Katie The Traveling Lactation Consultant
Katie The Traveling Lactation Consultant
Ep. 23 Dr Trill from Free to Feed
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Having a baby with multiple food sensitivities is painful and exhausting. In this episode, Dr Trill discusses her journey from PhD doing ovarian cancer research to allergy mom then breastmilk allergy detector kit developer/CEO of Free to Feed. Dr Trill is doing the most amazing (and some of the only research in this area) research for allergen detection in breastmilk to help families understand how to help their babies eat without pain. She also started Free to Feed to be a source of education and support for allergy families. Follow Dr Trill with Free to Feed on Instagram.
Podcast host: Katie Oshita, RN, BSN, IBCLC has over 22 years of experience working in Maternal-Infant Medicine. Katie is a telehealth lactation consultant believing that clients anywhere in the world deserve the best care possible for their needs. Being an expert on TOTs, Katie helps families everywhere navigate breastfeeding struggles, especially tongue tie and gut/allergy related issues. Email katie@cuddlesandmilk.com or www.cuddlesandmilk.com
Disclaimer, this content is meant for information only and not as a diagnosis or medical treatment for any condition. If you or a left one needs help, please seek out a qualified medical professional for assistance. Welcome to the podcast. I'm your host, Katie Ostadt, BSN, RN, IBCLC, and infant feeding specialist. Quench your thirst for knowledge and travel with me across the nation to discover, learn, collaborate, and better serve clients from all over the globe. Let's ride and thrive together. On the podcast today, we have Dr. Trill Pollin, a molecular biologist and mother to two beautiful daughters who had severe infant food reactions to proteins transferred from her diet to breast milk. After processing the painful fact that she could hurt her children through breastfeeding, she started researching how to produce breast milk they could properly digest. Dr. Trill discovered that many parents experience the same troubling situation. She wanted to create a place for parents to find answers to their questions about infant food reactivity and empower them to reach their feeding goals. Free to Feed was born to provide research, resources, and support she wished that they had had early on. They've started the mission by creating an annual subscription to empower parents through their food allergy journey tracking app built specifically for this space, personal consultations, as well as allergy-friendly postnatal multivitamin. Free to Feed's team is working hard towards launching an at-home test strip that will allow parents to analyze their breast milk for allergens. Please welcome Dr. Trill to the podcast. So we were just talking about how your journey in life just takes us in these incredibly different directions than we think of. I mean, I will tell people too that if you had told me, you know, five years ago that I would be living in an RV, traveling the country, podcasting and homeschooling my kids, I would have wanted to know if you just escaped the hospital or something. I'm like, this was not in my plan. I mean, it really, really was. And I've always wanted to travel. You know, my husband and I have been together 25 years and we had talked about this a long time ago, but really never talked about doing it like this with kids and everything else. So life just completely changes. I mean, when you think back to before you started where you are now with free to feed and everything, what was your plan pre-kids? Like where were you at?
SPEAKER_00Yeah. So what's fascinating is exactly as you mentioned, if somebody had told me um, you know, seven or eight years ago that I'd be running my own biotech company um focused on breast melt research, I would have laughed hysterically. So I really truly wanted to go into cancer research. And so I was in cancer research. I worked in a lab as an undergraduate. And then I um had an internship at uh Moffitt Cancer Center in Tampa, Florida for um about six months before I got into a PhD program at University of South Florida. And I spent the four years in that program focused on ovarian cancer research and specifically the protein analysis and manipulation in order to help ovarian cancer patients be able to be retreated with the chemotherapy they had already been given. So often after we have a certain type of cancer and we have a certain type of drug that we're given, that drug, most often than not, won't work again if we represent with that particular cancer. And so I loved my job. I will say that like grad school wasn't my favorite thing in the world. It would be weird if uh grad school was my favorite. Um, but I truly, truly loved doing um what we call benchwork, like working at the bench, making little tumors and spheroids. Like it was so cool. And then in my last year of grad school, that's when we started our family, and it truly changed the trajectory of my life. So we I was writing my dissertation, we had our oldest daughter, and that moment of us going down this journey that would lead to finding out that she had food allergies was like the first pivot in my journey. And then the second pivot was when our second daughter was born and she had the same issue. And I kind of popped my head out of the sand and was like, okay, where's the the researchers and the science and all of the all of the things to help me navigate this journey again? And I didn't find any resources, all I found were fellow families, and I never would have guessed that that would have led me to starting my own company, which was never the birth goal. And I will say I've learned a lot in the last almost four years now. But you're 100% correct. It's not something that I expected and it's not what I had planned, but I it's so incredibly fulfilling and I love what I do today.
SPEAKER_02It is unbelievable how life can just change and take us in totally different directions than we had planned. But obviously, this is where you were meant to me and where you were meant to be. There is such lacking research in breast milk. I mean, I know that no one, no one like you can know this as well. It's just astounding how much we know about dairy milk in this country and how little we know about human breast milk. Like this is our first food.
SPEAKER_00I totally agree. I totally agree. And um, an extra like side irony is that I actually worked for a dairy processing facility for three years before and while I was starting free to feed. And that was part of this journey that was getting to the point of saying, like, oh wow, like how in the world do we test cow's milk for cross-contamination of other allergens, but we can't test human milk for transferred allergens? Like, like, how are we doing this for cows, but we're not doing this for women? And, you know, the the answer to that question, if we can be frank, is that men don't lactate. And the lack of research as it relates to human breast milk is fascinating because exactly as you mentioned, it's our first nutrient. It is our first um substance. And the fact that we as a society have not prioritized fully understanding it and studying it and supporting it and empowering families to breastfeed if they choose to is is quite quite astounding.
