{"version":"1.0.0","segments":[{"startTime":0.07,"endTime":3.199,"body":"Om, do you wanna get yelled at by Jamie"},{"startTime":0.07,"endTime":3.199,"body":"Diamond for two and a half minutes?"},{"startTime":4.16,"endTime":4.49,"body":"No."},{"startTime":8.233,"endTime":11.083,"body":"The real intro I would want to"},{"startTime":8.233,"endTime":11.083,"body":"do would require me to learn"},{"startTime":11.083,"endTime":12.973,"body":"how to edit and add bleeps."},{"startTime":13.123,"endTime":14.093,"body":"And  I don't even want to do that."},{"startTime":14.223,"endTime":18.193,"body":"Jamie Diamond, who is the CEO"},{"startTime":14.223,"endTime":18.193,"body":"of JP Morgan Chase and chairman."},{"startTime":18.643,"endTime":19.423,"body":"Just for the record."},{"startTime":19.423,"endTime":20.503,"body":"CEO and Chairman."},{"startTime":20.503,"endTime":22.543,"body":"Y'all know that I like to"},{"startTime":20.503,"endTime":22.543,"body":"stay outta the headlines."},{"startTime":22.543,"endTime":25.563,"body":"I like to marinate on stuff to"},{"startTime":22.543,"endTime":25.563,"body":"see how I really feel about it."},{"startTime":25.953,"endTime":31.193,"body":"So there's this Jamie Diamond rant about"},{"startTime":25.953,"endTime":31.193,"body":"work from home that was leaked , about"},{"startTime":31.193,"endTime":34.483,"body":"a month and a half ago we're gonna"},{"startTime":31.193,"endTime":34.483,"body":"listen to the rant and talk about it."},{"startTime":34.783,"endTime":35.533,"body":"It's gonna be exciting."},{"startTime":35.663,"endTime":39.463,"body":"So there was a portion of the rant"},{"startTime":35.663,"endTime":39.463,"body":"that did not make the official,"},{"startTime":39.463,"endTime":42.633,"body":"recording in that portion of the"},{"startTime":39.463,"endTime":42.633,"body":"rant Jamie Diamond will be portrayed"},{"startTime":42.633,"endTime":45.383,"body":"by me here live on this podcast."},{"startTime":45.573,"endTime":47.763,"body":"do you wanna kick us off"},{"startTime":45.573,"endTime":47.763,"body":"about how this rant started?"},{"startTime":47.763,"endTime":49.383,"body":"This rant started with a"},{"startTime":47.763,"endTime":49.383,"body":"question from an employee."},{"startTime":49.413,"endTime":53.273,"body":"One of his employees basically asked what"},{"startTime":49.413,"endTime":53.273,"body":"you might think is a reasonable question."},{"startTime":53.303,"endTime":57.233,"body":"The employee worked on teams that"},{"startTime":53.303,"endTime":57.233,"body":"are geographically dispersed."},{"startTime":57.563,"endTime":62.883,"body":"So he asked Jamie Diamond the question"},{"startTime":57.563,"endTime":62.883,"body":"that basically went something like this."},{"startTime":63.153,"endTime":67.563,"body":"I'm on a, a team that is not co-located,"},{"startTime":63.153,"endTime":67.563,"body":"so it doesn't make sense for me to go"},{"startTime":67.593,"endTime":69.483,"body":"into the office every day of the week."},{"startTime":69.683,"endTime":74.093,"body":"the rest of the rant basically is"},{"startTime":69.683,"endTime":74.093,"body":"about Jamie Diamond's response, right."},{"startTime":74.143,"endTime":77.343,"body":"And then some so, he was asking"},{"startTime":74.143,"endTime":77.343,"body":"about whether Jamie Dimon would"},{"startTime":77.343,"endTime":81.353,"body":"be open to giving the manager"},{"startTime":77.343,"endTime":81.353,"body":"discretion over things you outlined."},{"startTime":81.693,"endTime":84.963,"body":"the part that didn't make the"},{"startTime":81.693,"endTime":84.963,"body":"official audio leak says, I'm going"},{"startTime":84.963,"endTime":86.343,"body":"to give you a complete answer."},{"startTime":86.553,"endTime":88.923,"body":"There is no chance that I'll"},{"startTime":86.553,"endTime":88.923,"body":"leave it up to managers."},{"startTime":89.013,"endTime":92.613,"body":"Zero chance the abuse that I"},{"startTime":89.013,"endTime":92.613,"body":"don't feel like I'm portraying"},{"startTime":92.613,"endTime":93.933,"body":"Jamie Dimon very well right now."},{"startTime":93.933,"endTime":96.063,"body":"I need to ratchet it"},{"startTime":93.933,"endTime":96.063,"body":"up for a couple levels."},{"startTime":96.163,"endTime":98.233,"body":"The abuse that took"},{"startTime":96.163,"endTime":98.233,"body":"place is extraordinary."},{"startTime":98.383,"endTime":99.943,"body":"You may be a great manager, but."},{"startTime":100.273,"endTime":102.253,"body":"I'm gonna give you"},{"startTime":100.273,"endTime":102.253,"body":"examples of how bad it got."},{"startTime":102.333,"endTime":105.093,"body":"60% of Americans went to"},{"startTime":102.333,"endTime":105.093,"body":"work every day during Covid."},{"startTime":105.093,"endTime":109.683,"body":"And somehow people who work in places,"},{"startTime":105.093,"endTime":109.683,"body":"your manufacturing, who deliver your"},{"startTime":109.683,"endTime":114.153,"body":"food, who got the food, police, firemen"},{"startTime":109.683,"endTime":114.153,"body":"and other branches, a lot of you had to"},{"startTime":114.153,"endTime":117.723,"body":"come into work the notion that everybody"},{"startTime":114.153,"endTime":117.723,"body":"was working from home and it's great."},{"startTime":117.823,"endTime":118.453,"body":"was not true."},{"startTime":118.843,"endTime":122.183,"body":"I like how he's cherrypicking"},{"startTime":118.843,"endTime":122.183,"body":"essential workers, And I'm afraid"},{"startTime":122.393,"endTime":124.703,"body":"bank workers are not in that category."},{"startTime":125.013,"endTime":126.633,"body":"I'm not against working from home."},{"startTime":126.683,"endTime":128.873,"body":"I'm going to be spoiler alert."},{"startTime":129.143,"endTime":131.573,"body":"I'm gonna be defending"},{"startTime":129.143,"endTime":131.573,"body":"Jamie Diamond, this podcast."},{"startTime":131.858,"endTime":137.528,"body":"So I feel, which automatically means I'm"},{"startTime":131.858,"endTime":137.528,"body":"not, I feel, I feel like Om is going to be"},{"startTime":137.708,"endTime":142.918,"body":"in the camp of the , normal person on this"},{"startTime":137.708,"endTime":142.918,"body":"podcast but statements like this, Jamie,"},{"startTime":143.338,"endTime":145.198,"body":"they don't help me defend you right now."},{"startTime":145.198,"endTime":146.008,"body":"Can I call you Jamie?"},{"startTime":146.008,"endTime":147.808,"body":"I feel like we're on a first name basis."},{"startTime":147.858,"endTime":151.498,"body":"he continues to say we have 10% of"},{"startTime":147.858,"endTime":151.498,"body":"our people mostly in mortgage and"},{"startTime":151.498,"endTime":153.268,"body":"call centers who work from home."},{"startTime":153.538,"endTime":155.818,"body":"We started a virtual"},{"startTime":153.538,"endTime":155.818,"body":"call center in Detroit."},{"startTime":156.088,"endTime":157.468,"body":"Now we have one in Baltimore."},{"startTime":157.538,"endTime":158.798,"body":"Sorry, Baltimore."},{"startTime":159.018,"endTime":161.718,"body":"It's very efficient, it's"},{"startTime":159.018,"endTime":161.718,"body":"trackable in a very specific"},{"startTime":161.718,"endTime":164.028,"body":"way about how efficient it is."},{"startTime":164.208,"endTime":168.138,"body":"so that,  segues us into our discussion"},{"startTime":164.208,"endTime":168.138,"body":"point number one, which is important"},{"startTime":168.138,"endTime":169.878,"body":"to understand how Jamie Diamond thinks."},{"startTime":170.158,"endTime":173.338,"body":"The people running these larger"},{"startTime":170.158,"endTime":173.338,"body":"organizations, can run a call center"},{"startTime":173.338,"endTime":177.238,"body":"remotely because they have a lot of"},{"startTime":173.338,"endTime":177.238,"body":"low level metrics to make sure that"},{"startTime":177.238,"endTime":179.778,"body":"you're not taking advantage of them."},{"startTime":180.078,"endTime":180.318,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":180.318,"endTime":183.648,"body":"in this specific example"},{"startTime":180.318,"endTime":183.648,"body":"he says 10%, right?"},{"startTime":183.648,"endTime":185.148,"body":"10% of the employees."},{"startTime":185.448,"endTime":186.708,"body":"I don't know how many employees they have."},{"startTime":186.708,"endTime":187.308,"body":"It's a lot."},{"startTime":187.368,"endTime":190.813,"body":"I was gonna say, we should stop and"},{"startTime":187.368,"endTime":190.813,"body":"look up how many JP Morgan, chase,"},{"startTime":190.963,"endTime":193.063,"body":"Just a wild guess about 30,000."},{"startTime":193.213,"endTime":194.983,"body":"I'm gonna say like over"},{"startTime":193.213,"endTime":194.983,"body":"a hundred thousand."},{"startTime":195.283,"endTime":196.693,"body":"Oh, 300,000."},{"startTime":196.693,"endTime":197.743,"body":"Oh, I missed the zero."},{"startTime":197.793,"endTime":202.653,"body":", so, JP Morgan Chase has 300,000 employees"},{"startTime":197.793,"endTime":202.653,"body":"worldwide operating over a hundred global"},{"startTime":202.653,"endTime":206.013,"body":"markets, apparently in over 60 countries."},{"startTime":206.113,"endTime":210.073,"body":"out of 300,000 employees,"},{"startTime":206.113,"endTime":210.073,"body":"he's got 10% that are working."},{"startTime":210.103,"endTime":210.763,"body":"That's massive."},{"startTime":211.063,"endTime":211.303,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":211.303,"endTime":211.753,"body":"it is."},{"startTime":211.753,"endTime":215.723,"body":"10% is a lot, but at the same"},{"startTime":211.753,"endTime":215.723,"body":"time, you have people in mortgages,"},{"startTime":215.723,"endTime":220.613,"body":"people in the call centers actually"},{"startTime":215.723,"endTime":220.613,"body":"caring for customers that need help."},{"startTime":220.853,"endTime":224.993,"body":"Of course they're working from the"},{"startTime":220.853,"endTime":224.993,"body":"call center because you don't have all"},{"startTime":224.993,"endTime":226.763,"body":"that environment set up in your home"},{"startTime":226.953,"endTime":229.863,"body":"Tracking these statistics, to"},{"startTime":226.953,"endTime":229.863,"body":"your point, low level stats, easy"},{"startTime":229.863,"endTime":233.243,"body":"to track And these people have"},{"startTime":229.863,"endTime":233.243,"body":"to be on the go the whole time."},{"startTime":233.243,"endTime":236.393,"body":"if you're not servicing the customer,"},{"startTime":233.243,"endTime":236.393,"body":"you're servicing the last one."},{"startTime":236.423,"endTime":237.893,"body":"You are basically not idle."},{"startTime":237.943,"endTime":242.443,"body":"he's saying the mortgage people and some"},{"startTime":237.943,"endTime":242.443,"body":"call center people are full-time remote"},{"startTime":242.593,"endTime":242.923,"body":"that's fine."},{"startTime":243.043,"endTime":245.653,"body":"But even when we say 10%,"},{"startTime":243.043,"endTime":245.653,"body":"that's 30,000 people."},{"startTime":245.953,"endTime":246.283,"body":"Alright."},{"startTime":246.433,"endTime":252.393,"body":"I'm arguing Jamie Dimon side, how many"},{"startTime":246.433,"endTime":252.393,"body":"people working remote until you figure out"},{"startTime":252.753,"endTime":255.603,"body":"how to fully leverage remote employees?"},{"startTime":255.803,"endTime":259.983,"body":"because I would think that you could"},{"startTime":255.803,"endTime":259.983,"body":"start with a team of 10, and if you're"},{"startTime":259.983,"endTime":263.193,"body":"successful with a team of 10, you"},{"startTime":259.983,"endTime":263.193,"body":"expand that program to a hundred."},{"startTime":263.283,"endTime":267.243,"body":"And if you're successful with a hundred,"},{"startTime":263.283,"endTime":267.243,"body":"you expand that to a thousand, so"},{"startTime":267.363,"endTime":272.703,"body":"you, got 30,000 employees, you got 10%"},{"startTime":267.363,"endTime":272.703,"body":"of your workforce globally figuring"},{"startTime":272.708,"endTime":275.463,"body":"this out and doing it successfully"},{"startTime":272.708,"endTime":275.463,"body":"in a way that you're happy with."},{"startTime":275.493,"endTime":276.723,"body":"'cause he says he's happy with it."},{"startTime":276.733,"endTime":277.483,"body":"they're super efficient."},{"startTime":277.483,"endTime":281.383,"body":"He says he can track butts in seats and"},{"startTime":277.483,"endTime":281.383,"body":"calls or whatever, so he is happy with it."},{"startTime":281.383,"endTime":282.133,"body":"That's what he's saying."},{"startTime":282.433,"endTime":286.993,"body":"But also you're saying for the"},{"startTime":282.433,"endTime":286.993,"body":"other 90%, you haven't quite"},{"startTime":286.993,"endTime":288.553,"body":"figured out a system there."},{"startTime":288.733,"endTime":291.103,"body":"So the metrics is really"},{"startTime":288.733,"endTime":291.103,"body":"where this is going."},{"startTime":291.103,"endTime":293.983,"body":"I think the metrics are easier to"},{"startTime":291.103,"endTime":293.983,"body":"measure for those people that are"},{"startTime":294.313,"endTime":297.373,"body":"on the phone the whole time or"},{"startTime":294.313,"endTime":297.373,"body":"talking to customers, et cetera."},{"startTime":297.503,"endTime":301.913,"body":"we have access to metrics from"},{"startTime":297.503,"endTime":301.913,"body":"AV systems and what have you."},{"startTime":302.173,"endTime":306.783,"body":"But the others, he's saying he's not"},{"startTime":302.173,"endTime":306.783,"body":"also sure if they're being efficient"},{"startTime":306.833,"endTime":308.483,"body":"Using his word efficient."},{"startTime":308.903,"endTime":311.543,"body":"So , that's what I'm extracting"},{"startTime":308.903,"endTime":311.543,"body":"if you claim that you're working"},{"startTime":311.543,"endTime":315.293,"body":"remote We need a command control"},{"startTime":311.543,"endTime":315.293,"body":"system to basically measure every"},{"startTime":315.323,"endTime":318.363,"body":"keystroke, every customer call."},{"startTime":318.453,"endTime":321.903,"body":"What number of rings that the customer"},{"startTime":318.453,"endTime":321.903,"body":"call makes through to your phone"},{"startTime":321.903,"endTime":325.643,"body":"before you pick up, the amount of"},{"startTime":321.903,"endTime":325.643,"body":"time it takes to resolve the call"},{"startTime":325.653,"endTime":328.443,"body":"start of the call to the end of the"},{"startTime":325.653,"endTime":328.443,"body":"call, whether you actually resolve the"},{"startTime":328.443,"endTime":330.753,"body":"customer's problem or not on the call."},{"startTime":331.053,"endTime":333.283,"body":"Like there's a lot of things you"},{"startTime":331.053,"endTime":333.283,"body":"could track So what he's saying is"},{"startTime":333.583,"endTime":339.433,"body":"as long as I have complete command"},{"startTime":333.583,"endTime":339.433,"body":"and control of your workload, then"},{"startTime":339.433,"endTime":341.473,"body":"I'm okay with you working remote."},{"startTime":341.623,"endTime":342.463,"body":"Is that what he's saying?"},{"startTime":342.763,"endTime":344.263,"body":"I pretty much conclude that."},{"startTime":344.263,"endTime":344.923,"body":"Exactly."},{"startTime":344.923,"endTime":345.373,"body":"Yes."},{"startTime":345.403,"endTime":348.523,"body":"And the flip side of it is he only has."},{"startTime":348.838,"endTime":352.438,"body":"Visibility through metrics"},{"startTime":348.838,"endTime":352.438,"body":"for specific groupings, right?"