Katie The Traveling Lactation Consultant
Katie The Traveling Lactation Consultant
Ep 21 Autumn Henning
Use Left/Right to seek, Home/End to jump to start or end. Hold shift to jump forward or backward.
In this episode Katie discusses care of TOTs with Autumn R. Henning, MS, CCC-SLP, COM®, IBCLC of Chrysalis Orofacial. As an IBCLC and COM, Autumn works with clients the entire lifespan. Tongue tie starts in utero, changing the way baby swallows amniotic fluid and continues throughout life, effecting breastfeeding, speech, sleep and more. The effects of tongue tie never end, we just learn how to compensate, some better than others. Autumn works with a team of providers in Greenville South Carolina and has courses for providers.
Disclaimer, this content is meant for information only and not as a diagnosis or medical treatment for any condition. If you or a loved one needs help, please seek out a qualified medical professional for assistance. Welcome to the podcast. I'm your host, Katie Oshta, BSN, RN, IBCLC, and infant feeding specialist. Quench your thirst for knowledge and travel with me across the nation to discover, learn, collaborate, and better serve clients from all over the globe. Let's ride and thrive together. Welcome to the podcast. Today we have Autumn Henning, M S C C C S L P C O M IBCLC, who graduated from the University of Kentucky with a master's degree in communication disorders. She is currently appointed and in good standing as an assistant professor within the Voluntary Faculty Series in the Department of Communication Sciences and Disorders at the University of Kentucky College of Health Sciences. She was a founding board member for the International Consortium of Angliophrenia Professionals, ICAP. Autumn has completed specialty continuing education including Beckman Oral Motor, Coming Time Method, Understanding the Oreofacial Complex, and Foundations and Myofascial Release for the Neck, Voice, and Swallow. She has experience working within the school system, early intervention, and outpatient clinics, including a nationally award-winning intensive feeding program. Autumn specializes in orefacial function and development throughout the lifespan. Autumn has been invited to speak for many prestigious conferences and organizations, including the IAOM, the International Association for Oreofacial Myology, and the ICAP. Autumn has experience in presenting webinars. She is presented as part of Gold's Learning's first tongue symposium. She has written professional articles and been featured in many podcasts. Autumn has trained thousands of professionals from varying fields with her flagship course, TOTS Training. Autumn is married to Dr. Zach Kenning and they have a daughter, McKenna Henning. They reside in Greer, South Carolina with their beloved cats. Autumn's hobbies include travel, reading, church, and any activity with her family. Let's welcome Autumn to the podcast. Thanks so much for joining me today, Autumn. I am so excited that we finally got a chance to connect, even if it's only virtual. I was looking forward to your office, I have to say.
SPEAKER_00Well, thanks for having me, Katie. Yeah, I know life is busy and you're traveling here, there, and everywhere. And I am too. So just our travels took us at different times, different places. But I'm glad for the technology and glad for Zoom that we can do this.
SPEAKER_01Right. It's great. I just I find it interesting in lactation. Most of us don't have a ton of stuff, especially if you do more home visits than office or something. I mean, I'll carry around nipple shields and a scale and you know, some basic things, but I don't have, you know, an entire office full of little toys and things. And the first time I met a myofunctional therapist and I looked at her office, I was blown away. I was like, oh my gosh, you guys have so many cool little toys and tricks and things to do.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, yeah. There can be a lot of supplies. You know, I not one thing works for everybody. So having a variety of options that can help, I do tend to use things that are easily attainable and available to the family rather than tools. Um, they're already kind of paying for therapy. So, you know, the less that we have to buy, a lot of things that I have on hand are things like Cheerios and floss and just straws, yeah, coffee stirs, things that are readily available. So yeah, we do have a lot of stuff for, you know, and tools for sometimes those easy to get things are not giving us the results that we want. So having having the other options is always good.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, I I recently started some myofunctional therapy with my daughters because we were planning our releases next week, actually. Unfortunately, mine is going to take a back seat. I started my body work and my my body just screamed very loudly, no. Uh I did my own fascial release and I have chronic pain issues, and it was just way too much for my body. And it was apparent that I will take quite a bit longer of pre-work. So I just basically decided this week actually that I'm not going to release mine on Monday, which I'm pretty bummed about. But I want a good result. So mine will have to happen later because I need, I need definitely a lot more prep work than I anticipated. But my kids are on schedule. And one of the things that I've noticed with it is you're right, those at-home tools are really helpful. Like our myofunctional therapist has us using spoons and like I was using metal straws to work on taco and you know, little things that for the most part, you're right, that are around and easy because it is annoying to have to buy a bunch of stuff after paying for therapy. Right. Yeah.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. And I I don't know if you know, but I see the lifespan. So I see from, you know, birth as lactation consultant and all the way up to like the elderly, you know, TMJ and sleep apnea patient and everything in between. So yeah, I applaud you for, you know, listening to your body and kind of respecting that. And, you know, that's something that we do here. We do a green light system for our providers so that they know that the therapist has like cleared them and they're ready for the release, you know, overall body, mind, and spirit. Um, I know you're probably going through a lot with your own kids going on the journey. And so that's a lot to be mom and be a patient at the same time. So I truly get it. I like to say that I've been part of the PPP. So I got into this as a professional. One of my patients, I kind of discovered her tongue tie and it was just a life-changing career moment for me. And then as a patient, I went through my own release and I'm on my own airway journey as well. And then as a parent, five years ago now. So my daughter had her tongue and lip ties released when she was itty bitty. So yeah, seeing it from all sides is really a unique experience. And I'm grateful for it just because I feel like it makes you more empathetic and you know, a better, better therapist.
