{"version":"1.0.0","segments":[{"startTime":1.48,"endTime":4.46,"body":"welcome to the Arguing Agile Podcast,"},{"startTime":1.48,"endTime":4.46,"body":"where Enterprise Business Agility"},{"startTime":4.5,"endTime":7.63,"body":"Coach Om Patel and Product Manager"},{"startTime":4.5,"endTime":7.63,"body":"Brian Orlando argue about product"},{"startTime":7.65,"endTime":10.899,"body":"management, leadership, and business"},{"startTime":7.65,"endTime":10.899,"body":"agility, so you don't have to."},{"startTime":11.877,"endTime":12.987,"body":"welcome back to Arguing Agile."},{"startTime":12.987,"endTime":16.167,"body":"We got a very fast, very quick"},{"startTime":12.987,"endTime":16.167,"body":"to the Point podcast today."},{"startTime":16.438,"endTime":20.528,"body":"I wanted om to listen to a clip"},{"startTime":16.438,"endTime":20.528,"body":"that I listened to very recently."},{"startTime":20.738,"endTime":23.979,"body":"It's from Claire be who's the Chief"},{"startTime":20.738,"endTime":23.979,"body":"Product Officer of LaunchDarkly at."},{"startTime":24.228,"endTime":29.208,"body":"The Lenny and friends summit from"},{"startTime":24.228,"endTime":29.208,"body":"October 24th 2024, whenever people"},{"startTime":29.208,"endTime":33.838,"body":"find this video, 2024 could be a"},{"startTime":29.208,"endTime":33.838,"body":"time capsule . Anyway I, I've I've"},{"startTime":33.838,"endTime":37.788,"body":"been noticing much like everyone"},{"startTime":33.838,"endTime":37.788,"body":"else has of all of these click baity,"},{"startTime":37.808,"endTime":39.308,"body":"everything is dead, everything is dead."},{"startTime":39.308,"endTime":40.278,"body":"Product management is dead."},{"startTime":40.318,"endTime":41.098,"body":"Agile is dead."},{"startTime":41.358,"endTime":42.298,"body":"Agility is dead."},{"startTime":42.548,"endTime":42.828,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":42.868,"endTime":43.768,"body":"Everything's dead."},{"startTime":43.768,"endTime":44.188,"body":"You're right."},{"startTime":44.468,"endTime":45.738,"body":"Doomsayers are out there."},{"startTime":45.768,"endTime":47.428,"body":"Everything is trying to be relevant again."},{"startTime":47.678,"endTime":50.908,"body":"So this would be interesting because I"},{"startTime":47.678,"endTime":50.908,"body":"have not actually watched this before."},{"startTime":51.008,"endTime":51.478,"body":"That's right."},{"startTime":51.478,"endTime":52.778,"body":"So I actually didn't watch it."},{"startTime":52.808,"endTime":56.268,"body":"I put it into our channel"},{"startTime":52.808,"endTime":56.268,"body":"and then I watched it."},{"startTime":56.518,"endTime":60.258,"body":"During the week, to see if it was actually"},{"startTime":56.518,"endTime":60.258,"body":"worth us reviewing and I do think, I think"},{"startTime":60.258,"endTime":63.908,"body":"it's worth us reviewing and I want to"},{"startTime":60.258,"endTime":63.908,"body":"get your take, so let's go through this."},{"startTime":63.938,"endTime":66.678,"body":"I apologize if the audio is a little"},{"startTime":63.938,"endTime":66.678,"body":"wonky on this episode,  I said,"},{"startTime":66.688,"endTime":68.018,"body":"it'll be a quick episode either way."},{"startTime":68.268,"endTime":69.768,"body":"So let's let's dig right into it."},{"startTime":69.778,"endTime":70.838,"body":"We're going to watch the whole thing."},{"startTime":71.158,"endTime":72.258,"body":"Good morning."},{"startTime":72.508,"endTime":73.848,"body":"I'm very excited to be."},{"startTime":74.098,"endTime":77.498,"body":"Karen, they thought, what should"},{"startTime":74.098,"endTime":77.498,"body":"we do bright and early at the"},{"startTime":77.498,"endTime":79.648,"body":"product leaders conference?"},{"startTime":79.698,"endTime":82.338,"body":"Just go ahead and mix"},{"startTime":79.698,"endTime":82.338,"body":"product management entirely."},{"startTime":82.338,"endTime":83.678,"body":"Let's get rid of it."},{"startTime":84.158,"endTime":87.488,"body":"We can all go enjoy a great"},{"startTime":84.158,"endTime":87.488,"body":"san francisco october morning."},{"startTime":87.858,"endTime":90.678,"body":"So I'm here to tell you, and I"},{"startTime":87.858,"endTime":90.678,"body":"actually believe this to be true."},{"startTime":90.678,"endTime":92.878,"body":"This is not a hot take"},{"startTime":90.678,"endTime":92.878,"body":"for the sake of hot takes."},{"startTime":93.128,"endTime":96.058,"body":"Product management is"},{"startTime":93.128,"endTime":96.058,"body":"dead or it will be soon."},{"startTime":96.058,"endTime":100.388,"body":"And so I'm here to talk about what"},{"startTime":96.058,"endTime":100.388,"body":"we're all going to do Instead, but"},{"startTime":100.388,"endTime":101.648,"body":"first what an amazing conference."},{"startTime":101.648,"endTime":101.828,"body":"Okay."},{"startTime":101.828,"endTime":102.538,"body":"Everybody smile."},{"startTime":102.538,"endTime":103.418,"body":"Cause you all never get this."},{"startTime":103.418,"endTime":104.178,"body":"Let's take a picture."},{"startTime":104.428,"endTime":105.328,"body":"I don't understand what's happening."},{"startTime":105.328,"endTime":106.648,"body":"Like she's taking a"},{"startTime":105.328,"endTime":106.648,"body":"picture with her glasses."},{"startTime":106.648,"endTime":108.158,"body":"That's freaking me out over here."},{"startTime":108.418,"endTime":108.738,"body":"That's what I'm saying."},{"startTime":108.944,"endTime":111.283,"body":"Product management is dead, Om."},{"startTime":111.553,"endTime":113.353,"body":"It's not a hot take, but"},{"startTime":111.553,"endTime":113.353,"body":"product management is dead"},{"startTime":113.363,"endTime":114.263,"body":"it's not a hot take."},{"startTime":114.313,"endTime":116.413,"body":"It's dead and she's not"},{"startTime":114.313,"endTime":116.413,"body":"the first to say it."},{"startTime":116.413,"endTime":117.703,"body":"She won't be the last to say it."},{"startTime":117.703,"endTime":119.133,"body":"So what are we doing instead?"},{"startTime":119.393,"endTime":122.903,"body":"So I feel like a lot of people in the"},{"startTime":119.393,"endTime":122.903,"body":"agile space, not just product management,"},{"startTime":122.903,"endTime":124.533,"body":"but also just generally, right?"},{"startTime":124.773,"endTime":128.063,"body":"Well, some people in the product space"},{"startTime":124.773,"endTime":128.063,"body":"are in the agile transformation space."},{"startTime":128.063,"endTime":129.623,"body":"Some of them are."},{"startTime":129.763,"endTime":130.273,"body":"I know."},{"startTime":130.483,"endTime":133.023,"body":"As if the product space"},{"startTime":130.483,"endTime":133.023,"body":"wasn't big enough for them."},{"startTime":133.373,"endTime":135.883,"body":"So they're saying things like XYZ is dead."},{"startTime":135.903,"endTime":137.013,"body":"What do we do instead?"},{"startTime":137.123,"endTime":139.313,"body":"I feel like for the most part,"},{"startTime":137.123,"endTime":139.313,"body":"these people are trying to"},{"startTime":139.373,"endTime":141.373,"body":"make themselves relevant again."},{"startTime":141.543,"endTime":145.963,"body":"Oh, I really thought you were going"},{"startTime":141.543,"endTime":145.963,"body":"to say buy my book or my product."},{"startTime":145.963,"endTime":146.663,"body":"That's what they say."},{"startTime":146.693,"endTime":151.593,"body":"They say so and so's XYZ is dead, buy my"},{"startTime":146.693,"endTime":151.593,"body":"product, buy my services, buy my training."},{"startTime":151.983,"endTime":152.243,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":152.643,"endTime":155.883,"body":"So again, to my point, they're"},{"startTime":152.643,"endTime":155.883,"body":"trying to become relevant again."},{"startTime":156.133,"endTime":157.163,"body":"They're trying to become an elephant."},{"startTime":157.163,"endTime":158.633,"body":"Make Agile relevant again."},{"startTime":158.843,"endTime":159.693,"body":"That's what this is."},{"startTime":159.693,"endTime":160.741,"body":"First reaction."},{"startTime":160.741,"endTime":162.513,"body":"We'll see what happens."},{"startTime":162.533,"endTime":163.293,"body":"Let's see what happens."},{"startTime":163.453,"endTime":167.2,"body":"Give it, give it, Give it your patience,"},{"startTime":163.453,"endTime":167.2,"body":"because I'm telling you I think"},{"startTime":167.2,"endTime":168.623,"body":"it'll surprise you where it's going."},{"startTime":168.633,"endTime":169.203,"body":"Okay, cool."},{"startTime":169.453,"endTime":170.463,"body":"Okay, we got the picture."},{"startTime":170.463,"endTime":172.563,"body":"We'll see if the smiles are still"},{"startTime":170.463,"endTime":172.563,"body":"there at the end of the talk."},{"startTime":172.813,"endTime":177.543,"body":"Alright, so I've been saying this a"},{"startTime":172.813,"endTime":177.543,"body":"lot, but AI is going to transform the"},{"startTime":177.543,"endTime":179.523,"body":"role of product design in engineering."},{"startTime":179.773,"endTime":181.463,"body":"Faster than we all expect."},{"startTime":181.493,"endTime":184.053,"body":"And whenever I say this, people"},{"startTime":181.493,"endTime":184.053,"body":"go, yeah, Claire, and I say,"},{"startTime":184.053,"endTime":186.353,"body":"no, no, no faster than that."},{"startTime":186.603,"endTime":190.803,"body":"And so I want you all to think about"},{"startTime":186.603,"endTime":190.803,"body":"the rate of change in technology"},{"startTime":190.803,"endTime":192.893,"body":"over the last 18 to 24 months."},{"startTime":193.348,"endTime":198.308,"body":"Things that candidly, after two decades of"},{"startTime":193.348,"endTime":198.308,"body":"being in a product role, I never thought"},{"startTime":198.308,"endTime":200.158,"body":"I would see in my lifetime has now become."},{"startTime":200.408,"endTime":200.728,"body":"All right."},{"startTime":200.728,"endTime":200.938,"body":"All right."},{"startTime":201.238,"endTime":202.638,"body":"I see you making facial expressions."},{"startTime":202.638,"endTime":203.648,"body":"We're going to, we're going to pause here."},{"startTime":203.878,"endTime":205.338,"body":"First of all, the two"},{"startTime":203.878,"endTime":205.338,"body":"things just happened there."},{"startTime":205.368,"endTime":208.158,"body":"AI everything, AI panic, AI hype,"},{"startTime":208.378,"endTime":212.338,"body":"If you've been in the space for 18,"},{"startTime":208.378,"endTime":212.338,"body":"20 years and you're thinking that just"},{"startTime":212.338,"endTime":216.188,"body":"in the last two, three years this is"},{"startTime":212.338,"endTime":216.188,"body":"happening, you've been in Timbuktu."},{"startTime":216.258,"endTime":216.928,"body":"I mean, come on."},{"startTime":217.178,"endTime":217.718,"body":"Seriously?"},{"startTime":218.088,"endTime":223.548,"body":"I mean, it's, it's It's, listen, the,"},{"startTime":218.088,"endTime":223.548,"body":"the, the publicity is rampant now."},{"startTime":223.548,"endTime":225.498,"body":"I I'll get, I'll grab that, right?"},{"startTime":225.528,"endTime":229.838,"body":"But there's always been that potential"},{"startTime":225.528,"endTime":229.838,"body":"that you could use automation."},{"startTime":229.838,"endTime":232.248,"body":"You could use these things to"},{"startTime":229.838,"endTime":232.248,"body":"enhance the way you're working."},{"startTime":232.358,"endTime":233.938,"body":"Om, and there are books"},{"startTime":232.358,"endTime":233.938,"body":"to be sold, all right?"},{"startTime":233.948,"endTime":236.578,"body":"There are, there are product"},{"startTime":233.948,"endTime":236.578,"body":"operating models and there are,"},{"startTime":236.618,"endTime":238.308,"body":"there are things to be purchased."},{"startTime":238.308,"endTime":242.463,"body":"There are ChatGPTs to be queried"},{"startTime":238.308,"endTime":242.463,"body":"and integrated with, okay,"},{"startTime":242.513,"endTime":243.893,"body":"those are still by themselves."},{"startTime":243.943,"endTime":248.203,"body":"I don't, I don't want to hear your"},{"startTime":243.943,"endTime":248.203,"body":"product, like a product and technology"},{"startTime":248.203,"endTime":251.633,"body":"is cyclical and goes up to the ups and"},{"startTime":248.203,"endTime":251.633,"body":"downs as well as the trends and the"},{"startTime":251.633,"endTime":253.003,"body":"buzzwords and all that kind of stuff."},{"startTime":253.353,"endTime":256.063,"body":"And what was here 18 months ago"},{"startTime":253.353,"endTime":256.063,"body":"will be gone 18 months from now."},{"startTime":256.063,"endTime":258.173,"body":"I don't want to hear all that by my book."},{"startTime":258.423,"endTime":259.903,"body":"Become kind of boring to me."},{"startTime":259.903,"endTime":263.163,"body":"I think the rate of chain"},{"startTime":259.903,"endTime":263.163,"body":"is very fast in our job."},{"startTime":263.663,"endTime":265.233,"body":"Is to not be surprised."},{"startTime":265.253,"endTime":269.883,"body":"And so when I tell my team about building"},{"startTime":265.253,"endTime":269.883,"body":"product strategy, I say I'm not interested"},{"startTime":270.283,"endTime":272.043,"body":"in building a great product for today."},{"startTime":272.513,"endTime":275.843,"body":"I'm interested in thinking about what"},{"startTime":272.513,"endTime":275.843,"body":"our customers are going to need from"},{"startTime":275.843,"endTime":280.283,"body":"us in 35 and 10 years and building"},{"startTime":275.843,"endTime":280.283,"body":"the product that's going to push"},{"startTime":280.283,"endTime":281.918,"body":"towards that future that we believe in."},{"startTime":282.168,"endTime":284.178,"body":"Well, that's basic product"},{"startTime":282.168,"endTime":284.178,"body":"management right there."},{"startTime":284.198,"endTime":286.188,"body":"Or you could say business"},{"startTime":284.198,"endTime":286.188,"body":"leadership, either or."},{"startTime":286.188,"endTime":288.088,"body":"But that, that seems pretty basic to me."},{"startTime":288.178,"endTime":289.258,"body":"I, I agree with that."},{"startTime":289.258,"endTime":291.398,"body":"I, I didn't think she was gonna"},{"startTime":289.258,"endTime":291.398,"body":"go there, but that's good."},{"startTime":291.548,"endTime":294.778,"body":"I mean, you should always"},{"startTime":291.548,"endTime":294.778,"body":"be looking at what's next."},{"startTime":294.918,"endTime":296.288,"body":"Where's the horizon, right?"},{"startTime":296.598,"endTime":297.838,"body":"And what's beyond the horizon."},{"startTime":297.838,"endTime":299.228,"body":"You should always be thinking that, so."},{"startTime":299.338,"endTime":300.758,"body":"It also confirms my thinking."},{"startTime":300.758,"endTime":304.478,"body":"Whenever I watch these, like product"},{"startTime":300.758,"endTime":304.478,"body":"influencer type of videos, Say the most"},{"startTime":304.478,"endTime":308.858,"body":"mundane stuff, but say it say it in a"},{"startTime":304.478,"endTime":308.858,"body":"passionate way so that people, we should"},{"startTime":308.858,"endTime":310.698,"body":"be building products for the future."},{"startTime":310.948,"endTime":314.938,"body":"This is to me, this is in the same"},{"startTime":310.948,"endTime":314.938,"body":"category as sports announcers on TV."},{"startTime":315.178,"endTime":317.778,"body":"When you watch any sport,"},{"startTime":315.178,"endTime":317.778,"body":"they'll say the obvious."},{"startTime":317.778,"endTime":318.728,"body":"The play just happened."},{"startTime":319.123,"endTime":320.483,"body":"You, you watched it, right?"},{"startTime":320.483,"endTime":324.253,"body":"I think I said, well, that's what"},{"startTime":320.483,"endTime":324.253,"body":"happens when you drop the ball."},{"startTime":324.283,"endTime":325.733,"body":"We just saw that."},{"startTime":325.823,"endTime":326.713,"body":"We don't need that."},{"startTime":326.723,"endTime":329.243,"body":"Sometimes I just mute that"},{"startTime":326.723,"endTime":329.243,"body":"and just listen to the music."},{"startTime":329.633,"endTime":331.093,"body":"This is, I don't know"},{"startTime":329.633,"endTime":331.093,"body":"what you're talking about."},{"startTime":331.093,"endTime":333.323,"body":"This is, I watch golf highlights"},{"startTime":331.093,"endTime":333.323,"body":"and I'm not sure if the ball's"},{"startTime":333.323,"endTime":334.013,"body":"going to go in the hole."},{"startTime":334.023,"endTime":336.393,"body":"That's you know, I've got to know if"},{"startTime":334.023,"endTime":336.393,"body":"the ball's going to go in that hole."},{"startTime":336.393,"endTime":339.513,"body":"That's when the commentator says, that's"},{"startTime":336.393,"endTime":339.513,"body":"what happens when you don't aim it right."},{"startTime":339.573,"endTime":340.903,"body":"It goes in the water."},{"startTime":340.923,"endTime":341.703,"body":"It goes in the bunker."},{"startTime":341.758,"endTime":345.268,"body":"We build products for the future, Om."},{"startTime":345.448,"endTime":346.168,"body":"That's a good start."},{"startTime":346.298,"endTime":346.838,"body":"Let's pick it up."},{"startTime":347.088,"endTime":350.268,"body":"And I really believe the same"},{"startTime":347.088,"endTime":350.268,"body":"goes for building product teams."},{"startTime":350.288,"endTime":354.758,"body":"I want to imagine the product team of"},{"startTime":350.288,"endTime":354.758,"body":"18 months from now, 3 years from now,"},{"startTime":354.788,"endTime":356.338,"body":"5 years from now, 10 years from now."},{"startTime":356.668,"endTime":358.998,"body":"I want to think about how that"},{"startTime":356.668,"endTime":358.998,"body":"team is really going to operate."},{"startTime":359.008,"endTime":361.428,"body":"I want to place some bets on"},{"startTime":359.008,"endTime":361.428,"body":"what I think is going to change."