Ep 33 Adult Tongue Tie symptoms

In this episode, the host Katie Oshita, BSN, RN, IBCLC discusses her tongue tie symptoms and how this is affecting her treatment plan.  Tongue tie symptoms are generally pretty similar in babies and breast/chest feeding parents, but when the tongue tie goes untreated for years, and even decades, there is a wider variety of symptoms that can happen.  Katie also discusses her treatment plan that will include working with previous podcast guests Dr Maggie Davis from Florida Tongue Tie Center and Kendra LaGrande from Thrive Myofascial Release.

Podcast host: Katie Oshita, RN, BSN, IBCLC has over 22 years of experience working in Maternal-Infant Medicine. Katie is a telehealth lactation consultant believing that clients anywhere in the world deserve the best care possible for their needs. Being an expert on TOTs, Katie helps families everywhere navigate breastfeeding struggles, especially tongue tie and gut/allergy related issues. Email katie@cuddlesandmilk.com or www.cuddlesandmilk.com

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Disclaimer, this content is meant for information only and not as a diagnosis or medical treatment for any condition. If you are in love with needs help, please seek out a qualified medical professional for assistance. Welcome to the podcast. I'm your host, Katie Oscard, BSN, RN, IBCLC, and Infant Feeding Specialist. Quench your thirst for knowledge and travel with me across the nation to discover, learn, collaborate, and better serve clients from all over the globe. Let's ride and thrive together. So today on the podcast, I'm going to do something a little bit different. I'm going to start with really, this is just about my symptoms and my journey. If you've been listening, then you have noticed a very big tongue tie theme. You have also noticed that throughout the journey, I have also been discussing my own family's journey as well. So there's been my professional journey and my personal. My kids had their tongues released in April of this year with Dr. Maggie Davis at Florida Tongue Thai Center, who is fantastic. I love Dr. Maggie. And I had planned to do mine, but when I started body work, I started with some myofascial release, which is super gentle. If you've ever had myofascial, I describe it as a non-moving massage. They are basically holding their hands on your body to for three to five minutes to let the fascia underneath the muscles really move and relax on its own. And there's a lot more to it. You should listen to episode 32 by Kendra LeGrand, who's myofascial therapist and also my myofascial therapist. But we talk a lot about healing crisis in that as well. And how I went through a healing crisis when we started the treatment, my body just way overreacted. Like I have chronic pain issues and I've been working at it for the last, well, I guess you could say technically, the last 12 years, ever since it started. But the last two years, I've been really addressing my diet and trying to find my trigger foods and heal my gut and you know, learn everything I can about all of that process. Well, in March, when we started the treatment, my body just basically to me said, you know, flashing red light, stop, stop, stop, not ready for this. Like I went into a very inflammatory response. I had trouble walking and extreme pain for three days. And given that the release was supposed to happen about two weeks later, and I was supposed to have two more myofascial treatments, I said, hang on, this isn't gonna work. So we put everything on hold. We went through my kids' releases, which went really well. One of my older daughters is doing really well and has had, I'd say most of her symptoms have gone away. She had a lot more neck and body issues. Her palate was pretty good. You know, her teeth were having a little bit of issues, and we haven't gotten to the point of braces yet, which will happen in another year or two, and then we'll fix that. But now that the tongue is released, when we fix the teeth, they should be able to hold, right? Because she had a very big Eiffel Tower tongue tie that went up and really pulled those four front teeth on the bottom. But so she's really improved a lot. My younger daughter is still in palate expansion and still in myofunctional therapy six months later and feels a bit endless. You know, some days I feel like we've made really good progress, other days we haven't. I don't think we're gonna feel like we make that next jump with her until we get the palate retainers off, right? I mean, the whole point of doing the tongue tie and doing the myofunctional therapy is to make her tongue stay on her palate, right? To stay there when she sleeps, to expand and widen that palate, to hold it open, to do all the normal tongue functions. Well, it can't totally do that with a big plastic retainer there. So I'm not sure what the future is for her because we have our next ortho appointment in December when we're back in Florida. And then, you know, I will try to understand the next few steps. On this one, for her, it was so new for me, the palette expansion, that