},{"startTime":352.438,"endTime":355.498,"body":"People in the call centers and"},{"startTime":352.438,"endTime":355.498,"body":"people in the mortgage area."},{"startTime":355.928,"endTime":359.668,"body":"I assumed that the mortgage folks"},{"startTime":355.928,"endTime":359.668,"body":"would be measured through post"},{"startTime":359.668,"endTime":361.258,"body":"experience polls or what have you."},{"startTime":361.348,"endTime":361.468,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":361.498,"endTime":364.048,"body":"But he can actually"},{"startTime":361.498,"endTime":364.048,"body":"get hard numbers there."},{"startTime":364.098,"endTime":367.218,"body":"you can look at things like meantime"},{"startTime":364.098,"endTime":367.218,"body":"to resolution for any issues in"},{"startTime":367.218,"endTime":372.298,"body":"the call center, But for other work"},{"startTime":367.218,"endTime":372.298,"body":"that the rest of the 90% are doing"},{"startTime":372.778,"endTime":374.968,"body":"the means to get to hard numbers."},{"startTime":375.248,"endTime":377.048,"body":"I think that's where he's lacking"},{"startTime":377.048,"endTime":377.978,"body":"He doesn't have that."},{"startTime":378.218,"endTime":382.718,"body":"Therefore, that translates from his"},{"startTime":378.218,"endTime":382.718,"body":"perspective into they not being efficient."},{"startTime":382.918,"endTime":387.238,"body":"What I'm hearing is if you"},{"startTime":382.918,"endTime":387.238,"body":"can give the team the goal."},{"startTime":387.553,"endTime":390.973,"body":"And measure their contribution"},{"startTime":387.553,"endTime":390.973,"body":"directly to the goal, then it's"},{"startTime":390.973,"endTime":392.173,"body":"okay if they're working remotely."},{"startTime":392.473,"endTime":393.613,"body":"I didn't get that from there."},{"startTime":393.673,"endTime":396.313,"body":"So you're describing the"},{"startTime":393.673,"endTime":396.313,"body":"outcome based metric here."},{"startTime":396.313,"endTime":396.688,"body":"well, that, yeah."},{"startTime":396.838,"endTime":397.168,"body":"Yes."},{"startTime":397.168,"endTime":397.558,"body":"You're right."},{"startTime":397.558,"endTime":398.968,"body":"I'm extrapolating a little bit."},{"startTime":398.968,"endTime":399.268,"body":"Yeah, exactly."},{"startTime":399.348,"endTime":407.388,"body":"the call center's outcome based metrics"},{"startTime":399.348,"endTime":407.388,"body":"is you are quickly and efficiently"},{"startTime":407.418,"endTime":409.008,"body":"resolving the customer's problem."},{"startTime":409.158,"endTime":409.368,"body":"Yep."},{"startTime":409.418,"endTime":412.108,"body":"We didn't talk about mortgage"},{"startTime":409.418,"endTime":412.108,"body":"'cause it's not a FinTech podcast."},{"startTime":412.328,"endTime":416.283,"body":"I've done a few mortgages in"},{"startTime":412.328,"endTime":416.283,"body":"my life and I do know that the"},{"startTime":416.283,"endTime":421.723,"body":"mortgage process is you're in a big"},{"startTime":416.283,"endTime":421.723,"body":"hurry to do a bunch of paperwork."},{"startTime":422.068,"endTime":424.738,"body":"until you get the paperwork done, then"},{"startTime":422.068,"endTime":424.738,"body":"you're in a big hurry for the bank to do"},{"startTime":424.738,"endTime":427.868,"body":"whatever the bank does with the paperwork"},{"startTime":424.738,"endTime":427.868,"body":"They're waiting on somebody else to"},{"startTime":427.868,"endTime":429.068,"body":"do something else with the paperwork."},{"startTime":429.198,"endTime":431.088,"body":"You're always waiting on somebody."},{"startTime":431.148,"endTime":431.508,"body":"Yes."},{"startTime":431.508,"endTime":435.518,"body":"In the mortgage industry  it does make a"},{"startTime":431.508,"endTime":435.518,"body":"lot of sense for them to be remote because"},{"startTime":435.568,"endTime":439.228,"body":"it's not like they're waiting on something"},{"startTime":435.568,"endTime":439.228,"body":"they can walk up to the desk of, right."},{"startTime":439.318,"endTime":441.448,"body":"To be like, Hey, I need you to"},{"startTime":439.318,"endTime":441.448,"body":"read this and gimme an answer."},{"startTime":441.448,"endTime":444.238,"body":"Right now they're"},{"startTime":441.448,"endTime":444.238,"body":"distributed across the world."},{"startTime":444.238,"endTime":447.298,"body":"So the Jamie Diamond version of this"},{"startTime":444.238,"endTime":447.298,"body":"is like, are you gonna put all your"},{"startTime":447.298,"endTime":448.378,"body":"mortgage people in one building?"},{"startTime":448.438,"endTime":449.188,"body":"I know you're not."},{"startTime":449.288,"endTime":450.908,"body":"They're in wait mode all the time."},{"startTime":450.908,"endTime":453.608,"body":"And the other thing is they're"},{"startTime":450.908,"endTime":453.608,"body":"basically managing handoffs."},{"startTime":453.908,"endTime":454.238,"body":"Right."},{"startTime":454.288,"endTime":455.308,"body":"And you can do that from home."},{"startTime":455.358,"endTime":458.028,"body":"Because you can see that, you can"},{"startTime":455.358,"endTime":458.028,"body":"actually measure that and say, how"},{"startTime":458.028,"endTime":461.538,"body":"long did it take for this particular"},{"startTime":458.028,"endTime":461.538,"body":"paper instrument, whatever."},{"startTime":461.598,"endTime":461.778,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":461.838,"endTime":463.188,"body":"To get from A to B2C."},{"startTime":463.188,"endTime":463.443,"body":"Right, right."},{"startTime":463.448,"endTime":464.148,"body":"You can measure that."},{"startTime":464.148,"endTime":465.228,"body":"So okay."},{"startTime":465.228,"endTime":466.758,"body":"You can track efficiency there."},{"startTime":466.838,"endTime":469.898,"body":"But how do you do that with the"},{"startTime":466.838,"endTime":469.898,"body":"other 90% is where his challenge is?"},{"startTime":469.898,"endTime":474.383,"body":"I think so the way that I would"},{"startTime":469.898,"endTime":474.383,"body":"recommend tracking that is  outlining"},{"startTime":474.383,"endTime":478.313,"body":"the goal for that team and then"},{"startTime":474.383,"endTime":478.313,"body":"measuring their distance to the goal."},{"startTime":478.613,"endTime":480.143,"body":"Like over a time period."},{"startTime":480.203,"endTime":482.003,"body":"I, a week over week, a day over day."},{"startTime":482.003,"endTime":484.433,"body":"I don't know, like most software"},{"startTime":482.003,"endTime":484.433,"body":"development teams don't make"},{"startTime":484.433,"endTime":486.863,"body":"progress day over day to the goal."},{"startTime":487.043,"endTime":487.223,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":487.253,"endTime":489.503,"body":"You probably could measure week"},{"startTime":487.253,"endTime":489.503,"body":"over week and probably have a good"},{"startTime":489.503,"endTime":493.383,"body":"measurement, but I'm trying to defend"},{"startTime":489.503,"endTime":493.383,"body":"the spirit of where he's going rather"},{"startTime":493.383,"endTime":494.523,"body":"than the letter of where he is going."},{"startTime":494.808,"endTime":497.528,"body":"Right, which is like, I need to be"},{"startTime":494.808,"endTime":497.528,"body":"watching these people like minute by"},{"startTime":497.528,"endTime":500.358,"body":"minute, I'm not gonna get development"},{"startTime":497.528,"endTime":500.358,"body":"top talent, product management,"},{"startTime":500.358,"endTime":501.738,"body":"top talent with that attitude."},{"startTime":502.188,"endTime":506.418,"body":"But if the attitude is management"},{"startTime":502.188,"endTime":506.418,"body":"has given you the goal, like pretend"},{"startTime":506.418,"endTime":510.288,"body":"in a world where management is"},{"startTime":506.418,"endTime":510.288,"body":"participating in your quarterly business"},{"startTime":510.288,"endTime":513.528,"body":"review and says, Hey, these are the"},{"startTime":510.288,"endTime":513.528,"body":"goals you should be shooting for."},{"startTime":513.768,"endTime":516.588,"body":"And then weekly you send me an update."},{"startTime":517.028,"endTime":518.378,"body":"we do quarterly business review."},{"startTime":518.458,"endTime":521.778,"body":"the business review itself is"},{"startTime":518.458,"endTime":521.778,"body":"a week, like traveling and all"},{"startTime":521.778,"endTime":522.558,"body":"that stuff is another week."},{"startTime":522.558,"endTime":525.943,"body":"So then we only have 10 updates"},{"startTime":522.558,"endTime":525.943,"body":"To the quarterly business review."},{"startTime":525.993,"endTime":526.983,"body":"That's not a lot of bureaucracy."},{"startTime":526.983,"endTime":529.713,"body":"Just shoot me a message that"},{"startTime":526.983,"endTime":529.713,"body":"says, Hey, we're on track."},{"startTime":529.763,"endTime":530.633,"body":"green, amber, red."},{"startTime":530.633,"endTime":530.833,"body":"Indicators."},{"startTime":530.988,"endTime":532.308,"body":"that's the level Jamie Diamond's at."},{"startTime":532.458,"endTime":534.198,"body":"he probably wants to be involved."},{"startTime":534.348,"endTime":535.368,"body":"get into the weeds."},{"startTime":535.848,"endTime":538.908,"body":"But again, he's the head of"},{"startTime":535.848,"endTime":538.908,"body":"a 300,000 person company."},{"startTime":538.958,"endTime":540.668,"body":"there's no way he could be in the weeds."},{"startTime":540.768,"endTime":543.138,"body":"And I honestly, don't even know if he"},{"startTime":540.768,"endTime":543.138,"body":"wants to, I think he's just wanting to"},{"startTime":543.138,"endTime":546.443,"body":"make sure that the ship's steering in"},{"startTime":543.138,"endTime":546.443,"body":"the right direction at the right speed."},{"startTime":546.443,"endTime":546.808,"body":"Right, right."},{"startTime":547.258,"endTime":549.388,"body":"so yes, outcome based, that's fine."},{"startTime":549.388,"endTime":556.798,"body":"But that culture necessitates a level of"},{"startTime":549.388,"endTime":556.798,"body":"trust among people that are working For"},{"startTime":556.798,"endTime":560.828,"body":"you and he started off here by saying"},{"startTime":556.798,"endTime":560.828,"body":"he's not even gonna leave it up to."},{"startTime":561.248,"endTime":563.738,"body":"The managers to decide if"},{"startTime":561.248,"endTime":563.738,"body":"people can work remote."},{"startTime":564.068,"endTime":567.048,"body":"Those two things I think"},{"startTime":564.068,"endTime":567.048,"body":"are somewhat contradictory."},{"startTime":567.198,"endTime":570.408,"body":"If you trust your people, wouldn't you"},{"startTime":567.198,"endTime":570.408,"body":"ask your managers to say, go figure out"},{"startTime":570.648,"endTime":572.608,"body":"the best way to achieve your outcomes."},{"startTime":572.708,"endTime":576.038,"body":"If you think it's hybrid, if you think"},{"startTime":572.708,"endTime":576.038,"body":"it's in person, if you think it's remote,"},{"startTime":576.308,"endTime":579.668,"body":"whatever, and it doesn't have to be"},{"startTime":576.308,"endTime":579.668,"body":"the same for all your managers, right?"},{"startTime":579.728,"endTime":582.318,"body":"Depending on the type of work"},{"startTime":579.728,"endTime":582.318,"body":"that their groups are doing."},{"startTime":582.498,"endTime":585.648,"body":"I would think that's the way"},{"startTime":582.498,"endTime":585.648,"body":"he would've proceeded, right?"},{"startTime":585.648,"endTime":586.578,"body":"If he had that trust."},{"startTime":586.578,"endTime":589.248,"body":"But what I see instead in this rant is."},{"startTime":589.548,"endTime":593.698,"body":"I'm telling you, I don't trust people"},{"startTime":589.548,"endTime":593.698,"body":"Unless I see 'em this is exactly the"},{"startTime":593.698,"endTime":599.258,"body":"kind of mandate or dictate that evolves"},{"startTime":593.698,"endTime":599.258,"body":"into new devices like mouse, jiggers."},{"startTime":599.328,"endTime":599.537,"body":"Okay."},{"startTime":599.862,"endTime":603.822,"body":"So I'm not at my desk, but"},{"startTime":599.862,"endTime":603.822,"body":"you can see me moving stuff."},{"startTime":603.882,"endTime":604.872,"body":"My mouse is moving."},{"startTime":604.872,"endTime":605.232,"body":"Right?"},{"startTime":605.472,"endTime":609.012,"body":"And as long as that battery keeps"},{"startTime":605.472,"endTime":609.012,"body":"going, you think I'm working well"},{"startTime":609.012,"endTime":610.322,"body":"sign me on for some mouse jigglers."},{"startTime":610.322,"endTime":610.632,"body":"All right."},{"startTime":610.632,"endTime":613.482,"body":"I don't want to give points in this"},{"startTime":610.632,"endTime":613.482,"body":"section because I'm gonna lose, but if"},{"startTime":613.482,"endTime":617.422,"body":"I'm gonna give points in this section, my"},{"startTime":613.482,"endTime":617.422,"body":"points are only gonna be given in bananas."},{"startTime":617.662,"endTime":620.942,"body":"Zero bananas for Jamie Diamond"},{"startTime":617.662,"endTime":620.942,"body":"and three bananas for working"},{"startTime":620.942,"endTime":621.932,"body":"remotely in those categories."},{"startTime":621.932,"endTime":622.592,"body":"Three bananas."},{"startTime":622.592,"endTime":623.642,"body":"Yeah, that's what I think."},{"startTime":623.942,"endTime":624.302,"body":"All right."},{"startTime":624.302,"endTime":628.302,"body":"He could have made better points here,"},{"startTime":624.302,"endTime":628.302,"body":"but I feel it is kind of undermine,"},{"startTime":628.302,"endTime":630.252,"body":"it's like, remote is not the problem."},{"startTime":630.342,"endTime":633.732,"body":"The problem is you're not setting"},{"startTime":630.342,"endTime":633.732,"body":"goals for these people very clearly."},{"startTime":633.732,"endTime":634.482,"body":"that really is a problem."},{"startTime":634.482,"endTime":636.312,"body":"Well, for me, it's a"},{"startTime":634.482,"endTime":636.312,"body":"bigger problem than that."},{"startTime":636.592,"endTime":639.592,"body":"For me, the problem is you are"},{"startTime":636.592,"endTime":639.592,"body":"establishing the type of culture"},{"startTime":639.712,"endTime":642.832,"body":"that you think you want, but is that"},{"startTime":639.712,"endTime":642.832,"body":"really the right culture to be establ?"},{"startTime":643.222,"endTime":643.312,"body":"Mm-hmm."},{"startTime":643.432,"endTime":643.792,"body":"Oh yeah."},{"startTime":643.792,"endTime":644.752,"body":"The other part of it is like."},{"startTime":645.217,"endTime":648.967,"body":"It's a little bit of, I don't know"},{"startTime":645.217,"endTime":648.967,"body":"how to establish the right goals."},{"startTime":649.147,"endTime":654.717,"body":"So I'm kind of like raging against a"},{"startTime":649.147,"endTime":654.717,"body":"machine I was forced to work remotely."},{"startTime":654.777,"endTime":654.987,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":655.317,"endTime":659.417,"body":"And I'm mad about it , I don't have the"},{"startTime":655.317,"endTime":659.417,"body":"education to figure out how to change my"},{"startTime":659.457,"endTime":663.837,"body":"organizational design from the old way"},{"startTime":659.457,"endTime":663.837,"body":"of thinking to the new way of thinking."},{"startTime":664.077,"endTime":667.127,"body":"And I never thought that this was"},{"startTime":664.077,"endTime":667.127,"body":"a good idea in the first place."},{"startTime":667.127,"endTime":668.837,"body":"But I've been forced to do it."