This month we speak with three sibling employment experts to discuss sib employment and how we can best support and advocate with our siblings with disabilities. Our guests are:
Access the transcript of this episode here.
Resources mentioned in this episode:
Highlights:
In this episode:
This month we speak with three sibling employment experts to discuss sib employment and how we can best support and advocate with our siblings with disabilities. Our guests are:
Access the transcript of this episode here.
Resources mentioned in this episode:
Highlights:
In this episode:
Welcome to the Sibling Leadership Network podcast. The Sibling Leadership Network is a national nonprofit whose mission is to provide siblings of individuals with disabilities the information support and tools to advocate with their brothers and sisters and to promote the issue is important to us and our entire families. Hello, and thank you for joining us for another episode of the SLN Podcast. Today we will be talking about sibs and employment. I'm joined today by Ryan Rotundo, sibling and manager of employment programs at the National Down Syndrome Society. Byran Dai, sibling and CEO and co founder of Divergent and by Mike Carmody, sibling and executive leader of Opportunity Knocks. Thank you all for joining us today. Please start off by telling us about yourself, your siblings and your current work.
Byran Dai:Hi, everyone, my name is Byran. I'm the co founder and CEO of Divergent. And I've run a company that helps to build a job readiness platform. And this platform does two things really well, which is one, it helps young adults and adolescents with disabilities gain the skills that they need to become independent and self sufficient. And number two, is that we help employers become familiar about disability and neurodivergent talent, and actually help them to hire that talent into their organizations. And so divergent really is about serving as a technology bridge. And really, the genesis for this company is that I serve as, as I said, I have a brother Brandon, he's a 22 year old, autistic self advocate. For him, his goals have always been very clear, get a job, live his own life. Our mom passed away, back in 2014. And it really brought to life, you know, how challenging it can be for us as siblings to be able to work together to help make the transition into adult services, when you're having to step up to the plate. So for us and you know, for me in particular, that's really what led me here today are two divergent.
Ryan Rotundo:So my name is Ryan Rotundo. And I am first and foremost a sibling to an amazing young woman named Nicole who has Down syndrome. And we finally refer to that it's just this awesome extra 20/21 chromosome. And I've, I've really, you know, being the younger sibling, I think has sort of paved my career path in some ways and just life choices. At an early age I got, you know, became involved in Special Olympics and what we called buddy walks, which are some local fundraiser opportunities for the Down Syndrome Community, and later realized my calling to be a special education teacher, I had the the unique privilege of also being roommates as college roommates to some guys with Down syndrome. In the post secondary education program at the College I attended, which was incredible. I also had a chance to work as the general manager for a very dear friend of ours named Tim Harris, who has Down Syndrome and owned his own restaurant called Tim's place in Albuquerque, New Mexico serving breakfast, lunch and hugs. And so all of those experiences sort of culminated and I currently serve in a couple of different roles. One is a public servant in the state of North Carolina, a vice chair to North Carolina Council on Developmental Disabilities, and in in my day to day role with the National Down Syndrome Society as the manager of employment programming. And in that role, part of our goal is to really highlight success stories from the Down Syndrome Community, from people who have really excelled in employment, but also in self employment and starting starting and growing their own businesses. We also look to partner with private sector organizations, and nonprofits and other organizations to really create inroads for employment and increase inclusive opportunities within those organizations for people with, with of course, Down syndrome, but but disability more broadly, as well. So those are some of the things I get to work on, and happy to be here. Thanks for having me.
Mike Carmody:My name is Mike Carmody. I have a sibling who is 30... He just turned 35 with Down syndrome. And I work at an organization called Opportunity Knocks, which we provide after school and day programs for individuals with developmental disabilities.
Chris Berstler:So currently, just under 18% of individuals with disabilities in the US are employed, why do you think that number is so low?
