{"version":"1.0.0","segments":[{"startTime":0.0,"endTime":3.539,"body":"We did a podcast where we read"},{"startTime":0.0,"endTime":3.539,"body":"the real cynical version oh,"},{"startTime":3.539,"endTime":4.859,"body":"I'm a burnt out product manager."},{"startTime":4.859,"endTime":7.23,"body":"And all that matters is that"},{"startTime":4.859,"endTime":7.23,"body":"you play golf with the CEO."},{"startTime":7.53,"endTime":8.52,"body":"Yeah, we did."},{"startTime":8.91,"endTime":10.92,"body":"So are we gonna delve"},{"startTime":8.91,"endTime":10.92,"body":"deeper into that today?"},{"startTime":10.98,"endTime":13.77,"body":"Yeah, I think we should do a"},{"startTime":10.98,"endTime":13.77,"body":"real version of that podcast"},{"startTime":13.77,"endTime":16.85,"body":"where if we wanna be helpful to"},{"startTime":13.77,"endTime":16.85,"body":"the listeners we should probably"},{"startTime":16.85,"endTime":18.2,"body":"do a real version of that."},{"startTime":18.32,"endTime":18.799,"body":"I agree."},{"startTime":18.799,"endTime":20.36,"body":"And we do wanna be"},{"startTime":18.799,"endTime":20.36,"body":"helpful to listeners.."},{"startTime":20.36,"endTime":21.08,"body":"Let's do that."},{"startTime":21.169,"endTime":23.689,"body":"Well, they get since when"},{"startTime":21.169,"endTime":23.689,"body":"they get what they pay for."},{"startTime":27.423,"endTime":29.192,"body":"we did a podcast"},{"startTime":27.423,"endTime":29.192,"body":"not too long ago."},{"startTime":29.192,"endTime":32.162,"body":"It was arguing Agile"},{"startTime":29.192,"endTime":32.162,"body":"2 0 5, debating impact"},{"startTime":32.402,"endTime":35.253,"body":"versus visibility in"},{"startTime":32.402,"endTime":35.253,"body":"product management."},{"startTime":35.553,"endTime":39.278,"body":"Where we talked about the false"},{"startTime":35.553,"endTime":39.278,"body":"dichotomy between being good"},{"startTime":39.278,"endTime":44.678,"body":"at your job versus being seen"},{"startTime":39.278,"endTime":44.678,"body":"as valuable by leadership?"},{"startTime":44.888,"endTime":45.068,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":45.128,"endTime":46.268,"body":"Playing the part, right?"},{"startTime":46.598,"endTime":50.588,"body":"And being seen to play the"},{"startTime":46.598,"endTime":50.588,"body":"part, or playing the role."},{"startTime":50.588,"endTime":51.368,"body":"Playing the role."},{"startTime":51.428,"endTime":52.028,"body":"Yes."},{"startTime":52.088,"endTime":54.338,"body":"Anytime I can get playing"},{"startTime":52.088,"endTime":54.338,"body":"the role in it makes me feel"},{"startTime":54.338,"endTime":57.848,"body":"like we're in our first 60"},{"startTime":54.338,"endTime":57.848,"body":"podcast where I didn't edit"},{"startTime":57.848,"endTime":58.808,"body":"and everything was terrible."},{"startTime":58.838,"endTime":62.048,"body":"But on this one, I wanna make"},{"startTime":58.838,"endTime":62.048,"body":"a real earnest effort to help"},{"startTime":62.048,"endTime":64.688,"body":"people kind of understand that."},{"startTime":64.988,"endTime":68.888,"body":"A way of looking at product"},{"startTime":64.988,"endTime":68.888,"body":"management is that communication"},{"startTime":69.188,"endTime":71.228,"body":"is your primary job."},{"startTime":71.378,"endTime":73.903,"body":"if you look at product"},{"startTime":71.378,"endTime":73.903,"body":"management, I can easily see,"},{"startTime":73.903,"endTime":75.633,"body":"like at this point in the"},{"startTime":73.903,"endTime":75.633,"body":"podcast, I haven't decided"},{"startTime":75.633,"endTime":76.713,"body":"what side I'm gonna be on."},{"startTime":77.143,"endTime":79.173,"body":"I think I might be on the"},{"startTime":77.143,"endTime":79.173,"body":"opposite side of this, but I"},{"startTime":79.173,"endTime":83.043,"body":"could very easily see if you"},{"startTime":79.173,"endTime":83.043,"body":"peel product management all the"},{"startTime":83.043,"endTime":86.433,"body":"way back to the, the, if you"},{"startTime":83.043,"endTime":86.433,"body":"take the skin off the banana"},{"startTime":86.433,"endTime":90.253,"body":"and you peel it back first of"},{"startTime":86.433,"endTime":90.253,"body":"all you go, Ooh, my goodness,"},{"startTime":90.673,"endTime":91.633,"body":"what are we doing here?"},{"startTime":92.033,"endTime":94.553,"body":"But when you get done with"},{"startTime":92.033,"endTime":94.553,"body":"that I think you'll find"},{"startTime":94.973,"endTime":98.673,"body":"at the core of product"},{"startTime":94.973,"endTime":98.673,"body":"management is a,  stripped"},{"startTime":98.673,"endTime":104.643,"body":"down business leader role only"},{"startTime":98.673,"endTime":104.643,"body":"without the equity of course."},{"startTime":105.513,"endTime":106.953,"body":"Because we ain't got"},{"startTime":105.513,"endTime":106.953,"body":"no money for that."},{"startTime":106.953,"endTime":107.193,"body":"That's right."},{"startTime":107.223,"endTime":108.873,"body":"There's only so many"},{"startTime":107.223,"endTime":108.873,"body":"yachts to go around."},{"startTime":108.873,"endTime":109.563,"body":"That's what I'm saying."},{"startTime":109.903,"endTime":111.728,"body":"All the responsibility"},{"startTime":109.903,"endTime":111.728,"body":"of the founder."},{"startTime":112.028,"endTime":113.018,"body":"None of the equity."},{"startTime":113.168,"endTime":116.348,"body":"the responsibility parts"},{"startTime":113.168,"endTime":116.348,"body":"of the founder, a big part"},{"startTime":116.348,"endTime":118.848,"body":"of that is communication."},{"startTime":119.148,"endTime":121.188,"body":"Communication with"},{"startTime":119.148,"endTime":121.188,"body":"users, communication"},{"startTime":121.188,"endTime":124.038,"body":"internally, communication"},{"startTime":121.188,"endTime":124.038,"body":"with your investors,"},{"startTime":124.118,"endTime":125.228,"body":"Stakeholders, basically."},{"startTime":125.278,"endTime":125.788,"body":"Everybody."},{"startTime":126.028,"endTime":126.988,"body":"Upstream, downstream."},{"startTime":126.998,"endTime":127.328,"body":"Correct."},{"startTime":127.388,"endTime":133.738,"body":"research shows, I'm told"},{"startTime":127.388,"endTime":133.738,"body":"that 68% here, 68% of"},{"startTime":133.738,"endTime":136.288,"body":"product failure, stem"},{"startTime":133.738,"endTime":136.288,"body":"from poor communication."},{"startTime":136.468,"endTime":138.938,"body":"That is a completely"},{"startTime":136.468,"endTime":138.938,"body":"made up number to be 69."},{"startTime":139.058,"endTime":139.418,"body":"I don't know."},{"startTime":139.748,"endTime":141.248,"body":"Well, hey, you've calmed down."},{"startTime":141.448,"endTime":142.858,"body":"Hey, calm down over there."},{"startTime":143.158,"endTime":143.368,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":143.368,"endTime":145.798,"body":"So, so today we're gonna"},{"startTime":143.368,"endTime":145.798,"body":"talk about that, right?"},{"startTime":146.008,"endTime":147.628,"body":"What is the primary role?"},{"startTime":147.628,"endTime":150.178,"body":"What is your primary,"},{"startTime":147.628,"endTime":150.178,"body":"like responsibilities?"},{"startTime":150.178,"endTime":153.658,"body":"Is it communication or is it"},{"startTime":150.178,"endTime":153.658,"body":"working at the product level?"},{"startTime":153.708,"endTime":154.578,"body":"what are you doing?"},{"startTime":154.738,"endTime":155.578,"body":"let's start there."},{"startTime":155.578,"endTime":159.538,"body":"let's make the claim the"},{"startTime":155.578,"endTime":159.538,"body":"product manager, the majority of"},{"startTime":159.538,"endTime":163.708,"body":"their role, like 51%, minimum."},{"startTime":163.798,"endTime":164.338,"body":"Minimum."},{"startTime":164.338,"endTime":165.538,"body":"We're drawing a minimum, right?"},{"startTime":165.538,"endTime":167.668,"body":"51% communication is your role."},{"startTime":167.908,"endTime":169.228,"body":"51%, right?"},{"startTime":169.418,"endTime":172.948,"body":"I don't think there is"},{"startTime":169.418,"endTime":172.948,"body":"a book like reference to"},{"startTime":172.948,"endTime":173.938,"body":"go back to on this one."},{"startTime":173.938,"endTime":175.838,"body":"product management,"},{"startTime":173.938,"endTime":175.838,"body":"the product space."},{"startTime":176.138,"endTime":179.378,"body":"Is scattered to"},{"startTime":176.138,"endTime":179.378,"body":"the winds on this."},{"startTime":179.528,"endTime":181.328,"body":"There's no standards basically."},{"startTime":181.328,"endTime":183.198,"body":"There's no best practices here."},{"startTime":183.268,"endTime":186.628,"body":"surprisingly, even though"},{"startTime":183.268,"endTime":186.628,"body":"most of the books focus on the"},{"startTime":186.778,"endTime":190.228,"body":"tactical aspects of Product"},{"startTime":186.778,"endTime":190.228,"body":"management, there's still not"},{"startTime":190.588,"endTime":191.878,"body":"this kind of thing out there."},{"startTime":191.878,"endTime":195.448,"body":"So if you are a product"},{"startTime":191.878,"endTime":195.448,"body":"manager and you are on the."},{"startTime":195.808,"endTime":197.758,"body":"Other side,  you do"},{"startTime":195.808,"endTime":197.758,"body":"communication when it's"},{"startTime":197.758,"endTime":200.788,"body":"needed here and there, and"},{"startTime":197.758,"endTime":200.788,"body":"you're mainly focused on"},{"startTime":200.788,"endTime":204.148,"body":"your product, you have a"},{"startTime":200.788,"endTime":204.148,"body":"fantastic product, right?"},{"startTime":204.348,"endTime":205.368,"body":"people don't know about it."},{"startTime":205.368,"endTime":207.988,"body":"You're not communicating"},{"startTime":205.368,"endTime":207.988,"body":"that out, even internally."},{"startTime":208.288,"endTime":210.778,"body":"Internally, you have to"},{"startTime":208.288,"endTime":210.778,"body":"do a lot of communication."},{"startTime":211.138,"endTime":213.508,"body":"This is what I mean by"},{"startTime":211.138,"endTime":213.508,"body":"downstream, if you're not"},{"startTime":213.508,"endTime":216.378,"body":"doing an excellent job at"},{"startTime":213.508,"endTime":216.378,"body":"that, it doesn't matter"},{"startTime":216.378,"endTime":219.498,"body":"what your product does, it"},{"startTime":216.378,"endTime":219.498,"body":"doesn't matter how good it is."},{"startTime":219.638,"endTime":222.068,"body":"I'm going to take"},{"startTime":219.638,"endTime":222.068,"body":"the opposing side."},{"startTime":222.248,"endTime":223.718,"body":"So you'll be on the side."},{"startTime":223.748,"endTime":227.678,"body":"That communication is clearly"},{"startTime":223.748,"endTime":227.678,"body":"51 plus percent of your"},{"startTime":227.678,"endTime":230.338,"body":"time, regardless of whatever"},{"startTime":227.678,"endTime":230.338,"body":"condition you're in And"},{"startTime":230.338,"endTime":231.268,"body":"I'll be on the other side."},{"startTime":231.318,"endTime":233.718,"body":"As crazy as it sounds that"},{"startTime":231.318,"endTime":233.718,"body":"there is another, well,"},{"startTime":233.718,"endTime":234.888,"body":"Brian, there's another side."},{"startTime":234.888,"endTime":237.138,"body":"How can you dare say"},{"startTime":234.888,"endTime":237.138,"body":"there's another side?"},{"startTime":237.408,"endTime":240.258,"body":"Like I would say the other"},{"startTime":237.408,"endTime":240.258,"body":"side of this is, okay,"},{"startTime":240.258,"endTime":243.978,"body":"some like you do need, like"},{"startTime":240.258,"endTime":243.978,"body":"communication is something"},{"startTime":243.978,"endTime":246.858,"body":"you need to do - communicate"},{"startTime":243.978,"endTime":246.858,"body":"with stakeholders, but that's"},{"startTime":246.858,"endTime":251.528,"body":"just a tool like reducing"},{"startTime":246.858,"endTime":251.528,"body":"technical debt, doing strategy"},{"startTime":251.528,"endTime":253.988,"body":"and planning for the future,"},{"startTime":251.528,"endTime":253.988,"body":"working with your development"},{"startTime":253.988,"endTime":257.198,"body":"teams through issues,"},{"startTime":253.988,"endTime":257.198,"body":"monitoring logs, gathering data!"},{"startTime":257.248,"endTime":260.488,"body":"Communications here, it's just"},{"startTime":257.248,"endTime":260.488,"body":"another tool in the toolbox."},{"startTime":260.778,"endTime":263.178,"body":"sometimes you have to"},{"startTime":260.778,"endTime":263.178,"body":"flex and do more of one"},{"startTime":263.178,"endTime":264.348,"body":"tool than the other."},{"startTime":264.868,"endTime":267.388,"body":"But it's just like the claim"},{"startTime":264.868,"endTime":267.388,"body":"of that's the only thing."},{"startTime":267.793,"endTime":269.413,"body":"And then everything"},{"startTime":267.793,"endTime":269.413,"body":"else is optional."},{"startTime":269.413,"endTime":270.313,"body":"Well, yeah."},{"startTime":270.343,"endTime":272.413,"body":"Not the only thing, but a"},{"startTime":270.343,"endTime":272.413,"body":"large part of what you do."},{"startTime":272.413,"endTime":274.573,"body":"So it's not a hundred"},{"startTime":272.413,"endTime":274.573,"body":"percent we're saying,"},{"startTime":274.573,"endTime":276.283,"body":"but it's more than 51."},{"startTime":276.423,"endTime":279.003,"body":"probably somewhere in the"},{"startTime":276.423,"endTime":279.003,"body":"sixties, who knows, but probably"},{"startTime":279.003,"endTime":280.293,"body":"not in the nineties, maybe."},{"startTime":280.353,"endTime":280.683,"body":"Right."},{"startTime":280.983,"endTime":284.973,"body":"Product managers are those"},{"startTime":280.983,"endTime":284.973,"body":"translators between customers"},{"startTime":285.353,"endTime":286.823,"body":"internal folks, right."},{"startTime":287.123,"endTime":290.573,"body":"Your own company, whatever"},{"startTime":287.123,"endTime":290.573,"body":"you need to, to communicate."},{"startTime":290.903,"endTime":294.508,"body":"So if communication is"},{"startTime":290.903,"endTime":294.508,"body":"not your strong suit,"},{"startTime":294.568,"endTime":295.648,"body":"how can you succeed?"},{"startTime":295.948,"endTime":297.413,"body":"Well, first of all, if"},{"startTime":295.948,"endTime":297.413,"body":"communication's not your"},{"startTime":297.413,"endTime":299.223,"body":"strong suit, and you're"},{"startTime":297.413,"endTime":299.223,"body":"a product manager, you"},{"startTime":299.223,"endTime":300.033,"body":"have some issues there."},{"startTime":300.133,"endTime":302.173,"body":"You need to look to the left and"},{"startTime":300.133,"endTime":302.173,"body":"look to the right and figure out"},{"startTime":302.173,"endTime":303.493,"body":"why you're working on that job."},{"startTime":303.733,"endTime":305.623,"body":"I, I think like on your side."},{"startTime":305.773,"endTime":309.463,"body":"I could see someone looking at"},{"startTime":305.773,"endTime":309.463,"body":"this saying well, communications"},{"startTime":309.523,"endTime":312.673,"body":"like it is important, but"},{"startTime":309.523,"endTime":312.673,"body":"how much time does that take?"},{"startTime":312.673,"endTime":315.513,"body":"I could see the finance bro"},{"startTime":312.673,"endTime":315.513,"body":"like the private equity bro,"},{"startTime":315.513,"endTime":317.973,"body":"looking at you and be like,"},{"startTime":315.513,"endTime":317.973,"body":"Om, I understand you're saying"},{"startTime":317.973,"endTime":319.883,"body":"communication is your mo most"},{"startTime":317.973,"endTime":319.883,"body":"important thing,  you're just"},{"startTime":319.883,"endTime":320.933,"body":"sending some emails and stuff."},{"startTime":320.933,"endTime":322.673,"body":"communication is also"},{"startTime":320.933,"endTime":322.673,"body":"meaning, you're taking"},{"startTime":322.673,"endTime":323.693,"body":"time to decide things."},{"startTime":323.693,"endTime":325.433,"body":"how long does it take you"},{"startTime":323.693,"endTime":325.433,"body":"to actually make a decision?"},{"startTime":325.433,"endTime":328.283,"body":"Like what is that, like 10%"},{"startTime":325.433,"endTime":328.283,"body":"of your time that someone"},{"startTime":328.283,"endTime":330.083,"body":"asks you to make a decision"},{"startTime":328.283,"endTime":330.083,"body":"and you make a decision?"},{"startTime":330.083,"endTime":332.543,"body":"Like, how much can, how"},{"startTime":330.083,"endTime":332.543,"body":"much time can that take?"},{"startTime":332.843,"endTime":335.813,"body":"Making a decision itself"},{"startTime":332.843,"endTime":335.813,"body":"isn't gonna take time."},{"startTime":336.083,"endTime":338.513,"body":"But it's the groundwork"},{"startTime":336.083,"endTime":338.513,"body":"that leads up to it."},{"startTime":338.583,"endTime":340.363,"body":"that, cannot be"},{"startTime":338.583,"endTime":340.363,"body":"done unless you're"},{"startTime":340.363,"endTime":342.143,"body":"communicating really well."},{"startTime":342.303,"endTime":345.693,"body":"You could still make a decision"},{"startTime":342.303,"endTime":345.693,"body":"without doing that, but then"},{"startTime":345.693,"endTime":348.213,"body":"the quality of your decision"},{"startTime":345.693,"endTime":348.213,"body":"can be brought into question."},{"startTime":348.513,"endTime":348.693,"body":"Right."},{"startTime":348.813,"endTime":352.143,"body":"Well, I'd like to take a moment"},{"startTime":348.813,"endTime":352.143,"body":"to point out arguing Agile"},{"startTime":352.143,"endTime":355.983,"body":"2 0 1, mastering Stakeholder"},{"startTime":352.143,"endTime":355.983,"body":"Communication and Management."},{"startTime":356.403,"endTime":359.493,"body":"Why is it not stakeholder"},{"startTime":356.403,"endTime":359.493,"body":"management and communica?"},{"startTime":359.583,"endTime":361.673,"body":"Anyway, it should be"},{"startTime":359.583,"endTime":361.673,"body":"mastering stakeholder"},{"startTime":361.673,"endTime":364.938,"body":"communication and mastering"},{"startTime":361.673,"endTime":364.938,"body":"Stakeholder Management."},{"startTime":364.943,"endTime":365.243,"body":"Management."},{"startTime":365.273,"endTime":365.333,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":365.333,"endTime":369.443,"body":"That it's two things in one,"},{"startTime":365.333,"endTime":369.443,"body":"which is crazy because the"},{"startTime":369.443,"endTime":371.003,"body":"podcast is not even that long."},{"startTime":371.303,"endTime":372.413,"body":"because the idea that."},{"startTime":372.563,"endTime":375.913,"body":"just blasting out a marketing"},{"startTime":372.563,"endTime":375.913,"body":"release takes two seconds."},{"startTime":375.913,"endTime":377.233,"body":"that idea is great."},{"startTime":377.503,"endTime":381.073,"body":"However, it's great for"},{"startTime":377.503,"endTime":381.073,"body":"one block of the power"},{"startTime":381.073,"endTime":383.353,"body":"interest grid, which we"},{"startTime":381.073,"endTime":383.353,"body":"talked about in that podcast."},{"startTime":383.503,"endTime":385.543,"body":"But you have three other"},{"startTime":383.503,"endTime":385.543,"body":"blocks that need more"},{"startTime":385.543,"endTime":387.103,"body":"attention So that's not enough."},{"startTime":387.343,"endTime":390.553,"body":"And on the other side"},{"startTime":387.343,"endTime":390.553,"body":"really focusing just on the"},{"startTime":390.553,"endTime":395.023,"body":"communication portion may well"},{"startTime":390.553,"endTime":395.023,"body":"lead you to gravitate towards"},{"startTime":395.023,"endTime":397.573,"body":"creating endless PowerPoint"},{"startTime":395.023,"endTime":397.573,"body":"decks and things like that."},{"startTime":397.573,"endTime":399.703,"body":"There is a point at which"},{"startTime":397.573,"endTime":399.703,"body":"you have to figure out,  is"},{"startTime":399.708,"endTime":400.698,"body":"this too much information?"},{"startTime":401.178,"endTime":404.768,"body":"Sometimes less is more, This is"},{"startTime":401.178,"endTime":404.768,"body":"where you see the six pagers or"},{"startTime":404.768,"endTime":408.158,"body":"the one pagers that people do"},{"startTime":404.768,"endTime":408.158,"body":"and not the 30 page PowerPoint"},{"startTime":408.158,"endTime":410.828,"body":"deck that no one's gonna finish"},{"startTime":408.158,"endTime":410.828,"body":"in a half hour meeting anyway."},{"startTime":411.038,"endTime":411.098,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":411.308,"endTime":415.478,"body":"So this is where , the awareness"},{"startTime":411.308,"endTime":415.478,"body":"in a product manager kicks"},{"startTime":415.478,"endTime":418.868,"body":"in, communicating, but for"},{"startTime":415.478,"endTime":418.868,"body":"what purpose and how much"},{"startTime":418.958,"endTime":421.838,"body":"time to devote to that, how"},{"startTime":418.958,"endTime":421.838,"body":"much energy to devote to that."},{"startTime":422.208,"endTime":423.438,"body":"And it comes with experience."