The Worthy Physician

Letting Go Of Titles To Find Your True Values

• Dr. Sapna Shah-Haque MD

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We explore how chasing titles and external approval can erode health, relationships, and self-worth, and how to realign work with core values. Jillian shares a candid story of leaving surgery, surviving an eating disorder, and rebuilding a life by borrowing hope, setting boundaries, and reclaiming identity.

• arrival fallacy and the myth of enough
• moral injury in medicine and corporatization
• identifying core values through friction and ease
• grief, regret, and the cost of sleep deprivation
• sensitivity as strength when paired with boundaries
• comparison traps and self-compassion practices
• therapy, EMDR, somatic tools, and spiritual grounding
• agency versus learned helplessness in career pivots
• practical steps to reset, rest, and redesign roles
• redefining success as connection, presence, and joy

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Though I am a physician, this is not medical advice. This is only a tool that physicians can use to get ideas on how to deal with burnout and/or know they are not alone. If you are in need of medical assistance talk to your physician.


Learn more about female physicians' journey through burnout to thriving!
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SPEAKER_01:

Welcome to another episode of The Worthy Physician. I'm your host, Dr. Sapna Shaw Hawk, reigniting your humanity and passion for medicine. With each episode, we bring you inspiring stories, actionable insight, and expert advice. Get ready for another engaging conversation that could change the way you think and live. Today I have Gillian Riggert. And Gillian, I've been really excited to talk to you. I know we've talked before and even before the recording. I think that you have a lot of powerful points and a very powerful story to share today. So thank you.

SPEAKER_00:

Well, I am honored to be on your podcast, and I'm thrilled that you also sat in the hot seat on my YouTube channel and shared your wisdom and insight and your glorious self with my world. And can't wait to share that as well. Thank you.

SPEAKER_01:

And the link will be in the show notes to that interview where we swapped positions. Yeah, it was awesome. It it was. It was. And to me, what is the what the awesome part is that we have two people coming together to have, I think, a conversation. This is another conversation that we're having that I don't think we talk enough about.

SPEAKER_00:

I think a lot of us go when you were saying core values, how often do people sit back and really assess where they got their goals and their mission? And especially a lot of the high achievers, we just check off all the boxes and keep going, put our head down. And we briefly were talking about the arrival fallacy. And we always think that something feels unfinished. So rather than take a step back and evaluate and say, am I living in alignment with my core values and what I actually find fulfilling in my life? We just put our heads down some more and think maybe it's I just have to obtain one more credential or one more tier in the income reel, or buy the big house, or get married and have the kids and get the dog. And then at what point do we say, I feel like I have enough? I am enough.

SPEAKER_01:

I think that's very powerful what you're saying. I have enough, but especially I am enough. And I think that's one thing that society paints exactly what you said, right? Like the epitome of success is having X amount of titles, this type of car, this type of house, this many square feet, this amount in savings and retirement, this number of kids, this number of pets, and this number of this much of debt, but we forget that truly being yourself is enough.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, and when we have been chasing titles for so long and put our worth into those careers, and while I asked when we were talking about how do we introduce ourselves, and I asked to be introduced by my name because I'm stripping myself of that attachment to titles that wants to find me. Because at one point, for people that don't know my story, I fast-tracked my way to become an Air Force oral Maxwell Facial Surgeon, thinking that when I reach that residency and that part of my career, I would feel a sense of worthiness and strength that would deter people who would oppress me from messing with me. That I would be the ultimate badass, they would not touch me. But then in residency, I was thinking this doesn't feel like it's the right path for me. Something, and I didn't know if it was self-doubt. People are talking about the imposter syndrome, which is a quite questionable terminology, but I had high levels of self-doubt. I brought the low self-esteem with me. And then during the long sleepless periods, which I thought prolonged sleeplessness and showing that you didn't need sleep and that you're superhuman was part of that worthiness factor. But I became suicidal no matter how hard I tried to rethink and reframe and take a step back. It's like I could not function well at all and maintain rational thought process when I had long periods of sleep deprivation. And I thought, oh, this is just me. I can't hack it. But how dare I consider quitting? Because if I quit, I wouldn't be able to handle, these are my thoughts at the time. I wouldn't be able to handle the guilt and shame of being a quitter, the ultimate failure. And this is in my mid to late 20s. So for so long, I had just put my self-esteem in all of my grades. And that's where I gained that perception that if I were to quit, I'm better off no longer being alive, which is I'm that was 2014-17. We're here in 2024. I think so much differently back then, but than I did back then. But it's a newer permission for myself to think differently because I held on to the belief that when I left surgery, I was a failure and worthless for five years after I left, which was 2017, 2022, because I thought it was just me, which is why these conversations that you have in your podcasts that I have on my YouTube channel are essential. So that people can hear their story in someone else and be like, yes, our brain is offering ourselves an illusion, a fallacy, which is ingrained in a lot of the core beliefs that we developed early on that society provides to us. We can reclaim those narratives. We can lead fulfilling lives. And you shared on my channel, we talked about this is that the life that we thought we needed to have in our 20s, even in 30s, whenever we are, doesn't have to be the life that we claim at this stage. Like it may have served us in a season. It doesn't necessarily mean it has to serve us now, but we often force ourselves that once we commit to something, we have to stay that path.