Byran Dai:I'm happy to offer offer a couple thoughts. I think the you can look at it from really two, two perspectives. I think the first is from the employer side. What you're seeing is that although it's changing, you know, there is still that continuing bias. There's still the continuing concerns that you may hear companies articulate when it comes to trying to bring in extremely strong talent into their organizations. And it's, it's frankly, it's out dated, but it persists. I think what you're also finding is that there are really start to become mismatches around vocational pathways, where we aren't seeing that the vocational trainings have kept pace with where the job growth is happening. And so we're seeing that there are more dependencies coming up on digital skills, there aren't as many often meaningful work experiences, they're able to be offered towards individuals who are in high school or university, who are moving towards graduation, who have disabilities. And so those can really compound and B, a few of the factors that we've seen in our line of work, or why you're seeing sort of a persistently high unemployment rate.
Ryan Rotundo:Yeah, I think I think that's spot on Byran, and I'll ask, I'll add this to I guess, a perspective, from maybe the family, the family member side, and I would say that's sort of uncertainty, right. So you spoke about the job skill training and the readiness coming out of it, I would assume coming out of high school, that transition sort of into the world of employment, or for folks who are already experiencing, you know, the the real world and young adult life and trying to access employment, but maybe not having the right, or the most appropriate skill sets, I think training is certainly a factor, but then also, you know, access to information. And for families, I think there's oftentimes this uncertainty about the cliff, we call it the cliff, right? What happens after, you know, the federal laws and protections of IDE EA, are no longer covering or supporting our individuals and loved ones with with disabilities as they transition out into the community into workplaces? So, you know, a part of that is also, you know, thinking through, how do we access employment and still maintain other key factors that are supporting the loved one with a disability, such as benefits, you know, as many of the individuals that have a disability that might also be a part of the job seeker pool is our folks who are receiving, you know, better benefits and may not quite understand how earning could impact those benefits. So, there's a lot of misconception, there are a lot of myths out there about how those two things work together, and how they can be impacted by one another. So I think that a big issue for us looking at employment for people with disabilities moving forward is how do we get information into the hands of the individuals that have family members, and that there are, you know, there are institutions around the country, there are individuals who can help navigate through benefits counseling, with work incentives. And, and then, of course, we have a role called See, wicks are Community Work Incentive Coordinators, who can help sort of navigate and look at specific instances or individuals situations and help them navigate through some of that. But those are, I think, in short supply, given the the need for counseling, to help people really access employment without that uncertainty or without that fear of losing out on benefits.
Mike Carmody:I think in my experience, and my brother, I think that people are sometimes put off and not open to the idea of people with developmental differences and and instead, they're not utilized in an effective manner, I think.
Chris Berstler:Nice, thank you. What challenges or roadblocks do are siblings with disabilities face when trying to be gainfully employed?
Ryan Rotundo:So I think just real broadly, a plan, I think that one of the greatest roadblocks is, is having a plan and when I say that, I kind of you know, I'm speaking of several different factors of life, you know, a plan for accessing the community. So transportation can be a tremendous hurdle for people with disabilities seeking gainful employment. And it also, you know, you look at another piece and that is I mentioned before financial planning and being able to understand sort of, again, the impacts of earning, but also that that how do we budget how do we make everything that that comes into our, you know, our bank account or if if an individual with a disability even has a bank account, right, and statistics would show that individuals with disabilities are among the, you know, the one of the greatest populations that is unbanked, right, so being able to look at ways to build supports for people to not only earn, but to save, and all that requires a plan right, and then also thinking through some of the the aging population or the aging caregivers, the parents that are perhaps kind of guiding the way here and wanting to leave behind some some pillars of support for the loved one with a disability things like you know, coming up with special needs trust, right. So having a special needs trust and play Ace, so that all of these, you know, financial pieces are falling into place the way that they should be to support that individual with a disability. I think all of that comes into into play when we talk about just creating a sustainable, long term plan for our loved one with a disability.
