The Sibling Leadership Network
The Sibling Leadership Network
Finances for Sibs
Use Left/Right to seek, Home/End to jump to start or end. Hold shift to jump forward or backward.
This month we discuss financial planning for siblings with Colorado State Treasurer and brother, Dave Young and Founder and President of Oak Wealth Advisors and brother, Mike Walther.
Access the transcript of this episode here.
Resources mentioned in this episode:
Highlights:
- “I entered elected office because my sister was struggling to get essential services." -Dave Young
- “Find the network in your community." -Mike Walther
- “You have to take the first step and listening to those trusted voices is a good way to start." -Dave Young
- “Take a break...celebrate the milestones:" -Mike Walther
Welcome to the sibling Leadership Network podcast. The sibling Leadership Network is a national nonprofit whose mission is to provide siblings of individuals with disabilities the information support and tools to advocate with their brothers and sisters and to promote the issues important to us and our entire families. Hello, and thank you for joining us for another episode of the SLN Podcast. Today we will be talking about siblings and finances. I'm joined today by Colorado State Treasurer and Brother Dave Young, and founder and president of oak Wealth Advisors and brother, Mike Walther. Gentlemen, thank you for joining us today.
Mike Walther:Thank you.
Dave Young:Thank you for having us on. Appreciate it.
Chris Berstler:I'd like to start off by asking you to tell us a little bit about yourself, your background and finances and your work with the sibling community, please.
Dave Young:Well, I'll jump in. I'm Dave Young. I'm the currently the Colorado State Treasurer. And I had been in elect I have been in elected office since January of 2019. So treasurer, as you can imagine, deals a lot with the finances of the state. Most every state has a treasurer, some of them. It's a comptroller, but there's somebody that's managing the money and between the actual money that I manage directly in what's called our treasury pool, which is about 20 billion and my fiduciary responsibility with the public pension board here para. In the state, there's another 60 billion at any given time, I'm responsible for about$80 billion. So that's, that's a pile of money. And I have a great staff that I work with in both areas. Prior to being treasurer, I was a state representative in Colorado, and the last four years of that time in the statehouse. I was on the Joint Budget Committee, which is a small committee out of the 100 legislators who put the state's budget together annually. So prior to being in elected office, I was actually an educator so I spent 35 years as a K 12 teacher. And, and part of that 25 years as a K 12 teacher and 10 years as a as a professor at higher ed. I got into elected office because my sister was struggling to get essential services here in the state of Colorado. I'm not talking about nice to have stuff, I'm talking about residential placement, where she could find a safe place to live. And I discovered along the way that there were a lot of other families that were struggling with the same thing. And I was we were fighting this from the outside. And when the opportunity became open for me to jump in as a state representative, I took the opportunity and really focused on issues around streamlining Medicaid and funding because I had a little bit more power on the inside than I did on the outside. So that's that's how I came to be here.
Mike Walther:I'm like Walter, and unlike Dave, who is doing things to macro level, both the state and federal level to assist folks with special needs through his work as the treasurer. My entire career has been focused on micro level working with individuals and families. I got my MBA at Vanderbilt University and then went on to work for a very large accounting firm doing accounting and tax work as a CPA within that firm. I earned my CFP designation to do more financial planning, as the firm evolved, in addition to to financial planning, we also started doing investment advisory work. So I got my CFA designation as well. So kind of a career learner been in the investment advisory side, we lifted out our practice form the very high net worth investment consulting firm, and 15 years into my career, my wife said, What would you do if you retire? I thought was an odd question in my late 30s, to be faced with retirement questions said no, I'm not saying you're gonna retire, what would you do? What would make you happiest? I thought about it. And I knew a lot about finance, a lot about taxes a lot about planning. And I've got a brother with significant special needs and is on the autism spectrum. And I said, Well, I'd create a business around families like my own to have these unique challenges that aren't being served, where they're being sold products. Nobody's taken a fiduciary approach what they truly need an understanding of all the ancillary issues those families face, in addition to the tax work and the investment work. And so watch, go do that. And so almost 15 years ago, I started oak Wealth Advisors to do exactly that, to provide comprehensive fiduciary planning to families, regardless of their wealth, and taking all the knowledge I gained earlier in my career working with wealthy successful executives and business owners and applying it to every family so they can have the best possible financial planning going forward. And I've had more fun last 15 years and had in the first 15 years by a large margin, helping families like my own.
