{"version":"1.0.0","segments":[{"startTime":0.0,"endTime":6.698,"body":"If I explained to, , the listeners"},{"startTime":0.0,"endTime":6.698,"body":"how crazy . our software system is"},{"startTime":6.708,"endTime":10.778,"body":"and why it's so difficult for legacy"},{"startTime":6.708,"endTime":10.778,"body":"car companies to get software right."},{"startTime":10.788,"endTime":12.738,"body":"You'd be  I'll do it very quickly."},{"startTime":12.888,"endTime":18.378,"body":"So to save probably 500 a vehicle, We"},{"startTime":12.888,"endTime":18.378,"body":"farmed out all the modules that control"},{"startTime":18.378,"endTime":22.118,"body":"the vehicles to our suppliers because"},{"startTime":18.378,"endTime":22.118,"body":"we could bid them against each other."},{"startTime":22.268,"endTime":25.118,"body":"So Bosch would do the body control"},{"startTime":22.268,"endTime":25.118,"body":"module, someone else would do the"},{"startTime":25.118,"endTime":28.118,"body":"seat control module, and we'd have"},{"startTime":25.118,"endTime":28.118,"body":"about 150 of these modules and"},{"startTime":28.118,"endTime":29.338,"body":"semiconductors all through the car."},{"startTime":29.488,"endTime":32.428,"body":"The problem is the software"},{"startTime":29.488,"endTime":32.428,"body":"are all written by, you know,"},{"startTime":32.478,"endTime":35.318,"body":"150 different companies and"},{"startTime":32.478,"endTime":35.318,"body":"they don't talk to each other."},{"startTime":35.613,"endTime":38.793,"body":"And so even though it says Ford"},{"startTime":35.613,"endTime":38.793,"body":"on the front, I actually have to"},{"startTime":38.793,"endTime":43.183,"body":"go to Bosch to get permission to"},{"startTime":38.793,"endTime":43.183,"body":"change their seat control software."},{"startTime":43.333,"endTime":43.783,"body":"Right."},{"startTime":43.983,"endTime":48.233,"body":"So even if I had a high speed modem in"},{"startTime":43.983,"endTime":48.233,"body":"the vehicle and, and I had the ability"},{"startTime":48.233,"endTime":53.573,"body":"to write their software, it's actually"},{"startTime":48.233,"endTime":53.573,"body":"their IP and I have 150, we call it the"},{"startTime":53.723,"endTime":58.503,"body":"loose confederation of software providers,"},{"startTime":53.723,"endTime":58.503,"body":"150 completely different software"},{"startTime":58.653,"endTime":62.703,"body":"programming languages, you know, all the"},{"startTime":58.653,"endTime":62.703,"body":"structure of the software is different."},{"startTime":62.703,"endTime":64.533,"body":"And we can't even understand it all."},{"startTime":64.683,"endTime":68.193,"body":"So, you know, that's why at"},{"startTime":64.683,"endTime":68.193,"body":"Ford, we've decided in the second"},{"startTime":68.193,"endTime":71.883,"body":"generation product to completely"},{"startTime":68.193,"endTime":71.883,"body":"in source electrical architecture."},{"startTime":72.033,"endTime":74.833,"body":"And to do that, you need to write"},{"startTime":72.033,"endTime":74.833,"body":"all the software yourself, but"},{"startTime":74.833,"endTime":78.783,"body":"just remember car companies haven't"},{"startTime":74.833,"endTime":78.783,"body":"written software like this ever."},{"startTime":78.943,"endTime":83.633,"body":"So we're literally writing how the"},{"startTime":78.943,"endTime":83.633,"body":"vehicle operates, for the first time ever."},{"startTime":83.643,"endTime":89.145,"body":"podcast, Clint is here to talk about,"},{"startTime":83.643,"endTime":89.145,"body":"Agile in manufacturing and to talk about"},{"startTime":89.145,"endTime":95.135,"body":"the manufacturing side of having software"},{"startTime":89.145,"endTime":95.135,"body":"and hardware together in the process."},{"startTime":95.475,"endTime":98.865,"body":"I played this clip from the CEO"},{"startTime":95.475,"endTime":98.865,"body":"of Ford, about something that's"},{"startTime":98.885,"endTime":100.445,"body":"completely gotten out of hand."},{"startTime":100.595,"endTime":101.355,"body":"It's a great topic."},{"startTime":101.425,"endTime":104.425,"body":"I don't see a whole lot of podcasts"},{"startTime":101.425,"endTime":104.425,"body":"out there tackling this topic."},{"startTime":104.425,"endTime":106.045,"body":"Essentially we're talking about making."},{"startTime":106.195,"endTime":107.915,"body":"Things that you can feel in touch, right?"},{"startTime":107.915,"endTime":110.155,"body":"Physical products in manufacturing."},{"startTime":110.175,"endTime":111.435,"body":"So then, let's kick off."},{"startTime":111.455,"endTime":114.855,"body":"Can Agile legitimately"},{"startTime":111.455,"endTime":114.855,"body":"be used in manufacturing?"},{"startTime":115.005,"endTime":118.385,"body":"I mean, like all this stuff"},{"startTime":115.005,"endTime":118.385,"body":"came from manufacturing exactly."},{"startTime":118.635,"endTime":119.475,"body":"I'm glad you said that."},{"startTime":119.485,"endTime":122.685,"body":"So we've gone full circle,"},{"startTime":119.485,"endTime":122.685,"body":"really , it's about delivering"},{"startTime":122.685,"endTime":124.075,"body":"value to the customer, right?"},{"startTime":124.225,"endTime":127.235,"body":"And making sure that they're Involved"},{"startTime":124.225,"endTime":127.235,"body":"in that process And that you don't run"},{"startTime":127.235,"endTime":131.615,"body":"down too many rabbit holes of, waste"},{"startTime":127.235,"endTime":131.615,"body":"and effort And everything else And a"},{"startTime":131.615,"endTime":135.98,"body":"lot of people, a lot of organizations"},{"startTime":131.615,"endTime":135.98,"body":"Get caught up in that And Agile being"},{"startTime":135.98,"endTime":140.095,"body":"applied To those environments Can"},{"startTime":135.98,"endTime":140.095,"body":"remove Some of those issues especially"},{"startTime":140.245,"endTime":143.685,"body":"We started looking at post COVID we,"},{"startTime":140.245,"endTime":143.685,"body":"everybody, the whole supply chain"},{"startTime":143.685,"endTime":146.305,"body":"essentially broke in a matter of months."},{"startTime":146.565,"endTime":150.285,"body":"And then the recovery after everything"},{"startTime":146.565,"endTime":150.285,"body":"started back up still took even more time."},{"startTime":150.435,"endTime":154.465,"body":"So trying to deal with everything"},{"startTime":150.435,"endTime":154.465,"body":"in a manufacturing environment after"},{"startTime":154.465,"endTime":158.385,"body":"that, when you're not the you're not"},{"startTime":154.465,"endTime":158.385,"body":"Facebook, you can't go to a company"},{"startTime":158.385,"endTime":160.535,"body":"and say, I need 5, 000 of these now."},{"startTime":160.685,"endTime":163.605,"body":"Well, if you're a smaller company"},{"startTime":160.685,"endTime":163.605,"body":"and you go there and you say, I need"},{"startTime":163.755,"endTime":167.585,"body":"500 of these now, and they're like,"},{"startTime":163.755,"endTime":167.585,"body":"Facebook just called they need a lot"},{"startTime":167.585,"endTime":168.965,"body":"more and , we're gonna go with them."},{"startTime":168.995,"endTime":169.235,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":169.235,"endTime":169.385,"body":"Right."},{"startTime":169.435,"endTime":170.155,"body":"You're on a wait list."},{"startTime":170.155,"endTime":170.305,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":170.455,"endTime":172.615,"body":"You know, you have to be"},{"startTime":170.455,"endTime":172.615,"body":"able to react to that."},{"startTime":172.765,"endTime":175.645,"body":"And then every, every facet"},{"startTime":172.765,"endTime":175.645,"body":"of the organization has to"},{"startTime":175.65,"endTime":176.395,"body":"be able to react to that."},{"startTime":176.4,"endTime":180.205,"body":"So your procurement team has to be"},{"startTime":176.4,"endTime":180.205,"body":"able to turn and find a new supplier."},{"startTime":180.355,"endTime":180.535,"body":"Right."},{"startTime":180.535,"endTime":184.7,"body":"And even if they can't find a new"},{"startTime":180.535,"endTime":184.7,"body":"supplier, you find another manufacturer"},{"startTime":184.7,"endTime":188.58,"body":"of that product and hopefully your"},{"startTime":184.7,"endTime":188.58,"body":"engineering team can turn too fast"},{"startTime":188.58,"endTime":191.74,"body":"enough and your software development"},{"startTime":188.58,"endTime":191.74,"body":"team can turn too fast enough"},{"startTime":191.74,"endTime":193.0,"body":"to be able to push that through."},{"startTime":193.15,"endTime":195.87,"body":"And then on the product, product"},{"startTime":193.15,"endTime":195.87,"body":"management side of that, you need"},{"startTime":195.87,"endTime":197.2,"body":"the customer to be okay with."},{"startTime":197.35,"endTime":202.24,"body":"They have a hundred modules of your"},{"startTime":197.35,"endTime":202.24,"body":"product and they all have this type"},{"startTime":202.37,"endTime":206.97,"body":"of this type of And now we're going"},{"startTime":202.37,"endTime":206.97,"body":"to change and they're going to have,"},{"startTime":207.12,"endTime":207.93,"body":"they're going to have this type."},{"startTime":208.08,"endTime":210.61,"body":"Well, they want everything to match"},{"startTime":208.08,"endTime":210.61,"body":"because when they walk through"},{"startTime":210.61,"endTime":213.42,"body":"there, they want a nice, pretty,"},{"startTime":210.61,"endTime":213.42,"body":"everything's exactly the same."},{"startTime":213.42,"endTime":216.66,"body":"And then stocking parts for"},{"startTime":213.42,"endTime":216.66,"body":"maintenance after that, same thing."},{"startTime":216.68,"endTime":218.31,"body":"I don't want to have to stock two things."},{"startTime":218.46,"endTime":218.67,"body":"Right."},{"startTime":218.8,"endTime":221.49,"body":"A lot of people that deal with"},{"startTime":218.8,"endTime":221.49,"body":"software, They just don't think about"},{"startTime":221.75,"endTime":225.85,"body":"the hardware side of the equation and"},{"startTime":221.75,"endTime":225.85,"body":"I've worked on development teams that"},{"startTime":225.9,"endTime":227.72,"body":"where we had a hardware component."},{"startTime":227.74,"endTime":231.3,"body":"So I was at least exposed to it"},{"startTime":227.74,"endTime":231.3,"body":"so I wanted to ask what do you"},{"startTime":231.3,"endTime":232.67,"body":"think the biggest difference is?"},{"startTime":232.82,"endTime":235.54,"body":"In manufacturing work with"},{"startTime":232.82,"endTime":235.54,"body":"a, with a physical product as"},{"startTime":235.54,"endTime":237.01,"body":"opposed to like purely software."},{"startTime":237.16,"endTime":237.92,"body":"Dependency."},{"startTime":238.07,"endTime":239.07,"body":"Is the biggest one."},{"startTime":239.22,"endTime":243.43,"body":"Because in software, right, you have your"},{"startTime":239.22,"endTime":243.43,"body":"own developers, you can write your own"},{"startTime":243.43,"endTime":244.89,"body":"code, you can develop your own product."},{"startTime":245.04,"endTime":249.07,"body":"In hardware, like in manufacturing,"},{"startTime":245.04,"endTime":249.07,"body":"you're dependent on other organizations,"},{"startTime":249.22,"endTime":253.81,"body":"other companies, possibly, to provide you"},{"startTime":249.22,"endTime":253.81,"body":"parts to be able to build your product."},{"startTime":253.96,"endTime":256.13,"body":"And if that goes too far, you get Ford."},{"startTime":256.28,"endTime":257.85,"body":"Yeah, I agree with that."},{"startTime":257.88,"endTime":260.79,"body":"I think in software development"},{"startTime":257.88,"endTime":260.79,"body":"a lot of times dependencies are"},{"startTime":260.79,"endTime":262.29,"body":"internal to the organization."},{"startTime":262.29,"endTime":262.53,"body":"Right."},{"startTime":262.64,"endTime":264.72,"body":"You're waiting on a team"},{"startTime":262.64,"endTime":264.72,"body":"or something, right?"},{"startTime":264.87,"endTime":268.61,"body":"With hardware, as you said, dependencies"},{"startTime":264.87,"endTime":268.61,"body":"are external to the corporation, right?"},{"startTime":268.8,"endTime":269.59,"body":"The organization."},{"startTime":269.59,"endTime":273.475,"body":"So then you get into this This game"},{"startTime":269.59,"endTime":273.475,"body":"of like, is there somebody else"},{"startTime":273.475,"endTime":275.995,"body":"who's also looking for the same"},{"startTime":273.475,"endTime":275.995,"body":"thing you're looking for from your"},{"startTime":276.025,"endTime":277.875,"body":"supplier, as you were saying earlier?"},{"startTime":278.025,"endTime":282.685,"body":"And is that, does that supplier have"},{"startTime":278.025,"endTime":282.685,"body":"enough raw materials to build that,"},{"startTime":282.865,"endTime":284.265,"body":"that stuff that you're looking for?"},{"startTime":284.455,"endTime":286.365,"body":"Or are they also waiting"},{"startTime":284.455,"endTime":286.365,"body":"on their suppliers?"},{"startTime":286.375,"endTime":289.735,"body":"So you get that whole domino effect, which"},{"startTime":286.375,"endTime":289.735,"body":"is what we saw during the pandemic too."},{"startTime":289.885,"endTime":292.855,"body":"But yeah, dependency is a"},{"startTime":289.885,"endTime":292.855,"body":"huge issue with with hardware."},{"startTime":292.855,"endTime":295.995,"body":"My experience has been with"},{"startTime":292.855,"endTime":295.995,"body":"Vendors that are providing a"},{"startTime":296.025,"endTime":297.835,"body":"component, a hardware component."},{"startTime":298.135,"endTime":303.015,"body":"And the company, the assembler, I"},{"startTime":298.135,"endTime":303.015,"body":"guess, is putting all of these together."},{"startTime":303.335,"endTime":305.655,"body":"And that includes hardware"},{"startTime":303.335,"endTime":305.655,"body":"and software, right?"},{"startTime":305.695,"endTime":309.585,"body":"And the biggest issues were really"},{"startTime":305.695,"endTime":309.585,"body":"around just time to deliver,"},{"startTime":309.735,"endTime":311.075,"body":"meeting those dependencies."},{"startTime":311.245,"endTime":316.525,"body":"Yeah, I mean, those are the logistical"},{"startTime":311.245,"endTime":316.525,"body":"issues, but underneath that, getting"},{"startTime":316.525,"endTime":321.425,"body":"people to talk the same language and"},{"startTime":316.525,"endTime":321.425,"body":"understand the principles of being agile"},{"startTime":321.545,"endTime":325.395,"body":"whether it's software or hardware, for"},{"startTime":321.545,"endTime":325.395,"body":"me, it was harder to get all of those"},{"startTime":325.405,"endTime":329.925,"body":"guys in hardware to come to the table"},{"startTime":325.405,"endTime":329.925,"body":"and understand that we're trying to"},{"startTime":329.925,"endTime":331.815,"body":"do this so that we can be more nimble."},{"startTime":331.965,"endTime":333.615,"body":"We can be more flexible."},{"startTime":333.645,"endTime":334.675,"body":"We can be adaptable."},{"startTime":334.675,"endTime":335.705,"body":"All of those things that."},{"startTime":335.855,"endTime":340.335,"body":"I guess it is now collectively called"},{"startTime":335.855,"endTime":340.335,"body":"Principles of Agile in Manufacturing."},{"startTime":340.375,"endTime":342.585,"body":"Let's sit on dependencies for a second."},{"startTime":342.615,"endTime":347.735,"body":"Because the normal agilist"},{"startTime":342.615,"endTime":347.735,"body":"out there will say, well, you"},{"startTime":347.735,"endTime":349.405,"body":"got to drive out dependencies."},{"startTime":349.445,"endTime":351.695,"body":"You got to, you know"},{"startTime":349.445,"endTime":351.695,"body":"mitigate, mitigate them."},{"startTime":351.695,"endTime":351.875,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":351.875,"endTime":353.695,"body":"Basically work them out"},{"startTime":351.875,"endTime":353.695,"body":"of your organization."},{"startTime":353.695,"endTime":356.795,"body":"So, so your team can do everything and"},{"startTime":353.695,"endTime":356.795,"body":"they don't have dependencies anymore."},{"startTime":356.995,"endTime":357.815,"body":"This is a great example."},{"startTime":357.965,"endTime":362.645,"body":"That people might not be thinking of,"},{"startTime":357.965,"endTime":362.645,"body":"about times where it's just not possible."