{"version":"1.0.0","segments":[{"startTime":1.43,"endTime":4.41,"body":"welcome to the Arguing Agile Podcast,"},{"startTime":1.43,"endTime":4.41,"body":"where Enterprise Business Agility"},{"startTime":4.45,"endTime":7.58,"body":"Coach Om Patel and Product Manager"},{"startTime":4.45,"endTime":7.58,"body":"Brian Orlando argue about product"},{"startTime":7.6,"endTime":10.85,"body":"management, leadership, and business"},{"startTime":7.6,"endTime":10.85,"body":"agility, so you don't have to."},{"startTime":11.827,"endTime":12.637,"body":"Welcome back to the argument."},{"startTime":12.647,"endTime":13.438,"body":"Agile podcast."},{"startTime":13.438,"endTime":16.327,"body":"I, we have an interesting"},{"startTime":13.438,"endTime":16.327,"body":"one about CFOs today."},{"startTime":16.478,"endTime":17.847,"body":"Om sent me an article."},{"startTime":17.997,"endTime":21.477,"body":"Some social media platform could be"},{"startTime":17.997,"endTime":21.477,"body":"a good social media platform Could"},{"startTime":21.487,"endTime":25.567,"body":"be one that used to be good and isn't"},{"startTime":21.487,"endTime":25.567,"body":"anymore could be anyone Yeah, you never"},{"startTime":25.567,"endTime":29.227,"body":"know because they all have the same"},{"startTime":25.567,"endTime":29.227,"body":"features now anyway Sadly the post"},{"startTime":29.227,"endTime":33.387,"body":"said it was from an individual who"},{"startTime":29.227,"endTime":33.387,"body":"does, they do have their CFO chops."},{"startTime":33.387,"endTime":36.767,"body":"They've been in a CFO for"},{"startTime":33.387,"endTime":36.767,"body":"at least 10, 11 ish years."},{"startTime":36.917,"endTime":39.167,"body":"So they do, I trust that they"},{"startTime":36.917,"endTime":39.167,"body":"know what they're talking about."},{"startTime":39.457,"endTime":42.457,"body":"That for the purposes of the"},{"startTime":39.457,"endTime":42.457,"body":"podcast, the jury accepts that this"},{"startTime":42.457,"endTime":44.747,"body":"person is an expert in CFO wing."},{"startTime":44.897,"endTime":45.418,"body":"It's a thing."},{"startTime":45.428,"endTime":46.438,"body":"CFO wing thing."},{"startTime":46.528,"endTime":46.548,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":46.848,"endTime":48.568,"body":"And he says 13 lies."},{"startTime":48.588,"endTime":52.118,"body":"Every new CFO hears, . I"},{"startTime":48.588,"endTime":52.118,"body":"have not pre read the list."},{"startTime":52.268,"endTime":53.778,"body":"This is the first time"},{"startTime":52.268,"endTime":53.778,"body":"I'm reading the list."},{"startTime":53.928,"endTime":54.218,"body":"All right."},{"startTime":54.468,"endTime":57.338,"body":"Number one, compliance is"},{"startTime":54.468,"endTime":57.338,"body":"someone else's problem."},{"startTime":57.448,"endTime":59.288,"body":"Compliance is someone else's problem."},{"startTime":59.298,"endTime":63.897,"body":"So while I haven't heard that myself,"},{"startTime":59.298,"endTime":63.897,"body":"I have seen Well, you're not a CFO."},{"startTime":63.908,"endTime":65.748,"body":"I'm not a CFO, so of"},{"startTime":63.908,"endTime":65.748,"body":"course I haven't heard it."},{"startTime":65.768,"endTime":70.668,"body":"But I have seen Direction in a company"},{"startTime":65.768,"endTime":70.668,"body":"where the attitude has been build it"},{"startTime":70.668,"endTime":75.728,"body":"ship it And if it's broke if it's not"},{"startTime":70.668,"endTime":75.728,"body":"compliant, we'll patch it up I've heard"},{"startTime":75.728,"endTime":80.138,"body":"that now having said that just to be"},{"startTime":75.728,"endTime":80.138,"body":"fair because we like to be fair i've also"},{"startTime":80.138,"endTime":82.468,"body":"seen the opposite in regulated industries"},{"startTime":82.478,"endTime":84.848,"body":"So I've seen both sides of the coin here."},{"startTime":84.998,"endTime":87.938,"body":"When CFOs hear compliance is"},{"startTime":84.998,"endTime":87.938,"body":"someone else's problem, I can"},{"startTime":87.938,"endTime":93.908,"body":"only imagine that this is probably"},{"startTime":87.938,"endTime":93.908,"body":"not in a regulated industry."},{"startTime":94.118,"endTime":96.588,"body":"Probably because it would"},{"startTime":94.118,"endTime":96.588,"body":"be a huge risk otherwise."},{"startTime":96.738,"endTime":101.198,"body":"And I'm not talking about risk when"},{"startTime":96.738,"endTime":101.198,"body":"something goes wrong with the users"},{"startTime":101.268,"endTime":105.098,"body":"necessarily, just like on face value"},{"startTime":101.268,"endTime":105.098,"body":"of, of whatever the software is."},{"startTime":105.418,"endTime":107.348,"body":"I'm talking about"},{"startTime":105.418,"endTime":107.348,"body":"reputation damage, right?"},{"startTime":107.348,"endTime":109.048,"body":"Which is many times worse."},{"startTime":109.198,"endTime":112.758,"body":"So in a non regulated industry,"},{"startTime":109.198,"endTime":112.758,"body":"compliance where it's needed"},{"startTime":112.758,"endTime":113.788,"body":"is someone else's problem."},{"startTime":113.948,"endTime":115.528,"body":"Is the CFO hears that?"},{"startTime":115.578,"endTime":119.658,"body":"If I, if you're a CFO, I'd like to"},{"startTime":115.578,"endTime":119.658,"body":"hear more from you about this because I"},{"startTime":119.658,"endTime":123.988,"body":"would think if I were a CFO, I wouldn't"},{"startTime":119.658,"endTime":123.988,"body":"want to take a chance on not having"},{"startTime":123.988,"endTime":125.938,"body":"something released out in the wild."},{"startTime":125.988,"endTime":128.738,"body":"What type of compliance are we"},{"startTime":125.988,"endTime":128.738,"body":"talking about in this bullet point?"},{"startTime":128.888,"endTime":130.808,"body":"It could be regulatory"},{"startTime":128.888,"endTime":130.808,"body":"is what I'm thinking."},{"startTime":130.808,"endTime":134.158,"body":"I mean, well, I mean, the CFO has got to"},{"startTime":130.808,"endTime":134.158,"body":"make sure that all their stuff is done"},{"startTime":134.158,"endTime":137.688,"body":"in accordance with gap and whatever other"},{"startTime":134.158,"endTime":137.688,"body":"industry standards that they're aligned"},{"startTime":137.688,"endTime":141.598,"body":"with, but that stuff is directly the"},{"startTime":137.688,"endTime":141.598,"body":"CFO's responsibility to make sure that"},{"startTime":141.598,"endTime":143.028,"body":"you are compliant with your financials."},{"startTime":143.178,"endTime":147.058,"body":"I can't see what other job the CFO"},{"startTime":143.178,"endTime":147.058,"body":"has, even spending more than we're"},{"startTime":147.058,"endTime":150.418,"body":"taking in, like that's, that's"},{"startTime":147.058,"endTime":150.418,"body":"not even really the CFO's job."},{"startTime":150.628,"endTime":154.918,"body":"The CFO just kind of waves a"},{"startTime":150.628,"endTime":154.918,"body":"flag and hopes that the CEO."},{"startTime":155.198,"endTime":159.138,"body":"Makes the right decision, but the CFO so"},{"startTime":155.198,"endTime":159.138,"body":"compliance, like what kind of compliance."},{"startTime":159.288,"endTime":161.938,"body":"It's a vague statement"},{"startTime":159.288,"endTime":161.938,"body":"that we read, right."},{"startTime":161.978,"endTime":163.888,"body":"As a bullet point, just says compliance."},{"startTime":163.898,"endTime":166.358,"body":"So we're left to our own"},{"startTime":163.898,"endTime":166.358,"body":"devices to interpret that."},{"startTime":166.508,"endTime":169.008,"body":"And about the only thing I"},{"startTime":166.508,"endTime":169.008,"body":"could come up with is this is"},{"startTime":169.008,"endTime":170.848,"body":"something that is not severe."},{"startTime":170.978,"endTime":175.138,"body":"If you were to be in breach of compliance,"},{"startTime":170.978,"endTime":175.138,"body":"where the CFO could say, well, let's"},{"startTime":175.138,"endTime":178.648,"body":"just get it out there sooner rather"},{"startTime":175.138,"endTime":178.648,"body":"than later , just because quicker time"},{"startTime":178.648,"endTime":180.518,"body":"to market means more cashflow for them."},{"startTime":180.613,"endTime":183.453,"body":"It's compliance, like a, like"},{"startTime":180.613,"endTime":183.453,"body":"an operations type of compliance"},{"startTime":183.453,"endTime":185.923,"body":"we've got these things that we've"},{"startTime":183.453,"endTime":185.923,"body":"got, we've got these contractual"},{"startTime":185.923,"endTime":187.793,"body":"obligations and I'm going to trust."},{"startTime":188.108,"endTime":190.068,"body":"That the operations"},{"startTime":188.108,"endTime":190.068,"body":"people are on top of it."},{"startTime":190.138,"endTime":191.488,"body":"I can't do that as CFO."},{"startTime":191.488,"endTime":193.518,"body":"I can't just trust that"},{"startTime":191.488,"endTime":193.518,"body":"they're on top of it."},{"startTime":193.548,"endTime":194.838,"body":"I could read it from that perspective."},{"startTime":194.988,"endTime":197.718,"body":"There are these financial"},{"startTime":194.988,"endTime":197.718,"body":"penalties coming up."},{"startTime":197.728,"endTime":198.048,"body":"Right."},{"startTime":198.198,"endTime":200.268,"body":"And I need to be in tune with them."},{"startTime":200.298,"endTime":203.968,"body":"That's interesting because we don't really"},{"startTime":200.298,"endTime":203.968,"body":"think of the CFO, or whatever, finance or"},{"startTime":203.968,"endTime":207.258,"body":"whatever you want We don't really think"},{"startTime":203.968,"endTime":207.258,"body":"of them as stakeholders to development"},{"startTime":207.258,"endTime":211.728,"body":"teams a lot of times when you cast the"},{"startTime":207.258,"endTime":211.728,"body":"net as a product manager to figure out who"},{"startTime":211.968,"endTime":215.518,"body":"needs to have input into this new product"},{"startTime":211.968,"endTime":215.518,"body":"or this new thing, like considering"},{"startTime":215.518,"endTime":217.448,"body":"finance, not at the top of my list."},{"startTime":217.598,"endTime":221.368,"body":"And rightly so, I think from a product"},{"startTime":217.598,"endTime":221.368,"body":"perspective, it shouldn't be right."},{"startTime":221.448,"endTime":223.828,"body":"I mean, so yes, they do"},{"startTime":221.448,"endTime":223.828,"body":"control the purse strings."},{"startTime":223.978,"endTime":227.938,"body":"But at the same time, they don't get"},{"startTime":223.978,"endTime":227.938,"body":"to make the decisions on the product."},{"startTime":227.968,"endTime":229.358,"body":"That's product's role, right?"},{"startTime":229.508,"endTime":230.878,"body":"So it's interesting to me."},{"startTime":231.168,"endTime":235.508,"body":"I really don't think this has anything"},{"startTime":231.168,"endTime":235.508,"body":"to do with any hard regulatory type of"},{"startTime":235.538,"endTime":240.068,"body":"compliance, but yeah, maybe there's bodies"},{"startTime":235.538,"endTime":240.068,"body":"you have to be compliant with depending on"},{"startTime":240.068,"endTime":244.548,"body":"the domain you're in, where if you're not"},{"startTime":240.068,"endTime":244.548,"body":"compliant, the worst that would happen is."},{"startTime":244.698,"endTime":249.128,"body":"a slap on the wrist or fine in which"},{"startTime":244.698,"endTime":249.128,"body":"case to see if we could say let's just"},{"startTime":249.128,"endTime":252.568,"body":"get it out there Let's start getting"},{"startTime":249.128,"endTime":252.568,"body":"those dollars in and we'll absorb it."},{"startTime":252.718,"endTime":253.478,"body":"It's pretty weak."},{"startTime":253.478,"endTime":254.278,"body":"I think as a point."},{"startTime":254.598,"endTime":257.518,"body":"All right Well, let's go to point"},{"startTime":254.598,"endTime":257.518,"body":"number two then point number two"},{"startTime":257.528,"endTime":262.728,"body":"forecasting accurately is just guesswork"},{"startTime":257.528,"endTime":262.728,"body":"that that's a lie Told to CFOs."},{"startTime":262.878,"endTime":265.758,"body":"Which side do you want to be on with"},{"startTime":262.878,"endTime":265.758,"body":"this one because I'll be on the CFO"},{"startTime":265.758,"endTime":270.348,"body":"side for a change because I want to say,"},{"startTime":265.758,"endTime":270.348,"body":"listen, my world is all about numbers."},{"startTime":270.398,"endTime":271.978,"body":"There's no ambiguity in numbers."},{"startTime":272.088,"endTime":274.838,"body":"So give me something"},{"startTime":272.088,"endTime":274.838,"body":"that is absolute, right?"},{"startTime":274.988,"endTime":278.028,"body":"So how is it that forecasting"},{"startTime":274.988,"endTime":278.028,"body":"accurately is guesswork?"},{"startTime":278.028,"endTime":279.078,"body":"I want to know numbers."},{"startTime":279.228,"endTime":279.908,"body":"You know, sure."},{"startTime":279.918,"endTime":284.228,"body":"Give me, give me a swag, give me a"},{"startTime":279.918,"endTime":284.228,"body":"plus or minus, but give me a number."},{"startTime":284.398,"endTime":284.668,"body":"All right."},{"startTime":284.718,"endTime":287.078,"body":"Heard, understood, accepted."},{"startTime":287.228,"endTime":288.918,"body":"Now here's my counterpoint."},{"startTime":289.068,"endTime":289.618,"body":"Thank you."},{"startTime":289.648,"endTime":290.598,"body":"Uh, Om, Mr."},{"startTime":290.598,"endTime":295.418,"body":"CFO uh, Brian, the senior product manager"},{"startTime":290.598,"endTime":295.418,"body":"who thinks very highly of his product"},{"startTime":295.418,"endTime":299.738,"body":"management ability is going to tell you"},{"startTime":295.418,"endTime":299.738,"body":"how much money do you want to spend trying"},{"startTime":299.738,"endTime":302.998,"body":"to break into this market, trying to"},{"startTime":299.738,"endTime":302.998,"body":"impress that new user base or trying to,"},{"startTime":303.208,"endTime":307.048,"body":"Win this business you break off that"},{"startTime":303.208,"endTime":307.048,"body":"amount of money and then you give"},{"startTime":307.048,"endTime":310.408,"body":"it to me at the end of me spending"},{"startTime":307.048,"endTime":310.408,"body":"that money or at the end of the, time"},{"startTime":310.408,"endTime":313.688,"body":"period we agreed to, maybe I need to"},{"startTime":310.408,"endTime":313.688,"body":"update you every 30 days or whatever."},{"startTime":313.918,"endTime":316.338,"body":"We'll make a little micro"},{"startTime":313.918,"endTime":316.338,"body":"agreement between the two of us."},{"startTime":316.488,"endTime":317.578,"body":"And that's how we'll handle it."},{"startTime":317.728,"endTime":322.938,"body":"So I'm not telling you that accurately"},{"startTime":317.728,"endTime":322.938,"body":"forecasting is guessing, but I am telling"},{"startTime":322.938,"endTime":326.328,"body":"you, if you want to break into a new"},{"startTime":322.938,"endTime":326.328,"body":"market, if you want to do things that are"},{"startTime":326.328,"endTime":330.668,"body":"completely unknown to us, the company, it"},{"startTime":326.328,"endTime":330.668,"body":"is guesswork, it is guesswork that doesn't"},{"startTime":330.668,"endTime":335.748,"body":"mean that it's completely opaque and you"},{"startTime":330.668,"endTime":335.748,"body":"don't get a view as we move things along."},{"startTime":335.748,"endTime":339.898,"body":"so going back to our podcast on strategy,"},{"startTime":335.748,"endTime":339.898,"body":"where I can align with you on this one is."},{"startTime":340.048,"endTime":342.878,"body":"You're going to tell me, Brian, I'm not"},{"startTime":340.048,"endTime":342.878,"body":"giving you money if you have no plan."},{"startTime":343.158,"endTime":346.817,"body":"I'm not giving you money if you"},{"startTime":343.158,"endTime":346.817,"body":"can't give me names of customers and"},{"startTime":346.817,"endTime":351.177,"body":"features that you plan to deliver to"},{"startTime":346.817,"endTime":351.177,"body":"them and a plan, with dates on it and"},{"startTime":351.177,"endTime":354.237,"body":"maybe little bars that connect the"},{"startTime":351.177,"endTime":354.237,"body":"start to the end date on the chart."},{"startTime":354.437,"endTime":354.617,"body":"You know?"},{"startTime":354.767,"endTime":357.587,"body":"Like suddenly we find ourselves with"},{"startTime":354.767,"endTime":357.587,"body":"a Gantt chart, you know what I mean?"},{"startTime":357.707,"endTime":358.417,"body":"Because the CFO wants it."},{"startTime":358.567,"endTime":361.367,"body":"Yeah, most CFOs live in that world, right?"},{"startTime":361.377,"endTime":365.957,"body":"So, but there is also a case to be made"},{"startTime":361.377,"endTime":365.957,"body":"for breaking into a new market where you"},{"startTime":365.957,"endTime":367.287,"body":"don't really know what you don't know."},{"startTime":367.607,"endTime":370.787,"body":"So in that case, as a CFO, what"},{"startTime":367.607,"endTime":370.787,"body":"I'm not going to do is to say,"},{"startTime":370.847,"endTime":372.367,"body":"okay, go do whatever it takes."},{"startTime":372.377,"endTime":373.487,"body":"So that's carte blanche, right?"},{"startTime":373.757,"endTime":376.497,"body":"That's not, that's not how"},{"startTime":373.757,"endTime":376.497,"body":"I would think as a CFO."},{"startTime":376.787,"endTime":380.407,"body":"What I might say is, what do you think"},{"startTime":376.787,"endTime":380.407,"body":"you know, how long would it take?"},{"startTime":380.407,"endTime":381.407,"body":"How big is your team?"},{"startTime":381.447,"endTime":385.147,"body":"And I will back into a number from"},{"startTime":381.447,"endTime":385.147,"body":"there and say, Okay, Here are some"},{"startTime":385.147,"endTime":389.487,"body":"guardrails for you so you have"},{"startTime":385.147,"endTime":389.487,"body":"about let's say i'm just making a"},{"startTime":389.487,"endTime":391.047,"body":"number here hundred thousand bucks."},{"startTime":391.267,"endTime":394.757,"body":"It could be a million doesn't matter"},{"startTime":391.267,"endTime":394.757,"body":"whatever number it is And say, go spend"},{"startTime":394.757,"endTime":396.737,"body":"that money to learn what you don't know."},{"startTime":396.887,"endTime":401.497,"body":"And to your point about frequent"},{"startTime":396.887,"endTime":401.497,"body":"updates and keeping the CFO in"},{"startTime":401.497,"endTime":403.217,"body":"the loop, I think that's critical."