{"version":"1.0.0","segments":[{"startTime":0.075,"endTime":3.905,"body":"This is going to be a good one because"},{"startTime":0.075,"endTime":3.905,"body":"I did not allow him to see any of"},{"startTime":3.905,"endTime":5.675,"body":"the notes going into this podcast."},{"startTime":5.675,"endTime":6.475,"body":"So we're going to get his."},{"startTime":6.625,"endTime":9.455,"body":"It's off the cuff, pure reaction."},{"startTime":9.809,"endTime":12.729,"body":"How can I sell my management?"},{"startTime":12.879,"endTime":14.019,"body":"On retrospectives."},{"startTime":14.169,"endTime":18.069,"body":"Yeah, that's a great topic"},{"startTime":14.169,"endTime":18.069,"body":"because oftentimes management,"},{"startTime":18.219,"endTime":21.419,"body":"didn't say leadership, management"},{"startTime":18.219,"endTime":21.419,"body":"don't really understand the"},{"startTime":21.419,"endTime":23.339,"body":"value of retrospectives, right?"},{"startTime":23.339,"endTime":24.249,"body":"The work is already done."},{"startTime":24.249,"endTime":25.399,"body":"Why aren't you working on the next?"},{"startTime":25.549,"endTime":29.429,"body":"piece of work that I asked you to do,"},{"startTime":25.549,"endTime":29.429,"body":"because they usually demand there's"},{"startTime":29.429,"endTime":32.919,"body":"no thinking involved on the team's"},{"startTime":29.429,"endTime":32.919,"body":"part, they are told what to do."},{"startTime":33.069,"endTime":37.979,"body":"So unlike in David Marquette's"},{"startTime":33.069,"endTime":37.979,"body":"book, they're not giving you intent,"},{"startTime":38.039,"endTime":39.479,"body":"they're giving you direction."},{"startTime":39.549,"endTime":42.789,"body":"But anyway how do you sell"},{"startTime":39.549,"endTime":42.789,"body":"management on retrospective?"},{"startTime":42.809,"endTime":46.909,"body":"Well, I think you can look back at"},{"startTime":42.809,"endTime":46.909,"body":"historical performance of your team"},{"startTime":46.909,"endTime":51.219,"body":"and say, going back five sprints,"},{"startTime":46.909,"endTime":51.219,"body":"six sprints, use something like"},{"startTime":51.229,"endTime":57.564,"body":"n equals Four or more, probably"},{"startTime":51.229,"endTime":57.564,"body":"and say, here's how we were doing."},{"startTime":57.614,"endTime":61.584,"body":"And here's how we progressed from"},{"startTime":57.614,"endTime":61.584,"body":"one sprint to the next in terms of"},{"startTime":61.584,"endTime":65.379,"body":"our our team output because they"},{"startTime":61.584,"endTime":65.379,"body":"probably don't care about outcomes."},{"startTime":65.559,"endTime":69.664,"body":"So if you look at it from that perspective"},{"startTime":65.559,"endTime":69.664,"body":"and then pose the question Would you"},{"startTime":69.664,"endTime":72.994,"body":"like us to improve next sprint by 5%?"},{"startTime":73.064,"endTime":73.574,"body":"10%?"},{"startTime":73.914,"endTime":74.354,"body":"Right?"},{"startTime":74.504,"endTime":76.794,"body":"That's how you sell it to them"},{"startTime":74.504,"endTime":76.794,"body":"or at least pitch it to them."},{"startTime":77.114,"endTime":80.274,"body":"You haven't made the sale yet, but"},{"startTime":77.114,"endTime":80.274,"body":"you can pitch it to them and say, if"},{"startTime":80.274,"endTime":84.164,"body":"we get together for an hour, hour and"},{"startTime":80.274,"endTime":84.164,"body":"a half, we can figure out ways that"},{"startTime":84.164,"endTime":89.344,"body":"we can improve our process so that we"},{"startTime":84.164,"endTime":89.344,"body":"can have better quality, perhaps more."},{"startTime":89.614,"endTime":93.734,"body":"Work that we can get done because we're,"},{"startTime":89.614,"endTime":93.734,"body":"we're stopping bad practices and so forth."},{"startTime":93.964,"endTime":99.954,"body":"Have that discussion and get there by into"},{"startTime":93.964,"endTime":99.954,"body":"at least try it for one or two sprints."},{"startTime":100.154,"endTime":102.434,"body":"It's don't ask for this"},{"startTime":100.154,"endTime":102.434,"body":"thing for ever, right?"},{"startTime":102.434,"endTime":105.664,"body":"Because they're probably going to"},{"startTime":102.434,"endTime":105.664,"body":"say no two hours every two weeks at"},{"startTime":105.814,"endTime":108.245,"body":"times of six, six, seven developers."},{"startTime":108.245,"endTime":109.035,"body":"That's a lot of time."},{"startTime":109.185,"endTime":111.215,"body":"So just ask for a couple of"},{"startTime":109.185,"endTime":111.215,"body":"sprints and say, let's come"},{"startTime":111.215,"endTime":112.725,"body":"back to this in two sprints."},{"startTime":112.8,"endTime":113.78,"body":"You're already started."},{"startTime":113.93,"endTime":117.28,"body":"Going down the road that when I heard"},{"startTime":113.93,"endTime":117.28,"body":"the question originally my brain was"},{"startTime":117.28,"endTime":121.479,"body":"headed down was You probably have a"},{"startTime":117.28,"endTime":121.479,"body":"management team or at least specific"},{"startTime":121.48,"endTime":124.19,"body":"managers that are saying in their"},{"startTime":121.48,"endTime":124.19,"body":"head They're doing what you just did"},{"startTime":124.19,"endTime":127.48,"body":"in your head you touched on and then"},{"startTime":124.19,"endTime":127.48,"body":"like moved on You probably have a PMO"},{"startTime":127.71,"endTime":131.96,"body":"to be honest if they're saying wait a"},{"startTime":127.71,"endTime":131.96,"body":"minute, it's it's an hour every other"},{"startTime":131.96,"endTime":136.384,"body":"week It's an hour every other week and"},{"startTime":131.96,"endTime":136.384,"body":"there's ten people on my team So it's 24"},{"startTime":136.384,"endTime":138.894,"body":"retrospectives in a year with 10 people."},{"startTime":138.894,"endTime":143.934,"body":"I've got to now I've got 240 man hours,"},{"startTime":138.894,"endTime":143.934,"body":"so basically I'm losing six, six weeks,"},{"startTime":143.954,"endTime":146.684,"body":"six weeks, a month and a half of work."},{"startTime":146.704,"endTime":149.874,"body":"They think that's the way that"},{"startTime":146.704,"endTime":149.874,"body":"it would look at it is I'm losing"},{"startTime":149.874,"endTime":150.864,"body":"a month and a half of work."},{"startTime":151.164,"endTime":151.364,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":151.434,"endTime":155.854,"body":"Rather than, so I, I also I remember"},{"startTime":151.434,"endTime":155.854,"body":"I don't remember if I watched it on a"},{"startTime":155.854,"endTime":159.854,"body":"podcast or I heard somebody say, I can't"},{"startTime":155.854,"endTime":159.854,"body":"remember where I picked this up over time."},{"startTime":160.004,"endTime":163.804,"body":"But I remember hearing someone say,"},{"startTime":160.004,"endTime":163.804,"body":"if you're going to steal anything"},{"startTime":163.804,"endTime":168.069,"body":"from scrum,  and abandon all"},{"startTime":163.804,"endTime":168.069,"body":"the rest of the events in Scrum."},{"startTime":168.219,"endTime":171.649,"body":"The one thing you should keep is the"},{"startTime":168.219,"endTime":171.649,"body":"retrospective because it's the only"},{"startTime":171.939,"endTime":175.309,"body":"time that we look at what we're doing,"},{"startTime":171.939,"endTime":175.309,"body":"the processes of what we're doing,"},{"startTime":175.309,"endTime":180.049,"body":"or the work, or both, and decide what"},{"startTime":175.309,"endTime":180.049,"body":"can we change to make this better."},{"startTime":180.199,"endTime":182.119,"body":"So at least we're incrementally approving."},{"startTime":182.319,"endTime":183.099,"body":"Incremental?"},{"startTime":183.179,"endTime":184.029,"body":"Incrementally?"},{"startTime":184.059,"endTime":184.989,"body":"Did I say that word right?"},{"startTime":185.139,"endTime":185.429,"body":"Okay."},{"startTime":185.429,"endTime":185.699,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":185.699,"endTime":188.039,"body":"I don't know why my brain is"},{"startTime":185.699,"endTime":188.039,"body":"like, that's not the right word."},{"startTime":188.189,"endTime":191.449,"body":"At least we're incrementally approved,"},{"startTime":188.189,"endTime":191.449,"body":"improving, I think, improving."},{"startTime":191.449,"endTime":193.649,"body":"I said, approving we're"},{"startTime":191.449,"endTime":193.649,"body":"approving and improve."},{"startTime":193.659,"endTime":195.159,"body":"We're improving the improvements."},{"startTime":195.199,"endTime":195.629,"body":"Nevermind."},{"startTime":195.859,"endTime":196.469,"body":"Incrementally."},{"startTime":196.479,"endTime":197.179,"body":"Incrementally."},{"startTime":197.179,"endTime":197.589,"body":"That's right."},{"startTime":197.664,"endTime":198.584,"body":"That's a fallacy."},{"startTime":198.744,"endTime":200.754,"body":"First of all, obviously,"},{"startTime":198.744,"endTime":200.754,"body":"as everybody knows, right?"},{"startTime":200.804,"endTime":204.914,"body":"I mean, one of the things that you can"},{"startTime":200.804,"endTime":204.914,"body":"do in the spirit of offering things to"},{"startTime":204.914,"endTime":206.724,"body":"kind of mitigate this situation, right?"},{"startTime":206.724,"endTime":208.034,"body":"I mentioned that you look at."},{"startTime":208.184,"endTime":212.334,"body":"Historical numbers only for the from the"},{"startTime":208.184,"endTime":212.334,"body":"perspective of pitching it to them that"},{"startTime":212.534,"endTime":214.554,"body":"we have done what we've done, right?"},{"startTime":214.614,"endTime":216.484,"body":"You may not have improvement."},{"startTime":216.494,"endTime":220.764,"body":"Maybe it's not a linear improvement Sprint"},{"startTime":216.494,"endTime":220.764,"body":"on sprint if you've done retrospectives"},{"startTime":220.824,"endTime":224.534,"body":"because it depends if you actually put"},{"startTime":220.824,"endTime":224.534,"body":"these findings into practice or not But"},{"startTime":224.654,"endTime":229.254,"body":"just show up show the numbers for what"},{"startTime":224.654,"endTime":229.254,"body":"they're worth and say on average we could"},{"startTime":229.254,"endTime":231.594,"body":"potentially improve again No guarantees."},{"startTime":231.734,"endTime":233.734,"body":"Potentially improved by X percent."},{"startTime":233.994,"endTime":235.034,"body":"5, 10."},{"startTime":235.134,"endTime":235.454,"body":"Right."},{"startTime":235.734,"endTime":237.624,"body":"If we examine our processes."},{"startTime":237.774,"endTime":242.344,"body":"So another, another thing you can do"},{"startTime":237.774,"endTime":242.344,"body":"here is to say, listen, over the last"},{"startTime":242.494,"endTime":244.584,"body":"5, 6 sprints, we had churn on the team."},{"startTime":244.734,"endTime":248.714,"body":"So not everybody is attuned to how"},{"startTime":244.734,"endTime":248.714,"body":"we work together as a team because"},{"startTime":248.724,"endTime":250.394,"body":"we have new team members, right?"},{"startTime":250.544,"endTime":252.304,"body":"So we need to sync up again."},{"startTime":252.394,"endTime":256.504,"body":"And that's a good way to do that at a"},{"startTime":252.394,"endTime":256.504,"body":"retrospective where we can not only use"},{"startTime":256.504,"endTime":258.884,"body":"it to reflect on our sprint, but also."},{"startTime":259.034,"endTime":263.794,"body":"Impart how we work and kind of bring in"},{"startTime":259.034,"endTime":263.794,"body":"the opinions of the new person and, and"},{"startTime":263.794,"endTime":265.144,"body":"maybe we'll learn something new from them."