SPEAKER_01:

No, I thank you for bringing that up because that's so true. It's okay. And I think part of it is the everything that we have to go through to get to through medicine or through residency. It's I have to stick to the path. I have to stick to the path. And one thing that we forget is the scenic route is okay.

SPEAKER_00:

Absolutely. It's more than okay. And it's also there's the whole cost fallacy as well. And I got my dental degree in 2013. I never felt it was the right fit for me. But then again, I couldn't differentiate if it was self-confidence or if it was just I needed more experience. So I kept at it. But I had always wanted to do something in the psycho-spiritual area where I'm really into helping people to ground themselves on that spiritual wellness, the psychological wellness, what's the meaning and purpose of life, like existential questions. But when I was an undergrad, that wasn't supported by my family. And my father was supporting my undergrad college tuition. And unfortunately for me, but also learning through dentistry, I wouldn't have been too far off with the finances compared to having my college choices determined by my want to please somebody who didn't want me to go into psychology or the mental health space because it didn't resonate with them. So it's fascinating when I think about the pivotal points in my life and when I decided to go against my intuition, what was the leading factor? It was usually to please somebody else and allowed someone else's opinion to overtake my own on a decision that impacted my life the most.

SPEAKER_01:

That's I think that's more common than what we think, isn't it? Like, psychologists, why would you want to do that? There's a d there dime a dozen. But the truth is going back to answering that call to being truthful, the existential questions, those are my favorite questions. Yeah. But I think it's because why are they? Why are you drawn to those questions? Let me ask you that.

SPEAKER_00:

Since I was a kid, I was always trying to determine who am I? What is this all about? I remember looking, I have a picture from when I was maybe six or so, maybe a little bit younger. I remember what house I lived in. I lived in there till I was six. I was six or younger in this little dancing bear costume for Halloween, looking in the mirror. And in that mirror, I was exploring, looking into my eyes, assessing who are you? What is this? What is this life? And there was so much suffering. And I developed a pretty severe eating disorder that almost claimed my life. And during that time, it was very isolating. So I wrote a lot of poetry, was very into spirituality, and it's with the isolation that came with it. I spent a lot of time with introspection and saying this is so much suffering. In order to hold on to some sort of hope, it had to find a meaning in this human existence.

SPEAKER_01:

It's I'm sorry you went through that and I'm glad you're here. Thank you. It's interesting that even at a young age you were asking those questions because typically it's not until an older age that we start asking those questions, maybe even middle age or at periods of transition, maybe like at the decade mark, 20s, 30s, 40s. How do you define your core values?

SPEAKER_00:

I I would definitely want people to know that your core values shift. We talked about that on in our discussion when you were the guests, and the core values. Often I figure out what my core values are when I'm feeling frustrated or resentful to a situation that's not in alignment. Like, why am why is this causing you so much distress? I'm like, oh, because it's encroaching on a core value of mine. So when I was in oral surgery, some of the deciding factors that helped me to decide to transition were I was on so sleep deprived that my ex-boyfriend who I was very much in love with called me and I looked at the phone. It was like eight o'clock. I had just taken a melatonin because I was so sleep dysregulated. And I was like, you know what? We're gonna talk a long time. I just can't right now. I'm gonna call him tomorrow. And I put the phone down. I texted him first thing in the morning. And a couple of days later, the text back I got was from his sister that he passed away unexpectedly. And I had gone up to that point with suicidal ideation, but my life wasn't as valuable as his life was. So when he passed away and I had the pain of regret of not being there for him, and then I saw how I had been doing that over and over again to the people that I love. I was like, oh my gosh, like the purpose of my life is to connect with the people that you love and human connection and shared community. And here I am in this surgical residency. I was feeling so isolated. But fortunately, like the medical side of it, when I was in medical school, I really connected a lot of the medical students and I felt that sense of community. But I translated that moment to surgical life, like going from people say, Oh, you're halfway through residency, you're almost at the end. I'm like, no, you're almost the beginning of your career, right? You're not almost the end. So I was like, well, how does this look after I graduate? And is that in alignment with my core values? And what I realized is that image was ego-driven and letting that go was hard. But at the core, if I could define what would be joy for me as living in like a small town, really having a good idea who the people are, hiking through the forests, living a very simple life. And what I realized when I define that for myself is that I was having this belief that I needed this external persona, the surgeon, to hide the sensitive parts of myself because I thought my sensitivity was a weakness. Had I gone into psychology, it would have been a strength, right? And then I would have had to develop emotional boundaries so that didn't become too much. But I'm like, the gift I was given is my capacity to observe human emotions, hold space for people. But I muted that and thought I needed to harden up and grow thicker skin based off of what I was hearing and the messages I was provided from societal values.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, that's what the messages in medical school and residency is that if you quit or if you fail fail at somebody's gonna be here to fill your seat. It's almost like the movie The Expendables, right? Yes. Everybody's expendable. We're still gonna have a we're still gonna turn out doctors, we're still gonna have our job, we're still gonna have the cyborg tower. The same with corporatization of medicine. To someone listening, maybe who has come to a crossroads of this is a what I signed up for, and having the biggest bank account isn't the the most important, but I'm afraid to maybe say, I don't want to do this, or I want to cut back, or I want to look at maybe not doing so much. What would you tell them? Because that's uh that's I know it's an external dialogue or internal dialogue, sorry, an internal dialogue I've had. And at some point it was just like, screw it, I need to do this for my own sanity.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, a lot of us do hit a breaking point, which makes it easier. But before the breaking point, if people can offer themselves permission when they're feeling well, that's actually optimal, right? Because if we hit a breaking point, it's really hard to re-establish and have the energy to bounce into something else at that point. It's I would say rest is important. But for those people who are feeling like I'm not where I want to be, but having a fear of making a change, I would ask, what's coming up for you? What meaning are you attaching to this consideration? So in surgery, for example, if I were to say doing applying to surgery, they say, don't say you're interested in anything else, even if you are, because you have to show 100% commitment or you won't get in. So oftentimes people who are considering leaving surgery don't want to talk to another surgeon who is gung-ho about surgery, right? I become a safe space because I left surgery. So I realize that it's like, oh, people are having a hard time speaking their truth. And this is accurate, is that you need to confide in the people who you feel will listen and not project their own insecurities and cause you to or contribute to you not being able to hear yourself. So for people who have listened to a lot of people's opinions for so long, take a step back, sit on your own. I would highly encourage sitting. If you have a friend that's there to listen and doesn't offer advice, that's fantastic. A therapist is fantastic. A coach should not be offering you advice. They should be helping you to really cultivate the answers within yourself. But a therapist can help you really trace back if you're having some trauma coming up or things that defined you that need a little bit more support therapeutically. And for many of us in medicine and healthcare, it's not only mental trauma, but there's trauma stored in the body. So there's so many feelings that can come up that can make it overwhelming to consider a change. So for me personally, I've really invested in therapeutic modalities that both help with the mental side of things, but also the somatic, wherein you're feeling high overwhelm or just like you want to jump out of your skin when you're considering making any sort of pivot or going to work, whatever wherever you are, and whatever's your experiences in this human body.

SPEAKER_01:

Thank you for that. And I think that state enough how a life coach or how helpful therapy is. It's this maybe life coaches are not as a red flag. I know that many states are moving toward not penalizing physicians for seeking help, particularly because a lot of these things that we that you've discussed are first line treatment.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01:

They're human conditions. They're human conditions.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01:

And we are not it's not like the condition says, Oh, you're a physician, so I can't bother you. And these are medical conditions. Yeah. No, I'll edit this out, but I've I've even I've done EMDR. Yeah, it's what I'm doing right now. I love I loved it.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01:

I know it sounds crazy, but I I enjoyed it because I really got to the root of the problem.

