{"version":"1.0.0","segments":[{"startTime":0.075,"endTime":2.245,"body":"Why does Agile need PRDs?"},{"startTime":2.335,"endTime":4.595,"body":"Why use PRDs in Agile development?"},{"startTime":4.605,"endTime":8.205,"body":"When you go through your two day CSM"},{"startTime":4.605,"endTime":8.205,"body":"or like if you work on development"},{"startTime":8.205,"endTime":11.575,"body":"teams, you may have never even been"},{"startTime":8.205,"endTime":11.575,"body":"exposed to a PRD in your whole career."},{"startTime":11.575,"endTime":14.285,"body":"And then you'll, you'll roll into"},{"startTime":11.575,"endTime":14.285,"body":"one of these shops that say, Oh,"},{"startTime":14.285,"endTime":15.815,"body":"well now we need you to do a PRD."},{"startTime":16.005,"endTime":16.935,"body":"Now luckily."},{"startTime":17.3,"endTime":21.97,"body":"I had been exposed to PRDs way"},{"startTime":17.3,"endTime":21.97,"body":"early in my career when I was a team"},{"startTime":21.98,"endTime":26.393,"body":"member, but the product requirement"},{"startTime":21.98,"endTime":26.393,"body":"documents that I was exposed to early"},{"startTime":26.393,"endTime":34.753,"body":"in my career were very exhaustive,"},{"startTime":26.393,"endTime":34.753,"body":"top to bottom business UML diagrams."},{"startTime":35.063,"endTime":37.493,"body":"I mean, thick books of requirements."},{"startTime":37.493,"endTime":40.943,"body":"And, we just don't do that,"},{"startTime":37.493,"endTime":40.943,"body":"in agile software development."},{"startTime":41.223,"endTime":45.573,"body":"So if you're, if you're in the world of"},{"startTime":41.223,"endTime":45.573,"body":"agile software development and you hear"},{"startTime":45.593,"endTime":50.393,"body":"about PRDs or you got a job as a product"},{"startTime":45.593,"endTime":50.393,"body":"manager and you're being asked to do a"},{"startTime":50.393,"endTime":52.473,"body":"PRD and you've never, done one before."},{"startTime":52.773,"endTime":55.733,"body":"Or maybe you don't want to"},{"startTime":52.773,"endTime":55.733,"body":"do one and you're kind of"},{"startTime":55.733,"endTime":57.083,"body":"resisting your organization."},{"startTime":57.153,"endTime":59.19,"body":"this is what we're going"},{"startTime":57.153,"endTime":59.19,"body":"to cover in this podcast."},{"startTime":59.273,"endTime":60.033,"body":"What are they?"},{"startTime":60.213,"endTime":61.023,"body":"Should you do them?"},{"startTime":61.333,"endTime":62.673,"body":"How do other companies do them?"},{"startTime":62.763,"endTime":63.733,"body":"What are they for?"},{"startTime":63.853,"endTime":66.913,"body":"And how, you know, potentially"},{"startTime":63.853,"endTime":66.913,"body":"how to do them by sharing the"},{"startTime":66.913,"endTime":68.053,"body":"templates and things like that."},{"startTime":68.723,"endTime":70.693,"body":"To PRD or not to PRD?"},{"startTime":70.793,"endTime":71.883,"body":"That is the question."},{"startTime":72.236,"endTime":75.446,"body":"Maybe we could just start talking about"},{"startTime":72.236,"endTime":75.446,"body":"what PRD stands for as an acronym."},{"startTime":75.506,"endTime":79.906,"body":"And so a lot of the Agilists of today"},{"startTime":75.506,"endTime":79.906,"body":"may not have heard the term PRD."},{"startTime":80.406,"endTime":84.316,"body":"And if you haven't, it stands for"},{"startTime":80.406,"endTime":84.316,"body":"product requirements document."},{"startTime":84.826,"endTime":88.566,"body":"There are other types of documents"},{"startTime":84.826,"endTime":88.566,"body":"that kind of allied, or I"},{"startTime":88.566,"endTime":89.696,"body":"guess they fall out of there."},{"startTime":89.921,"endTime":95.561,"body":"Technical requirements document or,"},{"startTime":89.921,"endTime":95.561,"body":"functional requirements document."},{"startTime":95.571,"endTime":99.621,"body":"Those aren't part of this podcast"},{"startTime":95.571,"endTime":99.621,"body":"necessarily because they're fairly"},{"startTime":99.621,"endTime":103.015,"body":"well, I think, covered elsewhere, but"},{"startTime":99.621,"endTime":103.015,"body":"they're also obsolete or obsolete."},{"startTime":103.685,"endTime":103.945,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":103.945,"endTime":104.145,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":104.145,"endTime":108.651,"body":"As I said, they're no longer relevant,"},{"startTime":104.145,"endTime":108.651,"body":"for, for our needs today, or have been"},{"startTime":108.651,"endTime":110.691,"body":"replaced by other things, other tools."},{"startTime":110.878,"endTime":112.058,"body":"Let's dive into this."},{"startTime":112.623,"endTime":116.393,"body":"We've searched all of the"},{"startTime":112.623,"endTime":116.393,"body":"internet and we've chosen a few"},{"startTime":116.453,"endTime":119.183,"body":"good examples of PRDs to show."},{"startTime":119.803,"endTime":125.093,"body":"So we're going to show the, the outlines"},{"startTime":119.803,"endTime":125.093,"body":"of PRDs from a couple different places."},{"startTime":125.373,"endTime":129.433,"body":"The first one to highlight"},{"startTime":125.373,"endTime":129.433,"body":"is Amazon's six pager."},{"startTime":130.323,"endTime":134.193,"body":"If you're, if you're listening on"},{"startTime":130.323,"endTime":134.193,"body":"audio, I'm going to denote each"},{"startTime":134.263,"endTime":136.293,"body":"section of the Amazon, six pager."},{"startTime":136.783,"endTime":141.773,"body":"And, if you're watching, I'll put"},{"startTime":136.783,"endTime":141.773,"body":"the bulleted list next to me on the"},{"startTime":141.773,"endTime":144.753,"body":"screen as we walk through rather than"},{"startTime":141.773,"endTime":144.753,"body":"trying to, Jockey back and forth."},{"startTime":144.753,"endTime":145.163,"body":"Oh, yeah."},{"startTime":145.163,"endTime":145.343,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":145.343,"endTime":146.583,"body":"Yeah, it'll make you dizzy."},{"startTime":146.733,"endTime":151.653,"body":"The amazon six pager Which basically is a"},{"startTime":146.733,"endTime":151.653,"body":"prd like whether you want to call it that"},{"startTime":151.653,"endTime":154.563,"body":"or not I don't know if people are gonna"},{"startTime":151.653,"endTime":154.563,"body":"like throw a fit whether i'm calling the"},{"startTime":154.563,"endTime":159.443,"body":"amazon six pager prd, but we outline their"},{"startTime":154.563,"endTime":159.443,"body":"process, their process being picking a"},{"startTime":159.463,"endTime":164.063,"body":"single threaded leader in the organization"},{"startTime":159.463,"endTime":164.063,"body":"who just does that one initiative, that"},{"startTime":164.063,"endTime":167.303,"body":"one business initiative, and carries"},{"startTime":164.063,"endTime":167.303,"body":"it out into the market and oversees it."},{"startTime":167.333,"endTime":169.423,"body":"That basically is a"},{"startTime":167.333,"endTime":169.423,"body":"product manager anyway."},{"startTime":169.486,"endTime":169.746,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":169.953,"endTime":172.303,"body":"And their outline, is as follows."},{"startTime":172.953,"endTime":176.263,"body":"Number one is the, the list of"},{"startTime":172.953,"endTime":176.263,"body":"purpose of the document, right?"},{"startTime":176.273,"endTime":180.423,"body":"They'll, they'll outline The reason"},{"startTime":176.273,"endTime":180.423,"body":"for the solution, they'll outline,"},{"startTime":181.053,"endTime":182.853,"body":"it's like an executive summary session."},{"startTime":183.573,"endTime":183.843,"body":"Right?"},{"startTime":183.843,"endTime":186.643,"body":"The, the, the reason for the solution,"},{"startTime":183.843,"endTime":186.643,"body":"the reason for the meeting, because"},{"startTime":186.653,"endTime":190.893,"body":"they, they present the six pager at a"},{"startTime":186.653,"endTime":190.893,"body":"meeting where everyone reads it together."},{"startTime":191.453,"endTime":192.303,"body":"Executive summary."},{"startTime":192.343,"endTime":192.933,"body":"Very important."},{"startTime":193.033,"endTime":193.353,"body":"Right."},{"startTime":193.493,"endTime":193.633,"body":"Right."},{"startTime":193.833,"endTime":196.973,"body":"Even not in what we're talking about,"},{"startTime":193.833,"endTime":196.973,"body":"executive summaries are still important."},{"startTime":197.593,"endTime":199.213,"body":"You gotta know your audience"},{"startTime":197.593,"endTime":199.213,"body":"when you're writing."},{"startTime":199.683,"endTime":203.213,"body":"They'll, they'll go into a narrative where"},{"startTime":199.683,"endTime":203.213,"body":"they'll describe the, the background."},{"startTime":203.493,"endTime":206.383,"body":"The demographics or user segmentation."},{"startTime":206.383,"endTime":207.713,"body":"I'll say user segmentation, right?"},{"startTime":207.713,"endTime":208.983,"body":"That they're, that they're servicing here."},{"startTime":209.283,"endTime":211.963,"body":"The business environment."},{"startTime":212.443,"endTime":217.073,"body":"This is a bit of marketing that I go to"},{"startTime":212.443,"endTime":217.073,"body":"when I, when I say like product in the"},{"startTime":217.073,"endTime":220.713,"body":"last episode, we talked about product"},{"startTime":217.073,"endTime":220.713,"body":"marketing and product management."},{"startTime":220.913,"endTime":224.883,"body":"A couple of episodes ago, when we did"},{"startTime":220.913,"endTime":224.883,"body":"the Brian Chesky video breakdown, we"},{"startTime":224.883,"endTime":228.193,"body":"talked about product marketing being"},{"startTime":224.883,"endTime":228.193,"body":"a function of product management."},{"startTime":228.853,"endTime":230.003,"body":"Rather than being separate."},{"startTime":231.593,"endTime":235.433,"body":"This narrative section tells, tells"},{"startTime":231.593,"endTime":235.433,"body":"me, tells me the business owner that"},{"startTime":235.433,"endTime":238.303,"body":"you wanted or whatever the, you know,"},{"startTime":235.433,"endTime":238.303,"body":"whoever runs the business, it tells"},{"startTime":238.303,"endTime":239.653,"body":"me that you understand the market."},{"startTime":240.133,"endTime":241.943,"body":"That's a little bit of"},{"startTime":240.133,"endTime":241.943,"body":"that in the narrative."},{"startTime":241.943,"endTime":244.223,"body":"So you're telling a little story"},{"startTime":241.943,"endTime":244.223,"body":"here that, that's your opportunity"},{"startTime":244.223,"endTime":246.683,"body":"is to tell a little story and inform"},{"startTime":244.223,"endTime":246.683,"body":"the audience about the business."},{"startTime":246.719,"endTime":249.291,"body":"Hopefully with numbers"},{"startTime":246.719,"endTime":249.291,"body":"and, you know, real, yeah."},{"startTime":249.331,"endTime":251.721,"body":"It should be, yeah, it should,"},{"startTime":249.331,"endTime":251.721,"body":"it should be with numbers."},{"startTime":252.181,"endTime":254.651,"body":"And then, we're going to"},{"startTime":252.181,"endTime":254.651,"body":"talk about the problem."},{"startTime":254.681,"endTime":257.941,"body":"Like, this is where we get into,"},{"startTime":254.681,"endTime":257.941,"body":"very basic product management."},{"startTime":257.961,"endTime":259.841,"body":"What is the problem that"},{"startTime":257.961,"endTime":259.841,"body":"you're trying to solve?"