{"version":"1.0.0","segments":[{"startTime":0.0,"endTime":2.719,"body":"om, I wanna talk to you"},{"startTime":0.0,"endTime":2.719,"body":"about communications."},{"startTime":2.73,"endTime":5.349,"body":"We just had a podcast on"},{"startTime":2.73,"endTime":5.349,"body":"crucial conversations."},{"startTime":5.349,"endTime":7.889,"body":"So we're on this run of"},{"startTime":5.349,"endTime":7.889,"body":"talking about communications,"},{"startTime":7.939,"endTime":11.689,"body":"Product management is mainly about, in my"},{"startTime":7.939,"endTime":11.689,"body":"opinion, anyway, this is just my opinion."},{"startTime":11.739,"endTime":12.979,"body":"This is not sponsored by anyone."},{"startTime":12.979,"endTime":17.781,"body":"Nobody's given us money to say"},{"startTime":12.979,"endTime":17.781,"body":"this, especially not Jira, Jira."},{"startTime":21.564,"endTime":22.584,"body":"Welcome back to Arguing Agile."},{"startTime":22.584,"endTime":25.794,"body":"Communication is a big"},{"startTime":22.584,"endTime":25.794,"body":"part of product management."},{"startTime":25.814,"endTime":27.424,"body":"that's really why this came up."},{"startTime":27.754,"endTime":31.074,"body":"Stakeholder communication is such a"},{"startTime":27.754,"endTime":31.074,"body":"huge part of product management and"},{"startTime":31.074,"endTime":37.214,"body":"I thought we'd take a podcast, just"},{"startTime":31.074,"endTime":37.214,"body":"talk about some tactical, tips of how"},{"startTime":37.214,"endTime":41.424,"body":"you can do a better job in stakeholder"},{"startTime":37.214,"endTime":41.424,"body":"management and communication, this will"},{"startTime":41.424,"endTime":44.654,"body":"be slightly different from our other"},{"startTime":41.424,"endTime":44.654,"body":"podcasts in that by the time you finish"},{"startTime":44.654,"endTime":47.964,"body":"listening to this, you'll have some"},{"startTime":44.654,"endTime":47.964,"body":"things that you can implement right away,"},{"startTime":48.064,"endTime":50.114,"body":"like the next morning or the same day"},{"startTime":50.344,"endTime":51.134,"body":"."},{"startTime":50.344,"endTime":51.134,"body":"So that's the hope."},{"startTime":51.194,"endTime":51.854,"body":"Let's dive into this."},{"startTime":51.854,"endTime":52.924,"body":"This is a great topic."},{"startTime":53.004,"endTime":55.454,"body":"So we're going to bound"},{"startTime":53.004,"endTime":55.454,"body":"this one with an article."},{"startTime":55.484,"endTime":57.324,"body":"It's our friend, Roman Pichler."},{"startTime":57.624,"endTime":58.994,"body":"You want to hear a smooth jazz again?"},{"startTime":62.624,"endTime":65.774,"body":"Roman's product management"},{"startTime":62.624,"endTime":65.774,"body":"podcast.. Like he's got to get"},{"startTime":65.804,"endTime":67.104,"body":"that pressure went down already."},{"startTime":67.114,"endTime":70.534,"body":"Thanks for listening now some smooth jazz."},{"startTime":70.834,"endTime":76.434,"body":"So his article begins he says lead the"},{"startTime":70.834,"endTime":76.434,"body":"stakeholders don't please don't dictate."},{"startTime":76.534,"endTime":80.704,"body":"He wrote two articles on stakeholder"},{"startTime":76.534,"endTime":80.704,"body":"management one titled stakeholder"},{"startTime":80.704,"endTime":84.114,"body":"management tips for product"},{"startTime":80.704,"endTime":84.114,"body":"people And then, he updated it."},{"startTime":84.314,"endTime":87.604,"body":"Oh, he wrote it on June 20th, but"},{"startTime":84.314,"endTime":87.604,"body":"he updated it December 6, 2024."},{"startTime":87.604,"endTime":88.164,"body":"Very recently."},{"startTime":88.164,"endTime":88.424,"body":"Okay."},{"startTime":88.734,"endTime":92.974,"body":"The other one that he wrote is"},{"startTime":88.734,"endTime":92.974,"body":"getting stakeholder engagement"},{"startTime":92.974,"endTime":95.994,"body":"right from 17 November 20 2015."},{"startTime":97.464,"endTime":101.064,"body":"I will tell you from a tactical"},{"startTime":97.464,"endTime":101.064,"body":"nitty gritty boots on the ground."},{"startTime":101.164,"endTime":103.294,"body":"I don't know why I'm making up"},{"startTime":101.164,"endTime":103.294,"body":"so many ridiculous euphemisms."},{"startTime":103.584,"endTime":106.604,"body":"From a tactical perspective,"},{"startTime":103.584,"endTime":106.604,"body":"I like this one better."},{"startTime":106.904,"endTime":110.604,"body":"This one being older, it kind of"},{"startTime":106.904,"endTime":110.604,"body":"aligns with the old fashioned,"},{"startTime":110.904,"endTime":116.044,"body":"communication strategy or"},{"startTime":110.904,"endTime":116.044,"body":"communication plan from the project"},{"startTime":116.094,"endTime":118.704,"body":"management field quite well, I think."},{"startTime":118.774,"endTime":123.524,"body":"And in terms of what you adopt day to"},{"startTime":118.774,"endTime":123.524,"body":"day,, there's a lot here for this older"},{"startTime":123.524,"endTime":125.134,"body":"one that you can benefit from, right?"},{"startTime":125.134,"endTime":127.504,"body":"This is getting stakeholder"},{"startTime":125.134,"endTime":127.504,"body":"management getting stakeholder"},{"startTime":127.504,"endTime":131.084,"body":"engagement right, He starts by"},{"startTime":127.504,"endTime":131.084,"body":"saying, identify the stakeholders."},{"startTime":131.414,"endTime":135.554,"body":"A stakeholder is anyone who has a"},{"startTime":131.414,"endTime":135.554,"body":"stake in the product, who is affected"},{"startTime":135.554,"endTime":137.704,"body":"by it, or who shows an interest in it."},{"startTime":138.134,"endTime":141.954,"body":"While this definition includes"},{"startTime":138.134,"endTime":141.954,"body":"customers and users, it's commonly"},{"startTime":141.954,"endTime":144.644,"body":"used to refer to internal stakeholders."},{"startTime":144.944,"endTime":148.334,"body":"Note that some frameworks such as Scrum"},{"startTime":144.944,"endTime":148.334,"body":"have their own stakeholder definition."},{"startTime":148.584,"endTime":152.024,"body":"In Scrum, the stakeholders are"},{"startTime":148.584,"endTime":152.024,"body":"all interested parties apart from"},{"startTime":152.024,"endTime":154.794,"body":"the product owner, the development"},{"startTime":152.024,"endTime":154.794,"body":"team, and the Scrum master."},{"startTime":154.794,"endTime":159.053,"body":"For the purposes of this podcast, I"},{"startTime":154.794,"endTime":159.053,"body":"don't care about the Scrum definition."},{"startTime":159.054,"endTime":163.374,"body":"your job as a product manager is to"},{"startTime":159.054,"endTime":163.374,"body":"take ownership of all the comms, so"},{"startTime":163.374,"endTime":167.284,"body":"I'm, I'm not, I'm not worried about kind"},{"startTime":163.374,"endTime":167.284,"body":"of quibbling over what pools, right?"},{"startTime":167.674,"endTime":171.444,"body":"To identify the stakeholders, ask"},{"startTime":167.674,"endTime":171.444,"body":"yourself who's help you need to develop,"},{"startTime":171.504,"endTime":173.294,"body":"release, and provide the product."},{"startTime":173.404,"endTime":177.574,"body":"The answer to this question will be"},{"startTime":173.404,"endTime":177.574,"body":"specific to your product and company."},{"startTime":177.874,"endTime":180.604,"body":"For a commercial product, the group"},{"startTime":177.874,"endTime":180.604,"body":"is likely to include representatives"},{"startTime":180.604,"endTime":184.504,"body":"from marketing, sales, support, and"},{"startTime":180.604,"endTime":184.504,"body":"management, but it might also comprise"},{"startTime":184.744,"endTime":189.654,"body":"of legal, finance, human resources,"},{"startTime":184.744,"endTime":189.654,"body":"For an in house product, your"},{"startTime":189.654,"endTime":194.364,"body":"stakeholders might be operations the"},{"startTime":189.654,"endTime":194.364,"body":"affected business units and management."},{"startTime":194.664,"endTime":197.934,"body":"So, he's cast a wide net,"},{"startTime":194.664,"endTime":197.934,"body":"it could be a lot of people."},{"startTime":198.314,"endTime":201.944,"body":"He's mainly talking about internal"},{"startTime":198.314,"endTime":201.944,"body":"people here let me flip over to the other"},{"startTime":201.944,"endTime":205.624,"body":"article and see if he includes customers"},{"startTime":201.944,"endTime":205.624,"body":"more prominently in the newer article."},{"startTime":205.924,"endTime":207.774,"body":"Well, in the second"},{"startTime":205.924,"endTime":207.774,"body":"paragraph, he talks about."},{"startTime":208.074,"endTime":212.034,"body":"The first feature you deliver runs"},{"startTime":208.074,"endTime":212.034,"body":"the risk of being a feature broker."},{"startTime":212.384,"endTime":213.324,"body":"poor user experience."},{"startTime":213.374,"endTime":215.914,"body":"How are you going to know it's a"},{"startTime":213.374,"endTime":215.914,"body":"poor user experience unless you're"},{"startTime":215.914,"endTime":217.464,"body":"actually speaking to your customers?"},{"startTime":217.764,"endTime":221.493,"body":"To focus on your stakeholder management"},{"startTime":217.764,"endTime":221.493,"body":"effort, identify your key stakeholders."},{"startTime":221.544,"endTime":225.673,"body":"those individuals with whom you want"},{"startTime":221.544,"endTime":225.673,"body":"to establish, a trustful connection"},{"startTime":225.883,"endTime":227.703,"body":"and collaborate on a regular basis."},{"startTime":227.803,"endTime":230.603,"body":"Maybe go back to the first paragraph,"},{"startTime":227.803,"endTime":230.603,"body":"the second line says, while this"},{"startTime":230.603,"endTime":233.713,"body":"definition includes users and customers."},{"startTime":233.943,"endTime":236.973,"body":"So that's the difference between"},{"startTime":233.943,"endTime":236.973,"body":"this version and the version before."},{"startTime":237.023,"endTime":238.593,"body":"He's added customers to this."},{"startTime":239.058,"endTime":240.258,"body":"Which I think rightfully"},{"startTime":239.058,"endTime":240.258,"body":"belong there, honestly."},{"startTime":240.258,"endTime":241.618,"body":"Okay, yeah, and I agree,."},{"startTime":241.708,"endTime":245.168,"body":"So a handy stakeholder analysis"},{"startTime":241.708,"endTime":245.168,"body":"tool is the Power Interest Grid,"},{"startTime":245.428,"endTime":247.978,"body":"the power interest grid"},{"startTime":245.428,"endTime":247.978,"body":"developed by Ackerman and Eden."},{"startTime":248.378,"endTime":252.028,"body":"I'm going to show on the screen here,"},{"startTime":248.378,"endTime":252.028,"body":"it's got the four stakeholder groups,"},{"startTime":252.078,"endTime":257.548,"body":"players, subjects, context, setters,"},{"startTime":252.078,"endTime":257.548,"body":"and the crowd as shown in the picture."},{"startTime":257.788,"endTime":262.288,"body":"Interest is on the Y axis"},{"startTime":257.788,"endTime":262.288,"body":"and power is on the X axis."},{"startTime":262.638,"endTime":266.248,"body":"so he says identify your stakeholders"},{"startTime":262.638,"endTime":266.248,"body":"and then group them into these"},{"startTime":266.548,"endTime":268.548,"body":"squares and I love a two by two."},{"startTime":268.878,"endTime":269.988,"body":"Everybody loves a quad."},{"startTime":270.438,"endTime":271.018,"body":"Thank you."},{"startTime":271.278,"endTime":272.078,"body":"That's right there."},{"startTime":272.078,"endTime":272.218,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":272.218,"endTime":272.568,"body":"Thank you."},{"startTime":272.568,"endTime":273.778,"body":"Consultants all around the world."},{"startTime":273.838,"endTime":274.908,"body":"we love a quad too, but"},{"startTime":274.908,"endTime":279.498,"body":"also on the podcast today we're going to"},{"startTime":274.908,"endTime":279.498,"body":"use this quad because if you're a product"},{"startTime":279.548,"endTime":282.268,"body":"manager and you come on for the first"},{"startTime":279.548,"endTime":282.268,"body":"time to a company and you don't know"},{"startTime":282.268,"endTime":284.388,"body":"anybody, you don't know their customers."},{"startTime":284.388,"endTime":285.608,"body":"You don't know their internal politics."},{"startTime":285.608,"endTime":288.678,"body":"And of course, because we're"},{"startTime":285.608,"endTime":288.678,"body":"returned to office now and you got"},{"startTime":288.678,"endTime":290.168,"body":"a nice office as a product manager."},{"startTime":290.508,"endTime":294.988,"body":"Let's be honest, you got a cube like"},{"startTime":290.508,"endTime":294.988,"body":"throw this up somewhere and start putting"},{"startTime":294.998,"endTime":298.658,"body":"the stickies on it and start developing"},{"startTime":294.998,"endTime":298.658,"body":"it over time Put it in Miro or whatever"},{"startTime":299.118,"endTime":302.478,"body":"and start compiling the stuff and throw"},{"startTime":299.118,"endTime":302.478,"body":"it on your matrix for your product"},{"startTime":302.478,"endTime":306.508,"body":"so I guess we're now diving straight into"},{"startTime":302.478,"endTime":306.508,"body":"creating something, in this particular"},{"startTime":306.508,"endTime":308.648,"body":"scene, you're brand new to a company."},{"startTime":308.658,"endTime":309.668,"body":"You just arrived here."},{"startTime":310.018,"endTime":311.678,"body":"You don't know who's who, right?"},{"startTime":311.718,"endTime":314.758,"body":"you get invited to these meetings"},{"startTime":311.718,"endTime":314.758,"body":"that suddenly appear on your calendar."},{"startTime":314.798,"endTime":317.068,"body":"You don't know the power brokers."},{"startTime":317.068,"endTime":318.208,"body":"You don't know anybody really."},{"startTime":318.578,"endTime":321.428,"body":"You start right now, but you don't"},{"startTime":318.578,"endTime":321.428,"body":"have the information to start."},{"startTime":321.698,"endTime":323.338,"body":"So two things, right?"},{"startTime":323.358,"endTime":326.058,"body":"One is you can start to"},{"startTime":323.358,"endTime":326.058,"body":"create this on your own."},{"startTime":326.278,"endTime":328.148,"body":"Could be a chicken"},{"startTime":326.278,"endTime":328.148,"body":"scratch on your notepad."},{"startTime":328.178,"endTime":330.188,"body":"Could be a mural Miro,"},{"startTime":328.178,"endTime":330.188,"body":"whatever, doesn't matter."},{"startTime":330.548,"endTime":334.628,"body":"You can build it up as you get to learn"},{"startTime":330.548,"endTime":334.628,"body":"people and their roles, etc.  That"},{"startTime":334.928,"endTime":339.248,"body":"is how I used to do things, but let"},{"startTime":334.928,"endTime":339.248,"body":"me tell you that takes a long time."},{"startTime":339.548,"endTime":342.126,"body":"So instead of that, what can you do?"},{"startTime":342.126,"endTime":346.402,"body":"one of the practical suggestions that"},{"startTime":342.126,"endTime":346.402,"body":"we alluded to earlier that I have is"},{"startTime":346.402,"endTime":350.738,"body":"make your whiteboard Share it with"},{"startTime":346.402,"endTime":350.738,"body":"people make it visible and say who all"},{"startTime":350.738,"endTime":355.798,"body":"has an interest in this space, You're"},{"startTime":350.738,"endTime":355.798,"body":"not segmenting people day one because"},{"startTime":355.798,"endTime":359.008,"body":"you don't even know who they are So"},{"startTime":355.798,"endTime":359.008,"body":"you're just putting up a 2x2 whatever"},{"startTime":359.008,"endTime":362.498,"body":"it is 3x3 doesn't matter Yeah, put"},{"startTime":359.008,"endTime":362.498,"body":"that up there and say to everyone."},{"startTime":362.538,"endTime":367.058,"body":"Hey I'm sharing this with you so"},{"startTime":362.538,"endTime":367.058,"body":"that you can put a sticky with your"},{"startTime":367.058,"endTime":368.948,"body":"name on it in one of these squares."},{"startTime":369.248,"endTime":372.083,"body":"Interesting so you're gonna crowdsource"},{"startTime":369.248,"endTime":372.083,"body":"this, but you're gonna ask the people"},{"startTime":372.133,"endTime":375.793,"body":"that have something to gain or say, right?"},{"startTime":376.203,"endTime":380.043,"body":"But you're not gonna use their"},{"startTime":376.203,"endTime":380.043,"body":"word and say, this is where, 'cause"},{"startTime":380.103,"endTime":383.123,"body":"you'll find that a lot of stickies"},{"startTime":380.103,"endTime":383.123,"body":"will congregate in one square."},{"startTime":383.433,"endTime":386.388,"body":"But, but all I'm saying"},{"startTime":383.433,"endTime":386.388,"body":"is it is a starting point."