{"version":"1.0.0","segments":[{"startTime":0.0,"endTime":2.609,"body":"The original cold open was"},{"startTime":0.0,"endTime":2.609,"body":"gonna be like, Hey man,"},{"startTime":2.609,"endTime":4.739,"body":"have you checked anything"},{"startTime":2.609,"endTime":4.739,"body":"into production in a while?"},{"startTime":4.919,"endTime":6.45,"body":"It'd be a lot cooler if you did."},{"startTime":6.75,"endTime":9.009,"body":"Now, now it's the boss"},{"startTime":6.75,"endTime":9.009,"body":"standing over your desk going,"},{"startTime":9.309,"endTime":12.549,"body":"yeah, I'm gonna need you to"},{"startTime":9.309,"endTime":12.549,"body":"vibe code that feature into"},{"startTime":12.549,"endTime":14.529,"body":"production in the next hour."},{"startTime":14.529,"endTime":15.489,"body":"Those tps reports."},{"startTime":19.552,"endTime":21.622,"body":"The terrifying world"},{"startTime":19.552,"endTime":21.622,"body":"of vibe coding."},{"startTime":21.622,"endTime":22.843,"body":"That's what we're"},{"startTime":21.622,"endTime":22.843,"body":"talking about today."},{"startTime":22.973,"endTime":24.813,"body":"Lenar's back on the podcast."},{"startTime":24.863,"endTime":24.923,"body":"Yay."},{"startTime":25.108,"endTime":25.828,"body":"Welcome Lenar."},{"startTime":26.003,"endTime":26.673,"body":"Welcome back, Lenar."},{"startTime":26.693,"endTime":26.933,"body":"Okay."},{"startTime":27.148,"endTime":27.348,"body":"Thank you."},{"startTime":27.353,"endTime":27.743,"body":"Thank you."},{"startTime":27.843,"endTime":30.303,"body":"Again, most people that listen"},{"startTime":27.843,"endTime":30.303,"body":"to the podcast know that I like"},{"startTime":30.303,"endTime":34.793,"body":"to wait until the headlines die"},{"startTime":30.303,"endTime":34.793,"body":"down before I really explore"},{"startTime":34.793,"endTime":35.813,"body":"something on the podcast."},{"startTime":36.113,"endTime":38.173,"body":"Because there's enough YouTube"},{"startTime":36.113,"endTime":38.173,"body":"channels and stuff doing that"},{"startTime":38.173,"endTime":40.333,"body":"where it's like, that's just"},{"startTime":38.173,"endTime":40.333,"body":"not where I'm trying to compete."},{"startTime":40.333,"endTime":41.953,"body":"You are too cool for that also."},{"startTime":41.953,"endTime":42.283,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":42.283,"endTime":44.503,"body":"We're like the we we're"},{"startTime":42.283,"endTime":44.503,"body":"the AI hipsters . We were"},{"startTime":44.503,"endTime":45.438,"body":"doing ai That's right."},{"startTime":45.703,"endTime":46.993,"body":"Well, before it was cool."},{"startTime":47.213,"endTime":49.163,"body":"Speaking of doing ai,"},{"startTime":47.213,"endTime":49.163,"body":"well before, it was cool"},{"startTime":49.473,"endTime":51.263,"body":"this is your topic Lenar,"},{"startTime":49.473,"endTime":51.263,"body":"you brought it to me."},{"startTime":51.263,"endTime":53.633,"body":"You're like, Hey, have you ever"},{"startTime":51.263,"endTime":53.633,"body":"had a podcast on vibe coding?"},{"startTime":53.783,"endTime":56.603,"body":"Can we define what that is first"},{"startTime":53.783,"endTime":56.603,"body":"for those people that are like"},{"startTime":56.723,"endTime":58.223,"body":"tuning in going, what's that?"},{"startTime":58.523,"endTime":60.803,"body":"I will say vibe coding"},{"startTime":58.523,"endTime":60.803,"body":"is something that"},{"startTime":60.853,"endTime":62.473,"body":"true engineers hate."},{"startTime":62.893,"endTime":62.953,"body":"Oh."},{"startTime":62.953,"endTime":67.293,"body":"But business executives and,"},{"startTime":62.953,"endTime":67.293,"body":"and early stage founders love."},{"startTime":67.773,"endTime":69.693,"body":"You barely find people"},{"startTime":67.773,"endTime":69.693,"body":"who are neutral about it."},{"startTime":69.773,"endTime":71.063,"body":"Everyone has an opinion on that."},{"startTime":71.363,"endTime":73.193,"body":"And you guys too, and me too."},{"startTime":73.493,"endTime":76.073,"body":"So obviously there"},{"startTime":73.493,"endTime":76.073,"body":"are pros and cons."},{"startTime":76.173,"endTime":79.833,"body":"when it comes to pros, it's"},{"startTime":76.173,"endTime":79.833,"body":"definitely, it will let"},{"startTime":79.833,"endTime":81.393,"body":"you build things faster."},{"startTime":81.398,"endTime":81.408,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":81.708,"endTime":84.588,"body":"And go to the market faster"},{"startTime":81.708,"endTime":84.588,"body":"and acquire customers faster."},{"startTime":84.588,"endTime":84.888,"body":"Right."},{"startTime":85.388,"endTime":87.413,"body":"But obviously you have to"},{"startTime":85.388,"endTime":87.413,"body":"know what you're doing."},{"startTime":87.463,"endTime":90.353,"body":"When it comes to disadvantages"},{"startTime":87.463,"endTime":90.353,"body":"a lot of developers will"},{"startTime":90.353,"endTime":93.383,"body":"complain that, vibe coating"},{"startTime":90.353,"endTime":93.383,"body":"is basically creating and"},{"startTime":93.383,"endTime":94.823,"body":"generating spaghetti code."},{"startTime":94.973,"endTime":95.123,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":95.213,"endTime":97.463,"body":"And now I have to refactor it"},{"startTime":95.213,"endTime":97.463,"body":"and I have to deal with it."},{"startTime":97.793,"endTime":99.113,"body":"And it's our nature."},{"startTime":99.113,"endTime":102.263,"body":"Human nature is creating"},{"startTime":99.113,"endTime":102.263,"body":"things, but then you're"},{"startTime":102.263,"endTime":105.523,"body":"forcing developers dealing"},{"startTime":102.263,"endTime":105.523,"body":"with someone else's mistakes."},{"startTime":105.733,"endTime":107.473,"body":"In this case, AI"},{"startTime":105.733,"endTime":107.473,"body":"mistakes, right?"},{"startTime":107.523,"endTime":107.973,"body":"So,"},{"startTime":108.163,"endTime":111.493,"body":"Like a nuanced take on vibe"},{"startTime":108.163,"endTime":111.493,"body":"coding ugh, that's, not"},{"startTime":111.493,"endTime":112.423,"body":"what Silicon Valley wants."},{"startTime":112.423,"endTime":114.553,"body":"But I mean, we're gonna"},{"startTime":112.423,"endTime":114.553,"body":"dig into it today, I guess."},{"startTime":114.603,"endTime":116.033,"body":"Are you gonna be along"},{"startTime":114.603,"endTime":116.033,"body":"for this ride?, are you"},{"startTime":116.033,"endTime":116.753,"body":"signing off for this?"},{"startTime":116.753,"endTime":117.833,"body":"I'm signing up for this."},{"startTime":117.883,"endTime":119.953,"body":"I just wanted to explain"},{"startTime":117.883,"endTime":119.953,"body":"to those that don't really"},{"startTime":119.953,"endTime":121.483,"body":"know what the term means."},{"startTime":121.543,"endTime":126.343,"body":"It's basically looking at using"},{"startTime":121.543,"endTime":126.343,"body":"tools like AI to create code."},{"startTime":126.523,"endTime":126.643,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":126.643,"endTime":128.443,"body":"Without actually"},{"startTime":126.643,"endTime":128.443,"body":"having expertise to"},{"startTime":128.443,"endTime":129.463,"body":"create code 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I"},{"startTime":147.593,"endTime":151.743,"body":"have a hangup and if I ever did"},{"startTime":147.593,"endTime":151.743,"body":"a tech event or presented at"},{"startTime":151.743,"endTime":155.733,"body":"the product event or whatever,"},{"startTime":151.743,"endTime":155.733,"body":"MVP would be my presentation,"},{"startTime":156.003,"endTime":160.313,"body":"because the term MVP is so"},{"startTime":156.003,"endTime":160.313,"body":"loaded with so many different"},{"startTime":160.313,"endTime":164.173,"body":"things that the original"},{"startTime":160.313,"endTime":164.173,"body":"meaning of what MVP was supposed"},{"startTime":164.173,"endTime":165.373,"body":"to be has just been lost."},{"startTime":165.373,"endTime":167.143,"body":"It's just like"},{"startTime":165.373,"endTime":167.143,"body":"it's unrecoverable."},{"startTime":167.243,"endTime":169.943,"body":"It's like that car that you"},{"startTime":167.243,"endTime":169.943,"body":"really love, but it's got"},{"startTime":169.943,"endTime":172.463,"body":"right around 180,000 miles"},{"startTime":169.943,"endTime":172.463,"body":"on it and you're like, Ooh"},{"startTime":172.473,"endTime":175.203,"body":"I could buy a new car and be"},{"startTime":172.473,"endTime":175.203,"body":"spending less in maintenance."},{"startTime":175.683,"endTime":176.793,"body":"It's time to let it go."},{"startTime":176.793,"endTime":178.233,"body":"Like that's MVP to me."},{"startTime":178.293,"endTime":179.523,"body":"I really, I love it."},{"startTime":179.793,"endTime":182.673,"body":"It's day has come and gone,"},{"startTime":179.793,"endTime":182.673,"body":"but I can't keep it in."},{"startTime":182.673,"endTime":185.193,"body":"Well, everyone has their"},{"startTime":182.673,"endTime":185.193,"body":"own definition of MVP."},{"startTime":185.253,"endTime":186.213,"body":"Like what's MVP?"},{"startTime":186.263,"endTime":186.264,"body":"Right."},{"startTime":186.413,"endTime":189.143,"body":"So MVP is like something, I'm"},{"startTime":186.413,"endTime":189.143,"body":"gonna build something scrappy,"},{"startTime":189.143,"endTime":192.293,"body":"I'm going to send it to the"},{"startTime":189.143,"endTime":192.293,"body":"market, and then someone else"},{"startTime":192.293,"endTime":195.953,"body":"will buy it, test it for me,"},{"startTime":192.293,"endTime":195.953,"body":"give me feedback for free,"},{"startTime":196.163,"endTime":197.423,"body":"and then I'm gonna iterate."},{"startTime":197.428,"endTime":197.888,"body":"Right, right."},{"startTime":197.888,"endTime":199.568,"body":"Is that, is this"},{"startTime":197.888,"endTime":199.568,"body":"happening right now?"},{"startTime":199.568,"endTime":200.198,"body":"I don't think so."},{"startTime":200.498,"endTime":200.798,"body":"I don't know."},{"startTime":200.798,"endTime":201.668,"body":"It depends on the product."},{"startTime":201.668,"endTime":203.198,"body":"I feel like there are"},{"startTime":201.668,"endTime":203.198,"body":"some products out there"},{"startTime":203.198,"endTime":205.538,"body":"that basically treat"},{"startTime":203.198,"endTime":205.538,"body":"the market as their."},{"startTime":205.868,"endTime":207.578,"body":"You know, qa,"},{"startTime":205.868,"endTime":207.578,"body":"throw it out there."},{"startTime":207.628,"endTime":209.188,"body":"And then get feedback for free."},{"startTime":209.198,"endTime":210.518,"body":"it's a lot cheaper"},{"startTime":209.198,"endTime":210.518,"body":"than hiring QA people."},{"startTime":210.728,"endTime":211.058,"body":"Oh man."},{"startTime":211.058,"endTime":212.228,"body":"Do we know any"},{"startTime":211.058,"endTime":212.228,"body":"products like that?"},{"startTime":212.528,"endTime":215.328,"body":"There are so many tools"},{"startTime":212.528,"endTime":215.328,"body":"out there, like users"},{"startTime":215.448,"endTime":218.328,"body":"watch quite, that should be"},{"startTime":215.448,"endTime":218.328,"body":"testing, like what theory?"},{"startTime":218.328,"endTime":220.758,"body":"Tools in parallel and"},{"startTime":218.328,"endTime":220.758,"body":"giving honest feedback."},{"startTime":220.998,"endTime":223.038,"body":"Right now, users just"},{"startTime":220.998,"endTime":223.038,"body":"wanna test things."},{"startTime":223.188,"endTime":225.418,"body":"If it's \"not good\", they good"},{"startTime":223.188,"endTime":225.418,"body":"they just wanna throw it away."},{"startTime":225.478,"endTime":226.898,"body":"Yeah , they're not"},{"startTime":225.478,"endTime":226.898,"body":"interested in your success."},{"startTime":227.048,"endTime":229.838,"body":"So vibe coding is"},{"startTime":227.048,"endTime":229.838,"body":"solving the problem."},{"startTime":229.868,"endTime":233.138,"body":"MVP, which as we agreed,"},{"startTime":229.868,"endTime":233.138,"body":"doesn't exist, right."},{"startTime":233.198,"endTime":236.468,"body":"With this amount of tools that"},{"startTime":233.198,"endTime":236.468,"body":"we have right now, but also like"},{"startTime":236.478,"endTime":239.898,"body":"scaling and VCs and investors."},{"startTime":240.303,"endTime":243.543,"body":"Customers, they all already"},{"startTime":240.303,"endTime":243.543,"body":"want ready to go product.."},{"startTime":243.593,"endTime":246.563,"body":"That they can inject Naturally"},{"startTime":243.593,"endTime":246.563,"body":"into their workflows."},{"startTime":246.743,"endTime":250.103,"body":"It's almost like VCs talk"},{"startTime":246.743,"endTime":250.103,"body":"about MVP, but what they"},{"startTime":250.103,"endTime":253.073,"body":"really want is a fully"},{"startTime":250.103,"endTime":253.073,"body":"built out working product."},{"startTime":253.073,"endTime":255.263,"body":". Yesterday with customers"},{"startTime":253.073,"endTime":255.263,"body":"with minimum investment,"},{"startTime":255.263,"endTime":257.773,"body":"with existing customers And"},{"startTime":255.263,"endTime":257.773,"body":"recurring stream revenue."},{"startTime":257.923,"endTime":261.343,"body":"But the spirit of speed to"},{"startTime":257.923,"endTime":261.343,"body":"innovation is like, it's not"},{"startTime":261.343,"endTime":263.083,"body":"for the vultures and it's"},{"startTime":261.343,"endTime":263.083,"body":"not for the big companies."},{"startTime":263.083,"endTime":266.063,"body":"I feel the spirit of innovation,"},{"startTime":263.083,"endTime":266.063,"body":"this category where it gets"},{"startTime":266.063,"endTime":269.508,"body":"traction for me is if you're"},{"startTime":266.063,"endTime":269.508,"body":"doing something by yourself or"},{"startTime":269.633,"endTime":273.523,"body":"if there's like two or three"},{"startTime":269.633,"endTime":273.523,"body":"people and like at that point"},{"startTime":273.823,"endTime":275.053,"body":"you have a big advantage."},{"startTime":275.303,"endTime":277.643,"body":"If you don't know what"},{"startTime":275.303,"endTime":277.643,"body":"you're doing, seriously,"},{"startTime":277.643,"endTime":278.423,"body":"if you don't know"},{"startTime":278.423,"endTime":279.743,"body":"you, you're new into a market."},{"startTime":280.223,"endTime":284.333,"body":"Or a segment of the market,"},{"startTime":280.223,"endTime":284.333,"body":"then vibe coating gives you an"},{"startTime":284.333,"endTime":286.643,"body":"advantage because you can try"},{"startTime":284.333,"endTime":286.643,"body":"and get something out there,"},{"startTime":286.643,"endTime":289.133,"body":"even if it gets knocked down,"},{"startTime":286.643,"endTime":289.133,"body":"but you get there quicker."},{"startTime":289.473,"endTime":291.393,"body":"So time to market is"},{"startTime":289.473,"endTime":291.393,"body":"really what I'm driving at."},{"startTime":291.393,"endTime":294.453,"body":"It is a lot quicker or"},{"startTime":291.393,"endTime":294.453,"body":"shorter, I should say, time"},{"startTime":294.453,"endTime":298.263,"body":"to market's shorter using"},{"startTime":294.453,"endTime":298.263,"body":"techniques like wipe coating."},{"startTime":298.653,"endTime":298.743,"body":"Mm-hmm."},{"startTime":299.043,"endTime":299.433,"body":"Yeah, I agree."},{"startTime":299.433,"endTime":303.123,"body":"I think before we, we used to"},{"startTime":299.433,"endTime":303.123,"body":"have a scenario where companies"},{"startTime":303.123,"endTime":306.993,"body":"were attracting investments"},{"startTime":303.123,"endTime":306.993,"body":"even being pre-revenue, but they"},{"startTime":306.993,"endTime":309.633,"body":"already had a team of like six"},{"startTime":306.993,"endTime":309.633,"body":"developers working on it, and"},{"startTime":309.633,"endTime":312.973,"body":"it will take them like six to"},{"startTime":309.633,"endTime":312.973,"body":"eight months right now founders"},{"startTime":313.093,"endTime":316.213,"body":"and everyone who is building"},{"startTime":313.093,"endTime":316.213,"body":"an MVP or early stage product,"},{"startTime":316.513,"endTime":318.253,"body":"they built it fast, right?"},{"startTime":318.613,"endTime":320.743,"body":"And then they deal"},{"startTime":318.613,"endTime":320.743,"body":"with scalability later."},{"startTime":320.793,"endTime":320.953,"body":"yeah."},{"startTime":321.088,"endTime":323.038,"body":"You know, , that's, I think"},{"startTime":321.088,"endTime":323.038,"body":"that's the best thing about"},{"startTime":323.038,"endTime":326.218,"body":"vibe coding is that everyone"},{"startTime":323.038,"endTime":326.218,"body":"is a founder now, but the"},{"startTime":326.218,"endTime":328.898,"body":"negative side about it,"},{"startTime":326.218,"endTime":328.898,"body":"everyone has a micro SaaS"},{"startTime":329.068,"endTime":331.408,"body":"or, or, or any other tool."},{"startTime":331.408,"endTime":334.168,"body":"So amount of tools that's"},{"startTime":331.408,"endTime":334.168,"body":"available in the market is."},{"startTime":334.468,"endTime":335.398,"body":"Crazy right now."},{"startTime":335.818,"endTime":335.878,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":335.878,"endTime":338.778,"body":"Everyone is dumping prices"},{"startTime":335.878,"endTime":338.778,"body":"to get their customers."},{"startTime":338.808,"endTime":340.818,"body":"Value is not necessary there."},{"startTime":341.118,"endTime":343.788,"body":"but investors are"},{"startTime":341.118,"endTime":343.788,"body":"obviously interested in"},{"startTime":344.118,"endTime":345.678,"body":"enterprise level product."},{"startTime":345.727,"endTime":347.948,"body":"which they can lock"},{"startTime":345.727,"endTime":347.948,"body":"large customers in"},{"startTime":348.337,"endTime":349.357,"body":"like Jira for example."},{"startTime":349.688,"endTime":353.078,"body":"And they cannot, and they"},{"startTime":349.688,"endTime":353.078,"body":"cannot move away from it"},{"startTime":353.128,"endTime":354.478,"body":"so, but I'm just curious."},{"startTime":354.478,"endTime":357.378,"body":"Like in three to five years,"},{"startTime":354.478,"endTime":357.378,"body":"will, there be any startup"},{"startTime":357.378,"endTime":361.818,"body":"that will become unicorn"},{"startTime":357.378,"endTime":361.818,"body":"and it had like 80% or more"},{"startTime":361.818,"endTime":363.198,"body":"code was generated by ai."},{"startTime":363.528,"endTime":366.808,"body":"I think like enterprise level"},{"startTime":363.528,"endTime":366.808,"body":"customers, I personally believe"},{"startTime":366.808,"endTime":369.438,"body":"so I think you're looking at"},{"startTime":366.808,"endTime":369.438,"body":"probably somewhere around the"},{"startTime":369.438,"endTime":373.318,"body":"two years, give or take a little"},{"startTime":369.438,"endTime":373.318,"body":"where you will see that now as"},{"startTime":373.318,"endTime":377.578,"body":"far as the viability of that,"},{"startTime":373.318,"endTime":377.578,"body":"that remains to be seen, right?"},{"startTime":377.582,"endTime":377.712,"body":"Mm-hmm."},{"startTime":377.877,"endTime":379.198,"body":"But you'll see,"},{"startTime":377.877,"endTime":379.198,"body":"that is my belief."},{"startTime":379.698,"endTime":382.228,"body":"Within the next two to three"},{"startTime":379.698,"endTime":382.228,"body":"years, especially based"},{"startTime":382.228,"endTime":385.378,"body":"on just the sheer rate of"},{"startTime":382.228,"endTime":385.378,"body":"progress in this field."},{"startTime":385.677,"endTime":386.967,"body":"Yeah, it's mind blowing."},{"startTime":387.237,"endTime":387.837,"body":"It really is."},{"startTime":388.137,"endTime":389.007,"body":"So that's what I think."},{"startTime":389.067,"endTime":391.197,"body":"I think you're gonna see"},{"startTime":389.067,"endTime":391.197,"body":"that it may crash and burn"},{"startTime":391.197,"endTime":394.617,"body":"quickly, but then along comes"},{"startTime":391.197,"endTime":394.617,"body":"the next version and so on."},{"startTime":394.617,"endTime":394.887,"body":"Right."},{"startTime":395.127,"endTime":397.167,"body":"For the next player"},{"startTime":395.127,"endTime":397.167,"body":"with another product."},{"startTime":397.317,"endTime":399.717,"body":"I don't think there's"},{"startTime":397.317,"endTime":399.717,"body":"anything that can stop this."},{"startTime":399.867,"endTime":401.217,"body":"There's not really"},{"startTime":399.867,"endTime":401.217,"body":"a lot of pushback on"},{"startTime":401.217,"endTime":401.967,"body":"speed and innovation."