Mark H Rooney: A Conversation on Taiko, Tradition, and Identity

In this episode of SLANT, host Dana Tai Soon Burgess interviews Mark H. Rooney, master taiko drummer and founder of the annual Sakura Taiko Fest in Washington, D.C. Mark reflects on his biracial Japanese American identity and the complexities of navigating cultural belonging in both the U.S. and Japan. He shares his journey from growing up in Massachusetts to finding his cultural roots through taiko drumming, eventually becoming a prominent instructor and performer in the U.S., Japan, and Europe. Dive into a rich conversation about the history of taiko, its spiritual and historical significance, and the power of cultural arts in fostering connections across continents. Mark also highlights the evolution of taiko as a modern ensemble performance and his ongoing mission to teach and expand the art form.

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Transcript

Dana 0:26

Welcome to slant podcast. This is your host, Dana Tasson Burgess. This podcast is an ongoing conversation around the Asian American experience through the lens of artists and luminaries. Thank you for tuning in. Today's guest is Japanese American taiko instructor and performer, Mark Rooney. He's the founder of the annual Sakura Taiko Fest in Washington, D. C. For over 25 years, Mark has taught interested adults, seniors, and children, as well as other professional taiko drummers in the United States, Japan, and Europe. He's a director of the Mark H. Rooney Taiko School, which serves the District of Columbia, Maryland, and Virginia. Welcome, Mark. Thank you for joining us today. Mark, will you tell us where you grew up and how you were introduced to taiko?

Mark 1:19

I grew up in New Bedford, Massachusetts about an hour south of Boston. And that's actually where I first encountered taiko at a festival, I want to say in 1995. Perhaps it was at the Jon Manjiro Festival, actually. It's a Japanese cultural festival that's held in my hometown. Because the briefest of histories, Jon Manjiro was the first Japanese to live in the United States for about ten years. And he lived in my hometown where I grew up,

Dana 1:51

oh, amazing. And you are Japanese American and you're biracial. Can you tell us a little bit about what that was like growing up in Massachusetts?

Mark 2:02

Certainly as a Japanese American growing up in a suburb of New Bedford, which is a larger city, but there weren't a lot of Asians in general in that area. So certainly I don't think any other of Japanese descent. My mother is an immigrant from Japan, so I'm second generation on her side. My father's parents are Scottish immigrants, actually from Edinburgh. it was a little bit isolating, being the sort of token Asian in my school, especially, started through elementary school and into middle school, with a Very small population. So I was absolutely the token Asian kid.

Dana 2:44

And did you long for a connection to your Japanese side?

Mark 2:52

it was an odd sort of love and hate in a sense, I think, mother being so Japanese, I grew up raised by a Japanese, like true Japanese mother in that sense. So I had a lot of the sort of cultural upbringing and it certainly shaped a lot of how. I was as a person. But then there was also that, everyone else wanting to fit in, wanting to be a part of the, crowd and always feeling like I was outside of that. And at the same time, I did develop, both a thick skin, but also a fierce pride. I did really enjoy that aspect of our lives, in my family that we had all these traditions, and we followed a lot of Japanese traditions, and for me that was actually something that I did really embrace a lot.

Dana 3:38

And so in the day you were speaking English, but in the evenings or when you were home, was your household bilingual or were you speaking in Japanese with your mother?

Mark 3:51

No I grew up entirely speaking English. I grew up in the 70s, and it was a very different time, as far as people understanding linguistic capability as well as culturally. mother was told specifically to not speak Japanese to her kids, otherwise they'll never learn English. My father, who's conversational in Japanese even though he's not Japanese, so my parents they would talk to each other in Japanese when they wanted to keep secrets from the kids. And it was much later in life. My sister actually studied the language in college. So then suddenly she could speak Japanese. I was the only one who didn't. And then I learned Japanese actually indirectly through learning Taiko and then moving to Japan so that I could study more. And it was some of that immersion, but I'd say I still, have a very rudimentary conversational. Coupled with the dialect and things from where I was living in Japan. So I never really learned proper formal Japanese in that sense.

