{"version":"1.0.0","segments":[{"startTime":1.48,"endTime":4.46,"body":"welcome to the Arguing Agile Podcast,"},{"startTime":1.48,"endTime":4.46,"body":"where Enterprise Business Agility"},{"startTime":4.5,"endTime":7.63,"body":"Coach Om Patel and Product Manager"},{"startTime":4.5,"endTime":7.63,"body":"Brian Orlando argue about product"},{"startTime":7.65,"endTime":10.899,"body":"management, leadership, and business"},{"startTime":7.65,"endTime":10.899,"body":"agility, so you don't have to."},{"startTime":11.901,"endTime":13.591,"body":"welcome back to the arguing agile podcast."},{"startTime":13.611,"endTime":16.351,"body":"We like to present both"},{"startTime":13.611,"endTime":16.351,"body":"sides of arguments sometimes."},{"startTime":16.351,"endTime":18.451,"body":"And we like to play"},{"startTime":16.351,"endTime":18.451,"body":"point and counterpoint."},{"startTime":18.461,"endTime":21.961,"body":"That's kind of the normal thing,"},{"startTime":18.461,"endTime":21.961,"body":"occasionally we'll get, , , correspondence"},{"startTime":21.961,"endTime":23.486,"body":"from viewers and listeners."},{"startTime":23.726,"endTime":26.336,"body":"Depending on how you get the"},{"startTime":23.726,"endTime":26.336,"body":"podcast, and, , today, , we have"},{"startTime":26.336,"endTime":28.096,"body":"correspondence from a friend of ours."},{"startTime":28.096,"endTime":29.826,"body":"We're not, again, we don't mention names."},{"startTime":29.826,"endTime":32.066,"body":"We're not trying to blow people"},{"startTime":29.826,"endTime":32.066,"body":"out of the water on the podcast."},{"startTime":32.416,"endTime":36.796,"body":"it is a follow up on, , the"},{"startTime":32.416,"endTime":36.796,"body":"podcast that we did."},{"startTime":37.086,"endTime":38.516,"body":", I believe it was episode."},{"startTime":38.766,"endTime":43.696,"body":"177 what is a platform team roles"},{"startTime":38.766,"endTime":43.696,"body":"responsibilities common mistakes?"},{"startTime":44.156,"endTime":49.816,"body":"We got follow up from a viewer"},{"startTime":44.156,"endTime":49.816,"body":"slash listener on that episode again"},{"startTime":50.146,"endTime":54.486,"body":"Agile podcast questions at gmail"},{"startTime":50.146,"endTime":54.486,"body":"arguing agile comm you can hit me up"},{"startTime":54.486,"endTime":58.641,"body":"directly on LinkedIn  plenty of ways"},{"startTime":54.486,"endTime":58.641,"body":"to get correspondence to us , but"},{"startTime":58.641,"endTime":61.351,"body":"this is one that came directly"},{"startTime":58.641,"endTime":61.351,"body":"from a viewer or a listener."},{"startTime":61.801,"endTime":66.048,"body":"And, , they ask Hey, I'm a product"},{"startTime":61.801,"endTime":66.048,"body":"manager and, , I'm starting with a bank."},{"startTime":66.483,"endTime":69.533,"body":"So the more traditional than"},{"startTime":66.483,"endTime":69.533,"body":"a lot of tech firms, right?"},{"startTime":69.763,"endTime":75.753,"body":"And I'm starting as a product manager for"},{"startTime":69.763,"endTime":75.753,"body":"a platform team at the bank, not having"},{"startTime":75.753,"endTime":80.863,"body":"worked as a product manager for a platform"},{"startTime":75.753,"endTime":80.863,"body":"team, and their background is not one"},{"startTime":80.873,"endTime":82.473,"body":"of having worked for a platform team."},{"startTime":82.473,"endTime":85.963,"body":"This particular listener heard our"},{"startTime":82.473,"endTime":85.963,"body":"podcast, , on, , , arguing agile"},{"startTime":85.963,"endTime":88.303,"body":"177 about all about platform teams."},{"startTime":88.553,"endTime":93.613,"body":", where we heavily, went back to the team"},{"startTime":88.553,"endTime":93.613,"body":"topologies book, which I highly recommend."},{"startTime":93.613,"endTime":96.783,"body":"And I will go back to it on this"},{"startTime":93.613,"endTime":96.783,"body":"podcast, most likely at some point."},{"startTime":96.943,"endTime":99.993,"body":"We wanted to break down, , the"},{"startTime":96.943,"endTime":99.993,"body":"questions that we got, and we wanted"},{"startTime":99.993,"endTime":102.027,"body":"to talk a bit more about this book."},{"startTime":102.328,"endTime":106.828,"body":"Particular subject about inheriting"},{"startTime":102.328,"endTime":106.828,"body":"a platform team for the first time."},{"startTime":107.198,"endTime":110.018,"body":"Not to be confused with our"},{"startTime":107.198,"endTime":110.018,"body":"other podcasts that we did."},{"startTime":110.018,"endTime":113.934,"body":"About, inheriting a product backlog,"},{"startTime":110.018,"endTime":113.934,"body":"where we actually gave you real"},{"startTime":113.934,"endTime":117.544,"body":"tactics to start, which I will tell"},{"startTime":113.934,"endTime":117.544,"body":"you right off the bat at the start"},{"startTime":117.554,"endTime":119.694,"body":"of this podcast,  pause this podcast."},{"startTime":119.944,"endTime":123.644,"body":"Go back and load 189 listen to"},{"startTime":119.944,"endTime":123.644,"body":"all the starting a back because"},{"startTime":123.654,"endTime":126.504,"body":"that'll help you a lot It doesn't"},{"startTime":123.654,"endTime":126.504,"body":"matter if it's a product teams."},{"startTime":126.554,"endTime":127.124,"body":"I'm sorry."},{"startTime":127.274,"endTime":133.294,"body":"It doesn't matter if it's a platform teams"},{"startTime":127.274,"endTime":133.294,"body":"Backlog or a feature team or whatever Like"},{"startTime":133.304,"endTime":135.494,"body":"those those tactics we got super tactical."},{"startTime":135.514,"endTime":141.684,"body":"I was telling somebody about 189 recently"},{"startTime":135.514,"endTime":141.684,"body":"I said when we did the agenda for 189"},{"startTime":142.004,"endTime":146.064,"body":"It was much higher level than we ended"},{"startTime":142.004,"endTime":146.064,"body":"up going and then when we actually"},{"startTime":146.064,"endTime":150.874,"body":"started 189 Something happened with the"},{"startTime":146.064,"endTime":150.874,"body":"agenda where we ended up going super"},{"startTime":150.874,"endTime":154.069,"body":"low into like Real tactical level."},{"startTime":154.289,"endTime":156.579,"body":"If you're backlogs like"},{"startTime":154.289,"endTime":156.579,"body":"this, do this tactic."},{"startTime":156.759,"endTime":158.349,"body":"If not, then do this other tactic."},{"startTime":158.349,"endTime":162.029,"body":"Like we got super into weeds, but"},{"startTime":158.349,"endTime":162.029,"body":"I found a lot of people would find"},{"startTime":162.029,"endTime":164.849,"body":"that helpful because they find"},{"startTime":162.029,"endTime":164.849,"body":"themselves in the weeds, right?"},{"startTime":164.889,"endTime":166.339,"body":"Not being able to see daylight."},{"startTime":166.589,"endTime":168.779,"body":"And also there's a lot of like, I see this"},{"startTime":168.829,"endTime":172.469,"body":"When I read posts on Reddit and when I"},{"startTime":168.829,"endTime":172.469,"body":"see, , posts on LinkedIn and stuff like"},{"startTime":172.469,"endTime":176.079,"body":"that, but once I get over that, I have"},{"startTime":172.469,"endTime":176.079,"body":"to say not a lot of people are giving you"},{"startTime":176.129,"endTime":181.249,"body":"real tactical try this in this way, and"},{"startTime":176.129,"endTime":181.249,"body":"if it doesn't work, do this other thing."},{"startTime":181.249,"endTime":182.729,"body":"Like, they're not giving"},{"startTime":181.249,"endTime":182.729,"body":"you that kind of advice."},{"startTime":182.729,"endTime":186.869,"body":"They're giving you this kind"},{"startTime":182.729,"endTime":186.869,"body":"of high level, you know 30, 000"},{"startTime":187.249,"endTime":188.659,"body":"foot overview kind of advice."},{"startTime":188.909,"endTime":191.409,"body":"And, I don't know, for someone"},{"startTime":188.909,"endTime":191.409,"body":"like this That's not super useful."},{"startTime":191.419,"endTime":198.089,"body":"so we did one 89 since this comment"},{"startTime":191.419,"endTime":198.089,"body":"came in, go listen to one 89."},{"startTime":198.099,"endTime":200.389,"body":"Hopefully that'll help you"},{"startTime":198.099,"endTime":200.389,"body":"in addition to this podcast."},{"startTime":200.449,"endTime":203.019,"body":"I want to start with the structure"},{"startTime":200.449,"endTime":203.019,"body":"of the org that they are in."},{"startTime":203.019,"endTime":204.559,"body":"So they are, they've been brought in."},{"startTime":204.809,"endTime":207.409,"body":"Or promoted as a product"},{"startTime":204.809,"endTime":207.409,"body":"manager, they've been promoted"},{"startTime":207.409,"endTime":210.289,"body":"or newly joined a bank, right?"},{"startTime":210.679,"endTime":214.549,"body":"You know as a product manager for a"},{"startTime":210.679,"endTime":214.549,"body":"platform team, that's the scenario, right?"},{"startTime":214.599,"endTime":218.339,"body":"the point of the platform team,"},{"startTime":214.599,"endTime":218.339,"body":"let's cut back to 189 Let's cut back"},{"startTime":218.339,"endTime":219.629,"body":"to team to Aussies for a second."},{"startTime":219.999,"endTime":225.609,"body":"The point of the platform team"},{"startTime":219.999,"endTime":225.609,"body":"is to enable basic services For"},{"startTime":225.659,"endTime":228.849,"body":"other development teams in the"},{"startTime":225.659,"endTime":228.849,"body":"organization to be able to do their"},{"startTime":228.849,"endTime":231.339,"body":"work easier and consistently, right?"},{"startTime":231.704,"endTime":233.844,"body":"So people aren't doing things differently."},{"startTime":234.274,"endTime":239.004,"body":"They're reaching into those backlogs"},{"startTime":234.274,"endTime":239.004,"body":"and taking cognitive load off of those"},{"startTime":239.254,"endTime":245.354,"body":"streamline teams to make it easier for"},{"startTime":239.254,"endTime":245.354,"body":"them to deliver their value streams."},{"startTime":245.694,"endTime":247.074,"body":"That's the point of the platform team."},{"startTime":247.074,"endTime":251.174,"body":"So they're like, you could be a platform"},{"startTime":247.074,"endTime":251.174,"body":"team that re imagines technology,"},{"startTime":251.444,"endTime":254.674,"body":"reinvigorates product lines builds"},{"startTime":251.444,"endTime":254.674,"body":"technical architecture in front of"},{"startTime":254.684,"endTime":258.514,"body":"other teams and gives them modules"},{"startTime":254.684,"endTime":258.514,"body":"that they can take advantage of."},{"startTime":258.514,"endTime":259.634,"body":"You could do that."},{"startTime":259.884,"endTime":263.574,"body":"Or you could just reach into product"},{"startTime":259.884,"endTime":263.574,"body":"backlogs of the streamline teams"},{"startTime":263.574,"endTime":267.994,"body":"and say, you know what, what you're"},{"startTime":263.574,"endTime":267.994,"body":"doing here seems to be similar"},{"startTime":267.994,"endTime":268.974,"body":"to what everyone else is doing."},{"startTime":268.974,"endTime":270.634,"body":"Why don't I lift that up?"},{"startTime":270.884,"endTime":273.144,"body":"Duplicate backlog."},{"startTime":273.154,"endTime":274.384,"body":"You don't have to maintain it anymore."},{"startTime":274.384,"endTime":275.574,"body":"You don't have to struggle team."},{"startTime":275.904,"endTime":278.874,"body":"We're going to take that on and"},{"startTime":275.904,"endTime":278.874,"body":"we're going to make it available"},{"startTime":279.084,"endTime":283.704,"body":"to all the other teams in this kind"},{"startTime":279.084,"endTime":283.704,"body":"of like a generalized kind of way"},{"startTime":283.844,"endTime":285.394,"body":"You know, I mean more standardized."},{"startTime":285.394,"endTime":285.954,"body":"Yeah I agree."