},{"startTime":423.488,"endTime":426.858,"body":"one of the things we haven't"},{"startTime":423.488,"endTime":426.858,"body":"talked about  is your product"},{"startTime":426.958,"endTime":429.778,"body":"your story that you're"},{"startTime":426.958,"endTime":429.778,"body":"telling with your product."},{"startTime":430.108,"endTime":431.968,"body":"Mm. the narrative of where"},{"startTime":430.108,"endTime":431.968,"body":"we're going in the future,"},{"startTime":432.128,"endTime":435.398,"body":"how we got here, what pain"},{"startTime":432.128,"endTime":435.398,"body":"points we solve, and where"},{"startTime":435.398,"endTime":436.268,"body":"we're going in the future."},{"startTime":436.268,"endTime":438.698,"body":"that's, we didn't really"},{"startTime":436.268,"endTime":438.698,"body":"talk I know we're gonna"},{"startTime":438.698,"endTime":439.748,"body":"talk about that later."},{"startTime":439.818,"endTime":441.468,"body":"So I don't wanna go"},{"startTime":439.818,"endTime":441.468,"body":"too deep into it now."},{"startTime":441.498,"endTime":441.738,"body":"Right."},{"startTime":441.978,"endTime":445.478,"body":"But that is the part that's"},{"startTime":441.978,"endTime":445.478,"body":"essential here creating a"},{"startTime":445.478,"endTime":446.708,"body":"narrative for the product."},{"startTime":447.173,"endTime":450.233,"body":"And building a future in"},{"startTime":447.173,"endTime":450.233,"body":"people's minds, I'm not supposed"},{"startTime":450.233,"endTime":451.553,"body":"to be arguing against this."},{"startTime":451.823,"endTime":452.993,"body":"I don't think I'm"},{"startTime":451.823,"endTime":452.993,"body":"doing a great job."},{"startTime":453.203,"endTime":455.543,"body":"I guess if I'm arguing against"},{"startTime":453.203,"endTime":455.543,"body":"this, I'm saying that's just"},{"startTime":455.543,"endTime":456.803,"body":"another tool in the toolkit."},{"startTime":456.953,"endTime":459.683,"body":"you're just email blasting"},{"startTime":456.953,"endTime":459.683,"body":"out these are the things we"},{"startTime":459.683,"endTime":463.733,"body":"accomplished and this is what"},{"startTime":459.683,"endTime":463.733,"body":"it unlocks for us in the future."},{"startTime":464.033,"endTime":467.643,"body":"And letting people come to"},{"startTime":464.033,"endTime":467.643,"body":"you  I'm trying to save you"},{"startTime":467.643,"endTime":470.493,"body":"the product manager time for"},{"startTime":467.643,"endTime":470.493,"body":"crafting a completely different"},{"startTime":470.593,"endTime":473.053,"body":"message every time you do"},{"startTime":470.593,"endTime":473.053,"body":"a release for a different"},{"startTime":473.053,"endTime":475.753,"body":"audience and then spending"},{"startTime":473.053,"endTime":475.753,"body":"time with that audience."},{"startTime":475.943,"endTime":477.863,"body":"at that point, you won't be"},{"startTime":475.943,"endTime":477.863,"body":"able to talk to customers."},{"startTime":478.073,"endTime":480.398,"body":"All you'll be doing is driving"},{"startTime":478.073,"endTime":480.398,"body":"around being , the hype man"},{"startTime":480.398,"endTime":481.058,"body":"of the development team."},{"startTime":481.238,"endTime":482.858,"body":"You'll basically be doing"},{"startTime":481.238,"endTime":482.858,"body":"marketing at that point."},{"startTime":482.858,"endTime":483.428,"body":"Yeah, exactly."},{"startTime":483.488,"endTime":484.928,"body":"But that's the extreme, right?"},{"startTime":484.928,"endTime":487.808,"body":"So neither extreme is really"},{"startTime":484.928,"endTime":487.808,"body":"desirable here, right?"},{"startTime":487.808,"endTime":488.528,"body":"Absolutely."},{"startTime":488.958,"endTime":491.178,"body":"No matter how good your"},{"startTime":488.958,"endTime":491.178,"body":"product is, it cannot"},{"startTime":491.178,"endTime":493.218,"body":"overcome poor communication."},{"startTime":493.338,"endTime":493.998,"body":"It just can't."},{"startTime":494.148,"endTime":495.618,"body":"That's the takeaway"},{"startTime":494.148,"endTime":495.618,"body":"from this category."},{"startTime":495.618,"endTime":497.058,"body":"Your decisions on the product."},{"startTime":497.058,"endTime":499.158,"body":"Like they'd be the best"},{"startTime":497.058,"endTime":499.158,"body":"decisions in the world."},{"startTime":499.458,"endTime":503.218,"body":"But if you don't drive them"},{"startTime":499.458,"endTime":503.218,"body":"out to the proper audiences."},{"startTime":503.218,"endTime":505.408,"body":"Again, going back to our"},{"startTime":503.218,"endTime":505.408,"body":"podcasts on stakeholder"},{"startTime":505.408,"endTime":506.188,"body":"management, yeah."},{"startTime":506.278,"endTime":508.798,"body":"There's a way to drive them"},{"startTime":506.278,"endTime":508.798,"body":"out to different audiences"},{"startTime":508.858,"endTime":510.658,"body":"if you don't drive them"},{"startTime":508.858,"endTime":510.658,"body":"out to the audiences that"},{"startTime":510.658,"endTime":512.968,"body":"need to hear the thing that"},{"startTime":510.658,"endTime":512.968,"body":"they need to hear, again,"},{"startTime":512.968,"endTime":514.048,"body":"listen to our other podcast."},{"startTime":514.088,"endTime":516.428,"body":"we laid out a framework"},{"startTime":514.088,"endTime":516.428,"body":"there for you actually"},{"startTime":516.668,"endTime":519.928,"body":"to hit all four quadrants"},{"startTime":516.668,"endTime":519.928,"body":"to tailor your release."},{"startTime":519.928,"endTime":521.628,"body":"There's a way to do it"},{"startTime":519.928,"endTime":521.628,"body":"where you're doing it"},{"startTime":521.628,"endTime":524.148,"body":"in a mass media style."},{"startTime":524.148,"endTime":525.648,"body":"Like it doesn't take"},{"startTime":524.148,"endTime":525.648,"body":"you a ton of time."},{"startTime":525.708,"endTime":528.198,"body":". But also each audience is"},{"startTime":525.708,"endTime":528.198,"body":"getting exactly what they need."},{"startTime":528.448,"endTime":531.498,"body":"The executives are getting"},{"startTime":528.448,"endTime":531.498,"body":"how does this help position"},{"startTime":531.498,"endTime":534.648,"body":"us with certain key customers"},{"startTime":531.498,"endTime":534.648,"body":"or position us for the future?"},{"startTime":535.068,"endTime":538.008,"body":"The user, high interest,"},{"startTime":535.068,"endTime":538.008,"body":"low power users."},{"startTime":538.218,"endTime":539.748,"body":"They're getting like,"},{"startTime":538.218,"endTime":539.748,"body":"here are the new features"},{"startTime":539.748,"endTime":540.738,"body":"that help you save time."},{"startTime":540.888,"endTime":543.458,"body":"You know, there's a way to"},{"startTime":540.888,"endTime":543.458,"body":"craft your message depending"},{"startTime":543.458,"endTime":544.478,"body":"on the different audiences."},{"startTime":544.688,"endTime":546.008,"body":"Go listen to that podcast."},{"startTime":546.008,"endTime":547.188,"body":"I think it was oh 2 0 1."},{"startTime":547.428,"endTime":547.608,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":547.618,"endTime":548.938,"body":"Mastering Stakeholder"},{"startTime":547.618,"endTime":548.938,"body":"Communication."},{"startTime":549.248,"endTime":550.208,"body":"Good podcast for this."},{"startTime":550.418,"endTime":552.708,"body":"your product decisions,"},{"startTime":550.418,"endTime":552.708,"body":"don't mean anything unless"},{"startTime":552.708,"endTime":556.218,"body":"you can properly communicate"},{"startTime":552.708,"endTime":556.218,"body":"them to the audiences that"},{"startTime":556.268,"endTime":557.918,"body":"make decisions or impact."},{"startTime":558.218,"endTime":558.548,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":558.548,"endTime":560.808,"body":"you can ignore any one"},{"startTime":558.548,"endTime":560.808,"body":"of those quadrants at"},{"startTime":560.808,"endTime":562.008,"body":"your peril, basically."},{"startTime":562.068,"endTime":562.338,"body":"Right."},{"startTime":562.368,"endTime":563.598,"body":"They're all important."},{"startTime":563.898,"endTime":567.468,"body":"At some point in time, you may"},{"startTime":563.898,"endTime":567.468,"body":"vary the amount of effort and"},{"startTime":567.468,"endTime":570.618,"body":"energy you spend on any one"},{"startTime":567.468,"endTime":570.618,"body":"of them, but it's a continuum."},{"startTime":570.668,"endTime":571.748,"body":"you've gotta be on top of that."},{"startTime":571.868,"endTime":574.388,"body":"So for the scoring for this"},{"startTime":571.868,"endTime":574.388,"body":"podcast, we're gonna go with"},{"startTime":574.388,"endTime":576.128,"body":"the Facebook 2008 scoring."},{"startTime":576.128,"endTime":578.468,"body":"We're gonna give a thumbs"},{"startTime":576.128,"endTime":578.468,"body":"up, is what we're gonna give."},{"startTime":578.468,"endTime":581.108,"body":"So for communications"},{"startTime":578.468,"endTime":581.108,"body":"is your primary job."},{"startTime":581.438,"endTime":583.118,"body":"You should be spending"},{"startTime":581.438,"endTime":583.118,"body":"majority of your time on it"},{"startTime":583.178,"endTime":586.728,"body":"versus it's just a tool in the"},{"startTime":583.178,"endTime":586.728,"body":"toolkit we're gonna give two"},{"startTime":586.728,"endTime":590.298,"body":"thumbs up for, and one thumbs"},{"startTime":586.728,"endTime":590.298,"body":"up against, because they're"},{"startTime":590.298,"endTime":592.938,"body":"very close together as those"},{"startTime":590.298,"endTime":592.938,"body":"arguments, but I think your"},{"startTime":592.938,"endTime":596.328,"body":"executives will agree, more"},{"startTime":592.938,"endTime":596.328,"body":"communication is desirable"},{"startTime":596.538,"endTime":598.728,"body":"rather than, hey, be effective."},{"startTime":598.728,"endTime":601.308,"body":"But, you know, maybe"},{"startTime":598.728,"endTime":601.308,"body":"occasionally people dunno"},{"startTime":601.308,"endTime":602.448,"body":"that you even did a release."},{"startTime":602.628,"endTime":602.808,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":602.808,"endTime":606.398,"body":"'cause the damage caused by that"},{"startTime":602.808,"endTime":606.398,"body":"is a lot worse, so let's go to"},{"startTime":606.398,"endTime":608.678,"body":"a category that I think will"},{"startTime":606.398,"endTime":608.678,"body":"be a little more challenging"},{"startTime":608.678,"endTime":612.998,"body":"for me to defend, as a product"},{"startTime":608.678,"endTime":612.998,"body":"manager, you have to create a"},{"startTime":612.998,"endTime":617.198,"body":"vision and direction for the"},{"startTime":612.998,"endTime":617.198,"body":"product because your executives"},{"startTime":617.618,"endTime":618.938,"body":"are too incompetent to do it."},{"startTime":619.238,"endTime":621.488,"body":"Sorry, I, because your"},{"startTime":619.238,"endTime":621.488,"body":"executives are too"},{"startTime":621.488,"endTime":622.418,"body":"busy with other things."},{"startTime":622.418,"endTime":624.038,"body":"That's what I'm totally mean."},{"startTime":624.068,"endTime":625.988,"body":"What I heard is they're"},{"startTime":624.068,"endTime":625.988,"body":"delegating that to you."},{"startTime":625.988,"endTime":627.068,"body":"They're delegating it."},{"startTime":627.068,"endTime":627.758,"body":"That's what it means."},{"startTime":627.948,"endTime":630.058,"body":"So which side are"},{"startTime":627.948,"endTime":630.058,"body":"you on in, this one?"},{"startTime":630.058,"endTime":631.048,"body":"For or against?"},{"startTime":631.198,"endTime":632.758,"body":"I will be against."},{"startTime":632.788,"endTime":633.178,"body":"Okay."},{"startTime":633.478,"endTime":636.373,"body":"So we're on the category"},{"startTime":633.478,"endTime":636.373,"body":"of, the idea that creating"},{"startTime":636.373,"endTime":640.243,"body":"a vision without authority,"},{"startTime":636.373,"endTime":640.243,"body":"without executive backing."},{"startTime":640.243,"endTime":644.243,"body":"Like the grassroots creating a"},{"startTime":640.243,"endTime":644.243,"body":"vision like our team is gonna"},{"startTime":644.723,"endTime":647.453,"body":"figure out what the customer"},{"startTime":644.723,"endTime":647.453,"body":"needs and back into that as a"},{"startTime":647.453,"endTime":648.773,"body":"company into our priorities."},{"startTime":649.073,"endTime":651.783,"body":"I don't know if that's a great"},{"startTime":649.073,"endTime":651.783,"body":"way to go about things, that's"},{"startTime":651.783,"endTime":654.963,"body":"my pushback against this"},{"startTime":651.783,"endTime":654.963,"body":"category to say like, hey, the,"},{"startTime":654.993,"endTime":659.233,"body":"the the like communication, it's"},{"startTime":654.993,"endTime":659.233,"body":"the majority of the PM's job."},{"startTime":659.533,"endTime":660.883,"body":"And I will say,  that's true."},{"startTime":660.913,"endTime":663.073,"body":"Communication is the"},{"startTime":660.913,"endTime":663.073,"body":"majority of the PM's job."},{"startTime":663.283,"endTime":667.213,"body":"But the point where the company"},{"startTime":663.283,"endTime":667.213,"body":"has no clearly expressed"},{"startTime":667.363,"endTime":670.633,"body":"strategy, and then the PM just"},{"startTime":667.363,"endTime":670.633,"body":"starts deciding strategies."},{"startTime":670.783,"endTime":672.433,"body":"I think, you're basically"},{"startTime":670.783,"endTime":672.433,"body":"throwing a bunch of"},{"startTime":672.433,"endTime":674.203,"body":"knives out on the ground"},{"startTime":672.433,"endTime":674.203,"body":"and seeing who wants to"},{"startTime":674.203,"endTime":675.283,"body":"fight you at this point."},{"startTime":675.383,"endTime":678.893,"body":"I think you're just inviting"},{"startTime":675.383,"endTime":678.893,"body":"yourself into this world where"},{"startTime":678.923,"endTime":682.133,"body":"another executive picks a"},{"startTime":678.923,"endTime":682.133,"body":"knife up and is like, how dare"},{"startTime":682.133,"endTime":683.723,"body":"you come up with a strategy?"},{"startTime":683.933,"endTime":687.653,"body":"the big important heads are"},{"startTime":683.933,"endTime":687.653,"body":"gonna go off on a retreat"},{"startTime":687.653,"endTime":689.813,"body":"and hang out with Brian"},{"startTime":687.653,"endTime":689.813,"body":"Chesky and talk about how"},{"startTime":689.813,"endTime":691.973,"body":"they went on a hike and"},{"startTime":689.813,"endTime":691.973,"body":"come back with a strategy."},{"startTime":692.053,"endTime":695.473,"body":"So a product manager who is"},{"startTime":692.053,"endTime":695.473,"body":"emboldened enough to create a"},{"startTime":695.473,"endTime":699.393,"body":"strategy like that, they could"},{"startTime":695.473,"endTime":699.393,"body":"say, look, market opportunities,"},{"startTime":699.393,"endTime":702.093,"body":"don't wait for people to"},{"startTime":699.393,"endTime":702.093,"body":"come back from a retreat."},{"startTime":702.193,"endTime":704.653,"body":"I'm gonna have to do something"},{"startTime":702.193,"endTime":704.653,"body":"quick and just do it."},{"startTime":704.733,"endTime":705.813,"body":". 'cause , I've seen the data."},{"startTime":705.943,"endTime":708.643,"body":"So be data driven and go for it."},{"startTime":709.053,"endTime":711.213,"body":"The alternative is, well,"},{"startTime":709.053,"endTime":711.213,"body":"you missed that window."},{"startTime":711.628,"endTime":714.508,"body":"I don't know which side I'm on"},{"startTime":711.628,"endTime":714.508,"body":"at the moment, really, because"},{"startTime":714.518,"endTime":717.248,"body":"if you have five product"},{"startTime":714.518,"endTime":717.248,"body":"managers deciding strategy,"},{"startTime":717.548,"endTime":720.458,"body":"you're gonna have a muddled"},{"startTime":717.548,"endTime":720.458,"body":"strategy to say the least."},{"startTime":720.488,"endTime":722.058,"body":"Well, let me bring"},{"startTime":720.488,"endTime":722.058,"body":"you to my side Om."},{"startTime":722.108,"endTime":723.758,"body":"Let me bring you to my"},{"startTime":722.108,"endTime":723.758,"body":"side on this one, because"},{"startTime":723.908,"endTime":726.038,"body":"I'm having a good time"},{"startTime":723.908,"endTime":726.038,"body":"arguing against this one."},{"startTime":726.138,"endTime":729.038,"body":"normally I'd be arguing for"},{"startTime":726.138,"endTime":729.038,"body":"this one listen, our vision"},{"startTime":729.038,"endTime":730.118,"body":"needs to be on the same page."},{"startTime":730.118,"endTime":733.038,"body":"Otherwise, if we're in a company"},{"startTime":730.118,"endTime":733.038,"body":"with several product managers,"},{"startTime":733.198,"endTime":734.308,"body":"there's a lot of risk here."},{"startTime":734.648,"endTime":736.928,"body":"The risk is we could end"},{"startTime":734.648,"endTime":736.928,"body":"up building the same thing"},{"startTime":737.168,"endTime":738.428,"body":"for the same customer."},{"startTime":738.488,"endTime":739.928,"body":"Now we're all stepping"},{"startTime":738.488,"endTime":739.928,"body":"over each other."},{"startTime":739.928,"endTime":742.268,"body":"Now we have duplicative effort."},{"startTime":742.388,"endTime":743.168,"body":"I love that word."},{"startTime":743.168,"endTime":743.588,"body":"Duplicative."},{"startTime":743.593,"endTime":743.733,"body":"Duplicative."},{"startTime":743.738,"endTime":744.308,"body":"That's a great one."},{"startTime":744.313,"endTime":748.608,"body":"Yeah, the arguing point against"},{"startTime":744.313,"endTime":748.608,"body":"this one  is pretty strong,"},{"startTime":748.608,"endTime":753.058,"body":"most executives, as far as"},{"startTime":748.608,"endTime":753.058,"body":"strategy, if strategy's a light"},{"startTime":753.058,"endTime":755.368,"body":"in the dark, they couldn't find"},{"startTime":753.058,"endTime":755.368,"body":"their way out of a paperback."},{"startTime":755.498,"endTime":757.898,"body":"They're chasing money no matter"},{"startTime":755.498,"endTime":757.898,"body":"where that money comes from."},{"startTime":758.178,"endTime":761.628,"body":"if the money comes in the"},{"startTime":758.178,"endTime":761.628,"body":"form of a customer saying,"},{"startTime":761.808,"endTime":764.268,"body":"just do this one thing,"},{"startTime":761.808,"endTime":764.268,"body":"build this one feature."},{"startTime":764.628,"endTime":768.078,"body":"And then that doesn't lend"},{"startTime":764.628,"endTime":768.078,"body":"itself to your broader"},{"startTime":768.078,"endTime":770.058,"body":"strategy, the direction"},{"startTime":768.078,"endTime":770.058,"body":"your company's going."},{"startTime":770.358,"endTime":773.688,"body":"You're gonna spend 4, 6, 8"},{"startTime":770.358,"endTime":773.688,"body":"months building a thing with"},{"startTime":773.688,"endTime":776.128,"body":"your development team, and"},{"startTime":773.688,"endTime":776.128,"body":"then at the end of that 4,"},{"startTime":776.128,"endTime":779.388,"body":"6, 8 months, you're nowhere"},{"startTime":776.128,"endTime":779.388,"body":"closer to your company's"},{"startTime":779.388,"endTime":782.958,"body":"goals, to your vision,"},{"startTime":779.388,"endTime":782.958,"body":"to a future state at all."},{"startTime":782.958,"endTime":786.138,"body":"You just did that so you can"},{"startTime":782.958,"endTime":786.138,"body":"cash in on that opportunity."},{"startTime":786.138,"endTime":788.178,"body":"And then that customer"},{"startTime":786.138,"endTime":788.178,"body":"at the end of the year,"},{"startTime":788.358,"endTime":790.968,"body":"renewal season, whatever,"},{"startTime":788.358,"endTime":790.968,"body":"they're like, ah, I'm out."},{"startTime":791.068,"endTime":792.058,"body":"Well, they get a better offer."},{"startTime":792.058,"endTime":792.568,"body":"Absolutely."},{"startTime":792.568,"endTime":794.068,"body":"and then  your company"},{"startTime":792.568,"endTime":794.068,"body":"will be like, hey, we"},{"startTime":794.068,"endTime":795.117,"body":"gotta pay the bills."},{"startTime":795.117,"endTime":796.228,"body":"And this was money now."},{"startTime":796.278,"endTime":797.808,"body":"they'll make a lot of excuses."},{"startTime":798.258,"endTime":801.898,"body":"But, the product manager"},{"startTime":798.258,"endTime":801.898,"body":"viewpoint here is, we"},{"startTime":801.898,"endTime":802.978,"body":"should have said no."},{"startTime":803.228,"endTime":806.078,"body":"Actually the founder viewpoint"},{"startTime":803.228,"endTime":806.078,"body":"here is, it might've been"},{"startTime":806.078,"endTime":809.288,"body":"painful in the short term, but"},{"startTime":806.078,"endTime":809.288,"body":"we should say no to that money."},{"startTime":809.688,"endTime":812.988,"body":"So that six months from now,"},{"startTime":809.688,"endTime":812.988,"body":"eight months from now, we"},{"startTime":812.988,"endTime":815.448,"body":"could be further towards the"},{"startTime":812.988,"endTime":815.448,"body":"future we need to get to."