Katie The Traveling Lactation Consultant
Katie The Traveling Lactation Consultant
Ep 94 CST with Meaghan Beames
Use Left/Right to seek, Home/End to jump to start or end. Hold shift to jump forward or backward.
Craniosacral therapy (CST) is something that few people understand. CST comes from Osteopathy and is a gentle, rhythmic movement to support bones and the cerebrospinal fluid moving within us. CST is gentle and focuses heavily on the head. Meaghan Beames is not just a practitioner of CST, but a leader and teacher, who wants to help many more providers learn this gentle bodywork to support babies. Katie Oshita and Meaghan Beames discuss how this gentle therapy helps with feeding difficulties, tongue tie, mastitis and more.
Podcast Guest: Meaghan Beames who is a Registered Massage Therapist, a Craniosacral Therapist and has been treating babies with CST since 2018. She owns a private clinic in downtown Toronto, with a team of 3 other Infant CST practitioners.
Meaghan is the founder of Beames CST Training Centre, where she teaches health professionals in the perinatal space to use craniosacral therapy on babies. Her mission is to ensure that there are highly qualified Infant Craniosacral Therapists in every city in North America and beyond, so families can avoid the common struggles that are easily addressable, like colic, reflux and feeding issues. She's a mom, a competitive cheerleader, an indoor rock climber, and she can't decide which is better, tea or coffee.
Podcast Host: Katie Oshita, RN, BSN, IBCLC has over 25 years of experience working in Maternal-Infant Medicine. While Katie sees clients locally in western WA, Katie is also a telehealth lactation consultant believing that clients anywhere in the world deserve the best care possible for their needs. Being an expert on TOTs, Katie helps families everywhere navigate breastfeeding struggles, especially when related to tongue tie or low supply. Katie is also passionate about finding the root cause of symptoms, using Functional Medicine practices to help client not just survive, but truly thrive. Email katie@cuddlesandmilk.com or www.cuddlesandmilk.com
Disclaimer, this content is meant for information only and not as a diagnosis or medical treatment for any condition. If you or a loved one needs help, please seek out a qualified medical professional for assistance. Welcome to the podcast. I'm your host, Katie Ostadt, BSN, RN, IBCLC, and infant feeding specialist. Quench your thirst for knowledge and travel with me across the nation to discover, learn, collaborate, and better serve clients from all over the globe. Let's ride and thrive together. Megan, tell me, how is CST really gonna help a baby? Like, what is it gonna do as a lactation consultant? I'm seeing babies that are struggling with feeding. So why would I send them to CST? How is that gonna help them?
SPEAKER_00So one of the reasons why a lactation consultant, I am not an LC, so I'm not gonna say what you would see, but what I hear from lactation consultants is that they notice a baby who has a tight jaw, or they've got, they don't open wide, or they're not latching well, there's pain. And so they say, Oh, well, go see CST and hopefully they can help get this, you know, loosen up the jaw. So that's one of the reasons why they come to see me as a as a CST. And what I would say as a CST is there's a reason why this jaw is tight. And what we do as a CST is find the reason why they're tight. It could be many, many different things, but this baby uh just went through being born, however, they were born. And a lot of times this shows up as muscle tension. And so we as CST practitioners, we find that underlying muscle tension. It could be muscle, it could be fascia, it could even be underlying emotional tension. And we help release it so that the body moves better, they can open the mouth really wide, their tongue has better functioning. And overall, the the feeding experience just gets mainly a lot better, but sometimes just a little bit better.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, that makes sense. Uh recently, so I have not always had cranial psychotherapists who were experienced with babies near me. And recently I discovered that I have two. Um, and so I've started working with them more and sending babies and kind of communicating as to, you know, what am I seeing? What are they seeing? And definitely noticing, like you said, one of the big things is that jaw opening wide, tongue movement, definitely as well. But like, it's really hard to get a baby to effectively feed who can't open their mouth. It's just not going to get well.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. And a lot of times they can't open their mouth wide because it hurts them. It feels really uncomfortable. It's not even just muscle tension. It's it's painful for them to open a mouth wide. There's if you see the babies who yawn when parents are like, oh, they only yawn, or they only open their mouth wide when they yawn. Watch their reaction, that baby's reaction right after they yawn. Do they have a little squeak? Do they cry out a little bit? Usually that's a sign that there's pain associated with this opening the mouth wide. So we, yeah, we like to look for those, the reasons why it's painful or or tight.
SPEAKER_01Absolutely. I also find that, you know, too often people will say, well, my baby won't do this or my baby won't do that. And I'll say, Your baby can't, right? Babies are human babies are designed to breastfeed. Whether or not the parent chooses to, that's a totally separate thing. And I'm I'm not negating a parent's choice, of course, but we're born biologically meant to breastfeed. So if a baby can't open their mouth, it's because they just can't. It's not a choice that's they're doing the absolute best they can. And I feel like that's an important thing to remember for babies is that they are always doing the best job they possibly can with what they have.
SPEAKER_00Absolutely they are. That's that is their, you know, modus operandi. Like they are doing the best that they can. And sometimes the best that they can is falling asleep, you know? And that's because it they are overexerting themselves, trying to latch on, trying to feed with muscles that are not getting proper signaling from the brain to them. So they they get very weak, or they are very weak. And so they get very exhausted, very tired, and they fall asleep. But that's because they are doing their best to survive.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. Baby falling asleep with the breast is actually, I tell parents this all the time the baby that falls asleep with the breast is smart, and they're like, What do you mean? I was told that my baby's lazy. And I'm like, No, they're conserving energy so that they can have it for when they need it. They're not getting food right now, so they're gonna stop doing the work. That's not that's not laziness. That's that's very smart. That's survival, right? We don't keep doing work without reward because we're just wasting our energy and our calories, and babies are built that way, that they are gonna always strive for survival. So when a baby falls asleep with a breast, it's very clear to me that there's a reason, right? That something's going on, baby's not getting food, and we got to figure out why. But that's a smart baby to conserve energy.
