{"version":"1.0.0","segments":[{"startTime":0.074,"endTime":4.024,"body":"On a previous podcast, we talked about"},{"startTime":0.074,"endTime":4.024,"body":"a networking event that we were both at."},{"startTime":4.084,"endTime":6.295,"body":"And I brought up a question"},{"startTime":4.084,"endTime":6.295,"body":"from that networking event."},{"startTime":6.549,"endTime":9.929,"body":"The responses that the questions"},{"startTime":6.549,"endTime":9.929,"body":"sparked were really good."},{"startTime":10.039,"endTime":11.17,"body":"I'm not sure about the question."},{"startTime":11.17,"endTime":14.609,"body":"I'm going to ask you this question"},{"startTime":11.17,"endTime":14.609,"body":"and get your first take of your"},{"startTime":14.61,"endTime":20.099,"body":"response is, and the question was"},{"startTime":14.61,"endTime":20.099,"body":"what technical skills should a scrum"},{"startTime":20.099,"endTime":23.619,"body":"master have should slash could I'm"},{"startTime":20.099,"endTime":23.619,"body":"going to change the question slightly."},{"startTime":23.694,"endTime":28.094,"body":"because again, the tale as old"},{"startTime":23.694,"endTime":28.094,"body":"as time, the age old debate."},{"startTime":28.105,"endTime":30.514,"body":"That's not really much of a debate"},{"startTime":28.105,"endTime":30.514,"body":"because everyone tells you the same thing."},{"startTime":30.524,"endTime":30.855,"body":"Right."},{"startTime":30.954,"endTime":32.454,"body":"Well, scrum master doesn't"},{"startTime":30.954,"endTime":32.454,"body":"have to be technical."},{"startTime":32.604,"endTime":35.944,"body":"Yeah, but if they were, if"},{"startTime":32.604,"endTime":35.944,"body":"they did have those skills."},{"startTime":36.094,"endTime":37.074,"body":"Like, would it be a bad thing?"},{"startTime":37.224,"endTime":38.204,"body":"No, quite possibly."},{"startTime":38.204,"endTime":39.554,"body":"It would be, it would be a good thing."},{"startTime":39.554,"endTime":42.494,"body":"But I want to go back to the,"},{"startTime":39.554,"endTime":42.494,"body":"the, the question, right?"},{"startTime":42.534,"endTime":47.924,"body":"What technical skills should"},{"startTime":42.534,"endTime":47.924,"body":"slash could a Scrum Master have?"},{"startTime":47.934,"endTime":48.654,"body":"They're different questions."},{"startTime":48.754,"endTime":50.794,"body":"They're different questions,"},{"startTime":48.754,"endTime":50.794,"body":"but they're related, right?"},{"startTime":50.794,"endTime":52.804,"body":"So let's just tackle"},{"startTime":50.794,"endTime":52.804,"body":"them in that sequence."},{"startTime":52.914,"endTime":53.554,"body":"Should have."},{"startTime":53.634,"endTime":58.014,"body":"Should have means they need to bring that"},{"startTime":53.634,"endTime":58.014,"body":"to the table in order to be effective."},{"startTime":58.084,"endTime":61.634,"body":"And when it comes to technical"},{"startTime":58.084,"endTime":61.634,"body":"skills here, I'm going to lean on the"},{"startTime":61.634,"endTime":67.104,"body":"side of You know, technical meaning"},{"startTime":61.634,"endTime":67.104,"body":"related to software in some way as"},{"startTime":67.104,"endTime":71.514,"body":"opposed to technical, as in like"},{"startTime":67.104,"endTime":71.514,"body":"familiarity, the ability to use a"},{"startTime":71.534,"endTime":73.034,"body":"tool or something like that, right?"},{"startTime":73.334,"endTime":78.124,"body":"Scrum Masters don't have to have any"},{"startTime":73.334,"endTime":78.124,"body":"technical skills per se to be effective."},{"startTime":78.274,"endTime":82.034,"body":"So here I'm referring to"},{"startTime":78.274,"endTime":82.034,"body":"technical skills like familiarity"},{"startTime":82.034,"endTime":83.334,"body":"with development languages."},{"startTime":83.484,"endTime":87.514,"body":"You know, IDEs, platforms, any of that"},{"startTime":83.484,"endTime":87.514,"body":"they don't necessarily need to have that."},{"startTime":87.664,"endTime":91.584,"body":"What they do need to do, however, and"},{"startTime":87.664,"endTime":91.584,"body":"this is kind of going a little bit"},{"startTime":91.584,"endTime":95.694,"body":"away from the question, they need to"},{"startTime":91.584,"endTime":95.694,"body":"have the wherewithal and understanding"},{"startTime":95.694,"endTime":98.004,"body":"of what their solution space entails."},{"startTime":98.254,"endTime":99.774,"body":"That's different from technical skills."},{"startTime":99.924,"endTime":101.174,"body":"So I'll give you an example here."},{"startTime":101.324,"endTime":105.675,"body":"I'm working with a bunch of Scrum"},{"startTime":101.324,"endTime":105.675,"body":"Masters in the Cloud enablement,"},{"startTime":105.715,"endTime":107.125,"body":"cloud space, basically, right?"},{"startTime":107.415,"endTime":108.925,"body":"All all different clouds."},{"startTime":109.075,"endTime":111.165,"body":"The three, the three big cloud providers."},{"startTime":111.315,"endTime":114.044,"body":"Now, should a scrum master"},{"startTime":111.315,"endTime":114.044,"body":"be familiar with, say, AWS or"},{"startTime":114.045,"endTime":116.684,"body":"Azure cloud or Google cloud?"},{"startTime":116.834,"endTime":119.675,"body":"That's different than saying,"},{"startTime":116.834,"endTime":119.675,"body":"should they have skills in it?"},{"startTime":119.685,"endTime":124.675,"body":"They don't have to have skills as far"},{"startTime":119.685,"endTime":124.675,"body":"as have training in these in any way."},{"startTime":124.825,"endTime":129.555,"body":"But familiarity, meaning What are the"},{"startTime":124.825,"endTime":129.555,"body":"nuances, especially if you're dealing"},{"startTime":129.555,"endTime":133.535,"body":"with more than one things like metering,"},{"startTime":129.555,"endTime":133.535,"body":"how does how does the cloud provider"},{"startTime":133.555,"endTime":135.955,"body":"charge you to use their services?"},{"startTime":136.105,"endTime":140.795,"body":"These aren't technical skills necessarily,"},{"startTime":136.105,"endTime":140.795,"body":"but these are, these are awareness"},{"startTime":140.795,"endTime":145.365,"body":"skills that they need to either"},{"startTime":140.795,"endTime":145.365,"body":"have or develop to be better at what"},{"startTime":145.365,"endTime":146.765,"body":"they're doing, depending on the space."},{"startTime":146.775,"endTime":148.165,"body":"So it's contextual in a way."},{"startTime":148.315,"endTime":148.525,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":148.525,"endTime":150.595,"body":"Should they have, that's"},{"startTime":148.525,"endTime":150.595,"body":"what we just talked about."},{"startTime":150.685,"endTime":150.925,"body":"Well, could they?"},{"startTime":151.555,"endTime":152.725,"body":"That's a different question."},{"startTime":152.725,"endTime":154.795,"body":"AWS is a good example."},{"startTime":154.985,"endTime":159.445,"body":"Is a great example to start with"},{"startTime":154.985,"endTime":159.445,"body":"because AWS, if someone's, if someone"},{"startTime":159.455,"endTime":161.795,"body":"is saying, Hey, I need this new feature."},{"startTime":161.945,"endTime":165.575,"body":"Your developers may already be thinking"},{"startTime":161.945,"endTime":165.575,"body":"in terms of, well, we're going to"},{"startTime":165.575,"endTime":168.055,"body":"need all these new clusters, and we're"},{"startTime":165.575,"endTime":168.055,"body":"going to need to spin up all these"},{"startTime":168.055,"endTime":172.37,"body":"new systems, and we would prefer to"},{"startTime":168.055,"endTime":172.37,"body":"do serverless for all this stuff, that"},{"startTime":172.37,"endTime":176.4,"body":"way we don't need to pay and maintain"},{"startTime":172.37,"endTime":176.4,"body":"and watch log files and all this kind"},{"startTime":176.4,"endTime":179.919,"body":"of stuff for for this whole system"},{"startTime":176.4,"endTime":179.919,"body":"that you're talking about setting up."},{"startTime":180.079,"endTime":180.269,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":180.419,"endTime":182.939,"body":"Whereas sometimes if you want"},{"startTime":180.419,"endTime":182.939,"body":"all the bells and whistles,"},{"startTime":182.939,"endTime":184.669,"body":"maybe you can't, cannot go."},{"startTime":184.819,"endTime":185.679,"body":"Serverless, right?"},{"startTime":185.719,"endTime":190.199,"body":"AWS has a ton of functionality being"},{"startTime":185.719,"endTime":190.199,"body":"familiar with like what, what, what"},{"startTime":190.199,"endTime":194.089,"body":"like the, the, the queuing system and"},{"startTime":190.199,"endTime":194.089,"body":"the messaging system and how AWS does"},{"startTime":194.139,"endTime":198.149,"body":"it's a cloud databases and how AWS"},{"startTime":194.139,"endTime":198.149,"body":"does it's servers or whatever they call"},{"startTime":198.169,"endTime":201.199,"body":"instances or whatever they, whatever"},{"startTime":198.169,"endTime":201.199,"body":"they call an AWS, like being familiar"},{"startTime":201.199,"endTime":203.119,"body":"with how AWS does all that stuff."},{"startTime":203.269,"endTime":206.819,"body":"I, I think of those as, I"},{"startTime":203.269,"endTime":206.819,"body":"think of all that as technical."},{"startTime":206.819,"endTime":207.129,"body":"Cool."},{"startTime":207.469,"endTime":207.979,"body":"It's technical knowledge."},{"startTime":208.129,"endTime":208.309,"body":"Yes."},{"startTime":208.489,"endTime":209.399,"body":"And thereby skill."},{"startTime":209.4,"endTime":210.199,"body":"I think of it as technical."},{"startTime":210.379,"endTime":213.509,"body":"Like, I understand the question"},{"startTime":210.379,"endTime":213.509,"body":"didn't ask technical knowledge."},{"startTime":213.509,"endTime":214.439,"body":"They didn't make a distinction."},{"startTime":214.469,"endTime":214.699,"body":"Right."},{"startTime":214.709,"endTime":218.459,"body":"Maybe it's a, maybe that's on"},{"startTime":214.709,"endTime":218.459,"body":"the, the, the asker of the, the,"},{"startTime":218.509,"endTime":220.389,"body":"the requester of the question."},{"startTime":220.499,"endTime":221.409,"body":"The asker of the question."},{"startTime":221.409,"endTime":222.159,"body":"The originator."},{"startTime":222.159,"endTime":222.579,"body":"The originator."},{"startTime":222.669,"endTime":222.929,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":223.119,"endTime":223.649,"body":"I know what you mean."},{"startTime":223.649,"endTime":227.399,"body":"Maybe that's on them, but I, I, I,"},{"startTime":223.649,"endTime":227.399,"body":"like the spirit of what they asked is"},{"startTime":227.549,"endTime":231.419,"body":"well, how can I have somebody who's"},{"startTime":227.549,"endTime":231.419,"body":"supposed to be helping the development"},{"startTime":231.419,"endTime":232.579,"body":"team get better at development?"},{"startTime":232.729,"endTime":233.859,"body":"And they don't know."},{"startTime":234.009,"endTime":238.099,"body":"Anything about these this environment"},{"startTime":234.009,"endTime":238.099,"body":"in which development operates You know,"},{"startTime":238.099,"endTime":242.349,"body":"they they really should maybe you don't"},{"startTime":238.099,"endTime":242.349,"body":"have to be like aws certified Maybe they"},{"startTime":242.349,"endTime":246.819,"body":"don't need to take the certification and"},{"startTime":242.349,"endTime":246.819,"body":"pass it Although Like I like earlier in"},{"startTime":246.819,"endTime":251.269,"body":"my career I I like I could have taken and"},{"startTime":246.819,"endTime":251.269,"body":"passed the vmware certs and the microsoft"},{"startTime":251.269,"endTime":254.049,"body":"certs Where at the very beginning"},{"startTime":251.269,"endTime":254.049,"body":"of my career the microsoft certs?"},{"startTime":254.379,"endTime":257.609,"body":"Were the envogue MCSE and"},{"startTime":254.379,"endTime":257.609,"body":"all that kind of stuff."},{"startTime":257.609,"endTime":260.739,"body":"Yeah, and it was like, you were not,"},{"startTime":257.609,"endTime":260.739,"body":"nobody in software development really"},{"startTime":260.739,"endTime":262.959,"body":"cared if you had those certs or not."},{"startTime":263.109,"endTime":268.229,"body":"However, like the company did, the"},{"startTime":263.109,"endTime":268.229,"body":"company would pay for you to further"},{"startTime":268.229,"endTime":269.299,"body":"your knowledge and take those things."},{"startTime":269.479,"endTime":272.039,"body":"So I see the scrum master working"},{"startTime":269.479,"endTime":272.039,"body":"with the development team."},{"startTime":272.189,"endTime":276.179,"body":"If they want to advance and they"},{"startTime":272.189,"endTime":276.179,"body":"want to prove to the company that"},{"startTime":276.199,"endTime":277.739,"body":"like they're very serious about this."},{"startTime":277.779,"endTime":279.409,"body":"I can't see a reason to not."},{"startTime":279.559,"endTime":280.229,"body":"learn these things."},{"startTime":280.239,"endTime":280.969,"body":"That's where I'm starting."},{"startTime":280.989,"endTime":281.819,"body":"That's what I'm starting with."},{"startTime":282.019,"endTime":284.999,"body":"Given the opportunity and on the"},{"startTime":282.019,"endTime":284.999,"body":"company's dime, would there be a reason"},{"startTime":284.999,"endTime":288.089,"body":"to specifically not learn these skills?"},{"startTime":288.119,"endTime":288.839,"body":"Absolutely not."},{"startTime":288.839,"endTime":291.819,"body":"I think if that was the case,"},{"startTime":288.839,"endTime":291.819,"body":"definitely they should take the"},{"startTime":291.819,"endTime":293.569,"body":"opportunity to learn, right?"},{"startTime":293.719,"endTime":297.719,"body":"Coming in, though, is that a barrier"},{"startTime":293.719,"endTime":297.719,"body":"to entry to becoming a scrum master"},{"startTime":297.719,"endTime":299.569,"body":"on the team or program like that?"},{"startTime":299.719,"endTime":300.449,"body":"Probably not."},{"startTime":300.449,"endTime":304.359,"body":"As long as they have this"},{"startTime":300.449,"endTime":304.359,"body":"attitude of Learning, right?"},{"startTime":304.579,"endTime":306.009,"body":"So we talked about AWS."},{"startTime":306.009,"endTime":307.119,"body":"I think it is a good example."