{"version":"1.0.0","segments":[{"startTime":0.05,"endTime":2.22,"body":"Self organization gone too far."},{"startTime":2.22,"endTime":4.47,"body":"Can self organizing teams go too far?"},{"startTime":4.84,"endTime":6.29,"body":"Somebody told me a story once."},{"startTime":6.4,"endTime":11.693,"body":"That a team that they were on asked"},{"startTime":6.4,"endTime":11.693,"body":"as part of self organization, if the"},{"startTime":11.703,"endTime":15.053,"body":"development lead could just assign them"},{"startTime":11.703,"endTime":15.053,"body":"all work and then they don't have to"},{"startTime":15.053,"endTime":18.143,"body":"worry about going through refinements"},{"startTime":15.053,"endTime":18.143,"body":"and they don't have to worry about going"},{"startTime":18.143,"endTime":20.819,"body":"through sprint planning because the"},{"startTime":18.143,"endTime":20.819,"body":"development lead just sends them work."},{"startTime":20.856,"endTime":22.076,"body":"In that, in that conversation."},{"startTime":22.288,"endTime":26.811,"body":"Somebody else asked, what they can"},{"startTime":22.288,"endTime":26.811,"body":"do with team members who feel like"},{"startTime":26.941,"endTime":31.601,"body":"all of the scrum events are a waste"},{"startTime":26.941,"endTime":31.601,"body":"of time, and if self organizing,"},{"startTime":31.611,"endTime":36.219,"body":"the, the why don't we just try it"},{"startTime":31.611,"endTime":36.219,"body":"phrase being applied,  carelessly."},{"startTime":36.219,"endTime":40.233,"body":"So this whole podcast is going to"},{"startTime":36.219,"endTime":40.233,"body":"be about self organization,  what"},{"startTime":40.233,"endTime":42.583,"body":"are the signs it's going wrong,"},{"startTime":40.233,"endTime":42.583,"body":"and then when you see those signs,"},{"startTime":42.583,"endTime":44.543,"body":"what can you do to course correct?"},{"startTime":45.033,"endTime":48.913,"body":"I, I feel there's not, there's not a lot"},{"startTime":45.033,"endTime":48.913,"body":"of that on, on the interwebs about this."},{"startTime":49.323,"endTime":53.153,"body":"No, there's, there's a lot of"},{"startTime":49.323,"endTime":53.153,"body":"wisdom about, how to do things."},{"startTime":53.173,"endTime":57.373,"body":"And then there's really not much,"},{"startTime":53.173,"endTime":57.373,"body":"as you said, around, around this."},{"startTime":57.383,"endTime":57.603,"body":"Right."},{"startTime":58.113,"endTime":62.783,"body":"Throwing around these ideas with"},{"startTime":58.113,"endTime":62.783,"body":"Reckless abandon even, I mean, just"},{"startTime":62.783,"endTime":66.943,"body":"saying we don't need the retro this"},{"startTime":62.783,"endTime":66.943,"body":"sprint because we just had one two"},{"startTime":66.943,"endTime":68.813,"body":"weeks ago and we're pretty good."},{"startTime":68.853,"endTime":69.073,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":69.163,"endTime":69.233,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":69.233,"endTime":69.823,"body":"We don't need it."},{"startTime":69.903,"endTime":70.633,"body":"Let's cancel it."},{"startTime":70.673,"endTime":71.133,"body":"We're too busy."},{"startTime":71.383,"endTime":73.073,"body":"Self organization gone wild."},{"startTime":74.233,"endTime":75.953,"body":"It's a title of a podcast."},{"startTime":76.003,"endTime":79.873,"body":"Hey, yeah, I think, I think you just hit"},{"startTime":76.003,"endTime":79.873,"body":"the title of the podcast right there."},{"startTime":79.873,"endTime":82.453,"body":"That's a, I don't know, like, I don't"},{"startTime":79.873,"endTime":82.453,"body":"know if I'm brave enough to name the"},{"startTime":82.453,"endTime":84.633,"body":"podcast, self organization gone wild."},{"startTime":85.843,"endTime":89.053,"body":"The process for this podcast is we're"},{"startTime":85.843,"endTime":89.053,"body":"gonna go through some of the signs that"},{"startTime":89.063,"endTime":93.143,"body":"self organization is to kind of run off"},{"startTime":89.063,"endTime":93.143,"body":"the rails and Then we're gonna talk about"},{"startTime":93.733,"endTime":95.453,"body":"what you can do to kind of course correct."},{"startTime":95.733,"endTime":100.633,"body":"So in no particular order"},{"startTime":95.733,"endTime":100.633,"body":"let's start with the lack of"},{"startTime":100.633,"endTime":102.603,"body":"structure or process adherence."},{"startTime":102.603,"endTime":106.106,"body":"So, this would be mine that I've actually"},{"startTime":102.603,"endTime":106.106,"body":"heard a team, that a team has tried to,"},{"startTime":106.176,"endTime":111.586,"body":"to get me to come along with it that I"},{"startTime":106.176,"endTime":111.586,"body":"resisted, in their attempt, which was,"},{"startTime":111.776,"endTime":113.486,"body":"we don't need to have sprint reviews."},{"startTime":113.556,"endTime":115.216,"body":"Oh, like we're an internal facing tool."},{"startTime":115.216,"endTime":116.666,"body":"This is real early in my career too."},{"startTime":116.716,"endTime":118.516,"body":"Like we're, we're an internal facing tool."},{"startTime":118.526,"endTime":121.727,"body":"All our users in house, we don't need to"},{"startTime":118.526,"endTime":121.727,"body":"have a sprint review, or, you know what?"},{"startTime":122.557,"endTime":125.227,"body":"Planning sprint planning"},{"startTime":122.557,"endTime":125.227,"body":"versus refinement."},{"startTime":125.247,"endTime":128.157,"body":"We don't see a difference between"},{"startTime":125.247,"endTime":128.157,"body":"sprint planning and refinement."},{"startTime":128.327,"endTime":129.587,"body":"We don't need both those sessions."},{"startTime":129.587,"endTime":132.287,"body":"We'll just only have sprint"},{"startTime":129.587,"endTime":132.287,"body":"planning and do all our refinement"},{"startTime":132.307,"endTime":134.977,"body":"as part of sprint planning because"},{"startTime":132.307,"endTime":134.977,"body":"it's refinement and planning is"},{"startTime":135.007,"endTime":136.177,"body":"they're just planning activities."},{"startTime":136.187,"endTime":138.207,"body":"We'll just do them all the"},{"startTime":136.187,"endTime":138.207,"body":"same in the same session."},{"startTime":138.937,"endTime":141.827,"body":"Yeah, I think the Scrum Guide only"},{"startTime":138.937,"endTime":141.827,"body":"mentions the word refinement maybe once"},{"startTime":141.827,"endTime":143.437,"body":"and it doesn't even say you should do it."},{"startTime":143.437,"endTime":144.997,"body":"It just says you might find it useful."},{"startTime":145.017,"endTime":148.877,"body":"Yeah, so teams can hide behind that"},{"startTime":145.017,"endTime":148.877,"body":"even they can say well look the Scrum"},{"startTime":148.877,"endTime":150.277,"body":"Guide doesn't mandate it, right?"},{"startTime":150.531,"endTime":155.321,"body":"So this is a great topic because yeah,"},{"startTime":150.531,"endTime":155.321,"body":"definitely there there can be meet"},{"startTime":155.321,"endTime":161.224,"body":"me on the team, like maybe the the"},{"startTime":155.321,"endTime":161.224,"body":"powerful tech lead who's assigning work"},{"startTime":161.284,"endTime":165.164,"body":"to people and saying you don't need to"},{"startTime":161.284,"endTime":165.164,"body":"worry about Thinking about the work."},{"startTime":165.164,"endTime":166.244,"body":"I know what we need to do."},{"startTime":166.244,"endTime":166.514,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":166.674,"endTime":166.924,"body":"Right."},{"startTime":166.954,"endTime":169.664,"body":"And this, this can actually, even be a..."},{"startTime":170.879,"endTime":174.779,"body":"A product owner saying, well,"},{"startTime":170.879,"endTime":174.779,"body":"this is what you need to work"},{"startTime":174.779,"endTime":176.309,"body":"on without explaining the why."},{"startTime":176.699,"endTime":180.409,"body":"So then you become a coder,"},{"startTime":176.699,"endTime":180.409,"body":"not a, not a development team."},{"startTime":180.879,"endTime":185.189,"body":"You're just basically cranking out"},{"startTime":180.879,"endTime":185.189,"body":"code without any regard to why."},{"startTime":185.349,"endTime":187.239,"body":"And if you don't know the why,"},{"startTime":185.349,"endTime":187.239,"body":"how are you going to make a"},{"startTime":187.239,"endTime":188.819,"body":"difference, right, to the customer?"},{"startTime":189.469,"endTime":191.589,"body":"You probably don't even know who"},{"startTime":189.469,"endTime":191.589,"body":"the customer is at that point."},{"startTime":191.639,"endTime":194.189,"body":"So lack of structure"},{"startTime":191.639,"endTime":194.189,"body":"and process adherence."},{"startTime":194.429,"endTime":195.929,"body":"There's a lot under that phrase."},{"startTime":197.009,"endTime":199.929,"body":"You know, lack of structure,"},{"startTime":197.009,"endTime":199.929,"body":"what kind of structure, right?"},{"startTime":200.489,"endTime":202.969,"body":"And then process adherence,"},{"startTime":200.489,"endTime":202.969,"body":"I think is self explanatory."},{"startTime":202.979,"endTime":205.689,"body":"He's just not following the process."},{"startTime":205.689,"endTime":207.329,"body":"I'm not suggesting you do it to a tee."},{"startTime":207.369,"endTime":213.349,"body":"I think you can suit the process or adjust"},{"startTime":207.369,"endTime":213.349,"body":"it to, suit the, the needs of the team."},{"startTime":213.399,"endTime":214.739,"body":"I think  the pushback."},{"startTime":215.109,"endTime":219.319,"body":"That's every, this is every Kanban team"},{"startTime":215.109,"endTime":219.319,"body":"that I've ever encountered in the wild."},{"startTime":219.569,"endTime":222.755,"body":"Like when I start with a company and"},{"startTime":219.569,"endTime":222.755,"body":"the team tells me we're doing Kanban,"},{"startTime":222.755,"endTime":224.359,"body":"we don't need your scrum stuff."},{"startTime":224.359,"endTime":225.819,"body":"That's,  too much structure for us."},{"startTime":225.819,"endTime":226.849,"body":"Too much overhead for us."},{"startTime":226.849,"endTime":233.549,"body":"We don't want, 15%, 20% of our"},{"startTime":226.849,"endTime":233.549,"body":"time in scrum event, meeting time."},{"startTime":233.549,"endTime":235.309,"body":"Basically, we don't want to"},{"startTime":233.549,"endTime":235.309,"body":"spend that much time in meetings."},{"startTime":235.999,"endTime":237.809,"body":"And, the pushback is what we're doing."},{"startTime":237.809,"endTime":239.719,"body":"Kanban we go on from"},{"startTime":237.809,"endTime":239.719,"body":"one thing to the next."},{"startTime":240.019,"endTime":241.029,"body":"And then when you dig in."},{"startTime":241.644,"endTime":244.264,"body":"You know, they're doing Kanban,"},{"startTime":241.644,"endTime":244.264,"body":"but they have no WIP limit and"},{"startTime":244.264,"endTime":246.154,"body":"they have 87 things in progress."},{"startTime":246.384,"endTime":248.204,"body":"And the things that have"},{"startTime":246.384,"endTime":248.204,"body":"been in progress have been in"},{"startTime":248.204,"endTime":249.214,"body":"progress for a really long time."},{"startTime":249.214,"endTime":253.204,"body":"So you ask them for their, lead time"},{"startTime":249.214,"endTime":253.204,"body":"cycle time, and they don't, they don't"},{"startTime":253.204,"endTime":254.914,"body":"even know what lead time cycle time is."},{"startTime":254.974,"endTime":258.144,"body":"Maybe I'll change my mind as"},{"startTime":254.974,"endTime":258.144,"body":"the podcast goes on, but this"},{"startTime":258.144,"endTime":260.014,"body":"category is really easy to spot."},{"startTime":260.444,"endTime":263.234,"body":"And the leadership is telling you, I"},{"startTime":260.444,"endTime":263.234,"body":"have no idea what the team is working on."},{"startTime":263.414,"endTime":265.004,"body":"I have no idea what they're"},{"startTime":263.414,"endTime":265.004,"body":"planning to work on."},{"startTime":265.854,"endTime":269.824,"body":"This, these are all indicators of"},{"startTime":265.854,"endTime":269.824,"body":"this category being a huge problem."},{"startTime":270.084,"endTime":272.724,"body":"You know, I've seen entire"},{"startTime":270.084,"endTime":272.724,"body":"development teams get canned for this."},{"startTime":272.994,"endTime":274.554,"body":"You know, they just get"},{"startTime":272.994,"endTime":274.554,"body":"rid of the whole team."},{"startTime":275.134,"endTime":276.494,"body":"Oh, I'd rather start over."},{"startTime":276.864,"endTime":279.904,"body":"Then try to work my way out of"},{"startTime":276.864,"endTime":279.904,"body":"this hole to try to communicate"},{"startTime":279.914,"endTime":283.034,"body":"and get this whole team of people"},{"startTime":279.914,"endTime":283.034,"body":"plugged into my organization."},{"startTime":283.034,"endTime":284.214,"body":"They, they say, no, I"},{"startTime":283.034,"endTime":284.214,"body":"don't want to do that."},{"startTime":284.414,"endTime":285.504,"body":"I just want to get rid of this hole."