{"version":"1.0.0","segments":[{"startTime":0.0,"endTime":2.465,"body":"if you don't know about"},{"startTime":0.0,"endTime":2.465,"body":"Instapot, what is inspo?"},{"startTime":2.465,"endTime":3.035,"body":"It's a cooking device."},{"startTime":3.035,"endTime":4.865,"body":"It's like a crockpot"},{"startTime":3.035,"endTime":4.865,"body":"wonderful device."},{"startTime":4.87,"endTime":4.94,"body":"Yes."},{"startTime":4.94,"endTime":6.665,"body":"Yeah, it's an electric crockpot."},{"startTime":6.695,"endTime":8.67,"body":"I can do a whole bunch of"},{"startTime":6.695,"endTime":8.67,"body":"things for you , and apparently"},{"startTime":8.67,"endTime":10.2,"body":"you can do a bunch of"},{"startTime":8.67,"endTime":10.2,"body":"different things with it too."},{"startTime":10.25,"endTime":12.559,"body":"In the deep dive for this"},{"startTime":10.25,"endTime":12.559,"body":"episode, I read people"},{"startTime":12.559,"endTime":14.449,"body":"sterilizing their lab"},{"startTime":12.559,"endTime":14.449,"body":"equipment and using it"},{"startTime":14.449,"endTime":15.859,"body":"for all kinds of purposes."},{"startTime":16.23,"endTime":17.82,"body":"Because it was a very"},{"startTime":16.23,"endTime":17.82,"body":"versatile product."},{"startTime":17.88,"endTime":19.799,"body":"Anyway, they filed"},{"startTime":17.88,"endTime":19.799,"body":"for bankruptcy."},{"startTime":20.099,"endTime":22.409,"body":"In the thread that I read"},{"startTime":20.099,"endTime":22.409,"body":"about all this, there was"},{"startTime":22.409,"endTime":25.569,"body":"about 500 comments I made"},{"startTime":22.409,"endTime":25.569,"body":"it about halfway through"},{"startTime":25.569,"endTime":28.119,"body":"the comments before, I just"},{"startTime":25.569,"endTime":28.119,"body":"couldn't take it anymore because"},{"startTime":28.389,"endTime":29.919,"body":"the comments had a theme."},{"startTime":30.319,"endTime":33.449,"body":"The theme over and over again"},{"startTime":30.319,"endTime":33.449,"body":"was talking about, well, if"},{"startTime":33.449,"endTime":36.829,"body":"they would've just added wifi to"},{"startTime":33.449,"endTime":36.829,"body":"the cooking pot or invented air"},{"startTime":36.829,"endTime":39.409,"body":"fryers or came up with different"},{"startTime":36.829,"endTime":39.409,"body":"colors everyone was throwing"},{"startTime":39.409,"endTime":40.639,"body":"different product suggestions"},{"startTime":41.009,"endTime":43.864,"body":"yes or you know, we're"},{"startTime":41.009,"endTime":43.864,"body":"saying like, oh $300 million"},{"startTime":43.864,"endTime":46.384,"body":"of revenue, that's not"},{"startTime":43.864,"endTime":46.384,"body":"$300 million in profit."},{"startTime":46.384,"endTime":49.144,"body":"People saying like, oh how"},{"startTime":46.384,"endTime":49.144,"body":"dare they not be able to run"},{"startTime":49.144,"endTime":50.614,"body":"a company with $300 million?"},{"startTime":51.064,"endTime":52.774,"body":"You know, how"},{"startTime":51.064,"endTime":52.774,"body":"bloated must they be."},{"startTime":52.934,"endTime":56.494,"body":"every comment was a derivation"},{"startTime":52.934,"endTime":56.494,"body":"on one of those themes , I"},{"startTime":56.494,"endTime":59.074,"body":"read through the whole"},{"startTime":56.494,"endTime":59.074,"body":"thing and I said to myself"},{"startTime":59.145,"endTime":60.495,"body":"Hey, I'm a product manager."},{"startTime":60.675,"endTime":63.645,"body":"I have some experience"},{"startTime":60.675,"endTime":63.645,"body":"in products that"},{"startTime":63.824,"endTime":65.295,"body":"work or don't work."},{"startTime":65.324,"endTime":67.554,"body":"And I was like, this just,"},{"startTime":65.324,"endTime":67.554,"body":"doesn't sound right to me."},{"startTime":67.734,"endTime":68.748,"body":"I need to know more."},{"startTime":72.481,"endTime":75.211,"body":"Look, as a customer of"},{"startTime":72.481,"endTime":75.211,"body":"Instacarts, I own three"},{"startTime":75.271,"endTime":79.081,"body":"Instacarts two, now my daughter"},{"startTime":75.271,"endTime":79.081,"body":"took one, but they work great"},{"startTime":79.301,"endTime":82.211,"body":"There are downsides to the user"},{"startTime":79.301,"endTime":82.211,"body":"experience, but we're not here"},{"startTime":82.211,"endTime":84.671,"body":"to talk about those there's no"},{"startTime":82.211,"endTime":84.671,"body":"instructions that come with it."},{"startTime":85.031,"endTime":86.951,"body":"Other than that, you can"},{"startTime":85.031,"endTime":86.951,"body":"figure it out yourself."},{"startTime":87.011,"endTime":88.061,"body":"But once you have."},{"startTime":88.391,"endTime":89.501,"body":"They work great."},{"startTime":89.811,"endTime":93.201,"body":"I'm disappointed that they filed"},{"startTime":89.811,"endTime":93.201,"body":"bankruptcy because now I get"},{"startTime":93.201,"endTime":95.891,"body":"no support , well I understand"},{"startTime":93.201,"endTime":95.891,"body":"you're disappointed, but let's"},{"startTime":95.891,"endTime":97.391,"body":"turn that frown upside down."},{"startTime":97.631,"endTime":97.961,"body":"All right."},{"startTime":98.021,"endTime":100.151,"body":"Because today we're gonna,"},{"startTime":98.021,"endTime":100.151,"body":"I'm gonna tell you a story"},{"startTime":100.151,"endTime":102.821,"body":"'cause I did a big deep dive"},{"startTime":100.151,"endTime":102.821,"body":"into Instapot and the holding"},{"startTime":102.821,"endTime":105.251,"body":"company that, that holds"},{"startTime":102.821,"endTime":105.251,"body":"them and that bought them."},{"startTime":105.381,"endTime":107.331,"body":"I've got a great article"},{"startTime":105.381,"endTime":107.331,"body":"for us to talk through."},{"startTime":107.521,"endTime":109.521,"body":"We're just gonna look"},{"startTime":107.521,"endTime":109.521,"body":"at it to get a summary"},{"startTime":109.521,"endTime":110.451,"body":"and orient ourselves."},{"startTime":110.481,"endTime":111.921,"body":"Before we launch"},{"startTime":110.481,"endTime":111.921,"body":"into the podcast."},{"startTime":112.386,"endTime":114.636,"body":"it's a little longer intro"},{"startTime":112.386,"endTime":114.636,"body":"than normal today because I"},{"startTime":114.636,"endTime":116.836,"body":"think it deserves it because"},{"startTime":114.636,"endTime":116.836,"body":"today a, we're talking about"},{"startTime":116.836,"endTime":119.686,"body":"a topic near and dear to the"},{"startTime":116.836,"endTime":119.686,"body":"hearts of many people that"},{"startTime":119.686,"endTime":120.976,"body":"may listen to this podcast."},{"startTime":121.276,"endTime":124.786,"body":"It's how private equity turned a"},{"startTime":121.276,"endTime":124.786,"body":"beloved product into a financial"},{"startTime":125.146,"endTime":128.536,"body":"failure through financial"},{"startTime":125.146,"endTime":128.536,"body":"engineering , I think most"},{"startTime":128.536,"endTime":130.066,"body":"people would connect with this."},{"startTime":130.096,"endTime":132.666,"body":"This isn't the first product"},{"startTime":130.096,"endTime":132.666,"body":"that I've seen impacted."},{"startTime":132.976,"endTime":134.056,"body":"By private equity."},{"startTime":134.086,"endTime":136.426,"body":"This is gonna be a good"},{"startTime":134.086,"endTime":136.426,"body":"podcast for anybody that"},{"startTime":136.426,"endTime":138.836,"body":"works in product or anybody"},{"startTime":136.426,"endTime":138.836,"body":"that works on teams with"},{"startTime":138.836,"endTime":141.706,"body":"how to keep private equity"},{"startTime":138.836,"endTime":141.706,"body":"from killing your product."},{"startTime":141.856,"endTime":144.531,"body":"But, honestly your business,"},{"startTime":141.856,"endTime":144.531,"body":"because that's the backdrop of"},{"startTime":144.531,"endTime":145.401,"body":"what we're talking about today."},{"startTime":145.611,"endTime":147.861,"body":"Private equity, a wolf"},{"startTime":145.611,"endTime":147.861,"body":"in Wolf's clothing."},{"startTime":148.211,"endTime":149.621,"body":"so there is the article."},{"startTime":149.621,"endTime":151.381,"body":"On Spoon Tech."},{"startTime":151.731,"endTime":155.601,"body":"First off, I had never heard of"},{"startTime":151.731,"endTime":155.601,"body":"Spoon Tech, but I did look at"},{"startTime":155.601,"endTime":158.571,"body":"all the quote mainstream media"},{"startTime":155.601,"endTime":158.571,"body":"sources and nobody was covering"},{"startTime":158.571,"endTime":160.011,"body":"this aspect of Instapot."},{"startTime":160.491,"endTime":163.011,"body":"I'll try to add this article's"},{"startTime":160.491,"endTime":163.011,"body":"link in the description"},{"startTime":163.011,"endTime":165.261,"body":"of the podcast on YouTube"},{"startTime":163.011,"endTime":165.261,"body":"and the audio product so"},{"startTime":165.261,"endTime":166.131,"body":"other people can read it."},{"startTime":166.341,"endTime":169.021,"body":"This article says The"},{"startTime":166.341,"endTime":169.021,"body":"lawsuit accuses the private"},{"startTime":169.021,"endTime":171.541,"body":"equity company of plundering"},{"startTime":169.021,"endTime":171.541,"body":"assets of Instapot."},{"startTime":171.891,"endTime":173.001,"body":"Brands, oh, sorry."},{"startTime":173.271,"endTime":174.861,"body":"Assets of Instant Brands."},{"startTime":175.191,"endTime":178.081,"body":"So I guess Instapot is"},{"startTime":175.191,"endTime":178.081,"body":"the product and Instant"},{"startTime":178.081,"endTime":179.371,"body":"Brands is the company."},{"startTime":179.671,"endTime":181.831,"body":"They got bought by private"},{"startTime":179.671,"endTime":181.831,"body":"equity and even if you're not"},{"startTime":181.831,"endTime":185.131,"body":"in product or if you're just"},{"startTime":181.831,"endTime":185.131,"body":"a, or if you're a team member"},{"startTime":185.431,"endTime":188.571,"body":"or an analyst or a develop"},{"startTime":185.431,"endTime":188.571,"body":"individual developer you can."},{"startTime":188.901,"endTime":190.761,"body":"Like, you can't be"},{"startTime":188.901,"endTime":190.761,"body":"unaware of this stuff."},{"startTime":191.041,"endTime":194.591,"body":"This is how the quote adults"},{"startTime":191.041,"endTime":194.591,"body":"are using the money that you're"},{"startTime":194.591,"endTime":195.731,"body":"producing with your products."},{"startTime":196.171,"endTime":198.061,"body":"And especially when your"},{"startTime":196.171,"endTime":198.061,"body":"company is telling you that"},{"startTime":198.061,"endTime":199.081,"body":"you're just a cost center."},{"startTime":199.081,"endTime":200.281,"body":"You don't produce any money."},{"startTime":200.641,"endTime":202.671,"body":"But then you work on a"},{"startTime":200.641,"endTime":202.671,"body":"product day in, day out that"},{"startTime":202.671,"endTime":204.621,"body":"brings in the revenue for"},{"startTime":202.671,"endTime":204.621,"body":"the company and somehow they"},{"startTime":204.621,"endTime":207.951,"body":"convince you and your manager"},{"startTime":204.621,"endTime":207.951,"body":"that, that you don't make any"},{"startTime":207.951,"endTime":210.741,"body":"money for the company anyway."},{"startTime":210.861,"endTime":212.601,"body":"You can tell I have some"},{"startTime":210.861,"endTime":212.601,"body":"grievances that we probably"},{"startTime":212.601,"endTime":214.311,"body":"should just bundle up"},{"startTime":212.601,"endTime":214.311,"body":"separately into a giant."},{"startTime":214.376,"endTime":216.956,"body":"Pile for a burning man"},{"startTime":214.376,"endTime":216.956,"body":"of a podcast later."},{"startTime":217.246,"endTime":218.056,"body":"Let's continue."},{"startTime":218.116,"endTime":221.116,"body":"Reading the article, it says,"},{"startTime":218.116,"endTime":221.116,"body":"the acquisition of instant"},{"startTime":221.116,"endTime":224.206,"body":"brands, maker of the Instant"},{"startTime":221.116,"endTime":224.206,"body":"Pot by Cornell Capital, took a"},{"startTime":224.206,"endTime":229.516,"body":"turn, the filing of a complaint"},{"startTime":224.206,"endTime":229.516,"body":"on behalf of company creditors"},{"startTime":229.516,"endTime":231.406,"body":"to $400 million in losses."},{"startTime":231.706,"endTime":235.036,"body":"The filing alleges Cornell"},{"startTime":231.706,"endTime":235.036,"body":"Capital LLC and its leadership"},{"startTime":235.036,"endTime":237.346,"body":"orchestrated a series"},{"startTime":235.036,"endTime":237.346,"body":"of fraudulent maneuvers."},{"startTime":237.706,"endTime":239.746,"body":"Lemme try to hit the highlights"},{"startTime":237.706,"endTime":239.746,"body":"here because we have an agenda"},{"startTime":239.746,"endTime":242.866,"body":"for this podcast and it's not"},{"startTime":239.746,"endTime":242.866,"body":"reacting to this entire article."},{"startTime":242.966,"endTime":245.336,"body":"The story begins May, 2017."},{"startTime":245.336,"endTime":247.096,"body":"Cornell Capital is a"},{"startTime":245.336,"endTime":247.096,"body":"private equity firm."},{"startTime":247.096,"endTime":249.591,"body":"They're trying to grow through"},{"startTime":247.096,"endTime":249.591,"body":"acquisition, which is normal."},{"startTime":249.891,"endTime":253.231,"body":"Cornell Capital acquires"},{"startTime":249.891,"endTime":253.231,"body":"World Kitchen named named"},{"startTime":253.231,"endTime":256.741,"body":"it Corelle Brands Carell"},{"startTime":253.231,"endTime":256.741,"body":"Capital, using Cornelle Brands."},{"startTime":256.741,"endTime":257.731,"body":"I'm assuming this is."},{"startTime":258.111,"endTime":261.021,"body":"Them loading down Corelle"},{"startTime":258.111,"endTime":261.021,"body":"with debt to make other"},{"startTime":261.021,"endTime":264.351,"body":"acquisitions and they acquire"},{"startTime":261.021,"endTime":264.351,"body":"Instant, instant brands in"},{"startTime":264.351,"endTime":267.861,"body":"March, 2019 for $650 million."},{"startTime":268.161,"endTime":268.851,"body":"Let's keep going."},{"startTime":268.941,"endTime":272.151,"body":"It says, the complaint"},{"startTime":268.941,"endTime":272.151,"body":"states that shortly after the"},{"startTime":272.151,"endTime":274.881,"body":"acquisition, Cornell Capital"},{"startTime":272.151,"endTime":274.881,"body":"discovered that Instant brands"},{"startTime":274.941,"endTime":277.821,"body":"financial records has been"},{"startTime":274.941,"endTime":277.821,"body":"misstated, had been misstated,"},{"startTime":278.061,"endTime":280.191,"body":"particularly 2018 ebitda."},{"startTime":280.581,"endTime":283.131,"body":"So they're buying"},{"startTime":280.581,"endTime":283.131,"body":"in March, 2019."},{"startTime":283.131,"endTime":284.811,"body":"They're saying the"},{"startTime":283.131,"endTime":284.811,"body":"previous year's ebitda."},{"startTime":284.916,"endTime":289.296,"body":"It was all messed up and the"},{"startTime":284.916,"endTime":289.296,"body":"discovery meant that Cornell"},{"startTime":289.296,"endTime":292.866,"body":"Capital had significantly"},{"startTime":289.296,"endTime":292.866,"body":"overpaid for instant brands,"},{"startTime":293.166,"endTime":294.516,"body":"so they bought the company"},{"startTime":294.816,"endTime":297.096,"body":"First of all, I don't know"},{"startTime":294.816,"endTime":297.096,"body":"how a PE firm goes through and"},{"startTime":297.096,"endTime":298.266,"body":"makes this whole m and a deal."},{"startTime":298.316,"endTime":300.656,"body":"without actually doing"},{"startTime":298.316,"endTime":300.656,"body":"the due diligence."},{"startTime":300.656,"endTime":301.541,"body":"Crazy crazy."},{"startTime":301.626,"endTime":304.056,"body":"One of the first numbers"},{"startTime":301.626,"endTime":304.056,"body":"you think about when you're"},{"startTime":304.056,"endTime":306.696,"body":"looking at anything financial"},{"startTime":304.056,"endTime":306.696,"body":"is an ebitda, right?"},{"startTime":307.036,"endTime":310.066,"body":"So it says in the wake of this"},{"startTime":307.036,"endTime":310.066,"body":"revelation, Cornell Capital"},{"startTime":310.156,"endTime":313.006,"body":"threatened legal action"},{"startTime":310.156,"endTime":313.006,"body":"against Instant brands sellers."},{"startTime":313.236,"endTime":315.126,"body":"Inventor of the Instant"},{"startTime":313.236,"endTime":315.126,"body":"Pot and his co-founders"},{"startTime":315.126,"endTime":316.926,"body":"three people for fraud."},{"startTime":317.226,"endTime":319.866,"body":"Two of those sellers"},{"startTime":317.226,"endTime":319.866,"body":"negotiated a restructuring"},{"startTime":319.866,"endTime":321.576,"body":"agreement in February, 2020."},{"startTime":321.876,"endTime":323.646,"body":"That knocked the"},{"startTime":321.876,"endTime":323.646,"body":"purchasing price down."},{"startTime":323.701,"endTime":326.821,"body":"In a move that would later"},{"startTime":323.701,"endTime":326.821,"body":"become central to the lawsuit,"},{"startTime":327.241,"endTime":330.301,"body":"Cornell Capital secured"},{"startTime":327.241,"endTime":330.301,"body":"itself the sole entitlement"},{"startTime":330.331,"endTime":334.411,"body":"to a future $200 million"},{"startTime":330.331,"endTime":334.411,"body":"dividend from instant brands."},{"startTime":334.801,"endTime":337.291,"body":"they bought this group"},{"startTime":334.801,"endTime":337.291,"body":"for $600 million."},{"startTime":337.291,"endTime":338.011,"body":"Six 15."},{"startTime":338.011,"endTime":339.451,"body":"Yeah, the $615 million."},{"startTime":339.451,"endTime":340.981,"body":"They negotiated"},{"startTime":339.451,"endTime":340.981,"body":"some of that down."},{"startTime":341.281,"endTime":341.461,"body":"Okay."},{"startTime":341.461,"endTime":343.381,"body":"So I don't know what the"},{"startTime":341.461,"endTime":343.381,"body":"negotiation down was."},{"startTime":343.381,"endTime":344.191,"body":"It doesn't say, I have no idea."},{"startTime":344.191,"endTime":344.881,"body":"It doesn't really matter."},{"startTime":345.061,"endTime":346.811,"body":"And then they said,"},{"startTime":345.061,"endTime":346.811,"body":"okay, , we're gonna take an"},{"startTime":346.811,"endTime":350.691,"body":"entitlement of $200 million"},{"startTime":346.811,"endTime":350.691,"body":"out of instant brands on"},{"startTime":350.691,"endTime":351.741,"body":"future dividends, right?"},{"startTime":351.791,"endTime":355.421,"body":"Additionally, Carell Brands"},{"startTime":351.791,"endTime":355.421,"body":"filed a $268 million claim"},{"startTime":355.421,"endTime":356.681,"body":"with his representations."},{"startTime":357.161,"endTime":361.391,"body":"And warranties issuer in May,"},{"startTime":357.161,"endTime":361.391,"body":"2020 alleging the misstated"},{"startTime":361.391,"endTime":363.581,"body":"financials had inflated"},{"startTime":361.391,"endTime":363.581,"body":"the acquisition price."},{"startTime":363.731,"endTime":365.201,"body":"So that's a 268."},{"startTime":365.281,"endTime":367.681,"body":", So let's pretend that like,"},{"startTime":365.281,"endTime":367.681,"body":"I don't know what was in the"},{"startTime":367.681,"endTime":369.991,"body":"settlement, but let's pretend"},{"startTime":367.681,"endTime":369.991,"body":"it was nowhere near on the order"},{"startTime":369.991,"endTime":371.281,"body":"of like $200 million, right?"},{"startTime":371.581,"endTime":374.191,"body":"So they're saying they're"},{"startTime":371.581,"endTime":374.191,"body":"gonna take $200 million"},{"startTime":374.431,"endTime":377.461,"body":"dividend out of instant"},{"startTime":374.431,"endTime":377.461,"body":"brands, and they're taking"},{"startTime":377.461,"endTime":381.781,"body":"out a claim worth $268 million"},{"startTime":377.461,"endTime":381.781,"body":"against the brand as well."},{"startTime":382.261,"endTime":384.781,"body":"So already we're already"},{"startTime":382.261,"endTime":384.781,"body":"stacking up four something,"},{"startTime":384.781,"endTime":387.991,"body":"400 something million dollars,"},{"startTime":384.781,"endTime":387.991,"body":"like easily over four 50."},{"startTime":388.261,"endTime":390.691,"body":"According to the complaint,"},{"startTime":388.261,"endTime":390.691,"body":"Cornell Capital pushed forward"},{"startTime":390.781,"endTime":393.631,"body":"with his plan to extract a"},{"startTime":390.781,"endTime":393.631,"body":"dividend despite knowing about"},{"startTime":393.631,"endTime":396.721,"body":"instant brands overstated"},{"startTime":393.631,"endTime":396.721,"body":"valuation and declining"},{"startTime":396.931,"endTime":398.041,"body":"financial performance."},{"startTime":398.431,"endTime":400.471,"body":"they already weren't"},{"startTime":398.431,"endTime":400.471,"body":"in a good spot, right?"},{"startTime":400.501,"endTime":400.741,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":401.191,"endTime":401.461,"body":"Alright."},{"startTime":401.461,"endTime":403.891,"body":"In March, 2021, instant"},{"startTime":401.461,"endTime":403.891,"body":"brands approach lenders"},{"startTime":403.891,"endTime":407.371,"body":"to secure financing for a"},{"startTime":403.891,"endTime":407.371,"body":"dividend recapitalization."},{"startTime":407.671,"endTime":408.931,"body":"Which is all the"},{"startTime":407.671,"endTime":408.931,"body":"rage these days."},{"startTime":409.231,"endTime":411.571,"body":"Of course all the kids are doing"},{"startTime":409.231,"endTime":411.571,"body":"it.. All the while concealing"},{"startTime":411.571,"endTime":413.791,"body":"the truth about its financial"},{"startTime":411.571,"endTime":413.791,"body":"blows, the company states that"},{"startTime":413.791,"endTime":415.921,"body":"Cornell Capital instant brands"},{"startTime":413.791,"endTime":415.921,"body":"are withheld information."},{"startTime":416.221,"endTime":418.501,"body":"So throughout this"},{"startTime":416.221,"endTime":418.501,"body":"withholding of information"},{"startTime":418.551,"endTime":421.011,"body":"the complaint alleges that"},{"startTime":418.551,"endTime":421.011,"body":"Cornell Capital successfully"},{"startTime":421.011,"endTime":426.561,"body":"secured a $450 million"},{"startTime":421.011,"endTime":426.561,"body":"term loan in April, 2021."},{"startTime":426.861,"endTime":429.611,"body":"Again, like the, the two things"},{"startTime":426.861,"endTime":429.611,"body":"that I just outlined, brought"},{"startTime":429.611,"endTime":433.231,"body":"us up to a $450 million, you've"},{"startTime":429.611,"endTime":433.231,"body":"got these claims on their money."},{"startTime":433.281,"endTime":436.731,"body":"And now you're taking out"},{"startTime":433.281,"endTime":436.731,"body":"a loan worth 450 million."},{"startTime":436.761,"endTime":439.101,"body":"So you paid $650"},{"startTime":436.761,"endTime":439.101,"body":"million for the company."},{"startTime":439.551,"endTime":441.821,"body":"You've essentially leveraged"},{"startTime":439.551,"endTime":441.821,"body":"a company 'cause it is"},{"startTime":441.821,"endTime":443.591,"body":"a $450 million loan."},{"startTime":443.891,"endTime":446.261,"body":"And then the loan along with"},{"startTime":443.891,"endTime":446.261,"body":"a hundred million dollars"},{"startTime":446.381,"endTime":448.091,"body":"in instant brand cash."},{"startTime":448.391,"endTime":452.171,"body":"Was allegedly used to fund"},{"startTime":448.391,"endTime":452.171,"body":"a $345 million dividend,"},{"startTime":452.471,"endTime":454.751,"body":"the majority of which went"},{"startTime":452.471,"endTime":454.751,"body":"to the primary stakeholder,"},{"startTime":454.751,"endTime":457.061,"body":"which is Cornell Capital"},{"startTime":454.751,"endTime":457.061,"body":"and its co-investors."},{"startTime":457.391,"endTime":457.541,"body":"Yep."},{"startTime":457.571,"endTime":459.631,"body":"So I don't we're at so"},{"startTime":457.571,"endTime":459.631,"body":"much money right now."},{"startTime":459.681,"endTime":460.791,"body":"I can't even count this high."},{"startTime":461.091,"endTime":465.201,"body":"And then eventually in January"},{"startTime":461.091,"endTime":465.201,"body":"20, 23, less than two years"},{"startTime":465.201,"endTime":467.571,"body":"after the dividend payout and"},{"startTime":465.201,"endTime":467.571,"body":"they're outta cash 'cause they"},{"startTime":467.571,"endTime":469.431,"body":"spent their hundred million"},{"startTime":467.571,"endTime":469.431,"body":"dollars in cash on dividends."},{"startTime":469.491,"endTime":469.701,"body":"Right."},{"startTime":470.091,"endTime":472.271,"body":"They have to file"},{"startTime":470.091,"endTime":472.271,"body":"for bankruptcy."},{"startTime":472.571,"endTime":473.891,"body":"In June, 2023."},{"startTime":474.191,"endTime":478.241,"body":"Yeah, so it says the tangible"},{"startTime":474.191,"endTime":478.241,"body":"assets of instant brands at"},{"startTime":478.241,"endTime":482.411,"body":"this point, January, 2023 is"},{"startTime":478.241,"endTime":482.411,"body":"estimated at $200 million."},{"startTime":482.511,"endTime":484.101,"body":"They've leveraged this"},{"startTime":482.511,"endTime":484.101,"body":"company for a billion"},{"startTime":484.101,"endTime":484.911,"body":"dollars at this point."},{"startTime":484.926,"endTime":488.406,"body":"We stacked up $200 million here,"},{"startTime":484.926,"endTime":488.406,"body":"$200 million there that's like,"},{"startTime":488.406,"endTime":489.576,"body":"that's like couch cushion money."},{"startTime":489.576,"endTime":491.226,"body":"I guess that's like,"},{"startTime":489.576,"endTime":491.226,"body":"that's where I go."},{"startTime":491.226,"endTime":491.766,"body":"My couch."},{"startTime":491.796,"endTime":491.976,"body":"No."},{"startTime":491.976,"endTime":493.746,"body":"Yeah, I mean somebody,"},{"startTime":491.976,"endTime":493.746,"body":"these these assets would"},{"startTime":493.746,"endTime":497.106,"body":"then used as collateral"},{"startTime":493.746,"endTime":497.106,"body":"for a 50 $55 million loan."