SPEAKER_00Super smart. And a lot of parents are like, well, I mean, my baby was just born. What could possibly be going on with them? Right. We a lot of people associate muscle tension, tightness with years of doing the same thing over and over again. But that's not, that's not the only way that we can hold tension in our body. With um new birthing processes, uh, by new, I mean epidural in the 90s and in the 2000s, these can put excessive pressures on this baby's cranium in their neck, all the way down their spine to their sacrum. It can uh it can really, if this person who is pregnant has lots of stress in their life, like who doesn't, um cortisol is is something that actually uh creates contraction of muscles, right? So there could be constrictions within this baby's body, within their abdomen, that could even be limiting how much range of motion they have in their abdomen, which goes all the way up to their throat, their neck, their tongue. And and so we're noticing a lot more babies who are having trouble with feeding because of these excessive pressures put being put on them during labor. Now we see fewer uh of these like excessive muscle tension and pressure for babies who were perhaps born caesarean, um, who didn't experience any labor contractions, but they have their other things that they're holding on to, other reasons why they might seek out craniosacral. So again, it's not just one thing that creates this muscle tension for these babies, it could be a number of things. High blood pressure, um, sitting a lot in while this person is pregnant, this baby, if if they're in a womb that is stagnant and doesn't move a lot, they also don't move a lot. So a lot of times they're gonna get stuck into a position. And even just holding one position for a long period of time, let's say weeks, for these babies, you know, late in the third trimester, and they're holding this one position, their shoulders could get really tight, their neck could get really tight, they could start developing tortocolis in utero, they could start developing head misshapenness in utero. And these all of these things result in not just trouble with latching, but it's also trouble with digestion, it's trouble with meeting developmental milestones, it's trouble with tummy time, it's trouble with, you know, making eye contact, lots of different things. And those are the things that I'm always really looking out for when it comes to babies who are coming to me just for lactation, is because I know that if lactation or if feeding, breastfeeding is an issue, there's so many other things that are very likely going on that I can help with for this baby.
SPEAKER_01Absolutely. I I definitely agree. And I would go back to your point about the parent and pregnancy. And I would say that a lot of this is not just definitely the labor and the birth matters, obviously, as well, but so much of this is happening before that. And it's before it's either during the pregnancy and sometimes it's even for the parent before they get pregnant. The lack of movement and the lack of real wellness is a huge issue. And I see it with clients all the time. And then they have these babies that have, you know, tons of tons of feeding issues. And a lot of it is this fact that our generally the population I see is seemingly, it's not quite unhealthy, but it's like we're just not well anymore. We're not sick, right? There are some. I definitely see a huge rise in the triad of PCOS, insulin resistance, and hypothyroidism. So I see a lot of that. But um, in general, even clients who don't have that, I feel like they're still not, we're still not well either. Like, you know, once you start talking to they're like, well, yeah, I, you know, I don't, I don't have great digestion or I don't sleep good, or no, I I don't really feel great. But, you know, I mean, I'm busy, I'm working. This is what happens in life, right? You know, it's like we brush it off, but so few people seem to be feeling well anymore.
unknownYeah.
SPEAKER_01But I think that translates throughout the whole pregnancy and throughout the birth. And the level of inactivity is just getting so much higher and higher that it's, you know, you're not getting the movement that people used to get. And the babies in utero aren't getting that movement. And it's that domino effect, right? Because if you're not moving in pregnancy, you tend to have a harder labor and get more interventions and then lose out on movement. And then the baby loses out on a lot of the birth movement and all of these things, just one flows into the next, right? So it's it, it's a it's a big cascade in a dominoes. And I it's hard to say where it all starts, but I definitely think it's all very related.
