The Worthy Physician

Finding Inspiration and Self-Worth in Medicine: Embracing Emotional and Personal Growth with Dr. Sarah Wittry, DO

• Dr. Sapna Shah-Haque MD

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Imagine a world where routine tasks breathe new life into your day with purpose and passion. Join me, Dr. Sapna Shah-Haque, and Dr. Sarah Wittry, as we uncover the transformative journey of finding inspiration and self-reflection in medicine. Together, we explore how aligning our core values with our daily work can fuel both personal and professional growth, even when facing the monotony of routine. Our conversation brings fresh insights into integrating personal passions into the workplace to enhance satisfaction and productivity, especially during those darker winter months when motivation may wane.

We delve into the often-overlooked realm of physicians’ emotional resilience and self-care, acknowledging the heavy burdens they face. From the emotional weight of sharing difficult news with patients to the relentless administrative tasks, we emphasize the critical importance of support systems and self-awareness. Join us as we discuss practical techniques like delegation, short meditations, and breathing exercises that help preserve energy and maintain mental clarity. Dr. Wittry and I share our personal experiences, highlighting how small victories can significantly impact our well-being and inspire ongoing commitment to self-discovery.

Our discussion also touches on the broader themes of self-worth and the power of curiosity. We highlight how embracing one's emotions and desires can lead to significant personal growth, even amidst life's overwhelming demands. We navigate complex emotions with grace by recognizing our inherent worthiness and setting healthy boundaries, especially in caregiving professions. This episode offers a rich exploration of how these principles apply to medicine and beyond, offering listeners a fresh perspective on sustaining inspiration and purpose in their lives. For more on our work and insights, connect with "Vibrant Humans" on LinkedIn and her website.

Connect with Dr. Wittry:
https://www.linkedin.com/in/sarah-wittry/
Vibrant Humans

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Though I am a physician, this is not medical advice. This is only a tool that physicians can use to get ideas on how to deal with burnout and/or know they are not alone. If you are in need of medical assistance talk to your physician.


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Dr. Shah-Haque:

Welcome to another episode of the Worthy Physician. I'm your host, dr Sapna Shah-Haque reigniting your humanity and passion for medicine. With each episode, we bring you inspiring stories, actionable insight and expert advice. Get ready for another engaging conversation that could change the way you think and live as a physician. Your income is your greatest asset, protected with Pattern Life. The easy, stress-free way to find the right disability insurance, with unbiased comparisons and no jargon. Pattern helps you to choose the best policy for your needs. Secure your future today at Pattern Life. The link is in the show notes. Let's dive in. What inspires you, what inspires you to get up every day, put your best foot forward in medicine and in your personal life? Today we're going to dive right into that conversation with Dr Sarah Whitry. Welcome to another episode of the Worthy Physician. I'm your host, dr Sapna Shah-Hawk, reigniting your humanity and passion for medicine. So, sarah, thank you so much for being here today.

Dr. Wittry:

Thank you, Sapna, for joining me as well. It's really a pleasure.

Dr. Shah-Haque:

I'm very happy we got to connect. Life got a little hectic, but here we are.

Dr. Wittry:

Yes, it's how it happens and we roll with it and we still made it happen how it happens and we roll with it, and we still made it happen.

Dr. Shah-Haque:

We did, we did. But let's dive right into inspiration. Sure, what does that word mean to you? It's a good question.

Dr. Wittry:

I think it has shifted over the years for me. Um, currently, how I see inspiration is really like who I am on a personal level and kind of what inspires me, like what are the things that make me feel most passionate and sort of the elements that come with. That really helped me to, like you said, wake up, feel not just a motivation but a sense of flow and energy and just like it's not a slog. So I feel like it has inspiration. Inspiration has to come with a a bit of alignment, probably for me, and that can look wildly different like sometimes day to day, but I think there's like common elements that, as you, or at least for me, as I've, like learned more about myself, I've been able to almost like put it together like a recipe a little bit, the things I keep coming back to.

Dr. Shah-Haque:

No, I would have to agree. It's more than just motivation. It's, it is going to be that alignment alignment with core values, alignment with what I'm doing from day to day is true or aligns with my true self Absolutely. And I think you said a key thing in there about alignment and still getting or learning about yourself. That's an ongoing everyday process.