},{"startTime":386.733,"endTime":390.183,"body":"Right starting point towards what"},{"startTime":386.733,"endTime":390.183,"body":"we're heading to in this podcast"},{"startTime":390.273,"endTime":393.803,"body":"Which is an effective strategy"},{"startTime":390.273,"endTime":393.803,"body":"to deal with communicating out to"},{"startTime":393.803,"endTime":395.153,"body":"your stakeholders and customers."},{"startTime":395.183,"endTime":398.623,"body":"so yeah, why not put it out there"},{"startTime":395.183,"endTime":398.623,"body":"one thing will happen for sure You'll"},{"startTime":398.623,"endTime":401.983,"body":"get to know the names They may say"},{"startTime":398.623,"endTime":401.983,"body":"they're interested in a certain"},{"startTime":401.983,"endTime":403.823,"body":"way, they may be, they may not be."},{"startTime":403.863,"endTime":405.273,"body":"But at least you have a start."},{"startTime":405.623,"endTime":407.583,"body":"You'll jumpstart that exercise."},{"startTime":407.623,"endTime":410.113,"body":"I'm interested in digging, like"},{"startTime":407.623,"endTime":410.113,"body":"this is not really the point of"},{"startTime":410.113,"endTime":413.973,"body":"this podcast, but I'm interested"},{"startTime":410.113,"endTime":413.973,"body":"in picking apart this example."},{"startTime":413.973,"endTime":415.733,"body":"Because like, I can think"},{"startTime":413.973,"endTime":415.733,"body":"of some corporate cultures"},{"startTime":415.733,"endTime":417.173,"body":"where this will not work."},{"startTime":417.173,"endTime":420.743,"body":"Like everyone thinks that"},{"startTime":417.173,"endTime":420.743,"body":"they are high interest."},{"startTime":421.043,"endTime":425.663,"body":"You know, like executives, I'll give"},{"startTime":421.043,"endTime":425.663,"body":"you an example, like an executive in"},{"startTime":425.773,"endTime":431.033,"body":"operations or marketing not somebody"},{"startTime":425.773,"endTime":431.033,"body":"that's in my reporting chain of command,"},{"startTime":431.033,"endTime":435.723,"body":"not somebody who's my hiring manager like"},{"startTime":431.033,"endTime":435.723,"body":"they're, a peer of my hiring manager."},{"startTime":435.723,"endTime":437.833,"body":"So you have a darted line to them."},{"startTime":437.843,"endTime":443.133,"body":", to me, they don't really have high"},{"startTime":437.843,"endTime":443.133,"body":"interest in the individual features"},{"startTime":443.133,"endTime":444.613,"body":"that come out they may be powerful."},{"startTime":444.913,"endTime":450.803,"body":"But they may not see themselves in"},{"startTime":444.913,"endTime":450.803,"body":"the powerful, low interest area."},{"startTime":450.853,"endTime":452.183,"body":"they probably won't, right?"},{"startTime":452.223,"endTime":454.793,"body":"Executives mostly will be like, I"},{"startTime":452.223,"endTime":454.793,"body":"need to be in this square because,"},{"startTime":454.793,"endTime":455.933,"body":"I'm high power, high interest."},{"startTime":455.943,"endTime":458.373,"body":"I need to exert my"},{"startTime":455.943,"endTime":458.373,"body":"influence and peacock away."},{"startTime":458.473,"endTime":460.523,"body":"But that's okay, because"},{"startTime":458.473,"endTime":460.523,"body":"you have a starting point."},{"startTime":460.903,"endTime":463.923,"body":"as you get to learn these people"},{"startTime":460.903,"endTime":463.923,"body":"presumably you're doing other things"},{"startTime":463.923,"endTime":467.243,"body":"in parallel, like holding meetings and"},{"startTime":463.923,"endTime":467.243,"body":"getting to know people, et cetera, right?"},{"startTime":467.293,"endTime":468.613,"body":"Introductions or whatever else."},{"startTime":468.913,"endTime":473.443,"body":"You will soon get to a point  where"},{"startTime":468.913,"endTime":473.443,"body":"you're moving people around on the on"},{"startTime":473.443,"endTime":477.793,"body":"the matrix a lot faster This way, then"},{"startTime":473.443,"endTime":477.793,"body":"the other way, which is just put them"},{"startTime":477.793,"endTime":479.533,"body":"up there as you get to learn about them."},{"startTime":479.883,"endTime":483.673,"body":"Maybe most of these executives"},{"startTime":479.883,"endTime":483.673,"body":"are just in the informed area."},{"startTime":484.043,"endTime":486.073,"body":"But I'm jumping ahead a"},{"startTime":484.043,"endTime":486.073,"body":"bit, but we'll get to that,"},{"startTime":486.243,"endTime":489.543,"body":"I want to put this back on the"},{"startTime":486.243,"endTime":489.543,"body":"screen so people can see the quad."},{"startTime":489.843,"endTime":491.213,"body":"Oh no, I hit the lock button."},{"startTime":491.543,"endTime":492.803,"body":"I don't even know what"},{"startTime":491.543,"endTime":492.803,"body":"the lock button does."},{"startTime":493.153,"endTime":496.683,"body":"So I put the quad up there and  he gives"},{"startTime":493.153,"endTime":496.683,"body":"you the power influence matrix, and"},{"startTime":496.683,"endTime":498.613,"body":"then he walks you through each square."},{"startTime":498.913,"endTime":501.173,"body":"So circle gets a square, so"},{"startTime":498.913,"endTime":501.173,"body":"would you want to start down"},{"startTime":501.173,"endTime":502.933,"body":"here at low interest, low power?"},{"startTime":503.133,"endTime":505.033,"body":"All right, let's start with"},{"startTime":503.133,"endTime":505.033,"body":"low interest, low power."},{"startTime":505.033,"endTime":509.173,"body":"So this is the crowd, the crowd are"},{"startTime":505.033,"endTime":509.173,"body":"stakeholders with low interest and low"},{"startTime":509.173,"endTime":512.693,"body":"power as they are not very interested"},{"startTime":509.173,"endTime":512.693,"body":"in your product and don't have the"},{"startTime":512.693,"endTime":514.483,"body":"power to influence product decisions."},{"startTime":514.653,"endTime":516.653,"body":"The types of people that"},{"startTime":514.653,"endTime":516.653,"body":"would be in this block."},{"startTime":516.653,"endTime":521.393,"body":"Low interest, low power, other product"},{"startTime":516.653,"endTime":521.393,"body":"teams are in this category, believe"},{"startTime":521.393,"endTime":524.303,"body":"it or not, like other product teams"},{"startTime":521.393,"endTime":524.303,"body":"support teams are in this block."},{"startTime":524.533,"endTime":527.923,"body":"The general employees that don't work"},{"startTime":524.533,"endTime":527.923,"body":"in product or , they're at the company."},{"startTime":528.263,"endTime":530.613,"body":"Vendors are in this category."},{"startTime":530.953,"endTime":533.803,"body":"Other departmental managers"},{"startTime":530.953,"endTime":533.803,"body":"are in this category."},{"startTime":533.843,"endTime":538.323,"body":"So basically everybody, who"},{"startTime":533.843,"endTime":538.323,"body":"doesn't necessarily use the product"},{"startTime":538.323,"endTime":540.273,"body":"every day is in this category."},{"startTime":540.493,"endTime":541.153,"body":"I would agree with that."},{"startTime":541.153,"endTime":545.913,"body":"I think the crowd category is the biggest"},{"startTime":541.153,"endTime":545.913,"body":"in terms of the number of people, right?"},{"startTime":545.973,"endTime":549.093,"body":"Well, that would make sense because you"},{"startTime":545.973,"endTime":549.093,"body":"need one way  information to go out there"},{"startTime":549.093,"endTime":551.853,"body":"because otherwise you get overwhelmed"},{"startTime":549.093,"endTime":551.853,"body":"by this category if you didn't."},{"startTime":552.173,"endTime":553.923,"body":"It's , usually sufficient to keep."},{"startTime":554.233,"endTime":558.503,"body":"The individuals informed, for instance,"},{"startTime":554.233,"endTime":558.503,"body":"by giving them access to the products,"},{"startTime":558.583,"endTime":563.263,"body":"wiki , or update them on important"},{"startTime":558.583,"endTime":563.263,"body":"developments in the form of a newsletter,"},{"startTime":563.563,"endTime":568.663,"body":"he has quarterly updates  this is like"},{"startTime":563.563,"endTime":568.663,"body":"10 years old I'm thinking you tell these"},{"startTime":568.663,"endTime":575.343,"body":"folks things when major project milestones"},{"startTime":568.663,"endTime":575.343,"body":"are either planned or accomplished."},{"startTime":575.643,"endTime":580.043,"body":"And in the form of a push update, like"},{"startTime":575.643,"endTime":580.043,"body":"a one way communication update, he says"},{"startTime":580.043,"endTime":583.653,"body":"newsletter, I think the modern version"},{"startTime":580.043,"endTime":583.653,"body":"of newsletter is like a Either a blog"},{"startTime":583.653,"endTime":586.923,"body":"post or like a, a SharePoint site or"},{"startTime":583.653,"endTime":586.923,"body":"a Slack post to a channel that has"},{"startTime":586.923,"endTime":590.433,"body":"a hundred people in it or more, that"},{"startTime":586.923,"endTime":590.433,"body":"kind of  news blast to a large group."},{"startTime":590.433,"endTime":594.243,"body":"Typically something like this you"},{"startTime":590.433,"endTime":594.243,"body":"know, you don't wanna just simply do it"},{"startTime":594.243,"endTime":596.013,"body":"after the event, whatever the event is."},{"startTime":596.013,"endTime":598.333,"body":"Yeah something go that"},{"startTime":596.013,"endTime":598.333,"body":"you're delivering, let's say."},{"startTime":598.763,"endTime":599.323,"body":"It could be a feature."},{"startTime":599.333,"endTime":599.993,"body":"It could be a whole product."},{"startTime":599.993,"endTime":600.473,"body":"It doesn't matter."},{"startTime":600.703,"endTime":604.833,"body":"You want to do it ahead of time say,"},{"startTime":600.703,"endTime":604.833,"body":"90 days out, we're expecting to release"},{"startTime":604.833,"endTime":607.773,"body":"X then 30 days later, say 60 days out."},{"startTime":607.883,"endTime":610.033,"body":"If it's still on track or"},{"startTime":607.883,"endTime":610.033,"body":"not change it, that's fine."},{"startTime":610.403,"endTime":612.523,"body":"30 days prior to the"},{"startTime":610.403,"endTime":612.523,"body":"event, there's another one."},{"startTime":612.823,"endTime":616.253,"body":"And the reason why you do that is"},{"startTime":612.823,"endTime":616.253,"body":"just the same reason why you see those"},{"startTime":616.263,"endTime":617.923,"body":"late night infomercials talk about."},{"startTime":618.353,"endTime":621.923,"body":"The price and the phone number"},{"startTime":618.353,"endTime":621.923,"body":"three times, once the event happens,"},{"startTime":621.993,"endTime":625.123,"body":"at that point, just prior to it"},{"startTime":621.993,"endTime":625.123,"body":"happening, a day before, Hey,"},{"startTime":625.133,"endTime":626.833,"body":"tomorrow we have this thing happening."},{"startTime":627.133,"endTime":628.903,"body":"This is to the crowd, right?"},{"startTime":628.973,"endTime":631.873,"body":"And then, a little while later, you"},{"startTime":628.973,"endTime":631.873,"body":"could say, Here's what's happening."},{"startTime":631.873,"endTime":634.893,"body":"But now, it's not simply a repetition"},{"startTime":631.873,"endTime":634.893,"body":"of what happened in the past."},{"startTime":634.943,"endTime":637.383,"body":"it's also a good thing to"},{"startTime":634.943,"endTime":637.383,"body":"include the impact of that."},{"startTime":637.393,"endTime":638.713,"body":"Okay so here's what happened."},{"startTime":638.853,"endTime":641.653,"body":"And the impact of that"},{"startTime":638.853,"endTime":641.653,"body":"is boom, whatever it is."},{"startTime":641.713,"endTime":642.263,"body":"And that's it."},{"startTime":642.273,"endTime":643.623,"body":"The crowd is now being pleased."},{"startTime":643.643,"endTime":645.763,"body":"Yeah let me take that"},{"startTime":643.643,"endTime":645.763,"body":"into a more tactical room."},{"startTime":645.773,"endTime":651.563,"body":"So as a product manager me and my"},{"startTime":645.773,"endTime":651.563,"body":"team are using these ALM tools, right?"},{"startTime":651.563,"endTime":654.043,"body":"And they're blunt"},{"startTime":651.563,"endTime":654.043,"body":"instruments, the ALM tool."},{"startTime":654.043,"endTime":658.303,"body":"So let's pretend that I use a very"},{"startTime":654.043,"endTime":658.303,"body":"popular ALM tool that everyone uses."},{"startTime":658.663,"endTime":663.763,"body":"Could be a good tool, could be Jira, but"},{"startTime":658.663,"endTime":663.763,"body":"let's pretend I use that system, right?"},{"startTime":664.163,"endTime":668.303,"body":"what would be the points where I would"},{"startTime":664.163,"endTime":668.303,"body":"want to blast something out to my crowd?"},{"startTime":668.653,"endTime":674.283,"body":"Cause I may not have a 30, 60, 90 day,"},{"startTime":668.653,"endTime":674.283,"body":"but what I might know is , when I go"},{"startTime":674.283,"endTime":678.283,"body":"through a refinement and we plan an"},{"startTime":674.283,"endTime":678.283,"body":"epic, for example, and we break down"},{"startTime":678.283,"endTime":681.798,"body":"an epic, so the epic starts to form"},{"startTime":678.283,"endTime":681.798,"body":"like, we can do two, three stories"},{"startTime":681.798,"endTime":683.498,"body":"and we're sure we can do those."},{"startTime":683.788,"endTime":686.588,"body":"And then beyond that, we'll replan"},{"startTime":683.788,"endTime":686.588,"body":"and maybe add some more stories it"},{"startTime":686.588,"endTime":689.498,"body":"might be stories inside of an Epic,"},{"startTime":686.588,"endTime":689.498,"body":"but It's enough for this group to"},{"startTime":689.498,"endTime":693.228,"body":"know we've begun work on this epic and"},{"startTime":693.248,"endTime":694.838,"body":"let's take a step back for a second."},{"startTime":695.138,"endTime":699.458,"body":"I have to assume that you're living in"},{"startTime":695.138,"endTime":699.458,"body":"some kind of sane product development"},{"startTime":699.468,"endTime":705.188,"body":"world where your team works on the highest"},{"startTime":699.468,"endTime":705.188,"body":"priority and you're not split across five"},{"startTime":705.188,"endTime":708.118,"body":"different teams and you're all engaged"},{"startTime":705.188,"endTime":708.118,"body":"in like three different product lines."},{"startTime":708.138,"endTime":709.908,"body":"You're working out of two different"},{"startTime":708.138,"endTime":709.908,"body":"backlogs or something like that."},{"startTime":710.208,"endTime":714.388,"body":"Let's pretend it's me with my team"},{"startTime":710.208,"endTime":714.388,"body":"or maybe two teams working out of my"},{"startTime":714.388,"endTime":716.778,"body":"backlog,  sort of the way that I'm"},{"startTime":714.388,"endTime":716.778,"body":"going about this podcast, I'm thinking"},{"startTime":716.778,"endTime":721.908,"body":"of like trigger conditions like when"},{"startTime":716.778,"endTime":721.908,"body":"we might've planned an epic and had all"},{"startTime":721.908,"endTime":724.868,"body":"the work ready, the first time developer"},{"startTime":721.908,"endTime":724.868,"body":"pulls it and starts working on the first"},{"startTime":724.868,"endTime":729.348,"body":"story under that epic, I can blast out"},{"startTime":724.868,"endTime":729.348,"body":"and let the audience know, Hey guys, we"},{"startTime":729.348,"endTime":731.358,"body":"begun we've now, Completed our pivot."},{"startTime":731.378,"endTime":733.538,"body":"We completed whatever"},{"startTime":731.378,"endTime":733.538,"body":"work was happening before."},{"startTime":733.538,"endTime":736.688,"body":"I probably have something that I have"},{"startTime":733.538,"endTime":736.688,"body":"already blasted out to the audience to"},{"startTime":736.688,"endTime":738.568,"body":"let them know we're done with something."},{"startTime":739.008,"endTime":740.778,"body":"And there's a flurry of"},{"startTime":739.008,"endTime":740.778,"body":"activities with that."},{"startTime":741.078,"endTime":743.408,"body":"we'll talk about that in a"},{"startTime":741.078,"endTime":743.408,"body":"second when you complete work."},{"startTime":743.458,"endTime":745.598,"body":"But what I'm talking about is"},{"startTime":743.458,"endTime":745.598,"body":"you've started work and you're"},{"startTime":745.598,"endTime":748.288,"body":"letting the audience know, Hey, this"},{"startTime":745.598,"endTime":748.288,"body":"big initiative I've been talking"},{"startTime":748.288,"endTime":750.018,"body":"about for a while, it's starting."},{"startTime":750.318,"endTime":753.048,"body":"Yeah, I think that's a really useful"},{"startTime":750.318,"endTime":753.048,"body":"thing to do when you first start"},{"startTime":753.048,"endTime":755.968,"body":"work on anything like that, just"},{"startTime":753.048,"endTime":755.968,"body":"send that out and say, we've begun."