SPEAKER_00And I also don't want to be like, you know, blaming people for what their birth is like, because I know that that's also not helpful. And and so other reasons why babies could get stuck in a poor position are uh, you know, previous injuries. So something you have absolutely no control over. Let's say you had an accident and you're well, you were, let's say you were 15 and you fell, um, or you were 20 and you fell, our sacrum isn't fully formed until we're around 25. So it can actually get shifted into a less optimal shape. And then that plays a huge factor on what's going on within our bodies. So if if we get this jarring on the sacrum or on our bottom or even on our one side, on one leg, it it can mis, you know, cause our sacrum to become misshapen. And now we've got twisted ligaments, or we've got, you know, ligaments that are tighter on one side than the other. And this baby is going to go off to one side or kind of get stuck and tucked into one side. And so it's not always something that you actually have control over. It's something where it's like, yeah, well, this thing happened to me when I was 15. And now I have this twisted pelvis, and now this baby is, you know, having to essentially pay for it because of that, you know, accident from 20 years ago. So I also don't want to play that blame and shame game because it it could be very physical reasons why that we don't have control over why this baby doesn't get into a good position. Or doesn't develop in a good position. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, absolutely. And I don't think there is, I definitely don't mean for there to sound like there's any blame here. I think that um the the wellness that I speak of, it's like I'm not seeing, I'm not seeing that in medicine anymore, right? I'm not seeing people getting well and feeling really good with a lot of the allopathic providers. And, you know, I do tend to have now, I have a pretty large client base that is um home birth or birth center, because I work at a birth center. That's where my office is. Um, and so I do tend to see more clients that are kind of holistic and naturally minded as well. And, you know, there's definitely some differences in their labors, but I find I was also a labor and clever nurse for um 15 years and then a NICU nurse. And looking back and then looking at studies and everything since leaving the hospital, if I had to pick one domino, what I'd say that tends to affect labor for the parents so much is monitoring. Um, you know, the once someone gets on a monitor, like let's say they're walking around and someone's, you know, they're being intermittently monitored, it's called, so they're just kind of checking the heartbeat, you know, once an hour or every two hours, depending upon stage of labor and risk factors. Well, at some point, most of the time it seems that somebody will hear potentially like a D cell or they may just have a hard time finding baby or whatever. And so then they put the parent on monitoring. And from there, most of the time the cascade that happens is once they're on monitoring, then they have to stay in bed. And once they stay in bed, they're in more pain. And then they get an IV and some pain medicine. And then that leads to an epidural. And a lot of times, even from there, then that leads to, you know, um, a stall of labor or a rest of descent, they call it the heads not moving down, right? And a C section. And it's it all stems so quickly. And it's like you can almost watch it all unfold for so many that it's like once they have this one moment of being trapped in bed, everything gets harder. And yeah, everything gets harder when you're trapped in bed and you can't move around, right? Um and actually I I brought that up the other day with a client because we were talking about how we're trying to get baby to to do a movement to extend the head back into a kind of like a guppy pose. And we were talking about movement. And I said, you know, it's hard when you're trying to do something that's hard on your body, doing it without any distraction or movement is harder. I was like, think about sitting through a labor contraction in bed versus sitting through a labor contraction, bouncing on the ball or being able to stand up and walk or, you know, move your body. Um, so you know, I think we forget about that too. Movement helps so much to distract, but also to kind of support your body and to disperse that pain rather than to just kind of sit and absorb it. And movement is so critical for parents and babies. And that's what I see with a lot of these babies is they're just not getting movement. And there's so many things right now where, you know, we sell all these things, especially in the US. Maybe it's not as common up there, but down here we've got these snooze that strap a baby in and shake and rock and, you know, play music for a baby as opposed to allowing them to physically move their body. And then we wonder why they're so uncomfortable.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. And I want to go back to the constant monitoring, right? And so not only does this person who's in labor who is now being monitored continuously, they are also very, you know, sedentary. They can't move very well. But that person is supposed to be moving so that the baby can move, right? This baby is an active participant in descending or trying to descend the birth canal by turning their head left and right, tucking their chin, extending. They are wiggling and wriggling in order to get through this pelvis. And the pelvis has mobility if you are moving, right? You can they, you know, as your knees open, so too does your, you know, the lower part of your pelvis. And as your knees widen, the upper part, you know. So we've once this baby doesn't have a partner, it's almost like skip rope, right? Like or jump rope. The person is they're doing battle dutch, right? So there are people turning and now you're trying to jump. But if there's no one to turn, how are you gonna you're just jumping, you know? Right. So it it's like that they no longer have this birth partner. And then they get very stuck, and that's where that arrested descent, I guess you'd say. And um now they're gonna that they get stuck in that position, and but the contractions don't stop. So now they're stuck in this position, and the contractions further, kind of like the snoo, further push them into this poor position. And then, yes, we have the snoo up here, and I tell people to sell it. Right. Like, oh, listen, get your thousand dollars back and come see me a few more times, and your baby will won't even need the snoo. Um, but we're further keeping this tension in their body, and movement is what's helping to get it out of their body. And more movement equals more movement. Right. So a baby who can't move well, we want them to move as much as possible. And and so bringing it into CST, what we do is we find those areas of tension. It could be the spine, it could be the anterior portion of the spine, it could be within the visceral organs, it could be within the rib cage, it could be in the hips, it could be in the throat, it could be in the in the cranium. People are like, oh, cranium or sequence must be the cranium. It's not, it's everywhere. Um, so we find it and we release that that tension. And that fascia that was tight moves better. And so with increased range of motion for this baby equals increased functionality, usually. Uh, we're we're also working with fascia that surrounds nerves. And these nerves are what send signals from the brain to the muscle to work. And if the fascia surrounding the nerves is tight, the the messaging from the brain to the muscle is not going to work very well. It's not going to be a clear message. And that could look like a baby who has weird peristelsis in their tongue, right? Like very uncoordinated. Or the ones who can't coordinate a sex well breathe pattern. Um, there are many things that go into that, but it could be fascial tension around this nervous system that's causing this disorganization. It can also look like a baby who doesn't poop every day or poops way too much in a day. You know, the ones who just have a smear in their diaper every day. That is that to me is a sign that something is off in their intestines and they're just constantly working on something. More the ones who are skipping. Yeah. And and I I will not accept that breastfed babies skip poo days, and that's fine because they're breastfed. I say, no, absolutely not. There is, there's got to be a, you know, um, a mix in the signal somewhere from the brain to those intestines.