},{"startTime":362.795,"endTime":367.185,"body":"It's not possible for you to go to go buy"},{"startTime":362.795,"endTime":367.185,"body":"and set up and maintain all the equipment"},{"startTime":367.185,"endTime":372.065,"body":"necessary for you to produce all the"},{"startTime":367.185,"endTime":372.065,"body":"hardware side of your product when you"},{"startTime":372.065,"endTime":374.075,"body":"have a product that's hardware software."},{"startTime":374.225,"endTime":375.615,"body":"So you have to partner with people."},{"startTime":375.765,"endTime":378.425,"body":"And then when you partner with people"},{"startTime":375.765,"endTime":378.425,"body":"there's a whole other side of it of"},{"startTime":378.425,"endTime":382.035,"body":"like, how, how are you a big fish in a"},{"startTime":378.425,"endTime":382.035,"body":"small pond or a small fish in a big pond?"},{"startTime":382.185,"endTime":384.145,"body":"Because how vested are"},{"startTime":382.185,"endTime":384.145,"body":"your partners, right?"},{"startTime":384.145,"endTime":384.405,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":384.675,"endTime":388.955,"body":"There's a lot in the Deming literature"},{"startTime":384.675,"endTime":388.955,"body":"about this topic right here about"},{"startTime":389.235,"endTime":391.865,"body":"bringing your vendors into the ecosystem."},{"startTime":392.095,"endTime":398.685,"body":"Or if you're this small fish in a"},{"startTime":392.095,"endTime":398.685,"body":"big pond, you joining their ecosystem"},{"startTime":398.835,"endTime":401.485,"body":"to being like a good neighbor"},{"startTime":398.835,"endTime":401.485,"body":"to say like, Hey, you're making"},{"startTime":401.485,"endTime":403.195,"body":"these parts for this other person."},{"startTime":403.435,"endTime":404.525,"body":"And maybe we can just."},{"startTime":404.675,"endTime":408.445,"body":"Piggyback on what you're doing over"},{"startTime":404.675,"endTime":408.445,"body":"here, but it requires your, your hardware"},{"startTime":408.445,"endTime":413.115,"body":"vendor in that case to be a little open"},{"startTime":408.445,"endTime":413.115,"body":"be a little a little I don't know how"},{"startTime":413.115,"endTime":417.005,"body":"to say a little more transparent about"},{"startTime":413.115,"endTime":417.005,"body":"what they're doing, you know what I mean?"},{"startTime":417.015,"endTime":421.295,"body":"Rather than trying to extract maximum,"},{"startTime":417.015,"endTime":421.295,"body":"like the, like the, like the Ford CEO"},{"startTime":421.295,"endTime":424.585,"body":"was saying oh, we, we're going to bid all"},{"startTime":421.295,"endTime":424.585,"body":"these vendors against each other and make"},{"startTime":424.585,"endTime":428.255,"body":"them fight with knives, with butter knives"},{"startTime":424.585,"endTime":428.255,"body":"you're not gonna get the best quality."},{"startTime":428.305,"endTime":430.205,"body":"That's how you get the lowest cost."},{"startTime":430.245,"endTime":430.995,"body":"That's exactly right."},{"startTime":430.995,"endTime":433.945,"body":"Yeah, that's how you get the"},{"startTime":430.995,"endTime":433.945,"body":"cutting corners for the lowest cost."},{"startTime":434.095,"endTime":437.815,"body":"Yeah, I mean, if you take a look"},{"startTime":434.095,"endTime":437.815,"body":"at the longer kind of time horizon,"},{"startTime":437.995,"endTime":441.315,"body":"yeah, you're going to say 500 bucks"},{"startTime":437.995,"endTime":441.315,"body":"per vehicle, and that's a significant"},{"startTime":441.315,"endTime":444.545,"body":"amount of money look at the number"},{"startTime":441.315,"endTime":444.545,"body":"of cars they're shipping, right?"},{"startTime":444.695,"endTime":445.705,"body":"That's not insignificant."},{"startTime":445.755,"endTime":450.455,"body":"However, if the quality is so poor, and"},{"startTime":445.755,"endTime":450.455,"body":"you have to service that under warranty,"},{"startTime":450.465,"endTime":455.72,"body":"even one, One single incident is going"},{"startTime":450.465,"endTime":455.72,"body":"to wipe away that savings of 500 bucks."},{"startTime":455.87,"endTime":458.77,"body":"So to me, it sounds like"},{"startTime":455.87,"endTime":458.77,"body":"short term thinking."},{"startTime":458.92,"endTime":459.17,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":459.19,"endTime":459.45,"body":"Sorry."},{"startTime":459.45,"endTime":460.46,"body":"I'm running a query."},{"startTime":460.79,"endTime":464.77,"body":"How many, how many vehicles"},{"startTime":460.79,"endTime":464.77,"body":"does Ford sell in a year?"},{"startTime":464.92,"endTime":467.02,"body":"And it says 2023 Ford."},{"startTime":467.02,"endTime":467.89,"body":"So the media."},{"startTime":468.12,"endTime":468.39,"body":"ford."},{"startTime":468.53,"endTime":468.73,"body":"com."},{"startTime":468.73,"endTime":469.41,"body":"So this is Ford."},{"startTime":469.705,"endTime":470.245,"body":"Reporting this."},{"startTime":470.475,"endTime":471.195,"body":"0."},{"startTime":471.195,"endTime":473.815,"body":"23 sales totaled 1."},{"startTime":473.815,"endTime":475.245,"body":"995 million vehicles."},{"startTime":475.255,"endTime":476.975,"body":"Let's call it two for"},{"startTime":475.255,"endTime":476.975,"body":"what it's worth, right?"},{"startTime":477.215,"endTime":481.465,"body":"Two million vehicles and"},{"startTime":477.215,"endTime":481.465,"body":"they're saving 500 per vehicle."},{"startTime":481.515,"endTime":484.605,"body":"That is not a Insignificant amount"},{"startTime":481.515,"endTime":484.605,"body":"of money they're saving, right?"},{"startTime":484.715,"endTime":486.655,"body":"And that's a year on year year on year."},{"startTime":486.655,"endTime":487.435,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":487.435,"endTime":487.655,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":487.805,"endTime":491.625,"body":"So I think just just to kind of peel"},{"startTime":487.805,"endTime":491.625,"body":"back what you're saying, if you,"},{"startTime":491.665,"endTime":495.355,"body":"unless you're going to set up all the"},{"startTime":491.665,"endTime":495.355,"body":"equipment to make everything needed"},{"startTime":495.365,"endTime":498.535,"body":"yourself, let's say you have very"},{"startTime":495.365,"endTime":498.535,"body":"deep pockets and you could do that."},{"startTime":498.685,"endTime":500.795,"body":"How do you then fulfill"},{"startTime":498.685,"endTime":500.795,"body":"the, the knowledge gap?"},{"startTime":500.865,"endTime":503.955,"body":"You need people that that have"},{"startTime":500.865,"endTime":503.955,"body":"the skill sets to do all of that"},{"startTime":503.955,"endTime":505.665,"body":"work, which you don't have, right?"},{"startTime":505.715,"endTime":509.155,"body":"Even if you had the money to tool"},{"startTime":505.715,"endTime":509.155,"body":"up, you don't have the, Expertise."},{"startTime":509.305,"endTime":512.875,"body":"So that possibility is just"},{"startTime":509.305,"endTime":512.875,"body":"basically a non start, right?"},{"startTime":512.875,"endTime":513.845,"body":"You have the partner."},{"startTime":513.995,"endTime":515.615,"body":"We're talking about dependency management."},{"startTime":515.945,"endTime":518.695,"body":"If we bring this up at like a random"},{"startTime":515.945,"endTime":518.695,"body":"community event, it's like, what are"},{"startTime":518.695,"endTime":520.045,"body":"you doing for dependency management?"},{"startTime":520.265,"endTime":523.735,"body":"I guarantee you, if we bring this"},{"startTime":520.265,"endTime":523.735,"body":"topic up at our networking event"},{"startTime":523.735,"endTime":527.805,"body":"that's here in town that somebody will"},{"startTime":523.735,"endTime":527.805,"body":"immediately come back with like, will"},{"startTime":527.805,"endTime":529.555,"body":"work dependencies out of your system."},{"startTime":529.775,"endTime":531.345,"body":"Yep, buy more Red Yarn."},{"startTime":531.395,"endTime":537.585,"body":"Right, and then the elaboration on"},{"startTime":531.395,"endTime":537.585,"body":"that will be, well what if you cannot?"},{"startTime":537.665,"endTime":541.895,"body":"Because my hardware and software"},{"startTime":537.665,"endTime":541.895,"body":"are different components."},{"startTime":541.905,"endTime":544.175,"body":"So you will never work."},{"startTime":544.325,"endTime":546.775,"body":"dependency management out of your system."},{"startTime":547.015,"endTime":550.705,"body":"So, how much horsepower do you"},{"startTime":547.015,"endTime":550.705,"body":"put into dependency management?"},{"startTime":550.905,"endTime":552.725,"body":"This is not an easy topic to solve."},{"startTime":552.875,"endTime":553.995,"body":"This is a question for Clint."},{"startTime":553.995,"endTime":557.305,"body":"How much time in your experience do"},{"startTime":553.995,"endTime":557.305,"body":"people put into dependency management?"},{"startTime":557.455,"endTime":559.385,"body":"Knowing that this stuff could sink you."},{"startTime":559.535,"endTime":562.915,"body":"So, we had the downside of starting"},{"startTime":559.535,"endTime":562.915,"body":"from essentially ground zero."},{"startTime":563.065,"endTime":566.855,"body":"Because we had already had significant"},{"startTime":563.065,"endTime":566.855,"body":"problems, no visibility, like"},{"startTime":567.005,"endTime":570.635,"body":"So, high complexity, obviously"},{"startTime":567.005,"endTime":570.635,"body":"with so many dependencies, right?"},{"startTime":570.785,"endTime":572.925,"body":"So we went with, we went"},{"startTime":570.785,"endTime":572.925,"body":"with Scrum straight off."},{"startTime":573.055,"endTime":574.535,"body":"Because we want to improve quickly."},{"startTime":574.685,"endTime":577.175,"body":"Scrum's gonna get you there, because"},{"startTime":574.685,"endTime":577.175,"body":"as soon as you hit a problem, it's"},{"startTime":577.175,"endTime":578.695,"body":"gonna light up like a Christmas tree."},{"startTime":578.845,"endTime":581.695,"body":"We had that, and it looked like"},{"startTime":578.845,"endTime":581.695,"body":"Every warning light on your"},{"startTime":581.695,"endTime":582.975,"body":"dashboard coming on at once."},{"startTime":583.125,"endTime":584.315,"body":"And Terrain!"},{"startTime":584.405,"endTime":584.645,"body":"Terrain!"},{"startTime":584.875,"endTime":587.635,"body":"Realistically, you would want"},{"startTime":584.875,"endTime":587.635,"body":"the business unit responsible"},{"startTime":587.635,"endTime":591.205,"body":"for the, for the dependency to"},{"startTime":587.635,"endTime":591.205,"body":"start ironing out their process."},{"startTime":591.355,"endTime":592.465,"body":"It's not always what happens."},{"startTime":592.615,"endTime":595.775,"body":"And then that holds up a"},{"startTime":592.615,"endTime":595.775,"body":"lot of other things, but you"},{"startTime":595.775,"endTime":596.585,"body":"know where the problem's at."},{"startTime":596.735,"endTime":598.975,"body":"So at least you, at least you"},{"startTime":596.735,"endTime":598.975,"body":"have that visibility there."},{"startTime":599.005,"endTime":602.085,"body":"And you can start working a little bit out"},{"startTime":599.005,"endTime":602.085,"body":"of the system, dependency is not going to"},{"startTime":602.095,"endTime":604.515,"body":"be gone, but you can optimize the process."},{"startTime":604.665,"endTime":608.455,"body":"And then that's the, that's the"},{"startTime":604.665,"endTime":608.455,"body":"lean route there, is going through"},{"startTime":608.485,"endTime":609.725,"body":"the process, ironing it out."},{"startTime":609.88,"endTime":613.44,"body":"So you just have to be honest with"},{"startTime":609.88,"endTime":613.44,"body":"yourself about what the problems are and"},{"startTime":613.44,"endTime":617.43,"body":"where they're at and humble enough to"},{"startTime":613.44,"endTime":617.43,"body":"say, okay, we, we just got to fix this."},{"startTime":617.58,"endTime":620.72,"body":"So they'll, they'll never go away"},{"startTime":617.58,"endTime":620.72,"body":"completely, but you have to, you"},{"startTime":620.72,"endTime":624.09,"body":"have to be honest with yourself and"},{"startTime":620.72,"endTime":624.09,"body":"dedicate that time because much like"},{"startTime":624.09,"endTime":627.66,"body":"Ford, if you just keep pushing it"},{"startTime":624.09,"endTime":627.66,"body":"off, it's going to cost you later."},{"startTime":627.73,"endTime":629.8,"body":"You're going to pay it now or"},{"startTime":627.73,"endTime":629.8,"body":"you're going to pay it later,"},{"startTime":629.8,"endTime":631.14,"body":"but it's going to be paid."},{"startTime":631.29,"endTime":634.19,"body":"I think the big difference"},{"startTime":631.29,"endTime":634.19,"body":"between now and later is later"},{"startTime":634.2,"endTime":637.01,"body":"it comes laden with rep damage."},{"startTime":637.25,"endTime":641.15,"body":"That reputation damage is worth"},{"startTime":637.25,"endTime":641.15,"body":"a whole lot more than just simply"},{"startTime":641.15,"endTime":642.31,"body":"the dollars that you're losing."},{"startTime":642.64,"endTime":642.9,"body":"Right."},{"startTime":643.05,"endTime":645.36,"body":"The other problem with later is"},{"startTime":643.05,"endTime":645.36,"body":"like, now that you're in this"},{"startTime":645.42,"endTime":648.56,"body":"nosedive that you can't pull out"},{"startTime":645.42,"endTime":648.56,"body":"of now you have other problems."},{"startTime":648.57,"endTime":651.37,"body":"It's like when you there's a"},{"startTime":648.57,"endTime":651.37,"body":"leak in my roof, I'm just not"},{"startTime":651.37,"endTime":652.36,"body":"going to do anything about it."},{"startTime":652.37,"endTime":656.82,"body":"Like, now you've got mold and you've"},{"startTime":652.37,"endTime":656.82,"body":"got walls that need to be torn out and"},{"startTime":656.82,"endTime":660.06,"body":"you've got potentially other construction"},{"startTime":656.82,"endTime":660.06,"body":"issues or problems in your foundation."},{"startTime":660.06,"endTime":663.66,"body":"Like, later, now it's compounding"},{"startTime":660.06,"endTime":663.66,"body":"with other things that could have"},{"startTime":663.66,"endTime":666.96,"body":"been avoided if you had just not made"},{"startTime":663.66,"endTime":666.96,"body":"a bad decision in the first place."},{"startTime":666.97,"endTime":668.77,"body":"Like, I'm just going to"},{"startTime":666.97,"endTime":668.77,"body":"ignore the roof leak."},{"startTime":668.92,"endTime":672.19,"body":"Yeah, I was going to use the terrain"},{"startTime":668.92,"endTime":672.19,"body":"example, but it's probably a morose one."},{"startTime":672.34,"endTime":673.59,"body":"That mountain's coming at you fast."},{"startTime":673.74,"endTime":679.16,"body":"But look, the dependencies in a complex"},{"startTime":673.74,"endTime":679.16,"body":"situation, you don't just have several,"},{"startTime":679.16,"endTime":680.66,"body":"you have many, many, many dependencies."},{"startTime":680.87,"endTime":682.55,"body":"Just take Ford as an example, right?"},{"startTime":682.7,"endTime":683.94,"body":"They have so many suppliers."},{"startTime":684.21,"endTime":688.47,"body":"So, you can't always Smooth out"},{"startTime":684.21,"endTime":688.47,"body":"dependencies for everything."},{"startTime":688.62,"endTime":689.36,"body":"So then what do you do?"},{"startTime":689.62,"endTime":689.85,"body":"Right."},{"startTime":689.9,"endTime":690.22,"body":"Right."},{"startTime":690.37,"endTime":692.74,"body":"Which I think, I guess if that"},{"startTime":690.37,"endTime":692.74,"body":"question had an easy answer,"},{"startTime":692.74,"endTime":693.76,"body":"he would have done it already."},{"startTime":694.04,"endTime":698.28,"body":"So what I heard is, typically,"},{"startTime":694.04,"endTime":698.28,"body":"again, in the context of Ford, their"},{"startTime":698.28,"endTime":702.34,"body":"history has been making cars, not"},{"startTime":698.28,"endTime":702.34,"body":"writing software, as he was saying."},{"startTime":702.49,"endTime":704.64,"body":"And they started to write"},{"startTime":702.49,"endTime":704.64,"body":"software internally."