},{"startTime":285.724,"endTime":287.034,"body":"So I'll cut the whole program."},{"startTime":288.064,"endTime":290.584,"body":"That doesn't solve the problem"},{"startTime":288.064,"endTime":290.584,"body":"necessarily long term, right?"},{"startTime":290.724,"endTime":295.484,"body":"I mean, you start over again and then you"},{"startTime":290.724,"endTime":295.484,"body":"have the problem again with the new team."},{"startTime":295.554,"endTime":298.974,"body":"I agree, but, but I've seen it"},{"startTime":295.554,"endTime":298.974,"body":"happen because of this problem."},{"startTime":299.024,"endTime":299.284,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":299.784,"endTime":300.064,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":300.064,"endTime":302.154,"body":"And in real life, what that looks like is."},{"startTime":302.619,"endTime":304.729,"body":"There's really no"},{"startTime":302.619,"endTime":304.729,"body":"perception of motion, right?"},{"startTime":305.119,"endTime":307.689,"body":"Moving things forward from"},{"startTime":305.119,"endTime":307.689,"body":"a leadership perspective."},{"startTime":307.969,"endTime":310.879,"body":"When asked, the team says, yeah,"},{"startTime":307.969,"endTime":310.879,"body":"I'm working on that, right?"},{"startTime":311.159,"endTime":315.179,"body":"Things stay in the same column, as Brian"},{"startTime":311.159,"endTime":315.179,"body":"said, they keep starting, not finishing."},{"startTime":316.139,"endTime":317.049,"body":"So, easy to spot."},{"startTime":317.129,"endTime":318.459,"body":"Definitely, easy to spot."},{"startTime":319.349,"endTime":322.509,"body":"There are other, other signs"},{"startTime":319.349,"endTime":322.509,"body":"underneath this category."},{"startTime":322.959,"endTime":325.299,"body":"Like, for example, oh,"},{"startTime":322.959,"endTime":325.299,"body":"there's really nothing."},{"startTime":325.514,"endTime":327.004,"body":"Organized in the to do column."},{"startTime":327.184,"endTime":329.754,"body":"There aren't enough things there"},{"startTime":327.184,"endTime":329.754,"body":"because they hide under the guise"},{"startTime":329.774,"endTime":333.164,"body":"that well, we do emergent work, right?"},{"startTime":333.674,"endTime":337.304,"body":"Okay, you do but you know one or two"},{"startTime":333.674,"endTime":337.304,"body":"things you must know and whatever you"},{"startTime":337.304,"endTime":341.714,"body":"do know must be prioritized in some"},{"startTime":337.304,"endTime":341.714,"body":"way You got regularly replenish the"},{"startTime":341.714,"endTime":345.254,"body":"backlog and things like that when"},{"startTime":341.714,"endTime":345.254,"body":"they're not being done You know,"},{"startTime":345.254,"endTime":349.544,"body":"they're not following the structure"},{"startTime":345.254,"endTime":349.544,"body":"or the you know, or the process right"},{"startTime":349.624,"endTime":351.004,"body":"so what can we do?"},{"startTime":351.594,"endTime":354.464,"body":"That's the next thing right"},{"startTime":351.594,"endTime":354.464,"body":"under each one of these signs."},{"startTime":354.464,"endTime":357.629,"body":"We're gonna Share with you"},{"startTime":354.464,"endTime":357.629,"body":"what potentially could be done."},{"startTime":358.639,"endTime":361.059,"body":"I think you almost want to go"},{"startTime":358.639,"endTime":361.059,"body":"back with a team like this to the"},{"startTime":361.079,"endTime":362.829,"body":"definition of self organization."},{"startTime":363.109,"endTime":364.919,"body":"It doesn't mean you can"},{"startTime":363.109,"endTime":364.919,"body":"do whatever you like."},{"startTime":365.604,"endTime":368.064,"body":"Which is often misinterpreted"},{"startTime":365.604,"endTime":368.064,"body":"in that way, right?"},{"startTime":368.064,"endTime":370.054,"body":"So the term self organization."},{"startTime":370.257,"endTime":373.817,"body":"So I think you might want to start"},{"startTime":370.257,"endTime":373.817,"body":"there and say you have the autonomy"},{"startTime":373.847,"endTime":376.737,"body":"as a team to do these things yourself."},{"startTime":376.747,"endTime":382.137,"body":"Figure that out as a team as opposed to"},{"startTime":376.747,"endTime":382.137,"body":"Anything goes basically, because that,"},{"startTime":382.137,"endTime":384.367,"body":"that's just going to lead to chaos."},{"startTime":384.417,"endTime":387.827,"body":"Earlier in my career, I remember"},{"startTime":384.417,"endTime":387.827,"body":"working on development teams."},{"startTime":388.797,"endTime":392.397,"body":"A big reason for this kind of thing"},{"startTime":388.797,"endTime":392.397,"body":"might be that the product owner"},{"startTime":392.907,"endTime":394.677,"body":"to the team just doesn't show up."},{"startTime":394.817,"endTime":397.277,"body":"They're just not available"},{"startTime":394.817,"endTime":397.277,"body":"to the team at all."},{"startTime":397.567,"endTime":400.227,"body":"So you get some of this stuff where"},{"startTime":397.567,"endTime":400.227,"body":"it seems like the development team"},{"startTime":400.227,"endTime":402.407,"body":"is kind of going off the rails"},{"startTime":400.227,"endTime":402.407,"body":"and working on whatever they want."},{"startTime":402.431,"endTime":408.171,"body":"Because the, the team doesn't have"},{"startTime":402.431,"endTime":408.171,"body":"the availability of each, dedicated,"},{"startTime":408.981,"endTime":410.181,"body":"role that they should have."},{"startTime":410.931,"endTime":414.491,"body":"You may, you may also not"},{"startTime":410.931,"endTime":414.491,"body":"really have a product owner."},{"startTime":414.551,"endTime":418.461,"body":"You may have somebody who is"},{"startTime":414.551,"endTime":418.461,"body":"pretending to play the role."},{"startTime":418.461,"endTime":423.891,"body":"Maybe it's a proxy product owner or"},{"startTime":418.461,"endTime":423.891,"body":"under this, this idea of stretching"},{"startTime":423.891,"endTime":428.011,"body":"the term self organization too"},{"startTime":423.891,"endTime":428.011,"body":"far, you have team members rotate."},{"startTime":428.811,"endTime":432.151,"body":"In the role of a product"},{"startTime":428.811,"endTime":432.151,"body":"owner Fundamentally, I don't"},{"startTime":432.151,"endTime":433.321,"body":"have any issues with that."},{"startTime":433.461,"endTime":438.011,"body":"But in practice you find that they"},{"startTime":433.461,"endTime":438.011,"body":"don't necessarily Not every team"},{"startTime":438.011,"endTime":443.771,"body":"member possesses the skills they"},{"startTime":438.011,"endTime":443.771,"body":"need in order to Carry out the duties"},{"startTime":443.771,"endTime":445.551,"body":"of a product owner effectively."},{"startTime":445.651,"endTime":447.331,"body":"Yeah, so that's the problem with it."},{"startTime":447.341,"endTime":451.151,"body":"They're playing the role for a"},{"startTime":447.341,"endTime":451.151,"body":"while You don't have sprints."},{"startTime":451.161,"endTime":454.331,"body":"So let's just say for a week or a"},{"startTime":451.161,"endTime":454.331,"body":"month or whatever the timeframe is."},{"startTime":455.371,"endTime":459.141,"body":"And so I think that's what you also"},{"startTime":455.371,"endTime":459.141,"body":"need to look at and say, is this"},{"startTime":459.141,"endTime":463.131,"body":"really serving the team well, because"},{"startTime":459.141,"endTime":463.131,"body":"that's self organization gone too far."},{"startTime":463.131,"endTime":463.671,"body":"Probably."},{"startTime":463.911,"endTime":464.431,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":464.771,"endTime":469.434,"body":"I, I actually, I brought this up today"},{"startTime":464.771,"endTime":469.434,"body":"I said that usually there's a, with"},{"startTime":469.464,"endTime":472.424,"body":"regard to the products, there is a"},{"startTime":469.464,"endTime":472.424,"body":"roadmap and there's a constant discussion"},{"startTime":472.424,"endTime":476.214,"body":"about where we're going and there's"},{"startTime":472.424,"endTime":476.214,"body":"a real near term part of the roadmap."},{"startTime":476.214,"endTime":477.844,"body":"And then there's a longer"},{"startTime":476.214,"endTime":477.844,"body":"term part of the roadmap."},{"startTime":477.844,"endTime":478.244,"body":"You know what I mean?"},{"startTime":478.304,"endTime":481.414,"body":"Because, because the backlogs emerging,"},{"startTime":478.304,"endTime":481.414,"body":"like the stuff that's closer is way,"},{"startTime":481.414,"endTime":485.194,"body":"way, way more detailed and we know how"},{"startTime":481.414,"endTime":485.194,"body":"to measure it and we know what it is."},{"startTime":485.944,"endTime":489.564,"body":"And, and I said, there's another"},{"startTime":485.944,"endTime":489.564,"body":"side of the organization about the"},{"startTime":489.574,"endTime":493.644,"body":"organizational development of where"},{"startTime":489.574,"endTime":493.644,"body":"do we want to go as an organization?"},{"startTime":494.154,"endTime":495.324,"body":"It's 18 months from now."},{"startTime":495.334,"endTime":498.274,"body":"What, what type of organization,"},{"startTime":495.334,"endTime":498.274,"body":"how do we want our teams"},{"startTime":498.274,"endTime":499.364,"body":"communicating with each other?"},{"startTime":499.484,"endTime":500.874,"body":"How many teams should we have?"},{"startTime":501.444,"endTime":502.484,"body":"What's the breakdown?"},{"startTime":502.484,"endTime":503.594,"body":"What skill sets do we need?"},{"startTime":504.184,"endTime":509.424,"body":"And very rarely is that stuff,"},{"startTime":504.184,"endTime":509.424,"body":"made transparent and then put on"},{"startTime":509.424,"endTime":511.064,"body":"a board just like the backlog."},{"startTime":511.494,"endTime":515.014,"body":"And then, and then, and then we, and"},{"startTime":511.494,"endTime":515.014,"body":"then holding people accountable in the"},{"startTime":515.014,"endTime":520.224,"body":"organization to say what are you trying"},{"startTime":515.014,"endTime":520.224,"body":"this month to get to this future state?"},{"startTime":520.224,"endTime":522.814,"body":"And very rarely do organizations"},{"startTime":520.224,"endTime":522.814,"body":"do that with their teams."},{"startTime":523.304,"endTime":526.314,"body":"And I feel, if you have this problem,"},{"startTime":523.304,"endTime":526.314,"body":"lack of structure because your,"},{"startTime":526.744,"endTime":530.464,"body":"product owner isn't available, or"},{"startTime":526.744,"endTime":530.464,"body":"something, some other thing like that."},{"startTime":532.809,"endTime":537.039,"body":"And this, this piece of your organization,"},{"startTime":532.809,"endTime":537.039,"body":"organizational development is missing."},{"startTime":537.039,"endTime":538.809,"body":"Like, you may never bridge that gap."},{"startTime":538.869,"endTime":540.009,"body":"You may never get there."},{"startTime":540.087,"endTime":544.037,"body":"The details you need are just missing,"},{"startTime":540.087,"endTime":544.037,"body":"I think that's an excellent point."},{"startTime":544.037,"endTime":551.077,"body":"You make this idea of taking the"},{"startTime":544.037,"endTime":551.077,"body":"level of, I don't want to use the word"},{"startTime":551.077,"endTime":556.127,"body":"expertise, but you know, the prowess of"},{"startTime":551.077,"endTime":556.127,"body":"a, of a team or teams forward with time."},{"startTime":556.672,"endTime":558.812,"body":"And a deliberate plan to do that."},{"startTime":558.832,"endTime":560.902,"body":"That's, that's often not there at all."},{"startTime":560.922,"endTime":567.192,"body":"People just muddle through, and form"},{"startTime":560.922,"endTime":567.192,"body":"teams and, and disband teams, as you go."},{"startTime":567.822,"endTime":571.682,"body":"It doesn't need to be a, a plan that's"},{"startTime":567.822,"endTime":571.682,"body":"cast in stone, but it needs to be an"},{"startTime":571.682,"endTime":573.322,"body":"initiative that you can think through."},{"startTime":573.322,"endTime":577.912,"body":"And, and more importantly, have"},{"startTime":573.322,"endTime":577.912,"body":"people who are accountable to move."},{"startTime":578.707,"endTime":580.387,"body":"Everybody in that direction, right?"},{"startTime":580.437,"endTime":583.197,"body":"And that's missing most of"},{"startTime":580.437,"endTime":583.197,"body":"the times, from my experience."},{"startTime":583.318,"endTime":588.118,"body":"If someone is listening to this, like,"},{"startTime":583.318,"endTime":588.118,"body":"what can we kind of drop on them?"},{"startTime":588.708,"endTime":589.288,"body":"Drop on them?"},{"startTime":590.368,"endTime":592.588,"body":"Boy, my euphemisms today are terrible."},{"startTime":592.808,"endTime":593.558,"body":"They're bad."},{"startTime":593.848,"endTime":594.248,"body":"Um."},{"startTime":594.538,"endTime":595.538,"body":"What wisdom can we impart?"},{"startTime":595.538,"endTime":597.948,"body":"What nuggets of zen can we impart?"