{"version":"1.0.0","segments":[{"startTime":0.049,"endTime":2.959,"body":"If you look in the scrum guide, it"},{"startTime":0.049,"endTime":2.959,"body":"has this weird line about that the"},{"startTime":2.959,"endTime":6.789,"body":"scrum master serves the team by"},{"startTime":2.959,"endTime":6.789,"body":"causing the removal of impediments"},{"startTime":6.789,"endTime":8.259,"body":"to the scrum teams progress."},{"startTime":8.389,"endTime":12.999,"body":"And then it says at the daily scrum,"},{"startTime":8.389,"endTime":12.999,"body":"the team identifies impediments."},{"startTime":12.999,"endTime":15.259,"body":"This is the team is constantly"},{"startTime":12.999,"endTime":15.259,"body":"scanning for impediments."},{"startTime":15.724,"endTime":20.014,"body":"And the scrum master, whomever"},{"startTime":15.724,"endTime":20.014,"body":"that may be on the team, is,"},{"startTime":20.624,"endTime":22.914,"body":"constantly seeking to remove them."},{"startTime":23.249,"endTime":27.975,"body":"we've not had a podcast specifically on"},{"startTime":23.249,"endTime":27.975,"body":"impediments and the removal of impediments"},{"startTime":28.021,"endTime":29.981,"body":"or blockers as some people call them."},{"startTime":30.111,"endTime":32.321,"body":"That's what the podcast is"},{"startTime":30.111,"endTime":32.321,"body":"going to be about today."},{"startTime":32.621,"endTime":32.951,"body":"Awesome."},{"startTime":32.951,"endTime":36.271,"body":"Yeah, we did actually touch on impairments"},{"startTime":32.951,"endTime":36.271,"body":"on a previous podcast, but this one's"},{"startTime":36.271,"endTime":38.401,"body":"dedicated to impediments and blockers."},{"startTime":38.551,"endTime":41.141,"body":"So that's two different words, right?"},{"startTime":41.181,"endTime":44.421,"body":"Let's talk about, what are"},{"startTime":41.181,"endTime":44.421,"body":"blockers, what are impediments,"},{"startTime":44.421,"endTime":46.141,"body":"what do people mean by those?"},{"startTime":46.511,"endTime":49.451,"body":"what I've seen out in the"},{"startTime":46.511,"endTime":49.451,"body":"field is people use them"},{"startTime":49.451,"endTime":51.581,"body":"interchangeably, more often than not."},{"startTime":52.241,"endTime":53.951,"body":"And it's not quite right."},{"startTime":54.251,"endTime":56.161,"body":"You have blockers."},{"startTime":56.201,"endTime":58.781,"body":"Think about something"},{"startTime":56.201,"endTime":58.781,"body":"blocking your progress."},{"startTime":58.857,"endTime":61.537,"body":"It's a roadblock, where you're not"},{"startTime":58.857,"endTime":61.537,"body":"going to get past the roadblock"},{"startTime":61.627,"endTime":63.987,"body":"because the cops have it blocked off."},{"startTime":64.497,"endTime":68.597,"body":"so you have to find another way to get"},{"startTime":64.497,"endTime":68.597,"body":"out of there, because you're not going to"},{"startTime":68.597,"endTime":70.317,"body":"get away after having robbed that bank."},{"startTime":70.637,"endTime":76.447,"body":"So, blocker is a solid no"},{"startTime":70.637,"endTime":76.447,"body":"progress line, of, of..."},{"startTime":77.362,"endTime":78.942,"body":"Progress, but lack of progress, right?"},{"startTime":78.952,"endTime":80.152,"body":"You just cannot proceed."},{"startTime":80.172,"endTime":81.942,"body":"Basically, that's a solid blocker."},{"startTime":82.242,"endTime":86.342,"body":"An impediment, on the other hand,"},{"startTime":82.242,"endTime":86.342,"body":"at least to me, it's, yeah, it's a"},{"startTime":86.342,"endTime":88.702,"body":"road bump, but we can get around it."},{"startTime":89.112,"endTime":92.152,"body":"It might be a little uncomfortable,"},{"startTime":89.112,"endTime":92.152,"body":"there might be a way to get around it."},{"startTime":92.672,"endTime":98.152,"body":"Put your heads together, see how"},{"startTime":92.672,"endTime":98.152,"body":"you can, alleviate the impediment."},{"startTime":98.712,"endTime":102.472,"body":"So an impediment in that"},{"startTime":98.712,"endTime":102.472,"body":"sense, I guess is a..."},{"startTime":102.767,"endTime":103.957,"body":"Type of blocker."},{"startTime":104.257,"endTime":107.147,"body":"Then some people use another"},{"startTime":104.257,"endTime":107.147,"body":"word, which kind of muddies"},{"startTime":107.177,"endTime":109.057,"body":"the waters even more issues."},{"startTime":109.267,"endTime":112.897,"body":"I guess the point of going here first"},{"startTime":109.267,"endTime":112.897,"body":"with definitions is that the scrum"},{"startTime":112.927,"endTime":114.217,"body":"guide does not use the word blocker."},{"startTime":114.217,"endTime":116.077,"body":"The scrum guide uses the word impediment."},{"startTime":116.947,"endTime":122.417,"body":"Yeah, Scrum Guide isn't really all"},{"startTime":116.947,"endTime":122.417,"body":"that, detailed around, impediments,"},{"startTime":122.417,"endTime":124.067,"body":"blockers, issues, whatever you have."},{"startTime":124.997,"endTime":128.557,"body":"I, I just, I've just seen this out"},{"startTime":124.997,"endTime":128.557,"body":"in the field interchangeably used."},{"startTime":128.857,"endTime":133.417,"body":"In case you're wondering, should we put"},{"startTime":128.857,"endTime":133.417,"body":"something up, up for display just because"},{"startTime":133.417,"endTime":134.897,"body":"we think it's going to happen next week?"},{"startTime":135.547,"endTime":137.537,"body":"So people can say, well,"},{"startTime":135.547,"endTime":137.537,"body":"we have an impediment."},{"startTime":137.557,"endTime":139.337,"body":"Next week, I'm not going"},{"startTime":137.557,"endTime":139.337,"body":"to be able to do this."},{"startTime":139.917,"endTime":142.917,"body":"That's not a real impediment"},{"startTime":139.917,"endTime":142.917,"body":"yet, but we think it's coming."},{"startTime":142.917,"endTime":144.747,"body":"It's like seeing dark"},{"startTime":142.917,"endTime":144.747,"body":"clouds on the horizon."},{"startTime":145.047,"endTime":147.177,"body":"They may come and rain"},{"startTime":145.047,"endTime":147.177,"body":"on top of your head."},{"startTime":147.207,"endTime":147.807,"body":"They may not."},{"startTime":147.927,"endTime":148.257,"body":"Right?"},{"startTime":148.262,"endTime":152.697,"body":"So, these are risks typically,"},{"startTime":148.262,"endTime":152.697,"body":"and, and risks may materialize"},{"startTime":152.697,"endTime":153.627,"body":"or not materialize, right?"},{"startTime":154.007,"endTime":157.247,"body":"But let's talk about those two,"},{"startTime":154.007,"endTime":157.247,"body":"those two categories broadly."},{"startTime":157.252,"endTime":159.887,"body":"The, impediments and blockers."},{"startTime":160.187,"endTime":163.617,"body":"If you have a blocker,"},{"startTime":160.187,"endTime":163.617,"body":"You cannot proceed, right?"},{"startTime":163.697,"endTime":165.667,"body":"If you have an impediment,"},{"startTime":163.697,"endTime":165.667,"body":"you might be able to proceed."},{"startTime":165.717,"endTime":167.407,"body":"Talk to your teammates, talk to others."},{"startTime":167.577,"endTime":168.607,"body":"Maybe you can proceed."},{"startTime":168.607,"endTime":169.287,"body":"Maybe you can't."},{"startTime":169.657,"endTime":170.737,"body":"Then it becomes a blocker."},{"startTime":171.382,"endTime":174.252,"body":"I end up writing stories to"},{"startTime":171.382,"endTime":174.252,"body":"work around an impediment."},{"startTime":174.602,"endTime":179.572,"body":"Now, what we might do is we might"},{"startTime":174.602,"endTime":179.572,"body":"end up taking the suboptimal route"},{"startTime":179.652,"endTime":181.222,"body":"to code something because of that."},{"startTime":181.368,"endTime":182.328,"body":"Yeah, that's a good point."},{"startTime":182.338,"endTime":185.308,"body":"So if you do that, at least"},{"startTime":182.338,"endTime":185.308,"body":"you'll have something that's..."},{"startTime":185.408,"endTime":186.338,"body":"Functional, right?"},{"startTime":186.338,"endTime":188.968,"body":"It may not be glitzy, polished,"},{"startTime":186.338,"endTime":188.968,"body":"et cetera, but it works."},{"startTime":189.328,"endTime":192.668,"body":"And granted, there is a risk,"},{"startTime":189.328,"endTime":192.668,"body":"which you have to obviously"},{"startTime":192.668,"endTime":194.978,"body":"walk that, walk that line."},{"startTime":195.258,"endTime":198.888,"body":"Are you creating so much tech"},{"startTime":195.258,"endTime":198.888,"body":"debt that it's going to be painful"},{"startTime":198.888,"endTime":200.688,"body":"later on to remediate that?"},{"startTime":201.018,"endTime":205.338,"body":"Or is it simply a question of"},{"startTime":201.018,"endTime":205.338,"body":"bringing that back in at some point?"},{"startTime":205.798,"endTime":209.448,"body":"Because there's no, hopefully your,"},{"startTime":205.798,"endTime":209.448,"body":"your tech debt is not at a level where."},{"startTime":209.768,"endTime":213.398,"body":"You have to bring it in to the"},{"startTime":209.768,"endTime":213.398,"body":"next sprint or the sprint after."},{"startTime":213.538,"endTime":215.298,"body":"You can keep it on the backlog."},{"startTime":215.688,"endTime":220.068,"body":"And if nobody complains about it in a few"},{"startTime":215.688,"endTime":220.068,"body":"weeks, months, whatever, then who cares?"},{"startTime":220.268,"endTime":221.868,"body":"We might not be able to"},{"startTime":220.268,"endTime":221.868,"body":"get around a blocker."},{"startTime":222.328,"endTime":224.638,"body":"And then of course there are"},{"startTime":222.328,"endTime":224.638,"body":"probably people screaming over"},{"startTime":224.638,"endTime":226.908,"body":"the internet right now about,"},{"startTime":224.638,"endTime":226.908,"body":"can you scream over the internet?"},{"startTime":227.168,"endTime":229.788,"body":"There's probably people screaming"},{"startTime":227.168,"endTime":229.788,"body":"into the, into the void of their own"},{"startTime":229.788,"endTime":232.778,"body":"computer, about like, it doesn't matter."},{"startTime":232.778,"endTime":235.388,"body":"An impediment is an impediment"},{"startTime":232.778,"endTime":235.388,"body":"and it doesn't, there's no reason"},{"startTime":235.388,"endTime":236.868,"body":"to distinguish between the two."},{"startTime":237.168,"endTime":239.248,"body":"Like where I'm going though is."},{"startTime":240.138,"endTime":244.148,"body":"If you can get around it and cause"},{"startTime":240.138,"endTime":244.148,"body":"some technical debt that you know"},{"startTime":244.148,"endTime":248.548,"body":"about, that you understand and you"},{"startTime":244.148,"endTime":248.548,"body":"plan to deal with later, I don't know,"},{"startTime":248.568,"endTime":250.308,"body":"that's kind of okay in my opinion."},{"startTime":250.668,"endTime":251.948,"body":"Yeah, it's acceptable."},{"startTime":251.948,"endTime":252.708,"body":"It's okay."},{"startTime":253.178,"endTime":253.828,"body":"I agree."},{"startTime":254.128,"endTime":257.338,"body":"So two categories, blockers and"},{"startTime":254.128,"endTime":257.338,"body":"impediments, that's important for"},{"startTime":257.338,"endTime":261.028,"body":"the future, like for the rest of this"},{"startTime":257.338,"endTime":261.028,"body":"podcast, understanding that there are"},{"startTime":261.028,"endTime":263.958,"body":"two different types of impediments,"},{"startTime":261.028,"endTime":263.958,"body":"a blocker and an impediment."},{"startTime":264.378,"endTime":264.628,"body":"Right."},{"startTime":264.928,"endTime":266.848,"body":"I wish I could, I wish"},{"startTime":264.928,"endTime":266.848,"body":"I had a different name."},{"startTime":267.178,"endTime":267.548,"body":"Issues."},{"startTime":267.618,"endTime":268.838,"body":"No, I'm not going to use the word issues."},{"startTime":269.538,"endTime":270.128,"body":"Two items."},{"startTime":270.168,"endTime":270.388,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":271.208,"endTime":273.238,"body":"There are two different methods here."