SPEAKER_01Absolutely. Um, the fact that there's nothing in the literature to show that it would be normal for a baby not to poop. And one of the wives' tales that still gets passed around is the idea that breast milk is so perfect you don't make waste. And I'm like, that's impossible. Every being makes waste. And waste is not just about the food that we consume, it's also a detox pathway. It's also about getting things out of our body that we no longer need: celoptosis, all sorts of things. Like, this is not just about calories. And, you know, it's unfortunately as a general rule, I still hear from clients all the time that their pediatrician said as long as the baby poops once a week or, you know, every two weeks, they'll be fine. I'm like, this is not fine. Like, how would you feel? And if you went days without pooping. And then that actually a lot of times gets a conversation going with the parents about how often they poop. And they're like, well, it's not. I I poop every other day. And I'm like, okay, hang on. Okay, talk about what normal poop is supposed to be like. And let's talk about how our body is supposed to be able to move and feel good, right? And and these babies should be pooping. And that's one that I see an awful lot, especially with tongue tight babies. There's so many parts that go into it when we're having trouble feeding. So we may be getting slightly less volume. We may be getting, and even if we're getting an adequate volume, we're getting in a lot of air usually with the feeding, right? Because We maybe don't have good lip seal, good tongue function. And so we're getting an air, which is, you know, messing with our digestive tract. And then our tongue, which starts our peristalsis for the gut, is really choppy and chompy and not moving in a nice wave-like pattern. And so our gut is not moving in a wave-like pattern. And the whole body is holding tension. And all of that rigidness is slowing down the digestion. And so all of it goes together. It's not, it's not one, it's not, you know, you pick one or the other most of the time. There's a whole mix of reasons that the baby isn't pooping, but they all center around this type of stuff. And they need, they need that movement to come back to movement as being so key for life is they need movement, you know, and movement helps so much. One of the things that I used to see in the NICU, and I find it to be such an interesting paradox for the world, is that when I worked in a I worked in a level four NICU, every baby, every single baby sleeps on their stomach in a NICU. Yeah. Guaranteed. Because what happens is when you put a baby on their back, they don't digest their food well. And we know this because they have like little tubes and you're checking their residual to see how much of their previous meal is still in their stomach. And sometimes it'd be half, right? They're just not digesting their food. You flip them over on their stomach and you check it in three hours, they've digested all their food. They're ready for the next feeding. They sleep better, they grow better, they breathe better, they digest their food better. They're meant for that position. And then we send them out in the world and we're like, don't ever put them on their stomach again. It's a very confusing thing, but part of it still comes back to me as that movement. They need that slight pressure on their abdomen to aid in digestion.
SPEAKER_00Yes. And they need the pressure off of their sacrum. Right. But the nerves, the nerves, well, actually, there's lots of nerves that go to the intestines, but there are nerves that go down, travel down the spine and through the sacrum to the intestines. But then there's also the nerves that go from the tongue that travel into the intestines. And they need full functionality and movement. And so when they're on their backs, they're getting out of their primary curvature and they're putting more strain on their abdomen and more strain on the that nervous system. So the again, the signaling is maybe not optimal. And it's botchy, you know, like it's it's like there's patches of signaling. And so that's why there are some people who are like, oh, well, some days they poop really well and sometimes they don't. And I think how much time, how much extra time did they get either on their side? Because side lies is very similar. Um, how much time did they get on their side or on their tummies? Even chest napping, you know? Um, absolutely.
SPEAKER_01I mean, yeah, that's what I tell parents all the time. Like, I'm not a huge, I'm not anti-tummy time. I just think it can be overdone. And I think that especially in the first three months, the baby is meant to be prone on their stomach, but they're meant to do it on your chest as the parent, right?
SPEAKER_00Yes.
SPEAKER_01We're meant to biologically speaking, again, going back to parental choice, I'm not telling any parent they have to wheel their baby all the time, you do what works for you. I think it's important to understand the biology and to know where baby's coming from and to know what is our body built for? And yes, I think when you know what it's meant to have, and if you're not choosing that path whether it doesn't, maybe that path isn't available to you, then you, if you know what it needs and what it gets out of it, then maybe you can help get that another way, right? But biologically speaking, we're meant to wear our babies for the first really probably six months. I mean, you know, hundreds of years ago, you would never have put a baby down and walked away when they couldn't move. It's just not how we would safely keep our babies. They're meant to just be worn. And babies develop a huge sense of postural stability and core strength and neck and back strength when they're worn. Right. Right. So I think that there's there's a lot of really good ways to get all of that and to get that stimulation. Um, and and to be honest, and I'm not saying that it always fits, but in a lot of ways, baby wearing can be really beneficial for lifestyle in this day and age when we're trying. I mean, I try to encourage my clients not to do too much, but when we're trying to do a lot and when we don't have the support, and we may need to get up and fix lunch, and we may need to, you know, take the dog for a walk because we don't have someone who can come and do it, and all of those little things, baby wearing is a great way to be able to do those things and meet the baby's needs.
SPEAKER_00There are some people who are like, Well, I can't wear my baby because they don't like being in the carrier. And that to me is a sign that there is tension in their body. Absolutely. So clean body work. And that's where they need the body work. Um, or or they only turn their head to one side. Again, tension within the body that's limiting range of motion. And so if a baby is like, oh, super uncomfortable in whatever position that they're in, that's where the bod comes into play. Um and perhaps this baby might actually sleep a little bit better without being in arms if they don't, if this person is like, well, I can never put them down. Um, and they're like, Can I just have five minutes? Can I just put them on their back or on their side or on the temp for whatever amount of time? Because at the moment I can't do that at all. And again, I would say we got to find what's what's tight in their body, what's causing pain, what's causing them to have a side preference, only turn their head to one side and find it so that we can release the that tension, provide some relief for the family and and relief for the baby too. Cause it can't be, it can't be a nice enjoyable experience when you're just constantly in pain or only out of pain when you're in one position. Absolutely.
