime":1487.876,"endTime":1491.59,"body":"the team that never talks to customers."},{"startTime":1491.619,"endTime":1491.762,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":1492.019,"endTime":1493.39,"body":"That's easy to get over."},{"startTime":1493.562,"endTime":1497.076,"body":"But is it easy to get over or"},{"startTime":1493.562,"endTime":1497.076,"body":"does it just lead more into bot?"},{"startTime":1497.105,"endTime":1500.333,"body":"Like I'm, I'm inviting people"},{"startTime":1497.105,"endTime":1500.333,"body":"potentially from outside my company now."},{"startTime":1500.647,"endTime":1501.028,"body":"Mm-hmm."},{"startTime":1501.105,"endTime":1501.762,"body":"to the sprint reviews."},{"startTime":1502.057,"endTime":1504.809,"body":"Does that lend itself"},{"startTime":1502.057,"endTime":1504.809,"body":"more to imposter syndrome?"},{"startTime":1504.943,"endTime":1509.285,"body":"I think maybe at first it does, but over"},{"startTime":1504.943,"endTime":1509.285,"body":"time it does not, because over time you"},{"startTime":1509.285,"endTime":1514.114,"body":"will, by inviting the same people to"},{"startTime":1509.285,"endTime":1514.114,"body":"the sprint reviews and having people"},{"startTime":1514.114,"endTime":1516.871,"body":"learn other people's personalities"},{"startTime":1514.114,"endTime":1516.871,"body":"and talking with people and , you"},{"startTime":1516.876,"endTime":1521.09,"body":"develop a relationship and I think"},{"startTime":1516.876,"endTime":1521.09,"body":"the deeper that relationship goes, the"},{"startTime":1521.09,"endTime":1522.871,"body":"less imposter syndrome you will have."},{"startTime":1523.433,"endTime":1528.176,"body":"If you are deeply familiar with"},{"startTime":1523.433,"endTime":1528.176,"body":"people and their problems and their"},{"startTime":1528.176,"endTime":1531.376,"body":"personalities and the issues they"},{"startTime":1528.176,"endTime":1531.376,"body":"experience with the software or whatever."},{"startTime":1531.89,"endTime":1534.747,"body":"I would expect the, the normal biases."},{"startTime":1535.09,"endTime":1538.233,"body":"Well, I, I know these people,"},{"startTime":1535.09,"endTime":1538.233,"body":"they're, they're not others anymore."},{"startTime":1538.633,"endTime":1540.804,"body":"They're my tribe."},{"startTime":1540.957,"endTime":1541.228,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":1541.228,"endTime":1543.228,"body":"You know what's near and"},{"startTime":1541.228,"endTime":1543.228,"body":"dear to their hearts, right."},{"startTime":1543.233,"endTime":1543.8,"body":"By that stage."},{"startTime":1543.8,"endTime":1543.857,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":1544.038,"endTime":1545.681,"body":"But we're talking about"},{"startTime":1544.038,"endTime":1545.681,"body":"somebody coming into a."},{"startTime":1546.209,"endTime":1549.781,"body":"Organization in that case, you don't have"},{"startTime":1546.209,"endTime":1549.781,"body":"that, you don't have the relationships."},{"startTime":1549.981,"endTime":1553.352,"body":"I can't think of a better way to"},{"startTime":1549.981,"endTime":1553.352,"body":"build them than invite every persona"},{"startTime":1553.352,"endTime":1554.581,"body":"stakeholder into your review."},{"startTime":1554.781,"endTime":1557.733,"body":"Yeah, and start to forge that"},{"startTime":1554.781,"endTime":1557.733,"body":"as a PM you could start to"},{"startTime":1557.733,"endTime":1559.362,"body":"forge that relationship upfront."},{"startTime":1560.162,"endTime":1565.952,"body":"So I think to, I could, so from an"},{"startTime":1560.162,"endTime":1565.952,"body":"imposter syndrome perspective, yeah."},{"startTime":1566.028,"endTime":1570.195,"body":"In your specific example where you're"},{"startTime":1566.028,"endTime":1570.195,"body":"talking about bringing customers into a"},{"startTime":1570.195,"endTime":1576.395,"body":"sprint review for instance, which I have"},{"startTime":1570.195,"endTime":1576.395,"body":"found just change is a game changer."},{"startTime":1576.671,"endTime":1579.014,"body":"and, and isn't done enough."},{"startTime":1579.014,"endTime":1583.928,"body":"But I've also found that for the dev"},{"startTime":1579.014,"endTime":1583.928,"body":"team that has never done it or you know,"},{"startTime":1583.928,"endTime":1585.728,"body":"has been far removed from the customer."},{"startTime":1585.985,"endTime":1587.414,"body":"Oh, no, no, no, no, no, no."},{"startTime":1587.652,"endTime":1588.395,"body":"Oh my gosh."},{"startTime":1588.395,"endTime":1592.766,"body":"The fear and the it's loads"},{"startTime":1588.395,"endTime":1592.766,"body":"of, and, and leadership too."},{"startTime":1593.195,"endTime":1593.738,"body":"Same thing."},{"startTime":1593.738,"endTime":1596.023,"body":"No, we wouldn't want, those"},{"startTime":1593.738,"endTime":1596.023,"body":"are internal meetings."},{"startTime":1596.1,"endTime":1598.357,"body":"We wouldn't want customers"},{"startTime":1596.1,"endTime":1598.357,"body":"on, on, on those."},{"startTime":1598.557,"endTime":1601.581,"body":"Well, that's that, that, that's a, that's"},{"startTime":1598.557,"endTime":1601.581,"body":"a level of imposter syndrome right there."},{"startTime":1601.585,"endTime":1603.723,"body":"So it's, it's, I think, well,"},{"startTime":1601.585,"endTime":1603.723,"body":"it's a little different."},{"startTime":1603.728,"endTime":1605.381,"body":"It's not exactly imposter syndrome."},{"startTime":1605.381,"endTime":1606.676,"body":"So I think this is another, this."},{"startTime":1607.262,"endTime":1608.319,"body":"Something a little different."},{"startTime":1608.319,"endTime":1613.176,"body":"But if I'm thinking about from the product"},{"startTime":1608.319,"endTime":1613.176,"body":"perspective, who the product manager"},{"startTime":1613.176,"endTime":1619.443,"body":"that has imposter syndrome inviting"},{"startTime":1613.176,"endTime":1619.443,"body":"the customer could actually help, I"},{"startTime":1619.447,"endTime":1622.843,"body":"think, to alleviate so some of that."},{"startTime":1622.843,"endTime":1627.366,"body":"So initially I think there may be you"},{"startTime":1622.843,"endTime":1627.366,"body":"know, that hurdle that you need to get"},{"startTime":1627.366,"endTime":1630.252,"body":"over and you understand that there's"},{"startTime":1627.366,"endTime":1630.252,"body":"that hurdle, particularly with dev, at"},{"startTime":1630.252,"endTime":1631.966,"body":"least this is my personal experience."},{"startTime":1632.009,"endTime":1635.123,"body":".  Because you are a little bit"},{"startTime":1632.009,"endTime":1635.123,"body":"separated from Dev, it's a little"},{"startTime":1635.123,"endTime":1642.59,"body":"easier to kind of force that change,"},{"startTime":1635.123,"endTime":1642.59,"body":"and watch the relationship build."},{"startTime":1643.09,"endTime":1648.233,"body":"To see the success happen and to feel"},{"startTime":1643.09,"endTime":1648.233,"body":"that right, to have to, to be able to"},{"startTime":1648.233,"endTime":1652.114,"body":"demonstrate that even to leadership"},{"startTime":1648.233,"endTime":1652.114,"body":"and say, I have never seen anything"},{"startTime":1652.114,"endTime":1656.057,"body":"but positive outcome from bringing"},{"startTime":1652.114,"endTime":1656.057,"body":"from, from getting as close as we"},{"startTime":1656.057,"endTime":1660.114,"body":"can to that customer in regards to"},{"startTime":1656.057,"endTime":1660.114,"body":"feedback, but as often as we can."