The Worthy Physician

Why You Don't Need to Choose Between Being a Doctor and Being Human

• Dr. Sapna Shah-Haque MD

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What happens when physicians reclaim their humanity after years of medical training that teaches them to ignore their basic needs? Dr. Manju Dawkins joins us to share her fascinating journey from traditional dermatology practice to healthcare entrepreneurship, revealing how creativity and medicine can powerfully intersect.

Remember when you were taught that holding your bladder for 12 hours was a badge of honor in medical training? Our conversation dives into how physicians are conditioned to disconnect from their bodies and operate in perpetual "fight or flight" mode. We explore the damaging consequences of this culture—and more importantly, how to break free from it.

Dr. Dawkins takes us through her entrepreneurial awakening, sparked by watching her infant daughter receive painful vaccinations. This moment of parental anguish led her to create Thimble Health, a company developing innovative solutions for needle pain. Her story illuminates how physicians can leverage their unique perspectives to solve healthcare problems beyond the exam room.

The dialogue challenges the notion that physicians must limit themselves to direct patient care. "The system wants us to just put our heads down, have the blinders on and see patients," Dr. Dawkins notes, "but we shouldn't let the degree limit us—we should let it expand our opportunity." This perspective encourages doctors to explore varied expressions of their talents in entrepreneurship, policy, media, and creative pursuits.

Perhaps most thought-provoking is our discussion about purpose and guilt. We unpack how guilt serves no productive function, while authenticity and joy lead to our best work. Dr. Dawkins suggests that purpose need not be narrowly defined as helping others through direct medical care—even simple acts of creation fulfill our human purpose and bring unexpected joy to others.

Whether you're questioning your career path or seeking to reconnect with what initially drew you to medicine, this conversation offers fresh perspectives on finding fulfillment while making meaningful contributions to healthcare. Subscribe now and join the movement to redefine what it means to be a worthy physician in today's world.


What you'll learn:

• Medical training conditions physicians to ignore basic human needs and disconnects us from our bodies
• Everything is not "on fire"—we need to break the cycle of

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Though I am a physician, this is not medical advice. This is only a tool that physicians can use to get ideas on how to deal with burnout and/or know they are not alone. If you are in need of medical assistance talk to your physician.


Learn more about female physicians' journey through burnout to thriving!
https://www.theworthyphysician.com/books

Let's connect for speaking opportunities!
https://www.theworthyphysician.com/dr-shahhaque-md-as-a-speaker

Check out the free resources from The Worthy Physician:
https://www.theworthyphysician.com/freebie-downloads

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Speaker 1:

Welcome to another episode of the Worthy Physician. I'm your host, Dr Sapna Shah-Hawk, reigniting your humanity and passion for medicine. With each episode, we bring you inspiring stories, actionable insight and expert advice. Get ready for another engaging conversation that could change the way you think and live as a physician. Your income is your greatest asset, Protected with Pattern Life. The easy, stress-free way to find the right disability insurance, With unbiased comparisons and no jargon. Pattern helps you to choose the best policy for your needs. Secure your future today at Pattern Life. The link is in the show notes. Let's dive in. Welcome to another episode of the Worthy Physician. I'm your host, Dr Sapna Shah-Hawk, reigniting your humanity and passion for medicine. And today I'm going to get into what I'm excited about having this conversation with Dr Manju Dawkins abouta nontraditional approach to medicine and creativity, and what that means to bring those two to the table. So, Manju, thank you so much for joining me today.

Speaker 2:

Thank you for having me. This is going to be fun.

Speaker 1:

It is going to be fun, isn't it? I really enjoyed our pre-recording discussion. It's nice getting to know another human being that happens to be a physician. On a human level, sometimes we forget that we're humans, don't we? Yeah, I think we do. Where do you think that happens along the training?

Speaker 2:

process? That's a great question, I think. I mean it's definitely like meet into during medical school what you don't deserve to pee, you don't deserve to eat, you must retract, yeah. And then we're young and impressionable at that time and we think that's normal and not probably normal, but we think that's valiant and good and I think we think that really like starts to then puff up our egos to think, well, look at me, I don't have to pee for 12 hours and I don't have to eat and I look at me. But it's all silliness when you really go back and think about it at all.