SPEAKER_01And I think that there's so much that the bodywork does for these babies. It's it's really huge. What do you what about the parent? Should they be coming into cranial cycle? Like, how does this benefit the parent at all?
SPEAKER_00Absolutely. So sometimes in my sessions, I will say, you know, it's probably really beneficial for you to get your your own session as well. And there are even some CST practitioners who will only treat mother and baby. And that because they are such a close dyad, they are essentially one entity. Uh and what affects baby affects mom. What affects mom affects baby. Sometimes the baby is projecting or or really just showing the actual internal struggles are of this dyad. And and so we have to work on the whole system, the whole unit, which is the mom and the baby. Um so yeah, so we will get them in. It doesn't always work out. Sometimes the baby is just like, absolutely not. I am ready to go now. Um, or it's hard to get them to sleep, or you know, for for them to really, for the parents to actually really enjoy the session. Um, but when we do, it's wonderful. They it helps again with things like digestion, post-delivery recovery, post-C-section uh recovery. Um it helps to, well, I mean, it helps to release oxytocin because you feel really good. Um, it also helps with circulation. So trying to get some of that epidural drug uh out of your system, um, metabolizing all of these things that perhaps you had put into you uh during labor and delivery, especially if there was C-section or if it was like 40 hours long. Imagine what was put into your system. Um so it can help with it can help with quite a number of things. And not only is it physical things, it's also emotional things. We as a CST practitioner, we sit very quietly as often as possible and just listen to the story. We don't even need to actually hear words for us to understand your story. Sometimes it's just a transfer of emotion. And when people feel heard, when people feel supported and without judgment, that in itself is incredibly healing. Sometimes people just need to be heard and it completely changes their experience or their view on the experience. And that I don't think I think that's invaluable really.
SPEAKER_01Absolutely. And I think that Ranial Cycle has the ability to help the body deal with that trauma. And I feel like not always, but so often, birth includes some trauma. Sometimes there's very little, other times there's a lot, but I feel like there's it's a fairly frequent thing that I'm seeing. And so to be able to give a place that can help the body let go of that, not just the mind, right? Because our body keeps score. It it remembers all of these things, whether we want it to or not.
SPEAKER_00I can't remember what the study was, but they found memory cells in one of the internal organs. I think it was the liver that they found memory cells in. So we're starting to see, you know, the studies coming out to support the fact that we can hold memories, not just in our brains, but within our body. And those memories, and and what you were saying about, you know, an element of trauma in every birth. And there's the big T trauma and the little T trauma. And the story I like to share with my own was that I had a from the outside perspective, right? I had midwives, I had gave birth on my couch when my mom was there, my husband was there. It was so beautiful. You know, I didn't have to leave the house. It was fantastic from the outside perspective. Internally, I was hating every moment. I was like, this is awful. Why did I do this? And I know people are like, well, you're in labor, like, of course you're gonna feel that way. But I was even in this state of beauty and you know what what some people would think of as the perfect setting for a birth, I still hated every second of it. And my body was not okay for a good two weeks until I got my own craniosacral session. And in it, I just I let go, right? I cried a whole bunch. Um, and and I felt no pain after. I didn't feel the same amount of pain in my hips and in my abdomen after that CSE session. And so again, the big T and the little T, we can't choose how someone experiences or how someone internalizes an experience. And we can't choose which T they're gonna get, you know?
SPEAKER_01Absolutely. And I think that being able to have somewhere to help the body process the emotions is huge because it's not something we really kind of generally accept that the body needs to do that. Like people will talk about, well, yes, you should process your emotions, and that's what therapy's good for, and all this type of stuff. But the trauma and the feelings and all of that stuff still lives in the body. So you can do your good work dealing with how you felt about it and what happened and your choices or lack thereof. But if you're not also allowing the body to deal with it, then you're you're only halfway there.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. And I think Freddy allows fully processing, fully processing and releasing of it. I'm not saying forgetting and but the release of it so it doesn't eat away at you for the rest of time.
SPEAKER_01Right. Absolutely. I think processing trauma is a really important thing. And sometimes we don't realize how deeply ingrained those things are and how our body movements bring those things back. For example, I um a couple of years ago, we had an accident in um when we were had an RV. We had a travel trailer, and um, I was driving at the time and the truck stayed upright, but the trailer did not. And it recently I was driving again through um just a just a regular day in the mountains and, you know, no towing, just a regular car, thankfully, again. Um, but my husband was asleep. He had fallen asleep, and the road was kind of windy. And he jerked awake at one moment. And like I could see the flash in his eyes of like, oh my God, it's gonna happen. I'm like, no, no, it's okay. And it was just the bit of him being asleep and the turning, and I, and I had very lightly braked in the turn. It wasn't like there was nothing aggressive about the driving at that moment, but it was like his body remembered some of these movements and it went, you know, 20 steps ahead and jumped to a place of trauma and fear. And afterwards, you know, later that evening when we talked about it, it was like, I didn't realize you were still having trouble. And he's like, I didn't realize I was still having trouble. He said, I thought we processed the accident. And I was like, we did, but apparently your body still has a little processing to do.