},{"startTime":273.248,"endTime":274.408,"body":"A blocker and an impediment."},{"startTime":274.508,"endTime":274.828,"body":"Okay."},{"startTime":275.078,"endTime":278.668,"body":"The first thing that everybody probably"},{"startTime":275.078,"endTime":278.668,"body":"agrees on, the whole world, like we're"},{"startTime":278.668,"endTime":279.938,"body":"going to buy the world a Coke right now."},{"startTime":279.938,"endTime":281.728,"body":"Like I'm rolling the"},{"startTime":279.938,"endTime":281.728,"body":"clocks back to the 70's."},{"startTime":282.098,"endTime":287.988,"body":"Like we all agree that, Dependencies"},{"startTime":282.098,"endTime":287.988,"body":"in the work is the first blocker slash"},{"startTime":288.028,"endTime":294.848,"body":"impediment that you will encounter and"},{"startTime":288.028,"endTime":294.848,"body":"potentially deal with is dependencies"},{"startTime":295.258,"endTime":299.278,"body":"like in there and there's whole like"},{"startTime":295.258,"endTime":299.278,"body":"I've worked on programs where they,"},{"startTime":299.288,"endTime":303.678,"body":"they, they want, all new software"},{"startTime":299.288,"endTime":303.678,"body":"or they haven't, they hire on a"},{"startTime":303.678,"endTime":310.013,"body":"whole, whole person just to track"},{"startTime":303.678,"endTime":310.013,"body":"dependencies, and of course, the better"},{"startTime":310.133,"endTime":314.243,"body":"way would be to, to remove, not accept."},{"startTime":314.788,"endTime":318.118,"body":"The dependencies in the work and then"},{"startTime":314.788,"endTime":318.118,"body":"you don't need that extra bureaucracy,"},{"startTime":318.408,"endTime":322.028,"body":"but I mean, I'm sure there's some"},{"startTime":318.408,"endTime":322.028,"body":"people out there that work in FinTech"},{"startTime":322.038,"endTime":325.938,"body":"or banking or you know work with"},{"startTime":322.038,"endTime":325.938,"body":"traditional PMOs that are like Brian."},{"startTime":325.948,"endTime":329.928,"body":"That's just not realistic in the"},{"startTime":325.948,"endTime":329.928,"body":"real world Like I don't know."},{"startTime":329.938,"endTime":331.128,"body":"I don't know what they would say."},{"startTime":331.348,"endTime":334.528,"body":"They would they would probably twist"},{"startTime":331.348,"endTime":334.528,"body":"their mustache Which would be weird if"},{"startTime":334.528,"endTime":337.918,"body":"they were a woman they'd probably twist"},{"startTime":334.528,"endTime":337.918,"body":"their mustache and and and tell me that I"},{"startTime":337.948,"endTime":340.613,"body":"don't live in the real world Well, yeah."},{"startTime":340.643,"endTime":341.363,"body":"First of all, yeah."},{"startTime":341.513,"endTime":344.633,"body":"So all these people that wait,"},{"startTime":341.513,"endTime":344.633,"body":"yeah, it's a twisting mustache."},{"startTime":344.633,"endTime":344.993,"body":"What we Yeah."},{"startTime":345.293,"endTime":347.093,"body":"Twisting, twisting mustaches by women."},{"startTime":347.273,"endTime":353.933,"body":"So look, I think weird, I, I, I think"},{"startTime":347.273,"endTime":353.933,"body":"this whole idea of, dependencies"},{"startTime":353.933,"endTime":359.763,"body":"being a blocker or an impediment to"},{"startTime":353.933,"endTime":359.763,"body":"me, I is, is capitulation really?"},{"startTime":359.793,"endTime":362.043,"body":"you, you you have a dependency."},{"startTime":362.043,"endTime":362.793,"body":"What are you gonna do?"},{"startTime":362.823,"endTime":362.973,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":363.243,"endTime":363.603,"body":"Right."},{"startTime":363.603,"endTime":368.903,"body":"Well, What not to do is to put that"},{"startTime":363.603,"endTime":368.903,"body":"on the wall somewhere It's the wall"},{"startTime":368.903,"endTime":372.023,"body":"behind me somewhere back there and"},{"startTime":368.903,"endTime":372.023,"body":"put it on the wall and go look we have"},{"startTime":372.023,"endTime":375.893,"body":"dependencies and certain frameworks"},{"startTime":372.023,"endTime":375.893,"body":"actually encourage This unfortunately,"},{"startTime":375.923,"endTime":380.143,"body":"but you know, and then everyone stares"},{"startTime":375.923,"endTime":380.143,"body":"at it and says yeah, we have dependencies"},{"startTime":380.823,"endTime":384.763,"body":"Wouldn't it be a better use of the"},{"startTime":380.823,"endTime":384.763,"body":"time to talk about those and say how"},{"startTime":384.763,"endTime":386.593,"body":"can we get around those to begin with?"},{"startTime":386.633,"endTime":388.898,"body":"Before you bring the work to the team."},{"startTime":389.408,"endTime":391.978,"body":"Before the team commits, I mean,"},{"startTime":389.408,"endTime":391.978,"body":"right, to the work at hand."},{"startTime":391.988,"endTime":392.818,"body":"Let's talk about it."},{"startTime":393.218,"endTime":394.428,"body":"Shuffle some work around."},{"startTime":394.458,"endTime":398.513,"body":"And if it truly cannot be mitigated"},{"startTime":394.458,"endTime":398.513,"body":"at that point, Then don't work on it."},{"startTime":399.003,"endTime":403.433,"body":"In the Scrum at Scale model, is that the"},{"startTime":399.003,"endTime":403.433,"body":"executive action team, that's, that's the"},{"startTime":403.433,"endTime":405.683,"body":"Scrum wheel of the Scrum at Scale, right?"},{"startTime":405.903,"endTime":409.613,"body":"Is, is that they're like,"},{"startTime":405.903,"endTime":409.613,"body":"bringing dependencies."},{"startTime":409.778,"endTime":414.508,"body":"to them and having them help solve the"},{"startTime":409.778,"endTime":414.508,"body":"dependencies before they impact the teams."},{"startTime":414.518,"endTime":415.418,"body":"Is that part of that?"},{"startTime":415.418,"endTime":417.368,"body":"The action team is the escalation point."},{"startTime":417.368,"endTime":418.428,"body":"Yeah, absolutely."},{"startTime":418.728,"endTime":419.818,"body":"It's the scrum of scrums."},{"startTime":419.818,"endTime":422.978,"body":"They should be the ones discussing"},{"startTime":419.818,"endTime":422.978,"body":"these dependencies because the"},{"startTime":422.978,"endTime":424.528,"body":"dependencies aren't with anybody else."},{"startTime":424.558,"endTime":425.478,"body":"They're with one another."},{"startTime":425.958,"endTime":429.968,"body":"So talk about them and say, I"},{"startTime":425.958,"endTime":429.968,"body":"have this need that requires"},{"startTime":429.968,"endTime":432.578,"body":"you to deliver something before"},{"startTime":429.968,"endTime":432.578,"body":"I can deliver something else."},{"startTime":433.028,"endTime":435.118,"body":"So when are you delivering that?"},{"startTime":435.188,"endTime":436.538,"body":"Oh, well, it's not till next month."},{"startTime":436.618,"endTime":438.118,"body":"Okay, well, that's a given."},{"startTime":438.218,"endTime":440.328,"body":"Now you can have a negotiation, right?"},{"startTime":440.328,"endTime":443.308,"body":"We have to have our stuff by"},{"startTime":440.328,"endTime":443.308,"body":"next month, which means we need"},{"startTime":443.308,"endTime":444.588,"body":"you to hurry up if you can."},{"startTime":444.948,"endTime":445.528,"body":"We can't."},{"startTime":445.588,"endTime":447.528,"body":"Okay, well, what does"},{"startTime":445.588,"endTime":447.528,"body":"that mean for us now?"},{"startTime":447.628,"endTime":450.018,"body":"Is there something else, a"},{"startTime":447.628,"endTime":450.018,"body":"higher value that we can look at?"},{"startTime":450.318,"endTime":453.828,"body":"Those discussions need to happen"},{"startTime":450.318,"endTime":453.828,"body":"instead of the focus being,"},{"startTime":454.128,"endTime":455.848,"body":"Visualize the dependencies."},{"startTime":455.908,"endTime":456.788,"body":"Oh my goodness."},{"startTime":456.838,"endTime":458.708,"body":"It burns my wick when somebody says that."},{"startTime":459.038,"endTime":460.458,"body":"What, because what good does that do?"},{"startTime":460.458,"endTime":462.698,"body":"It's like saying, well there's"},{"startTime":460.458,"endTime":462.698,"body":"a train coming down the track."},{"startTime":462.978,"endTime":464.078,"body":"Wave a flag around."},{"startTime":464.478,"endTime":465.618,"body":"Get off the track."},{"startTime":465.988,"endTime":469.358,"body":"You know, get, if something's blocking"},{"startTime":465.988,"endTime":469.358,"body":"on the track, get rid of it from there."},{"startTime":469.608,"endTime":470.648,"body":"That train's not going to stop."},{"startTime":470.818,"endTime":473.928,"body":"Well, if I'm going to play"},{"startTime":470.818,"endTime":473.928,"body":"the role, play the role."},{"startTime":474.008,"endTime":474.298,"body":"right."},{"startTime":474.498,"endTime":475.128,"body":"Play the role."},{"startTime":475.868,"endTime":477.998,"body":"It's like I'm playing a game,"},{"startTime":475.868,"endTime":477.998,"body":"but I'm going to play the role"},{"startTime":477.998,"endTime":480.418,"body":"of, management here very quick."},{"startTime":481.228,"endTime":488.088,"body":"If you were working in a company, wouldn't"},{"startTime":481.228,"endTime":488.088,"body":"a first, a good, solid first step be to"},{"startTime":488.108,"endTime":493.008,"body":"visualize it somewhere and with the intent"},{"startTime":488.108,"endTime":493.008,"body":"that later we will use that visualization"},{"startTime":493.028,"endTime":495.038,"body":"to, to break down those dependencies."},{"startTime":495.338,"endTime":496.928,"body":"But like first we have to do it."},{"startTime":496.988,"endTime":500.388,"body":"You can have a look if, if that's what"},{"startTime":496.988,"endTime":500.388,"body":"makes you happy, have a board, right?"},{"startTime":500.808,"endTime":503.668,"body":"But move things off that"},{"startTime":500.808,"endTime":503.668,"body":"board as soon as you can."},{"startTime":503.978,"endTime":506.478,"body":"Now, the problem is this people often."},{"startTime":507.113,"endTime":510.743,"body":"Choose that dependency board as and"},{"startTime":507.113,"endTime":510.743,"body":"almost wear like a badge of honor."},{"startTime":510.743,"endTime":515.373,"body":"We have dependencies look and then every"},{"startTime":510.743,"endTime":515.373,"body":"time you meet with the you know With"},{"startTime":515.373,"endTime":519.783,"body":"the program teams or teams of teams or"},{"startTime":515.373,"endTime":519.783,"body":"whatever typically it is across teams They"},{"startTime":519.783,"endTime":525.413,"body":"say we have a dependency on those guys and"},{"startTime":519.783,"endTime":525.413,"body":"those guys in turn have a dependency on"},{"startTime":525.453,"endTime":528.213,"body":"somebody else That doesn't serve anything."},{"startTime":528.533,"endTime":532.273,"body":"So if you want us to say, look,"},{"startTime":528.533,"endTime":532.273,"body":"there's a common canvas that contains"},{"startTime":532.283,"endTime":535.153,"body":"all our dependencies and we have"},{"startTime":532.283,"endTime":535.153,"body":"to have a board, have a board."},{"startTime":535.373,"endTime":540.183,"body":"But don't leave things on the board"},{"startTime":535.373,"endTime":540.183,"body":"for any significant period of time."},{"startTime":540.723,"endTime":545.243,"body":"If you have the luxury of having"},{"startTime":540.723,"endTime":545.243,"body":"somebody who is tracking them, get"},{"startTime":545.243,"endTime":548.453,"body":"on that person and say, what are you"},{"startTime":545.243,"endTime":548.453,"body":"doing to remove these off the board?"},{"startTime":548.463,"endTime":550.433,"body":"They've been here 24 hours, 48 hours."},{"startTime":550.603,"endTime":554.853,"body":"Literally be that aggressive because"},{"startTime":550.603,"endTime":554.853,"body":"if you're not, days turn into weeks."},{"startTime":555.093,"endTime":555.393,"body":"Right?"