Dr. Wittry:

Yes, and really it's not a static thing, right, because it's like I don't know I don't know if you can identify this but it's like at certain points in my life, most of my purpose felt like devoted to learning and growth and, like you know, learning all the science and the medicine, and like becoming the best possible doctor I thought I could be and that was really like I don't know.

Dr. Wittry:

Probably I don't know if I can put a percent on it, but that was like my main area of focus and it's like I don't know, in the last decade there's been space, a little bit more space, you know, that I've created, to sort of say like what else, what else makes me who I am and what else makes me find that inspiration and that drive and that like desire to dig into something. And I don't know, it's like a discovery process, really, because when it opens up and it's more than one area of life, that maybe has been like dominating for me or for anyone, right, it's like this process of creativity and like discovery of joy and just like almost like it, I don't know like an energetic thing, right, like what brings me energy, what drains my energy, like those are things I've been really, really learning and like, yeah, finding, finding a lot there to unpack and to like discover and explore.

Dr. Shah-Haque:

And how do you stay on top of that, like how do you stay engaged with still learning about yourself and honoring that?

Dr. Wittry:

the fact that may change during different seasons in life yeah, I'd say that, as far as like staying on top of it, I guess, developing like some consistent practices or habits of checking in with myself, because if I have not done that in the past, it's like kind of just the days and the weeks blend together like a little bit on autopilot, right.

Dr. Wittry:

But if I have a sense and I have a practice, I guess it is of checking in with myself in the morning, checking in with myself in the evening and then kind of growing from there. So now I have little I don't know times of my day that I kind of like look, turn my lens from external and everything going on around me to like an internal practice of even just how you're doing right now. What do you need and I don't know. I think that's like an area I've grown a lot and been able to see. It is helping me become more familiar with myself, right, and kind of the things I may need to replenish myself here and there. If I kind of go, go, go without stopping and there's always, always needs around us, right, as doctors, as moms, like it's like that's not a, that's never something where we just nobody needs us. So it's really been a practice for me, I think of like checking in, tuning in and seeing like what do I need right now?

Dr. Wittry:

And then the next step is like honoring that right, which is uncomfortable because you're like well, I don't have time to like step outside right now. I have to get back to X, y and Z all these things that need to be done. But I think when I'm able to do that, some of the time like I celebrate that as a small win and build on that.

Dr. Shah-Haque:

Yeah, and I think you hit the nail on the head. As physicians and as moms, no matter the age of the kids, um, somebody is always needing something, and it's from mom, though it's really important to hey. If it's five minutes that you get to check in with yourself, or even like a what I call a mommy time out, that's uh a win, and it doesn't have to be hours upon hours, and if you have time for that, fantastic. But yeah, don't forget to check in on yourself, right?

Dr. Wittry:

how about yourself? What do you think like? What are ways that you uh tune in to things that are helping you feel inspired, or like knowing even what that is yeah.

Dr. Shah-Haque:

For me, inspiration is, uh, joy, it is joy, it is a sense of peace with what I'm doing right. So, um, going back to the alignment, I have to know myself and my core values. I don't think necessarily have changed, but they've grown, yeah, as I've grown as a person, and my needs at 42 are much different than at 20. So it's.

Dr. Shah-Haque:

I do make it a point to, like you said, explore that and it's not. I try to every day and sometimes it's a very difficult with some young kids and a career and a family, but I'm holding that space. I find that at night, after the kids have gone to bed, that's my best time and it doesn't have to be.

Dr. Shah-Haque:

Sometimes it's an hour, sometimes it's five minutes but it might be meditation, prayer or even an audio book, creative writing, and so that keeps me inspired. To check in with myself that the creativity helps me to maybe process a difficult day or challenging, I would say yeah, but inspiration for me goes back to exactly what we've been discussing Totally. The only thing I will add is that during the process of whatever I'm doing, I enjoy it and that brings positive energy, which therefore goes forth and multiplies, if you will.

