{"version":"1.0.0","segments":[{"startTime":0.0,"endTime":4.669,"body":"We here at Arguing Agile like to"},{"startTime":0.0,"endTime":4.669,"body":"do occasional retrospectives on our"},{"startTime":4.699,"endTime":8.879,"body":"content and talk about what we're doing"},{"startTime":4.699,"endTime":8.879,"body":"well and what we should stop doing."},{"startTime":8.999,"endTime":11.659,"body":"And other than Brian should stop talking"},{"startTime":11.709,"endTime":12.449,"body":"well, it's"},{"startTime":12.449,"endTime":15.619,"body":"the end of the year, so this is"},{"startTime":12.449,"endTime":15.619,"body":"an opportune time to look back and"},{"startTime":15.619,"endTime":18.049,"body":"see what worked and what didn't."},{"startTime":18.149,"endTime":18.679,"body":"That's true."},{"startTime":18.759,"endTime":21.529,"body":"We're looking at the"},{"startTime":18.759,"endTime":21.529,"body":"podcasts that we've done."},{"startTime":21.679,"endTime":27.069,"body":"In some cases, clips, that have received"},{"startTime":21.679,"endTime":27.069,"body":"the most views on YouTube, only using"},{"startTime":27.069,"endTime":30.759,"body":"YouTube in these analytics the audio"},{"startTime":27.069,"endTime":30.759,"body":"product is a little bit different, gives"},{"startTime":30.759,"endTime":32.519,"body":"a little bit different metrics, but"},{"startTime":32.589,"endTime":34.829,"body":"Out of six, arguably seven."},{"startTime":34.979,"endTime":37.939,"body":"Of our most viewed of all time podcasts."},{"startTime":38.089,"endTime":40.869,"body":"We're going to talk about, we're going"},{"startTime":38.089,"endTime":40.869,"body":"to talk about the podcast, and then we're"},{"startTime":40.869,"endTime":45.969,"body":"gonna talk about why we think, why we"},{"startTime":40.869,"endTime":45.969,"body":"think that it, it was it received so well."},{"startTime":46.149,"endTime":50.479,"body":"So the number one most viewed"},{"startTime":46.149,"endTime":50.479,"body":"podcast that we have out there,"},{"startTime":50.569,"endTime":53.419,"body":"or as the younguns might"},{"startTime":50.569,"endTime":53.419,"body":"say, the one that went the"},{"startTime":53.419,"endTime":54.499,"body":"most viral."},{"startTime":54.649,"endTime":55.159,"body":"You're right."},{"startTime":55.219,"endTime":55.459,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":55.609,"endTime":60.859,"body":"I, I think of our of virality"},{"startTime":55.609,"endTime":60.859,"body":"as a, a, a slow steady burn."},{"startTime":61.009,"endTime":62.159,"body":"Over many, many years."},{"startTime":62.309,"endTime":63.149,"body":"Yep, that's true."},{"startTime":63.179,"endTime":66.029,"body":"Sorry, I can't, I should"},{"startTime":63.179,"endTime":66.029,"body":"never say Virality ever again."},{"startTime":66.029,"endTime":66.309,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":66.459,"endTime":72.029,"body":"The, the episode number 17, it was the"},{"startTime":66.459,"endTime":72.029,"body":"Scrum Master's role in release planning."},{"startTime":72.379,"endTime":72.839,"body":"Ooh,"},{"startTime":72.879,"endTime":74.959,"body":"so that was quite early"},{"startTime":72.879,"endTime":74.959,"body":"on, actually, number"},{"startTime":74.959,"endTime":75.559,"body":"17."},{"startTime":75.599,"endTime":79.779,"body":"I was not even editing, so it"},{"startTime":75.599,"endTime":79.779,"body":"was really remarkably terrible."},{"startTime":79.809,"endTime":80.649,"body":"Rough and raw."},{"startTime":80.699,"endTime":80.849,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":80.849,"endTime":80.979,"body":"As"},{"startTime":80.979,"endTime":81.579,"body":"it was."},{"startTime":81.759,"endTime":82.769,"body":"And this wasn't a clip."},{"startTime":82.769,"endTime":84.339,"body":"This was the full, the full."},{"startTime":84.489,"endTime":85.359,"body":"Podcast, right?"},{"startTime":85.364,"endTime":85.404,"body":"Mm-Hmm."},{"startTime":85.489,"endTime":85.539,"body":". Mm-Hmm."},{"startTime":85.689,"endTime":89.239,"body":". So, I mean, look, one of the things"},{"startTime":85.689,"endTime":89.239,"body":"that we pride ourselves on is touching"},{"startTime":89.239,"endTime":91.339,"body":"on subjects that other podcasts don't."},{"startTime":91.489,"endTime":93.279,"body":"And this is one of 'em, right?"},{"startTime":93.329,"endTime":96.839,"body":"The Scrum Master's role in"},{"startTime":93.329,"endTime":96.839,"body":"release planning and deployment."},{"startTime":96.839,"endTime":96.899,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":96.959,"endTime":102.029,"body":"I haven't seen that addressed in other"},{"startTime":96.959,"endTime":102.029,"body":"podcasts since then, even really."},{"startTime":102.149,"endTime":105.439,"body":"Although I don't necessarily profess"},{"startTime":102.149,"endTime":105.439,"body":"to know all the podcasts out there."},{"startTime":105.469,"endTime":105.619,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":105.739,"endTime":108.38,"body":"But I, I suspect I have"},{"startTime":105.739,"endTime":108.38,"body":"some recollection of this."},{"startTime":108.53,"endTime":112.88,"body":"I suspect it's because scrum"},{"startTime":108.53,"endTime":112.88,"body":"masters themselves find themselves"},{"startTime":112.88,"endTime":118.06,"body":"involved somehow, and they don't"},{"startTime":112.88,"endTime":118.06,"body":"have any support for this particular"},{"startTime":118.11,"endTime":119.5,"body":"aspect of their work anywhere."},{"startTime":119.65,"endTime":123.82,"body":"So that's kind of Delving into it has"},{"startTime":119.65,"endTime":123.82,"body":"to be something of interest to the"},{"startTime":123.85,"endTime":127.69,"body":"Scrum Masters, which probably is the"},{"startTime":123.85,"endTime":127.69,"body":"reason why this was the number one."},{"startTime":127.92,"endTime":130.66,"body":"I put up , our notes from that"},{"startTime":127.92,"endTime":130.66,"body":"session here on the screen."},{"startTime":130.89,"endTime":136.27,"body":"I think probably a lot of Scrum Masters"},{"startTime":130.89,"endTime":136.27,"body":"get asked to help in release planning,"},{"startTime":136.42,"endTime":138.63,"body":"either release planning or release notes."},{"startTime":138.78,"endTime":139.13,"body":"Right?"},{"startTime":139.2,"endTime":143.54,"body":"At least release notes, or maybe,"},{"startTime":139.2,"endTime":143.54,"body":"maybe even part of the, what I think"},{"startTime":143.54,"endTime":147.24,"body":"is a more powerful way to help in"},{"startTime":143.54,"endTime":147.24,"body":"release planning is stakeholder"},{"startTime":147.25,"endTime":148.83,"body":"communication when a release goes out."},{"startTime":148.83,"endTime":152.85,"body":"Hey you know, we put this release out,"},{"startTime":148.83,"endTime":152.85,"body":"maybe we need to get stakeholders together"},{"startTime":152.86,"endTime":156.89,"body":"to review the release, or maybe we need"},{"startTime":152.86,"endTime":156.89,"body":"to, do the demonstration to the users."},{"startTime":157.04,"endTime":159.52,"body":"Scrum Master can help"},{"startTime":157.04,"endTime":159.52,"body":"a lot with that stuff."},{"startTime":159.67,"endTime":161.34,"body":"Like, there's a lot of that in here,"},{"startTime":161.43,"endTime":165.79,"body":"we even have a chapter heading called"},{"startTime":161.43,"endTime":165.79,"body":"Backup or Redundant Communicator, right?"},{"startTime":165.99,"endTime":168.73,"body":"Which I will tell you, I rely on"},{"startTime":165.99,"endTime":168.73,"body":"my Scrum Masters as, as a product"},{"startTime":168.73,"endTime":172.81,"body":"manager a lot of I'm, I like, I'm"},{"startTime":168.73,"endTime":172.81,"body":"moving a million miles a minute."},{"startTime":172.96,"endTime":176.24,"body":"It would really be helpful if the"},{"startTime":172.96,"endTime":176.24,"body":"Scrum Master can help with that."},{"startTime":176.39,"endTime":180.86,"body":"Customer communication to let them"},{"startTime":176.39,"endTime":180.86,"body":"know, Hey, we're about to put out a"},{"startTime":180.86,"endTime":183.24,"body":"release and here's what you can expect."},{"startTime":183.58,"endTime":187.35,"body":"And then when the release is out to"},{"startTime":183.58,"endTime":187.35,"body":"get some customers lined up for us"},{"startTime":187.35,"endTime":191.43,"body":"to kind of walk through together and"},{"startTime":187.35,"endTime":191.43,"body":"watch how they receive the features."},{"startTime":191.8,"endTime":198.257,"body":"I would appreciate assistance when it"},{"startTime":191.8,"endTime":198.257,"body":"comes to that stakeholder communication"},{"startTime":198.407,"endTime":203.357,"body":"so that we can jump to get stakeholder"},{"startTime":198.407,"endTime":203.357,"body":"collaboration for our releases."},{"startTime":203.697,"endTime":206.167,"body":"Yeah, I think there's a couple"},{"startTime":203.697,"endTime":206.167,"body":"of other areas that are kind of"},{"startTime":206.167,"endTime":207.457,"body":"allied to what you were saying."},{"startTime":207.467,"endTime":212.197,"body":"I mean, some in some organizations"},{"startTime":207.467,"endTime":212.197,"body":"that communication out to customers"},{"startTime":212.287,"endTime":216.567,"body":"is responsible is the responsibility"},{"startTime":212.287,"endTime":216.567,"body":"of a separate matrix group,"},{"startTime":216.817,"endTime":218.477,"body":"perhaps like change management."},{"startTime":218.627,"endTime":221.577,"body":"So there's still coordination"},{"startTime":218.627,"endTime":221.577,"body":"needed who feeds them right?"},{"startTime":221.847,"endTime":224.917,"body":"And it's not just before"},{"startTime":221.847,"endTime":224.917,"body":"the release going out."},{"startTime":224.937,"endTime":227.337,"body":"It's well before it's"},{"startTime":224.937,"endTime":227.337,"body":"coming out in person."},{"startTime":227.487,"endTime":231.757,"body":"60 days, 30 days this weekend, and then"},{"startTime":227.487,"endTime":231.757,"body":"after it's happened, here's what we've"},{"startTime":231.757,"endTime":233.877,"body":"just done and then follow up, right?"},{"startTime":234.177,"endTime":236.657,"body":"Whether it was a success, to"},{"startTime":234.177,"endTime":236.657,"body":"what degree, how many people"},{"startTime":236.667,"endTime":238.247,"body":"used this new feature, and so on."},{"startTime":238.547,"endTime":242.917,"body":"So, the, the, it's, I'm yes handing you,"},{"startTime":238.547,"endTime":242.917,"body":"basically saying the Scrum Master could"},{"startTime":242.917,"endTime":247.217,"body":"be the linchpin here, communicating with,"},{"startTime":242.917,"endTime":247.217,"body":"in this case, a change management group."},{"startTime":247.367,"endTime":251.607,"body":"The actual mechanics of the deployment,"},{"startTime":247.367,"endTime":251.607,"body":"going to that second half of the,"},{"startTime":251.757,"endTime":254.567,"body":"the title of the podcast, right,"},{"startTime":251.757,"endTime":254.567,"body":"which is Scrum Master's Role in"},{"startTime":254.717,"endTime":256.777,"body":"Release planning and deployment."},{"startTime":256.797,"endTime":262.337,"body":"So in some organizations, you need to do"},{"startTime":256.797,"endTime":262.337,"body":"some mechanical tasks basically that are"},{"startTime":262.437,"endTime":264.637,"body":"self imposed on the organizational front."},{"startTime":264.787,"endTime":269.487,"body":"But these are, these are stage gates"},{"startTime":264.787,"endTime":269.487,"body":"like having to open a ticket to do"},{"startTime":269.487,"endTime":273.507,"body":"the deployment, which is done by"},{"startTime":269.487,"endTime":273.507,"body":"some other group again creating RFCs"},{"startTime":273.507,"endTime":276.507,"body":"and and and the like, so the scrum"},{"startTime":273.507,"endTime":276.507,"body":"masters can help there as well."},{"startTime":276.657,"endTime":279.007,"body":"I've kind of been on both"},{"startTime":276.657,"endTime":279.007,"body":"sides of the fence here, right?"},{"startTime":279.057,"endTime":283.097,"body":"As a scrum master, a long time ago,"},{"startTime":279.057,"endTime":283.097,"body":"I was asked to write the RFCs, but"},{"startTime":283.097,"endTime":284.587,"body":"they were very technical in nature."},{"startTime":284.587,"endTime":287.597,"body":"So all I would be doing is getting"},{"startTime":284.587,"endTime":287.597,"body":"in the way, asking the tech"},{"startTime":287.597,"endTime":289.087,"body":"lead a whole bunch of questions."},{"startTime":289.237,"endTime":294.677,"body":"So we ended up abstracting what was in"},{"startTime":289.237,"endTime":294.677,"body":"the actual RFC into some simpler form."},{"startTime":294.677,"endTime":295.307,"body":"Two or three."},{"startTime":295.457,"endTime":299.297,"body":"Fields on a Google form and ask the tech"},{"startTime":295.457,"endTime":299.297,"body":"lead to fill those out all of the other"},{"startTime":299.407,"endTime":303.267,"body":"mechanical stuff, which environment"},{"startTime":299.407,"endTime":303.267,"body":"we're going to, et cetera, et cetera."},{"startTime":303.417,"endTime":305.147,"body":"You know, has it been tested in lowers?"},{"startTime":305.157,"endTime":305.567,"body":"So on?"},{"startTime":305.717,"endTime":308.897,"body":"I took care of that as a scrum master"},{"startTime":305.717,"endTime":308.897,"body":"because it freed up the tech lead again."},{"startTime":308.897,"endTime":310.887,"body":"It has nothing to do with product"},{"startTime":308.897,"endTime":310.887,"body":"at that point, because the"},{"startTime":310.887,"endTime":313.867,"body":"decision is already made ahead of"},{"startTime":310.887,"endTime":313.867,"body":"time that we are launching this."},{"startTime":313.867,"endTime":317.107,"body":"So yeah, there's a lot that"},{"startTime":313.867,"endTime":317.107,"body":"scrum master can do in terms of"},{"startTime":317.317,"endTime":319.827,"body":"facilitation off all of these things."},{"startTime":319.827,"endTime":319.847,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":319.997,"endTime":321.947,"body":"We've got probably about 15 topics here."},{"startTime":322.097,"endTime":322.357,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":322.357,"endTime":322.607,"body":"One"},{"startTime":322.867,"endTime":323.177,"body":"podcast."},{"startTime":323.177,"endTime":325.277,"body":"There really was, there really was a lot."},{"startTime":325.297,"endTime":327.477,"body":"It really was a tour de force of topics."},{"startTime":327.477,"endTime":327.917,"body":"Tour de force."},{"startTime":327.967,"endTime":331.967,"body":"the non helpful thing in here is for"},{"startTime":327.967,"endTime":331.967,"body":"the Scrum Master to be like the, the"},{"startTime":331.967,"endTime":335.887,"body":"person who in large organizations"},{"startTime":331.967,"endTime":335.887,"body":"goes around the organization to submit"},{"startTime":335.917,"endTime":339.567,"body":"all the forms and all the like, oh,"},{"startTime":335.917,"endTime":339.567,"body":"you got to let this team know this is"},{"startTime":339.577,"endTime":342.777,"body":"happening and you got to queue yourself"},{"startTime":339.577,"endTime":342.777,"body":"up for this approval or whatever."},{"startTime":342.777,"endTime":342.857,"body":"Right."},{"startTime":342.857,"endTime":344.447,"body":"Like, I, I don't think that's."},{"startTime":344.552,"endTime":345.632,"body":"That's the helpful part of this."},{"startTime":345.632,"endTime":349.472,"body":"I think the helpful part of this"},{"startTime":345.632,"endTime":349.472,"body":"podcast, Scrum Master role in"},{"startTime":349.482,"endTime":353.352,"body":"release planning is all the things"},{"startTime":349.482,"endTime":353.352,"body":"that get you to the release."},{"startTime":353.632,"endTime":357.692,"body":"The feature mapping and the planning"},{"startTime":353.632,"endTime":357.692,"body":"of what stories go into what release"},{"startTime":357.912,"endTime":361.622,"body":"and the lining up of stakeholders"},{"startTime":357.912,"endTime":361.622,"body":"for that release to make sure"},{"startTime":361.622,"endTime":362.952,"body":"that they're available, right?"