Byran Dai:I think that's it. That's, as Ryan put it, that's huge. It's just that these are the kinds of topics and the kinds of areas that the non disability community, those who are not directly in it, don't give that thought about. I think what we're seeing, in addition, in parallel is that much of the social structure much of the much of the kind of norms and expectations around what does it mean to be employees are really built around that non disability population that neurotypical population, you know, that can be really anything from what is the appropriate social etiquette, or the unspoken norms that never get taught in any kind of a setting to this population, or about the way in which one even tries to be considered for employment. Now, when it comes to, perhaps how someone interviews, these are, these are really individual examples that are not all encompassing, but I think of them as sort of data points have a kind of broader, a broader structural challenge that we keep seeing, which is that there are inadvertent roadblocks, like it created for for ourselves. And it's, it's actually really incumbent on allies and self advocates together to actually be calling this out. And I think it's, it's some ways to go, but it's it is an active effort that, you know, is already starting to bear fruit.
Mike Carmody:I think in my experience in my brother, and I think with the people I've worked with, I think I'm, I think just getting the opportunity, and people being accepting and providing the space for them. To have that gainful employment, I think that there's been a lot of instances where people have been interns. And I think that people, I don't think people really see what the person with a disability is totally capable of, and the skill sets that they do have. And taking the time to develop, or taking the time to learn those skills, I think is a big thing that I've seen that we could do better, as is human race,
Chris Berstler:Are racial discrimination and gender inequity concerns for our siblings as well?
Byran Dai:I can share it from the perspective of what we see, especially across autism across awesome, the different neurodivergent condition categories, you'll absolutely see unbelievable imbalances when it comes to areas like diagnoses, access to clinical medical care, which directly affects access to services, that is a direct correlation to communities with higher racial diversity, you're seeing that that is a minute, those go hand in hand. And that continues to persist even to this day. And what you're also seeing within this is that even when somebody gets access to a clinician than the autism community, you know, there's a significant under diagnosis among females compared to males. So I think when it comes to our siblings, perhaps in my case, I have a brother, we are in a community in which we've had the good fortune to be closer to those kinds of those kinds of medical services I growing up. But the idea, that's the norm, you know, that's really more the exception. And so I think we really, you know, owe to ourselves to be mindful of that. So absolutely, I'd say that these are big concerns.
Ryan Rotundo:Great answer, Byron. I don't know that I add much to that, actually.
Chris Berstler:what role can siblings play in supporting their brothers and sisters with disabilities in employment?
Ryan Rotundo:I've been waiting for this one. So I'll start us off if that's all right. So for all, all the parents listening, maybe put your ear muffs on for a minute. No, I think I think you know, siblings, siblings are amazing. I've had the the honor of working with hundreds, if not 1000s of siblings over the years, in some of my work with the National Down Syndrome Congress, running their brothers and sisters workshop as a young man and just getting to kind of pour into these kids and help them sort of guide them through this curriculum of advocacy and education and empowerment. And, you know, I think that siblings are, we know they're the longest lasting relationship that a sibling with Down syndrome or another disability is going to have, right so there's just there's power in those numbers. And to build that relationship and to have these, you know, these lives in parallel, and, you know, I'll just say this too, that not every sibling, you know, decides to take a path like Mike or Byron or myself where they're, you know, kind of giving back in some ways to that specific need in the community or for their loved one with a disability. And that's totally okay. Right. But I think that there's also a good portion of sibs, who who take on this life of service or this, you know, at least in some ways, this, this peripheral, you know, protection of their sibling with a disability. And so I think that one of our first roles that we experience is just being able to encourage them as any sibling would do for their sibling, right, not just disability side, right, you're just encouraging you're building each other up and kind of helping each other along. And then the other piece is, and this is where I say, for parents, maybe taking the earphones off, serving his 10 years as a nurse put the earphones on, rather, serving in 10 years as 10, as a special education teacher of 10 years in the State of North Carolina, I had the opportunity to meet and have IEP meetings and these transition planning meetings with many, many families and, and professionals in the field. And this word just always came up. And it's it's a part of setting goals, I understand this, but the word realistic, right and setting a realistic goal for yourself. And it would just pay me sometimes to hear how that word was being used in some ways to put a cap on the abilities or the goals or the aspirations of the individual with a disability. And I get that it comes from a loving place, or of a place of saying, well, let's make sure we take this in stride and piece by piece and that sort of thing. But I think if we're not careful, oftentimes, I ran into situations where we had these, you've heard of helicopter parents, where we ran into a lot of lawnmower parents we call them, where they're mowing down everything in the path of their loved one with a disability, there's their son, daughter with a disability so that they never had to experience those challenges. Right. And, and part of that is also saying, well, that's not really a realistic goal. Right? And, and we heard this, I got to share the story a lot working with my buddy, Tim, his parents. And at first they said, Hey, Tim, what do you want to do when you grow up? Tim said, I want to own a restaurant. And at first they said, Well, Tim, that's not realistic, right? There's that word realistic, and, and then eventually, they started to take him seriously. And they tried to figure out a plan. And he's trying to put pieces in place to make it happen for him. And he did. And as far as we know, he's the first guy with Down syndrome in the world to own his own restaurant. So it's just part of, you know, helping your sibling with a disability again, just by encouraging them, but also maybe reminding the other folks in the room, that there are abilities beyond maybe what they see for that family member that loved one with with a disability, and sometimes siblings, I think, get a front row seat to that.
