{"version":"1.0.0","segments":[{"startTime":0.0,"endTime":4.319,"body":"What if I told you there was"},{"startTime":0.0,"endTime":4.319,"body":"a new ex new Scrum guide, DLC"},{"startTime":4.379,"endTime":6.05,"body":"that's a new expansion pack."},{"startTime":6.399,"endTime":7.39,"body":"Ooh, tell me more."},{"startTime":7.49,"endTime":11.879,"body":"55 pages, just short of"},{"startTime":7.49,"endTime":11.879,"body":"25,000 words, that claims."},{"startTime":11.879,"endTime":15.349,"body":"The original scrum guide was,"},{"startTime":11.879,"endTime":15.349,"body":"deliberately oversimplified,"},{"startTime":15.739,"endTime":19.214,"body":"and it was done so for"},{"startTime":15.739,"endTime":19.214,"body":"mass adoption and now is"},{"startTime":19.214,"endTime":20.354,"body":"time for the real deal."},{"startTime":20.744,"endTime":21.345,"body":"Nice."},{"startTime":21.345,"endTime":23.744,"body":"Well, it's good to hear"},{"startTime":21.345,"endTime":23.744,"body":"that the new one is."},{"startTime":23.775,"endTime":26.924,"body":"A little more elaborate,"},{"startTime":23.775,"endTime":26.924,"body":"but four times the size"},{"startTime":26.924,"endTime":27.824,"body":"of the previous one."},{"startTime":27.855,"endTime":28.905,"body":"How much would you pay for that?"},{"startTime":28.905,"endTime":30.38,"body":"Would you pay by the word itm?"},{"startTime":30.38,"endTime":31.935,"body":"Trying to, I would"},{"startTime":30.38,"endTime":31.935,"body":"not pay by the word if"},{"startTime":31.935,"endTime":33.564,"body":"there's like 25,000 words."},{"startTime":33.864,"endTime":34.764,"body":"I'm trying to, I'm"},{"startTime":33.864,"endTime":34.764,"body":"trying to pitch you on my"},{"startTime":34.764,"endTime":35.974,"body":"Dickensian scrum guide."},{"startTime":35.995,"endTime":36.084,"body":"Oh yeah, yeah."},{"startTime":36.084,"endTime":37.074,"body":"That's what I'm trying"},{"startTime":36.084,"endTime":37.074,"body":"to pitch you on."},{"startTime":37.264,"endTime":40.365,"body":"But that was a literary"},{"startTime":37.264,"endTime":40.365,"body":"joke for two people."},{"startTime":44.157,"endTime":47.068,"body":"critics mainly LinkedIn"},{"startTime":44.157,"endTime":47.068,"body":"influencers that I've read"},{"startTime":47.157,"endTime":50.217,"body":"will say that it turns the"},{"startTime":47.157,"endTime":50.217,"body":"lightweight scrum framework"},{"startTime":50.437,"endTime":51.367,"body":"into blow wear, basically."},{"startTime":51.367,"endTime":52.292,"body":"Not so lightweight."},{"startTime":52.417,"endTime":54.787,"body":"So we're gonna find out today,"},{"startTime":52.417,"endTime":54.787,"body":"we've parsed the document."},{"startTime":55.042,"endTime":57.022,"body":"We've looked for things"},{"startTime":55.042,"endTime":57.022,"body":"that stick out to us."},{"startTime":57.112,"endTime":59.392,"body":"We're gonna talk about those"},{"startTime":57.112,"endTime":59.392,"body":"today in our normal framework."},{"startTime":59.692,"endTime":61.042,"body":"So there's a new DLC out."},{"startTime":61.072,"endTime":63.052,"body":"We're looking into it today,"},{"startTime":61.072,"endTime":63.052,"body":"and we're gonna find out"},{"startTime":63.052,"endTime":65.482,"body":"that it is it, is it the"},{"startTime":63.052,"endTime":65.482,"body":"scrum guide that we always"},{"startTime":65.482,"endTime":66.772,"body":"needed but didn't deserve?"},{"startTime":66.892,"endTime":68.272,"body":"I always screw up"},{"startTime":66.892,"endTime":68.272,"body":"that Batman line."},{"startTime":68.332,"endTime":68.632,"body":"Sorry."},{"startTime":68.722,"endTime":71.487,"body":"Is it a scrum encyclopedia"},{"startTime":68.722,"endTime":71.487,"body":"instead, or what is it?"},{"startTime":71.577,"endTime":73.457,"body":"or is it destroying"},{"startTime":71.577,"endTime":73.457,"body":"simplicity, right."},{"startTime":73.457,"endTime":74.417,"body":"And is the opposite."},{"startTime":74.517,"endTime":78.087,"body":"We've broken up the guide"},{"startTime":74.517,"endTime":78.087,"body":"into 10 distinct points we're"},{"startTime":78.087,"endTime":80.237,"body":"gonna walk through in no"},{"startTime":78.087,"endTime":80.237,"body":"particular order, like the"},{"startTime":80.597,"endTime":82.547,"body":"right, they're all, they're"},{"startTime":80.597,"endTime":82.547,"body":"all good to talk about."},{"startTime":82.547,"endTime":85.357,"body":"Normally on a podcast, we'll go"},{"startTime":82.547,"endTime":85.357,"body":"through an ordering on this one."},{"startTime":85.357,"endTime":86.347,"body":"They're all good to talk about."},{"startTime":86.347,"endTime":88.267,"body":"So we didn't go through any"},{"startTime":86.347,"endTime":88.267,"body":"kind of ordering exercise"},{"startTime":88.267,"endTime":89.197,"body":"like we normally would."},{"startTime":89.497,"endTime":90.367,"body":"I think that's okay."},{"startTime":90.617,"endTime":91.307,"body":"We're gonna try to."},{"startTime":91.757,"endTime":93.407,"body":"Zip through these"},{"startTime":91.757,"endTime":93.407,"body":"as fast as possible."},{"startTime":93.407,"endTime":96.017,"body":"Hopefully we will contain this"},{"startTime":93.407,"endTime":96.017,"body":"podcast to an hour because"},{"startTime":96.067,"endTime":97.987,"body":"this could be very dry stuff."},{"startTime":98.017,"endTime":101.597,"body":"the first point is"},{"startTime":98.017,"endTime":101.597,"body":"self-managing teams versus"},{"startTime":101.687,"endTime":103.907,"body":"individual self management."},{"startTime":104.297,"endTime":106.937,"body":"So the, the scrum guide"},{"startTime":104.297,"endTime":106.937,"body":"has a distinction between"},{"startTime":106.937,"endTime":108.167,"body":"self-managing scrum teams."},{"startTime":108.527,"endTime":111.227,"body":"They're not to be confused with"},{"startTime":108.527,"endTime":111.227,"body":"individual self-management."},{"startTime":111.227,"endTime":111.437,"body":"Okay."},{"startTime":111.437,"endTime":114.607,"body":"Scrum guide's on the screen"},{"startTime":111.437,"endTime":114.607,"body":"now it says a self-managing"},{"startTime":114.667,"endTime":117.697,"body":"scrum team checks whether"},{"startTime":114.667,"endTime":117.697,"body":"they are on track, takes"},{"startTime":117.697,"endTime":120.277,"body":"actions when they're not on"},{"startTime":117.697,"endTime":120.277,"body":"track, decides how to work"},{"startTime":120.397,"endTime":123.607,"body":"resolves scrum conflict and"},{"startTime":120.397,"endTime":123.607,"body":"fixes, problems with fixes,"},{"startTime":123.607,"endTime":124.987,"body":"problems in the scrum team."},{"startTime":125.287,"endTime":128.317,"body":"That means that , generally"},{"startTime":125.287,"endTime":128.317,"body":"managers, if they're part of"},{"startTime":128.317,"endTime":131.437,"body":"the landscape, do not tell"},{"startTime":128.317,"endTime":131.437,"body":"the Scrum team what to do or"},{"startTime":131.437,"endTime":135.457,"body":"decide which Scrum team member"},{"startTime":131.437,"endTime":135.457,"body":"needs to be taken aside to fix"},{"startTime":135.457,"endTime":136.867,"body":"issues directly or indirectly."},{"startTime":137.227,"endTime":140.227,"body":"If managers exist, it's"},{"startTime":137.227,"endTime":140.227,"body":"generally better They"},{"startTime":140.227,"endTime":141.187,"body":"demonstrate leadership."},{"startTime":141.187,"endTime":141.367,"body":"Okay."},{"startTime":141.367,"endTime":142.477,"body":"None of that is new so far."},{"startTime":142.477,"endTime":143.107,"body":"Let me keep going."},{"startTime":143.477,"endTime":144.257,"body":"Self-managing."},{"startTime":144.257,"endTime":147.287,"body":"Scrum teams organized around"},{"startTime":144.257,"endTime":147.287,"body":"value are critical for"},{"startTime":147.287,"endTime":151.187,"body":"creative problem solving and"},{"startTime":147.287,"endTime":151.187,"body":"capturing emergence reliance"},{"startTime":151.187,"endTime":154.937,"body":"on non self-managing Scrum"},{"startTime":151.187,"endTime":154.937,"body":"teams hinders the ability"},{"startTime":154.937,"endTime":156.347,"body":"to deal with complexity."},{"startTime":156.647,"endTime":157.757,"body":"Did I just read that right?"},{"startTime":157.757,"endTime":158.357,"body":"you did."},{"startTime":158.407,"endTime":161.267,"body":"I think they're talking about"},{"startTime":158.407,"endTime":161.267,"body":"having autonomy at the team"},{"startTime":161.267,"endTime":164.537,"body":"level on what to work on and"},{"startTime":161.267,"endTime":164.537,"body":"of course how to work on it."},{"startTime":164.657,"endTime":167.537,"body":"And this is, again, I"},{"startTime":164.657,"endTime":167.537,"body":"don't feel this is new."},{"startTime":167.597,"endTime":170.967,"body":"Oh, I see, so it's saying"},{"startTime":167.597,"endTime":170.967,"body":"non self-managing scrum team."},{"startTime":170.967,"endTime":172.057,"body":"So if you have non."},{"startTime":172.357,"endTime":174.577,"body":"Self-managing scrum needs that"},{"startTime":172.357,"endTime":174.577,"body":"you're just telling what to do,"},{"startTime":174.847,"endTime":176.737,"body":"then they're not gonna be able"},{"startTime":174.847,"endTime":176.737,"body":"to deal with complex problems."},{"startTime":176.917,"endTime":176.996,"body":"Yeah okay."},{"startTime":177.001,"endTime":177.421,"body":"I understand."},{"startTime":177.471,"endTime":178.136,"body":"Yeah, I agree with you."},{"startTime":178.136,"endTime":178.976,"body":"I don't think this is new."},{"startTime":179.096,"endTime":180.596,"body":"Maybe it wasn't"},{"startTime":179.096,"endTime":180.596,"body":"stated like that."},{"startTime":180.846,"endTime":183.186,"body":"Which also stated like"},{"startTime":180.846,"endTime":183.186,"body":"that I don't know if a"},{"startTime":183.186,"endTime":183.666,"body":"lot, it's not the best."},{"startTime":183.786,"endTime":185.691,"body":"I don't know if a lot of"},{"startTime":183.786,"endTime":185.691,"body":"people are gonna get what"},{"startTime":185.691,"endTime":186.621,"body":"he's trying to Yeah, yeah."},{"startTime":186.651,"endTime":187.671,"body":"Put across the table there."},{"startTime":187.701,"endTime":189.226,"body":"It's not the best"},{"startTime":187.701,"endTime":189.226,"body":"way to, to phrase it."},{"startTime":189.526,"endTime":189.816,"body":"Okay."},{"startTime":189.816,"endTime":192.901,"body":"So, self-managing scrum teams"},{"startTime":189.816,"endTime":192.901,"body":"are not to be confused with"},{"startTime":192.961,"endTime":194.401,"body":"individual self-management."},{"startTime":194.851,"endTime":197.311,"body":"It is the seamless"},{"startTime":194.851,"endTime":197.311,"body":"interplay that allows"},{"startTime":197.311,"endTime":198.721,"body":"a great team to emerge."},{"startTime":198.961,"endTime":202.531,"body":"The facilitation of team"},{"startTime":198.961,"endTime":202.531,"body":"autonomy and more efficient"},{"startTime":202.591,"endTime":206.221,"body":"decision making within a"},{"startTime":202.591,"endTime":206.221,"body":"non-hierarchical structure"},{"startTime":206.521,"endTime":209.191,"body":"could help Scrum teams"},{"startTime":206.521,"endTime":209.191,"body":"improve their self-management."},{"startTime":209.191,"endTime":211.201,"body":"Did I say Dickensian at"},{"startTime":209.191,"endTime":211.201,"body":"the start of this podcast?"},{"startTime":211.206,"endTime":211.682,"body":"You, you did."},{"startTime":211.682,"endTime":215.901,"body":"And listen this paragraph talks"},{"startTime":211.682,"endTime":215.901,"body":"about a term called individual"},{"startTime":215.901,"endTime":219.141,"body":"self-management, but it"},{"startTime":215.901,"endTime":219.141,"body":"doesn't, it's elaborate on that."},{"startTime":219.141,"endTime":219.801,"body":"It just says."},{"startTime":220.206,"endTime":220.476,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":220.476,"endTime":224.796,"body":"This, this is not to be confused"},{"startTime":220.476,"endTime":224.796,"body":"with individual self-management,"},{"startTime":224.826,"endTime":226.596,"body":"but that's the extent of it."},{"startTime":226.596,"endTime":228.906,"body":"It doesn't really elaborate"},{"startTime":226.596,"endTime":228.906,"body":"on it, and I feel like they're"},{"startTime":228.906,"endTime":230.196,"body":"missing a, a trick here."},{"startTime":230.196,"endTime":231.396,"body":"They should, right?"},{"startTime":231.396,"endTime":235.116,"body":"Because individual"},{"startTime":231.396,"endTime":235.116,"body":"self-management is how teams"},{"startTime":235.386,"endTime":237.966,"body":"can flourish as a team, right?"},{"startTime":237.966,"endTime":240.516,"body":"When everybody exhibits"},{"startTime":237.966,"endTime":240.516,"body":"those behaviors of"},{"startTime":240.516,"endTime":241.986,"body":"individual self-management."},{"startTime":241.986,"endTime":242.166,"body":"Alright."},{"startTime":242.196,"endTime":244.566,"body":"There's 13 references in the"},{"startTime":242.196,"endTime":244.566,"body":"document to self-management."},{"startTime":244.566,"endTime":246.126,"body":"Two of them are in the"},{"startTime":244.566,"endTime":246.126,"body":"section we just read."},{"startTime":246.126,"endTime":247.476,"body":"Let's look at what"},{"startTime":246.126,"endTime":247.476,"body":"the other ones are."},{"startTime":247.556,"endTime":250.166,"body":"So he's saying, he's saying"},{"startTime":247.556,"endTime":250.166,"body":"self-managing Scrum teams are"},{"startTime":250.166,"endTime":253.076,"body":"not gonna be confused with"},{"startTime":250.166,"endTime":253.076,"body":"individuals who can self-manage."},{"startTime":253.106,"endTime":255.626,"body":"I'm guessing he's saying that's"},{"startTime":253.106,"endTime":255.626,"body":"different from an individual"},{"startTime":255.626,"endTime":259.496,"body":"who can do complex things by"},{"startTime":255.626,"endTime":259.496,"body":"themselves, but not a whole team"},{"startTime":259.826,"endTime":262.336,"body":"that can do things by themselves"},{"startTime":259.826,"endTime":262.336,"body":"because 'cause our claim here"},{"startTime":262.336,"endTime":265.936,"body":"was the self-managing scrum"},{"startTime":262.336,"endTime":265.936,"body":"teams not be, not to be confused"},{"startTime":265.936,"endTime":267.496,"body":"with individual self-management."},{"startTime":267.797,"endTime":268.127,"body":"Right."},{"startTime":268.367,"endTime":268.607,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":268.657,"endTime":271.027,"body":"I think I'll read a"},{"startTime":268.657,"endTime":271.027,"body":"little bit more into that."},{"startTime":271.127,"endTime":273.767,"body":"Even though, like you said, he"},{"startTime":271.127,"endTime":273.767,"body":"doesn't really specify it, or"},{"startTime":273.767,"endTime":276.317,"body":"they don't, I should say, so"},{"startTime":273.767,"endTime":276.317,"body":"it's three people that were the"},{"startTime":276.317,"endTime":278.447,"body":"authors of this expansion pack."},{"startTime":278.477,"endTime":278.567,"body":"Mm-hmm."},{"startTime":278.897,"endTime":283.287,"body":"So one of the things I read"},{"startTime":278.897,"endTime":283.287,"body":"into it is individuals as"},{"startTime":283.317,"endTime":288.057,"body":"individuals can actually"},{"startTime":283.317,"endTime":288.057,"body":"self-manage and, and, and do"},{"startTime":288.057,"endTime":291.257,"body":"the right thing But when you"},{"startTime":288.057,"endTime":291.257,"body":"have a bunch of them together,"},{"startTime":291.497,"endTime":293.147,"body":"there's some friction there."},{"startTime":293.177,"endTime":295.307,"body":"Because you and I could"},{"startTime":293.177,"endTime":295.307,"body":"be on a team, you say,"},{"startTime":295.307,"endTime":296.447,"body":"we need to do this thing."},{"startTime":296.447,"endTime":297.947,"body":"I say we need to do that thing."},{"startTime":298.247,"endTime":300.677,"body":"How do we reconcile"},{"startTime":298.247,"endTime":300.677,"body":"that as a team?"},{"startTime":300.777,"endTime":302.517,"body":"And they didn't"},{"startTime":300.777,"endTime":302.517,"body":"specify any of this."},{"startTime":302.517,"endTime":304.287,"body":"They didn't actually"},{"startTime":302.517,"endTime":304.287,"body":"go into it in the whole"},{"startTime":304.287,"endTime":305.607,"body":"document that I could find."},{"startTime":305.907,"endTime":308.697,"body":"But I do feel like that is"},{"startTime":305.907,"endTime":308.697,"body":"something that many teams do"},{"startTime":308.697,"endTime":312.187,"body":"struggle with especially when"},{"startTime":308.697,"endTime":312.187,"body":"you have a team that's self"},{"startTime":312.187,"endTime":315.457,"body":"organizing, self-managing,"},{"startTime":312.187,"endTime":315.457,"body":"but you have a tech lead"},{"startTime":315.487,"endTime":318.387,"body":"that is essentially dictating"},{"startTime":315.487,"endTime":318.387,"body":". To the rest of the team."},{"startTime":318.417,"endTime":319.347,"body":"What they should be working on."},{"startTime":319.347,"endTime":321.676,"body":"Because the same thing that"},{"startTime":319.347,"endTime":321.676,"body":"happens with the Scrum team"},{"startTime":321.947,"endTime":325.157,"body":"being dictated things to work"},{"startTime":321.947,"endTime":325.157,"body":"on, happens with individuals."},{"startTime":325.317,"endTime":329.137,"body":"So like I just, I basically"},{"startTime":325.317,"endTime":329.137,"body":"see this statement."},{"startTime":329.437,"endTime":333.097,"body":"I mean, a spoiler alert, there's"},{"startTime":329.437,"endTime":333.097,"body":"a lot of stuff in here that I'm"},{"startTime":333.097,"endTime":336.947,"body":"like, somebody did not get an"},{"startTime":333.097,"endTime":336.947,"body":"editor, or maybe there was an"},{"startTime":336.947,"endTime":339.587,"body":"editor in this document and they"},{"startTime":336.947,"endTime":339.587,"body":"were just like too scared to"},{"startTime":339.587,"endTime":342.477,"body":"suggest like, maybe we should"},{"startTime":339.587,"endTime":342.477,"body":"cut that, because om wrote"},{"startTime":342.477,"endTime":343.827,"body":"that and he's really smart."},{"startTime":343.827,"endTime":345.057,"body":"We shouldn't suggest cutting."},{"startTime":345.072,"endTime":345.282,"body":"Right."},{"startTime":345.282,"endTime":347.292,"body":", I would've cut this out"},{"startTime":345.282,"endTime":347.292,"body":"to be like, listen man,"},{"startTime":347.292,"endTime":348.732,"body":"everyone knows that."},{"startTime":348.732,"endTime":350.742,"body":"Like there are people that"},{"startTime":348.732,"endTime":350.742,"body":"just work by themselves."},{"startTime":350.892,"endTime":351.852,"body":"Scrum doesn't change it."},{"startTime":351.852,"endTime":354.222,"body":"There are some people that"},{"startTime":351.852,"endTime":354.222,"body":"are really smart individual"},{"startTime":354.222,"endTime":356.801,"body":"contributors that go and"},{"startTime":354.222,"endTime":356.801,"body":"do stuff on their own."},{"startTime":356.801,"endTime":359.287,"body":"like I've been on teams where"},{"startTime":356.801,"endTime":359.287,"body":"you have teams and then the"},{"startTime":359.287,"endTime":362.407,"body":"team lead is split across"},{"startTime":359.287,"endTime":362.407,"body":"teams, but the team lead."},{"startTime":362.812,"endTime":364.762,"body":"Is also like the"},{"startTime":362.812,"endTime":364.762,"body":"architect, right?"},{"startTime":364.762,"endTime":366.292,"body":"Or in like larger"},{"startTime":364.762,"endTime":366.292,"body":"organization, we have like"},{"startTime":366.292,"endTime":368.212,"body":"a enterprise architect"},{"startTime":366.292,"endTime":368.212,"body":"or something like that."},{"startTime":368.242,"endTime":368.422,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":368.452,"endTime":370.102,"body":"But maybe they're"},{"startTime":368.452,"endTime":370.102,"body":"actually a good enterprise"},{"startTime":370.102,"endTime":372.022,"body":"architect, meaning they"},{"startTime":370.102,"endTime":372.022,"body":"actually work, right."},{"startTime":372.292,"endTime":374.432,"body":"And don't just come down"},{"startTime":372.292,"endTime":374.432,"body":"from the ivory tower with the"},{"startTime":374.432,"endTime":376.712,"body":"stone tablets of requirements"},{"startTime":374.432,"endTime":376.712,"body":"maybe they're actually a"},{"startTime":376.712,"endTime":380.732,"body":"working individual contributor"},{"startTime":376.712,"endTime":380.732,"body":"and someone who helps with"},{"startTime":380.732,"endTime":381.812,"body":"architectural concerns."},{"startTime":381.932,"endTime":383.342,"body":"Basically integration"},{"startTime":381.932,"endTime":383.342,"body":"across systems."},{"startTime":383.762,"endTime":388.582,"body":"An individual, a single person"},{"startTime":383.762,"endTime":388.582,"body":"is not gonna say, okay my team"},{"startTime":388.582,"endTime":391.462,"body":"is responsible for the video"},{"startTime":388.582,"endTime":391.462,"body":"upload functionality and your"},{"startTime":391.462,"endTime":394.792,"body":"team is responsible for all"},{"startTime":391.462,"endTime":394.792,"body":"the audio functionality, which"},{"startTime":394.792,"endTime":395.902,"body":"has to do with audio upload."},{"startTime":396.022,"endTime":401.002,"body":"But maybe we share a media"},{"startTime":396.022,"endTime":401.002,"body":"upload function, right?"},{"startTime":401.062,"endTime":403.582,"body":"That neither one of"},{"startTime":401.062,"endTime":403.582,"body":"our teams wholly owns."},{"startTime":403.882,"endTime":406.102,"body":"But when we wanna modify"},{"startTime":403.882,"endTime":406.102,"body":"it, we have to get"},{"startTime":406.102,"endTime":407.872,"body":"this additional person."},{"startTime":408.172,"endTime":409.342,"body":"To come in and sit with us."},{"startTime":409.442,"endTime":411.542,"body":"But what this points out"},{"startTime":409.442,"endTime":411.542,"body":"is like, well, you've got"},{"startTime":411.542,"endTime":415.262,"body":"individual contributors who are"},{"startTime":411.542,"endTime":415.262,"body":"motivated to take ownership of"},{"startTime":415.262,"endTime":417.092,"body":"problems, development problems."},{"startTime":417.152,"endTime":417.362,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":417.662,"endTime":420.652,"body":"And it's trying, like I, I,"},{"startTime":417.662,"endTime":420.652,"body":"again, I'm just extrapolating"},{"startTime":420.652,"endTime":422.242,"body":"'cause I just don't think"},{"startTime":420.652,"endTime":422.242,"body":"this is a good listen, we are"},{"startTime":422.242,"endTime":424.822,"body":"all extrapolating 'cause it"},{"startTime":422.242,"endTime":424.822,"body":"doesn't have the detail here."},{"startTime":424.822,"endTime":425.092,"body":"Right."},{"startTime":425.092,"endTime":427.222,"body":"So you have your"},{"startTime":425.092,"endTime":427.222,"body":"own extrapolation."},{"startTime":427.322,"endTime":430.082,"body":"You know, mine is along the same"},{"startTime":427.322,"endTime":430.082,"body":"lines but slightly different"},{"startTime":430.082,"endTime":434.672,"body":"in that he's talking about"},{"startTime":430.082,"endTime":434.672,"body":"individual self-management."},{"startTime":435.032,"endTime":437.882,"body":"Talking about people that are"},{"startTime":435.032,"endTime":437.882,"body":"like the lone wolf developers"},{"startTime":437.882,"endTime":440.681,"body":"saying I'm gonna go work on"},{"startTime":437.882,"endTime":440.681,"body":"this because I think that's"},{"startTime":440.681,"endTime":442.882,"body":"the right thing to do and"},{"startTime":440.681,"endTime":442.882,"body":"I'm an expert at, yeah."},{"startTime":442.882,"endTime":445.462,"body":"So I'm gonna go get it"},{"startTime":442.882,"endTime":445.462,"body":"done 'cause you're pricing"},{"startTime":445.552,"endTime":448.552,"body":"my contribution as, can"},{"startTime":445.552,"endTime":448.552,"body":"he finish or she finish"},{"startTime":448.552,"endTime":449.522,"body":"the work in the sprint."},{"startTime":449.542,"endTime":451.242,"body":"Yeah, I can do this so"},{"startTime":449.542,"endTime":451.242,"body":"you're gonna have that."