Chris Berstler:As siblings of individuals with disabilities. Why is having a financial plan so important?
Mike Walther:I think in my mind, it's really hard to feel comfortable as a parent or as a sibling, knowing that your loved one is going to have all those things that we want in life. Without a plan, we typically use the analogy with our clients that we're going to be their GPS system, they have to know where they want to go, they have to want to make the effort to push the accelerator and turn the wheel, where to provide that oversight and help them find the best path with either the most scenic route, the fastest route or wherever they want, in terms of how they get there on that journey. So without them knowing where they want to go, it's awfully hard for us to do our job. But with the planning, there's a greater likelihood of success, and a greater likelihood, we can help them stop and celebrate those successes along the way, and not worry about the airline. But really enjoying the journey, enjoying the process, and really enjoying every moment of life as much as possible and print it take the stress off of the families, putting it on our plates, they can really enjoy their lives and enjoy their relationships as much as possible.
Dave Young:There wasn't when I first got into this, there wasn't a lot of focus on siblings. But you know, I joined a couple of organizations here in Colorado. One of them was parents of adults with disabilities, Colorado Petco, you know, so I was really focused on more groups with parents, and one of the most heartbreaking things that I would hear parents say was, I can't die before my child, because I don't really have a plan. And if I'm not there minute by minute, and there's no plan, Once I pass away, what's going to happen to my loved one, and you know, you can extend that really to siblings as well. And none of us are guaranteed a long life. And I think people really want to be sure that, you know, no one hopes for a catastrophe or disaster. But if something happens, you want to know that your loved one is going to be well cared for and without a financial plan. That's, I think, what leads to that heartburn? You know, I think this is where Mike's work is really, really important. Because you've, you've got to have your financial ducks in a row. And if you do, you can be a better service to your family member.
Chris Berstler:What starting tips do you have for any beginners out there? How about for siblings on a lower income?
Mike Walther:I think one of the keys for all families, and especially those maybe there's more limited resources is to find the network in your community, whoever the specialists are the agencies that are most supportive of your loved ones unique challenges, and build that network. It doesn't have to be national, this is a local thing. First, find out who the Medicaid providers are, find out who the best health care providers are, find out who the support agencies are, and find out who the families are, who kind of have their stuff together, ask them questions where they get that resource, how they put the things in place, who are they working with who's in their network, and that helps you build your own network. Because with that, it's easier to find the answers more quickly and maybe more affordably. And that works for all of us. So we as a firm do that. And I think it works at the individual level as well to make sure that we have the right people around us to help us care for our loved one because it's too much to ask of one set of parents or even a sibling to take on all that care and oversight. It takes a village literally to help raise our loved ones as best possible. And that network is such a key piece of that.
Dave Young:Well, I totally agree with Mike I, that's exactly what I was doing with Paco here in Colorado, was reaching out to see what trusted voices would be able to tell me. And you know, the other thing that is kind of related to this but not connected directly to it is the some of the work I'm doing in the treasury is to help try to stand up a retirement savings program for people here in Colorado that work in moderate to low income jobs that don't have access to a retirement savings plan at work. Turns out in Colorado, that's a million people that's 40% of our private sector workforce. And we did a deep study on this. And what we discovered was that people wanted to save for retirement, they didn't know how to get started. And I think you could extend that conversation to people who want to have a financial plan for their lives. They don't know how to get started. And so, you know, having those trusted voices that you can lean on I think is really important because if somebody has already broken the trail for you on the pathway, and it looks like they're on a good pathway to success, and you know, certainly nothing wrong with with following that but I do think that people get a little overwhelmed by all the terminology and in the financial sector and often they aren't sure if they're are getting sold a bill of goods, they're reluctant to jump in, they're worried they're gonna lose money. It just results in paralysis. And so you're the old Chinese proverb but your journey of 1000 miles begins with one step. But you have to take that first step. And using trusted voices, I think is really a good way to do that.