},{"startTime":362.952,"endTime":366.522,"body":"Cause you can sit down with your product"},{"startTime":362.952,"endTime":366.522,"body":"people and say, these are the most."},{"startTime":366.672,"endTime":371.212,"body":"These are the most valuable features, we"},{"startTime":366.672,"endTime":371.212,"body":"all agree, maybe you have some kind of"},{"startTime":371.362,"endTime":377.272,"body":"prioritization or framework or something"},{"startTime":371.362,"endTime":377.272,"body":"in place and but then you can never get"},{"startTime":377.302,"endTime":381.062,"body":"those users on the phone and they you can"},{"startTime":377.302,"endTime":381.062,"body":"never, so it's like, we all agree they're"},{"startTime":381.072,"endTime":385.602,"body":"the most important, but also those users"},{"startTime":381.072,"endTime":385.602,"body":"are like, yeah, yeah, they're difficult."},{"startTime":385.662,"endTime":385.932,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":386.082,"endTime":386.862,"body":"Yeah, I agree."},{"startTime":387.102,"endTime":391.712,"body":"It says the Scrum Master is rolling"},{"startTime":387.102,"endTime":391.712,"body":"in releases But even if you're playing"},{"startTime":391.712,"endTime":394.902,"body":"the role part time, you're a developer"},{"startTime":391.712,"endTime":394.902,"body":"on the team, and you're playing the"},{"startTime":394.902,"endTime":398.832,"body":"role of the scrum master carve out"},{"startTime":394.902,"endTime":398.832,"body":"some of your time to try to do, these"},{"startTime":398.842,"endTime":402.352,"body":"mainly communication based tasks."},{"startTime":402.502,"endTime":403.362,"body":"They're absolutely critical."},{"startTime":403.622,"endTime":404.432,"body":"Because they're critical, yeah."},{"startTime":404.582,"endTime":408.422,"body":"Because you can easily not take"},{"startTime":404.582,"endTime":408.422,"body":"responsibility in this situation to be"},{"startTime":408.422,"endTime":411.842,"body":"like, well that's a product, that's a"},{"startTime":408.422,"endTime":411.842,"body":"product's job, that's a product's job."},{"startTime":411.992,"endTime":413.322,"body":"You know, that's not my job."},{"startTime":413.322,"endTime":414.982,"body":"I easily could see that."},{"startTime":415.312,"endTime":419.412,"body":"And honestly, that probably in a matrix"},{"startTime":415.312,"endTime":419.412,"body":"organization where you work for a"},{"startTime":419.412,"endTime":421.582,"body":"developer, that probably would fly."},{"startTime":421.592,"endTime":423.002,"body":"You probably would get away with that."},{"startTime":423.152,"endTime":423.712,"body":"Yeah, I agree."},{"startTime":423.712,"endTime":426.422,"body":"I think but you know,"},{"startTime":423.712,"endTime":426.422,"body":"as a behavior, right?"},{"startTime":426.582,"endTime":428.402,"body":"It's actually not a good thing to say."},{"startTime":428.402,"endTime":429.322,"body":"That's not my job."},{"startTime":429.472,"endTime":432.662,"body":"You don't have to necessarily"},{"startTime":429.472,"endTime":432.662,"body":"carve out time every, I don't"},{"startTime":432.662,"endTime":434.042,"body":"know, every sprint or whatever."},{"startTime":434.082,"endTime":436.762,"body":"This could be as and when,"},{"startTime":434.082,"endTime":436.762,"body":"depending on when the releases that."},{"startTime":436.812,"endTime":439.017,"body":"And then the other thing is,"},{"startTime":436.812,"endTime":439.017,"body":"if you're playing the role."},{"startTime":439.347,"endTime":441.707,"body":"If you're on the team and you're not"},{"startTime":439.347,"endTime":441.707,"body":"a, you're not a scrum master, you're"},{"startTime":441.707,"endTime":445.297,"body":"playing the role, say you're a tester"},{"startTime":441.707,"endTime":445.297,"body":"or developer, you can rotate that."},{"startTime":445.337,"endTime":445.557,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":445.797,"endTime":447.287,"body":"It doesn't have to be one person."},{"startTime":447.437,"endTime":447.697,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":447.697,"endTime":451.117,"body":"I I'm thinking of a world where"},{"startTime":447.697,"endTime":451.117,"body":"you, you rotate the role of scrum"},{"startTime":451.117,"endTime":453.837,"body":"master and then you just happen to."},{"startTime":454.147,"endTime":457.877,"body":"Throw the unlucky dice and come up"},{"startTime":454.147,"endTime":457.877,"body":"where we're putting out a release"},{"startTime":457.907,"endTime":460.527,"body":"like I think of like large companies"},{"startTime":457.907,"endTime":460.527,"body":"But they don't put a release out"},{"startTime":460.817,"endTime":462.327,"body":"every every week or whatever."},{"startTime":462.327,"endTime":466.377,"body":"They're you know, or every day let alone"},{"startTime":462.327,"endTime":466.377,"body":"it's like I don't know if I brought"},{"startTime":466.377,"endTime":470.902,"body":"it up in this podcast,  I Often have"},{"startTime":466.377,"endTime":470.902,"body":"been on teams where they release As"},{"startTime":470.902,"endTime":475.332,"body":"soon as it's done with a story and"},{"startTime":470.902,"endTime":475.332,"body":"they have good solid CICD practices"},{"startTime":475.332,"endTime":476.902,"body":"and it goes to production immediately."},{"startTime":477.132,"endTime":481.532,"body":"So there's really no reason to like"},{"startTime":477.132,"endTime":481.532,"body":"coordinate a big bang release or"},{"startTime":481.732,"endTime":484.512,"body":"send them all to stage as soon as"},{"startTime":481.732,"endTime":484.512,"body":"they're done, but then hold them all"},{"startTime":484.512,"endTime":488.347,"body":"on stage until some big corporate"},{"startTime":484.512,"endTime":488.347,"body":"person gives us a big corporate thing."},{"startTime":488.487,"endTime":490.767,"body":"Thumbs up with their big"},{"startTime":488.487,"endTime":490.767,"body":"corporate thumb or whatever."},{"startTime":490.797,"endTime":492.277,"body":"I don't know what a"},{"startTime":490.797,"endTime":492.277,"body":"corporate thumb is, but"},{"startTime":492.427,"endTime":494.347,"body":"that's just incurring a"},{"startTime":492.427,"endTime":494.347,"body":"holding cost the whole time,"},{"startTime":494.367,"endTime":494.637,"body":"right, right."},{"startTime":494.767,"endTime":499.257,"body":"I'm cutting way ahead, but Airbnb, like"},{"startTime":494.767,"endTime":499.257,"body":"in the, in the Brian Chesky interview,"},{"startTime":499.257,"endTime":503.037,"body":"he said that they did this, they, they"},{"startTime":499.257,"endTime":503.037,"body":"held the releases so that they could"},{"startTime":503.157,"endTime":507.337,"body":"like build up a lot of marketing and"},{"startTime":503.157,"endTime":507.337,"body":"build up a lot of anticipation and"},{"startTime":507.337,"endTime":512.027,"body":"feel like they were making a big splash"},{"startTime":507.337,"endTime":512.027,"body":"when they released every twice a year"},{"startTime":512.027,"endTime":514.677,"body":"or something like, I don't remember"},{"startTime":512.027,"endTime":514.677,"body":"how often they released twice a year,"},{"startTime":514.677,"endTime":519.257,"body":"four times a year, I don't remember,"},{"startTime":514.677,"endTime":519.257,"body":"but they held the individual releases."},{"startTime":519.407,"endTime":523.347,"body":"On purpose, so they can make a big"},{"startTime":519.407,"endTime":523.347,"body":"splash and build a big marketing"},{"startTime":523.367,"endTime":524.867,"body":"thing around their releases."},{"startTime":524.947,"endTime":526.987,"body":"So, Apple comes to mind right away, right?"},{"startTime":527.137,"endTime":527.527,"body":"Sure, yeah."},{"startTime":527.527,"endTime":530.477,"body":"They bring out a phone every year or two"},{"startTime":527.527,"endTime":530.477,"body":"years or whatever and they hold that."},{"startTime":530.627,"endTime":533.537,"body":"But the date is already"},{"startTime":530.627,"endTime":533.537,"body":"decided up front, right?"},{"startTime":533.717,"endTime":536.397,"body":"You know, September 12th,"},{"startTime":533.717,"endTime":536.397,"body":"the new iPhone's coming out."},{"startTime":536.407,"endTime":537.847,"body":"iPhone 84 or whatever."},{"startTime":537.987,"endTime":541.127,"body":"So, that's another example"},{"startTime":537.987,"endTime":541.127,"body":"of how that can be done."},{"startTime":541.277,"endTime":545.477,"body":"But, releases here, they don't have"},{"startTime":541.277,"endTime":545.477,"body":"to be GA, they can be internal."},{"startTime":545.777,"endTime":549.487,"body":"So I know in Apple's case that"},{"startTime":545.777,"endTime":549.487,"body":"they have releases internal like"},{"startTime":549.487,"endTime":553.717,"body":"in the case of Airbnb too, I"},{"startTime":549.487,"endTime":553.717,"body":"imagine where internally a team is"},{"startTime":553.717,"endTime":555.457,"body":"releasing something to another team."},{"startTime":555.747,"endTime":559.367,"body":"IOS could be being released, a camera"},{"startTime":555.747,"endTime":559.367,"body":"module could be being released, etc."},{"startTime":559.377,"endTime":562.037,"body":"But the whole product"},{"startTime":559.377,"endTime":562.037,"body":"isn't until a certain time."},{"startTime":562.187,"endTime":562.357,"body":"Right."},{"startTime":562.507,"endTime":564.057,"body":"You bring up a great point."},{"startTime":564.302,"endTime":568.392,"body":"About Apple because whoever's in"},{"startTime":564.302,"endTime":568.392,"body":"the role at that point could know"},{"startTime":568.412,"endTime":572.002,"body":"that we have several features"},{"startTime":568.412,"endTime":572.002,"body":"that are in the micro releases."},{"startTime":572.022,"endTime":575.422,"body":"Like if you're going to go with the,"},{"startTime":572.022,"endTime":575.422,"body":"the, the, the public release versus"},{"startTime":575.432,"endTime":579.982,"body":"the internal quote release, I guess,"},{"startTime":575.432,"endTime":579.982,"body":"in, in, in terms of Apple, I have to"},{"startTime":580.072,"endTime":584.472,"body":"suspect that they know what features"},{"startTime":580.072,"endTime":584.472,"body":"are being introduced and they're"},{"startTime":584.612,"endTime":586.082,"body":"testing them and releasing them."},{"startTime":586.232,"endTime":589.842,"body":"Even though Apple's choosing not to"},{"startTime":586.232,"endTime":589.842,"body":"send them out to the public, they"},{"startTime":589.842,"endTime":591.772,"body":"know that these features are coming."},{"startTime":591.922,"endTime":595.242,"body":"So, I would expect that Again, if we're"},{"startTime":591.922,"endTime":595.242,"body":"talking about the scrum master's role"},{"startTime":595.242,"endTime":599.872,"body":"in release planning, the scrum master"},{"startTime":595.242,"endTime":599.872,"body":"then serves as a communication conduit"},{"startTime":599.892,"endTime":603.532,"body":"to, I don't know, sales, marketing,"},{"startTime":599.892,"endTime":603.532,"body":"whoever else, whoever those consuming"},{"startTime":603.532,"endTime":607.622,"body":"teams are at that point in the game,"},{"startTime":603.532,"endTime":607.622,"body":"to say, let me make sure that you"},{"startTime":607.622,"endTime":609.922,"body":"know exactly what features are coming."},{"startTime":609.922,"endTime":613.272,"body":"Let me make sure you don't get"},{"startTime":609.922,"endTime":613.272,"body":"skipped or you miss anything."},{"startTime":613.322,"endTime":616.482,"body":"So there'd be regular touch points"},{"startTime":613.322,"endTime":616.482,"body":"or regular releases or demo, or"},{"startTime":616.482,"endTime":618.572,"body":"maybe internal demos, not quite sure."},{"startTime":618.692,"endTime":621.692,"body":"maybe a reason why this is like the"},{"startTime":618.692,"endTime":621.692,"body":"number one most viewed podcast is,"},{"startTime":621.842,"endTime":627.832,"body":"the Scrum Master can add a lot of"},{"startTime":621.842,"endTime":627.832,"body":"value by saying, hey, I can serve as"},{"startTime":627.832,"endTime":631.102,"body":"a bridge to connect with these other"},{"startTime":627.832,"endTime":631.102,"body":"teams, and then kind of walk around"},{"startTime":631.102,"endTime":632.672,"body":"the organization to figure out how."},{"startTime":632.822,"endTime":635.462,"body":"And when they should connect"},{"startTime":632.822,"endTime":635.462,"body":"with those other teams."},{"startTime":635.602,"endTime":636.112,"body":"Absolutely."},{"startTime":636.112,"endTime":636.462,"body":"And bring"},{"startTime":636.462,"endTime":637.342,"body":"feedback back"},{"startTime":637.442,"endTime":637.892,"body":"to the team."},{"startTime":637.892,"endTime":638.352,"body":"You're right."},{"startTime":638.352,"endTime":638.512,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":638.632,"endTime":638.812,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":638.812,"endTime":639.062,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":639.262,"endTime":642.222,"body":"And keep expanding that circle"},{"startTime":639.262,"endTime":642.222,"body":"to make sure that the team's"},{"startTime":642.262,"endTime":645.087,"body":"influence keeps growing and growing"},{"startTime":642.262,"endTime":645.087,"body":"the team's influence and the."},{"startTime":645.177,"endTime":647.267,"body":"Communication and that kind"},{"startTime":645.177,"endTime":647.267,"body":"of stuff keeps growing."},{"startTime":647.467,"endTime":651.057,"body":"that would be a cool podcast to"},{"startTime":647.467,"endTime":651.057,"body":"just completely revisit in and"},{"startTime":651.087,"endTime":653.017,"body":"of itself just release planning."},{"startTime":653.317,"endTime":655.157,"body":"Let's put that on the to do list."},{"startTime":655.257,"endTime":661.617,"body":"In the number two spot for podcasts is"},{"startTime":655.257,"endTime":661.617,"body":"acceptance criteria in user stories for"},{"startTime":661.617,"endTime":664.937,"body":"us acceptance criteria in User stories."},{"startTime":665.157,"endTime":669.202,"body":"This is a super interesting one to"},{"startTime":665.157,"endTime":669.202,"body":"be in the number two spot because"},{"startTime":669.352,"endTime":675.562,"body":"because of its tactical nature, it's"},{"startTime":669.352,"endTime":675.562,"body":"a very in the weeds in depth Hey,"},{"startTime":675.562,"endTime":677.402,"body":"let's talk about acceptance criteria."},{"startTime":677.552,"endTime":681.762,"body":"When we do podcast topics, I often"},{"startTime":677.552,"endTime":681.762,"body":"think of like, I want to talk about."},{"startTime":681.912,"endTime":684.702,"body":"Systemic problems, like"},{"startTime":681.912,"endTime":684.702,"body":"problems with the systems."},{"startTime":684.852,"endTime":688.102,"body":"But then sometimes I want to talk"},{"startTime":684.852,"endTime":688.102,"body":"about like real, like how I do"},{"startTime":688.142,"endTime":691.932,"body":"things as a product manager and"},{"startTime":688.142,"endTime":691.932,"body":"form a core practice, core practice,"},{"startTime":692.202,"endTime":694.082,"body":"how I do real nitty gritty stuff."},{"startTime":694.342,"endTime":697.152,"body":"This was one of those, like how"},{"startTime":694.342,"endTime":697.152,"body":"I do real nitty gritty stuff."},{"startTime":697.152,"endTime":701.502,"body":"how I work acceptance criteria into"},{"startTime":697.152,"endTime":701.502,"body":"my stories and how I get the team"},{"startTime":701.582,"endTime":703.742,"body":"thinking about acceptance criteria."},{"startTime":704.002,"endTime":708.362,"body":"And I'm, I'm, I'm not really shocked, but"},{"startTime":704.002,"endTime":708.362,"body":"I, I am surprised that this is the number"},{"startTime":708.362,"endTime":710.532,"body":"two most view viewed podcasts that we"},{"startTime":710.532,"endTime":710.862,"body":"have."},{"startTime":710.922,"endTime":713.012,"body":"Well, this, this was"},{"startTime":710.922,"endTime":713.012,"body":"a full podcast, right?"},{"startTime":713.032,"endTime":714.132,"body":"Over an hour long."