The Inclusive Business Lab
The Inclusive Business Lab
Breaking the Cycle: Healing, Shame & Mental Wellness in the Black Community w/ Carolyn J
So many of us were raised with the unspoken rule: "What happens in this house stays in this house."
But at what cost?
In this episode of The Inclusive Business Lab, I sat down with Carolyn J—author, mental health advocate, and life coach—to have the conversation too many of us never got to have growing up.
We talk about:
+ How shame & fear keep us silent
+ The connection between faith & mental wellness
+ Why healing is messy—but necessary
Carolyn shares her personal journey, what pushed her to finally break the cycle, and how we can move from managing trauma to true healing.
✨ Your story matters. Your emotions matter. Your healing matters. ✨
My prayer was, lord, just let me die in my sleep. That was a prayer for someone that was younger than 8 years old. And I know I prayed that for years because my life was so awful. I had two siblings to perish in a house fire. After that, I began to question, lord, why did you save me out of the fire? That was my opportunity to die. We're gonna get better.
>> Lakeisha:Welcome back, everyone, to another episode of the Inclusive Business Lab. I, am your host, Lakeisha Angelique. If you do not know me, I am m a diversity strategist and business mentor for women, specifically women of color, helping you move, in life, business all around, holistically. Today, I'm super excited, and I know I say this every time, how excited I am about a guest, but I'm definitely excited to have this conversation because it's about mental health, shame, and breaking that cycle in the black community. And my guest to today is a author and mental health advocate, Carolyn. And we've already had some conversations, so I'm so excited to have this conversation with her today. Welcome, Carolyn.
>> Carolyn:Good morning. Thank you for, inviting me to have this wonderful conversation. Much needed conversation for our.
>> Lakeisha:Absolutely, yes. You know how they say some people are just, like, attracted to you and you know that you're in the right. That is what happened when I reached out to Carolyn on LinkedIn and happened to get into her space and see exactly what she was out here doing for our community. And it's amazing. Her book is, available for purchase. We'll talk all about that. So, Carola, why don't you introduce yourself and tell us where you're from, how you got into the mental health field, and then we'll get into some, deeper questions about all of that.
>> Carolyn:Well, I am. I am the oldest of six children who was born originally in Helena, Arkansas. And I've experienced quite a bit of child trauma. and the child trauma was, I think what they call, compiled or it was just continuous. And the thing is, for me is that as time went on, when there's unfulfilled or unresolved trauma, you live in a mode of bitterness, anger, fear and shame. And after a while, you get tired of it. And so I decided one day'like, you know something, I know there's better for me. And so I begin my research as far as how to. How to better myself. And so I am an author. The name of my book is called God, why did you save me? And the name of my business is Firm foundations, community outreach, and I am a Christian life coach. So I'm on this journey to help other Christian spiritual women recognize their God given purpose, help them break up with fear and to prioritize their self care.
>> Lakeisha:That is amazing because for a couple of reasons, you know, black people, black women specifically in the church. And the connection between mental health issues and seeking help is really a barrier, would you say?
>> Carolyn:Yes. unfortunately our m history, our culture is known to sweep things under the rug. What goes on in the house stays in the house and that only allows the perpetrator to continue. That only allows the mental health of everybody really, but specifically the person that is enduring the trauma to decline. And when you have experience continuous trauma, we tend to look at or gravitate to coping mechanism. and usually they're unhealthy. So everything from smoking, sexing, drugging, eating and later on those things turn on you. And so when it comes to our culture, we bring that same thing into the church. You go to your past because that's who you know. But unfortunately the pastor is uneducated when it comes to mental health and so he's there to fe your spirit man. But your soul is still traumatized.
>> Lakeisha:Yeah. So how do you think you made that ah, that leap from just your faith and hoping and praying that you would be healed versus saying I think I need more than prayer and I need to really start researching and figure out how to heal this trauma with science.