Speaker 1:

Because we're humans. Oh yeah, at some point in our training I do think you're right With medical school, we learn to acquiesce to the calls of nature and the calls of our body. It's almost like we've become very disconnected and rewarded in some archaic way. We're not paying attention to our own bodies. For those of you who are nephrologists, urologists listening, I'm sure you're not going to be thrilled with that. Haven't peed for 12 hours? Okay, what's the? How dehydrated are you? What's your skin telling you? What are your kidneys telling you?

Speaker 2:

But all joking aside, reflecting on that, it's really scary and sad it really is, and I think, like it really harms you Well, not only in the long run, but in the short term, obviously, because you know your kidneys. But yeah, I think when you're doing that, when you're sacrificing your body for someone else or something else, you're sacrificing yourself and your soul and that never ends well. So I think a lot of us are waking up to the fact that, like, why did I neglect myself in this process, or and or? Why am I still doing it to myself? Because I think it's a really hard habit to break, because you know where. I always say it's like these train tracks and you're on them for so long and you have blinders on, you can't see outside of it, and then you're so far along at a certain point you're like, oh my God, I'm stuck here and you're never stuck. It's not true.

Speaker 1:

So I have two questions for you. What do you mean by If I have it didn't stick out the way it does just now?

Speaker 2:

I think we all have something inside of us I mean that I will call the soul, whatever it is and it's what we want and what we choose and what we prefer.

Speaker 2:

And I think a lot of the times that the way we live is like we are living for other people, like we start out trying to please our parents and then we try to please our coaches and professors and bosses, but you're never listening to yourself. But I think it's really important because I think it's the way to happiness and the way to satisfaction and joy and all of those things. So I think it's really hard for everyone, not just doctors, but like we're all like searching for this happiness and joy and wondering why we can't attain it. But we're still again trying to make everyone happy around us and we glorify self-sacrifice but we can't sacrifice the self. It reminds me of the whole idea of you cannot take care of other people until you've taken care of yourself the oxygen mask thing and until we all try it out, which is hard in the culture like to take care of ourselves first and then you can see how much better you can take care of others.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, it's important. Thank you for highlighting that. And, yeah, if you can't look and see what your own purpose is because we know that purpose is part of the happiness equation, if you will, in addition to, I don't think happiness is something to chase. I think it's a daily choice, regardless of what's happening around us, and realizing that we do have the power to change our reality based on the choices we make. Sometimes it might be difficult to do that, but and to showcase that, like we were discussing how not everything's on fire not everything's on fire proverbially, because we did have great fires in the Los Angeles area, but everything that was literally on fire, not everything in our path is literally on fire. Not everything's an emergency. When do you think that we learned or we lost the ability as physicians or in training? It might just be on a personal level when did we lose the ability to kind of be present in the moment and take time to smell the flowers or enjoy the aroma and actual taste of coffee, instead of just pounding it down and walking us?

Speaker 2:

Yeah, that is a great question and I think it is societal.

Speaker 2:

It's definitely been there for my lifetime, so I don't know when it started, but that's such a good point and I think it's so important for us physicians to talk about it, because that whole idea that everyone feels like everything's an emergency all the time oh my God, I got to pick up my kids, I'm going to be labor grab, my patients are waiting for me, everything is always like a panic and an emergency, and for us human beings to live like that all the time is not good for our bodies, because what's happening with our cords, all those things right, we're always in fight or flight, like all of us human beings right now, and it's not healthy.

Speaker 2:

And then we wonder why we have all of these chronic diseases. There's pretty good reason for it and I think a lot of people are waking up to the fact that wait a minute, what am I doing? I feel terrible and I want to change that. And then coming back to sitting down and enjoying your coffee and going to smell a flower and like feeling that joy in that simple moment, rather than seeking some kind of external validation or external goal or something to give us that like it is, that sitting down and look, I found this seashell on the beach and like how miraculous that, like that, there's a rainbow in the seashell. This is incredible, that is joy and we got to get back here.

Speaker 1:

How did you make your way back there? Are you still trying to figure that out?

Speaker 2:

Yeah, I think that's the human condition is to always be right now.

Speaker 2:

But I think like there are these moments and I see it more and more and ironically, yeah, like it came through the this like nontraditional path of entrepreneurship, because it's it should be totally frank it's like another set of train tracks entrepreneurship because everything is always on fire there too, at least that's the way the world makes you feel, but it.