SPEAKER_02I think we've kind of bounced back and forth in this country on, you know, the from bottles to breast is best to fed is best to kind of all over the place. And now we're in this place of, you know, people don't want to don't want to assume or offend or anything either. And you never ever want to make anyone feel bad because how you feed your child is always your choice of how you feed your child. And I have clients who breastfeed, I have clients who bottle feed, I have clients who do both. I have no preference how they choose to feed their child, but I do feel like it's a very big issue when we don't have support for those who choose to breastfeed and are not able to, and we cannot really offer them any more, then well, we don't really know.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, I totally agree. And um, same situation. I work with so many families and every type of feeding style. So exclusively breastfed, exclusively formula fed, and everything in between. And truly the saddest part about it is one, as we mentioned, the the lack of research to fully understand all of the nuances for breastfeeding and breast milk in order to properly support it. And then two, the fact that parents are not loved and given the empathy that they need and deserve in order to make the next feeding choices. So families being, you know, shamed because they say that they want to continue breastfeeding, even though their baby has food allergic responses. Um, I know for myself, I literally was in the hospital with my oldest daughter and didn't know yet what was going on with her, other than she was bleeding profusely rectally, and she had awful, awful eczema. And a health professional walked into our hospital room and I was feeding her because that's what you do when a baby is hungry. You get out my boop and I fed her. And so I was feeding her, and this medical provider walked in and gasped and said, I cannot believe that you are poisoning your baby. And I just, and then that was just the beginning. That was just the beginning of like these feelings of, you know, am I doing the right thing? Am I hurting my child? Why am I not being supported? Why isn't there more um help and resources and research here? And just so much disappointment that then led to quite frankly, you know, me making decisions just based on my instincts, which I totally support families through today, like, you know, okay, let's let's talk about how you feel about all this. And then, you know, kind of just putting my head down and getting it done. And what that meant for me for my first journey with my oldest was going on a really strict elimination diet for nearly a year. And it had a lot of impact on me mentally, physically. Um, I'm still dealing with issues with my dental health because I wasn't supported and didn't focus on me and like my nutrient intake. And so the fact that families are going through this largely blind and and unsupported is really it's egregious.
SPEAKER_02It is very, very true. And I'm so sorry you went through that. I mean, that's just no no provider should have said that to you. But you were right that it does happen. It happened to you, and it happens all over the place. And I've had I've had those clients where we cannot figure out what's going on with this baby and why, you know, what it's reacting to, and we've done all these different things. And it feels like the answer is is very clearly from medical professionals either switch to hyperallogenic formula or put the baby on these meds that are not FDA proof for infants and do have serious side effects and risks. And those two are pretty much the answers. And like, that's not the answer. That's you know, breast milk is still what we're meant to have. I think the problem is we're not addressing our general true health to begin with, right? We're not in this allopathic medical medical system, we're not really looking at wellness, right? So a lot of the clients I see that have babies dealing with issues, the moms weren't, their biomes were not in great shape to begin with, right?
SPEAKER_00Yeah, I I totally agree. I totally agree. And that's that's the unfortunate piece is that just as you mentioned, there's a lot of band-aiding, meaning we're giving medications to band-aid issues, everything from band-aiding, you know, reflux with PPI medications to band-aiding eczema with steroids and everything in between. We're giving these band-aids instead of determining the root cause. And truly, you know, if we can be up front, that's what a hypoallergenic formula is too. It's a band-aid to the root cause of the problem. Instead of determining this is exactly what's eliciting a response for your child, we're just going to switch to a hypoallergenic formula that is significantly broken down in hopes that they can tolerate it and that they're it will fly under the radar of the immune system. But we're not actually identifying what the issue is and improving the problem. We're just, we're just pivoting and we're just shifting to this kind of band-aid solution, which is quite frankly the easy route. And that's just as you mentioned, the way that our healthcare system works is that it is in a you know quick, quick 15-minute um appointment, the answer is almost always what is the easiest route to placating uh the patient. And so that looks like giving a medication because that's the quickest route, as opposed to you know spending months or weeks, depending on the situation, really determining exactly what's what is the thing that's eliciting a response, or what are the things we need to do to add to the diet to improve the gastrointestinal health of both mom and baby. So, um, and that's long and it takes time and it takes support and love and empathy. And that's not something that we can do in a 15-minute well-check visit at a six-month appointment.
SPEAKER_02Right. I think there's just such a flaw in the way our whole healthcare system functions that you're right, all we're doing is band-aiding. And we're calling things diagnoses that are really symptoms. I mean, reflex and colic and these are symptoms of a bigger issue. This baby is literally trying to tell you what's wrong as best as they possibly can. And we just write a prescription or tell the parents that it'll go away. Eventually they'll outgrow it. Just go home now. And then it's like the box is checked off and the doctor can move on. And yet that family is still there going, but that didn't help. I didn't get any answers. I don't know what to do.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, yeah. Or the band-aid makes it worse. Um, and and I see that often too. Um, I I totally agree. And I think that that's certainly an interesting like line that I have to walk as far as being in the middle of not being a medical provider, right? I'm a PhD, I'm a researcher and now uh a CEO. Um, and so how do we utilize this kind of broken system that we currently have in order to provide the data for families? And so as I like navigated this journey myself with two babies and then talked to thousands of families, the the answer to like, how do we fix all this misinformation? How do we fix the fact that we're just band-aiding these problems and not helping families get the root cause? How do we fix this broken system? Was for me to put the power into the family's hands, give them the data, give them the information that they need and support them. Um, and so that's what led us to what we're working on right now, which is today we offer, you know, one-on-one consults to help educate families on exactly what's happening in their body and baby's body in order to support them through finding that root cause. Like we are actually going to help you determine that your baby is reactive to eggs so that we can help you with your next steps and help empower you to continue your feeding journey. But in the longer scheme of things, like I really truly feel like I can stand on the top of every mountain and shout at the top of my lungs about the misinformation that's shared in the space. That's quite frankly a whole lot of fear-mongering about how long proteins are in your breast or what type of reactivity your baby has, or can you breastfeed, or that your baby's allergic to your breast milk. So I feel like I can I can go to the top of every mountain and shout to the at the top of my lungs. But what would be more powerful than that is if I just gave the information and power to the family, if I just gave them a test strip at home that would give them the answers to like these are the things that are in your breast at any given moment. Because the reason that formula is so much easier is because it tells you what's in it. There's a little ingredient deck on the back of the can that says these are the things that's in it. So if your baby has a reaction to it, you can say, Okay, these are the ingredients. I need to go find another formula that doesn't have X, Y, or Z in it. So if you could have an ingredient deck for the breast, you can do the same thing. You can say, Okay, when I was feeding and this was in my boob, these are the things that this is the reaction I saw. So, based on correlation, what's likely causing an issue? And by giving families that information and that data, we can remove the mystery of what's in the boob. We can remove the misinformation about like if I eat a piece of cheese today, it's going to be in my breast weeks from now, because that doesn't even conceptually make sense, but that is the standard that most families are told. I was also told. So it's removing all of that mystery. And it's silly that it's not something that, like you said, already exists. You know, I can right now go and test my dog for a plethora of issues through a urinalysis, literally in the comfort of my own home, but I can't do the same for navigating a food allergy issue, which is a much more serious situation. And there's a lot of reasons why that's the case. And I'm I'm excited to bring to market and something that can change the tides on like these journeys for families.