},{"startTime":497.406,"endTime":499.926,"body":"From Cornell Capital"},{"startTime":497.406,"endTime":499.926,"body":"Partners, this maneuver"},{"startTime":499.976,"endTime":502.346,"body":"termed the unsub transaction."},{"startTime":502.646,"endTime":503.396,"body":"What does that mean?"},{"startTime":503.396,"endTime":506.216,"body":"Like somebody watches too much"},{"startTime":503.396,"endTime":506.216,"body":"CSI Is that what's happening?"},{"startTime":506.516,"endTime":510.316,"body":"UB, which, was allegedly"},{"startTime":506.516,"endTime":510.316,"body":"designated, was allegedly"},{"startTime":510.316,"endTime":512.596,"body":"designed to strip instant"},{"startTime":510.316,"endTime":512.596,"body":"brands of its remaining"},{"startTime":512.596,"endTime":516.316,"body":"valuable assets and shield the"},{"startTime":512.596,"endTime":516.316,"body":"earlier dividend payout from"},{"startTime":516.316,"endTime":518.536,"body":"scrutiny under bankruptcy laws."},{"startTime":518.836,"endTime":521.506,"body":"And then of course, they filed"},{"startTime":518.836,"endTime":521.506,"body":"for bankruptcy in June 20, 23."},{"startTime":521.506,"endTime":521.596,"body":"Three."},{"startTime":521.596,"endTime":522.886,"body":"I mean, you, you like"},{"startTime":521.596,"endTime":522.886,"body":"there's no way they can"},{"startTime":522.886,"endTime":523.606,"body":"pay back this money."},{"startTime":523.616,"endTime":525.266,"body":"They were circling the"},{"startTime":523.616,"endTime":525.266,"body":"drain the whole time."},{"startTime":525.271,"endTime":525.351,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":525.356,"endTime":525.656,"body":"right."},{"startTime":525.656,"endTime":528.426,"body":"So UN sub I believe"},{"startTime":525.656,"endTime":528.426,"body":"stands for unsubsidized."},{"startTime":528.726,"endTime":531.066,"body":"And then the complaint seeks"},{"startTime":528.726,"endTime":531.066,"body":"a comprehensive account"},{"startTime":531.066,"endTime":531.936,"body":"of financial maneuvers."},{"startTime":531.966,"endTime":534.546,"body":"The complaint says, I wanna know"},{"startTime":531.966,"endTime":534.546,"body":"everything and it requests the"},{"startTime":534.546,"endTime":538.716,"body":"court void, the $245 million"},{"startTime":534.546,"endTime":538.716,"body":"dividend and other payments"},{"startTime":538.716,"endTime":539.611,"body":"oh, 345 million."},{"startTime":539.661,"endTime":541.641,"body":"Additionally, the trustee's"},{"startTime":539.661,"endTime":541.641,"body":"asking for the recovery of the"},{"startTime":541.641,"endTime":544.041,"body":"value of those transfers is"},{"startTime":541.641,"endTime":544.041,"body":"seeking an award of no less"},{"startTime":544.041,"endTime":545.301,"body":"than 400 million to compensate."},{"startTime":545.541,"endTime":547.491,"body":"So they're basically"},{"startTime":545.541,"endTime":547.491,"body":"asking for the money back."},{"startTime":547.491,"endTime":549.141,"body":", And then some it"},{"startTime":547.491,"endTime":549.141,"body":"looks like, right?"},{"startTime":549.141,"endTime":549.201,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":549.201,"endTime":550.191,"body":"for punitive and whatever else."},{"startTime":550.191,"endTime":554.141,"body":"I'd like to follow this case"},{"startTime":550.191,"endTime":554.141,"body":"to see if they ever get any of"},{"startTime":554.141,"endTime":555.251,"body":"their money from private equity."},{"startTime":555.251,"endTime":558.041,"body":"I'm gonna go out on a limb"},{"startTime":555.251,"endTime":558.041,"body":"and say, ain't nobody getting"},{"startTime":558.041,"endTime":559.991,"body":"paid except for PE here."},{"startTime":560.041,"endTime":563.771,"body":"I wanted to read that article"},{"startTime":560.041,"endTime":563.771,"body":"about the downfall of a"},{"startTime":563.771,"endTime":567.381,"body":"brand that had , 300 and"},{"startTime":563.771,"endTime":567.381,"body":"something million dollars"},{"startTime":567.681,"endTime":571.281,"body":"in sales, like that year"},{"startTime":567.681,"endTime":571.281,"body":"when they filed bankruptcy."},{"startTime":571.371,"endTime":571.491,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":571.581,"endTime":573.251,"body":"They're a household"},{"startTime":571.581,"endTime":573.251,"body":"brand , you know?"},{"startTime":573.301,"endTime":575.221,"body":"So kind of surprising"},{"startTime":573.301,"endTime":575.221,"body":"to me that."},{"startTime":575.521,"endTime":579.301,"body":"the acquirers wouldn't do their"},{"startTime":575.521,"endTime":579.301,"body":"due diligence and then after"},{"startTime":579.301,"endTime":581.791,"body":"the fact come back and said,"},{"startTime":579.301,"endTime":581.791,"body":"you said, she said, he said,"},{"startTime":581.931,"endTime":584.221,"body":"honestly, reading that whole"},{"startTime":581.931,"endTime":584.221,"body":"article, it seems like they,"},{"startTime":584.221,"endTime":587.051,"body":"for whatever reason didn't"},{"startTime":584.221,"endTime":587.051,"body":"do their due diligence."},{"startTime":587.171,"endTime":588.701,"body":"Maybe they were buying"},{"startTime":587.171,"endTime":588.701,"body":"a, maybe they had a bunch"},{"startTime":588.701,"endTime":590.831,"body":"of m and as that year,"},{"startTime":588.701,"endTime":590.831,"body":"and they were overtaxed."},{"startTime":590.891,"endTime":591.611,"body":"Who knows?"},{"startTime":591.891,"endTime":594.321,"body":"But it sounds like they turned"},{"startTime":591.891,"endTime":594.321,"body":"around and really punished"},{"startTime":594.411,"endTime":596.121,"body":"that company  financially."},{"startTime":596.151,"endTime":598.971,"body":"they used their financial"},{"startTime":596.151,"endTime":598.971,"body":"tools to punish the company."},{"startTime":598.981,"endTime":600.181,"body":"That's the way"},{"startTime":598.981,"endTime":600.181,"body":"that article reads."},{"startTime":600.481,"endTime":603.091,"body":"Part of me wants to say"},{"startTime":600.481,"endTime":603.091,"body":"that's very unlikely."},{"startTime":603.241,"endTime":606.691,"body":"PEs don't do this as a routine,"},{"startTime":603.241,"endTime":606.691,"body":"make mistakes like this."},{"startTime":606.991,"endTime":611.191,"body":"Could it have been perhaps"},{"startTime":606.991,"endTime":611.191,"body":"a strategic ploy to"},{"startTime":611.311,"endTime":612.721,"body":"essentially write off?"},{"startTime":613.021,"endTime":614.521,"body":"Take that as a loss, right?"},{"startTime":614.521,"endTime":615.421,"body":"Buy and sync."},{"startTime":615.781,"endTime":616.321,"body":"The company."},{"startTime":616.321,"endTime":618.061,"body":"Take that as a loss"},{"startTime":616.321,"endTime":618.061,"body":"against all the other"},{"startTime":618.061,"endTime":619.111,"body":"assets that they may have."},{"startTime":619.111,"endTime":622.631,"body":"I'm just pontificating"},{"startTime":619.111,"endTime":622.631,"body":"here that that's possibly a"},{"startTime":622.631,"endTime":624.251,"body":"motive, but we don't know."},{"startTime":624.551,"endTime":626.321,"body":"Lawyers will get rich"},{"startTime":624.551,"endTime":626.321,"body":"off of this, I'm sure."},{"startTime":626.351,"endTime":627.791,"body":"There's lawsuits over lawsuits."},{"startTime":627.791,"endTime":628.091,"body":"Right."},{"startTime":628.391,"endTime":631.541,"body":"About the same time when they"},{"startTime":628.391,"endTime":631.541,"body":"did this, there was a huge"},{"startTime":631.541,"endTime":636.071,"body":"influx in the market of Instapot"},{"startTime":631.541,"endTime":636.071,"body":"clones other manufacturers"},{"startTime":636.071,"endTime":640.091,"body":"bringing their own versions"},{"startTime":636.071,"endTime":640.091,"body":"did the PE company rush it in?"},{"startTime":640.091,"endTime":642.281,"body":"Do this, would they have"},{"startTime":640.091,"endTime":642.281,"body":"been better off buying a"},{"startTime":642.281,"endTime":643.721,"body":"smaller company perhaps?"},{"startTime":643.721,"endTime":644.681,"body":"Who knows, right?"},{"startTime":644.861,"endTime":645.401,"body":"I don't know."},{"startTime":645.401,"endTime":646.961,"body":"I mean, it's like, you"},{"startTime":645.401,"endTime":646.961,"body":"kind of wonder about the"},{"startTime":646.961,"endTime":648.341,"body":"strategy behind this."},{"startTime":648.641,"endTime":651.891,"body":"this article my brain started"},{"startTime":648.641,"endTime":651.891,"body":"firing a million neurons a"},{"startTime":651.891,"endTime":654.281,"body":"second When I first read this"},{"startTime":651.891,"endTime":654.281,"body":"article, the first question"},{"startTime":654.281,"endTime":658.681,"body":"I said to myself is you know,"},{"startTime":654.281,"endTime":658.681,"body":"go going through a few private"},{"startTime":658.681,"endTime":660.886,"body":"equity M\u0026As in my career."},{"startTime":661.186,"endTime":663.616,"body":"Who, which, which, which,"},{"startTime":661.186,"endTime":663.616,"body":"for better or worse,"},{"startTime":663.646,"endTime":664.096,"body":"worse."},{"startTime":664.101,"endTime":664.551,"body":"or worse?"},{"startTime":664.551,"endTime":665.181,"body":"Even worse."},{"startTime":665.241,"endTime":665.601,"body":"Worse."},{"startTime":665.601,"endTime":666.441,"body":"Or even worser."},{"startTime":666.781,"endTime":667.711,"body":"Arguing Agile."},{"startTime":667.711,"endTime":669.151,"body":"Episode 61."},{"startTime":669.151,"endTime":670.381,"body":"Mergers and Acquisitions."},{"startTime":670.801,"endTime":671.551,"body":"Three years ago."},{"startTime":671.781,"endTime":672.591,"body":". Unbelievable."},{"startTime":672.666,"endTime":674.931,"body":"I know three years ago"},{"startTime":672.666,"endTime":674.931,"body":"that we did that episode."},{"startTime":674.931,"endTime":678.941,"body":"So because we did a podcast"},{"startTime":674.931,"endTime":678.941,"body":"on this exact topic."},{"startTime":679.211,"endTime":681.931,"body":"It got all cylinders"},{"startTime":679.211,"endTime":681.931,"body":"were fire in my brain."},{"startTime":682.181,"endTime":684.631,"body":"And I asked the question"},{"startTime":682.181,"endTime":684.631,"body":"does private equity"},{"startTime":684.931,"endTime":687.301,"body":"inherently destroy product?"},{"startTime":687.601,"endTime":691.561,"body":"and because you're here and"},{"startTime":687.601,"endTime":691.561,"body":"like good teams and good team"},{"startTime":691.561,"endTime":694.981,"body":"organizations and structures,"},{"startTime":691.561,"endTime":694.981,"body":"that was a question I wanted"},{"startTime":694.981,"endTime":696.151,"body":"to have a whole podcast about."},{"startTime":696.481,"endTime":697.051,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":697.051,"endTime":701.071,"body":"and you know, as an initial"},{"startTime":697.051,"endTime":701.071,"body":"reaction to that question, yes."},{"startTime":701.431,"endTime":702.951,"body":"I mean, that's the"},{"startTime":701.431,"endTime":702.951,"body":"initial reaction."},{"startTime":702.951,"endTime":704.121,"body":"Get the music again."},{"startTime":704.171,"endTime":706.421,"body":"If you look through"},{"startTime":704.171,"endTime":706.421,"body":"history and think about"},{"startTime":706.871,"endTime":708.221,"body":"companies that have been."},{"startTime":708.521,"endTime":712.781,"body":"Made more wholesome, made better"},{"startTime":708.521,"endTime":712.781,"body":"through private equity, that"},{"startTime":712.781,"endTime":716.401,"body":"list is much, much shorter than"},{"startTime":712.781,"endTime":716.401,"body":"companies that are on the other"},{"startTime":716.401,"endTime":717.571,"body":"side of the equation, right?"},{"startTime":717.631,"endTime":717.691,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":717.691,"endTime":718.201,"body":"Sadly."},{"startTime":718.471,"endTime":721.051,"body":"And not because"},{"startTime":718.471,"endTime":721.051,"body":"of any one reason."},{"startTime":721.111,"endTime":724.351,"body":"I mean, some of these reasons"},{"startTime":721.111,"endTime":724.351,"body":"are absolutely strategic, right?"},{"startTime":724.661,"endTime":728.041,"body":"I go back to the old days"},{"startTime":724.661,"endTime":728.041,"body":"of Sunbeam for example,"},{"startTime":728.041,"endTime":731.361,"body":"that was split apart into"},{"startTime":728.041,"endTime":731.361,"body":"many pieces by Al Dunlap."},{"startTime":731.361,"endTime":734.461,"body":"He came in to rescue the"},{"startTime":731.361,"endTime":734.461,"body":"company 'cause they were in deep"},{"startTime":734.461,"endTime":739.181,"body":"trouble and he broke it apart"},{"startTime":734.461,"endTime":739.181,"body":"into many pieces and sold each"},{"startTime":739.181,"endTime":742.031,"body":"one for a lot more than the"},{"startTime":739.181,"endTime":742.031,"body":"sum of the parts were worth."},{"startTime":742.241,"endTime":744.221,"body":"Same thing happened with"},{"startTime":742.241,"endTime":744.221,"body":"other companies, right?"},{"startTime":744.221,"endTime":745.511,"body":"Like Phillips, for example."},{"startTime":745.516,"endTime":745.646,"body":"Mm-hmm."},{"startTime":745.901,"endTime":749.371,"body":"So this isn't new, but"},{"startTime":745.901,"endTime":749.371,"body":"what is new is, the pace at"},{"startTime":749.371,"endTime":751.861,"body":"which this has been going"},{"startTime":749.371,"endTime":751.861,"body":"on over the last few years."},{"startTime":751.891,"endTime":754.261,"body":"We're gonna return to forum"},{"startTime":751.891,"endTime":754.261,"body":"for the podcast and actually"},{"startTime":754.261,"endTime":757.981,"body":"stick to the agenda because"},{"startTime":754.261,"endTime":757.981,"body":"there, there is a solid foreign"},{"startTime":757.981,"endTime":759.061,"body":"against in this category."},{"startTime":759.151,"endTime":759.361,"body":"Yep."},{"startTime":759.411,"endTime":762.861,"body":"And I, and I, I, I can"},{"startTime":759.411,"endTime":762.861,"body":"tell you from working for"},{"startTime":762.861,"endTime":767.001,"body":"PE backed firms for a good"},{"startTime":762.861,"endTime":767.001,"body":"part of my career I already"},{"startTime":767.001,"endTime":769.191,"body":"know all the arguing points."},{"startTime":769.191,"endTime":771.981,"body":"They're gonna have all, the"},{"startTime":769.191,"endTime":771.981,"body":"sales pitches and the biggest"},{"startTime":771.981,"endTime":775.371,"body":"one that they're gonna roll"},{"startTime":771.981,"endTime":775.371,"body":"out is they're gonna say, look,"},{"startTime":775.371,"endTime":777.351,"body":"we are professional managers."},{"startTime":777.651,"endTime":780.051,"body":"Like we have this"},{"startTime":777.651,"endTime":780.051,"body":"stuff on lockdown."},{"startTime":780.351,"endTime":783.921,"body":"We've got a great finance"},{"startTime":780.351,"endTime":783.921,"body":"department, an HR department,"},{"startTime":784.291,"endTime":786.511,"body":"we can take care of all"},{"startTime":784.291,"endTime":786.511,"body":"your admin overhead."},{"startTime":786.811,"endTime":788.911,"body":"You can just do the"},{"startTime":786.811,"endTime":788.911,"body":"creative, fun stuff."},{"startTime":788.971,"endTime":789.151,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":789.216,"endTime":792.186,"body":"I don't know how much of this we"},{"startTime":789.216,"endTime":792.186,"body":"hit in our previous podcast on"},{"startTime":792.186,"endTime":795.126,"body":"this topic when we went through"},{"startTime":792.186,"endTime":795.126,"body":"mergers and acquisitions, but"},{"startTime":795.126,"endTime":797.586,"body":"that is the thing that got"},{"startTime":795.126,"endTime":797.586,"body":"rolled out every single time."},{"startTime":797.586,"endTime":801.076,"body":"I think in that episode I talked"},{"startTime":797.586,"endTime":801.076,"body":"about going through four m and"},{"startTime":801.076,"endTime":805.036,"body":"a activities and the m and a"},{"startTime":801.076,"endTime":805.036,"body":"events, I don't know how I want"},{"startTime":805.036,"endTime":807.646,"body":"to call it, m and a iceberg"},{"startTime":805.036,"endTime":807.646,"body":"hitting four m and a icebergs."},{"startTime":808.006,"endTime":810.286,"body":"This got rolled out every"},{"startTime":808.006,"endTime":810.286,"body":"single time oh no, we're"},{"startTime":810.286,"endTime":812.026,"body":"professionals at this."},{"startTime":812.326,"endTime":812.566,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":812.616,"endTime":814.926,"body":"The keywords that get"},{"startTime":812.616,"endTime":814.926,"body":"thrown around when this"},{"startTime":814.926,"endTime":816.736,"body":"happens are synergy."},{"startTime":817.006,"endTime":820.666,"body":"acquiring you provides synergy"},{"startTime":817.006,"endTime":820.666,"body":"for you because we have,"},{"startTime":820.666,"endTime":823.441,"body":"like you said, the expertise,"},{"startTime":820.666,"endTime":823.441,"body":"well, there's the synergy."},{"startTime":823.441,"endTime":823.741,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":823.951,"endTime":825.871,"body":"So I would say that's a"},{"startTime":823.951,"endTime":825.871,"body":"different arguing point."},{"startTime":825.871,"endTime":827.341,"body":"I would say number"},{"startTime":825.871,"endTime":827.341,"body":"one, they say like."},{"startTime":827.661,"endTime":830.896,"body":"Oh, we're gonna eliminate all"},{"startTime":827.661,"endTime":830.896,"body":"of your corporate recruiters"},{"startTime":830.986,"endTime":834.346,"body":"and finance staff and HR staff"},{"startTime":830.986,"endTime":834.346,"body":"and whatever, because we have"},{"startTime":834.406,"endTime":836.506,"body":"corporate finance and HR now."},{"startTime":836.746,"endTime":836.986,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":837.196,"endTime":838.816,"body":"So we're gonna fire"},{"startTime":837.196,"endTime":838.816,"body":"all those people."},{"startTime":839.116,"endTime":841.036,"body":"' cause you know, 'cause"},{"startTime":839.116,"endTime":841.036,"body":"'cause none of them were"},{"startTime":841.036,"endTime":843.106,"body":"valuable in getting you"},{"startTime":841.036,"endTime":843.106,"body":"to where you are today."},{"startTime":843.346,"endTime":844.936,"body":"You're gonna use"},{"startTime":843.346,"endTime":844.936,"body":"all of our people."},{"startTime":845.176,"endTime":848.056,"body":"Yeah that are like cut rate"},{"startTime":845.176,"endTime":848.056,"body":"outta wherever we got 'em from"},{"startTime":848.286,"endTime":850.776,"body":"and that's some sort of winning"},{"startTime":848.286,"endTime":850.776,"body":"effect, you know what I mean?"},{"startTime":850.926,"endTime":853.656,"body":"So, so but that is separate"},{"startTime":850.926,"endTime":853.656,"body":"is what you just said is"},{"startTime":853.656,"endTime":856.116,"body":"like the synergy of, to say"},{"startTime":853.656,"endTime":856.116,"body":"well we bought Brian and O'S"},{"startTime":856.116,"endTime":857.566,"body":"product development company."},{"startTime":857.666,"endTime":859.166,"body":"Brian and O'S software"},{"startTime":857.666,"endTime":859.166,"body":"development company"},{"startTime":859.296,"endTime":861.026,"body":"makes software widgets."},{"startTime":861.356,"endTime":862.736,"body":"For people that love widgets."},{"startTime":862.736,"endTime":865.756,"body":"Yes , the greatest widget"},{"startTime":862.736,"endTime":865.756,"body":"producing company in the world."},{"startTime":866.056,"endTime":868.896,"body":"We bought Timmy's software"},{"startTime":866.056,"endTime":868.896,"body":"development company and"},{"startTime":868.896,"endTime":872.286,"body":"they make widgets produced"},{"startTime":868.896,"endTime":872.286,"body":"and sold B2B enterprise."},{"startTime":872.736,"endTime":874.746,"body":"And then we bought Timmy's"},{"startTime":872.736,"endTime":874.746,"body":"software development company"},{"startTime":874.746,"endTime":876.816,"body":"and the other part, and,"},{"startTime":874.746,"endTime":876.816,"body":"and Timmy is like direct to"},{"startTime":876.816,"endTime":880.006,"body":"consumer B2C he makes mobile"},{"startTime":876.816,"endTime":880.006,"body":"games or something like that."},{"startTime":880.066,"endTime":880.186,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":880.216,"endTime":882.856,"body":"So they're synergies,"},{"startTime":880.216,"endTime":882.856,"body":"we're gonna put your"},{"startTime":882.856,"endTime":883.606,"body":"two companies together."},{"startTime":883.656,"endTime":887.256,"body":", They're, do those things relate"},{"startTime":883.656,"endTime":887.256,"body":"to each other because they're,"},{"startTime":887.256,"endTime":889.596,"body":"quote software development,"},{"startTime":887.256,"endTime":889.596,"body":"they're completely the same."},{"startTime":889.746,"endTime":890.496,"body":"I don't think so."},{"startTime":890.546,"endTime":894.236,"body":"When you're pitching widget"},{"startTime":890.546,"endTime":894.236,"body":"creation, your salespeople are"},{"startTime":894.236,"endTime":895.496,"body":"in there saying oh, by the way."},{"startTime":895.886,"endTime":897.746,"body":"We got this mobile game company."},{"startTime":897.746,"endTime":900.176,"body":"You want some mobile games with"},{"startTime":897.746,"endTime":900.176,"body":"your widgets and the companies"},{"startTime":900.176,"endTime":901.316,"body":"are like, get outta here."},{"startTime":901.416,"endTime":903.486,"body":"Why would I need mobile"},{"startTime":901.416,"endTime":903.486,"body":"games and widgets?"},{"startTime":903.486,"endTime":906.696,"body":"These things are not related"},{"startTime":903.486,"endTime":906.696,"body":"at all, but to these guys"},{"startTime":906.696,"endTime":908.436,"body":"who don't know anything"},{"startTime":906.696,"endTime":908.436,"body":"about software development."},{"startTime":908.736,"endTime":911.406,"body":"It's just a bunch of"},{"startTime":908.736,"endTime":911.406,"body":"nerds typing on keyboards."},{"startTime":911.456,"endTime":913.586,"body":"Of course there are"},{"startTime":911.456,"endTime":913.586,"body":"lots of nuances there."},{"startTime":913.586,"endTime":915.806,"body":"There're uneven, subtle,"},{"startTime":913.586,"endTime":915.806,"body":"different sales channels"},{"startTime":915.836,"endTime":916.556,"body":"all of that stuff."},{"startTime":916.976,"endTime":917.486,"body":"I agree."},{"startTime":917.486,"endTime":919.826,"body":"The other phrase that gets"},{"startTime":917.486,"endTime":919.826,"body":"thrown around a lot here,"},{"startTime":919.916,"endTime":921.236,"body":"economies of scale, right?"},{"startTime":921.236,"endTime":923.726,"body":"Like you said, we have"},{"startTime":921.236,"endTime":923.726,"body":"corporate hr, corporate"},{"startTime":923.726,"endTime":925.136,"body":"finance, corporate legals."},{"startTime":925.136,"endTime":928.016,"body":"We don't need those"},{"startTime":925.136,"endTime":928.016,"body":"functions at the various"},{"startTime":928.016,"endTime":929.096,"body":"entity levels, right?"},{"startTime":929.496,"endTime":931.616,"body":"that's a selling"},{"startTime":929.496,"endTime":931.616,"body":"argument this is good"},{"startTime":931.616,"endTime":932.876,"body":"for you, trust us, right?"},{"startTime":932.916,"endTime":936.306,"body":"we'll give you efficiency"},{"startTime":932.916,"endTime":936.306,"body":"by doing it this way and"},{"startTime":936.426,"endTime":937.386,"body":"the expertise, right?"},{"startTime":937.386,"endTime":939.156,"body":"We've been doing it"},{"startTime":937.386,"endTime":939.156,"body":"for a long, long time."},{"startTime":939.266,"endTime":941.306,"body":"The holding company has"},{"startTime":939.266,"endTime":941.306,"body":"grown by acquiring all"},{"startTime":941.306,"endTime":942.686,"body":"these other companies."},{"startTime":942.836,"endTime":943.346,"body":"Sorry."},{"startTime":943.446,"endTime":945.576,"body":"I, I hear what you're saying"},{"startTime":943.446,"endTime":945.576,"body":"and I understand the spirit"},{"startTime":945.576,"endTime":947.856,"body":"of what you're saying, but"},{"startTime":945.576,"endTime":947.856,"body":"in all, all this, all I hear"},{"startTime":947.856,"endTime":949.596,"body":"is conceit and assumption."},{"startTime":950.016,"endTime":953.136,"body":"The typical part of my product"},{"startTime":950.016,"endTime":953.136,"body":"role where I have to challenge"},{"startTime":953.136,"endTime":956.326,"body":"people is to ask do you"},{"startTime":953.136,"endTime":956.326,"body":"actually know that or are you"},{"startTime":956.416,"endTime":959.776,"body":"assuming that, and can you"},{"startTime":956.416,"endTime":959.776,"body":"point me to evidence or bring"},{"startTime":959.776,"endTime":963.556,"body":"a person in that, that, that"},{"startTime":959.776,"endTime":963.556,"body":"has evidence and I'm used to"},{"startTime":963.556,"endTime":966.406,"body":"having conversations like that"},{"startTime":963.556,"endTime":966.406,"body":"and they can get slightly tense."},{"startTime":966.706,"endTime":969.586,"body":"But coming from private equity"},{"startTime":966.706,"endTime":969.586,"body":"where the adults in the room"},{"startTime":969.986,"endTime":972.566,"body":"are saying that, it sure sounds"},{"startTime":969.986,"endTime":972.566,"body":"like another podcast where I've"},{"startTime":972.566,"endTime":975.836,"body":"said like, the diagnosis is,"},{"startTime":972.566,"endTime":975.836,"body":"you've got dip theory, take"},{"startTime":975.836,"endTime":978.116,"body":"two Motrin and keep it elevated"},{"startTime":975.836,"endTime":978.116,"body":"and call me in the morning."