SPEAKER_01Oh, definitely. When we sat down with our, we have a very sleep airway-minded ortho, because my 10-year-old just started palate expansion. And when we sat down at that first consult, which was like an hour and a half, I was blown away. And I know a lot of this. Like I've been in this taught space for years and I'm comfortable with it. And then to just feel so overwhelmed, it gave me huge perspective for what parents go through when they're sitting there recovering from labor and birth and just in awe of this new little human and things aren't going well. And then I say, Oh, well, you know, this is the function that we're not seeing, and this is what we might want to do about it, and this is how we can go about it. And I just, it hit me how overwhelming it must be for all of them, you know. And I knew that before, but to feel it is different than to know it.
SPEAKER_00Right, definitely. Absolutely. Like, you know, I, you know, this is what I do for a living. And I had been through it myself and a bunch of my patients, but when it was your own, your own child, it it is a little different. It just hits different. And um, yeah, you know, I think that was a super humbling experience. And it's just helped me navigate those feelings and and challenges with the patients that I work with, how anxious and nervous they can be. And, you know, addressing that is key. Like even though we're not necessarily mental health therapists, having those counseling skills because this work is so personal and impacts so many areas of health. And yeah, I think that's really something important to address and look at for.
SPEAKER_01Oh, yeah. I'm sure you see it a lot too. I see a lot of postpartum mood and anxiety with the amount of clients I see that are struggling with breastfeeding. I mean, for the most part, all of mine are. Every once in a while I'll get a, you know, prenatal and then I'll see them postpartum and everything's going easy. But those are unicorns in this field. And, you know, when you see someone so raw and struggling, there's going to be, there's bound to be some mental health, even if it's within the normal range of baby blues, right? Right. So I always say my first goal is that the console ends better than it started. Like if we achieve nothing else, I want them to know how I see them. And I know that they're doing their absolute best and that we will find a way to make it easier, but that they are enough. You know, there's so much, so much mom guilt and pressure, and they're trying to do everything right.
SPEAKER_00And it's overwhelming. For sure. I love that the console ends better than it started. I love that. Yeah, I definitely resonate with that too. And, you know, it's really a cool place to be. You know, I have hundreds of really cool life-changing stories of of patients that I've worked with and seen and and whatnot, but just creating that safe space and validation is a big key. Like we get the unique opportunity to maybe be one of the only healthcare providers that has actually heard their concerns and you know, not brushed it off and you know, validated that their their gutting instinct or their mom instinct is is on target and that this isn't normal and this isn't something that they'll just grow out of. And all of those, those myths and dismissive actions that we hear told to our patients. So yeah, I consider it like such a huge honor to be that for that patient. I recently went to a colleague of mine and she scoped me related to some of my airway stuff. And I, I mean, this was I guess like four or five months ago, but I remember in her office it says something like, You are not your symptoms and you are not crazy. Right. And I just thought that was so like raw and something that on any given day a patient may need to hear, you know. So anyway, definitely creating that that space for our clients is key.