},{"startTime":285.954,"endTime":291.484,"body":"Yeah so the structure of the org that"},{"startTime":285.954,"endTime":291.484,"body":"was outlined in the comment was hey my"},{"startTime":291.494,"endTime":294.134,"body":"current org They have these  subdivisions."},{"startTime":294.254,"endTime":294.874,"body":"It's a bank."},{"startTime":294.874,"endTime":296.914,"body":"So these shouldn't be"},{"startTime":294.874,"endTime":296.914,"body":"shocking to anyone, right?"},{"startTime":297.164,"endTime":304.444,"body":"compliance fraud operations customer"},{"startTime":297.164,"endTime":304.444,"body":"support Mobile statements communications"},{"startTime":304.734,"endTime":312.214,"body":"and identity so Some of those are very"},{"startTime":304.734,"endTime":312.214,"body":"hyper focused like features or subsets Of"},{"startTime":312.214,"endTime":314.862,"body":"the bank mobile makes total sense, right?"},{"startTime":315.342,"endTime":318.182,"body":"Operations fraud compliance"},{"startTime":315.342,"endTime":318.182,"body":"does make total sense."},{"startTime":318.212,"endTime":321.032,"body":"So you would think any bank"},{"startTime":318.212,"endTime":321.032,"body":"you go to you would see this"},{"startTime":321.282,"endTime":322.582,"body":"Mobile, I can kind of nitpick."},{"startTime":322.742,"endTime":326.602,"body":"Statements, communication,"},{"startTime":322.742,"endTime":326.602,"body":"identity, like those kind of"},{"startTime":326.612,"endTime":331.382,"body":"functions, I sort of interpret them"},{"startTime":326.612,"endTime":331.382,"body":"as silos rather than functions."},{"startTime":331.452,"endTime":337.052,"body":"Yeah, they're more almost like at the"},{"startTime":331.452,"endTime":337.052,"body":"departmental level this team or this,"},{"startTime":337.082,"endTime":340.242,"body":"these teams focus just on that aspect."},{"startTime":340.242,"endTime":340.322,"body":"Right."},{"startTime":340.572,"endTime":341.912,"body":"In isolation, probably."},{"startTime":342.152,"endTime":344.512,"body":"Some of these are in"},{"startTime":342.152,"endTime":344.512,"body":"silos for good reason."},{"startTime":344.522,"endTime":346.042,"body":"Like identity, for example."},{"startTime":346.492,"endTime":351.562,"body":"You want a single team taking"},{"startTime":346.492,"endTime":351.562,"body":"care of identity, right?"},{"startTime":351.572,"endTime":352.872,"body":"This is like a zero trust thing."},{"startTime":352.882,"endTime":354.172,"body":"Like you want one team."},{"startTime":354.422,"endTime":358.472,"body":"To be giving you tools to say"},{"startTime":354.422,"endTime":358.472,"body":"like, Hey, this thing you have"},{"startTime":358.472,"endTime":362.712,"body":"to trust like authentication, for"},{"startTime":358.472,"endTime":362.712,"body":"example, identity access management."},{"startTime":362.712,"endTime":363.652,"body":"Yeah, absolutely."},{"startTime":364.132,"endTime":367.312,"body":"Communication, that's an interesting"},{"startTime":364.132,"endTime":367.312,"body":"one that is interesting because"},{"startTime":367.402,"endTime":371.092,"body":"the communication and statements"},{"startTime":367.402,"endTime":371.092,"body":"are two separate functions."},{"startTime":371.232,"endTime":374.292,"body":"So statements get sent to customers, but."},{"startTime":374.542,"endTime":380.352,"body":"The statement team doesn't do that,"},{"startTime":374.542,"endTime":380.352,"body":"they somehow send stuff to the"},{"startTime":380.352,"endTime":382.422,"body":"communications team to communicate."},{"startTime":382.672,"endTime":384.782,"body":"Yeah, that, that doesn't make sense to me."},{"startTime":384.822,"endTime":386.472,"body":"I mean, it sort of makes sense."},{"startTime":386.522,"endTime":390.472,"body":"Well, from the perspective of,  having"},{"startTime":386.522,"endTime":390.472,"body":"consistency in the messaging, it"},{"startTime":390.472,"endTime":395.002,"body":"makes sense, but it still doesn't"},{"startTime":390.472,"endTime":395.002,"body":"make sense because all really that's"},{"startTime":395.012,"endTime":396.802,"body":"happening from the communications."},{"startTime":396.852,"endTime":401.062,"body":"Team is sending things out"},{"startTime":396.852,"endTime":401.062,"body":"they're a delivery vehicle."},{"startTime":401.312,"endTime":406.102,"body":"any team potentially could supply them"},{"startTime":401.312,"endTime":406.102,"body":"with what to deliver, but I feel like that"},{"startTime":406.102,"endTime":408.562,"body":"function could be distributed locally."},{"startTime":408.562,"endTime":412.812,"body":"if we're thinking of it as like a"},{"startTime":408.562,"endTime":412.812,"body":"product team, you could think of like"},{"startTime":412.812,"endTime":416.422,"body":"customer support, for example, is in"},{"startTime":412.812,"endTime":416.422,"body":"this list and operations in this list."},{"startTime":416.422,"endTime":419.812,"body":"Like think of customer support"},{"startTime":416.422,"endTime":419.812,"body":"and operations less like a product"},{"startTime":420.002,"endTime":421.112,"body":"team with the product manager."},{"startTime":421.447,"endTime":425.547,"body":"and more of like a siloed business"},{"startTime":421.447,"endTime":425.547,"body":"function of like all the customer support"},{"startTime":425.547,"endTime":430.077,"body":"activities have to go through the call"},{"startTime":425.547,"endTime":430.077,"body":"center who's managed by the director of"},{"startTime":430.327,"endTime":432.387,"body":"customer support operations or whatever."},{"startTime":432.397,"endTime":432.677,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":432.727,"endTime":434.587,"body":"Same thing with fraud,"},{"startTime":432.727,"endTime":434.587,"body":"same thing with compliance."},{"startTime":434.597,"endTime":434.977,"body":"You know what I mean?"},{"startTime":435.067,"endTime":435.317,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":435.567,"endTime":439.777,"body":"They're more siloed operations more"},{"startTime":435.567,"endTime":439.777,"body":"than they are cross functional."},{"startTime":440.157,"endTime":441.927,"body":"Definitely the case in this scenario."},{"startTime":441.977,"endTime":442.477,"body":"Yes."},{"startTime":442.477,"endTime":446.927,"body":"the interesting part here is operations,"},{"startTime":442.477,"endTime":446.927,"body":"fraud, compliance, customer support,"},{"startTime":447.207,"endTime":453.267,"body":"all of those, like as a starting product"},{"startTime":447.207,"endTime":453.267,"body":"manager who is doing platform operations."},{"startTime":453.517,"endTime":457.617,"body":"You may end up picking up a"},{"startTime":453.517,"endTime":457.617,"body":"function of any one of these things"},{"startTime":457.617,"endTime":458.727,"body":"and being like, you know what?"},{"startTime":459.087,"endTime":462.217,"body":"This is so important and so"},{"startTime":459.087,"endTime":462.217,"body":"integral to the platform."},{"startTime":462.467,"endTime":465.687,"body":"I need to add it to my roadmap"},{"startTime":462.467,"endTime":465.687,"body":"we're going to publish these web"},{"startTime":465.697,"endTime":469.607,"body":"hooks for customer communication and"},{"startTime":465.697,"endTime":469.607,"body":"we're going to make them available"},{"startTime":469.607,"endTime":471.027,"body":"from whatever function you're in."},{"startTime":471.237,"endTime":475.467,"body":"So if you're in the statement side"},{"startTime":471.237,"endTime":475.467,"body":"of the app, or if you're in the"},{"startTime":475.477,"endTime":480.387,"body":"fraud side of the app or like some"},{"startTime":475.477,"endTime":480.387,"body":"fraudulent activities detected cool."},{"startTime":480.547,"endTime":485.487,"body":"When fraudulent activities detected,"},{"startTime":480.547,"endTime":485.487,"body":"fire off the web hook that says"},{"startTime":485.947,"endTime":487.817,"body":"notify send an email to the customer."},{"startTime":487.927,"endTime":493.027,"body":"Well, the platform team is going to make"},{"startTime":487.927,"endTime":493.027,"body":"a list of available web hooks, and then"},{"startTime":493.037,"endTime":498.467,"body":"you, the fraud team just need to, Activate"},{"startTime":493.037,"endTime":498.467,"body":"the webhook that you make a call right?"},{"startTime":498.467,"endTime":503.027,"body":"Yeah, just make the call and maybe the"},{"startTime":498.467,"endTime":503.027,"body":"communication team Publishes a bunch"},{"startTime":503.027,"endTime":506.537,"body":"of templates and you just call like you"},{"startTime":503.027,"endTime":506.537,"body":"look at the library of templates that"},{"startTime":506.537,"endTime":512.157,"body":"you need and you select the template"},{"startTime":506.537,"endTime":512.157,"body":"for Notifying a customer that fraud is"},{"startTime":512.387,"endTime":515.937,"body":"happening on their account or whatever"},{"startTime":512.387,"endTime":515.937,"body":"and we have templates available."},{"startTime":515.937,"endTime":517.827,"body":"So maybe one team just, builds templates."},{"startTime":518.077,"endTime":521.927,"body":"Maybe another team publishes all the web"},{"startTime":518.077,"endTime":521.927,"body":"maybe, maybe my team, the platform team"},{"startTime":522.177,"endTime":525.757,"body":"publishes all the web hooks and puts them"},{"startTime":522.177,"endTime":525.757,"body":"in one place and has documentation so it's"},{"startTime":525.807,"endTime":528.307,"body":"easy for all the internal teams to use."},{"startTime":528.567,"endTime":531.547,"body":"The web books again, I don't know"},{"startTime":528.567,"endTime":531.547,"body":"what kind of technology they're using."},{"startTime":531.547,"endTime":532.937,"body":"I don't have to use web hooks or whatever."},{"startTime":532.957,"endTime":533.547,"body":"It doesn't matter."},{"startTime":533.547,"endTime":534.197,"body":"API is web."},{"startTime":534.197,"endTime":534.957,"body":"It doesn't matter yet."},{"startTime":534.957,"endTime":537.127,"body":"It really doesn't matter what"},{"startTime":534.957,"endTime":537.127,"body":"it is, but you get the point."},{"startTime":537.137,"endTime":539.127,"body":"I've just taken things off"},{"startTime":537.137,"endTime":539.127,"body":"of three different teams."},{"startTime":539.127,"endTime":541.247,"body":"Just in this example,"},{"startTime":539.127,"endTime":541.247,"body":"I got the fraud team."},{"startTime":541.537,"endTime":544.597,"body":"I got the communication team"},{"startTime":541.537,"endTime":544.597,"body":"and I got the statements team."},{"startTime":544.647,"endTime":546.377,"body":"I think that's the order"},{"startTime":544.647,"endTime":546.377,"body":"of customer support team."},{"startTime":546.417,"endTime":549.707,"body":"I don't remember three or four teams,"},{"startTime":546.417,"endTime":549.707,"body":"three or four teams, and we're not even"},{"startTime":549.707,"endTime":553.847,"body":"involving like operations at this point,"},{"startTime":549.707,"endTime":553.847,"body":"which clearly like a mobile or operations"},{"startTime":553.897,"endTime":557.877,"body":"like clearly you can evolve the mobile"},{"startTime":553.897,"endTime":557.877,"body":"team and be like, we'll just have like"},{"startTime":557.877,"endTime":561.297,"body":"a mobile notification that pop up on"},{"startTime":557.877,"endTime":561.297,"body":"your phone to say fraud was detected."},{"startTime":561.447,"endTime":564.267,"body":"We've looked across several"},{"startTime":561.447,"endTime":564.267,"body":"roadmaps and say, Hey, you guys"},{"startTime":564.267,"endTime":565.447,"body":"are all doing similar features."},{"startTime":565.667,"endTime":569.657,"body":"Why don't we make that available to"},{"startTime":565.667,"endTime":569.657,"body":"everyone in the form of this API?"},{"startTime":569.737,"endTime":571.157,"body":"So this is what I wanted to get."},{"startTime":571.207,"endTime":575.257,"body":"This is why I was super"},{"startTime":571.207,"endTime":575.257,"body":"excited to cut this podcast."