},{"startTime":978.266,"endTime":980.096,"body":"They don't point"},{"startTime":978.266,"endTime":980.096,"body":"at evidence right?"},{"startTime":980.096,"endTime":982.256,"body":"They look back and say,"},{"startTime":980.096,"endTime":982.256,"body":"look at our history."},{"startTime":982.316,"endTime":985.556,"body":"We have grown leaps and bounds"},{"startTime":982.316,"endTime":985.556,"body":"over the last five years, 10"},{"startTime":985.556,"endTime":988.986,"body":"years, whatever through this"},{"startTime":985.556,"endTime":988.986,"body":"strategy of acquisition, right?"},{"startTime":989.146,"endTime":991.876,"body":"And we will integrate"},{"startTime":989.146,"endTime":991.876,"body":"your little company"},{"startTime":991.876,"endTime":993.376,"body":"into the greater fold."},{"startTime":993.776,"endTime":997.506,"body":"But if you're looking for actual"},{"startTime":993.776,"endTime":997.506,"body":"evidence none to be found here."},{"startTime":997.556,"endTime":999.356,"body":"What about companies"},{"startTime":997.556,"endTime":999.356,"body":"that went through a PE"},{"startTime":999.356,"endTime":1002.776,"body":"acquisition or examples"},{"startTime":999.356,"endTime":1002.776,"body":"to be held up for success?"},{"startTime":1003.106,"endTime":1004.936,"body":"You know, there's a few"},{"startTime":1003.106,"endTime":1004.936,"body":"of them out there that got"},{"startTime":1004.936,"endTime":1008.396,"body":"acquired by PE that have"},{"startTime":1004.936,"endTime":1008.396,"body":"grown probably and become"},{"startTime":1008.396,"endTime":1009.656,"body":"more profitable over time."},{"startTime":1009.656,"endTime":1011.546,"body":"Although I can't think of"},{"startTime":1009.656,"endTime":1011.546,"body":"a single one right now."},{"startTime":1011.596,"endTime":1014.776,"body":"I don't know of any like that,"},{"startTime":1011.596,"endTime":1014.776,"body":"that are stellar examples."},{"startTime":1014.776,"endTime":1015.346,"body":"I'm sure there are."},{"startTime":1015.346,"endTime":1018.356,"body":"It would take a deliberate"},{"startTime":1015.346,"endTime":1018.356,"body":"strategy to succeed with"},{"startTime":1018.356,"endTime":1022.256,"body":"a niche company or product"},{"startTime":1018.356,"endTime":1022.256,"body":"line for that to happen."},{"startTime":1022.676,"endTime":1025.586,"body":"Way long ago in my career, I"},{"startTime":1022.676,"endTime":1025.586,"body":"worked for a holding company"},{"startTime":1025.586,"endTime":1029.206,"body":"that acquired peripherals"},{"startTime":1025.586,"endTime":1029.206,"body":"companies or hardware, they"},{"startTime":1029.206,"endTime":1032.326,"body":"acquired two competitors going"},{"startTime":1029.206,"endTime":1032.326,"body":"after the same market space"},{"startTime":1032.326,"endTime":1033.616,"body":"with different technologies."},{"startTime":1033.616,"endTime":1035.941,"body":"One was band printing, one"},{"startTime":1033.616,"endTime":1035.941,"body":"was dot matrix printing."},{"startTime":1036.416,"endTime":1039.296,"body":"That shows you how old I'm,"},{"startTime":1036.416,"endTime":1039.296,"body":"but the com, the holding"},{"startTime":1039.296,"endTime":1041.126,"body":"company held onto those, right?"},{"startTime":1041.131,"endTime":1043.351,"body":"I. Oh, I, I got,"},{"startTime":1041.131,"endTime":1043.351,"body":"I have a couple."},{"startTime":1043.381,"endTime":1044.671,"body":"I just ran a quick"},{"startTime":1043.381,"endTime":1044.671,"body":"Google search."},{"startTime":1044.671,"endTime":1048.151,"body":"So it says, dollar General"},{"startTime":1044.671,"endTime":1048.151,"body":"was bought by KKR in 2007."},{"startTime":1048.151,"endTime":1050.761,"body":"That led to operational"},{"startTime":1048.151,"endTime":1050.761,"body":"improvements and expansion,"},{"startTime":1050.761,"endTime":1053.401,"body":"resulting in a successful"},{"startTime":1050.761,"endTime":1053.401,"body":"IPO and significant"},{"startTime":1053.401,"endTime":1054.181,"body":"return for investors."},{"startTime":1054.181,"endTime":1056.191,"body":"It says Hilton Worldwide."},{"startTime":1056.191,"endTime":1057.181,"body":"Blackstone bought it."},{"startTime":1057.261,"endTime":1059.361,"body":"That's, I'm not gonna talk"},{"startTime":1057.261,"endTime":1059.361,"body":"about evil companies today."},{"startTime":1059.631,"endTime":1062.301,"body":"It says, beats Electronics"},{"startTime":1059.631,"endTime":1062.301,"body":"Carlisle Group bought them and"},{"startTime":1062.301,"endTime":1064.281,"body":"then sold them to Apple River."},{"startTime":1064.281,"endTime":1066.291,"body":"Capital Management"},{"startTime":1064.281,"endTime":1066.291,"body":"acquired Chrysler."},{"startTime":1066.291,"endTime":1067.761,"body":"I don't know if that's"},{"startTime":1066.291,"endTime":1067.761,"body":"such a great story."},{"startTime":1068.041,"endTime":1068.671,"body":"Burger King."},{"startTime":1068.671,"endTime":1068.911,"body":"Wow."},{"startTime":1068.911,"endTime":1069.901,"body":"Burger King's on this list."},{"startTime":1070.231,"endTime":1072.571,"body":"Hey, listen, PE I'll buy"},{"startTime":1070.231,"endTime":1072.571,"body":"Burger King from you."},{"startTime":1072.571,"endTime":1075.481,"body":"I, I definitely know how to"},{"startTime":1072.571,"endTime":1075.481,"body":"make Burger King successful."},{"startTime":1075.991,"endTime":1077.821,"body":"The rest of the examples"},{"startTime":1075.991,"endTime":1077.821,"body":"here from this Google search,"},{"startTime":1077.821,"endTime":1078.811,"body":"like they're not good."},{"startTime":1078.811,"endTime":1081.241,"body":"But, what I find"},{"startTime":1078.811,"endTime":1081.241,"body":"absolutely hilarious."},{"startTime":1081.541,"endTime":1084.361,"body":"I just ran this quick Google"},{"startTime":1081.541,"endTime":1084.361,"body":"search and I just asked it"},{"startTime":1084.361,"endTime":1087.991,"body":"for companies that have grown"},{"startTime":1084.361,"endTime":1087.991,"body":"successfully through private"},{"startTime":1087.991,"endTime":1091.741,"body":"equity, and it gave me this"},{"startTime":1087.991,"endTime":1091.741,"body":"list, a lot of which are weak"},{"startTime":1091.741,"endTime":1094.021,"body":"examples, but then for some"},{"startTime":1091.741,"endTime":1094.021,"body":"reason at the bottom of the"},{"startTime":1094.021,"endTime":1097.111,"body":"list it, it says companies,"},{"startTime":1094.021,"endTime":1097.111,"body":"that private equity just"},{"startTime":1097.111,"endTime":1098.611,"body":"destroyed like toys or us."},{"startTime":1098.971,"endTime":1100.651,"body":"Which is deserves"},{"startTime":1098.971,"endTime":1100.651,"body":"its own episode."},{"startTime":1100.651,"endTime":1101.461,"body":"That's, that's funny."},{"startTime":1101.461,"endTime":1104.591,"body":"It, it gave me a, a list of"},{"startTime":1101.461,"endTime":1104.591,"body":"failed private equity companies."},{"startTime":1105.091,"endTime":1108.041,"body":"Anyway, let's get back to the"},{"startTime":1105.091,"endTime":1108.041,"body":"topic of does private equity"},{"startTime":1108.041,"endTime":1109.301,"body":"inherently destroy product?"},{"startTime":1109.301,"endTime":1111.791,"body":"There's two big issues that"},{"startTime":1109.301,"endTime":1111.791,"body":"have happened at every single"},{"startTime":1111.791,"endTime":1114.681,"body":"private equity firm that I've"},{"startTime":1111.791,"endTime":1114.681,"body":"seen and I'll see if you push"},{"startTime":1114.681,"endTime":1116.211,"body":"back against this or not."},{"startTime":1116.571,"endTime":1119.601,"body":"Number one, I would say you"},{"startTime":1116.571,"endTime":1119.601,"body":"need consistency of leadership"},{"startTime":1119.601,"endTime":1123.771,"body":"in order to determine a vision,"},{"startTime":1119.601,"endTime":1123.771,"body":"a, a good product, a strategy,"},{"startTime":1123.981,"endTime":1124.851,"body":"whatever you wanna call it."},{"startTime":1125.061,"endTime":1128.211,"body":"And PE firms generally"},{"startTime":1125.061,"endTime":1128.211,"body":"have a higher turnover"},{"startTime":1128.211,"endTime":1130.101,"body":"at the leadership level"},{"startTime":1128.211,"endTime":1130.101,"body":"of these companies."},{"startTime":1130.521,"endTime":1132.801,"body":"And they don't retain the people"},{"startTime":1130.521,"endTime":1132.801,"body":"that build the vision and the"},{"startTime":1132.801,"endTime":1135.401,"body":"strategy, which is the founders,"},{"startTime":1132.801,"endTime":1135.401,"body":"these people are usually"},{"startTime":1135.401,"endTime":1137.081,"body":"gone when PE buys a company."},{"startTime":1137.111,"endTime":1140.411,"body":"And I would also say it's"},{"startTime":1137.111,"endTime":1140.411,"body":"probably hard to attract people"},{"startTime":1140.411,"endTime":1144.311,"body":"with this deep vision and"},{"startTime":1140.411,"endTime":1144.311,"body":"understanding of their, their"},{"startTime":1144.431,"endTime":1145.751,"body":"product, their market segment."},{"startTime":1146.121,"endTime":1148.671,"body":"Because the professional"},{"startTime":1146.121,"endTime":1148.671,"body":"managerial classes running"},{"startTime":1148.671,"endTime":1150.911,"body":"these operations and the"},{"startTime":1148.671,"endTime":1150.911,"body":"founders are all gone."},{"startTime":1151.211,"endTime":1153.521,"body":"So the second hot take,"},{"startTime":1151.211,"endTime":1153.521,"body":"I didn't know these were"},{"startTime":1153.581,"endTime":1154.391,"body":"turning into hot takes."},{"startTime":1154.391,"endTime":1155.501,"body":"What They are the"},{"startTime":1154.391,"endTime":1155.501,"body":"second hot take."},{"startTime":1155.801,"endTime":1157.271,"body":"And the one that really"},{"startTime":1155.801,"endTime":1157.271,"body":"never gets to talk about"},{"startTime":1157.271,"endTime":1159.881,"body":"in the news is this debt"},{"startTime":1157.271,"endTime":1159.881,"body":"servicing, debt leveraging"},{"startTime":1160.031,"endTime":1160.931,"body":"thing that's going on."},{"startTime":1161.411,"endTime":1163.241,"body":"We're gonna load you down"},{"startTime":1161.411,"endTime":1163.241,"body":"with debt and you don't"},{"startTime":1163.241,"endTime":1164.111,"body":"have any say in the matter."},{"startTime":1164.111,"endTime":1167.621,"body":"And now you have to do extra"},{"startTime":1164.111,"endTime":1167.621,"body":"jumping jacks just to say fit,"},{"startTime":1167.861,"endTime":1170.291,"body":"like it's hard enough to build"},{"startTime":1167.861,"endTime":1170.291,"body":"a product and keep customers"},{"startTime":1170.291,"endTime":1173.501,"body":"happy and pay the bills and"},{"startTime":1170.291,"endTime":1173.501,"body":"not have to cut anyone on the"},{"startTime":1173.501,"endTime":1176.822,"body":"team and, and all this kind of"},{"startTime":1173.501,"endTime":1176.822,"body":"stuff while they're not using"},{"startTime":1176.822,"endTime":1178.412,"body":"your company as a piggy bank."},{"startTime":1178.907,"endTime":1182.187,"body":"And then forcing you to pay"},{"startTime":1178.907,"endTime":1182.187,"body":"this debt that they use to,"},{"startTime":1182.397,"endTime":1183.957,"body":"to buy you as a company."},{"startTime":1184.207,"endTime":1184.447,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":1184.507,"endTime":1185.947,"body":"It used to be called"},{"startTime":1184.507,"endTime":1185.947,"body":"over-leveraging."},{"startTime":1185.977,"endTime":1189.357,"body":"Lemme just go back to what you"},{"startTime":1185.977,"endTime":1189.357,"body":"said earlier about losing that"},{"startTime":1189.357,"endTime":1193.587,"body":"core expertise, the core talent"},{"startTime":1189.357,"endTime":1193.587,"body":"of the company they acquired."},{"startTime":1193.617,"endTime":1196.127,"body":"Perhaps it was the"},{"startTime":1193.617,"endTime":1196.127,"body":"entrepreneurial spirit that"},{"startTime":1196.127,"endTime":1197.507,"body":"drove it to where it is."},{"startTime":1197.507,"endTime":1197.837,"body":"Right?"},{"startTime":1198.287,"endTime":1201.812,"body":"And that might have been an"},{"startTime":1198.287,"endTime":1201.812,"body":"actual strategy by the inventor"},{"startTime":1201.812,"endTime":1205.252,"body":"of the company to get it to a"},{"startTime":1201.812,"endTime":1205.252,"body":"certain point and then sell it."},{"startTime":1205.302,"endTime":1208.482,"body":"But the PA firms do not"},{"startTime":1205.302,"endTime":1208.482,"body":"have that expertise."},{"startTime":1208.482,"endTime":1211.242,"body":"They don't have the drive"},{"startTime":1208.482,"endTime":1211.242,"body":"that the other person had."},{"startTime":1211.542,"endTime":1214.272,"body":"It's basically nothing more"},{"startTime":1211.542,"endTime":1214.272,"body":"than a sell and a spreadsheet"},{"startTime":1214.272,"endTime":1215.262,"body":"at some point, right?"},{"startTime":1215.482,"endTime":1218.212,"body":"so, consequently what"},{"startTime":1215.482,"endTime":1218.212,"body":"happens is you are just"},{"startTime":1218.212,"endTime":1219.412,"body":"looking at raw numbers."},{"startTime":1219.442,"endTime":1221.392,"body":"Is the company red"},{"startTime":1219.442,"endTime":1221.392,"body":"or is it green?"},{"startTime":1221.452,"endTime":1221.782,"body":"Right."},{"startTime":1222.112,"endTime":1224.842,"body":"Coming back to how we're"},{"startTime":1222.112,"endTime":1224.842,"body":"gonna take this company"},{"startTime":1224.842,"endTime":1227.572,"body":"and we're gonna say keep"},{"startTime":1224.842,"endTime":1227.572,"body":"running, by the way, we've"},{"startTime":1227.872,"endTime":1229.192,"body":"load you down with debt."},{"startTime":1229.312,"endTime":1229.672,"body":"Right."},{"startTime":1229.672,"endTime":1233.062,"body":"And, and overburdened you stay"},{"startTime":1229.672,"endTime":1233.062,"body":"keep your head above water."},{"startTime":1233.362,"endTime":1235.102,"body":"That is a very"},{"startTime":1233.362,"endTime":1235.102,"body":"challenging situation."},{"startTime":1235.102,"endTime":1238.702,"body":"Because that company that was an"},{"startTime":1235.102,"endTime":1238.702,"body":"entrepreneurial company was used"},{"startTime":1238.702,"endTime":1241.192,"body":"to inventing things, perhaps."},{"startTime":1241.312,"endTime":1243.262,"body":"And they can't do that because"},{"startTime":1241.312,"endTime":1243.262,"body":"now you have to service your"},{"startTime":1243.262,"endTime":1247.312,"body":"debt before you can have"},{"startTime":1243.262,"endTime":1247.312,"body":"what's termed as luxury funds."},{"startTime":1247.342,"endTime":1247.672,"body":"Right."},{"startTime":1247.672,"endTime":1248.302,"body":"To invent."},{"startTime":1248.312,"endTime":1250.302,"body":"Some people are gonna say, oh,"},{"startTime":1248.312,"endTime":1250.302,"body":"you always gotta pay your bills"},{"startTime":1250.302,"endTime":1251.322,"body":"why is that such a big thing?"},{"startTime":1251.512,"endTime":1253.822,"body":"Where I would push back on"},{"startTime":1251.512,"endTime":1253.822,"body":"that is I would say, yeah,"},{"startTime":1253.872,"endTime":1257.712,"body":"you do have to pay your"},{"startTime":1253.872,"endTime":1257.712,"body":"bills, but you probably got"},{"startTime":1257.712,"endTime":1261.372,"body":"to this area of success with"},{"startTime":1257.712,"endTime":1261.372,"body":"a certain amount of money."},{"startTime":1261.702,"endTime":1265.992,"body":"Spent on a regular basis"},{"startTime":1261.702,"endTime":1265.992,"body":"towards r and d. Yep."},{"startTime":1266.112,"endTime":1268.122,"body":"Innovation, whatever you"},{"startTime":1266.112,"endTime":1268.122,"body":"wanna call experimentation,"},{"startTime":1268.122,"endTime":1268.782,"body":"whatever you wanna call it."},{"startTime":1268.782,"endTime":1270.852,"body":"Like we would call it"},{"startTime":1268.782,"endTime":1270.852,"body":"experimentation, right?"},{"startTime":1271.302,"endTime":1274.882,"body":"Percentage of your roadmap"},{"startTime":1271.302,"endTime":1274.882,"body":"that goes to trying new things,"},{"startTime":1274.942,"endTime":1278.882,"body":"doing cool things, Doing cool"},{"startTime":1274.942,"endTime":1278.882,"body":"things is not something you can"},{"startTime":1278.882,"endTime":1280.652,"body":"write onto the balance sheet."},{"startTime":1280.952,"endTime":1283.902,"body":"Clearly for the PE guys"},{"startTime":1280.952,"endTime":1283.902,"body":"when they're like, Hey,"},{"startTime":1283.902,"endTime":1285.432,"body":"how come you're not,"},{"startTime":1283.902,"endTime":1285.432,"body":"you know what I mean?"},{"startTime":1285.432,"endTime":1288.312,"body":"People are asking for"},{"startTime":1285.432,"endTime":1288.312,"body":"white instant pots."},{"startTime":1288.312,"endTime":1290.592,"body":"Why aren't you creating"},{"startTime":1288.312,"endTime":1290.592,"body":"white instant pots?"},{"startTime":1290.592,"endTime":1293.682,"body":"Why are they all this metallic"},{"startTime":1290.592,"endTime":1293.682,"body":"color from a PE perspective,"},{"startTime":1293.682,"endTime":1296.192,"body":"that's one of the first things"},{"startTime":1293.682,"endTime":1296.192,"body":"that gets cut, because they"},{"startTime":1296.192,"endTime":1297.662,"body":"don't understand the need."},{"startTime":1297.992,"endTime":1299.882,"body":"To experiment in"},{"startTime":1297.992,"endTime":1299.882,"body":"order to innovate."},{"startTime":1300.362,"endTime":1302.522,"body":"So yeah, we're an"},{"startTime":1300.362,"endTime":1302.522,"body":"Insta Park company."},{"startTime":1302.522,"endTime":1303.542,"body":"Just create them, right?"},{"startTime":1303.542,"endTime":1305.332,"body":"Just make 'em, what"},{"startTime":1303.542,"endTime":1305.332,"body":"color have they been?"},{"startTime":1305.362,"endTime":1306.322,"body":"They've been selling fine."},{"startTime":1306.802,"endTime":1308.942,"body":"You don't need to be any"},{"startTime":1306.802,"endTime":1308.942,"body":"other color look at the"},{"startTime":1308.942,"endTime":1310.502,"body":"signals in the market first."},{"startTime":1310.562,"endTime":1310.712,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":1310.982,"endTime":1314.462,"body":"I came to this subject for"},{"startTime":1310.982,"endTime":1314.462,"body":"the podcast with this thread"},{"startTime":1314.462,"endTime":1316.202,"body":"I was reading, and all these"},{"startTime":1314.462,"endTime":1316.202,"body":"people are like, oh, I got"},{"startTime":1316.202,"endTime":1317.492,"body":"all these product suggestions."},{"startTime":1317.492,"endTime":1319.082,"body":"And I'm like, that's great."},{"startTime":1319.322,"endTime":1321.182,"body":"They're product"},{"startTime":1319.322,"endTime":1321.182,"body":"suggestions are great."},{"startTime":1321.212,"endTime":1323.762,"body":"Like companies will bend"},{"startTime":1321.212,"endTime":1323.762,"body":"over backwards for actual"},{"startTime":1323.762,"endTime":1326.882,"body":"users that come in as like,"},{"startTime":1323.762,"endTime":1326.882,"body":"Hey, I own two instant pots."},{"startTime":1327.182,"endTime":1330.332,"body":"I would love an instant pot that"},{"startTime":1327.182,"endTime":1330.332,"body":"also had X, Y, z , the problem"},{"startTime":1330.332,"endTime":1333.432,"body":"is they've cut the people that"},{"startTime":1330.332,"endTime":1333.432,"body":"listen to all your suggestions."},{"startTime":1333.792,"endTime":1336.312,"body":"This actually hits home"},{"startTime":1333.792,"endTime":1336.312,"body":"for me specifically as"},{"startTime":1336.312,"endTime":1337.692,"body":"a customer of Instapot."},{"startTime":1337.692,"endTime":1338.442,"body":"I have two of 'em."},{"startTime":1338.682,"endTime":1339.942,"body":"My daughter took my third one."},{"startTime":1340.132,"endTime":1342.532,"body":"one of the things that"},{"startTime":1340.132,"endTime":1342.532,"body":"bothered me from the get go"},{"startTime":1342.532,"endTime":1345.832,"body":"is why do I have to have an"},{"startTime":1342.532,"endTime":1345.832,"body":"instapot that does almost"},{"startTime":1345.832,"endTime":1348.322,"body":"everything that I needed to"},{"startTime":1345.832,"endTime":1348.322,"body":"do, but almost not quite?"},{"startTime":1348.622,"endTime":1351.952,"body":"And I have to have a pressure"},{"startTime":1348.622,"endTime":1351.952,"body":"cooker that's a separate device."},{"startTime":1352.072,"endTime":1352.132,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":1352.192,"endTime":1355.822,"body":"Why can't I use an Instapot"},{"startTime":1352.192,"endTime":1355.822,"body":"as a pressure cooker?"},{"startTime":1355.972,"endTime":1359.812,"body":"So that is a piece of"},{"startTime":1355.972,"endTime":1359.812,"body":"functionality that I"},{"startTime":1359.812,"endTime":1361.702,"body":"would've paid a premium for."},{"startTime":1361.702,"endTime":1365.062,"body":"I'd have replaced one of my"},{"startTime":1361.702,"endTime":1365.062,"body":"Insta pots for a single device."},{"startTime":1365.062,"endTime":1366.622,"body":"Never happened we now know why."},{"startTime":1366.622,"endTime":1368.972,"body":"But you know, that's something"},{"startTime":1366.622,"endTime":1368.972,"body":"that perhaps the original"},{"startTime":1368.972,"endTime":1370.652,"body":"owners might have listened to."},{"startTime":1370.712,"endTime":1373.852,"body":"And also the funny thing about"},{"startTime":1370.712,"endTime":1373.852,"body":"this is all this was avoidable."},{"startTime":1374.152,"endTime":1377.602,"body":"If it weren't for the special"},{"startTime":1374.152,"endTime":1377.602,"body":"dividend, they had a hundred"},{"startTime":1377.602,"endTime":1379.492,"body":"million dollars on hand cash."},{"startTime":1379.912,"endTime":1381.682,"body":"The company's"},{"startTime":1379.912,"endTime":1381.682,"body":"worth $200 million."},{"startTime":1381.982,"endTime":1384.652,"body":"So basically they had 50% of"},{"startTime":1381.982,"endTime":1384.652,"body":"their evaluation, which is"},{"startTime":1384.652,"endTime":1385.882,"body":"a luxury in most companies."},{"startTime":1386.102,"endTime":1387.297,"body":"That's a lot of cash"},{"startTime":1386.102,"endTime":1387.297,"body":"to have on hand."},{"startTime":1387.447,"endTime":1390.457,"body":"I mean, they could have"},{"startTime":1387.447,"endTime":1390.457,"body":"spun up a million dollar"},{"startTime":1390.507,"endTime":1395.247,"body":"$2 million, six month side"},{"startTime":1390.507,"endTime":1395.247,"body":"project to experiment with"},{"startTime":1395.657,"endTime":1396.887,"body":"pressure cookers or whatever."},{"startTime":1396.937,"endTime":1399.577,"body":"But when you have to spend a"},{"startTime":1396.937,"endTime":1399.577,"body":"hundred percent of the cash you"},{"startTime":1399.577,"endTime":1403.147,"body":"have on hand for a ridiculous"},{"startTime":1399.577,"endTime":1403.147,"body":"dividend to people that"},{"startTime":1403.237,"endTime":1404.797,"body":"already don't need the money."},{"startTime":1404.847,"endTime":1409.082,"body":"It's not like PE firm was"},{"startTime":1404.847,"endTime":1409.082,"body":"on the ropes ridiculous."},{"startTime":1409.422,"endTime":1411.222,"body":"They just wanted to"},{"startTime":1409.422,"endTime":1411.222,"body":"extract as much cash."},{"startTime":1411.522,"endTime":1413.172,"body":"and load them down"},{"startTime":1411.522,"endTime":1413.172,"body":"with debt as possible."},{"startTime":1413.172,"endTime":1416.202,"body":"that's what all this"},{"startTime":1413.172,"endTime":1416.202,"body":"evidence leads me to believe."},{"startTime":1416.502,"endTime":1417.102,"body":"Wild."},{"startTime":1417.162,"endTime":1417.972,"body":"Absolutely wild."},{"startTime":1418.162,"endTime":1420.612,"body":"We didn't even talk about"},{"startTime":1418.162,"endTime":1420.612,"body":"the pressure on the employees"},{"startTime":1420.852,"endTime":1423.317,"body":"at that point nobody cares"},{"startTime":1420.852,"endTime":1423.317,"body":"about pressure on employees."},{"startTime":1423.322,"endTime":1425.502,"body":"You got $320 million revenue."},{"startTime":1425.802,"endTime":1427.392,"body":"What a terrible"},{"startTime":1425.802,"endTime":1427.392,"body":"job you're doing."},{"startTime":1427.392,"endTime":1430.422,"body":"I can't even, I couldn't, I"},{"startTime":1427.392,"endTime":1430.422,"body":"couldn't even fathom somebody"},{"startTime":1430.422,"endTime":1434.667,"body":"coming in and be like, Brian,"},{"startTime":1430.422,"endTime":1434.667,"body":"your product brought in $324"},{"startTime":1434.667,"endTime":1436.032,"body":"million in revenue this year."},{"startTime":1436.392,"endTime":1439.572,"body":"I can't believe how"},{"startTime":1436.392,"endTime":1439.572,"body":"terrible job you're doing."},{"startTime":1439.872,"endTime":1442.692,"body":"I would kick them straight"},{"startTime":1439.872,"endTime":1442.692,"body":"outta my, like I would"},{"startTime":1442.692,"endTime":1445.602,"body":"DJ jazzy Jeff, kick them"},{"startTime":1442.692,"endTime":1445.602,"body":"straight outta, my fresh"},{"startTime":1445.602,"endTime":1448.032,"body":"Prince, prince Bella mansion."},{"startTime":1448.032,"endTime":1448.242,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":1448.572,"endTime":1450.402,"body":"Like it would be ridiculous."},{"startTime":1450.552,"endTime":1452.592,"body":"PE firms are not the"},{"startTime":1450.552,"endTime":1452.592,"body":"innovation fairy godmothers"},{"startTime":1452.752,"endTime":1456.022,"body":"that would be the suggestion to"},{"startTime":1452.752,"endTime":1456.022,"body":"try to stave off some of this"},{"startTime":1456.072,"endTime":1457.872,"body":"to draw a hard line in the sand."