>> Carolyn:Well, with me it was the Holy Ghost, it was the Lord that led me on my journey. You know, I began to look at depression and anxiety becaused it was the Lord that actually showed me that's what I was suffering with. I was never truly diagnosed, but I knew something was wrong. And so on my journey I took the class, mental health first aid successfully completed that course. And it said once you complete that course, if you want to go deeper, you can go into the 40 hour training. Well, I'm in Tennessee and so I successfully completed the 40 hour training and I became certified as a peer in the state of Tennessee. and when it comes to my faith, it became my bedrock. I always had a longing or love for the Lord. But with God's help I realized that you, your why has to be greater than your circumstances. So my faith, my longing, my love for the Lord became my why. Because when you start this process of healing and recovery, it's messy but it's necessary.
>> Lakeisha:Yes, I think that's a great point. That healing, from this compounded and continuous trauma is not a, linear. You, right, you had this awakening and you knew that you needed to seek some type of help. And we still fall down during this process. And you think, like, maybe it's not working. let's talk a little bit about how in your book you talk about, like, what you went through and the continuous trauma and how shame really played a part in taking this long to get here.
>> Carolyn:Yes. Shame and fear, those are two things or two ingredients that will keep you hiding, in the shadows. the thing is you want to open up, you want to tell people what happened to you, but that keeps you from doing it. and then it'then. It's exposure. So when you, if you begin to open up and tell people, now you're exposing people. And now and the fear sets in because it's like, what are my family is going to think about this? You know, and especially if you already deem the black sheep of the family anyway. But a lot of times you end up being the black sheep of the family because, you're already different. But a lot of times it's because of the things that has happened to you, caused you to be different.
>> Lakeisha:Yeah.
>> Carolyn:So you might as well go on and walk on in ye.
>> Lakeisha:You know, the world we live in now, we see a lot of, you know, sexual abuse allegations coming forward many, many, many years later. And you can see the different, discourse with people, whether they believe it. Why did you wait so long? So I think some of our societal messaging, leads us to wait and to say anything too.
>> Carolyn:Right.
>> Lakeisha:The messenger that we get. Is anybody going to believe me? I'm already the black sheep of the family. I'm going to mess up their home or will they go to jail, all of these things, which is a really huge burden for somebody, especially if you're young. You know, then this happens too, to bear. Right. The responsibility of having really somebody else's life in your hand. I don't think people realize how much pressure that is to come forward, and remove that shame. But having these type of conversations where we normalize, having these conversations and normalize, seeking help is what I think is going to help remove that stigma from getting out. Getting help in any way that you feel is going toa be best for you.
>> Carolyn:Yes. and then that's why it's essential that your faith is the bedrock, the cornerstone. M Because if you already identified as a Christian or spiritual person, that's where your strength is gonna come from, because you're gonna need all the strength that you can muster up, just on the journey, you know, just the journey itself else is grueling. I'm not, you know, and I tell people I'm not here to make it look cute because it's not right. but I tell people that there's a life on the other side of trauma. But you've got to do the work. If you want to move forward and realize what your purpose is and actually walk in the purpose, you've got to move through this thing. It's possible.
>> Lakeisha:And why did you use the book as a vehicle? Why did you think a book, what led you to writing a book?
>> Carolyn:In all honesty, the. My spiritual. One of my spiritual, my spiritual gift is prophetic gifting. And the Lord already told me in my early 20s that I was going to write a book, but I was a single mother at that time. And so when you are single motheriving you're living in survival mode. You don't care about the future. So when the Lord let me know that I was going toa write a book, I'm like, okay, you know, whatever I'm trying to get through today. but. So I already knew that I was going to write a book. surely I forgot about it because your mind is consumed with so much. But when the opportunity came from me to. And I met the lady that is a publisher, she's a mental health coach. later on I realized that she was a publisher. And when I told her my story, she was like, oh, my God. She said, where is your book? And I'm like, what about it? I'll get to it in about five years. And she just laughed at me. And she's like, no, ma'am, you're going to write this book now. And after that meeting that was only supposed to last 30 minutes, it lasted two hours because we jail just that much. And so she was like, what's holding you back? I said, well, one thing I know, it's going to be expensive. Second of all, I don't even know what the process is. And I'm thinking the process is grueling. She said, if I can guarantee you the process to be simple, would you do it? I'm like, let's go for it. And I met her in June. My book was released November 1st of last year. And it was, the only grueling part was, is having to remember the things, having to talk about it. but that's why your faith has to be, you know, cultivated, because it's like three times I Stopped two times. The Lord said, you either you. Your story matters and it has to be told. And if you don't tell it, nobody will know it.