},{"startTime":403.247,"endTime":407.617,"body":"Because when you start to go through"},{"startTime":403.247,"endTime":407.617,"body":"that budget, right, they need to know"},{"startTime":407.617,"endTime":408.867,"body":"if you're going to run under or over."},{"startTime":409.017,"endTime":414.587,"body":"So a CFO is surprised when you"},{"startTime":409.017,"endTime":414.587,"body":"run out of that initial seed corn"},{"startTime":414.597,"endTime":417.067,"body":"funding of 100, 000 in my example."},{"startTime":417.107,"endTime":420.397,"body":"And then you go, go back to the"},{"startTime":417.107,"endTime":420.397,"body":"well and say, Hey, guess what?"},{"startTime":420.427,"endTime":421.107,"body":"We're doing great."},{"startTime":421.397,"endTime":422.667,"body":"We just need another 50."},{"startTime":422.667,"endTime":424.187,"body":"It doesn't give me a good feeling, right?"},{"startTime":424.477,"endTime":427.767,"body":"Whereas if I'm in the loop the whole"},{"startTime":424.477,"endTime":427.767,"body":"time and I know where you're at and"},{"startTime":427.767,"endTime":431.157,"body":"I'm seeing progress, I might be open"},{"startTime":427.767,"endTime":431.157,"body":"to finding that money from somewhere."},{"startTime":431.257,"endTime":431.497,"body":"Right."},{"startTime":431.647,"endTime":434.137,"body":"Which magically always seems to happen."},{"startTime":434.357,"endTime":434.847,"body":"Yes."},{"startTime":434.937,"endTime":435.117,"body":"Yes."},{"startTime":435.287,"endTime":435.877,"body":"It always happens."},{"startTime":435.877,"endTime":440.397,"body":"When the good ideas come, or the golden"},{"startTime":435.877,"endTime":440.397,"body":"children in the organization come"},{"startTime":440.397,"endTime":445.422,"body":"out, or the chosen executives come"},{"startTime":440.397,"endTime":445.422,"body":"out, We always seem to find the money."},{"startTime":445.662,"endTime":449.142,"body":"I just feel like with this category of"},{"startTime":445.662,"endTime":449.142,"body":"forecasting stuff like that, this kind"},{"startTime":449.142,"endTime":453.102,"body":"of shows the cracks in the armor that"},{"startTime":449.142,"endTime":453.102,"body":"like most product teams, product people,"},{"startTime":453.252,"endTime":456.112,"body":"they're not treating those"},{"startTime":453.252,"endTime":456.112,"body":"folks as part of the team."},{"startTime":456.262,"endTime":458.302,"body":"You know, that they're there to help you."},{"startTime":458.452,"endTime":461.322,"body":"In your day to day, you"},{"startTime":458.452,"endTime":461.322,"body":"just haven't asked for help,"},{"startTime":461.323,"endTime":463.053,"body":"I'm going to take a little"},{"startTime":461.323,"endTime":463.053,"body":"tangent on this podcast"},{"startTime":463.053,"endTime":463.383,"body":"Sure."},{"startTime":463.403,"endTime":467.883,"body":"One of our least watched podcasts"},{"startTime":463.403,"endTime":467.883,"body":"is titled asking for help."},{"startTime":468.133,"endTime":471.843,"body":"It is a podcast that we spent the whole"},{"startTime":468.133,"endTime":471.843,"body":"time talking about why people don't ask"},{"startTime":471.843,"endTime":473.933,"body":"for help, how people can ask for help."},{"startTime":473.933,"endTime":476.703,"body":"how can you bring it into"},{"startTime":473.933,"endTime":476.703,"body":"your day to day work?"},{"startTime":476.853,"endTime":481.083,"body":"Of being more open to ask for help"},{"startTime":476.853,"endTime":481.083,"body":"and not being perceived as like weak"},{"startTime":481.103,"endTime":484.793,"body":"or lacking or whatever because you're"},{"startTime":481.103,"endTime":484.793,"body":"asking for help and is shockingly"},{"startTime":484.793,"endTime":487.173,"body":"one of our least viewed podcasts."},{"startTime":487.273,"endTime":488.253,"body":"I don't understand it."},{"startTime":488.263,"endTime":491.573,"body":"Maybe we'll link it to this one"},{"startTime":488.263,"endTime":491.573,"body":"and let people go check it out."},{"startTime":491.573,"endTime":493.293,"body":"But yeah, I agree with you."},{"startTime":493.523,"endTime":497.603,"body":"I think seeing asking for help"},{"startTime":493.523,"endTime":497.603,"body":"as a weakness is the weakness."},{"startTime":497.753,"endTime":501.033,"body":"If you see that as a weakness,"},{"startTime":497.753,"endTime":501.033,"body":"that is the weakness, as opposed"},{"startTime":501.043,"endTime":502.623,"body":"to actually asking for help."},{"startTime":502.683,"endTime":504.843,"body":"if you're asking for help"},{"startTime":502.683,"endTime":504.843,"body":"for the right reasons, you"},{"startTime":504.843,"endTime":506.303,"body":"probably will find help, right?"},{"startTime":506.333,"endTime":509.502,"body":"So, coming back to this bullet"},{"startTime":506.333,"endTime":509.502,"body":"here forecasting, enabling the"},{"startTime":509.652,"endTime":515.302,"body":"CFO to make the right decisions,"},{"startTime":509.652,"endTime":515.302,"body":"make informed decisions, right?"},{"startTime":515.452,"endTime":519.542,"body":"We'll tend to weigh in your favor"},{"startTime":515.452,"endTime":519.542,"body":"as opposed to just saying, well,"},{"startTime":519.542,"endTime":520.492,"body":"I don't know how much I need."},{"startTime":520.512,"endTime":523.162,"body":"Give me some and I'll let you know"},{"startTime":520.512,"endTime":523.162,"body":"later when I'm running out of that."},{"startTime":523.312,"endTime":525.262,"body":"It's like, nah, that's"},{"startTime":523.312,"endTime":525.262,"body":"not going to happen."},{"startTime":525.602,"endTime":526.032,"body":"All right."},{"startTime":526.182,"endTime":526.892,"body":"Point 0."},{"startTime":526.892,"endTime":527.282,"body":"3."},{"startTime":527.282,"endTime":528.622,"body":"This is a lie."},{"startTime":528.642,"endTime":533.002,"body":"Every CFO hears micromanaging"},{"startTime":528.642,"endTime":533.002,"body":"shows attention to detail."},{"startTime":533.162,"endTime":534.932,"body":"and before I see you"},{"startTime":533.162,"endTime":534.932,"body":"shaking your head, yes."},{"startTime":535.082,"endTime":539.232,"body":"But before I'm gonna intercept you right"},{"startTime":535.082,"endTime":539.232,"body":"now because I have been with engineering"},{"startTime":539.242,"endTime":542.892,"body":"leaders that think the same thing They're"},{"startTime":539.242,"endTime":542.892,"body":"like if you're not micromanaging if"},{"startTime":542.892,"endTime":546.572,"body":"you're not in the details, you know"},{"startTime":542.892,"endTime":546.572,"body":"not any of this like founder mode"},{"startTime":546.572,"endTime":548.252,"body":"nonsense that I'm hearing now, right?"},{"startTime":548.282,"endTime":551.292,"body":"They're talking about truly being in"},{"startTime":548.282,"endTime":551.292,"body":"the details, like micromanaging the"},{"startTime":551.292,"endTime":553.582,"body":"details, telling you how to do things."},{"startTime":553.762,"endTime":555.582,"body":"You know, invite me to"},{"startTime":553.762,"endTime":555.582,"body":"all your sprint plannings."},{"startTime":555.632,"endTime":556.432,"body":"I'm the manager."},{"startTime":556.432,"endTime":557.262,"body":"I manage these people."},{"startTime":557.262,"endTime":561.162,"body":"I should be there anyway So what it"},{"startTime":557.262,"endTime":561.162,"body":"really shows is you were confused."},{"startTime":561.312,"endTime":567.232,"body":"About priorities and you do not trust"},{"startTime":561.312,"endTime":567.232,"body":"definitely lack of trust and exertion"},{"startTime":567.232,"endTime":569.012,"body":"of control is what it shows, right?"},{"startTime":569.282,"endTime":571.902,"body":"You're flexing your management muscle."},{"startTime":571.902,"endTime":573.982,"body":"They're saying, well,"},{"startTime":571.902,"endTime":573.982,"body":"I'm the manager, right?"},{"startTime":574.022,"endTime":574.972,"body":"I need to be there."},{"startTime":575.162,"endTime":575.702,"body":"Why?"},{"startTime":575.772,"endTime":576.432,"body":"What are you adding?"},{"startTime":576.582,"endTime":578.572,"body":"I think this is very, very prevalent."},{"startTime":578.572,"endTime":580.072,"body":"First of all, unfortunately."},{"startTime":580.222,"endTime":585.732,"body":"And typically we see this from that"},{"startTime":580.222,"endTime":585.732,"body":"middle management layer that is uncertain"},{"startTime":586.082,"endTime":588.202,"body":"about what their role is, right?"},{"startTime":588.202,"endTime":591.132,"body":"The teams are self organizing, so"},{"startTime":588.202,"endTime":591.132,"body":"they don't need a manager, right?"},{"startTime":591.272,"endTime":593.162,"body":"The leadership is entrusting the teams."},{"startTime":593.312,"endTime":595.762,"body":"So where do you fall as a middle manager?"},{"startTime":595.792,"endTime":600.662,"body":"It's in that tricky space where"},{"startTime":595.792,"endTime":600.662,"body":"you're grappling for Something, right?"},{"startTime":600.862,"endTime":603.232,"body":"Make sure that you have"},{"startTime":600.862,"endTime":603.232,"body":"longevity in the organization."},{"startTime":603.232,"endTime":604.152,"body":"So what are you going to do?"},{"startTime":604.172,"endTime":607.272,"body":"You can't lodge yourself in"},{"startTime":604.172,"endTime":607.272,"body":"the in the details, so to"},{"startTime":607.272,"endTime":609.002,"body":"speak, at the level above you."},{"startTime":609.152,"endTime":612.292,"body":"They don't want you there, so you're"},{"startTime":609.152,"endTime":612.292,"body":"going to exert yourself on the team"},{"startTime":612.322,"endTime":616.802,"body":"and you'll embed every in every meeting"},{"startTime":612.322,"endTime":616.802,"body":"and go in and start creating noise."},{"startTime":616.832,"endTime":617.862,"body":"And that's terrible."},{"startTime":618.012,"endTime":622.122,"body":"Because it disrupts any level"},{"startTime":618.012,"endTime":622.122,"body":"of psychological safety you"},{"startTime":622.122,"endTime":623.582,"body":"may have on the team, right?"},{"startTime":623.732,"endTime":627.192,"body":"So micromanaging is not"},{"startTime":623.732,"endTime":627.192,"body":"attention to detail."},{"startTime":627.272,"endTime":628.642,"body":"Don't confuse those two things."},{"startTime":628.662,"endTime":631.742,"body":"Attention to detail is knowing enough"},{"startTime":628.662,"endTime":631.742,"body":"and then knowing when to step away."},{"startTime":631.892,"endTime":633.742,"body":"As a manager, right?"},{"startTime":633.892,"endTime":637.952,"body":"So we talk about this topic often"},{"startTime":633.892,"endTime":637.952,"body":"on the podcast, the difference"},{"startTime":637.952,"endTime":639.572,"body":"between a manager and a leader."},{"startTime":639.722,"endTime":643.592,"body":"It's a gray area sometimes because"},{"startTime":639.722,"endTime":643.592,"body":"your title might be manager, your"},{"startTime":643.622,"endTime":647.672,"body":"development manager, your QA,"},{"startTime":643.622,"endTime":647.672,"body":"whatever, whatever manager, right?"},{"startTime":647.952,"endTime":650.832,"body":"You're an X, Y, Z manager, but that"},{"startTime":647.952,"endTime":650.832,"body":"doesn't mean you're not a leader."},{"startTime":650.982,"endTime":652.472,"body":"Being a manager makes you a leader."},{"startTime":652.472,"endTime":653.452,"body":"You're leading those people."},{"startTime":653.602,"endTime":656.512,"body":"So lead first, manage,"},{"startTime":653.602,"endTime":656.512,"body":"let them self manage."},{"startTime":656.662,"endTime":659.642,"body":"You never hear anyone say"},{"startTime":656.662,"endTime":659.642,"body":"the teams are self leading."},{"startTime":659.792,"endTime":661.052,"body":"That term I've never seen."},{"startTime":661.132,"endTime":663.182,"body":"Self managing, self organizing, yes."},{"startTime":663.332,"endTime":665.752,"body":"So as a manager, be their safety net."},{"startTime":665.812,"endTime":668.192,"body":"Be there to help catch them, right?"},{"startTime":668.232,"endTime":670.292,"body":"If they're, imagine"},{"startTime":668.232,"endTime":670.292,"body":"they're trapeze artists."},{"startTime":670.302,"endTime":672.072,"body":"You're really just their safety net."},{"startTime":672.072,"endTime":674.232,"body":"So you're there to make"},{"startTime":672.072,"endTime":674.232,"body":"sure that they don't fail."},{"startTime":674.392,"endTime":675.862,"body":"But you're there to support them."},{"startTime":675.872,"endTime":680.202,"body":"Not necessarily to micromanage under"},{"startTime":675.872,"endTime":680.202,"body":"the guise of being detail oriented."},{"startTime":680.212,"endTime":684.152,"body":"Just so you can write up some reports"},{"startTime":680.212,"endTime":684.152,"body":"for your Managers or your leaders, right?"},{"startTime":684.182,"endTime":685.602,"body":"That that's just fake."},{"startTime":685.672,"endTime":685.922,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":686.072,"endTime":691.392,"body":"Well, I'm glad you're, I'm glad like"},{"startTime":686.072,"endTime":691.392,"body":"listeners and viewers here are, are"},{"startTime":691.442,"endTime":694.502,"body":"are hearing you say that because"},{"startTime":691.442,"endTime":694.502,"body":"we have a whole nother podcast."},{"startTime":694.552,"endTime":698.902,"body":"If you want to listen to us ramble for 45"},{"startTime":694.552,"endTime":698.902,"body":"minutes or 40 minutes or whatever it ended"},{"startTime":698.902,"endTime":700.492,"body":"up being about the illusion of control."},{"startTime":700.512,"endTime":705.232,"body":"Oh yeah we have a, we have a episode for"},{"startTime":700.512,"endTime":705.232,"body":"you to listen to the illusion of control"},{"startTime":705.242,"endTime":706.882,"body":"of why people do these kinds of things."},{"startTime":707.032,"endTime":710.722,"body":"So number four, the numbers"},{"startTime":707.032,"endTime":710.722,"body":"always speak for themselves."},{"startTime":710.872,"endTime":713.392,"body":"this is, I don't know if I can"},{"startTime":710.872,"endTime":713.392,"body":"take the opposite side of this one,"},{"startTime":713.392,"endTime":717.332,"body":"because as a product manager, I"},{"startTime":713.392,"endTime":717.332,"body":"like to be led by the data, but I"},{"startTime":717.372,"endTime":721.652,"body":"also have interacted with a lot of"},{"startTime":717.372,"endTime":721.652,"body":"people that can really distort data."},{"startTime":721.802,"endTime":726.102,"body":"they can do a , tap dance and tell"},{"startTime":721.802,"endTime":726.102,"body":"a story and kind of obfuscate the"},{"startTime":726.102,"endTime":730.502,"body":"details, throw out outliers, to the"},{"startTime":726.102,"endTime":730.502,"body":"point where the data basically fits"},{"startTime":730.512,"endTime":732.152,"body":"whatever story they're trying to tell."},{"startTime":732.152,"endTime":735.562,"body":"and it's been more than one person in my"},{"startTime":732.152,"endTime":735.562,"body":"career that I've met that can do that."},{"startTime":735.562,"endTime":739.322,"body":"So I sort of have the opinion now"},{"startTime":735.562,"endTime":739.322,"body":"that even if you're looking at data."},{"startTime":739.472,"endTime":741.862,"body":"You know, like visualizations"},{"startTime":739.472,"endTime":741.862,"body":"made off of data."},{"startTime":742.012,"endTime":743.012,"body":"I don't trust any numbers."},{"startTime":743.082,"endTime":746.392,"body":"it's a terrible curse because it means"},{"startTime":743.082,"endTime":746.392,"body":"that I need access to the raw data."},{"startTime":746.542,"endTime":749.982,"body":"Every report that I look"},{"startTime":746.542,"endTime":749.982,"body":"at, which is terrible."},{"startTime":750.132,"endTime":752.302,"body":"I don't have that kind of time"},{"startTime":750.132,"endTime":752.302,"body":"to go through every report."},{"startTime":752.352,"endTime":755.282,"body":"so I have to be clear when I"},{"startTime":752.352,"endTime":755.282,"body":"want to see reports compile."},{"startTime":755.312,"endTime":759.072,"body":"First of all, I don't ever ask people to"},{"startTime":755.312,"endTime":759.072,"body":"compile reports for me I know enough about"},{"startTime":759.292,"endTime":764.282,"body":"SQL and data visualizations and I can work"},{"startTime":759.292,"endTime":764.282,"body":"in Python like enough where I just compile"},{"startTime":764.282,"endTime":769.342,"body":"the reports myself and I compile the"},{"startTime":764.282,"endTime":769.342,"body":"dashboards based off of real live data."},{"startTime":769.492,"endTime":769.932,"body":"Right there."},{"startTime":769.932,"endTime":773.142,"body":"So we're always looking at a live"},{"startTime":769.932,"endTime":773.142,"body":"data dashboard and I don't deal"},{"startTime":773.142,"endTime":775.332,"body":"with this anymore in my career."},{"startTime":775.382,"endTime":780.692,"body":"it's too important for us to agree on"},{"startTime":775.382,"endTime":780.692,"body":"the truth for the data to be skewed."},{"startTime":780.702,"endTime":784.472,"body":"but again I am not a CFO, so I"},{"startTime":780.702,"endTime":784.472,"body":"don't get talked at by people in"},{"startTime":784.472,"endTime":786.772,"body":"different departments that are skewing"},{"startTime":784.472,"endTime":786.772,"body":"data because they want something."},{"startTime":786.782,"endTime":791.622,"body":"First of all, the data can be manipulated"},{"startTime":786.782,"endTime":791.622,"body":"by those that want to do that and"},{"startTime":791.632,"endTime":793.742,"body":"it will, and it yes, absolutely."},{"startTime":793.742,"endTime":795.732,"body":"So it's a little bit of a mirage."},{"startTime":796.002,"endTime":799.072,"body":"You know, you see something"},{"startTime":796.002,"endTime":799.072,"body":"that's not quite there."},{"startTime":799.352,"endTime":803.702,"body":"And often in the context of today's"},{"startTime":799.352,"endTime":803.702,"body":"conversation with CFOs, Data can be"},{"startTime":803.852,"endTime":807.902,"body":"manipulated such that it plays to the"},{"startTime":803.852,"endTime":807.902,"body":"advantage of those presenting the data."},{"startTime":808.052,"endTime":811.022,"body":"The CFO only sees one side of the data."},{"startTime":811.122,"endTime":812.442,"body":"They only see what you present."