{"version":"1.0.0","segments":[{"startTime":0.0,"endTime":3.669,"body":"I want to have a podcast to help somebody"},{"startTime":0.0,"endTime":3.669,"body":"who's looking for a product manager job"},{"startTime":3.77,"endTime":7.86,"body":"because I have got this question that I"},{"startTime":3.77,"endTime":7.86,"body":"ask in all my product manager interviews."},{"startTime":8.2,"endTime":9.42,"body":"And it goes a little something like this."},{"startTime":9.63,"endTime":14.379,"body":"What metrics might you look at"},{"startTime":9.63,"endTime":14.379,"body":"to know whether  a quote Agile"},{"startTime":14.379,"endTime":16.873,"body":"team is operating effectively."},{"startTime":17.023,"endTime":17.923,"body":"Yes, a great question."},{"startTime":17.923,"endTime":20.703,"body":"I think it applies to not just"},{"startTime":17.923,"endTime":20.703,"body":"product, but you know, even as"},{"startTime":20.703,"endTime":22.013,"body":"a coaches or a scrum masters."},{"startTime":22.023,"endTime":26.433,"body":"What metrics do you use to gauge how"},{"startTime":22.023,"endTime":26.433,"body":"your teams are being effective or not?"},{"startTime":26.553,"endTime":26.773,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":26.773,"endTime":27.173,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":27.173,"endTime":27.573,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":27.573,"endTime":27.943,"body":"Terrific."},{"startTime":27.973,"endTime":30.613,"body":"You might, you might also expand"},{"startTime":27.973,"endTime":30.613,"body":"this question to say whether your"},{"startTime":30.613,"endTime":31.663,"body":"teams are on the right track."},{"startTime":31.663,"endTime":37.043,"body":"I mean, I almost don't want to use the"},{"startTime":31.663,"endTime":37.043,"body":"term effectiveness in this question,"},{"startTime":37.043,"endTime":40.323,"body":"but really what I mean is like how do"},{"startTime":37.043,"endTime":40.323,"body":"you know your teams are doing well?"},{"startTime":40.323,"endTime":41.163,"body":"Doing the right thing."},{"startTime":41.203,"endTime":43.203,"body":"And yeah, getting better at their craft."},{"startTime":43.353,"endTime":43.683,"body":"Right."},{"startTime":43.913,"endTime":45.773,"body":"We're trying to avoid"},{"startTime":43.913,"endTime":45.773,"body":"the effective word here."},{"startTime":45.943,"endTime":50.263,"body":"a lot of times people fall down the trap"},{"startTime":45.943,"endTime":50.263,"body":"of efficiencies of effectiveness and then"},{"startTime":50.263,"endTime":53.873,"body":"that's a slippery slope, which we're not"},{"startTime":50.263,"endTime":53.873,"body":"going to go down in this podcast, folks."},{"startTime":53.923,"endTime":55.803,"body":"So there's a lot of bad habits."},{"startTime":55.903,"endTime":58.803,"body":"That's kind of the main reason I"},{"startTime":55.903,"endTime":58.803,"body":"use this question is there's a lot"},{"startTime":58.803,"endTime":62.343,"body":"of bad habits out there and I've"},{"startTime":58.803,"endTime":62.343,"body":"seen a lot of really great agile"},{"startTime":62.343,"endTime":64.423,"body":"coaches, but I've also seen a lot of."},{"startTime":64.643,"endTime":70.933,"body":"Project managers in disguise as either"},{"startTime":64.643,"endTime":70.933,"body":"product people or Scrum agile people what"},{"startTime":70.933,"endTime":75.023,"body":"I don't know what to call it But also also"},{"startTime":70.933,"endTime":75.023,"body":"also double also I've seen a lot of people"},{"startTime":75.023,"endTime":80.483,"body":"that have no experience in product or"},{"startTime":75.023,"endTime":80.483,"body":"team coaching Or even project management"},{"startTime":80.633,"endTime":82.323,"body":"that won the lottery as product managers."},{"startTime":82.323,"endTime":85.228,"body":"Yeah Who, who basically about the"},{"startTime":82.323,"endTime":85.228,"body":"only tool they have is a hammer."},{"startTime":85.378,"endTime":87.658,"body":"So I would like to identify"},{"startTime":85.378,"endTime":87.658,"body":"those people through the funnel."},{"startTime":87.808,"endTime":89.968,"body":"And this question usually it does help."},{"startTime":90.118,"endTime":92.278,"body":"Not always, but a lot"},{"startTime":90.118,"endTime":92.278,"body":"of times it does help."},{"startTime":92.428,"endTime":96.538,"body":"Speaks a lot about a person if they can"},{"startTime":92.428,"endTime":96.538,"body":"differentiate whether all you have is"},{"startTime":96.538,"endTime":100.748,"body":"nails, because you have a hammer, or do"},{"startTime":96.538,"endTime":100.748,"body":"you have other things that you can do?"},{"startTime":100.798,"endTime":101.948,"body":"A little finesse."},{"startTime":101.948,"endTime":102.568,"body":"A little finesse."},{"startTime":102.568,"endTime":102.978,"body":"That's right."},{"startTime":102.978,"endTime":103.288,"body":"Goes a long way."},{"startTime":103.488,"endTime":107.248,"body":"Now that we're through the introduction,"},{"startTime":103.488,"endTime":107.248,"body":"Whoa, like and subscribe everyone"},{"startTime":107.248,"endTime":109.588,"body":"like and subscribe every like"},{"startTime":107.248,"endTime":109.588,"body":"and subscribe helps the podcast."},{"startTime":109.838,"endTime":112.698,"body":"Alright, so let's see, let's"},{"startTime":109.838,"endTime":112.698,"body":"pick the easiest thing."},{"startTime":112.848,"endTime":116.808,"body":"That I would expect to hear what what"},{"startTime":112.848,"endTime":116.808,"body":"you would often do right and yeah Yeah,"},{"startTime":116.958,"endTime":118.388,"body":"I would say maybe 50 percent of the time."},{"startTime":118.388,"endTime":119.638,"body":"People will say velocity"},{"startTime":119.638,"endTime":122.778,"body":"I'll throw this one over to you when"},{"startTime":119.638,"endTime":122.778,"body":"you're an agile coach and a, and you,"},{"startTime":122.808,"endTime":125.998,"body":"and you hear a product person say"},{"startTime":122.808,"endTime":125.998,"body":"Hey, one of the, one of the things"},{"startTime":125.998,"endTime":129.238,"body":"I look at to know if my team is on"},{"startTime":125.998,"endTime":129.238,"body":"track to know if my team is doing"},{"startTime":129.238,"endTime":132.928,"body":"well and forming together and working"},{"startTime":129.238,"endTime":132.928,"body":"together well is I look at velocity."},{"startTime":133.078,"endTime":135.373,"body":"What is the initial thing that"},{"startTime":133.078,"endTime":135.373,"body":"you think when you hear that?"},{"startTime":135.523,"endTime":136.523,"body":"Can I say this on the podcast?"},{"startTime":136.523,"endTime":139.813,"body":"The initial thing that crosses my"},{"startTime":136.523,"endTime":139.813,"body":"mind right off the bat is this person"},{"startTime":139.823,"endTime":144.143,"body":"has nary a clue about what they're"},{"startTime":139.823,"endTime":144.143,"body":"speaking because velocity is one"},{"startTime":144.143,"endTime":149.563,"body":"of those things that is very widely"},{"startTime":144.143,"endTime":149.563,"body":"misunderstood by a lot of people and"},{"startTime":149.613,"endTime":151.783,"body":"to a greater degree even weaponized."},{"startTime":151.933,"endTime":155.823,"body":"I've seen that, where teams are"},{"startTime":151.933,"endTime":155.823,"body":"asked to increase their velocity."},{"startTime":155.973,"endTime":159.033,"body":"And increase it, they"},{"startTime":155.973,"endTime":159.033,"body":"can very easily, right?"},{"startTime":159.183,"endTime":161.053,"body":"Everybody knows how to game the system."},{"startTime":161.293,"endTime":165.333,"body":"You know, just just that every three"},{"startTime":161.293,"endTime":165.333,"body":"point story becomes a five point story and"},{"startTime":165.503,"endTime":167.953,"body":"boom, voila, you have increased velocity."},{"startTime":167.983,"endTime":168.183,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":168.313,"endTime":170.003,"body":"Except you really have nothing."},{"startTime":170.163,"endTime":170.383,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":170.453,"endTime":170.733,"body":"Right."},{"startTime":170.883,"endTime":172.543,"body":"So that's the first"},{"startTime":170.883,"endTime":172.543,"body":"thing that comes to mind."},{"startTime":172.543,"endTime":176.853,"body":"Is why are you counting the number of"},{"startTime":172.543,"endTime":176.853,"body":"steps taken to get from The starting"},{"startTime":176.853,"endTime":180.273,"body":"pistol to the first milestone or you"},{"startTime":176.853,"endTime":180.273,"body":"don't call it right you're running"},{"startTime":180.273,"endTime":183.413,"body":"a marathon here that that doesn't"},{"startTime":180.273,"endTime":183.413,"body":"matter You gotta pace yourself"},{"startTime":183.603,"endTime":186.763,"body":"While you were while you were saying"},{"startTime":183.603,"endTime":186.763,"body":"that I was thinking it would be"},{"startTime":186.773,"endTime":191.483,"body":"acceptable to be watching Velocity  if"},{"startTime":186.773,"endTime":191.483,"body":"you dig a little deeper and say, well,"},{"startTime":191.483,"endTime":192.923,"body":"what about Velocity are you watching?"},{"startTime":192.923,"endTime":195.913,"body":"If they tell you  I just want to"},{"startTime":192.923,"endTime":195.913,"body":"see that it's Pretty stable like"},{"startTime":195.923,"endTime":196.963,"body":"that's kind of what I'm looking for."},{"startTime":196.963,"endTime":200.743,"body":"I'm not I'm not looking for big swings"},{"startTime":196.963,"endTime":200.743,"body":"in either direction or you know over"},{"startTime":200.743,"endTime":202.453,"body":"the past five sprints  two sprints ago."},{"startTime":202.453,"endTime":206.723,"body":"They did like zero and then last sprint"},{"startTime":202.453,"endTime":206.723,"body":"They did 50 and then the next sprint they"},{"startTime":206.723,"endTime":209.553,"body":"did whatever 10 or like just huge swing."},{"startTime":209.753,"endTime":211.823,"body":"Basically, there's no"},{"startTime":209.753,"endTime":211.823,"body":"pattern to your velocity."},{"startTime":211.973,"endTime":214.413,"body":"You know, if if that was their"},{"startTime":211.973,"endTime":214.413,"body":"answer, would you feel better?"},{"startTime":214.623,"endTime":218.433,"body":"Well, I would look at those"},{"startTime":214.623,"endTime":218.433,"body":"kinds of patterns and try to"},{"startTime":218.433,"endTime":219.963,"body":"figure out what happened, right?"},{"startTime":219.993,"endTime":221.083,"body":"You can learn from that."},{"startTime":221.233,"endTime":223.943,"body":"Here's a zero because so for that purpose."},{"startTime":223.943,"endTime":224.703,"body":"Yeah, definitely."},{"startTime":224.733,"endTime":226.423,"body":"Those are just things"},{"startTime":224.733,"endTime":226.423,"body":"that you can look at."},{"startTime":226.703,"endTime":228.913,"body":"The other thing is velocity helps you."},{"startTime":229.063,"endTime":231.083,"body":"Become predictable over time, right?"},{"startTime":231.113,"endTime":233.043,"body":"You can predict the last three sprints."},{"startTime":233.223,"endTime":237.663,"body":"On average, we did 14, let's say,"},{"startTime":233.223,"endTime":237.663,"body":"so it's reasonable to assume, with"},{"startTime":237.733,"endTime":240.823,"body":"everything else being constant, that"},{"startTime":237.733,"endTime":240.823,"body":"we could do around 14, give or take."},{"startTime":240.973,"endTime":245.743,"body":"And if your backlog to release"},{"startTime":240.973,"endTime":245.743,"body":"is 140 points, I'm using"},{"startTime":245.743,"endTime":246.793,"body":"these numbers for a reason."},{"startTime":246.943,"endTime":248.733,"body":"That's going to take you"},{"startTime":246.943,"endTime":248.733,"body":"about 10 sprints, roughly."},{"startTime":249.043,"endTime":251.233,"body":"I mean, you can do those"},{"startTime":249.043,"endTime":251.233,"body":"sorts of calculations."},{"startTime":251.243,"endTime":252.273,"body":"That's fine for that."},{"startTime":252.423,"endTime":255.083,"body":"But it should be used by the"},{"startTime":252.423,"endTime":255.083,"body":"team to kind of make their"},{"startTime":255.083,"endTime":256.983,"body":"predictability better, right?"},{"startTime":257.043,"endTime":261.033,"body":"They should not be any"},{"startTime":257.043,"endTime":261.033,"body":"business of management to go"},{"startTime":261.033,"endTime":263.033,"body":"in and say it was only 14."},{"startTime":263.103,"endTime":264.373,"body":"Now you can do 20."},{"startTime":264.523,"endTime":264.763,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":264.773,"endTime":265.893,"body":"Cause that's what I've seen too."},{"startTime":265.963,"endTime":266.123,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":266.123,"endTime":266.393,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":266.443,"endTime":269.673,"body":"Like in retrospect, we could have broken"},{"startTime":266.443,"endTime":269.673,"body":"up this podcast to be a three hour"},{"startTime":269.693,"endTime":273.903,"body":"extravaganza where we're, where we, we,"},{"startTime":269.693,"endTime":273.903,"body":"we examine each piece of criteria from"},{"startTime":273.943,"endTime":279.313,"body":"the different perspective of the single"},{"startTime":273.943,"endTime":279.313,"body":"team product manager or scrum master."},{"startTime":279.463,"endTime":281.743,"body":"We look at it from either of the,"},{"startTime":279.463,"endTime":281.743,"body":"both of those perspectives and then"},{"startTime":281.743,"endTime":285.003,"body":"we look at it from the multi team"},{"startTime":281.743,"endTime":285.003,"body":"so, cause we could really ask these"},{"startTime":285.003,"endTime":286.343,"body":"questions like of an agile coach."},{"startTime":286.573,"endTime":289.533,"body":"We could really dig in an interview"},{"startTime":286.573,"endTime":289.533,"body":"and really get in depth with these"},{"startTime":289.533,"endTime":292.223,"body":"questions because when I'm hearing,"},{"startTime":289.533,"endTime":292.223,"body":"when I'm hearing you develop this"},{"startTime":292.223,"endTime":295.923,"body":"velocity, you're developing into a"},{"startTime":292.223,"endTime":295.923,"body":"forecast and that would be something"},{"startTime":296.073,"endTime":297.503,"body":"that I would like to know as a product."},{"startTime":297.513,"endTime":299.603,"body":"Like if I'm starting with a new"},{"startTime":297.513,"endTime":299.603,"body":"team as a product manager, I would"},{"startTime":299.603,"endTime":303.263,"body":"like to know is your team already"},{"startTime":299.603,"endTime":303.263,"body":"delivering a stable forecast?"},{"startTime":303.413,"endTime":306.753,"body":"Is your team already"},{"startTime":303.413,"endTime":306.753,"body":"delivering in a stable way?"},{"startTime":306.903,"endTime":310.013,"body":"Predictable way is your team basically is"},{"startTime":306.903,"endTime":310.013,"body":"your team delivering so that the product"},{"startTime":310.013,"endTime":311.623,"body":"manager can give a forecast, right?"},{"startTime":311.883,"endTime":313.763,"body":"You know, is it possible"},{"startTime":311.883,"endTime":313.763,"body":"what I was getting to?"},{"startTime":313.793,"endTime":317.653,"body":"Yeah, I didn't say it as eloquently,"},{"startTime":313.793,"endTime":317.653,"body":"but yes, that's exactly right Yeah, cuz"},{"startTime":317.653,"endTime":319.393,"body":"it does not be able to give a forecast."},{"startTime":319.393,"endTime":322.423,"body":"I mean  every different category that"},{"startTime":319.393,"endTime":322.423,"body":"we're about to weave in and out of like"},{"startTime":322.433,"endTime":326.153,"body":"very quickly some some dark corners"},{"startTime":322.433,"endTime":326.153,"body":"were about to go more quickly than"},{"startTime":326.153,"endTime":329.763,"body":"others through but if someone asked"},{"startTime":326.153,"endTime":329.763,"body":"me this question, Hey, what, what,"},{"startTime":329.773,"endTime":333.243,"body":"what metrics would you look at to"},{"startTime":329.773,"endTime":333.243,"body":"know if your team is kind of on track?"},{"startTime":333.253,"endTime":335.323,"body":"If you got a stable,"},{"startTime":333.253,"endTime":335.323,"body":"mature improving team."},{"startTime":335.473,"endTime":339.293,"body":"I, I was, I, I would, and I pretty"},{"startTime":335.473,"endTime":339.293,"body":"sure I have given this answer"},{"startTime":339.293,"endTime":343.033,"body":"before of Are we delivering valuable"},{"startTime":339.293,"endTime":343.033,"body":"software on a regular cadence?"},{"startTime":343.233,"endTime":345.243,"body":"Like on a, just on a regular cadence."},{"startTime":345.393,"endTime":347.593,"body":"You know, predictable,"},{"startTime":345.393,"endTime":347.593,"body":"regular meaning predictable."},{"startTime":347.893,"endTime":349.663,"body":"So predictably we're delivering software."},{"startTime":349.663,"endTime":352.343,"body":"It doesn't matter if it's like one"},{"startTime":349.663,"endTime":352.343,"body":"feature a month, one feature a week,"},{"startTime":352.343,"endTime":357.603,"body":"whatever you mean, just because every,"},{"startTime":352.343,"endTime":357.603,"body":"every other like, Oh, let me dig into"},{"startTime":357.603,"endTime":360.763,"body":"the metrics or whatever, all that"},{"startTime":357.603,"endTime":360.763,"body":"stuff kind of breaks down when like"},{"startTime":360.973,"endTime":363.883,"body":"users are getting their software,"},{"startTime":360.973,"endTime":363.883,"body":"they know when the next window is."},{"startTime":364.168,"endTime":365.488,"body":"You don't miss the window."},{"startTime":365.638,"endTime":368.438,"body":"You're showing them what they're all the"},{"startTime":365.638,"endTime":368.438,"body":"rest of these numbers kind of fade away."},{"startTime":368.588,"endTime":370.658,"body":"Users don't care about"},{"startTime":368.588,"endTime":370.658,"body":"these things anyway."},{"startTime":370.808,"endTime":374.178,"body":"So why, why fuss over"},{"startTime":370.808,"endTime":374.178,"body":"it ad nauseum, right?"},{"startTime":374.468,"endTime":375.378,"body":"Yeah, I agree with you."},{"startTime":375.528,"endTime":380.078,"body":"As long as you're delivering valuable"},{"startTime":375.528,"endTime":380.078,"body":"software regularly, and the software"},{"startTime":380.078,"endTime":381.748,"body":"is of good quality, you're making it."},{"startTime":381.898,"endTime":386.548,"body":"So, the, when people say velocity, I"},{"startTime":381.898,"endTime":386.548,"body":"will question them a little bit because"},{"startTime":386.648,"endTime":393.098,"body":"I will, I'm digging to things that"},{"startTime":386.648,"endTime":393.098,"body":"actually could be useful, like the"},{"startTime":393.328,"endTime":395.318,"body":"cycle time, lead time, flow metrics."},{"startTime":395.318,"endTime":395.748,"body":"Basically."},{"startTime":395.878,"endTime":396.058,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":396.118,"endTime":400.368,"body":"I try to dig through velocity to see if"},{"startTime":396.118,"endTime":400.368,"body":"they understand that what they're, what"},{"startTime":400.368,"endTime":402.198,"body":"they're trying to get out of velocity."