The Worthy Physician

Discernment for Physicians: Navigating Moral Injury, Insurance Pressures, and Career Fit | Dr. Joe Sherman, MD

• Dr. Sapna Shah-Haque MD

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We explore how a well-seasoned pediatrician, Dr. Joe Sherman, MD, shifted into coaching after recognizing a life mismatch and burnout, and how self-awareness, discernment, and self-compassion can restore a sustainable life in medicine. We share practical reflection habits, identify transferable skills, and highlight peer support that reduces isolation.

• vocation versus role identity beyond the white coat
• discernment as a daily practice 
• small, workable habits for reflection and awareness
• structure versus mindset when assessing job fit
• moral injury from insurance and systemic pressures
• courage to pivot and learn from less-than-ideal workplaces
• transferable physician skills across non-clinical work
• team culture, shared mission, and belonging at work
• mentorship, coaching, and global peer support options
• self-compassion as the base for sustainable service


Contact Dr. Sherman:  joshermanmd.com or email Joe@joshermanmd.com

Check out Physicians Anonymous; it’s free, confidential, and open to medical students, residents, and physicians worldwide.

The book that Joe mentioned in the podcast: Let Your Life Speak: Listening for the Voice of Vocation by Parker Palmer.

If you enjoyed this episode, be sure to subscribe, leave a review, and share it with someone who'd love it too.



Though I am a physician, this is not medical advice. This is only a tool that physicians can use to get ideas on how to deal with burnout and/or know they are not alone. If you are in need of medical assistance talk to your physician.


Learn more about female physicians' journey through burnout to thriving!
https://www.theworthyphysician.com/books

Let's connect for speaking opportunities!
https://www.theworthyphysician.com/dr-shahhaque-md-as-a-speaker

Check out the free resources from The Worthy Physician:
https://www.theworthyphysician.com/freebie-downloads

Battle of the Boxes

21 Day Self Focus Journal

Dr. Shah-Haque:

Welcome to another episode of The Worthy Physician. I'm your host, Dr. Sapna Shah-Haque, reigniting your humanity and passion for medicine. Yeah, this week is going to be a little different. It was right before Christmas. Merry Christmas to all of you listening, watching, and celebrating. Going back to having a live guest, and this is Dr. Joe Sherman. We've known each other and we've met through Physicians Anonymous and just mutual work. And Joe, do you mind sharing a little bit about yourself and your story with the listeners?

Dr. Sherman:

Sure. Thanks so much, Sapna. First of all, for inviting me to be here and spending Christmas week with you a little bit. I uh live in Seattle, Washington, and originally from the other Washington, D.C. I'm a pediatrician. I've been a pediatrician for, I think I'm on my 38th year officially since I've started practicing. However, these days I'm not practicing clinically anymore. I am spending my time coaching individual healthcare providers, majority physicians, but just about all types of health professionals, and working with medical teams and trying to improve their communication, collaboration, teamwork, and also sponsoring retreats and workshops for individual physicians and health providers. So that's what I do now and have done full-time for the last five years or so.

Dr. Shah-Haque:

How'd you fall into that or how did you navigate toward that?

Dr. Sherman:

I've I guess my in retrospect, I would say that the kind of work that I do now is the kind of work that I felt called to do way back when I was a young person in college, was a resident advisor and tutor and counselor for different programs as a younger person. But medicine was a way to kind of channel that gifts, those interests that I had, and found as I went through my training and my career that pediatrics and the combination of working with parents as well as children as a family was a way also for me to use those types of counseling and accompaniment skill. However, as I went through my career, which was a long and windy road with many changes and many stops and starts, I would say, I would have my ups and downs of when I felt like this is a good fit or this is not a good fit. And as a result of that, eventually after returning from living overseas in Bolivia with my family for four years, I came back to the U.S. and had a fairly significant burnout experience in retrospect, or I would say at least a bad fit experience with who I am and I was at the time and the system I was working within. And so from that experience and recovery from that, I spent some time looking at my life and what it taught me. I read this book called Let Your Life Speak by Parker Palmer, which really taught me to look at my life experiences and learn from that of who I am, how I respond and react in certain situations. And that's where I came upon this idea of accompaniment directly with healthcare providers, those folks who I was in my community and folks I worked alongside of. And that's how I naturally moved into the coaching and facilitation world.

