{"version":"1.0.0","segments":[{"startTime":0.0,"endTime":1.719,"body":", We're talking about new products today."},{"startTime":1.719,"endTime":2.959,"body":"We're talking about creating new products."},{"startTime":2.99,"endTime":8.115,"body":"Or, as some people , Online,"},{"startTime":2.99,"endTime":8.115,"body":"say zero to one, zero to one."},{"startTime":8.115,"endTime":8.639,"body":"Wow."},{"startTime":8.64,"endTime":10.2,"body":"That's an acceleration right there."},{"startTime":10.2,"endTime":11.25,"body":"Zero to one."},{"startTime":11.25,"endTime":11.53,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":11.64,"endTime":13.799,"body":"Well, this is going to be a"},{"startTime":11.64,"endTime":13.799,"body":"good podcast for anybody who's"},{"startTime":13.799,"endTime":16.189,"body":"interested in product or not, right?"},{"startTime":16.189,"endTime":17.429,"body":"Because everyone's interested."},{"startTime":17.43,"endTime":22.399,"body":"I mean, if you're an agile coach coaching"},{"startTime":17.43,"endTime":22.399,"body":"product is part of your job, right?"},{"startTime":22.449,"endTime":26.049,"body":"And, and invariably, you have"},{"startTime":22.449,"endTime":26.049,"body":"to say itself invariably."},{"startTime":26.049,"endTime":28.679,"body":"Invariably, you'll approach a"},{"startTime":26.049,"endTime":28.679,"body":"point in your career where you'll"},{"startTime":28.709,"endTime":30.819,"body":"be developing a new product."},{"startTime":31.039,"endTime":34.069,"body":"Something that didn't exist before,"},{"startTime":31.039,"endTime":34.069,"body":"something that's not just maintaining what"},{"startTime":34.069,"endTime":36.489,"body":"was there, something that is truly new."},{"startTime":36.639,"endTime":41.089,"body":"if you have a executive, you have"},{"startTime":36.639,"endTime":41.089,"body":"a leadership direct your product."},{"startTime":41.089,"endTime":41.879,"body":"Doesn't matter who it is."},{"startTime":41.879,"endTime":44.67,"body":"If somebody comes to you and says,"},{"startTime":41.879,"endTime":44.67,"body":"okay, oh, and we got this great"},{"startTime":44.67,"endTime":46.99,"body":"new idea for a product we want"},{"startTime":44.67,"endTime":46.99,"body":"to launch from the ground up."},{"startTime":46.99,"endTime":49.45,"body":"And now we think you're the guy to do it."},{"startTime":49.57,"endTime":49.909,"body":"All right."},{"startTime":50.1,"endTime":52.06,"body":"Let's start with the gut check."},{"startTime":52.21,"endTime":53.249,"body":"The gut check is run."},{"startTime":53.249,"endTime":53.77,"body":"Don't walk."},{"startTime":53.89,"endTime":56.8,"body":"No, no, seriously, though,"},{"startTime":53.89,"endTime":56.8,"body":"they're telling you that there's"},{"startTime":56.86,"endTime":58.83,"body":"a products that they need."},{"startTime":59.15,"endTime":62.4,"body":"And so immediately I'd be"},{"startTime":59.15,"endTime":62.4,"body":"going, Hey, okay, let's think"},{"startTime":62.41,"endTime":63.48,"body":"about this a little more."},{"startTime":63.61,"endTime":63.92,"body":"Right."},{"startTime":63.95,"endTime":66.259,"body":"I feel that's the way a lot of these"},{"startTime":63.95,"endTime":66.259,"body":"things started is somebody runs"},{"startTime":66.27,"endTime":70.5,"body":"some, somebody with some, either some"},{"startTime":66.27,"endTime":70.5,"body":"money, some budget, or somebody high"},{"startTime":70.5,"endTime":75.15,"body":"up in the organization will run in"},{"startTime":70.5,"endTime":75.15,"body":"and say, I got this great new idea."},{"startTime":75.15,"endTime":75.9,"body":"I was in the shower."},{"startTime":75.9,"endTime":78.63,"body":"I had this great new idea,"},{"startTime":75.9,"endTime":78.63,"body":"or I was at this customer."},{"startTime":78.63,"endTime":81.53,"body":"I had this great new idea, or actually,"},{"startTime":78.63,"endTime":81.53,"body":"you know what, to be fair sales."},{"startTime":81.805,"endTime":82.545,"body":"We'll do this a lot."},{"startTime":82.695,"endTime":86.095,"body":"I was talking to this customer, they"},{"startTime":82.695,"endTime":86.095,"body":"said they got this great they said they"},{"startTime":86.095,"endTime":89.195,"body":"got this big problem and if we can solve"},{"startTime":86.095,"endTime":89.195,"body":"it, they'll give us their business and"},{"startTime":89.195,"endTime":93.155,"body":"they'll run in with this, this, we gotta"},{"startTime":89.195,"endTime":93.155,"body":"develop a new application to fit this."},{"startTime":93.375,"endTime":96.605,"body":"I have a lot more time for that"},{"startTime":93.375,"endTime":96.605,"body":"approach when sales comes in."},{"startTime":96.885,"endTime":100.795,"body":"As opposed to the executive just came back"},{"startTime":96.885,"endTime":100.795,"body":"from a conference and talked to a bunch of"},{"startTime":100.795,"endTime":104.255,"body":"people that are doing stuff and he feels"},{"startTime":100.795,"endTime":104.255,"body":"you know, left out or full or whatever."},{"startTime":104.405,"endTime":104.435,"body":"Right."},{"startTime":104.585,"endTime":108.525,"body":"There's many different ways that"},{"startTime":104.585,"endTime":108.525,"body":"you could be alerted, apprised,"},{"startTime":108.595,"endTime":112.095,"body":"ordered to create a new product,"},{"startTime":108.595,"endTime":112.095,"body":"what should you be looking for?"},{"startTime":112.125,"endTime":113.595,"body":"What should you be watching out for?"},{"startTime":113.935,"endTime":115.665,"body":"And yeah, all of that basically."},{"startTime":115.715,"endTime":118.765,"body":"Let's start with a question that"},{"startTime":115.715,"endTime":118.765,"body":"I will ask in a hundred percent of"},{"startTime":118.785,"endTime":120.385,"body":"those situations every single time."},{"startTime":120.52,"endTime":125.46,"body":"Sometimes, which gets me in trouble,"},{"startTime":120.52,"endTime":125.46,"body":"which is, what is the problem"},{"startTime":125.46,"endTime":126.96,"body":"here that you are trying to solve?"},{"startTime":127.11,"endTime":129.28,"body":"Or, what is the problem here that"},{"startTime":127.11,"endTime":129.28,"body":"the customer is trying to solve,"},{"startTime":129.28,"endTime":131.39,"body":"or that you're trying to solve"},{"startTime":129.28,"endTime":131.39,"body":"on behalf of the customer, etc."},{"startTime":131.49,"endTime":131.89,"body":"etc."},{"startTime":132.16,"endTime":136.05,"body":"Regardless, I will ask, what is,"},{"startTime":132.16,"endTime":136.05,"body":"what problem are we trying to solve?"},{"startTime":136.2,"endTime":140.0,"body":"I will ask for it to be"},{"startTime":136.2,"endTime":140.0,"body":"an individual problem."},{"startTime":140.0,"endTime":142.44,"body":"What singular problem"},{"startTime":140.0,"endTime":142.44,"body":"are we trying to solve?"},{"startTime":142.61,"endTime":142.96,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":142.96,"endTime":145.45,"body":"So there's a couple of things you"},{"startTime":142.96,"endTime":145.45,"body":"kind of mixed in there, right?"},{"startTime":145.48,"endTime":148.3,"body":"One is absolutely, what"},{"startTime":145.48,"endTime":148.3,"body":"problem are we trying to solve?"},{"startTime":148.45,"endTime":152.93,"body":"And it isn't just a smorgasbord or"},{"startTime":148.45,"endTime":152.93,"body":"a bullet list of here are all things"},{"startTime":152.93,"endTime":154.58,"body":"all and sundry for everybody, right?"},{"startTime":154.85,"endTime":155.26,"body":"No."},{"startTime":155.54,"endTime":157.53,"body":"So I think it's critical"},{"startTime":155.54,"endTime":157.53,"body":"we separate those out."},{"startTime":157.54,"endTime":158.35,"body":"What problem?"},{"startTime":158.55,"endTime":160.07,"body":"And it is a singular."},{"startTime":160.22,"endTime":161.15,"body":"What problem?"},{"startTime":161.15,"endTime":162.97,"body":"Not what problems?"},{"startTime":163.01,"endTime":166.63,"body":"Because now you're assuming that"},{"startTime":163.01,"endTime":166.63,"body":"a solution fits multiple problems."},{"startTime":166.87,"endTime":168.75,"body":"Big, big red flag right there."},{"startTime":169.07,"endTime":170.22,"body":"So yes, what problem?"},{"startTime":170.26,"endTime":174.33,"body":"And I would say at that point,"},{"startTime":170.26,"endTime":174.33,"body":"you've got to validate the why."},{"startTime":174.42,"endTime":176.09,"body":"Why are you trying to solve the problem?"},{"startTime":176.24,"endTime":177.32,"body":"Is it a real problem?"},{"startTime":177.47,"endTime":178.6,"body":"How big is the problem?"},{"startTime":178.81,"endTime":179.96,"body":"Is it worth chasing?"},{"startTime":180.22,"endTime":180.57,"body":"Right."},{"startTime":180.87,"endTime":183.4,"body":"So there's so many other"},{"startTime":180.87,"endTime":183.4,"body":"questions that fall out of that."},{"startTime":183.64,"endTime":184.92,"body":"You know, how big is the market?"},{"startTime":185.14,"endTime":188.24,"body":"Are we the right people to come"},{"startTime":185.14,"endTime":188.24,"body":"up with a solution for this?"},{"startTime":188.28,"endTime":188.47,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":188.49,"endTime":190.24,"body":"What's our competition, right?"},{"startTime":190.28,"endTime":191.48,"body":"What will the customer pay?"},{"startTime":191.8,"endTime":192.93,"body":"What's the appetite for this?"},{"startTime":193.08,"endTime":194.49,"body":"How will we know we've succeeded?"},{"startTime":194.54,"endTime":197.02,"body":"I mean, there's this a"},{"startTime":194.54,"endTime":197.02,"body":"thousand questions that."},{"startTime":197.17,"endTime":198.84,"body":"Come to mind at that point."},{"startTime":198.84,"endTime":203.179,"body":"Unfortunately, 999 of those"},{"startTime":198.84,"endTime":203.179,"body":"are ignored most of the time."},{"startTime":203.179,"endTime":205.079,"body":"It's like, yes sir, that's the answer."},{"startTime":205.169,"endTime":207.599,"body":"Right, and that is not how to go ahead."},{"startTime":207.879,"endTime":211.369,"body":"the larger the company, the less"},{"startTime":207.879,"endTime":211.369,"body":"leverage you have to ask those"},{"startTime":211.369,"endTime":215.199,"body":"questions and, and basically delay"},{"startTime":211.369,"endTime":215.199,"body":"the beginning of development until"},{"startTime":215.199,"endTime":216.179,"body":"you've started with those questions."},{"startTime":216.189,"endTime":220.219,"body":"Like I guess the, the first thing for"},{"startTime":216.189,"endTime":220.219,"body":"me when someone brings me an idea or"},{"startTime":220.219,"endTime":221.989,"body":", it could even be me seeing the idea."},{"startTime":222.229,"endTime":229.269,"body":"The first thing that I want to"},{"startTime":222.229,"endTime":229.269,"body":"do is go out and run that MVP."},{"startTime":229.419,"endTime":231.649,"body":"There's some things that need to"},{"startTime":229.419,"endTime":231.649,"body":"be done before the MVP is run."},{"startTime":231.799,"endTime":235.669,"body":"the concept of product market"},{"startTime":231.799,"endTime":235.669,"body":"fit exists for a reason."},{"startTime":235.819,"endTime":237.199,"body":"Like I don't even know what, what, what."},{"startTime":237.349,"endTime":239.479,"body":"Market we're trying to target with this."},{"startTime":239.479,"endTime":241.859,"body":"What, what, what audience like if"},{"startTime":239.479,"endTime":241.859,"body":"we say, well, what is a market?"},{"startTime":241.879,"endTime":243.459,"body":"These are meaningless terms, Brian."},{"startTime":243.489,"endTime":245.199,"body":"Oh stop with your word salad."},{"startTime":245.349,"endTime":249.629,"body":"Okay, valid critique, but Let's"},{"startTime":245.349,"endTime":249.629,"body":"just let's define a market."},{"startTime":249.899,"endTime":251.519,"body":"It's just a group of people."},{"startTime":251.639,"endTime":254.89,"body":"So can we list those people by name"},{"startTime":251.639,"endTime":254.89,"body":"can we put their names on a wall"},{"startTime":254.89,"endTime":257.035,"body":"and be like these are the people"},{"startTime":254.89,"endTime":257.035,"body":"we're trying to sell to Yeah."},{"startTime":257.035,"endTime":260.475,"body":"And do they share the same pain"},{"startTime":257.035,"endTime":260.475,"body":"point or pain points, right?"},{"startTime":260.565,"endTime":260.785,"body":"Right."},{"startTime":260.785,"endTime":264.945,"body":"Because maybe you have, maybe there's"},{"startTime":260.785,"endTime":264.945,"body":"an opportunity here to say, let's funnel"},{"startTime":264.945,"endTime":270.485,"body":"in on a singular pain point and deliver"},{"startTime":264.945,"endTime":270.485,"body":"an MVP that fits that as opposed to You"},{"startTime":270.485,"endTime":273.615,"body":"know, more of a generalized solution"},{"startTime":270.485,"endTime":273.615,"body":"in the hope that it sticks, right?"},{"startTime":273.945,"endTime":275.525,"body":"That, that's not a strategy."},{"startTime":275.825,"endTime":277.035,"body":"No, I don't think so either."},{"startTime":277.195,"endTime":281.345,"body":"And that this, this is, this is wrapped"},{"startTime":277.195,"endTime":281.345,"body":"up with your, your go to market as well."},{"startTime":281.365,"endTime":285.175,"body":"Like your traditional marketing,"},{"startTime":281.365,"endTime":285.175,"body":"go to market type of activities."},{"startTime":285.525,"endTime":287.405,"body":"But to, to stick on value."},{"startTime":287.415,"endTime":290.874,"body":"How do we know the customers are"},{"startTime":287.415,"endTime":290.874,"body":"going to get value out of it?"},{"startTime":290.875,"endTime":293.245,"body":"We're going to stay on this phrase"},{"startTime":290.875,"endTime":293.245,"body":"for a second because if there's"},{"startTime":293.245,"endTime":296.945,"body":"no business viability in the"},{"startTime":293.245,"endTime":296.945,"body":"idea, then we're already done."},{"startTime":297.095,"endTime":300.735,"body":"I mean, if you're going to go back to"},{"startTime":297.095,"endTime":300.735,"body":"Eric Ries's Lean Startup or if you're"},{"startTime":300.735,"endTime":303.865,"body":"going to jump to Marty Kagan's four, four"},{"startTime":300.735,"endTime":303.865,"body":"categories, it doesn't really matter."},{"startTime":304.015,"endTime":307.875,"body":"Business viability is handled"},{"startTime":304.015,"endTime":307.875,"body":"in either of those models."},{"startTime":307.975,"endTime":309.105,"body":"Marty Kagan didn't really have a model."},{"startTime":309.105,"endTime":309.975,"body":"He just had four things."},{"startTime":310.135,"endTime":313.195,"body":"Anyway, the, the point is what have"},{"startTime":310.135,"endTime":313.195,"body":"you done to confirm the business"},{"startTime":313.195,"endTime":316.525,"body":"viability of this idea that, that"},{"startTime":313.195,"endTime":316.525,"body":"this is the problem we need to solve?"},{"startTime":316.525,"endTime":317.455,"body":"And that generally."},{"startTime":317.785,"endTime":319.885,"body":"This, this guiding policy will solve it."},{"startTime":320.035,"endTime":321.925,"body":"Yeah, I think yeah, absolutely spot on."},{"startTime":321.925,"endTime":324.915,"body":"I think there's other things"},{"startTime":321.925,"endTime":324.915,"body":"that fall under the same umbrella"},{"startTime":325.065,"endTime":326.745,"body":"of business viability, right?"},{"startTime":327.025,"endTime":328.695,"body":"Which is what is the problem?"},{"startTime":328.845,"endTime":329.795,"body":"Can we solve it?"},{"startTime":329.945,"endTime":330.215,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":330.305,"endTime":331.805,"body":"Do we have the skills to solve it?"},{"startTime":331.825,"endTime":333.625,"body":"Do we have the technical know how?"},{"startTime":333.775,"endTime":336.585,"body":"Do we have a potential market for it?"},{"startTime":336.805,"endTime":338.375,"body":"If so, how big is the market?"},{"startTime":338.705,"endTime":343.115,"body":"Is it a market that's hardly going to pay"},{"startTime":338.705,"endTime":343.115,"body":"back the investment that we make in it?"},{"startTime":343.265,"endTime":348.265,"body":"In the hope of a future payoff, or is it"},{"startTime":343.265,"endTime":348.265,"body":"a market that we can expand out to others?"},{"startTime":348.285,"endTime":351.155,"body":"Once we've proven it in this little"},{"startTime":348.285,"endTime":351.155,"body":"niche area, I mean, there's just"},{"startTime":351.245,"endTime":352.835,"body":"so many different ways you can go."},{"startTime":352.875,"endTime":355.435,"body":"Do we have the right talent"},{"startTime":352.875,"endTime":355.435,"body":"in house to, to do this?"},{"startTime":355.675,"endTime":361.225,"body":"I would crowbar that apart from business"},{"startTime":355.675,"endTime":361.225,"body":"viability, because I've seen companies."},{"startTime":361.565,"endTime":364.725,"body":"That will pick their problem"},{"startTime":361.565,"endTime":364.725,"body":"they want to go after and then"},{"startTime":364.725,"endTime":366.015,"body":"they'll hire offshore teams or"},{"startTime":366.065,"endTime":367.695,"body":"I think there has to be a strategy, right?"},{"startTime":367.715,"endTime":370.325,"body":"That's all I'm saying is if you"},{"startTime":367.715,"endTime":370.325,"body":"don't have the skills in house,"},{"startTime":370.325,"endTime":371.565,"body":"that's okay, you can borrow them."},{"startTime":371.715,"endTime":372.755,"body":"You can rent them or whatever."},{"startTime":373.005,"endTime":373.595,"body":"That's fine."},{"startTime":373.605,"endTime":375.095,"body":"But that is a strategy."},{"startTime":375.245,"endTime":378.745,"body":"If you've decided that this is so cutting"},{"startTime":375.245,"endTime":378.745,"body":"edge that the skill sets are just not"},{"startTime":378.745,"endTime":383.345,"body":"available or not available now, that"},{"startTime":378.745,"endTime":383.345,"body":"influences your, your overall strategy"},{"startTime":383.495,"endTime":385.915,"body":"for pursuing this solution or product."