I've just tried to stay understanding where we are and maybe slightly the next step, but I've tried not to do my usual type A and like overthink the whole process. I'm just trusting our orthodontist who I really like, Dr. Alex Johnson, who also shares the office with Dr. Maggie in the Palm Harbor, Tampa area, Florida. And I'm just going off off of him and we'll just kind of wait and see. But I thought, you know, really April, May, I was like, I don't know that I really need my tongue released. You know, I was like, I don't know. I don't really have a whole lot of symptoms. Maybe I should just leave it for now. You know, I mean, do I have to do anything at the moment? How would I know if it works if I don't have symptoms, right? Well, as per life for me, when you voice something, even if it's in your head, I feel like that's where God steps in and says, Oh, you need this. Okay, here you go. I didn't have symptoms. I wouldn't understand how the tongue tie release was going to help me. Here we go. So I'd say in June, I started really noticing that my bottom right molars were really sore. And I've been to the dentist, don't have any cavities, everything's fine. I'm just clenching at night and I'm damaging those teeth. And I'm slightly worried that I'm going to break a tooth. Hopefully I won't, because we all know how painful and expensive that is. But I've definitely been clenching. I tried to wear a mouth guard, and I did for a couple of weeks, and it helped. But I noticed with the mouth guard, I was definitely mouth breathing. My tongue couldn't rest up on the palate, it dropped down. I was mouth breathing and I was waking feeling really, really exhausted. So, you know, that mouth breathing kind of comes and goes as it is. But overall, I have a really wide palate. My palate has no ridges on it at all, which shows that my tongue is resting on it. It's very nice and smooth. And I usually breathe with my mouth closed, lips sealed, and use my nose at night. So I didn't really want to switch to this mouth breathing with the mouth garden all the time because mostly I just wasn't getting rest. And I also didn't want to create a bad habit with worry that then I wouldn't get back to the other one, right? But, you know, I was just so tired. And that was kind of June and July. And then the, you know, what I felt like in a way was the impossible happened. We all got COVID. And if you followed me on social media, you might have even seen that the end of July. You know, I was totally convinced that my kids had some other virus. And my husband, I was like, you know, viruses exist. People have gotten sick besides COVID. Maybe we have strep, maybe we have some cold or flu, but nope, just COVID. Um, despite all being vaccinated, despite trying to be careful. And, you know, we do go out and do things non-masked. And I think that as much as we can narrow it down, my husband and kids brought it home from most likely the library of all places, because that's where we go when we do a lot of homeschooling at the libraries. You know, they have great resources, really fast Wi-Fi, nice study rooms. Like it's a great option. So, anyways, they brought it home, but we were all really sick, really, really sick for a week, and took two weeks to be mobile again because we really got, we just stayed in Michigan and we were just unable to drive. And then we started traveling again. We missed a couple of unfortunate things and meetups with friends, but you know, such as COVID life. And then I noticed in August that man, I was just having, I was coughing a lot. And the first week or so I kept thinking, maybe it's my allergies. I mean, we're I am literally in a new environment like every week. We usually move about every seven days. The next, oh God, the next two months, we're gonna move like every five, which is really fast for us. But, you know, I mean, every seven days I'm in a new state. I'm in a new environment. I've got new pollen, new trees, everything around me. So I figured it was just allergies. We also have pet rabbits. So I'm allergic to the hay, and I knew that, you know, that could be causing an issue. And I was like, yeah, you know, it's just in the evening. I'm just getting kind of wheezy. And I was coughing a lot. I wasn't really wheezy much, but you could hear sound with breathing, but it was upper respiratory. And I kept like I used the inhaler a couple of times because my husband's asthmatic, so we had it at home. Didn't really clear it up for me. Then I even got some molin tincture because I trying to learn and choose holistic options when whenever possible. And I had read about molin for allergies and asthma. And by the way, the one I got tasted horrendous. I'm sure there's better options out there, but it didn't really do anything either. And then I was doing some reading and I came across something about larynger esophageal reflux, L-E-R, and I was like, huh. And then all of a sudden I had this total light bulb moment. I mean, you practically see the bulb flashing above my head. And I was like, oh my God, I have reflux like all the babies I see. And