Dr. Shah-Haque:

So it wasn't an indirect path. It was more of the scenic route, which when I'm the more and more I speak to physicians, I think that it's more common than not. I think there's a preconceived notion that we need to go straight from high school into a college curriculum that is very rigorous and achieved, and then go straight into medical school, trade, straight into residency and then practice. And that's just the end all be all.

Dr. Sherman:

Yeah, I did go directly from college into medical school. I think in retrospect, yeah, unfortunately, I have lived a lot of my adult life with a lot of looking back and self-doubt and wondering what if. I don't do that anymore. Fortunately, gone through some experiences that have moved me at least a little further away from doing that. But I would say that one of the reasons that I took that direct route was because of my upbringing and my parents were not college graduates. And being one of seven kids, it was very much a push to get everybody an opportunity to go to college. That was especially my father's big push. He was working for the post office and always had the pressure of trying to earn money and raise a family, and never had a chance to do a lot of things in his life, so he wanted his kids to. So getting through college was a huge thing. And then going to medical school. Unfortunately, both my parents died while I was in college. So I was on my own at that point. I had older brothers and sisters, but at that point it was for me in retrospect, go with the plan, which was to go to medical school, or stop and have to wrestle with the grief and loss and whatever the uncertainty that might bring. And at the time, for me, the choice was keep going and at least have some structure and a plan to move forward in. And then life happens and opportunities arise. And I have to say, in my career, I never had this idea that either I was going to join some practice in a small town and practice there until I retire and die, or to have some type of academic or corporate route that would rise me to the top of leadership. It was always where do I feel most comfortable now in this moment in my life? And then after getting married, having a lifelong partner and having kids, it was what was the best decision for all of us at a particular point in time? And fortunately, my wife, my life partner, is someone who doesn't have the same kind of second-guessing, self-doubting, kicking and screaming for change with changes that I do. She has led the way with a lot of the changes that we've had, both moving abroad, moving to different places, moving jobs.

Dr. Shah-Haque:

So before the recording, we were talking about career discernment. And that really ties into what you've described as is this a good fit? Can you walk me through that and maybe what you encounter with or what a direction or guidance you give your physician clients through coaching about that? Because I think it's a good discussion that we have before going into medical school and then before choosing like which residency to apply to, but it is something I think that holds through throughout our career.

Dr. Sherman:

I know Sapna, you have talked about that finish line mentality. I'll just get to that, the next thing, the next step, and so forth. And so many of us who go through medical training and pursue specific specialties, I think, that have sub-specialties, fellowships, and all these further finish lines, often wonder when we get to the end, now what's the next line? And the answer to that for me, the next finish line is every day of your life, each day that you have to live and what life brings you and what it is that you discover about yourself that you if you have the privilege enough to pursue that financially, personally, professionally, all the other ways, then uh that's your life. That's the next finish. So working with clients as well as with myself, it all starts with self-awareness. It all starts with who am I? Who am I independent of the white coat? Who am I independent of the stethoscope, of the amazing vocation of medicine, which really allows you to share intimately with other people in a way that other professions don't allow you to? But who am I beyond that? And and by going to experiences that I've had in my life where I felt truly alive, truly myself, and whether that be in medicine or not, what were the elements involved in that? Do I feel that way now, physically, emotionally, spiritually, if I'm in my job, when I go to my job? And how much of that is a factor of the structure and the organization that I'm surrounded in, the water I'm swimming in, and how much of that comes from my own mindsets, my own self-awareness, my own reflection of who I am and what's the mat. That's some broad strokes of the way I would approach it. And I always talk about the structure versus the individual personal elements of it, and both are extremely important. I, however, the most accessible as far as working with is the personal, because it's you and what's going on inside of it and being aware of that. And then looking as we understand ourselves better, looking around us and say, okay, now where am I? Does this make sense? If I shift my mindset to be more positive, to try to see where I do have opportunities and try to pursue those opportunities. If I'm constantly running into brick walls and roadblocks and this is unhealthy for me, then that means it's time for change.