},{"startTime":1660.685,"endTime":1667.247,"body":"Uh, so I think that this may be a way"},{"startTime":1660.685,"endTime":1667.247,"body":"to to help this, the one other, one"},{"startTime":1667.252,"endTime":1673.343,"body":"other aspect of that is you are also"},{"startTime":1667.252,"endTime":1673.343,"body":"indirectly at that point, building"},{"startTime":1673.347,"endTime":1674.885,"body":"relationships with the customer."},{"startTime":1675.743,"endTime":1681.285,"body":"Who is also then kind of building up"},{"startTime":1675.743,"endTime":1681.285,"body":"your confidence and helping you to"},{"startTime":1681.285,"endTime":1683.743,"body":"kind of maybe overcome some of that."},{"startTime":1683.743,"endTime":1686.514,"body":"So there's a lot, there's a lot going"},{"startTime":1683.743,"endTime":1686.514,"body":"on there, but there's a, there is a"},{"startTime":1686.771,"endTime":1689.285,"body":"to your point, some time that needs"},{"startTime":1686.771,"endTime":1689.285,"body":"that, that needs to kind of Yeah."},{"startTime":1689.285,"endTime":1690.057,"body":"Happen over."},{"startTime":1690.062,"endTime":1693.814,"body":"You just walk through how to"},{"startTime":1690.062,"endTime":1693.814,"body":"get over imposter syndrome."},{"startTime":1693.814,"endTime":1696.814,"body":"Like, you, you have to build up"},{"startTime":1693.814,"endTime":1696.814,"body":"your relationship with the customer."},{"startTime":1696.814,"endTime":1697.043,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":1697.614,"endTime":1701.928,"body":"And over time, you, you feel"},{"startTime":1697.614,"endTime":1701.928,"body":"more free to kind of exchange"},{"startTime":1701.933,"endTime":1702.919,"body":"information back and forth."},{"startTime":1703.233,"endTime":1706.747,"body":"Like, that's again, all, all that sounds"},{"startTime":1703.233,"endTime":1706.747,"body":"like communicating, like leadership to me."},{"startTime":1707.262,"endTime":1709.633,"body":"The, the other thing we didn't cover"},{"startTime":1707.262,"endTime":1709.633,"body":"with communicating like leadership"},{"startTime":1709.638,"endTime":1714.985,"body":"is le like I do this with my product"},{"startTime":1709.638,"endTime":1714.985,"body":"vision a lot a lot like annoyingly"},{"startTime":1715.271,"endTime":1716.957,"body":"to all my stakeholders, a lot."},{"startTime":1717.157,"endTime":1718.5,"body":"Like I'll repeat the same thing."},{"startTime":1718.976,"endTime":1720.833,"body":"over and over and over again."},{"startTime":1721.776,"endTime":1728.26,"body":"And I, I told Om, , I had a CEO that"},{"startTime":1721.776,"endTime":1728.26,"body":"his leadership schpiel . schpiel."},{"startTime":1728.736,"endTime":1728.983,"body":"schpiel."},{"startTime":1729.007,"endTime":1730.641,"body":"Is there a S C h I, I don't know."},{"startTime":1730.641,"endTime":1734.298,"body":"Anyway, there is now, like he, yeah,"},{"startTime":1730.641,"endTime":1734.298,"body":"there is now um, his German version,"},{"startTime":1734.298,"endTime":1743.36,"body":"his, his, his spiel,  three, um was,"},{"startTime":1734.298,"endTime":1743.36,"body":"when you optimized for one group in the"},{"startTime":1743.364,"endTime":1747.502,"body":"company, you suboptimized for all the"},{"startTime":1743.364,"endTime":1747.502,"body":"other groups or something like that?"},{"startTime":1747.55,"endTime":1749.921,"body":"I thought it was nonsense"},{"startTime":1747.55,"endTime":1749.921,"body":"when I heard it originally."},{"startTime":1750.693,"endTime":1754.35,"body":"I still think it's nonsense to this"},{"startTime":1750.693,"endTime":1754.35,"body":"day, but I know he really believed"},{"startTime":1754.355,"endTime":1761.402,"body":"that because he repeated that"},{"startTime":1754.355,"endTime":1761.402,"body":"that tagline as often as he could."},{"startTime":1761.602,"endTime":1765.488,"body":"And you, if you read the working"},{"startTime":1761.602,"endTime":1765.488,"body":"backwards book about Amazon"},{"startTime":1765.488,"endTime":1767.307,"body":"and how Amazon kind of came."},{"startTime":1767.826,"endTime":1770.35,"body":"Um, that's one of the things"},{"startTime":1767.826,"endTime":1770.35,"body":"they tell you in that book is"},{"startTime":1770.445,"endTime":1772.017,"body":"you need to repeat your vision."},{"startTime":1772.331,"endTime":1775.045,"body":"Whatever your leadership vision"},{"startTime":1772.331,"endTime":1775.045,"body":"is, just keep repeating it over"},{"startTime":1775.045,"endTime":1775.874,"body":"and over and over and again."},{"startTime":1776.541,"endTime":1781.417,"body":", and like that will hold influence just"},{"startTime":1776.541,"endTime":1781.417,"body":"by itself, which is crazy to think about."},{"startTime":1781.417,"endTime":1784.645,"body":"Like, I just say the same thing"},{"startTime":1781.417,"endTime":1784.645,"body":"and I keep saying the same thing."},{"startTime":1784.902,"endTime":1787.074,"body":"People will start"},{"startTime":1784.902,"endTime":1787.074,"body":"believing Yeah, the same."},{"startTime":1787.074,"endTime":1790.674,"body":"Like, I mean, not in my, I gave"},{"startTime":1787.074,"endTime":1790.674,"body":"you a really terrible example"},{"startTime":1790.674,"endTime":1793.417,"body":"of people start, because I still"},{"startTime":1790.674,"endTime":1793.417,"body":"to this day don't believe it."},{"startTime":1793.464,"endTime":1799.607,"body":"I'm not saying it's not a genuinely"},{"startTime":1793.464,"endTime":1799.607,"body":"influential tactic to deploy."},{"startTime":1799.779,"endTime":1799.921,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":1800.15,"endTime":1803.436,"body":"Like, that's a, I want, I would like"},{"startTime":1800.15,"endTime":1803.436,"body":"to do a whole podcast on the Robert"},{"startTime":1803.436,"endTime":1808.274,"body":"Chialdini influence book where he outlines"},{"startTime":1803.436,"endTime":1808.274,"body":"a lot of little tactics like this."},{"startTime":1808.36,"endTime":1809.445,"body":"That would be a great podcast."},{"startTime":1809.445,"endTime":1809.731,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":1809.988,"endTime":1812.379,"body":"I mean, it would be long cause"},{"startTime":1809.988,"endTime":1812.379,"body":"that that book is not short, like"},{"startTime":1812.379,"endTime":1814.083,"body":"mindset and that book is not short."},{"startTime":1814.083,"endTime":1815.788,"body":"Like Marty Kagan Inspires"},{"startTime":1814.083,"endTime":1815.788,"body":"and stuff like that."},{"startTime":1815.793,"endTime":1816.788,"body":"That's a long book."},{"startTime":1816.788,"endTime":1817.531,"body":"It'd be a two-parter."},{"startTime":1817.531,"endTime":1821.764,"body":"Um, but, but there's a lot of"},{"startTime":1817.531,"endTime":1821.764,"body":"dirty tricks and  context inside of"},{"startTime":1821.769,"endTime":1824.726,"body":"that book for, for to help product"},{"startTime":1821.769,"endTime":1824.726,"body":"managers definitely to help them."},{"startTime":1825.402,"endTime":1827.831,"body":"I prefer the term guerilla tactics, yeah."},{"startTime":1827.888,"endTime":1828.288,"body":"Boy."},{"startTime":1828.293,"endTime":1828.717,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":1828.86,"endTime":1830.412,"body":"Than dirty tricks, dirty tricks."