my, you know, posterior tongue tie must be pulling on my hyoid bone and causing, causing reflux, causing gastric upset and reflux. And I've, you know, I like I said, I've spent the last almost two years now working on my food. I went through an autoimmune protocol diet. I had food sensitivity testing, I've done an elimination diet down to like 25 foods that I was not reactive with and added foods back in one day at a time. I have, I mean, I'm now vegan. Like I've spent a lot of time on my food triggers and taken out a lot of stuff out of my diet. Even within being vegan, I still can't eat cauliflower and soy and mustard and chickpeas, and those are all things I miss, but such is life. So when I started realizing I had reflux, I was like, oh my God, what am I gonna do? I can't take out a whole bunch more foods like tomatoes. I need pasta sauce, I need salsa sometimes, like I need chili, I need flavor. But I've had to make some changes and it really sucks. So let me talk about this reflex in the adult world because it's totally different than what the babies, I mean, it may not be all that different, but the babies can't really explain it to us as well. So what I was feeling and still feel some days are better than others, is a lot of upper respiratory congestion. It's like, it's like I'm wheezing and I can't catch my breath and I'm coughing, but it's in my throat, not my lungs. And if you actually close your mouth and sit there and breathe really slow, like you know, I'm exaggerating because I want you to hear it, but you should breathe silently through your nose. But if I do that, I'm not wheezing. Like if you listen to my lungs down at the basis, they're totally clear. I have good oxygen saturation, you know, that nurse training can't go away. Um, but I am still like you can literally hear noise when I'm trying to talk or when I start coughing in my throat. It's all in my throat and it's all my esophagus. And I'll get in these coughing fits and they just feel horrible. And it feels like you have to swallow. So I noticed that this explained why I always drank so much water with meals, right? That I always feel like I have to swallow. So I would just drink a little bit of water and drink a little bit more water and drink a little bit more water. Unfortunately, I was also taught that you needed to drink a lot to help your food digest, which is the exact opposite of what we know now, right? That those digestive enzymes we have get diluted and then our food doesn't digest as quickly. And we really should be drinking a lot of water in between meals, but not with the meals. Let me tell you, that's been hard to adjust to as a really prolific water drinker. I mean, I probably would drink my whole water bottle, so 24 to 32 ounces of water at every meal. And I've had to stop doing that. That's helped dramatically. You know, I've I've done a little bit of food stuff, but I really haven't wanted to take out a lot more food because I'm on a limited diet as it is. I also don't eat sugar really. Maybe once a week or once every other week, I'll have something with a tiny bit of sugar. You know, I use coconut sugar at home, or I will use some honey or maple syrup, but I don't use cane sugar. It's too inflammatory for my body. So I was kind of hesitant to take out more food. But one of the things I recommend for babies and started using for myself, which has been great experience for me as a provider to be able to talk about as well, is slippery elm. So slippery elm is the bark of an elm tree. Um, it comes in a little powder. You can get them in capsules, but I will tell you from experience the capsules don't help. Um, the reason being is what you need to have happen is that elm powder needs to get mixed into a liquid, right? So I add a little bit of water, stir it. If you're adding it for a baby, you can mix it in with some breast milk. That'll add a nice flavor. I add a tiny drop of honey. Don't do that if you have a baby under a year. And then I swallow it, but I need it to coat my upper GI system. I need it to coat my whole esophagus. So if I take a capsule and then it dissolves in my stomach, I mean, I guess it's gonna help my lower GI, but I it's not where I need it. I did when I was having a lot of trouble getting finding the powder, I was able to open the capsules and I could mix those. And so that has worked as well. But I finally just got a big giant bag of slippery elm powder and I take it twice a day, mix it with a little bit of water, tiny bit of honey, and I drink it. And it's really not bad. It's not my favorite taste, but you know, it could be worse. And that has helped me dramatically because I was having a lot of pain from the damage. Now it doesn't get rid of the reflux, right? It's not curing what's happening with the reflux. It is, on the other hand, healing my esophagus and trying to reduce the damage that I've been doing, because we just think of it as an inconvenience, but all these things cause damage in our bodies. So it has been helping a lot with that. And then I also added from life extension, I added Esophacool, which is a dietary