Dr. Shah-Haque:

No, I'm glad that you brought that up. You brought you mentioned two things that I that really caught my ear, well, ears. First one was vocation. And the second thing is the fact that you have to be aware. And then actually the there's a third thing, and if you're running into constant roadblocks, then it's time for change. And the first thing is yes, medicine, even though the insurance companies don't play by the same ethics and rules that we as physicians do, it would be fantastic if they did instead of looking at gains per quarter. And this is, I think this is a shared pain point for all of those, all of us in healthcare. They play by a different set of rules. And it's not fair. I don't think it's ethical. And it puts the strain on the very beautiful patient-physician relationship. I don't know how to change that, but it does then put in roadblock for timely treatment and things that we can and can't do for the patient's health. We shouldn't need to do a pr prior authorization on medications that are shown to decrease morbidity and mortality and are part of treatment algorithm, but that's where we're at. The other thing is that self-awareness. When I was in my first three years of practice trying to build a practice, I was really pedaled to the metal. The time to reflect and have that introspective look was very it was non-existent. I went until I had a break wall. And then life circumstances forced me to choose. And that that I think happens to to many of us. So for those busy in training or juggling multiple responsibilities, multiple roles, how do we create that? I have it now, but how do you create that introspective, that time?

Dr. Sherman:

I know it's different for everyone, for myself. For myself, I believe that I've always had this part of me that's been reflective, that's been looking at what's happening to me from the outside and really benefiting from having close friendships with other people that could reflect back to me the qualities and gifts that I had. So that to me was something that I was aware of at an earlier age. It wasn't always cultivated, though. And I was fortunate enough to have one very good friend who encouraged me to start journaling during medical school. And that journaling process during a time of grief that I was under from loss of my parents really helped me to relate my experiences going through my parents' illnesses as a college student and my experiences as a medical student in the hospital as a provider and reflecting on those experiences and how they compared. And then that set me into that framework. So I think, which then continued with all different forms of self-reflection, whether that be coaching, therapy, journaling, talking to friends, meditation, community work, all kinds of things. So I think it's those practices that can be cultivated earlier on. Now, if you're already at a certain point, and then many of the clients I work with as a coach, they say, Oh, I used to journal, I tried it a couple of times, it doesn't really work for me. And then I'll usually say, That's not the be-all end all for some people. So we try different things and see, but it's just a matter of starting to just be aware, spending a small amount of time each day, maybe looking back on one thing that brought you some joy, one thing that was an experience that you felt, a sense of excitement or a sense of peace, and then understanding what what resonated inside of you with that experience. Was there a value that really was manifested in that experience? Was there a need that was filled through that experience? Was there an interaction? Was there something that truly touched you? And then being more observant of those things. And I think you can do this in small amounts of time. You don't need to have an hour of meditation a day. You don't need to write volumes of journals and things like that. It's what works for you at each stage of your life. In my medical career, I had a stage where I was single alone for a long time. And I had stage where I was married with no kids, and then I had stage where I had the little tiny kids, and I had stages where I was in other countries and here and there. And so life brings you different situations and scenarios, and being able to be present to yourself and all of those and compassionate toward yourself is important.

Dr. Shah-Haque:

So once some once somebody, a practitioner, a clinician, a provider starts to develop that or even hone that skill further of self-reflection, self-awareness, then they can take it to the next level of discernment. Is this the right fit for now? And you know, that I have found that in my career, depending on what the structure looks like, that's gonna change how I assess or what type of answers I give. I have found that my answers now are much different than 10 years ago prior to kids, prior to the pandemic, prior to the changes that we've seen. And I think that goes along with the idea of having this be a vocation and having this be, well, with the amazing patient-physician relationships, like you mentioned, the intimacy, the things that we see and hear. It's we have to be aware of where we're at. And if what we're doing clinically, or not necessarily clinically, but as our livelihood, if that is not something that we see as I want to get up every day and do this, and I can see myself doing this for five, ten years from now, then it's a good time to maybe look at other opportunities.