},{"startTime":575.527,"endTime":579.027,"body":"To the front of the line is because"},{"startTime":575.527,"endTime":579.027,"body":"this is sort of how I got my start in"},{"startTime":579.027,"endTime":582.707,"body":"product management is doing this kind"},{"startTime":579.027,"endTime":582.707,"body":"of stuff is looking across all of the"},{"startTime":582.707,"endTime":587.227,"body":"feature roadmaps that all the product"},{"startTime":582.707,"endTime":587.227,"body":"managers have, or in my case, random"},{"startTime":587.227,"endTime":590.557,"body":"people had in the company because they"},{"startTime":587.227,"endTime":590.557,"body":"didn't, their product management was a"},{"startTime":590.557,"endTime":593.777,"body":"joke, but, , , looking across all those"},{"startTime":590.557,"endTime":593.777,"body":"roadmaps and saying, You know what?"},{"startTime":593.787,"endTime":597.087,"body":"These things are shared rather"},{"startTime":593.787,"endTime":597.087,"body":"than having different developers on"},{"startTime":597.087,"endTime":599.147,"body":"different teams, do duplicative work."},{"startTime":599.197,"endTime":599.397,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":599.447,"endTime":600.697,"body":"I don't say that word very often."},{"startTime":600.777,"endTime":601.097,"body":"Duplicate."},{"startTime":601.207,"endTime":601.477,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":601.477,"endTime":601.787,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":601.797,"endTime":602.327,"body":"It's good work."},{"startTime":602.407,"endTime":606.127,"body":", rather than do that, why don't I reduce"},{"startTime":602.407,"endTime":606.127,"body":"the cognitive load on these teams and"},{"startTime":606.297,"endTime":609.797,"body":"I'll just take it with my team and"},{"startTime":606.297,"endTime":609.797,"body":"we'll implement it in a way where every"},{"startTime":609.797,"endTime":611.647,"body":"team can just use it out of the box."},{"startTime":611.897,"endTime":612.127,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":612.127,"endTime":614.687,"body":"And in the process, what you're"},{"startTime":612.127,"endTime":614.687,"body":"doing is you're basically."},{"startTime":615.052,"endTime":616.062,"body":"Standardizing."},{"startTime":616.062,"endTime":619.102,"body":"I'm not talking about the content"},{"startTime":616.062,"endTime":619.102,"body":"so much as the technology and"},{"startTime":619.102,"endTime":622.842,"body":"the way things are delivered so"},{"startTime":619.102,"endTime":622.842,"body":"there's a greater chance of success."},{"startTime":622.982,"endTime":624.392,"body":"Every team is doing their own thing."},{"startTime":624.402,"endTime":625.412,"body":"Who knows, right?"},{"startTime":625.432,"endTime":628.742,"body":"Who knows all the different disparate"},{"startTime":625.432,"endTime":628.742,"body":"technologies that they're using."},{"startTime":628.802,"endTime":630.012,"body":"So, yeah, I agree with that."},{"startTime":630.262,"endTime":634.807,"body":", it looks like this list of eight"},{"startTime":630.262,"endTime":634.807,"body":"though is aligned around functions"},{"startTime":635.647,"endTime":639.007,"body":"that the bank does as opposed to the"},{"startTime":635.647,"endTime":639.007,"body":"products that's what it looks like."},{"startTime":639.137,"endTime":644.567,"body":", that's, very banking of them to"},{"startTime":639.137,"endTime":644.567,"body":"arrange themselves this way in"},{"startTime":644.567,"endTime":646.587,"body":"silos that's just the way banks are."},{"startTime":646.837,"endTime":650.597,"body":"You know, it makes sense"},{"startTime":646.837,"endTime":650.597,"body":"because banks came up that way."},{"startTime":650.597,"endTime":650.897,"body":"Right?"},{"startTime":650.897,"endTime":651.977,"body":"They evolved that way."},{"startTime":652.017,"endTime":655.787,"body":"it does make a lot of sense what I'll do"},{"startTime":652.017,"endTime":655.787,"body":"for people watching on YouTube is I'll"},{"startTime":655.787,"endTime":659.147,"body":"put the categories in the middle of the"},{"startTime":655.787,"endTime":659.147,"body":"screen so they can go back and visually"},{"startTime":659.147,"endTime":662.567,"body":"check categories For everyone that's"},{"startTime":659.147,"endTime":662.567,"body":"listening, it was compliance, fraud,"},{"startTime":662.657,"endTime":668.117,"body":"operations, customer support, mobile"},{"startTime":662.657,"endTime":668.117,"body":"statements, communications and identity."},{"startTime":668.152,"endTime":669.712,"body":"those are the different divisions."},{"startTime":670.117,"endTime":672.417,"body":"And again, like mobile, for example."},{"startTime":672.667,"endTime":675.467,"body":"There's a function of all"},{"startTime":672.667,"endTime":675.467,"body":"six of those within mobile."},{"startTime":675.527,"endTime":679.367,"body":"So your mobile team is cross"},{"startTime":675.527,"endTime":679.367,"body":"functional, meaning they're"},{"startTime":679.367,"endTime":680.247,"body":"cutting across departments."},{"startTime":680.257,"endTime":684.377,"body":"So your mobile team benefits kind of from"},{"startTime":680.257,"endTime":684.377,"body":"what the platform team is doing because"},{"startTime":684.477,"endTime":688.147,"body":"more stuff, the platform team takes on the"},{"startTime":684.477,"endTime":688.147,"body":"less stuff the mobile team's got to do."},{"startTime":688.467,"endTime":692.137,"body":"And that even assumes that your"},{"startTime":688.467,"endTime":692.137,"body":"mobile team is a team of front end and"},{"startTime":692.147,"endTime":696.397,"body":"back end engineers to do  the actual"},{"startTime":692.147,"endTime":696.397,"body":"application on the phone, mobile"},{"startTime":696.427,"endTime":700.747,"body":"side of it, but also to implement"},{"startTime":696.427,"endTime":700.747,"body":"backend API services or whatever."},{"startTime":700.807,"endTime":700.927,"body":"Right?"},{"startTime":701.107,"endTime":706.837,"body":"Yeah so the more that the platform team"},{"startTime":701.107,"endTime":706.837,"body":"does for the mobile team, the faster that"},{"startTime":706.837,"endTime":708.367,"body":"mobile products or whatever can work."},{"startTime":708.547,"endTime":708.757,"body":"Right?"},{"startTime":708.757,"endTime":708.847,"body":"Right."},{"startTime":708.897,"endTime":711.147,"body":", and you know, who knows, maybe"},{"startTime":708.897,"endTime":711.147,"body":"mobile products is actually like."},{"startTime":711.397,"endTime":714.687,"body":"A half a dozen like maybe, maybe"},{"startTime":711.397,"endTime":714.687,"body":"we're like, , maybe we're talking"},{"startTime":714.687,"endTime":716.867,"body":"about like customer savings accounts."},{"startTime":716.887,"endTime":718.587,"body":"Maybe we're also in"},{"startTime":716.887,"endTime":718.587,"body":"the insurance business."},{"startTime":718.587,"endTime":719.767,"body":"Maybe we're in the loans business."},{"startTime":719.767,"endTime":722.587,"body":"Maybe we're in the home loan, auto"},{"startTime":719.767,"endTime":722.587,"body":"loan, whatever kind of business."},{"startTime":722.587,"endTime":725.167,"body":"And like the mobile apps are"},{"startTime":722.587,"endTime":725.167,"body":"actually like a half a dozen"},{"startTime":725.387,"endTime":728.087,"body":"separate apps under one bank."},{"startTime":728.417,"endTime":733.137,"body":"So mobile, like mobile platform"},{"startTime":728.417,"endTime":733.137,"body":"actually means like a ton."},{"startTime":733.387,"endTime":738.657,"body":"Maybe you have like 30 mobile developers"},{"startTime":733.387,"endTime":738.657,"body":"in, in quote, mobile operations or"},{"startTime":738.657,"endTime":743.287,"body":"whatever I can easily see that, but"},{"startTime":738.657,"endTime":743.287,"body":"again, it will come back down to what"},{"startTime":743.287,"endTime":747.137,"body":"I said earlier, which is your platform"},{"startTime":743.287,"endTime":747.137,"body":"team, true platform team can kind"},{"startTime":747.137,"endTime":750.367,"body":"of cut across all these categories"},{"startTime":747.137,"endTime":750.367,"body":"to be like, , what is used the most?"},{"startTime":750.617,"endTime":755.377,"body":"And what can I grab to make it easier"},{"startTime":750.617,"endTime":755.377,"body":"that'll be the thread that goes through"},{"startTime":755.377,"endTime":759.127,"body":"this whole podcast , and in order to do"},{"startTime":755.377,"endTime":759.127,"body":"that, let's pretend for a second  that"},{"startTime":759.157,"endTime":763.627,"body":"these eight categories are, , silos,"},{"startTime":759.157,"endTime":763.627,"body":"like we're saying, they have their own"},{"startTime":763.637,"endTime":765.457,"body":"roadmaps, their own product managers."},{"startTime":765.837,"endTime":766.777,"body":"Directors, whatever."},{"startTime":767.027,"endTime":769.157,"body":"Let's pretend they get their"},{"startTime":767.027,"endTime":769.157,"body":"own roadmaps, their own budgets."},{"startTime":769.257,"endTime":770.307,"body":", let's bring it back to that."},{"startTime":770.307,"endTime":771.547,"body":"They got their own budgets."},{"startTime":771.657,"endTime":773.457,"body":"that's how they operate, right?"},{"startTime":773.507,"endTime":774.377,"body":"Their own teams."},{"startTime":774.627,"endTime":778.777,"body":", as the person outside of these eight"},{"startTime":774.627,"endTime":778.777,"body":"silos on a platform team with a mandate"},{"startTime":778.787,"endTime":782.357,"body":"from like whatever operations, or I"},{"startTime":778.787,"endTime":782.357,"body":"don't know who your mandate would be CEO."},{"startTime":782.397,"endTime":784.187,"body":"I don't know who your mandate"},{"startTime":782.397,"endTime":784.187,"body":"chief product, I don't know"},{"startTime":784.187,"endTime":785.307,"body":"who your mandate would be from."},{"startTime":785.557,"endTime":788.117,"body":"You're basically the product"},{"startTime":785.557,"endTime":788.117,"body":"manager here, or maybe the"},{"startTime":788.117,"endTime":789.427,"body":"product manager and the tech lead."},{"startTime":789.577,"endTime":790.757,"body":"I don't know how big the team would be."},{"startTime":791.037,"endTime":794.507,"body":", like your mandate here would be"},{"startTime":791.037,"endTime":794.507,"body":"like attend everybody's sprint"},{"startTime":794.507,"endTime":798.887,"body":"reviews or end of cycle reviews or"},{"startTime":794.507,"endTime":798.887,"body":"release events, whatever they have."},{"startTime":798.917,"endTime":802.447,"body":"Cause I assume they're not the most"},{"startTime":798.917,"endTime":802.447,"body":"agile departments in the world."},{"startTime":802.757,"endTime":807.077,"body":"I'm just assuming, , attend all"},{"startTime":802.757,"endTime":807.077,"body":"of their release ceremonies,"},{"startTime":807.127,"endTime":807.817,"body":"whatever that looks like."},{"startTime":808.067,"endTime":810.567,"body":"Learn as much as you can,"},{"startTime":808.067,"endTime":810.567,"body":"absorb their documentation, and"},{"startTime":810.567,"endTime":811.387,"body":"figure out what they're doing."},{"startTime":811.647,"endTime":816.527,"body":"Because your roadmap will be built"},{"startTime":811.647,"endTime":816.527,"body":"off of what can you take off of them."},{"startTime":816.557,"endTime":817.007,"body":"Right."},{"startTime":817.287,"endTime":820.937,"body":"To accelerate their own"},{"startTime":817.287,"endTime":820.937,"body":"individual roadmaps, but also"},{"startTime":821.187,"endTime":822.847,"body":"look at it, , systems view."},{"startTime":822.887,"endTime":824.117,"body":"Across the whole bank."},{"startTime":824.537,"endTime":824.837,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":824.967,"endTime":830.097,"body":"To say, what can we accelerate"},{"startTime":824.967,"endTime":830.097,"body":"at a organizational higher level?"