Chris Berstler:Excellent. Thank you both very much. I know personally, that was something I struggled with all the financial terms, I'm not a financial person. So it freaked me out.
Dave Young:Well, and you don't want to lose money. Right? Exactly. Yeah, you work hard for it. Exactly. But in the process of not wanting to lose money, you're actually falling behind. Inaction creates that problem for you as well. And it's, it's a catch 22 that often people don't realize until there was quite a ways down their life's journeys that they should have started earlier on this work.
Mike Walther:Also say to that the language can be a barrier. Even within the statutes community, there's so many sub segments where there's acronyms, where others might not know what that specific acronym means. And they're, they're afraid to look stupid, by asking the question what that means. We do it all the time, we're still learning, we've actually built a list of acronyms, because it's so hard for us to keep track of all of them. And so I can't imagine for someone who's not in this business, helping families day to day, what it's like when you come across that for the first time. And I think just to be humble in the process, and be willing to ask questions, and continuing being a learner to learn more about what's out there, what's available, and what those things mean. And as you both stated, try to take the acronyms out when you're talking with other friends and other people with the same challenges. Talk about it in the terms that you understand, it'll be easier for them to understand you teach them as well.
Chris Berstler:Yeah, I'm actually really happy you brought up the acronyms thing that was also something I struggled with for quite a while, not only just with fiduciary stuff, but even Medicaid, they have their own language. So
Dave Young:okay, you know, my wife is now a state representative. So I think the two of us are actually pretty good problem solvers. And we could navigate the Medicaid system is nearly impossible. And, you know, I'm not blaming anybody, but it's just the reality that these systems are really challenging for people. And the and, you know, you mix in, and what we've learned was that, you know, for many years, we had the crisis of the day, frankly, and you get so overwhelmed with just trying to figure out, I mentioned, my sister struggling to get residential placement, and she went through 20 residential placements one year. I mean, I don't like to move at all. And she moved 20 times, sometimes, most of the time, not by choice. And so we were so a meshed in, you know, this crisis, daily crisis, that we didn't have time to take a step back and figure out well, what's the big plan here? And that's just residential. She's got health care issues that pop up all the time, and, and everything else. So I, you know, I certainly understand the challenges that families, siblings, parents are going through. Because, you know, people say, Well, why aren't you on a plan? It's like, Well, I'm just trying to, you know, deal with the crisis of the day, I don't have time for a plan. So it's tough.
Mike Walther:Yeah, acronyms things to think about that the planning piece of it. I don't know how many times we've had families come into our office to ask, does your loved one have SSI or SSDI? And they say, Yes. And then we ask, Well, which one? And they look at us with crossed eyes? What do you mean? Which one? Like those are two different major federal programs? Do you have Supplemental Security Income or Social Security Disability Income? Hmm. So I mean, those are basic things that each family's got to navigate with and try to find the best resource, the best fit for their loved one. And the most basic of the acronyms can still be very confusing the special needs community.
Dave Young:Well, and then you throw in all the waivers if your state goes down the waiver pathway just gets more complex all the way?
Mike Walther:Absolutely.
Chris Berstler:What is some continued work to be aware of once you actually do have a financial plan in place?
Dave Young:Well, I think I think you have to keep reviewing it. You can't just assume that that's going to work forever. And I know that's a little disconcerting, because it does take some work to put a plan together. This is why it's helpful to have somebody like Mike to to assist because unfortunately, the the economic landscape and the financial landscape is constantly changing and what worked, you know, five or 10 years ago may or may not work as well as what other programs that may be available now or, or thinking that may have evolved over the last five or 10 years and so on. Um, as much as it's time consuming to do that, you know, once you get it locked in, don't just put it up on a shelf and forget about it that needs to be reviewed. And you know, that's true with all the aspects of somebody's financial planning, you know, we do that with wills as well, you don't just write the will and then, and then forget about it, you've got to come back and take a look at it. We discovered that with my parents, because they had had crafted a will that we weren't even aware that we weren't involved with and then, you know, we asked that they kind of open that back up again, to look at it and realize that some of the language that was in the world was going to create all kinds of problems for my sister, once they passed away. And so it prompted us to go and get an attorney to help us fix that. But had we not kind of pressed the issue a little bit, that would have created some real Medicaid havoc for my sister.