},{"startTime":756.268,"endTime":761.068,"body":"I think it's also very useful to say,"},{"startTime":756.268,"endTime":761.068,"body":"along with that here's the roadmap,"},{"startTime":761.078,"endTime":764.348,"body":"just in case you don't have access"},{"startTime":761.078,"endTime":764.348,"body":"to it or you've forgotten about it."},{"startTime":764.678,"endTime":770.038,"body":"We set about going on down this roadmap"},{"startTime":764.678,"endTime":770.038,"body":"and we're here, so I like the now, next,"},{"startTime":770.038,"endTime":774.223,"body":"later type of columns and then within"},{"startTime":770.038,"endTime":774.223,"body":"that, I would have you know, whatever"},{"startTime":774.223,"endTime":778.583,"body":"fiscal year you're in And then the"},{"startTime":774.223,"endTime":778.583,"body":"quarter you're in and say this work was"},{"startTime":778.643,"endTime":782.803,"body":"on our roadmap We've now started that"},{"startTime":778.643,"endTime":782.803,"body":"They're usually rectangles representing"},{"startTime":782.923,"endTime":787.963,"body":"keywords for Large bits of functionality,"},{"startTime":782.923,"endTime":787.963,"body":"let's say it could be epics , whatever,"},{"startTime":788.043,"endTime":792.113,"body":"all of those I turn gray like black"},{"startTime":788.043,"endTime":792.113,"body":"and white Basically the whole thing I"},{"startTime":792.123,"endTime":795.903,"body":"flatten into black and white that piece"},{"startTime":792.123,"endTime":795.903,"body":"of functionality you just referenced that"},{"startTime":795.903,"endTime":799.863,"body":"we're about to start work on I make that"},{"startTime":795.903,"endTime":799.863,"body":"color and say this is in our roadmap."},{"startTime":799.863,"endTime":803.703,"body":"It's in that column that says we're in"},{"startTime":799.863,"endTime":803.703,"body":"the current quarter we have begun it may"},{"startTime":803.703,"endTime":804.833,"body":"or may not end in the current quarter."},{"startTime":804.833,"endTime":809.498,"body":"It doesn't matter we've started And that's"},{"startTime":804.833,"endTime":809.498,"body":"communicating out to everybody, the crowd."},{"startTime":809.798,"endTime":811.368,"body":"We're on track on our roadmap."},{"startTime":811.458,"endTime":812.298,"body":"This is nothing new."},{"startTime":812.358,"endTime":816.928,"body":"Don't panic we've started work on it and"},{"startTime":812.358,"endTime":816.928,"body":"you keep doing that throughout, right,"},{"startTime":816.958,"endTime":818.488,"body":"not every day or every month or anything."},{"startTime":818.498,"endTime":822.028,"body":"It's contextual, but as you get"},{"startTime":818.498,"endTime":822.028,"body":"closer to finishing that, send that"},{"startTime":822.028,"endTime":825.168,"body":"out and say, we're about to finish"},{"startTime":822.028,"endTime":825.168,"body":"this or do it as you finish it."},{"startTime":825.248,"endTime":826.198,"body":"You finish the last."},{"startTime":826.303,"endTime":828.743,"body":"bit of functionality in"},{"startTime":826.303,"endTime":828.743,"body":"that feature or epic."},{"startTime":829.123,"endTime":831.353,"body":"we haven't even done integration"},{"startTime":829.123,"endTime":831.353,"body":"or anything like that, but we"},{"startTime":831.353,"endTime":832.853,"body":"finished development testing."},{"startTime":832.933,"endTime":835.343,"body":"Like what you're talking about"},{"startTime":832.933,"endTime":835.343,"body":"now, it depends on your audience."},{"startTime":835.403,"endTime":839.003,"body":"some audiences are a lot more"},{"startTime":835.403,"endTime":839.003,"body":"touchy than other audiences."},{"startTime":839.253,"endTime":840.323,"body":"I was going to say touchy feely."},{"startTime":840.373,"endTime":843.423,"body":"People want to know when,"},{"startTime":840.373,"endTime":843.423,"body":"when's, when's this next feature."},{"startTime":843.773,"endTime":849.593,"body":"That I asked for going to be done or like"},{"startTime":843.773,"endTime":849.593,"body":"a, in B2B development, especially in heavy"},{"startTime":849.593,"endTime":853.433,"body":"sales led organizations, I'm very needy"},{"startTime":849.593,"endTime":853.433,"body":"about needing to know the progress because"},{"startTime":853.433,"endTime":857.873,"body":"I've got a whole bunch of stakeholders"},{"startTime":853.433,"endTime":857.873,"body":"that I am managing as a salesperson and"},{"startTime":857.913,"endTime":861.553,"body":"they're asking me all the time basically"},{"startTime":857.913,"endTime":861.553,"body":"I'm looking for opportunities because"},{"startTime":861.583,"endTime":864.873,"body":"I know there might be money under that"},{"startTime":861.583,"endTime":864.873,"body":"rock when you guys get to that point."},{"startTime":865.023,"endTime":868.963,"body":"I think you probably could have triggers"},{"startTime":865.023,"endTime":868.963,"body":"when, when  big epics and swings like that"},{"startTime":868.973,"endTime":874.173,"body":"start, but also there's like a, regular"},{"startTime":868.973,"endTime":874.173,"body":"cadence you could be taking things out"},{"startTime":874.173,"endTime":877.303,"body":"of development environments as things get"},{"startTime":874.173,"endTime":877.303,"body":"turned in and taking screenshots and stuff"},{"startTime":877.593,"endTime":881.733,"body":"and throwing out at it, whatever channel"},{"startTime":877.593,"endTime":881.733,"body":"this is, this, this this is low interest,"},{"startTime":881.753,"endTime":883.203,"body":"low power that we're talking about."},{"startTime":883.653,"endTime":887.043,"body":"So , whatever that is, like giving"},{"startTime":883.653,"endTime":887.043,"body":"them a window into the development."},{"startTime":887.368,"endTime":891.298,"body":"Of the product and saying, Hey"},{"startTime":887.368,"endTime":891.298,"body":"here's a preview of this new widget."},{"startTime":891.358,"endTime":892.838,"body":"the styling's not quite right."},{"startTime":892.838,"endTime":894.848,"body":"And we got more work to"},{"startTime":892.838,"endTime":894.848,"body":"do, it's coming along."},{"startTime":894.848,"endTime":897.838,"body":"I'm just showing you, this is what you"},{"startTime":894.848,"endTime":897.838,"body":"can expect in the next couple of weeks"},{"startTime":897.838,"endTime":899.108,"body":"in the application or a couple of days,"},{"startTime":899.108,"endTime":902.818,"body":"Expanding the comms to these"},{"startTime":899.108,"endTime":902.818,"body":"folks that often feel like,"},{"startTime":902.828,"endTime":904.198,"body":"they're just along for the ride."},{"startTime":904.558,"endTime":908.248,"body":"To make them feel more like"},{"startTime":904.558,"endTime":908.248,"body":"they understand what's happening"},{"startTime":908.248,"endTime":909.168,"body":"through the development process."},{"startTime":909.448,"endTime":913.798,"body":"Which to be honest, a lot of time is"},{"startTime":909.448,"endTime":913.798,"body":"a very opaque process to most people."},{"startTime":913.848,"endTime":914.338,"body":"Sadly."},{"startTime":914.338,"endTime":916.688,"body":"A couple of things I want to"},{"startTime":914.338,"endTime":916.688,"body":"talk about here really quick."},{"startTime":916.698,"endTime":921.168,"body":"One is, if you have stakeholders that"},{"startTime":916.698,"endTime":921.168,"body":"are really pressuring you because"},{"startTime":921.168,"endTime":923.628,"body":"they're managing their own, like the"},{"startTime":921.168,"endTime":923.628,"body":"sales people you referenced, right?"},{"startTime":923.678,"endTime":926.028,"body":"If they don't sell and"},{"startTime":923.678,"endTime":926.028,"body":"deliver, we don't make money."},{"startTime":926.068,"endTime":927.138,"body":"So, okay, fine."},{"startTime":927.148,"endTime":930.898,"body":"But with them, you don't want to just"},{"startTime":927.148,"endTime":930.898,"body":"share  a marker on a timeline to say"},{"startTime":930.898,"endTime":934.638,"body":"we've begun because as soon as you do that"},{"startTime":930.898,"endTime":934.638,"body":"They will ask when are you ending this?"},{"startTime":934.758,"endTime":936.818,"body":"Because we don't know when"},{"startTime":934.758,"endTime":936.818,"body":"it can, go live in the wild?"},{"startTime":936.918,"endTime":940.588,"body":"So I think rather than just screenshots"},{"startTime":936.918,"endTime":940.588,"body":"you have to wrap some narrative around"},{"startTime":940.588,"endTime":945.018,"body":"it and say, we've begun, we anticipate"},{"startTime":940.588,"endTime":945.018,"body":"this taking anywhere between three and"},{"startTime":945.018,"endTime":947.598,"body":"five sprints, as opposed to this date,"},{"startTime":947.898,"endTime":951.718,"body":"Even though internally your team may"},{"startTime":947.898,"endTime":951.718,"body":"have planned a date, it's just a plan."},{"startTime":951.838,"endTime":956.368,"body":"If you're putting this out there to"},{"startTime":951.838,"endTime":956.368,"body":"people for awareness, it's great because"},{"startTime":956.378,"endTime":960.198,"body":"the earlier you do that and the more"},{"startTime":956.378,"endTime":960.198,"body":"frequent to a reasonable degree, the"},{"startTime":960.198,"endTime":964.208,"body":"better, because you may have stakeholders"},{"startTime":960.198,"endTime":964.208,"body":"in the crowd that aren't necessarily."},{"startTime":964.678,"endTime":968.258,"body":"Heavily vested, but they're in"},{"startTime":964.678,"endTime":968.258,"body":"parallel working on something"},{"startTime":968.258,"endTime":972.798,"body":"that may somehow depend on, or"},{"startTime":968.258,"endTime":972.798,"body":"your work may depend on them."},{"startTime":973.038,"endTime":974.738,"body":"dependencies, that's"},{"startTime":973.038,"endTime":974.738,"body":"really where I'm going."},{"startTime":975.168,"endTime":978.048,"body":"People can see, oh yeah, they've"},{"startTime":975.168,"endTime":978.048,"body":"started work on this dependency"},{"startTime":978.108,"endTime":981.618,"body":"item that we're dependent on"},{"startTime":978.108,"endTime":981.618,"body":"ourselves,  it's really serving the"},{"startTime":981.618,"endTime":983.368,"body":"purpose of keeping them informed."},{"startTime":983.738,"endTime":987.418,"body":"And it cuts out a lot of noise if"},{"startTime":983.738,"endTime":987.418,"body":"you can do this in the form of them"},{"startTime":987.418,"endTime":991.148,"body":"reaching out to various individuals"},{"startTime":987.418,"endTime":991.148,"body":"Perhaps your tech leads teams, whatever"},{"startTime":991.398,"endTime":994.418,"body":"directly and say where are we at with"},{"startTime":991.398,"endTime":994.418,"body":"this we need this We need this right?"},{"startTime":994.658,"endTime":996.478,"body":"It's like well, we've"},{"startTime":994.658,"endTime":996.478,"body":"shared this with you."},{"startTime":996.608,"endTime":1000.318,"body":"Here's where we are and look"},{"startTime":996.608,"endTime":1000.318,"body":"for another update So with this"},{"startTime":1000.618,"endTime":1003.158,"body":"communication, there's always visuals."},{"startTime":1003.158,"endTime":1006.098,"body":"I like pictures There's always"},{"startTime":1003.158,"endTime":1006.098,"body":"some  narrative and then there's"},{"startTime":1006.098,"endTime":1007.818,"body":"always when's the next update?"},{"startTime":1008.118,"endTime":1011.648,"body":"So they know otherwise they'll get"},{"startTime":1008.118,"endTime":1011.648,"body":"impatient and ask you where are you at?"},{"startTime":1011.668,"endTime":1013.198,"body":"Where will you be in a month from now?"},{"startTime":1013.538,"endTime":1013.758,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":1013.758,"endTime":1020.138,"body":"Theoretically any of the individuals in"},{"startTime":1013.758,"endTime":1020.138,"body":"any of the boxes, this stream of constant"},{"startTime":1020.168,"endTime":1024.828,"body":"updates, that goes out to the crowd,"},{"startTime":1020.168,"endTime":1024.828,"body":"to this low interest, low power crowd."},{"startTime":1025.323,"endTime":1028.073,"body":"anybody in any of these could be"},{"startTime":1025.323,"endTime":1028.073,"body":"in that communication channel."},{"startTime":1028.343,"endTime":1031.623,"body":"If it's a slack channel with product"},{"startTime":1028.343,"endTime":1031.623,"body":"announcements or whatever, they're"},{"startTime":1031.623,"endTime":1032.783,"body":"seeing these announcements too."},{"startTime":1032.783,"endTime":1036.783,"body":"So whatever you put into this channel"},{"startTime":1032.783,"endTime":1036.783,"body":"everyone could take advantage of it."},{"startTime":1036.793,"endTime":1037.453,"body":"Theoretically."},{"startTime":1037.583,"endTime":1038.433,"body":"You're absolutely correct."},{"startTime":1038.443,"endTime":1040.923,"body":"I would say though, in"},{"startTime":1038.443,"endTime":1040.923,"body":"a channel like this."},{"startTime":1041.223,"endTime":1046.183,"body":"Avoid asking for decisions or"},{"startTime":1041.223,"endTime":1046.183,"body":"directions of people that are"},{"startTime":1046.203,"endTime":1048.693,"body":"in the other three boxes, right?"},{"startTime":1048.953,"endTime":1050.083,"body":"Because they'll lose it in the noise."},{"startTime":1050.093,"endTime":1050.893,"body":"Yeah, right."},{"startTime":1050.913,"endTime":1051.493,"body":"Don't do that."},{"startTime":1051.493,"endTime":1056.393,"body":"Keep this as a general purpose, typically"},{"startTime":1051.493,"endTime":1056.393,"body":"just a one way type of information,"},{"startTime":1056.463,"endTime":1057.073,"body":"Here it is."},{"startTime":1057.133,"endTime":1060.588,"body":"And then sure, they can ask questions"},{"startTime":1057.133,"endTime":1060.588,"body":"if it's Teams or Slack or whatever."},{"startTime":1060.828,"endTime":1063.718,"body":"And you can answer that, but you"},{"startTime":1060.828,"endTime":1063.718,"body":"know, majority of the time, this"},{"startTime":1063.718,"endTime":1068.268,"body":"is just information from you as a"},{"startTime":1063.718,"endTime":1068.268,"body":"product person to them, you're not"},{"startTime":1068.268,"endTime":1071.828,"body":"asking for feedback, you're not"},{"startTime":1068.268,"endTime":1071.828,"body":"asking for decisions, none of that."},{"startTime":1071.998,"endTime":1075.478,"body":"That happens in the other channels"},{"startTime":1071.998,"endTime":1075.478,"body":"that we'll get to in a bit."},{"startTime":1075.778,"endTime":1077.648,"body":"So if you do that, I"},{"startTime":1075.778,"endTime":1077.648,"body":"think that's a good thing."},{"startTime":1077.948,"endTime":1082.418,"body":"So we said when you start things,"},{"startTime":1077.948,"endTime":1082.418,"body":"when you finish things, and a window"},{"startTime":1082.508,"endTime":1083.838,"body":"for things that are in progress."},{"startTime":1084.028,"endTime":1088.143,"body":"Those are the three things that we"},{"startTime":1084.028,"endTime":1088.143,"body":"outlined I envision this as a very chatty"},{"startTime":1088.643,"endTime":1090.403,"body":"meaning like I'm sending a lot of stuff."},{"startTime":1090.643,"endTime":1092.333,"body":"I would prefer it be one way."},{"startTime":1092.633,"endTime":1096.203,"body":"Cause I could only imagine this"},{"startTime":1092.633,"endTime":1096.203,"body":"could be a gigantic audience."},{"startTime":1096.203,"endTime":1099.803,"body":"If you work at a company that's like"},{"startTime":1096.203,"endTime":1099.803,"body":"tens of thousands of employees , it"},{"startTime":1099.803,"endTime":1101.373,"body":"mainly is intended to be one way."},{"startTime":1101.423,"endTime":1104.863,"body":"So let's move up to high"},{"startTime":1101.423,"endTime":1104.863,"body":"interest, but low power."},{"startTime":1104.953,"endTime":1106.243,"body":"So high interest, low power."},{"startTime":1106.243,"endTime":1107.693,"body":"I've got some things"},{"startTime":1106.243,"endTime":1107.693,"body":"written down for this one."},{"startTime":1107.893,"endTime":1111.683,"body":"the teams that you work with as a"},{"startTime":1107.893,"endTime":1111.683,"body":"product manager on a regular basis,"},{"startTime":1112.063,"endTime":1115.053,"body":"the development team members, QA team"},{"startTime":1112.063,"endTime":1115.053,"body":"members, business analysts, the people"},{"startTime":1115.053,"endTime":1118.523,"body":"that you work with that comprise"},{"startTime":1115.053,"endTime":1118.523,"body":"your team, UI UX people and users"},{"startTime":1118.523,"endTime":1120.803,"body":"and customers go in this category."