},{"startTime":385.955,"endTime":389.595,"body":"In the technical feasibility"},{"startTime":385.955,"endTime":389.595,"body":"consideration of can we build this"},{"startTime":389.595,"endTime":392.685,"body":"solution we're going to talk about"},{"startTime":389.595,"endTime":392.685,"body":"do we have the skills to do this?"},{"startTime":392.835,"endTime":396.53,"body":"For example, I read a couple articles"},{"startTime":392.835,"endTime":396.53,"body":"that they were sharing how much"},{"startTime":396.53,"endTime":398.69,"body":"money the company saved from not."},{"startTime":398.84,"endTime":401.36,"body":"Going with the cloud solution"},{"startTime":398.84,"endTime":401.36,"body":"and hosting everything in house."},{"startTime":401.62,"endTime":406.05,"body":"And, and they were kind of throwing in"},{"startTime":401.62,"endTime":406.05,"body":"everyone's face about like, Oh, I wanted"},{"startTime":406.05,"endTime":408.29,"body":"to go in house with this hosted solution."},{"startTime":408.47,"endTime":411.7,"body":"And everyone kind of laughed at me and"},{"startTime":408.47,"endTime":411.7,"body":"said, Oh, everyone's in the cloud now."},{"startTime":411.7,"endTime":415.27,"body":"And this seems like this seems like"},{"startTime":411.7,"endTime":415.27,"body":"a stone age kind of a strategy."},{"startTime":415.42,"endTime":420.35,"body":"But the person on LinkedIn was"},{"startTime":415.42,"endTime":420.35,"body":"like, yeah, but I pay like a 10th"},{"startTime":420.41,"endTime":424.16,"body":"if that of what y'all pay in the"},{"startTime":420.41,"endTime":424.16,"body":"cloud by just hosting in the house."},{"startTime":424.24,"endTime":426.36,"body":"And that's just the"},{"startTime":424.24,"endTime":426.36,"body":"monetary aspect, right?"},{"startTime":426.36,"endTime":427.98,"body":"What about the risk, right?"},{"startTime":428.27,"endTime":429.42,"body":"You know, the cloud provider."},{"startTime":429.465,"endTime":430.755,"body":"poses a risk basically."},{"startTime":430.775,"endTime":434.035,"body":"And if you have things in house,"},{"startTime":430.775,"endTime":434.035,"body":"well, those stones are real, right?"},{"startTime":434.035,"endTime":438.285,"body":"So yeah, it may seem like stone age, but"},{"startTime":434.035,"endTime":438.285,"body":"you have a lot more control over that."},{"startTime":438.285,"endTime":438.475,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":438.625,"endTime":441.595,"body":"In the value category,"},{"startTime":438.625,"endTime":441.595,"body":"we sort of talked about."},{"startTime":441.65,"endTime":444.41,"body":"Product market fit, but we didn't,"},{"startTime":441.65,"endTime":444.41,"body":"we didn't stop on it for a second."},{"startTime":444.415,"endTime":444.71,"body":"Right."},{"startTime":445.01,"endTime":448.875,"body":"Product market fit, crossing the chasm we"},{"startTime":445.01,"endTime":448.875,"body":"have previous podcasts on this topic, so"},{"startTime":448.875,"endTime":450.225,"body":"we're not gonna spend too much time here."},{"startTime":450.225,"endTime":453.76,"body":"But the product market fit, the"},{"startTime":450.225,"endTime":453.76,"body":"majority of this topic is about."},{"startTime":453.91,"endTime":454.75,"body":"research."},{"startTime":454.9,"endTime":456.55,"body":"Like you have done your homework."},{"startTime":456.7,"endTime":460.11,"body":"You know, you talked about addressable"},{"startTime":456.7,"endTime":460.11,"body":"market the size of the addressable, the"},{"startTime":460.11,"endTime":461.67,"body":"potential market or whatever, right?"},{"startTime":461.71,"endTime":466.85,"body":"Like you don't get that without research,"},{"startTime":461.71,"endTime":466.85,"body":"or already starting your company, your"},{"startTime":466.85,"endTime":471.46,"body":"team or whatever, with industry experts"},{"startTime":466.85,"endTime":471.46,"body":"starting, or, or maybe you pay industry"},{"startTime":471.46,"endTime":474.8,"body":"experts for a percentage of their"},{"startTime":471.46,"endTime":474.8,"body":"time or pay them hourly or whatever."},{"startTime":474.8,"endTime":476.56,"body":"If you're small, you can't afford them."},{"startTime":476.71,"endTime":478.92,"body":"You can buy some of this"},{"startTime":476.71,"endTime":478.92,"body":"stuff as well, right?"},{"startTime":478.95,"endTime":480.95,"body":"I mean, that's fine,"},{"startTime":478.95,"endTime":480.95,"body":"but Your point is valid."},{"startTime":480.98,"endTime":483.74,"body":"You have to do your research, no"},{"startTime":480.98,"endTime":483.74,"body":"matter how, whether you do it from"},{"startTime":483.74,"endTime":488.02,"body":"the ground up, from within, or you buy"},{"startTime":483.74,"endTime":488.02,"body":"some of it, that's fine, but do your"},{"startTime":488.02,"endTime":492.35,"body":"research, because you, without that,"},{"startTime":488.02,"endTime":492.35,"body":"the alternative is, is conjecture."},{"startTime":492.45,"endTime":495.56,"body":"You're listening to somebody and"},{"startTime":492.45,"endTime":495.56,"body":"believing what they say right or"},{"startTime":495.56,"endTime":497.48,"body":"wrong, and that's just opinion."},{"startTime":497.63,"endTime":503.21,"body":"And when you start off creating a new"},{"startTime":497.63,"endTime":503.21,"body":"product with opinion based, Approaches?"},{"startTime":503.44,"endTime":505.0,"body":"Yeah, I'm not investing in that."},{"startTime":505.15,"endTime":510.78,"body":"Well, let's pivot to the backbone of your"},{"startTime":505.15,"endTime":510.78,"body":"organization being a data driven culture."},{"startTime":510.93,"endTime":513.27,"body":"I mean, if you're going to pick an idea"},{"startTime":510.93,"endTime":513.27,"body":"out of the air, if you're going to pick"},{"startTime":513.27,"endTime":516.61,"body":"a problem, basically, what you're doing"},{"startTime":513.27,"endTime":516.61,"body":"here is you're picking a problem out"},{"startTime":516.61,"endTime":519.28,"body":"of the air, and you're saying, you know"},{"startTime":516.61,"endTime":519.28,"body":"what, we're going to derive a solution"},{"startTime":519.43,"endTime":522.0,"body":"That nobody else has for this problem."},{"startTime":522.15,"endTime":523.34,"body":"That's just one strategy, right?"},{"startTime":523.49,"endTime":526.87,"body":"oH another way would  say, okay, we're"},{"startTime":523.49,"endTime":526.87,"body":"gonna take this crowded market, and we're"},{"startTime":526.87,"endTime":530.81,"body":"gonna do the same thing everyone else"},{"startTime":526.87,"endTime":530.81,"body":"does, because it's super easy to just"},{"startTime":530.81,"endTime":533.6,"body":"copy everyone else, but have a better UX."},{"startTime":533.82,"endTime":536.28,"body":"Because we're we don't have to rethink"},{"startTime":533.82,"endTime":536.28,"body":"any of the deep features or anything."},{"startTime":536.51,"endTime":541.39,"body":"But we'll have a couple of niche, real,"},{"startTime":536.51,"endTime":541.39,"body":"yeah, real differentiating features."},{"startTime":541.54,"endTime":544.79,"body":"But also we'll copy what everyone"},{"startTime":541.54,"endTime":544.79,"body":"else did and then we'll make it a"},{"startTime":544.79,"endTime":546.74,"body":"lot sexier than everyone else does."},{"startTime":546.79,"endTime":547.91,"body":"Well, we'll market it better."},{"startTime":547.93,"endTime":548.68,"body":"Whatever, price it better."},{"startTime":548.83,"endTime":551.08,"body":"Yeah, there's a lot of strategies"},{"startTime":548.83,"endTime":551.08,"body":"there, but I want to go back"},{"startTime":551.08,"endTime":551.93,"body":"to the first one, right?"},{"startTime":551.93,"endTime":556.26,"body":"So if you say we're going to come"},{"startTime":551.93,"endTime":556.26,"body":"up with a solution to a problem, how"},{"startTime":556.26,"endTime":558.63,"body":"do you know that problem is real?"},{"startTime":558.82,"endTime":562.77,"body":"How do you know that problem"},{"startTime":558.82,"endTime":562.77,"body":"exists and it's worth tackling now?"},{"startTime":562.92,"endTime":565.28,"body":"Have you done the analysis to say?"},{"startTime":565.43,"endTime":569.04,"body":"What are the problems that your"},{"startTime":565.43,"endTime":569.04,"body":"customer, customers are facing?"},{"startTime":569.36,"endTime":574.55,"body":"And then which one, which ones are"},{"startTime":569.36,"endTime":574.55,"body":"you going to tackle now versus later?"},{"startTime":574.7,"endTime":577.87,"body":"That is not so much a science."},{"startTime":577.97,"endTime":579.27,"body":"I think some of that is art."},{"startTime":579.51,"endTime":581.54,"body":"I think some of that is, is intuition."},{"startTime":581.55,"endTime":583.03,"body":"People knowing the customers."},{"startTime":583.18,"endTime":586.28,"body":"Even customers you don't have now,"},{"startTime":583.18,"endTime":586.28,"body":"you're, you're guessing what they're"},{"startTime":586.28,"endTime":589.92,"body":"going to do because they're going to"},{"startTime":586.28,"endTime":589.92,"body":"emulate the customers you do have now."},{"startTime":589.93,"endTime":593.32,"body":"Some will, some will come out with"},{"startTime":589.93,"endTime":593.32,"body":"things completely out of the blue, but"},{"startTime":593.51,"endTime":598.1,"body":"there has to be some sense in trying"},{"startTime":593.51,"endTime":598.1,"body":"to define if the problem is there."},{"startTime":598.43,"endTime":599.03,"body":"for sure."},{"startTime":599.18,"endTime":600.92,"body":"Is it the right problem to tackle?"},{"startTime":601.18,"endTime":603.12,"body":"Is it the right time"},{"startTime":601.18,"endTime":603.12,"body":"to tackle the problem?"},{"startTime":603.19,"endTime":605.91,"body":"And are you the right company"},{"startTime":603.19,"endTime":605.91,"body":"to tackle the problem?"},{"startTime":606.06,"endTime":606.57,"body":"Yeah, right."},{"startTime":606.62,"endTime":608.7,"body":"I think there's a lot there, honestly."},{"startTime":608.7,"endTime":611.1,"body":"You know, the last one"},{"startTime":608.7,"endTime":611.1,"body":"is the simplest one."},{"startTime":611.1,"endTime":614.14,"body":"We can peel that off of here, which"},{"startTime":611.1,"endTime":614.14,"body":"is the capability issue, right?"},{"startTime":614.33,"endTime":616.78,"body":"Do you have the skills or"},{"startTime":614.33,"endTime":616.78,"body":"can you get the skills?"},{"startTime":616.93,"endTime":620.13,"body":"I'm so lucky that real early in my"},{"startTime":616.93,"endTime":620.13,"body":"career I had an opportunity to, to"},{"startTime":620.13,"endTime":621.88,"body":"really practice the BA skill set."},{"startTime":621.88,"endTime":625.26,"body":"And really like be free with"},{"startTime":621.88,"endTime":625.26,"body":"exp expanding the BA skill set."},{"startTime":625.44,"endTime":628.82,"body":"And because everything you just described"},{"startTime":625.44,"endTime":628.82,"body":"of like interviewing users and knowing the"},{"startTime":628.82,"endTime":632.88,"body":"questions to ask and knowing how to kind"},{"startTime":628.82,"endTime":632.88,"body":"of go from A to B to C to walk through and"},{"startTime":632.93,"endTime":637.12,"body":"knowing how to, how to dig  through the"},{"startTime":632.93,"endTime":637.12,"body":"solution being asked down to the problems"},{"startTime":637.27,"endTime":638.84,"body":"that, that are underlying each one."},{"startTime":639.15,"endTime":642.13,"body":"All that kind of stuff came from"},{"startTime":639.15,"endTime":642.13,"body":"talking directly to customers"},{"startTime":642.28,"endTime":643.78,"body":"and exercising that BA skill set."},{"startTime":643.78,"endTime":645.11,"body":"How did I not have that?"},{"startTime":645.26,"endTime":647.58,"body":"You know, maybe I would be"},{"startTime":645.26,"endTime":647.58,"body":"one of these people that just"},{"startTime":647.89,"endTime":649.54,"body":"jumps from solution to solution"},{"startTime":649.54,"endTime":653.66,"body":"The wrapper around all of this"},{"startTime":649.54,"endTime":653.66,"body":"was about being data driven."},{"startTime":653.83,"endTime":657.54,"body":"Like you're, you're never, you're never"},{"startTime":653.83,"endTime":657.54,"body":"going to value having a staff of people"},{"startTime":657.58,"endTime":659.31,"body":"doing that, or even, even having that."},{"startTime":660.925,"endTime":663.885,"body":"If you go to your teams and you say,"},{"startTime":660.925,"endTime":663.885,"body":"Oh, I talk to the customer, I know"},{"startTime":663.885,"endTime":665.205,"body":"what to build, just build what I say."},{"startTime":665.205,"endTime":668.945,"body":"And then you don't need to do follow"},{"startTime":665.205,"endTime":668.945,"body":"up after the features in production."},{"startTime":668.985,"endTime":670.145,"body":"You don't need to watch metrics."},{"startTime":670.145,"endTime":671.795,"body":"And you don't mean that,"},{"startTime":670.145,"endTime":671.795,"body":"that kind of stuff like that."},{"startTime":671.805,"endTime":674.955,"body":"The data driven is like part"},{"startTime":671.805,"endTime":674.955,"body":"of the culture or it's not."},{"startTime":675.105,"endTime":675.805,"body":"I agree with that."},{"startTime":675.805,"endTime":680.945,"body":"I think there's so many Companies that"},{"startTime":675.805,"endTime":680.945,"body":"are basically working, existing in the"},{"startTime":680.945,"endTime":684.745,"body":"way you just described, which is somebody"},{"startTime":680.945,"endTime":684.745,"body":"talks to the customer, then they come"},{"startTime":684.745,"endTime":688.075,"body":"out and translate what they heard, what"},{"startTime":684.745,"endTime":688.075,"body":"they think they heard to the teams."},{"startTime":688.095,"endTime":689.805,"body":"The teams never talk to"},{"startTime":688.095,"endTime":689.805,"body":"the customers, right?"},{"startTime":689.955,"endTime":691.965,"body":"Yeah, unfortunately, that's a reality."},{"startTime":692.005,"endTime":696.675,"body":"And it's really sad to see that"},{"startTime":692.005,"endTime":696.675,"body":"because you're, you're missing"},{"startTime":696.695,"endTime":698.895,"body":"out on something that is so basic."},{"startTime":699.185,"endTime":701.395,"body":"What does it take to have your"},{"startTime":699.185,"endTime":701.395,"body":"team talk to the customer?"},{"startTime":701.575,"endTime":702.855,"body":"Honestly, why not?"},{"startTime":703.205,"endTime":707.755,"body":"And, and I'll tell like for me in a couple"},{"startTime":703.205,"endTime":707.755,"body":"shops like this where you were discouraged"},{"startTime":708.085,"endTime":712.945,"body":"from talking to the customer, usually"},{"startTime":708.085,"endTime":712.945,"body":"there's some gatekeepers, or there's some"},{"startTime":712.945,"endTime":715.475,"body":"territorialism happening or whatever but."},{"startTime":715.53,"endTime":718.86,"body":"The higher you escalate in the"},{"startTime":715.53,"endTime":718.86,"body":"organization and talk about"},{"startTime":718.86,"endTime":722.13,"body":"these things, I would say that"},{"startTime":718.86,"endTime":722.13,"body":"the less important it becomes."},{"startTime":722.13,"endTime":725.31,"body":"I usually, what the strategy, I"},{"startTime":722.13,"endTime":725.31,"body":"don't know if it's a great strategy."},{"startTime":725.36,"endTime":728.45,"body":"We'll see if you agree or disagree with"},{"startTime":725.36,"endTime":728.45,"body":"this, but the strategy that I usually"},{"startTime":728.45,"endTime":733.01,"body":"find is I just climb higher and higher"},{"startTime":728.45,"endTime":733.01,"body":"until I get someone that Will tell me"},{"startTime":733.25,"endTime":736.32,"body":"like there's no reason why everyone"},{"startTime":733.25,"endTime":736.32,"body":"shouldn't be talking to customers."},{"startTime":736.47,"endTime":740.96,"body":"That's ludicrous that anybody's blocking"},{"startTime":736.47,"endTime":740.96,"body":"you You know Let me at him and then"},{"startTime":740.97,"endTime":744.38,"body":"usually that the star power of somebody"},{"startTime":740.97,"endTime":744.38,"body":"higher up in the organization is enough"},{"startTime":744.38,"endTime":749.5,"body":"to at least initially Breakthrough"},{"startTime":744.38,"endTime":749.5,"body":"that first Stone wall, and then once"},{"startTime":749.5,"endTime":752.4,"body":"you break through that first stone"},{"startTime":749.5,"endTime":752.4,"body":"wall every other wall to break through"},{"startTime":752.4,"endTime":755.81,"body":"becomes a little easier after that And"},{"startTime":752.4,"endTime":755.81,"body":"you know what else you know also help"},{"startTime":755.81,"endTime":759.86,"body":"so Getting the initial like going from"},{"startTime":755.81,"endTime":759.86,"body":"a culture of not doing it to doing at"},{"startTime":759.86,"endTime":764.92,"body":"least one once one once is one thing"},{"startTime":759.86,"endTime":764.92,"body":"but  actually, actually incorporating"},{"startTime":764.92,"endTime":767.9,"body":"that user feedback and then changing"},{"startTime":764.92,"endTime":767.9,"body":"the product based on the user feedback."},{"startTime":768.05,"endTime":770.44,"body":"That will also make it a lot easier."},{"startTime":770.72,"endTime":773.75,"body":"It makes no difference to talk to"},{"startTime":770.72,"endTime":773.75,"body":"customers and then you don't do anything."},{"startTime":773.99,"endTime":774.57,"body":"Exactly."},{"startTime":774.57,"endTime":776.08,"body":"That's a waste of their"},{"startTime":774.57,"endTime":776.08,"body":"time and your time."},{"startTime":776.38,"endTime":779.0,"body":"My approach has been a"},{"startTime":776.38,"endTime":779.0,"body":"little bit different."},{"startTime":779.34,"endTime":782.21,"body":"I take more of a guerrilla"},{"startTime":779.34,"endTime":782.21,"body":"tactic to that, which is I just"},{"startTime":782.36,"endTime":785.9,"body":"basically have my developer,"},{"startTime":782.36,"endTime":785.9,"body":"development team talk to customers."},{"startTime":786.05,"endTime":790.02,"body":"Now the contrarian argument to that"},{"startTime":786.05,"endTime":790.02,"body":"is, hey, these are technical people."},{"startTime":790.03,"endTime":791.36,"body":"They don't know how to talk to customers."},{"startTime":791.36,"endTime":792.66,"body":"They might say yes to everything."