},{"startTime":812.452,"endTime":814.212,"body":"They don't have access to the raw data."},{"startTime":814.372,"endTime":815.942,"body":"They're not data people, right?"},{"startTime":816.212,"endTime":819.242,"body":"So unlike your skill set where"},{"startTime":816.212,"endTime":819.242,"body":"you can actually take the raw"},{"startTime":819.242,"endTime":821.137,"body":"data And do what you want with it."},{"startTime":821.287,"endTime":822.707,"body":"They don't have access to that."},{"startTime":822.717,"endTime":825.737,"body":"They have access to only the"},{"startTime":822.717,"endTime":825.737,"body":"dashboards or the graphs or"},{"startTime":825.737,"endTime":827.177,"body":"the charts that people present."},{"startTime":827.287,"endTime":831.957,"body":"Maybe I will slightly push back on"},{"startTime":827.287,"endTime":831.957,"body":"what you're saying, because I once"},{"startTime":831.967,"endTime":837.287,"body":"worked with a CFO who was in the"},{"startTime":831.967,"endTime":837.287,"body":"data, like it was a small company."},{"startTime":837.327,"endTime":839.547,"body":"So I guess larger companies,"},{"startTime":837.327,"endTime":839.547,"body":"I sort of agree with you."},{"startTime":839.547,"endTime":842.837,"body":"Okay, large companies, I'm willing"},{"startTime":839.547,"endTime":842.837,"body":"to let this go and we can move on to"},{"startTime":842.837,"endTime":844.527,"body":"the next point for purposes of time."},{"startTime":844.677,"endTime":845.447,"body":"Small companies."},{"startTime":845.497,"endTime":850.327,"body":"I think those CFOs are in the data and I"},{"startTime":845.497,"endTime":850.327,"body":"think they do pull the data for themselves"},{"startTime":850.397,"endTime":854.097,"body":"and Start scaling the company and start"},{"startTime":850.397,"endTime":854.097,"body":"expanding then you have this problem."},{"startTime":854.177,"endTime":855.837,"body":"I don't think small companies"},{"startTime":854.177,"endTime":855.837,"body":"deal with this problem I think"},{"startTime":855.837,"endTime":857.467,"body":"those CFOs really are in the data."},{"startTime":857.617,"endTime":860.207,"body":"So in that case, it'll be hard"},{"startTime":857.617,"endTime":860.207,"body":"to pull the wool over their eyes"},{"startTime":860.207,"endTime":861.547,"body":"I think it is very difficult."},{"startTime":861.547,"endTime":861.817,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":861.967,"endTime":864.517,"body":"Sorry, I'm reading bullet point number"},{"startTime":861.967,"endTime":864.517,"body":"four again And I'm not even really"},{"startTime":864.527,"endTime":866.867,"body":"sure if we like the numbers always"},{"startTime":864.527,"endTime":866.867,"body":"speak for themselves the numbers"},{"startTime":866.877,"endTime":869.317,"body":"never speak for themselves, , the"},{"startTime":866.877,"endTime":869.317,"body":"numbers speak for themselves."},{"startTime":869.367,"endTime":872.267,"body":"That's not even true in product"},{"startTime":869.367,"endTime":872.267,"body":"management either, because I'm taking"},{"startTime":872.267,"endTime":876.627,"body":"the numbers and the raw data means"},{"startTime":872.267,"endTime":876.627,"body":"nothing data is not information."},{"startTime":876.627,"endTime":878.567,"body":"It's not even knowledge or wisdom."},{"startTime":878.707,"endTime":879.577,"body":"It's just data."},{"startTime":879.887,"endTime":882.587,"body":"It's nothing like the"},{"startTime":879.887,"endTime":882.587,"body":"story that I'm telling."},{"startTime":882.737,"endTime":886.227,"body":"I'm leveraging the numbers,"},{"startTime":882.737,"endTime":886.227,"body":"but it's about the story."},{"startTime":886.377,"endTime":890.517,"body":"sometimes people tell stories"},{"startTime":886.377,"endTime":890.517,"body":"that don't even have data."},{"startTime":890.862,"endTime":892.162,"body":"It's about the story."},{"startTime":892.162,"endTime":895.112,"body":"So if the data can support the story,"},{"startTime":892.162,"endTime":895.112,"body":"this is, this, I guess is where I'm going."},{"startTime":895.262,"endTime":897.982,"body":"I didn't know I was going to this"},{"startTime":895.262,"endTime":897.982,"body":"destination, but now that we've"},{"startTime":897.982,"endTime":900.052,"body":"arrived at this destination,"},{"startTime":897.982,"endTime":900.052,"body":"I'm happy that we're here."},{"startTime":900.232,"endTime":903.552,"body":"So I went on a hike and I decided I"},{"startTime":900.232,"endTime":903.552,"body":"need to fire all my product managers"},{"startTime":903.612,"endTime":905.082,"body":", is there data underlying that?"},{"startTime":905.232,"endTime":905.832,"body":"Not really."},{"startTime":906.172,"endTime":906.962,"body":"There's a feeling."},{"startTime":907.192,"endTime":911.444,"body":"So at that level, the C level are"},{"startTime":907.192,"endTime":911.444,"body":"they making data backed decisions?"},{"startTime":911.504,"endTime":912.584,"body":"We like to think so."},{"startTime":912.584,"endTime":913.814,"body":"You and I like to think so."},{"startTime":913.964,"endTime":914.294,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":914.294,"endTime":915.464,"body":"you would like to think so."},{"startTime":915.539,"endTime":916.029,"body":"Reality."},{"startTime":916.029,"endTime":916.03,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":916.03,"endTime":916.72,"body":"it's different."},{"startTime":916.84,"endTime":917.89,"body":"Reality is different."},{"startTime":917.89,"endTime":921.46,"body":"Listen, sometimes the data, to your point"},{"startTime":917.89,"endTime":921.46,"body":"about raw data, not meaning anything."},{"startTime":921.46,"endTime":921.85,"body":"Absolutely."},{"startTime":921.85,"endTime":923.08,"body":"They like bricks."},{"startTime":923.14,"endTime":925.15,"body":"You see a pile of bricks,"},{"startTime":923.14,"endTime":925.15,"body":"what does that tell you?"},{"startTime":925.37,"endTime":927.74,"body":"it's how you arrange 'em"},{"startTime":925.37,"endTime":927.74,"body":"that forms a picture."},{"startTime":927.81,"endTime":929.635,"body":"you could say to your CFO, we lost."},{"startTime":931.1,"endTime":934.01,"body":"X number of dollars last"},{"startTime":931.1,"endTime":934.01,"body":"quarter, year, whatever."},{"startTime":934.16,"endTime":935.47,"body":"That's just a number, right?"},{"startTime":935.55,"endTime":936.18,"body":"That's data."},{"startTime":936.33,"endTime":941.07,"body":"You could say we lost that, but"},{"startTime":936.33,"endTime":941.07,"body":"we gained X, Y percent mindshare."},{"startTime":941.07,"endTime":942.95,"body":"Market share, mindshare,"},{"startTime":941.07,"endTime":942.95,"body":"whatever it might be."},{"startTime":942.95,"endTime":945.98,"body":"If you're a brand new company, you"},{"startTime":942.95,"endTime":945.98,"body":"lose money, but you gain mindshare."},{"startTime":946.23,"endTime":951.42,"body":"The CFO isn't necessarily judging you"},{"startTime":946.23,"endTime":951.42,"body":"on the former, because maybe, maybe"},{"startTime":951.63,"endTime":955.61,"body":"the VCs, they want you to get mindshare"},{"startTime":951.63,"endTime":955.61,"body":"now, so you can capitalize on it later."},{"startTime":955.9,"endTime":958.62,"body":"So data is all about"},{"startTime":955.9,"endTime":958.62,"body":"context without context."},{"startTime":958.62,"endTime":959.79,"body":"Data means nothing."},{"startTime":959.94,"endTime":961.9,"body":"I think of all the companies that"},{"startTime":959.94,"endTime":961.9,"body":"are out there, they're like, we're"},{"startTime":961.9,"endTime":965.33,"body":"just trying to build stuff and make"},{"startTime":961.9,"endTime":965.33,"body":"customers happy and like numbers, what"},{"startTime":965.33,"endTime":970.26,"body":"number is like, I've seen that in, in"},{"startTime":965.33,"endTime":970.26,"body":"financial reports in projections too."},{"startTime":970.41,"endTime":974.95,"body":"Oh man, they disguise them under"},{"startTime":970.41,"endTime":974.95,"body":"these things being forward looking"},{"startTime":974.95,"endTime":978.32,"body":"statements, speaking of disguising"},{"startTime":974.95,"endTime":978.32,"body":"things, let's move on to bullet point."},{"startTime":978.32,"endTime":980.61,"body":"Number five, risk management can wait."},{"startTime":980.76,"endTime":982.28,"body":"Focus on profits."},{"startTime":982.43,"endTime":986.89,"body":"This is all short term thinking"},{"startTime":982.43,"endTime":986.89,"body":"right here, AKA the Silicon Valley"},{"startTime":986.89,"endTime":991.16,"body":"strategy right here, which is like,"},{"startTime":986.89,"endTime":991.16,"body":"Hey man, expand your questionable"},{"startTime":991.18,"endTime":993.7,"body":"cab service into this new city."},{"startTime":993.85,"endTime":997.69,"body":"Don't worry about their laws or licensing"},{"startTime":993.85,"endTime":997.69,"body":"or whatever , I think like in the UK"},{"startTime":997.69,"endTime":1000.3,"body":"to like, have like a I can't remember"},{"startTime":997.69,"endTime":1000.3,"body":"what they're called, like the, the"},{"startTime":1000.3,"endTime":1003.82,"body":"black car taxis, the black cabs, the"},{"startTime":1000.3,"endTime":1003.82,"body":"black cabs, like you have to have a"},{"startTime":1003.82,"endTime":1007.45,"body":"special license and  Oh, we'll just"},{"startTime":1003.82,"endTime":1007.45,"body":"create our own like Uber black cab"},{"startTime":1007.48,"endTime":1008.77,"body":"and we'll just drive around the UK."},{"startTime":1008.78,"endTime":1011.58,"body":"Like you can't just do that, man"},{"startTime":1008.78,"endTime":1011.58,"body":"you, I mean, yeah, first of all,"},{"startTime":1011.64,"endTime":1013.68,"body":"yes, you can, you can just do that."},{"startTime":1013.97,"endTime":1017.37,"body":"But yeah, this is an interesting"},{"startTime":1013.97,"endTime":1017.37,"body":"one because Maybe I'm going"},{"startTime":1017.37,"endTime":1018.51,"body":"to take the other side of it."},{"startTime":1018.58,"endTime":1018.88,"body":"Okay."},{"startTime":1018.9,"endTime":1023.69,"body":"Maybe you can do that because all you"},{"startTime":1018.9,"endTime":1023.69,"body":"want to do is just to show that you've"},{"startTime":1023.69,"endTime":1028.15,"body":"got presence in the UK with these"},{"startTime":1023.69,"endTime":1028.15,"body":"black taxis of yours, enough where"},{"startTime":1028.17,"endTime":1030.64,"body":"your VCs could give you round two."},{"startTime":1030.79,"endTime":1031.15,"body":"Right."},{"startTime":1031.37,"endTime":1036.27,"body":"So if that's your goal to secure round"},{"startTime":1031.37,"endTime":1036.27,"body":"two funding to heck with the risk, to"},{"startTime":1036.27,"endTime":1038.59,"body":"heck with anything, just get it out there."},{"startTime":1038.88,"endTime":1039.14,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":1039.48,"endTime":1043.8,"body":"And you've seen that I don't know if this"},{"startTime":1039.48,"endTime":1043.8,"body":"is contained to Silicon Valley, or if"},{"startTime":1043.8,"endTime":1048.26,"body":"this is, I think, it's definitely, let me"},{"startTime":1043.8,"endTime":1048.26,"body":"think about how to say this, this strategy"},{"startTime":1048.26,"endTime":1049.93,"body":"is definitely more in their wheelhouse."},{"startTime":1049.99,"endTime":1054.73,"body":"This is a regularly accepted thing"},{"startTime":1049.99,"endTime":1054.73,"body":"in Silicon Valley, in fact, there was"},{"startTime":1054.73,"endTime":1058.38,"body":"a recording, which I think we should"},{"startTime":1054.73,"endTime":1058.38,"body":"do a whole podcast reaction to the"},{"startTime":1058.38,"endTime":1061.46,"body":"recording because recording is only"},{"startTime":1058.38,"endTime":1061.46,"body":"45 minutes where Eric Schmidt was"},{"startTime":1061.46,"endTime":1065.89,"body":"speaking, who was the, he was the CEO of"},{"startTime":1061.46,"endTime":1065.89,"body":"Alphabet, which is the parent of Google."},{"startTime":1065.89,"endTime":1066.07,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":1066.22,"endTime":1069.53,"body":"And he was speaking at Stanford to,"},{"startTime":1066.22,"endTime":1069.53,"body":"I think it was a class of product"},{"startTime":1069.56,"endTime":1072.1,"body":"managers might be wrong about that,"},{"startTime":1069.56,"endTime":1072.1,"body":"but I think, I think that's who it was."},{"startTime":1072.1,"endTime":1072.36,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":1072.53,"endTime":1076.12,"body":"And he told them something along"},{"startTime":1072.53,"endTime":1076.12,"body":"the lines of this, which is break"},{"startTime":1076.12,"endTime":1080.46,"body":"in, conquer the market, figure"},{"startTime":1076.12,"endTime":1080.46,"body":"out the legal legalese later."},{"startTime":1080.61,"endTime":1082.28,"body":"Yeah I mean, it was almost verbatim."},{"startTime":1082.47,"endTime":1085.43,"body":"I almost want to, I really"},{"startTime":1082.47,"endTime":1085.43,"body":"wanted to like play that video."},{"startTime":1085.43,"endTime":1087.28,"body":"It sort of breaks our working"},{"startTime":1085.43,"endTime":1087.28,"body":"agreement, so I haven't pushed it,"},{"startTime":1087.28,"endTime":1091.17,"body":"but I almost want to play that video,"},{"startTime":1087.28,"endTime":1091.17,"body":"like in the middle of our window here"},{"startTime":1091.17,"endTime":1094.33,"body":"with the podcast and just have video"},{"startTime":1091.17,"endTime":1094.33,"body":"playing and we'll just react to it."},{"startTime":1094.435,"endTime":1095.245,"body":"That was a good one."},{"startTime":1095.245,"endTime":1096.315,"body":"Yeah, I kind of want to do that."},{"startTime":1096.315,"endTime":1098.065,"body":"I think it would be a really fun podcast."},{"startTime":1098.095,"endTime":1100.375,"body":"and it would be worth like people that"},{"startTime":1098.095,"endTime":1100.375,"body":"listen to this podcast, it would be"},{"startTime":1100.375,"endTime":1103.665,"body":"worth them to listen to the whole video"},{"startTime":1100.375,"endTime":1103.665,"body":"because if you're a product manager or"},{"startTime":1103.665,"endTime":1108.035,"body":"if you're in the business agility space"},{"startTime":1103.665,"endTime":1108.035,"body":"or whatever, it is important to think how"},{"startTime":1108.185,"endTime":1112.415,"body":"people like that, like people that run the"},{"startTime":1108.185,"endTime":1112.415,"body":"holding company of Google, like how they"},{"startTime":1112.415,"endTime":1114.345,"body":"think which is breaking a new business."},{"startTime":1114.625,"endTime":1117.795,"body":"Dominate the market, let the lawyers"},{"startTime":1114.625,"endTime":1117.795,"body":"figure out if it was legal after"},{"startTime":1117.795,"endTime":1118.955,"body":"you did it and made a profit."},{"startTime":1119.105,"endTime":1120.615,"body":"I think there's something"},{"startTime":1119.105,"endTime":1120.615,"body":"to be said for that."},{"startTime":1120.615,"endTime":1123.705,"body":"Listen, I'm on that side of it"},{"startTime":1120.615,"endTime":1123.705,"body":"because if you did that, what's"},{"startTime":1123.705,"endTime":1125.225,"body":"the worst that would happen, right?"},{"startTime":1125.375,"endTime":1127.435,"body":"People will say, well"},{"startTime":1125.375,"endTime":1127.435,"body":"there's this thing going on."},{"startTime":1127.475,"endTime":1130.685,"body":"The lawyers would take years"},{"startTime":1127.475,"endTime":1130.685,"body":"to figure it out, right?"},{"startTime":1130.815,"endTime":1134.395,"body":"In the meantime, time is of the essence"},{"startTime":1130.815,"endTime":1134.395,"body":"when it comes to capturing the market,"},{"startTime":1134.405,"endTime":1135.715,"body":"entering and capturing a market."},{"startTime":1135.865,"endTime":1139.005,"body":"So if you can get ahead of that"},{"startTime":1135.865,"endTime":1139.005,"body":"in terms of time and yes, while"},{"startTime":1139.005,"endTime":1140.465,"body":"there's this legal thing looming."},{"startTime":1140.615,"endTime":1145.185,"body":"People will get attention initially on"},{"startTime":1140.615,"endTime":1145.185,"body":"that and then it will just pass, right?"},{"startTime":1145.315,"endTime":1148.375,"body":"And yes, the lawyers will be fighting"},{"startTime":1145.315,"endTime":1148.375,"body":"it out in the background and eventually"},{"startTime":1148.375,"endTime":1151.375,"body":"it'll get settled and nobody to"},{"startTime":1148.375,"endTime":1151.375,"body":"hear about it But at the same time"},{"startTime":1151.415,"endTime":1155.035,"body":"risk management is a term that"},{"startTime":1151.415,"endTime":1155.035,"body":"encapsulates so much under that umbrella"},{"startTime":1155.035,"endTime":1159.005,"body":"So maybe what about launching a"},{"startTime":1155.035,"endTime":1159.005,"body":"product that isn't really Perfect"},{"startTime":1159.015,"endTime":1160.675,"body":"for the market It falls short."},{"startTime":1160.695,"endTime":1162.795,"body":"It maybe only serves 50%."},{"startTime":1163.025,"endTime":1166.785,"body":"It's got rough edges all over"},{"startTime":1163.025,"endTime":1166.785,"body":"It's risky from that perspective."},{"startTime":1166.875,"endTime":1169.435,"body":"You don't know what you don't know"},{"startTime":1166.875,"endTime":1169.435,"body":"about how people will be using that."},{"startTime":1169.585,"endTime":1170.685,"body":"Get it out there anyway."},{"startTime":1170.835,"endTime":1172.565,"body":"Get it out there and let people use it."},{"startTime":1172.605,"endTime":1175.215,"body":"And if they use it in a way they're"},{"startTime":1172.605,"endTime":1175.215,"body":"not supposed to, guess what?"},{"startTime":1175.365,"endTime":1177.995,"body":"You learn that and version 2"},{"startTime":1175.365,"endTime":1177.995,"body":"can come out a little later."},{"startTime":1178.015,"endTime":1181.275,"body":"This is funny because we, we"},{"startTime":1178.015,"endTime":1181.275,"body":"we're agreeing with what he's"},{"startTime":1181.275,"endTime":1183.155,"body":"claiming is a lie in this category."},{"startTime":1183.215,"endTime":1183.815,"body":"I think so."},{"startTime":1183.815,"endTime":1187.205,"body":"He says the lie is risk management can"},{"startTime":1183.815,"endTime":1187.205,"body":"focus on products focus on profits."},{"startTime":1187.405,"endTime":1188.605,"body":"we're sort of saying, no, no, no, no."},{"startTime":1188.605,"endTime":1189.385,"body":"You're wrong about that."