},{"startTime":815.598,"endTime":817.158,"body":"It doesn't align with"},{"startTime":815.598,"endTime":817.158,"body":"where we're going."},{"startTime":817.408,"endTime":819.268,"body":"Large companies, don't"},{"startTime":817.408,"endTime":819.268,"body":"have this option."},{"startTime":819.468,"endTime":821.313,"body":"You have the vision"},{"startTime":819.468,"endTime":821.313,"body":"laid out for you, right?"},{"startTime":821.598,"endTime":822.318,"body":"Absolutely."},{"startTime":822.638,"endTime":825.908,"body":"So while I agree with you"},{"startTime":822.638,"endTime":825.908,"body":"in real life, very few"},{"startTime":825.908,"endTime":829.778,"body":"companies will say, no"},{"startTime":825.908,"endTime":829.778,"body":"to the low hanging fruit."},{"startTime":829.778,"endTime":830.108,"body":"Right."},{"startTime":830.408,"endTime":833.498,"body":"this is kind of like talking"},{"startTime":830.408,"endTime":833.498,"body":"about two extremes, but there's"},{"startTime":833.498,"endTime":834.698,"body":"probably a middle ground here."},{"startTime":835.098,"endTime":837.798,"body":"the product manager could"},{"startTime":835.098,"endTime":837.798,"body":"be autonomous enough to make"},{"startTime":838.188,"endTime":841.938,"body":"strategy decisions, but not"},{"startTime":838.188,"endTime":841.938,"body":"veer too far away from the"},{"startTime":841.938,"endTime":843.228,"body":"organizational strategy."},{"startTime":843.228,"endTime":843.378,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":843.738,"endTime":844.098,"body":"Right."},{"startTime":844.558,"endTime":847.388,"body":"and that'll be okay, but"},{"startTime":844.558,"endTime":847.388,"body":"if they do, then that"},{"startTime":847.388,"endTime":848.678,"body":"might invite disaster."},{"startTime":848.728,"endTime":850.708,"body":"let me throw another one"},{"startTime":848.728,"endTime":850.708,"body":"out to see if I can bring"},{"startTime":850.708,"endTime":853.508,"body":"you closer to my position"},{"startTime":850.708,"endTime":853.508,"body":"here This is the great one"},{"startTime":853.508,"endTime":854.438,"body":"about product management."},{"startTime":854.438,"endTime":857.078,"body":"I love hearing people say,"},{"startTime":854.438,"endTime":857.078,"body":"well, product management"},{"startTime":857.078,"endTime":859.178,"body":"is, it's like the founder"},{"startTime":857.078,"endTime":859.178,"body":"role, but without authority."},{"startTime":859.178,"endTime":861.268,"body":"So you have to lead"},{"startTime":859.178,"endTime":861.268,"body":"by influence  right?"},{"startTime":861.418,"endTime":866.308,"body":"Without authority, like your"},{"startTime":861.418,"endTime":866.308,"body":"vision, like your direction"},{"startTime":866.308,"endTime":868.498,"body":"and your vision, you pull"},{"startTime":866.308,"endTime":868.498,"body":"together, you go meet with"},{"startTime":868.498,"endTime":871.968,"body":"customers, you talk to them,"},{"startTime":868.498,"endTime":871.968,"body":"craft a vision, pull it all"},{"startTime":871.968,"endTime":875.618,"body":"together, Without authority,"},{"startTime":871.968,"endTime":875.618,"body":"that is just a suggestion."},{"startTime":876.108,"endTime":881.748,"body":"Your well researched viewpoint"},{"startTime":876.108,"endTime":881.748,"body":"becomes just in opinion."},{"startTime":881.988,"endTime":882.138,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":882.168,"endTime":883.578,"body":"With without authority."},{"startTime":883.878,"endTime":886.098,"body":"This one's hard to argue"},{"startTime":883.878,"endTime":886.098,"body":"against, especially when"},{"startTime":886.098,"endTime":889.128,"body":"you consider multiple"},{"startTime":886.098,"endTime":889.128,"body":"product managers potentially"},{"startTime":889.128,"endTime":891.408,"body":"bringing their own strategy."},{"startTime":891.468,"endTime":891.918,"body":"Right."},{"startTime":891.978,"endTime":895.128,"body":"It's hard to get organizational"},{"startTime":891.978,"endTime":895.128,"body":"alignment behind your"},{"startTime":895.128,"endTime":897.108,"body":"strategy, because people"},{"startTime":895.128,"endTime":897.108,"body":"are not gonna listen to you."},{"startTime":897.108,"endTime":899.698,"body":"They listen to the execs,"},{"startTime":897.108,"endTime":899.698,"body":"if they don't do that, then"},{"startTime":899.698,"endTime":903.208,"body":"you're not working in unison"},{"startTime":899.698,"endTime":903.208,"body":"towards a strategic goal."},{"startTime":903.208,"endTime":903.568,"body":"Right?"},{"startTime":903.623,"endTime":905.483,"body":"So this one's hard"},{"startTime":903.623,"endTime":905.483,"body":"to argue out of."},{"startTime":905.783,"endTime":909.663,"body":"I'd say without authority, what"},{"startTime":905.783,"endTime":909.663,"body":"would be better is to create the"},{"startTime":909.663,"endTime":913.563,"body":"strategy and reach out to one"},{"startTime":909.663,"endTime":913.563,"body":"of those people that are on the"},{"startTime":913.563,"endTime":917.123,"body":"golf course with Brian Chesky"},{"startTime":913.563,"endTime":917.123,"body":"and say, this is our strategy."},{"startTime":917.498,"endTime":919.028,"body":"Please blast this out."},{"startTime":919.328,"endTime":920.288,"body":"That's all they have to do."},{"startTime":920.378,"endTime":921.518,"body":"They can do that"},{"startTime":920.378,"endTime":921.518,"body":"from their phone."},{"startTime":921.698,"endTime":924.278,"body":"So I kind of can't"},{"startTime":921.698,"endTime":924.278,"body":"argue against that one."},{"startTime":924.328,"endTime":925.288,"body":"what's our scale today?"},{"startTime":925.738,"endTime":928.108,"body":"Whatever the scale is,"},{"startTime":925.738,"endTime":928.108,"body":"this one gets equal."},{"startTime":928.288,"endTime":928.528,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":928.528,"endTime":929.367,"body":"We're gonna call this one."},{"startTime":929.517,"endTime":930.772,"body":"I, I wrote two in one."},{"startTime":930.772,"endTime":931.822,"body":"I forgot where our scale was."},{"startTime":931.942,"endTime":932.422,"body":"Two and one."},{"startTime":932.422,"endTime":934.152,"body":"Sounds like scores"},{"startTime":932.422,"endTime":934.152,"body":"of a soccer game."},{"startTime":934.152,"endTime":935.295,"body":"Sorry, I'm gonna give"},{"startTime":934.152,"endTime":935.295,"body":"this one An equal amount"},{"startTime":935.3,"endTime":936.37,"body":"of bunts and burners."},{"startTime":936.52,"endTime":940.031,"body":"I wrote little beakers on my"},{"startTime":936.52,"endTime":940.031,"body":"pad with bunts and burners"},{"startTime":940.031,"endTime":942.68,"body":"underneath them so it gets"},{"startTime":940.031,"endTime":942.68,"body":"an equal amount of BTUs."},{"startTime":942.68,"endTime":944.3,"body":"That's right, that's right."},{"startTime":944.35,"endTime":946.18,"body":"BTUs."},{"startTime":946.48,"endTime":948.91,"body":"All these kind of like,"},{"startTime":946.48,"endTime":948.91,"body":"tangents made me just"},{"startTime":948.91,"endTime":950.29,"body":"want to do a live podcast."},{"startTime":950.34,"endTime":952.53,"body":"the next category I"},{"startTime":950.34,"endTime":952.53,"body":"want to talk about is."},{"startTime":952.87,"endTime":956.285,"body":"on the podcast we did not too"},{"startTime":952.87,"endTime":956.285,"body":"long ago, 2 0 1 of mastering"},{"startTime":956.285,"endTime":959.345,"body":"Stakeholder Communication and"},{"startTime":956.285,"endTime":959.345,"body":"Management Arguing Agile 2 0 1."},{"startTime":959.645,"endTime":961.835,"body":"We talk about the"},{"startTime":959.645,"endTime":961.835,"body":"power interest matrix."},{"startTime":961.835,"endTime":963.605,"body":"breaking down your"},{"startTime":961.835,"endTime":963.605,"body":"stakeholders in different"},{"startTime":963.875,"endTime":965.075,"body":"segments of the quad."},{"startTime":965.315,"endTime":969.895,"body":"And in this category of"},{"startTime":965.315,"endTime":969.895,"body":"stakeholder mapping you need to"},{"startTime":970.255,"endTime":973.725,"body":"handle each segment differently,"},{"startTime":970.255,"endTime":973.725,"body":"like completely differently,"},{"startTime":973.725,"endTime":977.765,"body":"different framework, like in the"},{"startTime":973.725,"endTime":977.765,"body":"low interest, low power, you're"},{"startTime":977.765,"endTime":980.855,"body":"just blasting out to a Slack"},{"startTime":977.765,"endTime":980.855,"body":"channel or over the internet or"},{"startTime":981.005,"endTime":983.615,"body":"adding to your release notes and"},{"startTime":981.005,"endTime":983.615,"body":"throwing into the application."},{"startTime":983.855,"endTime":983.915,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":983.925,"endTime":986.265,"body":"Whereas the high power,"},{"startTime":983.925,"endTime":986.265,"body":"high interest folks, you're"},{"startTime":986.265,"endTime":988.605,"body":"having a one-on-one with"},{"startTime":986.265,"endTime":988.605,"body":"them like every week."},{"startTime":989.1,"endTime":991.5,"body":"Where you, like you were"},{"startTime":989.1,"endTime":991.5,"body":"talking about like the different"},{"startTime":991.89,"endTime":994.11,"body":"interviews that you're doing"},{"startTime":991.89,"endTime":994.11,"body":"and what you're thinking, before"},{"startTime":994.11,"endTime":997.75,"body":"you even made a decision, giving"},{"startTime":994.11,"endTime":997.75,"body":"them a window to say Hey, I"},{"startTime":997.75,"endTime":999.55,"body":"think I might make this decision"},{"startTime":999.75,"endTime":1003.46,"body":"I want to challenge that in this"},{"startTime":999.75,"endTime":1003.46,"body":"category if communications is"},{"startTime":1003.46,"endTime":1010.24,"body":"your main job, you're just gonna"},{"startTime":1003.46,"endTime":1010.24,"body":"manage this quad, like 24 7 and"},{"startTime":1010.6,"endTime":1013.99,"body":"are you gonna have any time left"},{"startTime":1010.6,"endTime":1013.99,"body":"to, to, to do any real work?"},{"startTime":1013.99,"endTime":1017.13,"body":"Is there a way you can just"},{"startTime":1013.99,"endTime":1017.13,"body":"send out decisions to the squad?"},{"startTime":1017.13,"endTime":1019.47,"body":"is there a way you can"},{"startTime":1017.13,"endTime":1019.47,"body":"spend less time doing this"},{"startTime":1019.47,"endTime":1022.77,"body":"navigation of the quad"},{"startTime":1019.47,"endTime":1022.77,"body":"and then get to real work?"},{"startTime":1022.97,"endTime":1024.77,"body":"the flip side of that"},{"startTime":1022.97,"endTime":1024.77,"body":"would be just don't"},{"startTime":1024.77,"endTime":1025.84,"body":"bother, just send out."},{"startTime":1026.14,"endTime":1028.42,"body":"Communications to"},{"startTime":1026.14,"endTime":1028.42,"body":"everybody, right?"},{"startTime":1028.45,"endTime":1031.27,"body":"Maybe you can automate your"},{"startTime":1028.45,"endTime":1031.27,"body":"communications at the quadrants"},{"startTime":1031.27,"endTime":1034.11,"body":"where you're sending a more"},{"startTime":1031.27,"endTime":1034.11,"body":"detailed message to your"},{"startTime":1034.11,"endTime":1037.84,"body":"executives a less detailed"},{"startTime":1034.11,"endTime":1037.84,"body":"message to your external users."},{"startTime":1037.96,"endTime":1040.39,"body":"And a, you know, a message"},{"startTime":1037.96,"endTime":1040.39,"body":"with some notes to your"},{"startTime":1040.39,"endTime":1042.88,"body":"internal, like, something"},{"startTime":1040.39,"endTime":1042.88,"body":"like that, you know, y Yeah."},{"startTime":1042.94,"endTime":1043.12,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":1043.12,"endTime":1046.81,"body":"So doing that need and take a"},{"startTime":1043.12,"endTime":1046.81,"body":"large percentage of your time"},{"startTime":1046.81,"endTime":1049.41,"body":"if you can use the automation"},{"startTime":1046.81,"endTime":1049.41,"body":"tools we have  now, right?"},{"startTime":1049.74,"endTime":1052.54,"body":"I still think you need"},{"startTime":1049.74,"endTime":1052.54,"body":"to pay attention to your"},{"startTime":1052.54,"endTime":1054.19,"body":"stakeholders needs and map them."},{"startTime":1054.37,"endTime":1056.59,"body":". These people could"},{"startTime":1054.37,"endTime":1056.59,"body":"make or break."},{"startTime":1056.825,"endTime":1059.015,"body":"What you're trying to do,"},{"startTime":1056.825,"endTime":1059.015,"body":"especially those  high"},{"startTime":1059.015,"endTime":1060.515,"body":"power, high influence people."},{"startTime":1060.515,"endTime":1060.575,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":1061.025,"endTime":1065.515,"body":"Those people that segmentation,"},{"startTime":1061.025,"endTime":1065.515,"body":"is needed, but not to the"},{"startTime":1065.515,"endTime":1068.515,"body":"point where all you're doing is"},{"startTime":1065.515,"endTime":1068.515,"body":"figuring out what to tell whom."},{"startTime":1068.565,"endTime":1069.735,"body":"We have the four quads, right?"},{"startTime":1069.735,"endTime":1073.745,"body":"a power interest matrix"},{"startTime":1069.735,"endTime":1073.745,"body":"and what do you do in the"},{"startTime":1073.745,"endTime":1078.525,"body":"situation where, how do"},{"startTime":1073.745,"endTime":1078.525,"body":"you keep the comms, because"},{"startTime":1078.675,"endTime":1080.685,"body":"you're communicating out"},{"startTime":1078.675,"endTime":1080.685,"body":"to those groups, those"},{"startTime":1080.685,"endTime":1081.705,"body":"four separate groups."},{"startTime":1081.93,"endTime":1083.31,"body":"Four separate messages."},{"startTime":1083.43,"endTime":1083.79,"body":"Right."},{"startTime":1083.91,"endTime":1085.98,"body":"And inside those groups,"},{"startTime":1083.91,"endTime":1085.98,"body":"it might be several,"},{"startTime":1086.03,"endTime":1088.54,"body":"subgroups but let's just"},{"startTime":1086.03,"endTime":1088.54,"body":"skip over that for a second."},{"startTime":1088.63,"endTime":1088.78,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":1089.08,"endTime":1092.8,"body":"And say you're communicating out"},{"startTime":1089.08,"endTime":1092.8,"body":"to those groups and those groups"},{"startTime":1092.8,"endTime":1094.21,"body":"are interacting with each other."},{"startTime":1094.39,"endTime":1097.505,"body":"So like in the case of"},{"startTime":1094.39,"endTime":1097.505,"body":"high power, low interest."},{"startTime":1097.525,"endTime":1097.945,"body":"Mm-hmm."},{"startTime":1098.245,"endTime":1102.415,"body":"Those are like peers to your"},{"startTime":1098.245,"endTime":1102.415,"body":"high power, high interest"},{"startTime":1102.505,"endTime":1103.495,"body":"people that you work for."},{"startTime":1103.865,"endTime":1106.955,"body":"the high power folks, regardless"},{"startTime":1103.865,"endTime":1106.955,"body":"if they have low or high"},{"startTime":1106.955,"endTime":1109.145,"body":"interest, they're talking to"},{"startTime":1106.955,"endTime":1109.145,"body":"each other behind the scenes."},{"startTime":1109.445,"endTime":1109.535,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":1109.595,"endTime":1112.345,"body":"So they're gonna talk to"},{"startTime":1109.595,"endTime":1112.345,"body":"each other and they need"},{"startTime":1112.345,"endTime":1115.255,"body":"to come to you to find out"},{"startTime":1112.345,"endTime":1115.255,"body":"what the ground truth is."},{"startTime":1115.505,"endTime":1118.295,"body":". Again, this could"},{"startTime":1115.505,"endTime":1118.295,"body":"eat all of your time."},{"startTime":1118.505,"endTime":1123.115,"body":"It really should not if your"},{"startTime":1118.505,"endTime":1123.115,"body":"communications are of a decent"},{"startTime":1123.115,"endTime":1127.195,"body":"level of clarity in your"},{"startTime":1123.115,"endTime":1127.195,"body":"preempting what they're really"},{"startTime":1127.195,"endTime":1131.905,"body":"looking for from your comms, it"},{"startTime":1127.195,"endTime":1131.905,"body":"need not take all of your time."},{"startTime":1131.995,"endTime":1132.205,"body":"Okay."},{"startTime":1132.205,"endTime":1134.555,"body":"So are you saying like"},{"startTime":1132.205,"endTime":1134.555,"body":"the consistency of your"},{"startTime":1134.555,"endTime":1135.875,"body":"messaging is not like."},{"startTime":1136.175,"endTime":1138.125,"body":"Good enough, like"},{"startTime":1136.175,"endTime":1138.125,"body":"not detailed enough."},{"startTime":1138.425,"endTime":1141.415,"body":"So if a situation like that"},{"startTime":1138.425,"endTime":1141.415,"body":"happens Where, oh, I talked"},{"startTime":1141.415,"endTime":1143.075,"body":"to this person and they"},{"startTime":1141.415,"endTime":1143.075,"body":"said they thought you were"},{"startTime":1143.075,"endTime":1143.885,"body":"doing this or whatever."},{"startTime":1144.125,"endTime":1147.085,"body":"okay, well, I, the product"},{"startTime":1144.125,"endTime":1147.085,"body":"manager haven't consistently"},{"startTime":1147.385,"endTime":1151.945,"body":"put out a thorough enough"},{"startTime":1147.385,"endTime":1151.945,"body":"message to all my groups."},{"startTime":1151.945,"endTime":1155.695,"body":"I need to refactor my messaging"},{"startTime":1151.945,"endTime":1155.695,"body":"and send out more detail"},{"startTime":1155.845,"endTime":1157.405,"body":"more detail or more clarity."},{"startTime":1157.405,"endTime":1158.12,"body":"I think that's true."},{"startTime":1158.125,"endTime":1160.885,"body":"or a larger horizon than"},{"startTime":1158.125,"endTime":1160.885,"body":"I'm broadcasting possibly."},{"startTime":1160.885,"endTime":1161.095,"body":"Right?"},{"startTime":1161.095,"endTime":1163.945,"body":"So at the end of the day,"},{"startTime":1161.095,"endTime":1163.945,"body":"it's the WIIFMs, think about"},{"startTime":1163.975,"endTime":1166.915,"body":"each of the quadrants and put"},{"startTime":1163.975,"endTime":1166.915,"body":"yourself in their shoes and say,"},{"startTime":1166.915,"endTime":1168.145,"body":"what's in it for me from here?"},{"startTime":1168.535,"endTime":1171.695,"body":"So those people that are"},{"startTime":1168.535,"endTime":1171.695,"body":"low interest but high."},{"startTime":1172.055,"endTime":1173.615,"body":"Influence high power, right?"},{"startTime":1173.615,"endTime":1173.675,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":1173.885,"endTime":1176.585,"body":"It could be your CFO,"},{"startTime":1173.885,"endTime":1176.585,"body":"they're not interested in the"},{"startTime":1176.585,"endTime":1179.405,"body":"intricacies of your product,"},{"startTime":1176.585,"endTime":1179.405,"body":"but they are interested"},{"startTime":1179.405,"endTime":1181.025,"body":"in the financial side."},{"startTime":1181.025,"endTime":1181.045,"body":"Right."},{"startTime":1181.345,"endTime":1183.745,"body":"You could give them a"},{"startTime":1181.345,"endTime":1183.745,"body":"little bit of information"},{"startTime":1183.745,"endTime":1185.215,"body":"around the finances."},{"startTime":1185.215,"endTime":1187.105,"body":"Which the other people"},{"startTime":1185.215,"endTime":1187.105,"body":"don't care about on the"},{"startTime":1187.105,"endTime":1191.785,"body":"opposite quadrant, but"},{"startTime":1187.105,"endTime":1191.785,"body":"also be open to follow ups."},{"startTime":1191.905,"endTime":1192.205,"body":"Right."},{"startTime":1192.205,"endTime":1195.655,"body":"Because that's nothing worse"},{"startTime":1192.205,"endTime":1195.655,"body":"than simply sending out comms"},{"startTime":1195.97,"endTime":1199.155,"body":"in, in almost like a one-way"},{"startTime":1195.97,"endTime":1199.155,"body":"blast Type of situation."},{"startTime":1199.455,"endTime":1202.655,"body":"So put avenues up"},{"startTime":1199.455,"endTime":1202.655,"body":"delegate some of the work."},{"startTime":1202.775,"endTime":1205.775,"body":"there's no one solution"},{"startTime":1202.775,"endTime":1205.775,"body":"to this in real life."},{"startTime":1205.775,"endTime":1208.985,"body":"What will happen is you'll"},{"startTime":1205.775,"endTime":1208.985,"body":"spend time on certain quadrants."},{"startTime":1209.285,"endTime":1209.615,"body":"Right."},{"startTime":1209.615,"endTime":1210.455,"body":"Some of the times."},{"startTime":1210.695,"endTime":1213.455,"body":"And then other times you'll"},{"startTime":1210.695,"endTime":1213.455,"body":"spend time on other quadrants."},{"startTime":1213.605,"endTime":1215.105,"body":"Now you might think it's"},{"startTime":1213.605,"endTime":1215.105,"body":"a waste of your time"},{"startTime":1215.105,"endTime":1216.365,"body":"to go in that low lobe."},{"startTime":1216.545,"endTime":1216.875,"body":"Right."},{"startTime":1217.175,"endTime":1220.325,"body":"But they're important because"},{"startTime":1217.175,"endTime":1220.325,"body":"they have strength in numbers."},{"startTime":1220.325,"endTime":1221.465,"body":"There's a lot of them there."},{"startTime":1221.515,"endTime":1224.155,"body":"The opposite quadrant, fewer"},{"startTime":1221.515,"endTime":1224.155,"body":"people, but they matter too."