SPEAKER_02I think it's going to do so much in that. I think that you're right that unfortunately our medical system is just not set up to do root cause, right? Unfortunately, with these 15-minute appointments, there's no chance for a root cause analysis. Like that's where functional med comes in, but functional med is not accessible to everyone. Not at all. I mean, it's they're usually cash pay, and then there's all the labs and everything else to do, and it becomes an expensive thing that is not accessible to everyone, right? I'm thankful for my clients who have been able to work with a naturopath or a functional med, but unfortunately it's not going to be everyone. And it's it reminds me of what we're doing also in the tongue tie space of trying to empower the parents to have the knowledge because they do, they go out and they get told, well, you know, if the baby can stick out its tongue, or, you know, I don't see a tongue tie, or it's only a little one, it won't matter, it'll stretch, it'll rip, all these ridiculous things. And so I spend a lot of time trying to empower parents to know the truth so that they can then it's not so much about changing their pediatrician's mind, because that's really not going to happen unless the unless the pediatrician is open to it and wants to hear more information and learn. But it's really just so that the parents can empower themselves to find the providers to help them on their path, right? And that's what you're doing here is by giving them the information, they can use it to find someone to help them through navigate this journey or navigate it themselves if they feel empowered and able to do it. But it's it's a lot of work. And I've been through my own food elimination stuff in the last almost year and a half now. And it's only for myself, I'm not nursing, and I can't, I can't imagine doing this as a new parent as well. It is exhausting. There have been times through this year and a half where I've literally said to people, they're like, What can you eat? And I'm like, Well, no, they'll say, What can't you eat? And I'll like my list of what I can eat is shorter. So how about if we go there? Like I can so little at times.
SPEAKER_00It's so uh frustrating and and interesting. And I appreciate that you're kind of on this journey right now for your own health to like really be able to wrap your brain around how food is integral to our entire culture, right? And our our lives. And so um not being able to freely eat, to be free to feed. Um to give my little plug there. Um, not to be able to eat freely impacts every aspect of our lives. And and I've also been on elimination diets for like my own health as well. I have my own GI issues, as does my husband. And what's interesting, the extra like um piece to it here that a lot of people don't understand too, is that when you're going through this journey and you're doing an elimination diet for yourself, if you accidentally eat something or if you purposely decide you're I'm gonna have that piece of pizza, the impact is on yourself and your own body, right? And so, like you're making a decision or not, right? You're you're accidentally consuming something, you're not making a decision. Someone else is taking that decision away from you. And it's not you that gets impacted, it's your baby and it's your newborn most often. And so the amount of shame and guilt and stress that that creates of like something that I put into my own body could hurt my child, is just not understood well enough and not empathized enough. I can't tell you the number of times that I've just stood in the kitchen and stared at the refrigerator and cried because I'm like, I'm scared, right? I'm scared to eat something. And there's so much mental stress and on top of already having a newborn, right? It's already like literally the most stressful time that you will ever experience in your life, most likely. And I will be the first one to admit it. I have, I've I've been in the military for almost 17 years now, and I deployed to Iraq and been to a combat zone. And I would, I could tell you from my own experience that like I would do that over and over and over again over having to navigate food allergies and breastfeeding and seeing my child in pain. The level of like PTSD that I have because of these food allergy journeys that I had with my daughters um well outweighs all of the things that I've experienced in the military because it's not me and my safety and my health. It's my child's. And it's so stressful. And it's everywhere, right? If you can't just stop by somewhere and grab a quick bite. You um the conversations with other people is very frustrating because they don't get it, right? And um, you hit it right on the head when you were like, it's easier for me to tell you the things I can eat than the things that I can't, because that list is shorter.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, and it's it is overwhelming. It is isolating, it's frustrating. I mean, I can't tell you how many times I've been to a family function or out with friends or something, and I'll I'll bring food, right? Because I'm like, I've been doing really good. I've had like two weeks since I've had any accidents, any accidental exposures. I'm like on a good track. I'm feeling good. I'm gonna bring my own food. And I bring my own food and they look at me and they're like, this is weird. Why don't you just take a pill or something? Like, why are you doing this? Like this clearly doesn't work. And this is so stupid. And I'm like, wow, you guys are super empowering me. Like this feels great. You know, and it's, I think people just don't understand. And we do also have a culture to some degree in this country of just take a pill and fix it and don't do all this ridiculous work. Like I've heard that many a times because I'm doing mine for chronic pain and autoimmune issues. And they're like, aren't there some meds you could take? And I'm like, probably. They might or might not work, but they definitely come with side effects. And what's the point in taking a medication if I'm still regularly putting something in my body that's irritating my body? Like, yeah, that's not fixing it. That is totally not going to fix it. So I have to figure out what's upsetting my body and take it out. And it sounds really simple and it's really, really not. And I think that's something that from the outside, when someone says that, I mean, when I first thought it, I was like, okay, so I do the testing, I take the food out, and then I reintroduce later, and then I'm fine. I don't think I understood how that's like the clip notes version of like reading your odyssey.
SPEAKER_01Yes. Exactly.