},{"startTime":668.837,"endTime":671.027,"body":"So this is boiling over"},{"startTime":668.837,"endTime":671.027,"body":"the top of the pot."},{"startTime":671.327,"endTime":673.177,"body":"Something that's been simmering for sure."},{"startTime":673.237,"endTime":673.897,"body":"I agree with that."},{"startTime":673.897,"endTime":676.867,"body":"And I think later on in the podcast we're"},{"startTime":673.897,"endTime":676.867,"body":"gonna touch upon something a little bit."},{"startTime":677.087,"endTime":677.897,"body":"along those lines."},{"startTime":677.897,"endTime":682.407,"body":"so I got one more section before we"},{"startTime":677.897,"endTime":682.407,"body":"start the real audio from this quote."},{"startTime":682.797,"endTime":683.427,"body":"Audio leak."},{"startTime":683.457,"endTime":683.547,"body":"Mm-hmm."},{"startTime":683.737,"endTime":686.927,"body":"he makes a little segment about"},{"startTime":683.737,"endTime":686.927,"body":"generational impact, which he does"},{"startTime":687.077,"endTime":690.377,"body":"follow up in a later section, but this"},{"startTime":687.077,"endTime":690.377,"body":"is the earlier one, so let me read it."},{"startTime":690.377,"endTime":693.117,"body":"He says, in a free world, if"},{"startTime":690.377,"endTime":693.117,"body":"you want to have a company"},{"startTime":693.117,"endTime":694.707,"body":"working from home, that's fine."},{"startTime":694.887,"endTime":696.417,"body":"Now your managing moved to Florida."},{"startTime":696.477,"endTime":698.817,"body":"We never made a promise"},{"startTime":696.477,"endTime":698.817,"body":"that it would be forever."},{"startTime":699.087,"endTime":700.767,"body":"That's their problem, not mine."},{"startTime":700.957,"endTime":703.417,"body":"people said we moved, we didn't move."},{"startTime":703.567,"endTime":705.982,"body":"We always told people we were going to it."},{"startTime":706.067,"endTime":707.597,"body":"It sounds like I'm all over the place."},{"startTime":707.657,"endTime":708.917,"body":"This is his real words, by the way."},{"startTime":709.187,"endTime":712.517,"body":"We always told people that we"},{"startTime":709.187,"endTime":712.517,"body":"were going to be a work, from"},{"startTime":712.542,"endTime":713.922,"body":"the office type of company."},{"startTime":714.222,"endTime":716.772,"body":"And so we allowed three days and two days."},{"startTime":716.832,"endTime":719.382,"body":"I'm assuming it's like three,"},{"startTime":716.832,"endTime":719.382,"body":"three n and two, three n, two off."},{"startTime":719.382,"endTime":719.592,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":719.892,"endTime":721.272,"body":"But, but here are the problems."},{"startTime":721.272,"endTime":721.602,"body":"Okay?"},{"startTime":721.812,"endTime":722.772,"body":"They're substantial."},{"startTime":722.862,"endTime":724.932,"body":"The young generation is"},{"startTime":722.862,"endTime":724.932,"body":"being damaged by this."},{"startTime":725.052,"endTime":726.312,"body":"They may or may not be."},{"startTime":726.612,"endTime":729.762,"body":"In your particular staff, but"},{"startTime":726.612,"endTime":729.762,"body":"they are being left behind"},{"startTime":729.762,"endTime":731.952,"body":"socially ideas, meeting people."},{"startTime":732.042,"endTime":735.592,"body":"In fact, my guess is most of you"},{"startTime":732.042,"endTime":735.592,"body":"live in communities a heck of a"},{"startTime":735.592,"endTime":737.722,"body":"lot less diverse than this room."},{"startTime":738.022,"endTime":738.862,"body":"What room is he in?"},{"startTime":739.062,"endTime":740.172,"body":"You mean like the boardroom?"},{"startTime":740.172,"endTime":742.212,"body":"and so, it all has these kinds of effects."},{"startTime":742.212,"endTime":745.992,"body":"We actually see these other kids"},{"startTime":742.212,"endTime":745.992,"body":"slowly being left behind, and I"},{"startTime":745.992,"endTime":747.642,"body":"won't do that to the younger kids."},{"startTime":747.732,"endTime":749.262,"body":"What younger kids are in the boardroom?"},{"startTime":749.312,"endTime":751.052,"body":"So to say they're being left behind."},{"startTime":751.242,"endTime":753.952,"body":"the next, generation doesn't"},{"startTime":751.242,"endTime":753.952,"body":"wanna be cooped up they want the"},{"startTime":753.952,"endTime":755.302,"body":"freedom to work from anywhere."},{"startTime":755.402,"endTime":755.912,"body":"A train."},{"startTime":755.912,"endTime":757.307,"body":"They have wifi on trains now."},{"startTime":757.382,"endTime":758.102,"body":"Jamie Choo Choo."},{"startTime":758.132,"endTime":760.423,"body":"Imagine that welcome to 2025."},{"startTime":760.632,"endTime":762.921,"body":"the claim is the younger"},{"startTime":760.632,"endTime":762.921,"body":"generation is being damaged."},{"startTime":762.921,"endTime":764.001,"body":"They're being left behind."},{"startTime":764.051,"endTime":767.231,"body":", societally because they're not meeting"},{"startTime":764.051,"endTime":767.231,"body":"people because they're not mixing"},{"startTime":767.231,"endTime":771.341,"body":"with people and, and, and, and having"},{"startTime":767.231,"endTime":771.341,"body":"ideas challenged person to person."},{"startTime":771.341,"endTime":772.961,"body":"They're being left behind"},{"startTime":771.341,"endTime":772.961,"body":"that That's the claim."},{"startTime":773.021,"endTime":773.261,"body":"Okay."},{"startTime":773.561,"endTime":775.811,"body":"That is the claim, but I"},{"startTime":773.561,"endTime":775.811,"body":"think it's a hollow claim."},{"startTime":775.861,"endTime":780.601,"body":"Your ideas could be shared using a"},{"startTime":775.861,"endTime":780.601,"body":"plethora of different technologies now"},{"startTime":780.851,"endTime":784.941,"body":"and they could be challenged again using"},{"startTime":780.851,"endTime":784.941,"body":"a plethora of technologies the only"},{"startTime":784.941,"endTime":788.371,"body":"thing I would say the young generation is"},{"startTime":784.941,"endTime":788.371,"body":"losing out on, is the ability to spell."},{"startTime":788.371,"endTime":791.041,"body":"'cause they always abbreviate"},{"startTime":788.371,"endTime":791.041,"body":"things on their devices."},{"startTime":791.101,"endTime":791.341,"body":"Alright?"},{"startTime":791.341,"endTime":793.651,"body":"But AI is to the rescue again."},{"startTime":793.651,"endTime":798.031,"body":"So I think in 2025 we shouldn't be"},{"startTime":793.651,"endTime":798.031,"body":"saying that the young generations"},{"startTime":798.031,"endTime":801.421,"body":"being left behind if they're not"},{"startTime":798.031,"endTime":801.421,"body":"in four walls that you can see"},{"startTime":801.721,"endTime":803.821,"body":"them in That to me is ludicrous."},{"startTime":804.021,"endTime":805.881,"body":"I'm defending Jamie Diamond here, okay?"},{"startTime":805.881,"endTime":806.421,"body":"Mm-hmm."},{"startTime":806.856,"endTime":808.716,"body":"And I don't know how I got this job."},{"startTime":808.806,"endTime":809.676,"body":"I hope it pays."},{"startTime":809.856,"endTime":810.876,"body":"That's, that's what I'm saying here."},{"startTime":810.876,"endTime":812.016,"body":"It pays in bananas, man."},{"startTime":812.076,"endTime":814.096,"body":"I mean, listen, I like bananas."},{"startTime":814.096,"endTime":814.996,"body":"I actually like bananas."},{"startTime":814.996,"endTime":818.466,"body":"So they're like this marshmallow,"},{"startTime":814.996,"endTime":818.466,"body":"peanut buttery kind of flavor."},{"startTime":818.466,"endTime":823.496,"body":"I dunno what kind of bananas I'm eating,"},{"startTime":818.466,"endTime":823.496,"body":"but, junior people, need in person"},{"startTime":823.586,"endTime":825.746,"body":"on the spot, in the zone mentorship."},{"startTime":825.746,"endTime":830.491,"body":"they need in the conversation mentorship"},{"startTime":825.746,"endTime":830.491,"body":"like when you're together in a room and"},{"startTime":830.491,"endTime":834.721,"body":"you are talking through things, there"},{"startTime":830.491,"endTime":834.721,"body":"is a kind of side eye body language,"},{"startTime":834.771,"endTime":838.191,"body":"there's some kind of on the spot"},{"startTime":834.771,"endTime":838.191,"body":"coaching that can be done in person"},{"startTime":838.341,"endTime":842.731,"body":"that just doesn't translate to online,"},{"startTime":838.341,"endTime":842.731,"body":"you can follow up after a meeting or"},{"startTime":842.731,"endTime":846.091,"body":"slack people while the meeting's going"},{"startTime":842.731,"endTime":846.091,"body":"on and do some in-person coaching."},{"startTime":846.241,"endTime":851.331,"body":"But the major claim we need to talk"},{"startTime":846.241,"endTime":851.331,"body":"about is that remote work stunts."},{"startTime":851.631,"endTime":852.651,"body":"Professional development."},{"startTime":852.811,"endTime":854.491,"body":"that's the heart of what"},{"startTime":852.811,"endTime":854.491,"body":"we need to talk about here."},{"startTime":854.681,"endTime":860.211,"body":"on this specific topic of not being in"},{"startTime":854.681,"endTime":860.211,"body":"the same room, that trumps being remote."},{"startTime":860.331,"endTime":863.991,"body":"The problem we have today"},{"startTime":860.331,"endTime":863.991,"body":"is we have a workforce that"},{"startTime":863.991,"endTime":865.761,"body":"is geographically dispersed."},{"startTime":866.011,"endTime":870.611,"body":"It's corporate America that went"},{"startTime":866.011,"endTime":870.611,"body":"out seeking cheap labor overseas."},{"startTime":870.611,"endTime":873.191,"body":"So you all caused this"},{"startTime":870.611,"endTime":873.191,"body":"problem, Jamie, right?"},{"startTime":873.251,"endTime":874.301,"body":"To try and save money."},{"startTime":874.391,"endTime":875.921,"body":"Listen, you call it cheap labor."},{"startTime":875.921,"endTime":877.841,"body":"I call it slave labor, but let's continue."},{"startTime":877.871,"endTime":878.441,"body":"exactly."},{"startTime":878.481,"endTime":879.351,"body":"cheap slave labor."},{"startTime":879.461,"endTime":881.561,"body":"So now you've caused this problem."},{"startTime":881.771,"endTime":883.781,"body":"You can't say everybody"},{"startTime":881.771,"endTime":883.781,"body":"should be in the same room."},{"startTime":883.781,"endTime":887.351,"body":"Are you gonna get all of those offshore"},{"startTime":883.781,"endTime":887.351,"body":"people to fly over for every meeting?"},{"startTime":887.591,"endTime":890.161,"body":"I guarantee, first of all,"},{"startTime":887.591,"endTime":890.161,"body":"I'm on Jamie Dimon's side."},{"startTime":890.221,"endTime":892.681,"body":"He's not talking about remote people"},{"startTime":890.221,"endTime":892.681,"body":"when he's talking about this rant."},{"startTime":892.891,"endTime":896.371,"body":"First of all, he's, he's definitely"},{"startTime":892.891,"endTime":896.371,"body":"not referencing anybody in India."},{"startTime":896.746,"endTime":902.536,"body":"Jamie Dimon's not going to the JPMC"},{"startTime":896.746,"endTime":902.536,"body":"India office to work for a month."},{"startTime":902.686,"endTime":903.556,"body":"Okay, fair enough."},{"startTime":903.556,"endTime":905.836,"body":"So let's talk about in"},{"startTime":903.556,"endTime":905.836,"body":"person in the office."},{"startTime":905.986,"endTime":910.126,"body":"Staff being remote doesn't necessarily"},{"startTime":905.986,"endTime":910.126,"body":"mean they're overseas or in India"},{"startTime":910.136,"endTime":912.806,"body":"They could be geographically"},{"startTime":910.136,"endTime":912.806,"body":"dispersed even within the"},{"startTime":912.806,"endTime":915.026,"body":"us, Canada, wherever, right?"},{"startTime":915.506,"endTime":918.446,"body":"How do you get everyone"},{"startTime":915.506,"endTime":918.446,"body":"together all the time?"},{"startTime":918.756,"endTime":922.616,"body":"I will yield on the topic that in"},{"startTime":918.756,"endTime":922.616,"body":"an ideal scenario, there's nothing"},{"startTime":922.616,"endTime":925.826,"body":"that beats face-to-face conversation"},{"startTime":922.616,"endTime":925.826,"body":"and if people who have listened to"},{"startTime":925.826,"endTime":929.156,"body":"our podcast before, they know I'm"},{"startTime":925.826,"endTime":929.156,"body":"a big fan of the journeyman model."},{"startTime":929.186,"endTime":929.546,"body":"Right."},{"startTime":929.546,"endTime":934.016,"body":"So the ability to actually look up at"},{"startTime":929.546,"endTime":934.016,"body":"somebody and say, am I, how am I doing?"},{"startTime":934.086,"endTime":934.336,"body":"yeah."},{"startTime":934.351,"endTime":936.391,"body":"And be coached and mentored, no doubt."},{"startTime":936.571,"endTime":938.671,"body":"But that was then, it's not today."},{"startTime":938.731,"endTime":942.491,"body":"Well, what would you say if I said"},{"startTime":938.731,"endTime":942.491,"body":"listen, it's easier to establish and"},{"startTime":942.491,"endTime":946.191,"body":"move that relationship forward, , that"},{"startTime":942.491,"endTime":946.191,"body":"sponsorship relationship, especially"},{"startTime":946.191,"endTime":949.581,"body":"when we have like I've talked to, a, I"},{"startTime":946.191,"endTime":949.581,"body":"don't wanna make a big thing about this"},{"startTime":949.581,"endTime":950.841,"body":"because it's, there's no women here."},{"startTime":950.841,"endTime":954.391,"body":"when I talk to women about advancing"},{"startTime":950.841,"endTime":954.391,"body":"in corporate America, the main thing"},{"startTime":954.391,"endTime":956.851,"body":"that comes up is we need sponsorship."},{"startTime":957.001,"endTime":961.131,"body":"what would you say if I said it's easier"},{"startTime":957.001,"endTime":961.131,"body":"to get sponsorship when everyone is in"},{"startTime":961.131,"endTime":963.301,"body":"person, it's harder to do that online."},{"startTime":963.601,"endTime":964.621,"body":"Yeah, definitely it is."},{"startTime":964.621,"endTime":969.301,"body":"there's no arguing against that can"},{"startTime":964.621,"endTime":969.301,"body":"you get people in person all the time?"},{"startTime":969.331,"endTime":969.841,"body":"You can't."},{"startTime":969.901,"endTime":971.311,"body":"So when you can go for it."},{"startTime":971.341,"endTime":975.491,"body":"When you can't make do by using"},{"startTime":971.341,"endTime":975.491,"body":"social media apps, that's your"},{"startTime":975.491,"endTime":979.151,"body":"next best thing, but there's more"},{"startTime":975.491,"endTime":979.151,"body":"to it than just the tooling side"},{"startTime":979.151,"endTime":979.301,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":979.571,"endTime":980.771,"body":"There's the human side of it."},{"startTime":980.771,"endTime":982.871,"body":"Be open to being reached by."},{"startTime":983.216,"endTime":984.476,"body":"People that you're working with."},{"startTime":984.596,"endTime":988.076,"body":"For example, there's a level"},{"startTime":984.596,"endTime":988.076,"body":"of reasonableness here, If"},{"startTime":988.076,"endTime":991.376,"body":"somebody has a question that"},{"startTime":988.076,"endTime":991.376,"body":"can wait, then it should wait."},{"startTime":991.586,"endTime":994.736,"body":"But you have to make do is what"},{"startTime":991.586,"endTime":994.736,"body":"I'm saying, in today's environment."},{"startTime":994.766,"endTime":996.656,"body":"So it's not a one answer fits all."