},{"startTime":1224.365,"endTime":1225.655,"body":"So you gotta figure that out."},{"startTime":1225.755,"endTime":1228.965,"body":"Maybe you delegate some of that,"},{"startTime":1225.755,"endTime":1228.965,"body":"you know, the actual comms part."},{"startTime":1229.015,"endTime":1231.115,"body":"the interesting part here"},{"startTime":1229.015,"endTime":1231.115,"body":"is I have a note that says,"},{"startTime":1231.145,"endTime":1234.985,"body":"executives should understand"},{"startTime":1231.145,"endTime":1234.985,"body":"tactical constraints as"},{"startTime":1234.985,"endTime":1238.465,"body":"well as the engineers"},{"startTime":1234.985,"endTime":1238.465,"body":"understand business goals."},{"startTime":1238.885,"endTime":1241.785,"body":"So the idea is one group"},{"startTime":1238.885,"endTime":1241.785,"body":"understands the other group's"},{"startTime":1241.785,"endTime":1243.615,"body":"concerns equally well."},{"startTime":1243.815,"endTime":1246.055,"body":"from my perspective, you"},{"startTime":1243.815,"endTime":1246.055,"body":"just have to be a wizard"},{"startTime":1246.175,"endTime":1249.0,"body":"to be able to, I mean, it's"},{"startTime":1246.175,"endTime":1249.0,"body":"not really being, a wizard."},{"startTime":1249.06,"endTime":1250.41,"body":"I'm being a little"},{"startTime":1249.06,"endTime":1250.41,"body":"bit ridiculous."},{"startTime":1250.41,"endTime":1253.73,"body":"really what you have to"},{"startTime":1250.41,"endTime":1253.73,"body":"do is, be empathetic from"},{"startTime":1253.73,"endTime":1256.37,"body":"one end of the spectrum to"},{"startTime":1253.73,"endTime":1256.37,"body":"the complete opposite end."},{"startTime":1256.37,"endTime":1258.86,"body":"So that everybody"},{"startTime":1256.37,"endTime":1258.86,"body":"understands everybody else's"},{"startTime":1259.07,"endTime":1260.3,"body":"view of the situation."},{"startTime":1260.3,"endTime":1261.74,"body":"That's really what's"},{"startTime":1260.3,"endTime":1261.74,"body":"happening here."},{"startTime":1261.79,"endTime":1264.595,"body":"I guess I'm talking myself into"},{"startTime":1261.79,"endTime":1264.595,"body":"losing this category because"},{"startTime":1264.825,"endTime":1270.345,"body":"you need to spend enough time"},{"startTime":1264.825,"endTime":1270.345,"body":"to build this like end-to-end"},{"startTime":1270.345,"endTime":1274.995,"body":"bridge that everyone can walk"},{"startTime":1270.345,"endTime":1274.995,"body":"on, and then the rest of the"},{"startTime":1274.995,"endTime":1277.035,"body":"time is just maintaining it."},{"startTime":1277.335,"endTime":1279.225,"body":"But if you're starting"},{"startTime":1277.335,"endTime":1279.225,"body":"as a product manager in a"},{"startTime":1279.225,"endTime":1282.165,"body":"new organization and this"},{"startTime":1279.225,"endTime":1282.165,"body":"level of communication"},{"startTime":1282.165,"endTime":1285.445,"body":"doesn't exist, it's not"},{"startTime":1282.165,"endTime":1285.445,"body":"gonna be 50% of your time."},{"startTime":1285.475,"endTime":1287.305,"body":"No, I got, I gotta, I got"},{"startTime":1285.475,"endTime":1287.305,"body":"a wake up call for you."},{"startTime":1287.305,"endTime":1291.915,"body":"It's gonna be like 90% of your"},{"startTime":1287.305,"endTime":1291.915,"body":"time to set up all of the Email"},{"startTime":1291.915,"endTime":1297.105,"body":"blasts and release announcements"},{"startTime":1291.915,"endTime":1297.105,"body":"and release notes and automated,"},{"startTime":1297.175,"endTime":1299.495,"body":"pipelines or whatever that"},{"startTime":1297.175,"endTime":1299.495,"body":"send this stuff out, until,"},{"startTime":1299.495,"endTime":1300.995,"body":"the cross section is built."},{"startTime":1301.065,"endTime":1303.945,"body":"Where people are starting"},{"startTime":1301.065,"endTime":1303.945,"body":"to unsubscribe from your"},{"startTime":1303.945,"endTime":1306.345,"body":"comments to be like,"},{"startTime":1303.945,"endTime":1306.345,"body":"look, Brian, I get it."},{"startTime":1306.515,"endTime":1307.055,"body":"Enough."},{"startTime":1307.115,"endTime":1310.495,"body":"And then you can pull"},{"startTime":1307.115,"endTime":1310.495,"body":"it back and equalize"},{"startTime":1310.495,"endTime":1311.605,"body":"on a like, okay, cool."},{"startTime":1311.605,"endTime":1314.785,"body":"Everyone understands now I"},{"startTime":1311.605,"endTime":1314.785,"body":"think what you just described"},{"startTime":1314.785,"endTime":1319.185,"body":"is reality, but today you can"},{"startTime":1314.785,"endTime":1319.185,"body":"take advantage of automation."},{"startTime":1319.215,"endTime":1321.285,"body":"There's a lot of tools"},{"startTime":1319.215,"endTime":1321.285,"body":"available to you."},{"startTime":1321.495,"endTime":1324.416,"body":"That can be automatically sent"},{"startTime":1321.495,"endTime":1324.416,"body":"out based on conditions, you"},{"startTime":1324.416,"endTime":1328.096,"body":"can do a lot there to expedite"},{"startTime":1324.416,"endTime":1328.096,"body":"things, but , you have to"},{"startTime":1328.096,"endTime":1329.296,"body":"build the bridges, right?"},{"startTime":1329.596,"endTime":1332.596,"body":"So if you are new product"},{"startTime":1329.596,"endTime":1332.596,"body":"manager, you've got to start"},{"startTime":1332.596,"endTime":1336.096,"body":"there, build a bridge and"},{"startTime":1332.596,"endTime":1336.096,"body":"earn That trust, with your"},{"startTime":1336.096,"endTime":1339.126,"body":"stakeholders, that what"},{"startTime":1336.096,"endTime":1339.126,"body":"you're sending out has merit"},{"startTime":1339.456,"endTime":1342.785,"body":"and they can reach out to"},{"startTime":1339.456,"endTime":1342.785,"body":"you if they have questions."},{"startTime":1343.026,"endTime":1345.816,"body":"If there are enough questions,"},{"startTime":1343.026,"endTime":1345.816,"body":"instead of reaching out to each"},{"startTime":1345.816,"endTime":1349.556,"body":"individual or each quadrant"},{"startTime":1345.816,"endTime":1349.556,"body":"even, you could do a town"},{"startTime":1349.556,"endTime":1352.466,"body":"hall type of meeting where"},{"startTime":1349.556,"endTime":1352.466,"body":"everyone can come, so you're"},{"startTime":1352.466,"endTime":1355.835,"body":"only spending half an hour to"},{"startTime":1352.466,"endTime":1355.835,"body":"an hour across all of them."},{"startTime":1356.045,"endTime":1358.865,"body":"So you could use those"},{"startTime":1356.045,"endTime":1358.865,"body":"kinds of, I guess."},{"startTime":1359.315,"endTime":1361.445,"body":"Techniques for want of"},{"startTime":1359.315,"endTime":1361.445,"body":"a better expression."},{"startTime":1361.505,"endTime":1361.565,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":1361.865,"endTime":1365.035,"body":"To try and expedite things,"},{"startTime":1361.865,"endTime":1365.035,"body":"but when you first go into"},{"startTime":1365.035,"endTime":1367.405,"body":"an organization, you are"},{"startTime":1365.035,"endTime":1367.405,"body":"starting from scratch."},{"startTime":1367.565,"endTime":1369.676,"body":"the bridges have to be built."},{"startTime":1370.036,"endTime":1373.386,"body":"All these bridges don't have"},{"startTime":1370.036,"endTime":1373.386,"body":"to be built with, concrete."},{"startTime":1373.516,"endTime":1376.066,"body":"Some of these are stick"},{"startTime":1373.516,"endTime":1376.066,"body":"bridges, you can get across it."},{"startTime":1376.336,"endTime":1378.586,"body":"Sometimes you don't have to"},{"startTime":1376.336,"endTime":1378.586,"body":"build a bridge, it's a pontoon."},{"startTime":1378.586,"endTime":1381.076,"body":"Throw things on there and"},{"startTime":1378.586,"endTime":1381.076,"body":"shove it across the river."},{"startTime":1381.376,"endTime":1382.036,"body":"There it goes."},{"startTime":1382.236,"endTime":1384.306,"body":"Just because I can't"},{"startTime":1382.236,"endTime":1384.306,"body":"deal with this category"},{"startTime":1384.306,"endTime":1385.356,"body":"without laughing anymore."},{"startTime":1385.436,"endTime":1388.466,"body":"I'm gonna give three London"},{"startTime":1385.436,"endTime":1388.466,"body":"Bridges for stakeholder mapping,"},{"startTime":1388.466,"endTime":1391.496,"body":"like for actually going through"},{"startTime":1388.466,"endTime":1391.496,"body":"listing or arguing Agile."},{"startTime":1391.496,"endTime":1394.526,"body":"Two, only if you give"},{"startTime":1391.496,"endTime":1394.526,"body":"arguing Agile 2 0 1"},{"startTime":1394.796,"endTime":1395.816,"body":"your time and attention."},{"startTime":1395.896,"endTime":1398.536,"body":"Three London Bridges"},{"startTime":1395.896,"endTime":1398.536,"body":"for actually building"},{"startTime":1398.746,"endTime":1400.306,"body":"bridges between yourself."},{"startTime":1400.786,"endTime":1403.246,"body":"And actually it's four,"},{"startTime":1400.786,"endTime":1403.246,"body":"it's four stakeholder"},{"startTime":1403.246,"endTime":1404.146,"body":"management categories."},{"startTime":1404.146,"endTime":1406.156,"body":"So Four London bridges."},{"startTime":1406.326,"endTime":1409.026,"body":"Each one, each for each"},{"startTime":1406.326,"endTime":1409.026,"body":"category, each bridge that"},{"startTime":1409.026,"endTime":1412.476,"body":"you're building between your"},{"startTime":1409.026,"endTime":1412.476,"body":"stakeholder pool and yourself."},{"startTime":1412.845,"endTime":1415.155,"body":"I'm gonna give a London Bridge"},{"startTime":1412.845,"endTime":1415.155,"body":"each, for each category."},{"startTime":1415.365,"endTime":1416.761,"body":"So  four London bridges."},{"startTime":1417.181,"endTime":1418.29,"body":"And God saved the Queen."},{"startTime":1418.591,"endTime":1419.281,"body":"That's King now."},{"startTime":1419.67,"endTime":1419.94,"body":"That's right."},{"startTime":1420.075,"endTime":1422.775,"body":"Oh, oh,  I can't deal"},{"startTime":1420.075,"endTime":1422.775,"body":"with myself right now."},{"startTime":1423.025,"endTime":1426.775,"body":"point number four is that"},{"startTime":1423.025,"endTime":1426.775,"body":"invisible work that you"},{"startTime":1426.775,"endTime":1429.416,"body":"work on as a product manager"},{"startTime":1426.775,"endTime":1429.416,"body":"or development team, you"},{"startTime":1429.416,"endTime":1433.555,"body":"need to spend intentional"},{"startTime":1429.416,"endTime":1433.555,"body":"time making that work turn"},{"startTime":1433.555,"endTime":1435.565,"body":"from invisible to visible."},{"startTime":1435.865,"endTime":1437.395,"body":"Oh boy, why would you do that?"},{"startTime":1437.515,"endTime":1438.325,"body":"Who cares?"},{"startTime":1438.325,"endTime":1439.555,"body":"So that's the other side of it."},{"startTime":1439.615,"endTime":1440.155,"body":"Who cares?"},{"startTime":1440.155,"endTime":1443.215,"body":"As long as I'm being effective,"},{"startTime":1440.155,"endTime":1443.215,"body":"my work speaks for itself."},{"startTime":1443.615,"endTime":1446.465,"body":"why do I have to, toot my horn"},{"startTime":1443.615,"endTime":1446.465,"body":"saying, look what I'm doing"},{"startTime":1446.465,"endTime":1449.915,"body":"here,  nobody cares about what"},{"startTime":1446.465,"endTime":1449.915,"body":"you do to facilitate things."},{"startTime":1450.395,"endTime":1452.015,"body":"Customers don't care about that."},{"startTime":1452.015,"endTime":1454.865,"body":"Business value comes"},{"startTime":1452.015,"endTime":1454.865,"body":"from releasing products."},{"startTime":1455.165,"endTime":1457.835,"body":"Shouldn't that be the"},{"startTime":1455.165,"endTime":1457.835,"body":"measure of success for me?"},{"startTime":1458.135,"endTime":1461.945,"body":"I mean, sometimes working"},{"startTime":1458.135,"endTime":1461.945,"body":"on things that are invisible"},{"startTime":1461.945,"endTime":1463.955,"body":"is enabling other teams."},{"startTime":1464.135,"endTime":1467.135,"body":"And sometimes working on things"},{"startTime":1464.135,"endTime":1467.135,"body":"that are visible, like you are"},{"startTime":1467.315,"endTime":1471.985,"body":"focusing on business outcomes"},{"startTime":1467.315,"endTime":1471.985,"body":"rather than playing turf games."},{"startTime":1472.046,"endTime":1472.376,"body":"You know what I mean?"},{"startTime":1472.376,"endTime":1476.336,"body":"Like winning internal"},{"startTime":1472.376,"endTime":1476.336,"body":"points or scoring yards"},{"startTime":1476.366,"endTime":1477.446,"body":"or whatever internally."},{"startTime":1477.451,"endTime":1480.491,"body":"sometimes you have to be a"},{"startTime":1477.451,"endTime":1480.491,"body":"team player, And take the"},{"startTime":1480.491,"endTime":1483.371,"body":"l for your own team or take"},{"startTime":1480.491,"endTime":1483.371,"body":"a, like if we're doing flow"},{"startTime":1483.371,"endTime":1486.521,"body":"internally, like, oh my team"},{"startTime":1483.371,"endTime":1486.521,"body":"looks like we haven't released"},{"startTime":1486.521,"endTime":1489.751,"body":"anything 'cause I've like"},{"startTime":1486.521,"endTime":1489.751,"body":"seeded two team members time"},{"startTime":1490.021,"endTime":1492.241,"body":"to this other team to get"},{"startTime":1490.021,"endTime":1492.241,"body":"something over the finish line."},{"startTime":1492.241,"endTime":1494.641,"body":"Like, okay, well I look"},{"startTime":1492.241,"endTime":1494.641,"body":"bad for a sprint or two."},{"startTime":1494.791,"endTime":1495.961,"body":"What am I gonna"},{"startTime":1494.791,"endTime":1495.961,"body":"do at that point?"},{"startTime":1495.961,"endTime":1498.061,"body":"am I gonna make a big"},{"startTime":1495.961,"endTime":1498.061,"body":"cheerleading thing to be like,"},{"startTime":1498.121,"endTime":1500.601,"body":"oh, my engineers are helping"},{"startTime":1498.121,"endTime":1500.601,"body":"this other team because the"},{"startTime":1500.601,"endTime":1503.661,"body":"way that's gonna sound, is"},{"startTime":1500.601,"endTime":1503.661,"body":"this other team is terrible"},{"startTime":1503.931,"endTime":1505.281,"body":"and I had to bail 'em out."},{"startTime":1505.431,"endTime":1507.476,"body":"That's what it's gonna sound"},{"startTime":1505.431,"endTime":1507.476,"body":"like, but,  what we're saying"},{"startTime":1507.476,"endTime":1510.566,"body":"here is when you do that, you"},{"startTime":1507.476,"endTime":1510.566,"body":"need to make that visible."},{"startTime":1510.746,"endTime":1514.636,"body":"So management can see"},{"startTime":1510.746,"endTime":1514.636,"body":"only because Brian's team"},{"startTime":1514.936,"endTime":1516.346,"body":"helped this other team"},{"startTime":1516.706,"endTime":1518.836,"body":"was it possible for them to"},{"startTime":1516.706,"endTime":1518.836,"body":"be successful because it's"},{"startTime":1518.836,"endTime":1520.101,"body":"so incompetent, like Yeah."},{"startTime":1520.106,"endTime":1520.306,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":1520.306,"endTime":1522.586,"body":"That's, we just, it just"},{"startTime":1520.306,"endTime":1522.586,"body":"sounds bad in my head."},{"startTime":1522.621,"endTime":1522.846,"body":"it does."},{"startTime":1522.846,"endTime":1525.516,"body":"And that's great if you are as a"},{"startTime":1522.846,"endTime":1525.516,"body":"product manager or  playing for"},{"startTime":1525.516,"endTime":1528.266,"body":"brownie points, it's not for the"},{"startTime":1525.516,"endTime":1528.266,"body":"greater good at the end of the"},{"startTime":1528.266,"endTime":1531.866,"body":"day and senior leadership aren't"},{"startTime":1528.266,"endTime":1531.866,"body":"even looking at this stuff."},{"startTime":1532.166,"endTime":1533.336,"body":"So it doesn't matter."},{"startTime":1533.336,"endTime":1534.956,"body":"You can jump up and"},{"startTime":1533.336,"endTime":1534.956,"body":"down all you want."},{"startTime":1534.956,"endTime":1535.796,"body":"No one's listening."},{"startTime":1535.806,"endTime":1537.846,"body":"They only care about"},{"startTime":1535.806,"endTime":1537.846,"body":"product success."},{"startTime":1537.876,"endTime":1538.236,"body":"Right?"},{"startTime":1538.686,"endTime":1540.756,"body":"So that really is your"},{"startTime":1538.686,"endTime":1540.756,"body":"measure of success."},{"startTime":1540.756,"endTime":1543.576,"body":"If you are a team player"},{"startTime":1540.756,"endTime":1543.576,"body":"and you're making your"},{"startTime":1543.576,"endTime":1547.156,"body":"teams better that's helping"},{"startTime":1543.576,"endTime":1547.156,"body":"the team mature, right?"},{"startTime":1547.516,"endTime":1549.886,"body":"It's not directly"},{"startTime":1547.516,"endTime":1549.886,"body":"contributing to the product."},{"startTime":1549.946,"endTime":1553.396,"body":"Of course it is indirectly, but"},{"startTime":1549.946,"endTime":1553.396,"body":"no one sees that, So should you"},{"startTime":1553.396,"endTime":1557.266,"body":"make a big deal about that or"},{"startTime":1553.396,"endTime":1557.266,"body":"just say, this is what I do?"},{"startTime":1557.666,"endTime":1560.676,"body":"I'm gonna flip the tables"},{"startTime":1557.666,"endTime":1560.676,"body":"on you and pivot to the for"},{"startTime":1560.696,"endTime":1563.826,"body":"category and say like, what if"},{"startTime":1560.696,"endTime":1563.826,"body":"you're a product manager who"},{"startTime":1563.826,"endTime":1566.786,"body":"understands org design or if"},{"startTime":1563.826,"endTime":1566.786,"body":"You have a particularly strong"},{"startTime":1566.786,"endTime":1569.936,"body":"scrum master on your team and"},{"startTime":1566.786,"endTime":1569.936,"body":"you reach out to help another,"},{"startTime":1569.936,"endTime":1574.136,"body":"team, like, why should you not"},{"startTime":1569.936,"endTime":1574.136,"body":"promote that to leadership to"},{"startTime":1574.136,"endTime":1578.606,"body":"say like, Hey, only because we"},{"startTime":1574.136,"endTime":1578.606,"body":"proactively knocked down all"},{"startTime":1578.606,"endTime":1582.776,"body":"these cross team dependencies,"},{"startTime":1578.606,"endTime":1582.776,"body":"or maybe we did this cross team"},{"startTime":1582.776,"endTime":1584.246,"body":"architecture type of thing."},{"startTime":1584.296,"endTime":1587.986,"body":"only because we did that"},{"startTime":1584.296,"endTime":1587.986,"body":"are we able to now in the"},{"startTime":1587.986,"endTime":1591.736,"body":"next quarter really fly and"},{"startTime":1587.986,"endTime":1591.736,"body":"deliver these things that the"},{"startTime":1591.736,"endTime":1593.116,"body":"customers really care about,"},{"startTime":1593.166,"endTime":1595.956,"body":"it's super easy to defend"},{"startTime":1593.166,"endTime":1595.956,"body":"this category for me to say"},{"startTime":1596.086,"endTime":1599.626,"body":"listen, results speak louder"},{"startTime":1596.086,"endTime":1599.626,"body":"than any kind of release"},{"startTime":1599.626,"endTime":1602.836,"body":"announcement or demo when you"},{"startTime":1599.626,"endTime":1602.836,"body":"can show your executives, Hey,"},{"startTime":1603.126,"endTime":1606.486,"body":"because I proactively made"},{"startTime":1603.126,"endTime":1606.486,"body":"this decision to knock down"},{"startTime":1606.486,"endTime":1607.596,"body":"this technical debt thing."},{"startTime":1607.896,"endTime":1612.066,"body":"Now we're able to do x y and Z"},{"startTime":1607.896,"endTime":1612.066,"body":"feature and bring in revenue."},{"startTime":1612.226,"endTime":1615.076,"body":"if we didn't do that two months"},{"startTime":1612.226,"endTime":1615.076,"body":"ago, three months ago when"},{"startTime":1615.076,"endTime":1616.336,"body":"none of y'all believed in it."},{"startTime":1616.636,"endTime":1618.046,"body":"But I pushed through anyway."},{"startTime":1618.116,"endTime":1620.876,"body":"To hit my ROI and took it"},{"startTime":1618.116,"endTime":1620.876,"body":"to my roadmap I deal with"},{"startTime":1620.876,"endTime":1622.976,"body":"my did it with my team,"},{"startTime":1620.876,"endTime":1622.976,"body":"because none of the other"},{"startTime":1622.976,"endTime":1624.356,"body":"teams wanted to absorb it."},{"startTime":1624.836,"endTime":1628.586,"body":"Now all of the teams and all the"},{"startTime":1624.836,"endTime":1628.586,"body":"products are able to accelerate."},{"startTime":1628.746,"endTime":1631.446,"body":"I feel like I'm being combative"},{"startTime":1628.746,"endTime":1631.446,"body":"to all the decision makers now,"},{"startTime":1631.446,"endTime":1636.366,"body":"saying, listen, trust that I"},{"startTime":1631.446,"endTime":1636.366,"body":"know when it's time to put time."},{"startTime":1636.666,"endTime":1640.535,"body":"Into technical debt"},{"startTime":1636.666,"endTime":1640.535,"body":"reduction and punching"},{"startTime":1640.535,"endTime":1641.915,"body":"us through to the future."},{"startTime":1642.135,"endTime":1645.376,"body":"developing enabling features"},{"startTime":1642.135,"endTime":1645.376,"body":"that  help many teams."