Dr. Wittry:

Yes, absolutely Absolutely. Because it's one thing to kind of like plan and carve out those times for ourselves, right, whether it's like the five minutes of writing or listening to something you enjoy or whatever. And then it's another thing for us or at least for myself, of like being present in the moment and like allowing that inspiration, that energy right To flow through you, in you. Whatever sounds very like spiritual, whatever, but I think it is. It is like a practice and it and it really like amplifies that experience Right, and it's probably some like dopamine in our brain that says like hey, this is a good thing, Like do this again Right, like it's a high return on investment activity for you, because not only is it something that like inspires you, but it also is like something you enjoy a lot while you're doing it and practicing it. So hopefully that like teaches ourselves over time that it's like not only okay, but it's like refueling and energizing and it's's like we should keep doing that stuff you know leaning into it 100.

Dr. Shah-Haque:

And you know I can't say that I've always felt inspired in my career or in my, in my personal life. How about? How about yourself?

Dr. Wittry:

yeah, for sure, I would say. I mean, some of the stuff is kind of like a slog at home, right. It's like it's not very inspiring to do laundry, it's not very inspiring to like tidy the house, right, sometimes you're not very inspiring to be with the kids, like depending on their moods and stuff like that, right, like it's just like you do it. And then, um for sure, at work, um, there's definitely days or seasons where I don't feel that particularly inspired, um, and I think how that's changed for me or how I've tried to integrate some of that, the inspiration, the joy, the like passion, um at work, would be related to small ways even of interacting with, like my colleagues, um, in a way that is, a deeper level of connection, or seeking out that kind of common ground, shared experience, something like that, and I find that brings me like a sense of peace, a sense of purpose for that day.

Dr. Wittry:

Even if it's a five minute interaction in the office when everyone's finishing their notes, if I can like carve that out some days, that's like something that feeds back into my soul, right, and it's like those things, like seeing those things and noticing them and then being like they matter, has been really helpful to me on the days where it's just like nothing seems to go quite right on with your patients or with frustration of things going on, and certainly like other areas I found I'm really passionate about like wellbeing in general and so being able to figure out and almost like chart a path for myself with wellness for my own team.

Dr. Wittry:

I've like carved out some FTE and got some of that. So to just like invest my skills, my energy, my passion into that for our team has been like really inspiring for me or fulfilling Cause it's like a way that I'm like channeling all that stuff I care about a lot into like sprinkling it with everyone else. You know what I mean which a few years ago I would have been like oh, that's like silly, or probably not even thought about it and definitely not thought it was like a possibility to do, to get paid and have dedicated hours a week to do that. You know what I mean.

Dr. Shah-Haque:

But it really does help. That's awesome that you were able to do that, though, because, um, I mean, if a place of work can allow you, support you, and doing something like that is important to you, and we know that that'll help with productivity, totally it's a win-win totally, totally yes.

Dr. Wittry:

Is there anything you found to be inspiring for yourself at work or ways that you like bring that in, because it can be. It can be real challenging when you're like same.

Dr. Shah-Haque:

It sometimes feels like brown hog day, you know, for like going to work doing the same yeah, especially during the winter months, I uh, the shorter daylight hours, it's really hard to uh keep that energy flowing, at least for me. Yes, and so there are seasons, like you were talking about, where I would say I would I feel less inspired. But I think that having great co-workers, having a great place to work and nothing's perfect but have the support, having a community and that team, is so important because I feel like medicine has everybody's in their own office doing notes, but we, over the lunch break or after, at the end of the day, I would say, there's an unofficial huddle where we can de-stress or discuss cases and bounce ideas off of each other. Clinically, you know, for me that has always been, um, a great point of camaraderie and inspiration, because, um, it's just good to have that sounding board.

Dr. Shah-Haque:

Absolutely, I can't just knock something off, sorry about that, but you know it's, uh, it's. But you know it's, uh, it's knowing when I'm hitting a, hitting a, a lower point of inspiration or where the dread of getting caught in a loop of I don't want to say bad energy, but energy, but I'm being aware of my inner thoughts, my inner feelings. That's a must for me. Yes, going back to checking in and if I find that energy level, that motivation, that inspiration level is dropping, then I need to find out, okay, what's going on internally, because I mean I can't change insurances, insurance companies. I hate prior authorizations, they have too much power, but that's the reality of it. So, okay, so I can vent about that, but let's move past that. And what can I do internally to not change my view? But how can I best overcome that obstacle in an efficient and effective manner?