Dr. Sherman:

Yeah. I think this is a difference, I think, these days than it was in the past. When I finished my medical training was in the 1980s, and at that time I had and I was training in Virginia, and I remember getting phone calls as a my second year of residency, of a three-year residency program in pediatric, and getting phone calls from small town practices in Virginia asking me to be a member of their practice and be there. And all the members of their practice had been there forever. And so the idea of switching and moving jobs uh was not something that physicians did a lot back in the day. And I think nowadays the idea that if I am working somewhere and I've given it an opportunity and I have gone through the very challenging transition period where I may have been doing something completely different, like in residency where you're in the hospital all the time, versus being in a primary care practice where you rarely go to the hospital these days. And now you need some time to adjust and you have to understand: is this just a transition period? Is it just adjustment? Are there still elements there that really draw me in that have the potential down the road to really be rewarding? Do I need some patience and persistence, which you've been through medical training, you've made it all the way through, you have the ability to do? Or am I just spinning my wheels? Am I going downhill? Am I heading in the wrong direction? For me, my first job out of residency, I was definitely headed in the wrong direction. And I knew even before I probably started that job that it was a bad fit. But it got me to where I wanted to be. It got me to the place back in my hometown in Washington, D.C., where I wanted to practice. It wasn't the right fit, it wasn't the right job for me. But it was interesting that as a result of taking that job that was not the right fit, it then opened opportunities for me to move into a job that was a much better fit, which would involve teaching and community work and variety of that, which then really opened up who I was to what I did. So every job, and as I work with clients, with coaching clients, I say every experience you have is a learning experience, whether it's challenging and taught you something about yourself, about your own resilience and your own gifts and talents and directions that you want to take, or whether it was a great fit. It all teaches you something. And the key is learning from that and making your next move an informed move. It's not always perfect. And again, like I say, your life changes. So you you may need a different fit later on. It's having the courage and the willpower to make that change and make that move, knowing that you will end up on your feet eventually on the other side.

Dr. Shah-Haque:

I agree. And I also think that we underestimate the skills that we have developed that got us into medical school through medical school and our training. They're quite adaptable. They're quite adaptable in many areas. Just the our ability to make difficult decisions under pressure can be applied in multiple areas of life. Now, mind you, I've also had self-doubt and what I've made transitions, just you really don't know until you get in there and you're working at the place. But for the most part, the transitions that I have made through life have been the right fit at the right time. But and there's there's some that there's some physicians that they're at the same practice or they're in private practice and they've done so for several years, and that's rate. And when I first came out of residency, I thought that was the defining situation for a physician. But almost 15 years now in post-medical school, I'm finding that even through these conversations like this, everybody has a story, and you cannot paint the medical profession with the same with a wide rush stroke. There is there are non-clinical jobs which are phenomenal. And you know what, they need physicians. It's okay if you're if you've practiced for 20 years, you want to go non-clinical. And it's okay if you come out of residency, you go non-clinical. It's there's so much variety in ability to pivot, but even into non-clinical work like what you do with coaching and retreats. Now, now tell me more about that, because this is something that I see more and more physicians doing. And I think it's a great idea for physicians to get in there and to lead these things because who knows better than what a physician needs than another physician?

