{"version":"1.0.0","segments":[{"startTime":0.05,"endTime":0.64,"body":"Anyway."},{"startTime":0.765,"endTime":3.515,"body":"All right, here at Brian and Om's"},{"startTime":0.765,"endTime":3.515,"body":"software development company,"},{"startTime":3.555,"endTime":4.935,"body":"everything is priority one."},{"startTime":4.945,"endTime":7.725,"body":"Everything all the time is priority one."},{"startTime":7.735,"endTime":8.395,"body":"Of course."},{"startTime":8.425,"endTime":10.875,"body":"Who wants to prioritize when we"},{"startTime":8.425,"endTime":10.875,"body":"can have everything right now?"},{"startTime":11.095,"endTime":15.075,"body":"Everything is a burning must"},{"startTime":11.095,"endTime":15.075,"body":"have right now scenario."},{"startTime":15.305,"endTime":16.144,"body":"Priority one."},{"startTime":16.355,"endTime":17.464,"body":"Keep listening to the podcast."},{"startTime":17.494,"endTime":20.785,"body":"If this sounds like your organization,"},{"startTime":17.494,"endTime":20.785,"body":"I'm sure people can relate to this."},{"startTime":20.785,"endTime":23.325,"body":"I'm sure everybody's come across"},{"startTime":20.785,"endTime":23.325,"body":"this where people just say."},{"startTime":23.475,"endTime":24.605,"body":"Yeah, that's priority one."},{"startTime":24.605,"endTime":25.885,"body":"So is this, so is that, right?"},{"startTime":25.895,"endTime":26.815,"body":"Everything's priority one."},{"startTime":26.865,"endTime":28.335,"body":"So, that's this podcast."},{"startTime":28.395,"endTime":28.915,"body":"That's right."},{"startTime":28.975,"endTime":30.085,"body":"Alright, hit the music."},{"startTime":30.235,"endTime":30.735,"body":"Oh, there's not."},{"startTime":30.885,"endTime":31.625,"body":"There's still no music."},{"startTime":31.635,"endTime":33.055,"body":"Musicians didn't turn up today."},{"startTime":33.064,"endTime":34.204,"body":"We should have music."},{"startTime":34.255,"endTime":38.804,"body":"If we're going down the road of everything"},{"startTime":34.255,"endTime":38.804,"body":"is priority one all the time, the first"},{"startTime":38.804,"endTime":45.004,"body":"thing I expect people to have real world"},{"startTime":38.804,"endTime":45.004,"body":"experience in is being in a company"},{"startTime":45.194,"endTime":50.204,"body":"where people leave And they don't replace"},{"startTime":45.194,"endTime":50.204,"body":"them and the people that stay with the"},{"startTime":50.225,"endTime":54.655,"body":"company, as they don't replace employees,"},{"startTime":50.225,"endTime":54.655,"body":"they do more and more and more work."},{"startTime":54.805,"endTime":56.995,"body":"Yeah, they just get more hats to wear."},{"startTime":57.145,"endTime":58.404,"body":"That's often what I hear."},{"startTime":58.424,"endTime":61.045,"body":"I got another hat I'm gonna wear tomorrow."},{"startTime":61.195,"endTime":65.925,"body":"I'm trying hard to recall a time when,"},{"startTime":61.195,"endTime":65.925,"body":"everybody had only one thing, right?"},{"startTime":66.075,"endTime":69.175,"body":"I can always remember everybody"},{"startTime":66.075,"endTime":69.175,"body":"had more than one thing to do."},{"startTime":69.25,"endTime":73.32,"body":"I know I did in my early career as doing"},{"startTime":69.25,"endTime":73.32,"body":"multiple things and not necessarily"},{"startTime":73.32,"endTime":75.15,"body":"doing any of them all that well."},{"startTime":75.46,"endTime":77.599,"body":"But that's just the nature of it."},{"startTime":77.749,"endTime":82.179,"body":"You pay for, you pay for, distributed"},{"startTime":77.749,"endTime":82.179,"body":"attention spans and time slicing"},{"startTime":82.179,"endTime":83.129,"body":"and all of that good stuff."},{"startTime":83.279,"endTime":85.409,"body":"Um, but I, I want to go"},{"startTime":83.279,"endTime":85.409,"body":"back to what you just said."},{"startTime":85.489,"endTime":89.939,"body":"Um, sometimes it's not the culture, but"},{"startTime":85.489,"endTime":89.939,"body":"most times it is the culture because"},{"startTime":90.019,"endTime":92.279,"body":"people flourish under a certain culture."},{"startTime":92.354,"endTime":95.564,"body":"It's like having a very"},{"startTime":92.354,"endTime":95.564,"body":"strong tide coming in."},{"startTime":95.714,"endTime":97.284,"body":"You can fight against it."},{"startTime":97.434,"endTime":101.005,"body":"You feel like you're making some"},{"startTime":97.434,"endTime":101.005,"body":"headway, but you really not, it's"},{"startTime":101.005,"endTime":103.015,"body":"just a momentary, gratification."},{"startTime":103.174,"endTime":107.605,"body":"For the purpose of this podcast, because"},{"startTime":103.174,"endTime":107.605,"body":"again, we could, we could talk the whole"},{"startTime":107.754,"endTime":115.509,"body":"podcast, on the topic of companies trying"},{"startTime":107.754,"endTime":115.509,"body":"to squeeze every ounce of quote resource."},{"startTime":115.659,"endTime":119.749,"body":"You know, every, every human resource"},{"startTime":115.659,"endTime":119.749,"body":"that they can just trying to wring that"},{"startTime":119.749,"endTime":121.499,"body":"rag out and try to get every drop out."},{"startTime":121.639,"endTime":122.639,"body":"this before though, right?"},{"startTime":122.659,"endTime":124.619,"body":"Utilization and all that."},{"startTime":124.62,"endTime":124.834,"body":"Yeah, yeah."},{"startTime":124.834,"endTime":126.169,"body":"You got to be over 80%."},{"startTime":126.319,"endTime":127.929,"body":"Yeah, I don't want to, I"},{"startTime":126.319,"endTime":127.929,"body":"don't want to talk about that."},{"startTime":128.019,"endTime":128.809,"body":"No, that's not this podcast."},{"startTime":128.809,"endTime":130.189,"body":"I don't want that to be this podcast."},{"startTime":130.19,"endTime":134.04,"body":"Let's talk about you feeling"},{"startTime":130.19,"endTime":134.04,"body":"like everything is priority one."},{"startTime":134.19,"endTime":137.24,"body":"Because of the most common reason."},{"startTime":137.24,"endTime":140.54,"body":"What I think the most common reason"},{"startTime":137.24,"endTime":140.54,"body":"why everything is priority one is"},{"startTime":140.54,"endTime":146.3,"body":"because product is not setting a"},{"startTime":140.54,"endTime":146.3,"body":"clear expectation of prioritization."},{"startTime":146.56,"endTime":148.95,"body":"Product is not stepping in, or"},{"startTime":146.56,"endTime":148.95,"body":"maybe you don't have product."},{"startTime":149.1,"endTime":152.98,"body":"And that's why it's not clear,"},{"startTime":149.1,"endTime":152.98,"body":"but, but, but their product is"},{"startTime":152.98,"endTime":155.47,"body":"not giving clear expectations."},{"startTime":155.62,"endTime":156.11,"body":"Absolutely."},{"startTime":156.11,"endTime":156.31,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":156.31,"endTime":160.04,"body":"I mean, so certainly if you have"},{"startTime":156.31,"endTime":160.04,"body":"no product, yeah, I mean, there's"},{"startTime":160.04,"endTime":162.87,"body":"other issues you have there,"},{"startTime":160.04,"endTime":162.87,"body":"but yeah, product not setting."},{"startTime":163.02,"endTime":169.76,"body":"Proper expectations, and also, even if,"},{"startTime":163.02,"endTime":169.76,"body":"even if they did, you have a culture where"},{"startTime":169.91,"endTime":173.4,"body":"people higher up can feel free to come in."},{"startTime":173.55,"endTime":174.66,"body":"These are seagull stakeholders."},{"startTime":174.67,"endTime":178.41,"body":"They come in, they hover over"},{"startTime":174.67,"endTime":178.41,"body":"your team, they poop everywhere,"},{"startTime":178.41,"endTime":179.92,"body":"steal their lunch and disappear."},{"startTime":180.05,"endTime":181.05,"body":"These are the people that say."},{"startTime":181.29,"endTime":181.93,"body":"What are you working on?"},{"startTime":181.95,"endTime":182.49,"body":"Oh, that's great."},{"startTime":182.51,"endTime":184.83,"body":"They don't really want to hear"},{"startTime":182.51,"endTime":184.83,"body":"about what you're working on."},{"startTime":185.15,"endTime":187.82,"body":"Uh, however, this is really important."},{"startTime":187.92,"endTime":189.87,"body":"I need you to work on this, Jim."},{"startTime":189.92,"endTime":191.75,"body":"I need, I need you to work on this, Janet."},{"startTime":191.98,"endTime":193.44,"body":"And then they disappear, right?"},{"startTime":193.74,"endTime":196.37,"body":"And before you've even had a"},{"startTime":193.74,"endTime":196.37,"body":"chance to kind of mull through"},{"startTime":196.37,"endTime":197.28,"body":"what they're talking about."},{"startTime":197.565,"endTime":200.895,"body":"But in comes another senior"},{"startTime":197.565,"endTime":200.895,"body":"leader and they do the same thing."},{"startTime":200.895,"endTime":205.075,"body":"So every leader is dumping on"},{"startTime":200.895,"endTime":205.075,"body":"you by saying, this is priority"},{"startTime":205.075,"endTime":206.425,"body":"one, you better do this now."},{"startTime":206.575,"endTime":207.945,"body":"That is a cultural thing."},{"startTime":207.955,"endTime":211.645,"body":"I've seen that in several organizations"},{"startTime":207.955,"endTime":211.645,"body":"where this happens, right?"},{"startTime":211.795,"endTime":216.165,"body":"And in that case, what is the"},{"startTime":211.795,"endTime":216.165,"body":"team member, whoever your role is,"},{"startTime":216.165,"endTime":219.345,"body":"what are you supposed to do when"},{"startTime":216.165,"endTime":219.345,"body":"someone says, this is priority one?"},{"startTime":219.495,"endTime":222.645,"body":"And another person says this is"},{"startTime":219.495,"endTime":222.645,"body":"priority one, sometimes it's the same"},{"startTime":222.645,"endTime":224.585,"body":"person, which is absolutely ridiculous."},{"startTime":224.585,"endTime":228.115,"body":"How can the same person say, two things"},{"startTime":224.585,"endTime":228.115,"body":"are priority one or multiple things"},{"startTime":228.115,"endTime":230.115,"body":"are priority one, but it does happen."},{"startTime":230.265,"endTime":234.385,"body":"So when that happens, what"},{"startTime":230.265,"endTime":234.385,"body":"is, what is a person to do?"},{"startTime":234.415,"endTime":239.165,"body":"Because you think about how you're"},{"startTime":234.415,"endTime":239.165,"body":"organizing things work wise,"},{"startTime":239.165,"endTime":240.985,"body":"let's say you have an ALM tool."},{"startTime":241.135,"endTime":242.785,"body":"Doesn't doesn't even"},{"startTime":241.135,"endTime":242.785,"body":"even have to be a tool."},{"startTime":242.835,"endTime":244.915,"body":"I mean, let's say you have a"},{"startTime":242.835,"endTime":244.915,"body":"bunch of stickies in a column."},{"startTime":245.175,"endTime":246.745,"body":"That's your that's your backlog."},{"startTime":246.895,"endTime":251.735,"body":"You have a sticky above another, and that"},{"startTime":246.895,"endTime":251.735,"body":"stickies above another is a ranked order"},{"startTime":251.745,"endTime":254.505,"body":"that you've prioritized based on whatever."},{"startTime":254.655,"endTime":254.945,"body":"Right?"},{"startTime":255.095,"endTime":259.655,"body":"But there's only one at the top and ALM"},{"startTime":255.095,"endTime":259.655,"body":"tools enforce this by nature, right?"},{"startTime":259.74,"endTime":262.59,"body":"The backlog only has one Or a one mm-hmm."},{"startTime":262.86,"endTime":263.15,"body":"item."},{"startTime":263.4,"endTime":263.75,"body":"Right?"},{"startTime":263.9,"endTime":266.57,"body":"And it's a sequence and there's"},{"startTime":263.9,"endTime":266.57,"body":"a reason for that, right?"},{"startTime":266.84,"endTime":270.59,"body":"However, in many companies,"},{"startTime":266.84,"endTime":270.59,"body":"many organizations, you are"},{"startTime":270.59,"endTime":272.99,"body":"asked to work on multiple ones."},{"startTime":273.14,"endTime":276.65,"body":"I've even seen organizations"},{"startTime":273.14,"endTime":276.65,"body":"that, or teams even, right?"},{"startTime":276.68,"endTime":281.66,"body":"These are, these are bad practices, but"},{"startTime":276.68,"endTime":281.66,"body":"teams will say, this is priority one A,"},{"startTime":281.81,"endTime":284.09,"body":"this is priority one B, this is one C."},{"startTime":284.27,"endTime":285.18,"body":"To me, that's 1, 2, 3."},{"startTime":285.33,"endTime":285.58,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":285.73,"endTime":286.03,"body":"Right."},{"startTime":286.06,"endTime":286.33,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":286.48,"endTime":291.435,"body":"Yeah, I don't, I can't really make an"},{"startTime":286.48,"endTime":291.435,"body":"excuse for why people would do that."},{"startTime":291.545,"endTime":294.63,"body":"I mean, like the the people actually"},{"startTime":291.545,"endTime":294.63,"body":"carrying out the work clearly"},{"startTime":294.63,"endTime":297.7,"body":"understand like, okay, when now we're"},{"startTime":294.63,"endTime":297.7,"body":"playing games with priority ones"},{"startTime":297.75,"endTime":301.44,"body":"the point that you had made earlier,"},{"startTime":297.75,"endTime":301.44,"body":"before we started the podcast was"},{"startTime":301.51,"endTime":306.47,"body":"when you, when product is not defining"},{"startTime":301.51,"endTime":306.47,"body":"the priorities or product is defined,"},{"startTime":306.49,"endTime":310.09,"body":"literally everything is priority"},{"startTime":306.49,"endTime":310.09,"body":"one, then, then basically product is"},{"startTime":310.09,"endTime":311.55,"body":"delegating to the development team."},{"startTime":311.7,"endTime":315.43,"body":"To say what the priorities are because"},{"startTime":311.7,"endTime":315.43,"body":"now the development team is going to"},{"startTime":315.43,"endTime":318.7,"body":"choose the order in which they pick"},{"startTime":315.43,"endTime":318.7,"body":"things up and you may or may not have"},{"startTime":318.84,"endTime":323.29,"body":"a choice in that and you may or may not"},{"startTime":318.84,"endTime":323.29,"body":"be happy about their choice and what"},{"startTime":323.29,"endTime":327.12,"body":"they pick up to work on next because"},{"startTime":323.29,"endTime":327.12,"body":"again, as, as like when I was on"},{"startTime":327.12,"endTime":329.46,"body":"development teams and I, I, and I was"},{"startTime":329.61,"endTime":330.87,"body":"Uh, how can I say this?"},{"startTime":330.95,"endTime":332.83,"body":"I was fed work by other teams."},{"startTime":332.98,"endTime":335.67,"body":"You know, other teams would send me"},{"startTime":332.98,"endTime":335.67,"body":"work and say, Hey, this is priority one."},{"startTime":335.745,"endTime":338.035,"body":"I don't know what was going on in"},{"startTime":335.745,"endTime":338.035,"body":"our world where we allowed other"},{"startTime":338.035,"endTime":339.325,"body":"people to set our priorities."},{"startTime":339.525,"endTime":342.575,"body":"However, we would receive"},{"startTime":339.525,"endTime":342.575,"body":"several priority ones at once."},{"startTime":342.725,"endTime":346.815,"body":"Um, we would look through them and"},{"startTime":342.725,"endTime":346.815,"body":"say which of these do we think is, if,"},{"startTime":346.865,"endTime":348.845,"body":"that we can get through more quickly?"},{"startTime":348.955,"endTime":353.255,"body":"Or which of these do we suspect that"},{"startTime":348.955,"endTime":353.255,"body":"we already know what's happening"},{"startTime":353.285,"endTime":356.845,"body":"and that isn't really a problem"},{"startTime":353.285,"endTime":356.845,"body":"that we can, resolve it quickly?"},{"startTime":356.97,"endTime":360.33,"body":"People might hear what I just said"},{"startTime":356.97,"endTime":360.33,"body":"and say, oh, that sounds like you're"},{"startTime":360.33,"endTime":363.71,"body":"doing some kind of like weighted"},{"startTime":360.33,"endTime":363.71,"body":"shortest job type of deal, right?"},{"startTime":363.75,"endTime":364.12,"body":"You know what I mean?"},{"startTime":364.12,"endTime":366.56,"body":"Like, the quickest resolution"},{"startTime":364.12,"endTime":366.56,"body":"gets resolved first."},{"startTime":366.76,"endTime":368.9,"body":"No, no, no, it really wasn't that"},{"startTime":366.76,"endTime":368.9,"body":"way because we would look at things"},{"startTime":368.9,"endTime":373.29,"body":"and say, oh, I think I have that"},{"startTime":368.9,"endTime":373.29,"body":"test environment set up to handle."},{"startTime":373.44,"endTime":376.52,"body":"And I think I can replicate that"},{"startTime":373.44,"endTime":376.52,"body":"just, just because it just happens."},{"startTime":376.57,"endTime":379.31,"body":"Just coincidence that I think"},{"startTime":376.57,"endTime":379.31,"body":"I might be able to do that,"},{"startTime":379.46,"endTime":380.98,"body":"or it might be intriguing."