},{"startTime":402.307,"endTime":404.977,"body":"the only pushback on speed"},{"startTime":402.307,"endTime":404.977,"body":"and innovation would be if"},{"startTime":404.977,"endTime":408.787,"body":"you vibe code your way through"},{"startTime":404.977,"endTime":408.787,"body":"a working functional MVP."},{"startTime":409.087,"endTime":413.527,"body":"And now you keep like, buckling"},{"startTime":409.087,"endTime":413.527,"body":"on modules and additions"},{"startTime":413.527,"endTime":414.607,"body":"and you know what I mean?"},{"startTime":414.607,"endTime":417.307,"body":"You've built this Frankenstein"},{"startTime":414.607,"endTime":417.307,"body":"of a not, not, not so I don't,"},{"startTime":417.727,"endTime":420.757,"body":"I'm only lightly bringing up"},{"startTime":417.727,"endTime":420.757,"body":"pushback because in reality"},{"startTime":420.757,"endTime":423.607,"body":"I've worked on real software"},{"startTime":420.757,"endTime":423.607,"body":"development teams with real"},{"startTime":423.607,"endTime":426.037,"body":"professional developers"},{"startTime":423.607,"endTime":426.037,"body":"who don't vibe anything."},{"startTime":426.517,"endTime":426.667,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":426.877,"endTime":428.977,"body":"Who build monstrosities"},{"startTime":426.877,"endTime":428.977,"body":"like this Sure."},{"startTime":428.977,"endTime":429.517,"body":"By hand."},{"startTime":429.517,"endTime":430.777,"body":"So now you can do it faster."},{"startTime":430.807,"endTime":431.737,"body":"Now you're doing it faster."},{"startTime":431.737,"endTime":432.067,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":432.427,"endTime":432.592,"body":"Without knowing"},{"startTime":432.427,"endTime":432.592,"body":"what you're doing."},{"startTime":432.637,"endTime":435.597,"body":"That's okay I, so like, I'm"},{"startTime":432.637,"endTime":435.597,"body":"gonna save my real pushback"},{"startTime":435.777,"endTime":438.517,"body":"for later in the podcast things"},{"startTime":435.777,"endTime":438.517,"body":"I want to talk about, but the"},{"startTime":438.517,"endTime":441.967,"body":"next category that we lead"},{"startTime":438.517,"endTime":441.967,"body":"into with this conversation"},{"startTime":441.967,"endTime":443.887,"body":"is professional developers."},{"startTime":443.887,"endTime":447.097,"body":"what happens to the class"},{"startTime":443.887,"endTime":447.097,"body":"of professional developers?"},{"startTime":447.307,"endTime":450.337,"body":"'cause my dystopian future"},{"startTime":447.307,"endTime":450.337,"body":"for this of like, vibe coding"},{"startTime":450.337,"endTime":452.797,"body":"tools are everywhere and"},{"startTime":450.337,"endTime":452.797,"body":"everyone is like, it becomes"},{"startTime":452.797,"endTime":455.127,"body":"ingrained in the culture"},{"startTime":452.797,"endTime":455.127,"body":"that, oh, you've gotta buy the"},{"startTime":455.127,"endTime":457.317,"body":"latest vibe, coding tools, and"},{"startTime":455.127,"endTime":457.317,"body":"you've gotta buy the latest."},{"startTime":457.797,"endTime":460.197,"body":"You know, a hundred dollars"},{"startTime":457.797,"endTime":460.197,"body":"a month Claude subscription"},{"startTime":460.197,"endTime":462.827,"body":"or you gotta get on, on"},{"startTime":460.197,"endTime":462.827,"body":"board with the latest and"},{"startTime":462.827,"endTime":464.177,"body":"greatest tools all the time."},{"startTime":464.717,"endTime":467.747,"body":"What happens to the professional"},{"startTime":464.717,"endTime":467.747,"body":"developers that are out there?"},{"startTime":467.927,"endTime":469.187,"body":"Like, do they go extinct?"},{"startTime":469.397,"endTime":472.727,"body":"Do they turn into full-time"},{"startTime":469.397,"endTime":472.727,"body":"debuggers where we don't"},{"startTime":472.727,"endTime":476.417,"body":"go to them to build"},{"startTime":472.727,"endTime":476.417,"body":"our new stuff first?"},{"startTime":476.417,"endTime":479.567,"body":"We just go to like random"},{"startTime":476.417,"endTime":479.567,"body":"people that are good at"},{"startTime":479.567,"endTime":482.657,"body":"vibe coding, and then they"},{"startTime":479.567,"endTime":482.657,"body":"shake out the solution."},{"startTime":482.847,"endTime":484.497,"body":"Even in the previous category"},{"startTime":482.847,"endTime":484.497,"body":"where I was talking about"},{"startTime":484.497,"endTime":487.927,"body":"like mo putting together the"},{"startTime":484.497,"endTime":487.927,"body":"Frankenstein of software mm-hmm."},{"startTime":488.227,"endTime":491.127,"body":"You need at some point,"},{"startTime":488.227,"endTime":491.127,"body":"somebody, who actually"},{"startTime":491.127,"endTime":493.077,"body":"understands how software"},{"startTime":491.127,"endTime":493.077,"body":"is put together."},{"startTime":493.377,"endTime":496.437,"body":"If you're doing anything"},{"startTime":493.377,"endTime":496.437,"body":"other than I'm developing"},{"startTime":496.437,"endTime":498.777,"body":"this tiny little standalone"},{"startTime":496.437,"endTime":498.777,"body":"thing, it's gonna go out"},{"startTime":498.777,"endTime":500.637,"body":"there and sit out there for"},{"startTime":498.777,"endTime":500.637,"body":"one tiny business process"},{"startTime":500.637,"endTime":501.957,"body":"and never be touched again."},{"startTime":502.307,"endTime":505.187,"body":"If it's that, then"},{"startTime":502.307,"endTime":505.187,"body":"I'll see myself out."},{"startTime":505.207,"endTime":507.217,"body":"You've always needed"},{"startTime":505.207,"endTime":507.217,"body":"people that understand"},{"startTime":507.217,"endTime":508.597,"body":"how software works, right?"},{"startTime":508.987,"endTime":511.597,"body":"The difference now in"},{"startTime":508.987,"endTime":511.597,"body":"this latest model is"},{"startTime":512.047,"endTime":513.277,"body":"you need them later."},{"startTime":513.577,"endTime":515.887,"body":"You don't need them upfront"},{"startTime":513.577,"endTime":515.887,"body":"because you can get three"},{"startTime":515.887,"endTime":517.747,"body":"or four versions of what"},{"startTime":515.887,"endTime":517.747,"body":"you're doing out there"},{"startTime":518.107,"endTime":519.337,"body":"really, really quickly."},{"startTime":519.637,"endTime":522.727,"body":"When one of those takes traction"},{"startTime":519.637,"endTime":522.727,"body":"in the business or in the market"},{"startTime":523.177,"endTime":524.377,"body":"granted the quality isn't there."},{"startTime":524.377,"endTime":526.177,"body":"That might've been one of"},{"startTime":524.377,"endTime":526.177,"body":"the other pushbacks on the"},{"startTime":526.177,"endTime":528.427,"body":"previous category is, yeah,"},{"startTime":526.177,"endTime":528.427,"body":"you can get there quicker, but"},{"startTime":528.772,"endTime":529.912,"body":", what's the quality look like?"},{"startTime":529.962,"endTime":533.862,"body":"you need those people to"},{"startTime":529.962,"endTime":533.862,"body":"clean up the mess later."},{"startTime":534.162,"endTime":534.312,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":534.372,"endTime":536.412,"body":"That, that's what I"},{"startTime":534.372,"endTime":536.412,"body":"think is gonna happen."},{"startTime":536.417,"endTime":538.967,"body":"So will developers go extinct?"},{"startTime":539.087,"endTime":539.597,"body":"No."},{"startTime":539.647,"endTime":541.497,"body":"Will, development"},{"startTime":539.647,"endTime":541.497,"body":"jobs go extinct."},{"startTime":541.617,"endTime":542.037,"body":"No."},{"startTime":542.097,"endTime":542.427,"body":"Right?"},{"startTime":542.757,"endTime":545.247,"body":"So a lot of people are getting"},{"startTime":542.757,"endTime":545.247,"body":"something wrong about software"},{"startTime":545.247,"endTime":548.727,"body":"development and any code"},{"startTime":545.247,"endTime":548.727,"body":"related jobs, whether it's test"},{"startTime":548.727,"endTime":552.827,"body":"automation or DevOps, Only 20%"},{"startTime":548.727,"endTime":552.827,"body":"of the job is generating code."},{"startTime":553.127,"endTime":555.797,"body":"80% of the job is dealing"},{"startTime":553.127,"endTime":555.797,"body":"with existing issues."},{"startTime":556.027,"endTime":557.887,"body":"Scaling backend issues."},{"startTime":557.887,"endTime":559.717,"body":"There's some people having"},{"startTime":557.887,"endTime":559.717,"body":"heartburn right now, like"},{"startTime":559.717,"endTime":562.207,"body":"om, om knows all those people"},{"startTime":559.717,"endTime":562.207,"body":"having heartburn right now."},{"startTime":562.207,"endTime":563.107,"body":"But the people I do"},{"startTime":563.157,"endTime":564.057,"body":"I understand it."},{"startTime":564.912,"endTime":567.842,"body":"Om understands it, but there,"},{"startTime":564.912,"endTime":567.842,"body":"I've been in some programs at"},{"startTime":567.842,"endTime":570.152,"body":"large companies that they're,"},{"startTime":567.842,"endTime":570.152,"body":"they're trying to wring,"},{"startTime":570.212,"endTime":572.812,"body":"they're like, oh no, if you"},{"startTime":570.212,"endTime":572.812,"body":"don't if you're not hands on"},{"startTime":572.812,"endTime":577.372,"body":"keyboards, like typing away"},{"startTime":572.812,"endTime":577.372,"body":"code 70, 80% of your time,"},{"startTime":577.372,"endTime":578.422,"body":"they, they pick a number right?"},{"startTime":578.472,"endTime":580.032,"body":"Then it's a big deal."},{"startTime":580.092,"endTime":580.332,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":580.572,"endTime":582.732,"body":"About like, oh, oh, you"},{"startTime":580.572,"endTime":582.732,"body":"gotta get these people outta"},{"startTime":582.732,"endTime":583.932,"body":"these meetings or whatever."},{"startTime":584.232,"endTime":586.602,"body":"Maybe that's just like a, I"},{"startTime":584.232,"endTime":586.602,"body":"had a memory of like a bad"},{"startTime":586.602,"endTime":589.032,"body":"culture that just derailed"},{"startTime":586.602,"endTime":589.032,"body":"the conversation right now."},{"startTime":589.212,"endTime":593.552,"body":"But that's, it's in a shockingly"},{"startTime":589.212,"endTime":593.552,"body":"large amount of places that I've"},{"startTime":593.552,"endTime":594.842,"body":"been at that think like that."},{"startTime":595.052,"endTime":597.962,"body":"They don't think about software"},{"startTime":595.052,"endTime":597.962,"body":"development being a team sport."},{"startTime":598.262,"endTime":600.632,"body":"They think of it as being"},{"startTime":598.262,"endTime":600.632,"body":"oh, keep these, don't"},{"startTime":600.662,"endTime":601.832,"body":"distract these people from."},{"startTime":602.132,"endTime":602.732,"body":"Writing code."},{"startTime":603.032,"endTime":606.992,"body":"I think the, the speaking of"},{"startTime":603.032,"endTime":606.992,"body":"like the leader leadership"},{"startTime":607.022,"endTime":608.552,"body":"who doesn't understand"},{"startTime":607.022,"endTime":608.552,"body":"software development, right?"},{"startTime":608.882,"endTime":608.942,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":608.972,"endTime":612.172,"body":"Even if they, if they have"},{"startTime":608.972,"endTime":612.172,"body":"ability to save like 7% of the"},{"startTime":612.172,"endTime":615.202,"body":"time of develop of developers by"},{"startTime":612.172,"endTime":615.202,"body":"using ai, they will go for it."},{"startTime":615.322,"endTime":615.502,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":615.832,"endTime":616.432,"body":"Have to understand."},{"startTime":616.522,"endTime":618.442,"body":"So even 7% is huge advancement."},{"startTime":618.712,"endTime":621.712,"body":"Imagine companies making like"},{"startTime":618.712,"endTime":621.712,"body":"7% more in a year, right."},{"startTime":621.712,"endTime":622.882,"body":"In terms of revenue"},{"startTime":621.712,"endTime":622.882,"body":"or saving money."},{"startTime":622.882,"endTime":624.142,"body":"So it's a big deal."},{"startTime":624.142,"endTime":626.962,"body":"So even it's a 1%, 2%,"},{"startTime":624.142,"endTime":626.962,"body":"it's still a big deal."},{"startTime":626.962,"endTime":630.422,"body":"So coming back to the question,"},{"startTime":626.962,"endTime":630.422,"body":"developers will still be there."},{"startTime":630.797,"endTime":633.637,"body":"But I think, the description"},{"startTime":630.797,"endTime":633.637,"body":"of a developer will change."},{"startTime":633.907,"endTime":637.797,"body":"So a lot of teams they"},{"startTime":633.907,"endTime":637.797,"body":"already adopting AI as,"},{"startTime":638.067,"endTime":639.357,"body":"as a assistant, right?"},{"startTime":639.357,"endTime":639.597,"body":"Mm-hmm."},{"startTime":639.662,"endTime":640.887,"body":"Not as a replacement."},{"startTime":641.307,"endTime":644.537,"body":"So if you have developers"},{"startTime":641.307,"endTime":644.537,"body":"who already know what,"},{"startTime":644.687,"endTime":645.557,"body":"what is good code?"},{"startTime":645.647,"endTime":646.517,"body":"What is bad code?"},{"startTime":646.817,"endTime":648.527,"body":"These are the gold, right?"},{"startTime":648.527,"endTime":648.587,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":648.767,"endTime":649.517,"body":"These are gold."},{"startTime":649.697,"endTime":652.037,"body":"If you have a developer who"},{"startTime":649.697,"endTime":652.037,"body":"doesn't understand what they're"},{"startTime":652.037,"endTime":654.767,"body":"generating, what kind code, code"},{"startTime":652.037,"endTime":654.767,"body":"they're generating through ai,"},{"startTime":654.887,"endTime":657.297,"body":"and they don't understand what's"},{"startTime":654.887,"endTime":657.297,"body":"going on under the hood these"},{"startTime":657.297,"endTime":658.767,"body":"people will go extinct, right?"},{"startTime":659.217,"endTime":660.987,"body":"So scalability is another issue."},{"startTime":660.987,"endTime":662.267,"body":"I think I'm talk about it."},{"startTime":662.267,"endTime":665.447,"body":"It's it's a long term goal,"},{"startTime":662.267,"endTime":665.447,"body":"but the short term goal is"},{"startTime":665.497,"endTime":669.517,"body":"to stack up your team with"},{"startTime":665.497,"endTime":669.517,"body":"a team of developers who can"},{"startTime":669.517,"endTime":673.857,"body":"understand and can utilize AI"},{"startTime":669.517,"endTime":673.857,"body":"for themselves . scalability"},{"startTime":673.857,"endTime":677.637,"body":"is always like issue for"},{"startTime":673.857,"endTime":677.637,"body":"the last because yeah."},{"startTime":677.697,"endTime":681.657,"body":"If you build scrappy MVP and"},{"startTime":677.697,"endTime":681.657,"body":"ship it to the market mm-hmm."},{"startTime":682.037,"endTime":684.287,"body":"and now you already have"},{"startTime":682.037,"endTime":684.287,"body":"customers and you already have"},{"startTime":684.287,"endTime":686.957,"body":"revenue, it's way easier to"},{"startTime":684.287,"endTime":686.957,"body":"scale when you have revenue."},{"startTime":687.037,"endTime":687.327,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":687.332,"endTime":690.862,"body":"And it's way harder to scale"},{"startTime":687.332,"endTime":690.862,"body":"if you don't have revenue."},{"startTime":690.862,"endTime":691.372,"body":"We need money."},{"startTime":691.372,"endTime":694.042,"body":"You need to hire developers"},{"startTime":691.372,"endTime":694.042,"body":"and you cannot keep resisting"},{"startTime":694.042,"endTime":695.722,"body":"AI because you don't like it."},{"startTime":695.902,"endTime":696.052,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":696.057,"endTime":696.127,"body":"Right."},{"startTime":696.142,"endTime":698.932,"body":"You have to use it for your"},{"startTime":696.142,"endTime":698.932,"body":"own good, for your own business"},{"startTime":698.932,"endTime":701.602,"body":"and for more revenue, for more"},{"startTime":698.932,"endTime":701.602,"body":"customers, et cetera, et cetera."},{"startTime":701.602,"endTime":705.502,"body":"So these developers will be"},{"startTime":701.602,"endTime":705.502,"body":"there and they will flourish."},{"startTime":705.622,"endTime":708.892,"body":"They will have higher salaries,"},{"startTime":705.622,"endTime":708.892,"body":"they'll get a lot of offers"},{"startTime":708.892,"endTime":711.272,"body":"from companies with better jobs."},{"startTime":711.302,"endTime":712.377,"body":"Better opportunities."},{"startTime":712.857,"endTime":715.797,"body":"And we have, we keep"},{"startTime":712.857,"endTime":715.797,"body":"forgetting that AI."},{"startTime":716.097,"endTime":718.647,"body":"As a thing is like less than"},{"startTime":716.097,"endTime":718.647,"body":"three years old right now."},{"startTime":718.647,"endTime":720.837,"body":"We have, like I'm talking"},{"startTime":718.647,"endTime":720.837,"body":"about LLMs, right?"},{"startTime":720.837,"endTime":721.437,"body":"Mm-hmm."},{"startTime":721.448,"endTime":723.798,"body":"We expect too much from"},{"startTime":721.448,"endTime":723.798,"body":"everyone right now because of"},{"startTime":723.798,"endTime":725.988,"body":"the ai, we're thinking that"},{"startTime":723.798,"endTime":725.988,"body":"AI will automate everything,"},{"startTime":725.988,"endTime":728.898,"body":"but in reality, come on,"},{"startTime":725.988,"endTime":728.898,"body":"it's been three years only,"},{"startTime":729.078,"endTime":731.238,"body":"and you're saying in two"},{"startTime":729.078,"endTime":731.238,"body":"years we'll have unicorn."},{"startTime":731.288,"endTime":733.298,"body":"I think we're gonna"},{"startTime":731.288,"endTime":733.298,"body":"start to see that."},{"startTime":733.298,"endTime":736.508,"body":"But again, I also said that"},{"startTime":733.298,"endTime":736.508,"body":"they may crash and burn, right?"},{"startTime":736.548,"endTime":737.658,"body":"But that's when it will start."},{"startTime":737.658,"endTime":740.628,"body":"So if it starts there, you"},{"startTime":737.658,"endTime":740.628,"body":"project out another year and a"},{"startTime":740.628,"endTime":743.538,"body":"half to two years after that,"},{"startTime":740.628,"endTime":743.538,"body":"it could become a reality."},{"startTime":743.748,"endTime":746.608,"body":"And also one thing I'll"},{"startTime":743.748,"endTime":746.608,"body":"probably mention that the"},{"startTime":746.608,"endTime":749.368,"body":"role of software development"},{"startTime":746.608,"endTime":749.368,"body":"the software developers and"},{"startTime":749.368,"endTime":750.718,"body":"product managers will emerge."},{"startTime":750.788,"endTime":754.718,"body":"having good code and"},{"startTime":750.788,"endTime":754.718,"body":"writing good requirements."},{"startTime":755.018,"endTime":758.408,"body":"Is gonna be like skills"},{"startTime":755.018,"endTime":758.408,"body":"that will be in one person."},{"startTime":758.708,"endTime":760.448,"body":"So we'll have product"},{"startTime":758.708,"endTime":760.448,"body":"engineers, right?"},{"startTime":760.748,"endTime":762.428,"body":"There are already skills"},{"startTime":760.748,"endTime":762.428,"body":"that are in one person."},{"startTime":762.788,"endTime":762.908,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":762.908,"endTime":766.868,"body":"It just imagine how much value"},{"startTime":762.908,"endTime":766.868,"body":"can bring to the business,"},{"startTime":766.928,"endTime":767.858,"body":"to the, to the companies."},{"startTime":767.888,"endTime":771.038,"body":"If you can combine product"},{"startTime":767.888,"endTime":771.038,"body":"managers and software developers"},{"startTime":771.338,"endTime":775.058,"body":"and software developers who"},{"startTime":771.338,"endTime":775.058,"body":"can actually own the problem,"},{"startTime":775.058,"endTime":777.819,"body":"not do what product managers"},{"startTime":775.058,"endTime":777.819,"body":"told them to do, right."},{"startTime":778.119,"endTime":781.209,"body":"And deliver it all the"},{"startTime":778.119,"endTime":781.209,"body":"way . so let's tackle"},{"startTime":781.209,"endTime":782.169,"body":"that one in two parts."},{"startTime":782.289,"endTime":784.899,"body":"We already have those people"},{"startTime":782.289,"endTime":784.899,"body":"today in software development"},{"startTime":784.899,"endTime":787.369,"body":"and they're called the hero"},{"startTime":784.899,"endTime":787.369,"body":"developers . And at some"},{"startTime":787.369,"endTime":788.359,"body":"shops, they save the day."