},{"startTime":714.242,"endTime":717.092,"body":"And we have sub topics within this."},{"startTime":717.262,"endTime":720.532,"body":"We have, I don't know, 20 or"},{"startTime":717.262,"endTime":720.532,"body":"so, I'm guessing at a glance."},{"startTime":720.612,"endTime":722.682,"body":"That there's a lot into this podcast."},{"startTime":722.832,"endTime":724.822,"body":"I also think that over the years."},{"startTime":724.937,"endTime":728.267,"body":"This is something that just"},{"startTime":724.937,"endTime":728.267,"body":"repeatedly keeps coming up for"},{"startTime":728.307,"endTime":733.897,"body":"definition or not abiding to a C's"},{"startTime":728.307,"endTime":733.897,"body":"or just doing them as you know."},{"startTime":733.937,"endTime":735.627,"body":"Oh, we're checking a box, right?"},{"startTime":735.627,"endTime":737.227,"body":"We create them and then"},{"startTime":735.627,"endTime":737.227,"body":"we forget about them."},{"startTime":737.227,"endTime":738.037,"body":"Those sorts of things."},{"startTime":738.037,"endTime":740.797,"body":"There's many different"},{"startTime":738.037,"endTime":740.797,"body":"anomalies that we tackled here."},{"startTime":740.947,"endTime":742.747,"body":"You know, I'm just"},{"startTime":740.947,"endTime":742.747,"body":"looking at the list here."},{"startTime":742.747,"endTime":743.597,"body":"Scope creep."},{"startTime":743.827,"endTime":745.117,"body":"I mean, there's a lot here."},{"startTime":745.267,"endTime":749.477,"body":"We also, we walk the line of yes,"},{"startTime":745.267,"endTime":749.477,"body":"we can define these up front."},{"startTime":749.707,"endTime":752.767,"body":"And then when the team gets into"},{"startTime":749.707,"endTime":752.767,"body":"it, they might learn something"},{"startTime":752.847,"endTime":755.307,"body":"and what happens now, right?"},{"startTime":755.507,"endTime":758.417,"body":"Because oftentimes people say, well,"},{"startTime":755.507,"endTime":758.417,"body":"no, that's a different story now"},{"startTime":758.437,"endTime":762.567,"body":"because it doesn't meet the AC because"},{"startTime":758.437,"endTime":762.567,"body":"you're just so pedantic about the ACs."},{"startTime":762.647,"endTime":765.497,"body":"Whereas I think in this"},{"startTime":762.647,"endTime":765.497,"body":"podcast, we talked about how."},{"startTime":765.647,"endTime":769.667,"body":"It should be fine, based on the new"},{"startTime":765.647,"endTime":769.667,"body":"learnings, to go update your research."},{"startTime":769.717,"endTime":770.087,"body":"Sure."},{"startTime":770.327,"endTime":770.607,"body":"Right?"},{"startTime":770.617,"endTime":770.907,"body":"Sure."},{"startTime":771.147,"endTime":778.287,"body":"I often will describe acceptance criteria"},{"startTime":771.147,"endTime":778.287,"body":"to my teams as if I were demoing the story"},{"startTime":778.607,"endTime":781.417,"body":"to the user that is named in the story."},{"startTime":781.567,"endTime":783.177,"body":"First of all, I guess"},{"startTime":781.567,"endTime":783.177,"body":"that's an assumption, right?"},{"startTime":783.177,"endTime":787.027,"body":"Do you have a, you have a persona and that"},{"startTime":783.177,"endTime":787.027,"body":"persona is represented by a person and"},{"startTime":787.027,"endTime":788.887,"body":"that person will be at your sprint review."},{"startTime":789.037,"endTime":793.617,"body":"But if, if I am demoing the"},{"startTime":789.037,"endTime":793.617,"body":"story to an individual, no matter"},{"startTime":793.617,"endTime":795.787,"body":"what the individual the, the."},{"startTime":796.087,"endTime":799.917,"body":"Acceptance Criteria will be the"},{"startTime":796.087,"endTime":799.917,"body":"checklist of the demonstration."},{"startTime":800.107,"endTime":803.347,"body":"I will walk through Acceptance"},{"startTime":800.107,"endTime":803.347,"body":"Criteria 1, and then I'll walk through"},{"startTime":803.357,"endTime":806.147,"body":"Acceptance Criteria 2, and then"},{"startTime":803.357,"endTime":806.147,"body":"Acceptance Criteria 3, and hopefully"},{"startTime":806.147,"endTime":808.727,"body":"there's not a lot of, hopefully"},{"startTime":806.147,"endTime":808.727,"body":"there's not 20 Acceptance Criteria."},{"startTime":808.877,"endTime":810.967,"body":"Like, I don't know if, I don't"},{"startTime":808.877,"endTime":810.967,"body":"know if that was in this podcast,"},{"startTime":810.997,"endTime":814.397,"body":"but but, hopefully there there's"},{"startTime":810.997,"endTime":814.397,"body":"a single digit number of AC."},{"startTime":814.397,"endTime":816.097,"body":"Hopefully it's five or less, right?"},{"startTime":816.097,"endTime":817.987,"body":"These are just general rules."},{"startTime":817.987,"endTime":819.537,"body":"They're, they're,"},{"startTime":817.987,"endTime":819.537,"body":"they're not rules at all."},{"startTime":819.567,"endTime":821.447,"body":"They're just like my personal preference."},{"startTime":821.757,"endTime":823.167,"body":"I would like the seven criteria to be."},{"startTime":823.317,"endTime":827.957,"body":"Fairly broad, not technical and the"},{"startTime":823.317,"endTime":827.957,"body":"ability to say, Hey, next we're going to"},{"startTime":827.957,"endTime":833.237,"body":"demo this and just call out the acceptance"},{"startTime":827.957,"endTime":833.237,"body":"criteria because there potentially"},{"startTime":833.537,"endTime":834.927,"body":"could be a lot of flexibility in there."},{"startTime":835.212,"endTime":839.162,"body":"But also if you're adding acceptance"},{"startTime":835.212,"endTime":839.162,"body":"criteria to stories after you"},{"startTime":839.172,"endTime":842.522,"body":"start the sprint you have a"},{"startTime":839.172,"endTime":842.522,"body":"problem with that right there."},{"startTime":842.542,"endTime":845.232,"body":"Like that, that's where we were"},{"startTime":842.542,"endTime":845.232,"body":"going with scope creep right here."},{"startTime":845.572,"endTime":847.102,"body":"Like if you're doing that."},{"startTime":847.442,"endTime":848.762,"body":"It does indicate a problem."},{"startTime":848.782,"endTime":853.302,"body":"It does, it does indicate to me"},{"startTime":848.782,"endTime":853.302,"body":"that you did not fully understand"},{"startTime":853.302,"endTime":855.182,"body":"the story when you started."},{"startTime":855.192,"endTime":858.622,"body":"Again, I'm, I'm talking generalities"},{"startTime":855.192,"endTime":858.622,"body":"here because it's, it's obvious like you"},{"startTime":858.622,"endTime":863.202,"body":"can get into work and you can figure out"},{"startTime":858.622,"endTime":863.202,"body":"things in a, especially if you're not"},{"startTime":863.202,"endTime":866.602,"body":"familiar with the code base of the product"},{"startTime":863.202,"endTime":866.602,"body":"or if you have new developers or whatever."},{"startTime":866.832,"endTime":870.962,"body":"Sure, but generally speaking,"},{"startTime":866.832,"endTime":870.962,"body":"generally speaking, if you get in and"},{"startTime":870.962,"endTime":874.752,"body":"you have to add acceptance criteria"},{"startTime":870.962,"endTime":874.752,"body":"as you work through the ticket."},{"startTime":874.902,"endTime":876.402,"body":"That's an issue"},{"startTime":876.402,"endTime":876.882,"body":"for me."},{"startTime":877.017,"endTime":877.662,"body":"I, I agree."},{"startTime":877.662,"endTime":880.872,"body":"Because that, that shows that"},{"startTime":877.662,"endTime":880.872,"body":"the, the story wasn't ready."},{"startTime":880.877,"endTime":881.097,"body":"Right."},{"startTime":881.102,"endTime":881.322,"body":"Right."},{"startTime":881.322,"endTime":883.512,"body":"You probably shouldn't have picked"},{"startTime":881.322,"endTime":883.512,"body":"it up because when you pick it"},{"startTime":883.517,"endTime":885.762,"body":"up, you have some confidence that"},{"startTime":883.517,"endTime":885.762,"body":"you can finish it in the script."},{"startTime":885.847,"endTime":887.052,"body":"Well, well, I mean, to,"},{"startTime":887.057,"endTime":890.202,"body":"to be fair, to like, it's not"},{"startTime":887.057,"endTime":890.202,"body":"ready, like it may have been ready"},{"startTime":890.202,"endTime":891.462,"body":"from the business perspective,"},{"startTime":891.462,"endTime":892.842,"body":"AC is a tricky one because."},{"startTime":893.167,"endTime":896.847,"body":"I've had teams that they want me"},{"startTime":893.167,"endTime":896.847,"body":"there's a product manager to write"},{"startTime":896.887,"endTime":901.287,"body":"the description like as this type"},{"startTime":896.887,"endTime":901.287,"body":"of user, I want this functionality"},{"startTime":901.287,"endTime":903.367,"body":"so I can derive this business value."},{"startTime":903.517,"endTime":906.807,"body":"And then they don't want me to"},{"startTime":903.517,"endTime":906.807,"body":"write the acceptance criteria until"},{"startTime":906.807,"endTime":908.707,"body":"not at the backlog refinement."},{"startTime":908.707,"endTime":908.737,"body":"Right."},{"startTime":908.887,"endTime":912.107,"body":"They want to wait until they're in sprint"},{"startTime":908.887,"endTime":912.107,"body":"planning to write the acceptance criteria."},{"startTime":912.257,"endTime":916.177,"body":"And at sprint planning is when they'll"},{"startTime":912.257,"endTime":916.177,"body":"decide to break the task in half."},{"startTime":916.207,"endTime":919.867,"body":"And when because it was like, when they're"},{"startTime":916.207,"endTime":919.867,"body":"in that section of the code, looking at"},{"startTime":919.867,"endTime":922.977,"body":"it in sprint planning, and, and they're"},{"startTime":919.867,"endTime":922.977,"body":"in the database, and they're looking at"},{"startTime":922.977,"endTime":927.787,"body":"the tables and what they have to do, then"},{"startTime":922.977,"endTime":927.787,"body":"they'll start negotiating of, of, Hey,"},{"startTime":927.897,"endTime":932.367,"body":", we can do functionality X, but if you"},{"startTime":927.897,"endTime":932.367,"body":"want functionality Y, we have to modify"},{"startTime":932.377,"endTime":935.437,"body":"a database table and that's going to be"},{"startTime":932.377,"endTime":935.437,"body":"more involved than it's going to go from"},{"startTime":935.437,"endTime":939.517,"body":"being a three to a five and maybe that's"},{"startTime":935.437,"endTime":939.517,"body":"the point for me as a product manager to"},{"startTime":939.517,"endTime":944.477,"body":"say, I don't want it to go from a three"},{"startTime":939.517,"endTime":944.477,"body":"to a five, I'm fine pulling this out or"},{"startTime":944.477,"endTime":948.777,"body":"like, like I think of like putting up"},{"startTime":944.477,"endTime":948.777,"body":"a new API endpoint, for example, I do"},{"startTime":948.777,"endTime":952.567,"body":"this all the time and I'm pretty sure my"},{"startTime":948.777,"endTime":952.567,"body":"team hates it, but I do it all the time."},{"startTime":952.817,"endTime":956.397,"body":"Well, I'll say, I'll say, Deploy"},{"startTime":952.817,"endTime":956.397,"body":"the new endpoint, make sure that"},{"startTime":956.397,"endTime":958.567,"body":"it takes these criteria as inputs."},{"startTime":958.717,"endTime":962.937,"body":"But then no matter what you put in"},{"startTime":958.717,"endTime":962.937,"body":"as an input, give me the same output."},{"startTime":962.967,"endTime":966.817,"body":"Just put like Brian says, hello, as"},{"startTime":962.967,"endTime":966.817,"body":"the output, no matter what it is,"},{"startTime":967.017,"endTime":970.937,"body":"because like the idea of throwing the"},{"startTime":967.017,"endTime":970.937,"body":"new endpoint out there, getting the"},{"startTime":970.937,"endTime":974.557,"body":"authentication in place, getting the"},{"startTime":970.937,"endTime":974.557,"body":"deployment in place for a team that"},{"startTime":974.557,"endTime":975.937,"body":"doesn't have all this stuff in place."},{"startTime":975.937,"endTime":976.187,"body":"Right."},{"startTime":976.367,"endTime":976.457,"body":"Like."},{"startTime":976.607,"endTime":980.217,"body":"All that stuff is going to be hard"},{"startTime":976.607,"endTime":980.217,"body":"enough to figure out, let alone the"},{"startTime":980.227,"endTime":984.467,"body":"business logic that is inside of the"},{"startTime":980.227,"endTime":984.467,"body":"container, that API endpoint to say"},{"startTime":984.467,"endTime":986.587,"body":"like, Oh, if this, then that, then this,"},{"startTime":986.587,"endTime":989.247,"body":"I'll normally ask teams when"},{"startTime":986.587,"endTime":989.247,"body":"they're doing something new."},{"startTime":989.397,"endTime":992.407,"body":"And like, listen, I'll strip"},{"startTime":989.397,"endTime":992.407,"body":"all that business logic"},{"startTime":992.407,"endTime":994.017,"body":"database back end stuff out."},{"startTime":994.167,"endTime":998.647,"body":"Just let me, let me hit it with"},{"startTime":994.167,"endTime":998.647,"body":"the correct inputs I'm expecting."},{"startTime":998.917,"endTime":1001.727,"body":"And then next sprint, we'll"},{"startTime":998.917,"endTime":1001.727,"body":"make it work correctly."},{"startTime":1001.767,"endTime":1003.244,"body":"Like, you know what I mean?"},{"startTime":1003.244,"endTime":1004.367,"body":"But we can demo that."},{"startTime":1004.387,"endTime":1007.527,"body":"We can demo, especially if"},{"startTime":1004.387,"endTime":1007.527,"body":"there's a front end involved."},{"startTime":1007.527,"endTime":1008.507,"body":"We can demo"},{"startTime":1008.517,"endTime":1008.757,"body":"that."},{"startTime":1008.837,"endTime":1009.127,"body":"Right."},{"startTime":1009.277,"endTime":1010.007,"body":"Log in, log out."},{"startTime":1010.007,"endTime":1010.087,"body":"Exactly."},{"startTime":1010.247,"endTime":1014.532,"body":"So the contract could be written up"},{"startTime":1010.247,"endTime":1014.532,"body":"front, but the you can Progressively"},{"startTime":1014.532,"endTime":1016.552,"body":"elaborate the pieces of it, right?"},{"startTime":1016.702,"endTime":1019.092,"body":"Sprint X, you can have"},{"startTime":1016.702,"endTime":1019.092,"body":"these two things working."},{"startTime":1019.092,"endTime":1022.022,"body":"Sprint Y, it's going to be those"},{"startTime":1019.092,"endTime":1022.022,"body":"two plus maybe one or two more, etc."},{"startTime":1022.022,"endTime":1023.902,"body":"You can do that, depending"},{"startTime":1022.022,"endTime":1023.902,"body":"on how big the payload was."},{"startTime":1023.922,"endTime":1028.272,"body":"Yeah, I like culture and facilitation"},{"startTime":1023.922,"endTime":1028.272,"body":"affect acceptance criteria."},{"startTime":1028.352,"endTime":1029.702,"body":"Culture and facilitation."},{"startTime":1030.032,"endTime":1032.822,"body":"Because I've been in a lot of"},{"startTime":1030.032,"endTime":1032.822,"body":"organizations where the acceptance"},{"startTime":1032.822,"endTime":1035.222,"body":"criteria becomes a set of development."},{"startTime":1035.372,"endTime":1039.232,"body":"Tasks to get things done, which"},{"startTime":1035.372,"endTime":1039.232,"body":"are, which you, you could not demo."},{"startTime":1039.282,"endTime":1039.422,"body":"I"},{"startTime":1039.422,"endTime":1039.802,"body":"agree."},{"startTime":1039.932,"endTime":1044.152,"body":"I've seen developers write tasks"},{"startTime":1039.932,"endTime":1044.152,"body":"instead of ACs and just say this is"},{"startTime":1044.152,"endTime":1045.422,"body":"done, this is done, this is done."},{"startTime":1045.462,"endTime":1046.502,"body":"The last task is done."},{"startTime":1046.502,"endTime":1047.212,"body":"The story is done."},{"startTime":1047.412,"endTime":1050.092,"body":"So you try and demo that that's"},{"startTime":1047.412,"endTime":1050.092,"body":"going to be a tall challenge."},{"startTime":1050.242,"endTime":1052.682,"body":"Yeah, and, and also if you,"},{"startTime":1050.242,"endTime":1052.682,"body":"if you're going down the."