supplement that has does have some calcium and magnesium, but it also has licorice, which helps with the digestion. And so I take that after meals, and that's helped dramatically too. I'm also adding a few other things. I'm adding some mastic gum, and I'm adding, I'm adding a few herbs that are the right ones for me at this moment. You know, ashwagandha is a great adaptogen, so that feels like a good choice for me. I've been taking a lot of herbal classes and holistic classes and trying to learn how to heal myself and how to have more holistic and herbal understanding for my family, right? I think these were herbs were people's medicine for thousands of years. And in the last 150, 200 years, we've pretty much lost it. And I I want to learn it. I want to learn feels connected to our history to learn all these wonderful herbs that can heal us and can help. So, you know, that's what I've been doing personally, but the reflux symptoms, terrible. You know, I've spent many a night sitting up on the couch completely fully upright, coughing all night and not able to sleep much. And, you know, dealing with the mouth breathing and the clenching. I will definitely say that while I wasn't feeling if I should get my tongue released, I am now. So I have definitely decided to move forward with my release. I contacted Dr. Maggie Davis. I was gonna see her in December, anyways, when we were down there. And I said, Hey, how do you feel about releasing my tongue? And she said, as long as I was, you know, prepared for it and she knew I knew what to do. So sounds good. So that is scheduled for December 13th. I'm really excited. It's also good for me to have the date as much as I wish it was tomorrow, a little bit further out. Because in the meantime, I need to do my myofunctional exercises, you know, three times a day. I'm working on all sorts of things like tongue sit ups and fish slips and fat skinny and all these different tongue exercises and cheeks and movements. And I'm also working on just strengthening my body and trying to help my body be in a non-inflammatory state, to feel nourished, to be well rested, to, you know, I do a meditation app every night before bed, you know, just general good health, right? And really trying to nourish my body so that it can handle this stress, both the stress of the symptoms right now and also the stress of the release itself. I have appointments set up for myofunctional therapy before, or sorry, myofascial release before and after, once I get down to Florida, and I'm excited for that. I'm really slightly nervous because of last time, but I feel like my body is in a very different place than I was six months ago. Very, very different place. My body is much calmer when I do, you know. I mean, even six months ago, if I were to go on a short hike, I might not be able to really move or do anything the next two or three days. I really might need to lay on the couch with my legs on a heating pad and really have a difficult time functioning. So I had to always plan that with, you know, do I have clients the next day? Do we have to drive? What are we doing? Whereas now, if we go on a small hike, it might just be the next few hours that I'm really down. And then my body says, Oh, okay, I'm healed up. I can get going again. And, you know, I don't have quite the strength and endurance that I would like to have, but I do feel like my body is recovering and it is improving and it is, I think it's calming down. I think my body for so long has been in such a crazy inflammatory state that it just overreacted all the time. You know, it was that constant, constantly full bucket that anything that came along spilled and I was, I couldn't handle it. So, you know, I do feel like my body is much more prepared. I will, I guess not totally secretly, but admit to you guys that I'm slightly nervous to have my tongue released, but I can't really be too nervous. I made my daughters go through it. So, you know, I've seen it and I'm really trying to just equate it to, in my mind, other dental procedures. Like I've had I've had root canals and I've had crayons. So it really can't be any worse than that, right? You know, I watched Dr. Davis do both my girls' releases, and you know, it's a little bit weird to watch it and and to see the muscle get cut and everything else, but they weren't in pain and they did really well. We used some homeopathy pre and post-release, and it helped not only with pain, but also just in general with healing, and that was really beneficial as well. So, you know, I feel prepared. I feel like we have a date set, we have a lot of stuff set. I know that'll take a few days off where I don't see clients for a few days because there's a lot of talking in telehealth, and this way I don't have to worry about that. I can just rest my tongue for a few days and then get back to work on myofunctional therapy. So, you know, I'm excited for that. I'm hoping that it's really gonna help my reflex and my clenching. I also need to remind myself, like just like I do with my clients, that it's a process, not a procedure, that going and getting