},{"startTime":451.272,"endTime":452.982,"body":"And when you have"},{"startTime":451.272,"endTime":452.982,"body":"multiples of those on"},{"startTime":452.982,"endTime":456.282,"body":"your team, you basically"},{"startTime":452.982,"endTime":456.282,"body":"have a divergence, right?"},{"startTime":456.287,"endTime":456.327,"body":"Mm-hmm."},{"startTime":456.407,"endTime":457.812,"body":"Of what people are working on."},{"startTime":458.142,"endTime":459.702,"body":"And that doesn't really help."},{"startTime":459.702,"endTime":459.762,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":459.792,"endTime":462.522,"body":"Because you're not working"},{"startTime":459.792,"endTime":462.522,"body":"towards a common product goal."},{"startTime":462.762,"endTime":462.822,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":462.822,"endTime":464.142,"body":"Or sprint goal in this case."},{"startTime":464.172,"endTime":464.282,"body":"Okay."},{"startTime":464.282,"endTime":465.212,"body":"Lemme throw rocks for a second."},{"startTime":465.262,"endTime":469.251,"body":"If I were to rework this"},{"startTime":465.262,"endTime":469.251,"body":"section, what I would do is I"},{"startTime":469.251,"endTime":472.042,"body":"would start with the extreme"},{"startTime":469.251,"endTime":472.042,"body":"ownership version of it."},{"startTime":472.082,"endTime":473.611,"body":"I would start with the"},{"startTime":472.082,"endTime":473.611,"body":"extreme ownership version"},{"startTime":473.611,"endTime":476.457,"body":"of this and point out if"},{"startTime":473.611,"endTime":476.457,"body":"your team is composed of"},{"startTime":476.516,"endTime":479.966,"body":"individuals who cannot take"},{"startTime":476.516,"endTime":479.966,"body":"ownership or who cannot"},{"startTime":479.966,"endTime":481.406,"body":"self-manage their own stuff."},{"startTime":481.796,"endTime":483.656,"body":"And then when they join"},{"startTime":481.796,"endTime":483.656,"body":"a team that's supposed"},{"startTime":483.656,"endTime":486.716,"body":"to be a self-managing"},{"startTime":483.656,"endTime":486.716,"body":"team or a self-organizing"},{"startTime":486.836,"endTime":489.206,"body":"team, self-managing is"},{"startTime":486.836,"endTime":489.206,"body":"the term he's using."},{"startTime":489.206,"endTime":491.706,"body":"So if they can't self-manage"},{"startTime":489.206,"endTime":491.706,"body":"themselves, then when"},{"startTime":491.706,"endTime":493.656,"body":"they're part of a team that"},{"startTime":491.706,"endTime":493.656,"body":"everyone's meant to work"},{"startTime":493.656,"endTime":496.656,"body":"together and self-manage"},{"startTime":493.656,"endTime":496.656,"body":"as a unit, as a group."},{"startTime":496.956,"endTime":499.146,"body":"How are they gonna"},{"startTime":496.956,"endTime":499.146,"body":"contribute to that?"},{"startTime":499.276,"endTime":501.676,"body":"I would've used this as a"},{"startTime":499.276,"endTime":501.676,"body":"stepping stone to say at"},{"startTime":501.676,"endTime":504.256,"body":"first, let's make sure people"},{"startTime":501.676,"endTime":504.256,"body":"can self-organize themselves,"},{"startTime":504.256,"endTime":507.106,"body":"self-manage themselves,"},{"startTime":504.256,"endTime":507.106,"body":"and then when they're part"},{"startTime":507.106,"endTime":511.206,"body":"of a larger body of folks"},{"startTime":507.106,"endTime":511.206,"body":"working on a shared problem,"},{"startTime":511.576,"endTime":512.296,"body":"it's a different problem."},{"startTime":512.296,"endTime":514.656,"body":"Like, you can motivate and"},{"startTime":512.296,"endTime":514.656,"body":"you can figure out how to"},{"startTime":514.656,"endTime":516.786,"body":"take ownership of a problem"},{"startTime":514.656,"endTime":516.786,"body":"and drive it to resolution."},{"startTime":517.086,"endTime":520.056,"body":"And now you have to do that"},{"startTime":517.086,"endTime":520.056,"body":"and also communicate with"},{"startTime":520.056,"endTime":523.446,"body":"the people to your left and"},{"startTime":520.056,"endTime":523.446,"body":"right, every step of the way."},{"startTime":523.476,"endTime":523.536,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":523.726,"endTime":526.606,"body":"but it's a building block on"},{"startTime":523.726,"endTime":526.606,"body":"top of a smaller skill that"},{"startTime":526.606,"endTime":527.896,"body":"I think is easier to master."},{"startTime":528.046,"endTime":531.436,"body":"Hey, first, master this one"},{"startTime":528.046,"endTime":531.436,"body":"thing, pick a problem, get"},{"startTime":531.436,"endTime":532.546,"body":"as much help as you need."},{"startTime":532.696,"endTime":534.836,"body":"We're not saying you have to"},{"startTime":532.696,"endTime":534.836,"body":"solve the problem alone, Let's"},{"startTime":534.836,"endTime":537.236,"body":"take that first step first, and"},{"startTime":534.836,"endTime":537.236,"body":"then the next step above that"},{"startTime":537.236,"endTime":541.046,"body":"is like, okay, now let's work"},{"startTime":537.236,"endTime":541.046,"body":"on helping your buddy to your"},{"startTime":541.046,"endTime":543.026,"body":"left and your right, they're"},{"startTime":541.046,"endTime":543.026,"body":"helping you or your problem."},{"startTime":543.326,"endTime":545.576,"body":"Now we all help every each"},{"startTime":543.326,"endTime":545.576,"body":"other with all of our problems."},{"startTime":545.576,"endTime":548.516,"body":"Now we have a path"},{"startTime":545.576,"endTime":548.516,"body":"towards self-organization."},{"startTime":548.636,"endTime":550.226,"body":"Whereas like if I just"},{"startTime":548.636,"endTime":550.226,"body":"take the section, I'm"},{"startTime":550.226,"endTime":551.726,"body":"like, okay, that's cool."},{"startTime":551.726,"endTime":552.356,"body":"We should do that."},{"startTime":552.356,"endTime":553.016,"body":"I believe you."},{"startTime":553.316,"endTime":553.886,"body":"How?"},{"startTime":554.276,"endTime":554.606,"body":"Right?"},{"startTime":554.906,"endTime":556.006,"body":"Yeah draw me a roadmap."},{"startTime":556.006,"endTime":557.506,"body":"'cause my team doesn't"},{"startTime":556.006,"endTime":557.506,"body":"know how to do that."},{"startTime":557.506,"endTime":560.326,"body":"I have a bunch of junior"},{"startTime":557.506,"endTime":560.326,"body":"developers or a bunch of people"},{"startTime":560.326,"endTime":563.476,"body":"who call themselves developers,"},{"startTime":560.326,"endTime":563.476,"body":"but really are just marketers"},{"startTime":563.656,"endTime":565.246,"body":"who are using the AI tool."},{"startTime":566.296,"endTime":569.836,"body":"Sorry, I got, oh, that"},{"startTime":566.296,"endTime":569.836,"body":"one hits close to home."},{"startTime":569.836,"endTime":570.501,"body":"I was like, oh my goodness."},{"startTime":570.591,"endTime":572.781,"body":"Oh, I've got a real team who"},{"startTime":570.591,"endTime":572.781,"body":"doesn't know how to do this."},{"startTime":572.841,"endTime":572.961,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":572.991,"endTime":574.041,"body":"They're learning"},{"startTime":572.991,"endTime":574.041,"body":"for the first time."},{"startTime":574.341,"endTime":574.611,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":574.666,"endTime":578.416,"body":"I think underneath all of that"},{"startTime":574.666,"endTime":578.416,"body":"is the ethos that if you have"},{"startTime":578.416,"endTime":581.636,"body":"individual contributors that"},{"startTime":578.416,"endTime":581.636,"body":"are just basically doing their"},{"startTime":581.636,"endTime":584.176,"body":"own thing what you don't have"},{"startTime":581.636,"endTime":584.176,"body":"or, or not, because they might"},{"startTime":584.176,"endTime":585.316,"body":"not feel empowered to act."},{"startTime":585.466,"endTime":586.396,"body":"Well there's that too."},{"startTime":586.396,"endTime":587.446,"body":"So there, there's."},{"startTime":587.746,"endTime":588.046,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":588.076,"endTime":589.546,"body":"So that, that's part"},{"startTime":588.076,"endTime":589.546,"body":"of that first step."},{"startTime":589.546,"endTime":592.066,"body":"The first step is like, hey,"},{"startTime":589.546,"endTime":592.066,"body":"take ownership of it is like,"},{"startTime":592.066,"endTime":593.266,"body":"Hey, you own the whole thing."},{"startTime":593.296,"endTime":593.446,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":593.446,"endTime":595.246,"body":"And that goes back to the"},{"startTime":593.446,"endTime":595.246,"body":"extreme ownership that"},{"startTime":595.246,"endTime":595.816,"body":"you mentioned, right?"},{"startTime":595.816,"endTime":595.976,"body":"yeah."},{"startTime":595.981,"endTime":596.421,"body":"Absolutely."},{"startTime":596.671,"endTime":598.861,"body":"Well, we do have people"},{"startTime":596.671,"endTime":598.861,"body":"that are doing their own"},{"startTime":598.861,"endTime":601.531,"body":"thing 'cause they believe"},{"startTime":598.861,"endTime":601.531,"body":"it's the right thing to do."},{"startTime":601.981,"endTime":605.671,"body":"Not only do you have this"},{"startTime":601.981,"endTime":605.671,"body":"kind of diversity of thought"},{"startTime":605.671,"endTime":607.231,"body":"and what the goal really is."},{"startTime":607.236,"endTime":608.676,"body":"it becomes obfuscated."},{"startTime":608.776,"endTime":610.126,"body":"What goal are we"},{"startTime":608.776,"endTime":610.126,"body":"marching toward?"},{"startTime":610.531,"endTime":613.831,"body":"But you also have this idea"},{"startTime":610.531,"endTime":613.831,"body":"where people are gonna look"},{"startTime":613.831,"endTime":616.261,"body":"at other people that are"},{"startTime":613.831,"endTime":616.261,"body":"stronger personalities."},{"startTime":616.311,"endTime":618.081,"body":"And say they're doing"},{"startTime":616.311,"endTime":618.081,"body":"their own thing."},{"startTime":618.081,"endTime":620.211,"body":"This is obviously"},{"startTime":618.081,"endTime":620.211,"body":"what's expected of us."},{"startTime":620.261,"endTime":622.151,"body":"And they'll hide behind"},{"startTime":620.261,"endTime":622.151,"body":"that and say, well, the"},{"startTime":622.151,"endTime":624.551,"body":"team's doing this, so I'm"},{"startTime":622.151,"endTime":624.551,"body":"just doing my own thing."},{"startTime":624.606,"endTime":627.696,"body":"I'm just refactoring the library"},{"startTime":624.606,"endTime":627.696,"body":"code or whatever it might be."},{"startTime":627.936,"endTime":629.686,"body":"So this is really"},{"startTime":627.936,"endTime":629.686,"body":"not a good thing."},{"startTime":629.741,"endTime":632.411,"body":"I think coming back to"},{"startTime":629.741,"endTime":632.411,"body":"the whole point that they"},{"startTime":632.592,"endTime":636.251,"body":"mentioned here, they say"},{"startTime":632.592,"endTime":636.251,"body":"self-managing, but they don't"},{"startTime":636.251,"endTime":639.731,"body":"have any tips on how to improve"},{"startTime":636.251,"endTime":639.731,"body":"individual self-management."},{"startTime":639.792,"endTime":639.971,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":640.272,"endTime":642.972,"body":"They do have references,"},{"startTime":640.272,"endTime":642.972,"body":"however, right."},{"startTime":643.082,"endTime":646.443,"body":"Of the hundreds that point to"},{"startTime":643.082,"endTime":646.443,"body":"in research papers perhaps yeah."},{"startTime":646.832,"endTime":650.452,"body":"And I think the casual reader"},{"startTime":646.832,"endTime":650.452,"body":"who's interested in following"},{"startTime":650.452,"endTime":654.442,"body":"the expansion pack will be"},{"startTime":650.452,"endTime":654.442,"body":"hard pressed to get the value"},{"startTime":654.442,"endTime":655.882,"body":"out of this specific topic."},{"startTime":655.882,"endTime":658.252,"body":"let's move on to the next"},{"startTime":655.882,"endTime":658.252,"body":"category, which is the"},{"startTime":658.252,"endTime":660.682,"body":"definition of outcome done."},{"startTime":660.982,"endTime":662.602,"body":"Definition of outcome done."},{"startTime":662.902,"endTime":665.462,"body":"And I think the point"},{"startTime":662.902,"endTime":665.462,"body":"here is measuring value"},{"startTime":665.462,"endTime":666.782,"body":"versus measuring output."},{"startTime":666.782,"endTime":668.492,"body":"I think that's what he's"},{"startTime":666.782,"endTime":668.492,"body":"trying to get across."},{"startTime":668.492,"endTime":669.272,"body":"I think you've nailed it."},{"startTime":669.272,"endTime":672.512,"body":"So traditional measures of"},{"startTime":669.272,"endTime":672.512,"body":"definition of done are really"},{"startTime":672.512,"endTime":675.452,"body":"talking about the number of"},{"startTime":672.512,"endTime":675.452,"body":"items you get to done right."},{"startTime":675.812,"endTime":678.392,"body":"And this is going a little"},{"startTime":675.812,"endTime":678.392,"body":"bit beyond that saying."},{"startTime":678.707,"endTime":681.437,"body":"Really it's about the outcome"},{"startTime":678.707,"endTime":681.437,"body":"delivered rather than the"},{"startTime":681.437,"endTime":684.767,"body":"number of features delivered"},{"startTime":681.437,"endTime":684.767,"body":"into an environment production"},{"startTime":684.767,"endTime":685.577,"body":"or whatever it might be."},{"startTime":685.917,"endTime":687.987,"body":"That's where the"},{"startTime":685.917,"endTime":687.987,"body":"distinction is drawn here."},{"startTime":688.417,"endTime":691.447,"body":"I think a lot of it boils"},{"startTime":688.417,"endTime":691.447,"body":"down to what is your goal?"},{"startTime":691.747,"endTime":693.787,"body":"Is your goal let's say"},{"startTime":691.747,"endTime":693.787,"body":"you're sprinting and"},{"startTime":693.787,"endTime":694.837,"body":"what is your sprint goal?"},{"startTime":694.957,"endTime":696.967,"body":"Is your sprint goal to"},{"startTime":694.957,"endTime":696.967,"body":"finish all these features?"},{"startTime":696.967,"endTime":698.857,"body":"I can't tell you the number"},{"startTime":696.967,"endTime":698.857,"body":"of times I've seen teams"},{"startTime":698.857,"endTime":702.157,"body":"just simply list a collection"},{"startTime":698.857,"endTime":702.157,"body":"of features or stories that"},{"startTime":702.157,"endTime":704.167,"body":"they've committed to in"},{"startTime":702.157,"endTime":704.167,"body":"the sprint and say, this"},{"startTime":704.167,"endTime":706.967,"body":"is our goal and they're"},{"startTime":704.167,"endTime":706.967,"body":"completely missing the point."},{"startTime":707.177,"endTime":708.947,"body":"This is typically what"},{"startTime":707.177,"endTime":708.947,"body":"we have a weak product"},{"startTime":708.947,"endTime":710.417,"body":"person in, in, in the team."},{"startTime":710.837,"endTime":711.107,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":711.257,"endTime":713.357,"body":"They don't really"},{"startTime":711.257,"endTime":713.357,"body":"lead with a goal."},{"startTime":713.727,"endTime":717.207,"body":"So it's often when you see"},{"startTime":713.727,"endTime":717.207,"body":"this, it's always back to"},{"startTime":717.207,"endTime":720.687,"body":"front, meaning the team"},{"startTime":717.207,"endTime":720.687,"body":"commits to a bunch of user"},{"startTime":720.687,"endTime":724.137,"body":"stories, pbis, whatever it is,"},{"startTime":720.687,"endTime":724.137,"body":"and somebody looks at those"},{"startTime":724.137,"endTime":727.227,"body":"collectively and says, what's a"},{"startTime":724.137,"endTime":727.227,"body":"holistic description of those?"},{"startTime":727.527,"endTime":728.667,"body":"And that's our goal."},{"startTime":728.722,"endTime":729.592,"body":"That's back to front."},{"startTime":729.832,"endTime":732.742,"body":"It should start with the"},{"startTime":729.832,"endTime":732.742,"body":"goal, and the question is"},{"startTime":732.742,"endTime":735.802,"body":"asked, what do we need to"},{"startTime":732.742,"endTime":735.802,"body":"do to achieve this goal?"},{"startTime":735.832,"endTime":738.952,"body":"If this goal is too lofty, so"},{"startTime":735.832,"endTime":738.952,"body":"we can't deliver it in a sprint,"},{"startTime":739.192,"endTime":742.762,"body":"let's break it down and that's"},{"startTime":739.192,"endTime":742.762,"body":"on the product owner to do that."},{"startTime":742.762,"endTime":745.402,"body":"And oftentimes I see weak"},{"startTime":742.762,"endTime":745.402,"body":"product ownership where"},{"startTime":745.402,"endTime":746.182,"body":"this doesn't happen."},{"startTime":746.327,"endTime":749.447,"body":"so the commitment definition"},{"startTime":746.327,"endTime":749.447,"body":"of outcome done, let's see."},{"startTime":749.507,"endTime":753.857,"body":"It's, so, are there any"},{"startTime":749.507,"endTime":753.857,"body":"more definition of output?"},{"startTime":753.947,"endTime":754.697,"body":"Done?"},{"startTime":754.712,"endTime":756.812,"body":"The definition of outcome done."},{"startTime":756.812,"endTime":759.602,"body":"So there's two definitions"},{"startTime":756.812,"endTime":759.602,"body":"of done in here."},{"startTime":759.692,"endTime":760.292,"body":"Oh boy."},{"startTime":760.592,"endTime":761.042,"body":"Oh boy."},{"startTime":761.042,"endTime":764.252,"body":"There's a definition of"},{"startTime":761.042,"endTime":764.252,"body":"outcome done, and down here"},{"startTime":764.402,"endTime":766.742,"body":"under the increment is the"},{"startTime":764.402,"endTime":766.742,"body":"definition of output done."},{"startTime":766.922,"endTime":768.572,"body":"Let's read the"},{"startTime":766.922,"endTime":768.572,"body":"definition of output."},{"startTime":768.572,"endTime":768.902,"body":"Done."},{"startTime":769.172,"endTime":771.182,"body":"Definition of output"},{"startTime":769.172,"endTime":771.182,"body":"done every time."},{"startTime":771.182,"endTime":773.672,"body":"I said it 15 times and now"},{"startTime":771.182,"endTime":773.672,"body":"it means, has no meaning."},{"startTime":774.062,"endTime":776.312,"body":"The definition of output"},{"startTime":774.062,"endTime":776.312,"body":"done is a commitment."},{"startTime":776.402,"endTime":779.522,"body":"It formally describes"},{"startTime":776.402,"endTime":779.522,"body":"the quality measures that"},{"startTime":779.522,"endTime":782.642,"body":"express due diligence for"},{"startTime":779.522,"endTime":782.642,"body":"the increment, so it could"},{"startTime":782.642,"endTime":784.292,"body":"be delivered to stakeholders."},{"startTime":784.352,"endTime":784.562,"body":"Woo."},{"startTime":785.192,"endTime":785.642,"body":"Boy."},{"startTime":785.732,"endTime":786.602,"body":"I'm gonna keep going."},{"startTime":786.912,"endTime":787.692,"body":"I see your face."},{"startTime":787.692,"endTime":789.162,"body":"I'm gonna keep, I see it"},{"startTime":787.692,"endTime":789.162,"body":"outta the corner of my eye."},{"startTime":789.162,"endTime":789.222,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":789.372,"endTime":790.027,"body":"Ignore me for a bit."},{"startTime":790.027,"endTime":790.347,"body":"I'm gonna keep going."},{"startTime":790.347,"endTime":790.707,"body":"Yeah, yeah, yeah."},{"startTime":790.902,"endTime":793.092,"body":"The definition of output"},{"startTime":790.902,"endTime":793.092,"body":"done typically includes"},{"startTime":793.122,"endTime":795.402,"body":"but is not limited to"},{"startTime":793.122,"endTime":795.402,"body":"both technical standards."},{"startTime":795.402,"endTime":797.802,"body":"And this is how I know the"},{"startTime":795.402,"endTime":797.802,"body":"document was not edited"},{"startTime":797.982,"endTime":799.242,"body":"this, but not limited to."},{"startTime":799.297,"endTime":801.517,"body":"Both technical standards"},{"startTime":799.297,"endTime":801.517,"body":"and product qualities."},{"startTime":801.517,"endTime":802.357,"body":"It scrum team."},{"startTime":802.712,"endTime":806.012,"body":"Creates, if not provided by"},{"startTime":802.712,"endTime":806.012,"body":"the organization as a minimum."},{"startTime":806.012,"endTime":808.052,"body":"There's multiple scrum"},{"startTime":806.012,"endTime":808.052,"body":"teams of the same product."},{"startTime":808.052,"endTime":810.382,"body":"They share, the same"},{"startTime":808.052,"endTime":810.382,"body":"definition of output done."},{"startTime":810.482,"endTime":813.692,"body":"So this is the definition of"},{"startTime":810.482,"endTime":813.692,"body":"done now in the future, which"},{"startTime":813.692,"endTime":815.762,"body":"is different than the previous"},{"startTime":813.692,"endTime":815.762,"body":"definition, which is the"},{"startTime":815.762,"endTime":818.132,"body":"definition of outcome done."},{"startTime":818.282,"endTime":820.652,"body":"Definition of outcome"},{"startTime":818.282,"endTime":820.652,"body":"done is a commitment."},{"startTime":820.892,"endTime":824.952,"body":"It describes the observable"},{"startTime":820.892,"endTime":824.952,"body":"evidence, measures quantitative,"},{"startTime":825.012,"endTime":827.892,"body":"or qualitative required"},{"startTime":825.012,"endTime":827.892,"body":"to demonstrate realized"},{"startTime":827.892,"endTime":830.832,"body":"benefit, often referred"},{"startTime":827.892,"endTime":830.832,"body":"to as value validation."},{"startTime":831.162,"endTime":832.602,"body":"Okay, I'm with them on this one."},{"startTime":833.012,"endTime":834.902,"body":"I mean this whole thing could"},{"startTime":833.012,"endTime":834.902,"body":"have been three sentences."},{"startTime":835.052,"endTime":835.172,"body":"Sure."},{"startTime":835.242,"endTime":836.862,"body":"It could be for the"},{"startTime":835.242,"endTime":836.862,"body":"overall product."},{"startTime":837.162,"endTime":838.332,"body":"Or a specific goal."},{"startTime":838.332,"endTime":840.852,"body":"It's often best to define"},{"startTime":838.332,"endTime":840.852,"body":"the measures of value"},{"startTime":841.002,"endTime":844.122,"body":"validation before realization"},{"startTime":841.002,"endTime":844.122,"body":"starts, starts that."},{"startTime":844.122,"endTime":845.052,"body":"Does that mean development?"},{"startTime":845.172,"endTime":845.352,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":845.502,"endTime":847.992,"body":"Well, no, that means actual"},{"startTime":845.502,"endTime":847.992,"body":"delivery to the customer."},{"startTime":848.022,"endTime":848.502,"body":"Okay."},{"startTime":848.802,"endTime":851.742,"body":"Outcomes and related"},{"startTime":848.802,"endTime":851.742,"body":"interpretations and form future"},{"startTime":851.742,"endTime":856.092,"body":"adaptations ideally confirming"},{"startTime":851.742,"endTime":856.092,"body":"the intended stakeholder impact."},{"startTime":856.572,"endTime":856.902,"body":"Okay."},{"startTime":857.102,"endTime":860.102,"body":"Favor, direct evidence over"},{"startTime":857.102,"endTime":860.102,"body":"circum circumstantial evidence."},{"startTime":860.102,"endTime":862.982,"body":"For example, customer outcomes"},{"startTime":860.102,"endTime":862.982,"body":"could focus on delivering"},{"startTime":863.072,"endTime":866.102,"body":"measurable value to customers"},{"startTime":863.072,"endTime":866.102,"body":"such as increased customer"},{"startTime":866.102,"endTime":870.152,"body":"satisfaction, customer long-term"},{"startTime":866.102,"endTime":870.152,"body":"cost reduction, or the number"},{"startTime":870.152,"endTime":871.862,"body":"of customer jobs addressed."},{"startTime":872.162,"endTime":874.202,"body":"Product stakeholder"},{"startTime":872.162,"endTime":874.202,"body":"outcomes could connect"},{"startTime":874.202,"endTime":877.382,"body":"these behavioral changes to"},{"startTime":874.202,"endTime":877.382,"body":"product performance metrics,"},{"startTime":877.812,"endTime":879.072,"body":"business stakeholder outcomes."},{"startTime":879.122,"endTime":881.522,"body":"Compliance business,"},{"startTime":879.122,"endTime":881.522,"body":"long-term risk reduction."},{"startTime":881.662,"endTime":883.912,"body":"Risk re scrum team"},{"startTime":881.662,"endTime":883.912,"body":"outcomes such as improved"},{"startTime":883.912,"endTime":884.932,"body":"technical capability."