SPEAKER_00:

I am, yeah. I am I just started EMDR and also was referred to aquine therapy. And I'm really into different modalities of therapeutic expression, express writing. Things that we have all this stigma when it comes to doing things outside of Western medicine, or even EMDR is it's standard, it's an evidence-based protocol, from what I know. But so I did Martha Beck's Wayfinder Life Coach Training. And a lot of people will give this kind of disclaimer. I'm not woo, quote unquote. I'm like, you know what? We need a little bit more woo, because to me, woo equates to spirituality in for different people. And what was missing from me that I kept writing down, I kept coming to it. I found my journals from back in 2014, 17.

SPEAKER_01:

I've been following those posts on on social media.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, thank you. I kept writing, I think I'm having a spiritual crisis. I would consistently end my journal entries was I'm not sure this therapy is what I need. I think I'm having a spiritual crisis. And in that, now I have terms for it is the moral injury, right, that we face in medicine. And I didn't know those terms at the time. I actually learned that term when I was at the VA, looking at a billboard for PTSD, going down the symptom checklist and it described moral injury. I'm like, that they finally put a name, like going against your core values and your moral beliefs. When you think you're going to be practicing medicine, it looks a lot different than the corporate medicine does. And if you're not able to serve the human, just like your podcast serves, it re-brings the human into our discussions. If you're not able to really cater to the human, we sort of depersonalize both the patient and ourselves. That makes no sense, does it? No. Because one of the biggest healer factors is going to be a human connection.

SPEAKER_01:

So it's interesting. It's interesting how we don't bring the spirituality. And it's, I think it's different than faith-based or even religious-based, but just the fact of there's this we're a spirit living a human experience. We're energy. And it's like we completely strip that away from the person in front of us who's a patient. We try to separate the mental from the physical. We try to say, okay, this is mental health, this is physical health. And this is oral health.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah. Right. This is oral health, and you gotta go to the optometrist for your glasses, right?

SPEAKER_01:

This is a human being where each part works together to find the words to take in an experience.

SPEAKER_00:

And there's a few things that came up too there. Is I feel like sometimes we don't talk about spirituality because we're afraid to put our own beliefs out, share our own beliefs with patients, which we don't have to. We're not there to tell the patient what to believe. We're there to ask with curiosity, what is your support right now? What beliefs are helping you through this right now? And then you get a better idea and learn about the patient. And I think because in our culture, we don't talk about, we're not supposed to talk about religion, right? Religion or politics, even though we do talk a lot about politics. But I'm wondering if that contributes to why we suppress those discussions and that curiosity. And then with mental health, right, there's so many medical conditions that that impact our mind, even like GI conditions impact my mind. We talked about eating disorder, impacts, it comes from the mind, impacts the body, but also we pathologize so much that I feel is a normal human reaction to the circumstances. On my channel, you said you are a human, not a robot, which I loved. It's a tagline I use for social media as well, because I think we're all treated like robots and we need to bring the humans back into the system. But let's consider our human basic needs that aren't being met during practicing medicine, right? It's like you can't go pee on time, you can't eat, you're not sleeping, you're not connecting with the people you love, you may not have time for the fitness that you desire. And are you really leaning into the spiritual beliefs that you find grounding and meaningful to you? We are able to convey this is important to the patients, but are we able to practice it? Or are we charting in our pajama? Like that's a very common theme that comes up when we think about our limited time outside of the clinic.

SPEAKER_01:

It's become like a silent expectation, hasn't it?

SPEAKER_00:

That with unpaid labor, which is a whole discussion on its own.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, don't even get me started. It's yeah, no, that's for me, that'd be a breach of contract. And uh that would be a breach of contract. Like why not getting paid? No. Unfortunately, that's not an uncommon narrative.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, and we're taught to expect it. So when we were trying to establish our core values after years of playing by the rules, as we talked about, in order to get to where we're at, we often had to play by somebody else's rules, live by somebody else's values. So there was some need or perceived need to sacrifice some things that were important to us in order to get to a place that was very important to us. Right. So it's what are we going to compromise in order to get to where we think we want to go? And a lot of stories I heard when people are pursuing medicine is I pursued medicine because the expectation in my family was I become a doctor, a lawyer, or an engineer. And I never got the opportunity to really step back and say if I want to do this. So I think that's the first step, really, is do you want to do medicine? Is this where you want to be? And if not, what would it take for you to give yourself permission to consider? I don't even have to give a whole bunch of action just yet, yet to consider where you would be happier. And if you want to stay in medicine, but you're feeling something's not going well before you leave your job, unless it's a really toxic situation, you don't have to leave your job. It can actually be more fulfilling if you take a step back and say what value. Values aren't being met. Can I create a situation in this current job where I change that and that I can meet my values and create boundaries and unlearn some of the things I learned to get here? And if not, then what's the next step for me?