},{"startTime":361.678,"endTime":363.048,"body":"And I want to build that team."},{"startTime":363.298,"endTime":366.018,"body":"But before I go there, I'm just going"},{"startTime":363.298,"endTime":366.018,"body":"to tell a little story about Vayner."},{"startTime":366.268,"endTime":369.078,"body":"Oh, the old Brian Chesky,"},{"startTime":366.268,"endTime":369.078,"body":"before I do that, I'm going"},{"startTime":369.078,"endTime":370.188,"body":"to tell you a little story."},{"startTime":370.508,"endTime":372.878,"body":"I went on a hike, oh"},{"startTime":370.508,"endTime":372.878,"body":"man, I got stuffed up."},{"startTime":373.208,"endTime":377.108,"body":"I, I like where she's going in terms"},{"startTime":373.208,"endTime":377.108,"body":"of thinking about what kind of teams"},{"startTime":377.108,"endTime":379.168,"body":"are you building for the future, right?"},{"startTime":379.468,"endTime":382.068,"body":"But I don't think you can look"},{"startTime":379.468,"endTime":382.068,"body":"that far ahead with that, because"},{"startTime":382.318,"endTime":385.848,"body":"change is going to make you think"},{"startTime":382.318,"endTime":385.848,"body":"again and again and again, right?"},{"startTime":385.848,"endTime":387.748,"body":"So five, ten years, it's too long."},{"startTime":388.173,"endTime":389.543,"body":"Well, my initial reaction."},{"startTime":389.733,"endTime":393.273,"body":"I believe I'm wrong, but my"},{"startTime":389.733,"endTime":393.273,"body":"initial reaction is she's not"},{"startTime":393.273,"endTime":394.383,"body":"gonna mention teams again."},{"startTime":394.383,"endTime":397.833,"body":"It's gonna be you by my book, but I, I,"},{"startTime":394.383,"endTime":397.833,"body":"I'm pretty sure I'm wrong about that."},{"startTime":397.833,"endTime":401.223,"body":"Let's, let's, let's venture on, let's"},{"startTime":397.833,"endTime":401.223,"body":"go and hear her little story Sure."},{"startTime":401.223,"endTime":402.033,"body":"About going on a hike."},{"startTime":402.283,"endTime":407.163,"body":"Baby Claire, CPO many, many moons"},{"startTime":402.283,"endTime":407.163,"body":"ago, and I know you all have maybe"},{"startTime":407.163,"endTime":411.034,"body":"started new product leadership jobs"},{"startTime":407.163,"endTime":411.034,"body":"and you've got asked this question, so."},{"startTime":411.284,"endTime":411.864,"body":"You know, you're here."},{"startTime":411.864,"endTime":412.634,"body":"You have some experience."},{"startTime":412.634,"endTime":412.784,"body":"What?"},{"startTime":413.034,"endTime":414.484,"body":"What's our product strategy?"},{"startTime":414.504,"endTime":416.454,"body":"Anybody been asked that question before?"},{"startTime":416.704,"endTime":416.974,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":416.974,"endTime":417.514,"body":"Okay, great."},{"startTime":417.514,"endTime":418.224,"body":"One person."},{"startTime":418.234,"endTime":418.594,"body":"Great."},{"startTime":418.604,"endTime":420.084,"body":"This is a great, great conference."},{"startTime":420.534,"endTime":424.204,"body":"And I remember doing this exercise of"},{"startTime":420.534,"endTime":424.204,"body":"what's our great product strategy, and I"},{"startTime":424.204,"endTime":427.084,"body":"went through this exercise where I said,"},{"startTime":424.204,"endTime":427.084,"body":"Okay, first, I'm gonna talk to customers."},{"startTime":427.084,"endTime":428.354,"body":"I'm gonna talk to a bunch of them."},{"startTime":428.354,"endTime":431.624,"body":"I'm gonna take a bunch of notes,"},{"startTime":428.354,"endTime":431.624,"body":"and then I'm gonna talk to the team."},{"startTime":431.954,"endTime":436.224,"body":"I'm gonna talk to sales, which is money"},{"startTime":431.954,"endTime":436.224,"body":"mouth cowboy, which might also be sales."},{"startTime":436.564,"endTime":440.094,"body":"We got CFO in the glasses and engineering"},{"startTime":436.564,"endTime":440.094,"body":"who's too cool to even look at you."},{"startTime":440.274,"endTime":442.354,"body":"We're going to talk to the team,"},{"startTime":440.274,"endTime":442.354,"body":"we're going to say what do you think?"},{"startTime":442.514,"endTime":443.584,"body":"What have you seen?"},{"startTime":444.044,"endTime":446.354,"body":"And then I'm going to think really"},{"startTime":444.044,"endTime":446.354,"body":"hard, like I'm going to take all that"},{"startTime":446.354,"endTime":449.464,"body":"information out of my brain, I'm going"},{"startTime":446.354,"endTime":449.464,"body":"to think so hard, and I'm going to type."},{"startTime":449.944,"endTime":453.714,"body":"And I'm going to put it into this"},{"startTime":449.944,"endTime":453.714,"body":"doc that says, my amazing strategy,"},{"startTime":453.714,"endTime":454.774,"body":"of course it's going to be in Coda."},{"startTime":455.014,"endTime":457.984,"body":"So I'm going to do this amazing strategy,"},{"startTime":455.014,"endTime":457.984,"body":"and then I'm going to take it back to"},{"startTime":457.984,"endTime":460.754,"body":"the team, but they're now annoyed because"},{"startTime":457.984,"endTime":460.754,"body":"they don't like what I came up with."},{"startTime":461.149,"endTime":463.439,"body":"And I'm going to get more"},{"startTime":461.149,"endTime":463.439,"body":"feedback from this team."},{"startTime":463.469,"endTime":467.869,"body":"And then I'm going to think really hard"},{"startTime":463.469,"endTime":467.869,"body":"again, I'll use my brain, everything I"},{"startTime":467.869,"endTime":471.669,"body":"know about the market, all my strategic"},{"startTime":467.869,"endTime":471.669,"body":"books that I've ever read in my life."},{"startTime":471.719,"endTime":473.849,"body":"I'm going to think back to play bigger."},{"startTime":473.849,"endTime":477.229,"body":"And then I'm going to do my"},{"startTime":473.849,"endTime":477.229,"body":"amazing strategy V1, and then"},{"startTime":477.249,"endTime":478.299,"body":"I'm going to give it to the team."},{"startTime":478.299,"endTime":481.089,"body":"And the team's going to"},{"startTime":478.299,"endTime":481.089,"body":"give me 8, 000 comments."},{"startTime":481.339,"endTime":484.479,"body":"And then the the drill, the"},{"startTime":481.339,"endTime":484.479,"body":"brain goes back into play."},{"startTime":484.814,"endTime":489.484,"body":"And then I have my really amazing"},{"startTime":484.814,"endTime":489.484,"body":"strategy, final, final, this one with"},{"startTime":489.484,"endTime":491.134,"body":"a link to all the drafts at the top."},{"startTime":491.434,"endTime":495.454,"body":"Boy, this is the podcast, or I guess"},{"startTime":491.434,"endTime":495.454,"body":"day of, looking at our other podcasts"},{"startTime":495.704,"endTime":496.554,"body":"how do you spell PRD?"},{"startTime":496.654,"endTime":499.104,"body":"PRD arguing."},{"startTime":499.354,"endTime":500.514,"body":"Sorry, editing Brian."},{"startTime":500.764,"endTime":504.234,"body":"So arguing Agile number 123 PRDs."},{"startTime":504.454,"endTime":509.444,"body":"And , I remember the, the core back and"},{"startTime":504.454,"endTime":509.444,"body":"forth of Arguing Agile 123 was me saying"},{"startTime":509.444,"endTime":513.614,"body":"like, I don't want to write a big document"},{"startTime":509.444,"endTime":513.614,"body":"and go off on a corner and keep revising"},{"startTime":513.614,"endTime":516.704,"body":"it and have like, as things go on, I've"},{"startTime":513.614,"endTime":516.704,"body":"got to keep adding to it or whatever."},{"startTime":516.704,"endTime":519.984,"body":"And you were like, no, no, no, it"},{"startTime":516.704,"endTime":519.984,"body":"should be either, either it's a living"},{"startTime":519.984,"endTime":521.564,"body":"document or it just gets you started."},{"startTime":521.564,"endTime":524.449,"body":"But it's not like, You're going"},{"startTime":521.564,"endTime":524.449,"body":"back to it and you're treating"},{"startTime":524.449,"endTime":527.039,"body":"it like documentation or whatever"},{"startTime":524.449,"endTime":527.039,"body":"like that's not the point, right?"},{"startTime":527.069,"endTime":529.619,"body":"The point is it's a vision it gets"},{"startTime":527.069,"endTime":529.619,"body":"us all on the same page It kicks us"},{"startTime":529.619,"endTime":532.729,"body":"off and then once we're off we're"},{"startTime":529.619,"endTime":532.729,"body":"off, you know We're in the functional"},{"startTime":532.729,"endTime":536.159,"body":"system it was a good conversation"},{"startTime":532.729,"endTime":536.159,"body":"and in in the prd discussions, I very"},{"startTime":536.159,"endTime":541.159,"body":"forgot the number 121 3 It's in the"},{"startTime":536.159,"endTime":541.159,"body":"20s Maybe it's still on my screen."},{"startTime":541.159,"endTime":542.409,"body":"Hang on 1 23."},{"startTime":542.409,"endTime":543.639,"body":"1, 2, 3, 1, 2, 3."},{"startTime":543.729,"endTime":545.559,"body":"Ah, it's as basic as 1, 2, 3."},{"startTime":545.739,"endTime":546.304,"body":"Easy, easy."},{"startTime":546.559,"endTime":550.369,"body":"Anyway, so, so my, my frustration"},{"startTime":546.559,"endTime":550.369,"body":"in arguing Agile 1 23 was"},{"startTime":550.369,"endTime":551.779,"body":"I don't wanna write a PRD."},{"startTime":551.779,"endTime":552.859,"body":"I think they're silly."},{"startTime":553.069,"endTime":554.179,"body":"I think they're useless."},{"startTime":554.239,"endTime":558.049,"body":"Like it's, this is like the, the PMs"},{"startTime":554.239,"endTime":558.049,"body":"that write a big document and then give"},{"startTime":558.049,"endTime":561.829,"body":"it to their tech lead and say, go build"},{"startTime":558.049,"endTime":561.829,"body":"this and then go and get lunch all day."},{"startTime":561.829,"endTime":563.859,"body":"That's not what I do as a PM."},{"startTime":564.129,"endTime":565.729,"body":"I've never had the luxury of doing that."},{"startTime":565.839,"endTime":566.809,"body":"And you should not be doing it."},{"startTime":566.809,"endTime":568.749,"body":"If you're doing that, you're"},{"startTime":566.809,"endTime":568.749,"body":"not doing your job right."},{"startTime":568.769,"endTime":570.819,"body":"Well, I feel there's a lot of"},{"startTime":568.769,"endTime":570.819,"body":"people she's talking to you right"},{"startTime":570.819,"endTime":572.089,"body":"now that that is their world."},{"startTime":572.159,"endTime":574.349,"body":"They don't, they're not"},{"startTime":572.159,"endTime":574.349,"body":"in the technical details."},{"startTime":574.699,"endTime":576.829,"body":"They got a tech lead that"},{"startTime":574.699,"endTime":576.829,"body":"kind of keeps them on track."},{"startTime":576.829,"endTime":579.139,"body":"And I was going to say changes"},{"startTime":576.829,"endTime":579.139,"body":"their diaper when they need"},{"startTime":579.159,"endTime":581.359,"body":"feeds them when they need feeding"},{"startTime":579.159,"endTime":581.359,"body":"and stuff like that, like that."},{"startTime":581.669,"endTime":584.549,"body":"It's a little patronizing that kind of"},{"startTime":581.669,"endTime":584.549,"body":"workflow that she's describing right now."},{"startTime":584.559,"endTime":586.449,"body":"I fully agree with that assessment."},{"startTime":586.459,"endTime":587.539,"body":"My feeling was the same."},{"startTime":587.539,"endTime":590.109,"body":"I think those little silhouettes"},{"startTime":587.539,"endTime":590.109,"body":"you see at the bottom, right?"},{"startTime":590.359,"endTime":592.709,"body":"There are going to be some people"},{"startTime":590.359,"endTime":592.709,"body":"there that can relate to this"},{"startTime":592.709,"endTime":594.609,"body":"directly and say, This is what I do."},{"startTime":594.629,"endTime":595.449,"body":"This is my job."},{"startTime":595.899,"endTime":600.319,"body":"And it's so not I mean, now, if you"},{"startTime":595.899,"endTime":600.319,"body":"want to strip out any segment of"},{"startTime":600.319,"endTime":603.439,"body":"product out of this and call it a"},{"startTime":600.319,"endTime":603.439,"body":"business analyst, You got me right."},{"startTime":603.469,"endTime":604.869,"body":"Yeah, you're right this is a tough job."},{"startTime":605.169,"endTime":606.959,"body":"Someone's got to do it, but"},{"startTime":605.169,"endTime":606.959,"body":"that's not what she's good job."},{"startTime":607.139,"endTime":607.789,"body":"No, it's not."},{"startTime":608.039,"endTime":609.269,"body":"What's our product strategy."},{"startTime":609.449,"endTime":612.439,"body":"What's our, yeah, what's our, it"},{"startTime":609.449,"endTime":612.439,"body":"looks like our, what's our business"},{"startTime":612.439,"endTime":614.619,"body":"analysis day to day look like?"},{"startTime":614.669,"endTime":617.349,"body":"Cause that, that looks like"},{"startTime":614.669,"endTime":617.349,"body":"a BA chasing people around."},{"startTime":617.749,"endTime":617.959,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":618.409,"endTime":618.689,"body":"All right."},{"startTime":618.689,"endTime":620.279,"body":"Well, trust me, it does get better."},{"startTime":620.279,"endTime":621.229,"body":"There's a reason we're watching this."},{"startTime":621.349,"endTime":624.759,"body":"So this, I legitimately"},{"startTime":621.349,"endTime":624.759,"body":"remember doing this."},{"startTime":624.789,"endTime":628.569,"body":"It output this like 10 page document"},{"startTime":624.789,"endTime":628.569,"body":"that I think was pretty good."},{"startTime":628.819,"endTime":631.249,"body":"It took me weeks and weeks and"},{"startTime":628.819,"endTime":631.249,"body":"weeks, so many conference rooms"},{"startTime":631.249,"endTime":632.509,"body":"when we did that sort of thing."},{"startTime":632.759,"endTime":635.569,"body":"And, that was how I"},{"startTime":632.759,"endTime":635.569,"body":"built a product strategy."},{"startTime":635.789,"endTime":638.809,"body":"The last time I built a product"},{"startTime":635.789,"endTime":638.809,"body":"strategy, this is what it looked like."},{"startTime":638.879,"endTime":640.509,"body":"I dropped off my kids at school."},{"startTime":640.739,"endTime":643.069,"body":"I had done the customer"},{"startTime":640.739,"endTime":643.069,"body":"calls and talking to people."},{"startTime":643.409,"endTime":646.619,"body":"I put chat, chat GPT voice on"},{"startTime":643.409,"endTime":646.619,"body":"my phone and I just prattled."},{"startTime":646.639,"endTime":648.619,"body":"I just did this, blah,"},{"startTime":646.639,"endTime":648.619,"body":"blah, blah, blah, blah."},{"startTime":648.619,"endTime":651.929,"body":"And I asked, hey, what's our product"},{"startTime":648.619,"endTime":651.929,"body":"strategy after all my prattling?"},{"startTime":652.269,"endTime":653.059,"body":"And guess what?"},{"startTime":653.069,"endTime":657.149,"body":"I got the same ten page paper On"},{"startTime":653.069,"endTime":657.149,"body":"what our product strategy was."},{"startTime":657.149,"endTime":659.919,"body":"I of course sat down on my laptop,"},{"startTime":657.149,"endTime":659.919,"body":"made it a little better, but I would"},{"startTime":659.919,"endTime":661.999,"body":"say like for like, it was pretty good."},{"startTime":662.329,"endTime":666.029,"body":"And that is the difference"},{"startTime":662.329,"endTime":666.029,"body":"in how product can operate."},{"startTime":666.029,"endTime":668.689,"body":"I think it's a perfect metaphor"},{"startTime":666.029,"endTime":668.689,"body":"for how product is changing."},{"startTime":668.939,"endTime":671.439,"body":"Is it a perfect metaphor"},{"startTime":668.939,"endTime":671.439,"body":"for how product is changing?"},{"startTime":671.509,"endTime":672.199,"body":"Oh, boy."},{"startTime":672.199,"endTime":672.649,"body":"Oh, boy."},{"startTime":672.729,"endTime":674.729,"body":"I'm struggling to this is that."},{"startTime":674.729,"endTime":677.159,"body":"But this, this is the exact"},{"startTime":674.729,"endTime":677.159,"body":"case for AI, though, is like the"},{"startTime":677.249,"endTime":678.369,"body":"automate the low hanging fruit."},{"startTime":678.389,"endTime":679.359,"body":"Sure sure."},{"startTime":679.679,"endTime":680.799,"body":"So this is fine."},{"startTime":680.819,"endTime":684.499,"body":"It I think the quality of her output"},{"startTime":680.819,"endTime":684.499,"body":"was directly proportional quality"},{"startTime":684.499,"endTime":685.809,"body":"of her input, like anything else."},{"startTime":686.059,"endTime":688.279,"body":"So again, I want to get to the"},{"startTime":686.059,"endTime":688.279,"body":"core of what she's saying, but"},{"startTime":688.299,"endTime":689.889,"body":"I'm, I'm very happy where she's at."},{"startTime":689.909,"endTime":692.189,"body":"Like, I'm glad she had that revelation"},{"startTime":689.909,"endTime":692.189,"body":"of like, Hey, this stuff that"},{"startTime":692.189,"endTime":694.599,"body":"I was doing was kind of useless"},{"startTime":692.189,"endTime":694.599,"body":"and I'm going to stop doing that."},{"startTime":694.669,"endTime":697.559,"body":"I feel, I feel better for all of those"},{"startTime":694.669,"endTime":697.559,"body":"people that were involved in those"},{"startTime":697.559,"endTime":701.009,"body":"conversations previously, because now it"},{"startTime":697.559,"endTime":701.009,"body":"frees them up to do what they need to do."},{"startTime":701.179,"endTime":701.769,"body":"All right, let's go."},{"startTime":702.019,"endTime":705.439,"body":"So before it took weeks to"},{"startTime":702.019,"endTime":705.439,"body":"write and revise and sharpen"},{"startTime":705.439,"endTime":706.809,"body":"a long product strategy."},{"startTime":707.119,"endTime":710.639,"body":"Now I'm hanging out in my minivan,"},{"startTime":707.119,"endTime":710.639,"body":"talking to chat GPT on my way to work."