Dana 4:53

And so there's this outsider kind of perspective that's going on when you're growing up here in America. But when you went to Japan to study, were you also an outsider or were you embraced there?

Mark 5:07

Oh, no, yeah, I was a hundred percent an outsider. for me growing up, I always felt so Japanese. I always felt Gosh, I thought I would live in Japan someday. I thought I would go there and feel at ease around my own people. And we visited there as a family a couple times during my childhood. And, I always just felt so comfortable and at ease there. But living there became a very different sort of thing. When I went there and lived there as an adult I was, oh yeah, no I'm 100 percent American I felt very American, and certainly everyone treated me as as an outsider, as the gaikokujin or shortened to gaijin is the sort of term that's used.

Dana 5:48

I think that's a very common experience for individuals who are of mixed race descent, right? Like I know I felt that in going back to Korea, there was a part of me when I grew up in America that I thought, Oh, things will be different when I go to Korea. But then when I went to Korea, I definitely realized that I was Asian American, that the American part was so strong for sure. And how did your parents meet?

Mark 6:13

My father's originally from Massachusetts, outside of Boston, and he was in the Air Force after college. For a short time, and he decided after leaving the Air Force that he was going to just travel because he, got to fly over all these different places but he never really got to, see it up close, and he had a real interest In people, in cultures and languages so he spent four years after the Force just traveling around the world mostly on a motor scooter, and picked up languages, but he really fell in love with Japan during that time. He spent, I think, a total of 10 months in Japan out of those four years so learned the language, and when he returned to the United States, he was offered a job in in New Bedford, Massachusetts. And at around the same time, my mother who grew up in Japan was given an opportunity through these missionaries to move to the United States for, five years and maybe study English and art and things like that. She took up that opportunity. She Doing like a homestay living in New Bedford, Massachusetts as well. It was I don't know, inevitable that they would find each other, especially he being the only other bilingual person in the area. Yeah, that was and that's how they met,

Dana 7:31

and did they encourage your journey in the art of taiko?

Mark 7:36

Yes and no. In a very typical kind of parental way, especially, my mother, she was not necessarily encouraging me in the idea of you should become an artist, even though she herself was an artist as well as a visual artist, but she didn't see the practicality of, Pursuing something in the arts. First I went to Boston University to study film, and I think that was the first time that she was like, Oh, no, why don't you study something you can use in the real world? I was like, and then shortly after I had graduated, or maybe You know, a couple years after I graduated and I discovered Taiko and started doing, that and when I started pursuing that, she's like, Oh, why don't you why don't pursue that film degree that you got, because that was actually the step up that was like, that has more practical application than this sort of drumming, I would say on the other end of it. Subconsciously, they've always supported this idea. My parents really exposed my sister and I to a lot of arts growing up. I just remember always going to museums and symphonies and, the ballet and to all of these things. And not to mention that, my mother also. Did appreciate and try to nurture our interests in Japanese culture, really see our own heritage. So I think that, without meaning to they had really encouraged me in that direction anyway.

Dana 9:06

Did you have a Taiko mentor?