SPEAKER_01:

No, thank you for that, because this is not a field that anybody should do unless they absolutely love it. Hindsight, right? Hindsight's 2020. I don't know if that's actually a thing, but it's a saying. There are not just societal expectations, but also cultural and family expectations that go into the decisions we make, how we come across, how we talk to ourselves. No, I even met my two my knuckleheads. And I just hope that they don't think that there are those expectations for them. Hopefully our generation has it a little bit better, a little bit more insight than to not force that upon those that come after us.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, we have the consequences of overvaluing a sense of perfectionism and of being a good girl for me. Good girl, rule follower, obedient, disciplined. All those things I personally took too far. And I took too far where they were clearly detrimental to my overall health and mental health because perfectionism for me, I found I held that like a badge of honor. Perfectionism, overwork, sleep deprivation, sacrificing myself, being overly busy, like when I was holding two pagers and going days without sleep and was at the hospital, barely ever home. It's like, wow, I've really made it and I'm miserable. Why am I miserable? And then fast forward, I after I left oral surgery, I did another residency called oral medicine. And then I was in my first attending job. And I was okay, now here's I finally made it, right? Here's another arrival fallacy. Residency, I can't wait to get out. I'm gonna go to be an attending, and I can't wait to go back into fellowship because hell, I hate this attending hood. It's a lot of responsibility, and you have no oversight for many physicians, depending on your environment. But what I realized at the time is okay, I felt if I just kept putting my head down, I would at least find myself closer to being content and proud of myself. And I was getting further and further. I was more and more empty. And then COVID hit, and I had sold everything I owned due to some instability in the job front. And I felt so free. And I reminded myself of how I felt in undergrad, which is the time I felt most in alignment with my true self, which was I went to a small undergrad. We were really into philosophy. It was a Lutheran college, so we took religion and we took gender studies and liberal arts classes and very well-rounded curriculum, like depending on what you chose. And I wore a t-shirt and like sweatpants every day. It was like very much in my comfort. And I really leaned into a lot of spiritual beliefs from all different backgrounds at that time, and I loved exploring those. I really gravitated towards the Buddhist and Eastern philosophies. And I loved nature at that time. And I just felt so light. And I did a lot of poetry. I was in a poetry class. And then after that, I played by everyone else's rules and lost myself. And it just felt so drastically different. I was just always nauseous in the gut, which is what I think when you're living out of alignment, like your body knows, but we ignore it. And we've been conditioned to dissociate from our bodies to do the jobs that we do. And so everyone, depending on where they're at and what they've done to get to where they're at, it takes a lot of different steps to reintegrate your mind, your body, your spirit to be able to really hear yourself and tune in to what your body's saying.

SPEAKER_01:

No, it's I your undergrad experience sounds a lot like mine. Little liberal arts Catholic college in Wichita, Kansas, Newman University. And why would I mention that is because it is a well-rounded curriculum. It's even though with undergrad, yeah, there was a sense of you can be who you are because the you s you can still get a good experience that it's what you make of it. Yeah. But there's no, let's say, it's just a nice laid-back vibe, and you get to take all these different courses that allow you to look through different lenses. So does Jillian now resonate with Jillian from undergrad?