},{"startTime":402.348,"endTime":406.178,"body":"What they're really looking for are"},{"startTime":402.348,"endTime":406.178,"body":"flow metrics to understand at what"},{"startTime":406.178,"endTime":410.708,"body":"stages through the process are they"},{"startTime":406.178,"endTime":410.708,"body":"bottlenecking and that kind of whip"},{"startTime":410.708,"endTime":413.178,"body":"limit to see if they understand"},{"startTime":410.708,"endTime":413.178,"body":"what whip limits are to see if they"},{"startTime":413.178,"endTime":414.958,"body":"understand what basic flow metrics are."},{"startTime":414.968,"endTime":416.518,"body":"And I'll just take cycle"},{"startTime":414.968,"endTime":416.518,"body":"time and lead time."},{"startTime":416.823,"endTime":419.413,"body":"You know, if they understand what"},{"startTime":416.823,"endTime":419.413,"body":"those are and they know to watch them,"},{"startTime":419.413,"endTime":422.813,"body":"to look at them on the reports, to"},{"startTime":419.413,"endTime":422.813,"body":"identify problems, I'm super happy."},{"startTime":422.963,"endTime":426.243,"body":"Yeah, and from a product lens they"},{"startTime":422.963,"endTime":426.243,"body":"don't necessarily have to know all"},{"startTime":426.243,"endTime":428.073,"body":"of the equations, there's only one."},{"startTime":428.353,"endTime":428.373,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":428.373,"endTime":429.443,"body":"Little's law, things like that."},{"startTime":429.453,"endTime":430.473,"body":"They don't have to necessarily know that."},{"startTime":430.473,"endTime":433.483,"body":"They can work, they can partner with"},{"startTime":430.473,"endTime":433.483,"body":"the scrum master or Azure coach."},{"startTime":433.533,"endTime":433.823,"body":"Sure."},{"startTime":433.843,"endTime":434.063,"body":"Right?"},{"startTime":434.093,"endTime":435.323,"body":"But they have to know off it."},{"startTime":435.533,"endTime":435.753,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":436.073,"endTime":439.723,"body":"And more importantly, not get"},{"startTime":436.073,"endTime":439.723,"body":"really down in the weeds with the"},{"startTime":439.723,"endTime":443.093,"body":"velocity number in terms of story"},{"startTime":439.723,"endTime":443.093,"body":"points or anything like that."},{"startTime":443.243,"endTime":443.523,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":443.673,"endTime":443.883,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":444.023,"endTime":448.853,"body":"And I mean, a savvy product person"},{"startTime":444.023,"endTime":448.853,"body":"will know to, to look for  the teams"},{"startTime":448.853,"endTime":454.143,"body":"that have 15 things in progress"},{"startTime":448.853,"endTime":454.143,"body":"and never finish anything in that."},{"startTime":454.323,"endTime":456.153,"body":"I would say I would hope the"},{"startTime":454.323,"endTime":456.153,"body":"product people will be looking"},{"startTime":456.153,"endTime":458.673,"body":"for that because I'm sure that"},{"startTime":456.153,"endTime":458.673,"body":"it sticks out to the leadership."},{"startTime":458.823,"endTime":461.023,"body":"You know, I'm sure it"},{"startTime":458.823,"endTime":461.023,"body":"sticks at the leadership."},{"startTime":461.203,"endTime":462.613,"body":"Yeah, yeah, definitely."},{"startTime":462.763,"endTime":465.193,"body":"Definitely teams that keep"},{"startTime":462.763,"endTime":465.193,"body":"starting and not finishing."},{"startTime":465.383,"endTime":465.683,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":465.833,"endTime":468.993,"body":"Speaking of starting and not"},{"startTime":465.833,"endTime":468.993,"body":"finishing, That was a slick transition."},{"startTime":468.993,"endTime":470.143,"body":"Yeah, terrible, terrible."},{"startTime":470.293,"endTime":476.593,"body":"Here's one that I have not seen a lot"},{"startTime":470.293,"endTime":476.593,"body":"of teams track, but I think is actually"},{"startTime":476.903,"endTime":479.923,"body":"pretty valuable is the say do ratio."},{"startTime":480.073,"endTime":483.023,"body":"Of your, or you could look at it as,"},{"startTime":480.073,"endTime":483.023,"body":"you could look at it, it's a little"},{"startTime":483.023,"endTime":486.393,"body":"bit different, but you could also look"},{"startTime":483.023,"endTime":486.393,"body":"at it, your committed versus delivered"},{"startTime":486.403,"endTime":488.913,"body":"ratio, but basically your say do ratio."},{"startTime":489.063,"endTime":492.323,"body":"I love that metric, by the way,"},{"startTime":489.063,"endTime":492.323,"body":"other say do ratio, I often track it."},{"startTime":492.473,"endTime":495.853,"body":"So it's not just committed story"},{"startTime":492.473,"endTime":495.853,"body":"points or number of stories, etc."},{"startTime":495.883,"endTime":497.013,"body":"It can be other things too."},{"startTime":497.273,"endTime":500.783,"body":"The team commits to put into"},{"startTime":497.273,"endTime":500.783,"body":"practice two improvement items, for"},{"startTime":500.783,"endTime":502.443,"body":"example, right, from a retrospective."},{"startTime":502.593,"endTime":504.233,"body":"And they don't put any into practice."},{"startTime":504.243,"endTime":505.853,"body":"Well, that's not a good say do ratio."},{"startTime":505.883,"endTime":508.093,"body":"So you can apply a say do"},{"startTime":505.883,"endTime":508.093,"body":"ratio to a lot of things."},{"startTime":508.243,"endTime":510.633,"body":"But as a concept, I think it's fantastic."},{"startTime":510.783,"endTime":513.073,"body":"Again, it's just like"},{"startTime":510.783,"endTime":513.073,"body":"most of these measures."},{"startTime":513.073,"endTime":514.763,"body":"Don't get hung up on the numbers, right?"},{"startTime":514.813,"endTime":518.553,"body":"Look at that and use that"},{"startTime":514.813,"endTime":518.553,"body":"as a basis to ask questions."},{"startTime":518.583,"endTime":519.293,"body":"That's what I'm saying."},{"startTime":519.603,"endTime":521.053,"body":"If you don't meet it, you don't meet it."},{"startTime":521.273,"endTime":522.383,"body":"It's not going to suddenly change."},{"startTime":522.423,"endTime":524.603,"body":"Huddle up with your team"},{"startTime":522.423,"endTime":524.603,"body":"and say, Why didn't we?"},{"startTime":524.753,"endTime":525.623,"body":"What got in the way?"},{"startTime":525.773,"endTime":527.223,"body":"And then next time, you do better."},{"startTime":527.373,"endTime":529.353,"body":"How, how how do you track this?"},{"startTime":529.353,"endTime":531.663,"body":"Is it just you just look at what was"},{"startTime":529.353,"endTime":531.663,"body":"committed at the beginning of the"},{"startTime":531.663,"endTime":534.693,"body":"sprint and then what was delivered at"},{"startTime":531.663,"endTime":534.693,"body":"the end, and you just kind of divide?"},{"startTime":534.693,"endTime":537.533,"body":"I think we, yeah, that, that's"},{"startTime":534.693,"endTime":537.533,"body":"the fundamental say do that,"},{"startTime":537.863,"endTime":539.483,"body":"that you and I know, right?"},{"startTime":539.483,"endTime":540.563,"body":"Everyone listening?"},{"startTime":540.563,"endTime":540.623,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":540.683,"endTime":541.703,"body":"That's easy to start with."},{"startTime":541.708,"endTime":542.213,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":542.213,"endTime":542.214,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":542.363,"endTime":545.813,"body":"Just look at the number of X, whatever"},{"startTime":542.363,"endTime":545.813,"body":"it is, story points, number of stories"},{"startTime":545.813,"endTime":549.443,"body":"that you committed to, and at the end of"},{"startTime":545.813,"endTime":549.443,"body":"the sprint, look at what you delivered."},{"startTime":549.593,"endTime":552.153,"body":"Look at the Delta and talk about"},{"startTime":549.593,"endTime":552.153,"body":"it with your team and say, do"},{"startTime":552.153,"endTime":553.433,"body":"we take on too much simply?"},{"startTime":553.623,"endTime":558.143,"body":"Or is it because Joe or Mary had"},{"startTime":553.623,"endTime":558.143,"body":"to take time out during the sprint?"},{"startTime":558.373,"endTime":560.333,"body":"I mean, whatever the reasons"},{"startTime":558.373,"endTime":560.333,"body":"are, talk about them."},{"startTime":560.333,"endTime":563.373,"body":"So that way everyone is at least"},{"startTime":560.333,"endTime":563.373,"body":"on board with what's going on."},{"startTime":563.523,"endTime":565.593,"body":"And then inspect and"},{"startTime":563.523,"endTime":565.593,"body":"adapt from there onwards."},{"startTime":565.593,"endTime":565.833,"body":"Right."},{"startTime":565.983,"endTime":569.873,"body":"The other things that you can look"},{"startTime":565.983,"endTime":569.873,"body":"at for say do are things like how"},{"startTime":569.873,"endTime":572.653,"body":"many times did you effectively."},{"startTime":572.803,"endTime":576.813,"body":"Block interruptions to the team"},{"startTime":572.803,"endTime":576.813,"body":"like leadership coming in saying"},{"startTime":576.963,"endTime":577.833,"body":"stop what you're working on."},{"startTime":577.833,"endTime":579.613,"body":"I need you to work on this, right?"},{"startTime":579.763,"endTime":582.423,"body":"Usually it doesn't happen at the"},{"startTime":579.763,"endTime":582.423,"body":"team level, but it's usually you"},{"startTime":582.423,"endTime":585.743,"body":"know at a team member level a"},{"startTime":582.423,"endTime":585.743,"body":"developer tester or whatever How"},{"startTime":585.743,"endTime":588.753,"body":"many of those did you spot and stop?"},{"startTime":589.073,"endTime":593.593,"body":"Yeah, that's an acronym spot and stop"},{"startTime":589.073,"endTime":593.593,"body":"so during a sprint right look at those"},{"startTime":593.853,"endTime":597.463,"body":"and then and then you don't have to"},{"startTime":593.853,"endTime":597.463,"body":"actually for the say do You don't have"},{"startTime":597.463,"endTime":601.773,"body":"to have Say and do known up front,"},{"startTime":597.463,"endTime":601.773,"body":"meaning you can say for the next"},{"startTime":601.783,"endTime":605.233,"body":"sprint, we're going to target at least"},{"startTime":601.783,"endTime":605.233,"body":"three such interruptions that we're"},{"startTime":605.233,"endTime":606.823,"body":"going to block if you don't get three."},{"startTime":606.823,"endTime":607.283,"body":"That's fine."},{"startTime":607.313,"endTime":610.383,"body":"But if you did get three, did you"},{"startTime":607.313,"endTime":610.383,"body":"block all three as a team again?"},{"startTime":610.393,"endTime":612.363,"body":"I'm not saying it's"},{"startTime":610.393,"endTime":612.363,"body":"someone's job to do that."},{"startTime":612.373,"endTime":615.223,"body":"It's the team's job that"},{"startTime":612.373,"endTime":615.223,"body":"that's a say do ratio, right?"},{"startTime":615.373,"endTime":617.523,"body":"So there are other things like"},{"startTime":615.373,"endTime":617.523,"body":"that that you can come up."},{"startTime":617.673,"endTime":620.583,"body":"Yeah, you probably could think"},{"startTime":617.673,"endTime":620.583,"body":"about the different categories."},{"startTime":620.583,"endTime":620.623,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":620.773,"endTime":621.343,"body":"Of your team."},{"startTime":621.343,"endTime":623.983,"body":"Like one of one of my teams"},{"startTime":621.343,"endTime":623.983,"body":"uses Scrum, for example."},{"startTime":624.133,"endTime":627.263,"body":"But I scrum, all this stuff is kind"},{"startTime":624.133,"endTime":627.263,"body":"of baked in of the fact that you're"},{"startTime":627.263,"endTime":630.453,"body":"gonna meet with customers through your"},{"startTime":627.263,"endTime":630.453,"body":"backlog, refinements through your retros."},{"startTime":630.528,"endTime":634.053,"body":"I, I know in actuality it's a"},{"startTime":630.528,"endTime":634.053,"body":"little , like some people don't, but"},{"startTime":634.213,"endTime":637.063,"body":"I'm, I'm specifically thinking of"},{"startTime":634.213,"endTime":637.063,"body":"a team that uses Kanban that don't."},{"startTime":637.093,"endTime":639.973,"body":"They, they don't have the"},{"startTime":637.093,"endTime":639.973,"body":"events baked into their."},{"startTime":640.123,"endTime":640.663,"body":"for them."},{"startTime":640.973,"endTime":645.903,"body":"So with that team they could have a"},{"startTime":640.973,"endTime":645.903,"body":"category of a say do this as,  we met with"},{"startTime":646.053,"endTime":650.233,"body":"X number of customers or representatives"},{"startTime":646.053,"endTime":650.233,"body":"of the personas of the work that we're"},{"startTime":650.233,"endTime":653.623,"body":"working on or whatever is  some kind"},{"startTime":650.233,"endTime":653.623,"body":"of say do Do ratio that says we're"},{"startTime":653.623,"endTime":658.563,"body":"going to touch all of our personas in"},{"startTime":653.623,"endTime":658.563,"body":"a specific specified period of time"},{"startTime":658.713,"endTime":660.473,"body":"You know, this is this is like stuff."},{"startTime":660.503,"endTime":662.623,"body":"I don't think a lot of"},{"startTime":660.503,"endTime":662.623,"body":"people Think this way."},{"startTime":662.973,"endTime":663.153,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":663.153,"endTime":665.473,"body":"Cause there's two engrossed"},{"startTime":663.153,"endTime":665.473,"body":"with the work of the sprint."},{"startTime":665.483,"endTime":665.703,"body":"Right."},{"startTime":665.723,"endTime":667.933,"body":"I like that number of"},{"startTime":665.723,"endTime":667.933,"body":"touch points, period."},{"startTime":667.973,"endTime":671.273,"body":"Like that's one and then a number of"},{"startTime":667.973,"endTime":671.273,"body":"touch points with, with, or interactions"},{"startTime":671.273,"endTime":675.403,"body":"with a customer, but yeah, number of"},{"startTime":671.273,"endTime":675.403,"body":"interactions with each persona over."},{"startTime":675.553,"endTime":676.433,"body":"Two sprints, three sprints."},{"startTime":676.743,"endTime":677.693,"body":"It's contextual, right?"},{"startTime":677.693,"endTime":679.333,"body":"So you have to tailor it to your context."},{"startTime":679.333,"endTime":680.013,"body":"But I like that."},{"startTime":680.023,"endTime":680.903,"body":"That's also a good one."},{"startTime":681.223,"endTime":685.283,"body":"You, you brought up you either you"},{"startTime":681.223,"endTime":685.283,"body":"brought up or you implied about the say"},{"startTime":685.283,"endTime":687.423,"body":"do ratio in terms of , retrospective."},{"startTime":688.673,"endTime":690.183,"body":"Actions or maybe in my brain."},{"startTime":690.193,"endTime":690.623,"body":"No, I did."},{"startTime":690.623,"endTime":691.273,"body":"I did say that."},{"startTime":691.293,"endTime":694.973,"body":"Okay action items coming out of a"},{"startTime":691.293,"endTime":694.973,"body":"retrospective and then action items"},{"startTime":694.973,"endTime":699.293,"body":"that were basically driven to completion"},{"startTime":694.973,"endTime":699.293,"body":"Somehow that resolved or I don't know"},{"startTime":699.293,"endTime":702.123,"body":"what you call it the improvements that"},{"startTime":699.293,"endTime":702.123,"body":"were made basically that that's sort of"},{"startTime":702.123,"endTime":703.923,"body":"like say do ratio, but it's different."},{"startTime":704.233,"endTime":705.503,"body":"I would definitely track it differently."},{"startTime":705.743,"endTime":707.403,"body":"Well, actually, maybe I"},{"startTime":705.743,"endTime":707.403,"body":"track it in swim lanes."},{"startTime":707.403,"endTime":708.273,"body":"I don't know how to track it."},{"startTime":708.553,"endTime":709.953,"body":"Yeah, there's ways to track it."},{"startTime":710.123,"endTime":713.043,"body":"I've seen a whole range of"},{"startTime":710.123,"endTime":713.043,"body":"different things people do with it."},{"startTime":713.053,"endTime":716.873,"body":"They would create stories, for example,"},{"startTime":713.053,"endTime":716.873,"body":"for these and then assign them zero"},{"startTime":716.873,"endTime":719.403,"body":"story points because they don't want to"},{"startTime":716.873,"endTime":719.403,"body":"mess with the metrics, things like that."},{"startTime":719.413,"endTime":720.053,"body":"People can do that."},{"startTime":720.203,"endTime":722.643,"body":"Before COVID, interestingly,"},{"startTime":720.203,"endTime":722.643,"body":"we would use a flip chart."},{"startTime":722.828,"endTime":726.208,"body":"Attract those is it would just be"},{"startTime":722.828,"endTime":726.208,"body":"visible and then every day we'd"},{"startTime":726.208,"endTime":727.508,"body":"look at that at the stand up."},{"startTime":727.658,"endTime":728.328,"body":"Are we doing this?"},{"startTime":728.358,"endTime":732.098,"body":"We said we would right there's ways"},{"startTime":728.358,"endTime":732.098,"body":"to do this Whether you're hybrid or"},{"startTime":732.148,"endTime":735.908,"body":"you know remote or in person, but"},{"startTime":732.148,"endTime":735.908,"body":"I like some of these these outside"},{"startTime":735.908,"endTime":737.468,"body":"the box type of things, right?"},{"startTime":737.618,"endTime":742.588,"body":"Just around around that same subject"},{"startTime":737.618,"endTime":742.588,"body":"you may decide at the retrospective to"},{"startTime":742.738,"endTime":746.438,"body":"target One, two, or three experiments"},{"startTime":742.738,"endTime":746.438,"body":"you're going to tackle in the next sprint."},{"startTime":746.668,"endTime":747.908,"body":"That's another say do ratio."},{"startTime":748.128,"endTime":749.098,"body":"We said we would do two."},{"startTime":749.108,"endTime":749.758,"body":"That's true, yeah."},{"startTime":749.798,"endTime":750.948,"body":"Do we just not do them?"},{"startTime":751.168,"endTime":751.938,"body":"If so, that's fine."},{"startTime":751.938,"endTime":752.528,"body":"But why?"},{"startTime":752.588,"endTime":753.321,"body":"Yeah, that's a really good one."},{"startTime":753.321,"endTime":756.018,"body":"And that's where the value is,"},{"startTime":753.321,"endTime":756.018,"body":"is having the conversation."},{"startTime":756.068,"endTime":757.278,"body":"Yeah, that's a really good one."},{"startTime":757.278,"endTime":759.998,"body":"I used to do the retro action."},{"startTime":760.018,"endTime":762.328,"body":"I don't like putting it in the backlog."},{"startTime":762.478,"endTime":765.848,"body":"Just because I'm a stickler for like"},{"startTime":762.478,"endTime":765.848,"body":"how I arrange things in the backlog and"},{"startTime":765.848,"endTime":768.788,"body":"I don't like a bunch of tasks sitting"},{"startTime":765.848,"endTime":768.788,"body":"out there and not connected to stuff."},{"startTime":768.938,"endTime":769.538,"body":"But that's just me."},{"startTime":769.538,"endTime":771.008,"body":"That's just me being silly about it."},{"startTime":771.308,"endTime":774.368,"body":"But the, what the team found"},{"startTime":771.308,"endTime":774.368,"body":"was we could all commit to"},{"startTime":774.368,"endTime":776.618,"body":"doing one takeaway from a retro."