my tongue done on December 13th does not mean on December 14th and from then on I won't ever have reflux again. Oh, how I wish it did, but it does not. So I need to understand that in order to have all those things changed, I have to also change how my body moves, how it functions, you know, how is my tongue working? Where is it resting? What's it doing? How is my the rest of my body, you know, all of the things of like adjusting, having my hyoid adjusted, having my, you know, intraoral stuff and my palate adjusted and all of those types of things and really making sure that my body is as ready as it can be, but that I go into this really calm and not inflammatory, because even how we feel and how we think can really affect our body so much. So I don't even want to think really stressful thoughts. I want to stay calm and I want to feel good about it, and I want to know that this is the next step and it may or may not get me to where I want to be. And if not, then I will look at what's after that. But for now, this is this is what you know I'm working towards. And hopefully this will help my body a lot because adult tongue tie symptoms really suck. And I've talked to a lot of different adults, you know, a lot of the tongue tie providers have actually been touched by tongue tie, some of them themselves, others of them, their children or friends, or you know, someone that they know. But so there's been a lot of a lot of adults and a lot of lactation consultants as well in this tongue tie world have all started to notice, hey, that's what I'm dealing with too. What should I do about it? And so a lot of lactation consultants in the tongue tie world have had their tongues released. So there's a lot of support and there's a lot of knowledge sharing, which is really awesome. I think there's so many adults out there that are suffering from like sleep disorder breathing or sleep apnea, adult reflux, other oral symptoms, and just so many issues, speech, sleep, digestion, so many things. And, you know, I it is not the answer for everything. Definitely not the answer for everything, but it is one piece of the puzzle that does affect a lot of other things. You know, I mean, your tongue affects digestion and it affects your sleep and it affects your airway. And when you affect your airway and your sleep, you're really gonna affect growth and development. You're gonna affect your mental health and your mood. You know, when I don't sleep well, let me tell you when I have a night where I'm up on the couch till 4 a.m. A.m. coughing with reflex, I don't have a whole lot of patience the next day. I really don't. I don't feel good and I'm cranky and I'm tired. You know, there's a lot to be said for how many people are probably functioning on less than optimal sleep. And I think that it's something that we need to start looking at and trying to understand why, why are so many Americans really exhausted? You know, what's going on? And I think it would just be, oh, it would be lovely if we get to the point where all providers were understanding about tongue tie and its symptoms and ramifications and understood how to assess for it. Not everyone needs to treat it. I mean, that is totally fine for that to be a more specialized thing, but they need to understand what it can look like, how it can look different, and how to assess for it. For example, when I recorded with Dr. Jesse Whitkoff at Colorado Tongue Thai last year, he talked about his nasal symptoms. He had sinus surgery like four or five times, and they couldn't figure out what was going on, and he kept having this sinus surgery again and again. And I don't think sinus surgery is all that comfortable. I mean, that sounds pretty horrible, to be honest. And he said finally he had his, you know, tongue looked at and talked with somebody else, and one thing led to another. And, you know, he did his myofunctional therapy and had his tongue released and has not had another, not only another surgery, but he's not had the symptoms back. He said he feels so much better. And, you know, and I've talked with other providers where I think it was Dr. Alyssa Sacker at Team Tongue Thai in San Diego who said that she had her tongue released but didn't have the buckles done. And it wasn't until she started having receding gums that she had her buckles done. And six months later, the gum receding was gone. You know, so there's other symptoms that can happen for people, and it can be really different for each human. I mean, we're all so different, anyways, but how it affects our body can be so vastly different. Some people have the GI symptoms, some people have airway, some people have sleep, some people have nasal, like some people have the body symptoms of the head and neck tension, unable to really get full range of motion. Like, you know, I know someone who said the minute it was done, all of a sudden she felt like her neck was totally different and she could turn. She said, driving, it was the first time she could turn and look over her shoulder without pain in her life. I mean, even my older daughter said during release, wow, she