},{"startTime":260.161,"endTime":261.051,"body":"What is the problem?"},{"startTime":261.261,"endTime":263.291,"body":"outline the problem, you know, in detail."},{"startTime":263.861,"endTime":264.811,"body":"Show that you understand it."},{"startTime":264.841,"endTime":265.591,"body":"Give me some stats."},{"startTime":265.591,"endTime":269.181,"body":"Give me some actual, research"},{"startTime":265.591,"endTime":269.181,"body":"that you've done on the problem."},{"startTime":269.651,"endTime":272.171,"body":"And then, now that you understand"},{"startTime":269.651,"endTime":272.171,"body":"the problem, and you've given me"},{"startTime":272.171,"endTime":276.291,"body":"some business context about the"},{"startTime":272.171,"endTime":276.291,"body":"business around the problem, now,"},{"startTime":276.301,"endTime":277.871,"body":"let's dig into some solutions."},{"startTime":278.081,"endTime":281.231,"body":"Here's some solutions we could"},{"startTime":278.081,"endTime":281.231,"body":"try, outline different ways"},{"startTime":281.251,"endTime":282.591,"body":"that we could solve the problem."},{"startTime":282.951,"endTime":286.811,"body":"And then at the end, you give"},{"startTime":282.951,"endTime":286.811,"body":"me your recommendation here."},{"startTime":286.821,"endTime":290.001,"body":"Here are the ways that we could solve"},{"startTime":286.821,"endTime":290.001,"body":"the problem, but here's a way that"},{"startTime":290.061,"endTime":291.841,"body":"I think we should solve the problem."},{"startTime":292.101,"endTime":295.701,"body":"Since I am the single threaded business"},{"startTime":292.101,"endTime":295.701,"body":"leader here, basically, here's my plan."},{"startTime":296.101,"endTime":299.71,"body":"And then, when you have that plan"},{"startTime":296.101,"endTime":299.71,"body":"of action, there's some appendices"},{"startTime":299.71,"endTime":302.43,"body":"at the end of the document that"},{"startTime":299.71,"endTime":302.43,"body":"you should have a plan of action."},{"startTime":302.665,"endTime":305.155,"body":"You should have any, any"},{"startTime":302.665,"endTime":305.155,"body":"references that you go to."},{"startTime":305.165,"endTime":306.135,"body":"You should call out here."},{"startTime":306.665,"endTime":308.565,"body":"They ask that you shop"},{"startTime":306.665,"endTime":308.565,"body":"the document around."},{"startTime":308.565,"endTime":311.725,"body":"I mean, you don't have to, but you"},{"startTime":308.565,"endTime":311.725,"body":"probably should shop the document"},{"startTime":311.725,"endTime":314.515,"body":"around to the other department heads"},{"startTime":311.725,"endTime":314.515,"body":"or other people, other stakeholders"},{"startTime":314.525,"endTime":319.375,"body":"that need to be in the meeting and,"},{"startTime":314.525,"endTime":319.375,"body":"figure out what they need, figure out"},{"startTime":319.375,"endTime":321.785,"body":"what questions they're going to ask,"},{"startTime":319.375,"endTime":321.785,"body":"roll it into the frequently asked"},{"startTime":321.785,"endTime":323.015,"body":"questions at the end of the document."},{"startTime":323.025,"endTime":323.835,"body":"That's good to have."},{"startTime":324.105,"endTime":326.385,"body":"References, frequently asked"},{"startTime":324.105,"endTime":326.385,"body":"questions, stuff like that."},{"startTime":326.965,"endTime":331.525,"body":"Basically it's a big document"},{"startTime":326.965,"endTime":331.525,"body":"of why we're doing this."},{"startTime":331.765,"endTime":337.365,"body":"Why we're doing it, and kind of what"},{"startTime":331.765,"endTime":337.365,"body":"we plan to do generally speaking."},{"startTime":337.505,"endTime":342.135,"body":"Right, it's also, for whom,"},{"startTime":337.505,"endTime":342.135,"body":"like who is our target audience?"},{"startTime":342.425,"endTime":346.015,"body":"How big is the market we're"},{"startTime":342.425,"endTime":346.015,"body":"trying to tackle here?"},{"startTime":347.695,"endTime":350.095,"body":"Again, to your point"},{"startTime":347.695,"endTime":350.095,"body":"earlier, numbers, right?"},{"startTime":350.095,"endTime":351.325,"body":"So how big is the market?"},{"startTime":351.865,"endTime":355.355,"body":"that can be, you could use"},{"startTime":351.865,"endTime":355.355,"body":"appropriate numbers there."},{"startTime":355.355,"endTime":357.625,"body":"It could be dollars, it could"},{"startTime":355.355,"endTime":357.625,"body":"be, you know, number of users"},{"startTime":357.635,"endTime":358.415,"body":"or whatever it might be."},{"startTime":358.615,"endTime":358.865,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":358.915,"endTime":363.255,"body":"The nice thing about this document"},{"startTime":358.915,"endTime":363.255,"body":"for me is like clarity and alignment,"},{"startTime":363.635,"endTime":366.995,"body":"like anybody in the organization, if"},{"startTime":363.635,"endTime":366.995,"body":"they're not clear about what your teams"},{"startTime":366.995,"endTime":370.415,"body":"do or what your, you know, what, what"},{"startTime":366.995,"endTime":370.415,"body":"your product is as a product manager,"},{"startTime":370.725,"endTime":373.435,"body":"they can come along and say, let me"},{"startTime":370.725,"endTime":373.435,"body":"see your six page, like they can pull"},{"startTime":373.435,"endTime":375.325,"body":"your card, let me see your six pager."},{"startTime":375.805,"endTime":379.635,"body":"And read and understand what your line"},{"startTime":375.805,"endTime":379.635,"body":"of business is, what your products"},{"startTime":379.635,"endTime":381.055,"body":"are, what business are you in?"},{"startTime":381.375,"endTime":382.885,"body":"What segment of that business?"},{"startTime":382.885,"endTime":386.275,"body":"Maybe if you segmented the market and then"},{"startTime":382.885,"endTime":386.275,"body":"what problems you solving, they can get"},{"startTime":386.275,"endTime":387.525,"body":"all of that from reading this document."},{"startTime":387.905,"endTime":391.075,"body":"And they don't need to interface with"},{"startTime":387.905,"endTime":391.075,"body":"you, bother you, you know what I mean?"},{"startTime":391.085,"endTime":391.925,"body":"Any of that kind of stuff."},{"startTime":392.665,"endTime":393.475,"body":"Theoretically, right?"},{"startTime":393.475,"endTime":394.525,"body":"Theoretically, right?"},{"startTime":394.845,"endTime":396.165,"body":"That, that's pretty cool."},{"startTime":396.265,"endTime":401.005,"body":"Well, yeah, I think someone who doesn't"},{"startTime":396.265,"endTime":401.005,"body":"understand what you're doing, they should"},{"startTime":401.005,"endTime":402.585,"body":"theoretically understand all of that."},{"startTime":403.06,"endTime":403.94,"body":"And guess what?"},{"startTime":403.97,"endTime":407.78,"body":"They've only spent six pages, like"},{"startTime":403.97,"endTime":407.78,"body":"whatever it takes to read six pages."},{"startTime":408.12,"endTime":410.44,"body":"Not, not a whole lot of"},{"startTime":408.12,"endTime":410.44,"body":"time, basically, right?"},{"startTime":411.0,"endTime":412.0,"body":"Um, so that's great."},{"startTime":412.03,"endTime":414.66,"body":"I like the, the, the"},{"startTime":412.03,"endTime":414.66,"body":"point that is made here."},{"startTime":414.66,"endTime":418.19,"body":"The narrative should be from the"},{"startTime":414.66,"endTime":418.19,"body":"perspective of the end user, it"},{"startTime":418.19,"endTime":421.92,"body":"says here, as opposed to, you know,"},{"startTime":418.19,"endTime":421.92,"body":"from an engineering standpoint"},{"startTime":421.92,"endTime":424.43,"body":"or, or just even pure finances."},{"startTime":424.65,"endTime":425.89,"body":"You have some in there."},{"startTime":426.2,"endTime":427.17,"body":"You need, you need that."},{"startTime":427.19,"endTime":429.75,"body":"So you need to understand is it"},{"startTime":427.19,"endTime":429.75,"body":"worth going after the market or not."},{"startTime":430.39,"endTime":431.12,"body":"But that's about it."},{"startTime":432.24,"endTime":436.25,"body":"That's where this, this tower"},{"startTime":432.24,"endTime":436.25,"body":"of cards starts to break down."},{"startTime":436.26,"endTime":439.95,"body":"Like as we start digging into like, yeah,"},{"startTime":436.26,"endTime":439.95,"body":"I should be able to read your six pages"},{"startTime":439.95,"endTime":441.79,"body":"and completely understand your segment."},{"startTime":442.22,"endTime":443.56,"body":"Whoa, whoa, whoa, hold on."},{"startTime":443.63,"endTime":444.97,"body":"You should have some idea."},{"startTime":444.98,"endTime":445.9,"body":"Yeah, right, right."},{"startTime":445.95,"endTime":447.9,"body":"But you may not be able"},{"startTime":445.95,"endTime":447.9,"body":"to understand everything."},{"startTime":447.91,"endTime":448.4,"body":"Yeah, no."},{"startTime":449.345,"endTime":450.105,"body":"Six pages."},{"startTime":450.175,"endTime":450.745,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":451.035,"endTime":454.535,"body":"Like the, the issue here is like"},{"startTime":451.035,"endTime":454.535,"body":"after these six, well, maybe we"},{"startTime":454.535,"endTime":456.735,"body":"should go to different examples"},{"startTime":454.535,"endTime":456.735,"body":"before we start digging into it."},{"startTime":456.745,"endTime":458.185,"body":"Like, let, let's jump"},{"startTime":456.745,"endTime":458.185,"body":"to a different example."},{"startTime":458.185,"endTime":458.435,"body":"Yeah, let's do that."},{"startTime":458.545,"endTime":458.945,"body":"Let's do that."},{"startTime":458.955,"endTime":460.005,"body":"Let's jump to a different example."},{"startTime":460.005,"endTime":469.835,"body":"So, AHA has a section on PRDs on their"},{"startTime":460.005,"endTime":469.835,"body":"website and, for people listening, what"},{"startTime":469.835,"endTime":472.015,"body":"I'm showing is aha on their website."},{"startTime":472.225,"endTime":478.378,"body":"their breakdown PRD is an"},{"startTime":472.225,"endTime":478.378,"body":"overview that basically the"},{"startTime":478.378,"endTime":479.908,"body":"basics of what you're building."},{"startTime":479.958,"endTime":486.028,"body":"And, the objective, which draws back to"},{"startTime":479.958,"endTime":486.028,"body":"the strategy, some context, which is the"},{"startTime":486.038,"endTime":490.228,"body":"personas that we were talking about, the"},{"startTime":486.038,"endTime":490.228,"body":"business cases, use cases, a little bit"},{"startTime":490.228,"endTime":491.898,"body":"about the market that you're operating in."},{"startTime":492.158,"endTime":498.048,"body":"some assumptions, things that you might"},{"startTime":492.158,"endTime":498.048,"body":"look to validate later, the scope,"},{"startTime":498.578,"endTime":502.758,"body":"which I don't know about as a bullet"},{"startTime":498.578,"endTime":502.758,"body":"point item on here, cause the Amazon"},{"startTime":502.758,"endTime":504.268,"body":"one didn't necessarily had scope."},{"startTime":504.808,"endTime":507.038,"body":"It like the Amazon one"},{"startTime":504.808,"endTime":507.038,"body":"didn't necessarily have."},{"startTime":507.643,"endTime":510.583,"body":"Scope it probably had scope in"},{"startTime":507.643,"endTime":510.583,"body":"terms of like these are things"},{"startTime":510.583,"endTime":513.813,"body":"we're going to do These are things"},{"startTime":510.583,"endTime":513.813,"body":"we're not going to do I don't know."