},{"startTime":776.618,"endTime":778.138,"body":"So we would vote on what the highest."},{"startTime":778.288,"endTime":781.438,"body":"You know, highest value takeaway was,"},{"startTime":778.288,"endTime":781.438,"body":"and we all agreed and we voted on it."},{"startTime":781.688,"endTime":785.138,"body":"And then in, in, in in the ALM tool"},{"startTime":781.688,"endTime":785.138,"body":"we were using at the time could have"},{"startTime":785.138,"endTime":786.048,"body":"been anything, could have been JIRA."},{"startTime":786.898,"endTime":790.548,"body":"In the ALM tool we were using it has"},{"startTime":786.898,"endTime":790.548,"body":"the ability to have the sprint goal"},{"startTime":790.568,"endTime":792.458,"body":"displayed above the active sprint."},{"startTime":792.698,"endTime":795.128,"body":"So we would put the sprint goal and"},{"startTime":792.698,"endTime":795.128,"body":"then we'd have a new line and it"},{"startTime":795.128,"endTime":796.768,"body":"would say retro action this sprint."},{"startTime":797.028,"endTime":799.528,"body":"And so you'd have the sprint goal,"},{"startTime":797.028,"endTime":799.528,"body":"which is the goal for the whole sprint."},{"startTime":799.748,"endTime":803.108,"body":"And then you have the, the retro action"},{"startTime":799.748,"endTime":803.108,"body":"that we committed to for the sprint"},{"startTime":803.288,"endTime":804.298,"body":"and they'd be right there in line."},{"startTime":804.298,"endTime":808.528,"body":"So every, every morning when we're"},{"startTime":804.298,"endTime":808.528,"body":"walking the board, you would start"},{"startTime":808.538,"endTime":811.098,"body":"and you'd see the sprint goal"},{"startTime":808.538,"endTime":811.098,"body":"at the top of the board, right?"},{"startTime":811.098,"endTime":812.688,"body":"With, with the retro action"},{"startTime":811.098,"endTime":812.688,"body":"at the top of the board."},{"startTime":812.748,"endTime":816.068,"body":"I've also been on teams that we had a"},{"startTime":812.748,"endTime":816.068,"body":"card on the board for the retro action."},{"startTime":816.068,"endTime":817.188,"body":"So I've seen it both ways."},{"startTime":817.338,"endTime":820.848,"body":"I kind of prefer it being a banner"},{"startTime":817.338,"endTime":820.848,"body":"level item at the top that does like"},{"startTime":821.038,"endTime":823.988,"body":"it doesn't necessarily have a card or"},{"startTime":821.038,"endTime":823.988,"body":"need a card to be pushed forward now"},{"startTime":824.198,"endTime":828.278,"body":"that team had been together for a couple"},{"startTime":824.198,"endTime":828.278,"body":"years so that right to be fair and clear"},{"startTime":828.278,"endTime":830.838,"body":"about it just visualizing stuff like"},{"startTime":828.278,"endTime":830.838,"body":"that and having them all commit it."},{"startTime":831.178,"endTime":832.858,"body":"Was easy enough for them to do."},{"startTime":833.008,"endTime":835.008,"body":"I've used the hybrid approach there."},{"startTime":835.058,"endTime":837.668,"body":"So with this particular"},{"startTime":835.058,"endTime":837.668,"body":"LM tool, you could."},{"startTime":837.818,"endTime":842.648,"body":"Use any way you want to conduct"},{"startTime":837.818,"endTime":842.648,"body":"your retrospective and the votes."},{"startTime":842.838,"endTime":846.298,"body":"But once the votes have been"},{"startTime":842.838,"endTime":846.298,"body":"cast, I simply gather those"},{"startTime":846.338,"endTime":848.288,"body":"stickies in descending order."},{"startTime":848.288,"endTime":851.878,"body":"So five votes is the top most"},{"startTime":848.288,"endTime":851.878,"body":"and then three and two, etc."},{"startTime":852.028,"endTime":855.498,"body":"And ask the team, how many do we"},{"startTime":852.028,"endTime":855.498,"body":"feel like we can actually implement?"},{"startTime":855.648,"endTime":856.888,"body":"One or two, right?"},{"startTime":856.888,"endTime":858.218,"body":"When they say, well, let's do all three."},{"startTime":858.408,"endTime":859.308,"body":"We've never done that."},{"startTime":859.398,"endTime":860.628,"body":"So let's just start with one."},{"startTime":860.778,"endTime":861.098,"body":"Right."},{"startTime":861.288,"endTime":865.498,"body":"And that one, I screen scrape and"},{"startTime":861.288,"endTime":865.498,"body":"put as an image on a dashboard"},{"startTime":865.528,"endTime":866.468,"body":"on the team's dashboard."},{"startTime":866.478,"endTime":869.588,"body":"So when people are looking at it,"},{"startTime":866.478,"endTime":869.588,"body":"which is every day, it's there up front"},{"startTime":869.588,"endTime":871.098,"body":"and center because I believe in that."},{"startTime":871.098,"endTime":875.948,"body":"I think once it, once you get to this"},{"startTime":871.098,"endTime":875.948,"body":"level and you have a retro and you decide"},{"startTime":875.948,"endTime":880.138,"body":"on an improvement item and then it's just"},{"startTime":875.948,"endTime":880.138,"body":"kind of not visible, you're going to lose."},{"startTime":880.288,"endTime":884.148,"body":"So you need to be able to make it"},{"startTime":880.288,"endTime":884.148,"body":"visible, keep it there and then."},{"startTime":884.298,"endTime":886.238,"body":"Periodically, maybe daily at the stand up."},{"startTime":886.238,"endTime":888.198,"body":"Just say, Hey, look, this"},{"startTime":886.238,"endTime":888.198,"body":"should be doing this."},{"startTime":888.398,"endTime":891.968,"body":"so we talked about retro actions,"},{"startTime":888.398,"endTime":891.968,"body":"whatever you figure out for retros,"},{"startTime":891.988,"endTime":894.328,"body":"you can do the same thing in the"},{"startTime":891.988,"endTime":894.328,"body":"same way, I think, for impediments."},{"startTime":894.668,"endTime":897.328,"body":"Impediment resolutions, yeah,"},{"startTime":894.668,"endTime":897.328,"body":"I mean, that's another, that's"},{"startTime":897.328,"endTime":898.658,"body":"another say do, I guess, right?"},{"startTime":898.658,"endTime":898.868,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":898.958,"endTime":902.008,"body":"You can figure out how many do we"},{"startTime":898.958,"endTime":902.008,"body":"actually encounter, and how many"},{"startTime":902.008,"endTime":903.728,"body":"do we knock, knock away, right?"},{"startTime":903.878,"endTime":904.508,"body":"As a team."},{"startTime":904.518,"endTime":908.798,"body":"So that's the thing is, the team has to"},{"startTime":904.518,"endTime":908.798,"body":"work on this together, as opposed to throw"},{"startTime":908.798,"endTime":911.908,"body":"it over the wall at the scrum master and"},{"startTime":908.798,"endTime":911.908,"body":"go, Hey, scrum master, you're the remover!"},{"startTime":912.058,"endTime":913.698,"body":"No, they're not the human mop."},{"startTime":913.738,"endTime":914.878,"body":"They don't remove impairments."},{"startTime":914.978,"endTime":916.648,"body":"They facilitate removal."},{"startTime":916.678,"endTime":920.156,"body":"That's potentially my favorite"},{"startTime":916.678,"endTime":920.156,"body":"line in the scrum guide."},{"startTime":920.156,"endTime":923.43,"body":"It's just causes the removal"},{"startTime":920.156,"endTime":923.43,"body":"of exactly what it says."},{"startTime":923.43,"endTime":925.395,"body":"Causes the removal of so odd."},{"startTime":925.395,"endTime":928.558,"body":"Why does he just not"},{"startTime":925.395,"endTime":928.558,"body":"cause the incorporation?"},{"startTime":928.908,"endTime":932.978,"body":"I mean, I like the, the rate and"},{"startTime":928.908,"endTime":932.978,"body":"time that it takes for each one."},{"startTime":933.318,"endTime":936.828,"body":"If you can, if you can label"},{"startTime":933.318,"endTime":936.828,"body":"each one appropriately."},{"startTime":936.978,"endTime":939.758,"body":"Now you've got some real"},{"startTime":936.978,"endTime":939.758,"body":"powerful like numbers here."},{"startTime":939.758,"endTime":943.488,"body":"It's like, Oh, when, when we have to"},{"startTime":939.758,"endTime":943.488,"body":"escalate an impediment for another team."},{"startTime":943.638,"endTime":947.168,"body":"It's a matter of hours and days when"},{"startTime":943.638,"endTime":947.168,"body":"we have to, when we have to raise"},{"startTime":947.178,"endTime":949.718,"body":"something that goes to like leadership."},{"startTime":949.988,"endTime":954.088,"body":"Now we're talking weeks and months or"},{"startTime":949.988,"endTime":954.088,"body":"potentially never, or I feel it like"},{"startTime":954.098,"endTime":957.518,"body":"with, if you just track it and throw"},{"startTime":954.098,"endTime":957.518,"body":"labels on it, you'll start to realize."},{"startTime":957.683,"endTime":961.753,"body":"What your most painful avenues"},{"startTime":957.683,"endTime":961.753,"body":"are right patterns will emerge."},{"startTime":961.803,"endTime":962.593,"body":"Absolutely."},{"startTime":962.813,"endTime":965.533,"body":"And that allows you to then pivot"},{"startTime":962.813,"endTime":965.533,"body":"a little bit and say, Hey, look,"},{"startTime":965.553,"endTime":967.363,"body":"we need leadership to act faster."},{"startTime":967.453,"endTime":967.873,"body":"Right?"},{"startTime":967.973,"endTime":971.053,"body":"I mean, it gives you the information"},{"startTime":967.973,"endTime":971.053,"body":"that you need to do that."},{"startTime":971.053,"endTime":973.403,"body":"I don't know if it enables you"},{"startTime":971.053,"endTime":973.403,"body":"to do that because without the"},{"startTime":973.403,"endTime":974.773,"body":"information, you can't do anything."},{"startTime":974.823,"endTime":975.283,"body":"I agree."},{"startTime":975.433,"endTime":976.883,"body":"So that's the first step, right?"},{"startTime":977.033,"endTime":977.543,"body":"I agree."},{"startTime":977.593,"endTime":978.743,"body":"Some roads have roadblocks."},{"startTime":978.743,"endTime":979.833,"body":"Say it was a good one though."},{"startTime":979.873,"endTime":982.893,"body":"I like say do yeah, and you know"},{"startTime":979.873,"endTime":982.893,"body":"what, because teams don't really"},{"startTime":982.893,"endTime":986.563,"body":"have a,  just a graceful way to track"},{"startTime":982.893,"endTime":986.563,"body":"it along with their normal work."},{"startTime":986.713,"endTime":989.083,"body":"A lot of people don't use it like you"},{"startTime":986.713,"endTime":989.083,"body":"would think that should be front and"},{"startTime":989.083,"endTime":992.133,"body":"center in every a LM tool is the, the"},{"startTime":989.083,"endTime":992.133,"body":"amount of stuff that you said you were"},{"startTime":992.133,"endTime":994.533,"body":"gonna do at the start of the sprint"},{"startTime":992.133,"endTime":994.533,"body":"and where you're at on track, they,"},{"startTime":994.563,"endTime":998.373,"body":"they have those numbers, , when you"},{"startTime":994.563,"endTime":998.373,"body":"finish a sprint, you, you, they're gone."},{"startTime":998.433,"endTime":998.913,"body":"Yeah, they're gone."},{"startTime":998.973,"endTime":999.123,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":999.128,"endTime":1000.233,"body":"It doesn't, it doesn't clearly tell you."},{"startTime":1000.283,"endTime":1000.284,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":1000.613,"endTime":1000.853,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":1000.973,"endTime":1004.813,"body":"I think you have to finagle the"},{"startTime":1000.973,"endTime":1004.813,"body":"tool to do that for you in some way."},{"startTime":1004.813,"endTime":1004.873,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":1005.023,"endTime":1008.993,"body":"Let's talk about some, some product"},{"startTime":1005.023,"endTime":1008.993,"body":"management specific metrics that I would"},{"startTime":1008.993,"endTime":1012.833,"body":"like to hear as, as responses to this"},{"startTime":1008.993,"endTime":1012.833,"body":"interview question how about, how about"},{"startTime":1012.893,"endTime":1019.483,"body":"the percentage of my roadmap features"},{"startTime":1012.893,"endTime":1019.483,"body":"With respect to technical enablers or"},{"startTime":1019.633,"endTime":1023.673,"body":"features or things that customers are"},{"startTime":1019.633,"endTime":1023.673,"body":"buying or things that the sales team wants"},{"startTime":1023.673,"endTime":1025.473,"body":"or some kind of labeling on my roadmap."},{"startTime":1025.778,"endTime":1028.638,"body":"to let me know who we're building"},{"startTime":1025.778,"endTime":1028.638,"body":"things for and what, what the reason"},{"startTime":1028.638,"endTime":1031.528,"body":"we're building things basically if,"},{"startTime":1028.638,"endTime":1031.528,"body":"if you're, if you're a product manager"},{"startTime":1031.528,"endTime":1034.108,"body":"and you, and a hundred percent of"},{"startTime":1031.528,"endTime":1034.108,"body":"your roadmap is featured delivery,"},{"startTime":1034.258,"endTime":1035.578,"body":"I'm really worried about you for it."},{"startTime":1035.578,"endTime":1036.278,"body":"Yeah, I agree."},{"startTime":1036.448,"endTime":1039.448,"body":"And this can be simply"},{"startTime":1036.448,"endTime":1039.448,"body":"just using tags, right?"},{"startTime":1039.448,"endTime":1041.568,"body":"It doesn't have to be that complex."},{"startTime":1041.568,"endTime":1041.908,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":1041.908,"endTime":1043.368,"body":"But you need that good mix."},{"startTime":1043.408,"endTime":1044.488,"body":"That's really what you're saying."},{"startTime":1044.498,"endTime":1045.288,"body":"And I agree."},{"startTime":1045.438,"endTime":1048.918,"body":"So oftentimes teams that have,"},{"startTime":1045.438,"endTime":1048.918,"body":"I want to say this a week."},{"startTime":1050.678,"endTime":1051.988,"body":"Are we talking about"},{"startTime":1050.678,"endTime":1051.988,"body":"feature factories here?"},{"startTime":1051.988,"endTime":1055.578,"body":"Is that what you want to say the words,"},{"startTime":1051.988,"endTime":1055.578,"body":"but yeah but you know, some, sometimes"},{"startTime":1055.678,"endTime":1059.368,"body":"you get these product folks on your team"},{"startTime":1055.678,"endTime":1059.368,"body":"that really are only focused on output."},{"startTime":1059.518,"endTime":1061.908,"body":"You're not really going to be"},{"startTime":1059.518,"endTime":1061.908,"body":"successful longterm, right?"},{"startTime":1062.148,"endTime":1064.848,"body":"Because all you're doing is just"},{"startTime":1062.148,"endTime":1064.848,"body":"building, building, building."},{"startTime":1064.848,"endTime":1066.318,"body":"There's no room in there for improvement."},{"startTime":1066.358,"endTime":1068.008,"body":"There's no room in there for enablers."},{"startTime":1068.158,"endTime":1069.708,"body":"There's no space in there."},{"startTime":1069.928,"endTime":1072.588,"body":"It's like a highway"},{"startTime":1069.928,"endTime":1072.588,"body":"that's blocked with cars."},{"startTime":1072.608,"endTime":1075.018,"body":"No, no, it's going anywhere,"},{"startTime":1072.608,"endTime":1075.018,"body":"but you got 12 lanes."},{"startTime":1075.168,"endTime":1076.788,"body":"Block LA folks will"},{"startTime":1075.168,"endTime":1076.788,"body":"understand what I'm saying."},{"startTime":1076.818,"endTime":1077.478,"body":"Block with something."},{"startTime":1077.748,"endTime":1077.928,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":1077.928,"endTime":1078.498,"body":"Block with something."},{"startTime":1078.648,"endTime":1079.128,"body":"So, yeah."},{"startTime":1079.128,"endTime":1080.808,"body":"So I, I agree with you there."},{"startTime":1080.898,"endTime":1082.878,"body":"But that mix is contextual too, right?"},{"startTime":1083.088,"endTime":1086.598,"body":"It depends on your industry, your"},{"startTime":1083.088,"endTime":1086.598,"body":"context, the product that you're building."},{"startTime":1086.928,"endTime":1091.028,"body":"But good product, people will know"},{"startTime":1086.928,"endTime":1091.028,"body":"that and they will look at that,"},{"startTime":1091.238,"endTime":1095.498,"body":"take a stab in the dark and say,"},{"startTime":1091.238,"endTime":1095.498,"body":"let's just save 20% for enablers."},{"startTime":1095.588,"endTime":1099.128,"body":"Mm-Hmm, . And if you find"},{"startTime":1095.588,"endTime":1099.128,"body":"yourself doing more, then save 25."},{"startTime":1099.278,"endTime":1101.078,"body":"If you find yourself"},{"startTime":1099.278,"endTime":1101.078,"body":"doing less, save less."},{"startTime":1101.378,"endTime":1101.558,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":1101.708,"endTime":1103.618,"body":"I mean, if you're not tracking"},{"startTime":1101.708,"endTime":1103.618,"body":"it at all, you don't have those,"},{"startTime":1103.648,"endTime":1104.398,"body":"you don't have those percentages."},{"startTime":1104.548,"endTime":1105.158,"body":"Right."},{"startTime":1105.308,"endTime":1106.228,"body":"And that's the worst."},{"startTime":1106.668,"endTime":1109.728,"body":"I mean, surprisingly, a lot of teams"},{"startTime":1106.668,"endTime":1109.728,"body":"have no idea how much, like how"},{"startTime":1109.728,"endTime":1113.598,"body":"much of your capacity you say do"},{"startTime":1109.728,"endTime":1113.598,"body":"you have to be full up every sprint?"},{"startTime":1113.748,"endTime":1117.128,"body":"To the top of your capacity, you know"},{"startTime":1113.748,"endTime":1117.128,"body":"what I mean, like we didn't, I'm not"},{"startTime":1117.298,"endTime":1121.238,"body":"like, you know what's not even on the"},{"startTime":1117.298,"endTime":1121.238,"body":"list is anything about utilization"},{"startTime":1121.248,"endTime":1123.908,"body":"or any nonsense numbers like that,"},{"startTime":1121.248,"endTime":1123.908,"body":"because I would just kick somebody"},{"startTime":1123.908,"endTime":1126.988,"body":"out , we're done here, there's really"},{"startTime":1123.908,"endTime":1126.988,"body":"no reason to go on with the interview."},{"startTime":1127.138,"endTime":1128.628,"body":"I'm not talking about ludicrous stats."},{"startTime":1128.638,"endTime":1132.728,"body":"I'm talking about usable stats and"},{"startTime":1128.638,"endTime":1132.728,"body":"where you're spending your money Hey,"},{"startTime":1132.748,"endTime":1136.888,"body":"let's go back to the software finance"},{"startTime":1132.748,"endTime":1136.888,"body":"podcast that we just did roadmap folks."},{"startTime":1136.888,"endTime":1137.498,"body":"That's a good one."},{"startTime":1137.598,"endTime":1143.103,"body":"Roadmap feature features like new"},{"startTime":1137.598,"endTime":1143.103,"body":"features versus maintenance versus"},{"startTime":1143.213,"endTime":1146.993,"body":"technical enablers to kind of get you"},{"startTime":1143.213,"endTime":1146.993,"body":"to the future versus like throwaway"},{"startTime":1146.993,"endTime":1148.393,"body":"work that goes nowhere or whatever."},{"startTime":1148.393,"endTime":1149.623,"body":"Versus R\u0026 D work."},{"startTime":1149.763,"endTime":1150.713,"body":"Or exploration."},{"startTime":1150.743,"endTime":1151.603,"body":"Yeah, exactly."},{"startTime":1151.603,"endTime":1152.893,"body":"Yeah, exploration, exactly."