Dr. Sherman:

First, I do want to comment on this idea of what skills we as physicians obtain through our training and everything, because I do have individual coaching clients who come to me and think, I've gotten to the point where clinical medicine no longer appeals to me, perhaps. And I've given it a shot, I've tried, I've done, and I've come a long way, but I'm at a point in my life or I've discovered something where this is not for me. But then they say, But what do I know how to do? I can hardly fix the sink when it's leaking, or can't I have no practical skill, something like that. And I say to them, if you were to write your actual skills, your actual qualifications for any job, and you talk about how you are a teacher, a problem solver, a counselor, a you have Manual dexterity from doing procedures, you have management skills, you have leadership skills, you have all of these skills that can be transferred to a number of different professions and jobs. So it's a matter of opening your eyes and seeing that. And if you think about how the general public views physicians as is changing now because of a lot of things, internet and a lot of different changes in society. But traditionally, and I still think this is true, people look on physicians as trusted people that they can listen to and believe in. So I think that you do have transferable skills to many other professions. As far as my own journey about working with other physicians and health providers together, I think a lot of it stems from the things in my practice in various different settings that really brought me excitement and helped me to feel like I truly belonged. The same procedure I take with my one-on-one coaching client. And it was when I worked with medical teams and I worked with a group of people, we had a common mission that we all bought into, that we all valued each other's contribution to achieving that mission. That whether you were a physician, a nurse practitioner, a receptionist, an MA, whoever you were, an administrator, a manager, all of us worked as a team to try to achieve that common mission. When that occurs, for me, I feel like someone always has my back, that it's not always just up to me. Those were the situations that I thrived in. Whether that was a pediatric mobile clinic serving residents of public housing in DC, whether that was a medical team treating women and children with HIV in Uganda, whether it was part of an Salud Integral team in Bolivia serving indigenous people in the altiplano of the Andes Mountains with education and community education and economic education and support for families and those who were victims of domestic violence, along with training health promoters, all kinds of different things together. These were the times that I felt I thrived. And and so taking that and those experiences and then going back into a system where I was just told, see the patients, get through the day, make it. And then I contrasted those feelings and what it did to my body, physically, spiritually, emotionally. And I was like, I can't, I can't do this thing when I know it's this other thing. And so how do I help other professionals, other healthcare providers discover what is their thing? How do I help them do that? I was at a point in my life where I didn't have the energy, the capacity to go back to being that director or medical director of that team and put in all that time. But I wanted other people who, if that was their dream or if something else was their dream, I wanted to help them that are real. So that's where individual coaching and working with those teams, those medical teams, to help them support each other and see the gifts and talents of each other and help bring those two for together as a team. That really brings me excitement, it brings me joy, it brings me fulfilled. So that's how I ended up discovering this about myself and then looking back and go, gosh, this is something I've always wanted. And so now I get to do it.

Dr. Shah-Haque:

That's really cool. And I like the fact that you pointed out you you can feel the difference. You can feel the difference how you felt in those different environments. And that really goes back to having that personal insight and discernment. And those are words and skills that I had been brought up with, but I had abandoned in the past, unfortunately. Pick them back up over the last few years, but even more so over the last year. And vocation, discernment. I never want those to be away from my life again just because the art of discernment is not just about the religious part of life, but I think through all aspects of life, it's something that we forget about and it's an art. It's an art that needs to be practiced like anything else. But I could see your facial expression, expressions when you were discussing it. And I hope that our colleagues and those listening can can have that gift of discernment and the ability to pivot or at least to evaluate like a quarterly evaluation. Am I still on the track that I want to be? And is the track that I have chosen currently still meeting my needs, not just financial, but physical, emotional, and spiritual. Because when one overwhelms, one box overwhelms, it can be and pushes everything else aside and sometimes leads us astray. Not that we can't come back to center and but it's a longer road and it's it can be expensive, not necessarily financially, but time, emotions, the time of the day that we put in and also our energy.