SPEAKER_02There's so much more in between those sections of like, okay, you take it out, but then you put it back in, but then you take it out again, but then you put it back in, but then you take it out, and now you can do that, but you can't do the combination of A, B, and C.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, yeah. It's a lot, it's a lot. And so, and the number of resources and and researchers actually diving into that to really understand what that looks like, and uh what that looks like as it relates to two different bodies, right? Like what's happening in mom's body or the parent's body and baby's body, two different things and two different systems, and at the same time, just is not being supported and researched. And so that's what like we're really focused on is like, okay, what exactly is happening in the lactane parent's body? What's happening in baby's body? Why are we dealing with these reactivity issues through breast milk? And I think it's really important in here, too, to mention that us transferring these foods is totally normal and healthy. So we're supposed to, you're supposed to eat peanuts and have them transfer to your breast. We are built to do that. You are supposed to transfer small portions of the foods that you eat to your breast to feed and expose your baby to these foods. It is a good thing biologically and the research supports that. And so there's nothing wrong with you if you're transferring these foods. You're supposed to. But when we're seeing these issues in baby, two different things have to happen at the same time. Not only do you transfer these particular portions of these foods, but your baby is reactive to that portion of that protein that we transfer. And so the stars have to align. Two different things have to happen in two completely different bodies. And so it's important to mention that too, in that nothing has to be wrong, quote unquote, with the lactating parent in order for us to have these issues. And I think a really good kind of example that's very similar to what you're mentioning of like, well, just take a pill and just you know, truck on, is um, for example, when we're talking about littles who have um eczema. So it's really common that, like, for example, the most common foods that will cause eczema and a crustating baby is cow's milk, soy, and egg. Most often um we find egg is the issue. And what we'll see then is that the family is not supported through an elimination diet. Instead, they're just given creams and steroids. But it's not healthy or normal or natural to be giving your baby a steroid cream every week or every couple of days, and to continue to keep the immune system in this heightened state of activity and reactivity to let's say me eating egg every morning, transferring that and baby reacting to that, and then me just placating that reactivity. The reactivity is still happening, right? I'm just band-aiding the actual eczema response. And there's so many impacts long-term to the immune system continuously react being reactive, to the skin barrier being broken between. So, like our skin is literally the barrier between the environment and our immune system. And so for that to continuously be broken and for us to just continue to try to put steroids on it to heal it all the time. And then the other piece that, you know, I don't think it gets talked about enough is the discomfort for baby. And I'm sure you can relate to this too. There's this discomfort for you. Like, yeah, could you take a pill and maybe it would make it better? Maybe, but would it actually make it better? And would it make it all the way better as opposed to just taking out the problem? And, you know, what are the the bigger implications? For example, a baby who is reactive, they're they're probably gonna be itchy, they're gonna be scratchy. I remember my oldest scratching so much that I was like in tears, worried that she was going to have scars for the rest of her life. I was like, my baby's gonna be scarred for the rest of her life because she keeps scratching, and it doesn't matter how short I keep these little fingernails, and I remember, you know, the sleep disturbances, right? Because she just she's uncomfortable and so she's not sleeping, she's inconsolable. And I remember putting, you know, the little mittens on her, even when she was older, quote unquote older when you quote unquote shouldn't put mittens on them anymore, and being told by people, like, well, you know, she's not gonna develop correctly because she keeps putting these mittens on her. And I'm like, she will gouge her face off. So I'm just gonna have to deal with that on the other side, and you can just go kick rocks because I do not care about your opinions. And eventually we got to the root cause. But if we hadn't and we just continued to use creams on her, then like that would have continued to be a problem. We would have continued to need some kind of either restraining system or cover for her hands, and it would have continued to be an issue instead of going and finding out, oh, if I eat eggs, she gets eczema. Okay, this is what we're gonna do next. And how do we support egg elimination? Instead of that, saying, oh, well, just you know, continue eating because either one families get told it's too hard. It's too hard to remove things, or they get told it's not possible, right? It's not possible for things that you eat to transfer to your breast and elicit a response in your baby and every plethora in between. And there's so much impact to that statement long term for these families, physically, mentally, and otherwise.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, I think you that point about the long-term effects of your body staying in that hyper state. Like we're covering it up with steroid creams or medication or things like that is not changing what's going on inside. And your body is staying in this hyper reactive, stressed out state. And we all know that stress isn't good for us. I think there's this general though that stress is bad for us, but it's not horrible. And I'm like, no, no, it's it's pretty horrible. It's horrible. It's pretty horrible. And it's the idea that these newborns are just gonna stay in that until they quote unquote just kind of outgrow it. It's just a very sad system to leave these new families in who are clearly struggling and just, I mean, it's the most basic thing to feed your child. And that's why, I mean, I see a ton of postpartum mood with mood and anxiety when I see clients and I do a lot of referring and a lot of support and listening, but it is very, very hard when you feel like you cannot feed your child. And that is something that you feel like you were, it's natural, you were expecting to do, you were planning and wanting. And then when you add in that you have the milk, but now you feel like your milk is somehow poisoning your child. That's a whole nother level of psychological warfare. I mean, that's just that's gotta be so hard for all of these families to go through and to just to not get any support is really brutal.
SPEAKER_00And I you you hit it right on the head. Um, I like to try to explain this to individuals who are not in the space, right? Like not in the lactation space or in the food allergy space, and try to explain it to them with my oldest daughter's journey to say, you know, I went from feeding my baby something that hurt her to not being able to afford to feed her at all because the hypoallergenic formula that she needed to go on was $50 a can. And we didn't qualify for any kind of like assistance. And we made just enough to not qualify, but not enough to like be able to afford. And as a grad student, I couldn't just go get another job. That's literally not allowed. And I was just completely crushed by the fact that, you know, this thing that was supposed to be easy, this thing that's supposed to be natural, this thing that, you know, everyone says to do was somehow hurtful to my child. There's so much shame and guilt around that. And then to be told that I wasn't going to get any support through continuing to breastfeed. And, you know, on my side of it, literally with my oldest being told, like, yeah, I mean, you can try to breastfeed, but we have no idea what she's reactive to. So you're gonna have to navigate it yourself. And here's just a laundry list of foods that could cause her these issues, and that's it. And in the moment, I really I didn't know any better. And I was scared. And we were in the hospital and she was, she was not doing well. And I just said, okay, I I'm gonna do this and I'm just gonna take all these things out and not understanding like any of the implications of that for me and my health. And that's that's truly unfortunate because I deserved to have somebody sit down with me and explain all of the implications. I deserved to have that medical provider tell me that I'm I'm doing a great job and um give me the support to make sure that my nutrition was um complete. I deserve to have the love and empathy that I was doing the right thing. And that's what we provide at Free to Feed today is like these families truly deserve to be told they're doing an amazing job because they are, and they're doing the best they can with the information that they've been given so far, and to give them community and love and support through their next steps because they they deserve all of those things.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, I can't even, oh, I can't even imagine doing it with a newborn. But I will say I was listening to this podcast the other day, it's a functional med podcast, and they had on a dietitian who does functional med along with the doctor, and she was saying that, you know, sometimes you have to balance the elimination diet and how much they need to have come out of their body to help them feel better and mental health. Because she said, if the elimination diet I'm gonna recommend has so few foods on it that it's literally gonna put them in this crazy high stress state, she said, it's not gonna do them any good, actually, because we all know what stress does to our body and how this is really gonna damage their immune system and put her more at risk. And it was like this light bulb. And I was like, wait, nobody ever said that to me. Nobody ever said, you know, well, don't overdo the elimination diet because it might be too stressful for you, too. And I probably, if I had, would have said, no, no, I'm fine because that's what I do. It's okay. It's okay. It is really stressful. And I think we don't really acknowledge the stress that these new parents go through when they are adjusting to parenting, they're sleep deprived, you know. And if we're talking about birthing parents, they've just been pregnant for 40 weeks and their body's still recovering from pregnancy and labor and childbirth. And now we're gonna take away nutrients and not only that, but just to add this stress and this amount of unknown and take away anything easy. So now when anyone drops off food, you can't eat it, right?
SPEAKER_00Like the food that you prepped before that's in your freezer and you you cooked up before.