},{"startTime":704.79,"endTime":708.27,"body":"Well, this is the first time"},{"startTime":704.79,"endTime":708.27,"body":"ever they're writing software."},{"startTime":708.42,"endTime":712.2,"body":"We can all kind of imagine how that's"},{"startTime":708.42,"endTime":712.2,"body":"going to go, initially at least, right?"},{"startTime":712.2,"endTime":713.32,"body":"There's going to be a learning curve."},{"startTime":713.47,"endTime":715.05,"body":"Until they get better, good enough."},{"startTime":715.12,"endTime":716.06,"body":"Let's just put it that way."},{"startTime":716.21,"endTime":720.1,"body":"During that time, you still have"},{"startTime":716.21,"endTime":720.1,"body":"to ride this, this idea of being"},{"startTime":720.1,"endTime":721.92,"body":"dependent or having dependencies."},{"startTime":722.07,"endTime":723.07,"body":"And what do you do?"},{"startTime":723.22,"endTime":726.41,"body":"You know, where I'm going with all"},{"startTime":723.22,"endTime":726.41,"body":"this is, my experience has been"},{"startTime":726.56,"endTime":728.72,"body":"just getting the agile mindset."},{"startTime":728.93,"endTime":731.89,"body":"And, and getting people to talk"},{"startTime":728.93,"endTime":731.89,"body":"about what we're trying to do here."},{"startTime":732.04,"endTime":733.37,"body":"That was a big challenge for me."},{"startTime":733.52,"endTime":737.08,"body":"Granted you're a 200 plus supplier"},{"startTime":733.52,"endTime":737.08,"body":"so that was a big, big challenge but"},{"startTime":737.15,"endTime":741.76,"body":"I don't know man, the CEO of Ford,"},{"startTime":737.15,"endTime":741.76,"body":"I mean he even said that it's crazy."},{"startTime":741.91,"endTime":745.94,"body":"I mean that that's like really"},{"startTime":741.91,"endTime":745.94,"body":"straightforward language for a CEO to use."},{"startTime":746.09,"endTime":750.59,"body":"And it, it makes it Seemed to me"},{"startTime":746.09,"endTime":750.59,"body":"that they made a purely financial"},{"startTime":750.59,"endTime":752.83,"body":"decision of how can we save?"},{"startTime":752.98,"endTime":755.09,"body":"You know like pitting suppliers"},{"startTime":752.98,"endTime":755.09,"body":"against each other basically."},{"startTime":755.26,"endTime":757.75,"body":"How can we save the"},{"startTime":755.26,"endTime":757.75,"body":"maximum amount of money?"},{"startTime":757.9,"endTime":760.29,"body":"Regardless of anything"},{"startTime":757.9,"endTime":760.29,"body":"else in consideration."},{"startTime":760.44,"endTime":764.48,"body":"Whereas, if you came at it from"},{"startTime":760.44,"endTime":764.48,"body":"the opposite perspective, we're"},{"startTime":764.48,"endTime":767.76,"body":"going to take full control of the"},{"startTime":764.48,"endTime":767.76,"body":"software for all of our vehicles."},{"startTime":767.91,"endTime":771.79,"body":"And not I mean, you can think of the same"},{"startTime":767.91,"endTime":771.79,"body":"thing, the same thing for component parts."},{"startTime":772.1,"endTime":773.93,"body":"We're going to produce"},{"startTime":772.1,"endTime":773.93,"body":"all the component parts."},{"startTime":773.96,"endTime":774.86,"body":"Oh my goodness."},{"startTime":775.1,"endTime":776.83,"body":"You're going to produce"},{"startTime":775.1,"endTime":776.83,"body":"all the component parts?"},{"startTime":777.08,"endTime":780.81,"body":"That's going to be an immense In terms"},{"startTime":777.08,"endTime":780.81,"body":"of machine set up and labor that you have"},{"startTime":780.81,"endTime":782.65,"body":"to hire and all all that kind of stuff."},{"startTime":782.65,"endTime":786.15,"body":"Like, Oh, you're going to do it all"},{"startTime":782.65,"endTime":786.15,"body":"onshore, offshore Mexico, China, wherever"},{"startTime":786.15,"endTime":787.34,"body":"you, wherever you're going to do it."},{"startTime":787.49,"endTime":793.58,"body":"That CEO would have to deal with a slew of"},{"startTime":787.49,"endTime":793.58,"body":"financial concerns to go down that road."},{"startTime":793.73,"endTime":797.82,"body":"And the metrics to measure the number"},{"startTime":793.73,"endTime":797.82,"body":"of tickets that come back in after a"},{"startTime":797.82,"endTime":801.04,"body":"product is out in the field, the, how long"},{"startTime":797.82,"endTime":801.04,"body":"our vehicles last, that kind of stuff."},{"startTime":801.36,"endTime":804.34,"body":"I don't know what kind of metrics"},{"startTime":801.36,"endTime":804.34,"body":"they're using to measure themselves."},{"startTime":804.49,"endTime":809.51,"body":"If they're purely using the"},{"startTime":804.49,"endTime":809.51,"body":"metric of profit year over year,"},{"startTime":809.66,"endTime":810.85,"body":"then he made the right decision."},{"startTime":811.0,"endTime":814.64,"body":"The customer satisfaction doesn't"},{"startTime":811.0,"endTime":814.64,"body":"matter, the amount that their vehicles"},{"startTime":814.66,"endTime":817.93,"body":"maintain themselves or whatever, you"},{"startTime":814.66,"endTime":817.93,"body":"know what I mean, like without breaking"},{"startTime":818.19,"endTime":821.06,"body":"from their servicing or whatever, like"},{"startTime":818.19,"endTime":821.06,"body":"doesn't matter, none of that matters."},{"startTime":821.21,"endTime":824.27,"body":"He made the right decision because the"},{"startTime":821.21,"endTime":824.27,"body":"only metric they use to judge themselves"},{"startTime":824.3,"endTime":826.0,"body":"is how much money did you make."},{"startTime":826.01,"endTime":827.44,"body":"Yeah, profit per unit."},{"startTime":827.575,"endTime":829.845,"body":"That's, that would be a problem."},{"startTime":829.995,"endTime":833.415,"body":"That's one of those rabbit holes that a"},{"startTime":829.995,"endTime":833.415,"body":"lot of places are falling into right now."},{"startTime":833.565,"endTime":835.825,"body":"Because, yes, revenue"},{"startTime":833.565,"endTime":835.825,"body":"keeps the business running."},{"startTime":835.835,"endTime":837.705,"body":"At the end of the day, that's"},{"startTime":835.835,"endTime":837.705,"body":"what you're there for, right?"},{"startTime":837.955,"endTime":838.215,"body":"Sure."},{"startTime":838.365,"endTime":842.415,"body":"But the immediate The, the immediate"},{"startTime":838.365,"endTime":842.415,"body":"revenue versus things that are hard"},{"startTime":842.415,"endTime":848.335,"body":"to measure beforehand, measure without"},{"startTime":842.415,"endTime":848.335,"body":"hindsight, like your reputation impact and"},{"startTime":848.335,"endTime":852.365,"body":"the, the sales impact of that reputation"},{"startTime":848.335,"endTime":852.365,"body":"damage that you could be running into."},{"startTime":852.515,"endTime":854.555,"body":"Just don't get taken into consideration."},{"startTime":854.865,"endTime":856.525,"body":"It's all about the immediate profit."},{"startTime":856.695,"endTime":857.975,"body":"So then you do things like."},{"startTime":858.125,"endTime":860.365,"body":"You push a product out"},{"startTime":858.125,"endTime":860.365,"body":"that's not fully developed."},{"startTime":860.515,"endTime":863.175,"body":"Sure, you get the customer to"},{"startTime":860.515,"endTime":863.175,"body":"agree to it, but then you're"},{"startTime":863.175,"endTime":864.355,"body":"going to pay that cost later."},{"startTime":864.385,"endTime":868.255,"body":"So, from the hardware side, if you push"},{"startTime":864.385,"endTime":868.255,"body":"something through that wasn't fully"},{"startTime":868.255,"endTime":871.475,"body":"tested when it left, or you pushed it"},{"startTime":868.255,"endTime":871.475,"body":"through with Without parts that you"},{"startTime":871.575,"endTime":874.725,"body":"didn't have, so you had to use used"},{"startTime":871.575,"endTime":874.725,"body":"stuff to like figure it out, and you"},{"startTime":874.725,"endTime":876.015,"body":"just shove that tool out the door."},{"startTime":876.165,"endTime":878.935,"body":"Sure, you're getting money for that,"},{"startTime":876.165,"endTime":878.935,"body":"but then how much is it costing you to"},{"startTime":878.935,"endTime":880.535,"body":"send somebody out there to fix it later?"},{"startTime":880.685,"endTime":882.965,"body":"How long they have to stay there,"},{"startTime":880.685,"endTime":882.965,"body":"the parts you have to do, the"},{"startTime":882.965,"endTime":885.915,"body":"reputation damage of, We got"},{"startTime":882.965,"endTime":885.915,"body":"this and it's broken day one."},{"startTime":886.065,"endTime":888.455,"body":"I should be able to plug this"},{"startTime":886.065,"endTime":888.455,"body":"into a production line and go,"},{"startTime":888.655,"endTime":892.175,"body":"those not immediately tangible"},{"startTime":888.655,"endTime":892.175,"body":"things seem to be given."},{"startTime":892.325,"endTime":896.565,"body":"Low regard and consideration in"},{"startTime":892.325,"endTime":896.565,"body":"comparison to, oh, this is revenue now."},{"startTime":896.715,"endTime":897.005,"body":"Right."},{"startTime":897.155,"endTime":900.445,"body":"Well, I mean, another one of these ones"},{"startTime":897.155,"endTime":900.445,"body":"that you'll deal with, with hardware."},{"startTime":900.79,"endTime":903.93,"body":"That you don't deal with purely"},{"startTime":900.79,"endTime":903.93,"body":"software is the, the up front cost,"},{"startTime":903.94,"endTime":907.8,"body":"the high, the higher up front cost"},{"startTime":903.94,"endTime":907.8,"body":"when you have hardware as part of your"},{"startTime":908.1,"endTime":909.64,"body":"you know, total package basically."},{"startTime":909.91,"endTime":911.44,"body":"Total package is not a"},{"startTime":909.91,"endTime":911.44,"body":"great way to explain that."},{"startTime":911.69,"endTime":912.62,"body":"There's a better term than total package."},{"startTime":912.62,"endTime":914.61,"body":"Yeah, you're right."},{"startTime":914.61,"endTime":917.435,"body":"I mean, you have to have raw"},{"startTime":914.61,"endTime":917.435,"body":"materials to build something, right?"},{"startTime":917.705,"endTime":919.135,"body":"Yeah, so you gotta buy those."},{"startTime":919.285,"endTime":922.795,"body":"And then you get into this whole"},{"startTime":919.285,"endTime":922.795,"body":"nightmare of logistics and availability."},{"startTime":922.795,"endTime":924.985,"body":"You have equipment and setup costs"},{"startTime":922.795,"endTime":924.985,"body":"and maintenance costs and stuff."},{"startTime":925.165,"endTime":927.735,"body":"In software, you just"},{"startTime":925.165,"endTime":927.735,"body":"don't have any of that."},{"startTime":927.745,"endTime":929.245,"body":"You don't have any of that at all."},{"startTime":929.425,"endTime":932.89,"body":"I mean, like we talk about all the time"},{"startTime":929.425,"endTime":932.89,"body":"on this podcast, we talk about MVP."},{"startTime":933.18,"endTime":937.48,"body":"Like what MVP is actually supposed to"},{"startTime":933.18,"endTime":937.48,"body":"be and like examples that we give on a"},{"startTime":937.48,"endTime":941.68,"body":"typical on a normal podcast will be Oh,"},{"startTime":937.48,"endTime":941.68,"body":"just throw some Figma mock ups out there"},{"startTime":941.68,"endTime":944.89,"body":"and send them to the customer and be"},{"startTime":941.68,"endTime":944.89,"body":"like, do you like mock up A or mock up B?"},{"startTime":944.9,"endTime":948.31,"body":"And then you, and then"},{"startTime":944.9,"endTime":948.31,"body":"that, that's your quote MVP."},{"startTime":948.38,"endTime":951.03,"body":"I call that the, the"},{"startTime":948.38,"endTime":951.03,"body":"optician's metrics, right?"},{"startTime":951.24,"endTime":952.78,"body":"You like A better or you like B?"},{"startTime":952.81,"endTime":953.59,"body":"That's exactly right."},{"startTime":953.8,"endTime":954.52,"body":"That's exactly right."},{"startTime":954.55,"endTime":954.83,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":955.05,"endTime":956.03,"body":"You can't do that with hardware."},{"startTime":956.28,"endTime":956.48,"body":"Right."},{"startTime":956.795,"endTime":957.055,"body":"Right."},{"startTime":957.115,"endTime":957.655,"body":"Right."},{"startTime":957.715,"endTime":960.485,"body":"Well, it's, I can't fathom how"},{"startTime":957.715,"endTime":960.485,"body":"you'd do that with hardware."},{"startTime":960.495,"endTime":964.025,"body":"Send two things out or multiple"},{"startTime":960.495,"endTime":964.025,"body":"that's just very cost prohibitive."},{"startTime":964.175,"endTime":967.275,"body":"Well, it's, you can't do it"},{"startTime":964.175,"endTime":967.275,"body":"mid mid development like you"},{"startTime":967.275,"endTime":968.315,"body":"can with, with other things."},{"startTime":968.315,"endTime":968.975,"body":"I mean, you can."},{"startTime":969.125,"endTime":971.425,"body":"But, ideally, right,"},{"startTime":969.125,"endTime":971.425,"body":"that's done beforehand."},{"startTime":971.485,"endTime":975.575,"body":"That's your, your R\u0026 D and your testing"},{"startTime":971.485,"endTime":975.575,"body":"there and then you announce new product."},{"startTime":975.725,"endTime":978.645,"body":"But, you're right, the upfront"},{"startTime":975.725,"endTime":978.645,"body":"cost of that is significant."},{"startTime":978.795,"endTime":982.495,"body":"I think, I think other than the"},{"startTime":978.795,"endTime":982.495,"body":"cost, it's this whole idea of Yeah."},{"startTime":982.495,"endTime":985.095,"body":"Work with your customer way"},{"startTime":982.495,"endTime":985.095,"body":"before you even have a product."},{"startTime":985.245,"endTime":989.855,"body":"And I don't know if that's necessarily"},{"startTime":985.245,"endTime":989.855,"body":"generally true in hardware."},{"startTime":990.005,"endTime":995.095,"body":"In hardware, mostly it's the, the units"},{"startTime":990.005,"endTime":995.095,"body":"on sale that's, and you as a prospective"},{"startTime":995.095,"endTime":1000.225,"body":"customer can go find that, right, nobody"},{"startTime":995.095,"endTime":1000.225,"body":"consulted you ahead of time I, I think"},{"startTime":1000.225,"endTime":1004.265,"body":"that's a big issue because it causes this"},{"startTime":1000.225,"endTime":1004.265,"body":"idea of we're making it for them, what"},{"startTime":1004.325,"endTime":1008.135,"body":"and there's a life cycle and if they don't"},{"startTime":1004.325,"endTime":1008.135,"body":"like it, they can buy version two, right?"},{"startTime":1008.185,"endTime":1010.395,"body":"And that's kind of not nice."},{"startTime":1010.545,"endTime":1013.995,"body":"I mean, it's, it's not nice, but people"},{"startTime":1010.545,"endTime":1013.995,"body":"with version one of the hardware didn't"},{"startTime":1013.995,"endTime":1016.125,"body":"necessarily get upgrades for free."},{"startTime":1016.475,"endTime":1020.45,"body":"They had to buy their upgrades which,"},{"startTime":1016.475,"endTime":1020.45,"body":"which some users, depending on their"},{"startTime":1020.6,"endTime":1023.395,"body":"kind of, their, their worldview"},{"startTime":1020.6,"endTime":1023.395,"body":"they, they kind of viewed that"},{"startTime":1023.395,"endTime":1025.125,"body":"as you know, not they were stiff."},{"startTime":1025.155,"endTime":1026.115,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":1026.115,"endTime":1026.117,"body":"They, yeah."},{"startTime":1026.117,"endTime":1029.205,"body":"They kind of viewed that as like they were"},{"startTime":1026.117,"endTime":1029.205,"body":"kind of, but, but on the other hand, like"},{"startTime":1029.205,"endTime":1032.205,"body":"you're getting version one, like you're"},{"startTime":1029.205,"endTime":1032.205,"body":"getting the latest adopter, you're getting"},{"startTime":1032.205,"endTime":1037.605,"body":"version, somebody out there has a version"},{"startTime":1032.205,"endTime":1037.605,"body":"one of the iPhone or the iPad or whatever."},{"startTime":1037.755,"endTime":1041.275,"body":"And it it doesn't get it doesn't"},{"startTime":1037.755,"endTime":1041.275,"body":"get iOS upgrades anymore."},{"startTime":1041.405,"endTime":1041.805,"body":"You know what I mean?"},{"startTime":1041.805,"endTime":1043.245,"body":"It's end of life, basically."},{"startTime":1043.575,"endTime":1046.715,"body":"And it's, it's barely usable for"},{"startTime":1043.575,"endTime":1046.715,"body":"anything in the modern world."