},{"startTime":788.359,"endTime":790.809,"body":"And then that person that"},{"startTime":788.359,"endTime":790.809,"body":"treats people really badly and"},{"startTime":790.809,"endTime":791.919,"body":"gets away with a lot of dirt."},{"startTime":792.279,"endTime":794.149,"body":"And can't seem to get fired."},{"startTime":794.449,"endTime":797.369,"body":"You know, in some shops they're"},{"startTime":794.449,"endTime":797.369,"body":"the person that stays up till"},{"startTime":797.369,"endTime":799.709,"body":"all hours trying to get things"},{"startTime":797.369,"endTime":799.709,"body":"done across the finish line"},{"startTime":800.139,"endTime":803.049,"body":"making their team look bad,"},{"startTime":800.139,"endTime":803.049,"body":"but they look good, you know?"},{"startTime":803.099,"endTime":806.059,"body":"The better shops, the"},{"startTime":803.099,"endTime":806.059,"body":"team coalesces and deals"},{"startTime":806.059,"endTime":808.559,"body":"with it together and you"},{"startTime":806.059,"endTime":808.559,"body":"don't have individuals"},{"startTime":808.559,"endTime":809.339,"body":"kind of sticking out."},{"startTime":809.639,"endTime":812.939,"body":"What does that dynamic look"},{"startTime":809.639,"endTime":812.939,"body":"like , with Vibe coding?"},{"startTime":813.039,"endTime":816.444,"body":"I think those hero developers"},{"startTime":813.039,"endTime":816.444,"body":"would be leading the charge"},{"startTime":816.444,"endTime":819.464,"body":"with vibe coding because they"},{"startTime":816.444,"endTime":819.464,"body":"can be a hero a lot quicker."},{"startTime":819.704,"endTime":823.874,"body":"They can demonstrate to"},{"startTime":819.704,"endTime":823.874,"body":"their fellows, developers,"},{"startTime":823.874,"endTime":826.624,"body":"or even leadership, that"},{"startTime":823.874,"endTime":826.624,"body":"they can quickly come"},{"startTime":826.624,"endTime":828.694,"body":"up with code that works."},{"startTime":828.994,"endTime":831.004,"body":"So I think they're the ones"},{"startTime":828.994,"endTime":831.004,"body":"that are gonna be leading."},{"startTime":831.424,"endTime":834.914,"body":"In this, in this space, they'll"},{"startTime":831.424,"endTime":834.914,"body":"figure out how to vibe code."},{"startTime":835.064,"endTime":838.004,"body":"They'll figure out how to lead"},{"startTime":835.064,"endTime":838.004,"body":"with that and say, I did this."},{"startTime":838.304,"endTime":838.634,"body":"Right."},{"startTime":838.634,"endTime":839.294,"body":"Should they do?"},{"startTime":839.474,"endTime":839.564,"body":"Mm-hmm."},{"startTime":839.834,"endTime":842.314,"body":"So about me, me, me with"},{"startTime":839.834,"endTime":842.314,"body":"the heroes to the point"},{"startTime":842.314,"endTime":845.414,"body":"where they can make"},{"startTime":842.314,"endTime":845.414,"body":"themselves indispensable"},{"startTime":845.594,"endTime":846.584,"body":"for the organization."},{"startTime":846.884,"endTime":847.844,"body":"Well, what's different though?"},{"startTime":847.844,"endTime":851.064,"body":"We already had these type of"},{"startTime":847.844,"endTime":851.064,"body":"developers  before AI even,"},{"startTime":851.334,"endTime":853.674,"body":"who was like, if something was"},{"startTime":851.334,"endTime":853.674,"body":"broken, they're like, okay,"},{"startTime":853.674,"endTime":855.204,"body":"Mike knows what's broken."},{"startTime":855.204,"endTime":856.554,"body":"He's been here long"},{"startTime":855.204,"endTime":856.554,"body":"enough to understand."},{"startTime":856.554,"endTime":858.264,"body":"So what's different with ai?"},{"startTime":858.264,"endTime":860.124,"body":"Speed is, is the thing"},{"startTime":858.264,"endTime":860.124,"body":"that's different now, right?"},{"startTime":860.129,"endTime":862.619,"body":"So we're talking about speed"},{"startTime":860.129,"endTime":862.619,"body":"to market Now, they can quickly"},{"startTime":862.619,"endTime":864.659,"body":"come up with something, and"},{"startTime":862.619,"endTime":864.659,"body":"if that's not right, they can"},{"startTime":864.659,"endTime":866.789,"body":"quickly pivot using vibe coding."},{"startTime":866.914,"endTime":870.424,"body":"so it's this skillset that's"},{"startTime":866.914,"endTime":870.424,"body":"needed to vibe, code that"},{"startTime":870.424,"endTime":871.534,"body":"they can bring to the bear."},{"startTime":871.564,"endTime":873.784,"body":"'cause they're already good"},{"startTime":871.564,"endTime":873.784,"body":"developers, presumably, or at"},{"startTime":873.784,"endTime":876.514,"body":"least technically proficient,"},{"startTime":873.784,"endTime":876.514,"body":"let me put it that way."},{"startTime":876.794,"endTime":879.094,"body":"So they're able to bridge"},{"startTime":876.794,"endTime":879.094,"body":"this divide pretty quickly,"},{"startTime":879.094,"endTime":882.274,"body":"I feel, compared to the other"},{"startTime":879.094,"endTime":882.274,"body":"developers that they work with."},{"startTime":882.574,"endTime":886.064,"body":"Well in my, observation the"},{"startTime":882.574,"endTime":886.064,"body":"ones who are resisting AI cogen"},{"startTime":886.064,"endTime":887.474,"body":"tools are developers, right?"},{"startTime":887.924,"endTime":891.364,"body":"And it's gonna be hard to"},{"startTime":887.924,"endTime":891.364,"body":"force this rockstar developers."},{"startTime":891.819,"endTime":894.039,"body":"To do vibe coding also like,"},{"startTime":891.819,"endTime":894.039,"body":"and to understand product"},{"startTime":894.039,"endTime":897.579,"body":"requirements and go from there"},{"startTime":894.039,"endTime":897.579,"body":"because they so used to do"},{"startTime":897.579,"endTime":900.909,"body":"certain amount of work and"},{"startTime":897.579,"endTime":900.909,"body":"they are so, so used to have a"},{"startTime":900.909,"endTime":903.439,"body":"niche set of responsibilities"},{"startTime":900.909,"endTime":903.439,"body":"at, at the company."},{"startTime":903.769,"endTime":904.789,"body":"And they'll be resisting."},{"startTime":904.819,"endTime":908.929,"body":"Also, these people are, I know"},{"startTime":904.819,"endTime":908.929,"body":"now they call hero developers,"},{"startTime":909.139,"endTime":911.179,"body":"but before they used to call"},{"startTime":909.139,"endTime":911.179,"body":"like 10 X engineers, right?"},{"startTime":911.479,"endTime":912.319,"body":"10 X developers."},{"startTime":912.319,"endTime":912.499,"body":"Right."},{"startTime":912.919,"endTime":916.079,"body":"But one thing is 10, sorry,"},{"startTime":912.919,"endTime":916.079,"body":"10 x to me means they'll"},{"startTime":916.079,"endTime":918.899,"body":"take 10 x more the abuse"},{"startTime":916.079,"endTime":918.899,"body":"than like, I, sorry, I,"},{"startTime":918.899,"endTime":920.159,"body":"not exactly, I understand."},{"startTime":920.309,"endTime":923.219,"body":"There, there are people that"},{"startTime":920.309,"endTime":923.219,"body":"are like, it's, it's not a, like"},{"startTime":923.219,"endTime":927.129,"body":"software development, software"},{"startTime":923.219,"endTime":927.129,"body":"engineering , the scaling is"},{"startTime":927.129,"endTime":929.319,"body":"not linear based on experience."},{"startTime":929.769,"endTime":932.184,"body":"So you can have one"},{"startTime":929.769,"endTime":932.184,"body":"person , with five years of"},{"startTime":932.184,"endTime":936.444,"body":"experience that is 10 times"},{"startTime":932.184,"endTime":936.444,"body":"faster than another person"},{"startTime":936.444,"endTime":939.054,"body":"sitting next to him with an"},{"startTime":936.444,"endTime":939.054,"body":"equal amount of experience."},{"startTime":939.054,"endTime":941.514,"body":"And it's just like I would"},{"startTime":939.054,"endTime":941.514,"body":"expect someone with 10"},{"startTime":941.514,"endTime":944.514,"body":"years experience to be this"},{"startTime":941.514,"endTime":944.514,"body":"much faster than whatever."},{"startTime":944.564,"endTime":946.424,"body":", It just doesn't work"},{"startTime":944.564,"endTime":946.424,"body":"that way, you know?"},{"startTime":946.904,"endTime":948.494,"body":"And there's a reason for"},{"startTime":946.904,"endTime":948.494,"body":"that, which probably should"},{"startTime":948.494,"endTime":949.544,"body":"be a whole different podcast."},{"startTime":949.544,"endTime":951.484,"body":"But maybe vibe coding"},{"startTime":949.544,"endTime":951.484,"body":"is not completely fair."},{"startTime":951.484,"endTime":954.054,"body":"'cause we're kind of producing"},{"startTime":951.484,"endTime":954.054,"body":"code that it work is working,"},{"startTime":954.324,"endTime":956.874,"body":"but you don't really understand"},{"startTime":954.324,"endTime":956.874,"body":"the code that's written that's"},{"startTime":956.874,"endTime":959.304,"body":"like the spirit of vibe coding"},{"startTime":956.874,"endTime":959.304,"body":"is, I don't know how to, I don't"},{"startTime":959.304,"endTime":963.404,"body":"Well look also 10 X engineer"},{"startTime":959.304,"endTime":963.404,"body":"AKA hero developer, right."},{"startTime":963.474,"endTime":965.274,"body":"These are not people"},{"startTime":963.474,"endTime":965.274,"body":"who are generating 10"},{"startTime":965.274,"endTime":966.804,"body":"x more code than usual."},{"startTime":966.804,"endTime":966.864,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":966.894,"endTime":967.224,"body":"Right."},{"startTime":967.674,"endTime":970.199,"body":"With ai, these are people"},{"startTime":967.674,"endTime":970.199,"body":"who are bringing 10 x more"},{"startTime":970.199,"endTime":972.139,"body":"value than developers."},{"startTime":972.379,"endTime":976.129,"body":"It's not about the"},{"startTime":972.379,"endTime":976.129,"body":"quality of the code."},{"startTime":976.429,"endTime":977.809,"body":"Code could be perfect, right?"},{"startTime":978.049,"endTime":979.069,"body":"It was, it'll be amazing."},{"startTime":979.489,"endTime":982.309,"body":"But do they deliver value or not"},{"startTime":979.489,"endTime":982.309,"body":"to the company, to organization."},{"startTime":982.309,"endTime":982.459,"body":"Right."},{"startTime":982.789,"endTime":987.759,"body":"So it's obviously what is"},{"startTime":982.789,"endTime":987.759,"body":"Hero developer AKA 10 engineer"},{"startTime":988.089,"endTime":989.139,"body":"in, in a nutshell, right?"},{"startTime":989.499,"endTime":993.399,"body":"Is this someone who went through"},{"startTime":989.499,"endTime":993.399,"body":"Stanford Bachelor, master's,"},{"startTime":993.489,"endTime":997.929,"body":"have PhD in computer science,"},{"startTime":993.489,"endTime":997.929,"body":"worked at Google 10 years and"},{"startTime":998.079,"endTime":999.609,"body":"working at x, Y, Z company."},{"startTime":999.659,"endTime":1001.939,"body":"Or is this Mike from"},{"startTime":999.659,"endTime":1001.939,"body":"community college in"},{"startTime":1001.939,"endTime":1004.579,"body":"Oklahoma who's been with the"},{"startTime":1001.939,"endTime":1004.579,"body":"company for 20 years Yeah."},{"startTime":1004.639,"endTime":1005.809,"body":"Who is delivering more value?"},{"startTime":1005.899,"endTime":1006.049,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":1006.109,"endTime":1008.329,"body":"At this today, it's, it's Mike."},{"startTime":1008.329,"endTime":1008.599,"body":"Right."},{"startTime":1008.899,"endTime":1012.439,"body":"Even though like the guy from"},{"startTime":1008.899,"endTime":1012.439,"body":"Stanford could be way skilled,"},{"startTime":1012.439,"endTime":1015.909,"body":"way experienced, but the guy"},{"startTime":1012.439,"endTime":1015.909,"body":"who been at the company long"},{"startTime":1015.909,"endTime":1019.384,"body":"enough who understands the code,"},{"startTime":1015.909,"endTime":1019.384,"body":"who understands that if you"},{"startTime":1019.384,"endTime":1020.949,"body":"change this, this will break."},{"startTime":1021.004,"endTime":1022.984,"body":"If you change that"},{"startTime":1021.004,"endTime":1022.984,"body":"one, this will break."},{"startTime":1023.044,"endTime":1024.994,"body":"I think that one is"},{"startTime":1023.044,"endTime":1024.994,"body":"providing more value."},{"startTime":1024.994,"endTime":1027.844,"body":"So understanding the code,"},{"startTime":1024.994,"endTime":1027.844,"body":"understanding the business"},{"startTime":1027.844,"endTime":1031.779,"body":"as a whole, I think that's"},{"startTime":1027.844,"endTime":1031.779,"body":"the skill that will be highly"},{"startTime":1031.779,"endTime":1033.219,"body":"appreciated in the future."},{"startTime":1033.254,"endTime":1036.464,"body":"And even now, if you know what"},{"startTime":1033.254,"endTime":1036.464,"body":"you are doing and why you're"},{"startTime":1036.464,"endTime":1039.914,"body":"doing it, for what purpose,"},{"startTime":1036.464,"endTime":1039.914,"body":"you will succeed as a developer"},{"startTime":1039.914,"endTime":1041.084,"body":"tester, DevOps engineer."},{"startTime":1041.084,"endTime":1041.834,"body":"Product manager."},{"startTime":1041.894,"endTime":1043.864,"body":"Project manager UX"},{"startTime":1041.894,"endTime":1043.864,"body":"designer, whatever."},{"startTime":1044.284,"endTime":1048.034,"body":"But if you are just there to"},{"startTime":1044.284,"endTime":1048.034,"body":"do what you've been told to do,"},{"startTime":1048.084,"endTime":1051.184,"body":"then you're gonna be probably"},{"startTime":1048.084,"endTime":1051.184,"body":"falling behind, although I hate"},{"startTime":1051.184,"endTime":1053.614,"body":"this word, but you'll have less"},{"startTime":1051.184,"endTime":1053.614,"body":"opportunities in the future."},{"startTime":1053.734,"endTime":1055.504,"body":"It doesn't mean that you will"},{"startTime":1053.734,"endTime":1055.504,"body":"not have opportunities, but"},{"startTime":1055.504,"endTime":1056.434,"body":"you'll have less opportunities."},{"startTime":1056.484,"endTime":1058.634,"body":"the thing that scares me about"},{"startTime":1056.484,"endTime":1058.634,"body":"the way that technology is"},{"startTime":1058.634,"endTime":1062.534,"body":"being pitched is like everybody"},{"startTime":1058.634,"endTime":1062.534,"body":"is an individual developer now"},{"startTime":1062.534,"endTime":1065.374,"body":"and can, come up with their"},{"startTime":1062.534,"endTime":1065.374,"body":"own solutions, their own unique"},{"startTime":1065.374,"endTime":1067.234,"body":"view of solutions, whereas."},{"startTime":1067.534,"endTime":1070.484,"body":"A lot of stuff that we talk"},{"startTime":1067.534,"endTime":1070.484,"body":"about on the podcast is making"},{"startTime":1070.484,"endTime":1074.804,"body":"software development a team"},{"startTime":1070.484,"endTime":1074.804,"body":"sport rather than a I'll, you"},{"startTime":1074.804,"endTime":1075.644,"body":"just tell me what you need."},{"startTime":1075.644,"endTime":1078.644,"body":"I'll go off in the corner and"},{"startTime":1075.644,"endTime":1078.644,"body":"code for whatever, a couple"},{"startTime":1078.644,"endTime":1081.754,"body":"weeks and then , don't disturb"},{"startTime":1078.644,"endTime":1081.754,"body":"me and put my headphones on."},{"startTime":1081.784,"endTime":1082.024,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":1082.074,"endTime":1085.694,"body":"That stereotype of that type of"},{"startTime":1082.074,"endTime":1085.694,"body":"developer it's already, it's,"},{"startTime":1085.694,"endTime":1090.584,"body":"it arguably, I don't know if it"},{"startTime":1085.694,"endTime":1090.584,"body":"was ever in vogue past 2005 or"},{"startTime":1090.584,"endTime":1091.694,"body":"whatever, you know what I mean?"},{"startTime":1091.884,"endTime":1092.994,"body":"I'm gonna remind you one thing."},{"startTime":1092.994,"endTime":1095.664,"body":"So one year ago when we were"},{"startTime":1092.994,"endTime":1095.664,"body":"having this podcast, I was"},{"startTime":1095.664,"endTime":1099.444,"body":"telling you guys generalist"},{"startTime":1095.664,"endTime":1099.444,"body":"people will be in demand."},{"startTime":1099.444,"endTime":1101.514,"body":"And you were like, oh, I"},{"startTime":1099.444,"endTime":1101.514,"body":"thought experts are in demand."},{"startTime":1101.814,"endTime":1102.894,"body":"They absolutely were."},{"startTime":1103.044,"endTime":1105.494,"body":"There was tons of people"},{"startTime":1103.044,"endTime":1105.494,"body":"pedaling you gotta be an"},{"startTime":1105.494,"endTime":1108.494,"body":"AI product manager or a"},{"startTime":1105.494,"endTime":1108.494,"body":"FinTech product manager,"},{"startTime":1108.504,"endTime":1109.434,"body":"and now it's reality."},{"startTime":1109.534,"endTime":1112.904,"body":"As and, and again like, I, with"},{"startTime":1109.534,"endTime":1112.904,"body":"stuff like that, I always wonder"},{"startTime":1112.904,"endTime":1117.014,"body":"like, is it, is it because"},{"startTime":1112.904,"endTime":1117.014,"body":"I have the experience and I"},{"startTime":1117.014,"endTime":1120.974,"body":"understand like it's better to"},{"startTime":1117.014,"endTime":1120.974,"body":"have the software development,"},{"startTime":1121.274,"endTime":1124.634,"body":"product management experience"},{"startTime":1121.274,"endTime":1124.634,"body":"together, and then with those"},{"startTime":1124.634,"endTime":1128.414,"body":"two things, you can jump from"},{"startTime":1124.634,"endTime":1128.414,"body":"domain to domain successfully."},{"startTime":1128.444,"endTime":1128.534,"body":"Mm-hmm."},{"startTime":1128.834,"endTime":1131.384,"body":"You have the skills for"},{"startTime":1128.834,"endTime":1131.384,"body":"success no matter what."},{"startTime":1131.384,"endTime":1133.814,"body":"It's like a, it's like a, when"},{"startTime":1131.384,"endTime":1133.814,"body":"your kids go through school, you"},{"startTime":1133.814,"endTime":1137.204,"body":"want them to have enough general"},{"startTime":1133.814,"endTime":1137.204,"body":"experience where whatever"},{"startTime":1137.264,"endTime":1140.234,"body":"situation they face in the"},{"startTime":1137.264,"endTime":1140.234,"body":"future, they have the skills for"},{"startTime":1140.234,"endTime":1143.434,"body":"success, , but occasionally the"},{"startTime":1140.234,"endTime":1143.434,"body":"market just moves through these"},{"startTime":1143.434,"endTime":1146.279,"body":"waves up and down where they're"},{"startTime":1143.434,"endTime":1146.279,"body":"like, no, no, no, no, no."},{"startTime":1146.284,"endTime":1150.184,"body":"I want someone who has 20 years"},{"startTime":1146.284,"endTime":1150.184,"body":"of LLM experience or something"},{"startTime":1150.194,"endTime":1154.814,"body":"some ridiculous 15 years with"},{"startTime":1150.194,"endTime":1154.814,"body":"ChatGPT experience , imagine"},{"startTime":1154.844,"endTime":1157.724,"body":"20 years passed by and everyone"},{"startTime":1154.844,"endTime":1157.724,"body":"is generalist now, right."},{"startTime":1158.069,"endTime":1160.409,"body":"Everyone can jump from one"},{"startTime":1158.069,"endTime":1160.409,"body":"domain to another domain"},{"startTime":1160.559,"endTime":1162.209,"body":"and then one company"},{"startTime":1160.559,"endTime":1162.209,"body":"comes back like, does"},{"startTime":1162.209,"endTime":1163.439,"body":"anyone know Java eight?"},{"startTime":1163.739,"endTime":1165.479,"body":"They're, first of all, they're"},{"startTime":1163.739,"endTime":1165.479,"body":"absolutely will people."},{"startTime":1165.534,"endTime":1165.744,"body":"Wait, wait."},{"startTime":1165.749,"endTime":1166.179,"body":"Lemme let."},{"startTime":1166.179,"endTime":1166.539,"body":"Think about it."},{"startTime":1166.559,"endTime":1167.579,"body":"What's have we done?"},{"startTime":1167.879,"endTime":1170.584,"body":"Lemme think, think about,"},{"startTime":1167.879,"endTime":1170.584,"body":"lemme think about, no, they're"},{"startTime":1170.584,"endTime":1173.434,"body":"absolutely, like 15 years from"},{"startTime":1170.584,"endTime":1173.434,"body":"now, there absolutely will"},{"startTime":1173.434,"endTime":1177.154,"body":"be, be people out there going,"},{"startTime":1173.434,"endTime":1177.154,"body":"does anyone know PHP five X?"},{"startTime":1177.154,"endTime":1179.734,"body":"Like, I, I have a, well, listen,"},{"startTime":1177.154,"endTime":1179.734,"body":"today we have people saying,"},{"startTime":1179.734,"endTime":1182.594,"body":"does anybody know anyone who"},{"startTime":1179.734,"endTime":1182.594,"body":"can still program in COBOL?"