},{"startTime":996.656,"endTime":997.646,"body":"Ideally, yes."},{"startTime":997.796,"endTime":999.221,"body":"Be in the office, right."},{"startTime":999.221,"endTime":1002.206,"body":"But if, unless you're co-located,"},{"startTime":999.221,"endTime":1002.206,"body":"that's difficult to do."},{"startTime":1002.446,"endTime":1002.716,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":1003.016,"endTime":1006.256,"body":"Well, again, what got cut out of the"},{"startTime":1003.016,"endTime":1006.256,"body":"audio version of the ramp, which we,"},{"startTime":1006.256,"endTime":1009.586,"body":"we, we'll begin playing here in a second"},{"startTime":1006.256,"endTime":1009.586,"body":"when this, when this section's over."},{"startTime":1009.636,"endTime":1013.116,"body":"The original question was, I'm going"},{"startTime":1009.636,"endTime":1013.116,"body":"into an office and I'm getting online"},{"startTime":1013.116,"endTime":1014.966,"body":"with people that are, not in the office."},{"startTime":1014.996,"endTime":1017.616,"body":"So is it gonna be a"},{"startTime":1014.996,"endTime":1017.616,"body":"little bit my discretion?"},{"startTime":1017.616,"endTime":1019.746,"body":"And Jamie Diamond's answer"},{"startTime":1017.616,"endTime":1019.746,"body":"was no, absolutely not."},{"startTime":1020.226,"endTime":1022.296,"body":"Why would I trust you or your boss?"},{"startTime":1022.486,"endTime":1022.776,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":1022.776,"endTime":1029.076,"body":"But this specific topic, there's a little"},{"startTime":1022.776,"endTime":1029.076,"body":"bit of nuance there are some more junior"},{"startTime":1029.136,"endTime":1034.026,"body":"people in my workforce that it's easier"},{"startTime":1029.136,"endTime":1034.026,"body":"for them to get sponsorship in person."},{"startTime":1034.416,"endTime":1037.926,"body":"It's easier for them to walk around"},{"startTime":1034.416,"endTime":1037.926,"body":"to other people's desks to get."},{"startTime":1038.226,"endTime":1040.736,"body":"Inspired by the seeds of innovation."},{"startTime":1040.786,"endTime":1043.516,"body":"When we think about peer programming,"},{"startTime":1040.786,"endTime":1043.516,"body":"a senior will walk over to your desk"},{"startTime":1043.516,"endTime":1046.126,"body":"and look over your shoulder as you're"},{"startTime":1043.516,"endTime":1046.126,"body":"working through a hard problem."},{"startTime":1046.126,"endTime":1049.156,"body":"Or you can tap somebody in the cube next"},{"startTime":1046.126,"endTime":1049.156,"body":"to you to be like, Hey, come over here."},{"startTime":1049.156,"endTime":1053.326,"body":"'cause  I'm at my wits end with"},{"startTime":1049.156,"endTime":1053.326,"body":"this stupid JavaScript thing."},{"startTime":1053.326,"endTime":1055.966,"body":"'cause I hate front end development"},{"startTime":1053.326,"endTime":1055.966,"body":"or whatever that's a big advantage."},{"startTime":1055.966,"endTime":1057.106,"body":"There is no doubt about that."},{"startTime":1057.106,"endTime":1059.236,"body":"But it goes beyond just that right?"},{"startTime":1059.236,"endTime":1063.436,"body":"It's like the ability to just like"},{"startTime":1059.236,"endTime":1063.436,"body":"meeting somebody at the water cooler or"},{"startTime":1063.436,"endTime":1067.796,"body":"at the coffee machine and just talking"},{"startTime":1063.436,"endTime":1067.796,"body":"and fostering trust among your teammates."},{"startTime":1067.856,"endTime":1069.146,"body":"It's much easier in person."},{"startTime":1069.146,"endTime":1071.756,"body":", breaking bread together,"},{"startTime":1069.146,"endTime":1071.756,"body":"Having lunch, it's much easier."},{"startTime":1072.026,"endTime":1073.436,"body":"But is it feasible all the time?"},{"startTime":1073.586,"endTime":1076.436,"body":"Well, it's definitely not feasible"},{"startTime":1073.586,"endTime":1076.436,"body":"when half your team's in India"},{"startTime":1076.556,"endTime":1079.891,"body":"or in Seattle and you're in"},{"startTime":1076.556,"endTime":1079.891,"body":"Boston, , that's when you're onshore."},{"startTime":1080.051,"endTime":1083.961,"body":"But when your three developers are in"},{"startTime":1080.051,"endTime":1083.961,"body":"Costa Rica your tester is in Southern"},{"startTime":1083.961,"endTime":1087.661,"body":"California and your product manager"},{"startTime":1083.961,"endTime":1087.661,"body":"is in Florida, at that point, you"},{"startTime":1087.661,"endTime":1089.771,"body":"lose that social capital development."},{"startTime":1089.771,"endTime":1090.041,"body":"Right."},{"startTime":1090.041,"endTime":1092.621,"body":"And that's the price you pay for"},{"startTime":1090.041,"endTime":1092.621,"body":"trying to go after cheap labor."},{"startTime":1092.801,"endTime":1097.051,"body":"So back to Jamie Diamond, he's"},{"startTime":1092.801,"endTime":1097.051,"body":"saying be in office, I'm taking"},{"startTime":1097.051,"endTime":1098.431,"body":"the spirit of his argument."},{"startTime":1098.481,"endTime":1100.101,"body":"Not necessarily the"},{"startTime":1098.481,"endTime":1100.101,"body":"letter of his argument."},{"startTime":1100.156,"endTime":1102.916,"body":"The culture should be moving"},{"startTime":1100.156,"endTime":1102.916,"body":"to a place where you're saying,"},{"startTime":1102.916,"endTime":1104.676,"body":"listen, I want sponsorship."},{"startTime":1104.826,"endTime":1109.176,"body":"no matter where we are, I want my"},{"startTime":1104.826,"endTime":1109.176,"body":"culture to be recognizing people"},{"startTime":1109.226,"endTime":1113.336,"body":"and looking for opportunities to"},{"startTime":1109.226,"endTime":1113.336,"body":"move them up and on to the future."},{"startTime":1113.476,"endTime":1114.646,"body":"Same thing with innovation."},{"startTime":1114.796,"endTime":1118.336,"body":"if somebody on a call has an idea of"},{"startTime":1114.796,"endTime":1118.336,"body":"like, oh, I gotta get with this other"},{"startTime":1118.336,"endTime":1123.766,"body":"team to like, if they just added this new"},{"startTime":1118.336,"endTime":1123.766,"body":"variable to an endpoint and API we could"},{"startTime":1123.766,"endTime":1127.596,"body":"do this extra special thing or whatever"},{"startTime":1123.766,"endTime":1127.596,"body":"call them and get on a call immediately."},{"startTime":1127.646,"endTime":1130.856,"body":"There's no reason to wait until a"},{"startTime":1127.646,"endTime":1130.856,"body":"future refinement or , whenever your"},{"startTime":1130.856,"endTime":1135.056,"body":"team has a normal connect, reach out"},{"startTime":1130.856,"endTime":1135.056,"body":"to the tech leads and pull everyone"},{"startTime":1135.056,"endTime":1136.906,"body":"together Hey guys, can we connect today?"},{"startTime":1137.191,"endTime":1138.061,"body":"About this idea."},{"startTime":1138.061,"endTime":1140.421,"body":"it might be terrible, it might go"},{"startTime":1138.061,"endTime":1140.421,"body":"nowhere, , it didn't cost us anything"},{"startTime":1140.421,"endTime":1141.891,"body":"to talk about it for 10 minutes."},{"startTime":1142.051,"endTime":1145.911,"body":"There's a culture that sponsors"},{"startTime":1142.051,"endTime":1145.911,"body":"and promotes new ideas."},{"startTime":1146.361,"endTime":1149.751,"body":"And then there's every other culture"},{"startTime":1146.361,"endTime":1149.751,"body":"where it's like, you gotta, you're"},{"startTime":1149.751,"endTime":1153.601,"body":"waiting to to that day that you go in"},{"startTime":1149.751,"endTime":1153.601,"body":"the office To bring all this stuff up it"},{"startTime":1153.601,"endTime":1158.461,"body":"seems more cultural to me than it does"},{"startTime":1153.601,"endTime":1158.461,"body":"work from home or not work from home"},{"startTime":1158.461,"endTime":1162.071,"body":"or work from wherever you are in the"},{"startTime":1158.461,"endTime":1162.071,"body":"world, that seems less important to me"},{"startTime":1162.531,"endTime":1167.811,"body":"I also have to ask, is it just me at"},{"startTime":1162.531,"endTime":1167.811,"body":"this stage of experience in my career?"},{"startTime":1168.111,"endTime":1171.771,"body":"Because I know to get the best outta"},{"startTime":1168.111,"endTime":1171.771,"body":"my Indian developers, I gotta get on."},{"startTime":1171.771,"endTime":1176.181,"body":"Like if I'm on the east coast, I"},{"startTime":1171.771,"endTime":1176.181,"body":"gotta get on at 11:00 PM when they're"},{"startTime":1176.181,"endTime":1179.601,"body":"kicking their day off and say, Hey"},{"startTime":1176.181,"endTime":1179.601,"body":"guys, today we discovered this thing"},{"startTime":1179.601,"endTime":1180.921,"body":"and you need to know it right away."},{"startTime":1181.041,"endTime":1182.541,"body":"And you need to ask me, questions."},{"startTime":1182.841,"endTime":1188.151,"body":"Before I go to bed at 1145 or whatever,"},{"startTime":1182.841,"endTime":1188.151,"body":"so that you can get a jumpstarter on your"},{"startTime":1188.151,"endTime":1190.701,"body":"day and make the most impactful changes."},{"startTime":1190.771,"endTime":1194.411,"body":"when I wake up six hours later, I can"},{"startTime":1190.771,"endTime":1194.411,"body":"find out what you did and look at your"},{"startTime":1194.411,"endTime":1198.291,"body":"tests I feel there's an undercurrent"},{"startTime":1194.411,"endTime":1198.291,"body":"of another cultural thing that"},{"startTime":1198.291,"endTime":1201.261,"body":"Jamie Diamond is reacting against."},{"startTime":1201.411,"endTime":1204.861,"body":"This is what I meant earlier by being"},{"startTime":1201.411,"endTime":1204.861,"body":"available To your point if somebody has"},{"startTime":1204.861,"endTime":1206.701,"body":"an idea, just jump on a call right away."},{"startTime":1206.701,"endTime":1207.211,"body":"Sure."},{"startTime":1207.361,"endTime":1211.171,"body":"Or you could, because we are"},{"startTime":1207.361,"endTime":1211.171,"body":"challenged time zone wise, you"},{"startTime":1211.171,"endTime":1212.616,"body":"could have a chat channel, right?"},{"startTime":1212.621,"endTime":1212.911,"body":"Right."},{"startTime":1212.911,"endTime":1214.741,"body":"That you can post your"},{"startTime":1212.911,"endTime":1214.741,"body":"thoughts in and get."},{"startTime":1215.071,"endTime":1215.881,"body":"Feedback on it."},{"startTime":1215.981,"endTime":1220.241,"body":"And people are doing that to a certain"},{"startTime":1215.981,"endTime":1220.241,"body":"degree, but all of those sorts of"},{"startTime":1220.241,"endTime":1222.821,"body":"things aren't visible if you're"},{"startTime":1220.241,"endTime":1222.821,"body":"just looking for butts in seats."},{"startTime":1222.821,"endTime":1223.031,"body":"Right."},{"startTime":1223.241,"endTime":1225.911,"body":"And so you might not think"},{"startTime":1223.241,"endTime":1225.911,"body":"that they're actually working."},{"startTime":1226.071,"endTime":1227.421,"body":"Or being efficient."},{"startTime":1227.721,"endTime":1230.861,"body":"I being effective way trump's"},{"startTime":1227.721,"endTime":1230.861,"body":"being efficient in my opinion."},{"startTime":1231.011,"endTime":1232.391,"body":"But there's, that's where we are."},{"startTime":1232.541,"endTime":1236.086,"body":"for the purpose of this category, I"},{"startTime":1232.541,"endTime":1236.086,"body":"don't, feel like the strong points for"},{"startTime":1236.086,"endTime":1238.516,"body":"or against kind of Trump one another."},{"startTime":1238.516,"endTime":1242.296,"body":"I'm gonna give two bananas for"},{"startTime":1238.516,"endTime":1242.296,"body":"sponsorship and looking out for, corporate"},{"startTime":1242.296,"endTime":1243.856,"body":"innovation over the whole organization."},{"startTime":1244.156,"endTime":1247.736,"body":"And also two bananas against Jamie"},{"startTime":1244.156,"endTime":1247.736,"body":"Diamond because not understanding"},{"startTime":1247.736,"endTime":1251.876,"body":"that like as a CEO you control the"},{"startTime":1247.736,"endTime":1251.876,"body":"culture and can move things along."},{"startTime":1252.086,"endTime":1255.536,"body":"There's one finger pointing at the"},{"startTime":1252.086,"endTime":1255.536,"body":"people that are a problem in the culture."},{"startTime":1255.536,"endTime":1258.976,"body":"And four fingers pointing back at"},{"startTime":1255.536,"endTime":1258.976,"body":"you . No real movement in this category."},{"startTime":1259.056,"endTime":1262.446,"body":"The next section of the podcast,"},{"startTime":1259.056,"endTime":1262.446,"body":"we actually have the leak to audio."},{"startTime":1262.636,"endTime":1265.067,"body":"There's tons of YouTube videos,"},{"startTime":1262.636,"endTime":1265.067,"body":"TikTok videos,  about the,"},{"startTime":1265.246,"endTime":1266.266,"body":"the actual leak to audio."},{"startTime":1266.476,"endTime":1270.346,"body":"So from here you won't hear my"},{"startTime":1266.476,"endTime":1270.346,"body":"wonderful voice narrating Jamie Diamond."},{"startTime":1270.346,"endTime":1273.916,"body":"You'll actually hear Jamie Diamond"},{"startTime":1270.346,"endTime":1273.916,"body":"narrating Jamie Diamond, which I"},{"startTime":1273.916,"endTime":1277.756,"body":"have to say um, he might have had"},{"startTime":1273.916,"endTime":1277.756,"body":"one or two drinks before this."},{"startTime":1278.056,"endTime":1279.046,"body":"Yeah, I don't, I don't know."},{"startTime":1279.476,"endTime":1284.64,"body":"A lot of you were on the  Zoom"},{"startTime":1279.476,"endTime":1284.64,"body":"and you were doing the following."},{"startTime":1284.76,"endTime":1285.3,"body":"Okay."},{"startTime":1285.36,"endTime":1287.85,"body":"You know, look at your mail,"},{"startTime":1285.36,"endTime":1287.85,"body":"sending a text to each other"},{"startTime":1287.85,"endTime":1290.92,"body":"when  the other person is okay."},{"startTime":1290.92,"endTime":1295.03,"body":"Not paying attention, not reading your"},{"startTime":1290.92,"endTime":1295.03,"body":"stuff you know, and if you don't think"},{"startTime":1295.03,"endTime":1299.345,"body":"that slows down efficiency, creativity"},{"startTime":1295.03,"endTime":1299.345,"body":"creates rudeness and so it does."},{"startTime":1299.535,"endTime":1299.825,"body":"Okay."},{"startTime":1299.885,"endTime":1302.075,"body":"And when I found out, the"},{"startTime":1299.885,"endTime":1302.075,"body":"people are doing that."},{"startTime":1302.27,"endTime":1304.301,"body":"You, you don't do at my  meetings."},{"startTime":1304.601,"endTime":1305.411,"body":"You're gonna meet with me."},{"startTime":1305.411,"endTime":1306.431,"body":"You got my attention."},{"startTime":1306.491,"endTime":1307.271,"body":"You got my focus."},{"startTime":1307.451,"endTime":1310.275,"body":"I don't bring my  phone I'm"},{"startTime":1307.451,"endTime":1310.275,"body":"not saying text to people."},{"startTime":1310.305,"endTime":1310.575,"body":"Okay."},{"startTime":1310.575,"endTime":1314.175,"body":"It simply doesn't work and it"},{"startTime":1310.575,"endTime":1314.175,"body":"doesn't work for creativity."},{"startTime":1314.175,"endTime":1315.645,"body":"It slows down decision making."},{"startTime":1315.84,"endTime":1317.9,"body":"And don't gimme the  to work from home."},{"startTime":1317.9,"endTime":1318.68,"body":"Friday works."},{"startTime":1318.795,"endTime":1320.935,"body":"I call a lot of people on Friday."},{"startTime":1321.025,"endTime":1322.515,"body":"They're not a  person to get ahold of,"},{"startTime":1322.875,"endTime":1326.835,"body":"He's saying, zoom is a dysfunctional"},{"startTime":1322.875,"endTime":1326.835,"body":"way of running a company."