said, my right foot feels totally different, mom. And I was like, really? Tell me more. And she's like, I don't know. It's just, it feels like the left one now. And I didn't know that they weren't supposed to feel like that. I mean, when you've always felt a certain way, how can you know what normal is? That is your normal, right? So I think that's really interesting and telling in itself, right? It's so interesting when everyone has different symptoms, but it would be absolutely lovely if we got to a point where providers could at least assess or could assess for symptoms and then even say, hey, this, you know, you've got eight check marks in the tongue tie box. Let's send you to someone who might know. I mean, how many people are out there right now that could use this assessment? Millions, really. Because really we should be assessing everybody. And then if they don't have anything fantastic, you know, then we can look at other things. It is not everything, but it's important to, I say, to clear the field, to understand that this can affect. And then if it's not this, great, move on and look at what else it could be. For example, I'm working with a client right now with a um two and a half month old. And when we started working together, baby was about three or four weeks. And we had assessed for the tongue tie, done some pre-work, had the tongue tie released, had good results afterwards, and yet we still weren't getting to where we wanted to be, you know, and she was we were trying to figure it out. And we started looking at some dietary issues and started pulling a few foods out of mom's diet and talking about healing mom's gut and had huge improvements. And we had come a long way from where we were initially to, you know, I'd say dealing with the tongue tie probably got us 75% of the way, but she was still having these GI symptoms and looking at her food and working on healing the mom has gotten us the rest of the way, right? So it's it is very important to not be blindsided, to to not really pigeonhole everything into it's only and always about tongue tie. It's important to understand that there are other things as well, and that you know, we need to look at other symptoms and and really do a definitive diagnosis and really look at things, but it can affect a lot of people and does. It does affect a lot of people. And I mean, even just this reflux stuff, guys. I know two other people who I I've said to recently, two other adults, that I'm like, hey, your cough and you're clearing your throat after every meal sounds a lot like me. And you might want to check out some of this information on laryngeousophageal reflex. That could be what's going on with you. Might want to check into it. You know, I think so much in this Western medical system, too, in this allopathic system, is we hand over our power to the doctors and we ask the doctor everything. And in that, we also assume that they know the answer, right? And in learning some of this holistic and especially herbal medicine, I feel like I'm taking back my power. And I'm I'm deciding what herbs I should add for myself. I'm, you know, I would like to work at some point with a naturopath, but at the moment, I'm really enjoying learning and discovering for my own health. And I think it's really important. I think it's very beneficial to feel empowered to take on your own health, to look at all the options. I mean, my food elimination diet and the adding the food back in and everything else, no one really could do that for me, right? No one could give me those answers. It was taking the foods out, adding them back in one at a time every day or every couple of days that got me to where I am now that I can understand and say, yeah, I can't have chickpeas. If I eat chickpeas, I'm getting a headache for four days, you know. And I tried them about two months ago and a month before that, and two months before that, and I'll wait and try it again later as my gut starts to heal. But for now, I know that it doesn't work for me. But nobody else could have given me that answer, right? And it's that knowledge that understanding your body is really very empowering. And I really wish that for everybody. You know, I think there are a lot of providers in this tongue tie world who are also struggling with their own tongue ties. And as an adult, we there's a lot more delay from realizing we have a tongue tie to dealing with it, or at least I hope there is. And there should be. You know, we have decades of compensations, decades of doing things differently. So going out and getting a release the day you realize you have a tongue tie is not a good idea. I mean, I have the next couple of months to really focus on it and really work on it. And again, I thought I was doing it in April, and that wasn't right either. And I spent the next six months really just working on my general inflammatory diet, what was bothering my body, how can I calm everything down? And now I really will start gearing up for this with myofunctional, myofascial, and really getting ready for it. But I think it's really important