},{"startTime":1182.614,"endTime":1183.394,"body":"Yes, exactly."},{"startTime":1183.394,"endTime":1184.414,"body":"There's a lot of"},{"startTime":1183.394,"endTime":1184.414,"body":"COBOL stuff out there."},{"startTime":1184.414,"endTime":1184.594,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":1184.624,"endTime":1185.314,"body":"So I agree."},{"startTime":1185.494,"endTime":1188.614,"body":"There will be that, but it, it"},{"startTime":1185.494,"endTime":1188.614,"body":"may not be mainstream, right?"},{"startTime":1188.614,"endTime":1190.144,"body":"It'll be niche,"},{"startTime":1188.614,"endTime":1190.144,"body":"but it'll be there."},{"startTime":1190.294,"endTime":1191.284,"body":"But that means"},{"startTime":1190.294,"endTime":1191.284,"body":"good thing, right?"},{"startTime":1191.284,"endTime":1192.604,"body":"People have corporate loyalty."},{"startTime":1192.604,"endTime":1194.494,"body":"People are gonna stay in"},{"startTime":1192.604,"endTime":1194.494,"body":"the same job because they're"},{"startTime":1194.494,"endTime":1196.174,"body":"gonna have less opportunities."},{"startTime":1196.474,"endTime":1199.479,"body":"I dunno if there's like, you"},{"startTime":1196.474,"endTime":1199.479,"body":"just, you hit like, I, you"},{"startTime":1199.719,"endTime":1200.889,"body":"hit a lot of topics, right?"},{"startTime":1200.889,"endTime":1200.949,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":1200.949,"endTime":1202.509,"body":"You hit, you hit a lot"},{"startTime":1200.949,"endTime":1202.509,"body":"of topics right there."},{"startTime":1202.554,"endTime":1204.759,"body":"I, I don't know if there is"},{"startTime":1202.554,"endTime":1204.759,"body":"such thing as corporate loyalty,"},{"startTime":1204.759,"endTime":1207.429,"body":"but I look forward to having"},{"startTime":1204.759,"endTime":1207.429,"body":"another podcast on that topic."},{"startTime":1207.429,"endTime":1207.519,"body":"Mm-hmm."},{"startTime":1207.759,"endTime":1208.329,"body":"In the future!"},{"startTime":1208.909,"endTime":1211.459,"body":"We're bending over backwards"},{"startTime":1208.909,"endTime":1211.459,"body":"on the podcast to try to"},{"startTime":1211.459,"endTime":1214.609,"body":"encourage the team sport"},{"startTime":1211.459,"endTime":1214.609,"body":"of software development."},{"startTime":1214.759,"endTime":1216.589,"body":"The vibe coding is like, well,"},{"startTime":1214.759,"endTime":1216.589,"body":"you don't need a team now,"},{"startTime":1216.709,"endTime":1220.039,"body":"just ask the LLM and it'll"},{"startTime":1216.709,"endTime":1220.039,"body":"spit out some code and just"},{"startTime":1220.039,"endTime":1221.969,"body":"throw that into production"},{"startTime":1220.039,"endTime":1221.969,"body":"thank goodness that the"},{"startTime":1221.969,"endTime":1223.679,"body":"LLM cannot automatically."},{"startTime":1223.709,"endTime":1226.949,"body":"Write the code, , it does,"},{"startTime":1223.709,"endTime":1226.949,"body":"the PR has, you approve it and"},{"startTime":1226.949,"endTime":1230.249,"body":"rolls straight into production,"},{"startTime":1226.949,"endTime":1230.249,"body":"like in one solid go."},{"startTime":1230.319,"endTime":1232.209,"body":"Some people are gonna be"},{"startTime":1230.319,"endTime":1232.209,"body":"like, Brian tools can do that."},{"startTime":1232.509,"endTime":1233.289,"body":"They really can't."},{"startTime":1233.339,"endTime":1236.079,"body":"Not end-to-end like I'm"},{"startTime":1233.339,"endTime":1236.079,"body":"talking about and end-to-end"},{"startTime":1236.079,"endTime":1238.419,"body":"sandbox of like, puts it"},{"startTime":1236.079,"endTime":1238.419,"body":"in the environment, lets"},{"startTime":1238.419,"endTime":1240.969,"body":"you play with it and then"},{"startTime":1238.419,"endTime":1240.969,"body":"pushes it up to production."},{"startTime":1241.019,"endTime":1243.809,"body":"I think a year from now"},{"startTime":1241.019,"endTime":1243.809,"body":"that probably will exist"},{"startTime":1243.809,"endTime":1244.679,"body":"and people will use it."},{"startTime":1244.919,"endTime":1246.691,"body":"And that is a tool we"},{"startTime":1244.919,"endTime":1246.691,"body":"need, you know what I mean?"},{"startTime":1246.696,"endTime":1248.639,"body":"I don't doubt that it will"},{"startTime":1246.696,"endTime":1248.639,"body":"be there in a year from now."},{"startTime":1248.669,"endTime":1248.819,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":1248.819,"endTime":1249.929,"body":"But I mean, we're"},{"startTime":1248.819,"endTime":1249.929,"body":"not that far away."},{"startTime":1249.959,"endTime":1254.159,"body":"But at that point are we moving,"},{"startTime":1249.959,"endTime":1254.159,"body":"are we, are we moving retrograde"},{"startTime":1254.249,"endTime":1257.459,"body":"in like it's not a team sport"},{"startTime":1254.249,"endTime":1257.459,"body":"anymore, or like, what are, what"},{"startTime":1257.459,"endTime":1258.659,"body":"are we doing with our lives?"},{"startTime":1258.659,"endTime":1259.079,"body":"That's what I'm saying."},{"startTime":1259.079,"endTime":1259.65,"body":"Well, so it's one of"},{"startTime":1259.079,"endTime":1259.65,"body":"two things, right?"},{"startTime":1259.664,"endTime":1262.369,"body":"We we're trying to put out"},{"startTime":1259.664,"endTime":1262.369,"body":"a you know, a matchstick"},{"startTime":1262.369,"endTime":1263.719,"body":"with a fire hose possibly."},{"startTime":1263.719,"endTime":1263.809,"body":"Mm-hmm."},{"startTime":1264.049,"endTime":1266.449,"body":"So you can have multiple"},{"startTime":1264.049,"endTime":1266.449,"body":"developers all doing"},{"startTime":1266.449,"endTime":1267.049,"body":"their own thing."},{"startTime":1267.079,"endTime":1267.169,"body":"Mm-hmm."},{"startTime":1267.469,"endTime":1267.799,"body":"Right."},{"startTime":1267.859,"endTime":1270.589,"body":"All vibe coding, trying to"},{"startTime":1267.859,"endTime":1270.589,"body":"solve different problems,"},{"startTime":1270.589,"endTime":1271.909,"body":"hopefully, but sometimes not."},{"startTime":1272.029,"endTime":1272.209,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":1272.489,"endTime":1274.019,"body":"So that's one chaos scenario."},{"startTime":1274.419,"endTime":1277.569,"body":"The other side of the, the coin"},{"startTime":1274.419,"endTime":1277.569,"body":"is kind of 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you"},{"startTime":1366.399,"endTime":1369.459,"body":"Theoretically all the power of"},{"startTime":1366.399,"endTime":1369.459,"body":"Salesforce is there for you to"},{"startTime":1369.459,"endTime":1373.719,"body":"actually use in a easy to use"},{"startTime":1369.459,"endTime":1373.719,"body":"way in your business processes."},{"startTime":1373.789,"endTime":1375.409,"body":"Not the way that the"},{"startTime":1373.789,"endTime":1375.409,"body":"Salesforce people."},{"startTime":1375.784,"endTime":1378.244,"body":"Like intended and"},{"startTime":1375.784,"endTime":1378.244,"body":"put you in a box."},{"startTime":1378.424,"endTime":1378.514,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":1378.694,"endTime":1381.574,"body":"Like all their APIs are open"},{"startTime":1378.694,"endTime":1381.574,"body":"and now you can like vibe"},{"startTime":1381.574,"endTime":1384.214,"body":"code your way to like, oh,"},{"startTime":1381.574,"endTime":1384.214,"body":"I built a new 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selling widgets on"},{"startTime":1455.654,"endTime":1457.894,"body":"the internet . I want know"},{"startTime":1457.924,"endTime":1460.174,"body":"what countries are talking"},{"startTime":1457.924,"endTime":1460.174,"body":"about our widgets and I"},{"startTime":1460.174,"endTime":1462.664,"body":"wanna, 'cause I wanna buy"},{"startTime":1460.174,"endTime":1462.664,"body":"campaign ads and they're"},{"startTime":1462.664,"endTime":1464.044,"body":"expensive or whatever, right?"},{"startTime":1464.524,"endTime":1465.844,"body":"So go give me some data."},{"startTime":1465.844,"endTime":1466.804,"body":"Well, I don't know"},{"startTime":1465.844,"endTime":1466.804,"body":"how to do that."},{"startTime":1466.834,"endTime":1468.034,"body":"Okay, cool."},{"startTime":1468.454,"endTime":1470.614,"body":"But you've got these tools,"},{"startTime":1468.454,"endTime":1470.614,"body":"you've got these, whatever,"},{"startTime":1470.614,"endTime":1471.904,"body":"the future AI tools right?"},{"startTime":1471.954,"endTime":1475.194,"body":"Schedule some time with"},{"startTime":1471.954,"endTime":1475.194,"body":"our software engineer."},{"startTime":1475.674,"endTime":1478.764,"body":"And rather than like software"},{"startTime":1475.674,"endTime":1478.764,"body":"engineer being a divided"},{"startTime":1478.764,"endTime":1481.854,"body":"function that's over here,"},{"startTime":1478.764,"endTime":1481.854,"body":"this expert software engineer"},{"startTime":1481.854,"endTime":1484.974,"body":"will come sit with you and"},{"startTime":1481.854,"endTime":1484.974,"body":"help you as you do your vibe"},{"startTime":1484.974,"endTime":1487.739,"body":"code, kind of help you get on"},{"startTime":1484.974,"endTime":1487.739,"body":"track understanding how to push"},{"startTime":1487.739,"endTime":1489.659,"body":"your PRS through or whatever,"},{"startTime":1487.739,"endTime":1489.659,"body":"whatever you need to do."},{"startTime":1489.659,"endTime":1489.929,"body":"Right?"},{"startTime":1489.929,"endTime":1490.139,"body":"Right."},{"startTime":1490.339,"endTime":1492.529,"body":"And that just becomes another"},{"startTime":1490.339,"endTime":1492.529,"body":"like business function."},{"startTime":1492.739,"endTime":1495.829,"body":"Just like if you had to like"},{"startTime":1492.739,"endTime":1495.829,"body":"manage a budget, you'd get"},{"startTime":1495.829,"endTime":1497.809,"body":"the finance person, they'd"},{"startTime":1495.829,"endTime":1497.809,"body":"come over, they'd be like,"},{"startTime":1497.839,"endTime":1499.009,"body":"what are you doing kid?"},{"startTime":1499.009,"endTime":1500.689,"body":"Like, what the,"},{"startTime":1499.009,"endTime":1500.689,"body":"the pluses go here."},{"startTime":1500.689,"endTime":1502.399,"body":"The minuses go here and"},{"startTime":1500.689,"endTime":1502.399,"body":"the number come out,"},{"startTime":1502.549,"endTime":1503.359,"body":"comes out the bottom."},{"startTime":1503.689,"endTime":1505.069,"body":"I think that's a cool world."},{"startTime":1505.099,"endTime":1505.574,"body":"I think that's cool."},{"startTime":1505.604,"endTime":1506.329,"body":"It's a cool world."},{"startTime":1506.439,"endTime":1508.779,"body":"I also think that it"},{"startTime":1506.439,"endTime":1508.779,"body":"depends on the organization."},{"startTime":1508.779,"endTime":1511.779,"body":"So you're gonna see this, I"},{"startTime":1508.779,"endTime":1511.779,"body":"think, in certain organizations"},{"startTime":1511.779,"endTime":1512.794,"body":"that are open mm-hmm."},{"startTime":1513.294,"endTime":1515.154,"body":"To this kind of hybridized"},{"startTime":1513.294,"endTime":1515.154,"body":"approach, right?"},{"startTime":1515.154,"endTime":1515.474,"body":"Mm-hmm."},{"startTime":1515.829,"endTime":1518.439,"body":"But others where they're"},{"startTime":1515.829,"endTime":1518.439,"body":"more died in the world."},{"startTime":1518.694,"endTime":1523.004,"body":"With like silo and this is what"},{"startTime":1518.694,"endTime":1523.004,"body":"this function is, and you don't"},{"startTime":1523.004,"endTime":1524.264,"body":"bleed into another function."},{"startTime":1524.264,"endTime":1526.034,"body":"Those ones will suffer that."},{"startTime":1526.034,"endTime":1526.754,"body":"That's what I think."},{"startTime":1526.874,"endTime":1527.744,"body":"Sure, right."},{"startTime":1528.014,"endTime":1529.964,"body":"Good people will leave"},{"startTime":1528.014,"endTime":1529.964,"body":"those organizations"},{"startTime":1529.964,"endTime":1530.954,"body":"and move to the others."},{"startTime":1531.014,"endTime":1532.634,"body":"I think what we're"},{"startTime":1531.014,"endTime":1532.634,"body":"talking about, and you"},{"startTime":1532.634,"endTime":1534.674,"body":"guys mentioning that as"},{"startTime":1532.634,"endTime":1534.674,"body":"vibe, coding as a future,"},{"startTime":1534.674,"endTime":1535.754,"body":"actually it's not future."},{"startTime":1535.934,"endTime":1538.119,"body":"Future is no coders at all."},{"startTime":1538.419,"endTime":1539.109,"body":"That's the future."},{"startTime":1539.309,"endTime":1541.029,"body":"Vibe coding is a"},{"startTime":1539.309,"endTime":1541.029,"body":"reality right now."},{"startTime":1541.029,"endTime":1541.599,"body":"It's happening."},{"startTime":1541.809,"endTime":1545.109,"body":"It might be existing for a"},{"startTime":1541.809,"endTime":1545.109,"body":"couple more years, maybe longer."},{"startTime":1545.109,"endTime":1545.619,"body":"We don't know."},{"startTime":1545.619,"endTime":1546.699,"body":"We cannot predict future."},{"startTime":1547.089,"endTime":1550.229,"body":"But I think , the one thing"},{"startTime":1547.089,"endTime":1550.229,"body":"that's gonna be 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the"},{"startTime":1589.764,"endTime":1591.864,"body":"business, you'll have"},{"startTime":1591.864,"endTime":1593.034,"body":"to hire marketing guys."},{"startTime":1593.034,"endTime":1594.564,"body":"You'll have to hire designers."},{"startTime":1594.864,"endTime":1595.974,"body":"Sales, everything."},{"startTime":1595.974,"endTime":1598.734,"body":"You can automate it"},{"startTime":1595.974,"endTime":1598.734,"body":"with AI right now."},{"startTime":1598.794,"endTime":1598.944,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":1599.214,"endTime":1599.754,"body":"Partially."},{"startTime":1600.234,"endTime":1601.314,"body":"I'm running my business."},{"startTime":1601.494,"endTime":1602.904,"body":"We have three people"},{"startTime":1601.494,"endTime":1602.904,"body":"in operations."},{"startTime":1602.904,"endTime":1605.544,"body":"We have 35 people working"},{"startTime":1602.904,"endTime":1605.544,"body":"in the team, but internally"},{"startTime":1605.544,"endTime":1606.534,"body":"we have only three people."},{"startTime":1606.714,"endTime":1606.864,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":1607.224,"endTime":1608.694,"body":"And we're surviving"},{"startTime":1607.224,"endTime":1608.694,"body":"somehow, right?"},{"startTime":1608.694,"endTime":1608.754,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":1609.144,"endTime":1611.214,"body":"And a lot of things are"},{"startTime":1609.144,"endTime":1611.214,"body":"being replaced by ai."},{"startTime":1611.214,"endTime":1615.174,"body":"We create content, we create"},{"startTime":1611.214,"endTime":1615.174,"body":"the designs, we create code,"},{"startTime":1615.324,"endTime":1617.814,"body":"we create sketches, we create"},{"startTime":1615.324,"endTime":1617.814,"body":"product recommendation with ai."},{"startTime":1617.814,"endTime":1620.304,"body":"So it's saving a lot of"},{"startTime":1617.814,"endTime":1620.304,"body":"time and it's a good thing."},{"startTime":1620.334,"endTime":1620.664,"body":"Right."},{"startTime":1620.844,"endTime":1621.954,"body":"As for businesses."},{"startTime":1622.104,"endTime":1622.284,"body":"Mm-hmm."},{"startTime":1622.584,"endTime":1622.587,"body":"Just to confirm."},{"startTime":1622.592,"endTime":1626.522,"body":"for people not sure, but they"},{"startTime":1622.592,"endTime":1626.522,"body":"can turn it into good thing for"},{"startTime":1626.522,"endTime":1629.012,"body":"themself if they're gonna adopt"},{"startTime":1626.522,"endTime":1629.012,"body":"it and not gonna resist it."},{"startTime":1629.222,"endTime":1629.342,"body":"Right."},{"startTime":1629.462,"endTime":1631.338,"body":"If you're gonna keep resisting"},{"startTime":1629.462,"endTime":1631.338,"body":"it, that's your problem."},{"startTime":1631.348,"endTime":1634.198,"body":"You have to adopt it and"},{"startTime":1631.348,"endTime":1634.198,"body":"accept it as a reality."},{"startTime":1634.438,"endTime":1636.713,"body":"You cannot fight"},{"startTime":1634.438,"endTime":1636.713,"body":"the waves, you know?"},{"startTime":1636.713,"endTime":1637.073,"body":"Mm-hmm."},{"startTime":1637.218,"endTime":1639.318,"body":", You can win against the"},{"startTime":1637.218,"endTime":1639.318,"body":"waves probably one day,"},{"startTime":1639.678,"endTime":1640.458,"body":"but you'll be dead."},{"startTime":1640.463,"endTime":1641.233,"body":"Well, yeah."},{"startTime":1641.438,"endTime":1644.318,"body":"Well, you, you can win"},{"startTime":1641.438,"endTime":1644.318,"body":"like any, any like if the."},{"startTime":1644.518,"endTime":1648.868,"body":"If you're saying it's another"},{"startTime":1644.518,"endTime":1648.868,"body":"tool in your arsenal of"},{"startTime":1648.868,"endTime":1650.158,"body":"many, many tools Exactly."},{"startTime":1650.158,"endTime":1652.278,"body":"With which you run a"},{"startTime":1650.158,"endTime":1652.278,"body":"successful business I'm, I'm"},{"startTime":1652.278,"endTime":1653.478,"body":"there, I'm right behind you."},{"startTime":1653.688,"endTime":1654.768,"body":"I'll back you up"},{"startTime":1653.688,"endTime":1654.768,"body":"a hundred percent."},{"startTime":1655.098,"endTime":1656.178,"body":"I like the Silicon Valley."},{"startTime":1656.178,"endTime":1658.098,"body":"People are like, they, they're"},{"startTime":1656.178,"endTime":1658.098,"body":"gonna be very angry with"},{"startTime":1658.098,"endTime":1661.308,"body":"you this is not the way we"},{"startTime":1658.098,"endTime":1661.308,"body":"sell our chat requirements,"},{"startTime":1661.308,"endTime":1663.919,"body":"documents, whatever, like"},{"startTime":1661.308,"endTime":1663.919,"body":"products or whatever that Yeah."},{"startTime":1664.138,"endTime":1666.058,"body":"That automate things that"},{"startTime":1664.138,"endTime":1666.058,"body":"probably never should have"},{"startTime":1666.058,"endTime":1667.798,"body":"been done in the first place."},{"startTime":1668.138,"endTime":1670.058,"body":"But I wanna pivot us to"},{"startTime":1668.138,"endTime":1670.058,"body":"the product management side"},{"startTime":1670.058,"endTime":1670.838,"body":"of it, is what I'm saying."},{"startTime":1671.328,"endTime":1675.978,"body":"in a future state where everyone"},{"startTime":1671.328,"endTime":1675.978,"body":"has the tools of a software"},{"startTime":1675.978,"endTime":1680.058,"body":"engineer, everyone can create"},{"startTime":1675.978,"endTime":1680.058,"body":"like business class software,"},{"startTime":1680.118,"endTime":1683.388,"body":"like just out of thin air in"},{"startTime":1680.118,"endTime":1683.388,"body":"a day or two and commit it"},{"startTime":1683.388,"endTime":1685.518,"body":"to production, what happens"},{"startTime":1683.388,"endTime":1685.518,"body":"to the discipline of product"},{"startTime":1685.518,"endTime":1686.478,"body":"management in the future?"},{"startTime":1686.478,"endTime":1689.178,"body":"Because the theoretically,"},{"startTime":1686.478,"endTime":1689.178,"body":"like what we started with the"},{"startTime":1689.178,"endTime":1690.498,"body":"podcast is speed to market."},{"startTime":1690.888,"endTime":1694.998,"body":"If literally anybody in"},{"startTime":1690.888,"endTime":1694.998,"body":"the company can test an"},{"startTime":1694.998,"endTime":1699.448,"body":"MVP and I mean a, a real"},{"startTime":1694.998,"endTime":1699.448,"body":"MVP, which is can customers"},{"startTime":1699.448,"endTime":1700.588,"body":"figure out how to use this?"},{"startTime":1700.888,"endTime":1702.088,"body":"Can we sell this?"},{"startTime":1702.538,"endTime":1704.428,"body":"And is this something that"},{"startTime":1702.538,"endTime":1704.428,"body":"our company can maintain?"},{"startTime":1704.548,"endTime":1705.688,"body":"Like those questions, right?"},{"startTime":1705.688,"endTime":1708.928,"body":"The not like, I'm gonna build a"},{"startTime":1705.688,"endTime":1708.928,"body":"million different things, just"},{"startTime":1708.928,"endTime":1711.718,"body":"this tiny little thing, and"},{"startTime":1708.928,"endTime":1711.718,"body":"then ask those questions and"},{"startTime":1711.768,"endTime":1715.428,"body":"get real market signal, build a"},{"startTime":1711.768,"endTime":1715.428,"body":"case, bring it to the business."},{"startTime":1715.428,"endTime":1716.298,"body":"I build a thing."