},{"startTime":830.387,"endTime":833.687,"body":"You know, how can we take, , the"},{"startTime":830.387,"endTime":833.687,"body":"whole organization to a higher"},{"startTime":833.687,"endTime":836.497,"body":"place, you know So, , sorry i'm"},{"startTime":833.687,"endTime":836.497,"body":"struggling with terminology."},{"startTime":836.547,"endTime":840.407,"body":"Basically, you have to go one on one"},{"startTime":836.547,"endTime":840.407,"body":"to each product manager or each team or"},{"startTime":840.407,"endTime":844.097,"body":"each department, whatever it is, however,"},{"startTime":840.407,"endTime":844.097,"body":"the organization is structured, right?"},{"startTime":844.227,"endTime":846.017,"body":"And you have to do a lot of one on ones."},{"startTime":846.237,"endTime":850.547,"body":"So in the correspondence, this"},{"startTime":846.237,"endTime":850.547,"body":"individuals indicated they did."},{"startTime":851.017,"endTime":852.357,"body":"They've already started doing that."},{"startTime":852.757,"endTime":856.207,"body":"They started doing one on ones and they"},{"startTime":852.757,"endTime":856.207,"body":"started realizing that, The platform"},{"startTime":856.217,"endTime":860.577,"body":"team that they're coming onto is actually"},{"startTime":856.217,"endTime":860.577,"body":"kind of operating as a feature team."},{"startTime":861.077,"endTime":865.277,"body":"So I assume like some of these"},{"startTime":861.077,"endTime":865.277,"body":"groups are tasking them with features"},{"startTime":865.277,"endTime":866.767,"body":"that are like cross functional."},{"startTime":866.767,"endTime":868.467,"body":"Like we were talking about,"},{"startTime":866.767,"endTime":868.467,"body":"Hey, you should be looking"},{"startTime":868.467,"endTime":869.457,"body":"out and grabbing these things."},{"startTime":869.707,"endTime":873.487,"body":"Except sometimes, it's not like I,"},{"startTime":869.707,"endTime":873.487,"body":"the product manager, am looking out"},{"startTime":873.487,"endTime":874.917,"body":"and grabbing and make a business case."},{"startTime":874.947,"endTime":876.967,"body":"Why this easy to be top"},{"startTime":874.947,"endTime":876.967,"body":"priority being given."},{"startTime":876.967,"endTime":879.377,"body":"Some people are pushing,"},{"startTime":876.967,"endTime":879.377,"body":"Hey, you're a platform team."},{"startTime":879.377,"endTime":880.537,"body":"You've got some extra engineers."},{"startTime":880.707,"endTime":882.107,"body":"Why don't you take this thing on?"},{"startTime":882.117,"endTime":883.337,"body":"They're outsourcing it to you."},{"startTime":883.387,"endTime":883.947,"body":"Internally."},{"startTime":884.047,"endTime":885.157,"body":"Get me out of that trap."},{"startTime":885.187,"endTime":886.377,"body":"Oh my God."},{"startTime":886.387,"endTime":888.237,"body":"So help me, help me deflect some of that."},{"startTime":888.237,"endTime":891.197,"body":"Like how, how can I, as the enterprise"},{"startTime":888.237,"endTime":891.197,"body":"business agility coach in the room,"},{"startTime":891.197,"endTime":896.187,"body":"like how can I start deflecting some"},{"startTime":891.197,"endTime":896.187,"body":"of that to say like, Hey, I understand"},{"startTime":896.187,"endTime":897.957,"body":"it's the highest priority for you."},{"startTime":898.367,"endTime":898.617,"body":"Right."},{"startTime":898.647,"endTime":903.187,"body":"And it might be the highest priority for"},{"startTime":898.647,"endTime":903.187,"body":"the bank, have we validated that, right?"},{"startTime":903.487,"endTime":903.747,"body":"Exactly."},{"startTime":903.747,"endTime":904.157,"body":"That's what I'm asking."},{"startTime":904.407,"endTime":907.427,"body":"I just want to go back to a point"},{"startTime":904.407,"endTime":907.427,"body":"you made this platform team have"},{"startTime":907.577,"endTime":912.377,"body":"been having discussions one on"},{"startTime":907.577,"endTime":912.377,"body":"ones with those other eight teams."},{"startTime":912.627,"endTime":915.837,"body":"it might be time for those product"},{"startTime":912.627,"endTime":915.837,"body":"people to all get in the room"},{"startTime":915.917,"endTime":917.487,"body":"and say, what are our priorities?"},{"startTime":917.487,"endTime":919.037,"body":"What do we want to get done?"},{"startTime":919.387,"endTime":921.677,"body":"And the platform team"},{"startTime":919.387,"endTime":921.677,"body":"can sort those through."},{"startTime":921.947,"endTime":923.417,"body":"And say, here's one."},{"startTime":923.457,"endTime":928.567,"body":"It's the most valuable right now that"},{"startTime":923.457,"endTime":928.567,"body":"can service most of you or more than one."},{"startTime":928.817,"endTime":933.917,"body":"And come up with almost the prioritize"},{"startTime":928.817,"endTime":933.917,"body":"list of features that they can then"},{"startTime":933.947,"endTime":938.897,"body":"pick up that will reduce the, the"},{"startTime":933.947,"endTime":938.897,"body":"kind of the, all this noise that"},{"startTime":938.897,"endTime":940.517,"body":"they're currently experiencing, right."},{"startTime":940.767,"endTime":942.247,"body":"So I would start with that."},{"startTime":942.247,"endTime":945.807,"body":"The product people on these teams"},{"startTime":942.247,"endTime":945.807,"body":"are feeling stressed and burned out."},{"startTime":946.257,"endTime":949.867,"body":"And that's because of the"},{"startTime":946.257,"endTime":949.867,"body":"cognitive overload of working with"},{"startTime":950.117,"endTime":951.807,"body":"All these features everywhere."},{"startTime":952.157,"endTime":954.837,"body":"So , this person has got to"},{"startTime":952.157,"endTime":954.837,"body":"get their hands around this."},{"startTime":954.897,"endTime":957.427,"body":"it probably doesn't help the way"},{"startTime":954.897,"endTime":957.427,"body":"they have the organization structure."},{"startTime":957.427,"endTime":959.957,"body":"It doesn't  it's like, the compliance"},{"startTime":957.427,"endTime":959.957,"body":"folks are over here and the fraud"},{"startTime":959.957,"endTime":962.957,"body":"folks are over here and the AML"},{"startTime":959.957,"endTime":962.957,"body":"folks are over here and nobody"},{"startTime":962.957,"endTime":965.747,"body":"talks to each other and everybody's"},{"startTime":962.957,"endTime":965.747,"body":"fighting and everything's on fire."},{"startTime":966.067,"endTime":966.497,"body":"And this is fine"},{"startTime":966.707,"endTime":970.627,"body":"I've not worked at a bank in my career,"},{"startTime":966.707,"endTime":970.627,"body":"but I've known people who worked at"},{"startTime":970.657,"endTime":973.187,"body":"banks and , they were stressed out too."},{"startTime":973.617,"endTime":978.027,"body":"So I completely understand"},{"startTime":973.617,"endTime":978.027,"body":"why people are overloaded."},{"startTime":978.077,"endTime":981.087,"body":"Theoretically people are trying to"},{"startTime":978.077,"endTime":981.087,"body":"push stuff up to the platform team."},{"startTime":981.337,"endTime":985.457,"body":"Which might it might rightfully be so"},{"startTime":981.337,"endTime":985.457,"body":"it might be like hey, everyone needs to"},{"startTime":985.457,"endTime":988.807,"body":"take advantage of this feature Everyone"},{"startTime":985.457,"endTime":988.807,"body":"needs to be able to check an account"},{"startTime":988.817,"endTime":992.437,"body":"for fraud or check an account activity"},{"startTime":988.817,"endTime":992.437,"body":"for fraud or have some kind of ai Or"},{"startTime":992.437,"endTime":997.457,"body":"whatever that operates for that, you"},{"startTime":992.437,"endTime":997.457,"body":"know Maybe that's true  But the context"},{"startTime":997.457,"endTime":1000.357,"body":"switching like you're not going to get"},{"startTime":997.457,"endTime":1000.357,"body":"away from the context switching  the"},{"startTime":1000.357,"endTime":1002.497,"body":"only remedy to that is gonna have to be"},{"startTime":1002.747,"endTime":1006.227,"body":"They'll have to reorg, but they're"},{"startTime":1002.747,"endTime":1006.227,"body":"not going to do that quickly, right?"},{"startTime":1006.227,"endTime":1006.617,"body":"Yes."},{"startTime":1006.627,"endTime":1010.617,"body":"So this person coming in as"},{"startTime":1006.627,"endTime":1010.617,"body":"a newly minted person, right?"},{"startTime":1010.647,"endTime":1014.487,"body":"On this team, , on the platform"},{"startTime":1010.647,"endTime":1014.487,"body":"team, what can they do logistically?"},{"startTime":1014.547,"endTime":1016.767,"body":"I'll cut you right to the front of"},{"startTime":1014.547,"endTime":1016.767,"body":"the line and product management."},{"startTime":1017.067,"endTime":1019.817,"body":"The best thing that you can do"},{"startTime":1017.067,"endTime":1019.817,"body":"is you can make their big list"},{"startTime":1019.817,"endTime":1021.967,"body":"of priorities, , visible to them."},{"startTime":1021.977,"endTime":1022.497,"body":"Yes."},{"startTime":1022.747,"endTime":1026.347,"body":"So first thing, make it transparent"},{"startTime":1022.747,"endTime":1026.347,"body":"to them, make it cut across backlogs,"},{"startTime":1026.647,"endTime":1030.887,"body":"make it transparent, show them the"},{"startTime":1026.647,"endTime":1030.887,"body":"prioritization list, and then go to"},{"startTime":1030.887,"endTime":1033.567,"body":"your leadership and be brave enough"},{"startTime":1030.887,"endTime":1033.567,"body":"to be like, this is your list."},{"startTime":1033.817,"endTime":1035.287,"body":"These are the most important things."},{"startTime":1035.697,"endTime":1037.107,"body":"This is the impact they will make."},{"startTime":1037.227,"endTime":1040.507,"body":"there's some homework that has to be done"},{"startTime":1037.227,"endTime":1040.507,"body":"on your behalf before you present because"},{"startTime":1040.507,"endTime":1041.787,"body":"you're going to get torn to shreds."},{"startTime":1041.817,"endTime":1045.957,"body":"Of course, yeah but, if you go in"},{"startTime":1041.817,"endTime":1045.957,"body":"front of an executive who really is"},{"startTime":1045.957,"endTime":1048.737,"body":"on their game and you're like, this"},{"startTime":1045.957,"endTime":1048.737,"body":"is your list, the first thing they're"},{"startTime":1048.737,"endTime":1053.197,"body":"going to do, and I'm glad you're here,"},{"startTime":1048.737,"endTime":1053.197,"body":"to play devil's advocate for this."},{"startTime":1053.447,"endTime":1053.897,"body":"Okay."},{"startTime":1054.207,"endTime":1056.682,"body":"The first thing they're going to do"},{"startTime":1054.207,"endTime":1056.682,"body":"is they're going to be like, Brian,"},{"startTime":1056.812,"endTime":1058.652,"body":"why can't your team just work faster?"},{"startTime":1059.142,"endTime":1060.052,"body":"You can work longer."},{"startTime":1060.192,"endTime":1061.722,"body":"Calm down, calm down, calm down."},{"startTime":1061.992,"endTime":1063.812,"body":"Now I like, are you,"},{"startTime":1061.992,"endTime":1063.812,"body":"have you been drinking?"},{"startTime":1064.062,"endTime":1065.102,"body":"Do you have a problem?"},{"startTime":1065.552,"endTime":1066.782,"body":"Maybe I need to talk to you off a ledge."},{"startTime":1066.882,"endTime":1072.282,"body":"Like that's your, your work harder"},{"startTime":1066.882,"endTime":1072.282,"body":"and longer is like, there's only 24"},{"startTime":1072.282,"endTime":1074.862,"body":"hours in a day that can only go so far."},{"startTime":1075.142,"endTime":1076.572,"body":"So here's your list."},{"startTime":1076.672,"endTime":1079.932,"body":"If you really want to chew"},{"startTime":1076.672,"endTime":1079.932,"body":"through this list faster, you"},{"startTime":1079.932,"endTime":1082.482,"body":"need to divide to another team."