},{"startTime":380.98,"endTime":383.8,"body":"And I just decided I want to work"},{"startTime":380.98,"endTime":383.8,"body":"on that one first because it's more"},{"startTime":383.8,"endTime":384.92,"body":"intriguing than the other ones,"},{"startTime":385.07,"endTime":385.98,"body":"when, yeah."},{"startTime":385.98,"endTime":386.93,"body":"So to your point about."},{"startTime":387.08,"endTime":391.06,"body":"The team deciding what to work on because"},{"startTime":387.08,"endTime":391.06,"body":"really nobody's giving them priority,"},{"startTime":391.21,"endTime":394.36,"body":"which is exactly what happens when"},{"startTime":391.21,"endTime":394.36,"body":"everybody says everything's priority one."},{"startTime":394.51,"endTime":398.1,"body":"Human nature is basically"},{"startTime":394.51,"endTime":398.1,"body":"like this, right?"},{"startTime":398.1,"endTime":401.6,"body":"They're gonna say, a team member would"},{"startTime":398.1,"endTime":401.6,"body":"say, let's pick up something that is"},{"startTime":401.75,"endTime":406.93,"body":"either interesting or intriguing to me,"},{"startTime":401.75,"endTime":406.93,"body":"individually, or Something that I can"},{"startTime":406.93,"endTime":412.36,"body":"be assured I will finish so that people"},{"startTime":406.93,"endTime":412.36,"body":"aren't asking me about it later, right?"},{"startTime":412.435,"endTime":417.385,"body":"I'm coloring now with my interests"},{"startTime":412.435,"endTime":417.385,"body":"as opposed to a customer value"},{"startTime":417.595,"endTime":420.025,"body":"or business priority or whatever."},{"startTime":420.325,"endTime":421.525,"body":"It's time to resolution."},{"startTime":421.53,"endTime":423.025,"body":"Any, any other, any other type of thing?"},{"startTime":423.205,"endTime":426.175,"body":"And the, the issue here,"},{"startTime":423.205,"endTime":426.175,"body":"there's also another issue here."},{"startTime":426.265,"endTime":428.635,"body":"I don't know if this is the right"},{"startTime":426.265,"endTime":428.635,"body":"time to, I dunno if this is the"},{"startTime":428.635,"endTime":431.935,"body":"right time to call out this issue,"},{"startTime":428.635,"endTime":431.935,"body":"but, you, you, you brought it up."},{"startTime":431.935,"endTime":434.965,"body":"You just brought up like, I'm"},{"startTime":431.935,"endTime":434.965,"body":"picking this up because I think I"},{"startTime":434.965,"endTime":436.825,"body":"can get this resolved fairly quickly."},{"startTime":436.975,"endTime":442.335,"body":"the subtext of what you just said is very"},{"startTime":436.975,"endTime":442.335,"body":"real from when I used to be a manager."},{"startTime":442.485,"endTime":446.205,"body":"What you just said is a very real thing"},{"startTime":442.485,"endTime":446.205,"body":"because it's somebody in the, in the"},{"startTime":446.205,"endTime":452.225,"body":"organization would go pull stats that"},{"startTime":446.205,"endTime":452.225,"body":"says how many items that were assigned"},{"startTime":452.235,"endTime":457.025,"body":"to Brian in the past six months got"},{"startTime":452.235,"endTime":457.025,"body":"marked as resolved as opposed to"},{"startTime":457.025,"endTime":459.185,"body":"marked as whatever, something else."},{"startTime":459.41,"endTime":463.49,"body":"And then, not resolved or had to, had"},{"startTime":459.41,"endTime":463.49,"body":"to go through iteration loops to get"},{"startTime":463.49,"endTime":467.67,"body":"resolved or basically, the underlying"},{"startTime":463.49,"endTime":467.67,"body":"assumption of that metric is how"},{"startTime":467.67,"endTime":469.71,"body":"good is Brian at resolving tickets?"},{"startTime":469.835,"endTime":473.695,"body":"But, but, you know what, the funny thing"},{"startTime":469.835,"endTime":473.695,"body":"about that is if you had control of what"},{"startTime":473.695,"endTime":477.645,"body":"tickets you picked up and you only picked"},{"startTime":473.695,"endTime":477.645,"body":"up the easiest ones and you resolved them."},{"startTime":477.82,"endTime":479.99,"body":"You would have a better"},{"startTime":477.82,"endTime":479.99,"body":"metric than anyone else."},{"startTime":480.14,"endTime":480.67,"body":"You would."},{"startTime":480.67,"endTime":486.38,"body":"And if an organization is, is valuing"},{"startTime":480.67,"endTime":486.38,"body":"that metric to reward you, then why"},{"startTime":486.38,"endTime":487.72,"body":"wouldn't you pick up the easy ones?"},{"startTime":487.86,"endTime":488.22,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":488.27,"endTime":488.64,"body":"Right."},{"startTime":488.64,"endTime":488.87,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":489.02,"endTime":492.58,"body":"Uh, but that just simply says"},{"startTime":489.02,"endTime":492.58,"body":"your entire prioritization"},{"startTime":492.6,"endTime":493.85,"body":"framework just went out the window."},{"startTime":494.135,"endTime":498.065,"body":"Because you've let the team do"},{"startTime":494.135,"endTime":498.065,"body":"things their way, and it's really"},{"startTime":498.065,"endTime":499.645,"body":"just anarchy at that stage."},{"startTime":499.645,"endTime":502.915,"body":"we're getting a little bit off topic,"},{"startTime":499.645,"endTime":502.915,"body":"but I think where this is relevant is"},{"startTime":502.915,"endTime":507.425,"body":"the culture where everything's a P1"},{"startTime":502.915,"endTime":507.425,"body":"probably also has these games at play."},{"startTime":507.575,"endTime":510.135,"body":"I will tell you, let me say"},{"startTime":507.575,"endTime":510.135,"body":"that in a different way."},{"startTime":510.285,"endTime":514.475,"body":"Where I worked, that, where they"},{"startTime":510.285,"endTime":514.475,"body":"were guilty of this problem,"},{"startTime":514.745,"endTime":518.415,"body":"where this problem was completely"},{"startTime":514.745,"endTime":518.415,"body":"apparent, they had these other games"},{"startTime":518.415,"endTime":519.825,"body":"that I'm talking about at play."},{"startTime":520.075,"endTime":522.335,"body":"They had people that would pick things."},{"startTime":522.485,"endTime":525.545,"body":"To say, Oh, I'm working on these"},{"startTime":522.485,"endTime":525.545,"body":"support tickets and they would grab"},{"startTime":525.555,"endTime":529.185,"body":"the easiest ones as fast as possible"},{"startTime":525.555,"endTime":529.185,"body":"for, before anyone else got to them."},{"startTime":529.335,"endTime":532.815,"body":"I, I, I distinctly remember because"},{"startTime":529.335,"endTime":532.815,"body":"I, I, like being a manager in that"},{"startTime":532.825,"endTime":537.081,"body":"organization, I remember I didn't have"},{"startTime":532.825,"endTime":537.081,"body":"to take any, uh, work items on myself."},{"startTime":537.081,"endTime":539.361,"body":"I could delegate all the work items"},{"startTime":537.081,"endTime":539.361,"body":"a hundred percent of the work items."},{"startTime":539.571,"endTime":541.731,"body":"In fact, I would get feedback"},{"startTime":539.571,"endTime":541.731,"body":"often that was like, why?"},{"startTime":541.731,"endTime":542.781,"body":"Why are you working on that?"},{"startTime":542.931,"endTime":545.151,"body":"Like, you got, you got managerial"},{"startTime":542.931,"endTime":545.151,"body":"stuff you could be working on."},{"startTime":545.361,"endTime":549.381,"body":"I would take the worst, the worst"},{"startTime":545.361,"endTime":549.381,"body":"work items because I knew that"},{"startTime":549.381,"endTime":554.481,"body":"nobody was looking at my, I was"},{"startTime":549.381,"endTime":554.481,"body":"not judged on time to resolve or"},{"startTime":554.481,"endTime":556.011,"body":"percentage of resolved or anything."},{"startTime":556.041,"endTime":556.821,"body":"Anything like that."},{"startTime":556.821,"endTime":557.782,"body":"I was not judged on any of that."},{"startTime":558.051,"endTime":561.406,"body":"Any of those metrics, I was judged"},{"startTime":558.051,"endTime":561.406,"body":"on managerial metrics, which"},{"startTime":561.406,"endTime":562.526,"body":"were much, much, much different."},{"startTime":562.776,"endTime":567.296,"body":"So it didn't, so I would take the"},{"startTime":562.776,"endTime":567.296,"body":"worst work items and I would, take"},{"startTime":567.296,"endTime":571.704,"body":"them into my queue and, and I, like"},{"startTime":567.296,"endTime":571.704,"body":"I had the worst, time to resolve."},{"startTime":571.766,"endTime":575.526,"body":"but I would take the most complicated,"},{"startTime":571.766,"endTime":575.526,"body":"most technical, work items, so"},{"startTime":575.526,"endTime":579.466,"body":"that my team didn't, didn't have"},{"startTime":575.526,"endTime":579.466,"body":"to deal with this, this game"},{"startTime":579.746,"endTime":582.091,"body":"basically, because this metrics game."},{"startTime":582.241,"endTime":584.831,"body":"At that company was not perpetuated by me."},{"startTime":584.841,"endTime":587.041,"body":"It wasn't perpetuated by"},{"startTime":584.841,"endTime":587.041,"body":"my level of management."},{"startTime":587.231,"endTime":590.161,"body":"It was perpetuated far, far,"},{"startTime":587.231,"endTime":590.161,"body":"far above in the hierarchy."},{"startTime":590.451,"endTime":591.891,"body":"Um, all these games, you know."},{"startTime":592.041,"endTime":594.121,"body":"Yeah, that's, that's what I"},{"startTime":592.041,"endTime":594.121,"body":"was saying earlier, what is"},{"startTime":594.121,"endTime":595.971,"body":"the organization prize, right?"},{"startTime":596.121,"endTime":598.681,"body":"Um, so it, let's, let's"},{"startTime":596.121,"endTime":598.681,"body":"just go with this, right?"},{"startTime":598.711,"endTime":602.491,"body":"Let's just say the team decides whatever"},{"startTime":598.711,"endTime":602.491,"body":"they want to do in terms of priority"},{"startTime":602.491,"endTime":603.741,"body":"because everything is priority one."},{"startTime":603.741,"endTime":606.111,"body":"So it doesn't matter what"},{"startTime":603.741,"endTime":606.111,"body":"they pick to work on."},{"startTime":606.321,"endTime":606.831,"body":"They've met."},{"startTime":606.981,"endTime":607.491,"body":"Criteria."},{"startTime":607.501,"endTime":610.671,"body":"They're working on the top priority"},{"startTime":607.501,"endTime":610.671,"body":"because they're all top priorities."},{"startTime":610.821,"endTime":614.561,"body":"So when that happens, how do you deliver"},{"startTime":610.821,"endTime":614.561,"body":"value to your customer at the end of a"},{"startTime":614.561,"endTime":616.841,"body":"sprint when that is happening, right?"},{"startTime":616.991,"endTime":622.511,"body":"Um, how, so, so kind of where I'm heading"},{"startTime":616.991,"endTime":622.511,"body":"with that is, is your team using sprint"},{"startTime":622.521,"endTime":625.791,"body":"goals, first of all, and if they are,"},{"startTime":622.521,"endTime":625.791,"body":"what does that look like when everybody's"},{"startTime":625.791,"endTime":627.811,"body":"picking their own work anyway, right?"},{"startTime":627.961,"endTime":632.131,"body":"Uh, and and then extend that out"},{"startTime":627.961,"endTime":632.131,"body":"to what value are you actually"},{"startTime":632.131,"endTime":633.631,"body":"delivering in the customer's hands."},{"startTime":633.781,"endTime":634.731,"body":"Everything is priority one."},{"startTime":634.761,"endTime":635.711,"body":"So it doesn't matter what you do."},{"startTime":635.861,"endTime":639.911,"body":"You've met, you met the ask from"},{"startTime":635.861,"endTime":639.911,"body":"management, senior management."},{"startTime":639.986,"endTime":643.646,"body":"I would argue in this case if everything"},{"startTime":639.986,"endTime":643.646,"body":"in a culture where everything is"},{"startTime":643.646,"endTime":645.106,"body":"priority one, nothing is priority one."},{"startTime":645.116,"endTime":649.616,"body":"So I, I would argue that who,"},{"startTime":645.116,"endTime":649.616,"body":"who, Whomever, whomever, should"},{"startTime":649.616,"endTime":652.906,"body":"be responsible for prioritization"},{"startTime":649.616,"endTime":652.906,"body":"has completely abdicated that"},{"startTime":652.906,"endTime":656.266,"body":"responsibility and has passed it to"},{"startTime":652.906,"endTime":656.266,"body":"the next level down in the hierarchy."},{"startTime":656.266,"endTime":659.236,"body":"Whoever that is, whether it's a"},{"startTime":656.266,"endTime":659.236,"body":"mid-manager or whether that's the"},{"startTime":659.236,"endTime":662.676,"body":"product team or whether that's the"},{"startTime":659.236,"endTime":662.676,"body":"development manager development"},{"startTime":662.776,"endTime":663.706,"body":"the development manager, yeah."},{"startTime":663.706,"endTime":665.956,"body":"Some, somebody, so somebody"},{"startTime":663.706,"endTime":665.956,"body":"else is taking it on."},{"startTime":666.016,"endTime":667.316,"body":"I, I mean, I would, I would."},{"startTime":667.466,"endTime":672.866,"body":"I would encourage the team to, to look"},{"startTime":667.466,"endTime":672.866,"body":"at this in a positive light and take"},{"startTime":672.876,"endTime":677.196,"body":"prioritization on at a team level and,"},{"startTime":672.876,"endTime":677.196,"body":"and make, make, come to a consensus"},{"startTime":677.196,"endTime":679.086,"body":"between all the team members together."},{"startTime":679.316,"endTime":681.806,"body":"Come, come, and you could do"},{"startTime":679.316,"endTime":681.806,"body":"this with your working agreement."},{"startTime":681.806,"endTime":684.136,"body":"You could say, we're going"},{"startTime":681.806,"endTime":684.136,"body":"to come to a unanimous."},{"startTime":684.286,"endTime":689.246,"body":"Decision on every, on every, uh, decision"},{"startTime":684.286,"endTime":689.246,"body":"and, and you might hear that you might"},{"startTime":689.256,"endTime":692.486,"body":"in management, you might hear that and"},{"startTime":689.256,"endTime":692.486,"body":"be like, Oh my God, a unanimous decision."},{"startTime":692.656,"endTime":694.696,"body":"What's that going to"},{"startTime":692.656,"endTime":694.696,"body":"take forever to decide?"},{"startTime":694.856,"endTime":698.596,"body":"I mean, yeah, maybe the first one or"},{"startTime":694.856,"endTime":698.596,"body":"two, but quickly after, but yeah, after a"},{"startTime":698.596,"endTime":701.656,"body":"while, your team's going to learn quickly"},{"startTime":698.596,"endTime":701.656,"body":"and, and you're going to start coming to"},{"startTime":701.656,"endTime":705.326,"body":"unanimous decisions very quickly because"},{"startTime":701.656,"endTime":705.326,"body":"some things are just not worth fighting"},{"startTime":705.336,"endTime":709.496,"body":"about and, and the things that are worth"},{"startTime":705.336,"endTime":709.496,"body":"fighting about the team again, they worked"},{"startTime":709.756,"endTime":711.286,"body":"assuming they work together every day."},{"startTime":711.526,"endTime":713.536,"body":"And they're a reasonable sized team."},{"startTime":713.536,"endTime":715.646,"body":"They're not a team of 30, 50 people."},{"startTime":715.646,"endTime":717.196,"body":"You know, some ridiculous team like that."},{"startTime":717.346,"endTime":717.716,"body":"Um."},{"startTime":717.866,"endTime":720.336,"body":"They should be able to say, Oh,"},{"startTime":717.866,"endTime":720.336,"body":"this seems really important to you."},{"startTime":720.616,"endTime":723.246,"body":"Okay, well, let's, let's,"},{"startTime":720.616,"endTime":723.246,"body":"there must be a reason."},{"startTime":723.496,"endTime":724.676,"body":"Let's sit down and talk about it."},{"startTime":724.956,"endTime":726.626,"body":"Talk about it for 15, 20 minutes."},{"startTime":726.846,"endTime":729.456,"body":"And then you make a decision between"},{"startTime":726.846,"endTime":729.456,"body":"you all and then you move on."},{"startTime":729.606,"endTime":731.536,"body":"Yeah, so I agree, first of all."},{"startTime":731.536,"endTime":732.906,"body":"And secondly, I want to say this."},{"startTime":733.196,"endTime":734.636,"body":"I want to repeat what I just said."},{"startTime":734.786,"endTime":737.846,"body":"You know, you're probably"},{"startTime":734.786,"endTime":737.846,"body":"not utilizing sprint goals."},{"startTime":738.191,"endTime":742.121,"body":"Effectively, if the team is just picking"},{"startTime":738.191,"endTime":742.121,"body":"on whatever they want to work on, if"},{"startTime":742.121,"endTime":745.951,"body":"that is happening, then you look at"},{"startTime":742.121,"endTime":745.951,"body":"the upstream impact of that, right?"},{"startTime":745.961,"endTime":749.751,"body":"So sprint goals aren't really very"},{"startTime":745.961,"endTime":749.751,"body":"effective if they're being used at all."},{"startTime":750.031,"endTime":755.791,"body":"How do they align with your Organizational"},{"startTime":750.031,"endTime":755.791,"body":"strategy, to your objectives."