},{"startTime":513.813,"endTime":515.243,"body":"Like it wasn't called out so clearly."},{"startTime":515.243,"endTime":517.733,"body":"So I'm not, sometimes people"},{"startTime":515.243,"endTime":517.733,"body":"don't call out what they're not"},{"startTime":517.733,"endTime":520.903,"body":"going to do by implication is"},{"startTime":517.733,"endTime":520.903,"body":"this is all we said we'd do."},{"startTime":520.913,"endTime":521.533,"body":"That's what we're doing."},{"startTime":521.543,"endTime":522.133,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":522.143,"endTime":524.533,"body":"Sometimes people say this is what"},{"startTime":522.143,"endTime":524.533,"body":"we're doing and anything outside"},{"startTime":524.533,"endTime":525.953,"body":"of this document is not in scope."},{"startTime":526.703,"endTime":527.253,"body":"I can see that."},{"startTime":527.293,"endTime":531.063,"body":"And then down here they have requirements,"},{"startTime":527.293,"endTime":531.063,"body":"details of what should be built,"},{"startTime":531.073,"endTime":533.113,"body":"such as user stories or wireframes."},{"startTime":533.113,"endTime":535.533,"body":"I can see some high level mockups"},{"startTime":533.113,"endTime":535.533,"body":"that, that, that makes sense."},{"startTime":536.093,"endTime":537.963,"body":"Performance metrics for success."},{"startTime":538.308,"endTime":539.398,"body":"And then open questions."},{"startTime":539.398,"endTime":541.448,"body":"I said, Q and a was part"},{"startTime":539.398,"endTime":541.448,"body":"of the other document too."},{"startTime":541.448,"endTime":545.608,"body":"So some sections overlap with this one."},{"startTime":545.668,"endTime":546.558,"body":"There's some new ones."},{"startTime":547.038,"endTime":548.468,"body":"Yeah, there's some new ones."},{"startTime":548.718,"endTime":551.238,"body":"There's some ones I don't like"},{"startTime":548.718,"endTime":551.238,"body":"in this one quite to be honest."},{"startTime":553.488,"endTime":558.438,"body":"And, like while we're"},{"startTime":553.488,"endTime":558.438,"body":"pontificating, let's, Ooh, I guess."},{"startTime":558.883,"endTime":559.993,"body":"We do that sometimes."},{"startTime":560.483,"endTime":561.073,"body":"Pontificating."},{"startTime":561.623,"endTime":564.983,"body":"Another site that I think is actually"},{"startTime":561.623,"endTime":564.983,"body":"lends itself to what we're talking about"},{"startTime":565.183,"endTime":567.943,"body":"is a product school, product school."},{"startTime":568.083,"endTime":568.403,"body":"com."},{"startTime":568.533,"endTime":569.813,"body":"I'm going to take you to product school."},{"startTime":570.693,"endTime":572.633,"body":"It's as long as I don't hit detention."},{"startTime":572.633,"endTime":572.973,"body":"I'm good."},{"startTime":573.103,"endTime":573.573,"body":"PRD,"},{"startTime":573.93,"endTime":576.82,"body":"So, in their version of PRD,"},{"startTime":573.93,"endTime":576.82,"body":"they have the same overview,"},{"startTime":577.01,"endTime":578.68,"body":"you know, that, that Amazon had."},{"startTime":579.52,"endTime":581.96,"body":"Success metrics, that's"},{"startTime":579.52,"endTime":581.96,"body":"common to every single one."},{"startTime":582.89,"endTime":586.79,"body":"Product marketing messaging, that,"},{"startTime":582.89,"endTime":586.79,"body":"that's been pretty common as well."},{"startTime":586.8,"endTime":589.49,"body":"Like, what market does it, you"},{"startTime":586.8,"endTime":589.49,"body":"know, lend itself to, and what's"},{"startTime":589.6,"endTime":591.75,"body":"the, what's the message we want"},{"startTime":589.6,"endTime":591.75,"body":"to project into this market."},{"startTime":591.97,"endTime":593.85,"body":"It has personas, just"},{"startTime":591.97,"endTime":593.85,"body":"like everything else."},{"startTime":593.96,"endTime":596.92,"body":"It has a timeline slash release planning,"},{"startTime":593.96,"endTime":596.92,"body":"which, again, that was the one I"},{"startTime":596.92,"endTime":598.89,"body":"was, I was kind of shaky on that one."},{"startTime":598.89,"endTime":600.3,"body":"I was like, Hmm, this is kind of you."},{"startTime":600.43,"endTime":601.68,"body":"Hey, this is useless."},{"startTime":601.9,"endTime":603.81,"body":"So that does not sit well with me."},{"startTime":604.28,"endTime":605.23,"body":"Well, we'll get into it."},{"startTime":605.23,"endTime":605.69,"body":"We'll get into it."},{"startTime":606.31,"endTime":610.24,"body":"I understand that this, the product"},{"startTime":606.31,"endTime":610.24,"body":"school here says user scenarios, but."},{"startTime":610.485,"endTime":612.315,"body":"But what they're, I think what"},{"startTime":610.485,"endTime":612.315,"body":"they're trying to say is what,"},{"startTime":612.315,"endTime":615.765,"body":"what, what, what experiments or"},{"startTime":612.315,"endTime":615.765,"body":"goals are we shooting for in here?"},{"startTime":616.145,"endTime":619.655,"body":"But also that then they go off and they"},{"startTime":616.145,"endTime":619.655,"body":"say user stories, features, requirements."},{"startTime":619.665,"endTime":624.185,"body":"So then maybe I don't know if I was trying"},{"startTime":619.665,"endTime":624.185,"body":"to paint them in a good light and then"},{"startTime":624.185,"endTime":626.135,"body":"they went and broke the law or whatever."},{"startTime":626.775,"endTime":628.415,"body":"And then some designs."},{"startTime":629.0,"endTime":633.41,"body":"Early sketches, wireframes, that"},{"startTime":629.0,"endTime":633.41,"body":"kind of stuff, a Q and a section,"},{"startTime":633.6,"endTime":637.72,"body":"just like the six pager trying"},{"startTime":633.6,"endTime":637.72,"body":"to answer common questions."},{"startTime":637.73,"endTime":640.95,"body":"So, so it makes me think that they've"},{"startTime":637.73,"endTime":640.95,"body":"kind of shopped this around before."},{"startTime":641.05,"endTime":645.18,"body":"Basically everybody had the same"},{"startTime":641.05,"endTime":645.18,"body":"basic shell a few people had some"},{"startTime":645.18,"endTime":648.28,"body":"extra stuff that I don't really think"},{"startTime":645.18,"endTime":648.28,"body":"is super necessary like you don't"},{"startTime":648.29,"endTime":654.79,"body":"need timelines when you're launching"},{"startTime":648.29,"endTime":654.79,"body":"a business strategy What I do have"},{"startTime":654.79,"endTime":658.835,"body":"to say most of the ones I've seen"},{"startTime":654.79,"endTime":658.835,"body":"have had a Change history in there."},{"startTime":659.015,"endTime":659.235,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":659.355,"endTime":661.455,"body":"Versioned change history, right?"},{"startTime":663.005,"endTime":663.685,"body":"I'm okay with that."},{"startTime":663.685,"endTime":666.065,"body":"I mean, you can do that in"},{"startTime":663.685,"endTime":666.065,"body":"wikis and stuff like that."},{"startTime":666.095,"endTime":666.805,"body":"Let you roll back."},{"startTime":667.295,"endTime":667.545,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":667.545,"endTime":668.915,"body":"A lot of times they come built in."},{"startTime":670.125,"endTime":673.835,"body":"But, like the, the, the, the first"},{"startTime":670.125,"endTime":673.835,"body":"thing to point out, we started"},{"startTime":673.875,"endTime":677.755,"body":"touching on this, like all these, all"},{"startTime":673.875,"endTime":677.755,"body":"these documents are trying to do is"},{"startTime":677.755,"endTime":680.605,"body":"they're trying to promote clarity and"},{"startTime":677.755,"endTime":680.605,"body":"alignment throughout the business."},{"startTime":680.605,"endTime":683.225,"body":"It basically clarity and alignment"},{"startTime":680.605,"endTime":683.225,"body":"in the form of, you don't"},{"startTime":683.225,"endTime":684.575,"body":"really need to talk to anyone."},{"startTime":684.995,"endTime":687.815,"body":"To understand what this sec,"},{"startTime":684.995,"endTime":687.815,"body":"this segment of the business."},{"startTime":688.29,"endTime":689.78,"body":"What their purpose is right?"},{"startTime":689.82,"endTime":695.55,"body":"So I'm a new CFO I come on and I want to"},{"startTime":689.82,"endTime":695.55,"body":"check every line item on my budget and"},{"startTime":695.55,"endTime":699.8,"body":"make sure everyone's Punching out widgets,"},{"startTime":695.55,"endTime":699.8,"body":"and I'm getting paid appropriately."},{"startTime":700.12,"endTime":704.46,"body":"I don't understand what this Brian"},{"startTime":700.12,"endTime":704.46,"body":"\u0026 Om's development team is doing over"},{"startTime":704.46,"endTime":708.355,"body":"here I need to read their six pager"},{"startTime":704.46,"endTime":708.355,"body":"and understand what they're doing."},{"startTime":708.355,"endTime":710.345,"body":"Okay, now I understand"},{"startTime":708.355,"endTime":710.345,"body":"what they're involved in."},{"startTime":710.815,"endTime":712.165,"body":"And why they're doing what they're doing."},{"startTime":712.165,"endTime":712.745,"body":"Yeah, yeah, yeah."},{"startTime":713.065,"endTime":716.025,"body":"So from that perspective,"},{"startTime":713.065,"endTime":716.025,"body":"this document's great."},{"startTime":716.685,"endTime":721.085,"body":"My immediate pushback to this one is, do"},{"startTime":716.685,"endTime":721.085,"body":"you need to know what all the teams that"},{"startTime":721.085,"endTime":722.614,"body":"you don't understand are involved in?"},{"startTime":723.655,"endTime":726.675,"body":"I mean, a lot of times people have FOMO,"},{"startTime":723.655,"endTime":726.675,"body":"that's why they need to know, right?"},{"startTime":727.135,"endTime":728.705,"body":"I need to know because I'm a CFO."},{"startTime":731.035,"endTime":734.765,"body":"Ideally, ideally, somebody new"},{"startTime":731.035,"endTime":734.765,"body":"coming in and looking at stuff"},{"startTime":734.765,"endTime":740.345,"body":"that's in, you know, in history or in"},{"startTime":734.765,"endTime":740.345,"body":"flight, let's say, that's one thing."},{"startTime":740.355,"endTime":744.625,"body":"But ideally, you should be attending"},{"startTime":740.355,"endTime":744.625,"body":"the readouts of these things, right?"},{"startTime":744.825,"endTime":745.375,"body":"Ideally."},{"startTime":745.635,"endTime":746.315,"body":"So then you know."},{"startTime":747.015,"endTime":749.075,"body":"And then you have the"},{"startTime":747.015,"endTime":749.075,"body":"opportunity to voice."},{"startTime":749.755,"endTime":753.065,"body":"Your opinions, concerns,"},{"startTime":749.755,"endTime":753.065,"body":"whatever, right, at that point."},{"startTime":753.065,"endTime":754.525,"body":"So you have the right audience in place."},{"startTime":755.249,"endTime":761.439,"body":"What will be promoted as a pro"},{"startTime":755.249,"endTime":761.439,"body":"for maintaining a PRD would be"},{"startTime":761.439,"endTime":763.409,"body":"that there is documentation."},{"startTime":763.939,"endTime":765.679,"body":"There is a paper trail"},{"startTime":763.939,"endTime":765.679,"body":"for what you're doing."},{"startTime":766.079,"endTime":769.739,"body":"There is something written down, there's"},{"startTime":766.079,"endTime":769.739,"body":"an archive of what you're doing over time."