},{"startTime":265.269,"endTime":269.729,"body":"Let's go back a second to the first"},{"startTime":265.269,"endTime":269.729,"body":"category of, of the, the book."},{"startTime":269.789,"endTime":270.239,"body":"The what?"},{"startTime":270.239,"endTime":272.849,"body":"The note I wrote down was"},{"startTime":270.239,"endTime":272.849,"body":"highlighting the r o I."},{"startTime":272.999,"endTime":276.669,"body":"Yeah, for management and I also I'm"},{"startTime":272.999,"endTime":276.669,"body":"assuming at this point if you have"},{"startTime":276.669,"endTime":278.919,"body":"to if you have to go in front of"},{"startTime":276.669,"endTime":278.919,"body":"some board or whatever, like you're"},{"startTime":278.919,"endTime":280.629,"body":"not really talking to leadership."},{"startTime":280.639,"endTime":281.669,"body":"You're not talking to the decision."},{"startTime":281.919,"endTime":284.479,"body":"You're talking to some gatekeepers"},{"startTime":281.919,"endTime":284.479,"body":"in the in the organization"},{"startTime":284.479,"endTime":285.239,"body":"or some middle managers."},{"startTime":285.389,"endTime":285.899,"body":"You're stuck."},{"startTime":285.909,"endTime":289.029,"body":"You're stuck in middle management"},{"startTime":285.909,"endTime":289.029,"body":"purgatory that you you have to"},{"startTime":289.039,"endTime":292.059,"body":"get through these gatekeepers to"},{"startTime":289.039,"endTime":292.059,"body":"actually make meaningful changes."},{"startTime":292.059,"endTime":292.429,"body":"Improvement."},{"startTime":292.449,"endTime":293.089,"body":"The organization."},{"startTime":293.239,"endTime":293.989,"body":"Sorry about that."},{"startTime":294.309,"endTime":295.219,"body":"Keep your resume updated."},{"startTime":295.389,"endTime":299.939,"body":"But what I wrote down was highlight the"},{"startTime":295.389,"endTime":299.939,"body":"ROI because in your example, you went"},{"startTime":299.939,"endTime":303.969,"body":"first to, I'm going to start tracking"},{"startTime":299.939,"endTime":303.969,"body":"what we're doing and I'm going to have"},{"startTime":304.089,"endTime":308.409,"body":"metrics for a baseline of how the team"},{"startTime":304.089,"endTime":308.409,"body":"is performing on a normal basis, right?"},{"startTime":308.419,"endTime":310.909,"body":"For a normal day to day type of operation."},{"startTime":311.199,"endTime":315.009,"body":"And then I'm going to suggest an"},{"startTime":311.199,"endTime":315.009,"body":"improvement and measure again after"},{"startTime":315.009,"endTime":317.049,"body":"the improvement has been implemented."},{"startTime":317.199,"endTime":317.539,"body":"Right."},{"startTime":317.889,"endTime":321.159,"body":"And I'm going to use this in"},{"startTime":317.889,"endTime":321.159,"body":"order to get a little more leeway."},{"startTime":321.309,"endTime":325.199,"body":"A little more runway to do more"},{"startTime":321.309,"endTime":325.199,"body":"of this type of thing to make it"},{"startTime":325.199,"endTime":326.419,"body":"a regular thing in the culture."},{"startTime":326.719,"endTime":328.299,"body":"So you're, you're doing two things."},{"startTime":328.299,"endTime":331.839,"body":"Number one, you're starting with a"},{"startTime":328.299,"endTime":331.839,"body":"data focus of, I'm going to gather"},{"startTime":331.839,"endTime":334.929,"body":"some data and then, well, we're"},{"startTime":331.839,"endTime":334.929,"body":"going to say, why don't we try"},{"startTime":334.929,"endTime":336.359,"body":"something and then try it, right?"},{"startTime":336.409,"endTime":337.309,"body":"You're doing that."},{"startTime":337.459,"endTime":338.599,"body":"So highlighting the ROI,"},{"startTime":338.819,"endTime":341.539,"body":"the other thing I wrote down in"},{"startTime":338.819,"endTime":341.539,"body":"this category is the thing that we"},{"startTime":341.539,"endTime":344.519,"body":"suggest over and over again, almost"},{"startTime":341.539,"endTime":344.519,"body":"every podcast is starting small,"},{"startTime":344.529,"endTime":347.579,"body":"say, Hey, why don't we try this small"},{"startTime":344.529,"endTime":347.579,"body":"little thing that doesn't impact?"},{"startTime":347.659,"endTime":348.979,"body":"Maybe it doesn't even"},{"startTime":347.659,"endTime":348.979,"body":"go outside of our team."},{"startTime":348.989,"endTime":351.849,"body":"Maybe it's just our team, or maybe"},{"startTime":348.989,"endTime":351.849,"body":"it's a few people on our team."},{"startTime":351.859,"endTime":353.089,"body":"Maybe even start even smaller."},{"startTime":353.109,"endTime":354.789,"body":"So those two things go together."},{"startTime":354.789,"endTime":358.599,"body":"It's measuring writing down and measuring"},{"startTime":354.789,"endTime":358.599,"body":"your experiments in your observations"},{"startTime":358.749,"endTime":361.159,"body":"in data so they can't be disputed."},{"startTime":361.309,"endTime":361.679,"body":"Right."},{"startTime":361.949,"endTime":365.909,"body":"And then starting small to make small"},{"startTime":361.949,"endTime":365.909,"body":"frequent improvements rather than"},{"startTime":366.119,"endTime":367.789,"body":"trying to do a big bang or whatever."},{"startTime":368.079,"endTime":368.639,"body":"Absolutely."},{"startTime":368.639,"endTime":369.039,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":369.199,"endTime":373.979,"body":"So the keyword there is small other than"},{"startTime":369.199,"endTime":373.979,"body":"the experiment, which I love small, right?"},{"startTime":373.979,"endTime":377.709,"body":"So if you get together with your team"},{"startTime":373.979,"endTime":377.709,"body":"for a retro and the team identifies,"},{"startTime":377.859,"endTime":379.099,"body":"let's say three, four things."},{"startTime":379.249,"endTime":379.869,"body":"Pick a couple."},{"startTime":380.019,"endTime":383.544,"body":"Chances are slim that you can actually"},{"startTime":380.019,"endTime":383.544,"body":"implement all four things to their full"},{"startTime":383.544,"endTime":385.214,"body":"potential just in the next two weeks."},{"startTime":385.214,"endTime":388.974,"body":"So pick a couple, but you know, make"},{"startTime":385.214,"endTime":388.974,"body":"sure that the team understands those"},{"startTime":388.974,"endTime":392.784,"body":"are the ones, those highly voted ones"},{"startTime":388.974,"endTime":392.784,"body":"possibly, that you're going to focus on."},{"startTime":392.894,"endTime":396.674,"body":"Then you'll have a better chance"},{"startTime":392.894,"endTime":396.674,"body":"of showing progress to management"},{"startTime":396.824,"endTime":398.174,"body":"on those two things, right?"},{"startTime":398.324,"endTime":399.494,"body":"Yeah, fully agree with that."},{"startTime":399.494,"endTime":400.124,"body":"Start small."},{"startTime":400.274,"endTime":403.054,"body":"And stay within your team is a"},{"startTime":400.274,"endTime":403.054,"body":"good one because if you have..."},{"startTime":404.084,"endTime":406.024,"body":"Retros off teams and teams."},{"startTime":406.324,"endTime":409.334,"body":"If you're if you're in some sort of"},{"startTime":406.324,"endTime":409.334,"body":"scaled environment, let's say it's"},{"startTime":409.334,"endTime":411.724,"body":"a it's a lot harder to illustrate."},{"startTime":411.874,"endTime":416.574,"body":"Success after getting approval to use"},{"startTime":411.874,"endTime":416.574,"body":"retrospectives for a sprint or two"},{"startTime":416.884,"endTime":418.404,"body":"because there's too many moving parts."},{"startTime":418.414,"endTime":419.154,"body":"You have your team."},{"startTime":419.154,"endTime":421.274,"body":"You have another team"},{"startTime":419.154,"endTime":421.274,"body":"or possibly more teams."},{"startTime":421.424,"endTime":425.724,"body":"So the effect of that improvement"},{"startTime":421.424,"endTime":425.724,"body":"is is hugely diluted typically."},{"startTime":425.984,"endTime":431.954,"body":"you kind of alluded to key stakeholders,"},{"startTime":425.984,"endTime":431.954,"body":"like the John Cotter, like the guiding"},{"startTime":431.954,"endTime":434.544,"body":"coalition getting, getting your"},{"startTime":431.954,"endTime":434.544,"body":"people together that are on your side."},{"startTime":434.734,"endTime":436.264,"body":"But this, this could be more than that."},{"startTime":436.264,"endTime":438.064,"body":"This could be getting by."},{"startTime":438.064,"endTime":440.144,"body":"And I think of like transforming"},{"startTime":438.064,"endTime":440.144,"body":"agile transformations, like"},{"startTime":440.154,"endTime":442.974,"body":"you have the one person in the"},{"startTime":440.154,"endTime":442.974,"body":"organization that is basically"},{"startTime":442.974,"endTime":445.064,"body":"supporting the agile transformation."},{"startTime":445.334,"endTime":448.504,"body":"And when that one person leaves the edge"},{"startTime":445.334,"endTime":448.504,"body":"of transformation kind of like goes away."},{"startTime":448.844,"endTime":451.384,"body":"Slowly, kind of slowly"},{"startTime":448.844,"endTime":451.384,"body":"collapses after they're gone."},{"startTime":451.534,"endTime":452.194,"body":"I don't know why I did this."},{"startTime":452.194,"endTime":453.154,"body":"That's a slow collapse."},{"startTime":453.194,"endTime":454.044,"body":"Yeah, it's a slow collapse."},{"startTime":454.194,"endTime":454.524,"body":"I don't know."},{"startTime":454.674,"endTime":455.794,"body":"It's not getting any better."},{"startTime":455.994,"endTime":457.164,"body":"It's an implosion."},{"startTime":457.204,"endTime":458.254,"body":"It's an implosion, yes."},{"startTime":458.314,"endTime":458.474,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":458.694,"endTime":462.004,"body":"But talking to those people one on"},{"startTime":458.694,"endTime":462.004,"body":"one and getting buy in from what"},{"startTime":462.004,"endTime":463.454,"body":"you're about to do before you do it."},{"startTime":463.474,"endTime":466.704,"body":"Again, in this theoretical world if"},{"startTime":463.474,"endTime":466.704,"body":"you're at a small startup, You probably"},{"startTime":466.704,"endTime":467.634,"body":"don't need to do any of this stuff."},{"startTime":467.634,"endTime":469.164,"body":"You probably get everyone"},{"startTime":467.634,"endTime":469.164,"body":"together in a room and it's"},{"startTime":469.164,"endTime":470.014,"body":"like, Hey, I want to do this."},{"startTime":470.014,"endTime":471.264,"body":"And then you just do it and you go for it."},{"startTime":471.264,"endTime":472.644,"body":"And they're like, way to go, Brian."},{"startTime":472.644,"endTime":475.514,"body":"You're a go getter you're"},{"startTime":472.644,"endTime":475.514,"body":"basically Nike in it at that point."},{"startTime":475.514,"endTime":475.994,"body":"Just do it."},{"startTime":476.224,"endTime":480.444,"body":"But I like the idea of the one"},{"startTime":476.224,"endTime":480.444,"body":"on ones because again, we're"},{"startTime":480.444,"endTime":481.734,"body":"talking about management, right?"},{"startTime":481.884,"endTime":485.624,"body":"They probably aren't, I was going"},{"startTime":481.884,"endTime":485.624,"body":"to say well versed, but even aware"},{"startTime":485.664,"endTime":487.324,"body":"of the agile ways of working."},{"startTime":487.664,"endTime":491.164,"body":"So this whole idea of the team"},{"startTime":487.664,"endTime":491.164,"body":"getting together for an hour,"},{"startTime":491.164,"endTime":492.454,"body":"hour and a half every two weeks."