},{"startTime":1189.395,"endTime":1190.065,"body":"No, it's not a lie."},{"startTime":1190.065,"endTime":1192.715,"body":"This is the, it is the way"},{"startTime":1190.065,"endTime":1192.715,"body":"that most people do business."},{"startTime":1192.715,"endTime":1193.201,"body":"Right?"},{"startTime":1193.251,"endTime":1196.961,"body":"Let me, try to defend his point of risk"},{"startTime":1193.251,"endTime":1196.961,"body":"management can wait focus on profits."},{"startTime":1197.041,"endTime":1200.631,"body":"That's great that you have that"},{"startTime":1197.041,"endTime":1200.631,"body":"viewpoint that, Hey,  risk management."},{"startTime":1200.641,"endTime":1201.401,"body":"Forget about that."},{"startTime":1201.401,"endTime":1205.241,"body":"We'll figure it out in three to"},{"startTime":1201.401,"endTime":1205.241,"body":"seven years when, when all the legal"},{"startTime":1205.241,"endTime":1209.361,"body":"battles, subside and all the news"},{"startTime":1205.241,"endTime":1209.361,"body":"media beating us up subside and we"},{"startTime":1209.361,"endTime":1213.551,"body":"can just pay some settlement costs"},{"startTime":1209.361,"endTime":1213.551,"body":"and we'll eat a sausage and everything"},{"startTime":1213.551,"endTime":1217.091,"body":"will be all right lawyers, I don't"},{"startTime":1213.551,"endTime":1217.091,"body":"know how they handle this stuff but."},{"startTime":1217.241,"endTime":1218.011,"body":"Yeah, that's great."},{"startTime":1218.021,"endTime":1221.571,"body":"But there is some survivorship"},{"startTime":1218.021,"endTime":1221.571,"body":"bias happening in that example,"},{"startTime":1221.741,"endTime":1226.691,"body":"because 95 percent of the companies,"},{"startTime":1221.741,"endTime":1226.691,"body":"they don't get to become so big"},{"startTime":1226.741,"endTime":1228.081,"body":"95 percent of the companies get."},{"startTime":1228.231,"endTime":1230.061,"body":"sued out of existence."},{"startTime":1230.141,"endTime":1234.491,"body":"So like the Eric Schmid's of the world,"},{"startTime":1230.141,"endTime":1234.491,"body":"the people that run alphabet who have"},{"startTime":1234.491,"endTime":1239.381,"body":"Google with a profit amount larger"},{"startTime":1234.491,"endTime":1239.381,"body":"than some countries, GDPs, they can"},{"startTime":1239.381,"endTime":1241.931,"body":"afford to do this and be super shady."},{"startTime":1242.081,"endTime":1245.431,"body":"But the CFO who's saying,"},{"startTime":1242.081,"endTime":1245.431,"body":"listen you guys are engaging"},{"startTime":1245.431,"endTime":1247.851,"body":"in some super risky strategies."},{"startTime":1248.091,"endTime":1253.461,"body":"We need to de leverage ourselves"},{"startTime":1248.091,"endTime":1253.461,"body":"and not do this real risky stuff"},{"startTime":1253.581,"endTime":1256.601,"body":"in these market segments where"},{"startTime":1253.581,"endTime":1256.601,"body":"we're obviously breaking the law."},{"startTime":1256.751,"endTime":1258.461,"body":"Okay on that, on that side of it."},{"startTime":1258.771,"endTime":1262.111,"body":"For the rest of us and by"},{"startTime":1258.771,"endTime":1262.111,"body":"rest of us, I mean 95 percent"},{"startTime":1262.111,"endTime":1262.931,"body":"of the companies out there."},{"startTime":1262.991,"endTime":1263.181,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":1263.181,"endTime":1267.041,"body":"He's right you probably shouldn't just"},{"startTime":1263.181,"endTime":1267.041,"body":"decide to run black cabs through London"},{"startTime":1267.051,"endTime":1268.941,"body":"and be like, yeah, license Schmeichens."},{"startTime":1268.971,"endTime":1270.081,"body":"We don't need any of that."},{"startTime":1270.171,"endTime":1275.071,"body":"if you're the silverback gorilla in the"},{"startTime":1270.171,"endTime":1275.071,"body":"market, you can get away with it for sure."},{"startTime":1275.326,"endTime":1277.776,"body":"In the case of Eric Schmidt,"},{"startTime":1275.326,"endTime":1277.776,"body":"yes, of course, right?"},{"startTime":1277.786,"endTime":1279.336,"body":"They can, they can afford to do this."},{"startTime":1279.666,"endTime":1284.486,"body":"So either the companies get sued out"},{"startTime":1279.666,"endTime":1284.486,"body":"of existence or they will fold up"},{"startTime":1284.506,"endTime":1286.106,"body":"or they will sell up or whatever."},{"startTime":1286.356,"endTime":1289.446,"body":"But they will somehow deal with"},{"startTime":1286.356,"endTime":1289.446,"body":"this risk if they decide to"},{"startTime":1289.486,"endTime":1290.866,"body":"take the plunge in this way."},{"startTime":1291.016,"endTime":1294.116,"body":"Not that we're recommending that,"},{"startTime":1291.016,"endTime":1294.116,"body":"if your profits are so big that"},{"startTime":1294.116,"endTime":1297.666,"body":"you could afford an army of lawyers"},{"startTime":1294.116,"endTime":1297.666,"body":"to defend this, then go for it."},{"startTime":1298.016,"endTime":1300.286,"body":"So it's all about context again."},{"startTime":1300.326,"endTime":1300.616,"body":"Right?"},{"startTime":1300.616,"endTime":1304.756,"body":"So if you're just a regular company,"},{"startTime":1300.616,"endTime":1304.756,"body":"not a Google or an alphabet, you"},{"startTime":1304.756,"endTime":1309.066,"body":"probably should listen to your CFO"},{"startTime":1304.756,"endTime":1309.066,"body":"and he, if you don't, he's probably"},{"startTime":1309.066,"endTime":1310.786,"body":"got his resume updated, just saying."},{"startTime":1310.936,"endTime":1312.886,"body":"These guys move around pretty quickly."},{"startTime":1312.906,"endTime":1313.736,"body":"He definitely does."},{"startTime":1313.786,"endTime":1315.076,"body":"Alright, so risk management."},{"startTime":1315.096,"endTime":1317.416,"body":"Talking about risk management,"},{"startTime":1315.096,"endTime":1317.416,"body":"talking about being sketchy"},{"startTime":1317.466,"endTime":1318.676,"body":"leads us into point number six."},{"startTime":1318.676,"endTime":1322.506,"body":"Short term gains justify"},{"startTime":1318.676,"endTime":1322.506,"body":"ethical compromises."},{"startTime":1322.656,"endTime":1324.066,"body":"I mean, that basically speaks for itself."},{"startTime":1324.066,"endTime":1330.716,"body":"What you do to show a profit quarter"},{"startTime":1324.066,"endTime":1330.716,"body":"over quarter like irrespective of other"},{"startTime":1330.866,"endTime":1334.756,"body":"Quarters of a long term or whatever"},{"startTime":1330.866,"endTime":1334.756,"body":"like we both talk many times on the"},{"startTime":1334.756,"endTime":1339.296,"body":"podcast We've talked about it's super"},{"startTime":1334.756,"endTime":1339.296,"body":"easy to show accordingly like cool book"},{"startTime":1339.306,"endTime":1343.006,"body":"all my work that came in this quarter"},{"startTime":1339.306,"endTime":1343.006,"body":"and then fire half my staff and then"},{"startTime":1343.006,"endTime":1347.076,"body":"it'll look like We're amazing on paper"},{"startTime":1343.006,"endTime":1347.076,"body":"Buy another yacht super easy and then"},{"startTime":1347.076,"endTime":1349.666,"body":"we'll spend the next two years trying"},{"startTime":1347.076,"endTime":1349.666,"body":"to figure out how we're Like we don't"},{"startTime":1349.666,"endTime":1353.206,"body":"have anyone to work on this contract"},{"startTime":1349.666,"endTime":1353.206,"body":"that we just booked and yikes that's"},{"startTime":1353.206,"endTime":1355.156,"body":"someone else's problem We got our yachts."},{"startTime":1355.246,"endTime":1355.706,"body":"That's right."},{"startTime":1355.726,"endTime":1356.336,"body":"See you later."},{"startTime":1356.386,"endTime":1361.236,"body":"Yeah, and again, unfortunately We"},{"startTime":1356.386,"endTime":1361.236,"body":"know this is pretty common out there"},{"startTime":1361.236,"endTime":1365.476,"body":"Unlike the last category this one."},{"startTime":1365.626,"endTime":1365.836,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":1365.986,"endTime":1367.846,"body":"Yeah, there's no benefits of this one"},{"startTime":1367.996,"endTime":1371.536,"body":"and if you're one of those people who"},{"startTime":1367.996,"endTime":1371.536,"body":"engages in this thinking, you're just"},{"startTime":1371.536,"endTime":1375.246,"body":"going to basically hop around and collect"},{"startTime":1371.536,"endTime":1375.246,"body":"your millions, it catches up with you"},{"startTime":1375.246,"endTime":1380.416,"body":"quickly because reputation doesn't just"},{"startTime":1375.246,"endTime":1380.416,"body":"follow you in these situations, reputation"},{"startTime":1380.416,"endTime":1382.146,"body":"will catch up with you and overtake you."},{"startTime":1382.161,"endTime":1382.911,"body":"Pretty quickly."},{"startTime":1382.911,"endTime":1385.011,"body":"So you find yourself out of gigs soon."},{"startTime":1385.251,"endTime":1385.431,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":1385.671,"endTime":1388.821,"body":"So yeah, this is, this is one that"},{"startTime":1385.671,"endTime":1388.821,"body":"I think we can agree that's, yeah."},{"startTime":1388.821,"endTime":1392.151,"body":"it's as a CFO when you hear"},{"startTime":1388.821,"endTime":1392.151,"body":"this, is this really a lie?"},{"startTime":1392.151,"endTime":1394.161,"body":"Short term gauge justify"},{"startTime":1392.151,"endTime":1394.161,"body":"ethical companies?"},{"startTime":1394.161,"endTime":1397.111,"body":"I mean I'm, I'm sure it does at some"},{"startTime":1394.161,"endTime":1397.111,"body":"companies that,  they're in survival"},{"startTime":1397.111,"endTime":1400.091,"body":"mode but they're like you like to"},{"startTime":1397.111,"endTime":1400.091,"body":"say, they're circling the drain."},{"startTime":1400.356,"endTime":1403.046,"body":"They are, they are a moribund company."},{"startTime":1403.196,"endTime":1403.886,"body":"That's what they are."},{"startTime":1404.136,"endTime":1406.896,"body":"Okay, well number seven"},{"startTime":1404.136,"endTime":1406.896,"body":"is pegged as a lie."},{"startTime":1406.896,"endTime":1410.076,"body":"It says technology won't"},{"startTime":1406.896,"endTime":1410.076,"body":"improve financial operations."},{"startTime":1410.226,"endTime":1413.506,"body":"I don't, I don't this one might"},{"startTime":1410.226,"endTime":1413.506,"body":"need a little context because I, I I"},{"startTime":1413.516,"endTime":1414.696,"body":"could be on either side of this one."},{"startTime":1414.696,"endTime":1416.276,"body":"Which side would you want to"},{"startTime":1414.696,"endTime":1416.276,"body":"be on this one, with this one?"},{"startTime":1416.286,"endTime":1417.586,"body":"I'll be on the CFO side."},{"startTime":1417.586,"endTime":1417.996,"body":"Okay."},{"startTime":1418.146,"endTime":1419.976,"body":"So I'm saying why invest?"},{"startTime":1419.976,"endTime":1421.906,"body":"Why pump more money in technology?"},{"startTime":1422.056,"endTime":1425.686,"body":"When you're trying to improve"},{"startTime":1422.056,"endTime":1425.686,"body":"your your financial ops, right?"},{"startTime":1425.686,"endTime":1428.336,"body":"Why it's just, everything is a drain."},{"startTime":1428.626,"endTime":1432.836,"body":"So technology, I'm going to buy new"},{"startTime":1428.626,"endTime":1432.836,"body":"systems or new, which will require"},{"startTime":1432.886,"endTime":1434.646,"body":"new skill sets that I have to pay for."},{"startTime":1434.706,"endTime":1436.006,"body":"I'm not on board with all of that."},{"startTime":1436.156,"endTime":1437.946,"body":"How is it going to"},{"startTime":1436.156,"endTime":1437.946,"body":"improve my financial ops?"},{"startTime":1438.016,"endTime":1438.586,"body":"Well, wait a minute."},{"startTime":1438.616,"endTime":1439.646,"body":"That, but that's a lie."},{"startTime":1439.706,"endTime":1440.276,"body":"That's the lie."},{"startTime":1440.276,"endTime":1444.526,"body":"So like he's saying that technology"},{"startTime":1440.276,"endTime":1444.526,"body":"will improve your financial."},{"startTime":1444.556,"endTime":1448.646,"body":"So if finance, if technology is not going"},{"startTime":1444.556,"endTime":1448.646,"body":"to improve your financial operations,"},{"startTime":1448.796,"endTime":1454.696,"body":"like the idea is you can implement"},{"startTime":1448.796,"endTime":1454.696,"body":"some technological improvements to"},{"startTime":1454.846,"endTime":1458.786,"body":"make it easier to deal with finances"},{"startTime":1454.846,"endTime":1458.786,"body":"I worked at a company one time where"},{"startTime":1458.786,"endTime":1462.676,"body":"we rolled our own, billing system,"},{"startTime":1458.786,"endTime":1462.676,"body":"basically it was backed by great plan."},{"startTime":1462.676,"endTime":1465.596,"body":"So it wasn't really truly roll"},{"startTime":1462.676,"endTime":1465.596,"body":"your own, but the actual system"},{"startTime":1465.596,"endTime":1469.216,"body":"that sent out invoices to"},{"startTime":1465.596,"endTime":1469.216,"body":"customers was completely custom."},{"startTime":1469.266,"endTime":1473.226,"body":"We rolled our own system because"},{"startTime":1469.266,"endTime":1473.226,"body":"it was what we needed at the"},{"startTime":1473.226,"endTime":1474.516,"body":"time when we built the system."},{"startTime":1474.516,"endTime":1476.296,"body":"This was many years ago."},{"startTime":1476.306,"endTime":1479.096,"body":"This is not like in the last two"},{"startTime":1476.306,"endTime":1479.096,"body":"years where I would never build it"},{"startTime":1479.246,"endTime":1483.096,"body":"basically a billing and invoicing"},{"startTime":1479.246,"endTime":1483.096,"body":"system there was nothing robust enough."},{"startTime":1483.336,"endTime":1486.406,"body":"And, customizable enough back in"},{"startTime":1483.336,"endTime":1486.406,"body":"the day when we built the system."},{"startTime":1486.556,"endTime":1491.026,"body":"But we built this system to be able"},{"startTime":1486.556,"endTime":1491.026,"body":"to generate invoices When customers"},{"startTime":1491.036,"endTime":1492.576,"body":"incurred charges, basically."},{"startTime":1492.726,"endTime":1494.636,"body":"It would invoice the"},{"startTime":1492.726,"endTime":1494.636,"body":"customers for the charges."},{"startTime":1494.686,"endTime":1497.189,"body":"so that the company could get paid faster."},{"startTime":1497.259,"endTime":1501.429,"body":"we did create a technology"},{"startTime":1497.259,"endTime":1501.429,"body":"solution that improved operations."},{"startTime":1501.604,"endTime":1507.054,"body":"The financial operations that we approved"},{"startTime":1501.604,"endTime":1507.054,"body":"were things didn't have to sit in AR"},{"startTime":1507.064,"endTime":1508.774,"body":"for Yeah, you improved your AR cycle."},{"startTime":1508.774,"endTime":1513.044,"body":"things didn't have to sit"},{"startTime":1508.774,"endTime":1513.044,"body":"in AR for 60, 90 days."},{"startTime":1513.194,"endTime":1515.004,"body":"Things sat in AR for a week or two."},{"startTime":1515.154,"endTime":1518.294,"body":"And that was a big advantage to"},{"startTime":1515.154,"endTime":1518.294,"body":"the company, bringing that overhead"},{"startTime":1518.294,"endTime":1521.034,"body":"of floating money things that have"},{"startTime":1518.294,"endTime":1521.034,"body":"been delivered, but haven't been"},{"startTime":1521.034,"endTime":1525.514,"body":"paid for bringing it down  I mean,"},{"startTime":1521.034,"endTime":1525.514,"body":"that was millions of dollars."},{"startTime":1525.664,"endTime":1530.804,"body":"So I don't know how many, let's just 10"},{"startTime":1525.664,"endTime":1530.804,"body":"ish million dollar software right there."},{"startTime":1530.954,"endTime":1533.904,"body":"That's real money that the"},{"startTime":1530.954,"endTime":1533.904,"body":"company could collect sooner"},{"startTime":1534.104,"endTime":1535.344,"body":"because we built something again."},{"startTime":1535.354,"endTime":1536.404,"body":"that was like 20 years ago."},{"startTime":1536.404,"endTime":1538.134,"body":"So it'll pay for itself in no time."},{"startTime":1538.204,"endTime":1539.594,"body":"Well, no, it certainly did."},{"startTime":1539.594,"endTime":1541.674,"body":"Cause it was, it was built"},{"startTime":1539.594,"endTime":1541.674,"body":"by a team of like two."},{"startTime":1541.744,"endTime":1542.494,"body":"Yeah, yeah, yeah."},{"startTime":1542.644,"endTime":1546.584,"body":"So the only kind of point in"},{"startTime":1542.644,"endTime":1546.584,"body":"the other column, so to speak of"},{"startTime":1546.584,"endTime":1549.724,"body":"that would be if you're rolling"},{"startTime":1546.584,"endTime":1549.724,"body":"your own, you have to support it."},{"startTime":1549.954,"endTime":1550.304,"body":"Right."},{"startTime":1550.404,"endTime":1551.664,"body":"But again, not a big deal."},{"startTime":1551.734,"endTime":1555.344,"body":"Bolting it onto an existing"},{"startTime":1551.734,"endTime":1555.344,"body":"backbone that's third party,"},{"startTime":1555.404,"endTime":1556.684,"body":"like Great Plains or whatever."},{"startTime":1556.834,"endTime":1560.304,"body":"That's where your risk is because if, if"},{"startTime":1556.834,"endTime":1560.304,"body":"that company goes under, you're toast."},{"startTime":1560.324,"endTime":1563.204,"body":"Now you've got to build something"},{"startTime":1560.324,"endTime":1563.204,"body":"from scratch, but all of that is just,"},{"startTime":1563.224,"endTime":1565.344,"body":"these are weak points against, I guess."},{"startTime":1565.354,"endTime":1565.654,"body":"Right."},{"startTime":1565.934,"endTime":1569.274,"body":"The other side of the coin would"},{"startTime":1565.934,"endTime":1569.274,"body":"be, okay, well, we were doing all"},{"startTime":1569.274,"endTime":1571.474,"body":"these things in our Financial house."},{"startTime":1571.814,"endTime":1574.204,"body":"Why don't we just simply"},{"startTime":1571.814,"endTime":1574.204,"body":"this is today, right?"},{"startTime":1574.204,"endTime":1575.934,"body":"So you could simply outsource it all."},{"startTime":1576.084,"endTime":1576.644,"body":"Yeah, right."},{"startTime":1576.694,"endTime":1578.564,"body":"And let someone else"},{"startTime":1576.694,"endTime":1578.564,"body":"take care of all of that."