},{"startTime":770.429,"endTime":775.519,"body":"Whereas like Agilis often get accused"},{"startTime":770.429,"endTime":775.519,"body":"of not writing any documentation and"},{"startTime":775.529,"endTime":777.959,"body":"having no to being anti documentation."},{"startTime":778.399,"endTime":780.759,"body":"Which like, for the purpose of"},{"startTime":778.399,"endTime":780.759,"body":"not, like that could be a whole"},{"startTime":780.759,"endTime":781.849,"body":"different podcast by itself."},{"startTime":781.849,"endTime":788.149,"body":"But for the purpose of this,"},{"startTime":781.849,"endTime":788.149,"body":"something is required to engage"},{"startTime":788.179,"endTime":789.689,"body":"in a new business activity."},{"startTime":790.299,"endTime":791.439,"body":"You know, something."},{"startTime":791.949,"endTime":795.649,"body":"Yeah, and this is something"},{"startTime":791.949,"endTime":795.649,"body":"that, you know, if um, if people"},{"startTime":795.649,"endTime":797.359,"body":"are keeping the document going."},{"startTime":797.719,"endTime":798.899,"body":"Through its life cycle."},{"startTime":799.209,"endTime":803.089,"body":"It's great because you not now know"},{"startTime":799.209,"endTime":803.089,"body":"the way the pivots were Hopefully"},{"startTime":803.119,"endTime":804.889,"body":"it also contains the reasons why."},{"startTime":805.219,"endTime":806.109,"body":"So you're doing that."},{"startTime":806.149,"endTime":809.499,"body":"I think people need to stop"},{"startTime":806.149,"endTime":809.499,"body":"thinking about the documentation"},{"startTime":809.539,"endTime":812.959,"body":"aspect merely as just CYA."},{"startTime":812.989,"endTime":816.139,"body":"It's, that's not, they're missing"},{"startTime":812.989,"endTime":816.139,"body":"the point, if that's the case, right?"},{"startTime":816.219,"endTime":820.859,"body":"It's to have a record within the"},{"startTime":816.219,"endTime":820.859,"body":"company of what was being done, for"},{"startTime":820.859,"endTime":823.189,"body":"what purpose, to what end, right?"},{"startTime":823.559,"endTime":825.329,"body":"And then how it evolved as well."},{"startTime":825.873,"endTime":828.373,"body":"where we're going now is, you know,"},{"startTime":825.873,"endTime":828.373,"body":"well, well, there's got to be some"},{"startTime":828.373,"endTime":831.803,"body":"documentation of what we were working on"},{"startTime":828.373,"endTime":831.803,"body":"over time and when and stuff like that."},{"startTime":832.103,"endTime":837.803,"body":"I have a a Miro template I created"},{"startTime":832.103,"endTime":837.803,"body":"myself for walking, business."},{"startTime":838.813,"endTime":844.016,"body":"And other product managers through"},{"startTime":838.813,"endTime":844.016,"body":"the thought process of creating new,"},{"startTime":844.026,"endTime":846.906,"body":"new products and new features of new"},{"startTime":844.026,"endTime":846.906,"body":"products to try to, to try to answer"},{"startTime":846.906,"endTime":847.916,"body":"the common questions, stuff like that."},{"startTime":848.086,"endTime":850.766,"body":"Basically that reverse"},{"startTime":848.086,"endTime":850.766,"body":"engineering this whole document."},{"startTime":851.186,"endTime":854.586,"body":"And I created this, I don't know how"},{"startTime":851.186,"endTime":854.586,"body":"I'm going to, I don't know how I'm going"},{"startTime":854.586,"endTime":856.306,"body":"to get this out on the audio version."},{"startTime":856.796,"endTime":857.306,"body":"Like YouTube."},{"startTime":857.346,"endTime":859.306,"body":"I think you're going to"},{"startTime":857.346,"endTime":859.306,"body":"have to narrate the points."},{"startTime":859.746,"endTime":863.456,"body":"Yeah, but what I can do is if you're"},{"startTime":859.746,"endTime":863.456,"body":"listening in audio, I'll add the link"},{"startTime":863.526,"endTime":866.876,"body":"to the image I'm about to show on the"},{"startTime":863.526,"endTime":866.876,"body":"screen so you can click it and see it"},{"startTime":866.916,"endTime":869.896,"body":"as you're listening to the podcast,"},{"startTime":866.916,"endTime":869.896,"body":"because one of the big reasons I wanted"},{"startTime":869.896,"endTime":874.946,"body":"to have this podcast is I'm not sold"},{"startTime":869.896,"endTime":874.946,"body":"that you need to create PRDs in agile."},{"startTime":875.466,"endTime":876.106,"body":"Product development."},{"startTime":876.566,"endTime":877.386,"body":"I'm not sold."},{"startTime":877.906,"endTime":880.396,"body":"I can see pros and cons and"},{"startTime":877.906,"endTime":880.396,"body":"I'm kind of, I'm kind of 50"},{"startTime":880.396,"endTime":881.616,"body":"50 I'm kind of on the fence."},{"startTime":881.846,"endTime":886.546,"body":"Like if, if, if my company were to come"},{"startTime":881.846,"endTime":886.546,"body":"to me and say, oh no Brian We decided"},{"startTime":886.546,"endTime":888.006,"body":"we're gonna do PRDs for everything now."},{"startTime":888.466,"endTime":895.386,"body":"Every program, project, product, whatever,"},{"startTime":888.466,"endTime":895.386,"body":"all the P words Are gonna have PRDs now."},{"startTime":896.246,"endTime":900.636,"body":"I think I'd be on the fence about"},{"startTime":896.246,"endTime":900.636,"body":"whether I should Fight it or whether"},{"startTime":900.636,"endTime":902.286,"body":"I should just do it and get over it."},{"startTime":902.956,"endTime":903.286,"body":"You know what I mean?"},{"startTime":903.286,"endTime":905.106,"body":"Cause I see pros and cons here."},{"startTime":905.546,"endTime":906.626,"body":"The immediate con here is like."},{"startTime":907.051,"endTime":910.781,"body":"Why am I going through all this time and"},{"startTime":907.051,"endTime":910.781,"body":"effort to write a document that lives out"},{"startTime":910.781,"endTime":913.931,"body":"there when this stuff that I'm outlining"},{"startTime":910.781,"endTime":913.931,"body":"like here's a problem we're trying to"},{"startTime":913.931,"endTime":918.901,"body":"solve and here's a possible solutions that"},{"startTime":913.931,"endTime":918.901,"body":"we can do like I can get into solving the"},{"startTime":918.901,"endTime":924.191,"body":"very first solution and the very first"},{"startTime":918.901,"endTime":924.191,"body":"thing that we do to solve the business"},{"startTime":924.191,"endTime":928.276,"body":"problem that we're trying to solve here"},{"startTime":924.191,"endTime":928.276,"body":"is Wildly successfully solve the problem."},{"startTime":928.706,"endTime":930.646,"body":"Or completely the opposite."},{"startTime":931.156,"endTime":933.256,"body":"We get in and the customer's"},{"startTime":931.156,"endTime":933.256,"body":"like, Actually, this is not"},{"startTime":933.256,"endTime":934.046,"body":"the problem I need solved."},{"startTime":935.056,"endTime":937.756,"body":"Or, or actually I'm not, I"},{"startTime":935.056,"endTime":937.756,"body":"don't want to buy the solution."},{"startTime":937.756,"endTime":939.056,"body":"I went with a different"},{"startTime":937.756,"endTime":939.056,"body":"vendor or whatever."},{"startTime":939.406,"endTime":942.326,"body":"Like now what I went through all,"},{"startTime":939.406,"endTime":942.326,"body":"like I got my tech lead involved."},{"startTime":942.476,"endTime":943.496,"body":"I got my team involved."},{"startTime":943.516,"endTime":944.806,"body":"Maybe I got more than one team involved."},{"startTime":944.976,"endTime":949.266,"body":"I got all the people from the executive"},{"startTime":944.976,"endTime":949.266,"body":"team or leadership I got all of them"},{"startTime":949.266,"endTime":950.596,"body":"involved, wasted all their time."},{"startTime":951.146,"endTime":952.856,"body":"And now the customer"},{"startTime":951.146,"endTime":952.856,"body":"is like, nah, actually."},{"startTime":953.596,"endTime":953.996,"body":"Nah."},{"startTime":954.096,"endTime":955.656,"body":"Thanks, but no thanks."},{"startTime":956.066,"endTime":957.376,"body":"So I think there's degrees, right?"},{"startTime":957.376,"endTime":960.716,"body":"So, I mean, initially, for a"},{"startTime":957.376,"endTime":960.716,"body":"draft review, you wouldn't need"},{"startTime":960.716,"endTime":962.236,"body":"to spend hours and hours on it."},{"startTime":962.716,"endTime":964.636,"body":"It is not the final polished thing."},{"startTime":965.216,"endTime":968.646,"body":"But I'm also not suggesting you"},{"startTime":965.216,"endTime":968.646,"body":"spend hours thereafter, even, to"},{"startTime":968.646,"endTime":970.216,"body":"polish the thing ad infinitum."},{"startTime":970.856,"endTime":972.296,"body":"Just enough, right?"},{"startTime":972.306,"endTime":973.516,"body":"Just enough is what we need."},{"startTime":973.526,"endTime":977.266,"body":"So six pages, okay, you're gonna spend as"},{"startTime":973.526,"endTime":977.266,"body":"much time as it takes to create six pages."},{"startTime":977.876,"endTime":980.936,"body":"They don't even have to be full six"},{"startTime":977.876,"endTime":980.936,"body":"pages, they can be bullet lists."},{"startTime":980.936,"endTime":981.156,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":981.461,"endTime":984.421,"body":"They can even create a Miro"},{"startTime":981.461,"endTime":984.421,"body":"board like you've done, right?"},{"startTime":984.451,"endTime":985.751,"body":"And just talk through that."},{"startTime":985.761,"endTime":989.901,"body":"It's sticky, it's dragging them here and"},{"startTime":985.761,"endTime":989.901,"body":"there and having people have a discussion"},{"startTime":989.901,"endTime":991.481,"body":"around it, which is where the value is."},{"startTime":991.491,"endTime":995.521,"body":"Well, that's, that's what I'm worried"},{"startTime":991.491,"endTime":995.521,"body":"about, about a document like this."},{"startTime":995.571,"endTime":1000.421,"body":"It's not the summary six pager"},{"startTime":995.571,"endTime":1000.421,"body":"that kicked off our product."},{"startTime":1000.941,"endTime":1004.611,"body":"It's referred to back as like, hey, I'm"},{"startTime":1000.941,"endTime":1004.611,"body":"not going to go look at the backlog."},{"startTime":1004.654,"endTime":1010.204,"body":"I'm going to go look at your living"},{"startTime":1004.654,"endTime":1010.204,"body":"document, and I expect that every time"},{"startTime":1010.204,"endTime":1014.114,"body":"you update a feature, every time you"},{"startTime":1010.204,"endTime":1014.114,"body":"put out a story, every time you finish a"},{"startTime":1014.114,"endTime":1018.834,"body":"development task, it goes and gets added,"},{"startTime":1014.114,"endTime":1018.834,"body":"the date that you finish, like that."},{"startTime":1018.922,"endTime":1024.377,"body":"I'm looking at , a genuinely helpful"},{"startTime":1018.922,"endTime":1024.377,"body":"practice like this and thinking"},{"startTime":1024.377,"endTime":1029.147,"body":"like how will companies take this"},{"startTime":1024.377,"endTime":1029.147,"body":"and make it the worst version"},{"startTime":1029.447,"endTime":1030.947,"body":"of what this is supposed to be?"},{"startTime":1030.947,"endTime":1036.907,"body":"It's supposed to be a high level get"},{"startTime":1030.947,"endTime":1036.907,"body":"funding kick off the initiative Declare"},{"startTime":1036.907,"endTime":1041.637,"body":"the person that's gonna be leading it and"},{"startTime":1036.907,"endTime":1041.637,"body":"go and now it's tracked via all of our"},{"startTime":1041.637,"endTime":1046.137,"body":"other methods But this original document"},{"startTime":1041.637,"endTime":1046.137,"body":"that kicked it off is still there."