SPEAKER_02You're nicely made like lasagnas and casseroles, and now they're just you know, you can't eat them because you know that I can't eat. Because there's meat and gluten and all these, you know, horrible things in it.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, all the all the delicious things that I can't eat anymore. I a hundred percent agree. And I love that you brought that up, that there is a balance. There's a balance to be had always. And when we're working with families, the balance to be had is between the lactating parents' mental and physical health and the baby's reactivity. And so what I mean by that is that the strategy that we take on an elimination diet really depends on these two things and making sure that the balance is set. And so, for example, for a baby who has really mild symptoms, maybe they have, you know, more mild reflex and some more mild rash, for example. And baby is otherwise happy, healthy, thriving, just has these, you know, two kind of issues, and we know that it's food related. And then for that family, we'll probably do, and if the the family, the parent is like, you know, I'm really stressed, I'm really like nervous about an elimination diet, I have a history of eating disorder, things like that. And or, you know, like, you know, getting alternative foods is very expensive and I can't afford it, all of those things have to come in play. And we say, okay, based on these, all these factors, this is the best strategy for your next steps, and to help and then support them through that next step. As opposed to if a family has like my oldest, we were in the hospital, she was bleeding profusely, like literally only blood came out of that poor little girl's body, and she was covered in eczema from head to toe. That was so bad that it was weeping and infected. Like we had a very serious situation. And unfortunately, like it didn't need to be that bad. I had been ringing the alarms for weeks at this point that something was wrong and nobody would listen to me. And so, for that type of situation, if a family comes to us and they're dealing with really severe symptomology and the parent is willing and able mentally and physically to do a more broad elimination diet, then we'll do that in order to get to happy, healthy baby faster. Because the other interesting nuance here is that the number one thing that's going to reduce the stress for a parent is a happy, healthy baby. So if you have a baby who's like up there and the symptomology and like is really severe, we need to remove more things from the diet to get baby happier and healthier faster because that will reduce the stress faster, and then start bringing these foods back. So then it's a matter of like, how do we support the family through that? How do we make sure that they have the right nutrients? They have enough foods. And then we have we really openly have that discussion of, okay, these are the things we're eliminating from your diet. However, is there something in here that we need to bring back for you? Is there something in here that would change your, you know, your mental health and really have an open conversation about that? And often then the family will say, it would be really helpful if I could have chocolate at the end of the day. Yes, got you. Here's the chocolate we're gonna do. I totally understand. And I want you to have something that is a treat for you too, that allows you to still feel some kind of sense of normalcy. So there's a balance here, and it's never ever a cookie cutter one size fits all situation, which goes back to our conversation about this not being easy. It's not easy and it's not fast and it can't be done in 15 minutes. And we have to look at the the whole big picture. But the number one thing, and I totally agree here, is that the number one thing that we know that impacts the parents' transferability of these proteins from our diet to our breast milk is stress. So we see in the research that when the lactating parent is stressed, these spikes in cortisol levels then directly break the tight junctions that hold together our gastrointestinal system, it increases our intestinal permeability, and it impacts our ability to transfer these proteins to our breast. And so stress plays an integral role in all of this. And so we have to find a balance, just like you mentioned, of how much stress is the elimination diet going to put on us? Is there a middle ground we can find with that? How much stress is continue reactivity going to put on this? Can we find a balance with that? And what's the middle ground for this particular case?
SPEAKER_02Yeah, I mean, it's stress is such a hard one because we all know it's there, but it's not it's not so tangible and it's not so fixable. You know, it's like, yes, I know I'm stressed, but I'll go do meditation for 10 minutes and I should feel all better. But it's it's it's not so easy that it's this invisible constant.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, and it's not measurable, which is super hard. And yeah, stress. And I will be, you know, the first to admit that I don't do the best job at taking care of myself and my own stress load, and my body will tell me. Um, I will admit that, like literally right now, I have a cold sore, and I know it's because I just finished doing four days of military duty and then tried to like jump right back into free-to-feed stuff and didn't give myself a break or any like moment to rest. And so I think that that a part of it though, I think that a part of all of this is while you're working with families, letting them know that like they're not alone, right? That it would be strange if they weren't stressed right now. It would be strange if they miss didn't miss cheese. I would be more worried about you if you weren't worried about starting solids at all. Um, you know, that all of these things are okay to feel and that we can talk through them.
SPEAKER_02I think one of the biggest things that we know about stress, and we know this through pretty much all mental health, but it doesn't always get applied in this scenario, is that support makes a difference. You know, you get somebody who's newly diagnosed with depression or anxiety, they send them to a therapist and to support groups, like especially right now with the lack of therapists in this country because we're so overloaded ever since COVID. I mean, the depression anxiety numbers ever since COVID started have just been through the roof. And, you know, I've had different friends and family and clients and everyone who's been diagnosed in the last couple of years has had quite a weight to even see anybody. But one thing that they have all had in common is they've sent them to groups that when you are in a support situation where people have gone through similar things or they have similar stresses and similar reactions, it bonds and it helps a lot. And unfortunately, in this area, there hasn't been that really, right? There hasn't been an easily accessible support system for these parents.
SPEAKER_00Yep. Yep. And that's part of what we've provided for these families is we when we have a free-to-feed family, after we've been able to meet with them, we plug them directly into a forum of fellow food allergy warriors that are in the trenches right now. Um, so they can talk to each other, give empathy and love, and in a safer environment. So what I've found is that the more the further along that we go, it seems as though some of the other group spaces, such as Facebook groups, um, have seemed to become more and more toxic and judgmental and not supportive. And so the wonderful thing about the space that we've been able to create in our own platform is as there's just a place of empathy and love and support in a in a group setting where you're exactly right. Like maybe we aren't able to talk to and touch every single family every single day, but they have a place to go. They have a place to go to say, like, this sucks. This is hard. Um, and I want to talk about how hard it is and how much I want to eat a cheesecake and or be angry that the barista gave me the wrong milk today and I got dearied and just all of the pieces and being able to have a support system to rely on and talk to is um so incredible and important. And it's the things that I wish I had when I was navigating this journey myself. So it just as you mentioned, like, man, I really wish that I had somebody to talk to. I really wish, you know, that somebody had told me that there is a balance um to be struck here and that it wasn't all or nothing. It's all of those things to the point of um me getting to an area of my life of being like, man, you know, I wish I could just test my breast milk. I wish I could just test my milk and know and no longer have this mystery of what is in my boob at any given moment and just be able to navigate this food allergy journey more effectively. Um, and that's ends up being what we build. And I probably I would guess that you have kind of, you know, a similar journey with your own um lactation profession, right? Like we a lot of times, especially as parents, we become the thing that we wish we had had.