},{"startTime":598.308,"endTime":601.068,"body":"I think we impart enough zens, zens?"},{"startTime":601.418,"endTime":601.858,"body":"At them?"},{"startTime":602.498,"endTime":602.898,"body":"Something."},{"startTime":602.898,"endTime":607.758,"body":"No, I think the thing to recognize"},{"startTime":602.898,"endTime":607.758,"body":"here is there needs to be evolution"},{"startTime":608.828,"endTime":613.398,"body":"of your teams going forward and if"},{"startTime":608.828,"endTime":613.398,"body":"that is not recognized then, the"},{"startTime":613.398,"endTime":617.028,"body":"next step which is how you get there"},{"startTime":613.398,"endTime":617.028,"body":"is obviously going to be missing."},{"startTime":617.028,"endTime":617.898,"body":"So if you're listening..."},{"startTime":618.458,"endTime":622.208,"body":"And yeah, just remember that needs to"},{"startTime":618.458,"endTime":622.208,"body":"be there and look back and see, I mean,"},{"startTime":622.228,"endTime":625.628,"body":"how have you, how have your teams grown"},{"startTime":622.228,"endTime":625.628,"body":"in the last six months, a year, two"},{"startTime":625.628,"endTime":627.208,"body":"years, if you've been there that long?"},{"startTime":627.268,"endTime":627.518,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":627.848,"endTime":631.388,"body":"I would say that evolution is occurring,"},{"startTime":627.848,"endTime":631.388,"body":"whether you're tracking it or not"},{"startTime":631.558,"endTime":633.528,"body":"intentionally guiding it to a place."},{"startTime":633.888,"endTime":636.078,"body":"That's a different thing,"},{"startTime":633.888,"endTime":636.078,"body":"but that it's happening."},{"startTime":636.268,"endTime":637.538,"body":"It's happening with everyone you hire."},{"startTime":637.918,"endTime":639.068,"body":"It's organically happening."},{"startTime":639.078,"endTime":639.458,"body":"Yes."},{"startTime":640.438,"endTime":642.188,"body":"You might as well try"},{"startTime":640.438,"endTime":642.188,"body":"to direct it, you know."},{"startTime":643.353,"endTime":644.703,"body":"Or at least try to influence that."},{"startTime":644.708,"endTime":644.923,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":645.363,"endTime":645.903,"body":"Yeah, yeah."},{"startTime":645.903,"endTime":648.843,"body":"Or get that, keep that resume updated."},{"startTime":648.963,"endTime":650.313,"body":"Keep that resume updated."},{"startTime":651.963,"endTime":653.583,"body":"I just wanted to say"},{"startTime":651.963,"endTime":653.583,"body":"that I never say that."},{"startTime":653.583,"endTime":654.843,"body":"I never get to say that on the podcast."},{"startTime":654.843,"endTime":655.473,"body":"So I wanna say that!"},{"startTime":656.383,"endTime":659.593,"body":"Moving on quickly, you notice"},{"startTime":656.383,"endTime":659.593,"body":"that there is an environment"},{"startTime":659.613,"endTime":661.603,"body":"of decreased collaboration."},{"startTime":662.103,"endTime":664.893,"body":"Usually it's between"},{"startTime":662.103,"endTime":664.893,"body":"team members on one team."},{"startTime":665.113,"endTime":667.743,"body":"So let's, let's stick with that"},{"startTime":665.113,"endTime":667.743,"body":"for, for the purpose of just"},{"startTime":667.753,"endTime":668.583,"body":"getting through it quickly."},{"startTime":669.433,"endTime":673.713,"body":"Decreased collaboration, team members"},{"startTime":669.433,"endTime":673.713,"body":"isolate themselves, team members that"},{"startTime":673.713,"endTime":676.813,"body":"say, Oh, I'll just give me the next"},{"startTime":673.713,"endTime":676.813,"body":"work item and let me go off or whatever."},{"startTime":676.813,"endTime":677.153,"body":"You know what I mean?"},{"startTime":677.453,"endTime":681.473,"body":"Like I was on the team once where"},{"startTime":677.453,"endTime":681.473,"body":"I was trying to encourage both I"},{"startTime":681.503,"endTime":685.833,"body":"and the engineering, my peer on"},{"startTime":681.503,"endTime":685.833,"body":"the engineering management who"},{"startTime":685.843,"endTime":687.103,"body":"basically hired all the developers."},{"startTime":688.373,"endTime":693.023,"body":"We both were trying to promote"},{"startTime":688.373,"endTime":693.023,"body":"a culture where, yeah, you"},{"startTime":693.033,"endTime":695.113,"body":"could code features by yourself."},{"startTime":695.283,"endTime":699.073,"body":"I guess if you want to write, and then"},{"startTime":695.283,"endTime":699.073,"body":"only come like only pop out at the"},{"startTime":699.073,"endTime":702.853,"body":"end of the sprint or whatever at the"},{"startTime":699.073,"endTime":702.853,"body":"end of the, at the end of your work,"},{"startTime":702.853,"endTime":706.033,"body":"basically a code review time or whatever,"},{"startTime":702.853,"endTime":706.033,"body":"and they be like, Hey, I'm done."},{"startTime":706.033,"endTime":706.633,"body":"Here's all my code."},{"startTime":707.333,"endTime":709.953,"body":"But we were trying to say like,"},{"startTime":707.333,"endTime":709.953,"body":"Oh, the better process is to."},{"startTime":710.363,"endTime":715.103,"body":"Peer together and then you don't need"},{"startTime":710.363,"endTime":715.103,"body":"this like formal code review deal at"},{"startTime":715.103,"endTime":717.633,"body":"the end where you you know You go in"},{"startTime":715.103,"endTime":717.633,"body":"front of somebody and they stamp your"},{"startTime":717.633,"endTime":723.383,"body":"work if a pass fail, whatever The better"},{"startTime":717.633,"endTime":723.383,"body":"way is to sit together any of the even"},{"startTime":723.393,"endTime":727.733,"body":"better way is to take a couple people"},{"startTime":723.393,"endTime":727.733,"body":"and sit together While you're coding"},{"startTime":727.733,"endTime":730.633,"body":"the feature that we don't need all these"},{"startTime":727.733,"endTime":730.633,"body":"reviews and all this stuff afterwards you"},{"startTime":730.633,"endTime":735.383,"body":"you're already coming out with superior"},{"startTime":730.633,"endTime":735.383,"body":"code by having more than one mind on it"},{"startTime":736.063,"endTime":739.133,"body":"some people get it But some"},{"startTime":736.063,"endTime":739.133,"body":"people are just like, give me my"},{"startTime":739.133,"endTime":740.673,"body":"code and let me leave me alone."},{"startTime":740.733,"endTime":742.203,"body":"I want to go to my corner."},{"startTime":742.483,"endTime":743.403,"body":"I don't want input."},{"startTime":743.673,"endTime":743.923,"body":"Yep."},{"startTime":743.943,"endTime":746.873,"body":"Lock me in a room and slide some"},{"startTime":743.943,"endTime":746.873,"body":"pizza under the door once in a while."},{"startTime":747.733,"endTime":748.683,"body":"yeah, I agree with you."},{"startTime":748.683,"endTime":752.413,"body":"I think there are other symptoms"},{"startTime":748.683,"endTime":752.413,"body":"under this category too."},{"startTime":752.423,"endTime":756.05,"body":"Like for example, people, saying, well,"},{"startTime":752.423,"endTime":756.05,"body":"why do we have to have a retrospective?"},{"startTime":756.09,"endTime":757.05,"body":"We don't have sprints."},{"startTime":757.06,"endTime":757.74,"body":"So."},{"startTime":758.18,"endTime":760.01,"body":"What about this specifically?"},{"startTime":760.02,"endTime":763.24,"body":"Comment is what about"},{"startTime":760.02,"endTime":763.24,"body":"just skipping this thing?"},{"startTime":763.51,"endTime":764.89,"body":"I have nothing to add, right?"},{"startTime":766.0,"endTime":771.79,"body":"As opposed to a scenario where the team"},{"startTime":766.0,"endTime":771.79,"body":"collectively says, Is there an issue here?"},{"startTime":771.8,"endTime":772.54,"body":"Yes, there's an issue."},{"startTime":772.54,"endTime":775.35,"body":"We don't wait for a formal"},{"startTime":772.54,"endTime":775.35,"body":"event to be put on the calendar."},{"startTime":775.69,"endTime":776.305,"body":"Talk about it."},{"startTime":776.595,"endTime":779.875,"body":"Talk about it, just hold it impromptu"},{"startTime":776.595,"endTime":779.875,"body":"and just say, let's get together"},{"startTime":779.875,"endTime":781.575,"body":"for a few minutes and hash this out."},{"startTime":781.755,"endTime":786.245,"body":"This one thing that we've just"},{"startTime":781.755,"endTime":786.245,"body":"agreed collectively that is an issue."},{"startTime":786.675,"endTime":790.415,"body":"Don't park it somewhere, because"},{"startTime":786.675,"endTime":790.415,"body":"when are you going to do that, right?"},{"startTime":790.435,"endTime":794.355,"body":"And when you do do it, it's a longer"},{"startTime":790.435,"endTime":794.355,"body":"meeting, which then in turn feeds"},{"startTime":794.355,"endTime":796.935,"body":"that resistance and objection, right?"},{"startTime":796.935,"endTime":801.425,"body":"To having this thing called a"},{"startTime":796.935,"endTime":801.425,"body":"retrospective, just get it out of the way."},{"startTime":801.455,"endTime":805.655,"body":"So I guess where I'm leading with"},{"startTime":801.455,"endTime":805.655,"body":"all this is that the team needs to"},{"startTime":805.655,"endTime":810.09,"body":"decide collectively that there's Well,"},{"startTime":805.655,"endTime":810.09,"body":"there is not a need for something"},{"startTime":810.09,"endTime":814.12,"body":"that's been happening, and make a"},{"startTime":810.09,"endTime":814.12,"body":"decision collectively and move on."},{"startTime":814.31,"endTime":816.11,"body":"and there's also why would somebody..."},{"startTime":817.045,"endTime":820.725,"body":"Allow a strong personality to"},{"startTime":817.045,"endTime":820.725,"body":"anchor the conversations, right?"},{"startTime":821.575,"endTime":826.965,"body":"Maybe that person who is anchoring has"},{"startTime":821.575,"endTime":826.965,"body":"more knowledge about the domain or the"},{"startTime":826.965,"endTime":828.545,"body":"technical knowledge or whatever it is."},{"startTime":829.425,"endTime":834.525,"body":"So I think teams like this could use a"},{"startTime":829.425,"endTime":834.525,"body":"facilitator who could come in and maybe"},{"startTime":834.525,"endTime":839.885,"body":"just, try and level set a little bit"},{"startTime":834.525,"endTime":839.885,"body":"and say, yes, you have this knowledge."},{"startTime":839.955,"endTime":843.545,"body":"Maybe just set aside a little bit"},{"startTime":839.955,"endTime":843.545,"body":"of time and share that with others."},{"startTime":844.265,"endTime":846.535,"body":"Let's just move along on"},{"startTime":844.265,"endTime":846.535,"body":"this particular meeting."},{"startTime":847.0,"endTime":848.51,"body":"To the agenda that we have."},{"startTime":849.19,"endTime":849.72,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":850.27,"endTime":853.11,"body":"Like there's, I mean, we probably"},{"startTime":850.27,"endTime":853.11,"body":"could stay on this one, the whole"},{"startTime":853.12,"endTime":856.85,"body":"podcast, this particular item,"},{"startTime":853.12,"endTime":856.85,"body":"like a decreased collaboration."},{"startTime":857.11,"endTime":860.19,"body":"Cause the other side of this, you"},{"startTime":857.11,"endTime":860.19,"body":"just hinted at the other side of this,"},{"startTime":860.49,"endTime":865.79,"body":"which was, you have like a development"},{"startTime":860.49,"endTime":865.79,"body":"lead that comes to your sessions and"},{"startTime":865.8,"endTime":867.66,"body":"just shuts everybody down, you know?"},{"startTime":867.69,"endTime":868.2,"body":"Oh, that's just."},{"startTime":868.42,"endTime":869.08,"body":"Terrible idea."},{"startTime":869.08,"endTime":869.78,"body":"We're not doing that."},{"startTime":869.78,"endTime":870.53,"body":"That's ridiculous."},{"startTime":870.54,"endTime":871.32,"body":"Why would we do that?"},{"startTime":871.74,"endTime":875.08,"body":"I've been in sessions with"},{"startTime":871.74,"endTime":875.08,"body":"those development leads."},{"startTime":875.08,"endTime":879.31,"body":"They're real people and they"},{"startTime":875.08,"endTime":879.31,"body":"suck all the air out of the room."},{"startTime":879.4,"endTime":882.23,"body":"Oh, and you know what,"},{"startTime":879.4,"endTime":882.23,"body":"product owners as well."},{"startTime":882.23,"endTime":883.25,"body":"I've seen product owners like that."},{"startTime":883.25,"endTime":884.57,"body":"Like, this is ridiculous."},{"startTime":884.8,"endTime":886.14,"body":"This is going to take the whole sprint."},{"startTime":886.15,"endTime":887.74,"body":"These two items are going"},{"startTime":886.15,"endTime":887.74,"body":"to take the whole sprint."},{"startTime":888.56,"endTime":889.97,"body":"This is like a five minute task."},{"startTime":890.0,"endTime":892.14,"body":"And you know, I mean, they, they"},{"startTime":890.0,"endTime":892.14,"body":"don't, they don't understand the"},{"startTime":892.14,"endTime":893.93,"body":"technical details of going through it."