},{"startTime":755.801,"endTime":759.771,"body":"How do the strategies then in turn,"},{"startTime":755.801,"endTime":759.771,"body":"upstream again, align to the strategies,"},{"startTime":759.991,"endTime":761.601,"body":"sorry, align to the objectives, right?"},{"startTime":761.726,"endTime":766.766,"body":"and then the objectives probably"},{"startTime":761.726,"endTime":766.766,"body":"fall under mission, vision, etc."},{"startTime":766.916,"endTime":771.856,"body":"So this thing is, has a far reaching"},{"startTime":766.916,"endTime":771.856,"body":"impact than just simply saying work on"},{"startTime":771.856,"endTime":773.556,"body":"this, now work on this, now work on this."},{"startTime":773.836,"endTime":775.506,"body":"Let's argue on sprint goals for a second."},{"startTime":775.506,"endTime":775.756,"body":"So."},{"startTime":775.766,"endTime":775.986,"body":"Sure."},{"startTime":776.136,"endTime":779.826,"body":"So if you set a sprint goal and then"},{"startTime":776.136,"endTime":779.826,"body":"your product manager rise off into"},{"startTime":779.826,"endTime":783.126,"body":"the sunset and is not accessible to"},{"startTime":779.826,"endTime":783.126,"body":"the team for the rest of the sprint,"},{"startTime":783.276,"endTime":786.566,"body":"like that basically is like you didn't"},{"startTime":783.276,"endTime":786.566,"body":"set a sprint goal in the first place."},{"startTime":786.716,"endTime":788.686,"body":"Like you, you need to be there again."},{"startTime":788.696,"endTime":792.136,"body":"Like this, the, the scrum guide is"},{"startTime":788.696,"endTime":792.136,"body":"where I sort of like a disagree with"},{"startTime":792.136,"endTime":794.426,"body":"the scrum guide where it's like,"},{"startTime":792.136,"endTime":794.426,"body":"Oh, the product owner is optional."},{"startTime":794.426,"endTime":796.336,"body":"You don't really need to, but"},{"startTime":794.426,"endTime":796.336,"body":"you, you shouldn't need to be"},{"startTime":796.336,"endTime":798.896,"body":"at the daily scrum because it's"},{"startTime":796.336,"endTime":798.896,"body":"for the developers or whatever."},{"startTime":799.091,"endTime":802.721,"body":"that's great, but also, let me"},{"startTime":799.091,"endTime":802.721,"body":"figure out a way to, to, to, to"},{"startTime":802.721,"endTime":805.951,"body":"make the statement I'm about to"},{"startTime":802.721,"endTime":805.951,"body":"make in the form of a question."},{"startTime":806.076,"endTime":807.436,"body":"The Daily Scrum."},{"startTime":807.586,"endTime":809.086,"body":"It's for the developers, right?"},{"startTime":809.086,"endTime":811.426,"body":"It's, it's a, it's a planning"},{"startTime":809.086,"endTime":811.426,"body":"session for the developers."},{"startTime":811.686,"endTime":815.646,"body":"However, understanding that the"},{"startTime":811.686,"endTime":815.646,"body":"product manager is optional,"},{"startTime":815.796,"endTime":817.506,"body":"doesn't really need to be there."},{"startTime":817.516,"endTime":819.586,"body":"Doesn't really serve"},{"startTime":817.516,"endTime":819.586,"body":"a core function there."},{"startTime":819.606,"endTime":822.116,"body":"They're really just there in"},{"startTime":819.606,"endTime":822.116,"body":"case people want to ask them"},{"startTime":822.406,"endTime":823.456,"body":"clarifying questions, right?"},{"startTime":823.626,"endTime":824.016,"body":"Right."},{"startTime":824.146,"endTime":826.841,"body":"However,  there's nothing stopping"},{"startTime":824.146,"endTime":826.841,"body":"the product manager from saying,"},{"startTime":826.841,"endTime":829.991,"body":"Hey, I see you guys are not"},{"startTime":826.841,"endTime":829.991,"body":"concentrating on the sprint goal today."},{"startTime":830.141,"endTime":832.981,"body":"Uh, like you're making a plan to not"},{"startTime":830.141,"endTime":832.981,"body":"concentrate on the sprinkle today."},{"startTime":833.286,"endTime":834.086,"body":"are you sure?"},{"startTime":834.086,"endTime":835.826,"body":"Like, How many days are"},{"startTime":834.086,"endTime":835.826,"body":"we going to do this?"},{"startTime":835.836,"endTime":837.446,"body":"Like, are you going to get"},{"startTime":835.836,"endTime":837.446,"body":"back to this print goal?"},{"startTime":837.626,"endTime":841.996,"body":"Like, I mean, the, the, the, the,"},{"startTime":837.626,"endTime":841.996,"body":"the checking function, the balancing"},{"startTime":841.996,"endTime":847.006,"body":"function that, that, product"},{"startTime":841.996,"endTime":847.006,"body":"manager would might play like that"},{"startTime":847.006,"endTime":848.126,"body":"can get out of hand real quick."},{"startTime":848.136,"endTime":851.825,"body":"That's why I'm bringing it up as a, like"},{"startTime":848.136,"endTime":851.825,"body":"a, kind of walking on, I'm walking on"},{"startTime":851.826,"endTime":853.616,"body":"eggshells right here, bringing it up."},{"startTime":853.636,"endTime":856.716,"body":"But the point is like, if"},{"startTime":853.636,"endTime":856.716,"body":"nobody in the team saying, Hey,"},{"startTime":857.066,"endTime":858.036,"body":"everything we're doing is not."},{"startTime":858.196,"endTime":859.256,"body":"Not part of the sprinkle."},{"startTime":859.336,"endTime":860.596,"body":"Like, this is not important."},{"startTime":860.866,"endTime":863.236,"body":"Like, at the end of the stand"},{"startTime":860.866,"endTime":863.236,"body":"up, the product manager, I would"},{"startTime":863.236,"endTime":866.446,"body":"expect, if they are there, to say,"},{"startTime":863.236,"endTime":866.446,"body":"you guys, what are you guys doing"},{"startTime":866.456,"endTime":868.046,"body":"to advance the Sprint Goal  today?"},{"startTime":868.146,"endTime":870.236,"body":"Yeah, I, I, well, yeah, absolutely."},{"startTime":870.266,"endTime":874.166,"body":"So a product manager, listen, if you're"},{"startTime":870.266,"endTime":874.166,"body":"out there and you're saying the product"},{"startTime":874.166,"endTime":877.796,"body":"manager should not be, or product owner"},{"startTime":874.166,"endTime":877.796,"body":"should not be in your, daily stand"},{"startTime":877.796,"endTime":881.486,"body":"up team sync, et cetera, let me tell"},{"startTime":877.796,"endTime":881.486,"body":"you, you're wrong because they're part"},{"startTime":881.486,"endTime":883.326,"body":"and parcel of the development team."},{"startTime":883.346,"endTime":885.666,"body":"Now I'm not saying they"},{"startTime":883.346,"endTime":885.666,"body":"must be mandatory, right?"},{"startTime":885.776,"endTime":888.896,"body":"They don't necessarily have to attend"},{"startTime":885.776,"endTime":888.896,"body":"every meeting, but they can, they"},{"startTime":888.896,"endTime":890.686,"body":"are invited and they can be there."},{"startTime":890.936,"endTime":895.256,"body":"So in the scenario that you just outlined,"},{"startTime":890.936,"endTime":895.256,"body":"where the team is working on stuff that is"},{"startTime":895.256,"endTime":897.816,"body":"not directly aligned with the sprint goal."},{"startTime":897.966,"endTime":902.136,"body":"They're perfectly, within their rights"},{"startTime":897.966,"endTime":902.136,"body":"to say at the 16th minute, at the"},{"startTime":902.136,"endTime":905.786,"body":"end of the daily stand up, I have a"},{"startTime":902.136,"endTime":905.786,"body":"question, I'll wait, and then at the"},{"startTime":905.786,"endTime":907.626,"body":"16th minute, they can ask this question."},{"startTime":907.886,"endTime":912.376,"body":"How is this particular work item, how is"},{"startTime":907.886,"endTime":912.376,"body":"this work aligned with the sprint goal?"},{"startTime":912.526,"endTime":915.726,"body":"I think it's, it's well within"},{"startTime":912.526,"endTime":915.726,"body":"their rights to ask the question,"},{"startTime":915.776,"endTime":919.346,"body":"and then the team can say whatever,"},{"startTime":915.776,"endTime":919.346,"body":"whatever the rationale is, right?"},{"startTime":919.356,"endTime":920.236,"body":"If the rationale is..."},{"startTime":920.386,"endTime":921.186,"body":"Well, I don't know."},{"startTime":921.226,"endTime":923.876,"body":"Or, I thought I'd get this"},{"startTime":921.226,"endTime":923.876,"body":"done and then I'll work on"},{"startTime":923.876,"endTime":925.326,"body":"something that's closely aligned."},{"startTime":925.476,"endTime":927.496,"body":"These are all excuses"},{"startTime":925.476,"endTime":927.496,"body":"at the end of the day."},{"startTime":927.536,"endTime":932.786,"body":"Uh, well, I mean, they might be excuses,"},{"startTime":927.536,"endTime":932.786,"body":"but also, if you're going to, the reality"},{"startTime":932.816,"endTime":937.196,"body":"of day to day development, that I, again,"},{"startTime":932.816,"endTime":937.196,"body":"I understand as a product manager only"},{"startTime":937.196,"endTime":940.886,"body":"because I work on development teams"},{"startTime":937.196,"endTime":940.886,"body":"for years and years and years, is that"},{"startTime":941.046,"endTime":943.846,"body":"sometimes you say, well, we're taking"},{"startTime":941.046,"endTime":943.846,"body":"this, we're taking this little side path."},{"startTime":943.996,"endTime":946.346,"body":"And we're going to, we're going"},{"startTime":943.996,"endTime":946.346,"body":"down the side path for a couple of"},{"startTime":946.346,"endTime":948.246,"body":"days, day two, three days, whatever."},{"startTime":948.246,"endTime":950.816,"body":"Assuming you have a two week sprint,"},{"startTime":948.246,"endTime":950.816,"body":"we're going on the side path for a day or"},{"startTime":950.816,"endTime":954.676,"body":"two because we think  when we knock this"},{"startTime":950.816,"endTime":954.676,"body":"out, there won't be all these garbage"},{"startTime":954.676,"endTime":956.766,"body":"error messages in the logs anymore."},{"startTime":956.946,"endTime":960.556,"body":"It'll be a lot easier for our day to"},{"startTime":956.946,"endTime":960.556,"body":"day life with all this stuff that you're"},{"startTime":960.556,"endTime":961.976,"body":"not involved in that you don't see."},{"startTime":962.286,"endTime":966.096,"body":"And it's, and, and we know that we can"},{"startTime":962.286,"endTime":966.096,"body":"completely knock it out and have it done."},{"startTime":966.436,"endTime":968.276,"body":"And we'll be back to your"},{"startTime":966.436,"endTime":968.276,"body":"sprint goal and we can get it"},{"startTime":968.276,"endTime":969.726,"body":"done by the end of the sprint."},{"startTime":969.976,"endTime":971.506,"body":"It shouldn't cause any issue."},{"startTime":971.656,"endTime":974.816,"body":"And if it does, we're going to pause all"},{"startTime":971.656,"endTime":974.816,"body":"this stuff, but don't worry about it."},{"startTime":975.106,"endTime":978.856,"body":"Well, in that case, it's still somehow"},{"startTime":975.106,"endTime":978.856,"body":"related to the spring goal, right?"},{"startTime":978.956,"endTime":981.226,"body":"Oh, well, well, it may"},{"startTime":978.956,"endTime":981.226,"body":"be tangentially related."},{"startTime":981.236,"endTime":983.766,"body":"Well, it may be, it may"},{"startTime":981.236,"endTime":983.766,"body":"be completely unrelated."},{"startTime":983.776,"endTime":985.616,"body":"If it's completely"},{"startTime":983.776,"endTime":985.616,"body":"unrelated, then the product."},{"startTime":985.766,"endTime":989.736,"body":"One person should be assured that"},{"startTime":985.766,"endTime":989.736,"body":"that sprint goal is not jeopardized by"},{"startTime":989.976,"endTime":992.086,"body":"taking on this one or two day journey."},{"startTime":992.136,"endTime":992.976,"body":"That's what I'm saying."},{"startTime":992.986,"endTime":993.306,"body":"That's what I'm saying."},{"startTime":993.456,"endTime":997.526,"body":"Where I have encountered that before,"},{"startTime":993.456,"endTime":997.526,"body":"like I've been on teams before where"},{"startTime":997.826,"endTime":1001.656,"body":"they do, they do feature development,"},{"startTime":997.826,"endTime":1001.656,"body":"but also they support a product"},{"startTime":1001.656,"endTime":1002.766,"body":"that is running in production."},{"startTime":1003.026,"endTime":1006.656,"body":"So when the product that is running"},{"startTime":1003.026,"endTime":1006.656,"body":"in production has issues, they have"},{"startTime":1006.656,"endTime":1007.966,"body":"to stop and address the issues."},{"startTime":1007.966,"endTime":1009.306,"body":"And that may be unplanned work."},{"startTime":1009.456,"endTime":1009.746,"body":"Right?"},{"startTime":1009.926,"endTime":1013.806,"body":"But a lot of times the issues are"},{"startTime":1009.926,"endTime":1013.806,"body":"just like, Hey, I got this message"},{"startTime":1013.806,"endTime":1016.856,"body":"or I saw this thing in the log"},{"startTime":1013.806,"endTime":1016.856,"body":"and I want to go chase it, okay,"},{"startTime":1016.856,"endTime":1021.006,"body":"well, like the more advanced teams"},{"startTime":1016.856,"endTime":1021.006,"body":"will chase that via time boxes."},{"startTime":1021.006,"endTime":1022.276,"body":"They won't even write work items."},{"startTime":1022.526,"endTime":1024.316,"body":"They'll just say, okay, we're going"},{"startTime":1022.526,"endTime":1024.316,"body":"to, we're going to take this person"},{"startTime":1024.336,"endTime":1026.376,"body":"off of task and spend a half a day."},{"startTime":1026.526,"endTime":1030.256,"body":"See what you can learn, after lunch,"},{"startTime":1026.526,"endTime":1030.256,"body":"we'll get on a call, you can debrief"},{"startTime":1030.256,"endTime":1033.366,"body":"us, you can walk us through what you"},{"startTime":1030.256,"endTime":1033.366,"body":"learned, right, that kind of stuff."},{"startTime":1033.456,"endTime":1037.946,"body":"That's not a, to me, that's not a"},{"startTime":1033.456,"endTime":1037.946,"body":"huge pivot away from your sprint goal."},{"startTime":1037.956,"endTime":1039.126,"body":"I don't think it's a pivot at all."},{"startTime":1039.276,"endTime":1041.926,"body":"That's just, I think that's"},{"startTime":1039.276,"endTime":1041.926,"body":"just business as usual."},{"startTime":1042.076,"endTime":1045.846,"body":"Um, what is a, what is a pivot away"},{"startTime":1042.076,"endTime":1045.846,"body":"from the sprint goal is when they"},{"startTime":1045.846,"endTime":1047.921,"body":"say, We're doing this this sprint."},{"startTime":1048.041,"endTime":1051.051,"body":"I know we agreed on all this other stuff,"},{"startTime":1048.041,"endTime":1051.051,"body":"but we're doing this this sprint, and"},{"startTime":1051.051,"endTime":1054.421,"body":"then the next sprint, we'll go back to"},{"startTime":1051.051,"endTime":1054.421,"body":"whatever that we agreed with, right?"},{"startTime":1054.521,"endTime":1055.201,"body":"That is wrong."},{"startTime":1055.491,"endTime":1058.031,"body":"I bring all this up because"},{"startTime":1055.491,"endTime":1058.031,"body":"we started with sprint goals."},{"startTime":1058.141,"endTime":1058.421,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":1058.471,"endTime":1060.301,"body":"And, I bring all this up to say..."},{"startTime":1060.451,"endTime":1065.996,"body":"If you have a solid goal in mind, when you"},{"startTime":1060.451,"endTime":1065.996,"body":"begin the sprint, you stated that clear"},{"startTime":1066.026,"endTime":1068.366,"body":"goal and everyone on the team has agreed."},{"startTime":1068.586,"endTime":1070.046,"body":"And that's how you launch your sprint."},{"startTime":1070.276,"endTime":1073.416,"body":"The, the, the, the issue here is when"},{"startTime":1070.276,"endTime":1073.416,"body":"you're, you're sprinted, you not have"},{"startTime":1073.416,"endTime":1076.516,"body":"sprint goals when you start them,"},{"startTime":1073.416,"endTime":1076.516,"body":"complete all the work items is not."},{"startTime":1076.846,"endTime":1077.476,"body":"It's not a sprint goal."},{"startTime":1077.526,"endTime":1077.766,"body":"No."},{"startTime":1077.916,"endTime":1078.146,"body":"Okay."},{"startTime":1078.296,"endTime":1082.161,"body":"And, if I'm going to hammer on product,"},{"startTime":1078.296,"endTime":1082.161,"body":"like I work in product, so I can do that."},{"startTime":1082.451,"endTime":1085.071,"body":"Uh, that's, that's, that's the"},{"startTime":1082.451,"endTime":1085.071,"body":"way it works on the podcast."},{"startTime":1085.081,"endTime":1085.631,"body":"You didn't know that."},{"startTime":1085.891,"endTime":1089.481,"body":"Um, it's, it's to say, if you"},{"startTime":1085.891,"endTime":1089.481,"body":"don't have clear sprint goals, it's"},{"startTime":1089.491,"endTime":1094.041,"body":"probably because you don't have"},{"startTime":1089.491,"endTime":1094.041,"body":"clear business goals or strategies."