},{"startTime":1152.903,"endTime":1157.503,"body":"Like all these things directly"},{"startTime":1152.903,"endTime":1157.503,"body":"go to a line item in finance."},{"startTime":1157.653,"endTime":1160.723,"body":"So, it, on one hand, I understand a lot"},{"startTime":1157.653,"endTime":1160.723,"body":"of people don't even bother with this"},{"startTime":1160.723,"endTime":1162.403,"body":"because it, it's invisible to them."},{"startTime":1162.643,"endTime":1164.633,"body":"Somebody else on some other"},{"startTime":1162.643,"endTime":1164.633,"body":"team takes care of it, but."},{"startTime":1164.783,"endTime":1167.753,"body":"It's very valuable information to"},{"startTime":1164.783,"endTime":1167.753,"body":"know where you're you're tuning that"},{"startTime":1167.753,"endTime":1170.223,"body":"dial of who we're building things for."},{"startTime":1170.283,"endTime":1170.563,"body":"Yep."},{"startTime":1170.773,"endTime":1171.433,"body":"Absolutely."},{"startTime":1171.433,"endTime":1172.213,"body":"Couldn't agree more."},{"startTime":1172.503,"endTime":1176.673,"body":"Everything you do has a a code"},{"startTime":1172.503,"endTime":1176.673,"body":"in the general ledger, right?"},{"startTime":1176.823,"endTime":1179.873,"body":"People just may not be aware of"},{"startTime":1176.823,"endTime":1179.873,"body":"it, but that's absolutely the case."},{"startTime":1179.903,"endTime":1180.923,"body":"Don't worry about that, Om."},{"startTime":1180.933,"endTime":1182.823,"body":"Let the accounts take care of that."},{"startTime":1182.973,"endTime":1185.633,"body":"There's only one colored slip you're"},{"startTime":1182.973,"endTime":1185.633,"body":"going to get from that company."},{"startTime":1185.943,"endTime":1186.223,"body":"Okay?"},{"startTime":1186.223,"endTime":1187.193,"body":"I'm just going to say that."},{"startTime":1187.283,"endTime":1187.823,"body":"Oh, no."},{"startTime":1187.823,"endTime":1190.753,"body":"Oh, that's the The real, I think"},{"startTime":1187.823,"endTime":1190.753,"body":"it's not my favorite color."},{"startTime":1190.753,"endTime":1194.113,"body":"The realist of real talk on,"},{"startTime":1190.753,"endTime":1194.113,"body":"on on the old Agile podcast."},{"startTime":1194.243,"endTime":1195.223,"body":"It's backlog health."},{"startTime":1195.343,"endTime":1197.893,"body":"Backlog Health, and this is another one."},{"startTime":1197.893,"endTime":1200.593,"body":"Again, I was saying weak"},{"startTime":1197.893,"endTime":1200.593,"body":"product ownership leadership."},{"startTime":1200.943,"endTime":1204.063,"body":"This is another one where people"},{"startTime":1200.943,"endTime":1204.063,"body":"say, I've got this backlog and oh,"},{"startTime":1204.123,"endTime":1205.773,"body":"you taught me it should be deep."},{"startTime":1206.103,"endTime":1209.223,"body":"I use the acronym deep right,"},{"startTime":1206.103,"endTime":1209.223,"body":"and look at my back backlog."},{"startTime":1209.223,"endTime":1210.183,"body":"Isn't it wonderful?"},{"startTime":1210.183,"endTime":1211.773,"body":"I've got 300 items on there."},{"startTime":1211.803,"endTime":1213.153,"body":"Yeah, it's very deep."},{"startTime":1213.303,"endTime":1214.263,"body":"Okay, so now."},{"startTime":1214.413,"endTime":1218.003,"body":"I'm going to talk to that person"},{"startTime":1214.413,"endTime":1218.003,"body":"and say, yeah, guess what kale's"},{"startTime":1218.003,"endTime":1220.153,"body":"on sale and so is our tomatoes."},{"startTime":1220.153,"endTime":1223.513,"body":"Go buy like 30 pounds of each"},{"startTime":1220.153,"endTime":1223.513,"body":"and stuff them in your fridge"},{"startTime":1223.513,"endTime":1224.903,"body":"just and then see how you go."},{"startTime":1225.053,"endTime":1227.233,"body":"At some point they will become stale."},{"startTime":1227.233,"endTime":1229.603,"body":"At some point you have"},{"startTime":1227.233,"endTime":1229.603,"body":"to throw them out, right?"},{"startTime":1229.753,"endTime":1231.993,"body":"We're not going to talk about"},{"startTime":1229.753,"endTime":1231.993,"body":"my college days here, but yes,"},{"startTime":1232.013,"endTime":1233.113,"body":"you do have to throw them out."},{"startTime":1233.263,"endTime":1236.393,"body":"So if your backlog is so deep"},{"startTime":1233.263,"endTime":1236.393,"body":"that you haven't looked at stuff"},{"startTime":1236.423,"endTime":1238.313,"body":"in, pick a number, a month?"},{"startTime":1238.463,"endTime":1242.373,"body":"Month and a half, three months,"},{"startTime":1238.463,"endTime":1242.373,"body":"just pick a number, draw a line and"},{"startTime":1242.383,"endTime":1244.093,"body":"burn everything underneath that."},{"startTime":1244.293,"endTime":1244.613,"body":"That's right."},{"startTime":1244.623,"endTime":1245.023,"body":"Burn."},{"startTime":1245.083,"endTime":1246.133,"body":"Don't archive."},{"startTime":1246.453,"endTime":1249.303,"body":"Archiving stuff is like taking"},{"startTime":1246.453,"endTime":1249.303,"body":"it out of the fridge and putting"},{"startTime":1249.303,"endTime":1250.353,"body":"it in a drawer somewhere."},{"startTime":1250.503,"endTime":1251.543,"body":"That's archive to me."},{"startTime":1251.693,"endTime":1254.693,"body":"Like, if it's gonna stink in the fridge,"},{"startTime":1251.693,"endTime":1254.693,"body":"why would you put it in a drawer?"},{"startTime":1254.693,"endTime":1256.583,"body":"You're not, you don't have any use for it."},{"startTime":1256.913,"endTime":1257.543,"body":"Get rid of it."},{"startTime":1257.783,"endTime":1260.813,"body":"It's easy to write a report that goes"},{"startTime":1257.783,"endTime":1260.813,"body":"on to all your different backlogs and"},{"startTime":1260.813,"endTime":1262.163,"body":"just gives you a report of all the."},{"startTime":1262.348,"endTime":1265.638,"body":"Stale things or the aging things"},{"startTime":1262.348,"endTime":1265.638,"body":"over 90 days or whatever, whatever."},{"startTime":1265.638,"endTime":1266.318,"body":"Pick your time frame."},{"startTime":1266.538,"endTime":1267.328,"body":"That's not the problem."},{"startTime":1267.328,"endTime":1269.138,"body":"The problem is people's mentality here."},{"startTime":1269.138,"endTime":1270.368,"body":"They say, well, I don't want to lose it."},{"startTime":1270.378,"endTime":1271.638,"body":"I might need it one day."},{"startTime":1271.678,"endTime":1273.598,"body":"I know it's like, okay,"},{"startTime":1271.678,"endTime":1273.598,"body":"well export it then."},{"startTime":1273.618,"endTime":1275.528,"body":"Well, put it in an Excel"},{"startTime":1273.618,"endTime":1275.528,"body":"spreadsheet and do what you want."},{"startTime":1275.528,"endTime":1276.388,"body":"Well, no, it's still there."},{"startTime":1276.418,"endTime":1279.608,"body":"I mean, if you, if you need it, if you"},{"startTime":1276.418,"endTime":1279.608,"body":"really do need it and you've closed it."},{"startTime":1279.933,"endTime":1281.383,"body":"It's still there with"},{"startTime":1279.933,"endTime":1281.383,"body":"everything you wrote."},{"startTime":1281.403,"endTime":1283.013,"body":"You didn't, you're not"},{"startTime":1281.403,"endTime":1283.013,"body":"losing that's right."},{"startTime":1283.043,"endTime":1283.483,"body":"Anything."},{"startTime":1283.593,"endTime":1285.133,"body":"Yeah, it's just a different state."},{"startTime":1285.133,"endTime":1287.443,"body":"You can go to the graveyard and dig it up."},{"startTime":1287.463,"endTime":1288.283,"body":"Is what I was gonna say."},{"startTime":1288.563,"endTime":1289.313,"body":"It's still gonna smell."},{"startTime":1289.313,"endTime":1290.883,"body":"My friend's gonna smell the same."},{"startTime":1291.033,"endTime":1292.473,"body":"No, you know exactly where it is."},{"startTime":1292.483,"endTime":1292.833,"body":"You bet."},{"startTime":1292.833,"endTime":1293.783,"body":"You're the one that buried it."},{"startTime":1293.803,"endTime":1294.423,"body":"It's dead."},{"startTime":1294.573,"endTime":1296.143,"body":"It's an ex work item."},{"startTime":1296.293,"endTime":1297.543,"body":"I'm not gonna do the parrot sketch."},{"startTime":1297.693,"endTime":1302.423,"body":"No, seriously, a lot of people just"},{"startTime":1297.693,"endTime":1302.423,"body":"have this phobia of losing stuff."},{"startTime":1302.443,"endTime":1304.643,"body":"That's pretty in a spreadsheet, right?"},{"startTime":1304.743,"endTime":1306.213,"body":"Where does that fear come from?"},{"startTime":1306.363,"endTime":1307.233,"body":"Where does that fear come from?"},{"startTime":1307.233,"endTime":1310.453,"body":"I suspect these people were burned"},{"startTime":1307.233,"endTime":1310.453,"body":"by bad management at some point."},{"startTime":1310.503,"endTime":1314.283,"body":"Is this the same mentality that like"},{"startTime":1310.503,"endTime":1314.283,"body":"you go into the house and like stuff"},{"startTime":1314.283,"endTime":1316.523,"body":"is stacked up to the ceiling because"},{"startTime":1314.283,"endTime":1316.523,"body":"they can't get rid of anything?"},{"startTime":1316.523,"endTime":1317.423,"body":"The hoarders."},{"startTime":1317.453,"endTime":1318.093,"body":"Yeah, the hoarders."},{"startTime":1318.093,"endTime":1318.343,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":1318.493,"endTime":1320.963,"body":"Hoarders Product Backlog"},{"startTime":1318.493,"endTime":1320.963,"body":"Edition of Hoarders."},{"startTime":1321.113,"endTime":1324.753,"body":"I, I don't know again, I"},{"startTime":1321.113,"endTime":1324.753,"body":"have aging, stale reports."},{"startTime":1325.063,"endTime":1325.813,"body":"They're automated."},{"startTime":1325.993,"endTime":1326.393,"body":"Sure."},{"startTime":1326.573,"endTime":1328.233,"body":"They don't automatically go close things."},{"startTime":1328.313,"endTime":1330.823,"body":"But they do fire off an alert"},{"startTime":1328.313,"endTime":1330.823,"body":"that says, hey, here are the"},{"startTime":1330.823,"endTime":1331.753,"body":"work items that you have."},{"startTime":1331.953,"endTime":1335.713,"body":"And then whatever, every week or so that"},{"startTime":1331.953,"endTime":1335.713,"body":"they fire every They don't fire every week"},{"startTime":1335.713,"endTime":1337.343,"body":"because I don't have that much old stuff."},{"startTime":1337.623,"endTime":1341.073,"body":"But whenever they do fire, it's a"},{"startTime":1337.623,"endTime":1341.073,"body":"list of here's, here's the greatest"},{"startTime":1341.073,"endTime":1342.313,"body":"hits of the seventies or whatever."},{"startTime":1342.513,"endTime":1344.323,"body":"And I look through it and say, Oh."},{"startTime":1344.473,"endTime":1347.073,"body":"Yeah, I'd like to keep this"},{"startTime":1344.473,"endTime":1347.073,"body":"around another month or so."},{"startTime":1347.213,"endTime":1348.383,"body":"Maybe, maybe I'll get to it."},{"startTime":1348.393,"endTime":1348.933,"body":"Maybe I'll get to it."},{"startTime":1348.933,"endTime":1351.813,"body":"And then a quarter goes by and"},{"startTime":1348.933,"endTime":1351.813,"body":"I'm like, no, I didn't get to it."},{"startTime":1351.903,"endTime":1353.443,"body":"Next time I report runs,"},{"startTime":1351.903,"endTime":1353.443,"body":"I'm like, you know what?"},{"startTime":1353.473,"endTime":1354.603,"body":"I'm just going to close it."},{"startTime":1354.603,"endTime":1355.863,"body":"Yeah, it doesn't have to be binary, right?"},{"startTime":1355.863,"endTime":1357.403,"body":"You can keep some and lose others."},{"startTime":1357.403,"endTime":1358.003,"body":"That's fine."},{"startTime":1358.133,"endTime":1360.423,"body":"I mean, it's a human making"},{"startTime":1358.133,"endTime":1360.423,"body":"decision at some point."},{"startTime":1360.573,"endTime":1362.493,"body":"But don't keep it in the backlog."},{"startTime":1362.553,"endTime":1364.503,"body":"Yeah, I I want to transition us."},{"startTime":1364.503,"endTime":1367.943,"body":"'cause again, we, we've we, I think"},{"startTime":1364.503,"endTime":1367.943,"body":"we've beaten this dead horse, buried"},{"startTime":1367.943,"endTime":1370.923,"body":"it unburied it, and then beaten it"},{"startTime":1367.943,"endTime":1370.923,"body":"again, and then buried it again."},{"startTime":1371.133,"endTime":1371.853,"body":"Lucky horse"},{"startTime":1371.953,"endTime":1373.813,"body":"customer satisfaction."},{"startTime":1373.818,"endTime":1375.658,"body":"Ooh, metrics for customer satisfaction."},{"startTime":1375.978,"endTime":1379.958,"body":"I'm talking about customer satisfaction,"},{"startTime":1375.978,"endTime":1379.958,"body":"I'm talking about, not just, not"},{"startTime":1379.958,"endTime":1383.308,"body":"just like customer surveys and NPS"},{"startTime":1379.958,"endTime":1383.308,"body":"scores and stuff like that, I'm"},{"startTime":1383.308,"endTime":1384.968,"body":"talking Like feature validation."},{"startTime":1385.038,"endTime":1389.528,"body":"I'm talking about it as part of your work"},{"startTime":1385.038,"endTime":1389.528,"body":"process, having a column that comes after"},{"startTime":1389.528,"endTime":1393.558,"body":"the done column that says, I validated"},{"startTime":1389.528,"endTime":1393.558,"body":"that the feature we put out solves the"},{"startTime":1393.558,"endTime":1394.918,"body":"customer's problem and they like it."},{"startTime":1395.068,"endTime":1396.058,"body":"That's what I'm talking about."},{"startTime":1396.088,"endTime":1396.568,"body":"Absolutely."},{"startTime":1396.588,"endTime":1399.068,"body":"This is the flip side of what"},{"startTime":1396.588,"endTime":1399.068,"body":"we were saying earlier, right?"},{"startTime":1399.398,"endTime":1402.098,"body":"Number of touch points a"},{"startTime":1399.398,"endTime":1402.098,"body":"team has with the customers."},{"startTime":1402.098,"endTime":1402.298,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":1402.448,"endTime":1404.268,"body":"This is looking at it from"},{"startTime":1402.448,"endTime":1404.268,"body":"the other side of the mirror."},{"startTime":1404.418,"endTime":1407.568,"body":"Number of Times you meet with a"},{"startTime":1404.418,"endTime":1407.568,"body":"customer to show them what you've got"},{"startTime":1407.588,"endTime":1409.518,"body":"and no, don't wait for your review."},{"startTime":1409.858,"endTime":1411.018,"body":"You don't have to, right?"},{"startTime":1411.078,"endTime":1413.508,"body":"The minute you have something"},{"startTime":1411.078,"endTime":1413.508,"body":"complete, when I say complete,"},{"startTime":1413.508,"endTime":1414.778,"body":"I mean developed and tested."},{"startTime":1414.928,"endTime":1418.588,"body":"By all means, reach out to the customer"},{"startTime":1414.928,"endTime":1418.588,"body":"and say, hey, here's what we've done."},{"startTime":1418.768,"endTime":1419.618,"body":"How do you like this?"},{"startTime":1419.768,"endTime":1423.328,"body":"It's far better to pivot two days, three"},{"startTime":1419.768,"endTime":1423.328,"body":"days into the sprint, or five days into"},{"startTime":1423.328,"endTime":1425.058,"body":"the sprint than waiting to the end of it."},{"startTime":1425.208,"endTime":1427.688,"body":"And then saying, oh, the"},{"startTime":1425.208,"endTime":1427.688,"body":"customer doesn't like this."},{"startTime":1427.868,"endTime":1428.498,"body":"We're going to get to it."},{"startTime":1428.648,"endTime":1430.048,"body":"Next sprint, right?"},{"startTime":1430.158,"endTime":1434.438,"body":"Imagine like four or five days in,"},{"startTime":1430.158,"endTime":1434.438,"body":"you get feedback, good, bad or ugly"},{"startTime":1434.458,"endTime":1438.778,"body":"implement that maybe at the end of that"},{"startTime":1434.458,"endTime":1438.778,"body":"very sprint, you can turn that around."},{"startTime":1438.928,"endTime":1440.748,"body":"So there is that as well."},{"startTime":1440.918,"endTime":1444.458,"body":"But the other you started by saying"},{"startTime":1440.918,"endTime":1444.458,"body":"customer satisfaction, which is kind of"},{"startTime":1444.588,"endTime":1447.798,"body":"almost like a loaded term these days and"},{"startTime":1444.588,"endTime":1447.798,"body":"people come up with all sorts of metrics."},{"startTime":1447.798,"endTime":1449.168,"body":"It's just like it's MVP."},{"startTime":1449.168,"endTime":1449.928,"body":"It means so many things."},{"startTime":1449.928,"endTime":1450.488,"body":"I don't know what that's."},{"startTime":1450.488,"endTime":1451.398,"body":"That's why that's why I try."},{"startTime":1451.678,"endTime":1454.628,"body":"I wanted to start with let's"},{"startTime":1451.678,"endTime":1454.628,"body":"start with just what validation"},{"startTime":1454.628,"endTime":1455.628,"body":"of what we're working on."},{"startTime":1455.638,"endTime":1459.298,"body":"Like, Hey, I'm going to give this to"},{"startTime":1455.638,"endTime":1459.298,"body":"you and ask, is this valuable to you?"},{"startTime":1459.448,"endTime":1462.648,"body":"Customer satisfaction pivots me into"},{"startTime":1459.448,"endTime":1462.648,"body":"my next category, which was going to be"},{"startTime":1462.658,"endTime":1466.488,"body":"value to the customer is the customer"},{"startTime":1462.658,"endTime":1466.488,"body":"actually getting value from our solution?"},{"startTime":1466.498,"endTime":1468.728,"body":"Cause again, product management,"},{"startTime":1466.498,"endTime":1468.728,"body":"like all, all the years I spent"},{"startTime":1468.728,"endTime":1471.218,"body":"in product management, I'm, I'm"},{"startTime":1468.728,"endTime":1471.218,"body":"pretty like, there are some things."},{"startTime":1471.368,"endTime":1473.118,"body":"I try to stay very flexible about."},{"startTime":1473.268,"endTime":1474.948,"body":"I try not to have real"},{"startTime":1473.268,"endTime":1474.948,"body":"strong opinions, right?"},{"startTime":1474.948,"endTime":1477.008,"body":"Or I have strong opinions,"},{"startTime":1474.948,"endTime":1477.008,"body":"but they're very loosely held."},{"startTime":1477.158,"endTime":1479.998,"body":"But one of the things I do have a"},{"startTime":1477.158,"endTime":1479.998,"body":"strong opinion on, like maybe for"},{"startTime":1480.508,"endTime":1484.153,"body":"worse is  customers won't tell you"},{"startTime":1480.508,"endTime":1484.153,"body":", like, I'm not going to use this, or"},{"startTime":1484.153,"endTime":1487.473,"body":"this is not what I need, or this is"},{"startTime":1484.153,"endTime":1487.473,"body":"not valuable, or I don't like this."},{"startTime":1487.633,"endTime":1490.443,"body":"They will nod and say,"},{"startTime":1487.633,"endTime":1490.443,"body":"Oh, it's pretty good."},{"startTime":1490.593,"endTime":1493.263,"body":"And that's all the feedback, and then"},{"startTime":1490.593,"endTime":1493.263,"body":"they quietly will not use it, and they'll"},{"startTime":1493.263,"endTime":1494.183,"body":"go back to whatever they were doing."},{"startTime":1494.203,"endTime":1496.473,"body":"They people are, they want"},{"startTime":1494.203,"endTime":1496.473,"body":"to be nice to strangers."},{"startTime":1496.803,"endTime":1498.983,"body":"They're not going to tell you, this"},{"startTime":1496.803,"endTime":1498.983,"body":"solution is garbage, and here's why."},{"startTime":1499.133,"endTime":1502.233,"body":"You need to have that honest"},{"startTime":1499.133,"endTime":1502.233,"body":"conversation with them, and empower"},{"startTime":1502.233,"endTime":1504.203,"body":"them to say when it's garbage, right?"