},{"startTime":1326.885,"endTime":1330.815,"body":"People are being rude by DM and"},{"startTime":1326.885,"endTime":1330.815,"body":"the digital tools are enhancing"},{"startTime":1330.815,"endTime":1335.015,"body":"these bad behaviors and meetings"},{"startTime":1330.815,"endTime":1335.015,"body":"are being run poorly, basically."},{"startTime":1335.255,"endTime":1336.785,"body":"That, that, that's his claims here."},{"startTime":1337.085,"endTime":1339.965,"body":"Yeah, I think just kind of"},{"startTime":1337.085,"endTime":1339.965,"body":"just rebut that a little bit."},{"startTime":1340.445,"endTime":1342.39,"body":"When you're in person,"},{"startTime":1340.445,"endTime":1342.39,"body":"you're still doing that."},{"startTime":1342.54,"endTime":1346.805,"body":"I've seen people holding their phones"},{"startTime":1342.54,"endTime":1346.805,"body":"under the desk, so this doesn't go away."},{"startTime":1346.835,"endTime":1348.965,"body":"Ultimately, it comes down to having good."},{"startTime":1349.445,"endTime":1353.815,"body":"Team spirit and culture and that can"},{"startTime":1349.445,"endTime":1353.815,"body":"happen whether you're on Zoom or not."},{"startTime":1354.205,"endTime":1357.385,"body":"If you don't have it, don't"},{"startTime":1354.205,"endTime":1357.385,"body":"look at the tooling and blame"},{"startTime":1357.435,"endTime":1358.695,"body":"just the remote situation."},{"startTime":1358.705,"endTime":1359.815,"body":"there's more to it than that."},{"startTime":1359.995,"endTime":1363.655,"body":"I've been part of very effective"},{"startTime":1359.995,"endTime":1363.655,"body":"Zoom meetings where you do see"},{"startTime":1363.655,"endTime":1367.68,"body":"people occasionally meetings"},{"startTime":1363.655,"endTime":1367.68,"body":"are long  and people get bored."},{"startTime":1367.8,"endTime":1370.73,"body":"So instead of admonishing"},{"startTime":1367.8,"endTime":1370.73,"body":"them, give 'em a break"},{"startTime":1370.78,"endTime":1372.16,"body":"Again, I'm on Jamie Damon's side."},{"startTime":1372.31,"endTime":1376.6,"body":"I'm just trying to figure out what"},{"startTime":1372.31,"endTime":1376.6,"body":"I can do to run a 300,000 person"},{"startTime":1376.66,"endTime":1379.15,"body":"global company as best as I can."},{"startTime":1379.35,"endTime":1382.05,"body":"But also if I'm Jamie Diamond,"},{"startTime":1379.35,"endTime":1382.05,"body":"I'm, asking you like, Hey, I don't"},{"startTime":1382.05,"endTime":1383.31,"body":"know a better way to do this."},{"startTime":1383.49,"endTime":1384.69,"body":"What is a better way to do this?"},{"startTime":1384.69,"endTime":1387.06,"body":"I got all these people, sniping"},{"startTime":1384.69,"endTime":1387.06,"body":"at each other or whatever, and"},{"startTime":1387.25,"endTime":1388.84,"body":"this is not the culture I want."},{"startTime":1388.99,"endTime":1390.22,"body":"what are my options here?"},{"startTime":1390.37,"endTime":1394.27,"body":"I think so first of all, your"},{"startTime":1390.37,"endTime":1394.27,"body":"options should not be to mandate"},{"startTime":1394.27,"endTime":1396.7,"body":"that people don't get on Zoom."},{"startTime":1396.75,"endTime":1402.15,"body":"Your options probably include letting"},{"startTime":1396.75,"endTime":1402.15,"body":"the managers that report to you figure"},{"startTime":1402.15,"endTime":1403.71,"body":"out how they wanna run their teams."},{"startTime":1403.71,"endTime":1406.31,"body":"Because every team is unique,"},{"startTime":1403.71,"endTime":1406.31,"body":"So let them figure it out."},{"startTime":1406.36,"endTime":1407.92,"body":"Trust them to get the job done."},{"startTime":1407.92,"endTime":1411.55,"body":"Give them some outcomes and goals"},{"startTime":1407.92,"endTime":1411.55,"body":"that they buy into, and then"},{"startTime":1411.58,"endTime":1413.23,"body":"they will fulfill those goals."},{"startTime":1413.41,"endTime":1415.48,"body":"What if I don't like the way"},{"startTime":1413.41,"endTime":1415.48,"body":"they're fulfilling those goals."},{"startTime":1415.945,"endTime":1418.675,"body":"Then you mandate they come back to"},{"startTime":1415.945,"endTime":1418.675,"body":"the office like he's doing, right?"},{"startTime":1418.675,"endTime":1420.605,"body":"Oh, no, because, what do you really want?"},{"startTime":1420.965,"endTime":1424.145,"body":"Do you wanna exercise control over"},{"startTime":1420.965,"endTime":1424.145,"body":"each and every one of your 300,000"},{"startTime":1424.145,"endTime":1426.395,"body":"employees or do you want good outcomes?"},{"startTime":1426.515,"endTime":1428.985,"body":"So your share price goes up, and"},{"startTime":1426.515,"endTime":1428.985,"body":"therefore your bonus goes up."},{"startTime":1428.99,"endTime":1432.86,"body":"We haven't talked about JPMC share"},{"startTime":1428.99,"endTime":1432.86,"body":"price because JPMC share price"},{"startTime":1432.86,"endTime":1435.11,"body":"has just gone up and up since"},{"startTime":1432.86,"endTime":1435.11,"body":"they've been working from home."},{"startTime":1435.11,"endTime":1439.22,"body":"only now very recently since February"},{"startTime":1435.11,"endTime":1439.22,"body":"when these mandates kind of went into"},{"startTime":1439.22,"endTime":1440.96,"body":"place, has things been dropping down?"},{"startTime":1440.96,"endTime":1443.63,"body":"So like, so you could probably take"},{"startTime":1440.96,"endTime":1443.63,"body":"that out of the equation because"},{"startTime":1443.63,"endTime":1445.01,"body":"everybody's share price has been going on."},{"startTime":1445.01,"endTime":1448.97,"body":"I, I would say, I would say nothing"},{"startTime":1445.01,"endTime":1448.97,"body":"he's done with pushing back against"},{"startTime":1448.97,"endTime":1451.31,"body":"work from home has financial impact."},{"startTime":1451.51,"endTime":1452.59,"body":"Cultural impact."},{"startTime":1452.65,"endTime":1453.07,"body":"Yes."},{"startTime":1453.1,"endTime":1453.49,"body":"Yes."},{"startTime":1453.49,"endTime":1454.99,"body":"I'm trying to make an cultural impact."},{"startTime":1454.99,"endTime":1457.33,"body":"I'm trying to say we need"},{"startTime":1454.99,"endTime":1457.33,"body":"to build a great company."},{"startTime":1457.63,"endTime":1460.87,"body":"The things I've done pushing against"},{"startTime":1457.63,"endTime":1460.87,"body":"remote haven't seen to make an impact."},{"startTime":1460.87,"endTime":1464.98,"body":"So I think if, again, I'm"},{"startTime":1460.87,"endTime":1464.98,"body":"defending Jamie Diamond here again."},{"startTime":1465.28,"endTime":1467.98,"body":"It doesn't, it seems that"},{"startTime":1465.28,"endTime":1467.98,"body":"I have a culture problem."},{"startTime":1468.28,"endTime":1471.07,"body":"How can I make an impact on my"},{"startTime":1468.28,"endTime":1471.07,"body":"culture problem knowing that"},{"startTime":1471.12,"endTime":1476.38,"body":"I'm still gonna be global, I"},{"startTime":1471.12,"endTime":1476.38,"body":"still need global communications,"},{"startTime":1476.83,"endTime":1479.08,"body":"some of which are remote, right?"},{"startTime":1479.08,"endTime":1482.14,"body":"Unless I'm willing to pay"},{"startTime":1479.08,"endTime":1482.14,"body":"times a thousand or whatever."},{"startTime":1482.14,"endTime":1482.2,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":1482.2,"endTime":1486.7,"body":"To have people start ver, start"},{"startTime":1482.2,"endTime":1486.7,"body":"really traveling office to office,"},{"startTime":1486.76,"endTime":1488.86,"body":"to have in person syncs to be"},{"startTime":1486.76,"endTime":1488.86,"body":"like, that's not gonna happen."},{"startTime":1488.89,"endTime":1489.77,"body":"Yeah yeah."},{"startTime":1489.77,"endTime":1489.771,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":1489.826,"endTime":1491.746,"body":"You can bankrupt the whole"},{"startTime":1489.826,"endTime":1491.746,"body":"company, , I'm not gonna do that."},{"startTime":1491.746,"endTime":1493.816,"body":"what I am asking you again"},{"startTime":1494.056,"endTime":1498.976,"body":"Like you, you probably could just"},{"startTime":1494.056,"endTime":1498.976,"body":"have virtual meetings as long"},{"startTime":1498.976,"endTime":1501.706,"body":"as there's someone to facilitate"},{"startTime":1498.976,"endTime":1501.706,"body":"those to make sure that you're."},{"startTime":1502.006,"endTime":1503.086,"body":"Moving towards the goal."},{"startTime":1503.086,"endTime":1503.926,"body":"Like what is the goal?"},{"startTime":1503.926,"endTime":1506.326,"body":"What is the, like in the military,"},{"startTime":1503.926,"endTime":1506.326,"body":"you have commander's intent."},{"startTime":1506.536,"endTime":1509.356,"body":"You have the, Hey, this is the"},{"startTime":1506.536,"endTime":1509.356,"body":"letter of what I need done."},{"startTime":1509.656,"endTime":1512.716,"body":"But the commander's intent outlines"},{"startTime":1509.656,"endTime":1512.716,"body":"the spirit of like, Hey, this is"},{"startTime":1512.716,"endTime":1514.246,"body":"what I like, this is what we need."},{"startTime":1514.396,"endTime":1514.666,"body":"Right."},{"startTime":1515.086,"endTime":1516.226,"body":"The what and the why."},{"startTime":1516.406,"endTime":1516.826,"body":"Exactly."},{"startTime":1516.826,"endTime":1520.246,"body":"and then let the teams figure out"},{"startTime":1516.826,"endTime":1520.246,"body":"how We always say that in agile, but"},{"startTime":1520.396,"endTime":1522.166,"body":"it's actually true here too, right?"},{"startTime":1522.171,"endTime":1526.021,"body":"So if you have the tooling, for"},{"startTime":1522.171,"endTime":1526.021,"body":"facilitating virtual meetings,"},{"startTime":1526.031,"endTime":1530.171,"body":"the part that's lacking might well"},{"startTime":1526.031,"endTime":1530.171,"body":"be decent facilitation skills."},{"startTime":1530.221,"endTime":1533.551,"body":"And recognizing the fact that"},{"startTime":1530.221,"endTime":1533.551,"body":"people are in different time zones."},{"startTime":1533.601,"endTime":1539.781,"body":"some people on your call will be during"},{"startTime":1533.601,"endTime":1539.781,"body":"the day, EST time, let's say, or PSD time."},{"startTime":1539.931,"endTime":1543.411,"body":"Other people might well be talking"},{"startTime":1539.931,"endTime":1543.411,"body":"to you from their dinner table."},{"startTime":1543.491,"endTime":1544.571,"body":"so allow for that."},{"startTime":1544.886,"endTime":1545.606,"body":"In your calls."},{"startTime":1545.666,"endTime":1548.061,"body":"It's okay if somebody's kid"},{"startTime":1545.666,"endTime":1548.061,"body":"comes running up to them"},{"startTime":1548.161,"endTime":1551.566,"body":"And taps 'em on the shoulder"},{"startTime":1548.161,"endTime":1551.566,"body":"because that's a normal thing to do."},{"startTime":1551.806,"endTime":1555.256,"body":"And where they are, this kid's about"},{"startTime":1551.806,"endTime":1555.256,"body":"to go to bed, they just, you know out"},{"startTime":1555.256,"endTime":1557.546,"body":"there to kiss goodnight To their parent."},{"startTime":1557.906,"endTime":1558.746,"body":"Allow for that."},{"startTime":1558.791,"endTime":1562.706,"body":"it needs you to recognize that"},{"startTime":1558.791,"endTime":1562.706,"body":"and then work toward that culture."},{"startTime":1562.706,"endTime":1566.036,"body":"I feel this is a culture that"},{"startTime":1562.706,"endTime":1566.036,"body":"we're outlining that is not a"},{"startTime":1566.036,"endTime":1570.926,"body":"superior culture when it comes"},{"startTime":1566.036,"endTime":1570.926,"body":"to asynchronous communications."},{"startTime":1571.226,"endTime":1573.206,"body":"When you say not superior,"},{"startTime":1571.226,"endTime":1573.206,"body":"what do you mean?"},{"startTime":1573.456,"endTime":1573.906,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":1573.906,"endTime":1577.001,"body":"I I, I thought you were gonna have extra"},{"startTime":1573.906,"endTime":1577.001,"body":"questions about a lot of people will"},{"startTime":1577.001,"endTime":1578.411,"body":"probably have extra questions about that."},{"startTime":1578.411,"endTime":1583.711,"body":"is there a synchronous communication"},{"startTime":1578.411,"endTime":1583.711,"body":"culture That's being pushed back against"},{"startTime":1584.081,"endTime":1589.121,"body":"which is my manager comes down, says, I"},{"startTime":1584.081,"endTime":1589.121,"body":"need this thing, I need it by this date."},{"startTime":1589.391,"endTime":1590.141,"body":"Make it happen."},{"startTime":1590.441,"endTime":1591.221,"body":"You say Yes."},{"startTime":1591.221,"endTime":1592.931,"body":"There's really not a lot"},{"startTime":1591.221,"endTime":1592.931,"body":"you can say other than that."},{"startTime":1593.231,"endTime":1598.921,"body":"And then the updates to get to that"},{"startTime":1593.231,"endTime":1598.921,"body":"point are done asynchronously or you"},{"startTime":1598.921,"endTime":1604.381,"body":"say you need this thing and then the"},{"startTime":1598.921,"endTime":1604.381,"body":"asynchronous pushback in order to do"},{"startTime":1604.381,"endTime":1607.321,"body":"this thing, we need X and Y and Z, right?"},{"startTime":1607.321,"endTime":1608.581,"body":"Well, we need to solve these things."},{"startTime":1608.761,"endTime":1612.961,"body":"Or it could potentially be these other"},{"startTime":1608.761,"endTime":1612.961,"body":"teams need to do these other things,"},{"startTime":1612.961,"endTime":1616.831,"body":"and then you as a manager have to"},{"startTime":1612.961,"endTime":1616.831,"body":"go facilitate those in other parts"},{"startTime":1616.831,"endTime":1620.731,"body":"of the business, right?, there is a"},{"startTime":1616.831,"endTime":1620.731,"body":"superior, asynchronous communication"},{"startTime":1620.731,"endTime":1624.751,"body":"mechanism that goes back to we had"},{"startTime":1620.731,"endTime":1624.751,"body":"a podcast a long time ago with Ed"},{"startTime":1625.051,"endTime":1628.031,"body":"talking about an asynchronous standup."},{"startTime":1628.031,"endTime":1630.604,"body":"Right about like, Hey,"},{"startTime":1628.031,"endTime":1630.604,"body":"can this be effective?"},{"startTime":1630.604,"endTime":1634.954,"body":"And I was, I actually, I remember that"},{"startTime":1630.604,"endTime":1634.954,"body":"podcast because  I was on the other side"},{"startTime":1635.104,"endTime":1637.654,"body":"saying you shouldn't have asynchronous."},{"startTime":1637.804,"endTime":1640.864,"body":"Because it adds a burden to your team."},{"startTime":1641.164,"endTime":1644.284,"body":"But if you're gonna do this well,"},{"startTime":1641.164,"endTime":1644.284,"body":"and if I'm gonna argue against"},{"startTime":1644.284,"endTime":1648.514,"body":"Jamie Diamond here to say, Hey,"},{"startTime":1644.284,"endTime":1648.514,"body":"how do I do this asynchronously?"},{"startTime":1648.724,"endTime":1652.124,"body":"So it's as fast as a"},{"startTime":1648.724,"endTime":1652.124,"body":"synchronous conversation."},{"startTime":1652.434,"endTime":1656.304,"body":"We throw a message in the Slack"},{"startTime":1652.434,"endTime":1656.304,"body":"channel with all the decision makers"},{"startTime":1656.304,"endTime":1660.504,"body":"and say, Hey, we need this thing"},{"startTime":1656.304,"endTime":1660.504,"body":"decided, we need this thing done."