},{"startTime":792.98,"endTime":795.6,"body":"And what I've found is If you"},{"startTime":792.98,"endTime":795.6,"body":"spend a little bit of time with"},{"startTime":795.6,"endTime":798.67,"body":"your team ahead of that and say,"},{"startTime":795.6,"endTime":798.67,"body":"look, the purpose is to listen."},{"startTime":798.82,"endTime":801.03,"body":"The purpose is not to just"},{"startTime":798.82,"endTime":801.03,"body":"say, yes ma'am, no ma'am."},{"startTime":801.18,"endTime":803.37,"body":"The purpose is to listen"},{"startTime":801.18,"endTime":803.37,"body":"and ask questions."},{"startTime":803.52,"endTime":806.7,"body":"But when they ask you questions"},{"startTime":803.52,"endTime":806.7,"body":"in return and say that some"},{"startTime":806.7,"endTime":808.53,"body":"customers are really savvy, right?"},{"startTime":808.63,"endTime":811.07,"body":"And they will do what I"},{"startTime":808.63,"endTime":811.07,"body":"call ego stroking, right?"},{"startTime":811.09,"endTime":813.62,"body":"They'll say, you're a"},{"startTime":811.09,"endTime":813.62,"body":"smart guy, Fred or Mary."},{"startTime":813.845,"endTime":816.575,"body":"Surely you can have this knocked"},{"startTime":813.845,"endTime":816.575,"body":"out in a couple of sprints and"},{"startTime":816.575,"endTime":818.225,"body":"Alfredo Mary feels really good."},{"startTime":818.245,"endTime":820.365,"body":"And they're more inclined to say yes."},{"startTime":820.515,"endTime":823.335,"body":"So I, I basically work with"},{"startTime":820.515,"endTime":823.335,"body":"the team ahead of times."},{"startTime":823.385,"endTime":827.005,"body":"If that question is asked of"},{"startTime":823.385,"endTime":827.005,"body":"you, your response would be, let"},{"startTime":827.005,"endTime":828.755,"body":"me go back, talk to the team."},{"startTime":828.775,"endTime":830.795,"body":"We'll discuss this further"},{"startTime":828.775,"endTime":830.795,"body":"and we'll get back to you."},{"startTime":830.855,"endTime":831.245,"body":"That's it."},{"startTime":831.395,"endTime":831.555,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":831.555,"endTime":834.305,"body":"The team's not going to learn those"},{"startTime":831.555,"endTime":834.305,"body":"skills unless you actually put"},{"startTime":834.305,"endTime":835.365,"body":"them in front of real customers."},{"startTime":835.385,"endTime":836.125,"body":"Exactly."},{"startTime":836.285,"endTime":837.065,"body":"Death by fire."},{"startTime":837.065,"endTime":838.195,"body":"I look, it's, it's."},{"startTime":838.325,"endTime":841.015,"body":"It's like the teams want to"},{"startTime":838.325,"endTime":841.015,"body":"talk to customers, right, to"},{"startTime":841.015,"endTime":842.205,"body":"the point about gatekeepers."},{"startTime":842.235,"endTime":844.945,"body":"It's the gatekeepers that are"},{"startTime":842.235,"endTime":844.945,"body":"preventing this from happening"},{"startTime":845.095,"endTime":847.195,"body":"for some fear of some kind."},{"startTime":847.205,"endTime":851.545,"body":"So if you tackle the fear and get rid of"},{"startTime":847.205,"endTime":851.545,"body":"that eventuality from happening, the team"},{"startTime":851.545,"endTime":855.395,"body":"over committing not understanding and"},{"startTime":851.545,"endTime":855.395,"body":"still saying yes, all of those kinds of"},{"startTime":855.395,"endTime":859.475,"body":"things that people are worried about, then"},{"startTime":855.395,"endTime":859.475,"body":"I think the gatekeepers will fall in line."},{"startTime":859.525,"endTime":859.795,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":859.855,"endTime":861.694,"body":"But I take a little different"},{"startTime":859.855,"endTime":861.694,"body":"approach and I just."},{"startTime":861.835,"endTime":862.225,"body":"Do it."},{"startTime":862.305,"endTime":862.525,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":862.535,"endTime":862.935,"body":"Basically."},{"startTime":862.965,"endTime":863.355,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":863.505,"endTime":866.665,"body":"And then, you're in a weird spot when"},{"startTime":863.505,"endTime":866.665,"body":"like some of your organization or"},{"startTime":866.665,"endTime":870.01,"body":"some of your teams are data driven and"},{"startTime":866.665,"endTime":870.01,"body":"the other if you have, Some of your"},{"startTime":870.01,"endTime":873.88,"body":"teams are feature factory teams and"},{"startTime":870.01,"endTime":873.88,"body":"some of your teams are not like that."},{"startTime":873.92,"endTime":876.03,"body":"That is a i've been in an"},{"startTime":873.92,"endTime":876.03,"body":"organization like that."},{"startTime":876.07,"endTime":877.79,"body":"It's very strange."},{"startTime":877.8,"endTime":880.65,"body":"It is very strange But"},{"startTime":877.8,"endTime":880.65,"body":"it's very pervasive too."},{"startTime":880.68,"endTime":882.46,"body":"I mean that's very"},{"startTime":880.68,"endTime":882.46,"body":"common out there, right?"},{"startTime":882.52,"endTime":883.51,"body":"Unfortunately."},{"startTime":883.65,"endTime":887.72,"body":"Yeah, it's it's very odd because"},{"startTime":883.65,"endTime":887.72,"body":"whoever holds an opinion gosh"},{"startTime":887.72,"endTime":888.64,"body":"there's a there's a great"},{"startTime":888.79,"endTime":892.09,"body":"strong opinions loosely held"},{"startTime":888.79,"endTime":892.09,"body":"is that the is that the phrase?"},{"startTime":892.24,"endTime":893.72,"body":"Loose opinions are strongly held?"},{"startTime":893.75,"endTime":895.1,"body":"I don't know."},{"startTime":895.44,"endTime":896.05,"body":"I don't know."},{"startTime":896.3,"endTime":902.5,"body":"Yeah I mean the basic meaning of that"},{"startTime":896.3,"endTime":902.5,"body":"is if if you're if you're given new"},{"startTime":902.51,"endTime":906.36,"body":"evidence or evidence that shows You"},{"startTime":902.51,"endTime":906.36,"body":"know, the contrary to what you believe"},{"startTime":906.44,"endTime":912.66,"body":"you should just adjust and then move"},{"startTime":906.44,"endTime":912.66,"body":"on unless, unless you're, you're ego"},{"startTime":912.66,"endTime":914.85,"body":"driven in that case, all bets are off."},{"startTime":914.85,"endTime":915.22,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":915.22,"endTime":917.6,"body":"That's, this is a, this a"},{"startTime":915.22,"endTime":917.6,"body":"whole different podcast."},{"startTime":917.67,"endTime":918.54,"body":"I feel like we did."},{"startTime":918.63,"endTime":919.39,"body":"We'd love to do that."},{"startTime":919.39,"endTime":924.04,"body":"We do, we do do a podcast on ego, but"},{"startTime":919.39,"endTime":924.04,"body":"I think the podcast here is about."},{"startTime":924.19,"endTime":928.77,"body":"Identifying why someone is unwilling"},{"startTime":924.19,"endTime":928.77,"body":"to change their opinion, even in the"},{"startTime":928.77,"endTime":934.09,"body":"face of evidence because there could"},{"startTime":928.77,"endTime":934.09,"body":"be an identity aspect in here as well."},{"startTime":934.24,"endTime":936.75,"body":"Yeah, they may have already put"},{"startTime":934.24,"endTime":936.75,"body":"their bets on the table, right?"},{"startTime":936.9,"endTime":940.43,"body":"So then you show them evidence that"},{"startTime":936.9,"endTime":940.43,"body":"basically leads them to understand"},{"startTime":940.43,"endTime":942.05,"body":"that their bets are going to fail."},{"startTime":942.2,"endTime":943.1,"body":"They're going to resist you."},{"startTime":943.31,"endTime":943.7,"body":"Right."},{"startTime":943.85,"endTime":944.14,"body":"Right."},{"startTime":944.43,"endTime":945.48,"body":"That's the bottom line, I think."},{"startTime":945.63,"endTime":948.73,"body":"And again, what I told you on a previous"},{"startTime":945.63,"endTime":948.73,"body":"podcast and what we were talking about"},{"startTime":948.73,"endTime":952.81,"body":"earlier today you know, I've, I've"},{"startTime":948.73,"endTime":952.81,"body":"encountered this in the real world with"},{"startTime":952.91,"endTime":956.47,"body":"like the development manager I was talking"},{"startTime":952.91,"endTime":956.47,"body":"about who, he owned the stats system"},{"startTime":956.47,"endTime":959.689,"body":"and, the stats were not transparent,"},{"startTime":956.47,"endTime":959.689,"body":"people could not just go to the stats."},{"startTime":959.69,"endTime":961.8,"body":"that to the system to get clean stats."},{"startTime":962.04,"endTime":964.94,"body":"They would ask him for the report"},{"startTime":962.04,"endTime":964.94,"body":"they wanted and he would generate"},{"startTime":964.95,"endTime":966.04,"body":"the report and send it to them."},{"startTime":966.26,"endTime":969.91,"body":"And of course he would throw out the"},{"startTime":966.26,"endTime":969.91,"body":"outliers before he sent them the stats."},{"startTime":969.91,"endTime":974.28,"body":"So they got quote, clean stats,"},{"startTime":969.91,"endTime":974.28,"body":"so there was like, there was"},{"startTime":974.28,"endTime":975.77,"body":"some obfuscation happening."},{"startTime":975.92,"endTime":976.21,"body":"Absolutely."},{"startTime":976.36,"endTime":981.04,"body":"We've seen that this happens typically"},{"startTime":976.36,"endTime":981.04,"body":"the, the public facing aspect of"},{"startTime":981.23,"endTime":982.58,"body":"military leaders are like that."},{"startTime":982.6,"endTime":985.76,"body":"I mean, they're going to always sugarcoat"},{"startTime":982.6,"endTime":985.76,"body":"things and tone things down and."},{"startTime":985.91,"endTime":988.82,"body":"Whatever else dress it down,"},{"startTime":985.91,"endTime":988.82,"body":"but people out in the field"},{"startTime":988.82,"endTime":989.98,"body":"know what's going on, right?"},{"startTime":990.09,"endTime":994.08,"body":"Yeah, and then unfortunately what happens"},{"startTime":990.09,"endTime":994.08,"body":"though as a result of all this is it"},{"startTime":994.08,"endTime":997.77,"body":"creates distrust between You know the"},{"startTime":994.08,"endTime":997.77,"body":"troops and the leadership right and"},{"startTime":997.77,"endTime":1000.83,"body":"that that's sad because that's never"},{"startTime":997.77,"endTime":1000.83,"body":"gonna lead to anything good, right?"},{"startTime":1000.99,"endTime":1005.095,"body":"You might know that you're not in a"},{"startTime":1000.99,"endTime":1005.095,"body":"data driven culture if you know every"},{"startTime":1005.245,"endTime":1008.975,"body":"session or when a big blow up happens"},{"startTime":1005.245,"endTime":1008.975,"body":"or whatever, you see the big tap dance"},{"startTime":1008.975,"endTime":1013.605,"body":"happening and you know, it's, it's not a"},{"startTime":1008.975,"endTime":1013.605,"body":"straight a to B to C type of conversation"},{"startTime":1013.605,"endTime":1017.185,"body":"of like this, this specific thing"},{"startTime":1013.605,"endTime":1017.185,"body":"happened and now let's go to a five whys"},{"startTime":1017.205,"endTime":1019.185,"body":"exercise or this specific thing happened."},{"startTime":1019.185,"endTime":1021.36,"body":"And here's Here's the things"},{"startTime":1019.185,"endTime":1021.36,"body":"we're going to implement to make"},{"startTime":1021.36,"endTime":1022.35,"body":"sure it doesn't happen again."},{"startTime":1022.42,"endTime":1024.37,"body":"Ego out of it, emotions out of it."},{"startTime":1024.38,"endTime":1025.71,"body":"Type of type of situation."},{"startTime":1025.89,"endTime":1026.26,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":1026.31,"endTime":1026.56,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":1026.56,"endTime":1029.03,"body":"Reality on the ground though,"},{"startTime":1026.56,"endTime":1029.03,"body":"really is that doesn't happen."},{"startTime":1029.03,"endTime":1032.85,"body":"And what happens instead is like you said,"},{"startTime":1029.03,"endTime":1032.85,"body":"obfuscation also a lot of deflection."},{"startTime":1033.0,"endTime":1033.12,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":1033.28,"endTime":1036.31,"body":"Oh, it was because of bad weather"},{"startTime":1033.28,"endTime":1036.31,"body":"that this happened, right?"},{"startTime":1036.56,"endTime":1039.07,"body":"It's like, no, that could"},{"startTime":1036.56,"endTime":1039.07,"body":"have been prevented."},{"startTime":1039.22,"endTime":1042.09,"body":"Well, you're probably not going to solve"},{"startTime":1039.22,"endTime":1042.09,"body":"your problems in companies like that."},{"startTime":1042.15,"endTime":1044.77,"body":"No, you're probably gonna have the same"},{"startTime":1042.15,"endTime":1044.77,"body":"problems occurring over and over and over."},{"startTime":1044.77,"endTime":1047.07,"body":"We're going to give you the same"},{"startTime":1044.77,"endTime":1047.07,"body":"advice we always give you on this."},{"startTime":1047.32,"endTime":1049.56,"body":"Podcast, which is keep"},{"startTime":1047.32,"endTime":1049.56,"body":"that resume updated."},{"startTime":1049.64,"endTime":1052.88,"body":"when you decide to launch a new"},{"startTime":1049.64,"endTime":1052.88,"body":"product there's, there's a bunch of"},{"startTime":1052.88,"endTime":1057.12,"body":"different go to market strategies"},{"startTime":1052.88,"endTime":1057.12,"body":"that, that are pretty traditional."},{"startTime":1057.13,"endTime":1060.34,"body":"Like you learn about them in,"},{"startTime":1057.13,"endTime":1060.34,"body":"in basic marketing type stuff."},{"startTime":1060.49,"endTime":1065.89,"body":"However the rollout that I prefer"},{"startTime":1060.49,"endTime":1065.89,"body":"is to do an MVP, a real MVP."},{"startTime":1066.04,"endTime":1072.18,"body":"Not, not a minimum viable feature"},{"startTime":1066.04,"endTime":1072.18,"body":"set or minimum viable cat herder or"},{"startTime":1072.18,"endTime":1074.77,"body":"whatever people make up, you know."},{"startTime":1074.92,"endTime":1079.37,"body":"I don't know, like actual MVP of"},{"startTime":1074.92,"endTime":1079.37,"body":"the business viability of I'm going"},{"startTime":1079.37,"endTime":1081.13,"body":"to test this with these customers."},{"startTime":1081.18,"endTime":1084.49,"body":"You know, the funny thing is, we were"},{"startTime":1081.18,"endTime":1084.49,"body":"talking about user interviews you"},{"startTime":1084.49,"endTime":1088.425,"body":"can, I mean, if you're willing to"},{"startTime":1084.49,"endTime":1088.425,"body":"compensate people for their time for user"},{"startTime":1088.425,"endTime":1092.84,"body":"interviews, you can get a lot of mileage"},{"startTime":1088.425,"endTime":1092.84,"body":"out of a very little amount of money."},{"startTime":1092.99,"endTime":1098.21,"body":"I mean, you could even go find out"},{"startTime":1092.99,"endTime":1098.21,"body":"who consumes your competitor products"},{"startTime":1098.41,"endTime":1101.43,"body":"and interview them because I mean,"},{"startTime":1098.41,"endTime":1101.43,"body":"they're just customers like they're"},{"startTime":1101.43,"endTime":1104.63,"body":"not They're your customers maybe but"},{"startTime":1101.43,"endTime":1104.63,"body":"yeah, they're just walking into the"},{"startTime":1104.63,"endTime":1108.5,"body":"shop Like they're not they're not loyal"},{"startTime":1104.63,"endTime":1108.5,"body":"slash beholden to only shop from that"},{"startTime":1108.5,"endTime":1111.2,"body":"shop Like they're very likely they're"},{"startTime":1108.5,"endTime":1111.2,"body":"not under any kind of contract where"},{"startTime":1111.2,"endTime":1115.54,"body":"they can't even talk to anyone else"},{"startTime":1111.2,"endTime":1115.54,"body":"You could interview like hey, buddy."},{"startTime":1115.54,"endTime":1119.21,"body":"I like 100 bucks, 50 bucks for 20"},{"startTime":1115.54,"endTime":1119.21,"body":"minutes of your time  and maybe"},{"startTime":1119.21,"endTime":1120.53,"body":"we got some valuable insights."},{"startTime":1120.55,"endTime":1124.26,"body":"This is exactly how a lot of the"},{"startTime":1120.55,"endTime":1124.26,"body":"the pharmaceutical businesses is"},{"startTime":1124.34,"endTime":1126.19,"body":"operating right now where they will."},{"startTime":1126.34,"endTime":1130.02,"body":"Figure out who are some of the"},{"startTime":1126.34,"endTime":1130.02,"body":"actual patients that are suffering"},{"startTime":1130.02,"endTime":1133.88,"body":"from, whatever, insert your"},{"startTime":1130.02,"endTime":1133.88,"body":"malady here high blood pressure or"},{"startTime":1134.03,"endTime":1135.37,"body":"diabetes, whatever it is, right?"},{"startTime":1135.39,"endTime":1139.49,"body":"And they will ask them a bunch of"},{"startTime":1135.39,"endTime":1139.49,"body":"questions, and they will learn so much."},{"startTime":1139.64,"endTime":1142.92,"body":"They will ask you things like,"},{"startTime":1139.64,"endTime":1142.92,"body":"Are you using anything for"},{"startTime":1143.18,"endTime":1145.03,"body":"controlling your condition, right?"},{"startTime":1145.06,"endTime":1146.49,"body":"How well is it working, right?"},{"startTime":1146.49,"endTime":1148.98,"body":"What do you wish that it would"},{"startTime":1146.49,"endTime":1148.98,"body":"do that it's not doing today?"},{"startTime":1149.03,"endTime":1150.3,"body":"Yeah, that's gold."},{"startTime":1150.34,"endTime":1153.82,"body":"Now they're not throwing the other company"},{"startTime":1150.34,"endTime":1153.82,"body":"under the bus at all by doing this, right?"},{"startTime":1153.85,"endTime":1158.7,"body":"All they're doing is learning the real"},{"startTime":1153.85,"endTime":1158.7,"body":"pain points from the people that matter"},{"startTime":1158.72,"endTime":1160.41,"body":"the most, which is your customers."},{"startTime":1160.635,"endTime":1163.025,"body":"The paying customers at the"},{"startTime":1160.635,"endTime":1163.025,"body":"end of the day that you hope to"},{"startTime":1163.025,"endTime":1164.965,"body":"satisfy with your product, right?"},{"startTime":1165.115,"endTime":1166.195,"body":"I think it's fantastic."},{"startTime":1166.195,"endTime":1167.815,"body":"I think people should"},{"startTime":1166.195,"endTime":1167.815,"body":"do that more and more."