},{"startTime":894.17,"endTime":895.82,"body":"They don't understand they're"},{"startTime":894.17,"endTime":895.82,"body":"dealing with technical debt."},{"startTime":895.83,"endTime":896.94,"body":"And honestly, they don't care."},{"startTime":896.99,"endTime":898.65,"body":"They have no, they have"},{"startTime":896.99,"endTime":898.65,"body":"very little empathy."},{"startTime":899.23,"endTime":899.87,"body":"And they don't care."},{"startTime":900.03,"endTime":903.6,"body":"That's the other side of"},{"startTime":900.03,"endTime":903.6,"body":"what we're talking about."},{"startTime":903.7,"endTime":907.43,"body":"A lot of our tips have to do with talking"},{"startTime":903.7,"endTime":907.43,"body":"to the members of your team, encouraging"},{"startTime":907.98,"endTime":912.09,"body":"kind of the shared responsibility with"},{"startTime":907.98,"endTime":912.09,"body":"the rest of your team members, and not"},{"startTime":912.15,"endTime":917.12,"body":"kind of dealing with one person who's"},{"startTime":912.15,"endTime":917.12,"body":"just steamrolling the whole conversation."},{"startTime":917.38,"endTime":919.79,"body":"There's another podcast"},{"startTime":917.38,"endTime":919.79,"body":"for that, I'm sure."},{"startTime":919.897,"endTime":923.987,"body":"If your team is experiencing this"},{"startTime":919.897,"endTime":923.987,"body":"though, just know that you're basically"},{"startTime":924.007,"endTime":927.917,"body":"heading down the wrong evolutionary path."},{"startTime":928.477,"endTime":930.297,"body":"Or it's not even evolution at that point."},{"startTime":930.487,"endTime":931.257,"body":"You're going backwards."},{"startTime":931.297,"endTime":934.067,"body":"Well, you were talking about like, get"},{"startTime":931.297,"endTime":934.067,"body":"someone who's skilled in facilitation."},{"startTime":934.527,"endTime":934.857,"body":"You know what I mean?"},{"startTime":935.097,"endTime":935.197,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":935.277,"endTime":939.357,"body":"Ask for someone, at least, even if you"},{"startTime":935.277,"endTime":939.357,"body":"can only get them for sprint planning."},{"startTime":939.567,"endTime":939.827,"body":"You know what I mean?"},{"startTime":939.827,"endTime":942.157,"body":"Hey, is there anyone in the company"},{"startTime":939.827,"endTime":942.157,"body":"that's really good at facilitating, even"},{"startTime":942.157,"endTime":943.407,"body":"if they don't understand technical..."},{"startTime":944.642,"endTime":947.102,"body":"Can we get them for our"},{"startTime":944.642,"endTime":947.102,"body":"sprint planning time?"},{"startTime":947.132,"endTime":950.172,"body":"You know, whatever, two hours every"},{"startTime":947.132,"endTime":950.172,"body":"other week, four hours every other week,"},{"startTime":950.172,"endTime":952.902,"body":"whatever it is, like, can we just borrow"},{"startTime":950.172,"endTime":952.902,"body":"them for that amount of time and see if"},{"startTime":952.902,"endTime":957.272,"body":"the business they just sit in the room"},{"startTime":952.902,"endTime":957.272,"body":"and Hey, you, you were saying something,"},{"startTime":957.542,"endTime":959.142,"body":"do you want to continue exploring that?"},{"startTime":959.162,"endTime":961.872,"body":"Like you can do that without"},{"startTime":959.162,"endTime":961.872,"body":"understanding technical details."},{"startTime":961.902,"endTime":964.692,"body":"You can tell when people are getting"},{"startTime":961.902,"endTime":964.692,"body":"talked over and stuff like that."},{"startTime":964.992,"endTime":967.532,"body":"I would hope the product"},{"startTime":964.992,"endTime":967.532,"body":"manager would have those skills."},{"startTime":968.112,"endTime":971.288,"body":"I really would hope I, I mean, I would"},{"startTime":968.112,"endTime":971.288,"body":"hope there's enough counterbalance"},{"startTime":971.348,"endTime":972.758,"body":"where that's not happening."},{"startTime":972.808,"endTime":974.898,"body":"Again, I've worked on teams"},{"startTime":972.808,"endTime":974.898,"body":"where that happened all the time."},{"startTime":974.898,"endTime":978.818,"body":"So I, I know it's not completely"},{"startTime":974.898,"endTime":978.818,"body":"reality, but also I'm trying not"},{"startTime":978.818,"endTime":979.778,"body":"to spend a whole podcast on this."},{"startTime":979.888,"endTime":980.228,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":980.228,"endTime":984.958,"body":"we kind of talked about inequality"},{"startTime":980.228,"endTime":984.958,"body":"and, and power imbalance, sabotaging"},{"startTime":984.958,"endTime":989.638,"body":"your self organization, which we kind"},{"startTime":984.958,"endTime":989.638,"body":"of talked about at the beginning of"},{"startTime":989.648,"endTime":993.738,"body":"the podcast, talking about the a lead"},{"startTime":989.648,"endTime":993.738,"body":"developer or whatever architect or"},{"startTime":993.758,"endTime":996.238,"body":"somebody just, Assigns everybody, tasks."},{"startTime":996.968,"endTime":999.178,"body":"And there's very little self"},{"startTime":996.968,"endTime":999.178,"body":"organization you can do."},{"startTime":999.178,"endTime":1002.488,"body":"And you're like, well, you own today,"},{"startTime":999.178,"endTime":1002.488,"body":"you're working on widget a and Brian"},{"startTime":1002.488,"endTime":1006.428,"body":"today, you're working on widget B and"},{"startTime":1002.488,"endTime":1006.428,"body":"Bob today, you're working on widget C"},{"startTime":1006.438,"endTime":1008.268,"body":"and then go off to your respective areas."},{"startTime":1008.268,"endTime":1009.988,"body":"Cause that's what I've tasked you to do."},{"startTime":1010.098,"endTime":1011.408,"body":"Here's your work breakdown."},{"startTime":1011.708,"endTime":1014.388,"body":"And you're going to follow these"},{"startTime":1011.708,"endTime":1014.388,"body":"lines on the chart until this date."},{"startTime":1014.398,"endTime":1017.438,"body":"And then you're going to cut the"},{"startTime":1014.398,"endTime":1017.438,"body":"quality and stop working on it there."},{"startTime":1017.753,"endTime":1017.863,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":1017.863,"endTime":1020.023,"body":"And you'll be done by the dates"},{"startTime":1017.863,"endTime":1020.023,"body":"when I tell you, you'll be done."},{"startTime":1020.023,"endTime":1020.663,"body":"Yeah, that's right."},{"startTime":1020.693,"endTime":1021.018,"body":"That's right."},{"startTime":1021.033,"endTime":1021.293,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":1021.293,"endTime":1024.723,"body":"I mean, that's certainly going"},{"startTime":1021.293,"endTime":1024.723,"body":"to stifle any kind of innovation."},{"startTime":1024.723,"endTime":1027.103,"body":"You might have, aspirations."},{"startTime":1027.133,"endTime":1027.443,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":1027.543,"endTime":1030.933,"body":"This is the complete opposite"},{"startTime":1027.543,"endTime":1030.933,"body":"of self organization."},{"startTime":1030.943,"endTime":1032.653,"body":"This, this is command"},{"startTime":1030.943,"endTime":1032.653,"body":"and control right here."},{"startTime":1032.653,"endTime":1035.183,"body":"Rather than collective decision"},{"startTime":1032.653,"endTime":1035.183,"body":"making, which is what we"},{"startTime":1035.183,"endTime":1036.113,"body":"were talking about before."},{"startTime":1036.113,"endTime":1036.123,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":1036.123,"endTime":1036.133,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":1036.403,"endTime":1038.583,"body":"Collaboration leading to a decision."},{"startTime":1039.003,"endTime":1041.943,"body":"This is authoritative decision making."},{"startTime":1041.943,"endTime":1045.233,"body":"What one, we all go to one person, make"},{"startTime":1041.943,"endTime":1045.233,"body":"a decision, and then we all have to wait"},{"startTime":1045.313,"endTime":1048.303,"body":"for that person to make a new decision"},{"startTime":1045.313,"endTime":1048.303,"body":"when we have to send them new details"},{"startTime":1048.303,"endTime":1051.483,"body":"or whatever, and then we wait and then"},{"startTime":1048.303,"endTime":1051.483,"body":"we're, then most of our time is waiting."},{"startTime":1051.873,"endTime":1054.213,"body":"I mean, maybe, maybe life"},{"startTime":1051.873,"endTime":1054.213,"body":"is easy in that environment."},{"startTime":1054.273,"endTime":1056.003,"body":"Maybe I need to retire and"},{"startTime":1054.273,"endTime":1056.003,"body":"work in that environment."},{"startTime":1056.003,"endTime":1056.893,"body":"Om, and that's what I'm saying."},{"startTime":1057.903,"endTime":1060.803,"body":"You see, you want to retire and work"},{"startTime":1057.903,"endTime":1060.803,"body":"in a command and conquer environment?"},{"startTime":1060.901,"endTime":1062.561,"body":"yeah, that sounds fun."},{"startTime":1062.561,"endTime":1062.871,"body":"Right?"},{"startTime":1062.931,"endTime":1063.731,"body":"It does for you."},{"startTime":1065.091,"endTime":1067.421,"body":"Somebody, yeah, for"},{"startTime":1065.091,"endTime":1067.421,"body":"somebody, definitely not me."},{"startTime":1067.692,"endTime":1071.402,"body":"Another sign that your self organization"},{"startTime":1067.692,"endTime":1071.402,"body":"is derailed is that your team is"},{"startTime":1071.402,"endTime":1074.282,"body":"not meeting its goals or deadlines."},{"startTime":1074.672,"endTime":1078.382,"body":"I'm gonna put in parentheses, I'm"},{"startTime":1074.672,"endTime":1078.382,"body":"gonna put deadlines with the little..."},{"startTime":1078.757,"endTime":1084.067,"body":"The little star next to it, and we'll"},{"startTime":1078.757,"endTime":1084.067,"body":"put milestones next to deadlines because"},{"startTime":1084.237,"endTime":1088.717,"body":"like see the podcast we did, where,"},{"startTime":1084.237,"endTime":1088.717,"body":"where am I see the podcast we did earlier"},{"startTime":1088.947,"endTime":1094.457,"body":"where I talk about like hitting quote"},{"startTime":1088.947,"endTime":1094.457,"body":"deadlines, they're just milestones."},{"startTime":1094.557,"endTime":1095.727,"body":"They're just milestones that you made up."},{"startTime":1095.737,"endTime":1095.917,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":1095.917,"endTime":1097.347,"body":"I'm like, all dates are made up."},{"startTime":1097.507,"endTime":1098.197,"body":"Everything's made up."},{"startTime":1098.207,"endTime":1098.887,"body":"That's what I'm saying."},{"startTime":1099.077,"endTime":1100.067,"body":"Welcome to the podcast."},{"startTime":1100.067,"endTime":1100.647,"body":"Everything's made up."},{"startTime":1101.657,"endTime":1106.557,"body":"Let's, let's ignore the obvious, elephant"},{"startTime":1101.657,"endTime":1106.557,"body":"in the corner in this, conversation,"},{"startTime":1106.557,"endTime":1110.007,"body":"which is all your deadlines are made"},{"startTime":1106.557,"endTime":1110.007,"body":"up by somebody who has no idea about"},{"startTime":1110.007,"endTime":1112.657,"body":"the work and they just give them to"},{"startTime":1110.007,"endTime":1112.657,"body":"you and they're already in the past"},{"startTime":1112.657,"endTime":1115.547,"body":"when they give them to you and you"},{"startTime":1112.657,"endTime":1115.547,"body":"can't, like, you're just failing, even"},{"startTime":1115.547,"endTime":1118.574,"body":"succeeding, you're still failing, put"},{"startTime":1115.547,"endTime":1118.574,"body":"that off to the side for a second."},{"startTime":1118.574,"endTime":1118.624,"body":"Okay."},{"startTime":1118.754,"endTime":1122.224,"body":"And let's talk about the teams"},{"startTime":1118.754,"endTime":1122.224,"body":"that they commit to sprint goals."},{"startTime":1122.664,"endTime":1124.394,"body":"They, they miss everything."},{"startTime":1124.394,"endTime":1126.254,"body":"They roll everything from"},{"startTime":1124.394,"endTime":1126.254,"body":"one sprint to the next."},{"startTime":1126.474,"endTime":1126.844,"body":"You know what I mean?"},{"startTime":1126.844,"endTime":1128.314,"body":"They say, Oh yeah, 20 points."},{"startTime":1128.314,"endTime":1128.814,"body":"No problem."},{"startTime":1128.814,"endTime":1129.254,"body":"20 points."},{"startTime":1129.254,"endTime":1131.334,"body":"And then at the end of the"},{"startTime":1129.254,"endTime":1131.334,"body":"sprint, they finish like five."},{"startTime":1131.684,"endTime":1133.914,"body":"And then continually every"},{"startTime":1131.684,"endTime":1133.914,"body":"sprint after every sprint after"},{"startTime":1133.914,"endTime":1135.294,"body":"every sprint is like that."},{"startTime":1135.324,"endTime":1135.574,"body":"You know what I mean?"},{"startTime":1135.574,"endTime":1139.144,"body":"Like that, that's, that's, that's the way"},{"startTime":1135.574,"endTime":1139.144,"body":"I'm going to apply what I'm saying now"},{"startTime":1139.144,"endTime":1141.064,"body":"about the teams not meeting its goals."