Mike Carmody:I think to add to that, I think one of the things that I'd like to stress with my brother and my parents, which has been really an area of opportunity is the idea of protecting. I think that a lot of times people with disabilities need to be protected. And I think what the one of the things that I've realized is that we need to set it up to where if we're not here, he can have some sort of tool to continue to move forward. And I think this idea of protecting and like paddling, I'm definitely someone who was my brother, especially like, I'm going to push him like you were talking about Ryan, I'm going to push him and challenge him. Because I know he can do more. And sometimes people give me that look like Wait, are you serious? And I'm like, No, this is this is how we're going to do it. And I think accountability and like not protecting are very important.
Ryan Rotundo:That's funny one, it's one thing if someone tries to push your sibling, you know to achieve or maybe out of their comfort zone. It's a whole nother thing when you get to do it. Right. Like I don't always like watching other people try to push my sister but but when I get to do it, it seems to be more motivating or something I don't know, to get that sibling past right. There's a huge piece to this whole barriers and roadblocks conversation in that is policy. Right, the legislation that undergirds the whole system and and some of these pieces of legislation that have been around and are really antiquated and have no place in the 21st century, particularly when we're speaking about disability employment, one of which is I'm sure, folks on this call and hopefully some folks listening are familiar with section 14 C of the Fair Labor Standards Act often referred to as the sub minimum wage or the commensurate wage law allowing organizations to pay individuals with disabilities a wage that is less than the minimum wage, simply based on the fact that they have a disability and it's based on an algorithm that that said to determine productivity level and all those things but history As an aside, the the overall focus of I think the greater disability community at this point in time is that there's absolutely no place for Section 14 C in any state or any area across the United States. So, you know, we have at the moment 12 states that have passed legislation to eliminate section 14 C, two states are sort of working toward it North Carolina, my home state being one that has come to an agreement with the Department of Health and Human Services to phase out these practices in segregated work settings, the state of Texas has also taken action to sort of eliminate some of these practices. And there's sort of two parts to this conversation. And I want to be really clear here, because I know that it can, it can be a point of contention in the in the conversation around section 14 C, but sheltered workshops and segregated work settings are oftentimes the setting through which these section 14 C certificates, which I should mention are also issued by the Department of Labor, to organizations that are hiring people with disabilities to do the work. These are often utilized within segregated work settings. And we understand that for some families, that feels like the best option. So you know, the case being made. And a lot of the work that I do with the National Down Syndrome Society is not that that is not a viable option. For some, we realize that some families do rely on on those types of work settings to support their loved one with a disability. What we are saying is that if they're going to be working there, they should be making a minimum wage, right? That is the, that is the point I think we can all agree on. So just want to bring that up. Because it's, it's easy to see how making, you know, as little as 22 cents an hour can significantly impede a person's ability to become financially stable. So that is a tremendous roadblock, when we're talking about employment for people with disabilities.
Chris Berstler:How can we as siblings best advocate with our siblings with disabilities, for inclusive and equitable employment opportunities?