SPEAKER_01Definitely. I think it's one of the sad flaws of our allopathic medic medical system that we are seen too often as parts. You know, you go to an ENT and they look at your ear nose and throat, and you go to GI and they look at your stomach stuff, and you go to a cardiac and they look there, but nobody seems to be, even primaries, they just don't seem to be addressing you as a whole person who's in this exact environment at this moment with this mental health and this support system. And, you know, and I think it's it's really interesting to see naturopaths and functional medicine really taking off. And I'm hoping that that will become so much more mainstream and more accessible for everyone to have a doctor that, you know, looks at you as a whole person. I feel like that's pretty basic.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, yeah. And I love, I honestly love those cases because, you know, you have all of these pieces of the puzzle and like putting it together for somebody is really cool. You know, not that I know everything or end all be all by any means, but I think it takes practitioners getting out of their own profession and learning about the other professions and the other areas because you don't know what you don't know and you don't know how something can be connected. So for example, I had a patient, I guess this was about two or three years ago, and the ENT referred him to me and he was like, I'm sorry. This guy was just not the happiest person by any means. But um, anyway, he was, you know, talking about how he came for sleep apnea and these sores on his tongue, and he had been to all these specialists for this, that, and the other, and no one could figure out what it was and and whatnot. And so, you know, it was interesting because as I talked with him, I asked a lot of questions that he'd never really been asked before. And, you know, I found out that he had speech therapy when he was a kid, I found out that he had an expander, I found out that he was labeled as a tongue thruster, you know, with his orthodontist. And I found out that, you know, he was waking up to go to the bathroom multiple times a night, like when you ask about sleep and stuff. And he was like, Well, I'm just getting older and that's like a common thing. And I'm like, Yeah, but it's also related to your breathing. And he's like, No, that's that's urinary and and bladder. And I was like, actually they're linked and it's pretty well documented in the literature. And so that's just an example of, you know, you go here, you get this answer, you go here, you get this answer. And really it takes somebody that, you know, can see the big connections and putting it all together. So cool story, you know, he went through myofunctional therapy with me and went through a tongue tie release and ended up with expansion as well. And so he sleeps well, not getting up to go to the bathroom every every five minutes by any means now. And um, you know, it's just like a happy ending. But, you know, it took multiple professionals and looking at things through that wider lens.
SPEAKER_01I think part of that is also the the normalization we have in this country to things that are not normal. That, you know, I'm constantly saying that's common, not normal. You know, when someone says, Oh, well, I snore, but that's normal. And I'm nope, nope, that's your body crying out for help. But we just pretend that it's, you know, totally normal because so many people do it. We have completely blurred those lines. And getting up to pee in the middle of the night is another one where when you tell someone that they're and they actually understand and listen to you, their mind is blown and they're like, wait a second. Right. This thing that I have thought my entire life and been told by many, many, many people, including other professionals, that was completely normal is not, and it's actually a symptom of something, and it's actually my body trying to tell me or do something. It's it's mind-blowing the amount of things that we equate with normal.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, absolutely. And I always say, you know, we only experience our own body. Like, for example, I have a tori eye in the roof of my mouth, and my tongue has always felt that torah eye. Like, I just thought everyone had a bony bump in the roof of their mouth, right? And so, you know, like it didn't even occur to me to ask people, you know, and this was before I was a speech pathologist and everything, but you know, what we experience, we consider is the normal experience. And you bring up a really good point about people overnormalizing things that are actually an issue, but because they're so common, we're almost like desensitized to it. Right. You ask any kid, you say, okay, let's pretend like you're asleep. What do they do? Right? They snore, right? And you know, snore culture, as I like to call it. Like I was at a baby shower a couple of years ago and I was a little boy, and someone gave this mom a little onesie that had a dinosaur on it, and it said hear me snore instead of hear me roar, right? And I was like, Oh god, I hope the baby doesn't snore. You know, like right, yes, and lots of things that people consider cute are actually not cute. They're they're actually a medical issue. Actually, cry for help from your body. Yeah, exactly, exactly. And you know, I tell folks that snoring, you know, why is your airway making a noise? Like if it's open and air can flow in and out easily without turbulence, then that should be what's happening. And when you have noise with breathing, that means there's something obstructing, something somewhere. What that is, you know, to be determined. But right.