},{"startTime":1141.369,"endTime":1144.909,"body":"Or deadlines, basically deadlines"},{"startTime":1141.369,"endTime":1144.909,"body":"that they set themselves and"},{"startTime":1144.909,"endTime":1148.049,"body":"goals they set themselves with,"},{"startTime":1144.909,"endTime":1148.049,"body":"well, with the product manager."},{"startTime":1148.599,"endTime":1154.959,"body":"Yeah, so if this is happening repeatedly,"},{"startTime":1148.599,"endTime":1154.959,"body":"yeah, man, so yeah, self organizing"},{"startTime":1154.959,"endTime":1158.509,"body":"so we're going to do this and we fail,"},{"startTime":1154.959,"endTime":1158.509,"body":"we're going to do this and we fail."},{"startTime":1158.959,"endTime":1163.549,"body":"Somebody needs to now on the"},{"startTime":1158.959,"endTime":1163.549,"body":"team say, it's not working."},{"startTime":1164.189,"endTime":1165.099,"body":"Why is it working?"},{"startTime":1165.559,"endTime":1167.389,"body":"So let's get together and talk about it."},{"startTime":1168.269,"endTime":1170.849,"body":"Ala the retrospective right"},{"startTime":1168.269,"endTime":1170.849,"body":"talk about it and say what are"},{"startTime":1170.849,"endTime":1171.909,"body":"we going to try differently?"},{"startTime":1172.199,"endTime":1177.149,"body":"Yeah, but Don't go out of your way and"},{"startTime":1172.199,"endTime":1177.149,"body":"say I'm gonna suggest we do it this"},{"startTime":1177.149,"endTime":1180.869,"body":"way now And that's the only way right"},{"startTime":1177.149,"endTime":1180.869,"body":"I'd say position that is an experiment"},{"startTime":1180.879,"endTime":1184.379,"body":"you say let's try for a sprint if"},{"startTime":1180.879,"endTime":1184.379,"body":"you're sprinting Let's try doing this"},{"startTime":1184.379,"endTime":1189.369,"body":"for a sprint and see if it Improves"},{"startTime":1184.379,"endTime":1189.369,"body":"how we fare at the end of the sprint."},{"startTime":1189.379,"endTime":1192.379,"body":"If you're only delivering 50% of"},{"startTime":1189.379,"endTime":1192.379,"body":"the work and then you try this one"},{"startTime":1192.389,"endTime":1195.799,"body":"little experiment and you get up"},{"startTime":1192.389,"endTime":1195.799,"body":"from 50 to 60, that's progress."},{"startTime":1196.569,"endTime":1198.639,"body":"So try and treat that as an experiment."},{"startTime":1198.649,"endTime":1201.139,"body":"You're going to find there's less"},{"startTime":1198.649,"endTime":1201.139,"body":"resistance from your team members."},{"startTime":1201.209,"endTime":1205.988,"body":"If you're doing it that way, especially"},{"startTime":1201.209,"endTime":1205.988,"body":"from those people that say, I'm just going"},{"startTime":1205.989,"endTime":1208.339,"body":"to go along with them, the status quo."},{"startTime":1209.219,"endTime":1209.449,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":1209.449,"endTime":1209.679,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":1209.729,"endTime":1213.539,"body":"You're going in a direction that we"},{"startTime":1209.729,"endTime":1213.539,"body":"don't normally cover on the podcast,"},{"startTime":1215.109,"endTime":1220.049,"body":"which is, yes, you are regularly,"},{"startTime":1215.109,"endTime":1220.049,"body":"you're regularly, I can't say regularly."},{"startTime":1220.259,"endTime":1223.529,"body":"You're regularly, look,"},{"startTime":1220.259,"endTime":1223.529,"body":"space station, Regula one."},{"startTime":1223.559,"endTime":1224.449,"body":"This is enterprise calling."},{"startTime":1224.639,"endTime":1227.939,"body":"Do you, you're, you're regularly"},{"startTime":1224.639,"endTime":1227.939,"body":"monitoring the team's progress."},{"startTime":1228.424,"endTime":1232.494,"body":"Like progress towards whatever goal"},{"startTime":1228.424,"endTime":1232.494,"body":"they've set, but also you have eyes"},{"startTime":1232.494,"endTime":1236.964,"body":"on their process and and how well"},{"startTime":1232.494,"endTime":1236.964,"body":"they're adhering to their process"},{"startTime":1237.834,"endTime":1242.844,"body":"Hopefully you do if that loop is"},{"startTime":1237.834,"endTime":1242.844,"body":"operating in your in your country Hey,"},{"startTime":1242.884,"endTime":1247.264,"body":"and yeah, if that loop is operating"},{"startTime":1242.884,"endTime":1247.264,"body":"in in your organization in your world."},{"startTime":1247.264,"endTime":1247.444,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":1247.504,"endTime":1251.56,"body":"If you don't have a loop a Backlog,"},{"startTime":1247.504,"endTime":1251.56,"body":"whatever roadmap or whatever that"},{"startTime":1251.57,"endTime":1254.985,"body":"that helps say like here's where our"},{"startTime":1251.57,"endTime":1254.985,"body":"organization wants to be In two years,"},{"startTime":1255.335,"endTime":1258.795,"body":"you have no idea if you're on track or not"},{"startTime":1255.335,"endTime":1258.795,"body":"like, Oh, we all want to be self managing"},{"startTime":1258.795,"endTime":1263.405,"body":"teams that grab from business initiatives,"},{"startTime":1258.795,"endTime":1263.405,"body":"create goals of their own interface with"},{"startTime":1263.415,"endTime":1267.145,"body":"leadership to double check things and"},{"startTime":1263.415,"endTime":1267.145,"body":"then, innovate and give us new things"},{"startTime":1267.145,"endTime":1272.825,"body":"that we had no idea were possible or we're"},{"startTime":1267.145,"endTime":1272.825,"body":"all punching the clock and, hoping like"},{"startTime":1272.825,"endTime":1274.435,"body":"looking like, Oh, is it five o'clock yet?"},{"startTime":1274.435,"endTime":1276.155,"body":"We're ready to go home"},{"startTime":1274.435,"endTime":1276.155,"body":"because we're all in office."},{"startTime":1276.155,"endTime":1277.695,"body":"Cause our CEO said we had to be here."},{"startTime":1278.532,"endTime":1280.532,"body":"I was running out of ground right there."},{"startTime":1280.842,"endTime":1282.092,"body":"I, yeah, absolutely."},{"startTime":1282.172,"endTime":1284.172,"body":"So I'm assuming that you're"},{"startTime":1282.172,"endTime":1284.172,"body":"tracking both of them."},{"startTime":1284.332,"endTime":1287.672,"body":"You're moving forward with the product,"},{"startTime":1284.332,"endTime":1287.672,"body":"you're moving forward with the process"},{"startTime":1287.722,"endTime":1292.772,"body":"moving forward with the organization"},{"startTime":1287.722,"endTime":1292.772,"body":"and, and there are feedback loops built"},{"startTime":1292.772,"endTime":1296.292,"body":"in at multiple levels, your own teams"},{"startTime":1292.772,"endTime":1296.292,"body":"have feedback loops for themselves,"},{"startTime":1296.522,"endTime":1298.572,"body":"but then you have a feedback loop."},{"startTime":1299.427,"endTime":1304.987,"body":"For the organization and what like what"},{"startTime":1299.427,"endTime":1304.987,"body":"we just threw out right now like boom."},{"startTime":1305.127,"endTime":1306.857,"body":"Yeah, that's a lot of stuff."},{"startTime":1306.947,"endTime":1310.907,"body":"Most organizations don't have"},{"startTime":1306.947,"endTime":1310.907,"body":"the organizational feedback"},{"startTime":1310.907,"endTime":1311.937,"body":"loop that you referred to."},{"startTime":1311.937,"endTime":1312.187,"body":"Right?"},{"startTime":1312.927,"endTime":1318.117,"body":"In fact, I would even venture out and"},{"startTime":1312.927,"endTime":1318.117,"body":"say most organizations, even at the team"},{"startTime":1318.117,"endTime":1320.807,"body":"level, that feedback loop, they're simply."},{"startTime":1322.647,"endTime":1323.957,"body":"We had a retrospective."},{"startTime":1323.997,"endTime":1325.857,"body":"We decided to do those two things."},{"startTime":1325.887,"endTime":1328.857,"body":"We put them in the backlog and"},{"startTime":1325.887,"endTime":1328.857,"body":"then we forgot about them because"},{"startTime":1329.317,"endTime":1330.417,"body":"we have other fish to fry."},{"startTime":1331.067,"endTime":1332.717,"body":"That's what I've seen most times."},{"startTime":1332.777,"endTime":1335.657,"body":"Now some teams are very good about that."},{"startTime":1336.807,"endTime":1341.767,"body":"Scrum masters as the facilitators are"},{"startTime":1336.807,"endTime":1341.767,"body":"very good about that in that during the"},{"startTime":1341.767,"endTime":1346.197,"body":"sprint, if you're sprinting, every couple"},{"startTime":1341.767,"endTime":1346.197,"body":"of days, three days, they will bring"},{"startTime":1346.287,"endTime":1350.687,"body":"that item up or those items up that they"},{"startTime":1346.287,"endTime":1350.687,"body":"decided to improve upon and say, Hey team,"},{"startTime":1350.687,"endTime":1352.717,"body":"we decided to do these things differently."},{"startTime":1352.747,"endTime":1353.667,"body":"How are we doing on that?"},{"startTime":1354.217,"endTime":1357.117,"body":"And so out of sign out of mind"},{"startTime":1354.217,"endTime":1357.117,"body":"is a bad thing here, right?"},{"startTime":1357.117,"endTime":1358.227,"body":"Because you're just simply."},{"startTime":1359.662,"endTime":1363.262,"body":"I've been on teams before that will"},{"startTime":1359.662,"endTime":1363.262,"body":"add some of their retrospective"},{"startTime":1363.332,"endTime":1365.012,"body":"takeaways to the backlog."},{"startTime":1365.362,"endTime":1368.532,"body":"And it's, it's, it's, it's"},{"startTime":1365.362,"endTime":1368.532,"body":"at that very bottom lane."},{"startTime":1369.407,"endTime":1370.707,"body":"That's like all other work."},{"startTime":1370.717,"endTime":1371.557,"body":"It's in that lane."},{"startTime":1371.567,"endTime":1371.947,"body":"You know what I mean?"},{"startTime":1371.947,"endTime":1375.057,"body":"It's not really tied to another epic"},{"startTime":1371.947,"endTime":1375.057,"body":"or initiative or whatever it's in."},{"startTime":1375.067,"endTime":1378.547,"body":"It's at the very, so when the, when the"},{"startTime":1375.067,"endTime":1378.547,"body":"team scrolls a board and they get all"},{"startTime":1378.547,"endTime":1381.837,"body":"the way to the bottom, the, all other"},{"startTime":1378.547,"endTime":1381.837,"body":"work is like move forward with this"},{"startTime":1381.837,"endTime":1384.817,"body":"process or figured this out or whatever,"},{"startTime":1381.837,"endTime":1384.817,"body":"like that I've been on teams that do it."},{"startTime":1386.982,"endTime":1389.062,"body":"Boy, have there been a lot of"},{"startTime":1386.982,"endTime":1389.062,"body":"teams that just don't, they"},{"startTime":1389.062,"endTime":1390.502,"body":"don't have it visible at all."},{"startTime":1390.792,"endTime":1393.202,"body":"I'm a fan of showing this"},{"startTime":1390.792,"endTime":1393.202,"body":"stuff on the dashboard."},{"startTime":1393.412,"endTime":1396.432,"body":"So, I encourage teams to look"},{"startTime":1393.412,"endTime":1396.432,"body":"at the dashboard every day."},{"startTime":1396.432,"endTime":1400.562,"body":"In fact, I use the, the dashboard as"},{"startTime":1396.432,"endTime":1400.562,"body":"a jumping off point from there to the"},{"startTime":1400.562,"endTime":1403.222,"body":"actual backlog or sprint board, whatever."},{"startTime":1403.852,"endTime":1408.422,"body":"So they, they look at it and they can"},{"startTime":1403.852,"endTime":1408.422,"body":"see a quick summary, if you will, where"},{"startTime":1408.422,"endTime":1409.852,"body":"things are at, what was our commit."},{"startTime":1410.227,"endTime":1414.167,"body":"You know what I say, do ratio looks like,"},{"startTime":1410.227,"endTime":1414.167,"body":"but they can also see what the improvement"},{"startTime":1414.167,"endTime":1419.967,"body":"items were that were decided upon and then"},{"startTime":1414.167,"endTime":1419.967,"body":"next to it, you put like progress on it."},{"startTime":1419.977,"endTime":1421.147,"body":"It's something not started."},{"startTime":1421.157,"endTime":1423.447,"body":"Then you can say, well, when"},{"startTime":1421.157,"endTime":1423.447,"body":"are we going to start on this?"},{"startTime":1423.847,"endTime":1424.937,"body":"Something in progress?"},{"startTime":1425.047,"endTime":1426.467,"body":"My question normally would be."},{"startTime":1426.912,"endTime":1428.792,"body":"You know, we're gonna"},{"startTime":1426.912,"endTime":1428.792,"body":"start on the next one."},{"startTime":1428.932,"endTime":1430.052,"body":"Is this done right?"},{"startTime":1430.442,"endTime":1433.652,"body":"So they shouldn't linger is my point here."},{"startTime":1434.032,"endTime":1436.092,"body":"Most of these practices should not linger."},{"startTime":1436.372,"endTime":1439.842,"body":"You put them in effect and then you"},{"startTime":1436.372,"endTime":1439.842,"body":"again inspect them at the end of your"},{"startTime":1439.842,"endTime":1441.852,"body":"sprint and say, Did this work for us?"},{"startTime":1441.882,"endTime":1445.817,"body":"Especially if it's an experiment to always"},{"startTime":1441.882,"endTime":1445.817,"body":"look at the results and then Feed those"},{"startTime":1445.827,"endTime":1449.497,"body":"back to the experiment and say, yeah,"},{"startTime":1445.827,"endTime":1449.497,"body":"this was a success or it wasn't a success."