},{"startTime":307.129,"endTime":311.274,"body":"They don't have to know necessarily"},{"startTime":307.129,"endTime":311.274,"body":"how Amazon prices their infrastructures"},{"startTime":311.614,"endTime":313.364,"body":"or whatever else their services."},{"startTime":313.404,"endTime":316.594,"body":"Basically, they don't have to know"},{"startTime":313.404,"endTime":316.594,"body":"that what they have to know is that"},{"startTime":316.594,"endTime":318.174,"body":"they that that is a real thing."},{"startTime":318.514,"endTime":320.184,"body":"Every time you want something else."},{"startTime":320.454,"endTime":321.234,"body":"You pay for it."},{"startTime":321.514,"endTime":324.584,"body":"Learn over time how what the pricing"},{"startTime":321.514,"endTime":324.584,"body":"models are because they're different."},{"startTime":324.824,"endTime":326.744,"body":"Azure has a different"},{"startTime":324.824,"endTime":326.744,"body":"pricing model, right?"},{"startTime":327.064,"endTime":328.234,"body":"I'm sure Google does, too."},{"startTime":328.384,"endTime":334.244,"body":"So, what I'm saying is, these technical"},{"startTime":328.384,"endTime":334.244,"body":"skills we're speaking of, for me,"},{"startTime":334.244,"endTime":336.404,"body":"they talk about hard skills, right?"},{"startTime":336.564,"endTime":340.494,"body":"Skills like, for example, knowledge in"},{"startTime":336.564,"endTime":340.494,"body":"a program, a programming language, to be"},{"startTime":340.494,"endTime":344.764,"body":"able to at least look at that, or be able"},{"startTime":340.494,"endTime":344.764,"body":"to read JSON files and make sense of it."},{"startTime":344.914,"endTime":347.534,"body":"It's not hard, but do"},{"startTime":344.914,"endTime":347.534,"body":"they need it coming in?"},{"startTime":347.544,"endTime":347.884,"body":"No."},{"startTime":348.034,"endTime":352.824,"body":"Now, if their team is delivering a"},{"startTime":348.034,"endTime":352.824,"body":"lot of services or whatever, right?"},{"startTime":352.914,"endTime":356.124,"body":"If they're looking at JSON all the"},{"startTime":352.914,"endTime":356.124,"body":"time, it behooves the Scrum Master"},{"startTime":356.124,"endTime":359.664,"body":"to at least look at it to see what"},{"startTime":356.124,"endTime":359.664,"body":"the team is talking about and learn."},{"startTime":359.814,"endTime":362.034,"body":"And that little learning"},{"startTime":359.814,"endTime":362.034,"body":"doesn't have to be formal."},{"startTime":362.304,"endTime":364.534,"body":"That can be sitting with"},{"startTime":362.304,"endTime":364.534,"body":"a tech lead or whatever."},{"startTime":364.534,"endTime":365.414,"body":"Just observing."},{"startTime":365.504,"endTime":366.204,"body":"Learn by observation."},{"startTime":366.864,"endTime":369.594,"body":"You're not called upon to design."},{"startTime":369.744,"endTime":370.794,"body":"A payload, right?"},{"startTime":370.804,"endTime":371.484,"body":"You're not."},{"startTime":371.774,"endTime":374.384,"body":"But at least you can"},{"startTime":371.774,"endTime":374.384,"body":"see what that is, right?"},{"startTime":374.384,"endTime":378.054,"body":"So when the team is pointing looking"},{"startTime":374.384,"endTime":378.054,"body":"at stuff, you become familiar with it."},{"startTime":378.204,"endTime":380.914,"body":"I think we need to talk about a"},{"startTime":378.204,"endTime":380.914,"body":"different word, not skill so much"},{"startTime":380.914,"endTime":382.494,"body":"as I think you nailed it, knowledge."},{"startTime":382.754,"endTime":385.804,"body":"So build up knowledge"},{"startTime":382.754,"endTime":385.804,"body":"around your space, right?"},{"startTime":385.944,"endTime":387.824,"body":"And again, you don't have"},{"startTime":385.944,"endTime":387.824,"body":"to have it coming in."},{"startTime":387.824,"endTime":391.204,"body":"What you do have to have is sound"},{"startTime":387.824,"endTime":391.204,"body":"principles of agile ways of working,"},{"startTime":391.534,"endTime":393.234,"body":"whether it's scrum or Kanban."},{"startTime":393.234,"endTime":395.004,"body":"Those aren't technical at all."},{"startTime":395.154,"endTime":399.714,"body":"But coming in, if you're in the We started"},{"startTime":395.154,"endTime":399.714,"body":"with the example of the cloud technology."},{"startTime":399.714,"endTime":402.954,"body":"If you're in that environment, then by"},{"startTime":399.714,"endTime":402.954,"body":"all means, learn something about it."},{"startTime":403.034,"endTime":404.744,"body":"Now, there's a couple of"},{"startTime":403.034,"endTime":404.744,"body":"ways you can go with that."},{"startTime":404.894,"endTime":409.134,"body":"Is there anything that is available"},{"startTime":404.894,"endTime":409.134,"body":"to you in the form of documentation"},{"startTime":409.194,"endTime":410.474,"body":"about what your product is?"},{"startTime":410.784,"endTime":411.464,"body":"Start there."},{"startTime":411.614,"endTime":414.784,"body":"It won't be highly technical"},{"startTime":411.614,"endTime":414.784,"body":"because likely it was created"},{"startTime":414.784,"endTime":415.624,"body":"for the eyes of the customer."},{"startTime":415.774,"endTime":418.094,"body":"That's great because you"},{"startTime":415.774,"endTime":418.094,"body":"know, you see what they see."},{"startTime":418.184,"endTime":420.744,"body":"So that's a good way to immerse"},{"startTime":418.184,"endTime":420.744,"body":"yourself into the space."},{"startTime":420.894,"endTime":425.044,"body":"But then you can move from there to"},{"startTime":420.894,"endTime":425.044,"body":"taking these small free mini courses"},{"startTime":425.044,"endTime":428.794,"body":"that are out there in in the different"},{"startTime":425.044,"endTime":428.794,"body":"technologies You can learn about those"},{"startTime":428.964,"endTime":433.014,"body":"right and it doesn't cost you anything"},{"startTime":428.964,"endTime":433.014,"body":"The only thing that it costs you is"},{"startTime":433.164,"endTime":437.534,"body":"you gotta roll up your sleeves and and"},{"startTime":433.164,"endTime":437.534,"body":"be willing to dive in so it will help"},{"startTime":437.544,"endTime":439.414,"body":"Yes, but is it absolutely necessary?"},{"startTime":439.444,"endTime":440.654,"body":"I don't believe so"},{"startTime":440.804,"endTime":442.314,"body":"there could be exceptions to this."},{"startTime":442.464,"endTime":445.784,"body":"Like somebody could be working"},{"startTime":442.464,"endTime":445.784,"body":"in the manufacturing space and"},{"startTime":445.934,"endTime":447.254,"body":"there's some nuances there."},{"startTime":447.404,"endTime":448.644,"body":"You're creating."},{"startTime":448.719,"endTime":450.429,"body":"Machines or circuit boards or whatever."},{"startTime":450.579,"endTime":452.739,"body":"So it's hard products, not software."},{"startTime":453.079,"endTime":458.969,"body":"And with that comes other things like, for"},{"startTime":453.079,"endTime":458.969,"body":"example, quality standards or regulatory"},{"startTime":458.969,"endTime":460.949,"body":"standards that have to be met, right?"},{"startTime":461.029,"endTime":461.619,"body":"Things like that."},{"startTime":461.619,"endTime":463.039,"body":"Stringent testing standards."},{"startTime":463.379,"endTime":464.269,"body":"Learn about those."},{"startTime":464.299,"endTime":466.639,"body":"Those are, I don't call"},{"startTime":464.299,"endTime":466.639,"body":"those technical skills."},{"startTime":466.659,"endTime":469.249,"body":"Again, it's knowledge about your Space."},{"startTime":469.399,"endTime":470.779,"body":"The space that you're operating in?"},{"startTime":470.864,"endTime":475.814,"body":"If I were to wheel back and try to"},{"startTime":470.864,"endTime":475.814,"body":"and try to peel the technical away"},{"startTime":475.814,"endTime":477.674,"body":"and say what skills should they have?"},{"startTime":477.884,"endTime":480.224,"body":"I mean, obviously they should"},{"startTime":477.884,"endTime":480.224,"body":"have advanced communication skill."},{"startTime":480.299,"endTime":482.789,"body":"They should, they should have"},{"startTime":480.299,"endTime":482.789,"body":"some facilitation skill, right?"},{"startTime":482.809,"endTime":485.039,"body":"Or, or at least be, be"},{"startTime":482.809,"endTime":485.039,"body":"actively working on it."},{"startTime":485.114,"endTime":490.194,"body":"the concern that I'm still not sold"},{"startTime":485.114,"endTime":490.194,"body":"on, that I've not overcome yet in the"},{"startTime":490.194,"endTime":495.764,"body":"conversation, is what I say when I"},{"startTime":490.194,"endTime":495.764,"body":"get a development manager who controls"},{"startTime":495.764,"endTime":499.354,"body":"a budget for hiring, telling me I'm"},{"startTime":495.764,"endTime":499.354,"body":"not going to replace a scrum master,"},{"startTime":499.354,"endTime":502.004,"body":"I'm not going to hire a scrum master"},{"startTime":499.354,"endTime":502.004,"body":"because if all they can do is team"},{"startTime":502.004,"endTime":505.824,"body":"communication and facilitation that's"},{"startTime":502.004,"endTime":505.824,"body":"not a full time job, that's a role."},{"startTime":505.894,"endTime":507.474,"body":"That's what's going to"},{"startTime":505.894,"endTime":507.474,"body":"be in their head, right?"},{"startTime":507.474,"endTime":508.464,"body":"They're going to have a developer do that."},{"startTime":508.614,"endTime":509.894,"body":"We know that's a little bit short sighted."},{"startTime":509.914,"endTime":514.474,"body":"However, They're going to say, if I do"},{"startTime":509.914,"endTime":514.474,"body":"hire a scrum master, I, I want them to be"},{"startTime":514.474,"endTime":517.034,"body":"able to jump in and help out occasionally."},{"startTime":517.184,"endTime":518.174,"body":"So I want them to have."},{"startTime":518.324,"endTime":522.344,"body":"A skill some type of skill or they"},{"startTime":518.324,"endTime":522.344,"body":"want them to be able to write basic"},{"startTime":522.344,"endTime":526.154,"body":"SQL statements, or I want them to"},{"startTime":522.344,"endTime":526.154,"body":"be able to do some testing or maybe"},{"startTime":526.154,"endTime":529.904,"body":"they maybe with their communication"},{"startTime":526.154,"endTime":529.904,"body":"and facilitation skills, they can do"},{"startTime":530.014,"endTime":533.324,"body":"some uat testing, whereas the team"},{"startTime":530.014,"endTime":533.324,"body":"normally doesn't get involved in that."},{"startTime":533.534,"endTime":538.634,"body":"So there's I can, I can see, I can"},{"startTime":533.534,"endTime":538.634,"body":"completely empathize with the development"},{"startTime":538.644,"endTime":543.284,"body":"manager or a a busy VP of development"},{"startTime":538.644,"endTime":543.284,"body":"or something like that, right?"},{"startTime":543.544,"endTime":546.054,"body":"Who says, I can't justify a budget"},{"startTime":543.544,"endTime":546.054,"body":"for this because they don't,"},{"startTime":546.144,"endTime":547.534,"body":"they don't completely understand."},{"startTime":547.684,"endTime":551.314,"body":"So they want a little bonus thrown"},{"startTime":547.684,"endTime":551.314,"body":"in to make them feel better."},{"startTime":551.464,"endTime":555.984,"body":"You know, maybe, maybe they've even taken"},{"startTime":551.464,"endTime":555.984,"body":"the CSM or maybe maybe, maybe they get it."},{"startTime":556.134,"endTime":558.894,"body":"But they still can't justify it"},{"startTime":556.134,"endTime":558.894,"body":"just because of the like when you"},{"startTime":558.894,"endTime":562.339,"body":"get to executive level or whatever"},{"startTime":558.894,"endTime":562.339,"body":"there's politics involved they can't"},{"startTime":562.339,"endTime":564.709,"body":"be seen looking at hiring what are"},{"startTime":562.339,"endTime":564.709,"body":"you spending that much money for?"},{"startTime":564.709,"endTime":566.079,"body":"You could get a developer for that, right?"},{"startTime":566.089,"endTime":567.489,"body":"Yeah, I agree with that."},{"startTime":567.489,"endTime":570.639,"body":"So I think if you're taking that"},{"startTime":567.489,"endTime":570.639,"body":"approach, you have to figure out"},{"startTime":570.669,"endTime":573.219,"body":"what are you going to ask your"},{"startTime":570.669,"endTime":573.219,"body":"scrum master to bring to the table."},{"startTime":573.539,"endTime":575.899,"body":"I can tell you, you"},{"startTime":573.539,"endTime":575.899,"body":"mentioned writing sequel."},{"startTime":576.009,"endTime":577.719,"body":"That's one of the things"},{"startTime":576.009,"endTime":577.719,"body":"that I personally did."},{"startTime":577.909,"endTime":578.779,"body":"I learned sequel."},{"startTime":578.929,"endTime":581.589,"body":"It really helped me,"},{"startTime":578.929,"endTime":581.589,"body":"but it wasn't one day."},{"startTime":581.589,"endTime":583.989,"body":"I woke up and said to"},{"startTime":581.589,"endTime":583.989,"body":"myself, I think learn SQL."},{"startTime":584.189,"endTime":588.969,"body":"No, what happened is I found"},{"startTime":584.189,"endTime":588.969,"body":"these leaders would walk by."},{"startTime":588.969,"endTime":592.559,"body":"We were in person before they would walk"},{"startTime":588.969,"endTime":592.559,"body":"by and tap a developer on the shoulder"},{"startTime":592.559,"endTime":596.099,"body":"and say, can you get me the top top"},{"startTime":592.559,"endTime":596.099,"body":"five customers in the last quarter?"},{"startTime":596.429,"endTime":597.679,"body":"And the developers like, Oh, sure."},{"startTime":597.679,"endTime":598.419,"body":"I know how to do that."},{"startTime":598.469,"endTime":599.379,"body":"And they go straight away."},{"startTime":599.529,"endTime":600.789,"body":"Hands on keyboard, boom, boom, boom."},{"startTime":600.819,"endTime":603.279,"body":"Before you know it, the"},{"startTime":600.819,"endTime":603.279,"body":"conversation keeps spiraling now."},{"startTime":603.469,"endTime":605.629,"body":"Oh off those, can you tell me"},{"startTime":603.469,"endTime":605.629,"body":"what the biggest spend was?"},{"startTime":605.629,"endTime":606.439,"body":"Boom, boom, boom, right?"},{"startTime":606.659,"endTime":608.419,"body":"So the developers take an off track."},{"startTime":608.519,"endTime":611.059,"body":"And as a Scrum Master, I'm"},{"startTime":608.519,"endTime":611.059,"body":"trying to protect the team from"},{"startTime":611.059,"endTime":613.049,"body":"these outside interruptions."