},{"startTime":1716.568,"endTime":1718.878,"body":"I think this should be a new"},{"startTime":1716.568,"endTime":1718.878,"body":"product line or a new service"},{"startTime":1718.878,"endTime":1720.108,"body":"or a new offering or whatever."},{"startTime":1720.408,"endTime":1723.288,"body":"When everyone in the business"},{"startTime":1720.408,"endTime":1723.288,"body":"can do that, first of all,"},{"startTime":1723.768,"endTime":1725.328,"body":"like you have a whole different"},{"startTime":1723.768,"endTime":1725.328,"body":"business on your head."},{"startTime":1725.328,"endTime":1727.623,"body":"Like you, you have a whole"},{"startTime":1725.328,"endTime":1727.623,"body":"different level of success if"},{"startTime":1727.623,"endTime":1730.233,"body":"all your employees are trying to"},{"startTime":1727.623,"endTime":1730.233,"body":"contribute to the bottom line."},{"startTime":1730.563,"endTime":1733.173,"body":"Like that's, I would think"},{"startTime":1730.563,"endTime":1733.173,"body":"that's what you want as"},{"startTime":1733.173,"endTime":1734.013,"body":"someone running a business."},{"startTime":1734.043,"endTime":1736.593,"body":"'cause that's as, as someone"},{"startTime":1734.043,"endTime":1736.593,"body":"just running a product who"},{"startTime":1736.593,"endTime":1737.853,"body":"is a segment of the business."},{"startTime":1738.003,"endTime":1738.753,"body":"That's what I want."},{"startTime":1739.083,"endTime":1743.513,"body":"I want everybody trying to like"},{"startTime":1739.083,"endTime":1743.513,"body":"achieve success that's not where"},{"startTime":1743.513,"endTime":1747.083,"body":"my ego gets challenged of like,"},{"startTime":1743.513,"endTime":1747.083,"body":"who came up with a cool new idea"},{"startTime":1747.473,"endTime":1748.943,"body":"that hit against the market."},{"startTime":1749.418,"endTime":1752.698,"body":"I think success is cool and"},{"startTime":1749.418,"endTime":1752.698,"body":"I'll double, triple down"},{"startTime":1752.698,"endTime":1755.548,"body":"on it with whoever's making"},{"startTime":1752.698,"endTime":1755.548,"body":"the innovation, like the"},{"startTime":1755.548,"endTime":1758.758,"body":"problem with this one, the"},{"startTime":1755.548,"endTime":1758.758,"body":"product management governance."},{"startTime":1759.058,"endTime":1760.468,"body":"Where am I Governance?"},{"startTime":1760.588,"endTime":1762.568,"body":"Governance is a four letter"},{"startTime":1760.588,"endTime":1762.568,"body":"word for me, by the way."},{"startTime":1763.018,"endTime":1763.948,"body":"This one scares me."},{"startTime":1764.248,"endTime":1765.298,"body":"You know, why does"},{"startTime":1764.248,"endTime":1765.298,"body":"it scare you though?"},{"startTime":1765.598,"endTime":1766.168,"body":"it scares me."},{"startTime":1766.168,"endTime":1770.328,"body":"'cause with ai, vibe"},{"startTime":1766.168,"endTime":1770.328,"body":"coding, speed to market."},{"startTime":1770.538,"endTime":1773.778,"body":"I don't think this is the"},{"startTime":1770.538,"endTime":1773.778,"body":"problem that, like the, the,"},{"startTime":1773.778,"endTime":1778.248,"body":"the problem that is being"},{"startTime":1773.778,"endTime":1778.248,"body":"pitched by the AI services"},{"startTime":1778.338,"endTime":1782.268,"body":"providers right now, which is"},{"startTime":1778.338,"endTime":1782.268,"body":"like more efficiency from your"},{"startTime":1782.268,"endTime":1785.688,"body":"workers, like efficiency from"},{"startTime":1782.268,"endTime":1785.688,"body":"the workers is not the problem."},{"startTime":1785.988,"endTime":1786.978,"body":"That's never been the problem."},{"startTime":1786.978,"endTime":1788.598,"body":"I mean, it hasn't been"},{"startTime":1786.978,"endTime":1788.598,"body":"a problem in years."},{"startTime":1788.898,"endTime":1791.353,"body":"The, the companies will spend"},{"startTime":1788.898,"endTime":1791.353,"body":"more money on workers if"},{"startTime":1791.353,"endTime":1793.783,"body":"the business is generating"},{"startTime":1791.353,"endTime":1793.783,"body":"actual revenue efficiency."},{"startTime":1793.783,"endTime":1796.073,"body":"The businesses will spend"},{"startTime":1793.783,"endTime":1796.073,"body":"more time on workers, on"},{"startTime":1796.073,"endTime":1798.803,"body":"high salaries, on hiring more"},{"startTime":1796.073,"endTime":1798.803,"body":"people, if businesses actually"},{"startTime":1798.803,"endTime":1799.703,"body":"generating more revenue."},{"startTime":1799.703,"endTime":1803.573,"body":"Efficiency is, in this case, is"},{"startTime":1799.703,"endTime":1803.573,"body":"optimizing some stuff, right?"},{"startTime":1803.753,"endTime":1805.793,"body":"It's not about acquiring"},{"startTime":1803.753,"endTime":1805.793,"body":"new revenue, it's"},{"startTime":1805.793,"endTime":1807.293,"body":"about saving money."},{"startTime":1807.293,"endTime":1807.393,"body":"Okay."},{"startTime":1807.693,"endTime":1811.728,"body":"Let's star generating more"},{"startTime":1807.693,"endTime":1811.728,"body":"revenue , this is when"},{"startTime":1811.728,"endTime":1813.318,"body":"private equity takes over."},{"startTime":1813.678,"endTime":1815.233,"body":"That, that's what, that's"},{"startTime":1813.678,"endTime":1815.233,"body":"what they're, that's"},{"startTime":1815.233,"endTime":1815.633,"body":"that's what they do."},{"startTime":1815.633,"endTime":1817.518,"body":"They optimize, then"},{"startTime":1815.633,"endTime":1817.518,"body":"they bumped revenue."},{"startTime":1817.618,"endTime":1821.848,"body":"They try to optimize their"},{"startTime":1817.618,"endTime":1821.848,"body":"way into increasing revenue."},{"startTime":1822.238,"endTime":1825.128,"body":"But it's not efficiency"},{"startTime":1822.238,"endTime":1825.128,"body":"that leads to more revenue."},{"startTime":1825.428,"endTime":1829.028,"body":"It's effectiveness of your"},{"startTime":1825.428,"endTime":1829.028,"body":"solutions that lead to more"},{"startTime":1829.028,"endTime":1831.488,"body":"revenue, but it's a safer way"},{"startTime":1829.028,"endTime":1831.488,"body":"than hiring a bunch of people"},{"startTime":1831.488,"endTime":1832.658,"body":"and then expected revenue go up."},{"startTime":1832.778,"endTime":1834.218,"body":"What if get revenue"},{"startTime":1832.778,"endTime":1834.218,"body":"doesn't go up?"},{"startTime":1834.268,"endTime":1834.988,"body":"I agree with that."},{"startTime":1834.988,"endTime":1837.898,"body":"It is a safer play and that's"},{"startTime":1834.988,"endTime":1837.898,"body":"probably why the private"},{"startTime":1837.898,"endTime":1840.538,"body":"equity firms who are mostly"},{"startTime":1837.898,"endTime":1840.538,"body":"staffed by financial folks"},{"startTime":1840.538,"endTime":1843.028,"body":"like that, that's they're"},{"startTime":1840.538,"endTime":1843.028,"body":"doing a financial calculation"},{"startTime":1843.028,"endTime":1845.038,"body":"saying, well, was less risk"},{"startTime":1843.028,"endTime":1845.038,"body":"in this 'cause we don't know"},{"startTime":1845.038,"endTime":1846.658,"body":"how to come up with new ideas."},{"startTime":1846.658,"endTime":1846.748,"body":"Right."},{"startTime":1846.748,"endTime":1850.098,"body":"Also, private equity is like"},{"startTime":1846.748,"endTime":1850.098,"body":"safer way of business than VC"},{"startTime":1850.103,"endTime":1851.538,"body":"VCs are risk takers by nature."},{"startTime":1851.538,"endTime":1851.808,"body":"Right?"},{"startTime":1852.018,"endTime":1854.748,"body":"'cause they invest and private"},{"startTime":1852.018,"endTime":1854.748,"body":"equity is a what optimizing so."},{"startTime":1854.998,"endTime":1856.618,"body":"But, in the future where"},{"startTime":1854.998,"endTime":1856.618,"body":"everyone is a software"},{"startTime":1856.618,"endTime":1859.498,"body":"engineer, can come up with"},{"startTime":1856.618,"endTime":1859.498,"body":"solutions from scratch and"},{"startTime":1859.498,"endTime":1860.638,"body":"send them to production."},{"startTime":1860.638,"endTime":1864.178,"body":"That's the future I wanna bring"},{"startTime":1860.638,"endTime":1864.178,"body":"you to, to have this discussion."},{"startTime":1864.478,"endTime":1866.638,"body":"Doesn't product"},{"startTime":1864.478,"endTime":1866.638,"body":"management become."},{"startTime":1867.113,"endTime":1867.743,"body":"Untenable."},{"startTime":1867.863,"endTime":1868.973,"body":"Which projects are going?"},{"startTime":1868.973,"endTime":1872.163,"body":"Are we gonna finance,"},{"startTime":1868.973,"endTime":1872.163,"body":"which new product ideas"},{"startTime":1872.163,"endTime":1872.913,"body":"are we gonna finance?"},{"startTime":1873.063,"endTime":1876.933,"body":"How much of someone's time do"},{"startTime":1873.063,"endTime":1876.933,"body":"we let them be free to vibe,"},{"startTime":1876.933,"endTime":1878.493,"body":"code, potential solutions?"},{"startTime":1878.543,"endTime":1881.003,"body":"Right now, if you just"},{"startTime":1878.543,"endTime":1881.003,"body":"internally source from"},{"startTime":1881.003,"endTime":1883.103,"body":"your employees, like how"},{"startTime":1881.003,"endTime":1883.103,"body":"many employees do you have?"},{"startTime":1883.103,"endTime":1883.703,"body":"Like 35."},{"startTime":1883.823,"endTime":1884.063,"body":"Okay."},{"startTime":1884.063,"endTime":1886.523,"body":"35. So if you go to your"},{"startTime":1884.063,"endTime":1886.523,"body":"35 employees, you get"},{"startTime":1886.523,"endTime":1887.093,"body":"'em all in one room."},{"startTime":1887.093,"endTime":1889.643,"body":"You say, I want to generate"},{"startTime":1887.093,"endTime":1889.643,"body":"some new product ideas."},{"startTime":1889.943,"endTime":1892.403,"body":"And you get 20 ideas"},{"startTime":1889.943,"endTime":1892.403,"body":"out of that session."},{"startTime":1892.733,"endTime":1895.853,"body":"Like you have to go through"},{"startTime":1892.733,"endTime":1895.853,"body":"and prior, like you pick one"},{"startTime":1895.853,"endTime":1899.543,"body":"at a time in the vibe code"},{"startTime":1895.853,"endTime":1899.543,"body":"world of the future, you don't"},{"startTime":1899.543,"endTime":1900.563,"body":"need to pick one at a time."},{"startTime":1900.593,"endTime":1902.963,"body":"You test like 20 different"},{"startTime":1900.593,"endTime":1902.963,"body":"people come up with"},{"startTime":1902.963,"endTime":1903.833,"body":"20 different ideas."},{"startTime":1904.073,"endTime":1907.283,"body":"You can test 20 ideas at the"},{"startTime":1904.073,"endTime":1907.283,"body":"same time because they can"},{"startTime":1907.283,"endTime":1910.523,"body":"all be basically their own"},{"startTime":1907.283,"endTime":1910.523,"body":"software engineering team and"},{"startTime":1910.873,"endTime":1913.153,"body":", I'm steering us into a whole"},{"startTime":1910.873,"endTime":1913.153,"body":"different podcast right now."},{"startTime":1913.153,"endTime":1915.013,"body":"But go along with me 'cause"},{"startTime":1913.153,"endTime":1915.013,"body":"I'm on a, I'm on a roll."},{"startTime":1915.043,"endTime":1916.453,"body":"This is where I wanted"},{"startTime":1915.043,"endTime":1916.453,"body":"to go on this podcast"},{"startTime":1916.453,"endTime":1917.263,"body":"'cause I think it's cool."},{"startTime":1917.563,"endTime":1920.443,"body":"Real product management,"},{"startTime":1917.563,"endTime":1920.443,"body":"like not project management,"},{"startTime":1920.443,"endTime":1923.743,"body":"real product management is,"},{"startTime":1920.443,"endTime":1923.743,"body":"I'm going to give the thumbs"},{"startTime":1923.743,"endTime":1929.263,"body":"up, the financial thumbs"},{"startTime":1923.743,"endTime":1929.263,"body":"up for 20 parallel tests to"},{"startTime":1929.263,"endTime":1930.253,"body":"happen against the market."},{"startTime":1930.463,"endTime":1932.503,"body":"Most people don't even get"},{"startTime":1930.463,"endTime":1932.503,"body":"one test against the market."},{"startTime":1932.803,"endTime":1933.703,"body":"20 parallel tests."},{"startTime":1933.703,"endTime":1933.883,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":1933.943,"endTime":1934.813,"body":"I'm gonna disrupt you."},{"startTime":1934.873,"endTime":1935.113,"body":"Okay."},{"startTime":1935.213,"endTime":1937.433,"body":"You're talking about product"},{"startTime":1935.213,"endTime":1937.433,"body":"managers at large corporations"},{"startTime":1937.703,"endTime":1941.733,"body":"where they getting paid for"},{"startTime":1937.703,"endTime":1941.733,"body":"doing niche things, right?"},{"startTime":1942.033,"endTime":1945.573,"body":"They're getting paid for testing"},{"startTime":1942.033,"endTime":1945.573,"body":"ideas on the market while I"},{"startTime":1945.573,"endTime":1948.423,"body":"have projects and I have product"},{"startTime":1945.573,"endTime":1948.423,"body":"manager, they are adjusting"},{"startTime":1948.453,"endTime":1949.803,"body":"Jira and they're moving tickets."},{"startTime":1950.103,"endTime":1953.133,"body":"So have to clarify what"},{"startTime":1950.103,"endTime":1953.133,"body":"is product manager."},{"startTime":1953.568,"endTime":1956.268,"body":"In your scenario when you"},{"startTime":1953.568,"endTime":1956.268,"body":"bring up your arguments"},{"startTime":1956.418,"endTime":1959.933,"body":"product manager in a, a"},{"startTime":1956.418,"endTime":1959.933,"body":"quote, real product manager."},{"startTime":1960.233,"endTime":1964.643,"body":"Meaning, meaning what my role"},{"startTime":1960.233,"endTime":1964.643,"body":"is, is I am a founder with"},{"startTime":1964.643,"endTime":1969.023,"body":"entire like, wing of the company"},{"startTime":1964.643,"endTime":1969.023,"body":"and we, we test new businesses."},{"startTime":1969.203,"endTime":1970.853,"body":"You drive business"},{"startTime":1969.203,"endTime":1970.853,"body":"decisions basically?"},{"startTime":1971.153,"endTime":1971.513,"body":"Yes."},{"startTime":1971.513,"endTime":1971.514,"body":"Yes."},{"startTime":1971.814,"endTime":1972.144,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":1972.144,"endTime":1972.145,"body":"Okay."},{"startTime":1972.294,"endTime":1976.614,"body":"I don't do, there is an element"},{"startTime":1972.294,"endTime":1976.614,"body":"of project management inside of"},{"startTime":1976.734,"endTime":1979.524,"body":"product management, but not more"},{"startTime":1976.734,"endTime":1979.524,"body":"than like, there's an element"},{"startTime":1979.524,"endTime":1982.374,"body":"of project management inside"},{"startTime":1979.524,"endTime":1982.374,"body":"of any executive function."},{"startTime":1982.434,"endTime":1984.974,"body":"Like you have deadlines,"},{"startTime":1982.434,"endTime":1984.974,"body":"you have to start"},{"startTime":1984.974,"endTime":1986.234,"body":"things, finish things."},{"startTime":1986.534,"endTime":1989.004,"body":"project management is just"},{"startTime":1986.534,"endTime":1989.004,"body":"part of the world but to me"},{"startTime":1989.004,"endTime":1990.084,"body":"it's a minor part of the world."},{"startTime":1990.089,"endTime":1991.764,"body":"But how are you gonna"},{"startTime":1990.089,"endTime":1991.764,"body":"test 20 ideas if you are a"},{"startTime":1991.764,"endTime":1993.999,"body":"small company and you have"},{"startTime":1991.764,"endTime":1993.999,"body":"to go to market fast now."},{"startTime":1994.014,"endTime":1996.294,"body":"Now you're getting there now,"},{"startTime":1994.014,"endTime":1996.294,"body":"now, like now you're, now"},{"startTime":1996.294,"endTime":1998.094,"body":"you're in line with what I"},{"startTime":1996.294,"endTime":1998.094,"body":"wanted to bring up, which is."},{"startTime":1998.109,"endTime":1998.139,"body":"Okay."},{"startTime":1998.139,"endTime":2000.839,"body":"In the past, you'd get"},{"startTime":1998.139,"endTime":2000.839,"body":"20 people together, you'd"},{"startTime":2000.839,"endTime":2003.569,"body":"brainstorm an idea, like om"},{"startTime":2000.839,"endTime":2003.569,"body":"can tell you like, there's some"},{"startTime":2003.569,"endTime":2006.209,"body":"frameworks where you kind of"},{"startTime":2003.569,"endTime":2006.209,"body":"like funnel your ideas down."},{"startTime":2006.214,"endTime":2008.189,"body":"Prioritization, prioritization,"},{"startTime":2006.214,"endTime":2008.189,"body":"stuff like that."},{"startTime":2008.189,"endTime":2010.349,"body":", This is like"},{"startTime":2008.189,"endTime":2010.349,"body":"pre-testing of ideas."},{"startTime":2010.649,"endTime":2010.739,"body":"Right."},{"startTime":2010.739,"endTime":2012.419,"body":"But there's, so you're"},{"startTime":2010.739,"endTime":2012.419,"body":"channeling resources"},{"startTime":2012.539,"endTime":2013.709,"body":"in a given direction."},{"startTime":2013.769,"endTime":2013.979,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":2014.009,"endTime":2014.369,"body":"Right."},{"startTime":2014.459,"endTime":2017.369,"body":"And in the new world, every"},{"startTime":2014.459,"endTime":2017.369,"body":"directions are given direction."},{"startTime":2017.369,"endTime":2020.309,"body":"And multiple people are"},{"startTime":2017.369,"endTime":2020.309,"body":"channeling ideas everywhere."},{"startTime":2020.309,"endTime":2020.519,"body":"Right?"},{"startTime":2020.729,"endTime":2023.519,"body":"So first and foremost,"},{"startTime":2020.729,"endTime":2023.519,"body":"testing ideas against"},{"startTime":2023.519,"endTime":2024.599,"body":"the market isn't free."},{"startTime":2024.899,"endTime":2025.919,"body":"It costs money Right."},{"startTime":2025.919,"endTime":2026.309,"body":"To do this."},{"startTime":2026.309,"endTime":2026.699,"body":"Yeah, it does."},{"startTime":2026.699,"endTime":2028.439,"body":"So now you have 20"},{"startTime":2026.699,"endTime":2028.439,"body":"people at a time."},{"startTime":2028.739,"endTime":2029.849,"body":"It's costing the company money."},{"startTime":2029.849,"endTime":2029.939,"body":"Mm-hmm."},{"startTime":2030.179,"endTime":2033.029,"body":"So what what strategic"},{"startTime":2030.179,"endTime":2033.029,"body":"direction is the company"},{"startTime":2033.029,"endTime":2034.619,"body":"going in now at that point?"},{"startTime":2034.68,"endTime":2035.07,"body":"Oh boy."},{"startTime":2035.129,"endTime":2036.93,"body":"When you have 20 different"},{"startTime":2035.129,"endTime":2036.93,"body":"people pulling in"},{"startTime":2036.93,"endTime":2037.769,"body":"different directions."},{"startTime":2037.769,"endTime":2038.039,"body":"Right."},{"startTime":2038.099,"endTime":2040.499,"body":"And also, like most companies"},{"startTime":2038.099,"endTime":2040.499,"body":"like the strategies aren't"},{"startTime":2040.499,"endTime":2041.429,"body":"even written down on paper."},{"startTime":2041.429,"endTime":2043.499,"body":"So you already like the"},{"startTime":2041.429,"endTime":2043.499,"body":"question you just asked."},{"startTime":2043.979,"endTime":2045.999,"body":"Already is gonna put"},{"startTime":2043.979,"endTime":2045.999,"body":"you on the you know,"},{"startTime":2046.059,"endTime":2047.589,"body":"losing friends fast list."},{"startTime":2047.889,"endTime":2050.619,"body":"So, so like, but, but I,"},{"startTime":2047.889,"endTime":2050.619,"body":"I also, this is another"},{"startTime":2050.619,"endTime":2051.309,"body":"one of those categories."},{"startTime":2051.309,"endTime":2053.679,"body":"I started out being a little"},{"startTime":2051.309,"endTime":2053.679,"body":"sassy, and now that we've"},{"startTime":2053.679,"endTime":2056.409,"body":"talked about it, I actually"},{"startTime":2053.679,"endTime":2056.409,"body":"like the future of this world."},{"startTime":2056.619,"endTime":2059.309,"body":"I like the future of where"},{"startTime":2056.619,"endTime":2059.309,"body":"we're hey, it takes us this"},{"startTime":2059.309,"endTime":2063.239,"body":"much money right now to"},{"startTime":2059.309,"endTime":2063.239,"body":"test one idea on the market."},{"startTime":2063.369,"endTime":2063.874,"body":"Time, right?"},{"startTime":2063.874,"endTime":2064.024,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":2064.024,"endTime":2065.079,"body":"Time is critical."},{"startTime":2065.164,"endTime":2065.944,"body":"Time is critical."},{"startTime":2065.944,"endTime":2066.424,"body":"Exactly."},{"startTime":2066.424,"endTime":2066.514,"body":"Yes."},{"startTime":2066.544,"endTime":2069.294,"body":"And now, now that everybody"},{"startTime":2066.544,"endTime":2069.294,"body":"I mean, do they need a"},{"startTime":2069.294,"endTime":2071.454,"body":"little help from the product"},{"startTime":2069.294,"endTime":2071.454,"body":"manager to kind of help"},{"startTime":2071.544,"endTime":2074.934,"body":"understand like what metrics"},{"startTime":2071.544,"endTime":2074.934,"body":"should you be looking for?"