Dr. Wittry:

Right, so it doesn't like drain you for the rest of the day or like send you I don't know. Send you in like a spiral right, like it's not dragging you down all the time.

Dr. Shah-Haque:

Right and it's kind of going back to okay, that was five minutes ago. I need to focus on where I'm at now and if I need to readdress it, I'll readdress it in a timely manner, but also delegating things to the team, to the LPN, to the medical assistant, things like that. So delegation is a big thing for me totally, totally.

Dr. Wittry:

It's a hard skill to develop and practice because it's like we all are like, well, let's do it ourselves because it'll go faster and explain, and da, da, da, like it's easier, it's better, you know, but it's like so freeing when we can do it and like freeze up time and mental space for ourselves, for sure yeah, and that's one thing I think that we as physicians forget, because we do have a limited amount of mental space, even though we have a great ability to compartmentalize and to um triage and handle many things at once.

Dr. Shah-Haque:

one thing we forget is we also have two limited resources, and that is time and energy. Yeah, so I need to know how to use those two resources so that way I can be present at work, I can be efficient, I can be effective, but then also I want to reserve some of that for my crazy kids when I come home, exactly.

Dr. Wittry:

They need a lot of energy.

Dr. Shah-Haque:

Thank God for coffee, but I know there's also a limit to that too. Yes, for sure.

Dr. Wittry:

For sure that's been a practice I've been doing as well.

Dr. Wittry:

Like you said, I've gotten really good at being efficient and like powering through and not procrastinating.

Dr. Wittry:

You know, like I, it's almost like we've had to develop all those things in order to just like make it through the day, um, but sometimes that comes at the expense of stress or anxiety or just feeling disconnected because I'm just pushing through rather than like taking that minute to check in and sometimes, like what I need is not to push through and like just keep going and producing, just keep going and producing. It's I need to like take a step, move my body for a few minutes, need to like do some breathing, do some guided imagery or like a minute, five minute meditation, like something that's like kind of reconnecting me to myself, right, and then I find that I'm more efficient, um, after that and there's less like internal mental and emotional angst, anxiety, I don't know, um, kind of just like stuff that feels draining right inside and it's like I just need that like refresher, restoring, little period, um, and it really does help me, even though, like for a long time I was like no time for that, no time for that, no time for that.

Dr. Shah-Haque:

Yeah, and I find that I have to make time right, because if you consider, um, if in medicine I mean there's a new, there's another patient every 15, 20 minutes. If it's a new patient or a complicated patient, it might be more than that. But imagine that you have I mean, this has been a meme on social media you have a meeting every 15 to 20 minutes, even the c-suite, or even if you go to a conference, there's an intermission, there's time to walk around, uh, answer nature's call, get some water, get some coffee, right. So it's okay to make that time to honor yourself and to answer to your bodily functions, or hydrate or caffeinate.

Dr. Shah-Haque:

I mean, we're human beings too, we're not robots. So for for me, it's very important to like after, uh, breaking bad news, you know, yeah, I'm not okay to jump right in and go see the next patient immediately. I have to sit down, close my office door and take a breath, because these are human beings that we're dealing with and it's hard, no matter how long you've been in practice, to break that, break that bad news absolutely. You know we, I think we, as physicians, carry that with us that's something that, um, we forget and that's.

Dr. Shah-Haque:

I think that sometimes patients forget that too. Sometimes not all the time Right, but it's important to pause and honor. Hey, that was really difficult.

Dr. Wittry:

Yes, yeah, absolutely. It's like tending to ourselves, like physically, right, our physical needs, but also like acknowledging, intending to our own, like emotional, um needs, because we're humans and we're doing, yeah, difficult work right, and so if we just keep powering through and not like ever processing, I think that just accumulates in us Right, and it can have consequences that we don't really love to have they kind of come out, um. So I totally agree.

Dr. Shah-Haque:

They come out sideways. I mean it's either acknowledge, stop and acknowledge, or that frustration might be coming out toward family or staff or the self. I mean none of that's good either no, absolutely, absolutely.

Dr. Wittry:

But we're not really taught that.