},{"startTime":555.403,"endTime":556.253,"body":"Sprints turn into..."},{"startTime":557.218,"endTime":560.458,"body":"You know, releases or whatever"},{"startTime":557.218,"endTime":560.458,"body":"borders, I've seen dependencies"},{"startTime":560.458,"endTime":562.498,"body":"stay on the board for weeks on end."},{"startTime":562.798,"endTime":565.638,"body":"And the opportunity has"},{"startTime":562.798,"endTime":565.638,"body":"gone by for that work."},{"startTime":565.698,"endTime":570.958,"body":"This is why I brought up the, concept"},{"startTime":565.698,"endTime":570.958,"body":"of the executive, and all that executive"},{"startTime":571.548,"endTime":575.298,"body":"team and all that, because that, The"},{"startTime":571.548,"endTime":575.298,"body":"idea is, if you bring them something, and"},{"startTime":575.298,"endTime":578.958,"body":"then the next, the next cycle, I don't"},{"startTime":575.298,"endTime":578.958,"body":"know how often that team would meet,"},{"startTime":578.958,"endTime":582.598,"body":"right, but the next cycle, you, you,"},{"startTime":578.958,"endTime":582.598,"body":"you pull up the board and the exact same"},{"startTime":582.758,"endTime":587.908,"body":"blockers are in the exact same place,"},{"startTime":582.758,"endTime":587.908,"body":"I mean, that team should, that should"},{"startTime":587.918,"endTime":589.548,"body":"be that team's signal to say, Okay."},{"startTime":589.873,"endTime":591.523,"body":"Something is wrong here."},{"startTime":592.253,"endTime":595.593,"body":"Every week we should not be getting"},{"startTime":592.253,"endTime":595.593,"body":"the same quote status report."},{"startTime":595.623,"endTime":596.083,"body":"Where am I?"},{"startTime":596.123,"endTime":598.533,"body":"I can't, I don't know how to"},{"startTime":596.123,"endTime":598.533,"body":"make quotes with the new cameras."},{"startTime":598.833,"endTime":602.383,"body":"That team should be able to see"},{"startTime":598.833,"endTime":602.383,"body":"the same items on the board over"},{"startTime":602.383,"endTime":603.263,"body":"and over again and say, Hey!"},{"startTime":603.568,"endTime":604.418,"body":"Hey, wait a minute."},{"startTime":604.418,"endTime":606.508,"body":"Like something's wrong here."},{"startTime":606.758,"endTime":608.118,"body":"Let's, let's stop for a second."},{"startTime":608.248,"endTime":612.608,"body":"You know, they should do that, but"},{"startTime":608.248,"endTime":612.608,"body":"I'm still gonna go back and say."},{"startTime":613.243,"endTime":616.883,"body":"Why even, why even raise"},{"startTime":613.243,"endTime":616.883,"body":"it at that level, right?"},{"startTime":616.893,"endTime":619.433,"body":"You have a scrum of scrums every day."},{"startTime":620.403,"endTime":622.133,"body":"You should have a scrum"},{"startTime":620.403,"endTime":622.133,"body":"of scrums every day."},{"startTime":622.453,"endTime":625.223,"body":"So when you're having that scrum"},{"startTime":622.453,"endTime":625.223,"body":"of scrums, or, or, yeah, I know the"},{"startTime":625.223,"endTime":627.983,"body":"pundits will say, well, it doesn't"},{"startTime":625.223,"endTime":627.983,"body":"have to be every day, but whatever."},{"startTime":628.213,"endTime":629.758,"body":"When you have your scrum of scrums..."},{"startTime":630.568,"endTime":634.098,"body":"Discuss those, those,"},{"startTime":630.568,"endTime":634.098,"body":"impediments and those blockers."},{"startTime":634.758,"endTime":636.658,"body":"Those dependencies specifically, right?"},{"startTime":636.658,"endTime":637.278,"body":"Start there."},{"startTime":637.548,"endTime":638.978,"body":"Before they become blockers."},{"startTime":639.018,"endTime":642.498,"body":"Before you hide behind that and say,"},{"startTime":639.018,"endTime":642.498,"body":"Well, it's not us, it's them, right?"},{"startTime":642.538,"endTime":648.418,"body":"Oh, it's that classic, oh, There's a hole"},{"startTime":642.538,"endTime":648.418,"body":"in our boat, but the hole's on your side."},{"startTime":648.848,"endTime":650.628,"body":"The whole boat's going down, guys."},{"startTime":650.938,"endTime":652.458,"body":"So, talk about that."},{"startTime":652.538,"endTime":655.908,"body":"Now, if, if you've talked about"},{"startTime":652.538,"endTime":655.908,"body":"it, and you've talked about it and"},{"startTime":655.928,"endTime":658.303,"body":"nothing happens, And you have a board."},{"startTime":658.343,"endTime":660.023,"body":"Sure, the EAT is going to look at it."},{"startTime":660.813,"endTime":662.223,"body":"They're probably going to ask questions."},{"startTime":662.283,"endTime":667.053,"body":"But when they see it the second"},{"startTime":662.283,"endTime":667.053,"body":"time, I mean, that's an uncomfortable"},{"startTime":667.083,"endTime":671.253,"body":"situation, I would think, for the"},{"startTime":667.083,"endTime":671.253,"body":"Scrum of Scrums masters, right?"},{"startTime":671.493,"endTime":676.343,"body":"They should drive towards resolution,"},{"startTime":671.493,"endTime":676.343,"body":"and not just simply saying, we"},{"startTime":676.343,"endTime":677.503,"body":"were not able to achieve this."},{"startTime":677.543,"endTime":678.943,"body":"Because they should be able to get there."},{"startTime":679.093,"endTime":680.783,"body":"That's the whole point"},{"startTime":679.093,"endTime":680.783,"body":"of the Scrum of Scrums."},{"startTime":680.783,"endTime":682.003,"body":"So you can talk about stuff."},{"startTime":682.153,"endTime":685.863,"body":"From the category of dependencies in"},{"startTime":682.153,"endTime":685.863,"body":"the work, we're kind of talking about"},{"startTime":686.363,"endTime":690.073,"body":"problems with the organizational design."},{"startTime":690.923,"endTime":695.053,"body":"Meaning, I bring it to this executive"},{"startTime":690.923,"endTime":695.053,"body":"action team, Or I bring it to this,"},{"startTime":695.283,"endTime":699.933,"body":"whatever, leadership team, doesn't matter,"},{"startTime":695.283,"endTime":699.933,"body":"I, I, I appeal to authority in this, in"},{"startTime":699.933,"endTime":703.593,"body":"this case and authority just tells me"},{"startTime":699.933,"endTime":703.593,"body":"like, go back to your corner kid and like,"},{"startTime":703.593,"endTime":708.053,"body":"just put it on the, put the red string on"},{"startTime":703.593,"endTime":708.053,"body":"the board and that's all I want you to do"},{"startTime":708.213,"endTime":710.603,"body":"today and stop making a fuss about this."},{"startTime":710.603,"endTime":710.793,"body":"Right?"},{"startTime":710.803,"endTime":712.933,"body":"That's, that's the environment"},{"startTime":710.803,"endTime":712.933,"body":"that we're talking about now."},{"startTime":713.233,"endTime":716.563,"body":"Oh, I don't work in that environment,"},{"startTime":713.233,"endTime":716.563,"body":"so I can't like, if you work in that"},{"startTime":716.563,"endTime":717.953,"body":"environment, I have empathy for you."},{"startTime":718.063,"endTime":718.603,"body":"I'm sorry."},{"startTime":718.603,"endTime":719.923,"body":"Okay."},{"startTime":720.093,"endTime":721.213,"body":"Yeah, I bless you."},{"startTime":721.293,"endTime":722.173,"body":"Move along with your life."},{"startTime":722.173,"endTime":724.363,"body":"There are plenty of people"},{"startTime":722.173,"endTime":724.363,"body":"that are in that situation."},{"startTime":724.373,"endTime":725.523,"body":"There's tons of people, I'm sure."},{"startTime":725.643,"endTime":729.063,"body":"And, and, and, like you said earlier,"},{"startTime":725.643,"endTime":729.063,"body":"you're like, well, it's kind of a point of"},{"startTime":729.063,"endTime":733.223,"body":"pride of how many red strings can I draw"},{"startTime":729.063,"endTime":733.223,"body":"to all the things that you've asked me to"},{"startTime":733.223,"endTime":737.853,"body":"do as kind of my little act of rebellion"},{"startTime":733.223,"endTime":737.853,"body":"of, you asked me to do all these things."},{"startTime":737.883,"endTime":741.868,"body":"Well, I mean that That's great from"},{"startTime":737.883,"endTime":741.868,"body":"like a, dunking on people kind of"},{"startTime":741.868,"endTime":744.108,"body":"perspective, but that doesn't help."},{"startTime":744.408,"endTime":747.838,"body":"It does not, but it does give you"},{"startTime":744.408,"endTime":747.838,"body":"something you can hide behind, right?"},{"startTime":747.868,"endTime":751.168,"body":"Your team's not delivering, but hey,"},{"startTime":747.868,"endTime":751.168,"body":"look at all these dependencies we have"},{"startTime":751.168,"endTime":752.838,"body":"on this other team or other teams."},{"startTime":753.828,"endTime":758.618,"body":"So yeah, , even at the executive action"},{"startTime":753.828,"endTime":758.618,"body":"team or LT or whatever you want to call it"},{"startTime":758.818,"endTime":762.688,"body":"at that level, you're still going to get"},{"startTime":758.818,"endTime":762.688,"body":"a lot of that turf protection and things"},{"startTime":762.688,"endTime":766.503,"body":"like that going on where they're going"},{"startTime":762.688,"endTime":766.503,"body":"to say, you're not depending on my team."},{"startTime":766.513,"endTime":770.023,"body":"My team's depending on somebody else"},{"startTime":766.513,"endTime":770.023,"body":"before we can give you what you want."},{"startTime":770.023,"endTime":771.183,"body":"So it's not on us."},{"startTime":771.373,"endTime":774.593,"body":"Well, I'm here to tell you it is right."},{"startTime":774.993,"endTime":779.983,"body":"You're simply hiding behind that,"},{"startTime":774.993,"endTime":779.983,"body":"finger pointing and blame shifting"},{"startTime":779.983,"endTime":783.493,"body":"and all of that political, all"},{"startTime":779.983,"endTime":783.493,"body":"those political games that go on."},{"startTime":783.513,"endTime":786.133,"body":"All, all you're doing a"},{"startTime":783.513,"endTime":786.133,"body":"reenactment of the matrix."},{"startTime":786.133,"endTime":787.803,"body":"You all, you're all just dodging bullets."},{"startTime":787.803,"endTime":788.053,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":788.053,"endTime":790.023,"body":"And like, that doesn't help though."},{"startTime":790.023,"endTime":790.503,"body":"I like the."},{"startTime":791.068,"endTime":796.088,"body":"The, the better organizational design"},{"startTime":791.068,"endTime":796.088,"body":"in this case, like there, there"},{"startTime":796.088,"endTime":799.238,"body":"are three categories that I kind of"},{"startTime":796.088,"endTime":799.238,"body":"outlined thinking about this in my"},{"startTime":799.238,"endTime":801.168,"body":"head, which is , in my current role."},{"startTime":801.598,"endTime":804.158,"body":"There's a director of product,"},{"startTime":801.598,"endTime":804.158,"body":"and under the director of product,"},{"startTime":804.158,"endTime":806.028,"body":"there are several product managers."},{"startTime":806.378,"endTime":809.388,"body":"And there are weekly sessions"},{"startTime":806.378,"endTime":809.388,"body":"between the director of product and"},{"startTime":809.388,"endTime":813.218,"body":"the product managers, where we all"},{"startTime":809.388,"endTime":813.218,"body":"talk about what we're implementing."},{"startTime":813.608,"endTime":816.508,"body":"How our roadmaps are kind of"},{"startTime":813.608,"endTime":816.508,"body":"coming together and moving forward,"},{"startTime":816.768,"endTime":821.548,"body":"and then we'll outline any, any,"},{"startTime":816.768,"endTime":821.548,"body":"blockers and impediments, right?"},{"startTime":821.578,"endTime":823.988,"body":"We'll outline them right there"},{"startTime":821.578,"endTime":823.988,"body":"with the product people so that"},{"startTime":824.008,"endTime":825.548,"body":"we can make a, we can make a call."