},{"startTime":1504.403,"endTime":1506.493,"body":"You say, how many times"},{"startTime":1504.403,"endTime":1506.493,"body":"are you going to use this?"},{"startTime":1506.703,"endTime":1508.983,"body":"So, there is, this is actually"},{"startTime":1506.703,"endTime":1508.983,"body":"quite interesting, because"},{"startTime":1509.133,"endTime":1510.123,"body":"they haven't got it yet."},{"startTime":1510.143,"endTime":1513.233,"body":"You're just showing it to them,"},{"startTime":1510.143,"endTime":1513.233,"body":"right, in some, Environment."},{"startTime":1513.463,"endTime":1515.173,"body":"Maybe it's stage or something like that."},{"startTime":1515.413,"endTime":1516.873,"body":"It has their data in it at least."},{"startTime":1517.023,"endTime":1519.953,"body":"So if they say it's good"},{"startTime":1517.023,"endTime":1519.953,"body":"enough, take their word for it."},{"startTime":1519.953,"endTime":1523.673,"body":"But then, later on, down the road,"},{"startTime":1519.953,"endTime":1523.673,"body":"post delivery, post implementation,"},{"startTime":1523.683,"endTime":1525.093,"body":"whatever, it's in prod."},{"startTime":1525.243,"endTime":1527.373,"body":"Well, is your team following through?"},{"startTime":1527.723,"endTime":1529.283,"body":"Especially the product side, right?"},{"startTime":1529.333,"endTime":1534.123,"body":"Are you following through and doing those"},{"startTime":1529.333,"endTime":1534.123,"body":"post delivery telemetry, right, to see?"},{"startTime":1534.273,"endTime":1535.433,"body":"Is anyone using this?"},{"startTime":1535.583,"endTime":1535.923,"body":"Right?"},{"startTime":1536.073,"endTime":1537.743,"body":"How are they using this?"},{"startTime":1537.793,"endTime":1539.033,"body":"Are they having a good experience?"},{"startTime":1539.053,"endTime":1539.793,"body":"A bad experience?"},{"startTime":1539.793,"endTime":1541.053,"body":"How many times are they using it?"},{"startTime":1541.323,"endTime":1544.283,"body":"All of this should be part"},{"startTime":1541.323,"endTime":1544.283,"body":"and parcel of product."},{"startTime":1544.433,"endTime":1545.463,"body":"And the team too."},{"startTime":1545.603,"endTime":1548.013,"body":"Because the product is speaking with"},{"startTime":1545.603,"endTime":1548.013,"body":"the team all the time, hopefully."},{"startTime":1548.013,"endTime":1549.773,"body":"And they can say, look,"},{"startTime":1548.013,"endTime":1549.773,"body":"you know that stuff we did?"},{"startTime":1549.923,"endTime":1551.513,"body":"It didn't quite land, right?"},{"startTime":1551.663,"endTime":1554.333,"body":"If you're not doing that And if"},{"startTime":1551.663,"endTime":1554.333,"body":"you just stop at delivery, which is"},{"startTime":1554.343,"endTime":1557.473,"body":"where a lot of teams stop, they say,"},{"startTime":1554.343,"endTime":1557.473,"body":"well, it's done and it's deployed."},{"startTime":1557.473,"endTime":1558.033,"body":"Okay, done."},{"startTime":1558.083,"endTime":1559.303,"body":"We'll move on to the next one."},{"startTime":1559.453,"endTime":1560.103,"body":"You're missing it."},{"startTime":1560.253,"endTime":1564.823,"body":"that's why I jumped straight into feature"},{"startTime":1560.253,"endTime":1564.823,"body":"validation, basically like a post done"},{"startTime":1564.833,"endTime":1568.763,"body":"step on the team's board that team is"},{"startTime":1564.833,"endTime":1568.763,"body":"responsible for because I think about"},{"startTime":1568.763,"endTime":1572.593,"body":"being This is like, this is later in"},{"startTime":1568.763,"endTime":1572.593,"body":"my career, like I'm, as I kind of come"},{"startTime":1572.593,"endTime":1578.213,"body":"around to, I don't know, being old, like"},{"startTime":1572.593,"endTime":1578.213,"body":"that later in my career, I'm starting to."},{"startTime":1578.363,"endTime":1582.673,"body":"Kind of shift the way that I work"},{"startTime":1578.363,"endTime":1582.673,"body":"where I want to bring sales in."},{"startTime":1582.713,"endTime":1584.453,"body":"I want to bring leadership in."},{"startTime":1584.463,"endTime":1587.173,"body":"I want to make sure that I want to"},{"startTime":1584.463,"endTime":1587.173,"body":"make sure that the, like we were"},{"startTime":1587.173,"endTime":1590.793,"body":"talking about the roadmap before we"},{"startTime":1587.173,"endTime":1590.793,"body":"don't get too far from leaderships,"},{"startTime":1591.063,"endTime":1594.013,"body":"like what their goals are where it's"},{"startTime":1591.063,"endTime":1594.013,"body":"like, Oh, we have our roadmap and"},{"startTime":1594.013,"endTime":1597.353,"body":"then leadership has their roadmap and"},{"startTime":1594.013,"endTime":1597.353,"body":"everyone's got different roadmaps."},{"startTime":1597.353,"endTime":1597.603,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":1597.603,"endTime":1600.063,"body":"Now suddenly we're Airbnb where"},{"startTime":1597.603,"endTime":1600.063,"body":"we all got different roadmaps"},{"startTime":1600.063,"endTime":1601.003,"body":"and like, how did we get this?"},{"startTime":1601.003,"endTime":1603.143,"body":"I had a dream and I went on a"},{"startTime":1601.003,"endTime":1603.143,"body":"hike and how did I get this way?"},{"startTime":1603.263,"endTime":1604.823,"body":"Oh wait, I've been the CEO the whole time."},{"startTime":1605.047,"endTime":1606.987,"body":"Two very boring minutes later"},{"startTime":1607.221,"endTime":1611.161,"body":"You can do this with surveys, you can"},{"startTime":1607.221,"endTime":1611.161,"body":"do this with like, in app, kind of  hey,"},{"startTime":1611.161,"endTime":1612.401,"body":"do you like this feature, kind of stuff."},{"startTime":1612.651,"endTime":1616.761,"body":"In the world of mobile development, you do"},{"startTime":1612.651,"endTime":1616.761,"body":"it in the application, and you try to time"},{"startTime":1616.911,"endTime":1620.331,"body":"When you're going to get a good response,"},{"startTime":1616.911,"endTime":1620.331,"body":"like you don't do it after a crash."},{"startTime":1620.481,"endTime":1623.281,"body":"Yeah, , cause in the, in the, in the"},{"startTime":1620.481,"endTime":1623.281,"body":"mobile development world, you have"},{"startTime":1623.281,"endTime":1626.351,"body":"it a little bit easier because you"},{"startTime":1623.281,"endTime":1626.351,"body":"have the app stores, so generally."},{"startTime":1626.501,"endTime":1630.311,"body":"I mean, there's a lot of trolls in the"},{"startTime":1626.501,"endTime":1630.311,"body":"world, but, but you generally know how"},{"startTime":1630.311,"endTime":1632.341,"body":"people are perceiving your application."},{"startTime":1632.681,"endTime":1634.751,"body":"The B2B applications are"},{"startTime":1632.681,"endTime":1634.751,"body":"a little more difficult."},{"startTime":1634.901,"endTime":1639.141,"body":"You have to kind of bake in the touch"},{"startTime":1634.901,"endTime":1639.141,"body":"points, or you have to be really"},{"startTime":1639.141,"endTime":1642.391,"body":"good about surveys and getting doing"},{"startTime":1639.141,"endTime":1642.391,"body":"that on a regular basis because"},{"startTime":1642.411,"endTime":1643.701,"body":"participation surveys is garbage."},{"startTime":1643.741,"endTime":1646.401,"body":"You have to, you have to use"},{"startTime":1643.741,"endTime":1646.401,"body":"more than one Avenue, I feel"},{"startTime":1646.411,"endTime":1647.661,"body":"like it's just one isn't enough."},{"startTime":1647.811,"endTime":1650.931,"body":"Yeah, the other thing, even with the"},{"startTime":1647.811,"endTime":1650.931,"body":"app stores though when people have the"},{"startTime":1650.931,"endTime":1654.221,"body":"right reviews and provide feedback,"},{"startTime":1650.931,"endTime":1654.221,"body":"things like that, it's a known thing"},{"startTime":1654.221,"endTime":1658.741,"body":"that an unsatisfied, dissatisfied"},{"startTime":1654.221,"endTime":1658.741,"body":"user is more likely to say something"},{"startTime":1658.881,"endTime":1660.331,"body":"than a satisfied user, right?"},{"startTime":1660.481,"endTime":1663.931,"body":"Somebody did some research on it and said"},{"startTime":1660.481,"endTime":1663.931,"body":"a dissatisfied user is going to go tell"},{"startTime":1664.011,"endTime":1666.801,"body":"upwards to like nine to ten people saying."},{"startTime":1666.951,"endTime":1667.621,"body":"Product sucks."},{"startTime":1667.651,"endTime":1667.881,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":1668.031,"endTime":1670.901,"body":"Satisfied person might not say"},{"startTime":1668.031,"endTime":1670.901,"body":"anything to anyone unless someone"},{"startTime":1671.031,"endTime":1672.311,"body":"mentions the product by name."},{"startTime":1672.561,"endTime":1672.991,"body":"I use it."},{"startTime":1672.991,"endTime":1673.931,"body":"It's pretty good, right?"},{"startTime":1674.091,"endTime":1674.371,"body":"Right."},{"startTime":1674.381,"endTime":1676.661,"body":"So all of this has to"},{"startTime":1674.381,"endTime":1676.661,"body":"be taken into account."},{"startTime":1676.991,"endTime":1679.761,"body":"But if you're not, if your team"},{"startTime":1676.991,"endTime":1679.761,"body":"isn't even aware of all of this"},{"startTime":1679.761,"endTime":1682.821,"body":"stuff, which oftentimes I feature"},{"startTime":1679.761,"endTime":1682.821,"body":"factories are like that, right?"},{"startTime":1682.821,"endTime":1685.846,"body":"They're not aware because they're"},{"startTime":1682.821,"endTime":1685.846,"body":"prized on finishing things only."},{"startTime":1685.996,"endTime":1688.436,"body":"And not actually making sure"},{"startTime":1685.996,"endTime":1688.436,"body":"that the customer is satisfied."},{"startTime":1688.586,"endTime":1689.876,"body":"Well, there's a big difference there."},{"startTime":1689.916,"endTime":1693.426,"body":"Well, this is like the podcast"},{"startTime":1689.916,"endTime":1693.426,"body":"that I would like to have, maybe"},{"startTime":1693.426,"endTime":1694.636,"body":"one day, maybe one day we will."},{"startTime":1694.776,"endTime":1697.916,"body":"The podcast I would like to have"},{"startTime":1694.776,"endTime":1697.916,"body":"about about how I kind of view all"},{"startTime":1697.926,"endTime":1700.366,"body":"the layoffs that I see in our space."},{"startTime":1700.376,"endTime":1704.556,"body":"Specifically that are affecting"},{"startTime":1700.376,"endTime":1704.556,"body":"agile professionals and whatnot."},{"startTime":1704.686,"endTime":1708.496,"body":"That stuff worries me because exactly what"},{"startTime":1704.686,"endTime":1708.496,"body":"we're talking about now is you're, you're"},{"startTime":1708.496,"endTime":1712.806,"body":"in a feature factory and there's little"},{"startTime":1708.496,"endTime":1712.806,"body":"you can do to change the culture, maybe"},{"startTime":1712.806,"endTime":1716.006,"body":"if you had a few of these metrics and you"},{"startTime":1712.806,"endTime":1716.006,"body":"were connecting directly with customers,"},{"startTime":1716.156,"endTime":1719.196,"body":"that would be enough to steer the"},{"startTime":1716.156,"endTime":1719.196,"body":"culture in the direction where they're,"},{"startTime":1719.196,"endTime":1720.556,"body":"they're looking at the right metrics"},{"startTime":1720.856,"endTime":1723.636,"body":"People might be listening to this who,"},{"startTime":1720.856,"endTime":1723.636,"body":"who, who were listening to the podcast"},{"startTime":1723.636,"endTime":1726.196,"body":"for the first time and don't know, all"},{"startTime":1723.636,"endTime":1726.196,"body":"the times I've gone onto a rant about"},{"startTime":1726.196,"endTime":1729.706,"body":"this category, but basically if you've"},{"startTime":1726.196,"endTime":1729.706,"body":"never heard my rant, any of my rants"},{"startTime":1729.706,"endTime":1731.841,"body":"before, First of all, congratulations."},{"startTime":1731.991,"endTime":1733.906,"body":"But, but also, What do you mean?"},{"startTime":1734.056,"endTime":1737.686,"body":"Like you, you have, you have to,"},{"startTime":1734.056,"endTime":1737.686,"body":"a lot of old school organizations"},{"startTime":1737.726,"endTime":1739.546,"body":"view that all of the quote I."},{"startTime":1739.576,"endTime":1740.096,"body":"T."},{"startTime":1740.106,"endTime":1744.326,"body":"workers, product managers included,"},{"startTime":1740.106,"endTime":1744.326,"body":"scrum masters, because they can't tell"},{"startTime":1744.326,"endTime":1746.906,"body":"the difference between a scrum master"},{"startTime":1744.326,"endTime":1746.906,"body":"and a project manager anyway, and all"},{"startTime":1746.906,"endTime":1752.336,"body":"the developers, they view them as a cost"},{"startTime":1746.906,"endTime":1752.336,"body":"center they don't generate any revenue."},{"startTime":1752.526,"endTime":1755.536,"body":"The sales team generates all the"},{"startTime":1752.526,"endTime":1755.536,"body":"revenue because they book all the sales."},{"startTime":1755.726,"endTime":1759.476,"body":"And even, even when customers renew"},{"startTime":1755.726,"endTime":1759.476,"body":"from year to year because of the stellar"},{"startTime":1759.476,"endTime":1763.176,"body":"service, they get from customer support"},{"startTime":1759.476,"endTime":1763.176,"body":"and development teams and new features."},{"startTime":1763.326,"endTime":1766.276,"body":"Still, it goes back to the initial"},{"startTime":1763.326,"endTime":1766.276,"body":"salesperson who sold them their"},{"startTime":1766.276,"endTime":1768.796,"body":"contract, even though they've been"},{"startTime":1766.276,"endTime":1768.796,"body":"gone two years commission and left."},{"startTime":1768.796,"endTime":1771.556,"body":"Just that you're like, we can't fix that."},{"startTime":1771.556,"endTime":1771.901,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":1772.041,"endTime":1774.321,"body":"We can't fix the way the"},{"startTime":1772.041,"endTime":1774.321,"body":"organizations are structured."},{"startTime":1774.321,"endTime":1776.581,"body":"We can't fix org design,"},{"startTime":1774.321,"endTime":1776.581,"body":"because if we could, we'd have"},{"startTime":1776.581,"endTime":1777.471,"body":"a whole different podcast."},{"startTime":1777.601,"endTime":1780.321,"body":"Fixing org design, fixing your bad orgs."},{"startTime":1780.431,"endTime":1784.741,"body":"But what you can do to bridge this"},{"startTime":1780.431,"endTime":1784.741,"body":"gap is show, connect yourself to"},{"startTime":1784.891,"endTime":1788.791,"body":"value for the customer, and overlap"},{"startTime":1784.891,"endTime":1788.791,"body":"that with customer satisfaction."},{"startTime":1788.891,"endTime":1789.371,"body":"Definitely."},{"startTime":1789.371,"endTime":1790.581,"body":"Walk in the customer's shoes."},{"startTime":1790.691,"endTime":1792.251,"body":"It's quite illuminating."},{"startTime":1792.521,"endTime":1795.961,"body":"Just do that one time and see"},{"startTime":1792.521,"endTime":1795.961,"body":"how How much you learn, right?"},{"startTime":1796.111,"endTime":1796.791,"body":"I agree with you."},{"startTime":1796.941,"endTime":1799.101,"body":"So what about the the"},{"startTime":1796.941,"endTime":1799.101,"body":"team effectiveness here?"},{"startTime":1799.141,"endTime":1800.711,"body":"We were just talking about"},{"startTime":1799.141,"endTime":1800.711,"body":"customer satisfaction."},{"startTime":1800.861,"endTime":1804.201,"body":"What, what about, what about"},{"startTime":1800.861,"endTime":1804.201,"body":"a more internal facing metric"},{"startTime":1804.211,"endTime":1805.851,"body":"about your team's satisfaction?"},{"startTime":1805.851,"endTime":1809.381,"body":"Team satisfaction is something"},{"startTime":1805.851,"endTime":1809.381,"body":"that I find is largely disregarded."},{"startTime":1809.531,"endTime":1809.851,"body":"Right?"},{"startTime":1809.911,"endTime":1812.051,"body":"I was going to say, I was going"},{"startTime":1809.911,"endTime":1812.051,"body":"to say, I've been on, I've said"},{"startTime":1812.061,"endTime":1814.581,"body":"this on the podcast before, I've"},{"startTime":1812.061,"endTime":1814.581,"body":"been on exactly one team that has"},{"startTime":1814.581,"endTime":1816.541,"body":"measured this team's satisfaction."},{"startTime":1816.691,"endTime":1817.121,"body":"One team."},{"startTime":1817.271,"endTime":1821.141,"body":"Yeah, because people say, you're"},{"startTime":1817.271,"endTime":1821.141,"body":"here, you're trusted you have skills."},{"startTime":1821.291,"endTime":1822.561,"body":"Go to work, basically."},{"startTime":1822.851,"endTime":1826.481,"body":"And then, when you're done, at the end"},{"startTime":1822.851,"endTime":1826.481,"body":"of the, whatever it is, day, sprint,"},{"startTime":1826.631,"endTime":1828.501,"body":"nobody cares how satisfied you are."},{"startTime":1828.501,"endTime":1829.441,"body":"So you get paid, don't you?"},{"startTime":1829.761,"endTime":1830.171,"body":"That's it."},{"startTime":1830.511,"endTime":1831.331,"body":"Which is terrible."},{"startTime":1831.481,"endTime":1832.141,"body":"It's really bad."},{"startTime":1832.141,"endTime":1836.721,"body":"Because I, I have belief that this"},{"startTime":1832.141,"endTime":1836.721,"body":"actually leads to a lot of team churn."},{"startTime":1836.751,"endTime":1840.401,"body":"This is something that I try to"},{"startTime":1836.751,"endTime":1840.401,"body":"implement in as a practice on"},{"startTime":1840.411,"endTime":1844.031,"body":"the teams I coach, which is team"},{"startTime":1840.411,"endTime":1844.031,"body":"happiness, team effectiveness."},{"startTime":1844.181,"endTime":1848.041,"body":"And, and as soon as you say that they will"},{"startTime":1844.181,"endTime":1848.041,"body":"go, ah, but that's such a fickle subject."},{"startTime":1848.191,"endTime":1849.176,"body":"It doesn't have to be."},{"startTime":1849.326,"endTime":1849.636,"body":"Right."},{"startTime":1849.786,"endTime":1854.546,"body":"I'm a big fan of doing this throughout the"},{"startTime":1849.786,"endTime":1854.546,"body":"sprint as opposed to on a good day only."},{"startTime":1854.806,"endTime":1855.116,"body":"Right."},{"startTime":1855.196,"endTime":1857.106,"body":"If you're doing deployments"},{"startTime":1855.196,"endTime":1857.106,"body":"and the deployments are"},{"startTime":1857.116,"endTime":1858.326,"body":"successful, everyone's happy."},{"startTime":1858.476,"endTime":1861.696,"body":"On the other hand, if they're not so"},{"startTime":1858.476,"endTime":1861.696,"body":"good, right, it falls back on you."},{"startTime":1861.776,"endTime":1862.936,"body":"Oh, people aren't happy."},{"startTime":1862.946,"endTime":1863.126,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":1863.276,"endTime":1865.296,"body":"So there's a reason for that."},{"startTime":1865.386,"endTime":1866.576,"body":"But that's not what you're looking for."},{"startTime":1866.576,"endTime":1870.566,"body":"You're looking for how happy are each"},{"startTime":1866.576,"endTime":1870.566,"body":"of the team members throughout the"},{"startTime":1870.566,"endTime":1874.526,"body":"sprint, which is if you're doing two"},{"startTime":1870.566,"endTime":1874.526,"body":"experience, it's 10 days of the sprint."