},{"startTime":1660.709,"endTime":1664.344,"body":"And I'm not sure who can do it, but"},{"startTime":1660.709,"endTime":1664.344,"body":"when I throw it into this channel and"},{"startTime":1664.344,"endTime":1668.124,"body":"say, I need a thing done, the people"},{"startTime":1664.344,"endTime":1668.124,"body":"in the channel are the right people"},{"startTime":1668.124,"endTime":1669.654,"body":"to say, this is the right person."},{"startTime":1669.654,"endTime":1672.414,"body":"And then they can make the decision"},{"startTime":1669.654,"endTime":1672.414,"body":"there's something here about,"},{"startTime":1672.444,"endTime":1676.104,"body":"hey, in the office we can just"},{"startTime":1672.444,"endTime":1676.104,"body":"walk up to that person's desk."},{"startTime":1676.404,"endTime":1678.034,"body":"And ask them, right?"},{"startTime":1678.344,"endTime":1682.574,"body":"I also realize as I'm bringing this up,"},{"startTime":1678.344,"endTime":1682.574,"body":"like you're a company of 300,000 people."},{"startTime":1682.694,"endTime":1689.024,"body":"Unless 300,000 people are in one office"},{"startTime":1682.694,"endTime":1689.024,"body":"building, it's still not possible."},{"startTime":1689.024,"endTime":1691.094,"body":"even if they were, it would"},{"startTime":1689.024,"endTime":1691.094,"body":"take you half a day to get to"},{"startTime":1691.094,"endTime":1691.994,"body":"the other side of the building."},{"startTime":1691.994,"endTime":1694.244,"body":"Then you find that the person"},{"startTime":1691.994,"endTime":1694.244,"body":"you're looking for is gone to lunch."},{"startTime":1694.394,"endTime":1698.584,"body":"Listen, there are challenges no matter"},{"startTime":1694.394,"endTime":1698.584,"body":"what, in today's climate, we can throw"},{"startTime":1698.584,"endTime":1702.654,"body":"out the discussion possibility of having"},{"startTime":1698.584,"endTime":1702.654,"body":"300,000 people in a building, right?"},{"startTime":1702.654,"endTime":1703.374,"body":"It's not gonna happen."},{"startTime":1703.374,"endTime":1705.144,"body":"So what do we do instead?"},{"startTime":1705.414,"endTime":1708.594,"body":"We give people proper trust."},{"startTime":1708.594,"endTime":1711.804,"body":"We give them the direction, the"},{"startTime":1708.594,"endTime":1711.804,"body":"what and the why, and let them"},{"startTime":1711.804,"endTime":1713.544,"body":"figure out how to solve the problem."},{"startTime":1713.874,"endTime":1714.594,"body":"That's what we do."},{"startTime":1714.624,"endTime":1719.504,"body":"Now, if you wanna measure them by hours"},{"startTime":1714.624,"endTime":1719.504,"body":"spent at their desk, or keystrokes , are"},{"startTime":1719.504,"endTime":1720.974,"body":"you really measuring the right thing?"},{"startTime":1721.274,"endTime":1722.624,"body":"That's the question I would ask."},{"startTime":1722.954,"endTime":1724.154,"body":"Why are you measuring that?"},{"startTime":1724.354,"endTime":1727.594,"body":"It's a good way of measuring"},{"startTime":1724.354,"endTime":1727.594,"body":"the temperature of your"},{"startTime":1727.594,"endTime":1729.004,"body":"culture is what I'm saying."},{"startTime":1729.004,"endTime":1729.064,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":1729.304,"endTime":1733.624,"body":"So for the purpose of scoring this"},{"startTime":1729.304,"endTime":1733.624,"body":"category, if you can fit 300,000"},{"startTime":1733.629,"endTime":1736.054,"body":"people in your corporate office and"},{"startTime":1733.629,"endTime":1736.054,"body":"go to all their desks and have 'em"},{"startTime":1736.054,"endTime":1737.614,"body":"all working on one floor, great."},{"startTime":1737.734,"endTime":1740.949,"body":"You get a banana, you get"},{"startTime":1737.734,"endTime":1740.949,"body":"a whole basket of bananas."},{"startTime":1740.999,"endTime":1744.869,"body":"But because I know that it is not feasible"},{"startTime":1740.999,"endTime":1744.869,"body":"or reasonable, you get no bananas."},{"startTime":1745.049,"endTime":1746.309,"body":"So no bananas are given."},{"startTime":1746.459,"endTime":1751.789,"body":"But when you're Jamie Diamond,  if you're"},{"startTime":1746.459,"endTime":1751.789,"body":"saying that facilitation is strategic,"},{"startTime":1751.789,"endTime":1755.659,"body":"just like having a mortgage department"},{"startTime":1751.789,"endTime":1755.659,"body":"is strategic and there are things as"},{"startTime":1755.989,"endTime":1758.599,"body":"are, that are strategic in your business."},{"startTime":1758.899,"endTime":1759.469,"body":"If you're sing."},{"startTime":1759.769,"endTime":1764.209,"body":"Having good facilitation from"},{"startTime":1759.769,"endTime":1764.209,"body":"team to team is strategic."},{"startTime":1764.359,"endTime":1769.589,"body":"you can hire a person to help"},{"startTime":1764.359,"endTime":1769.589,"body":"Make these strategic conversations"},{"startTime":1769.709,"endTime":1771.599,"body":"happen from team to team."},{"startTime":1771.779,"endTime":1773.819,"body":"And that's at least"},{"startTime":1771.779,"endTime":1773.819,"body":"deserving of two bananas."},{"startTime":1773.889,"endTime":1777.364,"body":"if it's a banana thing, it, so far has"},{"startTime":1773.889,"endTime":1777.364,"body":"been, so we'll continue that scale."},{"startTime":1777.674,"endTime":1779.564,"body":"two bananas against Jamie Damon."},{"startTime":1779.774,"endTime":1780.584,"body":"Sorry, Jamie Damon."},{"startTime":1780.584,"endTime":1781.814,"body":"I'm doing my best here, man."},{"startTime":1781.864,"endTime":1782.914,"body":", you gotta stop cursing."},{"startTime":1782.914,"endTime":1785.164,"body":"It's hard to edit on the podcast."},{"startTime":1785.414,"endTime":1787.004,"body":"lead by example, basically."},{"startTime":1787.274,"endTime":1788.474,"body":"I mean, I'm not going that far."},{"startTime":1788.564,"endTime":1788.774,"body":"All right."},{"startTime":1788.774,"endTime":1789.374,"body":"let's go"},{"startTime":1789.424,"endTime":1792.964,"body":"Every area should be looking"},{"startTime":1789.424,"endTime":1792.964,"body":"to be 10% more efficient."},{"startTime":1793.084,"endTime":1797.044,"body":"If I was ready to park a hundred people,"},{"startTime":1793.084,"endTime":1797.044,"body":"I guarantee you if I wanted to, I could"},{"startTime":1797.044,"endTime":1798.844,"body":"run it with 90 and be more efficient."},{"startTime":1799.144,"endTime":1800.674,"body":"I guarantee you I could do it."},{"startTime":1800.914,"endTime":1801.994,"body":"I could do it in my sleep."},{"startTime":1802.624,"endTime":1805.864,"body":"And the notion, these"},{"startTime":1802.624,"endTime":1805.864,"body":"bureaucracies, I need more people."},{"startTime":1805.864,"endTime":1807.394,"body":"I can't get it done."},{"startTime":1807.514,"endTime":1810.304,"body":"No, because you're, you're filling that"},{"startTime":1807.514,"endTime":1810.304,"body":"request that don't need to be done."},{"startTime":1810.544,"endTime":1812.464,"body":"Your people are going to meetings,"},{"startTime":1810.544,"endTime":1812.464,"body":"they don't need to go to."},{"startTime":1812.764,"endTime":1815.764,"body":"Someone told me to approve something"},{"startTime":1812.764,"endTime":1815.764,"body":"as wealth management, that they"},{"startTime":1815.764,"endTime":1817.324,"body":"had to go to 14 committees."},{"startTime":1817.519,"endTime":1820.999,"body":"I am dying to get the name of"},{"startTime":1817.519,"endTime":1820.999,"body":"the 14 committees and I feel like"},{"startTime":1820.999,"endTime":1822.799,"body":"firing 14 chairman of committees."},{"startTime":1823.189,"endTime":1825.259,"body":"I can't stand it anymore."},{"startTime":1825.439,"endTime":1826.819,"body":"Now you have a choice."},{"startTime":1826.819,"endTime":1828.259,"body":"You don't have to work with JP Morgan."},{"startTime":1828.319,"endTime":1832.909,"body":"So the people of you who don't wanna work"},{"startTime":1828.319,"endTime":1832.909,"body":"with the company, that's fine with me."},{"startTime":1833.159,"endTime":1834.949,"body":"Alright, this was quite a rant."},{"startTime":1835.294,"endTime":1840.184,"body":"What he's focusing on has nothing to"},{"startTime":1835.294,"endTime":1840.184,"body":"do with remote versus non-REM remote."},{"startTime":1840.194,"endTime":1847.144,"body":"What he's focusing on is the bureaucracy"},{"startTime":1840.194,"endTime":1847.144,"body":"of running a giant company the"},{"startTime":1847.144,"endTime":1853.954,"body":"bureaucracy enables bureaucracy for the"},{"startTime":1847.144,"endTime":1853.954,"body":"sake of bureaucracy like he's saying"},{"startTime":1853.954,"endTime":1855.364,"body":"why can't you just make a decision?"},{"startTime":1855.364,"endTime":1856.654,"body":"Why you gotta go through committee?"},{"startTime":1856.814,"endTime":1860.444,"body":"I have no idea, like in his world"},{"startTime":1856.814,"endTime":1860.444,"body":"what wealth management means, but"},{"startTime":1860.444,"endTime":1862.514,"body":"he's just 14 committees or whatever."},{"startTime":1862.564,"endTime":1863.644,"body":"I don't know if that's an exaggeration."},{"startTime":1864.384,"endTime":1868.564,"body":"I could understand what he's saying"},{"startTime":1864.384,"endTime":1868.564,"body":"of why can't these people just"},{"startTime":1868.564,"endTime":1870.424,"body":"make a decision and run with it?"},{"startTime":1870.574,"endTime":1875.694,"body":"The fact that you have a bureaucracy where"},{"startTime":1870.574,"endTime":1875.694,"body":"the decisions are not pushed down to the"},{"startTime":1875.694,"endTime":1881.004,"body":"lowest level, to the people doing the work"},{"startTime":1875.694,"endTime":1881.004,"body":"to make the decision, and then the results"},{"startTime":1881.004,"endTime":1883.224,"body":"of the decision are pushed back up."},{"startTime":1883.374,"endTime":1884.334,"body":"that's not the culture."},{"startTime":1884.334,"endTime":1888.594,"body":"The culture is  everyone's afraid"},{"startTime":1884.334,"endTime":1888.594,"body":"of being pointed at to be the"},{"startTime":1888.594,"endTime":1890.004,"body":"person that made the decision."},{"startTime":1890.184,"endTime":1891.864,"body":"So they keep deferring."},{"startTime":1892.014,"endTime":1893.274,"body":"that's kind of what he's pointing out."},{"startTime":1893.274,"endTime":1894.354,"body":"So there's safety numbers."},{"startTime":1894.354,"endTime":1897.234,"body":"So the, the people are making"},{"startTime":1894.354,"endTime":1897.234,"body":"decisions by committee."},{"startTime":1897.234,"endTime":1901.344,"body":"That way when Jamie perks up and"},{"startTime":1897.234,"endTime":1901.344,"body":"says, who made this decision?"},{"startTime":1901.374,"endTime":1903.144,"body":"The answer isn't Fred or Mary."},{"startTime":1903.144,"endTime":1905.214,"body":"The answer is it's ex committee."},{"startTime":1905.304,"endTime":1905.484,"body":"Right?"},{"startTime":1905.484,"endTime":1906.204,"body":"Yeah this group."},{"startTime":1906.204,"endTime":1906.864,"body":"that's why."},{"startTime":1906.964,"endTime":1910.344,"body":"listen, it is not surprising"},{"startTime":1906.964,"endTime":1910.344,"body":"that that's happening because the"},{"startTime":1910.344,"endTime":1912.834,"body":"culture is not one where trust is."},{"startTime":1913.314,"endTime":1917.134,"body":"Prevalent primarily it's basically"},{"startTime":1913.314,"endTime":1917.134,"body":"threat, he says that in that clip."},{"startTime":1917.314,"endTime":1920.144,"body":"If you don't wanna work here, I'm fine"},{"startTime":1917.314,"endTime":1920.144,"body":"with that you gotta lose good people."},{"startTime":1920.144,"endTime":1921.434,"body":"First of all, if you keep this up."},{"startTime":1921.434,"endTime":1922.784,"body":"there are some culture problems."},{"startTime":1922.884,"endTime":1926.544,"body":"But I would like to throw out there's"},{"startTime":1922.884,"endTime":1926.544,"body":"something we do to say, to help"},{"startTime":1926.544,"endTime":1929.124,"body":"Jamie Diamond that I, that's what"},{"startTime":1926.544,"endTime":1929.124,"body":"we're doing on the podcast now."},{"startTime":1929.124,"endTime":1932.874,"body":"We're helping Jamie Dimon like"},{"startTime":1929.124,"endTime":1932.874,"body":"management by walking around"},{"startTime":1933.179,"endTime":1936.139,"body":"the old gemba walk in this case."},{"startTime":1936.259,"endTime":1939.259,"body":"If you're doing the gemba,"},{"startTime":1936.259,"endTime":1939.259,"body":"does this category go away?"},{"startTime":1939.339,"endTime":1944.239,"body":"or is there just a level of , there's"},{"startTime":1939.339,"endTime":1944.239,"body":"just too many people at the company"},{"startTime":1944.599,"endTime":1946.989,"body":"where the gemba doesn't cut it"},{"startTime":1944.599,"endTime":1946.989,"body":"where are we at at this point?"},{"startTime":1946.989,"endTime":1950.379,"body":"Like, I, I like, I, I admittedly"},{"startTime":1946.989,"endTime":1950.379,"body":"like I'm outta my depth here"},{"startTime":1950.379,"endTime":1953.349,"body":"'cause like 300,000 people."},{"startTime":1953.439,"endTime":1956.829,"body":"I just don't know how you even"},{"startTime":1953.439,"endTime":1956.829,"body":"conduct business at that point."},{"startTime":1957.154,"endTime":1959.854,"body":"it's a big number, but then"},{"startTime":1957.154,"endTime":1959.854,"body":"again, you could ask the question,"},{"startTime":1959.854,"endTime":1961.024,"body":"What is the right number?"},{"startTime":1961.084,"endTime":1961.984,"body":"Well, you don't know."},{"startTime":1962.254,"endTime":1964.814,"body":"So gemba is a beginning of,"},{"startTime":1962.254,"endTime":1964.814,"body":"of this whole thing, right?"},{"startTime":1964.814,"endTime":1969.134,"body":"It just observe, see what's going"},{"startTime":1964.814,"endTime":1969.134,"body":"on, and then try and trim down"},{"startTime":1969.134,"endTime":1973.194,"body":"and make more, efficient, but more"},{"startTime":1969.134,"endTime":1973.194,"body":"effective, in my words, right?"},{"startTime":1973.494,"endTime":1975.114,"body":"Every part of the business."},{"startTime":1975.364,"endTime":1979.174,"body":"you may want to take that approach instead"},{"startTime":1975.364,"endTime":1979.174,"body":"of saying, well if for every hundred I'm"},{"startTime":1979.174,"endTime":1981.094,"body":"gonna cut out 10 people and I'll be fine."},{"startTime":1981.494,"endTime":1983.624,"body":"You'll be fine, but you're"},{"startTime":1981.494,"endTime":1983.624,"body":"gonna lose good people."},{"startTime":1983.624,"endTime":1987.104,"body":"If 'cause the 90 that I left May"},{"startTime":1983.624,"endTime":1987.104,"body":"well be already overburdened."},{"startTime":1987.104,"endTime":1987.914,"body":"You don't know that."},{"startTime":1987.914,"endTime":1990.324,"body":"Well, again, I'm, I'm arguing"},{"startTime":1987.914,"endTime":1990.324,"body":"on the side of Jamie Damon."},{"startTime":1990.324,"endTime":1990.564,"body":"Sure."},{"startTime":1990.894,"endTime":1994.434,"body":"From his perspective, he's got these"},{"startTime":1990.894,"endTime":1994.434,"body":"decisions that are being pushed up to"},{"startTime":1994.434,"endTime":1999.369,"body":"him or deferred it seems to him, the"},{"startTime":1994.434,"endTime":1999.369,"body":"folks in charge of these segments of"},{"startTime":1999.369,"endTime":2001.589,"body":"the business can't make decisions."},{"startTime":2001.819,"endTime":2003.469,"body":"what I'm getting out of this is."},{"startTime":2003.769,"endTime":2008.934,"body":"You are trying to absolve yourself of"},{"startTime":2003.769,"endTime":2008.934,"body":"the, accountability Of making a decision."