},{"startTime":613.199,"endTime":617.979,"body":"So I took the stakeholder in question"},{"startTime":613.199,"endTime":617.979,"body":"away and said, What is, can I help you?"},{"startTime":618.139,"endTime":618.399,"body":"Right?"},{"startTime":618.399,"endTime":620.219,"body":"And they said, I need to know this."},{"startTime":620.339,"endTime":621.539,"body":"Let me get back to you."},{"startTime":621.689,"endTime":624.349,"body":"And that's when I started thinking,"},{"startTime":621.689,"endTime":624.349,"body":"I have access to the database,"},{"startTime":624.689,"endTime":626.019,"body":"Oracle, I have access to the..."},{"startTime":626.294,"endTime":630.924,"body":"The Oracle prompt, if you will . And"},{"startTime":626.294,"endTime":630.924,"body":"so I started learning that by myself."},{"startTime":631.164,"endTime":634.194,"body":"I learned there's only a dozen SQL"},{"startTime":631.164,"endTime":634.194,"body":"statements at the end of the day."},{"startTime":634.194,"endTime":635.824,"body":"I'm not trivializing that."},{"startTime":636.054,"endTime":637.424,"body":"It's a skill set for sure."},{"startTime":637.684,"endTime":640.964,"body":"You need to be able to do what you"},{"startTime":637.684,"endTime":640.964,"body":"need to be able to do with regard"},{"startTime":640.964,"endTime":642.644,"body":"to writing stored procedures, etc."},{"startTime":642.644,"endTime":643.954,"body":"And it's like spreadsheets."},{"startTime":643.964,"endTime":647.354,"body":"You can write it elegantly or"},{"startTime":643.964,"endTime":647.354,"body":"clumsily as long as it works."},{"startTime":647.664,"endTime":649.464,"body":"I fall in the former category."},{"startTime":649.504,"endTime":650.934,"body":"But sequel, I write it clumsily."},{"startTime":650.974,"endTime":651.854,"body":"It works, right?"},{"startTime":651.854,"endTime":655.704,"body":"I knew enough, I learned enough"},{"startTime":651.854,"endTime":655.704,"body":"to query and dump data into temp"},{"startTime":655.704,"endTime":657.384,"body":"tables and mess around with them."},{"startTime":657.654,"endTime":658.434,"body":"I didn't crash the database."},{"startTime":658.484,"endTime":660.404,"body":"I never did update."},{"startTime":660.554,"endTime":662.604,"body":"Okay, always always selects."},{"startTime":662.764,"endTime":668.084,"body":"But in order to get back to this"},{"startTime":662.764,"endTime":668.084,"body":"stakeholder with data, I was"},{"startTime":668.084,"endTime":671.844,"body":"protecting the the development team"},{"startTime":668.084,"endTime":671.844,"body":"members from being interrupted."},{"startTime":671.854,"endTime":673.124,"body":"So I saw that as a need."},{"startTime":673.144,"endTime":677.024,"body":"And I figured that's what I need to"},{"startTime":673.144,"endTime":677.024,"body":"do to meet the need is learn this."},{"startTime":677.134,"endTime":678.014,"body":"You call it skill."},{"startTime":678.164,"endTime":678.504,"body":"Right?"},{"startTime":678.754,"endTime":680.754,"body":"I think that goes a long way."},{"startTime":680.904,"endTime":682.564,"body":"If you're doing that,"},{"startTime":680.904,"endTime":682.564,"body":"this could be simple."},{"startTime":682.614,"endTime":684.074,"body":"It doesn't have to be my example."},{"startTime":684.084,"endTime":686.719,"body":"It could be give me all the"},{"startTime":684.084,"endTime":686.719,"body":"stories that we completed last"},{"startTime":686.719,"endTime":688.469,"body":"two sprints of a scrum master."},{"startTime":688.809,"endTime":691.949,"body":"So the skills here are simply"},{"startTime":688.809,"endTime":691.949,"body":"doing queries in your head."},{"startTime":692.249,"endTime":694.749,"body":"LM tool, whatever you're using,"},{"startTime":692.249,"endTime":694.749,"body":"if you know how to do that,"},{"startTime":695.079,"endTime":699.909,"body":"another example that actually happened to"},{"startTime":695.079,"endTime":699.909,"body":"me today a team that is a supporting team,"},{"startTime":700.149,"endTime":704.209,"body":"enablement team they basically they want"},{"startTime":700.149,"endTime":704.209,"body":"to know their work is tracked in their LM"},{"startTime":704.219,"endTime":705.809,"body":"tool, not in the product planning tool."},{"startTime":706.019,"endTime":709.609,"body":"They want to know how they're doing"},{"startTime":706.019,"endTime":709.609,"body":"without pushing all their work"},{"startTime":709.609,"endTime":711.109,"body":"into the product planning tool."},{"startTime":711.259,"endTime":715.049,"body":"So in the LM tool itself, you"},{"startTime":711.259,"endTime":715.049,"body":"see all your epics and features"},{"startTime":715.049,"endTime":716.649,"body":"and stories nested in that way."},{"startTime":716.799,"endTime":719.559,"body":"And you can see the progress"},{"startTime":716.799,"endTime":719.559,"body":"under let's say user stories."},{"startTime":719.569,"endTime":722.419,"body":"The lowest level is task, but"},{"startTime":719.569,"endTime":722.419,"body":"they don't really care about that."},{"startTime":722.569,"endTime":723.449,"body":"You can see that."},{"startTime":723.509,"endTime":728.244,"body":"So you could put a calculation"},{"startTime":723.509,"endTime":728.244,"body":"column in that calculates progress"},{"startTime":728.304,"endTime":732.004,"body":"on a feature based on its Children"},{"startTime":728.304,"endTime":732.004,"body":"stories that are complete."},{"startTime":732.154,"endTime":732.954,"body":"It's it's come."},{"startTime":732.954,"endTime":734.874,"body":"Master needs to learn to do those things."},{"startTime":734.884,"endTime":737.504,"body":"Those are the skills that"},{"startTime":734.884,"endTime":737.504,"body":"are helpful in this case."},{"startTime":737.654,"endTime":743.554,"body":"The other side of it I want to take here"},{"startTime":737.654,"endTime":743.554,"body":"is at least be familiar with the suite of"},{"startTime":743.674,"endTime":746.024,"body":"different tools that your teams are using."},{"startTime":746.174,"endTime":746.434,"body":"Right?"},{"startTime":746.504,"endTime":748.694,"body":"Understand what they're using for an IDE."},{"startTime":748.954,"endTime":753.054,"body":"Understand what your test teams are"},{"startTime":748.954,"endTime":753.054,"body":"using for automation, things like that."},{"startTime":753.284,"endTime":754.854,"body":"What are your DevOps teams using?"},{"startTime":754.884,"endTime":755.754,"body":"Understand that."},{"startTime":755.954,"endTime":757.024,"body":"Are you using GitHub?"},{"startTime":757.064,"endTime":757.294,"body":"Right?"},{"startTime":757.444,"endTime":758.864,"body":"Understand these meetings."},{"startTime":758.864,"endTime":759.674,"body":"Like what is get out?"},{"startTime":759.684,"endTime":760.394,"body":"That's interesting."},{"startTime":760.504,"endTime":764.764,"body":"You wouldn't shuffle that into technical"},{"startTime":760.504,"endTime":764.764,"body":"knowledge slash skills because you're"},{"startTime":764.764,"endTime":766.464,"body":"not standing up GitHub or anything."},{"startTime":766.614,"endTime":767.604,"body":"You say, well, here's how you use it."},{"startTime":767.824,"endTime":768.554,"body":"Maybe you like."},{"startTime":768.554,"endTime":773.784,"body":"I remember distinctly working at one"},{"startTime":768.554,"endTime":773.784,"body":"place That I don't, I don't call out"},{"startTime":773.784,"endTime":778.194,"body":"this place, but I remember one place"},{"startTime":773.784,"endTime":778.194,"body":"that I worked at that I went out of my"},{"startTime":778.194,"endTime":782.764,"body":"way as no, I can't, I can't say it this"},{"startTime":778.194,"endTime":782.764,"body":"way, but anyway, I remember one place"},{"startTime":782.764,"endTime":785.664,"body":"that the first thing that developers"},{"startTime":782.764,"endTime":785.664,"body":"did when they got there is they had to"},{"startTime":785.664,"endTime":790.864,"body":"set up their own laptop and it like,"},{"startTime":785.664,"endTime":790.864,"body":"it's such an excruciating experience."},{"startTime":791.014,"endTime":793.624,"body":"To have to set up your own laptop"},{"startTime":791.014,"endTime":793.624,"body":"when you don't know where, like"},{"startTime":793.624,"endTime":795.424,"body":"you don't have any credentials."},{"startTime":795.634,"endTime":799.534,"body":"Usually the credentials in are in"},{"startTime":795.634,"endTime":799.534,"body":"some key store somewhere or some"},{"startTime":799.534,"endTime":802.024,"body":"some, some secret keeper vault."},{"startTime":802.174,"endTime":802.714,"body":"Yeah, somewhere."},{"startTime":802.864,"endTime":805.624,"body":"And like, so you don't even know"},{"startTime":802.864,"endTime":805.624,"body":"the system, the IP addresses."},{"startTime":805.624,"endTime":807.514,"body":"Some, some things are named by IP address."},{"startTime":807.519,"endTime":809.014,"body":"Some things are named by name."},{"startTime":809.284,"endTime":812.084,"body":"Some things are in different network"},{"startTime":809.284,"endTime":812.084,"body":"segments that you have to VPN"},{"startTime":812.084,"endTime":813.734,"body":"into Sure to get onto or whatever."},{"startTime":813.739,"endTime":814.484,"body":"You don't know the systems."},{"startTime":814.609,"endTime":819.489,"body":"The first thing developers had to do was"},{"startTime":814.609,"endTime":819.489,"body":"like run the gauntlet of setting up their"},{"startTime":819.489,"endTime":821.619,"body":"own laptop with access to all the..."},{"startTime":821.919,"endTime":826.579,"body":"You know, all the repos and then whatever"},{"startTime":821.919,"endTime":826.579,"body":"Jenkins platforms that, that, that they"},{"startTime":826.579,"endTime":830.649,"body":"need to hook into for whatever repo it"},{"startTime":826.579,"endTime":830.649,"body":"was, is and then, and then to get access"},{"startTime":830.649,"endTime":834.199,"body":"to in the instance where they had access"},{"startTime":830.649,"endTime":834.199,"body":"to the different environments to get"},{"startTime":834.199,"endTime":836.919,"body":"access to actually go into the different"},{"startTime":834.199,"endTime":836.919,"body":"environments to figure out what networks,"},{"startTime":837.189,"endTime":840.639,"body":"network subnets they were on or whatever,"},{"startTime":837.189,"endTime":840.639,"body":"like there was no central checklist"},{"startTime":840.649,"endTime":842.409,"body":"to walk a new person through all this."},{"startTime":842.409,"endTime":845.929,"body":"So every new person that would start"},{"startTime":842.409,"endTime":845.929,"body":"would add to the master checklist."},{"startTime":846.079,"endTime":849.149,"body":"To help the next new person along"},{"startTime":846.079,"endTime":849.149,"body":"the way, but the checklist was never"},{"startTime":849.224,"endTime":851.294,"body":"and then it was never bulletproof."},{"startTime":851.294,"endTime":852.184,"body":"It was never 100%."},{"startTime":852.464,"endTime":855.399,"body":"I would think this is, this is"},{"startTime":852.464,"endTime":855.399,"body":"again it's a painful process."},{"startTime":855.549,"endTime":857.339,"body":"If you're not a developer, you're"},{"startTime":855.549,"endTime":857.339,"body":"never going to go through that"},{"startTime":857.339,"endTime":860.949,"body":"process because again, they're like,"},{"startTime":857.339,"endTime":860.949,"body":"well, these are technical tools."},{"startTime":861.099,"endTime":863.379,"body":"That's why, that's why I asked"},{"startTime":861.099,"endTime":863.379,"body":"that question is well, do you"},{"startTime":863.379,"endTime":865.759,"body":"consider get or Jenkins or whatever?"},{"startTime":865.759,"endTime":866.189,"body":"You know what I mean?"},{"startTime":866.359,"endTime":868.899,"body":"Do you consider them technical tools"},{"startTime":866.359,"endTime":868.899,"body":"because the development department does."},{"startTime":868.899,"endTime":868.949,"body":"Yes."},{"startTime":869.099,"endTime":871.789,"body":"And you would never be asked"},{"startTime":869.099,"endTime":871.789,"body":"to exercise any of this."},{"startTime":871.864,"endTime":875.644,"body":"it's funny, because as a product owner,"},{"startTime":871.864,"endTime":875.644,"body":"when I onboard as a product owner,"},{"startTime":875.794,"endTime":878.154,"body":"I will generally ask for SQL access."},{"startTime":878.304,"endTime":881.444,"body":"I'll say, you have a SQL server,"},{"startTime":878.304,"endTime":881.444,"body":"generate me a read only key and give"},{"startTime":881.444,"endTime":884.839,"body":"it to me, so I can go do read only"},{"startTime":881.444,"endTime":884.839,"body":"queries to the database and they"},{"startTime":884.839,"endTime":887.429,"body":"look at me like I'm funny because"},{"startTime":884.839,"endTime":887.429,"body":"they don't know that I was, I know,"},{"startTime":887.579,"endTime":889.859,"body":"but I built data warehouses"},{"startTime":887.579,"endTime":889.859,"body":"and stuff like that before."},{"startTime":889.919,"endTime":890.659,"body":"Right, exactly."},{"startTime":890.809,"endTime":893.439,"body":"So you have those skills that you"},{"startTime":890.809,"endTime":893.439,"body":"already had from your past, right?"},{"startTime":893.514,"endTime":895.794,"body":"Oh boy, we should have, we should"},{"startTime":893.514,"endTime":895.794,"body":"have expanded this question into"},{"startTime":895.794,"endTime":897.884,"body":"product management because I"},{"startTime":895.794,"endTime":897.884,"body":"could definitely talk for an hour."},{"startTime":898.034,"endTime":902.784,"body":"On product management, technical skills,"},{"startTime":898.034,"endTime":902.784,"body":"because for me, if your company keeps"},{"startTime":902.784,"endTime":905.994,"body":"a lot of information in a central"},{"startTime":902.784,"endTime":905.994,"body":"database somewhere, like relational"},{"startTime":906.004,"endTime":907.714,"body":"database query with sequel, right?"},{"startTime":907.974,"endTime":910.114,"body":"Not like a Mongo or whatever."},{"startTime":910.264,"endTime":911.274,"body":"Right, not a document."},{"startTime":911.364,"endTime":912.444,"body":"Not a NoSQL database."