},{"startTime":1831.34,"endTime":1833.026,"body":"on the old Agile podcast."},{"startTime":1833.073,"endTime":1836.331,"body":"we can do a whole podcast on"},{"startTime":1833.073,"endTime":1836.331,"body":"communicating like leadership."},{"startTime":1836.807,"endTime":1839.807,"body":"I think the, the, the most effective"},{"startTime":1836.807,"endTime":1839.807,"body":"thing we can do in the time that we"},{"startTime":1839.811,"endTime":1844.645,"body":"have that doesn't get edited out of this"},{"startTime":1839.811,"endTime":1844.645,"body":"podcast,  is to talk about, metrics."},{"startTime":1844.697,"endTime":1849.926,"body":"One of the things I'd like to bring"},{"startTime":1844.697,"endTime":1849.926,"body":"up is all metrics being tied to money."},{"startTime":1850.183,"endTime":1854.383,"body":"Not proxy metrics, not"},{"startTime":1850.183,"endTime":1854.383,"body":"things tied, indirectly tied."},{"startTime":1854.554,"endTime":1857.411,"body":"Oh, these things are tied to hours"},{"startTime":1854.554,"endTime":1857.411,"body":"or these things are tied to whatever."},{"startTime":1857.554,"endTime":1861.154,"body":"No, I'm talking about metrics"},{"startTime":1857.554,"endTime":1861.154,"body":"that tied directly to money."},{"startTime":1861.383,"endTime":1867.069,"body":"One of the things I feel is in order"},{"startTime":1861.383,"endTime":1867.069,"body":"to present the cleanest metrics that"},{"startTime":1867.069,"endTime":1871.897,"body":"get you immediately as a leader in"},{"startTime":1867.069,"endTime":1871.897,"body":"the organization, one of the things"},{"startTime":1871.897,"endTime":1875.897,"body":"you can do to bring people along"},{"startTime":1871.897,"endTime":1875.897,"body":"with you is only talk about metrics"},{"startTime":1876.183,"endTime":1878.069,"body":"as they tie directly back to money."},{"startTime":1878.269,"endTime":1880.383,"body":"Don't ever talk about proxy metrics."},{"startTime":1881.211,"endTime":1882.811,"body":"We were talking about"},{"startTime":1881.211,"endTime":1882.811,"body":"this the other night."},{"startTime":1882.907,"endTime":1885.764,"body":"If you're going to be a"},{"startTime":1882.907,"endTime":1885.764,"body":"representative of leadership, you"},{"startTime":1885.764,"endTime":1887.821,"body":"have to talk in terms of money."},{"startTime":1888.107,"endTime":1888.192,"body":"Mm-hmm."},{"startTime":1888.669,"endTime":1888.869,"body":". Yeah."},{"startTime":1888.869,"endTime":1891.069,"body":"Anything else doesn't"},{"startTime":1888.869,"endTime":1891.069,"body":"really land with them."},{"startTime":1891.073,"endTime":1895.326,"body":"I feel, I mean, if you're a leader,"},{"startTime":1891.073,"endTime":1895.326,"body":"if you're a higher level leader and"},{"startTime":1895.326,"endTime":1899.34,"body":"somebody comes in and talks to you about"},{"startTime":1895.326,"endTime":1899.34,"body":"these other metrics, All you're thinking"},{"startTime":1899.34,"endTime":1901.254,"body":"about is when's he, she gonna shut up?"},{"startTime":1901.826,"endTime":1903.797,"body":"This is really not meaningful to me."},{"startTime":1903.997,"endTime":1904.054,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":1904.054,"endTime":1905.969,"body":"Like, tell me how it matters to me."},{"startTime":1906.111,"endTime":1909.55,"body":"So that WIIFM-ism again, right,"},{"startTime":1906.111,"endTime":1909.55,"body":"right, and to your point yeah."},{"startTime":1910.407,"endTime":1911.835,"body":"Distill it to the dollars."},{"startTime":1911.84,"endTime":1912.664,"body":"Are you saving money?"},{"startTime":1912.669,"endTime":1913.464,"body":"Are you making money?"},{"startTime":1913.521,"endTime":1914.378,"body":"What's going on?"},{"startTime":1914.864,"endTime":1917.121,"body":"There are some notable"},{"startTime":1914.864,"endTime":1917.121,"body":"exceptions to that, right?"},{"startTime":1917.121,"endTime":1920.892,"body":"When you bring in some ideas that"},{"startTime":1917.121,"endTime":1920.892,"body":"potentially might warrant investment,"},{"startTime":1921.092,"endTime":1924.392,"body":"but still turn that into like,"},{"startTime":1921.092,"endTime":1924.392,"body":"what is the potential benefit?"},{"startTime":1925.135,"endTime":1929.073,"body":"Use all kinds of financial metrics"},{"startTime":1925.135,"endTime":1929.073,"body":"if you want, but ROI gets banned"},{"startTime":1929.35,"endTime":1931.931,"body":"the bottom an awful lot, there"},{"startTime":1929.35,"endTime":1931.931,"body":"are other financial metrics."},{"startTime":1931.931,"endTime":1934.74,"body":"Oh, no, , I kind of wanna cut us straight"},{"startTime":1931.931,"endTime":1934.74,"body":"to a real example so we can talk about"},{"startTime":1934.816,"endTime":1938.759,"body":"something that will help people punch"},{"startTime":1934.816,"endTime":1938.759,"body":"through imposter syndrome as a PO or a pm."},{"startTime":1939.007,"endTime":1943.121,"body":"If you have a balance sheet, if you have"},{"startTime":1939.007,"endTime":1943.121,"body":"some kind of p and l Like, let's talk"},{"startTime":1943.121,"endTime":1945.426,"body":"about like monthly recurring revenue."},{"startTime":1945.569,"endTime":1948.397,"body":"Let's talk about any of the"},{"startTime":1945.569,"endTime":1948.397,"body":"pirate metrics, and I'll pull up"},{"startTime":1948.397,"endTime":1949.483,"body":"the pirate metrics in a minute."},{"startTime":1949.488,"endTime":1955.34,"body":"The A A A R R or a A R R, whatever"},{"startTime":1949.488,"endTime":1955.34,"body":"metrics, like any of those metrics."},{"startTime":1955.74,"endTime":1956.569,"body":"Are great."},{"startTime":1956.883,"endTime":1959.673,"body":"So if you're gonna talk about,"},{"startTime":1956.883,"endTime":1959.673,"body":"Hey, I'm gonna make a change in my"},{"startTime":1960.131,"endTime":1965.692,"body":"software, I'm gonna bank on making this"},{"startTime":1960.131,"endTime":1965.692,"body":"change will have an impact, and that"},{"startTime":1965.692,"endTime":1968.445,"body":"impact should be a monetary impact."},{"startTime":1968.759,"endTime":1972.588,"body":"I want to be able to show the impact of my"},{"startTime":1968.759,"endTime":1972.588,"body":"change on the monthly recurring revenue."},{"startTime":1972.759,"endTime":1977.273,"body":"So I'm showing you, Hey, I implemented"},{"startTime":1972.759,"endTime":1977.273,"body":"this software change, this new feature."},{"startTime":1977.331,"endTime":1977.416,"body":"Mm-hmm."},{"startTime":1977.959,"endTime":1979.645,"body":", you don't care to hear about the details."},{"startTime":1980.102,"endTime":1982.473,"body":"You don't care to know how we're"},{"startTime":1980.102,"endTime":1982.473,"body":"deploying the application or whatever."},{"startTime":1982.759,"endTime":1984.331,"body":"But what you do care about is."},{"startTime":1984.683,"endTime":1988.026,"body":"What is the impact of that change"},{"startTime":1984.683,"endTime":1988.026,"body":"on our monthly recurring revenue?"},{"startTime":1988.584,"endTime":1992.965,"body":"whatever change I make, I need"},{"startTime":1988.584,"endTime":1992.965,"body":"it to roll directly up to money."},{"startTime":1993.442,"endTime":1994.384,"body":"I absolutely agree."