},{"startTime":1458.172,"endTime":1461.412,"body":"To say we absolutely have"},{"startTime":1458.172,"endTime":1461.412,"body":"to have a percentage of our"},{"startTime":1461.412,"endTime":1465.642,"body":"revenue dedicated towards"},{"startTime":1461.412,"endTime":1465.642,"body":"innovation and, that percentage"},{"startTime":1465.672,"endTime":1469.362,"body":"is untouchable and have"},{"startTime":1465.672,"endTime":1469.362,"body":"that in the contracts down"},{"startTime":1469.362,"endTime":1472.032,"body":"to that level so that it"},{"startTime":1469.362,"endTime":1472.032,"body":"absolutely cannot be touched."},{"startTime":1472.182,"endTime":1475.062,"body":"The problem with that"},{"startTime":1472.182,"endTime":1475.062,"body":"is the PE people will be"},{"startTime":1475.062,"endTime":1476.772,"body":"like, that's cute kid."},{"startTime":1477.082,"endTime":1478.972,"body":"Get outta my office"},{"startTime":1477.082,"endTime":1478.972,"body":"and do what I said."},{"startTime":1479.092,"endTime":1481.642,"body":"This suggestion might come"},{"startTime":1479.092,"endTime":1481.642,"body":"from if you've retained"},{"startTime":1481.642,"endTime":1484.582,"body":"anybody from the company you"},{"startTime":1481.642,"endTime":1484.582,"body":"acquired on the board, perhaps."},{"startTime":1484.582,"endTime":1484.912,"body":"Right."},{"startTime":1485.122,"endTime":1487.422,"body":"It might come from them"},{"startTime":1485.122,"endTime":1487.422,"body":"because they know the value of"},{"startTime":1487.422,"endTime":1490.002,"body":"it, and this might even be a"},{"startTime":1487.422,"endTime":1490.002,"body":"condition of them staying on"},{"startTime":1490.002,"endTime":1491.524,"body":"or selling I mean, it's good."},{"startTime":1491.564,"endTime":1491.804,"body":"I think so."},{"startTime":1491.884,"endTime":1492.084,"body":"A plan?"},{"startTime":1492.084,"endTime":1494.729,"body":"I think so, but again, we're"},{"startTime":1492.084,"endTime":1494.729,"body":"not aware of anything like"},{"startTime":1494.729,"endTime":1497.069,"body":"this actually happening, but"},{"startTime":1494.729,"endTime":1497.069,"body":"again, these are people that"},{"startTime":1497.069,"endTime":1499.019,"body":"have financially engineered."},{"startTime":1499.409,"endTime":1500.669,"body":"The downfall of the company."},{"startTime":1500.879,"endTime":1503.729,"body":"So you don't think they're"},{"startTime":1500.879,"endTime":1503.729,"body":"smart enough to be like, oh,"},{"startTime":1503.999,"endTime":1506.999,"body":"10% of your budget has to"},{"startTime":1503.999,"endTime":1506.999,"body":"go back into RD. Okay, cool."},{"startTime":1507.179,"endTime":1510.629,"body":"Except it's gonna go to"},{"startTime":1507.179,"endTime":1510.629,"body":"Brian's r and d firm."},{"startTime":1510.929,"endTime":1513.749,"body":"Brian's RD firm, and you"},{"startTime":1510.929,"endTime":1513.749,"body":"gotta use my employees."},{"startTime":1513.749,"endTime":1516.959,"body":"And every dollar that goes"},{"startTime":1513.749,"endTime":1516.959,"body":"into Brian's RD firm you know"},{"startTime":1517.069,"endTime":1520.339,"body":"90 cents on the dollar goes"},{"startTime":1517.069,"endTime":1520.339,"body":"back to Brian's pocket, right?"},{"startTime":1520.339,"endTime":1523.579,"body":"And then 10 cents goes actually"},{"startTime":1520.339,"endTime":1523.579,"body":"into his actual company for"},{"startTime":1523.579,"endTime":1527.009,"body":"r and d, that, these people"},{"startTime":1523.579,"endTime":1527.009,"body":"are smarter and, and also"},{"startTime":1527.009,"endTime":1529.049,"body":"also have less morals in you."},{"startTime":1529.049,"endTime":1530.159,"body":"So there's that."},{"startTime":1530.549,"endTime":1530.939,"body":"Agreed."},{"startTime":1531.349,"endTime":1534.779,"body":"Let's talk about a second"},{"startTime":1531.349,"endTime":1534.779,"body":"category which is almost as"},{"startTime":1534.779,"endTime":1538.259,"body":"important as a first, which"},{"startTime":1534.779,"endTime":1538.259,"body":"is, can product-led growth"},{"startTime":1538.529,"endTime":1540.599,"body":"survive private equity?"},{"startTime":1540.899,"endTime":1544.139,"body":"earlier we put up some examples"},{"startTime":1540.899,"endTime":1544.139,"body":"of companies that did, They"},{"startTime":1544.439,"endTime":1547.124,"body":"weren't the best examples, but"},{"startTime":1544.439,"endTime":1547.124,"body":"there were some I was gonna say,"},{"startTime":1547.124,"endTime":1549.314,"body":"a lot of those on that list,"},{"startTime":1547.124,"endTime":1549.314,"body":"that were private equity, it was"},{"startTime":1549.314,"endTime":1551.774,"body":"like PE had like a small Yes."},{"startTime":1551.779,"endTime":1552.009,"body":"Investment."},{"startTime":1552.109,"endTime":1552.329,"body":"Yes."},{"startTime":1552.404,"endTime":1553.994,"body":"It was like Airbnb"},{"startTime":1552.404,"endTime":1553.994,"body":"and stuff like that."},{"startTime":1554.044,"endTime":1556.084,"body":"private equity was"},{"startTime":1554.044,"endTime":1556.084,"body":"like a partner to them,"},{"startTime":1556.084,"endTime":1557.584,"body":"not a whole owner."},{"startTime":1557.584,"endTime":1557.734,"body":"Correct."},{"startTime":1557.734,"endTime":1559.634,"body":"It was basically, seed"},{"startTime":1557.734,"endTime":1559.634,"body":"funding to get 'em out"},{"startTime":1559.634,"endTime":1561.014,"body":"of orbit a partial fund."},{"startTime":1561.014,"endTime":1561.154,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":1561.429,"endTime":1562.569,"body":"So that's a different ballgame."},{"startTime":1562.569,"endTime":1564.919,"body":"The claim in this category,"},{"startTime":1562.569,"endTime":1564.919,"body":"I found some numbers here."},{"startTime":1564.919,"endTime":1566.899,"body":"It says that companies that."},{"startTime":1567.154,"endTime":1571.474,"body":"Practice product-led growth,"},{"startTime":1567.154,"endTime":1571.474,"body":"typically reinvest in product"},{"startTime":1571.474,"endTime":1574.814,"body":"development and the user"},{"startTime":1571.474,"endTime":1574.814,"body":"experience at a much higher"},{"startTime":1574.814,"endTime":1578.024,"body":"rate, like a factor higher"},{"startTime":1574.814,"endTime":1578.024,"body":"rate than PE-backed companies."},{"startTime":1578.234,"endTime":1582.504,"body":"So and again, that probably"},{"startTime":1578.234,"endTime":1582.504,"body":"is like wholly due to the fact"},{"startTime":1582.534,"endTime":1585.274,"body":"that all these PE companies"},{"startTime":1582.534,"endTime":1585.274,"body":"are strapped with debt."},{"startTime":1585.584,"endTime":1589.704,"body":"If you have to pay 20% of"},{"startTime":1585.584,"endTime":1589.704,"body":"your entire margin to debt,"},{"startTime":1590.034,"endTime":1591.174,"body":"no matter what you do."},{"startTime":1591.354,"endTime":1591.534,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":1591.624,"endTime":1593.694,"body":"O obviously you're gonna"},{"startTime":1591.624,"endTime":1593.694,"body":"have less RD money."},{"startTime":1594.024,"endTime":1598.284,"body":"The strongest argument in"},{"startTime":1594.024,"endTime":1598.284,"body":"this category can product-led"},{"startTime":1598.284,"endTime":1600.054,"body":"growth survive private equity?"},{"startTime":1600.354,"endTime":1604.644,"body":"Is the odd numbered Star"},{"startTime":1600.354,"endTime":1604.644,"body":"Trek movies stink, and"},{"startTime":1604.644,"endTime":1607.044,"body":"the even numbered Star"},{"startTime":1604.644,"endTime":1607.044,"body":"Trek movies are great,"},{"startTime":1607.244,"endTime":1609.764,"body":"in order to make this case"},{"startTime":1607.244,"endTime":1609.764,"body":"to you, I'm gonna point out"},{"startTime":1610.044,"endTime":1613.704,"body":"remember, I'm arguing on"},{"startTime":1610.044,"endTime":1613.704,"body":"behalf of private equity here."},{"startTime":1613.884,"endTime":1614.184,"body":"Okay."},{"startTime":1614.484,"endTime":1616.764,"body":"Star Trek the Motion"},{"startTime":1614.484,"endTime":1616.764,"body":"picture was made on a budget"},{"startTime":1616.764,"endTime":1619.884,"body":"of $46 million in 1979."},{"startTime":1620.014,"endTime":1621.994,"body":"They made this movie"},{"startTime":1620.014,"endTime":1621.994,"body":"because Star Wars came out"},{"startTime":1621.994,"endTime":1623.494,"body":"made a bunch of money, and"},{"startTime":1621.994,"endTime":1623.494,"body":"they're like, we should"},{"startTime":1623.499,"endTime":1624.844,"body":"make a bunch of money too."},{"startTime":1625.064,"endTime":1631.404,"body":"adjusted for today $152 million"},{"startTime":1625.064,"endTime":1631.404,"body":"budget, a gross of $460 million."},{"startTime":1631.764,"endTime":1634.854,"body":"So $46 million budget in 1979."},{"startTime":1635.154,"endTime":1638.444,"body":"139 million gross in 1979."},{"startTime":1638.744,"endTime":1640.214,"body":"So that's a good"},{"startTime":1638.744,"endTime":1640.214,"body":"take on your money."},{"startTime":1640.574,"endTime":1641.714,"body":"Yes, definitely success, right?"},{"startTime":1641.864,"endTime":1643.904,"body":"But paramount was"},{"startTime":1641.864,"endTime":1643.904,"body":"not happy with it."},{"startTime":1644.249,"endTime":1649.049,"body":"Because they're like, dude, I"},{"startTime":1644.249,"endTime":1649.049,"body":"spent $150 million on this film."},{"startTime":1649.319,"endTime":1651.449,"body":"You only gave me three x return."},{"startTime":1651.569,"endTime":1653.939,"body":"And they want like 10"},{"startTime":1651.569,"endTime":1653.939,"body":"x, a hundred x, right?"},{"startTime":1653.939,"endTime":1654.749,"body":"Yeah, of course."},{"startTime":1655.229,"endTime":1658.319,"body":"So the curse of the Star"},{"startTime":1655.229,"endTime":1658.319,"body":"Trek movie, like Wrath of"},{"startTime":1658.319,"endTime":1661.439,"body":"Khan, star Trek 2, 19 82."},{"startTime":1661.439,"endTime":1663.879,"body":"That's three years"},{"startTime":1661.439,"endTime":1663.879,"body":"later the budget."},{"startTime":1663.879,"endTime":1667.704,"body":"You can see the budget went"},{"startTime":1663.879,"endTime":1667.704,"body":"from 46 million almost in 1979."},{"startTime":1667.754,"endTime":1669.104,"body":"To 11 million."},{"startTime":1669.154,"endTime":1669.629,"body":"Which is insane."},{"startTime":1669.629,"endTime":1670.439,"body":"That's insane."},{"startTime":1670.439,"endTime":1672.569,"body":"That when 46 million,"},{"startTime":1670.439,"endTime":1672.569,"body":"they basically got their"},{"startTime":1672.569,"endTime":1676.109,"body":"budget slashed by into a"},{"startTime":1672.569,"endTime":1676.109,"body":"quarter of what they had."},{"startTime":1676.109,"endTime":1678.269,"body":"And also they had, their"},{"startTime":1676.109,"endTime":1678.269,"body":"big showrunner removed."},{"startTime":1678.449,"endTime":1678.959,"body":"Crazy."},{"startTime":1678.959,"endTime":1680.069,"body":"Just absolute bananas."},{"startTime":1680.069,"endTime":1681.599,"body":"Moves behind the scenes."},{"startTime":1681.699,"endTime":1684.829,"body":". Huge reduction in budget,"},{"startTime":1681.699,"endTime":1684.829,"body":"huge removal of staff this"},{"startTime":1684.829,"endTime":1686.659,"body":"is like our equivalent"},{"startTime":1684.829,"endTime":1686.659,"body":"of removing founders."},{"startTime":1686.809,"endTime":1687.859,"body":"27 million."},{"startTime":1687.889,"endTime":1689.569,"body":"adjusted numbers"},{"startTime":1687.889,"endTime":1689.569,"body":"for today's money."},{"startTime":1689.689,"endTime":1692.274,"body":"Monopoly money, 27.9"},{"startTime":1689.689,"endTime":1692.274,"body":"million to produce."},{"startTime":1692.574,"endTime":1697.284,"body":"Made 240, 241 0.9 million,"},{"startTime":1692.574,"endTime":1697.284,"body":"but basically all nearly 10"},{"startTime":1697.284,"endTime":1702.504,"body":"x so a, a pe person would see"},{"startTime":1697.284,"endTime":1702.504,"body":"this and say, Hey, I reduced"},{"startTime":1702.504,"endTime":1705.444,"body":"your budget by four times,"},{"startTime":1705.544,"endTime":1708.834,"body":"and you made almost 10 times the"},{"startTime":1705.544,"endTime":1708.834,"body":"money off of the movie, right?"},{"startTime":1708.864,"endTime":1711.594,"body":"It's less than the original"},{"startTime":1708.864,"endTime":1711.594,"body":"one, but the multiplier"},{"startTime":1711.774,"endTime":1712.434,"body":"of what they made,"},{"startTime":1712.484,"endTime":1715.274,"body":"the reason I bring up this"},{"startTime":1712.484,"endTime":1715.274,"body":"discussion is because the"},{"startTime":1715.274,"endTime":1718.094,"body":"private equity people will"},{"startTime":1715.274,"endTime":1718.094,"body":"tell you financial pressure"},{"startTime":1718.364,"endTime":1721.994,"body":"forces focus on the highest"},{"startTime":1718.364,"endTime":1721.994,"body":"converting features."},{"startTime":1722.294,"endTime":1723.464,"body":"The highest converting features."},{"startTime":1723.464,"endTime":1725.924,"body":"Meaning if I pressure"},{"startTime":1723.464,"endTime":1725.924,"body":"you and cut your budget"},{"startTime":1725.974,"endTime":1727.984,"body":"down to a quarter of"},{"startTime":1725.974,"endTime":1727.984,"body":"what you used to have."},{"startTime":1728.034,"endTime":1729.864,"body":"You'll produce great stuff."},{"startTime":1730.024,"endTime":1732.784,"body":"And we got evidence, like"},{"startTime":1730.024,"endTime":1732.784,"body":"they'll point to this evidence."},{"startTime":1733.174,"endTime":1735.454,"body":"Did I talk about survivorship"},{"startTime":1733.174,"endTime":1735.454,"body":"bias already in the"},{"startTime":1735.454,"endTime":1739.354,"body":"podcast where I was like,"},{"startTime":1735.454,"endTime":1739.354,"body":"just because one out of 1"},{"startTime":1739.354,"endTime":1741.879,"body":"million times you survived."},{"startTime":1742.279,"endTime":1745.069,"body":"That means that every other"},{"startTime":1742.279,"endTime":1745.069,"body":"case in the entire world, you'll"},{"startTime":1745.069,"endTime":1748.849,"body":"survive because one company"},{"startTime":1745.069,"endTime":1748.849,"body":"survived under this duress."},{"startTime":1749.059,"endTime":1752.399,"body":"Cutting funding automatically"},{"startTime":1749.059,"endTime":1752.399,"body":"means you are cutting out"},{"startTime":1752.699,"endTime":1756.364,"body":"funding for things like"},{"startTime":1752.699,"endTime":1756.364,"body":"experimentation trials, right?"},{"startTime":1756.674,"endTime":1757.934,"body":"AB testing perhaps."},{"startTime":1757.964,"endTime":1761.984,"body":"So how is that going"},{"startTime":1757.964,"endTime":1761.984,"body":"to lead to more."},{"startTime":1762.079,"endTime":1765.919,"body":"Revenue if you are"},{"startTime":1762.079,"endTime":1765.919,"body":"experimenting less well,"},{"startTime":1766.019,"endTime":1766.979,"body":"that's a really good question."},{"startTime":1766.979,"endTime":1767.549,"body":"Let me answer that."},{"startTime":1767.599,"endTime":1768.139,"body":"I don't care."},{"startTime":1769.639,"endTime":1772.039,"body":"I just wanna make money"},{"startTime":1769.639,"endTime":1772.039,"body":"spoken like a true PE person."},{"startTime":1772.039,"endTime":1772.789,"body":"I'm super greedy."},{"startTime":1772.909,"endTime":1773.929,"body":"That's, that's I don't care."},{"startTime":1774.064,"endTime":1774.979,"body":"I don't care how you get it."},{"startTime":1774.979,"endTime":1775.489,"body":"Just get it."},{"startTime":1775.669,"endTime":1775.999,"body":"Sorry."},{"startTime":1775.999,"endTime":1778.183,"body":"I didn't even consider trying"},{"startTime":1775.999,"endTime":1778.183,"body":"to argue at that point."},{"startTime":1778.183,"endTime":1779.803,"body":"I was like, I don't care"},{"startTime":1778.183,"endTime":1779.803,"body":"here's your budget kid."},{"startTime":1779.833,"endTime":1781.363,"body":"Can you do a Boss Hog accent?"},{"startTime":1781.663,"endTime":1784.793,"body":"what we haven't talked about"},{"startTime":1781.663,"endTime":1784.793,"body":"is that data-driven decision"},{"startTime":1784.793,"endTime":1788.693,"body":"making requires a certain"},{"startTime":1784.793,"endTime":1788.693,"body":"amount of tooling, a lot of"},{"startTime":1788.693,"endTime":1791.673,"body":"companies I've started with,"},{"startTime":1788.693,"endTime":1791.673,"body":"hit success and then just"},{"startTime":1791.673,"endTime":1795.413,"body":"start growing they never turn"},{"startTime":1791.673,"endTime":1795.413,"body":"around and say Hmm, you know"},{"startTime":1795.413,"endTime":1798.503,"body":"what we should build some"},{"startTime":1795.413,"endTime":1798.503,"body":"features in to let us measure"},{"startTime":1798.863,"endTime":1800.453,"body":"exactly how successful we are."},{"startTime":1800.483,"endTime":1802.303,"body":"They never really do"},{"startTime":1800.483,"endTime":1802.303,"body":"that until I'm there."},{"startTime":1802.303,"endTime":1805.183,"body":"So I'll always make a case"},{"startTime":1802.303,"endTime":1805.183,"body":"to say, Hey, y'all should"},{"startTime":1805.183,"endTime":1808.513,"body":"be measuring to try to"},{"startTime":1805.183,"endTime":1808.513,"body":"help orient yourself over"},{"startTime":1808.513,"endTime":1809.623,"body":"the long period of time."},{"startTime":1809.953,"endTime":1813.013,"body":"And then I'll try to carve off"},{"startTime":1809.953,"endTime":1813.013,"body":"some percentage of my roadmap."},{"startTime":1813.383,"endTime":1815.843,"body":"But I would expect, if you're"},{"startTime":1813.383,"endTime":1815.843,"body":"under this debt and you're"},{"startTime":1815.843,"endTime":1818.063,"body":"under this pressure and"},{"startTime":1815.843,"endTime":1818.063,"body":"whatnot, this like, oh, well,"},{"startTime":1818.063,"endTime":1820.853,"body":"there's no revenue directly"},{"startTime":1818.063,"endTime":1820.853,"body":"behind those features."},{"startTime":1821.153,"endTime":1823.663,"body":"And people are not going out"},{"startTime":1821.153,"endTime":1823.663,"body":"of their way to say if we"},{"startTime":1823.663,"endTime":1827.368,"body":"do X, Y, and Z and use the"},{"startTime":1823.663,"endTime":1827.368,"body":"data to do this other thing,"},{"startTime":1827.398,"endTime":1828.748,"body":"maybe we can make less money."},{"startTime":1828.798,"endTime":1829.878,"body":"There's hops in there."},{"startTime":1829.878,"endTime":1832.398,"body":"It is not exactly like"},{"startTime":1829.878,"endTime":1832.398,"body":"we build this feature and"},{"startTime":1832.398,"endTime":1833.418,"body":"there'll be this much revenue,"},{"startTime":1833.468,"endTime":1835.238,"body":"We build this feature,"},{"startTime":1833.468,"endTime":1835.238,"body":"there'll be this much"},{"startTime":1835.478,"endTime":1836.408,"body":"savings or whatever."},{"startTime":1836.408,"endTime":1840.368,"body":"It's like we build this feature,"},{"startTime":1836.408,"endTime":1840.368,"body":"we can measure these things"},{"startTime":1840.848,"endTime":1844.658,"body":"and then we can make a decision"},{"startTime":1840.848,"endTime":1844.658,"body":"that might lead towards like,"},{"startTime":1844.658,"endTime":1847.718,"body":"that's too many hops for"},{"startTime":1844.658,"endTime":1847.718,"body":"private equity, too many hops."},{"startTime":1847.718,"endTime":1851.288,"body":"And it usually gets"},{"startTime":1847.718,"endTime":1851.288,"body":"labeled as internal work."},{"startTime":1851.348,"endTime":1851.888,"body":"Internal work,"},{"startTime":1851.888,"endTime":1853.658,"body":"so then that's frowned upon."},{"startTime":1853.688,"endTime":1854.318,"body":"Yeah, exactly."},{"startTime":1854.618,"endTime":1855.523,"body":"And it's like no, straight out."},{"startTime":1855.523,"endTime":1855.613,"body":"Yes."},{"startTime":1855.613,"endTime":1857.653,"body":"You know, it's inefficient."},{"startTime":1857.683,"endTime":1858.013,"body":"Right."},{"startTime":1858.013,"endTime":1860.453,"body":"So make sure that we're"},{"startTime":1858.013,"endTime":1860.453,"body":"focused on efficiency."},{"startTime":1860.503,"endTime":1862.813,"body":"Any improvements to onboarding"},{"startTime":1860.503,"endTime":1862.813,"body":"also goes in this category,"},{"startTime":1862.813,"endTime":1865.723,"body":"which, which involves there's a,"},{"startTime":1862.813,"endTime":1865.723,"body":"there was a big market downturn"},{"startTime":1865.723,"endTime":1869.063,"body":"in the last two years or so with"},{"startTime":1865.723,"endTime":1869.063,"body":"UI and ux and there was a lot of"},{"startTime":1869.063,"endTime":1872.963,"body":"like people online griping about"},{"startTime":1869.063,"endTime":1872.963,"body":"like, well, companies are kind"},{"startTime":1872.963,"endTime":1876.393,"body":"of like shortcut in the future"},{"startTime":1872.963,"endTime":1876.393,"body":"if they're shortcut in ux that"},{"startTime":1876.393,"endTime":1877.383,"body":"goes in this category as well."},{"startTime":1877.383,"endTime":1878.913,"body":"But the one I really"},{"startTime":1877.383,"endTime":1878.913,"body":"wanna talk about is."},{"startTime":1879.198,"endTime":1880.608,"body":"Community building."},{"startTime":1880.908,"endTime":1884.198,"body":"the idea that you're creating"},{"startTime":1880.908,"endTime":1884.198,"body":"a product that you could very"},{"startTime":1884.198,"endTime":1888.308,"body":"easily build a community around,"},{"startTime":1884.198,"endTime":1888.308,"body":"and you don't wanna spend any"},{"startTime":1888.308,"endTime":1890.318,"body":"time doing community building."},{"startTime":1890.568,"endTime":1893.298,"body":"we had a great episode that"},{"startTime":1890.568,"endTime":1893.298,"body":"everybody should listen to"},{"startTime":1893.738,"endTime":1897.878,"body":"arguing Agile, 96 stages of"},{"startTime":1893.738,"endTime":1897.878,"body":"company decline or when a"},{"startTime":1897.878,"endTime":1899.888,"body":"company hates their customers."},{"startTime":1900.088,"endTime":1902.578,"body":"That was the episode we did"},{"startTime":1900.088,"endTime":1902.578,"body":"about lizards and wizards."},{"startTime":1902.578,"endTime":1903.808,"body":"our faux gaming company"},{"startTime":1904.108,"endTime":1905.278,"body":"you never know."},{"startTime":1905.278,"endTime":1906.208,"body":"Who knows."},{"startTime":1906.208,"endTime":1906.718,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":1907.078,"endTime":1909.948,"body":"By the way, that company"},{"startTime":1907.078,"endTime":1909.948,"body":"is they've also continued"},{"startTime":1909.948,"endTime":1912.288,"body":"taking a downturn since"},{"startTime":1909.948,"endTime":1912.288,"body":"we did that episode."},{"startTime":1912.528,"endTime":1914.478,"body":"It's almost like you could"},{"startTime":1912.528,"endTime":1914.478,"body":"lift our episodes and"},{"startTime":1914.478,"endTime":1916.338,"body":"just bet against those"},{"startTime":1914.478,"endTime":1916.338,"body":"companies in the market."},{"startTime":1916.428,"endTime":1919.368,"body":"And make money a gaming"},{"startTime":1916.428,"endTime":1919.368,"body":"company like that, your"},{"startTime":1919.368,"endTime":1921.588,"body":"community are the people"},{"startTime":1919.368,"endTime":1921.588,"body":"that use your products"},{"startTime":1921.688,"endTime":1924.298,"body":"And enjoy them and run"},{"startTime":1921.688,"endTime":1924.298,"body":"games on a regular basis"},{"startTime":1924.478,"endTime":1925.498,"body":"with regular players."},{"startTime":1925.738,"endTime":1927.238,"body":"It's almost as if you could."},{"startTime":1927.598,"endTime":1931.598,"body":"Hire some people and have"},{"startTime":1927.598,"endTime":1931.598,"body":"them start understanding who"},{"startTime":1931.598,"endTime":1934.448,"body":"the most influential people"},{"startTime":1931.598,"endTime":1934.448,"body":"are in your community, how"},{"startTime":1934.448,"endTime":1937.208,"body":"wide their voice goes, what"},{"startTime":1934.448,"endTime":1937.208,"body":"you can do to help them out,"},{"startTime":1937.208,"endTime":1938.558,"body":"what you can learn from them."},{"startTime":1938.713,"endTime":1942.213,"body":"and just like a community"},{"startTime":1938.713,"endTime":1942.213,"body":"manager type of position."},{"startTime":1942.513,"endTime":1944.373,"body":"Maybe they don't"},{"startTime":1942.513,"endTime":1944.373,"body":"necessarily manage anyone,"},{"startTime":1944.428,"endTime":1946.573,"body":"a community listener is"},{"startTime":1944.428,"endTime":1946.573,"body":"really what they are."},{"startTime":1947.728,"endTime":1947.762,"body":"A liaison type of person."},{"startTime":1947.767,"endTime":1947.853,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":1947.858,"endTime":1948.358,"body":"Liaison."},{"startTime":1948.358,"endTime":1952.168,"body":"And you can call it like a"},{"startTime":1948.358,"endTime":1952.168,"body":"marketing position, honestly."},{"startTime":1952.198,"endTime":1952.288,"body":"Sure."},{"startTime":1952.288,"endTime":1953.548,"body":"I mean, that's the"},{"startTime":1952.288,"endTime":1953.548,"body":"way I think about it."},{"startTime":1953.698,"endTime":1957.028,"body":"But in reality, it's a"},{"startTime":1953.698,"endTime":1957.028,"body":"long-term investment position."},{"startTime":1957.448,"endTime":1960.068,"body":"And  I see them all the"},{"startTime":1957.448,"endTime":1960.068,"body":"time going through big"},{"startTime":1960.068,"endTime":1961.468,"body":"waves where they just cut."},{"startTime":1961.828,"endTime":1963.988,"body":"Big swaths of people like this."},{"startTime":1964.318,"endTime":1966.658,"body":"I'm not quite sure how"},{"startTime":1964.318,"endTime":1966.658,"body":"this person connects to"},{"startTime":1966.658,"endTime":1968.188,"body":"direct bottom line revenue."},{"startTime":1968.188,"endTime":1968.278,"body":"Right?"},{"startTime":1968.698,"endTime":1970.438,"body":"It's not a hundred"},{"startTime":1968.698,"endTime":1970.438,"body":"percent clear to me."