},{"startTime":1052.832,"endTime":1058.822,"body":"Road of the acceptance criteria becoming"},{"startTime":1052.832,"endTime":1058.822,"body":"like the development tasks basically"},{"startTime":1058.822,"endTime":1063.402,"body":"if you're using Jira or whatever tool"},{"startTime":1058.822,"endTime":1063.402,"body":"if that's the tool you're using you"},{"startTime":1063.402,"endTime":1068.742,"body":"have epics and stories and subtasks"},{"startTime":1063.402,"endTime":1068.742,"body":"and the subtasks are meant to be"},{"startTime":1068.742,"endTime":1073.552,"body":"the developers like How I'm going to"},{"startTime":1068.742,"endTime":1073.552,"body":"implement What the story asks for."},{"startTime":1073.862,"endTime":1078.052,"body":"But the acceptance criteria when"},{"startTime":1073.862,"endTime":1078.052,"body":"you create a new work item, it's"},{"startTime":1078.052,"endTime":1081.182,"body":"not like it stubs out, like put"},{"startTime":1078.052,"endTime":1081.182,"body":"your business subscription here and"},{"startTime":1081.182,"endTime":1082.562,"body":"put your acceptance criteria here."},{"startTime":1082.562,"endTime":1083.752,"body":"It's just like a blank slate."},{"startTime":1083.802,"endTime":1086.792,"body":"So you have to bring the"},{"startTime":1083.802,"endTime":1086.792,"body":"yeah, anyway, whatever."},{"startTime":1086.792,"endTime":1087.562,"body":"That is one"},{"startTime":1087.562,"endTime":1090.702,"body":"thing that that was very helpful"},{"startTime":1087.562,"endTime":1090.702,"body":"when I put the template in"},{"startTime":1090.702,"endTime":1092.602,"body":"place for Azure DevOps, right?"},{"startTime":1092.672,"endTime":1094.642,"body":"Yeah, you create a new user story."},{"startTime":1094.692,"endTime":1099.192,"body":"It puts a not only the The sentence"},{"startTime":1094.692,"endTime":1099.192,"body":"that says, as a, in parentheses,"},{"startTime":1099.492,"endTime":1102.192,"body":"and all someone has to do is"},{"startTime":1099.492,"endTime":1102.192,"body":"replace what's in parentheses."},{"startTime":1102.192,"endTime":1106.642,"body":"So it says, as a, persona, in"},{"startTime":1102.192,"endTime":1106.642,"body":"brackets, I want, in brackets, what"},{"startTime":1106.642,"endTime":1108.852,"body":"the need is so that, the why, right?"},{"startTime":1108.882,"endTime":1112.552,"body":"And then in the acceptance criteria"},{"startTime":1108.882,"endTime":1112.552,"body":"field we decided to go with one of two"},{"startTime":1112.552,"endTime":1113.742,"body":"different ways, depending on the team."},{"startTime":1113.752,"endTime":1116.512,"body":"One just simply said, verify"},{"startTime":1113.752,"endTime":1116.512,"body":"that, and then there's a bullet"},{"startTime":1116.512,"endTime":1117.772,"body":"list of things to verify."},{"startTime":1117.922,"endTime":1121.752,"body":"Well, the other one was the You know"},{"startTime":1117.922,"endTime":1121.752,"body":"given when then kind of construct."},{"startTime":1121.852,"endTime":1122.992,"body":"Sure, sure, sure, sure."},{"startTime":1123.332,"endTime":1125.622,"body":"But the teams don't have to"},{"startTime":1123.332,"endTime":1125.622,"body":"worry about what to put in there."},{"startTime":1125.622,"endTime":1128.432,"body":"Cause like you say, you have junior"},{"startTime":1125.622,"endTime":1128.432,"body":"developers and they're just gonna go"},{"startTime":1128.572,"endTime":1130.592,"body":"focus on the dev part of it, right?"},{"startTime":1130.832,"endTime":1131.032,"body":"Right."},{"startTime":1131.182,"endTime":1131.432,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":1131.582,"endTime":1136.282,"body":"I I actually would I, I as product, I"},{"startTime":1131.582,"endTime":1136.282,"body":"wouldn't mind if the team pressed me"},{"startTime":1136.282,"endTime":1139.732,"body":"to do given when then, because like,"},{"startTime":1136.282,"endTime":1139.732,"body":"if they were like implementing some"},{"startTime":1139.732,"endTime":1144.362,"body":"kind of like automation framework I"},{"startTime":1139.732,"endTime":1144.362,"body":"think it would be a very minimal lift."},{"startTime":1144.512,"endTime":1149.322,"body":"For like a singular number of people"},{"startTime":1144.512,"endTime":1149.322,"body":"writing the requirements, quote"},{"startTime":1149.352,"endTime":1153.152,"body":"requirements into the system to change"},{"startTime":1149.352,"endTime":1153.152,"body":"the way that they work, it's like"},{"startTime":1153.162,"endTime":1156.602,"body":"asking like four people to change"},{"startTime":1153.162,"endTime":1156.602,"body":"the way they work versus asking like."},{"startTime":1156.752,"endTime":1158.792,"body":"50 people to change the way they work."},{"startTime":1158.802,"endTime":1159.182,"body":"Sure."},{"startTime":1159.332,"endTime":1163.062,"body":"Just write the requirements instead of"},{"startTime":1159.332,"endTime":1163.062,"body":"as a whatever, I want whatever, so that"},{"startTime":1163.062,"endTime":1168.482,"body":"whatever is a given this condition, you"},{"startTime":1163.062,"endTime":1168.482,"body":"know when whatever, I want whatever."},{"startTime":1168.632,"endTime":1170.032,"body":"That's pretty straightforward."},{"startTime":1170.202,"endTime":1172.612,"body":"I mean, the only thing that you"},{"startTime":1170.202,"endTime":1172.612,"body":"lose is maybe you lose the personas."},{"startTime":1172.762,"endTime":1175.602,"body":"Maybe you lose the personas or the"},{"startTime":1172.762,"endTime":1175.602,"body":"business logic, but you, you can"},{"startTime":1175.612,"endTime":1177.772,"body":"still include the business logic."},{"startTime":1177.832,"endTime":1177.862,"body":"Okay."},{"startTime":1178.122,"endTime":1180.202,"body":"As, you can be as verbose as you want."},{"startTime":1180.212,"endTime":1180.812,"body":"And also."},{"startTime":1180.962,"endTime":1183.012,"body":"I would argue, all that"},{"startTime":1180.962,"endTime":1183.012,"body":"stuff should be in the Epic."},{"startTime":1183.162,"endTime":1184.172,"body":"It should be at the higher level."},{"startTime":1184.182,"endTime":1185.092,"body":"It should"},{"startTime":1185.102,"endTime":1188.672,"body":"be, however, developers aren't going"},{"startTime":1185.102,"endTime":1188.672,"body":"to continually keep looking at the"},{"startTime":1189.002,"endTime":1189.492,"body":"Epic, right?"},{"startTime":1189.822,"endTime":1191.172,"body":"No, no they don't."},{"startTime":1191.372,"endTime":1191.612,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":1191.782,"endTime":1194.562,"body":"That's why I'm a big fan of"},{"startTime":1191.782,"endTime":1194.562,"body":"the Mike Miller model, right?"},{"startTime":1194.692,"endTime":1196.482,"body":"One actor, one action, one result."},{"startTime":1196.492,"endTime":1196.872,"body":"That's right."},{"startTime":1197.022,"endTime":1197.422,"body":"That's right."},{"startTime":1197.572,"endTime":1199.122,"body":"Mike, we got to get Mike"},{"startTime":1197.572,"endTime":1199.122,"body":"back on the podcast."},{"startTime":1199.132,"endTime":1200.482,"body":"Yeah, it's been a while."},{"startTime":1200.632,"endTime":1202.872,"body":"so Another one, this"},{"startTime":1200.632,"endTime":1202.872,"body":"is number three of you"},{"startTime":1202.872,"endTime":1203.542,"body":"keeping count."},{"startTime":1203.732,"endTime":1209.352,"body":"In the next slot was our clip"},{"startTime":1203.732,"endTime":1209.352,"body":"on budgeting, agile budgeting"},{"startTime":1209.372,"endTime":1211.372,"body":"versus traditional budgeting."},{"startTime":1211.672,"endTime":1215.442,"body":"Since the beginning of the podcast,"},{"startTime":1211.672,"endTime":1215.442,"body":"since episode one, I wanted to do a whole"},{"startTime":1215.452,"endTime":1222.872,"body":"podcast on a better way to do software"},{"startTime":1215.452,"endTime":1222.872,"body":"development budgeting and talking about"},{"startTime":1222.872,"endTime":1227.762,"body":"CapEx and OpEx and talking about how"},{"startTime":1222.872,"endTime":1227.762,"body":"software capitalization works and how"},{"startTime":1227.762,"endTime":1232.652,"body":"you can get capitalization numbers"},{"startTime":1227.762,"endTime":1232.652,"body":"out of Azure DevOps and or JIRA Or any"},{"startTime":1232.652,"endTime":1235.112,"body":"ALM, could be JIRA, could be anything."},{"startTime":1235.262,"endTime":1236.922,"body":"I've wanted to do that"},{"startTime":1235.262,"endTime":1236.922,"body":"podcast for a while."},{"startTime":1237.002,"endTime":1242.322,"body":"I, I've not kind of pressed the issue"},{"startTime":1237.002,"endTime":1242.322,"body":"because number one, there's a lot of prep"},{"startTime":1242.362,"endTime":1243.362,"body":"that's going to have to go into that."},{"startTime":1243.482,"endTime":1247.372,"body":"We're going to need examples"},{"startTime":1243.482,"endTime":1247.372,"body":"and spreadsheets and like red"},{"startTime":1247.372,"endTime":1250.762,"body":"string and conspiracy theories"},{"startTime":1247.372,"endTime":1250.762,"body":"and all kinds of stuff."},{"startTime":1251.052,"endTime":1251.652,"body":"Number one."},{"startTime":1251.652,"endTime":1252.652,"body":"Number two, um."},{"startTime":1252.952,"endTime":1255.802,"body":"that's a really uh,"},{"startTime":1252.952,"endTime":1255.802,"body":"expected to be a really"},{"startTime":1255.802,"endTime":1257.262,"body":"dry subject."},{"startTime":1257.292,"endTime":1260.942,"body":"I think we may start on the"},{"startTime":1257.292,"endTime":1260.942,"body":"next one on that broadcast."},{"startTime":1260.942,"endTime":1264.032,"body":"We may start at a different level"},{"startTime":1260.942,"endTime":1264.032,"body":"instead of just simply going into"},{"startTime":1264.082,"endTime":1267.532,"body":"traditional versus as your project"},{"startTime":1264.082,"endTime":1267.532,"body":"budgeting we'll start off by"},{"startTime":1267.532,"endTime":1268.952,"body":"just simply saying should be fun."},{"startTime":1269.102,"endTime":1272.102,"body":"Projects or products, and"},{"startTime":1269.102,"endTime":1272.102,"body":"then we get into how, right?"},{"startTime":1272.142,"endTime":1274.012,"body":"Maybe that, that'd be"},{"startTime":1272.142,"endTime":1274.012,"body":"a good, solid podcast."},{"startTime":1274.012,"endTime":1275.082,"body":"Yeah, yeah, yeah."},{"startTime":1275.232,"endTime":1282.142,"body":"Well, I mean, the, the, the CapEx,"},{"startTime":1275.232,"endTime":1282.142,"body":"like the CapEx amortization strategy,"},{"startTime":1282.142,"endTime":1286.542,"body":"the debt leveraging strategy of"},{"startTime":1282.142,"endTime":1286.542,"body":"taking the cost of your development"},{"startTime":1286.542,"endTime":1290.482,"body":"team this year and, and leveraging it"},{"startTime":1286.542,"endTime":1290.482,"body":"over three years in the this year and"},{"startTime":1290.482,"endTime":1291.862,"body":"then two more years in the future."},{"startTime":1291.872,"endTime":1292.262,"body":"Mm hmm."},{"startTime":1292.412,"endTime":1296.992,"body":"That, that works when you're trying"},{"startTime":1292.412,"endTime":1296.992,"body":"to You know, when you're, when you're"},{"startTime":1297.002,"endTime":1302.492,"body":"trying to scale quickly, so, so the"},{"startTime":1297.002,"endTime":1302.492,"body":"idea is, is I can hire three times"},{"startTime":1302.492,"endTime":1304.672,"body":"the number of employees for this year."},{"startTime":1304.822,"endTime":1307.572,"body":"Maybe I bring on a contracting"},{"startTime":1304.822,"endTime":1307.572,"body":"firm or something like that, right?"},{"startTime":1307.842,"endTime":1311.442,"body":"And, and, and I accelerate my"},{"startTime":1307.842,"endTime":1311.442,"body":"software development and do like"},{"startTime":1311.452,"endTime":1313.072,"body":"three years worth of development."},{"startTime":1313.222,"endTime":1316.822,"body":"So that I can get my, my platform"},{"startTime":1313.222,"endTime":1316.822,"body":"or my software package or"},{"startTime":1316.822,"endTime":1317.982,"body":"something to a certain point."},{"startTime":1318.252,"endTime":1319.912,"body":"And then I roll those people off."},{"startTime":1320.172,"endTime":1322.202,"body":"And then I amortize that over three years."},{"startTime":1322.352,"endTime":1328.482,"body":"It, it's, it's, it's a strategy to"},{"startTime":1322.352,"endTime":1328.482,"body":"accelerate your software leveraging debt"},{"startTime":1328.632,"endTime":1330.022,"body":"right over the next couple of years."},{"startTime":1330.262,"endTime":1332.682,"body":"That's, that strategy"},{"startTime":1330.262,"endTime":1332.682,"body":"is not for everybody."},{"startTime":1332.832,"endTime":1333.842,"body":"Oh, it certainly isn't."},{"startTime":1333.852,"endTime":1337.252,"body":"I mean, if you're not vigilant"},{"startTime":1333.852,"endTime":1337.252,"body":"about your market space for one"},{"startTime":1337.252,"endTime":1340.862,"body":"thing, right, three years, what's"},{"startTime":1337.252,"endTime":1340.862,"body":"the, what's still a burning need at"},{"startTime":1341.202,"endTime":1343.712,"body":"that point that you saw now, right?"},{"startTime":1343.862,"endTime":1346.682,"body":"And then the other thing is the"},{"startTime":1343.862,"endTime":1346.682,"body":"whole net present value of dollar"},{"startTime":1346.682,"endTime":1348.162,"body":"today versus three years from now."},{"startTime":1348.312,"endTime":1351.102,"body":"Yeah, but there's a whole bunch of"},{"startTime":1348.312,"endTime":1351.102,"body":"other things that that we need to"},{"startTime":1351.102,"endTime":1354.412,"body":"consider in this as well, depending"},{"startTime":1351.102,"endTime":1354.412,"body":"on the financial model you use."},{"startTime":1354.432,"endTime":1354.712,"body":"Yeah,"},{"startTime":1354.932,"endTime":1360.792,"body":"I really want to do the I really want"},{"startTime":1354.932,"endTime":1360.792,"body":"to do the Agile, CapEx, OpEx, like a"},{"startTime":1360.792,"endTime":1367.392,"body":"general familiarization kind of podcast"},{"startTime":1360.792,"endTime":1367.392,"body":"in and of itself, because it still kind"},{"startTime":1367.392,"endTime":1371.802,"body":"of arms you to understand the pitfalls"},{"startTime":1367.392,"endTime":1371.802,"body":"of this traditional budgeting cycle"},{"startTime":1371.852,"endTime":1374.172,"body":"I don't know when the end of your fiscal"},{"startTime":1371.852,"endTime":1374.172,"body":"year is going to be, whether it's going"},{"startTime":1374.172,"endTime":1378.312,"body":"to be October, so that like around"},{"startTime":1374.172,"endTime":1378.312,"body":"September time, you're going to come and"},{"startTime":1378.322,"endTime":1381.952,"body":"start talking about what you need for,"},{"startTime":1378.322,"endTime":1381.952,"body":"quote resources for next year, right?"},{"startTime":1381.972,"endTime":1384.232,"body":"Or if it's the actual end of"},{"startTime":1381.972,"endTime":1384.232,"body":"the year, end of the year."},{"startTime":1384.232,"endTime":1387.942,"body":"So then you're probably doing it"},{"startTime":1384.232,"endTime":1387.942,"body":"in late November or whatever, right"},{"startTime":1387.942,"endTime":1390.452,"body":"around holidays, holiday season, right?"},{"startTime":1390.602,"endTime":1392.372,"body":"When everyone's trying to go"},{"startTime":1390.602,"endTime":1392.372,"body":"out on vacation, you're trying"},{"startTime":1392.372,"endTime":1393.172,"body":"to talk about budgeting."},{"startTime":1393.417,"endTime":1394.627,"body":"It doesn't really matter."},{"startTime":1394.637,"endTime":1396.167,"body":"There's a better way to do that."},{"startTime":1396.317,"endTime":1400.557,"body":"And it's about micro budgeting and"},{"startTime":1396.317,"endTime":1400.557,"body":"you can bring this to your finance"},{"startTime":1400.557,"endTime":1403.437,"body":"people and they can research it"},{"startTime":1400.557,"endTime":1403.437,"body":"because they should be the experts."},{"startTime":1403.687,"endTime":1408.547,"body":"Like you can bring these new fan dangled"},{"startTime":1403.687,"endTime":1408.547,"body":"ways of working to evolving agile team,"},{"startTime":1408.627,"endTime":1411.657,"body":"to all of your old school employees."