},{"startTime":1994.384,"endTime":1997.713,"body":"And look if you're in that role"},{"startTime":1994.384,"endTime":1997.713,"body":"where you really have just come in"},{"startTime":1997.718,"endTime":2000.342,"body":"and you don't know the depth, fine."},{"startTime":2000.627,"endTime":2002.313,"body":"Make assumptions, make them clear."},{"startTime":2002.427,"endTime":2002.57,"body":"Sure."},{"startTime":2002.57,"endTime":2007.189,"body":"You know, if we get a thousand"},{"startTime":2002.57,"endTime":2007.189,"body":"more people to click on this, a"},{"startTime":2007.58,"endTime":2008.818,"body":"thousand is an assumption, right?"},{"startTime":2008.818,"endTime":2008.904,"body":"Mm-hmm."},{"startTime":2009.275,"endTime":2009.561,"body":". Sure."},{"startTime":2009.589,"endTime":2009.818,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":2009.823,"endTime":2010.875,"body":"But but you're saying that too."},{"startTime":2010.875,"endTime":2013.332,"body":"You're not saying thousand people"},{"startTime":2010.875,"endTime":2013.332,"body":"will, you're saying if they"},{"startTime":2013.332,"endTime":2014.646,"body":"do, then this is what it means."},{"startTime":2014.904,"endTime":2016.704,"body":"And then use the power of extrapolation."},{"startTime":2016.708,"endTime":2017.904,"body":"What, what if it's 5,000?"},{"startTime":2017.904,"endTime":2018.97,"body":"What if it's 10,000?"},{"startTime":2018.975,"endTime":2019.218,"body":"Right?"},{"startTime":2019.332,"endTime":2020.161,"body":"And show that."},{"startTime":2020.532,"endTime":2022.399,"body":"I think that gets you mind share."},{"startTime":2022.561,"endTime":2025.475,"body":"That gets you to start talking about this"},{"startTime":2022.561,"endTime":2025.475,"body":"with the right people in the right way."},{"startTime":2025.923,"endTime":2027.923,"body":"and be ready for the"},{"startTime":2025.923,"endTime":2027.923,"body":"negative connotations too."},{"startTime":2027.923,"endTime":2029.98,"body":"What if only 50 people click on it?"},{"startTime":2030.265,"endTime":2032.265,"body":"How much are you spending"},{"startTime":2030.265,"endTime":2032.265,"body":"putting that feature in?"},{"startTime":2032.594,"endTime":2033.451,"body":"And what will you do?"},{"startTime":2033.765,"endTime":2037.651,"body":"So go in with those scenarios that,"},{"startTime":2033.765,"endTime":2037.651,"body":"okay, if all goes well, this is the"},{"startTime":2037.651,"endTime":2041.051,"body":"conversation I want to have, but I"},{"startTime":2037.651,"endTime":2041.051,"body":"also have as backup in my pocket."},{"startTime":2041.527,"endTime":2043.127,"body":"What will I do if there's only 50?"},{"startTime":2043.165,"endTime":2045.337,"body":"So maybe one of the tactics"},{"startTime":2043.165,"endTime":2045.337,"body":"might be, well, we're not gonna"},{"startTime":2045.337,"endTime":2046.823,"body":"immediately roll this out."},{"startTime":2046.851,"endTime":2050.794,"body":"Maybe we just do that with a focus"},{"startTime":2046.851,"endTime":2050.794,"body":"group or a pilot set of users"},{"startTime":2051.308,"endTime":2052.851,"body":"just to validate the assumptions."},{"startTime":2052.908,"endTime":2056.394,"body":"If you're going in and having those"},{"startTime":2052.908,"endTime":2056.394,"body":"discussions, I think you might actually"},{"startTime":2056.394,"endTime":2057.594,"body":"have a better chance to succeed."},{"startTime":2057.68,"endTime":2062.204,"body":"A couple of things I wanted to mention"},{"startTime":2057.68,"endTime":2062.204,"body":"in regards to tying metrics to money."},{"startTime":2062.584,"endTime":2066.837,"body":"From a health caregiver"},{"startTime":2062.584,"endTime":2066.837,"body":"perspective, that's uncomfortable."},{"startTime":2067.442,"endTime":2067.908,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":2067.913,"endTime":2071.737,"body":"So understood, but still uncomfortable."},{"startTime":2071.88,"endTime":2072.394,"body":"Yeah, right."},{"startTime":2072.394,"endTime":2074.48,"body":"So I can say that personally."},{"startTime":2075.28,"endTime":2081.499,"body":"That said, if what I have learned is"},{"startTime":2075.28,"endTime":2081.499,"body":"even when we're talking about metrics"},{"startTime":2081.504,"endTime":2085.375,"body":"like you know, improving healthcare gaps."},{"startTime":2085.756,"endTime":2087.27,"body":"We can still tie that to money."},{"startTime":2088.051,"endTime":2090.908,"body":"If we're measuring it, there's"},{"startTime":2088.051,"endTime":2090.908,"body":"almost nothing that we can't"},{"startTime":2090.908,"endTime":2091.965,"body":"in some way tie to money."},{"startTime":2092.118,"endTime":2094.661,"body":"This is where I want to be"},{"startTime":2092.118,"endTime":2094.661,"body":"with the pirate metrics."},{"startTime":2094.665,"endTime":2095.032,"body":"You're welcome."},{"startTime":2095.08,"endTime":2098.708,"body":"It's acquisition, activation,"},{"startTime":2095.08,"endTime":2098.708,"body":"retention, referral revenue."},{"startTime":2098.794,"endTime":2099.594,"body":"That's the model."},{"startTime":2099.851,"endTime":2101.213,"body":"A A R R R."},{"startTime":2101.394,"endTime":2105.927,"body":"And the idea is I don't want to implement"},{"startTime":2101.394,"endTime":2105.927,"body":"anything that doesn't fall under one"},{"startTime":2105.927,"endTime":2107.642,"body":"of these categories as improving."},{"startTime":2108.142,"endTime":2112.542,"body":"The money that comes from"},{"startTime":2108.142,"endTime":2112.542,"body":"acquisition, activation,"},{"startTime":2112.656,"endTime":2113.999,"body":"retention, and referral revenue."},{"startTime":2114.17,"endTime":2117.999,"body":"Back to my healthcare application,"},{"startTime":2114.17,"endTime":2117.999,"body":"Brian and Om's healthcare"},{"startTime":2117.999,"endTime":2119.227,"body":"application, don't worry."},{"startTime":2119.227,"endTime":2121.77,"body":"We're, I like that we're 18 months"},{"startTime":2119.227,"endTime":2121.77,"body":"away from selling our company again."},{"startTime":2122.027,"endTime":2128.304,"body":"Hey, listen we wanna boost retention"},{"startTime":2122.027,"endTime":2128.304,"body":"in our application because the idea"},{"startTime":2128.332,"endTime":2134.046,"body":"that we're going with is users who use"},{"startTime":2128.332,"endTime":2134.046,"body":"our application more and for a longer"},{"startTime":2134.046,"endTime":2140.361,"body":"period of time will become advocates"},{"startTime":2134.046,"endTime":2140.361,"body":"and they'll, they will be the people"},{"startTime":2140.361,"endTime":2142.646,"body":"that help us sell our application."},{"startTime":2142.77,"endTime":2147.675,"body":"we'll search for things to build and"},{"startTime":2142.77,"endTime":2147.675,"body":"we'll talk to those type of users to"},{"startTime":2147.675,"endTime":2148.932,"body":"figure out what we need to build next."},{"startTime":2149.17,"endTime":2151.365,"body":"We're going back to the"},{"startTime":2149.17,"endTime":2151.365,"body":"imposter syndrome, right?"},{"startTime":2151.661,"endTime":2153.842,"body":"Via via metrics."},{"startTime":2154.318,"endTime":2157.375,"body":"If you have a guide like this, so"},{"startTime":2154.318,"endTime":2157.375,"body":"like, oh, well, well what is this"},{"startTime":2157.375,"endTime":2158.489,"body":"feature that we want to implement?"},{"startTime":2158.518,"endTime":2159.432,"body":"Oh, oh, sales."