SPEAKER_01And it's not always a tongue time. I mean, sometimes it's sometimes it's other things. Sometimes it is a weight issue too, is you know, their airway gets softer and larger. And but there's I mean, there can be other causes, but sometimes decent amount of time it is that tongue.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, yeah. Especially if it's only at night, like your nasal breather during the day. But what happens when we lay down, right? That's where the tongue obstruction comes into play. And so, you know, you you brought up a a good point about obesity and sleep disordered breathing or apnea. And you know, I'm really starting to think that yes, obesity makes sleep apnea worse because, you know, the increased weight and the mass on the neck and and all of that. But the other side of things is that I think sleep breathing can create obesity. So, like thinking about it, you're not getting good sleep because you're trying to breathe, you're not getting that deep restorative sleep. So you're tired. You crave crunchy, sugary, carby foods, right? And then you crash and you're tired again. And so then you don't exercise, right? And then you're exhausted. You wake up exhausted, you go to sleep exhausted, and you do it over the next day. Well, continuing to eat like that and not exercising and whatnot can totally make the sleep apnea stuff worse. So it's sort of a chicken or egg thing. Absolutely. And like you mentioned, you know, clearly it's not always a tongue tie that's related to the sleep breathing issue. But I do feel like sometimes that's where it starts and that's a piece of the puzzle. And so, you know, you've got this tongue tie keeping your tongue low. Now, as you grew up, you know, you've got smaller jaws and a more narrow, high palate that takes up room in your nasal cavity. So that makes you more of a mouth breather. When you have a smaller space and things can't drain, now you get more sinus infections, creating more inflammation and more mouth breathing and enlarged tonsils and adenoids and you know, the whole thing. And then when your airway is small and you're trying to get the same amount of air through a small space, you've got that collapse. And when that collapse happens, it can like pull on your soft palate and pull on your uvula. So a lot of what I see is elongated soft palates and elongated uvulas from that consistent pull. And so, you know, that's the thing. You know, they may go to a sleep specialist or an ENT or whatnot, and they're like, oh, well, you it's the soft palate obstructing. Yeah, but how did the soft palate get that way to begin with? Right. And so like tracing things back and digging deeper is is where it's at and really like problem solving through that. And um, I know not everyone's as fortunate to have a whole team, but we do hear, and you know, it wasn't just by accident, it was, you know, a lot of years of education, a lot of years of spending time with each other and talking through our issues and cases. And um, yeah, it really does take a village for these types of complex patients and and issues.
SPEAKER_01Absolutely. I mean, that's why I started this podcast. I want to learn from other providers in this space. And, you know, as I said earlier, I'm not looking to become a myofunctional therapist or a body worker or release provider, but the more I understand what each piece brings to this puzzle, the more that I can see how my piece affects the other ones and how it all comes together to help the patient thrive. And right now I am, like you said, I'm experiencing the parent side and I'm getting to do, I did done a little bit of patient side and I'll I'll do more in the fall when I'm ready to work on my body work again. But for now, I'll get to do the parent side and see what it's like from this side and how can I, how can that change my practice and the understanding and the empathy that, you know, of what the clients go through, but also just the reality of how it is. You know, when I it's easy to say something like, you know, go do these three times a day and think nothing of it. And now that I'm trying to do it, I'm like, man, we were at like a hundred percent success rate three times a day for the first two weeks of Maya. And then now we're at like usually two. Some some days we still get three, some days we're only getting two. And I'm like, man, where did it go? But it is hard to maintain it.
SPEAKER_00It is, you know, it really is. And that's a key piece too, is people only have so much time, money, and energy, right? And so you have to kind of prioritize. You may want to send them to five different specialists, but you kind of have to like prioritize what is the most important right now. What can this family handle? What is the most critical to our success in the clinic and what is gonna enhance their quality of life the most, right? And so as a therapist, as a lactation consultant, I really try to integrate things into daily life. So, you know, everybody has to go to the bathroom at some point during the day. So I'm like, okay, we'll put a post-it note on your bathroom mirror of, you know, where's your tongue? Check your tongue posture, right? Mm-hmm. I love that. You know, if people are spending time in the car a good bit, you know, car line waiting to pick up a kid in the car, like. Like you're safe, you're stopped, right? So not in a moving vehicle. So a lot of my moms that I'm treating, that's the time that they're doing their exercises. So finding those things that they regularly do and integrating the exercise into that time. A, it's less burdensome and B, it's more likely going to get done. And C, if you start already by integrating the exercises into their daily routine, they're more likely to maintain that function and keep it up. And so yeah, we really work hard on doing that because yeah, no point if we can't get those done, we're not gonna progress forward.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, I've done we've done quite a lot of Mayo in the car as we travel. So there's plenty of time.