},{"startTime":1411.807,"endTime":1417.167,"body":"And like they should be able to work with"},{"startTime":1411.807,"endTime":1417.167,"body":"you to,  stretch that money that this goes"},{"startTime":1417.167,"endTime":1421.267,"body":"into contracts and it goes into a bunch"},{"startTime":1417.167,"endTime":1421.267,"body":"of, it goes into a whole different side"},{"startTime":1421.267,"endTime":1425.227,"body":"of the organization that the software"},{"startTime":1421.267,"endTime":1425.227,"body":"developers, scrum masters, product"},{"startTime":1425.237,"endTime":1429.257,"body":"people, maybe anyone who might listen"},{"startTime":1425.237,"endTime":1429.257,"body":"to this podcast might not, Normally be"},{"startTime":1429.257,"endTime":1433.947,"body":"exposed to, but that's the way that this"},{"startTime":1429.257,"endTime":1433.947,"body":"whole side of your organization thinks."},{"startTime":1434.097,"endTime":1436.767,"body":"So you really need to be"},{"startTime":1434.097,"endTime":1436.767,"body":"able to speak their language."},{"startTime":1436.917,"endTime":1442.477,"body":"Yeah, I think it starts with trying to"},{"startTime":1436.917,"endTime":1442.477,"body":"explain to them this idea that budgeting"},{"startTime":1442.477,"endTime":1447.157,"body":"for the next fiscal year up front and"},{"startTime":1442.477,"endTime":1447.157,"body":"then putting out these lofty goals that"},{"startTime":1447.157,"endTime":1452.107,"body":"say You know, we're allocating 10 million"},{"startTime":1447.157,"endTime":1452.107,"body":"for the next fiscal year, and for that"},{"startTime":1452.107,"endTime":1454.007,"body":"money, we want this, this, and this."},{"startTime":1454.037,"endTime":1456.927,"body":"Like, you don't even know if that"},{"startTime":1454.037,"endTime":1456.927,"body":"can be attained with that money."},{"startTime":1457.077,"endTime":1459.817,"body":"You know, so, yeah, we'll"},{"startTime":1457.077,"endTime":1459.817,"body":"start with that sort of"},{"startTime":1460.017,"endTime":1460.917,"body":"an intro, I think."},{"startTime":1460.917,"endTime":1463.887,"body":"Well, you also don't know if the"},{"startTime":1460.917,"endTime":1463.887,"body":"market is going to absorb that."},{"startTime":1463.897,"endTime":1465.627,"body":"You don't know if the"},{"startTime":1463.897,"endTime":1465.627,"body":"market's going to accept that."},{"startTime":1465.827,"endTime":1468.087,"body":"There's a whole discovery"},{"startTime":1465.827,"endTime":1468.087,"body":"process involved."},{"startTime":1468.417,"endTime":1472.647,"body":"And the, the, the money should"},{"startTime":1468.417,"endTime":1472.647,"body":"be structured to support that."},{"startTime":1472.657,"endTime":1477.187,"body":"But the whole yearly financial"},{"startTime":1472.657,"endTime":1477.187,"body":"planning type of cycle, the idea"},{"startTime":1477.187,"endTime":1483.777,"body":"there is you only get to replan"},{"startTime":1477.187,"endTime":1483.777,"body":"plan or replan one time per year."},{"startTime":1483.927,"endTime":1485.657,"body":"You only get to inspect and adapt."},{"startTime":1485.807,"endTime":1486.357,"body":"One time"},{"startTime":1486.357,"endTime":1486.937,"body":"per year."},{"startTime":1486.997,"endTime":1488.067,"body":"And it's probably too late by"},{"startTime":1488.067,"endTime":1488.527,"body":"that time."},{"startTime":1488.527,"endTime":1494.297,"body":"Anyway, that seems really, I mean,"},{"startTime":1488.527,"endTime":1494.297,"body":"it really seems like an old school,"},{"startTime":1494.497,"endTime":1497.907,"body":"very old school layer on top of"},{"startTime":1494.497,"endTime":1497.907,"body":"that, these asinine things like."},{"startTime":1498.057,"endTime":1501.287,"body":"You know, let's say your, your"},{"startTime":1498.057,"endTime":1501.287,"body":"fiscal year is the calendar year."},{"startTime":1501.427,"endTime":1505.247,"body":"So come November, you have"},{"startTime":1501.427,"endTime":1505.247,"body":"money left over by some miracle."},{"startTime":1505.497,"endTime":1506.987,"body":"Well, you can't roll it forward."},{"startTime":1506.987,"endTime":1508.497,"body":"It's use it or lose it."},{"startTime":1508.777,"endTime":1511.407,"body":"Send people on some training"},{"startTime":1508.777,"endTime":1511.407,"body":"classes in Hawaii or something."},{"startTime":1511.727,"endTime":1513.337,"body":"I mean, come on, what a waste of money."},{"startTime":1513.347,"endTime":1513.537,"body":"Well,"},{"startTime":1513.557,"endTime":1519.547,"body":"or you're going to buy things that you"},{"startTime":1513.557,"endTime":1519.547,"body":"clearly Don't need right and and and then"},{"startTime":1519.577,"endTime":1522.397,"body":"and then you got okay ours and stuff like"},{"startTime":1519.577,"endTime":1522.397,"body":"that at the end of the year that you're"},{"startTime":1522.397,"endTime":1525.877,"body":"Trying to mesh with this new system to"},{"startTime":1522.397,"endTime":1525.877,"body":"say well we spent money on this tool."},{"startTime":1525.877,"endTime":1528.387,"body":"So you have to use it"},{"startTime":1525.877,"endTime":1528.387,"body":"like things like that."},{"startTime":1528.387,"endTime":1528.417,"body":"Like"},{"startTime":1528.567,"endTime":1532.667,"body":"it's a double edged sword because if"},{"startTime":1528.567,"endTime":1532.667,"body":"you have that money left over the budget"},{"startTime":1532.667,"endTime":1536.737,"body":"left over and you don't use it, not"},{"startTime":1532.667,"endTime":1536.737,"body":"only can you not carry it forward next"},{"startTime":1536.737,"endTime":1538.407,"body":"year, you'll get that much less, right."},{"startTime":1538.657,"endTime":1538.847,"body":"Right."},{"startTime":1538.877,"endTime":1539.297,"body":"You know?"},{"startTime":1539.307,"endTime":1540.427,"body":"So it's like a lose,"},{"startTime":1540.427,"endTime":1541.207,"body":"lose all around."},{"startTime":1541.207,"endTime":1541.427,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":1541.437,"endTime":1543.917,"body":"Well, you had this budget,"},{"startTime":1541.437,"endTime":1543.917,"body":"but you didn't use it."},{"startTime":1543.917,"endTime":1545.697,"body":"It's a very accusatory right now."},{"startTime":1545.697,"endTime":1545.987,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":1545.987,"endTime":1546.617,"body":"You, Oh my"},{"startTime":1546.617,"endTime":1546.967,"body":"goodness."},{"startTime":1546.967,"endTime":1547.957,"body":"That encourages."},{"startTime":1548.107,"endTime":1551.587,"body":"You know that biases you towards"},{"startTime":1548.107,"endTime":1551.587,"body":"overspending right and then you go"},{"startTime":1551.597,"endTime":1554.877,"body":"back to the well and they say no"},{"startTime":1551.597,"endTime":1554.877,"body":"Oh, man, where do we start with?"},{"startTime":1555.117,"endTime":1557.987,"body":"Yeah, this would be a really"},{"startTime":1555.117,"endTime":1557.987,"body":"good really good podcast."},{"startTime":1557.987,"endTime":1560.007,"body":"Yeah, at least a two bourbon podcast."},{"startTime":1560.327,"endTime":1560.707,"body":"Oh"},{"startTime":1560.857,"endTime":1564.077,"body":"Well, I'm I'm ready I will"},{"startTime":1560.857,"endTime":1564.077,"body":"I will buy it right now"},{"startTime":1564.287,"endTime":1566.987,"body":"Next one also, by the way has"},{"startTime":1564.287,"endTime":1566.987,"body":"both of us in blue shirts."},{"startTime":1567.137,"endTime":1567.677,"body":"I don't know why"},{"startTime":1567.677,"endTime":1570.637,"body":"that's a theme a clip"},{"startTime":1567.677,"endTime":1570.637,"body":"from Agile Podcast 10?"},{"startTime":1570.637,"endTime":1575.737,"body":"So the next one we have, it's"},{"startTime":1570.637,"endTime":1575.737,"body":"delivering roadmap features and"},{"startTime":1575.807,"endTime":1578.047,"body":"milestones in Agile projects."},{"startTime":1578.327,"endTime":1582.137,"body":"I think, I think the reason that this"},{"startTime":1578.327,"endTime":1582.137,"body":"was the most viewed is because it has"},{"startTime":1582.137,"endTime":1586.187,"body":"to do with something that we explored"},{"startTime":1582.137,"endTime":1586.187,"body":"actually on a later podcast about"},{"startTime":1586.337,"endTime":1592.447,"body":"Gantt charts and about how traditional"},{"startTime":1586.337,"endTime":1592.447,"body":"organizations do project planning."},{"startTime":1592.767,"endTime":1596.567,"body":"Like they have their timeline, they have"},{"startTime":1592.767,"endTime":1596.567,"body":"their money and they put both of those"},{"startTime":1596.567,"endTime":1599.897,"body":"on a timeline with little, the little"},{"startTime":1596.567,"endTime":1599.897,"body":"diamonds on the top with the milestones"},{"startTime":1599.897,"endTime":1603.507,"body":"that they just pull out of the air and"},{"startTime":1599.897,"endTime":1603.507,"body":"say, we want to be GA by this day and"},{"startTime":1603.507,"endTime":1604.967,"body":"we want to be whatever by this date."},{"startTime":1605.117,"endTime":1606.147,"body":"You can do that."},{"startTime":1606.297,"endTime":1608.897,"body":"In quote, agile delivery."},{"startTime":1609.047,"endTime":1609.317,"body":"Okay."},{"startTime":1609.467,"endTime":1610.827,"body":"That's super easy to do."},{"startTime":1611.31,"endTime":1617.51,"body":"equate it to like the planning for alpha"},{"startTime":1611.31,"endTime":1617.51,"body":"release, beta release, GA release, that"},{"startTime":1617.51,"endTime":1620.4,"body":"kind of stuff, same thing we talked"},{"startTime":1617.51,"endTime":1620.4,"body":"about earlier in the podcast about"},{"startTime":1620.41,"endTime":1622.92,"body":"Airbnb, Airbnb will hold its releases."},{"startTime":1623.07,"endTime":1627.63,"body":"Until they can consolidate their"},{"startTime":1623.07,"endTime":1627.63,"body":"marketing activity and then they'll"},{"startTime":1627.63,"endTime":1628.98,"body":"announce the date and they'll drop it."},{"startTime":1628.98,"endTime":1630.15,"body":"Same thing with Apple."},{"startTime":1630.15,"endTime":1633.09,"body":"Apple sure picks dates"},{"startTime":1630.15,"endTime":1633.09,"body":"way out in the future."},{"startTime":1633.3,"endTime":1639.45,"body":"Oh, 15 months from now is gonna be our"},{"startTime":1633.3,"endTime":1639.45,"body":"big conference, so let's spin up what"},{"startTime":1639.45,"endTime":1641.1,"body":"we can spin up for that conference."},{"startTime":1641.34,"endTime":1645.24,"body":"They're releasing very quickly"},{"startTime":1641.34,"endTime":1645.24,"body":"and iteratively, I'm sure."},{"startTime":1645.38,"endTime":1645.47,"body":"Mm-Hmm."},{"startTime":1645.8,"endTime":1650.18,"body":". And then holding those features to"},{"startTime":1645.8,"endTime":1650.18,"body":"demo the most impactful of all of them."},{"startTime":1650.33,"endTime":1653.68,"body":"At that conference, that's, I'm"},{"startTime":1650.33,"endTime":1653.68,"body":"not saying that you can't do that."},{"startTime":1653.69,"endTime":1655.38,"body":"That's completely fine."},{"startTime":1655.53,"endTime":1660.37,"body":"However, the constant release process"},{"startTime":1655.53,"endTime":1660.37,"body":"is happening on the back end, regardless"},{"startTime":1660.37,"endTime":1662.09,"body":"of what you publish as milestones."},{"startTime":1662.17,"endTime":1665.54,"body":"You can even pick dates out of"},{"startTime":1662.17,"endTime":1665.54,"body":"the air and say, I want to do"},{"startTime":1665.54,"endTime":1666.76,"body":"this milestone by this date."},{"startTime":1667.1,"endTime":1671.29,"body":"And then your teams have to figure"},{"startTime":1667.1,"endTime":1671.29,"body":"out what is as much as we can"},{"startTime":1671.3,"endTime":1673.19,"body":"do to deliver those features?"},{"startTime":1673.535,"endTime":1674.135,"body":"By this date."},{"startTime":1674.175,"endTime":1677.665,"body":"It sounds like it sounds like the"},{"startTime":1674.175,"endTime":1677.665,"body":"implication of like like, like the early"},{"startTime":1677.665,"endTime":1680.665,"body":"2000s development where you had to like"},{"startTime":1677.665,"endTime":1680.665,"body":"work nights and weekends to deliver"},{"startTime":1680.905,"endTime":1683.055,"body":"whatever by by an unholy date or whatever."},{"startTime":1683.205,"endTime":1685.125,"body":"Do what you can, okay?"},{"startTime":1685.315,"endTime":1688.3,"body":"But the milestones at the top of the"},{"startTime":1685.315,"endTime":1688.3,"body":"chart You can still do that in Agile."},{"startTime":1688.31,"endTime":1688.45,"body":"You"},{"startTime":1688.45,"endTime":1689.09,"body":"certainly can."},{"startTime":1689.09,"endTime":1692.45,"body":"I think in traditional project"},{"startTime":1689.09,"endTime":1692.45,"body":"management, the thing that went wrong"},{"startTime":1692.46,"endTime":1696.64,"body":"is you set up these dominoes and"},{"startTime":1692.46,"endTime":1696.64,"body":"each domino was a, was a milestone."},{"startTime":1696.66,"endTime":1697.01,"body":"Sure."},{"startTime":1697.05,"endTime":1699.54,"body":"So you miss one and the whole"},{"startTime":1697.05,"endTime":1699.54,"body":"thing just goes tumbling down."},{"startTime":1699.57,"endTime":1704.36,"body":"In the case of Apple, Airbnb, or whoever"},{"startTime":1699.57,"endTime":1704.36,"body":"else is doing the new way of working."},{"startTime":1704.61,"endTime":1704.95,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":1705.03,"endTime":1707.73,"body":"I mean, you set out a"},{"startTime":1705.03,"endTime":1707.73,"body":"date 15 months in advance."},{"startTime":1707.88,"endTime":1711.31,"body":"And as you get closer to it, you've"},{"startTime":1707.88,"endTime":1711.31,"body":"got features that are being completed."},{"startTime":1711.51,"endTime":1715.23,"body":"Sure, you'll find yourself with one or"},{"startTime":1711.51,"endTime":1715.23,"body":"two features that may not be complete."},{"startTime":1715.36,"endTime":1715.7,"body":"Right?"},{"startTime":1715.73,"endTime":1716.05,"body":"Sure."},{"startTime":1716.2,"endTime":1719.68,"body":"So fine, make the scope flexible,"},{"startTime":1716.2,"endTime":1719.68,"body":"leave those out, and then bring"},{"startTime":1719.68,"endTime":1720.99,"body":"them out in an update later."},{"startTime":1721.14,"endTime":1721.42,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":1721.58,"endTime":1723.38,"body":"That's how they've been"},{"startTime":1721.58,"endTime":1723.38,"body":"doing it and it works."},{"startTime":1723.53,"endTime":1727.079,"body":"Well, if you're building your milestones"},{"startTime":1723.53,"endTime":1727.079,"body":"where they all build on previous ones."},{"startTime":1727.229,"endTime":1727.719,"body":"Yeah, I know."},{"startTime":1727.719,"endTime":1730.349,"body":"I mean, you have a problem right"},{"startTime":1727.719,"endTime":1730.349,"body":"there like you have a problem with"},{"startTime":1730.369,"endTime":1734.069,"body":"dependencies and that now we're talking"},{"startTime":1730.369,"endTime":1734.069,"body":"about dependency management and we bring"},{"startTime":1734.069,"endTime":1737.809,"body":"in Red String and we bring in people"},{"startTime":1734.069,"endTime":1737.809,"body":"whose full time job it is to reduce"},{"startTime":1737.809,"endTime":1740.759,"body":"dependencies or whatever you have a"},{"startTime":1737.809,"endTime":1740.759,"body":"problem with organizational design that's"},{"startTime":1740.779,"endTime":1742.959,"body":"manifesting in your roadmap at that point."},{"startTime":1743.109,"endTime":1746.939,"body":"Yeah, it's quite a circus this whole"},{"startTime":1743.109,"endTime":1746.939,"body":"dependency management when you want"},{"startTime":1746.939,"endTime":1750.579,"body":"to nip it in the bud and just simply"},{"startTime":1746.939,"endTime":1750.579,"body":"Resolve those dependencies instead of"},{"startTime":1750.619,"endTime":1752.269,"body":"putting them on a wall with red string."},{"startTime":1752.419,"endTime":1754.139,"body":"Resolve them as fast as possible."},{"startTime":1754.359,"endTime":1755.189,"body":"Minimize them."},{"startTime":1755.339,"endTime":1756.459,"body":"I thought it was really interesting."},{"startTime":1756.459,"endTime":1757.609,"body":"Milestones, milestones."