},{"startTime":492.604,"endTime":495.484,"body":"To just discuss and natter"},{"startTime":492.604,"endTime":495.484,"body":"about what they've already done."},{"startTime":495.484,"endTime":496.604,"body":"That's border under bridge."},{"startTime":496.604,"endTime":497.204,"body":"It's done."},{"startTime":497.214,"endTime":497.944,"body":"Get on with the new."},{"startTime":498.084,"endTime":502.894,"body":"So it's, it's a good way to deal"},{"startTime":498.084,"endTime":502.894,"body":"with this by having one on ones and"},{"startTime":502.894,"endTime":505.244,"body":"say, this is how we work, right?"},{"startTime":505.454,"endTime":507.104,"body":"So educate those people."},{"startTime":507.144,"endTime":508.294,"body":"You have to do that."},{"startTime":508.444,"endTime":510.504,"body":"Another thing that I thought about"},{"startTime":508.444,"endTime":510.504,"body":"the sort of in line with this."},{"startTime":510.654,"endTime":515.064,"body":"Along with highlighting the ROI"},{"startTime":510.654,"endTime":515.064,"body":"and building support with your with"},{"startTime":515.064,"endTime":517.784,"body":"your stakeholders, building support"},{"startTime":515.064,"endTime":517.784,"body":"within your organization, basically."},{"startTime":517.934,"endTime":519.264,"body":"Well, building support."},{"startTime":519.394,"endTime":522.844,"body":"That's what it really is so another"},{"startTime":519.394,"endTime":522.844,"body":"thing that goes with that is trying to"},{"startTime":522.844,"endTime":527.654,"body":"figure out Which things to improve in"},{"startTime":522.844,"endTime":527.654,"body":"which order like sometimes some teams"},{"startTime":527.664,"endTime":530.204,"body":"these like this needs to be improved"},{"startTime":527.664,"endTime":530.204,"body":"over and above or anything else."},{"startTime":530.234,"endTime":533.274,"body":"This will have the biggest impact"},{"startTime":530.234,"endTime":533.274,"body":"I mean, this thing, which is small"},{"startTime":533.274,"endTime":534.964,"body":"to change will have the biggest"},{"startTime":533.274,"endTime":534.964,"body":"impact, that kind of thing."},{"startTime":535.114,"endTime":540.179,"body":"But I kind of think if you're trying to"},{"startTime":535.114,"endTime":540.179,"body":"do this, you can align the improvements"},{"startTime":540.179,"endTime":544.299,"body":"that you're looking to make, With business"},{"startTime":540.179,"endTime":544.299,"body":"objectives, like directly aligned with"},{"startTime":544.329,"endTime":548.899,"body":"business objectives, like now you have"},{"startTime":544.329,"endTime":548.899,"body":"even more firepower to go about doing"},{"startTime":548.899,"endTime":552.869,"body":"it because you're saying like, Hey, we"},{"startTime":548.899,"endTime":552.869,"body":"want to improve the we want to improve"},{"startTime":552.869,"endTime":556.129,"body":"the customer experience and in order to"},{"startTime":552.869,"endTime":556.129,"body":"improve the customer experience, we're"},{"startTime":556.129,"endTime":560.339,"body":"doing this automated testing and you know,"},{"startTime":556.129,"endTime":560.339,"body":"here's how it directly aligns to that."},{"startTime":560.599,"endTime":561.199,"body":"So I guess."},{"startTime":561.349,"endTime":565.929,"body":"This is sort of sneaky though, because"},{"startTime":561.349,"endTime":565.929,"body":"some of it is aligning to the objectives"},{"startTime":565.979,"endTime":570.259,"body":"and some of it is like just plugging"},{"startTime":565.979,"endTime":570.259,"body":"anything anyway to like, well, this, if we"},{"startTime":570.259,"endTime":574.999,"body":"do a, then B, then C, and then we'll end"},{"startTime":570.259,"endTime":574.999,"body":"up on planet Z like, I don't, I mean, you"},{"startTime":574.999,"endTime":576.509,"body":"gotta be able to tell a good story, right?"},{"startTime":576.659,"endTime":577.489,"body":"You absolutely do."},{"startTime":577.639,"endTime":582.519,"body":"So the team's ground reality is you"},{"startTime":577.639,"endTime":582.519,"body":"have some areas that you can improve"},{"startTime":582.519,"endTime":587.689,"body":"on, and most of us have seen areas like"},{"startTime":582.519,"endTime":587.689,"body":"not delivering the sprint goal fully"},{"startTime":587.729,"endTime":591.419,"body":"or not delivering everything the team"},{"startTime":587.729,"endTime":591.419,"body":"took into the sprint, for example."},{"startTime":591.419,"endTime":594.229,"body":"I mean, these are, these are"},{"startTime":591.419,"endTime":594.229,"body":"fairly, frequently encountered."},{"startTime":594.279,"endTime":595.919,"body":"I was gonna say common, but yeah."},{"startTime":596.059,"endTime":599.969,"body":"So one of the things you can do is to look"},{"startTime":596.059,"endTime":599.969,"body":"at the opportunity cost of the equation"},{"startTime":599.969,"endTime":604.529,"body":"and say we missed two stories out of"},{"startTime":599.969,"endTime":604.529,"body":"the six that the team took over into"},{"startTime":604.529,"endTime":606.299,"body":"the sprint took into the sprint rather."},{"startTime":606.449,"endTime":608.739,"body":"So those two stories represent What?"},{"startTime":608.769,"endTime":610.929,"body":"A third of commitment that"},{"startTime":608.769,"endTime":610.929,"body":"we didn't make, right?"},{"startTime":611.029,"endTime":612.249,"body":"We didn't actually meet."},{"startTime":612.399,"endTime":616.519,"body":"In order to not do this kind of thing"},{"startTime":612.399,"endTime":616.519,"body":"in the future, we need to figure out"},{"startTime":616.599,"endTime":618.569,"body":"what we did that we need to stop doing."},{"startTime":618.639,"endTime":618.879,"body":"Right."},{"startTime":619.179,"endTime":620.749,"body":"And sell it from that perspective."},{"startTime":620.899,"endTime":623.139,"body":"That's a, I gotta think"},{"startTime":620.899,"endTime":623.139,"body":"about how that would go over."},{"startTime":623.139,"endTime":626.489,"body":"Well, PMOs are always looking for"},{"startTime":623.139,"endTime":626.489,"body":"you know, percent complete, right?"},{"startTime":626.639,"endTime":627.589,"body":"That's why I say that."},{"startTime":627.739,"endTime":631.959,"body":"But if you have leadership, then yes,"},{"startTime":627.739,"endTime":631.959,"body":"the outcomes, customer experience,"},{"startTime":631.999,"endTime":633.469,"body":"all of those things matter, right?"},{"startTime":633.619,"endTime":636.629,"body":"Yeah, well, also like, I'm thinking"},{"startTime":633.619,"endTime":636.629,"body":"about like think about like a team"},{"startTime":636.629,"endTime":640.634,"body":"of leads, like a team of leads"},{"startTime":636.629,"endTime":640.634,"body":"that's across programs where they're"},{"startTime":640.634,"endTime":643.984,"body":"all like the development leads, QA"},{"startTime":640.634,"endTime":643.984,"body":"leads, stuff like that, you know."},{"startTime":644.244,"endTime":648.714,"body":"But they in in and of themselves are"},{"startTime":644.244,"endTime":648.714,"body":"a team, even though they're not really"},{"startTime":648.714,"endTime":651.249,"body":"like, they don't sit together and"},{"startTime":648.714,"endTime":651.249,"body":"they don't they're distributed to the"},{"startTime":651.249,"endTime":654.599,"body":"rest of the organization, but they're,"},{"startTime":651.249,"endTime":654.599,"body":"they're enablers basically for, and"},{"startTime":654.689,"endTime":658.219,"body":"I'm thinking of a team like that doing"},{"startTime":654.689,"endTime":658.219,"body":"retrospective is that the, the, if"},{"startTime":658.219,"endTime":663.899,"body":"the organization comes with a goal of,"},{"startTime":658.219,"endTime":663.899,"body":"I want to improve our say do ratios."},{"startTime":664.049,"endTime":667.769,"body":"For the leaders of the organization, the"},{"startTime":664.049,"endTime":667.769,"body":"leadership basically, when someone in"},{"startTime":667.769,"endTime":671.089,"body":"my company in leadership says they're"},{"startTime":667.769,"endTime":671.089,"body":"going to do something, I want to make"},{"startTime":671.089,"endTime":675.129,"body":"sure that they're doing it like show,"},{"startTime":671.089,"endTime":675.129,"body":"show me those numbers and then let's as"},{"startTime":675.129,"endTime":678.739,"body":"a lead at a team of leads, let's talk"},{"startTime":675.129,"endTime":678.739,"body":"about what we can do to improve it."},{"startTime":678.749,"endTime":682.909,"body":"Like I, I think at one time, one"},{"startTime":678.749,"endTime":682.909,"body":"at one company I've ever been, I've"},{"startTime":682.909,"endTime":685.629,"body":"ever heard anything like this vetted"},{"startTime":682.909,"endTime":685.629,"body":"and then never follow through."},{"startTime":685.819,"endTime":686.139,"body":"I don't know."},{"startTime":686.199,"endTime":687.559,"body":"I don't know why teams do this."},{"startTime":687.599,"endTime":689.079,"body":"Like what is our say do ratio?"},{"startTime":689.394,"endTime":693.104,"body":"And then they commit to improving"},{"startTime":689.394,"endTime":693.104,"body":"by not rolling stuff over sprint"},{"startTime":693.114,"endTime":694.074,"body":"to sprint and stuff like that."},{"startTime":694.224,"endTime":695.154,"body":"I've seen team fixes."},{"startTime":695.304,"endTime":695.924,"body":"Definitely."},{"startTime":695.924,"endTime":699.284,"body":"I put that on a dashboard for"},{"startTime":695.924,"endTime":699.284,"body":"the teams, but to go back to your"},{"startTime":699.284,"endTime":700.754,"body":"point about leadership, right?"},{"startTime":700.764,"endTime":705.184,"body":"So don't wait till the end and say"},{"startTime":700.764,"endTime":705.184,"body":"you'll say do ratio is X have them."},{"startTime":705.334,"endTime":706.684,"body":"We always say this on the podcast."},{"startTime":706.734,"endTime":708.364,"body":"Leadership should have a Kanban board."},{"startTime":708.624,"endTime":710.074,"body":"All their work should be visible."},{"startTime":710.264,"endTime":714.744,"body":"So when their work is visible for the"},{"startTime":710.264,"endTime":714.744,"body":"sprint, the duration of the sprint and"},{"startTime":714.744,"endTime":718.174,"body":"it's sitting in the to do column or"},{"startTime":714.744,"endTime":718.174,"body":"sitting in progress and not moving,"},{"startTime":718.184,"endTime":721.204,"body":"the time to kind of nudge them along"},{"startTime":718.184,"endTime":721.204,"body":"isn't at the end of the sprint."},{"startTime":721.224,"endTime":723.404,"body":"It's every day you're"},{"startTime":721.224,"endTime":723.404,"body":"looking at this saying."},{"startTime":723.554,"endTime":726.474,"body":"Listen, Mary, John, whoever, right?"},{"startTime":726.484,"endTime":727.484,"body":"You're supposed to do this."},{"startTime":727.494,"endTime":732.014,"body":"How can we help you move that"},{"startTime":727.494,"endTime":732.014,"body":"ticket to the column to its right?"},{"startTime":732.164,"endTime":732.994,"body":"That's the question."},{"startTime":732.994,"endTime":735.614,"body":"So you're not saying you didn't,"},{"startTime":732.994,"endTime":735.614,"body":"you didn't do this, right?"},{"startTime":735.704,"endTime":737.634,"body":"But you are saying that in a way, right."},{"startTime":737.634,"endTime":739.574,"body":"You're just saying we're all"},{"startTime":737.634,"endTime":739.574,"body":"accountable for this work."