},{"startTime":1970.488,"endTime":1970.848,"body":"Yes."},{"startTime":1970.878,"endTime":1973.938,"body":"And just cut large swaths of"},{"startTime":1970.878,"endTime":1973.938,"body":"these people and they cut people"},{"startTime":1973.938,"endTime":1977.868,"body":"to have like deep relations with"},{"startTime":1973.938,"endTime":1977.868,"body":"influencers that can make or"},{"startTime":1977.868,"endTime":1979.758,"body":"break your product over time."},{"startTime":1980.058,"endTime":1980.598,"body":"I agree."},{"startTime":1980.598,"endTime":1982.908,"body":"one of the things you could look"},{"startTime":1980.598,"endTime":1982.908,"body":"at is, those people that are"},{"startTime":1982.908,"endTime":1986.228,"body":"good at this work, some people"},{"startTime":1982.908,"endTime":1986.228,"body":"are community builders, when"},{"startTime":1986.228,"endTime":1990.218,"body":"these people get let go from"},{"startTime":1986.228,"endTime":1990.218,"body":"these companies, they land at."},{"startTime":1990.523,"endTime":1993.643,"body":"one of the competitor companies"},{"startTime":1990.523,"endTime":1993.643,"body":"and see how well they do there."},{"startTime":1993.823,"endTime":1996.433,"body":"It's like, you cut too"},{"startTime":1993.823,"endTime":1996.433,"body":"close to the bone here."},{"startTime":1996.463,"endTime":1996.793,"body":"Right?"},{"startTime":1996.793,"endTime":1999.703,"body":"it's either that or they"},{"startTime":1996.793,"endTime":1999.703,"body":"pivot to a completely"},{"startTime":1999.703,"endTime":2001.263,"body":"different industry."},{"startTime":2001.293,"endTime":2002.943,"body":"And then your whole"},{"startTime":2001.293,"endTime":2002.943,"body":"industry loses out, but"},{"startTime":2002.943,"endTime":2004.293,"body":"you definitely lose out."},{"startTime":2004.693,"endTime":2008.803,"body":"I've known people who can"},{"startTime":2004.693,"endTime":2008.803,"body":"build communities like"},{"startTime":2008.808,"endTime":2011.778,"body":"team builder folks, scrum"},{"startTime":2008.808,"endTime":2011.778,"body":"masters, agile coaches,"},{"startTime":2011.778,"endTime":2012.918,"body":"that type of person, right?"},{"startTime":2013.038,"endTime":2013.218,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":2013.218,"endTime":2013.219,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":2013.458,"endTime":2016.728,"body":"Who are really good at"},{"startTime":2013.458,"endTime":2016.728,"body":"building communities."},{"startTime":2017.058,"endTime":2019.848,"body":"Reaching out to people and"},{"startTime":2017.058,"endTime":2019.848,"body":"getting people to show up at"},{"startTime":2019.848,"endTime":2022.938,"body":"a certain time, at a certain"},{"startTime":2019.848,"endTime":2022.938,"body":"date and then share their"},{"startTime":2022.938,"endTime":2026.808,"body":"expertise or bring people"},{"startTime":2022.938,"endTime":2026.808,"body":"outta the shell who otherwise"},{"startTime":2026.808,"endTime":2028.608,"body":"would just like, stay in"},{"startTime":2026.808,"endTime":2028.608,"body":"their corner of the business."},{"startTime":2028.998,"endTime":2031.928,"body":"And the company eventually will"},{"startTime":2028.998,"endTime":2031.928,"body":"say well, I don't understand how"},{"startTime":2031.928,"endTime":2033.278,"body":"you connected the bottom line."},{"startTime":2033.578,"endTime":2036.128,"body":"We're gonna get rid of your"},{"startTime":2033.578,"endTime":2036.128,"body":"position, we need to make a"},{"startTime":2036.128,"endTime":2041.508,"body":"number for the last three months"},{"startTime":2036.128,"endTime":2041.508,"body":"and cutting a couple thousand"},{"startTime":2041.508,"endTime":2045.248,"body":"dollars from you here and"},{"startTime":2041.508,"endTime":2045.248,"body":"there lowers that number down."},{"startTime":2045.298,"endTime":2048.798,"body":"Meanwhile, you're super strapped"},{"startTime":2045.298,"endTime":2048.798,"body":"up on debt, maybe if you"},{"startTime":2048.798,"endTime":2052.158,"body":"weren't strapped down on debt,"},{"startTime":2048.798,"endTime":2052.158,"body":"maybe you could afford this."},{"startTime":2052.158,"endTime":2053.028,"body":"You could afford this"},{"startTime":2053.078,"endTime":2057.578,"body":"Again, we're taking individual,"},{"startTime":2053.078,"endTime":2057.578,"body":"people contributing to"},{"startTime":2057.578,"endTime":2059.228,"body":"the bottom line when"},{"startTime":2057.578,"endTime":2059.228,"body":"really you should be"},{"startTime":2059.228,"endTime":2060.368,"body":"doing it at a team level."},{"startTime":2060.418,"endTime":2063.748,"body":"You should have one of these"},{"startTime":2060.418,"endTime":2063.748,"body":"people cut across two teams"},{"startTime":2064.138,"endTime":2065.208,"body":"and spread the overhead."},{"startTime":2065.208,"endTime":2066.798,"body":"The same thing you do"},{"startTime":2065.208,"endTime":2066.798,"body":"with your finance people."},{"startTime":2066.848,"endTime":2067.748,"body":"HR department."},{"startTime":2067.748,"endTime":2069.128,"body":"C levels and stuff like that."},{"startTime":2069.338,"endTime":2071.888,"body":"You spread 'em across and"},{"startTime":2069.338,"endTime":2071.888,"body":"carry 'em as overhead."},{"startTime":2072.128,"endTime":2074.198,"body":"I don't understand why"},{"startTime":2072.128,"endTime":2074.198,"body":"you can't do it here,"},{"startTime":2074.438,"endTime":2075.698,"body":"this is adult stuff."},{"startTime":2075.938,"endTime":2077.558,"body":"They don't contribute"},{"startTime":2075.938,"endTime":2077.558,"body":"to the bottom line."},{"startTime":2077.648,"endTime":2080.378,"body":"I'm trying to save some"},{"startTime":2077.648,"endTime":2080.378,"body":"money you've mentioned"},{"startTime":2080.378,"endTime":2082.988,"body":"gaming companies, but"},{"startTime":2080.378,"endTime":2082.988,"body":"social media platforms."},{"startTime":2083.118,"endTime":2086.718,"body":"They absolutely have to have"},{"startTime":2083.118,"endTime":2086.718,"body":"this liaison role in place,"},{"startTime":2086.723,"endTime":2089.673,"body":"or even healthcare companies,"},{"startTime":2086.723,"endTime":2089.673,"body":"they get their health fairs"},{"startTime":2089.673,"endTime":2092.273,"body":"out there, get the word out"},{"startTime":2089.673,"endTime":2092.273,"body":"with their services that"},{"startTime":2092.273,"endTime":2094.803,"body":"should be part and parcel"},{"startTime":2092.273,"endTime":2094.803,"body":"of the budget you know,"},{"startTime":2094.803,"endTime":2097.593,"body":"typically it is rolled up on"},{"startTime":2094.803,"endTime":2097.593,"body":"the marketing, but it doesn't"},{"startTime":2097.593,"endTime":2098.733,"body":"really matter where you put it."},{"startTime":2098.863,"endTime":2102.793,"body":"that's not directly impacting"},{"startTime":2098.863,"endTime":2102.793,"body":"your bottom line, but it really"},{"startTime":2102.853,"endTime":2105.043,"body":"is impacting your bottom line."},{"startTime":2105.043,"endTime":2105.253,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":2105.553,"endTime":2107.573,"body":"We didn't talk about"},{"startTime":2105.553,"endTime":2107.573,"body":"exit pressure we are"},{"startTime":2107.573,"endTime":2110.383,"body":"just the temporary"},{"startTime":2107.573,"endTime":2110.383,"body":"custodians of this company."},{"startTime":2110.463,"endTime":2112.743,"body":"there's an exit pressure"},{"startTime":2110.463,"endTime":2112.743,"body":"of a final date."},{"startTime":2112.863,"endTime":2114.963,"body":"So just keep pressing,"},{"startTime":2112.863,"endTime":2114.963,"body":"keep pushing."},{"startTime":2115.243,"endTime":2116.383,"body":"Keep burning the midnight oil."},{"startTime":2116.433,"endTime":2118.203,"body":"because eventually."},{"startTime":2118.298,"endTime":2119.138,"body":"there'll be an exit."},{"startTime":2119.448,"endTime":2122.813,"body":"There'll be an IPO, a"},{"startTime":2119.448,"endTime":2122.813,"body":"sale to another PE firm"},{"startTime":2122.863,"endTime":2124.153,"body":"you'll get your big payout"},{"startTime":2124.613,"endTime":2128.813,"body":"And then also, like luckily"},{"startTime":2124.613,"endTime":2128.813,"body":"in this category, survivorship"},{"startTime":2128.813,"endTime":2130.433,"body":"bias is a real thing."},{"startTime":2130.743,"endTime":2133.533,"body":"This category would"},{"startTime":2130.743,"endTime":2133.533,"body":"be much harder to get"},{"startTime":2133.533,"endTime":2136.593,"body":"behind if survivorship"},{"startTime":2133.533,"endTime":2136.593,"body":"bias was not a thing."},{"startTime":2136.593,"endTime":2139.733,"body":"If the data was free"},{"startTime":2136.593,"endTime":2139.733,"body":"flowing every time."},{"startTime":2139.733,"endTime":2144.363,"body":"You heard like, my friend"},{"startTime":2139.733,"endTime":2144.363,"body":"Bob sold his company"},{"startTime":2144.363,"endTime":2145.473,"body":"for whatever, whatever."},{"startTime":2145.473,"endTime":2148.453,"body":"And every time you heard"},{"startTime":2145.473,"endTime":2148.453,"body":"about Bob selling his company,"},{"startTime":2148.753,"endTime":2153.183,"body":"the statistic that 70% of"},{"startTime":2148.753,"endTime":2153.183,"body":"small businesses within their"},{"startTime":2153.183,"endTime":2155.343,"body":"first two to five years fail."},{"startTime":2155.703,"endTime":2159.003,"body":"that fact was included every"},{"startTime":2155.703,"endTime":2159.003,"body":"time as a sub bullet of like,"},{"startTime":2159.033,"endTime":2160.413,"body":"maybe I can not do that."},{"startTime":2160.713,"endTime":2160.893,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":2160.893,"endTime":2163.083,"body":"I went through some of"},{"startTime":2160.893,"endTime":2163.083,"body":"this way back in the"},{"startTime":2163.083,"endTime":2164.763,"body":"heyday of the internet."},{"startTime":2164.813,"endTime":2168.083,"body":"We worked crazy hours"},{"startTime":2164.813,"endTime":2168.083,"body":"because of that situation."},{"startTime":2168.083,"endTime":2171.493,"body":"the carrot that they handled"},{"startTime":2168.083,"endTime":2171.493,"body":"in front of you you would've"},{"startTime":2171.493,"endTime":2173.953,"body":"been a millionaire without"},{"startTime":2171.493,"endTime":2173.953,"body":"a doubt it didn't happen, of"},{"startTime":2173.953,"endTime":2175.453,"body":"course, as the bottom fell out."},{"startTime":2175.853,"endTime":2179.773,"body":"I think now, even today, these"},{"startTime":2175.853,"endTime":2179.773,"body":"companies that have the staff"},{"startTime":2180.073,"endTime":2183.793,"body":"in their corporate rungs, like"},{"startTime":2180.073,"endTime":2183.793,"body":"these PE companies They really"},{"startTime":2184.033,"endTime":2187.843,"body":"don't care what they have to"},{"startTime":2184.033,"endTime":2187.843,"body":"do to make the numbers right."},{"startTime":2188.113,"endTime":2190.303,"body":"So they will exert"},{"startTime":2188.113,"endTime":2190.303,"body":"that pressure."},{"startTime":2190.303,"endTime":2192.343,"body":"Sometimes it's exit"},{"startTime":2190.303,"endTime":2192.343,"body":"pressure, sometimes it's"},{"startTime":2192.343,"endTime":2193.783,"body":"just, we're gonna flip this."},{"startTime":2193.783,"endTime":2194.023,"body":"Right."},{"startTime":2194.023,"endTime":2194.083,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":2194.413,"endTime":2197.053,"body":"Whatever it is, it's not"},{"startTime":2194.413,"endTime":2197.053,"body":"a healthy situation for"},{"startTime":2197.053,"endTime":2198.593,"body":"anybody except themselves."},{"startTime":2199.043,"endTime":2203.713,"body":"Well, can, product led growth,"},{"startTime":2199.043,"endTime":2203.713,"body":"survive in private equity on"},{"startTime":2203.713,"endTime":2205.633,"body":"that debt service balance beam."},{"startTime":2205.933,"endTime":2206.473,"body":"What do we say?"},{"startTime":2206.473,"endTime":2209.233,"body":"Are we giving them a, are we"},{"startTime":2206.473,"endTime":2209.233,"body":"giving them a 8.5 dismount?"},{"startTime":2209.233,"endTime":2212.353,"body":"Are we giving them a, I'm"},{"startTime":2209.233,"endTime":2212.353,"body":"giving them a 0.0 dismount"},{"startTime":2212.353,"endTime":2214.753,"body":"because I don't believe anyone"},{"startTime":2212.353,"endTime":2214.753,"body":"can dismount from that beam."},{"startTime":2214.753,"endTime":2215.383,"body":"I think I agree."},{"startTime":2215.598,"endTime":2217.488,"body":"0.0 dismount, what?"},{"startTime":2217.548,"endTime":2221.358,"body":"Off the mattress, what you're"},{"startTime":2217.548,"endTime":2221.358,"body":"saying is if one person ever"},{"startTime":2221.508,"endTime":2224.418,"body":"in history dismounts from the"},{"startTime":2221.508,"endTime":2224.418,"body":"beam and lands on their feet."},{"startTime":2224.718,"endTime":2225.828,"body":"It must be possible."},{"startTime":2225.828,"endTime":2228.018,"body":"And all the rest of"},{"startTime":2225.828,"endTime":2228.018,"body":"y'all must be be, don't"},{"startTime":2228.018,"endTime":2228.183,"body":"dunno what they're doing."},{"startTime":2228.198,"endTime":2228.348,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":2228.348,"endTime":2229.068,"body":"They, you don't know."},{"startTime":2229.068,"endTime":2229.548,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":2229.548,"endTime":2230.178,"body":"That's what you're saying."},{"startTime":2230.478,"endTime":2230.568,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":2230.628,"endTime":2231.498,"body":"Survivorship bias."},{"startTime":2231.548,"endTime":2234.488,"body":"there's a whole episode"},{"startTime":2231.548,"endTime":2234.488,"body":"coming at you in the future"},{"startTime":2234.488,"endTime":2235.818,"body":"on survivorship bias."},{"startTime":2235.818,"endTime":2236.598,"body":"It's so good."},{"startTime":2236.838,"endTime":2240.238,"body":"I feel like tech is the"},{"startTime":2236.838,"endTime":2240.238,"body":"only place it just like"},{"startTime":2240.298,"endTime":2241.558,"body":"professional gamblers"},{"startTime":2241.558,"endTime":2242.368,"body":"Is that what's happening?"},{"startTime":2242.368,"endTime":2245.218,"body":"Or like, they just believe"},{"startTime":2242.368,"endTime":2245.218,"body":"like, oh, you didn't"},{"startTime":2245.218,"endTime":2246.718,"body":"throw the dice Right."},{"startTime":2246.808,"endTime":2250.138,"body":"Om, that's why you didn't get"},{"startTime":2246.808,"endTime":2250.138,"body":"a seven and win on the first"},{"startTime":2250.138,"endTime":2251.308,"body":"roll What are you talking about?"},{"startTime":2251.338,"endTime":2253.568,"body":"Like, you this is, it's"},{"startTime":2251.338,"endTime":2253.568,"body":"a game of chance's."},{"startTime":2253.598,"endTime":2254.168,"body":"Yeah, exactly."},{"startTime":2254.168,"endTime":2254.288,"body":"You know?"},{"startTime":2254.288,"endTime":2254.378,"body":"Right."},{"startTime":2254.378,"endTime":2254.768,"body":"It's random."},{"startTime":2255.068,"endTime":2257.198,"body":"You're like, it's"},{"startTime":2255.068,"endTime":2257.198,"body":"luck, it's skill."},{"startTime":2257.528,"endTime":2260.218,"body":"So I wanna talk about another"},{"startTime":2257.528,"endTime":2260.218,"body":"category, and this was my"},{"startTime":2260.218,"endTime":2262.768,"body":"original first category to"},{"startTime":2260.218,"endTime":2262.768,"body":"talk about because I think"},{"startTime":2262.768,"endTime":2266.538,"body":"it's very good, which is the"},{"startTime":2262.768,"endTime":2266.538,"body":"pushback that you will get that"},{"startTime":2266.538,"endTime":2269.988,"body":"says, listen, why should the"},{"startTime":2266.538,"endTime":2269.988,"body":"team even care about finances?"},{"startTime":2270.108,"endTime":2271.878,"body":"Why should product even"},{"startTime":2270.108,"endTime":2271.878,"body":"care about finances?"},{"startTime":2272.298,"endTime":2273.558,"body":"We got a whole"},{"startTime":2272.298,"endTime":2273.558,"body":"finance department."},{"startTime":2273.558,"endTime":2277.698,"body":"And if you're saying, yeah, but"},{"startTime":2273.558,"endTime":2277.698,"body":"I could even concede there's"},{"startTime":2277.698,"endTime":2279.498,"body":"some legitimate causes in here."},{"startTime":2279.798,"endTime":2280.668,"body":"Why fight about it?"},{"startTime":2281.088,"endTime":2283.338,"body":"Don't we have better"},{"startTime":2281.088,"endTime":2283.338,"body":"things to fight about?"},{"startTime":2283.638,"endTime":2285.738,"body":"Can we be fighting with"},{"startTime":2283.638,"endTime":2285.738,"body":"people all day long?"},{"startTime":2285.738,"endTime":2287.148,"body":"Is that really how you"},{"startTime":2285.738,"endTime":2287.148,"body":"wanna spend your day?"},{"startTime":2287.518,"endTime":2288.928,"body":"let the finance people"},{"startTime":2287.518,"endTime":2288.928,"body":"deal with finance."},{"startTime":2288.958,"endTime":2290.038,"body":"We'll do with product stuff."},{"startTime":2290.188,"endTime":2290.488,"body":"Okay."},{"startTime":2290.848,"endTime":2292.618,"body":"The, do we have"},{"startTime":2290.848,"endTime":2292.618,"body":"silos for a reason?"},{"startTime":2292.818,"endTime":2296.178,"body":"All the corn grain is over"},{"startTime":2292.818,"endTime":2296.178,"body":"there and all the wheat grain"},{"startTime":2296.178,"endTime":2298.308,"body":"is over here and all the"},{"startTime":2296.178,"endTime":2298.308,"body":"whatever grain is over there."},{"startTime":2298.338,"endTime":2298.428,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":2298.458,"endTime":2300.618,"body":"Well, let's build some"},{"startTime":2298.458,"endTime":2300.618,"body":"silos and stay on our silo."},{"startTime":2300.798,"endTime":2301.518,"body":"That's what I'm saying."},{"startTime":2301.818,"endTime":2305.178,"body":"70% of private, private equity"},{"startTime":2301.818,"endTime":2305.178,"body":"backed companies experienced"},{"startTime":2305.178,"endTime":2307.728,"body":"significant operational"},{"startTime":2305.178,"endTime":2307.728,"body":"changes with 18 months"},{"startTime":2307.728,"endTime":2310.938,"body":"of acquisition, including"},{"startTime":2307.728,"endTime":2310.938,"body":"reduced r and d spending and"},{"startTime":2310.938,"endTime":2314.418,"body":"accelerated product timelines"},{"startTime":2310.938,"endTime":2314.418,"body":"to meet debt obligations."},{"startTime":2314.658,"endTime":2316.968,"body":"That is a completely"},{"startTime":2314.658,"endTime":2316.968,"body":"made up number, but"},{"startTime":2316.968,"endTime":2317.778,"body":"I totally believe it."},{"startTime":2318.248,"endTime":2319.088,"body":"The real numbers."},{"startTime":2319.568,"endTime":2320.738,"body":"Probably aren't too far apart."},{"startTime":2320.918,"endTime":2325.038,"body":"To piggyback off the question,"},{"startTime":2320.918,"endTime":2325.038,"body":"why should we even care finance"},{"startTime":2325.098,"endTime":2327.278,"body":"is the oxygen, for companies."},{"startTime":2327.278,"endTime":2329.678,"body":"Without that you really"},{"startTime":2327.278,"endTime":2329.678,"body":"can't do very much."},{"startTime":2329.678,"endTime":2332.438,"body":"So if you're a product, you need"},{"startTime":2329.678,"endTime":2332.438,"body":"to understand how much money"},{"startTime":2332.438,"endTime":2334.058,"body":"you can invest in a product."},{"startTime":2334.358,"endTime":2337.418,"body":"Finance is so people that"},{"startTime":2334.358,"endTime":2337.418,"body":"are saying, well, you,"},{"startTime":2337.418,"endTime":2339.848,"body":"you just do what you do"},{"startTime":2337.418,"endTime":2339.848,"body":"don't worry about finance."},{"startTime":2339.848,"endTime":2340.118,"body":"Right?"},{"startTime":2340.328,"endTime":2343.298,"body":"Those people will use this"},{"startTime":2340.328,"endTime":2343.298,"body":"against you and say, financial"},{"startTime":2343.298,"endTime":2345.938,"body":"literacy is something"},{"startTime":2343.298,"endTime":2345.938,"body":"that you don't possess."},{"startTime":2346.098,"endTime":2348.518,"body":"Let me dog pile on to"},{"startTime":2346.098,"endTime":2348.518,"body":"what you just said, my"},{"startTime":2348.518,"endTime":2349.628,"body":"job is to write software."},{"startTime":2350.108,"endTime":2353.768,"body":"I can't deal with the cognitive"},{"startTime":2350.108,"endTime":2353.768,"body":"load and distraction of"},{"startTime":2353.768,"endTime":2356.978,"body":"also taking into account"},{"startTime":2353.768,"endTime":2356.978,"body":"all these financial metrics."},{"startTime":2357.278,"endTime":2358.598,"body":"Like that's not my job."},{"startTime":2358.928,"endTime":2361.508,"body":"My job is to write the best"},{"startTime":2358.928,"endTime":2361.508,"body":"software, pay attention to"},{"startTime":2361.508,"endTime":2364.448,"body":"the architecture, do the best"},{"startTime":2361.508,"endTime":2364.448,"body":"job I can, build the best"},{"startTime":2364.448,"endTime":2368.118,"body":"team I can I can't be doing"},{"startTime":2364.448,"endTime":2368.118,"body":"this in addition to all that."},{"startTime":2368.598,"endTime":2372.108,"body":"offload this to the silo that"},{"startTime":2368.598,"endTime":2372.108,"body":"is finance and let them fire off"},{"startTime":2372.108,"endTime":2373.398,"body":"the warning flares or whatever."},{"startTime":2373.608,"endTime":2374.538,"body":"They won't though, right?"},{"startTime":2374.718,"endTime":2377.148,"body":"You won't know until you've"},{"startTime":2374.718,"endTime":2377.148,"body":"been running to the ground."},{"startTime":2377.148,"endTime":2377.923,"body":"They won't, they won't."},{"startTime":2378.258,"endTime":2380.028,"body":"I mean, that, that's an"},{"startTime":2378.258,"endTime":2380.028,"body":"easy one to argue against"},{"startTime":2380.028,"endTime":2382.008,"body":"because you would say,"},{"startTime":2380.028,"endTime":2382.008,"body":"well maybe they're not good"},{"startTime":2382.008,"endTime":2384.708,"body":"finance people if they're not"},{"startTime":2382.008,"endTime":2384.708,"body":"shooting that flare off, the"},{"startTime":2384.708,"endTime":2388.608,"body":"finance structure is largely"},{"startTime":2384.708,"endTime":2388.608,"body":"unchangeable at the team level."},{"startTime":2388.608,"endTime":2390.828,"body":"The private equity"},{"startTime":2388.608,"endTime":2390.828,"body":"owners have decided."},{"startTime":2391.173,"endTime":2394.953,"body":"That your Instant pot"},{"startTime":2391.173,"endTime":2394.953,"body":"company is gonna take on"},{"startTime":2395.373,"endTime":2397.383,"body":"two $200 million in debt."},{"startTime":2397.413,"endTime":2400.863,"body":"We're gonna get a loan from"},{"startTime":2397.413,"endTime":2400.863,"body":"the bank of Brian at 0%"},{"startTime":2400.863,"endTime":2404.193,"body":"interest now, why would we"},{"startTime":2400.863,"endTime":2404.193,"body":"not get $200 million and"},{"startTime":2404.193,"endTime":2405.063,"body":"just put it in the bank?"},{"startTime":2405.163,"endTime":2410.023,"body":"These decisions have been made"},{"startTime":2405.163,"endTime":2410.023,"body":"at the highest levels by adults."},{"startTime":2410.053,"endTime":2410.773,"body":"That's what I'm saying."},{"startTime":2410.853,"endTime":2412.953,"body":"Adults have made"},{"startTime":2410.853,"endTime":2412.953,"body":"adult decisions."},{"startTime":2413.203,"endTime":2415.813,"body":"Why would you spend a modicum"},{"startTime":2413.203,"endTime":2415.813,"body":"effort with your expertise"},{"startTime":2415.813,"endTime":2416.593,"body":"in software development?"},{"startTime":2416.908,"endTime":2417.538,"body":"Why bother?"},{"startTime":2417.538,"endTime":2420.718,"body":"Like the smart people have"},{"startTime":2417.538,"endTime":2420.718,"body":"taken on a loan on your behalf?"},{"startTime":2420.808,"endTime":2422.548,"body":"Yeah, so two things, right?"},{"startTime":2422.548,"endTime":2425.458,"body":"First of all, those people"},{"startTime":2422.548,"endTime":2425.458,"body":"that are making these decisions"},{"startTime":2425.458,"endTime":2428.848,"body":"in their ivory towers aren't"},{"startTime":2425.458,"endTime":2428.848,"body":"necessarily smart people."},{"startTime":2429.058,"endTime":2431.608,"body":"Your destiny is being"},{"startTime":2429.058,"endTime":2431.608,"body":"crafted by these people"},{"startTime":2431.608,"endTime":2434.698,"body":"so if you understand these"},{"startTime":2431.608,"endTime":2434.698,"body":"strategies that they're"},{"startTime":2434.698,"endTime":2438.318,"body":"using for over leveraging and"},{"startTime":2434.698,"endTime":2438.318,"body":"overburdening the company,"},{"startTime":2438.768,"endTime":2442.038,"body":"you might keep that resume"},{"startTime":2438.768,"endTime":2442.038,"body":"updated and get out of there."},{"startTime":2442.108,"endTime":2445.878,"body":"How dare you call into question"},{"startTime":2442.108,"endTime":2445.878,"body":"the sanity of all these finance"},{"startTime":2445.878,"endTime":2447.318,"body":"bros with cocaine habits."},{"startTime":2447.588,"endTime":2448.728,"body":"What are we talking"},{"startTime":2447.588,"endTime":2448.728,"body":"about right here?"},{"startTime":2448.828,"endTime":2451.168,"body":"The people that are choosing"},{"startTime":2448.828,"endTime":2451.168,"body":"to like leverage your company"},{"startTime":2451.168,"endTime":2453.928,"body":"down with $200 million in debt"},{"startTime":2451.168,"endTime":2453.928,"body":"when they see you're on the"},{"startTime":2453.928,"endTime":2456.208,"body":"decline and the whole market."