},{"startTime":1874.676,"endTime":1878.526,"body":"So the easiest thing that I can"},{"startTime":1874.676,"endTime":1878.526,"body":"suggest people, if you're not already"},{"startTime":1878.526,"endTime":1882.326,"body":"doing this or are aware of it, is to"},{"startTime":1878.526,"endTime":1882.326,"body":"implement a happiness calendar, right?"},{"startTime":1882.456,"endTime":1885.726,"body":"The Japanese have done this, they"},{"startTime":1882.456,"endTime":1885.726,"body":"came up with this, just like most"},{"startTime":1885.726,"endTime":1888.506,"body":"of the things they come up with is"},{"startTime":1885.726,"endTime":1888.506,"body":"very useful in our everyday life."},{"startTime":1888.656,"endTime":1890.546,"body":"It's called the Niko Niko calendar."},{"startTime":1890.546,"endTime":1891.166,"body":"Niko Niko."},{"startTime":1891.166,"endTime":1891.816,"body":"Niko Niko."},{"startTime":1891.906,"endTime":1892.986,"body":"N I K O."},{"startTime":1893.136,"endTime":1893.796,"body":"N I K O."},{"startTime":1893.866,"endTime":1894.866,"body":"Niko Niko."},{"startTime":1894.866,"endTime":1897.156,"body":"And effectively it's just a calendar."},{"startTime":1897.306,"endTime":1897.556,"body":"Right."},{"startTime":1897.586,"endTime":1901.286,"body":"You start with marking the"},{"startTime":1897.586,"endTime":1901.286,"body":"day your sprint starts and you"},{"startTime":1901.286,"endTime":1902.926,"body":"mark the day your sprint ends."},{"startTime":1902.986,"endTime":1908.356,"body":"And you have each team member post an"},{"startTime":1902.986,"endTime":1908.356,"body":"emoji on there or emoticon if you want."},{"startTime":1908.506,"endTime":1913.026,"body":"A smiley, straight face, meh, or a frowny."},{"startTime":1913.276,"endTime":1913.756,"body":"That's it."},{"startTime":1913.956,"endTime":1914.956,"body":"Limit to those three."},{"startTime":1915.106,"endTime":1917.036,"body":"Because you don't want those"},{"startTime":1915.106,"endTime":1917.036,"body":"other 50 million emojis."},{"startTime":1917.036,"endTime":1918.386,"body":"I was going to say, look what I pulled up."},{"startTime":1918.536,"endTime":1919.186,"body":"Yeah, perfect."},{"startTime":1919.216,"endTime":1919.566,"body":"Look at that."},{"startTime":1919.586,"endTime":1920.026,"body":"There it is."},{"startTime":1920.186,"endTime":1920.716,"body":"Perfect."},{"startTime":1920.936,"endTime":1921.156,"body":"Yes."},{"startTime":1921.166,"endTime":1925.046,"body":"Again, this is not necessarily a great"},{"startTime":1921.166,"endTime":1925.046,"body":"example because you don't learn an"},{"startTime":1925.046,"endTime":1928.126,"body":"awful lot from those that are wearing"},{"startTime":1925.046,"endTime":1928.126,"body":"sunglasses versus those that are googly"},{"startTime":1928.126,"endTime":1931.521,"body":"eyed or, Just limit it to three icons."},{"startTime":1931.721,"endTime":1932.691,"body":"That's what I do, right?"},{"startTime":1932.761,"endTime":1934.851,"body":"Smiley, straight, or frowny."},{"startTime":1935.001,"endTime":1938.201,"body":"And during your retro, you"},{"startTime":1935.001,"endTime":1938.201,"body":"can scan this and say, who's"},{"startTime":1938.231,"endTime":1940.121,"body":"always unhappy and why is that?"},{"startTime":1940.121,"endTime":1941.531,"body":"Talk about it."},{"startTime":1941.841,"endTime":1943.441,"body":"Who's always happy and why is that?"},{"startTime":1943.591,"endTime":1947.341,"body":"Why are most people not happy on"},{"startTime":1943.591,"endTime":1947.341,"body":"a Thursday, for example, right?"},{"startTime":1947.341,"endTime":1949.811,"body":"These patterns will emerge"},{"startTime":1947.341,"endTime":1949.811,"body":"and you can deal with those."},{"startTime":1949.861,"endTime":1950.131,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":1950.281,"endTime":1955.191,"body":"Over time you're gonna find More"},{"startTime":1950.281,"endTime":1955.191,"body":"people will do this than even vote"},{"startTime":1955.191,"endTime":1958.471,"body":"on or create stickies for your"},{"startTime":1955.191,"endTime":1958.471,"body":"retro because this is so easy."},{"startTime":1958.621,"endTime":1958.921,"body":"Right."},{"startTime":1958.981,"endTime":1959.771,"body":"It is really easy."},{"startTime":1960.031,"endTime":1963.541,"body":". I was going to ask, I was going to ask,"},{"startTime":1960.031,"endTime":1963.541,"body":"do they make plugins to any ALM tools?"},{"startTime":1963.541,"endTime":1964.241,"body":"I haven't seen that."},{"startTime":1964.391,"endTime":1964.751,"body":"No?"},{"startTime":1964.761,"endTime":1966.361,"body":"What a valuable thing though, right?"},{"startTime":1966.391,"endTime":1967.651,"body":"Do it right there in the ALM tool."},{"startTime":1967.701,"endTime":1970.731,"body":"Yeah, I was going to say that the"},{"startTime":1967.701,"endTime":1970.731,"body":"first time you log in for the day,"},{"startTime":1970.961,"endTime":1974.631,"body":"it just pops up on the bottom of"},{"startTime":1970.961,"endTime":1974.631,"body":"your face and then you click the face"},{"startTime":1974.631,"endTime":1975.571,"body":"and then you're done for the day."},{"startTime":1975.761,"endTime":1976.241,"body":"Perfect."},{"startTime":1976.471,"endTime":1978.071,"body":"And that, because that's it,"},{"startTime":1976.471,"endTime":1978.071,"body":"because that's all you want."},{"startTime":1978.071,"endTime":1979.921,"body":"It's just, you're just taking"},{"startTime":1978.071,"endTime":1979.921,"body":"the temperature once a day."},{"startTime":1980.161,"endTime":1981.541,"body":"Obviously you would want to trigger it."},{"startTime":1981.661,"endTime":1984.391,"body":"If possible, you want to trigger"},{"startTime":1981.661,"endTime":1984.391,"body":"it When they walk into their"},{"startTime":1984.541,"endTime":1987.021,"body":"daily stand up you just take"},{"startTime":1984.541,"endTime":1987.021,"body":"temperature and then you're done."},{"startTime":1987.021,"endTime":1989.961,"body":"But yeah, I, I can't, I, I mean,"},{"startTime":1987.021,"endTime":1989.961,"body":"it doesn't shock me that nobody"},{"startTime":1989.971,"endTime":1993.331,"body":"is developed useful tools for ALM"},{"startTime":1989.971,"endTime":1993.331,"body":"tools, but No money in it, I guess."},{"startTime":1993.331,"endTime":1994.061,"body":"Yeah, I guess."},{"startTime":1994.091,"endTime":1994.471,"body":"I don't know."},{"startTime":1994.621,"endTime":1995.611,"body":"I would pay, you know."},{"startTime":1995.836,"endTime":1999.966,"body":"It's whatever, a dollar per user"},{"startTime":1995.836,"endTime":1999.966,"body":"per whatever month I would too."},{"startTime":1999.996,"endTime":2002.646,"body":"You pay, you pay way more"},{"startTime":1999.996,"endTime":2002.646,"body":"for other garbage features."},{"startTime":2002.646,"endTime":2004.466,"body":"Like like JIRA product discovery."},{"startTime":2004.466,"endTime":2007.108,"body":"I it's terrible."},{"startTime":2007.258,"endTime":2011.208,"body":"the cool thing about tracking team member"},{"startTime":2007.258,"endTime":2011.208,"body":"satisfaction is you start, you can look at"},{"startTime":2011.208,"endTime":2014.718,"body":"it over the last sprint and then the highs"},{"startTime":2011.208,"endTime":2014.718,"body":"and the lows, like if the whole team kind"},{"startTime":2014.718,"endTime":2018.518,"body":"of dips for like a couple of days, you"},{"startTime":2014.718,"endTime":2018.518,"body":"can ask what was happening on this day."},{"startTime":2018.518,"endTime":2021.748,"body":"You can put, you can start putting"},{"startTime":2018.518,"endTime":2021.748,"body":"flags on the top like a, like a, like a"},{"startTime":2021.758,"endTime":2023.308,"body":"milestone on a Gantt chart type of deal."},{"startTime":2023.308,"endTime":2023.478,"body":"Like."},{"startTime":2023.828,"endTime":2027.238,"body":"On this day, we did we were racing"},{"startTime":2023.828,"endTime":2027.238,"body":"to do a deployment that was mandated."},{"startTime":2027.238,"endTime":2030.558,"body":"But on this day, we had a system crash,"},{"startTime":2027.238,"endTime":2030.558,"body":"and it was all hands on deck or whatever."},{"startTime":2030.908,"endTime":2032.178,"body":"Yeah, it would be really cool."},{"startTime":2032.258,"endTime":2035.188,"body":"We as a collaboration tool,"},{"startTime":2032.258,"endTime":2035.188,"body":"you could use Miro, Miro, etc."},{"startTime":2035.338,"endTime":2038.708,"body":"Because ALM tools don't have this built"},{"startTime":2035.338,"endTime":2038.708,"body":"in, but it would be ideal if they did."},{"startTime":2038.758,"endTime":2038.978,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":2039.148,"endTime":2039.528,"body":"Right?"},{"startTime":2039.678,"endTime":2040.428,"body":"And this is fine."},{"startTime":2040.438,"endTime":2041.098,"body":"It's not ideal."},{"startTime":2041.128,"endTime":2041.528,"body":"So what?"},{"startTime":2041.588,"endTime":2041.878,"body":"Right?"},{"startTime":2041.948,"endTime":2043.378,"body":"Everyone can share a Miro board."},{"startTime":2043.478,"endTime":2043.758,"body":"Mm hmm."},{"startTime":2044.073,"endTime":2046.523,"body":"So that's, that's what I"},{"startTime":2044.073,"endTime":2046.523,"body":"tell my scrummasters to do."},{"startTime":2046.823,"endTime":2050.343,"body":"Some do it very well, some kind of"},{"startTime":2046.823,"endTime":2050.343,"body":"just do it because they feel like they"},{"startTime":2050.343,"endTime":2051.583,"body":"have to because others are doing it."},{"startTime":2051.733,"endTime":2053.493,"body":"Nonetheless, it's a very useful thing."},{"startTime":2053.683,"endTime":2056.953,"body":"Last, last word on the Nico Nico"},{"startTime":2053.683,"endTime":2056.953,"body":"is Those of you that are listening"},{"startTime":2057.033,"endTime":2060.353,"body":"are saying that Oh, but you"},{"startTime":2057.033,"endTime":2060.353,"body":"know, I work on a scaled program."},{"startTime":2060.643,"endTime":2061.253,"body":"Guess what?"},{"startTime":2061.253,"endTime":2062.943,"body":"You still have teams."},{"startTime":2062.943,"endTime":2065.313,"body":"You can still do it and"},{"startTime":2062.943,"endTime":2065.313,"body":"you can do it at scale."},{"startTime":2065.313,"endTime":2066.943,"body":"Except here's the other thing you can do."},{"startTime":2067.093,"endTime":2071.663,"body":"Those teams that are dependent upon"},{"startTime":2067.093,"endTime":2071.663,"body":"the work of your team or those that"},{"startTime":2071.883,"endTime":2073.703,"body":"Your team is dependent upon, right?"},{"startTime":2073.853,"endTime":2075.443,"body":"Ask those people to rate your team."},{"startTime":2075.593,"endTime":2076.173,"body":"As a whole."},{"startTime":2076.453,"endTime":2079.683,"body":"This is where you have to be careful,"},{"startTime":2076.453,"endTime":2079.683,"body":"not Fred or Rita or whatever."},{"startTime":2079.683,"endTime":2079.973,"body":"No."},{"startTime":2080.233,"endTime":2081.483,"body":"This is as a team."},{"startTime":2081.493,"endTime":2082.703,"body":"Team A, Team B, Team C."},{"startTime":2082.853,"endTime":2083.933,"body":"And then see how that goes."},{"startTime":2084.083,"endTime":2087.943,"body":"I think that's a cool concept I would"},{"startTime":2084.083,"endTime":2087.943,"body":"think that, that  larger organizations"},{"startTime":2088.233,"endTime":2091.353,"body":"that for example, they treat their"},{"startTime":2088.233,"endTime":2091.353,"body":"agile coaches as a service organization."},{"startTime":2091.353,"endTime":2094.853,"body":"Hey they go to the service organization,"},{"startTime":2091.353,"endTime":2094.853,"body":"say, Hey we think that our agile practices"},{"startTime":2094.853,"endTime":2099.123,"body":"are dipping and we need an agile coach"},{"startTime":2094.853,"endTime":2099.123,"body":"to sit with our teams for six months"},{"startTime":2099.173,"endTime":2100.693,"body":"just to train them back up or whatever."},{"startTime":2100.713,"endTime":2101.843,"body":"I think it would be cool."},{"startTime":2102.183,"endTime":2106.903,"body":"To have an NPS type of score for the coach"},{"startTime":2102.183,"endTime":2106.903,"body":"or for I think it'd be cool to have it"},{"startTime":2106.903,"endTime":2109.983,"body":"for the coach because that coach is like"},{"startTime":2106.903,"endTime":2109.983,"body":"they're doing a service for the team."},{"startTime":2109.983,"endTime":2113.393,"body":"They're performing a service with"},{"startTime":2109.983,"endTime":2113.393,"body":"absolutely, but where I had thought about"},{"startTime":2113.393,"endTime":2117.613,"body":"this is the, we were talking about several"},{"startTime":2113.393,"endTime":2117.613,"body":"teams working together in one program."},{"startTime":2117.763,"endTime":2121.953,"body":"And when you have to interact with"},{"startTime":2117.763,"endTime":2121.953,"body":"another team that the teams each have."},{"startTime":2122.103,"endTime":2125.593,"body":"A net promoter score of like Hey, Hey,"},{"startTime":2122.103,"endTime":2125.593,"body":"how is your interaction with the team?"},{"startTime":2125.593,"endTime":2126.583,"body":"How easy was it?"},{"startTime":2126.853,"endTime":2128.823,"body":"How easy was it to"},{"startTime":2126.853,"endTime":2128.823,"body":"collaborate with the team?"},{"startTime":2128.973,"endTime":2132.533,"body":"How how effective do you think they were"},{"startTime":2128.973,"endTime":2132.533,"body":"at helping you get to your resolution?"},{"startTime":2132.533,"endTime":2133.123,"body":"Your problem?"},{"startTime":2133.373,"endTime":2136.533,"body":"How, how you probably could"},{"startTime":2133.373,"endTime":2136.533,"body":"think of a bunch of questions."},{"startTime":2136.763,"endTime":2139.683,"body":"And then teams would over time"},{"startTime":2136.763,"endTime":2139.683,"body":"end up with net promoter scores."},{"startTime":2139.983,"endTime":2140.523,"body":"That might be cool."},{"startTime":2140.803,"endTime":2143.133,"body":"I've never seen an organization"},{"startTime":2140.803,"endTime":2143.133,"body":"that does it like that."},{"startTime":2143.233,"endTime":2144.453,"body":"It might be interesting."},{"startTime":2144.593,"endTime":2146.003,"body":"I wouldn't do it at a personal level."},{"startTime":2146.003,"endTime":2147.463,"body":"I definitely don't do it at the person."},{"startTime":2147.493,"endTime":2148.483,"body":"I agree with you on that one."},{"startTime":2148.523,"endTime":2148.783,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":2148.933,"endTime":2152.483,"body":"Yeah, yeah, keep it impersonal when"},{"startTime":2148.933,"endTime":2152.483,"body":"you're doing it at that level for sure."},{"startTime":2152.483,"endTime":2155.783,"body":"I mean, Scrum Masters can look at this"},{"startTime":2152.483,"endTime":2155.783,"body":"sort of thing at the team level and say,"},{"startTime":2155.783,"endTime":2160.383,"body":"for example, one person's more or less"},{"startTime":2155.783,"endTime":2160.383,"body":"always kind of frowny or neutral, right?"},{"startTime":2160.433,"endTime":2160.853,"body":"Sure."},{"startTime":2161.003,"endTime":2162.853,"body":"It may not be anything"},{"startTime":2161.003,"endTime":2162.853,"body":"to do with their work."},{"startTime":2162.883,"endTime":2164.893,"body":"Maybe they're having some"},{"startTime":2162.883,"endTime":2164.893,"body":"issues on a personal front."},{"startTime":2165.083,"endTime":2165.293,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":2165.333,"endTime":2165.623,"body":"Right?"},{"startTime":2165.643,"endTime":2168.913,"body":"So, the Scrum Master, when they have"},{"startTime":2165.643,"endTime":2168.913,"body":"their one on ones Could tease that out."},{"startTime":2169.113,"endTime":2171.393,"body":"Maybe they're always late and missing"},{"startTime":2169.113,"endTime":2171.393,"body":"the stand up because they have"},{"startTime":2171.393,"endTime":2172.783,"body":"to drop off their kid to school."},{"startTime":2172.993,"endTime":2173.433,"body":"Right?"},{"startTime":2173.653,"endTime":2175.533,"body":"Okay, it's good to learn that."},{"startTime":2175.793,"endTime":2178.863,"body":"And then give them a break and"},{"startTime":2175.793,"endTime":2178.863,"body":"say, yeah, just put your sticky"},{"startTime":2178.863,"endTime":2180.473,"body":"on the wall first or last."},{"startTime":2180.473,"endTime":2180.983,"body":"Doesn't matter."},{"startTime":2181.133,"endTime":2184.093,"body":"We know to not expect you there"},{"startTime":2181.133,"endTime":2184.093,"body":"as opposed to why isn't she"},{"startTime":2184.093,"endTime":2185.273,"body":"always here or he always here."},{"startTime":2185.323,"endTime":2186.763,"body":"It's such an easy tool to use."},{"startTime":2186.803,"endTime":2187.133,"body":"It's also fun."},{"startTime":2187.473,"endTime":2188.403,"body":"It is really easy."},{"startTime":2188.433,"endTime":2188.983,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":2189.133,"endTime":2189.493,"body":"Alright."},{"startTime":2189.643,"endTime":2190.583,"body":"Right, what have we got left?"},{"startTime":2190.783,"endTime":2192.883,"body":"We have bug leakage, which"},{"startTime":2190.783,"endTime":2192.883,"body":"somehow I've driven around."},{"startTime":2192.883,"endTime":2194.563,"body":"I didn't want to deal with it,"},{"startTime":2192.883,"endTime":2194.563,"body":"that's why we have it left."},{"startTime":2194.713,"endTime":2198.673,"body":"Oh, I know why I drove around this because"},{"startTime":2194.713,"endTime":2198.673,"body":"again, the last time I brought up like"},{"startTime":2198.683,"endTime":2202.023,"body":"bugs at a community event, like everyone"},{"startTime":2198.683,"endTime":2202.023,"body":"looked at me, like I kicked their dog."},{"startTime":2202.263,"endTime":2204.543,"body":"I was like, I was like,"},{"startTime":2202.263,"endTime":2204.543,"body":"just don't have bugs."},{"startTime":2204.543,"endTime":2207.183,"body":"Like that's the easy way to just like,"},{"startTime":2204.543,"endTime":2207.183,"body":"if you have a bug, just deal with it"},{"startTime":2207.183,"endTime":2208.333,"body":"and then you won't have a bug anymore."},{"startTime":2208.513,"endTime":2209.843,"body":"Like, well, what about my velocity?"},{"startTime":2209.843,"endTime":2211.163,"body":"I was like, let it impact your velocity."},{"startTime":2211.173,"endTime":2211.923,"body":"Just tell leadership."},{"startTime":2212.053,"endTime":2216.293,"body":"We're fixing bugs and if they ask you,"},{"startTime":2212.053,"endTime":2216.293,"body":"Brian, why do you have so many bugs?"},{"startTime":2216.323,"endTime":2218.503,"body":"You have to impact your velocity"},{"startTime":2216.323,"endTime":2218.503,"body":"and fix bugs all the time."},{"startTime":2218.683,"endTime":2221.243,"body":"I'll say you should have that"},{"startTime":2218.683,"endTime":2221.243,"body":"conversation with engineering."},{"startTime":2221.283,"endTime":2222.753,"body":"I'll get them and we"},{"startTime":2221.283,"endTime":2222.753,"body":"can all talk about it."},{"startTime":2222.863,"endTime":2223.353,"body":"Exactly."},{"startTime":2223.413,"endTime":2224.683,"body":"But maybe you're whipping them too hard."},{"startTime":2224.833,"endTime":2227.103,"body":"You know, just to produce output, right?"},{"startTime":2227.363,"endTime":2228.953,"body":"So, quality dips as soon as you do that."