Byran Dai:For all of us, here, we have that unique position of really being that built an ally, our voices that carry more weights, as family members, they're second only to self advocates themselves, that we are the ones that jump into employee resource groups, and companies, you know, if you're someone who on this podcast who's listening, who's at a fortune 500, or corporate entity, that's a responsibility that you can find yourself taking on alongside self advocates in that organization. I think, you know, there are platforms just like what's going on here with SLN, you know, it's about also normalizing the conversation more probably, even outside your company, around disability not as charity, but as a clear business value. I think that's really about making that narrative of, you know, there can be an impact. But you're also a company that needs strong talent, and strong talent is going to come from this community. And it's going to really add significant value to your organization. And so when you're seeing that kind of that kind of ally ship, you know, in which, like, with Ryan, like with Mike, where you are participating with service providers, you're doing a resume workshop with your, your sibling, your brother, your sister, you know, just being an active, contributing member, in pushing that idea of inclusive and equitable employment and sort of normalize that conversation. That's where you're gonna get, I think, a lot of value as a sin to make an impact. Or you can.
Ryan Rotundo:Yeah, and I think that's, I think that's spot on. And I also, you know, to whatever degree appropriate, I know that, you know, everyone has their strengths and areas of, you know, need for additional support and, and that sort of thing. And I know that, you know, I think I guess it's the greatest fear that people have is the fear of public speaking. But I would say that if you can encourage your sibling to use their, their personal testimony, there's, I feel like there are a few things that are as powerful as that personal testimony and maybe it's a testimony of overcoming and actually accessing employment or having success in small business, you know, ownership or, or maybe it's a story of struggle and how doors were closed and how, you know, inequities we're seeing through this process of trying to access the world of employment. And, you know, I think either way, again, just that personal testimony can be incredibly powerful. I was completely blown away and this is coming from a guy again, younger sibling of someone with Down syndrome, spent most of my life sort of in this field are dedicated to this type of work. And I was blown away when I got to the National Down Syndrome Society and met several self advocates who are on staff with us who have a resume that I felt like puts me to shame right, these are, these are young men, young women with Down Syndrome who are lobbying Congress who are staying Getting up and giving testimony in front of the lawmakers of the United States and saying this is something that needs to change and their testimony is powerful. So I think lifting up those voices and just encouraging them to share their stories can be very valuable as well.
Mike Carmody:I think you guys both have great answers. One of the things that I'm exploring this idea, and I'm sure other people have done this, too. But this idea of normalizing everyone, so we're all at the same level. And I think one of the things that I've seen is that we do this intro disabilities, training with our new staff, and all the different characteristics of all the different disabilities. And I think it's, for me, I always get a good laugh, because when I hear the characteristics, and some of the things that come up all the time, I always raise my hand too, because, like impulsive, like, Yes, that's me. And I think that idea of just kind of trying to relate to people, and persons with disabilities, and how we're all pretty similar. Once you really stop and like, kind of just take a look at the bigger picture.
Chris Berstler:How has the COVID-19 pandemic changed employment for individuals with disabilities and their families?