},{"startTime":1449.497,"endTime":1450.317,"body":"And that's fine too."},{"startTime":1450.487,"endTime":1450.747,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":1450.757,"endTime":1451.627,"body":"Let's try something else."},{"startTime":1452.307,"endTime":1454.217,"body":"We talked about a lack of collaboration."},{"startTime":1454.487,"endTime":1457.697,"body":"We're going to talk about a lack"},{"startTime":1454.487,"endTime":1457.697,"body":"of communication and coordination."},{"startTime":1457.697,"endTime":1460.747,"body":"Usually this is like the"},{"startTime":1457.697,"endTime":1460.747,"body":"collaboration aspect is inside"},{"startTime":1460.747,"endTime":1464.917,"body":"of a team and communication"},{"startTime":1460.747,"endTime":1464.917,"body":"coordination, I feel is outside of it."},{"startTime":1464.937,"endTime":1467.337,"body":"Like the team out to the"},{"startTime":1464.937,"endTime":1467.337,"body":"rest of the organization."},{"startTime":1467.367,"endTime":1472.163,"body":"And, I would say organizations"},{"startTime":1467.367,"endTime":1472.163,"body":"catch this problem faster than they"},{"startTime":1472.163,"endTime":1473.863,"body":"catch collaboration inside the team."},{"startTime":1474.248,"endTime":1478.218,"body":"Like they, they can see a team working in"},{"startTime":1474.248,"endTime":1478.218,"body":"a silo that's only kind of like looking"},{"startTime":1478.218,"endTime":1479.998,"body":"inward, very insular type of team."},{"startTime":1480.176,"endTime":1482.186,"body":"I can think of a bunch of"},{"startTime":1480.176,"endTime":1482.186,"body":"teams that I've seen like this."},{"startTime":1482.766,"endTime":1485.066,"body":"Yeah, these two C's as"},{"startTime":1482.766,"endTime":1485.066,"body":"opposed to the other C."},{"startTime":1485.066,"endTime":1485.676,"body":"Yeah, I agree."},{"startTime":1485.676,"endTime":1487.236,"body":"These are usually prevalent."},{"startTime":1487.821,"endTime":1493.301,"body":"You know outside on the periphery"},{"startTime":1487.821,"endTime":1493.301,"body":"and and again symptoms wise teams"},{"startTime":1493.301,"endTime":1497.631,"body":"will say we're waiting on So and so"},{"startTime":1493.301,"endTime":1497.631,"body":"but that's an external dependency."},{"startTime":1497.751,"endTime":1501.721,"body":"That's right, which they put on"},{"startTime":1497.751,"endTime":1501.721,"body":"the board as a dependency and"},{"startTime":1502.051,"endTime":1506.071,"body":"Yeah, those scrum masters that"},{"startTime":1502.051,"endTime":1506.071,"body":"aren't really doing the job, right?"},{"startTime":1506.091,"endTime":1508.066,"body":"They will say yeah, but"},{"startTime":1506.091,"endTime":1508.066,"body":"You know, it's there."},{"startTime":1508.116,"endTime":1509.026,"body":"We raised it."},{"startTime":1509.196,"endTime":1510.756,"body":"You raised it to to where?"},{"startTime":1511.096,"endTime":1512.336,"body":"Don't put it on a board."},{"startTime":1512.826,"endTime":1515.206,"body":"Try and focus on getting it off the board."},{"startTime":1515.466,"endTime":1515.826,"body":"Right?"},{"startTime":1515.856,"endTime":1516.386,"body":"So try."},{"startTime":1516.446,"endTime":1518.116,"body":"Yes, it's one thing to make it visible."},{"startTime":1518.116,"endTime":1518.586,"body":"Fine."},{"startTime":1518.626,"endTime":1519.306,"body":"But then what?"},{"startTime":1519.796,"endTime":1520.126,"body":"Right?"},{"startTime":1520.346,"endTime":1524.326,"body":"The goal should be to get rid of it off"},{"startTime":1520.346,"endTime":1524.326,"body":"the board, which means either to accept"},{"startTime":1524.326,"endTime":1525.996,"body":"it, mitigate it, resolve it, etcetera."},{"startTime":1526.836,"endTime":1529.996,"body":"And doing that involves"},{"startTime":1526.836,"endTime":1529.996,"body":"interactions outside the team."},{"startTime":1530.446,"endTime":1534.526,"body":"So when you have this kind of a"},{"startTime":1530.446,"endTime":1534.526,"body":"challenge, what it what it looks like in"},{"startTime":1534.526,"endTime":1539.386,"body":"real life is You know missed deadlines"},{"startTime":1534.526,"endTime":1539.386,"body":"or or work that's carried forward"},{"startTime":1539.446,"endTime":1542.526,"body":"right and then people hide behind"},{"startTime":1539.446,"endTime":1542.526,"body":"that we're waiting on them, right?"},{"startTime":1542.606,"endTime":1544.076,"body":"That's the classical."},{"startTime":1544.796,"endTime":1548.046,"body":"Oh, but the holes on your side"},{"startTime":1544.796,"endTime":1548.046,"body":"when you're in a boat, right?"},{"startTime":1548.086,"endTime":1550.396,"body":"And there's two people"},{"startTime":1548.086,"endTime":1550.396,"body":"rowing one at each end."},{"startTime":1550.686,"endTime":1555.335,"body":"Yeah, I was on a team one time where the"},{"startTime":1550.686,"endTime":1555.335,"body":"management, the people above product,"},{"startTime":1555.413,"endTime":1559.565,"body":"the business unit management, kept saying"},{"startTime":1555.413,"endTime":1559.565,"body":"like, well, we need to add another tool"},{"startTime":1559.585,"endTime":1563.155,"body":"other than, I don't remember what we"},{"startTime":1559.585,"endTime":1563.155,"body":"were, I think we were using Azure DevOps."},{"startTime":1563.175,"endTime":1564.585,"body":"They're like, we need another tool."},{"startTime":1565.42,"endTime":1569.14,"body":"To better map these dependencies so we"},{"startTime":1565.42,"endTime":1569.14,"body":"can tell what's got to get ended before"},{"startTime":1569.14,"endTime":1572.72,"body":"something else can start and what's"},{"startTime":1569.14,"endTime":1572.72,"body":"got to go in what order and I remember"},{"startTime":1572.72,"endTime":1575.2,"body":"it like it was like that meme with a"},{"startTime":1572.72,"endTime":1575.2,"body":"dude getting thrown out the window."},{"startTime":1575.445,"endTime":1579.7,"body":"You need to not consider picking"},{"startTime":1575.445,"endTime":1579.7,"body":"things up that have dependencies."},{"startTime":1579.89,"endTime":1583.44,"body":"You need to break these silos down"},{"startTime":1579.89,"endTime":1583.44,"body":"where I don't have to go do all the"},{"startTime":1583.44,"endTime":1587.42,"body":"testing with that team and do all the"},{"startTime":1583.44,"endTime":1587.42,"body":"data modeling with that team and do"},{"startTime":1587.42,"endTime":1589.58,"body":"all the data processing with this team."},{"startTime":1590.0,"endTime":1595.38,"body":"I'd rather have a data processor,"},{"startTime":1590.0,"endTime":1595.38,"body":"data modeler, data analyst, all on"},{"startTime":1595.38,"endTime":1598.22,"body":"one team and do the whole thing."},{"startTime":1598.59,"endTime":1601.99,"body":"Oh, what is the, what is the"},{"startTime":1598.59,"endTime":1601.99,"body":"analyst going to do when the data"},{"startTime":1602.27,"endTime":1603.28,"body":"modeler is building the model?"},{"startTime":1603.86,"endTime":1606.69,"body":"I was like, sit over their shoulder"},{"startTime":1603.86,"endTime":1606.69,"body":"and learn how to build a data model."},{"startTime":1607.13,"endTime":1609.11,"body":"It's like building data model"},{"startTime":1607.13,"endTime":1609.11,"body":"is not difficult at all."},{"startTime":1609.42,"endTime":1612.3,"body":"But, but, but we need"},{"startTime":1609.42,"endTime":1612.3,"body":"Enterprise Architect, or, we"},{"startTime":1612.3,"endTime":1614.37,"body":"need to create ER diagrams."},{"startTime":1614.76,"endTime":1617.04,"body":"Yeah, tooling is not the answer here."},{"startTime":1617.77,"endTime":1620.05,"body":"You have an org design issue, you have..."},{"startTime":1620.2,"endTime":1624.17,"body":"An issue to sort out with the teams,"},{"startTime":1620.2,"endTime":1624.17,"body":"communication, collaboration, right?"},{"startTime":1624.17,"endTime":1625.88,"body":"So you need to break those barriers down."},{"startTime":1626.59,"endTime":1627.35,"body":"I agree with you."},{"startTime":1627.39,"endTime":1629.23,"body":"People say we need a different tool."},{"startTime":1629.24,"endTime":1631.61,"body":"Let's just have a shared"},{"startTime":1629.24,"endTime":1631.61,"body":"Google Sheet or something."},{"startTime":1631.79,"endTime":1634.92,"body":"We can put all our dependencies on"},{"startTime":1631.79,"endTime":1634.92,"body":"there and we'll assign them to people."},{"startTime":1636.12,"endTime":1636.62,"body":"No."},{"startTime":1636.77,"endTime":1640.305,"body":"Try and get those, get everybody in a"},{"startTime":1636.77,"endTime":1640.305,"body":"room and say, look, we have these things."},{"startTime":1640.645,"endTime":1641.765,"body":"How can we sort this out?"},{"startTime":1642.005,"endTime":1647.765,"body":"Rework the way your work is currently"},{"startTime":1642.005,"endTime":1647.765,"body":"structured, slice it differently so that"},{"startTime":1647.765,"endTime":1650.325,"body":"these dependencies are largely, avoided."},{"startTime":1650.954,"endTime":1653.394,"body":"This is lack of communication,"},{"startTime":1650.954,"endTime":1653.394,"body":"coordination, like lack of"},{"startTime":1653.394,"endTime":1656.734,"body":"coordination might just be"},{"startTime":1653.394,"endTime":1656.734,"body":"lack of skill in coordinating."},{"startTime":1656.954,"endTime":1657.314,"body":"You know what I mean?"},{"startTime":1657.314,"endTime":1658.594,"body":"You don't know who to talk to."},{"startTime":1658.614,"endTime":1659.674,"body":"You don't know when to talk to them."},{"startTime":1659.934,"endTime":1664.724,"body":"You don't know, like, there is a time"},{"startTime":1659.934,"endTime":1664.724,"body":"to do planning to talk to other people"},{"startTime":1664.724,"endTime":1667.844,"body":"about what you're about to do to say"},{"startTime":1664.724,"endTime":1667.844,"body":"like, Hey, this is what we're about to do."},{"startTime":1667.854,"endTime":1668.654,"body":"Here's a concept."},{"startTime":1668.894,"endTime":1670.014,"body":"This is what we're thinking about."},{"startTime":1670.194,"endTime":1675.154,"body":"This could be as easy as bringing people"},{"startTime":1670.194,"endTime":1675.154,"body":"in from other teams or like tech leads"},{"startTime":1675.154,"endTime":1676.354,"body":"that are responsible for other teams."},{"startTime":1676.674,"endTime":1679.604,"body":"Bring them into your sprint review  at"},{"startTime":1676.674,"endTime":1679.604,"body":"the end of your planning when everything's"},{"startTime":1679.604,"endTime":1683.034,"body":"planned to just have them just review"},{"startTime":1679.604,"endTime":1683.034,"body":"everything you're about to do with them."},{"startTime":1683.035,"endTime":1684.174,"body":"It takes 10 minutes."},{"startTime":1684.494,"endTime":1685.494,"body":"That's not a lot of time."},{"startTime":1685.674,"endTime":1688.154,"body":"You spent four hours in"},{"startTime":1685.674,"endTime":1688.154,"body":"the room, 10 minutes."},{"startTime":1688.394,"endTime":1689.514,"body":"Hey, this is what we're about to do."},{"startTime":1690.074,"endTime":1691.284,"body":"We're going to interface with this system."},{"startTime":1691.324,"endTime":1692.254,"body":"We're going to pull this data."},{"startTime":1692.344,"endTime":1693.004,"body":"We're going to do this."},{"startTime":1693.014,"endTime":1693.924,"body":"We're going to transform it this way."},{"startTime":1693.924,"endTime":1694.554,"body":"We're going to load it here."},{"startTime":1694.554,"endTime":1695.134,"body":"We're going to do this."},{"startTime":1696.074,"endTime":1696.684,"body":"That looks great."},{"startTime":1696.704,"endTime":1697.724,"body":"I mean, that's a great plan."},{"startTime":1697.884,"endTime":1699.284,"body":"Have you thought about this scenario?"},{"startTime":1699.504,"endTime":1700.254,"body":"No, we didn't."},{"startTime":1700.534,"endTime":1701.574,"body":"Here's how we might do that."},{"startTime":1701.614,"endTime":1704.214,"body":"Whiteboard out whiteboard"},{"startTime":1701.614,"endTime":1704.214,"body":"out, change some plans done."},{"startTime":1704.394,"endTime":1706.904,"body":"You mean like that's, that's an architect."},{"startTime":1706.904,"endTime":1708.474,"body":"The way I think of an architect is."},{"startTime":1708.819,"endTime":1710.029,"body":"I'm supporting the teams."},{"startTime":1710.569,"endTime":1712.599,"body":"I know way more about the"},{"startTime":1710.569,"endTime":1712.599,"body":"system than they know."},{"startTime":1713.649,"endTime":1716.019,"body":"I want to make sure that what they're"},{"startTime":1713.649,"endTime":1716.019,"body":"doing serves the whole organization."},{"startTime":1716.349,"endTime":1717.059,"body":"I'm trying to help."},{"startTime":1718.289,"endTime":1722.489,"body":"Sometimes teams are like,"},{"startTime":1718.289,"endTime":1722.489,"body":"scared of asking for help."},{"startTime":1722.969,"endTime":1724.459,"body":"We're having a planning, but I don't know."