Dr. Wittry:

We're not taught that in medical school or in residency or fellowship, you to like acknowledge your own emotions and respect them and do something with them and help yourself, like be kind to yourself, right, I think part of it is just talking about it, because I think most everyone is like feeling it, but when you look around and you're like seems like everyone else is like just kind of keep going or they're not really affecting them as much or something, right, you kind of think you imagine that you are the only one, which is hardly ever, if ever, true, um, but I think like there's like a vulnerability with um talking about it and how it's just challenging.

Dr. Wittry:

Like even I talked to my residents and fellows about it and I think sometimes they look at me like no one's ever really talked to me about that before, right, but I'm like it's so important just to recognize and it's like they feel this safe, like a, like an exhale. Almost some of them right, right, we're able to like process a little bit of like, like you see me as a human and not just like someone to evaluate. Do you know what I mean? Yes, I just think it's so important, like to kind of change the culture medicine. That's my idea. Right is to change the culture of medicine over time, like acknowledging the humanity and the people that, like the system is broken but we have it's full of individual human beings who are have their own needs and values and emotions and we got to recognize that and tend to it a hundred percent.

Dr. Shah-Haque:

A hundred percent because I will say that your medical students and residents are very lucky, blessed, to have you as an attending, because you see them as human beings, and in medical school I and in residency I was blessed enough to have great attendings in my internal medicine residency program that saw me as a human and I still keep in touch with them. That's awesome, yeah, but part of the reason why I chose that specialty was because of the interactions, that I wasn't just a number. Besides, I love the fact that the complexity and the investigating part of internal medicine but it was also the faculty that were just amazing.

Dr. Wittry:

Yeah, no, it's so true, like the experiences we have, I think. I don't think about all the time, but it definitely influences our decision. Specialty for sure.

Dr. Shah-Haque:

Yeah, and we forget how much of much of one interaction can have a lasting impact. You're right.

Dr. Wittry:

You're right.

Dr. Shah-Haque:

No, don't get me wrong, we're all going to have bad days, but it's like how do you recover from that? Are you going to have more good days, more bad days, and a lot of that kind of comes from. At least for me, it's been through the inner work my, you know, working on the self and I don't think it's been through the inner inner work my, you know, working on the self and um, yes, yeah, I don't think selfish. I think that's going back to as a simple question of what do you like to do outside of medicine? What do you like to do, uh, as a human being?

Dr. Wittry:

yeah, but that's always worthy time, you know it's worthy time spent like figuring that out, right, yeah.

Dr. Shah-Haque:

Yeah, what uh?

Dr. Wittry:

makes somebody worthy?

Dr. Wittry:

Ooh, this is a good question. Um, I think I believe I should say that humans are worthy because they exist, like, right, it's not maybe the common thing that we have been conditioned to believe in our society, which is, you know, essentially from a very young age, like you are sort of like you're kind of worthy, but you're more worthy if you do more and you achieve more and you, you know, produce more, you help more. I believe that that's what we take in and internalize and then kind of live out. But I think that the inner work, like you speak of it like teaches me, teaches us that, like our worthiness is just, is it's just a fact, right, it's not dependent on any of that.

Dr. Wittry:

Um, and so believing that that's work, right, it can be work to shift that underlying like core belief that we're worthy just because we are. But I think it is very healing if we are working on believing that, because I wouldn't say that it comes easily At least it did not for me and sometimes it still is like something I have to meditate on. Do you know what I mean? Like it's a different thing to hear it and kind of believe it versus embodying that belief and like knowing deep in your bones that that's true about you, or about you and about all the people that are around right.

Dr. Shah-Haque:

I mean there's a difference between working for what you have. But what you have physical or physical items or a bank account does not determine a person's work, and it's just something inherent. It's something we're born with. We're born with the worthiness of being loved, of being cherished, of being respected on a human level. There's just that basic understanding. I wish that were more mainstream.

Dr. Wittry:

I know I wish it was taught in our schools, emphasized in our workplaces and stuff like that. I think that would be so welcome in all sectors really.

Dr. Shah-Haque:

Yeah, and I'm not trying to get religious, but I was, um, I went to catholic school most of my uh formative years and even into college and um, just being created in a higher power's image that makes you worthy from the get-go right. So I appreciated that and I've held on to that in times of despair and in times of when life's not so fluffy and colorful, and I mean life is messy. We're human, dealing with other humans. Life is going to be messy and we're going to have, you know, points that are not as um. They're points of being sad, they're points of being why in the hell am I still doing this? And you know points where we're going to question our own worth. I think that's normal, totally totally is.