},{"startTime":1167.965,"endTime":1171.575,"body":"Unfortunately, we don't see that"},{"startTime":1167.965,"endTime":1171.575,"body":"outside of a few industries like that."},{"startTime":1171.595,"endTime":1174.485,"body":"Like maybe I think the pharma"},{"startTime":1171.595,"endTime":1174.485,"body":"industry is leading the way here."},{"startTime":1174.815,"endTime":1176.635,"body":"But others, not so much."},{"startTime":1176.805,"endTime":1177.095,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":1177.435,"endTime":1178.025,"body":"Software."},{"startTime":1178.025,"endTime":1179.065,"body":"We hardly ever see that."},{"startTime":1179.105,"endTime":1179.585,"body":"Hardly."},{"startTime":1179.6,"endTime":1179.84,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":1179.84,"endTime":1180.39,"body":"Hardly ever."},{"startTime":1180.5,"endTime":1182.73,"body":"There's a lot of, a lot to"},{"startTime":1180.5,"endTime":1182.73,"body":"be gained by doing that."},{"startTime":1182.88,"endTime":1185.75,"body":"And there's, I mean, survey"},{"startTime":1182.88,"endTime":1185.75,"body":"technology is out there."},{"startTime":1185.76,"endTime":1189.91,"body":"You could throw a wide net, get a lot"},{"startTime":1185.76,"endTime":1189.91,"body":"of survey responses and then filter"},{"startTime":1189.91,"endTime":1194.84,"body":"through the surveys to get your exact"},{"startTime":1189.91,"endTime":1194.84,"body":"fit for what you're looking for."},{"startTime":1194.99,"endTime":1199.26,"body":"So as long as you can construct a fairly"},{"startTime":1194.99,"endTime":1199.26,"body":"decent survey and there's knowledge"},{"startTime":1199.26,"endTime":1200.84,"body":"out there to how to construct a survey."},{"startTime":1201.17,"endTime":1205.58,"body":"So, I feel so much of the survey"},{"startTime":1201.17,"endTime":1205.58,"body":"questions for what would be relevant to"},{"startTime":1205.58,"endTime":1207.39,"body":"your company would be company specific."},{"startTime":1207.41,"endTime":1209.23,"body":"So, I don't even really"},{"startTime":1207.41,"endTime":1209.23,"body":"want to go into that now."},{"startTime":1209.45,"endTime":1211.19,"body":"We probably could do a"},{"startTime":1209.45,"endTime":1211.19,"body":"whole podcast on surveys."},{"startTime":1211.19,"endTime":1213.48,"body":"We probably could find some"},{"startTime":1211.19,"endTime":1213.48,"body":"people that are, that know."},{"startTime":1213.63,"endTime":1217.44,"body":"how to really conduct real, real"},{"startTime":1213.63,"endTime":1217.44,"body":"pointed surveys to get at the"},{"startTime":1217.59,"endTime":1218.52,"body":"point of what they're looking for."},{"startTime":1218.8,"endTime":1219.1,"body":"But"},{"startTime":1219.1,"endTime":1223.93,"body":"when I'm through the MVP phase,"},{"startTime":1219.1,"endTime":1223.93,"body":"I know that this idea is going"},{"startTime":1223.93,"endTime":1227.87,"body":"to go over well with a particular"},{"startTime":1223.93,"endTime":1227.87,"body":"market segment or a particular"},{"startTime":1227.93,"endTime":1230.18,"body":"audience of a market segment, right?"},{"startTime":1230.33,"endTime":1234.47,"body":"Let's niche down to a very specific"},{"startTime":1230.33,"endTime":1234.47,"body":"audience inside of a market segment."},{"startTime":1234.51,"endTime":1234.82,"body":"Yep."},{"startTime":1234.97,"endTime":1235.29,"body":"Try it out."},{"startTime":1235.44,"endTime":1237.24,"body":"You can't be all things to all customers."},{"startTime":1237.54,"endTime":1241.38,"body":"Well, we're trying, we're trying"},{"startTime":1237.54,"endTime":1241.38,"body":"to identify the underserved group."},{"startTime":1241.53,"endTime":1242.44,"body":"That's what we're trying to do."},{"startTime":1242.59,"endTime":1245.95,"body":"It's a lot easier to say like a rattle"},{"startTime":1242.59,"endTime":1245.95,"body":"off in like a one sentence thing."},{"startTime":1245.95,"endTime":1249.54,"body":"Then in actuality, it's like probably"},{"startTime":1245.95,"endTime":1249.54,"body":"weeks and months of work to, to"},{"startTime":1249.56,"endTime":1251.3,"body":"identify this underserved group."},{"startTime":1251.56,"endTime":1254.94,"body":"If you, if you don't know any of"},{"startTime":1251.56,"endTime":1254.94,"body":"the users, like ideally, like I've"},{"startTime":1254.94,"endTime":1258.58,"body":"always been in a good position where"},{"startTime":1254.94,"endTime":1258.58,"body":"I'm coupled with founders or domain"},{"startTime":1258.58,"endTime":1261.58,"body":"experts or people from the industry."},{"startTime":1261.805,"endTime":1265.665,"body":"that now work in the business and they"},{"startTime":1261.805,"endTime":1265.665,"body":"can point you in the right direction."},{"startTime":1265.995,"endTime":1268.155,"body":"And then they point you at"},{"startTime":1265.995,"endTime":1268.155,"body":"people who are very influential."},{"startTime":1268.305,"endTime":1272.485,"body":"And then those influential people can"},{"startTime":1268.305,"endTime":1272.485,"body":"point you to to 5, 10 other people."},{"startTime":1272.805,"endTime":1274.895,"body":"I think conferences are a"},{"startTime":1272.805,"endTime":1274.895,"body":"great fertile ground for that."},{"startTime":1274.905,"endTime":1275.95,"body":"Conferences, yeah, yeah."},{"startTime":1276.11,"endTime":1276.73,"body":"Yeah, good one."},{"startTime":1276.73,"endTime":1276.99,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":1277.14,"endTime":1280.06,"body":"So let's assume that we've"},{"startTime":1277.14,"endTime":1280.06,"body":"got to the point where we"},{"startTime":1280.06,"endTime":1281.41,"body":"defined what the problem is."},{"startTime":1281.41,"endTime":1283.46,"body":"We find the fact that it's worth solving."},{"startTime":1283.57,"endTime":1286.48,"body":"We have an MVP that we've"},{"startTime":1283.57,"endTime":1286.48,"body":"kind of crafted now, right?"},{"startTime":1286.49,"endTime":1287.47,"body":"So we have a target audience."},{"startTime":1287.49,"endTime":1294.12,"body":"We have the MVP would be every every"},{"startTime":1287.49,"endTime":1294.12,"body":"feature that we think is important."},{"startTime":1294.37,"endTime":1296.45,"body":"We've tested with that audience."},{"startTime":1296.75,"endTime":1298.63,"body":"So 234 features."},{"startTime":1298.78,"endTime":1300.01,"body":"Hey, is this good for you?"},{"startTime":1300.02,"endTime":1301.29,"body":"Yes, yes, absolutely."},{"startTime":1301.3,"endTime":1301.89,"body":"You must have."},{"startTime":1301.91,"endTime":1302.47,"body":"Fantastic."},{"startTime":1302.47,"endTime":1303.38,"body":"I'll use that right away."},{"startTime":1303.38,"endTime":1304.38,"body":"I'll sign up tomorrow."},{"startTime":1304.53,"endTime":1308.77,"body":"I've got my signup list that I said,"},{"startTime":1304.53,"endTime":1308.77,"body":"if you, if we gave you this and it did"},{"startTime":1308.77,"endTime":1310.59,"body":"whatever, and it maybe looked like this."},{"startTime":1310.74,"endTime":1314.52,"body":"Would you sign up, here's a here's"},{"startTime":1310.74,"endTime":1314.52,"body":"a form, sign up to be on the early,"},{"startTime":1314.76,"endTime":1316.26,"body":"early list to test it or whatever."},{"startTime":1316.27,"endTime":1317.7,"body":"I'm trying not to use any"},{"startTime":1316.27,"endTime":1317.7,"body":"terminology right now."},{"startTime":1317.72,"endTime":1318.14,"body":"I get that."},{"startTime":1318.14,"endTime":1321.35,"body":"So I think that's really kind"},{"startTime":1318.14,"endTime":1321.35,"body":"of the natural progression."},{"startTime":1321.39,"endTime":1323.77,"body":"What happens after that part, right?"},{"startTime":1324.05,"endTime":1324.23,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":1324.23,"endTime":1324.99,"body":"What would you do?"},{"startTime":1325.14,"endTime":1326.69,"body":"Say you have a few people interested."},{"startTime":1326.72,"endTime":1329.15,"body":"They filled out that form"},{"startTime":1326.72,"endTime":1329.15,"body":"and they're interested."},{"startTime":1329.43,"endTime":1330.45,"body":"What's the next step?"},{"startTime":1330.45,"endTime":1334.31,"body":"Is the next step maybe just to say"},{"startTime":1330.45,"endTime":1334.31,"body":"Listen, try it out for real, right?"},{"startTime":1334.33,"endTime":1336.5,"body":"And that's, that's that"},{"startTime":1334.33,"endTime":1336.5,"body":"pilot that we talk about."},{"startTime":1336.51,"endTime":1338.3,"body":"Oftentimes that term is misunderstood."},{"startTime":1338.45,"endTime":1341.47,"body":"People say we're piloting when all"},{"startTime":1338.45,"endTime":1341.47,"body":"they're doing is UAT internally."},{"startTime":1341.51,"endTime":1342.34,"body":"That's not a pilot."},{"startTime":1342.49,"endTime":1347.17,"body":"A pilot is when you have potential"},{"startTime":1342.49,"endTime":1347.17,"body":"customers using your product"},{"startTime":1347.24,"endTime":1348.7,"body":"as though it was in production."},{"startTime":1349.035,"endTime":1350.625,"body":"That's the definition of a pilot."},{"startTime":1350.895,"endTime":1353.055,"body":"Otherwise it's not a"},{"startTime":1350.895,"endTime":1353.055,"body":"pilot, it's just a UAT."},{"startTime":1353.055,"endTime":1356.675,"body":"Or whatever you want to say, SAT,"},{"startTime":1353.055,"endTime":1356.675,"body":"UAT, all these AT terms, right?"},{"startTime":1357.025,"endTime":1359.965,"body":"A pilot means that somebody"},{"startTime":1357.025,"endTime":1359.965,"body":"tried it out, for real."},{"startTime":1360.295,"endTime":1362.645,"body":"They're not throwing away their"},{"startTime":1360.295,"endTime":1362.645,"body":"existing system by all means."},{"startTime":1362.665,"endTime":1366.025,"body":"They're doing this in parallel,"},{"startTime":1362.665,"endTime":1366.025,"body":"maybe they can do some comparisons."},{"startTime":1366.175,"endTime":1366.465,"body":"Right?"},{"startTime":1366.755,"endTime":1369.405,"body":"But they're giving you valuable"},{"startTime":1366.755,"endTime":1369.405,"body":"feedback because they actually"},{"startTime":1369.425,"endTime":1370.875,"body":"tried out in their environment."},{"startTime":1371.025,"endTime":1375.585,"body":"The framework that I would deploy for"},{"startTime":1371.025,"endTime":1375.585,"body":"this is alpha, beta, and production."},{"startTime":1375.595,"endTime":1377.665,"body":"That's the, the basic"},{"startTime":1375.595,"endTime":1377.665,"body":"framework that I will roll out."},{"startTime":1377.675,"endTime":1380.785,"body":"And, you can get more complicated"},{"startTime":1377.675,"endTime":1380.785,"body":"than that if you want, but, and"},{"startTime":1380.785,"endTime":1382.265,"body":"sometimes you can even skip alpha."},{"startTime":1382.415,"endTime":1386.775,"body":"The concept is, I would"},{"startTime":1382.415,"endTime":1386.775,"body":"take my MVP confirmations of"},{"startTime":1386.785,"endTime":1388.475,"body":"these things are valuable."},{"startTime":1388.605,"endTime":1392.325,"body":"I would rank them internally with my team,"},{"startTime":1388.605,"endTime":1392.325,"body":"based on all the research that we got."},{"startTime":1392.475,"endTime":1393.905,"body":"Or maybe we'd rank them with customers."},{"startTime":1393.925,"endTime":1394.235,"body":"I don't know."},{"startTime":1394.245,"endTime":1398.035,"body":"It depends if it's for a couple customers"},{"startTime":1394.245,"endTime":1398.035,"body":"or really like one specific customer."},{"startTime":1398.205,"endTime":1398.835,"body":"Could be different."},{"startTime":1398.885,"endTime":1400.445,"body":"But the point is, it doesn't matter."},{"startTime":1400.445,"endTime":1401.795,"body":"There's some kind of ranking involved."},{"startTime":1402.065,"endTime":1402.835,"body":"We pick one."},{"startTime":1402.985,"endTime":1408.035,"body":"We start developing that one to be an"},{"startTime":1402.985,"endTime":1408.035,"body":"actual product that people will be able"},{"startTime":1408.285,"endTime":1411.355,"body":"to pay money for and use in production."},{"startTime":1411.505,"endTime":1414.345,"body":"And this is where, this is where like"},{"startTime":1411.505,"endTime":1414.345,"body":"a lot of my disagreement with MVP"},{"startTime":1414.355,"endTime":1416.605,"body":"comes in, which is this alpha release."},{"startTime":1416.795,"endTime":1418.335,"body":"Like it doesn't scale."},{"startTime":1418.555,"endTime":1419.925,"body":"We're watching it every day."},{"startTime":1420.155,"endTime":1421.445,"body":"We're double checking the logs."},{"startTime":1421.605,"endTime":1425.385,"body":"You got the product manager with their"},{"startTime":1421.605,"endTime":1425.385,"body":"phone checking the stats every day"},{"startTime":1425.385,"endTime":1427.185,"body":"and sending out emails or whatever."},{"startTime":1427.185,"endTime":1430.985,"body":"And I mean, you got your engineer"},{"startTime":1427.185,"endTime":1430.985,"body":"babysitting it cause, the application"},{"startTime":1430.985,"endTime":1434.385,"body":"pool needs to be reset before it runs"},{"startTime":1430.985,"endTime":1434.385,"body":"out of memory, or it's running on this"},{"startTime":1434.415,"endTime":1437.765,"body":"machine and you don't want to swap it"},{"startTime":1434.415,"endTime":1437.765,"body":"over to this to the proper machine it"},{"startTime":1437.805,"endTime":1440.725,"body":"should be running on or you run it and"},{"startTime":1437.805,"endTime":1440.725,"body":"you don't think like there's not a hard"},{"startTime":1440.725,"endTime":1445.485,"body":"drive space or memory or whatever,  the"},{"startTime":1440.725,"endTime":1445.485,"body":"point is, it's not meant to last forever"},{"startTime":1445.635,"endTime":1450.485,"body":"in its current form, it's really meant"},{"startTime":1445.635,"endTime":1450.485,"body":"to say, hey, let's prove that we can do"},{"startTime":1450.485,"endTime":1455.715,"body":"this, let's gather evidence of if people"},{"startTime":1450.485,"endTime":1455.715,"body":"are using it, how they're using it, let's"},{"startTime":1455.735,"endTime":1458.005,"body":"get their feedback about how they use it."},{"startTime":1458.155,"endTime":1460.535,"body":"And let's talk to them, every"},{"startTime":1458.155,"endTime":1460.535,"body":"single feature we put out,"},{"startTime":1460.535,"endTime":1461.945,"body":"let's talk to them about it."},{"startTime":1462.095,"endTime":1463.965,"body":"The sprint review, this"},{"startTime":1462.095,"endTime":1463.965,"body":"is the whole point of it."},{"startTime":1463.985,"endTime":1467.855,"body":"Every time you touch that software and"},{"startTime":1463.985,"endTime":1467.855,"body":"put something out, get that customer"},{"startTime":1467.855,"endTime":1471.725,"body":"on a, on a, on a call, have them"},{"startTime":1467.855,"endTime":1471.725,"body":"walk through it and just watch them."},{"startTime":1471.725,"endTime":1474.245,"body":"You know, this is what you,"},{"startTime":1471.725,"endTime":1474.245,"body":"this is what UX people do."},{"startTime":1474.245,"endTime":1476.005,"body":"And somehow it's magic."},{"startTime":1476.23,"endTime":1477.14,"body":"Right, right."},{"startTime":1477.49,"endTime":1480.24,"body":"So a couple of things I want to"},{"startTime":1477.49,"endTime":1480.24,"body":"just kind of unravel there, right?"},{"startTime":1480.24,"endTime":1482.87,"body":"So I absolutely agree in principle."},{"startTime":1483.02,"endTime":1486.88,"body":"The MVP isn't designed"},{"startTime":1483.02,"endTime":1486.88,"body":"to be scalable, right?"},{"startTime":1487.09,"endTime":1490.67,"body":"So maybe you don't reset the application"},{"startTime":1487.09,"endTime":1490.67,"body":"pool because whatever you've set"},{"startTime":1490.67,"endTime":1493.32,"body":"it to, it's There and if it sits"},{"startTime":1490.67,"endTime":1493.32,"body":"in Spain's, you learn from that."},{"startTime":1493.32,"endTime":1495.71,"body":"Yeah, it's not like you have"},{"startTime":1493.32,"endTime":1495.71,"body":"thousands of users on yet."},{"startTime":1495.86,"endTime":1496.23,"body":"Eso."},{"startTime":1496.23,"endTime":1496.66,"body":"That's one."},{"startTime":1496.67,"endTime":1500.48,"body":"The other thing is when you're getting"},{"startTime":1496.67,"endTime":1500.48,"body":"feedback from the customer, it's,"},{"startTime":1500.63,"endTime":1502.32,"body":"it's gotta be real time feedback."},{"startTime":1502.54,"endTime":1505.58,"body":"It's not like go use it for a couple"},{"startTime":1502.54,"endTime":1505.58,"body":"of weeks and come back to us because"},{"startTime":1505.73,"endTime":1508.63,"body":"one of two things that happen,"},{"startTime":1505.73,"endTime":1508.63,"body":"they'll use it half heartedly if"},{"startTime":1508.63,"endTime":1511.58,"body":"it only sort of works some of the"},{"startTime":1508.63,"endTime":1511.58,"body":"times or they'll stop it, they'll"},{"startTime":1511.58,"endTime":1513.13,"body":"stop using the, this thing crashes."},{"startTime":1513.28,"endTime":1515.81,"body":"It crashes because it's not"},{"startTime":1513.28,"endTime":1515.81,"body":"designed to do all these 15 other"},{"startTime":1515.81,"endTime":1517.12,"body":"things that you're trying to do."},{"startTime":1517.27,"endTime":1518.53,"body":"So educate the customer."},{"startTime":1518.53,"endTime":1519.89,"body":"Somebody needs to shadow them."},{"startTime":1520.04,"endTime":1520.36,"body":"Right?"},{"startTime":1520.4,"endTime":1521.31,"body":"I don't know who that is."},{"startTime":1521.32,"endTime":1524.57,"body":"Maybe it's your your tech lead,"},{"startTime":1521.32,"endTime":1524.57,"body":"architect sales, whoever it is."},{"startTime":1524.61,"endTime":1527.03,"body":"They need to shadow them and say,"},{"startTime":1524.61,"endTime":1527.03,"body":"this is all it's supposed to do."},{"startTime":1527.25,"endTime":1528.11,"body":"Just use that part."},{"startTime":1528.17,"endTime":1529.08,"body":"How do you like that?"},{"startTime":1529.23,"endTime":1529.54,"body":"Right?"},{"startTime":1529.69,"endTime":1531.14,"body":"Get that feedback in quickly."},{"startTime":1531.4,"endTime":1532.48,"body":"That's, that's one thing."},{"startTime":1532.48,"endTime":1535.38,"body":"The second thing I want to say yeah,"},{"startTime":1532.48,"endTime":1535.38,"body":"definitely get your customer in on"},{"startTime":1535.38,"endTime":1537.1,"body":"your sprint reviews every sprint."