Speaker 2:

But then you, I made that choice, like I'm the one who chose to do that, and so I get to choose how I'm going to live that and in the process, I've been lucky to be able to do these accelerators and things. And what's amazing is there's a lot of focus on the individual, the taking care of yourself, which is like so refreshing compared to coming from medicine, and so it's the same and say things like you got to take breaks and you got to have retreats and look inside yourself, like these, just like really simple, basic things that, like in medicine, no one ever said that. And then you realize, oh, wow, I am so much more effective when I go for a walk in the morning and think about nothing and then come back to work, like it's actually making me more productive. That shouldn't be the goal? I don't think, but it's the truth, so I'm trying.

Speaker 1:

I think there's a lot of wisdom in that, isn't there? You're carving out time for yourself. You're connecting with outside. If you're going walking outside and you're allowing for that not being in fight or flight, which has a lot of we know that when you're in fight or flight, you can actually think and that's where creativity comes in. And that would totally make sense. How and why would make you more effective or productive? Absolutely.

Speaker 2:

Actually, when you say that, it's reminding me. Something I read was talking about what we need to live like to survive on planet Earth. And, of course, like air, we have to breathe water, and everyone thinks the third one is food, but it's actually sleep, Like we will die if we don't sleep. And that's so important because in medicine and in training and like lots of attendings don't sleep with any regularity but but that's going to kill us, right. And then one of the other things that I don't remember all of them, but one of the other things was something like creativity or purpose, and we don't really think of that as being necessary for survival, but in a lot of ways it is. I think, when any of us are in any kind of position in jobs and stuff, and we lose the ability to be creative and have joy in whatever we're doing and put ourself into it, right, when it becomes we have to fit someone else's mold to do that job, it really drains you and you can't, you just can't keep going and that's burnout. So it's interesting.

Speaker 1:

Now you started out. You're a dermatologist, correct. Now you're an entrepreneur. And how did you make that?

Speaker 2:

shift. Yeah, it's silly for me to be talking about it, because dermatology is really amazing and I'm very blessed to be a dermatologist and I love it and I still do practice on a limited basis. But what happened? Was it started when I was a dermatology resident, I had my first daughter, which was its own challenge, which everyone, I'm sure, knows about too. But, yeah, when I took her in for her first vaccines when she was about a month old, I thought I knew what I was doing on the doctor front anyway, and then when she got stuck by the pediatrician, she just looked at me with just like bewilderment, betrayal, like how could you let that happen? And I was like I don't know what have I done? This is crazy. It was 2010 and this is how we're doing things. This is insane.

Speaker 2:

And so, yeah, I just had felt like a total failure. And then, yeah, which is difficult to use and has some side effects and things like that, but that was what my training was about Like how do I mitigate all that? So it worked, but it worked miraculously for me. I was like, oh man, everybody needs to be doing this. And it took many years later that I was talking to a friend and I was like you know what you need to do, and I said this whole idea.

Speaker 2:

For Thimble, which is my company, that's all about alleviating the pain and fear of needles and just realizing like how big of a problem it's not just me, this is like everybody. Nobody likes needles and this is a really problem that prevents people from engaging in health care. We got to do something about it and I just felt like you know, it's at every point. It's just like why am I doing this Even now? What am I doing? This is insane. Like I have a very nice regular job, pays me nicely and all of that, but it just feels like there's this problem that really needs solving. And if not me, then who? Like I got to try and I got to do it and it's, and a part of it is just seeing just the transformation in health care over the past 20 years.

Speaker 2:

It's, it's sad, it's. It makes me so sad to see, like the completely fractured relationship between patients and health care workers and how we're pitted against each other and how we have no time with each other and that's all. To me it feels very intentional because there is a third party puppet, you know, controlling the play over here, but we have to choose that. We have to choose to remember that we are human beings who are on the same team, who are actually trying to help each other, and so, for me, a part of this is like just giving people an opportunity to say, hey, I know, this is hard, I understand and I want this to be better for you, on both sides. Right, of course, like we want the patient to feel better, but on the other side too, like patients are understanding. Also, man, you are seeing way too many patients in one day, or are you OK? So it's like that understanding is starting to build and, anyways, I hope to be a part of that.