},{"startTime":1121.268,"endTime":1124.718,"body":"And then internal client teams that use"},{"startTime":1121.268,"endTime":1124.718,"body":"your products, which is basically the"},{"startTime":1124.718,"endTime":1128.428,"body":"same as end users and customers, if you're"},{"startTime":1124.718,"endTime":1128.428,"body":"like a technical product manager and your"},{"startTime":1128.428,"endTime":1132.048,"body":"stack is like backend APIs or something"},{"startTime":1128.428,"endTime":1132.048,"body":"like that, that would be these folks."},{"startTime":1132.448,"endTime":1135.228,"body":"So it basically, this is where"},{"startTime":1132.448,"endTime":1135.228,"body":"you shuffle your customer,"},{"startTime":1135.228,"endTime":1137.378,"body":"into low power, high interest."},{"startTime":1137.678,"endTime":1143.368,"body":"Yeah, and I think there's a category"},{"startTime":1137.678,"endTime":1143.368,"body":"where if your solution is it needs it"},{"startTime":1143.368,"endTime":1148.038,"body":"folks at your customer side to kind of"},{"startTime":1143.368,"endTime":1148.038,"body":"either install, configure, implement,"},{"startTime":1148.048,"endTime":1149.758,"body":"use, whatever it might be trained, right?"},{"startTime":1150.098,"endTime":1152.578,"body":"Those people, not the"},{"startTime":1150.098,"endTime":1152.578,"body":"end users necessarily."},{"startTime":1152.578,"endTime":1154.408,"body":"Those people would also"},{"startTime":1152.578,"endTime":1154.408,"body":"be in this category."},{"startTime":1154.418,"endTime":1157.328,"body":"Also, if you have a product that's"},{"startTime":1154.418,"endTime":1157.328,"body":"internal, my first job as a product"},{"startTime":1157.328,"endTime":1161.178,"body":"manager was internal tools and tooling"},{"startTime":1157.328,"endTime":1161.178,"body":"Some people that worked in support"},{"startTime":1161.438,"endTime":1165.238,"body":"and some people who work in QA and"},{"startTime":1161.438,"endTime":1165.238,"body":"other developers were my customers."},{"startTime":1165.538,"endTime":1170.448,"body":"If you have people in house that use the"},{"startTime":1165.538,"endTime":1170.448,"body":"tools to do something for the product, but"},{"startTime":1170.448,"endTime":1172.518,"body":"they're not really like external users."},{"startTime":1172.788,"endTime":1176.388,"body":"You can't just say they're low"},{"startTime":1172.788,"endTime":1176.388,"body":"interest, low power your tools are"},{"startTime":1176.388,"endTime":1181.658,"body":"for them because the stuff they drive"},{"startTime":1176.388,"endTime":1181.658,"body":"using the products drives value to the"},{"startTime":1181.658,"endTime":1186.338,"body":"customers in kind of a roundabout way,"},{"startTime":1181.658,"endTime":1186.338,"body":"it really is a direct way,  I've seen"},{"startTime":1186.338,"endTime":1188.458,"body":"more than more than a couple of shops."},{"startTime":1188.768,"endTime":1191.388,"body":"Think that those people they don't"},{"startTime":1188.768,"endTime":1191.388,"body":"really matter they put them  in the"},{"startTime":1191.388,"endTime":1196.018,"body":"low category I'm like, no those people"},{"startTime":1191.388,"endTime":1196.018,"body":"need to be involved in crafting  what"},{"startTime":1196.018,"endTime":1197.568,"body":"the most helpful things are yeah,"},{"startTime":1197.868,"endTime":1200.258,"body":"So in this power interest matrix."},{"startTime":1200.298,"endTime":1206.548,"body":"I want to define power and interest"},{"startTime":1200.298,"endTime":1206.548,"body":"so that we can use that to help"},{"startTime":1206.558,"endTime":1208.088,"body":"guide the rest of the podcast."},{"startTime":1208.378,"endTime":1211.218,"body":"So let's take a second and talk"},{"startTime":1208.378,"endTime":1211.218,"body":"about both of those categories."},{"startTime":1211.518,"endTime":1213.638,"body":"There's a few bullet"},{"startTime":1211.518,"endTime":1213.638,"body":"points I wrote down for it."},{"startTime":1214.008,"endTime":1217.698,"body":"power assessment says, can they"},{"startTime":1214.008,"endTime":1217.698,"body":"stop or delay your project?"},{"startTime":1217.998,"endTime":1219.538,"body":"Do they control resources or budget?"},{"startTime":1219.838,"endTime":1223.648,"body":"by resources here, I mean people"},{"startTime":1219.838,"endTime":1223.648,"body":"like, can they take people off"},{"startTime":1223.648,"endTime":1225.888,"body":"your team thereby delaying?"},{"startTime":1225.888,"endTime":1229.098,"body":"So do they own the budget"},{"startTime":1225.888,"endTime":1229.098,"body":"or do they own the people?"},{"startTime":1229.398,"endTime":1231.258,"body":"Can they influence other key stakeholders?"},{"startTime":1231.258,"endTime":1234.388,"body":"you come up with an idea that you think"},{"startTime":1231.258,"endTime":1234.388,"body":"is great and then somebody else is"},{"startTime":1234.388,"endTime":1236.058,"body":"turning around and undermining you, right?"},{"startTime":1236.258,"endTime":1237.058,"body":"It does happen."},{"startTime":1237.278,"endTime":1239.418,"body":"do they have direct authority over?"},{"startTime":1239.908,"endTime":1244.938,"body":"The outcomes of what you're doing,"},{"startTime":1239.908,"endTime":1244.938,"body":"if they're a director or VP or chief"},{"startTime":1244.948,"endTime":1248.238,"body":"product officer and you're a product"},{"startTime":1244.948,"endTime":1248.238,"body":"manager working for them, they can be"},{"startTime":1248.238,"endTime":1251.238,"body":"like, you're making all the wrong bets,"},{"startTime":1248.238,"endTime":1251.238,"body":"Brian, these are not the problems I need."},{"startTime":1251.268,"endTime":1252.708,"body":"These are not the droids"},{"startTime":1251.268,"endTime":1252.708,"body":"you're looking for."},{"startTime":1252.728,"endTime":1253.508,"body":"move along."},{"startTime":1253.858,"endTime":1255.908,"body":"And I'll be like, well, I"},{"startTime":1253.858,"endTime":1255.908,"body":"guess I should move along then."},{"startTime":1256.208,"endTime":1257.318,"body":"that's the power assessment."},{"startTime":1257.338,"endTime":1258.258,"body":"Yeah, exactly."},{"startTime":1258.258,"endTime":1260.678,"body":"To boil it down, the"},{"startTime":1258.258,"endTime":1260.678,"body":"high power people, cool."},{"startTime":1260.978,"endTime":1265.108,"body":"Can influence whether your product"},{"startTime":1260.978,"endTime":1265.108,"body":"goes, what direction it goes in, what"},{"startTime":1265.108,"endTime":1267.778,"body":"features you deliver or not deliver."},{"startTime":1268.018,"endTime":1269.548,"body":"When do you deliver them, right?"},{"startTime":1269.848,"endTime":1270.888,"body":"They can influence that."},{"startTime":1271.248,"endTime":1275.808,"body":"That's the high power piece The low power"},{"startTime":1271.248,"endTime":1275.808,"body":"people have no say there, regardless"},{"startTime":1275.808,"endTime":1277.508,"body":"of their interest level, high or low."},{"startTime":1277.748,"endTime":1281.348,"body":"They don't have the, I hate to"},{"startTime":1277.748,"endTime":1281.348,"body":"use the term, but authority."},{"startTime":1281.648,"endTime":1285.698,"body":"to change things in that way,  as far"},{"startTime":1281.648,"endTime":1285.698,"body":"as the interest level is concerned, I"},{"startTime":1285.708,"endTime":1287.188,"body":"think we said the crowd is the largest."},{"startTime":1287.448,"endTime":1290.948,"body":"Anybody who has even a tangential"},{"startTime":1287.448,"endTime":1290.948,"body":"interest, that's in that category."},{"startTime":1290.948,"endTime":1295.418,"body":"But the high interest people are"},{"startTime":1290.948,"endTime":1295.418,"body":"people that have either the authority"},{"startTime":1295.418,"endTime":1300.078,"body":"to change the way the products"},{"startTime":1295.418,"endTime":1300.078,"body":"are delivered, right, or not."},{"startTime":1300.198,"endTime":1301.638,"body":"That's the power side of it."},{"startTime":1301.808,"endTime":1306.533,"body":"The high interest is They have taken"},{"startTime":1301.808,"endTime":1306.533,"body":"the game because they might actually"},{"startTime":1306.543,"endTime":1308.193,"body":"be impacted by what you're doing."},{"startTime":1308.193,"endTime":1309.193,"body":"So here's an example."},{"startTime":1309.463,"endTime":1313.243,"body":"You're delivering into production,"},{"startTime":1309.463,"endTime":1313.243,"body":"something that needs to be operationalized"},{"startTime":1313.293,"endTime":1315.133,"body":"and supported by somebody else, right?"},{"startTime":1315.473,"endTime":1318.173,"body":"They'd be very interested in this"},{"startTime":1315.473,"endTime":1318.173,"body":"because they have to make sure that"},{"startTime":1318.183,"endTime":1320.193,"body":"they get knowledge, transfer, et cetera."},{"startTime":1320.618,"endTime":1323.378,"body":"You know, upscale their people so"},{"startTime":1320.618,"endTime":1323.378,"body":"that the product can be supported."},{"startTime":1323.378,"endTime":1327.208,"body":"that's just one example So I"},{"startTime":1323.378,"endTime":1327.208,"body":"have some bullets for interest as"},{"startTime":1327.208,"endTime":1332.078,"body":"well interest is, how frequently"},{"startTime":1327.208,"endTime":1332.078,"body":"does this group, ask for updates?"},{"startTime":1332.408,"endTime":1333.398,"body":"how needy are they?"},{"startTime":1333.448,"endTime":1336.688,"body":"do they actively participate in your."},{"startTime":1336.988,"endTime":1338.018,"body":"Product discussions."},{"startTime":1338.278,"endTime":1340.428,"body":"are they coming to your refinements?"},{"startTime":1340.778,"endTime":1345.008,"body":"sprint reviews or product demos"},{"startTime":1340.778,"endTime":1345.008,"body":"Are they directly impacted by the"},{"startTime":1345.008,"endTime":1346.708,"body":"outcomes of what you're working on?"},{"startTime":1346.788,"endTime":1350.588,"body":"And then, the last one is, do"},{"startTime":1346.788,"endTime":1350.588,"body":"they normally provide unsolicited?"},{"startTime":1350.998,"endTime":1351.518,"body":"Feedback."},{"startTime":1351.818,"endTime":1352.808,"body":"These are awesome points."},{"startTime":1353.138,"endTime":1354.118,"body":"these are things to watch out for."},{"startTime":1354.258,"endTime":1355.478,"body":"When we were doing the agenda for this."},{"startTime":1355.878,"endTime":1360.378,"body":"I was putting my notes into AI for"},{"startTime":1355.878,"endTime":1360.378,"body":"help and it wrote a power matrix"},{"startTime":1360.448,"endTime":1364.938,"body":"assessment, a survey that I could"},{"startTime":1360.448,"endTime":1364.938,"body":"use as a product manager to go put"},{"startTime":1364.948,"endTime":1368.038,"body":"in and rank my, like enter my user."},{"startTime":1368.303,"endTime":1370.213,"body":"And then answer some"},{"startTime":1368.303,"endTime":1370.213,"body":"questions about my user."},{"startTime":1370.443,"endTime":1372.483,"body":"I might show the code for"},{"startTime":1370.443,"endTime":1372.483,"body":"that before we're done here."},{"startTime":1372.483,"endTime":1374.103,"body":"I thought that was pretty interesting."},{"startTime":1374.103,"endTime":1377.553,"body":"depending on how many questions"},{"startTime":1374.103,"endTime":1377.553,"body":"I answered, yes or no to shuffle"},{"startTime":1377.553,"endTime":1378.863,"body":"them into these categories."},{"startTime":1378.863,"endTime":1380.093,"body":"I thought that was pretty interesting."},{"startTime":1380.393,"endTime":1383.073,"body":"It would be cool if  I would totally"},{"startTime":1380.393,"endTime":1383.073,"body":"host something like that as like,"},{"startTime":1383.323,"endTime":1385.813,"body":"Hey, go onto this tool, add your user."},{"startTime":1386.178,"endTime":1390.698,"body":"Answer some questions, hit go, and"},{"startTime":1386.178,"endTime":1390.698,"body":"then you'll get a number ranking then"},{"startTime":1390.698,"endTime":1392.378,"body":"it will tell you what the thing is."},{"startTime":1392.428,"endTime":1396.458,"body":"just a real quick online tool to"},{"startTime":1392.428,"endTime":1396.458,"body":"name your user, put their job role"},{"startTime":1396.458,"endTime":1399.148,"body":"in, answer the survey questions,"},{"startTime":1396.458,"endTime":1399.148,"body":"hit go, and then you have your score"},{"startTime":1399.148,"endTime":1402.348,"body":"you can take that score and put it"},{"startTime":1399.148,"endTime":1402.348,"body":"right on your chart and be like, Oh,"},{"startTime":1402.348,"endTime":1403.498,"body":"I guess they're in this category."},{"startTime":1403.678,"endTime":1404.348,"body":"That'd be pretty cool."},{"startTime":1404.348,"endTime":1405.318,"body":"I love the idea."},{"startTime":1405.378,"endTime":1407.478,"body":"Cause a lot of times"},{"startTime":1405.378,"endTime":1407.478,"body":"people struggle with that."},{"startTime":1407.678,"endTime":1408.888,"body":"where do I put this person?"},{"startTime":1409.198,"endTime":1409.658,"body":"Well."},{"startTime":1409.958,"endTime":1414.028,"body":"You try and slot them in what you think"},{"startTime":1409.958,"endTime":1414.028,"body":"is the correct square or put them in the"},{"startTime":1414.028,"endTime":1415.728,"body":"crowd and if they need more, they'll yell."},{"startTime":1416.028,"endTime":1416.388,"body":"Okay."},{"startTime":1416.438,"endTime":1418.648,"body":"Well, so we had a couple of side tangents."},{"startTime":1418.983,"endTime":1422.153,"body":"we may or may not be returning"},{"startTime":1418.983,"endTime":1422.153,"body":"from but we are in the high"},{"startTime":1422.153,"endTime":1423.813,"body":"interest low power category."},{"startTime":1423.863,"endTime":1424.753,"body":"On the chart on the screen."},{"startTime":1424.793,"endTime":1431.703,"body":"High interest, low power folks are"},{"startTime":1424.793,"endTime":1431.703,"body":"your sprint review invitees people"},{"startTime":1431.703,"endTime":1433.293,"body":"that are coming to your refinements."},{"startTime":1433.653,"endTime":1437.723,"body":"You know, people that have a, a, a sake"},{"startTime":1433.653,"endTime":1437.723,"body":"in the, the, the features basically"},{"startTime":1437.723,"endTime":1439.113,"body":"that you're planning and delivering."},{"startTime":1439.513,"endTime":1441.367,"body":"So we're talking about the subjects."},{"startTime":1441.507,"endTime":1442.527,"body":"He calls them subjects."},{"startTime":1442.527,"endTime":1443.867,"body":"Just to read what he says, right?"},{"startTime":1443.977,"endTime":1449.267,"body":"What Roman Pichler says with his"},{"startTime":1443.977,"endTime":1449.267,"body":"smooth jazz subjects are individuals"},{"startTime":1449.277,"endTime":1450.927,"body":"with high interest, but low power."},{"startTime":1451.307,"endTime":1452.097,"body":"We already covered that."},{"startTime":1452.277,"endTime":1456.387,"body":"They feel affected by the product and"},{"startTime":1452.277,"endTime":1456.387,"body":"are keen to influence it, but they can't."},{"startTime":1456.567,"endTime":1458.407,"body":"Veto or change decisions."},{"startTime":1458.677,"endTime":1462.127,"body":"Subjects can make great allies who"},{"startTime":1458.677,"endTime":1462.127,"body":"can help you secure understanding"},{"startTime":1462.157,"endTime":1463.667,"body":"and buy in for your product."},{"startTime":1463.877,"endTime":1468.037,"body":"Keep them engaged and involve them on a"},{"startTime":1463.877,"endTime":1468.037,"body":"regular basis, for instance, by inviting"},{"startTime":1468.037,"endTime":1471.467,"body":"them to sprint review meetings and"},{"startTime":1468.037,"endTime":1471.467,"body":"encouraging them to share their feedback,"},{"startTime":1471.797,"endTime":1476.087,"body":"but don't make the mistake of saying yes"},{"startTime":1471.797,"endTime":1476.087,"body":"to every idea and request subjects raise."},{"startTime":1476.087,"endTime":1480.207,"body":"Use the product strategy and roadmap"},{"startTime":1476.087,"endTime":1480.207,"body":"to assess if an idea is helpful or not."},{"startTime":1480.557,"endTime":1484.927,"body":"If in doubt, consider running a brief"},{"startTime":1480.557,"endTime":1484.927,"body":"and cheap experiment to find out if"},{"startTime":1484.967,"endTime":1486.932,"body":"adding a feature would be beneficial."},{"startTime":1486.982,"endTime":1492.962,"body":"Brian will say, an even better example"},{"startTime":1486.982,"endTime":1492.962,"body":"would be rope those subjects, those,"},{"startTime":1492.982,"endTime":1499.062,"body":"those, those those low power, high"},{"startTime":1492.982,"endTime":1499.062,"body":"interest folks, rope them in to somehow"},{"startTime":1499.472,"endTime":1503.362,"body":"having a hand in those experiments so they"},{"startTime":1499.472,"endTime":1503.362,"body":"can see that their ideas are garbage just"},{"startTime":1503.362,"endTime":1505.132,"body":"like everyone else's ideas are garbage."