SPEAKER_00And it was that slight jerking that in his body that he felt that that triggered that memory. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. And it was just like this completely visceral body reaction and not at all cognitive, right? But that is that last place, I feel like, where trauma lives that we sometimes ignore. And we think about all the other things, the other steps up to it of dealing with like what actually happened, how we feel about what actually happened, how we feel about what happened after that, and just all of our emotions and like our reactions to others in that time and just all of it, but we kind of ignore the body's part in it, which is kind of ironic because the body has a big part there. And it's really necessary to get the body to have an opportunity to work through these things. And that's not something you find everywhere. It's not something that's even talked about. So I love the part where CST offers that and it gives the body a chance to let go of things like that.
SPEAKER_00And I also want to say is that it gives the body a chance to let go of it without you having to be re-traumatized, meaning that it doesn't have to come along with talk therapy, where some people are like, well, I don't want to talk about it again. I don't want, I don't want to share this story with anyone again. I just want it to be gone forever. And with CST, we can access those things without being consciously aware of it. We can quietly support while your body releases and lets go of it. Uh, and and that is the beautiful thing about CST is that we have no idea what we're going to experience in a session. We have no idea what things will change from it. But usually the outcome is deep healing. And and so life, when we don't have this baggage, we can go through life a little bit easier. And sometimes a lot bit easier.
SPEAKER_01Absolutely. And I think it's it's such a big thing for people to experience in such a gentle way. So I've had all sorts of bodies, you know. I I've had my own tongue tie journey and I also um and my kids, and then also do this with clients. And so I've wanted to experience different types of body work, both as just a practitioner and as someone who needed the bod. I've had um, I'd say my primary side um types of body work that I've experienced was a lot of chiropractic and a lot of um myofascial release. And it was just recently, um, I think maybe about a week and a half or two weeks ago, that I had my first cranial sacral appointment ever. And it was definitely not what I expected, right? Um I was I was surprised at how relaxing it was. Um and it was just a really very, very gentle experience that I went into kind of thinking, well, this really isn't gonna do much. I mean, I that sounds terrible, especially as a practitioner, but I I feel like I was thinking it would do more for babies because they're young and they don't have, you know, decades of holding their body a certain way. And so I was kind of like, well, it's gonna be very gentle. I don't know that I expect to see a lot. And I I think in my head I was thinking that, you know, to get results, I would have to have a lot of um treatment. But I was surprised at how it felt with one. And I think there was that emotional release as well. And that was really, really interesting. And I think what was kind of like you said, I didn't have to relive trauma to get there. I didn't have to sit there and go, oh, remember when that terrible thing happened to me? It was more of just like, oh, there's something really tight or unpleasant here and now it's gone. That's right.
SPEAKER_00Sometimes people will, in their own sessions, will get memories and it might bring up some of these memories, but it doesn't mean you have to talk about it in the session. You can just remember on your own. Um, and in that remembering, you're processing and letting go. That's really cool. And however, I do want to come back to you where you said, you know, decades of holding patterns. Yes, there are some times where you do need way more than a baby because the baby will let go really quickly. Yeah. Um, we can see them like turn to butter um within 20 minutes of a session. And we do, we as adults definitely do have much stronger holding patterns and and compounded holding patterns. But it's amazing, like you said, what is possible with just one session. And and the other thing is that we have been trained to believe that in order to feel better, we must actually hurt a little bit before we start to feel better. Meaning, it's gotta be a deep tissue massage. We gotta have this quick manipulation of joints where we're actually really scared that we might get decapitated or something. Like it's we're um we're trained to believe that these are the only modalities that work, uh, you know, aside from physio with the strengthening and and stretching and that type of thing. But even in that, people think, oh, well, I have to exactly you have that. Or like, oh, we've got a stretch ultimately point of pain. Exhaustion and pain. Yes. And it's like, so when we do get into a craniocycral therapy session, it's hard to believe that it does anything. It's hard to believe because we've been told the opposite to be true. But it's like crying on someone's shoulder, you know, they don't have to even touch you and you feel amazing. It's it's like a really nice, warm, gentle hug. They don't have to hurt you for you to feel better. And when we get into the physiological aspect of uh our tissue, um, and that's fascia, fascia has collagen and elastin. And elastin is a fiber that releases really quickly, but collagen requires a very long hold duration. And because fascia is also a uh tissue that is incredibly wise and smart and reactive, if it is put under duress, so like stretch, strain, um, tension, it will react and it will contract, meaning it will just get tighter. And so this is why sometimes we might feel good after one of these deep tissue massages or chiropractic adjustments, but then it always just kind of comes back. And that's because we didn't just sit with the tissue, tell it it did an amazing job at what it was designed to do, but that it no longer needs to do it anymore. And that's not done with a forceful hand, that's done with a supportive hand, with a quiet observance, really, and suggestion. Absolutely.
SPEAKER_01And I think it can be so um so profound to allow something gentle to be profound, right? To to look at it and go, like you said, it doesn't have to be big, hard, painful. It's open. Okay, for me to sit here and for this to be gentle and to acknowledge that it can do good things too. Right. So what are what are some of the reasons that you see the parents, right? Why would you see a breastfeeding parent? Uh so there's plugged ducts.