},{"startTime":2228.963,"endTime":2232.813,"body":"Yeah, but, but again I'm a big advocate"},{"startTime":2228.963,"endTime":2232.813,"body":"for a sustainable pace at my work."},{"startTime":2233.023,"endTime":2234.703,"body":"So, this never becomes a problem."},{"startTime":2234.923,"endTime":2238.133,"body":"So, I don't use this in my work"},{"startTime":2234.923,"endTime":2238.133,"body":"in the last couple of years."},{"startTime":2238.133,"endTime":2239.063,"body":"I've not used this."},{"startTime":2239.213,"endTime":2243.803,"body":"I have been in organizations where"},{"startTime":2239.213,"endTime":2243.803,"body":"this is like a top level metric,"},{"startTime":2243.813,"endTime":2246.803,"body":"like a top five of things that we"},{"startTime":2243.813,"endTime":2246.803,"body":"look at whenever the leadership"},{"startTime":2246.803,"endTime":2248.333,"body":"meets and we kind of analyze things."},{"startTime":2248.403,"endTime":2250.813,"body":"I use this, but I don't use it."},{"startTime":2250.963,"endTime":2254.373,"body":"At the team level, meaning how many bugs"},{"startTime":2250.963,"endTime":2254.373,"body":"the team had in the spring or anything"},{"startTime":2254.373,"endTime":2255.893,"body":"like that's just the nature of the work."},{"startTime":2256.043,"endTime":2260.163,"body":"I use it to track escape"},{"startTime":2256.043,"endTime":2260.163,"body":"defects, which means the customer"},{"startTime":2260.163,"endTime":2261.643,"body":"seeing the impact of your bug."},{"startTime":2261.743,"endTime":2262.003,"body":"Sure."},{"startTime":2262.013,"endTime":2262.323,"body":"Right?"},{"startTime":2262.363,"endTime":2262.483,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":2262.733,"endTime":2265.853,"body":"And again, not for the purpose of"},{"startTime":2262.733,"endTime":2265.853,"body":"saying, well, why did that happen?"},{"startTime":2265.873,"endTime":2267.863,"body":"But the purpose of looking"},{"startTime":2265.873,"endTime":2267.863,"body":"at the root causes."},{"startTime":2267.863,"endTime":2271.343,"body":"We go through the five whys and"},{"startTime":2267.863,"endTime":2271.343,"body":"keep asking why did this happen?"},{"startTime":2271.383,"endTime":2273.933,"body":"Well, it happened because"},{"startTime":2271.383,"endTime":2273.933,"body":"we released too early."},{"startTime":2273.943,"endTime":2275.163,"body":"Why did we release too early?"},{"startTime":2275.313,"endTime":2277.813,"body":"Well, because somebody"},{"startTime":2275.313,"endTime":2277.813,"body":"was really pushing us."},{"startTime":2277.833,"endTime":2278.823,"body":"Why were they pushing you?"},{"startTime":2278.973,"endTime":2282.783,"body":"So, anyway If you can whittle"},{"startTime":2278.973,"endTime":2282.783,"body":"down to a actionable root cause,"},{"startTime":2282.833,"endTime":2284.253,"body":"you can nip that in the bud."},{"startTime":2284.263,"endTime":2286.943,"body":"Maybe it won't happen again,"},{"startTime":2284.263,"endTime":2286.943,"body":"but you have to track it to see."},{"startTime":2287.113,"endTime":2289.673,"body":"Customers aren't going to"},{"startTime":2287.113,"endTime":2289.673,"body":"necessarily tell you, right?"},{"startTime":2289.703,"endTime":2291.803,"body":"They will simply throw the whole"},{"startTime":2289.703,"endTime":2291.803,"body":"thing back at you and say, This"},{"startTime":2291.813,"endTime":2293.123,"body":"release, it doesn't work for us."},{"startTime":2293.323,"endTime":2294.103,"body":"There's a minor bug."},{"startTime":2294.253,"endTime":2296.533,"body":"Something's off on the"},{"startTime":2294.253,"endTime":2296.533,"body":"screen by two pixels."},{"startTime":2296.623,"endTime":2296.963,"body":"Right."},{"startTime":2297.233,"endTime":2297.813,"body":"Okay."},{"startTime":2297.983,"endTime":2299.203,"body":"You might say, well, so what?"},{"startTime":2299.203,"endTime":2299.973,"body":"It's still usable."},{"startTime":2300.123,"endTime":2301.263,"body":"Hey, you're not paying for it."},{"startTime":2301.403,"endTime":2302.293,"body":"They are right."},{"startTime":2302.623,"endTime":2306.053,"body":"So I think it's a valid metric unless"},{"startTime":2302.623,"endTime":2306.053,"body":"you get to the point where your"},{"startTime":2306.053,"endTime":2309.553,"body":"team is so mature that when they"},{"startTime":2306.053,"endTime":2309.553,"body":"look at something like that, they"},{"startTime":2309.553,"endTime":2311.083,"body":"will be able to hopefully spot that."},{"startTime":2311.103,"endTime":2313.703,"body":"There are tools now where you"},{"startTime":2311.103,"endTime":2313.703,"body":"can spot these things if you're"},{"startTime":2314.033,"endTime":2317.523,"body":"using the automation tools and"},{"startTime":2314.033,"endTime":2317.523,"body":"they will refuse to release it."},{"startTime":2317.673,"endTime":2321.553,"body":"Even if it's such a minor thing where the"},{"startTime":2317.673,"endTime":2321.553,"body":"battle isn't with between them and the"},{"startTime":2321.553,"endTime":2326.623,"body":"customer now, the battle is between them"},{"startTime":2321.553,"endTime":2326.623,"body":"and middle management or upper management"},{"startTime":2326.623,"endTime":2328.283,"body":"and say, you're late for this delivery."},{"startTime":2328.283,"endTime":2329.293,"body":"Well, we have to fix this."},{"startTime":2329.443,"endTime":2330.773,"body":"Throw it out there and see if they notice."},{"startTime":2330.813,"endTime":2333.113,"body":"I've seen that too, which"},{"startTime":2330.813,"endTime":2333.113,"body":"is a terrible attitude."},{"startTime":2333.263,"endTime":2333.693,"body":"Yeah, right."},{"startTime":2333.723,"endTime":2336.293,"body":"We put these tools in"},{"startTime":2333.723,"endTime":2336.293,"body":"to catch all this crud."},{"startTime":2336.363,"endTime":2337.543,"body":"And now you're saying, well, just."},{"startTime":2337.763,"endTime":2341.943,"body":"Ignore that because you know, my bonus"},{"startTime":2337.763,"endTime":2341.943,"body":"depends on us making that release."},{"startTime":2342.163,"endTime":2345.083,"body":"I might get someone who used to"},{"startTime":2342.163,"endTime":2345.083,"body":"work for me in a different life on a"},{"startTime":2345.083,"endTime":2346.903,"body":"podcast so we can do QA horror stories."},{"startTime":2347.053,"endTime":2348.043,"body":"It'd be a fun podcast."},{"startTime":2348.083,"endTime":2352.563,"body":"Cause I, I've had this conversation is"},{"startTime":2348.083,"endTime":2352.563,"body":"the, the, the QA person catches a defect"},{"startTime":2352.833,"endTime":2358.583,"body":"in the sprint and the developer, Acts"},{"startTime":2352.833,"endTime":2358.583,"body":"very defensive about the bug being caught."},{"startTime":2358.843,"endTime":2361.573,"body":"And then we have a big blow up about,"},{"startTime":2358.843,"endTime":2361.573,"body":"well, it's, it's not something that"},{"startTime":2361.693,"endTime":2366.213,"body":"was reported from a customer, so we"},{"startTime":2361.693,"endTime":2366.213,"body":"don't know if it's a real scenario."},{"startTime":2366.213,"endTime":2367.613,"body":"So we're just gonna push it out."},{"startTime":2367.613,"endTime":2368.293,"body":"And then , the."},{"startTime":2368.523,"endTime":2371.843,"body":"Product person on the team is kind"},{"startTime":2368.523,"endTime":2371.843,"body":"of browbeat by arbitrary deadlines"},{"startTime":2371.863,"endTime":2373.163,"body":"because they're under the gun as well."},{"startTime":2373.163,"endTime":2374.893,"body":"And it's, it's just not a good one."},{"startTime":2374.893,"endTime":2377.273,"body":"You have a lot of compartmentalization"},{"startTime":2374.893,"endTime":2377.273,"body":"on your team that happens, right?"},{"startTime":2377.273,"endTime":2380.713,"body":"It's like the, it's like the boat"},{"startTime":2377.273,"endTime":2380.713,"body":"where there's a hole on one end and"},{"startTime":2380.713,"endTime":2382.953,"body":"there's a guy just bailing out water."},{"startTime":2383.213,"endTime":2385.103,"body":"And there's two guys at the"},{"startTime":2383.213,"endTime":2385.103,"body":"other end going, Hey, look."},{"startTime":2385.223,"endTime":2386.183,"body":"The hole is on your side."},{"startTime":2386.333,"endTime":2386.823,"body":"You're all set."},{"startTime":2387.033,"endTime":2390.863,"body":"I don't, I don't again, it's like,"},{"startTime":2387.033,"endTime":2390.863,"body":"I, I almost skipped this category"},{"startTime":2390.863,"endTime":2394.913,"body":"because like for, for me like the,"},{"startTime":2390.863,"endTime":2394.913,"body":"the state of the teams that I work"},{"startTime":2394.913,"endTime":2396.313,"body":"with, this is not really a big thing."},{"startTime":2396.323,"endTime":2397.983,"body":"Like we find bugs, we fix the bugs."},{"startTime":2398.203,"endTime":2400.353,"body":"Well, I mean, that's, that's"},{"startTime":2398.203,"endTime":2400.353,"body":"assuming we don't look at the"},{"startTime":2400.353,"endTime":2401.283,"body":"bug together and decide like."},{"startTime":2401.433,"endTime":2401.613,"body":"It."},{"startTime":2401.673,"endTime":2402.573,"body":"This is, it's not worth fix it."},{"startTime":2402.573,"endTime":2403.233,"body":"This is not worth it."},{"startTime":2403.233,"endTime":2404.223,"body":"Like, we don't care about this."},{"startTime":2404.383,"endTime":2406.123,"body":"I will look out for it when it happens."},{"startTime":2406.273,"endTime":2409.483,"body":"Or we'll add a, add a monitor"},{"startTime":2406.273,"endTime":2409.483,"body":"into the log and add it to a"},{"startTime":2409.483,"endTime":2412.193,"body":"dashboard that lets us know when it"},{"startTime":2409.483,"endTime":2412.193,"body":"happens and we'll go deal with it."},{"startTime":2412.193,"endTime":2413.253,"body":"I'm not worried about it."},{"startTime":2413.403,"endTime":2416.583,"body":"Yeah, I think it's worthy of,  putting"},{"startTime":2413.403,"endTime":2416.583,"body":"in some things that you can actually"},{"startTime":2416.593,"endTime":2420.313,"body":"fish out of the logs and put them on a"},{"startTime":2416.593,"endTime":2420.313,"body":"BI type of report or whatever, right?"},{"startTime":2420.373,"endTime":2424.343,"body":"Just to kind of escalate that up"},{"startTime":2420.373,"endTime":2424.343,"body":"or make it visible anyway, I guess."},{"startTime":2424.493,"endTime":2426.943,"body":"And then, that becomes the"},{"startTime":2424.493,"endTime":2426.943,"body":"basis of the conversation."},{"startTime":2427.093,"endTime":2432.603,"body":"Okay so, Two, two categories left"},{"startTime":2427.093,"endTime":2432.603,"body":"one is metrics around training."},{"startTime":2432.753,"endTime":2435.123,"body":"So are, are people getting trained?"},{"startTime":2435.243,"endTime":2438.633,"body":"You know that old training budget that"},{"startTime":2435.243,"endTime":2438.633,"body":"says, oh, we have money for training, but"},{"startTime":2438.633,"endTime":2443.103,"body":"you've gotta go figure out how to spend"},{"startTime":2438.633,"endTime":2443.103,"body":"it and you've gotta go figure out what"},{"startTime":2443.253,"endTime":2447.393,"body":"things you wanna learn and then you've"},{"startTime":2443.253,"endTime":2447.393,"body":"gotta put in this approval and what,"},{"startTime":2447.573,"endTime":2449.883,"body":"like no one ever just gives you money and"},{"startTime":2447.573,"endTime":2449.883,"body":"says like, use this money for training."},{"startTime":2450.033,"endTime":2452.403,"body":"Yeah, you gotta provide"},{"startTime":2450.033,"endTime":2452.403,"body":"justifications and all of that."},{"startTime":2452.553,"endTime":2455.333,"body":"And if you dare not use the"},{"startTime":2452.553,"endTime":2455.333,"body":"money, you won't get it next year."},{"startTime":2455.333,"endTime":2457.333,"body":"So, yeah, absolutely."},{"startTime":2457.483,"endTime":2459.463,"body":"That's an easy one to"},{"startTime":2457.483,"endTime":2459.463,"body":"track, isn't it, really?"},{"startTime":2459.663,"endTime":2462.973,"body":"You know, what type of training,"},{"startTime":2459.663,"endTime":2462.973,"body":"how many, how often, how many hours?"},{"startTime":2462.973,"endTime":2464.863,"body":"I mean, there's so many"},{"startTime":2462.973,"endTime":2464.863,"body":"things you can do there."},{"startTime":2465.013,"endTime":2467.773,"body":"But you don't really see"},{"startTime":2465.013,"endTime":2467.773,"body":"that much around that."},{"startTime":2467.813,"endTime":2470.783,"body":"Well like we I covered this in a"},{"startTime":2467.813,"endTime":2470.783,"body":"different podcast, and we started, we,"},{"startTime":2470.893,"endTime":2475.628,"body":"we did talk about categories of road"},{"startTime":2470.893,"endTime":2475.628,"body":"map items before I consider training"},{"startTime":2475.978,"endTime":2479.748,"body":"part of the road map for my teams."},{"startTime":2479.748,"endTime":2483.348,"body":"Anyway, I've kind of, I've kind of"},{"startTime":2479.748,"endTime":2483.348,"body":"taken ownership as a product manager"},{"startTime":2483.498,"endTime":2488.478,"body":"of training for my teams just because"},{"startTime":2483.498,"endTime":2488.478,"body":"I don't know where else, if we truly"},{"startTime":2488.478,"endTime":2491.108,"body":"are in a distributed, this is probably"},{"startTime":2488.478,"endTime":2491.108,"body":"a good conversation for a different"},{"startTime":2491.138,"endTime":2494.718,"body":"podcast about distributed versus"},{"startTime":2491.138,"endTime":2494.718,"body":"centralized, because if you truly"},{"startTime":2494.718,"endTime":2497.608,"body":"are a distributed model of teams."},{"startTime":2497.758,"endTime":2501.078,"body":"Like the team members like all the"},{"startTime":2497.758,"endTime":2501.078,"body":"developers they roll up to the leads and"},{"startTime":2501.078,"endTime":2505.418,"body":"the leads roll up to something else You"},{"startTime":2501.078,"endTime":2505.418,"body":"know some sort of hiring manager some"},{"startTime":2505.548,"endTime":2509.668,"body":"some short some sort and that person"},{"startTime":2505.548,"endTime":2509.668,"body":"like other models call this like You"},{"startTime":2509.668,"endTime":2511.438,"body":"know chapter leads or whatever whatever."},{"startTime":2511.628,"endTime":2512.038,"body":"Yeah"},{"startTime":2512.188,"endTime":2515.178,"body":"who is responsible in the"},{"startTime":2512.188,"endTime":2515.178,"body":"organization to make sure that."},{"startTime":2515.328,"endTime":2518.238,"body":"All of a particular discipline"},{"startTime":2515.328,"endTime":2518.238,"body":"are learning new things."},{"startTime":2518.388,"endTime":2521.868,"body":"You know, the product managers continue"},{"startTime":2518.388,"endTime":2521.868,"body":"learning and getting new skills."},{"startTime":2521.868,"endTime":2523.218,"body":"It's the same thing for"},{"startTime":2521.868,"endTime":2523.218,"body":"developers and whatnot."},{"startTime":2523.368,"endTime":2526.938,"body":"If you're in a decentralized model where"},{"startTime":2523.368,"endTime":2526.938,"body":"all your people are out on teams, they're"},{"startTime":2526.938,"endTime":2531.818,"body":"not they're not really part of one central"},{"startTime":2526.938,"endTime":2531.818,"body":"place, it's more difficult to distribute"},{"startTime":2531.818,"endTime":2534.948,"body":"training, to make sure everyone's getting"},{"startTime":2531.818,"endTime":2534.948,"body":"all my developers on all the teams are"},{"startTime":2534.948,"endTime":2536.048,"body":"getting the same training or whatever."},{"startTime":2536.388,"endTime":2539.788,"body":"So I sort of have taken"},{"startTime":2536.388,"endTime":2539.788,"body":"this onto my roadmap."},{"startTime":2539.938,"endTime":2542.038,"body":"And baked it into the road map."},{"startTime":2542.188,"endTime":2546.778,"body":"So I have a, we were talking about"},{"startTime":2542.188,"endTime":2546.778,"body":"tags as part of a technical enablers,"},{"startTime":2546.828,"endTime":2548.188,"body":"road map features, stuff like that."},{"startTime":2548.288,"endTime":2550.858,"body":"Training is a category for"},{"startTime":2548.288,"endTime":2550.858,"body":"work items in my road map."},{"startTime":2551.108,"endTime":2553.438,"body":"Because sometimes developers will"},{"startTime":2551.108,"endTime":2553.438,"body":"want to go put their hands on new"},{"startTime":2553.438,"endTime":2555.358,"body":"tools and see if it's applicable."},{"startTime":2555.508,"endTime":2557.888,"body":"And it makes a lot of sense to"},{"startTime":2555.508,"endTime":2557.888,"body":"put that on the training budget."},{"startTime":2557.948,"endTime":2561.998,"body":"Like as far as like where you write"},{"startTime":2557.948,"endTime":2561.998,"body":"off the cost goes, the cost of them"},{"startTime":2562.048,"endTime":2564.058,"body":"trying, quote, cool new things."},{"startTime":2564.208,"endTime":2566.808,"body":"It's going to go on a training"},{"startTime":2564.208,"endTime":2566.808,"body":"budget the, a budget that's"},{"startTime":2566.808,"endTime":2568.308,"body":"going to get expense basically."},{"startTime":2568.458,"endTime":2571.738,"body":"And it's super easy to do if"},{"startTime":2568.458,"endTime":2571.738,"body":"you're putting it on the roadmap."},{"startTime":2571.888,"endTime":2575.778,"body":"You know explore this tool go learn"},{"startTime":2571.888,"endTime":2575.778,"body":"this skill that kind of stuff."},{"startTime":2575.998,"endTime":2579.448,"body":"I understand  this is probably pretty"},{"startTime":2575.998,"endTime":2579.448,"body":"alien to a lot of people well because"},{"startTime":2579.598,"endTime":2583.428,"body":"you know a lot of people are in that"},{"startTime":2579.598,"endTime":2583.428,"body":"In that quagmire of working in a"},{"startTime":2583.428,"endTime":2586.498,"body":"matrix environment or PMO type, right?"},{"startTime":2586.498,"endTime":2590.388,"body":"Where training is something that"},{"startTime":2586.498,"endTime":2590.388,"body":"you have to fight for with PMO."},{"startTime":2590.678,"endTime":2592.148,"body":"And then they'll look for justification."},{"startTime":2592.148,"endTime":2593.918,"body":"Why, why do your developers need this?"},{"startTime":2594.068,"endTime":2596.978,"body":"Developers actually have it a little"},{"startTime":2594.068,"endTime":2596.978,"body":"easier because, to your point, they"},{"startTime":2597.008,"endTime":2599.678,"body":"don't need to learn a new environment,"},{"startTime":2597.008,"endTime":2599.678,"body":"new tool, new this and that."},{"startTime":2599.828,"endTime":2600.728,"body":"It's easier to get."},{"startTime":2600.728,"endTime":2602.588,"body":"But product, for example, right?"},{"startTime":2602.738,"endTime":2605.408,"body":"It's hard to justify that"},{"startTime":2602.738,"endTime":2605.408,"body":"product needs new training in."},{"startTime":2605.558,"endTime":2607.218,"body":"Analytics or whatever, right?"},{"startTime":2607.368,"endTime":2608.588,"body":"That becomes hard to justify."},{"startTime":2608.738,"endTime":2613.048,"body":"And PM, it's hard to justify"},{"startTime":2608.738,"endTime":2613.048,"body":"only because those with the purse"},{"startTime":2613.048,"endTime":2614.728,"body":"strings, they don't understand it."