},{"startTime":711.034,"endTime":715.384,"body":"You know, before you would take these"},{"startTime":711.034,"endTime":715.384,"body":"days to write feedback and requirements"},{"startTime":715.384,"endTime":716.714,"body":"in a doc and da, da, da, da, da."},{"startTime":716.714,"endTime":719.894,"body":"And now you're taking 15 minutes"},{"startTime":716.714,"endTime":719.894,"body":"to scaffold out something that's"},{"startTime":719.904,"endTime":722.824,"body":"80 percent good and then 45 minutes"},{"startTime":719.904,"endTime":722.824,"body":"to sharpen and then ship it."},{"startTime":723.074,"endTime":725.234,"body":"You would draw wireframes on paper."},{"startTime":725.254,"endTime":729.774,"body":"I used to use paper, like draw wireframes"},{"startTime":725.254,"endTime":729.774,"body":"on paper or balsamiq if you're being cute"},{"startTime":730.054,"endTime":732.384,"body":"and then wait for design to work on UX."},{"startTime":732.414,"endTime":735.024,"body":"See, this is the audience"},{"startTime":732.414,"endTime":735.024,"body":"for a balsamiq joke."},{"startTime":735.274,"endTime":738.674,"body":"And now you can share these fully"},{"startTime":735.274,"endTime":738.674,"body":"functional prototypes with your teams"},{"startTime":738.674,"endTime":740.594,"body":"and customers literally in minutes."},{"startTime":740.844,"endTime":743.294,"body":"You can manually pour"},{"startTime":740.844,"endTime":743.294,"body":"through customer feedback."},{"startTime":743.324,"endTime":746.544,"body":"Everybody has the spreadsheet"},{"startTime":743.324,"endTime":746.544,"body":"for ideas and priorities."},{"startTime":746.554,"endTime":749.954,"body":"Now you can automate those"},{"startTime":746.554,"endTime":749.954,"body":"insights With no code tools."},{"startTime":750.204,"endTime":751.584,"body":"And then finally there's slides."},{"startTime":751.584,"endTime":752.534,"body":"There's so many slides."},{"startTime":752.534,"endTime":754.784,"body":"We're making slides all the time,"},{"startTime":752.534,"endTime":754.784,"body":"and now we're making slides,"},{"startTime":754.784,"endTime":757.254,"body":"but they're generated by AI."},{"startTime":757.254,"endTime":760.024,"body":"So there's a good list"},{"startTime":757.254,"endTime":760.024,"body":"of like before and now."},{"startTime":760.024,"endTime":763.784,"body":"So she was writing documents, she"},{"startTime":760.024,"endTime":763.784,"body":"was sketching things and sending"},{"startTime":763.784,"endTime":764.724,"body":"it to other people to implement."},{"startTime":764.974,"endTime":770.574,"body":"She was pouring through customer feedback"},{"startTime":764.974,"endTime":770.574,"body":"and in, in, in Excel format and whatnot,"},{"startTime":770.924,"endTime":772.754,"body":"I'm assuming people were giving it to her."},{"startTime":772.754,"endTime":773.654,"body":"I don't really know."},{"startTime":774.004,"endTime":775.354,"body":"And she was making PowerPoints."},{"startTime":775.394,"endTime":778.364,"body":"So again, we need to get all this"},{"startTime":775.394,"endTime":778.364,"body":"on the table of what she was doing."},{"startTime":778.364,"endTime":778.624,"body":"Okay."},{"startTime":778.624,"endTime":780.814,"body":"Because again, I don't do any of this."},{"startTime":781.074,"endTime":782.154,"body":"I don't do that."},{"startTime":782.464,"endTime":783.374,"body":"I don't do PowerPoints."},{"startTime":783.444,"endTime":784.004,"body":"I do."},{"startTime":784.064,"endTime":786.964,"body":"I take a first pass with"},{"startTime":784.064,"endTime":786.964,"body":"clickable wireframes."},{"startTime":786.964,"endTime":788.014,"body":"If I think it's important enough."},{"startTime":788.034,"endTime":788.924,"body":"Otherwise I'll just do."},{"startTime":789.324,"endTime":790.314,"body":"Static wireframes."},{"startTime":790.344,"endTime":792.244,"body":"But if it's important enough,"},{"startTime":790.344,"endTime":792.244,"body":"I will get in Figma and I will"},{"startTime":792.264,"endTime":794.184,"body":"make actual clickable wireframes."},{"startTime":794.184,"endTime":798.014,"body":"Like if I'm cooking up something out"},{"startTime":794.184,"endTime":798.014,"body":"of, out of the blue, like an idea that"},{"startTime":798.034,"endTime":800.904,"body":"I have based on talking to a customer"},{"startTime":798.034,"endTime":800.904,"body":"or that somebody internally said"},{"startTime":800.904,"endTime":802.204,"body":"they talked to a customer and right."},{"startTime":802.204,"endTime":802.874,"body":"They give them feedback."},{"startTime":803.164,"endTime":805.844,"body":"I will cook that concept up"},{"startTime":803.164,"endTime":805.844,"body":"and then I'll shop it around."},{"startTime":806.094,"endTime":807.314,"body":"And if it goes nowhere, it goes nowhere."},{"startTime":807.664,"endTime":812.014,"body":"But if we all like it and everyone"},{"startTime":807.664,"endTime":812.014,"body":"agrees, only then I will engage my"},{"startTime":812.014,"endTime":816.264,"body":"UIUX person to say like I took a"},{"startTime":812.014,"endTime":816.264,"body":"first pass at clickable wireframes."},{"startTime":816.634,"endTime":817.424,"body":"They'll take my stuff."},{"startTime":817.444,"endTime":821.434,"body":"They'll yell at me for not making"},{"startTime":817.444,"endTime":821.434,"body":"it object oriented and not naming"},{"startTime":821.434,"endTime":823.234,"body":"it properly and I'll say yeah."},{"startTime":823.244,"endTime":824.614,"body":"Yeah, whatever get out of my office."},{"startTime":824.804,"endTime":826.504,"body":"But even in her now category."},{"startTime":826.534,"endTime":831.264,"body":"I'm already Further past that"},{"startTime":826.534,"endTime":831.264,"body":"with what I do, but you but it's"},{"startTime":831.334,"endTime":833.994,"body":"but it's it's good because she I"},{"startTime":831.334,"endTime":833.994,"body":"think she's heading in the right"},{"startTime":833.994,"endTime":835.729,"body":"direction Absolutely agree with that."},{"startTime":835.729,"endTime":839.109,"body":"So she's just looking at"},{"startTime":835.729,"endTime":839.109,"body":"those two columns, right?"},{"startTime":839.129,"endTime":843.109,"body":"She's saving tons of time, but she's still"},{"startTime":839.129,"endTime":843.109,"body":"ending up with PowerPoint presentations."},{"startTime":843.359,"endTime":845.239,"body":"So, yeah, I mean, it's,"},{"startTime":843.359,"endTime":845.239,"body":"it's an improvement."},{"startTime":845.349,"endTime":846.809,"body":"It's not the end point, right?"},{"startTime":847.039,"endTime":848.649,"body":"I'm hoping she's going to go further now."},{"startTime":848.699,"endTime":849.369,"body":"I'll get you there."},{"startTime":849.729,"endTime":853.529,"body":"So this is before and now"},{"startTime":849.729,"endTime":853.529,"body":"this isn't even the future."},{"startTime":853.549,"endTime":858.649,"body":"And I think now product work"},{"startTime":853.549,"endTime":858.649,"body":"honestly takes less time, less"},{"startTime":858.659,"endTime":861.229,"body":"thought and maybe less PMs."},{"startTime":861.249,"endTime":864.619,"body":"So, what does that mean?"},{"startTime":864.649,"endTime":867.549,"body":"I think it means it could become more fun."},{"startTime":867.979,"endTime":871.609,"body":"But in order for it to become more fun,"},{"startTime":867.979,"endTime":871.609,"body":"we have to do what all of us are really"},{"startTime":871.609,"endTime":874.229,"body":"fabulous at, which is straight up pivot."},{"startTime":874.259,"endTime":875.909,"body":"So we're going to figure"},{"startTime":874.259,"endTime":875.909,"body":"out something else."},{"startTime":875.909,"endTime":877.559,"body":"We're going to kill product"},{"startTime":875.909,"endTime":877.559,"body":"management, but we're going to"},{"startTime":877.559,"endTime":879.669,"body":"replace it with something else."},{"startTime":879.919,"endTime":883.399,"body":"And so I'm going to start with a"},{"startTime":879.919,"endTime":883.399,"body":"couple pieces of advice on how to get"},{"startTime":883.399,"endTime":888.869,"body":"there, and the first one is you need to"},{"startTime":883.399,"endTime":888.869,"body":"become an AI powered product team now."},{"startTime":888.919,"endTime":892.159,"body":"And I think there are three"},{"startTime":888.919,"endTime":892.159,"body":"requirements of an AI powered PM."},{"startTime":892.409,"endTime":894.969,"body":"They automate themselves"},{"startTime":892.409,"endTime":894.969,"body":"to speed up delivery."},{"startTime":895.389,"endTime":899.239,"body":"They add new skills and they"},{"startTime":895.389,"endTime":899.239,"body":"do more, and then they multiply"},{"startTime":899.239,"endTime":901.469,"body":"their impact by teaching the team."},{"startTime":901.469,"endTime":905.909,"body":"I know she's going to elaborate on"},{"startTime":901.469,"endTime":905.909,"body":"those, but before she does that, I"},{"startTime":905.909,"endTime":908.259,"body":"want to cut you in front of her to"},{"startTime":905.909,"endTime":908.259,"body":"see if any of those stick out to you."},{"startTime":908.509,"endTime":909.279,"body":"So three requirements."},{"startTime":909.319,"endTime":911.279,"body":"So first of all, the"},{"startTime":909.319,"endTime":911.279,"body":"fact that you should be."},{"startTime":911.529,"endTime":915.619,"body":"Driving toward becoming proficient"},{"startTime":911.529,"endTime":915.619,"body":"with AI isn't just product."},{"startTime":915.659,"endTime":916.169,"body":"Anybody."},{"startTime":916.409,"endTime":916.979,"body":"Yeah right."},{"startTime":917.239,"endTime":917.949,"body":"That's a good thing."},{"startTime":918.019,"endTime":918.179,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":918.209,"endTime":920.859,"body":"I think that's, I mean,"},{"startTime":918.209,"endTime":920.859,"body":"it's very general advice."},{"startTime":920.859,"endTime":923.359,"body":"It's like, Hey, take this AI"},{"startTime":920.859,"endTime":923.359,"body":"stuff, figure out where to"},{"startTime":923.359,"endTime":924.119,"body":"integrate it into your workflow."},{"startTime":924.129,"endTime":924.729,"body":"Add new skills."},{"startTime":924.769,"endTime":925.559,"body":"Again, it applies it."},{"startTime":925.569,"endTime":926.489,"body":"And add new skills yeah."},{"startTime":926.579,"endTime":928.559,"body":"Multiply your impact"},{"startTime":926.579,"endTime":928.559,"body":"by teaching your teams."},{"startTime":928.689,"endTime":930.759,"body":"You could say that about"},{"startTime":928.689,"endTime":930.759,"body":"just about anything, really."},{"startTime":930.769,"endTime":933.089,"body":"If you're working in a team"},{"startTime":930.769,"endTime":933.089,"body":"bring your peers up to speed."},{"startTime":933.089,"endTime":933.889,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":933.889,"endTime":935.899,"body":"You learn this new skill and"},{"startTime":933.889,"endTime":935.899,"body":"you bring it back to your team"},{"startTime":935.899,"endTime":936.689,"body":"and you teach them new skills."},{"startTime":936.799,"endTime":940.699,"body":"Now that's not quite the way that"},{"startTime":936.799,"endTime":940.699,"body":"she's gonna wrap this discussion."},{"startTime":940.879,"endTime":941.139,"body":"Okay."},{"startTime":941.159,"endTime":944.289,"body":"You and I, who were like, we're"},{"startTime":941.159,"endTime":944.289,"body":"a bit more team focused than,"},{"startTime":944.349,"endTime":946.219,"body":"than what she's portraying here."},{"startTime":946.654,"endTime":949.434,"body":"Yeah, I'm going to learn a new skill, I'm"},{"startTime":946.654,"endTime":949.434,"body":"going to bring them back to my team and"},{"startTime":949.434,"endTime":953.394,"body":"then I'm going to spend time teaching them"},{"startTime":949.434,"endTime":953.394,"body":"the skill, just like if they were doing"},{"startTime":953.394,"endTime":957.244,"body":"something they could spend time do a demo"},{"startTime":953.394,"endTime":957.244,"body":"and they can explain things and I can"},{"startTime":957.254,"endTime":960.464,"body":"ask questions or if I if it's not enough"},{"startTime":957.254,"endTime":960.464,"body":"for me, maybe I'll schedule a one on one"},{"startTime":960.464,"endTime":963.454,"body":"or a deep dive or something like that"},{"startTime":960.464,"endTime":963.454,"body":"and I'll learn the thing with the team."},{"startTime":963.604,"endTime":968.634,"body":"But again, the handoff basically that,"},{"startTime":963.604,"endTime":968.634,"body":"that did, she's the implying, but not"},{"startTime":968.634,"endTime":972.934,"body":"quite saying, whereas like you have"},{"startTime":968.634,"endTime":972.934,"body":"a team, but they're more like you're"},{"startTime":972.944,"endTime":977.984,"body":"delegating to the team rather than your"},{"startTime":972.944,"endTime":977.984,"body":"part of the team that always bothers"},{"startTime":977.984,"endTime":979.554,"body":"me about these kinds of presentations."},{"startTime":979.564,"endTime":980.124,"body":"But okay."},{"startTime":980.204,"endTime":983.994,"body":"I don't remember her going super deep"},{"startTime":980.204,"endTime":983.994,"body":"on the team, but I could be wrong."},{"startTime":984.004,"endTime":984.314,"body":"Let's see."},{"startTime":984.714,"endTime":988.824,"body":"And you know, I really think you need to"},{"startTime":984.714,"endTime":988.824,"body":"automate yourself to speed up delivery."},{"startTime":988.824,"endTime":990.024,"body":"That's task number one."},{"startTime":990.294,"endTime":992.504,"body":"Oh, that's her product chat PRD."},{"startTime":992.514,"endTime":993.844,"body":"There it is."},{"startTime":993.914,"endTime":994.674,"body":"Oh man."},{"startTime":994.674,"endTime":998.554,"body":"We got six minutes into a 20 minute"},{"startTime":994.674,"endTime":998.554,"body":"video for, for by product came out."},{"startTime":998.814,"endTime":999.534,"body":"All right, let's keep going."},{"startTime":999.984,"endTime":1002.884,"body":"And Jay Z was asking me behind backstage."},{"startTime":1002.884,"endTime":1003.964,"body":"She's like, how do you do it all?"},{"startTime":1003.994,"endTime":1007.304,"body":"And then she goes, that's how you do"},{"startTime":1003.994,"endTime":1007.304,"body":"it all, including how I do this talk."},{"startTime":1007.304,"endTime":1007.664,"body":"So I."},{"startTime":1008.164,"endTime":1010.114,"body":"Was like, how can I automate chat PRD?"},{"startTime":1010.134,"endTime":1012.464,"body":"How can I automate away all"},{"startTime":1010.134,"endTime":1012.464,"body":"the things that PMs do with AI?"},{"startTime":1012.714,"endTime":1016.474,"body":"And I made this to do list, and you'll"},{"startTime":1012.714,"endTime":1016.474,"body":"see how that to do list was generated"},{"startTime":1016.474,"endTime":1018.094,"body":"with chat PRD as I go through it."},{"startTime":1018.094,"endTime":1020.444,"body":"So I'm gonna give you a anti to do list."},{"startTime":1020.454,"endTime":1024.324,"body":"These are things that you"},{"startTime":1020.454,"endTime":1024.324,"body":"should no longer do on your own."},{"startTime":1024.334,"endTime":1027.334,"body":"You should automate"},{"startTime":1024.334,"endTime":1027.334,"body":"these things immediately."},{"startTime":1027.794,"endTime":1030.254,"body":"One is draft documents."},{"startTime":1030.254,"endTime":1030.714,"body":"Don't do that."},{"startTime":1030.724,"endTime":1032.004,"body":"That's, that's for suckers."},{"startTime":1032.104,"endTime":1033.524,"body":"Two, get and give feedback."},{"startTime":1033.524,"endTime":1034.554,"body":"First passive feedback."},{"startTime":1034.979,"endTime":1037.449,"body":"You shouldn't have to give"},{"startTime":1034.979,"endTime":1037.449,"body":"you should get feedback from"},{"startTime":1037.489,"endTime":1040.499,"body":"AI or a tool writing updates."},{"startTime":1040.509,"endTime":1043.799,"body":"How many of you are writing"},{"startTime":1040.509,"endTime":1043.799,"body":"updates daily a lot?"},{"startTime":1043.819,"endTime":1044.969,"body":"No, no one's writing updates."},{"startTime":1045.299,"endTime":1046.149,"body":"No one's writing stress."},{"startTime":1046.149,"endTime":1049.099,"body":"Okay, we got one one"},{"startTime":1046.149,"endTime":1049.099,"body":"product leader back here."},{"startTime":1049.349,"endTime":1052.489,"body":"I feel like either the crowd was sleepy"},{"startTime":1049.349,"endTime":1052.489,"body":"because it was the first presentation"},{"startTime":1052.489,"endTime":1055.399,"body":"in the morning or Nobody in the room"},{"startTime":1052.489,"endTime":1055.399,"body":"actually does do the operational."},{"startTime":1055.399,"endTime":1057.959,"body":"I think the coffee has kicked in,"},{"startTime":1055.399,"endTime":1057.959,"body":"it's just that nobody does it."},{"startTime":1058.329,"endTime":1061.219,"body":"I think, yeah, like she might"},{"startTime":1058.329,"endTime":1061.219,"body":"have walked into a room that is"},{"startTime":1061.219,"endTime":1062.649,"body":"like, Would you give updates?"},{"startTime":1062.649,"endTime":1063.619,"body":"We heard about that."},{"startTime":1063.639,"endTime":1065.069,"body":"We don't, we don't do Gantt charts."},{"startTime":1065.289,"endTime":1067.319,"body":"Get out of here selling"},{"startTime":1065.289,"endTime":1067.319,"body":"your Gantt chart tool."},{"startTime":1067.679,"endTime":1070.439,"body":"You know, with whatever tool you"},{"startTime":1067.679,"endTime":1070.439,"body":"might be advertising as cutting edge,"},{"startTime":1070.519,"endTime":1072.239,"body":"Agile tool, but it's actually just..."},{"startTime":1072.679,"endTime":1079.159,"body":"a Gantt chart - JIRA!"