Mark 9:10

Yes. And. Yes, and yes, by that, I can't say at first that I had one person, that I would consider a mentor, but I had many, actually, I was coming into Taiko at a time when it was really expanding quite a lot in North America so the idea was That I had the opportunity to study with, and learn from, and interact with, and even perform with some of the pioneers of contemporary taiko, was really intriguing, and just right time, right place, but on the other end of that, I tell a lot of young taiko players who are asking how do I get into this as a professional route, or how do I at least become much more dedicated player? And I always tell them you have to be there, like in the room, you have to show up, you have to always go to that thing. You can't just wait for it to just suddenly happen to you. I think that my pursuit at the time was just, a little bit relentless, so I would show up at all these events mostly on the west coast because that's where most of the community was. And I would say that I learned from so many of these great pioneers in the North American taiko scene. By the time I moved to Japan, I had such a basis and even connection already to the Japanese taiko scene there. There in Japan I met a young man named Ryo Shimamoto. I consider him a mentor, but almost more like a brother. And he and I just hit it off on a very personal level. And we just, we saw taiko very much. In a very similar way. And he was really the, one of my favorite performers as well as I'd say my very favorite teacher for Taiko. And he, inside of the practice and inside of the classes, he was absolutely an amazing teacher and would guide me through, but outside of the classes, because I was older, I was more like the older brother outside. So I'd always, try to take care of him and, since moving back to the States, I've brought him to the States several times in order to teach because I wanted to share, his teaching with as many people as possible, but also to help him grow his career more internationally.

Dana 11:29

And how different is the practice of Taiko in the U. S. compared to Japan?

Mark 11:35

That's a very important question. I think I get asked that a lot. And, I can only say, from my own experiences. Because there's so many facets and areas of Taiko that people can get even further into a niche so it's hard to condense it down, but I would say there's a considerable difference in the context. And it was something that struck me a lot about context of Taiko. Why people drum, why people would study or pursue any sort of cultural art, in some cases it's right there. It's readily available. A student asked me recently, it's like the Japanese taiko players must be so much better than the American taiko players because they're always have access to it. and I disagree with that because. Japan, you don't have to make a strong pursuit, like this could be a Friday night club in your town that you just join and, very casual about. In the United States, if you want to pursue something like that, you have to, seek out a teacher. You have to really show it dedication to it. So I think that's one of the differences, but also the paradigm for learning and teaching taiko is completely different. Because I came to taiko a little bit late in a sense. I didn't start when I was five or six. I didn't start even in these collegiate groups. I started post collegiate and that means, I was already starting to get old for being a professional taiko drummer. And that I was okay with. I was comfortable with that, but I did feel like I, could accomplish the mission of trying to become a better teacher for Taiko so that I could, really share that around with as many as possible. So while I was in Japan for three years from 2000 to 2003,, I filled all these notebooks with all these notes and all these lesson plans. I would visit Taiko groups some like big name professional groups, and some of them are just local festival groups, and I'd always just take notes of how are people learning, how are people leading, how are people practicing who is teaching who, and I had all these, this grand plan for when I returned to the States, I was going to start my own Taiko school, and then I returned to the States, and I realized I had a grand plan on how to teach Japanese people in Japan, and it's entirely different when you do that in the United States. So the whole idea for me that, learning, or even the method of learning is also culturally based. That was a big epiphany for me at that moment.

Dana 14:16

And what do you think the fundamental difference is in learning structures?

Mark 14:21

In Japan even the verb to teach Oshieru comes from a root of, more like to demonstrate. And the verbs for learning are more like copying. The way that it would work in Japan generally is that someone would show you something, and then you'd try to do it, and then they'd say, no, that was wrong, and then they'd show it to you again, and you'd do it and just repeat the process until either you get it or you give up. So it became self selecting in that way. Whereas in the United States, there's this sort of general belief that anyone should be able to learn anything. it's like in the United States the root and path that you would take for teaching something stems from the student, from the idea of like the student has a way that they learn and you have to try to find, how to connect to that. In Japan, it was much more based on the teacher. It's like the teacher as a way of teaching. And you either connect to that or you don't.

Dana 15:15

Oh, fascinating. Taiko's history in Japan is over 1400 years old. Will you tell us about Taiko's history and its connections, not only to warfare, but also its religious implications?