Ryan Rotundo:I can speak to kind of two angles of this one, personally, my sister having a part time job working at a hotel, in our, in our community and loving it, and it's an inclusive employment setting, she's, you know, she's got her routine of arriving to work on time and having a little bit of time before to kind of socialize with their co workers. And then she does her shift, and then she has some time afterward. This was also the place of employment, where she met her boyfriend of three years. So just a lot of, you know, great connection, and it's everything, you know, employment is, I'll say, also another key, it's a key factor of quality of life, but it leads to other key factors of quality of life, right, so that relationship building that that community and, and those relationships, so, but anyway, during COVID-19, she was the her hours were reduced. And in fact, she was told that she wouldn't be able to come in because the the hotel actually shut down for a number of months. So so it wasn't just a paycheck, right, it was these personal experiences and these relationships and, and so we found that she, you know, kind of became more withdrawn, and she was having a hard time not getting to see and be a part of the social circles that had formed within her her place of employment. So not so different than, you know, some of the things we might have experienced right during a lockdown situation where we didn't get to interact with folks in our community as much. So I would say that that was one of the most sort of personal experiences that our family had, and you know, talking with her on the phone and encouraging her and kind of helping her try to see the light at the end of the tunnel, even when it felt like there might not have been a very close light during the pandemic and some of the shutdown times. But But, but that was definitely something that affected her. And then I'll say this, too, you know, with my work at the North Carolina Council on Developmental Disabilities, we're starting to see now more than ever the lasting effects of a direct support professional crisis that we are in as a country, the DSP crisis, and that is the shortage of labor specific to those that support individuals with disabilities in to access the community. And to the point that we have council members who are very active advocates in our state who are a part of, you know, making decisions and how programs are formed and how initiatives are carried out within the state of North Carolina, who, again, self advocates, who cannot get to our meetings, because they don't have the staff, they don't have the transportation to help them get out of bed in the morning and get themselves clothed and changed and all those things. And that is a again, that is a crisis. And that is a direct impact of, of COVID-19. So, so that has definitely, you know, strained our system and put a lot of people in some pretty difficult situations.
Chris Berstler:Right, I was I was gonna absolutely highlight that DSP point. You're absolutely right, that you're seeing. There's so much competition for DSP talent. And you're seeing that I'm hoping what I'm hoping is that you're seeing states and you're seeing organizations sort of start to wake up to that reality. You know, these are this is a fingers crossed moment that it continues. Something that has kind of followed from that is with the additional funding that had come in from the the federal infrastructure bill is the beginning of States looking into expanding assistive technologies for the use by job coaches, by job developers, by community agencies and organizations, I think, in another sort of parallel way that we're COVID-19 sort of force is this digital this attempted to Digital Transformation among providers who support it support individuals with disabilities. And we're seeing, we're seeing that in the field in the form of more mobile based solutions, which help to keep somebody on track on a task list. Or we're seeing that being used as a way to for better time and administrative tracking for staff who are in the field. And that's been really brought into fruition by quite a number of RFPs by grants that have been going towards funding we actually ourselves in Arizona, are part of a grant with the the developer disability Planning Council around trying to expand access to some of these different technology products for helping folks continue their day to day. What in employment. And so hopefully, there's a continuing trend of it was kind of forced digital transformation is kind of forced innovation, leading to some more sustainable strategies. You know, even as a pandemic seems to get into a bit of an equilibrium here. How has being a sibling of an individual with disabilities impacted your own career paths?
Mike Carmody:I think for me, I think I mean, everything that I've done has kind of lined up with my brother. Going back to like, I remember a moment in third grade. This is weird, I always remember this, like I was, we were doing a parade around our school. And there was a young man with Down syndrome. And I gravitated towards him and I held his hand and we walked around the whole school. And I think from that moment on, I just knew there was a while I fought it, for some reason, I wanted to teach history. And that lasted all but about a semester. But I think that, for me, it's, it's just something I've known. And I've finally, say, 12 years ago, I accepted it. And I really relished the opportunity to be with my brother and his peers. And it just continued to grow and learn, and push for change and strive to create a better, because when I try to create a better life, for him, I'm creating a better life for myself, too. And it's, I think that's the thing is that I'm learning more and more just from him and his peers. So I'm just grateful for the fact that I woke up and accepted and realized the gift he had given me. When I was when he was born,
Byran Dai:I want to plus one that I'm in this path because of Brandon. But like Mike said, you know, Brennan, in many ways, helps me understand the autism community helped me understand and get connected more and more to the broader disability community. There are so many areas where allies can step in, I think, as siblings, we know we have in some ways that that unique opportunity to to be able to do what we can to offer our time off are all our resources to support not just our loved ones, but everyone's loved ones.