Speaker 1:

Thank, you for highlighting that. And no, all joking aside, I think dermatology does not get enough respect, because I can't do much with skin as an internist. It's not a lot of training or we don't have a lot of tools in our wheelhouse, but the amount of patients that you have to see and the procedures even though it's well compensated, it is also a different level of risk and I think that should be respected. And you also have to have mad skills and precision. Don't discount that, please.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, no, but that's the thing we all like. Every specialty and that's another thing that entrepreneurship has opened my eyes to is man. Everyone has an expertise in whatever it is that they're doing a lot of, and like we need to respect that at every turn. We can't make assumptions about what the other people are doing, and I think I don't know if you agree, but I feel like man in medicine we are the worst at that Like we pit specialties against each other, we tear each other down and it's crazy Like we're all again on the same team. We just need to respect each other, that's it.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, it goes back to one of the topics we were having we're discussing before the recording about giving each other more grace yeah as human beings, as colleagues, as co-inhabitants of this of earth. I don't know when grace was forfeited a lot, but I think it might go back to a lot of the everything's on fire. Everything has to be fast and efficient, and so I think it comes with a lot of the modern day culture it's which is sad.

Speaker 2:

It's so sad and actually I, like you, were asking like when did it start? I'm not sure, but I did read this fascinating book called Do Nothing by Celeste Headley, which is amazing, highly recommend because she goes into the history of this kind of overworked culture and I don't want to say the details exactly, but something around the Industrial Revolution, when kind of productivity and maximizing everything became everything, the culture started to shift too and the way religion was used, specifically Christianity and Catholic. So I can understand this part, like the way guilt is utilized to motivate and also this idea of working hard being virtuous. I thought that was just the truth. Like hard work equals you're a good person.

Speaker 2:

But that book really illuminated the idea that like no, that's actually a pretty new idea and that book really opened my eyes to again every person has value. Even that person that sits on the couch all day has a ton of value because we don't know what they're doing for someone else emotionally or something that we can't even see. Like, we have no idea, so we can't judge and we also have to give ourselves grace and we get to sit on the couch when we want to and that's OK and that doesn't make us a bad person. It makes us human, because we need to rest too. And also it just makes you realize when externally, at work, or your investors or advisors are like, you get to be your own person and decide wait a minute, here's what I need right now. I'm going to take this time, take this space period.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, to get there might take some work because, going back to the beginning of our conversation, we were trained to start to ignore those signs and signals, to keep persevering and be productive, and now to undo that is going to take time. Not to not be productive but to have that balance of OK, I'm listening to my body, I need to rest, I need to sleep, I need to make sure I'm feeling my body efficiently meeting my spiritual, physical, emotional, psychological needs. And thank you for showcasing that about guilt, because that's Catholic guilt has a bad reputation, but I think it's a lot of cultural and not so much Catholic guilt, because being is not going to guilt us into that higher being gives us a lot of grace, exactly that.

Speaker 2:

And it makes you realize, oh, guilt has nothing to do with any religion or spiritual anything. It makes you realize like guilt is completely functionless, actually Like for you to have guilt about something. Nothing good productivity, wise comes from a place of guilt. But if you're doing something out of excitement, out of joy, wow, the result's going to be amazing. And I don't know I'm not joking. I literally only realized that, probably four months ago, because I think we're all so used to functioning on guilt that we think there's no other way. But yeah, it's a useless emotion and, like you said, any higher power would never want guilt to be the driver.

Speaker 1:

So we know that's not where it's coming from. Yeah, this is interesting because I just listened to a lecture by Father Mike, with Essential Presents, on guilt and it's like Catholic guilt is actually a farce because for all the reasons why you just said, and then just finish the book Living in God's Grace by Max Lucado, who's a pastor, but it was very changing on the way I see race, because we don't know what's in each other's hearts, we don't know what's motivating the other person, so we really need to approach with grace and try to exude that from the higher power, which is love, which is patience, which is kindness, is forgiving anything, going back to purpose, living, living within that, embracing those type of things. And again, it takes time. It took me at least three years to understand some of these concepts and I'm in my I'm 42 and now they're just starting to click. I'm like what the heck was I thinking? But it's again giving myself grace. Okay, I'm human, I've learned. And now, how do I, now that I know better, how do I continue to do better?

Speaker 2:

Yes, the learning never stopped Same. I'm in my forties too and I'm like what, yeah, what was it? Where was I%? Because we shut them off. We have to because we've got to keep the brain like doing all the things that the world needs us to or wants us to anyway.

Speaker 1:

So how do you balance the expectations of a dermatologist with being an entrepreneur, and then all the other hats that you wear in life?

Speaker 2:

Yeah, I don't know, but I'm not sure. But one thing that it's all part of this is that there's a lot of judgment around doctors who do anything else but see patients, and I say this all the time. But the system wants us to just put our heads down, have the blinders on and see the patients, because that's going to make a whole lot of other people, a whole lot of money, and that's nice and everything that but. But but that's crazy. That's crazy. We shouldn't let the degree limit us. We should let that degree expand our opportunity. So I think it's really important and I love seeing what's happening.