},{"startTime":739.584,"endTime":741.244,"body":"This is, this is your piece of work here."},{"startTime":741.244,"endTime":742.754,"body":"And yeah, yeah, let's go."},{"startTime":742.894,"endTime":746.024,"body":"I know we're not talking about"},{"startTime":742.894,"endTime":746.024,"body":"disagreements, but like this is prime"},{"startTime":746.094,"endTime":748.364,"body":"area where the scrum master can step in."},{"startTime":748.514,"endTime":751.264,"body":"To start coaching the organization"},{"startTime":748.514,"endTime":751.264,"body":"and that the organization doesn't"},{"startTime":751.264,"endTime":754.234,"body":"even really realize they're"},{"startTime":751.264,"endTime":754.234,"body":"being quote coached, right?"},{"startTime":754.394,"endTime":758.484,"body":"You know, I I did this I was I wasn't"},{"startTime":754.394,"endTime":758.484,"body":"really a scrum master But it was a"},{"startTime":758.484,"endTime":762.184,"body":"scrum master thing to do where I walked"},{"startTime":758.484,"endTime":762.184,"body":"into the CEO's office he had a big"},{"startTime":762.194,"endTime":766.874,"body":"whiteboard on his wall and you know, I"},{"startTime":762.194,"endTime":766.874,"body":"walked in there with my I don't remember"},{"startTime":766.874,"endTime":767.864,"body":"if I walked, I don't if I had tape."},{"startTime":767.864,"endTime":770.474,"body":"Did you take, did you take masking"},{"startTime":767.864,"endTime":770.474,"body":"tape or did you take masking tape?"},{"startTime":770.474,"endTime":773.024,"body":"I don't if I had ma I don't remember"},{"startTime":770.474,"endTime":773.024,"body":"if I did it with markers or tape."},{"startTime":773.264,"endTime":777.074,"body":"I either did it with markers and like"},{"startTime":773.264,"endTime":777.074,"body":"a, I don't remember, like a big straight"},{"startTime":777.079,"endTime":779.624,"body":"edge you know, like a yardstick or"},{"startTime":777.079,"endTime":779.624,"body":"something like that as a straight edge."},{"startTime":779.894,"endTime":782.024,"body":"I either, I, I did it with"},{"startTime":779.894,"endTime":782.024,"body":"markers and straight edges,"},{"startTime":782.024,"endTime":783.284,"body":"or I did it with actual tape."},{"startTime":783.284,"endTime":784.394,"body":"I, I can't recall."},{"startTime":784.644,"endTime":786.294,"body":"But I remember the lines"},{"startTime":784.644,"endTime":786.294,"body":"being actually straight."},{"startTime":786.364,"endTime":787.104,"body":"Cause I use something."},{"startTime":787.124,"endTime":787.914,"body":"I don't remember what I used."},{"startTime":788.064,"endTime":790.494,"body":"Anyway, the straightness"},{"startTime":788.064,"endTime":790.494,"body":"of the lines is starting to"},{"startTime":790.494,"endTime":791.424,"body":"become the point of this story."},{"startTime":791.424,"endTime":791.874,"body":"That's weird."},{"startTime":792.104,"endTime":795.844,"body":"But I, I remember I said every, every"},{"startTime":792.104,"endTime":795.844,"body":"executive you need to have their"},{"startTime":795.864,"endTime":798.734,"body":"departments as swim lanes and then"},{"startTime":795.864,"endTime":798.734,"body":"the executive speaks as a swim lane."},{"startTime":798.884,"endTime":801.794,"body":"So what is sales doing right now,"},{"startTime":798.884,"endTime":801.794,"body":"what are they doing right now?"},{"startTime":801.874,"endTime":802.904,"body":"Well, they're trying to sell this."},{"startTime":803.254,"endTime":804.794,"body":"Well, engineering is not building that."},{"startTime":804.884,"endTime":805.824,"body":"Why are they selling that?"},{"startTime":805.974,"endTime":806.344,"body":"You know?"},{"startTime":806.494,"endTime":810.204,"body":"This is basically start lining up and"},{"startTime":806.494,"endTime":810.204,"body":"then, and then there's, there's product"},{"startTime":810.204,"endTime":812.234,"body":"stuff, but then there's all product"},{"startTime":810.204,"endTime":812.234,"body":"marketing stuff, but then there's"},{"startTime":812.234,"endTime":814.264,"body":"also like internal culture stuff."},{"startTime":814.414,"endTime":815.134,"body":"Where does that live?"},{"startTime":815.134,"endTime":816.084,"body":"Does that live on this?"},{"startTime":816.144,"endTime":819.124,"body":"If it doesn't live on this board and"},{"startTime":816.144,"endTime":819.124,"body":"it's, and you don't have any other"},{"startTime":819.124,"endTime":821.644,"body":"way of capturing it, I'm going to"},{"startTime":819.124,"endTime":821.644,"body":"assume it just isn't getting done."},{"startTime":821.794,"endTime":825.094,"body":"It's probably getting lost actually,"},{"startTime":821.794,"endTime":825.094,"body":"if it's not there because if it's not"},{"startTime":825.094,"endTime":828.014,"body":"there at this level, it's probably"},{"startTime":825.094,"endTime":828.014,"body":"not there at the lower level."},{"startTime":828.044,"endTime":828.204,"body":"So."},{"startTime":828.354,"endTime":830.664,"body":"To, to carry your example"},{"startTime":828.354,"endTime":830.664,"body":"for just a little bit."},{"startTime":830.814,"endTime":835.104,"body":"Let's say the, the CFO's there, so"},{"startTime":830.814,"endTime":835.104,"body":"they have a, a lane on that board"},{"startTime":835.104,"endTime":839.244,"body":"finance, and there's stickies that"},{"startTime":835.104,"endTime":839.244,"body":"represent initiatives that they're"},{"startTime":839.244,"endTime":843.014,"body":"working on, but the finance person"},{"startTime":839.244,"endTime":843.014,"body":"gets to talk about that, right?"},{"startTime":843.019,"endTime":847.064,"body":"The, the, the head finance person here,"},{"startTime":843.019,"endTime":847.064,"body":"leadership, probably a C-level person."},{"startTime":847.064,"endTime":847.154,"body":"Mm-hmm."},{"startTime":847.424,"endTime":848.774,"body":", but they're not executing on it."},{"startTime":848.804,"endTime":851.384,"body":"What they are accountable"},{"startTime":848.804,"endTime":851.384,"body":"for is moving that forward."},{"startTime":851.534,"endTime":853.564,"body":"Typically delegate that"},{"startTime":851.534,"endTime":853.564,"body":"down to their team."},{"startTime":853.714,"endTime":857.864,"body":"If it's not on this board, you can be"},{"startTime":853.714,"endTime":857.864,"body":"sure it's not on the team board either."},{"startTime":857.904,"endTime":858.224,"body":"Right."},{"startTime":858.224,"endTime":860.344,"body":"Cause the team's so"},{"startTime":858.224,"endTime":860.344,"body":"mired in the day to day."},{"startTime":860.494,"endTime":863.684,"body":"Yeah, I always wanted to go into"},{"startTime":860.494,"endTime":863.684,"body":"an office like that and just use"},{"startTime":863.684,"endTime":866.714,"body":"like a permanent marker to draw"},{"startTime":863.684,"endTime":866.714,"body":"these, even if they're not straight."},{"startTime":866.764,"endTime":867.014,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":867.044,"endTime":870.519,"body":"So that they're captured perpetuity,"},{"startTime":867.044,"endTime":870.519,"body":"but blue tape works well."},{"startTime":870.579,"endTime":873.419,"body":"And every time you go through a corporate"},{"startTime":870.579,"endTime":873.419,"body":"restructure, you got to repaint the wall."},{"startTime":873.429,"endTime":874.869,"body":"Cause you got to change your teams."},{"startTime":875.049,"endTime":875.469,"body":"That's right."},{"startTime":875.619,"endTime":878.729,"body":"Now this it was pretty easy because"},{"startTime":875.619,"endTime":878.729,"body":"the, the, it was a small company"},{"startTime":878.739,"endTime":881.709,"body":"and they only had I think three"},{"startTime":878.739,"endTime":881.709,"body":"C level executives, maybe four."},{"startTime":881.709,"endTime":885.759,"body":"So it was like a four swim lanes"},{"startTime":881.709,"endTime":885.759,"body":"and every department and every"},{"startTime":885.929,"endTime":888.359,"body":"person in the organization was"},{"startTime":885.929,"endTime":888.359,"body":"captured under the swim lanes."},{"startTime":888.359,"endTime":890.569,"body":"But it's like when you hear it, when"},{"startTime":888.359,"endTime":890.569,"body":"you go in front of the company and you"},{"startTime":890.569,"endTime":894.024,"body":"hear like company events somebody might"},{"startTime":890.569,"endTime":894.024,"body":"say like, Oh It's hard to hire people"},{"startTime":894.024,"endTime":898.484,"body":"because you know, traditionally we pay"},{"startTime":894.024,"endTime":898.484,"body":"below the market, whatever well, I'll"},{"startTime":898.484,"endTime":904.619,"body":"have a HR CFO or somebody pull some"},{"startTime":898.484,"endTime":904.619,"body":"salary surveys, the current salary"},{"startTime":904.619,"endTime":906.069,"body":"surveys to see if that's true or not."},{"startTime":906.219,"endTime":908.769,"body":"I remember I was like, I was at"},{"startTime":906.219,"endTime":908.769,"body":"a company one time where I heard"},{"startTime":908.769,"endTime":909.599,"body":"that we heard that all the time."},{"startTime":909.599,"endTime":911.949,"body":"So we always assess the market"},{"startTime":909.599,"endTime":911.949,"body":"and we always looking at,"},{"startTime":912.169,"endTime":913.089,"body":"we want to be competitive."},{"startTime":913.089,"endTime":916.129,"body":"We want to have, make sure we can"},{"startTime":913.089,"endTime":916.129,"body":"retain and hire the best people."},{"startTime":916.349,"endTime":919.079,"body":"And then that you'd hear, you'd hear"},{"startTime":916.349,"endTime":919.079,"body":"that in all hands meeting and then."},{"startTime":919.229,"endTime":922.304,"body":"Nothing, nothing, nothing and I'm like,"},{"startTime":919.229,"endTime":922.304,"body":"is this just something you guys say in"},{"startTime":922.304,"endTime":925.024,"body":"the old hands and it goes that this is"},{"startTime":922.304,"endTime":925.024,"body":"what I'm, this is the, this is the say"},{"startTime":925.024,"endTime":928.444,"body":"do ratio I'm talking about now what's"},{"startTime":925.024,"endTime":928.444,"body":"coming up with the, Oh, we're going to"},{"startTime":928.444,"endTime":930.444,"body":"move, we, we might move corporate offices."},{"startTime":930.444,"endTime":931.934,"body":"Well, we'll let you know"},{"startTime":930.444,"endTime":931.934,"body":"when we figure it out."},{"startTime":931.934,"endTime":933.804,"body":"Well, when are you guys"},{"startTime":931.934,"endTime":933.804,"body":"going to figure that out?"},{"startTime":933.974,"endTime":934.854,"body":"Who owns it?"},{"startTime":934.854,"endTime":935.384,"body":"Who owns that?"},{"startTime":935.384,"endTime":936.244,"body":"Where does it live?"},{"startTime":936.394,"endTime":941.099,"body":"You know, who can I go to when I think, I"},{"startTime":936.394,"endTime":941.099,"body":"think about JIRA is like at any time as a"},{"startTime":941.099,"endTime":942.809,"body":"product manager, you can go to my backlog."},{"startTime":942.809,"endTime":942.824,"body":"Okay."},{"startTime":943.094,"endTime":947.584,"body":"Click on the item that I talk about"},{"startTime":943.094,"endTime":947.584,"body":"in my law, like high level updates."},{"startTime":947.734,"endTime":949.644,"body":"And you can go read all"},{"startTime":947.734,"endTime":949.644,"body":"the details you want you."