},{"startTime":1079.159,"endTime":1080.699,"body":"Alright, let's move on.,"},{"startTime":1081.089,"endTime":1085.094,"body":"Agenda, summaries, and action items"},{"startTime":1081.089,"endTime":1085.094,"body":"out of meetings, prioritizing feature"},{"startTime":1085.094,"endTime":1089.784,"body":"requests, monitoring goals and OKRs,"},{"startTime":1085.094,"endTime":1089.784,"body":"even coming up with goals and OKRs,"},{"startTime":1090.174,"endTime":1094.204,"body":"keeping track of competitors, prepping"},{"startTime":1090.174,"endTime":1094.204,"body":"for interviews, consolidating candidate"},{"startTime":1094.204,"endTime":1098.004,"body":"feedback if you're doing interviews,"},{"startTime":1094.204,"endTime":1098.004,"body":"telling customer stories you're the"},{"startTime":1098.004,"endTime":1099.534,"body":"keeper of, Oh, this feature is great."},{"startTime":1099.544,"endTime":1103.474,"body":"Cause so and so does this or so and"},{"startTime":1099.544,"endTime":1103.474,"body":"so did that making slides pretty."},{"startTime":1103.504,"endTime":1104.324,"body":"Don't do that."},{"startTime":1104.374,"endTime":1106.864,"body":"And then explaining product functionality."},{"startTime":1106.864,"endTime":1110.274,"body":"We're all just walking support"},{"startTime":1106.864,"endTime":1110.274,"body":"knowledge basis for our product areas."},{"startTime":1110.684,"endTime":1113.034,"body":"None of this you should be doing."},{"startTime":1113.054,"endTime":1116.504,"body":"You should think every time I do one"},{"startTime":1113.054,"endTime":1116.504,"body":"of these tasks on this anti to do"},{"startTime":1116.584,"endTime":1121.984,"body":"list, how can I automate it in the"},{"startTime":1116.584,"endTime":1121.984,"body":"moment and help you speed up delivery"},{"startTime":1122.044,"endTime":1123.714,"body":"overall, clear, clear the deck."},{"startTime":1123.724,"endTime":1125.494,"body":"And I think there are very easy ways."},{"startTime":1125.524,"endTime":1126.764,"body":"I basically, my trick here is."},{"startTime":1127.244,"endTime":1129.614,"body":"Every time I do one of those"},{"startTime":1127.244,"endTime":1129.614,"body":"things, then I think in my heart,"},{"startTime":1129.864,"endTime":1131.114,"body":"I wish I didn't have to do this."},{"startTime":1131.154,"endTime":1134.244,"body":"I go spend four to seven minutes"},{"startTime":1131.154,"endTime":1134.244,"body":"trying to figure out if I can"},{"startTime":1134.244,"endTime":1136.124,"body":"manifest a way not to have to do it."},{"startTime":1136.434,"endTime":1139.804,"body":"About 80 percent of the time"},{"startTime":1136.434,"endTime":1139.804,"body":"I get it done and I ship it."},{"startTime":1140.054,"endTime":1143.884,"body":"And this is not about there's this"},{"startTime":1140.054,"endTime":1143.884,"body":"mix of people who say, Oh, that saves"},{"startTime":1143.884,"endTime":1145.294,"body":"time, but doesn't increase quality."},{"startTime":1145.304,"endTime":1148.534,"body":"And I'm just using this quote from"},{"startTime":1145.304,"endTime":1148.534,"body":"somebody on my team who says, Don't"},{"startTime":1148.534,"endTime":1150.254,"body":"look at it as how you can get to 100%."},{"startTime":1150.504,"endTime":1154.454,"body":"Look at how you can get to 75 percent"},{"startTime":1150.504,"endTime":1154.454,"body":"faster than starting from zero."},{"startTime":1154.844,"endTime":1159.344,"body":"And I think people can save days"},{"startTime":1154.844,"endTime":1159.344,"body":"every week by automating themselves."},{"startTime":1159.594,"endTime":1161.464,"body":"I don't see how that's different"},{"startTime":1159.594,"endTime":1161.464,"body":"than the Pareto principle."},{"startTime":1161.464,"endTime":1164.184,"body":"I don't see how it's different than"},{"startTime":1161.464,"endTime":1164.184,"body":"80, 20, but it's, it isn't really."},{"startTime":1164.444,"endTime":1167.944,"body":"I think the underpinning"},{"startTime":1164.444,"endTime":1167.944,"body":"here is just automated."},{"startTime":1168.114,"endTime":1168.214,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":1168.304,"endTime":1170.174,"body":"Automate 80, 20 but I mean, it's fine."},{"startTime":1170.224,"endTime":1171.464,"body":"I'll automate any 20 is fine."},{"startTime":1171.464,"endTime":1173.764,"body":"But again, like we just did a"},{"startTime":1171.464,"endTime":1173.764,"body":"podcast on what product life"},{"startTime":1173.764,"endTime":1175.014,"body":"cycle phase is your product in?"},{"startTime":1175.364,"endTime":1180.384,"body":"And You know, if you're in that pre market"},{"startTime":1175.364,"endTime":1180.384,"body":"pre MVP type of phase where you're just"},{"startTime":1180.634,"endTime":1184.764,"body":"scrapping to keep the lights on or to"},{"startTime":1180.634,"endTime":1184.764,"body":"scrapping to be able to pay payroll like"},{"startTime":1184.774,"endTime":1189.304,"body":"automation is going to go by the wayside"},{"startTime":1184.774,"endTime":1189.304,"body":"as you're just jamming new stuff in."},{"startTime":1189.304,"endTime":1192.894,"body":"So you need to be in a certain, you"},{"startTime":1189.304,"endTime":1192.894,"body":"need a certain level of safety to be"},{"startTime":1192.894,"endTime":1197.664,"body":"able to do this safety meaning Revenue"},{"startTime":1192.894,"endTime":1197.664,"body":"or security from a large company."},{"startTime":1197.914,"endTime":1198.834,"body":"So that makes sense."},{"startTime":1198.874,"endTime":1200.284,"body":"But yeah, I agree with that."},{"startTime":1200.584,"endTime":1202.594,"body":"Smaller companies aren't"},{"startTime":1200.584,"endTime":1202.594,"body":"going to do this day one."},{"startTime":1202.774,"endTime":1204.234,"body":"Well, let's, let's we're halfway."},{"startTime":1204.234,"endTime":1205.134,"body":"We're almost halfway through."},{"startTime":1205.384,"endTime":1209.174,"body":"And then I think you really need to use"},{"startTime":1205.384,"endTime":1209.174,"body":"that time to add new skills and do more."},{"startTime":1209.174,"endTime":1212.874,"body":"So this is where we start thinking about"},{"startTime":1209.174,"endTime":1212.874,"body":"how product management is going to change"},{"startTime":1212.894,"endTime":1217.464,"body":"and to embarrass them when I call out"},{"startTime":1212.894,"endTime":1217.464,"body":"Cody, Cody's on our team, he leads our"},{"startTime":1217.484,"endTime":1220.164,"body":"product innovation and incubation team."},{"startTime":1220.174,"endTime":1220.904,"body":"And Cody."},{"startTime":1221.249,"endTime":1222.409,"body":"Actually comes from dev realm."},{"startTime":1222.479,"endTime":1227.969,"body":"So he's an engineer and Cody has"},{"startTime":1222.479,"endTime":1227.969,"body":"shown any and he was in marketing."},{"startTime":1227.979,"endTime":1232.529,"body":"So he's not a product manager and Cody has"},{"startTime":1227.979,"endTime":1232.529,"body":"just learned how to be an edge prototyper,"},{"startTime":1232.819,"endTime":1234.749,"body":"start building product and code."},{"startTime":1235.059,"endTime":1236.989,"body":"And we said, Hey Cody,"},{"startTime":1235.059,"endTime":1236.989,"body":"I'll give you a chat PRD."},{"startTime":1237.239,"endTime":1238.379,"body":"You want to be a product manager?"},{"startTime":1238.379,"endTime":1240.329,"body":"And he's like, sure, I'll"},{"startTime":1238.379,"endTime":1240.329,"body":"be a product manager."},{"startTime":1240.329,"endTime":1243.219,"body":"So he already has this"},{"startTime":1240.329,"endTime":1243.219,"body":"propensity to add more skills."},{"startTime":1243.219,"endTime":1246.049,"body":"This is a non traditional product"},{"startTime":1243.219,"endTime":1246.049,"body":"manager coming into a product"},{"startTime":1246.139,"endTime":1249.609,"body":"leadership role and using AI to figure"},{"startTime":1246.139,"endTime":1249.609,"body":"out how to be a product manager."},{"startTime":1249.609,"endTime":1255.989,"body":"There's so much that just got thrown"},{"startTime":1249.609,"endTime":1255.989,"body":"out right now, like I have to pause,"},{"startTime":1255.989,"endTime":1258.909,"body":"like I don't know about a product"},{"startTime":1255.989,"endTime":1258.909,"body":"leader because like Marty Kagan"},{"startTime":1258.909,"endTime":1261.329,"body":"definition of product leader is someone"},{"startTime":1258.909,"endTime":1261.329,"body":"who supervises product managers."},{"startTime":1261.329,"endTime":1265.849,"body":"So it would be weird to take a developer"},{"startTime":1261.329,"endTime":1265.849,"body":"who's working in some sort of marketing"},{"startTime":1265.849,"endTime":1269.259,"body":"function on a create new things team."},{"startTime":1269.259,"endTime":1271.929,"body":"Like she just said he was in an"},{"startTime":1269.259,"endTime":1271.929,"body":"innovation team and then roll"},{"startTime":1271.929,"endTime":1273.379,"body":"other product managers under him."},{"startTime":1273.629,"endTime":1274.619,"body":"I don't think that's what's going on."},{"startTime":1274.619,"endTime":1277.159,"body":"I think they're just calling them product"},{"startTime":1274.619,"endTime":1277.159,"body":"leaders because that's the new vogue term."},{"startTime":1277.594,"endTime":1281.614,"body":"But so you took someone with, who,"},{"startTime":1277.594,"endTime":1281.614,"body":"with a developer background who was"},{"startTime":1281.694,"endTime":1285.164,"body":"working in some kind of marketing"},{"startTime":1281.694,"endTime":1285.164,"body":"function for new, new development."},{"startTime":1285.194,"endTime":1286.554,"body":"I don't quite understand"},{"startTime":1285.194,"endTime":1286.554,"body":"what's happening there."},{"startTime":1286.844,"endTime":1290.364,"body":"And so, You said, use this AI"},{"startTime":1286.844,"endTime":1290.364,"body":"tool in your product manager now."},{"startTime":1290.764,"endTime":1293.824,"body":"And I will tell you that doesn't"},{"startTime":1290.764,"endTime":1293.824,"body":"really sound a lot different than a"},{"startTime":1293.824,"endTime":1296.454,"body":"lot of the other ways that product"},{"startTime":1293.824,"endTime":1296.454,"body":"managers I know got their start."},{"startTime":1296.454,"endTime":1299.064,"body":"So it sounds pretty normal"},{"startTime":1296.454,"endTime":1299.064,"body":"to me, to be honest."},{"startTime":1299.214,"endTime":1302.424,"body":"It's yeah, it sounds normal,"},{"startTime":1299.214,"endTime":1302.424,"body":"but it's incredible too."},{"startTime":1302.634,"endTime":1303.114,"body":"Yeah, right."},{"startTime":1303.144,"endTime":1307.014,"body":"Because the idea that you just have"},{"startTime":1303.144,"endTime":1307.014,"body":"a tool and then you could use it"},{"startTime":1307.204,"endTime":1308.734,"body":"and you become a product manager."},{"startTime":1308.794,"endTime":1310.414,"body":"That's a bit of a stretch in my mind."},{"startTime":1310.474,"endTime":1312.864,"body":"It is a stretch,  it's anybody"},{"startTime":1310.474,"endTime":1312.864,"body":"that got their certain product."},{"startTime":1313.044,"endTime":1316.484,"body":"Like I got my certain product management"},{"startTime":1313.044,"endTime":1316.484,"body":"of being thrown a suite of internal tools"},{"startTime":1316.494,"endTime":1320.084,"body":"that they were unsupportable by the teams"},{"startTime":1316.494,"endTime":1320.084,"body":"and nobody could wrap their arms around"},{"startTime":1320.084,"endTime":1321.404,"body":"a cohesive strategy for all of them."},{"startTime":1321.404,"endTime":1324.364,"body":"And it was like, congratulations,"},{"startTime":1321.404,"endTime":1324.364,"body":"kid, you're managing the organization."},{"startTime":1324.374,"endTime":1327.254,"body":"You need more than two day jobs."},{"startTime":1327.504,"endTime":1331.574,"body":"Of team leads and you know supervisory"},{"startTime":1327.504,"endTime":1331.574,"body":"roles and hiring managers and whatnot."},{"startTime":1331.574,"endTime":1335.074,"body":"I mean here you're a product owner now"},{"startTime":1331.574,"endTime":1335.074,"body":"So getting a start like that is fine."},{"startTime":1335.074,"endTime":1339.549,"body":"I think it's very common as well, right"},{"startTime":1335.074,"endTime":1339.549,"body":"but You didn't use a tool Yeah, to"},{"startTime":1339.549,"endTime":1341.739,"body":"just say, okay, now I can do anything."},{"startTime":1341.739,"endTime":1343.729,"body":"It's like saying, well,"},{"startTime":1341.739,"endTime":1343.729,"body":"look, I've got a handle now."},{"startTime":1343.729,"endTime":1344.329,"body":"I'm pilot."},{"startTime":1344.689,"endTime":1344.809,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":1344.899,"endTime":1345.229,"body":"Come on."},{"startTime":1345.349,"endTime":1347.899,"body":"Well, I mean, I'm kind of with her on that"},{"startTime":1345.349,"endTime":1347.899,"body":"one is like, at least they had a tool."},{"startTime":1347.899,"endTime":1348.709,"body":"I had like nothing."},{"startTime":1348.959,"endTime":1349.171,"body":"I had a spreadsheet point."},{"startTime":1349.176,"endTime":1351.819,"body":"So the tool doesn't give"},{"startTime":1349.176,"endTime":1351.819,"body":"you superpowers basically."},{"startTime":1352.029,"endTime":1354.039,"body":"Well, her, her tool does, so buy her tool."},{"startTime":1354.289,"endTime":1355.079,"body":"That's okay."},{"startTime":1355.169,"endTime":1357.099,"body":"I haven't heard it yet,"},{"startTime":1355.169,"endTime":1357.099,"body":"but I will get that."},{"startTime":1357.099,"endTime":1357.669,"body":"I'm getting that."},{"startTime":1357.679,"endTime":1357.949,"body":"Is it?"},{"startTime":1357.959,"endTime":1361.959,"body":"Her claim to fame is that she's"},{"startTime":1357.959,"endTime":1361.959,"body":"behind a chat PRD as a founder"},{"startTime":1361.959,"endTime":1362.979,"body":"or a creator or something."},{"startTime":1363.069,"endTime":1367.819,"body":"I figured the whole talk would be as a"},{"startTime":1363.069,"endTime":1367.819,"body":"backdrop of like how chat PRD can empower"},{"startTime":1367.819,"endTime":1371.849,"body":"you if you just forget everything messages"},{"startTime":1367.819,"endTime":1371.849,"body":"are already there and I received those."},{"startTime":1372.099,"endTime":1373.529,"body":"But, Cody got blocked."},{"startTime":1373.989,"endTime":1379.629,"body":"He was building a product, and he was"},{"startTime":1373.989,"endTime":1379.629,"body":"part of a triad, and design had four"},{"startTime":1379.629,"endTime":1381.889,"body":"other priorities, and Cody was blocked."},{"startTime":1382.139,"endTime":1386.229,"body":"And instead of saying, I'm blocked,"},{"startTime":1382.139,"endTime":1386.229,"body":"and I'm a marketer, and I'm an"},{"startTime":1386.229,"endTime":1388.979,"body":"engineering prototyper, and I'm"},{"startTime":1386.229,"endTime":1388.979,"body":"like kind of a product manager, just"},{"startTime":1388.979,"endTime":1393.169,"body":"learning how to do it now, and crying,"},{"startTime":1388.979,"endTime":1393.169,"body":"he learned how to be a designer."},{"startTime":1393.379,"endTime":1398.439,"body":"So he started using v0.dev"},{"startTime":1393.379,"endTime":1398.439,"body":"to actually build wireframes."},{"startTime":1398.784,"endTime":1399.684,"body":"These aren't even wireframes."},{"startTime":1399.794,"endTime":1405.014,"body":"Build beautiful designs and prototypes"},{"startTime":1399.794,"endTime":1405.014,"body":"for his product as part of his"},{"startTime":1405.054,"endTime":1409.864,"body":"package of requirements to the team."},{"startTime":1410.324,"endTime":1414.524,"body":"And now, I mean bless him, he's"},{"startTime":1410.324,"endTime":1414.524,"body":"starting to do PRs for front end code."},{"startTime":1414.524,"endTime":1416.804,"body":"I mean, this guy is out of control."},{"startTime":1416.804,"endTime":1420.164,"body":"And what I think you need to think about"},{"startTime":1416.804,"endTime":1420.164,"body":"is these are the kind of people that"},{"startTime":1420.164,"endTime":1421.424,"body":"are going to come for product jobs."},{"startTime":1421.674,"endTime":1423.834,"body":"So he's, he's a front end engineer."},{"startTime":1424.164,"endTime":1424.854,"body":"He's a front, yeah."},{"startTime":1425.064,"endTime":1425.874,"body":"Remember this discussion?"},{"startTime":1426.024,"endTime":1427.364,"body":"You don't just need to be a scrum master."},{"startTime":1427.364,"endTime":1428.854,"body":"You need to contribute to the team."},{"startTime":1428.854,"endTime":1432.084,"body":"You need to be a"},{"startTime":1428.854,"endTime":1432.084,"body":"requirements person, a BA."},{"startTime":1432.084,"endTime":1434.614,"body":"You can do, maybe you can do front"},{"startTime":1432.084,"endTime":1434.614,"body":"end work in architectural design."},{"startTime":1434.614,"endTime":1438.049,"body":"And remember like arguing agile"},{"startTime":1434.614,"endTime":1438.049,"body":"two is where this came from."},{"startTime":1438.049,"endTime":1440.394,"body":"Yeah, that's, that's the path to success."},{"startTime":1440.709,"endTime":1443.229,"body":"Remember a certain financial"},{"startTime":1440.709,"endTime":1443.229,"body":"institution pitching that is"},{"startTime":1443.229,"endTime":1444.269,"body":"that's the path to success."},{"startTime":1444.499,"endTime":1446.489,"body":"You just need to, you"},{"startTime":1444.499,"endTime":1446.489,"body":"just need to do more."},{"startTime":1446.709,"endTime":1447.239,"body":"That's right."},{"startTime":1447.489,"endTime":1447.709,"body":"Do more."},{"startTime":1447.709,"endTime":1448.289,"body":"You can do anything you want."},{"startTime":1448.289,"endTime":1451.139,"body":"That'll keep you from"},{"startTime":1448.289,"endTime":1451.139,"body":"getting fired by sociopaths."},{"startTime":1451.179,"endTime":1451.469,"body":"All right."},{"startTime":1451.749,"endTime":1453.619,"body":"These are the kind of people"},{"startTime":1451.749,"endTime":1453.619,"body":"you're going to want to hire."