},{"startTime":1645.405,"endTime":1649.276,"body":"Those kind of like back of"},{"startTime":1645.405,"endTime":1649.276,"body":"the house things like they are"},{"startTime":1649.515,"endTime":1654.466,"body":"you, the product manager being"},{"startTime":1649.515,"endTime":1654.466,"body":"effective over communication."},{"startTime":1654.616,"endTime":1657.466,"body":"Lots of teams need that"},{"startTime":1654.616,"endTime":1657.466,"body":"like every team needs that."},{"startTime":1657.776,"endTime":1659.666,"body":"here we're saying if the"},{"startTime":1657.776,"endTime":1659.666,"body":"majority of the time is spent"},{"startTime":1659.666,"endTime":1662.846,"body":"communicating, that is less"},{"startTime":1659.666,"endTime":1662.846,"body":"time away from doing things"},{"startTime":1662.846,"endTime":1664.076,"body":"that actually make an impact."},{"startTime":1664.076,"endTime":1665.606,"body":"that's my arguing"},{"startTime":1664.076,"endTime":1665.606,"body":"point in this category."},{"startTime":1665.656,"endTime":1667.816,"body":"I'm gonna take briefly the"},{"startTime":1665.656,"endTime":1667.816,"body":"other side, even though I do"},{"startTime":1667.816,"endTime":1669.436,"body":"agree with you, like please."},{"startTime":1669.436,"endTime":1670.995,"body":"I already know the other"},{"startTime":1669.436,"endTime":1670.995,"body":"side is gonna be like,"},{"startTime":1670.995,"endTime":1671.835,"body":"well, you can do that."},{"startTime":1671.835,"endTime":1673.275,"body":"And also communicate too."},{"startTime":1673.365,"endTime":1675.015,"body":"And also work 70 hours."},{"startTime":1675.015,"endTime":1676.965,"body":"That's where we're gonna"},{"startTime":1675.015,"endTime":1676.965,"body":"end up as a product manager."},{"startTime":1676.965,"endTime":1679.605,"body":"For me, that's where I'm gonna"},{"startTime":1676.965,"endTime":1679.605,"body":"end up is like, well, I gotta"},{"startTime":1679.605,"endTime":1682.215,"body":"do that and I gotta communicate"},{"startTime":1679.605,"endTime":1682.215,"body":"it and I gotta get ready for"},{"startTime":1682.215,"endTime":1685.015,"body":"the future I'm gonna end up"},{"startTime":1682.215,"endTime":1685.015,"body":"working 65 hours this week."},{"startTime":1685.165,"endTime":1686.395,"body":"that's what it really takes."},{"startTime":1686.395,"endTime":1686.665,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":1686.67,"endTime":1687.101,"body":"Unfortunately, right."},{"startTime":1687.101,"endTime":1688.405,"body":"To do all of this, that's true."},{"startTime":1688.595,"endTime":1691.385,"body":"Also, senior leadership"},{"startTime":1688.595,"endTime":1691.385,"body":"only care for results."},{"startTime":1691.385,"endTime":1693.545,"body":"They don't care about"},{"startTime":1691.385,"endTime":1693.545,"body":"operational difficulties."},{"startTime":1693.705,"endTime":1697.055,"body":"as a cynic if I were a senior"},{"startTime":1693.705,"endTime":1697.055,"body":"leader and he came to me and"},{"startTime":1697.055,"endTime":1700.265,"body":"said, listen, I knocked down all"},{"startTime":1697.055,"endTime":1700.265,"body":"these things, reduce technical"},{"startTime":1700.265,"endTime":1701.465,"body":"debt, et cetera, et cetera."},{"startTime":1701.765,"endTime":1703.685,"body":"A cynic might say, great."},{"startTime":1703.805,"endTime":1705.605,"body":"Why don't you do this"},{"startTime":1703.805,"endTime":1705.605,"body":"sooner, three months ago?"},{"startTime":1705.665,"endTime":1705.845,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":1706.025,"endTime":1706.355,"body":"Right."},{"startTime":1706.445,"endTime":1708.705,"body":"So it's like you can't catch a"},{"startTime":1706.445,"endTime":1708.705,"body":"break because that's all they"},{"startTime":1708.705,"endTime":1710.055,"body":"care about is the end result."},{"startTime":1710.445,"endTime":1711.975,"body":"So that's the other"},{"startTime":1710.445,"endTime":1711.975,"body":"side of this, right?"},{"startTime":1711.975,"endTime":1712.065,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":1712.365,"endTime":1714.345,"body":"I think there's a medium"},{"startTime":1712.365,"endTime":1714.345,"body":"in there somewhere, like"},{"startTime":1714.345,"endTime":1717.945,"body":"the messaging to senior"},{"startTime":1714.345,"endTime":1717.945,"body":"leadership is, we did this"},{"startTime":1717.945,"endTime":1720.825,"body":"because, but don't dwell on"},{"startTime":1717.945,"endTime":1720.825,"body":"that because thing, right."},{"startTime":1721.105,"endTime":1721.775,"body":"Just move on."},{"startTime":1721.775,"endTime":1722.175,"body":"Mm-hmm."},{"startTime":1722.255,"endTime":1725.48,"body":"Just move on and then use"},{"startTime":1722.255,"endTime":1725.48,"body":"the success that you have"},{"startTime":1725.51,"endTime":1727.22,"body":"internally below that level."},{"startTime":1727.55,"endTime":1730.19,"body":"To evangelize, here's how"},{"startTime":1727.55,"endTime":1730.19,"body":"we we're solving these"},{"startTime":1730.19,"endTime":1732.2,"body":"things so other people"},{"startTime":1730.19,"endTime":1732.2,"body":"can benefit from it."},{"startTime":1732.25,"endTime":1735.67,"body":"the arguing case of like, senior"},{"startTime":1732.25,"endTime":1735.67,"body":"leaders only care about results."},{"startTime":1735.67,"endTime":1738.72,"body":"they don't necessarily care"},{"startTime":1735.67,"endTime":1738.72,"body":"about how hard it was to get,"},{"startTime":1738.78,"endTime":1742.19,"body":"or how many obstacles you"},{"startTime":1738.78,"endTime":1742.19,"body":"overcame to get to that point."},{"startTime":1742.49,"endTime":1745.49,"body":"Doesn't that argue for"},{"startTime":1742.49,"endTime":1745.49,"body":"my side where I'm saying"},{"startTime":1745.49,"endTime":1749.09,"body":"making the, the, the, the"},{"startTime":1745.49,"endTime":1749.09,"body":"value of this hidden work."},{"startTime":1749.39,"endTime":1751.96,"body":"Like making it like"},{"startTime":1749.39,"endTime":1751.96,"body":"shining a light on the"},{"startTime":1751.96,"endTime":1753.73,"body":"value of this hidden mark."},{"startTime":1754.03,"endTime":1756.34,"body":"Does it though, your"},{"startTime":1754.03,"endTime":1756.34,"body":"peers may care about that."},{"startTime":1756.37,"endTime":1759.01,"body":". But senior leadership, do"},{"startTime":1756.37,"endTime":1759.01,"body":"they have time for all that"},{"startTime":1759.49,"endTime":1760.81,"body":"organizational dysfunction?"},{"startTime":1761.05,"endTime":1763.18,"body":"They don't wanna know how"},{"startTime":1761.05,"endTime":1763.18,"body":"the sausage is made, it's"},{"startTime":1763.18,"endTime":1765.46,"body":"just how many thousands"},{"startTime":1763.18,"endTime":1765.46,"body":"of sausages have you made."},{"startTime":1765.46,"endTime":1765.64,"body":"Right."},{"startTime":1765.82,"endTime":1766.15,"body":"right."},{"startTime":1766.15,"endTime":1767.245,"body":"and why haven't you"},{"startTime":1766.15,"endTime":1767.245,"body":"raised the price?"},{"startTime":1767.545,"endTime":1768.965,"body":"Well, I think we're"},{"startTime":1767.545,"endTime":1768.965,"body":"done with this category."},{"startTime":1768.965,"endTime":1771.035,"body":"I think we both kind of settled"},{"startTime":1768.965,"endTime":1771.035,"body":"in the against category."},{"startTime":1771.485,"endTime":1771.725,"body":"We did."},{"startTime":1771.725,"endTime":1775.335,"body":"You need to make work visible,"},{"startTime":1771.725,"endTime":1775.335,"body":"but the easiest way to make"},{"startTime":1775.335,"endTime":1778.575,"body":"the work visible is to just"},{"startTime":1775.335,"endTime":1778.575,"body":"do the work and be effective."},{"startTime":1778.575,"endTime":1778.965,"body":"Right."},{"startTime":1779.545,"endTime":1781.495,"body":"I guess my problem in"},{"startTime":1779.545,"endTime":1781.495,"body":"this category is there"},{"startTime":1781.495,"endTime":1785.545,"body":"are people that are"},{"startTime":1781.495,"endTime":1785.545,"body":"ineffective but communicate"},{"startTime":1785.995,"endTime":1788.395,"body":"regularly and effectively."},{"startTime":1788.545,"endTime":1790.375,"body":"those are the people that get"},{"startTime":1788.545,"endTime":1790.375,"body":"promoted versus the people"},{"startTime":1790.375,"endTime":1792.025,"body":"that inefficiently communicate."},{"startTime":1792.205,"endTime":1796.135,"body":"But slowly get work done"},{"startTime":1792.205,"endTime":1796.135,"body":"that's like the boring"},{"startTime":1796.135,"endTime":1799.015,"body":"sausage making process that"},{"startTime":1796.135,"endTime":1799.015,"body":"consistently makes sausage."},{"startTime":1799.135,"endTime":1799.375,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":1799.675,"endTime":1801.025,"body":"And,  that doesn't"},{"startTime":1799.675,"endTime":1801.025,"body":"get immediate."},{"startTime":1801.025,"endTime":1802.405,"body":"Like you're right, you're"},{"startTime":1801.025,"endTime":1802.405,"body":"not getting clicks on"},{"startTime":1802.405,"endTime":1803.215,"body":"the internet for that."},{"startTime":1803.325,"endTime":1804.015,"body":"That's absolutely right."},{"startTime":1804.225,"endTime":1806.555,"body":"But the people promoting"},{"startTime":1804.225,"endTime":1806.555,"body":"it,  what you outlined."},{"startTime":1806.585,"endTime":1806.795,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":1807.275,"endTime":1807.665,"body":"I don't know."},{"startTime":1807.665,"endTime":1810.905,"body":"there's two sausages against"},{"startTime":1807.665,"endTime":1810.905,"body":"it and it's hard to give"},{"startTime":1810.905,"endTime":1812.075,"body":"any points in this category."},{"startTime":1812.075,"endTime":1814.775,"body":"May I'll give one sausage,"},{"startTime":1812.075,"endTime":1814.775,"body":"one sausage, a burnt sausage."},{"startTime":1815.165,"endTime":1816.905,"body":"Oh, it's, I, lemme"},{"startTime":1815.165,"endTime":1816.905,"body":"put lines on it."},{"startTime":1816.905,"endTime":1817.805,"body":"That way we know it's burnt."},{"startTime":1818.105,"endTime":1819.425,"body":"I mean, it's gonna"},{"startTime":1818.105,"endTime":1819.425,"body":"get eaten either way."},{"startTime":1819.425,"endTime":1821.585,"body":"with sauerkraut and"},{"startTime":1819.425,"endTime":1821.585,"body":"mustard on top of it."},{"startTime":1821.915,"endTime":1823.445,"body":"You can't tell if"},{"startTime":1821.915,"endTime":1823.445,"body":"it's burnt or not."},{"startTime":1823.45,"endTime":1823.89,"body":"that's what I'm saying."},{"startTime":1824.19,"endTime":1824.46,"body":"That's right."},{"startTime":1824.46,"endTime":1827.07,"body":"I can tell how I eat mys"},{"startTime":1824.46,"endTime":1827.07,"body":"sauerkraut and mustard."},{"startTime":1827.37,"endTime":1828.18,"body":"It's a big sausage."},{"startTime":1828.18,"endTime":1829.05,"body":"I wrote it on the paper."},{"startTime":1829.1,"endTime":1830.63,"body":"I'm gonna stop talking"},{"startTime":1829.1,"endTime":1830.63,"body":"about sausage now."},{"startTime":1830.83,"endTime":1834.7,"body":"Let's talk about the"},{"startTime":1830.83,"endTime":1834.7,"body":"experience recognition gap."},{"startTime":1835.0,"endTime":1835.781,"body":"Oh boy."},{"startTime":1835.95,"endTime":1838.26,"body":"I want to talk to you about"},{"startTime":1835.95,"endTime":1838.26,"body":"another category, which I"},{"startTime":1838.26,"endTime":1839.731,"body":"find real close in my heart."},{"startTime":1840.03,"endTime":1840.331,"body":"Okay."},{"startTime":1840.36,"endTime":1845.4,"body":"And the category, I, I call it"},{"startTime":1840.36,"endTime":1845.4,"body":"the prove it first category."},{"startTime":1845.641,"endTime":1846.091,"body":"Oh, yeah."},{"startTime":1846.146,"endTime":1847.856,"body":"And here's the way"},{"startTime":1846.146,"endTime":1847.856,"body":"this category works."},{"startTime":1847.906,"endTime":1850.036,"body":"I'll let you know what"},{"startTime":1847.906,"endTime":1850.036,"body":"side I'm on with the way"},{"startTime":1850.036,"endTime":1850.966,"body":"I describe this category."},{"startTime":1851.206,"endTime":1852.406,"body":"And the category"},{"startTime":1851.206,"endTime":1852.406,"body":"works like this."},{"startTime":1852.406,"endTime":1857.526,"body":"I used to work for A CEO"},{"startTime":1852.406,"endTime":1857.526,"body":"and his, his I'm, I'm, I'm"},{"startTime":1857.526,"endTime":1859.716,"body":"broadcasting a potential"},{"startTime":1857.526,"endTime":1859.716,"body":"future podcast right now."},{"startTime":1859.776,"endTime":1864.636,"body":"His viewpoint was a very,"},{"startTime":1859.776,"endTime":1864.636,"body":"who Move My Cheese Viewpoint."},{"startTime":1864.761,"endTime":1865.101,"body":"Oh yeah."},{"startTime":1865.101,"endTime":1868.926,"body":"And it was basically, if you"},{"startTime":1865.101,"endTime":1868.926,"body":"want a promotion, you need to"},{"startTime":1869.016,"endTime":1872.436,"body":"start working that job that"},{"startTime":1869.016,"endTime":1872.436,"body":"you wanna be promoted into."},{"startTime":1872.736,"endTime":1875.946,"body":"For like many months, right?"},{"startTime":1875.976,"endTime":1877.836,"body":"If not years, many months."},{"startTime":1878.196,"endTime":1881.676,"body":"And when you've proven you can"},{"startTime":1878.196,"endTime":1881.676,"body":"do it well in that job, and"},{"startTime":1881.676,"endTime":1885.066,"body":"you've been working in that job"},{"startTime":1881.676,"endTime":1885.066,"body":"for a while, only then will the"},{"startTime":1885.066,"endTime":1889.806,"body":"executives choose  to be the"},{"startTime":1885.066,"endTime":1889.806,"body":"queen with the sword and bestow"},{"startTime":1889.806,"endTime":1891.666,"body":"on you the rank of that job."},{"startTime":1891.666,"endTime":1891.826,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":1891.931,"endTime":1897.271,"body":"And that, that is the experience"},{"startTime":1891.931,"endTime":1897.271,"body":"slash recognition gap."},{"startTime":1897.571,"endTime":1901.291,"body":"So this is one way"},{"startTime":1897.571,"endTime":1901.291,"body":"organizations can get real"},{"startTime":1901.291,"endTime":1905.581,"body":"good work out of people, but"},{"startTime":1901.291,"endTime":1905.581,"body":"not pay them as much, right?"},{"startTime":1905.581,"endTime":1908.161,"body":"Because you're striving to"},{"startTime":1905.581,"endTime":1908.161,"body":"get that promotions, you're"},{"startTime":1908.161,"endTime":1909.511,"body":"gonna do whatever it takes."},{"startTime":1909.811,"endTime":1911.941,"body":"And for a duration they deem."},{"startTime":1912.241,"endTime":1914.311,"body":"Is the price to pay."},{"startTime":1914.361,"endTime":1918.151,"body":"So, you have to put in the"},{"startTime":1914.361,"endTime":1918.151,"body":"time, Brian, put in a year,"},{"startTime":1918.151,"endTime":1921.781,"body":"two years, before you're"},{"startTime":1918.151,"endTime":1921.781,"body":"eligible to be promoted."},{"startTime":1922.111,"endTime":1924.541,"body":"Unfortunately, this is"},{"startTime":1922.111,"endTime":1924.541,"body":"also quite prevalent out"},{"startTime":1924.541,"endTime":1927.841,"body":"there, especially in larger"},{"startTime":1924.541,"endTime":1927.841,"body":"companies where everybody's"},{"startTime":1927.841,"endTime":1931.491,"body":"like going after that, you"},{"startTime":1927.841,"endTime":1931.491,"body":"know promotion in a cutthroat"},{"startTime":1931.491,"endTime":1934.401,"body":"environment, no one gets"},{"startTime":1931.491,"endTime":1934.401,"body":"promoted for a long time,"},{"startTime":1934.581,"endTime":1936.051,"body":"but everyone's working hard."},{"startTime":1936.201,"endTime":1936.561,"body":"Sorry."},{"startTime":1936.561,"endTime":1939.021,"body":"I'm looking for the points"},{"startTime":1936.561,"endTime":1939.021,"body":"and I can't find anything."},{"startTime":1939.221,"endTime":1942.041,"body":"Leadership qualities are"},{"startTime":1939.221,"endTime":1942.041,"body":"only evident once you're"},{"startTime":1942.041,"endTime":1943.031,"body":"doing the position."},{"startTime":1943.141,"endTime":1945.166,"body":"So the other side, right?"},{"startTime":1945.436,"endTime":1948.296,"body":"Where perhaps the grass"},{"startTime":1945.436,"endTime":1948.296,"body":"is greener, is you go play"},{"startTime":1948.296,"endTime":1949.856,"body":"golf with those leaders."},{"startTime":1949.916,"endTime":1952.376,"body":"You don't have to"},{"startTime":1949.916,"endTime":1952.376,"body":"necessarily do that work."},{"startTime":1952.406,"endTime":1954.746,"body":"none of this category"},{"startTime":1952.406,"endTime":1954.746,"body":"applies when you play golf"},{"startTime":1954.746,"endTime":1955.281,"body":"with the That's right."},{"startTime":1955.406,"endTime":1957.716,"body":"That's the nice thing about"},{"startTime":1955.406,"endTime":1957.716,"body":"this category is like the idea"},{"startTime":1957.716,"endTime":1960.196,"body":"that, oh, you gotta be doing"},{"startTime":1957.716,"endTime":1960.196,"body":"the job before we promote"},{"startTime":1960.196,"endTime":1962.806,"body":"you into it, and you've gotta"},{"startTime":1960.196,"endTime":1962.806,"body":"be proving yourself , like"},{"startTime":1962.916,"endTime":1964.716,"body":"the chief product officer."},{"startTime":1965.016,"endTime":1968.846,"body":"Who is like a sales guy that,"},{"startTime":1965.016,"endTime":1968.846,"body":"has sold the contractor to"},{"startTime":1968.976,"endTime":1971.756,"body":"Getting promoted to the, product"},{"startTime":1968.976,"endTime":1971.756,"body":"thing, you know, to make sure"},{"startTime":1971.756,"endTime":1973.166,"body":"we're building the quote right."},{"startTime":1973.166,"endTime":1976.606,"body":"Thing that our customers"},{"startTime":1973.166,"endTime":1976.606,"body":"really need who has no product"},{"startTime":1976.606,"endTime":1978.376,"body":"management experience, , the"},{"startTime":1976.606,"endTime":1978.376,"body":"problem with this category"},{"startTime":1978.376,"endTime":1980.656,"body":"and why this category gets no"},{"startTime":1978.376,"endTime":1980.656,"body":"points with me, and there's"},{"startTime":1980.656,"endTime":1983.236,"body":"absolutely no way you can"},{"startTime":1980.656,"endTime":1983.236,"body":"convince me that this is a"},{"startTime":1983.236,"endTime":1985.816,"body":"real thing is because there"},{"startTime":1983.236,"endTime":1985.816,"body":"are people out there that get"},{"startTime":1985.816,"endTime":1987.796,"body":"a job with no qualifications."},{"startTime":1987.856,"endTime":1990.306,"body":"Absolutely all too"},{"startTime":1987.856,"endTime":1990.306,"body":"common, unfortunately."},{"startTime":1990.306,"endTime":1990.516,"body":"Right?"},{"startTime":1990.516,"endTime":1990.576,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":1990.576,"endTime":1992.976,"body":"We've seen that, especially in"},{"startTime":1990.576,"endTime":1992.976,"body":"the product management field."},{"startTime":1992.976,"endTime":1994.596,"body":", I talk about this all"},{"startTime":1992.976,"endTime":1994.596,"body":"the time in the podcast."},{"startTime":1994.596,"endTime":1997.026,"body":"I'm not gonna go out on a"},{"startTime":1994.596,"endTime":1997.026,"body":"limb and say every CPO in the"},{"startTime":1997.026,"endTime":2000.901,"body":"world, but I will say most"},{"startTime":1997.026,"endTime":2000.901,"body":"of them, a lot of CPOs never"},{"startTime":2000.901,"endTime":2001.951,"body":"managed the product man."},{"startTime":2002.071,"endTime":2004.741,"body":"So, so against like three CPOs."},{"startTime":2005.041,"endTime":2006.361,"body":"And an R 2D two over there."},{"startTime":2006.361,"endTime":2008.791,"body":"And and a frowny"},{"startTime":2006.361,"endTime":2008.791,"body":"face, a R 2D two."},{"startTime":2009.091,"endTime":2009.631,"body":"Wait, wait."},{"startTime":2009.931,"endTime":2011.611,"body":"I wrote, did you"},{"startTime":2009.931,"endTime":2011.611,"body":"see what I wrote?"},{"startTime":2011.611,"endTime":2015.721,"body":"I wrote two DI like RR"},{"startTime":2011.611,"endTime":2015.721,"body":"2D two, there you go."},{"startTime":2016.021,"endTime":2018.021,"body":"That company is just"},{"startTime":2016.021,"endTime":2018.021,"body":"disguise this under,"},{"startTime":2018.081,"endTime":2018.651,"body":"what do they call it?"},{"startTime":2018.651,"endTime":2019.281,"body":"Probation."},{"startTime":2019.281,"endTime":2020.271,"body":"You're on probation."},{"startTime":2020.301,"endTime":2021.831,"body":"I thought you were"},{"startTime":2020.301,"endTime":2021.831,"body":"gonna say exploitation."},{"startTime":2021.861,"endTime":2022.371,"body":"Well that too."},{"startTime":2022.491,"endTime":2022.701,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":2022.701,"endTime":2023.061,"body":"My bad."},{"startTime":2023.221,"endTime":2025.771,"body":"Narrative leadership versus"},{"startTime":2023.221,"endTime":2025.771,"body":"technical excellence."},{"startTime":2025.871,"endTime":2026.501,"body":"this is a good one."