},{"startTime":1578.764,"endTime":1581.974,"body":"Accounts payable, accounts receivable,"},{"startTime":1578.764,"endTime":1581.974,"body":"payroll, all of that and I will"},{"startTime":1581.974,"endTime":1585.144,"body":"tell you there was a period of time"},{"startTime":1581.974,"endTime":1585.144,"body":"with that particular system that the"},{"startTime":1585.144,"endTime":1589.144,"body":"strategy was The original developers"},{"startTime":1585.144,"endTime":1589.144,"body":"who developed it left the company."},{"startTime":1589.294,"endTime":1590.944,"body":"We had nobody who understood the system."},{"startTime":1591.094,"endTime":1595.144,"body":"We did outsource the development and"},{"startTime":1591.094,"endTime":1595.144,"body":"maintenance of the system for a while."},{"startTime":1595.404,"endTime":1596.794,"body":"Then we brought it back in house."},{"startTime":1596.944,"endTime":1601.734,"body":"And when we did this, We had to bring"},{"startTime":1596.944,"endTime":1601.734,"body":"it back in house because we needed to"},{"startTime":1601.734,"endTime":1606.184,"body":"make updates more rapidly through the"},{"startTime":1601.734,"endTime":1606.184,"body":"system than the offshore development"},{"startTime":1606.194,"endTime":1609.994,"body":"cycle, to make for example some of the"},{"startTime":1606.194,"endTime":1609.994,"body":"updates we had to make to the system,"},{"startTime":1610.144,"endTime":1615.824,"body":"we had to be able to charge tax in the"},{"startTime":1610.144,"endTime":1615.824,"body":"localities in which the tax was incurred."},{"startTime":1615.974,"endTime":1616.304,"body":"Okay."},{"startTime":1616.454,"endTime":1620.994,"body":"We had to be able to apply"},{"startTime":1616.454,"endTime":1620.994,"body":"discounts and more dynamic pricing."},{"startTime":1621.334,"endTime":1622.284,"body":"To different customers."},{"startTime":1622.294,"endTime":1624.974,"body":"So one pricing didn't fit"},{"startTime":1622.294,"endTime":1624.974,"body":"all customers over time."},{"startTime":1625.274,"endTime":1628.074,"body":"Because of the sales relationship with"},{"startTime":1625.274,"endTime":1628.074,"body":"different customers develop because"},{"startTime":1628.074,"endTime":1631.764,"body":"of volume, some customers were small,"},{"startTime":1628.074,"endTime":1631.764,"body":"some customers were big, so system"},{"startTime":1631.764,"endTime":1634.254,"body":"needed to change to handle that all,"},{"startTime":1631.764,"endTime":1634.254,"body":"all these kinds of little things"},{"startTime":1634.544,"endTime":1639.634,"body":"the forced the system from like"},{"startTime":1634.544,"endTime":1639.634,"body":"a, sort of like a maintain state"},{"startTime":1639.764,"endTime":1642.394,"body":"it's a grow, maintain, and sunset."},{"startTime":1642.454,"endTime":1647.314,"body":"It, it, it forced the software from"},{"startTime":1642.454,"endTime":1647.314,"body":"a maintain back into a grow state."},{"startTime":1647.464,"endTime":1651.044,"body":"the technology in that case, Improved"},{"startTime":1647.464,"endTime":1651.044,"body":"our financial operations, because"},{"startTime":1651.044,"endTime":1654.294,"body":"what would happen is you'd run all the"},{"startTime":1651.044,"endTime":1654.294,"body":"transactions through great planes, and"},{"startTime":1654.294,"endTime":1655.874,"body":"then some accountant would have to go."},{"startTime":1656.024,"endTime":1661.294,"body":"Figure out where the cost was"},{"startTime":1656.024,"endTime":1661.294,"body":"incurred, what city, state, locality,"},{"startTime":1661.444,"endTime":1666.674,"body":"municipality, special tax district,"},{"startTime":1661.444,"endTime":1666.674,"body":"stuff like that, apply the changes."},{"startTime":1666.929,"endTime":1668.249,"body":"And it was a lot of manual stuff."},{"startTime":1668.399,"endTime":1670.949,"body":"It's just like people that run"},{"startTime":1668.399,"endTime":1670.949,"body":"payroll, it's like you're gonna"},{"startTime":1670.949,"endTime":1673.859,"body":"run payroll and you're gonna apply"},{"startTime":1670.949,"endTime":1673.859,"body":"a bunch of manual stuff to pay."},{"startTime":1673.859,"endTime":1677.259,"body":"Like if you're running payroll and you"},{"startTime":1673.859,"endTime":1677.259,"body":"are in a company where everyone lives"},{"startTime":1677.259,"endTime":1680.179,"body":"in different states, like a full-time"},{"startTime":1677.259,"endTime":1680.179,"body":"remote company  now you run payroll, you"},{"startTime":1680.179,"endTime":1681.319,"body":"gotta do a bunch of different things."},{"startTime":1681.319,"endTime":1683.539,"body":"It's not really that many different"},{"startTime":1681.319,"endTime":1683.539,"body":"things, but there are different"},{"startTime":1683.539,"endTime":1684.649,"body":"manual steps you gotta take."},{"startTime":1684.679,"endTime":1684.949,"body":"Sure."},{"startTime":1684.949,"endTime":1687.079,"body":"Well, it'd be better if the"},{"startTime":1684.949,"endTime":1687.079,"body":"software just supported that."},{"startTime":1687.229,"endTime":1689.789,"body":"And then just took care of all"},{"startTime":1687.229,"endTime":1689.789,"body":"those little business rules."},{"startTime":1689.859,"endTime":1694.439,"body":"the application of business rules the"},{"startTime":1689.859,"endTime":1694.439,"body":"asynchronous application of a bunch"},{"startTime":1694.439,"endTime":1698.339,"body":"of different business rules to a"},{"startTime":1694.439,"endTime":1698.339,"body":"synchronous process, running payroll."},{"startTime":1698.489,"endTime":1700.969,"body":"It's so much better when the"},{"startTime":1698.489,"endTime":1700.969,"body":"technology just deals with it for you."},{"startTime":1700.979,"endTime":1701.869,"body":"Absolutely right."},{"startTime":1701.899,"endTime":1706.159,"body":"And also in that example, keeping"},{"startTime":1701.899,"endTime":1706.159,"body":"up with all the changes, Right."},{"startTime":1706.229,"endTime":1707.829,"body":"Laws change every year, right?"},{"startTime":1707.869,"endTime":1709.129,"body":"Different states and whatnot."},{"startTime":1709.309,"endTime":1713.949,"body":"Listen, today the alternative is, is"},{"startTime":1709.309,"endTime":1713.949,"body":"outsource all of these ops, right?"},{"startTime":1713.979,"endTime":1714.619,"body":"Outsource."},{"startTime":1714.629,"endTime":1718.459,"body":"So companies, there are companies"},{"startTime":1714.629,"endTime":1718.459,"body":"that exist for the sole purpose of"},{"startTime":1718.509,"endTime":1723.069,"body":"Providing these services to small,"},{"startTime":1718.509,"endTime":1723.069,"body":"medium, even large companies, right?"},{"startTime":1723.069,"endTime":1727.119,"body":"So if you have a small company, 100"},{"startTime":1723.069,"endTime":1727.119,"body":"people or less, whatever, that want"},{"startTime":1727.119,"endTime":1731.359,"body":"to do payroll, AP, AR, all of these"},{"startTime":1727.119,"endTime":1731.359,"body":"things, you could do this in house."},{"startTime":1731.369,"endTime":1732.579,"body":"Or you could."},{"startTime":1732.729,"endTime":1737.169,"body":"Outsource it to companies like"},{"startTime":1732.729,"endTime":1737.169,"body":"Gusto or companies like that, right?"},{"startTime":1737.389,"endTime":1738.069,"body":"There are plenty."},{"startTime":1738.299,"endTime":1742.519,"body":"And you'll find It's actually more"},{"startTime":1738.299,"endTime":1742.519,"body":"economical to do that than to manage it"},{"startTime":1742.519,"endTime":1746.779,"body":"in house because they'll take care of all"},{"startTime":1742.519,"endTime":1746.779,"body":"of the different state nuances laws Etc,"},{"startTime":1746.779,"endTime":1749.139,"body":"but they'll also apply the latest ones."},{"startTime":1749.389,"endTime":1751.609,"body":"So every year you don't have"},{"startTime":1749.389,"endTime":1751.609,"body":"to go learn those, Right."},{"startTime":1751.659,"endTime":1753.989,"body":"And keep people on payroll"},{"startTime":1751.659,"endTime":1753.989,"body":"for that kind of thing."},{"startTime":1753.989,"endTime":1755.869,"body":"So for this one, yes, absolutely."},{"startTime":1755.869,"endTime":1758.479,"body":"Technology will improve financial ops."},{"startTime":1758.529,"endTime":1758.929,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":1759.029,"endTime":1759.269,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":1759.299,"endTime":1759.899,"body":"There's no doubt."},{"startTime":1759.909,"endTime":1761.009,"body":"Let's let the tech do that."},{"startTime":1761.039,"endTime":1763.719,"body":"I mean, again, we built systems for"},{"startTime":1761.039,"endTime":1763.719,"body":"this, but yeah, let the tech do that"},{"startTime":1763.759,"endTime":1768.549,"body":"for your people to deal with one"},{"startTime":1763.759,"endTime":1768.549,"body":"offs and problems and bugs and things"},{"startTime":1768.549,"endTime":1772.879,"body":"that Really increase user value and"},{"startTime":1768.549,"endTime":1772.879,"body":"increase the happiness of people when"},{"startTime":1772.879,"endTime":1776.009,"body":"people have problems someone's on it"},{"startTime":1772.879,"endTime":1776.009,"body":"They're making it their responsibility."},{"startTime":1776.009,"endTime":1777.339,"body":"They're seeing it through to the end."},{"startTime":1777.629,"endTime":1777.939,"body":"All right."},{"startTime":1777.939,"endTime":1782.129,"body":"So number eight a single bad hire"},{"startTime":1777.939,"endTime":1782.129,"body":"won't affect your finance team I mean"},{"startTime":1782.129,"endTime":1786.329,"body":"you can delete team from this one a"},{"startTime":1782.129,"endTime":1786.329,"body":"single bad hire won't affect your team."},{"startTime":1786.479,"endTime":1790.949,"body":"Well, that's obviously a lie That's a big"},{"startTime":1786.479,"endTime":1790.949,"body":"fat lie It is absolutely a big fat lie."},{"startTime":1790.959,"endTime":1793.009,"body":"I can't take the other side here, right?"},{"startTime":1793.129,"endTime":1795.779,"body":"I just can't I mean well I can't do it."},{"startTime":1795.829,"endTime":1799.939,"body":"Number nine, you have a budget"},{"startTime":1795.829,"endTime":1799.939,"body":"problem, not a strategy problem."},{"startTime":1800.019,"endTime":1800.939,"body":"This is interesting."},{"startTime":1801.164,"endTime":1802.074,"body":"This one's interesting."},{"startTime":1802.224,"endTime":1805.224,"body":"So a CFO is told that you have a"},{"startTime":1802.224,"endTime":1805.224,"body":"budget problem, not a strategy problem."},{"startTime":1805.374,"endTime":1805.804,"body":"Right?"},{"startTime":1805.954,"endTime":1806.994,"body":"Is that a lie?"},{"startTime":1807.144,"endTime":1808.114,"body":"You're a CFO."},{"startTime":1808.264,"endTime":1810.464,"body":"Budget is a tool."},{"startTime":1810.614,"endTime":1812.074,"body":"That's how I think of it, anyway."},{"startTime":1812.224,"endTime":1815.694,"body":"Strategy is something that"},{"startTime":1812.224,"endTime":1815.694,"body":"trumps budget all day long."},{"startTime":1815.904,"endTime":1816.784,"body":"For me."},{"startTime":1816.934,"endTime":1818.374,"body":"So, how is this?"},{"startTime":1818.524,"endTime":1819.514,"body":"How is this not a lie?"},{"startTime":1819.544,"endTime":1822.124,"body":"You have a budget problem,"},{"startTime":1819.544,"endTime":1822.124,"body":"not a strategy problem."},{"startTime":1822.274,"endTime":1822.894,"body":"That's a lie."},{"startTime":1823.044,"endTime":1827.094,"body":"You have a strategy problem that,"},{"startTime":1823.044,"endTime":1827.094,"body":"that shows up in your budget."},{"startTime":1827.244,"endTime":1828.334,"body":"That's how I like to think of it."},{"startTime":1828.484,"endTime":1833.744,"body":"I could see this from the perspective"},{"startTime":1828.484,"endTime":1833.744,"body":"of a CEO who is burning money"},{"startTime":1833.874,"endTime":1835.294,"body":"like it's going out of style."},{"startTime":1835.444,"endTime":1836.714,"body":"Burning money to stay warm."},{"startTime":1836.864,"endTime":1837.974,"body":"On assumptions."},{"startTime":1838.124,"endTime":1840.094,"body":"Strategy, untested strategies."},{"startTime":1840.254,"endTime":1843.104,"body":"we need to get in with"},{"startTime":1840.254,"endTime":1843.104,"body":"all these market segments."},{"startTime":1843.104,"endTime":1845.714,"body":"You know, I, I see that you're,"},{"startTime":1843.104,"endTime":1845.714,"body":"you're telling me I need to have"},{"startTime":1845.714,"endTime":1849.734,"body":"an an ideal customer profile, but I"},{"startTime":1845.714,"endTime":1849.734,"body":"think you, I think that's nonsense."},{"startTime":1849.764,"endTime":1853.974,"body":"I don't want to spend time doing"},{"startTime":1849.764,"endTime":1853.974,"body":"customer profiles and talking about what"},{"startTime":1853.974,"endTime":1855.524,"body":"customer needs and that kind of stuff."},{"startTime":1855.574,"endTime":1858.344,"body":"Every customer profile needs our software."},{"startTime":1858.494,"endTime":1862.144,"body":"So I'm attacking several different"},{"startTime":1858.494,"endTime":1862.144,"body":"markets and several different ideal"},{"startTime":1862.154,"endTime":1867.704,"body":"customer profiles and it's not landing"},{"startTime":1862.154,"endTime":1867.704,"body":"with any, this is every pre market fit,"},{"startTime":1867.904,"endTime":1873.154,"body":"company that I've ever seen that is just"},{"startTime":1867.904,"endTime":1873.154,"body":"flailing and have not dedicated themselves"},{"startTime":1873.154,"endTime":1876.604,"body":"to the problems of one Specific user."},{"startTime":1876.754,"endTime":1880.479,"body":"So the strategy is not focused,"},{"startTime":1876.754,"endTime":1880.479,"body":"is misguided or not defined?"},{"startTime":1880.539,"endTime":1881.044,"body":"Not focused."},{"startTime":1881.094,"endTime":1882.489,"body":"the strategy is not focused."},{"startTime":1882.489,"endTime":1886.069,"body":"or they've not niched down"},{"startTime":1882.489,"endTime":1886.069,"body":"their problem set to a specific"},{"startTime":1886.079,"endTime":1887.279,"body":"user, a specific problem."},{"startTime":1887.279,"endTime":1890.199,"body":"They've not done the Mike Miller"},{"startTime":1887.279,"endTime":1890.199,"body":"one to one to one type of thinking."},{"startTime":1890.469,"endTime":1892.109,"body":"They're trying to be"},{"startTime":1890.469,"endTime":1892.109,"body":"everything to everyone."},{"startTime":1892.169,"endTime":1893.619,"body":"or they don't have a strategy."},{"startTime":1893.769,"endTime":1896.319,"body":"They just have goals and"},{"startTime":1893.769,"endTime":1896.319,"body":"visions, which we have touched"},{"startTime":1896.319,"endTime":1898.089,"body":"on before on a different podcast."},{"startTime":1898.369,"endTime":1898.609,"body":"right."},{"startTime":1898.659,"endTime":1899.259,"body":"please."},{"startTime":1899.409,"endTime":1903.289,"body":"Go back and listen to, I"},{"startTime":1899.409,"endTime":1903.289,"body":"believe it's Arguing Idol 179,"},{"startTime":1903.289,"endTime":1908.476,"body":"It was 179 was winning product"},{"startTime":1903.289,"endTime":1908.476,"body":"strategies and the MVPs that led"},{"startTime":1908.476,"endTime":1911.306,"body":"to those strategies with Nisha 179."},{"startTime":1911.636,"endTime":1915.666,"body":"So If you want to find out why companies"},{"startTime":1911.636,"endTime":1915.666,"body":"are so bad at this, listen to that"},{"startTime":1915.666,"endTime":1921.296,"body":"one, and then listen to, I believe,"},{"startTime":1915.666,"endTime":1921.296,"body":"185, the podcast that will go up right"},{"startTime":1921.296,"endTime":1925.786,"body":"before this one, about what companies"},{"startTime":1921.296,"endTime":1925.786,"body":"do instead of strategies to find out"},{"startTime":1925.846,"endTime":1927.766,"body":"why people are so bad at this one."},{"startTime":1928.096,"endTime":1930.831,"body":"So we have two podcasts to"},{"startTime":1928.096,"endTime":1930.831,"body":"deal with this one problem."},{"startTime":1931.071,"endTime":1934.431,"body":"Item, you have a budget problem, not a"},{"startTime":1931.071,"endTime":1934.431,"body":"strategy problem because, what will happen"},{"startTime":1934.431,"endTime":1938.671,"body":"is a company will run out of the money"},{"startTime":1934.431,"endTime":1938.671,"body":"they got from investors or whatever."},{"startTime":1938.671,"endTime":1941.911,"body":"And then they'll go back to the investors"},{"startTime":1938.671,"endTime":1941.911,"body":"and say, Oh no, we can be successful if"},{"startTime":1941.911,"endTime":1946.761,"body":"we just got a little more money, said no"},{"startTime":1941.911,"endTime":1946.761,"body":"company ever again and again and again."},{"startTime":1946.781,"endTime":1947.471,"body":"yeah, absolutely."},{"startTime":1947.481,"endTime":1951.161,"body":"But again, I go back to my point"},{"startTime":1947.481,"endTime":1951.161,"body":"though on this specific bullet"},{"startTime":1951.311,"endTime":1954.181,"body":"strategy that is not focused strategy."},{"startTime":1954.181,"endTime":1955.811,"body":"That's not even defined or that."},{"startTime":1955.961,"endTime":1958.511,"body":"How does that manifest itself, right?"},{"startTime":1958.641,"endTime":1959.781,"body":"You don't have these things."},{"startTime":1959.951,"endTime":1962.101,"body":"Ultimately, it reflects"},{"startTime":1959.951,"endTime":1962.101,"body":"itself in the budget."},{"startTime":1962.111,"endTime":1963.791,"body":"You're losing money, to your last point."},{"startTime":1964.131,"endTime":1966.221,"body":"If you're losing money,"},{"startTime":1964.131,"endTime":1966.221,"body":"that's a budget issue."},{"startTime":1966.231,"endTime":1967.041,"body":"you're in the red."},{"startTime":1967.241,"endTime":1970.501,"body":"it comes out in the numbers,"},{"startTime":1967.241,"endTime":1970.501,"body":"ultimately or pretty quickly."},{"startTime":1970.531,"endTime":1971.471,"body":"You don't have a strategy."},{"startTime":1971.571,"endTime":1974.511,"body":"That's not something people can"},{"startTime":1971.571,"endTime":1974.511,"body":"see, You can wax lyrical about what"},{"startTime":1974.511,"endTime":1979.051,"body":"you're doing, but the numbers in this"},{"startTime":1974.511,"endTime":1979.051,"body":"case do speak for themselves, right?"},{"startTime":1979.091,"endTime":1982.851,"body":"Because they will reflect your"},{"startTime":1979.091,"endTime":1982.851,"body":"lack of strategy or your lack of"},{"startTime":1982.851,"endTime":1986.851,"body":"definition Well, a lot of companies"},{"startTime":1982.851,"endTime":1986.851,"body":"their way of dealing with this one"},{"startTime":1986.871,"endTime":1988.991,"body":"is they call it a North star metric."