SPEAKER_00You live in your car.
SPEAKER_01Right. I mean, this sometimes it feels like that, especially with traveling. And so there's definitely a lot of days that it's funny. Sometimes we recently stopped and my husband's getting gas because we have a truck, so we're always getting gas. And the kids are making the most hilarious faces out the window with him as they're doing their Mayo, and he's just doing them back, and it's just so funny. And I'm like, oh my gosh, people are gonna think we look so weird right now as we're making our like granny surprise face and all this ridiculous stuff. But it's a way to work it in. You're right. And I do the same with my clients in terms of like we will do, you know, the post-wound care for a baby around diaper changes. And we don't have to get all the diaper changes because we don't need to be doing it that often, but it does help us be like, okay, well, I missed the last diaper change, so I'll do this one. I know there's always another one coming, you know, there's so many diaper changes and things like that, but it does help, it definitely does help your right to integrate things into their life that they're already doing. And I definitely love the point you brought up about almost triaging of what is most important right now, right? How can I help you today? And yes, we want to make a plan for later, but sometimes they can't do it all right away. You know, I had a client recently that came to me because she said she thought the baby might have tongue type, but she was suffering from some very intense PAD symptoms and was having a dysmorphic milk ejection reflex and really not thriving. And, you know, she's like, well, how do we check the baby's tongue? And I was like, you know, I'm not sure we do that today. And she's like, what? And I was like, I really want to focus on you. Like I see where that is, but your nipples are okay. She's gaining weight. Let's let's put a pin in that one for today. Let's just focus on your mental health because those are gonna be big enough hurdles for her to make that call to get on medication and to start feeling better. And I was like, I can't pile more on you right now. Like me sending you to a release provider and a body worker and starting documentary. Like, really, I'm gonna tell someone who feels like they can't get up out of bed today that they should do all of that.
SPEAKER_00Right.
SPEAKER_01So there are definitely times when we have to focus on what needs to happen today. And we can think about where we go from here next time. And I, you know, sometimes I'll make a little footnote of next time we'll talk about this, but we're not gonna worry about that today. Today these are our goals, you know, because yeah, you just you can't, it becomes too much.
SPEAKER_00I love that. And you know, working with sleep-deprived new parents and also just pretty much the majority of my patients don't sleep well. And so that plays such a role in in mental health. And you know, something that I'll say to families is if they're worried about this, that, and the other, I'll say, okay, look, this is the most important thing. This is the mandatory thing, and any of this other stuff is extra credit. And sometimes, like if I have, like you said, a mama that's definitely in the throes of some postpartum depression or anxiety stuff, I'll say, you know what? I want you to hear me right now that we're not gonna worry about that at the moment. And here are the things we can control, right? And um, you know, this is my job to worry about that part. And, you know, that's been really comforting for for families to say, like, you just transferring the burden to yourself as the clinician was really helpful. Like, I've had moms tell me, like, I've told myself, oh, Autumn's got that. Autumn is gonna worry about that. And like, even just that, it sounds silly, but just that verbal act of of saying it out loud is really key because you're right, like we're not gonna get anywhere if you know, if if the family as a whole isn't taken care of.
SPEAKER_01Right, right. And I know that we are almost out of time because you're always in high demand, but I do want, can you tell me just a little bit about your plot the tot and how that kind of came about and what's so different about that before we end today? Because I think that would be very beneficial for people to hear about.