},{"startTime":912.594,"endTime":917.154,"body":"If you keep your data in a central"},{"startTime":912.594,"endTime":917.154,"body":"database somewhere the amount of time it"},{"startTime":917.154,"endTime":920.764,"body":"will take me to bother the development"},{"startTime":917.154,"endTime":920.764,"body":"team to do what you said earlier where"},{"startTime":920.764,"endTime":923.144,"body":"I was like, I just want to ask for"},{"startTime":920.764,"endTime":923.144,"body":"this one thing, and then when I get"},{"startTime":923.144,"endTime":925.544,"body":"the results, I want to think about"},{"startTime":923.144,"endTime":925.544,"body":"this other thing, and then see how"},{"startTime":925.544,"endTime":926.784,"body":"many of this, and see how many of that."},{"startTime":926.994,"endTime":928.674,"body":"Like, go chasing all around like that."},{"startTime":928.824,"endTime":929.774,"body":"I'll write the query."},{"startTime":929.924,"endTime":933.764,"body":"And it'll be a good exploration task"},{"startTime":929.924,"endTime":933.764,"body":"for me to learn the back end database."},{"startTime":933.914,"endTime":934.114,"body":"Yep."},{"startTime":934.124,"endTime":937.244,"body":"To see the limitations, to see what"},{"startTime":934.124,"endTime":937.244,"body":"tables are slow, see where they've"},{"startTime":937.244,"endTime":938.704,"body":"got indexes, see where they don't."},{"startTime":939.044,"endTime":939.764,"body":"That kind of stuff."},{"startTime":939.914,"endTime":941.094,"body":"Learn their back end data."},{"startTime":941.244,"endTime":941.584,"body":"Okay?"},{"startTime":941.654,"endTime":944.194,"body":"You might be like, Brian, product"},{"startTime":941.654,"endTime":944.194,"body":"manager doesn't need to do that."},{"startTime":944.234,"endTime":945.274,"body":"That's a waste of your time."},{"startTime":945.504,"endTime":948.044,"body":"You should be managing products"},{"startTime":945.504,"endTime":948.044,"body":"or product managing or whatever."},{"startTime":948.374,"endTime":948.874,"body":"I agree."},{"startTime":948.944,"endTime":950.254,"body":"I agree with you, however."},{"startTime":950.584,"endTime":954.344,"body":"However, it makes me more effective"},{"startTime":950.584,"endTime":954.344,"body":"when I go to plan things in the future."},{"startTime":954.374,"endTime":956.464,"body":"To know, well, this table over here."},{"startTime":956.614,"endTime":960.034,"body":"Is constructed in this way, which"},{"startTime":956.614,"endTime":960.034,"body":"has limited our ability to expand it."},{"startTime":960.034,"endTime":962.474,"body":"So if we want to do anything with"},{"startTime":960.034,"endTime":962.474,"body":"this table, we have to first take"},{"startTime":962.474,"endTime":964.604,"body":"care of the lowest root problems."},{"startTime":964.644,"endTime":964.954,"body":"Right."},{"startTime":964.984,"endTime":965.994,"body":"And then build on top of that."},{"startTime":965.994,"endTime":968.864,"body":"So I can kind of stay away or"},{"startTime":965.994,"endTime":968.864,"body":"attack things in different orders."},{"startTime":968.874,"endTime":970.644,"body":"Anyway, the real point is."},{"startTime":970.769,"endTime":974.779,"body":"When I am answering questions,"},{"startTime":970.769,"endTime":974.779,"body":"I am much faster because I"},{"startTime":974.779,"endTime":975.919,"body":"can go get that data myself."},{"startTime":975.939,"endTime":977.369,"body":"I don't need to rely on anyone else."},{"startTime":977.699,"endTime":979.949,"body":"You know, and then the barrier"},{"startTime":977.699,"endTime":979.949,"body":"usually is trying to convince"},{"startTime":979.949,"endTime":981.219,"body":"somebody that I know what I'm doing."},{"startTime":981.219,"endTime":985.459,"body":"tHat, that's an interesting point about"},{"startTime":981.219,"endTime":985.459,"body":"the barrier because a scrum master you"},{"startTime":985.459,"endTime":990.049,"body":"know, say it is willing to roll up their"},{"startTime":985.459,"endTime":990.049,"body":"sleeves and learn, let's just stick"},{"startTime":990.049,"endTime":992.279,"body":"with a simple example of SQL learn SQL."},{"startTime":992.279,"endTime":993.949,"body":"So they can do just selects."},{"startTime":993.969,"endTime":995.989,"body":"Let's say they have read only access."},{"startTime":995.999,"endTime":997.669,"body":"So they're already starting there."},{"startTime":997.699,"endTime":1000.719,"body":"I said, like I'm going to, I'm going to"},{"startTime":997.699,"endTime":1000.719,"body":"jump in front of your story because I,"},{"startTime":1000.799,"endTime":1004.259,"body":"I agree with what you're about to say"},{"startTime":1000.799,"endTime":1004.259,"body":"is in, in, in the, in the place where"},{"startTime":1004.409,"endTime":1008.159,"body":"In the place where our development"},{"startTime":1004.409,"endTime":1008.159,"body":"takes the time to help employees and"},{"startTime":1008.159,"endTime":1010.569,"body":"sponsor them, sponsor their learning,"},{"startTime":1008.159,"endTime":1010.569,"body":"that's what I'm trying to say."},{"startTime":1010.829,"endTime":1013.939,"body":"They sponsor, they really get behind their"},{"startTime":1010.829,"endTime":1013.939,"body":"learning and they try to make them more"},{"startTime":1013.939,"endTime":1015.159,"body":"effective in the position they're in."},{"startTime":1015.479,"endTime":1016.599,"body":"I 100 percent agree with you."},{"startTime":1016.749,"endTime":1022.559,"body":"However, I feel this question is asked"},{"startTime":1016.749,"endTime":1022.559,"body":"from the perspective of what about"},{"startTime":1022.559,"endTime":1025.889,"body":"the places that are not even willing"},{"startTime":1022.559,"endTime":1025.889,"body":"to hire you if you do not have, you"},{"startTime":1025.899,"endTime":1027.669,"body":"already have learned these skills."},{"startTime":1027.819,"endTime":1032.389,"body":"Another place has taken a chance on,"},{"startTime":1027.819,"endTime":1032.389,"body":"Hey, maybe our, maybe we can extend our"},{"startTime":1032.389,"endTime":1036.749,"body":"scrum master by teaching them SQL and"},{"startTime":1032.389,"endTime":1036.749,"body":"by having them create a hello world app."},{"startTime":1036.749,"endTime":1040.619,"body":"So they understand how code is"},{"startTime":1036.749,"endTime":1040.619,"body":"checked in, how code gets propagated"},{"startTime":1040.619,"endTime":1043.909,"body":"from environment to environment, how"},{"startTime":1040.619,"endTime":1043.909,"body":"things roll into production, how,"},{"startTime":1043.919,"endTime":1047.309,"body":"when things don't work right, or,"},{"startTime":1043.919,"endTime":1047.309,"body":"or like, do you really understand"},{"startTime":1047.479,"endTime":1049.799,"body":"merge conflict as a scrum master?"},{"startTime":1050.019,"endTime":1053.909,"body":"When people tell them like when"},{"startTime":1050.019,"endTime":1053.909,"body":"you go and talk to an executive and"},{"startTime":1053.909,"endTime":1058.029,"body":"try to convince them why it's a bad"},{"startTime":1053.909,"endTime":1058.029,"body":"idea to hold a release for X and Y"},{"startTime":1058.029,"endTime":1059.439,"body":"and Z amount of time or whatever."},{"startTime":1059.589,"endTime":1062.779,"body":"Can you really talk to them the way"},{"startTime":1059.589,"endTime":1062.779,"body":"that your manager of development would"},{"startTime":1062.789,"endTime":1065.669,"body":"talk to them to say, listen, this"},{"startTime":1062.789,"endTime":1065.669,"body":"is going to cause a huge problem."},{"startTime":1065.979,"endTime":1068.069,"body":"It's going to affect all the other"},{"startTime":1065.979,"endTime":1068.069,"body":"stakeholders that are behind you in line."},{"startTime":1068.069,"endTime":1068.979,"body":"It's not fair to them."},{"startTime":1069.129,"endTime":1072.679,"body":"You need to decide like making that"},{"startTime":1069.129,"endTime":1072.679,"body":"case, you need to understand the"},{"startTime":1072.679,"endTime":1073.749,"body":"pain that it's going to inflict."},{"startTime":1074.049,"endTime":1076.879,"body":"And the only way to understand"},{"startTime":1074.049,"endTime":1076.879,"body":"that pain is to use those systems."},{"startTime":1077.169,"endTime":1079.539,"body":"And now, now it's easy for"},{"startTime":1077.169,"endTime":1079.539,"body":"me to take the counterpoint"},{"startTime":1079.539,"endTime":1080.789,"body":"because I really believe this."},{"startTime":1081.009,"endTime":1084.229,"body":"Because again, part of my career where"},{"startTime":1081.009,"endTime":1084.229,"body":"I was a QA engineer, I really believe."},{"startTime":1084.379,"endTime":1087.389,"body":"If you don't truly understand these"},{"startTime":1084.379,"endTime":1087.389,"body":"things, you might roll over when an"},{"startTime":1087.419,"endTime":1090.699,"body":"executive is kind of browbeating you"},{"startTime":1087.419,"endTime":1090.699,"body":"to be like, Wow, I just gotta have my"},{"startTime":1090.699,"endTime":1094.834,"body":"changes and take your branch and shelve"},{"startTime":1090.699,"endTime":1094.834,"body":"it and then take, make a new branch off"},{"startTime":1094.844,"endTime":1097.604,"body":"and then check the new things that I"},{"startTime":1094.844,"endTime":1097.604,"body":"want and promote them over the rest of"},{"startTime":1097.604,"endTime":1098.764,"body":"the releases that are waiting in line."},{"startTime":1098.904,"endTime":1099.614,"body":"Wait a minute."},{"startTime":1099.689,"endTime":1101.129,"body":"We can 100 percent do that."},{"startTime":1101.279,"endTime":1103.799,"body":"We are a hundred percent"},{"startTime":1101.279,"endTime":1103.799,"body":"capable of doing that."},{"startTime":1103.799,"endTime":1108.229,"body":"Let me put it that way, but however,"},{"startTime":1103.799,"endTime":1108.229,"body":"if we do that, we're going to incur a"},{"startTime":1108.359,"endTime":1112.979,"body":"bunch of costs that is not like, there's"},{"startTime":1108.359,"endTime":1112.979,"body":"nowhere to put that cost other than your"},{"startTime":1112.979,"endTime":1114.389,"body":"change that's interrupting everything."},{"startTime":1114.539,"endTime":1117.059,"body":"So you're going to pay extra now"},{"startTime":1114.539,"endTime":1117.059,"body":"to cut to the front of the line."},{"startTime":1117.059,"endTime":1118.389,"body":"That that's basically the way it is."},{"startTime":1118.549,"endTime":1122.479,"body":"I think, understanding the technical,"},{"startTime":1118.549,"endTime":1122.479,"body":"even though you don't do it every day,"},{"startTime":1122.479,"endTime":1124.869,"body":"even though you're not, you're not"},{"startTime":1122.479,"endTime":1124.869,"body":"saying like, Hey, I have these technical"},{"startTime":1124.869,"endTime":1128.729,"body":"skills so that I can jump in and test"},{"startTime":1124.869,"endTime":1128.729,"body":"or jump in and knock out a little part"},{"startTime":1128.729,"endTime":1132.655,"body":"of a script or whatever, although that"},{"startTime":1128.729,"endTime":1132.655,"body":"is certainly an incentive over and above"},{"startTime":1132.674,"endTime":1137.354,"body":"everybody else for the team to hire you"},{"startTime":1132.674,"endTime":1137.354,"body":"when all the rest of the skills are equal."},{"startTime":1137.504,"endTime":1138.924,"body":"Okay, over and above that."},{"startTime":1139.074,"endTime":1142.784,"body":"It it it it would be I'm forgetting"},{"startTime":1139.074,"endTime":1142.784,"body":"my points left and right today."},{"startTime":1142.934,"endTime":1145.264,"body":"Like what I'm saying, it was"},{"startTime":1142.934,"endTime":1145.264,"body":"What I'm saying is it would be"},{"startTime":1145.264,"endTime":1146.624,"body":"beneficial to have those skills."},{"startTime":1146.704,"endTime":1150.074,"body":"Whereas if you didn't have those skills,"},{"startTime":1146.704,"endTime":1150.074,"body":"yeah, I mean, you could learn them."},{"startTime":1150.084,"endTime":1152.074,"body":"Hopefully if your team"},{"startTime":1150.084,"endTime":1152.074,"body":"is that kind of team."},{"startTime":1152.204,"endTime":1152.394,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":1152.394,"endTime":1152.944,"body":"So I agree."},{"startTime":1152.954,"endTime":1155.214,"body":"It would be beneficial"},{"startTime":1152.954,"endTime":1155.214,"body":"if you already had them."},{"startTime":1155.474,"endTime":1157.904,"body":"If you don't have them, you need to have."},{"startTime":1158.054,"endTime":1161.774,"body":"The willingness to learn those,"},{"startTime":1158.054,"endTime":1161.774,"body":"but that doesn't happen overnight."},{"startTime":1161.924,"endTime":1165.904,"body":"The other thing is if you didn't have"},{"startTime":1161.924,"endTime":1165.904,"body":"them on day one, let's say you go in day"},{"startTime":1165.904,"endTime":1170.294,"body":"five, whatever this scenario happens where"},{"startTime":1165.904,"endTime":1170.294,"body":"you're asked to, you know leapfrog other"},{"startTime":1170.294,"endTime":1173.239,"body":"people and put this other stakeholders"},{"startTime":1170.294,"endTime":1173.239,"body":"code in, et cetera, et cetera."},{"startTime":1173.389,"endTime":1176.589,"body":"If you don't know what you don't"},{"startTime":1173.389,"endTime":1176.589,"body":"know, here's what you can do, though."},{"startTime":1176.919,"endTime":1178.839,"body":"This is going away from"},{"startTime":1176.919,"endTime":1178.839,"body":"the technical skills."},{"startTime":1178.989,"endTime":1181.239,"body":"Bring in your tech lead"},{"startTime":1178.989,"endTime":1181.239,"body":"into the discussion."},{"startTime":1181.389,"endTime":1184.009,"body":"And then ask the simple"},{"startTime":1181.389,"endTime":1184.009,"body":"question in plain language."},{"startTime":1184.159,"endTime":1186.619,"body":"If we do this, what are the ramifications?"},{"startTime":1186.769,"endTime":1187.189,"body":"That's it."},{"startTime":1187.339,"endTime":1188.369,"body":"Open ended question."},{"startTime":1188.519,"endTime":1191.079,"body":"And the tech lead could say something,"},{"startTime":1188.519,"endTime":1191.079,"body":"and you could go off of that."},{"startTime":1191.399,"endTime":1195.239,"body":"So what I'm saying is, while Those"},{"startTime":1191.399,"endTime":1195.239,"body":"skills are very, very useful,"},{"startTime":1195.259,"endTime":1196.789,"body":"and I'm not denying that, right?"},{"startTime":1196.939,"endTime":1198.879,"body":"They're by no means essential day one."