},{"startTime":949.644,"endTime":953.514,"body":"If you really want to be in the know, my"},{"startTime":949.644,"endTime":953.514,"body":"S my system is completely transparent to"},{"startTime":953.514,"endTime":954.989,"body":"you and it's allowed, it's no problem."},{"startTime":954.999,"endTime":959.104,"body":"You know, go click it, but I know you"},{"startTime":954.999,"endTime":959.104,"body":"won't, but it's there in case you want to."},{"startTime":959.254,"endTime":962.204,"body":"So a Kanban board like that,"},{"startTime":959.254,"endTime":962.204,"body":"especially the leadership level,"},{"startTime":962.264,"endTime":964.694,"body":"it's not a one on one and done right?"},{"startTime":964.754,"endTime":967.514,"body":"You treat that just like"},{"startTime":964.754,"endTime":967.514,"body":"any other Kanban team."},{"startTime":967.584,"endTime":971.034,"body":"In other words, you meet every"},{"startTime":967.584,"endTime":971.034,"body":"day and say, what is stopping"},{"startTime":971.034,"endTime":972.844,"body":"us moving any of those tickets?"},{"startTime":972.844,"endTime":974.944,"body":"No, what's stopping us moving"},{"startTime":972.844,"endTime":974.944,"body":"it to the to the right?"},{"startTime":975.094,"endTime":979.474,"body":"We're talking about Transparency as well"},{"startTime":975.094,"endTime":979.474,"body":"as accountability in the bigger picture."},{"startTime":979.494,"endTime":982.544,"body":"So you have X number of C level folks"},{"startTime":979.494,"endTime":982.544,"body":"that are all in the meeting, right?"},{"startTime":982.774,"endTime":986.484,"body":"And they can see that a promise was"},{"startTime":982.774,"endTime":986.484,"body":"made, the say piece of it and then"},{"startTime":986.484,"endTime":990.514,"body":"the next day it's like, Okay, what"},{"startTime":986.484,"endTime":990.514,"body":"do you need to get this to done?"},{"startTime":990.614,"endTime":991.264,"body":"Right, right."},{"startTime":991.414,"endTime":994.744,"body":"Unless you're doing that, Yeah,"},{"startTime":991.414,"endTime":994.744,"body":"you're just wasting time, honestly."},{"startTime":994.914,"endTime":995.154,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":995.184,"endTime":996.724,"body":"Because eventually things will just get..."},{"startTime":996.984,"endTime":998.254,"body":"You know, swept away."},{"startTime":998.304,"endTime":1000.974,"body":"Well, I would, I mean, I think you"},{"startTime":998.304,"endTime":1000.974,"body":"need to do something like that in"},{"startTime":1000.974,"endTime":1005.229,"body":"order to stress continuous improvement"},{"startTime":1000.974,"endTime":1005.229,"body":"like you can, you can we started off"},{"startTime":1005.229,"endTime":1006.809,"body":"as like, well, highlight the ROI and."},{"startTime":1006.959,"endTime":1010.369,"body":"Connect get, get your, get your"},{"startTime":1006.959,"endTime":1010.369,"body":"posse together and roll, roll"},{"startTime":1010.369,"endTime":1012.639,"body":"out on your horses from town to"},{"startTime":1010.369,"endTime":1012.639,"body":"town in the old west or whatever."},{"startTime":1012.639,"endTime":1016.099,"body":"But you know, can, and try to connect to"},{"startTime":1012.639,"endTime":1016.099,"body":"the business objectives while you do it,"},{"startTime":1016.249,"endTime":1020.039,"body":"but it's much better to make it visible"},{"startTime":1016.249,"endTime":1020.039,"body":"and then to make it, to actually make it."},{"startTime":1020.224,"endTime":1020.804,"body":"Functional."},{"startTime":1021.074,"endTime":1023.714,"body":"And now it's part of their"},{"startTime":1021.074,"endTime":1023.714,"body":"now, now it's here every day."},{"startTime":1023.874,"endTime":1024.064,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":1024.064,"endTime":1026.514,"body":"The guy in coalition you"},{"startTime":1024.064,"endTime":1026.514,"body":"referred to is the who part"},{"startTime":1026.524,"endTime":1028.064,"body":"that's, that's obvious, right?"},{"startTime":1028.064,"endTime":1033.484,"body":"You need to know who, but also Carter"},{"startTime":1028.064,"endTime":1033.484,"body":"did talk about the burning need, right?"},{"startTime":1033.484,"endTime":1034.684,"body":"The platforms on fire."},{"startTime":1034.734,"endTime":1034.964,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":1035.064,"endTime":1037.654,"body":"So we need to create that burning need."},{"startTime":1037.654,"endTime":1040.954,"body":"Otherwise it'll be like, well we'll get"},{"startTime":1037.654,"endTime":1040.954,"body":"to it when we get to, because we're busy."},{"startTime":1041.104,"endTime":1041.434,"body":"right?"},{"startTime":1041.584,"endTime":1044.704,"body":"So there's always things to do every day."},{"startTime":1044.854,"endTime":1045.964,"body":"Are they the right things to do?"},{"startTime":1045.964,"endTime":1048.564,"body":"And then if you've already"},{"startTime":1045.964,"endTime":1048.564,"body":"committed to some sort of"},{"startTime":1048.564,"endTime":1052.034,"body":"initiative as your transformation"},{"startTime":1048.564,"endTime":1052.034,"body":"yeah, this needs to happen daily."},{"startTime":1052.184,"endTime":1053.934,"body":"So you need to remind them,"},{"startTime":1052.184,"endTime":1053.934,"body":"you need to remind them this"},{"startTime":1053.934,"endTime":1055.374,"body":"is why we're doing this, right?"},{"startTime":1055.524,"endTime":1059.484,"body":"And that say do ratio should be"},{"startTime":1055.524,"endTime":1059.484,"body":"charted as well, just like the team"},{"startTime":1059.754,"endTime":1061.744,"body":"say do ratio on a, on a dashboard."},{"startTime":1062.074,"endTime":1065.694,"body":"There should be an executive leadership"},{"startTime":1062.074,"endTime":1065.694,"body":"dashboard and people can see What"},{"startTime":1065.694,"endTime":1069.424,"body":"the overall is, as well as what"},{"startTime":1065.694,"endTime":1069.424,"body":"the individual say do ratios are."},{"startTime":1069.549,"endTime":1073.979,"body":"I mean obviously, like you start"},{"startTime":1069.549,"endTime":1073.979,"body":"with the people that you can convince"},{"startTime":1074.229,"endTime":1075.849,"body":"first, and you build from there."},{"startTime":1076.159,"endTime":1081.919,"body":"You know, I, I I once pitched a community"},{"startTime":1076.159,"endTime":1081.919,"body":"of practice for different departments."},{"startTime":1081.929,"endTime":1084.899,"body":"You know, the developers usually"},{"startTime":1081.929,"endTime":1084.899,"body":"are the first people to actually"},{"startTime":1084.899,"endTime":1086.109,"body":"get it running and have it be."},{"startTime":1086.364,"endTime":1091.044,"body":"Useful back in their work because"},{"startTime":1086.364,"endTime":1091.044,"body":"for developers to share the learnings"},{"startTime":1091.374,"endTime":1094.514,"body":"and things they're doing, like"},{"startTime":1091.374,"endTime":1094.514,"body":"actually show show pieces of code"},{"startTime":1094.664,"endTime":1097.554,"body":"that, that they're using or show new"},{"startTime":1094.664,"endTime":1097.554,"body":"technologies that they've implemented."},{"startTime":1097.629,"endTime":1101.919,"body":"What, I don't know exactly what the"},{"startTime":1097.629,"endTime":1101.919,"body":"variances, the proper frequency is, but"},{"startTime":1101.969,"endTime":1103.629,"body":"it's pretty easy to start with developers."},{"startTime":1103.779,"endTime":1106.839,"body":"It's pretty easy to start with scrum"},{"startTime":1103.779,"endTime":1106.839,"body":"masters although I don't know how many."},{"startTime":1106.989,"endTime":1108.899,"body":"Yeah, well, that's a"},{"startTime":1106.989,"endTime":1108.899,"body":"problem in and of itself."},{"startTime":1108.949,"endTime":1112.249,"body":"They have more than one team, but I"},{"startTime":1108.949,"endTime":1112.249,"body":"think the guidance around the frequency"},{"startTime":1112.249,"endTime":1116.679,"body":"is you know, no less than once a month"},{"startTime":1112.249,"endTime":1116.679,"body":"on these on these community practices."},{"startTime":1116.699,"endTime":1121.094,"body":"But this is something that again, if"},{"startTime":1116.699,"endTime":1121.094,"body":"you're trying to educate and you don't"},{"startTime":1121.094,"endTime":1123.834,"body":"have the option of getting help, I"},{"startTime":1121.094,"endTime":1123.834,"body":"mean, I guess that's another option"},{"startTime":1123.894,"endTime":1127.494,"body":"that we probably could explore is you"},{"startTime":1123.894,"endTime":1127.494,"body":"know, once you have, Highlighted the"},{"startTime":1127.494,"endTime":1132.584,"body":"ROI and said that we could, there was"},{"startTime":1127.494,"endTime":1132.584,"body":"significant savings in this, should"},{"startTime":1132.584,"endTime":1135.824,"body":"we start doing these retrospectives"},{"startTime":1132.584,"endTime":1135.824,"body":"and, and treating them seriously?"},{"startTime":1135.974,"endTime":1139.334,"body":"Can we get someone who is actually"},{"startTime":1135.974,"endTime":1139.334,"body":"experienced in running retrospectives"},{"startTime":1139.484,"endTime":1142.884,"body":"to come in and help us for a"},{"startTime":1139.484,"endTime":1142.884,"body":"period of time, whatever, you know?"},{"startTime":1143.164,"endTime":1146.644,"body":"Yeah, as a, as a means to kind of"},{"startTime":1143.164,"endTime":1146.644,"body":"jumpstart, yes, that's a great idea"},{"startTime":1146.644,"endTime":1151.574,"body":"because this requires facilitation"},{"startTime":1146.644,"endTime":1151.574,"body":"skills and not everybody has"},{"startTime":1151.604,"endTime":1153.434,"body":"those on the on the team, right?"},{"startTime":1153.714,"endTime":1155.354,"body":"Scrum masters should have them."},{"startTime":1155.474,"endTime":1158.624,"body":"I'd argue anybody on the team should"},{"startTime":1155.474,"endTime":1158.624,"body":"have them, but specifically scrum"},{"startTime":1158.624,"endTime":1161.284,"body":"masters and product folks, because you're"},{"startTime":1158.624,"endTime":1161.284,"body":"always dealing with different audiences."},{"startTime":1161.504,"endTime":1163.574,"body":"You should definitely have"},{"startTime":1161.504,"endTime":1163.574,"body":"those, but that's not a given."},{"startTime":1163.574,"endTime":1166.624,"body":"So yeah, bringing somebody in for a"},{"startTime":1163.574,"endTime":1166.624,"body":"period of time to kind of jumpstart"},{"startTime":1166.624,"endTime":1168.934,"body":"your retrospective is not a bad idea."},{"startTime":1169.234,"endTime":1172.224,"body":"You're going to convince that"},{"startTime":1169.234,"endTime":1172.224,"body":"those management layers, right?"},{"startTime":1172.244,"endTime":1174.044,"body":"Why are we doing this?"},{"startTime":1174.074,"endTime":1175.414,"body":"And we're spending money on this?"},{"startTime":1175.554,"endTime":1178.774,"body":"Are you saying middle management"},{"startTime":1175.554,"endTime":1178.774,"body":"is lacking facilitation skills?"},{"startTime":1178.804,"endTime":1180.324,"body":"Oh my goodness!"},{"startTime":1181.664,"endTime":1182.044,"body":"Completely."},{"startTime":1182.104,"endTime":1183.184,"body":"Tell me other things I know."},{"startTime":1183.324,"endTime":1186.384,"body":"the continuous improvement aspect of it."},{"startTime":1186.534,"endTime":1187.534,"body":"There's a marketing problem."},{"startTime":1187.684,"endTime":1189.774,"body":"With continuous improvement,"},{"startTime":1187.684,"endTime":1189.774,"body":"I feel like that."