},{"startTime":1094.191,"endTime":1097.791,"body":"And if you don't have clear business"},{"startTime":1094.191,"endTime":1097.791,"body":"goals or strategies, if your goals are"},{"startTime":1097.791,"endTime":1102.916,"body":"not very well defined, it's You know,"},{"startTime":1097.791,"endTime":1102.916,"body":"oh, we want to increase, uh, user views"},{"startTime":1102.916,"endTime":1104.926,"body":"of this new page we put in production."},{"startTime":1105.246,"endTime":1107.146,"body":"We want to, we want 10 percent more views."},{"startTime":1107.296,"endTime":1110.526,"body":"We get, we get, we get 100"},{"startTime":1107.296,"endTime":1110.526,"body":"views a week on this page."},{"startTime":1110.736,"endTime":1114.496,"body":"We want to get 110 views this week."},{"startTime":1114.666,"endTime":1116.496,"body":"What are we doing to promote this page?"},{"startTime":1116.621,"endTime":1118.531,"body":"Whatever your goal is."},{"startTime":1118.681,"endTime":1120.291,"body":"It can be measured, clearly."},{"startTime":1120.441,"endTime":1122.941,"body":"You need to give that to the team"},{"startTime":1120.441,"endTime":1122.941,"body":"and let them figure out how they're"},{"startTime":1122.941,"endTime":1124.431,"body":"gonna, move forward with it."},{"startTime":1124.581,"endTime":1127.861,"body":"But if you don't have, well defined"},{"startTime":1124.581,"endTime":1127.861,"body":"goals like that, maybe it's time"},{"startTime":1127.861,"endTime":1131.231,"body":"to slow down and talk with your"},{"startTime":1127.861,"endTime":1131.231,"body":"team and talk with the business."},{"startTime":1131.516,"endTime":1133.576,"body":"Talk with the executives, talk"},{"startTime":1131.516,"endTime":1133.576,"body":"with sales, marketing, whoever"},{"startTime":1133.576,"endTime":1134.246,"body":"you need to get in the room."},{"startTime":1134.246,"endTime":1136.946,"body":"Talk with the customer, whoever"},{"startTime":1134.246,"endTime":1136.946,"body":"you get in the room, whomever"},{"startTime":1136.956,"endTime":1137.936,"body":"you need to get in the room."},{"startTime":1138.086,"endTime":1139.156,"body":"Yes, whomever."},{"startTime":1139.196,"endTime":1139.626,"body":"That's right."},{"startTime":1139.666,"endTime":1141.506,"body":"I don't think that's the"},{"startTime":1139.666,"endTime":1141.506,"body":"appropriate use of whom."},{"startTime":1141.526,"endTime":1142.816,"body":"You get the grammar reward there."},{"startTime":1142.816,"endTime":1143.306,"body":"Not sure."},{"startTime":1143.456,"endTime":1148.426,"body":"Um, but, to get, to write better goals,"},{"startTime":1143.456,"endTime":1148.426,"body":"to get over this problem, you know."},{"startTime":1148.576,"endTime":1150.746,"body":"If you have something to point"},{"startTime":1148.576,"endTime":1150.746,"body":"to, if you have a, people call"},{"startTime":1150.746,"endTime":1152.416,"body":"this a North Star metric, right?"},{"startTime":1152.446,"endTime":1153.266,"body":"If you have a..."},{"startTime":1153.416,"endTime":1157.906,"body":"If you have something to point to, to"},{"startTime":1153.416,"endTime":1157.906,"body":"keep everyone on the right track, it"},{"startTime":1157.906,"endTime":1160.256,"body":"really, really helps in product, you know."},{"startTime":1160.256,"endTime":1163.626,"body":"And again, anybody listening to this,"},{"startTime":1160.256,"endTime":1163.626,"body":"if you're not in product, you can help"},{"startTime":1163.666,"endTime":1168.416,"body":"product by re emphasizing, Hey, we"},{"startTime":1163.666,"endTime":1168.416,"body":"don't seem to have real solid goals."},{"startTime":1168.426,"endTime":1170.136,"body":"Our goals seem to be real squishy."},{"startTime":1170.286,"endTime":1170.956,"body":"Very ambiguous."},{"startTime":1170.956,"endTime":1171.806,"body":"Do whatever I say."},{"startTime":1171.956,"endTime":1176.446,"body":"Yeah, and only what I say and oh, oh"},{"startTime":1171.956,"endTime":1176.446,"body":"and goals are not get it done by October"},{"startTime":1176.446,"endTime":1178.046,"body":"1st, that's not a goal That's not a goal."},{"startTime":1178.096,"endTime":1180.776,"body":"Yeah, that's not a goal Yeah,"},{"startTime":1178.096,"endTime":1180.776,"body":"yeah, that's not a goal."},{"startTime":1180.796,"endTime":1184.576,"body":"So two things I want to say here First"},{"startTime":1180.796,"endTime":1184.576,"body":"of all, we and this probably is the last"},{"startTime":1184.576,"endTime":1188.246,"body":"thing with on spring goes before we move"},{"startTime":1184.576,"endTime":1188.246,"body":"on to the next thing Sprint goals aren't"},{"startTime":1188.256,"endTime":1191.456,"body":"handed down to the team by anybody."},{"startTime":1191.746,"endTime":1197.276,"body":"The sprint goals are steered by product,"},{"startTime":1191.746,"endTime":1197.276,"body":"discussed, debated and agreed upon"},{"startTime":1197.276,"endTime":1201.486,"body":"by the team that this is a goal that"},{"startTime":1197.276,"endTime":1201.486,"body":"we can actually hit in the sprint."},{"startTime":1201.636,"endTime":1205.106,"body":"So product could say, well,"},{"startTime":1201.636,"endTime":1205.106,"body":"here's this north star and I"},{"startTime":1205.106,"endTime":1206.556,"body":"need you to go, go do that."},{"startTime":1206.576,"endTime":1209.196,"body":"I need you to go solve"},{"startTime":1206.576,"endTime":1209.196,"body":"world hunger in 10 days."},{"startTime":1209.226,"endTime":1210.736,"body":"That's a sprint goal, right?"},{"startTime":1210.886,"endTime":1213.696,"body":"And the team could say, well,"},{"startTime":1210.886,"endTime":1213.696,"body":"I don't know about that, right?"},{"startTime":1213.696,"endTime":1217.621,"body":"Well, I mean, I mean, to be fair to the To"},{"startTime":1213.696,"endTime":1217.621,"body":"the, to the example, the North star would"},{"startTime":1217.641,"endTime":1219.751,"body":"be, there are no hungry children on earth."},{"startTime":1219.901,"endTime":1221.671,"body":"That'd be, that'd be the"},{"startTime":1219.901,"endTime":1221.671,"body":"North star, no hungry."},{"startTime":1221.771,"endTime":1225.951,"body":"So, so if I'm going to, if I'm going"},{"startTime":1221.771,"endTime":1225.951,"body":"to publish that as a North star, then"},{"startTime":1225.961,"endTime":1229.781,"body":"we have to have the ability to measure"},{"startTime":1225.961,"endTime":1229.781,"body":"the number of hungry children on earth."},{"startTime":1229.931,"endTime":1231.371,"body":"Right, we, we have to have that."},{"startTime":1231.381,"endTime":1233.891,"body":"Otherwise I can say, how am I going"},{"startTime":1231.381,"endTime":1233.891,"body":"to know that we've achieved our goal?"},{"startTime":1233.911,"endTime":1235.491,"body":"You're not going to know if"},{"startTime":1233.911,"endTime":1235.491,"body":"you've met the goal or not."},{"startTime":1235.511,"endTime":1236.731,"body":"So that's our North Star."},{"startTime":1236.891,"endTime":1238.401,"body":"My goal will be in line with that."},{"startTime":1238.486,"endTime":1242.696,"body":"Yeah, and steal food from all the adults"},{"startTime":1238.486,"endTime":1242.696,"body":"and just feed it to the hungry children."},{"startTime":1242.696,"endTime":1242.766,"body":"That's right."},{"startTime":1242.796,"endTime":1243.966,"body":"Steal food from, uh."},{"startTime":1244.106,"endTime":1245.286,"body":"I don't know."},{"startTime":1245.386,"endTime":1246.626,"body":"That was the first thing I wanted to say."},{"startTime":1246.726,"endTime":1250.346,"body":"Sprint Go is not something that's"},{"startTime":1246.726,"endTime":1250.346,"body":"handed down to your dictated down"},{"startTime":1250.346,"endTime":1252.086,"body":"to the down to the team level."},{"startTime":1252.246,"endTime":1252.446,"body":"Right."},{"startTime":1252.516,"endTime":1255.576,"body":"Um, so that I forgot what the other"},{"startTime":1252.516,"endTime":1255.576,"body":"thing was that I was trying to say now."},{"startTime":1255.776,"endTime":1256.096,"body":"Oh, yeah."},{"startTime":1256.096,"endTime":1256.806,"body":"North Star."},{"startTime":1256.956,"endTime":1258.386,"body":"That term is interesting."},{"startTime":1258.686,"endTime":1260.746,"body":"So we use it all the time in the U."},{"startTime":1260.746,"endTime":1260.956,"body":"S."},{"startTime":1261.096,"endTime":1262.386,"body":"And in Europe, I suspect."},{"startTime":1262.676,"endTime":1265.136,"body":"But if you're south of the equator,"},{"startTime":1262.676,"endTime":1265.136,"body":"is this still a North Star?"},{"startTime":1265.286,"endTime":1265.686,"body":"I don't know."},{"startTime":1265.836,"endTime":1266.366,"body":"Don't they see me?"},{"startTime":1266.366,"endTime":1266.816,"body":"Need more coffee."},{"startTime":1266.966,"endTime":1268.646,"body":"I'm pretty sure they need,"},{"startTime":1266.966,"endTime":1268.646,"body":"yeah, yeah, that's true."},{"startTime":1268.666,"endTime":1269.286,"body":"Need more coffee."},{"startTime":1269.286,"endTime":1269.456,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":1269.536,"endTime":1270.546,"body":"I also need more coffee."},{"startTime":1270.696,"endTime":1273.946,"body":"Anyway, that was a meaningless, like,"},{"startTime":1270.696,"endTime":1273.946,"body":"no, no, it was, it was, that was a"},{"startTime":1273.946,"endTime":1277.746,"body":"good section, because it brings us"},{"startTime":1273.946,"endTime":1277.746,"body":"back to something we come back to"},{"startTime":1277.816,"endTime":1281.706,"body":"a lot on this podcast, which is,"},{"startTime":1277.816,"endTime":1281.706,"body":"your goals are not well defined."},{"startTime":1281.706,"endTime":1283.236,"body":"Oh, why am I goals not defined?"},{"startTime":1283.236,"endTime":1286.886,"body":"Because the business is not really"},{"startTime":1283.236,"endTime":1286.886,"body":"defined a good strategy, like the, the,"},{"startTime":1287.046,"endTime":1289.156,"body":"the, the business doesn't really know."},{"startTime":1289.491,"endTime":1290.391,"body":"where they're going."},{"startTime":1290.691,"endTime":1294.131,"body":"If you ask a business leader, one"},{"startTime":1290.691,"endTime":1294.131,"body":"of your executives, Where do you"},{"startTime":1294.131,"endTime":1297.661,"body":"think my department and the company"},{"startTime":1294.131,"endTime":1297.661,"body":"overall will be three years from now?"},{"startTime":1297.661,"endTime":1299.001,"body":"What does that picture look like?"},{"startTime":1299.051,"endTime":1300.571,"body":"Paint that picture for me, you know?"},{"startTime":1300.661,"endTime":1303.701,"body":"And if they say they don't know or"},{"startTime":1300.661,"endTime":1303.701,"body":"if they say, sold We're gonna sell"},{"startTime":1303.701,"endTime":1304.691,"body":"the business three years from now."},{"startTime":1304.911,"endTime":1305.491,"body":"I won't be here."},{"startTime":1305.491,"endTime":1309.001,"body":"You can just, you can just, yeah You can"},{"startTime":1305.491,"endTime":1309.001,"body":"just be, you can just  be like John Cena."},{"startTime":1309.011,"endTime":1310.371,"body":"Like, you can just walk away."},{"startTime":1310.371,"endTime":1310.681,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":1310.681,"endTime":1315.231,"body":"We focus a lot on the business's like"},{"startTime":1310.681,"endTime":1315.231,"body":"responsibility to bring to the team"},{"startTime":1315.381,"endTime":1319.341,"body":"We have not like I want to turn the"},{"startTime":1315.381,"endTime":1319.341,"body":"mirror around to look back on the"},{"startTime":1319.341,"endTime":1324.841,"body":"team because teams over committing to"},{"startTime":1319.341,"endTime":1324.841,"body":"things, teams over committing to things."},{"startTime":1324.991,"endTime":1330.521,"body":"I've seen this a bunch of times of, a"},{"startTime":1324.991,"endTime":1330.521,"body":"senior developer on the team or just"},{"startTime":1330.521,"endTime":1333.961,"body":"a, just a people pleaser on the team"},{"startTime":1330.521,"endTime":1333.961,"body":"saying, yeah, we can get that done."},{"startTime":1334.121,"endTime":1335.091,"body":"We can come in though."},{"startTime":1335.251,"endTime":1336.381,"body":"You know what, you know"},{"startTime":1335.251,"endTime":1336.381,"body":"what else I think of?"},{"startTime":1336.381,"endTime":1337.121,"body":"I think of teams."},{"startTime":1337.321,"endTime":1340.631,"body":"That constantly the scrum master and"},{"startTime":1337.321,"endTime":1340.631,"body":"the product owner are both saying,"},{"startTime":1340.781,"endTime":1344.231,"body":"Oh, like the last two sprints, the"},{"startTime":1340.781,"endTime":1344.231,"body":"last three sprints, you've, you've,"},{"startTime":1344.271,"endTime":1348.491,"body":"you've turned in six points of work and"},{"startTime":1344.271,"endTime":1348.491,"body":"you've committed to 12 points of work."},{"startTime":1348.641,"endTime":1350.691,"body":"And now you're committing"},{"startTime":1348.641,"endTime":1350.691,"body":"to 20 points of work."},{"startTime":1350.996,"endTime":1354.206,"body":"You guys really, you want to think"},{"startTime":1350.996,"endTime":1354.206,"body":"about that for a minute and the team"},{"startTime":1354.206,"endTime":1356.236,"body":"members are like, No, we got this!"},{"startTime":1356.426,"endTime":1357.686,"body":"It's great!"},{"startTime":1357.956,"endTime":1358.846,"body":"We can do it!"},{"startTime":1358.971,"endTime":1361.081,"body":"I have encountered this quite a bit."},{"startTime":1361.231,"endTime":1364.171,"body":"You know, everything being, I"},{"startTime":1361.231,"endTime":1364.171,"body":"don't know about everything being,"},{"startTime":1364.321,"endTime":1368.081,"body":"everything being priority one meaning"},{"startTime":1364.321,"endTime":1368.081,"body":"the team members feel the urgency."},{"startTime":1368.231,"endTime":1370.421,"body":"So they feel the need to overcommit."},{"startTime":1370.571,"endTime":1371.941,"body":"They feel the need to overcommit."},{"startTime":1371.981,"endTime":1376.161,"body":"And that is also again, going"},{"startTime":1371.981,"endTime":1376.161,"body":"back, I'm beating the same drum,"},{"startTime":1376.161,"endTime":1377.901,"body":"but it's a cultural thing, right?"},{"startTime":1377.901,"endTime":1381.711,"body":"This is, this is what the"},{"startTime":1377.901,"endTime":1381.711,"body":"organization basically, prizes."},{"startTime":1381.931,"endTime":1384.771,"body":"If you prize that you're looking"},{"startTime":1381.931,"endTime":1384.771,"body":"at your team members going,"},{"startTime":1384.771,"endTime":1389.021,"body":"well, you're only committing to"},{"startTime":1384.771,"endTime":1389.021,"body":"65, 70 percent of your capacity."},{"startTime":1389.031,"endTime":1389.751,"body":"What's wrong with you?"},{"startTime":1389.761,"endTime":1390.901,"body":"What are you going to"},{"startTime":1389.761,"endTime":1390.901,"body":"do with the other 30%?"},{"startTime":1391.051,"endTime":1392.741,"body":"You need to build in some slack."},{"startTime":1392.791,"endTime":1397.981,"body":"And so those kinds of cultures lead"},{"startTime":1392.791,"endTime":1397.981,"body":"the team members to overcommit."},{"startTime":1398.131,"endTime":1403.181,"body":"And when you overcommit, seldom do you"},{"startTime":1398.131,"endTime":1403.181,"body":"actually meet that commitment, right?"},{"startTime":1403.301,"endTime":1406.541,"body":"Typically, or more often than not,"},{"startTime":1403.301,"endTime":1406.541,"body":"I should say, you don't meet that."},{"startTime":1406.691,"endTime":1408.461,"body":"So if you don't meet"},{"startTime":1406.691,"endTime":1408.461,"body":"that the first time..."},{"startTime":1408.546,"endTime":1409.976,"body":"Maybe the second or third time."},{"startTime":1410.066,"endTime":1413.366,"body":"You should really look at that"},{"startTime":1410.066,"endTime":1413.366,"body":"and say, how is this helping us?"},{"startTime":1413.516,"endTime":1413.876,"body":"Right."},{"startTime":1414.186,"endTime":1415.356,"body":"It's, it's not helping you."},{"startTime":1415.506,"endTime":1421.736,"body":"Uh, I want to go back just really quickly"},{"startTime":1415.506,"endTime":1421.736,"body":"to this idea of the, organizational goals,"},{"startTime":1421.756,"endTime":1424.136,"body":"business goals, not being well defined."},{"startTime":1424.146,"endTime":1424.436,"body":"Okay."},{"startTime":1424.686,"endTime":1425.805,"body":"If they're not well defined."},{"startTime":1425.996,"endTime":1429.736,"body":"Then, looking at it from that"},{"startTime":1425.996,"endTime":1429.736,"body":"level down, the downstream impact"},{"startTime":1429.736,"endTime":1434.336,"body":"is, none of the stuff underneath"},{"startTime":1429.736,"endTime":1434.336,"body":"that is really crisply defined."},{"startTime":1434.616,"endTime":1437.406,"body":"So you end up with ambiguous sprint"},{"startTime":1434.616,"endTime":1437.406,"body":"goals if you have them at all."},{"startTime":1437.556,"endTime":1440.406,"body":"So what should the team members"},{"startTime":1437.556,"endTime":1440.406,"body":"do here in this case, right?"