},{"startTime":1505.222,"endTime":1505.642,"body":"Or not."},{"startTime":1505.702,"endTime":1508.427,"body":"And if their ideas are great, Give"},{"startTime":1505.702,"endTime":1508.427,"body":"them the credit for those great"},{"startTime":1508.427,"endTime":1511.077,"body":"ideas and pass that along I do the"},{"startTime":1508.427,"endTime":1511.077,"body":"same thing with development teams."},{"startTime":1511.127,"endTime":1513.867,"body":"Sometimes people are like, Brian,"},{"startTime":1511.127,"endTime":1513.867,"body":"this feature is really great."},{"startTime":1513.867,"endTime":1515.547,"body":"And I say, well, I'm"},{"startTime":1513.867,"endTime":1515.547,"body":"glad that you like it."},{"startTime":1515.657,"endTime":1516.577,"body":"I'm glad you like it."},{"startTime":1516.847,"endTime":1518.087,"body":"The developers came up with that."},{"startTime":1518.117,"endTime":1521.037,"body":"I certainly pushed it forward,"},{"startTime":1518.117,"endTime":1521.037,"body":"but I did very little on that."},{"startTime":1521.087,"endTime":1524.597,"body":"And I will pass the credit right"},{"startTime":1521.087,"endTime":1524.597,"body":"along to whoever the credit is due to."},{"startTime":1524.947,"endTime":1525.267,"body":"Absolutely."},{"startTime":1525.287,"endTime":1527.747,"body":"That encourages the team"},{"startTime":1525.287,"endTime":1527.747,"body":"to be more innovative, if"},{"startTime":1527.747,"endTime":1528.817,"body":"they're in that environment."},{"startTime":1529.197,"endTime":1530.217,"body":"So I do agree with that."},{"startTime":1530.517,"endTime":1535.577,"body":"Yeah, I think involving people going"},{"startTime":1530.517,"endTime":1535.577,"body":"beyond the sort of just information, which"},{"startTime":1535.577,"endTime":1537.467,"body":"is what we talked about with the crowd."},{"startTime":1537.577,"endTime":1537.787,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":1537.837,"endTime":1542.787,"body":"Involving people is It's not necessarily,"},{"startTime":1537.837,"endTime":1542.787,"body":"as Roman says don't, don't feel compelled"},{"startTime":1542.787,"endTime":1546.517,"body":"to put in every feature they ask for,"},{"startTime":1542.787,"endTime":1546.517,"body":"but do ask them for feedback, You can"},{"startTime":1546.717,"endTime":1550.767,"body":"ask open ended feedback, or you can ask"},{"startTime":1546.717,"endTime":1550.767,"body":"specific feedback about the feature."},{"startTime":1551.187,"endTime":1552.307,"body":"Both have their merits."},{"startTime":1552.547,"endTime":1555.987,"body":"Open ended would be as if you"},{"startTime":1552.547,"endTime":1555.987,"body":"are a customer, how do you think"},{"startTime":1555.987,"endTime":1557.377,"body":"this journey could be improved?"},{"startTime":1557.597,"endTime":1560.247,"body":"What are some of the ways we can"},{"startTime":1557.597,"endTime":1560.247,"body":"get better at what we're doing"},{"startTime":1560.577,"endTime":1562.217,"body":"The product can be improved."},{"startTime":1562.427,"endTime":1564.407,"body":"These are just suggestions from them."},{"startTime":1564.567,"endTime":1566.057,"body":"treat these as suggestions."},{"startTime":1566.117,"endTime":1566.857,"body":"not directives."},{"startTime":1567.237,"endTime":1571.077,"body":"compile them and use that in the"},{"startTime":1567.237,"endTime":1571.077,"body":"greater context of planning,  make"},{"startTime":1571.077,"endTime":1574.557,"body":"sure it's clear to them that just"},{"startTime":1571.077,"endTime":1574.557,"body":"because you're asking for suggestions"},{"startTime":1574.807,"endTime":1578.077,"body":"and they're providing doesn't mean"},{"startTime":1574.807,"endTime":1578.077,"body":"you'll implement those features."},{"startTime":1578.227,"endTime":1578.457,"body":"Okay."},{"startTime":1578.457,"endTime":1579.307,"body":"That has to be clear."},{"startTime":1579.607,"endTime":1584.267,"body":"So, he has involved in the older article"},{"startTime":1579.607,"endTime":1584.267,"body":"frequency monthly sprint review meetings."},{"startTime":1584.367,"endTime":1587.657,"body":"I assume this is more frequent than"},{"startTime":1584.367,"endTime":1587.657,"body":"monthly, but I guess monthly is the"},{"startTime":1587.667,"endTime":1589.697,"body":"minimum here, if they're involved in your."},{"startTime":1590.152,"endTime":1592.022,"body":"refinements and your sprint reviews."},{"startTime":1592.222,"endTime":1597.462,"body":"I assume you're talking to these people"},{"startTime":1592.222,"endTime":1597.462,"body":"every other week at a minimum because"},{"startTime":1597.462,"endTime":1600.132,"body":"they're probably in your refinements"},{"startTime":1597.462,"endTime":1600.132,"body":"or at least your sprint reviews."},{"startTime":1600.432,"endTime":1601.922,"body":"at a team level, that's true."},{"startTime":1601.982,"endTime":1604.842,"body":"If you're in a scaled environment,"},{"startTime":1601.982,"endTime":1604.842,"body":"monthly might be fine too."},{"startTime":1604.882,"endTime":1605.972,"body":"Okay, it's contextual."},{"startTime":1606.312,"endTime":1610.092,"body":"So maybe they don't need to see something"},{"startTime":1606.312,"endTime":1610.092,"body":"because it's not significant enough."},{"startTime":1610.392,"endTime":1613.402,"body":"Maybe it's every other sprint because"},{"startTime":1610.392,"endTime":1613.402,"body":"you're integrating with another team"},{"startTime":1613.402,"endTime":1618.812,"body":"But the point is to involve them as"},{"startTime":1613.402,"endTime":1618.812,"body":"frequently as needed and regularly."},{"startTime":1619.212,"endTime":1622.842,"body":"at a workplace I was at one time, We"},{"startTime":1619.212,"endTime":1622.842,"body":"had a core group of people that we made"},{"startTime":1622.842,"endTime":1624.642,"body":"sure to include at the sprint reviews."},{"startTime":1624.992,"endTime":1628.172,"body":"we would record the sprint"},{"startTime":1624.992,"endTime":1628.172,"body":"reviews, which I absolutely detest."},{"startTime":1628.172,"endTime":1629.782,"body":"I don't like recording sprint reviews."},{"startTime":1630.072,"endTime":1634.652,"body":"But, this pool of people was"},{"startTime":1630.072,"endTime":1634.652,"body":"actually quite large at that company."},{"startTime":1634.892,"endTime":1638.672,"body":"It was a, double digit number"},{"startTime":1634.892,"endTime":1638.672,"body":"of people,  like 12, 15 people."},{"startTime":1638.702,"endTime":1641.042,"body":"it was larger than like three people."},{"startTime":1641.342,"endTime":1644.062,"body":"Probably cause we had multiple teams"},{"startTime":1641.342,"endTime":1644.062,"body":"But what we would do is we could"},{"startTime":1644.072,"endTime":1648.622,"body":"always get the commitment of like"},{"startTime":1644.072,"endTime":1648.622,"body":"two or three people from that pool of"},{"startTime":1648.622,"endTime":1652.732,"body":"users with high interest, low power."},{"startTime":1653.032,"endTime":1654.512,"body":"They'd always ask questions"},{"startTime":1653.032,"endTime":1654.512,"body":"in the Sprint Review."},{"startTime":1654.512,"endTime":1658.782,"body":"And then we'd record the session and post"},{"startTime":1654.512,"endTime":1658.782,"body":"it internally so that all of the other"},{"startTime":1658.782,"endTime":1664.232,"body":"people from that group of high interest,"},{"startTime":1658.782,"endTime":1664.232,"body":"low power could watch the Sprint Review."},{"startTime":1664.552,"endTime":1666.732,"body":"And they might have contacts they"},{"startTime":1664.552,"endTime":1666.732,"body":"might have some thoughts on the"},{"startTime":1666.732,"endTime":1669.937,"body":"channel or whatever but normally they"},{"startTime":1666.732,"endTime":1669.937,"body":"would take it internal to the group."},{"startTime":1670.382,"endTime":1674.332,"body":"First, and then they would talk"},{"startTime":1670.382,"endTime":1674.332,"body":"about what they felt strongly about."},{"startTime":1674.372,"endTime":1677.442,"body":"then I would get the cliff notes"},{"startTime":1674.372,"endTime":1677.442,"body":"version of that, at that company, it"},{"startTime":1677.442,"endTime":1682.282,"body":"was actually quite an efficient model of"},{"startTime":1677.442,"endTime":1682.282,"body":"getting a lot of discussion happening."},{"startTime":1682.582,"endTime":1686.362,"body":"Without me in the room filtering it"},{"startTime":1682.582,"endTime":1686.362,"body":"down distilling the best advice out"},{"startTime":1686.362,"endTime":1689.262,"body":"of it that would get back to me So"},{"startTime":1686.362,"endTime":1689.262,"body":"it actually saved me a lot of time."},{"startTime":1689.342,"endTime":1692.732,"body":"I was gonna say yeah it could be your"},{"startTime":1689.342,"endTime":1692.732,"body":"ally really as a broke person, right?"},{"startTime":1693.032,"endTime":1697.652,"body":"Again, I will always say I do not"},{"startTime":1693.032,"endTime":1697.652,"body":"prefer recording the meetings you"},{"startTime":1697.652,"endTime":1701.272,"body":"should be at the meetings if you have"},{"startTime":1697.652,"endTime":1701.272,"body":"actual interest and want to have a"},{"startTime":1701.272,"endTime":1703.912,"body":"say but also It did kind of work out."},{"startTime":1703.942,"endTime":1706.642,"body":"You don't want to give them reasons"},{"startTime":1703.942,"endTime":1706.642,"body":"to skip your meeting, they say, well,"},{"startTime":1706.642,"endTime":1707.812,"body":"don't worry, this will be recorded."},{"startTime":1707.952,"endTime":1708.782,"body":"That's the problem."},{"startTime":1708.892,"endTime":1710.282,"body":"People are like, oh, it'll be recorded."},{"startTime":1710.322,"endTime":1712.822,"body":"I don't need to show up at all it"},{"startTime":1710.322,"endTime":1712.822,"body":"takes time to get around that kind"},{"startTime":1712.822,"endTime":1714.242,"body":"of behavior, but it can be done."},{"startTime":1714.322,"endTime":1714.672,"body":"Okay."},{"startTime":1714.722,"endTime":1715.952,"body":"Let's go back to the grid."},{"startTime":1715.982,"endTime":1720.272,"body":"So we'll, we'll diagonally"},{"startTime":1715.982,"endTime":1720.272,"body":"move or diagonally move down"},{"startTime":1720.702,"endTime":1724.182,"body":"to context setters, the consult"},{"startTime":1720.702,"endTime":1724.182,"body":"block, which is the high power."},{"startTime":1724.472,"endTime":1730.692,"body":"Low interest, a interesting category"},{"startTime":1724.472,"endTime":1730.692,"body":"for me, high power, low interest."},{"startTime":1730.692,"endTime":1733.355,"body":"I'm going to read again from"},{"startTime":1730.692,"endTime":1733.355,"body":"the 2015 article,  he says"},{"startTime":1733.415,"endTime":1735.735,"body":"Roman Pichler, smooth jazz."},{"startTime":1735.795,"endTime":1739.045,"body":"He says, people with low interest"},{"startTime":1735.795,"endTime":1739.045,"body":"but high power are called"},{"startTime":1739.105,"endTime":1741.775,"body":"context setters or referees."},{"startTime":1742.195,"endTime":1744.305,"body":"They affect the product's context."},{"startTime":1744.49,"endTime":1746.95,"body":"But they take little interest"},{"startTime":1744.49,"endTime":1746.95,"body":"in the product itself."},{"startTime":1747.3,"endTime":1750.4,"body":"An example is the person in"},{"startTime":1747.3,"endTime":1750.4,"body":"charge of the development group."},{"startTime":1750.76,"endTime":1754.06,"body":"If the individual does not help staff"},{"startTime":1750.76,"endTime":1754.06,"body":"the development team properly, then the"},{"startTime":1754.07,"endTime":1756.63,"body":"success of the product may be at risk."},{"startTime":1756.82,"endTime":1760.11,"body":"Make sure that the context setters"},{"startTime":1756.82,"endTime":1760.11,"body":"feel that their opinions, concerns,"},{"startTime":1760.14,"endTime":1761.91,"body":"and ideas are heard and understood."},{"startTime":1762.15,"endTime":1765.57,"body":"Regularly consult them, for instance,"},{"startTime":1762.15,"endTime":1765.57,"body":"by having one on one meetings."},{"startTime":1765.84,"endTime":1768.55,"body":"This ensures that their ideas"},{"startTime":1765.84,"endTime":1768.55,"body":"and concerns are heard And"},{"startTime":1768.55,"endTime":1770.72,"body":"helps avoid nasty surprises."},{"startTime":1771.15,"endTime":1773.48,"body":"Don't let the context setters"},{"startTime":1771.15,"endTime":1773.48,"body":"intimidate you and don't allow"},{"startTime":1773.48,"endTime":1774.76,"body":"them to dictate decisions."},{"startTime":1774.77,"endTime":1778.52,"body":"Be strong and have the courage"},{"startTime":1774.77,"endTime":1778.52,"body":"to say no, even if faced with a"},{"startTime":1778.52,"endTime":1781.0,"body":"powerful and pushy stakeholder."},{"startTime":1781.41,"endTime":1783.18,"body":"Now  I have some  examples"},{"startTime":1781.41,"endTime":1783.18,"body":"of context setters."},{"startTime":1783.18,"endTime":1787.47,"body":"It says peer executives to your"},{"startTime":1783.18,"endTime":1787.47,"body":"sponsor, your hiring manager Compliance"},{"startTime":1787.47,"endTime":1791.09,"body":"and security officers, architectural"},{"startTime":1787.47,"endTime":1791.09,"body":"review boards, enterprise architects"},{"startTime":1791.09,"endTime":1794.71,"body":"if you have them budget committee"},{"startTime":1791.09,"endTime":1794.71,"body":"members, legal team members."},{"startTime":1795.01,"endTime":1797.39,"body":"basically everybody else"},{"startTime":1795.01,"endTime":1797.39,"body":"is what I'm seeing here."},{"startTime":1797.39,"endTime":1801.085,"body":"I like that, the big people in"},{"startTime":1797.39,"endTime":1801.085,"body":"this category for me, Executives."},{"startTime":1801.455,"endTime":1801.985,"body":"Absolutely."},{"startTime":1801.985,"endTime":1805.345,"body":"These are context setters or"},{"startTime":1801.985,"endTime":1805.345,"body":"referees that want to be involved."},{"startTime":1805.345,"endTime":1808.315,"body":"Oh, you know who else I didn't write"},{"startTime":1805.345,"endTime":1808.315,"body":"down These are like your key sales"},{"startTime":1808.315,"endTime":1810.315,"body":"folks, like your senior sales folks."},{"startTime":1810.565,"endTime":1814.685,"body":"if you have a VP of sales or  the people"},{"startTime":1810.565,"endTime":1814.685,"body":"that lead the sales team, those types"},{"startTime":1814.685,"endTime":1818.825,"body":"of folks, you absolutely need to say"},{"startTime":1814.685,"endTime":1818.825,"body":"like, well, where do you see the future?"},{"startTime":1819.115,"endTime":1821.345,"body":"You know meaning  here's"},{"startTime":1819.115,"endTime":1821.345,"body":"the feature of the product."},{"startTime":1821.645,"endTime":1826.705,"body":"I need to make sure that customers"},{"startTime":1821.645,"endTime":1826.705,"body":"want to buy in the way that we're"},{"startTime":1826.705,"endTime":1828.245,"body":"planning to develop our features."},{"startTime":1828.565,"endTime":1829.855,"body":"Who's the person that knows that?"},{"startTime":1829.885,"endTime":1833.725,"body":"It's gonna be these high level"},{"startTime":1829.885,"endTime":1833.725,"body":"sales folks in the organization."},{"startTime":1833.735,"endTime":1836.655,"body":"that's just good advice that"},{"startTime":1833.735,"endTime":1836.655,"body":"you should be seeking anyway."},{"startTime":1836.955,"endTime":1842.515,"body":"But  in the purpose of the quad here what"},{"startTime":1836.955,"endTime":1842.515,"body":"is the right, I mean, these people are,"},{"startTime":1842.765,"endTime":1844.795,"body":"not going to come to your sprint reviews."},{"startTime":1845.055,"endTime":1848.095,"body":"So what is the right comms"},{"startTime":1845.055,"endTime":1848.095,"body":"plan for these folks?"},{"startTime":1848.145,"endTime":1852.745,"body":"I think of other businesses I've been"},{"startTime":1848.145,"endTime":1852.745,"body":"in that you do like the quarterly all"},{"startTime":1852.755,"endTime":1854.455,"body":"business review type of quarterly roadmap."},{"startTime":1854.755,"endTime":1857.685,"body":"this is where we were at, this is what"},{"startTime":1854.755,"endTime":1857.685,"body":"we learned, this is when we adjusted."},{"startTime":1857.925,"endTime":1859.445,"body":"This is what we're planning"},{"startTime":1857.925,"endTime":1859.445,"body":"to do in the next quarter."},{"startTime":1859.455,"endTime":1864.015,"body":"The quarterly planning, Caden it"},{"startTime":1859.455,"endTime":1864.015,"body":"makes sense to make a real solid"},{"startTime":1864.015,"endTime":1866.365,"body":"effort to make sure these people"},{"startTime":1864.015,"endTime":1866.365,"body":"are in the quarterly planning."},{"startTime":1866.665,"endTime":1870.095,"body":"Because if they're not, you can make"},{"startTime":1866.665,"endTime":1870.095,"body":"some bets that are just unhinged."