},{"startTime":2009.034,"endTime":2012.284,"body":"the reason that you're sitting"},{"startTime":2009.034,"endTime":2012.284,"body":"in that seat is  you are"},{"startTime":2012.284,"endTime":2013.844,"body":"accountable to make the decisions."},{"startTime":2014.094,"endTime":2018.804,"body":"I've promoted you to be in that spot, that"},{"startTime":2014.094,"endTime":2018.804,"body":"director spot, or VP spot, whatever it is."},{"startTime":2018.884,"endTime":2019.984,"body":"To talk to your people."},{"startTime":2020.434,"endTime":2023.674,"body":"Take the best evidence you have at"},{"startTime":2020.434,"endTime":2023.674,"body":"the time, and make the decision."},{"startTime":2023.794,"endTime":2027.304,"body":"I'm the product manager on the podcast for"},{"startTime":2023.794,"endTime":2027.304,"body":"people who don't listen to the podcast."},{"startTime":2027.304,"endTime":2027.544,"body":"Right."},{"startTime":2027.844,"endTime":2032.984,"body":"I wanna know  oh, we made the decision to"},{"startTime":2027.844,"endTime":2032.984,"body":"work on Project X over project Y. Okay."},{"startTime":2032.984,"endTime":2035.474,"body":"what decisions Have you"},{"startTime":2032.984,"endTime":2035.474,"body":"pushed off the table?"},{"startTime":2035.624,"endTime":2038.284,"body":"to do Project X. The"},{"startTime":2035.624,"endTime":2038.284,"body":"opportunity cost let me know."},{"startTime":2038.334,"endTime":2042.774,"body":"It's X versus y. it could be a quick"},{"startTime":2038.334,"endTime":2042.774,"body":"recap in our staff meeting a high"},{"startTime":2042.774,"endTime":2046.494,"body":"level CEO meeting or a quarterly"},{"startTime":2042.774,"endTime":2046.494,"body":"roadmap meeting Hey, we decided to"},{"startTime":2046.494,"endTime":2048.984,"body":"prioritize X over Y and here's y Yeah."},{"startTime":2048.989,"endTime":2049.704,"body":"Real, real quick."},{"startTime":2049.704,"endTime":2053.184,"body":"And, and, and here's what, here's the"},{"startTime":2049.704,"endTime":2053.184,"body":"evidence that led us to believe that."},{"startTime":2053.244,"endTime":2057.224,"body":"And then if I am the CEO,  like Jamie"},{"startTime":2053.244,"endTime":2057.224,"body":"Diamond couldn't empower a bunch of people"},{"startTime":2057.314,"endTime":2062.624,"body":"who have direct budgets to go to the"},{"startTime":2057.314,"endTime":2062.624,"body":"individual quarterly road mapping, right?"},{"startTime":2062.624,"endTime":2064.094,"body":"And be like, oh, I'm gonna fund this."},{"startTime":2064.094,"endTime":2067.174,"body":"Not that,  it's real easy to take"},{"startTime":2064.094,"endTime":2067.174,"body":"control of this stuff when you're"},{"startTime":2067.174,"endTime":2073.204,"body":"controlled money and to say tell me"},{"startTime":2067.174,"endTime":2073.204,"body":"your evidence of YX over Y and then"},{"startTime":2073.304,"endTime":2074.804,"body":"if it didn't sound strong enough."},{"startTime":2075.104,"endTime":2079.664,"body":"Then I with control the purse strings,"},{"startTime":2075.104,"endTime":2079.664,"body":"I'm gonna challenge it in that meeting and"},{"startTime":2079.664,"endTime":2084.344,"body":"if I decide to proceed regardless, then"},{"startTime":2079.664,"endTime":2084.344,"body":"we need to have a separate conversation."},{"startTime":2084.404,"endTime":2087.584,"body":"And then some of this comes into"},{"startTime":2084.404,"endTime":2087.584,"body":"play, that's the product manager"},{"startTime":2087.584,"endTime":2089.084,"body":"and me has those blinders on."},{"startTime":2089.094,"endTime":2090.744,"body":"I already collected the evidence."},{"startTime":2091.204,"endTime":2093.484,"body":"I feel where he's coming from."},{"startTime":2093.724,"endTime":2099.164,"body":"He has a culture that is, not bringing"},{"startTime":2093.724,"endTime":2099.164,"body":"all these things to the table and"},{"startTime":2099.164,"endTime":2100.904,"body":"talking equally amongst each other."},{"startTime":2101.184,"endTime":2104.844,"body":"there's some sort of dysfunction here"},{"startTime":2101.184,"endTime":2104.844,"body":"that he's really railing against."},{"startTime":2105.084,"endTime":2107.854,"body":"The culture really speaks"},{"startTime":2105.084,"endTime":2107.854,"body":"to me of being risk averse."},{"startTime":2108.304,"endTime":2110.374,"body":"And there's probably a reason behind that."},{"startTime":2110.494,"endTime":2113.374,"body":"We don't know what that is 'cause"},{"startTime":2110.494,"endTime":2113.374,"body":"I don't know the company in inner"},{"startTime":2113.374,"endTime":2115.054,"body":"workings But to your point, yeah."},{"startTime":2115.104,"endTime":2117.894,"body":"evidence-based decision making"},{"startTime":2115.104,"endTime":2117.894,"body":"and being empowered to make"},{"startTime":2117.894,"endTime":2119.824,"body":"it, is the right approach here."},{"startTime":2119.824,"endTime":2120.004,"body":"Right."},{"startTime":2120.029,"endTime":2122.759,"body":"And in real life, I don't even"},{"startTime":2120.029,"endTime":2122.759,"body":"know if some of these other"},{"startTime":2122.879,"endTime":2124.829,"body":"directors, VPs will even go to him."},{"startTime":2125.009,"endTime":2125.159,"body":"Right."},{"startTime":2125.159,"endTime":2129.989,"body":"They would probably go to their VP of"},{"startTime":2125.159,"endTime":2129.989,"body":"Finance or  CFO and say here are the bets."},{"startTime":2130.169,"endTime":2132.389,"body":"This is the one we would"},{"startTime":2130.169,"endTime":2132.389,"body":"like to make, here's why."},{"startTime":2132.719,"endTime":2136.759,"body":"And whatever that person says is"},{"startTime":2132.719,"endTime":2136.759,"body":"the right decision I wanna hope"},{"startTime":2137.059,"endTime":2140.029,"body":"that they take evidence into"},{"startTime":2137.059,"endTime":2140.029,"body":"account, but hope is not a strategy."},{"startTime":2140.029,"endTime":2142.309,"body":"Gathering evidence and"},{"startTime":2140.029,"endTime":2142.309,"body":"actually doing your job."},{"startTime":2142.604,"endTime":2146.594,"body":"as a product manager doing your"},{"startTime":2142.604,"endTime":2146.594,"body":"job and being unburdened from being"},{"startTime":2146.594,"endTime":2149.684,"body":"brow beaten to make the quote Right."},{"startTime":2149.774,"endTime":2153.814,"body":"Update You know, the update that makes"},{"startTime":2149.774,"endTime":2153.814,"body":"your manager happy versus the real update"},{"startTime":2153.924,"endTime":2158.514,"body":", are we gonna bankrupt our company by"},{"startTime":2153.924,"endTime":2158.514,"body":"making people feel better about decisions"},{"startTime":2158.514,"endTime":2160.434,"body":"sometimes it's not even the decision."},{"startTime":2160.614,"endTime":2165.764,"body":"Sometimes my manager thinks this is"},{"startTime":2160.614,"endTime":2165.764,"body":"the way to go decision X is better than"},{"startTime":2165.764,"endTime":2171.224,"body":"decision y. So I'm just gonna  not go"},{"startTime":2165.764,"endTime":2171.224,"body":"down avenue y as much as I could have gone"},{"startTime":2171.224,"endTime":2175.694,"body":"down Avenue X. I deal with that all the"},{"startTime":2171.224,"endTime":2175.694,"body":"time in product management I don't often"},{"startTime":2175.694,"endTime":2178.154,"body":"talk about my current work on the podcast."},{"startTime":2178.344,"endTime":2182.724,"body":"One of the current week's meetings with"},{"startTime":2178.344,"endTime":2182.724,"body":"all the product managers in the business."},{"startTime":2182.844,"endTime":2187.764,"body":"I went against the director of product"},{"startTime":2182.844,"endTime":2187.764,"body":"management and it was, it was one of"},{"startTime":2187.764,"endTime":2192.494,"body":"those things where I was talking and the"},{"startTime":2187.764,"endTime":2192.494,"body":"director was asking why I was challenging."},{"startTime":2192.809,"endTime":2196.439,"body":"The current status quo, and none of"},{"startTime":2192.809,"endTime":2196.439,"body":"the other product managers on the"},{"startTime":2196.439,"endTime":2199.889,"body":"call were saying anything like, it was"},{"startTime":2196.439,"endTime":2199.889,"body":"one of those uncomfortable meeting."},{"startTime":2199.894,"endTime":2200.794,"body":"They probably went to make popcorn."},{"startTime":2200.849,"endTime":2204.179,"body":"They didn't want to say any,"},{"startTime":2200.849,"endTime":2204.179,"body":"they didn't want to say anything,"},{"startTime":2204.179,"endTime":2205.789,"body":"because it was so uncomfortable."},{"startTime":2205.939,"endTime":2210.629,"body":"But again, I'm at a senior level in"},{"startTime":2205.939,"endTime":2210.629,"body":"product management  I can bring up, like"},{"startTime":2210.929,"endTime":2215.969,"body":"this thing doesn't seem to work and you"},{"startTime":2210.929,"endTime":2215.969,"body":"guys seem to be all on board with it."},{"startTime":2216.269,"endTime":2221.079,"body":"Let's stop for a second and talk about"},{"startTime":2216.269,"endTime":2221.079,"body":"is this a long-term play or is this"},{"startTime":2221.079,"endTime":2224.319,"body":"like a current, thing we love this"},{"startTime":2221.079,"endTime":2224.319,"body":"week and next week is gonna be gone"},{"startTime":2224.589,"endTime":2227.429,"body":"and dig into it, a lot of people"},{"startTime":2224.589,"endTime":2227.429,"body":"are not comfortable in the"},{"startTime":2227.429,"endTime":2228.959,"body":"middle of that conversation."},{"startTime":2229.229,"endTime":2232.759,"body":"After the conversation is over and"},{"startTime":2229.229,"endTime":2232.759,"body":"we all agree this is the evidence"},{"startTime":2232.759,"endTime":2236.779,"body":"we need to go offline and bring"},{"startTime":2232.759,"endTime":2236.779,"body":"back to advance the conversation."},{"startTime":2237.079,"endTime":2241.454,"body":"They're okay having that part of the"},{"startTime":2237.079,"endTime":2241.454,"body":"conversation the post gathering evidence,"},{"startTime":2241.634,"endTime":2246.524,"body":"but they're not okay with the, let me"},{"startTime":2241.634,"endTime":2246.524,"body":"challenge what you think is the top"},{"startTime":2246.524,"endTime":2252.954,"body":"priority and let me present an alternate"},{"startTime":2246.524,"endTime":2252.954,"body":"and let me kind of lobby for, we should"},{"startTime":2252.954,"endTime":2257.614,"body":"go gather evidence over here or over"},{"startTime":2252.954,"endTime":2257.614,"body":"there a lot of people are not Okay."},{"startTime":2257.884,"endTime":2260.374,"body":"Getting through that initial disagreement."},{"startTime":2260.534,"endTime":2260.714,"body":"' , because."},{"startTime":2260.764,"endTime":2263.014,"body":"Going back to arguing Agile 1 98."},{"startTime":2263.389,"endTime":2264.709,"body":"Of crucial conversations."},{"startTime":2264.809,"endTime":2267.089,"body":"a lot of people don't know how"},{"startTime":2264.809,"endTime":2267.089,"body":"to bring that conversation up"},{"startTime":2267.089,"endTime":2269.129,"body":"without damaging the relationship."},{"startTime":2269.429,"endTime":2270.149,"body":"You're absolutely right."},{"startTime":2270.149,"endTime":2272.189,"body":"They wanna protect that"},{"startTime":2270.149,"endTime":2272.189,"body":"relationship equity."},{"startTime":2272.219,"endTime":2273.299,"body":"I, I understand that."},{"startTime":2273.609,"endTime":2275.044,"body":"It, it is very common actually."},{"startTime":2275.044,"endTime":2277.804,"body":"I my line of work, it's the same"},{"startTime":2275.044,"endTime":2277.804,"body":"thing, people just simply nod up"},{"startTime":2277.804,"endTime":2281.524,"body":"and down and then after the meeting"},{"startTime":2277.804,"endTime":2281.524,"body":"they'll go, why are we doing this?"},{"startTime":2281.524,"endTime":2286.639,"body":"What is, yeah I, I, I think your"},{"startTime":2281.524,"endTime":2286.639,"body":"line of work, like the organizational"},{"startTime":2286.699,"endTime":2292.879,"body":"design and arranging relationships"},{"startTime":2286.699,"endTime":2292.879,"body":"to, to better work organizationally,"},{"startTime":2293.179,"endTime":2295.969,"body":"I think that's a more difficult"},{"startTime":2293.179,"endTime":2295.969,"body":"conversation than product management."},{"startTime":2296.019,"endTime":2299.289,"body":"Product management is like, I,"},{"startTime":2296.019,"endTime":2299.289,"body":"can run an A to B test and get"},{"startTime":2299.289,"endTime":2300.759,"body":"immediately the answer I need."},{"startTime":2301.059,"endTime":2305.439,"body":"In the, in the, how do we arrange"},{"startTime":2301.059,"endTime":2305.439,"body":"an organized teams conversation?"},{"startTime":2305.469,"endTime":2310.139,"body":"That's a much more difficult it's harder"},{"startTime":2305.469,"endTime":2310.139,"body":"to get evidence in that conversation,"},{"startTime":2310.289,"endTime":2311.609,"body":"which it's long term basically."},{"startTime":2311.609,"endTime":2311.879,"body":"Right?"},{"startTime":2311.879,"endTime":2314.639,"body":"You've gotta do lots of plays"},{"startTime":2311.879,"endTime":2314.639,"body":"and get evidence long term."},{"startTime":2314.699,"endTime":2314.939,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":2315.159,"endTime":2315.399,"body":"okay."},{"startTime":2315.399,"endTime":2319.569,"body":"Well so I've awarded one banana for"},{"startTime":2315.399,"endTime":2319.569,"body":"hoping that we can get better and three"},{"startTime":2319.569,"endTime":2321.439,"body":"bananas for actually getting better."},{"startTime":2321.439,"endTime":2322.609,"body":"So there we go."},{"startTime":2322.799,"endTime":2323.519,"body":"let's move on."},{"startTime":2323.519,"endTime":2327.359,"body":"let's finish this and then we'll go"},{"startTime":2323.519,"endTime":2327.359,"body":"to our last point and move to closing."},{"startTime":2327.509,"endTime":2328.859,"body":"I'm not, I'm not mad at you."},{"startTime":2329.159,"endTime":2329.999,"body":"Don't be mad at me."},{"startTime":2329.999,"endTime":2331.079,"body":"It's a free country."},{"startTime":2331.379,"endTime":2331.709,"body":"Sorry."},{"startTime":2331.899,"endTime":2333.039,"body":"I'm not mad at you."},{"startTime":2333.039,"endTime":2333.339,"body":"I'm."},{"startTime":2333.639,"endTime":2335.529,"body":"Do you have psychological safety"},{"startTime":2336.079,"endTime":2337.454,"body":"I'm not yelling is how I talk."},{"startTime":2337.604,"endTime":2338.384,"body":"I wasn't ready for that."},{"startTime":2338.384,"endTime":2341.874,"body":"You can walk with your feet but"},{"startTime":2338.384,"endTime":2341.874,"body":"this company's gonna set our own"},{"startTime":2341.874,"endTime":2343.554,"body":"standards and do it our own way."},{"startTime":2343.834,"endTime":2347.254,"body":"I've had it with this kind of stuff"},{"startTime":2343.834,"endTime":2347.254,"body":"and you know, I, I come in I've been"},{"startTime":2347.254,"endTime":2351.089,"body":"working seven days of  weeks since"},{"startTime":2347.254,"endTime":2351.089,"body":"Covid, and I come in and I, where's"},{"startTime":2351.089,"endTime":2354.869,"body":"everybody else, whether they here and"},{"startTime":2351.089,"endTime":2354.869,"body":"there and Zoom and the Zoom don't show"},{"startTime":2354.869,"endTime":2356.579,"body":"up and people say they need guest up."},{"startTime":2356.629,"endTime":2358.009,"body":"that's not how you run a great company."