},{"startTime":1757.669,"endTime":1760.869,"body":"I really didn't think that would"},{"startTime":1757.669,"endTime":1760.869,"body":"be one of the top contenders"},{"startTime":1760.869,"endTime":1761.979,"body":"for our most viewed podcast."},{"startTime":1761.989,"endTime":1764.899,"body":"But I mean, honestly, it makes a lot"},{"startTime":1761.989,"endTime":1764.899,"body":"of sense because probably a lot of"},{"startTime":1764.899,"endTime":1768.139,"body":"scrum masters and, and really even"},{"startTime":1764.899,"endTime":1768.139,"body":"product people they probably have"},{"startTime":1768.139,"endTime":1772.049,"body":"the screws put to them to say, tell"},{"startTime":1768.139,"endTime":1772.049,"body":"me when X, Y, Z is going to be done."},{"startTime":1772.329,"endTime":1778.069,"body":"And, if I am a product manager in an"},{"startTime":1772.329,"endTime":1778.069,"body":"organization where my leadership dictates"},{"startTime":1778.069,"endTime":1782.369,"body":"to me you must get this done by this date"},{"startTime":1778.069,"endTime":1782.369,"body":"or whatever milestones make perfect sense."},{"startTime":1782.519,"endTime":1785.479,"body":"You can call them something else if you"},{"startTime":1782.519,"endTime":1785.479,"body":"like, but yeah, I mean, look, milestones"},{"startTime":1785.479,"endTime":1787.429,"body":"have been around for decades, right?"},{"startTime":1787.429,"endTime":1787.679,"body":"Sure."},{"startTime":1787.859,"endTime":1791.679,"body":"And one of the reasons why I think this"},{"startTime":1787.859,"endTime":1791.679,"body":"podcast was of interest to a lot of people"},{"startTime":1791.679,"endTime":1793.429,"body":"is because you've got people that came up."},{"startTime":1793.579,"endTime":1796.309,"body":"Through the the old ways of"},{"startTime":1793.579,"endTime":1796.309,"body":"working with milestones like"},{"startTime":1796.619,"endTime":1798.239,"body":"project managers who are now."},{"startTime":1798.3,"endTime":1801.409,"body":"Relabeled as scrum masters,"},{"startTime":1798.3,"endTime":1801.409,"body":"perhaps, or even product people."},{"startTime":1801.609,"endTime":1804.929,"body":"So they are familiar with the terminology"},{"startTime":1801.609,"endTime":1804.929,"body":"and how it was used in the past."},{"startTime":1805.079,"endTime":1805.969,"body":"So I think you're right."},{"startTime":1806.029,"endTime":1810.189,"body":"It's just a, it's just a tool and it"},{"startTime":1806.029,"endTime":1810.189,"body":"can be used going forward as well."},{"startTime":1810.269,"endTime":1815.099,"body":"It's also, it's, it's just not like"},{"startTime":1810.269,"endTime":1815.099,"body":"Agile, scrum, the scrum guide doesn't."},{"startTime":1815.424,"endTime":1819.444,"body":"Cover milestones in any way or form,"},{"startTime":1815.424,"endTime":1819.444,"body":"like product management is like in"},{"startTime":1819.444,"endTime":1823.014,"body":"another discipline that it, like"},{"startTime":1819.444,"endTime":1823.014,"body":"they don't really cover milestones,"},{"startTime":1823.089,"endTime":1826.609,"body":"or release management, which is"},{"startTime":1823.089,"endTime":1826.609,"body":"kind of in the same vein, right?"},{"startTime":1826.609,"endTime":1827.569,"body":"They don't, I broke it again."},{"startTime":1827.869,"endTime":1829.369,"body":"They don't really cover any of this."},{"startTime":1829.429,"endTime":1833.509,"body":"So it makes sense that people are"},{"startTime":1829.429,"endTime":1833.509,"body":"looking for these things Absolutely."},{"startTime":1833.509,"endTime":1833.959,"body":"Outta the internet."},{"startTime":1833.959,"endTime":1837.209,"body":"Which brings me to our"},{"startTime":1833.959,"endTime":1837.209,"body":"next Most viewed podcast."},{"startTime":1837.209,"endTime":1840.929,"body":"This is an interesting segue,"},{"startTime":1837.209,"endTime":1840.929,"body":"which is the Gantt charts in"},{"startTime":1841.049,"endTime":1842.579,"body":"agile software development."},{"startTime":1842.819,"endTime":1848.519,"body":"First of all, just to be super clear,"},{"startTime":1842.819,"endTime":1848.519,"body":"where's my camera just to be super clear."},{"startTime":1848.649,"endTime":1850.189,"body":"Gantt charts are ridiculous."},{"startTime":1850.349,"endTime":1851.379,"body":"You shouldn't do them."},{"startTime":1851.529,"endTime":1855.899,"body":"Yeah, Gantt charts, however, are the"},{"startTime":1851.529,"endTime":1855.899,"body":"the fabric on which milestones are hung."},{"startTime":1856.019,"endTime":1856.299,"body":"Right."},{"startTime":1856.319,"endTime":1858.039,"body":"Typically in the old way of working,"},{"startTime":1858.189,"endTime":1859.469,"body":"you shouldn't do Gantt charts."},{"startTime":1859.499,"endTime":1859.719,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":1859.719,"endTime":1861.039,"body":"Do this by this date"},{"startTime":1861.229,"endTime":1863.469,"body":"or else, or else, well, that's the thing."},{"startTime":1863.469,"endTime":1867.629,"body":"I mean, you can put out"},{"startTime":1863.469,"endTime":1867.629,"body":"aspirational dates, but don't kill"},{"startTime":1867.629,"endTime":1869.179,"body":"people if they don't make them."},{"startTime":1869.329,"endTime":1869.679,"body":"Right."},{"startTime":1869.819,"endTime":1872.979,"body":"It's the, or else piece that"},{"startTime":1869.819,"endTime":1872.979,"body":"makes them useless because people"},{"startTime":1872.979,"endTime":1875.269,"body":"are going to work under threat."},{"startTime":1875.359,"endTime":1878.659,"body":"And even if they magically"},{"startTime":1875.359,"endTime":1878.659,"body":"met one of those, just."},{"startTime":1878.809,"endTime":1879.769,"body":"Randomly, right?"},{"startTime":1879.919,"endTime":1882.639,"body":"What's the quality of that"},{"startTime":1879.919,"endTime":1882.639,"body":"delivery going to look like?"},{"startTime":1882.789,"endTime":1885.669,"body":"Because they were working"},{"startTime":1882.789,"endTime":1885.669,"body":"under pressure, under the gun."},{"startTime":1885.739,"endTime":1886.419,"body":"Too much pressure."},{"startTime":1886.599,"endTime":1887.299,"body":"Too much pressure!"},{"startTime":1887.449,"endTime":1887.739,"body":"Tweak!"},{"startTime":1887.889,"endTime":1888.519,"body":"Too much pressure!"},{"startTime":1888.669,"endTime":1890.599,"body":"I've got nothing good to"},{"startTime":1888.669,"endTime":1890.599,"body":"say against Gantt Charts."},{"startTime":1890.619,"endTime":1891.269,"body":"There is nothing"},{"startTime":1891.269,"endTime":1891.539,"body":"good to"},{"startTime":1891.549,"endTime":1892.879,"body":"say about Gantt Charts."},{"startTime":1893.029,"endTime":1896.379,"body":", in retrospect, sure, all day long."},{"startTime":1896.529,"endTime":1899.959,"body":"I'll give you a, I'll give you a"},{"startTime":1896.529,"endTime":1899.959,"body":"yesterday's weather of Gantt Charts."},{"startTime":1900.109,"endTime":1901.309,"body":"And it'll be correct all day long."},{"startTime":1901.319,"endTime":1901.959,"body":"All the time."},{"startTime":1902.019,"endTime":1902.429,"body":"Right?"},{"startTime":1902.519,"endTime":1905.194,"body":"But if you want Gantt"},{"startTime":1902.519,"endTime":1905.194,"body":"Charts Looking forward?"},{"startTime":1905.384,"endTime":1905.864,"body":"It's"},{"startTime":1905.864,"endTime":1909.414,"body":"really hard, though, for you know, a"},{"startTime":1905.864,"endTime":1909.414,"body":"lot of the people that say that came up"},{"startTime":1909.724,"endTime":1914.144,"body":"working through the Gantt charts method,"},{"startTime":1909.724,"endTime":1914.144,"body":"the traditional project management method."},{"startTime":1914.294,"endTime":1916.224,"body":"You can't wean off those people."},{"startTime":1916.274,"endTime":1918.214,"body":"this is the reason why I don't know."},{"startTime":1918.444,"endTime":1923.124,"body":"This is the reason why you have ALM"},{"startTime":1918.444,"endTime":1923.124,"body":"tools give you all these Gantt charts."},{"startTime":1923.274,"endTime":1926.864,"body":"They create like any product"},{"startTime":1923.274,"endTime":1926.864,"body":"planning tool they have a Gantt"},{"startTime":1926.874,"endTime":1928.964,"body":"chart view of your product."},{"startTime":1929.114,"endTime":1932.064,"body":"But their intent is not you"},{"startTime":1929.114,"endTime":1932.064,"body":"start there and you finish there."},{"startTime":1932.124,"endTime":1936.744,"body":"Their intent is, hey, if you're familiar"},{"startTime":1932.124,"endTime":1936.744,"body":"with this view Look, there it is, right?"},{"startTime":1936.744,"endTime":1937.194,"body":"That's it."},{"startTime":1937.254,"endTime":1938.814,"body":"That's what, that's how I use it."},{"startTime":1938.814,"endTime":1939.144,"body":"Anyway,"},{"startTime":1939.294,"endTime":1942.294,"body":"now's the time to say this"},{"startTime":1939.294,"endTime":1942.294,"body":"podcast is brought to you by"},{"startTime":1942.294,"endTime":1944.964,"body":"any a ALM tool, possibly Jira."},{"startTime":1945.024,"endTime":1949.739,"body":"It could be any a ALM tool that pays"},{"startTime":1945.024,"endTime":1949.739,"body":"us to give you project management tools"},{"startTime":1949.959,"endTime":1953.499,"body":"that don't really help you with your job,"},{"startTime":1949.959,"endTime":1953.499,"body":"but give me all the money in the world."},{"startTime":1953.629,"endTime":1956.529,"body":"We probably could do a"},{"startTime":1953.629,"endTime":1956.529,"body":"podcast on a dozen ways."},{"startTime":1956.679,"endTime":1959.649,"body":"of projecting what your"},{"startTime":1956.679,"endTime":1959.649,"body":"roadmap is going to be like."},{"startTime":1959.799,"endTime":1962.189,"body":"Creating and then projecting what"},{"startTime":1959.799,"endTime":1962.189,"body":"that roadmap is going to be like."},{"startTime":1962.339,"endTime":1966.369,"body":"And these companies, they just love"},{"startTime":1962.339,"endTime":1966.369,"body":"money so much they're just willing"},{"startTime":1966.369,"endTime":1969.699,"body":"to throw their principles out the"},{"startTime":1966.369,"endTime":1969.699,"body":"window just to collect a buck."},{"startTime":1969.979,"endTime":1970.799,"body":"So I agree."},{"startTime":1970.809,"endTime":1973.459,"body":"First of all, I think it's very"},{"startTime":1970.809,"endTime":1973.459,"body":"dangerous of these companies to do"},{"startTime":1973.459,"endTime":1976.939,"body":"that because what's going to happen"},{"startTime":1973.459,"endTime":1976.939,"body":"when these folks see the Gantt"},{"startTime":1976.939,"endTime":1979.939,"body":"charts, they're going to gravitate"},{"startTime":1976.939,"endTime":1979.939,"body":"back to what they know, and they're"},{"startTime":1979.939,"endTime":1981.759,"body":"going to ignore the agility aspects."},{"startTime":1981.759,"endTime":1983.989,"body":"And they're going to say, this"},{"startTime":1981.759,"endTime":1983.989,"body":"is what we have to do is just"},{"startTime":1983.999,"endTime":1985.719,"body":"now become a Gantt chart, right?"},{"startTime":1985.769,"endTime":1986.689,"body":"I mean, right."},{"startTime":1986.729,"endTime":1988.749,"body":"May as well just give"},{"startTime":1986.729,"endTime":1988.749,"body":"them Excel or something."},{"startTime":1988.979,"endTime":1989.239,"body":"Well,"},{"startTime":1989.239,"endTime":1993.579,"body":"you know, the other, dangerous part"},{"startTime":1989.239,"endTime":1993.579,"body":"of this podcast on Gantt charts is"},{"startTime":1993.599,"endTime":1998.579,"body":"the more these vendor tools that"},{"startTime":1993.599,"endTime":1998.579,"body":"are quote, Agile tools integrate"},{"startTime":1998.579,"endTime":2001.589,"body":"this functionality in order to make"},{"startTime":1998.579,"endTime":2001.589,"body":"a buck, in order to make a sale."},{"startTime":2001.739,"endTime":2007.279,"body":"The more they're propagating, they're"},{"startTime":2001.739,"endTime":2007.279,"body":"like, oh, Gantt charts are agile, totally."},{"startTime":2007.449,"endTime":2009.849,"body":"The more they're"},{"startTime":2007.449,"endTime":2009.849,"body":"propagating bad practices."},{"startTime":2010.019,"endTime":2010.879,"body":"That's what I'm saying, it's"},{"startTime":2010.879,"endTime":2011.459,"body":"dangerous."},{"startTime":2011.609,"endTime":2014.249,"body":"That's why, it's dangerous"},{"startTime":2011.609,"endTime":2014.249,"body":"to agility, basically."},{"startTime":2014.399,"endTime":2016.749,"body":"Alright, well, look, we"},{"startTime":2014.399,"endTime":2016.749,"body":"need to take a turn from the"},{"startTime":2016.749,"endTime":2018.279,"body":"negative back to the positive."},{"startTime":2018.549,"endTime":2022.419,"body":"And speaking of positive"},{"startTime":2018.549,"endTime":2022.419,"body":"we're gonna go to episode 120."},{"startTime":2022.699,"endTime":2026.589,"body":"Did AirBnB fire their product"},{"startTime":2022.699,"endTime":2026.589,"body":"managers because that's fun."},{"startTime":2026.739,"endTime":2032.179,"body":"This was this was our foray into,"},{"startTime":2026.739,"endTime":2032.179,"body":"like hijacking a current thread,"},{"startTime":2032.279,"endTime":2033.879,"body":"a current trend in the market."},{"startTime":2034.029,"endTime":2037.039,"body":"About I was going to say,"},{"startTime":2034.029,"endTime":2037.039,"body":"calling out Brian Chesky."},{"startTime":2037.089,"endTime":2037.905,"body":"I don't know if it was really something."},{"startTime":2037.905,"endTime":2038.849,"body":"No, it wasn't just like."},{"startTime":2038.899,"endTime":2039.209,"body":"So this"},{"startTime":2039.209,"endTime":2039.229,"body":"is."},{"startTime":2039.259,"endTime":2039.939,"body":"Analysis."},{"startTime":2039.979,"endTime":2040.309,"body":"Analysis."},{"startTime":2040.309,"endTime":2045.169,"body":"Yeah, it's analysis of a topical news"},{"startTime":2040.309,"endTime":2045.169,"body":"item that was very popular at the time."},{"startTime":2045.259,"endTime":2045.509,"body":"Right?"},{"startTime":2045.539,"endTime":2047.029,"body":"It was all over social media."},{"startTime":2047.079,"endTime":2047.349,"body":"Mm hmm."},{"startTime":2047.519,"endTime":2049.129,"body":"And so we figured, why not?"},{"startTime":2049.189,"endTime":2049.479,"body":"Right?"},{"startTime":2049.529,"endTime":2049.729,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":2049.729,"endTime":2050.639,"body":"People are, people are."},{"startTime":2050.709,"endTime":2050.939,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":2050.939,"endTime":2051.749,"body":"Considering this."},{"startTime":2051.899,"endTime":2054.569,"body":"And yeah, we, we did a"},{"startTime":2051.899,"endTime":2054.569,"body":"pretty decent job, I thought."},{"startTime":2054.629,"endTime":2058.919,"body":"It's probably about, again, maybe"},{"startTime":2054.629,"endTime":2058.919,"body":"15 or so subtopics under this one."},{"startTime":2059.069,"endTime":2060.099,"body":"This was a full one."},{"startTime":2060.149,"endTime":2062.169,"body":"This was a full, not a"},{"startTime":2060.149,"endTime":2062.169,"body":"clip, this was a full"},{"startTime":2062.169,"endTime":2062.489,"body":"podcast."},{"startTime":2062.549,"endTime":2062.919,"body":"Oh yeah."},{"startTime":2063.069,"endTime":2065.789,"body":"we're getting to the point where"},{"startTime":2063.069,"endTime":2065.789,"body":"like, our most viewed podcasts"},{"startTime":2065.939,"endTime":2067.319,"body":"a lot of these are over an hour."},{"startTime":2067.469,"endTime":2070.189,"body":"Other than the clips, a lot"},{"startTime":2067.469,"endTime":2070.189,"body":"of these are over an hour."},{"startTime":2070.339,"endTime":2071.189,"body":"Full podcast."},{"startTime":2071.349,"endTime":2075.759,"body":"Yeah, but the views are over an hour and"},{"startTime":2071.349,"endTime":2075.759,"body":"it, they're our most successful videos."},{"startTime":2075.999,"endTime":2079.689,"body":"Like this Is, this is honestly, this is"},{"startTime":2075.999,"endTime":2079.689,"body":"like, this is saying something to me."},{"startTime":2079.719,"endTime":2079.809,"body":"Mm-Hmm."