},{"startTime":1537.25,"endTime":1539.4,"body":"But you don't you don't"},{"startTime":1537.25,"endTime":1539.4,"body":"have to wait until then."},{"startTime":1539.74,"endTime":1544.02,"body":"The minute you have something spun up"},{"startTime":1539.74,"endTime":1544.02,"body":"that kind of looks usable, get them on."},{"startTime":1544.17,"endTime":1546.54,"body":"So it could be a week"},{"startTime":1544.17,"endTime":1546.54,"body":"into your two week sprint."},{"startTime":1546.78,"endTime":1547.63,"body":"Don't wait another week."},{"startTime":1547.64,"endTime":1548.19,"body":"Get them on."},{"startTime":1548.27,"endTime":1549.57,"body":"And say, here's how it looks."},{"startTime":1549.63,"endTime":1551.13,"body":"Are we going in the right direction here?"},{"startTime":1551.28,"endTime":1555.14,"body":"It's far better to pivot then, than wait"},{"startTime":1551.28,"endTime":1555.14,"body":"till the end of the sprint, in principle"},{"startTime":1555.14,"endTime":1558.52,"body":"it doesn't matter much, but the earlier"},{"startTime":1555.14,"endTime":1558.52,"body":"the better is what I'm saying, right?"},{"startTime":1558.67,"endTime":1558.96,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":1559.11,"endTime":1562.57,"body":"And I I think of an alpha"},{"startTime":1559.11,"endTime":1562.57,"body":"as it's very fragile."},{"startTime":1562.7,"endTime":1563.67,"body":"It doesn't scale."},{"startTime":1563.78,"endTime":1567.67,"body":"It doesn't do more than maybe one"},{"startTime":1563.78,"endTime":1567.67,"body":"or two things at all, really at all."},{"startTime":1567.72,"endTime":1568.07,"body":"Right."},{"startTime":1568.13,"endTime":1570.44,"body":"That's the, and, and the,"},{"startTime":1568.13,"endTime":1570.44,"body":"and the users that you've"},{"startTime":1570.44,"endTime":1573.32,"body":"invited are a closed ecosystem."},{"startTime":1573.47,"endTime":1575.61,"body":"You know, you're not opening"},{"startTime":1573.47,"endTime":1575.61,"body":"it up for the whole world to"},{"startTime":1575.61,"endTime":1576.93,"body":"create free accounts or whatever."},{"startTime":1577.14,"endTime":1579.08,"body":"You might do that in a beta phase."},{"startTime":1579.265,"endTime":1583.795,"body":"Where you've said I want to onboard X"},{"startTime":1579.265,"endTime":1583.795,"body":"amount of users or I want to, I want in"},{"startTime":1583.795,"endTime":1588.475,"body":"the beta phase, I want to allow basically"},{"startTime":1583.795,"endTime":1588.475,"body":"all my users in my existing app to flip"},{"startTime":1588.475,"endTime":1592.475,"body":"over to this new, like if I have a mobile"},{"startTime":1588.475,"endTime":1592.475,"body":"app already published in the store, I"},{"startTime":1592.475,"endTime":1595.735,"body":"want to add a link inside of it that"},{"startTime":1592.475,"endTime":1595.735,"body":"says, Hey, we have a new mobile app."},{"startTime":1595.735,"endTime":1598.765,"body":"It does this other business function"},{"startTime":1595.735,"endTime":1598.765,"body":"that the the current one doesn't do."},{"startTime":1598.915,"endTime":1600.145,"body":"We think it's really great."},{"startTime":1600.295,"endTime":1600.935,"body":"Here's a link."},{"startTime":1601.095,"endTime":1603.395,"body":"It'll take you to the app"},{"startTime":1601.095,"endTime":1603.395,"body":"store and download the new one."},{"startTime":1603.485,"endTime":1604.545,"body":"It's completely separate."},{"startTime":1604.695,"endTime":1607.285,"body":"That, that, then you're allowing"},{"startTime":1604.695,"endTime":1607.285,"body":"people to sign up for a closed beta."},{"startTime":1607.455,"endTime":1611.055,"body":"Like maybe you don't, maybe it's not in"},{"startTime":1607.455,"endTime":1611.055,"body":"the app store for general availability."},{"startTime":1611.055,"endTime":1614.405,"body":"Maybe only the people that are currently"},{"startTime":1611.055,"endTime":1614.405,"body":"signed up for your current app can use"},{"startTime":1614.405,"endTime":1617.725,"body":"the new or what I don't know how you"},{"startTime":1614.405,"endTime":1617.725,"body":"invite people to the, to the beta, but"},{"startTime":1617.735,"endTime":1621.075,"body":"the idea is now that you have a couple"},{"startTime":1617.735,"endTime":1621.075,"body":"of different pieces of functionality."},{"startTime":1621.285,"endTime":1624.905,"body":"What we went to before, we're like,"},{"startTime":1621.285,"endTime":1624.905,"body":"well, when we, we said we MVP to all"},{"startTime":1624.905,"endTime":1628.605,"body":"these features, we, we, we decided"},{"startTime":1624.905,"endTime":1628.605,"body":"that yes, the customers do want them."},{"startTime":1628.755,"endTime":1630.015,"body":"Yes, there is signal there."},{"startTime":1630.025,"endTime":1630.275,"body":"Yes."},{"startTime":1630.275,"endTime":1634.555,"body":"We have signups or whatever pre"},{"startTime":1630.275,"endTime":1634.555,"body":"pre pre NDAs or whatever else."},{"startTime":1634.645,"endTime":1634.725,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":1634.725,"endTime":1635.995,"body":"Whatever, whatever it"},{"startTime":1634.725,"endTime":1635.995,"body":"would be for the alpha."},{"startTime":1636.335,"endTime":1640.705,"body":"Or maybe you're not doing it like GA"},{"startTime":1636.335,"endTime":1640.705,"body":"type of like open it up to people."},{"startTime":1640.705,"endTime":1642.625,"body":"Maybe it's like one company."},{"startTime":1642.745,"endTime":1644.175,"body":"If you're doing like B2B, right."},{"startTime":1644.325,"endTime":1644.555,"body":"Right."},{"startTime":1644.555,"endTime":1645.435,"body":"One company says."},{"startTime":1645.63,"endTime":1650.64,"body":"Hey, sign us up and then we'll be your"},{"startTime":1645.63,"endTime":1650.64,"body":"alpha tester or we'll be your beta your"},{"startTime":1650.64,"endTime":1653.68,"body":"beta customer or whatever so you're,"},{"startTime":1650.64,"endTime":1653.68,"body":"you're, you're bringing on companies"},{"startTime":1654.01,"endTime":1657.61,"body":"into your product ecosystem, whatever it"},{"startTime":1654.01,"endTime":1657.61,"body":"is that could be, cause I did that way"},{"startTime":1657.61,"endTime":1662.06,"body":"back in the day when software used to be"},{"startTime":1657.61,"endTime":1662.06,"body":"installed you know, CDs, send people CDs."},{"startTime":1662.06,"endTime":1662.63,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":1662.78,"endTime":1665.1,"body":"There's a couple of things there"},{"startTime":1662.78,"endTime":1665.1,"body":"that I want to also touch on"},{"startTime":1665.1,"endTime":1669.78,"body":"here, which is oftentimes the term"},{"startTime":1665.1,"endTime":1669.78,"body":"alpha, beta are misunderstood."},{"startTime":1670.1,"endTime":1670.42,"body":"Right?"},{"startTime":1670.68,"endTime":1674.41,"body":"So what I found is a lot of that"},{"startTime":1670.68,"endTime":1674.41,"body":"people say, well, it's alpha."},{"startTime":1674.41,"endTime":1676.34,"body":"It's internal within our own company."},{"startTime":1676.61,"endTime":1678.8,"body":"Customers are not seeing"},{"startTime":1676.61,"endTime":1678.8,"body":"that could be okay."},{"startTime":1678.82,"endTime":1679.82,"body":"That's your definition."},{"startTime":1679.82,"endTime":1680.24,"body":"That's okay."},{"startTime":1680.24,"endTime":1681.3,"body":"You can go with that, right?"},{"startTime":1681.45,"endTime":1684.29,"body":"In terms of inviting customers,"},{"startTime":1681.45,"endTime":1684.29,"body":"you could do one of two things."},{"startTime":1684.31,"endTime":1688.32,"body":"You could either invite them onto"},{"startTime":1684.31,"endTime":1688.32,"body":"a stage environment Which is a"},{"startTime":1688.33,"endTime":1690.25,"body":"copy of their production system."},{"startTime":1690.3,"endTime":1692.63,"body":"So their risk is completely eliminated."},{"startTime":1692.87,"endTime":1695.04,"body":"It's separate from their"},{"startTime":1692.87,"endTime":1695.04,"body":"actual production system."},{"startTime":1695.28,"endTime":1699.09,"body":"But it's a copy and they can use"},{"startTime":1695.28,"endTime":1699.09,"body":"that one sliver of functionality"},{"startTime":1699.09,"endTime":1700.23,"body":"that you're delivering here."},{"startTime":1700.38,"endTime":1701.04,"body":"That's one way."},{"startTime":1701.08,"endTime":1705.41,"body":"The other way is to use feature"},{"startTime":1701.08,"endTime":1705.41,"body":"toggles and then they can toggle on"},{"startTime":1705.41,"endTime":1707.36,"body":"the functionality in their environment."},{"startTime":1707.57,"endTime":1710.76,"body":"But the risk is still reduced"},{"startTime":1707.57,"endTime":1710.76,"body":"because if the proverbial crap"},{"startTime":1710.76,"endTime":1713.78,"body":"hits the fan, they can turn off"},{"startTime":1710.76,"endTime":1713.78,"body":"the toggle and they're safe again."},{"startTime":1713.81,"endTime":1714.04,"body":"Right?"},{"startTime":1714.19,"endTime":1716.09,"body":"So there's many approaches to this, right?"},{"startTime":1716.32,"endTime":1719.64,"body":"I think, you need to kind of"},{"startTime":1716.32,"endTime":1719.64,"body":"Understand what the customer's"},{"startTime":1719.64,"endTime":1721.46,"body":"comfort level is and go with that."},{"startTime":1721.49,"endTime":1725.04,"body":"Because there's a lot to be said"},{"startTime":1721.49,"endTime":1725.04,"body":"for having the customer come and"},{"startTime":1725.04,"endTime":1726.67,"body":"work with you shoulder to shoulder."},{"startTime":1726.76,"endTime":1730.64,"body":"If they're not comfortable, already"},{"startTime":1726.76,"endTime":1730.64,"body":"they've got the defenses up, right?"},{"startTime":1730.67,"endTime":1733.98,"body":"And the minute something goes wrong,"},{"startTime":1730.67,"endTime":1733.98,"body":"the second, the first thing goes"},{"startTime":1733.98,"endTime":1735.17,"body":"wrong, they're on their guard."},{"startTime":1735.41,"endTime":1736.71,"body":"Oh, this is broke, right?"},{"startTime":1736.71,"endTime":1740.07,"body":"So if you want to improve your chances,"},{"startTime":1736.71,"endTime":1740.07,"body":"think through how you're going to do the"},{"startTime":1740.07,"endTime":1744.54,"body":"actual the deployment and the measurement,"},{"startTime":1740.07,"endTime":1744.54,"body":"the telemetry after you've deployed it."},{"startTime":1744.69,"endTime":1746.7,"body":"Because that's something"},{"startTime":1744.69,"endTime":1746.7,"body":"that's quite Quite lacking."},{"startTime":1746.73,"endTime":1749.98,"body":"Well, all this is very difficult"},{"startTime":1746.73,"endTime":1749.98,"body":"to do if you're not data driven."},{"startTime":1750.13,"endTime":1750.89,"body":"Absolutely."},{"startTime":1750.9,"endTime":1755.93,"body":"It's impossible If you've picked a bad"},{"startTime":1750.9,"endTime":1755.93,"body":"partner if a lot of your prep work has not"},{"startTime":1755.93,"endTime":1760.24,"body":"been done in good faith or now not been"},{"startTime":1755.93,"endTime":1760.24,"body":"done with the proper diligence Now, when"},{"startTime":1760.24,"endTime":1763.95,"body":"you get to trying to move between alpha"},{"startTime":1760.24,"endTime":1763.95,"body":"and beta it's going to bring you a lot of"},{"startTime":1763.95,"endTime":1768.03,"body":"pain that you've you've chosen the wrong"},{"startTime":1763.95,"endTime":1768.03,"body":"partner who is like your alpha server,"},{"startTime":1768.03,"endTime":1773.54,"body":"for example, there's no guarantee of"},{"startTime":1768.03,"endTime":1773.54,"body":"availability of a product in alpha phase."},{"startTime":1773.66,"endTime":1776.0,"body":"Like the product could be non operational."},{"startTime":1776.15,"endTime":1779.77,"body":"For hours at a time or, or, or we"},{"startTime":1776.15,"endTime":1779.77,"body":"could just turn off the server when"},{"startTime":1779.77,"endTime":1783.3,"body":"we're not at work could be just be"},{"startTime":1779.77,"endTime":1783.3,"body":"off and there will not necessarily"},{"startTime":1783.3,"endTime":1786.51,"body":"be a bad thing because you know, when"},{"startTime":1783.3,"endTime":1786.51,"body":"you're talking about cloud tech, right?"},{"startTime":1786.57,"endTime":1788.46,"body":"Those servers cost money every second."},{"startTime":1788.47,"endTime":1789.44,"body":"They're up and spinning."},{"startTime":1789.78,"endTime":1790.96,"body":"So yeah, turn them off."},{"startTime":1791.11,"endTime":1791.67,"body":"5 p."},{"startTime":1791.67,"endTime":1791.83,"body":"m."},{"startTime":1791.83,"endTime":1792.23,"body":"6 p."},{"startTime":1792.23,"endTime":1792.37,"body":"m."},{"startTime":1792.37,"endTime":1793.74,"body":"or whatever until the next morning."},{"startTime":1793.89,"endTime":1794.86,"body":"You're saving money there."},{"startTime":1794.91,"endTime":1795.9,"body":"Turn them off over the weekend."},{"startTime":1795.93,"endTime":1799.95,"body":"I specifically think about data science"},{"startTime":1795.93,"endTime":1799.95,"body":"applications where the GPUs are processing"},{"startTime":1799.95,"endTime":1801.59,"body":"all those mathematical operations."},{"startTime":1801.64,"endTime":1805.52,"body":"Like, they're extremely expensive,"},{"startTime":1801.64,"endTime":1805.52,"body":"so I can completely see, we're only"},{"startTime":1805.52,"endTime":1808.41,"body":"going to run these servers for 8"},{"startTime":1805.52,"endTime":1808.41,"body":"hours a day, and it's only one where"},{"startTime":1808.41,"endTime":1811.98,"body":"they're here to monitor them because"},{"startTime":1808.41,"endTime":1811.98,"body":"We don't want to work the whatever at"},{"startTime":1811.98,"endTime":1814.69,"body":"two in the morning trying to figure"},{"startTime":1811.98,"endTime":1814.69,"body":"out why a server needs to be rebooted."},{"startTime":1814.71,"endTime":1816.71,"body":"Like we'll, we'll do that"},{"startTime":1814.71,"endTime":1816.71,"body":"in during the work day."},{"startTime":1816.86,"endTime":1818.13,"body":"And that's just your cutoff."},{"startTime":1818.37,"endTime":1820.34,"body":"And if you have partners that"},{"startTime":1818.37,"endTime":1820.34,"body":"are not okay with that, like"},{"startTime":1820.36,"endTime":1821.73,"body":"they are not good partners."},{"startTime":1821.88,"endTime":1824.75,"body":"I mean, unless obviously, unless"},{"startTime":1821.88,"endTime":1824.75,"body":"they're willing to kick you in"},{"startTime":1824.87,"endTime":1826.65,"body":"some money for right, right."},{"startTime":1826.65,"endTime":1830.07,"body":"So you could adjust based on that"},{"startTime":1826.65,"endTime":1830.07,"body":"cause you're catering to their need."},{"startTime":1830.18,"endTime":1834.05,"body":"And they haven't really invested fully,"},{"startTime":1830.18,"endTime":1834.05,"body":"but they're testing the waters, right?"},{"startTime":1834.05,"endTime":1835.4,"body":"So they can pay towards that."},{"startTime":1835.58,"endTime":1838.51,"body":"Or you could adjust and say,"},{"startTime":1835.58,"endTime":1838.51,"body":"look, when are you testing?"},{"startTime":1838.57,"endTime":1841.08,"body":"Are you testing between"},{"startTime":1838.57,"endTime":1841.08,"body":"the hours of 11 and three?"},{"startTime":1841.37,"endTime":1843.02,"body":"We'll have the servers available then."},{"startTime":1843.31,"endTime":1845.65,"body":"So it's just, it's a case"},{"startTime":1843.31,"endTime":1845.65,"body":"by case, I think, but it's"},{"startTime":1845.67,"endTime":1846.66,"body":"something that could be won."},{"startTime":1846.66,"endTime":1848.83,"body":"This is not a battle that"},{"startTime":1846.66,"endTime":1848.83,"body":"you can, you have to lose."},{"startTime":1848.93,"endTime":1852.54,"body":"Again, I go back to my"},{"startTime":1848.93,"endTime":1852.54,"body":"frustration with MVP, like MVP."},{"startTime":1852.69,"endTime":1855.02,"body":"All the conversations you have when"},{"startTime":1852.69,"endTime":1855.02,"body":"you're stepping through a logical"},{"startTime":1855.02,"endTime":1858.05,"body":"progression from alpha to beta"},{"startTime":1855.02,"endTime":1858.05,"body":"to production through the phases."},{"startTime":1858.31,"endTime":1864.39,"body":"Like that stuff is, it clogs up"},{"startTime":1858.31,"endTime":1864.39,"body":"the clarity of MVP is like, is this"},{"startTime":1864.47,"endTime":1868.46,"body":"idea, Viable business viability."},{"startTime":1868.49,"endTime":1869.83,"body":"Is it viable for the business?"},{"startTime":1869.94,"endTime":1874.63,"body":"This idea, not it will the server"},{"startTime":1869.94,"endTime":1874.63,"body":"run 24 seven or whatever like that."},{"startTime":1874.78,"endTime":1877.72,"body":"I probably, I handled that in beta at"},{"startTime":1874.78,"endTime":1877.72,"body":"some point, maybe towards the end of the"},{"startTime":1877.72,"endTime":1881.2,"body":"beta, I don't know, but definitely by"},{"startTime":1877.72,"endTime":1881.2,"body":"GA general release, production release,"},{"startTime":1881.23,"endTime":1884.63,"body":"whatever you want to call it, I've handled"},{"startTime":1881.23,"endTime":1884.63,"body":"scaling the system and making sure it's"},{"startTime":1884.63,"endTime":1887.5,"body":"going to run and making sure that I've"},{"startTime":1884.63,"endTime":1887.5,"body":"got air handling and all that kind of"},{"startTime":1887.5,"endTime":1889.56,"body":"stuff, but the technical feasibility of."},{"startTime":1889.71,"endTime":1893.71,"body":"Can I create the system"},{"startTime":1889.71,"endTime":1893.71,"body":"to be highly available?"},{"startTime":1893.76,"endTime":1896.31,"body":"Can I code in the proper technologies?"},{"startTime":1896.31,"endTime":1899.58,"body":"Can I maintain the solution"},{"startTime":1896.31,"endTime":1899.58,"body":"now into the future?"},{"startTime":1899.9,"endTime":1904.69,"body":"All of this is like technical feasibility"},{"startTime":1899.9,"endTime":1904.69,"body":"of Can I do this with the technology?"},{"startTime":1904.84,"endTime":1908.01,"body":"Completely separate in my brain"},{"startTime":1904.84,"endTime":1908.01,"body":"from the MVP discussion, and that's"},{"startTime":1908.01,"endTime":1911.25,"body":"why it's like super frustrating to"},{"startTime":1908.01,"endTime":1911.25,"body":"me that it's all bundled together."