},{"startTime":1870.285,"endTime":1871.57,"body":"disconnected from reality."},{"startTime":1872.06,"endTime":1873.4,"body":"Yes, and I agree with that."},{"startTime":1873.43,"endTime":1877.16,"body":"they should be aware that there's"},{"startTime":1873.43,"endTime":1877.16,"body":"alignment here that you're seeking with"},{"startTime":1877.16,"endTime":1880.49,"body":"them in terms of the direction you're"},{"startTime":1877.16,"endTime":1880.49,"body":"heading in the next three months The"},{"startTime":1880.49,"endTime":1885.385,"body":"other constituency that should be present"},{"startTime":1880.49,"endTime":1885.385,"body":"here in this particular square is if you"},{"startTime":1885.395,"endTime":1890.685,"body":"have, let's say a, a user group where"},{"startTime":1885.395,"endTime":1890.685,"body":"your customers bandied together, there's a"},{"startTime":1890.695,"endTime":1896.515,"body":"user group the power of many basically get"},{"startTime":1890.695,"endTime":1896.515,"body":"them into this as well because they, they"},{"startTime":1896.515,"endTime":1898.705,"body":"can tell you things that you've missed."},{"startTime":1898.965,"endTime":1901.805,"body":"You've probably talked to"},{"startTime":1898.965,"endTime":1901.805,"body":"users probably on an individual"},{"startTime":1901.805,"endTime":1903.105,"body":"level, more likely than not."},{"startTime":1903.205,"endTime":1903.415,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":1903.525,"endTime":1904.995,"body":"Collectively, you could hear from them."},{"startTime":1905.355,"endTime":1906.485,"body":"You can hear other things like."},{"startTime":1906.8,"endTime":1909.8,"body":"In their own areas, there could"},{"startTime":1906.8,"endTime":1909.8,"body":"be regularity changes coming down."},{"startTime":1909.8,"endTime":1912.12,"body":"You might be blindsided to that"},{"startTime":1909.8,"endTime":1912.12,"body":"because you're not involved."},{"startTime":1912.12,"endTime":1912.67,"body":"It's not your fault."},{"startTime":1912.7,"endTime":1913.39,"body":"You're not involved."},{"startTime":1913.45,"endTime":1917.02,"body":"would this be your software"},{"startTime":1913.45,"endTime":1917.02,"body":"buyer as well in this category?"},{"startTime":1917.03,"endTime":1917.76,"body":"If you're a B2B?"},{"startTime":1917.76,"endTime":1919.34,"body":"Yes, in the B2B, absolutely."},{"startTime":1919.35,"endTime":1919.56,"body":"Yes."},{"startTime":1919.56,"endTime":1919.97,"body":"Okay."},{"startTime":1920.0,"endTime":1920.32,"body":"Yes."},{"startTime":1920.33,"endTime":1923.35,"body":"So one on ones I mean,  I"},{"startTime":1920.33,"endTime":1923.35,"body":"outlined the quarterly business"},{"startTime":1923.35,"endTime":1924.21,"body":"review, stuff like that."},{"startTime":1924.51,"endTime":1926.91,"body":"One on ones obviously"},{"startTime":1924.51,"endTime":1926.91,"body":"would be another one."},{"startTime":1926.91,"endTime":1930.21,"body":"you probably should do those on"},{"startTime":1926.91,"endTime":1930.21,"body":"some kind of rolling cadence."},{"startTime":1930.26,"endTime":1932.76,"body":"Some people in this category are very"},{"startTime":1930.26,"endTime":1932.76,"body":"difficult to get ahold of because"},{"startTime":1932.77,"endTime":1933.88,"body":"they're executives or whatever."},{"startTime":1934.18,"endTime":1939.49,"body":"software buyers,  you talk to these people"},{"startTime":1934.18,"endTime":1939.49,"body":"by going to them when you work in product"},{"startTime":1939.49,"endTime":1942.34,"body":"or sales you fly out to wherever they are."},{"startTime":1942.58,"endTime":1944.381,"body":"the frequency, we haven't"},{"startTime":1942.58,"endTime":1944.381,"body":"talked about the frequency."},{"startTime":1944.381,"endTime":1945.171,"body":"account visits."},{"startTime":1945.186,"endTime":1946.386,"body":"your salespeople are doing this too."},{"startTime":1946.386,"endTime":1949.646,"body":"So you, as a product manager, can"},{"startTime":1946.386,"endTime":1949.646,"body":"sign on to some of their trips."},{"startTime":1949.646,"endTime":1949.886,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":1950.186,"endTime":1952.876,"body":"So the context setters, he has quarterly."},{"startTime":1953.336,"endTime":1954.436,"body":"In one on one meetings."},{"startTime":1954.546,"endTime":1958.496,"body":"like I can see if you're saying a bare"},{"startTime":1954.546,"endTime":1958.496,"body":"minimum perspective, I'll agree with that."},{"startTime":1958.496,"endTime":1961.036,"body":"these people are definitely going to"},{"startTime":1958.496,"endTime":1961.036,"body":"be in your quarterly business review."},{"startTime":1961.076,"endTime":1961.336,"body":"Yep."},{"startTime":1961.656,"endTime":1965.806,"body":"I would say one on one, it'd"},{"startTime":1961.656,"endTime":1965.806,"body":"be nice to be every month."},{"startTime":1966.106,"endTime":1968.076,"body":"I don't know if you're going to"},{"startTime":1966.106,"endTime":1968.076,"body":"get these people every month."},{"startTime":1968.176,"endTime":1969.826,"body":"Are you going to have the bandwidth?"},{"startTime":1970.016,"endTime":1971.066,"body":"Possibly not, right?"},{"startTime":1971.116,"endTime":1972.826,"body":"But again, this doesn't have to be binary."},{"startTime":1972.866,"endTime":1976.796,"body":"Maybe you have some, very high profile"},{"startTime":1972.866,"endTime":1976.796,"body":"customers, you can reach out to as"},{"startTime":1976.796,"endTime":1980.676,"body":"often as you can but others, you"},{"startTime":1976.796,"endTime":1980.676,"body":"may not be able to find the time on"},{"startTime":1980.676,"endTime":1982.196,"body":"the calendar for them or yourself."},{"startTime":1982.596,"endTime":1985.426,"body":"So you have to find some"},{"startTime":1982.596,"endTime":1985.426,"body":"other way of doing it, right?"},{"startTime":1985.466,"endTime":1989.986,"body":"Which might be in the form of an open"},{"startTime":1985.466,"endTime":1989.986,"body":"meeting, like a town hall type of thing,"},{"startTime":1989.986,"endTime":1994.166,"body":"but with external people, Struggling to"},{"startTime":1989.986,"endTime":1994.166,"body":"figure out a decent term for that, but"},{"startTime":1994.506,"endTime":1995.976,"body":"awareness meetings, things like that."},{"startTime":1995.976,"endTime":1999.226,"body":"Yeah so it's not one or the"},{"startTime":1995.976,"endTime":1999.226,"body":"other, you could find yourself"},{"startTime":1999.226,"endTime":2001.516,"body":"doing one and the other, depends."},{"startTime":2001.816,"endTime":2004.806,"body":"It's that contextual nature of it.,"},{"startTime":2001.816,"endTime":2004.806,"body":"the account management thing is"},{"startTime":2004.806,"endTime":2007.446,"body":"what's rattling around in my brain"},{"startTime":2004.806,"endTime":2007.446,"body":"right now there are opportunities"},{"startTime":2007.446,"endTime":2010.806,"body":"to bring these people in the VP of"},{"startTime":2007.446,"endTime":2010.806,"body":"sales is going to have a constant."},{"startTime":2011.106,"endTime":2015.856,"body":"Account management, like world tour going"},{"startTime":2011.106,"endTime":2015.856,"body":"on, regardless if you're there or not."},{"startTime":2016.316,"endTime":2023.076,"body":"So if you can, like that, that touch point"},{"startTime":2016.316,"endTime":2023.076,"body":"becomes sometimes they're in a internal"},{"startTime":2023.146,"endTime":2027.616,"body":"quarterly roadmap review meeting where"},{"startTime":2023.146,"endTime":2027.616,"body":"they're just kind of listening and you're"},{"startTime":2027.736,"endTime":2029.206,"body":"trying to pull them into the conversation."},{"startTime":2029.506,"endTime":2033.226,"body":"the one on one that I've written down"},{"startTime":2029.506,"endTime":2033.226,"body":"here is you joining one of their account"},{"startTime":2033.246,"endTime":2039.246,"body":"management visits or demos  you finding"},{"startTime":2033.246,"endTime":2039.246,"body":"a place on their calendar to show up"},{"startTime":2039.616,"endTime":2043.766,"body":"and interact with in the normal day,"},{"startTime":2039.616,"endTime":2043.766,"body":"you basically make a one on one out"},{"startTime":2043.786,"endTime":2046.206,"body":"of you supporting their initiatives."},{"startTime":2046.406,"endTime":2050.066,"body":"I would look for this, this is"},{"startTime":2046.406,"endTime":2050.066,"body":"probably the messiest category, this"},{"startTime":2050.066,"endTime":2053.146,"body":"context center, because they're super"},{"startTime":2050.066,"endTime":2053.146,"body":"busy and they're not necessarily"},{"startTime":2053.146,"endTime":2054.116,"body":"going to make time for you."},{"startTime":2054.576,"endTime":2054.996,"body":"You know what I mean?"},{"startTime":2055.126,"endTime":2059.446,"body":"Until you start doing something that they"},{"startTime":2055.126,"endTime":2059.446,"body":"disagree with and now they're gonna be"},{"startTime":2059.446,"endTime":2061.666,"body":"like, Wiley Coyote, it's too late by then."},{"startTime":2061.666,"endTime":2062.416,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":2062.416,"endTime":2063.586,"body":"I feel like you gotta get ahead of that."},{"startTime":2063.586,"endTime":2065.026,"body":"So, yeah, it's tricky."},{"startTime":2065.026,"endTime":2065.566,"body":"I agree."},{"startTime":2065.566,"endTime":2068.861,"body":"This is a tricky category, you"},{"startTime":2065.566,"endTime":2068.861,"body":"might have to go to them more than"},{"startTime":2068.861,"endTime":2070.891,"body":"the other categories that we've"},{"startTime":2068.861,"endTime":2070.891,"body":"talked about you might have to"},{"startTime":2070.891,"endTime":2072.391,"body":"integrate into their schedule."},{"startTime":2072.691,"endTime":2074.171,"body":"Yeah, I absolutely agree with that."},{"startTime":2074.391,"endTime":2075.711,"body":"Well, I mean, I'm fine with that."},{"startTime":2075.711,"endTime":2077.711,"body":"I actually kind of prefer that."},{"startTime":2077.751,"endTime":2079.641,"body":"It makes you more visible."},{"startTime":2079.881,"endTime":2081.331,"body":", it gets you more context."},{"startTime":2081.551,"endTime":2084.831,"body":"Especially if you're in a kind of"},{"startTime":2081.551,"endTime":2084.831,"body":"environment in product development"},{"startTime":2084.841,"endTime":2088.591,"body":"where the customer is kind of gated"},{"startTime":2084.841,"endTime":2088.591,"body":"off and it's hard to get to the"},{"startTime":2088.591,"endTime":2091.631,"body":"customer, which a lot of people are"},{"startTime":2088.591,"endTime":2091.631,"body":"in that we don't really talk about."},{"startTime":2092.051,"endTime":2093.771,"body":"We should have a podcast just on that."},{"startTime":2094.151,"endTime":2096.631,"body":"It's like, hey, there's a lot of people"},{"startTime":2094.151,"endTime":2096.631,"body":"out there saying that you should talk"},{"startTime":2096.671,"endTime":2100.166,"body":"to the customer every day how regular"},{"startTime":2096.671,"endTime":2100.166,"body":"really is that?, for product managers."},{"startTime":2100.176,"endTime":2102.966,"body":"It's worthy of a whole session by itself."},{"startTime":2103.086,"endTime":2103.636,"body":"I agree."},{"startTime":2103.936,"endTime":2104.176,"body":"Okay."},{"startTime":2104.176,"endTime":2105.266,"body":"we have one category left."},{"startTime":2105.266,"endTime":2110.022,"body":"now we're going to go up to"},{"startTime":2105.266,"endTime":2110.022,"body":"high interest, high power."},{"startTime":2110.212,"endTime":2112.082,"body":"They are the quote players."},{"startTime":2112.252,"endTime":2113.982,"body":"Who are these people?"},{"startTime":2114.042,"endTime":2115.382,"body":"They're your direct."},{"startTime":2115.672,"endTime":2116.952,"body":"Executive sponsor."},{"startTime":2117.202,"endTime":2118.412,"body":"They're the person you work for."},{"startTime":2118.702,"endTime":2120.662,"body":"They're the person you work"},{"startTime":2118.702,"endTime":2120.662,"body":"for as a product manager."},{"startTime":2120.882,"endTime":2125.392,"body":"they potentially could be the"},{"startTime":2120.882,"endTime":2125.392,"body":"product manager or key business"},{"startTime":2125.392,"endTime":2127.672,"body":"stakeholder if you're trying"},{"startTime":2125.392,"endTime":2127.672,"body":"to integrate with the system."},{"startTime":2127.732,"endTime":2129.262,"body":"They could be the person"},{"startTime":2127.732,"endTime":2129.262,"body":"that pays the budget."},{"startTime":2129.312,"endTime":2130.532,"body":"They could be the person"},{"startTime":2129.312,"endTime":2130.532,"body":"that pays the bills."},{"startTime":2130.887,"endTime":2134.847,"body":"they definitely have high power and"},{"startTime":2130.887,"endTime":2134.847,"body":"probably also high interest, right?"},{"startTime":2135.147,"endTime":2137.667,"body":"they also could be a"},{"startTime":2135.147,"endTime":2137.667,"body":"steering committee member."},{"startTime":2137.757,"endTime":2140.917,"body":"We don't really talk about that too often"},{"startTime":2137.757,"endTime":2140.917,"body":"on the podcast, that kind of arrangement."},{"startTime":2141.217,"endTime":2144.007,"body":"Could be a member of the product"},{"startTime":2141.217,"endTime":2144.007,"body":"council, if not all of the"},{"startTime":2144.008,"endTime":2145.467,"body":"product council, if you have that."},{"startTime":2145.687,"endTime":2148.297,"body":"you might be in an environment where"},{"startTime":2145.687,"endTime":2148.297,"body":"you have a group product manager"},{"startTime":2148.297,"endTime":2150.417,"body":"where you work directly for, you know"},{"startTime":2148.297,"endTime":2150.417,"body":"what I mean, so they could be either"},{"startTime":2150.417,"endTime":2154.477,"body":"that person or the CPO, in product"},{"startTime":2150.417,"endTime":2154.477,"body":"it could be several layers of people"},{"startTime":2154.527,"endTime":2156.147,"body":"And they could all be in this category."},{"startTime":2156.497,"endTime":2161.527,"body":"Yeah  major client representatives"},{"startTime":2156.497,"endTime":2161.527,"body":"go in this category as well."},{"startTime":2161.527,"endTime":2164.247,"body":"If you're a product manager and this"},{"startTime":2161.527,"endTime":2164.247,"body":"is your group product manager director"},{"startTime":2164.257,"endTime":2168.057,"body":"of product or chief product officer"},{"startTime":2164.257,"endTime":2168.057,"body":"or whatever, I mean like weekly one on"},{"startTime":2168.057,"endTime":2171.757,"body":"ones is like the, the cadence here of"},{"startTime":2168.057,"endTime":2171.757,"body":"like the, they need to, because you're"},{"startTime":2171.757,"endTime":2177.207,"body":"probably taking your cues from their"},{"startTime":2171.757,"endTime":2177.207,"body":"direction and you're probably making"},{"startTime":2177.217,"endTime":2181.177,"body":"bets and kind of like I was going to"},{"startTime":2177.217,"endTime":2181.177,"body":"say flying planes and cashing checks,"},{"startTime":2181.177,"endTime":2184.167,"body":"whatever, whatever the Ric Flair thing is,"},{"startTime":2181.177,"endTime":2184.167,"body":"or you're flying checks and cash  you're"},{"startTime":2184.167,"endTime":2188.777,"body":"doing milestone meetings where you're"},{"startTime":2184.167,"endTime":2188.777,"body":"saying, I'm about to test this thing"},{"startTime":2188.787,"endTime":2190.367,"body":"because I think this is the next feature."},{"startTime":2190.537,"endTime":2192.897,"body":"Remember at the start of the"},{"startTime":2190.537,"endTime":2192.897,"body":"podcast, I was talking about."},{"startTime":2193.382,"endTime":2195.872,"body":"when you're about to wrap an epic, and"},{"startTime":2193.382,"endTime":2195.872,"body":"start a new one, How do we know what"},{"startTime":2195.872,"endTime":2197.612,"body":"the next thing we're going into is?"},{"startTime":2197.612,"endTime":2201.062,"body":"Like, I probably am running some tests"},{"startTime":2197.612,"endTime":2201.062,"body":"and I probably make some decisions"},{"startTime":2201.062,"endTime":2204.362,"body":"about what tests to run based off"},{"startTime":2201.062,"endTime":2204.362,"body":"of like my intuition or whatever,"},{"startTime":2204.662,"endTime":2207.382,"body":"but I'm checking that to make sure"},{"startTime":2204.662,"endTime":2207.382,"body":"it's in line with our strategy."},{"startTime":2207.542,"endTime":2208.732,"body":"These are the people I check with."},{"startTime":2209.032,"endTime":2214.182,"body":"oftentimes a category of people, that come"},{"startTime":2209.032,"endTime":2214.182,"body":"into this box is your PMO if you have one."},{"startTime":2214.482,"endTime":2217.632,"body":"I'm talking about the project"},{"startTime":2214.482,"endTime":2217.632,"body":"management organization."