},{"startTime":1046.715,"endTime":1049.035,"body":"But back in the day, it was"},{"startTime":1046.715,"endTime":1049.035,"body":"really awesome, and they"},{"startTime":1049.035,"endTime":1050.395,"body":"were willing to pay for that."},{"startTime":1050.545,"endTime":1053.555,"body":"Yeah, the early adopter cost,"},{"startTime":1050.545,"endTime":1053.555,"body":"basically, is what we're saying, right?"},{"startTime":1053.625,"endTime":1053.925,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":1054.165,"endTime":1056.865,"body":"Yeah, and I think that's,"},{"startTime":1054.165,"endTime":1056.865,"body":"that's reasonable, right?"},{"startTime":1056.895,"endTime":1060.315,"body":"If you really want to get on"},{"startTime":1056.895,"endTime":1060.315,"body":"the bandwagon fast, you're"},{"startTime":1060.315,"endTime":1061.295,"body":"gonna get what you're gonna get."},{"startTime":1061.445,"endTime":1065.605,"body":"But those customers, I think, pay"},{"startTime":1061.445,"endTime":1065.605,"body":"a higher premium for version 1."},{"startTime":1065.605,"endTime":1068.925,"body":"Subsequent versions of the product,"},{"startTime":1065.605,"endTime":1068.925,"body":"presumably, will be cheaper."},{"startTime":1069.075,"endTime":1072.465,"body":"Because you get economies of scale,"},{"startTime":1069.075,"endTime":1072.465,"body":"right, as you're going through this."},{"startTime":1072.475,"endTime":1072.865,"body":"Presumably."},{"startTime":1073.015,"endTime":1075.815,"body":"Well, you have to, you have to take"},{"startTime":1073.015,"endTime":1075.815,"body":"into consideration those situations."},{"startTime":1075.815,"endTime":1078.665,"body":"And those are some of the good,"},{"startTime":1075.815,"endTime":1078.665,"body":"some of the times where it might"},{"startTime":1078.665,"endTime":1081.005,"body":"be good that your sales team is"},{"startTime":1078.665,"endTime":1081.005,"body":"out running your development."},{"startTime":1081.005,"endTime":1085.535,"body":"Like, they're going to sell a"},{"startTime":1081.005,"endTime":1085.535,"body":"product that you haven't made yet."},{"startTime":1085.685,"endTime":1089.685,"body":"But you have to be agile in"},{"startTime":1085.685,"endTime":1089.685,"body":"your development process to"},{"startTime":1089.695,"endTime":1091.015,"body":"be able to keep up with that."},{"startTime":1091.325,"endTime":1093.265,"body":"Because when you offer a"},{"startTime":1091.325,"endTime":1093.265,"body":"customer something and you"},{"startTime":1093.265,"endTime":1094.195,"body":"say, yeah, we can do this."},{"startTime":1094.345,"endTime":1097.175,"body":"And if you're honest with"},{"startTime":1094.345,"endTime":1097.175,"body":"them about we can develop that"},{"startTime":1097.515,"endTime":1099.145,"body":"versus, yeah, we've got that."},{"startTime":1099.295,"endTime":1102.175,"body":"Hey, we have that."},{"startTime":1102.175,"endTime":1103.255,"body":"It should work out okay."},{"startTime":1103.255,"endTime":1106.565,"body":"Because yeah, you have them fronting"},{"startTime":1103.255,"endTime":1106.565,"body":"that, that costs a little bit."},{"startTime":1106.715,"endTime":1109.835,"body":"But you have to be able to turn too"},{"startTime":1106.715,"endTime":1109.835,"body":"fast enough where you don't lose it."},{"startTime":1110.095,"endTime":1112.815,"body":"Yeah,"},{"startTime":1112.965,"endTime":1116.375,"body":"I think what's kind of flowing"},{"startTime":1112.965,"endTime":1116.375,"body":"parallel to that is this is this"},{"startTime":1116.415,"endTime":1119.285,"body":"current of competitiveness you've"},{"startTime":1116.415,"endTime":1119.285,"body":"got to your competitors too."},{"startTime":1119.455,"endTime":1123.865,"body":"So those salespeople need to stay fast"},{"startTime":1119.455,"endTime":1123.865,"body":"enough where you don't lose market"},{"startTime":1123.865,"endTime":1127.865,"body":"share to the competitors, but at the"},{"startTime":1123.865,"endTime":1127.865,"body":"same time, they've got to make sure"},{"startTime":1127.865,"endTime":1129.875,"body":"that you can actually have delivery."},{"startTime":1130.025,"endTime":1133.155,"body":"Otherwise you have this situation, like"},{"startTime":1130.025,"endTime":1133.155,"body":"in the automotive industry, you can"},{"startTime":1133.155,"endTime":1137.375,"body":"sign up, pay your deposit for a future"},{"startTime":1133.155,"endTime":1137.375,"body":"model that doesn't happen for a while."},{"startTime":1137.525,"endTime":1138.835,"body":"Gets delayed and delayed."},{"startTime":1138.985,"endTime":1139.965,"body":"That's not uncommon."},{"startTime":1140.115,"endTime":1143.865,"body":"Well, in a, if you have a, if you have"},{"startTime":1140.115,"endTime":1143.865,"body":"a manufacturing work organization,"},{"startTime":1144.015,"endTime":1148.045,"body":"that's started to adopt agile, you,"},{"startTime":1144.015,"endTime":1148.045,"body":"you have your cross functional teams"},{"startTime":1148.045,"endTime":1152.545,"body":"and no matter how you divide them by"},{"startTime":1148.045,"endTime":1152.545,"body":"product line or anything else stage,"},{"startTime":1152.695,"endTime":1155.175,"body":"that air of transparency"},{"startTime":1152.695,"endTime":1155.175,"body":"has got to be there, right?"},{"startTime":1155.175,"endTime":1158.915,"body":"So the sales team can make a sale on"},{"startTime":1155.175,"endTime":1158.915,"body":"something that we haven't developed yet."},{"startTime":1158.925,"endTime":1161.075,"body":"That backlog somewhere."},{"startTime":1161.225,"endTime":1164.385,"body":"But they have to as soon as"},{"startTime":1161.225,"endTime":1164.385,"body":"possible turn that over right?"},{"startTime":1164.515,"endTime":1168.895,"body":"Hey, I I have a customer they're"},{"startTime":1164.515,"endTime":1168.895,"body":"interested in this and then you Start"},{"startTime":1168.895,"endTime":1172.315,"body":"doing the risk on that and see what"},{"startTime":1168.895,"endTime":1172.315,"body":"the what the whole market looks like"},{"startTime":1172.315,"endTime":1175.085,"body":"and if you can throw that together"},{"startTime":1172.315,"endTime":1175.085,"body":"fast enough You're gonna easily"},{"startTime":1175.085,"endTime":1179.075,"body":"outrun your competition here but that"},{"startTime":1175.085,"endTime":1179.075,"body":"that honesty and transparency has"},{"startTime":1179.075,"endTime":1182.125,"body":"got to be there throughout the whole"},{"startTime":1179.075,"endTime":1182.125,"body":"organization that you're not gonna"},{"startTime":1182.275,"endTime":1186.695,"body":"silo up anywhere or somebody's not"},{"startTime":1182.275,"endTime":1186.695,"body":"gonna withhold their their best effort"},{"startTime":1186.695,"endTime":1189.745,"body":"on things because they have something"},{"startTime":1186.695,"endTime":1189.745,"body":"that they're more interested in doing."},{"startTime":1189.895,"endTime":1192.335,"body":"And then you have a whole"},{"startTime":1189.895,"endTime":1192.335,"body":"team behind that salesman."},{"startTime":1192.485,"endTime":1194.815,"body":"So you can't just have that guy"},{"startTime":1192.485,"endTime":1194.815,"body":"running out there on his own."},{"startTime":1194.825,"endTime":1197.635,"body":"You've got to have that whole team behind"},{"startTime":1194.825,"endTime":1197.635,"body":"them and you've got to have that team"},{"startTime":1197.635,"endTime":1200.435,"body":"alignment of we're going to beat everyone."},{"startTime":1200.585,"endTime":1203.275,"body":"Transparency and collaboration"},{"startTime":1200.585,"endTime":1203.275,"body":"throughout is what I'm hearing."},{"startTime":1203.325,"endTime":1206.775,"body":"I have a, another person I work with"},{"startTime":1203.325,"endTime":1206.775,"body":"that called the, they used to call"},{"startTime":1206.785,"endTime":1211.685,"body":"these people undisciplined sales, but"},{"startTime":1206.785,"endTime":1211.685,"body":"you can't have undisciplined sales."},{"startTime":1211.685,"endTime":1214.135,"body":"If you're selling something"},{"startTime":1211.685,"endTime":1214.135,"body":"that is, doesn't appear on our"},{"startTime":1214.135,"endTime":1217.335,"body":"roadmap and doesn't line up with"},{"startTime":1214.135,"endTime":1217.335,"body":"any of our business objectives."},{"startTime":1217.625,"endTime":1223.385,"body":"Like now the salesperson is the issue"},{"startTime":1217.625,"endTime":1223.385,"body":"because we, like we have a roadmap."},{"startTime":1223.425,"endTime":1228.285,"body":"We have a, we've, we have features"},{"startTime":1223.425,"endTime":1228.285,"body":"that we're developing and in this case"},{"startTime":1228.365,"endTime":1230.285,"body":"devices that we're developing, they're."},{"startTime":1230.435,"endTime":1234.955,"body":"In line with our roadmap that the business"},{"startTime":1230.435,"endTime":1234.955,"body":"is set and we've all set together and"},{"startTime":1234.955,"endTime":1237.695,"body":"you've got a salesperson basically out"},{"startTime":1234.955,"endTime":1237.695,"body":"there doing whatever they can do to"},{"startTime":1237.695,"endTime":1240.905,"body":"make a sale because they have different"},{"startTime":1237.695,"endTime":1240.905,"body":"incentives and all that kind of stuff."},{"startTime":1240.905,"endTime":1242.805,"body":"Like that's undisciplined sales."},{"startTime":1243.045,"endTime":1246.135,"body":"I want to take that off the table for a"},{"startTime":1243.045,"endTime":1246.135,"body":"second because like that should be easy"},{"startTime":1246.135,"endTime":1250.005,"body":"to point out to be like, you know what"},{"startTime":1246.135,"endTime":1250.005,"body":"you sold this feature, but I don't think,"},{"startTime":1250.155,"endTime":1254.2,"body":"I don't think that's the funny thing is"},{"startTime":1250.155,"endTime":1254.2,"body":"that the product management, like the."},{"startTime":1254.405,"endTime":1257.505,"body":"Point in my career that I'm at"},{"startTime":1254.405,"endTime":1257.505,"body":"now in product management, like"},{"startTime":1257.515,"endTime":1262.075,"body":"I will a million, billion percent"},{"startTime":1257.515,"endTime":1262.075,"body":"point that out to the salesperson."},{"startTime":1262.225,"endTime":1265.725,"body":"Because like you can get, if you want"},{"startTime":1262.225,"endTime":1265.725,"body":"to get a feature factory PM in here"},{"startTime":1265.725,"endTime":1267.235,"body":"to just build whatever you say, like."},{"startTime":1267.385,"endTime":1268.035,"body":"Cool."},{"startTime":1268.315,"endTime":1271.585,"body":"Like, I hope you're bringing in enough"},{"startTime":1268.315,"endTime":1271.585,"body":"new business, and I hope the churn"},{"startTime":1271.585,"endTime":1274.625,"body":"rate is low on your new business."},{"startTime":1274.925,"endTime":1278.665,"body":"Because if you're bringing in new"},{"startTime":1274.925,"endTime":1278.665,"body":"business, but the churn is 100%, so"},{"startTime":1278.665,"endTime":1281.936,"body":"basically you bring in new business,"},{"startTime":1278.665,"endTime":1281.936,"body":"and then they sign up with a yearly"},{"startTime":1281.936,"endTime":1285.067,"body":"contract, and then the next year,"},{"startTime":1281.936,"endTime":1285.067,"body":"0 percent of them renew, we need"},{"startTime":1285.067,"endTime":1286.557,"body":"to talk about that as a business."},{"startTime":1286.687,"endTime":1288.277,"body":"Like the whole business"},{"startTime":1286.687,"endTime":1288.277,"body":"needs to talk about that."},{"startTime":1288.277,"endTime":1291.647,"body":"It's like, why are we selling"},{"startTime":1288.277,"endTime":1291.647,"body":"customers that really, like"},{"startTime":1291.647,"endTime":1293.287,"body":"they get sold on our stuff."},{"startTime":1293.437,"endTime":1297.477,"body":"But after a year, they'll they're, they're"},{"startTime":1293.437,"endTime":1297.477,"body":"like when we really didn't use this we"},{"startTime":1297.477,"endTime":1298.977,"body":"really don't care about this product."},{"startTime":1299.187,"endTime":1300.017,"body":"That's a big problem."},{"startTime":1300.177,"endTime":1300.937,"body":"Huge problem."},{"startTime":1301.087,"endTime":1303.747,"body":"Yeah, we talked about on the"},{"startTime":1301.087,"endTime":1303.747,"body":"podcast that you don't stop it"},{"startTime":1303.747,"endTime":1304.997,"body":"done when you deliver, right?"},{"startTime":1305.027,"endTime":1307.657,"body":"You have to measure after"},{"startTime":1305.027,"endTime":1307.657,"body":"that, how it's landing with the"},{"startTime":1307.657,"endTime":1309.247,"body":"customers, are they using it, etc."},{"startTime":1309.257,"endTime":1310.907,"body":"So I think this is wrapped up in that too."},{"startTime":1311.057,"endTime":1315.132,"body":"You got to figure out, is their"},{"startTime":1311.057,"endTime":1315.132,"body":"experience worthwhile such that they"},{"startTime":1315.132,"endTime":1317.172,"body":"would invest money in your product again."},{"startTime":1317.322,"endTime":1319.142,"body":"I like, I like, I like where you're going."},{"startTime":1319.192,"endTime":1322.072,"body":"When you have a product that's"},{"startTime":1319.192,"endTime":1322.072,"body":"hardware and software combined, like"},{"startTime":1322.072,"endTime":1325.582,"body":"the end to end user experience is"},{"startTime":1322.072,"endTime":1325.582,"body":"even more important at this point."},{"startTime":1325.632,"endTime":1327.302,"body":"Even in the Marty Cagan four risks."},{"startTime":1327.452,"endTime":1329.482,"body":"They're like, Oh, the,"},{"startTime":1327.452,"endTime":1329.482,"body":"the can't usability."},{"startTime":1329.512,"endTime":1331.642,"body":"Can a user figure out how to use it?"},{"startTime":1331.792,"endTime":1335.472,"body":"When it's a software plus hardware"},{"startTime":1331.792,"endTime":1335.472,"body":"product, it's not like times"},{"startTime":1335.472,"endTime":1337.402,"body":"two, it's to the nth degree."},{"startTime":1337.402,"endTime":1338.542,"body":"It is, it's exponential."},{"startTime":1338.542,"endTime":1339.302,"body":"Yeah, right, yeah."},{"startTime":1339.452,"endTime":1342.772,"body":"Yeah, it's, it's very difficult"},{"startTime":1339.452,"endTime":1342.772,"body":"to get your mind around"},{"startTime":1342.782,"endTime":1344.482,"body":"getting a customer in to test."},{"startTime":1344.552,"endTime":1347.402,"body":"It's not at the end, but you"},{"startTime":1344.552,"endTime":1347.402,"body":"know, throughout the journey."},{"startTime":1347.462,"endTime":1347.722,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":1347.782,"endTime":1349.472,"body":"Both the software and the hardware."},{"startTime":1349.622,"endTime":1352.552,"body":"And do it in a way that, as"},{"startTime":1349.622,"endTime":1352.552,"body":"you were saying transparent."},{"startTime":1352.882,"endTime":1357.172,"body":"Bring the customer into your org, so they"},{"startTime":1352.882,"endTime":1357.172,"body":"become part of the org almost, right?"},{"startTime":1357.512,"endTime":1360.202,"body":"Such that they, they start"},{"startTime":1357.512,"endTime":1360.202,"body":"owning some of this stuff."},{"startTime":1360.212,"endTime":1364.672,"body":"Like they start feeling ownership of the"},{"startTime":1360.212,"endTime":1364.672,"body":"hardware that's being shown to them, of"},{"startTime":1364.672,"endTime":1366.122,"body":"the software that's being shown to them."},{"startTime":1366.272,"endTime":1369.182,"body":"The earlier you do this in"},{"startTime":1366.272,"endTime":1369.182,"body":"the cycle, the better it is,"},{"startTime":1369.222,"endTime":1370.402,"body":"because you can pivot faster."},{"startTime":1370.612,"endTime":1372.652,"body":"And you're getting feedback"},{"startTime":1370.612,"endTime":1372.652,"body":"from the actual customer."},{"startTime":1372.802,"endTime":1376.522,"body":"But all of that said, this, that"},{"startTime":1372.802,"endTime":1376.522,"body":"all sounds like common sense almost,"},{"startTime":1376.552,"endTime":1381.762,"body":"but It's very difficult to do this"},{"startTime":1376.552,"endTime":1381.762,"body":"when the hardware development effort"},{"startTime":1381.792,"endTime":1385.362,"body":"is on a different schedule than"},{"startTime":1381.792,"endTime":1385.362,"body":"the software development effort."