},{"startTime":885.022,"endTime":885.412,"body":"Okay."},{"startTime":885.712,"endTime":888.592,"body":"User experience, UX or"},{"startTime":885.712,"endTime":888.592,"body":"customer experience, CX"},{"startTime":888.862,"endTime":892.192,"body":"debt is the sum of design"},{"startTime":888.862,"endTime":892.192,"body":"and implementation choices."},{"startTime":892.402,"endTime":895.792,"body":"Intentional or not, that make"},{"startTime":892.402,"endTime":895.792,"body":"a product or service less"},{"startTime":895.792,"endTime":897.382,"body":"usable, enjoyable, or effective."},{"startTime":897.472,"endTime":897.772,"body":"Okay."},{"startTime":897.822,"endTime":899.922,"body":"That's, that's, that"},{"startTime":897.822,"endTime":899.922,"body":"is what, that is."},{"startTime":900.162,"endTime":902.352,"body":"The, but that's just a"},{"startTime":900.162,"endTime":902.352,"body":"textbook definition of it."},{"startTime":902.562,"endTime":904.932,"body":"Recognizing, tracking, or"},{"startTime":902.562,"endTime":904.932,"body":"addressing the debt is essential"},{"startTime":905.112,"endTime":907.962,"body":"for delivering products that"},{"startTime":905.112,"endTime":907.962,"body":"truly meet the user needs."},{"startTime":908.062,"endTime":910.222,"body":"I mean, I agree with"},{"startTime":908.062,"endTime":910.222,"body":"those statements, but"},{"startTime":910.222,"endTime":911.212,"body":"those are just statements."},{"startTime":911.217,"endTime":911.927,"body":"They are just statements."},{"startTime":911.942,"endTime":914.582,"body":"That description you"},{"startTime":911.942,"endTime":914.582,"body":"just read isn't all that"},{"startTime":914.582,"endTime":916.742,"body":"different than what was in"},{"startTime":914.582,"endTime":916.742,"body":"the original scrum guide."},{"startTime":916.742,"endTime":917.642,"body":"Definition of done."},{"startTime":917.942,"endTime":921.872,"body":"I feel like they've added a"},{"startTime":917.942,"endTime":921.872,"body":"phrase there that kind of raises"},{"startTime":921.872,"endTime":923.282,"body":"eyebrows, at least for me."},{"startTime":923.672,"endTime":923.972,"body":"Right."},{"startTime":923.972,"endTime":926.192,"body":"Psychological flow"},{"startTime":923.972,"endTime":926.192,"body":"or whatever it was."},{"startTime":926.192,"endTime":928.352,"body":"Because you go back to"},{"startTime":926.192,"endTime":928.352,"body":"that, you'll see, I don't"},{"startTime":928.352,"endTime":930.992,"body":"know what that even means"},{"startTime":928.352,"endTime":930.992,"body":"in that last bullet."},{"startTime":931.022,"endTime":934.232,"body":"See, scrum team outcomes"},{"startTime":931.022,"endTime":934.232,"body":"as such as improved"},{"startTime":934.232,"endTime":935.492,"body":"technical capability."},{"startTime":935.822,"endTime":937.412,"body":"Psychological flow."},{"startTime":937.502,"endTime":938.107,"body":"Wait, wait, wait."},{"startTime":938.162,"endTime":941.772,"body":"Oh, for example, scrum team"},{"startTime":938.162,"endTime":941.772,"body":"outcomes such as improved"},{"startTime":941.772,"endTime":942.852,"body":"technical capability."},{"startTime":943.062,"endTime":945.582,"body":"Psychological flow,"},{"startTime":943.062,"endTime":945.582,"body":"that's a reference 70."},{"startTime":945.582,"endTime":948.162,"body":"Let's go find out"},{"startTime":945.582,"endTime":948.162,"body":"what 70 is The flow."},{"startTime":948.492,"endTime":952.482,"body":"Flow, the psychology of optimal"},{"startTime":948.492,"endTime":952.482,"body":"experience . harper and Roe."},{"startTime":952.662,"endTime":954.462,"body":"It is nine pages."},{"startTime":954.732,"endTime":955.002,"body":"Mm-hmm."},{"startTime":955.302,"endTime":958.182,"body":"Is there like a summary"},{"startTime":955.302,"endTime":958.182,"body":"or This is the summary."},{"startTime":958.662,"endTime":959.292,"body":"This fascinating."},{"startTime":959.292,"endTime":961.032,"body":"Book's all about happiness"},{"startTime":959.292,"endTime":961.032,"body":"and how to find it."},{"startTime":961.402,"endTime":963.472,"body":"Building Inner Harmony."},{"startTime":963.772,"endTime":966.442,"body":"Our level of happiness"},{"startTime":963.772,"endTime":966.442,"body":"ultimately depends on how our"},{"startTime":966.442,"endTime":969.052,"body":"mind filters and interprets"},{"startTime":966.442,"endTime":969.052,"body":"everyday experiences."},{"startTime":969.352,"endTime":969.592,"body":"Okay."},{"startTime":969.592,"endTime":971.086,"body":"So look, I already got it."},{"startTime":971.146,"endTime":972.766,"body":"I like it's CX basically."},{"startTime":972.816,"endTime":973.506,"body":"I already got it."},{"startTime":973.556,"endTime":975.446,"body":"and, but this is inward"},{"startTime":973.556,"endTime":975.446,"body":"focus to the team."},{"startTime":975.746,"endTime":978.081,"body":"Absolutely, so we're reading"},{"startTime":975.746,"endTime":978.081,"body":"this paper , let me show"},{"startTime":978.081,"endTime":980.791,"body":"everyone that we're reading"},{"startTime":978.081,"endTime":980.791,"body":"this., We've downloaded this"},{"startTime":980.821,"endTime":983.771,"body":"I think it's a book, but"},{"startTime":980.821,"endTime":983.771,"body":"maybe this is the, paper."},{"startTime":983.771,"endTime":985.811,"body":"This fascinating book is"},{"startTime":983.771,"endTime":985.811,"body":"all about happiness and"},{"startTime":985.811,"endTime":988.311,"body":"where to find it I think"},{"startTime":985.811,"endTime":988.311,"body":"he's talking about, this"},{"startTime":988.311,"endTime":990.531,"body":"book flow, the Psychology"},{"startTime":988.311,"endTime":990.531,"body":"of Optimal Experience."},{"startTime":990.681,"endTime":994.191,"body":"But the reference is to"},{"startTime":990.681,"endTime":994.191,"body":"this paper about the book?"},{"startTime":994.251,"endTime":994.521,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":994.731,"endTime":995.061,"body":"Okay."},{"startTime":995.361,"endTime":997.721,"body":"So as you know, on the"},{"startTime":995.361,"endTime":997.721,"body":"podcast, we will go and"},{"startTime":997.721,"endTime":1000.931,"body":"research the entire book and"},{"startTime":997.721,"endTime":1000.931,"body":"the author find their house,"},{"startTime":1000.931,"endTime":1003.061,"body":"live there for a week, and"},{"startTime":1000.931,"endTime":1003.061,"body":"then do a podcast about it."},{"startTime":1003.061,"endTime":1005.521,"body":"That makes a lot of sense to me"},{"startTime":1003.061,"endTime":1005.521,"body":"because the, this last bullet"},{"startTime":1005.521,"endTime":1009.451,"body":"point, scrum, scrum teams out,"},{"startTime":1005.521,"endTime":1009.451,"body":"scrum team outcomes such as"},{"startTime":1009.451,"endTime":1014.191,"body":"improved technical capability,"},{"startTime":1009.451,"endTime":1014.191,"body":"tech, debt, ux or cx."},{"startTime":1014.641,"endTime":1016.496,"body":"Like Yeah, of course"},{"startTime":1014.641,"endTime":1016.496,"body":"you would reference the"},{"startTime":1016.681,"endTime":1017.761,"body":"and psychological flow."},{"startTime":1017.911,"endTime":1021.061,"body":"So basically your, your"},{"startTime":1017.911,"endTime":1021.061,"body":"psychological flow through"},{"startTime":1021.061,"endTime":1024.031,"body":"the application is like much"},{"startTime":1021.061,"endTime":1024.031,"body":"more pleasant and pleasing."},{"startTime":1024.151,"endTime":1027.151,"body":"It's an application you like"},{"startTime":1024.151,"endTime":1027.151,"body":"to use as opposed to, for"},{"startTime":1027.151,"endTime":1029.271,"body":"example, using other products"},{"startTime":1029.321,"endTime":1034.511,"body":"the polar opposite is products"},{"startTime":1029.321,"endTime":1034.511,"body":"that we all are forced to use"},{"startTime":1034.781,"endTime":1038.501,"body":"that we like, find thoroughly,"},{"startTime":1034.781,"endTime":1038.501,"body":"like terrible as an experience."},{"startTime":1038.911,"endTime":1041.041,"body":"I was gonna say Jira"},{"startTime":1038.911,"endTime":1041.041,"body":"Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah."},{"startTime":1041.191,"endTime":1041.701,"body":"Jira too."},{"startTime":1041.881,"endTime":1042.091,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":1042.391,"endTime":1043.051,"body":"That's interesting."},{"startTime":1043.051,"endTime":1045.331,"body":"So, psychological flow"},{"startTime":1043.051,"endTime":1045.331,"body":"here is referenced from the"},{"startTime":1045.331,"endTime":1048.151,"body":"perspective of the customer,"},{"startTime":1045.331,"endTime":1048.151,"body":"those that are benefiting"},{"startTime":1048.151,"endTime":1049.261,"body":"from the work of Sprint."},{"startTime":1049.291,"endTime":1052.541,"body":"Well, I think it could be if"},{"startTime":1049.291,"endTime":1052.541,"body":"it's technical debt or CX work."},{"startTime":1052.661,"endTime":1053.591,"body":"It could be the team too."},{"startTime":1053.591,"endTime":1055.211,"body":"I mean, the team might really"},{"startTime":1053.591,"endTime":1055.211,"body":"enjoy internal customers."},{"startTime":1055.211,"endTime":1056.921,"body":"The team might enjoy that"},{"startTime":1055.211,"endTime":1056.921,"body":"kind of stuff, you know."},{"startTime":1057.32,"endTime":1060.38,"body":"So this was a minor change"},{"startTime":1057.32,"endTime":1060.38,"body":"you're adding an extra term."},{"startTime":1060.38,"endTime":1061.85,"body":"So it's not definition"},{"startTime":1060.38,"endTime":1061.85,"body":"of done anymore?"},{"startTime":1062.09,"endTime":1062.27,"body":"No."},{"startTime":1062.3,"endTime":1063.11,"body":"It's outcome done."},{"startTime":1063.11,"endTime":1063.77,"body":"Output done."},{"startTime":1064.22,"endTime":1064.49,"body":"Okay."},{"startTime":1064.85,"endTime":1067.97,"body":"And output done is really"},{"startTime":1064.85,"endTime":1067.97,"body":"just definition of done right."},{"startTime":1067.97,"endTime":1069.89,"body":"And then all, all the"},{"startTime":1067.97,"endTime":1069.89,"body":"definition goes to there."},{"startTime":1069.89,"endTime":1073.07,"body":"And then this new outcome"},{"startTime":1069.89,"endTime":1073.07,"body":"done is a separate definition."},{"startTime":1073.19,"endTime":1073.31,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":1073.58,"endTime":1075.72,"body":"Which means it's"},{"startTime":1073.58,"endTime":1075.72,"body":"that extra swim."},{"startTime":1075.84,"endTime":1076.11,"body":"Oh no."},{"startTime":1076.35,"endTime":1078.57,"body":"It's that extra column on the"},{"startTime":1076.35,"endTime":1078.57,"body":"board of saying like, did we"},{"startTime":1078.57,"endTime":1081.03,"body":"validate with the customer that"},{"startTime":1078.57,"endTime":1081.03,"body":"what we did actually solve the"},{"startTime":1081.03,"endTime":1084.38,"body":"problem that nobody does nobody."},{"startTime":1084.44,"endTime":1086.991,"body":"They just get the item to"},{"startTime":1084.44,"endTime":1086.991,"body":"done when it's dev done Right."},{"startTime":1087.05,"endTime":1087.92,"body":"And test done right."},{"startTime":1087.92,"endTime":1088.55,"body":"And that's it."},{"startTime":1088.55,"endTime":1089.9,"body":"So yeah, absolutely"},{"startTime":1088.55,"endTime":1089.9,"body":"agree with that."},{"startTime":1089.95,"endTime":1092.95,"body":"This is like that, Obama quote"},{"startTime":1089.95,"endTime":1092.95,"body":"of like, being a president"},{"startTime":1092.95,"endTime":1095.46,"body":"is like being the captain of"},{"startTime":1092.95,"endTime":1095.46,"body":"a big ship, being the person"},{"startTime":1095.46,"endTime":1098.191,"body":"steering a big container ship"},{"startTime":1095.46,"endTime":1098.191,"body":"and like you can turn the wheel"},{"startTime":1098.28,"endTime":1100.05,"body":"but you're only allowed to"},{"startTime":1098.28,"endTime":1100.05,"body":"turn the wheel a certain number"},{"startTime":1100.05,"endTime":1102.811,"body":"of degrees ' cause turning"},{"startTime":1100.05,"endTime":1102.811,"body":"more, might brake something."},{"startTime":1102.931,"endTime":1103.051,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":1103.051,"endTime":1105.211,"body":"And then like you don't"},{"startTime":1103.051,"endTime":1105.211,"body":"get to immediately see the"},{"startTime":1105.211,"endTime":1107.191,"body":"results of you're turning"},{"startTime":1105.211,"endTime":1107.191,"body":"the wheel like one degree."},{"startTime":1107.371,"endTime":1107.911,"body":"You have to wait."},{"startTime":1108.286,"endTime":1109.306,"body":"Yeah, for a while."},{"startTime":1109.306,"endTime":1110.355,"body":"That's a great analogy."},{"startTime":1110.355,"endTime":1110.866,"body":"I agree."},{"startTime":1110.916,"endTime":1113.736,"body":"Like that, that's this, it's"},{"startTime":1110.916,"endTime":1113.736,"body":"like you can add definitions"},{"startTime":1113.736,"endTime":1116.696,"body":"here in the DLC or whatever,"},{"startTime":1113.736,"endTime":1116.696,"body":"the main video game of Scrum,"},{"startTime":1116.995,"endTime":1119.605,"body":"I don't know if you're gonna"},{"startTime":1116.995,"endTime":1119.605,"body":"affect that with this is like"},{"startTime":1119.605,"endTime":1123.385,"body":"the, the, the getting people"},{"startTime":1119.605,"endTime":1123.385,"body":"to add another column and just"},{"startTime":1123.385,"endTime":1126.506,"body":"make that the way it is across"},{"startTime":1123.385,"endTime":1126.506,"body":"the board forever without"},{"startTime":1126.506,"endTime":1129.326,"body":"explicitly telling people"},{"startTime":1126.506,"endTime":1129.326,"body":"that's what they need to do."},{"startTime":1129.426,"endTime":1132.276,"body":"If I wrote this, I would give"},{"startTime":1129.426,"endTime":1132.276,"body":"people a graphical example"},{"startTime":1132.276,"endTime":1134.106,"body":"of like, this is what your"},{"startTime":1132.276,"endTime":1134.106,"body":"board probably looks like"},{"startTime":1134.295,"endTime":1136.095,"body":"and it probably would look"},{"startTime":1134.295,"endTime":1136.095,"body":"like their board, right?"},{"startTime":1136.275,"endTime":1138.615,"body":"Especially if you're, if you're"},{"startTime":1136.275,"endTime":1138.615,"body":"Jeff Sutherland or one of these"},{"startTime":1138.615,"endTime":1141.825,"body":"guys like you, you know what"},{"startTime":1138.615,"endTime":1141.825,"body":"90% of people are showing."},{"startTime":1142.095,"endTime":1144.795,"body":"Here's your to-do, doing,"},{"startTime":1142.095,"endTime":1144.795,"body":"done or whatever to do"},{"startTime":1145.095,"endTime":1148.275,"body":"qa, you know development,"},{"startTime":1145.095,"endTime":1148.275,"body":"doing development, done qa,"},{"startTime":1148.275,"endTime":1149.595,"body":"doing qa, done whatever."},{"startTime":1149.595,"endTime":1150.315,"body":"You probably like."},{"startTime":1150.525,"endTime":1153.675,"body":"Here's a half a dozen"},{"startTime":1150.525,"endTime":1153.675,"body":"typical workflows of the"},{"startTime":1153.675,"endTime":1154.995,"body":"way people do Scrum, right."},{"startTime":1155.295,"endTime":1158.505,"body":"And to all of these, you need"},{"startTime":1155.295,"endTime":1158.505,"body":"to add a column at the end"},{"startTime":1158.505,"endTime":1162.165,"body":"after done that says, validating"},{"startTime":1158.505,"endTime":1162.165,"body":"with the customer and then"},{"startTime":1162.165,"endTime":1165.165,"body":"after that, done, done, done"},{"startTime":1162.165,"endTime":1165.165,"body":"or whatever Val, value done."},{"startTime":1165.325,"endTime":1165.895,"body":"Outcome done."},{"startTime":1165.895,"endTime":1166.375,"body":"Outcome done."},{"startTime":1166.375,"endTime":1166.645,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":1166.975,"endTime":1170.005,"body":"So I would say on that, on"},{"startTime":1166.975,"endTime":1170.005,"body":"that front, maybe it would"},{"startTime":1170.005,"endTime":1173.755,"body":"be better to have a column"},{"startTime":1170.005,"endTime":1173.755,"body":"ahead of done that says,"},{"startTime":1173.755,"endTime":1176.275,"body":"validating with the customer"},{"startTime":1173.755,"endTime":1176.275,"body":"and then you're done once you"},{"startTime":1176.275,"endTime":1177.535,"body":"validate it with the customer."},{"startTime":1177.535,"endTime":1180.445,"body":"Right now, the teams may"},{"startTime":1177.535,"endTime":1180.445,"body":"bulk at that because the"},{"startTime":1180.445,"endTime":1181.915,"body":"lifecycle becomes longer."},{"startTime":1182.215,"endTime":1182.635,"body":"Right."},{"startTime":1182.935,"endTime":1186.355,"body":"But the overall impact"},{"startTime":1182.935,"endTime":1186.355,"body":"of what you're delivering"},{"startTime":1186.445,"endTime":1188.425,"body":"is much more exacting."},{"startTime":1188.425,"endTime":1191.305,"body":"You, you're actually getting"},{"startTime":1188.425,"endTime":1191.305,"body":"those metrics back from the"},{"startTime":1191.305,"endTime":1193.735,"body":"customer and the signals"},{"startTime":1191.305,"endTime":1193.735,"body":"that say we hit the mark"},{"startTime":1193.735,"endTime":1194.815,"body":"or we didn't hit the mark."},{"startTime":1194.915,"endTime":1195.635,"body":"I might just have."},{"startTime":1196.04,"endTime":1198.11,"body":"You know, doing, which"},{"startTime":1196.04,"endTime":1198.11,"body":"is all of those things"},{"startTime":1198.11,"endTime":1199.07,"body":"you described, right?"},{"startTime":1199.16,"endTime":1201.67,"body":"Development in progress"},{"startTime":1199.16,"endTime":1201.67,"body":"QA in progress, et cetera."},{"startTime":1201.95,"endTime":1204.26,"body":"And then validating"},{"startTime":1201.95,"endTime":1204.26,"body":"with the customer."},{"startTime":1204.44,"endTime":1208.49,"body":"Now, sometimes an item could"},{"startTime":1204.44,"endTime":1208.49,"body":"sit there for a while, right?"},{"startTime":1208.49,"endTime":1210.59,"body":"Because you don't have"},{"startTime":1208.49,"endTime":1210.59,"body":"access to the customer."},{"startTime":1210.67,"endTime":1213.55,"body":"You can fix those things"},{"startTime":1210.67,"endTime":1213.55,"body":"and then get to done."},{"startTime":1213.64,"endTime":1214.72,"body":"Once you get to done."},{"startTime":1214.751,"endTime":1217.481,"body":"It's like, okay, we've,"},{"startTime":1214.751,"endTime":1217.481,"body":"we've actually confirmed with"},{"startTime":1217.481,"endTime":1220.101,"body":"the customer, they received"},{"startTime":1217.481,"endTime":1220.101,"body":"the value they were Hoping"},{"startTime":1220.101,"endTime":1221.241,"body":"to get out of this, right?"},{"startTime":1221.291,"endTime":1225.281,"body":"Also incidentally, doing it that"},{"startTime":1221.291,"endTime":1225.281,"body":"way gives us the opportunity"},{"startTime":1225.281,"endTime":1227.471,"body":"to get the feedback that"},{"startTime":1225.281,"endTime":1227.471,"body":"we need from the customer."},{"startTime":1227.531,"endTime":1229.061,"body":"Oh, I thought you were gonna,"},{"startTime":1227.531,"endTime":1229.061,"body":"I thought you were gonna"},{"startTime":1229.061,"endTime":1230.171,"body":"go where I was gonna go."},{"startTime":1230.171,"endTime":1232.471,"body":"Which is , like doing it"},{"startTime":1230.171,"endTime":1232.471,"body":"the way that I suggested,"},{"startTime":1232.471,"endTime":1235.321,"body":"which is also the way"},{"startTime":1232.471,"endTime":1235.321,"body":"that this document infers."},{"startTime":1235.421,"endTime":1237.431,"body":"this document doesn't dictate"},{"startTime":1235.421,"endTime":1237.431,"body":"how you're gonna do things, but"},{"startTime":1237.431,"endTime":1240.001,"body":"it also doesn't get into the"},{"startTime":1237.431,"endTime":1240.001,"body":"nitty gritty of helping teams."},{"startTime":1240.001,"endTime":1241.951,"body":"The teams still have to"},{"startTime":1240.001,"endTime":1241.951,"body":"extrapolate from this document"},{"startTime":1241.951,"endTime":1242.701,"body":"the best way to do it."},{"startTime":1242.731,"endTime":1244.471,"body":"most teams I say"},{"startTime":1242.731,"endTime":1244.471,"body":"would extrapolate."},{"startTime":1244.801,"endTime":1246.601,"body":"The way that I Yes, agreed."},{"startTime":1246.601,"endTime":1247.156,"body":"Just suggested, agreed."},{"startTime":1247.456,"endTime":1250.926,"body":"However, step into my office,"},{"startTime":1247.456,"endTime":1250.926,"body":"the better way to do this"},{"startTime":1251.226,"endTime":1254.926,"body":"would be for that definition"},{"startTime":1251.226,"endTime":1254.926,"body":"of outcome done , that"},{"startTime":1254.926,"endTime":1257.176,"body":"column needs to come before"},{"startTime":1254.926,"endTime":1257.176,"body":"development starts working."},{"startTime":1257.476,"endTime":1260.386,"body":"Oh, you have to define the"},{"startTime":1257.476,"endTime":1260.386,"body":"definition way upfront."},{"startTime":1260.386,"endTime":1263.046,"body":"I do agree with that it's"},{"startTime":1260.386,"endTime":1263.046,"body":"just the validation of that."},{"startTime":1263.076,"endTime":1266.436,"body":"Once you've done the work, , if"},{"startTime":1263.076,"endTime":1266.436,"body":"you are not putting up silos"},{"startTime":1266.586,"endTime":1269.796,"body":"and your development team"},{"startTime":1266.586,"endTime":1269.796,"body":"truly is self-organizing,"},{"startTime":1269.796,"endTime":1273.786,"body":"self-managing self, whatever"},{"startTime":1269.796,"endTime":1273.786,"body":"term you want to use in any"},{"startTime":1273.786,"endTime":1276.756,"body":"addition of scrum guide, like"},{"startTime":1273.786,"endTime":1276.756,"body":"the development team, this"},{"startTime":1276.756,"endTime":1278.136,"body":"shouldn't be the designer's job."},{"startTime":1278.196,"endTime":1279.606,"body":"This shouldn't be the"},{"startTime":1278.196,"endTime":1279.606,"body":"product manager's job."},{"startTime":1279.606,"endTime":1280.956,"body":"This shouldn't be"},{"startTime":1279.606,"endTime":1280.956,"body":"Marty Cagan's job."},{"startTime":1280.986,"endTime":1282.156,"body":"This shouldn't be"},{"startTime":1280.986,"endTime":1282.156,"body":"any of their jobs."},{"startTime":1282.336,"endTime":1283.056,"body":"It should be."},{"startTime":1283.431,"endTime":1289.161,"body":"The team's job to say like,"},{"startTime":1283.431,"endTime":1289.161,"body":"are you sure doing this is"},{"startTime":1289.161,"endTime":1291.891,"body":"what the customer is, is what's"},{"startTime":1289.161,"endTime":1291.891,"body":"gonna solve their problem."},{"startTime":1291.981,"endTime":1292.221,"body":"Right."},{"startTime":1292.221,"endTime":1294.371,"body":"And , you can stub out"},{"startTime":1292.221,"endTime":1294.371,"body":"some stuff in Dev that's"},{"startTime":1294.371,"endTime":1295.271,"body":"just like front end."},{"startTime":1295.421,"endTime":1298.181,"body":"You can do something quick"},{"startTime":1295.421,"endTime":1298.181,"body":"in a day that maybe all that"},{"startTime":1298.181,"endTime":1300.131,"body":"code gets thrown away or"},{"startTime":1298.181,"endTime":1300.131,"body":"never gets promoted to the"},{"startTime":1300.131,"endTime":1301.001,"body":"next environment or whatever."},{"startTime":1301.051,"endTime":1305.121,"body":", Cool, you spent a day, to"},{"startTime":1301.051,"endTime":1305.121,"body":"have a live prototype to"},{"startTime":1305.121,"endTime":1306.141,"body":"get the customer on a call."},{"startTime":1306.271,"endTime":1308.311,"body":"now you and I both know,"},{"startTime":1306.271,"endTime":1308.311,"body":"the harder part of that"},{"startTime":1308.311,"endTime":1311.131,"body":"is getting a busy customer"},{"startTime":1308.311,"endTime":1311.131,"body":"to dedicate their time."},{"startTime":1311.136,"endTime":1311.206,"body":"Exactly."},{"startTime":1311.441,"endTime":1313.761,"body":"That's hard, but if you're"},{"startTime":1311.441,"endTime":1313.761,"body":"using a suite of software"},{"startTime":1314.031,"endTime":1317.341,"body":"and you have a whole team of"},{"startTime":1314.031,"endTime":1317.341,"body":"developers in your corner you"},{"startTime":1317.341,"endTime":1318.571,"body":"will spare the time, right?"