},{"startTime":1082.732,"endTime":1085.219,"body":"And have two teams working"},{"startTime":1082.732,"endTime":1085.219,"body":"out of one backlog."},{"startTime":1085.269,"endTime":1088.999,"body":"For me as a product manager, this"},{"startTime":1085.269,"endTime":1088.999,"body":"has always been my path to working"},{"startTime":1088.999,"endTime":1094.239,"body":"more hours for myself because I will"},{"startTime":1088.999,"endTime":1094.239,"body":"cry in front of the business and"},{"startTime":1094.239,"endTime":1098.029,"body":"I will show them the, I was going"},{"startTime":1094.239,"endTime":1098.029,"body":"to say the fruits of their labor."},{"startTime":1098.049,"endTime":1098.359,"body":"What is it?"},{"startTime":1098.369,"endTime":1100.709,"body":"What is the consequences"},{"startTime":1098.369,"endTime":1100.709,"body":"of their inaction?"},{"startTime":1100.959,"endTime":1105.369,"body":"I will show them the consequences"},{"startTime":1100.959,"endTime":1105.369,"body":"of trying to shortcut development"},{"startTime":1105.369,"endTime":1106.899,"body":"team budgets and stuff like that."},{"startTime":1107.149,"endTime":1109.329,"body":"And they'll say, okay,"},{"startTime":1107.149,"endTime":1109.329,"body":"Brian, we believe you."},{"startTime":1109.699,"endTime":1110.799,"body":"Here are more developers."},{"startTime":1110.859,"endTime":1114.529,"body":"and then I, as a product manager"},{"startTime":1110.859,"endTime":1114.529,"body":"end up suffering because I get more"},{"startTime":1114.529,"endTime":1117.469,"body":"developers and I have to divide"},{"startTime":1114.529,"endTime":1117.469,"body":"development team two, and now I'm"},{"startTime":1117.479,"endTime":1120.249,"body":"managing two teams as a product"},{"startTime":1117.479,"endTime":1120.249,"body":"manager or three teams or whatever."},{"startTime":1120.249,"endTime":1122.669,"body":"And I'm like, Oh goodness,"},{"startTime":1120.249,"endTime":1122.669,"body":"I'm working three."},{"startTime":1123.074,"endTime":1127.614,"body":"Full time day jobs , like that is a"},{"startTime":1123.074,"endTime":1127.614,"body":"measure of success, believe it or not."},{"startTime":1127.634,"endTime":1128.574,"body":"It certainly is."},{"startTime":1128.574,"endTime":1131.134,"body":"I mean, look, one of the other things"},{"startTime":1128.574,"endTime":1131.134,"body":"that, , as you're in front of this"},{"startTime":1131.134,"endTime":1136.494,"body":"executive with this laundry list"},{"startTime":1131.134,"endTime":1136.494,"body":"of things is to get their help in"},{"startTime":1136.494,"endTime":1138.454,"body":"prioritizing that making trade offs."},{"startTime":1138.704,"endTime":1144.294,"body":"So go in there and say, let's together"},{"startTime":1138.704,"endTime":1144.294,"body":"with all the other PM, divide this"},{"startTime":1144.294,"endTime":1146.494,"body":"list into now, next, later, right?"},{"startTime":1146.564,"endTime":1146.764,"body":"Right."},{"startTime":1146.934,"endTime":1150.314,"body":"And then we can see what's"},{"startTime":1146.934,"endTime":1150.314,"body":"Priority one right now."},{"startTime":1150.444,"endTime":1151.224,"body":"What's next?"},{"startTime":1151.234,"endTime":1151.904,"body":"What's later?"},{"startTime":1151.944,"endTime":1152.574,"body":"What's never?"},{"startTime":1152.604,"endTime":1153.374,"body":"Yeah, perhaps"},{"startTime":1153.934,"endTime":1156.934,"body":"I will tell you like this is it's"},{"startTime":1153.934,"endTime":1156.934,"body":"scary to do this for the first time."},{"startTime":1157.054,"endTime":1162.804,"body":"Oh, yeah for sure But it's very rewarding"},{"startTime":1157.054,"endTime":1162.804,"body":"too, top five priorities one through five."},{"startTime":1162.804,"endTime":1166.184,"body":"That's really all you really need"},{"startTime":1162.804,"endTime":1166.184,"body":"Because that's all you can choose At"},{"startTime":1166.184,"endTime":1170.304,"body":"the epic level because executives don't"},{"startTime":1166.184,"endTime":1170.304,"body":"get down to the lower level at the"},{"startTime":1170.314,"endTime":1174.124,"body":"epic level epic meaning like a like"},{"startTime":1170.314,"endTime":1174.124,"body":"a broad swath of work like Subject"},{"startTime":1174.374,"endTime":1178.844,"body":"three to six weeks at a time kind of"},{"startTime":1174.374,"endTime":1178.844,"body":"initiatives that you're rolling along."},{"startTime":1178.854,"endTime":1180.394,"body":"That's what I define as an epic."},{"startTime":1180.664,"endTime":1183.594,"body":"It could be a feature to you"},{"startTime":1180.664,"endTime":1183.594,"body":"with whatever system you work in."},{"startTime":1183.594,"endTime":1184.674,"body":"I don't know what system you work in."},{"startTime":1184.674,"endTime":1186.544,"body":"Some people work in a system that's good."},{"startTime":1186.724,"endTime":1187.554,"body":"Some people work in."},{"startTime":1190.294,"endTime":1191.394,"body":"Sorry, I haven't done that in a while."},{"startTime":1192.104,"endTime":1192.914,"body":"Had to get it in."},{"startTime":1193.184,"endTime":1195.854,"body":"That's a, yeah, it's just,"},{"startTime":1193.184,"endTime":1195.854,"body":"I had to get it in there."},{"startTime":1196.094,"endTime":1199.954,"body":"Alex gives me a million dollars"},{"startTime":1196.094,"endTime":1199.954,"body":"every three to six podcasts that"},{"startTime":1199.954,"endTime":1203.054,"body":"I get that in , this discussion,"},{"startTime":1199.954,"endTime":1203.054,"body":"should not be a one and done."},{"startTime":1203.164,"endTime":1204.304,"body":"You're going to have to do this Again."},{"startTime":1204.334,"endTime":1208.824,"body":"Well, so the one to five that I said,"},{"startTime":1204.334,"endTime":1208.824,"body":", if you can get where your executives and"},{"startTime":1208.824,"endTime":1214.579,"body":"get alignment on the top one through five"},{"startTime":1208.824,"endTime":1214.579,"body":"items in terms of epic, larger buckets of"},{"startTime":1214.579,"endTime":1216.199,"body":"work, you're good for about three months."},{"startTime":1216.199,"endTime":1218.599,"body":"Five, one through five, like"},{"startTime":1216.199,"endTime":1218.599,"body":"you're, you're good like that."},{"startTime":1218.599,"endTime":1220.279,"body":"That's about what you"},{"startTime":1218.599,"endTime":1220.279,"body":"can do in the quarter."},{"startTime":1220.329,"endTime":1224.259,"body":"So if they align with you and listen, if"},{"startTime":1220.329,"endTime":1224.259,"body":"you go in front of 'em and you're like,"},{"startTime":1224.259,"endTime":1226.239,"body":"Hey, I've ranked the top five items."},{"startTime":1226.539,"endTime":1228.099,"body":"I've gathered some market feedback."},{"startTime":1228.349,"endTime":1231.489,"body":"you know, I've talked to customers, you"},{"startTime":1228.349,"endTime":1231.489,"body":"should do that before you talk to them."},{"startTime":1231.749,"endTime":1232.719,"body":"I've talked to some customers."},{"startTime":1232.879,"endTime":1234.949,"body":"This is the one through five"},{"startTime":1232.879,"endTime":1234.949,"body":"that I think we should do."},{"startTime":1235.279,"endTime":1236.819,"body":"Then you bring that up to executives."},{"startTime":1237.029,"endTime":1240.679,"body":"You, you kind of open yourself up to"},{"startTime":1237.029,"endTime":1240.679,"body":"a little pushback, a little argument,"},{"startTime":1240.679,"endTime":1242.029,"body":"a little justification back and forth."},{"startTime":1242.189,"endTime":1242.729,"body":"No problem."},{"startTime":1242.729,"endTime":1243.969,"body":"That's what they want anyway."},{"startTime":1244.219,"endTime":1247.819,"body":"And even if some of your stuff gets"},{"startTime":1244.219,"endTime":1247.819,"body":"moved around inside of that top five"},{"startTime":1248.229,"endTime":1251.549,"body":"or the executives, Point out something"},{"startTime":1248.229,"endTime":1251.549,"body":"that wasn't in that top five that"},{"startTime":1251.589,"endTime":1254.029,"body":"maybe you missed maybe you get some"},{"startTime":1251.589,"endTime":1254.029,"body":"blind spots because you're new and"},{"startTime":1254.029,"endTime":1257.499,"body":"that's perfectly fine I mean trade"},{"startTime":1254.029,"endTime":1257.499,"body":"offs are a regular part of business,"},{"startTime":1257.499,"endTime":1261.499,"body":"but listen even if they completely"},{"startTime":1257.499,"endTime":1261.499,"body":"shuffle your top five  you've got some"},{"startTime":1261.539,"endTime":1265.849,"body":"job security okay, and I point i'm"},{"startTime":1261.539,"endTime":1265.849,"body":"telling you this as someone experiencing"},{"startTime":1265.849,"endTime":1270.069,"body":"product management because  you've"},{"startTime":1265.849,"endTime":1270.069,"body":"got to bring them A list of options."},{"startTime":1270.069,"endTime":1273.339,"body":"You like, don't just take problems"},{"startTime":1270.069,"endTime":1273.339,"body":"to the green field of like,"},{"startTime":1273.339,"endTime":1274.989,"body":"these are all of our problems."},{"startTime":1275.019,"endTime":1275.259,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":1275.259,"endTime":1275.949,"body":"You don't want to do that."},{"startTime":1276.149,"endTime":1276.999,"body":"That's not good."},{"startTime":1276.999,"endTime":1278.989,"body":"They're going to be like, don't"},{"startTime":1276.999,"endTime":1278.989,"body":"you like, why did I hire You,"},{"startTime":1278.989,"endTime":1280.199,"body":"you have no sense of direction."},{"startTime":1280.199,"endTime":1283.479,"body":"I need someone playing on"},{"startTime":1280.199,"endTime":1283.479,"body":"my behalf you know, and"},{"startTime":1283.529,"endTime":1284.169,"body":"This is a big one."},{"startTime":1284.179,"endTime":1286.129,"body":"Like don't go in there"},{"startTime":1284.179,"endTime":1286.129,"body":"with a bunch of problems."},{"startTime":1286.139,"endTime":1286.559,"body":"Sure."},{"startTime":1286.579,"endTime":1286.869,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":1287.089,"endTime":1289.179,"body":"Generally speaking,"},{"startTime":1287.089,"endTime":1289.179,"body":"that's true regardless."},{"startTime":1289.199,"endTime":1290.419,"body":"Like it's not just this, right."},{"startTime":1290.439,"endTime":1293.319,"body":"Don't ever go to the executive"},{"startTime":1290.439,"endTime":1293.319,"body":"with here's a problem."},{"startTime":1293.319,"endTime":1294.419,"body":"Well, here are five problems."},{"startTime":1294.899,"endTime":1298.429,"body":"Go in there and say, here's my"},{"startTime":1294.899,"endTime":1298.429,"body":"attempt at trying to solve these."},{"startTime":1298.709,"endTime":1299.319,"body":"What do you think?"},{"startTime":1299.569,"endTime":1303.209,"body":"So, I mean, I get the sounding"},{"startTime":1299.569,"endTime":1303.209,"body":"slash being burnt out."},{"startTime":1303.449,"endTime":1305.119,"body":"I completely get that."},{"startTime":1305.129,"endTime":1308.909,"body":"I mean, especially people, if they're"},{"startTime":1305.129,"endTime":1308.909,"body":"in these silos, they're already beating"},{"startTime":1308.909,"endTime":1312.449,"body":"their heads,  against the borders of the"},{"startTime":1308.909,"endTime":1312.449,"body":"silo, they're already having a tough time."},{"startTime":1312.719,"endTime":1317.279,"body":"You as a platform product manager, you're"},{"startTime":1312.719,"endTime":1317.279,"body":"already kind of cutting across silos."},{"startTime":1317.519,"endTime":1318.719,"body":"You have this team that isn't."},{"startTime":1319.124,"endTime":1320.464,"body":"Contained to one silo."},{"startTime":1320.464,"endTime":1325.344,"body":"So you have the ability to cross"},{"startTime":1320.464,"endTime":1325.344,"body":"products slash silos slash departments,"},{"startTime":1325.374,"endTime":1328.494,"body":"whatever people are going to"},{"startTime":1325.374,"endTime":1328.494,"body":"put on you, their expectations."