},{"startTime":2159.432,"endTime":2161.975,"body":"You want to implement a new feature that"},{"startTime":2159.432,"endTime":2161.975,"body":"helps us sell a customer or whatever."},{"startTime":2162.289,"endTime":2164.061,"body":"Well, which categories this fall into?"},{"startTime":2164.975,"endTime":2168.851,"body":"I mean, does it, does it, does it help"},{"startTime":2164.975,"endTime":2168.851,"body":"us get more referrals to the application?"},{"startTime":2168.908,"endTime":2170.737,"body":"More signups in application."},{"startTime":2171.365,"endTime":2171.623,"body":"Okay."},{"startTime":2171.623,"endTime":2173.765,"body":"Well, our application's not"},{"startTime":2171.623,"endTime":2173.765,"body":"really you don't really get"},{"startTime":2173.765,"endTime":2174.651,"body":"signups in the application's?"},{"startTime":2174.651,"endTime":2175.051,"body":"Not really."},{"startTime":2175.137,"endTime":2176.023,"body":"That's not our business model."},{"startTime":2176.137,"endTime":2176.365,"body":"Okay."},{"startTime":2176.365,"endTime":2179.794,"body":"Well, it must help activate cut,"},{"startTime":2176.365,"endTime":2179.794,"body":"like people who sign up and sign"},{"startTime":2179.794,"endTime":2182.08,"body":"in for their first time and then"},{"startTime":2179.794,"endTime":2182.08,"body":"never come back or whatever."},{"startTime":2182.251,"endTime":2183.051,"body":"It must help with that."},{"startTime":2183.165,"endTime":2183.937,"body":"No, it doesn't help with that."},{"startTime":2184.08,"endTime":2185.394,"body":"Well, does it help with acquisition?"},{"startTime":2185.394,"endTime":2186.251,"body":"No, it doesn't help with that."},{"startTime":2186.256,"endTime":2190.48,"body":"Or does it help with like referral,"},{"startTime":2186.256,"endTime":2190.48,"body":"like bringing people in to the ecosystem"},{"startTime":2190.68,"endTime":2193.794,"body":"from other applications or other"},{"startTime":2190.68,"endTime":2193.794,"body":"places on the internet or whatever?"},{"startTime":2193.994,"endTime":2194.746,"body":"Well no."},{"startTime":2194.832,"endTime":2198.004,"body":"Well then it doesn't fit into"},{"startTime":2194.832,"endTime":2198.004,"body":"my vision for my product."},{"startTime":2198.089,"endTime":2201.118,"body":"And now you're back to like, oh, you"},{"startTime":2198.089,"endTime":2201.118,"body":"have your arms around the product."},{"startTime":2201.594,"endTime":2204.023,"body":", you have your metrics"},{"startTime":2201.594,"endTime":2204.023,"body":"directly tied to money."},{"startTime":2204.223,"endTime":2208.537,"body":"You have your vision and you've built"},{"startTime":2204.223,"endTime":2208.537,"body":"off of all these things and now you're"},{"startTime":2208.537,"endTime":2213.823,"body":"saying yes and no to features based"},{"startTime":2208.537,"endTime":2213.823,"body":"on where you think you're going and"},{"startTime":2213.88,"endTime":2218.051,"body":"where the money is leading you both,"},{"startTime":2213.88,"endTime":2218.051,"body":"because those are very different paths."},{"startTime":2218.051,"endTime":2220.604,"body":"I just wanna say absolutely"},{"startTime":2218.051,"endTime":2220.604,"body":"fully agree first of all."},{"startTime":2220.604,"endTime":2222.575,"body":"But there, there's also"},{"startTime":2220.604,"endTime":2222.575,"body":"another side, right?"},{"startTime":2222.575,"endTime":2225.584,"body":"So there's the, there's what you"},{"startTime":2222.575,"endTime":2225.584,"body":"just said about where's it gonna"},{"startTime":2225.584,"endTime":2228.07,"body":"mean revenue sources for us?"},{"startTime":2228.127,"endTime":2230.165,"body":"There's also the cost saving part."},{"startTime":2230.165,"endTime":2230.508,"body":"Right."},{"startTime":2230.708,"endTime":2232.813,"body":"Um reduce attrition for example."},{"startTime":2232.818,"endTime":2236.099,"body":"So this feature is going to make"},{"startTime":2232.818,"endTime":2236.099,"body":"sure that we lose fewer losers."},{"startTime":2236.104,"endTime":2236.204,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":2236.213,"endTime":2236.327,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":2236.356,"endTime":2239.184,"body":"That's still adding to the"},{"startTime":2236.356,"endTime":2239.184,"body":"bottom line acquisition on there."},{"startTime":2239.184,"endTime":2239.499,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":2239.504,"endTime":2240.013,"body":"Yeah, yeah."},{"startTime":2240.013,"endTime":2240.014,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":2240.07,"endTime":2242.765,"body":"So, so it's just it's not churn"},{"startTime":2240.07,"endTime":2242.765,"body":"just what's gonna Churn churn."},{"startTime":2242.765,"endTime":2243.223,"body":"Exactly."},{"startTime":2243.227,"endTime":2243.394,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":2243.394,"endTime":2243.956,"body":"That's the term."},{"startTime":2243.956,"endTime":2244.299,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":2244.823,"endTime":2247.365,"body":"Um, just be mindful of that for"},{"startTime":2244.823,"endTime":2247.365,"body":"those, those people out there"},{"startTime":2247.365,"endTime":2251.394,"body":"that just say, well, but you know,"},{"startTime":2247.365,"endTime":2251.394,"body":"my, my system doesn't do that."},{"startTime":2251.394,"endTime":2253.994,"body":"Or My product, my product's"},{"startTime":2251.394,"endTime":2253.994,"body":"geared towards, or my features"},{"startTime":2253.994,"endTime":2255.68,"body":"are geared towards saving money."},{"startTime":2255.851,"endTime":2257.137,"body":"They're equally valuable."},{"startTime":2257.165,"endTime":2257.308,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":2257.308,"endTime":2258.08,"body":"You're saving money."},{"startTime":2258.084,"endTime":2259.337,"body":"Just have a good case for it."},{"startTime":2259.889,"endTime":2263.637,"body":"what I was getting to is"},{"startTime":2259.889,"endTime":2263.637,"body":"that, I mean Money numbers."},{"startTime":2264.284,"endTime":2269.846,"body":"Being responsible for that"},{"startTime":2264.284,"endTime":2269.846,"body":"is really intimidating."},{"startTime":2270.618,"endTime":2271.046,"body":"No doubt."},{"startTime":2271.046,"endTime":2271.218,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":2271.246,"endTime":2272.761,"body":"Oh my goodness."},{"startTime":2272.765,"endTime":2275.508,"body":"I'm just saying not that you,"},{"startTime":2272.765,"endTime":2275.508,"body":"that that's part of your job."},{"startTime":2275.537,"endTime":2275.594,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":2275.599,"endTime":2276.337,"body":"As a product manager."},{"startTime":2276.337,"endTime":2280.194,"body":"But it's scary and coming"},{"startTime":2276.337,"endTime":2280.194,"body":"in new, it's super scary."},{"startTime":2280.765,"endTime":2282.651,"body":"It's like playing a roulette"},{"startTime":2280.765,"endTime":2282.651,"body":"with somebody else's money."},{"startTime":2283.099,"endTime":2286.613,"body":"You don't know what the outcome's"},{"startTime":2283.099,"endTime":2286.613,"body":"gonna be and there's high stakes"},{"startTime":2286.618,"endTime":2288.28,"body":"usually and you don't understand yet."},{"startTime":2288.28,"endTime":2290.07,"body":"You actually don't have an understanding."