},{"startTime":1440.631,"endTime":1442.871,"body":"If you're a team member listening"},{"startTime":1440.631,"endTime":1442.871,"body":"to this and watching this"},{"startTime":1442.901,"endTime":1444.291,"body":"podcast, what should you do?"},{"startTime":1444.441,"endTime":1448.271,"body":"Are you within your, are you in your"},{"startTime":1444.441,"endTime":1448.271,"body":"grounds when you say, Hey listen,"},{"startTime":1448.281,"endTime":1450.101,"body":"I'm not clear on the objective."},{"startTime":1450.101,"endTime":1453.231,"body":"I, I see what you're saying, I need to"},{"startTime":1450.101,"endTime":1453.231,"body":"work on this and I need to work on this"},{"startTime":1453.231,"endTime":1454.781,"body":"also because everything's priority one."},{"startTime":1454.931,"endTime":1455.551,"body":"But why?"},{"startTime":1455.851,"endTime":1460.971,"body":"We have these things that were"},{"startTime":1455.851,"endTime":1460.971,"body":"discussed for fiscal year 24, let's say."},{"startTime":1461.121,"endTime":1464.761,"body":"And these things don't necessarily"},{"startTime":1461.121,"endTime":1464.761,"body":"cleanly line up to that."},{"startTime":1465.081,"endTime":1471.161,"body":"Should they be empowered to question those"},{"startTime":1465.081,"endTime":1471.161,"body":"things with whoever mid managers, senior"},{"startTime":1471.161,"endTime":1475.071,"body":"managers, whoever, leadership, right"},{"startTime":1471.161,"endTime":1475.071,"body":"product, whoever it is, that's actually"},{"startTime":1475.111,"endTime":1476.921,"body":"telling them everything's priority one."},{"startTime":1477.251,"endTime":1480.936,"body":"I would say yes, they should"},{"startTime":1477.251,"endTime":1480.936,"body":"feel very safe in saying, I'm"},{"startTime":1480.936,"endTime":1482.786,"body":"not so sure about this, right?"},{"startTime":1482.816,"endTime":1486.936,"body":"Because we say we're doing these"},{"startTime":1482.816,"endTime":1486.936,"body":"things higher up, up here, but"},{"startTime":1486.946,"endTime":1490.336,"body":"all these things don't really add"},{"startTime":1486.946,"endTime":1490.336,"body":"up to us going in that direction."},{"startTime":1490.336,"endTime":1494.826,"body":"It's like saying, well, we want to, we"},{"startTime":1490.336,"endTime":1494.826,"body":"want to navigate to, Tahiti from here."},{"startTime":1495.156,"endTime":1497.495,"body":"And you have a compass, you have a map."},{"startTime":1497.496,"endTime":1500.766,"body":"But your map isn't really taking"},{"startTime":1497.496,"endTime":1500.766,"body":"you in that direction, it's taking"},{"startTime":1500.766,"endTime":1502.576,"body":"you the other way around the world."},{"startTime":1502.916,"endTime":1506.216,"body":"So, so, if you're one of those"},{"startTime":1502.916,"endTime":1506.216,"body":"sailors on that ship, you're"},{"startTime":1506.216,"endTime":1507.626,"body":"well within your rights to say..."},{"startTime":1507.776,"endTime":1510.306,"body":"Wait, right, why are we doing this?"},{"startTime":1510.456,"endTime":1514.156,"body":"If you're not doing that, you're"},{"startTime":1510.456,"endTime":1514.156,"body":"simply at a point where you succumb"},{"startTime":1514.156,"endTime":1519.196,"body":"to whatever people tell you, is"},{"startTime":1514.156,"endTime":1519.196,"body":"priority one, then we basically have"},{"startTime":1519.196,"endTime":1521.196,"body":"failed or we will fail very quickly."},{"startTime":1521.271,"endTime":1522.701,"body":"I don't know if I've experienced that."},{"startTime":1522.761,"endTime":1524.291,"body":"I kind of like it."},{"startTime":1524.531,"endTime":1527.801,"body":"Have you experienced team members"},{"startTime":1524.531,"endTime":1527.801,"body":"feeling empowered to question"},{"startTime":1527.801,"endTime":1529.431,"body":"leadership on the objectives?"},{"startTime":1529.481,"endTime":1530.251,"body":"That's awesome."},{"startTime":1530.341,"endTime":1531.481,"body":"Yes, that's awesome."},{"startTime":1531.491,"endTime":1532.751,"body":"I've seen that one or two times."},{"startTime":1532.751,"endTime":1533.281,"body":"Not all at all."},{"startTime":1533.291,"endTime":1536.781,"body":"Yeah, but also I've also seen"},{"startTime":1533.291,"endTime":1536.781,"body":"and I have also seen entire teams"},{"startTime":1536.831,"endTime":1538.751,"body":"get washed out and, like cut."},{"startTime":1538.901,"endTime":1543.721,"body":"Yeah, I've also seen like the leadership,"},{"startTime":1538.901,"endTime":1543.721,"body":"wanting to, well, let's be honest with"},{"startTime":1543.731,"endTime":1546.691,"body":"management, like cutting the mouthy teams."},{"startTime":1546.841,"endTime":1548.241,"body":"Mouthy teams, not team players."},{"startTime":1548.261,"endTime":1550.631,"body":"Oh, Fred or Mary,"},{"startTime":1548.261,"endTime":1550.631,"body":"they're not team players."},{"startTime":1550.631,"endTime":1555.021,"body":"The people that say, these, these goals,"},{"startTime":1550.631,"endTime":1555.021,"body":"really, do any customers care about these?"},{"startTime":1555.031,"endTime":1557.151,"body":"Or are these just like your pet project?"},{"startTime":1557.151,"endTime":1561.781,"body":"Or, yeah, I've also seen a team"},{"startTime":1557.151,"endTime":1561.781,"body":"who connects with end users"},{"startTime":1562.111,"endTime":1565.721,"body":"and, starts getting viewed as a"},{"startTime":1562.111,"endTime":1565.721,"body":"threat through the organization."},{"startTime":1565.871,"endTime":1568.431,"body":"Through all the channels that"},{"startTime":1565.871,"endTime":1568.431,"body":"normally talk directly to end users."},{"startTime":1568.451,"endTime":1570.911,"body":"Marketing, sales, account management."},{"startTime":1571.241,"endTime":1575.691,"body":"People like people that are, that who"},{"startTime":1571.241,"endTime":1575.691,"body":"should be helping the development teams"},{"startTime":1575.841,"endTime":1582.031,"body":"understand, customer problems and, and,"},{"startTime":1575.841,"endTime":1582.031,"body":"and when what, what, customer issues,"},{"startTime":1582.181,"endTime":1585.641,"body":"are pain points, people who really should"},{"startTime":1582.181,"endTime":1585.641,"body":"be enabling the teams, but they start"},{"startTime":1585.641,"endTime":1589.661,"body":"viewing as those teams start talking"},{"startTime":1585.641,"endTime":1589.661,"body":"directly to customers, they view them as."},{"startTime":1589.756,"endTime":1591.166,"body":"Threats now in the organization."},{"startTime":1591.336,"endTime":1591.606,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":1591.756,"endTime":1591.896,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":1591.896,"endTime":1592.646,"body":"I've seen that too."},{"startTime":1592.646,"endTime":1593.916,"body":"I've seen a lot of bad stuff."},{"startTime":1593.956,"endTime":1594.346,"body":"Oh yeah."},{"startTime":1594.346,"endTime":1594.856,"body":"I agree."},{"startTime":1594.856,"endTime":1599.366,"body":"I mean, your customer support team"},{"startTime":1594.856,"endTime":1599.366,"body":"is prime for, identifying what the"},{"startTime":1599.366,"endTime":1602.916,"body":"pain points are because you talk to"},{"startTime":1599.366,"endTime":1602.916,"body":"them every day, look back and look"},{"startTime":1602.916,"endTime":1605.536,"body":"at all the calls that have come in"},{"startTime":1602.916,"endTime":1605.536,"body":"and say, this is where we're weak."},{"startTime":1605.686,"endTime":1606.046,"body":"Right?"},{"startTime":1606.106,"endTime":1609.826,"body":"Even if it's not specific to a"},{"startTime":1606.106,"endTime":1609.826,"body":"specific call, you know the area"},{"startTime":1609.976,"endTime":1611.616,"body":"and you can kind of bolster that up."},{"startTime":1611.766,"endTime":1614.906,"body":"But yeah, I think all of this"},{"startTime":1611.766,"endTime":1614.906,"body":"just goes back to organizational"},{"startTime":1614.916,"endTime":1618.186,"body":"culture, which is a function of"},{"startTime":1614.916,"endTime":1618.186,"body":"the structure, how it's structured."},{"startTime":1618.236,"endTime":1619.736,"body":"Yeah, but we're not gonna go there."},{"startTime":1619.736,"endTime":1620.306,"body":"That's a different part."},{"startTime":1620.306,"endTime":1623.836,"body":"Well, let's let's let's talk about culture"},{"startTime":1620.306,"endTime":1623.836,"body":"for a second because the organizational"},{"startTime":1623.856,"endTime":1629.116,"body":"culture that you're describing I feel"},{"startTime":1623.856,"endTime":1629.116,"body":"the the career experience that I've had"},{"startTime":1629.116,"endTime":1634.08,"body":"is In a similar organization that you're"},{"startTime":1629.116,"endTime":1634.08,"body":"describing was a very reactive one."},{"startTime":1634.08,"endTime":1637.01,"body":"They never really did anything proactive."},{"startTime":1637.16,"endTime":1640.94,"body":"You know, they, they, they"},{"startTime":1637.16,"endTime":1640.94,"body":"sort of were in this late, late"},{"startTime":1640.95,"endTime":1643.16,"body":"majority type of market segment."},{"startTime":1643.18,"endTime":1643.7,"body":"You know what I mean?"},{"startTime":1643.7,"endTime":1647.16,"body":"The, the, the, the, the people who've"},{"startTime":1643.7,"endTime":1647.16,"body":"kind of cornered the market and they're,"},{"startTime":1647.31,"endTime":1652.1,"body":"they're, innovation is not really a big"},{"startTime":1647.31,"endTime":1652.1,"body":"cornerstone of their development strategy."},{"startTime":1652.44,"endTime":1656.74,"body":"They'll develop new features, but"},{"startTime":1652.44,"endTime":1656.74,"body":"really only so far as they can sell"},{"startTime":1656.74,"endTime":1660.74,"body":"them to their existing customers"},{"startTime":1656.74,"endTime":1660.74,"body":"and kind of cross sell them to other"},{"startTime":1660.74,"endTime":1662.95,"body":"customers that don't have them yet."},{"startTime":1663.21,"endTime":1666.35,"body":"And, and it's a really"},{"startTime":1663.21,"endTime":1666.35,"body":"lazy kind of sales model."},{"startTime":1666.45,"endTime":1667.98,"body":"It's a complacency model, right?"},{"startTime":1667.98,"endTime":1668.36,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":1668.36,"endTime":1670.69,"body":"I mean, yeah, we're, we're"},{"startTime":1668.36,"endTime":1670.69,"body":"a customer going to go."},{"startTime":1670.69,"endTime":1671.61,"body":"They love us, right?"},{"startTime":1671.76,"endTime":1672.97,"body":"And then reality hits one day."},{"startTime":1672.99,"endTime":1677.95,"body":"Well, it's all, it's also, we talked about"},{"startTime":1672.99,"endTime":1677.95,"body":"before, about the, we, we talked about"},{"startTime":1678.14,"endTime":1681.8,"body":"on a previous podcast, I can't remember"},{"startTime":1678.14,"endTime":1681.8,"body":"which podcast it was about this, this"},{"startTime":1681.81,"endTime":1688.18,"body":"black box of, inputs go into the black"},{"startTime":1681.81,"endTime":1688.18,"body":"box and outputs come out of the black"},{"startTime":1688.19,"endTime":1694.38,"body":"box, but the environment affects what,"},{"startTime":1688.19,"endTime":1694.38,"body":"how things are produced out of the, out"},{"startTime":1694.38,"endTime":1696.48,"body":"of the black box and the environment."},{"startTime":1696.63,"endTime":1699.76,"body":"Meaning the business environment"},{"startTime":1696.63,"endTime":1699.76,"body":"around your customers."},{"startTime":1699.76,"endTime":1704.36,"body":"So, as the market changes, as"},{"startTime":1699.76,"endTime":1704.36,"body":"environmental issues, different"},{"startTime":1704.37,"endTime":1708.59,"body":"technologies, different regulatory type"},{"startTime":1704.37,"endTime":1708.59,"body":"of things, different trends in the market,"},{"startTime":1708.74,"endTime":1713.39,"body":"customer preferences, user preferences,"},{"startTime":1708.74,"endTime":1713.39,"body":"as things in the environment affect your,"},{"startTime":1713.44,"endTime":1718.08,"body":"quote, black box, it could impact the"},{"startTime":1713.44,"endTime":1718.08,"body":"normal outputs that you're expecting."},{"startTime":1718.08,"endTime":1720.6,"body":"So, you're doing the same thing"},{"startTime":1718.08,"endTime":1720.6,"body":"you're doing year over year."},{"startTime":1720.755,"endTime":1724.705,"body":"Not changing anything again, because you"},{"startTime":1720.755,"endTime":1724.705,"body":"have a very reactive culture where you"},{"startTime":1724.705,"endTime":1728.265,"body":"really don't, you're not on the, you're"},{"startTime":1724.705,"endTime":1728.265,"body":"not surfing the edge of the wave here."},{"startTime":1728.415,"endTime":1732.495,"body":"You know, you're really just reacting"},{"startTime":1728.415,"endTime":1732.495,"body":"when things, hit your bottom line"},{"startTime":1732.495,"endTime":1735.845,"body":"numbers and, and that reactive culture"},{"startTime":1732.495,"endTime":1735.845,"body":"is sort of what you're describing."},{"startTime":1735.845,"endTime":1737.185,"body":"This isn't like everything"},{"startTime":1735.845,"endTime":1737.185,"body":"you're describing."},{"startTime":1737.195,"endTime":1740.555,"body":"I do not, some, some of the cultures"},{"startTime":1737.195,"endTime":1740.555,"body":"and some of the companies that I've"},{"startTime":1740.555,"endTime":1746.405,"body":"been in, especially the real, real early"},{"startTime":1740.555,"endTime":1746.405,"body":"startup companies, they're not, they"},{"startTime":1746.405,"endTime":1749.675,"body":"don't fall foul of this because they,"},{"startTime":1746.405,"endTime":1749.675,"body":"they, they just don't, if they, if they"},{"startTime":1749.675,"endTime":1754.785,"body":"fell into a reactive mindset, they'd"},{"startTime":1749.675,"endTime":1754.785,"body":"be gone like in months, they'd be gone."},{"startTime":1754.935,"endTime":1755.625,"body":"Yeah, I agree."},{"startTime":1755.625,"endTime":1759.785,"body":"I've seen some of these companies where"},{"startTime":1755.625,"endTime":1759.785,"body":"the startups specifically, right, they"},{"startTime":1759.785,"endTime":1761.475,"body":"don't fall foul of that initially."},{"startTime":1761.625,"endTime":1763.545,"body":"And then they grow and then they grow."},{"startTime":1763.585,"endTime":1764.125,"body":"Oh, yeah."},{"startTime":1764.215,"endTime":1767.705,"body":"And you know, and then they start"},{"startTime":1764.215,"endTime":1767.705,"body":"to succumb a little at a time."},{"startTime":1767.705,"endTime":1769.445,"body":"You've seen that behavior, I'm sure."},{"startTime":1769.595,"endTime":1770.835,"body":"But yeah, absolutely."},{"startTime":1770.835,"endTime":1775.425,"body":"So, I think it's important for anybody"},{"startTime":1770.835,"endTime":1775.425,"body":"who has any role, whether you're a"},{"startTime":1775.425,"endTime":1779.045,"body":"development team member, you're in"},{"startTime":1775.425,"endTime":1779.045,"body":"product, whatever, to feel empowered"},{"startTime":1779.055,"endTime":1783.455,"body":"to question Anytime you're given"},{"startTime":1779.055,"endTime":1783.455,"body":"direction on prioritization, right?"},{"startTime":1783.455,"endTime":1786.755,"body":"These are priority ones or whatever"},{"startTime":1783.455,"endTime":1786.755,"body":"it is to say, how does it align"},{"startTime":1786.755,"endTime":1788.185,"body":"with what we said we would do?"},{"startTime":1788.245,"endTime":1788.565,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":1788.875,"endTime":1793.625,"body":"Um, if it doesn't feel free to ask"},{"startTime":1788.875,"endTime":1793.625,"body":"the question, how does this align?"},{"startTime":1793.635,"endTime":1794.735,"body":"Help me understand."},{"startTime":1794.735,"endTime":1795.505,"body":"Help me help you."},{"startTime":1795.845,"endTime":1800.825,"body":"You know, speaking, asking questions, I"},{"startTime":1795.845,"endTime":1800.825,"body":"kind of pivoted us in this podcast to ask"},{"startTime":1800.825,"endTime":1804.395,"body":"about like, things that were, the team is"},{"startTime":1800.825,"endTime":1804.395,"body":"kind of causing everything to be a P one."},{"startTime":1804.47,"endTime":1809.0,"body":"Communication, is another one where"},{"startTime":1804.47,"endTime":1809.0,"body":"it, when you don't have good, I'm"},{"startTime":1809.005,"endTime":1813.8,"body":"trying, I'm, I'm, I'm fighting very"},{"startTime":1809.005,"endTime":1813.8,"body":"hard to not say scaled when you have"},{"startTime":1813.8,"endTime":1818.03,"body":"a lot of development teams that work"},{"startTime":1813.8,"endTime":1818.03,"body":"together that are interdependent."},{"startTime":1818.09,"endTime":1818.33,"body":"Mm-hmm."},{"startTime":1818.57,"endTime":1819.77,"body":", oh boy, that's a terrible word."},{"startTime":1820.01,"endTime":1821.3,"body":"That are dependent on each other."},{"startTime":1821.45,"endTime":1822.7,"body":"Yeah, they got dependencies."},{"startTime":1822.71,"endTime":1823.25,"body":"See what I did."},{"startTime":1823.28,"endTime":1824.66,"body":"Oh, this is not getting any better."