},{"startTime":1453.619,"endTime":1456.669,"body":"And this is the breadth of skills"},{"startTime":1453.619,"endTime":1456.669,"body":"that you're really going to want"},{"startTime":1456.689,"endTime":1458.569,"body":"on your team and in yourself."},{"startTime":1458.819,"endTime":1461.559,"body":"And then, of course, none of that"},{"startTime":1458.819,"endTime":1461.559,"body":"matters if it's just one person."},{"startTime":1461.559,"endTime":1463.209,"body":"If it's just a Cody, as we say."},{"startTime":1463.504,"endTime":1466.224,"body":"You have to multiply your"},{"startTime":1463.504,"endTime":1466.224,"body":"impact by teaching the team."},{"startTime":1466.224,"endTime":1470.054,"body":"So we actually have a project building"},{"startTime":1466.224,"endTime":1470.054,"body":"with AI channel at launch darkly where"},{"startTime":1470.094,"endTime":1472.134,"body":"every day we're sharing different ways."},{"startTime":1472.134,"endTime":1475.754,"body":"We're automating ourselves,"},{"startTime":1472.134,"endTime":1475.754,"body":"asking for help building things."},{"startTime":1475.794,"endTime":1477.864,"body":"And it's the most exciting channel."},{"startTime":1478.124,"endTime":1481.264,"body":"And I post all the time, things"},{"startTime":1478.124,"endTime":1481.264,"body":"that I build, because I think as a"},{"startTime":1481.264,"endTime":1485.974,"body":"product leader, you have to normalize"},{"startTime":1481.264,"endTime":1485.974,"body":"using these tools to accelerate"},{"startTime":1485.974,"endTime":1489.524,"body":"and build skills so that people"},{"startTime":1485.974,"endTime":1489.524,"body":"don't feel so bashful about it."},{"startTime":1489.524,"endTime":1491.684,"body":"You also have to fund it, but"},{"startTime":1489.524,"endTime":1491.684,"body":"we'll get to that in a minute."},{"startTime":1491.934,"endTime":1492.434,"body":"Well, good."},{"startTime":1492.434,"endTime":1493.984,"body":"I'm glad we didn't leave that out."},{"startTime":1494.044,"endTime":1494.534,"body":"Yeah, I know."},{"startTime":1494.534,"endTime":1495.554,"body":"That's slightly important."},{"startTime":1495.604,"endTime":1498.814,"body":"You can ask for help anytime you"},{"startTime":1495.604,"endTime":1498.814,"body":"want, but also get that stuff done."},{"startTime":1498.814,"endTime":1500.464,"body":"And you work 40 hours."},{"startTime":1500.464,"endTime":1502.044,"body":"Well, there's weekends, too."},{"startTime":1502.044,"endTime":1503.354,"body":"So get that done already."},{"startTime":1503.354,"endTime":1508.422,"body":"Great expectations are kind of useless"},{"startTime":1503.354,"endTime":1508.422,"body":"if our funding doesn't back up our words."},{"startTime":1508.452,"endTime":1510.262,"body":"You know, our actions"},{"startTime":1508.452,"endTime":1510.262,"body":"don't back up our words."},{"startTime":1510.262,"endTime":1510.407,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":1510.647,"endTime":1511.117,"body":"That's what I'm saying."},{"startTime":1511.117,"endTime":1512.377,"body":"So glad you said that."},{"startTime":1512.627,"endTime":1516.197,"body":"So this is what I think it"},{"startTime":1512.627,"endTime":1516.197,"body":"takes to be an AI powered PM"},{"startTime":1516.197,"endTime":1517.737,"body":"and an AI powered product team."},{"startTime":1517.987,"endTime":1521.767,"body":"And I think this is how we get to this"},{"startTime":1517.987,"endTime":1521.767,"body":"world where product world takes less time."},{"startTime":1522.017,"endTime":1523.477,"body":"So you can spend more time with users."},{"startTime":1523.727,"endTime":1525.217,"body":"It takes less thought."},{"startTime":1525.587,"endTime":1529.727,"body":"So you can actually be more creative"},{"startTime":1525.587,"endTime":1529.727,"body":"with the time that you have."},{"startTime":1529.977,"endTime":1531.747,"body":"I don't agree with less thought."},{"startTime":1531.847,"endTime":1533.127,"body":"She meant less distracted."},{"startTime":1533.177,"endTime":1535.577,"body":"She meant less, lessen the cognitive load."},{"startTime":1535.587,"endTime":1537.957,"body":"So you can be more focused and"},{"startTime":1535.587,"endTime":1537.957,"body":"more creative on the few things."},{"startTime":1537.967,"endTime":1538.627,"body":"That's what she meant."},{"startTime":1538.657,"endTime":1539.367,"body":"That makes sense."},{"startTime":1539.597,"endTime":1540.167,"body":"That's what she meant."},{"startTime":1540.417,"endTime":1541.537,"body":"And then has less PMs."},{"startTime":1541.607,"endTime":1542.422,"body":"Wait, hold on."},{"startTime":1542.422,"endTime":1543.887,"body":"I don't think y'all"},{"startTime":1542.422,"endTime":1543.887,"body":"are going to like this."},{"startTime":1543.887,"endTime":1546.807,"body":"I think maybe we want"},{"startTime":1543.887,"endTime":1546.807,"body":"to talk about this one."},{"startTime":1547.207,"endTime":1551.027,"body":"And this is one of my strongly"},{"startTime":1547.207,"endTime":1551.027,"body":"held beliefs about the art of"},{"startTime":1551.077,"endTime":1554.877,"body":"product management, which I've"},{"startTime":1551.077,"endTime":1554.877,"body":"made a career out of, is I think"},{"startTime":1554.907,"endTime":1558.077,"body":"AI will collapse the talent stack."},{"startTime":1558.317,"endTime":1563.117,"body":"So what I mean is, these jobs that have"},{"startTime":1558.317,"endTime":1563.117,"body":"been separate will start to become one."},{"startTime":1563.367,"endTime":1566.307,"body":"And that's really scary,"},{"startTime":1563.367,"endTime":1566.307,"body":"and it's a big change."},{"startTime":1566.637,"endTime":1570.787,"body":"But I don't believe, and my experience has"},{"startTime":1566.637,"endTime":1570.787,"body":"been, it doesn't have to break your team."},{"startTime":1571.037,"endTime":1572.287,"body":"So first, a quick exercise."},{"startTime":1572.337,"endTime":1574.277,"body":"God, I'm trying to do arm"},{"startTime":1572.337,"endTime":1574.277,"body":"raising exercises and you're"},{"startTime":1574.277,"endTime":1575.247,"body":"all giving me nothing."},{"startTime":1575.257,"endTime":1576.967,"body":"So, come along with me."},{"startTime":1576.977,"endTime":1580.867,"body":"How many of you have given"},{"startTime":1576.977,"endTime":1580.867,"body":"an update in Slack this week?"},{"startTime":1581.117,"endTime":1582.547,"body":"My God, no one's working, man."},{"startTime":1582.597,"endTime":1582.887,"body":"Okay."},{"startTime":1583.287,"endTime":1586.267,"body":"How many of you have written"},{"startTime":1583.287,"endTime":1586.267,"body":"a document this week?"},{"startTime":1586.517,"endTime":1587.857,"body":"Okay, we're all writing documents."},{"startTime":1587.857,"endTime":1588.107,"body":"Alright."},{"startTime":1588.357,"endTime":1591.097,"body":"How many of you have"},{"startTime":1588.357,"endTime":1591.097,"body":"done a design this week?"},{"startTime":1591.347,"endTime":1591.827,"body":"A few."},{"startTime":1592.077,"endTime":1593.607,"body":"How many of you have"},{"startTime":1592.077,"endTime":1593.607,"body":"written code this week?"},{"startTime":1593.857,"endTime":1596.567,"body":"How many of you have deployed"},{"startTime":1593.857,"endTime":1596.567,"body":"code to production this week?"},{"startTime":1596.817,"endTime":1597.357,"body":"Okay."},{"startTime":1597.707,"endTime":1599.597,"body":"That's those, those, those five people."},{"startTime":1599.617,"endTime":1600.847,"body":"That's what's coming for us."},{"startTime":1600.857,"endTime":1602.777,"body":"So before we really"},{"startTime":1603.027,"endTime":1604.107,"body":"You wanna get on that?"},{"startTime":1604.107,"endTime":1606.567,"body":"You gotta deploy code to them to"},{"startTime":1604.107,"endTime":1606.567,"body":"get ahead in product management."},{"startTime":1606.972,"endTime":1608.732,"body":"Written code and deployed code."},{"startTime":1608.742,"endTime":1610.632,"body":"So, fire all your team."},{"startTime":1610.632,"endTime":1611.262,"body":"You don't need them."},{"startTime":1611.532,"endTime":1612.132,"body":"You can do this."},{"startTime":1612.202,"endTime":1616.072,"body":"And ChatGPT or whatever she's peddling"},{"startTime":1612.202,"endTime":1616.072,"body":"can help you get there faster."},{"startTime":1616.082,"endTime":1619.922,"body":"Well, and in fact, I would argue ChatGPT"},{"startTime":1616.082,"endTime":1619.922,"body":"can't help you deploy code either."},{"startTime":1620.172,"endTime":1622.582,"body":"If you've ever had it"},{"startTime":1620.172,"endTime":1622.582,"body":"generate code for you"},{"startTime":1622.882,"endTime":1626.122,"body":"so the it's first of all  only,"},{"startTime":1622.882,"endTime":1626.122,"body":"cause we just finished the podcast"},{"startTime":1626.142,"endTime":1627.422,"body":"on, what phase is your software?"},{"startTime":1627.422,"endTime":1631.222,"body":"And I'm like, if you're in"},{"startTime":1627.422,"endTime":1631.222,"body":"this pre MVP, like pre market"},{"startTime":1631.222,"endTime":1633.202,"body":"fit phase, I'm, I'm with her."},{"startTime":1633.242,"endTime":1633.492,"body":"Sure."},{"startTime":1633.512,"endTime":1633.862,"body":"A hundred percent."},{"startTime":1633.862,"endTime":1634.652,"body":"Everyone does everything."},{"startTime":1634.652,"endTime":1636.032,"body":"I've got no pro everyone does everything."},{"startTime":1636.042,"endTime":1636.342,"body":"Yep."},{"startTime":1636.592,"endTime":1637.762,"body":"You go into the growth phase."},{"startTime":1638.012,"endTime":1640.842,"body":"I mean, these, we had a name for"},{"startTime":1638.012,"endTime":1640.842,"body":"this in the 2000s development."},{"startTime":1640.872,"endTime":1642.522,"body":"These were the cowboy developers."},{"startTime":1642.522,"endTime":1645.102,"body":"Remember like cowboy developers"},{"startTime":1642.522,"endTime":1645.102,"body":"could get in right requirements."},{"startTime":1645.102,"endTime":1646.842,"body":"Cowboy developers can do use interviews."},{"startTime":1647.307,"endTime":1650.277,"body":"Cowboy developers can you"},{"startTime":1647.307,"endTime":1650.277,"body":"know, like oh yeah, absolutely."},{"startTime":1650.407,"endTime":1654.017,"body":"Yeah, they could make screen designs"},{"startTime":1650.407,"endTime":1654.017,"body":"And they usually would they would draw"},{"startTime":1654.027,"endTime":1657.657,"body":"out on the whiteboard Push the tech"},{"startTime":1654.027,"endTime":1657.657,"body":"writer and the designer out of the"},{"startTime":1657.657,"endTime":1660.997,"body":"way and be like i'll show you how the"},{"startTime":1657.657,"endTime":1660.997,"body":"screen's gotta be written This is what"},{"startTime":1660.997,"endTime":1662.747,"body":"I think Those are the people we prize."},{"startTime":1662.757,"endTime":1663.647,"body":"That's what we're saying here."},{"startTime":1663.707,"endTime":1664.507,"body":"Oh my God."},{"startTime":1664.697,"endTime":1667.287,"body":"I know it's not that simple"},{"startTime":1664.697,"endTime":1667.287,"body":"and I'm being ridiculous, but."},{"startTime":1667.417,"endTime":1670.797,"body":"But still though, the general"},{"startTime":1667.417,"endTime":1670.797,"body":"direction of where she's going is"},{"startTime":1670.797,"endTime":1674.987,"body":"that product people will do all of"},{"startTime":1670.797,"endTime":1674.987,"body":"these things going forward, right?"},{"startTime":1675.037,"endTime":1679.904,"body":"Arguing agile 120 did Airbnb fire all"},{"startTime":1675.037,"endTime":1679.904,"body":"their product managers that we did that"},{"startTime":1679.904,"endTime":1684.814,"body":"podcast where we listened to Brian Chesky"},{"startTime":1679.904,"endTime":1684.814,"body":"say I, I don't need product managers"},{"startTime":1684.854,"endTime":1687.054,"body":"unless they can market a feature."},{"startTime":1687.304,"endTime":1690.924,"body":"But the full end to end, so"},{"startTime":1687.304,"endTime":1690.924,"body":"she hasn't mentioned that her,"},{"startTime":1691.004,"endTime":1692.224,"body":"her background is in marketing."},{"startTime":1692.224,"endTime":1693.404,"body":"I checked, right."},{"startTime":1693.714,"endTime":1695.404,"body":"She hasn't mentioned anything"},{"startTime":1693.714,"endTime":1695.404,"body":"about the product manager being"},{"startTime":1695.404,"endTime":1698.054,"body":"involved in the marketing of the"},{"startTime":1695.404,"endTime":1698.054,"body":"feature, which is interesting to me."},{"startTime":1698.054,"endTime":1698.324,"body":"So like."},{"startTime":1698.574,"endTime":1703.524,"body":"If you seem to be pushing towards"},{"startTime":1698.574,"endTime":1703.524,"body":"more technical, not, not the job"},{"startTime":1703.524,"endTime":1707.064,"body":"role, technical product manager, but"},{"startTime":1703.524,"endTime":1707.064,"body":"saying product managers should go"},{"startTime":1707.074,"endTime":1708.714,"body":"deeper in their technical expertise."},{"startTime":1708.954,"endTime":1712.384,"body":"You actually haven't gone down the side"},{"startTime":1708.954,"endTime":1712.384,"body":"to say of like, are they business leaders?"},{"startTime":1712.564,"endTime":1715.194,"body":"Like, should they what about"},{"startTime":1712.564,"endTime":1715.194,"body":"their chops with the business?"},{"startTime":1715.254,"endTime":1719.444,"body":"Because  I only bring that up because I"},{"startTime":1715.254,"endTime":1719.444,"body":"have gotten feedback in my career that"},{"startTime":1719.444,"endTime":1724.399,"body":"has steered me to say, Brian, you can"},{"startTime":1719.444,"endTime":1724.399,"body":"check in code and you can be contributing"},{"startTime":1724.409,"endTime":1728.369,"body":"stuff  into repos you could be working"},{"startTime":1724.409,"endTime":1728.369,"body":"and checking stuff in, but before you"},{"startTime":1728.369,"endTime":1732.069,"body":"put your hands on code, you really"},{"startTime":1728.369,"endTime":1732.069,"body":"need to ask yourself, is that where the"},{"startTime":1732.069,"endTime":1736.819,"body":"business needs you, or does the business"},{"startTime":1732.069,"endTime":1736.819,"body":"need you constructing and flying these"},{"startTime":1736.819,"endTime":1739.939,"body":"strategies and keeping teams on track and"},{"startTime":1736.819,"endTime":1739.939,"body":"coordinating and, you know what I mean,"},{"startTime":1739.939,"endTime":1744.319,"body":"like between operational and business"},{"startTime":1739.939,"endTime":1744.319,"body":"leadership, there's enough work there."},{"startTime":1744.329,"endTime":1744.349,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":1744.599,"endTime":1749.609,"body":"We don't need you in the tactical, in"},{"startTime":1744.599,"endTime":1749.609,"body":"the code level, because that is the path"},{"startTime":1749.619,"endTime":1752.299,"body":"to work in 72 hours a week or whatever."},{"startTime":1752.299,"endTime":1754.719,"body":"Like Well, and, also, why did"},{"startTime":1752.299,"endTime":1754.719,"body":"they hire you in the first place?"},{"startTime":1754.869,"endTime":1758.839,"body":"and also, what is happening in the"},{"startTime":1754.869,"endTime":1758.839,"body":"business where I am, I'm doing all that,"},{"startTime":1759.089,"endTime":1763.139,"body":"and the business is not responding to"},{"startTime":1759.089,"endTime":1763.139,"body":"saying well, I can't believe my product"},{"startTime":1763.139,"endTime":1766.569,"body":"manager is, Doing all this business"},{"startTime":1763.139,"endTime":1766.569,"body":"leadership stuff and this marketing stuff"},{"startTime":1766.789,"endTime":1769.739,"body":"and this future strategy development"},{"startTime":1766.789,"endTime":1769.739,"body":"stuff and coordinating with all the"},{"startTime":1769.739,"endTime":1772.569,"body":"customers and they're in the code"},{"startTime":1769.739,"endTime":1772.569,"body":"like At some point the business has to"},{"startTime":1772.579,"endTime":1775.559,"body":"turn around be like we've failed these"},{"startTime":1772.579,"endTime":1775.559,"body":"people we need to get more people."},{"startTime":1775.559,"endTime":1776.469,"body":"We need to rebalance."},{"startTime":1776.499,"endTime":1779.199,"body":"We need to do something like Is the"},{"startTime":1776.499,"endTime":1779.199,"body":"business doing nothing while I'm doing"},{"startTime":1779.209,"endTime":1780.699,"body":"all this stuff because spoiler alert."},{"startTime":1780.909,"endTime":1784.089,"body":"I'm already this, this ideal, this,"},{"startTime":1780.909,"endTime":1784.089,"body":"these five people with their hand"},{"startTime":1784.099,"endTime":1785.789,"body":"up, like I'm in the crowd, that's me."},{"startTime":1785.859,"endTime":1790.659,"body":"So only five is a small percentage of"},{"startTime":1785.859,"endTime":1790.659,"body":"people I mean if if you're doing all of"},{"startTime":1790.659,"endTime":1794.249,"body":"those things that she's suggesting you"},{"startTime":1790.659,"endTime":1794.249,"body":"do You're not doing any of them well,"},{"startTime":1794.259,"endTime":1798.139,"body":"because you cannot spread yourself that"},{"startTime":1794.259,"endTime":1798.139,"body":"thin you don't have vertical experience"},{"startTime":1798.179,"endTime":1799.979,"body":"in Well, certainly not development."},{"startTime":1800.269,"endTime":1803.949,"body":"She said that but You know, deploying"},{"startTime":1800.269,"endTime":1803.949,"body":"code and all of those things, you can"},{"startTime":1803.949,"endTime":1807.939,"body":"automate the heck out of those things too,"},{"startTime":1803.949,"endTime":1807.939,"body":"but you shouldn't be the one doing it."},{"startTime":1807.979,"endTime":1812.079,"body":"You should be the one making sure your"},{"startTime":1807.979,"endTime":1812.079,"body":"teams are moving along those lines."