Speaker 2:

There's so many doctors that are now going into government and media and entrepreneurship and all these other things. Podcasting right, like to have a voice in other spaces, is so important and we bring our own expertise and whatever it is, and even just in our own understanding of human beings, because we talk to a lot of human beings and that's valuable. I think it's so important. And so it goes back to giving myself grace because, oh, I have this amazing specialty. I love it.

Speaker 2:

Is it right for me to try? This other thing Was definitely, and it's still there, frankly, but I have to look inside myself and figure out, yeah, what is my purpose for right now? And it might change, right, like I might come back to practice full time, I might. I don't know what's going to happen, but right now this is, I think, where I'm supposed to be. And then, speaking of guilt, then there's also the kind of mom guilt which is always there and it ebbs and flows and people will tell you like, oh no, I'm sure they're proud of you and they're when you're setting a good example. Is any of that true? Who knows? They probably will be, maybe are, but it's always fluctuating. And I think I always have to ask myself, like, is this the right thing for right now? And for right now it is, and we'll see. You know how it all lands, but all we can do is do our best in this moment. And so it really does go back to just giving myself grace at every hard turn.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, thank you for highlighting that there's. It's the right thing. So you establish that you're evaluating and reevaluating, not because you're not happy, but because you understand that life changes, purpose changes.

Speaker 2:

Which worked for us, don't you think? Oh, yeah, it's cheating. Because I didn't understand that either. I was just like oh, my purpose is to help patients through being a doctor, period, the end, that's it. But who said that was true?

Speaker 1:

Yeah, Somebody that wrote the script but is not in the room helping you manage your life. So you've used your expertise as a dermatologist to help alleviate pain with shots, immunizations and even blood draws Correct. So that's hellaciously ingenious, because that's a problem. Everybody has Right, no matter what specialty, no matter what part of the world you're in. A lot of we know that the fear of needles is a big, not the only barrier, but is a big barrier. And you're talking to somebody that I'm terrified of needle. Okay. So like I, would be your ideal client or patient. So if you're using your expertise, you're using your physician mind let's put physician aside You're using your mind, You're using science to help alleviate a problem. You're you have a solution. Why the hell not?

Speaker 2:

Yeah, I think so, and at different points I was like, oh, I think I can help more people by doing this and I hope that's exactly what happens, like we'll see, we'll see. And I don't mean to say it because the reason I'm pausing on it is because this whole idea of helping people that doesn't have that's I that does drive me, like I that that drives me, but I just am a little bit hesitant about making it seem like that's the only thing that purpose can be, because purpose can be lots of things, because we can help people through so many different means, just like creating art is helping humanity, period, and with no intention of helping other people, but just the act of creation is so important. So, anyways, I just wanted to caveat that. But problem solving maybe, yeah, yeah, maybe, but I really I don't know. I've just been thinking about just the act of creation is so important. So, anyways, I just wanted to caveat that.

Speaker 2:

Problem solving maybe, yeah, yeah, maybe, but I really I don't know. I've just been thinking about this. It's like people who just make a sandcastle on the beach and just put their whole heart into it, and they probably just did it because they wanted to and not for anyone else to see it, because they know it's going to be washed away by the sand. But I don't know. Just that act of creation itself is powerful. And then it just happened, actually, and I just walked by the sandcastle the other day and I was like how beautiful is that? And that just made my day. That person had no intention of doing necessarily, but it was important and it was valuable and that person fulfilled purpose in that moment. And they had no idea they did it, maybe, I don't know. So it's a little off tangent. It was just something I was thinking about in the past week that we don't, we don't have to glorify purpose to be this one thing. That can be so many things.

Speaker 1:

No, I appreciate that, and it's not so much the idea of helping. And then, in the same sentence, I will say just because it's something to help somebody or improve something or solve a problem does not mean it needs to be free.

Speaker 2:

That's a great point and a lesson that physicians need to learn how far.

Speaker 1:

Were you into entrepreneurship when you felt comfortable saying this is the price, because I have to keep doors open, I have to keep R&D going? How did you make that switch from don't ask for money versus it's okay?