Ryan Rotundo:Yeah, I think those are some, those are some great answers. Mike, I love what you said, when I, when I try to create I wrote it down when I tried to create a better life for him, I'm creating a better life for myself, I think that is so so profound, and awesome. And it's it kind of goes back to that whole idea that, you know, disability rights are human rights, right? Like, we're not just doing this for a subgroup of people and saying, Well, this will make life better for them. This is this is going to, you know, the things that we're working toward the things that we're talking about specific to employment are, are to better the community and to better the workforce and to better companies and to better outcomes for all people. And what's really beautiful, I think about kind of this time to be in this time for change is that when we start looking at inclusion, right, when we start looking at inclusive education, and the impact that it has on schools and classrooms and communities, those future those are the future generations that are going to be CEOs, right. Those are the future generations of of HR professionals and higher employers who are going to look at hiring people who are differently abled, or people who have disabilities, right. So I think that when we look at kind of the way that this has impacted our lives, I think it can have a tremendous impact on other people as well. And back to your point, Mike, it just, it makes us all better. Right. So I think that's that's really important.
Chris Berstler:What resources or advice would you recommend for any sibling, any siblings or self advocates out there preparing to get out there and help each other find a good job?
Byran Dai:What I might say is, actually I'll maybe I'll try and share kind of two, two thoughts, which is that number one is that there are amazing service providers and organizations. Even on this call, looking out for Those type of services, I will just give one very specific suggestion, which is that we were starting to see a increase in the number of disability specific job boards and services. A great one that we know of is inclusively. There's also a new program, please buy Microsoft, which is not just for technology, but it's actually meant for kind of the broader, the broader disability ecosystem called the career connector. So those are some great places to start looking within those community organizations that are dedicated towards working with you looking for technology, if you're at home, which you might be able to use, you know, as well, those are, I'd say, strategies that we always recommend to always come to diversion is what is, you know, there are, there might actually be tools already out there for you. And we can I help you find that and get connected.
Ryan Rotundo:And speaking kind of from experience within the public school system, in the in the public service system, there are, you know, I think pathways that are more federal state funded services that would, you know, be more specific to disability employment, I'm thinking specifically of vocational rehabilitation, right. So, as a as an individual would go through the public school system and maybe get connected through pre employment transition services, which is sort of this this brand of voc rehab services designed to kind of help train and prepare individuals for the job. You know, they might get connected there, or they might get connected directly to a voc rehab counselor who could then help them through, you know, job shadowing, job sampling, applying to jobs in the community, doing mock interviews, things like that. You know, I think that there's obviously there are different services that are available in the community. Byron spoke of some, some private companies, and even some tech companies that are, you know, really entering into this space, I think, you know, full steam ahead and creating some incredible platforms through which people could get connected from the convenience of a computer, right, or a mobile device. But when it comes to actually exploring within the community, I think that, you know, voc rehab could be a good first option, it's probably when folks are most familiar with, I will say that, like some, you know, government operations, it does work pretty, you know, slow at times. But I think that that is definitely one that people would be would be familiar with. I also want to just mention that there are many coalition's and collaborations happening now between service organizations and NDSS, as a part of one called the CEO commission for Disability Employment. And we're one of the cofounders. And the goal is to just try to bring like minded organizations together, the CEO commission is sort of a top down approach, other organizations take on sort of like us, let's train the entire workforce. Whereas CEO commission is looking at, again, speaking with CEOs directly or leadership in HR, to talk about how to transform organizations. And one group that we just became aware of is random. And again, I don't know, I'm not trying to plug specifically but again, if it's going to help some folks kind of look through, you know, the Rolodex to figure out who can who they can connect with that might be another, another good one to look out for.
Mike Carmody:I think, just to add on really quickly what these guys are saying, I think this continuing to just throw out the information to people in different ways, because I think one of the things I've learned is that sometimes people are ready when people are ready. But if we make them ready, sooner than later, I think that helps in the process for everyone. All family members, especially sibs, because like, like you're saying, earlier, sibs are the ones who are going to have the longest relationship. And if we have those relationships with other sibs, it's easier to transition home for everyone.
Chris Berstler:Do you have any parting words of encouragement for current job seekers in our communities?