},{"startTime":1190.104,"endTime":1193.684,"body":"Once you're once you've highlighted"},{"startTime":1190.104,"endTime":1193.684,"body":"the ROI once you've gone around just"},{"startTime":1193.894,"endTime":1198.324,"body":"key stakeholders And once you said we"},{"startTime":1193.894,"endTime":1198.324,"body":"can do XYZ like now You gotta do it."},{"startTime":1198.344,"endTime":1202.364,"body":"Congratulations You've got to do it"},{"startTime":1198.344,"endTime":1202.364,"body":"or at least you've got to paint what"},{"startTime":1202.364,"endTime":1208.054,"body":"you have done in the most I was gonna"},{"startTime":1202.364,"endTime":1208.054,"body":"say positive marketable light that"},{"startTime":1208.054,"endTime":1212.114,"body":"you can, because everything's, listen,"},{"startTime":1208.054,"endTime":1212.114,"body":"everything's riding on you know, this is"},{"startTime":1212.124,"endTime":1214.004,"body":"why it's important to pick your battle."},{"startTime":1214.014,"endTime":1217.174,"body":"This is why I say pick the areas"},{"startTime":1214.014,"endTime":1217.174,"body":"of improvement that you know, your"},{"startTime":1217.204,"endTime":1220.594,"body":"team can improve upon quickly in"},{"startTime":1217.204,"endTime":1220.594,"body":"the first few sprints, because"},{"startTime":1220.634,"endTime":1224.134,"body":"it's a CEO, you're trying to sell"},{"startTime":1220.634,"endTime":1224.134,"body":"this whole idea that retrospectives"},{"startTime":1224.154,"endTime":1226.244,"body":"are a needed and be valuable."},{"startTime":1226.514,"endTime":1230.114,"body":"So if you can do that,"},{"startTime":1226.514,"endTime":1230.114,"body":"right, then it's easier."},{"startTime":1230.344,"endTime":1235.104,"body":"To meet your own say do ratio right there"},{"startTime":1230.344,"endTime":1235.104,"body":"and say the team decided to improve on"},{"startTime":1235.104,"endTime":1239.354,"body":"these two things Here's how we did right"},{"startTime":1235.104,"endTime":1239.354,"body":"show tangible improvements as a result"},{"startTime":1239.374,"endTime":1243.894,"body":"of Breaking down stories smaller, we were"},{"startTime":1239.374,"endTime":1243.894,"body":"able to complete more stories than not."},{"startTime":1243.944,"endTime":1248.094,"body":"We had one left over, and that's because"},{"startTime":1243.944,"endTime":1248.094,"body":"of lack of clarity on the requirements."},{"startTime":1248.364,"endTime":1250.184,"body":"Here's what we decided to do on that."},{"startTime":1250.334,"endTime":1251.584,"body":"Like, just build on it."},{"startTime":1251.624,"endTime":1251.864,"body":"Right?"},{"startTime":1251.864,"endTime":1252.714,"body":"Sprint on sprint."},{"startTime":1252.864,"endTime":1254.204,"body":"And, don't stop there."},{"startTime":1254.314,"endTime":1255.534,"body":"Don't, don't, don't stop."},{"startTime":1255.554,"endTime":1257.814,"body":"This is what I call"},{"startTime":1255.554,"endTime":1257.814,"body":"mechanical facilitation."},{"startTime":1257.824,"endTime":1260.904,"body":"Don't just say we did this many"},{"startTime":1257.824,"endTime":1260.904,"body":"stories instead of this, that many."},{"startTime":1261.054,"endTime":1262.204,"body":"What is the impact of that?"},{"startTime":1262.464,"endTime":1262.744,"body":"Right?"},{"startTime":1262.804,"endTime":1264.734,"body":"As a result, we delivered."},{"startTime":1264.884,"endTime":1267.264,"body":"This feature to the customer, right?"},{"startTime":1267.314,"endTime":1269.984,"body":"Or in UAT, it doesn't"},{"startTime":1267.314,"endTime":1269.984,"body":"matter, whatever it is."},{"startTime":1270.004,"endTime":1274.694,"body":"It's a real benefit that"},{"startTime":1270.004,"endTime":1274.694,"body":"resulted from this retrospective"},{"startTime":1274.744,"endTime":1276.314,"body":"and process improvement."},{"startTime":1276.324,"endTime":1279.414,"body":"So if you can do that, I think"},{"startTime":1276.324,"endTime":1279.414,"body":"you'll, you'll soon get those"},{"startTime":1279.414,"endTime":1280.684,"body":"people to leave you alone."},{"startTime":1280.684,"endTime":1284.614,"body":"And you can actually get on with doing"},{"startTime":1280.684,"endTime":1284.614,"body":"retrospect is every single sprint."},{"startTime":1284.864,"endTime":1287.554,"body":"So say what you're going to do,"},{"startTime":1284.864,"endTime":1287.554,"body":"do what you said you were going to"},{"startTime":1287.554,"endTime":1290.334,"body":"do, and then go back and talk about"},{"startTime":1287.554,"endTime":1290.334,"body":"it and say, this is what we said."},{"startTime":1290.344,"endTime":1291.064,"body":"Here's what we did."},{"startTime":1291.329,"endTime":1293.809,"body":"And we've done it, so we're"},{"startTime":1291.329,"endTime":1293.809,"body":"going to keep doing this, right?"},{"startTime":1293.959,"endTime":1295.399,"body":"Don't ask permission at that point."},{"startTime":1295.474,"endTime":1300.944,"body":"What if the pushback is I had a,"},{"startTime":1295.474,"endTime":1300.944,"body":"I'm, I, it wasn't exactly this"},{"startTime":1301.154,"endTime":1304.824,"body":"exact pushback, but it was very"},{"startTime":1301.154,"endTime":1304.824,"body":"close to what I'm about to say."},{"startTime":1304.974,"endTime":1308.954,"body":"It basically was, you guys don't"},{"startTime":1304.974,"endTime":1308.954,"body":"need to spend a bunch of time not"},{"startTime":1308.964,"endTime":1312.554,"body":"coding without hands on keyboards,"},{"startTime":1308.964,"endTime":1312.554,"body":"doing these retrospective things."},{"startTime":1312.584,"endTime":1313.754,"body":"Whenever you have an idea..."},{"startTime":1314.084,"endTime":1318.614,"body":"Just bring it to me, the VP, or"},{"startTime":1314.084,"endTime":1318.614,"body":"director, or department, or whatever,"},{"startTime":1318.614,"endTime":1321.144,"body":"and I'll, I'll implement the improvement."},{"startTime":1321.294,"endTime":1324.124,"body":"And then you don't have to waste,"},{"startTime":1321.294,"endTime":1324.124,"body":"and I'll, I'll get rid of the bad"},{"startTime":1324.124,"endTime":1325.354,"body":"ones and I'll keep the good ones."},{"startTime":1325.354,"endTime":1327.834,"body":"And you don't have to waste"},{"startTime":1325.354,"endTime":1327.834,"body":"time with the whole team."},{"startTime":1328.084,"endTime":1329.304,"body":"This is classic dictation."},{"startTime":1329.364,"endTime":1332.414,"body":"And you'll, you'll"},{"startTime":1329.364,"endTime":1332.414,"body":"implement the improvement."},{"startTime":1332.424,"endTime":1334.294,"body":"So how, how do you exactly do that?"},{"startTime":1334.304,"endTime":1335.544,"body":"Cause you're not hands on coder."},{"startTime":1335.544,"endTime":1337.564,"body":"Anyway, you're going to"},{"startTime":1335.544,"endTime":1337.564,"body":"tell people that are."},{"startTime":1337.714,"endTime":1340.844,"body":"Do what I say, this is"},{"startTime":1337.714,"endTime":1340.844,"body":"again, directives, right?"},{"startTime":1341.034,"endTime":1343.804,"body":"So remember David"},{"startTime":1341.034,"endTime":1343.804,"body":"Marquette said directives."},{"startTime":1343.824,"endTime":1347.874,"body":"If you want people to think, don't give"},{"startTime":1343.824,"endTime":1347.874,"body":"them directives, give them intent, right?"},{"startTime":1348.124,"endTime":1351.054,"body":"If you give them intent, then they will"},{"startTime":1348.124,"endTime":1351.054,"body":"think and come up with the best solution."},{"startTime":1351.224,"endTime":1354.054,"body":"You're not going to convince the"},{"startTime":1351.224,"endTime":1354.054,"body":"manager who says that to you, right?"},{"startTime":1354.374,"endTime":1358.294,"body":"So here's where I, I don't know if this"},{"startTime":1354.374,"endTime":1358.294,"body":"is even right to do this on the podcast."},{"startTime":1358.354,"endTime":1359.814,"body":"Here's what I, what I would say."},{"startTime":1359.824,"endTime":1363.854,"body":"Somebody like me might suggest"},{"startTime":1359.824,"endTime":1363.854,"body":"doing some guerrilla tactics here."},{"startTime":1364.004,"endTime":1365.074,"body":"Do the retrospectives."},{"startTime":1365.104,"endTime":1366.124,"body":"Nobody knows you're doing them."},{"startTime":1366.274,"endTime":1367.124,"body":"Then what happens?"},{"startTime":1367.274,"endTime":1367.624,"body":"Right?"},{"startTime":1367.944,"endTime":1372.374,"body":"So you have less pushback because, well,"},{"startTime":1367.944,"endTime":1372.374,"body":"no one is aware that you're doing them."},{"startTime":1372.524,"endTime":1373.844,"body":"So get your team together."},{"startTime":1373.994,"endTime":1374.784,"body":"Sneak them in."},{"startTime":1374.834,"endTime":1378.174,"body":"You don't have to necessarily"},{"startTime":1374.834,"endTime":1378.174,"body":"do them as a stand alone event."},{"startTime":1378.234,"endTime":1380.034,"body":"Preferably, you should do that."},{"startTime":1380.184,"endTime":1383.734,"body":"But if you're prevented from doing that,"},{"startTime":1380.184,"endTime":1383.734,"body":"or there's a lot of pushback against"},{"startTime":1383.734,"endTime":1385.514,"body":"it, Have another refinement session."},{"startTime":1385.584,"endTime":1388.324,"body":"Refine a story in that"},{"startTime":1385.584,"endTime":1388.324,"body":"hour, hour and a half."},{"startTime":1388.474,"endTime":1389.064,"body":"One story."},{"startTime":1389.194,"endTime":1391.734,"body":"And then spend the rest"},{"startTime":1389.194,"endTime":1391.734,"body":"of the time on reflection."},{"startTime":1391.884,"endTime":1395.484,"body":"Change up the word retrospective"},{"startTime":1391.884,"endTime":1395.484,"body":"when you're discussing"},{"startTime":1395.484,"endTime":1396.834,"body":"this with your teammates."},{"startTime":1397.114,"endTime":1400.724,"body":"So one of your teammates doesn't"},{"startTime":1397.114,"endTime":1400.724,"body":"blurt it out to someone, then it"},{"startTime":1400.724,"endTime":1402.484,"body":"gets up to you know, management."},{"startTime":1402.504,"endTime":1403.644,"body":"Oh, that was a retrospective?"},{"startTime":1403.694,"endTime":1404.004,"body":"No."},{"startTime":1404.154,"endTime":1406.244,"body":"That word isn't talked about now."},{"startTime":1406.254,"endTime":1408.694,"body":"We're simply going to"},{"startTime":1406.254,"endTime":1408.694,"body":"reflect upon how we did."},{"startTime":1408.844,"endTime":1412.314,"body":"When I look back and see how we can"},{"startTime":1408.844,"endTime":1412.314,"body":"improve any of those words, like"},{"startTime":1412.514,"endTime":1416.264,"body":"whatever, pick something, don't use"},{"startTime":1412.514,"endTime":1416.264,"body":"the word that is a trigger word, right?"},{"startTime":1416.584,"endTime":1418.524,"body":"So guerrilla tactics sometimes."},{"startTime":1418.674,"endTime":1422.274,"body":"You know, work, but you have to use"},{"startTime":1418.674,"endTime":1422.274,"body":"'em sparingly and you have to use 'em"},{"startTime":1422.274,"endTime":1424.134,"body":"exactly when they're needed and no more."},{"startTime":1424.314,"endTime":1424.404,"body":"Mm-hmm."},{"startTime":1424.604,"endTime":1427.455,"body":"My example was the opposite of team"},{"startTime":1424.604,"endTime":1427.455,"body":"empowerment is like, Hey, yeah,"},{"startTime":1427.46,"endTime":1428.824,"body":"definitely team disempowerment."},{"startTime":1428.864,"endTime":1429.524,"body":"Yeah, that's right."