},{"startTime":1812.129,"endTime":1812.859,"body":"Let's automate."},{"startTime":1812.889,"endTime":1813.499,"body":"Let's do this."},{"startTime":1813.499,"endTime":1813.999,"body":"Let's do that."},{"startTime":1814.399,"endTime":1815.569,"body":"I'm okay with that."},{"startTime":1815.599,"endTime":1816.879,"body":"I'm not okay with this."},{"startTime":1817.199,"endTime":1819.579,"body":"One person, unicorn that does everything."},{"startTime":1819.649,"endTime":1821.069,"body":"I don't know if that's going to fly."},{"startTime":1821.419,"endTime":1822.659,"body":"Well, let's see where she goes with it."},{"startTime":1822.659,"endTime":1822.999,"body":"Sure."},{"startTime":1823.249,"endTime":1827.349,"body":"Love this idea of the product triad,"},{"startTime":1823.249,"endTime":1827.349,"body":"this product engineering design, these"},{"startTime":1827.349,"endTime":1830.919,"body":"leads, maybe you had, instead of a"},{"startTime":1827.349,"endTime":1830.919,"body":"stool, you had a table, you got data"},{"startTime":1830.919,"endTime":1834.999,"body":"in there surrounded by supporting"},{"startTime":1830.919,"endTime":1834.999,"body":"engineering and design resources."},{"startTime":1834.999,"endTime":1839.309,"body":"I think this is what has been"},{"startTime":1834.999,"endTime":1839.309,"body":"classically the platonic ideal of"},{"startTime":1839.309,"endTime":1841.269,"body":"a product team for quite some time."},{"startTime":1841.519,"endTime":1847.459,"body":"And I think what's, it's the Marty"},{"startTime":1841.519,"endTime":1847.459,"body":"Cagan designer engineer product person."},{"startTime":1847.559,"endTime":1851.289,"body":"The Holy Trinity, as I say, with this"},{"startTime":1847.559,"endTime":1851.289,"body":"is because they're all separate product"},{"startTime":1851.539,"endTime":1853.599,"body":"operates as a handoff mechanism."},{"startTime":1853.599,"endTime":1857.759,"body":"I'm going to hand off design's going"},{"startTime":1853.599,"endTime":1857.759,"body":"to hand off things to engineering."},{"startTime":1857.759,"endTime":1860.874,"body":"I'm going to make sure they know"},{"startTime":1857.759,"endTime":1860.874,"body":"engineering manager is going to Hand"},{"startTime":1860.874,"endTime":1863.234,"body":"off things to engineering and they're"},{"startTime":1860.874,"endTime":1863.234,"body":"going to make sure that they know things."},{"startTime":1863.594,"endTime":1868.764,"body":"And it means you stay really hands"},{"startTime":1863.594,"endTime":1868.764,"body":"off with what actually gets built."},{"startTime":1869.114,"endTime":1872.894,"body":"And so what I think we're moving to now"},{"startTime":1869.114,"endTime":1872.894,"body":"is more of this generalist specialists."},{"startTime":1872.904,"endTime":1877.894,"body":"So you have specialists in product design"},{"startTime":1872.904,"endTime":1877.894,"body":"and engineering, but at least in my"},{"startTime":1877.894,"endTime":1882.604,"body":"organization, they're really expected to"},{"startTime":1877.894,"endTime":1882.604,"body":"participate across the building process."},{"startTime":1882.604,"endTime":1884.004,"body":"They're expected to do."},{"startTime":1884.409,"endTime":1888.119,"body":"The work that needs to get done"},{"startTime":1884.409,"endTime":1888.119,"body":"to move the project forward and"},{"startTime":1888.139,"endTime":1890.649,"body":"the operating principle that"},{"startTime":1888.139,"endTime":1890.649,"body":"we embrace at launch darkly."},{"startTime":1890.679,"endTime":1894.109,"body":"We call this there are no lanes, so"},{"startTime":1890.679,"endTime":1894.109,"body":"you know there's like stay in your"},{"startTime":1894.109,"endTime":1895.849,"body":"lane and we're like there are no lanes."},{"startTime":1895.869,"endTime":1898.719,"body":"If there's something to get done"},{"startTime":1895.869,"endTime":1898.719,"body":"and you have the skill to do it"},{"startTime":1899.069,"endTime":1901.529,"body":"culturally, we embrace getting it done."},{"startTime":1901.779,"endTime":1905.969,"body":"this must be a Silicon Valley, like"},{"startTime":1901.779,"endTime":1905.969,"body":"culture thing because nowhere else"},{"startTime":1906.219,"endTime":1908.819,"body":"are they like, Oh, I'm going to"},{"startTime":1906.219,"endTime":1908.819,"body":"hand stuff over to engineering and"},{"startTime":1908.819,"endTime":1910.049,"body":"they take it and they run with it."},{"startTime":1910.059,"endTime":1911.704,"body":"I'm going to hand stuff over to"},{"startTime":1910.059,"endTime":1911.704,"body":"design and I don't have that."},{"startTime":1911.954,"endTime":1914.254,"body":"Transparency into what they're doing"},{"startTime":1911.954,"endTime":1914.254,"body":"and I don't know that they got four"},{"startTime":1914.254,"endTime":1917.494,"body":"priorities ahead of me or whatever"},{"startTime":1914.254,"endTime":1917.494,"body":"Like the like I have a team my team"},{"startTime":1917.494,"endTime":1921.694,"body":"is encompass of people of all these"},{"startTime":1917.494,"endTime":1921.694,"body":"disciplines and we all together get"},{"startTime":1921.694,"endTime":1923.364,"body":"stuff done That's exactly right."},{"startTime":1923.434,"endTime":1927.114,"body":"I'm kind of surprised that she he's"},{"startTime":1923.434,"endTime":1927.114,"body":"suggesting this now, you know I haven't"},{"startTime":1927.114,"endTime":1932.164,"body":"got this far into the podcast, but I agree"},{"startTime":1927.114,"endTime":1932.164,"body":"with the principle that those circles On"},{"startTime":1932.164,"endTime":1933.944,"body":"the Venn diagram should be overlapping."},{"startTime":1933.944,"endTime":1936.874,"body":"I say they should be overlapping"},{"startTime":1933.944,"endTime":1936.874,"body":"more than what she's showing here."},{"startTime":1936.914,"endTime":1941.909,"body":"I'm okay with that You you know, so if"},{"startTime":1936.914,"endTime":1941.909,"body":"she's saying generalist specialists,"},{"startTime":1942.159,"endTime":1943.469,"body":"they're still specialists first."},{"startTime":1943.509,"endTime":1946.289,"body":"They're just reaching across the aisle"},{"startTime":1943.509,"endTime":1946.289,"body":"and saying, let's work together right."},{"startTime":1946.289,"endTime":1946.459,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":1946.459,"endTime":1949.159,"body":"So we're getting rid of that"},{"startTime":1946.459,"endTime":1949.159,"body":"siloism that we often talk about."},{"startTime":1949.179,"endTime":1950.079,"body":"It's also interesting."},{"startTime":1950.229,"endTime":1952.599,"body":"It's also interesting that she's"},{"startTime":1950.229,"endTime":1952.599,"body":"pointing out the, the, the, like the"},{"startTime":1952.599,"endTime":1955.009,"body":"concept of general, like I understand"},{"startTime":1952.599,"endTime":1955.009,"body":"what you're saying with generalists."},{"startTime":1955.009,"endTime":1956.089,"body":"Cause you're all sitting on the same team."},{"startTime":1956.089,"endTime":1957.429,"body":"You have specialties anyway."},{"startTime":1957.699,"endTime":1962.529,"body":"but the, the backlash against generalists"},{"startTime":1957.699,"endTime":1962.529,"body":"in product management Has been pretty"},{"startTime":1962.529,"endTime":1964.319,"body":"severe in the last couple of years."},{"startTime":1964.329,"endTime":1966.739,"body":"So it's interesting that she's"},{"startTime":1964.329,"endTime":1966.739,"body":"pushing in that direction."},{"startTime":1966.899,"endTime":1970.489,"body":"Anyway, maybe this is a Silicon"},{"startTime":1966.899,"endTime":1970.489,"body":"Valley, like a return to sanity or"},{"startTime":1970.489,"endTime":1973.299,"body":"the way the rest of the world has"},{"startTime":1970.489,"endTime":1973.299,"body":"been working, but I don't know."},{"startTime":1973.309,"endTime":1975.539,"body":"Well, let's, let's see what happens now."},{"startTime":1975.559,"endTime":1978.509,"body":"And I think even this kind of"},{"startTime":1975.559,"endTime":1978.509,"body":"freaks people out because people"},{"startTime":1978.509,"endTime":1982.319,"body":"like their lanes, they like to know"},{"startTime":1978.509,"endTime":1982.319,"body":"products, excellent product stuff."},{"startTime":1982.319,"endTime":1983.539,"body":"So they're going to product things."},{"startTime":1983.539,"endTime":1986.559,"body":"And design is great at design stuff"},{"startTime":1983.539,"endTime":1986.559,"body":"and they're going to design things."},{"startTime":1986.979,"endTime":1989.479,"body":"And it gets really uncomfortable where"},{"startTime":1986.979,"endTime":1989.479,"body":"you say, well, probably it can do."},{"startTime":1989.729,"endTime":1993.279,"body":"Bang up job at design and design"},{"startTime":1989.729,"endTime":1993.279,"body":"actually knows how to push"},{"startTime":1993.279,"endTime":1995.319,"body":"react code and engineering."},{"startTime":1995.319,"endTime":1997.319,"body":"Could you please just"},{"startTime":1995.319,"endTime":1997.319,"body":"write a PRD yourself?"},{"startTime":1997.319,"endTime":1998.619,"body":"You know what we need to do."},{"startTime":1999.049,"endTime":2001.679,"body":"And so I think this already"},{"startTime":1999.049,"endTime":2001.679,"body":"freaks people out, but this,"},{"startTime":2001.929,"endTime":2003.629,"body":"this really freaks people out."},{"startTime":2003.639,"endTime":2005.859,"body":"So this is what I think is"},{"startTime":2003.639,"endTime":2005.859,"body":"coming for us very soon."},{"startTime":2005.859,"endTime":2009.499,"body":"I think you're going to see what I"},{"startTime":2005.859,"endTime":2009.499,"body":"would call an AI power triple threat."},{"startTime":2009.839,"endTime":2010.879,"body":"Basically."},{"startTime":2011.129,"endTime":2014.539,"body":"She just keeps sprinkling in AI when"},{"startTime":2011.129,"endTime":2014.539,"body":"it's like not necessary, like every"},{"startTime":2014.539,"endTime":2019.379,"body":"one of these people can use AI and"},{"startTime":2014.539,"endTime":2019.379,"body":"also like Marty Cagan pioneered this in"},{"startTime":2019.599,"endTime":2022.229,"body":"Inspired he named it fully durable teams."},{"startTime":2022.579,"endTime":2025.429,"body":"So you your team should have all these"},{"startTime":2022.579,"endTime":2025.429,"body":"three people on them It's not like that"},{"startTime":2025.599,"endTime":2029.149,"body":"not your company has these three people"},{"startTime":2025.599,"endTime":2029.149,"body":"or groups of these three people It's"},{"startTime":2029.429,"endTime":2032.419,"body":"on the team stuff hands off off to the"},{"startTime":2029.429,"endTime":2032.419,"body":"other ones when you need their expertise."},{"startTime":2032.659,"endTime":2037.169,"body":"No, they live on the team And maybe"},{"startTime":2032.659,"endTime":2037.169,"body":"the case here is they should be working"},{"startTime":2037.169,"endTime":2040.269,"body":"together to kind of cross pollinate"},{"startTime":2037.169,"endTime":2040.269,"body":"and teach each other the skills."},{"startTime":2040.269,"endTime":2043.279,"body":"Have I just been working on agile"},{"startTime":2040.269,"endTime":2043.279,"body":"teams too long where I just expect"},{"startTime":2043.519,"endTime":2046.959,"body":"that the team should be teaching"},{"startTime":2043.519,"endTime":2046.959,"body":"each other and it's like, not"},{"startTime":2047.269,"endTime":2048.719,"body":"teaching each other is weird to me."},{"startTime":2048.719,"endTime":2050.079,"body":"Maybe, maybe the rest"},{"startTime":2048.719,"endTime":2050.079,"body":"of the world is like."},{"startTime":2050.329,"endTime":2051.779,"body":"Fully against that."},{"startTime":2051.849,"endTime":2056.369,"body":"I'd like to talk to her more about"},{"startTime":2051.849,"endTime":2056.369,"body":"the, the, the reasons behind that,"},{"startTime":2056.369,"endTime":2059.149,"body":"like what she's experienced in her"},{"startTime":2056.369,"endTime":2059.149,"body":"career, I was going to say, it might"},{"startTime":2059.149,"endTime":2060.359,"body":"be the teams that she's worked on."},{"startTime":2060.429,"endTime":2061.169,"body":"Yeah yeah."},{"startTime":2061.419,"endTime":2061.729,"body":"Okay."},{"startTime":2061.979,"endTime":2067.449,"body":"One person that can do engineering"},{"startTime":2061.979,"endTime":2067.449,"body":"design product as a lead of a team, which"},{"startTime":2067.449,"endTime":2071.119,"body":"includes AI tools, agents, and platforms."},{"startTime":2071.369,"endTime":2072.719,"body":"As part of that team."},{"startTime":2072.749,"endTime":2074.589,"body":"And I think this is what"},{"startTime":2072.749,"endTime":2074.589,"body":"we're going to hire for."},{"startTime":2074.589,"endTime":2078.289,"body":"And what's really interesting is"},{"startTime":2074.589,"endTime":2078.289,"body":"they may spike in engineering."},{"startTime":2078.299,"endTime":2080.149,"body":"They may spike in classic"},{"startTime":2078.299,"endTime":2080.149,"body":"product management."},{"startTime":2080.159,"endTime":2084.239,"body":"They may spike in design, but they're"},{"startTime":2080.159,"endTime":2084.239,"body":"going to need to know how to do it all."},{"startTime":2084.239,"endTime":2085.299,"body":"And that triad goes away."},{"startTime":2085.299,"endTime":2088.899,"body":"And what I think is really interesting"},{"startTime":2085.299,"endTime":2088.899,"body":"about the triad going away is I think"},{"startTime":2088.949,"endTime":2092.799,"body":"we all believe that small teams can"},{"startTime":2088.949,"endTime":2092.799,"body":"generally move faster than big teams."},{"startTime":2093.279,"endTime":2096.489,"body":"I kind of believe individuals"},{"startTime":2093.279,"endTime":2096.489,"body":"can move faster than small teams."},{"startTime":2096.779,"endTime":2099.709,"body":"And so this is kind of an, well,"},{"startTime":2096.779,"endTime":2099.709,"body":"that's, that's a hundred percent true."},{"startTime":2099.989,"endTime":2100.469,"body":"I'll tell you right now."},{"startTime":2100.839,"endTime":2101.379,"body":"Absolutely."},{"startTime":2101.439,"endTime":2103.549,"body":"That's the Chinese proverb."},{"startTime":2103.589,"endTime":2104.999,"body":"Like if you want to go fast, go alone."},{"startTime":2105.009,"endTime":2107.169,"body":"Like here's, I'll tell you"},{"startTime":2105.009,"endTime":2107.169,"body":"how that breaks out though."},{"startTime":2107.169,"endTime":2110.399,"body":"Is that you on your small team,"},{"startTime":2107.169,"endTime":2110.399,"body":"you you produce a bunch of"},{"startTime":2110.409,"endTime":2112.429,"body":"garbage code through chat GPT."},{"startTime":2112.689,"endTime":2116.619,"body":"And what ends up happening is you need"},{"startTime":2112.689,"endTime":2116.619,"body":"to call on development to do debugging."},{"startTime":2116.629,"endTime":2120.679,"body":"So your, your developers become less"},{"startTime":2116.629,"endTime":2120.679,"body":"peers writing code and they become like."},{"startTime":2121.004,"endTime":2124.484,"body":"Coders, or actually they're not even"},{"startTime":2121.004,"endTime":2124.484,"body":"coders anymore, they're debuggers."},{"startTime":2124.804,"endTime":2127.564,"body":"So you check your stuff in"},{"startTime":2124.804,"endTime":2127.564,"body":"and then the debuggers in"},{"startTime":2127.564,"endTime":2129.654,"body":"India will debug it overnight."},{"startTime":2129.664,"endTime":2131.534,"body":"And then, you know what I"},{"startTime":2129.664,"endTime":2131.534,"body":"mean, like that, that's, that's"},{"startTime":2131.534,"endTime":2132.784,"body":"what this actually leads to."},{"startTime":2132.864,"endTime":2135.064,"body":"That's exactly right, but"},{"startTime":2132.864,"endTime":2135.064,"body":"the debuggers are cheap."},{"startTime":2135.444,"endTime":2138.894,"body":"She hasn't implemented this, but she she's"},{"startTime":2135.444,"endTime":2138.894,"body":"throwing it out of like buy my product."},{"startTime":2138.894,"endTime":2141.344,"body":"It's AI enabled everything, hype,"},{"startTime":2138.894,"endTime":2141.344,"body":"hype, hype , I've seen this."},{"startTime":2141.594,"endTime":2145.764,"body":"As a real concept of like, well, Jerry"},{"startTime":2141.594,"endTime":2145.764,"body":"knows how to write code well enough."},{"startTime":2145.764,"endTime":2151.224,"body":"Cause he did it in Java eight years ago,"},{"startTime":2145.764,"endTime":2151.224,"body":"and now he can build react interfaces with"},{"startTime":2151.224,"endTime":2152.654,"body":"some other what are you talking about?"},{"startTime":2152.884,"endTime":2153.384,"body":"What are you talking about?"},{"startTime":2153.384,"endTime":2154.704,"body":"Jerry, get out of here, Jerry."},{"startTime":2154.934,"endTime":2155.704,"body":"She's just yeah."},{"startTime":2155.704,"endTime":2157.964,"body":"So she's obviously painting"},{"startTime":2155.704,"endTime":2157.964,"body":"the promise for that tool."},{"startTime":2158.044,"endTime":2159.634,"body":"Yeah, yeah, it's great."},{"startTime":2159.664,"endTime":2159.684,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":2159.774,"endTime":2161.044,"body":"AI enabled agents."},{"startTime":2161.134,"endTime":2163.544,"body":"Yeah, talk to Eric Schmidt because"},{"startTime":2161.134,"endTime":2163.544,"body":"he was all about he's like, oh the"},{"startTime":2163.544,"endTime":2166.724,"body":"problem with AI is not That the"},{"startTime":2163.544,"endTime":2166.724,"body":"models are not kind of plateauing."},{"startTime":2166.754,"endTime":2169.139,"body":"The problem is we're not we're"},{"startTime":2166.754,"endTime":2169.139,"body":"not We're not putting enough"},{"startTime":2169.159,"endTime":2170.339,"body":"energy and money into it."