},{"startTime":1318.571,"endTime":1318.572,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":1318.572,"endTime":1319.831,"body":"I, as a customer just"},{"startTime":1318.572,"endTime":1319.831,"body":"say, I can't imagine."},{"startTime":1319.991,"endTime":1322.811,"body":"You probably can find in that"},{"startTime":1319.991,"endTime":1322.811,"body":"group some people that would"},{"startTime":1322.811,"endTime":1325.991,"body":"like spend 20 minutes Right."},{"startTime":1326.291,"endTime":1329.051,"body":"to have their, their"},{"startTime":1326.291,"endTime":1329.051,"body":"particular problem solved."},{"startTime":1329.411,"endTime":1331.991,"body":"Yeah, I understand what it's"},{"startTime":1329.411,"endTime":1331.991,"body":"trying to say, when I hear"},{"startTime":1331.991,"endTime":1334.781,"body":"the product management folks"},{"startTime":1331.991,"endTime":1334.781,"body":"hammering the Scrum folks to"},{"startTime":1334.781,"endTime":1337.601,"body":"be like, there's no value in"},{"startTime":1334.781,"endTime":1337.601,"body":"that, or like, our problems are"},{"startTime":1337.601,"endTime":1338.561,"body":"not solved with any of that."},{"startTime":1338.561,"endTime":1340.901,"body":"Like, this is the kind of"},{"startTime":1338.561,"endTime":1340.901,"body":"stuff it's like, you should"},{"startTime":1340.901,"endTime":1343.736,"body":"know before your, before your"},{"startTime":1340.901,"endTime":1343.736,"body":"development team is doing all"},{"startTime":1343.736,"endTime":1346.091,"body":"this work, you should know"},{"startTime":1343.736,"endTime":1346.091,"body":"that this solves a problem."},{"startTime":1346.271,"endTime":1347.891,"body":"I'm not saying that you"},{"startTime":1346.271,"endTime":1347.891,"body":"don't need the extra"},{"startTime":1347.891,"endTime":1348.731,"body":"column afterwards."},{"startTime":1348.851,"endTime":1350.081,"body":"Definitely do that too."},{"startTime":1350.576,"endTime":1350.756,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":1350.756,"endTime":1353.366,"body":"I mean post-delivery telemetry"},{"startTime":1350.756,"endTime":1353.366,"body":"is always a good thing."},{"startTime":1353.366,"endTime":1354.086,"body":"But I agree."},{"startTime":1354.116,"endTime":1356.306,"body":"Don't start work unless you"},{"startTime":1354.116,"endTime":1356.306,"body":"know what you're doing and"},{"startTime":1356.306,"endTime":1358.806,"body":"who you're doing it for and"},{"startTime":1356.306,"endTime":1358.806,"body":"why those three questions."},{"startTime":1358.906,"endTime":1361.516,"body":"there are problems that"},{"startTime":1358.906,"endTime":1361.516,"body":"I would pay to solve."},{"startTime":1361.521,"endTime":1361.651,"body":"Right?"},{"startTime":1361.816,"endTime":1364.516,"body":"Right I will give you money"},{"startTime":1361.816,"endTime":1364.516,"body":"and I'll break out my wallet"},{"startTime":1364.516,"endTime":1365.866,"body":"right now and give you cash."},{"startTime":1366.136,"endTime":1368.686,"body":"If I can never have this problem"},{"startTime":1366.136,"endTime":1368.686,"body":"again, if it's that kind of"},{"startTime":1368.686,"endTime":1371.956,"body":"problem, I'll bring the team,"},{"startTime":1368.686,"endTime":1371.956,"body":"we'll, we'll bring the brain"},{"startTime":1371.956,"endTime":1373.336,"body":"trust and we'll solve it."},{"startTime":1373.336,"endTime":1375.596,"body":"But if I get in the room and"},{"startTime":1373.336,"endTime":1375.596,"body":"the customer's like, well I"},{"startTime":1375.596,"endTime":1378.146,"body":"don't really have budget and I"},{"startTime":1375.596,"endTime":1378.146,"body":"don't know, blah, blah, blah."},{"startTime":1378.146,"endTime":1380.876,"body":"I'm like, Hey, man, like"},{"startTime":1378.146,"endTime":1380.876,"body":"you should, like next,"},{"startTime":1380.876,"endTime":1383.456,"body":"listen, I was willing to"},{"startTime":1380.876,"endTime":1383.456,"body":"take my time to do this."},{"startTime":1383.456,"endTime":1386.066,"body":"That's my job in product"},{"startTime":1383.456,"endTime":1386.066,"body":"management, but next time you"},{"startTime":1386.066,"endTime":1389.036,"body":"tell me you got a great idea now"},{"startTime":1386.066,"endTime":1389.036,"body":"you're a little more experienced"},{"startTime":1389.036,"endTime":1391.276,"body":"to understand they were just"},{"startTime":1389.036,"endTime":1391.276,"body":"kind of they're a little"},{"startTime":1391.276,"endTime":1392.536,"body":"pulling your chain over here."},{"startTime":1392.606,"endTime":1394.196,"body":"I don't blame customers"},{"startTime":1392.606,"endTime":1394.196,"body":"for doing that."},{"startTime":1394.196,"endTime":1395.486,"body":"But I'll tell you this, right."},{"startTime":1395.486,"endTime":1399.116,"body":"as a savvy product manager,"},{"startTime":1395.486,"endTime":1399.116,"body":"one of the skill sets you"},{"startTime":1399.116,"endTime":1402.056,"body":"bring to the table is sorting"},{"startTime":1399.116,"endTime":1402.056,"body":"out the wheat from the chef."},{"startTime":1402.056,"endTime":1403.766,"body":"What I mean by that"},{"startTime":1402.056,"endTime":1403.766,"body":"is, looking at."},{"startTime":1404.111,"endTime":1407.351,"body":"True needs and validating"},{"startTime":1404.111,"endTime":1407.351,"body":"those versus the wishes,"},{"startTime":1407.351,"endTime":1408.911,"body":"the wants and the desires."},{"startTime":1408.991,"endTime":1411.571,"body":"Anyone can tell you anything"},{"startTime":1408.991,"endTime":1411.571,"body":"from a customer perspective,"},{"startTime":1411.571,"endTime":1413.041,"body":"but do they truly need it?"},{"startTime":1413.051,"endTime":1414.011,"body":"How bad do they need it?"},{"startTime":1414.011,"endTime":1415.301,"body":"Are they willing to pay for it?"},{"startTime":1415.301,"endTime":1417.521,"body":"All of those things come into"},{"startTime":1415.301,"endTime":1417.521,"body":"the picture because you have an"},{"startTime":1417.521,"endTime":1418.871,"body":"opportunity cost to consider."},{"startTime":1418.871,"endTime":1420.611,"body":"You're doing something"},{"startTime":1418.871,"endTime":1420.611,"body":"'cause somebody told you"},{"startTime":1420.611,"endTime":1423.761,"body":"to do it and you could be"},{"startTime":1420.611,"endTime":1423.761,"body":"working on something else."},{"startTime":1423.766,"endTime":1426.326,"body":"can I give you the most"},{"startTime":1423.766,"endTime":1426.326,"body":"boring pushback in the world?"},{"startTime":1426.326,"endTime":1426.386,"body":"Yeah, yeah, yeah."},{"startTime":1426.436,"endTime":1429.306,"body":"the most boring pushback in"},{"startTime":1426.436,"endTime":1429.306,"body":"the world for this is but ohm."},{"startTime":1429.606,"endTime":1432.846,"body":"Like any minute my developers"},{"startTime":1429.606,"endTime":1432.846,"body":"spend not writing code."},{"startTime":1433.006,"endTime":1433.906,"body":"that's overhead."},{"startTime":1434.176,"endTime":1437.546,"body":"That distracts them from"},{"startTime":1434.176,"endTime":1437.546,"body":"producing quality software."},{"startTime":1437.966,"endTime":1438.836,"body":"Talking to people."},{"startTime":1438.841,"endTime":1438.971,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":1439.271,"endTime":1440.321,"body":"I, we have seen that."},{"startTime":1440.361,"endTime":1441.591,"body":"people have told me that."},{"startTime":1441.641,"endTime":1443.141,"body":"People have been very"},{"startTime":1441.641,"endTime":1443.141,"body":"passionate about that."},{"startTime":1443.141,"endTime":1443.681,"body":"Absolutely."},{"startTime":1443.831,"endTime":1444.251,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":1444.311,"endTime":1445.891,"body":"They'll say things"},{"startTime":1444.311,"endTime":1445.891,"body":"like this happens."},{"startTime":1445.891,"endTime":1449.191,"body":"Typically when you have a"},{"startTime":1445.891,"endTime":1449.191,"body":"PMO type of setup, they'll"},{"startTime":1449.191,"endTime":1451.781,"body":"say, we're paying these"},{"startTime":1449.191,"endTime":1451.781,"body":"developers to write code we're"},{"startTime":1451.781,"endTime":1453.961,"body":"not paying them to talk to"},{"startTime":1451.781,"endTime":1453.961,"body":"customers I mean, these are"},{"startTime":1453.961,"endTime":1456.001,"body":"all massive anti-patterns."},{"startTime":1456.131,"endTime":1459.271,"body":"So what's interesting about"},{"startTime":1456.131,"endTime":1459.271,"body":"this point is in this expansion"},{"startTime":1459.451,"endTime":1461.931,"body":"of the Scrum guide, they"},{"startTime":1459.451,"endTime":1461.931,"body":"actually mentioned that one"},{"startTime":1461.931,"endTime":1465.621,"body":"of the objectives should be to"},{"startTime":1461.931,"endTime":1465.621,"body":"reduce the distance between."},{"startTime":1465.921,"endTime":1468.501,"body":"Product developers, which"},{"startTime":1465.921,"endTime":1468.501,"body":"is what they call developers"},{"startTime":1468.501,"endTime":1469.461,"body":"and testers, et cetera."},{"startTime":1469.461,"endTime":1471.741,"body":"We used to be called developers,"},{"startTime":1469.461,"endTime":1471.741,"body":"are now product developers"},{"startTime":1472.021,"endTime":1475.981,"body":"between them and stakeholders,"},{"startTime":1472.021,"endTime":1475.981,"body":"which they're also changing"},{"startTime":1475.981,"endTime":1478.231,"body":"now to supporters, right?"},{"startTime":1478.411,"endTime":1481.411,"body":"So I think they're heading in"},{"startTime":1478.411,"endTime":1481.411,"body":"the right direction, but it"},{"startTime":1481.411,"endTime":1484.111,"body":"seems to me they seem to be"},{"startTime":1481.411,"endTime":1484.111,"body":"like hinting at that, right?"},{"startTime":1484.111,"endTime":1487.171,"body":"Rather than saying, do this,"},{"startTime":1484.111,"endTime":1487.171,"body":"there's no, there's no,"},{"startTime":1487.531,"endTime":1490.261,"body":"there's no direction here"},{"startTime":1487.531,"endTime":1490.261,"body":"other than suggestions."},{"startTime":1490.261,"endTime":1491.971,"body":"And they'll hide behind that."},{"startTime":1492.001,"endTime":1495.481,"body":"The fact that this is a"},{"startTime":1492.001,"endTime":1495.481,"body":"framework adopted to your use."},{"startTime":1495.481,"endTime":1496.621,"body":"Let's talk about supporters."},{"startTime":1496.771,"endTime":1499.561,"body":"One of the things that the"},{"startTime":1496.771,"endTime":1499.561,"body":"DLC ads is a supporter, is"},{"startTime":1499.561,"endTime":1501.481,"body":"a specific stakeholder type."},{"startTime":1501.751,"endTime":1505.621,"body":"Supporters are supporting"},{"startTime":1501.751,"endTime":1505.621,"body":"stakeholders and change agents,"},{"startTime":1505.681,"endTime":1509.101,"body":"supporters are supporting"},{"startTime":1505.681,"endTime":1509.101,"body":"stakeholders and change agents."},{"startTime":1509.311,"endTime":1513.191,"body":"Supporters are often part of"},{"startTime":1509.311,"endTime":1513.191,"body":"a powerful guiding coalition."},{"startTime":1513.271,"endTime":1516.721,"body":"who inspire and remove"},{"startTime":1513.271,"endTime":1516.721,"body":"demotivating factors supporters"},{"startTime":1516.961,"endTime":1520.426,"body":"support the Scrum team to"},{"startTime":1516.961,"endTime":1520.426,"body":"thrive and influence the"},{"startTime":1520.426,"endTime":1522.976,"body":"organization's workflows,"},{"startTime":1520.426,"endTime":1522.976,"body":"processes, and systems."},{"startTime":1523.216,"endTime":1526.396,"body":"Supporters should participate"},{"startTime":1523.216,"endTime":1526.396,"body":"when and where needed"},{"startTime":1526.486,"endTime":1528.256,"body":"and or as requested."},{"startTime":1528.526,"endTime":1530.566,"body":"Value creation often"},{"startTime":1528.526,"endTime":1530.566,"body":"requires effective and"},{"startTime":1530.566,"endTime":1532.906,"body":"constructive collaboration"},{"startTime":1530.566,"endTime":1532.906,"body":"with other stakeholders."},{"startTime":1533.186,"endTime":1536.096,"body":"Stakeholders are entity,"},{"startTime":1533.186,"endTime":1536.096,"body":"individual or group"},{"startTime":1536.096,"endTime":1538.856,"body":"interested in, affected"},{"startTime":1536.096,"endTime":1538.856,"body":"by or impacting inputs,"},{"startTime":1538.856,"endTime":1540.296,"body":"activity or, or outcomes?"},{"startTime":1540.626,"endTime":1542.096,"body":"So this is the same"},{"startTime":1540.626,"endTime":1542.096,"body":"as they were before."},{"startTime":1542.126,"endTime":1542.306,"body":"Okay."},{"startTime":1542.306,"endTime":1542.816,"body":"Stakeholders, right."},{"startTime":1542.816,"endTime":1544.076,"body":"But then supporters, I guess."},{"startTime":1544.076,"endTime":1546.086,"body":"So I guess supporters"},{"startTime":1544.076,"endTime":1546.086,"body":"are like managers."},{"startTime":1546.206,"endTime":1549.296,"body":"People that like help the Scrum"},{"startTime":1546.206,"endTime":1549.296,"body":"team actively help depending on"},{"startTime":1549.296,"endTime":1550.076,"body":"the size of the organization."},{"startTime":1550.076,"endTime":1552.626,"body":"Example, the supporters include"},{"startTime":1550.076,"endTime":1552.626,"body":"are not limited to colleagues."},{"startTime":1552.941,"endTime":1553.601,"body":"That's terrible."},{"startTime":1553.661,"endTime":1554.111,"body":"Colleagues."},{"startTime":1554.141,"endTime":1554.471,"body":"Yeah, I know."},{"startTime":1554.561,"endTime":1555.251,"body":"Delete that word."},{"startTime":1555.521,"endTime":1556.421,"body":"Decision makers."},{"startTime":1556.481,"endTime":1556.751,"body":"Okay."},{"startTime":1556.751,"endTime":1557.959,"body":"Decision makers is,"},{"startTime":1556.751,"endTime":1557.959,"body":"that's a good one."},{"startTime":1558.181,"endTime":1559.171,"body":"Financial sponsors."},{"startTime":1559.171,"endTime":1559.861,"body":"That's a good one."},{"startTime":1559.861,"endTime":1561.211,"body":"Governance, oversight."},{"startTime":1561.241,"endTime":1563.521,"body":"You know what I think"},{"startTime":1561.241,"endTime":1563.521,"body":"about governance managers,"},{"startTime":1563.521,"endTime":1564.331,"body":"which is what I said."},{"startTime":1564.331,"endTime":1564.841,"body":"Subject MAs."},{"startTime":1565.141,"endTime":1566.071,"body":"Okay."},{"startTime":1566.071,"endTime":1566.072,"body":"SMEs."},{"startTime":1566.241,"endTime":1568.551,"body":"Marketing, hr,"},{"startTime":1566.241,"endTime":1568.551,"body":"finance, procurement."},{"startTime":1568.761,"endTime":1569.901,"body":"So Alli Domains, basically."},{"startTime":1569.901,"endTime":1570.261,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":1570.261,"endTime":1570.262,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":1570.411,"endTime":1572.601,"body":"Anybody that you need,"},{"startTime":1570.411,"endTime":1572.601,"body":"that you really should"},{"startTime":1572.601,"endTime":1574.791,"body":"have on the Scrum team that"},{"startTime":1572.601,"endTime":1574.791,"body":"isn't on the Scrum team."},{"startTime":1575.121,"endTime":1575.271,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":1575.276,"endTime":1575.366,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":1575.366,"endTime":1577.646,"body":"I wanna look at his 83"},{"startTime":1575.366,"endTime":1577.646,"body":"and 71 reference before"},{"startTime":1577.646,"endTime":1578.576,"body":"we get outta this section."},{"startTime":1578.756,"endTime":1581.271,"body":"83 is Kotter Leading Change."},{"startTime":1581.301,"endTime":1582.531,"body":"We did a whole podcast on that."},{"startTime":1582.531,"endTime":1582.741,"body":"I nailed it."},{"startTime":1582.741,"endTime":1583.072,"body":"yeah, yeah."},{"startTime":1583.077,"endTime":1584.907,"body":"So I think we, I think we"},{"startTime":1583.077,"endTime":1584.907,"body":"got a handle on supporters."},{"startTime":1584.957,"endTime":1588.872,"body":"I think the advantage here is"},{"startTime":1584.957,"endTime":1588.872,"body":"it acknowledges that like Scrum"},{"startTime":1588.872,"endTime":1590.192,"body":"doesn't just live by itself."},{"startTime":1590.372,"endTime":1592.622,"body":"Like there are these"},{"startTime":1590.372,"endTime":1592.622,"body":"other people that have"},{"startTime":1592.622,"endTime":1596.522,"body":"control of finance and have"},{"startTime":1592.622,"endTime":1596.522,"body":"control of the, the say"},{"startTime":1596.522,"endTime":1597.842,"body":"on who goes on what teams."},{"startTime":1597.842,"endTime":1600.052,"body":"And they, they have control"},{"startTime":1597.842,"endTime":1600.052,"body":"of like hiring authority"},{"startTime":1600.052,"endTime":1600.472,"body":"and stuff like that."},{"startTime":1600.472,"endTime":1602.392,"body":"And those people are not"},{"startTime":1600.472,"endTime":1602.392,"body":"on the Scrum team, right?"},{"startTime":1602.392,"endTime":1604.222,"body":"Like, theoretically the"},{"startTime":1602.392,"endTime":1604.222,"body":"Scrum team is self-managing."},{"startTime":1604.222,"endTime":1604.972,"body":"They figure it all out."},{"startTime":1604.972,"endTime":1606.022,"body":"But in reality."},{"startTime":1606.292,"endTime":1608.722,"body":"You have supporters that are"},{"startTime":1606.292,"endTime":1608.722,"body":"meant to support the team."},{"startTime":1608.782,"endTime":1611.782,"body":"So that that, that's a positive"},{"startTime":1608.782,"endTime":1611.782,"body":"to me that like, there is"},{"startTime":1611.782,"endTime":1612.802,"body":"some acknowledgement of that."},{"startTime":1613.072,"endTime":1613.972,"body":"Yeah, I agree."},{"startTime":1613.972,"endTime":1616.672,"body":"I also think that it's sort"},{"startTime":1613.972,"endTime":1616.672,"body":"of antithetical to what"},{"startTime":1616.672,"endTime":1619.522,"body":"Sweiber said you don't need"},{"startTime":1616.672,"endTime":1619.522,"body":"this elaborate structure."},{"startTime":1620.002,"endTime":1620.332,"body":"Right."},{"startTime":1620.332,"endTime":1622.132,"body":"We need just enough structure."},{"startTime":1622.162,"endTime":1624.322,"body":"Oh yeah, that's what it"},{"startTime":1622.162,"endTime":1624.322,"body":"says in the gate column too."},{"startTime":1624.327,"endTime":1624.547,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":1624.577,"endTime":1625.807,"body":"I mean, you are, you're right."},{"startTime":1625.807,"endTime":1628.687,"body":"I mean, we don't need,"},{"startTime":1625.807,"endTime":1628.687,"body":"like in a startup Oh yeah."},{"startTime":1628.687,"endTime":1629.722,"body":"You don't need, you"},{"startTime":1628.687,"endTime":1629.722,"body":"don't have that."},{"startTime":1629.722,"endTime":1629.962,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":1629.962,"endTime":1631.747,"body":"You don't have it, and you"},{"startTime":1629.962,"endTime":1631.747,"body":"don't it, and you know what?"},{"startTime":1632.017,"endTime":1634.667,"body":"Somehow they're successful,"},{"startTime":1632.017,"endTime":1634.667,"body":"somehow they figure it out."},{"startTime":1634.707,"endTime":1634.917,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":1634.917,"endTime":1638.097,"body":"Role proliferation and the"},{"startTime":1634.917,"endTime":1638.097,"body":"core of Scrum, I mean, the"},{"startTime":1638.097,"endTime":1639.827,"body":"core of Scrum is, simplicity."},{"startTime":1639.947,"endTime":1641.417,"body":"I mean, it's a really"},{"startTime":1639.947,"endTime":1641.417,"body":"simple framework."},{"startTime":1641.417,"endTime":1643.697,"body":"the scrum guide itself,"},{"startTime":1641.417,"endTime":1643.697,"body":"like not the DLC."},{"startTime":1643.797,"endTime":1645.147,"body":"Hey, you're just a"},{"startTime":1643.797,"endTime":1645.147,"body":"bunch of people working"},{"startTime":1645.147,"endTime":1646.287,"body":"together and being cool."},{"startTime":1646.437,"endTime":1649.157,"body":"I don't know how I feel about"},{"startTime":1646.437,"endTime":1649.157,"body":"this category, you know?"},{"startTime":1649.497,"endTime":1651.957,"body":"It goes against the principle"},{"startTime":1649.497,"endTime":1651.957,"body":"of just enough structure."},{"startTime":1652.117,"endTime":1655.787,"body":"So . The next point is the"},{"startTime":1652.117,"endTime":1655.787,"body":"DLC states that a product"},{"startTime":1655.787,"endTime":1658.907,"body":"developer who is neither"},{"startTime":1655.787,"endTime":1658.907,"body":"willing nor ready, nor able to"},{"startTime":1658.907,"endTime":1662.297,"body":"be a professional, should step"},{"startTime":1658.907,"endTime":1662.297,"body":"down as a product developer."},{"startTime":1662.297,"endTime":1666.257,"body":"They have this, this terminology"},{"startTime":1662.297,"endTime":1666.257,"body":"should, should step down."},{"startTime":1666.257,"endTime":1667.727,"body":"Let, let's search"},{"startTime":1666.257,"endTime":1667.727,"body":"for, should step down."},{"startTime":1667.727,"endTime":1667.997,"body":"Okay."},{"startTime":1668.347,"endTime":1672.337,"body":"So I'm searching for, the"},{"startTime":1668.347,"endTime":1672.337,"body":"words should step down and"},{"startTime":1672.337,"endTime":1673.657,"body":"it's under product developer."},{"startTime":1673.687,"endTime":1673.837,"body":"Okay."},{"startTime":1673.837,"endTime":1675.967,"body":"Here, the product developer"},{"startTime":1673.837,"endTime":1675.967,"body":"is an accountability."},{"startTime":1676.217,"endTime":1678.557,"body":"It says, all product"},{"startTime":1676.217,"endTime":1678.557,"body":"developers together should"},{"startTime":1678.557,"endTime":1680.777,"body":"possess all the skills"},{"startTime":1678.557,"endTime":1680.777,"body":"needed to create increments."},{"startTime":1681.017,"endTime":1684.737,"body":"The combined skillset, often"},{"startTime":1681.017,"endTime":1684.737,"body":"referred to as cross-functional."},{"startTime":1684.737,"endTime":1685.007,"body":"Okay."},{"startTime":1685.127,"endTime":1685.337,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":1685.462,"endTime":1687.887,"body":"So the, so this was developer,"},{"startTime":1685.462,"endTime":1687.887,"body":"now it's a product developer."},{"startTime":1687.917,"endTime":1689.657,"body":"'cause we throw product"},{"startTime":1687.917,"endTime":1689.657,"body":"in front of it because"},{"startTime":1689.657,"endTime":1690.827,"body":"Marty Cagan wrote a book."},{"startTime":1691.037,"endTime":1691.457,"body":"That's right."},{"startTime":1691.877,"endTime":1692.297,"body":"He wrote several."},{"startTime":1692.447,"endTime":1694.367,"body":"So now that we're all in"},{"startTime":1692.447,"endTime":1694.367,"body":"the same marketing page,"},{"startTime":1694.397,"endTime":1698.987,"body":"there's six references in this"},{"startTime":1694.397,"endTime":1698.987,"body":"document to should step down."},{"startTime":1699.377,"endTime":1699.527,"body":"Okay."},{"startTime":1699.527,"endTime":1702.557,"body":"And it says as a rule of"},{"startTime":1699.527,"endTime":1702.557,"body":"thumb, a product developer"},{"startTime":1702.557,"endTime":1705.407,"body":"who is neither willing nor"},{"startTime":1702.557,"endTime":1705.407,"body":"ready, nor able to be a"},{"startTime":1705.407,"endTime":1708.467,"body":"professional, should step"},{"startTime":1705.407,"endTime":1708.467,"body":"down as a product developer."},{"startTime":1708.557,"endTime":1711.617,"body":"I am wondering why this is,"},{"startTime":1708.557,"endTime":1711.617,"body":"why this is in here at all."},{"startTime":1711.677,"endTime":1713.837,"body":"It's not needed I could"},{"startTime":1711.677,"endTime":1713.837,"body":"just replace product."},{"startTime":1714.137,"endTime":1716.327,"body":"Developer with a janitor."},{"startTime":1716.387,"endTime":1716.867,"body":"Oh really?"},{"startTime":1716.867,"endTime":1718.217,"body":"Because you gotta"},{"startTime":1716.867,"endTime":1718.217,"body":"be professional."},{"startTime":1718.307,"endTime":1718.967,"body":"You are working."},{"startTime":1718.967,"endTime":1721.097,"body":"Let me search, let me"},{"startTime":1718.967,"endTime":1721.097,"body":"search for the other places."