Mark 15:31

The history of Taiko in Japan is, really fascinating to me, but I feel like it's very much like almost any other aspect of Japanese culture. It's so interrelated and integrated into their culture. I always tell people that, when you learn Japanese language, you're learning so much about various aspects of their culture, but when you learn something like flower arranging, ikebana, you are also learning, like it trickles into every other aspect of their culture. So it's the general lessons of almost everything. Can be interconnected Taiko started really with religious implication especially if you tie it to the Shinto tradition. The Buddhist tradition also uses Taiko, but more in a kind of meditative or prayerful way. Whereas the Shinto tradition being animist, the Taiko was really something that you could used to awaken, to entertain the Kami. In, in everything. So there's so much taiko that would accompany festivals and rituals. And as we look at those festivals now it doesn't feel like a religious kind of aspect, but it roots back always to that religious aspect. It's just that the festivals have changed in their nature where, once upon a time it was a lot more austere and now you can get crepes. As far as, it's connection to warfare. lot of tales of how the taiko could be used not just to spur on your own creativity. soldiers, but to intimidate, the other army, but taiko in its historical context was almost always done as a singular kind of activity. I always try to make it clear to my students that, although what I do is definitely based on a lot of these traditions, especially festival traditions out of Japan the form of taiko as you see it now in the world is almost always this modern Kumi As we call it which means to drum as an ensemble of drums and implies an ensemble of drummers. That's it's a post World War II phenomenon. You know, you go further back in Japanese history, it was usually one drum, one drummer and they would be accompanying something else, whether it's a dance, a ritual a prayer another instrument, instrumentation they used taiko in theater, of course kabuki and no theater both utilize the taiko, but the idea of taiko itself being its own performance and its own performing art and the idea of it being done by many people together at the same time. That's very modern.

Dana 18:15

You mentioned the use of taiko in festivals, especially, and you perform yearly at the National Cherry Blossom Festival here in Washington, D. C. Will you tell us about the significance of the festival and your participation?

Mark 18:32

National Cherry Blossom Festival It's the antithesis of the relationship between Japan and America, or Japanese Americans and America, that we experienced during World War II. Idea of this sort of symbol for friendship, the cherry blossoms, as they were given by the Japanese government. It's when you think about it, it's a little bit mind blowing because that gift was given before World War II. And that sort of survived the trees themselves and the tradition of that tree. symbol of friendship really survived. I think it's a really important festival to see that, this Japanese and Japanese American culture is being celebrated in America's capital, actually, it's tied into the Washington, D. C., zeitgeist, it's such a part of that sort of identity here. And that to me it doesn't erase Japanese American internment during World War II, but it's like taking a different road and a different branch and saying yeah, that was something that happened. And it's just not a road that we want to go down. We're not trying to divert away from that necessarily, but let's celebrate, this kind of rich relationship and cultural exchange. So when I moved to DC, which was in 2011 it was something from the very first that I was like, I definitely want to be involved in this. It's huge. It's tremendous. It goes on for several days and, or weeks. And all these different events around it. And I thought, when I saw Taiko, and it started to play Taiko at different events, I was like, this is fantastic. Why wouldn't we have One day, one event that was all about the taiko. And in fact, at the Sakuramatsuri Street Festival, they would have different taiko groups come in to perform at different stages all throughout the day. And at some point, some of those groups started borrowing my drums because, as you can imagine, the real prohibitive part of playing taiko is having to move these drums around. large drums all around. If you fly, then that makes it almost impossible. We started the Sakura Taiko Fest very humble beginnings in the studio where we practiced, and it grew and grew, and then we said, we asked the National Cherry Blossom Festival if they were interested in partnering up, and for a couple of years they let us be under the auspices of the Cherry Blossom Festival and then as it grew bigger and bigger, I think they saw the sort of potential for it. So now it is, officially a part of the National Cherry Blossom Festival in conjunction with the Kite Festival.

Dana 21:13

Congratulations. That's a huge accomplishment.

Mark 21:17

Thank you. And, for me, it's it still goes back to that sort of grassroots idea. It's an opportunity for these groups from all over the country as well as, the people in my school present to an audience that normally they wouldn't have that kind of access to, its inception, we have still managed to maintain it as all like community groups, non professional groups. Now, some of those groups play at a very professional level, but nonetheless it's not something that we're hiring the biggest names in Taiko from around the country to come and represent, but rather the people who, you know, who study this and are passionate about it, but it's their hobby, it's their thing that they do in their local communities.