},{"startTime":2217.652,"endTime":2219.402,"body":"Especially when they"},{"startTime":2217.652,"endTime":2219.402,"body":"control the purse strings."},{"startTime":2219.412,"endTime":2222.702,"body":"and want to have those phase"},{"startTime":2219.412,"endTime":2222.702,"body":"gate reviews at this stage."},{"startTime":2222.882,"endTime":2225.252,"body":"So, to your point about"},{"startTime":2222.882,"endTime":2225.252,"body":"controlling the purse strings."},{"startTime":2225.432,"endTime":2228.132,"body":"You know, the go, no go"},{"startTime":2225.432,"endTime":2228.132,"body":"decisions and so forth, right?"},{"startTime":2228.552,"endTime":2229.872,"body":"they have . High power, high intent."},{"startTime":2230.172,"endTime":2232.842,"body":"So it says collaborate with the players."},{"startTime":2232.892,"endTime":2236.772,"body":"Stakeholders with high interest"},{"startTime":2232.892,"endTime":2236.772,"body":"and high power are called players."},{"startTime":2237.072,"endTime":2238.052,"body":"Sorry, they're not called players."},{"startTime":2238.342,"endTime":2239.132,"body":"They're called players."},{"startTime":2239.512,"endTime":2242.712,"body":"These individuals are important"},{"startTime":2239.512,"endTime":2242.712,"body":"partners for you as the product manager."},{"startTime":2243.012,"endTime":2245.432,"body":"You should therefore collaborate"},{"startTime":2243.012,"endTime":2245.432,"body":"with them closely, for instance,"},{"startTime":2245.432,"endTime":2248.492,"body":"by inviting them to product"},{"startTime":2245.432,"endTime":2248.492,"body":"strategy and roadmapping workshops."},{"startTime":2248.542,"endTime":2249.532,"body":"They want input."},{"startTime":2250.007,"endTime":2252.867,"body":"And the ability to move some"},{"startTime":2250.007,"endTime":2252.867,"body":"pieces around on the board."},{"startTime":2252.967,"endTime":2254.767,"body":"what bet are we going to make next?"},{"startTime":2255.067,"endTime":2256.187,"body":"Where are we going to go next?"},{"startTime":2256.247,"endTime":2256.657,"body":"Right."},{"startTime":2256.687,"endTime":2258.237,"body":"Make those trade off discussions, right?"},{"startTime":2258.237,"endTime":2258.837,"body":"Absolutely."},{"startTime":2258.857,"endTime":2259.287,"body":"Absolutely."},{"startTime":2259.357,"endTime":2261.307,"body":"What are we giving up by doing this thing?"},{"startTime":2261.317,"endTime":2261.727,"body":"Right."},{"startTime":2261.787,"endTime":2263.257,"body":"They want to be consulted on that."},{"startTime":2263.267,"endTime":2265.527,"body":"They aim to secure their buy in."},{"startTime":2265.747,"endTime":2268.377,"body":"Leverage your ideas and knowledge"},{"startTime":2265.747,"endTime":2268.377,"body":"and establish a close and"},{"startTime":2268.377,"endTime":2270.247,"body":"trustful relationship with them."},{"startTime":2270.467,"endTime":2275.277,"body":"I like the way that he put this it makes"},{"startTime":2270.467,"endTime":2275.277,"body":"me feel warm and fuzzy inside I hope that"},{"startTime":2275.277,"endTime":2278.647,"body":"you're in an organization where your chief"},{"startTime":2275.277,"endTime":2278.647,"body":"product officer has product experience."},{"startTime":2278.647,"endTime":2281.387,"body":"That's what i'm saying I was gonna"},{"startTime":2278.647,"endTime":2281.387,"body":"say 90 percent of companies, but"},{"startTime":2281.607,"endTime":2284.597,"body":"that might come Yeah, yeah, I don't"},{"startTime":2281.607,"endTime":2284.597,"body":"know about 90 but it's a big percent."},{"startTime":2284.687,"endTime":2287.547,"body":"Let's say additionally, ensure"},{"startTime":2284.687,"endTime":2287.547,"body":"that the individuals are involved."},{"startTime":2287.857,"endTime":2291.677,"body":"with the product on a continuing basis"},{"startTime":2287.857,"endTime":2291.677,"body":"to avoid loss of knowledge and handoffs."},{"startTime":2291.727,"endTime":2292.547,"body":"Avoid handoffs."},{"startTime":2292.747,"endTime":2293.747,"body":"Thanks, Roman Pichler."},{"startTime":2294.047,"endTime":2296.357,"body":"take that to your PMI"},{"startTime":2294.047,"endTime":2296.357,"body":"Agile Alliance meeting."},{"startTime":2296.357,"endTime":2297.197,"body":"Next time it happens."},{"startTime":2297.651,"endTime":2301.251,"body":"is undesirable for instance, that"},{"startTime":2297.651,"endTime":2301.251,"body":"the marketing group sends a new"},{"startTime":2301.251,"endTime":2305.031,"body":"representative every time a strategy"},{"startTime":2301.251,"endTime":2305.031,"body":"workshop or review meeting takes place."},{"startTime":2305.221,"endTime":2308.701,"body":"Instead one marketer should"},{"startTime":2305.221,"endTime":2308.701,"body":"represent the group on a continued."},{"startTime":2309.726,"endTime":2315.156,"body":"So yeah, you want deep, long lasting,"},{"startTime":2309.726,"endTime":2315.156,"body":"relationships with this category."},{"startTime":2315.176,"endTime":2317.106,"body":"Otherwise they are not in this category."},{"startTime":2317.406,"endTime":2321.346,"body":"They think they might want to be in this"},{"startTime":2317.406,"endTime":2321.346,"body":"category, but they can't spare the time."},{"startTime":2321.606,"endTime":2323.026,"body":"They can't spare the focus."},{"startTime":2323.126,"endTime":2325.046,"body":"Bear in mind that collaboration"},{"startTime":2323.126,"endTime":2325.046,"body":"requires leadership."},{"startTime":2325.336,"endTime":2329.076,"body":"you should be open and collaborative,"},{"startTime":2325.336,"endTime":2329.076,"body":"but decisive at the same time."},{"startTime":2329.126,"endTime":2332.166,"body":"Aim to build consensus with"},{"startTime":2329.126,"endTime":2332.166,"body":"the players and don't shy away"},{"startTime":2332.166,"endTime":2333.356,"body":"from difficult conversations."},{"startTime":2333.656,"endTime":2335.996,"body":"See our episode, Crucial"},{"startTime":2333.656,"endTime":2335.996,"body":"Conversations 198."},{"startTime":2336.236,"endTime":2338.866,"body":"Don't settle for the smallest common"},{"startTime":2336.236,"endTime":2338.866,"body":"denominator and have the courage to make."},{"startTime":2339.216,"endTime":2341.596,"body":"A decision if no"},{"startTime":2339.216,"endTime":2341.596,"body":"agreement can be achieved."},{"startTime":2341.856,"endTime":2344.566,"body":"I think if you're collaborating"},{"startTime":2341.856,"endTime":2344.566,"body":"with the right playas."},{"startTime":2344.866,"endTime":2347.456,"body":"Sorry, I don't know why I"},{"startTime":2344.866,"endTime":2347.456,"body":"can't, I can't say players."},{"startTime":2347.456,"endTime":2348.846,"body":"I, it's impossible."},{"startTime":2349.126,"endTime":2351.066,"body":"I was, I lived through"},{"startTime":2349.126,"endTime":2351.066,"body":"the 90s, that's why."},{"startTime":2351.296,"endTime":2354.116,"body":"If you're collaborating with the"},{"startTime":2351.296,"endTime":2354.116,"body":"right folks, you're not going to get"},{"startTime":2354.126,"endTime":2356.206,"body":"in the, oh, we can't make a decision."},{"startTime":2356.506,"endTime":2359.736,"body":"The folks that I think of"},{"startTime":2356.506,"endTime":2359.736,"body":"that all fit in this category."},{"startTime":2360.146,"endTime":2363.026,"body":"They, they're, they're purely"},{"startTime":2360.146,"endTime":2363.026,"body":"like mode one thinking."},{"startTime":2363.076,"endTime":2366.456,"body":"You haven't finished saying what you want"},{"startTime":2363.076,"endTime":2366.456,"body":"to say they've already made a decision."},{"startTime":2366.826,"endTime":2367.606,"body":"forget evidence."},{"startTime":2367.606,"endTime":2371.056,"body":"They've already made their decision that's"},{"startTime":2367.606,"endTime":2371.056,"body":"the type of people I'm thinking of here."},{"startTime":2371.086,"endTime":2371.746,"body":"I get what he's saying."},{"startTime":2371.746,"endTime":2374.996,"body":"I'm glad I read the whole section because"},{"startTime":2371.746,"endTime":2374.996,"body":"there was some good stuff in there."},{"startTime":2375.096,"endTime":2375.426,"body":"Agreed."},{"startTime":2375.426,"endTime":2375.966,"body":"Absolutely."},{"startTime":2375.971,"endTime":2380.061,"body":"one of the points that you started"},{"startTime":2375.971,"endTime":2380.061,"body":"off this category with is, and I"},{"startTime":2380.061,"endTime":2382.701,"body":"think he mentions that you don't want"},{"startTime":2380.061,"endTime":2382.701,"body":"somebody new coming in every time."},{"startTime":2382.701,"endTime":2385.451,"body":"historical context matters,"},{"startTime":2382.701,"endTime":2385.451,"body":"if you have the same."},{"startTime":2385.751,"endTime":2389.941,"body":"Group, ideally person, but"},{"startTime":2385.751,"endTime":2389.941,"body":"group attending, you can have"},{"startTime":2389.941,"endTime":2394.191,"body":"a meaningful discussion with"},{"startTime":2389.941,"endTime":2394.191,"body":"outcomes that are realistic, right?"},{"startTime":2394.511,"endTime":2398.061,"body":"Well, if you have somebody new, the"},{"startTime":2394.511,"endTime":2398.061,"body":"best you can get out of that is I'll"},{"startTime":2398.061,"endTime":2400.841,"body":"get back to you and you don't want"},{"startTime":2398.061,"endTime":2400.841,"body":"that because that's a waste, right?"},{"startTime":2401.141,"endTime":2402.551,"body":"So yeah, I do agree with Roman here."},{"startTime":2402.641,"endTime":2407.111,"body":"something interesting about his players"},{"startTime":2402.641,"endTime":2407.111,"body":"category is the frequency you invite"},{"startTime":2407.111,"endTime":2411.091,"body":"them to your sprint reviews and your"},{"startTime":2407.111,"endTime":2411.091,"body":"collaborative workshops, including"},{"startTime":2411.091,"endTime":2412.781,"body":"strategy and roadmap workshops"},{"startTime":2412.821,"endTime":2416.201,"body":"I think roadmap workshops are like"},{"startTime":2412.821,"endTime":2416.201,"body":"the quarterly meeting we were talking"},{"startTime":2416.201,"endTime":2417.151,"body":"about with the context setters."},{"startTime":2417.451,"endTime":2420.941,"body":"They're kind of straddling the"},{"startTime":2417.451,"endTime":2420.941,"body":"business strategy sessions, kind"},{"startTime":2420.941,"endTime":2422.311,"body":"of what I think of as quarterlies."},{"startTime":2422.611,"endTime":2427.171,"body":"And they're also straddling,"},{"startTime":2422.611,"endTime":2427.171,"body":"where the subjects were the high"},{"startTime":2427.231,"endTime":2429.801,"body":"interest, low power folks where"},{"startTime":2427.231,"endTime":2429.801,"body":"they're going to use sprint reviews."},{"startTime":2429.851,"endTime":2434.201,"body":"So that's interesting to me that"},{"startTime":2429.851,"endTime":2434.201,"body":"they're kind of straddling both worlds."},{"startTime":2434.501,"endTime":2437.401,"body":"I think it's possible for"},{"startTime":2434.501,"endTime":2437.401,"body":"them to straddle both worlds."},{"startTime":2437.411,"endTime":2440.361,"body":"If I think about your product"},{"startTime":2437.411,"endTime":2440.361,"body":"manager, this is your direct"},{"startTime":2440.361,"endTime":2445.051,"body":"supervisor and they're on all of your"},{"startTime":2440.361,"endTime":2445.051,"body":"sprint reviews on the invite list."},{"startTime":2445.501,"endTime":2449.041,"body":"the only thing I would put a star next"},{"startTime":2445.501,"endTime":2449.041,"body":"to is like, yeah, they're definitely"},{"startTime":2449.041,"endTime":2451.431,"body":"going to make all the quarterly"},{"startTime":2449.041,"endTime":2451.431,"body":"sessions with the roadmap stuff."},{"startTime":2451.441,"endTime":2451.721,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":2451.861,"endTime":2455.461,"body":"And I'm going to consult with them"},{"startTime":2451.861,"endTime":2455.461,"body":"before I make my bets and put them on"},{"startTime":2455.461,"endTime":2457.151,"body":"that roadmap list and bring them up."},{"startTime":2457.451,"endTime":2461.051,"body":"To the context setters in that big"},{"startTime":2457.451,"endTime":2461.051,"body":"session where I'm expecting to get"},{"startTime":2461.061,"endTime":2464.391,"body":"beat up As far as being on my sprint"},{"startTime":2461.061,"endTime":2464.391,"body":"reviews, I'll put them on my sprint"},{"startTime":2464.391,"endTime":2468.271,"body":"reviews as optional because I really"},{"startTime":2464.391,"endTime":2468.271,"body":"do not expect them to show up."},{"startTime":2468.751,"endTime":2473.461,"body":"I expect them to show up when the last"},{"startTime":2468.751,"endTime":2473.461,"body":"story in an Epic is closing or the first"},{"startTime":2473.461,"endTime":2475.151,"body":"story in an Epic is being delivered."},{"startTime":2475.151,"endTime":2478.801,"body":"Like the, like the big swings of"},{"startTime":2475.151,"endTime":2478.801,"body":"work are just starting or finishing"},{"startTime":2478.801,"endTime":2481.441,"body":"or, or, or we're about to have."},{"startTime":2481.666,"endTime":2485.146,"body":"The takeaways from a big bet in"},{"startTime":2481.666,"endTime":2485.146,"body":"the sprint review, that would be"},{"startTime":2485.326,"endTime":2488.896,"body":"when I would expect them to show up"},{"startTime":2485.326,"endTime":2488.896,"body":"otherwise I don't expect them to show"},{"startTime":2488.896,"endTime":2490.116,"body":"up for every single sprint review."},{"startTime":2490.116,"endTime":2492.596,"body":"You make a good point about"},{"startTime":2490.116,"endTime":2492.596,"body":"the frequency of this."},{"startTime":2492.746,"endTime":2496.916,"body":"by all means do not exclude"},{"startTime":2492.746,"endTime":2496.916,"body":"them because they'll get FOMO."},{"startTime":2497.016,"endTime":2498.466,"body":"Put them in as optional for sure."},{"startTime":2498.506,"endTime":2500.316,"body":"if they show up, great."},{"startTime":2500.326,"endTime":2502.336,"body":"If they don't fine, it doesn't matter."},{"startTime":2502.636,"endTime":2506.266,"body":"This is, this is one of those tricky"},{"startTime":2502.636,"endTime":2506.266,"body":"situations where you say, well they"},{"startTime":2506.266,"endTime":2508.546,"body":"don't show up, but they'll say,"},{"startTime":2506.266,"endTime":2508.546,"body":"send me a recording of the review."},{"startTime":2508.836,"endTime":2510.306,"body":"do you record your sprint reviews?"},{"startTime":2510.436,"endTime":2514.016,"body":"I leave it up to the team If"},{"startTime":2510.436,"endTime":2514.016,"body":"there's a call for it, I typically"},{"startTime":2514.016,"endTime":2517.161,"body":"don't, the advantage of the sprint"},{"startTime":2514.016,"endTime":2517.161,"body":"review is the feedback you get"},{"startTime":2517.161,"endTime":2518.021,"body":"when you're showing the feature."},{"startTime":2518.021,"endTime":2521.311,"body":"you're actually putting your hands on and"},{"startTime":2518.021,"endTime":2521.311,"body":"walking through the feature live, which"},{"startTime":2521.461,"endTime":2522.921,"body":"needs to be synchronous  and that's fine."},{"startTime":2522.921,"endTime":2525.331,"body":"They can catch the recording"},{"startTime":2522.921,"endTime":2525.331,"body":"afterwards for the stuff that."},{"startTime":2525.631,"endTime":2528.141,"body":"They don't really have too much"},{"startTime":2525.631,"endTime":2528.141,"body":"of an opinion on, they're just"},{"startTime":2528.141,"endTime":2532.241,"body":"happy to see things moving, so that"},{"startTime":2528.141,"endTime":2532.241,"body":"they're informed, so that when, if"},{"startTime":2532.241,"endTime":2534.201,"body":"they're in whatever other meetings."},{"startTime":2534.486,"endTime":2535.656,"body":"with other executives."},{"startTime":2535.656,"endTime":2538.646,"body":"I'm assuming we're at the executive"},{"startTime":2535.656,"endTime":2538.646,"body":"level Yeah, you are at this stage."},{"startTime":2538.656,"endTime":2540.526,"body":"Then they know the latest and greatest."},{"startTime":2540.706,"endTime":2542.656,"body":"Like, nobody's gonna"},{"startTime":2540.706,"endTime":2542.656,"body":"catch them by surprise."},{"startTime":2542.846,"endTime":2547.036,"body":"The cynical side of Brian is these"},{"startTime":2542.846,"endTime":2547.036,"body":"people work extra hard so that"},{"startTime":2547.036,"endTime":2550.666,"body":"nobody can surprise them because"},{"startTime":2547.036,"endTime":2550.666,"body":"the thing these folks hate is being"},{"startTime":2550.666,"endTime":2552.916,"body":"surprised by anything in the business."},{"startTime":2552.916,"endTime":2560.121,"body":"they will work 80 hours if it means they"},{"startTime":2552.916,"endTime":2560.121,"body":"can not the culture at that level in"},{"startTime":2560.121,"endTime":2562.521,"body":"most organizations is kind of cutthroat."