},{"startTime":1989.021,"endTime":1991.321,"body":"I usually don't use that"},{"startTime":1989.021,"endTime":1991.321,"body":"term in normal conversation."},{"startTime":1991.341,"endTime":1992.471,"body":"Cause it's like MVP."},{"startTime":1992.471,"endTime":1993.141,"body":"It's one of these terms."},{"startTime":1993.141,"endTime":1995.931,"body":"it's so saturated in the market that"},{"startTime":1993.141,"endTime":1995.931,"body":"it means everything to everyone."},{"startTime":1996.081,"endTime":2000.891,"body":"North Star Metric, like for YouTube,"},{"startTime":1996.081,"endTime":2000.891,"body":"would be like number of hours of"},{"startTime":2000.901,"endTime":2002.811,"body":"videos watched that's their metric."},{"startTime":2003.091,"endTime":2005.821,"body":"same thing for Netflix, so"},{"startTime":2003.091,"endTime":2005.821,"body":"like number of hours watched."},{"startTime":2006.061,"endTime":2009.881,"body":"For Twitter, it would be like"},{"startTime":2006.061,"endTime":2009.881,"body":"number of posts created by users."},{"startTime":2009.881,"endTime":2012.351,"body":"for our podcast, it's"},{"startTime":2009.881,"endTime":2012.351,"body":"number of watch hours."},{"startTime":2012.651,"endTime":2015.871,"body":"People that have consumed"},{"startTime":2012.651,"endTime":2015.871,"body":"our content and watched it,"},{"startTime":2015.881,"endTime":2016.271,"body":"Sure."},{"startTime":2016.381,"endTime":2018.011,"body":"You know, it could be continuous."},{"startTime":2018.161,"endTime":2022.641,"body":"Continuous watch segments, like the number"},{"startTime":2018.161,"endTime":2022.641,"body":"of minutes that you continually, because"},{"startTime":2022.641,"endTime":2027.081,"body":"sometimes people will take our content"},{"startTime":2022.641,"endTime":2027.081,"body":"and continuously watch a nine or 10 minute"},{"startTime":2027.081,"endTime":2030.491,"body":"segment in the middle of a podcast and"},{"startTime":2027.081,"endTime":2030.491,"body":"I'll go see the stats and I'll say, Oh,"},{"startTime":2030.491,"endTime":2034.621,"body":"I wonder what section they're going to"},{"startTime":2030.491,"endTime":2034.621,"body":"look at to it's, that's important to them."},{"startTime":2034.771,"endTime":2037.851,"body":"So it's, it's a, not a budget problem."},{"startTime":2038.001,"endTime":2038.851,"body":"It's a strategy problem."},{"startTime":2038.881,"endTime":2040.511,"body":"Yeah, it is a strategy problem."},{"startTime":2040.851,"endTime":2045.011,"body":"And like what metrics you use in"},{"startTime":2040.851,"endTime":2045.011,"body":"house can make this way worse."},{"startTime":2045.041,"endTime":2045.991,"body":"They can make it a lot worse."},{"startTime":2046.031,"endTime":2047.901,"body":"I agree with that"},{"startTime":2046.031,"endTime":2047.901,"body":"wholeheartedly, all right."},{"startTime":2047.901,"endTime":2051.531,"body":"So number 10 financial culture"},{"startTime":2047.901,"endTime":2051.531,"body":"is just about cutting costs"},{"startTime":2051.591,"endTime":2053.601,"body":"and ROI financial culture."},{"startTime":2053.851,"endTime":2054.671,"body":"I don't understand what that means."},{"startTime":2054.901,"endTime":2056.741,"body":"it's just about cutting costs and ROI."},{"startTime":2056.741,"endTime":2059.566,"body":"you could peel this whole thing"},{"startTime":2056.741,"endTime":2059.566,"body":"back to the role of the CFO is"},{"startTime":2059.566,"endTime":2060.916,"body":"just about cutting costs in ROI."},{"startTime":2060.986,"endTime":2062.006,"body":"I could see that as an argument."},{"startTime":2062.156,"endTime":2065.566,"body":"He's saying that's a lie, which is"},{"startTime":2062.156,"endTime":2065.566,"body":"interesting because this is what I"},{"startTime":2065.566,"endTime":2067.506,"body":"usually see from the finance people."},{"startTime":2067.566,"endTime":2070.486,"body":"Sure, they just want to cut"},{"startTime":2067.566,"endTime":2070.486,"body":"costs and, and, and reduce them."},{"startTime":2070.806,"endTime":2075.901,"body":"And they just want to cut costs and they"},{"startTime":2070.806,"endTime":2075.901,"body":"only want to give money when a ROI is met."},{"startTime":2076.051,"endTime":2079.631,"body":"Specific ROI is guaranteed, which"},{"startTime":2076.051,"endTime":2079.631,"body":"means that all the agile stuff is"},{"startTime":2079.631,"endTime":2082.711,"body":"off the table because it's very"},{"startTime":2079.631,"endTime":2082.711,"body":"difficult to give an ROI to like,"},{"startTime":2082.781,"endTime":2084.121,"body":"I'm going to send people a training."},{"startTime":2084.271,"endTime":2085.421,"body":"What's the ROI on that?"},{"startTime":2085.421,"endTime":2088.731,"body":"I mean, I can't tell you what"},{"startTime":2085.421,"endTime":2088.731,"body":"ROI of training is going to be."},{"startTime":2088.731,"endTime":2089.561,"body":"How do you quantify that?"},{"startTime":2089.571,"endTime":2091.081,"body":"We're investing in people's futures."},{"startTime":2091.081,"endTime":2092.166,"body":"Well, that doesn't sound like that."},{"startTime":2092.436,"endTime":2094.636,"body":"That's going to be any ROI the"},{"startTime":2092.436,"endTime":2094.636,"body":"company, so I'm not going to give"},{"startTime":2094.636,"endTime":2095.626,"body":"you any money for training Om!"},{"startTime":2095.826,"endTime":2097.316,"body":"Boom, very real conversation right there."},{"startTime":2097.396,"endTime":2098.206,"body":"Very real."},{"startTime":2098.206,"endTime":2101.906,"body":"Unfortunately, I've seen this in real life"},{"startTime":2098.206,"endTime":2101.906,"body":"where they say, well, training, they train"},{"startTime":2101.906,"endTime":2104.016,"body":"their own time not on the clock, right?"},{"startTime":2104.166,"endTime":2106.556,"body":"So there's no motivation for"},{"startTime":2104.166,"endTime":2106.556,"body":"people to do that, first of all."},{"startTime":2106.806,"endTime":2109.056,"body":"So yeah, I mean, in the end, you're"},{"startTime":2106.806,"endTime":2109.056,"body":"going to lose some good people."},{"startTime":2109.106,"endTime":2111.906,"body":"That's, that's really the net net"},{"startTime":2109.106,"endTime":2111.906,"body":"out of this, but definitely agree."},{"startTime":2112.176,"endTime":2116.356,"body":"Most financial folks will have"},{"startTime":2112.176,"endTime":2116.356,"body":"this outlook of reducing cost."},{"startTime":2116.496,"endTime":2118.726,"body":"So the counterpoint to this"},{"startTime":2116.496,"endTime":2118.726,"body":"is hard to take as well."},{"startTime":2118.736,"endTime":2119.616,"body":"Reducing cost."},{"startTime":2119.626,"endTime":2123.996,"body":"Well, okay, you can reduce cost, but"},{"startTime":2119.626,"endTime":2123.996,"body":"at what cost are you reducing cost?"},{"startTime":2124.166,"endTime":2127.896,"body":"Or what's the, what's the"},{"startTime":2124.166,"endTime":2127.896,"body":"opportunity cost of reducing cost?"},{"startTime":2128.046,"endTime":2129.336,"body":"Training is a great example."},{"startTime":2129.366,"endTime":2131.306,"body":"You're not investing"},{"startTime":2129.366,"endTime":2131.306,"body":"in your people really."},{"startTime":2131.546,"endTime":2131.916,"body":"Right."},{"startTime":2132.136,"endTime":2135.396,"body":"Especially if you want to invest in"},{"startTime":2132.136,"endTime":2135.396,"body":"your people and that's going to pay off,"},{"startTime":2135.436,"endTime":2137.466,"body":"but it's hard to quantify the payoff."},{"startTime":2137.616,"endTime":2140.956,"body":"let us know in the content below,"},{"startTime":2137.616,"endTime":2140.956,"body":"because we would love to hear from you."},{"startTime":2140.956,"endTime":2143.026,"body":"How do you quantify"},{"startTime":2140.956,"endTime":2143.026,"body":"such investments, right?"},{"startTime":2143.066,"endTime":2146.156,"body":"ROI is not the only measure,"},{"startTime":2143.066,"endTime":2146.156,"body":"by the way, it is one measure."},{"startTime":2146.461,"endTime":2150.691,"body":"There are other financial ratios that,"},{"startTime":2146.461,"endTime":2150.691,"body":"and measures that people look at."},{"startTime":2150.741,"endTime":2150.971,"body":"Y."},{"startTime":2150.991,"endTime":2154.261,"body":"But I gotta think for a second"},{"startTime":2150.991,"endTime":2154.261,"body":"I started this category talking"},{"startTime":2154.261,"endTime":2155.746,"body":"about every other category."},{"startTime":2155.896,"endTime":2160.856,"body":"Thing that mattered to me that wasn't"},{"startTime":2155.896,"endTime":2160.856,"body":"ROI like watch time or number of clicks"},{"startTime":2160.856,"endTime":2164.766,"body":"or a number of times that you know News"},{"startTime":2160.856,"endTime":2164.766,"body":"media article was shared or something like"},{"startTime":2164.916,"endTime":2169.006,"body":"that on social media Yeah No That is ROI"},{"startTime":2164.916,"endTime":2169.006,"body":"None of that is our way and none of that"},{"startTime":2169.006,"endTime":2171.366,"body":"would be exposed to the finance people"},{"startTime":2169.006,"endTime":2171.366,"body":"either because they don't have those"},{"startTime":2171.376,"endTime":2174.476,"body":"numbers Unless they know to ask where"},{"startTime":2171.376,"endTime":2174.476,"body":"they happen to be in the meeting where"},{"startTime":2174.476,"endTime":2177.306,"body":"we talk about that So are they are they?"},{"startTime":2177.596,"endTime":2182.876,"body":"True North North star metric, or sorry,"},{"startTime":2177.596,"endTime":2182.876,"body":"I forget, I forgot what it was called."},{"startTime":2183.116,"endTime":2184.576,"body":"Or is it ROI?"},{"startTime":2184.706,"endTime":2188.746,"body":"Like, because like, we can talk about"},{"startTime":2184.706,"endTime":2188.746,"body":"it with all the product teams or Our"},{"startTime":2188.746,"endTime":2192.426,"body":"North star metric is the amount of"},{"startTime":2188.746,"endTime":2192.426,"body":"time people watch the, the amount"},{"startTime":2192.426,"endTime":2194.446,"body":"of time people are watching videos."},{"startTime":2194.446,"endTime":2196.676,"body":"Cause we run YouTube for example."},{"startTime":2196.826,"endTime":2198.166,"body":"And then at the board meetings."},{"startTime":2198.476,"endTime":2201.176,"body":"We only talk about ROI when"},{"startTime":2198.476,"endTime":2201.176,"body":"we talk about new investments."},{"startTime":2201.326,"endTime":2204.226,"body":"So like, wait a minute wait,"},{"startTime":2201.326,"endTime":2204.226,"body":"wait, I thought our North"},{"startTime":2204.226,"endTime":2205.586,"body":"star metric was this thing."},{"startTime":2205.686,"endTime":2206.346,"body":"Well, yeah, you're right."},{"startTime":2206.346,"endTime":2210.586,"body":"But when in front of the board, then the C"},{"startTime":2206.346,"endTime":2210.586,"body":"suite sings a different tune or whatever,"},{"startTime":2210.636,"endTime":2211.476,"body":"That can't be."},{"startTime":2211.486,"endTime":2214.886,"body":"That, that can't happen , if that's"},{"startTime":2211.486,"endTime":2214.886,"body":"your corporate culture, you have a"},{"startTime":2214.886,"endTime":2217.776,"body":"big mismatch, and now you're, there's"},{"startTime":2214.886,"endTime":2217.776,"body":"gonna be a lot of fighting behind"},{"startTime":2217.776,"endTime":2220.606,"body":"the scenes, and there's gonna be"},{"startTime":2217.776,"endTime":2220.606,"body":"problems like this, Financial culture"},{"startTime":2220.606,"endTime":2222.436,"body":"is all about cutting costs and ROI."},{"startTime":2222.616,"endTime":2225.356,"body":"I, again, only because"},{"startTime":2222.616,"endTime":2225.356,"body":"I'm a product manager."},{"startTime":2225.506,"endTime":2229.296,"body":"I don't think I've said"},{"startTime":2225.506,"endTime":2229.296,"body":"ROI in eight years."},{"startTime":2229.596,"endTime":2230.986,"body":"I don't think I've used the term ROI."},{"startTime":2231.136,"endTime":2236.676,"body":"Who cares about ROI because our"},{"startTime":2231.136,"endTime":2236.676,"body":"North star metric generates revenue."},{"startTime":2236.826,"endTime":2240.126,"body":"If we've picked the North star metric,"},{"startTime":2236.826,"endTime":2240.126,"body":"this does not generate revenue."},{"startTime":2240.276,"endTime":2241.096,"body":"That's a different problem."},{"startTime":2241.226,"endTime":2244.076,"body":"Now we're back to our strategy"},{"startTime":2241.226,"endTime":2244.076,"body":"as a problem why, why are"},{"startTime":2244.076,"endTime":2247.166,"body":"we pursuing a strategy that"},{"startTime":2244.076,"endTime":2247.166,"body":"doesn't have money at the end?"},{"startTime":2247.276,"endTime":2247.506,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":2247.556,"endTime":2250.456,"body":"Now we're back to a problem,  ROI,"},{"startTime":2247.556,"endTime":2250.456,"body":"get out of my office with this."},{"startTime":2250.746,"endTime":2252.986,"body":"Listen, I feel like this concept of."},{"startTime":2253.301,"endTime":2257.441,"body":"Return on investment is a little"},{"startTime":2253.301,"endTime":2257.441,"body":"bit date also your ROI formula."},{"startTime":2257.521,"endTime":2258.151,"body":"It's all made up."},{"startTime":2258.151,"endTime":2261.131,"body":"Anyway, It is made up It's dated as well."},{"startTime":2261.131,"endTime":2266.121,"body":"I feel like it's surpassed now with"},{"startTime":2261.131,"endTime":2266.121,"body":"other measures even back in the day"},{"startTime":2266.401,"endTime":2271.361,"body":"You know when I learned this stuff in"},{"startTime":2266.401,"endTime":2271.361,"body":"business school, it was one aspect."},{"startTime":2271.431,"endTime":2274.451,"body":"But then there are other aspects"},{"startTime":2271.431,"endTime":2274.451,"body":"return on time invested to turn"},{"startTime":2274.451,"endTime":2275.871,"body":"on capital invested, right?"},{"startTime":2276.151,"endTime":2277.671,"body":"Capital employed ROCI metric."},{"startTime":2277.711,"endTime":2281.031,"body":"There's so many other"},{"startTime":2277.711,"endTime":2281.031,"body":"ways of looking at this."},{"startTime":2281.221,"endTime":2284.951,"body":"Yet all we hear is ROI"},{"startTime":2281.221,"endTime":2284.951,"body":"because it's ingrained."},{"startTime":2285.101,"endTime":2286.701,"body":"So I think some somewhat historic."},{"startTime":2286.701,"endTime":2287.801,"body":"But yeah, Definitely."},{"startTime":2287.821,"endTime":2291.391,"body":"This is a Well,  this took"},{"startTime":2287.821,"endTime":2291.391,"body":"a good amount of time."},{"startTime":2291.391,"endTime":2293.791,"body":"Let's get to one that I don't"},{"startTime":2291.391,"endTime":2293.791,"body":"think is going to take a large"},{"startTime":2293.791,"endTime":2295.091,"body":"amount of time, which is number 11."},{"startTime":2295.241,"endTime":2297.951,"body":"Everyone already understands"},{"startTime":2295.241,"endTime":2297.951,"body":"your financial reports."},{"startTime":2298.101,"endTime":2298.711,"body":"Oh boy."},{"startTime":2298.861,"endTime":2301.891,"body":"I'll be the first one to say nobody"},{"startTime":2298.861,"endTime":2301.891,"body":"understands your financial reports."},{"startTime":2301.921,"endTime":2304.081,"body":"They're deliberately obfuscatory, right?"},{"startTime":2304.141,"endTime":2307.911,"body":"So if you look at financial reports"},{"startTime":2304.141,"endTime":2307.911,"body":"for public companies, you'll see"},{"startTime":2307.921,"endTime":2310.561,"body":"statements in there that make"},{"startTime":2307.921,"endTime":2310.561,"body":"you feel really warm and fuzzy."},{"startTime":2310.711,"endTime":2313.531,"body":"And then you come out of that and"},{"startTime":2310.711,"endTime":2313.531,"body":"you go, yeah, this is a winner."},{"startTime":2313.531,"endTime":2314.211,"body":"This is great."},{"startTime":2314.361,"endTime":2318.951,"body":"But what you don't know necessarily,"},{"startTime":2314.361,"endTime":2318.951,"body":"or you may not know, is that it's been"},{"startTime":2318.951,"endTime":2325.411,"body":"very carefully crafted to give you that"},{"startTime":2318.951,"endTime":2325.411,"body":"feeling without having raw, hard data"},{"startTime":2325.421,"endTime":2329.801,"body":"that these decisions are based upon"},{"startTime":2325.421,"endTime":2329.801,"body":"in all under the guise of two things."},{"startTime":2329.811,"endTime":2332.451,"body":"One is, well, these are"},{"startTime":2329.811,"endTime":2332.451,"body":"forward looking statements."},{"startTime":2332.601,"endTime":2335.181,"body":"So it's, We're basically"},{"startTime":2332.601,"endTime":2335.181,"body":"forecasting the future."},{"startTime":2335.461,"endTime":2339.891,"body":"And then the other is past performance"},{"startTime":2335.461,"endTime":2339.891,"body":"is no guarantee of future results Right,"},{"startTime":2340.041,"endTime":2343.991,"body":"but yet if you look through it carefully"},{"startTime":2340.041,"endTime":2343.991,"body":"everything that you see in there is based"},{"startTime":2343.991,"endTime":2349.611,"body":"on past performance So beware Beware the"},{"startTime":2343.991,"endTime":2349.611,"body":"fallacy of straight line extrapolation."},{"startTime":2349.631,"endTime":2353.441,"body":"First of all you'll see that a lot in"},{"startTime":2349.631,"endTime":2353.441,"body":"financial reports that say Last year"},{"startTime":2353.441,"endTime":2356.281,"body":"we did this year before we did this"},{"startTime":2353.441,"endTime":2356.281,"body":"therefore this year we're going to do"},{"startTime":2356.321,"endTime":2360.341,"body":"x and next year we're going to do you"},{"startTime":2356.321,"endTime":2360.341,"body":"know, X to the power Y extrapolations"},{"startTime":2360.491,"endTime":2364.011,"body":"are very fallacious when you come"},{"startTime":2360.491,"endTime":2364.011,"body":"think about this like that, right?"},{"startTime":2364.011,"endTime":2365.071,"body":"So be careful with that."},{"startTime":2365.221,"endTime":2366.171,"body":"So yeah, absolutely."},{"startTime":2366.171,"endTime":2368.031,"body":"Everybody understands"},{"startTime":2366.171,"endTime":2368.031,"body":"your financial reports."},{"startTime":2368.061,"endTime":2368.821,"body":"No they don't."