},{"startTime":1385.363,"endTime":1388.192,"body":"And then you have integration"},{"startTime":1385.363,"endTime":1388.192,"body":"challenges, right?"},{"startTime":1388.342,"endTime":1390.472,"body":"At what point do you show"},{"startTime":1388.342,"endTime":1390.472,"body":"something to someone?"},{"startTime":1390.722,"endTime":1394.932,"body":"What is the functionality that, is"},{"startTime":1390.722,"endTime":1394.932,"body":"there mechanical functionality as well"},{"startTime":1394.932,"endTime":1396.522,"body":"as the software functionality, right?"},{"startTime":1396.672,"endTime":1398.467,"body":"So I think this is where you know."},{"startTime":1398.617,"endTime":1402.167,"body":"We could consider things like, well,"},{"startTime":1398.617,"endTime":1402.167,"body":"you said MVP, but I'm thinking about"},{"startTime":1402.167,"endTime":1406.067,"body":"just simply versioning the product"},{"startTime":1402.167,"endTime":1406.067,"body":"and showing a carcass initially"},{"startTime":1406.187,"endTime":1409.487,"body":"with very little software, if"},{"startTime":1406.187,"endTime":1409.487,"body":"any, and building up from there."},{"startTime":1409.637,"endTime":1415.327,"body":"To the final product evolving it really"},{"startTime":1409.637,"endTime":1415.327,"body":"with the customer at your side and"},{"startTime":1415.327,"endTime":1418.307,"body":"not bringing them in periodically just"},{"startTime":1415.327,"endTime":1418.307,"body":"to show them what you've got because"},{"startTime":1418.307,"endTime":1419.627,"body":"that's not really an experience."},{"startTime":1419.687,"endTime":1421.477,"body":"That's a snapshot in time, right?"},{"startTime":1421.787,"endTime":1426.217,"body":"And oftentimes I'm old enough to know"},{"startTime":1421.787,"endTime":1426.217,"body":"what we used to do this at trade shows."},{"startTime":1426.367,"endTime":1430.127,"body":"Where things would break or they'd"},{"startTime":1426.367,"endTime":1430.127,"body":"simply out there and somebody behind"},{"startTime":1430.127,"endTime":1434.267,"body":"the scenes will throw up a screen on"},{"startTime":1430.127,"endTime":1434.267,"body":"your, on your monitor or your projector."},{"startTime":1434.437,"endTime":1435.777,"body":"Ignore the man behind the curtain."},{"startTime":1436.127,"endTime":1437.137,"body":"That's not transparent."},{"startTime":1437.147,"endTime":1438.737,"body":"That's not, that's not"},{"startTime":1437.147,"endTime":1438.737,"body":"what I'm talking about."},{"startTime":1438.737,"endTime":1441.007,"body":"I'm talking about having the"},{"startTime":1438.737,"endTime":1441.007,"body":"customer in throughout the journey."},{"startTime":1441.157,"endTime":1445.207,"body":"The other benefit of doing that"},{"startTime":1441.157,"endTime":1445.207,"body":"is your solution will be aligned"},{"startTime":1445.217,"endTime":1447.947,"body":"to their needs much better because"},{"startTime":1445.217,"endTime":1447.947,"body":"they've been with you the whole time."},{"startTime":1448.097,"endTime":1451.907,"body":"Well, you also have the challenge too"},{"startTime":1448.097,"endTime":1451.907,"body":"in In more of a startup environment that"},{"startTime":1452.057,"endTime":1456.057,"body":"that's how you can, you can work that if"},{"startTime":1452.057,"endTime":1456.057,"body":"you're an existing organization, that's"},{"startTime":1456.057,"endTime":1460.717,"body":"got say 50 years under your belt, already"},{"startTime":1456.057,"endTime":1460.717,"body":"a large install base of your machines of"},{"startTime":1461.067,"endTime":1463.207,"body":"various iterations and versions, right?"},{"startTime":1463.357,"endTime":1465.437,"body":"The lack of I don't want"},{"startTime":1463.357,"endTime":1465.437,"body":"to say discipline, but I"},{"startTime":1465.437,"endTime":1466.767,"body":"can't think of another word."},{"startTime":1466.917,"endTime":1471.847,"body":"The lack of discipline in your product"},{"startTime":1466.917,"endTime":1471.847,"body":"management becomes super apparent yes, you"},{"startTime":1471.847,"endTime":1475.317,"body":"need to approve, like you want to support"},{"startTime":1471.847,"endTime":1475.317,"body":"the customer and what they're doing, but"},{"startTime":1475.317,"endTime":1478.707,"body":"if the customer is running a 30 year old"},{"startTime":1475.317,"endTime":1478.707,"body":"version of your product and you're like,"},{"startTime":1478.707,"endTime":1483.467,"body":"Hey we can't get a lot of those pieces"},{"startTime":1478.707,"endTime":1483.467,"body":"anymore, but you know, if we were to do"},{"startTime":1483.467,"endTime":1484.797,"body":"this in this, would you be interested?"},{"startTime":1485.122,"endTime":1488.952,"body":"And then reaching out to the install base"},{"startTime":1485.122,"endTime":1488.952,"body":"as a whole, gathering that information"},{"startTime":1488.952,"endTime":1490.802,"body":"from your customer and developing that."},{"startTime":1491.062,"endTime":1493.022,"body":"You like this tool, it ran for this long."},{"startTime":1493.172,"endTime":1494.772,"body":"What can we do to make that better?"},{"startTime":1494.942,"endTime":1496.772,"body":"What would make this easier for you?"},{"startTime":1496.922,"endTime":1500.602,"body":"So that we can get you another"},{"startTime":1496.922,"endTime":1500.602,"body":"one that'll run another 25 years."},{"startTime":1500.752,"endTime":1503.742,"body":"And like you said, bringing the"},{"startTime":1500.752,"endTime":1503.742,"body":"customer in on that and, and asking"},{"startTime":1503.742,"endTime":1507.092,"body":"them and bringing them into your,"},{"startTime":1503.742,"endTime":1507.092,"body":"your product management, crucial."},{"startTime":1507.242,"endTime":1508.512,"body":"It's the only way to move forward."},{"startTime":1508.512,"endTime":1512.602,"body":"And if you want to pick up and be"},{"startTime":1508.512,"endTime":1512.602,"body":"exponential growth over five years."},{"startTime":1512.752,"endTime":1515.702,"body":"You're not going to do it by telling the"},{"startTime":1512.752,"endTime":1515.702,"body":"customer yes to absolutely everything"},{"startTime":1515.702,"endTime":1520.162,"body":"you've got you have to say no But what"},{"startTime":1515.702,"endTime":1520.162,"body":"can we do to you know, make that better?"},{"startTime":1520.262,"endTime":1522.612,"body":"I wanna pivot us into a category"},{"startTime":1520.262,"endTime":1522.612,"body":"that a lot of people don't think"},{"startTime":1522.622,"endTime":1524.092,"body":"about in software development."},{"startTime":1524.382,"endTime":1528.462,"body":", but inventory management is interesting"},{"startTime":1524.382,"endTime":1528.462,"body":"when you have a hardware and a software"},{"startTime":1528.462,"endTime":1531.792,"body":"component to your product because"},{"startTime":1528.462,"endTime":1531.792,"body":"When you have a harder component,"},{"startTime":1532.052,"endTime":1533.312,"body":"you have to manage inventory."},{"startTime":1533.312,"endTime":1539.262,"body":"So we, we, we want to sell, like"},{"startTime":1533.312,"endTime":1539.262,"body":"if we're creating a hardware and"},{"startTime":1539.262,"endTime":1542.932,"body":"software product that we're putting"},{"startTime":1539.262,"endTime":1542.932,"body":"on shelves, or that we're shipping"},{"startTime":1542.932,"endTime":1545.122,"body":"out to people that use our software."},{"startTime":1545.272,"endTime":1549.592,"body":"Around the country there's a forecast of"},{"startTime":1545.272,"endTime":1549.592,"body":"how many people will buy it because if"},{"startTime":1549.592,"endTime":1553.162,"body":"we have people that want to buy it and"},{"startTime":1549.592,"endTime":1553.162,"body":"then we can't we can't produce things"},{"startTime":1553.162,"endTime":1556.892,"body":"for another I don't know what the lead"},{"startTime":1553.162,"endTime":1556.892,"body":"time would be like two weeks, three weeks"},{"startTime":1556.892,"endTime":1561.062,"body":"whatever it takes to send a ship across"},{"startTime":1556.892,"endTime":1561.062,"body":"the sea, literally a ship across the sea."},{"startTime":1561.212,"endTime":1561.972,"body":"That's our lead time."},{"startTime":1561.972,"endTime":1564.972,"body":"It's like, oh, we're all out of the,"},{"startTime":1561.972,"endTime":1564.972,"body":"the, the, the things I was talking about"},{"startTime":1564.972,"endTime":1568.042,"body":"that they plug into the truck and they"},{"startTime":1564.972,"endTime":1568.042,"body":"tell you like when you're driving and"},{"startTime":1568.042,"endTime":1571.642,"body":"when you're not,  if we're talking about"},{"startTime":1568.042,"endTime":1571.642,"body":"that and we're completely out of them,"},{"startTime":1571.842,"endTime":1573.742,"body":"oh, I have a carrier that comes on."},{"startTime":1574.082,"endTime":1577.242,"body":"Oh, we want to buy ELD devices from"},{"startTime":1574.082,"endTime":1577.242,"body":"Brian and Om's software company."},{"startTime":1577.392,"endTime":1580.492,"body":"We have a thousand trucks, we need"},{"startTime":1577.392,"endTime":1580.492,"body":"a thousand devices, and Brenham"},{"startTime":1580.492,"endTime":1583.462,"body":"Software Company says well, we only"},{"startTime":1580.492,"endTime":1583.462,"body":"have like, a hundred on the shelf."},{"startTime":1583.702,"endTime":1585.742,"body":"Yeah, yeah, and our ship"},{"startTime":1583.702,"endTime":1585.742,"body":"can't get through the Red Sea."},{"startTime":1586.002,"endTime":1589.802,"body":"And our ship can't get through the Red Sea"},{"startTime":1586.002,"endTime":1589.802,"body":"for another three weeks, or whatever now"},{"startTime":1589.802,"endTime":1594.332,"body":"we're kind of like, oh well like, AR/AP,"},{"startTime":1589.802,"endTime":1594.332,"body":"like we can't, claim any of that money."},{"startTime":1594.482,"endTime":1597.392,"body":"Until a certain amount of time and"},{"startTime":1594.482,"endTime":1597.392,"body":"like, the closer you get to the"},{"startTime":1597.392,"endTime":1599.782,"body":"end of the year, the more hectic"},{"startTime":1597.392,"endTime":1599.782,"body":"it becomes, you know what I mean?"},{"startTime":1599.782,"endTime":1601.832,"body":"Because we want to write that"},{"startTime":1599.782,"endTime":1601.832,"body":"money on this year's budget."},{"startTime":1601.842,"endTime":1602.142,"body":"That's right."},{"startTime":1602.292,"endTime":1605.672,"body":"Anyway, the point is, in normal"},{"startTime":1602.292,"endTime":1605.672,"body":"software development, you don't"},{"startTime":1605.682,"endTime":1607.132,"body":"deal with inventory management."},{"startTime":1607.282,"endTime":1608.162,"body":"No, that's very true."},{"startTime":1608.172,"endTime":1610.682,"body":"So, I'm super interested, like"},{"startTime":1608.172,"endTime":1610.682,"body":"Clint, if you have any experience in"},{"startTime":1610.682,"endTime":1611.962,"body":"dealing with inventory management,"},{"startTime":1611.972,"endTime":1615.722,"body":"well, it ends up being like a"},{"startTime":1611.972,"endTime":1615.722,"body":"significant problem, especially"},{"startTime":1615.722,"endTime":1617.002,"body":"when you're forecasting like you."},{"startTime":1617.152,"endTime":1620.552,"body":"You might have a sale that comes in and"},{"startTime":1617.152,"endTime":1620.552,"body":"it's a significant amount of orders and"},{"startTime":1620.552,"endTime":1622.232,"body":"then something happens with that customer."},{"startTime":1622.382,"endTime":1624.342,"body":"Oh, no, we we can't do this right now."},{"startTime":1624.352,"endTime":1625.592,"body":"We're in a reduction of force."},{"startTime":1625.612,"endTime":1626.492,"body":"We had a bad quarter."},{"startTime":1626.762,"endTime":1628.812,"body":"So we're we're gonna cancel these orders."},{"startTime":1628.962,"endTime":1629.432,"body":"Great."},{"startTime":1629.432,"endTime":1633.472,"body":"I got three million dollars worth of"},{"startTime":1629.432,"endTime":1633.472,"body":"inventory in the warehouse now or you"},{"startTime":1633.472,"endTime":1635.722,"body":"know, then you look at obsolescence too."},{"startTime":1635.872,"endTime":1639.952,"body":"Anytime something changes or a supplier"},{"startTime":1635.872,"endTime":1639.952,"body":"of yours for something you don't make."},{"startTime":1640.102,"endTime":1641.162,"body":"This is obsolete now."},{"startTime":1641.162,"endTime":1641.822,"body":"Okay, good."},{"startTime":1641.822,"endTime":1642.882,"body":"You design a replacement."},{"startTime":1642.882,"endTime":1644.702,"body":"We still have inventory currently."},{"startTime":1644.852,"endTime":1648.292,"body":"And then when you design the"},{"startTime":1644.852,"endTime":1648.292,"body":"replacement, are you designing to"},{"startTime":1648.512,"endTime":1652.092,"body":"eat up the cabling and everything"},{"startTime":1648.512,"endTime":1652.092,"body":"else that supported that device?"},{"startTime":1652.422,"endTime":1653.612,"body":"Or are you switching to something else?"},{"startTime":1653.642,"endTime":1654.872,"body":"Then what do you do with that inventory?"},{"startTime":1655.022,"endTime":1656.192,"body":"Ends up being a big problem."},{"startTime":1656.192,"endTime":1659.222,"body":"Cause you could you're that customer,"},{"startTime":1656.192,"endTime":1659.222,"body":"like I said, cancels and you end"},{"startTime":1659.222,"endTime":1660.602,"body":"up with three to 5 million in."},{"startTime":1660.752,"endTime":1664.292,"body":"Slow moving inventory in the warehouse and"},{"startTime":1660.752,"endTime":1664.292,"body":"that's just money that's sitting there."},{"startTime":1664.442,"endTime":1665.552,"body":"It's not going anywhere."},{"startTime":1665.552,"endTime":1667.212,"body":"Then you can't pay your suppliers."},{"startTime":1667.242,"endTime":1669.042,"body":"Then nothing coming in that you need."},{"startTime":1669.052,"endTime":1670.642,"body":"You can't use the stuff that you have."},{"startTime":1670.792,"endTime":1671.382,"body":"What do you do?"},{"startTime":1671.402,"endTime":1675.732,"body":"I would imagine the easy way out of"},{"startTime":1671.402,"endTime":1675.732,"body":"that is, you just don't put in the"},{"startTime":1675.732,"endTime":1680.312,"body":"order on the hardware side until"},{"startTime":1675.732,"endTime":1680.312,"body":"you've until the AR has shown up."},{"startTime":1680.462,"endTime":1684.412,"body":"You know, until you receive the money"},{"startTime":1680.462,"endTime":1684.412,"body":"for the devices you know, for whatever"},{"startTime":1684.412,"endTime":1685.902,"body":"you're producing for the parts, basically."},{"startTime":1685.982,"endTime":1689.122,"body":"Presumably you're taking something"},{"startTime":1685.982,"endTime":1689.122,"body":"from the customer to begin with"},{"startTime":1689.332,"endTime":1691.342,"body":"instead of pay later right at the end."},{"startTime":1691.492,"endTime":1691.712,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":1691.712,"endTime":1693.162,"body":"So that should help a little bit."},{"startTime":1693.192,"endTime":1697.562,"body":"If you have other customers that use the"},{"startTime":1693.192,"endTime":1697.562,"body":"same, consume the same things, there's a"},{"startTime":1697.562,"endTime":1699.312,"body":"little outlet there you can start selling."},{"startTime":1699.502,"endTime":1699.712,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":1699.782,"endTime":1703.417,"body":"I've seen strategies like You know, tell"},{"startTime":1699.782,"endTime":1703.417,"body":"the customer, Hey, look we're going to"},{"startTime":1703.477,"endTime":1707.357,"body":"reduce the price substantially to make"},{"startTime":1703.477,"endTime":1707.357,"body":"it viable for you to buy this, even"},{"startTime":1707.357,"endTime":1708.697,"body":"though you're going through bad times."},{"startTime":1708.847,"endTime":1713.627,"body":"And then the worst case scenario is we're"},{"startTime":1708.847,"endTime":1713.627,"body":"not going to let that stuff sit on the"},{"startTime":1713.627,"endTime":1715.597,"body":"shelf for more than X number of days."},{"startTime":1715.747,"endTime":1717.207,"body":"We're just going to throw it away."