},{"startTime":2290.951,"endTime":2296.227,"body":"of you know, there's, there's time that"},{"startTime":2290.951,"endTime":2296.227,"body":"you need to be able to learn and hone"},{"startTime":2296.227,"endTime":2300.456,"body":"your skills and understand what numbers"},{"startTime":2296.227,"endTime":2300.456,"body":"matter, what money matters, where are"},{"startTime":2300.456,"endTime":2301.942,"body":"those pools, where are those buckets?"},{"startTime":2301.942,"endTime":2303.299,"body":"How do I prioritize those things?"},{"startTime":2303.994,"endTime":2307.594,"body":"And, and money is one of the, as a"},{"startTime":2303.994,"endTime":2307.594,"body":"hu one of the biggest, influences"},{"startTime":2307.594,"endTime":2309.651,"body":"in that prioritization perspective."},{"startTime":2309.656,"endTime":2309.737,"body":"Mm-hmm."},{"startTime":2309.818,"endTime":2309.823,"body":". Mm-hmm."},{"startTime":2310.365,"endTime":2316.404,"body":". But it's also calculating that and"},{"startTime":2310.365,"endTime":2316.404,"body":"then understanding it is, is in,"},{"startTime":2316.404,"endTime":2323.546,"body":"in intensely intimidating and there"},{"startTime":2316.404,"endTime":2323.546,"body":"isn't necessarily black and white when"},{"startTime":2323.546,"endTime":2324.861,"body":"you're dealing with money and numbers."},{"startTime":2324.918,"endTime":2328.832,"body":"Like when you're dealing with money"},{"startTime":2324.918,"endTime":2328.832,"body":"is some like No, we're talking"},{"startTime":2328.832,"endTime":2334.094,"body":"about We're arguing agile school"},{"startTime":2328.832,"endTime":2334.094,"body":"me, like I, I I don't agree."},{"startTime":2334.294,"endTime":2335.227,"body":"Um I, I,"},{"startTime":2335.704,"endTime":2338.675,"body":"like, I, I don't agree because like,"},{"startTime":2335.704,"endTime":2338.675,"body":"depending on the financial model"},{"startTime":2338.68,"endTime":2341.682,"body":"you're deploying in your software"},{"startTime":2338.68,"endTime":2341.682,"body":"development organization, especially"},{"startTime":2341.682,"endTime":2347.044,"body":"with companies that I see making"},{"startTime":2341.682,"endTime":2347.044,"body":"like deep, like 10%, 20% cuts."},{"startTime":2347.473,"endTime":2351.539,"body":"When I see that from like across"},{"startTime":2347.473,"endTime":2351.539,"body":"the room, I'm like, oh, you're"},{"startTime":2351.539,"endTime":2356.778,"body":"deploying a cost, cost-based"},{"startTime":2351.539,"endTime":2356.778,"body":"accounting model to an organization"},{"startTime":2356.806,"endTime":2358.92,"body":"where throughput is more important"},{"startTime":2359.616,"endTime":2362.901,"body":"Basically what you're thinking"},{"startTime":2359.616,"endTime":2362.901,"body":"is I have my cost of inventory."},{"startTime":2363.23,"endTime":2368.711,"body":"And my cost of payroll and my profit"},{"startTime":2363.23,"endTime":2368.711,"body":"from sales, and you will never balance"},{"startTime":2368.711,"endTime":2373.378,"body":"that number because that accounting"},{"startTime":2368.711,"endTime":2373.378,"body":"model will never work for you because"},{"startTime":2373.435,"endTime":2378.463,"body":"you, maybe your industry is changing"},{"startTime":2373.435,"endTime":2378.463,"body":"at a pace that you can't keep up with,"},{"startTime":2378.806,"endTime":2380.349,"body":"with this crappy accounting model."},{"startTime":2380.482,"endTime":2383.454,"body":"Without going into a"},{"startTime":2380.482,"endTime":2383.454,"body":"completely different podcast."},{"startTime":2383.482,"endTime":2388.368,"body":"You're trying to cut headcount to"},{"startTime":2383.482,"endTime":2388.368,"body":"make up for losses in other areas"},{"startTime":2388.654,"endTime":2392.825,"body":"where like the accounting model you're"},{"startTime":2388.654,"endTime":2392.825,"body":"deploying is failing you because"},{"startTime":2392.873,"endTime":2395.158,"body":"all you have is lagging indicators."},{"startTime":2395.301,"endTime":2395.473,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":2395.478,"endTime":2395.844,"body":"Okay."},{"startTime":2395.844,"endTime":2402.368,"body":"In quarter, whatever, we punched"},{"startTime":2395.844,"endTime":2402.368,"body":"out 25% less profit, oh, oh snap."},{"startTime":2402.368,"endTime":2406.997,"body":"We need to run out and fire 10% of"},{"startTime":2402.368,"endTime":2406.997,"body":"our workforce to balance those numbers"},{"startTime":2406.997,"endTime":2410.625,"body":"back, to make it look like we're doing"},{"startTime":2406.997,"endTime":2410.625,"body":"good in the next quarter or whatever."},{"startTime":2410.768,"endTime":2411.368,"body":"Why not?"},{"startTime":2411.397,"endTime":2415.178,"body":"Why not fire 50% of your workforce to make"},{"startTime":2411.397,"endTime":2415.178,"body":"yourself look great in the next quarter?"},{"startTime":2415.32,"endTime":2417.778,"body":"Because you're just dealing"},{"startTime":2415.32,"endTime":2417.778,"body":"with lagging indicators."},{"startTime":2417.949,"endTime":2418.892,"body":"That's not great."},{"startTime":2419.092,"endTime":2423.378,"body":"Like you need to deal with the"},{"startTime":2419.092,"endTime":2423.378,"body":"throughput immediately so you"},{"startTime":2423.378,"endTime":2425.263,"body":"can see if your demand increases."},{"startTime":2425.378,"endTime":2429.378,"body":"You can see that daily"},{"startTime":2425.378,"endTime":2429.378,"body":"and respond to it daily."},{"startTime":2429.749,"endTime":2435.549,"body":"If your throughput drops , in the week"},{"startTime":2429.749,"endTime":2435.549,"body":"over week, you can see that weekly, and"},{"startTime":2435.549,"endTime":2440.949,"body":"you can respond to it weekly if you don't"},{"startTime":2435.549,"endTime":2440.949,"body":"get a chance to change your business."},{"startTime":2441.549,"endTime":2442.835,"body":"But once a year."},{"startTime":2443.311,"endTime":2444.578,"body":"Once a quarter, yeah."},{"startTime":2445.406,"endTime":2446.863,"body":"That's ludicrous to me."},{"startTime":2446.968,"endTime":2448.454,"body":"We're talking about metrics"},{"startTime":2446.968,"endTime":2448.454,"body":"being tied into money."},{"startTime":2448.454,"endTime":2449.397,"body":"That's what we're talking about now."},{"startTime":2449.466,"endTime":2449.666,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":2449.666,"endTime":2452.066,"body":"So the time element that,"},{"startTime":2449.666,"endTime":2452.066,"body":"that you refer to, right."},{"startTime":2452.066,"endTime":2456.533,"body":"How many times have we seen"},{"startTime":2452.066,"endTime":2456.533,"body":"supposedly very stable companies"},{"startTime":2456.59,"endTime":2459.733,"body":"on that slow death march . Right."},{"startTime":2459.819,"endTime":2461.847,"body":"To uh, basically obscurity."},{"startTime":2461.847,"endTime":2462.247,"body":"I mean Sure."},{"startTime":2462.39,"endTime":2463.676,"body":"We've talked about that before."},{"startTime":2463.705,"endTime":2463.99,"body":"Right."},{"startTime":2463.99,"endTime":2467.114,"body":"Some household names not"},{"startTime":2463.99,"endTime":2467.114,"body":"necessarily because of this,"},{"startTime":2467.114,"endTime":2468.6,"body":"but this is a big part of this."},{"startTime":2468.6,"endTime":2468.857,"body":"Sure."},{"startTime":2469.0,"endTime":2469.114,"body":"Right."