},{"startTime":1198.919,"endTime":1201.309,"body":"What is essential is that"},{"startTime":1198.919,"endTime":1201.309,"body":"willingness to learn them."},{"startTime":1201.619,"endTime":1203.719,"body":"And you can talk about"},{"startTime":1201.619,"endTime":1203.719,"body":"this on multiple levels."},{"startTime":1203.989,"endTime":1209.959,"body":"I, I usually get scrum masters who are non"},{"startTime":1203.989,"endTime":1209.959,"body":"technical at a level where you say, Well,"},{"startTime":1210.109,"endTime":1212.639,"body":"go figure out the names of these tools."},{"startTime":1212.699,"endTime":1213.169,"body":"That's it."},{"startTime":1213.479,"endTime":1214.509,"body":"You don't have to know what they do."},{"startTime":1214.659,"endTime":1216.709,"body":"Ask your teammates, what tools do we use?"},{"startTime":1216.919,"endTime":1218.989,"body":"And they rattle off a bunch"},{"startTime":1216.919,"endTime":1218.989,"body":"of names, write them down."},{"startTime":1219.139,"endTime":1220.359,"body":"One per line."},{"startTime":1220.509,"endTime":1224.729,"body":"Okay, write them down one per line, and"},{"startTime":1220.509,"endTime":1224.729,"body":"then put a dash next to every word or"},{"startTime":1224.729,"endTime":1228.359,"body":"keywords that you wrote down for the"},{"startTime":1224.729,"endTime":1228.359,"body":"tool names, and write down a short,"},{"startTime":1228.359,"endTime":1230.679,"body":"brief description of what that tool does."},{"startTime":1230.739,"endTime":1231.169,"body":"That's it."},{"startTime":1231.319,"endTime":1231.719,"body":"Right?"},{"startTime":1231.729,"endTime":1234.809,"body":"So, they will have things"},{"startTime":1231.729,"endTime":1234.809,"body":"on there like LaunchDarkly."},{"startTime":1234.869,"endTime":1237.639,"body":"Okay, it facilitates feature toggles."},{"startTime":1237.789,"endTime":1240.209,"body":"They don't understand what"},{"startTime":1237.789,"endTime":1240.209,"body":"feature toggles are at that point."},{"startTime":1240.359,"endTime":1241.729,"body":"But they know there's a tool."},{"startTime":1241.879,"endTime":1244.369,"body":"Now they also know that their"},{"startTime":1241.879,"endTime":1244.369,"body":"team uses feature toggles."},{"startTime":1244.519,"endTime":1244.859,"body":"Right."},{"startTime":1244.859,"endTime":1247.589,"body":"So you've already moved up in"},{"startTime":1244.859,"endTime":1247.589,"body":"your knowledge that, Oh yeah,"},{"startTime":1247.589,"endTime":1250.819,"body":"we, we use feature toggles and"},{"startTime":1247.589,"endTime":1250.819,"body":"we use launch darkly for that."},{"startTime":1250.829,"endTime":1253.279,"body":"You could use that sheet as a"},{"startTime":1250.829,"endTime":1253.279,"body":"reference sheet, carry it with you."},{"startTime":1253.279,"endTime":1254.599,"body":"If you want pretty notebook."},{"startTime":1254.749,"endTime":1258.609,"body":"So you're, you're not an expert in"},{"startTime":1254.749,"endTime":1258.609,"body":"the whole concept of feature toggles."},{"startTime":1258.609,"endTime":1262.179,"body":"You're not, you're also not an"},{"startTime":1258.609,"endTime":1262.179,"body":"expert in that tool launch darkly."},{"startTime":1262.179,"endTime":1265.009,"body":"There are other tools, but I'm"},{"startTime":1262.179,"endTime":1265.009,"body":"just using these as examples."},{"startTime":1265.159,"endTime":1269.139,"body":"So as Scrum master could incrementally"},{"startTime":1265.159,"endTime":1269.139,"body":"build up their knowledge and"},{"startTime":1269.199,"endTime":1270.399,"body":"that should be their willingness."},{"startTime":1270.549,"endTime":1272.059,"body":"Incrementally build up the knowledge."},{"startTime":1272.209,"endTime":1276.089,"body":"I'm not suggesting that a scrum master"},{"startTime":1272.209,"endTime":1276.089,"body":"be hired over others because they have"},{"startTime":1276.119,"endTime":1280.969,"body":"technical skills like scripting or SQL"},{"startTime":1276.119,"endTime":1280.969,"body":"because what they don't have possibly"},{"startTime":1281.119,"endTime":1285.739,"body":"could be other soft skills that are"},{"startTime":1281.119,"endTime":1285.739,"body":"really needed to be a scrum master, right?"},{"startTime":1286.019,"endTime":1289.429,"body":"Empathy and things like that, listening"},{"startTime":1286.019,"endTime":1289.429,"body":"skills, listening with intent."},{"startTime":1289.579,"endTime":1292.539,"body":"So yeah, it's, it's, but I"},{"startTime":1289.579,"endTime":1292.539,"body":"understand how people hire too."},{"startTime":1292.614,"endTime":1296.274,"body":"The timeliness of talking about"},{"startTime":1292.614,"endTime":1296.274,"body":"this category is I think of all"},{"startTime":1296.274,"endTime":1299.694,"body":"the applications that I see on the"},{"startTime":1296.274,"endTime":1299.694,"body":"internet that are like the scrum"},{"startTime":1299.694,"endTime":1303.804,"body":"master job at particular companies"},{"startTime":1299.694,"endTime":1303.804,"body":"and I see like 800 applicants and"},{"startTime":1303.804,"endTime":1305.424,"body":"the jobs have been open like a day."},{"startTime":1305.664,"endTime":1305.904,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":1306.084,"endTime":1307.974,"body":"And I'm like, oh, good goodness."},{"startTime":1307.974,"endTime":1308.544,"body":"Like, you know what?"},{"startTime":1308.694,"endTime":1311.664,"body":"Crazy, if I were hiring for a scrum"},{"startTime":1308.694,"endTime":1311.664,"body":"master, I would be, I'd be looking."},{"startTime":1311.814,"endTime":1315.124,"body":"To knock it out of the park with"},{"startTime":1311.814,"endTime":1315.124,"body":"all of the facilitation skills,"},{"startTime":1315.124,"endTime":1317.554,"body":"communication skills, organizational"},{"startTime":1315.124,"endTime":1317.554,"body":"design, that kind of stuff."},{"startTime":1317.804,"endTime":1319.084,"body":"And also..."},{"startTime":1319.234,"endTime":1322.934,"body":"Maybe they've got a sprinkling if I"},{"startTime":1319.234,"endTime":1322.934,"body":"put all the resumes together that have"},{"startTime":1322.934,"endTime":1326.824,"body":"all these skills and then somebody has"},{"startTime":1322.934,"endTime":1326.824,"body":"a sprinkling of these technical skills"},{"startTime":1326.824,"endTime":1331.309,"body":"on top of it, I mean assuming that a, a"},{"startTime":1326.824,"endTime":1331.309,"body":"technical person is hiring in the scrum"},{"startTime":1331.309,"endTime":1334.579,"body":"master and that your scrum, your scrum"},{"startTime":1331.309,"endTime":1334.579,"body":"masters don't work for, I don't know,"},{"startTime":1334.729,"endTime":1336.149,"body":"something wild like product, PMO, PMO."},{"startTime":1336.169,"endTime":1336.969,"body":"Yeah, I don't really know."},{"startTime":1337.209,"endTime":1337.479,"body":". I don't know."},{"startTime":1337.479,"endTime":1340.209,"body":"At that point, I think they're"},{"startTime":1337.479,"endTime":1340.209,"body":"hiring to like, Hey, will this"},{"startTime":1340.209,"endTime":1341.709,"body":"person do what I say at that point?"},{"startTime":1341.709,"endTime":1342.369,"body":"So I Exactly."},{"startTime":1342.369,"endTime":1342.999,"body":"I don't have any, yeah."},{"startTime":1343.329,"endTime":1344.019,"body":"Yes, men."},{"startTime":1344.049,"endTime":1344.679,"body":"I don't have any."},{"startTime":1344.829,"endTime":1345.099,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":1345.159,"endTime":1346.449,"body":"I'm not helpful in that conversation."},{"startTime":1346.449,"endTime":1346.509,"body":"No."},{"startTime":1346.729,"endTime":1350.904,"body":"But one of the things, one of the things"},{"startTime":1346.729,"endTime":1350.904,"body":"that I remember from the, the first"},{"startTime":1350.934,"endTime":1356.084,"body":"time that I ever was a scrum master"},{"startTime":1350.934,"endTime":1356.084,"body":"on a team , the skill that I, and all"},{"startTime":1356.084,"endTime":1361.189,"body":"the rest of the Scrum masters had,"},{"startTime":1356.084,"endTime":1361.189,"body":"was the business analysis skill set."},{"startTime":1361.339,"endTime":1365.719,"body":"We were all mini BAs and scrum"},{"startTime":1361.339,"endTime":1365.719,"body":"masters at the same time."},{"startTime":1365.869,"endTime":1369.089,"body":"And that was fantastic because"},{"startTime":1365.869,"endTime":1369.089,"body":"you actually could help"},{"startTime":1369.089,"endTime":1370.899,"body":"the team and help product."},{"startTime":1370.939,"endTime":1374.439,"body":"You could, you could coach those dual"},{"startTime":1370.939,"endTime":1374.439,"body":"roles because you could help product"},{"startTime":1374.439,"endTime":1378.304,"body":"because a typical product manager"},{"startTime":1374.439,"endTime":1378.304,"body":"The longer in my career I go on,"},{"startTime":1378.314,"endTime":1381.934,"body":"the more I realize that the typical"},{"startTime":1378.314,"endTime":1381.934,"body":"product manager does not necessarily"},{"startTime":1381.934,"endTime":1383.614,"body":"have the business analysis skill set."},{"startTime":1383.739,"endTime":1386.854,"body":"I would think a lot of business"},{"startTime":1383.739,"endTime":1386.854,"body":"analysts would jump to that."},{"startTime":1387.154,"endTime":1390.344,"body":"To becoming a product owner or product"},{"startTime":1387.154,"endTime":1390.344,"body":"manager  that route because they're"},{"startTime":1390.344,"endTime":1393.904,"body":"already part of their jobs already"},{"startTime":1390.344,"endTime":1393.904,"body":"talking to people sure and Conducting"},{"startTime":1393.904,"endTime":1395.014,"body":"user interviews and stuff like that."},{"startTime":1395.024,"endTime":1396.144,"body":"It really lends itself."},{"startTime":1396.284,"endTime":1399.324,"body":"I mean it really lends itself into that"},{"startTime":1396.284,"endTime":1399.324,"body":"This is I don't know why I'm doing this"},{"startTime":1399.324,"endTime":1401.874,"body":"roller coaster in my hand It's it's"},{"startTime":1399.324,"endTime":1401.874,"body":"it's because it's a roller coaster."},{"startTime":1401.894,"endTime":1403.074,"body":"You start down here and then you go up."},{"startTime":1403.074,"endTime":1403.484,"body":"I don't know"},{"startTime":1403.634,"endTime":1408.004,"body":"Well, I agree that that's a"},{"startTime":1403.634,"endTime":1408.004,"body":"natural kind of natural pathway."},{"startTime":1408.004,"endTime":1411.164,"body":"It should be And they bring the"},{"startTime":1408.004,"endTime":1411.164,"body":"analysis skills that, again, I agree,"},{"startTime":1411.174,"endTime":1412.974,"body":"most product folks don't have that."},{"startTime":1413.124,"endTime":1415.024,"body":"If they didn't come up"},{"startTime":1413.124,"endTime":1415.024,"body":"through that pathway, right?"},{"startTime":1415.174,"endTime":1418.244,"body":"But I want to just touch on something"},{"startTime":1415.174,"endTime":1418.244,"body":"that I forgot to mention earlier, which"},{"startTime":1418.244,"endTime":1420.674,"body":"is skills that a Scrum Master should have."},{"startTime":1420.684,"endTime":1422.024,"body":"You could say these are technical."},{"startTime":1422.034,"endTime":1425.304,"body":"I'll put the word technical in brackets"},{"startTime":1422.034,"endTime":1425.304,"body":"in front of the word skills, right?"},{"startTime":1425.454,"endTime":1429.944,"body":"You're, you're often You either come"},{"startTime":1425.454,"endTime":1429.944,"body":"across the need for or are often asked"},{"startTime":1429.944,"endTime":1435.904,"body":"for things that make you want to take data"},{"startTime":1429.944,"endTime":1435.904,"body":"from whatever system, extract it out into"},{"startTime":1435.904,"endTime":1438.084,"body":"something else, and then munged the data."},{"startTime":1438.114,"endTime":1441.124,"body":"That's a technical term right there"},{"startTime":1438.114,"endTime":1441.124,"body":"and then come up with whatever it"},{"startTime":1441.124,"endTime":1442.544,"body":"is that that's been asked of you."},{"startTime":1442.824,"endTime":1446.464,"body":"So being able to use things"},{"startTime":1442.824,"endTime":1446.464,"body":"like, Extracts out of A."},{"startTime":1446.464,"endTime":1446.594,"body":"L."},{"startTime":1446.594,"endTime":1446.784,"body":"M."},{"startTime":1446.784,"endTime":1449.774,"body":"Systems into spreadsheets, perhaps, right?"},{"startTime":1450.114,"endTime":1453.654,"body":"But if you advance enough, you could"},{"startTime":1450.114,"endTime":1453.654,"body":"put things into access or whatever."},{"startTime":1453.654,"endTime":1454.214,"body":"That's fine."},{"startTime":1454.214,"endTime":1456.524,"body":"But if you don't, that's fine to Excel."},{"startTime":1456.674,"endTime":1457.374,"body":"Great, right?"},{"startTime":1457.374,"endTime":1461.754,"body":"And then being able to manipulate"},{"startTime":1457.374,"endTime":1461.754,"body":"this data, being able to create a data"},{"startTime":1461.754,"endTime":1464.104,"body":"source link from Excel into that system."},{"startTime":1464.409,"endTime":1468.329,"body":"So that whenever you're looking at it,"},{"startTime":1464.409,"endTime":1468.329,"body":"you're not copy pasting data or anything."},{"startTime":1468.329,"endTime":1469.079,"body":"It's real time."},{"startTime":1469.229,"endTime":1470.599,"body":"Those skills are invaluable."},{"startTime":1470.869,"endTime":1473.219,"body":"And they will help you as a scrum master."},{"startTime":1473.369,"endTime":1473.709,"body":"Right?"},{"startTime":1473.819,"endTime":1474.969,"body":"They will help you immensely."},{"startTime":1474.979,"endTime":1476.839,"body":"So at least develop those day one."},{"startTime":1476.889,"endTime":1481.039,"body":"Yeah, what you're describing now is"},{"startTime":1476.889,"endTime":1481.039,"body":"sort of the, the, the cross section of"},{"startTime":1481.164,"endTime":1481.764,"body":"tooling."},{"startTime":1481.914,"endTime":1486.714,"body":"Data analytics and API integrations,"},{"startTime":1481.914,"endTime":1486.714,"body":"it's sort of those three things together."},{"startTime":1486.934,"endTime":1492.214,"body":"I think of, I, I, I, I think of a"},{"startTime":1486.934,"endTime":1492.214,"body":"team that I was with one time, where"},{"startTime":1492.514,"endTime":1497.074,"body":"the leadership at the organization"},{"startTime":1492.514,"endTime":1497.074,"body":"asked me to do some pretty advanced"},{"startTime":1497.074,"endTime":1502.234,"body":"reporting That you can only get through"},{"startTime":1497.074,"endTime":1502.234,"body":"the back end of Azure DevOps system."