},{"startTime":1046.287,"endTime":1048.527,"body":"It's still kind of being adjusted"},{"startTime":1046.287,"endTime":1048.527,"body":"as we learn things in the"},{"startTime":1048.527,"endTime":1050.107,"body":"market, it's being tacked onto."},{"startTime":1050.15,"endTime":1053.96,"body":"The keeping it up to date and like"},{"startTime":1050.15,"endTime":1053.96,"body":"having to put all your stories in Jira"},{"startTime":1053.96,"endTime":1057.47,"body":"or Azure DevOps or whatever, and then"},{"startTime":1053.96,"endTime":1057.47,"body":"also having to update this and then"},{"startTime":1057.47,"endTime":1062.97,"body":"giving progress updates like that,"},{"startTime":1057.47,"endTime":1062.97,"body":"that, that's where I see PRDs going."},{"startTime":1062.975,"endTime":1066.06,"body":"That's the evolution that I see from"},{"startTime":1062.975,"endTime":1066.06,"body":"this, and it's super scary to me."},{"startTime":1066.36,"endTime":1069.48,"body":"That is, that's just the"},{"startTime":1066.36,"endTime":1069.48,"body":"extreme extremes, right?"},{"startTime":1069.48,"endTime":1069.481,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":1069.486,"endTime":1073.125,"body":"So, I, you know, when I say there's"},{"startTime":1069.486,"endTime":1073.125,"body":"this degrees, what I mean is"},{"startTime":1073.695,"endTime":1077.555,"body":"keeping this updated would be in"},{"startTime":1073.695,"endTime":1077.555,"body":"simple business language, right?"},{"startTime":1077.925,"endTime":1081.575,"body":"And no more than a paragraph or"},{"startTime":1077.925,"endTime":1081.575,"body":"two for these pivots that you have."},{"startTime":1081.775,"endTime":1085.825,"body":"We're not saying here are the 130"},{"startTime":1081.775,"endTime":1085.825,"body":"stories that, you know, we embed in here."},{"startTime":1086.085,"endTime":1087.775,"body":"Extract them out of your LM tool."},{"startTime":1087.935,"endTime":1091.445,"body":"That's, that's asinine because"},{"startTime":1087.935,"endTime":1091.445,"body":"nobody's going to read those."},{"startTime":1091.745,"endTime":1096.405,"body":"You've now gone from six pages to"},{"startTime":1091.745,"endTime":1096.405,"body":"60 pages and completely, you know,"},{"startTime":1096.425,"endTime":1097.995,"body":"missed the point of this, right?"},{"startTime":1098.345,"endTime":1102.245,"body":"So a good product manager, whoever's"},{"startTime":1098.345,"endTime":1102.245,"body":"keeping this updated, it doesn't"},{"startTime":1102.245,"endTime":1103.475,"body":"even have to be the product manager."},{"startTime":1103.785,"endTime":1107.705,"body":"They need to recognize that this"},{"startTime":1103.785,"endTime":1107.705,"body":"is, like you said, super high level."},{"startTime":1108.165,"endTime":1109.765,"body":"It has to be relevant."},{"startTime":1109.95,"endTime":1110.22,"body":"Right?"},{"startTime":1110.61,"endTime":1115.59,"body":"And have just enough detail to say this"},{"startTime":1110.61,"endTime":1115.59,"body":"is what's going on and having that change"},{"startTime":1115.59,"endTime":1119.42,"body":"history will help because you'll be able"},{"startTime":1115.59,"endTime":1119.42,"body":"to tie back to the timing of those pivots."},{"startTime":1120.49,"endTime":1125.24,"body":"But then this should not serve as"},{"startTime":1120.49,"endTime":1125.24,"body":"a dictionary of what's going on."},{"startTime":1125.27,"endTime":1131.69,"body":"This should serve as simply a"},{"startTime":1125.27,"endTime":1131.69,"body":"list of things that, could input"},{"startTime":1131.72,"endTime":1134.27,"body":"into a, a meeting, let's say."},{"startTime":1134.62,"endTime":1135.92,"body":"So if somebody is really interested."},{"startTime":1136.335,"endTime":1141.215,"body":"In a specific aspect, solutioning"},{"startTime":1136.335,"endTime":1141.215,"body":"or the strategic piece of it."},{"startTime":1141.215,"endTime":1141.595,"body":"Right, right."},{"startTime":1141.665,"endTime":1144.845,"body":"Or more importantly the marketing aspect"},{"startTime":1141.665,"endTime":1144.845,"body":"of it than Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah."},{"startTime":1144.845,"endTime":1146.555,"body":"So you can have a"},{"startTime":1144.845,"endTime":1146.555,"body":"discussion with them, right."},{"startTime":1146.555,"endTime":1149.135,"body":"And you can say, well, initially"},{"startTime":1146.555,"endTime":1149.135,"body":"we thought the market was this big."},{"startTime":1149.135,"endTime":1150.245,"body":"Yeah, we did this experiment."},{"startTime":1150.25,"endTime":1153.165,"body":"Found out it was only this big,"},{"startTime":1150.25,"endTime":1153.165,"body":"or it was bigger, whatever it is."},{"startTime":1153.565,"endTime":1154.515,"body":"Well, that's it."},{"startTime":1154.615,"endTime":1156.195,"body":"Where this document can be helpful."},{"startTime":1156.575,"endTime":1162.315,"body":"is in involving the appropriate"},{"startTime":1156.575,"endTime":1162.315,"body":"stakeholders at the appropriate time, a."},{"startTime":1162.315,"endTime":1162.335,"body":"k."},{"startTime":1162.335,"endTime":1162.755,"body":"a."},{"startTime":1162.805,"endTime":1164.055,"body":"stakeholder collaboration."},{"startTime":1164.495,"endTime":1167.555,"body":"That that's what this ties back"},{"startTime":1164.495,"endTime":1167.555,"body":"to is like, I'm bringing in sales."},{"startTime":1167.805,"endTime":1168.805,"body":"I'm bringing in marketing."},{"startTime":1169.015,"endTime":1172.835,"body":"I'm getting their input and and they're"},{"startTime":1169.015,"endTime":1172.835,"body":"and they're giving me questions back."},{"startTime":1172.835,"endTime":1173.225,"body":"Hey."},{"startTime":1173.765,"endTime":1175.205,"body":"I don't think this market is this size."},{"startTime":1175.365,"endTime":1176.305,"body":"You need to run some tests."},{"startTime":1176.445,"endTime":1177.545,"body":"You need to go gather some data."},{"startTime":1177.655,"endTime":1179.495,"body":"You need to go pull some"},{"startTime":1177.655,"endTime":1179.495,"body":"surveys or something."},{"startTime":1179.535,"endTime":1179.905,"body":"You know what I mean?"},{"startTime":1179.905,"endTime":1180.185,"body":"Whatever."},{"startTime":1180.185,"endTime":1180.665,"body":"Something like that."},{"startTime":1180.925,"endTime":1181.445,"body":"Okay."},{"startTime":1181.495,"endTime":1186.305,"body":"I, because I know when I invite them"},{"startTime":1181.495,"endTime":1186.305,"body":"back to the big kickoff session where"},{"startTime":1186.305,"endTime":1189.254,"body":"I'm asking for funding or whatever I'm"},{"startTime":1186.305,"endTime":1189.254,"body":"asking for they're going to want to"},{"startTime":1189.254,"endTime":1193.444,"body":"know that their questions have been"},{"startTime":1189.254,"endTime":1193.444,"body":"answered and it's my responsibility"},{"startTime":1193.444,"endTime":1196.564,"body":"as a product manager to engage"},{"startTime":1193.444,"endTime":1196.564,"body":"them before we get to the point."},{"startTime":1196.924,"endTime":1198.104,"body":"Where they're asking those questions."},{"startTime":1198.524,"endTime":1201.634,"body":"So if I haven't synced back with"},{"startTime":1198.524,"endTime":1201.634,"body":"them, it says, Hey, I've answered your"},{"startTime":1201.634,"endTime":1204.904,"body":"questions and these are the answers"},{"startTime":1201.634,"endTime":1204.904,"body":"I'm going to roll it into the document."},{"startTime":1204.904,"endTime":1207.489,"body":"So anyone else can see"},{"startTime":1204.904,"endTime":1207.489,"body":"what we talked about."},{"startTime":1207.529,"endTime":1208.079,"body":"Okay, cool."},{"startTime":1208.779,"endTime":1211.339,"body":"And then i'm gonna sync back with"},{"startTime":1208.779,"endTime":1211.339,"body":"you to make sure you don't have any"},{"startTime":1211.349,"endTime":1214.769,"body":"further questions That I need to"},{"startTime":1211.349,"endTime":1214.769,"body":"track down tracking down all those"},{"startTime":1214.779,"endTime":1219.279,"body":"questions This is like the the four"},{"startTime":1214.779,"endTime":1219.279,"body":"the four risks the marty Cagan four"},{"startTime":1219.299,"endTime":1222.474,"body":"risks, you know usability, viability."},{"startTime":1222.474,"endTime":1222.924,"body":"Feasibility."},{"startTime":1222.924,"endTime":1223.704,"body":"Feasibility."},{"startTime":1223.754,"endTime":1229.874,"body":"the usability, feasibility,"},{"startTime":1223.754,"endTime":1229.874,"body":"business viability and value."},{"startTime":1231.044,"endTime":1235.424,"body":"What you're describing though is,"},{"startTime":1231.044,"endTime":1235.424,"body":"is the intent behind this artifact."},{"startTime":1235.784,"endTime":1239.024,"body":"In, in practice, we don't"},{"startTime":1235.784,"endTime":1239.024,"body":"necessarily see that in, you know,"},{"startTime":1239.024,"endTime":1241.754,"body":"in practice I see project managers."},{"startTime":1242.059,"endTime":1246.469,"body":"Delegating a whole bunch of detail to"},{"startTime":1242.059,"endTime":1246.469,"body":"BAs to fill in and this document bloats"},{"startTime":1246.469,"endTime":1248.779,"body":"to 100 plus pages is what I've seen."},{"startTime":1249.869,"endTime":1251.759,"body":"Yeah, that's exactly"},{"startTime":1249.869,"endTime":1251.759,"body":"what I'm trying to avoid."},{"startTime":1252.539,"endTime":1257.469,"body":"A document like this is, I'd say,"},{"startTime":1252.539,"endTime":1257.469,"body":"absolutely needed before you get"},{"startTime":1258.149,"endTime":1262.119,"body":"funding because your finance is"},{"startTime":1258.149,"endTime":1262.119,"body":"going to look at this information."},{"startTime":1262.689,"endTime":1266.549,"body":"They're going to run some ratios"},{"startTime":1262.689,"endTime":1266.549,"body":"and calculations, et cetera, right?"},{"startTime":1266.549,"endTime":1269.409,"body":"Uh, NPV, those kinds of calculations."},{"startTime":1270.214,"endTime":1271.694,"body":"When are we going to start making money?"},{"startTime":1272.004,"endTime":1275.024,"body":"You know, sure, it's laden with a"},{"startTime":1272.004,"endTime":1275.024,"body":"bunch of assumptions, but they're"},{"startTime":1275.024,"endTime":1278.664,"body":"going to need all of that before they"},{"startTime":1275.024,"endTime":1278.664,"body":"say, yeah, sure, go spend, you know,"},{"startTime":1278.694,"endTime":1283.274,"body":"10 million developing this thing"},{"startTime":1278.694,"endTime":1283.274,"body":"that we're hoping will turn a profit."},{"startTime":1284.074,"endTime":1287.444,"body":"They won't necessarily just grant"},{"startTime":1284.074,"endTime":1287.444,"body":"you the money on hope and prayer."},{"startTime":1287.454,"endTime":1289.034,"body":"They're going to want"},{"startTime":1287.454,"endTime":1289.034,"body":"to know these numbers."},{"startTime":1289.384,"endTime":1290.664,"body":"And if you don't know the numbers..."},{"startTime":1291.259,"endTime":1292.419,"body":"Then what chance do you have?"},{"startTime":1292.439,"endTime":1295.009,"body":"Well, I'm glad, I'm glad"},{"startTime":1292.439,"endTime":1295.009,"body":"you took us down this road."