},{"startTime":2562.921,"endTime":2563.931,"body":"that's what forces this."},{"startTime":2563.931,"endTime":2565.371,"body":"I'm not saying it's a"},{"startTime":2563.931,"endTime":2565.371,"body":"good thing or a bad thing."},{"startTime":2565.671,"endTime":2569.031,"body":"And what I definitely am saying is"},{"startTime":2565.671,"endTime":2569.031,"body":"invite them, put them on as optional."},{"startTime":2569.331,"endTime":2572.821,"body":"maybe a third of the time they're"},{"startTime":2569.331,"endTime":2572.821,"body":"going to join, maybe less than that."},{"startTime":2572.981,"endTime":2576.291,"body":"But I would say once a sprint as"},{"startTime":2572.981,"endTime":2576.291,"body":"a frequency for this one, I think"},{"startTime":2576.291,"endTime":2577.411,"body":"that's a little too frequent."},{"startTime":2577.711,"endTime":2578.531,"body":"I agree with that."},{"startTime":2578.561,"endTime":2579.361,"body":"Absolutely."},{"startTime":2579.411,"endTime":2582.361,"body":"first of all, I agree with where"},{"startTime":2579.411,"endTime":2582.361,"body":"you were just going, which is"},{"startTime":2582.851,"endTime":2586.541,"body":"in the players category, you"},{"startTime":2582.851,"endTime":2586.541,"body":"have your boss, Possibly theirs."},{"startTime":2586.601,"endTime":2588.361,"body":"You do not want to surprise people."},{"startTime":2588.521,"endTime":2592.341,"body":"You don't want them to find out in some"},{"startTime":2588.521,"endTime":2592.341,"body":"other way that something is happening."},{"startTime":2592.661,"endTime":2594.011,"body":"So yes, invite them."},{"startTime":2594.301,"endTime":2597.741,"body":"But I'd say more likely they may"},{"startTime":2594.301,"endTime":2597.741,"body":"show up even less than a third of"},{"startTime":2597.741,"endTime":2599.041,"body":"the time or a quarter of the time."},{"startTime":2599.091,"endTime":2599.871,"body":"These guys are busy."},{"startTime":2600.231,"endTime":2604.371,"body":"What happens if you're in a situation"},{"startTime":2600.231,"endTime":2604.371,"body":"where you're delivering something"},{"startTime":2604.371,"endTime":2607.311,"body":"that's a bit bigger than just"},{"startTime":2604.371,"endTime":2607.311,"body":"your team, So you're delivering a"},{"startTime":2607.311,"endTime":2610.031,"body":"capability that spans multiple teams."},{"startTime":2610.331,"endTime":2612.161,"body":"Then you may have, a review."},{"startTime":2612.261,"endTime":2614.831,"body":"It's not a sprint review"},{"startTime":2612.261,"endTime":2614.831,"body":"necessarily, but it's a review of"},{"startTime":2614.831,"endTime":2616.841,"body":"the functionality internally before."},{"startTime":2617.156,"endTime":2622.136,"body":"It goes out in the wild, they will, want"},{"startTime":2617.156,"endTime":2622.136,"body":"to see holistically across the board, how"},{"startTime":2622.156,"endTime":2626.466,"body":"this program wide initiative is shaping"},{"startTime":2622.156,"endTime":2626.466,"body":"up right before it goes to the customers."},{"startTime":2626.696,"endTime":2628.606,"body":"So you're probably"},{"startTime":2626.696,"endTime":2628.606,"body":"going to get them there."},{"startTime":2628.656,"endTime":2631.906,"body":"You may not get them at your sprint"},{"startTime":2628.656,"endTime":2631.906,"body":"review, every sprint, but even if you"},{"startTime":2631.916,"endTime":2633.286,"body":"get them once in a while, that's fine."},{"startTime":2633.676,"endTime":2636.406,"body":"It's on their calendar and they"},{"startTime":2633.676,"endTime":2636.406,"body":"have the first right of refusal."},{"startTime":2636.706,"endTime":2638.226,"body":"One of the unexpected takeaways."},{"startTime":2638.656,"endTime":2641.886,"body":"From this conversation"},{"startTime":2638.656,"endTime":2641.886,"body":"is I think I've softened."},{"startTime":2642.286,"endTime":2646.096,"body":"I think I've softened"},{"startTime":2642.286,"endTime":2646.096,"body":"my take on recording."},{"startTime":2646.546,"endTime":2650.486,"body":"The sprint reviews after this"},{"startTime":2646.546,"endTime":2650.486,"body":"conversation, I think about the category"},{"startTime":2650.486,"endTime":2654.786,"body":"we started with, which was the crowd,"},{"startTime":2650.486,"endTime":2654.786,"body":"these recorded sprint reviews, you"},{"startTime":2654.786,"endTime":2657.916,"body":"could blast them out to the crowd"},{"startTime":2654.786,"endTime":2657.916,"body":"because it's one way conversation,"},{"startTime":2658.346,"endTime":2659.856,"body":"you don't really care what they say."},{"startTime":2660.156,"endTime":2663.356,"body":"I mean, that's, that's, that's a"},{"startTime":2660.156,"endTime":2663.356,"body":"callous way to say is like, but,"},{"startTime":2663.356,"endTime":2667.356,"body":"but it's, it's way more detail"},{"startTime":2663.356,"endTime":2667.356,"body":"than that group ever needed."},{"startTime":2667.846,"endTime":2670.406,"body":"And it's more often than"},{"startTime":2667.846,"endTime":2670.406,"body":"that group ever needed."},{"startTime":2670.616,"endTime":2673.906,"body":"So maybe, maybe, maybe the, the, the,"},{"startTime":2670.616,"endTime":2673.906,"body":"maybe there, there is a little bit of"},{"startTime":2673.906,"endTime":2676.886,"body":"pushback to be like, well, you really"},{"startTime":2673.906,"endTime":2676.886,"body":"shouldn't communicate with that crowd."},{"startTime":2676.926,"endTime":2680.496,"body":"Every update along the way, after you're"},{"startTime":2676.926,"endTime":2680.496,"body":"done with a group of features and an epic"},{"startTime":2680.496,"endTime":2685.356,"body":"closes, do some kind of special recording"},{"startTime":2680.496,"endTime":2685.356,"body":"to walk through all of how you implemented"},{"startTime":2685.356,"endTime":2690.226,"body":"the like a special sprint review"},{"startTime":2685.356,"endTime":2690.226,"body":"about a larger group of functionality."},{"startTime":2690.551,"endTime":2693.031,"body":"we need feedback to kind of tweak"},{"startTime":2690.551,"endTime":2693.031,"body":"the thing and more to say like,"},{"startTime":2693.231,"endTime":2695.941,"body":"this is how we ended this feature."},{"startTime":2695.961,"endTime":2696.881,"body":"It's a release review."},{"startTime":2696.881,"endTime":2698.021,"body":"If you like, it's a real, yeah."},{"startTime":2698.021,"endTime":2698.261,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":2698.261,"endTime":2701.331,"body":"The thing I like about this,"},{"startTime":2698.261,"endTime":2701.331,"body":"this conversation is this, right."},{"startTime":2701.361,"endTime":2702.721,"body":"I want people to not say."},{"startTime":2703.036,"endTime":2705.656,"body":"Oh, we're not going to"},{"startTime":2703.036,"endTime":2705.656,"body":"record and send nothing out."},{"startTime":2705.656,"endTime":2709.406,"body":"If you really feel the need to do it, I"},{"startTime":2705.656,"endTime":2709.406,"body":"tend to kind of lean the other way and"},{"startTime":2709.406,"endTime":2713.456,"body":"say, not really, because you want to be"},{"startTime":2709.406,"endTime":2713.456,"body":"able to get that interactive feedback."},{"startTime":2713.826,"endTime":2718.416,"body":"Now, today where we are, you"},{"startTime":2713.826,"endTime":2718.416,"body":"have AI on your meetings that"},{"startTime":2718.416,"endTime":2720.316,"body":"can summarize your sprint review."},{"startTime":2720.686,"endTime":2724.316,"body":"So we use that all the time"},{"startTime":2720.686,"endTime":2724.316,"body":"at my work, for example, we'll"},{"startTime":2724.346,"endTime":2725.896,"body":"have AI create a summary."},{"startTime":2726.386,"endTime":2731.206,"body":"And we'll send that out that's a much"},{"startTime":2726.386,"endTime":2731.206,"body":"shorter thing than a, one hour, one and"},{"startTime":2731.206,"endTime":2735.486,"body":"a half hour sprint review meeting, which"},{"startTime":2731.206,"endTime":2735.486,"body":"recorded people have to spend time."},{"startTime":2735.536,"endTime":2739.866,"body":"If you have summarized , some key"},{"startTime":2735.536,"endTime":2739.866,"body":"points of what is being demonstrated,"},{"startTime":2739.886,"endTime":2740.856,"body":"they can glance through that."},{"startTime":2741.156,"endTime":2743.756,"body":"Maybe pick up something or not,"},{"startTime":2741.156,"endTime":2743.756,"body":"but at least they're informed."},{"startTime":2743.826,"endTime":2748.086,"body":"That's the crowd level i'm talking about"},{"startTime":2743.826,"endTime":2748.086,"body":"But why can't you apply that right to"},{"startTime":2748.086,"endTime":2752.616,"body":"the program level or release a review"},{"startTime":2748.086,"endTime":2752.616,"body":"if you like do it there as well and"},{"startTime":2752.616,"endTime":2757.736,"body":"just capture it because again not All"},{"startTime":2752.616,"endTime":2757.736,"body":"of the people that are in that top, top"},{"startTime":2757.736,"endTime":2759.666,"body":"right quadrant, we'll be able to attend."},{"startTime":2759.976,"endTime":2762.246,"body":"You'll have one person who"},{"startTime":2759.976,"endTime":2762.246,"body":"will say sorry, can't make it."},{"startTime":2762.516,"endTime":2763.056,"body":"No worries."},{"startTime":2763.106,"endTime":2767.046,"body":"We'll send you a summary and attached"},{"startTime":2763.106,"endTime":2767.046,"body":"with that is a link to the recording."},{"startTime":2767.106,"endTime":2767.896,"body":"Release recording."},{"startTime":2767.896,"endTime":2770.016,"body":"I'm okay with recording"},{"startTime":2767.896,"endTime":2770.016,"body":"those release reviews."},{"startTime":2770.346,"endTime":2772.236,"body":"it's actually useful"},{"startTime":2770.346,"endTime":2772.236,"body":"for your team as well."},{"startTime":2772.286,"endTime":2774.406,"body":"just in case they need to go"},{"startTime":2772.286,"endTime":2774.406,"body":"back and look at something."},{"startTime":2774.406,"endTime":2775.816,"body":"So I'm fine with that."},{"startTime":2775.816,"endTime":2777.586,"body":"I've softened my stance on recording."},{"startTime":2777.886,"endTime":2781.466,"body":"But at the release level and at the"},{"startTime":2777.886,"endTime":2781.466,"body":"sprint level, just leave it up to you."},{"startTime":2781.516,"endTime":2782.006,"body":"That's cool."},{"startTime":2782.006,"endTime":2785.186,"body":"There's a lot of takeaways in this"},{"startTime":2782.006,"endTime":2785.186,"body":"podcast for me there was a lot more"},{"startTime":2785.186,"endTime":2788.906,"body":"content in here than I expected when"},{"startTime":2785.186,"endTime":2788.906,"body":"we started recording because we didn't"},{"startTime":2788.906,"endTime":2793.976,"body":"even talk about Ways to rank people"},{"startTime":2788.906,"endTime":2793.976,"body":"into these buckets and, score them and"},{"startTime":2793.976,"endTime":2797.066,"body":"stuff like that I almost want to do"},{"startTime":2793.976,"endTime":2797.066,"body":"a follow on but I have to think about"},{"startTime":2797.066,"endTime":2797.886,"body":"it We haven't talked about that yet."},{"startTime":2798.156,"endTime":2801.346,"body":"There's a bunch of adjacent"},{"startTime":2798.156,"endTime":2801.346,"body":"topics to this one to talk about."},{"startTime":2801.406,"endTime":2804.716,"body":"I also feel that when a release triggers"},{"startTime":2801.406,"endTime":2804.716,"body":"and goes out to an environment we"},{"startTime":2804.716,"endTime":2808.816,"body":"talked about QA, for example, when a"},{"startTime":2804.716,"endTime":2808.816,"body":"release triggers, You could fire off"},{"startTime":2808.826,"endTime":2812.176,"body":"an automated message to your QA folks"},{"startTime":2808.826,"endTime":2812.176,"body":"that says, Hey, the release is out."},{"startTime":2812.516,"endTime":2813.636,"body":"It's in this environment."},{"startTime":2813.916,"endTime":2816.526,"body":"Just want to let you know, here's the"},{"startTime":2813.916,"endTime":2816.526,"body":"work items that are out and ready."},{"startTime":2816.526,"endTime":2818.986,"body":"Here's the things that should"},{"startTime":2816.526,"endTime":2818.986,"body":"be ready to test or whatever."},{"startTime":2818.986,"endTime":2820.786,"body":"if you have automation, you"},{"startTime":2818.986,"endTime":2820.786,"body":"have automation reports."},{"startTime":2821.161,"endTime":2822.131,"body":"Those can go out."},{"startTime":2822.191,"endTime":2826.741,"body":"there is some automation strategy"},{"startTime":2822.191,"endTime":2826.741,"body":"that works with what we've talked"},{"startTime":2826.741,"endTime":2833.281,"body":"about already, in addition to some"},{"startTime":2826.741,"endTime":2833.281,"body":"way to rank your users, to fit them"},{"startTime":2833.281,"endTime":2835.271,"body":"into these buckets a little easier."},{"startTime":2835.601,"endTime":2836.551,"body":"I look forward to the next one."},{"startTime":2836.581,"endTime":2839.251,"body":"Cause I, this whole idea of"},{"startTime":2836.581,"endTime":2839.251,"body":"ranking people in one of the"},{"startTime":2839.261,"endTime":2840.921,"body":"four, buckets is important too"},{"startTime":2840.971,"endTime":2844.681,"body":"despite all of that objective"},{"startTime":2840.971,"endTime":2844.681,"body":"ranking, you still need to go over"},{"startTime":2844.681,"endTime":2846.811,"body":"it and say, who are the individuals?"},{"startTime":2846.811,"endTime":2847.861,"body":"What are their personalities?"},{"startTime":2847.861,"endTime":2850.161,"body":"You got any people there"},{"startTime":2847.861,"endTime":2850.161,"body":"that really are afraid of?"},{"startTime":2850.521,"endTime":2854.521,"body":"Being left out and include them and"},{"startTime":2850.521,"endTime":2854.521,"body":"manually kind of just tweak where"},{"startTime":2854.521,"endTime":2856.381,"body":"they are in the four quadrants"},{"startTime":2856.751,"endTime":2860.661,"body":"there's a lot of opportunity"},{"startTime":2856.751,"endTime":2860.661,"body":"here to improve communications."},{"startTime":2860.971,"endTime":2863.281,"body":"when you start getting busy,"},{"startTime":2860.971,"endTime":2863.281,"body":"this is the first thing that"},{"startTime":2863.281,"endTime":2865.041,"body":"it takes to hit for most teams."},{"startTime":2865.341,"endTime":2868.706,"body":"Product managers are like a. Just teams,"},{"startTime":2865.341,"endTime":2868.706,"body":"just software development teams, like"},{"startTime":2868.706,"endTime":2869.956,"body":"you have product management on the side."},{"startTime":2870.326,"endTime":2873.476,"body":"if you have this plan written down"},{"startTime":2870.326,"endTime":2873.476,"body":"somewhere, maybe it won't take"},{"startTime":2873.476,"endTime":2875.806,"body":"the hit in quality, because at"},{"startTime":2873.476,"endTime":2875.806,"body":"least you have some kind of plan."},{"startTime":2876.166,"endTime":2878.416,"body":"Most people have no plan at all."},{"startTime":2878.416,"endTime":2878.916,"body":"They wing it."},{"startTime":2879.096,"endTime":2880.356,"body":". They do the best they can."},{"startTime":2880.656,"endTime":2883.486,"body":"given the way some organizations"},{"startTime":2880.656,"endTime":2883.486,"body":"operate, they're lucky they get"},{"startTime":2883.486,"endTime":2887.126,"body":"anything at all, but there is some kind"},{"startTime":2883.486,"endTime":2887.126,"body":"of structured way you could do this."},{"startTime":2887.446,"endTime":2890.206,"body":"Come up with some kind of comms plan,"},{"startTime":2887.446,"endTime":2890.206,"body":"maybe we'll do a follow up about"},{"startTime":2890.206,"endTime":2893.336,"body":"automated triggers you can build"},{"startTime":2890.206,"endTime":2893.336,"body":"into this process and think about it."},{"startTime":2893.726,"endTime":2897.676,"body":"And maybe you can be head and shoulders"},{"startTime":2893.726,"endTime":2897.676,"body":"of all the other product managers"},{"startTime":2898.076,"endTime":2898.536,"body":"sure."},{"startTime":2898.546,"endTime":2899.126,"body":"Absolutely."},{"startTime":2899.126,"endTime":2900.646,"body":"I look forward to that next follow up."},{"startTime":2900.946,"endTime":2901.376,"body":"All right."},{"startTime":2901.416,"endTime":2902.006,"body":"Well, that's."},{"startTime":2902.106,"endTime":2903.206,"body":"Probably going to do it for today."},{"startTime":2903.206,"endTime":2905.666,"body":"So you know those of you that"},{"startTime":2903.206,"endTime":2905.666,"body":"stayed with us, thank you."},{"startTime":2905.796,"endTime":2909.286,"body":"Like and subscribe and don't"},{"startTime":2905.796,"endTime":2909.286,"body":"forget to comment down below."}]}