Dr. Sherman:

Yes. And for me, that's where self-compassion comes in. That's where it's we come into our medical training somewhat innocently, believing that if we have this desire to help, if we have this sense of a calling to be there for other people, regardless of what form that takes, from being a primary care physician in an office to being some researcher in a lab, whatever it might be in any direction, I believe all of us come into the training, hoping that we can be of service. And then we go into the system that teaches us this is the way you do that. And these are the rules, this is the culture, this is the belief system, this is the curriculum that we're going to indoctrinate you with. And then we lose ourselves in that in a bit because to survive and to move on to the next level, we have to please whoever it is that's writing the evaluation, who's giving us the grade, whatever it is. It's very subjective. Very so being able to hold on to a part of us that is essential. And sometimes we lose that. We lose that as we go through because we're trying to survive, get through, and that's okay. You have to have compassion for yourself for surviving, for being able to get through that. It's trying to pick up on the other end and say, okay, who am I? I went through this experience. Now, how do I get back to who I truly am? What have I learned about myself during the experience that I didn't know before? And how do I get the help and support I need to be my authentic self? Because I've gotten into this habit and this mode of whether it's people pleasing or hypervigilance or imposter syndrome, whatever it might be, try to make myself look like I belong, is to try to find someone, some method form to get more in touch with who I truly, and then find where that fit through that.

Dr. Shah-Haque:

You're absolutely right. And one thing I would love to see is a period of debriefing, like after residency or even after X amount and post-residency, not necessarily fellowship, but fellowship after formal training, three-year mark, five-year mark. And I think that it would give a lot of good insight, not just to the individuals, but even to employers to train to training programs, to residency and fellowship programs, because you're the mentality with which we go through medical school and residency, and this is not the first time I've said this thing, but the way that we are taught and the way that medicine is practiced in the real world are completely different. It's on in in residency, we focus on learning the disease processes. I understand that, but we also learn about the patient. We learn about the family and the we get to know people at bedside. And in corporate medicine, we don't have that ability because of the time constraints. I don't agree with it, but that's just the way it is. And it's a big challenge to move from one mindset to the other. And it's easy to drink that Kool-Aid and not remember why someone first went into medicine. Speaking from experience, and I'm glad life threw some curveballs and made me pause. It was necessary. I don't like the circumstances that had uh under which it happened. Mom had a major stroke, but Sylvan Lining was a blessing. It was a blessing. That's one thing I do try to teach my students and my residents.

Dr. Sherman:

Yeah, what I mean, what an amazing idea to have practice 101 or life 101, life beyond residency 101. Something where we actually have a program to say, okay, for the last whatever 10 years or more of your life, whatever, you've been in a little bit of a vacuum, you've been in a bubble, and you perhaps have seen your friends and family members move on in life, and you've been in this isolation war during that. So let's be gentle with ourselves. Let's learn some skills of self-compassion. Let's learn some skills of awareness. Let's learn some some skills of self-care and catch up on our social and personal development that we've missed. That would be wonderful. I think that's something that I would love to take and mark into the world and say, hey, let's give people a good head start as they head off. Because I know for me, I felt like I was a babe in the woods. I was wandering around trying to figure out how do I do this thing, this life practice thing.

Dr. Shah-Haque:

I agree. I agree with that. I think that one of the biggest things that I had was a well-seasoned internist that showed me the ropes, if you will. I also had mentors in Wichita from where I went to medical school and pro did my residency. I still keep in touch. But I think without that mentorship, I would have been even more lost. I would like to see more mentorship. But if that's not possible, if the the briefing is not possible, the mentorship is not always there. Coaching is an excellent tool, not just if those things are missing, but even in addition to not just for self-reflection, but for self-growth. And it's a great external compass. And that's one thing I like about our organization, Physicians Anonymous, that it literally is you register, you show up, and it is open to physicians, residents, and medical students. You can use a pseudonym. You don't have to have your camera on. It's completely anonymous. There is pure support available. So it's not a unnecessarily a debriefing, but it is peer support is available.