},{"startTime":2075.114,"endTime":2078.974,"body":"What how do customer outreach,"},{"startTime":2075.114,"endTime":2078.974,"body":"how to kind of market and"},{"startTime":2079.034,"endTime":2080.294,"body":"advocate for your ideas?"},{"startTime":2080.594,"endTime":2083.084,"body":"Yeah, they need a little bit of"},{"startTime":2080.594,"endTime":2083.084,"body":"coaching on product management,"},{"startTime":2083.294,"endTime":2085.394,"body":"but if you have professional"},{"startTime":2083.294,"endTime":2085.394,"body":"product managers in the house."},{"startTime":2085.694,"endTime":2087.854,"body":"Not, not pro, not a given,"},{"startTime":2085.694,"endTime":2087.854,"body":"not project managers"},{"startTime":2087.854,"endTime":2089.089,"body":"who are really Yeah, but"},{"startTime":2087.854,"endTime":2089.089,"body":"that's not a given though."},{"startTime":2089.114,"endTime":2093.284,"body":"Why this future excites me now"},{"startTime":2089.114,"endTime":2093.284,"body":"is the actual professionals"},{"startTime":2093.284,"endTime":2098.324,"body":"in that space become respected"},{"startTime":2093.284,"endTime":2098.324,"body":"experts and coaches for their"},{"startTime":2098.324,"endTime":2101.984,"body":"discipline out to a wider"},{"startTime":2098.324,"endTime":2101.984,"body":"audience who is now more capable"},{"startTime":2102.074,"endTime":2103.184,"body":"because they got better tools."},{"startTime":2103.344,"endTime":2103.914,"body":"That's cool."},{"startTime":2104.064,"endTime":2106.075,"body":"First of all, not, not, I am"},{"startTime":2104.064,"endTime":2106.075,"body":"not playing the role in this"},{"startTime":2106.075,"endTime":2108.204,"body":"podcast that I thought I would"},{"startTime":2106.075,"endTime":2108.204,"body":"be playing when we started."},{"startTime":2108.254,"endTime":2110.764,"body":"Here's a cool future where"},{"startTime":2108.254,"endTime":2110.764,"body":"like you dude, instead of"},{"startTime":2110.764,"endTime":2113.854,"body":"all of these tests that"},{"startTime":2110.764,"endTime":2113.854,"body":"people have to vibe code"},{"startTime":2113.854,"endTime":2117.364,"body":"solutions out quickly for"},{"startTime":2113.854,"endTime":2117.364,"body":"all bottlenecking through the"},{"startTime":2117.364,"endTime":2120.334,"body":"product manager where we can,"},{"startTime":2117.364,"endTime":2120.334,"body":"oh, the product manager can only"},{"startTime":2120.334,"endTime":2122.014,"body":"like deal with one of these."},{"startTime":2122.314,"endTime":2124.055,"body":"Every two, three weeks."},{"startTime":2124.355,"endTime":2126.424,"body":"Now we're doing 20"},{"startTime":2124.355,"endTime":2126.424,"body":"tests in parallel."},{"startTime":2126.725,"endTime":2126.995,"body":"Okay."},{"startTime":2126.995,"endTime":2130.415,"body":"Well, we need, like quickly,"},{"startTime":2126.995,"endTime":2130.415,"body":"we need a scaled product"},{"startTime":2130.415,"endTime":2131.375,"body":"management solution."},{"startTime":2131.375,"endTime":2133.535,"body":"But in the future, you're"},{"startTime":2131.375,"endTime":2133.535,"body":"saying that we have to ship 20"},{"startTime":2133.535,"endTime":2135.305,"body":"features in parallel and see"},{"startTime":2133.535,"endTime":2135.305,"body":"what's working, what's not."},{"startTime":2135.605,"endTime":2136.181,"body":"How will you test it?"},{"startTime":2136.615,"endTime":2139.115,"body":"If you have one product"},{"startTime":2136.615,"endTime":2139.115,"body":"manager , we don't bottleneck"},{"startTime":2139.115,"endTime":2141.575,"body":"that one product manager"},{"startTime":2139.115,"endTime":2141.575,"body":"to be like, Mr. Product"},{"startTime":2141.575,"endTime":2142.685,"body":"manager, Mr. Product Manager."},{"startTime":2142.895,"endTime":2144.245,"body":"You've gotta test the solution."},{"startTime":2144.545,"endTime":2147.335,"body":"We open it up, we"},{"startTime":2144.545,"endTime":2147.335,"body":"democratize the testing"},{"startTime":2147.755,"endTime":2148.805,"body":"of business ideas now."},{"startTime":2148.805,"endTime":2148.895,"body":"Mm-hmm."},{"startTime":2149.195,"endTime":2151.715,"body":"And help coach just like we're"},{"startTime":2149.195,"endTime":2151.715,"body":"doing with the developers"},{"startTime":2152.015,"endTime":2156.395,"body":", what I guess my takeaway for"},{"startTime":2152.015,"endTime":2156.395,"body":"this is you can't open up the"},{"startTime":2156.395,"endTime":2160.205,"body":"field of software development"},{"startTime":2156.395,"endTime":2160.205,"body":"without opening up the field"},{"startTime":2160.205,"endTime":2163.985,"body":"of the Marty Kagan holy triad"},{"startTime":2160.205,"endTime":2163.985,"body":"of the designer, the product"},{"startTime":2163.985,"endTime":2165.245,"body":"manager and the developer."},{"startTime":2165.545,"endTime":2168.725,"body":"All three of those positions"},{"startTime":2165.545,"endTime":2168.725,"body":"now have to get opened up."},{"startTime":2169.025,"endTime":2171.695,"body":"You know, so if you're gonna be"},{"startTime":2169.025,"endTime":2171.695,"body":"a product engineer like this,"},{"startTime":2171.695,"endTime":2173.705,"body":"the thing that the Silicon"},{"startTime":2171.695,"endTime":2173.705,"body":"Valley people are pitching"},{"startTime":2173.705,"endTime":2176.225,"body":"now where like just have"},{"startTime":2173.705,"endTime":2176.225,"body":"the product manager code all"},{"startTime":2176.225,"endTime":2178.805,"body":"the solutions and do all the"},{"startTime":2176.225,"endTime":2178.805,"body":"designs, and do all their own"},{"startTime":2178.805,"endTime":2181.415,"body":"stunts and do their CGI and"},{"startTime":2178.805,"endTime":2181.415,"body":"their own movies or whatever."},{"startTime":2181.415,"endTime":2183.394,"body":"I think it's more like"},{"startTime":2181.415,"endTime":2183.394,"body":"engineers who has to understand"},{"startTime":2183.394,"endTime":2185.825,"body":"product rather than product"},{"startTime":2183.394,"endTime":2185.825,"body":"managers doing coding."},{"startTime":2185.825,"endTime":2188.725,"body":"It's just, that's a tough"},{"startTime":2185.825,"endTime":2188.725,"body":"ask because product requires"},{"startTime":2188.725,"endTime":2191.665,"body":"specific skill sets that"},{"startTime":2188.725,"endTime":2191.665,"body":"typically you don't have"},{"startTime":2191.725,"endTime":2192.655,"body":"in engineers, right?"},{"startTime":2192.655,"endTime":2194.245,"body":"You have to have empathy"},{"startTime":2192.655,"endTime":2194.245,"body":"for the customer."},{"startTime":2194.545,"endTime":2196.105,"body":"You have to reach"},{"startTime":2194.545,"endTime":2196.105,"body":"out and get signals."},{"startTime":2196.105,"endTime":2198.325,"body":"Those aren't things that"},{"startTime":2196.105,"endTime":2198.325,"body":"engineers generally."},{"startTime":2198.785,"endTime":2199.325,"body":"Possess."},{"startTime":2199.355,"endTime":2202.105,"body":"Most engineers will say feed me"},{"startTime":2199.355,"endTime":2202.105,"body":"pizza, leave me in the basement."},{"startTime":2202.105,"endTime":2203.455,"body":"I'm gonna turn out good code."},{"startTime":2203.815,"endTime":2204.115,"body":"Right."},{"startTime":2204.115,"endTime":2207.325,"body":"So it requires that aptitude"},{"startTime":2204.115,"endTime":2207.325,"body":"Which they have to learn"},{"startTime":2207.325,"endTime":2208.285,"body":"and it can be learned."},{"startTime":2208.345,"endTime":2210.775,"body":"But we haven't seen"},{"startTime":2208.345,"endTime":2210.775,"body":"that thus far, I think."},{"startTime":2210.775,"endTime":2213.865,"body":"But by product engineer,"},{"startTime":2210.775,"endTime":2213.865,"body":"what we mean is the software"},{"startTime":2213.865,"endTime":2215.455,"body":"engineer with product instincts,"},{"startTime":2215.555,"endTime":2219.615,"body":"And also by product"},{"startTime":2215.555,"endTime":2219.615,"body":"designer, we mean UX designer"},{"startTime":2219.615,"endTime":2220.905,"body":"with product instincts."},{"startTime":2220.92,"endTime":2224.48,"body":"Oftentimes I witnessed this"},{"startTime":2220.92,"endTime":2224.48,"body":"too many times to count UX"},{"startTime":2224.48,"endTime":2228.74,"body":"designers will come up with"},{"startTime":2224.48,"endTime":2228.74,"body":"ideas, which is not relevant"},{"startTime":2228.74,"endTime":2229.85,"body":"to the customer at all."},{"startTime":2229.95,"endTime":2232.47,"body":"Because they think I'm"},{"startTime":2229.95,"endTime":2232.47,"body":"creative person here."},{"startTime":2232.57,"endTime":2235.72,"body":"I am giving my creativity for"},{"startTime":2232.57,"endTime":2235.72,"body":"you in exchange, for your money."},{"startTime":2236.02,"endTime":2237.13,"body":"But it's not the case."},{"startTime":2237.21,"endTime":2239.34,"body":"UX designer is about creativity."},{"startTime":2239.34,"endTime":2239.97,"body":"That's correct."},{"startTime":2239.97,"endTime":2243.03,"body":"But it's not about your"},{"startTime":2239.97,"endTime":2243.03,"body":"creativity, it's about how you"},{"startTime":2243.03,"endTime":2244.89,"body":"approach the problem of market."},{"startTime":2245.34,"endTime":2245.94,"body":"Customer."},{"startTime":2246.33,"endTime":2248.46,"body":"And I think same thing will be"},{"startTime":2246.33,"endTime":2248.46,"body":"happening everywhere, right?"},{"startTime":2248.49,"endTime":2251.28,"body":"Product designers, product"},{"startTime":2248.49,"endTime":2251.28,"body":"engineers, product testers."},{"startTime":2251.67,"endTime":2255.36,"body":"Not only people who are testing"},{"startTime":2251.67,"endTime":2255.36,"body":"it, but also prioritizing"},{"startTime":2255.36,"endTime":2256.2,"body":"what to test first, right?"},{"startTime":2256.2,"endTime":2259.08,"body":"So I think that will happen,"},{"startTime":2256.2,"endTime":2259.08,"body":"but I think the product"},{"startTime":2259.08,"endTime":2262.38,"body":"managers role will be crucial"},{"startTime":2259.08,"endTime":2262.38,"body":"because they will be the"},{"startTime":2262.38,"endTime":2265.32,"body":"ones who everyone will come"},{"startTime":2262.38,"endTime":2265.32,"body":"up and understand, okay, is"},{"startTime":2265.32,"endTime":2266.22,"body":"this what business needs?"},{"startTime":2266.52,"endTime":2269.49,"body":"You know, because software"},{"startTime":2266.52,"endTime":2269.49,"body":"engineers now is waiting"},{"startTime":2269.49,"endTime":2271.65,"body":"for directions, as I"},{"startTime":2269.49,"endTime":2271.65,"body":"mentioned, what to develop."},{"startTime":2271.78,"endTime":2273.58,"body":"They have no clue what"},{"startTime":2271.78,"endTime":2273.58,"body":"company they work for."},{"startTime":2273.94,"endTime":2275.89,"body":"They have no clue what's"},{"startTime":2273.94,"endTime":2275.89,"body":"the business of the company."},{"startTime":2276.28,"endTime":2278.67,"body":"They have no clue how"},{"startTime":2276.28,"endTime":2278.67,"body":"they generate revenue, but"},{"startTime":2278.88,"endTime":2281.67,"body":"eventually I think we're"},{"startTime":2278.88,"endTime":2281.67,"body":"gonna have people who are more"},{"startTime":2281.67,"endTime":2285.02,"body":"like Modern product managers"},{"startTime":2281.67,"endTime":2285.02,"body":"who have empathy, customer"},{"startTime":2285.02,"endTime":2286.7,"body":"empathy, customer instincts."},{"startTime":2286.73,"endTime":2286.88,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":2286.88,"endTime":2289.85,"body":"Market instincts, and"},{"startTime":2286.88,"endTime":2289.85,"body":"also understanding why"},{"startTime":2289.85,"endTime":2290.96,"body":"I'm doing this, you know?"},{"startTime":2290.985,"endTime":2291.405,"body":"Mm-hmm."},{"startTime":2291.53,"endTime":2293.57,"body":"and especially in this world"},{"startTime":2291.53,"endTime":2293.57,"body":"where a lot of people are"},{"startTime":2293.57,"endTime":2295.49,"body":"driven by certain initiatives."},{"startTime":2295.85,"endTime":2297.83,"body":"Some people care about"},{"startTime":2295.85,"endTime":2297.83,"body":"animal rights, some people"},{"startTime":2297.83,"endTime":2300.7,"body":"care about certain stuff and"},{"startTime":2297.83,"endTime":2300.7,"body":"nothing stops people from"},{"startTime":2300.7,"endTime":2303.01,"body":"working for companies and for"},{"startTime":2300.7,"endTime":2303.01,"body":"causes that they care about."},{"startTime":2303.22,"endTime":2303.28,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":2303.31,"endTime":2304.805,"body":"So yeah, I think"},{"startTime":2303.31,"endTime":2304.805,"body":"that's the future."},{"startTime":2304.835,"endTime":2304.925,"body":"Mm-hmm."},{"startTime":2305.165,"endTime":2308.015,"body":"I think vibe coding alone"},{"startTime":2305.165,"endTime":2308.015,"body":"is not gonna cut it."},{"startTime":2308.015,"endTime":2311.015,"body":"But if you have this market"},{"startTime":2308.015,"endTime":2311.015,"body":"instincts, product instincts, I"},{"startTime":2311.015,"endTime":2312.665,"body":"think that's where a success is."},{"startTime":2312.665,"endTime":2312.815,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":2312.965,"endTime":2313.505,"body":"In my opinion."},{"startTime":2313.605,"endTime":2314.355,"body":"And I don't think you get that."},{"startTime":2314.355,"endTime":2318.165,"body":"like I said, I kind of slowly"},{"startTime":2314.355,"endTime":2318.165,"body":"changing my mind as we've"},{"startTime":2318.165,"endTime":2319.125,"body":"gone on with the podcast."},{"startTime":2319.425,"endTime":2321.665,"body":"I look forward to a future"},{"startTime":2319.425,"endTime":2321.665,"body":"where we have much better"},{"startTime":2321.665,"endTime":2325.835,"body":"tools to create and solve"},{"startTime":2321.665,"endTime":2325.835,"body":"business problems for actual"},{"startTime":2325.835,"endTime":2329.375,"body":"people, actual users and then"},{"startTime":2325.835,"endTime":2329.375,"body":"the people who are experts."},{"startTime":2329.425,"endTime":2333.835,"body":"The people that are experts are"},{"startTime":2329.425,"endTime":2333.835,"body":"coaches that kind of help and"},{"startTime":2333.835,"endTime":2334.885,"body":"adjust you know what I mean?"},{"startTime":2334.935,"endTime":2337.425,"body":"the coaches in the Marty Kagan"},{"startTime":2334.935,"endTime":2337.425,"body":"book and the Transform book"},{"startTime":2337.425,"endTime":2340.755,"body":"where he's like, oh, hey, like"},{"startTime":2337.425,"endTime":2340.755,"body":"product coaches, organizations"},{"startTime":2340.755,"endTime":2341.835,"body":"you're not quite getting it."},{"startTime":2341.835,"endTime":2343.575,"body":"I need to write a whole"},{"startTime":2341.835,"endTime":2343.575,"body":"book to help you along."},{"startTime":2343.735,"endTime":2346.195,"body":"Like he was like the modern"},{"startTime":2343.735,"endTime":2346.195,"body":"manager in these organizations"},{"startTime":2346.245,"endTime":2349.035,"body":"We don't need people to"},{"startTime":2346.245,"endTime":2349.035,"body":"stand over each other with"},{"startTime":2349.035,"endTime":2351.215,"body":"a clipboard and yell at you"},{"startTime":2349.035,"endTime":2351.215,"body":"to Move along or whatever."},{"startTime":2351.22,"endTime":2354.105,"body":"Exactly we need you to coach"},{"startTime":2351.22,"endTime":2354.105,"body":"these folks and help them"},{"startTime":2354.105,"endTime":2356.535,"body":"develop their skills and"},{"startTime":2354.105,"endTime":2356.535,"body":"understand what the business"},{"startTime":2356.535,"endTime":2358.155,"body":"needs for them and what"},{"startTime":2356.535,"endTime":2358.155,"body":"they need in the market."},{"startTime":2358.155,"endTime":2361.925,"body":"And the, the scary part"},{"startTime":2358.155,"endTime":2361.925,"body":"is companies are not"},{"startTime":2361.925,"endTime":2363.155,"body":"hiring entry level people."},{"startTime":2363.155,"endTime":2366.845,"body":"I think of entry level people"},{"startTime":2363.155,"endTime":2366.845,"body":"as having like straight"},{"startTime":2366.845,"endTime":2369.995,"body":"outta college, no work"},{"startTime":2366.845,"endTime":2369.995,"body":"experience, entry level."},{"startTime":2370.265,"endTime":2372.545,"body":"And companies are not"},{"startTime":2370.265,"endTime":2372.545,"body":"hiring entry level anymore."},{"startTime":2372.595,"endTime":2374.725,"body":"they're looking for people with"},{"startTime":2372.595,"endTime":2374.725,"body":"like three years experience"},{"startTime":2374.725,"endTime":2378.235,"body":"and that's the floor and that's"},{"startTime":2374.725,"endTime":2378.235,"body":"their new quote, entry level."},{"startTime":2378.535,"endTime":2380.725,"body":"And there's a lot of games to"},{"startTime":2378.535,"endTime":2380.725,"body":"be played with that or whatever,"},{"startTime":2380.725,"endTime":2382.465,"body":"the, the, in this, in this."},{"startTime":2382.765,"endTime":2385.585,"body":"In this world where they're"},{"startTime":2382.765,"endTime":2385.585,"body":"trying to replace the junior"},{"startTime":2385.585,"endTime":2388.875,"body":"employees, whether that's"},{"startTime":2385.585,"endTime":2388.875,"body":"marketing people or QA"},{"startTime":2389.175,"endTime":2392.025,"body":"people or junior software"},{"startTime":2389.175,"endTime":2392.025,"body":"engineers or whatever."},{"startTime":2392.275,"endTime":2395.335,"body":"There is an effect of trying"},{"startTime":2392.275,"endTime":2395.335,"body":"to say, well, we'll just have"},{"startTime":2395.335,"endTime":2398.725,"body":"AI and we'll just have senior"},{"startTime":2395.335,"endTime":2398.725,"body":"people to coach and AI to do"},{"startTime":2398.725,"endTime":2402.305,"body":"the work, and then we won't have"},{"startTime":2398.725,"endTime":2402.305,"body":"junior engineers anymore does"},{"startTime":2402.305,"endTime":2403.685,"body":"that, that creates a problem."},{"startTime":2403.685,"endTime":2406.205,"body":"I think, and I don't think I'm"},{"startTime":2403.685,"endTime":2406.205,"body":"gonna switch sides on this one."},{"startTime":2406.205,"endTime":2407.315,"body":"I think that creates a problem."},{"startTime":2407.365,"endTime":2409.765,"body":"It is gonna create"},{"startTime":2407.365,"endTime":2409.765,"body":"problems for the future."},{"startTime":2409.875,"endTime":2410.175,"body":"Right."},{"startTime":2410.175,"endTime":2413.485,"body":"Because what's gonna happen"},{"startTime":2410.175,"endTime":2413.485,"body":"with those people that go"},{"startTime":2413.485,"endTime":2414.775,"body":"through the mill, right."},{"startTime":2414.775,"endTime":2417.775,"body":"And the new intake, they"},{"startTime":2414.775,"endTime":2417.775,"body":"can't get jobs Right."},{"startTime":2417.775,"endTime":2419.215,"body":"Because of the"},{"startTime":2417.775,"endTime":2419.215,"body":"floor you mentioned."},{"startTime":2419.275,"endTime":2419.455,"body":"Right."},{"startTime":2419.485,"endTime":2420.445,"body":"What's gonna happen to that?"},{"startTime":2420.775,"endTime":2423.655,"body":"What's gonna happen to the"},{"startTime":2420.775,"endTime":2423.655,"body":"need of the industry 5, 7,"},{"startTime":2423.655,"endTime":2426.475,"body":"8 years into this journey?"},{"startTime":2426.555,"endTime":2427.995,"body":"I'm optimistic"},{"startTime":2426.555,"endTime":2427.995,"body":"about it actually."},{"startTime":2428.065,"endTime":2430.065,"body":"Because first of all,"},{"startTime":2428.065,"endTime":2430.065,"body":"because some companies"},{"startTime":2430.155,"endTime":2432.545,"body":"are still hiring junior"},{"startTime":2430.155,"endTime":2432.545,"body":"developers as included, right?"},{"startTime":2432.575,"endTime":2435.635,"body":"Some companies cannot replace"},{"startTime":2432.575,"endTime":2435.635,"body":"everything with ai, government"},{"startTime":2435.875,"endTime":2439.045,"body":"related companies data sensitive"},{"startTime":2435.875,"endTime":2439.045,"body":"companies, like all this"},{"startTime":2439.095,"endTime":2441.875,"body":"companies that are dealing with"},{"startTime":2439.095,"endTime":2441.875,"body":"sensitive information, right?"},{"startTime":2441.875,"endTime":2444.635,"body":"They cannot replace everything"},{"startTime":2441.875,"endTime":2444.635,"body":"with AI because there's"},{"startTime":2444.635,"endTime":2445.745,"body":"still human touch needed."