Dana 22:01

And why do you think that Taiko is having a renaissance, especially with American college students and other young people right now?

Mark 22:11

that's a good question. And I think about this one a lot. It has been, especially in the East Coast. It definitely has been a huge growth in the collegiate groups on the East Coast in the last two years. 10, 15 years mostly the last 10 years. I don't necessarily know, was, I always tell people though, like Taiko is such an easy sell, it's Hey, do you want to hit this big drum with a big stick and make a huge sound who says no to that, who's I'm good.

Dana 22:39

Oh,

Mark 22:40

It's no, it's like we get to do this and get to do this with other people. I think that's a very important part. It's really, it's the community that it builds. That's for me anyway. That's really where I like to focus in my school.

Dana 22:56

You also are a composer for Taiko and you have a piece called Shin En that is played all around the world. Can you tell us about that?

Mark 23:08

Yes. And so when I was living in Japan for three years, I joined the group in my local town. And they didn't play enough taiko for me. So I joined the group in the neighboring town and they didn't play enough for me. So I joined five different groups while I was living there,

Dana 23:26

That's amazing.

Mark 23:28

Which is a little bit frowned upon in, in the Japanese sense, the Japanese could have. Structure is that you have one teacher, you have one sort of loyalty, right? If you studied in one school, that's always where you studied, but anyway, while I was Playing with five different groups at the end of three years, I wanted to hold a big concert for all of them. And I wanted a song that I could teach to everyone, fairly quickly, but also that everyone could play in on. And that was where I first presented Shin En and because it was a kind of song that could bring together a lot of things. Uh, When I returned to the States, I taught it, of course, to my own group in Boston, but then I started teaching it to all these other groups. And at Taiko conferences as well, so you have representation from a lot of groups. And then at one point I remember I was looking for videos of us playing it online, on YouTube, cause I was trying to show someone the song and I came across all these videos of other groups playing this song, like I had no idea we're playing this song, the first East coast Taiko conference, It was a collegiate conference at first. And all the groups that attended, each performed a song and one of the groups were like, yeah one of our founders learned this from Mark 10 years ago, so this is Shin and I'm like, what I had no idea that he had continued on that way. I had the opportunity to teach it to, some of the apprentices for Kodo, which is probably the world's most famous taiko group right now. When I was visiting in Japan so just started to spread around and now it's become this sort of tradition within my school. When we do that Sakura Taiko Festival as a part of the Cherry Blossom Festival, we always end with Shinnen. And because it's simple enough, we don't have to practice it. We can just have everyone go on the stage and I can just call out what the next line is, and then people play it. And they don't play it perfectly, they might miss a beat or something, but it really You know, that matters so little. It's the energy of everyone coming together to just play a song, gives me, of course, a great deal of joy to see that happen. And just to see all these people playing this song.

Dana 25:48

Mark, will you tell us about the relationship between drumming and movement and choreography? Taiko shares.