},{"startTime":1328.494,"endTime":1332.924,"body":"Cause you seem like you move faster"},{"startTime":1328.494,"endTime":1332.924,"body":"and probably you can move faster, but"},{"startTime":1332.934,"endTime":1336.034,"body":"that's like, you can't get bogged down"},{"startTime":1332.934,"endTime":1336.034,"body":"in why this is like, , I don't remember"},{"startTime":1336.034,"endTime":1340.644,"body":"what podcasts we did recently where we"},{"startTime":1336.034,"endTime":1340.644,"body":"said, like Try to knock out those wins."},{"startTime":1340.664,"endTime":1342.104,"body":"Maybe it was one 89."},{"startTime":1342.114,"endTime":1346.164,"body":"We said like when you're new, try to"},{"startTime":1342.114,"endTime":1346.164,"body":"knock out those wins as fast as possible."},{"startTime":1346.164,"endTime":1350.014,"body":"Like that, like that, that's stuff to"},{"startTime":1346.164,"endTime":1350.014,"body":"do what you're new,  over the course"},{"startTime":1350.014,"endTime":1353.924,"body":"of time, like when you've been there a"},{"startTime":1350.014,"endTime":1353.924,"body":"year, like it's at that point, it's not"},{"startTime":1353.944,"endTime":1356.024,"body":"about knocking out quick wins anymore."},{"startTime":1356.174,"endTime":1360.914,"body":"Sometimes it is, but it's about"},{"startTime":1356.174,"endTime":1360.914,"body":"establishing like, , you can rely on me"},{"startTime":1361.384,"endTime":1363.744,"body":"to put stuff out on a regular cadence."},{"startTime":1364.174,"endTime":1365.814,"body":"That's that will be helpful."},{"startTime":1366.064,"endTime":1366.634,"body":"Absolutely."},{"startTime":1366.634,"endTime":1368.494,"body":"And resist the urge to pay favorites."},{"startTime":1368.914,"endTime":1369.274,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":1369.304,"endTime":1370.924,"body":"I mean be the best partner you can."},{"startTime":1371.244,"endTime":1374.744,"body":"Some folks are burnt out because they're"},{"startTime":1371.244,"endTime":1374.744,"body":"just like eternally understaffed."},{"startTime":1374.994,"endTime":1378.824,"body":"Some management, especially when you"},{"startTime":1374.994,"endTime":1378.824,"body":"have hardcore silos like this, , they"},{"startTime":1378.824,"endTime":1381.964,"body":"don't know how to track metrics"},{"startTime":1378.824,"endTime":1381.964,"body":"across the silos, across the products."},{"startTime":1382.404,"endTime":1384.254,"body":"They're project, not product faced."},{"startTime":1384.264,"endTime":1384.634,"body":"Yes."},{"startTime":1384.644,"endTime":1386.594,"body":"And the metrics don't really line up."},{"startTime":1386.744,"endTime":1390.434,"body":"So, because the metrics don't"},{"startTime":1386.744,"endTime":1390.434,"body":"line up, the financing doesn't"},{"startTime":1390.434,"endTime":1392.124,"body":"quite lend itself properly."},{"startTime":1392.164,"endTime":1397.854,"body":"Way back in episode 95 We did project led"},{"startTime":1392.164,"endTime":1397.854,"body":"to product led with mike miller, right?"},{"startTime":1397.854,"endTime":1401.144,"body":"I mean mike's always fun to have"},{"startTime":1397.854,"endTime":1401.144,"body":"on the podcast , maybe that's"},{"startTime":1401.394,"endTime":1405.534,"body":"Similar,  we did new product owners"},{"startTime":1401.394,"endTime":1405.534,"body":"and product managers in episode 86."},{"startTime":1405.794,"endTime":1407.314,"body":"So it's been quite a while."},{"startTime":1407.314,"endTime":1410.964,"body":"I'm a hundred episodes easily since"},{"startTime":1407.314,"endTime":1410.964,"body":"we've tackled two years plus we've"},{"startTime":1410.984,"endTime":1416.334,"body":"tackled this, this topic of let's move"},{"startTime":1410.984,"endTime":1416.334,"body":"from project to product, you know?"},{"startTime":1416.414,"endTime":1417.034,"body":"Very interesting."},{"startTime":1417.034,"endTime":1418.374,"body":"Maybe we should revisit that one."},{"startTime":1418.604,"endTime":1419.074,"body":"I agree."},{"startTime":1419.194,"endTime":1419.384,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":1419.384,"endTime":1420.294,"body":"What does good look like?"},{"startTime":1420.304,"endTime":1422.674,"body":"That was another question that was"},{"startTime":1420.304,"endTime":1422.674,"body":"asked in the comment is like, Hey, how"},{"startTime":1422.674,"endTime":1426.314,"body":"do I know when I'm being successful,"},{"startTime":1422.674,"endTime":1426.314,"body":"how do I know what good looks like?"},{"startTime":1426.554,"endTime":1427.774,"body":"So how, how can I help?"},{"startTime":1428.024,"endTime":1431.564,"body":"How do I know what good looks like"},{"startTime":1428.024,"endTime":1431.564,"body":"in terms of my team and falling into"},{"startTime":1431.564,"endTime":1436.204,"body":"good ways of working as opposed to"},{"startTime":1431.564,"endTime":1436.204,"body":"with the silos and ineffectual ways"},{"startTime":1436.204,"endTime":1439.934,"body":"working, how do I align with the"},{"startTime":1436.204,"endTime":1439.934,"body":"streamline teams, you know what I mean?"},{"startTime":1439.934,"endTime":1443.024,"body":"I kind of want to start with how do I"},{"startTime":1439.934,"endTime":1443.024,"body":"better align with the streamline teams?"},{"startTime":1443.104,"endTime":1446.664,"body":"Cause you can get a lot of trouble"},{"startTime":1443.104,"endTime":1446.664,"body":"with this like, Oh, Brian, you're just"},{"startTime":1446.664,"endTime":1451.564,"body":"looking to copy our features and more to"},{"startTime":1446.664,"endTime":1451.564,"body":"steal our features or to take them over."},{"startTime":1451.744,"endTime":1452.124,"body":"Right."},{"startTime":1452.174,"endTime":1455.624,"body":"You know, you're looking to steal"},{"startTime":1452.174,"endTime":1455.624,"body":"funding from us or whatever let's say"},{"startTime":1455.624,"endTime":1460.279,"body":"for example, I've got a, I've got a"},{"startTime":1455.624,"endTime":1460.279,"body":"feature in, , as a product manager for,"},{"startTime":1460.389,"endTime":1462.569,"body":", personal banking, I've got a feature."},{"startTime":1462.949,"endTime":1465.989,"body":"People can open accounts or whatever, and"},{"startTime":1462.949,"endTime":1465.989,"body":"like now the platform team wants to take"},{"startTime":1465.989,"endTime":1469.689,"body":"over the opening account feature for me,"},{"startTime":1465.989,"endTime":1469.689,"body":"but that makes a lot of money, gets a lot"},{"startTime":1469.689,"endTime":1471.649,"body":"of transactions, gets a lot of eyeballs."},{"startTime":1472.074,"endTime":1476.074,"body":"Like you're stealing my best performing"},{"startTime":1472.074,"endTime":1476.074,"body":"feature i'm gonna resist that."},{"startTime":1476.284,"endTime":1479.454,"body":"Yeah, it's certainly understandable"},{"startTime":1476.284,"endTime":1479.454,"body":"that sort of sentiment, right?"},{"startTime":1479.554,"endTime":1484.784,"body":"But the platform team by the nature of"},{"startTime":1479.554,"endTime":1484.784,"body":"being a platform team is best positioned"},{"startTime":1485.034,"endTime":1487.504,"body":"To, , align between streamline teams."},{"startTime":1487.794,"endTime":1491.844,"body":"So I would not necessarily focus"},{"startTime":1487.794,"endTime":1491.844,"body":"at the feature level so much."},{"startTime":1491.934,"endTime":1495.894,"body":"I would definitely get everybody"},{"startTime":1491.934,"endTime":1495.894,"body":"in a room and say, let's just"},{"startTime":1495.944,"endTime":1497.094,"body":"talk about what you're doing."},{"startTime":1497.154,"endTime":1501.044,"body":"Yeah , and then you'll find a team's"},{"startTime":1497.154,"endTime":1501.044,"body":"doing something that someone else is"},{"startTime":1501.094,"endTime":1503.214,"body":"doing something very similar, perhaps."},{"startTime":1503.464,"endTime":1506.384,"body":"That's where you could say well, maybe"},{"startTime":1503.464,"endTime":1506.384,"body":"I can add value here Take that off your"},{"startTime":1506.394,"endTime":1510.594,"body":"hands and anybody else's and we'll come"},{"startTime":1506.394,"endTime":1510.594,"body":"up with a single way of doing that that"},{"startTime":1510.594,"endTime":1515.434,"body":"you can all use So what i'm saying is"},{"startTime":1510.594,"endTime":1515.434,"body":"make it about them Instead of, , going"},{"startTime":1515.434,"endTime":1518.534,"body":"in and just saying, well we're going"},{"startTime":1515.434,"endTime":1518.534,"body":"to take this feature from you and"},{"startTime":1518.534,"endTime":1520.134,"body":"that feature from it's about them."},{"startTime":1520.364,"endTime":1522.374,"body":"You're trying to help them reduce it."},{"startTime":1522.404,"endTime":1526.514,"body":"You said this earlier, reduce the"},{"startTime":1522.404,"endTime":1526.514,"body":"cognitive overload on their backlog."},{"startTime":1526.544,"endTime":1530.274,"body":"So they can focus truly on features that"},{"startTime":1526.544,"endTime":1530.274,"body":"they're, they're, , trying to put out."},{"startTime":1530.684,"endTime":1531.844,"body":", so you take away all the."},{"startTime":1532.094,"endTime":1535.964,"body":"It's not really overhead, but, it"},{"startTime":1532.094,"endTime":1535.964,"body":"can be positioned as overhead, right?"},{"startTime":1536.314,"endTime":1539.514,"body":", so you because it's not value"},{"startTime":1536.314,"endTime":1539.514,"body":"adding necessarily, right?"},{"startTime":1539.564,"endTime":1544.004,"body":"It's just necessary it's a necessary"},{"startTime":1539.564,"endTime":1544.004,"body":"evil that they have to do these things"},{"startTime":1544.264,"endTime":1548.609,"body":"Well, we're gonna free you up from"},{"startTime":1544.264,"endTime":1548.609,"body":"that burden right and you and you So"},{"startTime":1548.609,"endTime":1550.239,"body":"that's the way I would position that."},{"startTime":1550.609,"endTime":1550.899,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":1551.269,"endTime":1554.269,"body":", like I think about, , my work in"},{"startTime":1551.269,"endTime":1554.269,"body":"mobile apps earlier in my career, like"},{"startTime":1554.289,"endTime":1558.829,"body":"the authentication was one that the"},{"startTime":1554.289,"endTime":1558.829,"body":"platform quote platform level, that"},{"startTime":1558.829,"endTime":1560.279,"body":"was one that we took off the teams."},{"startTime":1560.279,"endTime":1561.989,"body":"Like no team had to deal"},{"startTime":1560.279,"endTime":1561.989,"body":"with authentication."},{"startTime":1562.309,"endTime":1566.709,"body":"And now that we're in 2024, when we're"},{"startTime":1562.309,"endTime":1566.709,"body":"shooting this podcast, most teams"},{"startTime":1566.709,"endTime":1568.369,"body":"don't deal with authentication anymore."},{"startTime":1568.369,"endTime":1572.114,"body":"Now it's like, everybody's got,"},{"startTime":1568.369,"endTime":1572.114,"body":"either, , Octa authentication or"},{"startTime":1572.124,"endTime":1576.254,"body":"multi leg authentication it's a"},{"startTime":1572.124,"endTime":1576.254,"body":"standard thing now, 10, 12 years"},{"startTime":1576.254,"endTime":1577.354,"body":"ago, it was not a standard thing."},{"startTime":1577.404,"endTime":1578.464,"body":"Everyone was rolling their own."},{"startTime":1578.464,"endTime":1582.654,"body":"Multi factor authentication that"},{"startTime":1578.464,"endTime":1582.654,"body":"was ubiquitous was not a thing."},{"startTime":1582.664,"endTime":1587.874,"body":"you had to build your own it's like,"},{"startTime":1582.664,"endTime":1587.874,"body":", everyone uses Stripe now for payments."},{"startTime":1588.124,"endTime":1589.394,"body":"Stripe didn't exist."},{"startTime":1589.724,"endTime":1594.354,"body":"You know, 15 years ago when, so like,"},{"startTime":1589.724,"endTime":1594.354,"body":"how are you going to take payments?"