},{"startTime":2170.339,"endTime":2170.999,"body":"That's the problem."},{"startTime":2170.999,"endTime":2172.139,"body":"Give me more money."},{"startTime":2175.169,"endTime":2179.529,"body":"exercise and thinking how fast can"},{"startTime":2175.169,"endTime":2179.529,"body":"opinionated product leadership in"},{"startTime":2179.529,"endTime":2182.969,"body":"a small team, move things forward,"},{"startTime":2179.529,"endTime":2182.969,"body":"given the tools that they need."},{"startTime":2183.219,"endTime":2185.119,"body":"And then actually, I think"},{"startTime":2183.219,"endTime":2185.119,"body":"it's like maybe everything."},{"startTime":2185.119,"endTime":2186.609,"body":"So you saw those guys"},{"startTime":2185.119,"endTime":2186.609,"body":"hiding in the corner."},{"startTime":2186.609,"endTime":2191.229,"body":"I mean, like who knows what we're going"},{"startTime":2186.609,"endTime":2191.229,"body":"to pull into this vortex of this new role."},{"startTime":2191.604,"endTime":2194.914,"body":"But I do think product managers"},{"startTime":2191.604,"endTime":2194.914,"body":"are also going to be expected to"},{"startTime":2194.914,"endTime":2196.374,"body":"be more commercially oriented."},{"startTime":2196.664,"endTime":2200.234,"body":"Think about marketing"},{"startTime":2196.664,"endTime":2200.234,"body":"more, use tools for data."},{"startTime":2200.234,"endTime":2203.904,"body":"And so maybe actually we're both"},{"startTime":2200.234,"endTime":2203.904,"body":"dead and reanimated as everything."},{"startTime":2204.154,"endTime":2207.884,"body":"And it's scary people don't like this"},{"startTime":2204.154,"endTime":2207.884,"body":"they don't like it but it doesn't"},{"startTime":2208.274,"endTime":2209.874,"body":"yeah, of course They don't like it."},{"startTime":2209.874,"endTime":2213.084,"body":"It sounds like you're a one man company"},{"startTime":2209.874,"endTime":2213.084,"body":"like doing literally everything yourself."},{"startTime":2213.154,"endTime":2215.434,"body":"Of course, you don't like"},{"startTime":2213.154,"endTime":2215.434,"body":"it It sounds ridiculous."},{"startTime":2215.804,"endTime":2216.234,"body":"I agree."},{"startTime":2216.274,"endTime":2218.024,"body":"She finally mentioned marketing."},{"startTime":2218.024,"endTime":2220.134,"body":"So at this late in the podcast."},{"startTime":2220.204,"endTime":2225.084,"body":"Yeah interesting All right have to be"},{"startTime":2220.204,"endTime":2225.084,"body":"scary I you know, I have a friend that"},{"startTime":2225.084,"endTime":2227.954,"body":"said said this the other day I thought"},{"startTime":2225.084,"endTime":2227.954,"body":"it was really interesting The only people"},{"startTime":2227.964,"endTime":2231.194,"body":"that need to be worried are the people"},{"startTime":2227.964,"endTime":2231.194,"body":"acting like they don't need to be worried"},{"startTime":2231.204,"endTime":2234.919,"body":"which is If you can imagine this future"},{"startTime":2231.204,"endTime":2234.919,"body":"and you say Claire's up here trying to"},{"startTime":2234.919,"endTime":2239.399,"body":"give a talk that people tweet out, but"},{"startTime":2234.919,"endTime":2239.399,"body":"I buy into her fundamental thesis that"},{"startTime":2239.399,"endTime":2241.189,"body":"things are going to change dramatically."},{"startTime":2241.659,"endTime":2245.909,"body":"Think about how that changes for you,"},{"startTime":2241.659,"endTime":2245.909,"body":"prepare yourself, prepare your team,"},{"startTime":2246.289,"endTime":2251.059,"body":"change in advance and make them as"},{"startTime":2246.289,"endTime":2251.059,"body":"you need to do to be awesome in this"},{"startTime":2251.059,"endTime":2253.019,"body":"new era, as opposed to obsolete."},{"startTime":2253.019,"endTime":2255.349,"body":"The only people, that need to be"},{"startTime":2253.019,"endTime":2255.349,"body":"worried are the people that are not"},{"startTime":2255.349,"endTime":2257.379,"body":"worried about it, except the people"},{"startTime":2255.349,"endTime":2257.379,"body":"that are not worried about it."},{"startTime":2257.629,"endTime":2260.709,"body":"Are the people that have been on"},{"startTime":2257.629,"endTime":2260.709,"body":"this hype train before many, many"},{"startTime":2260.709,"endTime":2263.659,"body":"times over and have all the actual"},{"startTime":2260.709,"endTime":2263.659,"body":"skills that she's talking about."},{"startTime":2263.659,"endTime":2264.559,"body":"That's why they're not worried."},{"startTime":2264.599,"endTime":2267.319,"body":"The problem with those people is"},{"startTime":2264.599,"endTime":2267.319,"body":"they'll never show up at your Silicon"},{"startTime":2267.319,"endTime":2269.919,"body":"Valley companies because you never"},{"startTime":2267.319,"endTime":2269.919,"body":"hire anyone over 40 years old."},{"startTime":2269.929,"endTime":2270.569,"body":"So that's right."},{"startTime":2270.639,"endTime":2272.079,"body":"Oh man, that's so much true."},{"startTime":2272.159,"endTime":2275.719,"body":"Now, what you are looking for is"},{"startTime":2272.159,"endTime":2275.719,"body":"this mid 20 year old professional"},{"startTime":2275.899,"endTime":2278.379,"body":"who you're going to hire, who doesn't"},{"startTime":2275.899,"endTime":2278.379,"body":"actually have any of these skills."},{"startTime":2278.659,"endTime":2281.759,"body":"But you're going to put them in the role"},{"startTime":2278.659,"endTime":2281.759,"body":"where they're creating code using AI"},{"startTime":2281.759,"endTime":2285.979,"body":"agents, pushing stuff out and expecting"},{"startTime":2281.759,"endTime":2285.979,"body":"because they're in the position that they"},{"startTime":2285.979,"endTime":2287.179,"body":"will deliver, that they will deliver."},{"startTime":2287.459,"endTime":2288.559,"body":"That'll be gone in a year."},{"startTime":2288.609,"endTime":2292.439,"body":"And so I think about this, AI will"},{"startTime":2288.609,"endTime":2292.439,"body":"never do this thing is super naive."},{"startTime":2292.689,"endTime":2297.579,"body":"But AI can help me do anything is really"},{"startTime":2292.689,"endTime":2297.579,"body":"inspiring and it gets me amped up about"},{"startTime":2297.579,"endTime":2301.299,"body":"how we've gotten some nods Gets me"},{"startTime":2297.579,"endTime":2301.299,"body":"really amped up about what is possible"},{"startTime":2301.299,"endTime":2304.659,"body":"to build and put in the market and create"},{"startTime":2301.299,"endTime":2304.659,"body":"and I just think that's so thrilling"},{"startTime":2304.909,"endTime":2305.179,"body":"okay."},{"startTime":2305.179,"endTime":2308.329,"body":"And then this is the last"},{"startTime":2305.179,"endTime":2308.329,"body":"part, which is product leaders."},{"startTime":2308.579,"endTime":2309.529,"body":"AI is coming for you too."},{"startTime":2309.529,"endTime":2310.219,"body":"So you're like, yeah, yeah."},{"startTime":2310.219,"endTime":2311.019,"body":"Product managers."},{"startTime":2311.019,"endTime":2313.489,"body":"Let's just get them to do a whole"},{"startTime":2311.019,"endTime":2313.489,"body":"bunch more stuff with less headcount."},{"startTime":2313.499,"endTime":2314.479,"body":"That sounds great."},{"startTime":2314.769,"endTime":2315.269,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":2315.269,"endTime":2319.139,"body":"And then all the SaaS providers are like,"},{"startTime":2315.269,"endTime":2319.139,"body":"yeah, AI agents, my tools, your solution."},{"startTime":2319.139,"endTime":2319.659,"body":"They love it."},{"startTime":2319.909,"endTime":2321.259,"body":"But it's never coming for us, right?"},{"startTime":2321.269,"endTime":2323.659,"body":"There's never going to be an AI CPO."},{"startTime":2323.679,"endTime":2324.429,"body":"No, no, no."},{"startTime":2324.679,"endTime":2325.759,"body":"It's coming for you too."},{"startTime":2325.759,"endTime":2328.519,"body":"And I think we all need to be"},{"startTime":2325.759,"endTime":2328.519,"body":"really prepared for this change."},{"startTime":2328.519,"endTime":2330.509,"body":"And so first thing is we"},{"startTime":2328.519,"endTime":2330.509,"body":"need to be prepared to manage"},{"startTime":2330.509,"endTime":2331.839,"body":"whatever the hell this thing is."},{"startTime":2332.309,"endTime":2335.989,"body":"I mean, this is totally different"},{"startTime":2332.309,"endTime":2335.989,"body":"than what most of us are thinking"},{"startTime":2335.989,"endTime":2338.449,"body":"about in terms of what our teams are."},{"startTime":2338.449,"endTime":2340.239,"body":"And I think this means"},{"startTime":2338.449,"endTime":2340.239,"body":"that we have to get more."},{"startTime":2340.549,"endTime":2343.279,"body":"She's showing the overlapping of"},{"startTime":2340.549,"endTime":2343.279,"body":"all the different disciplines where"},{"startTime":2343.279,"endTime":2344.429,"body":"they all should be on one team."},{"startTime":2344.429,"endTime":2346.919,"body":"And she's driving towards"},{"startTime":2344.429,"endTime":2346.919,"body":"one person's doing it."},{"startTime":2346.969,"endTime":2349.639,"body":"Even if they're AI assist"},{"startTime":2346.969,"endTime":2349.639,"body":"enabled, one person's doing it."},{"startTime":2349.669,"endTime":2352.184,"body":"It's, It's not a lot different"},{"startTime":2349.669,"endTime":2352.184,"body":"than what happens now."},{"startTime":2352.194,"endTime":2355.874,"body":"So it's commercial skills in our teams,"},{"startTime":2352.194,"endTime":2355.874,"body":"especially for my friends out there in"},{"startTime":2355.874,"endTime":2358.774,"body":"B2B enterprise, more technical skills."},{"startTime":2358.784,"endTime":2361.394,"body":"We are going to be expected"},{"startTime":2358.784,"endTime":2361.394,"body":"to manage people who code."},{"startTime":2361.444,"endTime":2362.634,"body":"I'm a CPTO."},{"startTime":2362.634,"endTime":2364.314,"body":"Basically, it's already happening."},{"startTime":2364.314,"endTime":2367.124,"body":"I'm seeing more and more of us that"},{"startTime":2364.314,"endTime":2367.124,"body":"are bringing these functions together."},{"startTime":2367.474,"endTime":2370.334,"body":"When more and more of the individuals"},{"startTime":2367.474,"endTime":2370.334,"body":"have shared, shared skills, you're gonna"},{"startTime":2370.334,"endTime":2372.594,"body":"have to think about how you manage that."},{"startTime":2372.844,"endTime":2376.114,"body":"You're going to have to think about"},{"startTime":2372.844,"endTime":2376.114,"body":"budgeting for headcount versus"},{"startTime":2376.124,"endTime":2380.054,"body":"budgeting for agents and tools and how"},{"startTime":2376.124,"endTime":2380.054,"body":"that changes how you think about the"},{"startTime":2380.054,"endTime":2382.074,"body":"investment in R\u0026 D that you're making."},{"startTime":2382.324,"endTime":2383.934,"body":"Is that a different way of thinking?"},{"startTime":2384.204,"endTime":2386.634,"body":"Budgeting for headcount, isn't"},{"startTime":2384.204,"endTime":2386.634,"body":"that how we always budget?"},{"startTime":2386.694,"endTime":2391.164,"body":"Yeah, but well, budgeting for head"},{"startTime":2386.694,"endTime":2391.164,"body":"count versus budgeting for tools it's"},{"startTime":2391.164,"endTime":2393.724,"body":"just called budgeting and it doesn't"},{"startTime":2391.164,"endTime":2393.724,"body":"matter if you're like, Oh, I need"},{"startTime":2393.724,"endTime":2395.554,"body":"this much to support servers on AWS."},{"startTime":2395.554,"endTime":2399.334,"body":"So this budget goes to pay for AWS versus"},{"startTime":2395.554,"endTime":2399.334,"body":"this budget goes to pay for people."},{"startTime":2399.344,"endTime":2401.734,"body":"I don't think that that's"},{"startTime":2399.344,"endTime":2401.734,"body":"different line items."},{"startTime":2401.974,"endTime":2405.564,"body":"Also I'm trying to keep this podcast"},{"startTime":2401.974,"endTime":2405.564,"body":"short and to the point, failed."},{"startTime":2405.824,"endTime":2409.864,"body":"And I don't want to get into the"},{"startTime":2405.824,"endTime":2409.864,"body":"comment where chief technology and"},{"startTime":2410.074,"endTime":2412.204,"body":"product together under one banner."},{"startTime":2412.204,"endTime":2415.344,"body":"Something I don't know, something"},{"startTime":2412.204,"endTime":2415.344,"body":"doesn't pass a sniff test about"},{"startTime":2415.344,"endTime":2417.654,"body":"that one and I want to dig into it,"},{"startTime":2415.344,"endTime":2417.654,"body":"but I don't want to dig into it."},{"startTime":2417.654,"endTime":2418.714,"body":"Let's save it for another one."},{"startTime":2418.844,"endTime":2418.944,"body":"Alright."},{"startTime":2418.964,"endTime":2419.204,"body":"Yep."},{"startTime":2419.454,"endTime":2421.954,"body":"And then I'm saying we're going"},{"startTime":2419.454,"endTime":2421.954,"body":"to have these artisanal each crack"},{"startTime":2422.434,"endTime":2425.894,"body":"because like it's sorry I said I"},{"startTime":2422.434,"endTime":2425.894,"body":"wasn't gonna do it Because this this"},{"startTime":2425.894,"endTime":2427.084,"body":"person has never been a developer"},{"startTime":2427.489,"endTime":2432.279,"body":"So it, it's, it says it's easy to develop"},{"startTime":2427.489,"endTime":2432.279,"body":"using these tools, which I've heard."},{"startTime":2432.289,"endTime":2434.559,"body":"It's easy to develop from a lot"},{"startTime":2432.289,"endTime":2434.559,"body":"of people in my career who've"},{"startTime":2434.579,"endTime":2435.779,"body":"never, never been developers."},{"startTime":2435.789,"endTime":2438.069,"body":"Actually, you know what else I've"},{"startTime":2435.789,"endTime":2438.069,"body":"heard from people in my career?"},{"startTime":2438.069,"endTime":2440.769,"body":"Like QA is just checking,"},{"startTime":2438.069,"endTime":2440.769,"body":"checking boxes, right?"},{"startTime":2440.769,"endTime":2441.509,"body":"Just checking features."},{"startTime":2441.509,"endTime":2442.429,"body":"That's all QA is."},{"startTime":2442.899,"endTime":2444.049,"body":"So anybody can do that."},{"startTime":2444.069,"endTime":2446.039,"body":"I don't need, I don't need"},{"startTime":2444.069,"endTime":2446.039,"body":"talented professionals."},{"startTime":2446.039,"endTime":2447.629,"body":"I can just get anybody to do that."},{"startTime":2447.969,"endTime":2449.959,"body":"Why would I need experience?"},{"startTime":2450.239,"endTime":2452.469,"body":"And automation engineers are"},{"startTime":2450.239,"endTime":2452.469,"body":"completely different than QA."},{"startTime":2452.499,"endTime":2453.439,"body":"They don't need QA."},{"startTime":2453.759,"endTime":2456.049,"body":"Experience to do QA automation, right?"},{"startTime":2456.329,"endTime":2461.189,"body":"I've heard a lot of real not well thought"},{"startTime":2456.329,"endTime":2461.189,"body":"out crafted arguments in my career maybe"},{"startTime":2461.189,"endTime":2464.159,"body":"we'll tackle that one on a future podcast"},{"startTime":2461.189,"endTime":2464.159,"body":". I don't think people want to hear me"},{"startTime":2464.159,"endTime":2468.759,"body":"rant for 45 minutes about Ridiculousness"},{"startTime":2468.759,"endTime":2472.529,"body":"crafted team topologies, which"},{"startTime":2468.759,"endTime":2472.529,"body":"is basically like the team"},{"startTime":2472.529,"endTime":2475.309,"body":"is going to be built for the"},{"startTime":2472.529,"endTime":2475.309,"body":"thing that needs to get done."},{"startTime":2475.319,"endTime":2479.189,"body":"We can't all be prescriptive"},{"startTime":2475.319,"endTime":2479.189,"body":"about the triad is the only"},{"startTime":2479.189,"endTime":2480.159,"body":"way to get something done."},{"startTime":2480.209,"endTime":2482.939,"body":"I say, but organized around"},{"startTime":2480.209,"endTime":2482.939,"body":"motivated individuals."},{"startTime":2483.239,"endTime":2487.169,"body":"If somebody comes in with this"},{"startTime":2483.239,"endTime":2487.169,"body":"globule shape of skills, I'm going"},{"startTime":2487.169,"endTime":2488.259,"body":"to want to build a team around them."},{"startTime":2488.259,"endTime":2491.439,"body":"It was somebody spikes on product"},{"startTime":2488.259,"endTime":2491.439,"body":"and I need that skill on a team."},{"startTime":2491.439,"endTime":2492.709,"body":"I'm going to build that team around them."},{"startTime":2493.154,"endTime":2496.334,"body":"And we're going to have to get"},{"startTime":2493.154,"endTime":2496.334,"body":"really creative with how we design"},{"startTime":2496.354,"endTime":2498.444,"body":"teams in order to be successful."},{"startTime":2498.944,"endTime":2501.664,"body":"The other thing I would think about"},{"startTime":2498.944,"endTime":2501.664,"body":"is your experience and your strategy."},{"startTime":2501.664,"endTime":2504.164,"body":"Remember my minivan story"},{"startTime":2501.664,"endTime":2504.164,"body":"is becoming a commodity."},{"startTime":2504.164,"endTime":2507.994,"body":"So this is a great article in"},{"startTime":2504.164,"endTime":2507.994,"body":"Lenny's newsletter about how close"},{"startTime":2508.034,"endTime":2510.354,"body":"is AI to replacing product managers."},{"startTime":2510.744,"endTime":2513.094,"body":"The punchline here is"},{"startTime":2510.744,"endTime":2513.094,"body":"they had like two visions."},{"startTime":2513.344,"endTime":2514.734,"body":"The AI generated one."},{"startTime":2514.974,"endTime":2519.064,"body":"One because of quality, even"},{"startTime":2514.974,"endTime":2519.064,"body":"though people knew it was AI."},{"startTime":2519.434,"endTime":2523.544,"body":"And so I think just thinking about"},{"startTime":2519.434,"endTime":2523.544,"body":"like how special is all that hard"},{"startTime":2523.574,"endTime":2525.804,"body":"thinking is really important."