},{"startTime":2358.219,"endTime":2362.479,"body":"We didn't build this great company"},{"startTime":2358.219,"endTime":2362.479,"body":"by doing that, by doing the same semi"},{"startTime":2362.479,"endTime":2364.385,"body":"disease  that everybody else does."},{"startTime":2364.535,"endTime":2366.455,"body":"His ending to this is kind of clunky."},{"startTime":2366.485,"endTime":2370.585,"body":"Okay I wanna try to correct"},{"startTime":2366.485,"endTime":2370.585,"body":"his ending to this a little bit"},{"startTime":2370.585,"endTime":2371.725,"body":"before we start debating it."},{"startTime":2371.725,"endTime":2371.935,"body":"Sure."},{"startTime":2372.085,"endTime":2376.915,"body":"the bureaucracy that has evolved"},{"startTime":2372.085,"endTime":2376.915,"body":"and has slowed things down has sort"},{"startTime":2376.915,"endTime":2379.315,"body":"of evolved from leadership choices."},{"startTime":2379.315,"endTime":2379.615,"body":"Okay."},{"startTime":2379.895,"endTime":2383.515,"body":"and he's pointing out like, we should"},{"startTime":2379.895,"endTime":2383.515,"body":"have  some kind of trigger to help us"},{"startTime":2383.575,"endTime":2388.575,"body":"adjust  and correct the bureaucracy"},{"startTime":2383.575,"endTime":2388.575,"body":"to make things more streamlined."},{"startTime":2388.735,"endTime":2390.385,"body":"I don't know what that"},{"startTime":2388.735,"endTime":2390.385,"body":"mechanism looks like."},{"startTime":2390.385,"endTime":2393.075,"body":"we can work on that if I was"},{"startTime":2390.385,"endTime":2393.075,"body":"Jamie Diamond, I'd hire some"},{"startTime":2393.075,"endTime":2398.075,"body":"consultants or coaches to help me"},{"startTime":2393.075,"endTime":2398.075,"body":"streamline my bureaucracy to the top"},{"startTime":2398.125,"endTime":2401.275,"body":"Basically my goal setting"},{"startTime":2398.125,"endTime":2401.275,"body":"apparatus from the top."},{"startTime":2401.305,"endTime":2405.055,"body":"Also I feel he's trying to say  some"},{"startTime":2401.305,"endTime":2405.055,"body":"parts of our company are doing it right."},{"startTime":2405.355,"endTime":2406.795,"body":"A lot of our company's doing it."},{"startTime":2407.14,"endTime":2413.48,"body":"Wrong, the whole backbiting firing off"},{"startTime":2407.14,"endTime":2413.48,"body":"dms at people being rude over email or not"},{"startTime":2413.48,"endTime":2415.28,"body":"showing up on time, that kind of thing."},{"startTime":2415.56,"endTime":2419.01,"body":"if Jamie Diamond was here in the"},{"startTime":2415.56,"endTime":2419.01,"body":"studio with us and is like, Hey"},{"startTime":2419.01,"endTime":2422.91,"body":"listen, I'll do whatever, 'cause I'm"},{"startTime":2419.01,"endTime":2422.91,"body":"the CEO, what are some things I can"},{"startTime":2422.91,"endTime":2425.07,"body":"do and immediately fix my culture?"},{"startTime":2425.07,"endTime":2428.6,"body":"obviously your bureaucracy and the things"},{"startTime":2425.07,"endTime":2428.6,"body":"we talked about in the previous segments,"},{"startTime":2428.73,"endTime":2430.44,"body":"stem from your leadership choices."},{"startTime":2430.59,"endTime":2434.16,"body":"So when he is like, oh, I can just"},{"startTime":2430.59,"endTime":2434.16,"body":"get rid of these 14 chairman or"},{"startTime":2434.16,"endTime":2438.41,"body":"whatever okay, cool, you should"},{"startTime":2434.16,"endTime":2438.41,"body":"get rid of those 14 chairman and"},{"startTime":2438.41,"endTime":2440.09,"body":"you should get chairman in that."},{"startTime":2440.09,"endTime":2444.31,"body":"Understand the point of being a"},{"startTime":2440.09,"endTime":2444.31,"body":"chairman is to bubble up to the CEO"},{"startTime":2444.31,"endTime":2446.5,"body":"these are the decisions that we made."},{"startTime":2446.8,"endTime":2449.77,"body":"This is the information"},{"startTime":2446.8,"endTime":2449.77,"body":"we had while we made them."},{"startTime":2449.8,"endTime":2454.09,"body":"And these are the things that we"},{"startTime":2449.8,"endTime":2454.09,"body":"traded off to make those decisions."},{"startTime":2454.14,"endTime":2458.68,"body":"You need better communication, but"},{"startTime":2454.14,"endTime":2458.68,"body":"if those people are so overloaded"},{"startTime":2458.68,"endTime":2464.19,"body":"that you can't get that from them,"},{"startTime":2458.68,"endTime":2464.19,"body":"you need a trained facilitator that"},{"startTime":2464.19,"endTime":2469.65,"body":"goes with each of those people to"},{"startTime":2464.19,"endTime":2469.65,"body":"help your bureaucracy as it grows."},{"startTime":2469.85,"endTime":2474.65,"body":"And you need to consider that"},{"startTime":2469.85,"endTime":2474.65,"body":"strategic in the same way."},{"startTime":2475.11,"endTime":2478.11,"body":"The last podcast we talked about"},{"startTime":2475.11,"endTime":2478.11,"body":"this is like, what does it mean"},{"startTime":2478.11,"endTime":2480.84,"body":"by, I consider it strategic."},{"startTime":2481.21,"endTime":2483.82,"body":"I consider it strategic means."},{"startTime":2484.12,"endTime":2487.06,"body":"There's no ROI on this thing."},{"startTime":2487.33,"endTime":2492.88,"body":"It is top priority and I'm willing to"},{"startTime":2487.33,"endTime":2492.88,"body":"pay anything to have it done, meaning."},{"startTime":2493.34,"endTime":2498.32,"body":"I consider it strategic to have"},{"startTime":2493.34,"endTime":2498.32,"body":"excellent communication when"},{"startTime":2498.32,"endTime":2500.9,"body":"it comes To my leadership team."},{"startTime":2501.02,"endTime":2505.5,"body":"If you're not willing to do that,"},{"startTime":2501.02,"endTime":2505.5,"body":"you've deprioritized that channel,"},{"startTime":2505.5,"endTime":2508.59,"body":"and now we're questioning your"},{"startTime":2505.5,"endTime":2508.59,"body":"motives I'm questioning my life."},{"startTime":2508.62,"endTime":2509.55,"body":"what am I even doing here?"},{"startTime":2509.55,"endTime":2513.69,"body":"so I absolutely agree with what"},{"startTime":2509.55,"endTime":2513.69,"body":"you just said about considering"},{"startTime":2513.69,"endTime":2515.82,"body":"these as strategic, right?"},{"startTime":2515.82,"endTime":2516.45,"body":"First of all."},{"startTime":2516.82,"endTime":2520.54,"body":"it's a deliberate decision, To say"},{"startTime":2516.82,"endTime":2520.54,"body":"this is important enough for us to"},{"startTime":2520.54,"endTime":2524.96,"body":"work on right now if we don't have the"},{"startTime":2520.54,"endTime":2524.96,"body":"expertise in house, we're going to get."},{"startTime":2525.395,"endTime":2528.575,"body":"Expertise from outside to"},{"startTime":2525.395,"endTime":2528.575,"body":"help us and train our people."},{"startTime":2528.845,"endTime":2532.715,"body":"but to his point about the"},{"startTime":2528.845,"endTime":2532.715,"body":"decision latency, right?"},{"startTime":2532.985,"endTime":2537.065,"body":"Committed decisions,  can be worked"},{"startTime":2532.985,"endTime":2537.065,"body":"on by changing the culture and"},{"startTime":2537.065,"endTime":2539.625,"body":"that begins at the top, with him."},{"startTime":2539.825,"endTime":2543.185,"body":"start to foster trust among"},{"startTime":2539.825,"endTime":2543.185,"body":"your leadership team so they're"},{"startTime":2543.185,"endTime":2545.075,"body":"not afraid of making decisions."},{"startTime":2545.415,"endTime":2548.325,"body":"then go in there with the"},{"startTime":2545.415,"endTime":2548.325,"body":"stuff you talked about,"},{"startTime":2548.595,"endTime":2549.795,"body":"Facilitation skills."},{"startTime":2549.855,"endTime":2554.295,"body":"Make sure the people can make"},{"startTime":2549.855,"endTime":2554.295,"body":"those decisions without fear"},{"startTime":2554.625,"endTime":2559.345,"body":"repercussions, as long as they are"},{"startTime":2554.625,"endTime":2559.345,"body":"data-driven, evidence-based,  if you"},{"startTime":2559.345,"endTime":2563.265,"body":"do that, I think you'll find that,"},{"startTime":2559.345,"endTime":2563.265,"body":"things will be a whole lot better."},{"startTime":2563.605,"endTime":2566.905,"body":"Instead of just saying things"},{"startTime":2563.605,"endTime":2566.905,"body":"like, I can get by with 90 people"},{"startTime":2566.905,"endTime":2568.815,"body":"instead of a hundred, because"},{"startTime":2566.905,"endTime":2568.815,"body":"you don't know that, right?"},{"startTime":2568.825,"endTime":2572.005,"body":"Again, I'm on Jamie Damon's"},{"startTime":2568.825,"endTime":2572.005,"body":"side in this conversation."},{"startTime":2572.085,"endTime":2576.165,"body":"You have to set up the culture"},{"startTime":2572.085,"endTime":2576.165,"body":"that you want to live in, okay?"},{"startTime":2576.205,"endTime":2578.845,"body":"You have to build the house"},{"startTime":2576.205,"endTime":2578.845,"body":"that you wanna live in."},{"startTime":2578.975,"endTime":2583.055,"body":"You have to go and cut the palm fronds and"},{"startTime":2578.975,"endTime":2583.055,"body":"put them on the roof to keep the rain out."},{"startTime":2583.105,"endTime":2584.125,"body":"that's your job."},{"startTime":2584.405,"endTime":2588.335,"body":"the minute you start blaming other people"},{"startTime":2584.405,"endTime":2588.335,"body":"for like, oh, my roof leaks on me, if"},{"startTime":2588.335,"endTime":2592.775,"body":"only these other people ,  you immediately"},{"startTime":2588.335,"endTime":2592.775,"body":"like re like I ceede all bananas."},{"startTime":2592.775,"endTime":2594.425,"body":"All, all three bananas."},{"startTime":2594.425,"endTime":2595.565,"body":"That's like three bananas."},{"startTime":2595.565,"endTime":2595.925,"body":"That's right."},{"startTime":2596.225,"endTime":2598.625,"body":"I, I only had one written down,"},{"startTime":2596.225,"endTime":2598.625,"body":"but I'm gonna write three down."},{"startTime":2598.895,"endTime":2601.865,"body":"I ceede all three of my bananas"},{"startTime":2598.895,"endTime":2601.865,"body":"to everyone else when I start"},{"startTime":2601.865,"endTime":2603.035,"body":"blaming other people like this."},{"startTime":2603.395,"endTime":2606.695,"body":"When you are the leader, when you are the"},{"startTime":2603.395,"endTime":2606.695,"body":"number one person in the organization,"},{"startTime":2606.995,"endTime":2608.195,"body":"you don't get to blame anybody."},{"startTime":2608.41,"endTime":2611.89,"body":"There's a future podcast on , the book"},{"startTime":2608.41,"endTime":2611.89,"body":"Extreme Ownership that I want to do."},{"startTime":2611.99,"endTime":2614.24,"body":"That talks about this specific thing."},{"startTime":2614.42,"endTime":2618.92,"body":"You don't get to say, oh no, all"},{"startTime":2614.42,"endTime":2618.92,"body":"these people are Zoomers or or,"},{"startTime":2618.92,"endTime":2620.24,"body":"oh, it's because of the pandemic."},{"startTime":2620.44,"endTime":2622.66,"body":"all these people are taking"},{"startTime":2620.44,"endTime":2622.66,"body":"their direction from you."},{"startTime":2623.155,"endTime":2625.465,"body":"The number one person at the top."},{"startTime":2625.855,"endTime":2630.455,"body":"So what are you gonna do to move"},{"startTime":2625.855,"endTime":2630.455,"body":"the culture ahead , like ranting and"},{"startTime":2630.455,"endTime":2634.085,"body":"cursing at some random manager in"},{"startTime":2630.455,"endTime":2634.085,"body":"your organization on a Tuesday , did"},{"startTime":2634.085,"endTime":2636.785,"body":"you go to happy hour at lunch and"},{"startTime":2634.085,"endTime":2636.785,"body":"come back and then hold the company?"},{"startTime":2636.785,"endTime":2638.665,"body":"Meaning there's not a lot of excuses here."},{"startTime":2638.855,"endTime":2639.665,"body":"I agree with that."},{"startTime":2639.665,"endTime":2642.035,"body":"Absolutely this is kind"},{"startTime":2639.665,"endTime":2642.035,"body":"of management by threat."},{"startTime":2642.245,"endTime":2643.475,"body":"It doesn't work very well."},{"startTime":2643.635,"endTime":2647.445,"body":"And that's exactly what I saw there"},{"startTime":2643.635,"endTime":2647.445,"body":"in the last few seconds of the clip"},{"startTime":2647.495,"endTime":2648.905,"body":"but you know, what will change this?"},{"startTime":2648.955,"endTime":2651.725,"body":"what would motivate somebody"},{"startTime":2648.955,"endTime":2651.725,"body":"like Jamie Diamond to say."},{"startTime":2652.1,"endTime":2653.33,"body":"I wanna change the culture."},{"startTime":2653.63,"endTime":2656.06,"body":"Where's the w film in that for him?"},{"startTime":2656.27,"endTime":2659.54,"body":"Well, I think, I think the"},{"startTime":2656.27,"endTime":2659.54,"body":"the ghost of Christmas future"},{"startTime":2659.54,"endTime":2661.46,"body":"coming, visiting you at midnight."},{"startTime":2661.49,"endTime":2663.17,"body":"Listen, it's a lot simpler than that."},{"startTime":2663.26,"endTime":2663.77,"body":"Lemme tell you."},{"startTime":2663.97,"endTime":2667.81,"body":"so, whatever equations are being"},{"startTime":2663.97,"endTime":2667.81,"body":"used today for him to accrue his"},{"startTime":2667.81,"endTime":2671.11,"body":"bonus, throw in another variable"},{"startTime":2667.81,"endTime":2671.11,"body":"in there, improve the culture."},{"startTime":2671.41,"endTime":2672.07,"body":"Hang on, hang on."},{"startTime":2672.22,"endTime":2672.4,"body":"What?"},{"startTime":2672.4,"endTime":2676.21,"body":"So he gets paid based on how"},{"startTime":2672.4,"endTime":2676.21,"body":"much he improves the culture."},{"startTime":2676.33,"endTime":2679.21,"body":"How about that for a change if"},{"startTime":2676.33,"endTime":2679.21,"body":"he's in it for the long term?"},{"startTime":2679.36,"endTime":2679.6,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":2679.6,"endTime":2680.98,"body":"I'm not gonna hold my breath for that."},{"startTime":2681.25,"endTime":2681.73,"body":"I'm not either."},{"startTime":2682.13,"endTime":2685.67,"body":"Well like, okay, so just"},{"startTime":2682.13,"endTime":2685.67,"body":"a tally tally me bananas."},{"startTime":2685.82,"endTime":2690.825,"body":"So the four Jamie Diamond in his"},{"startTime":2685.82,"endTime":2690.825,"body":"original rant form I believe we have 3"},{"startTime":2690.825,"endTime":2693.875,"body":"bananas  and we have 11 bananas against."},{"startTime":2693.875,"endTime":2698.965,"body":"So as far as monkeys go and bananas like"},{"startTime":2693.875,"endTime":2698.965,"body":"Jamie Diamond  you have some mindset"},{"startTime":2698.965,"endTime":2701.485,"body":"changes to make in this category."},{"startTime":2701.635,"endTime":2704.955,"body":"Hopefully before the next video"},{"startTime":2701.635,"endTime":2704.955,"body":"like that, he's spent some"},{"startTime":2704.955,"endTime":2706.965,"body":"time improving these things."},{"startTime":2707.055,"endTime":2710.595,"body":"Well, I'm just shouting at people's,"},{"startTime":2707.055,"endTime":2710.595,"body":"he's the only one that can improve"},{"startTime":2710.595,"endTime":2711.975,"body":"every category we've talked about."},{"startTime":2712.175,"endTime":2712.805,"body":"absolutely."},{"startTime":2713.105,"endTime":2713.585,"body":"Agreed."},{"startTime":2713.735,"endTime":2716.705,"body":"let us know what you think about"},{"startTime":2713.735,"endTime":2716.705,"body":"what we discussed today, Jamie"},{"startTime":2716.795,"endTime":2718.325,"body":"and anybody else for that matter."},{"startTime":2718.695,"endTime":2720.375,"body":"And don't forget to like and subscribe."},{"startTime":2720.675,"endTime":2722.055,"body":"Hit that bell down below."}]}