},{"startTime":1429.584,"endTime":1429.974,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":1429.974,"endTime":1432.374,"body":"I'll, I'll just tell you"},{"startTime":1429.974,"endTime":1432.374,"body":"what you need to, like what"},{"startTime":1432.429,"endTime":1435.609,"body":"I'm trying to think if, if this is,"},{"startTime":1432.429,"endTime":1435.609,"body":"this is a completely different podcast."},{"startTime":1435.609,"endTime":1439.449,"body":"The, the topic of team empowerment,"},{"startTime":1435.609,"endTime":1439.449,"body":"but I was gonna say may, maybe"},{"startTime":1439.449,"endTime":1440.439,"body":"just because we are here."},{"startTime":1440.589,"endTime":1445.259,"body":"Like if you are working for a manager like"},{"startTime":1440.589,"endTime":1445.259,"body":"that, that completely is the opposite of"},{"startTime":1445.259,"endTime":1449.299,"body":"team empowerment other than just do it and"},{"startTime":1445.259,"endTime":1449.299,"body":"don't tell them, which I can't, which I"},{"startTime":1449.299,"endTime":1453.859,"body":"am a big fan of, but also like keep your"},{"startTime":1449.299,"endTime":1453.859,"body":"resume updated with tactics like that."},{"startTime":1453.939,"endTime":1455.149,"body":"I'm not saying it won't be effective."},{"startTime":1455.149,"endTime":1457.179,"body":"I'm just saying like, that's"},{"startTime":1455.149,"endTime":1457.179,"body":"the kind of environment where,"},{"startTime":1457.209,"endTime":1459.039,"body":"because usually managers like that."},{"startTime":1459.189,"endTime":1465.089,"body":"They have, they have their, quote,"},{"startTime":1459.189,"endTime":1465.089,"body":"eyes and ears out in the organization."},{"startTime":1465.099,"endTime":1465.609,"body":"They sure do."},{"startTime":1465.609,"endTime":1469.859,"body":"And the minute the retrospective"},{"startTime":1465.609,"endTime":1469.859,"body":"improves productivity, they'll be the"},{"startTime":1469.859,"endTime":1471.399,"body":"first ones to claim credit for it."},{"startTime":1471.549,"endTime":1475.979,"body":"And the minute that something"},{"startTime":1471.549,"endTime":1475.979,"body":"happens that does not, Then they"},{"startTime":1475.979,"endTime":1479.199,"body":"will be blaming you and saying"},{"startTime":1475.979,"endTime":1479.199,"body":"that you did it behind their backs."},{"startTime":1479.219,"endTime":1481.879,"body":"And you know, all the, all the"},{"startTime":1479.219,"endTime":1481.879,"body":"negative connotations that people"},{"startTime":1481.879,"endTime":1485.584,"body":"might think of cause cause every,"},{"startTime":1481.879,"endTime":1485.584,"body":"any team that's actually empowered,"},{"startTime":1485.784,"endTime":1486.854,"body":"this wouldn't be a problem."},{"startTime":1487.074,"endTime":1488.984,"body":"The team, the team is managing themselves."},{"startTime":1489.274,"endTime":1491.084,"body":"The team is organizing"},{"startTime":1489.274,"endTime":1491.084,"body":"and managing themselves."},{"startTime":1491.234,"endTime":1494.084,"body":"They say they need to stop"},{"startTime":1491.234,"endTime":1494.084,"body":"and examine something and"},{"startTime":1494.404,"endTime":1495.574,"body":"figure out how to improve it."},{"startTime":1495.794,"endTime":1497.534,"body":"Then they're taking the"},{"startTime":1495.794,"endTime":1497.534,"body":"time and doing that."},{"startTime":1497.684,"endTime":1499.554,"body":"I trust the team to do it."},{"startTime":1499.704,"endTime":1500.664,"body":"This is the opposite of that."},{"startTime":1500.814,"endTime":1502.854,"body":"The opposite of that is,"},{"startTime":1500.814,"endTime":1502.854,"body":"well, obviously, right?"},{"startTime":1502.854,"endTime":1504.444,"body":"I mean, you don't trust the team to do it."},{"startTime":1504.674,"endTime":1509.884,"body":"To your point, though, about getting"},{"startTime":1504.674,"endTime":1509.884,"body":"blamed and them stealing, robbing credit."},{"startTime":1510.034,"endTime":1511.064,"body":"We shouldn't be in that."},{"startTime":1511.214,"endTime":1513.664,"body":"Market of like working for the credit."},{"startTime":1513.674,"endTime":1517.024,"body":"However, however, we should"},{"startTime":1513.674,"endTime":1517.024,"body":"be in the market of deflecting"},{"startTime":1517.024,"endTime":1518.264,"body":"blame when it's not deserved."},{"startTime":1518.304,"endTime":1520.204,"body":"I'm a full proponent of that."},{"startTime":1520.214,"endTime":1524.294,"body":"So when something works well, and"},{"startTime":1520.214,"endTime":1524.294,"body":"let's say the team actually made an"},{"startTime":1524.294,"endTime":1526.924,"body":"improvement and you can show that, right?"},{"startTime":1527.024,"endTime":1530.864,"body":"Go back to that manager and"},{"startTime":1527.024,"endTime":1530.864,"body":"say, thank you for letting us Do"},{"startTime":1530.974,"endTime":1532.714,"body":"the retrospective as a result."},{"startTime":1532.714,"endTime":1533.804,"body":"Here's what's happened."},{"startTime":1533.954,"endTime":1538.094,"body":"In other words, implicitly, you're"},{"startTime":1533.954,"endTime":1538.094,"body":"giving them the credit for allowing"},{"startTime":1538.094,"endTime":1540.544,"body":"the retrospective to even take place."},{"startTime":1540.694,"endTime":1543.764,"body":"Think about what's going to happen the"},{"startTime":1540.694,"endTime":1543.764,"body":"next time you want to do a retrospective."},{"startTime":1543.914,"endTime":1546.634,"body":"If you've done that, right, chances"},{"startTime":1543.914,"endTime":1546.634,"body":"are high that they're going to say."},{"startTime":1546.784,"endTime":1547.564,"body":"Oh, okay."},{"startTime":1547.714,"endTime":1549.284,"body":"Because they're getting"},{"startTime":1547.714,"endTime":1549.284,"body":"something for free."},{"startTime":1549.314,"endTime":1550.394,"body":"They're not doing any work."},{"startTime":1550.404,"endTime":1551.284,"body":"They're getting the credit."},{"startTime":1551.434,"endTime":1553.474,"body":"Now let me talk about the"},{"startTime":1551.434,"endTime":1553.474,"body":"other side of the equation."},{"startTime":1553.514,"endTime":1554.594,"body":"Getting the blame for it."},{"startTime":1554.604,"endTime":1557.694,"body":"I mean that's a, that's a really smart"},{"startTime":1554.604,"endTime":1557.694,"body":"tactic, but like, I just want to pause"},{"startTime":1557.694,"endTime":1561.344,"body":"here and and say that's a really smart"},{"startTime":1557.694,"endTime":1561.344,"body":"tactic because it, it, it, it helped"},{"startTime":1561.444,"endTime":1563.184,"body":"the person in my situation narcissist."},{"startTime":1565.869,"endTime":1571.009,"body":"So it really would have made an impact"},{"startTime":1565.869,"endTime":1571.009,"body":"on that individual to just shoot out an"},{"startTime":1571.009,"endTime":1574.849,"body":"email, kind of going in front of them"},{"startTime":1571.009,"endTime":1574.849,"body":"to say, Hey, we made an improvement and"},{"startTime":1574.849,"endTime":1576.019,"body":"it had nothing to do with that person."},{"startTime":1576.019,"endTime":1580.459,"body":"But I want to thank that person for"},{"startTime":1576.019,"endTime":1580.459,"body":"giving us the space, and the time, and"},{"startTime":1580.459,"endTime":1584.649,"body":"the support to come to this decision"},{"startTime":1580.459,"endTime":1584.649,"body":"ourselves, completely separate from,"},{"startTime":1584.979,"endTime":1589.879,"body":"it would have completely worked, and,"},{"startTime":1584.979,"endTime":1589.879,"body":"and, and that individual, again, giant"},{"startTime":1589.879,"endTime":1593.514,"body":"narcissist, , it would have completely"},{"startTime":1589.879,"endTime":1593.514,"body":"flown under his radar because his head was"},{"startTime":1593.514,"endTime":1596.744,"body":"so full of hot air, he wouldn't there's"},{"startTime":1593.514,"endTime":1596.744,"body":"no way he would have intercepted that."},{"startTime":1596.894,"endTime":1597.734,"body":"He also couldn't read."},{"startTime":1597.734,"endTime":1598.484,"body":"I don't, I don't really care."},{"startTime":1598.494,"endTime":1603.034,"body":"Well, listen, a couple of, maybe more"},{"startTime":1598.494,"endTime":1603.034,"body":"than that, a few jobs ago, I had that"},{"startTime":1603.074,"endTime":1605.524,"body":"exact situation where this person was..."},{"startTime":1605.674,"endTime":1609.884,"body":"Basically just saying I want everyone"},{"startTime":1605.674,"endTime":1609.884,"body":"to be fully utilized, blah, blah, blah."},{"startTime":1610.034,"endTime":1613.884,"body":"And I use this tactic without"},{"startTime":1610.034,"endTime":1613.884,"body":"even recognizing that I used it."},{"startTime":1613.894,"endTime":1615.304,"body":"That's what I was looking back on."},{"startTime":1615.364,"endTime":1616.774,"body":"Gee, that person changed."},{"startTime":1616.804,"endTime":1618.644,"body":"Wait, what made him change?"},{"startTime":1618.964,"endTime":1620.034,"body":"This is what made it change."},{"startTime":1620.034,"endTime":1621.324,"body":"So yes, get ahead of that."},{"startTime":1621.574,"endTime":1622.374,"body":"Give them that."},{"startTime":1622.684,"endTime":1624.364,"body":"And I did something a little bit."},{"startTime":1624.514,"endTime":1625.774,"body":"Kind of risky, right?"},{"startTime":1625.974,"endTime":1626.914,"body":"But I'll put it out there."},{"startTime":1626.954,"endTime":1627.434,"body":"Risqué."},{"startTime":1627.434,"endTime":1628.544,"body":"A little risqué."},{"startTime":1628.574,"endTime":1629.874,"body":"Yeah, let's use our French words."},{"startTime":1629.904,"endTime":1630.584,"body":"Here's what I did."},{"startTime":1630.614,"endTime":1634.184,"body":"I, I invited them to"},{"startTime":1630.614,"endTime":1634.184,"body":"the first retrospective."},{"startTime":1634.334,"endTime":1639.274,"body":"And I invited them under an agreement,"},{"startTime":1634.334,"endTime":1639.274,"body":"which was the retrospective is"},{"startTime":1639.424,"endTime":1642.834,"body":"for the team to reflect upon"},{"startTime":1639.424,"endTime":1642.834,"body":"the practices of the team."},{"startTime":1642.984,"endTime":1645.894,"body":"You're a fly on the wall,"},{"startTime":1642.984,"endTime":1645.894,"body":"so I will keep you muted."},{"startTime":1646.044,"endTime":1649.464,"body":"So you can observe what this"},{"startTime":1646.044,"endTime":1649.464,"body":"thing is all about, right?"},{"startTime":1649.804,"endTime":1653.674,"body":"So we come in, I always, always,"},{"startTime":1649.804,"endTime":1653.674,"body":"always start my retrospectives"},{"startTime":1653.704,"endTime":1654.714,"body":"with the prime directive."},{"startTime":1654.864,"endTime":1657.664,"body":"So I did that, kind of went"},{"startTime":1654.864,"endTime":1657.664,"body":"over his head, but that's okay."},{"startTime":1657.934,"endTime":1660.774,"body":"And then I get into the icebreaker, right?"},{"startTime":1660.794,"endTime":1662.854,"body":"Because the team just spent"},{"startTime":1660.794,"endTime":1662.854,"body":"two weeks working hard."},{"startTime":1662.874,"endTime":1663.964,"body":"We've delivered something."},{"startTime":1664.114,"endTime":1668.489,"body":"So the icebreaker part, I could see kind"},{"startTime":1664.114,"endTime":1668.489,"body":"of I could see his face getting all like,"},{"startTime":1668.499,"endTime":1670.539,"body":"what are these people even doing here?"},{"startTime":1670.689,"endTime":1672.699,"body":"That was only five"},{"startTime":1670.689,"endTime":1672.699,"body":"minutes as an icebreaker."},{"startTime":1672.849,"endTime":1674.279,"body":"And after that we get into this."