},{"startTime":2615.008,"endTime":2617.148,"body":"They don't understand"},{"startTime":2615.008,"endTime":2617.148,"body":"what this training is for."},{"startTime":2617.298,"endTime":2619.378,"body":"How it helps product, for example, right?"},{"startTime":2619.528,"endTime":2621.508,"body":"Soft skills often fall in this category."},{"startTime":2621.768,"endTime":2621.958,"body":"Right."},{"startTime":2621.958,"endTime":2624.668,"body":"You say, well, we want to train"},{"startTime":2621.958,"endTime":2624.668,"body":"people on emotional intelligence."},{"startTime":2624.668,"endTime":2625.978,"body":"So what's that right now?"},{"startTime":2625.988,"endTime":2626.658,"body":"Facilitation."},{"startTime":2626.668,"endTime":2627.258,"body":"Yeah, exactly."},{"startTime":2627.478,"endTime":2628.168,"body":"That's another one."},{"startTime":2628.258,"endTime":2628.788,"body":"Facilitation."},{"startTime":2628.938,"endTime":2631.578,"body":"So, so that, that is a shame"},{"startTime":2628.938,"endTime":2631.578,"body":"that you have to kind of."},{"startTime":2631.728,"endTime":2634.478,"body":"Explain to people that don't"},{"startTime":2631.728,"endTime":2634.478,"body":"get it to begin with and then"},{"startTime":2634.478,"endTime":2635.558,"body":"that's, I think the challenge"},{"startTime":2635.608,"endTime":2639.288,"body":"in a modern distributed organization"},{"startTime":2635.608,"endTime":2639.288,"body":"again, where we were talking about, like"},{"startTime":2639.308,"endTime":2642.128,"body":"you have hiring managers, but then the"},{"startTime":2639.308,"endTime":2642.128,"body":"team members are on different teams."},{"startTime":2642.278,"endTime":2645.818,"body":"I would think that your, your"},{"startTime":2642.278,"endTime":2645.818,"body":"Leads like your development lead."},{"startTime":2645.828,"endTime":2649.628,"body":"It's like you have like four or five teams"},{"startTime":2645.828,"endTime":2649.628,"body":"and they all share like a one development"},{"startTime":2649.628,"endTime":2651.708,"body":"lead, or maybe they call it an architect."},{"startTime":2651.708,"endTime":2652.738,"body":"I don't know what you"},{"startTime":2651.708,"endTime":2652.738,"body":"would call it, right?"},{"startTime":2652.888,"endTime":2654.408,"body":"Same thing with product managers do this."},{"startTime":2654.438,"endTime":2656.178,"body":"Like there's like a group product"},{"startTime":2654.438,"endTime":2656.178,"body":"manager or something like that."},{"startTime":2656.328,"endTime":2659.738,"body":"I would think that those people"},{"startTime":2656.328,"endTime":2659.738,"body":"could have something that resembles"},{"startTime":2659.738,"endTime":2663.418,"body":"a roadmap or at least a combine board"},{"startTime":2659.738,"endTime":2663.418,"body":"where the swim lanes are their people."},{"startTime":2663.568,"endTime":2665.858,"body":"And it's basically a"},{"startTime":2663.568,"endTime":2665.858,"body":"training kanban board."},{"startTime":2665.948,"endTime":2669.908,"body":"It's a personal development, basically"},{"startTime":2665.948,"endTime":2669.908,"body":"type of board that says, here,"},{"startTime":2669.918,"endTime":2674.048,"body":"here's how I'm trying to develop"},{"startTime":2669.918,"endTime":2674.048,"body":"the people that I'm responsible for."},{"startTime":2674.298,"endTime":2677.608,"body":"Yeah, there's a lot to be said for"},{"startTime":2674.298,"endTime":2677.608,"body":"those guys of information radiators."},{"startTime":2677.628,"endTime":2678.398,"body":"You're right, yeah."},{"startTime":2678.598,"endTime":2681.298,"body":"I like the idea of a training kanban."},{"startTime":2681.358,"endTime":2684.258,"body":"I just, I'm hesitating here a"},{"startTime":2681.358,"endTime":2684.258,"body":"little because if you're gonna"},{"startTime":2684.258,"endTime":2688.058,"body":"put people in their swim lanes and"},{"startTime":2684.258,"endTime":2688.058,"body":"say you're doing these things, you"},{"startTime":2688.058,"endTime":2689.148,"body":"have to have the budget for it."},{"startTime":2689.188,"endTime":2691.558,"body":"You have to get that budget approved,"},{"startTime":2689.188,"endTime":2691.558,"body":"firstly and foremost, right?"},{"startTime":2691.558,"endTime":2696.308,"body":"And then the other side of it, which is"},{"startTime":2691.558,"endTime":2696.308,"body":"Fred or Mary or Joe, when they see 10"},{"startTime":2696.348,"endTime":2700.768,"body":"hours of training in the next month, If"},{"startTime":2696.348,"endTime":2700.768,"body":"they're pressured to deliver something,"},{"startTime":2700.858,"endTime":2702.918,"body":"they're going to, that's the first"},{"startTime":2700.858,"endTime":2702.918,"body":"thing that they're going to neglect."},{"startTime":2703.068,"endTime":2703.458,"body":"Training."},{"startTime":2703.488,"endTime":2705.078,"body":"Because I'm working on stuff."},{"startTime":2705.148,"endTime":2706.508,"body":"The real stuff, they call it."},{"startTime":2706.808,"endTime":2711.148,"body":"Well, this is real because this training"},{"startTime":2706.808,"endTime":2711.148,"body":"that you're getting is directly applicable"},{"startTime":2711.148,"endTime":2713.258,"body":"and is needed for what's coming up next."},{"startTime":2713.408,"endTime":2717.418,"body":"And the time to get that training is now,"},{"startTime":2713.408,"endTime":2717.418,"body":"not when you have that work on your plate."},{"startTime":2717.568,"endTime":2720.628,"body":"So as long as you can align all of"},{"startTime":2717.568,"endTime":2720.628,"body":"those things, it's a great idea."},{"startTime":2720.688,"endTime":2724.728,"body":"Yeah, this is probably a topic that we"},{"startTime":2720.688,"endTime":2724.728,"body":"can put a pin in for another podcast"},{"startTime":2724.728,"endTime":2727.808,"body":"because if everyone's distributed all"},{"startTime":2724.728,"endTime":2727.808,"body":"over the place and you never really"},{"startTime":2727.808,"endTime":2730.688,"body":"have like a central team to go to and"},{"startTime":2727.808,"endTime":2730.688,"body":"say, Hey, this week I want everyone"},{"startTime":2730.688,"endTime":2733.588,"body":"to do whatever you really have to"},{"startTime":2730.688,"endTime":2733.588,"body":"say like, Hey, I want I'm going to"},{"startTime":2733.588,"endTime":2735.438,"body":"make this resource available to you."},{"startTime":2735.588,"endTime":2737.248,"body":"Per person, a, b, c, whatever."},{"startTime":2737.518,"endTime":2741.438,"body":"And,  in the next three months,"},{"startTime":2737.518,"endTime":2741.438,"body":"you get like a general timeframe."},{"startTime":2741.708,"endTime":2743.418,"body":"I'm, I'm, I'm going to make"},{"startTime":2741.708,"endTime":2743.418,"body":"this money available to you."},{"startTime":2743.588,"endTime":2746.258,"body":"Here's a course that I think here's"},{"startTime":2743.588,"endTime":2746.258,"body":"a selection of courses I think you"},{"startTime":2746.258,"endTime":2749.288,"body":"should take depending on the person,"},{"startTime":2746.258,"endTime":2749.288,"body":"like some person, some people might"},{"startTime":2749.288,"endTime":2752.663,"body":"be like, hey, You need to learn how"},{"startTime":2749.288,"endTime":2752.663,"body":"to do some project management stuff."},{"startTime":2752.663,"endTime":2753.353,"body":"Here's a course for you."},{"startTime":2753.523,"endTime":2757.593,"body":"Hey, you need to learn to up your"},{"startTime":2753.523,"endTime":2757.593,"body":"facilitation game or whatever."},{"startTime":2757.593,"endTime":2760.403,"body":"Here's a course for you and"},{"startTime":2757.593,"endTime":2760.403,"body":"kind of lay out some things."},{"startTime":2760.693,"endTime":2763.283,"body":"They know the budget's there and again,"},{"startTime":2760.693,"endTime":2763.283,"body":"this person does their reviews, so like"},{"startTime":2763.283,"endTime":2766.513,"body":"you're leading them towards where They"},{"startTime":2763.283,"endTime":2766.513,"body":"need to shore up some of their weaknesses."},{"startTime":2766.663,"endTime":2768.453,"body":"You're not saying like"},{"startTime":2766.663,"endTime":2768.453,"body":"drop what you're doing."},{"startTime":2768.463,"endTime":2771.843,"body":"You're giving them a time range so that"},{"startTime":2768.463,"endTime":2771.843,"body":"the person has to manage it into their"},{"startTime":2771.993,"endTime":2773.303,"body":"all the day to day work they're doing."},{"startTime":2773.303,"endTime":2778.623,"body":"But, but it's, it's sort of the, the"},{"startTime":2773.303,"endTime":2778.623,"body":"person kind of has to help you, the"},{"startTime":2778.623,"endTime":2780.703,"body":"manager, work it in with their team."},{"startTime":2780.863,"endTime":2781.693,"body":"But it's, but you're right."},{"startTime":2781.693,"endTime":2784.493,"body":"At some point if the schedule is"},{"startTime":2781.693,"endTime":2784.493,"body":"just crushing and everything needs"},{"startTime":2784.493,"endTime":2785.893,"body":"to be done yesterday kind of culture."},{"startTime":2786.043,"endTime":2788.123,"body":"At some point the manager is going"},{"startTime":2786.043,"endTime":2788.123,"body":"to have to come in to the team and"},{"startTime":2788.123,"endTime":2792.493,"body":"be like, Look, I'm taking my dude"},{"startTime":2788.123,"endTime":2792.493,"body":"out for two days because you guys"},{"startTime":2792.733,"endTime":2794.253,"body":"can't seem to get your act together."},{"startTime":2794.303,"endTime":2797.243,"body":"But also what I've seen to what"},{"startTime":2794.303,"endTime":2797.243,"body":"you were saying just now, it's"},{"startTime":2797.243,"endTime":2798.523,"body":"on the person for sure, right?"},{"startTime":2798.673,"endTime":2802.903,"body":"But what I've seen also when this"},{"startTime":2798.673,"endTime":2802.903,"body":"has been tried, at least, is They"},{"startTime":2802.903,"endTime":2805.933,"body":"just don't give any slack to that"},{"startTime":2802.903,"endTime":2805.933,"body":"person to actually get trained."},{"startTime":2805.953,"endTime":2808.773,"body":"So then it's like, well,"},{"startTime":2805.953,"endTime":2808.773,"body":"here's the, the budget's there."},{"startTime":2808.813,"endTime":2810.703,"body":"You can do a course, but you"},{"startTime":2808.813,"endTime":2810.703,"body":"have to do it on the weekends."},{"startTime":2810.703,"endTime":2812.093,"body":"Well, it's like, Hey, I'm out."},{"startTime":2812.193,"endTime":2813.123,"body":"That's a metric too."},{"startTime":2813.273,"endTime":2813.873,"body":"That's a metric."},{"startTime":2814.033,"endTime":2814.683,"body":"That's a great metric."},{"startTime":2814.683,"endTime":2819.843,"body":"We, we quote got the dollars and we got"},{"startTime":2814.683,"endTime":2819.843,"body":"the training budget or, and no one's"},{"startTime":2819.843,"endTime":2821.323,"body":"using it, like that's a metric too."},{"startTime":2821.373,"endTime":2826.723,"body":"The final one and I guarantee you, the"},{"startTime":2821.373,"endTime":2826.723,"body":"one that nobody is using, is tracking"},{"startTime":2827.053,"endTime":2829.683,"body":"meeting duration and effectiveness."},{"startTime":2829.683,"endTime":2831.023,"body":"Meeting effectiveness."},{"startTime":2831.063,"endTime":2834.143,"body":"Oh, Alfonso, if you're listening"},{"startTime":2831.063,"endTime":2834.143,"body":"to this or watching, Get that"},{"startTime":2834.153,"endTime":2835.963,"body":"app ready, because I used it."},{"startTime":2836.003,"endTime":2840.333,"body":"Alfons, a friend of ours, he created an"},{"startTime":2836.003,"endTime":2840.333,"body":"app, mobile app, where you can plug in a"},{"startTime":2840.333,"endTime":2844.133,"body":"ballpark number of dollars per hour, put"},{"startTime":2840.333,"endTime":2844.133,"body":"in how many participants you have in your"},{"startTime":2844.133,"endTime":2848.523,"body":"meeting, and, right, and as people are"},{"startTime":2844.133,"endTime":2848.523,"body":"talking about stuff, and they go off on"},{"startTime":2848.523,"endTime":2850.873,"body":"tangents, you can have stopwatches on it."},{"startTime":2850.883,"endTime":2852.483,"body":"So you can say, well, I'll stop it here."},{"startTime":2852.703,"endTime":2853.783,"body":"They just went off tangent."},{"startTime":2854.023,"endTime":2856.203,"body":"A minute or two later, you come"},{"startTime":2854.023,"endTime":2856.203,"body":"back, bring everybody back and"},{"startTime":2856.203,"endTime":2860.843,"body":"go, Guys, we just wasted 47 people"},{"startTime":2856.203,"endTime":2860.843,"body":"in the room going on a tangent."},{"startTime":2860.993,"endTime":2862.123,"body":"So don't be doing that."},{"startTime":2862.273,"endTime":2862.583,"body":"Right?"},{"startTime":2862.903,"endTime":2866.043,"body":"The other one is to go in and"},{"startTime":2862.903,"endTime":2866.043,"body":"say, There's 47 people we're"},{"startTime":2866.043,"endTime":2867.183,"body":"going to meet for half an hour."},{"startTime":2867.443,"endTime":2870.043,"body":"This is the amount of money we're"},{"startTime":2867.443,"endTime":2870.043,"body":"going to burn in 30 minutes."},{"startTime":2870.353,"endTime":2871.353,"body":"Are we getting value?"},{"startTime":2871.383,"endTime":2873.293,"body":"At least worth that amount of money?"},{"startTime":2873.293,"endTime":2874.383,"body":"This can be a metric."},{"startTime":2874.413,"endTime":2876.263,"body":"I think how you use it is important."},{"startTime":2876.413,"endTime":2877.923,"body":"Initially, just make it visible."},{"startTime":2877.953,"endTime":2881.463,"body":"Just make visible the amount of"},{"startTime":2877.953,"endTime":2881.463,"body":"dollars that are spent in meetings."},{"startTime":2881.613,"endTime":2882.743,"body":"Do we really need a meeting?"},{"startTime":2883.053,"endTime":2885.933,"body":"First of all, right, can we just"},{"startTime":2883.053,"endTime":2885.933,"body":"chat about this in a Teams chat"},{"startTime":2885.933,"endTime":2887.083,"body":"or Google chat or something?"},{"startTime":2887.233,"endTime":2888.283,"body":"Do we have to have a meeting?"},{"startTime":2888.433,"endTime":2891.153,"body":"I don't know if I, I don't"},{"startTime":2888.433,"endTime":2891.153,"body":"like the idea of tracking this."},{"startTime":2891.363,"endTime":2896.193,"body":"Because, I can count probably into"},{"startTime":2891.363,"endTime":2896.193,"body":"the double digits of people that I've"},{"startTime":2896.193,"endTime":2900.263,"body":"interacted with across my career that"},{"startTime":2896.193,"endTime":2900.263,"body":"have walked into one of the out of"},{"startTime":2900.263,"endTime":2904.323,"body":"the box Scrum events and said, wow,"},{"startTime":2900.263,"endTime":2904.323,"body":"there's a lot of people in here."},{"startTime":2904.323,"endTime":2905.223,"body":"Do we really need them?"},{"startTime":2905.273,"endTime":2906.423,"body":"Leave us alone."},{"startTime":2906.433,"endTime":2909.503,"body":"Like it's, it's not the scrum"},{"startTime":2906.433,"endTime":2909.503,"body":"events that you need to worry about."},{"startTime":2909.533,"endTime":2913.573,"body":"It's all the rest of the garbage"},{"startTime":2909.533,"endTime":2913.573,"body":"meetings that, so that's a great point."},{"startTime":2913.573,"endTime":2913.863,"body":"Right."},{"startTime":2914.013,"endTime":2917.953,"body":"If you're doing the scrum events well,"},{"startTime":2914.013,"endTime":2917.953,"body":"you should need very, very few garbage"},{"startTime":2917.953,"endTime":2919.453,"body":"meetings outside of the scrum events."},{"startTime":2919.463,"endTime":2920.703,"body":"Look at, look at it that way."},{"startTime":2920.753,"endTime":2922.763,"body":"Don't look at the durations"},{"startTime":2920.753,"endTime":2922.763,"body":"of those garbage meetings."},{"startTime":2922.823,"endTime":2924.163,"body":"How many are we having and why?"},{"startTime":2924.313,"endTime":2927.923,"body":"Why aren't these being able to handle"},{"startTime":2924.313,"endTime":2927.923,"body":"through the regular scrum events?"},{"startTime":2927.963,"endTime":2931.473,"body":"Now, if that's the metric that"},{"startTime":2927.963,"endTime":2931.473,"body":"we're tracking, I'm all for it."},{"startTime":2931.493,"endTime":2934.678,"body":"I would say meeting durations"},{"startTime":2931.493,"endTime":2934.678,"body":"and effectiveness of Non"},{"startTime":2934.678,"endTime":2936.668,"body":"scrum related meetings."},{"startTime":2936.818,"endTime":2937.728,"body":"That's a great clarification."},{"startTime":2938.018,"endTime":2938.728,"body":"I agree with that."},{"startTime":2938.728,"endTime":2940.558,"body":"Actually, I'm down to track it."},{"startTime":2940.748,"endTime":2942.898,"body":"Some people just love to be in meetings."},{"startTime":2942.958,"endTime":2944.058,"body":"And let me pivot it off."},{"startTime":2944.168,"endTime":2947.708,"body":"Let me pivot it by meeting"},{"startTime":2944.168,"endTime":2947.708,"body":"organizer so I can see who is"},{"startTime":2947.708,"endTime":2948.868,"body":"taking my team members time."},{"startTime":2949.018,"endTime":2949.258,"body":"Yep."},{"startTime":2949.298,"endTime":2951.718,"body":"And cross charge your"},{"startTime":2949.298,"endTime":2951.718,"body":"team members time to them."},{"startTime":2951.868,"endTime":2952.588,"body":"That's exactly right."},{"startTime":2952.588,"endTime":2957.228,"body":"Because again, as we learned, there's"},{"startTime":2952.588,"endTime":2957.228,"body":"no time in a Brian \u0026 Om's software"},{"startTime":2957.228,"endTime":2958.528,"body":"development company that is free."},{"startTime":2958.538,"endTime":2960.158,"body":"Everything is charged to a line item."},{"startTime":2960.308,"endTime":2963.798,"body":"So that we can extract maximum"},{"startTime":2960.308,"endTime":2963.798,"body":"dollars for a minimal work."},{"startTime":2963.948,"endTime":2966.278,"body":"Sneezes are free, but only one per day."},{"startTime":2966.428,"endTime":2967.438,"body":"Oh my goodness."},{"startTime":2967.438,"endTime":2970.708,"body":"If you're still with us and"},{"startTime":2967.438,"endTime":2970.708,"body":"you're interviewing for a product"},{"startTime":2970.728,"endTime":2974.108,"body":"manager position when I ask you"},{"startTime":2970.728,"endTime":2974.108,"body":"what metrics might you look at to"},{"startTime":2974.108,"endTime":2978.558,"body":"know if an Agile team Is operating"},{"startTime":2974.108,"endTime":2978.558,"body":"effectively,  or working well together."},{"startTime":2978.868,"endTime":2982.528,"body":"Now, hopefully you have a"},{"startTime":2978.868,"endTime":2982.528,"body":"better response than velocity"},{"startTime":2982.858,"endTime":2985.098,"body":"or utilization hopes and dreams."},{"startTime":2985.138,"endTime":2986.288,"body":"Yeah,  don't say utilization."},{"startTime":2986.288,"endTime":2986.928,"body":"I'll kick you out."},{"startTime":2987.078,"endTime":2987.728,"body":"All right, folks."},{"startTime":2987.728,"endTime":2991.688,"body":"Listen thank you for staying with us"},{"startTime":2987.728,"endTime":2991.688,"body":"like, and subscribe our podcasts and"},{"startTime":2991.688,"endTime":2994.808,"body":"let us know down below in the comments,"},{"startTime":2991.688,"endTime":2994.808,"body":"what else you'd like us to talk about"},{"startTime":2995.008,"endTime":2997.018,"body":"maximum utilization, max headroom."}]}