},{"startTime":1295.359,"endTime":1301.149,"body":"Because, I don't, I don't necessarily"},{"startTime":1295.359,"endTime":1301.149,"body":"agree that all of this has to be done."},{"startTime":1301.809,"endTime":1304.949,"body":"Because the, the, the template that I"},{"startTime":1301.809,"endTime":1304.949,"body":"was referring to earlier that I'll, I'll"},{"startTime":1304.949,"endTime":1308.449,"body":"pull up now and again, for anyone that's"},{"startTime":1304.949,"endTime":1308.449,"body":"listening, you're not going to be able"},{"startTime":1308.449,"endTime":1309.959,"body":"to see what I'm sharing on the screen."},{"startTime":1310.299,"endTime":1312.629,"body":"Uh, but I will put the"},{"startTime":1310.299,"endTime":1312.629,"body":"link to this, image."},{"startTime":1312.659,"endTime":1314.119,"body":"It's a, it's a, it's a JPA."},{"startTime":1314.119,"endTime":1320.549,"body":"It's a screen cap of a mirror board that I"},{"startTime":1314.119,"endTime":1320.549,"body":"have created to help the product managers"},{"startTime":1320.579,"endTime":1323.029,"body":"and the company leadership figure out."},{"startTime":1323.314,"endTime":1329.157,"body":"What they want to accomplish in terms"},{"startTime":1323.314,"endTime":1329.157,"body":"of, product vision and strategies and"},{"startTime":1329.207,"endTime":1331.057,"body":"dealing with business problems and goals."},{"startTime":1331.145,"endTime":1332.575,"body":"It has several swim lanes."},{"startTime":1333.615,"endTime":1337.005,"body":"And at the top you have the"},{"startTime":1333.615,"endTime":1337.005,"body":"company's mission and vision."},{"startTime":1337.125,"endTime":1340.952,"body":"And you have the product vision; below"},{"startTime":1337.125,"endTime":1340.952,"body":"product vision, we have strategies."},{"startTime":1340.982,"endTime":1343.692,"body":"Now, Om and I were talking about"},{"startTime":1340.982,"endTime":1343.692,"body":"this before we started the podcast."},{"startTime":1343.962,"endTime":1347.942,"body":"Strategies, arguably, can flip flop in"},{"startTime":1343.962,"endTime":1347.942,"body":"the lane where product vision lives."},{"startTime":1348.142,"endTime":1349.934,"body":"So, strategies could live in that, lane."},{"startTime":1350.066,"endTime":1352.826,"body":"Or they could be mixed"},{"startTime":1350.066,"endTime":1352.826,"body":"in one lane, potentially."},{"startTime":1352.876,"endTime":1357.316,"body":"The upper lanes are the why are we"},{"startTime":1352.876,"endTime":1357.316,"body":"doing this and the middle lanes are the"},{"startTime":1357.316,"endTime":1360.766,"body":"what problems are we trying to solve"},{"startTime":1357.316,"endTime":1360.766,"body":"and the lower lanes are the goals."},{"startTime":1361.056,"endTime":1367.586,"body":"That we're going to one after another,"},{"startTime":1361.056,"endTime":1367.586,"body":"so, the idea, the idea here, with relation"},{"startTime":1367.586,"endTime":1370.466,"body":"to the six page, where you're like,"},{"startTime":1367.586,"endTime":1370.466,"body":"well, you need to kind of give everyone"},{"startTime":1370.466,"endTime":1374.026,"body":"an idea of what you're going to be,"},{"startTime":1370.466,"endTime":1374.026,"body":"involved in before you do it, because"},{"startTime":1374.026,"endTime":1375.146,"body":"otherwise you're not going to get funding."},{"startTime":1375.286,"endTime":1378.986,"body":"I kind of agree with that because"},{"startTime":1375.286,"endTime":1378.986,"body":"most companies are, have traditional"},{"startTime":1378.996,"endTime":1383.921,"body":"financial models where you do have to"},{"startTime":1378.996,"endTime":1383.921,"body":"prove a bunch of stuff before you do it."},{"startTime":1384.171,"endTime":1387.641,"body":"But, the most agile companies"},{"startTime":1384.171,"endTime":1387.641,"body":"will, start with a strategy."},{"startTime":1387.641,"endTime":1389.231,"body":"They'll start with that third"},{"startTime":1387.641,"endTime":1389.231,"body":"lane that I have on here."},{"startTime":1389.281,"endTime":1390.361,"body":"They'll start with a vision."},{"startTime":1390.601,"endTime":1392.531,"body":"From the vision, they'll say,"},{"startTime":1390.601,"endTime":1392.531,"body":"Okay, this is our vision."},{"startTime":1392.531,"endTime":1393.181,"body":"We want to be..."},{"startTime":1393.921,"endTime":1397.221,"body":"Like the Tesla vision like we want"},{"startTime":1393.921,"endTime":1397.221,"body":"to enable the whole the entire world"},{"startTime":1397.261,"endTime":1399.001,"body":"run on renewable energy, right?"},{"startTime":1399.261,"endTime":1400.411,"body":"And they'll say well,"},{"startTime":1399.261,"endTime":1400.411,"body":"how are we gonna do that?"},{"startTime":1400.411,"endTime":1405.711,"body":"Well, we're gonna create a really"},{"startTime":1400.411,"endTime":1405.711,"body":"expensive really fast Roadster and"},{"startTime":1405.711,"endTime":1410.041,"body":"make a ton of money off this really"},{"startTime":1405.711,"endTime":1410.041,"body":"high end car that runs completely off"},{"startTime":1410.041,"endTime":1415.426,"body":"electric and we'll market it to high"},{"startTime":1410.041,"endTime":1415.426,"body":"end clients, and then the money that we"},{"startTime":1415.426,"endTime":1417.216,"body":"get, because that's a high margin car."},{"startTime":1417.606,"endTime":1418.956,"body":"We make a lot of profit on the car."},{"startTime":1419.166,"endTime":1422.246,"body":"The money that we get from that car, we'll"},{"startTime":1419.166,"endTime":1422.246,"body":"turn around and invest in developing a..."},{"startTime":1422.621,"endTime":1427.031,"body":"A super affordable car an affordable car"},{"startTime":1422.621,"endTime":1427.031,"body":"a car that's under whatever I don't know"},{"startTime":1427.261,"endTime":1430.371,"body":"thirty thousand dollars But the the tesla"},{"startTime":1427.261,"endTime":1430.371,"body":"equivalent of thirty thousand dollars is"},{"startTime":1430.371,"endTime":1433.421,"body":"probably eighty thousand dollars I don't"},{"startTime":1430.371,"endTime":1433.421,"body":"know how much normal Tesla costs But the"},{"startTime":1433.421,"endTime":1436.761,"body":"point is they have one strategy And that"},{"startTime":1433.421,"endTime":1436.761,"body":"strategy is still going because they still"},{"startTime":1436.761,"endTime":1440.891,"body":"produce that line of cars And they leap"},{"startTime":1436.761,"endTime":1440.891,"body":"they use the money and they leap from"},{"startTime":1440.891,"endTime":1442.671,"body":"that one strategy to another strategy"},{"startTime":1442.841,"endTime":1446.541,"body":"Now, segmenting the market and"},{"startTime":1442.841,"endTime":1446.541,"body":"proving that strategy will work,"},{"startTime":1446.991,"endTime":1448.821,"body":"that's a whole different deal."},{"startTime":1449.041,"endTime":1453.631,"body":"And also below the strategy is"},{"startTime":1449.041,"endTime":1453.631,"body":"what is the problem that we are"},{"startTime":1453.701,"endTime":1455.791,"body":"seeking to solve with this strategy."},{"startTime":1456.521,"endTime":1459.901,"body":"A lot of people start with the, what"},{"startTime":1456.521,"endTime":1459.901,"body":"is the problem we're seeking to solve."},{"startTime":1460.001,"endTime":1463.011,"body":"First and reverse engineer"},{"startTime":1460.001,"endTime":1463.011,"body":"their way back to the strategy."},{"startTime":1463.011,"endTime":1464.581,"body":"And that is completely okay."},{"startTime":1464.781,"endTime":1467.361,"body":"I'm not trying to say that's, that's"},{"startTime":1464.781,"endTime":1467.361,"body":"wrong or whatever, because there could be"},{"startTime":1467.541,"endTime":1469.831,"body":"several problems at one strategy solves."},{"startTime":1470.541,"endTime":1471.971,"body":"It's okay to work backwards at this."},{"startTime":1472.021,"endTime":1475.241,"body":"The point is I'm not starting on the"},{"startTime":1472.021,"endTime":1475.241,"body":"bottom of this chart saying we're going"},{"startTime":1475.251,"endTime":1479.161,"body":"to develop this and then trying to work"},{"startTime":1475.251,"endTime":1479.161,"body":"our way all the way back up to the vision."},{"startTime":1479.421,"endTime":1483.431,"body":"That's not the way that this, that"},{"startTime":1479.421,"endTime":1483.431,"body":"you, I don't, I doubt very much"},{"startTime":1483.431,"endTime":1484.671,"body":"you'll be successful that way."},{"startTime":1485.231,"endTime":1488.601,"body":"Maybe if you start with a goal"},{"startTime":1485.231,"endTime":1488.601,"body":"and you work your way back up to"},{"startTime":1488.601,"endTime":1491.536,"body":"the problem, but I, that, that,"},{"startTime":1488.601,"endTime":1491.536,"body":"even that seems like you're."},{"startTime":1492.516,"endTime":1496.126,"body":"for a, you're searching for"},{"startTime":1492.516,"endTime":1496.126,"body":"a problem for your solution."},{"startTime":1496.286,"endTime":1497.986,"body":"That's what it seems like to me."},{"startTime":1498.036,"endTime":1501.126,"body":"I think the, where you start is, either"},{"startTime":1498.036,"endTime":1501.126,"body":"you start with a problem or you start with"},{"startTime":1501.126,"endTime":1502.856,"body":"a strategy and you get either of those."},{"startTime":1503.056,"endTime":1505.586,"body":"From your company vision or your"},{"startTime":1503.056,"endTime":1505.586,"body":"product vision, one or the other."},{"startTime":1506.256,"endTime":1509.496,"body":"this is sort of like my own six"},{"startTime":1506.256,"endTime":1509.496,"body":"pager because each section of the six"},{"startTime":1509.496,"endTime":1512.126,"body":"pager fits one of these categories."},{"startTime":1512.126,"endTime":1514.776,"body":"And the, the, the gold bars on the left."},{"startTime":1514.776,"endTime":1517.146,"body":"Hey, we only, we're only"},{"startTime":1514.776,"endTime":1517.146,"body":"showing you gold bars."},{"startTime":1517.366,"endTime":1518.066,"body":"The gold bars on the left."},{"startTime":1519.061,"endTime":1523.171,"body":"Mission and Vision, Strategy,"},{"startTime":1519.061,"endTime":1523.171,"body":"the Diagnosis, the Guiding"},{"startTime":1523.171,"endTime":1525.611,"body":"Policy, and the Actions that"},{"startTime":1523.171,"endTime":1525.611,"body":"come from that Guiding Policy."},{"startTime":1525.831,"endTime":1529.741,"body":"Those all come from the Richard Rumelt,"},{"startTime":1525.831,"endTime":1529.741,"body":"Good Strategy, Bad Strategy book."},{"startTime":1530.098,"endTime":1533.048,"body":"Oh yeah, this is, this is"},{"startTime":1530.098,"endTime":1533.048,"body":"uh, so this is gold here."},{"startTime":1533.108,"endTime":1533.408,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":1533.418,"endTime":1533.998,"body":"And gray and blue."},{"startTime":1534.378,"endTime":1535.453,"body":"But um, the thing that..."},{"startTime":1535.453,"endTime":1535.978,"body":"Is that pretty gray?"},{"startTime":1536.918,"endTime":1537.288,"body":"A little."},{"startTime":1537.808,"endTime":1539.998,"body":"This is, this is I think..."},{"startTime":1540.708,"endTime":1545.968,"body":"A lot better as a tool to"},{"startTime":1540.708,"endTime":1545.968,"body":"collaborate with others in, in co"},{"startTime":1545.968,"endTime":1547.498,"body":"creating some of this stuff, right?"