},{"startTime":825.658,"endTime":831.178,"body":"If it gets escalated up at the level,"},{"startTime":825.658,"endTime":831.178,"body":"That says we need a call to be made"},{"startTime":831.178,"endTime":834.678,"body":"because we don't feel comfortable or"},{"startTime":831.178,"endTime":834.678,"body":"we may Or we're just surfacing that we"},{"startTime":834.678,"endTime":838.798,"body":"made a call We just want you to know"},{"startTime":834.678,"endTime":838.798,"body":"about it and this is your opportunity to"},{"startTime":838.858,"endTime":842.848,"body":"kind of disagree and for us to revisit"},{"startTime":838.858,"endTime":842.848,"body":"that decision That's the opportunity."},{"startTime":842.878,"endTime":846.048,"body":"It's it's a weekly opportunity"},{"startTime":842.878,"endTime":846.048,"body":"with the business , because"},{"startTime":846.048,"endTime":848.408,"body":"there's other reps other than"},{"startTime":846.048,"endTime":848.408,"body":"just the director product, right?"},{"startTime":848.408,"endTime":850.528,"body":"That sure that that meeting"},{"startTime":848.408,"endTime":850.528,"body":"is open to a lot of people."},{"startTime":850.828,"endTime":855.848,"body":"Had if we didn't have a session like"},{"startTime":850.828,"endTime":855.848,"body":"that and we didn't have a director, maybe"},{"startTime":855.848,"endTime":858.338,"body":"we didn't have product managers, right?"},{"startTime":858.638,"endTime":862.668,"body":"Like we would have an org design"},{"startTime":858.638,"endTime":862.668,"body":"where I don't know who would make that"},{"startTime":862.678,"endTime":866.038,"body":"decision if we didn't have product"},{"startTime":862.678,"endTime":866.038,"body":"managers, a panel of managers, a"},{"startTime":866.038,"endTime":869.118,"body":"steering committee, project managers?"},{"startTime":869.758,"endTime":876.018,"body":"Nobody makes that call chief"},{"startTime":869.758,"endTime":876.018,"body":"operations probably or the hippo hippo."},{"startTime":876.018,"endTime":876.568,"body":"Yeah, absolutely."},{"startTime":876.568,"endTime":877.768,"body":"Ceo."},{"startTime":877.768,"endTime":883.928,"body":"Yeah, so these are these are classic"},{"startTime":877.768,"endTime":883.928,"body":"indications off an org design that's"},{"startTime":883.928,"endTime":886.518,"body":"not optimally aligned to deliver"},{"startTime":883.928,"endTime":886.518,"body":"what you're trying to deliver."},{"startTime":887.013,"endTime":893.693,"body":"I've seen this in organizations that"},{"startTime":887.013,"endTime":893.693,"body":"use the old matrix or, shared services"},{"startTime":893.693,"endTime":899.723,"body":"model because oftentimes the dependency"},{"startTime":893.693,"endTime":899.723,"body":"is the availability of a resource."},{"startTime":899.813,"endTime":900.863,"body":"God, I hate that term."},{"startTime":901.763,"endTime":904.353,"body":"Yeah, a resource from this other team."},{"startTime":904.728,"endTime":905.108,"body":"Right."},{"startTime":905.318,"endTime":908.818,"body":"We put the request in and they're"},{"startTime":905.318,"endTime":908.818,"body":"not available for another sprint."},{"startTime":909.688,"endTime":910.908,"body":"Therefore we have a dependence."},{"startTime":910.928,"endTime":912.638,"body":"Losers aren't available."},{"startTime":912.638,"endTime":913.108,"body":"Yeah, right."},{"startTime":913.728,"endTime":913.988,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":914.338,"endTime":917.208,"body":"So that, that's a classic"},{"startTime":914.338,"endTime":917.208,"body":"indication right there that your"},{"startTime":917.208,"endTime":920.608,"body":"org design is somewhat wanting."},{"startTime":920.608,"endTime":921.278,"body":"I'm being generous."},{"startTime":921.578,"endTime":924.168,"body":"The funny part is like, I want to"},{"startTime":921.578,"endTime":924.168,"body":"go into this, but I also, it doesn't"},{"startTime":924.178,"endTime":928.668,"body":"really fit in this podcast of, of"},{"startTime":924.178,"endTime":928.668,"body":"I've seen teams weaponize this."},{"startTime":929.423,"endTime":931.563,"body":"That's the mechanism that"},{"startTime":929.423,"endTime":931.563,"body":"you're outlining right now."},{"startTime":931.853,"endTime":935.663,"body":"I've seen teams weaponize this in the"},{"startTime":931.853,"endTime":935.663,"body":"opposite direction, like bad teams,"},{"startTime":935.863,"endTime":940.133,"body":"where you have like a hero developer"},{"startTime":935.863,"endTime":940.133,"body":"that works like Saturday and Sunday"},{"startTime":940.133,"endTime":943.423,"body":"so that on Monday morning they can"},{"startTime":940.133,"endTime":943.423,"body":"come into the status meeting and say"},{"startTime":943.423,"endTime":945.293,"body":"like, we're waiting on everyone else."},{"startTime":945.673,"endTime":948.513,"body":"Well, I can't imagine we worked weekend."},{"startTime":948.523,"endTime":949.703,"body":"What have y'all been doing?"},{"startTime":949.703,"endTime":951.363,"body":"Like I've seen people do that."},{"startTime":952.193,"endTime":954.393,"body":"You know, just, just from the"},{"startTime":952.193,"endTime":954.393,"body":"perspective of, They're just trying"},{"startTime":954.393,"endTime":955.823,"body":"to make other people look bad."},{"startTime":956.093,"endTime":956.823,"body":"That's what they're trying to do."},{"startTime":956.833,"endTime":958.933,"body":"They're trying to play"},{"startTime":956.833,"endTime":958.933,"body":"corporate politics, basically."},{"startTime":959.373,"endTime":960.613,"body":"At a developer, and it's sad."},{"startTime":961.033,"endTime":961.953,"body":"Because they work the weekend."},{"startTime":962.163,"endTime":966.373,"body":"What did you give up for, to be able"},{"startTime":962.163,"endTime":966.373,"body":"to dunk on the other teams with this?"},{"startTime":966.423,"endTime":967.943,"body":"You know, that's, that's"},{"startTime":966.423,"endTime":967.943,"body":"what I'm thinking."},{"startTime":968.173,"endTime":971.223,"body":"I can't imagine that that's not"},{"startTime":968.173,"endTime":971.223,"body":"what everyone else is thinking."},{"startTime":971.998,"endTime":972.618,"body":"It is."},{"startTime":972.688,"endTime":975.768,"body":"Everyone's probably thinking,"},{"startTime":972.688,"endTime":975.768,"body":"well, this, this loaner doesn't"},{"startTime":975.768,"endTime":979.128,"body":"have a family or friends and he's"},{"startTime":975.768,"endTime":979.128,"body":"just wanting to work the weekend."},{"startTime":979.328,"endTime":981.348,"body":"I've seen that more than one time."},{"startTime":981.678,"endTime":982.158,"body":"For sure."},{"startTime":982.168,"endTime":982.328,"body":"More than once."},{"startTime":982.338,"endTime":982.928,"body":"For sure."},{"startTime":983.128,"endTime":984.038,"body":"Yeah, it's, it's bad."},{"startTime":984.468,"endTime":988.328,"body":"The reason that I noted org design"},{"startTime":984.468,"endTime":988.328,"body":"at the top of this list is because"},{"startTime":988.628,"endTime":991.828,"body":"usually, dependencies in org design."},{"startTime":992.793,"endTime":997.683,"body":"And we're going to kind of go together"},{"startTime":992.793,"endTime":997.683,"body":"to cause trouble to say, Hey, well,"},{"startTime":997.713,"endTime":1001.363,"body":"team a needs to start on this work in"},{"startTime":997.713,"endTime":1001.363,"body":"order for team B to pick up this work."},{"startTime":1001.373,"endTime":1006.583,"body":"And we're and also we're going to"},{"startTime":1001.373,"endTime":1006.583,"body":"assume because we're talking about"},{"startTime":1006.583,"endTime":1009.293,"body":"blockers and impediments, we're"},{"startTime":1006.583,"endTime":1009.293,"body":"going to assume that we don't have."},{"startTime":1009.683,"endTime":1011.243,"body":"Bad org design."},{"startTime":1011.413,"endTime":1013.543,"body":"We just have some kind"},{"startTime":1011.413,"endTime":1013.543,"body":"of suboptimal org design."},{"startTime":1013.733,"endTime":1016.833,"body":"Bad org design would be like, all"},{"startTime":1013.733,"endTime":1016.833,"body":"my developers sit over here on this"},{"startTime":1016.833,"endTime":1020.093,"body":"team, and all my QA people sit over"},{"startTime":1016.833,"endTime":1020.093,"body":"here on this team, and all my UAT"},{"startTime":1020.093,"endTime":1023.283,"body":"people sit over here on this team,"},{"startTime":1020.093,"endTime":1023.283,"body":"and then one team has to hand off to"},{"startTime":1023.283,"endTime":1026.443,"body":"the next team, that has to hand off"},{"startTime":1023.283,"endTime":1026.443,"body":"to the next team, and, the impediments"},{"startTime":1026.443,"endTime":1029.493,"body":"there are pretty clearly obvious."},{"startTime":1029.903,"endTime":1031.543,"body":"You know, you can see them coming."},{"startTime":1031.543,"endTime":1033.533,"body":"I have seen that"},{"startTime":1031.543,"endTime":1033.533,"body":"structure too, by the way."},{"startTime":1033.643,"endTime":1037.873,"body":"Oh, I'm sure yeah, right There's"},{"startTime":1033.643,"endTime":1037.873,"body":"not enough, you know UX people to"},{"startTime":1037.873,"endTime":1040.133,"body":"go around so they live over there."},{"startTime":1040.133,"endTime":1043.533,"body":"And yeah, you see where"},{"startTime":1040.133,"endTime":1043.533,"body":"that's I know Yeah,"},{"startTime":1043.813,"endTime":1049.973,"body":"I I commented on  a podcast and the"},{"startTime":1043.813,"endTime":1049.973,"body":"guy I can't remember who was I could"},{"startTime":1049.973,"endTime":1053.943,"body":"probably pull it up right quick, but the,"},{"startTime":1049.973,"endTime":1053.943,"body":"he made the statement silos are evil."},{"startTime":1054.368,"endTime":1055.348,"body":"That's what he made the statement."},{"startTime":1055.598,"endTime":1056.738,"body":"He's a Silicon Valley guy too."},{"startTime":1056.738,"endTime":1062.208,"body":"He's like silos are evil and I was"},{"startTime":1056.738,"endTime":1062.208,"body":"like, that's funny because 50 plus"},{"startTime":1062.208,"endTime":1064.278,"body":"years we've known silos are evil."},{"startTime":1064.768,"endTime":1068.928,"body":"But yet, we still don't understand"},{"startTime":1064.768,"endTime":1068.928,"body":"how, it's, it's, it should be"},{"startTime":1068.928,"endTime":1070.598,"body":"so common sense at this point."},{"startTime":1071.058,"endTime":1075.858,"body":"That silos are evil, and, and, and,"},{"startTime":1071.058,"endTime":1075.858,"body":"drawing a circle around your team and"},{"startTime":1075.868,"endTime":1080.068,"body":"giving, your, Oh, my team just rolls stuff"},{"startTime":1075.868,"endTime":1080.068,"body":"out to the next environment, and they're"},{"startTime":1080.068,"endTime":1084.578,"body":"only measured by the number of deployments"},{"startTime":1080.068,"endTime":1084.578,"body":"they do per year and the speed at which"},{"startTime":1084.578,"endTime":1089.418,"body":"they do deployments and, they're measuring"},{"startTime":1084.578,"endTime":1089.418,"body":"stuff that like, they very barely control,"},{"startTime":1090.358,"endTime":1094.648,"body":"but that's their metrics, like their"},{"startTime":1090.358,"endTime":1094.648,"body":"metrics are very strange, like you and I"},{"startTime":1094.698,"endTime":1096.518,"body":"both would look at it and be like, Okay."},{"startTime":1097.148,"endTime":1099.688,"body":"What they do really highly"},{"startTime":1097.148,"endTime":1099.688,"body":"is dependent on other teams."},{"startTime":1099.688,"endTime":1103.668,"body":"Like it really is very little is"},{"startTime":1099.688,"endTime":1103.668,"body":"dependent on what that actual team does."},{"startTime":1103.988,"endTime":1105.458,"body":"So you're measuring that team."},{"startTime":1105.568,"endTime":1108.098,"body":"You should measure the whole"},{"startTime":1105.568,"endTime":1108.098,"body":"system and that team is just"},{"startTime":1108.098,"endTime":1108.988,"body":"a component in the system."