},{"startTime":1824.87,"endTime":1828.53,"body":"Oh, no When you have a lot of teams that"},{"startTime":1824.87,"endTime":1828.53,"body":"work together on a regular basis Mm hmm"},{"startTime":1828.68,"endTime":1833.26,"body":"The the way in which they interact and"},{"startTime":1828.68,"endTime":1833.26,"body":"talk to each other and the way they plan"},{"startTime":1833.26,"endTime":1837.9,"body":"work can cause this Like if somebody is"},{"startTime":1833.26,"endTime":1837.9,"body":"planning something I think of all the"},{"startTime":1837.91,"endTime":1843.72,"body":"scaled Sessions that I've ever gone to and"},{"startTime":1837.91,"endTime":1843.72,"body":"there's always a team that is like we're"},{"startTime":1844.05,"endTime":1847.92,"body":"we want to start this work But we don't"},{"startTime":1844.05,"endTime":1847.92,"body":"have this one thing from this other team."},{"startTime":1848.07,"endTime":1851.34,"body":"We need you to get it done as fast"},{"startTime":1848.07,"endTime":1851.34,"body":"as possible Yeah, oh we're blocked."},{"startTime":1851.49,"endTime":1854.66,"body":"Yeah, I think of like a scale daily"},{"startTime":1851.49,"endTime":1854.66,"body":"scrum We're blocked on this item."},{"startTime":1854.86,"endTime":1856.03,"body":"We need you to finish it."},{"startTime":1856.18,"endTime":1857.81,"body":"Well, we're working on this other thing."},{"startTime":1857.82,"endTime":1858.83,"body":"It's a higher priority."},{"startTime":1859.12,"endTime":1862.32,"body":"Well, we can't start unless,"},{"startTime":1859.12,"endTime":1862.32,"body":"now we have a, a situation."},{"startTime":1862.64,"endTime":1866.02,"body":"You know, somebody from leadership"},{"startTime":1862.64,"endTime":1866.02,"body":"in that session is, is like, what's"},{"startTime":1866.03,"endTime":1869.65,"body":"the takeaway from the, what's the"},{"startTime":1866.03,"endTime":1869.65,"body":"action item that has to be resolved"},{"startTime":1869.82,"endTime":1871.0,"body":"before the next time we meet?"},{"startTime":1871.15,"endTime":1875.47,"body":"I mean, you're taking off the table for"},{"startTime":1871.15,"endTime":1875.47,"body":"a second that why don't we just both go"},{"startTime":1875.47,"endTime":1879.63,"body":"talk to the stakeholders in in both of"},{"startTime":1875.47,"endTime":1879.63,"body":"the activities that we're engaged in?"},{"startTime":1879.81,"endTime":1882.96,"body":"Well, the thing that's blocked and the"},{"startTime":1879.81,"endTime":1882.96,"body":"thing that we're doing is a top priority."},{"startTime":1882.97,"endTime":1888.06,"body":"And then why don't we involve the"},{"startTime":1882.97,"endTime":1888.06,"body":"end users, the customers, and maybe"},{"startTime":1888.06,"endTime":1890.79,"body":"management or other teams or whoever"},{"startTime":1888.06,"endTime":1890.79,"body":"we need to product right product."},{"startTime":1890.915,"endTime":1895.355,"body":"but, this, this, without a, a good,"},{"startTime":1890.915,"endTime":1895.355,"body":"because again, most people don't have"},{"startTime":1895.355,"endTime":1899.855,"body":"Scrum Masters in this, so without a"},{"startTime":1895.355,"endTime":1899.855,"body":"good facilitator, and without a good"},{"startTime":1899.865,"endTime":1902.385,"body":"framework, so, so, double trouble."},{"startTime":1902.475,"endTime":1905.415,"body":"You don't have a good"},{"startTime":1902.475,"endTime":1905.415,"body":"framework to handle this."},{"startTime":1905.565,"endTime":1908.325,"body":"Because maybe you're trying to"},{"startTime":1905.565,"endTime":1908.325,"body":"scale things, and maybe you don't"},{"startTime":1908.325,"endTime":1911.275,"body":"have a framework, and maybe some"},{"startTime":1908.325,"endTime":1911.275,"body":"teams use Scrum, some teams use"},{"startTime":1911.275,"endTime":1915.525,"body":"Kanban, some teams use Chaos, some"},{"startTime":1911.275,"endTime":1915.525,"body":"teams use, do whatever I say, Mr."},{"startTime":1915.525,"endTime":1915.935,"body":"Manager."},{"startTime":1916.235,"endTime":1918.775,"body":"And then, maybe you don't have"},{"startTime":1916.235,"endTime":1918.775,"body":"Scrum Masters, because your company"},{"startTime":1918.775,"endTime":1919.725,"body":"can't afford it, or whatever."},{"startTime":1919.725,"endTime":1922.645,"body":"And then maybe some teams use a product,"},{"startTime":1919.725,"endTime":1922.645,"body":"and some teams don't, and some teams do."},{"startTime":1922.795,"endTime":1926.605,"body":", because different teams operate"},{"startTime":1922.795,"endTime":1926.605,"body":"differently, the communication"},{"startTime":1926.605,"endTime":1928.565,"body":"method now gets all muddled."},{"startTime":1928.715,"endTime":1933.915,"body":"So what should be, if it was a bunch of"},{"startTime":1928.715,"endTime":1933.915,"body":"teams using Scrum who all plan together,"},{"startTime":1934.195,"endTime":1938.295,"body":"who all talk together every day, who"},{"startTime":1934.195,"endTime":1938.295,"body":"went through the scale daily Scrums"},{"startTime":1938.345,"endTime":1941.38,"body":"type of questions, like Are you about"},{"startTime":1938.345,"endTime":1941.38,"body":"to do something that's gonna block me?"},{"startTime":1941.56,"endTime":1943.12,"body":"Are you doing anything"},{"startTime":1941.56,"endTime":1943.12,"body":"Now it's blocking me."},{"startTime":1943.15,"endTime":1944.74,"body":"Am I about to do"},{"startTime":1943.15,"endTime":1944.74,"body":"something that blocks you?"},{"startTime":1944.92,"endTime":1946.54,"body":"You know, if they were walking"},{"startTime":1944.92,"endTime":1946.54,"body":"through some basic questions like"},{"startTime":1946.54,"endTime":1949.24,"body":"that, they would identify it quickly"},{"startTime":1946.54,"endTime":1949.24,"body":"and they'd know, oh, we gotta take"},{"startTime":1949.24,"endTime":1950.53,"body":"this offline, we gotta talk about it."},{"startTime":1950.68,"endTime":1952.21,"body":"But they don't have that structure."},{"startTime":1952.42,"endTime":1956.86,"body":"So communication, like an ineffective"},{"startTime":1952.42,"endTime":1956.86,"body":"method of communication because the way"},{"startTime":1956.86,"endTime":1961.33,"body":"their teams, organization, whatever it is,"},{"startTime":1956.86,"endTime":1961.33,"body":"is designed, is kind of sabotaging them."},{"startTime":1961.48,"endTime":1962.08,"body":"Absolutely."},{"startTime":1962.08,"endTime":1962.38,"body":"Right."},{"startTime":1962.41,"endTime":1966.14,"body":"Uh, it, but you know, I would just say"},{"startTime":1962.41,"endTime":1966.14,"body":"that it isn't just, that all of these"},{"startTime":1966.29,"endTime":1969.66,"body":"teams need to follow scrum in order"},{"startTime":1966.29,"endTime":1969.66,"body":"to do this synchronization, right?"},{"startTime":1969.66,"endTime":1971.63,"body":"They can, they can do"},{"startTime":1969.66,"endTime":1971.63,"body":"whatever your point, though."},{"startTime":1971.95,"endTime":1977.23,"body":"You need an effective communication system"},{"startTime":1971.95,"endTime":1977.23,"body":"in place where people feel empowered to"},{"startTime":1977.23,"endTime":1981.96,"body":"speak up and ask questions and then say,"},{"startTime":1977.23,"endTime":1981.96,"body":"you're blocked, so we can't proceed."},{"startTime":1982.19,"endTime":1984.16,"body":"But this other team's already"},{"startTime":1982.19,"endTime":1984.16,"body":"working on something else."},{"startTime":1984.31,"endTime":1987.7,"body":"The question is, at that"},{"startTime":1984.31,"endTime":1987.7,"body":"point, what do you do, right?"},{"startTime":1987.72,"endTime":1990.0,"body":"Who is the, who is the arbiter?"},{"startTime":1990.01,"endTime":1992.41,"body":"Who's gonna say, do"},{"startTime":1990.01,"endTime":1992.41,"body":"this, do that, instead?"},{"startTime":1992.56,"endTime":1997.64,"body":"And, if you don't have a system in place,"},{"startTime":1992.56,"endTime":1997.64,"body":"what's gonna happen is, the loudest voice,"},{"startTime":1997.67,"endTime":2001.01,"body":"you've seen these people, they're gonna"},{"startTime":1997.67,"endTime":2001.01,"body":"say, Oh, I think we need to do this."},{"startTime":2001.16,"endTime":2002.15,"body":"And then, when..."},{"startTime":2002.3,"endTime":2004.71,"body":"That doesn't work out as it often doesn't."},{"startTime":2004.975,"endTime":2008.535,"body":"they are not in the room"},{"startTime":2004.975,"endTime":2008.535,"body":"when, questions are asked."},{"startTime":2008.685,"endTime":2009.825,"body":"Well, you did this."},{"startTime":2009.975,"endTime":2010.925,"body":"She told me to do it."},{"startTime":2011.035,"endTime":2013.295,"body":"Yeah, I wanted you to consider everything."},{"startTime":2013.305,"endTime":2014.015,"body":"You didn't do it."},{"startTime":2014.245,"endTime":2017.005,"body":"It's, it's, it's basically a blame"},{"startTime":2014.245,"endTime":2017.005,"body":"culture at that point, right?"},{"startTime":2017.305,"endTime":2019.085,"body":"So how do you avoid that?"},{"startTime":2019.235,"endTime":2019.995,"body":"That's one question."},{"startTime":2020.005,"endTime":2022.995,"body":"The other question is, what do you"},{"startTime":2020.005,"endTime":2022.995,"body":"learn from this so that you don't"},{"startTime":2023.005,"endTime":2027.125,"body":"repeat this again in the next print,"},{"startTime":2023.005,"endTime":2027.125,"body":"next PI, whatever you're using?"},{"startTime":2027.355,"endTime":2028.525,"body":"The next increment."},{"startTime":2028.675,"endTime":2030.645,"body":"How do you make sure"},{"startTime":2028.675,"endTime":2030.645,"body":"you don't repeat this?"},{"startTime":2030.685,"endTime":2035.505,"body":"Is there a system in place where you can"},{"startTime":2030.685,"endTime":2035.505,"body":"look back and say, Oh, wow, this happened?"},{"startTime":2035.655,"endTime":2036.945,"body":"How could we have avoided that?"},{"startTime":2036.955,"endTime":2038.295,"body":"How can we avoid in the future?"},{"startTime":2038.37,"endTime":2042.2,"body":"So I think overall, when you have again,"},{"startTime":2038.37,"endTime":2042.2,"body":"I'm not gonna use the s word when you"},{"startTime":2042.2,"endTime":2044.44,"body":"have multiple teams working together."},{"startTime":2044.59,"endTime":2049.26,"body":"It is important to have This discussion,"},{"startTime":2044.59,"endTime":2049.26,"body":"this dialogue at specific points and not"},{"startTime":2049.26,"endTime":2051.74,"body":"get hung up on a it's not a scrum event."},{"startTime":2051.74,"endTime":2053.81,"body":"So we shouldn't waste"},{"startTime":2051.74,"endTime":2053.81,"body":"time on this meeting."},{"startTime":2053.96,"endTime":2054.77,"body":"I've seen that, too."},{"startTime":2054.79,"endTime":2056.82,"body":"These are what I call"},{"startTime":2054.79,"endTime":2056.82,"body":"scrum guardians, right?"},{"startTime":2056.85,"endTime":2058.92,"body":"These people that say"},{"startTime":2056.85,"endTime":2058.92,"body":"it's not in the scrum guy."},{"startTime":2059.07,"endTime":2064.93,"body":"Yeah, well, I mean, I think  The more"},{"startTime":2059.07,"endTime":2064.93,"body":"important thing here is to have a, is to"},{"startTime":2064.94,"endTime":2068.75,"body":"be lightweight enough to have an ad hoc."},{"startTime":2068.9,"endTime":2072.26,"body":"I don't even want to call it a"},{"startTime":2068.9,"endTime":2072.26,"body":"system because it's not a system."},{"startTime":2072.26,"endTime":2076.54,"body":"If it's ad hoc, to have an ad hoc"},{"startTime":2072.26,"endTime":2076.54,"body":"process to say, whenever we have."},{"startTime":2076.73,"endTime":2080.55,"body":"Disagreement or whenever we whenever"},{"startTime":2076.73,"endTime":2080.55,"body":"we agree that we're out of alignment"},{"startTime":2080.7,"endTime":2084.67,"body":"we need to go get the stakeholders"},{"startTime":2080.7,"endTime":2084.67,"body":"bring them into the room, and"},{"startTime":2084.92,"endTime":2087.42,"body":"and Drive through to a decision."},{"startTime":2087.48,"endTime":2088.35,"body":"Yeah, talk it out."},{"startTime":2088.4,"endTime":2088.84,"body":"Exactly."},{"startTime":2088.84,"endTime":2089.09,"body":"Right?"},{"startTime":2089.09,"endTime":2091.42,"body":"Yeah, that's the arbiter"},{"startTime":2089.09,"endTime":2091.42,"body":"role that I mentioned, right?"},{"startTime":2091.42,"endTime":2093.38,"body":"Yeah It's not a person that's doing that."},{"startTime":2093.38,"endTime":2095.28,"body":"It's not a person that said"},{"startTime":2093.38,"endTime":2095.28,"body":"do don't do this do this."},{"startTime":2095.28,"endTime":2096.81,"body":"It's Mutual consensus."},{"startTime":2096.83,"endTime":2097.64,"body":"No discussion."},{"startTime":2097.76,"endTime":2101.56,"body":"It's not, well, it will, I mean, like"},{"startTime":2097.76,"endTime":2101.56,"body":"where I want to, where I want to crowbar"},{"startTime":2101.56,"endTime":2103.47,"body":"this apart is it's not an arbiter."},{"startTime":2103.62,"endTime":2106.41,"body":"Because you probably have product"},{"startTime":2103.62,"endTime":2106.41,"body":"people on each team to make a decision."},{"startTime":2106.74,"endTime":2108.03,"body":"Hopefully, hopefully you do."},{"startTime":2108.04,"endTime":2109.72,"body":"Even if you don't have"},{"startTime":2108.04,"endTime":2109.72,"body":"product people on each team."},{"startTime":2109.88,"endTime":2110.97,"body":"You have team members."},{"startTime":2111.13,"endTime":2112.35,"body":"They can come to a conclusion."},{"startTime":2112.57,"endTime":2114.92,"body":"They will hear the right solution"},{"startTime":2112.57,"endTime":2114.92,"body":"when they're talking to it."},{"startTime":2114.92,"endTime":2118.51,"body":"So I assume the team can make this"},{"startTime":2114.92,"endTime":2118.51,"body":"distinction and figure it out."},{"startTime":2118.66,"endTime":2119.3,"body":"However..."},{"startTime":2119.45,"endTime":2124.61,"body":"It's the facilitation of the session"},{"startTime":2119.45,"endTime":2124.61,"body":"that someone has to drive for someone"},{"startTime":2124.61,"endTime":2129.36,"body":"has to own to drive forward like"},{"startTime":2124.61,"endTime":2129.36,"body":"I Will facilitate this through to"},{"startTime":2129.39,"endTime":2133.64,"body":"conclusion to to to decision to"},{"startTime":2129.39,"endTime":2133.64,"body":"conclusion to something, right?"},{"startTime":2133.9,"endTime":2138.105,"body":"Yeah, and in that scenario Uh, where you"},{"startTime":2133.9,"endTime":2138.105,"body":"have multiple teams working together."},{"startTime":2138.185,"endTime":2139.485,"body":"Who is that facilitator?"},{"startTime":2139.685,"endTime":2143.875,"body":"Most scrum masters aren't really,"},{"startTime":2139.685,"endTime":2143.875,"body":"feeling like they can, go beyond"},{"startTime":2143.875,"endTime":2148.485,"body":"their team to say, let me step in and"},{"startTime":2143.875,"endTime":2148.485,"body":"I'll facilitate a true facilitator."},{"startTime":2148.485,"endTime":2150.015,"body":"It wouldn't have an agenda going into it."},{"startTime":2150.015,"endTime":2152.045,"body":"I mean, that, that, that is a problem."},{"startTime":2152.195,"endTime":2155.365,"body":"The scrum, like the scrum master"},{"startTime":2152.195,"endTime":2155.365,"body":"is the perfect person to do that."},{"startTime":2155.365,"endTime":2156.735,"body":"And most people don't have the benefit."},{"startTime":2157.08,"endTime":2160.96,"body":"Of having a Scrum Master to go"},{"startTime":2157.08,"endTime":2160.96,"body":"out and do that kind of stuff."},{"startTime":2161.11,"endTime":2163.49,"body":"Which would be fantastic"},{"startTime":2161.11,"endTime":2163.49,"body":"if everyone had that."},{"startTime":2163.64,"endTime":2166.25,"body":"I mean, in lieu of having"},{"startTime":2163.64,"endTime":2166.25,"body":"a dedicated Scrum Master."},{"startTime":2166.4,"endTime":2170.27,"body":"It's gonna fall on a team member"},{"startTime":2166.4,"endTime":2170.27,"body":"most likely, or a product person"},{"startTime":2170.27,"endTime":2174.62,"body":"or a, engineering lead or somebody"},{"startTime":2170.27,"endTime":2174.62,"body":"like that to do, to do that,"},{"startTime":2174.82,"endTime":2176.54,"body":"to, to play that role basically."},{"startTime":2176.54,"endTime":2176.72,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":2176.87,"endTime":2177.02,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":2177.02,"endTime":2179.63,"body":"You know, but y yeah, you need"},{"startTime":2177.02,"endTime":2179.63,"body":"an advanced facilitator to say,"},{"startTime":2179.78,"endTime":2182.81,"body":"I obviously see there's a little"},{"startTime":2179.78,"endTime":2182.81,"body":"bit that you guys have to decide."},{"startTime":2182.815,"endTime":2184.28,"body":"There's a little bit that"},{"startTime":2182.815,"endTime":2184.28,"body":"you guys have to decide."},{"startTime":2184.31,"endTime":2186.47,"body":"We're all, we're all trying"},{"startTime":2184.31,"endTime":2186.47,"body":"to be on the same page."