},{"startTime":2079.839,"endTime":2083.799,"body":"And I, I was editing in one 20,"},{"startTime":2079.839,"endTime":2083.799,"body":"so if it, if it ended up being an"},{"startTime":2083.804,"endTime":2087.039,"body":"hour and three minutes at one 20,"},{"startTime":2083.804,"endTime":2087.039,"body":"I know we went, we easily must've"},{"startTime":2087.039,"endTime":2087.749,"body":"recorded for an hour and a half."},{"startTime":2087.929,"endTime":2092.249,"body":"Other than Brian Chesky's like hot takes"},{"startTime":2087.929,"endTime":2092.249,"body":"and the clickbait or whatever, like the,"},{"startTime":2092.299,"endTime":2097.769,"body":"the analysis here is he claims that he"},{"startTime":2092.299,"endTime":2097.769,"body":"got rid of product management in the"},{"startTime":2097.799,"endTime":2099.839,"body":"typical traditional quote, traditional."},{"startTime":2099.989,"endTime":2102.969,"body":"You know, style of product management,"},{"startTime":2099.989,"endTime":2102.969,"body":"but what he was really saying was"},{"startTime":2103.209,"endTime":2106.399,"body":"like I, I need product managers who"},{"startTime":2103.209,"endTime":2106.399,"body":"also understand product marketing"},{"startTime":2106.589,"endTime":2108.479,"body":"and also understand design, right?"},{"startTime":2108.479,"endTime":2113.999,"body":"He kind of scraped off the top of"},{"startTime":2108.479,"endTime":2113.999,"body":"talking about, Marketing, but he really"},{"startTime":2114.329,"endTime":2118.639,"body":"dove deep on talking about I need"},{"startTime":2114.329,"endTime":2118.639,"body":"product managers who also understand"},{"startTime":2118.639,"endTime":2123.829,"body":"design it was real Important to him in"},{"startTime":2118.639,"endTime":2123.829,"body":"his organization the product managers"},{"startTime":2123.829,"endTime":2127.159,"body":"could understand design and I've"},{"startTime":2123.829,"endTime":2127.159,"body":"watched him in a few other videos."},{"startTime":2127.159,"endTime":2128.749,"body":"I think what he means by design."},{"startTime":2128.749,"endTime":2130.369,"body":"Is Systems thinking."},{"startTime":2130.369,"endTime":2130.549,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":2130.549,"endTime":2131.119,"body":"It is more of a"},{"startTime":2131.119,"endTime":2132.379,"body":"holistic viewpoint, right."},{"startTime":2132.379,"endTime":2135.649,"body":"Than he's taking, he's not not"},{"startTime":2132.379,"endTime":2135.649,"body":"thinking tactically designing anything"},{"startTime":2135.889,"endTime":2136.549,"body":"necessarily."},{"startTime":2136.554,"endTime":2140.899,"body":"And, and since this video, I've"},{"startTime":2136.554,"endTime":2140.899,"body":"kept Airbnb kind of in my peripheral"},{"startTime":2140.899,"endTime":2143.349,"body":"vision or peripheral vision."},{"startTime":2143.349,"endTime":2144.759,"body":"One of the I, I've, Ferral"},{"startTime":2145.074,"endTime":2146.094,"body":"is an R in there"},{"startTime":2146.094,"endTime":2146.484,"body":"a second."},{"startTime":2146.484,"endTime":2147.204,"body":"R Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah."},{"startTime":2147.354,"endTime":2151.811,"body":", it's on my radar and I've, I've"},{"startTime":2147.354,"endTime":2151.811,"body":"kind of been watching Brian Chesky"},{"startTime":2151.811,"endTime":2156.871,"body":"as he kind of recaps what he said"},{"startTime":2151.811,"endTime":2156.871,"body":"here in this video that we watched."},{"startTime":2157.151,"endTime":2160.851,"body":"And yeah, I, I really think design thing"},{"startTime":2157.151,"endTime":2160.851,"body":"is really where he was going with this,"},{"startTime":2161.091,"endTime":2162.761,"body":"which is I need my product managers."},{"startTime":2162.951,"endTime":2165.711,"body":"To be thinking of the,"},{"startTime":2162.951,"endTime":2165.711,"body":"the, the holistic view."},{"startTime":2165.951,"endTime":2168.411,"body":"I need them to be"},{"startTime":2165.951,"endTime":2168.411,"body":"coordinating with each other."},{"startTime":2168.411,"endTime":2170.841,"body":"Like they're, they're not"},{"startTime":2168.411,"endTime":2170.841,"body":"just in their little silo."},{"startTime":2170.871,"endTime":2171.081,"body":"Right."},{"startTime":2171.081,"endTime":2176.111,"body":"Their little vertical slice"},{"startTime":2171.081,"endTime":2176.111,"body":"of oh, growth or whatever."},{"startTime":2176.111,"endTime":2177.701,"body":"Retention or whatever you mean."},{"startTime":2177.881,"endTime":2181.301,"body":"I really need them kind of talking to each"},{"startTime":2177.881,"endTime":2181.301,"body":"other, so like, this would be a good one."},{"startTime":2181.451,"endTime":2185.601,"body":"To revisit in terms of, well, the product"},{"startTime":2181.451,"endTime":2185.601,"body":"manager should be in their vertical and"},{"startTime":2185.601,"endTime":2189.851,"body":"they should be concentrating on features"},{"startTime":2185.601,"endTime":2189.851,"body":"that hit their OKRs or whatever, right?"},{"startTime":2189.851,"endTime":2193.411,"body":"And they're a little vertical, but"},{"startTime":2189.851,"endTime":2193.411,"body":"also they should be in a horizontal"},{"startTime":2193.431,"endTime":2195.871,"body":"with the other product managers"},{"startTime":2193.431,"endTime":2195.871,"body":"to say, well, what are you doing?"},{"startTime":2196.021,"endTime":2198.151,"body":"What are you, what, what"},{"startTime":2196.021,"endTime":2198.151,"body":"features are you introducing?"},{"startTime":2198.491,"endTime":2200.051,"body":"Let me be in the know about that."},{"startTime":2200.061,"endTime":2203.461,"body":"And let me think about"},{"startTime":2200.061,"endTime":2203.461,"body":"how I could enable that."},{"startTime":2203.611,"endTime":2206.561,"body":"I feel that is a level"},{"startTime":2203.611,"endTime":2206.561,"body":"of coordination that."},{"startTime":2206.711,"endTime":2211.181,"body":"you know, after 10 years of running"},{"startTime":2206.711,"endTime":2211.181,"body":"Airbnb, maybe he feels is lacking."},{"startTime":2211.381,"endTime":2212.021,"body":"I have no"},{"startTime":2212.041,"endTime":2213.501,"body":"beef with his thinking here, right?"},{"startTime":2213.541,"endTime":2217.241,"body":"I'm a fan of systems thinking I"},{"startTime":2213.541,"endTime":2217.241,"body":"try to implement some of this."},{"startTime":2217.581,"endTime":2219.811,"body":"Well, before this episode, right?"},{"startTime":2219.961,"endTime":2224.121,"body":"And there was no vehicle at"},{"startTime":2219.961,"endTime":2224.121,"body":"work where product managers are"},{"startTime":2224.121,"endTime":2226.041,"body":"within their siloed environments."},{"startTime":2226.211,"endTime":2231.501,"body":"So just as a facilitator, I created"},{"startTime":2226.211,"endTime":2231.501,"body":"a meeting on the calendar once a"},{"startTime":2231.501,"endTime":2234.991,"body":"week, half hour initially the product"},{"startTime":2231.501,"endTime":2234.991,"body":"posse product people get together"},{"startTime":2234.991,"endTime":2238.951,"body":"and talk about how I can enable you"},{"startTime":2234.991,"endTime":2238.951,"body":"or how someone blocking you, right?"},{"startTime":2239.101,"endTime":2240.611,"body":"It has taken off."},{"startTime":2240.711,"endTime":2243.391,"body":"So that's, I mean, they, they"},{"startTime":2240.711,"endTime":2243.391,"body":"seem to get value out of it."},{"startTime":2243.541,"endTime":2246.611,"body":"Which is really good because otherwise"},{"startTime":2243.541,"endTime":2246.611,"body":"there's really no way of knowing"},{"startTime":2246.611,"endTime":2250.321,"body":"what some other product managers"},{"startTime":2246.611,"endTime":2250.321,"body":"working on for what time frame, right?"},{"startTime":2250.351,"endTime":2254.011,"body":"So that, that I think what Chesky"},{"startTime":2250.351,"endTime":2254.011,"body":"was getting at is, it's true."},{"startTime":2254.041,"endTime":2257.691,"body":"Unfortunately, though, how many"},{"startTime":2254.041,"endTime":2257.691,"body":"product managers do you know that"},{"startTime":2257.861,"endTime":2261.901,"body":"lift their head up above their screens"},{"startTime":2257.861,"endTime":2261.901,"body":"and say, let me look laterally?"},{"startTime":2261.921,"endTime":2264.511,"body":"Because they're incented"},{"startTime":2261.921,"endTime":2264.511,"body":"to look only down at their"},{"startTime":2264.511,"endTime":2264.971,"body":"screens."},{"startTime":2264.971,"endTime":2265.291,"body":"Correct."},{"startTime":2265.291,"endTime":2265.511,"body":"Yes."},{"startTime":2265.521,"endTime":2266.701,"body":"They need to be incented."},{"startTime":2267.016,"endTime":2272.256,"body":"To help each other out or if you're in"},{"startTime":2267.016,"endTime":2272.256,"body":"some kind of like group Functionality"},{"startTime":2272.256,"endTime":2274.806,"body":"where you have a group product manager,"},{"startTime":2272.256,"endTime":2274.806,"body":"whatever They need to be incented to"},{"startTime":2274.896,"endTime":2278.296,"body":"help their product managers reach out"},{"startTime":2274.896,"endTime":2278.296,"body":"to other product managers They maybe"},{"startTime":2278.296,"endTime":2282.516,"body":"this is leading to the to Brian's"},{"startTime":2278.296,"endTime":2282.516,"body":"gripes about okay ours like the okay"},{"startTime":2282.516,"endTime":2287.921,"body":"our needs to be Needs to incent your"},{"startTime":2282.516,"endTime":2287.921,"body":"product management department to talk to"},{"startTime":2287.921,"endTime":2289.761,"body":"each other, to just talk to each other."},{"startTime":2289.771,"endTime":2291.301,"body":"First of all, let's start with that."},{"startTime":2291.551,"endTime":2294.761,"body":"Just talk to each other, go"},{"startTime":2291.551,"endTime":2294.761,"body":"to each other's plannings"},{"startTime":2294.761,"endTime":2296.051,"body":"and be a fly on the wall."},{"startTime":2296.251,"endTime":2298.741,"body":"Just listen to what's"},{"startTime":2296.251,"endTime":2298.741,"body":"happening and understand what's"},{"startTime":2298.741,"endTime":2300.481,"body":"happening in the whole system."},{"startTime":2300.631,"endTime":2302.061,"body":"So that you can figure"},{"startTime":2300.631,"endTime":2302.061,"body":"out where to plug in."},{"startTime":2302.111,"endTime":2304.961,"body":"Like maybe you don't need to, maybe you"},{"startTime":2302.111,"endTime":2304.961,"body":"don't need to build that whole component."},{"startTime":2304.981,"endTime":2306.501,"body":"Maybe another team built it for you."},{"startTime":2306.751,"endTime":2311.191,"body":"Maybe you don't need to redo a"},{"startTime":2306.751,"endTime":2311.191,"body":"whole new piece of functionality."},{"startTime":2311.471,"endTime":2315.021,"body":"Maybe you can reuse something"},{"startTime":2311.471,"endTime":2315.021,"body":"or maybe extend slightly."},{"startTime":2315.261,"endTime":2316.331,"body":"Something in another team,"},{"startTime":2316.351,"endTime":2318.231,"body":"we're going to learn"},{"startTime":2316.351,"endTime":2318.231,"body":"something from somebody else."},{"startTime":2318.251,"endTime":2319.971,"body":"We could just buy that"},{"startTime":2318.251,"endTime":2319.971,"body":"functionality, right?"},{"startTime":2319.971,"endTime":2321.241,"body":"So, yeah, I agree."},{"startTime":2321.301,"endTime":2324.721,"body":"I mean, in systems thinking the"},{"startTime":2321.301,"endTime":2324.721,"body":"values at the interfaces, right."},{"startTime":2324.751,"endTime":2325.061,"body":"And"},{"startTime":2325.071,"endTime":2326.341,"body":"that's what they're not doing."},{"startTime":2326.371,"endTime":2326.651,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":2326.801,"endTime":2331.946,"body":"You you just lit a fire in my mind"},{"startTime":2326.801,"endTime":2331.946,"body":"about build versus buy like the, the,"},{"startTime":2331.956,"endTime":2334.406,"body":"the, the decision of build a feature."},{"startTime":2334.601,"endTime":2337.731,"body":"Versus buy a feature in this"},{"startTime":2334.601,"endTime":2337.731,"body":"case, it could be build a"},{"startTime":2337.731,"endTime":2339.431,"body":"feature versus extend something."},{"startTime":2339.431,"endTime":2344.511,"body":"And then the team did slightly for"},{"startTime":2339.431,"endTime":2344.511,"body":"my data or my app or my whatever."},{"startTime":2344.561,"endTime":2344.741,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":2344.741,"endTime":2345.991,"body":"So leverage something that exists."},{"startTime":2345.991,"endTime":2346.261,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":2346.311,"endTime":2346.511,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":2346.661,"endTime":2351.071,"body":"Like looking to reuse pieces of"},{"startTime":2346.661,"endTime":2351.071,"body":"development rather than like, Oh,"},{"startTime":2351.071,"endTime":2352.401,"body":"I've got a whole development team."},{"startTime":2352.401,"endTime":2354.201,"body":"I'm going to spend a"},{"startTime":2352.401,"endTime":2354.201,"body":"quarter and build something."},{"startTime":2354.351,"endTime":2354.961,"body":"Like, you know what I mean?"},{"startTime":2354.961,"endTime":2356.591,"body":"Like rather than doing that."},{"startTime":2356.741,"endTime":2360.051,"body":"The reason that you might not look at"},{"startTime":2356.741,"endTime":2360.051,"body":"it like that or might not do that is"},{"startTime":2360.051,"endTime":2362.661,"body":"number one You might not be aware which"},{"startTime":2360.051,"endTime":2362.661,"body":"is what we're talking about or number"},{"startTime":2362.661,"endTime":2367.881,"body":"two You might not be incented on like"},{"startTime":2362.661,"endTime":2367.881,"body":"well if I just extend this other part of"},{"startTime":2367.891,"endTime":2372.311,"body":"the organization If I just extend their"},{"startTime":2367.891,"endTime":2372.311,"body":"feature that they built like it's gonna"},{"startTime":2372.321,"endTime":2376.921,"body":"go on their numbers So it won't really"},{"startTime":2372.321,"endTime":2376.921,"body":"look to me like I built my own I mean"},{"startTime":2376.961,"endTime":2380.816,"body":"like you didn't build it you just You just"},{"startTime":2376.961,"endTime":2380.816,"body":"added another checkbox or added another"},{"startTime":2380.826,"endTime":2384.776,"body":"thing to it or added a metric that you"},{"startTime":2380.826,"endTime":2384.776,"body":"can measure and expose it on your side"},{"startTime":2384.776,"endTime":2386.726,"body":"of the app, but that other team built it."},{"startTime":2386.736,"endTime":2388.366,"body":"So that other team is"},{"startTime":2386.736,"endTime":2388.366,"body":"going to get the credit."},{"startTime":2388.516,"endTime":2392.206,"body":"So in this, in this case, you might shy"},{"startTime":2388.516,"endTime":2392.206,"body":"away from doing something like that."},{"startTime":2392.406,"endTime":2395.646,"body":"Whereas if you're all talking"},{"startTime":2392.406,"endTime":2395.646,"body":"together, and you have the customer"},{"startTime":2395.876,"endTime":2400.376,"body":"in, in mind at the end, you might"},{"startTime":2395.876,"endTime":2400.376,"body":"say, well, it's faster to get this as"},{"startTime":2400.376,"endTime":2402.556,"body":"a customer to rush it out the door."},{"startTime":2402.706,"endTime":2403.746,"body":"And get the feedback."},{"startTime":2403.856,"endTime":2406.966,"body":"Yeah, there's a million ways to go"},{"startTime":2403.856,"endTime":2406.966,"body":"with the, with that, with that podcast."},{"startTime":2407.116,"endTime":2409.426,"body":"The last thing I want"},{"startTime":2407.116,"endTime":2409.426,"body":"to highlight today is."},{"startTime":2409.576,"endTime":2412.776,"body":"Agile podcast number two, this"},{"startTime":2409.576,"endTime":2412.776,"body":"is before the name change, Agile"},{"startTime":2412.776,"endTime":2417.586,"body":"podcast number two was, was titled,"},{"startTime":2412.776,"endTime":2417.586,"body":"New Product Owners, Not Getting"},{"startTime":2417.586,"endTime":2419.206,"body":"Fired, and Meet Them Where They Are."