SPEAKER_02Right, right. I mean, my there'll be a podcast on this in a couple months as well. My kids are both getting their tongues released. And originally, and it's actually next next week. They both have tongue tie and they're 10 and 13. And originally I was as well, because I have a tongue tie which explains so much of my childhood, but I didn't know about it until recently. Uh, I just had like the whole, I mean, you can look at a checklist for childhood and and adult symptoms, and I'm like, man, I fill up that checklist. But I recently just decided not to do mine because we had done some body work and my body really strongly did not react well. And I had a major pain flare. And so I am I'm not doing mine because my body is not in a place right now where I can I can do that. It's just so overstressed and reactive that I'm like, I'm just not gonna take anything well. But my kids are, and it is it is overwhelming when you go into anything new like this with children. It is just, it is so much. And yes, you're right. I mean, I think that I I look back and I really wish someone had told me when they were babies hey, your kiddos have tongue tie, and that's why you have an oversupply, and that's why you have a baby. That spits up every five minutes, even though she's really chunky and gaining well. And you know, that's why you have a Tortocallus baby who cries all the time and needs to be held and has all these needs not being met. And I'm like, oh, all this so makes sense. And yet nobody told me, you know, and nobody, I mean, Tortocallis so frequently is with tongue tie. And she has my one who had tortocollis has a very obvious Eiffel Tower tongue tie. Like not hard to see at all if you know what you're doing. Like, kind of not hard to see if you totally don't know what you're doing too. Like it's barely obvious.
SPEAKER_00Everyone should be able to see it from uh across the room.
SPEAKER_02I'm like, you can literally see her tongue tie, the frenulum actually splits into four strands and it goes up to each of her four front teeth. Like it literally goes right up to them and it pulls those four in. And you could see that even before there were teeth because it was pulling up to the gum line. And I'm like, how did nobody? I didn't know this back then. I mean, there's so much, right? There's so much that if we had known then what we know now. But yeah, I do wish that I could have had someone do that for me. And I that is something when when I tell a client, you know, this is what I'm seeing, this is where I'm seeing the issue. And they say, well, that's not what the pediatrician said. And we go through all the different things and they say, well, you know, what would you do? And I and I'm always very cautious there because I never want, I never want a client to feel pushed by me or guided by me really like that, because that's not my goal. My it's not my job. My job is to give information, you know, education and support is my job. And they're they need to do what they feel is best for their family. But there are times that I've told clients that it's like, yeah, I wish I had done this when my baby was a month instead of now at 13 and 10. Like it's not so fun. I have a 10-year-old in oral expansion, not so fun. She hates it. No, absolutely hates it.
SPEAKER_00And your own, and your own situation too. Yeah. Um, you know, the the things that we wish we knew. And I think that is a perfect thing to bring up too, in the midst of, you know, you and I talked a lot about um, you know, the immune system being at a heightened state. And often when I talk about that and and families are listening, those families who have already been on this journey in the past are that's that's a stressful thing to hear, right? Of like I didn't do or to feel like you didn't do the right thing in the moment. Um, and so I also want to mention in that same exact vein of like, you did the best you could with the information you had at the time.
unknownRight.
SPEAKER_00Like, yes, if you had more information and you had the support and love and empathy that you deserved back then, you would have done differently. But you did what you knew to do with the information you had in that moment. And I think that's so incredible to mention as well because um it because that's so stressful. It's so stressful to think about these are the things that like we missed that we're either dealing with now or might have long-term impacts. Um, and that's hard to, that's hard to deal with.
SPEAKER_02Oh, I had guilt for years about my my older one has food allergies, um, which will segue into a question I have in just a second. But she had, you know, peanut allergy, but not tree nut, and was eating them regularly. And in around third grade, started having a lot of GI stuff. And you know, we were at a new school and there were social issues, and we were constantly told, well, it's GI, so it's just, you know, emotional, right? It's emotional, it's stress, it's all this. Like we did everything else. We went to acupuncture, we did meditation, we did prayer, we did like everything you could do with this child, like all these different like yoga, everything to reduce stress and everything else. And finally, at like the end of a year, we'd seen a new pediatrician. She was like, Well, you know, it's been a while. Maybe we'll redo her allergy testing. I was like, Yeah, whatever, sure. Hadn't really thought about it. And it came back and they were like, Oh yeah, she's allergic to all those tree nuts, and you said she eats them. And I'm like, Yeah, only every day when she goes to school. So, but she never ate them on weekends. Like we would put nut butter on a waffle every day for school, but she didn't eat them on weekends because, you know, I'd make eggs or pancakes or something else. And it was interesting because that that fed into the, well, it must be stress in school because it only happened on school days, but it was actually just her diet was different on school days. You know, we packed at lunch, which for her, my non-meat eating kid who really just doesn't like meat that much, she would pack nuts and then she would sit outside the nurse's office every day after lunch because she got a stomachache. And it's like, oh my God, I had so much guilt. I'm like, wait. So I basically sent poison in my child's lunchbox every day for a year. Fantastic. And it does just take time and healing and giving yourself the grace and saying, I did the best I knew. I did everything I knew. I would never knowingly harm my child, but I did what I knew. And I nobody said anything else, you know. And it is hard because that does take time to to grieve and to go past. And that's, you know, and when you when you have these little newborns and people find out there and they're like, oh my gosh, I was eating eggs every day because I thought it was a good fast protein, or, you know, and I'm like, Well, you did what you knew. You didn't intentionally ever harm your child, but it takes time to get through that and to give yourself that forgiveness.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. And I uh one of the things that you know I talk with families a lot as it relates to this too, is like feeling on the other side like you missed out on important times in your child's life. Um, when you're you're in the trenches of you know these symptoms that you're dealing with, oftentimes like we don't get the opportunity to really enjoy our newborns. So, you know, when you're dealing with quote unquote colic, which I cannot tell you, I agree a billion percent that that is a symptom and not a diagnosis. But when you're dealing with a baby who's inconsolable, with a baby who's comfort feeding because they're in pain, um a baby who's scratching, a baby who's not sleeping, you it's so hard to really stop and take a moment to enjoy your baby and enjoy this moment and their their the good times and the and the happy, you know, smiles and many times when families reach us, having to have that conversation with them of you know, a little bit of mourning, just like you mentioned, right? Like it's okay to mourn the time that has passed so far and to give them all of the permission in the world to like you have permission for me to enjoy the good times, to enjoy your baby and enjoy the fact that you have a newborn. And and I'm certainly one of them that that feels that way. I truly feel like with my oldest, that like the first year on this elimination diet and dealing through her symptomology, I really lost myself. And I will be the first to admit that in the midst of that, um, it was so bad that eventually started turning to alcohol as like a coping mechanism because I couldn't turn to food, the thing that I would normally go to of like, all right, I'm gonna have myself a cupcake or whatever it might be. And by the end of our journey, by the end of a year of this, I found myself in the trenches of um alcoholism. And and and that like guilt and shame of having missed the first year of her life and now battling a whole new monster of like, oh wow, like I I started, you know, using a glass of wine at the end of the day to try to give myself something after she was down for the night and that morphed in the course of a year into something that I couldn't stop. And and then having to battle that for a few years before I was finally able to, you know, get the right help and get sober, but to take the moment to say, like, you know, that's okay. That's okay, that it would be strange if it didn't impact me, right? It would be strange if I didn't need something to um get me through that time. And I can use that time that I feel like I had missed to really enjoy and soak up the time that I have today.