Byran Dai:I'm going to share maybe what I heard once I really liked, which is, it sounds like Dickert, discouragement, but I promise it's not. But this is hard. Finding a job and finding employment is hard. I think it's just worth saying that right now. It doesn't matter. disability and disability, finding a job is challenging. It's difficult. You There are days where you just feel dejected. And you are not alone. You know, this is something that we have found that there are so many organizations that there's so many people who are out here who are championing you who want to see you thrive, want to see you succeed. I think any single person on this podcast, if you're reaching out if you reach out to any of us, I think there's a lot of enthusiasm to make sure this doesn't feel like a journey that you're walking by yourself. I liked that because it's acknowledged is one that This is a journey. And this journey is winding. But there are but this also as a just objective hiring environment and employment environment is one that is looking for talent, like you. And so this is just this is really about knowing that we are here and that there are many resources that are here, looking for your success. And we're all excited to see you when you make it to the end.
Ryan Rotundo:You know, for the longest time, I, my sister wanted to have a boyfriend, right? Like that was her sole focus in the teen years, just wanted to have a boyfriend wanted to have a boyfriend. And sometimes I would ask it like, why do you want a boyfriend? She's like, I don't know, I just want to have a boyfriend. Right? Like, that was just it. That was her answer. She's gonna kill me when she listens to this, by the way. But, but that's kind of sometimes we get in that mentality, right? Like are our loved one with a disability is like I want a job, I just want a job, it doesn't matter. I just want a job, right? Or another kind of iteration of that is, I want to be a I want to be a doctor, I want to be a doctor and you kind of, you know, distill all this down. And it requires a lot of discussion, a lot of conversation. So it's a Byron's point, there are people that are that are already championing, you know the efforts of a person with a disability who's looking for employment. But a lot of times, that championing starts with a conversation of okay, well, why do you want a job? And what why do you want that job and it really kind of fleshing out those details. And sometimes, you know, you have these conversations I had, I had a student one time, he wanted to be a heart surgeon. And that was like, that was like their only focus. And, and then we kind of had all these different conversations and mapping out, well, what does a heart surgeon do? And how much do they make? And what is the education required? And what are the hours and all those kinds of requirements, things. And it came down to the fact that this individual was really wanted to have a white coat, it was the prestige of wearing the white coat, and being able to walk around a hospital knowing that you were the top dog, right, that you were the you were the one that was you know, had this, this sort of this really, you know, high level at the side position. So I think it requires, you know, a whole conversation around, you know, why desiring that job, but also, what is the job bring what's the value to this person's life? Sometimes we, you know, I know this is our focus here is sibs and employment, sometimes we can overemphasize employment, right, or we can over glorify employment. And, you know, with with the National Down Syndrome Society, we have on our website, you know, success stories of employment. We have self advocate on businesses. And these are incredible stories to share. And really valuable, I think, parts of the community to highlight, we also understand that not everyone with Down syndrome is going to be successful. And in a in a in a competitive integrated employment setting. Right. So we've also want to make sure that we're talking through what are some other vocational training options, or what are some volunteer opportunities that might still bring fulfillment to that person's life, that doesn't necessarily look like traditional employment. So when I bring that up, as well,
Mike Carmody:I think one of the things that I learned, especially with my brothers, he didn't have this really good volunteer job that he he really liked. And he had an incident where, you know, he had to be let go from that position. And I think, to learn from those experiences, and try something new, or try something again, and a different attitude, and not just give up, like there's something that's out there for everyone to be successful at, whether it's competitive employment, whether it's volunteering, there's something out there, we just having those conversations, I love that with the white coat, like getting really down to what it is we're looking for. And just keep trying. Like, that doesn't work. Keep trying.
Chris Berstler:Again, thank you so much for being here with us today. Any resources that were mentioned during the podcast, I will make sure to put down in the description area so you can check out and check out our COVID-19 Resources section for any safety tips on getting back out there and being employed. Thank you so much.
Ryan Rotundo:Thanks, Chris.
Byran Dai:Thank you guys.
Mike Carmody:Appreciate it.
Chris Berstler:Find the resources, tools and information about the sibling experience on sibling leadership dot board. The sibling Leadership Network is a nonprofit and we rely on support from our audience. Find the donation button on our homepage and contribute to the ever growing sibling movement.