Dr. Sherman:

Yes. And I know for those of you who don't know that both Sapna and I are both facilitator, physicians anonymous groups that need every week an opportunity for physicians and residents, medical students, those in training, those who are in practice, those who want to share their stories of the struggles, the joys, the challenges of what practicing medicine brings. And the dark times, and I've been through many dark times, and unfortunately, my my family has been through some of those times also with me and have seen me through the other end. It's wonderful. But just the having a courageous space to share those stories without judgment, without people trying to say, Oh, it's all going to be fine, don't worry about it, or oh, if you just do this, you'll be much better off. Just to have compassionate listening voices to say, it's okay, tell us your story. We've a lot of your story resonates with my story. And perhaps I've been afraid that I was alone and the only one that went through an experience. I felt anxious, I felt depressed, I felt suicidal, I felt like this was the end. And and here's someone else that got to that same point. And we made it through. And we made it to the other side, or we're trying to get to the other side. And people who are in all different phases of a process of trying to learn about themselves and trying to make it through challenging times. I find that it one of the things that helps me as a facilitator just as much as the people who participate, who come. It's a great opportunity. I think a great free service for physicians to join in.

Dr. Shah-Haque:

Yes, and it is free. And the website, the link will be in the show notes to actually go sign up and check out one of these groups. There are multiple meetings throughout the week, and they are, I think, pretty the timing throughout the week covers different time zones, and it's not just for those based in the US, it's you know, open to those globally. We have multiple physicians from around the world and facilitators from multiple geographic locations. So I really love the fact that it is that it reaches globally. And I point this out because the things that we're discussing are not just here in the US health system.

Dr. Sherman:

Yeah, we it's I think it's remarkable to me that with all the dysfunction that our healthcare system does have here in the United States, that many of the experiences are common across the globe of physicians who who experience this sense of isolation, the sense of uh being alone within an increasingly complex technological world that we have to live in and with communication accelerating, access to information accelerating, access to us accelerating. So it's really helpful to have a space that we can feel like we are with people who know us.

Dr. Shah-Haque:

Joe, what is one last pearl of wisdom you would like to leave our listeners?

Dr. Sherman:

I think in this season right now that we're in, I feel I feel it's really essential to be kind to yourself. The only way to be kind to other people is to be kind to yourself first. And I know it's a cliche about putting your oxygen mask on first, but I've been someone who's was taught as a young kid and reinforced all my adult life to put others first and to self-sacrifice and to always defer defer. And I would say that I still feel like life of service is something I've always been called to. And yet I believe that it is essential to take care of yourself, be kind to yourself, love yourself in ways that allow you to then be present to other people as authentically and as fully as you can. So, whatever you can do, take a moment to ask yourself, how do I feel right now, emotionally, spiritually, physically, and what do I need? What do I need right now? And how can I bring that to myself so that I can be there for other people?

Dr. Shah-Haque:

That's beautiful. And thank you for saying that. So, to those listening, you have permission and a very strong recommendation to do that. Take time, of course, when you're not driving, but take time and just assess how are you feeling in this moment mentally, physically, spiritually, and emotionally. And if you would like to check out a physician's anonymous group, click on the link and sign up for a meeting. It's of no cost. You don't have to say anything if you don't want to. You can just sit and listen and just know that you're not alone. Know that there are other physicians out there who are willing to support you no matter what, in a non-judgmental space. And then, Joe, what is the best way to for those to for listeners to get in contact with you and learn more about your coaching and your retreat?

Dr. Sherman:

Thanks so much, Sapna. Mostly through my website, which is joshermanmd.com. It's just my name, joshermanmd.com. And on there are the programs that I offer for coaching and for retreat facilitation, as well as working with organizations. There are podcast appearances, there's blogs I've written, and and you can schedule a free consultation to talk about your situation, whether coaching is a good pathway for support, or whether there is another resource that I might be helpful for you. Or you can email me directly, Joe at joshermanmd.com. I'd be happy to answer any questions.

Dr. Shah-Haque:

Thank you for that, and that'll be in the show notes as well. So, Joe, I've really enjoyed our conversation. It's been a long time coming, so thank you very much for your time and Merry Christmas to you and your family. Thank you so much for having me stop. Thanks for tuning in to another episode from the Worthy Physician Podcast. If you enjoyed this episode, be sure to subscribe, leave a review, and share it with someone who'd love it too. Don't forget to follow us on YouTube, LinkedIn, Instagram for more updates and insights. Until next time, keep inspiring, learning, growing, and living your best life.