},{"startTime":1594.354,"endTime":1598.174,"body":"Well, it was a big deal to take payments."},{"startTime":1598.224,"endTime":1601.384,"body":"Now that we've developed this thing,"},{"startTime":1598.224,"endTime":1601.384,"body":"it's not a big deal anymore so"},{"startTime":1601.414,"endTime":1604.714,"body":"that, that's the platform team kind"},{"startTime":1601.414,"endTime":1604.714,"body":"of like, what is every team doing?"},{"startTime":1604.714,"endTime":1607.564,"body":"That's painful for them"},{"startTime":1604.714,"endTime":1607.564,"body":"that you could lift."},{"startTime":1607.849,"endTime":1608.359,"body":"Off of them."},{"startTime":1608.439,"endTime":1612.119,"body":"It may not be something they talk"},{"startTime":1608.439,"endTime":1612.119,"body":"about when they get together a"},{"startTime":1612.119,"endTime":1616.389,"body":"bunch of product managers, cross"},{"startTime":1612.119,"endTime":1616.389,"body":"functionally across products, talking"},{"startTime":1616.389,"endTime":1617.979,"body":"about like what is integrating."},{"startTime":1617.989,"endTime":1620.779,"body":"And then the platform product"},{"startTime":1617.989,"endTime":1620.779,"body":"manager, just listening,"},{"startTime":1620.789,"endTime":1622.499,"body":"fly on the wall, listening."},{"startTime":1622.749,"endTime":1626.889,"body":"Hopefully they got invited to that"},{"startTime":1622.749,"endTime":1626.889,"body":"session, by the way, but listening and"},{"startTime":1626.899,"endTime":1630.709,"body":"in addition to the group where they're"},{"startTime":1626.899,"endTime":1630.709,"body":"all together, going to their individual."},{"startTime":1631.109,"endTime":1635.489,"body":"Sprint reviews, critically listening"},{"startTime":1631.109,"endTime":1635.489,"body":"to what they're doing and then lifting"},{"startTime":1635.489,"endTime":1639.069,"body":"features and talking about it and"},{"startTime":1635.489,"endTime":1639.069,"body":"building their backlog with the other"},{"startTime":1639.069,"endTime":1644.729,"body":"product managers and tech leads and maybe"},{"startTime":1639.069,"endTime":1644.729,"body":"some key, , stakeholders as collected"},{"startTime":1644.739,"endTime":1649.244,"body":"stakeholders for the  platform backlog"},{"startTime":1649.244,"endTime":1651.754,"body":"I still have this thing in the"},{"startTime":1649.244,"endTime":1651.754,"body":"back of my mind of, maybe the"},{"startTime":1651.754,"endTime":1655.354,"body":"individual product managers don't"},{"startTime":1651.754,"endTime":1655.354,"body":"want to give up that feature."},{"startTime":1655.514,"endTime":1659.164,"body":"It's almost as if the platform"},{"startTime":1655.514,"endTime":1659.164,"body":"product manager, but you"},{"startTime":1659.164,"endTime":1662.484,"body":"need a strong background in."},{"startTime":1662.784,"endTime":1666.724,"body":"Crafting a strong vision from the"},{"startTime":1662.784,"endTime":1666.724,"body":"ground up to say, Hey, we're going"},{"startTime":1666.724,"endTime":1667.974,"body":"to take these features from you."},{"startTime":1668.224,"endTime":1669.724,"body":"Cause that's product managers."},{"startTime":1669.974,"endTime":1671.334,"body":"That's what they're going to hear."},{"startTime":1671.514,"endTime":1673.614,"body":"We're going to hear that,"},{"startTime":1671.514,"endTime":1673.614,"body":"but you shouldn't say that"},{"startTime":1673.634,"endTime":1676.534,"body":"regardless of the way you say it,"},{"startTime":1673.634,"endTime":1676.534,"body":"regardless of the way you say it."},{"startTime":1676.534,"endTime":1678.584,"body":"We're going to take these"},{"startTime":1676.534,"endTime":1678.584,"body":"features away from you."},{"startTime":1678.604,"endTime":1681.144,"body":"We're going to free you up from"},{"startTime":1678.604,"endTime":1681.144,"body":"having to do these features."},{"startTime":1681.434,"endTime":1681.834,"body":"That's right."},{"startTime":1681.864,"endTime":1682.604,"body":"We're going to manage it."},{"startTime":1682.674,"endTime":1683.784,"body":"I'm sorry, very ranty."},{"startTime":1684.254,"endTime":1684.984,"body":"This is where I'm going."},{"startTime":1685.404,"endTime":1691.784,"body":"The platform product manager needs"},{"startTime":1685.404,"endTime":1691.784,"body":"to be more experienced than the other"},{"startTime":1691.834,"endTime":1697.324,"body":"streamlined product managers, more"},{"startTime":1691.834,"endTime":1697.324,"body":"advanced, and they need to present a"},{"startTime":1697.454,"endTime":1700.794,"body":"better, more cohesive systemic vision."},{"startTime":1701.044,"endTime":1705.974,"body":"With the features that the individual"},{"startTime":1701.044,"endTime":1705.974,"body":"streamlined roadmaps are delivering."},{"startTime":1706.114,"endTime":1710.804,"body":"The only way I know how to do"},{"startTime":1706.114,"endTime":1710.804,"body":"that is to be more advanced in."},{"startTime":1711.249,"endTime":1712.239,"body":"You know, that is solid."},{"startTime":1712.269,"endTime":1712.889,"body":"Definitely."},{"startTime":1712.919,"endTime":1714.059,"body":"That's definitely the case."},{"startTime":1714.089,"endTime":1718.649,"body":"I think that you can also use"},{"startTime":1714.089,"endTime":1718.649,"body":"as your sidekick, the enterprise"},{"startTime":1718.699,"endTime":1722.629,"body":"architect, because they have"},{"startTime":1718.699,"endTime":1722.629,"body":"that systemic view, right?"},{"startTime":1722.959,"endTime":1724.759,"body":"Of the whole platform."},{"startTime":1724.979,"endTime":1726.739,"body":"So they could help you with that."},{"startTime":1726.769,"endTime":1730.249,"body":"they could help you with, , trying"},{"startTime":1726.769,"endTime":1730.249,"body":"to figure out the design of it."},{"startTime":1730.379,"endTime":1733.009,"body":"And say, yeah, this metal"},{"startTime":1730.379,"endTime":1733.009,"body":"belongs over here, or we can"},{"startTime":1733.009,"endTime":1734.559,"body":"standardize all of these things."},{"startTime":1734.859,"endTime":1736.239,"body":"Centralize, et cetera."},{"startTime":1736.249,"endTime":1738.719,"body":", so yeah, you could"},{"startTime":1736.249,"endTime":1738.719,"body":"definitely, they're your ally."},{"startTime":1738.719,"endTime":1739.569,"body":"Let me put it that way."},{"startTime":1739.819,"endTime":1744.019,"body":"We do have some other podcasts on this"},{"startTime":1739.819,"endTime":1744.019,"body":"one as guardrails of what not to do right."},{"startTime":1744.019,"endTime":1749.469,"body":"arguing 1 55 weapon weaponizing"},{"startTime":1744.019,"endTime":1749.469,"body":"standardization and, , arguing 1"},{"startTime":1749.469,"endTime":1754.389,"body":"52 to a lower degree, , weaponizing"},{"startTime":1749.469,"endTime":1754.389,"body":"efficiency,  weaponizing standardization."},{"startTime":1754.719,"endTime":1755.229,"body":"Definitely."},{"startTime":1755.229,"endTime":1757.899,"body":"that's a good one for guardrails"},{"startTime":1755.229,"endTime":1757.899,"body":"in this one  the platform"},{"startTime":1757.899,"endTime":1760.069,"body":"team, one of their best tools."},{"startTime":1760.319,"endTime":1763.699,"body":"Is to say, what can we take that all"},{"startTime":1760.319,"endTime":1763.699,"body":"the teams are doing individually?"},{"startTime":1763.949,"endTime":1765.149,"body":"And they might be doing well."},{"startTime":1765.249,"endTime":1768.959,"body":"Let me just copy what you're doing"},{"startTime":1765.249,"endTime":1768.959,"body":"and have this other team maintain it."},{"startTime":1769.199,"endTime":1771.339,"body":"As opposed to like, let me take"},{"startTime":1769.199,"endTime":1771.339,"body":"what you're doing and revise it."},{"startTime":1771.339,"endTime":1772.759,"body":"Cause it sucks or whatever."},{"startTime":1772.809,"endTime":1776.879,"body":"So like in weaponizing in 155 weaponizing"},{"startTime":1772.809,"endTime":1776.879,"body":"standardization, we talked about"},{"startTime":1776.879,"endTime":1779.349,"body":"a lot of cases where the org will."},{"startTime":1779.769,"endTime":1780.739,"body":"Try to standardize."},{"startTime":1780.739,"endTime":1782.689,"body":"But what they're really doing"},{"startTime":1780.739,"endTime":1782.689,"body":"is they're trying to centralize"},{"startTime":1782.689,"endTime":1783.679,"body":"and take control of things."},{"startTime":1783.999,"endTime":1785.779,"body":"That is not what we're talking about."},{"startTime":1785.809,"endTime":1787.569,"body":"Authentication is a great example."},{"startTime":1787.909,"endTime":1791.659,"body":"Rather than you having to"},{"startTime":1787.909,"endTime":1791.659,"body":"deal with all the edge cases."},{"startTime":1791.984,"endTime":1796.404,"body":"Of authentication and then whenever"},{"startTime":1791.984,"endTime":1796.404,"body":"libraries go in and out of vogue or in"},{"startTime":1796.404,"endTime":1799.834,"body":"and out of support or whatever, cutting"},{"startTime":1796.404,"endTime":1799.834,"body":"over like rather than deal with all that,"},{"startTime":1799.874,"endTime":1803.814,"body":"we'll deal with all that and all you need"},{"startTime":1799.874,"endTime":1803.814,"body":"to do is when you need to authenticate,"},{"startTime":1804.434,"endTime":1808.534,"body":"you just call the authentication"},{"startTime":1804.434,"endTime":1808.534,"body":"endpoint and you know, if you call"},{"startTime":1808.954,"endTime":1811.944,"body":"slash latest, it will always work."},{"startTime":1812.444,"endTime":1816.134,"body":"You're essentially offering them"},{"startTime":1812.444,"endTime":1816.134,"body":"functionality as a service, like"},{"startTime":1816.174,"endTime":1820.074,"body":"authentication as a service with pretty"},{"startTime":1816.174,"endTime":1820.074,"body":"much a guarantee it's going to work."},{"startTime":1820.324,"endTime":1821.804,"body":"So they don't have to worry about it."},{"startTime":1821.814,"endTime":1823.264,"body":"They can focus on other things."},{"startTime":1823.514,"endTime":1824.594,"body":"Yeah, absolutely."},{"startTime":1824.844,"endTime":1826.434,"body":", look, what do, what do we miss here?"},{"startTime":1826.484,"endTime":1828.954,"body":"Well, the last one you've already"},{"startTime":1826.484,"endTime":1828.954,"body":"incorporated are recommendations."},{"startTime":1829.154,"endTime":1831.014,"body":"Maybe we could talk about books."},{"startTime":1831.194,"endTime":1833.844,"body":"I mean, Team Topologies is the"},{"startTime":1831.194,"endTime":1833.844,"body":"obvious one that springs to mind."},{"startTime":1833.904,"endTime":1836.054,"body":"Obviously, you need to go"},{"startTime":1833.904,"endTime":1836.054,"body":"through Team Topologies."},{"startTime":1836.344,"endTime":1839.684,"body":"I'm trying to think of like, the"},{"startTime":1836.344,"endTime":1839.684,"body":"new economics that like the Deming"},{"startTime":1839.684,"endTime":1842.964,"body":"book about, , where he talks"},{"startTime":1839.684,"endTime":1842.964,"body":"about systems like the, , shoot."},{"startTime":1842.984,"endTime":1845.594,"body":"What was the, , reinventing"},{"startTime":1842.984,"endTime":1845.594,"body":"the organization."},{"startTime":1845.694,"endTime":1848.574,"body":", there's a few books that talk about"},{"startTime":1845.694,"endTime":1848.574,"body":"systems that, you know what I mean?"},{"startTime":1848.934,"endTime":1851.124,"body":"Coming up with a systems view of things."},{"startTime":1851.324,"endTime":1853.284,"body":", I can't remember the"},{"startTime":1851.324,"endTime":1853.284,"body":"Deming podcast that we did."},{"startTime":1853.534,"endTime":1857.924,"body":"I think it was 181 Deming's 14"},{"startTime":1853.534,"endTime":1857.924,"body":"points where he talks about systems."