},{"startTime":1911.27,"endTime":1913.07,"body":"Yeah, it's obviously I agree."},{"startTime":1913.09,"endTime":1914.06,"body":"I call this the illities."},{"startTime":1914.21,"endTime":1916.07,"body":"So there's one thing to test out."},{"startTime":1916.22,"endTime":1919.79,"body":"Your MVP, but all the ilities,"},{"startTime":1916.22,"endTime":1919.79,"body":"feasibility, scalability,"},{"startTime":1919.82,"endTime":1921.29,"body":"availability, right?"},{"startTime":1921.48,"endTime":1923.25,"body":"Resilience, all of that's not an ility."},{"startTime":1923.25,"endTime":1925.86,"body":"But anyway, all of"},{"startTime":1923.25,"endTime":1925.86,"body":"those things can follow."},{"startTime":1926.01,"endTime":1929.04,"body":"That's not what you're really"},{"startTime":1926.01,"endTime":1929.04,"body":"putting out there in your MVP."},{"startTime":1929.19,"endTime":1931.44,"body":"It shouldn't be because you"},{"startTime":1929.19,"endTime":1931.44,"body":"are wasting your time there."},{"startTime":1931.59,"endTime":1936.63,"body":"Get your MVP tested and then fix it up"},{"startTime":1931.59,"endTime":1936.63,"body":"so that it is available, it is scalable"},{"startTime":1936.9,"endTime":1938.64,"body":"and all of the ilities are satisfied."},{"startTime":1938.67,"endTime":1938.79,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":1939.0,"endTime":1940.78,"body":"That's secondary to the MVP."},{"startTime":1940.93,"endTime":1944.77,"body":"But at least you know now that you're"},{"startTime":1940.93,"endTime":1944.77,"body":"in the right zip code at least, right?"},{"startTime":1944.81,"endTime":1947.76,"body":"And without that You don't even know."},{"startTime":1947.81,"endTime":1950.68,"body":"Then the, kind of the last thing"},{"startTime":1947.81,"endTime":1950.68,"body":"that I'll, I'll point out during"},{"startTime":1950.68,"endTime":1954.92,"body":"that, that, that alpha beta"},{"startTime":1950.68,"endTime":1954.92,"body":"production  phased type of approach."},{"startTime":1955.07,"endTime":1958.06,"body":"Is watching out for the technical debt."},{"startTime":1958.21,"endTime":1961.6,"body":"Like that kind of what we just talked"},{"startTime":1958.21,"endTime":1961.6,"body":"about is you know, does the system scale,"},{"startTime":1961.6,"endTime":1965.48,"body":"is it going to be available, whatever,"},{"startTime":1961.6,"endTime":1965.48,"body":"like saying no, and then moving on,"},{"startTime":1965.49,"endTime":1969.36,"body":"like saying like, well, no, servers"},{"startTime":1965.49,"endTime":1969.36,"body":"are only going to be on 12 hours a day"},{"startTime":1969.36,"endTime":1973.44,"body":"instead of 24 hours a day like that, that"},{"startTime":1969.36,"endTime":1973.44,"body":"right there is like, okay, let me put"},{"startTime":1973.44,"endTime":1974.97,"body":"a little marker on my technical debt."},{"startTime":1975.08,"endTime":1977.89,"body":"Wall and let me put a little sticky"},{"startTime":1975.08,"endTime":1977.89,"body":"on my wall of technical debt of like"},{"startTime":1978.17,"endTime":1982.86,"body":"we, we have decided that this, these"},{"startTime":1978.17,"endTime":1982.86,"body":"are the technical limitations of our"},{"startTime":1982.86,"endTime":1987.32,"body":"application and we all decided this and"},{"startTime":1982.86,"endTime":1987.32,"body":"we know in some state in the future we're"},{"startTime":1987.32,"endTime":1990.49,"body":"going to have to take these stickies"},{"startTime":1987.32,"endTime":1990.49,"body":"off the wall and address them one at"},{"startTime":1990.49,"endTime":1994.43,"body":"a time but, but you as a business in"},{"startTime":1990.49,"endTime":1994.43,"body":"order to get through these phases."},{"startTime":1994.58,"endTime":1998.92,"body":"You make those tradeoffs, you make"},{"startTime":1994.58,"endTime":1998.92,"body":"those concessions, you put that kind"},{"startTime":1998.92,"endTime":2001.8,"body":"of stuff in your backlog and you say,"},{"startTime":1998.92,"endTime":2001.8,"body":"Oh, for every one of these things that"},{"startTime":2001.81,"endTime":2003.84,"body":"we decide, let's put it over here."},{"startTime":2003.99,"endTime":2004.29,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":2004.29,"endTime":2007.15,"body":"So those are conscious and"},{"startTime":2004.29,"endTime":2007.15,"body":"overt decisions, right?"},{"startTime":2007.37,"endTime":2008.9,"body":"So there's two types of technical debt."},{"startTime":2008.92,"endTime":2012.46,"body":"One is you deliberately say we're"},{"startTime":2008.92,"endTime":2012.46,"body":"not going to work on this now, and"},{"startTime":2012.46,"endTime":2015.75,"body":"that could be going down the path of"},{"startTime":2012.46,"endTime":2015.75,"body":"that now next later kind of thing."},{"startTime":2015.9,"endTime":2017.4,"body":"But then the other one is, is that."},{"startTime":2017.635,"endTime":2020.935,"body":"Covert technical debt that you're"},{"startTime":2017.635,"endTime":2020.935,"body":"doing that that you're building"},{"startTime":2020.935,"endTime":2023.135,"body":"up because of bad practices."},{"startTime":2023.285,"endTime":2027.025,"body":"That's a different issue Those are less"},{"startTime":2023.285,"endTime":2027.025,"body":"visible, but you have to be very vigilant"},{"startTime":2027.035,"endTime":2031.325,"body":"to get those Exposed into your backlog"},{"startTime":2027.035,"endTime":2031.325,"body":"so that you can deal with them that"},{"startTime":2031.325,"endTime":2035.03,"body":"comes later because you've already proven"},{"startTime":2031.325,"endTime":2035.03,"body":"that there's a market That there's a fit"},{"startTime":2035.08,"endTime":2037.64,"body":"that the product is real, that it works."},{"startTime":2037.95,"endTime":2039.81,"body":"It's past alpha, right?"},{"startTime":2039.84,"endTime":2041.96,"body":"And people are willing"},{"startTime":2039.84,"endTime":2041.96,"body":"to go to beta at least."},{"startTime":2042.26,"endTime":2044.27,"body":"Therefore that people are"},{"startTime":2042.26,"endTime":2044.27,"body":"going to pay for that."},{"startTime":2044.3,"endTime":2048.41,"body":"And then at some point you can"},{"startTime":2044.3,"endTime":2048.41,"body":"decide to fix up the technical debt."},{"startTime":2048.7,"endTime":2051.96,"body":"So two sides of the technical debt,"},{"startTime":2048.7,"endTime":2051.96,"body":"the overt and the covert, right?"},{"startTime":2052.21,"endTime":2054.54,"body":"The overt, you already know"},{"startTime":2052.21,"endTime":2054.54,"body":"about it because you've made"},{"startTime":2054.54,"endTime":2055.6,"body":"the trade offs to your point."},{"startTime":2055.65,"endTime":2055.87,"body":"Right."},{"startTime":2055.89,"endTime":2057.24,"body":"And those are usually."},{"startTime":2057.53,"endTime":2059.18,"body":"Time and money related."},{"startTime":2059.33,"endTime":2060.45,"body":"Not now, later."},{"startTime":2060.79,"endTime":2063.526,"body":"We're not going to spend"},{"startTime":2060.79,"endTime":2063.526,"body":"money now to make it scalable."},{"startTime":2063.526,"endTime":2068.17,"body":"But, when we know that it has to"},{"startTime":2063.526,"endTime":2068.17,"body":"serve a thousand users concurrently,"},{"startTime":2068.32,"endTime":2070.49,"body":"we'll get ahead of that and"},{"startTime":2068.32,"endTime":2070.49,"body":"we'll make it scalable then."},{"startTime":2070.79,"endTime":2074.04,"body":"But for now, it doesn't do what it's"},{"startTime":2070.79,"endTime":2074.04,"body":"intended to do at a core minimum."},{"startTime":2074.19,"endTime":2077.28,"body":"Or, you just sell your company and"},{"startTime":2074.19,"endTime":2077.28,"body":"make that somebody else's problem."},{"startTime":2077.44,"endTime":2078.22,"body":"Yeah!"},{"startTime":2078.22,"endTime":2081.37,"body":"And take all your friends with you and"},{"startTime":2078.22,"endTime":2081.37,"body":"go somewhere else and repeat the whole"},{"startTime":2081.38,"endTime":2082.85,"body":"Silicon Valley strategy right there."},{"startTime":2083.0,"endTime":2086.24,"body":"Kick technical debt off until you've"},{"startTime":2083.0,"endTime":2086.24,"body":"made a billion gillion dollars."},{"startTime":2086.62,"endTime":2090.19,"body":"The last of the Marty Kagan four"},{"startTime":2086.62,"endTime":2090.19,"body":"categories that we didn't talk about was"},{"startTime":2090.24,"endTime":2094.02,"body":"like you're going through this alpha beta"},{"startTime":2090.24,"endTime":2094.02,"body":"production and like your UI might look"},{"startTime":2094.02,"endTime":2096.115,"body":"like it's geo cities from the nineties."},{"startTime":2096.175,"endTime":2097.745,"body":"You know, until you hit a"},{"startTime":2096.175,"endTime":2097.745,"body":"point and you have to say."},{"startTime":2097.895,"endTime":2103.315,"body":"Like, is this UX something that people are"},{"startTime":2097.895,"endTime":2103.315,"body":"willing to use and people will be happy"},{"startTime":2103.315,"endTime":2108.465,"body":"to use and that it is clear what path"},{"startTime":2103.315,"endTime":2108.465,"body":"the user should take to the application."},{"startTime":2108.495,"endTime":2110.745,"body":"You've done some basic journey"},{"startTime":2108.495,"endTime":2110.745,"body":"mapping, you know what I mean?"},{"startTime":2110.745,"endTime":2113.625,"body":"You've done some basic understanding"},{"startTime":2110.745,"endTime":2113.625,"body":"of how users solve the problem."},{"startTime":2113.775,"endTime":2119.135,"body":"And you know, it, can users figure out"},{"startTime":2113.775,"endTime":2119.135,"body":"how to use your software somewhere along"},{"startTime":2119.135,"endTime":2121.475,"body":"with this alpha beta production flow?"},{"startTime":2121.625,"endTime":2124.475,"body":"That should be going on just like"},{"startTime":2121.625,"endTime":2124.475,"body":"somewhere along in this flow."},{"startTime":2124.785,"endTime":2127.325,"body":"The discussion of technical"},{"startTime":2124.785,"endTime":2127.325,"body":"feasibility should be going on."},{"startTime":2127.595,"endTime":2131.925,"body":"So I, maybe I don't, I don't"},{"startTime":2127.595,"endTime":2131.925,"body":"put them as early as MVP."},{"startTime":2131.935,"endTime":2133.085,"body":"You certainly could."},{"startTime":2133.305,"endTime":2136.615,"body":"You could do high fidelity user designs."},{"startTime":2136.765,"endTime":2141.255,"body":"You, you could mock up a whole application"},{"startTime":2136.765,"endTime":2141.255,"body":"in, in, in high fidelity wireframes that"},{"startTime":2141.255,"endTime":2144.515,"body":"nobody would even know what was in an"},{"startTime":2141.255,"endTime":2144.515,"body":"application quite honestly because there's"},{"startTime":2144.515,"endTime":2146.255,"body":"so much functionality inside of Figma."},{"startTime":2146.265,"endTime":2147.815,"body":"You can fake stuff left and right."},{"startTime":2147.965,"endTime":2153.165,"body":"XD, Figma, there's tons, yeah,"},{"startTime":2147.965,"endTime":2153.165,"body":"tons but , usability testing."},{"startTime":2153.165,"endTime":2153.705,"body":"That's what I'm saying."},{"startTime":2153.855,"endTime":2156.325,"body":"I kind of put that with the technical"},{"startTime":2153.855,"endTime":2156.325,"body":"feasibility hand in hand where"},{"startTime":2156.325,"endTime":2157.995,"body":"they, they're, they're advancing."},{"startTime":2158.325,"endTime":2161.825,"body":"As we advance along these tracks,"},{"startTime":2158.325,"endTime":2161.825,"body":"but the MVP, does the idea work?"},{"startTime":2161.975,"endTime":2163.755,"body":"I Think that comes before"},{"startTime":2161.975,"endTime":2163.755,"body":"these two categories."},{"startTime":2163.785,"endTime":2164.215,"body":"I'm willing."},{"startTime":2164.215,"endTime":2166.515,"body":"I'm flexible on this one, but I"},{"startTime":2164.215,"endTime":2166.515,"body":"think it comes before it's, it's"},{"startTime":2166.515,"endTime":2169.225,"body":"a tricky one because I think"},{"startTime":2166.515,"endTime":2169.225,"body":"there's a delicate balance, right?"},{"startTime":2169.485,"endTime":2173.055,"body":"Obviously the thing has to be"},{"startTime":2169.485,"endTime":2173.055,"body":"usable, but to what degree?"},{"startTime":2173.075,"endTime":2174.055,"body":"So we're talking about MVP."},{"startTime":2174.745,"endTime":2179.285,"body":"Some usability that befits the"},{"startTime":2174.745,"endTime":2179.285,"body":"MVP functionality has to be"},{"startTime":2179.285,"endTime":2180.605,"body":"incorporated from the beginning."},{"startTime":2180.755,"endTime":2184.155,"body":"What you should be doing though,"},{"startTime":2180.755,"endTime":2184.155,"body":"is to get feedback throughout."},{"startTime":2184.305,"endTime":2189.465,"body":"The process from your users to see where"},{"startTime":2184.305,"endTime":2189.465,"body":"the kinks are right in their journey."},{"startTime":2189.495,"endTime":2193.875,"body":"So you can ease those those"},{"startTime":2189.495,"endTime":2193.875,"body":"issues in subsequent releases."},{"startTime":2194.025,"endTime":2197.315,"body":"I'm assuming that this isn't a gunshot"},{"startTime":2194.025,"endTime":2197.315,"body":"approach where you're saying, well,"},{"startTime":2197.315,"endTime":2199.065,"body":"this is the MVP release and we're done."},{"startTime":2199.315,"endTime":2200.894,"body":"You're saying this is MVP."},{"startTime":2200.895,"endTime":2202.765,"body":"What do you not like about this?"},{"startTime":2203.005,"endTime":2205.605,"body":"And then build it in and know"},{"startTime":2203.005,"endTime":2205.605,"body":"this is the next the next release."},{"startTime":2205.915,"endTime":2209.455,"body":"If you're doing that, then throughout"},{"startTime":2205.915,"endTime":2209.455,"body":"the process, you're getting feedback"},{"startTime":2209.465,"endTime":2213.125,"body":"from the customer on their User"},{"startTime":2209.465,"endTime":2213.125,"body":"experience right and building that in"},{"startTime":2213.395,"endTime":2217.555,"body":"but yeah, I mean don't release an MVP"},{"startTime":2213.395,"endTime":2217.555,"body":"if it's Hard to use because you're"},{"startTime":2217.585,"endTime":2221.505,"body":"already behind the eight ball there"},{"startTime":2217.585,"endTime":2221.505,"body":"Yeah, well that again Mike you hit on"},{"startTime":2221.505,"endTime":2224.425,"body":"my another one of my gripes with MVP."},{"startTime":2224.435,"endTime":2227.645,"body":"It's like, oh, we're gonna pick a date"},{"startTime":2224.435,"endTime":2227.645,"body":"And that'll be the MVP release and"},{"startTime":2227.645,"endTime":2230.765,"body":"then we'll the whole team will move"},{"startTime":2227.645,"endTime":2230.765,"body":"off to another product or whatever"},{"startTime":2230.765,"endTime":2234.835,"body":"is right That's not that's not An"},{"startTime":2230.765,"endTime":2234.835,"body":"MVP, that's not, what are you doing?"},{"startTime":2234.945,"endTime":2235.825,"body":"Like, where'd you go?"},{"startTime":2236.095,"endTime":2237.125,"body":"We just got started."},{"startTime":2237.275,"endTime":2241.175,"body":"You know, you basically, you just"},{"startTime":2237.275,"endTime":2241.175,"body":"kicked off your open beta at that point."},{"startTime":2241.275,"endTime":2244.415,"body":"And you called it an"},{"startTime":2241.275,"endTime":2244.415,"body":"MVP, but it's not an MVP."},{"startTime":2244.445,"endTime":2246.695,"body":"Like, the MVP is just testing ideas."},{"startTime":2246.865,"endTime":2249.065,"body":"Nothing good could come out of"},{"startTime":2246.865,"endTime":2249.065,"body":"that because you're going to have"},{"startTime":2249.075,"endTime":2252.715,"body":"customers screaming at you when these"},{"startTime":2249.075,"endTime":2252.715,"body":"things don't work as well, right?"},{"startTime":2252.735,"endTime":2257.535,"body":"Or don't work at all in some cases"},{"startTime":2252.735,"endTime":2257.535,"body":"and you've already Redeployed"},{"startTime":2257.575,"endTime":2259.135,"body":"your teams to do other things."},{"startTime":2259.145,"endTime":2261.025,"body":"So who's gonna pick up that right?"},{"startTime":2261.235,"endTime":2265.685,"body":"That's a very sour experience Good"},{"startTime":2261.235,"endTime":2265.685,"body":"luck surviving that the old waterfall"},{"startTime":2265.695,"endTime":2267.425,"body":"hyper care period that's even right."},{"startTime":2267.695,"endTime":2268.715,"body":"Yeah You pay for enough hypercare bucks."},{"startTime":2268.715,"endTime":2271.515,"body":"This thing's so bad that for"},{"startTime":2268.715,"endTime":2271.515,"body":"the next 90 days, we're going"},{"startTime":2271.515,"endTime":2272.945,"body":"to just pretend that we care."},{"startTime":2272.965,"endTime":2273.395,"body":"That's right."},{"startTime":2273.605,"endTime":2277.305,"body":"Another one that people kind"},{"startTime":2273.605,"endTime":2277.305,"body":"of fail on is a strategy."},{"startTime":2277.305,"endTime":2279.955,"body":"They'll, they'll build it thinking they"},{"startTime":2277.305,"endTime":2279.955,"body":"got something new and they have no idea"},{"startTime":2280.015,"endTime":2281.835,"body":"what, what they should charge for it."},{"startTime":2282.055,"endTime":2284.825,"body":"This is very difficult because"},{"startTime":2282.055,"endTime":2284.825,"body":"it's very difficult to figure out."},{"startTime":2284.975,"endTime":2286.105,"body":"You know monetization."},{"startTime":2286.105,"endTime":2289.255,"body":"I mean that, that, that, that"},{"startTime":2286.105,"endTime":2289.255,"body":"super easy plan say just figure out"},{"startTime":2289.255,"endTime":2292.365,"body":"what your closest competitors cost"},{"startTime":2289.255,"endTime":2292.365,"body":"and just charge the same as them."},{"startTime":2292.515,"endTime":2293.515,"body":"So how well are they doing?"},{"startTime":2293.655,"endTime":2294.495,"body":"No, I agree."},{"startTime":2294.495,"endTime":2295.835,"body":"This is actually a tricky thing."},{"startTime":2295.835,"endTime":2298.755,"body":"I think that we started"},{"startTime":2295.835,"endTime":2298.755,"body":"with being data driven."