SPEAKER_00Um a lot of times there's so that that has a lot to do with the baby's latch, but it doesn't feel good anyway. But it could also be, you know, lack of movement within the actual breast tissue. Um, there could be they come to me generally for birth trauma. Um, and they don't come right after birth. It's usually they come a couple of months after where they're like, I'm really struggling. I wish they had come sooner. Um, you know, I'm really struggling with this, I don't know what to do. But everyone in their own time is ready to process what happened. Um, some will come for uh headaches, especially if there was a epidural leak or a spinal, like they there was a leak in the CSF. Uh, we don't want to do a whole lot with that because we don't want to increase the leakage. Um, but after things have, you know, if things are healed up, we can um we can help with the pain, the residual pain, um, headaches. Uh they come for weak legs. So after an epidural, a lot of times people are like, oh, my legs feel like they're bricks. Um, or they cut with restless leg syndrome um after epidural. Uh post-caesarean, they might not have sensations uh back. Another one who actually just came recently, uh, didn't have the sensation to urinate um or helping her. She's back on it. Another one who had uh she called it her Gucci Gucci. So she had the catheter because she couldn't urinate. Um, working with her. There's some trauma, but sometimes they just come because they're curious. They just want to know what it is gonna do for them.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. I think um definitely the plant ducts, the mastitis, the engorgement, those are definitely things that I've seen cranial sacral be really supportive of because sometimes there is there's just that lack of movement and ability within the breast to allow things to move. And there can be multiple causes, but uh even on the same person, like they can have multiple things all happening, but cranial sacral can help facilitate some release and allow movement again. And then we can work on those other underlying issues that may have contributed to it.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, it helps with all of them. It helps with both parties too, you know, like it's not just it's not just one thing that we're working with, it's helping both of them. And uh, it also, I would say, helps with bonding. There there could be some resentment towards self when you can't feed. And then how is that going to affect the relationship? And so if if we can improve feeding outcomes, then we could probably also improve bonding.
SPEAKER_01Absolutely. And I think there's so much in the space of um just the emotional co-regulation of a system and all of that. And for example, I have I have two clients um this week whose babies are both having branectomies. And we do a lot of talking about um everything from, you know, wound care and exercise, making sure we're ready. But I also spend quite a bit of time on what to expect those first 48 hours and comfort care and how can we support babies through this? Because, you know, one of the things that they're kind of, I feel like shocked when I say, but that I I'll tell them we can address the pain, right? But once the baby's pain-free, they might still be crying and they're like, why? And I'm like, because their nervous system is fried, because they've just had a trauma that they weren't prepared for, and because they can't regulate their system and you are a co-regulator, right? So like they have to have parents' nervous system and that, you know, birthing feeding parent is a little bit higher in that hierarchy of, you know, really survival and safety and security. And so when that parent is also not feeling calm, it can be really hard. And like, you know, I'll tell them this is a it's a good lesson for life. Like it is really hard to calm a crying baby when you're crying. And that applies to toddlers and teenagers and all the other times. You know, you can't calm someone down when you're not calm. And so I'll talk through with the parents about, you know, ways of regulating their own nervous system, right? What can you do? And sometimes it's truly just hand off to a partner if you can, or to a family member and go take a few minutes. But that we need to understand that the parent's nervous system needs to be addressed because that's how the baby's nervous system is going to function. Right. And so I try really hard to make sure that when my clients go in for release for the baby, that the parent feels prepared. So of course I want to make sure the baby's ready physically. I want to make sure the baby's gaining weight and has the tools that we've gotten as much movement, strength, and endurance as we could pre and all of those things. But I really want the parent to feel good about it, to feel ready. Not that they're ever excited for their child to have a procedure. And I don't mean that, but they feel like they can handle this. They know what to expect. They have lots of tools, they know when to ask for help, right? All of those things. And I think that those are really important because unfortunately, I also see clients that will reach out when they've had, especially from where I used to be in California, they'll reach out and say, Well, we had a, the baby had a phrenectomy a month ago and it's not any better, right? And those are ones that go in really unprepared. And they didn't have bodywork beforehand. They didn't have lactation on hand, they didn't know what to expect. And they just generally don't get a good outcome. And that's something I try so hard to avoid with my clients. I want to make sure that they're going in as prepared and supported as possible. And that means supporting our nervous system. Yeah.
SPEAKER_00Absolutely. And we also coach parents on how to regulate themselves, but it's regulating themselves and the baby at the same time. So like you, you know, working with that, the polyvagal theory. And especially when it comes to stimulating that vagus nerve. I think a lot of people are familiar with the vagus nerve now, but the what the number one thing that I give parents is to hum. And that's humming. It's such a great reach. Yeah. Yeah. And so humming, because the the vocal cords are so close to the vagus nerve, they sit right beside each other, it stimulates that vagus nerve and helps to regulate your or bring you into this parasympathetic nervous system activation, right? So you're now you're in this rest and digest. And especially if baby is laying on their chest, I actually, what I really love to do is like tuck the baby's eyes into the neck of this person who is humming, because then they also get a little skin to skin. So they get skin to skin. You don't have to be completely naked to get skin to skin. Um, so the the baby's face is in the neck. Um, and then this person is humming. So they've got skin to skin, they've got the warmth, they've got the breathing regulation, they've got the heartbeat. And now they also have the humming, which is stimulating this baby's vagus nerve. So that is one of my go-tos to help parents with regulating their own nervous system.