},{"startTime":1109.788,"endTime":1113.798,"body":"Deming like had this great in the, in"},{"startTime":1109.788,"endTime":1113.798,"body":"the out of the crisis book, like he,"},{"startTime":1113.838,"endTime":1115.198,"body":"Oh, which I think I have in my bag."},{"startTime":1115.258,"endTime":1119.598,"body":"He's like, he has this great, graphic"},{"startTime":1115.258,"endTime":1119.598,"body":"where he just, he just outlines all"},{"startTime":1119.598,"endTime":1125.658,"body":"the different pieces of a system,"},{"startTime":1119.598,"endTime":1125.658,"body":"development, QA, whatever production"},{"startTime":1125.658,"endTime":1129.238,"body":"support, and then he's like, this is"},{"startTime":1125.658,"endTime":1129.238,"body":"the system and everything works great."},{"startTime":1129.248,"endTime":1131.788,"body":"And he's like, Oh, now I'm going to teach"},{"startTime":1129.248,"endTime":1131.788,"body":"you how to destroy this whole system"},{"startTime":1132.078,"endTime":1134.208,"body":"and how to make every piece suboptimal."},{"startTime":1134.208,"endTime":1135.798,"body":"And the org is all"},{"startTime":1134.208,"endTime":1135.798,"body":"fighting with each other."},{"startTime":1136.048,"endTime":1139.858,"body":"And quite simply, all he did was he"},{"startTime":1136.048,"endTime":1139.858,"body":"he copied the same diagram, but he"},{"startTime":1139.858,"endTime":1141.508,"body":"drew a circle around every single one."},{"startTime":1141.518,"endTime":1143.878,"body":"And he's like, every single one of"},{"startTime":1141.518,"endTime":1143.878,"body":"these now a separate department."},{"startTime":1144.028,"endTime":1145.178,"body":"They have a separate manager."},{"startTime":1145.348,"endTime":1146.368,"body":"They have separate metrics."},{"startTime":1149.318,"endTime":1150.558,"body":"And He's like, now they're all silos."},{"startTime":1150.618,"endTime":1152.268,"body":"I've destroyed the whole system."},{"startTime":1152.308,"endTime":1153.548,"body":"And then everything sucks now."},{"startTime":1154.063,"endTime":1157.013,"body":"The point of the story"},{"startTime":1154.063,"endTime":1157.013,"body":"was that silos are evil."},{"startTime":1157.683,"endTime":1161.193,"body":"I don't know if you will ever be"},{"startTime":1157.683,"endTime":1161.193,"body":"able to solve the impediment problem"},{"startTime":1161.793,"endTime":1165.443,"body":"while you have this deep siloing"},{"startTime":1161.793,"endTime":1165.443,"body":"problem happening in your organization"},{"startTime":1166.283,"endTime":1169.263,"body":"While you have this siloing problem"},{"startTime":1166.283,"endTime":1169.263,"body":", it's going to be very difficult"},{"startTime":1170.123,"endTime":1172.063,"body":"with org design working against you."},{"startTime":1172.443,"endTime":1177.233,"body":"To resolve anything with blockers or"},{"startTime":1172.443,"endTime":1177.233,"body":"impediments because while each department"},{"startTime":1177.413,"endTime":1180.793,"body":"has its own metrics and has its own"},{"startTime":1177.413,"endTime":1180.793,"body":"numbers and has its own manager and has"},{"startTime":1180.793,"endTime":1185.013,"body":"its own way of looking at the world, it's"},{"startTime":1180.793,"endTime":1185.013,"body":"gonna be different to back out to get a"},{"startTime":1185.013,"endTime":1189.343,"body":"whole systems view of, well, what could"},{"startTime":1185.013,"endTime":1189.343,"body":"we do to move this impediment forward?"},{"startTime":1189.913,"endTime":1191.953,"body":"You know, how can we help move?"},{"startTime":1191.953,"endTime":1193.523,"body":"Oh, well, that that's"},{"startTime":1191.953,"endTime":1193.523,"body":"somebody else's problem."},{"startTime":1193.993,"endTime":1195.243,"body":"That whole throat over the wall."},{"startTime":1195.243,"endTime":1196.123,"body":"It's somebody else's problem."},{"startTime":1196.123,"endTime":1200.683,"body":"Like while that attitude is prevalent in"},{"startTime":1196.123,"endTime":1200.683,"body":"the organization, again, there are very"},{"startTime":1200.683,"endTime":1204.293,"body":"few cul-de-sacs we come to on the podcast"},{"startTime":1200.683,"endTime":1204.293,"body":"where we're like, you can't do anything."},{"startTime":1204.593,"endTime":1207.023,"body":"Keep their resume updated"},{"startTime":1204.593,"endTime":1207.023,"body":"like this is one of them."},{"startTime":1207.023,"endTime":1210.563,"body":"Like if, if you're, if the org"},{"startTime":1207.023,"endTime":1210.563,"body":"design is one where all you try"},{"startTime":1210.563,"endTime":1213.493,"body":"to do is hot potato the thing"},{"startTime":1210.563,"endTime":1213.493,"body":"away from you as fast as possible."},{"startTime":1213.493,"endTime":1215.013,"body":"So it doesn't stick to your numbers."},{"startTime":1215.313,"endTime":1217.053,"body":"I mean, you're not, you're"},{"startTime":1215.313,"endTime":1217.053,"body":"just playing games, man."},{"startTime":1217.053,"endTime":1218.143,"body":"You're not, it's, it's yeah."},{"startTime":1218.143,"endTime":1219.193,"body":"At that point, you're is."},{"startTime":1219.313,"endTime":1221.533,"body":"Just trying to push the ocean"},{"startTime":1219.313,"endTime":1221.533,"body":"back with your bare hands."},{"startTime":1221.543,"endTime":1225.493,"body":"So one of the things you can try to do,"},{"startTime":1221.543,"endTime":1225.493,"body":"and I don't know how successful this"},{"startTime":1225.543,"endTime":1231.043,"body":"this might be, so that's my caveat here,"},{"startTime":1225.543,"endTime":1231.043,"body":"is to create some fluidity across the"},{"startTime":1231.043,"endTime":1236.313,"body":"teams that have these dependencies and"},{"startTime":1231.043,"endTime":1236.313,"body":"say, as and when a dependency becomes"},{"startTime":1236.313,"endTime":1240.483,"body":"known, let's get a few people together"},{"startTime":1236.313,"endTime":1240.483,"body":"from team A, team B, team C, whatever."},{"startTime":1240.483,"endTime":1241.423,"body":"And."},{"startTime":1241.613,"endTime":1244.663,"body":"Just huddle together and"},{"startTime":1241.613,"endTime":1244.663,"body":"say, How do we solve this?"},{"startTime":1244.893,"endTime":1245.213,"body":"Right?"},{"startTime":1245.753,"endTime":1249.843,"body":"And all of that work stuff"},{"startTime":1245.753,"endTime":1249.843,"body":"and, boundaries, all of that."},{"startTime":1249.843,"endTime":1250.663,"body":"Cast that aside."},{"startTime":1250.903,"endTime":1251.973,"body":"You're all peers."},{"startTime":1252.313,"endTime":1254.753,"body":"You all have to deliver one"},{"startTime":1252.313,"endTime":1254.753,"body":"thing to the customer, right?"},{"startTime":1254.753,"endTime":1256.273,"body":"That's the only thing that should matter."},{"startTime":1256.633,"endTime":1259.383,"body":"So get your heads together"},{"startTime":1256.633,"endTime":1259.383,"body":"and see how you can solve it."},{"startTime":1260.233,"endTime":1264.393,"body":"And then you can take that up to those"},{"startTime":1260.233,"endTime":1264.393,"body":"people that are sitting in their silos"},{"startTime":1264.393,"endTime":1269.003,"body":"and say, We have this impediment, this"},{"startTime":1264.393,"endTime":1269.003,"body":"dependency, whatever you want to call it."},{"startTime":1269.353,"endTime":1271.233,"body":"It will become a blocker"},{"startTime":1269.353,"endTime":1271.233,"body":"if it hasn't already."},{"startTime":1271.463,"endTime":1272.873,"body":"Here's what we did about it."},{"startTime":1272.933,"endTime":1275.133,"body":"We got together and we have a solution."},{"startTime":1275.673,"endTime":1280.653,"body":"Nine times, nine times out of ten because"},{"startTime":1275.673,"endTime":1280.653,"body":"it wasn't their idea, they made poopoo it."},{"startTime":1280.968,"endTime":1283.648,"body":"So take two, take two solutions to them."},{"startTime":1283.658,"endTime":1287.528,"body":"One just kind of lob it up so"},{"startTime":1283.658,"endTime":1287.528,"body":"they can throw it out, right?"},{"startTime":1287.558,"endTime":1290.488,"body":"And then the other one, they might"},{"startTime":1287.558,"endTime":1290.488,"body":"say, well, this is a little better."},{"startTime":1291.128,"endTime":1291.608,"body":"I don't know."},{"startTime":1291.728,"endTime":1292.358,"body":"It might work."},{"startTime":1292.358,"endTime":1292.998,"body":"It might not."},{"startTime":1293.158,"endTime":1294.228,"body":"Let's say worth a try."},{"startTime":1294.348,"endTime":1296.048,"body":"Yeah, it may be."},{"startTime":1296.348,"endTime":1300.478,"body":"The other pieces of this category"},{"startTime":1296.348,"endTime":1300.478,"body":"are tactical impediments."},{"startTime":1300.528,"endTime":1304.248,"body":"Meaning like, we, we want to"},{"startTime":1300.528,"endTime":1304.248,"body":"introduce this new functionality,"},{"startTime":1304.248,"endTime":1306.618,"body":"but, we can only do that on."},{"startTime":1306.918,"endTime":1310.458,"body":"Whatever, some new version of the"},{"startTime":1306.918,"endTime":1310.458,"body":"database or some new version of, some"},{"startTime":1310.458,"endTime":1313.898,"body":"new operating system or something, taking"},{"startTime":1310.458,"endTime":1313.898,"body":"advantage of something new that's not"},{"startTime":1313.908,"endTime":1320.358,"body":"in our, another team has the action"},{"startTime":1313.908,"endTime":1320.358,"body":"item to upgrade a database or upgrade a"},{"startTime":1320.368,"endTime":1321.968,"body":"backend technology to a certain version."},{"startTime":1321.968,"endTime":1325.798,"body":"And you just have a hard dependency"},{"startTime":1321.968,"endTime":1325.798,"body":"of, until that team completes that"},{"startTime":1325.798,"endTime":1327.928,"body":"item, we can't start with our stuff."},{"startTime":1328.098,"endTime":1330.968,"body":"I mean, even when I'm saying that I'm"},{"startTime":1328.098,"endTime":1330.968,"body":"kind of like thinking in the back of"},{"startTime":1330.968,"endTime":1336.608,"body":"my head, you always can decide to do it"},{"startTime":1330.968,"endTime":1336.608,"body":"ahead of when the other team doesn't, or"},{"startTime":1336.608,"endTime":1338.268,"body":"to just grab it and try to figure it out."},{"startTime":1338.558,"endTime":1342.328,"body":"But you all, you also risk like"},{"startTime":1338.558,"endTime":1342.328,"body":"wasting a whole bunch of time and"},{"startTime":1342.328,"endTime":1346.358,"body":"that assumes that you have had some"},{"startTime":1342.328,"endTime":1346.358,"body":"kind of planning with the other team."},{"startTime":1346.578,"endTime":1352.098,"body":"Which we haven't talked about here is,"},{"startTime":1346.578,"endTime":1352.098,"body":"is team to team communicate in intra,"},{"startTime":1352.158,"endTime":1357.318,"body":"intra team, intra, intra, intra team,"},{"startTime":1352.158,"endTime":1357.318,"body":"intra team communication, meaning"},{"startTime":1357.368,"endTime":1363.478,"body":"methods of communicating with other"},{"startTime":1357.368,"endTime":1363.478,"body":"teams about that you're about to have or"},{"startTime":1363.478,"endTime":1368.018,"body":"that they're causing like, like again,"},{"startTime":1363.478,"endTime":1368.018,"body":"scrum of scale has a system for this."},{"startTime":1368.528,"endTime":1371.578,"body":"Um, with their scaled meetings,"},{"startTime":1368.528,"endTime":1371.578,"body":"I don't know, like safe"},{"startTime":1371.578,"endTime":1373.498,"body":"theoretically has a system for this."},{"startTime":1374.288,"endTime":1377.528,"body":"But that, that's not really the"},{"startTime":1374.288,"endTime":1377.528,"body":"point of the, of the PI planning."},{"startTime":1377.928,"endTime":1379.448,"body":"They have a scrum of scrums as well."},{"startTime":1379.518,"endTime":1379.858,"body":"They do."