SPEAKER_02Yeah. I think it's so brave of you to talk about that. And I'm so sorry for this journey and where it led you. And that was, I know that it led you to where you are today. And I'm thankful for that for all the families that you're already helping and the many more you're going to. But I am so sorry that along your path was such pain. Like that just, it just breaks my heart because you were just not being seen and heard enough in this. And it's so, as a lactation consultant, sometimes I feel very blessed to be someone who does, as a provider, see the dyad. You know, so often moms and babies are looked at and treated very separately. They're like, you know, you go to the pediatrician, they're looking at just baby stuff. You go to the obstetrician, they're just looking down below and they're like, okay, everything's fine, you can go back to normal, but you're not. And you're not for a long time. I mean, some people say three. I would easily say, and I really see it the first six months. The first six months, you guys are like one dyad, you're one kind of conjoined people, you know, because you're so interdependent on each other for every need. And every, you know, you they came out of you and you share this biome and you continue sharing it if you're breastfeeding. And it's just this really intense intertwining that takes months to figure out and to separate and to kind of become two separate people. And it doesn't happen, you know, people are like, yeah, you're the same until birth. And then it's like poop. And I'm like, no, it's not quite a poof. Like it takes some time and it's much more gradual than that. But seeing them as the dyad is really, I feel like a truly important thing because I see how much each one affects each other. Like you said earlier with the it's it's that hard thing of, yeah, the elimination diet is stressful, but the best way to reduce stress on this parent is to get their child feeling better. But you're only looking at that because you're looking at both. If you were just looking at mom, you would say, well, elimination elimination diet, a full one is really stressful. So we shouldn't do that. And if you were just looking at baby, you'd say, well, it definitely needs the elimination diet. And that's all we should consider. But when you look at them together, then you realize, okay, we've got to do this in a way that's going to bring the most good and the least harm to both of them together. And that still might be what you were thinking with the baby of, you know, full elimination or whatever, because that might bring the soonest resolution for that feeding parent and lower their stress and increase their happiness factor and actually get them enjoying life with this newborn. But it is a exactly, you know, sometimes they have to be steps.
SPEAKER_00I totally agree. I totally agree. And I think that two points that I'd love to hit on with that is one, I totally agree with your mention of, you know, like these two separate beings, these two separate humans being very interconnected. And especially for for most families in that first six months of life. And I would say that for food allergy families, um, I would even extend that for many of them because depending on the severity of the reactivity, for some children, like they really rely on breast milk for the first couple of years. Um, while if they're reactive to many foods, they may be reliant on breast milk for you know the first two and a half years of life of their that being their main source of nutrition. Um, and so then that really extends that period of time where these two humans are so incredibly interconnected.
SPEAKER_02And you're right, I hadn't thought about, I mean, I think that it easily goes up to a year, but you're right that if the baby is really relying on mom as their main nutrition source because of these limiting food issues, that it it can extend way past that year.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, exactly. And um the hard part, many, many hard parts, but another, you know, piece that is important as they're navigating this journey, then too, is how much like pressure that puts on the family, that how much pressure that puts on the lactating parent um for such an extended period of time, right? That like they are if your child has several significant food allergies and is relying on your breast milk for, let's say, the first two years of life for their main source of nutrition, that's a lot of pressure that we're not helping families navigate and and express stress around. Um, because what happens if I get into a car accident? Um, you know, I an actual real life example. I have a family that we've been working with for over a year, and she had appendicitis and she needed to have her appendix taken out, and it was an emergency, and her baby has severe food allergies and reacted to many things. And it was a big stressor to suddenly be like, oh my gosh, I'm going to the ER right now. And for us, we navigated getting her breast milk. You know, we navigated and talked to fellow food allergy families in our community and got breast milk sent to her. Um, that was the right elimination diet because we have families on every elimination diet under the sun, as you can imagine. Um, to like be like, okay, we need to get breast milk to Pennsylvania. What is that gonna look like? And, you know, in the normal, quote unquote normal um scheme of things, that that's not an option for most families. And so it's a lot of pressure to be like, I'm it, right? Like I'm the only, I'm the only option. Um, and some of these families, their babies' reactivity is so significant, they can't go to a hypoallergenic formula because even the hypoallergenic formula elicits a response for their child because they have significant coron reactivity, for example. Um, and there's so much nuance here that needs to be addressed and unfortunately hasn't up to this point.
SPEAKER_02So I know we're almost out of time here, but I have one, I probably should have brought it up earlier, but I have one important question for you is that can you explain the difference between intolerance and allergy? For example, when I think of an intolerance, I think of someone who says that they're lactose intolerant and they, you know, get upset stomach or diarrhea, or somebody who has like my children have a peanut allergy and carry epipens everywhere. What are the differences there with intolerance and allergy?