Mike Walther:Yeah, I would say that, you know, we're all blessed to have families like Dave's in government now, because I think back to when my brother was younger, and my parents were told to quote, brother institution and forget about it. Because there were no future opportunities. There was no housing, there were no employment opportunities. So it's pretty bleak. Obviously terrible advice, then and even worse advice now to hear someone say something like that. But the reality is that, especially on the housing front, even as recent as 10, or 20 years ago, there weren't many options that were attracted to families, and so many scrambled to build their own, find their own put resources around their loved one, as opposed to choosing among multiple options in the community, which still today doesn't really exist. But we're getting better because we have leaders like Dave, who are more aware of that, who are pushing for more opportunities, more legislation for support, and more opportunities. And with those things, I think the future is brighter for all families, in terms of opportunities will be out there. But Dave, so right that you've got to stay current, you got to be looking at things with your eyes wide open and staying connected to your network, to find out what opportunities are on the horizon that might be attractive to pursue or to support as a family. And the other thing, I think it's critical is communicating broadly, beyond just your immediate family, there might be others who have great intentions and great love your sibling. And if they do something very generous in terms of leaving something in their estate, and they weren't aware of the planning you've done, it can make things more challenging to get all the benefits restored, and make sure everything's gonna work going forward. Whereas if there's broader communication, whether it's a holiday or a get together, or just some mass letter that sent out explaining what the family has done to all those who might play a role, we think that's really important. We hate it. When the opposite occurs, when there's no communication with everything's cut close to the vest. And then something happens to it's easily avoidable, with a couple of conversations. And I always use the example with our clients that would you rather have that uncle or aunt say notice serving in some capacity in the future after you're dead? And you can't change the people you've named in your estate documents? Or in your plans? Would you rather talk to them now? Discuss what and what the responsibilities are? Discuss what well, you'd like them to play? Have them ask questions to get more comfortable with it, and then tell you yes or no. And if they say no, you can find someone else to put in that role. After you're dead. It's really hard to change things from the grave. So having those communications today is invaluable for the family. And then As Dave said, things are changing. So you got to update that network of people will be responsible and your loved ones life. And if you as a sibling end up playing that primary caregiver role or have that responsibility, it falls to you to make sure that communication continues.
Chris Berstler:What are some must haves for a secure financial future for our sibs?
Mike Walther:Well, I think the one that I mentioned earlier, the base benefits, if you think about it, the government wants to do three things for someone to provide us with food, shelter, and some minimal level of income if you can't provide your own. So we want to make sure that we have the income source, which for many is going to be SSI, the Supplemental Security Income, potentially if that loved one's working, and then unable to work in the future, that income benefit may shift to being SSDI Disability Income benefits available to everyone who is unable to work, but has work history. Both of those benefits come with medical insurance. Yes, that would come along typically with Medicaid SSDI typically comes along with Medicare. And it's possible as a loved one goes down that continuum a life that didn't have with both Medicaid and Medicare and potentially private insurance as well. We want to make sure you have at least some baseline of medical support for whatever comes down the road. And then one that people often forget and they overlook it as being valuable is food. And with the SNAP program that can be 200 dollars plus of food every month. If you do the math on that it's $2,500 a year. Do that time 50 years, all of a sudden, it's a really valuable benefit for that loved one. And people of our generation tend to think of food stamps as something that well, a couple people get that, no, I don't know what the numbers are Dave may have the information, but I think it's close to a quarter of the population or more, is getting some level of benefit to the SNAP program. So making sure we get access to those base level supports, I think is really important as a starting point. And then adding on as Dave mentioned, the Medicaid waivers depending on the state, you're in the other local supports. And then whatever is specific to that individual's needs, and care, building those things around that, but I think is a base, you start there, and then you make sure that you have whatever assets are available to that loved one structured in such a way that doesn't jeopardize those base benefits.