},{"startTime":1379.918,"endTime":1380.278,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":1380.578,"endTime":1380.838,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":1380.838,"endTime":1386.138,"body":"I mean, I think one of the things that"},{"startTime":1380.838,"endTime":1386.138,"body":"you have to bear in mind is when you try"},{"startTime":1386.138,"endTime":1390.838,"body":"and do this, There's either a covert way"},{"startTime":1386.138,"endTime":1390.838,"body":"of doing it or an overt way of doing it."},{"startTime":1391.158,"endTime":1394.038,"body":"So the covert way, what I'm saying"},{"startTime":1391.158,"endTime":1394.038,"body":"is get a few people together."},{"startTime":1394.038,"endTime":1394.818,"body":"Let's be fluid."},{"startTime":1394.818,"endTime":1396.698,"body":"Let's get together and just hash this out."},{"startTime":1396.998,"endTime":1397.948,"body":"It might work."},{"startTime":1398.058,"endTime":1404.028,"body":"I'm hesitant because in, in many orgs,"},{"startTime":1398.058,"endTime":1404.028,"body":"this kind of behavior is not encouraged."},{"startTime":1404.038,"endTime":1406.108,"body":"You're just being told, hey, listen."},{"startTime":1406.628,"endTime":1407.368,"body":"Stay in your lane."},{"startTime":1407.478,"endTime":1407.768,"body":"Right?"},{"startTime":1408.098,"endTime":1408.948,"body":"This is not for you."},{"startTime":1409.248,"endTime":1411.148,"body":"If you're in that sort of environment."},{"startTime":1411.338,"endTime":1412.528,"body":"Yeah, it's tough."},{"startTime":1412.578,"endTime":1412.868,"body":"Right?"},{"startTime":1412.928,"endTime":1414.028,"body":"Keep that resume updated."},{"startTime":1414.058,"endTime":1417.698,"body":"But if you're in that other"},{"startTime":1414.058,"endTime":1417.698,"body":"environment where people say, Oh,"},{"startTime":1417.698,"endTime":1419.588,"body":"we welcome your suggestions, right?"},{"startTime":1420.298,"endTime":1421.458,"body":"You might have a chance there."},{"startTime":1421.508,"endTime":1421.868,"body":"Right?"},{"startTime":1421.908,"endTime":1423.528,"body":"Go take one or two alternatives."},{"startTime":1423.568,"endTime":1426.708,"body":"Always take at least a couple and"},{"startTime":1423.568,"endTime":1426.708,"body":"say, Well, here's what we want to do."},{"startTime":1427.318,"endTime":1428.298,"body":"We just want to inform you."},{"startTime":1428.308,"endTime":1429.108,"body":"We're going to do this."},{"startTime":1429.433,"endTime":1432.673,"body":"Starting tomorrow and they"},{"startTime":1429.433,"endTime":1432.673,"body":"may just say, stop doing that."},{"startTime":1432.673,"endTime":1434.093,"body":"That's not, move along."},{"startTime":1434.493,"endTime":1439.823,"body":"But I want to talk a little bit about this"},{"startTime":1434.493,"endTime":1439.823,"body":"idea that, you have these dependencies."},{"startTime":1440.123,"endTime":1443.483,"body":"The product folks can get"},{"startTime":1440.123,"endTime":1443.483,"body":"engaged with this as well."},{"startTime":1443.723,"endTime":1445.013,"body":"They should get engaged."},{"startTime":1445.153,"endTime":1446.863,"body":"If your development team,"},{"startTime":1445.153,"endTime":1446.863,"body":"you have this thing."},{"startTime":1447.108,"endTime":1450.408,"body":"Please don't insulate your product people"},{"startTime":1447.108,"endTime":1450.408,"body":"out of this because they'll be able to"},{"startTime":1450.468,"endTime":1455.508,"body":"reframe, what, what the scope of this"},{"startTime":1450.468,"endTime":1455.508,"body":"work is, maybe shuffle some things around"},{"startTime":1455.878,"endTime":1461.838,"body":"or reduce or shape the scope of it where"},{"startTime":1455.878,"endTime":1461.838,"body":"it can skirt around the dependency."},{"startTime":1461.998,"endTime":1464.218,"body":"Maybe there's a chance"},{"startTime":1461.998,"endTime":1464.218,"body":"that that can happen."},{"startTime":1465.138,"endTime":1467.818,"body":"And if, even if nothing happens,"},{"startTime":1465.138,"endTime":1467.818,"body":"they're informed, right?"},{"startTime":1467.818,"endTime":1469.298,"body":"So you need to make sure that."},{"startTime":1469.348,"endTime":1470.308,"body":"They're engaged."},{"startTime":1470.608,"endTime":1475.758,"body":"the technical side of it, I think of like"},{"startTime":1470.608,"endTime":1475.758,"body":"platform scaling and stuff like that."},{"startTime":1475.758,"endTime":1480.078,"body":"Or, hey, we need to, add x number"},{"startTime":1475.758,"endTime":1480.078,"body":"of cores in our data center, or"},{"startTime":1480.078,"endTime":1481.128,"body":"something like, things like that."},{"startTime":1481.128,"endTime":1481.788,"body":"They're purely."},{"startTime":1482.088,"endTime":1485.388,"body":"Technology related, like I have nothing"},{"startTime":1482.088,"endTime":1485.388,"body":"to do with product, that product kind"},{"startTime":1485.388,"endTime":1488.888,"body":"of like, we have their eyes glaze over"},{"startTime":1485.388,"endTime":1488.888,"body":"whenever they hear this, Oh, I've got"},{"startTime":1488.888,"endTime":1490.388,"body":"an increased bandwidth or whatever."},{"startTime":1491.178,"endTime":1491.728,"body":"I don't care."},{"startTime":1491.818,"endTime":1492.698,"body":"Like just figure it out."},{"startTime":1492.998,"endTime":1496.488,"body":"The, the, the technical impediments,"},{"startTime":1492.998,"endTime":1496.488,"body":"these are the ones that."},{"startTime":1497.213,"endTime":1502.373,"body":"In product, I've seen kind of sabotage"},{"startTime":1497.213,"endTime":1502.373,"body":"things because, typical product managers,"},{"startTime":1502.753,"endTime":1507.753,"body":"they don't really understand the depth"},{"startTime":1502.753,"endTime":1507.753,"body":"of what's being asked, an example of"},{"startTime":1507.753,"endTime":1511.843,"body":"this would be we successfully deployed"},{"startTime":1507.753,"endTime":1511.843,"body":"our software in some kind of beta phase."},{"startTime":1512.283,"endTime":1517.213,"body":"And now we're going to open our software"},{"startTime":1512.283,"endTime":1517.213,"body":"to GA and we expect that 10 times the"},{"startTime":1517.213,"endTime":1518.623,"body":"number of people are going to sign up."},{"startTime":1519.023,"endTime":1519.443,"body":"Right?"},{"startTime":1520.003,"endTime":1522.613,"body":"Or a hundred times the number"},{"startTime":1520.003,"endTime":1522.613,"body":"of people are going to sign up."},{"startTime":1522.853,"endTime":1523.633,"body":"Whatever, I don't know."},{"startTime":1523.933,"endTime":1528.783,"body":"The software works and the technical"},{"startTime":1523.933,"endTime":1528.783,"body":"team wants to, they want to do"},{"startTime":1528.783,"endTime":1531.523,"body":"tests, they want to do this, they"},{"startTime":1528.783,"endTime":1531.523,"body":"want to do that, that kind of stuff."},{"startTime":1531.823,"endTime":1534.853,"body":"These technical impediments that"},{"startTime":1531.823,"endTime":1534.853,"body":"say, Hey, before you load a hundred"},{"startTime":1534.863,"endTime":1539.403,"body":"X users in the system, like we need"},{"startTime":1534.863,"endTime":1539.403,"body":"to do a certain amount of work on"},{"startTime":1539.403,"endTime":1542.833,"body":"the, on the backend to make sure"},{"startTime":1539.403,"endTime":1542.833,"body":"the backend works actually works."},{"startTime":1543.053,"endTime":1545.643,"body":"We're going to load test the backend"},{"startTime":1543.053,"endTime":1545.643,"body":"and, and do that kind of stuff."},{"startTime":1546.153,"endTime":1550.163,"body":"Even a lot of tech teams"},{"startTime":1546.153,"endTime":1550.163,"body":"compromise on this point."},{"startTime":1550.203,"endTime":1553.153,"body":"It's like, well, we'll, we'll just kind"},{"startTime":1550.203,"endTime":1553.153,"body":"of deal with that as you know, we're"},{"startTime":1553.153,"endTime":1554.483,"body":"not gonna spend that much time testing."},{"startTime":1554.963,"endTime":1558.953,"body":"You know, but, the technical"},{"startTime":1554.963,"endTime":1558.953,"body":"impediment here it's not real"},{"startTime":1558.973,"endTime":1560.173,"body":"alluring to the business."},{"startTime":1560.683,"endTime":1566.043,"body":"So, this, this roadblock of we"},{"startTime":1560.683,"endTime":1566.043,"body":"can't do X business function until"},{"startTime":1566.043,"endTime":1568.658,"body":"we do zed technical function."},{"startTime":1568.948,"endTime":1571.938,"body":"This was a difficult one for people"},{"startTime":1568.948,"endTime":1571.938,"body":"to grapple with because there's"},{"startTime":1571.938,"endTime":1575.818,"body":"not, I mean, there's not a lot of"},{"startTime":1571.938,"endTime":1575.818,"body":"like, you must do this or else."},{"startTime":1576.763,"endTime":1579.523,"body":"Type of things it's just"},{"startTime":1576.763,"endTime":1579.523,"body":"like well, it can't scale."},{"startTime":1579.693,"endTime":1583.563,"body":"Well, do we need to scale and"},{"startTime":1579.693,"endTime":1583.563,"body":"it's not it's not in compliance"},{"startTime":1583.613,"endTime":1584.843,"body":"Well, do we need to be complying?"},{"startTime":1585.633,"endTime":1588.563,"body":"It's not super secure Well,"},{"startTime":1585.633,"endTime":1588.563,"body":"how many incidents have we had?"},{"startTime":1588.863,"endTime":1591.393,"body":"You know, this is a"},{"startTime":1588.863,"endTime":1591.393,"body":"difficult one for people."},{"startTime":1591.393,"endTime":1596.713,"body":"I think this is this is one where this"},{"startTime":1591.393,"endTime":1596.713,"body":"is This area generally with all of those"},{"startTime":1596.713,"endTime":1601.283,"body":"examples is one where you need to know"},{"startTime":1596.713,"endTime":1601.283,"body":"what the market's going to do, right?"},{"startTime":1601.313,"endTime":1603.583,"body":"It's not a technical thing necessarily."},{"startTime":1603.723,"endTime":1608.663,"body":"Based on input from the market,"},{"startTime":1603.723,"endTime":1608.663,"body":"you can figure out the technology."},{"startTime":1608.663,"endTime":1612.563,"body":"Work with your, your, your tech folks"},{"startTime":1608.663,"endTime":1612.563,"body":"and say, well, do we need to scale?"},{"startTime":1612.583,"endTime":1613.563,"body":"Let's just use that."},{"startTime":1614.093,"endTime":1615.653,"body":"And if the answer is no, that's fine."},{"startTime":1615.713,"endTime":1616.523,"body":"Move on, right?"},{"startTime":1616.793,"endTime":1619.723,"body":"But if the answer is yes, then what"},{"startTime":1616.793,"endTime":1619.723,"body":"kind of scaling are we looking at?"},{"startTime":1619.723,"endTime":1621.563,"body":"Vertical, horizontal scaling, right?"},{"startTime":1621.613,"endTime":1621.803,"body":"Right."},{"startTime":1622.373,"endTime":1623.028,"body":"And then so."},{"startTime":1623.158,"endTime":1623.618,"body":"On and on."},{"startTime":1623.618,"endTime":1630.178,"body":"So these discussions with your tech folks"},{"startTime":1623.618,"endTime":1630.178,"body":"will lead to a solution, basically, for"},{"startTime":1630.178,"endTime":1632.468,"body":"this issues in my example of scaling."},{"startTime":1633.128,"endTime":1636.148,"body":"But those dialogue, those"},{"startTime":1633.128,"endTime":1636.148,"body":"dialogues have to happen."},{"startTime":1636.168,"endTime":1639.488,"body":"And then they have to happen with the"},{"startTime":1636.168,"endTime":1639.488,"body":"right people with the right inputs, right?"},{"startTime":1639.528,"endTime":1641.708,"body":"My example, the input was"},{"startTime":1639.528,"endTime":1641.708,"body":"what does the market want?"},{"startTime":1642.423,"endTime":1646.443,"body":"Uh, and if you don't know that, then"},{"startTime":1642.423,"endTime":1646.443,"body":"you shouldn't be tackling this problem."},{"startTime":1646.443,"endTime":1647.963,"body":"You should be figuring that out."},{"startTime":1647.973,"endTime":1648.963,"body":"You should be testing the market."},{"startTime":1649.133,"endTime":1649.533,"body":"That's right."},{"startTime":1649.553,"endTime":1650.273,"body":"Exactly."