},{"startTime":2446.045,"endTime":2448.445,"body":"Another thing is"},{"startTime":2446.045,"endTime":2448.445,"body":"a liability issue."},{"startTime":2448.625,"endTime":2448.745,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":2448.805,"endTime":2452.075,"body":"You cannot fully get rid of"},{"startTime":2448.805,"endTime":2452.075,"body":"the people because someone"},{"startTime":2452.075,"endTime":2455.135,"body":"has to have a responsibility"},{"startTime":2452.075,"endTime":2455.135,"body":"for the outcome, you know?"},{"startTime":2455.135,"endTime":2455.225,"body":"Right."},{"startTime":2455.465,"endTime":2458.405,"body":"And if you can automate"},{"startTime":2455.465,"endTime":2458.405,"body":"everything, you will not"},{"startTime":2458.405,"endTime":2459.455,"body":"have someone to blame."},{"startTime":2459.455,"endTime":2462.155,"body":"And you can blame AI"},{"startTime":2459.455,"endTime":2462.155,"body":"tool technically, right?"},{"startTime":2462.305,"endTime":2462.365,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":2462.37,"endTime":2464.89,"body":"But it will be, I"},{"startTime":2462.37,"endTime":2464.89,"body":"think, less effective."},{"startTime":2465.19,"endTime":2468.53,"body":"Third historically, aren't"},{"startTime":2465.19,"endTime":2468.53,"body":"we all working less?"},{"startTime":2468.83,"endTime":2472.16,"body":"Like, imagine like 300 years"},{"startTime":2468.83,"endTime":2472.16,"body":"ago probably our grand,"},{"startTime":2472.16,"endTime":2475.19,"body":"grand grandparents worked"},{"startTime":2472.16,"endTime":2475.19,"body":"like 120 hours a week."},{"startTime":2475.49,"endTime":2477.86,"body":"And then they work"},{"startTime":2475.49,"endTime":2477.86,"body":"less 80 hours a week."},{"startTime":2478.07,"endTime":2481.04,"body":"And then they work like 60"},{"startTime":2478.07,"endTime":2481.04,"body":"hours a week and then they"},{"startTime":2481.04,"endTime":2482.33,"body":"work like 40 hours a week."},{"startTime":2482.33,"endTime":2485.48,"body":"Now we working 40 hours a week,"},{"startTime":2482.33,"endTime":2485.48,"body":"but not even all of, not even"},{"startTime":2485.48,"endTime":2488.72,"body":"people working 40 hours a week"},{"startTime":2485.48,"endTime":2488.72,"body":"Now, realistically, people"},{"startTime":2488.72,"endTime":2489.59,"body":"are working less actually."},{"startTime":2489.59,"endTime":2492.23,"body":"And the 40 hour thing only"},{"startTime":2489.59,"endTime":2492.23,"body":"'cause we did the Taylorism"},{"startTime":2492.23,"endTime":2494.72,"body":"podcast, did we di dive"},{"startTime":2492.23,"endTime":2494.72,"body":"down this rabbit hole?"},{"startTime":2494.72,"endTime":2496.55,"body":"But the like the 40"},{"startTime":2494.72,"endTime":2496.55,"body":"hour thing is less than"},{"startTime":2496.55,"endTime":2497.39,"body":"a hundred years old."},{"startTime":2497.81,"endTime":2498.38,"body":"Yeah, yeah."},{"startTime":2498.38,"endTime":2499.85,"body":"So people work way"},{"startTime":2498.38,"endTime":2499.85,"body":"more than that."},{"startTime":2499.9,"endTime":2503.05,"body":"What I'm optimistic about"},{"startTime":2499.9,"endTime":2503.05,"body":"is in the future we will"},{"startTime":2503.05,"endTime":2506.38,"body":"have certain work is done"},{"startTime":2503.05,"endTime":2506.38,"body":"by ai and then humans will"},{"startTime":2506.38,"endTime":2507.76,"body":"work less hours in a week."},{"startTime":2507.77,"endTime":2509.06,"body":"And we gonna just, we're"},{"startTime":2507.77,"endTime":2509.06,"body":"just gonna have more"},{"startTime":2509.06,"endTime":2510.02,"body":"time to enjoy lives."},{"startTime":2510.32,"endTime":2512.06,"body":"Are, am I, am I too?"},{"startTime":2512.06,"endTime":2512.125,"body":"No, no."},{"startTime":2512.125,"endTime":2512.84,"body":"You found naive."},{"startTime":2512.84,"endTime":2514.19,"body":"So we found the other side."},{"startTime":2514.19,"endTime":2514.46,"body":"Right?"},{"startTime":2514.46,"endTime":2515.18,"body":"Am I too naive?"},{"startTime":2515.18,"endTime":2518.18,"body":"Other You're not naive, but"},{"startTime":2515.18,"endTime":2518.18,"body":"also we're not gonna sell any AI"},{"startTime":2518.18,"endTime":2519.59,"body":"books to Mark Benioff with us."},{"startTime":2519.68,"endTime":2520.07,"body":"You know, like"},{"startTime":2520.46,"endTime":2522.35,"body":"lemme ask a question"},{"startTime":2520.46,"endTime":2522.35,"body":"before we move off."},{"startTime":2522.56,"endTime":2526.55,"body":"So we talked about developers"},{"startTime":2522.56,"endTime":2526.55,"body":"evolving into product, right?"},{"startTime":2526.55,"endTime":2528.86,"body":"Product engineers, we have"},{"startTime":2526.55,"endTime":2528.86,"body":"talked about, we talked"},{"startTime":2528.86,"endTime":2529.7,"body":"about the other side too."},{"startTime":2529.7,"endTime":2533.04,"body":"Maybe product can do some coding"},{"startTime":2529.7,"endTime":2533.04,"body":"through vibe, coding, et cetera."},{"startTime":2533.34,"endTime":2533.43,"body":"Mm-hmm."},{"startTime":2533.67,"endTime":2536.01,"body":"But the angle I"},{"startTime":2533.67,"endTime":2536.01,"body":"want approach now is"},{"startTime":2536.31,"endTime":2539.73,"body":"the customer has a problem so"},{"startTime":2536.31,"endTime":2539.73,"body":"can the customer not do some"},{"startTime":2540.21,"endTime":2543.24,"body":"vibe coding in conjunction with"},{"startTime":2540.21,"endTime":2543.24,"body":"developers and product people?"},{"startTime":2543.24,"endTime":2544.83,"body":"Do you think that's"},{"startTime":2543.24,"endTime":2544.83,"body":"a viable thing?"},{"startTime":2544.86,"endTime":2546.84,"body":"That's the beauty though"},{"startTime":2544.86,"endTime":2546.84,"body":"for example, you're using"},{"startTime":2546.84,"endTime":2549.99,"body":"certain tool that you need"},{"startTime":2546.84,"endTime":2549.99,"body":"to use, but you hate it and"},{"startTime":2549.99,"endTime":2551.67,"body":"now you wipe code something"},{"startTime":2549.99,"endTime":2551.67,"body":"better for yourself."},{"startTime":2551.97,"endTime":2554.04,"body":"I'd code Jira"},{"startTime":2551.97,"endTime":2554.04,"body":"replacements all day long."},{"startTime":2554.34,"endTime":2556.23,"body":"It can, you can even"},{"startTime":2554.34,"endTime":2556.23,"body":"still do it now if it's"},{"startTime":2556.23,"endTime":2557.49,"body":"solving your problem."},{"startTime":2557.67,"endTime":2560.16,"body":"And Brian, you told me that"},{"startTime":2557.67,"endTime":2560.16,"body":"you have you developing a tool"},{"startTime":2560.16,"endTime":2561.45,"body":"that's solving your problem."},{"startTime":2561.84,"endTime":2562.38,"body":"Why not?"},{"startTime":2562.5,"endTime":2562.98,"body":"Exactly."},{"startTime":2563.01,"endTime":2567.96,"body":"Obviously, you cannot replace"},{"startTime":2563.01,"endTime":2567.96,"body":"JIRA that's working for 500,000"},{"startTime":2567.96,"endTime":2569.07,"body":"people corporation, right?"},{"startTime":2569.125,"endTime":2571.17,"body":"But if it's solving your"},{"startTime":2569.125,"endTime":2571.17,"body":"own problem, why not?"},{"startTime":2571.17,"endTime":2573.99,"body":", There is a guy his name is Peter"},{"startTime":2571.17,"endTime":2573.99,"body":"Levels, if I'm not mistaken."},{"startTime":2574.33,"endTime":2575.35,"body":"He's a guy."},{"startTime":2575.38,"endTime":2578.05,"body":"He's, he's guy behind"},{"startTime":2575.38,"endTime":2578.05,"body":"the digital nomad remote."},{"startTime":2578.11,"endTime":2579.1,"body":"This, all this Yeah."},{"startTime":2579.1,"endTime":2579.55,"body":"Movement."},{"startTime":2579.59,"endTime":2582.825,"body":"He's shipping like new product,"},{"startTime":2579.59,"endTime":2582.825,"body":"every month he has like 20, 30"},{"startTime":2582.855,"endTime":2584.025,"body":"startups running in parallel."},{"startTime":2584.025,"endTime":2585.195,"body":"Something is working,"},{"startTime":2584.025,"endTime":2585.195,"body":"something's not."},{"startTime":2585.195,"endTime":2585.5,"body":"And he did solo."},{"startTime":2585.53,"endTime":2586.22,"body":"Yeah, yeah, yeah."},{"startTime":2586.22,"endTime":2587.98,"body":"Some He's putting"},{"startTime":2586.22,"endTime":2587.98,"body":"minimal effort."},{"startTime":2588.1,"endTime":2588.28,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":2588.58,"endTime":2589.45,"body":"Just working product."},{"startTime":2589.81,"endTime":2591.31,"body":"He has one file index."},{"startTime":2591.31,"endTime":2593.11,"body":"PP that's whole code is running."},{"startTime":2593.29,"endTime":2593.35,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":2593.74,"endTime":2594.01,"body":"Right."},{"startTime":2594.31,"endTime":2597.55,"body":"And he has customers,"},{"startTime":2594.31,"endTime":2597.55,"body":"he's scaling and he's"},{"startTime":2597.55,"endTime":2598.3,"body":"generating good money."},{"startTime":2598.3,"endTime":2599.26,"body":"He's a solo founder."},{"startTime":2599.56,"endTime":2600.64,"body":"It's like, why not?"},{"startTime":2600.82,"endTime":2601.57,"body":"Who is stopping you?"},{"startTime":2601.63,"endTime":2602.53,"body":"I mean, dude, right now."},{"startTime":2602.59,"endTime":2602.65,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":2602.65,"endTime":2604.42,"body":"I mean, if you have certain"},{"startTime":2602.65,"endTime":2604.42,"body":"understanding of the business,"},{"startTime":2604.42,"endTime":2607.55,"body":"of the code keep pushing it"},{"startTime":2604.42,"endTime":2607.55,"body":"and you'll, you'll get there."},{"startTime":2607.6,"endTime":2610.24,"body":"VC money, you don't even"},{"startTime":2607.6,"endTime":2610.24,"body":"need that because you can"},{"startTime":2610.24,"endTime":2611.89,"body":"build something small."},{"startTime":2612.16,"endTime":2614.35,"body":"I know a guy he's a"},{"startTime":2612.16,"endTime":2614.35,"body":"good friend of mine."},{"startTime":2614.8,"endTime":2618.35,"body":"He's built, kind of like a"},{"startTime":2614.8,"endTime":2618.35,"body":"service for mobile games, his"},{"startTime":2618.35,"endTime":2620.63,"body":"team is like three people,"},{"startTime":2618.35,"endTime":2620.63,"body":"four people himself, two"},{"startTime":2620.63,"endTime":2622.07,"body":"developers, one operations."},{"startTime":2622.1,"endTime":2622.22,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":2622.52,"endTime":2623.84,"body":"His revenue is like millions."},{"startTime":2624.19,"endTime":2627.18,"body":"So it's the final word is that"},{"startTime":2624.19,"endTime":2627.18,"body":"it's a lot easier to launch"},{"startTime":2627.18,"endTime":2629.16,"body":"your own micro SaaS Right."},{"startTime":2629.34,"endTime":2634.32,"body":"And get rich out of it"},{"startTime":2629.34,"endTime":2634.32,"body":"with AI than rely on Oh."},{"startTime":2634.53,"endTime":2636.39,"body":"Or employers gonna"},{"startTime":2634.53,"endTime":2636.39,"body":"fire me or not."},{"startTime":2636.69,"endTime":2637.05,"body":"You know?"},{"startTime":2637.05,"endTime":2639.12,"body":"So it's a lot of opportunities"},{"startTime":2637.05,"endTime":2639.12,"body":"right now for people"},{"startTime":2639.12,"endTime":2639.81,"body":"who wanna Absolutely."},{"startTime":2639.81,"endTime":2640.68,"body":"Even for juniors."},{"startTime":2640.685,"endTime":2640.935,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":2640.94,"endTime":2641.13,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":2641.22,"endTime":2643.77,"body":"If you are doing studying at"},{"startTime":2641.22,"endTime":2643.77,"body":"the college, if you do, you"},{"startTime":2643.77,"endTime":2646.05,"body":"learn, you're doing coding"},{"startTime":2643.77,"endTime":2646.05,"body":"every day when you're college."},{"startTime":2646.055,"endTime":2646.135,"body":"Mm-hmm."},{"startTime":2646.215,"endTime":2646.295,"body":"Right?"},{"startTime":2646.295,"endTime":2647.19,"body":"Because you have to learn."},{"startTime":2647.46,"endTime":2647.67,"body":"Right."},{"startTime":2647.67,"endTime":2648.96,"body":"You already have foundation."},{"startTime":2648.96,"endTime":2649.5,"body":"I mean, come on."},{"startTime":2649.63,"endTime":2650.83,"body":"where I have found success."},{"startTime":2651.235,"endTime":2653.635,"body":"Because I produce"},{"startTime":2651.235,"endTime":2653.635,"body":"the podcast myself."},{"startTime":2653.665,"endTime":2655.855,"body":"A lot of things that are"},{"startTime":2653.665,"endTime":2655.855,"body":"painful for me is like"},{"startTime":2656.155,"endTime":2659.605,"body":"about recording the podcast,"},{"startTime":2656.155,"endTime":2659.605,"body":"stitching things together,"},{"startTime":2659.785,"endTime":2661.915,"body":"distributing it, marketing it."},{"startTime":2662.285,"endTime":2666.365,"body":"there are no tools that"},{"startTime":2662.285,"endTime":2666.365,"body":"do that  let's not even"},{"startTime":2666.365,"endTime":2667.145,"body":"call it seamlessly."},{"startTime":2667.235,"endTime":2668.405,"body":"There's no tools that do that."},{"startTime":2668.455,"endTime":2670.115,"body":"roughly that work"},{"startTime":2668.455,"endTime":2670.115,"body":"with each other."},{"startTime":2670.115,"endTime":2671.795,"body":"You have to duct"},{"startTime":2670.115,"endTime":2671.795,"body":"tape certain stuff."},{"startTime":2671.795,"endTime":2672.065,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":2672.065,"endTime":2674.575,"body":"Same for us right now because"},{"startTime":2672.065,"endTime":2674.575,"body":"we do sales marketing."},{"startTime":2674.635,"endTime":2674.875,"body":"Right."},{"startTime":2675.115,"endTime":2678.145,"body":"It's multiple tools,"},{"startTime":2675.115,"endTime":2678.145,"body":"duct tape together."},{"startTime":2678.205,"endTime":2678.355,"body":"Mm-hmm."},{"startTime":2678.655,"endTime":2680.845,"body":"And I wish there was one"},{"startTime":2678.655,"endTime":2680.845,"body":"tool that's solving Right."},{"startTime":2680.965,"endTime":2681.865,"body":"My unique problem."},{"startTime":2681.895,"endTime":2682.195,"body":"Right."},{"startTime":2682.555,"endTime":2685.045,"body":"'cause I, my, my problem"},{"startTime":2682.555,"endTime":2685.045,"body":"is obviously common,"},{"startTime":2685.045,"endTime":2687.985,"body":"but I still have unique"},{"startTime":2685.045,"endTime":2687.985,"body":"challenges within the scope."},{"startTime":2688.045,"endTime":2688.315,"body":"Right."},{"startTime":2688.465,"endTime":2688.615,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":2688.795,"endTime":2691.46,"body":"And that'll be great to have"},{"startTime":2688.795,"endTime":2691.46,"body":"option to vibe, code something."},{"startTime":2691.46,"endTime":2691.62,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":2691.625,"endTime":2692.925,"body":"And solve my unique problem."},{"startTime":2693.075,"endTime":2696.095,"body":"See, I am not scared"},{"startTime":2693.075,"endTime":2696.095,"body":"of that future state."},{"startTime":2696.175,"endTime":2698.785,"body":"Real early when I met"},{"startTime":2696.175,"endTime":2698.785,"body":"Mike Miller, he's a"},{"startTime":2698.785,"endTime":2699.715,"body":"product coach, right?"},{"startTime":2700.015,"endTime":2701.845,"body":"Real early when I met"},{"startTime":2700.015,"endTime":2701.845,"body":"Mike Miller, he said"},{"startTime":2701.845,"endTime":2703.675,"body":"something that has stuck"},{"startTime":2701.845,"endTime":2703.675,"body":"with me all these years."},{"startTime":2703.985,"endTime":2706.985,"body":"So get off my lawn."},{"startTime":2706.985,"endTime":2708.005,"body":"I don't, I don't like, no."},{"startTime":2708.135,"endTime":2710.775,"body":"He said two things that have"},{"startTime":2708.135,"endTime":2710.775,"body":"stuck with me all these years."},{"startTime":2711.015,"endTime":2715.125,"body":"And the other thing was every"},{"startTime":2711.015,"endTime":2715.125,"body":"company is a technology company"},{"startTime":2715.545,"endTime":2717.945,"body":"because every company, like"},{"startTime":2715.545,"endTime":2717.945,"body":"with the, with the right tools,"},{"startTime":2718.155,"endTime":2720.855,"body":"every company would do what you"},{"startTime":2718.155,"endTime":2720.855,"body":"just said is like, Hey, I got"},{"startTime":2720.855,"endTime":2724.215,"body":"all these tools to, to do my"},{"startTime":2720.855,"endTime":2724.215,"body":"thing and then do marketing for"},{"startTime":2724.215,"endTime":2726.615,"body":"the thing and then get my leads"},{"startTime":2724.215,"endTime":2726.615,"body":"and bring 'em back in house."},{"startTime":2726.615,"endTime":2729.495,"body":"And I vibe coded"},{"startTime":2726.615,"endTime":2729.495,"body":"this custom solution."},{"startTime":2729.495,"endTime":2732.705,"body":"So basically like you have"},{"startTime":2729.495,"endTime":2732.705,"body":"this software that works to"},{"startTime":2732.705,"endTime":2735.025,"body":"pull all this stuff together"},{"startTime":2732.705,"endTime":2735.025,"body":"for your company, you're"},{"startTime":2735.025,"endTime":2736.85,"body":"using it to internally facing."},{"startTime":2737.15,"endTime":2740.405,"body":"Help you orchestrate your"},{"startTime":2737.15,"endTime":2740.405,"body":"processes with a little"},{"startTime":2740.405,"endTime":2742.655,"body":"bit of like professional"},{"startTime":2740.405,"endTime":2742.655,"body":"developer, like help."},{"startTime":2742.715,"endTime":2743.105,"body":"Yes."},{"startTime":2743.105,"endTime":2744.605,"body":"You could probably take"},{"startTime":2743.105,"endTime":2744.605,"body":"those things and put 'em"},{"startTime":2744.605,"endTime":2746.915,"body":"on the market and sell them"},{"startTime":2744.605,"endTime":2746.915,"body":"to other people, but most"},{"startTime":2746.915,"endTime":2748.385,"body":"people aren't gonna do that."},{"startTime":2748.415,"endTime":2750.515,"body":"Most people are just"},{"startTime":2748.415,"endTime":2750.515,"body":"happy they've solved"},{"startTime":2750.515,"endTime":2751.235,"body":"their own pain point."},{"startTime":2751.235,"endTime":2751.655,"body":"Exactly."},{"startTime":2751.705,"endTime":2754.675,"body":"And that, that's the future"},{"startTime":2751.705,"endTime":2754.675,"body":"that I'm super interested in,"},{"startTime":2754.855,"endTime":2758.005,"body":"especially as a product manager"},{"startTime":2754.855,"endTime":2758.005,"body":"with a ton of experience now"},{"startTime":2758.005,"endTime":2760.995,"body":"where like I can go into any"},{"startTime":2758.005,"endTime":2760.995,"body":"ecosystem and say, what have"},{"startTime":2760.995,"endTime":2764.475,"body":"you guys done to solve your own"},{"startTime":2760.995,"endTime":2764.475,"body":"pain points and how can we think"},{"startTime":2764.475,"endTime":2767.625,"body":"about making that a service that"},{"startTime":2764.475,"endTime":2767.625,"body":"you can sell to other people?"},{"startTime":2767.625,"endTime":2769.605,"body":"'cause there's tons of"},{"startTime":2767.625,"endTime":2769.605,"body":"people that have done"},{"startTime":2769.905,"endTime":2771.28,"body":"strategy pivots Yeah."},{"startTime":2771.635,"endTime":2774.485,"body":"Like AWS started like this"},{"startTime":2771.635,"endTime":2774.485,"body":"actually, now that I'm thinking"},{"startTime":2774.485,"endTime":2776.095,"body":"about it, dealing with compute."},{"startTime":2776.395,"endTime":2779.005,"body":"And paying for it is nonsense."},{"startTime":2779.425,"endTime":2782.485,"body":"We need to develop this and"},{"startTime":2779.425,"endTime":2782.485,"body":"have it ready for anyone"},{"startTime":2782.485,"endTime":2783.805,"body":"inside Amazon to use."},{"startTime":2783.985,"endTime":2785.755,"body":"They developed it, it was good."},{"startTime":2785.855,"endTime":2788.075,"body":"And then they're like,"},{"startTime":2785.855,"endTime":2788.075,"body":"why don't we sell, just"},{"startTime":2788.075,"endTime":2790.595,"body":"share, like timeshares"},{"startTime":2788.075,"endTime":2790.595,"body":"on a, and then they did."},{"startTime":2790.805,"endTime":2792.815,"body":"And now you have modern AWS."},{"startTime":2793.115,"endTime":2796.775,"body":"So like, again, I like"},{"startTime":2793.115,"endTime":2796.775,"body":"this feature, this is cool."},{"startTime":2796.975,"endTime":2799.525,"body":"Open up the tools, democratize"},{"startTime":2796.975,"endTime":2799.525,"body":"the tools, whatever you wanna"},{"startTime":2799.525,"endTime":2800.465,"body":"say I think that's cool."