},{"startTime":2298.905,"endTime":2302.105,"body":"Definitely figure out where your"},{"startTime":2298.905,"endTime":2302.105,"body":"competitors are charging because"},{"startTime":2302.145,"endTime":2305.225,"body":"that's one little variable"},{"startTime":2302.145,"endTime":2305.225,"body":"in the equation here, right?"},{"startTime":2305.375,"endTime":2308.775,"body":"But the other side of it, which"},{"startTime":2305.375,"endTime":2308.775,"body":"is I think more critical, is what"},{"startTime":2308.775,"endTime":2312.655,"body":"value are you adding on to the"},{"startTime":2308.775,"endTime":2312.655,"body":"functionality you're providing and"},{"startTime":2312.655,"endTime":2314.155,"body":"what is that worth to the customer?"},{"startTime":2314.415,"endTime":2316.845,"body":"Now, you don't have to guess at this."},{"startTime":2316.995,"endTime":2317.345,"body":"Right."},{"startTime":2317.645,"endTime":2321.625,"body":"There's some science to this, which"},{"startTime":2317.645,"endTime":2321.625,"body":"is to say when a customer receives"},{"startTime":2321.625,"endTime":2326.065,"body":"a piece of functionality that they"},{"startTime":2321.625,"endTime":2326.065,"body":"can use from your MVP, let's say,"},{"startTime":2326.215,"endTime":2327.655,"body":"what are they doing with that?"},{"startTime":2327.685,"endTime":2329.175,"body":"Like, what is the benefit for them?"},{"startTime":2329.205,"endTime":2332.315,"body":"Are they saving money or are they"},{"startTime":2329.205,"endTime":2332.315,"body":"making money or are they becoming"},{"startTime":2332.315,"endTime":2333.655,"body":"more effective or efficient?"},{"startTime":2333.665,"endTime":2334.065,"body":"Whatever it is."},{"startTime":2334.215,"endTime":2336.985,"body":"Hone in on that and figure"},{"startTime":2334.215,"endTime":2336.985,"body":"out what it's worth to them."},{"startTime":2337.135,"endTime":2339.315,"body":"And, and, don't be afraid to ask them."},{"startTime":2339.355,"endTime":2340.645,"body":"What is this worth to you?"},{"startTime":2340.675,"endTime":2341.925,"body":"What, what does this mean to you?"},{"startTime":2342.215,"endTime":2342.555,"body":"Right?"},{"startTime":2342.875,"endTime":2344.925,"body":"What do you save by"},{"startTime":2342.875,"endTime":2344.925,"body":"having this functionality?"},{"startTime":2344.925,"endTime":2347.225,"body":"Or what do you, what can you get more of?"},{"startTime":2347.555,"endTime":2347.785,"body":"Right?"},{"startTime":2348.015,"endTime":2351.315,"body":"And based on that, you can"},{"startTime":2348.015,"endTime":2351.315,"body":"guide your pricing strategy."},{"startTime":2351.465,"endTime":2351.765,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":2351.775,"endTime":2356.215,"body":"I've also seen this in terms of how many"},{"startTime":2351.775,"endTime":2356.215,"body":"tools it replaces or but savings, right?"},{"startTime":2356.395,"endTime":2356.505,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":2356.675,"endTime":2357.025,"body":"Savings."},{"startTime":2357.055,"endTime":2357.955,"body":"Yeah, exactly."},{"startTime":2358.005,"endTime":2360.715,"body":"And then, and then going in"},{"startTime":2358.005,"endTime":2360.715,"body":"under that I've also seen more"},{"startTime":2360.715,"endTime":2362.545,"body":"clumsy methods of whatever it is."},{"startTime":2362.695,"endTime":2366.145,"body":"And then just double it and then"},{"startTime":2362.695,"endTime":2366.145,"body":"double it again or something like that."},{"startTime":2366.355,"endTime":2371.485,"body":"I mean, monetization strategies this"},{"startTime":2366.355,"endTime":2371.485,"body":"advice on this is like a dime a dozen."},{"startTime":2371.485,"endTime":2373.085,"body":"You can read a million"},{"startTime":2371.485,"endTime":2373.085,"body":"different strategies."},{"startTime":2373.395,"endTime":2377.895,"body":"Nobody's is going to be satisfied"},{"startTime":2373.395,"endTime":2377.895,"body":"that it's not, none, none, none of it"},{"startTime":2377.895,"endTime":2381.155,"body":"is going to be satisfying because a"},{"startTime":2377.895,"endTime":2381.155,"body":"lot of it depends on your industry."},{"startTime":2381.305,"endTime":2382.785,"body":"And it's very hyper specific."},{"startTime":2382.905,"endTime":2386.405,"body":"Yeah, I mean, sometimes I've seen people"},{"startTime":2382.905,"endTime":2386.405,"body":"take the jeweler's approach, which is"},{"startTime":2386.435,"endTime":2388.095,"body":"it's worth what the customer will pay for."},{"startTime":2388.245,"endTime":2392.915,"body":"And yeah, maybe it works sometimes, but"},{"startTime":2388.245,"endTime":2392.915,"body":"more times than not, it doesn't work."},{"startTime":2392.965,"endTime":2395.83,"body":"Because as soon as that price is out."},{"startTime":2396.17,"endTime":2397.88,"body":"It will be out the minute you say it."},{"startTime":2398.03,"endTime":2401.37,"body":"Your competitor comes in, bolsters"},{"startTime":2398.03,"endTime":2401.37,"body":"up their product to have similar"},{"startTime":2401.37,"endTime":2404.52,"body":"functionality to yours and"},{"startTime":2401.37,"endTime":2404.52,"body":"undercuts you on price, right?"},{"startTime":2404.73,"endTime":2408.83,"body":"So you're already, why would a customer"},{"startTime":2404.73,"endTime":2408.83,"body":"stay with you when you're pricing this"},{"startTime":2408.83,"endTime":2413.21,"body":"thing way up high using the jeweler"},{"startTime":2408.83,"endTime":2413.21,"body":"principle again, when the competitor comes"},{"startTime":2413.21,"endTime":2418.31,"body":"in and says we can do almost that, if not,"},{"startTime":2413.21,"endTime":2418.31,"body":"if not exactly that at a much lower cost."},{"startTime":2418.46,"endTime":2421.56,"body":"Now you've got to Now you're on"},{"startTime":2418.46,"endTime":2421.56,"body":"you're playing defense, right?"},{"startTime":2421.56,"endTime":2424.78,"body":"And you're trying to figure out how you"},{"startTime":2421.56,"endTime":2424.78,"body":"can differentiate yourself even more."},{"startTime":2425.0,"endTime":2429.98,"body":"Maybe like, I think there's a, there"},{"startTime":2425.0,"endTime":2429.98,"body":"is a in the Robert Cialdini influence"},{"startTime":2429.98,"endTime":2434.22,"body":"book, I think there is a a strategy about"},{"startTime":2429.98,"endTime":2434.22,"body":"outpricing all your competition so that"},{"startTime":2434.23,"endTime":2436.04,"body":"you could be seen as like the luxury."},{"startTime":2436.05,"endTime":2436.37,"body":"Sure."},{"startTime":2436.49,"endTime":2436.67,"body":"Good."},{"startTime":2436.67,"endTime":2439.78,"body":"But that, I mean, like not a lot of"},{"startTime":2436.67,"endTime":2439.78,"body":"people can take that strategy because"},{"startTime":2439.83,"endTime":2441.75,"body":"you're counting on a couple of big whales."},{"startTime":2441.9,"endTime":2445.07,"body":"To buy your product rather than"},{"startTime":2441.9,"endTime":2445.07,"body":"like a lot of people you're, you're"},{"startTime":2445.07,"endTime":2448.79,"body":"really trying to hype your market"},{"startTime":2445.07,"endTime":2448.79,"body":"becomes hyper specific at that point."},{"startTime":2449.12,"endTime":2449.35,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":2449.35,"endTime":2453.15,"body":"And yeah, there are examples"},{"startTime":2449.35,"endTime":2453.15,"body":"in industry where these kinds"},{"startTime":2453.15,"endTime":2454.96,"body":"of suppliers are successful."},{"startTime":2455.23,"endTime":2459.1,"body":"But if you look at their products,"},{"startTime":2455.23,"endTime":2459.1,"body":"not only do they have the cache of"},{"startTime":2459.4,"endTime":2461.42,"body":"the name, but the quality is there."},{"startTime":2461.57,"endTime":2461.87,"body":"Right?"},{"startTime":2461.9,"endTime":2463.26,"body":"Not always, but most times."},{"startTime":2463.41,"endTime":2467.05,"body":"And so, yeah, I mean that is a"},{"startTime":2463.41,"endTime":2467.05,"body":"strategy if that's how brave you feel."},{"startTime":2467.2,"endTime":2471.26,"body":"And then like our, our last category about"},{"startTime":2467.2,"endTime":2471.26,"body":"creating new products is at some point"},{"startTime":2471.29,"endTime":2473.88,"body":"you, you are going to need marketing."},{"startTime":2474.1,"endTime":2478.04,"body":"You're going to need a A go to market"},{"startTime":2474.1,"endTime":2478.04,"body":"strategy, whether that go to market"},{"startTime":2478.04,"endTime":2483.71,"body":"strategy is the, the normal traditional"},{"startTime":2478.04,"endTime":2483.71,"body":"media blitz or the, the, the, I think"},{"startTime":2483.71,"endTime":2488.56,"body":"of a traditional media blitz is the same"},{"startTime":2483.71,"endTime":2488.56,"body":"as like a social media blast or campaign"},{"startTime":2488.73,"endTime":2491.77,"body":"or buying ads or defining an audience."},{"startTime":2491.995,"endTime":2497.085,"body":"Like on social media, you'll say, well, I"},{"startTime":2491.995,"endTime":2497.085,"body":"want to, I want to identify suburban women"},{"startTime":2497.085,"endTime":2502.025,"body":"between this age and this as the ethnicity"},{"startTime":2497.085,"endTime":2502.025,"body":"that live in these particular urban areas."},{"startTime":2502.235,"endTime":2505.045,"body":"So I want to advertise this new product"},{"startTime":2502.235,"endTime":2505.045,"body":"to them or whatever, and you'll buy."},{"startTime":2505.195,"endTime":2508.875,"body":"that demographic and you'll just"},{"startTime":2505.195,"endTime":2508.875,"body":"blast it on all the social media"},{"startTime":2508.915,"endTime":2510.075,"body":"sites that you can find whatever."},{"startTime":2510.075,"endTime":2513.145,"body":"I don't, Facebook is the biggest"},{"startTime":2510.075,"endTime":2513.145,"body":"one, but you'll, you'll blast"},{"startTime":2513.145,"endTime":2515.905,"body":"across all the social media"},{"startTime":2513.145,"endTime":2515.905,"body":"applications that you have access to."},{"startTime":2516.055,"endTime":2520.035,"body":"And I equate that basically to"},{"startTime":2516.055,"endTime":2520.035,"body":"like buy and add time on the radio."},{"startTime":2520.035,"endTime":2523.555,"body":"Like you're blasting over whatever"},{"startTime":2520.035,"endTime":2523.555,"body":"media channels you have access to."},{"startTime":2523.705,"endTime":2527.395,"body":"Whether it's to a hyper specific audience"},{"startTime":2523.705,"endTime":2527.395,"body":"or just to like putting a billboards to"},{"startTime":2527.395,"endTime":2529.245,"body":"everyone, whatever works for your product."},{"startTime":2529.245,"endTime":2532.605,"body":"I'm not really sure what what your product"},{"startTime":2529.245,"endTime":2532.605,"body":"would be, but traditional marketing"},{"startTime":2532.665,"endTime":2536.185,"body":"social media marketing, traditional"},{"startTime":2532.665,"endTime":2536.185,"body":"marketing are kind of one strategy of"},{"startTime":2536.205,"endTime":2540.155,"body":"blasted out there and then hope that"},{"startTime":2536.205,"endTime":2540.155,"body":"people that I will tell you, that's a,"},{"startTime":2540.185,"endTime":2541.895,"body":"that's a strategy that scares me the most."},{"startTime":2542.045,"endTime":2544.315,"body":"Well, that's the most"},{"startTime":2542.045,"endTime":2544.315,"body":"prevalent strategy, too."},{"startTime":2544.315,"endTime":2547.755,"body":"I mean, think back to the days when"},{"startTime":2544.315,"endTime":2547.755,"body":"you know, cell phones first came out."},{"startTime":2548.055,"endTime":2551.965,"body":"I, I well remember large companies"},{"startTime":2548.055,"endTime":2551.965,"body":"there's an ampersand in their name they"},{"startTime":2551.965,"endTime":2554.335,"body":"would, they would buy newspaper ads."},{"startTime":2554.395,"endTime":2557.505,"body":"And newspaper ads back in the"},{"startTime":2554.395,"endTime":2557.505,"body":"day, when newspapers were still"},{"startTime":2557.545,"endTime":2560.185,"body":"being read were pretty expensive,"},{"startTime":2557.545,"endTime":2560.185,"body":"especially full page ads."},{"startTime":2560.335,"endTime":2564.665,"body":"And now, when you have a full page ad"},{"startTime":2560.335,"endTime":2564.665,"body":"in, in full color, the price is like"},{"startTime":2564.675,"endTime":2566.295,"body":"eight times that of black and white."},{"startTime":2566.445,"endTime":2567.355,"body":"They would buy these."},{"startTime":2567.505,"endTime":2572.695,"body":"And not necessarily targeted anybody, but"},{"startTime":2567.505,"endTime":2572.695,"body":"it would have upwardly mobile, whatever"},{"startTime":2572.695,"endTime":2577.475,"body":"that means, upwardly mobile people there"},{"startTime":2572.695,"endTime":2577.475,"body":"in suits and with phones, big old phones."},{"startTime":2577.625,"endTime":2580.095,"body":"These people need these"},{"startTime":2577.625,"endTime":2580.095,"body":"phones to communicate."},{"startTime":2580.405,"endTime":2583.275,"body":"So that was the strategy, pretty"},{"startTime":2580.405,"endTime":2583.275,"body":"broad brush at that point."},{"startTime":2583.295,"endTime":2587.745,"body":"And then it became from, it went"},{"startTime":2583.295,"endTime":2587.745,"body":"from there to magazines, right?"},{"startTime":2587.985,"endTime":2588.835,"body":"And from there."},{"startTime":2589.06,"endTime":2591.28,"body":"You know, like you said,"},{"startTime":2589.06,"endTime":2591.28,"body":"and now it's social media."},{"startTime":2591.28,"endTime":2596.46,"body":"So I think the media has changed, but"},{"startTime":2591.28,"endTime":2596.46,"body":"the strategy is largely the same, right?"},{"startTime":2596.64,"endTime":2597.25,"body":"That's what I'm saying."},{"startTime":2597.3,"endTime":2602.05,"body":"There's a luxury car brand that is,"},{"startTime":2597.3,"endTime":2602.05,"body":"it's well known that they, I think"},{"startTime":2602.05,"endTime":2606.9,"body":"they went on record as saying we"},{"startTime":2602.05,"endTime":2606.9,"body":"run these ads for our customers."},{"startTime":2607.0,"endTime":2611.98,"body":"We don't run them for general people that"},{"startTime":2607.0,"endTime":2611.98,"body":"like nobody's going to see on the TV."},{"startTime":2611.98,"endTime":2614.33,"body":"Oh, buy this 100, 000 car."},{"startTime":2614.48,"endTime":2616.7,"body":"But the people that have bought"},{"startTime":2614.48,"endTime":2616.7,"body":"the a hundred thousand, a hundred"},{"startTime":2616.7,"endTime":2619.64,"body":"thousand dollars car, when they see"},{"startTime":2616.7,"endTime":2619.64,"body":"the commercial, they feel better."},{"startTime":2619.7,"endTime":2623.24,"body":"And now they're more brand"},{"startTime":2619.7,"endTime":2623.24,"body":"loyal because they feel special."},{"startTime":2623.24,"endTime":2623.3,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":2623.3,"endTime":2624.55,"body":"Because oh, they're in that category."},{"startTime":2624.67,"endTime":2628.78,"body":"Like the, the, the positioning of"},{"startTime":2624.67,"endTime":2628.78,"body":"like, oh, we are the car brand for"},{"startTime":2628.83,"endTime":2631.02,"body":"smarmy, suburbanites or whatever."},{"startTime":2631.02,"endTime":2631.29,"body":"Like Right."},{"startTime":2631.44,"endTime":2635.64,"body":"The positioning of getting your, getting"},{"startTime":2631.44,"endTime":2635.64,"body":"your name in front of a customer."},{"startTime":2635.92,"endTime":2638.75,"body":"with a we're the people for X or whatever."},{"startTime":2638.9,"endTime":2642.49,"body":"That's a, that is what I think"},{"startTime":2638.9,"endTime":2642.49,"body":"is most covered in this here."},{"startTime":2642.64,"endTime":2642.9,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":2642.9,"endTime":2647.34,"body":"And just taking that a little"},{"startTime":2642.9,"endTime":2647.34,"body":"further, what I've seen with super"},{"startTime":2647.34,"endTime":2649.2,"body":"luxury cars they would normally."},{"startTime":2649.35,"endTime":2653.91,"body":"Pinpoint their audience like existing"},{"startTime":2649.35,"endTime":2653.91,"body":"people that are either running their own"},{"startTime":2653.91,"endTime":2658.93,"body":"vehicles or vehicles of equal in the same"},{"startTime":2653.91,"endTime":2658.93,"body":"bracket, let's just say but they would"},{"startTime":2658.93,"endTime":2663.93,"body":"also leave out some information just to"},{"startTime":2658.93,"endTime":2663.93,"body":"propagate this sense of mystique, right?"},{"startTime":2663.93,"endTime":2668.32,"body":"So a car brand, very popular"},{"startTime":2663.93,"endTime":2668.32,"body":"would not publish their horsepower"},{"startTime":2668.38,"endTime":2669.46,"body":"for their engine, right?"},{"startTime":2669.61,"endTime":2670.38,"body":"Instead of that."},{"startTime":2670.635,"endTime":2672.935,"body":"It simply said engine output."},{"startTime":2673.085,"endTime":2673.625,"body":"One word."},{"startTime":2673.775,"endTime":2674.295,"body":"Adequate."},{"startTime":2674.445,"endTime":2677.145,"body":"And now you think about that"},{"startTime":2674.445,"endTime":2677.145,"body":"and you go, Oh, how much is it?"},{"startTime":2677.415,"endTime":2678.215,"body":"Now you're intrigued."},{"startTime":2678.275,"endTime":2679.855,"body":"You're gonna look further, right?"},{"startTime":2680.135,"endTime":2683.445,"body":"The fact that it was 600 horsepower,"},{"startTime":2680.135,"endTime":2683.445,"body":"way overkill, didn't matter."},{"startTime":2683.595,"endTime":2684.755,"body":"But they didn't tell you that."},{"startTime":2685.065,"endTime":2690.025,"body":"And there's other things like, Every one"},{"startTime":2685.065,"endTime":2690.025,"body":"of their cars, the engine is, they say"},{"startTime":2690.025,"endTime":2695.895,"body":"hand built, and the person that quote"},{"startTime":2690.025,"endTime":2695.895,"body":"unquote owns that that engine throughout"},{"startTime":2695.905,"endTime":2697.955,"body":"the duration of its build process."},{"startTime":2698.285,"endTime":2700.765,"body":"They will stamp their"},{"startTime":2698.285,"endTime":2700.765,"body":"name on the engine block."