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, yeah. In undergrad, I really feel that experience keeps coming top of mind because I've been through so many healing modalities. I feel like I'm reintegrating with that part of myself. And I ran uh cross-country and tracking college with a really great coach. And it was not very, it was really fun, I should say. It was I went to a D3 college. So we really prioritized our studies and our runs, he was so goofy that it just created this really lighthearted enjoyment of running. In contrast to had I gone to a D1 college, I just look at it and thinking through a highly disciplined eating disorder lens, how much I would have just been trapped in that mindset. And my the lessons I've heard from other D1 athletes is if you have an addictive compulsive running issue, they're not gonna really try to help you through that because it sometimes supports your achievement in running until you wear down and break down, right? Up into a point. And then it doesn't. But my coach in undergrad was there's just created no expectation of we had a very abundant lunch schmorkishborg that he would bring that was like a whole bunch of foods that wouldn't fit the whole food type of a spectrum, all these processed foods and whatever. It was what it was. And I just remember that was so much fun. And he still runs to this day with I think he has got two hip replacements. And just thinking back to that experience as I was trying to heal my own relationship with myself and running has been a grounding opportunity. So I'm really grateful I've had that experience where I have that memory and I can say, you know what, my life has been really great at times and felt so true to me. And what was the what were the ingredients? What were the values that were standing out from that time?

SPEAKER_01:

I think it's so important that you're saying those ingredients. And it's it's a lot of those times that we need to reverse engineer life that we do have the autonomy over our life and we forget that.

SPEAKER_00:

Yep. And I find that when people are in a system that's really oppressive, they learn that that learned helplessness where it doesn't feel like they have any autonomy. And then if you're really burnt out and you hear you have autonomy, you might feel triggered by that. This is not my fault, which is true. There's a lot of systemic components to your distrust. And what aspects of this are in your agency? And it's important to know that there are aspects that are in your agency, because when we feel that we are hopeless and helpless and trapped, that will increase the risk that we will want to take our own life for many people that are at risk.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, no. Thank you for pointing that out. And again, this is not to trigger anybody, but it is to remember that we have the power and how we respond. And so if somebody needs to hear that, even though hopeless and helpless, that is a real thing. I've never been down that road. It's something that we f we forget. We have control over what we're gonna do tomorrow, whether that is to show up at at work, or whether it's to resign, or whether it's to say, you know what, this is what I need to be happy. One of the biggest things is when you are down in that deep hole of despair, of hopelessness, of helplessness, how does one take a step back and say, this is what I need? Or how do they start to define that? Because it seems like it'd be very easy and for everything to run together and to be very difficult to tease out what they need.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, I had uh very limited capacity to identify what I needed. So for me and for people, I feel that it's important to have a support system around you, and some people can hold on to hope. I had an internal medicine physician who specialized in eating disorders that would consistently tell me I was gonna die. And I could tell that she wanted my treatment for me more than I did, could tell that I cared more about her. So I put, I'm going to try harder for her. I'm gonna hold on to hope. So at some point, like I'm gonna borrow her hope with the expectation that at some point in my life, shall I keep trying? This will go away, this will get better. So I did borrow other people's hope, but I leaned on them because I could not think clearly. Had I made my own decisions, I wouldn't be here. I ended up going inpatient for a psychiatry unit for my eating disorder. And one of them, one of the treatment centers couldn't keep me because I was too sick from a heart weight standpoint. And so I coped with that by going back to work. And then a year later, I was impatient and I was so concerned that I would go fly across the country to a treatment center that couldn't keep me that I accepted admission into my home institution, which was a very vulnerable action on my part. And it was hard because I had just worked with the residents that then took care of me and I knew more about my condition than they're taught in their own residency. With eating disorders are very scarcely discussed, and the education is highly deficient. But I was in there feeling so vulnerable, and they ended up putting somebody from my residency who's a year behind me on the floor to rotate. I felt so exposed. You know what? I just have to own this is part of my story, this is part of my journey. And I was medically stabilized and I needed to be there. So I accepted admission and I wanted to sign, I did sign a 72-hour form the moment I realized as an unlocked unit after I'm so independent. But I was like, I know that if I leave here, there's a good chance I'm gonna die. And I'm not sure that's the fate I want right now. And I had friends come up and visit me that were from med school and some of the anesthesia resident. And my outpatient psychiatrist who I did trust with eating disorders came and was like, you need to like stay here, please. So I stayed for a month and then I got discharged from the military, unfortunately for me, which I think it's unfortunately, fortunately, I think it was probably the best decision at the time, but it left me without that insurance and care. And so I really had to reclaim agency over my life at that point. And that's when I actually got into coaching for my own healing and a whole bunch of different therapeutic modalities because I knew I had tried all that Western medicine had to offer me and there was something missing, and I just kept it coming up. I think I'm having a spiritual crisis, I think I'm all out of alignment with my true nature and I didn't have the answers, but I had just enough in me to say I'm gonna keep trying something different. I'm gonna keep holding on to hope. And if I don't have it for myself, I'm gonna borrow the hope from those around me who still want me to be here.