},{"startTime":2186.62,"endTime":2189.06,"body":"Let me figure out all the stakeholders"},{"startTime":2186.62,"endTime":2189.06,"body":"that need to be in the room and"},{"startTime":2189.06,"endTime":2192.62,"body":"let me just get everybody in the"},{"startTime":2189.06,"endTime":2192.62,"body":"room At our first opportunity to"},{"startTime":2192.62,"endTime":2196.34,"body":"figure it out and the trade off"},{"startTime":2192.62,"endTime":2196.34,"body":"is now we've delayed this decision"},{"startTime":2196.49,"endTime":2201.16,"body":"You know, again, assuming product can't"},{"startTime":2196.49,"endTime":2201.16,"body":"just pick, yeah, because if I, if I was,"},{"startTime":2201.31,"endTime":2205.45,"body":"I will tell you now, not to like, now that"},{"startTime":2201.31,"endTime":2205.45,"body":"we've gone all around the world, I'll tell"},{"startTime":2205.45,"endTime":2210.34,"body":"you how I feel about this is I will pick"},{"startTime":2205.45,"endTime":2210.34,"body":"a decision and if I made a bad decision,"},{"startTime":2210.69,"endTime":2214.96,"body":"it'll be cheaper to make a bad decision"},{"startTime":2210.69,"endTime":2214.96,"body":"and then correct it than the cost of delay"},{"startTime":2214.98,"endTime":2218.68,"body":"of waiting whatever we can have to get"},{"startTime":2214.98,"endTime":2218.68,"body":"the stakeholders because all these people"},{"startTime":2218.68,"endTime":2221.98,"body":"are in different time zones and my team"},{"startTime":2218.68,"endTime":2221.98,"body":"and then that team and then they got to"},{"startTime":2221.99,"endTime":2223.55,"body":"stop work and then I got to stop work."},{"startTime":2223.7,"endTime":2224.57,"body":"I'm not doing all that."},{"startTime":2224.7,"endTime":2227.89,"body":"I'm gonna, I'm gonna make a decision"},{"startTime":2224.7,"endTime":2227.89,"body":"and then that's what we're gonna do."},{"startTime":2228.21,"endTime":2231.49,"body":"So you feel empowered to basically put"},{"startTime":2228.21,"endTime":2231.49,"body":"your neck on the, in the noose, right?"},{"startTime":2231.51,"endTime":2233.36,"body":"And that's great because"},{"startTime":2231.51,"endTime":2233.36,"body":"that's how it should be."},{"startTime":2233.42,"endTime":2238.91,"body":"A culture that penalizes that will"},{"startTime":2233.42,"endTime":2238.91,"body":"propagate the other side of it, which"},{"startTime":2238.91,"endTime":2242.61,"body":"is nobody's gonna make a decision"},{"startTime":2238.91,"endTime":2242.61,"body":"because they're too afraid to be fired."},{"startTime":2242.76,"endTime":2243.26,"body":"I understand."},{"startTime":2243.57,"endTime":2246.47,"body":"Well, again, the organization that"},{"startTime":2243.57,"endTime":2246.47,"body":"you're describing now probably"},{"startTime":2246.47,"endTime":2250.29,"body":"does not have strong product"},{"startTime":2246.47,"endTime":2250.29,"body":"practices and probably won't."},{"startTime":2250.44,"endTime":2251.29,"body":"Probably will never."},{"startTime":2251.44,"endTime":2253.8,"body":"Yeah, it's just not in their org culture."},{"startTime":2253.81,"endTime":2257.28,"body":"Yeah, it's probably not within"},{"startTime":2253.81,"endTime":2257.28,"body":"their organizational DNA."},{"startTime":2257.28,"endTime":2260.28,"body":"You know, the other thing that"},{"startTime":2257.28,"endTime":2260.28,"body":"we didn't talk about is constant"},{"startTime":2260.62,"endTime":2262.82,"body":"crushing pressure from leadership."},{"startTime":2262.97,"endTime":2264.94,"body":"Everything is priority one all the time."},{"startTime":2265.015,"endTime":2268.155,"body":"I had a CTO one time that used"},{"startTime":2265.015,"endTime":2268.155,"body":"to be a developer and he would"},{"startTime":2268.155,"endTime":2270.475,"body":"constantly second guess the teams."},{"startTime":2270.625,"endTime":2272.565,"body":"You said, it's going to take"},{"startTime":2270.625,"endTime":2272.565,"body":"you a whole sprint to do that."},{"startTime":2272.565,"endTime":2273.405,"body":"And the sprint is two weeks."},{"startTime":2273.405,"endTime":2275.525,"body":"He's like, I could get"},{"startTime":2273.405,"endTime":2275.525,"body":"that done in three days."},{"startTime":2275.805,"endTime":2276.935,"body":"What's going to take you so long?"},{"startTime":2277.235,"endTime":2278.285,"body":"Why is it taking so long?"},{"startTime":2278.435,"endTime":2279.725,"body":"You can commit to both of these."},{"startTime":2279.805,"endTime":2283.555,"body":"You can commit 60 points of velocity"},{"startTime":2279.805,"endTime":2283.555,"body":"when you normally could do 40."},{"startTime":2283.705,"endTime":2284.645,"body":"You can do 60."},{"startTime":2284.795,"endTime":2285.815,"body":"I believe you can do it."},{"startTime":2285.965,"endTime":2287.005,"body":"Come on, you can do it."},{"startTime":2287.045,"endTime":2287.275,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":2287.275,"endTime":2290.825,"body":"That overt pressure is very,"},{"startTime":2287.275,"endTime":2290.825,"body":"very common from people that."},{"startTime":2291.44,"endTime":2293.92,"body":"You used to that role"},{"startTime":2291.44,"endTime":2293.92,"body":"before, like you said, right?"},{"startTime":2294.07,"endTime":2297.61,"body":"It's, it's, it's possible that"},{"startTime":2294.07,"endTime":2297.61,"body":"when they did that, they were using"},{"startTime":2297.61,"endTime":2299.34,"body":"different technologies or whatever else."},{"startTime":2299.62,"endTime":2300.9,"body":"I mean, it's just not the same thing."},{"startTime":2300.91,"endTime":2304.72,"body":"I've also had, leadership that when"},{"startTime":2300.91,"endTime":2304.72,"body":"they set dates, uh, big conferences,"},{"startTime":2304.87,"endTime":2307.95,"body":"or big sales opportunities or whatever,"},{"startTime":2304.87,"endTime":2307.95,"body":"oh, I've got to get the latest and"},{"startTime":2307.95,"endTime":2311.45,"body":"greatest into production by, the,"},{"startTime":2307.95,"endTime":2311.45,"body":"the, the 25th of this month because"},{"startTime":2311.45,"endTime":2313.38,"body":"that's when my big demo is the 25th."},{"startTime":2313.69,"endTime":2316.88,"body":"So of course if they'd set the 25th and"},{"startTime":2313.69,"endTime":2316.88,"body":"they have a project manager works on"},{"startTime":2316.88,"endTime":2318.46,"body":"them, the project manager sets the 25th."},{"startTime":2318.46,"endTime":2323.18,"body":"If they said the 25th and the project"},{"startTime":2318.46,"endTime":2323.18,"body":"manager sets the 23rd and then The product"},{"startTime":2323.21,"endTime":2326.9,"body":"owner to the project manager sets the"},{"startTime":2323.21,"endTime":2326.9,"body":"22nd and then all the built in buffers."},{"startTime":2326.9,"endTime":2329.74,"body":"Yeah, everyone builds in a buffer"},{"startTime":2326.9,"endTime":2329.74,"body":"and then you get a ridiculous,"},{"startTime":2330.09,"endTime":2331.25,"body":"Oh, it's got to be done in a day."},{"startTime":2331.33,"endTime":2333.97,"body":"It's got to be in today,"},{"startTime":2331.33,"endTime":2333.97,"body":"by the end of today, right?"},{"startTime":2334.31,"endTime":2338.51,"body":"Um, but, but look, all of this"},{"startTime":2334.31,"endTime":2338.51,"body":"is bundled under, leadership."},{"startTime":2338.66,"endTime":2343.43,"body":"Puts the pressure on, and I feel inherent"},{"startTime":2338.66,"endTime":2343.43,"body":"in this, in this question of, question."},{"startTime":2343.65,"endTime":2348.82,"body":"I feel inherent within this, this, this"},{"startTime":2343.65,"endTime":2348.82,"body":"topic, topic of leadership, putting"},{"startTime":2348.82,"endTime":2353.05,"body":"the question, putting the pressure"},{"startTime":2348.82,"endTime":2353.05,"body":"on also is leadership not trusting"},{"startTime":2353.05,"endTime":2355.22,"body":"that if they don't put pressure"},{"startTime":2353.05,"endTime":2355.22,"body":"on, nothing's going to get done."},{"startTime":2355.37,"endTime":2356.93,"body":"That, that's, that's what I feel like."},{"startTime":2357.1,"endTime":2362.19,"body":"We don't, we podcast, guys, because I've"},{"startTime":2357.1,"endTime":2362.19,"body":"had a lot of leadership team members."},{"startTime":2362.315,"endTime":2366.215,"body":"I referenced one just now, who was a"},{"startTime":2362.315,"endTime":2366.215,"body":"developer, so they did understand, but"},{"startTime":2366.225,"endTime":2369.595,"body":"most of the people that do this, do not"},{"startTime":2366.225,"endTime":2369.595,"body":"have development backgrounds, they don't"},{"startTime":2369.635,"endTime":2374.805,"body":"understand software development, so they,"},{"startTime":2369.635,"endTime":2374.805,"body":"because they don't understand That's why"},{"startTime":2375.025,"endTime":2376.635,"body":"they're micromanaging these deadlines."},{"startTime":2376.725,"endTime":2379.245,"body":"That's why they're putting the pressure"},{"startTime":2376.725,"endTime":2379.245,"body":"on it, because they don't understand."},{"startTime":2379.395,"endTime":2382.725,"body":"What are you, what are you"},{"startTime":2379.395,"endTime":2382.725,"body":"doing for two, three weeks?"},{"startTime":2382.875,"endTime":2383.965,"body":"I say two, three weeks."},{"startTime":2384.115,"endTime":2387.645,"body":"Reality, two, three months of going off."},{"startTime":2387.795,"endTime":2388.075,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":2388.135,"endTime":2389.645,"body":"And saying I'm building something."},{"startTime":2389.745,"endTime":2393.115,"body":"And then, and then me, the"},{"startTime":2389.745,"endTime":2393.115,"body":"end user, seeing nothing."},{"startTime":2393.265,"endTime":2393.565,"body":"Okay."},{"startTime":2393.715,"endTime":2395.595,"body":"That's why they're"},{"startTime":2393.715,"endTime":2395.595,"body":"pushing back against that."},{"startTime":2395.605,"endTime":2396.495,"body":"That's, that's what I think."},{"startTime":2396.675,"endTime":2397.535,"body":"That lack of trust."},{"startTime":2397.685,"endTime":2399.965,"body":"And the reason that"},{"startTime":2397.685,"endTime":2399.965,"body":"leadership is riding the team."},{"startTime":2400.115,"endTime":2403.485,"body":"Is because they have that lack of"},{"startTime":2400.115,"endTime":2403.485,"body":"trust and there isn't communication."},{"startTime":2403.835,"endTime":2406.005,"body":"There's a lot of stuff we've already"},{"startTime":2403.835,"endTime":2406.005,"body":"talked about on this podcast."},{"startTime":2406.105,"endTime":2410.545,"body":"This is a lose lose because there's"},{"startTime":2406.105,"endTime":2410.545,"body":"really no, no trust from leadership."},{"startTime":2410.895,"endTime":2415.635,"body":"And then they, the teams feel pressured"},{"startTime":2410.895,"endTime":2415.635,"body":"because of these artificial deadlines"},{"startTime":2415.675,"endTime":2417.165,"body":"that are imposed upon them, right?"},{"startTime":2417.315,"endTime":2418.725,"body":"So, two things will happen."},{"startTime":2418.745,"endTime":2419.915,"body":"One of two things will happen."},{"startTime":2419.965,"endTime":2424.155,"body":"Teams will just say, some team members"},{"startTime":2419.965,"endTime":2424.155,"body":"that really kind of care about the"},{"startTime":2424.155,"endTime":2427.935,"body":"quality of the work they put out, they'll"},{"startTime":2424.155,"endTime":2427.935,"body":"say, it just can't be done, right?"},{"startTime":2428.175,"endTime":2430.415,"body":"And they'll get yelled at"},{"startTime":2428.175,"endTime":2430.415,"body":"and then they'll leave."},{"startTime":2430.565,"endTime":2433.085,"body":"Or, the other thing that'll"},{"startTime":2430.565,"endTime":2433.085,"body":"happen is, people will just"},{"startTime":2433.095,"endTime":2434.505,"body":"say, you want it done by then?"},{"startTime":2434.525,"endTime":2435.595,"body":"I'll just get it done by then."},{"startTime":2435.745,"endTime":2437.185,"body":"To hell with the quality, right?"},{"startTime":2437.335,"endTime":2439.135,"body":"I'll just check the box, right?"},{"startTime":2439.135,"endTime":2439.915,"body":"It was done."},{"startTime":2440.065,"endTime":2441.315,"body":"I didn't think that was"},{"startTime":2440.065,"endTime":2441.315,"body":"where you were going."},{"startTime":2441.615,"endTime":2445.855,"body":"Where I thought you were going was"},{"startTime":2441.615,"endTime":2445.855,"body":"that developer who stays up and burns a"},{"startTime":2445.855,"endTime":2447.965,"body":"midnight oil and works on the weekends."},{"startTime":2448.015,"endTime":2449.075,"body":"Yeah, works on the weekends."},{"startTime":2449.085,"endTime":2450.975,"body":"Works on the weekends and"},{"startTime":2449.085,"endTime":2450.975,"body":"burns a candle at both ends."},{"startTime":2451.055,"endTime":2451.635,"body":"I've seen both."},{"startTime":2451.785,"endTime":2453.575,"body":"Both situations you just described."},{"startTime":2453.735,"endTime":2454.545,"body":"Actually, all three."},{"startTime":2454.695,"endTime":2456.285,"body":"You described three situations."},{"startTime":2456.425,"endTime":2457.785,"body":"The person says, I'm not doing this."},{"startTime":2457.815,"endTime":2459.475,"body":"And then they get put on the..."},{"startTime":2459.63,"endTime":2461.57,"body":"quote, difficult to work with list."},{"startTime":2461.61,"endTime":2462.01,"body":"That's right."},{"startTime":2462.05,"endTime":2462.97,"body":"No team player."},{"startTime":2462.98,"endTime":2464.22,"body":"He's not a team player."},{"startTime":2464.335,"endTime":2468.145,"body":"And then the, the other two situations"},{"startTime":2464.335,"endTime":2468.145,"body":"were the, the, the person who says,"},{"startTime":2468.325,"endTime":2469.94,"body":"okay, I'll just throw something out."},{"startTime":2470.09,"endTime":2470.41,"body":"Yep."},{"startTime":2470.56,"endTime":2472.86,"body":"And then the last person is the"},{"startTime":2470.56,"endTime":2472.86,"body":"person who's burning the midnight"},{"startTime":2472.86,"endTime":2474.83,"body":"oil and saying we can do that, right?"},{"startTime":2474.91,"endTime":2477.81,"body":"I went here way way way early in the"},{"startTime":2474.91,"endTime":2477.81,"body":"podcast that the person who just says"},{"startTime":2477.94,"endTime":2482.97,"body":"yes to everything Like mainly it's been"},{"startTime":2477.94,"endTime":2482.97,"body":"developers on my team But I've seen"},{"startTime":2482.97,"endTime":2487.15,"body":"the occasional product owner who just"},{"startTime":2482.97,"endTime":2487.15,"body":"says yes to everything and just passes"},{"startTime":2487.39,"endTime":2491.61,"body":"all those priority ones Through to the"},{"startTime":2487.39,"endTime":2491.61,"body":"team the backlog managers right point."},{"startTime":2491.63,"endTime":2495.56,"body":"They're not really product But I will"},{"startTime":2491.63,"endTime":2495.56,"body":"tell you like a career wise I've seen"},{"startTime":2495.57,"endTime":2501.0,"body":"developers on the team do this way"},{"startTime":2495.57,"endTime":2501.0,"body":"more than product people, way more."},{"startTime":2501.02,"endTime":2504.16,"body":"And I, I, I, I will tell you,"},{"startTime":2501.02,"endTime":2504.16,"body":"I do not understand that."},{"startTime":2504.31,"endTime":2504.92,"body":"I don't either."},{"startTime":2504.93,"endTime":2508.98,"body":"Um, but I want to say that when"},{"startTime":2504.93,"endTime":2508.98,"body":"I've seen that for the, for the most"},{"startTime":2508.98,"endTime":2514.04,"body":"part, these have been offshored teams"},{"startTime":2508.98,"endTime":2514.04,"body":"where, the, the culture is different."},{"startTime":2514.05,"endTime":2515.09,"body":"We, we understand that."},{"startTime":2515.24,"endTime":2516.97,"body":"And so they just say, yes, sir."},{"startTime":2516.97,"endTime":2517.74,"body":"How high, right."},{"startTime":2517.74,"endTime":2519.65,"body":"When they're asked to"},{"startTime":2517.74,"endTime":2519.65,"body":"jump, and they get it done."},{"startTime":2519.67,"endTime":2520.05,"body":"They get."},{"startTime":2520.065,"endTime":2522.885,"body":"They get it done, but"},{"startTime":2520.065,"endTime":2522.885,"body":"then it won't integrate."},{"startTime":2523.095,"endTime":2524.985,"body":"It can't be delivered to the customer."},{"startTime":2524.985,"endTime":2525.045,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":2525.045,"endTime":2526.935,"body":"But hey, that's not"},{"startTime":2525.045,"endTime":2526.935,"body":"what you ask them to do."},{"startTime":2526.935,"endTime":2527.175,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":2527.175,"endTime":2528.025,"body":"You ask them to get it done."},{"startTime":2528.285,"endTime":2529.185,"body":"So they got it done."},{"startTime":2529.275,"endTime":2530.505,"body":"Playing games with done now."},{"startTime":2530.565,"endTime":2530.865,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":2530.925,"endTime":2532.386,"body":"Done, done, done, done,"},{"startTime":2530.925,"endTime":2532.386,"body":"done, done, done, done."