},{"startTime":1717.247,"endTime":1718.677,"body":"We'll, we'll, we'll write it off."},{"startTime":1718.827,"endTime":1719.127,"body":"Right."},{"startTime":1719.207,"endTime":1720.037,"body":"I've seen that too."},{"startTime":1720.167,"endTime":1720.437,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":1720.587,"endTime":1720.847,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":1720.977,"endTime":1722.037,"body":"Companies do that too."},{"startTime":1722.037,"endTime":1725.677,"body":"They write it off, which isn't seen"},{"startTime":1722.037,"endTime":1725.677,"body":"very isn't seen much in software"},{"startTime":1725.677,"endTime":1727.517,"body":"development companies writing off."},{"startTime":1727.667,"endTime":1728.387,"body":"Inventory."},{"startTime":1728.537,"endTime":1728.867,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":1728.957,"endTime":1729.677,"body":"Yeah, that's true."},{"startTime":1729.827,"endTime":1731.652,"body":"' cause you don't really"},{"startTime":1729.827,"endTime":1731.652,"body":"have physical cost, right?"},{"startTime":1731.652,"endTime":1731.852,"body":"No."},{"startTime":1731.852,"endTime":1731.932,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":1731.932,"endTime":1733.967,"body":"For, for, I mean, you don't"},{"startTime":1731.932,"endTime":1733.967,"body":"have physical storage."},{"startTime":1733.967,"endTime":1734.927,"body":"That's, you know."},{"startTime":1735.107,"endTime":1735.407,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":1735.412,"endTime":1736.667,"body":"It's, it's accruing cost."},{"startTime":1736.697,"endTime":1739.797,"body":"All of this also relies on a steady"},{"startTime":1736.697,"endTime":1739.797,"body":"stream of information that not a lot of"},{"startTime":1739.847,"endTime":1741.967,"body":"manufacturing companies have right now."},{"startTime":1742.117,"endTime":1744.677,"body":"Right Ford and major automakers"},{"startTime":1742.117,"endTime":1744.677,"body":"and things will have that."},{"startTime":1744.677,"endTime":1746.237,"body":"They'll be able to tell"},{"startTime":1744.677,"endTime":1746.237,"body":"you down to the screw."},{"startTime":1746.387,"endTime":1749.097,"body":"Like what their consumption is"},{"startTime":1746.387,"endTime":1749.097,"body":"a lot of the smaller companies"},{"startTime":1749.097,"endTime":1750.807,"body":"won't, won't have that necessarily."},{"startTime":1750.957,"endTime":1753.307,"body":"And then if you don't have"},{"startTime":1750.957,"endTime":1753.307,"body":"that information, you can't"},{"startTime":1753.307,"endTime":1754.497,"body":"see how are you supposed to be?"},{"startTime":1754.497,"endTime":1757.477,"body":"You're just locked in a room in the"},{"startTime":1754.497,"endTime":1757.477,"body":"dark and hoping you don't hit a table."},{"startTime":1757.627,"endTime":1760.637,"body":"So getting the infrastructure and just"},{"startTime":1757.627,"endTime":1760.637,"body":"recognizing that there's a problem"},{"startTime":1760.787,"endTime":1762.817,"body":"instead of moseying through delusion."},{"startTime":1762.967,"endTime":1764.027,"body":"Of, oh, we'll make it."},{"startTime":1764.177,"endTime":1764.567,"body":"We'll make it."},{"startTime":1764.577,"endTime":1765.057,"body":"We're gonna make it."},{"startTime":1765.067,"endTime":1765.837,"body":"We always make it."},{"startTime":1765.857,"endTime":1766.267,"body":"You're happy to speak."},{"startTime":1766.417,"endTime":1766.737,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":1766.887,"endTime":1770.177,"body":"Recognizing that there's a problem, trying"},{"startTime":1766.887,"endTime":1770.177,"body":"to bring visibility to it, and pushing a"},{"startTime":1770.177,"endTime":1775.147,"body":"concentrated effort towards, let's resolve"},{"startTime":1770.177,"endTime":1775.147,"body":"this, rather than smacking feet trying"},{"startTime":1775.147,"endTime":1778.137,"body":"to get everybody to go and you recognize"},{"startTime":1775.147,"endTime":1778.137,"body":"that there's a problem and you move on"},{"startTime":1778.137,"endTime":1781.927,"body":"it quickly, so you can get your sales"},{"startTime":1778.137,"endTime":1781.927,"body":"team out and This is the, these are the"},{"startTime":1781.927,"endTime":1785.867,"body":"components we can make, these are the"},{"startTime":1781.927,"endTime":1785.867,"body":"products we can make, this is how many go."},{"startTime":1786.017,"endTime":1789.257,"body":"And then you usher your sales team out"},{"startTime":1786.017,"endTime":1789.257,"body":"into the world and hopefully they're good"},{"startTime":1789.257,"endTime":1790.857,"body":"enough to sell at least a portion of it."},{"startTime":1791.007,"endTime":1792.527,"body":"And then that eliminates"},{"startTime":1791.007,"endTime":1792.527,"body":"part of the problem."},{"startTime":1792.677,"endTime":1796.167,"body":"Or you spin up an eBay store and start"},{"startTime":1792.677,"endTime":1796.167,"body":"selling parts that way if you need to."},{"startTime":1796.377,"endTime":1799.897,"body":"Well that's another strategy is to sell"},{"startTime":1796.377,"endTime":1799.897,"body":"en masse, right, at a reduced cost."},{"startTime":1800.047,"endTime":1804.897,"body":"If you're really smart about how you're"},{"startTime":1800.047,"endTime":1804.897,"body":"designing your product, presumably you've"},{"startTime":1804.917,"endTime":1809.837,"body":"got modular components that can be reused"},{"startTime":1804.917,"endTime":1809.837,"body":"in different models or different products."},{"startTime":1809.997,"endTime":1813.987,"body":"That, that's the best, I guess the nearest"},{"startTime":1809.997,"endTime":1813.987,"body":"to salvaging this situation, right?"},{"startTime":1814.137,"endTime":1816.857,"body":"It's not a total waste, you can"},{"startTime":1814.137,"endTime":1816.857,"body":"still use it in something else."},{"startTime":1816.857,"endTime":1822.077,"body":"It's also, again, being able to see"},{"startTime":1816.857,"endTime":1822.077,"body":"what things are actually costing you."},{"startTime":1822.327,"endTime":1827.057,"body":"If all you have is It costs me, I sell it"},{"startTime":1822.327,"endTime":1827.057,"body":"for this much and the components are this"},{"startTime":1827.057,"endTime":1832.127,"body":"much, and you're not, you don't have full"},{"startTime":1827.057,"endTime":1832.127,"body":"visibility of, this is how much it, it"},{"startTime":1832.157,"endTime":1836.987,"body":"takes to build this tool from purchasing"},{"startTime":1832.157,"endTime":1836.987,"body":"the components to assembly, this is how"},{"startTime":1836.987,"endTime":1839.907,"body":"much it costs me to assembly, this is"},{"startTime":1836.987,"endTime":1839.907,"body":"how much it costs me in testing, this is"},{"startTime":1839.907,"endTime":1843.397,"body":"how much it costs me to QA, and you have"},{"startTime":1839.907,"endTime":1843.397,"body":"that full visibility, because then you"},{"startTime":1843.397,"endTime":1846.427,"body":"can turn out the individual components"},{"startTime":1843.397,"endTime":1846.427,"body":"and start calling people, hey do you want"},{"startTime":1846.427,"endTime":1849.867,"body":"a couple of these sitting on your shelf"},{"startTime":1846.427,"endTime":1849.867,"body":"in case, You go down, it can keep it up."},{"startTime":1850.017,"endTime":1853.367,"body":"And then again, in the, in the"},{"startTime":1850.017,"endTime":1853.367,"body":"information, have an information ready."},{"startTime":1853.367,"endTime":1857.007,"body":"You, you should be able to see what"},{"startTime":1853.367,"endTime":1857.007,"body":"problems, and if you're communicating"},{"startTime":1857.007,"endTime":1859.997,"body":"with your customers properly, like"},{"startTime":1857.007,"endTime":1859.997,"body":"you would be in an agile organization."},{"startTime":1860.147,"endTime":1861.437,"body":"What problems have you had?"},{"startTime":1861.677,"endTime":1865.847,"body":"Can we, can we sell you a few things"},{"startTime":1861.677,"endTime":1865.847,"body":"so that we can get a tech there"},{"startTime":1865.847,"endTime":1869.407,"body":"and instantly throw this, this"},{"startTime":1865.847,"endTime":1869.407,"body":"component on, bring your line back up."},{"startTime":1869.557,"endTime":1872.967,"body":"And then we'll replace it after where"},{"startTime":1869.557,"endTime":1872.967,"body":"you get that components that mailed"},{"startTime":1872.967,"endTime":1875.947,"body":"back so we could do a failure analysis"},{"startTime":1872.967,"endTime":1875.947,"body":"on it and figure out what's going on."},{"startTime":1876.267,"endTime":1881.857,"body":"It's all part of a fully, fully integrated"},{"startTime":1876.267,"endTime":1881.857,"body":"agile organization that moves as one"},{"startTime":1882.007,"endTime":1883.857,"body":"instead of your legs fighting your hand."},{"startTime":1884.007,"endTime":1885.997,"body":"I have an example I can share around that."},{"startTime":1886.067,"endTime":1888.157,"body":"A company that makes CAT scan machines."},{"startTime":1888.307,"endTime":1891.997,"body":"They actually have, a lot, a lot of"},{"startTime":1888.307,"endTime":1891.997,"body":"times, they actually have their reps"},{"startTime":1892.107,"endTime":1896.397,"body":"embedded in large research hospitals"},{"startTime":1892.107,"endTime":1896.397,"body":"or other health institutions like that."},{"startTime":1896.547,"endTime":1899.497,"body":"And the reason is they can see"},{"startTime":1896.547,"endTime":1899.497,"body":"first hand what the problems are."},{"startTime":1899.647,"endTime":1903.797,"body":"So if you're selling a CAT scan machine"},{"startTime":1899.647,"endTime":1903.797,"body":"and the machine is capable of doing"},{"startTime":1903.797,"endTime":1905.467,"body":"all of these different types of scans."},{"startTime":1905.617,"endTime":1909.187,"body":"Lo and behold, there comes a, an"},{"startTime":1905.617,"endTime":1909.187,"body":"opportunity one day when they're"},{"startTime":1909.187,"endTime":1912.937,"body":"trying to do a scan that your machine"},{"startTime":1909.187,"endTime":1912.937,"body":"doesn't have the capability to do."},{"startTime":1913.087,"endTime":1913.417,"body":"Right."},{"startTime":1913.737,"endTime":1915.017,"body":"So what do you do in that case?"},{"startTime":1915.127,"endTime":1918.827,"body":"Well, most of this stuff is not"},{"startTime":1915.127,"endTime":1918.827,"body":"necessarily changes to the hardware."},{"startTime":1918.827,"endTime":1924.347,"body":"It's mainly the software and how, how"},{"startTime":1918.827,"endTime":1924.347,"body":"you move in what intensity of radiation."},{"startTime":1924.407,"endTime":1924.747,"body":"Right."},{"startTime":1925.077,"endTime":1929.772,"body":"So if you could sense the need That"},{"startTime":1925.077,"endTime":1929.772,"body":"is not currently met by your product."},{"startTime":1929.922,"endTime":1932.152,"body":"You can go back to base,"},{"startTime":1929.922,"endTime":1932.152,"body":"back to your company and say,"},{"startTime":1932.172,"endTime":1933.682,"body":"this is what we need, right?"},{"startTime":1933.732,"endTime":1937.502,"body":"And there are experts that get involved,"},{"startTime":1933.732,"endTime":1937.502,"body":"and they can quickly give you the"},{"startTime":1937.502,"endTime":1940.802,"body":"software that does the scan that's needed."},{"startTime":1940.952,"endTime":1944.892,"body":"And that person is on site, can install"},{"startTime":1940.952,"endTime":1944.892,"body":"it, or it can be installed remotely,"},{"startTime":1945.202,"endTime":1949.392,"body":"and whoever the health professional that"},{"startTime":1945.202,"endTime":1949.392,"body":"needs it can have that scan quickly."},{"startTime":1949.542,"endTime":1953.682,"body":"That, that's an example of how you"},{"startTime":1949.542,"endTime":1953.682,"body":"shorten this by, we talk about bringing"},{"startTime":1953.682,"endTime":1955.122,"body":"the customer into your organization."},{"startTime":1955.272,"endTime":1958.772,"body":"What they've done is they've gone into the"},{"startTime":1955.272,"endTime":1958.772,"body":"customer's environment to see first hand."},{"startTime":1958.922,"endTime":1962.552,"body":"Which is easier to do in software"},{"startTime":1958.922,"endTime":1962.552,"body":"than hardware, but still possible."},{"startTime":1962.702,"endTime":1965.812,"body":"If you can't bring the customer into"},{"startTime":1962.702,"endTime":1965.812,"body":"your organization, because there"},{"startTime":1965.812,"endTime":1969.012,"body":"might be various reasons why you don't"},{"startTime":1965.812,"endTime":1969.012,"body":"want to be fully transparent, right?"},{"startTime":1969.052,"endTime":1970.892,"body":"And that's okay, in some instances."},{"startTime":1971.042,"endTime":1972.492,"body":"Um, be the customer."},{"startTime":1972.727,"endTime":1976.407,"body":"Like you said, go to them, see what"},{"startTime":1972.727,"endTime":1976.407,"body":"they're doing, ask what their issues are."},{"startTime":1976.557,"endTime":1977.637,"body":"What are you trying to do?"},{"startTime":1977.787,"endTime":1979.847,"body":"What can you tell me about"},{"startTime":1977.787,"endTime":1979.847,"body":"where you guys are trying to go?"},{"startTime":1979.997,"endTime":1981.197,"body":"Oh, we have this for that."},{"startTime":1981.417,"endTime":1983.677,"body":"See what they're missing"},{"startTime":1981.417,"endTime":1983.677,"body":"and move towards that."},{"startTime":1983.847,"endTime":1987.077,"body":"Because then you're developing for"},{"startTime":1983.847,"endTime":1987.077,"body":"something that's there instead of"},{"startTime":1987.077,"endTime":1990.117,"body":"something that you perceive to be there"},{"startTime":1987.077,"endTime":1990.117,"body":"maybe sometime down the road eventually."},{"startTime":1990.127,"endTime":1990.747,"body":"Well, exactly."},{"startTime":1990.767,"endTime":1993.687,"body":"So you're not developing something"},{"startTime":1990.767,"endTime":1993.687,"body":"in the vain hope that someone's"},{"startTime":1993.687,"endTime":1995.237,"body":"going to need that one day, right?"},{"startTime":1995.247,"endTime":1996.427,"body":"Or they may need it one day."},{"startTime":1996.632,"endTime":1999.102,"body":"You're actually fulfilling a"},{"startTime":1996.632,"endTime":1999.102,"body":"real need that you validate."},{"startTime":1999.252,"endTime":2001.152,"body":"And then it's not just"},{"startTime":1999.252,"endTime":2001.152,"body":"in manufacturing too."},{"startTime":2001.152,"endTime":2005.472,"body":"It's not just trying to get organizations"},{"startTime":2001.152,"endTime":2005.472,"body":"to understand this too, is the customers"},{"startTime":2005.472,"endTime":2007.302,"body":"aren't only outside the company."},{"startTime":2007.452,"endTime":2008.272,"body":"You've inside too."},{"startTime":2008.412,"endTime":2008.682,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":2008.832,"endTime":2009.042,"body":"Right."},{"startTime":2009.042,"endTime":2012.702,"body":"So every section of that team,"},{"startTime":2009.042,"endTime":2012.702,"body":"every section of that organization"},{"startTime":2012.852,"endTime":2016.912,"body":"has to work together and be brought"},{"startTime":2012.852,"endTime":2016.912,"body":"in on what the others are doing."},{"startTime":2017.062,"endTime":2017.342,"body":"All right."},{"startTime":2017.342,"endTime":2018.622,"body":"That's how you get transparency."},{"startTime":2018.922,"endTime":2019.792,"body":"That's how you build trust."},{"startTime":2019.942,"endTime":2023.532,"body":"Like you want to make sure that"},{"startTime":2019.942,"endTime":2023.532,"body":"everybody's acting and everybody else's"},{"startTime":2023.692,"endTime":2026.882,"body":"self interest and that's the only way"},{"startTime":2023.692,"endTime":2026.882,"body":"you're going to move forward quickly So"},{"startTime":2026.892,"endTime":2030.662,"body":"you want to you want to know what your"},{"startTime":2026.892,"endTime":2030.662,"body":"customer needs so in manufacturing, right?"