>> Lakeisha:Little snippet, because this book, this is what hooked me into Carolyn here. This book and what is in it. And it's your life. So, let's give a little snippet of what you discussed in the book and what brought you to where you are today.
>> Carolyn:Okay. well, the name of the book is called God, what did you save me? The background of the title. Because I'm just constantly hearing from people, the title, its. It's just gut wrenchting. the title comes from the question that I consistently asked the Lord. prior to eight years old, my prayer was, lord, just let me die in my sleep. That was a prayer for, someone that was younger than 8 years old. And I know I prayed that for years because my life was so awful. And so I had two siblings to perish in a house fire when I was 8 years old. And after that, my question turned my question. I began to question, lord, why did you save me out of the fire? That was my opportunity to die. But I didn't know that I did that until enough people kept asking me, why did you name the book that? And I had to go and ask the Lord. I'm like, lord, why did you tell me? And. But everybody assumed it was spiritual. Everybody assumed that it was, oh, you were saved for such a time as this. And the Lord say, it has nothing to do with spirituality. It had everything to do with why did I save you out of the fire? And so the book is a snapshot of my life from childhood to adult. the oldest of six children. I had to take care of them, later on, the Lord helped me to sense that my mom endured her own trauma, which is why our relationship was so rocky. I just thought my mom hated me because she had me when she was 16 years old. And so it was childhood trauma. The childhood trauma, molestation, when I was like, four, five, or six. And that's where I learned to put on a mask. And that's where I learned to keep deep secrets. So that's what happened just regularly, really, throughout the rest of my life. It silenced me for the rest of my life. And I lost my voice. Never had a voice, because really, I was born during a time where children were seen and not heard.
>> Lakeisha:Yes, yes. Such an amazing story. and a story that is a lot of people's story. And that's why I say having These conversations, I'm sure there's someone listening or watching that is shaking their head, saying, you know, that's exactly how I felt. Or I've been through that. And to see you overcome, write a book about it and be thriving and then want to give back to the community, right? Give back to people who could be stuck in that place where they're not sure how to even move from depression, anxiety, ptsd, all of those things. M. To reach out for help. So we're go going toa. Continue to have these conversations. Mental health matters will definitely be, a continuous conversation that we have, and reaching out to people like Carolyn who have battled and overcome. And also that saying that this is not that linear. Right? Because while you have all this awakening, you still have struggles, right? You still. And I think people have this ideal of perfection, like, you're healed, it's over. Right? You're still thinking, so did your book have any impact on your family and friends? Like, like you feared.
>> Carolyn:You know something? It. Let's see. The book was released November of last year, and in honesty, my mother's sister, I just knew it wasn to not go well with her and. But it was the opposite. My cousin, which was her daughter, purchased a book, and I think my aunt saw the book and told her to order my book. And my aunt. And my aunt called me and she was like, carol, I didn't know you were going through this. Why didn't you tell me? It was no anger, nothing. Such a relief it was. And I'm like. And I was looking at the phone, I like, am I being pumped? What is going. So, I mean, not to say that everybody's going to have that experience, but that meant so much to me. And then again, the few people that have purchased the book, it. I pray that it gets in the hands of those to let them know that regardless of who accepts it or not, your mental health is your decision and your responsibility.
>> Lakeisha:Yes, absolutely. I want everybody to read your book, whether they're struggling with this or not, just for awareness. Right. Like you said, your aunt was like, oh, I didn't know you were going through this. And I think people think depression looks a certain way or depression acts a certain way, and sometimes it doesn't. We put these masks on and push forward. And you. We're a single mom, so you had to do everything you could to take care of your child. And we take a back burner in our lives when we have things to get done. So I'm. I so happy that you have been Able to even acknowledge all of that and have these conversations. we're both in Tennessee, which was another like, oh my God, I can't believe we've connected with each other. So tell me about the work that you're doing in. Because you're Memphis, right?
>> Carolyn:I am.