},{"startTime":1721.097,"endTime":1721.157,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":1721.172,"endTime":1721.292,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":1721.297,"endTime":1724.037,"body":"So it says a product,"},{"startTime":1721.297,"endTime":1724.037,"body":"product management skills."},{"startTime":1724.397,"endTime":1727.427,"body":"A product owner who's neither"},{"startTime":1724.397,"endTime":1727.427,"body":"willing, ready, nor able"},{"startTime":1727.457,"endTime":1730.007,"body":"to gain product management"},{"startTime":1727.457,"endTime":1730.007,"body":"skills should step down."},{"startTime":1730.107,"endTime":1733.497,"body":"A scrum master who's neither"},{"startTime":1730.107,"endTime":1733.497,"body":"willing, oh goodness me,"},{"startTime":1733.497,"endTime":1735.777,"body":"they sprinkled it across"},{"startTime":1733.497,"endTime":1735.777,"body":"all the roles every night."},{"startTime":1735.777,"endTime":1738.267,"body":"Product owner, product"},{"startTime":1735.777,"endTime":1738.267,"body":"developer, scrum master,"},{"startTime":1738.267,"endTime":1739.557,"body":"like they're all in here."},{"startTime":1739.557,"endTime":1741.687,"body":"They should step down if"},{"startTime":1739.557,"endTime":1741.687,"body":"they don't want do that job."},{"startTime":1741.937,"endTime":1744.337,"body":"let's talk about elitist"},{"startTime":1741.937,"endTime":1744.337,"body":"gatekeeping here."},{"startTime":1744.337,"endTime":1746.497,"body":"Let's talk about working in"},{"startTime":1744.337,"endTime":1746.497,"body":"the worst work centers that"},{"startTime":1746.497,"endTime":1749.077,"body":"I've worked in where they're"},{"startTime":1746.497,"endTime":1749.077,"body":"saying like, well, Brian, if"},{"startTime":1749.077,"endTime":1753.307,"body":"you don't wanna work 65 hours a"},{"startTime":1749.077,"endTime":1753.307,"body":"week, then you should step down"},{"startTime":1753.307,"endTime":1757.057,"body":"because we got loads of people"},{"startTime":1753.307,"endTime":1757.057,"body":"willing to work 65 hours a week."},{"startTime":1757.267,"endTime":1759.577,"body":"If you don't want to be"},{"startTime":1757.267,"endTime":1759.577,"body":"a quote professional like"},{"startTime":1759.577,"endTime":1761.797,"body":"that, that's what, that's"},{"startTime":1759.577,"endTime":1761.797,"body":"the way this sounds to me."},{"startTime":1761.887,"endTime":1762.127,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":1762.427,"endTime":1762.637,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":1762.637,"endTime":1763.477,"body":"I can't disagree."},{"startTime":1763.477,"endTime":1764.167,"body":"I think that's true."},{"startTime":1764.167,"endTime":1765.637,"body":"That is exactly how it sounds."},{"startTime":1765.937,"endTime":1768.817,"body":"But in that section, they're"},{"startTime":1765.937,"endTime":1768.817,"body":"kind of making things a little"},{"startTime":1768.817,"endTime":1771.578,"body":"more confusing in the product"},{"startTime":1768.817,"endTime":1771.578,"body":"developer section, right?"},{"startTime":1771.583,"endTime":1775.267,"body":"Because they're saying"},{"startTime":1771.583,"endTime":1775.267,"body":"that at least one product"},{"startTime":1775.327,"endTime":1779.047,"body":"developer out of however many"},{"startTime":1775.327,"endTime":1779.047,"body":"you have, should be human."},{"startTime":1779.347,"endTime":1782.737,"body":"And they're saying that's with"},{"startTime":1779.347,"endTime":1782.737,"body":"regards to the AI section."},{"startTime":1782.742,"endTime":1783.002,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":1783.007,"endTime":1783.667,"body":"Yeah, I think it is."},{"startTime":1783.667,"endTime":1783.907,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":1783.967,"endTime":1785.017,"body":"But they don't say it that way."},{"startTime":1785.017,"endTime":1786.367,"body":"They just say it"},{"startTime":1785.017,"endTime":1786.367,"body":"should be human."},{"startTime":1786.547,"endTime":1787.222,"body":"And then they say."},{"startTime":1787.522,"endTime":1790.282,"body":"if they can't do all of these"},{"startTime":1787.522,"endTime":1790.282,"body":"things and be professional,"},{"startTime":1790.282,"endTime":1791.182,"body":"they should step down."},{"startTime":1791.482,"endTime":1793.942,"body":"And then they liberally"},{"startTime":1791.482,"endTime":1793.942,"body":"sprinkle that across the whole"},{"startTime":1794.002,"endTime":1797.302,"body":"document saying whatever role"},{"startTime":1794.002,"endTime":1797.302,"body":"it is, insert your role here."},{"startTime":1797.582,"endTime":1799.892,"body":"If you're not professional"},{"startTime":1797.582,"endTime":1799.892,"body":"or willing to, to gain"},{"startTime":1799.892,"endTime":1801.872,"body":"those skills, et cetera,"},{"startTime":1799.892,"endTime":1801.872,"body":"you should step down."},{"startTime":1802.202,"endTime":1805.532,"body":"I feel like that whole, all of"},{"startTime":1802.202,"endTime":1805.532,"body":"those things are superfluous"},{"startTime":1805.562,"endTime":1808.832,"body":"because presumably you're"},{"startTime":1805.562,"endTime":1808.832,"body":"getting paid to do a job, right?"},{"startTime":1809.072,"endTime":1809.132,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":1809.192,"endTime":1811.292,"body":"You bring certain skills"},{"startTime":1809.192,"endTime":1811.292,"body":"to the table, and if you"},{"startTime":1811.292,"endTime":1812.552,"body":"don't, you can learn those."},{"startTime":1812.552,"endTime":1814.652,"body":"And if you're unwilling"},{"startTime":1812.552,"endTime":1814.652,"body":"to learn them, you'll find"},{"startTime":1814.652,"endTime":1816.212,"body":"yourself looking for work again."},{"startTime":1816.332,"endTime":1819.122,"body":"So I don't know how much"},{"startTime":1816.332,"endTime":1819.122,"body":"value that's really adding."},{"startTime":1819.122,"endTime":1819.422,"body":"Right?"},{"startTime":1819.452,"endTime":1822.152,"body":"on the scale to adding"},{"startTime":1819.452,"endTime":1822.152,"body":"value where like 10 is like"},{"startTime":1822.152,"endTime":1824.432,"body":"super valuable, something"},{"startTime":1822.152,"endTime":1824.432,"body":"you absolutely need and one"},{"startTime":1824.432,"endTime":1826.772,"body":"is like, Hey man, like I"},{"startTime":1824.432,"endTime":1826.772,"body":"could have skipped this and"},{"startTime":1826.772,"endTime":1827.642,"body":"saw a movie or whatever."},{"startTime":1827.642,"endTime":1829.802,"body":"Like, this is solidly a zero."},{"startTime":1829.812,"endTime":1831.732,"body":"What is the point of even"},{"startTime":1829.812,"endTime":1831.732,"body":"saying like, Hey man, you"},{"startTime":1831.732,"endTime":1833.592,"body":"should quit your job if"},{"startTime":1831.732,"endTime":1833.592,"body":"you don't want to do this."},{"startTime":1833.892,"endTime":1836.322,"body":"I feel like I'm beating it"},{"startTime":1833.892,"endTime":1836.322,"body":"up pretty hard right now."},{"startTime":1836.652,"endTime":1839.232,"body":"If I'm gonna take a step"},{"startTime":1836.652,"endTime":1839.232,"body":"back for a second and"},{"startTime":1839.232,"endTime":1840.552,"body":"really take a look at this."},{"startTime":1840.852,"endTime":1843.472,"body":"He's saying, if you don't wanna"},{"startTime":1840.852,"endTime":1843.472,"body":"play the game by these rules,"},{"startTime":1843.832,"endTime":1845.002,"body":"you shouldn't play the game."},{"startTime":1845.302,"endTime":1846.922,"body":"That's basically"},{"startTime":1845.302,"endTime":1846.922,"body":"what's going on here."},{"startTime":1847.352,"endTime":1851.252,"body":"and my counterpoint to that"},{"startTime":1847.352,"endTime":1851.252,"body":"is this is not your problem"},{"startTime":1851.252,"endTime":1854.192,"body":"with Scrum like the problem"},{"startTime":1851.252,"endTime":1854.192,"body":"with Scrum is like working"},{"startTime":1854.192,"endTime":1856.712,"body":"in these, deciding that"},{"startTime":1854.192,"endTime":1856.712,"body":"you're gonna scale something"},{"startTime":1856.712,"endTime":1858.122,"body":"that's failing already."},{"startTime":1858.212,"endTime":1858.452,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":1858.602,"endTime":1860.582,"body":"With all these managers"},{"startTime":1858.602,"endTime":1860.582,"body":"that are gonna tell you what"},{"startTime":1860.582,"endTime":1862.862,"body":"to do and like that you're"},{"startTime":1860.582,"endTime":1862.862,"body":"not changing the org co."},{"startTime":1863.012,"endTime":1864.782,"body":"The problem is not at"},{"startTime":1863.012,"endTime":1864.782,"body":"the Scrum team level."},{"startTime":1864.812,"endTime":1865.112,"body":"That's right."},{"startTime":1865.112,"endTime":1867.422,"body":"The problem is well above"},{"startTime":1865.112,"endTime":1867.422,"body":"the Scrum team level and"},{"startTime":1867.722,"endTime":1870.842,"body":"55 pages here doesn't"},{"startTime":1867.722,"endTime":1870.842,"body":"help you with any of that."},{"startTime":1870.842,"endTime":1873.542,"body":"And, this kind of , well,"},{"startTime":1870.842,"endTime":1873.542,"body":"if you don't wanna work more"},{"startTime":1873.542,"endTime":1876.572,"body":"than 40 hours, then maybe you"},{"startTime":1873.542,"endTime":1876.572,"body":"should throw in the towel and"},{"startTime":1876.572,"endTime":1878.252,"body":"let somebody who like, okay."},{"startTime":1878.252,"endTime":1878.822,"body":"All right, man."},{"startTime":1878.852,"endTime":1879.212,"body":"I know."},{"startTime":1879.212,"endTime":1879.782,"body":"I agree."},{"startTime":1879.782,"endTime":1882.392,"body":"Listen, that there's no"},{"startTime":1879.782,"endTime":1882.392,"body":"reference in this document"},{"startTime":1882.392,"endTime":1885.872,"body":"about one of the major"},{"startTime":1882.392,"endTime":1885.872,"body":"impediments of adopting"},{"startTime":1885.872,"endTime":1887.192,"body":"agility in general, right?"},{"startTime":1887.432,"endTime":1891.002,"body":"Which is the organizational"},{"startTime":1887.432,"endTime":1891.002,"body":"structure, the org structure."},{"startTime":1891.362,"endTime":1892.562,"body":"It's not mentioned here at all."},{"startTime":1892.832,"endTime":1894.212,"body":"Unless you can change that."},{"startTime":1894.572,"endTime":1897.152,"body":"It doesn't matter If you do"},{"startTime":1894.572,"endTime":1897.152,"body":"all of those other things,"},{"startTime":1897.152,"endTime":1899.042,"body":"they're not gonna work overall."},{"startTime":1899.072,"endTime":1899.282,"body":"Right."},{"startTime":1899.282,"endTime":1900.302,"body":"You won't have the impact."},{"startTime":1900.602,"endTime":1903.302,"body":"There's 18 references to"},{"startTime":1900.602,"endTime":1903.302,"body":"organizational in this document."},{"startTime":1903.302,"endTime":1904.712,"body":"We're gonna go through"},{"startTime":1903.302,"endTime":1904.712,"body":"every one of 'em right now."},{"startTime":1904.712,"endTime":1904.802,"body":"Sure."},{"startTime":1904.802,"endTime":1907.112,"body":"For anybody who might"},{"startTime":1904.802,"endTime":1907.112,"body":"ever read the comments."},{"startTime":1907.412,"endTime":1910.052,"body":"Now let me welcome you"},{"startTime":1907.412,"endTime":1910.052,"body":"to part of the Arguing"},{"startTime":1910.052,"endTime":1913.982,"body":"Agile podcast that we call"},{"startTime":1910.052,"endTime":1913.982,"body":"Brian's being Pedantic."},{"startTime":1914.372,"endTime":1916.982,"body":"And we're gonna go through"},{"startTime":1914.372,"endTime":1916.982,"body":"every reference to the word"},{"startTime":1917.012,"endTime":1918.602,"body":"organizational in this document."},{"startTime":1918.602,"endTime":1919.532,"body":"There are 18 of them."},{"startTime":1919.842,"endTime":1922.572,"body":"2000 years later."},{"startTime":1922.645,"endTime":1924.595,"body":"Anyway, I wanted to go"},{"startTime":1922.645,"endTime":1924.595,"body":"through every single one of"},{"startTime":1924.595,"endTime":1928.165,"body":"those and what you've what"},{"startTime":1924.595,"endTime":1928.165,"body":"you've uncovered is the fact"},{"startTime":1928.165,"endTime":1929.815,"body":"that they do not address."},{"startTime":1930.115,"endTime":1931.645,"body":"Org structures in this document."},{"startTime":1931.645,"endTime":1931.735,"body":"Right?"},{"startTime":1931.735,"endTime":1935.305,"body":"And that is one of the biggest"},{"startTime":1931.735,"endTime":1935.305,"body":"impediments to adopting agility."},{"startTime":1935.335,"endTime":1938.005,"body":"You know, what we discuss"},{"startTime":1935.335,"endTime":1938.005,"body":"on the arguing Agile podcast"},{"startTime":1938.005,"endTime":1940.345,"body":"though in in arguing agile"},{"startTime":1938.005,"endTime":1940.345,"body":"podcasts that you can go"},{"startTime":1940.345,"endTime":1941.875,"body":"search for org structures."},{"startTime":1941.875,"endTime":1942.325,"body":"That's right."},{"startTime":1942.535,"endTime":1945.115,"body":"Hey, quick, quick, while,"},{"startTime":1942.535,"endTime":1945.115,"body":"while the parents are away,"},{"startTime":1945.115,"endTime":1946.165,"body":"we'll save you some time."},{"startTime":1946.465,"endTime":1949.815,"body":"Oh, I know we can talk"},{"startTime":1946.465,"endTime":1949.815,"body":"about arguing Agile 1 99."},{"startTime":1949.815,"endTime":1952.545,"body":"This, that demings"},{"startTime":1949.815,"endTime":1952.545,"body":"profound knowledge for"},{"startTime":1952.545,"endTime":1954.195,"body":"transforming organizations."},{"startTime":1954.465,"endTime":1955.335,"body":"What else can we talk about?"},{"startTime":1955.335,"endTime":1957.595,"body":"We can talk about work"},{"startTime":1955.335,"endTime":1957.595,"body":"structure with stormy."},{"startTime":1957.595,"endTime":1957.805,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":1957.805,"endTime":1961.225,"body":"We can talk about arguing"},{"startTime":1957.805,"endTime":1961.225,"body":"Agile 90 or culture."},{"startTime":1961.685,"endTime":1963.665,"body":"We can talk about"},{"startTime":1961.685,"endTime":1963.665,"body":"self-organization"},{"startTime":1963.665,"endTime":1965.285,"body":"when self-organization"},{"startTime":1963.665,"endTime":1965.285,"body":"goes off the rails."},{"startTime":1965.285,"endTime":1966.725,"body":"So arguing 1 21."},{"startTime":1967.055,"endTime":1968.705,"body":"We can talk about arguing Agile."},{"startTime":1968.705,"endTime":1970.475,"body":"67 is one we, apologies."},{"startTime":1970.475,"endTime":1971.225,"body":"Teens apologies."},{"startTime":1971.225,"endTime":1971.435,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":1971.495,"endTime":1972.455,"body":"All of them."},{"startTime":1972.605,"endTime":1974.345,"body":"All of them being better."},{"startTime":1974.66,"endTime":1977.42,"body":"Then this reference"},{"startTime":1974.66,"endTime":1977.42,"body":"indeed in this document."},{"startTime":1977.42,"endTime":1982.64,"body":"So I, I please listen to any of"},{"startTime":1977.42,"endTime":1982.64,"body":"those of our podcasts and don't"},{"startTime":1982.64,"endTime":1984.65,"body":"go back beyond arguing Agile."},{"startTime":1984.95,"endTime":1985.19,"body":"Sorry."},{"startTime":1985.37,"endTime":1988.7,"body":"I was gonna say don't, don't go"},{"startTime":1985.37,"endTime":1988.7,"body":"before 67 before I was editing"},{"startTime":1988.9,"endTime":1991.48,"body":"So another thing they"},{"startTime":1988.9,"endTime":1991.48,"body":"incorporate in this document"},{"startTime":1991.48,"endTime":1993.88,"body":"is the Cynefin framework."},{"startTime":1994.18,"endTime":1994.45,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":1994.45,"endTime":1995.68,"body":"It's a Welsh word."},{"startTime":1995.98,"endTime":1997.18,"body":"Well, I'm done."},{"startTime":1997.48,"endTime":1999.99,"body":"But anyway, like they point"},{"startTime":1997.48,"endTime":1999.99,"body":"to this popularized by the"},{"startTime":1999.99,"endTime":2002.57,"body":"Harvard Business Review"},{"startTime":1999.99,"endTime":2002.57,"body":"article, A leaders framework"},{"startTime":2002.72,"endTime":2006.621,"body":"for decision making by Davis"},{"startTime":2002.72,"endTime":2006.621,"body":"Snowden and Mary Boone in 2007."},{"startTime":2006.921,"endTime":2007.101,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":2007.101,"endTime":2009.351,"body":"Another framework inside"},{"startTime":2007.101,"endTime":2009.351,"body":"of our framework, right?"},{"startTime":2009.691,"endTime":2013.591,"body":"Talking about complexity and"},{"startTime":2009.691,"endTime":2013.591,"body":"helping people understand the"},{"startTime":2013.591,"endTime":2014.971,"body":"different levels of complexity."},{"startTime":2015.021,"endTime":2018.951,"body":"They basically regurgitate"},{"startTime":2015.021,"endTime":2018.951,"body":"the entire framework in here."},{"startTime":2019.041,"endTime":2021.201,"body":"And I'm not going through it"},{"startTime":2019.041,"endTime":2021.201,"body":"because people can read this.,"},{"startTime":2021.331,"endTime":2025.051,"body":"All they had to do is replace"},{"startTime":2021.331,"endTime":2025.051,"body":"all of that diatribe in there"},{"startTime":2025.351,"endTime":2027.391,"body":"with just the coning framework."},{"startTime":2027.421,"endTime":2027.991,"body":"Diagram."},{"startTime":2027.996,"endTime":2029.556,"body":"Which is a two by two, right?"},{"startTime":2029.556,"endTime":2032.746,"body":"Just tells you what's chaos,"},{"startTime":2029.556,"endTime":2032.746,"body":"what's what, and, and it"},{"startTime":2032.746,"endTime":2035.806,"body":"just helps you organize which"},{"startTime":2032.746,"endTime":2035.806,"body":"approach you're going to take"},{"startTime":2035.866,"endTime":2038.026,"body":"based on the circumstance"},{"startTime":2035.866,"endTime":2038.026,"body":"you find yourself in."},{"startTime":2038.116,"endTime":2038.416,"body":"Right?"},{"startTime":2038.806,"endTime":2042.076,"body":"I wish they had done that, and"},{"startTime":2038.806,"endTime":2042.076,"body":"it would've spoken volumes more"},{"startTime":2042.076,"endTime":2044.176,"body":"than reading all of those words."},{"startTime":2044.656,"endTime":2047.526,"body":"I'm hoping that Dave agrees"},{"startTime":2044.656,"endTime":2047.526,"body":"with me, Dave Snowden, who's"},{"startTime":2047.526,"endTime":2049.286,"body":"the, I guess the author of this,"},{"startTime":2049.436,"endTime":2049.597,"body":"There you go."},{"startTime":2049.602,"endTime":2050.262,"body":"people can see that."},{"startTime":2050.682,"endTime":2052.032,"body":"So it's a two by two."},{"startTime":2052.302,"endTime":2053.922,"body":"The top left is complex."},{"startTime":2054.132,"endTime":2055.992,"body":"The top right is complicated."},{"startTime":2055.992,"endTime":2059.412,"body":"The bottom left is chaotic, and"},{"startTime":2055.992,"endTime":2059.412,"body":"the bottom right is obvious."},{"startTime":2059.412,"endTime":2061.932,"body":"It's a two by two, but there's"},{"startTime":2059.412,"endTime":2061.932,"body":"an intersection of all of"},{"startTime":2061.932,"endTime":2063.402,"body":"those quadrants in the middle."},{"startTime":2063.502,"endTime":2065.152,"body":"Where you reach disorder."},{"startTime":2065.242,"endTime":2069.282,"body":"Okay so net net, the, the,"},{"startTime":2065.242,"endTime":2069.282,"body":"the thesis here is if you're"},{"startTime":2069.282,"endTime":2070.812,"body":"in the complex quadrant."},{"startTime":2070.902,"endTime":2073.312,"body":"Mm-hmm you are probing,"},{"startTime":2070.902,"endTime":2073.312,"body":"sensing, and responding."},{"startTime":2073.317,"endTime":2073.457,"body":"Mm-hmm."},{"startTime":2073.537,"endTime":2076.432,"body":"Right on that diagram"},{"startTime":2073.537,"endTime":2076.432,"body":"and so on and so forth."},{"startTime":2076.432,"endTime":2079.312,"body":"For all of those quadrants,"},{"startTime":2076.432,"endTime":2079.312,"body":"there is a, there is a"},{"startTime":2079.312,"endTime":2081.592,"body":"suggestion on how you"},{"startTime":2079.312,"endTime":2081.592,"body":"should handle that."},{"startTime":2081.592,"endTime":2085.022,"body":"Mm-hmm and he's got an"},{"startTime":2081.592,"endTime":2085.022,"body":"out, so to speak, in the"},{"startTime":2085.022,"endTime":2088.532,"body":"middle, which is where all"},{"startTime":2085.022,"endTime":2088.532,"body":"of the quadrants intersect,"},{"startTime":2088.592,"endTime":2090.332,"body":"where you're in chaos."},{"startTime":2090.662,"endTime":2092.792,"body":"And when you're in chaos,"},{"startTime":2090.662,"endTime":2092.792,"body":"what should you do?"},{"startTime":2093.062,"endTime":2093.482,"body":"Right."},{"startTime":2093.932,"endTime":2096.842,"body":"I don't think there"},{"startTime":2093.932,"endTime":2096.842,"body":"is a suggestion on"},{"startTime":2096.902,"endTime":2098.102,"body":"how you should behave."},{"startTime":2098.432,"endTime":2101.162,"body":"The only thing that I could"},{"startTime":2098.432,"endTime":2101.162,"body":"surmise from the little reading"},{"startTime":2101.162,"endTime":2104.282,"body":"that I've done is try and get"},{"startTime":2101.162,"endTime":2104.282,"body":"yourself in one of the quadrants"},{"startTime":2104.282,"endTime":2108.282,"body":"if you're in that space, so you"},{"startTime":2104.282,"endTime":2108.282,"body":"know what to do in a known area,"},{"startTime":2108.282,"endTime":2112.542,"body":"rather than this abyss where"},{"startTime":2108.282,"endTime":2112.542,"body":"everything's in chaos and you"},{"startTime":2112.542,"endTime":2113.982,"body":"really have nothing to go on."},{"startTime":2114.032,"endTime":2117.062,"body":"I'm gonna go out on a"},{"startTime":2114.032,"endTime":2117.062,"body":"limb and say, I hate this"},{"startTime":2117.062,"endTime":2119.282,"body":"inclusion and the reason,"},{"startTime":2117.062,"endTime":2119.282,"body":"let me give you a reason"},{"startTime":2119.282,"endTime":2120.212,"body":"before you push back on me."},{"startTime":2120.212,"endTime":2120.482,"body":"All right?"},{"startTime":2120.542,"endTime":2120.752,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":2121.062,"endTime":2123.162,"body":"I hate this inclusion"},{"startTime":2121.062,"endTime":2123.162,"body":"because this is like"},{"startTime":2123.192,"endTime":2124.842,"body":"academic theorizing."},{"startTime":2125.042,"endTime":2126.662,"body":"I understand the reason"},{"startTime":2125.042,"endTime":2126.662,"body":"for the framework."},{"startTime":2126.872,"endTime":2127.082,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":2127.382,"endTime":2129.742,"body":"I understand what it's trying"},{"startTime":2127.382,"endTime":2129.742,"body":"to do, but as a product"},{"startTime":2129.742,"endTime":2130.912,"body":"manager, I'm trying to get."},{"startTime":2131.212,"endTime":2135.652,"body":"Leaders in the organization"},{"startTime":2131.212,"endTime":2135.652,"body":"to just look for evidence"},{"startTime":2135.652,"endTime":2137.512,"body":"that their idea is"},{"startTime":2135.652,"endTime":2137.512,"body":"a good idea or not."},{"startTime":2137.512,"endTime":2140.962,"body":"Like I, this is way"},{"startTime":2137.512,"endTime":2140.962,"body":"past that, you know?"},{"startTime":2140.962,"endTime":2141.472,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":2141.472,"endTime":2141.473,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":2141.582,"endTime":2144.912,"body":"So it's interesting to hear you"},{"startTime":2141.582,"endTime":2144.912,"body":"say that, A, as a person who's"},{"startTime":2144.912,"endTime":2148.842,"body":"interested in process and how"},{"startTime":2144.912,"endTime":2148.842,"body":"organizations navigate their way"},{"startTime":2148.842,"endTime":2150.582,"body":"through different environments."},{"startTime":2150.882,"endTime":2153.112,"body":"I'm interested in"},{"startTime":2150.882,"endTime":2153.112,"body":"the canon framework."},{"startTime":2153.472,"endTime":2156.722,"body":"I do think there's some"},{"startTime":2153.472,"endTime":2156.722,"body":"value in exploring it, but"},{"startTime":2157.142,"endTime":2158.852,"body":"absolutely not needed as such."