},{"startTime":2525.874,"endTime":2530.104,"body":"And so I think you need to skill up and"},{"startTime":2525.874,"endTime":2530.104,"body":"build a moat around what you can bring to"},{"startTime":2530.104,"endTime":2534.374,"body":"the table and what you might be able to"},{"startTime":2530.104,"endTime":2534.374,"body":"bring to the table is running and building"},{"startTime":2534.374,"endTime":2536.634,"body":"and scaling these AI powered teams."},{"startTime":2536.884,"endTime":2538.464,"body":"And it's going to happen really fast."},{"startTime":2538.464,"endTime":2539.144,"body":"So start now."},{"startTime":2539.144,"endTime":2543.954,"body":"The reason why I have the dancing"},{"startTime":2539.144,"endTime":2543.954,"body":"bunny emojis is I sat next to the CEO."},{"startTime":2543.984,"endTime":2545.964,"body":"You would have never"},{"startTime":2543.984,"endTime":2545.964,"body":"guessed wasn't from a."},{"startTime":2546.324,"endTime":2550.164,"body":"Fancy tech forward company was"},{"startTime":2546.324,"endTime":2550.164,"body":"sort of like non tech company."},{"startTime":2550.174,"endTime":2551.764,"body":"And he was sitting there and"},{"startTime":2550.174,"endTime":2551.764,"body":"said, what are you doing?"},{"startTime":2551.764,"endTime":2553.604,"body":"He's like, Oh, I'm"},{"startTime":2551.764,"endTime":2553.604,"body":"building my digital twin."},{"startTime":2553.854,"endTime":2557.174,"body":"And I don't let anybody in the"},{"startTime":2553.854,"endTime":2557.174,"body":"company ask me questions till they"},{"startTime":2557.174,"endTime":2558.594,"body":"asked my digital twin a question."},{"startTime":2558.904,"endTime":2561.044,"body":"And I was like, this"},{"startTime":2558.904,"endTime":2561.044,"body":"guy's got a digital twin."},{"startTime":2561.044,"endTime":2562.324,"body":"I don't have a digital twin."},{"startTime":2562.664,"endTime":2567.374,"body":"And so it really made me think it's"},{"startTime":2562.664,"endTime":2567.374,"body":"going to happen fast and I'm even behind."},{"startTime":2567.384,"endTime":2569.034,"body":"So you really need to start now."},{"startTime":2569.284,"endTime":2572.404,"body":"So here's the TLDR on"},{"startTime":2569.284,"endTime":2572.404,"body":"reanimating products."},{"startTime":2572.444,"endTime":2572.664,"body":"I'm sorry."},{"startTime":2573.104,"endTime":2573.844,"body":"I killed it."},{"startTime":2573.854,"endTime":2576.194,"body":"You really need to become"},{"startTime":2573.854,"endTime":2576.194,"body":"an AI powered product team."},{"startTime":2576.194,"endTime":2579.154,"body":"Now, AI is going to"},{"startTime":2576.194,"endTime":2579.154,"body":"collapse the talent stack."},{"startTime":2579.154,"endTime":2581.674,"body":"There are five people here"},{"startTime":2579.154,"endTime":2581.674,"body":"apparently that have already done it."},{"startTime":2581.954,"endTime":2585.404,"body":"But care for your culture, care"},{"startTime":2581.954,"endTime":2585.404,"body":"for your organization, plan"},{"startTime":2585.404,"endTime":2587.454,"body":"accordingly, and it will be fine."},{"startTime":2587.864,"endTime":2589.884,"body":"And then product leaders"},{"startTime":2587.864,"endTime":2589.884,"body":"is coming for you too."},{"startTime":2589.904,"endTime":2593.824,"body":"So join me in thinking what that"},{"startTime":2589.904,"endTime":2593.824,"body":"three to five year future can look"},{"startTime":2593.824,"endTime":2595.804,"body":"like and manifest it in your team."},{"startTime":2596.204,"endTime":2599.924,"body":"And so if I have any advice to you, it's"},{"startTime":2596.204,"endTime":2599.924,"body":"go find those AI powered triple threats."},{"startTime":2600.174,"endTime":2602.314,"body":"Give them power and give them budget."},{"startTime":2602.334,"endTime":2604.364,"body":"I think you'll be really really happy."},{"startTime":2604.424,"endTime":2604.854,"body":"You did."},{"startTime":2605.104,"endTime":2606.214,"body":"Thank you so much."},{"startTime":2606.234,"endTime":2607.294,"body":"I really appreciate it"},{"startTime":2607.544,"endTime":2607.864,"body":"All right."},{"startTime":2607.864,"endTime":2612.204,"body":"I'm gonna turn off the video and"},{"startTime":2607.864,"endTime":2612.204,"body":"Move to what did you learn from that?"},{"startTime":2612.454,"endTime":2617.394,"body":"besides besides the age old We're"},{"startTime":2612.454,"endTime":2617.394,"body":"going to do more with less people."},{"startTime":2617.644,"endTime":2621.024,"body":"I learned that a product person"},{"startTime":2617.644,"endTime":2621.024,"body":"can do everything as long as they"},{"startTime":2621.024,"endTime":2623.054,"body":"have the right AI powered tool set."},{"startTime":2623.134,"endTime":2626.834,"body":"And I also learned of one such"},{"startTime":2623.134,"endTime":2626.834,"body":"tool set that she mentioned."},{"startTime":2627.084,"endTime":2629.095,"body":"The one that she basically, yeah."},{"startTime":2629.095,"endTime":2629.691,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":2629.691,"endTime":2634.874,"body":"So some of the thinking behind"},{"startTime":2629.691,"endTime":2634.874,"body":"this is already out there."},{"startTime":2634.874,"endTime":2637.754,"body":"This is not, this is not"},{"startTime":2634.874,"endTime":2637.754,"body":"revolutionary for me."},{"startTime":2638.004,"endTime":2641.984,"body":"I could even say, to a large degree,"},{"startTime":2638.004,"endTime":2641.984,"body":"this is not evolutionary either, really."},{"startTime":2641.984,"endTime":2645.524,"body":"I mean, were teams built for a"},{"startTime":2641.984,"endTime":2645.524,"body":"purpose, right, for the product?"},{"startTime":2645.704,"endTime":2646.334,"body":"That's not new."},{"startTime":2646.804,"endTime":2647.974,"body":"That's been around for a long time."},{"startTime":2648.314,"endTime":2652.574,"body":"What I think I did learn that was"},{"startTime":2648.314,"endTime":2652.574,"body":"new for me here is product people"},{"startTime":2652.614,"endTime":2658.894,"body":"really need to get up to speed with"},{"startTime":2652.614,"endTime":2658.894,"body":"AI using AI to their benefit, right?"},{"startTime":2659.194,"endTime":2660.634,"body":"But then that applies to everybody."},{"startTime":2660.874,"endTime":2663.064,"body":"She is in product space, so"},{"startTime":2660.874,"endTime":2663.064,"body":"she's talking about that."},{"startTime":2663.434,"endTime":2664.044,"body":"Fair enough."},{"startTime":2664.484,"endTime":2667.244,"body":"I don't know if it needed to be"},{"startTime":2664.484,"endTime":2667.244,"body":"a whole, however long that was."},{"startTime":2667.254,"endTime":2667.844,"body":"20 minutes."},{"startTime":2667.864,"endTime":2668.504,"body":"20 minutes."},{"startTime":2668.674,"endTime":2671.734,"body":"So that, that message could have"},{"startTime":2668.674,"endTime":2671.734,"body":"been delivered much quicker."},{"startTime":2671.884,"endTime":2672.764,"body":"But that's what I learned."},{"startTime":2673.014,"endTime":2675.554,"body":"I'm sorry, I completely spaced"},{"startTime":2673.014,"endTime":2675.554,"body":"on what you learned out of that."},{"startTime":2675.554,"endTime":2678.804,"body":"Listen, listen, what I learned is"},{"startTime":2675.554,"endTime":2678.804,"body":"you can fire everybody and just have"},{"startTime":2678.804,"endTime":2680.204,"body":"product people doing everything."},{"startTime":2680.224,"endTime":2680.574,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":2680.584,"endTime":2680.864,"body":"Okay?"},{"startTime":2680.904,"endTime":2681.294,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":2681.314,"endTime":2682.414,"body":"Build the software."},{"startTime":2682.819,"endTime":2685.099,"body":"Do the recon beforehand."},{"startTime":2685.149,"endTime":2689.079,"body":"They weren't, they weren't product people"},{"startTime":2685.149,"endTime":2689.079,"body":"because they, she went and got a developer"},{"startTime":2689.079,"endTime":2690.469,"body":"that was working in marketing somehow."},{"startTime":2690.519,"endTime":2694.299,"body":"So I I learned that Wow, i'm"},{"startTime":2690.519,"endTime":2694.299,"body":"so far ahead of silicon valley"},{"startTime":2694.549,"endTime":2695.969,"body":"Yes, there is that too, right?"},{"startTime":2696.289,"endTime":2699.349,"body":"So amazing things happen in"},{"startTime":2696.289,"endTime":2699.349,"body":"silicon valley I mean, it really"},{"startTime":2699.349,"endTime":2700.329,"body":"makes me call on a question."},{"startTime":2700.329,"endTime":2704.409,"body":"These folks that are out there kind of"},{"startTime":2700.329,"endTime":2704.409,"body":"you know Instagramming product management,"},{"startTime":2704.469,"endTime":2709.199,"body":"to the world, and trying to be the face"},{"startTime":2704.469,"endTime":2709.199,"body":"product management wow, man, like amazing"},{"startTime":2709.209,"endTime":2713.299,"body":"like they they You know, they, they think"},{"startTime":2709.209,"endTime":2713.299,"body":"that doing a wireframe yourself is magic."},{"startTime":2713.549,"endTime":2714.669,"body":"Which is crazy."},{"startTime":2714.829,"endTime":2716.249,"body":"It is for a lot of"},{"startTime":2714.829,"endTime":2716.249,"body":"people I imagine, right?"},{"startTime":2716.249,"endTime":2717.039,"body":"It's bold for me."},{"startTime":2717.049,"endTime":2719.429,"body":"They're not technical"},{"startTime":2717.049,"endTime":2719.429,"body":"necessarily enough to do that."},{"startTime":2719.879,"endTime":2722.219,"body":"So, a lot of times people"},{"startTime":2719.879,"endTime":2722.219,"body":"don't do that, right?"},{"startTime":2722.269,"endTime":2724.369,"body":"I don't know of any"},{"startTime":2722.269,"endTime":2724.369,"body":"people that don't do that."},{"startTime":2724.619,"endTime":2728.139,"body":"I know people that can do pretty much"},{"startTime":2724.619,"endTime":2728.139,"body":"as you described, maybe not to the"},{"startTime":2728.139,"endTime":2730.779,"body":"same degree as you because you're"},{"startTime":2728.139,"endTime":2730.779,"body":"technical, but at least come up"},{"startTime":2730.779,"endTime":2732.959,"body":"with first, second sketches, right?"},{"startTime":2732.989,"endTime":2737.399,"body":"And then, then engage somebody who's"},{"startTime":2732.989,"endTime":2737.399,"body":"like a UX person to take it further,"},{"startTime":2737.419,"endTime":2739.119,"body":"or at least a UI person, right?"},{"startTime":2739.619,"endTime":2743.409,"body":"So what she's describing, the"},{"startTime":2739.619,"endTime":2743.409,"body":"current status quo of product"},{"startTime":2743.409,"endTime":2745.279,"body":"management, I don't think that's real."},{"startTime":2745.529,"endTime":2746.889,"body":"Maybe it's real in Silicon Valley."},{"startTime":2746.889,"endTime":2749.239,"body":"Yeah, I was gonna say, I think"},{"startTime":2746.889,"endTime":2749.239,"body":"it's real in Silicon Valley."},{"startTime":2749.239,"endTime":2751.279,"body":"I think that is a very"},{"startTime":2749.239,"endTime":2751.279,"body":"real part of the culture."},{"startTime":2751.329,"endTime":2755.319,"body":"like we mentioned earlier, I mean,"},{"startTime":2751.329,"endTime":2755.319,"body":"Silicon Valley, they want the hot young"},{"startTime":2755.329,"endTime":2757.669,"body":"people coming out of the Ivy Leagues."},{"startTime":2757.919,"endTime":2760.919,"body":"They want to bring them in, and they want"},{"startTime":2757.919,"endTime":2760.919,"body":"them to be independent contributors and"},{"startTime":2760.919,"endTime":2762.269,"body":"what not, and that's just not possible."},{"startTime":2762.519,"endTime":2764.819,"body":"All they can really do is write"},{"startTime":2762.519,"endTime":2764.819,"body":"documents and then go ask somebody"},{"startTime":2764.819,"endTime":2767.659,"body":"who really knows what's going on to"},{"startTime":2764.819,"endTime":2767.659,"body":"implement things and to fix things."},{"startTime":2767.844,"endTime":2770.774,"body":"You know, all the holes in what they're"},{"startTime":2767.844,"endTime":2770.774,"body":"doing and, and, and really the documents"},{"startTime":2770.774,"endTime":2774.044,"body":"they're creating and contributing as"},{"startTime":2770.774,"endTime":2774.044,"body":"PRDs are really not good cause they"},{"startTime":2774.044,"endTime":2776.944,"body":"have no, you're taking it like product"},{"startTime":2774.044,"endTime":2776.944,"body":"management is, is just like being"},{"startTime":2776.944,"endTime":2779.174,"body":"a scrum master or somebody coming"},{"startTime":2776.944,"endTime":2779.174,"body":"out and getting their certification,"},{"startTime":2779.174,"endTime":2780.384,"body":"calling themselves an enterprise coach."},{"startTime":2780.384,"endTime":2781.904,"body":"Like that's just not possible."},{"startTime":2781.904,"endTime":2784.884,"body":"I mean, it's, there is a certain"},{"startTime":2781.904,"endTime":2784.884,"body":"amount of seniority and lived"},{"startTime":2784.884,"endTime":2787.484,"body":"in experience to be really good."},{"startTime":2787.969,"endTime":2790.899,"body":"At that job and Yeah, you can't"},{"startTime":2787.969,"endTime":2790.899,"body":"you can't get you don't have"},{"startTime":2790.899,"endTime":2792.729,"body":"thought that in b schools, right?"},{"startTime":2792.729,"endTime":2796.369,"body":"Yeah, so I agree that that culture"},{"startTime":2792.729,"endTime":2796.369,"body":"is kind of pushing back the culture"},{"startTime":2796.369,"endTime":2798.789,"body":"is kind of grinding and figuring"},{"startTime":2796.369,"endTime":2798.789,"body":"that out And again, you have like"},{"startTime":2798.789,"endTime":2803.119,"body":"the arguing agile 120 with brian with"},{"startTime":2798.789,"endTime":2803.119,"body":"brian chesky You know, the prd was 123."},{"startTime":2803.169,"endTime":2806.959,"body":"I think 120 was brian chesky You have"},{"startTime":2803.169,"endTime":2806.959,"body":"stuff like well like we covered in 120"},{"startTime":2806.959,"endTime":2810.939,"body":"where he's like well these these people"},{"startTime":2806.959,"endTime":2810.939,"body":"all they do is kind of You Push their"},{"startTime":2810.949,"endTime":2814.379,"body":"PRD paper around all day on the desk"},{"startTime":2810.949,"endTime":2814.379,"body":"and you know, I, I don't need that."},{"startTime":2814.389,"endTime":2817.299,"body":"I need people to build a"},{"startTime":2814.389,"endTime":2817.299,"body":"roadmap and create and shepherd"},{"startTime":2817.299,"endTime":2818.499,"body":"along impactful features."},{"startTime":2818.529,"endTime":2820.109,"body":"And these people are"},{"startTime":2818.529,"endTime":2820.109,"body":"incapable of doing it."},{"startTime":2820.109,"endTime":2823.609,"body":"And I'm going to ascribe that to just"},{"startTime":2820.109,"endTime":2823.609,"body":"the professional product management."},{"startTime":2824.049,"endTime":2828.549,"body":"When in reality, this is a"},{"startTime":2824.049,"endTime":2828.549,"body":"culturally created construct"},{"startTime":2828.839,"endTime":2831.159,"body":"localized localized to their area."},{"startTime":2831.199,"endTime":2831.499,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":2831.884,"endTime":2832.574,"body":"Absolutely."},{"startTime":2832.664,"endTime":2833.234,"body":"Interesting."},{"startTime":2833.354,"endTime":2834.654,"body":"So, yeah, this is fun."},{"startTime":2834.654,"endTime":2838.494,"body":"I'd like to follow up in a few months"},{"startTime":2834.654,"endTime":2838.494,"body":"to see like where this product is at"},{"startTime":2838.494,"endTime":2840.874,"body":"and how it's how it's being used, right?"},{"startTime":2840.884,"endTime":2841.664,"body":"Chat PRD."},{"startTime":2841.714,"endTime":2844.544,"body":"Yeah, we will maybe I'll try to"},{"startTime":2841.714,"endTime":2844.544,"body":"sign up and we can play with it"},{"startTime":2844.544,"endTime":2845.794,"body":"and see what it does, you know?"},{"startTime":2846.064,"endTime":2846.374,"body":"Sounds good."},{"startTime":2846.624,"endTime":2847.094,"body":"So don't do it."},{"startTime":2847.224,"endTime":2847.964,"body":"Don't write PRDs."},{"startTime":2847.964,"endTime":2848.614,"body":"That's what we're saying."},{"startTime":2848.614,"endTime":2849.294,"body":"That's a situation."},{"startTime":2849.294,"endTime":2851.534,"body":"Don't write them and start"},{"startTime":2849.294,"endTime":2851.534,"body":"to learn how to code."},{"startTime":2851.784,"endTime":2852.274,"body":"That's right."},{"startTime":2852.274,"endTime":2852.434,"body":"Learn."},{"startTime":2852.634,"endTime":2852.854,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":2852.854,"endTime":2853.844,"body":"Learn and learn to code."},{"startTime":2853.854,"endTime":2855.124,"body":"That's not,  that can't be the message."},{"startTime":2855.124,"endTime":2856.224,"body":"That's not going to fly."},{"startTime":2856.544,"endTime":2860.784,"body":"Well what will fly is every, every like"},{"startTime":2856.544,"endTime":2860.784,"body":"and subscribe helps the podcast out."},{"startTime":2860.784,"endTime":2862.564,"body":"So if you're not already subscribed."},{"startTime":2862.939,"endTime":2863.479,"body":"Please do so."},{"startTime":2863.529,"endTime":2866.569,"body":"Please do so and let us know about"},{"startTime":2863.529,"endTime":2866.569,"body":"other topics you want us to delve into."},{"startTime":2866.569,"endTime":2869.119,"body":"And let us know about other videos"},{"startTime":2866.569,"endTime":2869.119,"body":"out there that we should react to."},{"startTime":2869.199,"endTime":2869.679,"body":"That too."},{"startTime":2869.729,"endTime":2870.309,"body":"Absolutely."},{"startTime":2870.339,"endTime":2873.619,"body":"Because we, we are equal"},{"startTime":2870.339,"endTime":2873.619,"body":"opportunity reactors"}]}