},{"startTime":1502.234,"endTime":1505.714,"body":"The, the, the API of Azure"},{"startTime":1502.234,"endTime":1505.714,"body":"DevOps and JIRA both."},{"startTime":1505.864,"endTime":1509.424,"body":"Have a lot more functionality"},{"startTime":1505.864,"endTime":1509.424,"body":"than is exposed through the UI."},{"startTime":1509.574,"endTime":1512.604,"body":"So they asked me to do, and especially"},{"startTime":1509.574,"endTime":1512.604,"body":"when you're dealing with archived"},{"startTime":1512.614,"endTime":1516.694,"body":"data, it's sort of difficult to,"},{"startTime":1512.614,"endTime":1516.694,"body":"to, to get that data and expose it"},{"startTime":1516.704,"endTime":1520.544,"body":"in a way that is meaningful without"},{"startTime":1516.704,"endTime":1520.544,"body":"scripting of some way, shape, or form."},{"startTime":1520.694,"endTime":1524.184,"body":"So like, I, I was at that point"},{"startTime":1520.694,"endTime":1524.184,"body":"in my career, I was a scripting"},{"startTime":1524.364,"endTime":1526.364,"body":"like, pro at that point."},{"startTime":1526.364,"endTime":1528.924,"body":"You know, I could take a, take a"},{"startTime":1526.364,"endTime":1528.924,"body":"script that I had developed when I"},{"startTime":1528.924,"endTime":1530.714,"body":"was a smarter person in the past."},{"startTime":1530.874,"endTime":1534.054,"body":"And copy paste with the best"},{"startTime":1530.874,"endTime":1534.054,"body":"of them and you know, reuse,"},{"startTime":1534.334,"endTime":1536.254,"body":"reuse and reduce and recycle."},{"startTime":1536.254,"endTime":1537.184,"body":"Releverage."},{"startTime":1537.224,"endTime":1538.044,"body":"That's exactly right."},{"startTime":1538.044,"endTime":1538.314,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":1538.314,"endTime":1543.704,"body":"And that's sort of a, a data analysis"},{"startTime":1538.314,"endTime":1543.704,"body":"slash reporting skill set right there"},{"startTime":1544.054,"endTime":1547.634,"body":"is kind of understanding what people"},{"startTime":1544.054,"endTime":1547.634,"body":"are looking for and then looking how"},{"startTime":1547.634,"endTime":1550.479,"body":"you can get it out of the data and"},{"startTime":1547.634,"endTime":1550.479,"body":"then writing a program to basically"},{"startTime":1550.479,"endTime":1552.069,"body":"get it on a, on a regular basis."},{"startTime":1552.269,"endTime":1555.629,"body":"I think that there were some things"},{"startTime":1552.269,"endTime":1555.629,"body":"I was doing daily, weekly and."},{"startTime":1555.779,"endTime":1556.559,"body":"Probably quarterly."},{"startTime":1556.709,"endTime":1557.439,"body":"I don't really remember."},{"startTime":1557.449,"endTime":1558.139,"body":"It was a long time."},{"startTime":1558.139,"endTime":1559.019,"body":"It was like five years ago."},{"startTime":1559.169,"endTime":1562.859,"body":"But that, that skill set , I could"},{"startTime":1559.169,"endTime":1562.859,"body":"not have done without without"},{"startTime":1563.009,"endTime":1564.049,"body":"programming knowledge, you know."},{"startTime":1564.059,"endTime":1566.969,"body":"Yeah, it does rely on that"},{"startTime":1564.059,"endTime":1566.969,"body":"foundation, doesn't it, really?"},{"startTime":1566.969,"endTime":1568.409,"body":"Yeah, scripting and things like that."},{"startTime":1568.419,"endTime":1571.459,"body":"And you can Python's like, it's"},{"startTime":1568.419,"endTime":1571.459,"body":"a very learner friendly language."},{"startTime":1571.469,"endTime":1571.839,"body":"Sure."},{"startTime":1571.989,"endTime":1572.469,"body":"Sure."},{"startTime":1572.699,"endTime":1575.489,"body":"So I'm not saying, I'm not saying"},{"startTime":1572.699,"endTime":1575.489,"body":"that this is not your pearl."},{"startTime":1575.769,"endTime":1577.589,"body":"No, I'm not saying you couldn't learn it."},{"startTime":1577.739,"endTime":1578.749,"body":"Yeah, certainly."},{"startTime":1578.899,"endTime":1582.619,"body":"But again, like I go back to like,"},{"startTime":1578.899,"endTime":1582.619,"body":"well, what skills should you have?"},{"startTime":1582.869,"endTime":1586.989,"body":"I there was a lot of benefit"},{"startTime":1582.869,"endTime":1586.989,"body":"in my scrum master being able"},{"startTime":1586.989,"endTime":1588.799,"body":"to do just basic scripting."},{"startTime":1589.099,"endTime":1589.469,"body":"Sure."},{"startTime":1589.569,"endTime":1591.259,"body":"Super basic, very basic."},{"startTime":1591.589,"endTime":1594.349,"body":"How to query an API, take"},{"startTime":1591.589,"endTime":1594.349,"body":"results, spit them out."},{"startTime":1594.689,"endTime":1595.679,"body":"How to email."},{"startTime":1595.829,"endTime":1596.659,"body":"Through, through scripts."},{"startTime":1596.689,"endTime":1597.739,"body":"Like, very basic stuff."},{"startTime":1597.889,"endTime":1598.999,"body":"You can learn this in a day."},{"startTime":1599.069,"endTime":1599.399,"body":"You know what I mean?"},{"startTime":1599.399,"endTime":1600.709,"body":"Trial and error, you"},{"startTime":1599.399,"endTime":1600.709,"body":"can learn it in a day."},{"startTime":1600.859,"endTime":1601.919,"body":"You know, check your work in."},{"startTime":1602.199,"endTime":1604.909,"body":"Let other people debug it with you if"},{"startTime":1602.199,"endTime":1604.909,"body":"you're having problems or whatever."},{"startTime":1604.909,"endTime":1607.139,"body":"But this, this is all the"},{"startTime":1604.909,"endTime":1607.139,"body":"basics of, of programming."},{"startTime":1607.429,"endTime":1610.349,"body":"Could be very intimidating to"},{"startTime":1607.429,"endTime":1610.349,"body":"someone who's never done it before."},{"startTime":1610.629,"endTime":1612.999,"body":"And I could see the barrier to"},{"startTime":1610.629,"endTime":1612.999,"body":"entry for someone who's never"},{"startTime":1612.999,"endTime":1614.449,"body":"done it before, certainly."},{"startTime":1614.589,"endTime":1618.059,"body":"However this is where, this is the"},{"startTime":1614.589,"endTime":1618.059,"body":"conversation I wanted to get into."},{"startTime":1618.099,"endTime":1621.689,"body":"Which is a lot of people are out there,"},{"startTime":1618.099,"endTime":1621.689,"body":"especially on the internet, lobbying"},{"startTime":1621.689,"endTime":1623.349,"body":"that you don't need these skills, right?"},{"startTime":1623.389,"endTime":1626.969,"body":"Or, or well, these skills kind of"},{"startTime":1623.389,"endTime":1626.969,"body":"take you away from the cost rating"},{"startTime":1626.969,"endTime":1628.259,"body":"on advanced facilitation or whatever."},{"startTime":1628.269,"endTime":1630.459,"body":"I just, I do not see it that way."},{"startTime":1630.689,"endTime":1634.919,"body":"I, I, again, I, most of the people"},{"startTime":1630.689,"endTime":1634.919,"body":"hiring for these positions, scrum"},{"startTime":1634.919,"endTime":1636.894,"body":"masters specifically we're not"},{"startTime":1634.919,"endTime":1636.894,"body":"talking about agile coaches."},{"startTime":1636.934,"endTime":1637.254,"body":"Right."},{"startTime":1637.254,"endTime":1640.584,"body":"Especially the coaches that can position"},{"startTime":1637.254,"endTime":1640.584,"body":"themselves up at the leadership level."},{"startTime":1640.624,"endTime":1641.504,"body":"That's different."},{"startTime":1641.684,"endTime":1642.984,"body":"That's a whole different game."},{"startTime":1643.134,"endTime":1645.519,"body":"And it requires, potentially, if"},{"startTime":1643.134,"endTime":1645.519,"body":"we want to talk about that, we can"},{"startTime":1645.519,"endTime":1649.919,"body":"touch on that here because that, I'll"},{"startTime":1645.519,"endTime":1649.919,"body":"be much quicker to agree with you"},{"startTime":1650.069,"endTime":1652.269,"body":"it doesn't really matter what your"},{"startTime":1650.069,"endTime":1652.269,"body":"technical skills are at that point."},{"startTime":1652.489,"endTime":1657.369,"body":"It matters how well you present yourself"},{"startTime":1652.489,"endTime":1657.369,"body":"and how, how good a facilitation"},{"startTime":1657.369,"endTime":1659.959,"body":"and, and, and the other digging"},{"startTime":1657.369,"endTime":1659.959,"body":"into problems and stuff like working"},{"startTime":1659.959,"endTime":1660.809,"body":"with people, that kind of stuff."},{"startTime":1660.819,"endTime":1661.229,"body":"I agree."},{"startTime":1661.379,"endTime":1664.229,"body":"Scrum Mastery, on the other hand,"},{"startTime":1661.379,"endTime":1664.229,"body":"all things being equal, again, even"},{"startTime":1664.229,"endTime":1665.939,"body":"on paper, all things being equal."},{"startTime":1666.089,"endTime":1670.889,"body":"One, having this stuff already, versus"},{"startTime":1666.089,"endTime":1670.889,"body":"one you have to put work into to train."},{"startTime":1671.069,"endTime":1672.719,"body":"You have to put some money into to train."},{"startTime":1672.869,"endTime":1674.869,"body":"Like, who's going to get"},{"startTime":1672.869,"endTime":1674.869,"body":"their foot in the door first?"},{"startTime":1675.559,"endTime":1676.789,"body":"There's no arguing with that."},{"startTime":1677.109,"endTime":1681.439,"body":"Especially assuming that both can express"},{"startTime":1677.109,"endTime":1681.439,"body":"themselves eloquently at the interview."},{"startTime":1681.459,"endTime":1684.349,"body":"The person who has those"},{"startTime":1681.459,"endTime":1684.349,"body":"skills could say..."},{"startTime":1684.499,"endTime":1687.579,"body":"These are skills I have and here's"},{"startTime":1684.499,"endTime":1687.579,"body":"how I've used them in the past, i."},{"startTime":1687.579,"endTime":1687.789,"body":"e."},{"startTime":1687.819,"endTime":1691.869,"body":"the interviewer is now thinking, okay,"},{"startTime":1687.819,"endTime":1691.869,"body":"this person could apply those skills"},{"startTime":1691.869,"endTime":1693.239,"body":"again, right, in the future too."},{"startTime":1693.389,"endTime":1694.739,"body":"So there's no arguing there."},{"startTime":1694.789,"endTime":1696.569,"body":"All I'm saying is the willingness."},{"startTime":1696.579,"endTime":1700.329,"body":"So you talked about how some people just"},{"startTime":1696.579,"endTime":1700.329,"body":"say, well, that's, that's very technical."},{"startTime":1700.599,"endTime":1704.469,"body":"I feel like to a certain degree, to a"},{"startTime":1700.599,"endTime":1704.469,"body":"certain degree, and it's a large, to"},{"startTime":1704.469,"endTime":1709.889,"body":"a certain degree, Scrum Masters that"},{"startTime":1704.469,"endTime":1709.889,"body":"are, From a non technical background."},{"startTime":1710.039,"endTime":1712.569,"body":"I think the barrier is"},{"startTime":1710.039,"endTime":1712.569,"body":"largely self imposed."},{"startTime":1712.599,"endTime":1714.769,"body":"They, they convince"},{"startTime":1712.599,"endTime":1714.769,"body":"themselves, this is hard."},{"startTime":1714.779,"endTime":1717.059,"body":"Scripting, I've never done that,"},{"startTime":1714.779,"endTime":1717.059,"body":"that's, that's programming."},{"startTime":1717.379,"endTime":1718.689,"body":"Like, try it, right?"},{"startTime":1718.759,"endTime":1723.273,"body":"And, and use something like,   the"},{"startTime":1718.759,"endTime":1723.273,"body":"language that should be used, maybe"},{"startTime":1723.273,"endTime":1725.073,"body":"one or two, that really lets you in."},{"startTime":1725.083,"endTime":1726.833,"body":"They're more like English, almost."},{"startTime":1726.983,"endTime":1731.493,"body":"So, definitely use you know, use Python or"},{"startTime":1726.983,"endTime":1731.493,"body":"something similar to get in, get your..."},{"startTime":1731.643,"endTime":1733.543,"body":"interest growing, right?"},{"startTime":1733.823,"endTime":1736.353,"body":"But if you just convince yourself,"},{"startTime":1733.823,"endTime":1736.353,"body":"hey, that, that's technical."},{"startTime":1736.353,"endTime":1737.163,"body":"I don't do that."},{"startTime":1737.313,"endTime":1738.473,"body":"That's the wrong attitude."},{"startTime":1738.598,"endTime":1740.538,"body":"I just read a bunch of posts"},{"startTime":1738.598,"endTime":1740.538,"body":"last night that were like,"},{"startTime":1740.538,"endTime":1741.598,"body":"what does a scrum master do?"},{"startTime":1741.798,"endTime":1745.248,"body":"Somebody was going up and down on, I"},{"startTime":1741.798,"endTime":1745.248,"body":"think it was Reddit, . There was a thread"},{"startTime":1745.248,"endTime":1749.618,"body":"where somebody was Pretty much adamantly"},{"startTime":1745.248,"endTime":1749.618,"body":"saying well, a Scrum Master with only one"},{"startTime":1749.618,"endTime":1751.478,"body":"team, basically, that's a part time job."},{"startTime":1751.488,"endTime":1755.128,"body":"Like, you're not gonna work more than 50"},{"startTime":1751.488,"endTime":1755.128,"body":"percent of of the hours of a normal job."},{"startTime":1755.138,"endTime":1757.518,"body":"Like, there's no way you"},{"startTime":1755.138,"endTime":1757.518,"body":"could work more than 20 hours."},{"startTime":1757.868,"endTime":1761.338,"body":"Kind of hilarious to me but, but,"},{"startTime":1757.868,"endTime":1761.338,"body":"a lot of people think that way."},{"startTime":1761.568,"endTime":1761.988,"body":"They do."},{"startTime":1762.148,"endTime":1764.598,"body":"You know, a lot of people think that way,"},{"startTime":1762.148,"endTime":1764.598,"body":"and, and the question is well, what does"},{"startTime":1764.598,"endTime":1766.908,"body":"a Scrum Master do with the rest of their"},{"startTime":1764.598,"endTime":1766.908,"body":"day when they're not running the events?"},{"startTime":1766.928,"endTime":1770.328,"body":"That, that, that's, that's what I"},{"startTime":1766.928,"endTime":1770.328,"body":"would expect, that's the lowbrow"},{"startTime":1770.348,"endTime":1771.338,"body":"thing that I would expect."},{"startTime":1771.673,"endTime":1774.033,"body":"Out of your typical troll on the internet."},{"startTime":1774.398,"endTime":1778.448,"body":"The lowest common denominator"},{"startTime":1774.398,"endTime":1778.448,"body":"comment would be, What do you do"},{"startTime":1778.448,"endTime":1780.008,"body":"all day outside of the 15 minutes?"