SPEAKER_01Not the only thing, but it's right top. I love humming. And actually, I have this routine that I've started with my youngest before bed, where we do um, we do a couple minutes of four, seven, eight breathing and working on slowing down our our inhales, elongating our exhales, and then we'll end with humming. Yeah. And uh nice. Well, that's very sympathetic. Yeah. Right. It's so funny because at first we both felt silly doing it, and then we started to feel better and better and like gets us into that place of like, okay, now I can quietly listen to like we have like a sleep story that we all like to listen to um before we, you know, or as we drift off and everything. But it's it's so nice and it really does help. And it's one of those things that I'm like, there's tons of science behind it too. Like humming actually increases your nitric oxide and then it increases the amount of oxygen you're getting out of the air and all of these things. So it does all these other things, right? Plus the vagus nerve stimulation and so many things. But I'm like, there are simple solutions. And I feel like even the humming goes back to movement. It is still like a little bit of a movement. And when you were talking about, you know, regulating that baby and parent together, one of my favorite things that I teach clients is rhythmic movements. And rhythmic movements, you know, I'll talk about how rhythmic movements are very natural that we rhythmically move with babies. We rock them, we pace, we pat their back, we hum to them, we bounce them, right? These are all rhythmically moving. But a lot of times when I have a baby that doesn't like a movement, and I'm like, that's really kind of what we're looking for for this baby. We'll do it through parents' body, right? And I find great results that way too, because I'm also getting it's like a sneak, right? Like I'm getting some work in on the parent's nervous system.
SPEAKER_00You know. They are also getting rhythmic movement.
SPEAKER_01Right. And it's a great way of bringing in some relaxation. I also tell parents when we're doing these um rhythmic movements and definitely oral exercises too. A lot of times I'll encourage them to either sing or to turn on music. And I'm like, it doesn't matter what you want to listen to, turn on your favorite playlist, whatever it is, you know, sing twinkle twinkle if you can't think of anything, or ABCs. But music also helps release endorphins and lower our cortisol and increase our dopamine. It tells our body that this is a happy, wonderful time. Like it, it basically sends anti-stress signs to the brain. And it's like, no, no, this is a fun thing. And all of those coupled together can make a big difference, right? Like when I teach a parent a movement or an exercise, if they're feeling really stressed about it, if they're like, I have to get this right, like I need the baby to be able to feed easier, or I want to make sure I'm doing this right for them, that kind of stress is going to come through. And so that's where I bring in things like music. And I'm like, let's let's make this fun. You just look at your baby and sing some songs and do a little movement, but there's no right. There's right in this moment for you too. Yeah. And don't worry about your voice. They aren't judging. No, babies are just awesome. There's no judgment. They just love you for showing up. Yeah. I think movement is so key for them. And so the more we can get parents and babies moving together, it's and it doesn't have to be big movements. It doesn't, like you said, it doesn't have to be big and painful. I'm not talking about going to the gym and lifting weights. Little movements is a great way to start. You know, rocking with your baby, taking them on a gentle walk, and even just swaying or sitting on the yoga ball, right? Getting those movements together is such a wonderful way to start, you know, co-regulating that nervous system into a nice calm rest and digest.
SPEAKER_00Mm-hmm. Absolutely. And massaging. I think a lot of parents are like, well, I won't do it right. Well, if you're doing it as gently as possible, it will only feel good. If you're if you're going in thinking dip deep tissue for this baby, it's probably they're not going to enjoy it.
unknownRight.
SPEAKER_00But they're touching your baby. Oh, they will tell you. They will not be shy about if whether you're using too much pressure or not. But if you're gentle enough, they will, they will also tell you. They will also start to feel relaxed. They will also start to soften and move a little bit better. And I think, you know, parents are like, again, they're worried that they're going to do it wrong. But if you're doing it as gently as possible, you won't do it wrong.
SPEAKER_01Exactly. And I so much of it is just about enacting to your baby, watching for the signs, letting them show you these things because they show us in little and big ways. And there's for every time they cry, I feel like there's a good at least five subtle signs before that, right? Of holding their breath or getting stiff or getting hiccups or all these little things where they're telling us. And so if we just slow down and watch them and try to connect with babies, it can be, it can be really great for the parents. And so I love, I love the gentleness that CST brings with the nervous system and that connection with the parents. Me too. It's my favorite thing. Right. It's such a beautiful thing. And I think that, you know, we didn't even get to touch on it, but I'll just put a little note in the show notes when put a little link to your website that you are a teacher of cranial sick role. And so you can help share your gift with others so that they can go out and we can start getting more and more babies and parents feeling good. So if you're interested in CST, look at Megan's website, which I'll link in the show notes.
SPEAKER_00Thank you. Thank you. Yeah, there are I get phone calls from people in the States. I live in Toronto. Um, and I get phone calls from people in the States being like, who is your nearest, you know, provider that you know of? And sometimes, because I am teaching a lot of times people in the States, their nearest provider is like six hours away. And there's such a need for this type of work. It's becoming incredibly popular, uh, a lot more well-known and a lot less like, oh, this is some weird stuff. It's like, oh no, actually, there's like proper results coming from this. Um and so there's a there is a need for more CST practitioners out there. So yeah, I uh I would love, I would love it if people even they could reach out to me on Instagram, uh Beams C S T. So Beams is B-E-A-M-E-S-C-S-T. Uh that's my school. But then I also have our private private practice in Toronto. Um, and that's my baby CST. So both of those will share a lot of information on what CST is like, how you can learn CST, and also how to talk to your clients about recommending CST.
SPEAKER_01Well, I think it's awesome. And I thank you so much for your time, both here on the podcast and the time teaching others, because we can only we can only do so much with our own two hands, but being able to reach more and get more families supported out there is just wonderful. So thank you so much for what you're doing. Well, thank you for having me. When you change the way you look at things, the things you look at change you. I hope that you enjoyed the podcast today and learned something new. If you know someone who would benefit from this podcast, please share.