},{"startTime":2368.971,"endTime":2370.611,"body":"But they feel good about"},{"startTime":2368.971,"endTime":2370.611,"body":"it when they read them."},{"startTime":2370.761,"endTime":2372.401,"body":"I think we all agree that"},{"startTime":2370.761,"endTime":2372.401,"body":"they don't, they don't."},{"startTime":2372.691,"endTime":2375.691,"body":"Number 12, you don't need to"},{"startTime":2372.691,"endTime":2375.691,"body":"communicate with other departments"},{"startTime":2375.751,"endTime":2377.151,"body":"before you dig into this one."},{"startTime":2377.301,"endTime":2380.111,"body":"First of all, I'll take"},{"startTime":2377.301,"endTime":2380.111,"body":"the lie side of this one."},{"startTime":2380.121,"endTime":2380.381,"body":"Okay."},{"startTime":2380.541,"endTime":2381.661,"body":"I'll take the last side of this one."},{"startTime":2381.811,"endTime":2384.611,"body":"Listen, as a CFO why am I going"},{"startTime":2381.811,"endTime":2384.611,"body":"to talk to a bunch of people that"},{"startTime":2384.611,"endTime":2385.741,"body":"don't speak my language anyway?"},{"startTime":2385.741,"endTime":2389.881,"body":"Like the technical people are all,"},{"startTime":2385.741,"endTime":2389.881,"body":"pedantic about talking about databases"},{"startTime":2389.881,"endTime":2392.491,"body":"and scaling and all I don't want"},{"startTime":2389.881,"endTime":2392.491,"body":"to talk to agile coaches and stuff."},{"startTime":2392.491,"endTime":2393.701,"body":"Cause they keep talking about this."},{"startTime":2393.976,"endTime":2397.816,"body":"Portfolio planning and scaling and"},{"startTime":2393.976,"endTime":2397.816,"body":"like this scrum method and that"},{"startTime":2397.816,"endTime":2400.016,"body":"scrummy method or whatever I don't"},{"startTime":2397.816,"endTime":2400.016,"body":"want to talk about any of that."},{"startTime":2400.066,"endTime":2401.126,"body":"I'm not interested in any of that."},{"startTime":2401.126,"endTime":2401.896,"body":"And I don't want to talk about it."},{"startTime":2401.896,"endTime":2406.626,"body":"And also every time some technology"},{"startTime":2401.896,"endTime":2406.626,"body":"leader, product Person or"},{"startTime":2406.626,"endTime":2409.956,"body":"whatever that can't distinguish"},{"startTime":2406.626,"endTime":2409.956,"body":"between product and technology."},{"startTime":2410.086,"endTime":2412.916,"body":"Anyway, first of all, every time"},{"startTime":2410.086,"endTime":2412.916,"body":"they talk to me, their bets and"},{"startTime":2412.916,"endTime":2415.446,"body":"their language and their processes"},{"startTime":2412.916,"endTime":2415.446,"body":"and the outcome of their work."},{"startTime":2415.496,"endTime":2418.436,"body":"They do not quantify it with"},{"startTime":2415.496,"endTime":2418.436,"body":"regard to financial impact."},{"startTime":2418.706,"endTime":2421.216,"body":"So basically they're talking,"},{"startTime":2418.706,"endTime":2421.216,"body":"they might as well be talking in a"},{"startTime":2421.216,"endTime":2423.566,"body":"completely different language to me"},{"startTime":2421.216,"endTime":2423.566,"body":"because I don't care Unless you're"},{"startTime":2423.566,"endTime":2427.826,"body":"going to massage what you're saying"},{"startTime":2423.566,"endTime":2427.826,"body":"into financial impact into my world"},{"startTime":2427.976,"endTime":2429.146,"body":"I'm not going to pay attention to it."},{"startTime":2429.336,"endTime":2431.426,"body":"I'm too busy I'm a C level executive."},{"startTime":2431.486,"endTime":2432.456,"body":"I'm super important."},{"startTime":2432.686,"endTime":2433.936,"body":"That's what I'm saying right here, Om."},{"startTime":2434.066,"endTime":2436.886,"body":"The company didn't hire me because I"},{"startTime":2434.066,"endTime":2436.886,"body":"have empathy and I can listen to people."},{"startTime":2436.916,"endTime":2438.166,"body":"And he can't put a number on it."},{"startTime":2438.436,"endTime":2438.966,"body":"Exactly."},{"startTime":2438.966,"endTime":2440.316,"body":"You can't put a number on empathy."},{"startTime":2440.356,"endTime":2440.716,"body":"That's right."},{"startTime":2440.716,"endTime":2442.136,"body":"I understand where you're coming from."},{"startTime":2442.196,"endTime":2445.426,"body":"If you're talking to agile coaches and,"},{"startTime":2442.196,"endTime":2445.426,"body":"analysts and people like that, that's"},{"startTime":2445.576,"endTime":2450.276,"body":"Cannot express what they're trying"},{"startTime":2445.576,"endTime":2450.276,"body":"to say in a language you understand."},{"startTime":2450.356,"endTime":2451.686,"body":"You absolutely shouldn't"},{"startTime":2450.356,"endTime":2451.686,"body":"be talking to them."},{"startTime":2451.836,"endTime":2454.746,"body":"They're doing their profession"},{"startTime":2451.836,"endTime":2454.746,"body":"a disservice, right?"},{"startTime":2454.896,"endTime":2459.156,"body":"So if they're talking about story"},{"startTime":2454.896,"endTime":2459.156,"body":"points or velocity, some stuff like"},{"startTime":2459.156,"endTime":2461.556,"body":"that, that you don't understand,"},{"startTime":2459.156,"endTime":2461.556,"body":"you're right to not talk to them."},{"startTime":2461.576,"endTime":2463.306,"body":"Because what does that mean to you anyway?"},{"startTime":2463.456,"endTime":2465.026,"body":"But I'm taking the other side now."},{"startTime":2465.086,"endTime":2470.346,"body":"Not talking to your people just because"},{"startTime":2465.086,"endTime":2470.346,"body":"they don't speak your language will"},{"startTime":2470.356,"endTime":2474.726,"body":"mean there is a gulf created between"},{"startTime":2470.356,"endTime":2474.726,"body":"what the company is striving toward."},{"startTime":2474.926,"endTime":2477.126,"body":"And what they're doing to get you there."},{"startTime":2477.386,"endTime":2478.276,"body":"Cause you're not talking to them."},{"startTime":2478.336,"endTime":2479.796,"body":"They don't, they don't get the messaging."},{"startTime":2479.806,"endTime":2482.376,"body":"If they're doing well, you can"},{"startTime":2479.806,"endTime":2482.376,"body":"tell them that if they're not doing"},{"startTime":2482.376,"endTime":2485.096,"body":"well, if you're not communicating"},{"startTime":2482.376,"endTime":2485.096,"body":"period though, how do they know?"},{"startTime":2485.246,"endTime":2485.476,"body":"Right."},{"startTime":2485.586,"endTime":2488.686,"body":"so for me, this is a non starter"},{"startTime":2485.586,"endTime":2488.686,"body":"because you have to communicate,"},{"startTime":2488.696,"endTime":2491.426,"body":"even if they're speaking a different"},{"startTime":2488.696,"endTime":2491.426,"body":"language, you can bridge that."},{"startTime":2491.576,"endTime":2494.946,"body":"And that's where you need to rely"},{"startTime":2491.576,"endTime":2494.946,"body":"on people like product managers and"},{"startTime":2494.946,"endTime":2499.246,"body":"coaches that can turn what they're"},{"startTime":2494.946,"endTime":2499.246,"body":"doing into language that you understand."},{"startTime":2499.476,"endTime":2502.746,"body":"If you can't do that, that's a"},{"startTime":2499.476,"endTime":2502.746,"body":"problem for enterprise coaches"},{"startTime":2502.746,"endTime":2503.536,"body":"to come in and help you."},{"startTime":2503.686,"endTime":2504.786,"body":"I understand what you're saying."},{"startTime":2504.946,"endTime":2508.686,"body":"However, let me, let me turn that"},{"startTime":2504.946,"endTime":2508.686,"body":"camera around for a second and focus on"},{"startTime":2508.686,"endTime":2510.866,"body":"the CFO , you're a C level executive."},{"startTime":2511.016,"endTime":2514.516,"body":"So, theoretically, you're a"},{"startTime":2511.016,"endTime":2514.516,"body":"leader in the organization."},{"startTime":2514.666,"endTime":2515.976,"body":"That's the way you like to see yourself."},{"startTime":2515.976,"endTime":2520.196,"body":"C level executives like to see"},{"startTime":2515.976,"endTime":2520.196,"body":"themselves as bold leaders,"},{"startTime":2520.346,"endTime":2521.806,"body":"forging the path to the future."},{"startTime":2521.856,"endTime":2524.816,"body":"If you're a leader, There are some"},{"startTime":2521.856,"endTime":2524.816,"body":"responsibilities that you have,"},{"startTime":2524.866,"endTime":2527.196,"body":"some accountabilities that you"},{"startTime":2524.866,"endTime":2527.196,"body":"have you cannot get out of, okay?"},{"startTime":2527.346,"endTime":2530.126,"body":"Part of your accountability is if"},{"startTime":2527.346,"endTime":2530.126,"body":"you have a bunch of people that"},{"startTime":2530.166,"endTime":2532.486,"body":"every time they talk to you, you"},{"startTime":2530.166,"endTime":2532.486,"body":"don't understand what they're saying."},{"startTime":2532.636,"endTime":2536.506,"body":"you need to offer coaching to"},{"startTime":2532.636,"endTime":2536.506,"body":"them to help them come up to the"},{"startTime":2536.506,"endTime":2539.316,"body":"level that you're at or to help"},{"startTime":2536.506,"endTime":2539.316,"body":"them better communicate with you."},{"startTime":2539.456,"endTime":2539.736,"body":"Right."},{"startTime":2539.756,"endTime":2543.276,"body":"Maybe you only speak CBO executive,"},{"startTime":2539.756,"endTime":2543.276,"body":"which, by the way, is only spoken"},{"startTime":2543.276,"endTime":2544.516,"body":"in yachts and golf courses."},{"startTime":2544.516,"endTime":2545.226,"body":"I don't understand it."},{"startTime":2545.416,"endTime":2545.826,"body":"Don't worry."},{"startTime":2546.106,"endTime":2546.976,"body":"Let's move on quickly."},{"startTime":2547.226,"endTime":2549.686,"body":"Part of your job, again,"},{"startTime":2547.226,"endTime":2549.686,"body":"if you read the Marty Kagan"},{"startTime":2549.696,"endTime":2551.376,"body":"Transform book, You're welcome."},{"startTime":2551.426,"endTime":2553.526,"body":"It's all about Agile"},{"startTime":2551.426,"endTime":2553.526,"body":"transformation without using"},{"startTime":2553.526,"endTime":2554.736,"body":"the word Agile transformation."},{"startTime":2554.886,"endTime":2555.656,"body":"If you read that book, you're welcome."},{"startTime":2555.806,"endTime":2558.516,"body":"He does tell you in that book,"},{"startTime":2555.806,"endTime":2558.516,"body":"the roles of managers, quote,"},{"startTime":2558.526,"endTime":2560.896,"body":"managers, meaning executive type."},{"startTime":2560.896,"endTime":2564.536,"body":"In the modern organization, your"},{"startTime":2560.896,"endTime":2564.536,"body":"role is all about people leadership"},{"startTime":2564.866,"endTime":2569.116,"body":"and people leadership in that book"},{"startTime":2564.866,"endTime":2569.116,"body":"is defined as coaching the people"},{"startTime":2569.266,"endTime":2573.506,"body":"in the hierarchy under you on better"},{"startTime":2569.266,"endTime":2573.506,"body":"ways of working, how to resolve"},{"startTime":2573.506,"endTime":2576.366,"body":"problems, how to better communicate"},{"startTime":2573.506,"endTime":2576.366,"body":"coaching on them, whatever they need."},{"startTime":2576.516,"endTime":2580.136,"body":"If you cannot offer that coaching to"},{"startTime":2576.516,"endTime":2580.136,"body":"the people below you, it's time to"},{"startTime":2580.136,"endTime":2583.566,"body":"move on You need to get somebody in"},{"startTime":2580.136,"endTime":2583.566,"body":"that can help you Do that coaching"},{"startTime":2583.566,"endTime":2586.896,"body":"if you can't do it yourself So I"},{"startTime":2583.566,"endTime":2586.896,"body":"understand that some people got in that"},{"startTime":2586.896,"endTime":2590.846,"body":"position because they were just lucky"},{"startTime":2586.896,"endTime":2590.846,"body":"we don't talk about that in business."},{"startTime":2590.856,"endTime":2593.546,"body":"We're not allowed to say some people"},{"startTime":2590.856,"endTime":2593.546,"body":"just got lucky Which is totally"},{"startTime":2593.546,"endTime":2596.026,"body":"true, but some people just got"},{"startTime":2593.546,"endTime":2596.026,"body":"lucky and they are in that position."},{"startTime":2596.026,"endTime":2597.146,"body":"They don't have the skill to do it."},{"startTime":2597.366,"endTime":2601.576,"body":"So then they need to bring someone"},{"startTime":2597.366,"endTime":2601.576,"body":"to help them understand how to be a"},{"startTime":2601.596,"endTime":2605.706,"body":"better coach and to help them do the"},{"startTime":2601.596,"endTime":2605.706,"body":"coaching until they come up and they,"},{"startTime":2605.816,"endTime":2608.736,"body":"they skill themselves up to the level"},{"startTime":2605.816,"endTime":2608.736,"body":"where they can do it on their own."},{"startTime":2608.976,"endTime":2613.486,"body":"We don't talk about that often,  the idea"},{"startTime":2608.976,"endTime":2613.486,"body":"that, You can just do your job in a vacuum"},{"startTime":2613.646,"endTime":2617.676,"body":"and not talk to people that you don't"},{"startTime":2613.646,"endTime":2617.676,"body":"understand and not have empathy for people"},{"startTime":2617.676,"endTime":2619.446,"body":"that are basically doing work like that."},{"startTime":2619.616,"endTime":2621.156,"body":"All of this is not true."},{"startTime":2621.306,"endTime":2622.616,"body":"So I'm, I'm with him on this one."},{"startTime":2622.616,"endTime":2624.356,"body":"You don't need to communicate"},{"startTime":2622.616,"endTime":2624.356,"body":"with other departments."},{"startTime":2624.506,"endTime":2627.566,"body":"That is a lie, a flat out lie, bad advice."},{"startTime":2627.586,"endTime":2629.326,"body":"It's hashtag bad life advice."},{"startTime":2629.376,"endTime":2633.566,"body":"But it's not only as bad, it is"},{"startTime":2629.376,"endTime":2633.566,"body":"going to hold you back in your"},{"startTime":2633.566,"endTime":2635.306,"body":"career, whatever career you have."},{"startTime":2635.366,"endTime":2638.926,"body":"If you're a product manager,"},{"startTime":2635.366,"endTime":2638.926,"body":"agile coach, whatever developer,"},{"startTime":2639.236,"endTime":2641.626,"body":"and you think, Oh, I don't have"},{"startTime":2639.236,"endTime":2641.626,"body":"anything in common with finance."},{"startTime":2641.626,"endTime":2642.916,"body":"I don't need to talk to those people."},{"startTime":2643.066,"endTime":2647.716,"body":"You right there that you've"},{"startTime":2643.066,"endTime":2647.716,"body":"just expressed a fixed mindset."},{"startTime":2647.746,"endTime":2648.876,"body":"You're holding yourself back."},{"startTime":2649.026,"endTime":2651.216,"body":"You need to push through that"},{"startTime":2649.026,"endTime":2651.216,"body":"and say, what, what can they"},{"startTime":2651.216,"endTime":2652.536,"body":"tell me that I don't understand?"},{"startTime":2652.686,"endTime":2655.916,"body":"And I'm telling you, it's a lot, it's"},{"startTime":2652.686,"endTime":2655.916,"body":"a lot, and leadership, not you're not"},{"startTime":2655.926,"endTime":2660.456,"body":"being open to or willing to offer that"},{"startTime":2655.926,"endTime":2660.456,"body":"coaching, whether it's internally or"},{"startTime":2660.456,"endTime":2662.356,"body":"they get an expert in, that's a failure."},{"startTime":2662.426,"endTime":2664.106,"body":"That's a leadership failure right there."},{"startTime":2664.256,"endTime":2665.506,"body":"So let me wrap this one up."},{"startTime":2665.506,"endTime":2668.196,"body":"number 13 long term"},{"startTime":2665.506,"endTime":2668.196,"body":"strategy isn't your concern."},{"startTime":2668.416,"endTime":2669.676,"body":"Just hit the numbers now."},{"startTime":2669.826,"endTime":2671.186,"body":"This is that, short term thinking."},{"startTime":2671.396,"endTime":2674.486,"body":"So maybe there are cases again,"},{"startTime":2671.396,"endTime":2674.486,"body":"I'm going to take the other side."},{"startTime":2674.821,"endTime":2679.311,"body":"Just because maybe there are cases"},{"startTime":2674.821,"endTime":2679.311,"body":"where this is not because all you"},{"startTime":2679.311,"endTime":2683.201,"body":"care about is making the numbers now,"},{"startTime":2679.311,"endTime":2683.201,"body":"long term strategy could be two years"},{"startTime":2683.201,"endTime":2687.041,"body":"out, five years out, used to be 10, 15"},{"startTime":2683.201,"endTime":2687.041,"body":"years ago, but now it's much shorter."},{"startTime":2687.191,"endTime":2688.841,"body":"Still, that's not your purview."},{"startTime":2688.871,"endTime":2694.371,"body":"You just care about making that"},{"startTime":2688.871,"endTime":2694.371,"body":"number so that you can hit that IPO."},{"startTime":2694.521,"endTime":2696.761,"body":"And in that case, yeah, this is not a lie."},{"startTime":2696.811,"endTime":2697.641,"body":"just make the numbers."},{"startTime":2697.641,"endTime":2701.111,"body":"Actually, back in the heyday of"},{"startTime":2697.641,"endTime":2701.111,"body":"the internet, I worked for an"},{"startTime":2701.131,"endTime":2704.451,"body":"incubator company that was the"},{"startTime":2701.131,"endTime":2704.451,"body":"golden child of the internet."},{"startTime":2704.601,"endTime":2708.011,"body":"And basically our mandate from"},{"startTime":2704.601,"endTime":2708.011,"body":"the CFO was, To make those"},{"startTime":2708.041,"endTime":2712.491,"body":"quarterly numbers and we had pretty"},{"startTime":2708.041,"endTime":2712.491,"body":"lucrative bonuses hinged on that."},{"startTime":2712.641,"endTime":2714.411,"body":"But was there any long"},{"startTime":2712.641,"endTime":2714.411,"body":"term thinking there?"},{"startTime":2714.531,"endTime":2718.681,"body":"No, he wanted to get us to a number"},{"startTime":2714.531,"endTime":2718.681,"body":"that would get us to an IPO and"},{"startTime":2718.681,"endTime":2719.901,"body":"then everybody would get rich."},{"startTime":2719.951,"endTime":2723.021,"body":"Unfortunately, the bubble fell out"},{"startTime":2719.951,"endTime":2723.021,"body":"and I'm still here doing podcasts."},{"startTime":2723.951,"endTime":2725.301,"body":"So there you go."},{"startTime":2725.301,"endTime":2727.191,"body":"And there are no yachts to be seen."},{"startTime":2727.201,"endTime":2728.741,"body":"No yachts, not even paper ones."},{"startTime":2728.741,"endTime":2729.421,"body":"No long term strategy."},{"startTime":2729.441,"endTime":2732.561,"body":"So, This is probably the number"},{"startTime":2729.441,"endTime":2732.561,"body":"one thing that gets a bad rap."