},{"startTime":1780.343,"endTime":1782.233,"body":"They could be doing what"},{"startTime":1780.343,"endTime":1782.233,"body":"everyone else is doing."},{"startTime":1783.033,"endTime":1786.153,"body":"They could be testing they could be"},{"startTime":1783.033,"endTime":1786.153,"body":"scripting They could be answering"},{"startTime":1786.153,"endTime":1788.983,"body":"requests for searches in the database"},{"startTime":1786.153,"endTime":1788.983,"body":"and stuff like that because maybe you"},{"startTime":1788.983,"endTime":1792.703,"body":"don't have a ui You know, I mean to to"},{"startTime":1788.983,"endTime":1792.703,"body":"help you do that They could be helping"},{"startTime":1792.703,"endTime":1794.703,"body":"customer support with looking for things."},{"startTime":1794.703,"endTime":1797.273,"body":"They could be doing a million they could"},{"startTime":1794.703,"endTime":1797.273,"body":"be doing active development It could"},{"startTime":1797.273,"endTime":1801.923,"body":"be if you have a developer playing the"},{"startTime":1797.273,"endTime":1801.923,"body":"role part time, they're doing active"},{"startTime":1801.923,"endTime":1803.293,"body":"development with the rest of their time."},{"startTime":1803.343,"endTime":1803.803,"body":"That's right."},{"startTime":1803.863,"endTime":1804.833,"body":"That's a great point."},{"startTime":1804.843,"endTime":1807.633,"body":"So listen, what happens, we"},{"startTime":1804.843,"endTime":1807.633,"body":"talk about Scrum Masters, right?"},{"startTime":1807.783,"endTime":1807.943,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":1808.093,"endTime":1809.813,"body":"Okay, in Scrum Master."},{"startTime":1810.153,"endTime":1811.533,"body":"In Scrum Master."},{"startTime":1811.683,"endTime":1815.093,"body":"So somebody is playing the role"},{"startTime":1811.683,"endTime":1815.093,"body":"of coordination, etc, right?"},{"startTime":1815.183,"endTime":1818.153,"body":"And it's typically one of the"},{"startTime":1815.183,"endTime":1818.153,"body":"team members, tester, developer."},{"startTime":1818.303,"endTime":1821.303,"body":"They have their regular job, so to speak."},{"startTime":1821.453,"endTime":1823.433,"body":"These people already have the skills."},{"startTime":1823.663,"endTime":1826.763,"body":"And you can see the conversation"},{"startTime":1823.663,"endTime":1826.763,"body":"is way different there."},{"startTime":1826.913,"endTime":1827.233,"body":"Right."},{"startTime":1827.393,"endTime":1828.733,"body":"Somebody could mention something."},{"startTime":1828.733,"endTime":1829.843,"body":"Oh, yeah, I know how to do that."},{"startTime":1830.053,"endTime":1830.883,"body":"We have the raw data."},{"startTime":1830.893,"endTime":1833.363,"body":"We'll just stick that into"},{"startTime":1830.893,"endTime":1833.363,"body":"power bi and we'll come up"},{"startTime":1833.363,"endTime":1835.133,"body":"with a beautiful presentation."},{"startTime":1835.283,"endTime":1838.263,"body":"Like a scrum master who doesn't"},{"startTime":1835.283,"endTime":1838.263,"body":"understand or doesn't even know"},{"startTime":1838.263,"endTime":1840.403,"body":"potentially what power bi is."},{"startTime":1840.483,"endTime":1840.543,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":1840.693,"endTime":1842.313,"body":"That, that's the level"},{"startTime":1840.693,"endTime":1842.313,"body":"we're talking about."},{"startTime":1842.313,"endTime":1842.373,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":1842.403,"endTime":1845.433,"body":"If those people who come in and"},{"startTime":1842.403,"endTime":1845.433,"body":"say, I don't need to be technical."},{"startTime":1845.733,"endTime":1846.453,"body":"We use Power bi."},{"startTime":1846.753,"endTime":1847.293,"body":"What's that?"},{"startTime":1847.443,"endTime":1849.718,"body":"They, I'm saying at"},{"startTime":1847.443,"endTime":1849.718,"body":"least learn what that is."},{"startTime":1849.748,"endTime":1849.838,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":1850.078,"endTime":1851.728,"body":"And how is it used?"},{"startTime":1851.728,"endTime":1853.408,"body":"Start there, but don't stop there."},{"startTime":1853.438,"endTime":1853.648,"body":"Mm-Hmm."},{"startTime":1853.983,"endTime":1854.938,"body":", that's, that's the beginning."},{"startTime":1854.938,"endTime":1857.818,"body":"And then say, oh, well"},{"startTime":1854.938,"endTime":1857.818,"body":"how do I get this data in?"},{"startTime":1857.818,"endTime":1859.138,"body":"What does this tool do for me?"},{"startTime":1859.138,"endTime":1861.848,"body":"It visualizes things and"},{"startTime":1859.138,"endTime":1861.848,"body":"it lets me deep dive."},{"startTime":1861.938,"endTime":1862.088,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":1862.388,"endTime":1863.528,"body":"How will that be useful?"},{"startTime":1863.838,"endTime":1865.938,"body":"Well, maybe your"},{"startTime":1863.838,"endTime":1865.938,"body":"leadership could use that."},{"startTime":1866.198,"endTime":1869.798,"body":"So then have a go at creating"},{"startTime":1866.198,"endTime":1869.798,"body":"a Power BI dashboard, right?"},{"startTime":1869.838,"endTime":1872.428,"body":"Actually try it out because"},{"startTime":1869.838,"endTime":1872.428,"body":"there's no, there's no cost to"},{"startTime":1872.428,"endTime":1874.288,"body":"try it out and learn that way."},{"startTime":1874.438,"endTime":1878.988,"body":"The nice thing here is chances are good"},{"startTime":1874.438,"endTime":1878.988,"body":"that somebody on your team or another team"},{"startTime":1878.988,"endTime":1883.128,"body":"nearby has the answer to the questions"},{"startTime":1878.988,"endTime":1883.128,"body":"and roadblocks that you may run into."},{"startTime":1883.418,"endTime":1887.748,"body":"Because guaranteed those will be really"},{"startTime":1883.418,"endTime":1887.748,"body":"simple to solve for most developers, so by"},{"startTime":1887.748,"endTime":1890.138,"body":"all means, dive in, roll up your sleeves."},{"startTime":1890.288,"endTime":1890.558,"body":"Yeah"},{"startTime":1890.633,"endTime":1894.313,"body":"When people say communication skill"},{"startTime":1890.633,"endTime":1894.313,"body":"or facilitation skill, like that's a"},{"startTime":1894.313,"endTime":1898.393,"body":"very broad topic for what I'm talking"},{"startTime":1894.313,"endTime":1898.393,"body":"about, but, but here's, here's also"},{"startTime":1898.393,"endTime":1901.133,"body":"what I'm talking about is, is there's"},{"startTime":1898.393,"endTime":1901.133,"body":"another conversation that's kind of"},{"startTime":1901.133,"endTime":1902.583,"body":"parallel to the one we're having now."},{"startTime":1902.733,"endTime":1903.823,"body":"And that conversation is."},{"startTime":1903.973,"endTime":1908.033,"body":"Is it possible to be an effective"},{"startTime":1903.973,"endTime":1908.033,"body":"scrum master without much experience?"},{"startTime":1908.033,"endTime":1912.058,"body":"Because if you ask the real"},{"startTime":1908.033,"endTime":1912.058,"body":"hardened developers, , the Zealots,"},{"startTime":1912.208,"endTime":1915.618,"body":"they'll tell you, scrum master"},{"startTime":1912.208,"endTime":1915.618,"body":"is not a beginner position."},{"startTime":1915.708,"endTime":1918.198,"body":"It is a very advanced position."},{"startTime":1918.548,"endTime":1921.938,"body":"And we, we can kind of argue about"},{"startTime":1918.548,"endTime":1921.938,"body":"whether that's, that's appropriate with"},{"startTime":1921.938,"endTime":1925.261,"body":"the level of scrum master that we see you"},{"startTime":1921.938,"endTime":1925.261,"body":"there's a ton of additional stuff that"},{"startTime":1925.351,"endTime":1926.876,"body":"probably deserves its own podcast, right?"},{"startTime":1927.026,"endTime":1930.536,"body":"But if you look at it from that, if that"},{"startTime":1927.026,"endTime":1930.536,"body":"really is your perspective, the scrum"},{"startTime":1930.536,"endTime":1932.786,"body":"master role is a very advanced role."},{"startTime":1932.796,"endTime":1934.646,"body":"I mean, you really should"},{"startTime":1932.796,"endTime":1934.646,"body":"have understanding of the"},{"startTime":1934.646,"endTime":1935.716,"body":"full development process."},{"startTime":1935.996,"endTime":1937.476,"body":"You should have been on a bunch of teams."},{"startTime":1937.656,"endTime":1941.421,"body":"You should have seen a bunch of"},{"startTime":1937.656,"endTime":1941.421,"body":"ways where it was a poor operation"},{"startTime":1941.421,"endTime":1945.281,"body":"and a bunch of ways where it was an"},{"startTime":1941.421,"endTime":1945.281,"body":"excellent top tier, top shelf operation."},{"startTime":1945.591,"endTime":1948.451,"body":"And you should be able to coach"},{"startTime":1945.591,"endTime":1948.451,"body":"people through, hey, this is"},{"startTime":1948.451,"endTime":1949.481,"body":"the way the best team does it."},{"startTime":1949.631,"endTime":1954.006,"body":"Let's slowly work you through, we'll work"},{"startTime":1949.631,"endTime":1954.006,"body":"through your problems to get you from , a"},{"startTime":1954.006,"endTime":1958.596,"body":"poorly performing team to an excellent"},{"startTime":1954.006,"endTime":1958.596,"body":"team and, and beyond and keep you there."},{"startTime":1958.606,"endTime":1963.056,"body":"I could reword this question to be a"},{"startTime":1958.606,"endTime":1963.056,"body":"much, much more hard hitting question"},{"startTime":1963.206,"endTime":1967.296,"body":"because the people that I want, if I'm"},{"startTime":1963.206,"endTime":1967.296,"body":"hiring a scrum master, I'm here at Brian"},{"startTime":1967.296,"endTime":1968.866,"body":"and Om's software development company."},{"startTime":1969.016,"endTime":1971.716,"body":"Brian's hiring the scrum masters"},{"startTime":1969.016,"endTime":1971.716,"body":"and Om's hiring the product owners."},{"startTime":1971.726,"endTime":1973.566,"body":"I don't know why we split"},{"startTime":1971.726,"endTime":1973.566,"body":"it up that way I want it."},{"startTime":1973.606,"endTime":1974.366,"body":"That's very weird."},{"startTime":1974.366,"endTime":1975.326,"body":"I don't know why we did that."},{"startTime":1975.421,"endTime":1976.801,"body":"I want scrum masters."},{"startTime":1976.951,"endTime":1980.181,"body":"Who are in the seen it all business."},{"startTime":1980.331,"endTime":1984.366,"body":"I want people who have I've been"},{"startTime":1980.331,"endTime":1984.366,"body":"on 20 teams, people who think that"},{"startTime":1984.366,"endTime":1988.436,"body":"there are commonalities that can be"},{"startTime":1984.366,"endTime":1988.436,"body":"solved in 100 percent of instances."},{"startTime":1988.726,"endTime":1990.916,"body":"They've seen the worst of the worst,"},{"startTime":1988.726,"endTime":1990.916,"body":"they've seen the best of the best."},{"startTime":1990.946,"endTime":1992.636,"body":"That's, that's who I want to hire."},{"startTime":1992.786,"endTime":1993.856,"body":"On my scrum teams."},{"startTime":1993.931,"endTime":1996.791,"body":"Well, given all things"},{"startTime":1993.931,"endTime":1996.791,"body":"considered, definitely you want"},{"startTime":1996.791,"endTime":1998.411,"body":"somebody who has the experience."},{"startTime":1998.561,"endTime":2000.911,"body":"Somebody who's come up through"},{"startTime":1998.561,"endTime":2000.911,"body":"the school of hard knocks because"},{"startTime":2000.911,"endTime":2002.801,"body":"they've seen different environments."},{"startTime":2002.801,"endTime":2006.481,"body":"They've seen different situations"},{"startTime":2002.801,"endTime":2006.481,"body":"and either they've succeeded,"},{"startTime":2006.521,"endTime":2009.301,"body":"struggled, or failed in those"},{"startTime":2006.521,"endTime":2009.301,"body":"situations and learned from that."},{"startTime":2009.321,"endTime":2010.111,"body":"You definitely want that."},{"startTime":2010.111,"endTime":2013.941,"body":"I have an anecdote to share on this"},{"startTime":2010.111,"endTime":2013.941,"body":"topic more on the domestic front."},{"startTime":2014.091,"endTime":2018.291,"body":"I needed to hire a painter to paint a"},{"startTime":2014.091,"endTime":2018.291,"body":"few rooms in my house after I moved in."},{"startTime":2018.441,"endTime":2019.651,"body":"So I built a great paint."},{"startTime":2019.831,"endTime":2022.671,"body":"It was chalky and it was just kind"},{"startTime":2019.831,"endTime":2022.671,"body":"of running right off the walls."},{"startTime":2022.821,"endTime":2025.001,"body":"So, yeah, and it was"},{"startTime":2022.821,"endTime":2025.001,"body":"causing a lot of stain."},{"startTime":2025.001,"endTime":2028.971,"body":"So I looked around and I was trying to"},{"startTime":2025.001,"endTime":2028.971,"body":"figure out who I should hire, right?"},{"startTime":2029.121,"endTime":2031.581,"body":"I mean, I want a person who is..."},{"startTime":2031.731,"endTime":2033.401,"body":"Going to do a great job."},{"startTime":2033.551,"endTime":2035.021,"body":"So, it came down to two people."},{"startTime":2035.361,"endTime":2038.311,"body":"One is a slightly junior person."},{"startTime":2038.461,"endTime":2041.041,"body":"Really hasn't done this kind of work."},{"startTime":2041.381,"endTime":2042.951,"body":"You know, he does small jobs."},{"startTime":2043.101,"endTime":2043.651,"body":"But he was cheap."},{"startTime":2043.801,"endTime":2044.071,"body":"Right?"},{"startTime":2044.081,"endTime":2046.071,"body":"And the other person was experienced."},{"startTime":2046.221,"endTime":2047.101,"body":"But he wasn't cheap."},{"startTime":2047.121,"endTime":2048.901,"body":"And he had done all kinds of painting."},{"startTime":2048.981,"endTime":2050.261,"body":"Indoors, outdoors."},{"startTime":2050.436,"endTime":2052.346,"body":"ceilings, all kinds of murals."},{"startTime":2052.376,"endTime":2055.346,"body":"I mean, this guy didn't just"},{"startTime":2052.376,"endTime":2055.346,"body":"do big roller painting, right?"},{"startTime":2055.566,"endTime":2059.966,"body":"He had, he had skills that I could see"},{"startTime":2055.566,"endTime":2059.966,"body":"in the, in the pictures he showed me."},{"startTime":2060.116,"endTime":2063.076,"body":"So I decided to hire"},{"startTime":2060.116,"endTime":2063.076,"body":"him for the experience."},{"startTime":2063.236,"endTime":2064.846,"body":"And here's how I saw it pay off."