},{"startTime":2030.662,"endTime":2034.152,"body":"It's it's easy to hire people in off"},{"startTime":2030.662,"endTime":2034.152,"body":"the street that don't know anything"},{"startTime":2034.152,"endTime":2037.922,"body":"about what you do really But they have"},{"startTime":2034.152,"endTime":2037.922,"body":"the qualifications on paper and they"},{"startTime":2037.922,"endTime":2042.412,"body":"sound like they know but eventually that"},{"startTime":2037.922,"endTime":2042.412,"body":"person needs to go and and do what's"},{"startTime":2042.422,"endTime":2047.682,"body":"being done to know what what's going on"},{"startTime":2042.422,"endTime":2047.682,"body":"because they're That's a customer aspect."},{"startTime":2047.832,"endTime":2050.342,"body":"So you still have if you're an"},{"startTime":2047.832,"endTime":2050.342,"body":"engineer and you're putting a tool"},{"startTime":2050.392,"endTime":2053.622,"body":"you're designing pieces to a tool,"},{"startTime":2050.392,"endTime":2053.622,"body":"but you don't go build the tool."},{"startTime":2053.772,"endTime":2054.082,"body":"Right."},{"startTime":2054.232,"endTime":2055.372,"body":"What could, okay, great."},{"startTime":2055.412,"endTime":2058.242,"body":"I can, well, you could build this"},{"startTime":2055.412,"endTime":2058.242,"body":"tool eventually, but if you, if"},{"startTime":2058.242,"endTime":2060.822,"body":"you get called out to the, to a"},{"startTime":2058.242,"endTime":2060.822,"body":"manufacturing floor and the tech is"},{"startTime":2060.822,"endTime":2061.982,"body":"like, how do I put this together?"},{"startTime":2062.132,"endTime":2062.712,"body":"Well, what do you mean?"},{"startTime":2062.822,"endTime":2065.572,"body":"Well, if I put this piece on"},{"startTime":2062.822,"endTime":2065.572,"body":"first, I can't get to this screw."},{"startTime":2065.722,"endTime":2067.982,"body":"And if I put this piece on"},{"startTime":2065.722,"endTime":2067.982,"body":"first, I can't put this piece on."},{"startTime":2068.132,"endTime":2069.092,"body":"How am I supposed to do this?"},{"startTime":2069.212,"endTime":2070.422,"body":"Oh, just, it'll fit."},{"startTime":2070.552,"endTime":2071.002,"body":"Don't worry about it."},{"startTime":2071.272,"endTime":2072.432,"body":"That's the way it's always been."},{"startTime":2072.432,"endTime":2073.512,"body":"We've always managed to do that."},{"startTime":2073.662,"endTime":2074.052,"body":"Great."},{"startTime":2074.062,"endTime":2076.462,"body":"It's going to take me two days"},{"startTime":2074.062,"endTime":2076.462,"body":"to get this fully together."},{"startTime":2076.802,"endTime":2078.602,"body":"Whereas you can make a couple of changes."},{"startTime":2078.662,"endTime":2081.572,"body":"It's not going to cost us"},{"startTime":2078.662,"endTime":2081.572,"body":"any more or, or very minimal."},{"startTime":2081.612,"endTime":2085.482,"body":"And then we save probably six, eight"},{"startTime":2081.612,"endTime":2085.482,"body":"hours on me putting this thing together."},{"startTime":2085.632,"endTime":2086.982,"body":"That's, that's more in line."},{"startTime":2086.992,"endTime":2091.872,"body":"That's where you're starting to get into"},{"startTime":2086.992,"endTime":2091.872,"body":"one fluid motion in an agile organization."},{"startTime":2092.022,"endTime":2094.782,"body":"Yeah, I think you've touched on"},{"startTime":2092.022,"endTime":2094.782,"body":"the integration challenges, right?"},{"startTime":2094.842,"endTime":2096.112,"body":"Within different modules."},{"startTime":2096.112,"endTime":2098.262,"body":"I mean, you've got those in"},{"startTime":2096.112,"endTime":2098.262,"body":"hardware, as you illustrated."},{"startTime":2098.302,"endTime":2101.522,"body":"You've also got those with the"},{"startTime":2098.302,"endTime":2101.522,"body":"overall machine that's using hardware,"},{"startTime":2101.522,"endTime":2103.012,"body":"but it's also using software."},{"startTime":2103.152,"endTime":2103.442,"body":"Right?"},{"startTime":2103.482,"endTime":2106.832,"body":"And the challenges are The"},{"startTime":2103.482,"endTime":2106.832,"body":"software, I think we mentioned this"},{"startTime":2106.832,"endTime":2109.622,"body":"earlier, the software team is on a"},{"startTime":2106.832,"endTime":2109.622,"body":"different cadence and the hardware"},{"startTime":2109.622,"endTime":2110.692,"body":"team is on a different cadence."},{"startTime":2110.712,"endTime":2113.082,"body":"So at what point do you"},{"startTime":2110.712,"endTime":2113.082,"body":"bring that together and what"},{"startTime":2113.082,"endTime":2114.592,"body":"is that core functionality?"},{"startTime":2114.742,"endTime":2118.502,"body":"And then, if you've got customer in,"},{"startTime":2114.742,"endTime":2118.502,"body":"you've got to show them that, right?"},{"startTime":2118.822,"endTime":2121.072,"body":"At the same time you're"},{"startTime":2118.822,"endTime":2121.072,"body":"doing that, hardware people"},{"startTime":2121.072,"endTime":2121.942,"body":"are already building stuff."},{"startTime":2122.092,"endTime":2122.512,"body":"Ahead."},{"startTime":2122.792,"endTime":2124.252,"body":"Software people are writing ahead."},{"startTime":2124.402,"endTime":2126.022,"body":"So, how do you do this?"},{"startTime":2126.062,"endTime":2127.822,"body":"That's the delicate challenge we have."},{"startTime":2127.972,"endTime":2132.342,"body":"I don't see that as, it's not"},{"startTime":2127.972,"endTime":2132.342,"body":"like an existential problem."},{"startTime":2132.492,"endTime":2135.642,"body":"It's just your hardware people"},{"startTime":2132.492,"endTime":2135.642,"body":"and your software people"},{"startTime":2135.642,"endTime":2136.542,"body":"are on a different cadence."},{"startTime":2136.802,"endTime":2140.502,"body":"Just like if you had multiple"},{"startTime":2136.802,"endTime":2140.502,"body":"software teams on different cadences."},{"startTime":2140.762,"endTime":2143.252,"body":"Well, what I'm saying is, yeah,"},{"startTime":2140.762,"endTime":2143.252,"body":"so in the software world, multiple"},{"startTime":2143.252,"endTime":2145.062,"body":"teams can collaborate in that way."},{"startTime":2145.342,"endTime":2147.952,"body":"It's their, all the teams are"},{"startTime":2145.342,"endTime":2147.952,"body":"building software at that point."},{"startTime":2148.102,"endTime":2150.272,"body":"You've got hardware teams,"},{"startTime":2148.102,"endTime":2150.272,"body":"you've got software teams."},{"startTime":2150.362,"endTime":2150.542,"body":"Mm hmm."},{"startTime":2150.552,"endTime":2152.622,"body":"And they have different considerations."},{"startTime":2152.772,"endTime":2156.952,"body":"So for them to work together"},{"startTime":2152.772,"endTime":2156.952,"body":"towards, you know the delivery"},{"startTime":2156.952,"endTime":2158.812,"body":"of a given stage of the product."},{"startTime":2158.962,"endTime":2158.982,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":2159.132,"endTime":2161.452,"body":"That requires a lot of"},{"startTime":2159.132,"endTime":2161.452,"body":"close collaboration."},{"startTime":2161.552,"endTime":2161.772,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":2162.072,"endTime":2162.552,"body":"And."},{"startTime":2162.702,"endTime":2165.192,"body":"Also requires an understanding,"},{"startTime":2162.702,"endTime":2165.192,"body":"or at least an appreciation"},{"startTime":2165.192,"endTime":2166.717,"body":"of The other side, right?"},{"startTime":2166.717,"endTime":2170.127,"body":"So people that are building software"},{"startTime":2166.717,"endTime":2170.127,"body":"need to understand some of, some of"},{"startTime":2170.147,"endTime":2173.267,"body":"the stuff that's happening here in"},{"startTime":2170.147,"endTime":2173.267,"body":"the hardware side and vice versa."},{"startTime":2173.517,"endTime":2175.907,"body":"I'm just not sure if if"},{"startTime":2173.517,"endTime":2175.907,"body":"that's prevalent out there."},{"startTime":2176.057,"endTime":2179.827,"body":"That's a, it's a, it's another thing that"},{"startTime":2176.057,"endTime":2179.827,"body":"goes back to when you're looking at taking"},{"startTime":2179.827,"endTime":2184.627,"body":"your organization to agile, what scale do"},{"startTime":2179.827,"endTime":2184.627,"body":"you want to do that cross functionality?"},{"startTime":2184.777,"endTime":2185.377,"body":"Because."},{"startTime":2185.527,"endTime":2188.957,"body":"It's really easy to say, Oh, engineering"},{"startTime":2185.527,"endTime":2188.957,"body":"team is going to be this way."},{"startTime":2189.087,"endTime":2191.277,"body":"They're going to use kanban, right?"},{"startTime":2191.347,"endTime":2192.617,"body":"Planning team is going to be used kanban."},{"startTime":2192.637,"endTime":2194.897,"body":"Manufacturing is going to use scrub and"},{"startTime":2192.637,"endTime":2194.897,"body":"we're going to do this, this and this."},{"startTime":2195.047,"endTime":2197.417,"body":"Or have your team all the way through."},{"startTime":2197.577,"endTime":2200.657,"body":"It's like, are you going to horizontally"},{"startTime":2197.577,"endTime":2200.657,"body":"slice or are you going to vertical, right?"},{"startTime":2200.967,"endTime":2204.487,"body":"Do you want to be able to deliver"},{"startTime":2200.967,"endTime":2204.487,"body":"one product line really well?"},{"startTime":2204.767,"endTime":2208.092,"body":"Or do you want to be able to be You"},{"startTime":2204.767,"endTime":2208.092,"body":"know, fully cross functional and be"},{"startTime":2208.092,"endTime":2210.942,"body":"able to manufacture everything, but"},{"startTime":2208.092,"endTime":2210.942,"body":"everything kind of goes through its,"},{"startTime":2211.022,"endTime":2214.232,"body":"its individual filters when you're"},{"startTime":2211.022,"endTime":2214.232,"body":"maximizing dependencies at that point."},{"startTime":2214.382,"endTime":2217.062,"body":"So if you get that, if you get"},{"startTime":2214.382,"endTime":2217.062,"body":"that cross functionality built"},{"startTime":2217.062,"endTime":2220.022,"body":"into your organization, those,"},{"startTime":2217.062,"endTime":2220.022,"body":"those the conversations that"},{"startTime":2220.022,"endTime":2223.502,"body":"you need to have you develop a"},{"startTime":2220.022,"endTime":2223.502,"body":"solution, that fits your business"},{"startTime":2223.502,"endTime":2225.192,"body":"and the structure of your product."},{"startTime":2225.237,"endTime":2228.647,"body":"The structure where you're trying to"},{"startTime":2225.237,"endTime":2228.647,"body":"go, your customer, those all need to be"},{"startTime":2228.647,"endTime":2232.537,"body":"looked at and you need to adapt instead"},{"startTime":2228.647,"endTime":2232.537,"body":"of trying to shove yourself into a box."},{"startTime":2232.687,"endTime":2237.157,"body":"And if you have that cross functionality,"},{"startTime":2232.687,"endTime":2237.157,"body":"then it goes with that understanding too."},{"startTime":2237.157,"endTime":2240.697,"body":"And I seen that when, when trying"},{"startTime":2237.157,"endTime":2240.697,"body":"to do it in our organization was."},{"startTime":2240.847,"endTime":2242.277,"body":"Sometimes they just don't care."},{"startTime":2242.427,"endTime":2245.837,"body":"You don't think as the person of,"},{"startTime":2242.427,"endTime":2245.837,"body":"you've had so many problems with"},{"startTime":2245.837,"endTime":2249.337,"body":"trying to get your job done because"},{"startTime":2245.837,"endTime":2249.337,"body":"this guy is doing things that only"},{"startTime":2249.337,"endTime":2253.147,"body":"matter to him and then you try to align"},{"startTime":2249.337,"endTime":2253.147,"body":"and your priorities don't line up."},{"startTime":2253.217,"endTime":2256.357,"body":"They, they don't care about something"},{"startTime":2253.217,"endTime":2256.357,"body":"that your hair is on fire for and"},{"startTime":2256.367,"endTime":2258.817,"body":"you don't care about something"},{"startTime":2256.367,"endTime":2258.817,"body":"that their hair is on fire for."},{"startTime":2258.967,"endTime":2261.577,"body":"But if you both just took the"},{"startTime":2258.967,"endTime":2261.577,"body":"time to put each other's hair out,"},{"startTime":2261.577,"endTime":2263.317,"body":"like , nobody's on fire at that point."},{"startTime":2263.467,"endTime":2266.047,"body":"fire the guy that's setting"},{"startTime":2263.467,"endTime":2266.047,"body":"fire to the hair, that, that's"},{"startTime":2266.052,"endTime":2268.537,"body":"what leads to the integration"},{"startTime":2266.052,"endTime":2268.537,"body":"challenges that I was talking about."},{"startTime":2268.537,"endTime":2268.897,"body":"Right Home."},{"startTime":2268.897,"endTime":2269.947,"body":"Never has to worry about it."},{"startTime":2269.972,"endTime":2271.392,"body":"Oh, I never have a bad hair day."},{"startTime":2271.452,"endTime":2271.632,"body":"Never."},{"startTime":2271.782,"endTime":2272.232,"body":"He beat us."},{"startTime":2272.262,"endTime":2273.822,"body":"He reduced his dependencies."},{"startTime":2273.822,"endTime":2274.152,"body":"I did."},{"startTime":2274.222,"endTime":2278.122,"body":"I am totally ready to pivot us into the"},{"startTime":2274.222,"endTime":2278.122,"body":"category that I'm super excited to talk"},{"startTime":2278.122,"endTime":2280.132,"body":"about the whole time, which is quality."},{"startTime":2280.282,"endTime":2280.842,"body":"Oh boy."},{"startTime":2280.902,"endTime":2283.962,"body":"Which is QA and QC."},{"startTime":2283.962,"endTime":2285.772,"body":"QA and QC, both."},{"startTime":2285.972,"endTime":2286.162,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":2286.212,"endTime":2291.732,"body":"The issue with quality with regard to"},{"startTime":2286.212,"endTime":2291.732,"body":"software is already hard enough and now"},{"startTime":2291.842,"endTime":2294.632,"body":"we're introducing hardware into the mix."},{"startTime":2294.782,"endTime":2298.522,"body":"I can only imagine this"},{"startTime":2294.782,"endTime":2298.522,"body":"plagues literally everybody."},{"startTime":2298.612,"endTime":2299.362,"body":"Quality."},{"startTime":2299.512,"endTime":2301.192,"body":"Yeah, you're only gonna"},{"startTime":2299.512,"endTime":2301.192,"body":"miss it if it's not there."},{"startTime":2301.512,"endTime":2302.582,"body":"No, absolutely, look."},{"startTime":2302.732,"endTime":2305.612,"body":"As you said, it's hard"},{"startTime":2302.732,"endTime":2305.612,"body":"enough with software, right?"},{"startTime":2305.892,"endTime":2308.642,"body":"And it's hard enough"},{"startTime":2305.892,"endTime":2308.642,"body":"with just hardware also."},{"startTime":2308.787,"endTime":2311.617,"body":"So when you combine them, it's"},{"startTime":2308.787,"endTime":2311.617,"body":"not the it's not times two."},{"startTime":2311.737,"endTime":2312.737,"body":"I think it's much worse."},{"startTime":2312.887,"endTime":2315.677,"body":"We were blessed with really"},{"startTime":2312.887,"endTime":2315.677,"body":"having a software team that"},{"startTime":2315.677,"endTime":2317.347,"body":"was really on top of it."},{"startTime":2317.497,"endTime":2321.517,"body":"They could turn really quickly, but we had"},{"startTime":2317.497,"endTime":2321.517,"body":"like, I think I've told you guys earlier,"},{"startTime":2321.517,"endTime":2325.372,"body":"like we had a senior developer, leading"},{"startTime":2321.517,"endTime":2325.372,"body":"senior developers who were all capable of."},{"startTime":2325.522,"endTime":2328.972,"body":"Fixing their own problems on their"},{"startTime":2325.522,"endTime":2328.972,"body":"platform and then collaborating"},{"startTime":2328.982,"endTime":2332.822,"body":"with each other if they intersected"},{"startTime":2328.982,"endTime":2332.822,"body":"so they they had that discipline"},{"startTime":2332.832,"endTime":2336.622,"body":"that collaboration Everything was"},{"startTime":2332.832,"endTime":2336.622,"body":"everything was good the hardware side."},{"startTime":2336.772,"endTime":2342.155,"body":"Oh boy the way we were planning"},{"startTime":2336.772,"endTime":2342.155,"body":"to manage quality because it"},{"startTime":2342.155,"endTime":2344.875,"body":"goes with that definition of done"},{"startTime":2342.155,"endTime":2344.875,"body":"right and What do you want to be?"},{"startTime":2344.895,"endTime":2347.815,"body":"You want to be able to deliver"},{"startTime":2344.895,"endTime":2347.815,"body":"something that'll function on its own."