SPEAKER_00Yeah, absolutely. And this is one of the important topics that I love to talk about. So I appreciate you bringing it up. So when we're looking at intolerance versus allergy, you hit it on directly on, which is an intolerance is just like a lactose intolerance, where our body is not able to properly break down that particular portion of the food. So in the case of a lactose intolerance, you are not making enough of the right enzyme, which is called lactase, in order to break down lactose. And that lactose is the sugar that makes up mammalian milk. So when we have a lactose intolerance, what happens in the body is that as humans, we make a ton of lactase, that enzyme that breaks down um milk when we're first born, because we're built to live off of breast milk. And then as we get older, oftentimes our bodies will just stop making as much of that enzyme because we're then made to live off of other foods outside of mammalian milk. And so our body stops making that enzyme. And many times, then as we get older, we'll end up being lactose intolerant because our body doesn't know and doesn't have the right enzyme to break down that particular sugar and it causes us digestive problems. And that's what an actual intolerance is. It is not creating the right enzyme to break down particular foods. And when it relates to protein, our body makes these enzymes that break down all proteins. And it is incredibly rare for a child to be born with an intolerance, with the inability to make the right enzymes to break anything down. And if your baby does have an intolerance, it means that it doesn't matter how much stuff you take out of your breast milk, it doesn't matter how much stuff you take out of your diet, your baby will never be able to tolerate breast milk because they don't make the enzymes to break anything down correctly. They're going to need to be on a very special hypoallergenic formula. These are incredibly rare situations and they're caught in the hospital because they're so severe. Most babies do not have an intolerance, and they will be told that they have an intolerance, and we get into weeds about like why. But in fact, they're almost always allergies. And the misinformation here is that there isn't just one type of allergy. Um, I also have the type of allergy that your children do, which is um an IgE-mediated allergy. And an IgE-mediated allergy is the type of stereotypical allergy that we think of when we think of an allergy. We think of, you know, little Timmy can't have peanuts. And if he does, he's going to, you know, have swelling, maybe hard breathing, heart palpitations, he's going to need an epipenny, he's got to go to the hospital. So life-threatening food allergies. And that's what we typically think of when we think of a food allergy is this stereotypical life-threatening food allergy. But there's a whole other category of allergies that most people miss and don't get educated on, which is considered a non-IgE made allergy. And we can all take a second to like laugh at how ridiculous that is that the two categories we came up with was either uh IgE or everything else, as opposed to like actually giving correct um an actual name. That's okay. So you're either that or you're not that. Um, so you're either you either have an IgE made allergy where you need an epiped or you don't and is still in an allergy, but it's um a different mechanism in the body. It happens a different pathway and it causes different symptoms. So instead of breathing trouble and swelling, it causes eczema, it causes bloody stool, it causes reflux and rashes and mucousy stool, diarrhea, constipation, chronic congestion, all kinds of other things that are still an allergy. So there's still definitely an allergy. It's just not that stereotypical allergy that we typically think of. And the reason why this is important to know, and the reason why this is one of the things that I'll go, you know, stand on mountaintops and scream about is because the word intolerance is often used then to kind of placate families to say, you know, it's just an intolerance, it's not a big deal, your baby's gonna outgrow it, don't worry about it. And that is such a disservice to one, it's not true, but two, it's a disservice to the families because you're telling them that their pain and discomfort doesn't matter. You're telling them that just deal with it, you know, just deal with it until your baby outgrows it and there's nothing I can do and I'm not gonna help you. When in actuality it is an allergy, and it's a good thing that it's an allergy because technically, if it was actually an intolerance, that's lifelong. If you don't make the right enzyme, you're not just gonna start making the right enzyme later. You actually have a non-Ig mediated allergy, and those are almost always outgrown. So it is a good thing if your baby has a non-Ig mutat allergy because they're gonna outgrow it. And it is the immune system that is eliciting this response. That's also a good thing because the immune system is continuously developing in the first year of life. And most of the time, then for these types of reactions for the outgrowing, we see about half of these little outgrow by age one, about 87% by age three, and high 90s by age five. And so there's a light at the end of the tunnel for these journeys. And that is just one of the many places where there's some misinformation and can be hurtful to the journey all the way around to call this an intolerance when in fact it is an allergy. It's just a different category.
SPEAKER_02That was, I feel like we should have had a little bit of a drawing there with some arrows and pointers. But that was like the great ideas, right? That was like a great science lesson because I feel like, and I obviously I am not the expert you are on this. I am a food allergy parent with my own issues and my kids' issues and everything else. But I kind of feel like everything I've been told is well wrong, and that they were that they were breaking it down into two categories and that there's actually three, and that the third one that they didn't talk about, the non-IgE mediated allergy, they just kind of split that up into the other two. And so they made them all very, very blurry because I can't tell you how many times like everything I've been told then about all of the intolerances is totally wrong. Okay, you just totally blew my mind right there.
SPEAKER_00And definitely for anybody listening who's like who's it feels like they're in that boat right now, um, certainly check out our Instagram page. We and we also have an article about this on the blog, but on the Instagram page, we have a specific um post that talks about IgE versus non-IgE media allergies. And it literally we created a full diagram with arrows and all that. Perfect.
SPEAKER_02That's just what I need a visual learner.
SPEAKER_00Yes, yeah. So definitely you can check that out, and maybe I'll send you the link for it. So if you want to like include it in the show notes or anything, so people can go and look and be like, oh, this is what she's talking about.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, that's just I'm just mind-blown because I I mean, I've been in this space for my daughter first started her food allergy stuff at two. And so for 11 years, we've been dealing with allergists and we've done food sensitivity testings and allergy testings and elimination diets and so many different things, and nobody's ever broken it down into those three quite so clearly.
SPEAKER_00Like, like, oh I'm sorry to hear that, but I'm also um glad that I could be the one to kind of like clear some fog for for you.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, that's absolutely amazing. So thank you so much. Thank you for your time today. I know you've got a million things to do. I mean, being obviously being still, you know, you're still in the National Guard, right?
unknownYep.
SPEAKER_02And you're a mom of two, and you're doing your amazing free to feed to bring this testing to families everywhere is just uh do you sleep? Like, or have you discovered the like special formula where you don't have to sleep? Because I look at people and I'm like, I don't know how you do all of that.
SPEAKER_00Oh man, um, that's a good question. And you know, out of all of the things that I do prioritize, um, my sleep is the the very first thing that I prioritize. So I give myself permission to get as much sleep as I possibly can so that when I am awake, I am as productive as possible. Um, because if I don't, then I am a whole hot mess and I know that about myself. Um so my loving husband, and I will say that that's a big part of the reason why I'm able to do the things that I do. So my wonderful husband takes care of things in the morning most often. If I don't have something right away in the morning, that way I can sleep and be a functioning member of society when I'm I'm ready to go for the day.
SPEAKER_02That's awesome. But I'm glad that you prioritize sleep because it is something that very often we all just kind of toss aside and and don't see as necessary. So, but I am very thankful for your time. I know you are very busy, and I'm just so thankful for you sharing your knowledge with us today. And also just I'm so thankful that you're out in this space and that you are going to make a difference in all of these families. And you already are by creating this community and supporting them on their journey and helping navigate this crazy food space for them. But this testing is just going to be a whole nother level of information and knowledge is always power. So I thank you so much for this.
SPEAKER_00Thank you so much, Katie, for having me. I appreciate it. Thank you.
SPEAKER_02When you change the way you look at things, the things you look at change you. I hope that you enjoyed the podcast today and learned something new. If you know someone who would benefit from this podcast, please share.