},{"startTime":2064.996,"endTime":2068.796,"body":"In my bonus room, I have painted"},{"startTime":2064.996,"endTime":2068.796,"body":"the, the walls where I'm going"},{"startTime":2068.796,"endTime":2070.556,"body":"to have the home theater dark."},{"startTime":2070.706,"endTime":2076.266,"body":"And the other side of the walls is kind"},{"startTime":2070.706,"endTime":2076.266,"body":"of like a, a Pastel gray color, right?"},{"startTime":2076.416,"endTime":2080.236,"body":"But it's one big wall on the front"},{"startTime":2076.416,"endTime":2080.236,"body":"side of it where the screen's gonna be."},{"startTime":2080.566,"endTime":2084.546,"body":"So I needed that wall to be painted"},{"startTime":2080.566,"endTime":2084.546,"body":"in a way where the line was A,"},{"startTime":2084.546,"endTime":2089.496,"body":"straight, between the two colors, and"},{"startTime":2084.546,"endTime":2089.496,"body":"B, a color didn't bleed from one to"},{"startTime":2089.496,"endTime":2090.796,"body":"the other because it looks shoddy."},{"startTime":2090.946,"endTime":2094.736,"body":"Well, the first was, I asked both"},{"startTime":2090.946,"endTime":2094.736,"body":"of them, how would you do this?"},{"startTime":2095.086,"endTime":2098.906,"body":"The first person said, I'd put a piece"},{"startTime":2095.086,"endTime":2098.906,"body":"of tape there, I would do the roll of"},{"startTime":2098.906,"endTime":2101.786,"body":"paint, and then I would move the tape to"},{"startTime":2098.906,"endTime":2101.786,"body":"the other side and I would do it again."},{"startTime":2101.786,"endTime":2103.986,"body":"And I'm thinking, what are"},{"startTime":2101.786,"endTime":2103.986,"body":"the chances of nailing that?"},{"startTime":2104.136,"endTime":2105.856,"body":"The other guy says, I don't use tape."},{"startTime":2106.096,"endTime":2106.856,"body":"I eyeball it."},{"startTime":2107.006,"endTime":2107.676,"body":"And he did."},{"startTime":2107.786,"endTime":2108.946,"body":"I watched him do this."},{"startTime":2109.246,"endTime":2112.636,"body":"He took a paintbrush and he went like"},{"startTime":2109.246,"endTime":2112.636,"body":"this, and it was a straight line."},{"startTime":2112.786,"endTime":2115.066,"body":"That's experience for you,"},{"startTime":2112.786,"endTime":2115.066,"body":"but I paid for that, right?"},{"startTime":2115.296,"endTime":2119.126,"body":"So, I mean, the corollary to this, this"},{"startTime":2115.296,"endTime":2119.126,"body":"conversation, really, you get what you"},{"startTime":2119.126,"endTime":2122.556,"body":"pay for, ultimately, but let's forget"},{"startTime":2119.126,"endTime":2122.556,"body":"about the, the, the payment side."},{"startTime":2122.706,"endTime":2127.316,"body":"A person who has seen various"},{"startTime":2122.706,"endTime":2127.316,"body":"situations in his past is always"},{"startTime":2127.316,"endTime":2128.636,"body":"going to do a better job, right?"},{"startTime":2128.676,"endTime":2132.056,"body":"Because they have that stuff"},{"startTime":2128.676,"endTime":2132.056,"body":"that they can bring to the table."},{"startTime":2132.206,"endTime":2134.726,"body":"Somebody new, they're going"},{"startTime":2132.206,"endTime":2134.726,"body":"to either struggle, they're"},{"startTime":2134.726,"endTime":2135.796,"body":"going to make the wrong calls."},{"startTime":2135.946,"endTime":2136.316,"body":"Right?"},{"startTime":2136.466,"endTime":2139.426,"body":"Or they will simply be"},{"startTime":2136.466,"endTime":2139.426,"body":"laissez faire it, right?"},{"startTime":2139.576,"endTime":2140.966,"body":"One of those three things will happen."},{"startTime":2141.116,"endTime":2144.256,"body":"So yeah, given the choice, you"},{"startTime":2141.116,"endTime":2144.256,"body":"want the experience here, for sure."},{"startTime":2144.331,"endTime":2147.361,"body":"I want to make sure that I nail"},{"startTime":2144.331,"endTime":2147.361,"body":"the takeaway of this story."},{"startTime":2147.371,"endTime":2148.991,"body":"Because I heard a different"},{"startTime":2147.371,"endTime":2148.991,"body":"takeaway from this story."},{"startTime":2148.991,"endTime":2152.946,"body":"What I, the takeaway from this story is"},{"startTime":2148.991,"endTime":2152.946,"body":"I can take a chance and hire a like a"},{"startTime":2152.956,"endTime":2156.636,"body":"newly minted scrum master, as long as"},{"startTime":2152.956,"endTime":2156.636,"body":"they're enthusiastic and they would have"},{"startTime":2156.636,"endTime":2158.336,"body":"the willingness, willingness to learn."},{"startTime":2158.486,"endTime":2162.326,"body":"And I, the employer have the"},{"startTime":2158.486,"endTime":2162.326,"body":"willingness to teach them new things."},{"startTime":2162.596,"endTime":2167.296,"body":"Like we, the relationship potentially"},{"startTime":2162.596,"endTime":2167.296,"body":"has a good potential for success."},{"startTime":2167.441,"endTime":2172.496,"body":"Alternately, I'm willing to pay a scrum"},{"startTime":2167.441,"endTime":2172.496,"body":"master , the medium bucks, like stealing"},{"startTime":2172.496,"endTime":2175.911,"body":"that from the William podcast, pay, pay"},{"startTime":2172.496,"endTime":2175.911,"body":"a scrum master, the medium bucks who's"},{"startTime":2175.921,"endTime":2179.956,"body":"seen some things and potentially has"},{"startTime":2175.921,"endTime":2179.956,"body":"a bunch of these different skill sets."},{"startTime":2180.086,"endTime":2182.576,"body":"Maybe at a generalist level."},{"startTime":2182.586,"endTime":2182.896,"body":"Sure."},{"startTime":2182.986,"endTime":2187.106,"body":"But the BA skill set, scripting"},{"startTime":2182.986,"endTime":2187.106,"body":"skill set, QA skill set."},{"startTime":2187.256,"endTime":2189.716,"body":"So basically they can put hands"},{"startTime":2187.256,"endTime":2189.716,"body":"on a lot of different things."},{"startTime":2189.866,"endTime":2194.586,"body":"But also they're wildly more expensive"},{"startTime":2189.866,"endTime":2194.586,"body":"than you know, my, my newer person."},{"startTime":2194.586,"endTime":2199.806,"body":"So maybe it comes down to what you, you,"},{"startTime":2194.586,"endTime":2199.806,"body":"you get what you pay for in this instance."},{"startTime":2199.866,"endTime":2201.066,"body":"That's absolutely true."},{"startTime":2201.076,"endTime":2202.696,"body":"I think you do get what you pay for."},{"startTime":2202.846,"endTime":2204.466,"body":"So just, just be aware of that."},{"startTime":2204.496,"endTime":2209.056,"body":"You can, there's a lot of people out"},{"startTime":2204.496,"endTime":2209.056,"body":"there of all different skill sets."},{"startTime":2209.206,"endTime":2210.736,"body":"So what do you want?"},{"startTime":2210.736,"endTime":2211.151,"body":"Right?"},{"startTime":2211.301,"endTime":2213.231,"body":"Is keep that resume updated."},{"startTime":2213.231,"endTime":2213.871,"body":"Is that appropriate?"},{"startTime":2213.931,"endTime":2214.791,"body":"That is appropriate."},{"startTime":2214.811,"endTime":2215.091,"body":"Yes."},{"startTime":2215.241,"endTime":2217.901,"body":"Well, this is, I mean we didn't go"},{"startTime":2215.241,"endTime":2217.901,"body":"through every one of these categories,"},{"startTime":2217.901,"endTime":2219.841,"body":"but we, sort of touched on most of them."},{"startTime":2220.191,"endTime":2222.591,"body":"We can, I mean, it's"},{"startTime":2220.191,"endTime":2222.591,"body":"no, well, it's too late."},{"startTime":2222.591,"endTime":2223.631,"body":"It's too late."},{"startTime":2223.681,"endTime":2224.106,"body":"I'm done."},{"startTime":2224.106,"endTime":2224.571,"body":"You're done."},{"startTime":2224.841,"endTime":2225.261,"body":"You're done."},{"startTime":2225.431,"endTime":2228.181,"body":"There was some interesting takeaways"},{"startTime":2225.431,"endTime":2228.181,"body":"in this conversation is like, well,"},{"startTime":2228.181,"endTime":2229.281,"body":"what are you looking to pay for?"},{"startTime":2229.281,"endTime":2232.921,"body":"What are you willing to shoulder on your"},{"startTime":2229.281,"endTime":2232.921,"body":"team from an organization point of view?"},{"startTime":2232.941,"endTime":2233.341,"body":"Yes."},{"startTime":2233.441,"endTime":2233.721,"body":"Right."},{"startTime":2233.721,"endTime":2236.921,"body":"But from a scrum master point"},{"startTime":2233.721,"endTime":2236.921,"body":"of view, the person who's in the"},{"startTime":2236.921,"endTime":2239.621,"body":"hot seat, I think there were a"},{"startTime":2236.921,"endTime":2239.621,"body":"couple of takeaways there too."},{"startTime":2239.881,"endTime":2242.871,"body":"If you don't have the experience,"},{"startTime":2239.881,"endTime":2242.871,"body":"you don't have the experience, right?"},{"startTime":2242.871,"endTime":2244.521,"body":"You can't just buy that."},{"startTime":2244.521,"endTime":2245.171,"body":"So what do you do?"},{"startTime":2245.321,"endTime":2248.461,"body":"Have your eyes and your"},{"startTime":2245.321,"endTime":2248.461,"body":"brain open to learning."},{"startTime":2248.731,"endTime":2250.531,"body":"That's the biggest takeaway for me here."},{"startTime":2250.606,"endTime":2256.256,"body":"I would also expect the, the, the person"},{"startTime":2250.606,"endTime":2256.256,"body":"who is most skilled in facilitation and"},{"startTime":2256.326,"endTime":2261.426,"body":"the, the, the most people person on your"},{"startTime":2256.326,"endTime":2261.426,"body":"team, I would expect to be the scrum"},{"startTime":2261.426,"endTime":2265.396,"body":"master and I would expect to naturally be"},{"startTime":2261.426,"endTime":2265.396,"body":"the most curious, you know what I mean?"},{"startTime":2265.406,"endTime":2267.246,"body":"I was expecting to have"},{"startTime":2265.406,"endTime":2267.246,"body":"that personality type."},{"startTime":2267.396,"endTime":2268.886,"body":"So maybe it really fits."},{"startTime":2269.036,"endTime":2272.406,"body":"And maybe, maybe the, the kind of what"},{"startTime":2269.036,"endTime":2272.406,"body":"we fell into at the end of the podcast"},{"startTime":2272.456,"endTime":2276.771,"body":"of like, well, if you know that your"},{"startTime":2272.456,"endTime":2276.771,"body":"early career one year experience, right?"},{"startTime":2276.781,"endTime":2278.351,"body":"Or whatever, six months experience, right?"},{"startTime":2278.351,"endTime":2280.061,"body":"Or maybe you're only an"},{"startTime":2278.351,"endTime":2280.061,"body":"intern or something like that."},{"startTime":2280.211,"endTime":2282.961,"body":"And you haven't been exposed to all these"},{"startTime":2280.211,"endTime":2282.961,"body":"things and you're searching for jobs."},{"startTime":2282.971,"endTime":2283.811,"body":"You're trying to break through."},{"startTime":2283.811,"endTime":2284.911,"body":"You're trying to get your first job."},{"startTime":2285.061,"endTime":2286.331,"body":"Yes, you don't have these skill sets."},{"startTime":2286.471,"endTime":2290.441,"body":"So, yes, you will be outclassed by these"},{"startTime":2286.471,"endTime":2290.441,"body":"other people who do have the same amount"},{"startTime":2290.441,"endTime":2293.731,"body":"of facilitation skills, same amount of"},{"startTime":2290.441,"endTime":2293.731,"body":"communication skills that you do, but"},{"startTime":2293.731,"endTime":2295.541,"body":"also have this other technical skill set."},{"startTime":2295.626,"endTime":2301.896,"body":"The ability to compete now falls in"},{"startTime":2295.626,"endTime":2301.896,"body":"line with your ability to convince"},{"startTime":2301.896,"endTime":2304.611,"body":"the employer that They're willing"},{"startTime":2301.896,"endTime":2304.611,"body":"to invest in you and that you're"},{"startTime":2304.611,"endTime":2307.191,"body":"willing to turn that investment around"},{"startTime":2304.611,"endTime":2307.191,"body":"and make it profitable for them."},{"startTime":2307.241,"endTime":2308.471,"body":", I do admit it's a tough sell."},{"startTime":2308.621,"endTime":2309.531,"body":"But you know, let's see."},{"startTime":2309.681,"endTime":2310.491,"body":"You can be done."},{"startTime":2310.641,"endTime":2311.781,"body":"It can, absolutely."},{"startTime":2311.781,"endTime":2312.801,"body":"I've seen it being done."},{"startTime":2313.101,"endTime":2313.821,"body":"It can be done."},{"startTime":2313.971,"endTime":2315.801,"body":"The term I use for that is malleability."},{"startTime":2315.811,"endTime":2318.681,"body":"You have to, you have to"},{"startTime":2315.811,"endTime":2318.681,"body":"adopt a level of malleability."},{"startTime":2318.831,"endTime":2319.501,"body":"I don't know how to say that."},{"startTime":2319.741,"endTime":2324.481,"body":"And convince the interviewer that"},{"startTime":2319.741,"endTime":2324.481,"body":"you are willing to change and draw"},{"startTime":2324.481,"endTime":2327.291,"body":"some parallels in the past, no matter"},{"startTime":2324.481,"endTime":2327.291,"body":"how little experience you have."},{"startTime":2327.531,"endTime":2330.581,"body":"I have done this in the past, I"},{"startTime":2327.531,"endTime":2330.581,"body":"am willing to do this, this, and"},{"startTime":2330.581,"endTime":2332.511,"body":"this in these situations, right?"},{"startTime":2332.751,"endTime":2335.741,"body":"That's what's going to get you"},{"startTime":2332.751,"endTime":2335.741,"body":"above the people that just have the"},{"startTime":2335.741,"endTime":2340.881,"body":"experience but perhaps don't have the"},{"startTime":2335.741,"endTime":2340.881,"body":"same level of malleability that any"},{"startTime":2340.881,"endTime":2342.461,"body":"more, because they are jaded like me."},{"startTime":2342.611,"endTime":2342.681,"body":"That's right."},{"startTime":2342.681,"endTime":2342.981,"body":"Alright."},{"startTime":2343.031,"endTime":2344.571,"body":"This is an interesting topic uh like II"},{"startTime":2347.277,"endTime":2350.272,"body":"The jaded side of the argument as well"},{"startTime":2347.277,"endTime":2350.272,"body":"as I could have But that's all right."},{"startTime":2350.332,"endTime":2352.382,"body":"You can Like and subscribe"},{"startTime":2350.332,"endTime":2352.382,"body":"hit us in the comments."},{"startTime":2352.382,"endTime":2353.692,"body":"That's right ring that bell."},{"startTime":2353.952,"endTime":2356.472,"body":"Let us know other topics that"},{"startTime":2353.952,"endTime":2356.472,"body":"you're interested in and we'll"},{"startTime":2356.472,"endTime":2358.332,"body":"be happy to Indulge that's true."}]}