Dr. Wittry:

Yeah, it's like, yeah, knowing it, knowing a truth doesn't always mean that we believe the truth right in our day to day.

Dr. Wittry:

Or like things come up where you're like, at least I'm like I'm a good mom, and then the next day I'm like, but like something happened. And then something, some part of me is like I'm obviously not a good mom because this happened, right, but it's like that inner work of figuring out like that, that's not, that doesn't make the truth changing. It's just like you're processing through it and you're, yeah, seeking out you know, resources and support and like connections, when those truths are harder to access for you, right, in those seasons of like depression or despair, or just like feeling kind of uninspired or kind of like what's the point? Right, cause I think we all probably experienced those at some points in our lives, sometimes we think it's something that is wrong with us, you know, or like we need to change something external, or we need to like, if we can't, if we can't make it better, it's like something's wrong with us, right, but yeah, if we can't make it better, it's like something's wrong with us, right, but yeah, it's not the truth.

Dr. Shah-Haque:

Yeah, and one thing I would say is that I think we're as I think, many female physicians, at least for myself as an empath and I'm using that word empath right I I've made the mistake in the past of um, trying to make somebody else's decision mine or my responsibility, and um I that's where I think boundaries really come into to play. Is that, whoa, that's not mine to take on? I can still empathize with X, y and Z, but that does not mean I need to take that on. And that's where that stops Almost. Not necessarily a detached attachment or not necessarily complete detachment, but honoring it and saying, okay, this is my responsibility, this is not my responsibility, and I'm going to draw a boundary here, whether it's for emotions or thought processes, again, because I can't stay there, I can't dwell there.

Dr. Wittry:

Right, no, totally. That's like an art that's beautiful. That's an art to like be in a relationship and be, because you feel a lot of the energy right, and you feel a lot of their, you take on a lot of their stuff. And then you have a practice or I don't know a way that you're also recognizing and knowing, like, where the boundary is between you and that other person, right, without detaching, without like being feeling cold hearted or like not present, but you're also like what is mine, being really clear about like what is mine, what is not mine, and then there can still be like connection, empathy, love, all that stuff that exists between you and that other person. But I think that's really hard. So I applaud you for doing that, because it's really hard.

Dr. Shah-Haque:

It's really hard, but it's also it's been a practice that I've developed and honed over the last several years right, it's not something that, just like you were mentioning mindfulness or the meditation, and it's not to say this is going to fix the system. No, the system. In the states, the health care system sucks yeah but you know we uh, either you leave it or you learn how to navigate within it and still advocate for change. Totally, totally so and those are skills, sorry, those are skills that you've you've honed, yeah, no, absolutely Absolutely.

Dr. Wittry:

I was going to say that about, like, the healthcare system stuff. Like I had a coach or someone I worked with once. That was I was really like making, trying to make a decision of like whether I should leave healthcare, right, um, just because I was so frustrated with so many things and it was like I didn't have, like, I didn't feel like I had a lot of agency or power in some areas that I just like really inflicted with my values, right, um, and I think I don't remember the exact whole process, but I remember coming to like. An insight that they gave me was essentially like, like, um, if how does it say?

Dr. Wittry:

Like I always have a choice, right, and so by being in healthcare, staying employed, I am part-time, which helps a lot, but by doing that, I, um, I'm making a choice, even though X, y and Z is not changing, like I'm making a choice to continue to be part of it and in that way it's like it's empowering in some ways, because it's like I'm choosing this hard because of these things that slightly outweigh the negative right, and like the ways I can bring my whole self and my little micro areas of like where I have influence, like that matters enough to me at this point, right, and so it's like, yeah, when you define it as like a choice and I'm like I want to say participating in the system, but you're choosing to still be there even though all these things are frustrating with you's, I think it does bring you that a little bit more sense of like peace about it.

Dr. Wittry:

You know, like I have a choice and I'm doing it because these things still matter to me and I it's tolerable for me to do this because of these things that are kind of the deeper wise. I don't know if that makes sense, it was just rambling makes 100 makes 100% sense for me.