},{"startTime":2732.611,"endTime":2737.551,"body":"the CFOs focus on quarterly results"},{"startTime":2732.611,"endTime":2737.551,"body":"as opposed to the product managers"},{"startTime":2737.551,"endTime":2741.751,"body":"and the Agile coaches of the world"},{"startTime":2737.551,"endTime":2741.751,"body":"who are focused on building something"},{"startTime":2742.031,"endTime":2744.381,"body":"more permanent for the future."},{"startTime":2744.531,"endTime":2749.461,"body":"I wonder if the pressure to balance"},{"startTime":2744.531,"endTime":2749.461,"body":"the quarterly results versus the"},{"startTime":2749.461,"endTime":2754.631,"body":"longterm, like I'd like to talk to a"},{"startTime":2749.461,"endTime":2754.631,"body":"CFO the pressure of this cause like my"},{"startTime":2754.631,"endTime":2759.991,"body":"product manager, like very very focused"},{"startTime":2754.631,"endTime":2759.991,"body":"thinking like my tunnel vision product"},{"startTime":2759.991,"endTime":2764.811,"body":"manager thinking about this is if you're"},{"startTime":2759.991,"endTime":2764.811,"body":"constantly investing in the longterm,"},{"startTime":2764.961,"endTime":2766.551,"body":"The short term is gonna fall into place."},{"startTime":2766.551,"endTime":2770.291,"body":"That's the way I feel about it, but I"},{"startTime":2766.551,"endTime":2770.291,"body":"would imagine that at a higher level,"},{"startTime":2770.291,"endTime":2774.171,"body":"there are more factors influencing"},{"startTime":2770.291,"endTime":2774.171,"body":"than that simple view of the world."},{"startTime":2774.351,"endTime":2778.581,"body":"Yeah, I mean, it sounds like we're"},{"startTime":2774.351,"endTime":2778.581,"body":"always dumping on leadership for having"},{"startTime":2778.581,"endTime":2781.911,"body":"a short term vision, but They have people"},{"startTime":2778.581,"endTime":2781.911,"body":"that they're accountable to, right?"},{"startTime":2781.921,"endTime":2782.631,"body":"Shareholders."},{"startTime":2782.891,"endTime":2787.121,"body":"What is interesting about this topic"},{"startTime":2782.891,"endTime":2787.121,"body":"to me, though, is that the difference"},{"startTime":2787.131,"endTime":2792.441,"body":"between, Western organizations"},{"startTime":2787.131,"endTime":2792.441,"body":"versus organizations in, say, Japan,"},{"startTime":2792.491,"endTime":2795.361,"body":"they don't seem to be suffering"},{"startTime":2792.491,"endTime":2795.361,"body":"from this kind of thing as much."},{"startTime":2795.511,"endTime":2797.651,"body":"And somehow they managed to balance that."},{"startTime":2797.681,"endTime":2799.301,"body":"It would be fun to dig into this."},{"startTime":2799.341,"endTime":2802.771,"body":"I think on a different podcast,"},{"startTime":2799.341,"endTime":2802.771,"body":"figure out what is their secret sauce?"},{"startTime":2802.791,"endTime":2805.981,"body":"Why is it that they're not"},{"startTime":2802.791,"endTime":2805.981,"body":"encumbered by short term thinking?"},{"startTime":2806.281,"endTime":2808.121,"body":"And they're still successful on the whole."},{"startTime":2808.271,"endTime":2811.861,"body":"So how is it that they're managing"},{"startTime":2808.271,"endTime":2811.861,"body":"to navigate this in a way that"},{"startTime":2812.121,"endTime":2814.921,"body":"Western CEOs, CFOs are not able to?"},{"startTime":2815.071,"endTime":2816.061,"body":"that'd be an interesting one."},{"startTime":2816.141,"endTime":2819.331,"body":"We have one topic left and then"},{"startTime":2816.141,"endTime":2819.331,"body":"we're done with this podcast."},{"startTime":2819.491,"endTime":2823.501,"body":"It's not on his list, but it's one"},{"startTime":2819.491,"endTime":2823.501,"body":"that we didn't explore, which is that"},{"startTime":2823.531,"endTime":2827.401,"body":"CFOs view product managers, product"},{"startTime":2823.531,"endTime":2827.401,"body":"managers, agile coaches, people that"},{"startTime":2827.421,"endTime":2830.961,"body":"involve people that are involved in"},{"startTime":2827.421,"endTime":2830.961,"body":"organizational design, that kind of stuff."},{"startTime":2831.231,"endTime":2834.581,"body":"They view them as overhead or"},{"startTime":2831.231,"endTime":2834.581,"body":"operational expense, and they view"},{"startTime":2834.591,"endTime":2836.061,"body":"them as cost centers, basically."},{"startTime":2836.291,"endTime":2841.381,"body":"This also goes for finance folks who view"},{"startTime":2836.291,"endTime":2841.381,"body":"the software development teams as just"},{"startTime":2841.381,"endTime":2843.801,"body":"cost centers and not revenue generating."},{"startTime":2844.026,"endTime":2845.216,"body":"Like they view them as cost centers."},{"startTime":2845.226,"endTime":2849.486,"body":"This is very common is that the"},{"startTime":2845.226,"endTime":2849.486,"body":"software development team is not"},{"startTime":2849.516,"endTime":2853.526,"body":"like a product line is not ascribed"},{"startTime":2849.516,"endTime":2853.526,"body":"revenue to the product line."},{"startTime":2853.676,"endTime":2854.006,"body":"They're just."},{"startTime":2854.156,"endTime":2855.176,"body":"seen as a negative."},{"startTime":2855.366,"endTime":2859.176,"body":"So when it comes time for cost cutting,"},{"startTime":2855.366,"endTime":2859.176,"body":"they look to trim from those negatives"},{"startTime":2859.176,"endTime":2861.006,"body":"because they're not generating revenue."},{"startTime":2861.156,"endTime":2865.226,"body":"We know that's not true at all, but"},{"startTime":2861.156,"endTime":2865.226,"body":"this is pretty normal from a CFO."},{"startTime":2865.226,"endTime":2871.396,"body":"So the CFO remember we talked about"},{"startTime":2865.226,"endTime":2871.396,"body":"being skeptical of ROI before, and"},{"startTime":2871.396,"endTime":2874.696,"body":"they're already seen as cost centers I"},{"startTime":2871.396,"endTime":2874.696,"body":"think that This is like a traditional"},{"startTime":2874.726,"endTime":2879.416,"body":"accounting where they're not properly"},{"startTime":2874.726,"endTime":2879.416,"body":"ascribing the revenue that a product"},{"startTime":2879.416,"endTime":2883.076,"body":"brings in to the team that maintains"},{"startTime":2879.416,"endTime":2883.076,"body":"that product in the first place."},{"startTime":2883.226,"endTime":2884.986,"body":"So this sort of could be a lie."},{"startTime":2885.046,"endTime":2886.786,"body":"I think this is a lot more real."},{"startTime":2887.101,"endTime":2891.091,"body":"Though then a lot of these other points,"},{"startTime":2887.101,"endTime":2891.091,"body":"I think I'd agree with you on that."},{"startTime":2891.091,"endTime":2896.011,"body":"on the subject of CFOs thinking of"},{"startTime":2891.091,"endTime":2896.011,"body":"agile coaches as call centers, I"},{"startTime":2896.011,"endTime":2899.851,"body":"mean, if you think about it from a"},{"startTime":2896.011,"endTime":2899.851,"body":"simplistic point of view of, investing"},{"startTime":2899.951,"endTime":2900.791,"body":"In agile coaching."},{"startTime":2900.821,"endTime":2902.261,"body":"where's the return on that?"},{"startTime":2902.431,"endTime":2903.601,"body":"It's hard to quantify."},{"startTime":2903.801,"endTime":2906.136,"body":"part of it is the nature"},{"startTime":2903.801,"endTime":2906.136,"body":"of the beast, right?"},{"startTime":2906.136,"endTime":2907.366,"body":"you're making the teams better."},{"startTime":2907.516,"endTime":2911.636,"body":"How do you make that visible in terms"},{"startTime":2907.516,"endTime":2911.636,"body":"of ROI, whatever measure you're using?"},{"startTime":2911.786,"endTime":2916.526,"body":"And the other is, on the Agile coaches,"},{"startTime":2911.786,"endTime":2916.526,"body":"they're not able to show the value"},{"startTime":2916.526,"endTime":2920.336,"body":"they bring, so, of course, the CFOs"},{"startTime":2916.526,"endTime":2920.336,"body":"are going to think this is a cost."},{"startTime":2920.636,"endTime":2925.186,"body":"And when it's time to cut cost, that's"},{"startTime":2920.636,"endTime":2925.186,"body":"why you find entire cadres of Agile"},{"startTime":2925.196,"endTime":2928.546,"body":"coaches being laid off at a time, because"},{"startTime":2925.196,"endTime":2928.546,"body":"it directly impacts the bottom line."},{"startTime":2928.696,"endTime":2932.966,"body":"So it's easy to say we're cutting cost"},{"startTime":2928.696,"endTime":2932.966,"body":"and therefore, Upping our bottom line."},{"startTime":2933.116,"endTime":2935.616,"body":"So I think the fault"},{"startTime":2933.116,"endTime":2935.616,"body":"here is divided, right?"},{"startTime":2935.616,"endTime":2938.956,"body":"one is on the CFO side for not"},{"startTime":2935.616,"endTime":2938.956,"body":"understanding what it is that they're"},{"startTime":2938.956,"endTime":2942.796,"body":"paying for, but the other side of it is"},{"startTime":2938.956,"endTime":2942.796,"body":"true also, which is they cannot express"},{"startTime":2942.816,"endTime":2946.596,"body":"what the value is that they're bringing in"},{"startTime":2942.816,"endTime":2946.596,"body":"terms that the CFO is going to understand."},{"startTime":2946.906,"endTime":2951.616,"body":"Yeah, I would like the fault I"},{"startTime":2946.906,"endTime":2951.616,"body":"would ascribe on the CEO side is."},{"startTime":2951.766,"endTime":2956.246,"body":"looking at the product management and"},{"startTime":2951.766,"endTime":2956.246,"body":"business agility coaching, looking at"},{"startTime":2956.256,"endTime":2961.136,"body":"them as if they're just overhead and"},{"startTime":2956.256,"endTime":2961.136,"body":"they're not directly driving revenue."},{"startTime":2961.286,"endTime":2963.496,"body":"That's a problem we need to"},{"startTime":2961.286,"endTime":2963.496,"body":"really think about that one."},{"startTime":2963.516,"endTime":2963.846,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":2963.896,"endTime":2969.536,"body":"but on the other side is that we just need"},{"startTime":2963.896,"endTime":2969.536,"body":"better ways to show that, better methods"},{"startTime":2969.536,"endTime":2975.446,"body":"of leadership directly drive business"},{"startTime":2969.536,"endTime":2975.446,"body":"outcomes and thereby profit and, that if"},{"startTime":2975.446,"endTime":2978.556,"body":"we could solve that on the podcast, if we"},{"startTime":2975.446,"endTime":2978.556,"body":"could come up with some kind of framework."},{"startTime":2978.706,"endTime":2981.056,"body":"It would be transformative"},{"startTime":2978.706,"endTime":2981.056,"body":"to a lot of companies."},{"startTime":2981.206,"endTime":2982.886,"body":"The trouble is nobody's doing that."},{"startTime":2983.236,"endTime":2984.756,"body":"Nobody has that silver bullet."},{"startTime":2984.856,"endTime":2985.366,"body":"Nobody does."},{"startTime":2985.366,"endTime":2986.436,"body":"This is the same kind of thing."},{"startTime":2986.436,"endTime":2989.976,"body":"It's like, well, how can you tell"},{"startTime":2986.436,"endTime":2989.976,"body":"if a good manager, a manager in the"},{"startTime":2989.976,"endTime":2993.586,"body":"organization, like a middle level"},{"startTime":2989.976,"endTime":2993.586,"body":"manager, how can you tell, or even like"},{"startTime":2993.586,"endTime":2997.746,"body":"an SVP or executive, how can you tell"},{"startTime":2993.586,"endTime":2997.746,"body":"that executive is good for the business?"},{"startTime":2997.896,"endTime":2998.936,"body":"Or bad for the business."},{"startTime":2999.136,"endTime":3001.746,"body":"Well, they're not directly"},{"startTime":2999.136,"endTime":3001.746,"body":"delivering value, right?"},{"startTime":3001.836,"endTime":3006.216,"body":"They're delivering value as"},{"startTime":3001.836,"endTime":3006.216,"body":"steps, you know Second and third"},{"startTime":3006.216,"endTime":3007.926,"body":"level actions enablers, right?"},{"startTime":3007.926,"endTime":3011.926,"body":"Yeah, they're enabling value So so"},{"startTime":3007.926,"endTime":3011.926,"body":"if you don't have a way to show the"},{"startTime":3011.926,"endTime":3014.586,"body":"enablers of value Have derived revenue."},{"startTime":3014.736,"endTime":3016.266,"body":"You don't have a way to do any of this."},{"startTime":3016.416,"endTime":3020.026,"body":"The nice thing about this category"},{"startTime":3016.416,"endTime":3020.026,"body":"is You can lift everything we're"},{"startTime":3020.026,"endTime":3023.876,"body":"talking about and, and say, well,"},{"startTime":3020.026,"endTime":3023.876,"body":"executives can't do that either."},{"startTime":3024.026,"endTime":3024.586,"body":"Very true."},{"startTime":3024.616,"endTime":3025.166,"body":"That's very true."},{"startTime":3025.166,"endTime":3028.416,"body":"So product managers, they basically"},{"startTime":3025.166,"endTime":3028.416,"body":"manage the product life cycle,"},{"startTime":3028.416,"endTime":3030.446,"body":"which is long in, in nature, right?"},{"startTime":3030.596,"endTime":3035.046,"body":"Azure coaches or business agility coaches"},{"startTime":3030.596,"endTime":3035.046,"body":"manage transitions, transformation,"},{"startTime":3035.046,"endTime":3035.646,"body":"whatever you want to call them."},{"startTime":3035.796,"endTime":3037.856,"body":"They're also long in terms of timeline."},{"startTime":3037.856,"endTime":3041.756,"body":"So it's hard to show quantifiable"},{"startTime":3037.856,"endTime":3041.756,"body":"improvements or benefits in"},{"startTime":3041.756,"endTime":3043.026,"body":"a shorter timeframe, right?"},{"startTime":3043.176,"endTime":3046.316,"body":"But everybody's a cell on"},{"startTime":3043.176,"endTime":3046.316,"body":"a spreadsheet somewhere."},{"startTime":3046.366,"endTime":3048.996,"body":"And CFOs are looking at"},{"startTime":3046.366,"endTime":3048.996,"body":"those sheets every day."},{"startTime":3049.326,"endTime":3053.156,"body":"So when they're looking at those,"},{"startTime":3049.326,"endTime":3053.156,"body":"you stick out as a cost, but"},{"startTime":3053.156,"endTime":3054.576,"body":"there's not a corresponding."},{"startTime":3054.811,"endTime":3057.781,"body":"Value in the opposite"},{"startTime":3054.811,"endTime":3057.781,"body":"column in the so it is hard."},{"startTime":3057.791,"endTime":3058.271,"body":"It is hard."},{"startTime":3058.301,"endTime":3061.311,"body":"I think collectively, yeah, this"},{"startTime":3058.301,"endTime":3061.311,"body":"would be a good one to delve into"},{"startTime":3061.311,"endTime":3062.951,"body":"because there's no silver bullets."},{"startTime":3063.201,"endTime":3067.121,"body":"The more people talk to the finance"},{"startTime":3063.201,"endTime":3067.121,"body":"folks, the more you'll find a way"},{"startTime":3067.121,"endTime":3069.161,"body":"to align to solve these problems."},{"startTime":3069.241,"endTime":3070.301,"body":"At least at your company."},{"startTime":3070.311,"endTime":3073.561,"body":"Maybe we can't give you a framework"},{"startTime":3070.311,"endTime":3073.561,"body":"or whatever to solve all the problems."},{"startTime":3073.711,"endTime":3077.131,"body":"That's very difficult to give you"},{"startTime":3073.711,"endTime":3077.131,"body":"something that's generic enough where"},{"startTime":3077.131,"endTime":3080.031,"body":"it can be applied everywhere, but"},{"startTime":3077.131,"endTime":3080.031,"body":"talking to people, having empathy,"},{"startTime":3080.031,"endTime":3084.611,"body":"Working out where like, these"},{"startTime":3080.031,"endTime":3084.611,"body":"these, these longer term issues."},{"startTime":3084.761,"endTime":3087.741,"body":"We need to be taking into"},{"startTime":3084.761,"endTime":3087.741,"body":"consideration along with our trying"},{"startTime":3087.741,"endTime":3088.801,"body":"to hit the quarterly numbers."},{"startTime":3089.151,"endTime":3089.391,"body":"Right."},{"startTime":3089.411,"endTime":3093.301,"body":"So that there's at least a balance as"},{"startTime":3089.411,"endTime":3093.301,"body":"opposed to just doing everything short"},{"startTime":3093.301,"endTime":3097.221,"body":"term like, again, short term like, yeah,"},{"startTime":3093.301,"endTime":3097.221,"body":"we'll just fire literally everyone in the"},{"startTime":3097.221,"endTime":3101.481,"body":"company, chain the doors, and then we'll"},{"startTime":3097.221,"endTime":3101.481,"body":"be really profitable for a couple days."},{"startTime":3101.631,"endTime":3103.101,"body":"And then a couple, we're all outta work."},{"startTime":3103.221,"endTime":3103.431,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":3103.431,"endTime":3104.301,"body":"And then we're all outta work."},{"startTime":3104.301,"endTime":3104.841,"body":"Yeah, that's fine."},{"startTime":3104.841,"endTime":3105.081,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":3105.081,"endTime":3108.281,"body":"It was an interesting podcast to,"},{"startTime":3105.081,"endTime":3108.281,"body":"to kind of just you know, mull"},{"startTime":3108.281,"endTime":3113.516,"body":"over some of these CFO, you know"},{"startTime":3108.281,"endTime":3113.516,"body":"pain points slash perspectives."},{"startTime":3113.696,"endTime":3113.906,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":3113.966,"endTime":3117.596,"body":"You know, maybe in the future we'll"},{"startTime":3113.966,"endTime":3117.596,"body":"look for a CFO to kind of bounce"},{"startTime":3117.596,"endTime":3120.896,"body":"some of these ideas off of some of"},{"startTime":3117.596,"endTime":3120.896,"body":"the, their day-to-day frustrations."},{"startTime":3120.896,"endTime":3121.621,"body":"That might be an interesting project."},{"startTime":3121.651,"endTime":3122.696,"body":"That would be a really good one."},{"startTime":3122.696,"endTime":3122.936,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":3122.936,"endTime":3123.386,"body":"I agree."},{"startTime":3123.416,"endTime":3123.596,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":3123.746,"endTime":3124.826,"body":"Well, thank you everybody."},{"startTime":3124.896,"endTime":3128.386,"body":"I hope you found this useful and"},{"startTime":3124.896,"endTime":3128.386,"body":"let us know your thoughts in the"},{"startTime":3128.396,"endTime":3131.986,"body":"comments below Don't forget to like"},{"startTime":3128.396,"endTime":3131.986,"body":"and subscribe and ring that bell."},{"startTime":3132.136,"endTime":3132.786,"body":"Is there a bell?"},{"startTime":3132.836,"endTime":3133.886,"body":"I don't even know if there's a bell"}]}