Dave Young:You know, we both we have special needs trusts. And we also have able achieving a better life experience, those kinds of accounts as well. You know, and it kind of dovetails with the previous question, when we're talking about telling your extended family, you know, the plan. And sometimes people aren't aware that they can plug money into accounts like these, and really assist your your brother or sister in great and great ways and not jeopardize their Medicaid status as a result of that. But you really have to kind of understand what each one is for. So you make the good decision. And that's not an easy process for anybody to figure out. But I don't know, Mike, if you want to talk a little bit about both of those types of savings accounts or trust.
Mike Walther:Thanks, Dave. And I agree, it's complicated for families to understand which bucket to put the money in, you've got the money flowing in from Social Security Agreement that's got to go into the person's own account initially. And then where that gets parked becomes another question. So you've got people accounts, which have become a wonderful new planning resource for families going the last five, six years, where they can have assets growing tax deferred in account in the individuals name, but it's not a countable resource. So when the government looks and says, Okay, this individual is applying for receiving the SSI and Medicaid benefits, how many assets they have, and how much money they're making, that ABLE account can have up to $100,000 in it, and not jeopardize their access does Medicaid and SSI benefits. Conversely, the trust a special needs trust can have an infinite amount of money in it, and also not jeopardize those benefits. But the conversation I had with attorneys when ABLE accounts first came out and some of the local attorneys said well, you can manage things just as efficiently in a trust. I think in many cases, they were saying that because they want to protect their own benefits and selling trust work. I think that worked hand in hand, there's certain things that are much better than ABLE account. And other things that are better in a trust account. Certainly larger amounts go into the trust. But a trust, if it has any income at all, must file a federal tax return, the ABLE account reporting in most states is nothing more than documenting what was spent out of the ABLE account, and that you didn't over fund it. And none of the state plans will allow you to put more than the annual contribution limit in there, which this year is 16,000. With inflation, I'm going to guess me north of 17,000 next year. And I'll continue to rise with inflation in the future. But the trust amount can be infinite. And whereas some attorneys would say well, let's just use the trust not bother be able to count, we push back and say no, the ABLE account gives you tax deferred growth has more flexible distribution opportunities for that loved one to have more self determination more control of their own assets. Whereas the trust account is driven by what the trustee wants to distribute for it has more limited opportunities for distribution, and requires a tax return every year. So we want to really minimize expenses, we want to use the ABLE account. And if there aren't going to be significant resources inherited from other sources, parents, other loved ones in the family. There's something called a pooled trust, and every state has at least one if not more pooled trust, where families with more limited resources can donate whatever they do have to that individuals account within the pooled trust, they then get the professional management, professional resources of a trustee, even with a much more limited asset base. So that can work really well in tandem or in lieu of a third party Special Needs Trust Fund about other people. And the ABLE account can be funded by really anyone as long as doesn't exceed the annual contribution limits.
Dave Young:Well, and that I think you had asked earlier, you know, you know what resources are available for people with lower incomes. And certainly the pooled trust is a way to do that because you can put very small amounts in there and then benefit from a professional manager, helping you keep up with the rate of inflation, which we were all struggling with at the moment.
Chris Berstler:Just listening to you guys. My head is spinning. Oh, we were supposed to do that we're supposed to clear things up not making more complicated. Sorry about that. No, no. Really good opportunity for a lot of people to hear about these things like this. This is the first time I've heard about pool trusts. I've got an ABLE account in a special needs trust in place for my sister. And that took me forever just to get set up. Because like I said, I'm not a numbers guy. This is great. This is really good information. Thank you both.
Dave Young:So did you go to an attorney to help you do that work? Or a planner? What did you do?