},{"startTime":2532.391,"endTime":2532.466,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":2532.466,"endTime":2532.676,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":2532.826,"endTime":2536.446,"body":"So I've seen that, but regardless of"},{"startTime":2532.826,"endTime":2536.446,"body":"whether it's offshore teams or not, if"},{"startTime":2536.446,"endTime":2538.896,"body":"you are simply checking the box, Right?"},{"startTime":2538.936,"endTime":2542.966,"body":"And, and going along with"},{"startTime":2538.936,"endTime":2542.966,"body":"it, you're complicit in this."},{"startTime":2543.136,"endTime":2544.866,"body":"You really should not be doing that."},{"startTime":2544.866,"endTime":2545.466,"body":"You should say..."},{"startTime":2545.616,"endTime":2547.766,"body":"If I do this, this is what will happen."},{"startTime":2547.916,"endTime":2549.546,"body":"I just want to tell you that, right?"},{"startTime":2549.696,"endTime":2550.636,"body":"Are you okay with that?"},{"startTime":2550.786,"endTime":2551.036,"body":"Mr."},{"startTime":2551.036,"endTime":2552.666,"body":"Manager mismanager, right?"},{"startTime":2552.716,"endTime":2556.456,"body":"you do it and then when it falls"},{"startTime":2552.716,"endTime":2556.456,"body":"over, you say, well, you don't say"},{"startTime":2556.456,"endTime":2559.806,"body":"I told you so, but you say, well,"},{"startTime":2556.456,"endTime":2559.806,"body":"it was a known consequence or an"},{"startTime":2559.836,"endTime":2562.116,"body":"anticipated consequence, at least."},{"startTime":2562.136,"endTime":2566.856,"body":"The other thing we didn't touch on,"},{"startTime":2562.136,"endTime":2566.856,"body":"is the, very real case that when"},{"startTime":2566.856,"endTime":2570.626,"body":"the business scales from a certain"},{"startTime":2566.856,"endTime":2570.626,"body":"point, from a startup, up to a larger"},{"startTime":2570.626,"endTime":2573.936,"body":"business, whatever, medium or larger"},{"startTime":2570.626,"endTime":2573.936,"body":"business that, you will go through a"},{"startTime":2573.936,"endTime":2578.966,"body":"period of paying down tech debt where"},{"startTime":2573.936,"endTime":2578.966,"body":"the tech debt kind of forces itself"},{"startTime":2579.006,"endTime":2582.896,"body":"up to priority one over and above all"},{"startTime":2579.006,"endTime":2582.896,"body":"the features and all the other things."},{"startTime":2582.896,"endTime":2586.536,"body":"I mean, maybe you, maybe the tech that"},{"startTime":2582.896,"endTime":2586.536,"body":"forces itself up to priority one in"},{"startTime":2586.536,"endTime":2591.406,"body":"the form of Big bugs that, or, or the"},{"startTime":2586.536,"endTime":2591.406,"body":"inability to scale your system or things"},{"startTime":2591.406,"endTime":2595.206,"body":"that you absolutely must resolve, over"},{"startTime":2591.406,"endTime":2595.206,"body":"time, cause you didn't deal with them,"},{"startTime":2595.396,"endTime":2597.326,"body":"but, but, but your leadership might be."},{"startTime":2597.476,"endTime":2601.176,"body":"It's it's not like it's a but your"},{"startTime":2597.476,"endTime":2601.176,"body":"leadership might have been completely"},{"startTime":2601.176,"endTime":2604.356,"body":"aware and may have been the ones to"},{"startTime":2601.176,"endTime":2604.356,"body":"make the decision We're not gonna"},{"startTime":2604.356,"endTime":2607.236,"body":"deal with this now, we're not gonna"},{"startTime":2604.356,"endTime":2607.236,"body":"upgrade I remember back in the day"},{"startTime":2607.236,"endTime":2610.546,"body":"we had like major database upgrades,"},{"startTime":2607.236,"endTime":2610.546,"body":"you know until the point where like"},{"startTime":2610.746,"endTime":2614.046,"body":"especially databases that are like"},{"startTime":2610.746,"endTime":2614.046,"body":"hosted in cloud solutions or whatever"},{"startTime":2614.046,"endTime":2619.111,"body":"and It's like, you, you just cannot run"},{"startTime":2614.046,"endTime":2619.111,"body":"certain versions after a certain point."},{"startTime":2619.131,"endTime":2622.691,"body":"And it's like, you need to upgrade"},{"startTime":2619.131,"endTime":2622.691,"body":"because after this date, we're not"},{"startTime":2622.691,"endTime":2623.951,"body":"going to support your database anymore."},{"startTime":2623.951,"endTime":2626.601,"body":"So if anything happens,"},{"startTime":2623.951,"endTime":2626.601,"body":"you're, you don't have backups."},{"startTime":2626.781,"endTime":2629.321,"body":"You don't call us your service"},{"startTime":2626.781,"endTime":2629.321,"body":"provider in the middle of the night."},{"startTime":2629.331,"endTime":2630.511,"body":"Like don't call you're on your own."},{"startTime":2630.521,"endTime":2630.761,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":2630.791,"endTime":2634.441,"body":"You should be, and then the"},{"startTime":2630.791,"endTime":2634.441,"body":"business is like, we can't stop."},{"startTime":2634.591,"endTime":2639.101,"body":"To back, we can't stop to back up our"},{"startTime":2634.591,"endTime":2639.101,"body":"database and upgrade we gotta keep going"},{"startTime":2639.101,"endTime":2644.551,"body":"and make money like at some point You're"},{"startTime":2639.101,"endTime":2644.551,"body":"gonna you know again Rightfully, so The"},{"startTime":2644.551,"endTime":2649.091,"body":"executives will make decision to keep"},{"startTime":2644.551,"endTime":2649.091,"body":"going like don't stop an upgrade stop."},{"startTime":2649.101,"endTime":2650.171,"body":"Just keep going."},{"startTime":2650.181,"endTime":2651.491,"body":"We're making money."},{"startTime":2651.551,"endTime":2656.981,"body":"So typically I I've seen this with"},{"startTime":2651.551,"endTime":2656.981,"body":"startups when a company starts up and"},{"startTime":2656.981,"endTime":2660.641,"body":"they're really starting to gain traction"},{"startTime":2656.981,"endTime":2660.641,"body":"with their customers, they go fast."},{"startTime":2660.706,"endTime":2661.556,"body":"They almost go too fast."},{"startTime":2662.206,"endTime":2666.856,"body":"And so typically what happens is the"},{"startTime":2662.206,"endTime":2666.856,"body":"founders are still there at that stage."},{"startTime":2666.931,"endTime":2670.421,"body":", they're really enjoying the fact"},{"startTime":2666.931,"endTime":2670.421,"body":"that they're getting distraction and"},{"startTime":2670.571,"endTime":2671.721,"body":"they want more and more and more."},{"startTime":2671.731,"endTime":2671.991,"body":"Right."},{"startTime":2671.991,"endTime":2676.241,"body":"So, the, the tech debt issue, they"},{"startTime":2671.991,"endTime":2676.241,"body":"say, we understand that we'll get"},{"startTime":2676.241,"endTime":2679.261,"body":"to it, but for now it's important"},{"startTime":2676.241,"endTime":2679.261,"body":"to keep delivering more features"},{"startTime":2679.351,"endTime":2680.611,"body":"because we can get more customers."},{"startTime":2680.901,"endTime":2681.221,"body":"Right."},{"startTime":2681.371,"endTime":2683.231,"body":"Um, so that happens for a while."},{"startTime":2683.381,"endTime":2685.021,"body":"And then what happens?"},{"startTime":2685.171,"endTime":2687.361,"body":"One of two things, I've seen that happen."},{"startTime":2687.361,"endTime":2690.761,"body":"One is, now you've got more"},{"startTime":2687.361,"endTime":2690.761,"body":"customers using your product."},{"startTime":2690.961,"endTime":2693.571,"body":"And they're really feeling"},{"startTime":2690.961,"endTime":2693.571,"body":"the effects of the tech debt."},{"startTime":2693.721,"endTime":2694.991,"body":"So they complain, right?"},{"startTime":2695.021,"endTime":2698.831,"body":"And now they're forcing you,"},{"startTime":2695.021,"endTime":2698.831,"body":"really, to fix those things."},{"startTime":2698.981,"endTime":2704.001,"body":"And leadership, these are the founding"},{"startTime":2698.981,"endTime":2704.001,"body":"fathers, they're going to say, Oh, wow."},{"startTime":2704.051,"endTime":2707.751,"body":"If we don't fix these things, we're"},{"startTime":2704.051,"endTime":2707.751,"body":"not going to sell anymore because our"},{"startTime":2707.761,"endTime":2709.761,"body":"references will be wrong and all of that."},{"startTime":2710.071,"endTime":2711.291,"body":"So referrals won't be there."},{"startTime":2711.441,"endTime":2714.731,"body":"So they say, okay, team, take a couple"},{"startTime":2711.441,"endTime":2714.731,"body":"of sprints and fix all this stuff."},{"startTime":2714.801,"endTime":2716.261,"body":"That's one way it can go down."},{"startTime":2716.271,"endTime":2720.121,"body":"The other way is they just don't care"},{"startTime":2716.271,"endTime":2720.121,"body":"because they're going to flip the company."},{"startTime":2720.271,"endTime":2721.401,"body":"They're gonna be gone."},{"startTime":2721.551,"endTime":2722.431,"body":"I've seen that one."},{"startTime":2722.461,"endTime":2723.481,"body":"Yep, I've seen that one too."},{"startTime":2723.631,"endTime":2725.711,"body":"I've been there in living"},{"startTime":2723.631,"endTime":2725.711,"body":"color for that one."},{"startTime":2725.861,"endTime":2728.351,"body":"Listen, we know the database"},{"startTime":2725.861,"endTime":2728.351,"body":"falls over every couple months."},{"startTime":2728.641,"endTime":2731.431,"body":"And you guys have to work at"},{"startTime":2728.641,"endTime":2731.431,"body":"night to recover it or whatever."},{"startTime":2731.581,"endTime":2732.631,"body":"Take Monday off, just do it."},{"startTime":2732.781,"endTime":2734.671,"body":"I mean, think of all"},{"startTime":2732.781,"endTime":2734.671,"body":"these yachts I could buy."},{"startTime":2734.821,"endTime":2735.591,"body":"I've been there."},{"startTime":2735.931,"endTime":2736.311,"body":"Yep."},{"startTime":2736.461,"endTime":2740.081,"body":"As I have, I have zero yachts to"},{"startTime":2736.461,"endTime":2740.081,"body":"show for that zero experience."},{"startTime":2740.081,"endTime":2740.811,"body":"Zero, zero."},{"startTime":2740.811,"endTime":2741.921,"body":"But I've definitely been there."},{"startTime":2742.071,"endTime":2743.751,"body":"I had a yacht on paper."},{"startTime":2743.751,"endTime":2745.791,"body":"It was a small yacht,"},{"startTime":2743.751,"endTime":2745.791,"body":"like a, like a paper."},{"startTime":2745.941,"endTime":2747.011,"body":"You had a paper yacht."},{"startTime":2747.161,"endTime":2747.641,"body":"On paper."},{"startTime":2747.641,"endTime":2748.151,"body":"On paper."},{"startTime":2748.151,"endTime":2751.031,"body":"I had enough money to buy a 20"},{"startTime":2748.151,"endTime":2751.031,"body":"foot dinghy, Well, but then that,"},{"startTime":2751.036,"endTime":2755.651,"body":"know that bubble burst, so there I"},{"startTime":2751.036,"endTime":2755.651,"body":"was I'm sure lamenting my dinghy."},{"startTime":2755.651,"endTime":2756.881,"body":"You heard it here first?"},{"startTime":2756.911,"endTime":2757.271,"body":"Yes."},{"startTime":2757.421,"endTime":2758.711,"body":"Oh, and his dingy me."},{"startTime":2758.711,"endTime":2759.311,"body":"And my dingy."},{"startTime":2759.311,"endTime":2760.361,"body":"That should be a podcast."},{"startTime":2760.691,"endTime":2761.061,"body":"Anyway, so."},{"startTime":2761.211,"endTime":2765.201,"body":"Coming back, coming back to what we're"},{"startTime":2761.211,"endTime":2765.201,"body":"saying is you gotta pay the piper at some"},{"startTime":2765.201,"endTime":2767.781,"body":"point if you're staying with the company."},{"startTime":2767.931,"endTime":2772.471,"body":"If you're not, okay, right, but if"},{"startTime":2767.931,"endTime":2772.471,"body":"you're a leader, you have reasons"},{"startTime":2772.471,"endTime":2773.911,"body":"why you're making those decisions."},{"startTime":2773.951,"endTime":2777.361,"body":"Those reasons have to be grounded"},{"startTime":2773.951,"endTime":2777.361,"body":"in some sort of strategy."},{"startTime":2777.511,"endTime":2778.991,"body":"We want to get more customers."},{"startTime":2779.051,"endTime":2781.951,"body":"Customer acquisition is top"},{"startTime":2779.051,"endTime":2781.951,"body":"priority right now, and we're not"},{"startTime":2781.951,"endTime":2785.916,"body":"going to worry about Those people"},{"startTime":2781.951,"endTime":2785.916,"body":"that complain about stuff, right?"},{"startTime":2785.956,"endTime":2788.706,"body":"Cause we're just at that point"},{"startTime":2785.956,"endTime":2788.706,"body":"where we want to keep going that."},{"startTime":2788.736,"endTime":2789.466,"body":"Okay, fine."},{"startTime":2789.686,"endTime":2791.216,"body":"I like understand it."},{"startTime":2791.566,"endTime":2791.986,"body":"Teams."},{"startTime":2792.016,"endTime":2796.546,"body":"I like the, I like the, you labeled people"},{"startTime":2792.016,"endTime":2796.546,"body":"calling out problems as complainers."},{"startTime":2796.546,"endTime":2797.546,"body":"So I like that."},{"startTime":2797.596,"endTime":2798.226,"body":"I like that."},{"startTime":2798.376,"endTime":2800.736,"body":"That's a, that I usually"},{"startTime":2798.376,"endTime":2800.736,"body":"call them whiners, but."},{"startTime":2800.876,"endTime":2802.036,"body":"Complainers is a better word."},{"startTime":2802.036,"endTime":2804.646,"body":"That tells you something about"},{"startTime":2802.036,"endTime":2804.646,"body":"the culture that you're in."},{"startTime":2804.866,"endTime":2805.816,"body":"Like, yeah, yeah, yeah."},{"startTime":2805.916,"endTime":2808.416,"body":"So, we went kind of all around"},{"startTime":2805.916,"endTime":2808.416,"body":"the world on this topic."},{"startTime":2808.426,"endTime":2810.996,"body":"We talked for a lot longer"},{"startTime":2808.426,"endTime":2810.996,"body":"than I expected us to."},{"startTime":2811.236,"endTime":2814.011,"body":"But, I've certainly been in a culture"},{"startTime":2811.236,"endTime":2814.011,"body":"where everything is priority one."},{"startTime":2814.331,"endTime":2818.781,"body":"I'm sure a lot of people listening to"},{"startTime":2814.331,"endTime":2818.781,"body":"this have also been in a culture where"},{"startTime":2818.841,"endTime":2820.471,"body":"everything is priority one all the time."},{"startTime":2820.531,"endTime":2820.821,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":2820.971,"endTime":2824.581,"body":"Yeah, and I know that people have"},{"startTime":2820.971,"endTime":2824.581,"body":"heard this phrase before where..."},{"startTime":2824.731,"endTime":2828.761,"body":"People say, well, everything's a priority"},{"startTime":2824.731,"endTime":2828.761,"body":"one, then nothing's a priority one."},{"startTime":2828.921,"endTime":2829.951,"body":"Okay, fine."},{"startTime":2830.091,"endTime":2833.071,"body":"Here's what I would urge our"},{"startTime":2830.091,"endTime":2833.071,"body":"listeners and, and viewers."},{"startTime":2833.221,"endTime":2837.931,"body":"Think about how, from all of the priority"},{"startTime":2833.221,"endTime":2837.931,"body":"ones, you can really try and eke out"},{"startTime":2837.931,"endTime":2841.351,"body":"what is really priority one, instead of"},{"startTime":2837.931,"endTime":2841.351,"body":"saying, well, nothing's a priority one,"},{"startTime":2841.351,"endTime":2842.431,"body":"and then you're just gonna sit back."},{"startTime":2842.461,"endTime":2842.731,"body":"No."},{"startTime":2842.881,"endTime":2843.961,"body":"Figure that out, right?"},{"startTime":2844.001,"endTime":2845.061,"body":"And how do you do that?"},{"startTime":2845.131,"endTime":2848.491,"body":"That's when you engage everyone"},{"startTime":2845.131,"endTime":2848.491,"body":"in a dialogue and say, why"},{"startTime":2848.491,"endTime":2849.511,"body":"is this important than this?"},{"startTime":2849.661,"endTime":2851.111,"body":"Okay, why is that important?"},{"startTime":2851.201,"endTime":2852.301,"body":"More important than this."},{"startTime":2852.361,"endTime":2855.451,"body":"And then, how does it align with"},{"startTime":2852.361,"endTime":2855.451,"body":"that, that, that organizational"},{"startTime":2855.461,"endTime":2858.081,"body":"strategy versus objectives and goals?"},{"startTime":2858.141,"endTime":2859.871,"body":"And, you might be onto something."},{"startTime":2860.021,"endTime":2863.521,"body":"Um, but if you've liked this"},{"startTime":2860.021,"endTime":2863.521,"body":"podcast or enjoyed it, yeah, by all"},{"startTime":2863.521,"endTime":2867.081,"body":"means, let us know in the comments"},{"startTime":2863.521,"endTime":2867.081,"body":"below and, give us some topics."},{"startTime":2867.231,"endTime":2869.601,"body":"Like and subscribe that button."},{"startTime":2869.751,"endTime":2871.021,"body":"Pew, pew, pew, pew, pew, pew."},{"startTime":2871.021,"endTime":2872.191,"body":"I'm gonna do a Brian now."},{"startTime":2872.341,"endTime":2873.941,"body":"Ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha."}]}