>> Lakeisha:You're Memphis. Tell me about the work you're doing locally in Memphis. And also on your platform, your website, how people can connect with you and what that looks like, what kind of outreach you do. How can they use you to get better?
>> Carolyn:Well, I deem myself as a bridge and my business is two sided. There's the pure side of the, of the business which is outreach. And I define it as education and awareness. So it's just a continuation of the increase of mental, Mental health. Mental health resources in the black community, but more specifically the church. There's too many people suffering in silence in the church, because the conversation is not open. and then there are words that are being used that caused the person to withdraw. So when, when you hear other people in the church, and specifically the ministerial staff, allh, these people are crazy or you know, terms like that, you're not, you know, that's not warming and an inviting. Right. And so my goal with the peer side of the business is to continue the education and awareness of mental health, mental health resources. and can I consistently and intentionally connect with black mental health professionals, whether they're social workers, therapists, psychologists, just whatever we need. so I have a podcast on that side of the business and it's called the Black Mental Health Forum. And I intentionally connect and interview, Black mental health professionals. Now I take the holistic approach when it comes to mental health because everything affects our mental health. I have learned that we all have mental health, but not all of us have mental wellness. There is a difference. So, my goal is to help us, embrace our mental health so we can move towards mental wellness.
>> Lakeisha:I love that. Oh my God, I love that so much.
>> Carolyn:And so I have the podcast that interviews the black mental health professionals, tell what they do, the purpose of it and the benefits of it. And we're always talking about healthy coping mechanisms or strategies. the other thing is, there's a support group that I want to restart and it's called Transitioning from Trauma. And finally there is a service that was born out of what I wish I had and it's called the listening sessions. and if people don't realize that there's a difference between listening and Hearing, listening is active. You're in the moment with the person that is talking. and I call it my super powerower because I'm a peer. And that's one of the biggest thing is, is actually giving the person space to talk without interruptions and without judgment. So the listening sessions is a, service that I also provide. And it's for those of us who are deemed a strong one, and we have nobody to talk to, is those of us who are, again, deemed the stronger. We may have one or two people we can talk to, but we don't fully tell everything. We may be speaking in code, but that space is for us to just talk. And I believe that there's a lot of us that are angry walking around because we don't have anybody to just let us talk, Just listen to us without interruptions. So that's. That's the pure side of the business. and then there's the coaching side of the business, and that's, you know, I haven't done anything with that yet, but that part of the business is very important to me.
>> Lakeisha:Yes, absolutely. And for those of you who saw our village, episode, we talked about the collective and really recreating this village concept that we've heard about, but that doesn't really exist. And inside of the collective is where we'll have peer mentors and experts, community experts like Carolyn, and they're doing coaching, which she says she's not doing yet, but she will be doing inside of the collective. I'm telling her now, as a coach, to get us healthy and moving from our mental health to mental wellness. All right, Carolyn, let's end with one tip. If somebody give one tip today that they can start to move from managing mental health and just dealing with it, masking it, to getting on that journey to mental health wellness, what would it.
>> Carolyn:Be outside of the fact that your voice matters, your story matters, your emotions matter, your purpose is greater than the pain. And I even have to still tell myself that now because the old Carolyn is still in there. That voice, that monster that tells you, you, you know, you're not qualified to speak on this. I have to tell myself that daily. So the struggle is real, recovery is messy, and like you said earlier, there is no perfection, just being authentic.
>> Lakeisha:I just love having conversations with Carol. I'm gonna have her on speed now. so. So tell everybody where they can follow you so they can have you on speedl as well, and how they can purchase your book.
>> Carolyn:The book again is, God, why don't you save me. And it's available on Amazon. And when it comes to social media, Instagram, TikTok, LinkedIn and Facebook, there is a business page for, LinkedIn as well as Facebook Firm Foundations co. And then Carolyn J. Murphy, on the social media.
>> Lakeisha:Amazing, which is my favorite word. We will, post all of that in the show notes below, so you don't have to try to write that down very quickly. Just click on the links and you will be able to connect quickly with Carolyn and continue to follow her journey to all things greatness and move from mental health to mental wellness. And we will see you on the next episode. Thank you so much for being here today. Have a good day.
>> Carolyn:Either way, we're gonna get better.