that we have that time and that we understand that it's not, again, it's not a pro it's not a procedure, it's a process. So there is a lot to be done beforehand and afterwards. Unfortunately, it's a lot of time and money and appointments and phone reminders to do my myofunctional therapy three times a day. And it's a lot of work. It really is. But our health is the biggest gift, right? And the number one thing I can do for myself is to feel better and to be able to enjoy the life that I have or the life that I want. And so for me, there's nothing that I would rather put my time and effort into than my health. You know, I will enjoy my family more. I have more to give to clients, I have more energy to work on the podcast. I can actually get out and occasionally go on hikes and, you know, explore and see things. And I just, I feel so blessed. And I just wanna, I wanna say that, you know, working towards excellent health is an amazing, wonderful process. And it's not something that we can get in a pill. It's not something you can get from a provider, from a doctor. I think it's something that you have to be part of that process. So that is that is how I feel about, you know, kind of general health stuff and now my adult tongue tie symptoms. I'm I would love to hear if you guys have questions. And you can feel free to reach out to me through the podcast, through my website, you know, Katie the Traveling Lactation Consultant. You can send me messages on Instagram at Katie the Traveling Lactation Consultant. I would love to hear your experiences as well as adults going through tongue tie releases and how different that is and you know what the process has meant for you. I think that as we all start sharing our stories, we will empower those wondering about it, right? Those who are going, oh, should I do that? I don't know, that's a big step. What do I do? And the more we all start talking and normalizing this and really discussing and prioritizing number one airway health, then I think it will really empower others. And hopefully it will also shine a light on the lacking allopathic medical system and help them start to understand and start to prioritize airway health and tongue function. I mean, our tongue is a muscle and an organ. It is a lot like our heart in that way, and it's incredibly important. And I think it has been pushed aside as really not even important for so long. I mean, even if you just think about, you know, the doctors who were supposed to deal with it, the ENTs, they literally took out the mouth, their ear, nose, and throat. They literally don't do anything with the mouth. They gave that to dentists. And I find that whole concept so surprising. I mean, our mouth is the beginning of our GI track. I mean, you would think that GI doctors would care about your mouth, right? Because if you're not chewing your food well, you're not going to digest it well. You know, I would think that, you know, your your airway doctors would really care because if you're not breathing well, you're not going to feel well. You know, there's so many things that it affects, and I think it's just super important. So I would love to hear people's stories and comments and questions and anything. So feel free to reach out to me anytime and I will keep you updated on my journey. The next couple of episodes are going to be really exciting. I've got some great stuff coming up. I've got a lactation consultant next episode, which is going to be really exciting. I've actually got a couple of lactation consultants. I'm also taking my first in-person class with Jennifer Toe next week, which I am super excited for. I've taken all of her classes virtually, and now to get to do one in person with her is really wonderful. And I've got a few other really exciting podcast episodes coming up. And then, like I said, in December, after I have my time released, Dr. Maggie and I will record another episode together talking about the adult side of it because she does see more children, but she's doing more and more teens and adults now with so much need for it. And I just think that she's so wonderful. You know, I mean, obviously I do, or I wouldn't be entrusting my kids and my own health to her. And she's such a truly caring, caring dentist as well. So that, you know, we'll have an episode for that to really talk about what it was like on my side. What did it feel like? You know, how did how did it feel during the release? What were the days like it afterwards, and where is this going to go for me and what does it mean for my health? So keep following along because that should come out if if I have my release in December as planned. That'll probably come out sometime in January. And, you know, I wish everybody well. And anyone who has tongue tie symptoms or stories or questions, please reach out to me. I would love to hear them all. So hope you have a great day. When you change the way you look at things, the things you look at change you. I hope that you enjoyed the podcast today and learned something new. If you know someone who would benefit from this podcast, please share.