Dr. Shah-Haque:

Yes, no, I also work part-time and the thing is that I can keep my foot in the insane health care system, still interact with the patients and the internal medicine that I absolutely love. I can still medical students and pre-meds, because that fills my cup Again going back and trying to slowly change that culture of medicine. Every person that we get to interact with is a chance to make the future better.

Dr. Wittry:

Right, yeah, it's like the small ripple effects that then ripple effects again. You know yes, because we we're also patients as well and at some point in time I'm going to be training my replacement right and I want to have, I want to have a positive effect yes, yeah, for, like aging parents, right, it's like that's closer to home or it feels definitely more like you want them to have a great medical team and fulfilled physicians right, all that still care and they're not completely burned out.

Dr. Shah-Haque:

For sure, yeah, because we know that the listening rate, the uh, the decision rate I mean the ability to make effective decisions decreases because of the lack of engagement between physician and patient physician team. It's a complete ripple effect. Yeah, absolutely. Now what would you? What advice would you give from any of the to any of the listeners that are maybe, you know, struggling to find their inspiration or are grieving, just because, I mean, medicine is in so much of a?

Dr. Wittry:

disarray. Find ways, like, however small, to prioritize yourself and build from there, starting super, super small, right With little ways, to say yes to yourself and fill up your cup, even in a very small way. Like don't deprive yourself of that two minute walk outside, you'd get the sun on your face. Don't deprive yourself of, like, a fancy latte because you feel like you don't really need it and it's not necessary right in the middle of your day. Like those are, I think, that ways it can kind of start, where you kind of pay attention to yourself and your desires. We're very conditioned not to do that or to like push them away or not even like recognize them. Um, but if you're in a place where you're feeling like super beaten down, like it probably is not very realistic to you to like make radical changes or just blow up things and start over, like that doesn't even feel like remotely logical. And so I really think it's like the tiny, tiniest ways that feel like something that you want, and it's like just checking in, right, be like what do I really want to do right now? And then, even if 1% of the time, you say yes to yourself and do it like I think that's where it grows.

Dr. Wittry:

And then I would say, just like you don't know where to start and you're not like connected to things that you feel like are inspiring in your life, you know, be, access as much curiosity as you can and follow that curiosity, cause I think where we have where our curiosity lies, like that's where, when we follow that curiosity because I think where we have where our curiosity lies, like that's where, when we follow that, we pay attention to that that's, I think, what leads us to like the things, the people, the places, like the practices that are inspiring to us, right, um, and just paying attention and being like that's interesting, interesting, wonder what that's like, or wonder why I'm like drawn to that and instead of like shutting that down, like just take a little turn and see what's there, just be, just be a little tiny bit curious and open that door.

Dr. Wittry:

And I think that the more you do that, the more it like legitimately tells your, lets your body, lets your mind, lets yourself know like it's okay, it's safe, right, it's safe to try, it's safe to explore in tiny, tiny ways of like the things that you're passionate about that light you up, um, and with that practice, over time, like you will start to discover things that make you go in, like the things that really give back to you, right, um, so it's not, you don't have to know like I'm. If you have like I don't know, I haven't done anything like that for myself for a long time like that's okay, right?

Dr. Shah-Haque:

you can still just like start very small, be curious and just like see where it leads you no, thank you for that, thank you for that 100, and you know I would, um, I would really add also to that amazing answer to write down. I'm not, I'm not one to necessarily journal, but to draw it out, walk it out, talk it out, um, I'm more of a list maker. List why you're grieving, list where your points of frustration, I mean honor that, get it out, get it out in the open for sure, and then expand on why do you feel that way? And if you're, and if you are more of I want to fill my cup. How do I do that? All the curiosities I mean, I would have to say I have.

Dr. Shah-Haque:

I appreciate my son who's six. He is so into primates, of all things, primates, so he, he loves, he loves them. I don't the uh, his curiosity about them, his passion about them just makes me stop and remember. It's really important to have those points of interest, those points that make you just light up and you keep going down that rabbit hole to find what next. And I just started with something as simple as a picture of a man drill from one of my daughter's field trips. Yeah, so it can be. So that's going back to. It's a. That's a anecdotal story of explore that interest. Keep going down that rabbit hole, cause it might lead to a whole new, whole new world that you don't know, that you never knew, that you would be drawn to.