Mark 25:59

Yes I think, when I started taiko, really one of the first things that drew me to taiko was the movement quality of it. Often people describe it as it looks like a dance style as much as a drumming style. So I think from the very beginning, I always tied it in to that sort of dance element. and the movement in taiko, a lot of people categorize it all the same, but for me, there are two aspects of movement and one is technique. It's, how do you get a full hit into a drum without injuring your body with the ability to do that repetitively? And then the other one is choreography. It's what movement makes this, elevates this rhythm and elevates this experience for the people watching This coupled with the fact that the director of my first group in Boston, Odaiko New England, her training and her background was in dance before she played taiko. So I think that was also something that called a lot of attention to that. And then I started to do some collaborations of having some dance elements included into some of the pieces that we were doing. And that continued actually it really skyrocketed when I moved to DC because from the very beginning, all of my classes and workshops have been held at the Dance Exchange. And there I encountered, of course, so many dancers and choreographers. And one of them had approached me after class. Because they were having, a dance rehearsal in the next room. Which is really hard to do when you have this drumming coming through the wall. But, she decided to embrace it. And just had everyone move to And inspired, her to want to work with Taiko. I've been working with different dancers and choreographers for most of my time here in D. C. And it's an education to me. I love accompanying dance classes because I learned so much from dance teachers about how the body moves, what's the impetus of motion in the body, and those are things that when you have much better understanding of them, they affect your taiko playing immensely. It's all the greatest taiko players that I know of and the ones that I really enjoy their taiko. They're all fantastic movers. And they understand really, that the hit that you did on the drum to your right side started in your left toe, like they know how to connect the various parts of the body in a way that just is so reminiscent of dancers.

Dana 28:36

Now you and your company of taiko drummers have played in all kinds of venues, not just at festivals, but also from public libraries to even the residence of Vice President Harris. Can you tell us about how the venue affects the performance and what you choose to perform?

Mark 28:59

It's not necessarily the venue that affects the performance as much as the intention for why I'm there. my intention always is actually outreach and education. Being said when I'm playing this, Store opening for Uniqlo or something like that. I know I'm there mostly to just get the crowd hyped You know you know that informs, what the performance is but when I think more in terms of Venue as like performance space, make this distinction with a lot of people. There are performances I do that are gigs. That's, that is my day job. It's my, bread and butter kind of thing. And the gigs are based on what is it the client is looking to do. What is the audience reaction that they're intending. And then there are performances that are me putting something into, a creative element. When I'm designing a concert or something like that, the venue means everything actually I'm not in love with stages. I'm not a huge fan of stage concerts. Which, you don't get me wrong, do love them. But for me, I was moving to DC, which there's so many museums, so many monuments, so many great spaces that, the first two years I was just walking around and I would be like, Oh my gosh, I totally see a Taiko performance here, or really want to put this here. so I enjoy the. but also the inspiration that comes from a physical space and in its limitations, as well as its unique attributes.

Dana 30:38

Neat. And what are you currently working on?

Mark 30:42

Oh, goodness. Currently I'm working on the art of making art, yeah, this is the other side of everything, Taiko artists, like all artists, we don't get into the arts because we really love arts admin, right? We're not getting into the arts because we want to become business people, but I think it is important. For me, it feels like being responsible. To create, a strong arts organization and one that is, helping to further the mission, as an artist I think when I was younger, I had that feeling like, Oh, money is evil. Money destroys creativity, but I see it very differently as money is just another form of energy and energy is required to create, whether it's creative energy, whether it's, the food that you eat, whether it's the money that supports the project. now I'm more thinking towards the future of how do I nurture more sharing of Taiko, especially in classes, especially in workshops. And then I can't say creatively. I'm still composing and trying to make new pieces just based on life experiences. But I think, it was one of those things during the pandemic that was pretty. Devastating, of course, for so many people in the arts, I was not immune to that. Somewhere in there though, I did find the one sort of silver lining was wrote so much more material during that time because I wasn't actively gigging or teaching classes. So I guess I had the time and the energy to do that.

Dana 32:17

Mark, thank you so much for joining us today. You really illuminated how taiko exemplifies cultural resilience and community and we so appreciate that. We wish you the best of luck in the future and look forward to hearing and seeing you at one of your performances soon.

Mark 32:37

Oh, thank you so much for having me. It's an honor.

Dana 32:39

Thank you for tuning in today. Please rate the podcast on your listening platform and tell your friends. Feel free to contact me at slantpodcast. com. It's always great to hear from you, our listeners. A special thanks to our sponsors, the Dana Tassun Burgess Dance Company, the Cherry Blossom Giving Circle, and the Didi Liam Gunawan Hickory Legacy Fund.