},{"startTime":2469.114,"endTime":2472.285,"body":"And then the, the other part"},{"startTime":2469.114,"endTime":2472.285,"body":"probably, I don't know, just as big,"},{"startTime":2472.285,"endTime":2474.8,"body":"I suppose, is ignoring the customer."},{"startTime":2474.838,"endTime":2475.371,"body":"Right."},{"startTime":2475.828,"endTime":2477.085,"body":"Which is a guarantee."},{"startTime":2477.257,"endTime":2477.657,"body":"Oh boy."},{"startTime":2477.685,"endTime":2479.514,"body":"To slide down that path and, and yeah."},{"startTime":2479.514,"endTime":2480.943,"body":"So I think that's a different podcast."},{"startTime":2480.99,"endTime":2484.362,"body":"This is, this is why it's important to tie"},{"startTime":2480.99,"endTime":2484.362,"body":"metrics, like every metric you follow as"},{"startTime":2484.362,"endTime":2489.305,"body":"a product manager to tie it directly back"},{"startTime":2484.362,"endTime":2489.305,"body":"to money, because that is a language that,"},{"startTime":2489.305,"endTime":2491.647,"body":"that, that's leadership's love language."},{"startTime":2491.676,"endTime":2498.724,"body":"Well, so Brian, you have brought up a"},{"startTime":2491.676,"endTime":2498.724,"body":"lot of great points and absolutely agree."},{"startTime":2499.638,"endTime":2503.714,"body":"What I, but when we were, we were"},{"startTime":2499.638,"endTime":2503.714,"body":"talking about imposter syndrome and"},{"startTime":2503.714,"endTime":2508.481,"body":"maybe starting at a new company or in"},{"startTime":2503.714,"endTime":2508.481,"body":"a new domain or complete, and we've"},{"startTime":2508.481,"endTime":2512.876,"body":"talked about getting a, getting a"},{"startTime":2508.481,"endTime":2512.876,"body":"feel for the politics, understanding"},{"startTime":2512.876,"endTime":2513.905,"body":"leadership, all those things."},{"startTime":2514.505,"endTime":2518.362,"body":"This is a whole new level, a whole"},{"startTime":2514.505,"endTime":2518.362,"body":"new language to your point, this"},{"startTime":2518.362,"endTime":2519.619,"body":"is the leadership love language."},{"startTime":2519.619,"endTime":2519.847,"body":"Right."},{"startTime":2519.852,"endTime":2522.247,"body":"But it's a completely different mindset."},{"startTime":2522.905,"endTime":2525.762,"body":"A completely different, like"},{"startTime":2522.905,"endTime":2525.762,"body":"a skillset, I should say."},{"startTime":2525.766,"endTime":2525.819,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":2525.962,"endTime":2530.105,"body":"A completely different skillset that"},{"startTime":2525.962,"endTime":2530.105,"body":"also needs to be learned and honed"},{"startTime":2530.39,"endTime":2536.105,"body":"and be, be able to understand how"},{"startTime":2530.39,"endTime":2536.105,"body":"to tie your product to that money."},{"startTime":2536.105,"endTime":2538.19,"body":"It's easy to feel inadequate."},{"startTime":2538.19,"endTime":2539.733,"body":"You've not gone to school for finance."},{"startTime":2539.99,"endTime":2543.438,"body":"You might inherit another team"},{"startTime":2539.99,"endTime":2543.438,"body":"involved in another like an"},{"startTime":2543.438,"endTime":2545.524,"body":"exploratory line of business mm-hmm."},{"startTime":2545.781,"endTime":2548.781,"body":"that you might have to learn"},{"startTime":2545.781,"endTime":2548.781,"body":"quickly and that like, that's cool."},{"startTime":2548.895,"endTime":2552.181,"body":"Like there's obviously gonna be imposter"},{"startTime":2548.895,"endTime":2552.181,"body":"syndrome in that there, there will"},{"startTime":2552.181,"endTime":2555.552,"body":"be for your whole team when you're"},{"startTime":2552.181,"endTime":2555.552,"body":"doing something for the first time."},{"startTime":2555.895,"endTime":2556.009,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":2556.124,"endTime":2558.324,"body":"There certainly will be something"},{"startTime":2556.124,"endTime":2558.324,"body":"I think that's natural, right?"},{"startTime":2558.324,"endTime":2558.609,"body":"Sure."},{"startTime":2559.085,"endTime":2560.962,"body":"Maybe so, I, I don't know."},{"startTime":2560.962,"endTime":2565.619,"body":"I mean, imposter Yeah, maybe so that"},{"startTime":2560.962,"endTime":2565.619,"body":"feeling of inadequacy or the, the"},{"startTime":2566.219,"endTime":2570.676,"body":"even so I, I think even in the face"},{"startTime":2566.219,"endTime":2570.676,"body":"of a good work, so the, that you don't"},{"startTime":2570.676,"endTime":2574.019,"body":"deserve, like that's generally the"},{"startTime":2570.676,"endTime":2574.019,"body":"imposter syndrome is like you don't"},{"startTime":2574.59,"endTime":2577.047,"body":"Well that's that is negative self-talk."},{"startTime":2577.047,"endTime":2579.266,"body":"That, that is the Carol"},{"startTime":2577.047,"endTime":2579.266,"body":"Dweck mindset podcast."},{"startTime":2580.105,"endTime":2583.247,"body":", Hey, go listen to our"},{"startTime":2580.105,"endTime":2583.247,"body":"podcast, episode 100."},{"startTime":2583.419,"endTime":2583.99,"body":". There it is."},{"startTime":2584.641,"endTime":2585.07,"body":". YouTube."},{"startTime":2585.07,"endTime":2587.47,"body":"People will tell you that's a"},{"startTime":2585.07,"endTime":2587.47,"body":"way to promote your podcast."},{"startTime":2587.479,"endTime":2591.022,"body":"I think we might be now kind of"},{"startTime":2587.479,"endTime":2591.022,"body":"drifting to that last bullet."},{"startTime":2591.108,"endTime":2591.336,"body":"Right."},{"startTime":2591.365,"endTime":2594.484,"body":"Never stop learning, because I,"},{"startTime":2591.365,"endTime":2594.484,"body":"I think that's where it's going."},{"startTime":2595.093,"endTime":2598.636,"body":"Yeah, in our recent discussion in"},{"startTime":2595.093,"endTime":2598.636,"body":"regards this never stop learning is"},{"startTime":2598.693,"endTime":2605.151,"body":"that there is never an opportunity"},{"startTime":2598.693,"endTime":2605.151,"body":"where you can stop learning."},{"startTime":2605.712,"endTime":2612.427,"body":"You must continuously learn and you"},{"startTime":2605.712,"endTime":2612.427,"body":"must be proactive about that to be"},{"startTime":2612.751,"endTime":2617.07,"body":"relevant and to be successful in product."},{"startTime":2617.165,"endTime":2620.365,"body":"You, you must, and so we had"},{"startTime":2617.165,"endTime":2620.365,"body":"mentioned, for instance, a lot of"},{"startTime":2620.393,"endTime":2624.074,"body":"the certification factory kind of"},{"startTime":2620.393,"endTime":2624.074,"body":"going, going around that people study"},{"startTime":2624.074,"endTime":2626.503,"body":"and they read books or whatever, and"},{"startTime":2624.074,"endTime":2626.503,"body":"then they pass and they get their"},{"startTime":2626.503,"endTime":2627.674,"body":"certification and they're like, cool."},{"startTime":2627.679,"endTime":2627.96,"body":"Done."},{"startTime":2627.96,"endTime":2628.189,"body":"All right."},{"startTime":2628.189,"endTime":2628.846,"body":"Got my job."},{"startTime":2628.874,"endTime":2629.217,"body":"Yay."},{"startTime":2629.246,"endTime":2629.674,"body":"All right."},{"startTime":2629.674,"endTime":2630.332,"body":"I'm the expert now."