Speaker 2:

Yeah, no, it's such a good question and something that's been very difficult for me, because we're used to just giving and giving and yeah, I mean this is all still a challenge for me, because sometimes people say, the way I talk about the business, oh, it's like you're running a nonprofit, it's like a nonprofit. And no, this is a product and it is. It is not a nonprofit. But just because you have an intention of impact doesn't mean it's a nonprofit. But I also think that in the culture that we live in now, for profit is the thing that speaks to power, and so that's why I wanted this to be a for-profit business, and I would like to show that you can have intention, you can try to do something that you think is good in the world and it can make a profit for people. It can help people financially too, and that doesn't have to be our only goal, because for me personally, I do feel a sense of frustration around the fact that everything is centered around are we making money? Are we making people more money over here? And it's not. Are we making everyone more money? It's. Are we making the people with a lot of money more money, period, and that's the only thing that matters, and I think that our society is ready for a change, because that's all well and good, but until it's not and I think we're at the point where it's not it's not and you can, I think you can build companies that will continue to make money, but that will serve what I believe is a greater purpose TBD, we shall see.

Speaker 2:

But then, beyond that, yeah, I mean, there's this recurrent theme of martyrdom that comes up for me. Oh, I felt, oh, I need to do this and I can't take a, I can't take a salary, I can't. And it was hard for me to raise money because I was like I don't want to ask people for money. But I had people had to explain to me like you're not asking, this is not a charity, you have a great business and you are giving them the opportunity to invest in something that's going to be awesome. And then I was like it's like you said, it takes time and it takes work to really feel that in your body and to know that in your heart and your mind and all those things. Yeah, but it's true. And so then, when you know it's true, then it becomes easier, and so that's where we are.

Speaker 1:

So time practice and acceptance, probably and yeah, I'm a capitalist, but I also like to make sure that it's ethical.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, that's a great way. I'm sure these things have already been named and things like that. But yeah there's, capitalism is a wonderful, beautiful thing, and how do we do it so that it actually is beneficial to everyone and not harmful? I guess actually this goes back to being a doctor and what we all, I think, agree with Do no harm. That's it Like. Capitalism is awesome, but we must always have that kind of mantra in mind Do no harm, we cannot. Yeah.

Speaker 1:

I really appreciate it. I really enjoyed this conversation too. How can they learn more about you, reach out to you and learn more about Thimble?

Speaker 2:

So we are available on our website, thimblehealthcom, and we are also on social media, on Instagram, Facebook, TikTok at thimblehealth and please reach out on LinkedIn. I love to hear and learn because, man, every conversation I learn something new, like a new application for all of this or like a new way of thinking about it. So, yeah, we'd love to hear from you on LinkedIn. I think that's those are the ways I appreciate those and those will be in the show note.

Speaker 1:

What is one last pearl of wisdom you would like to leave our listeners?

Speaker 2:

Be yourself. What I mean by that is going back to the beginning of the conversation, like a lot of growing up and becoming an adult is learning to fit the mold of society. But then I think this time in our lives is to then come back to who we actually are and to be comfortable with that and to realize that when you're actually who you are like, so much beauty arises from that. It's scary, it's scary but, but I think worth it and I think is part of what leads to the joy and happiness that we're all searching for.

Speaker 1:

That's beautifully said, I watch my young kids and just I'm in awe of how authentic and unfiltered they are. And once we learn how to get back to that more so, I think we start to find our true selves, our true purpose and true happiness, regardless of what's happening around us, because we have control over our internal thoughts, words and actions Exactly and when we have control over those internal things, our external world changes Absolutely and, my goodness, it can take many lifetimes to master all of that.

Speaker 1:

But I think we have to do the best we can with what we've got in the situation we're in, and give ourselves grace that, no, it may not be perfect, but being human is so messy and it can be so much fun, true, manju? Thank you so much. I've thoroughly enjoyed this conversation and listeners. If any of this part has spoken to you, okay, so what? Edit that out. So to the listeners, I hope this has struck as much happiness in you as it has in me just having this conversation, because I think truly, these are the conversations that bring out the best in us as human beings. So subscribe and me just having this conversation, because I think truly, these are the conversations that bring out the best in us as human beings. So subscribe and share with a friend.

Speaker 1:

Thanks for tuning in to another episode from the Worthy Physician Podcast. If you enjoyed this episode, be sure to subscribe, leave a review and share it with someone who'd love it too. Don't forget to follow us on YouTube, linkedin, instagram for more updates and insights. Until next time, keep inspiring, learning, growing and living your best life.