SPEAKER_01:

That is so powerful because that just goes back to the connection of human beings and the energy. You can tell when somebody genuinely cares about you because of the energy they put out. Yeah. The tone that they use in their voice, the actions that they show. Those definitely they walk the walk and they talk to talk. Thank you for your service. And I'm still, again, I'm happy that you're here.

SPEAKER_00:

Thank you. And and I speak about it because I want other people who are in the same situation, different circumstances, similar experiences to know that we want them to be here too, that they're worthy, that they're loved, that they have so much to offer the world just by being themselves, that their worth is not tied to their career, to their income, to their relationships. If you have inosort, it's not tied to your body size or your weights or your calorie expenditure or your calorie intake. Once we can just accept that we are worthy as humans just for being here and that there's a community that loves you and that you are unique, like we keep comparing ourselves to people, but what we often do is we compare our perceived weaknesses to people's strengths, right? Like if I see, oh my gosh, you are an amazing podcaster. And then I'm gonna compare, if I want to start a podcast, I'm looking at somebody that's already been doing it for a while, they're doing it really well, and I think I suck at it, but I'm gonna compare myself to somebody who's doing a really good job with it just to create that gap within myself, just to prove to myself that I'm unworthy. And it's this self-fulfilling prophecy that our brain offers us. And it's common. So I'm not saying it to judge us, but just accept, oh yeah, I heard that this is what our brain often offers. This comparison trap to validate my beliefs. And we can validate both ways, right? If we want to feel that we are strong, empowering, capable people who can conquer anything, we're more likely to take the actions and accept and adopt the beliefs that get us to succeed and not always or get us to try and navigate things that don't work out the way we expected, versus if we feel that we're worthless. For me personally, I was learning about being a highly sensitive person. And in a book I just read, it talked about if I perceived that as a weakness my whole life and that I was a problem. The book talked about that highly sensitive people are more likely to stay in abusive situations, whether it be work or relationships, because their whole life they thought that they were unworthy, something was wrong with them. So those relationships validate that. Because if I thought I was valuable, then I wouldn't accept this treatment that made me feel less than and devalued me.

SPEAKER_01:

We are worthy. The fact that we're living, breathing human beings, we're worthy just with that. Yeah. And it's so easy to say, and sometimes it can be hard to believe. But by being alive, by getting up today, we're worthy because we have air in our lungs, our heart is beating. We're a human being. And you're right. It's very easy to say X, Y, and Z, but it's more it takes a lot of training, it takes a lot of retraining. And those are the behaviors like to retrain our thoughts because it can come out sideways, and then we start bling and going back to it served us well, like in medical school and residency and so on and so forth. But it's maladaptive now as a 41-year-old adult. Like it would be a maladaptive behavior.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, yeah. And it takes how many times we can say you're worthy, and we often see it for other people, right? Like, I think 100% you can succeed and create the life that you truly desire as defined by you. Then apply it in my own life. And I noticed this when actually a lot of people were pivoting careers and I was champing them during the time where I was shaming myself. And I was like, oh, isn't that fascinating? It's this dichotomy of expectation. And I think that was a deficit of self-compassion and also a lot of practice and self-deprecation and self-criticism, which just needed more practice and the contrary of doing self-compassion meditations, being kind. Even when our nervous system is so used to being at a high level of anxiety and overwhelm, it's very uncomfortable when you start to sit in the calm and it feels wrong. And so there's this period of time where you really need to reset the nervous system and it's uncomfortable and it will feel wrong. So often when it feels wrong or uncomfortable, we dive back into the familiar, even if it's not in our best interest. So just expecting that there's going to be a period of time, I like for the military days, embrace the suck. Once once I started therapy, things got a lot worse before they got better. And when things were getting worse, I wanted to retreat, but I knew that's the way I needed to go. I'm like, these are the things I haven't leaned into before. And my capacity to create a fulfilling life is on the other side of feeling these emotions. So you came on and helped me have a discussion about the importance of feeling our emotions. And we've numbed ourselves for so long and suppressed so many emotions for so long that once we start to feel them, we're like, what do I do with this? What do I actually do with this? And if you don't surround yourself with support who can help you process, you usually will go back to what you're doing, either numbing, distracting, overworking. And so that's why it's important to really pause and to check in with yourself.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, you're absolutely right. As King Kong roars, the I think we've forgotten how to be human. Being human is messy, being an adult is messy. If I don't have everything figured out, and I'm not gonna sit here and say that I do. What I want at 41 might be different at 45, it might be different at 50, and that's okay. We change.