},{"startTime":2456.598,"endTime":2461.188,"body":"Took a 20% dive with Instapot"},{"startTime":2456.598,"endTime":2461.188,"body":"all the markets took a"},{"startTime":2461.188,"endTime":2466.678,"body":"dive when COVID happened"},{"startTime":2461.188,"endTime":2466.678,"body":"however, we decided to also"},{"startTime":2466.948,"endTime":2471.508,"body":"take out a 200 million loan"},{"startTime":2466.948,"endTime":2471.508,"body":"while we saw a 20% dive."},{"startTime":2471.718,"endTime":2474.298,"body":"And then we said, well,"},{"startTime":2471.718,"endTime":2474.298,"body":"well you're, you're,"},{"startTime":2474.388,"endTime":2475.138,"body":"you're in free fall."},{"startTime":2475.348,"endTime":2477.688,"body":"We'll, just like we know your"},{"startTime":2475.348,"endTime":2477.688,"body":"business is dying anyway."},{"startTime":2478.018,"endTime":2480.178,"body":"We're just gonna load a bunch"},{"startTime":2478.018,"endTime":2480.178,"body":"of debt on you and make as"},{"startTime":2480.178,"endTime":2481.558,"body":"much money as we can quickly."},{"startTime":2481.858,"endTime":2485.788,"body":"In the face of increasing"},{"startTime":2481.858,"endTime":2485.788,"body":"competition by new entrants"},{"startTime":2485.788,"endTime":2486.778,"body":"in that market too."},{"startTime":2486.808,"endTime":2487.108,"body":"Right?"},{"startTime":2487.108,"endTime":2488.068,"body":"That also happened."},{"startTime":2488.368,"endTime":2491.818,"body":"If they're doing that, you are"},{"startTime":2488.368,"endTime":2491.818,"body":"really basically driven against"},{"startTime":2491.868,"endTime":2493.308,"body":"a brick wall at high speed."},{"startTime":2493.368,"endTime":2495.378,"body":"Should you not at"},{"startTime":2493.368,"endTime":2495.378,"body":"least open your eyes?"},{"startTime":2495.428,"endTime":2497.498,"body":"You should be aware"},{"startTime":2495.428,"endTime":2497.498,"body":"of what's going on."},{"startTime":2497.528,"endTime":2498.938,"body":"in the finances of your company."},{"startTime":2498.988,"endTime":2504.208,"body":"Great market performance"},{"startTime":2498.988,"endTime":2504.208,"body":"overrides any balance sheet"},{"startTime":2504.208,"endTime":2507.468,"body":"loss if you just came out"},{"startTime":2504.208,"endTime":2507.468,"body":"with Insta pots that are white"},{"startTime":2507.498,"endTime":2511.688,"body":"or gray or sea foam color"},{"startTime":2507.498,"endTime":2511.688,"body":"or whatever you just should"},{"startTime":2511.688,"endTime":2513.218,"body":"have made better products."},{"startTime":2513.338,"endTime":2515.053,"body":"I've heard that one"},{"startTime":2513.338,"endTime":2515.053,"body":"a million times."},{"startTime":2515.053,"endTime":2516.553,"body":"It wasn't a bad"},{"startTime":2515.053,"endTime":2516.553,"body":"idea to start with."},{"startTime":2516.733,"endTime":2518.883,"body":"You just didn't implement"},{"startTime":2516.733,"endTime":2518.883,"body":"it it's always that."},{"startTime":2518.883,"endTime":2519.153,"body":"So good."},{"startTime":2519.153,"endTime":2522.163,"body":"A bunch of finance bros are"},{"startTime":2519.153,"endTime":2522.163,"body":"gonna tell me that I just"},{"startTime":2522.163,"endTime":2524.443,"body":"didn't implement it the"},{"startTime":2522.163,"endTime":2524.443,"body":"market performance matters"},{"startTime":2524.443,"endTime":2525.523,"body":"more than the balance sheet."},{"startTime":2525.523,"endTime":2528.443,"body":"More than the debt we"},{"startTime":2525.523,"endTime":2528.443,"body":"incurred on your behalf"},{"startTime":2528.563,"endTime":2529.763,"body":"without your consent."},{"startTime":2530.138,"endTime":2533.088,"body":"Or like the debt that we took"},{"startTime":2530.138,"endTime":2533.088,"body":"out that we're not helping"},{"startTime":2533.088,"endTime":2535.493,"body":"you it's not, we, it's"},{"startTime":2533.088,"endTime":2535.493,"body":"not like we took out a $2"},{"startTime":2535.493,"endTime":2538.498,"body":"million debt and then we're"},{"startTime":2535.493,"endTime":2538.498,"body":"using it to accelerate your"},{"startTime":2538.588,"endTime":2539.668,"body":"software development work."},{"startTime":2539.888,"endTime":2540.339,"body":"no, no, no."},{"startTime":2540.578,"endTime":2543.398,"body":"We took out $2 million and"},{"startTime":2540.578,"endTime":2543.398,"body":"then bought a yacht, right?"},{"startTime":2543.668,"endTime":2544.568,"body":"200 million."},{"startTime":2545.048,"endTime":2547.628,"body":"I mean, I'm sure just a"},{"startTime":2545.048,"endTime":2547.628,"body":"few zeroes here and there."},{"startTime":2547.628,"endTime":2548.528,"body":"I bought a tiny yacht."},{"startTime":2548.578,"endTime":2550.108,"body":"Mine's in my kitchen sink."},{"startTime":2550.358,"endTime":2553.418,"body":"So when they say, look at"},{"startTime":2550.358,"endTime":2553.418,"body":"all these companies that"},{"startTime":2553.828,"endTime":2557.348,"body":"basically came out of"},{"startTime":2553.828,"endTime":2557.348,"body":"bankruptcy, they will use those"},{"startTime":2557.348,"endTime":2558.728,"body":"examples to their advantage."},{"startTime":2558.728,"endTime":2561.338,"body":"But really, how many"},{"startTime":2558.728,"endTime":2561.338,"body":"of those are there?"},{"startTime":2561.803,"endTime":2564.213,"body":"If you peel back the hood,"},{"startTime":2561.803,"endTime":2564.213,"body":"you'll see there aren't that"},{"startTime":2564.213,"endTime":2567.363,"body":"many companies that actually"},{"startTime":2564.213,"endTime":2567.363,"body":"avoided bankruptcy at the last"},{"startTime":2567.363,"endTime":2570.293,"body":"minute if you look again under"},{"startTime":2567.363,"endTime":2570.293,"body":"the hood, it's not because of"},{"startTime":2570.293,"endTime":2573.653,"body":"any other reason than another"},{"startTime":2570.293,"endTime":2573.653,"body":"financial restructuring."},{"startTime":2574.133,"endTime":2574.493,"body":"Right."},{"startTime":2574.763,"endTime":2576.023,"body":"To come out of bankruptcy."},{"startTime":2576.323,"endTime":2579.113,"body":"So liquidate the"},{"startTime":2576.323,"endTime":2579.113,"body":"assets, for example."},{"startTime":2579.163,"endTime":2581.623,"body":"It's not bankruptcy when"},{"startTime":2579.163,"endTime":2581.623,"body":"you're doing that technically,"},{"startTime":2581.953,"endTime":2584.683,"body":"you're simply breaking"},{"startTime":2581.953,"endTime":2584.683,"body":"the company into pieces."},{"startTime":2584.743,"endTime":2586.783,"body":"And selling every"},{"startTime":2584.743,"endTime":2586.783,"body":"piece separately."},{"startTime":2587.173,"endTime":2589.493,"body":"Well, I feel that's the"},{"startTime":2587.173,"endTime":2589.493,"body":"worst case scenario."},{"startTime":2589.683,"endTime":2590.883,"body":"That's a strategy though."},{"startTime":2591.183,"endTime":2592.083,"body":"Oh, in some cases, right."},{"startTime":2592.123,"endTime":2594.363,"body":"I'm not unconvinced that,"},{"startTime":2592.123,"endTime":2594.363,"body":"that was not the Instapot"},{"startTime":2594.363,"endTime":2597.533,"body":"scenario, leverage it down"},{"startTime":2594.363,"endTime":2597.533,"body":"with as much debt as possible"},{"startTime":2597.863,"endTime":2600.593,"body":"so we can recoup some money"},{"startTime":2597.863,"endTime":2600.593,"body":"out of it before we complete,"},{"startTime":2600.593,"endTime":2603.563,"body":"it seemed like the intention"},{"startTime":2600.593,"endTime":2603.563,"body":"was to destroy the company."},{"startTime":2603.663,"endTime":2606.543,"body":"While extracting"},{"startTime":2603.663,"endTime":2606.543,"body":"maximum debt out of it."},{"startTime":2606.933,"endTime":2610.323,"body":"If the situation weren't,"},{"startTime":2606.933,"endTime":2610.323,"body":"were not so hostile, I would"},{"startTime":2610.323,"endTime":2613.353,"body":"say that there's a positive"},{"startTime":2610.323,"endTime":2613.353,"body":"side of this and that is,"},{"startTime":2613.353,"endTime":2616.533,"body":"it's a reminder to us all that"},{"startTime":2613.353,"endTime":2616.533,"body":"we need to be understanding"},{"startTime":2616.533,"endTime":2618.603,"body":"how they're leveraging debt."},{"startTime":2618.903,"endTime":2621.183,"body":"Our company and what they're"},{"startTime":2618.903,"endTime":2621.183,"body":"doing with the finances of"},{"startTime":2621.183,"endTime":2624.273,"body":"our company, and that includes"},{"startTime":2621.183,"endTime":2624.273,"body":"development teams and product."},{"startTime":2624.573,"endTime":2626.883,"body":"Understanding the financial"},{"startTime":2624.573,"endTime":2626.883,"body":"ecosystem of the business"},{"startTime":2626.883,"endTime":2630.663,"body":"lets you spot early warning"},{"startTime":2626.883,"endTime":2630.663,"body":"signs and maybe see some"},{"startTime":2630.663,"endTime":2633.003,"body":"things that you should be"},{"startTime":2630.663,"endTime":2633.003,"body":"aware of before they happen."},{"startTime":2633.393,"endTime":2636.573,"body":"Now, the one big tool that gets"},{"startTime":2633.393,"endTime":2636.573,"body":"deployed to nefarious means"},{"startTime":2636.573,"endTime":2640.398,"body":"when it comes to this is lack"},{"startTime":2636.573,"endTime":2640.398,"body":"of transparency, the adults"},{"startTime":2640.398,"endTime":2643.368,"body":"not being transparent with you"},{"startTime":2640.398,"endTime":2643.368,"body":"while the business takes on"},{"startTime":2643.368,"endTime":2647.138,"body":"debt and they don't tell you,"},{"startTime":2643.368,"endTime":2647.138,"body":"or taking out loans, moving debt"},{"startTime":2647.138,"endTime":2651.248,"body":"around, or I. Moving customers"},{"startTime":2647.138,"endTime":2651.248,"body":"from business to business."},{"startTime":2651.258,"endTime":2654.408,"body":"There's like an intentional"},{"startTime":2651.258,"endTime":2654.408,"body":"financial engineering happening"},{"startTime":2654.708,"endTime":2658.938,"body":"and I, and it's hard to think,"},{"startTime":2654.708,"endTime":2658.938,"body":"that is not intentionally"},{"startTime":2658.938,"endTime":2660.378,"body":"leading towards bankruptcy."},{"startTime":2660.528,"endTime":2662.388,"body":"these are games it"},{"startTime":2660.528,"endTime":2662.388,"body":"is, hoodwinking."},{"startTime":2662.498,"endTime":2663.548,"body":"Lack of transparency."},{"startTime":2663.698,"endTime":2667.088,"body":"For me as a product manager,"},{"startTime":2663.698,"endTime":2667.088,"body":"without an idea of the debt"},{"startTime":2667.088,"endTime":2670.178,"body":"strategy, we're gonna buy"},{"startTime":2667.088,"endTime":2670.178,"body":"this company and then we'll"},{"startTime":2670.178,"endTime":2673.418,"body":"take that debt and it will"},{"startTime":2670.178,"endTime":2673.418,"body":"be a certain overhead that"},{"startTime":2673.428,"endTime":2677.058,"body":"I'm willing and expected to"},{"startTime":2673.428,"endTime":2677.058,"body":"absorb on the margins and pay"},{"startTime":2677.358,"endTime":2678.468,"body":"and pay it back over time."},{"startTime":2678.858,"endTime":2680.838,"body":"Like what do we, I I"},{"startTime":2678.858,"endTime":2680.838,"body":"just need to know what"},{"startTime":2680.838,"endTime":2681.738,"body":"do we get from that?"},{"startTime":2682.288,"endTime":2684.098,"body":"Because I might have an"},{"startTime":2682.288,"endTime":2684.098,"body":"interest in when is the"},{"startTime":2684.098,"endTime":2685.148,"body":"right time to add it?"},{"startTime":2685.423,"endTime":2687.883,"body":"You know, what, what things"},{"startTime":2685.423,"endTime":2687.883,"body":"might we be able to try?"},{"startTime":2688.223,"endTime":2690.413,"body":"That needs to factor into"},{"startTime":2688.223,"endTime":2690.413,"body":"my roadmap, and if I'm not"},{"startTime":2690.413,"endTime":2692.993,"body":"invited to the table where"},{"startTime":2690.413,"endTime":2692.993,"body":"that conversation happens,"},{"startTime":2693.193,"endTime":2697.093,"body":"You blindsided, basically, look,"},{"startTime":2693.193,"endTime":2697.093,"body":"you make portfolio decisions."},{"startTime":2697.133,"endTime":2698.603,"body":"Yeah, right, exactly."},{"startTime":2698.663,"endTime":2700.553,"body":"If I'm not invited to"},{"startTime":2698.663,"endTime":2700.553,"body":"that conversation, there's"},{"startTime":2700.553,"endTime":2701.483,"body":"a lack of awareness."},{"startTime":2701.573,"endTime":2703.913,"body":"There's a lack of strategic"},{"startTime":2701.573,"endTime":2703.913,"body":"direction, and there's many,"},{"startTime":2703.913,"endTime":2705.923,"body":"many more problems that"},{"startTime":2703.913,"endTime":2705.923,"body":"can come up at, you know, I"},{"startTime":2705.923,"endTime":2709.043,"body":"just don't know how you stay"},{"startTime":2705.923,"endTime":2709.043,"body":"successful if that is the"},{"startTime":2709.043,"endTime":2709.973,"body":"environment that you work in."},{"startTime":2710.273,"endTime":2710.993,"body":"Yeah, I agree."},{"startTime":2710.993,"endTime":2712.823,"body":"I mean, look, that that's"},{"startTime":2710.993,"endTime":2712.823,"body":"the kind of environment,"},{"startTime":2712.853,"endTime":2715.403,"body":"people in product or even"},{"startTime":2712.853,"endTime":2715.403,"body":"other domains will say,"},{"startTime":2715.703,"endTime":2717.013,"body":"finance, that's not my job."},{"startTime":2717.018,"endTime":2717.178,"body":"Right?"},{"startTime":2717.283,"endTime":2717.613,"body":"Right."},{"startTime":2717.883,"endTime":2721.573,"body":"And to those people that say"},{"startTime":2717.883,"endTime":2721.573,"body":"it absolutely is your job,"},{"startTime":2721.873,"endTime":2723.343,"body":"become financially literate."},{"startTime":2723.343,"endTime":2727.003,"body":"Understand your company's"},{"startTime":2723.343,"endTime":2727.003,"body":"structuring and how they're"},{"startTime":2727.003,"endTime":2728.953,"body":"maneuvering, try to get ahead."},{"startTime":2728.983,"endTime":2731.863,"body":"It's a little bit easier"},{"startTime":2728.983,"endTime":2731.863,"body":"with a public company 'cause"},{"startTime":2731.973,"endTime":2734.073,"body":"the finances are disclosed."},{"startTime":2734.403,"endTime":2738.243,"body":"But be wary of things like"},{"startTime":2734.403,"endTime":2738.243,"body":"forward looking statements"},{"startTime":2738.273,"endTime":2740.253,"body":"because they're nothing"},{"startTime":2738.273,"endTime":2740.253,"body":"more than spinning yarn."},{"startTime":2740.653,"endTime":2743.173,"body":"The next category is the"},{"startTime":2740.653,"endTime":2743.173,"body":"mentality of growth at all"},{"startTime":2743.173,"endTime":2746.053,"body":"costs versus building a"},{"startTime":2743.173,"endTime":2746.053,"body":"sustainable growth model."},{"startTime":2746.113,"endTime":2748.588,"body":"And I will tell you , I'm not"},{"startTime":2746.113,"endTime":2748.588,"body":"sure if PE has an advantage"},{"startTime":2748.588,"endTime":2752.278,"body":"here because the VC folks in the"},{"startTime":2748.588,"endTime":2752.278,"body":"last decade or so have really"},{"startTime":2752.278,"endTime":2754.558,"body":"started eschewing, Ooh, that,"},{"startTime":2752.278,"endTime":2754.558,"body":"that's a good word: eschewing."},{"startTime":2754.888,"endTime":2757.468,"body":"The idea that we are"},{"startTime":2754.888,"endTime":2757.468,"body":"gonna build a repeatable,"},{"startTime":2757.468,"endTime":2760.198,"body":"sustainable company with"},{"startTime":2757.468,"endTime":2760.198,"body":"strong revenue stream."},{"startTime":2760.198,"endTime":2763.108,"body":"And I'm gonna start growing"},{"startTime":2760.198,"endTime":2763.108,"body":"at three to 5% year over year."},{"startTime":2763.108,"endTime":2765.088,"body":"And we're just gonna keep"},{"startTime":2763.108,"endTime":2765.088,"body":"doing that for 20 years."},{"startTime":2765.088,"endTime":2767.188,"body":"Well, we build a flywheel and"},{"startTime":2765.088,"endTime":2767.188,"body":"push it faster and faster."},{"startTime":2767.248,"endTime":2770.848,"body":"And the VC people hear that"},{"startTime":2767.248,"endTime":2770.848,"body":"and they yawn and they talk"},{"startTime":2770.848,"endTime":2773.428,"body":"about that it's boring and they"},{"startTime":2770.848,"endTime":2773.428,"body":"don't even wanna look at it."},{"startTime":2773.728,"endTime":2776.668,"body":"That's a real Silicon Valley"},{"startTime":2773.728,"endTime":2776.668,"body":"thing that I've heard about and"},{"startTime":2776.668,"endTime":2778.318,"body":"I've watched podcasts about."},{"startTime":2778.618,"endTime":2780.868,"body":"They're just not interested"},{"startTime":2778.618,"endTime":2780.868,"body":"in operating in that model."},{"startTime":2780.898,"endTime":2781.648,"body":"It's not."},{"startTime":2781.848,"endTime":2782.598,"body":"not in vogue."},{"startTime":2782.723,"endTime":2784.013,"body":"I forgot what we"},{"startTime":2782.723,"endTime":2784.013,"body":"were talking about."},{"startTime":2784.013,"endTime":2784.823,"body":"Growth at all costs."},{"startTime":2784.853,"endTime":2786.443,"body":"Uh, VCs don't like that."},{"startTime":2786.443,"endTime":2787.493,"body":"Sustainable growth."},{"startTime":2787.493,"endTime":2787.613,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":2787.613,"endTime":2790.613,"body":"The VCs don't like sustainable"},{"startTime":2787.613,"endTime":2790.613,"body":"growth year over year."},{"startTime":2790.613,"endTime":2793.043,"body":"Early in my career I joined"},{"startTime":2790.613,"endTime":2793.043,"body":"the company and the CEO is"},{"startTime":2793.043,"endTime":2796.693,"body":"like three to 5% year over"},{"startTime":2793.043,"endTime":2796.693,"body":"year sustainable growth."},{"startTime":2797.023,"endTime":2799.753,"body":"We're gonna get that flywheel"},{"startTime":2797.023,"endTime":2799.753,"body":"and start pushing that flywheel."},{"startTime":2799.753,"endTime":2802.963,"body":"Slowly and over time, the"},{"startTime":2799.753,"endTime":2802.963,"body":"flywheel keeps moving and"},{"startTime":2802.963,"endTime":2804.223,"body":"we get more and more growth."},{"startTime":2804.223,"endTime":2807.433,"body":"we three, 5% every year"},{"startTime":2804.223,"endTime":2807.433,"body":"and eventually we go from"},{"startTime":2807.433,"endTime":2811.033,"body":"having 30 employees to 300"},{"startTime":2807.433,"endTime":2811.033,"body":"employees to 3000 employees,"},{"startTime":2811.333,"endTime":2812.683,"body":"which worked like that."},{"startTime":2812.683,"endTime":2816.853,"body":"That slow sustainable"},{"startTime":2812.683,"endTime":2816.853,"body":"At one point, that was"},{"startTime":2816.883,"endTime":2818.593,"body":"the mainstream strategy."},{"startTime":2818.598,"endTime":2818.918,"body":"Right?"},{"startTime":2818.923,"endTime":2819.073,"body":"Right."},{"startTime":2819.073,"endTime":2819.343,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":2819.343,"endTime":2819.823,"body":"No more."},{"startTime":2820.153,"endTime":2823.263,"body":"Right now people want"},{"startTime":2820.153,"endTime":2823.263,"body":"explosive growth hockey stick."},{"startTime":2823.263,"endTime":2823.773,"body":"That's right."},{"startTime":2823.773,"endTime":2824.463,"body":"Hockey stick."},{"startTime":2824.463,"endTime":2825.093,"body":"Exactly."},{"startTime":2825.343,"endTime":2828.573,"body":"Tech companies like IBM are"},{"startTime":2825.343,"endTime":2828.573,"body":"in that sustainable growth."},{"startTime":2829.008,"endTime":2830.748,"body":"Sadly, what's that led to?"},{"startTime":2830.838,"endTime":2833.928,"body":"They're not really a"},{"startTime":2830.838,"endTime":2833.928,"body":"leading force in things"},{"startTime":2833.928,"endTime":2835.128,"body":"like ai, for example."},{"startTime":2835.158,"endTime":2837.168,"body":"Not saying they're"},{"startTime":2835.158,"endTime":2837.168,"body":"lagging too far behind,"},{"startTime":2837.168,"endTime":2838.098,"body":"but they're not leading."},{"startTime":2838.188,"endTime":2838.578,"body":"Oh boy."},{"startTime":2838.578,"endTime":2841.148,"body":"This is not the podcast to"},{"startTime":2838.578,"endTime":2841.148,"body":"talk about Microsoft, but"},{"startTime":2841.148,"endTime":2843.758,"body":"if you want to talk about"},{"startTime":2841.148,"endTime":2843.758,"body":"a company that really has,"},{"startTime":2844.058,"endTime":2846.458,"body":"has this problem they see"},{"startTime":2844.058,"endTime":2846.458,"body":"other companies, Silicon"},{"startTime":2846.458,"endTime":2849.848,"body":"Valley companies, and they're"},{"startTime":2846.458,"endTime":2849.848,"body":"like, we want some of that."},{"startTime":2849.958,"endTime":2852.028,"body":"another category that I"},{"startTime":2849.958,"endTime":2852.028,"body":"don't think we're gonna get"},{"startTime":2852.028,"endTime":2857.008,"body":"around is technical debt"},{"startTime":2852.028,"endTime":2857.008,"body":"compounds exponentially"},{"startTime":2857.098,"endTime":2858.178,"body":"when you get rushed."},{"startTime":2858.608,"endTime":2862.078,"body":"If we're talking about"},{"startTime":2858.608,"endTime":2862.078,"body":"growth at all costs, I really"},{"startTime":2862.078,"endTime":2864.598,"body":"consider that like all costs."},{"startTime":2864.678,"endTime":2865.608,"body":"Cutting corners."},{"startTime":2865.608,"endTime":2866.748,"body":"Yeah, absolutely."},{"startTime":2866.808,"endTime":2869.493,"body":"When you're cutting costs"},{"startTime":2866.808,"endTime":2869.493,"body":"or rushing, you're gonna"},{"startTime":2869.493,"endTime":2870.903,"body":"accumulate technical debt."},{"startTime":2871.203,"endTime":2873.393,"body":"And a lot of times I hear"},{"startTime":2871.203,"endTime":2873.393,"body":"people say, we'll come"},{"startTime":2873.393,"endTime":2874.443,"body":"back and fix it later."},{"startTime":2874.663,"endTime":2876.733,"body":"Imagine having that"},{"startTime":2874.663,"endTime":2876.733,"body":"discussion with your."},{"startTime":2877.138,"endTime":2881.018,"body":"PE owners that we're gonna"},{"startTime":2877.138,"endTime":2881.018,"body":"spend some time and effort and"},{"startTime":2881.018,"endTime":2882.798,"body":"money, on fixing things up."},{"startTime":2882.798,"endTime":2885.288,"body":"Let's have that conversation"},{"startTime":2882.798,"endTime":2885.288,"body":"because I'll be the pe"},{"startTime":2885.288,"endTime":2888.148,"body":"owner in this conversation,"},{"startTime":2885.288,"endTime":2888.148,"body":"I'll say, listen, ohm,"},{"startTime":2888.518,"endTime":2889.658,"body":"you have a bad attitude."},{"startTime":2889.848,"endTime":2893.628,"body":"The attitude you need to"},{"startTime":2889.848,"endTime":2893.628,"body":"understand is the winner"},{"startTime":2893.628,"endTime":2898.138,"body":"takes all in these markets,"},{"startTime":2893.628,"endTime":2898.138,"body":"these competitive demand"},{"startTime":2898.138,"endTime":2902.158,"body":"fed markets like, like the"},{"startTime":2898.138,"endTime":2902.158,"body":"race to a GI, for example."},{"startTime":2902.218,"endTime":2902.458,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":2902.578,"endTime":2905.038,"body":"The winner takes all"},{"startTime":2902.578,"endTime":2905.038,"body":"in these markets."},{"startTime":2905.043,"endTime":2907.833,"body":"I'm saying this not based"},{"startTime":2905.043,"endTime":2907.833,"body":"on literally any evidence"},{"startTime":2907.833,"endTime":2910.763,"body":"at all but I'm trying to"},{"startTime":2907.833,"endTime":2910.763,"body":"create an artificial sense"},{"startTime":2910.763,"endTime":2912.683,"body":"of urgency under you."},{"startTime":2912.983,"endTime":2917.063,"body":"Under all of us to say, oh,"},{"startTime":2912.983,"endTime":2917.063,"body":"but you're making me go so fast"},{"startTime":2917.123,"endTime":2921.203,"body":"that we're either delivering"},{"startTime":2917.123,"endTime":2921.203,"body":"bad quality or we're building"},{"startTime":2921.233,"endTime":2924.113,"body":"all this technical debt into"},{"startTime":2921.233,"endTime":2924.113,"body":"our product that's gonna come"},{"startTime":2924.113,"endTime":2925.373,"body":"back and buy us eventually."},{"startTime":2925.433,"endTime":2928.703,"body":"Well, customers are okay"},{"startTime":2925.433,"endTime":2928.703,"body":"with that because they"},{"startTime":2928.703,"endTime":2933.603,"body":"know that we're growing in"},{"startTime":2928.703,"endTime":2933.603,"body":"significant ways and we're"},{"startTime":2933.603,"endTime":2937.353,"body":"offering them significant"},{"startTime":2933.603,"endTime":2937.353,"body":"features and products that"},{"startTime":2937.353,"endTime":2939.153,"body":"allow 'em to do things they"},{"startTime":2937.353,"endTime":2939.153,"body":"can't do anywhere else."},{"startTime":2939.213,"endTime":2941.553,"body":"We're hurting them though,"},{"startTime":2939.213,"endTime":2941.553,"body":"because what's gonna happen is"},{"startTime":2941.733,"endTime":2945.123,"body":"they'll call and complain and"},{"startTime":2941.733,"endTime":2945.123,"body":"we cannot fix things because"},{"startTime":2945.243,"endTime":2949.233,"body":"we cannot sustain what we"},{"startTime":2945.243,"endTime":2949.233,"body":"have without fixing the core"},{"startTime":2949.233,"endTime":2950.673,"body":"systems that we have, right?"},{"startTime":2950.733,"endTime":2952.563,"body":"We can't just maintain that."},{"startTime":2952.783,"endTime":2955.813,"body":"it's just longer and longer"},{"startTime":2952.783,"endTime":2955.813,"body":"to maintain simple things."},{"startTime":2955.813,"endTime":2957.553,"body":"Now because you've"},{"startTime":2955.813,"endTime":2957.553,"body":"built up all this debt,"},{"startTime":2957.823,"endTime":2960.853,"body":"what would you say if I"},{"startTime":2957.823,"endTime":2960.853,"body":"said We can fix all these"},{"startTime":2960.853,"endTime":2964.303,"body":"problems, we can leverage"},{"startTime":2960.853,"endTime":2964.303,"body":"quality in our products,"},{"startTime":2964.603,"endTime":2965.953,"body":"but we have to scale first."