},{"startTime":2800.465,"endTime":2802.735,"body":"The only thing when you broaden"},{"startTime":2800.465,"endTime":2802.735,"body":"it out, , in product management."},{"startTime":2802.795,"endTime":2806.185,"body":"I have a difficult time"},{"startTime":2802.795,"endTime":2806.185,"body":"with the ability to let"},{"startTime":2806.185,"endTime":2808.465,"body":"everybody know the cool"},{"startTime":2806.185,"endTime":2808.465,"body":"stuff you're working on."},{"startTime":2808.465,"endTime":2811.085,"body":"There's an internal"},{"startTime":2808.465,"endTime":2811.085,"body":"marketing aspect that's just"},{"startTime":2811.085,"endTime":2813.605,"body":"internal, that's not even me"},{"startTime":2811.085,"endTime":2813.605,"body":"driving out to the market."},{"startTime":2814.015,"endTime":2816.825,"body":"So what other people would"},{"startTime":2814.015,"endTime":2816.825,"body":"think of as a training"},{"startTime":2816.825,"endTime":2820.635,"body":"knowledge management function"},{"startTime":2816.825,"endTime":2820.635,"body":"gets much harder when a lot"},{"startTime":2820.635,"endTime":2823.065,"body":"of people are participating"},{"startTime":2820.635,"endTime":2823.065,"body":"in product management"},{"startTime":2823.065,"endTime":2823.935,"body":"and software development."},{"startTime":2824.25,"endTime":2825.51,"body":"Right at scale."},{"startTime":2825.57,"endTime":2826.74,"body":"that gets a lot harder."},{"startTime":2827.08,"endTime":2829.28,"body":"that's the only other thing that"},{"startTime":2827.08,"endTime":2829.28,"body":"I'm not saying it's a problem,"},{"startTime":2829.58,"endTime":2830.93,"body":"it is something we can solve."},{"startTime":2830.99,"endTime":2834.29,"body":"And I definitely would"},{"startTime":2830.99,"endTime":2834.29,"body":"take that problem over."},{"startTime":2834.53,"endTime":2835.85,"body":"I can't innovate fast enough."},{"startTime":2835.97,"endTime":2836.48,"body":"Certainly."},{"startTime":2836.53,"endTime":2839.05,"body":"But that's about the only other"},{"startTime":2836.53,"endTime":2839.05,"body":"pushback that I can think of"},{"startTime":2839.38,"endTime":2840.58,"body":"that I would wanna bring up now."},{"startTime":2840.61,"endTime":2842.25,"body":"'cause everything else"},{"startTime":2840.61,"endTime":2842.25,"body":"we kind of talked about."},{"startTime":2842.55,"endTime":2844.5,"body":"It's not the future,"},{"startTime":2842.55,"endTime":2844.5,"body":"it's reality."},{"startTime":2844.56,"endTime":2847.06,"body":"I think that's the main takeaway"},{"startTime":2844.56,"endTime":2847.06,"body":"I got from this conversation."},{"startTime":2847.06,"endTime":2850.17,"body":"And with all the tools"},{"startTime":2847.06,"endTime":2850.17,"body":"available we can build"},{"startTime":2850.17,"endTime":2853.11,"body":"stuff easily for ourselves"},{"startTime":2850.17,"endTime":2853.11,"body":"that's solving our problem."},{"startTime":2853.11,"endTime":2855.48,"body":"And then we can"},{"startTime":2853.11,"endTime":2855.48,"body":"scale or not scale."},{"startTime":2855.78,"endTime":2856.77,"body":"It's up to, it's up to us."},{"startTime":2856.77,"endTime":2857.04,"body":"Right?"},{"startTime":2857.25,"endTime":2857.37,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":2857.55,"endTime":2859.26,"body":"And future is bright."},{"startTime":2859.65,"endTime":2860.52,"body":"We are optimistic."},{"startTime":2860.94,"endTime":2863.58,"body":"We're gonna work less hours, but"},{"startTime":2860.94,"endTime":2863.58,"body":"we're gonna be more efficient"},{"startTime":2863.64,"endTime":2865.8,"body":"for ourselves and we're gonna"},{"startTime":2863.64,"endTime":2865.8,"body":"have more time to enjoy."},{"startTime":2865.91,"endTime":2868.06,"body":"The perks that this"},{"startTime":2865.91,"endTime":2868.06,"body":"world has given to us."},{"startTime":2868.06,"endTime":2871.84,"body":"And I think the future"},{"startTime":2868.06,"endTime":2871.84,"body":"of work is also gonna be"},{"startTime":2871.84,"endTime":2875.11,"body":"great because after all, we"},{"startTime":2871.84,"endTime":2875.11,"body":"cannot automate everything."},{"startTime":2875.47,"endTime":2878.05,"body":"And if we automate everything,"},{"startTime":2875.47,"endTime":2878.05,"body":"what, 7 billion, maybe"},{"startTime":2878.05,"endTime":2880.45,"body":"by that time, 10 billion"},{"startTime":2878.05,"endTime":2880.45,"body":"people will gonna do."},{"startTime":2880.72,"endTime":2884.225,"body":"So that's a, that's a, a rosy"},{"startTime":2880.72,"endTime":2884.225,"body":"picture of the, the future."},{"startTime":2884.275,"endTime":2887.765,"body":"I can't say I disagree with"},{"startTime":2884.275,"endTime":2887.765,"body":"it over overall but it does"},{"startTime":2887.765,"endTime":2890.345,"body":"beg me to ask the question"},{"startTime":2887.765,"endTime":2890.345,"body":"given what you just said."},{"startTime":2890.765,"endTime":2894.845,"body":"Would you say then that"},{"startTime":2890.765,"endTime":2894.845,"body":"AI is a revolution?"},{"startTime":2894.845,"endTime":2896.075,"body":"Or is it an evolution?"},{"startTime":2896.285,"endTime":2897.065,"body":"Evolution, yeah."},{"startTime":2897.335,"endTime":2898.925,"body":"I mean, some people say"},{"startTime":2897.335,"endTime":2898.925,"body":"it's revolution, but"},{"startTime":2898.925,"endTime":2899.945,"body":"it's obviously evolution."},{"startTime":2899.975,"endTime":2900.095,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":2900.395,"endTime":2903.725,"body":"Were the cars evolution or"},{"startTime":2900.395,"endTime":2903.725,"body":"evolution when we start driving?"},{"startTime":2903.755,"endTime":2907.055,"body":"Imagine like telling people"},{"startTime":2903.755,"endTime":2907.055,"body":"like 200 years ago, who's"},{"startTime":2907.055,"endTime":2909.665,"body":"riding a horse like, and it's"},{"startTime":2907.055,"endTime":2909.665,"body":"like you're gonna be driving"},{"startTime":2909.665,"endTime":2913.905,"body":"on, on wheels and it's gonna"},{"startTime":2909.665,"endTime":2913.905,"body":"have gas inside an engine."},{"startTime":2914.205,"endTime":2917.775,"body":"And they're gonna be like, oh"},{"startTime":2914.205,"endTime":2917.775,"body":"my God, what I would, what my"},{"startTime":2917.775,"endTime":2919.635,"body":"taxi park from horses gonna do?"},{"startTime":2919.635,"endTime":2921.18,"body":"You know, I'm gonna"},{"startTime":2919.635,"endTime":2921.18,"body":"lose my business."},{"startTime":2921.24,"endTime":2921.945,"body":"I'd be my horse alone."},{"startTime":2922.005,"endTime":2922.935,"body":"That'd be my question."},{"startTime":2923.235,"endTime":2924.705,"body":"What's my horse"},{"startTime":2923.235,"endTime":2924.705,"body":"business gonna do now?"},{"startTime":2924.815,"endTime":2925.775,"body":"Everything is normal now."},{"startTime":2925.775,"endTime":2927.895,"body":"You know, like there is nothing"},{"startTime":2925.775,"endTime":2927.895,"body":"shocking left in the world."},{"startTime":2928.375,"endTime":2929.365,"body":"Whatever happens."},{"startTime":2929.755,"endTime":2934.465,"body":"Something shockingly absurd"},{"startTime":2929.755,"endTime":2934.465,"body":"or, or some news like we"},{"startTime":2934.465,"endTime":2936.805,"body":"get over it, like we move"},{"startTime":2934.465,"endTime":2936.805,"body":"on and we normalize stuff"},{"startTime":2936.805,"endTime":2937.945,"body":"like really quick now."},{"startTime":2938.025,"endTime":2940.755,"body":"Because the world is"},{"startTime":2938.025,"endTime":2940.755,"body":"moving too fast and."},{"startTime":2941.055,"endTime":2943.755,"body":"We cannot resist it because"},{"startTime":2941.055,"endTime":2943.755,"body":"it's evolution, as I mentioned."},{"startTime":2943.755,"endTime":2947.45,"body":"You know it is just the world"},{"startTime":2943.755,"endTime":2947.45,"body":"has become this and have to"},{"startTime":2947.45,"endTime":2951.23,"body":"deal with it and we have to"},{"startTime":2947.45,"endTime":2951.23,"body":"just understand that we are"},{"startTime":2951.23,"endTime":2954.86,"body":"solving our own problems and"},{"startTime":2951.23,"endTime":2954.86,"body":"whatever surround us, it's"},{"startTime":2954.86,"endTime":2957.98,"body":"just instruments and tools"},{"startTime":2954.86,"endTime":2957.98,"body":"to make our lives better."},{"startTime":2957.98,"endTime":2959.54,"body":"No, dude, I'm saying"},{"startTime":2957.98,"endTime":2959.54,"body":"stop the world."},{"startTime":2959.54,"endTime":2960.17,"body":"I wanna get off."},{"startTime":2960.23,"endTime":2960.71,"body":"Oh, okay."},{"startTime":2960.71,"endTime":2962.1,"body":"Well, no, seriously though."},{"startTime":2962.1,"endTime":2964.41,"body":"I think it is a, it is"},{"startTime":2962.1,"endTime":2964.41,"body":"definitely an evolution."},{"startTime":2964.77,"endTime":2965.88,"body":"This too shall pass."},{"startTime":2965.88,"endTime":2967.89,"body":"So we'll look back in"},{"startTime":2965.88,"endTime":2967.89,"body":"a few years and say."},{"startTime":2968.19,"endTime":2969.36,"body":"What was all the hoopla about?"},{"startTime":2969.57,"endTime":2972.27,"body":"Just like we did when"},{"startTime":2969.57,"endTime":2972.27,"body":"we, computers came about,"},{"startTime":2972.27,"endTime":2973.47,"body":"like laptops especially."},{"startTime":2973.59,"endTime":2976.27,"body":"Now people can move around"},{"startTime":2973.59,"endTime":2976.27,"body":"with computers and there's"},{"startTime":2976.27,"endTime":2978.97,"body":"more power in my watch now"},{"startTime":2976.27,"endTime":2978.97,"body":"than there was in those compact"},{"startTime":2978.97,"endTime":2980.14,"body":"two eight sixes or whatever."},{"startTime":2980.47,"endTime":2982.24,"body":"So, yeah, I mean, we're"},{"startTime":2980.47,"endTime":2982.24,"body":"gonna look back at this,"},{"startTime":2982.24,"endTime":2983.92,"body":"I think, hopefully fondly."},{"startTime":2984.1,"endTime":2984.22,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":2984.22,"endTime":2984.88,"body":"I hope so too."},{"startTime":2985.24,"endTime":2986.41,"body":"Yeah, I'm optimistic."},{"startTime":2986.71,"endTime":2987.31,"body":"Brian is not."},{"startTime":2987.52,"endTime":2988.06,"body":"I'm sold."},{"startTime":2988.06,"endTime":2990.91,"body":"Nah, I mean, , I've come around"},{"startTime":2988.06,"endTime":2990.91,"body":"on the podcast, I started in"},{"startTime":2990.91,"endTime":2994.405,"body":"the opposition phase of of like"},{"startTime":2990.91,"endTime":2994.405,"body":"you need adults in the room."},{"startTime":2994.525,"endTime":2997.235,"body":"The only note I took is"},{"startTime":2994.525,"endTime":2997.235,"body":"asterisk: there are no adults."},{"startTime":2997.235,"endTime":2998.225,"body":"That's what I wrote down."},{"startTime":2998.655,"endTime":3000.815,"body":"That'll be my takeaway of"},{"startTime":2998.655,"endTime":3000.815,"body":"like, there are no adults"},{"startTime":3000.815,"endTime":3001.685,"body":"in the world anymore."},{"startTime":3001.715,"endTime":3003.395,"body":"There are just kids that"},{"startTime":3001.715,"endTime":3003.395,"body":"have stopped learning."},{"startTime":3003.495,"endTime":3005.055,"body":"It's amazing when I tell people."},{"startTime":3005.175,"endTime":3007.485,"body":"I've been around, through"},{"startTime":3005.175,"endTime":3007.485,"body":"like, everything moving to the"},{"startTime":3007.485,"endTime":3008.805,"body":"cloud, you know what I mean?"},{"startTime":3008.805,"endTime":3010.365,"body":"I like, I've been around before."},{"startTime":3010.365,"endTime":3013.905,"body":"AWS was a thing, like Azure in"},{"startTime":3010.365,"endTime":3013.905,"body":"the cloud was a thing, you know?"},{"startTime":3013.985,"endTime":3016.175,"body":"And we survived all that we did."},{"startTime":3016.175,"endTime":3018.065,"body":"And there were just tools."},{"startTime":3018.065,"endTime":3019.415,"body":"There were just different"},{"startTime":3018.065,"endTime":3019.415,"body":"ways of working."},{"startTime":3019.415,"endTime":3021.545,"body":"They weren't actually, our"},{"startTime":3019.415,"endTime":3021.545,"body":"quality of life got better."},{"startTime":3021.995,"endTime":3022.955,"body":"Yeah, that's true though."},{"startTime":3023.105,"endTime":3024.785,"body":"You know, trends"},{"startTime":3023.105,"endTime":3024.785,"body":"will come and pass."},{"startTime":3024.79,"endTime":3027.515,"body":"I, I remember when it was"},{"startTime":3024.79,"endTime":3027.515,"body":"all about centralization and"},{"startTime":3027.515,"endTime":3030.005,"body":"then it was decentralization"},{"startTime":3027.515,"endTime":3030.005,"body":"and then back again now."},{"startTime":3030.01,"endTime":3030.245,"body":"Right, right."},{"startTime":3030.245,"endTime":3031.865,"body":"So trends will come and pass."},{"startTime":3031.955,"endTime":3034.205,"body":"It is just we're trying"},{"startTime":3031.955,"endTime":3034.205,"body":"to make a better life for"},{"startTime":3034.205,"endTime":3035.135,"body":"ourselves, to your point."},{"startTime":3035.135,"endTime":3035.375,"body":"Right?"},{"startTime":3035.435,"endTime":3035.495,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":3035.495,"endTime":3037.425,"body":"And I think overall that's"},{"startTime":3035.495,"endTime":3037.425,"body":"what's gonna happen."},{"startTime":3037.725,"endTime":3037.995,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":3038.045,"endTime":3039.785,"body":"The only thing in this podcast"},{"startTime":3038.045,"endTime":3039.785,"body":"that we talked about that"},{"startTime":3039.785,"endTime":3043.205,"body":"really like scares me is the,"},{"startTime":3039.785,"endTime":3043.205,"body":"because we have this new tool"},{"startTime":3043.205,"endTime":3047.315,"body":"that seems revolutionary to"},{"startTime":3043.205,"endTime":3047.315,"body":"people, like the slow down"},{"startTime":3047.345,"endTime":3050.875,"body":"in hiring juniors and I don't"},{"startTime":3047.345,"endTime":3050.875,"body":"know if I can bring it up as a"},{"startTime":3050.875,"endTime":3053.275,"body":"point to put any blame on ai."},{"startTime":3053.575,"endTime":3055.345,"body":"'cause I think businesses"},{"startTime":3053.575,"endTime":3055.345,"body":"would find another"},{"startTime":3055.345,"endTime":3056.485,"body":"reason to do that anyway."},{"startTime":3056.485,"endTime":3059.02,"body":"So I like, I dunno, maybe"},{"startTime":3056.485,"endTime":3059.02,"body":"we'll have another podcast"},{"startTime":3059.02,"endTime":3061.72,"body":"about like junior folks; people"},{"startTime":3059.02,"endTime":3061.72,"body":"getting their start their"},{"startTime":3061.725,"endTime":3062.62,"body":"first start Starting out."},{"startTime":3062.71,"endTime":3062.89,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":3062.89,"endTime":3063.73,"body":"Start starting out."},{"startTime":3063.76,"endTime":3064.24,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":3064.24,"endTime":3064.241,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":3064.36,"endTime":3067.27,"body":"We, it's harder, but it"},{"startTime":3064.36,"endTime":3067.27,"body":"was even harder before."},{"startTime":3067.27,"endTime":3069.52,"body":"So you'll just like come"},{"startTime":3067.27,"endTime":3069.52,"body":"to the interview and"},{"startTime":3069.52,"endTime":3070.42,"body":"you show your resume."},{"startTime":3070.42,"endTime":3072.46,"body":"It's like, okay, you have a"},{"startTime":3070.42,"endTime":3072.46,"body":"good degree, welcome on board."},{"startTime":3072.49,"endTime":3076.27,"body":"And then people learn stuff"},{"startTime":3072.49,"endTime":3076.27,"body":"and people got jobs, people,"},{"startTime":3076.36,"endTime":3077.92,"body":"some, I mean, let's be honest."},{"startTime":3078.22,"endTime":3081.4,"body":"It and software development"},{"startTime":3078.22,"endTime":3081.4,"body":"and tech, tech field in"},{"startTime":3081.4,"endTime":3082.39,"body":"general, it's not for everyone."},{"startTime":3082.63,"endTime":3085.835,"body":"I've seen people got into"},{"startTime":3082.63,"endTime":3085.835,"body":"it spend their five years"},{"startTime":3086.135,"endTime":3088.99,"body":"hating themselves every day"},{"startTime":3086.135,"endTime":3088.99,"body":"and then eventually ended"},{"startTime":3088.99,"endTime":3090.1,"body":"up exiting from the field."},{"startTime":3090.21,"endTime":3091.08,"body":"So it's not for everyone."},{"startTime":3091.08,"endTime":3093.87,"body":"So junior engineers even"},{"startTime":3091.08,"endTime":3093.87,"body":"though if they're gonna be"},{"startTime":3093.93,"endTime":3095.55,"body":"struggling to get a job."},{"startTime":3095.85,"endTime":3096.54,"body":"It's meant to be."},{"startTime":3096.99,"endTime":3097.14,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":3097.2,"endTime":3100.23,"body":"Maybe it's for good maybe"},{"startTime":3097.2,"endTime":3100.23,"body":"you are good at some things."},{"startTime":3100.65,"endTime":3104.22,"body":"How many times in your career"},{"startTime":3100.65,"endTime":3104.22,"body":"that happened when you had like"},{"startTime":3104.22,"endTime":3106.89,"body":"dream job that you applied, it"},{"startTime":3104.22,"endTime":3106.89,"body":"was like, oh my God, that's my"},{"startTime":3106.89,"endTime":3109.31,"body":"dream job everything's gonna"},{"startTime":3106.89,"endTime":3109.31,"body":"be perfect if I get this job."},{"startTime":3109.61,"endTime":3111.11,"body":"But you didn't get this job."},{"startTime":3111.41,"endTime":3113.57,"body":"And then, but later"},{"startTime":3111.41,"endTime":3113.57,"body":"on you get better job."},{"startTime":3113.575,"endTime":3113.675,"body":"Mm-hmm."},{"startTime":3113.755,"endTime":3113.915,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":3114.14,"endTime":3116.03,"body":"And you're like, oh,"},{"startTime":3114.14,"endTime":3116.03,"body":"thanks God, I didn't make"},{"startTime":3116.03,"endTime":3118.4,"body":"a job, did the job, because"},{"startTime":3116.03,"endTime":3118.4,"body":"otherwise I won't be here."},{"startTime":3118.73,"endTime":3120.59,"body":"So same thing with"},{"startTime":3118.73,"endTime":3120.59,"body":"junior engineers."},{"startTime":3120.89,"endTime":3123.14,"body":"Whoever's meant to be software"},{"startTime":3120.89,"endTime":3123.14,"body":"engineer, they'll survive."},{"startTime":3123.2,"endTime":3125.87,"body":"They'll find jobs, they"},{"startTime":3123.2,"endTime":3125.87,"body":"will flourish and they"},{"startTime":3125.87,"endTime":3126.74,"body":"will be successful."},{"startTime":3127.0,"endTime":3130.27,"body":"If you are software engineer,"},{"startTime":3127.0,"endTime":3130.27,"body":"if you are a student who want"},{"startTime":3130.27,"endTime":3133.01,"body":"to software engineering for"},{"startTime":3130.27,"endTime":3133.01,"body":"money alone, but not for let's"},{"startTime":3133.01,"endTime":3135.62,"body":"say passion, then it's gonna"},{"startTime":3133.01,"endTime":3135.62,"body":"be hard for you, you know?"},{"startTime":3135.83,"endTime":3136.25,"body":"I agree."},{"startTime":3136.25,"endTime":3137.15,"body":"I definitely agree"},{"startTime":3136.25,"endTime":3137.15,"body":"with that one."},{"startTime":3137.52,"endTime":3139.615,"body":"Well, we, like we've gone all"},{"startTime":3137.52,"endTime":3139.615,"body":"around the world but I think"},{"startTime":3139.615,"endTime":3142.195,"body":"we all definitely finished"},{"startTime":3139.615,"endTime":3142.195,"body":"this podcast agreeing that it's"},{"startTime":3142.225,"endTime":3145.105,"body":"another tool like use it to be"},{"startTime":3142.225,"endTime":3145.105,"body":"more effective in the world."},{"startTime":3145.48,"endTime":3146.59,"body":"Use it to make a difference."},{"startTime":3146.98,"endTime":3148.03,"body":"Use it to stand out."},{"startTime":3148.42,"endTime":3150.36,"body":"And if you don't want to"},{"startTime":3148.42,"endTime":3150.36,"body":"use it well, good luck."},{"startTime":3150.76,"endTime":3153.04,"body":"And let us know what you think"},{"startTime":3150.76,"endTime":3153.04,"body":"about this podcast down in the"},{"startTime":3153.04,"endTime":3156.05,"body":"comments below and as well as"},{"startTime":3153.04,"endTime":3156.05,"body":"other ideas that you may have"},{"startTime":3156.05,"endTime":3157.34,"body":"that you'd like us to tackle."},{"startTime":3157.67,"endTime":3158.54,"body":"Thanks for having me, guys."},{"startTime":3158.69,"endTime":3158.85,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":3159.16,"endTime":3159.83,"body":"Thank you for Coming!"}]}