},{"startTime":2700.945,"endTime":2702.555,"body":"What is that worth to the customer?"},{"startTime":2702.815,"endTime":2704.835,"body":"But it's it's a sense of pride, right?"},{"startTime":2704.895,"endTime":2706.285,"body":"That's what they're selling you on."},{"startTime":2706.435,"endTime":2709.145,"body":"And and implicitly the quality"},{"startTime":2706.435,"endTime":2709.145,"body":"because it's one neck to"},{"startTime":2709.145,"endTime":2710.105,"body":"choke at the end of the day."},{"startTime":2710.105,"endTime":2711.625,"body":"But that's really what they're doing."},{"startTime":2711.775,"endTime":2716.195,"body":"All of these little things add up to"},{"startTime":2711.775,"endTime":2716.195,"body":"the sense of mystique and feel like the"},{"startTime":2716.195,"endTime":2721.075,"body":"customer, the prospective customer feels"},{"startTime":2716.195,"endTime":2721.075,"body":"like they're somehow special or valued."},{"startTime":2721.225,"endTime":2722.765,"body":"That's the whole point of this, right?"},{"startTime":2723.095,"endTime":2723.265,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":2723.305,"endTime":2724.465,"body":"And that there's tactics."},{"startTime":2724.485,"endTime":2726.885,"body":"These are just strategies, but"},{"startTime":2724.485,"endTime":2726.885,"body":"there's tactics they use, right?"},{"startTime":2726.885,"endTime":2727.015,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":2727.075,"endTime":2730.615,"body":"But this is all, all part of their go to"},{"startTime":2727.075,"endTime":2730.615,"body":"market is like, no other car has this."},{"startTime":2730.615,"endTime":2731.945,"body":"No other, yeah, absolutely."},{"startTime":2731.945,"endTime":2733.515,"body":"They're extra bells and whistles."},{"startTime":2733.605,"endTime":2734.775,"body":"Like, are they necessary?"},{"startTime":2734.865,"endTime":2735.725,"body":"Do they really matter?"},{"startTime":2735.915,"endTime":2736.995,"body":"Like, I don't know."},{"startTime":2737.005,"endTime":2737.955,"body":"It depends on your audience."},{"startTime":2738.095,"endTime":2739.225,"body":"If you find the right audience."},{"startTime":2739.385,"endTime":2740.335,"body":"Yeah, they absolutely matter."},{"startTime":2740.475,"endTime":2743.675,"body":"where I started with the whole MVP"},{"startTime":2740.475,"endTime":2743.675,"body":"thing is like, you have, if you really"},{"startTime":2743.675,"endTime":2746.365,"body":"are launching a software product"},{"startTime":2743.675,"endTime":2746.365,"body":"from the ground up, you probably"},{"startTime":2746.365,"endTime":2747.765,"body":"need to find those early adopters."},{"startTime":2747.765,"endTime":2751.145,"body":"If we're talking about the"},{"startTime":2747.765,"endTime":2751.145,"body":"technology adoption life cycle, the."},{"startTime":2751.295,"endTime":2751.955,"body":"The curve, right?"},{"startTime":2751.955,"endTime":2753.774,"body":"That crossing chasm, right?"},{"startTime":2753.825,"endTime":2757.255,"body":"If we're talking about that, you need to"},{"startTime":2753.825,"endTime":2757.255,"body":"identify that audience of early adopters."},{"startTime":2757.275,"endTime":2760.465,"body":"And, and if it's not you going"},{"startTime":2757.275,"endTime":2760.465,"body":"out and surveying and finding and"},{"startTime":2760.735,"endTime":2765.385,"body":"constructing that group, then that"},{"startTime":2760.735,"endTime":2765.385,"body":"group may already exist as a community."},{"startTime":2765.395,"endTime":2767.805,"body":"It's you don't going and"},{"startTime":2765.395,"endTime":2767.805,"body":"joining that community."},{"startTime":2767.975,"endTime":2771.555,"body":"I mean, the agile community is"},{"startTime":2767.975,"endTime":2771.555,"body":"a community like this, right?"},{"startTime":2771.605,"endTime":2773.675,"body":"You know, if you were trying, if"},{"startTime":2771.605,"endTime":2773.675,"body":"you were trying to sell a product."},{"startTime":2773.825,"endTime":2775.325,"body":"Whatever that product might be."},{"startTime":2775.395,"endTime":2778.955,"body":"Could be, could be classes, could be"},{"startTime":2775.395,"endTime":2778.955,"body":"your latest training, could be anything."},{"startTime":2778.995,"endTime":2780.785,"body":"If you were trying to sell"},{"startTime":2778.995,"endTime":2780.785,"body":"a product to this group."},{"startTime":2781.105,"endTime":2784.845,"body":"You would go to whatever the Facebook"},{"startTime":2781.105,"endTime":2784.845,"body":"groups or the meetups or wherever"},{"startTime":2784.845,"endTime":2787.975,"body":"where these people are, conferences"},{"startTime":2784.845,"endTime":2787.975,"body":"where these people are, and you would"},{"startTime":2788.255,"endTime":2790.285,"body":"continually peddle your your wares."},{"startTime":2790.435,"endTime":2792.545,"body":"And that's being done"},{"startTime":2790.435,"endTime":2792.545,"body":"all the time, as we know."},{"startTime":2792.555,"endTime":2793.135,"body":"I mean, is it?"},{"startTime":2793.135,"endTime":2794.035,"body":"I don't know, maybe."},{"startTime":2794.085,"endTime":2796.395,"body":"I don't know, it's been a while since"},{"startTime":2794.085,"endTime":2796.395,"body":"I went to a conference, but I do"},{"startTime":2796.425,"endTime":2798.085,"body":"remember going to one some time ago."},{"startTime":2798.235,"endTime":2801.615,"body":"They would offer a 50 percent discount"},{"startTime":2798.235,"endTime":2801.615,"body":"if you signed up for their course."},{"startTime":2801.665,"endTime":2802.445,"body":"Yeah, buy my book."},{"startTime":2802.695,"endTime":2805.595,"body":"But, finding the community that's"},{"startTime":2802.695,"endTime":2805.595,"body":"already existing is one way."},{"startTime":2805.745,"endTime":2810.065,"body":"Building that community, because they"},{"startTime":2805.745,"endTime":2810.065,"body":"don't exist, is a whole more difficult."},{"startTime":2810.095,"endTime":2813.115,"body":"Is a way more difficult, but,"},{"startTime":2810.095,"endTime":2813.115,"body":"but also equally effective."},{"startTime":2813.155,"endTime":2815.975,"body":"It's very rewarding if you can"},{"startTime":2813.155,"endTime":2815.975,"body":"pull it off, but it's an order"},{"startTime":2815.975,"endTime":2817.455,"body":"of magnitude more difficult."},{"startTime":2817.605,"endTime":2818.045,"body":"Yes."},{"startTime":2818.195,"endTime":2818.535,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":2818.685,"endTime":2819.995,"body":"fiNding the early adopters."},{"startTime":2820.145,"endTime":2825.845,"body":"Going to them and pitching your solution"},{"startTime":2820.145,"endTime":2825.845,"body":"to them to their specific problem that"},{"startTime":2825.845,"endTime":2828.825,"body":"nobody else is solving Whether you're"},{"startTime":2825.845,"endTime":2828.825,"body":"building a community out of them or"},{"startTime":2828.825,"endTime":2833.525,"body":"not Finding a community that's already"},{"startTime":2828.825,"endTime":2833.525,"body":"underserved for things and then We haven't"},{"startTime":2833.565,"endTime":2838.365,"body":"even talked about the whole product led"},{"startTime":2833.565,"endTime":2838.365,"body":"growth movement that's out there that"},{"startTime":2838.375,"endTime":2842.225,"body":"many, many successful company we just"},{"startTime":2838.375,"endTime":2842.225,"body":"talked about Figma, Canva, a bunch of"},{"startTime":2842.225,"endTime":2844.855,"body":"other companies that I could probably"},{"startTime":2842.225,"endTime":2844.855,"body":"think about off the top of my head."},{"startTime":2844.865,"endTime":2847.485,"body":"If I really sat down, a lot"},{"startTime":2844.865,"endTime":2847.485,"body":"of SAS products do this."},{"startTime":2847.525,"endTime":2848.035,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":2848.185,"endTime":2851.205,"body":"You know, product led growth,"},{"startTime":2848.185,"endTime":2851.205,"body":"which is the sign up, you get the"},{"startTime":2851.205,"endTime":2854.745,"body":"basic features and then for a few"},{"startTime":2851.205,"endTime":2854.745,"body":"dollars more per month you can get."},{"startTime":2854.94,"endTime":2857.47,"body":"You know, all of our premium"},{"startTime":2854.94,"endTime":2857.47,"body":"features that hopefully they're good."},{"startTime":2857.62,"endTime":2858.0,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":2858.0,"endTime":2858.29,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":2858.29,"endTime":2863.37,"body":"And some of that is also, well, you get"},{"startTime":2858.29,"endTime":2863.37,"body":"this thing for free, but it's ad driven"},{"startTime":2863.37,"endTime":2867.49,"body":"and whatever else, and pay more money and"},{"startTime":2863.37,"endTime":2867.49,"body":"we'll take the ads off and whatever else."},{"startTime":2867.64,"endTime":2871.44,"body":"So these are different ways of"},{"startTime":2867.64,"endTime":2871.44,"body":"really getting in with your,"},{"startTime":2871.59,"endTime":2873.87,"body":"your, your target market area."},{"startTime":2874.08,"endTime":2874.33,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":2874.4,"endTime":2877.15,"body":"That's exactly  but we didn't talk about"},{"startTime":2874.4,"endTime":2877.15,"body":"strategic partnerships either, like a"},{"startTime":2877.3,"endTime":2880.44,"body":"bundling your service or your software"},{"startTime":2877.3,"endTime":2880.44,"body":"or whatever, with another company that"},{"startTime":2880.44,"endTime":2883.43,"body":"already had, that was already in the"},{"startTime":2880.44,"endTime":2883.43,"body":"market and you cut them in and like"},{"startTime":2883.44,"endTime":2885.91,"body":"that, I worked for a company a long"},{"startTime":2883.44,"endTime":2885.91,"body":"time that that was, that, that was"},{"startTime":2885.91,"endTime":2889.63,"body":"their main measure of success is that"},{"startTime":2885.91,"endTime":2889.63,"body":"they had these they, they had channel"},{"startTime":2889.63,"endTime":2892.51,"body":"partners too, but they had these means"},{"startTime":2889.63,"endTime":2892.51,"body":"they had these strategic partners"},{"startTime":2892.66,"endTime":2896.49,"body":"that you know, they'd cut a certain"},{"startTime":2892.66,"endTime":2896.49,"body":"amount of revenue if they resold."},{"startTime":2896.505,"endTime":2898.355,"body":"You know, yeah, there's handshaking."},{"startTime":2898.385,"endTime":2899.905,"body":"So there's that, that one."},{"startTime":2899.905,"endTime":2901.905,"body":"And then the other one is"},{"startTime":2899.905,"endTime":2901.905,"body":"piggybacking off of there."},{"startTime":2901.905,"endTime":2903.705,"body":"So there's plenty of techniques out there."},{"startTime":2903.855,"endTime":2904.745,"body":"I mean, that, that's good."},{"startTime":2904.775,"endTime":2908.095,"body":"I mean, it does require a little bit of"},{"startTime":2904.775,"endTime":2908.095,"body":"you know, executive horsepower to make"},{"startTime":2908.095,"endTime":2909.345,"body":"these partnerships and stuff like that."},{"startTime":2909.355,"endTime":2911.075,"body":"But again, it's just another community."},{"startTime":2911.095,"endTime":2912.335,"body":"It's just another yeah."},{"startTime":2912.485,"endTime":2916.405,"body":"I just want to say that we started"},{"startTime":2912.485,"endTime":2916.405,"body":"this podcast by introducing"},{"startTime":2916.745,"endTime":2918.875,"body":"the term zero to one, right?"},{"startTime":2919.025,"endTime":2921.065,"body":"Maybe there's interim steps in between."},{"startTime":2921.085,"endTime":2924.065,"body":"Maybe you go zero to a quarter"},{"startTime":2921.085,"endTime":2924.065,"body":"or a half and then go to one."},{"startTime":2924.215,"endTime":2924.845,"body":"I don't know."},{"startTime":2925.065,"endTime":2925.765,"body":"Just putting it out there."},{"startTime":2925.805,"endTime":2926.515,"body":"No, sorry."},{"startTime":2926.515,"endTime":2930.255,"body":"There's only zero or MVP"},{"startTime":2926.515,"endTime":2930.255,"body":"slash production release."},{"startTime":2930.295,"endTime":2931.825,"body":"MVP slash production release."},{"startTime":2931.975,"endTime":2934.855,"body":"That's what I learned today, which"},{"startTime":2931.975,"endTime":2934.855,"body":"is it's just, just pick a date out"},{"startTime":2934.855,"endTime":2938.165,"body":"of the air and take your MVP to"},{"startTime":2934.855,"endTime":2938.165,"body":"production and then fire your team"},{"startTime":2938.195,"endTime":2939.195,"body":"because you're in production now."},{"startTime":2939.195,"endTime":2942.495,"body":"So it's all good to put something up"},{"startTime":2939.195,"endTime":2942.495,"body":"in the air, turn on the fan at full"},{"startTime":2942.655,"endTime":2945.785,"body":"speed and hope something sticks on one"},{"startTime":2942.655,"endTime":2945.785,"body":"of the walls, build something and hope"},{"startTime":2945.785,"endTime":2950.653,"body":"that people will buy it with no plan on"},{"startTime":2945.785,"endTime":2950.653,"body":"how much, like that by the end of this,"},{"startTime":2950.653,"endTime":2955.583,"body":"hopefully you're, you're at least informed"},{"startTime":2950.653,"endTime":2955.583,"body":"about some of the things not to do."},{"startTime":2955.633,"endTime":2958.833,"body":"If you see your company headed in the"},{"startTime":2955.633,"endTime":2958.833,"body":"direction of building something with"},{"startTime":2958.833,"endTime":2963.543,"body":"no plan how to price it or no plan how"},{"startTime":2958.833,"endTime":2963.543,"body":"to market it or you don't know what the"},{"startTime":2963.543,"endTime":2966.203,"body":"roadmap looks like to, to get to GA."},{"startTime":2966.203,"endTime":2968.613,"body":"You just, Oh, we're going to launch"},{"startTime":2966.203,"endTime":2968.613,"body":"our MVP and it'll be in production."},{"startTime":2968.613,"endTime":2969.573,"body":"Everyone can sign up for it."},{"startTime":2969.633,"endTime":2969.863,"body":"Yay."},{"startTime":2970.013,"endTime":2973.353,"body":"Well, let's take a step back and some"},{"startTime":2970.013,"endTime":2973.353,"body":"random person on the internet told me"},{"startTime":2973.353,"endTime":2976.613,"body":"that like unless we're kind of thinking"},{"startTime":2973.353,"endTime":2976.613,"body":"about these you know, we, we may be"},{"startTime":2976.613,"endTime":2981.863,"body":"headed for a rocky waters with our company"},{"startTime":2976.613,"endTime":2981.863,"body":"slash definitely our product for sure."},{"startTime":2981.873,"endTime":2985.203,"body":"Maybe our company, depending on how much"},{"startTime":2981.873,"endTime":2985.203,"body":"money we throw into that sinking ship."},{"startTime":2985.233,"endTime":2986.923,"body":"Maybe the individuals listen to this."},{"startTime":2986.953,"endTime":2987.813,"body":"Maybe their job."},{"startTime":2988.093,"endTime":2992.233,"body":"So at the end of the day, look,"},{"startTime":2988.093,"endTime":2992.233,"body":"hope and a prayer ain't a strategy."},{"startTime":2992.383,"endTime":2995.303,"body":"Also I'm not saying you have to"},{"startTime":2992.383,"endTime":2995.303,"body":"have all these skills and you"},{"startTime":2995.303,"endTime":2996.403,"body":"have to do all this yourself."},{"startTime":2996.553,"endTime":2999.863,"body":"Like you could certainly reach"},{"startTime":2996.553,"endTime":2999.863,"body":"out, get some help with marketing,"},{"startTime":2999.873,"endTime":3003.213,"body":"hire somebody part time or hire"},{"startTime":2999.873,"endTime":3003.213,"body":"some services a couple of hours."},{"startTime":3003.363,"endTime":3005.763,"body":"from somebody who, who's an"},{"startTime":3003.363,"endTime":3005.763,"body":"expert in the field to help you."},{"startTime":3005.823,"endTime":3009.023,"body":"If your company is real small or whatever,"},{"startTime":3005.823,"endTime":3009.023,"body":"like you don't have to do all this alone."},{"startTime":3009.103,"endTime":3009.883,"body":"Absolutely."},{"startTime":3009.893,"endTime":3010.463,"body":"Buy a rent."},{"startTime":3010.513,"endTime":3013.053,"body":"I mean, do what's do what's needed, right?"},{"startTime":3013.083,"endTime":3015.583,"body":"But validate what's needed first, right?"},{"startTime":3015.603,"endTime":3016.893,"body":"See if you can monetize it."},{"startTime":3016.893,"endTime":3019.213,"body":"Is it worth it to be in"},{"startTime":3016.893,"endTime":3019.213,"body":"this game to begin with?"},{"startTime":3019.363,"endTime":3019.643,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":3019.983,"endTime":3021.003,"body":"Ask for help."},{"startTime":3021.203,"endTime":3024.993,"body":"The worst your company can do is say,"},{"startTime":3021.203,"endTime":3024.993,"body":"no, , we want you to do marketing"},{"startTime":3025.003,"endTime":3028.783,"body":"and product management and direct"},{"startTime":3025.003,"endTime":3028.783,"body":"sales and do your own stunts."},{"startTime":3028.933,"endTime":3032.083,"body":"Well, if that happens yeah, just call"},{"startTime":3028.933,"endTime":3032.083,"body":"a Brian and Om's software company."},{"startTime":3032.093,"endTime":3032.543,"body":"That's right."},{"startTime":3032.553,"endTime":3033.853,"body":"And ask for a raise!"},{"startTime":3033.903,"endTime":3034.273,"body":"All right."},{"startTime":3034.273,"endTime":3037.483,"body":"So with that, hopefully this"},{"startTime":3034.273,"endTime":3037.483,"body":"has been informative valuable."},{"startTime":3037.743,"endTime":3041.123,"body":"For you, let us know in the comments"},{"startTime":3037.743,"endTime":3041.123,"body":"down below, what other subjects"},{"startTime":3041.123,"endTime":3042.263,"body":"you'd like us to delve into."},{"startTime":3042.283,"endTime":3042.603,"body":"That's right."},{"startTime":3042.753,"endTime":3045.263,"body":"Hopefully, hopefully this"},{"startTime":3042.753,"endTime":3045.263,"body":"has been minimum and viable."},{"startTime":3045.413,"endTime":3046.103,"body":"Absolutely."},{"startTime":3046.103,"endTime":3046.823,"body":"It's yes."},{"startTime":3046.883,"endTime":3049.603,"body":"And, and don't forget to"},{"startTime":3046.883,"endTime":3049.603,"body":"subscribe and like that's right."}]}