},{"startTime":2966.283,"endTime":2970.363,"body":"You have to get, we have to grow"},{"startTime":2966.283,"endTime":2970.363,"body":"to a certain amount of a RR and"},{"startTime":2970.363,"endTime":2974.263,"body":"then we stabilize, and then we"},{"startTime":2970.363,"endTime":2974.263,"body":"can reach this quality level."},{"startTime":2974.413,"endTime":2976.363,"body":"That's an interesting"},{"startTime":2974.413,"endTime":2976.363,"body":"discussion because you're"},{"startTime":2976.393,"endTime":2981.073,"body":"saying grow to a certain a RR"},{"startTime":2976.393,"endTime":2981.073,"body":"with subpar quality, right?"},{"startTime":2981.073,"endTime":2984.243,"body":"First it's gonna take you"},{"startTime":2981.073,"endTime":2984.243,"body":"longer to get there that way."},{"startTime":2984.483,"endTime":2987.153,"body":"'cause the early impressions"},{"startTime":2984.483,"endTime":2987.153,"body":"on bad quality will"},{"startTime":2987.153,"endTime":2988.263,"body":"hurt your reputation."},{"startTime":2988.623,"endTime":2991.533,"body":"So that's a risk, it's a"},{"startTime":2988.623,"endTime":2991.533,"body":"risky strategy to take."},{"startTime":2991.923,"endTime":2994.373,"body":"Now, if you're the market"},{"startTime":2991.923,"endTime":2994.373,"body":"leader the innovator."},{"startTime":2994.578,"endTime":2996.548,"body":"The first entrant, Maybe"},{"startTime":2994.578,"endTime":2996.548,"body":"you can get away with it"},{"startTime":2996.548,"endTime":2999.658,"body":"for a bit, but competitors"},{"startTime":2996.548,"endTime":2999.658,"body":"will catch up quickly."},{"startTime":3000.048,"endTime":3003.528,"body":"And if they're going at a slower"},{"startTime":3000.048,"endTime":3003.528,"body":"pace, building more quality"},{"startTime":3003.528,"endTime":3006.248,"body":"into their products, and at"},{"startTime":3003.528,"endTime":3006.248,"body":"the same time your customers"},{"startTime":3006.248,"endTime":3010.508,"body":"are getting antsy because your"},{"startTime":3006.248,"endTime":3010.508,"body":"quality is not that great,"},{"startTime":3010.718,"endTime":3011.978,"body":"you're gonna lose customers."},{"startTime":3012.198,"endTime":3015.828,"body":"You wanna hear my experience"},{"startTime":3012.198,"endTime":3015.828,"body":"which is the customer"},{"startTime":3015.828,"endTime":3020.148,"body":"experience suffers from"},{"startTime":3015.828,"endTime":3020.148,"body":"scale before quality."},{"startTime":3020.638,"endTime":3023.413,"body":"it doesn't suffer because of"},{"startTime":3020.638,"endTime":3023.413,"body":"like things that you might"},{"startTime":3023.663,"endTime":3024.623,"body":"think off the top of your head."},{"startTime":3024.893,"endTime":3027.863,"body":"It's usually the company"},{"startTime":3024.893,"endTime":3027.863,"body":"producing the software,"},{"startTime":3028.313,"endTime":3031.703,"body":"they start confusing"},{"startTime":3028.313,"endTime":3031.703,"body":"their market position."},{"startTime":3032.003,"endTime":3034.853,"body":"They think oh, we're successful"},{"startTime":3032.003,"endTime":3034.853,"body":"because of feature X or"},{"startTime":3034.853,"endTime":3038.993,"body":"because of the ability of the"},{"startTime":3034.853,"endTime":3038.993,"body":"software to solve x pain point"},{"startTime":3039.293,"endTime":3042.713,"body":"when in actuality, most of"},{"startTime":3039.293,"endTime":3042.713,"body":"your users have y pain point."},{"startTime":3042.713,"endTime":3042.923,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":3043.223,"endTime":3044.873,"body":"So you double down on"},{"startTime":3043.223,"endTime":3044.873,"body":"the wrong pain point."},{"startTime":3044.903,"endTime":3048.803,"body":"I feel the more you press your"},{"startTime":3044.903,"endTime":3048.803,"body":"product teams, the more they're"},{"startTime":3048.803,"endTime":3052.293,"body":"under pressure to give you"},{"startTime":3048.803,"endTime":3052.293,"body":"what you want from how you're"},{"startTime":3052.293,"endTime":3055.393,"body":"pressuring them rather than"},{"startTime":3052.293,"endTime":3055.393,"body":"to find these user insights."},{"startTime":3055.493,"endTime":3057.434,"body":"This might be a squishy"},{"startTime":3055.493,"endTime":3057.434,"body":"topic for people to I don't"},{"startTime":3057.439,"endTime":3058.423,"body":"think it's squishy at all."},{"startTime":3058.483,"endTime":3060.733,"body":"I mean, look, your"},{"startTime":3058.483,"endTime":3060.733,"body":"product either has a good"},{"startTime":3060.733,"endTime":3062.413,"body":"product fit or not, right?"},{"startTime":3062.413,"endTime":3065.603,"body":"It might be understanding why"},{"startTime":3062.413,"endTime":3065.603,"body":"your product fits might be"},{"startTime":3065.603,"endTime":3066.773,"body":"squishy to a lot of people."},{"startTime":3066.773,"endTime":3067.373,"body":"that's what I'm saying."},{"startTime":3067.373,"endTime":3070.753,"body":"The point of this subject in"},{"startTime":3067.373,"endTime":3070.753,"body":"this podcast is, if you're"},{"startTime":3070.753,"endTime":3074.083,"body":"confused about why your"},{"startTime":3070.753,"endTime":3074.083,"body":"product is successful, it's"},{"startTime":3074.083,"endTime":3075.613,"body":"gonna make all this way worse."},{"startTime":3075.913,"endTime":3076.453,"body":"At scale."},{"startTime":3076.503,"endTime":3076.953,"body":"Agreed."},{"startTime":3077.043,"endTime":3077.793,"body":"Absolutely."},{"startTime":3078.093,"endTime":3081.363,"body":"Well, this velocity versus"},{"startTime":3078.093,"endTime":3081.363,"body":"stability speedometer,"},{"startTime":3081.413,"endTime":3084.473,"body":"measuring the velocity versus"},{"startTime":3081.413,"endTime":3084.473,"body":"stability speedometer where"},{"startTime":3084.473,"endTime":3088.643,"body":"zero is moving so slow ing"},{"startTime":3084.473,"endTime":3088.643,"body":"backwards and 10 is going so"},{"startTime":3088.643,"endTime":3089.963,"body":"fast, the wheels fall off."},{"startTime":3090.263,"endTime":3091.733,"body":"What would you"},{"startTime":3090.263,"endTime":3091.733,"body":"give this category?"},{"startTime":3091.893,"endTime":3095.323,"body":"I'd say this is probably an 11"},{"startTime":3091.893,"endTime":3095.323,"body":"from a PE perspective anyway."},{"startTime":3095.683,"endTime":3096.073,"body":"Oh, okay."},{"startTime":3096.073,"endTime":3097.213,"body":"You're not going fast enough."},{"startTime":3097.243,"endTime":3097.663,"body":"Faster."},{"startTime":3097.713,"endTime":3098.223,"body":"Faster."},{"startTime":3098.333,"endTime":3100.413,"body":"Regardless if you're going"},{"startTime":3098.333,"endTime":3100.413,"body":"towards a brick wall, the"},{"startTime":3100.413,"endTime":3105.748,"body":"concept that technical debt"},{"startTime":3100.413,"endTime":3105.748,"body":"is manageable, if you properly"},{"startTime":3105.748,"endTime":3108.968,"body":"manage it the pushback here"},{"startTime":3105.748,"endTime":3108.968,"body":"is like, oh, Brian, you told"},{"startTime":3108.968,"endTime":3111.748,"body":"me a lot about technical"},{"startTime":3108.968,"endTime":3111.748,"body":"debt becoming unmanageable."},{"startTime":3112.048,"endTime":3114.028,"body":"Maybe you are just not"},{"startTime":3112.048,"endTime":3114.028,"body":"good at managing it."},{"startTime":3114.238,"endTime":3116.008,"body":"pinning blame on an individual."},{"startTime":3116.038,"endTime":3116.428,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":3116.608,"endTime":3118.438,"body":"When the system really is fault."},{"startTime":3118.438,"endTime":3120.238,"body":"Like I could see that"},{"startTime":3118.438,"endTime":3120.238,"body":"coming out of this."},{"startTime":3120.298,"endTime":3121.408,"body":"People do this all the time."},{"startTime":3121.408,"endTime":3123.208,"body":"They tackle the person"},{"startTime":3121.408,"endTime":3123.208,"body":"not the problem."},{"startTime":3123.358,"endTime":3128.788,"body":"So should product leaders"},{"startTime":3123.358,"endTime":3128.788,"body":"build bankruptcy resistant"},{"startTime":3129.148,"endTime":3131.818,"body":"products as a top priority?"},{"startTime":3132.118,"endTime":3135.358,"body":"That's the next category,"},{"startTime":3132.118,"endTime":3135.358,"body":"an analysis of 500."},{"startTime":3135.598,"endTime":3138.778,"body":"the Arguing Agile podcast"},{"startTime":3135.598,"endTime":3138.778,"body":"did an analysis of 500"},{"startTime":3138.988,"endTime":3142.408,"body":"tech bankruptcies showing"},{"startTime":3138.988,"endTime":3142.408,"body":"that companies with strong"},{"startTime":3142.408,"endTime":3145.798,"body":"user communities and low"},{"startTime":3142.408,"endTime":3145.798,"body":"maintenance products are 60%"},{"startTime":3146.038,"endTime":3148.588,"body":"more likely to be acquired"},{"startTime":3146.038,"endTime":3148.588,"body":"as going concerns rather"},{"startTime":3148.588,"endTime":3149.728,"body":"than liquidated for parts."},{"startTime":3149.978,"endTime":3151.958,"body":"Remember all the numbers"},{"startTime":3149.978,"endTime":3151.958,"body":"are made up on the old"},{"startTime":3152.168,"endTime":3153.338,"body":"arguing Agile podcast."},{"startTime":3153.458,"endTime":3153.698,"body":"Yep."},{"startTime":3153.818,"endTime":3155.858,"body":"We did this research"},{"startTime":3153.818,"endTime":3155.858,"body":"on a Sunday afternoon."},{"startTime":3156.078,"endTime":3158.448,"body":"I think what they're saying"},{"startTime":3156.078,"endTime":3158.448,"body":"is if you have low technical"},{"startTime":3158.448,"endTime":3161.088,"body":"debt and high quality,"},{"startTime":3158.448,"endTime":3161.088,"body":"you are more likely to be"},{"startTime":3161.088,"endTime":3165.428,"body":"preserved as a viable entity"},{"startTime":3161.088,"endTime":3165.428,"body":"and be purchased as opposed"},{"startTime":3165.428,"endTime":3166.718,"body":"to broken up into pieces."},{"startTime":3166.838,"endTime":3166.928,"body":"Right?"},{"startTime":3167.018,"endTime":3167.063,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":3167.063,"endTime":3168.818,"body":"I mean, look, there's"},{"startTime":3167.063,"endTime":3168.818,"body":"some logic to that, right?"},{"startTime":3168.818,"endTime":3171.848,"body":"If your company, if your"},{"startTime":3168.818,"endTime":3171.848,"body":"products are terrible, no one's"},{"startTime":3171.848,"endTime":3175.098,"body":"gonna buy 'em, no one will buy"},{"startTime":3171.848,"endTime":3175.098,"body":"a company that produces terrible"},{"startTime":3175.098,"endTime":3178.308,"body":"products, they may find some"},{"startTime":3175.098,"endTime":3178.308,"body":"products that are salvageable."},{"startTime":3178.368,"endTime":3181.098,"body":"Or may augment their products,"},{"startTime":3178.368,"endTime":3181.098,"body":"so they're gonna buy pieces"},{"startTime":3181.098,"endTime":3184.238,"body":"of it, I keep going back to"},{"startTime":3181.098,"endTime":3184.238,"body":"the same example as before."},{"startTime":3184.238,"endTime":3187.248,"body":"Sunbeam was an example with"},{"startTime":3184.238,"endTime":3187.248,"body":"this, and perhaps Philip,"},{"startTime":3187.518,"endTime":3189.348,"body":"but I think with Philips"},{"startTime":3187.518,"endTime":3189.348,"body":"it's a little bit different."},{"startTime":3189.348,"endTime":3192.258,"body":"But yeah, Sunbeam was"},{"startTime":3189.348,"endTime":3192.258,"body":"definitely this example."},{"startTime":3192.348,"endTime":3195.598,"body":"So let's start with a"},{"startTime":3192.348,"endTime":3195.598,"body":"four in this category."},{"startTime":3195.628,"endTime":3199.678,"body":"Product leaders should build"},{"startTime":3195.628,"endTime":3199.678,"body":"bankruptcy resilient products."},{"startTime":3199.718,"endTime":3203.178,"body":"Even in the Marty Cagan"},{"startTime":3199.718,"endTime":3203.178,"body":"books, user loyalty creates"},{"startTime":3203.238,"endTime":3206.478,"body":"acquisition value, meaning"},{"startTime":3203.238,"endTime":3206.478,"body":"products with passionate user"},{"startTime":3206.478,"endTime":3208.788,"body":"bases always attract buyers."},{"startTime":3208.938,"endTime":3211.338,"body":"Even if a company is"},{"startTime":3208.938,"endTime":3211.338,"body":"failing you, you will"},{"startTime":3211.338,"endTime":3212.598,"body":"always have buyers."},{"startTime":3212.698,"endTime":3218.468,"body":"So it craft those missionaries,"},{"startTime":3212.698,"endTime":3218.468,"body":"not mercenaries, and you"},{"startTime":3218.468,"endTime":3222.188,"body":"need people to help you"},{"startTime":3218.468,"endTime":3222.188,"body":"develop that group, right."},{"startTime":3222.488,"endTime":3224.648,"body":"People who can build"},{"startTime":3222.488,"endTime":3224.648,"body":"lovable products."},{"startTime":3224.648,"endTime":3226.508,"body":"They don't have to"},{"startTime":3224.648,"endTime":3226.508,"body":"be perfect products."},{"startTime":3226.558,"endTime":3228.838,"body":"On both sides, you need people"},{"startTime":3226.558,"endTime":3228.838,"body":"building the products to really"},{"startTime":3228.838,"endTime":3231.268,"body":"believe in them, but then you"},{"startTime":3228.838,"endTime":3231.268,"body":"also need people using the"},{"startTime":3231.268,"endTime":3232.108,"body":"products to really believe."},{"startTime":3232.108,"endTime":3235.588,"body":"And what's best is to bring"},{"startTime":3232.108,"endTime":3235.588,"body":"those two groups together."},{"startTime":3235.888,"endTime":3238.078,"body":"the real synergy is when you"},{"startTime":3235.888,"endTime":3238.078,"body":"bring those two groups together"},{"startTime":3238.078,"endTime":3240.798,"body":"and say these people really"},{"startTime":3238.078,"endTime":3240.798,"body":"understand each other and"},{"startTime":3240.798,"endTime":3244.218,"body":"now we're gonna sit back and"},{"startTime":3240.798,"endTime":3244.218,"body":"rake in all the cash because"},{"startTime":3244.458,"endTime":3247.398,"body":"we got people who understand"},{"startTime":3244.458,"endTime":3247.398,"body":"and love the product building"},{"startTime":3247.398,"endTime":3250.368,"body":"four people who understand"},{"startTime":3247.398,"endTime":3250.368,"body":"and love the product."},{"startTime":3250.668,"endTime":3252.803,"body":"If you get to that"},{"startTime":3250.668,"endTime":3252.803,"body":"nirvana state, that's"},{"startTime":3252.803,"endTime":3253.763,"body":"a force multiplier."},{"startTime":3253.843,"endTime":3256.033,"body":"It'll lead to other products"},{"startTime":3253.843,"endTime":3256.033,"body":"in the future, right?"},{"startTime":3256.063,"endTime":3256.153,"body":"Mm-hmm."},{"startTime":3256.453,"endTime":3258.013,"body":"Through this alliance"},{"startTime":3256.453,"endTime":3258.013,"body":"that you mentioned."},{"startTime":3258.213,"endTime":3260.043,"body":"How many products are like that?"},{"startTime":3260.043,"endTime":3262.593,"body":"I can think about maybe"},{"startTime":3260.043,"endTime":3262.593,"body":"just like Apple hardware,"},{"startTime":3262.623,"endTime":3266.103,"body":"people that are diehard"},{"startTime":3262.623,"endTime":3266.103,"body":"aficionados of Apple, myself"},{"startTime":3266.103,"endTime":3268.803,"body":"included, but not necessarily"},{"startTime":3266.103,"endTime":3268.803,"body":"for anything but a phone."},{"startTime":3268.983,"endTime":3271.293,"body":"They will typically"},{"startTime":3268.983,"endTime":3271.293,"body":"stay with Apple."},{"startTime":3271.293,"endTime":3274.443,"body":"they'll complain you took away"},{"startTime":3271.293,"endTime":3274.443,"body":"my headphone port, et cetera."},{"startTime":3274.683,"endTime":3276.543,"body":"They'll complain, but"},{"startTime":3274.683,"endTime":3276.543,"body":"they will stay with you."},{"startTime":3276.543,"endTime":3278.683,"body":"I'll die on the hill"},{"startTime":3276.543,"endTime":3278.683,"body":"of the headphone port."},{"startTime":3278.733,"endTime":3279.573,"body":"switching costs."},{"startTime":3279.838,"endTime":3280.798,"body":"that's what you're"},{"startTime":3279.838,"endTime":3280.798,"body":"talking about."},{"startTime":3280.798,"endTime":3282.223,"body":"Switching costs, we minimized."},{"startTime":3282.223,"endTime":3284.698,"body":"So the switching costs,"},{"startTime":3282.223,"endTime":3284.698,"body":"like the switching costs for"},{"startTime":3284.698,"endTime":3286.078,"body":"Apple users goes super deep."},{"startTime":3286.078,"endTime":3289.288,"body":"'cause it's like, it's not"},{"startTime":3286.078,"endTime":3289.288,"body":"just, it's not just switching"},{"startTime":3289.588,"endTime":3290.518,"body":"to a different phone."},{"startTime":3290.518,"endTime":3293.998,"body":"It's abandoning all of your"},{"startTime":3290.518,"endTime":3293.998,"body":"apps that work with Apple."},{"startTime":3294.053,"endTime":3297.023,"body":"If you use a Mac as well."},{"startTime":3297.023,"endTime":3299.483,"body":"now you double, triple,"},{"startTime":3297.023,"endTime":3299.483,"body":"quadruple down if you bought"},{"startTime":3299.483,"endTime":3300.773,"body":"stuff that stays with Apple."},{"startTime":3300.853,"endTime":3302.353,"body":"Apple's probably"},{"startTime":3300.853,"endTime":3302.353,"body":"an easy example."},{"startTime":3302.353,"endTime":3305.338,"body":"But, I would also argue you"},{"startTime":3302.353,"endTime":3305.338,"body":"could build a product where"},{"startTime":3305.338,"endTime":3309.448,"body":"your amount of support and"},{"startTime":3305.338,"endTime":3309.448,"body":"touch points with the users"},{"startTime":3309.748,"endTime":3312.988,"body":"is so intense that it's hard"},{"startTime":3309.748,"endTime":3312.988,"body":"for them to go to any other"},{"startTime":3312.988,"endTime":3314.508,"body":"brand when they speak up."},{"startTime":3314.808,"endTime":3316.808,"body":"They have the development"},{"startTime":3314.808,"endTime":3316.808,"body":"team jumping all over"},{"startTime":3316.808,"endTime":3319.248,"body":"themselves to be like, oh,"},{"startTime":3316.808,"endTime":3319.248,"body":"let me check into that."},{"startTime":3319.298,"endTime":3320.198,"body":"I had the same problem."},{"startTime":3320.198,"endTime":3323.398,"body":"or other users jump in"},{"startTime":3320.198,"endTime":3323.398,"body":"and say, oh, I had the"},{"startTime":3323.398,"endTime":3324.328,"body":"same problem you had."},{"startTime":3324.378,"endTime":3326.808,"body":"How do you build that"},{"startTime":3324.378,"endTime":3326.808,"body":"tight-knit community that"},{"startTime":3326.808,"endTime":3328.388,"body":"helps other members like that?"},{"startTime":3328.418,"endTime":3330.788,"body":"That in and of itself"},{"startTime":3328.418,"endTime":3330.788,"body":"requires effort."},{"startTime":3330.788,"endTime":3334.558,"body":"And again, if you're in this"},{"startTime":3330.788,"endTime":3334.558,"body":"PE ecosystem, it's tough"},{"startTime":3334.558,"endTime":3337.798,"body":"to even like those people"},{"startTime":3334.558,"endTime":3337.798,"body":"that do that kind of work to"},{"startTime":3337.798,"endTime":3339.328,"body":"help manage your community."},{"startTime":3339.818,"endTime":3342.728,"body":"They don't really make money"},{"startTime":3339.818,"endTime":3342.728,"body":"and they're not, I, they're"},{"startTime":3342.728,"endTime":3347.228,"body":"not direct revenue focus and"},{"startTime":3342.728,"endTime":3347.228,"body":"I just can't like the, the"},{"startTime":3347.498,"endTime":3349.058,"body":"so many shortsighted things."},{"startTime":3349.328,"endTime":3351.248,"body":"I, I would also say on the"},{"startTime":3349.328,"endTime":3351.248,"body":"development side of this,"},{"startTime":3351.548,"endTime":3353.978,"body":"continuing to invest in a low."},{"startTime":3354.278,"endTime":3357.038,"body":"Maintenance"},{"startTime":3354.278,"endTime":3357.038,"body":"architectural runway."},{"startTime":3357.288,"endTime":3359.388,"body":"Purely on the development"},{"startTime":3357.288,"endTime":3359.388,"body":"side of the house, which"},{"startTime":3359.388,"endTime":3362.768,"body":"means all of the third party"},{"startTime":3359.388,"endTime":3362.768,"body":"libraries we integrate with"},{"startTime":3362.768,"endTime":3365.548,"body":"and all the dependencies that"},{"startTime":3362.768,"endTime":3365.548,"body":"our software is dependent on."},{"startTime":3365.798,"endTime":3369.248,"body":"we're never more than"},{"startTime":3365.798,"endTime":3369.248,"body":"n minus one behind with"},{"startTime":3369.248,"endTime":3370.508,"body":"all of our vendors."},{"startTime":3370.558,"endTime":3374.038,"body":"There's a dedication involved"},{"startTime":3370.558,"endTime":3374.038,"body":"on the product development side"},{"startTime":3374.038,"endTime":3377.028,"body":"of the house to be ooh, vendor"},{"startTime":3374.038,"endTime":3377.028,"body":"put an update to this library."},{"startTime":3377.238,"endTime":3379.278,"body":"We gotta test to this"},{"startTime":3377.238,"endTime":3379.278,"body":"library right away."},{"startTime":3379.578,"endTime":3381.848,"body":"And, and like, that's"},{"startTime":3379.578,"endTime":3381.848,"body":"what the world of testing"},{"startTime":3381.848,"endTime":3383.798,"body":"and automation steps in."},{"startTime":3384.098,"endTime":3385.208,"body":"For companies like"},{"startTime":3384.098,"endTime":3385.208,"body":"this, it's like."},{"startTime":3385.508,"endTime":3386.858,"body":"Software testing."},{"startTime":3386.858,"endTime":3387.578,"body":"Oh man."},{"startTime":3387.578,"endTime":3389.558,"body":"That's like, that's"},{"startTime":3387.578,"endTime":3389.558,"body":"something that people outta"},{"startTime":3389.558,"endTime":3392.138,"body":"India or you know, Belarus"},{"startTime":3392.138,"endTime":3395.648,"body":"ukraine, let them do that"},{"startTime":3392.138,"endTime":3395.648,"body":"on free time or whatever."},{"startTime":3395.648,"endTime":3397.898,"body":"Like I, we get Yeah, we can"},{"startTime":3395.648,"endTime":3397.898,"body":"get the low cost providers"},{"startTime":3397.898,"endTime":3398.558,"body":"to that Absolutely."},{"startTime":3398.563,"endTime":3401.928,"body":"For us so it is unfortunate"},{"startTime":3398.563,"endTime":3401.928,"body":"because paying attention"},{"startTime":3401.928,"endTime":3405.348,"body":"to these things that you"},{"startTime":3401.928,"endTime":3405.348,"body":"mentioned, it's not even that"},{"startTime":3405.348,"endTime":3406.488,"body":"much further in the future."},{"startTime":3406.488,"endTime":3407.988,"body":"It can pay off pretty quickly."},{"startTime":3408.198,"endTime":3410.718,"body":"The example of n minus one,"},{"startTime":3408.198,"endTime":3410.718,"body":"you're not at n minus one,"},{"startTime":3410.718,"endTime":3412.488,"body":"let's say, what are you"},{"startTime":3410.718,"endTime":3412.488,"body":"gonna tell your customers"},{"startTime":3412.488,"endTime":3415.678,"body":"that they now have to stay"},{"startTime":3412.488,"endTime":3415.678,"body":"on old libraries or old"},{"startTime":3415.738,"endTime":3417.238,"body":"dependent products and stuff?"},{"startTime":3417.298,"endTime":3418.258,"body":"I've seen that."},{"startTime":3418.288,"endTime":3420.013,"body":"And it's not a"},{"startTime":3418.288,"endTime":3420.013,"body":"pleasant experience."},{"startTime":3420.283,"endTime":3423.163,"body":"I've also seen companies that"},{"startTime":3420.283,"endTime":3423.163,"body":"are at N minus one and they"},{"startTime":3423.163,"endTime":3426.153,"body":"say, as soon as something's"},{"startTime":3423.163,"endTime":3426.153,"body":"coming out get ready, we're"},{"startTime":3426.153,"endTime":3427.293,"body":"gonna come out with a release."},{"startTime":3427.323,"endTime":3429.953,"body":"'cause we're already testing it"},{"startTime":3427.323,"endTime":3429.953,"body":"in the lab completely different."},{"startTime":3430.343,"endTime":3431.993,"body":"Experience between those two."},{"startTime":3432.243,"endTime":3432.423,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":3432.423,"endTime":3435.073,"body":"But again, PEs if you're"},{"startTime":3432.423,"endTime":3435.073,"body":"not making money or saving"},{"startTime":3435.073,"endTime":3436.183,"body":"money, don't do that."},{"startTime":3436.643,"endTime":3439.073,"body":"I'm glad you went there because"},{"startTime":3436.643,"endTime":3439.073,"body":"I have some points that will be"},{"startTime":3439.073,"endTime":3441.473,"body":"used against in this category."},{"startTime":3441.593,"endTime":3441.683,"body":"Mm-hmm."},{"startTime":3441.923,"endTime":3443.513,"body":"Which is that market"},{"startTime":3441.923,"endTime":3443.513,"body":"opportunities are"},{"startTime":3443.513,"endTime":3444.323,"body":"time sensitive."},{"startTime":3444.383,"endTime":3447.413,"body":"So while your team is spending"},{"startTime":3444.383,"endTime":3447.413,"body":"time retrofitting for the"},{"startTime":3447.413,"endTime":3450.173,"body":"latest version, version of"},{"startTime":3447.413,"endTime":3450.173,"body":"Python or whatever oh, Python"},{"startTime":3450.443,"endTime":3452.183,"body":"three 13 is out or whatever."},{"startTime":3452.183,"endTime":3455.993,"body":"So what I'm saying is we're"},{"startTime":3452.183,"endTime":3455.993,"body":"just going to put a milestone"},{"startTime":3455.993,"endTime":3459.538,"body":"marker on our development"},{"startTime":3455.993,"endTime":3459.538,"body":"team's roadmap 'cause right?"},{"startTime":3459.643,"endTime":3461.893,"body":"'cause we use Gantt charts"},{"startTime":3459.643,"endTime":3461.893,"body":"because we're pe right?"},{"startTime":3461.893,"endTime":3462.253,"body":"Sure."