},{"startTime":2026.551,"endTime":2028.861,"body":"this category,"},{"startTime":2026.551,"endTime":2028.861,"body":"narrative leadership."},{"startTime":2029.161,"endTime":2030.601,"body":"Versus technical excellence."},{"startTime":2030.731,"endTime":2033.851,"body":"separates the seniors"},{"startTime":2030.731,"endTime":2033.851,"body":"from the juniors when it"},{"startTime":2033.851,"endTime":2035.651,"body":"comes to the PM realm."},{"startTime":2035.731,"endTime":2038.38,"body":"What it means is"},{"startTime":2035.731,"endTime":2038.38,"body":"technical excellence."},{"startTime":2038.56,"endTime":2041.411,"body":"What it really means is like"},{"startTime":2038.56,"endTime":2041.411,"body":"ex like the execution, the"},{"startTime":2041.411,"endTime":2042.641,"body":"excellence of execution."},{"startTime":2042.641,"endTime":2044.261,"body":"I don't wanna be like the"},{"startTime":2042.641,"endTime":2044.261,"body":"hitman over here, , yeah."},{"startTime":2044.321,"endTime":2047.251,"body":"The, the, it's, that's"},{"startTime":2044.321,"endTime":2047.251,"body":"the first, pro wrestling"},{"startTime":2047.251,"endTime":2048.271,"body":"Brett Hart reference."},{"startTime":2048.271,"endTime":2048.661,"body":"I'm wanna make!"},{"startTime":2048.711,"endTime":2052.641,"body":"What it means is your ability"},{"startTime":2048.711,"endTime":2052.641,"body":"to tell a good story versus"},{"startTime":2052.641,"endTime":2055.851,"body":"your ability to execute as"},{"startTime":2052.641,"endTime":2055.851,"body":"a person that works with"},{"startTime":2055.851,"endTime":2056.81,"body":"a development team Yep."},{"startTime":2057.08,"endTime":2057.98,"body":"Into production."},{"startTime":2058.031,"endTime":2061.461,"body":"So I guess it's like"},{"startTime":2058.031,"endTime":2061.461,"body":"storyteller versus operator is"},{"startTime":2061.461,"endTime":2062.811,"body":"really what the category is."},{"startTime":2063.011,"endTime":2064.331,"body":"I'm not really sure."},{"startTime":2064.361,"endTime":2066.431,"body":"I'm willing to have"},{"startTime":2064.361,"endTime":2066.431,"body":"my mind changed in"},{"startTime":2066.431,"endTime":2067.451,"body":"this category because."},{"startTime":2067.711,"endTime":2070.621,"body":"I'm not sure which side"},{"startTime":2067.711,"endTime":2070.621,"body":"I'm on with this one."},{"startTime":2070.621,"endTime":2076.111,"body":"So your ability to craft"},{"startTime":2070.621,"endTime":2076.111,"body":"a narrative and then to"},{"startTime":2076.111,"endTime":2078.061,"body":"spread that narrative"},{"startTime":2076.111,"endTime":2078.061,"body":"to leadership, right?"},{"startTime":2078.061,"endTime":2078.151,"body":"Sure."},{"startTime":2078.211,"endTime":2081.261,"body":"And then to everybody else,"},{"startTime":2078.211,"endTime":2081.261,"body":"that buy-in for that narrative"},{"startTime":2081.531,"endTime":2086.781,"body":"versus your technical and"},{"startTime":2081.531,"endTime":2086.781,"body":"analytical excellence."},{"startTime":2086.781,"endTime":2088.551,"body":"Meaning like looking in data."},{"startTime":2088.671,"endTime":2091.281,"body":"This category is becoming"},{"startTime":2088.671,"endTime":2091.281,"body":"the intuition versus"},{"startTime":2091.281,"endTime":2093.141,"body":"evidence category, right?"},{"startTime":2093.291,"endTime":2094.581,"body":"I just know."},{"startTime":2094.881,"endTime":2096.231,"body":"What they're gonna say."},{"startTime":2096.261,"endTime":2096.561,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":2096.811,"endTime":2099.061,"body":"that's starting to"},{"startTime":2096.811,"endTime":2099.061,"body":"become this category."},{"startTime":2099.086,"endTime":2099.535,"body":"it is."},{"startTime":2099.535,"endTime":2102.895,"body":"But I think this is slightly"},{"startTime":2099.535,"endTime":2102.895,"body":"different in that people that"},{"startTime":2102.895,"endTime":2108.645,"body":"have that skill to weave and"},{"startTime":2102.895,"endTime":2108.645,"body":"craft these stories from, what"},{"startTime":2108.645,"endTime":2110.836,"body":"the customer's requirements"},{"startTime":2108.645,"endTime":2110.836,"body":"are, their needs, their"},{"startTime":2110.836,"endTime":2114.31,"body":"wishes, their desires those"},{"startTime":2110.836,"endTime":2114.31,"body":"skills are special, right?"},{"startTime":2114.435,"endTime":2114.555,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":2114.775,"endTime":2118.045,"body":"People listen to that and"},{"startTime":2114.775,"endTime":2118.045,"body":"you can come up with all"},{"startTime":2118.045,"endTime":2120.775,"body":"kinds of charts and point to"},{"startTime":2118.045,"endTime":2120.775,"body":"those on the other side of"},{"startTime":2120.775,"endTime":2122.755,"body":"the equation be data driven."},{"startTime":2122.755,"endTime":2123.145,"body":"Right?"},{"startTime":2123.235,"endTime":2123.385,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":2123.685,"endTime":2126.356,"body":"That's great because , you"},{"startTime":2123.685,"endTime":2126.356,"body":"are not just coming out with"},{"startTime":2126.595,"endTime":2131.006,"body":"opinions, you are supplanting"},{"startTime":2126.595,"endTime":2131.006,"body":"your stance, With actual data."},{"startTime":2131.006,"endTime":2131.326,"body":"Mm-hmm."},{"startTime":2131.426,"endTime":2134.011,"body":"But I don't think that"},{"startTime":2131.426,"endTime":2134.011,"body":"trumps the other side"},{"startTime":2134.311,"endTime":2135.181,"body":"tell story really?"},{"startTime":2135.211,"endTime":2135.421,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":2135.421,"endTime":2136.981,"body":"I don't think it"},{"startTime":2135.421,"endTime":2136.981,"body":"trumps that because."},{"startTime":2137.326,"endTime":2139.996,"body":"You get engagement"},{"startTime":2137.326,"endTime":2139.996,"body":"upfront from hearing"},{"startTime":2139.996,"endTime":2141.316,"body":"initially what's going on."},{"startTime":2141.316,"endTime":2144.226,"body":"So that typical thing that"},{"startTime":2141.316,"endTime":2144.226,"body":"people say,  what's your"},{"startTime":2144.226,"endTime":2145.996,"body":"elevator speech, right?"},{"startTime":2146.296,"endTime":2148.756,"body":"If you're talking to"},{"startTime":2146.296,"endTime":2148.756,"body":"leadership and you have a"},{"startTime":2148.756,"endTime":2152.386,"body":"great pitch and you can tell"},{"startTime":2148.756,"endTime":2152.386,"body":"a story, you have skills."},{"startTime":2152.506,"endTime":2155.296,"body":"You can do that at each level"},{"startTime":2152.506,"endTime":2155.296,"body":"in the organization, right?"},{"startTime":2155.296,"endTime":2157.186,"body":"With your peers,"},{"startTime":2155.296,"endTime":2157.186,"body":"with your teams."},{"startTime":2157.486,"endTime":2160.186,"body":"I think that's"},{"startTime":2157.486,"endTime":2160.186,"body":"definitely valuable."},{"startTime":2160.216,"endTime":2163.236,"body":"I gotta tell you I'm supposed to"},{"startTime":2160.216,"endTime":2163.236,"body":"be taking the opposite viewpoint"},{"startTime":2163.236,"endTime":2166.156,"body":"and there are, things that I"},{"startTime":2163.236,"endTime":2166.156,"body":"could point out here a focus on"},{"startTime":2166.156,"endTime":2169.606,"body":"storytelling and telling great"},{"startTime":2166.156,"endTime":2169.606,"body":"stories, just like they do in"},{"startTime":2169.606,"endTime":2173.236,"body":"Silicon Valley, they tell great"},{"startTime":2169.606,"endTime":2173.236,"body":"stories like, oh, my Theranos"},{"startTime":2173.236,"endTime":2175.846,"body":"product can tell from your"},{"startTime":2173.236,"endTime":2175.846,"body":"blood whether you're gonna,"},{"startTime":2176.226,"endTime":2177.396,"body":"go to the moon or whatever."},{"startTime":2177.396,"endTime":2179.991,"body":"It's like the ability"},{"startTime":2177.396,"endTime":2179.991,"body":"to tell a great story"},{"startTime":2180.111,"endTime":2182.121,"body":"like marketing success."},{"startTime":2182.421,"endTime":2185.436,"body":"It doesn't necessarily come"},{"startTime":2182.421,"endTime":2185.436,"body":"from telling you a great story."},{"startTime":2185.676,"endTime":2188.016,"body":"Product success doesn't"},{"startTime":2185.676,"endTime":2188.016,"body":"necessarily come from"},{"startTime":2188.076,"endTime":2189.516,"body":"telling a great story."},{"startTime":2189.826,"endTime":2191.476,"body":"At some point you have"},{"startTime":2189.826,"endTime":2191.476,"body":"to back up your claims."},{"startTime":2191.576,"endTime":2195.536,"body":"but at the same stroke that"},{"startTime":2191.576,"endTime":2195.536,"body":"I am disagreeing with you."},{"startTime":2195.836,"endTime":2200.066,"body":"I also am thinking in the"},{"startTime":2195.836,"endTime":2200.066,"body":"back of my head of times"},{"startTime":2200.066,"endTime":2204.716,"body":"in my career where a great"},{"startTime":2200.066,"endTime":2204.716,"body":"story trumps evidence a"},{"startTime":2204.716,"endTime":2205.916,"body":"hundred percent of the time."},{"startTime":2206.336,"endTime":2209.336,"body":"And, not even like it"},{"startTime":2206.336,"endTime":2209.336,"body":"trumps evidence, meaning it"},{"startTime":2209.336,"endTime":2212.156,"body":"forces everyone to take a"},{"startTime":2209.336,"endTime":2212.156,"body":"second look at the evidence"},{"startTime":2212.156,"endTime":2212.816,"body":"they have or whatever."},{"startTime":2213.086,"endTime":2215.276,"body":"It just blinds people."},{"startTime":2215.741,"endTime":2216.881,"body":"To the evidence at hand."},{"startTime":2216.881,"endTime":2216.941,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":2217.001,"endTime":2221.721,"body":"Completely of like, oh, I know"},{"startTime":2217.001,"endTime":2221.721,"body":"that we're not getting any money"},{"startTime":2221.721,"endTime":2226.401,"body":"in, but this sales pipeline, we"},{"startTime":2221.721,"endTime":2226.401,"body":"feel real good and that there's"},{"startTime":2226.401,"endTime":2229.641,"body":"some oil flowing through the"},{"startTime":2226.401,"endTime":2229.641,"body":"pipeline and we just, you know,"},{"startTime":2229.641,"endTime":2231.831,"body":"oh, it's such a great pipeline."},{"startTime":2232.041,"endTime":2234.231,"body":"And then we do that until"},{"startTime":2232.041,"endTime":2234.231,"body":"the company goes bankrupt."},{"startTime":2234.231,"endTime":2237.191,"body":"I've seen that Too many"},{"startTime":2234.231,"endTime":2237.191,"body":"times the people capable"},{"startTime":2237.191,"endTime":2240.341,"body":"of weaving that narrative"},{"startTime":2237.191,"endTime":2240.341,"body":"and telling that story."},{"startTime":2240.391,"endTime":2241.651,"body":"And bringing everybody along."},{"startTime":2241.651,"endTime":2246.901,"body":"I've seen it strongly portrayed,"},{"startTime":2241.651,"endTime":2246.901,"body":"overriding every bit of"},{"startTime":2246.901,"endTime":2251.371,"body":"everything I could argue against"},{"startTime":2246.901,"endTime":2251.371,"body":"too many times to very seriously"},{"startTime":2251.371,"endTime":2252.211,"body":"argue against this one."},{"startTime":2252.451,"endTime":2255.241,"body":"So first of all, you"},{"startTime":2252.451,"endTime":2255.241,"body":"gotta recognize that"},{"startTime":2255.541,"endTime":2258.861,"body":"remarkable stories, Stay"},{"startTime":2255.541,"endTime":2258.861,"body":"with you for a long time."},{"startTime":2258.941,"endTime":2260.441,"body":"Data points don't, yeah."},{"startTime":2260.471,"endTime":2260.831,"body":"Right."},{"startTime":2261.011,"endTime":2261.941,"body":"So that's one thing."},{"startTime":2262.351,"endTime":2264.631,"body":"But to your point, if"},{"startTime":2262.351,"endTime":2264.631,"body":"you're just telling stories."},{"startTime":2264.931,"endTime":2266.431,"body":"Not following through."},{"startTime":2266.581,"endTime":2266.761,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":2267.121,"endTime":2270.391,"body":"Then you're not gonna get"},{"startTime":2267.121,"endTime":2270.391,"body":"any more VC money You can go"},{"startTime":2270.391,"endTime":2273.061,"body":"only so far and say, round"},{"startTime":2270.391,"endTime":2273.061,"body":"one, we're not making money."},{"startTime":2273.061,"endTime":2276.031,"body":"We don't even have a product,"},{"startTime":2273.061,"endTime":2276.031,"body":"but we're getting mind share,"},{"startTime":2276.061,"endTime":2277.501,"body":"maybe you don't need to."},{"startTime":2277.501,"endTime":2280.261,"body":"the funny thing  about this"},{"startTime":2277.501,"endTime":2280.261,"body":"is like all the AI companies"},{"startTime":2280.261,"endTime":2282.871,"body":"that go and lobby the president"},{"startTime":2280.261,"endTime":2282.871,"body":"and be like, oh, we could"},{"startTime":2282.871,"endTime":2286.291,"body":"just be the best AI industry"},{"startTime":2282.871,"endTime":2286.291,"body":"in the world if we just had"},{"startTime":2286.291,"endTime":2287.821,"body":"500 billion extra dollars."},{"startTime":2288.091,"endTime":2289.051,"body":"Please miss the president."},{"startTime":2289.051,"endTime":2290.431,"body":"Give us $500 billion."},{"startTime":2290.431,"endTime":2293.931,"body":"And just using your narrative"},{"startTime":2290.431,"endTime":2293.931,"body":"on a different audience,"},{"startTime":2294.381,"endTime":2296.571,"body":"that's just called marketing."},{"startTime":2296.721,"endTime":2300.331,"body":"I almost want to not talk"},{"startTime":2296.721,"endTime":2300.331,"body":"about this category anymore"},{"startTime":2300.721,"endTime":2303.031,"body":"because I don't think I'm"},{"startTime":2300.721,"endTime":2303.031,"body":"gonna cover any extra ground"},{"startTime":2303.031,"endTime":2306.541,"body":"because this strategy works."},{"startTime":2306.811,"endTime":2309.181,"body":"I guess my strongest"},{"startTime":2306.811,"endTime":2309.181,"body":"pushback on the strategy is"},{"startTime":2309.571,"endTime":2311.656,"body":"it works until it doesn't."},{"startTime":2311.656,"endTime":2313.051,"body":"Until it doesn't,"},{"startTime":2311.656,"endTime":2313.051,"body":"until it doesn't work."},{"startTime":2313.141,"endTime":2316.461,"body":"And then you gotta pick up your"},{"startTime":2313.141,"endTime":2316.461,"body":"carnival and move it to a new"},{"startTime":2316.461,"endTime":2319.941,"body":"town to get money from them"},{"startTime":2316.461,"endTime":2319.941,"body":"because the old town's not gonna"},{"startTime":2319.941,"endTime":2321.141,"body":"come to your carnival anymore."},{"startTime":2321.231,"endTime":2321.291,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":2321.321,"endTime":2323.121,"body":"So it works until"},{"startTime":2321.321,"endTime":2323.121,"body":"it doesn't work."},{"startTime":2323.121,"endTime":2325.551,"body":"I completely understand"},{"startTime":2323.121,"endTime":2325.551,"body":"and seed all my points."},{"startTime":2325.791,"endTime":2328.251,"body":"One point for you,"},{"startTime":2325.791,"endTime":2328.251,"body":"zero points for me."},{"startTime":2328.671,"endTime":2332.121,"body":"I'm perfectly willing to take"},{"startTime":2328.671,"endTime":2332.121,"body":"that loss because, this is a"},{"startTime":2332.121,"endTime":2333.501,"body":"personal failing of myself."},{"startTime":2333.921,"endTime":2337.761,"body":"I don't know how to combat"},{"startTime":2333.921,"endTime":2337.761,"body":"that in that the storytelling"},{"startTime":2338.031,"endTime":2342.141,"body":"like power in the human"},{"startTime":2338.031,"endTime":2342.141,"body":"brain just can't, I don't"},{"startTime":2342.141,"endTime":2343.371,"body":"know a way to overcome that."},{"startTime":2343.521,"endTime":2344.781,"body":"Yeah, I agree with that."},{"startTime":2345.081,"endTime":2346.281,"body":"Well, that's number six."},{"startTime":2346.311,"endTime":2348.081,"body":"Luckily we only gave"},{"startTime":2346.311,"endTime":2348.081,"body":"one point for that, so"},{"startTime":2348.081,"endTime":2348.951,"body":"we can move on quickly."},{"startTime":2349.441,"endTime":2352.141,"body":"Number seven, inheriting"},{"startTime":2349.441,"endTime":2352.141,"body":"organizational chaos"},{"startTime":2352.351,"endTime":2354.031,"body":"versus creating order."},{"startTime":2354.211,"endTime":2358.331,"body":"I think the point here is  as"},{"startTime":2354.211,"endTime":2358.331,"body":"a product manager, your job is"},{"startTime":2358.331,"endTime":2360.611,"body":"to create order from the chaos."},{"startTime":2360.911,"endTime":2364.061,"body":"And my point against this"},{"startTime":2360.911,"endTime":2364.061,"body":"is every minute that you are"},{"startTime":2364.061,"endTime":2367.231,"body":"creating order better team"},{"startTime":2364.061,"endTime":2367.231,"body":"structures, better communication"},{"startTime":2367.231,"endTime":2370.031,"body":"structures, breaking down"},{"startTime":2367.231,"endTime":2370.031,"body":"silos, every minute you spend"},{"startTime":2370.031,"endTime":2373.001,"body":"doing that is a minute away"},{"startTime":2370.031,"endTime":2373.001,"body":"from doing real PM work."},{"startTime":2373.361,"endTime":2375.601,"body":"And,  you can be like,"},{"startTime":2373.361,"endTime":2375.601,"body":"oh, Brian, communication"},{"startTime":2375.601,"endTime":2376.771,"body":"is your real PM work."},{"startTime":2376.951,"endTime":2379.591,"body":"But I would say like, no PM"},{"startTime":2376.951,"endTime":2379.591,"body":"work, like talking to your"},{"startTime":2379.591,"endTime":2382.021,"body":"customers, figuring out"},{"startTime":2379.591,"endTime":2382.021,"body":"better marketing schemes,"},{"startTime":2382.021,"endTime":2382.861,"body":"better business models."},{"startTime":2382.871,"endTime":2383.741,"body":"That's PM work."},{"startTime":2384.051,"endTime":2387.221,"body":"Figuring out why"},{"startTime":2384.051,"endTime":2387.221,"body":"your organization is."},{"startTime":2387.521,"endTime":2391.451,"body":"As poorly designed and"},{"startTime":2387.521,"endTime":2391.451,"body":"scaled as possible."},{"startTime":2391.451,"endTime":2393.701,"body":"All the stuff that you think"},{"startTime":2391.451,"endTime":2393.701,"body":"a scrum master and agile coach"},{"startTime":2393.701,"endTime":2396.221,"body":"would do, like, I think this"},{"startTime":2393.701,"endTime":2396.221,"body":"is a waste of time for a pm"},{"startTime":2396.311,"endTime":2397.601,"body":"I can easily argue this one."},{"startTime":2397.791,"endTime":2398.031,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":2398.331,"endTime":2400.621,"body":"Listen, two things here that"},{"startTime":2398.331,"endTime":2400.621,"body":"I want to talk about, ? If"},{"startTime":2400.621,"endTime":2403.711,"body":"you're a PM and you're in an"},{"startTime":2400.621,"endTime":2403.711,"body":"organization that is,  say"},{"startTime":2403.711,"endTime":2408.471,"body":"suboptimally designed and you"},{"startTime":2403.711,"endTime":2408.471,"body":"have ideas to improve things"},{"startTime":2408.471,"endTime":2411.29,"body":"here and there, but you don't"},{"startTime":2408.471,"endTime":2411.29,"body":"do that because you're just"},{"startTime":2411.29,"endTime":2415.01,"body":"too busy doing PM things,"},{"startTime":2411.29,"endTime":2415.01,"body":"you're complicit in continuing"},{"startTime":2415.22,"endTime":2417.41,"body":"that status quo, basically."},{"startTime":2417.76,"endTime":2420.64,"body":"Some will turn that"},{"startTime":2417.76,"endTime":2420.64,"body":"around and say, but oh,"},{"startTime":2420.64,"endTime":2422.08,"body":"that shows adaptability."},{"startTime":2422.08,"endTime":2424.15,"body":"We can even work in"},{"startTime":2422.08,"endTime":2424.15,"body":"this crappy culture."},{"startTime":2424.21,"endTime":2427.69,"body":"Well, hang on Are you just"},{"startTime":2424.21,"endTime":2427.69,"body":"doing things for the short term?"},{"startTime":2427.69,"endTime":2430.295,"body":"Or do you want things to be"},{"startTime":2427.69,"endTime":2430.295,"body":"better for the longer term too?"},{"startTime":2430.345,"endTime":2430.575,"body":"Right?"},{"startTime":2430.915,"endTime":2433.375,"body":"rather than say this is kind"},{"startTime":2430.915,"endTime":2433.375,"body":"of heads or tails, black"},{"startTime":2433.375,"endTime":2436.52,"body":"or white binary thing, you"},{"startTime":2433.375,"endTime":2436.52,"body":"could do a little of this."},{"startTime":2436.865,"endTime":2440.255,"body":"But leave it to org design"},{"startTime":2436.865,"endTime":2440.255,"body":"experts to come help you with"},{"startTime":2440.255,"endTime":2443.165,"body":"that and do more on the PM side."},{"startTime":2443.225,"endTime":2445.235,"body":"it's not black and"},{"startTime":2443.225,"endTime":2445.235,"body":"white in my opinion."},{"startTime":2445.535,"endTime":2449.325,"body":"I mean, creating an in"},{"startTime":2445.535,"endTime":2449.325,"body":"adapting existing structures"},{"startTime":2449.475,"endTime":2453.195,"body":"into better structures"},{"startTime":2449.475,"endTime":2453.195,"body":"shows potential for you to"},{"startTime":2453.195,"endTime":2454.875,"body":"become an executive leader."