},{"startTime":2347.825,"endTime":2350.705,"body":"And in manufacturing, that could"},{"startTime":2347.825,"endTime":2350.705,"body":"be as small as one component."},{"startTime":2350.855,"endTime":2352.305,"body":"It could be as large as a whole system."},{"startTime":2352.455,"endTime":2357.345,"body":"But, when you cut it down to size, this"},{"startTime":2352.455,"endTime":2357.345,"body":"one component has to be able to go, go to"},{"startTime":2357.345,"endTime":2360.515,"body":"the customer and do what it needs to do,"},{"startTime":2357.345,"endTime":2360.515,"body":"and you don't want it to have a long setup"},{"startTime":2360.515,"endTime":2363.455,"body":"time, and you don't want it to break, and"},{"startTime":2360.515,"endTime":2363.455,"body":"you want to make sure everything's good."},{"startTime":2363.605,"endTime":2366.015,"body":"So your testing, before"},{"startTime":2363.605,"endTime":2366.015,"body":"at least, has to be solid."},{"startTime":2366.165,"endTime":2370.115,"body":"And, anything that happens in the"},{"startTime":2366.165,"endTime":2370.115,"body":"field that's weird, or one off, or"},{"startTime":2370.115,"endTime":2374.005,"body":"anything like that needs to be recorded"},{"startTime":2370.115,"endTime":2374.005,"body":"and investigated but it's clearly"},{"startTime":2374.005,"endTime":2378.725,"body":"defining, and having the whole team"},{"startTime":2374.005,"endTime":2378.725,"body":"agree upon, this is what done means."},{"startTime":2378.875,"endTime":2380.495,"body":"This is And you have to stick to it."},{"startTime":2380.505,"endTime":2383.215,"body":"You can't, well, revenue is going"},{"startTime":2380.505,"endTime":2383.215,"body":"to be down a little bit this month."},{"startTime":2383.255,"endTime":2385.495,"body":"We're going to, we're going"},{"startTime":2383.255,"endTime":2385.495,"body":"to deal with quality later."},{"startTime":2385.705,"endTime":2390.845,"body":"You have to, you have to be disciplined"},{"startTime":2385.705,"endTime":2390.845,"body":"enough to take the hit for the quality"},{"startTime":2390.855,"endTime":2394.165,"body":"because you're not going to sacrifice"},{"startTime":2390.855,"endTime":2394.165,"body":"your represent, your reputation."},{"startTime":2394.315,"endTime":2396.485,"body":"And it's that, that piece of transparency."},{"startTime":2396.635,"endTime":2399.275,"body":"You know, there's, there's not many"},{"startTime":2396.635,"endTime":2399.275,"body":"customers out there that'll be."},{"startTime":2399.425,"endTime":2402.655,"body":"Truly, truly upset if you're"},{"startTime":2399.425,"endTime":2402.655,"body":"like, Hey, take an extra week."},{"startTime":2402.665,"endTime":2405.575,"body":"I want to make sure this is fully"},{"startTime":2402.665,"endTime":2405.575,"body":"tested before it gets to you guys."},{"startTime":2405.725,"endTime":2410.965,"body":"So it's that we had that component was"},{"startTime":2405.725,"endTime":2410.965,"body":"able to be tested and function on its own."},{"startTime":2411.115,"endTime":2415.405,"body":"So that say, if I had a lid, well, I"},{"startTime":2411.115,"endTime":2415.405,"body":"want, I want to make sure that lid is."},{"startTime":2415.555,"endTime":2416.975,"body":"You know, sealed up properly."},{"startTime":2416.975,"endTime":2420.255,"body":"I want to make sure that it's gonna do"},{"startTime":2416.975,"endTime":2420.255,"body":"what it needs to do when you put it on."},{"startTime":2420.405,"endTime":2422.495,"body":"So you're gonna do all those tests"},{"startTime":2420.405,"endTime":2422.495,"body":"before it leaves, and when it"},{"startTime":2422.495,"endTime":2425.005,"body":"gets there, yeah, there's a little"},{"startTime":2422.495,"endTime":2425.005,"body":"setup, maybe you gotta level it."},{"startTime":2425.155,"endTime":2427.665,"body":"When you put it on there, it's gonna"},{"startTime":2425.155,"endTime":2427.665,"body":"be done, and it's gonna function."},{"startTime":2427.815,"endTime":2431.255,"body":"Because you want the same thing if"},{"startTime":2427.815,"endTime":2431.255,"body":"that lid is used for a whole module."},{"startTime":2431.405,"endTime":2433.945,"body":"When it rolls into test, you don't"},{"startTime":2431.405,"endTime":2433.945,"body":"want to take, you want to find"},{"startTime":2433.945,"endTime":2435.455,"body":"those issues, yes, if there's any."},{"startTime":2435.605,"endTime":2437.885,"body":"And then report those back"},{"startTime":2435.605,"endTime":2437.885,"body":"and have that feedback."},{"startTime":2438.22,"endTime":2441.23,"body":"To the build team of, hey,"},{"startTime":2438.22,"endTime":2441.23,"body":"pay more attention to this."},{"startTime":2441.38,"endTime":2442.08,"body":"Okay, got it."},{"startTime":2442.23,"endTime":2444.98,"body":"And the, never had any"},{"startTime":2442.23,"endTime":2444.98,"body":"problems with people being"},{"startTime":2444.98,"endTime":2446.48,"body":"difficult on, on the feedback."},{"startTime":2446.82,"endTime":2449.21,"body":"Hey, we had, I ran into"},{"startTime":2446.82,"endTime":2449.21,"body":"this problem in test."},{"startTime":2449.36,"endTime":2450.72,"body":"It added a lot of extra time."},{"startTime":2450.83,"endTime":2452.38,"body":"Do this differently next time."},{"startTime":2452.53,"endTime":2453.48,"body":"Pay attention to this."},{"startTime":2453.53,"endTime":2455.15,"body":"And then you're developing"},{"startTime":2453.53,"endTime":2455.15,"body":"your people too."},{"startTime":2455.3,"endTime":2457.12,"body":"So you, you always need that going."},{"startTime":2457.27,"endTime":2461.06,"body":"That, that feedback and letting them know"},{"startTime":2457.27,"endTime":2461.06,"body":"what's going on and you want to make sure"},{"startTime":2461.06,"endTime":2463.83,"body":"that that testing is done before it leaves"},{"startTime":2461.06,"endTime":2463.83,"body":"and gets to the customer and that's,"},{"startTime":2463.98,"endTime":2465.63,"body":"you have to be disciplined in that."},{"startTime":2465.78,"endTime":2469.86,"body":"I feel like in hardware, You have"},{"startTime":2465.78,"endTime":2469.86,"body":"better requirements in terms of"},{"startTime":2469.91,"endTime":2473.4,"body":"what it needs to do, whatever the"},{"startTime":2469.91,"endTime":2473.4,"body":"widget is or part of a widget."},{"startTime":2473.5,"endTime":2475.51,"body":"Do you have a lot of NFRs in hardware?"},{"startTime":2475.51,"endTime":2476.0,"body":"I don't know."},{"startTime":2476.15,"endTime":2477.02,"body":"Just putting it out there?"},{"startTime":2477.07,"endTime":2477.65,"body":"I have no idea."},{"startTime":2477.68,"endTime":2478.98,"body":"But in software you do, right?"},{"startTime":2478.99,"endTime":2480.12,"body":"The thing's got to scale."},{"startTime":2480.27,"endTime":2484.66,"body":"In hardware it's got to perform"},{"startTime":2480.27,"endTime":2484.66,"body":"for for its design fitness purpose."},{"startTime":2484.74,"endTime":2487.48,"body":"As soon as you put Hardware and"},{"startTime":2484.74,"endTime":2487.48,"body":"software together, I think the"},{"startTime":2487.48,"endTime":2488.91,"body":"challenges become magnified."},{"startTime":2489.06,"endTime":2491.81,"body":"Just because you've got other people"},{"startTime":2489.06,"endTime":2491.81,"body":"involved, you've also got these"},{"startTime":2491.85,"endTime":2493.95,"body":"integration challenges throughout."},{"startTime":2494.1,"endTime":2497.14,"body":"I mean, I, I think that's, that's"},{"startTime":2494.1,"endTime":2497.14,"body":"the thing coming out of this whole"},{"startTime":2497.18,"endTime":2500.23,"body":"podcast is like as soon as you put"},{"startTime":2497.18,"endTime":2500.23,"body":"hardware and software together."},{"startTime":2500.38,"endTime":2502.15,"body":"Like you magnify all of your problems"},{"startTime":2502.32,"endTime":2502.63,"body":"it does."},{"startTime":2502.71,"endTime":2507.38,"body":"Yeah, I mean, I agree, first of all, and"},{"startTime":2502.71,"endTime":2507.38,"body":"then if it's not your software someone"},{"startTime":2507.38,"endTime":2510.77,"body":"else's software that you're putting"},{"startTime":2507.38,"endTime":2510.77,"body":"into your product, is there a partner?"},{"startTime":2510.92,"endTime":2512.74,"body":"We go back to the Ford situation, right?"},{"startTime":2512.89,"endTime":2516.23,"body":"And that's one, I mean, you've"},{"startTime":2512.89,"endTime":2516.23,"body":"got dozens of these suppliers."},{"startTime":2516.24,"endTime":2519.94,"body":"So it's so difficult to integrate"},{"startTime":2516.24,"endTime":2519.94,"body":"something like that together to"},{"startTime":2519.94,"endTime":2523.51,"body":"the point where it all functions"},{"startTime":2519.94,"endTime":2523.51,"body":"all the time for every use case."},{"startTime":2523.66,"endTime":2526.12,"body":"So in the end, it may come down to this."},{"startTime":2526.27,"endTime":2528.1,"body":"You accept good enough."},{"startTime":2528.25,"endTime":2532.39,"body":"Om's dealing out hard pills to"},{"startTime":2528.25,"endTime":2532.39,"body":"swallow on the podcast today."},{"startTime":2532.54,"endTime":2536.7,"body":"I can, I that's a hard pill to swallow,"},{"startTime":2532.54,"endTime":2536.7,"body":", it's good enough because we can't get"},{"startTime":2536.7,"endTime":2540.54,"body":"out all these vendor relationships,"},{"startTime":2536.7,"endTime":2540.54,"body":"and we're trying to save 500 a car,"},{"startTime":2540.89,"endTime":2542.93,"body":"and this is really the only way eugh."},{"startTime":2543.05,"endTime":2544.84,"body":"The hardware and software together yet."},{"startTime":2544.86,"endTime":2548.19,"body":"It'll it'll amplify all those problems"},{"startTime":2544.86,"endTime":2548.19,"body":"that you normally have just on the"},{"startTime":2548.19,"endTime":2552.16,"body":"software side Like like Brian said,"},{"startTime":2548.19,"endTime":2552.16,"body":"but the solutions are kind of the same"},{"startTime":2552.28,"endTime":2556.63,"body":"you need your process optimization"},{"startTime":2552.28,"endTime":2556.63,"body":"you need to clearly define all all"},{"startTime":2556.64,"endTime":2560.88,"body":"the KPIs that you're gonna look at for"},{"startTime":2556.64,"endTime":2560.88,"body":"success or failure , you still want the"},{"startTime":2560.88,"endTime":2565.34,"body":"customer feedback, but every aspect of"},{"startTime":2560.88,"endTime":2565.34,"body":"the customer is you need to recognize"},{"startTime":2565.34,"endTime":2569.95,"body":"where value comes from and then make"},{"startTime":2565.34,"endTime":2569.95,"body":"sure that what is value is defined."},{"startTime":2570.11,"endTime":2573.71,"body":"As long as you start laying the good"},{"startTime":2570.11,"endTime":2573.71,"body":"foundation and you work towards a"},{"startTime":2573.71,"endTime":2577.83,"body":"solid one, even if you're not on"},{"startTime":2573.71,"endTime":2577.83,"body":"solid footing right away, as long as"},{"startTime":2577.83,"endTime":2580.59,"body":"you're moving forward, you're going"},{"startTime":2577.83,"endTime":2580.59,"body":"to make exponential improvement."},{"startTime":2580.74,"endTime":2582.93,"body":"You just have to stay with,"},{"startTime":2580.74,"endTime":2582.93,"body":"it's going to be painful."},{"startTime":2583.22,"endTime":2586.23,"body":"It's going to hurt, but that's"},{"startTime":2583.22,"endTime":2586.23,"body":"that radical candor that"},{"startTime":2586.23,"endTime":2587.33,"body":"everybody talks about, right?"},{"startTime":2587.33,"endTime":2590.5,"body":"You got to be able to accept that so"},{"startTime":2587.33,"endTime":2590.5,"body":"that you can get better and move on."},{"startTime":2590.78,"endTime":2594.39,"body":"And if you want to take a company"},{"startTime":2590.78,"endTime":2594.39,"body":"from 25 million to 500 million in"},{"startTime":2594.39,"endTime":2597.52,"body":"five years, that's, you're not going"},{"startTime":2594.39,"endTime":2597.52,"body":"to do it by holding on to old ways."},{"startTime":2597.67,"endTime":2602.07,"body":"You have to put big boy pants on and You"},{"startTime":2597.67,"endTime":2602.07,"body":"got to do what nobody else is doing a"},{"startTime":2602.07,"endTime":2606.39,"body":"lot of manufacturing companies all turn"},{"startTime":2602.07,"endTime":2606.39,"body":"towards TPS and Six Sigma and lean and"},{"startTime":2606.39,"endTime":2608.16,"body":"they Try to cram themselves into that box."},{"startTime":2608.16,"endTime":2611.79,"body":"Well, you're you're not gonna beat"},{"startTime":2608.16,"endTime":2611.79,"body":"Toyota by trying to be Toyota, right?"},{"startTime":2612.1,"endTime":2615.35,"body":"You're gonna beat Toyota by doing"},{"startTime":2612.1,"endTime":2615.35,"body":"things that work for you and"},{"startTime":2615.35,"endTime":2618.68,"body":"you can't follow it to the grave"},{"startTime":2615.35,"endTime":2618.68,"body":"GE was a prime example, right?"},{"startTime":2618.68,"endTime":2622.0,"body":"They were the Six Sigma poster"},{"startTime":2618.68,"endTime":2622.0,"body":"child for a while, and it, they"},{"startTime":2622.0,"endTime":2623.36,"body":"followed it into the grave."},{"startTime":2623.51,"endTime":2625.87,"body":"And, I don't know if they're"},{"startTime":2623.51,"endTime":2625.87,"body":"still recovering from that, but,"},{"startTime":2626.02,"endTime":2627.3,"body":"you can't beat that drum enough."},{"startTime":2627.33,"endTime":2630.31,"body":"You can lay the foundation, you can"},{"startTime":2627.33,"endTime":2630.31,"body":"get that mindset in there, you can"},{"startTime":2630.32,"endTime":2634.69,"body":"build the agile mindset on top of that,"},{"startTime":2630.32,"endTime":2634.69,"body":"where you're valuing your people more."},{"startTime":2634.84,"endTime":2638.7,"body":"But, I literally had somebody tell"},{"startTime":2634.84,"endTime":2638.7,"body":"me like, Oh, Lean is the foundation"},{"startTime":2638.7,"endTime":2641.76,"body":"for Agile, and I was like, Right,"},{"startTime":2638.7,"endTime":2641.76,"body":"but you and I, you being Six"},{"startTime":2641.76,"endTime":2645.48,"body":"Sigma, and me being Agile, we have"},{"startTime":2641.76,"endTime":2645.48,"body":"different considerations entirely."},{"startTime":2645.63,"endTime":2648.18,"body":"If you're going to do an"},{"startTime":2645.63,"endTime":2648.18,"body":"improvement, where's your focus?"},{"startTime":2648.29,"endTime":2649.55,"body":"Well, process over people."},{"startTime":2649.7,"endTime":2652.08,"body":"Okay, this is, this is why"},{"startTime":2649.7,"endTime":2652.08,"body":"we're never going to agree."},{"startTime":2652.37,"endTime":2653.77,"body":"Because mine is people over process."},{"startTime":2653.92,"endTime":2655.59,"body":"So you have to be radical"},{"startTime":2653.92,"endTime":2655.59,"body":"in what you're doing."},{"startTime":2655.69,"endTime":2657.43,"body":"You have to be committed to it."},{"startTime":2657.58,"endTime":2660.35,"body":"You have to clearly define everything"},{"startTime":2657.58,"endTime":2660.35,"body":"so everybody knows what's going on."},{"startTime":2660.5,"endTime":2664.08,"body":"And then, you can't, if"},{"startTime":2660.5,"endTime":2664.08,"body":"something's not working, change it."},{"startTime":2664.23,"endTime":2665.07,"body":"I agree with that."},{"startTime":2665.1,"endTime":2666.22,"body":"Ruthlessly pivot."},{"startTime":2666.37,"endTime":2669.72,"body":"There's there's no point"},{"startTime":2666.37,"endTime":2669.72,"body":"dwelling on Fixing bad practices."},{"startTime":2669.75,"endTime":2670.55,"body":"Just get rid of them."},{"startTime":2670.7,"endTime":2670.91,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":2670.91,"endTime":2671.9,"body":"So that, that's it."},{"startTime":2671.9,"endTime":2672.17,"body":"Right?"},{"startTime":2672.17,"endTime":2673.97,"body":"That's, that's, that's"},{"startTime":2672.17,"endTime":2673.97,"body":"a, that's the podcast."},{"startTime":2673.97,"endTime":2675.02,"body":"That's the podcast."},{"startTime":2675.02,"endTime":2675.83,"body":"It's a wrap."},{"startTime":2675.9,"endTime":2679.47,"body":"If you liked it, don't forget to like,"},{"startTime":2675.9,"endTime":2679.47,"body":"and subscribe and let us know other"},{"startTime":2679.47,"endTime":2680.82,"body":"topics that you want us to talk about"}]}