},{"startTime":1724.459,"endTime":1725.939,"body":"This guy's calendar is pretty full."},{"startTime":1725.979,"endTime":1727.159,"body":"Does he, does he want to show up?"},{"startTime":1727.469,"endTime":1729.329,"body":"Just, just tell him, hey,"},{"startTime":1727.469,"endTime":1729.329,"body":"I see you're in a meeting."},{"startTime":1729.649,"endTime":1734.139,"body":"If you get done early, show up to the"},{"startTime":1729.649,"endTime":1734.139,"body":"end of our session, just 10, 15 minutes"},{"startTime":1734.139,"endTime":1738.419,"body":"before the end of it, if you can,"},{"startTime":1734.139,"endTime":1738.419,"body":"if you can pop in, and just talk to"},{"startTime":1738.449,"endTime":1741.269,"body":"people to, to, to get you through this."},{"startTime":1741.279,"endTime":1743.059,"body":"And that that's, that's"},{"startTime":1741.279,"endTime":1743.059,"body":"the kind of stuff that like"},{"startTime":1743.929,"endTime":1745.999,"body":"more likely what will happen is"},{"startTime":1743.929,"endTime":1745.999,"body":"you will get through planning."},{"startTime":1746.309,"endTime":1750.399,"body":"You won't have all the right people to"},{"startTime":1746.309,"endTime":1750.399,"body":"make all the decisions that you need so"},{"startTime":1750.579,"endTime":1753.959,"body":"you'll make a tentative plan and you'll"},{"startTime":1750.579,"endTime":1753.959,"body":"go into the sprint review tentative"},{"startTime":1753.959,"endTime":1759.649,"body":"plan and then as the plan gets carried"},{"startTime":1753.959,"endTime":1759.649,"body":"out and your developers do work, you'll"},{"startTime":1759.649,"endTime":1762.999,"body":"change the plan because then those"},{"startTime":1759.649,"endTime":1762.999,"body":"people become available rather than"},{"startTime":1762.999,"endTime":1764.52,"body":"them coming to your sprint reviews."},{"startTime":1764.53,"endTime":1770.274,"body":"If the cross team, Members that"},{"startTime":1764.53,"endTime":1770.274,"body":"you require become too busy"},{"startTime":1770.274,"endTime":1772.954,"body":"or whatever then you have that"},{"startTime":1770.274,"endTime":1772.954,"body":"conversation separately Okay, our"},{"startTime":1772.954,"endTime":1774.794,"body":"team leads shared across eight teams."},{"startTime":1774.944,"endTime":1779.194,"body":"Is that is that really believable"},{"startTime":1774.944,"endTime":1779.194,"body":"that they can support eight teams?"},{"startTime":1779.254,"endTime":1780.604,"body":"Maybe we need another team lead."},{"startTime":1782.254,"endTime":1784.524,"body":"Yeah, I think timing"},{"startTime":1782.254,"endTime":1784.524,"body":"is is critical, right?"},{"startTime":1784.534,"endTime":1788.734,"body":"Like you said, just do it just prior"},{"startTime":1784.534,"endTime":1788.734,"body":"to you're about to start Working on"},{"startTime":1788.734,"endTime":1791.764,"body":"something and then be open to change."},{"startTime":1791.794,"endTime":1793.144,"body":"Don't say this is our plan."},{"startTime":1793.464,"endTime":1795.184,"body":"Oh gee, we got to change our plan now."},{"startTime":1795.674,"endTime":1798.554,"body":"Except that the plans will change."},{"startTime":1799.394,"endTime":1803.254,"body":"I'll say that for those of you in the"},{"startTime":1799.394,"endTime":1803.254,"body":"back of the room, the plans will change."},{"startTime":1803.304,"endTime":1805.694,"body":"You can get people in your meeting"},{"startTime":1803.304,"endTime":1805.694,"body":"and you can do stuff after the fact."},{"startTime":1805.694,"endTime":1808.324,"body":"The better way would be"},{"startTime":1805.694,"endTime":1808.324,"body":"to be proactive about it."},{"startTime":1808.634,"endTime":1810.724,"body":"And get the people in while"},{"startTime":1808.634,"endTime":1810.724,"body":"the decision is being made."},{"startTime":1810.724,"endTime":1814.794,"body":"Cause that's the, monetarily"},{"startTime":1810.724,"endTime":1814.794,"body":"speaking, that's the cheapest time."},{"startTime":1815.204,"endTime":1818.834,"body":"To make the change to your plans"},{"startTime":1815.204,"endTime":1818.834,"body":"before you've done any work for"},{"startTime":1818.834,"endTime":1820.154,"body":"me, but your plans are just ideas."},{"startTime":1820.154,"endTime":1820.944,"body":"They don't cost anything."},{"startTime":1820.944,"endTime":1822.847,"body":"There's zero, 0."},{"startTime":1823.502,"endTime":1826.992,"body":"But they, they turn into mucho"},{"startTime":1823.502,"endTime":1826.992,"body":"dollars pretty quickly if the timing"},{"startTime":1827.072,"endTime":1828.542,"body":"is all right here in all this."},{"startTime":1828.682,"endTime":1829.732,"body":"Mucho dinero."},{"startTime":1830.282,"endTime":1830.642,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":1831.722,"endTime":1833.902,"body":"That's, that's, that's goes"},{"startTime":1831.722,"endTime":1833.902,"body":"back to episode one right there."},{"startTime":1834.542,"endTime":1835.692,"body":"All right, let's move on."},{"startTime":1836.062,"endTime":1839.742,"body":"The team is not able to adapt to change."},{"startTime":1839.742,"endTime":1840.542,"body":"That's a symptom."},{"startTime":1840.542,"endTime":1842.232,"body":"The team not being able"},{"startTime":1840.542,"endTime":1842.232,"body":"to adapt to change."},{"startTime":1842.412,"endTime":1844.602,"body":"That's a weird symptom because"},{"startTime":1842.412,"endTime":1844.602,"body":"how would you know that"},{"startTime":1844.612,"endTime":1845.862,"body":"teams not adapting to change?"},{"startTime":1845.882,"endTime":1849.402,"body":"Well, you wouldn't know because,"},{"startTime":1845.882,"endTime":1849.402,"body":"often what happens is you've"},{"startTime":1849.402,"endTime":1854.072,"body":"got one or possibly more team"},{"startTime":1849.402,"endTime":1854.072,"body":"members saying we set out a plan."},{"startTime":1854.722,"endTime":1855.702,"body":"We're going to follow the plan."},{"startTime":1856.202,"endTime":1857.472,"body":"Or we need more requirements."},{"startTime":1858.282,"endTime":1858.622,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":1858.652,"endTime":1859.712,"body":"Oh yeah, exactly."},{"startTime":1859.752,"endTime":1861.062,"body":"We, we need more requirements."},{"startTime":1861.072,"endTime":1863.682,"body":"Things aren't clear to me, so I'm"},{"startTime":1861.072,"endTime":1863.682,"body":"not going to start working on this."},{"startTime":1863.972,"endTime":1864.252,"body":"Right."},{"startTime":1865.242,"endTime":1869.742,"body":"So that, that happens way, way"},{"startTime":1865.242,"endTime":1869.742,"body":"too, too often for my life, but"},{"startTime":1869.742,"endTime":1871.422,"body":"it does happen all the time."},{"startTime":1871.672,"endTime":1872.562,"body":"I'm sure people."},{"startTime":1873.087,"endTime":1875.647,"body":"Watching and listening have"},{"startTime":1873.087,"endTime":1875.647,"body":"come across this as well."},{"startTime":1876.587,"endTime":1878.347,"body":"The team is not able to adapt to change."},{"startTime":1878.887,"endTime":1881.147,"body":"Change is uncomfortable for them, right?"},{"startTime":1881.337,"endTime":1886.517,"body":"So immediately what happens is they put up"},{"startTime":1881.337,"endTime":1886.517,"body":"their guard and you get change resistance."},{"startTime":1886.607,"endTime":1890.387,"body":"Now when that happens, what is,"},{"startTime":1886.607,"endTime":1890.387,"body":"what's the outcome of this when"},{"startTime":1890.387,"endTime":1891.867,"body":"there's change resistance, right?"},{"startTime":1892.047,"endTime":1895.417,"body":"I think the team feeling stressed"},{"startTime":1892.047,"endTime":1895.417,"body":"and overwhelmed also fits in"},{"startTime":1895.417,"endTime":1898.367,"body":"the category of the team not"},{"startTime":1895.417,"endTime":1898.367,"body":"being able to adapt to change."},{"startTime":1898.367,"endTime":1899.307,"body":"I think it's the same thing."},{"startTime":1899.737,"endTime":1903.245,"body":"I put in the adapt to change category"},{"startTime":1899.737,"endTime":1903.245,"body":"we welcome changing requirements."},{"startTime":1903.295,"endTime":1909.275,"body":"I was on a team once that was working in"},{"startTime":1903.295,"endTime":1909.275,"body":"legacy code code that we know nobody on"},{"startTime":1909.275,"endTime":1911.345,"body":"the team had either developed or tested."},{"startTime":1911.572,"endTime":1915.319,"body":"We knew the business case in"},{"startTime":1911.572,"endTime":1915.319,"body":"which the application was used."},{"startTime":1915.604,"endTime":1918.674,"body":"But we didn't know what changing any"},{"startTime":1915.604,"endTime":1918.674,"body":"one section of the code would do."},{"startTime":1918.914,"endTime":1921.204,"body":"So we were real uncomfortable"},{"startTime":1918.914,"endTime":1921.204,"body":"working in that part of the code."},{"startTime":1922.304,"endTime":1927.184,"body":"So we had to be okay trying the"},{"startTime":1922.304,"endTime":1927.184,"body":"developer, trying to change things and"},{"startTime":1927.184,"endTime":1929.324,"body":"then us testing different scenarios."},{"startTime":1929.324,"endTime":1930.424,"body":"And if something blew up."},{"startTime":1931.664,"endTime":1935.874,"body":"We had to be okay with it, like it was,"},{"startTime":1931.664,"endTime":1935.874,"body":"there was, there was not like automation"},{"startTime":1935.874,"endTime":1938.514,"body":"and stuff like that around, there were,"},{"startTime":1935.874,"endTime":1938.514,"body":"there were at that company, there was"},{"startTime":1938.534,"endTime":1943.754,"body":"automation in, in testing, but it was"},{"startTime":1938.534,"endTime":1943.754,"body":"in different areas, newer pieces of"},{"startTime":1943.754,"endTime":1945.884,"body":"code, not the old, old legacy stuff."},{"startTime":1945.904,"endTime":1948.524,"body":"Probably because people didn't"},{"startTime":1945.904,"endTime":1948.524,"body":"have knowledge of the legacy"},{"startTime":1948.524,"endTime":1949.954,"body":"code to automate it, right?"},{"startTime":1950.024,"endTime":1950.834,"body":"No, yeah, not at all."},{"startTime":1950.864,"endTime":1952.264,"body":"And also the legacy code."},{"startTime":1953.629,"endTime":1954.339,"body":"What's very old."},{"startTime":1954.369,"endTime":1956.999,"body":"I mean, the tools that they had"},{"startTime":1954.369,"endTime":1956.999,"body":"available back when that code was"},{"startTime":1956.999,"endTime":1960.299,"body":"written were, were archaic at the time."},{"startTime":1960.309,"endTime":1963.279,"body":"Like there would have been, even if"},{"startTime":1960.309,"endTime":1963.279,"body":"we would have had that automation, it"},{"startTime":1963.279,"endTime":1965.989,"body":"would have been in some kind of language"},{"startTime":1963.279,"endTime":1965.989,"body":"or whatever, or tools or whatever that"},{"startTime":1965.989,"endTime":1968.319,"body":"were haven't been supported for years."},{"startTime":1968.329,"endTime":1969.133,"body":"Anyway know?"},{"startTime":1969.133,"endTime":1970.353,"body":"I think of the same thing today."},{"startTime":1970.353,"endTime":1974.313,"body":"I think of teams that, they say,"},{"startTime":1970.353,"endTime":1974.313,"body":"Oh, I need to sign off on all these"},{"startTime":1974.313,"endTime":1975.773,"body":"requirements and I can't change."},{"startTime":1976.368,"endTime":1979.188,"body":"You know, I, Oh, I don't want to"},{"startTime":1976.368,"endTime":1979.188,"body":"change any requirements once we get"},{"startTime":1979.188,"endTime":1982.608,"body":"a sign off because something breaks"},{"startTime":1979.188,"endTime":1982.608,"body":"it, we're going to be on the hook"},{"startTime":1982.608,"endTime":1984.588,"body":"to spend support hours to fix it."},{"startTime":1984.618,"endTime":1985.648,"body":"That's what I hear."},{"startTime":1985.658,"endTime":1985.938,"body":"You know what I mean?"},{"startTime":1985.938,"endTime":1990.078,"body":"I hear that, especially when I was on"},{"startTime":1985.938,"endTime":1990.078,"body":"contract with, with the big contractors"},{"startTime":1990.118,"endTime":1993.298,"body":"and like, I don't mind naming them because"},{"startTime":1990.118,"endTime":1993.298,"body":"they're so big that nobody on like, like"},{"startTime":1993.318,"endTime":1997.568,"body":"IBM and those guys, like contracting teams"},{"startTime":1993.318,"endTime":1997.568,"body":"from Deloitte and IBM and stuff like that."},{"startTime":1997.988,"endTime":2001.418,"body":"That's what they would say is like, Hey,"},{"startTime":1997.988,"endTime":2001.418,"body":"yes, there is a gap in the requirements"},{"startTime":2001.418,"endTime":2003.678,"body":"around what you've identified and what"},{"startTime":2001.418,"endTime":2003.678,"body":"you've kind of talked through with the"},{"startTime":2003.678,"endTime":2005.188,"body":"businesses, but we're not going to fix it."