},{"startTime":2158.912,"endTime":2159.062,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":2159.242,"endTime":2163.042,"body":"And on a scale of just"},{"startTime":2159.242,"endTime":2163.042,"body":"build it to needs a PhD"},{"startTime":2163.042,"endTime":2164.302,"body":"in systems theory, right?"},{"startTime":2164.332,"endTime":2167.212,"body":"How much theoretical framework"},{"startTime":2164.332,"endTime":2167.212,"body":"do practitioners need?"},{"startTime":2167.602,"endTime":2169.882,"body":"At some point you say, look, we"},{"startTime":2167.602,"endTime":2169.882,"body":"don't know what we don't know."},{"startTime":2170.062,"endTime":2173.722,"body":"Can we just do some exploration"},{"startTime":2170.062,"endTime":2173.722,"body":"to find out and move on rather"},{"startTime":2173.722,"endTime":2177.592,"body":"than theorize on these things"},{"startTime":2173.722,"endTime":2177.592,"body":"and say, well, are we really in"},{"startTime":2177.592,"endTime":2179.002,"body":"this quadrant or that quadrant?"},{"startTime":2179.002,"endTime":2181.072,"body":"Because you're gonna get 10"},{"startTime":2179.002,"endTime":2181.072,"body":"different answers based on,"},{"startTime":2181.132,"endTime":2183.352,"body":"I mean, you five people you"},{"startTime":2181.132,"endTime":2183.352,"body":"ask, you're also talking to"},{"startTime":2183.352,"endTime":2184.772,"body":"the guy that loves Deming."},{"startTime":2184.972,"endTime":2186.447,"body":"And we did two podcasts, right?"},{"startTime":2186.452,"endTime":2186.712,"body":"Right."},{"startTime":2186.712,"endTime":2190.342,"body":"We did two podcasts on two"},{"startTime":2186.712,"endTime":2190.342,"body":"different Deming books and,"},{"startTime":2190.342,"endTime":2192.802,"body":"and we took the time to,"},{"startTime":2190.342,"endTime":2192.802,"body":"do you know what I mean?"},{"startTime":2192.802,"endTime":2193.247,"body":"To, to yeah."},{"startTime":2193.252,"endTime":2194.782,"body":"To justify doing"},{"startTime":2193.252,"endTime":2194.782,"body":"End Deming podcast."},{"startTime":2194.782,"endTime":2197.552,"body":"So like, I, like I understand"},{"startTime":2194.782,"endTime":2197.552,"body":"theory of a systems and"},{"startTime":2197.552,"endTime":2199.112,"body":"also systems thinking."},{"startTime":2199.412,"endTime":2200.792,"body":"And this is not that."},{"startTime":2201.117,"endTime":2201.872,"body":"It, it isn't."},{"startTime":2201.902,"endTime":2202.442,"body":"I agree."},{"startTime":2202.472,"endTime":2206.872,"body":"Also from, from what what"},{"startTime":2202.472,"endTime":2206.872,"body":"I surmise, most teams don't"},{"startTime":2206.872,"endTime":2210.322,"body":"have the chops to understand"},{"startTime":2206.872,"endTime":2210.322,"body":"and apply complexity"},{"startTime":2210.322,"endTime":2211.192,"body":"theory to begin with."},{"startTime":2211.522,"endTime":2212.093,"body":"Right, right, right."},{"startTime":2212.332,"endTime":2213.652,"body":"So take this forward."},{"startTime":2213.652,"endTime":2215.332,"body":"It is, I mean, they"},{"startTime":2213.652,"endTime":2215.332,"body":"added it in there."},{"startTime":2215.332,"endTime":2216.172,"body":"Did they need to?"},{"startTime":2216.292,"endTime":2216.922,"body":"Probably not."},{"startTime":2217.102,"endTime":2217.952,"body":"Yeah it's there."},{"startTime":2217.952,"endTime":2220.172,"body":"I'd rather have that, that"},{"startTime":2217.952,"endTime":2220.172,"body":"diagram of like, this is"},{"startTime":2220.172,"endTime":2222.752,"body":"what all y'all's boards look"},{"startTime":2220.172,"endTime":2222.752,"body":"like and like that this is"},{"startTime":2222.872,"endTime":2225.722,"body":"what they should look again,"},{"startTime":2222.872,"endTime":2225.722,"body":"that diagram is value."},{"startTime":2225.722,"endTime":2227.042,"body":"Because this whole"},{"startTime":2225.722,"endTime":2227.042,"body":"section takes up."},{"startTime":2227.402,"endTime":2228.662,"body":"A page or two by itself."},{"startTime":2228.692,"endTime":2229.532,"body":"Oh, it's more than that."},{"startTime":2229.537,"endTime":2231.932,"body":"I, I would trade this out for"},{"startTime":2229.537,"endTime":2231.932,"body":"like a page of what y'all's"},{"startTime":2231.932,"endTime":2234.002,"body":"boards probably look like."},{"startTime":2234.392,"endTime":2236.552,"body":"And this would be"},{"startTime":2234.392,"endTime":2236.552,"body":"a good addition."},{"startTime":2236.612,"endTime":2236.822,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":2236.912,"endTime":2238.987,"body":"That you could really I,"},{"startTime":2236.912,"endTime":2238.987,"body":"I mean, I, I don't know."},{"startTime":2238.987,"endTime":2239.947,"body":"It's two diagrams."},{"startTime":2239.947,"endTime":2242.047,"body":"Here's your, what your board"},{"startTime":2239.947,"endTime":2242.047,"body":"probably looks like here."},{"startTime":2242.047,"endTime":2244.357,"body":"Here's what you might"},{"startTime":2242.047,"endTime":2244.357,"body":"benefit from, which is that"},{"startTime":2244.357,"endTime":2247.327,"body":"suggested extra lane in"},{"startTime":2244.357,"endTime":2247.327,"body":"there, or a column rather."},{"startTime":2247.597,"endTime":2249.817,"body":"I mean also you're"},{"startTime":2247.597,"endTime":2249.817,"body":"handing this over."},{"startTime":2250.117,"endTime":2253.477,"body":"A lot of scrum teams"},{"startTime":2250.117,"endTime":2253.477,"body":"don't have a scrum master."},{"startTime":2253.567,"endTime":2255.997,"body":"They're just asking the"},{"startTime":2253.567,"endTime":2255.997,"body":"developer to play the role"},{"startTime":2256.447,"endTime":2257.497,"body":"part-time or whatever."},{"startTime":2257.797,"endTime":2261.157,"body":"And the developer is gonna bring"},{"startTime":2257.797,"endTime":2261.157,"body":"up this theoretical framework."},{"startTime":2261.507,"endTime":2264.717,"body":"It's not gonna happen"},{"startTime":2261.507,"endTime":2264.717,"body":"like it's 55 pages."},{"startTime":2264.967,"endTime":2266.827,"body":"They theoretically"},{"startTime":2264.967,"endTime":2266.827,"body":"threw everything in the"},{"startTime":2266.827,"endTime":2267.937,"body":"kitchen sink in here."},{"startTime":2267.997,"endTime":2269.347,"body":"They did that They"},{"startTime":2267.997,"endTime":2269.347,"body":"could think of."},{"startTime":2269.647,"endTime":2270.397,"body":"I just don't know"},{"startTime":2270.447,"endTime":2272.857,"body":"speaking of overcomplicating,"},{"startTime":2270.447,"endTime":2272.857,"body":"let's talk about their,"},{"startTime":2272.887,"endTime":2275.857,"body":"their division between"},{"startTime":2272.887,"endTime":2275.857,"body":"product thinking versus"},{"startTime":2275.857,"endTime":2276.967,"body":"project thinking."},{"startTime":2276.967,"endTime":2278.707,"body":"This should be an easy"},{"startTime":2276.967,"endTime":2278.707,"body":"win this category."},{"startTime":2278.977,"endTime":2279.187,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":2279.187,"endTime":2281.197,"body":"And this is, again, not"},{"startTime":2279.187,"endTime":2281.197,"body":"a new concept, right?"},{"startTime":2281.197,"endTime":2282.607,"body":"That they've"},{"startTime":2281.197,"endTime":2282.607,"body":"introduced here, right?"},{"startTime":2282.607,"endTime":2282.608,"body":"Right."},{"startTime":2282.877,"endTime":2287.027,"body":"Everyone's known about this or"},{"startTime":2282.877,"endTime":2287.027,"body":"they should have, so I'm showing"},{"startTime":2287.027,"endTime":2287.987,"body":"on the screen what I'm reading."},{"startTime":2287.987,"endTime":2291.677,"body":"In the product thinking"},{"startTime":2287.987,"endTime":2291.677,"body":"section, it says people"},{"startTime":2291.677,"endTime":2295.367,"body":"consume products including"},{"startTime":2291.677,"endTime":2295.367,"body":"services, not projects, people"},{"startTime":2295.367,"endTime":2298.427,"body":"consume products or services."},{"startTime":2298.427,"endTime":2299.417,"body":"Mm-hmm."},{"startTime":2299.447,"endTime":2302.327,"body":"A product is a conduit to"},{"startTime":2299.447,"endTime":2302.327,"body":"deliver value, balancing"},{"startTime":2302.327,"endTime":2303.677,"body":"the short and long term."},{"startTime":2304.007,"endTime":2307.367,"body":"This is why Scrum has a product"},{"startTime":2304.007,"endTime":2307.367,"body":"owner, not a project owner."},{"startTime":2307.717,"endTime":2308.137,"body":"Oh boy."},{"startTime":2308.137,"endTime":2309.607,"body":"A bunch of people, like"},{"startTime":2312.037,"endTime":2313.357,"body":"I was gonna say, we lost PMs."},{"startTime":2313.837,"endTime":2315.097,"body":"Now project managers"},{"startTime":2315.107,"endTime":2317.867,"body":"products are long-term and"},{"startTime":2315.107,"endTime":2317.867,"body":"need to be taken care of"},{"startTime":2317.907,"endTime":2321.447,"body":"for their entire existence,"},{"startTime":2317.907,"endTime":2321.447,"body":"whereas project is time"},{"startTime":2321.447,"endTime":2324.957,"body":"box and often leaves an"},{"startTime":2321.447,"endTime":2324.957,"body":"orphaned product behind"},{"startTime":2324.957,"endTime":2326.967,"body":"once a project is completed."},{"startTime":2327.397,"endTime":2330.127,"body":"I mean, I like, I feel this was"},{"startTime":2327.397,"endTime":2330.127,"body":"a good inclusion to be honest."},{"startTime":2330.127,"endTime":2332.707,"body":"I think so too, because it"},{"startTime":2330.127,"endTime":2332.707,"body":"talks about how the product"},{"startTime":2332.707,"endTime":2337.177,"body":"lifecycle is way beyond"},{"startTime":2332.707,"endTime":2337.177,"body":"just a project lifecycle."},{"startTime":2337.237,"endTime":2337.447,"body":"Yes."},{"startTime":2337.547,"endTime":2339.437,"body":"I think they should have"},{"startTime":2337.547,"endTime":2339.437,"body":"led with, led with this."},{"startTime":2339.497,"endTime":2341.297,"body":"I think it should, this should"},{"startTime":2339.497,"endTime":2341.297,"body":"have been the opening paragraph."},{"startTime":2341.297,"endTime":2344.747,"body":"It's like, all y'all thinking"},{"startTime":2341.297,"endTime":2344.747,"body":"you can do this stuff, scrum."},{"startTime":2344.837,"endTime":2348.557,"body":"What we're talking about, what"},{"startTime":2344.837,"endTime":2348.557,"body":"we built as projects, right?"},{"startTime":2348.617,"endTime":2349.337,"body":"Y'all are wrong."},{"startTime":2349.547,"endTime":2352.342,"body":"And, and that's, well especially"},{"startTime":2349.547,"endTime":2352.342,"body":"given the, the definition of"},{"startTime":2352.342,"endTime":2355.612,"body":"success for projects is way"},{"startTime":2352.342,"endTime":2355.612,"body":"different than definition of"},{"startTime":2355.612,"endTime":2357.592,"body":"success for products, right?"},{"startTime":2357.642,"endTime":2360.312,"body":"So product, let's talk about"},{"startTime":2357.642,"endTime":2360.312,"body":"sustainable products, right?"},{"startTime":2360.312,"endTime":2360.402,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":2360.452,"endTime":2361.772,"body":"they generate value"},{"startTime":2360.452,"endTime":2361.772,"body":"for the users."},{"startTime":2361.922,"endTime":2362.942,"body":"The users consume them."},{"startTime":2363.092,"endTime":2365.252,"body":"You can pivot based"},{"startTime":2363.092,"endTime":2365.252,"body":"on the market need."},{"startTime":2365.402,"endTime":2367.382,"body":"You can pivot based on"},{"startTime":2365.402,"endTime":2367.382,"body":"what users are telling you."},{"startTime":2367.572,"endTime":2370.422,"body":"You can change direction"},{"startTime":2367.572,"endTime":2370.422,"body":"that they're not fixed scope."},{"startTime":2370.422,"endTime":2372.732,"body":"Fixed duration, fixed scope,"},{"startTime":2370.422,"endTime":2372.732,"body":". Fixed timeline, they align"},{"startTime":2372.732,"endTime":2373.632,"body":"with your business model."},{"startTime":2373.632,"endTime":2375.252,"body":"They can change when your"},{"startTime":2373.632,"endTime":2375.252,"body":"business model, if you have"},{"startTime":2375.252,"endTime":2378.612,"body":"a strategy pivot for your"},{"startTime":2375.252,"endTime":2378.612,"body":"business, they can change."},{"startTime":2378.862,"endTime":2380.902,"body":"You cut projects when"},{"startTime":2378.862,"endTime":2380.902,"body":"this stuff happens."},{"startTime":2380.982,"endTime":2382.632,"body":"Oh, This project is"},{"startTime":2380.982,"endTime":2382.632,"body":"running too long."},{"startTime":2382.842,"endTime":2383.862,"body":"Cut the funding off."},{"startTime":2383.922,"endTime":2384.372,"body":"Cut it off."},{"startTime":2384.372,"endTime":2386.232,"body":"I do like this"},{"startTime":2384.372,"endTime":2386.232,"body":"inclusion in here."},{"startTime":2386.232,"endTime":2388.182,"body":"I think they could have"},{"startTime":2386.232,"endTime":2388.182,"body":"spent more time here than"},{"startTime":2388.182,"endTime":2389.682,"body":"on the cynefin framework."},{"startTime":2389.892,"endTime":2390.042,"body":"Right?"},{"startTime":2390.042,"endTime":2390.402,"body":"Oh boy."},{"startTime":2390.492,"endTime":2391.032,"body":"Possibly."},{"startTime":2391.062,"endTime":2391.362,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":2391.542,"endTime":2395.022,"body":"But you know, the, the against"},{"startTime":2391.542,"endTime":2395.022,"body":"on this is, well, at least"},{"startTime":2395.022,"endTime":2397.872,"body":"with the project, we know how"},{"startTime":2395.022,"endTime":2397.872,"body":"much money we have to spend."},{"startTime":2397.872,"endTime":2398.112,"body":"Sure."},{"startTime":2398.352,"endTime":2400.992,"body":"We know roughly by"},{"startTime":2398.352,"endTime":2400.992,"body":"when we should be done."},{"startTime":2400.997,"endTime":2404.352,"body":"Mm-hmm whereas if you just"},{"startTime":2400.997,"endTime":2404.352,"body":"think about building a product"},{"startTime":2404.352,"endTime":2406.302,"body":"instead, we're gonna keep going."},{"startTime":2406.302,"endTime":2407.502,"body":"We don't know when"},{"startTime":2406.302,"endTime":2407.502,"body":"we'll be done."},{"startTime":2407.532,"endTime":2407.682,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":2407.902,"endTime":2409.252,"body":"We don't know how"},{"startTime":2407.902,"endTime":2409.252,"body":"much money we have."},{"startTime":2409.252,"endTime":2411.052,"body":"Keep going back to the"},{"startTime":2409.252,"endTime":2411.052,"body":"well for more money."},{"startTime":2411.112,"endTime":2411.262,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":2411.382,"endTime":2413.772,"body":"And end up with what they"},{"startTime":2411.382,"endTime":2413.772,"body":"call product theater."},{"startTime":2413.832,"endTime":2416.352,"body":"Well, I mean, that's what Marty"},{"startTime":2413.832,"endTime":2416.352,"body":"Cagan calls product theater."},{"startTime":2416.352,"endTime":2419.187,"body":"Like in you, you the thinking"},{"startTime":2416.352,"endTime":2419.187,"body":"and also the thinking"},{"startTime":2419.277,"endTime":2423.567,"body":"that inside of a product"},{"startTime":2419.277,"endTime":2423.567,"body":"is just multiple projects"},{"startTime":2423.567,"endTime":2424.617,"body":"back to back to back."},{"startTime":2425.097,"endTime":2427.947,"body":"And then the, that, that"},{"startTime":2425.097,"endTime":2427.947,"body":"thinking into like, oh, well"},{"startTime":2427.947,"endTime":2430.812,"body":"the Scrum team is just like"},{"startTime":2427.947,"endTime":2430.812,"body":"a. Project delivery team"},{"startTime":2431.052,"endTime":2434.802,"body":"that delivers micro projects"},{"startTime":2431.052,"endTime":2434.802,"body":"into whatever, like timeframe"},{"startTime":2434.862,"endTime":2435.912,"body":"buckets that are cut up."},{"startTime":2435.912,"endTime":2439.272,"body":"Like even that is like"},{"startTime":2435.912,"endTime":2439.272,"body":"you've already failed"},{"startTime":2439.272,"endTime":2440.382,"body":"when you're Absolutely."},{"startTime":2440.532,"endTime":2442.152,"body":"It introduces a linearity right."},{"startTime":2442.437,"endTime":2445.017,"body":"Which is not true in real life"},{"startTime":2442.437,"endTime":2445.017,"body":"'cause you're always going back"},{"startTime":2445.017,"endTime":2447.147,"body":"and forth, so Yeah, absolutely."},{"startTime":2447.457,"endTime":2452.077,"body":"So fund, fund the product"},{"startTime":2447.457,"endTime":2452.077,"body":"and the product teams"},{"startTime":2452.377,"endTime":2453.367,"body":"don't fund projects."},{"startTime":2453.577,"endTime":2453.788,"body":"Right, right."},{"startTime":2454.117,"endTime":2455.437,"body":"The, the funding mechanism."},{"startTime":2455.777,"endTime":2458.147,"body":"and in fact, in the other"},{"startTime":2455.777,"endTime":2458.147,"body":"that we already talked, we"},{"startTime":2458.147,"endTime":2460.007,"body":"already finished talking"},{"startTime":2458.147,"endTime":2460.007,"body":"about that category."},{"startTime":2460.007,"endTime":2462.587,"body":"We was talking about the"},{"startTime":2460.007,"endTime":2462.587,"body":"supporters of your Scrum team"},{"startTime":2462.587,"endTime":2463.997,"body":"being financed, stuff like that."},{"startTime":2464.427,"endTime":2466.587,"body":"I think they missed an"},{"startTime":2464.427,"endTime":2466.587,"body":"opportunity to say like,"},{"startTime":2466.767,"endTime":2469.587,"body":"well, your finance person that"},{"startTime":2466.767,"endTime":2469.587,"body":"supports your product team"},{"startTime":2469.887,"endTime":2471.117,"body":"should be part of your team."},{"startTime":2471.207,"endTime":2472.527,"body":"Now maybe they don't"},{"startTime":2471.207,"endTime":2472.527,"body":"have anything to do."},{"startTime":2472.767,"endTime":2473.967,"body":"Sprint over Sprint over sprint."},{"startTime":2474.127,"endTime":2476.047,"body":"But they can come in"},{"startTime":2474.127,"endTime":2476.047,"body":"and go as they need to."},{"startTime":2476.052,"endTime":2479.252,"body":"Maybe you only need them like"},{"startTime":2476.052,"endTime":2479.252,"body":"twice a year but when they"},{"startTime":2479.282,"endTime":2482.522,"body":"come in, they need to explain"},{"startTime":2479.282,"endTime":2482.522,"body":"to the team how finance works"},{"startTime":2482.522,"endTime":2486.642,"body":"and explain to the team why"},{"startTime":2482.522,"endTime":2486.642,"body":"things are wor oh here's your"},{"startTime":2486.642,"endTime":2488.862,"body":"funding in the last fiscal year."},{"startTime":2489.132,"endTime":2490.872,"body":"I mean, you definitely need"},{"startTime":2489.132,"endTime":2490.872,"body":"'em once a year when the"},{"startTime":2490.872,"endTime":2492.012,"body":"fiscal year rolls over."},{"startTime":2492.202,"endTime":2494.002,"body":"It's probably a good idea"},{"startTime":2492.202,"endTime":2494.002,"body":"to have a more frequent"},{"startTime":2494.002,"endTime":2496.072,"body":"than that, though, like"},{"startTime":2494.002,"endTime":2496.072,"body":"maybe every quarter to say,"},{"startTime":2496.402,"endTime":2499.322,"body":"here's how we're metering"},{"startTime":2496.402,"endTime":2499.322,"body":"against our, our march right."},{"startTime":2499.327,"endTime":2502.127,"body":"You could extend the same"},{"startTime":2499.327,"endTime":2502.127,"body":"argument to other allied"},{"startTime":2502.127,"endTime":2503.777,"body":"domains like hr, for instance."},{"startTime":2503.827,"endTime":2504.097,"body":"Right."},{"startTime":2504.097,"endTime":2504.607,"body":"As you're right."},{"startTime":2504.607,"endTime":2506.617,"body":"Sizing your team and you're"},{"startTime":2504.607,"endTime":2506.617,"body":"constantly doing that."},{"startTime":2506.622,"endTime":2509.622,"body":"well, definitely when we have"},{"startTime":2506.622,"endTime":2509.622,"body":"headcount spots that are open."},{"startTime":2509.762,"endTime":2510.302,"body":"Or not open."},{"startTime":2510.602,"endTime":2511.622,"body":"Nobody got fired."},{"startTime":2511.622,"endTime":2514.042,"body":"Nobody's being replaced,"},{"startTime":2511.622,"endTime":2514.042,"body":"nobody's getting hired . but the"},{"startTime":2514.042,"endTime":2517.552,"body":"moment that one of those spots"},{"startTime":2514.042,"endTime":2517.552,"body":"is vacant on the team, yeah."},{"startTime":2517.852,"endTime":2520.612,"body":"That person is now a regular"},{"startTime":2517.852,"endTime":2520.612,"body":"part of the team for as long"},{"startTime":2520.612,"endTime":2523.252,"body":"as that spot is open, until"},{"startTime":2520.612,"endTime":2523.252,"body":"that spot gets taken away from"},{"startTime":2523.252,"endTime":2526.222,"body":"the team, or until that spot"},{"startTime":2523.252,"endTime":2526.222,"body":"gets filled by a new hire."},{"startTime":2526.412,"endTime":2526.472,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":2526.622,"endTime":2529.352,"body":"Like that person, that person"},{"startTime":2526.622,"endTime":2529.352,"body":"should be part of the team."},{"startTime":2529.652,"endTime":2531.302,"body":"And in this document,"},{"startTime":2529.652,"endTime":2531.302,"body":"they don't, they don't"},{"startTime":2531.392,"endTime":2535.952,"body":"make that bold claim that"},{"startTime":2531.392,"endTime":2535.952,"body":"like these supporters."},{"startTime":2536.252,"endTime":2538.712,"body":"Are team members, they"},{"startTime":2536.252,"endTime":2538.712,"body":"don't even allude to that."},{"startTime":2538.712,"endTime":2540.002,"body":"And that's a miss, I think."},{"startTime":2540.002,"endTime":2542.162,"body":"Well, they make up a new, they"},{"startTime":2540.002,"endTime":2542.162,"body":"make up a new role rather."},{"startTime":2542.162,"endTime":2542.222,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":2542.222,"endTime":2543.002,"body":"But that's about it."},{"startTime":2543.002,"endTime":2543.212,"body":"Right?"},{"startTime":2543.212,"endTime":2546.032,"body":"They don't say how they should"},{"startTime":2543.212,"endTime":2546.032,"body":"be involved in the team."},{"startTime":2546.087,"endTime":2548.817,"body":"When you're at a startup,"},{"startTime":2546.087,"endTime":2548.817,"body":"those people really are"},{"startTime":2548.817,"endTime":2551.547,"body":"team members for as long"},{"startTime":2548.817,"endTime":2551.547,"body":"as you have that role open."},{"startTime":2551.597,"endTime":2551.717,"body":"Sure."},{"startTime":2551.717,"endTime":2554.507,"body":"For as long as you have finance"},{"startTime":2551.717,"endTime":2554.507,"body":"questions, those people need"},{"startTime":2554.507,"endTime":2555.827,"body":"to be in constant contact."},{"startTime":2555.877,"endTime":2559.267,"body":"Maybe you have to create ad"},{"startTime":2555.877,"endTime":2559.267,"body":"hoc meetings because they're"},{"startTime":2559.267,"endTime":2562.857,"body":"not just gonna show up every"},{"startTime":2559.267,"endTime":2562.857,"body":"day . How about a better way"},{"startTime":2562.857,"endTime":2565.677,"body":"of working would be to put"},{"startTime":2562.857,"endTime":2565.677,"body":"your arms around the whole"},{"startTime":2565.677,"endTime":2566.457,"body":"ownership of the problem."},{"startTime":2566.457,"endTime":2568.147,"body":"Be like, Hey, we need your help."},{"startTime":2568.447,"endTime":2569.797,"body":"Please join our standups."},{"startTime":2570.037,"endTime":2571.177,"body":"Maybe we can help you."},{"startTime":2571.337,"endTime":2573.587,"body":"You're not getting people"},{"startTime":2571.337,"endTime":2573.587,"body":"applying for the position."},{"startTime":2573.587,"endTime":2574.967,"body":"Maybe we can tweak the resume."},{"startTime":2575.127,"endTime":2577.047,"body":"We're not getting the"},{"startTime":2575.127,"endTime":2577.047,"body":"quality candidates."},{"startTime":2577.047,"endTime":2578.787,"body":"Maybe everyone on the team can"},{"startTime":2577.047,"endTime":2578.787,"body":"reach out to people they've"},{"startTime":2578.787,"endTime":2579.507,"body":"worked with or whatever."},{"startTime":2579.987,"endTime":2583.947,"body":"There are things that the team"},{"startTime":2579.987,"endTime":2583.947,"body":"can do that you, by yourself as"},{"startTime":2583.947,"endTime":2588.117,"body":"a recruiter, finance, whatever,"},{"startTime":2583.947,"endTime":2588.117,"body":"are limited when you're"},{"startTime":2588.117,"endTime":2589.587,"body":"leveraging the whole team."