},{"startTime":1547.508,"endTime":1551.498,"body":"I mean, the mission may be given to"},{"startTime":1547.508,"endTime":1551.498,"body":"you because you're a product manager."},{"startTime":1551.498,"endTime":1552.468,"body":"The company is huge."},{"startTime":1552.468,"endTime":1553.968,"body":"They've got various lines of products."},{"startTime":1554.178,"endTime":1556.228,"body":"You're not going to create"},{"startTime":1554.178,"endTime":1556.228,"body":"a new vision necessarily."},{"startTime":1556.368,"endTime":1558.058,"body":"Might have a product"},{"startTime":1556.368,"endTime":1558.058,"body":"vision that you work on."},{"startTime":1558.478,"endTime":1563.258,"body":"But when you're collaborating in Miro, in"},{"startTime":1558.478,"endTime":1563.258,"body":"your, in your case, it could be anything."},{"startTime":1563.958,"endTime":1565.228,"body":"This is fantastic."},{"startTime":1565.798,"endTime":1568.278,"body":"You're still not going to go"},{"startTime":1565.798,"endTime":1568.278,"body":"to a CFO and say, look at this."},{"startTime":1568.308,"endTime":1569.368,"body":"I've done all this work."},{"startTime":1569.378,"endTime":1570.068,"body":"Please give me money."},{"startTime":1570.338,"endTime":1570.638,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":1570.738,"endTime":1571.448,"body":"It's all gonna work."},{"startTime":1571.578,"endTime":1573.828,"body":"Well, each of you, I mean,"},{"startTime":1571.578,"endTime":1573.828,"body":"your, your strategies, your"},{"startTime":1573.828,"endTime":1575.418,"body":"strategies should be measurable."},{"startTime":1575.448,"endTime":1577.478,"body":"I mean, this is where OKRs"},{"startTime":1575.448,"endTime":1577.478,"body":"kind of come in as a framework."},{"startTime":1577.478,"endTime":1578.868,"body":"Your strategies should be measurable."},{"startTime":1579.028,"endTime":1583.798,"body":"Your goals and objectives and the"},{"startTime":1579.028,"endTime":1583.798,"body":"actions or experiments you're,"},{"startTime":1583.798,"endTime":1587.898,"body":"you're moving forward with to figure"},{"startTime":1583.798,"endTime":1587.898,"body":"out which goal or objective is the"},{"startTime":1587.898,"endTime":1589.218,"body":"right one to move forward with."},{"startTime":1589.548,"endTime":1592.858,"body":"All those experiments, like they"},{"startTime":1589.548,"endTime":1592.858,"body":"may not be part of your initial"},{"startTime":1592.858,"endTime":1595.208,"body":"document because you need to engage"},{"startTime":1592.858,"endTime":1595.208,"body":"a team to figure all that stuff out."},{"startTime":1595.688,"endTime":1598.178,"body":"So like the high level goals, maybe."},{"startTime":1599.593,"endTime":1604.413,"body":"Maybe that'll be part of like, these are"},{"startTime":1599.593,"endTime":1604.413,"body":"some things that we could try would be"},{"startTime":1604.413,"endTime":1610.783,"body":"part of your six pager, your PRD, but"},{"startTime":1604.413,"endTime":1610.783,"body":"you got to be ready to throw all those"},{"startTime":1610.813,"endTime":1614.863,"body":"out as soon as like, Oh, we did, we did"},{"startTime":1610.813,"endTime":1614.863,"body":"a couple of actions to figure out if"},{"startTime":1614.863,"endTime":1616.153,"body":"this is the right goal or objective."},{"startTime":1616.153,"endTime":1618.963,"body":"And we found out very quickly that"},{"startTime":1616.153,"endTime":1618.963,"body":"like, these are all everything I put"},{"startTime":1618.963,"endTime":1620.353,"body":"in the PRD or all the wrong goals."},{"startTime":1620.653,"endTime":1621.283,"body":"And that's okay,"},{"startTime":1621.343,"endTime":1623.313,"body":"So it should be okay, should be okay."},{"startTime":1623.503,"endTime":1626.793,"body":"But again, like if you're, if you're an"},{"startTime":1623.503,"endTime":1626.793,"body":"environment where you don't get any, any"},{"startTime":1626.803,"endTime":1633.553,"body":"shred of funding until, you know, the"},{"startTime":1626.803,"endTime":1633.553,"body":"finances, until finances on your side."},{"startTime":1633.873,"endTime":1637.453,"body":"This graphic, what I just showed,"},{"startTime":1633.873,"endTime":1637.453,"body":"everything relies on you trying"},{"startTime":1637.483,"endTime":1639.913,"body":"a couple of different things"},{"startTime":1637.483,"endTime":1639.913,"body":"to figure out where the signals"},{"startTime":1639.913,"endTime":1641.503,"body":"at, Hey, is this the right goal?"},{"startTime":1641.893,"endTime":1643.283,"body":"Hey, is this the right strategy?"},{"startTime":1643.433,"endTime":1645.553,"body":"Hey, is this the right"},{"startTime":1643.433,"endTime":1645.553,"body":"problem for these customers?"},{"startTime":1645.583,"endTime":1645.933,"body":"Right?"},{"startTime":1647.308,"endTime":1648.268,"body":"Let's make sure."},{"startTime":1648.278,"endTime":1649.168,"body":"We got to make sure,"},{"startTime":1650.138,"endTime":1653.998,"body":"I guess you can, you could, you could"},{"startTime":1650.138,"endTime":1653.998,"body":"say, but when you're writing the PRD"},{"startTime":1653.998,"endTime":1658.398,"body":"part of writing the PRD is the process"},{"startTime":1653.998,"endTime":1658.398,"body":"of making sure it's the right problem,"},{"startTime":1658.898,"endTime":1664.168,"body":"but I don't know that the PRD just seems"},{"startTime":1658.898,"endTime":1664.168,"body":"to me like it seems too easy to take"},{"startTime":1664.198,"endTime":1668.418,"body":"the template of the PRD and go over here"},{"startTime":1664.198,"endTime":1668.418,"body":"in the business and do it in a silo."},{"startTime":1669.548,"endTime":1670.098,"body":"You know what I mean?"},{"startTime":1670.108,"endTime":1675.448,"body":"It seems too easy to fall into that trap,"},{"startTime":1670.108,"endTime":1675.448,"body":"and that's why I'm super, I don't know,"},{"startTime":1675.448,"endTime":1679.478,"body":"man, I'm, I'm still, the more we talk"},{"startTime":1675.448,"endTime":1679.478,"body":"about it in this podcast, the more I'm"},{"startTime":1679.478,"endTime":1683.428,"body":"really on the fence about these giant"},{"startTime":1679.478,"endTime":1683.428,"body":"documents about everything we could do."},{"startTime":1683.728,"endTime":1685.358,"body":"They shouldn't be giant documents, right?"},{"startTime":1685.358,"endTime":1690.318,"body":"It's, it's a six pager at worst, and"},{"startTime":1685.358,"endTime":1690.318,"body":"maybe just a mirror board at best."},{"startTime":1690.833,"endTime":1692.943,"body":"So it should not be a giant document."},{"startTime":1693.503,"endTime":1696.863,"body":"If it takes you longer to read"},{"startTime":1693.503,"endTime":1696.863,"body":"a PRD than it does to consume a"},{"startTime":1696.863,"endTime":1698.633,"body":"cup of coffee, you've not got it."},{"startTime":1698.713,"endTime":1700.728,"body":"Yeah, on that statement, I agree with you."},{"startTime":1700.728,"endTime":1705.098,"body":"If it's going to stay as a, this"},{"startTime":1700.728,"endTime":1705.098,"body":"is the core of what we're doing."},{"startTime":1705.172,"endTime":1707.992,"body":"I guess what I'm asking is, is a PRD"},{"startTime":1705.172,"endTime":1707.992,"body":"considered the thing that you need to"},{"startTime":1707.992,"endTime":1711.932,"body":"launch and then once it's live, it works"},{"startTime":1707.992,"endTime":1711.932,"body":"through all the rest of the reporting"},{"startTime":1711.932,"endTime":1715.687,"body":"mechanisms of the business or Is, do you"},{"startTime":1711.932,"endTime":1715.687,"body":"have to keep coming back to the original"},{"startTime":1715.687,"endTime":1717.637,"body":"document and making sure it's current?"},{"startTime":1717.647,"endTime":1718.527,"body":"I guess that's my question."},{"startTime":1718.527,"endTime":1721.497,"body":"That's, that's a really good"},{"startTime":1718.527,"endTime":1721.497,"body":"question because that is often"},{"startTime":1721.497,"endTime":1725.357,"body":"raised by those that are, you know,"},{"startTime":1721.497,"endTime":1725.357,"body":"vehemently against doing a PRD."},{"startTime":1725.427,"endTime":1727.437,"body":"It's too difficult to"},{"startTime":1725.427,"endTime":1727.437,"body":"keep up to date, right?"},{"startTime":1727.487,"endTime":1730.717,"body":"And I don't think there's a"},{"startTime":1727.487,"endTime":1730.717,"body":"black and white answer to that."},{"startTime":1730.717,"endTime":1734.767,"body":"I think the answer is it depends"},{"startTime":1730.717,"endTime":1734.767,"body":"because if your pivot is so hard."},{"startTime":1734.957,"endTime":1736.597,"body":"That your product looks way different."},{"startTime":1737.017,"endTime":1740.407,"body":"What you should have been doing"},{"startTime":1737.017,"endTime":1740.407,"body":"all along is to make those updates"},{"startTime":1740.847,"endTime":1743.407,"body":"so that a year later, you don't"},{"startTime":1740.847,"endTime":1743.407,"body":"say, wow, this is radically"},{"startTime":1743.407,"endTime":1745.387,"body":"different now and keep it updated."},{"startTime":1745.387,"endTime":1748.397,"body":"But that doesn't mean you've got to go"},{"startTime":1745.387,"endTime":1748.397,"body":"change all of the other stuff that you"},{"startTime":1748.397,"endTime":1751.917,"body":"showed on your diagram, the vision,"},{"startTime":1748.397,"endTime":1751.917,"body":"et cetera, doesn't really change."},{"startTime":1751.917,"endTime":1755.337,"body":"What changes is through the"},{"startTime":1751.917,"endTime":1755.337,"body":"results of these experiments we"},{"startTime":1755.337,"endTime":1757.207,"body":"conducted, we have found this."},{"startTime":1757.537,"endTime":1761.397,"body":"So we've basically validated or"},{"startTime":1757.537,"endTime":1761.397,"body":"invalidated our assumption, right?"},{"startTime":1761.717,"endTime":1763.157,"body":"And therefore we're making pivot."},{"startTime":1763.157,"endTime":1768.437,"body":"So in a long answer, all I'm"},{"startTime":1763.157,"endTime":1768.437,"body":"saying is Keep it updated."},{"startTime":1769.327,"endTime":1773.707,"body":"Design your experiments such that"},{"startTime":1769.327,"endTime":1773.707,"body":"the pivots are small enough and"},{"startTime":1773.777,"endTime":1775.567,"body":"don't go overboard with the details."},{"startTime":1775.567,"endTime":1777.367,"body":"Just put in the relevant stuff in there."},{"startTime":1777.877,"endTime":1780.537,"body":"Now whether you create a brand new"},{"startTime":1777.877,"endTime":1780.537,"body":"one depends on whether the product"},{"startTime":1780.537,"endTime":1782.367,"body":"is now so radically different."},{"startTime":1782.907,"endTime":1783.257,"body":"Right?"},{"startTime":1783.527,"endTime":1787.157,"body":"Then, yeah, you might, really nobody dies"},{"startTime":1783.527,"endTime":1787.157,"body":"on that hill if you create a new one."},{"startTime":1787.177,"endTime":1788.857,"body":"You simply point to it from the old one."},{"startTime":1788.908,"endTime":1793.138,"body":"So in the Amazon six pager example, the"},{"startTime":1788.908,"endTime":1793.138,"body":"opening sections are the purpose of the"},{"startTime":1793.138,"endTime":1794.948,"body":"document, basic executive summary, right?"},{"startTime":1795.113,"endTime":1798.113,"body":"The narrative, which includes"},{"startTime":1795.113,"endTime":1798.113,"body":"a bit of the marketing and the"},{"startTime":1798.113,"endTime":1799.483,"body":"audience segmentation and whatnot."