},{"startTime":2419.356,"endTime":2422.666,"body":"That was, that was our, it was a,"},{"startTime":2419.356,"endTime":2422.666,"body":"it was a potpourri of different."},{"startTime":2422.666,"endTime":2423.196,"body":"Potpourri."},{"startTime":2423.196,"endTime":2423.776,"body":"That's right."},{"startTime":2423.776,"endTime":2423.976,"body":"That's right."},{"startTime":2423.976,"endTime":2424.666,"body":"I love the French."},{"startTime":2424.816,"endTime":2426.586,"body":"This was way, way early."},{"startTime":2426.911,"endTime":2429.551,"body":"It was where we was"},{"startTime":2426.911,"endTime":2429.551,"body":"basically not anything."},{"startTime":2429.551,"endTime":2430.581,"body":"I don't think that's right."},{"startTime":2430.581,"endTime":2430.901,"body":"This is like"},{"startTime":2431.071,"endTime":2432.041,"body":"two hour podcast."},{"startTime":2432.191,"endTime":2432.611,"body":"That's right."},{"startTime":2432.781,"endTime":2438.291,"body":"And, and out of those two hours, I think"},{"startTime":2432.781,"endTime":2438.291,"body":"I, I feel like it was, it's not true."},{"startTime":2438.291,"endTime":2438.981,"body":"This is not true."},{"startTime":2438.981,"endTime":2443.321,"body":"Statistically, metrically,"},{"startTime":2438.981,"endTime":2443.321,"body":"philosophically, spiritually at all."},{"startTime":2443.471,"endTime":2447.361,"body":"But I feel like out of these two hours"},{"startTime":2443.471,"endTime":2447.361,"body":"out of these hour and a half, whatever,"},{"startTime":2447.361,"endTime":2452.841,"body":"two hours, I feel like I hated on"},{"startTime":2447.361,"endTime":2452.841,"body":"Spotify for an hour of this podcast."},{"startTime":2452.921,"endTime":2453.431,"body":"It's not true."},{"startTime":2453.431,"endTime":2455.131,"body":"It was actually like 12"},{"startTime":2453.431,"endTime":2455.131,"body":"minutes or something like that."},{"startTime":2455.131,"endTime":2459.291,"body":"this is the podcast where we"},{"startTime":2455.131,"endTime":2459.291,"body":"touched on Spotify's framework."},{"startTime":2459.441,"endTime":2466.121,"body":"And also, also we touched on a little"},{"startTime":2459.441,"endTime":2466.121,"body":"article that here we are several years"},{"startTime":2466.121,"endTime":2472.321,"body":"later, the article was, called rebranding"},{"startTime":2466.121,"endTime":2472.321,"body":"the Scrum Master role in tech orgs."},{"startTime":2472.561,"endTime":2478.031,"body":"It was posted on Capital One's"},{"startTime":2472.561,"endTime":2478.031,"body":"website, but it was since removed"},{"startTime":2478.341,"endTime":2482.461,"body":"from Capital One's website"},{"startTime":2478.341,"endTime":2482.461,"body":"for mysterious circumstances."},{"startTime":2482.801,"endTime":2484.451,"body":"I feel like I'm cutting a promo right now."},{"startTime":2484.601,"endTime":2485.671,"body":"I gotta whisper that part."},{"startTime":2485.881,"endTime":2486.621,"body":"Mysterious"},{"startTime":2486.631,"endTime":2487.391,"body":"circumstances."},{"startTime":2487.661,"endTime":2491.471,"body":"the article that we reference"},{"startTime":2487.661,"endTime":2491.471,"body":"in this podcast doesn't exist"},{"startTime":2491.471,"endTime":2495.841,"body":"anymore because Capital One has"},{"startTime":2491.471,"endTime":2495.841,"body":"since fired all these people,"},{"startTime":2495.991,"endTime":2497.091,"body":"including one of the"},{"startTime":2497.091,"endTime":2497.706,"body":"authors."},{"startTime":2497.856,"endTime":2499.336,"body":"I don't know if they"},{"startTime":2497.856,"endTime":2499.336,"body":"fired one of the authors."},{"startTime":2499.336,"endTime":2500.936,"body":"I think he just randomly moved on."},{"startTime":2501.086,"endTime":2502.146,"body":"Mysteriously."},{"startTime":2502.206,"endTime":2505.566,"body":"So it's pretty easy to, I don't"},{"startTime":2502.206,"endTime":2505.566,"body":"know how deep I want to go here."},{"startTime":2505.566,"endTime":2506.816,"body":"No, not deep at all."},{"startTime":2506.846,"endTime":2511.046,"body":"It's pretty easy to go find the original"},{"startTime":2506.846,"endTime":2511.046,"body":"article and look at the two authors"},{"startTime":2511.076,"endTime":2512.656,"body":"and look up their LinkedIn profiles."},{"startTime":2512.666,"endTime":2512.956,"body":"Sure."},{"startTime":2513.106,"endTime":2516.976,"body":"One of them has, one of them"},{"startTime":2513.106,"endTime":2516.976,"body":"left Capital One really not too"},{"startTime":2516.976,"endTime":2518.506,"body":"long after writing this article."},{"startTime":2518.826,"endTime":2522.456,"body":"The other one stayed with Capital"},{"startTime":2518.826,"endTime":2522.456,"body":"One their whole career and, and"},{"startTime":2522.466,"endTime":2524.646,"body":"made a pretty good path for himself."},{"startTime":2524.796,"endTime":2527.606,"body":"I'm not, I'm, I'm gonna pivot now"},{"startTime":2524.796,"endTime":2527.606,"body":"because I'm not trying to make a,"},{"startTime":2527.616,"endTime":2530.236,"body":"I'm not trying to make a statement"},{"startTime":2527.616,"endTime":2530.236,"body":"about either of their careers."},{"startTime":2530.346,"endTime":2533.216,"body":"But I, I will make a"},{"startTime":2530.346,"endTime":2533.216,"body":"statement about this article."},{"startTime":2533.366,"endTime":2537.596,"body":"Everything we read in this article"},{"startTime":2533.366,"endTime":2537.596,"body":"on that podcast about stamping out"},{"startTime":2537.596,"endTime":2543.176,"body":"their own need for the scrum master"},{"startTime":2537.596,"endTime":2543.176,"body":"to not just do scrum mastery and team"},{"startTime":2543.176,"endTime":2544.806,"body":"coordination and team development."},{"startTime":2544.816,"endTime":2550.436,"body":"They should do more technical things and"},{"startTime":2544.816,"endTime":2550.436,"body":"in the article it says another side effect"},{"startTime":2550.586,"endTime":2555.476,"body":"of moving to a more quote, technical"},{"startTime":2550.586,"endTime":2555.476,"body":"agile role focused on delivery is that it"},{"startTime":2555.476,"endTime":2561.916,"body":"gives the team a second set of eyes, on"},{"startTime":2555.476,"endTime":2561.916,"body":"design, and you can get into to figuring"},{"startTime":2561.946,"endTime":2566.086,"body":"out different methodologies that work"},{"startTime":2561.946,"endTime":2566.086,"body":"best to the team, like Ban or XP or Agile."},{"startTime":2566.336,"endTime":2570.396,"body":"And also he ends the article saying"},{"startTime":2566.336,"endTime":2570.396,"body":"you have to roll up your sleeves and"},{"startTime":2570.396,"endTime":2573.096,"body":"quote, Getting their hands dirty."},{"startTime":2573.246,"endTime":2577.801,"body":"The implication here is that scrum masters"},{"startTime":2573.246,"endTime":2577.801,"body":"are like, A management class that really"},{"startTime":2577.801,"endTime":2582.126,"body":"don't, they're really not involved in"},{"startTime":2577.801,"endTime":2582.126,"body":"the work and we, we really need them"},{"startTime":2582.126,"endTime":2587.146,"body":"to be more technical and they need to"},{"startTime":2582.126,"endTime":2587.146,"body":"have quote, sharper, technical chops."},{"startTime":2587.296,"endTime":2589.256,"body":"All these are quotes"},{"startTime":2587.296,"endTime":2589.256,"body":"out of the real article."},{"startTime":2589.416,"endTime":2593.336,"body":"Like again, are these actual Scrum Master?"},{"startTime":2593.486,"endTime":2594.266,"body":"Arguably."},{"startTime":2594.326,"endTime":2594.816,"body":"Arguably."},{"startTime":2594.956,"endTime":2595.526,"body":"However."},{"startTime":2595.676,"endTime":2598.946,"body":"However, we called this"},{"startTime":2595.676,"endTime":2598.946,"body":"two years ago, right?"},{"startTime":2598.956,"endTime":2602.476,"body":"Nothing in here about value,"},{"startTime":2598.956,"endTime":2602.476,"body":"nothing in here about customers,"},{"startTime":2602.696,"endTime":2606.336,"body":"nothing in here about helping"},{"startTime":2602.696,"endTime":2606.336,"body":"product prove value to the business."},{"startTime":2606.486,"endTime":2607.956,"body":"Those are all red flags."},{"startTime":2608.156,"endTime":2611.846,"body":"Like if you were to read this job"},{"startTime":2608.156,"endTime":2611.846,"body":"description and see nothing about value"},{"startTime":2611.846,"endTime":2615.546,"body":"to the business or the customer or"},{"startTime":2611.846,"endTime":2615.546,"body":"the value stream that it's producing."},{"startTime":2615.696,"endTime":2619.636,"body":"I'd be real worried about taking"},{"startTime":2615.696,"endTime":2619.636,"body":"this job because you could be seen"},{"startTime":2619.676,"endTime":2622.216,"body":"as overhead, which might've happened."},{"startTime":2622.236,"endTime":2623.336,"body":"History has proven."},{"startTime":2623.536,"endTime":2624.836,"body":"Yeah, actually happened here."},{"startTime":2625.016,"endTime":2628.946,"body":"It must've been so embarrassing"},{"startTime":2625.016,"endTime":2628.946,"body":"for them to pull this blog"},{"startTime":2628.956,"endTime":2630.436,"body":"down off their official site."},{"startTime":2630.586,"endTime":2630.876,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":2631.006,"endTime":2633.716,"body":"It, it behooves us to say"},{"startTime":2631.006,"endTime":2633.716,"body":"they actually in that."},{"startTime":2633.866,"endTime":2638.836,"body":"Early blog that we just deferred"},{"startTime":2633.866,"endTime":2638.836,"body":"to, they rebranded Scrum Masters to"},{"startTime":2639.076,"endTime":2641.456,"body":"ADLs, Agile Delivery Leads, right?"},{"startTime":2641.606,"endTime":2645.286,"body":"But yeah, this whole article is"},{"startTime":2641.606,"endTime":2645.286,"body":"Miraculously vanished along with a"},{"startTime":2645.316,"endTime":2648.336,"body":"thousand agilists all ADLs, gone."},{"startTime":2648.486,"endTime":2649.886,"body":"In one fell swoop."},{"startTime":2650.036,"endTime":2653.686,"body":"You know, the funny thing about this"},{"startTime":2650.036,"endTime":2653.686,"body":"is, the scaled agile framework they"},{"startTime":2653.686,"endTime":2655.786,"body":"still have it as a success case."},{"startTime":2655.936,"endTime":2660.746,"body":"Capital one benefits of safe for"},{"startTime":2655.936,"endTime":2660.746,"body":"financial services article on their"},{"startTime":2660.746,"endTime":2663.326,"body":"website as a kind of like a banner level."},{"startTime":2663.586,"endTime":2663.796,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":2663.796,"endTime":2664.856,"body":"Success case study."},{"startTime":2664.856,"endTime":2665.306,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":2665.556,"endTime":2665.806,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":2665.806,"endTime":2669.826,"body":"So I don't think they got the memo or"},{"startTime":2665.806,"endTime":2669.826,"body":"maybe they did get the memo, but they just"},{"startTime":2669.826,"endTime":2672.046,"body":"moved too slowly to pull it down as well."},{"startTime":2672.196,"endTime":2673.166,"body":"So there we have it."},{"startTime":2673.316,"endTime":2675.356,"body":"Well, I don't get victory laps often."},{"startTime":2675.386,"endTime":2678.496,"body":"But that's about the amount that"},{"startTime":2675.386,"endTime":2678.496,"body":"we allow ourselves to indulge."},{"startTime":2678.686,"endTime":2681.246,"body":"I'll have to say anyone"},{"startTime":2678.686,"endTime":2681.246,"body":"with a negative critique."},{"startTime":2681.396,"endTime":2684.256,"body":"Of the last five minutes of the podcast."},{"startTime":2684.406,"endTime":2685.106,"body":"I agree with you."},{"startTime":2685.376,"endTime":2686.656,"body":"It was a negative critique."},{"startTime":2686.796,"endTime":2690.826,"body":"However keep their resume updated"},{"startTime":2686.796,"endTime":2690.826,"body":"because if you, if you get stuck in"},{"startTime":2690.826,"endTime":2694.656,"body":"a spot like this, like you, you gotta"},{"startTime":2690.826,"endTime":2694.656,"body":"watch out for yourself in your career."},{"startTime":2694.656,"endTime":2694.976,"body":"Okay."},{"startTime":2695.226,"endTime":2697.676,"body":"If your company is saying"},{"startTime":2695.226,"endTime":2697.676,"body":"like, Hey, like these industry"},{"startTime":2697.676,"endTime":2699.366,"body":"standards I don't know about this."},{"startTime":2699.366,"endTime":2702.846,"body":"Like we, we could, we could squeeze"},{"startTime":2699.366,"endTime":2702.846,"body":"employees in this other job role and get,"},{"startTime":2702.936,"endTime":2707.416,"body":"get 20 percent more productivity out of"},{"startTime":2702.936,"endTime":2707.416,"body":"them for the same salary that we pay them."},{"startTime":2707.646,"endTime":2710.526,"body":"so what we're gonna do from these"},{"startTime":2707.646,"endTime":2710.526,"body":"podcasts is, we're gonna take the"},{"startTime":2710.536,"endTime":2714.876,"body":"comments from this podcast back, and we're"},{"startTime":2710.536,"endTime":2714.876,"body":"gonna see acceptance criteria I think"},{"startTime":2714.896,"endTime":2716.766,"body":"deserves another podcast all its own."},{"startTime":2716.916,"endTime":2719.216,"body":"And a few of these other ones"},{"startTime":2716.916,"endTime":2719.216,"body":"I don't Budgeting does too."},{"startTime":2719.236,"endTime":2720.456,"body":"Budgeting certainly does."},{"startTime":2720.456,"endTime":2724.186,"body":"I, I think we're gonna take this list"},{"startTime":2720.456,"endTime":2724.186,"body":"that we came up with, and we're going"},{"startTime":2724.206,"endTime":2730.091,"body":"to refine it for what the most valuable"},{"startTime":2724.206,"endTime":2730.091,"body":"topics are and we'll do follow up"},{"startTime":2730.101,"endTime":2732.531,"body":"podcasts or new podcasts on the subjects."},{"startTime":2732.531,"endTime":2733.601,"body":"I think that's the takeaway"},{"startTime":2733.601,"endTime":2733.891,"body":"here."},{"startTime":2733.941,"endTime":2735.691,"body":"And it won't be a"},{"startTime":2733.941,"endTime":2735.691,"body":"repeat, of course, right?"},{"startTime":2735.691,"endTime":2738.091,"body":"This is going to be a different"},{"startTime":2735.691,"endTime":2738.091,"body":"take on the same subject."},{"startTime":2738.121,"endTime":2738.411,"body":"Right."},{"startTime":2738.481,"endTime":2738.811,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":2738.811,"endTime":2740.551,"body":"So for unique takes, you know where to"},{"startTime":2740.551,"endTime":2740.861,"body":"come"},{"startTime":2741.061,"endTime":2745.011,"body":"Some of them need the vitriol taken out of"},{"startTime":2741.061,"endTime":2745.011,"body":"them like the Capital One one it needs a"},{"startTime":2745.011,"endTime":2747.261,"body":"vitriol taken out of it to be beneficial."},{"startTime":2747.291,"endTime":2750.501,"body":"I mean, unless I guess, unless you were"},{"startTime":2747.291,"endTime":2750.501,"body":"involved in the Capital One layoffs, and"},{"startTime":2750.501,"endTime":2752.701,"body":"then, I guess, you're all about vitriol."},{"startTime":2752.901,"endTime":2753.101,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":2753.101,"endTime":2753.311,"body":"Right."},{"startTime":2753.361,"endTime":2757.481,"body":"So we'll think about that and"},{"startTime":2753.361,"endTime":2757.481,"body":"you think about whatever topics."},{"startTime":2757.631,"endTime":2762.861,"body":"You, the listener and or viewer want us"},{"startTime":2757.631,"endTime":2762.861,"body":"to, to cover their on arguing as well."},{"startTime":2762.861,"endTime":2763.411,"body":"Dot com."},{"startTime":2763.601,"endTime":2767.171,"body":"There's a form on the website"},{"startTime":2763.601,"endTime":2767.171,"body":"and also agilepodcastquestions"},{"startTime":2767.191,"endTime":2768.831,"body":"at Gmail that still exists."},{"startTime":2768.911,"endTime":2769.531,"body":"Oh, nice."},{"startTime":2769.571,"endTime":2773.071,"body":"Well don't forget to subscribe"},{"startTime":2769.571,"endTime":2773.071,"body":"and smash that like button."}]}