},{"startTime":2005.578,"endTime":2008.778,"body":"Because if we fix it, and we"},{"startTime":2005.578,"endTime":2008.778,"body":"generate other bugs, now we're"},{"startTime":2008.778,"endTime":2009.788,"body":"on the hook to fix those."},{"startTime":2009.838,"endTime":2012.198,"body":"And it's gonna come out of our,"},{"startTime":2009.838,"endTime":2012.198,"body":"whatever, hypercare budget, or"},{"startTime":2012.198,"endTime":2013.478,"body":"whatever, some kind of budget, right?"},{"startTime":2013.908,"endTime":2015.958,"body":"That's already been"},{"startTime":2013.908,"endTime":2015.958,"body":"paid for ahead of time."},{"startTime":2016.418,"endTime":2017.518,"body":"And they're just not gonna do it."},{"startTime":2017.758,"endTime":2021.613,"body":"So basically, they're, they're"},{"startTime":2017.758,"endTime":2021.613,"body":"averse to adapting the change."},{"startTime":2021.713,"endTime":2022.713,"body":"Understandably, right?"},{"startTime":2022.763,"endTime":2025.613,"body":"They're feeling stressed"},{"startTime":2022.763,"endTime":2025.613,"body":"and or overwhelmed."},{"startTime":2025.893,"endTime":2032.163,"body":"The other way I've seen this happen is"},{"startTime":2025.893,"endTime":2032.163,"body":"the team are initially Okay with change"},{"startTime":2032.193,"endTime":2037.203,"body":"right rapid rapid change you but they take"},{"startTime":2032.193,"endTime":2037.203,"body":"pride in what they're doing So they're"},{"startTime":2037.203,"endTime":2041.223,"body":"working on something and then they told"},{"startTime":2037.203,"endTime":2041.223,"body":"to drop that work on something else drop"},{"startTime":2041.223,"endTime":2045.293,"body":"that work on something else They never"},{"startTime":2041.223,"endTime":2045.293,"body":"get to see things to a completion stage,"},{"startTime":2045.683,"endTime":2047.213,"body":"and that gets frustrating for them."},{"startTime":2047.323,"endTime":2048.313,"body":"I've seen that."},{"startTime":2048.343,"endTime":2051.213,"body":"And so that could actually take that"},{"startTime":2048.343,"endTime":2051.213,"body":"toll as well on their psyche, right?"},{"startTime":2051.253,"endTime":2051.883,"body":"As a team."},{"startTime":2051.893,"endTime":2053.883,"body":"So, yeah, they could be feeling stressed."},{"startTime":2054.883,"endTime":2057.193,"body":"Again, I want to go back to"},{"startTime":2054.883,"endTime":2057.193,"body":"the facilitator because they"},{"startTime":2057.193,"endTime":2058.313,"body":"can help immensely here."},{"startTime":2058.628,"endTime":2064.508,"body":"As a catalyst to explain to the"},{"startTime":2058.628,"endTime":2064.508,"body":"team, why change is happening."},{"startTime":2065.468,"endTime":2068.808,"body":"In some cases, not all, in"},{"startTime":2065.468,"endTime":2068.808,"body":"some cases, change could be"},{"startTime":2068.808,"endTime":2070.038,"body":"happening for the wrong reasons."},{"startTime":2070.358,"endTime":2075.858,"body":"And a skilled facilitator could try and"},{"startTime":2070.358,"endTime":2075.858,"body":"minimize that if not eliminate that."},{"startTime":2076.218,"endTime":2084.398,"body":"So all of these things add up to,"},{"startTime":2076.218,"endTime":2084.398,"body":"making the team more open to change."},{"startTime":2084.458,"endTime":2090.058,"body":"The only thing we haven't talked about is"},{"startTime":2084.458,"endTime":2090.058,"body":"a team that is constantly stuck in forming"},{"startTime":2090.268,"endTime":2095.538,"body":"or a team that hasn't figured out a way to"},{"startTime":2090.268,"endTime":2095.538,"body":"work through, conflict in a healthy way."},{"startTime":2096.358,"endTime":2098.098,"body":"Basically a team that's"},{"startTime":2096.358,"endTime":2098.098,"body":"always in conflict."},{"startTime":2098.151,"endTime":2101.191,"body":"I mean, we probably should"},{"startTime":2098.151,"endTime":2101.191,"body":"have hit this real early in the"},{"startTime":2101.191,"endTime":2102.351,"body":"podcast because this is like a..."},{"startTime":2102.671,"endTime":2107.421,"body":"Low hanging fruit type of conversation"},{"startTime":2102.671,"endTime":2107.421,"body":"with self organization like obviously"},{"startTime":2107.421,"endTime":2110.891,"body":"you're not like on the Maslow pyramid when"},{"startTime":2107.421,"endTime":2110.891,"body":"you're just trying to like find somewhere"},{"startTime":2110.891,"endTime":2115.016,"body":"to Sleep without the rain raining down"},{"startTime":2110.891,"endTime":2115.016,"body":"your head like you're not going to worry"},{"startTime":2115.016,"endTime":2117.686,"body":"about like, am I my ideal person today?"},{"startTime":2117.906,"endTime":2119.046,"body":"Like obviously that's not going to happen."},{"startTime":2119.046,"endTime":2123.806,"body":"So if the team is constantly fighting"},{"startTime":2119.046,"endTime":2123.806,"body":"with one another, you're not going to go."},{"startTime":2123.836,"endTime":2127.946,"body":"And like, well, how can we better"},{"startTime":2123.836,"endTime":2127.946,"body":"collaborate and coordinate between"},{"startTime":2127.986,"endTime":2129.206,"body":"other teams in the organization?"},{"startTime":2129.236,"endTime":2131.056,"body":"Obviously you're not going to"},{"startTime":2129.236,"endTime":2131.056,"body":"do that because everyone is."},{"startTime":2131.526,"endTime":2134.426,"body":"Struggling not not to be"},{"startTime":2131.526,"endTime":2134.426,"body":"fighting in constant conflict"},{"startTime":2134.836,"endTime":2136.716,"body":"We've done a podcast on"},{"startTime":2134.836,"endTime":2136.716,"body":"psychological safety."},{"startTime":2136.716,"endTime":2138.446,"body":"I'm sure we have more than one."},{"startTime":2138.446,"endTime":2139.046,"body":"I'm sure"},{"startTime":2139.606,"endTime":2143.826,"body":"You, you need to start"},{"startTime":2139.606,"endTime":2143.826,"body":"by stressing respect."},{"startTime":2143.886,"endTime":2145.946,"body":"This is a long and winding road."},{"startTime":2146.026,"endTime":2146.446,"body":"Uh..."},{"startTime":2146.476,"endTime":2146.616,"body":"Like..."},{"startTime":2147.521,"endTime":2148.821,"body":"Another song now stuck in my head."},{"startTime":2148.831,"endTime":2149.281,"body":"That's right."},{"startTime":2149.281,"endTime":2150.731,"body":"Paul McCartney would be proud."},{"startTime":2151.731,"endTime":2154.871,"body":"if you don't have this"},{"startTime":2151.731,"endTime":2154.871,"body":"culturally, I'm worried about you."},{"startTime":2154.931,"endTime":2157.031,"body":"I mean, there's some things you"},{"startTime":2154.931,"endTime":2157.031,"body":"can do to try to start this, but"},{"startTime":2157.041,"endTime":2160.511,"body":"I would hope that like the, it's"},{"startTime":2157.041,"endTime":2160.511,"body":"a team thing, not a culture thing."},{"startTime":2161.231,"endTime":2161.591,"body":"You know what I mean?"},{"startTime":2161.591,"endTime":2163.291,"body":"Like a new team in forming mode."},{"startTime":2163.531,"endTime":2167.171,"body":"Have to figure out how to evolve"},{"startTime":2163.531,"endTime":2167.171,"body":"and, and, and earn and learn"},{"startTime":2167.171,"endTime":2168.341,"body":"this between team members."},{"startTime":2168.371,"endTime":2172.651,"body":"I'm hoping it's just your new"},{"startTime":2168.371,"endTime":2172.651,"body":"team and not a culture problem."},{"startTime":2173.061,"endTime":2175.581,"body":"If it's a culture problem, that's way"},{"startTime":2173.061,"endTime":2175.581,"body":"outside the scope of this podcast."},{"startTime":2175.661,"endTime":2177.571,"body":"And keep that resume updated."},{"startTime":2177.571,"endTime":2182.071,"body":"If it's a culture problem, you will not,"},{"startTime":2177.571,"endTime":2182.071,"body":"you'll be basically, you'll be pushing"},{"startTime":2182.071,"endTime":2183.471,"body":"water up a hill with your bare hands."},{"startTime":2183.914,"endTime":2184.684,"body":"So yeah, I agree."},{"startTime":2185.204,"endTime":2189.294,"body":"Whatever the reason might be, make"},{"startTime":2185.204,"endTime":2189.294,"body":"sure that this problem doesn't persist"},{"startTime":2189.294,"endTime":2190.714,"body":"over a long period of time, right?"},{"startTime":2190.724,"endTime":2192.944,"body":"To the extent you can influence that."},{"startTime":2193.734,"endTime":2197.484,"body":"Because if it does, you're not"},{"startTime":2193.734,"endTime":2197.484,"body":"really moving along that evolutionary"},{"startTime":2197.484,"endTime":2198.914,"body":"path that we talked about earlier."},{"startTime":2199.024,"endTime":2201.904,"body":"If you focus on the work rather"},{"startTime":2199.024,"endTime":2201.904,"body":"than on the people doing the work."},{"startTime":2202.549,"endTime":2207.149,"body":"It does help with this and there's"},{"startTime":2202.549,"endTime":2207.149,"body":"a bunch of stuff you can do tiny"},{"startTime":2207.149,"endTime":2209.339,"body":"little things that help with this."},{"startTime":2209.349,"endTime":2213.999,"body":"And if you can do a bunch of things to"},{"startTime":2209.349,"endTime":2213.999,"body":"help with this, maybe, maybe you can"},{"startTime":2213.999,"endTime":2218.129,"body":"move to the norming phase and move out"},{"startTime":2213.999,"endTime":2218.129,"body":"of the storming phase and get quickly"},{"startTime":2218.129,"endTime":2219.399,"body":"get out of this constant conflict."},{"startTime":2219.719,"endTime":2223.439,"body":"Although what you said about like have"},{"startTime":2219.719,"endTime":2223.439,"body":"a moderator or a facilitator or somebody"},{"startTime":2223.439,"endTime":2228.049,"body":"with good facilitation skills and"},{"startTime":2223.439,"endTime":2228.049,"body":"someone with good EQ, that goes a very"},{"startTime":2228.049,"endTime":2231.793,"body":"long way you're not getting out of this"},{"startTime":2228.049,"endTime":2231.793,"body":"category by yourself, just, clocking in"},{"startTime":2231.793,"endTime":2233.153,"body":"and showing up at the office every day."},{"startTime":2233.173,"endTime":2234.933,"body":"Like that's not enough to get us right."},{"startTime":2234.933,"endTime":2236.503,"body":"This will not go away by itself."},{"startTime":2236.653,"endTime":2237.383,"body":"Yeah, absolutely."},{"startTime":2237.383,"endTime":2243.063,"body":"There needs to be definitely overt effort,"},{"startTime":2237.383,"endTime":2243.063,"body":"in order to make this better for you or"},{"startTime":2243.063,"endTime":2249.238,"body":"covert effort, whatever works for you,"},{"startTime":2243.063,"endTime":2249.238,"body":"but yeah, definitely bring the work to"},{"startTime":2249.238,"endTime":2251.398,"body":"the people, take the people to the work."},{"startTime":2252.448,"endTime":2253.418,"body":"Did I get that backwards?"},{"startTime":2253.428,"endTime":2253.918,"body":"Who knows?"},{"startTime":2253.978,"endTime":2256.688,"body":"I was going to go all French"},{"startTime":2253.978,"endTime":2256.688,"body":"revolution, but I'll, I'll, I'll wait."},{"startTime":2258.128,"endTime":2258.388,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":2258.388,"endTime":2262.878,"body":"If somebody is saying, Fred, you did"},{"startTime":2258.388,"endTime":2262.878,"body":"this, Bob, you did this, Mary, you've"},{"startTime":2262.878,"endTime":2264.268,"body":"only done this, that kind of thing."},{"startTime":2264.638,"endTime":2266.778,"body":"You don't have a team of eight people."},{"startTime":2266.778,"endTime":2269.248,"body":"Let's say you have eight"},{"startTime":2266.778,"endTime":2269.248,"body":"teams of one person."},{"startTime":2269.248,"endTime":2269.418,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":2269.708,"endTime":2270.308,"body":"That's not right."},{"startTime":2270.308,"endTime":2271.638,"body":"And that's definitely not good."},{"startTime":2271.688,"endTime":2271.998,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":2272.144,"endTime":2272.534,"body":"Well, that's it."},{"startTime":2272.554,"endTime":2273.224,"body":"That's our list."},{"startTime":2273.297,"endTime":2278.297,"body":"Hopefully this brainstorming session"},{"startTime":2273.297,"endTime":2278.297,"body":"about self organization has been helpful."},{"startTime":2278.837,"endTime":2281.847,"body":"And if it hasn't, keep"},{"startTime":2278.837,"endTime":2281.847,"body":"that resume updated."},{"startTime":2281.857,"endTime":2286.607,"body":"No, I don't, I don't, if it hasn't,"},{"startTime":2281.857,"endTime":2286.607,"body":"we'll give you your money back."},{"startTime":2287.127,"endTime":2289.917,"body":"Well also if it hasn't like"},{"startTime":2287.127,"endTime":2289.917,"body":"arguingagile.Com, like we"},{"startTime":2289.917,"endTime":2291.307,"body":"got a form on the site."},{"startTime":2291.417,"endTime":2291.807,"body":"Yes."},{"startTime":2291.847,"endTime":2295.197,"body":"Give us some feedback and,"},{"startTime":2291.847,"endTime":2295.197,"body":"like, and subscribe down below."},{"startTime":2295.237,"endTime":2295.737,"body":"That's right."},{"startTime":2295.963,"endTime":2297.563,"body":"Be kind to one another, everybody."}]}