},{"startTime":1799.743,"endTime":1801.463,"body":"And then the problem"},{"startTime":1799.743,"endTime":1801.463,"body":"you're trying to solve."},{"startTime":1801.473,"endTime":1805.423,"body":"Those are the three things"},{"startTime":1801.473,"endTime":1805.423,"body":"that are in the early sections."},{"startTime":1805.593,"endTime":1810.343,"body":"And then they go into solutions, meaning"},{"startTime":1805.593,"endTime":1810.343,"body":"which ways could we solve this problem."},{"startTime":1811.173,"endTime":1816.613,"body":"How is that different from like,"},{"startTime":1811.173,"endTime":1816.613,"body":"an epic and a feature and then,"},{"startTime":1816.703,"endTime":1819.263,"body":"jira has initiative and then epic."},{"startTime":1819.838,"endTime":1822.198,"body":"And then stories, right?"},{"startTime":1822.278,"endTime":1825.908,"body":"Aha has business objectives"},{"startTime":1822.278,"endTime":1825.908,"body":"and goals and, oh, okay."},{"startTime":1825.908,"endTime":1826.698,"body":"No epics."},{"startTime":1826.808,"endTime":1827.168,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":1827.198,"endTime":1830.458,"body":"I was going to say is there a reason"},{"startTime":1827.198,"endTime":1830.458,"body":"to write this in document form rather"},{"startTime":1830.458,"endTime":1837.063,"body":"than write the epic or initiative, let's"},{"startTime":1830.458,"endTime":1837.063,"body":"say like the super epic or initiative,"},{"startTime":1837.063,"endTime":1841.613,"body":"the high, high, high level work item"},{"startTime":1837.063,"endTime":1841.613,"body":"and into the high level work item, you"},{"startTime":1841.613,"endTime":1846.523,"body":"write the purpose and the narrative and"},{"startTime":1841.613,"endTime":1846.523,"body":"the market information and the problem"},{"startTime":1846.523,"endTime":1850.963,"body":"you're trying to solve and then in"},{"startTime":1846.523,"endTime":1850.963,"body":"the epics, you basically each epic is"},{"startTime":1850.963,"endTime":1853.563,"body":"a potential solution to your problem."},{"startTime":1854.413,"endTime":1858.443,"body":"And then from there, each epic, you can"},{"startTime":1854.413,"endTime":1858.443,"body":"kind of decide like which one we should"},{"startTime":1858.443,"endTime":1860.193,"body":"work on or test each one or whatever."},{"startTime":1860.193,"endTime":1862.593,"body":"And then maybe write stories or"},{"startTime":1860.193,"endTime":1862.593,"body":"spec out, you know what I mean?"},{"startTime":1862.613,"endTime":1866.193,"body":"To get your scope with some of the other"},{"startTime":1862.613,"endTime":1866.193,"body":"documents that I think weren't really"},{"startTime":1866.193,"endTime":1867.733,"body":"that great, but you could do it that way."},{"startTime":1867.993,"endTime":1874.428,"body":"I feel, there's a way you can do it"},{"startTime":1867.993,"endTime":1874.428,"body":"in, in whatever ALM tool you're using."},{"startTime":1875.188,"endTime":1878.168,"body":"And then it becomes like a refinement"},{"startTime":1875.188,"endTime":1878.168,"body":"activity more than it becomes"},{"startTime":1878.168,"endTime":1879.778,"body":"like a document review activity."},{"startTime":1880.408,"endTime":1884.288,"body":"I think you achieve the same objective"},{"startTime":1880.408,"endTime":1884.288,"body":"in the end, if you do it well, right."},{"startTime":1884.288,"endTime":1887.138,"body":"There's a structure itself"},{"startTime":1884.288,"endTime":1887.138,"body":"doesn't really change radically."},{"startTime":1887.138,"endTime":1889.348,"body":"It's just got different labels now, right?"},{"startTime":1889.348,"endTime":1893.568,"body":"You have a super epic and the super"},{"startTime":1889.348,"endTime":1893.568,"body":"epic contains some of these things."},{"startTime":1893.578,"endTime":1897.788,"body":"Then the, the narrative, for example,"},{"startTime":1893.578,"endTime":1897.788,"body":"maybe even the problem, some ALM"},{"startTime":1897.798,"endTime":1901.168,"body":"tools are better suited at this than"},{"startTime":1897.798,"endTime":1901.168,"body":"others that ALM tools that are product"},{"startTime":1901.168,"endTime":1903.228,"body":"centric, I think are better suited."},{"startTime":1903.268,"endTime":1905.858,"body":"Like I know about, I have"},{"startTime":1903.268,"endTime":1905.858,"body":"more than I do about."},{"startTime":1906.308,"endTime":1912.728,"body":"You know, other ALM tools , in the"},{"startTime":1906.308,"endTime":1912.728,"body":"product space, but, in the dev space."},{"startTime":1912.728,"endTime":1912.988,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":1912.988,"endTime":1917.538,"body":"I mean, you could create it that"},{"startTime":1912.988,"endTime":1917.538,"body":"way and then collapse that up"},{"startTime":1919.298,"endTime":1920.308,"body":"and expand it down as needed."},{"startTime":1920.668,"endTime":1920.878,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":1920.878,"endTime":1921.578,"body":"You could do that."},{"startTime":1921.638,"endTime":1922.298,"body":"You could do that."},{"startTime":1922.502,"endTime":1926.352,"body":"I was thinking to myself and I was"},{"startTime":1922.502,"endTime":1926.352,"body":"like, well, the, the business would"},{"startTime":1926.352,"endTime":1928.982,"body":"say like, well, the advantage of a"},{"startTime":1926.352,"endTime":1928.982,"body":"document is it's all in one place."},{"startTime":1929.382,"endTime":1931.722,"body":"And I can just read it very, very quickly."},{"startTime":1931.902,"endTime":1933.282,"body":"Plus they never go into LMTLS."},{"startTime":1933.332,"endTime":1936.342,"body":"And yeah, and I don't even know if"},{"startTime":1933.332,"endTime":1936.342,"body":"I have access to the system anyway."},{"startTime":1936.342,"endTime":1939.322,"body":"And also, the interface with JIRA sucks."},{"startTime":1940.532,"endTime":1941.552,"body":"So why would I use it?"},{"startTime":1942.922,"endTime":1943.462,"body":"And you know what?"},{"startTime":1943.482,"endTime":1945.282,"body":"I don't really have anything"},{"startTime":1943.482,"endTime":1945.282,"body":"to say against that."},{"startTime":1945.742,"endTime":1946.512,"body":"It does suck."},{"startTime":1946.592,"endTime":1947.022,"body":"It does."},{"startTime":1947.072,"endTime":1948.202,"body":"And why would you use it?"},{"startTime":1949.122,"endTime":1952.279,"body":"Well, when we're calling out the"},{"startTime":1949.122,"endTime":1952.279,"body":"problems in JIRA, you know we're done."},{"startTime":1952.329,"endTime":1957.779,"body":"I was already on the fence going into"},{"startTime":1952.329,"endTime":1957.779,"body":"this with an initial leaning of like,"},{"startTime":1958.079,"endTime":1962.359,"body":"this is a lot of bureaucracy to stack on"},{"startTime":1958.079,"endTime":1962.359,"body":"top of all the stuff I'm already doing."},{"startTime":1963.499,"endTime":1966.919,"body":"Now that we've kind of talked through"},{"startTime":1963.499,"endTime":1966.919,"body":"it with just like just for the alignment"},{"startTime":1967.109,"endTime":1971.179,"body":"throughout the business On launch not"},{"startTime":1967.109,"endTime":1971.179,"body":"necessarily on keeping it up as it goes"},{"startTime":1971.189,"endTime":1975.625,"body":"along but on launch I'm kind of leaning"},{"startTime":1971.189,"endTime":1975.625,"body":"towards it because every, every piece of"},{"startTime":1975.625,"endTime":1979.645,"body":"content you generated in this document,"},{"startTime":1975.625,"endTime":1979.645,"body":"you can take and move into your ALM tool."},{"startTime":1979.685,"endTime":1980.055,"body":"Easy."},{"startTime":1980.085,"endTime":1980.515,"body":"No problem."},{"startTime":1980.695,"endTime":1985.375,"body":"And I would even say like if an"},{"startTime":1980.695,"endTime":1985.375,"body":"enterprising couple of people wanted to"},{"startTime":1985.385,"endTime":1989.955,"body":"generate a Jira plugin that just auto"},{"startTime":1985.385,"endTime":1989.955,"body":"generated this, that would be amazing."},{"startTime":1990.395,"endTime":1992.615,"body":"I was on the fence when we"},{"startTime":1990.395,"endTime":1992.615,"body":"started leaning one way."},{"startTime":1992.905,"endTime":1993.705,"body":"I'm still on the fence."},{"startTime":1994.235,"endTime":1996.235,"body":"But I kind of, I don't know, I'm"},{"startTime":1994.235,"endTime":1996.235,"body":"kind of leaning the other way now."},{"startTime":1997.075,"endTime":1998.035,"body":"I'm happy to hear you say that."},{"startTime":1998.255,"endTime":2004.585,"body":"You know, I do want to say, in conclusion,"},{"startTime":1998.255,"endTime":2004.585,"body":"that if you're doing PRDs, and your"},{"startTime":2004.625,"endTime":2011.635,"body":"PRDs are 130 pages long, and you"},{"startTime":2004.625,"endTime":2011.635,"body":"have a nice, Document change history"},{"startTime":2011.635,"endTime":2015.605,"body":"and every little thing that somebody"},{"startTime":2011.635,"endTime":2015.605,"body":"puts in there, you're putting in your"},{"startTime":2015.605,"endTime":2017.215,"body":"change history, you've missed the boat."},{"startTime":2017.685,"endTime":2019.315,"body":"Yeah, and also, don't talk to me."},{"startTime":2019.635,"endTime":2020.475,"body":"Exactly."},{"startTime":2020.475,"endTime":2021.685,"body":"Who has time for all of that?"},{"startTime":2021.855,"endTime":2022.825,"body":"But that's what I see."},{"startTime":2022.825,"endTime":2024.885,"body":"I see project managers doing this stuff."},{"startTime":2025.515,"endTime":2029.865,"body":"Purely from a perspective of, I'm going to"},{"startTime":2025.515,"endTime":2029.865,"body":"document it so that nobody can blame me."},{"startTime":2031.225,"endTime":2032.895,"body":"Again, if you're doing that, you've..."},{"startTime":2033.19,"endTime":2033.78,"body":"Missed the boat."},{"startTime":2033.82,"endTime":2034.97,"body":"In fact, you're in the wrong port."},{"startTime":2034.99,"endTime":2039.8,"body":"I'm interested in anyone that's kind"},{"startTime":2034.99,"endTime":2039.8,"body":"of listened to, my ramblings on this"},{"startTime":2039.81,"endTime":2043.84,"body":"and survived the entire podcast to the"},{"startTime":2039.81,"endTime":2043.84,"body":"end congratulations to both of you."},{"startTime":2043.89,"endTime":2044.89,"body":"Go to ArguingAgile.com."},{"startTime":2044.91,"endTime":2046.28,"body":"com fill out the form."},{"startTime":2046.29,"endTime":2047.25,"body":"Yeah, that's right."},{"startTime":2047.53,"endTime":2053.4,"body":"Um, but, yeah, I'm interested , if this"},{"startTime":2047.53,"endTime":2053.4,"body":"really is like a change in anyone's minds"},{"startTime":2053.44,"endTime":2057.935,"body":"or if, if anyone came to any learnings,"},{"startTime":2053.44,"endTime":2057.935,"body":"cause I, like I said, I, I'm sort of"},{"startTime":2057.975,"endTime":2059.185,"body":"leaning the other way on this one."},{"startTime":2059.535,"endTime":2063.675,"body":"Well, yeah, and uh, if you've listened to"},{"startTime":2059.535,"endTime":2063.675,"body":"this and you've had some experience with"},{"startTime":2063.675,"endTime":2067.575,"body":"PRD's good bad Otherwise, let us know"},{"startTime":2063.675,"endTime":2067.575,"body":"we're interested in hearing from you."},{"startTime":2067.648,"endTime":2070.158,"body":"Oh, and uh also like and subscribe below"}]}