},{"startTime":1650.823,"endTime":1651.003,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":1651.003,"endTime":1654.083,"body":"I go back to that one a lot and it"},{"startTime":1651.003,"endTime":1654.083,"body":"falls on deaf ears a lot because,"},{"startTime":1654.863,"endTime":1655.583,"body":"people don't want to hear it."},{"startTime":1655.593,"endTime":1656.883,"body":"Cause there's a rush to go to market."},{"startTime":1656.923,"endTime":1657.293,"body":"You're right."},{"startTime":1657.313,"endTime":1657.723,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":1657.783,"endTime":1659.033,"body":"Yeah, that's exactly right."},{"startTime":1659.333,"endTime":1662.913,"body":"The, the last item that we, sorry, I"},{"startTime":1659.333,"endTime":1662.913,"body":"don't, I didn't mean to cut off that one."},{"startTime":1662.913,"endTime":1664.543,"body":"I was like, I don't want"},{"startTime":1662.913,"endTime":1664.543,"body":"to talk about that anymore."},{"startTime":1664.813,"endTime":1668.143,"body":"I do want to talk about like"},{"startTime":1664.813,"endTime":1668.143,"body":"team comms between teams."},{"startTime":1668.443,"endTime":1671.113,"body":"not being able to deal with blockers"},{"startTime":1668.443,"endTime":1671.113,"body":"and impediments like it because you"},{"startTime":1671.113,"endTime":1675.843,"body":"don't have a deep maturity in the"},{"startTime":1671.113,"endTime":1675.843,"body":"way that teams talk to other teams."},{"startTime":1676.173,"endTime":1679.063,"body":"Like the team topologies podcast"},{"startTime":1676.173,"endTime":1679.063,"body":"is probably the best cause they"},{"startTime":1679.063,"endTime":1683.023,"body":"outlined four ways that teams"},{"startTime":1679.063,"endTime":1683.023,"body":"communicate with other teams."},{"startTime":1683.323,"endTime":1687.123,"body":"I mean like the, the best way"},{"startTime":1683.323,"endTime":1687.123,"body":"is that you are like when you're"},{"startTime":1687.133,"endTime":1688.923,"body":"having refinements, you have."},{"startTime":1689.483,"endTime":1694.993,"body":"Team leads or members of enabling teams"},{"startTime":1689.483,"endTime":1694.993,"body":"or members of stakeholder teams to your"},{"startTime":1694.993,"endTime":1698.923,"body":"team Plugged into your refinement schedule"},{"startTime":1694.993,"endTime":1698.923,"body":"so they can come to your refinements"},{"startTime":1698.953,"endTime":1702.413,"body":"and see what you're about to work on"},{"startTime":1698.953,"endTime":1702.413,"body":"See what you're planning to work on and"},{"startTime":1702.413,"endTime":1706.303,"body":"they can help you You know plug in and"},{"startTime":1702.413,"endTime":1706.303,"body":"go to the refinements of other teams."},{"startTime":1706.353,"endTime":1710.483,"body":"That's a stream-aligned team working"},{"startTime":1706.353,"endTime":1710.483,"body":"with another stream-aligned team with"},{"startTime":1710.483,"endTime":1716.513,"body":"the assistance of facilitation assistance"},{"startTime":1710.483,"endTime":1716.513,"body":"Of an enabling team, which is good."},{"startTime":1716.813,"endTime":1719.753,"body":"It's much better than waiting for"},{"startTime":1716.813,"endTime":1719.753,"body":"another team to build something for you."},{"startTime":1719.773,"endTime":1720.113,"body":"Sure."},{"startTime":1720.173,"endTime":1722.053,"body":"Ever like definitely"},{"startTime":1720.173,"endTime":1722.053,"body":"much better than that."},{"startTime":1722.333,"endTime":1724.913,"body":"But the, but the, how often do we meet?"},{"startTime":1725.043,"endTime":1726.673,"body":"How do we know that we need to meet?"},{"startTime":1726.883,"endTime":1727.193,"body":"You know what I mean?"},{"startTime":1727.213,"endTime":1728.593,"body":"Is it just something"},{"startTime":1727.213,"endTime":1728.593,"body":"we put on the calendar?"},{"startTime":1728.593,"endTime":1729.823,"body":"If we don't need it, we cancel it."},{"startTime":1729.823,"endTime":1730.223,"body":"That kind of stuff."},{"startTime":1730.818,"endTime":1735.248,"body":"This is this is like the nitty gritty"},{"startTime":1730.818,"endTime":1735.248,"body":"of this is where teams struggle of"},{"startTime":1735.258,"endTime":1737.528,"body":"like, oh, there's a lot of meetings"},{"startTime":1737.568,"endTime":1742.178,"body":"when I tell people that want to start"},{"startTime":1737.568,"endTime":1742.178,"body":"this is the glue that binds these teams"},{"startTime":1742.178,"endTime":1745.478,"body":"together that is this is the early"},{"startTime":1742.178,"endTime":1745.478,"body":"warning sign that you need to talk"},{"startTime":1745.718,"endTime":1751.823,"body":"is The team leads that float between"},{"startTime":1745.718,"endTime":1751.823,"body":"teams, they can do this job, assuming"},{"startTime":1751.823,"endTime":1754.603,"body":"they don't have 15 teams, right, right."},{"startTime":1754.603,"endTime":1754.853,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":1754.853,"endTime":1758.353,"body":"So Skelton and Pias were onto something"},{"startTime":1754.853,"endTime":1758.353,"body":"with the Team Topologies is obviously,"},{"startTime":1759.133,"endTime":1760.953,"body":"that's the fluidity I was talking about."},{"startTime":1760.953,"endTime":1761.173,"body":"Right."},{"startTime":1761.173,"endTime":1762.083,"body":"So we need that."},{"startTime":1762.143,"endTime":1766.148,"body":"We need those that have some"},{"startTime":1762.143,"endTime":1766.148,"body":"knowledge of what this issue is."},{"startTime":1766.538,"endTime":1770.198,"body":"to go talk to those dependent teams,"},{"startTime":1766.538,"endTime":1770.198,"body":"teams upon which they're dependent."},{"startTime":1770.498,"endTime":1776.158,"body":"And unfortunately, this notion"},{"startTime":1770.498,"endTime":1776.158,"body":"of working in teams kind of puts"},{"startTime":1776.218,"endTime":1778.488,"body":"a silo around people, right?"},{"startTime":1778.888,"endTime":1781.408,"body":"Team A has these eight"},{"startTime":1778.888,"endTime":1781.408,"body":"team members, let's say."},{"startTime":1781.828,"endTime":1783.168,"body":"Team B has these other ones."},{"startTime":1783.198,"endTime":1785.278,"body":"And they pretty much work in their teams."},{"startTime":1785.628,"endTime":1789.678,"body":"So when there's some kind of an"},{"startTime":1785.628,"endTime":1789.678,"body":"impediment or a blocker, typically"},{"startTime":1789.698,"endTime":1792.738,"body":"the knee jerk reaction is, put"},{"startTime":1789.698,"endTime":1792.738,"body":"that on the board, we'll move on."},{"startTime":1793.168,"endTime":1796.938,"body":"And any, anytime somebody asks me about"},{"startTime":1793.168,"endTime":1796.938,"body":"my work, I'm going to say I'm blocked."},{"startTime":1796.978,"endTime":1797.338,"body":"You're blocked."},{"startTime":1797.678,"endTime":1797.998,"body":"Right?"},{"startTime":1798.338,"endTime":1802.298,"body":"And then that's, that's the behavior"},{"startTime":1798.338,"endTime":1802.298,"body":"that I think savvy scrum masters"},{"startTime":1802.298,"endTime":1803.718,"body":"can actually try and influence."},{"startTime":1803.968,"endTime":1807.748,"body":"They're the ones that can come up with"},{"startTime":1803.968,"endTime":1807.748,"body":"a way that sits well with the teams."},{"startTime":1808.093,"endTime":1811.383,"body":"To say, well, we're not gonna have these"},{"startTime":1808.093,"endTime":1811.383,"body":"extra meetings unless they're called"},{"startTime":1811.413,"endTime":1815.673,"body":"for what if a meeting is called for,"},{"startTime":1811.413,"endTime":1815.673,"body":"we'll have an ad hoc meeting, right?"},{"startTime":1815.703,"endTime":1818.873,"body":"Because you're not gonna have the"},{"startTime":1815.703,"endTime":1818.873,"body":"same impediments or same type,"},{"startTime":1818.873,"endTime":1821.333,"body":"even same number sprint on sprint."},{"startTime":1821.583,"endTime":1824.583,"body":"So when you do have one,"},{"startTime":1821.583,"endTime":1824.583,"body":"get the team in the mode of"},{"startTime":1824.583,"endTime":1825.823,"body":"thinking that we need to huddle."},{"startTime":1826.093,"endTime":1828.453,"body":"We need to get, it's like,"},{"startTime":1826.093,"endTime":1828.453,"body":"it's like seeing a fire."},{"startTime":1828.613,"endTime":1831.173,"body":"You don't say, well, it's just"},{"startTime":1828.613,"endTime":1831.173,"body":"a little ember smoldering away."},{"startTime":1831.173,"endTime":1831.403,"body":"Right."},{"startTime":1831.433,"endTime":1833.883,"body":"I'll get to it when it"},{"startTime":1831.433,"endTime":1833.883,"body":"becomes a big flaring fire."},{"startTime":1833.923,"endTime":1834.623,"body":"That's interesting."},{"startTime":1834.623,"endTime":1838.723,"body":"So, so would you suggest if we"},{"startTime":1834.623,"endTime":1838.723,"body":"don't have a regular cadence."},{"startTime":1839.268,"endTime":1843.648,"body":"Of ongoing, basically sessions to knock"},{"startTime":1839.268,"endTime":1843.648,"body":"down dependencies and stuff like that."},{"startTime":1843.878,"endTime":1847.098,"body":"Like some kind of like, scaled"},{"startTime":1843.878,"endTime":1847.098,"body":"refinement between teams."},{"startTime":1847.098,"endTime":1849.508,"body":"And we don't have something like"},{"startTime":1847.098,"endTime":1849.508,"body":"that on the calendar, which I"},{"startTime":1849.508,"endTime":1851.598,"body":"can't think of an organization"},{"startTime":1849.508,"endTime":1851.598,"body":"I've ever been in that actually"},{"startTime":1851.598,"endTime":1853.418,"body":"does have a scaled refinement yet."},{"startTime":1854.188,"endTime":1859.858,"body":"Would you think that the minute that a"},{"startTime":1854.188,"endTime":1859.858,"body":"blocker comes up, or the, the, the, the,"},{"startTime":1859.858,"endTime":1866.158,"body":"the minute that something gets marked as"},{"startTime":1859.858,"endTime":1866.158,"body":"blocked in a, in a backlog, that signals"},{"startTime":1866.158,"endTime":1871.588,"body":"to a, I don't know, a team lead or product"},{"startTime":1866.158,"endTime":1871.588,"body":"manager or somebody somewhere like a"},{"startTime":1871.588,"endTime":1878.608,"body":"signal is sent somewhere that now we need"},{"startTime":1871.588,"endTime":1878.608,"body":"a cross team session to deal with this."},{"startTime":1878.708,"endTime":1879.488,"body":"Yeah, absolutely."},{"startTime":1879.488,"endTime":1882.848,"body":"So if a developer is working"},{"startTime":1879.488,"endTime":1882.848,"body":"on something they, they may put"},{"startTime":1882.848,"endTime":1884.018,"body":"their name on it or whatever."},{"startTime":1884.078,"endTime":1884.258,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":1884.288,"endTime":1885.428,"body":"And then they get blocked."},{"startTime":1885.548,"endTime":1885.878,"body":"Right."},{"startTime":1885.878,"endTime":1888.038,"body":"Or they, they're about to get"},{"startTime":1885.878,"endTime":1888.038,"body":"blocked, whatever it might be."},{"startTime":1888.038,"endTime":1888.188,"body":"Right."},{"startTime":1889.118,"endTime":1893.708,"body":"I'd really like that developer to say,"},{"startTime":1889.118,"endTime":1893.708,"body":"okay, at mention the tech, tech lead."},{"startTime":1893.738,"endTime":1893.888,"body":"Mm-hmm."},{"startTime":1894.128,"endTime":1896.888,"body":"assign that thing to the tech lead"},{"startTime":1894.128,"endTime":1896.888,"body":"and say, Hey listen, we need to have"},{"startTime":1896.888,"endTime":1899.078,"body":"a discussion with this other team."},{"startTime":1899.198,"endTime":1899.318,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":1899.348,"endTime":1900.938,"body":"The tech lead can initially maybe just."},{"startTime":1901.603,"endTime":1903.683,"body":"Talk to the tech lead of the other team."},{"startTime":1903.683,"endTime":1905.503,"body":"And maybe that gets resolved there."