SPEAKER_00Sure. So I'll start. So our flagship course is TOTS training. So that started, I started that in 2016. And really, you know, there wasn't a course out there focused on tethered oral tissues. And so I created what I wished I had had. And over the years, we've had dentists, ENTs, pediatricians, lactation consultants, chiropractors, PTs, OTs, SLPs, myofunctional therapists is pretty much the usual suspects in the class. And so, you know, I kept people were like, oh my gosh, I love this course, but like what's next? They wanted kind of like a tier two, like a second level or advanced after that. And you know, as we all learn and integrate, then we evolve and we are looking for the next thing. So the other thing that I constantly was asked was like basically like, okay, I have all this information, but how do you make it work? How do you integrate that into your community, into your practice? And then the third thing I kept getting asked was for the providers in the room, you know, the nurse practitioners or pediatricians or ENTs or dentists in the room that were like, I'm so grateful to have learned all the functional side of things, but I'm the one doing procedures. How do I know when not to do a procedure? How do I know where to start, when to stop? How do I deal with this complication or this scenario? And, you know, clearly as an SLP, an orofacial myologist, and a lactation consultant, I don't do procedures. So I couldn't necessarily tell them those things, you know, I probably could just after learning a lot about it, but clearly I don't do procedures. So that was kind of where Plot the Tot was born from was answering those questions about integrating it into your community and your practice, the logistics of everything, you know, billing and referrals and scheduling and timing of everything, and then the surgical component. So I we teach it twice a year. It's myself and Dr. Ann Bynum of the Totspot. And yeah, it's a really fun class because you really get to see a start to finish. So we show an infant, a child, and an adult. We show their initial evaluations with me, their treatment, their surgical videos, and then you know, their after. What happens to them? How do we progress through? And so, really throughout the lifespan thing, start to finish, we do a full hands-on laser lab. So everybody, not just you know, the doctors and dentists, everybody gets to laser a frenulum on a pig jaw. So even, you know, therapists and lactation consultants that may never have the opportunity to really know what a laser is, how it works, feel it in their hands, try it out. This is a huge opportunity and and very beneficial for them talking to their patients about it. So, yeah, that's that's kind of the gist of it. So, yeah, that that's how that one came to be. We teach it twice a year in Greenville, South Carolina, where we are. A Greenville's just like a really fun place. Um, it like tops all the list on best downtown, whatever.
SPEAKER_01I'm gonna visit at some point. I just that's on my list.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, and it's a definite foodie destination. So and then you know, like it's just a lot of logistics, like as far as we have some guest speakers that come in, we have we have to bring the laser and pig jaws and all of that. That's just really hard to do traveling. Um I mean, it could be done, but yeah, it's a lot. Um, so we kind of do it on our home turf and it's really fun. We really value collaboration and networking. And so on the like after the first day that night, we take everyone to a rooftop bar overlooking the city and buy everybody a round of drinks, which is really fun too. That more connections can be made.
SPEAKER_01So it sounds like the like a really fun thing when you start to build your team for everyone to go do it together because together.
SPEAKER_00Yep.
SPEAKER_01That's one thing I'm looking for as I travel is where where am I gonna end up and where's my where's my team out there? I haven't quite found the right spot for myself yet.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, yeah, yeah. And you know, that's that's kind of the thing. Like, you know, if if you have some friends and like something funny happens and it becomes like an inside joke, when you like allude to the inside joke with someone else, they're like, wait, what? And they don't get it. And that's the same thing with these courses, is like, you know, one member of the team can come and then they go back and it doesn't quite translate. So definitely attending the course as a team is ideal because you can kind of process it together and figure out how that's gonna work in your community at the same time. You're hearing the same information. And so yeah, I'd love to anybody, any professionals out there listening, love to have you and taught training or plot the tot. We've got an advanced Maya course coming up, the Stones Approach. And then, you know, I always do consulting and mentoring one on one as well.
SPEAKER_01That sounds amazing. I'm so excited for you guys to offer this and for more, more education and support and networking to be out there. That's one thing that I'm amazed. I mean, I even traveling, I've seen some really amazing providers. Like, you know, when I met with Richard, I knew that I was really gonna just love spending time with him and learning with him. But then I'll go to some little spot and find this amazing provider that nobody knows about, but they're doing amazing work in their little community, you know. So it's just it's getting out there and we're building it. It takes time, but it's definitely getting out there, and there's definitely more support for families than there was a few years ago.
SPEAKER_00So I'm just I'm very evolved immensely, evolved immensely. Yeah, for sure.
SPEAKER_01So thank you so much for your time. I know you're I know you've got to run, you've got things to do, but thank you so much for your time. This was wonderful, and I hope our paths cross. I'm definitely gonna put Greenville on my list because it just looks like such a fun place.
SPEAKER_00Oh, yeah. Look me up when you're in town. But thank you so much for doing this podcast and and getting the word out there. It's definitely gonna, you know, help so many families.
SPEAKER_01Well too. Thank you so much. All right, have a good one. You too. When you change the way you look at things, the things you look at change you. I hope that you enjoyed the podcast today and learned something new. If you know someone who would benefit from this podcast, please share.