SPEAKER_00:

And it and there are so many things that we didn't really question who created this definition of success or expectations for what females should show up like. Who is actually benefiting? I think about this for diet culture in particular when it comes to what they were selling. And for me, I always just wanted to be smaller, not just physically, but just cowered down and be invisible. And I think that was a safety thing. It felt safe and I wasn't as vulnerable, so I wasn't as exposed. And I think the key thing was I just was craving safety. And so when we challenge what we've been taught, for me, being more able to use my voice and saying things and feeling more confident, taking up space, and no longer accepting times where I'm oppressed and sticking up and advocating for people who are in situations where they're being oppressed or talked over or not seen, that creates a lot of friction with some people. And the people who's who were benefiting off of us not setting boundaries, out of people pleasing, out of being quiet, of making ourselves smaller in every aspect of the way by not using our voice or not applying for roles that we want. The people who are benefiting off of those actions are gonna get mad when you take a step up. And we always hear like the deaf the difference between somebody who is assertive or aggressive is the gender. And that comes up for me in coaching situations where a woman was told that she is too blunt, just too forthcoming. And even if she's mindfully direct and packages up her directness in a way that is professional, she still gets the feedback of she's too blunt, this is too direct, it's unprofessional. But why is because I live in the South and so it's a cultural thing because this a lot of the clients, I'm from the Midwest. And so a lot of us are just honest, right? Like just say what we're thinking. And some people I talk to that are having this experience acclimating to expectations in a different state, is they were used to people really valuing their directness. And directness doesn't have to be abrasive or aggressive, it's just clear and it can be respectful. I am transparent and direct with you because that's my love language. So there's no mistaking. I value clear communication. But people are having problems with you rather than thinking, oh, it's I am the problem. It's thinking, how is that person viewing me and what social expectations and values are they perceiving me through? And what is it bringing up for me when they tell me they don't like something about me? And do I want to change it or not?

SPEAKER_01:

No, absolutely. That's interesting, isn't it? About the cultural differences, even in the same country. I can say that I think that they would be welcomed here in the Midwest for sure.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, I agree. It would be the people who are speak around they beat around the bush that would be the ones who are like, You're driving me nuts. Tell me what you're really thinking, right? For somebody to have me guessing, it makes me just uh I do not appreciate it. Just tell me what you're really thinking.

SPEAKER_01:

What is one last pro of wisdom that you would leave with our listeners?

SPEAKER_00:

I would say take a step back, really sit with yourself. Feel if you can, write down your top five core values. And if you can't, consider situations in your life where you're feeling light and comfortable and like in flow and where you're feeling a lot of resistance, maybe like you're having reactions in your gut, or you're having a headache, or you notice yourself getting short fuse. And notice if that is suggesting where your values may be crossed, or you where you may be out of alignment, or where your needs aren't being met. And just really do an inventory. I think the awareness is a first step that many of us haven't taken the opportunity to take.

SPEAKER_01:

Thank you for that. King Kong roared again. And where could people connect with you virtually on YouTube?

SPEAKER_00:

Yes, YouTube, they can come hang out on a life true to you. So it's under my name, Jillian Riggard, DMDMD, a life true to you. They will see your amazing interview there. Make sure to comment, share the love. They can also connect with me on LinkedIn. It's my name, Jillian Riggard.

SPEAKER_01:

Thank you very much for your time, Jillian. It's as always, it's been a it's been a great conversation.

SPEAKER_00:

It's been a pleasure. I really appreciate the opportunity to be here. So thank you. Thanks for tuning in to another episode from the Worthy Physician Podcast.

SPEAKER_01:

If you enjoyed this episode, be sure to subscribe, leave a review, and share it with someone who'd love. Bit too. Don't forget to follow us on YouTube, LinkedIn, Instagram for more updates and insights. Until next time, keep inspiring, learning, growing, and living your best life.