},{"startTime":2455.055,"endTime":2457.895,"body":"Yeah, I'm with you on that"},{"startTime":2455.055,"endTime":2457.895,"body":"it does show that you're"},{"startTime":2457.895,"endTime":2461.795,"body":"ready to become a, a founder"},{"startTime":2457.895,"endTime":2461.795,"body":"entrepreneur, like, you know,"},{"startTime":2461.825,"endTime":2463.355,"body":"original thinker type of deal."},{"startTime":2463.655,"endTime":2466.325,"body":"And also it shows that , maybe"},{"startTime":2463.655,"endTime":2466.325,"body":"you should move on from this"},{"startTime":2466.325,"endTime":2469.955,"body":"company who has no interest in"},{"startTime":2466.325,"endTime":2469.955,"body":"bettering themselves, right?"},{"startTime":2469.955,"endTime":2471.605,"body":"so that you can have more time."},{"startTime":2472.04,"endTime":2473.75,"body":"To actually do your job."},{"startTime":2474.02,"endTime":2474.14,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":2474.17,"endTime":2476.37,"body":"that's my problem with this"},{"startTime":2474.17,"endTime":2476.37,"body":"category is why are these"},{"startTime":2476.52,"endTime":2481.24,"body":"systemic problems from arguing"},{"startTime":2476.52,"endTime":2481.24,"body":"Agile 1 99, the Deming podcast."},{"startTime":2481.3,"endTime":2483.34,"body":"Why, why are these"},{"startTime":2481.3,"endTime":2483.34,"body":"things continuing?"},{"startTime":2483.34,"endTime":2486.8,"body":"If everyone sees them, why"},{"startTime":2483.34,"endTime":2486.8,"body":"doesn't someone intercept and"},{"startTime":2486.8,"endTime":2490.7,"body":"deal with these problems so that"},{"startTime":2486.8,"endTime":2490.7,"body":"you as a product manager can be"},{"startTime":2490.7,"endTime":2492.86,"body":"free to do product management?"},{"startTime":2493.16,"endTime":2493.64,"body":"I don't know."},{"startTime":2493.69,"endTime":2494.77,"body":"that's a fair point, right?"},{"startTime":2494.77,"endTime":2496.87,"body":"I mean, product managers"},{"startTime":2494.77,"endTime":2496.87,"body":"are elastic first trying"},{"startTime":2496.87,"endTime":2498.34,"body":"to put the rock up hill."},{"startTime":2498.37,"endTime":2498.58,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":2498.68,"endTime":2501.26,"body":"we always give that advice"},{"startTime":2498.68,"endTime":2501.26,"body":"too on this podcast, Rick,"},{"startTime":2501.26,"endTime":2503.93,"body":"keep that resume updated"},{"startTime":2501.26,"endTime":2503.93,"body":"because at some point you've"},{"startTime":2503.93,"endTime":2505.34,"body":"gotta decide enough's enough."},{"startTime":2505.4,"endTime":2505.73,"body":"All right."},{"startTime":2505.73,"endTime":2509.24,"body":"Well against gets two rocks"},{"startTime":2505.73,"endTime":2509.24,"body":"and four gets no rocks."},{"startTime":2509.27,"endTime":2510.65,"body":"Let's move on to"},{"startTime":2509.27,"endTime":2510.65,"body":"the next category."},{"startTime":2510.69,"endTime":2513.71,"body":"Alright, the category"},{"startTime":2510.69,"endTime":2513.71,"body":"that I'm excited about is"},{"startTime":2513.8,"endTime":2518.6,"body":"self advocacy versus the"},{"startTime":2513.8,"endTime":2518.6,"body":"work speaks for itself."},{"startTime":2518.84,"endTime":2520.995,"body":"This is a little bit similar"},{"startTime":2518.84,"endTime":2520.995,"body":"to a previous category that"},{"startTime":2520.995,"endTime":2523.575,"body":"we just did, but I wanna talk"},{"startTime":2520.995,"endTime":2523.575,"body":"about this one specifically"},{"startTime":2523.785,"endTime":2526.005,"body":"because I think this is one of"},{"startTime":2523.785,"endTime":2526.005,"body":"the ones that I have a hard time"},{"startTime":2526.005,"endTime":2531.245,"body":"with, which is if we're nailing"},{"startTime":2526.005,"endTime":2531.245,"body":"things and customers are using"},{"startTime":2531.245,"endTime":2535.315,"body":"it, you can see the effects of"},{"startTime":2531.245,"endTime":2535.315,"body":"our work in the metrics, right?"},{"startTime":2535.835,"endTime":2538.895,"body":"daily active use is"},{"startTime":2535.835,"endTime":2538.895,"body":"rising, churn is dropping."},{"startTime":2539.325,"endTime":2540.915,"body":"The signup rate is increasing."},{"startTime":2541.185,"endTime":2545.565,"body":"You can see that we're nailing"},{"startTime":2541.185,"endTime":2545.565,"body":"things, but then the company's"},{"startTime":2545.565,"endTime":2547.325,"body":"like, rather than promote the."},{"startTime":2547.625,"endTime":2551.285,"body":"Product manager whose metrics"},{"startTime":2547.625,"endTime":2551.285,"body":"are obviously on the rise."},{"startTime":2551.585,"endTime":2553.945,"body":"I'm gonna promote the"},{"startTime":2551.585,"endTime":2553.945,"body":"product manager that I like"},{"startTime":2553.975,"endTime":2555.175,"body":"better 'cause I like them."},{"startTime":2555.445,"endTime":2557.145,"body":"Because they talk to me"},{"startTime":2555.445,"endTime":2557.145,"body":"on the weekends and they"},{"startTime":2557.145,"endTime":2560.465,"body":"answer my slack messages at"},{"startTime":2557.145,"endTime":2560.465,"body":"midnight when I post a random"},{"startTime":2560.465,"endTime":2562.335,"body":"shower thought on a Sunday."},{"startTime":2562.535,"endTime":2565.205,"body":"They hear from these people all"},{"startTime":2562.535,"endTime":2565.205,"body":"the time, as opposed to people"},{"startTime":2565.205,"endTime":2567.335,"body":"that are just quietly sitting"},{"startTime":2565.205,"endTime":2567.335,"body":"there getting the work done."},{"startTime":2567.435,"endTime":2570.465,"body":"So it kind of makes sense that,"},{"startTime":2567.435,"endTime":2570.465,"body":"if that's who you know, you're"},{"startTime":2570.465,"endTime":2571.725,"body":"gonna promote that person."},{"startTime":2572.145,"endTime":2573.795,"body":"People like promoting"},{"startTime":2572.145,"endTime":2573.795,"body":"people they like."},{"startTime":2574.165,"endTime":2574.945,"body":"I get it."},{"startTime":2575.185,"endTime":2577.825,"body":"I don't know if I'm gonna come"},{"startTime":2575.185,"endTime":2577.825,"body":"along with you on this one"},{"startTime":2578.125,"endTime":2579.295,"body":"with that kind of attitude."},{"startTime":2581.635,"endTime":2583.945,"body":"I was trying to, I dunno"},{"startTime":2581.635,"endTime":2583.945,"body":"why I'm so accusatory."},{"startTime":2583.945,"endTime":2585.925,"body":"That was a Yeah, but I"},{"startTime":2583.945,"endTime":2585.925,"body":"mean like the, the, the"},{"startTime":2585.925,"endTime":2586.855,"body":"self-promotion thing."},{"startTime":2586.885,"endTime":2589.915,"body":"I, I have a problem with the,"},{"startTime":2586.885,"endTime":2589.915,"body":"I honestly would think for"},{"startTime":2589.915,"endTime":2591.445,"body":"most people, self-promotion."},{"startTime":2591.73,"endTime":2593.14,"body":"Feels kind of slimy."},{"startTime":2593.44,"endTime":2594.01,"body":"It should."},{"startTime":2594.06,"endTime":2597.3,"body":"but we've seen lots of people"},{"startTime":2594.06,"endTime":2597.3,"body":"who do it and they thrive"},{"startTime":2597.3,"endTime":2599.08,"body":"at it, these are heroes."},{"startTime":2599.29,"endTime":2603.19,"body":"They wanna be heroes in the"},{"startTime":2599.29,"endTime":2603.19,"body":"company and chances are they're"},{"startTime":2603.19,"endTime":2604.39,"body":"not really team players."},{"startTime":2604.39,"endTime":2605.26,"body":"They don't give credit."},{"startTime":2605.31,"endTime":2605.64,"body":"You know?"},{"startTime":2605.73,"endTime":2607.56,"body":"'cause it's all"},{"startTime":2605.73,"endTime":2607.56,"body":"about me, me, me."},{"startTime":2607.95,"endTime":2611.28,"body":"So if they're doing that"},{"startTime":2607.95,"endTime":2611.28,"body":"and leadership's not seeing"},{"startTime":2611.28,"endTime":2615.4,"body":"that, I'd say we fall back"},{"startTime":2611.28,"endTime":2615.4,"body":"to our normal advice here."},{"startTime":2615.88,"endTime":2617.985,"body":". Keep that resume updated,"},{"startTime":2615.88,"endTime":2617.985,"body":"I think I have a shot of"},{"startTime":2617.985,"endTime":2618.945,"body":"winning this category."},{"startTime":2619.025,"endTime":2621.185,"body":"Because I do believe this"},{"startTime":2619.025,"endTime":2621.185,"body":"category is important."},{"startTime":2621.485,"endTime":2625.685,"body":"I think it's important to go"},{"startTime":2621.485,"endTime":2625.685,"body":"out of your way to separate"},{"startTime":2625.685,"endTime":2628.405,"body":"your work from everyone"},{"startTime":2625.685,"endTime":2628.405,"body":"else's work to say, Hey, this"},{"startTime":2628.405,"endTime":2632.575,"body":"thing was successful because"},{"startTime":2628.405,"endTime":2632.575,"body":"I was involved, however."},{"startTime":2632.725,"endTime":2635.885,"body":"The negative size of that"},{"startTime":2632.725,"endTime":2635.885,"body":"is basically what I've seen"},{"startTime":2635.885,"endTime":2638.375,"body":"all throughout my career"},{"startTime":2635.885,"endTime":2638.375,"body":"where you are claiming"},{"startTime":2638.495,"endTime":2640.955,"body":"ownership of everyone else's"},{"startTime":2638.495,"endTime":2640.955,"body":"work that was successful."},{"startTime":2641.015,"endTime":2642.575,"body":"And then when the"},{"startTime":2641.015,"endTime":2642.575,"body":"failures happen, you're"},{"startTime":2642.575,"endTime":2643.595,"body":"nowhere to be seen."},{"startTime":2643.595,"endTime":2644.675,"body":"That's what I've seen normally."},{"startTime":2644.785,"endTime":2649.155,"body":"But if you're going to focus"},{"startTime":2644.785,"endTime":2649.155,"body":"on outcomes and showing your"},{"startTime":2649.155,"endTime":2652.185,"body":"stakeholders, no matter what"},{"startTime":2649.155,"endTime":2652.185,"body":"quadrant they're in of the power"},{"startTime":2652.235,"endTime":2655.325,"body":"interest matrix I think this"},{"startTime":2652.235,"endTime":2655.325,"body":"could be a real tool for you."},{"startTime":2655.375,"endTime":2661.29,"body":"That, and also a big point"},{"startTime":2655.375,"endTime":2661.29,"body":"against saying self advocacy is"},{"startTime":2661.29,"endTime":2663.92,"body":"the only strategy,  it doesn't"},{"startTime":2661.29,"endTime":2663.92,"body":"matter if it's a success or"},{"startTime":2663.92,"endTime":2666.62,"body":"failure  the fact that you"},{"startTime":2663.92,"endTime":2666.62,"body":"are promoting your own thing."},{"startTime":2666.92,"endTime":2668.09,"body":"Is the only thing that matters."},{"startTime":2668.09,"endTime":2669.74,"body":"I don't know if I believe that."},{"startTime":2670.04,"endTime":2673.76,"body":"I think there are certain"},{"startTime":2670.04,"endTime":2673.76,"body":"organizational cultures where"},{"startTime":2673.88,"endTime":2675.65,"body":"you can see this happening."},{"startTime":2675.71,"endTime":2678.2,"body":"You can see people getting"},{"startTime":2675.71,"endTime":2678.2,"body":"promoted that basically"},{"startTime":2678.2,"endTime":2679.16,"body":"toot their own horn."},{"startTime":2679.24,"endTime":2682.21,"body":"And then you've gotta think"},{"startTime":2679.24,"endTime":2682.21,"body":"to yourself, well, if that's"},{"startTime":2682.21,"endTime":2686.09,"body":"how leadership is promoting"},{"startTime":2682.21,"endTime":2686.09,"body":"people and rewarding people,"},{"startTime":2686.39,"endTime":2687.8,"body":"I have two choices basically."},{"startTime":2687.8,"endTime":2688.61,"body":"Be like that."},{"startTime":2688.7,"endTime":2691.64,"body":"Or take my expertise"},{"startTime":2688.7,"endTime":2691.64,"body":"someplace else, it's sad"},{"startTime":2691.64,"endTime":2695.12,"body":"but true that companies like"},{"startTime":2691.64,"endTime":2695.12,"body":"that lose some good people."},{"startTime":2695.15,"endTime":2696.86,"body":"not everybody's"},{"startTime":2695.15,"endTime":2696.86,"body":"good at doing that."},{"startTime":2697.13,"endTime":2699.32,"body":"A lot of people are good at"},{"startTime":2697.13,"endTime":2699.32,"body":"peacocking is what I call it."},{"startTime":2699.47,"endTime":2702.36,"body":"Well, the takeaway from this"},{"startTime":2699.47,"endTime":2702.36,"body":"category is a pretty hot take."},{"startTime":2702.36,"endTime":2706.32,"body":"It says Your brilliance has"},{"startTime":2702.36,"endTime":2706.32,"body":"no organizational value."},{"startTime":2706.47,"endTime":2709.86,"body":"But at the same time,"},{"startTime":2706.47,"endTime":2709.86,"body":"strategic self-advocacy"},{"startTime":2709.86,"endTime":2713.67,"body":"isn't bragging, it's ensuring"},{"startTime":2709.86,"endTime":2713.67,"body":"your contributions matter."},{"startTime":2713.97,"endTime":2717.54,"body":"So  that takeaway is basically"},{"startTime":2713.97,"endTime":2717.54,"body":"taking both sides of it"},{"startTime":2717.84,"endTime":2718.86,"body":"and globbing it together."},{"startTime":2718.92,"endTime":2721.2,"body":"I don't know if I feel"},{"startTime":2718.92,"endTime":2721.2,"body":"better about this or worse."},{"startTime":2721.26,"endTime":2723.99,"body":"Now the category's over,"},{"startTime":2721.26,"endTime":2723.99,"body":"I think this one gets"},{"startTime":2723.99,"endTime":2725.91,"body":"zero brags each side."},{"startTime":2726.08,"endTime":2726.86,"body":"Zero brags!"},{"startTime":2726.94,"endTime":2727.93,"body":"let's go to our final point."},{"startTime":2727.93,"endTime":2732.36,"body":"It says one page vision versus"},{"startTime":2727.93,"endTime":2732.36,"body":"comprehensive documentation."},{"startTime":2732.49,"endTime":2735.4,"body":"I'm glad we saved this one"},{"startTime":2732.49,"endTime":2735.4,"body":"to last because we did do"},{"startTime":2735.4,"endTime":2739.21,"body":"the PRD podcast arguing"},{"startTime":2735.4,"endTime":2739.21,"body":"Agile 1 23 on PRDs, right?"},{"startTime":2739.365,"endTime":2742.515,"body":"the claim here is the"},{"startTime":2739.365,"endTime":2742.515,"body":"majority of product documents."},{"startTime":2742.815,"endTime":2746.525,"body":"Nobody reads them, So get all"},{"startTime":2742.815,"endTime":2746.525,"body":"your chat PRDs, get all your,"},{"startTime":2746.795,"endTime":2749.675,"body":"your funny glasses and your"},{"startTime":2746.795,"endTime":2749.675,"body":"quirky quirks outta, outta your"},{"startTime":2749.675,"endTime":2753.335,"body":"system because all of the AI"},{"startTime":2749.675,"endTime":2753.335,"body":"systems you build to build your"},{"startTime":2753.335,"endTime":2756.315,"body":"documents and all that kind of"},{"startTime":2753.335,"endTime":2756.315,"body":"stuff, nobody's gonna read 'em."},{"startTime":2756.525,"endTime":2760.455,"body":"what you have a chance of"},{"startTime":2756.525,"endTime":2760.455,"body":"getting read is a one-pager."},{"startTime":2760.655,"endTime":2764.315,"body":"This product, or I guess"},{"startTime":2760.655,"endTime":2764.315,"body":"this feature, this big thing,"},{"startTime":2764.375,"endTime":2767.075,"body":"this big swing that we're"},{"startTime":2764.375,"endTime":2767.075,"body":"taking organizationally."},{"startTime":2767.495,"endTime":2771.335,"body":"You've got one page to"},{"startTime":2767.495,"endTime":2771.335,"body":"communicate that to your"},{"startTime":2771.335,"endTime":2775.745,"body":"people, which is actually a"},{"startTime":2771.335,"endTime":2775.745,"body":"challenge to try and communicate"},{"startTime":2775.985,"endTime":2777.215,"body":"everything you want to."},{"startTime":2777.515,"endTime":2779.075,"body":"On a single page, right?"},{"startTime":2779.435,"endTime":2781.805,"body":"It is a challenge to see"},{"startTime":2779.435,"endTime":2781.805,"body":"what are the right things"},{"startTime":2781.805,"endTime":2785.445,"body":"to put there and the"},{"startTime":2781.805,"endTime":2785.445,"body":"brevity of language, the"},{"startTime":2785.445,"endTime":2786.735,"body":"clarity that's needed."},{"startTime":2786.735,"endTime":2788.475,"body":"Not everyone can do this, right?"},{"startTime":2788.475,"endTime":2792.375,"body":"A savvy PM can perhaps do this,"},{"startTime":2788.475,"endTime":2792.375,"body":"but not everyone can do this,"},{"startTime":2792.38,"endTime":2795.28,"body":"the trade off here is yeah,"},{"startTime":2792.38,"endTime":2795.28,"body":"one page gives everyone, one"},{"startTime":2795.28,"endTime":2797.91,"body":"place to go back to, one place"},{"startTime":2795.28,"endTime":2797.91,"body":"to add comments to, you know,"},{"startTime":2797.91,"endTime":2800.6,"body":"it's pretty easy, The trade"},{"startTime":2797.91,"endTime":2800.6,"body":"off here is like you can't"},{"startTime":2800.6,"endTime":2803.26,"body":"do everything in one page,"},{"startTime":2800.6,"endTime":2803.26,"body":"even Amazon has a six pager."},{"startTime":2803.53,"endTime":2804.91,"body":"You can't do"},{"startTime":2803.53,"endTime":2804.91,"body":"everything in one page."},{"startTime":2805.01,"endTime":2806.83,"body":"So, that's my trade off to this."},{"startTime":2807.22,"endTime":2811.33,"body":"So while it's doubted as"},{"startTime":2807.22,"endTime":2811.33,"body":"one page, what if it's two?"},{"startTime":2811.36,"endTime":2812.14,"body":"What if it's three?"},{"startTime":2812.24,"endTime":2814.66,"body":"Not, reams and reams"},{"startTime":2812.24,"endTime":2814.66,"body":"of documentation."},{"startTime":2814.67,"endTime":2817.07,"body":"I think the one page"},{"startTime":2814.67,"endTime":2817.07,"body":"simply means keep it"},{"startTime":2817.16,"endTime":2819.24,"body":"really short and concise."},{"startTime":2819.6,"endTime":2821.28,"body":"That's really what"},{"startTime":2819.6,"endTime":2821.28,"body":"I think from this."},{"startTime":2821.58,"endTime":2824.13,"body":"Listen, I've put together"},{"startTime":2821.58,"endTime":2824.13,"body":"IKEA furniture where there's"},{"startTime":2824.13,"endTime":2825.93,"body":"not a word in the manual."},{"startTime":2825.93,"endTime":2829.17,"body":"And somehow you manage,"},{"startTime":2825.93,"endTime":2829.17,"body":"you have parts left over."},{"startTime":2829.23,"endTime":2832.13,"body":"It's important to say it's"},{"startTime":2829.23,"endTime":2832.13,"body":"not just a single page"},{"startTime":2832.13,"endTime":2834.14,"body":"necessarily, but it's brief."},{"startTime":2834.42,"endTime":2837.39,"body":"so you don't have"},{"startTime":2834.42,"endTime":2837.39,"body":"this noise everywhere."},{"startTime":2837.39,"endTime":2839.52,"body":"You gotta go through"},{"startTime":2837.39,"endTime":2839.52,"body":"references and all this"},{"startTime":2839.52,"endTime":2840.69,"body":"different documentation."},{"startTime":2841.06,"endTime":2843.64,"body":"So I think when you talk"},{"startTime":2841.06,"endTime":2843.64,"body":"about vision, it should"},{"startTime":2843.64,"endTime":2845.17,"body":"be short and to the point."},{"startTime":2845.47,"endTime":2848.62,"body":"I can't imagine a vision"},{"startTime":2845.47,"endTime":2848.62,"body":"document that's six pages long."},{"startTime":2848.72,"endTime":2849.65,"body":"No one's gonna read it."},{"startTime":2849.89,"endTime":2851.96,"body":"And if they read it,"},{"startTime":2849.89,"endTime":2851.96,"body":"they wouldn't retain it."},{"startTime":2852.11,"endTime":2855.32,"body":"I get the arguing point that"},{"startTime":2852.11,"endTime":2855.32,"body":"the unnecessary complexity, just"},{"startTime":2855.32,"endTime":2856.04,"body":"doesn't need to be in there."},{"startTime":2856.07,"endTime":2860.15,"body":"It needs to say, here's the"},{"startTime":2856.07,"endTime":2860.15,"body":"state of the world, here's"},{"startTime":2860.15,"endTime":2862.04,"body":"where we're going and here's"},{"startTime":2860.15,"endTime":2862.04,"body":"what the world will look"},{"startTime":2862.04,"endTime":2862.88,"body":"like when we get there."},{"startTime":2863.24,"endTime":2867.65,"body":"that's it, maybe some high"},{"startTime":2863.24,"endTime":2867.65,"body":"level, like must have,"},{"startTime":2867.68,"endTime":2869.73,"body":"could have, type of stuff."},{"startTime":2870.03,"endTime":2871.65,"body":"Some bounding basically."},{"startTime":2872.02,"endTime":2872.92,"body":"I can go along with that."},{"startTime":2872.92,"endTime":2874.27,"body":"I can give you points for that."},{"startTime":2874.7,"endTime":2878.21,"body":"the hangups here that I"},{"startTime":2874.7,"endTime":2878.21,"body":"have is if you're building a"},{"startTime":2878.21,"endTime":2882.5,"body":"product that is inside of a"},{"startTime":2878.21,"endTime":2882.5,"body":"suite of products, like one"},{"startTime":2882.5,"endTime":2884.81,"body":"page could mask complexity."},{"startTime":2884.96,"endTime":2887.81,"body":"Let me about the YouTube like"},{"startTime":2884.96,"endTime":2887.81,"body":"if you came up with a product"},{"startTime":2887.81,"endTime":2891.5,"body":"like, oh, we're gonna just allow"},{"startTime":2887.81,"endTime":2891.5,"body":"you to edit all the videos."},{"startTime":2891.95,"endTime":2893.45,"body":"In the world or whatever."