},{"startTime":1858.174,"endTime":1861.924,"body":"a lot of stuff where you think about"},{"startTime":1858.174,"endTime":1861.924,"body":"optimizing for the system rather than"},{"startTime":1861.924,"endTime":1865.614,"body":"optimizing for an individual feature"},{"startTime":1861.924,"endTime":1865.614,"body":"or individual product or product"},{"startTime":1865.614,"endTime":1868.694,"body":"line or whatever, optimizing the"},{"startTime":1865.614,"endTime":1868.694,"body":"whole rather than the whole, yeah."},{"startTime":1868.694,"endTime":1871.554,"body":"Like that, the product manager for a."},{"startTime":1871.804,"endTime":1876.954,"body":"Platform team really needs to, , take"},{"startTime":1871.804,"endTime":1876.954,"body":"a systems view of, of everything"},{"startTime":1876.954,"endTime":1880.574,"body":"working together, , rather than"},{"startTime":1876.954,"endTime":1880.574,"body":"optimizing for one individual."},{"startTime":1880.594,"endTime":1884.184,"body":"I feel like if you want to score"},{"startTime":1880.594,"endTime":1884.184,"body":"quick wins, yeah, you probably"},{"startTime":1884.184,"endTime":1888.15,"body":"can optimize for an individual you"},{"startTime":1884.184,"endTime":1888.15,"body":"know, it's a hard one to get out of"},{"startTime":1888.18,"endTime":1889.24,"body":"though, once you're in there, right."},{"startTime":1889.27,"endTime":1892.69,"body":"I mean, you don't want to propagate"},{"startTime":1889.27,"endTime":1892.69,"body":"that once you optimize for that"},{"startTime":1892.69,"endTime":1893.99,"body":"and you get a few quick wins."},{"startTime":1894.345,"endTime":1896.275,"body":"Like that, that's like"},{"startTime":1894.345,"endTime":1896.275,"body":"the path to the dark side."},{"startTime":1896.295,"endTime":1898.675,"body":"It's like those quick wins are easy."},{"startTime":1898.685,"endTime":1900.185,"body":"They're pretty easy to punch out."},{"startTime":1900.185,"endTime":1902.335,"body":"You don't have to coordinate"},{"startTime":1900.185,"endTime":1902.335,"body":"with so many people."},{"startTime":1902.495,"endTime":1903.955,"body":"You have to make so many people happy."},{"startTime":1903.955,"endTime":1904.685,"body":"And you know what?"},{"startTime":1904.775,"endTime":1906.815,"body":"Like a lot of people are happy doing that."},{"startTime":1907.065,"endTime":1910.795,"body":"You know, I mean, until they're"},{"startTime":1907.065,"endTime":1910.795,"body":"not exactly, yeah, you that"},{"startTime":1910.845,"endTime":1912.165,"body":"it's coming at you, right?"},{"startTime":1912.175,"endTime":1914.315,"body":"It's just, you can't see"},{"startTime":1912.175,"endTime":1914.315,"body":"it until it hits you."},{"startTime":1914.545,"endTime":1916.295,"body":"Yeah, absolutely agree."},{"startTime":1916.375,"endTime":1919.815,"body":"So, yeah, I mean, like we have a few"},{"startTime":1916.375,"endTime":1919.815,"body":"podcasts, , there's one or two books"},{"startTime":1919.815,"endTime":1922.975,"body":"out there with our team topologies, his"},{"startTime":1919.815,"endTime":1922.975,"body":"main one, obviously read, read that."},{"startTime":1922.975,"endTime":1926.915,"body":"I definitely, know what metrics"},{"startTime":1922.975,"endTime":1926.915,"body":"are important for at a team level."},{"startTime":1926.915,"endTime":1928.545,"body":"They're not really at a platform level."},{"startTime":1928.795,"endTime":1929.155,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":1929.156,"endTime":1933.205,"body":"I mean, the thing to do is just, if"},{"startTime":1929.156,"endTime":1933.205,"body":"you're on a platform team, think about"},{"startTime":1933.525,"endTime":1937.445,"body":"your offering As a service, you're"},{"startTime":1933.525,"endTime":1937.445,"body":"basically providing services, right?"},{"startTime":1937.835,"endTime":1940.865,"body":"That means that the people that"},{"startTime":1937.835,"endTime":1940.865,"body":"you're providing services to, they"},{"startTime":1940.865,"endTime":1942.535,"body":"don't have to build it from scratch."},{"startTime":1942.955,"endTime":1946.035,"body":"And that's got to be worth"},{"startTime":1942.955,"endTime":1946.035,"body":"something for them, right?"},{"startTime":1946.185,"endTime":1948.805,"body":"Cause while they're doing that, they're"},{"startTime":1946.185,"endTime":1948.805,"body":"not doing something they should be doing."},{"startTime":1949.235,"endTime":1949.555,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":1949.575,"endTime":1952.295,"body":"I mean, the other thing I would say is the"},{"startTime":1949.575,"endTime":1952.295,"body":"platform team, like the difference between"},{"startTime":1952.295,"endTime":1957.005,"body":"the platform team and the, as a service"},{"startTime":1952.295,"endTime":1957.005,"body":"team for me would be like the platform"},{"startTime":1957.015,"endTime":1962.335,"body":"team almost has to cast a much wider net"},{"startTime":1957.015,"endTime":1962.335,"body":"than any of the stream aligned teams."},{"startTime":1962.71,"endTime":1966.07,"body":"Definitely the as a service teams because"},{"startTime":1962.71,"endTime":1966.07,"body":"he has a service seems to just need to"},{"startTime":1966.66,"endTime":1970.49,"body":"service the platform teams that are using"},{"startTime":1966.66,"endTime":1970.49,"body":"their service and they don't really care"},{"startTime":1970.49,"endTime":1975.26,"body":"about customers or teams or anybody else"},{"startTime":1970.49,"endTime":1975.26,"body":"outside that as a platform team, you"},{"startTime":1975.26,"endTime":1977.3,"body":"really need to care about everything."},{"startTime":1977.3,"endTime":1980.84,"body":"Cause you're like, your stuff could"},{"startTime":1977.3,"endTime":1980.84,"body":"come out of anywhere to surprise the"},{"startTime":1980.84,"endTime":1982.55,"body":"business, to be like, Oh, surprise."},{"startTime":1982.55,"endTime":1986.34,"body":"This is our top priority now you"},{"startTime":1982.55,"endTime":1986.34,"body":"almost need to be in all of the teams."},{"startTime":1986.75,"endTime":1987.71,"body":"Reviews."},{"startTime":1987.96,"endTime":1990.36,"body":"You need a window in every team's roadmap."},{"startTime":1990.71,"endTime":1993.86,"body":", you need a window into where"},{"startTime":1990.71,"endTime":1993.86,"body":"the business is going next."},{"startTime":1994.15,"endTime":1997.34,"body":"I would say if you're not involved in your"},{"startTime":1994.15,"endTime":1997.34,"body":"industry conferences and stuff like that"},{"startTime":1997.34,"endTime":2001.16,"body":"and see what the upcoming things are you"},{"startTime":1997.34,"endTime":2001.16,"body":"need a window into technology as well."},{"startTime":2001.21,"endTime":2005.94,"body":"I sort of envisioned a platform team is"},{"startTime":2001.21,"endTime":2005.94,"body":"sort of deeper in the technology than the"},{"startTime":2005.94,"endTime":2011.32,"body":"normal PM on the surface, but , unlike a"},{"startTime":2005.94,"endTime":2011.32,"body":"lot of the streamlined teams, I feel you"},{"startTime":2011.32,"endTime":2015.56,"body":"should be further ahead and more involved."},{"startTime":2015.82,"endTime":2019.8,"body":"I see it as a more difficult"},{"startTime":2015.82,"endTime":2019.8,"body":"job, to be honest, as any of"},{"startTime":2019.8,"endTime":2022.23,"body":"the individual streamline teams."},{"startTime":2022.33,"endTime":2023.46,"body":"I concur with that."},{"startTime":2023.46,"endTime":2026.05,"body":"I think you need to also keep"},{"startTime":2023.46,"endTime":2026.05,"body":"your pulse on what's going on"},{"startTime":2026.05,"endTime":2027.43,"body":"with your competitors as well."},{"startTime":2027.46,"endTime":2029.02,"body":"Yeah so you're not blindsided."},{"startTime":2029.12,"endTime":2029.43,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":2029.45,"endTime":2033.42,"body":"Cause the impact is magnified when you"},{"startTime":2029.45,"endTime":2033.42,"body":"get overtaken by them, it's, it's tough"},{"startTime":2033.42,"endTime":2037.294,"body":"because , it's a product management"},{"startTime":2033.42,"endTime":2037.294,"body":"role that requires a lot of, EQ."},{"startTime":2038.165,"endTime":2041.365,"body":"To understand like one of the things"},{"startTime":2038.165,"endTime":2041.365,"body":"that we pointed out earlier was,"},{"startTime":2041.535,"endTime":2046.145,"body":"well, I've interviewed a lot of the"},{"startTime":2041.535,"endTime":2046.145,"body":"PMs, my peer PMs in the different"},{"startTime":2046.145,"endTime":2047.285,"body":"programs around the business."},{"startTime":2047.515,"endTime":2049.645,"body":"And I found that like their"},{"startTime":2047.515,"endTime":2049.645,"body":"teams are very overloaded and"},{"startTime":2049.645,"endTime":2050.875,"body":"they're very stressed and whatnot."},{"startTime":2051.165,"endTime":2056.125,"body":"Well, that's part of your job"},{"startTime":2051.165,"endTime":2056.125,"body":"is you're trying to de stress"},{"startTime":2056.335,"endTime":2058.545,"body":"them by using your team."},{"startTime":2058.965,"endTime":2064.405,"body":"To pick features up that will kind of take"},{"startTime":2058.965,"endTime":2064.405,"body":"the cognitive load off of the individual"},{"startTime":2064.405,"endTime":2066.215,"body":"teams and make their day to day jobs."},{"startTime":2066.285,"endTime":2066.835,"body":"Exactly."},{"startTime":2067.005,"endTime":2068.005,"body":"That's all part of your job."},{"startTime":2068.165,"endTime":2068.535,"body":"Correct."},{"startTime":2068.545,"endTime":2071.495,"body":"And as, as part of doing"},{"startTime":2068.545,"endTime":2071.495,"body":"that, you're basically having"},{"startTime":2071.495,"endTime":2073.055,"body":"a magnifying effect, right?"},{"startTime":2073.055,"endTime":2076.885,"body":"Because your team could offer"},{"startTime":2073.055,"endTime":2076.885,"body":"something to multiple teams."},{"startTime":2076.915,"endTime":2079.875,"body":"So now you've got that"},{"startTime":2076.915,"endTime":2079.875,"body":"magnifier effect, right?"},{"startTime":2079.915,"endTime":2081.035,"body":"That's what you should be doing."},{"startTime":2081.305,"endTime":2081.815,"body":"Absolutely."},{"startTime":2081.845,"endTime":2084.575,"body":"That's a leadership role"},{"startTime":2081.845,"endTime":2084.575,"body":"all the way up and down."},{"startTime":2084.825,"endTime":2085.265,"body":"Absolutely."},{"startTime":2085.475,"endTime":2085.745,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":2085.835,"endTime":2087.785,"body":", well, I mean, this has been a fun podcast."},{"startTime":2087.785,"endTime":2089.845,"body":"hopefully, , we've answered"},{"startTime":2087.785,"endTime":2089.845,"body":"a bunch of your questions."},{"startTime":2089.845,"endTime":2092.785,"body":"We got into context, obviously"},{"startTime":2089.845,"endTime":2092.785,"body":"without naming you by name or"},{"startTime":2092.795,"endTime":2094.41,"body":"having you on the podcast, we are."},{"startTime":2094.82,"endTime":2098.23,"body":"100 percent happy to have you on the"},{"startTime":2094.82,"endTime":2098.23,"body":"podcast if you want Since we don't want"},{"startTime":2098.23,"endTime":2101.55,"body":"to call out your specific company or"},{"startTime":2098.23,"endTime":2101.55,"body":"whatever and be like, oh, everyone's"},{"startTime":2101.55,"endTime":2105.94,"body":"terrible But if you still have questions"},{"startTime":2101.55,"endTime":2105.94,"body":"feel free to, , hit us up individually"},{"startTime":2105.94,"endTime":2110.31,"body":"in private or , as a podcast questions"},{"startTime":2105.94,"endTime":2110.31,"body":"or angry tweets or whatever, however"},{"startTime":2110.31,"endTime":2111.6,"body":"you want to get questions to us."},{"startTime":2112.02,"endTime":2115.6,"body":"And, for those of you who are not,"},{"startTime":2112.02,"endTime":2115.6,"body":", subscribed yet, please subscribe"},{"startTime":2115.97,"endTime":2117.05,"body":"and,, be kind to one another."},{"startTime":2117.16,"endTime":2118.08,"body":"We'll see you next time."}]}