Dr. Wittry:

Totally, totally. That's really cool. I love that the kids can do that for us too and like the things that they like. You're like okay, that's awesome. Like embrace it, you know.

Dr. Shah-Haque:

I mean. I also think that we can learn from the smallest people. The complexities of life are real, but it's an art to learn how to pause and just take all the amazingness in Totally.

Dr. Wittry:

Totally being present where we are and like noticing the beauty, right, noticing like the fall leaves. Yeah, my, I have a two and a half year old is my youngest and she's like totally obsessed with the leaves right now.

Dr. Wittry:

But I like them and I like the fall leaves and I like notice them once in a while, but like it's like every time we're outside and she's like mama, look, these ones are blue or not not blue. These ones are red and green and a little bit pink, like it's just like every tree, like she notices day to day, like the changes, and it's like makes me stop and look and be like it is really beautiful, like wow, right and um, yeah, the simple, simple things that they can teach us and slow us down. Be present is like pretty cool, yeah.

Dr. Shah-Haque:

So, if the listener wanted, if the listeners wanted to reach out to you and learn more about your work, what is the best way to do so?

Dr. Wittry:

Um, you can check me out on LinkedIn, uh, or you can go to my website, Um, it's, uh. I have a podcast too, I should say. It's called vibrant humans, Um, and it's on Spotify and Apple. So if you want to listen to me chat about things personal development related, um, you can find me on that podcast or, and I also can probably find a link to my website there.

Dr. Shah-Haque:

These links will be in the show notes. Awesome. What is one last pearl of wisdom you'd like to leave the listeners?

Dr. Wittry:

Hmm, hmm, maybe, maybe using use your emotions as cues, as like indicator lights of what you might need and what might even like the next step for you be like you were talking about the listing things that you don't like or that aren't going well, that you're dissatisfied just done with, maybe, um, and kind of tapping into like, what are the emotions under those? Um, it can be positive, negative, neutral, neutral, you know, but really I think emotional world is an understanding. Our emotions can be like a true superpower, because it cues us into so much of what we need, what we desire, um, and so paying attention to them as, and looking at them as clues for yourself, I think is the wise thing to be curious about and discover for yourself yes, and even though it might be uncomfortable, it is definitely worth the time and effort because you're going to learn more about yourself.

Dr. Shah-Haque:

Going back to where we were, what we were discussing in the first part of the podcast, you're going to learn more about yourself and that can trigger more curiosity or maybe an area like a blind spot, and it's all about still growing, not just as a physician, but as a person, as a parent, and it's non about still growing, not just as a physician, but as a person, as a parent, and it's nonstop. And sometimes you just have to figure out okay, where am I missing my growth? What needs more attention today, this week, this month? And that's going to change in time, and that's that is okay, that is. A lot of these things are so fluid, they're not linear.

Dr. Wittry:

Totally, totally.

Dr. Wittry:

And it's okay to get support in them, like I think I tried to do DIY it for myself for a long time, right, um, but you miss your. You miss a lot of your own blind spots when you're trying to do that. And so, like if you're noticing some emotions or some things or some thoughts and you're like, oh, I don't really know what to do about that, you know, it's like having that supportive person or community can be like, I don't know, expediting in your growth, I think, because they offer that outsider's view and perspective and, in a compassionate way, can like help you see the things that are hard to see on your own, that help you right, and 100% and that can be a mentor, a sponsor, a coach, a therapist, even your own PPP.

Dr. Shah-Haque:

I mean, don't forsake yourself and those lifelines that we let patients know that are present. Remember that they're present for us as well. Totally, yeah, well, thank you, I've really enjoyed this conversation.

Dr. Wittry:

Thank you, Sabna. Yeah, it was so fun to talk with you too. Thank you.

Dr. Shah-Haque:

Thanks for tuning in to another episode from the Worthy Physician Podcast. If you enjoyed this episode, be sure to subscribe, leave a review and share it with someone who'd love it too. Don't forget to follow us on YouTube, linkedin, instagram for more updates and insights. Until next time, keep inspiring, learning, growing and living your best life.