},{"startTime":3462.303,"endTime":3465.563,"body":"We're just gonna put an October"},{"startTime":3462.303,"endTime":3465.563,"body":"milestone marker to test our"},{"startTime":3465.563,"endTime":3466.823,"body":"software with the latest Python."},{"startTime":3467.123,"endTime":3469.433,"body":"That's no different than what"},{"startTime":3467.123,"endTime":3469.433,"body":"Apple does, you think about"},{"startTime":3469.433,"endTime":3471.803,"body":"the cadence of Apple hardware"},{"startTime":3469.433,"endTime":3471.803,"body":"when they come out with new"},{"startTime":3471.803,"endTime":3475.038,"body":"phones, it's typically every"},{"startTime":3471.803,"endTime":3475.038,"body":"year or something like that."},{"startTime":3475.038,"endTime":3477.773,"body":"Well, the argument point here"},{"startTime":3475.038,"endTime":3477.773,"body":"is like, marketing opportunities"},{"startTime":3477.773,"endTime":3478.643,"body":"are time sensitive."},{"startTime":3478.823,"endTime":3481.283,"body":"So you're saying what you"},{"startTime":3478.823,"endTime":3481.283,"body":"could be doing is that"},{"startTime":3481.283,"endTime":3482.873,"body":"opportunity cost argument."},{"startTime":3482.873,"endTime":3484.873,"body":"Leading up to October, what"},{"startTime":3482.873,"endTime":3484.873,"body":"could we be doing in the"},{"startTime":3484.873,"endTime":3489.223,"body":"market to gain share other"},{"startTime":3484.873,"endTime":3489.223,"body":"than like starting to prep"},{"startTime":3489.223,"endTime":3490.933,"body":"for whatever's in three 14."},{"startTime":3491.263,"endTime":3493.033,"body":"Like who cares"},{"startTime":3491.263,"endTime":3493.033,"body":"what's in three 14?"},{"startTime":3493.333,"endTime":3494.803,"body":"There's other market"},{"startTime":3493.333,"endTime":3494.803,"body":"opportunities."},{"startTime":3494.803,"endTime":3496.693,"body":"We could be adding features"},{"startTime":3494.803,"endTime":3496.693,"body":"to break into this other"},{"startTime":3496.693,"endTime":3499.543,"body":"market, or we could be"},{"startTime":3496.693,"endTime":3499.543,"body":"adding AI features to catch"},{"startTime":3499.543,"endTime":3500.893,"body":"up with our AI competitors."},{"startTime":3501.103,"endTime":3505.333,"body":"In the category of should"},{"startTime":3501.103,"endTime":3505.333,"body":"product leaders build bankruptcy"},{"startTime":3505.363,"endTime":3510.613,"body":"resistant products is you should"},{"startTime":3505.363,"endTime":3510.613,"body":"be chasing the market regardless"},{"startTime":3510.613,"endTime":3513.623,"body":"of whatever other things you got"},{"startTime":3510.613,"endTime":3513.623,"body":"going on whatever's happening"},{"startTime":3513.623,"endTime":3516.803,"body":"in the market, whatever latest"},{"startTime":3513.623,"endTime":3516.803,"body":"trends you should be considering"},{"startTime":3516.803,"endTime":3520.053,"body":"those top priority we need"},{"startTime":3516.803,"endTime":3520.053,"body":"to stay ahead so we don't get"},{"startTime":3520.053,"endTime":3523.593,"body":"behind in the architecture, but"},{"startTime":3520.053,"endTime":3523.593,"body":"also we gotta stay competitive."},{"startTime":3523.833,"endTime":3526.143,"body":"That would be honestly out of"},{"startTime":3523.833,"endTime":3526.143,"body":"all of the things we talked"},{"startTime":3526.143,"endTime":3529.263,"body":"about probably in this whole"},{"startTime":3526.143,"endTime":3529.263,"body":"podcast, this one hits me"},{"startTime":3529.263,"endTime":3531.173,"body":"the hardest we gotta react."},{"startTime":3531.573,"endTime":3533.043,"body":"There's no argument"},{"startTime":3531.573,"endTime":3533.043,"body":"for me on that."},{"startTime":3533.043,"endTime":3535.083,"body":"You have to, otherwise"},{"startTime":3533.043,"endTime":3535.083,"body":"you're falling behind."},{"startTime":3535.083,"endTime":3537.153,"body":"if you're standing still,"},{"startTime":3535.083,"endTime":3537.153,"body":"you're actually falling behind."},{"startTime":3537.153,"endTime":3540.383,"body":"And that is true, but in the"},{"startTime":3537.153,"endTime":3540.383,"body":"scenario we were discussing"},{"startTime":3540.383,"endTime":3542.693,"body":"earlier about the Python"},{"startTime":3540.383,"endTime":3542.693,"body":"versions, for example."},{"startTime":3542.693,"endTime":3545.093,"body":"There's no reason why you"},{"startTime":3542.693,"endTime":3545.093,"body":"cannot say just like Apple"},{"startTime":3545.093,"endTime":3548.373,"body":"does here's our planned"},{"startTime":3545.093,"endTime":3548.373,"body":"release but thereafter, here"},{"startTime":3548.373,"endTime":3551.703,"body":"are all the capabilities we're"},{"startTime":3548.373,"endTime":3551.703,"body":"releasing in the DOT releases."},{"startTime":3551.758,"endTime":3554.158,"body":"What it's doing is you may"},{"startTime":3551.758,"endTime":3554.158,"body":"not even make those dot"},{"startTime":3554.158,"endTime":3557.128,"body":"releases or you may change"},{"startTime":3554.158,"endTime":3557.128,"body":"the capability mix, just like"},{"startTime":3557.128,"endTime":3560.328,"body":"what happens in a piece of"},{"startTime":3557.128,"endTime":3560.328,"body":"hardware that's been decreed"},{"startTime":3560.328,"endTime":3561.948,"body":"to be released a year from now."},{"startTime":3561.998,"endTime":3564.033,"body":"Potentially if they just"},{"startTime":3561.998,"endTime":3564.033,"body":"released it, it's a year from"},{"startTime":3564.033,"endTime":3567.123,"body":"now they will say it'll have"},{"startTime":3564.033,"endTime":3567.123,"body":"this, this, and this, but"},{"startTime":3567.123,"endTime":3569.673,"body":"when it actually comes out,"},{"startTime":3567.123,"endTime":3569.673,"body":"some of those features will"},{"startTime":3569.673,"endTime":3572.103,"body":"be swapped out for others or"},{"startTime":3569.673,"endTime":3572.103,"body":"just omitted all together."},{"startTime":3572.403,"endTime":3575.423,"body":"So I remember, mac rumors"},{"startTime":3572.403,"endTime":3575.423,"body":"or whatever it is, they say"},{"startTime":3575.693,"endTime":3579.443,"body":"the next iPhone will be much"},{"startTime":3575.693,"endTime":3579.443,"body":"thinner, foldable, et cetera."},{"startTime":3579.443,"endTime":3581.003,"body":"When it comes out, it's"},{"startTime":3579.443,"endTime":3581.003,"body":"none of those things."},{"startTime":3581.003,"endTime":3583.943,"body":"And that's fine because"},{"startTime":3581.003,"endTime":3583.943,"body":"it keeps people guessing."},{"startTime":3584.123,"endTime":3587.193,"body":"And so what I'm trying to say"},{"startTime":3584.123,"endTime":3587.193,"body":"in a long, kind of roundabout"},{"startTime":3587.193,"endTime":3589.173,"body":"ways, it's not one or the other."},{"startTime":3589.203,"endTime":3590.133,"body":"You have to do both."},{"startTime":3590.193,"endTime":3594.063,"body":"you have to stay competitive,"},{"startTime":3590.193,"endTime":3594.063,"body":"but you can also ensure"},{"startTime":3594.063,"endTime":3597.363,"body":"there's a decent roadmap"},{"startTime":3594.063,"endTime":3597.363,"body":"with features that you are"},{"startTime":3597.473,"endTime":3599.023,"body":"luring the customer base with"},{"startTime":3599.053,"endTime":3600.843,"body":"what about customer loyalty?"},{"startTime":3601.143,"endTime":3602.378,"body":"Let me ask you your"},{"startTime":3601.143,"endTime":3602.378,"body":"opinion on that one."},{"startTime":3602.378,"endTime":3604.563,"body":"I would say customer"},{"startTime":3602.378,"endTime":3604.563,"body":"loyalty, you might be the"},{"startTime":3604.563,"endTime":3608.553,"body":"most loyal customer of your"},{"startTime":3604.563,"endTime":3608.553,"body":"black cab service in London."},{"startTime":3609.033,"endTime":3612.483,"body":"But as soon as you can pull"},{"startTime":3609.033,"endTime":3612.483,"body":"up an app on your phone and"},{"startTime":3612.483,"endTime":3615.423,"body":"be like, Hey, I can have a"},{"startTime":3612.483,"endTime":3615.423,"body":"car to you in two and a half"},{"startTime":3615.423,"endTime":3619.173,"body":"minutes and it's gonna cost"},{"startTime":3615.423,"endTime":3619.173,"body":"you one third of the cost"},{"startTime":3619.173,"endTime":3620.613,"body":"of your Black Cab service."},{"startTime":3620.613,"endTime":3625.243,"body":"Wouldn't you abandon that old"},{"startTime":3620.613,"endTime":3625.243,"body":"black Cab service immediately?"},{"startTime":3625.293,"endTime":3628.173,"body":"I bring that up to say the"},{"startTime":3625.293,"endTime":3628.173,"body":"idea of customer loyalty"},{"startTime":3628.623,"endTime":3633.723,"body":"isn't that like non-defense"},{"startTime":3628.623,"endTime":3633.723,"body":"customer loyalty is fickle."},{"startTime":3634.068,"endTime":3634.698,"body":"At best."},{"startTime":3634.748,"endTime":3637.268,"body":"in that example, absolutely"},{"startTime":3634.748,"endTime":3637.268,"body":"I'll take a ride share"},{"startTime":3637.268,"endTime":3638.318,"body":"service or whatever."},{"startTime":3638.318,"endTime":3638.648,"body":"Right."},{"startTime":3638.978,"endTime":3641.408,"body":"From the convenience"},{"startTime":3638.978,"endTime":3641.408,"body":"standpoint, if nothing else."},{"startTime":3641.488,"endTime":3644.788,"body":"So the key thing here is figure"},{"startTime":3641.488,"endTime":3644.788,"body":"out what it, what the customer"},{"startTime":3644.788,"endTime":3646.978,"body":"price is and cater to that."},{"startTime":3647.008,"endTime":3649.228,"body":"As a traditionalist, it"},{"startTime":3647.008,"endTime":3649.228,"body":"almost pains me to say that,"},{"startTime":3649.258,"endTime":3650.788,"body":"'cause I liked the black cabs."},{"startTime":3650.828,"endTime":3654.338,"body":"I liked having the conversations"},{"startTime":3650.828,"endTime":3654.338,"body":"with these people but today the"},{"startTime":3654.338,"endTime":3657.398,"body":"market is all about convenience"},{"startTime":3654.338,"endTime":3657.398,"body":"and it's moving quickly."},{"startTime":3657.448,"endTime":3659.908,"body":"Fast forward a little bit and"},{"startTime":3657.448,"endTime":3659.908,"body":"maybe you won't have anybody"},{"startTime":3659.908,"endTime":3661.048,"body":"to have a conversation with."},{"startTime":3661.078,"endTime":3663.208,"body":"'cause you'll be in a"},{"startTime":3661.078,"endTime":3663.208,"body":"Waymo that has no driver."},{"startTime":3663.268,"endTime":3664.978,"body":"I, I love the, oh, sorry."},{"startTime":3664.978,"endTime":3666.803,"body":"I played cyberpunk, so I"},{"startTime":3664.978,"endTime":3666.803,"body":"don't want to be in a Waymo"},{"startTime":3666.968,"endTime":3669.368,"body":"I remember the cyberpunk"},{"startTime":3666.968,"endTime":3669.368,"body":"mission where the Waymo with"},{"startTime":3669.368,"endTime":3672.218,"body":"no driver brought you to the"},{"startTime":3669.368,"endTime":3672.218,"body":"combat zone with all the rest"},{"startTime":3672.218,"endTime":3673.598,"body":"of the Waymo is with no guy."},{"startTime":3673.898,"endTime":3674.648,"body":"I don't wanna deal with it."},{"startTime":3674.858,"endTime":3676.208,"body":"That's Rage Against the Machine."},{"startTime":3676.208,"endTime":3678.998,"body":"The free market version of what"},{"startTime":3676.208,"endTime":3678.998,"body":"we're talking about would say"},{"startTime":3679.048,"endTime":3682.058,"body":"well, the Black Cab services"},{"startTime":3679.048,"endTime":3682.058,"body":"could have built their own app"},{"startTime":3682.148,"endTime":3685.478,"body":"to compete if they had been"},{"startTime":3682.148,"endTime":3685.478,"body":"flexible enough on the market."},{"startTime":3685.538,"endTime":3685.988,"body":"That's right."},{"startTime":3685.988,"endTime":3689.018,"body":"To understand where the market"},{"startTime":3685.988,"endTime":3689.018,"body":"was going and just undercut."},{"startTime":3689.318,"endTime":3690.338,"body":"Uber or whatever."},{"startTime":3690.368,"endTime":3692.618,"body":"This arguing point kind"},{"startTime":3690.368,"endTime":3692.618,"body":"of undercuts itself."},{"startTime":3692.868,"endTime":3695.778,"body":"But it's super interesting"},{"startTime":3692.868,"endTime":3695.778,"body":"to talk about why they"},{"startTime":3695.778,"endTime":3697.638,"body":"didn't react fast enough."},{"startTime":3698.088,"endTime":3700.288,"body":"Well, there's"},{"startTime":3698.088,"endTime":3700.288,"body":"several layers there."},{"startTime":3700.448,"endTime":3701.933,"body":"A whole podcast you"},{"startTime":3700.448,"endTime":3701.933,"body":"probably could do."},{"startTime":3701.933,"endTime":3702.413,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":3702.413,"endTime":3703.133,"body":"Just on that."},{"startTime":3703.183,"endTime":3706.593,"body":"Not least is the issue of"},{"startTime":3703.183,"endTime":3706.593,"body":"being a unionized entity and"},{"startTime":3706.593,"endTime":3709.963,"body":"just being a laggard when it"},{"startTime":3706.593,"endTime":3709.963,"body":"comes to innovation, because"},{"startTime":3710.083,"endTime":3712.873,"body":"they've always been there,"},{"startTime":3710.083,"endTime":3712.873,"body":"Black cabs have been around"},{"startTime":3712.873,"endTime":3716.033,"body":"for decades, and suddenly this"},{"startTime":3712.873,"endTime":3716.033,"body":"new fangled thing comes along."},{"startTime":3716.303,"endTime":3717.713,"body":"They don't believe"},{"startTime":3716.303,"endTime":3717.713,"body":"it's gonna impact them."},{"startTime":3717.763,"endTime":3719.203,"body":"Until it does."},{"startTime":3719.253,"endTime":3721.983,"body":"What do you think about the"},{"startTime":3719.253,"endTime":3721.983,"body":"statement that financial"},{"startTime":3721.983,"endTime":3725.733,"body":"structure problems require"},{"startTime":3721.983,"endTime":3725.733,"body":"financial solutions?"},{"startTime":3725.733,"endTime":3728.403,"body":"So no amount of product"},{"startTime":3725.733,"endTime":3728.403,"body":"engineering can overcome"},{"startTime":3728.613,"endTime":3731.253,"body":"fundamental capital"},{"startTime":3728.613,"endTime":3731.253,"body":"structure problems."},{"startTime":3731.433,"endTime":3733.338,"body":"And I'm assuming we're"},{"startTime":3731.433,"endTime":3733.338,"body":"talking about debt here."},{"startTime":3733.638,"endTime":3736.378,"body":"Debt and leveraging"},{"startTime":3733.638,"endTime":3736.378,"body":"Look, I agree with this."},{"startTime":3736.383,"endTime":3738.478,"body":"Financial or financial"},{"startTime":3736.383,"endTime":3738.478,"body":"engineering is what"},{"startTime":3738.478,"endTime":3738.838,"body":"I'm talking about."},{"startTime":3738.838,"endTime":3742.518,"body":"I think financial problems"},{"startTime":3738.838,"endTime":3742.518,"body":"do require solutions through"},{"startTime":3742.518,"endTime":3743.598,"body":"financial engineering."},{"startTime":3743.598,"endTime":3745.128,"body":"You could have the best product."},{"startTime":3745.428,"endTime":3748.448,"body":"How many companies do we know"},{"startTime":3745.428,"endTime":3748.448,"body":"of that had the best products,"},{"startTime":3748.548,"endTime":3751.308,"body":"because of the financial"},{"startTime":3748.548,"endTime":3751.308,"body":"decisions that were made."},{"startTime":3751.608,"endTime":3753.978,"body":"These companies are now gone,"},{"startTime":3751.608,"endTime":3753.978,"body":"or at least the product lines"},{"startTime":3753.978,"endTime":3755.178,"body":"are gone, Probably a lot."},{"startTime":3755.228,"endTime":3757.928,"body":"I'll give you an example that"},{"startTime":3755.228,"endTime":3757.928,"body":"I just recently learned about."},{"startTime":3757.958,"endTime":3762.198,"body":"John Deere acquired a small"},{"startTime":3757.958,"endTime":3762.198,"body":"company for $300 million."},{"startTime":3762.198,"endTime":3764.868,"body":"So it wasn't that small, but"},{"startTime":3762.198,"endTime":3764.868,"body":"it was in a niche market."},{"startTime":3764.988,"endTime":3765.078,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":3765.128,"endTime":3767.658,"body":"this company was AI"},{"startTime":3765.128,"endTime":3767.658,"body":"first they came up with,"},{"startTime":3767.988,"endTime":3769.998,"body":"recognition of weeds."},{"startTime":3770.028,"endTime":3773.578,"body":"They had a trailer towed behind"},{"startTime":3770.028,"endTime":3773.578,"body":"a tractor in the fields, and"},{"startTime":3773.638,"endTime":3777.378,"body":"it would recognize heads of"},{"startTime":3773.638,"endTime":3777.378,"body":"lettuce, anything else that"},{"startTime":3777.378,"endTime":3780.348,"body":"wasn't a head of lettuce, it"},{"startTime":3777.378,"endTime":3780.348,"body":"would say, that's a weed, using"},{"startTime":3780.733,"endTime":3784.168,"body":"this company's product, john"},{"startTime":3780.733,"endTime":3784.168,"body":"Deere marketed that together."},{"startTime":3784.468,"endTime":3789.268,"body":"Farmers can now target"},{"startTime":3784.468,"endTime":3789.268,"body":"and pinpoint weeds as"},{"startTime":3789.268,"endTime":3791.698,"body":"opposed to indiscriminately"},{"startTime":3789.268,"endTime":3791.698,"body":"killing heads of lettuce"},{"startTime":3791.698,"endTime":3792.808,"body":"as well as weeds, right?"},{"startTime":3793.258,"endTime":3796.738,"body":"So it's an example of really"},{"startTime":3793.258,"endTime":3796.738,"body":"just like they made a, a"},{"startTime":3796.738,"endTime":3800.478,"body":"wise financial decision to"},{"startTime":3796.738,"endTime":3800.478,"body":"acquire a company, which might"},{"startTime":3800.478,"endTime":3802.818,"body":"have seemed silly because"},{"startTime":3800.478,"endTime":3802.818,"body":"it's $300 million and the"},{"startTime":3802.818,"endTime":3805.238,"body":"company's not proven yet, with"},{"startTime":3802.818,"endTime":3805.238,"body":"anything that anyone can name."},{"startTime":3805.728,"endTime":3806.928,"body":"It was actually a sound."},{"startTime":3807.228,"endTime":3808.338,"body":"Acquisition strategy."},{"startTime":3808.548,"endTime":3809.808,"body":"So I agree with the statement."},{"startTime":3809.838,"endTime":3811.908,"body":"Financial issues really"},{"startTime":3809.838,"endTime":3811.908,"body":"do need financial"},{"startTime":3811.908,"endTime":3813.168,"body":"engineering to solve them."},{"startTime":3813.468,"endTime":3815.928,"body":"Modern problems require"},{"startTime":3813.468,"endTime":3815.928,"body":"modern solutions."},{"startTime":3815.988,"endTime":3816.228,"body":"There you go."},{"startTime":3816.528,"endTime":3821.208,"body":"On a scale of the Titanic"},{"startTime":3816.528,"endTime":3821.208,"body":"versus lifeboat construction"},{"startTime":3821.208,"endTime":3825.018,"body":"index, where zero is we"},{"startTime":3821.208,"endTime":3825.018,"body":"don't need lifeboats, this"},{"startTime":3825.018,"endTime":3828.198,"body":"ship is unsinkable versus,"},{"startTime":3825.018,"endTime":3828.198,"body":"we need a lifeboat spot"},{"startTime":3828.198,"endTime":3829.398,"body":"for every single customer."},{"startTime":3829.698,"endTime":3832.248,"body":"Probably two, just in"},{"startTime":3829.698,"endTime":3832.248,"body":"case everyone panics."},{"startTime":3832.548,"endTime":3835.178,"body":"I'm gonna give this"},{"startTime":3832.548,"endTime":3835.178,"body":"category a solid 1.5."},{"startTime":3835.278,"endTime":3837.018,"body":"So half a lifeboat for"},{"startTime":3835.278,"endTime":3837.018,"body":"every customer, right?"},{"startTime":3837.078,"endTime":3838.008,"body":"Yeah, I like it."},{"startTime":3838.308,"endTime":3840.558,"body":"Customers should be smart enough"},{"startTime":3838.308,"endTime":3840.558,"body":"to find their own lifeboat"},{"startTime":3840.858,"endTime":3842.778,"body":"you know, early in"},{"startTime":3840.858,"endTime":3842.778,"body":"the podcast we said."},{"startTime":3843.078,"endTime":3846.288,"body":"Every product manager should"},{"startTime":3843.078,"endTime":3846.288,"body":"ask their CFO one question,"},{"startTime":3846.678,"endTime":3849.768,"body":"what percentage of our"},{"startTime":3846.678,"endTime":3849.768,"body":"revenue goes to debt service?"},{"startTime":3850.158,"endTime":3853.738,"body":"And if the CFO won't tell"},{"startTime":3850.158,"endTime":3853.738,"body":"you keep that resume updated."},{"startTime":3854.038,"endTime":3854.338,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":3854.488,"endTime":3857.128,"body":"Another thing we discovered"},{"startTime":3854.488,"endTime":3857.128,"body":"today is product-led"},{"startTime":3857.128,"endTime":3859.408,"body":"growth and private equity"},{"startTime":3857.128,"endTime":3859.408,"body":"are like oil and water."},{"startTime":3859.798,"endTime":3863.998,"body":"One requires a patient"},{"startTime":3859.798,"endTime":3863.998,"body":"application of money,"},{"startTime":3864.418,"endTime":3867.288,"body":"and the other requires"},{"startTime":3864.418,"endTime":3867.288,"body":"an inpatient shaking of"},{"startTime":3867.288,"endTime":3868.338,"body":"things to get things going."},{"startTime":3868.728,"endTime":3871.188,"body":"You can shame 'em together,"},{"startTime":3868.728,"endTime":3871.188,"body":"but they'll separate the moment"},{"startTime":3871.188,"endTime":3874.068,"body":"that you stop stirring and"},{"startTime":3871.188,"endTime":3874.068,"body":"you'll end up with a mess."},{"startTime":3874.548,"endTime":3874.998,"body":"Yikes."},{"startTime":3875.298,"endTime":3878.458,"body":"Instant Pot, didn't fail"},{"startTime":3875.298,"endTime":3878.458,"body":"because it was a bad product."},{"startTime":3878.488,"endTime":3881.168,"body":"I don't think anyone will"},{"startTime":3878.488,"endTime":3881.168,"body":"agree it was a bad product."},{"startTime":3881.168,"endTime":3882.428,"body":"It was a great product, and"},{"startTime":3881.168,"endTime":3882.428,"body":"it was used for many different"},{"startTime":3882.428,"endTime":3885.738,"body":"things other than actual cooking"},{"startTime":3882.428,"endTime":3885.738,"body":"of food it failed because of"},{"startTime":3885.738,"endTime":3888.738,"body":"financial engineering that"},{"startTime":3885.738,"endTime":3888.738,"body":"turned a kitchen appliance into"},{"startTime":3888.738,"endTime":3890.808,"body":"a leveraged buyout casualty."},{"startTime":3891.108,"endTime":3895.368,"body":"And this podcast was about"},{"startTime":3891.108,"endTime":3895.368,"body":"your product not being next."},{"startTime":3895.668,"endTime":3896.418,"body":"You have been warned."},{"startTime":3896.768,"endTime":3899.528,"body":"This was a little bit longer"},{"startTime":3896.768,"endTime":3899.528,"body":"than I expected this podcast"},{"startTime":3899.528,"endTime":3903.848,"body":"to be by about twice the"},{"startTime":3899.528,"endTime":3903.848,"body":"length, but worth every minute."},{"startTime":3903.908,"endTime":3905.678,"body":"But listen, I hope"},{"startTime":3903.908,"endTime":3905.678,"body":"you enjoyed this one."},{"startTime":3905.788,"endTime":3907.288,"body":"As much as I enjoy this one,"},{"startTime":3907.288,"endTime":3909.448,"body":"sorry, I love talking"},{"startTime":3907.288,"endTime":3909.448,"body":"about private equity."},{"startTime":3909.448,"endTime":3911.848,"body":"I would do it any day of the"},{"startTime":3909.448,"endTime":3911.848,"body":"day of the week for free."},{"startTime":3912.148,"endTime":3914.908,"body":"I have scars on my"},{"startTime":3912.148,"endTime":3914.908,"body":"back thanks to pe so I"},{"startTime":3914.908,"endTime":3915.958,"body":"really did enjoy this."},{"startTime":3915.958,"endTime":3916.648,"body":"That was great."},{"startTime":3916.948,"endTime":3918.718,"body":"If you did too,"},{"startTime":3916.948,"endTime":3918.718,"body":"please let us know."},{"startTime":3918.778,"endTime":3920.728,"body":"down in the comments"},{"startTime":3918.778,"endTime":3920.728,"body":"below, and don't forget"},{"startTime":3920.728,"endTime":3921.778,"body":"the like and subscribe."},{"startTime":3921.838,"endTime":3925.378,"body":"Oh, and also I have a part two."},{"startTime":3925.868,"endTime":3927.688,"body":"Coming up soon of this podcast."},{"startTime":3928.078,"endTime":3930.478,"body":"Let me pitch you on part"},{"startTime":3928.078,"endTime":3930.478,"body":"two of this podcast."},{"startTime":3930.868,"endTime":3934.768,"body":"I feel that most product people"},{"startTime":3930.868,"endTime":3934.768,"body":"and most development teams do"},{"startTime":3934.768,"endTime":3936.928,"body":"not understand the finance."},{"startTime":3937.228,"endTime":3937.558,"body":"Okay."},{"startTime":3937.748,"endTime":3941.718,"body":"The breadth of finance,"},{"startTime":3937.748,"endTime":3941.718,"body":"the depth of finance as"},{"startTime":3941.718,"endTime":3942.948,"body":"it applies to their jobs."},{"startTime":3943.138,"endTime":3946.588,"body":"I think we should do a whole"},{"startTime":3943.138,"endTime":3946.588,"body":"version of this podcast,"},{"startTime":3946.638,"endTime":3951.178,"body":"except in the vein of why"},{"startTime":3946.638,"endTime":3951.178,"body":"you really should have"},{"startTime":3951.178,"endTime":3952.948,"body":"a say in the financials."},{"startTime":3953.248,"endTime":3954.658,"body":"it's a very worthwhile topic."},{"startTime":3954.688,"endTime":3957.808,"body":"I've not seen anybody touch"},{"startTime":3954.688,"endTime":3957.808,"body":"this as a podcast topic, so"},{"startTime":3957.808,"endTime":3958.768,"body":"this will be good, right?"},{"startTime":3958.828,"endTime":3959.098,"body":"Yes."},{"startTime":3959.338,"endTime":3962.308,"body":"Alright, that may or may not be"},{"startTime":3959.338,"endTime":3962.308,"body":"the follow up to this one, but"},{"startTime":3962.558,"endTime":3966.038,"body":"if it is or if it isn't, we'll"},{"startTime":3962.558,"endTime":3966.038,"body":"see you in the next podcast."}]}