},{"startTime":1905.873,"endTime":1910.683,"body":"If it doesn't, and it calls for a few"},{"startTime":1905.873,"endTime":1910.683,"body":"developers to jump in, then the tech"},{"startTime":1910.683,"endTime":1914.403,"body":"lead can bring in one or two or three,"},{"startTime":1910.683,"endTime":1914.403,"body":"however many are needed from their team."},{"startTime":1914.453,"endTime":1917.033,"body":"And the other team tech"},{"startTime":1914.453,"endTime":1917.033,"body":"lead does the same thing."},{"startTime":1917.323,"endTime":1919.553,"body":"Now you have an impromptu"},{"startTime":1917.323,"endTime":1919.553,"body":"meeting to hash it out."},{"startTime":1919.913,"endTime":1920.163,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":1920.163,"endTime":1923.273,"body":"That, like that's a really"},{"startTime":1920.163,"endTime":1923.273,"body":"interesting suggestion."},{"startTime":1923.373,"endTime":1927.423,"body":"Because, if you're using, I"},{"startTime":1923.373,"endTime":1927.423,"body":"mean, if you're using an ALM"},{"startTime":1927.433,"endTime":1929.253,"body":"tool, it could be any ALM tool."},{"startTime":1929.443,"endTime":1929.703,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":1929.793,"endTime":1931.683,"body":"It could even be JIRA."},{"startTime":1931.683,"endTime":1931.713,"body":"Whack!"},{"startTime":1931.81,"endTime":1936.33,"body":"If you're using a system like that,"},{"startTime":1931.81,"endTime":1936.33,"body":"you can make automation rules that says"},{"startTime":1936.54,"endTime":1943.025,"body":"when a work item for this, product,"},{"startTime":1936.54,"endTime":1943.025,"body":"Jira says project because Jira is"},{"startTime":1943.025,"endTime":1948.465,"body":"terrible, but when a work item for this"},{"startTime":1943.025,"endTime":1948.465,"body":"product goes into blocked, Automatically"},{"startTime":1948.465,"endTime":1950.825,"body":"change the assignee to the team lead."},{"startTime":1950.835,"endTime":1953.705,"body":"You can specify a value, change"},{"startTime":1950.835,"endTime":1953.705,"body":"the assignee to a team lead."},{"startTime":1954.185,"endTime":1958.355,"body":"And, and they'll get a notification that"},{"startTime":1954.185,"endTime":1958.355,"body":"they've been assigned a work item in,"},{"startTime":1958.365,"endTime":1961.895,"body":"in JIRA, which they should know is not."},{"startTime":1962.17,"endTime":1966.78,"body":"Normal and then they should automatically"},{"startTime":1962.17,"endTime":1966.78,"body":"or automatically depending they"},{"startTime":1966.78,"endTime":1970.53,"body":"should go in and look at the item and"},{"startTime":1966.78,"endTime":1970.53,"body":"see like hey What are the comments?"},{"startTime":1970.59,"endTime":1971.53,"body":"Why was it assigned to me?"},{"startTime":1971.71,"endTime":1975.056,"body":"And if there's no comments, they"},{"startTime":1971.71,"endTime":1975.056,"body":"should be able to say like Hey"},{"startTime":1975.356,"endTime":1977.166,"body":"team What's going on with this?"},{"startTime":1977.716,"endTime":1980.876,"body":"If it's all their teams And"},{"startTime":1977.716,"endTime":1980.876,"body":"there's only one team lead."},{"startTime":1981.266,"endTime":1985.326,"body":"It should be simple for them To set up a"},{"startTime":1981.266,"endTime":1985.326,"body":"go, let me go to your stand up, let me go"},{"startTime":1985.326,"endTime":1989.276,"body":"to your stand up, let me talk about who's"},{"startTime":1985.326,"endTime":1989.276,"body":"got time, let me set up the next, look"},{"startTime":1989.276,"endTime":1990.626,"body":"at the calendar, set up the next time."},{"startTime":1991.166,"endTime":1995.796,"body":"If it's this team lead and they, and"},{"startTime":1991.166,"endTime":1995.796,"body":"they already are being identified"},{"startTime":1995.796,"endTime":1999.656,"body":"that they need another team lead,"},{"startTime":1995.796,"endTime":1999.656,"body":"they can talk to another person."},{"startTime":1999.656,"endTime":2003.496,"body":"So like, in all these scenarios,"},{"startTime":1999.656,"endTime":2003.496,"body":"they're, they're talking to one"},{"startTime":2003.656,"endTime":2006.386,"body":"extra person, which is kind of nice."},{"startTime":2006.396,"endTime":2008.436,"body":"They're talking to one extra"},{"startTime":2006.396,"endTime":2008.436,"body":"person, figuring out what the"},{"startTime":2008.436,"endTime":2011.936,"body":"blocker is immediately within"},{"startTime":2008.436,"endTime":2011.936,"body":"the same day, basically."},{"startTime":2012.821,"endTime":2016.031,"body":"Have something set up and"},{"startTime":2012.821,"endTime":2016.031,"body":"have a plan to tackle it."},{"startTime":2016.031,"endTime":2019.961,"body":"And that's really all that management is"},{"startTime":2016.031,"endTime":2019.961,"body":"going to ask for is, is tell me that you"},{"startTime":2019.961,"endTime":2022.291,"body":"have a plan for making things better."},{"startTime":2022.851,"endTime":2023.131,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":2023.131,"endTime":2028.921,"body":"So, I mean, definitely agree with that,"},{"startTime":2023.131,"endTime":2028.921,"body":"at the daily team sync, stand up is when"},{"startTime":2028.931,"endTime":2033.531,"body":"this thing can be discussed and the tech"},{"startTime":2028.931,"endTime":2033.531,"body":"lead for that team can come out of there."},{"startTime":2034.181,"endTime":2036.961,"body":"Right after the 16th minute,"},{"startTime":2034.181,"endTime":2036.961,"body":"they can contact the other"},{"startTime":2036.961,"endTime":2038.381,"body":"tech lead and on it goes."},{"startTime":2038.621,"endTime":2043.401,"body":"Now, if you have a lot of teams and"},{"startTime":2038.621,"endTime":2043.401,"body":"it's a big program, let's say, and,"},{"startTime":2043.441,"endTime":2047.171,"body":"and these areas that the teams are"},{"startTime":2043.441,"endTime":2047.171,"body":"working on are really closely related,"},{"startTime":2047.801,"endTime":2050.771,"body":"you could create a distribution"},{"startTime":2047.801,"endTime":2050.771,"body":"list consisting of the tech leads."},{"startTime":2051.451,"endTime":2055.731,"body":"In that case, the, the developer has"},{"startTime":2051.451,"endTime":2055.731,"body":"to be a little more astute by not just"},{"startTime":2055.741,"endTime":2057.191,"body":"putting in the distribution lists."},{"startTime":2057.486,"endTime":2061.996,"body":"Email address, but also put in that"},{"startTime":2057.486,"endTime":2061.996,"body":"Fred needs to talk to Mary about this."},{"startTime":2062.026,"endTime":2063.176,"body":"And that's just their suggestion."},{"startTime":2063.186,"endTime":2065.246,"body":"Fred could look at that and say,"},{"startTime":2063.186,"endTime":2065.246,"body":"Mary is not the right person."},{"startTime":2065.276,"endTime":2070.666,"body":"Yeah, it's, Ted over here or whatever, but"},{"startTime":2065.276,"endTime":2070.666,"body":"you can move things along quickly, right?"},{"startTime":2070.706,"endTime":2074.346,"body":"Within a few hours after that"},{"startTime":2070.706,"endTime":2074.346,"body":"standup, things should be able to"},{"startTime":2074.346,"endTime":2077.981,"body":"get to a point where the discussions"},{"startTime":2074.346,"endTime":2077.981,"body":"are already happening that day."},{"startTime":2078.281,"endTime":2081.521,"body":"So scrum scale has that, the"},{"startTime":2078.281,"endTime":2081.521,"body":"scrum of scrums, it should happen"},{"startTime":2081.521,"endTime":2083.261,"body":"immediately after the daily scrum."},{"startTime":2083.291,"endTime":2084.051,"body":"Well, guess what?"},{"startTime":2084.121,"endTime":2086.271,"body":"That's the perfect thing to talk"},{"startTime":2084.121,"endTime":2086.271,"body":"about it, the scrum of scrums."},{"startTime":2086.341,"endTime":2089.791,"body":"Yeah, well, I mean, if you don't have"},{"startTime":2086.341,"endTime":2089.791,"body":"that, or if you don't have, I mean,"},{"startTime":2089.921,"endTime":2092.371,"body":"let's just say if you don't have team"},{"startTime":2089.921,"endTime":2092.371,"body":"leads at all, you know what I mean?"},{"startTime":2092.631,"endTime":2094.181,"body":"Um, you probably have lead developers."},{"startTime":2094.181,"endTime":2096.351,"body":"You probably have a"},{"startTime":2094.181,"endTime":2096.351,"body":"director of development."},{"startTime":2096.351,"endTime":2097.751,"body":"It's like somebody."},{"startTime":2098.076,"endTime":2101.966,"body":"Could fill in, in, in this, in this"},{"startTime":2098.076,"endTime":2101.966,"body":"kind of discussion where we've gone."},{"startTime":2102.516,"endTime":2103.866,"body":"Somebody could fill in for that role."},{"startTime":2104.076,"endTime":2107.556,"body":"If you don't have, team leads, if you"},{"startTime":2104.076,"endTime":2107.556,"body":"don't have these people, guess what?"},{"startTime":2107.556,"endTime":2110.166,"body":"The developer can be empowered"},{"startTime":2107.556,"endTime":2110.166,"body":"to do the same thing, right?"},{"startTime":2110.186,"endTime":2112.146,"body":"They can say, well, I think"},{"startTime":2110.186,"endTime":2112.146,"body":"I need to talk to that team."},{"startTime":2113.036,"endTime":2115.286,"body":"Pick a developer on that team"},{"startTime":2113.036,"endTime":2115.286,"body":"that you believe you need to"},{"startTime":2115.286,"endTime":2116.676,"body":"talk to, reach out to them."},{"startTime":2116.686,"endTime":2118.686,"body":"Worst that can happen is"},{"startTime":2116.686,"endTime":2118.686,"body":"they'll say, that's not me,"},{"startTime":2118.686,"endTime":2119.686,"body":"that's this person over here."},{"startTime":2119.696,"endTime":2119.966,"body":"Well, you'll..."},{"startTime":2120.076,"endTime":2120.546,"body":"Move on."},{"startTime":2120.556,"endTime":2122.926,"body":"You mostly, even if you,"},{"startTime":2120.556,"endTime":2122.926,"body":"again, even if you don't have"},{"startTime":2122.926,"endTime":2125.276,"body":"scrum masters, team leads..."},{"startTime":2125.681,"endTime":2129.031,"body":"Senior developers, whatever, like"},{"startTime":2125.681,"endTime":2129.031,"body":"you probably have a senior developer."},{"startTime":2129.181,"endTime":2129.591,"body":"Right."},{"startTime":2129.921,"endTime":2132.871,"body":"If you don't have a director"},{"startTime":2129.921,"endTime":2132.871,"body":"of development or a manager of"},{"startTime":2132.871,"endTime":2134.501,"body":"development, a manager of development."},{"startTime":2134.501,"endTime":2134.941,"body":"Probably do."},{"startTime":2134.941,"endTime":2137.691,"body":"Regardless of all the other layers of"},{"startTime":2134.941,"endTime":2137.691,"body":"bureaucracy, you probably have a manager."},{"startTime":2137.991,"endTime":2138.311,"body":"Right."},{"startTime":2138.341,"endTime":2138.601,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":2139.041,"endTime":2140.231,"body":"So you have to have one."},{"startTime":2140.531,"endTime":2141.071,"body":"So there you go."},{"startTime":2141.361,"endTime":2141.721,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":2142.051,"endTime":2145.651,"body":"We found the one person that's"},{"startTime":2142.051,"endTime":2145.651,"body":"going to exist in all multiverses."},{"startTime":2146.421,"endTime":2149.301,"body":"well, that's our, that's our"},{"startTime":2146.421,"endTime":2149.301,"body":"podcast on blockers and impediments."},{"startTime":2149.501,"endTime":2149.831,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":2149.841,"endTime":2153.161,"body":"So yeah, that's not what you"},{"startTime":2149.841,"endTime":2153.161,"body":"think, on this whole topic."},{"startTime":2153.161,"endTime":2156.311,"body":"And, don't forget to like and"},{"startTime":2153.161,"endTime":2156.311,"body":"subscribe, smash that like"},{"startTime":2156.311,"endTime":2158.201,"body":"button somewhere down there."},{"startTime":2158.501,"endTime":2159.401,"body":"I don't know where the like button"}]}