},{"startTime":2589.637,"endTime":2591.467,"body":"So that like, there's a"},{"startTime":2589.637,"endTime":2591.467,"body":"failing in here to be like,"},{"startTime":2591.467,"endTime":2593.267,"body":"Hey, scrum really does work."},{"startTime":2593.627,"endTime":2595.157,"body":"I mean, it really"},{"startTime":2593.627,"endTime":2595.157,"body":"does work, right?"},{"startTime":2595.187,"endTime":2595.277,"body":"Mm-hmm."},{"startTime":2595.517,"endTime":2597.437,"body":"Scrum really does work, but"},{"startTime":2595.517,"endTime":2597.437,"body":"when you're trying to put"},{"startTime":2597.437,"endTime":2600.477,"body":"all these guardrails, silos,"},{"startTime":2597.437,"endTime":2600.477,"body":"all that kind of stuff, like"},{"startTime":2600.477,"endTime":2603.447,"body":"you're really chipping away"},{"startTime":2600.477,"endTime":2603.447,"body":"at what makes Scrum work."},{"startTime":2603.637,"endTime":2605.547,"body":"that should have been"},{"startTime":2603.637,"endTime":2605.547,"body":"the executive overview,"},{"startTime":2605.647,"endTime":2606.337,"body":"of this document."},{"startTime":2606.337,"endTime":2608.237,"body":"You should have been like,"},{"startTime":2606.337,"endTime":2608.237,"body":"Hey, , there is no executive"},{"startTime":2608.237,"endTime":2611.717,"body":"overview that says here's a one"},{"startTime":2608.237,"endTime":2611.717,"body":"page summary of the 50 pages."},{"startTime":2611.717,"endTime":2612.317,"body":"50 plus."},{"startTime":2612.322,"endTime":2613.397,"body":"I mean, I shouldn't"},{"startTime":2612.322,"endTime":2613.397,"body":"have to tell."},{"startTime":2613.397,"endTime":2615.317,"body":"That's not, I shouldn't have"},{"startTime":2613.397,"endTime":2615.317,"body":"to tell the crew that wrote"},{"startTime":2615.317,"endTime":2618.827,"body":"this, that executives, I'm not"},{"startTime":2615.317,"endTime":2618.827,"body":"gonna read a 55 page document."},{"startTime":2618.827,"endTime":2619.517,"body":"Exactly."},{"startTime":2619.517,"endTime":2620.082,"body":"I agree."},{"startTime":2620.087,"endTime":2621.857,"body":"."},{"startTime":2620.087,"endTime":2621.857,"body":"The product thinking"},{"startTime":2621.857,"endTime":2623.117,"body":"section, I think it's good."},{"startTime":2623.117,"endTime":2624.402,"body":"I mean, I like this section."},{"startTime":2624.642,"endTime":2626.902,"body":"I think this should have"},{"startTime":2624.642,"endTime":2626.902,"body":"been the intro to the whole"},{"startTime":2626.902,"endTime":2628.422,"body":"document and the whole"},{"startTime":2626.902,"endTime":2628.422,"body":"document should have been"},{"startTime":2628.422,"endTime":2632.612,"body":"framed around this, but also"},{"startTime":2628.422,"endTime":2632.612,"body":"like , you guys miss the"},{"startTime":2632.612,"endTime":2636.932,"body":"market opportunity 'cause Marty"},{"startTime":2632.612,"endTime":2636.932,"body":"Cagan wrote a book about this."},{"startTime":2636.992,"endTime":2638.132,"body":"He wrote several, actually."},{"startTime":2638.162,"endTime":2638.252,"body":"Mm-hmm."},{"startTime":2638.562,"endTime":2639.492,"body":"And now you're behind."},{"startTime":2639.642,"endTime":2641.832,"body":"Alright, let's look"},{"startTime":2639.642,"endTime":2641.832,"body":"at emergent strategy."},{"startTime":2641.832,"endTime":2646.023,"body":"So the guide, I mean, this is"},{"startTime":2641.832,"endTime":2646.023,"body":"actually a pretty large section."},{"startTime":2646.227,"endTime":2647.667,"body":"It is a very large"},{"startTime":2646.227,"endTime":2647.667,"body":"section, probably too"},{"startTime":2647.667,"endTime":2648.897,"body":"large on emergent strategy."},{"startTime":2648.897,"endTime":2651.677,"body":"So it basically says strategy"},{"startTime":2648.897,"endTime":2651.677,"body":"is not limited by scale."},{"startTime":2651.767,"endTime":2654.647,"body":"It exists, it should be"},{"startTime":2651.767,"endTime":2654.647,"body":"clearly articulated at the"},{"startTime":2654.647,"endTime":2657.407,"body":"corporate business unit or"},{"startTime":2654.647,"endTime":2657.407,"body":"product level and remain"},{"startTime":2657.407,"endTime":2659.657,"body":"coherent and integrated"},{"startTime":2657.407,"endTime":2659.657,"body":"across all these levels."},{"startTime":2660.047,"endTime":2661.607,"body":"I agree a hundred percent."},{"startTime":2661.607,"endTime":2662.177,"body":"No, I agree so far."},{"startTime":2662.177,"endTime":2662.297,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":2662.422,"endTime":2665.812,"body":"Crucially, strategy should"},{"startTime":2662.422,"endTime":2665.812,"body":"distinguish between ends and"},{"startTime":2665.812,"endTime":2668.332,"body":"means ends meaning quantified."},{"startTime":2668.752,"endTime":2672.772,"body":"Stakeholder valued outcomes and"},{"startTime":2668.752,"endTime":2672.772,"body":"means meaning how you get there."},{"startTime":2672.802,"endTime":2674.952,"body":"Initiatives and activities,"},{"startTime":2672.802,"endTime":2674.952,"body":"Drawing and adapting."},{"startTime":2674.952,"endTime":2676.302,"body":"Roger Martin's work."},{"startTime":2676.422,"endTime":2680.382,"body":"I'm gonna assume this is"},{"startTime":2676.422,"endTime":2680.382,"body":"that is the Roger Martin."},{"startTime":2680.482,"endTime":2684.432,"body":"I'm gonna assume 41 is how to"},{"startTime":2680.482,"endTime":2684.432,"body":"play . 41, let's go look at 41."},{"startTime":2684.732,"endTime":2685.272,"body":"It takes you there."},{"startTime":2685.272,"endTime":2685.452,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":2685.932,"endTime":2689.832,"body":"Martin, A new way to think,"},{"startTime":2685.932,"endTime":2689.832,"body":"your Guide to Superior"},{"startTime":2689.832,"endTime":2691.032,"body":"Management Effectiveness."},{"startTime":2691.242,"endTime":2693.072,"body":"Well, this is not what I"},{"startTime":2691.242,"endTime":2693.072,"body":"thought it was gonna be."},{"startTime":2693.072,"endTime":2695.172,"body":"No, but it is the"},{"startTime":2693.072,"endTime":2695.172,"body":"Roger Martin, I think."},{"startTime":2695.202,"endTime":2695.472,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":2695.562,"endTime":2698.532,"body":"Roger Martin."},{"startTime":2698.922,"endTime":2700.092,"body":"How, yeah."},{"startTime":2700.092,"endTime":2700.452,"body":"How to win."},{"startTime":2700.452,"endTime":2700.602,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":2700.602,"endTime":2701.022,"body":"Play to Win."},{"startTime":2701.022,"endTime":2701.023,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":2701.023,"endTime":2701.317,"body":"This is the same one."},{"startTime":2701.402,"endTime":2701.612,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":2701.692,"endTime":2702.302,"body":"Playing to win."},{"startTime":2702.332,"endTime":2703.592,"body":"We did a podcast"},{"startTime":2702.332,"endTime":2703.592,"body":"on plane to win."},{"startTime":2703.892,"endTime":2704.492,"body":"We did, we did."},{"startTime":2704.792,"endTime":2706.772,"body":"Now you gotta look on"},{"startTime":2704.792,"endTime":2706.772,"body":"which podcast it was."},{"startTime":2707.072,"endTime":2708.032,"body":"Curtis was here, I think."},{"startTime":2708.032,"endTime":2708.872,"body":"I don't think you were here."},{"startTime":2708.877,"endTime":2710.517,"body":"So emergent strategy."},{"startTime":2710.797,"endTime":2713.997,"body":"He says, for a situation where"},{"startTime":2710.797,"endTime":2713.997,"body":"expertise alone is sufficient?"},{"startTime":2714.347,"endTime":2717.947,"body":"To ensure strategy is iterative,"},{"startTime":2714.347,"endTime":2717.947,"body":"actionable, and value focused."},{"startTime":2717.947,"endTime":2721.302,"body":"And he gives a big list"},{"startTime":2717.947,"endTime":2721.302,"body":"Of things for a situation"},{"startTime":2721.302,"endTime":2724.302,"body":"where expertise is valuable,"},{"startTime":2721.302,"endTime":2724.302,"body":"yet insufficient cause and"},{"startTime":2724.302,"endTime":2727.392,"body":"effect are only coherent in"},{"startTime":2724.302,"endTime":2727.392,"body":"retrospect and uncertainty"},{"startTime":2727.392,"endTime":2728.142,"body":"needs to be embraced."},{"startTime":2728.142,"endTime":2731.052,"body":"Scrum teams and stakeholders"},{"startTime":2728.142,"endTime":2731.052,"body":"need to, and then he gives"},{"startTime":2731.052,"endTime":2731.832,"body":"a big list of things."},{"startTime":2732.082,"endTime":2735.832,"body":"I understand what they're doing"},{"startTime":2732.082,"endTime":2735.832,"body":"here, but it seems, I don't"},{"startTime":2735.832,"endTime":2737.062,"body":"know, it's a bit misplaced."},{"startTime":2737.062,"endTime":2740.282,"body":"it seems haphazard"},{"startTime":2737.062,"endTime":2740.282,"body":"in its compilation."},{"startTime":2740.522,"endTime":2742.682,"body":"You know, it seems like"},{"startTime":2740.522,"endTime":2742.682,"body":"what they're saying is like."},{"startTime":2743.012,"endTime":2745.442,"body":"Market conditions are"},{"startTime":2743.012,"endTime":2745.442,"body":"moving faster than you can"},{"startTime":2745.562,"endTime":2749.772,"body":"react, and your strategy"},{"startTime":2745.562,"endTime":2749.772,"body":"needs to be emergent."},{"startTime":2749.792,"endTime":2752.347,"body":"Your strategy needs to basically"},{"startTime":2749.792,"endTime":2752.347,"body":"follow the users and follow"},{"startTime":2752.347,"endTime":2753.577,"body":"'em as closely as possible."},{"startTime":2753.877,"endTime":2755.287,"body":"Which in principle is fine."},{"startTime":2755.637,"endTime":2755.847,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":2756.087,"endTime":2759.437,"body":"But I gotta say like, in"},{"startTime":2756.087,"endTime":2759.437,"body":"actuality like strategy is"},{"startTime":2759.437,"endTime":2762.167,"body":"that thing your leadership team"},{"startTime":2759.437,"endTime":2762.167,"body":"does once a year at an offsite"},{"startTime":2762.167,"endTime":2763.337,"body":"that you are not invited to."},{"startTime":2763.472,"endTime":2763.692,"body":"Yes."},{"startTime":2763.757,"endTime":2764.087,"body":"Yes."},{"startTime":2764.117,"endTime":2767.187,"body":"And questioning it is like"},{"startTime":2764.117,"endTime":2767.187,"body":"now you're you might as well"},{"startTime":2767.187,"endTime":2769.307,"body":"be like kicking their dog."},{"startTime":2769.607,"endTime":2769.817,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":2769.937,"endTime":2771.137,"body":"So I agree with that."},{"startTime":2771.137,"endTime":2774.467,"body":"At the scrum team level,"},{"startTime":2771.137,"endTime":2774.467,"body":"you're not invited and your"},{"startTime":2774.467,"endTime":2776.237,"body":"voice doesn't really carry."},{"startTime":2776.237,"endTime":2776.507,"body":"Right."},{"startTime":2776.507,"endTime":2778.517,"body":"The strategy's already"},{"startTime":2776.507,"endTime":2778.517,"body":"decided go work on it."},{"startTime":2778.577,"endTime":2781.387,"body":"Well, let's pivot from that"},{"startTime":2778.577,"endTime":2781.387,"body":"because some people might"},{"startTime":2781.387,"endTime":2783.547,"body":"be like, oh, Brian, like"},{"startTime":2781.387,"endTime":2783.547,"body":"you're the product manager."},{"startTime":2783.547,"endTime":2786.147,"body":"You should be involved in the"},{"startTime":2783.547,"endTime":2786.147,"body":"strategy, don't play the victim."},{"startTime":2786.447,"endTime":2786.927,"body":"Okay."},{"startTime":2787.227,"endTime":2789.587,"body":"But , my executives are"},{"startTime":2787.227,"endTime":2789.587,"body":"gonna say, well, Brian,"},{"startTime":2789.587,"endTime":2792.677,"body":"you're just, you're just"},{"startTime":2789.587,"endTime":2792.677,"body":"shopping different strategies."},{"startTime":2792.977,"endTime":2793.967,"body":"You're, you're testing 'em."},{"startTime":2794.057,"endTime":2795.167,"body":"You, you have no plan."},{"startTime":2795.407,"endTime":2797.507,"body":"You're just testing everything"},{"startTime":2795.407,"endTime":2797.507,"body":"and going, which, what?"},{"startTime":2797.777,"endTime":2799.757,"body":"Whichever the way the wind"},{"startTime":2797.777,"endTime":2799.757,"body":"blows, you're going that way."},{"startTime":2799.877,"endTime":2802.697,"body":"And it, it seems like"},{"startTime":2799.877,"endTime":2802.697,"body":"you have no plan."},{"startTime":2803.057,"endTime":2804.287,"body":"No plan is your plan."},{"startTime":2804.587,"endTime":2806.357,"body":"That's that's what my executives"},{"startTime":2804.587,"endTime":2806.357,"body":"will come, that is a real"},{"startTime":2806.357,"endTime":2807.827,"body":"danger and they won't fund me."},{"startTime":2807.857,"endTime":2808.367,"body":"They will not."},{"startTime":2808.667,"endTime":2810.352,"body":"Yeah, they won't because"},{"startTime":2808.667,"endTime":2810.352,"body":"they don't have confidence"},{"startTime":2810.352,"endTime":2811.042,"body":"in what you're Correct."},{"startTime":2811.042,"endTime":2814.642,"body":"Bringing to the table e even"},{"startTime":2811.042,"endTime":2814.642,"body":"if, even if I will win, yeah."},{"startTime":2814.642,"endTime":2816.622,"body":"Because you are actually"},{"startTime":2814.642,"endTime":2816.622,"body":"looking for evidence, et"},{"startTime":2816.622,"endTime":2819.532,"body":"cetera so yeah, you win in the"},{"startTime":2816.622,"endTime":2819.532,"body":"end, but yeah, right from the"},{"startTime":2819.532,"endTime":2820.822,"body":"get go, they won't fund you."},{"startTime":2821.212,"endTime":2823.682,"body":"So I think there's a time"},{"startTime":2821.212,"endTime":2823.682,"body":"horizon to consider here."},{"startTime":2823.682,"endTime":2825.512,"body":"The Scrum team's working"},{"startTime":2823.682,"endTime":2825.512,"body":"on something that's"},{"startTime":2825.512,"endTime":2826.682,"body":"emergent right now."},{"startTime":2826.952,"endTime":2830.342,"body":"Off the top of the backlog,"},{"startTime":2826.952,"endTime":2830.342,"body":"whereas strategy is decided"},{"startTime":2830.402,"endTime":2832.292,"body":"on a longer time horizon."},{"startTime":2832.442,"endTime":2834.962,"body":"Mm-hmm , as a scrum team,"},{"startTime":2832.442,"endTime":2834.962,"body":"you really don't have sway"},{"startTime":2834.962,"endTime":2838.322,"body":"there you're basically handed"},{"startTime":2834.962,"endTime":2838.322,"body":"down the strategy, right."},{"startTime":2838.352,"endTime":2840.872,"body":"Possibly through multiple"},{"startTime":2838.352,"endTime":2840.872,"body":"layers to say, go work on"},{"startTime":2840.872,"endTime":2844.322,"body":"this, go deliver this so this"},{"startTime":2840.872,"endTime":2844.322,"body":"is little bit misplaced, I"},{"startTime":2844.322,"endTime":2847.222,"body":"feel like, in this document"},{"startTime":2844.322,"endTime":2847.222,"body":"what can the scrum team do?"},{"startTime":2847.312,"endTime":2850.192,"body":"You can't just go knock on the"},{"startTime":2847.312,"endTime":2850.192,"body":"senior leader's doors, right."},{"startTime":2850.192,"endTime":2852.322,"body":"The C level and say, Hey,"},{"startTime":2850.192,"endTime":2852.322,"body":"I'm gonna tell you what the"},{"startTime":2852.322,"endTime":2854.662,"body":"strategy should be, or let's"},{"startTime":2852.322,"endTime":2854.662,"body":"co-create the strategies."},{"startTime":2854.662,"endTime":2855.892,"body":"Like nobody invites you in."},{"startTime":2855.952,"endTime":2856.072,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":2856.072,"endTime":2860.242,"body":"When, when you do that, well"},{"startTime":2856.072,"endTime":2860.242,"body":"that, I mean this is, this"},{"startTime":2860.272,"endTime":2862.132,"body":"could be a very dense section."},{"startTime":2862.162,"endTime":2862.282,"body":"Mm-hmm."},{"startTime":2862.552,"endTime":2865.282,"body":"If it, if it is saying like,"},{"startTime":2862.552,"endTime":2865.282,"body":"well you should go knock on"},{"startTime":2865.282,"endTime":2865.942,"body":"that leader's door, right?"},{"startTime":2865.997,"endTime":2868.402,"body":"And say, Hey listen,"},{"startTime":2865.997,"endTime":2868.402,"body":"like this is not working."},{"startTime":2868.852,"endTime":2870.112,"body":"Why don't we work together?"},{"startTime":2870.172,"endTime":2873.252,"body":"And I'll bring you some evidence"},{"startTime":2870.172,"endTime":2873.252,"body":"saying, why don't we lay out a"},{"startTime":2873.252,"endTime":2876.822,"body":"bunch of potential strategies"},{"startTime":2873.252,"endTime":2876.822,"body":"and then we'll make tests for"},{"startTime":2876.822,"endTime":2878.832,"body":"each strategy, and then we'll"},{"startTime":2876.822,"endTime":2878.832,"body":"test them against the market."},{"startTime":2878.862,"endTime":2881.652,"body":"And now you're back in product"},{"startTime":2878.862,"endTime":2881.652,"body":"discovery and I would argue."},{"startTime":2881.952,"endTime":2885.452,"body":"Again, my role on the podcast"},{"startTime":2881.952,"endTime":2885.452,"body":"as a product manager I would"},{"startTime":2885.452,"endTime":2892.052,"body":"argue I don't need this 55 page"},{"startTime":2885.452,"endTime":2892.052,"body":"DLC that I buy that adds like"},{"startTime":2892.052,"endTime":2894.542,"body":"this ridiculous quest that I'm"},{"startTime":2892.052,"endTime":2894.542,"body":"not even interested in doing."},{"startTime":2894.892,"endTime":2896.362,"body":"I can read the"},{"startTime":2894.892,"endTime":2896.362,"body":"Marty Cagan books."},{"startTime":2896.542,"endTime":2898.252,"body":"I can go buy that"},{"startTime":2896.542,"endTime":2898.252,"body":"game, you know?"},{"startTime":2898.342,"endTime":2898.582,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":2898.582,"endTime":2902.342,"body":"and go play the whole game"},{"startTime":2898.582,"endTime":2902.342,"body":"without any DLC there, there's a"},{"startTime":2902.342,"endTime":2903.992,"body":"bunch of books written for this."},{"startTime":2904.072,"endTime":2904.342,"body":"Okay."},{"startTime":2904.342,"endTime":2904.822,"body":"I agree."},{"startTime":2904.912,"endTime":2906.862,"body":"So I go back to"},{"startTime":2904.912,"endTime":2906.862,"body":"what I said earlier."},{"startTime":2906.862,"endTime":2909.172,"body":"It's misplaced in this"},{"startTime":2906.862,"endTime":2909.172,"body":"document, at least because the"},{"startTime":2909.172,"endTime":2910.462,"body":"teams can't do much with it."},{"startTime":2910.852,"endTime":2912.292,"body":"I want to go into the"},{"startTime":2910.852,"endTime":2912.292,"body":"end of the podcast here"},{"startTime":2912.292,"endTime":2913.042,"body":"and talk about like."},{"startTime":2913.402,"endTime":2913.822,"body":"Okay."},{"startTime":2914.152,"endTime":2918.082,"body":"The, the expansion claims that"},{"startTime":2914.152,"endTime":2918.082,"body":"Scrum is founded on empiricism"},{"startTime":2918.412,"endTime":2921.992,"body":"and emphasizes evidence-based"},{"startTime":2918.412,"endTime":2921.992,"body":"decision making, right?"},{"startTime":2922.052,"endTime":2922.292,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":2922.442,"endTime":2927.142,"body":"But also like empiricism, even"},{"startTime":2922.442,"endTime":2927.142,"body":"in the original Scrum guide."},{"startTime":2927.442,"endTime":2930.172,"body":"And when you tack on product"},{"startTime":2927.442,"endTime":2930.172,"body":"management, like as a discipline"},{"startTime":2930.172,"endTime":2932.512,"body":"that's works with Scrum, like"},{"startTime":2930.172,"endTime":2932.512,"body":"that, the product owner is"},{"startTime":2932.512,"endTime":2936.682,"body":"like a delegation thereof,"},{"startTime":2932.512,"endTime":2936.682,"body":"like empiricism gets diluted."},{"startTime":2936.982,"endTime":2940.752,"body":"So in the original scrum guide,"},{"startTime":2936.982,"endTime":2940.752,"body":"maybe not the latest one, I"},{"startTime":2940.752,"endTime":2943.842,"body":"think it's all in there though,"},{"startTime":2940.752,"endTime":2943.842,"body":"but it was introduced some time"},{"startTime":2943.842,"endTime":2945.522,"body":"ago now, a few versions ago."},{"startTime":2945.852,"endTime":2949.152,"body":"Empiricism in the form"},{"startTime":2945.852,"endTime":2949.152,"body":"of tPI, transparency,"},{"startTime":2949.152,"endTime":2950.807,"body":"adaptation, inspection."},{"startTime":2950.812,"endTime":2951.012,"body":"Inspection."},{"startTime":2951.042,"endTime":2951.942,"body":"Not in that sequence."},{"startTime":2952.062,"endTime":2952.722,"body":"Transparency."},{"startTime":2952.722,"endTime":2954.132,"body":"You've gotta be able to"},{"startTime":2952.722,"endTime":2954.132,"body":"see what you're doing,"},{"startTime":2954.402,"endTime":2956.742,"body":"inspect it, and then adapt"},{"startTime":2956.792,"endTime":2960.012,"body":"as needed so they had that in"},{"startTime":2956.792,"endTime":2960.012,"body":"there for some time ago now."},{"startTime":2960.017,"endTime":2961.632,"body":"Which, which is so"},{"startTime":2960.017,"endTime":2961.632,"body":"interesting because that's,"},{"startTime":2961.692,"endTime":2962.802,"body":"that's just the OODA loop."},{"startTime":2962.802,"endTime":2966.582,"body":"Like it is just a re So, which"},{"startTime":2962.802,"endTime":2966.582,"body":"is in, which is in the 55 pages."},{"startTime":2966.582,"endTime":2966.927,"body":"Yeah, yeah, yeah."},{"startTime":2966.932,"endTime":2968.652,"body":"They reference the oodle"},{"startTime":2966.932,"endTime":2968.652,"body":"loop in the 55 pages."},{"startTime":2968.652,"endTime":2969.047,"body":"Yeah, yeah, yeah."},{"startTime":2969.432,"endTime":2970.692,"body":"It is exactly that."},{"startTime":2970.752,"endTime":2972.582,"body":"It's, it's just a different"},{"startTime":2970.752,"endTime":2972.582,"body":"acronym, but I don't know."},{"startTime":2972.882,"endTime":2976.442,"body":"So, the educated hunches, like"},{"startTime":2972.882,"endTime":2976.442,"body":"they, they reference educated"},{"startTime":2976.442,"endTime":2977.522,"body":"hunches in this document."},{"startTime":2977.822,"endTime":2977.912,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":2977.912,"endTime":2979.432,"body":"Like like, okay, I get it."},{"startTime":2979.432,"endTime":2981.652,"body":"Like I, because we did a"},{"startTime":2979.432,"endTime":2981.652,"body":"podcast with Alex where we"},{"startTime":2981.652,"endTime":2984.352,"body":"were talking about like, oh,"},{"startTime":2981.652,"endTime":2984.352,"body":"well, is it, is it evidence"},{"startTime":2984.352,"endTime":2985.912,"body":"based or is it intuition based?"},{"startTime":2986.092,"endTime":2990.832,"body":"And they kind of infer that in"},{"startTime":2986.092,"endTime":2990.832,"body":"here is like, oh, it's educated"},{"startTime":2990.832,"endTime":2992.632,"body":"hunches to move you forward."},{"startTime":2993.022,"endTime":2993.852,"body":"But I don't know."},{"startTime":2993.902,"endTime":2997.267,"body":"there, there's a, like with"},{"startTime":2993.902,"endTime":2997.267,"body":"55 pages, you would think the"},{"startTime":2997.267,"endTime":2999.187,"body":"clarity should come through."},{"startTime":2999.267,"endTime":3002.027,"body":"I just don't think that"},{"startTime":2999.267,"endTime":3002.027,"body":"the , I'm trying to give"},{"startTime":3002.027,"endTime":3003.317,"body":"the document a fair chance."},{"startTime":3003.317,"endTime":3004.067,"body":"That's what I'm trying to do."},{"startTime":3004.197,"endTime":3006.747,"body":"But at the same time, if"},{"startTime":3004.197,"endTime":3006.747,"body":"everything is empirical in the"},{"startTime":3006.747,"endTime":3008.872,"body":"document, nothing is, nothing"},{"startTime":3006.747,"endTime":3008.872,"body":"like the term lose all meaning"},{"startTime":3008.872,"endTime":3011.572,"body":"everything's empirical, but"},{"startTime":3008.872,"endTime":3011.572,"body":"your hunches are empirical,"},{"startTime":3011.662,"endTime":3014.122,"body":"but your evidence is empirical,"},{"startTime":3011.662,"endTime":3014.122,"body":"but you're not going out"},{"startTime":3014.122,"endTime":3015.052,"body":"on a limb in the document."