},{"startTime":1674.429,"endTime":1678.709,"body":"People were free spiritally just like"},{"startTime":1674.429,"endTime":1678.709,"body":"putting in, that's not even a word freely."},{"startTime":1678.769,"endTime":1679.289,"body":"It is now."},{"startTime":1679.319,"endTime":1681.809,"body":"Putting in their thoughts, anonymously."},{"startTime":1682.159,"endTime":1682.189,"body":"Mm hmm."},{"startTime":1682.339,"endTime":1683.239,"body":"On stickies."},{"startTime":1683.559,"endTime":1686.079,"body":"We were still using at that"},{"startTime":1683.559,"endTime":1686.079,"body":"time we were just using a like"},{"startTime":1686.079,"endTime":1689.459,"body":"a rudimentary collaboration"},{"startTime":1686.079,"endTime":1689.459,"body":"tool, but it was a digital tool."},{"startTime":1689.459,"endTime":1689.689,"body":"Sure, sure."},{"startTime":1689.689,"endTime":1692.579,"body":"So they would put their stickies in"},{"startTime":1689.689,"endTime":1692.579,"body":"and nobody knew who was writing what."},{"startTime":1692.729,"endTime":1693.669,"body":"And then they voted."},{"startTime":1693.819,"endTime":1694.129,"body":"Right."},{"startTime":1694.129,"endTime":1697.454,"body":"So the highest democratically, the"},{"startTime":1694.129,"endTime":1697.454,"body":"highest vote getters are what we"},{"startTime":1697.454,"endTime":1701.294,"body":"discussed and When it came time to"},{"startTime":1697.454,"endTime":1701.294,"body":"pulling them into adopting them as"},{"startTime":1701.334,"endTime":1703.444,"body":"actions, I asked the team, which ones?"},{"startTime":1703.484,"endTime":1705.954,"body":"Obviously the the highest"},{"startTime":1703.484,"endTime":1705.954,"body":"voted ones are prime candidate."},{"startTime":1705.984,"endTime":1709.354,"body":"We don't have to take them if we"},{"startTime":1705.984,"endTime":1709.354,"body":"don't think that we can actually"},{"startTime":1709.354,"endTime":1710.764,"body":"deliver them in the next sprint."},{"startTime":1710.914,"endTime":1713.004,"body":"Now, do you have to deliver"},{"startTime":1710.914,"endTime":1713.004,"body":"them in the next sprint?"},{"startTime":1713.024,"endTime":1713.244,"body":"No."},{"startTime":1713.244,"endTime":1717.134,"body":"But given the situation where"},{"startTime":1713.244,"endTime":1717.134,"body":"we were being watched by hawks I"},{"startTime":1717.134,"endTime":1720.124,"body":"wanted to make sure there was some"},{"startTime":1717.134,"endTime":1720.124,"body":"tangible improvement at the end of"},{"startTime":1720.124,"endTime":1721.794,"body":"that two weeks, the next two weeks."},{"startTime":1721.944,"endTime":1723.514,"body":"And the team only voted on one."},{"startTime":1723.664,"endTime":1726.704,"body":"I mean, they voted on two or three, but"},{"startTime":1723.664,"endTime":1726.704,"body":"they said, just take that one because"},{"startTime":1726.704,"endTime":1728.984,"body":"we know we can deliver it in good faith."},{"startTime":1729.064,"endTime":1733.294,"body":"But as a stretch goal, can"},{"startTime":1729.064,"endTime":1733.294,"body":"we pick up another one?"},{"startTime":1733.514,"endTime":1735.254,"body":"And I'm like, what to do now?"},{"startTime":1735.264,"endTime":1737.414,"body":"Because this guy's aware of stretch goals."},{"startTime":1737.424,"endTime":1740.849,"body":"He's loaded us up before with stretch"},{"startTime":1737.424,"endTime":1740.849,"body":"goals to do with work, not retro items."},{"startTime":1740.999,"endTime":1744.859,"body":"And I refused them as this is not a"},{"startTime":1740.999,"endTime":1744.859,"body":"good idea, but here's what we do that."},{"startTime":1744.859,"endTime":1747.479,"body":"Number two, we're going"},{"startTime":1744.859,"endTime":1747.479,"body":"to keep that right."},{"startTime":1747.629,"endTime":1751.979,"body":"And if we deliver on this, like if we"},{"startTime":1747.629,"endTime":1751.979,"body":"actually adopt these practices, then we"},{"startTime":1751.979,"endTime":1755.559,"body":"can pull that in and we may not deliver"},{"startTime":1751.979,"endTime":1755.559,"body":"that because depending on when you pull"},{"startTime":1755.559,"endTime":1759.419,"body":"it in, in the next sprint, but then we'll"},{"startTime":1755.559,"endTime":1759.419,"body":"just float it over to the sprint after."},{"startTime":1759.489,"endTime":1759.729,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":1759.809,"endTime":1760.079,"body":"Right."},{"startTime":1760.089,"endTime":1764.239,"body":"He saw the process, but the point,"},{"startTime":1760.089,"endTime":1764.239,"body":"sorry, long, long story long."},{"startTime":1764.369,"endTime":1767.369,"body":"the point, my story was When"},{"startTime":1764.369,"endTime":1767.369,"body":"I invited him, I said, if you"},{"startTime":1767.369,"endTime":1768.619,"body":"want to contribute, you can."},{"startTime":1768.849,"endTime":1770.549,"body":"And he said, you're"},{"startTime":1768.849,"endTime":1770.549,"body":"going to put me on mute."},{"startTime":1770.649,"endTime":1771.609,"body":"How can I contribute?"},{"startTime":1771.619,"endTime":1774.459,"body":"I said, well, how about"},{"startTime":1771.619,"endTime":1774.459,"body":"buying pizza for the team?"},{"startTime":1774.609,"endTime":1775.239,"body":"I asked."},{"startTime":1775.389,"endTime":1776.479,"body":"It was declined."},{"startTime":1776.829,"endTime":1777.299,"body":"That's fine."},{"startTime":1777.619,"endTime":1782.259,"body":"So in the email that went out, the sprint"},{"startTime":1777.619,"endTime":1782.259,"body":"after, I basically said, thank you for"},{"startTime":1782.259,"endTime":1785.519,"body":"giving us the opportunity to, to perform"},{"startTime":1782.259,"endTime":1785.519,"body":"a retrospective, blah, blah, blah."},{"startTime":1785.529,"endTime":1787.839,"body":"Here's what we said we would do,"},{"startTime":1785.529,"endTime":1787.839,"body":"here's what we did, et cetera."},{"startTime":1787.989,"endTime":1789.339,"body":"And the team loved."},{"startTime":1789.654,"endTime":1792.584,"body":"The fact that you're supportive and"},{"startTime":1789.654,"endTime":1792.584,"body":"they're looking forward to having"},{"startTime":1792.584,"endTime":1794.644,"body":"you back this time with pizza."},{"startTime":1794.794,"endTime":1796.604,"body":"There's a little bit"},{"startTime":1794.794,"endTime":1796.604,"body":"of pressure now, right?"},{"startTime":1796.754,"endTime":1799.314,"body":"But anyway, I'm not necessarily"},{"startTime":1796.754,"endTime":1799.314,"body":"saying you should do that."},{"startTime":1799.314,"endTime":1802.244,"body":"I'm just saying that there"},{"startTime":1799.314,"endTime":1802.244,"body":"are ways to do this, right?"},{"startTime":1802.284,"endTime":1804.234,"body":"Come up with your own way, but be brave."},{"startTime":1804.539,"endTime":1808.819,"body":"That's a brilliant idea of how"},{"startTime":1804.539,"endTime":1808.819,"body":"to bring people along, you know."},{"startTime":1808.869,"endTime":1813.069,"body":"And honestly, how to turn enemies"},{"startTime":1808.869,"endTime":1813.069,"body":"into allies, because that's really"},{"startTime":1813.219,"endTime":1814.519,"body":"what happens along the process."},{"startTime":1814.859,"endTime":1817.039,"body":"You know, again, assuming"},{"startTime":1814.859,"endTime":1817.039,"body":"they can be quiet for..."},{"startTime":1817.249,"endTime":1817.799,"body":"Period of time."},{"startTime":1817.809,"endTime":1820.069,"body":"Well, remember you're"},{"startTime":1817.809,"endTime":1820.069,"body":"facilitating the meeting."},{"startTime":1820.079,"endTime":1820.539,"body":"That's true."},{"startTime":1820.809,"endTime":1822.419,"body":"You have control over the mute button."},{"startTime":1822.519,"endTime":1823.049,"body":"That is true."},{"startTime":1823.049,"endTime":1826.739,"body":"So be courageous and use that"},{"startTime":1823.049,"endTime":1826.739,"body":"mute button and also Keep that"},{"startTime":1826.739,"endTime":1828.389,"body":"resume updated, keep it updated."},{"startTime":1828.389,"endTime":1829.289,"body":"Third time on this podcast."},{"startTime":1829.349,"endTime":1832.979,"body":"Oh, this is like, this is a, this, I just"},{"startTime":1829.349,"endTime":1832.979,"body":"wanna have a quick, a quick sh you know,"},{"startTime":1833.219,"endTime":1838.589,"body":"short to the point podcast on this subject"},{"startTime":1833.219,"endTime":1838.589,"body":"of selling management on retros, it could"},{"startTime":1838.589,"endTime":1839.819,"body":"have been selling management on anything."},{"startTime":1839.949,"endTime":1841.979,"body":"Anything like retros is a"},{"startTime":1839.949,"endTime":1841.979,"body":"good one to sell 'em on."},{"startTime":1841.979,"endTime":1846.489,"body":"Like if they're gonna lift any piece"},{"startTime":1841.979,"endTime":1846.489,"body":"of Scrum and implement it in a vacuum"},{"startTime":1846.549,"endTime":1849.939,"body":"outside of a vacuum, in an atmosphere,"},{"startTime":1846.549,"endTime":1849.939,"body":"I don't know if they're gonna implement"},{"startTime":1849.939,"endTime":1851.409,"body":"it, try to implement it anyway."},{"startTime":1851.409,"endTime":1851.41,"body":"Right."},{"startTime":1851.689,"endTime":1852.309,"body":"This is a good one."},{"startTime":1852.319,"endTime":1855.069,"body":"And you know, scrum"},{"startTime":1852.319,"endTime":1855.069,"body":"master, you listen to this."},{"startTime":1855.219,"endTime":1856.239,"body":"What a great opportunity."},{"startTime":1856.249,"endTime":1857.919,"body":"What a great opportunity to"},{"startTime":1856.249,"endTime":1857.919,"body":"move around the organization."},{"startTime":1857.979,"endTime":1859.709,"body":"Oh, you guys are not using scrum."},{"startTime":1859.859,"endTime":1863.359,"body":"Let me bring this piece of"},{"startTime":1859.859,"endTime":1863.359,"body":"scrum to the other teams."},{"startTime":1863.379,"endTime":1865.869,"body":"And now I've got now I'm way more"},{"startTime":1863.379,"endTime":1865.869,"body":"valuable to the organization."},{"startTime":1865.869,"endTime":1869.914,"body":"So when there's a 5 percent reduction in"},{"startTime":1865.869,"endTime":1869.914,"body":"head count because you know, we need to"},{"startTime":1870.064,"endTime":1873.474,"body":"Move some numbers around on a spreadsheet"},{"startTime":1870.064,"endTime":1873.474,"body":"or whatever, you know Maybe they think"},{"startTime":1873.474,"endTime":1877.994,"body":"twice about reducing the the only person"},{"startTime":1873.474,"endTime":1877.994,"body":"with advanced facilitation skills."},{"startTime":1878.054,"endTime":1882.774,"body":"Absolutely This is your chance to not"},{"startTime":1878.054,"endTime":1882.774,"body":"become a red cell on the spreadsheet."},{"startTime":1882.874,"endTime":1883.664,"body":"Absolutely"},{"startTime":1883.739,"endTime":1884.639,"body":"we like this podcast."},{"startTime":1884.669,"endTime":1885.719,"body":"I hope you like this podcast."},{"startTime":1886.049,"endTime":1889.109,"body":"Yeah, I learned something I"},{"startTime":1886.049,"endTime":1889.109,"body":"learned a great tactic just ignore"},{"startTime":1889.109,"endTime":1891.579,"body":"my Manager and do what I want."},{"startTime":1891.579,"endTime":1892.589,"body":"Yeah, just like it."},{"startTime":1892.589,"endTime":1895.479,"body":"Listen, let us know what you think"},{"startTime":1892.589,"endTime":1895.479,"body":"about this podcast subscribe and like"},{"startTime":1895.479,"endTime":1898.934,"body":"below And yeah, let us know other"},{"startTime":1895.479,"endTime":1898.934,"body":"topics that you want us to talk about."}]}