},{"startTime":2893.45,"endTime":2895.55,"body":"You're like all in"},{"startTime":2893.45,"endTime":2895.55,"body":"the whole world."},{"startTime":2895.58,"endTime":2895.85,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":2896.09,"endTime":2897.2,"body":"On YouTube."},{"startTime":2897.56,"endTime":2898.79,"body":"Like, come on, man."},{"startTime":2898.82,"endTime":2903.825,"body":"Like that's a insanely"},{"startTime":2898.82,"endTime":2903.825,"body":"complex product that"},{"startTime":2903.825,"endTime":2904.665,"body":"won't fit in one page."},{"startTime":2904.665,"endTime":2906.405,"body":"This goes back to what I"},{"startTime":2904.665,"endTime":2906.405,"body":"was saying earlier, the"},{"startTime":2906.435,"endTime":2910.155,"body":"ability to concisely craft"},{"startTime":2906.435,"endTime":2910.155,"body":"what you're trying to do."},{"startTime":2910.515,"endTime":2913.485,"body":"So in that scenario, for"},{"startTime":2910.515,"endTime":2913.485,"body":"example, maybe you need"},{"startTime":2913.485,"endTime":2914.955,"body":"to break that down, right?"},{"startTime":2915.005,"endTime":2918.355,"body":"Videos of this size,"},{"startTime":2915.005,"endTime":2918.355,"body":"quality, et cetera, and"},{"startTime":2918.355,"endTime":2920.605,"body":"that could be a one pager"},{"startTime":2918.355,"endTime":2920.605,"body":"for each of those, perhaps."},{"startTime":2920.755,"endTime":2922.105,"body":"So you end up with four pages."},{"startTime":2922.255,"endTime":2922.495,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":2922.695,"endTime":2925.295,"body":"I'm perfectly fine ceeding"},{"startTime":2922.695,"endTime":2925.295,"body":"this category because I think"},{"startTime":2925.295,"endTime":2927.375,"body":"this is out of everything"},{"startTime":2925.295,"endTime":2927.375,"body":"we talked about, probably"},{"startTime":2927.375,"endTime":2930.805,"body":"the most important category,"},{"startTime":2927.375,"endTime":2930.805,"body":"other than the initial one"},{"startTime":2930.805,"endTime":2934.715,"body":"we started where 51% is"},{"startTime":2930.805,"endTime":2934.715,"body":"communication, for the 49% of"},{"startTime":2934.715,"endTime":2937.055,"body":"people you can't communicate"},{"startTime":2934.715,"endTime":2937.055,"body":"with on a daily basis."},{"startTime":2937.105,"endTime":2941.815,"body":"You have somewhere to put down"},{"startTime":2937.105,"endTime":2941.815,"body":"your thoughts, Think about a"},{"startTime":2941.815,"endTime":2945.345,"body":"typical company, how many people"},{"startTime":2941.815,"endTime":2945.345,"body":"can your company scale to until"},{"startTime":2945.345,"endTime":2949.215,"body":"you just can't get to all of"},{"startTime":2945.345,"endTime":2949.215,"body":"them in a day-to-day basis."},{"startTime":2949.495,"endTime":2950.905,"body":"that's where I'm going"},{"startTime":2949.495,"endTime":2950.905,"body":"with this category."},{"startTime":2950.985,"endTime":2951.255,"body":"why?"},{"startTime":2951.255,"endTime":2953.175,"body":"I think this is a good"},{"startTime":2951.255,"endTime":2953.175,"body":"one to cut my losses"},{"startTime":2953.175,"endTime":2954.045,"body":"and cash out, right?"},{"startTime":2954.045,"endTime":2956.895,"body":"And just leave the casino before"},{"startTime":2954.045,"endTime":2956.895,"body":"the house takes all my money."},{"startTime":2957.415,"endTime":2960.685,"body":"If you can't fit your"},{"startTime":2957.415,"endTime":2960.685,"body":"product vision on one page."},{"startTime":2961.165,"endTime":2964.175,"body":"You haven't, come up with"},{"startTime":2961.165,"endTime":2964.175,"body":"elevator pitches for new"},{"startTime":2964.175,"endTime":2966.245,"body":"product features to pitch."},{"startTime":2966.635,"endTime":2968.915,"body":"If you can't fit them"},{"startTime":2966.635,"endTime":2968.915,"body":"into a ten second pitch,"},{"startTime":2969.335,"endTime":2970.805,"body":"they're not refined enough."},{"startTime":2970.855,"endTime":2975.235,"body":"Your pitches as a product"},{"startTime":2970.855,"endTime":2975.235,"body":"manager for a new feature, let"},{"startTime":2975.235,"endTime":2976.555,"body":"alone a whole product suite."},{"startTime":2976.555,"endTime":2979.555,"body":"They need to be very concise."},{"startTime":2979.735,"endTime":2982.315,"body":"And this is the document"},{"startTime":2979.735,"endTime":2982.315,"body":"version for people that are"},{"startTime":2982.315,"endTime":2984.415,"body":"actually our high interest."},{"startTime":2984.755,"endTime":2986.195,"body":"This is a high interest version."},{"startTime":2986.375,"endTime":2989.675,"body":"So like you can you get a"},{"startTime":2986.375,"endTime":2989.675,"body":"whole page to dedicate, I"},{"startTime":2989.675,"endTime":2991.385,"body":"mean, a whole page is a lot."},{"startTime":2991.39,"endTime":2991.96,"body":"It is a lot."},{"startTime":2991.965,"endTime":2993.835,"body":"So what is the"},{"startTime":2991.965,"endTime":2993.835,"body":"content of that page?"},{"startTime":2993.835,"endTime":2996.395,"body":"maybe we'll take that one"},{"startTime":2993.835,"endTime":2996.395,"body":"to a separate podcast."},{"startTime":2996.825,"endTime":2998.145,"body":"Because that's a, that"},{"startTime":2996.825,"endTime":2998.145,"body":"would be a good one."},{"startTime":2998.245,"endTime":3002.715,"body":"If we were to outline this"},{"startTime":2998.245,"endTime":3002.715,"body":"product vision document without"},{"startTime":3002.715,"endTime":3005.865,"body":"a lot of thought put into"},{"startTime":3002.715,"endTime":3005.865,"body":"it, which we can cover in a"},{"startTime":3005.865,"endTime":3008.205,"body":"different podcast, so like, we"},{"startTime":3005.865,"endTime":3008.205,"body":"don't need to go too deep now."},{"startTime":3008.505,"endTime":3012.425,"body":"It would be your company"},{"startTime":3008.505,"endTime":3012.425,"body":"strategy, your North star, how"},{"startTime":3012.425,"endTime":3013.565,"body":"the two of them tied together."},{"startTime":3013.865,"endTime":3015.515,"body":"All right, let's,"},{"startTime":3013.865,"endTime":3015.515,"body":"let's stick with that."},{"startTime":3015.695,"endTime":3020.705,"body":"And then any cross-functional"},{"startTime":3015.695,"endTime":3020.705,"body":"dependencies, shared goals"},{"startTime":3020.705,"endTime":3022.895,"body":"with other teams, other"},{"startTime":3020.705,"endTime":3022.895,"body":"products, ways that they"},{"startTime":3022.895,"endTime":3024.065,"body":"can contribute to this."},{"startTime":3024.095,"endTime":3024.185,"body":"Mm-hmm."},{"startTime":3024.575,"endTime":3024.905,"body":"Okay."},{"startTime":3025.205,"endTime":3028.505,"body":"What else would it be things"},{"startTime":3025.205,"endTime":3028.505,"body":"that you need from other teams."},{"startTime":3028.805,"endTime":3030.635,"body":"Things that other teams"},{"startTime":3028.805,"endTime":3030.635,"body":"can get from you, right?"},{"startTime":3031.11,"endTime":3034.68,"body":"Other things are commitments"},{"startTime":3031.11,"endTime":3034.68,"body":"that you need to be successful."},{"startTime":3034.83,"endTime":3037.04,"body":"This is a weird document at"},{"startTime":3034.83,"endTime":3037.04,"body":"this point, but I can't imagine"},{"startTime":3037.04,"endTime":3037.97,"body":"this all fits on one page."},{"startTime":3037.97,"endTime":3041.48,"body":"when we make this strategic"},{"startTime":3037.97,"endTime":3041.48,"body":"decision, when leadership talks"},{"startTime":3041.48,"endTime":3044.88,"body":"about this strategic thing,"},{"startTime":3041.48,"endTime":3044.88,"body":"I need to be included because"},{"startTime":3044.88,"endTime":3046.05,"body":"this product touches it."},{"startTime":3046.25,"endTime":3048.74,"body":"so if like, oh, if, like Brian"},{"startTime":3046.25,"endTime":3048.74,"body":"Roman's development company,"},{"startTime":3048.89,"endTime":3053.18,"body":"if, if like we develop a, a"},{"startTime":3048.89,"endTime":3053.18,"body":"product that operates in the"},{"startTime":3053.18,"endTime":3056.75,"body":"FinTech market and somebody"},{"startTime":3053.18,"endTime":3056.75,"body":"in our company wants to talk"},{"startTime":3056.75,"endTime":3059.3,"body":"about stock trading, we need"},{"startTime":3056.75,"endTime":3059.3,"body":"to grab this product manager"},{"startTime":3059.3,"endTime":3061.1,"body":"and bring them in Yep."},{"startTime":3061.22,"endTime":3065.45,"body":"To talk about like, oh, we"},{"startTime":3061.22,"endTime":3065.45,"body":"are exploring this other,"},{"startTime":3065.75,"endTime":3069.14,"body":"other feature or other"},{"startTime":3065.75,"endTime":3069.14,"body":"product or partnering with"},{"startTime":3069.14,"endTime":3071.69,"body":"another company that does"},{"startTime":3069.14,"endTime":3071.69,"body":"something with stock trading."},{"startTime":3071.99,"endTime":3072.11,"body":"Okay."},{"startTime":3072.11,"endTime":3074.51,"body":"So there's some, there's"},{"startTime":3072.11,"endTime":3074.51,"body":"some like organizational"},{"startTime":3074.51,"endTime":3077.57,"body":"level working agreements"},{"startTime":3074.51,"endTime":3077.57,"body":"that are happening."},{"startTime":3077.975,"endTime":3078.275,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":3078.515,"endTime":3078.695,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":3078.695,"endTime":3082.415,"body":"It's, it is basically akin to"},{"startTime":3078.695,"endTime":3082.415,"body":"a contract between different"},{"startTime":3082.415,"endTime":3086.165,"body":"teams contributing to a common"},{"startTime":3082.415,"endTime":3086.165,"body":"product, so it's ending up"},{"startTime":3086.165,"endTime":3090.055,"body":"being a vision document, a goals"},{"startTime":3086.165,"endTime":3090.055,"body":"document being like, what does"},{"startTime":3090.055,"endTime":3092.455,"body":"the world look like when we"},{"startTime":3090.055,"endTime":3092.455,"body":"get there and also it becomes"},{"startTime":3092.455,"endTime":3093.475,"body":"a working agreement document."},{"startTime":3093.475,"endTime":3096.235,"body":"So it's like three"},{"startTime":3093.475,"endTime":3096.235,"body":"documents in one page."},{"startTime":3096.535,"endTime":3099.805,"body":"That needs to be a real, like"},{"startTime":3096.535,"endTime":3099.805,"body":"whoever's editing that they need"},{"startTime":3099.805,"endTime":3101.785,"body":"to be doing their job that day."},{"startTime":3101.905,"endTime":3102.475,"body":"I'm just saying."},{"startTime":3102.775,"endTime":3106.375,"body":"So yeah, those three headings"},{"startTime":3102.775,"endTime":3106.375,"body":"you outlined, but at some"},{"startTime":3106.375,"endTime":3109.405,"body":"point on that document,"},{"startTime":3106.375,"endTime":3109.405,"body":"it has to relay what the."},{"startTime":3109.705,"endTime":3113.975,"body":"Solution or product is who the"},{"startTime":3109.705,"endTime":3113.975,"body":"target audience is, presumably."},{"startTime":3114.275,"endTime":3116.565,"body":"I mean, this thing could go"},{"startTime":3114.275,"endTime":3116.565,"body":"into two pages  it could and"},{"startTime":3116.565,"endTime":3117.79,"body":"that'd be perfectly acceptable."},{"startTime":3117.79,"endTime":3119.02,"body":"When you have this"},{"startTime":3117.79,"endTime":3119.02,"body":"document, you could do a"},{"startTime":3119.02,"endTime":3120.49,"body":"whole quarterly planning."},{"startTime":3120.55,"endTime":3122.89,"body":"on this document, and then"},{"startTime":3120.55,"endTime":3122.89,"body":"when the quarter is finished"},{"startTime":3122.89,"endTime":3125.38,"body":"and you've implemented some"},{"startTime":3122.89,"endTime":3125.38,"body":"features and  got some customer"},{"startTime":3125.38,"endTime":3128.35,"body":"feedback, I would go back to"},{"startTime":3125.38,"endTime":3128.35,"body":"this document and say, now that"},{"startTime":3128.35,"endTime":3131.68,"body":"we implemented these things,"},{"startTime":3128.35,"endTime":3131.68,"body":"how does this document change?"},{"startTime":3131.83,"endTime":3134.83,"body":"do we want to change our goals,"},{"startTime":3131.83,"endTime":3134.83,"body":"target different customers?"},{"startTime":3134.98,"endTime":3136.93,"body":"Talk about personas,"},{"startTime":3134.98,"endTime":3136.93,"body":"like all the things you"},{"startTime":3136.93,"endTime":3137.95,"body":"do around the business."},{"startTime":3138.25,"endTime":3141.48,"body":"Could roll back up into"},{"startTime":3138.25,"endTime":3141.48,"body":"this document, but, my main"},{"startTime":3141.48,"endTime":3144.69,"body":"arguing point here in this"},{"startTime":3141.48,"endTime":3144.69,"body":"podcast is if you establish"},{"startTime":3144.69,"endTime":3147.51,"body":"this document, it can drive"},{"startTime":3144.69,"endTime":3147.51,"body":"the rest of your business"},{"startTime":3147.69,"endTime":3150.57,"body":"Maybe your working agreements"},{"startTime":3147.69,"endTime":3150.57,"body":"get adjusted based on the"},{"startTime":3150.57,"endTime":3152.88,"body":"things you find and the"},{"startTime":3150.57,"endTime":3152.88,"body":"things you find don't need"},{"startTime":3152.88,"endTime":3154.35,"body":"to be in this document."},{"startTime":3154.35,"endTime":3156.99,"body":"Or you're like, you know, you,"},{"startTime":3154.35,"endTime":3156.99,"body":"when you change your goals as"},{"startTime":3156.99,"endTime":3160.11,"body":"you accomplish goals, maybe your"},{"startTime":3156.99,"endTime":3160.11,"body":"new goals go into this document."},{"startTime":3160.11,"endTime":3162.09,"body":"This document, whether"},{"startTime":3160.11,"endTime":3162.09,"body":"it's one page or two,"},{"startTime":3162.09,"endTime":3163.1,"body":"doesn't really matter."},{"startTime":3163.38,"endTime":3166.89,"body":"Is the single most important"},{"startTime":3163.38,"endTime":3166.89,"body":"artifact where everyone is"},{"startTime":3166.89,"endTime":3168.21,"body":"aligning themselves to it."},{"startTime":3168.26,"endTime":3170.78,"body":"Otherwise, you're not"},{"startTime":3168.26,"endTime":3170.78,"body":"gonna build the right"},{"startTime":3170.78,"endTime":3172.13,"body":"thing for the right people."},{"startTime":3172.23,"endTime":3174.03,"body":"So, when I said solution"},{"startTime":3172.23,"endTime":3174.03,"body":"earlier, I should"},{"startTime":3174.03,"endTime":3174.69,"body":"have said product."},{"startTime":3174.69,"endTime":3176.84,"body":"What is our product is, I'm"},{"startTime":3174.69,"endTime":3176.84,"body":"thinking about like the Geoffrey"},{"startTime":3176.865,"endTime":3178.97,"body":"Moore you know, our product."},{"startTime":3178.97,"endTime":3180.92,"body":"So if you put all of those"},{"startTime":3178.97,"endTime":3180.92,"body":"things in, you're gonna"},{"startTime":3180.92,"endTime":3182.3,"body":"exceed a page, I suspect."},{"startTime":3182.85,"endTime":3185.89,"body":"You very well could, I mean,"},{"startTime":3182.85,"endTime":3185.89,"body":"the Amazon six pager is the"},{"startTime":3185.89,"endTime":3189.45,"body":"industry, gold standard that"},{"startTime":3185.89,"endTime":3189.45,"body":"people will reference for this."},{"startTime":3189.45,"endTime":3191.67,"body":"But I'm saying like,"},{"startTime":3189.45,"endTime":3191.67,"body":"start with a page."},{"startTime":3191.94,"endTime":3192.24,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":3192.44,"endTime":3193.58,"body":"see what you can get from there."},{"startTime":3193.58,"endTime":3195.815,"body":"See what kind of alignment if"},{"startTime":3193.58,"endTime":3195.815,"body":"you can't get enough alignment,"},{"startTime":3195.865,"endTime":3197.155,"body":"expand it, you know what I mean?"},{"startTime":3197.425,"endTime":3198.055,"body":"Two pages."},{"startTime":3198.12,"endTime":3201.33,"body":"I personally think just what"},{"startTime":3198.12,"endTime":3201.33,"body":"we talked about, vision,"},{"startTime":3201.33,"endTime":3202.29,"body":"goals, working agreements."},{"startTime":3202.38,"endTime":3204.21,"body":"I think you're"},{"startTime":3202.38,"endTime":3204.21,"body":"already two pages."},{"startTime":3204.21,"endTime":3204.54,"body":"Yeah, I agree."},{"startTime":3204.73,"endTime":3208.62,"body":"So I could see"},{"startTime":3204.73,"endTime":3208.62,"body":"starting per product."},{"startTime":3208.9,"endTime":3212.02,"body":"Or if it gets larger,"},{"startTime":3208.9,"endTime":3212.02,"body":"you could do this type of"},{"startTime":3212.02,"endTime":3214.18,"body":"document per large feature,"},{"startTime":3214.61,"endTime":3218.6,"body":"like big roadmap, pivot"},{"startTime":3214.61,"endTime":3218.6,"body":"type of yearly refocusing."},{"startTime":3218.65,"endTime":3221.17,"body":"Or maybe quarterly"},{"startTime":3218.65,"endTime":3221.17,"body":"planning type of refocus."},{"startTime":3221.17,"endTime":3223.27,"body":"this is our next document"},{"startTime":3221.17,"endTime":3223.27,"body":"that everyone agrees on."},{"startTime":3223.57,"endTime":3226.03,"body":"I think the important"},{"startTime":3223.57,"endTime":3226.03,"body":"thing is that you"},{"startTime":3226.03,"endTime":3227.59,"body":"reference this throughout."},{"startTime":3227.83,"endTime":3227.95,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":3227.95,"endTime":3231.16,"body":"Because if it is not something"},{"startTime":3227.95,"endTime":3231.16,"body":"that you do and then put away or"},{"startTime":3231.16,"endTime":3232.69,"body":"mount on a wall and it's done."},{"startTime":3232.79,"endTime":3235.085,"body":"Much like the other podcast"},{"startTime":3232.79,"endTime":3235.085,"body":"that we talked about"},{"startTime":3235.085,"endTime":3236.375,"body":"with vision and mission."},{"startTime":3236.645,"endTime":3239.6,"body":"This is something that you"},{"startTime":3236.645,"endTime":3239.6,"body":"really need to keep coming back"},{"startTime":3239.6,"endTime":3244.39,"body":"to whenever there's any kind"},{"startTime":3239.6,"endTime":3244.39,"body":"of, disagreements or dissent or"},{"startTime":3244.72,"endTime":3249.03,"body":"deviations from the mainstream"},{"startTime":3244.72,"endTime":3249.03,"body":"understanding of what your"},{"startTime":3249.03,"endTime":3250.41,"body":"product or product line is."},{"startTime":3250.56,"endTime":3252.72,"body":"I don't know if we've disagreed"},{"startTime":3250.56,"endTime":3252.72,"body":"on this at all actually."},{"startTime":3252.9,"endTime":3254.55,"body":"Yeah, I think it's"},{"startTime":3252.9,"endTime":3254.55,"body":"super important to align"},{"startTime":3254.55,"endTime":3255.21,"body":"at the vision level."},{"startTime":3255.31,"endTime":3258.54,"body":"so with all the points"},{"startTime":3255.31,"endTime":3258.54,"body":"tallied up all things"},{"startTime":3258.54,"endTime":3259.71,"body":"being equal, that's right."},{"startTime":3259.74,"endTime":3262.35,"body":"Arch two, D two and"},{"startTime":3259.74,"endTime":3262.35,"body":"C3 po are equal."},{"startTime":3262.38,"endTime":3263.19,"body":"That's what I'm saying."},{"startTime":3263.58,"endTime":3268.19,"body":"We've got a 11 in the"},{"startTime":3263.58,"endTime":3268.19,"body":"four category and nine"},{"startTime":3268.43,"endTime":3269.84,"body":"in the against category."},{"startTime":3270.02,"endTime":3272.63,"body":"And I think the nine is"},{"startTime":3270.02,"endTime":3272.63,"body":"only because R 2D two only"},{"startTime":3272.63,"endTime":3277.04,"body":"counts as one R two, D two"},{"startTime":3272.63,"endTime":3277.04,"body":"and C3 PO counts as three po."},{"startTime":3277.31,"endTime":3277.79,"body":"That's right."},{"startTime":3278.18,"endTime":3279.47,"body":"So it's 11 against nine."},{"startTime":3279.51,"endTime":3282.6,"body":"Communication has become"},{"startTime":3279.51,"endTime":3282.6,"body":"the primary job of the pm."},{"startTime":3282.6,"endTime":3285.06,"body":"That's what we've agreed on"},{"startTime":3282.6,"endTime":3285.06,"body":"today, or at least that's"},{"startTime":3285.06,"endTime":3286.08,"body":"what the numbers tell us."},{"startTime":3286.18,"endTime":3289.36,"body":"I am salty about losing"},{"startTime":3286.18,"endTime":3289.36,"body":"this battle because I don't"},{"startTime":3289.36,"endTime":3291.59,"body":"know if I agree with this"},{"startTime":3289.36,"endTime":3291.59,"body":"one, but I'm just happy"},{"startTime":3291.59,"endTime":3292.91,"body":"that both teams had fun."},{"startTime":3293.15,"endTime":3294.05,"body":"There you go, man."},{"startTime":3294.05,"endTime":3295.61,"body":"And that's the most"},{"startTime":3294.05,"endTime":3295.61,"body":"important thing, right?"},{"startTime":3295.88,"endTime":3298.62,"body":"Let us know in comments"},{"startTime":3295.88,"endTime":3298.62,"body":"down below what you"},{"startTime":3298.62,"endTime":3299.79,"body":"think about these things."},{"startTime":3299.82,"endTime":3301.62,"body":"And don't forget to"},{"startTime":3299.82,"endTime":3301.62,"body":"like and subscribe."},{"startTime":3301.86,"endTime":3302.85,"body":"We'll see you next time."}]}