},{"startTime":2630.332,"endTime":2634.903,"body":"Right but this is a craft that has to"},{"startTime":2630.332,"endTime":2634.903,"body":"be honed, and I would say particularly"},{"startTime":2634.903,"endTime":2640.017,"body":"now because we have moved to away from"},{"startTime":2634.903,"endTime":2640.017,"body":"co-located work where we don't have the"},{"startTime":2640.022,"endTime":2646.255,"body":"opportunity to work with other people and"},{"startTime":2640.022,"endTime":2646.255,"body":"really learn kind of, really on the job."},{"startTime":2646.312,"endTime":2646.484,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":2646.827,"endTime":2651.598,"body":"That you have to be very proactive, and,"},{"startTime":2646.827,"endTime":2651.598,"body":"and getting involved in your community."},{"startTime":2651.874,"endTime":2656.446,"body":"You know, in regards to agile business"},{"startTime":2651.874,"endTime":2656.446,"body":"being a part of that community"},{"startTime":2656.503,"endTime":2660.712,"body":"learning, investing time giving back"},{"startTime":2656.503,"endTime":2660.712,"body":"to that community as well, to your"},{"startTime":2660.712,"endTime":2665.693,"body":"point of you know, of, of not just"},{"startTime":2660.712,"endTime":2665.693,"body":"learning, but providing learning."},{"startTime":2665.698,"endTime":2669.927,"body":"Feeding our culture feed, feeding"},{"startTime":2665.698,"endTime":2669.927,"body":"the the, the younger generation"},{"startTime":2669.927,"endTime":2671.784,"body":"and the people coming after us."},{"startTime":2671.841,"endTime":2671.927,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":2672.212,"endTime":2675.727,"body":"But yeah, I think that's my"},{"startTime":2672.212,"endTime":2675.727,"body":"point is that the journey never"},{"startTime":2675.727,"endTime":2677.755,"body":"ends when it comes to learning."},{"startTime":2677.76,"endTime":2680.698,"body":"And I think that probably is"},{"startTime":2677.76,"endTime":2680.698,"body":"with everything, but, oh my gosh."},{"startTime":2680.698,"endTime":2683.355,"body":"Anything to do with"},{"startTime":2680.698,"endTime":2683.355,"body":"product or, or software."},{"startTime":2683.412,"endTime":2683.498,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":2683.508,"endTime":2684.47,"body":"It just is a given."},{"startTime":2684.527,"endTime":2684.812,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":2685.108,"endTime":2686.308,"body":"The learning never ends."},{"startTime":2686.622,"endTime":2690.527,"body":"So the organization should be"},{"startTime":2686.622,"endTime":2690.527,"body":"designed from the perspective"},{"startTime":2690.527,"endTime":2691.698,"body":"that the learning never ends."},{"startTime":2691.841,"endTime":2695.47,"body":"You're talking about the organization"},{"startTime":2691.841,"endTime":2695.47,"body":"being a learning organization."},{"startTime":2695.474,"endTime":2695.546,"body":"Yes."},{"startTime":2695.551,"endTime":2695.67,"body":"Right?"},{"startTime":2695.674,"endTime":2695.898,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":2695.984,"endTime":2697.374,"body":"Or growth mindset organization."},{"startTime":2697.374,"endTime":2697.584,"body":"Growth mindset."},{"startTime":2697.612,"endTime":2697.755,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":2698.127,"endTime":2702.127,"body":"This goes way back to Peter Senge days"},{"startTime":2698.127,"endTime":2702.127,"body":"in the eighties when he came up with it."},{"startTime":2702.127,"endTime":2702.612,"body":"First."},{"startTime":2703.012,"endTime":2705.67,"body":"The concept of the learning organization."},{"startTime":2705.984,"endTime":2706.47,"body":"It's real."},{"startTime":2706.527,"endTime":2707.403,"body":"I mean, yous real."},{"startTime":2707.403,"endTime":2709.984,"body":"You see some organizations"},{"startTime":2707.403,"endTime":2709.984,"body":"that foster that culture."},{"startTime":2710.041,"endTime":2710.127,"body":"Mm-hmm."},{"startTime":2710.355,"endTime":2711.555,"body":"and they do so much better."},{"startTime":2711.936,"endTime":2714.246,"body":"And it's not just like, oh,"},{"startTime":2711.936,"endTime":2714.246,"body":"they're seem to be better."},{"startTime":2714.246,"endTime":2717.503,"body":"No, they do better in"},{"startTime":2714.246,"endTime":2717.503,"body":"terms of their bottom line."},{"startTime":2717.503,"endTime":2718.532,"body":"Quantifiably."},{"startTime":2718.532,"endTime":2719.132,"body":"Exactly."},{"startTime":2719.17,"endTime":2721.903,"body":"These organizations do better, do better."},{"startTime":2722.112,"endTime":2723.055,"body":"Yes, they do."},{"startTime":2723.055,"endTime":2723.427,"body":"Do."},{"startTime":2723.855,"endTime":2724.255,"body":"So."},{"startTime":2724.551,"endTime":2729.236,"body":"So in regards to learning when we're"},{"startTime":2724.551,"endTime":2729.236,"body":"talking about bringing this back to"},{"startTime":2729.236,"endTime":2734.446,"body":"imposter syndrome, there's no single"},{"startTime":2729.236,"endTime":2734.446,"body":"solution to i imposter syndrome"},{"startTime":2734.446,"endTime":2736.732,"body":"or lack of confidence or Right."},{"startTime":2737.103,"endTime":2737.274,"body":"But."},{"startTime":2737.903,"endTime":2742.981,"body":"What the what knowledge can do and"},{"startTime":2737.903,"endTime":2742.981,"body":"you furthering your understanding can"},{"startTime":2743.372,"endTime":2746.867,"body":"increase your confidence while increasing"},{"startTime":2743.372,"endTime":2746.867,"body":"your skills, while building empathy"},{"startTime":2746.867,"endTime":2750.848,"body":"and understanding for the leadership,"},{"startTime":2746.867,"endTime":2750.848,"body":"for instance and, and then when we"},{"startTime":2750.848,"endTime":2754.991,"body":"understand that our, a company is"},{"startTime":2750.848,"endTime":2754.991,"body":"relying on us, teams are relying on us."},{"startTime":2755.019,"endTime":2759.296,"body":"This lines up to my thinking is that"},{"startTime":2755.019,"endTime":2759.296,"body":"when you're in the product owner slash"},{"startTime":2759.324,"endTime":2765.924,"body":"product manager role, you are empowered"},{"startTime":2759.324,"endTime":2765.924,"body":"for the business to own own this."},{"startTime":2766.181,"endTime":2768.039,"body":"I was doing air quotes for"},{"startTime":2766.181,"endTime":2768.039,"body":"people listening to the audio,"},{"startTime":2768.219,"endTime":2769.305,"body":"this segment of the business."},{"startTime":2769.305,"endTime":2770.905,"body":"So if it fails, it's on you."},{"startTime":2771.019,"endTime":2772.677,"body":"If it succeeds, it's also on you."},{"startTime":2772.781,"endTime":2773.086,"body":"Mm-hmm."},{"startTime":2773.162,"endTime":2775.191,"body":". So do whatever you need"},{"startTime":2773.162,"endTime":2775.191,"body":"to make it succeed."},{"startTime":2776.048,"endTime":2777.277,"body":"Oh, I like that."},{"startTime":2777.281,"endTime":2777.934,"body":"Did you hear that?"},{"startTime":2777.934,"endTime":2778.505,"body":"You're a poet."},{"startTime":2778.981,"endTime":2781.096,"body":"Do whatever you need to"},{"startTime":2778.981,"endTime":2781.096,"body":"make it succeed only."},{"startTime":2781.096,"endTime":2782.753,"body":"Yeah, that's a great tagline."},{"startTime":2782.81,"endTime":2786.896,"body":"I think we could possibly end"},{"startTime":2782.81,"endTime":2786.896,"body":"this podcast on that tagline."},{"startTime":2786.981,"endTime":2787.751,"body":"All right, well, we're done."}]}