},{"startTime":3015.052,"endTime":3018.112,"body":"And you, and trying to like"},{"startTime":3015.052,"endTime":3018.112,"body":"separate the mode one, mode"},{"startTime":3018.112,"endTime":3021.202,"body":"two, thinking of like, you're"},{"startTime":3018.112,"endTime":3021.202,"body":"making snap judgments, but also"},{"startTime":3021.202,"endTime":3024.362,"body":"you're making judgment based"},{"startTime":3021.202,"endTime":3024.362,"body":"on evidence and experience."},{"startTime":3024.452,"endTime":3024.752,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":3025.052,"endTime":3028.202,"body":"So are you making, are you"},{"startTime":3025.052,"endTime":3028.202,"body":"making snap judgments off of"},{"startTime":3028.542,"endTime":3030.762,"body":"experience and your feeling?"},{"startTime":3031.062,"endTime":3034.182,"body":"Are you making judgements"},{"startTime":3031.062,"endTime":3034.182,"body":"off of well done"},{"startTime":3034.272,"endTime":3035.472,"body":"Experiments with evidence."},{"startTime":3035.502,"endTime":3035.652,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":3035.842,"endTime":3038.322,"body":"and those two things"},{"startTime":3035.842,"endTime":3038.322,"body":"like it's just not laid"},{"startTime":3038.322,"endTime":3039.322,"body":"out very well in here."},{"startTime":3039.622,"endTime":3040.162,"body":"Yeah, I know."},{"startTime":3040.552,"endTime":3043.012,"body":"And so one of the things"},{"startTime":3040.552,"endTime":3043.012,"body":"that is in the against is"},{"startTime":3043.012,"endTime":3046.222,"body":"educated hunches are just"},{"startTime":3043.012,"endTime":3046.222,"body":"like it says here, just like"},{"startTime":3046.222,"endTime":3047.842,"body":"your opinion, man, right?"},{"startTime":3047.842,"endTime":3051.562,"body":"So you ask four people their"},{"startTime":3047.842,"endTime":3051.562,"body":"opinions on your educated"},{"startTime":3051.562,"endTime":3053.092,"body":"hunches and see how they land."},{"startTime":3053.152,"endTime":3055.622,"body":"So what they could have"},{"startTime":3053.152,"endTime":3055.622,"body":"done here, just like we"},{"startTime":3055.622,"endTime":3056.642,"body":"talked about , the boards."},{"startTime":3056.647,"endTime":3059.347,"body":", Hey, like after you deliver"},{"startTime":3056.647,"endTime":3059.347,"body":"something and validate with a"},{"startTime":3059.347,"endTime":3062.137,"body":"customer, what they could have"},{"startTime":3059.347,"endTime":3062.137,"body":"done here is they could have"},{"startTime":3062.137,"endTime":3067.427,"body":"said every work item that you"},{"startTime":3062.137,"endTime":3067.427,"body":"pick up, every swim lane that"},{"startTime":3067.517,"endTime":3072.057,"body":"cuts across all your steps it"},{"startTime":3067.517,"endTime":3072.057,"body":"has a verifiable hypothesis."},{"startTime":3072.357,"endTime":3072.747,"body":"Right?"},{"startTime":3072.747,"endTime":3073.197,"body":"Mm-hmm."},{"startTime":3073.272,"endTime":3075.982,"body":"And then we can measure"},{"startTime":3073.272,"endTime":3075.982,"body":"that statistically at the"},{"startTime":3075.982,"endTime":3079.132,"body":"end of the phase when we"},{"startTime":3075.982,"endTime":3079.132,"body":"deliver it with the customer,"},{"startTime":3079.132,"endTime":3079.882,"body":"We can measure that."},{"startTime":3080.212,"endTime":3085.702,"body":"And they could have gone forward"},{"startTime":3080.212,"endTime":3085.702,"body":"really taking empiricism and"},{"startTime":3085.702,"endTime":3087.832,"body":"making it the cornerstone"},{"startTime":3085.702,"endTime":3087.832,"body":"of Scrum to be like, Hey,"},{"startTime":3087.832,"endTime":3091.652,"body":"you need to change all your"},{"startTime":3087.832,"endTime":3091.652,"body":"work items to comply with the"},{"startTime":3091.652,"endTime":3093.452,"body":"fundamentals of empiricism."},{"startTime":3093.722,"endTime":3097.352,"body":"So your work item is, if we"},{"startTime":3093.722,"endTime":3097.352,"body":"do this, this is gonna happen."},{"startTime":3097.382,"endTime":3097.742,"body":"Right?"},{"startTime":3097.982,"endTime":3102.722,"body":"And then the end is either a"},{"startTime":3097.982,"endTime":3102.722,"body":"con, a confirmation or denial."},{"startTime":3102.722,"endTime":3103.262,"body":"Refutation."},{"startTime":3103.262,"endTime":3103.264,"body":"Yeah, refutation."},{"startTime":3103.592,"endTime":3104.582,"body":"Yeah, refuting."},{"startTime":3104.937,"endTime":3106.277,"body":"It's either true or false."},{"startTime":3106.277,"endTime":3106.282,"body":"It's either true or false."},{"startTime":3106.287,"endTime":3106.317,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":3106.432,"endTime":3108.592,"body":"Your, your theory is either"},{"startTime":3106.432,"endTime":3108.592,"body":"true or false at the end,"},{"startTime":3108.682,"endTime":3111.882,"body":"and like the software might"},{"startTime":3108.682,"endTime":3111.882,"body":"be good and they, but the"},{"startTime":3111.912,"endTime":3114.972,"body":"original empirical statement."},{"startTime":3115.272,"endTime":3117.732,"body":"True or false, no matter"},{"startTime":3115.272,"endTime":3117.732,"body":"how the software turns out."},{"startTime":3117.972,"endTime":3118.182,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":3118.232,"endTime":3119.792,"body":"and it might be great software."},{"startTime":3119.882,"endTime":3122.582,"body":"Turns out that our"},{"startTime":3119.882,"endTime":3122.582,"body":"original theory is false,"},{"startTime":3122.822,"endTime":3123.992,"body":"but software is great."},{"startTime":3123.992,"endTime":3124.772,"body":"Everyone loves it."},{"startTime":3125.072,"endTime":3125.852,"body":"That could happen."},{"startTime":3126.122,"endTime":3127.202,"body":"But there's learning in that."},{"startTime":3127.252,"endTime":3130.702,"body":"That is not what's being"},{"startTime":3127.252,"endTime":3130.702,"body":"set up in this, in this"},{"startTime":3130.702,"endTime":3133.592,"body":"55 page 25,000 word setup."},{"startTime":3133.642,"endTime":3136.267,"body":"It's like, well man, it's"},{"startTime":3133.642,"endTime":3136.267,"body":"kinda like your opinion."},{"startTime":3136.567,"endTime":3137.047,"body":"I don't know."},{"startTime":3137.097,"endTime":3137.577,"body":"it's weird."},{"startTime":3137.617,"endTime":3140.277,"body":"it's weird to be in like"},{"startTime":3137.617,"endTime":3140.277,"body":"empiricism should be a"},{"startTime":3140.277,"endTime":3141.297,"body":"cornerstone of Scrum."},{"startTime":3141.537,"endTime":3141.867,"body":"Yes."},{"startTime":3141.927,"endTime":3142.847,"body":"It's just weird."},{"startTime":3142.847,"endTime":3146.207,"body":"It's like, is that gonna be,"},{"startTime":3142.847,"endTime":3146.207,"body":"is trust your gut a thing?"},{"startTime":3146.507,"endTime":3147.687,"body":"is that what we're saying?"},{"startTime":3147.687,"endTime":3149.797,"body":"Because that, but I see you."},{"startTime":3149.802,"endTime":3149.822,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":3149.922,"endTime":3151.242,"body":"I see you going there"},{"startTime":3149.922,"endTime":3151.242,"body":"frustrated by that."},{"startTime":3151.242,"endTime":3152.802,"body":"I see you, I see you"},{"startTime":3151.242,"endTime":3152.802,"body":"frustrated by that."},{"startTime":3152.802,"endTime":3153.162,"body":"But."},{"startTime":3153.522,"endTime":3154.752,"body":"I think you would agree with me."},{"startTime":3154.932,"endTime":3157.242,"body":"Most development teams,"},{"startTime":3154.932,"endTime":3157.242,"body":"when they launch off to"},{"startTime":3157.242,"endTime":3161.052,"body":"like spend a month working"},{"startTime":3157.242,"endTime":3161.052,"body":"on a feature, they're just"},{"startTime":3161.052,"endTime":3162.132,"body":"trusting their gut against"},{"startTime":3162.232,"endTime":3165.142,"body":"or they're just taking orders,"},{"startTime":3162.232,"endTime":3165.142,"body":"but Yeah, absolutely correct."},{"startTime":3165.442,"endTime":3166.642,"body":"So I think there's"},{"startTime":3165.442,"endTime":3166.642,"body":"levels, right?"},{"startTime":3166.642,"endTime":3169.372,"body":"Development teams don't"},{"startTime":3166.642,"endTime":3169.372,"body":"really feel empowered"},{"startTime":3169.372,"endTime":3172.222,"body":"most of the time to say,"},{"startTime":3169.372,"endTime":3172.222,"body":"Hey, this is our gut feel."},{"startTime":3172.222,"endTime":3173.122,"body":"We're gonna do this."},{"startTime":3173.182,"endTime":3175.732,"body":"Yeah, they're gonna do it"},{"startTime":3173.182,"endTime":3175.732,"body":"because that's what the PO"},{"startTime":3175.732,"endTime":3178.102,"body":"or the product manager has"},{"startTime":3175.732,"endTime":3178.102,"body":"specified they should do."},{"startTime":3178.107,"endTime":3178.522,"body":"No, no, no."},{"startTime":3178.822,"endTime":3180.812,"body":"But that's a cop out yes it is."},{"startTime":3180.812,"endTime":3184.052,"body":"But, but that person could take"},{"startTime":3180.812,"endTime":3184.052,"body":"ownership to be like, well,"},{"startTime":3184.052,"endTime":3188.252,"body":"it's my gut feeling, however,"},{"startTime":3184.052,"endTime":3188.252,"body":"I'm gonna put it down on paper."},{"startTime":3188.432,"endTime":3189.542,"body":"I'm gonna put it on the wall."},{"startTime":3189.542,"endTime":3192.752,"body":"I'm gonna say, I think if"},{"startTime":3189.542,"endTime":3192.752,"body":"we do X we'll get Y output."},{"startTime":3193.052,"endTime":3197.672,"body":"And again, if you're testing"},{"startTime":3193.052,"endTime":3197.672,"body":"hypothesis as you move along,"},{"startTime":3197.792,"endTime":3200.642,"body":"you can say, okay, the customers"},{"startTime":3197.792,"endTime":3200.642,"body":"I've verified the with say"},{"startTime":3200.642,"endTime":3203.462,"body":"that the Z would be the output."},{"startTime":3203.882,"endTime":3207.242,"body":"We're gonna do x. Put it on"},{"startTime":3203.882,"endTime":3207.242,"body":"the wall, we expect Z output."},{"startTime":3207.402,"endTime":3209.782,"body":"And then just put that on the"},{"startTime":3207.402,"endTime":3209.782,"body":"wall for everyone to see it,"},{"startTime":3209.787,"endTime":3214.067,"body":"they could have, if empiricism"},{"startTime":3209.787,"endTime":3214.067,"body":"truly is the core they could"},{"startTime":3214.067,"endTime":3217.787,"body":"have if, if it's a creamy"},{"startTime":3214.067,"endTime":3217.787,"body":"nouget core, they could have"},{"startTime":3217.787,"endTime":3219.977,"body":"peeled the chocolate layer"},{"startTime":3217.787,"endTime":3219.977,"body":"back and be like, this is what"},{"startTime":3219.977,"endTime":3221.207,"body":"it should look like inside."},{"startTime":3221.377,"endTime":3224.317,"body":"absolutely correct so this"},{"startTime":3221.377,"endTime":3224.317,"body":"can actually in practice,"},{"startTime":3224.317,"endTime":3226.747,"body":"be implemented in the form"},{"startTime":3224.317,"endTime":3226.747,"body":"of experiments as well."},{"startTime":3226.777,"endTime":3229.297,"body":"You say, if we do this,"},{"startTime":3226.777,"endTime":3229.297,"body":"we expect this to happen."},{"startTime":3229.297,"endTime":3232.807,"body":"Let's try it out in the"},{"startTime":3229.297,"endTime":3232.807,"body":"smallest possible slice of work."},{"startTime":3233.047,"endTime":3236.107,"body":"So we don't spend a lot of time"},{"startTime":3233.047,"endTime":3236.107,"body":"trying to learn from it and"},{"startTime":3236.107,"endTime":3240.047,"body":"go from there . I also think"},{"startTime":3236.107,"endTime":3240.047,"body":"a lot of times teams know that"},{"startTime":3240.107,"endTime":3243.057,"body":"something could be in our way"},{"startTime":3240.107,"endTime":3243.057,"body":"this isn't really the right"},{"startTime":3243.057,"endTime":3244.227,"body":"thing to do, but they don't."},{"startTime":3244.242,"endTime":3245.922,"body":"They either they're"},{"startTime":3244.242,"endTime":3245.922,"body":"not empowered to or"},{"startTime":3245.922,"endTime":3246.792,"body":"they don't speak up."},{"startTime":3246.852,"endTime":3249.492,"body":"you just pointed out I think"},{"startTime":3246.852,"endTime":3249.492,"body":"what the core of what they"},{"startTime":3249.492,"endTime":3250.717,"body":"could have done here Yes."},{"startTime":3250.737,"endTime":3251.292,"body":"Is yes."},{"startTime":3251.292,"endTime":3253.912,"body":"They could have pointed out"},{"startTime":3251.292,"endTime":3253.912,"body":"like what's we are gonna take"},{"startTime":3253.912,"endTime":3257.482,"body":"on a feature and the feature"},{"startTime":3253.912,"endTime":3257.482,"body":"is like a problem wrapped"},{"startTime":3257.482,"endTime":3258.502,"body":"in a solution statement."},{"startTime":3258.502,"endTime":3261.382,"body":"We're gonna strip back"},{"startTime":3258.502,"endTime":3261.382,"body":"the solution until we"},{"startTime":3261.382,"endTime":3262.132,"body":"get to the problem."},{"startTime":3262.137,"endTime":3263.927,"body":"And then we're gonna"},{"startTime":3262.137,"endTime":3263.927,"body":"validate the problem."},{"startTime":3264.047,"endTime":3264.612,"body":"Validate the problem."},{"startTime":3264.832,"endTime":3266.897,"body":"And validate the problem"},{"startTime":3264.832,"endTime":3266.897,"body":"means learning, right?"},{"startTime":3266.897,"endTime":3267.957,"body":"So we're gonna,"},{"startTime":3266.897,"endTime":3267.957,"body":"we're gonna learn."},{"startTime":3268.007,"endTime":3270.197,"body":"Until we come up"},{"startTime":3268.007,"endTime":3270.197,"body":"with a solution."},{"startTime":3270.467,"endTime":3272.687,"body":"And then we're gonna implement"},{"startTime":3270.467,"endTime":3272.687,"body":"a solution at the, like the"},{"startTime":3272.687,"endTime":3275.857,"body":"tiniest cross-functional,"},{"startTime":3272.687,"endTime":3275.857,"body":"everything that's in here, and"},{"startTime":3275.857,"endTime":3278.137,"body":"then we're gonna validate that"},{"startTime":3275.857,"endTime":3278.137,"body":"actually solves a problem."},{"startTime":3278.557,"endTime":3280.627,"body":"And then we're gonna go deep"},{"startTime":3278.557,"endTime":3280.627,"body":"and we solve the whole problem."},{"startTime":3280.627,"endTime":3283.057,"body":"Like they, they could have"},{"startTime":3280.627,"endTime":3283.057,"body":"gone like, here's the steps."},{"startTime":3283.357,"endTime":3284.557,"body":"Break your work item down."},{"startTime":3284.647,"endTime":3285.727,"body":"Learn, learn, learn."},{"startTime":3285.987,"endTime":3287.637,"body":"Implement, learn,"},{"startTime":3285.987,"endTime":3287.637,"body":"implement, learn."},{"startTime":3288.012,"endTime":3288.582,"body":"Solution."},{"startTime":3288.582,"endTime":3289.752,"body":"Solution done."},{"startTime":3289.872,"endTime":3290.472,"body":"Yeah, I agree."},{"startTime":3290.622,"endTime":3292.602,"body":"That would've been"},{"startTime":3290.622,"endTime":3292.602,"body":"extremely helpful."},{"startTime":3292.707,"endTime":3295.617,"body":"Not to harp on this, , because"},{"startTime":3292.707,"endTime":3295.617,"body":"I brought it up 5,000 times"},{"startTime":3295.617,"endTime":3299.297,"body":"today, but they could have"},{"startTime":3295.617,"endTime":3299.297,"body":"graphically represented this."},{"startTime":3299.297,"endTime":3302.507,"body":"Yeah, so like when you have"},{"startTime":3299.297,"endTime":3302.507,"body":"a brick of text, they could"},{"startTime":3302.507,"endTime":3305.267,"body":"have been giving you some"},{"startTime":3302.507,"endTime":3305.267,"body":"diagrams to be like, Hey,"},{"startTime":3305.297,"endTime":3308.257,"body":"here's the way you probably"},{"startTime":3305.297,"endTime":3308.257,"body":"do it now at the end you got"},{"startTime":3308.257,"endTime":3309.127,"body":"a radically different board."},{"startTime":3309.177,"endTime":3310.017,"body":"I think I should do that."},{"startTime":3310.287,"endTime":3312.927,"body":"That is so if they had done"},{"startTime":3310.287,"endTime":3312.927,"body":"that, that would've been"},{"startTime":3312.927,"endTime":3316.437,"body":"a good blueprint for teams"},{"startTime":3312.927,"endTime":3316.437,"body":"to follow, to work with"},{"startTime":3316.437,"endTime":3317.737,"body":"their leadership Right."},{"startTime":3317.737,"endTime":3320.707,"body":"As well because they can"},{"startTime":3317.737,"endTime":3320.707,"body":"actually illustrate the logic"},{"startTime":3320.707,"endTime":3322.837,"body":"behind it and it would, how"},{"startTime":3320.707,"endTime":3322.837,"body":"he arrived at a conclusion."},{"startTime":3322.837,"endTime":3324.247,"body":"And it would've been great if."},{"startTime":3324.667,"endTime":3327.517,"body":"The individual team boards"},{"startTime":3324.667,"endTime":3327.517,"body":"all rolled back up to"},{"startTime":3327.517,"endTime":3328.987,"body":"a strategy level board."},{"startTime":3329.287,"endTime":3331.887,"body":"Unfortunately, most alms"},{"startTime":3329.287,"endTime":3331.887,"body":"don't really cater for that."},{"startTime":3331.918,"endTime":3334.758,"body":"Also to your point about"},{"startTime":3331.918,"endTime":3334.758,"body":"illustrating things with"},{"startTime":3334.758,"endTime":3338.628,"body":"diagrams, it's telling that"},{"startTime":3334.758,"endTime":3338.628,"body":"this document has zero diagrams"},{"startTime":3338.678,"endTime":3340.163,"body":"none well, that's a problem."},{"startTime":3340.358,"endTime":3343.779,"body":"If your framework needs 50"},{"startTime":3340.358,"endTime":3343.779,"body":"pages and 25,000 words, words."},{"startTime":3343.784,"endTime":3343.988,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":3343.993,"endTime":3344.063,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":3344.208,"endTime":3344.718,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":3344.718,"endTime":3347.868,"body":"You're building the next"},{"startTime":3344.718,"endTime":3347.868,"body":"rational, unified process."},{"startTime":3348.018,"endTime":3351.518,"body":"I feel what they're doing"},{"startTime":3348.018,"endTime":3351.518,"body":"here is they've watered down"},{"startTime":3351.518,"endTime":3354.758,"body":"the scrum guide for Mask"},{"startTime":3351.518,"endTime":3354.758,"body":"assumption and now they're"},{"startTime":3354.758,"endTime":3358.748,"body":"wheeling back this, the market's"},{"startTime":3354.758,"endTime":3358.748,"body":"been segmented with product"},{"startTime":3358.748,"endTime":3361.118,"body":"management saying like, we"},{"startTime":3358.748,"endTime":3361.118,"body":"don't need these scrum people."},{"startTime":3361.118,"endTime":3362.913,"body":"Like, they're losing"},{"startTime":3361.118,"endTime":3362.913,"body":"money basically."},{"startTime":3362.913,"endTime":3365.373,"body":"Their wallet's a little lighter"},{"startTime":3362.913,"endTime":3365.373,"body":"than it was five years ago."},{"startTime":3365.433,"endTime":3365.643,"body":"Sure."},{"startTime":3365.693,"endTime":3368.683,"body":"if the cynical part of me"},{"startTime":3365.693,"endTime":3368.683,"body":"is being taken out of it, I"},{"startTime":3368.683,"endTime":3371.423,"body":"would say like 50% of what we"},{"startTime":3368.683,"endTime":3371.423,"body":"talked about today was , good"},{"startTime":3371.423,"endTime":3376.263,"body":"additions, but the bad parts"},{"startTime":3371.423,"endTime":3376.263,"body":"that were being added, , the"},{"startTime":3376.263,"endTime":3378.893,"body":"misses were, the additions"},{"startTime":3376.263,"endTime":3378.893,"body":"didn't go deep enough and"},{"startTime":3378.943,"endTime":3381.983,"body":", the parts where they missed,"},{"startTime":3378.943,"endTime":3381.983,"body":"they really whiffed the ball."},{"startTime":3381.983,"endTime":3384.593,"body":"I think what's happened"},{"startTime":3381.983,"endTime":3384.593,"body":"here is in this so-called"},{"startTime":3384.593,"endTime":3387.443,"body":"expansion pack, what they've"},{"startTime":3384.593,"endTime":3387.443,"body":"done is they've added quite"},{"startTime":3387.443,"endTime":3390.113,"body":"a bit of work from the"},{"startTime":3387.443,"endTime":3390.113,"body":"original scrum guide, which"},{"startTime":3390.113,"endTime":3391.883,"body":"is what about 13 pages?"},{"startTime":3391.943,"endTime":3392.183,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":3392.243,"endTime":3393.203,"body":"12 or 13."},{"startTime":3393.203,"endTime":3393.413,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":3393.633,"endTime":3396.063,"body":"They've added that, and then"},{"startTime":3393.633,"endTime":3396.063,"body":"they've elaborated on it."},{"startTime":3396.063,"endTime":3399.103,"body":"They've changed some"},{"startTime":3396.063,"endTime":3399.103,"body":"vernacular so developers"},{"startTime":3399.103,"endTime":3400.123,"body":"are no longer developers."},{"startTime":3400.123,"endTime":3401.383,"body":"They're product developers."},{"startTime":3401.383,"endTime":3401.443,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":3401.653,"endTime":3404.293,"body":"And they've added some roles"},{"startTime":3401.653,"endTime":3404.293,"body":"like supporters, et cetera."},{"startTime":3404.563,"endTime":3406.603,"body":"All of that could have"},{"startTime":3404.563,"endTime":3406.603,"body":"been done in a page or two."},{"startTime":3406.903,"endTime":3409.123,"body":"Literally in a page or"},{"startTime":3406.903,"endTime":3409.123,"body":"two and they could have"},{"startTime":3409.123,"endTime":3412.753,"body":"just launched the new"},{"startTime":3409.123,"endTime":3412.753,"body":"version of the Scrum guide."},{"startTime":3412.753,"endTime":3415.453,"body":"Scrum guide version"},{"startTime":3412.753,"endTime":3415.453,"body":"2025 so it'll be now"},{"startTime":3415.453,"endTime":3416.833,"body":"what, 13 instead of 13?"},{"startTime":3416.833,"endTime":3418.633,"body":"It might be 14 or 15 pages."},{"startTime":3418.693,"endTime":3418.933,"body":"Sure."},{"startTime":3418.993,"endTime":3422.763,"body":"Not that much of an ad as"},{"startTime":3418.993,"endTime":3422.763,"body":"opposed to this, I feel sorry"},{"startTime":3422.763,"endTime":3425.493,"body":"for somebody coming into"},{"startTime":3422.763,"endTime":3425.493,"body":"the field, 'cause I think"},{"startTime":3425.493,"endTime":3428.143,"body":"seasoned practitioners would,"},{"startTime":3425.493,"endTime":3428.143,"body":"see through this, but yeah."},{"startTime":3428.143,"endTime":3429.913,"body":"Somebody coming into the"},{"startTime":3428.143,"endTime":3429.913,"body":"field would have to read"},{"startTime":3429.913,"endTime":3432.313,"body":"the scrum guide as they say"},{"startTime":3429.913,"endTime":3432.313,"body":"here, that you should do"},{"startTime":3432.363,"endTime":3436.743,"body":"And then read this and, and, and"},{"startTime":3432.363,"endTime":3436.743,"body":"be left to work out the pieces."},{"startTime":3437.043,"endTime":3438.093,"body":"And that's a shame."},{"startTime":3438.393,"endTime":3438.933,"body":"Yikes."},{"startTime":3439.233,"endTime":3439.563,"body":"All right."},{"startTime":3439.613,"endTime":3443.633,"body":"well if, if you have an opinion"},{"startTime":3439.613,"endTime":3443.633,"body":"about this new DLC pack or I"},{"startTime":3443.633,"endTime":3445.763,"body":"mean, if you're like me and"},{"startTime":3443.633,"endTime":3445.763,"body":"you don't wanna buy the DLC."},{"startTime":3446.108,"endTime":3448.298,"body":"And you think the original game"},{"startTime":3446.108,"endTime":3448.298,"body":"should include all this stuff."},{"startTime":3448.598,"endTime":3451.418,"body":"Send me a comment and tell"},{"startTime":3448.598,"endTime":3451.418,"body":"me I'm right or wrong."},{"startTime":3451.478,"endTime":3453.218,"body":"Yeah, I would love"},{"startTime":3451.478,"endTime":3453.218,"body":"to hear from you."},{"startTime":3453.218,"endTime":3456.038,"body":"Also, let us know what you"},{"startTime":3453.218,"endTime":3456.038,"body":"want us to talk about next."},{"startTime":3456.338,"endTime":3458.438,"body":"And don't forget"},{"startTime":3456.338,"endTime":3458.438,"body":"like, and subscribe"}]}