Chris Berstler:I went to an attorney, I originally was looking at a financial planner. But at the same time, I was going through the process of having my mother emotionally committed to everything, you know, the whole sibling journey, getting the whole family on board. Right? It, it was a two year process. And at the end of the day, having an attorney in place getting her will in place, was more direct, and she wasn't willing to commit to a financial planner. So we kind of just did a mix. And it's still kind of in the work in the background...
Dave Young:Well, I'm glad you could kind of give us a little light on that. Because I think that's, that's really what people are confronted with is, you know, work in a vacuum, and you have a lot of family dynamics that occur often.
Mike Walther:Chris, I'll share with you, I think your scenario is much more common than I'd like to admit. But my own parents who have given me a wonderful life and done amazing things for my brother have really fallen short, a number of areas that I know would benefit my brother. And as a sibling, I think we all struggle with being little bit younger than our parents who had a different set of expectations and different set of opportunities when our loved ones were born than what exists today, as we try to present them with those new ideas, new opportunities, oftentimes, they're set in their ways. They don't want to hear those things, or they hear them differently. And they want to make those changes because as we discussed with Dave sister moving way too many times in a year, and change is hard. And so that's why we see so many of our loved ones living with their parents well into their parents 80s, or when they pass away, which is almost never optimal, with all the change that comes with death and transition. And so it's very difficult, even for me as a professional advisor to get my own parents to do what I know is my brother's best interest, which he doesn't always articulate well to them. Because it requires change. And change is hard. And how can anyone know better than a parent of a loved one with special needs, even if it's a sibling who's been there side by side with their brother or sister for 50 plus years. So I think it's a challenge in all the spaces, siblings trying to get our parents to understand that at some point, we're ready and willing to take over that mantle of responsibility. Getting them to let go of that, and getting them to make the changes necessary for that to occur is a challenge we all face.
Dave Young:Boy, that really happened with us, you know, I mean, and I love my parents, they took that challenge on for an entire lifelong lifetime, you know, but my sister was faced with liver failure, and needed a liver transplant. And so the kind of common dialogue that we were having in the family was you live your life, we've got this, we, you know, this, this, this is our child, we're going to continue to take care of your sister and and all that, but then when they were finally faced with a really significant challenge, they went, Okay, we're over our head, you know, we want you to become her legal cold guardians, and, and take this on and, and it was a real shift in thinking for them to get to that point, then we could actually work on their will, and begin to talk about some of the things that were in there that we're really going to cause some problems and, and it challenges us to go look at our own finances and our own will as well. If we're you know, you can't point the finger at somebody else if you haven't been doing that work yourself. And so, yeah, it's it's a it's a good process, but it's often quite, it's not a smooth process.
Chris Berstler:So what resources might you have to share with listeners to help plan and keep track of their own financial plans,
Mike Walther:I've got one that it's kind of a shameless plug for a for profit company. But it's really true using a lot with our clients. And I'm hoping to get my own family to use it more. It's called vest life. So vest is in the kind of apparel you wear on your chest life. And what they do is they take the letter of intent concept, or a care guide, as we call it in our firm that basically is responsible for documenting all the non legal things that are important in that person's life. Whereas your trust documents can explain what's going to happen with the assets left for their future benefit. There's new medical records that you can go to the medical team to look up and figure out what medications and therapies treatments have been done. successfully, there is the Where does all the other stuff fit? And the answer is in that care guide or letter of intent where you document, you know, desires, goals, family traditions, quirks, behaviors, whatever it might be, that's institutional, and a parents or siblings mind that needs to be there for future caregivers, whether it's the sibling playing one of those roles, or sibling supervising others playing those roles. That needs to be documented what best life does is it allows the family to do in whatever format is best for them. So if it's taking a video, and uploading that, if it's writing out a detailed document and uploading that, but the nice part about it is the sharing and the compartmentalization of the different elements. So if there's medical things, you put that in one bucket, and you can share that with people who might be playing a role as an advisor. On the medical side, if there are things about daily caregiving, you put that in a different silo. And you can share that with certain people. You don't have to give everybody all the information, you give them what they need. And those little segments can be updated and shared electronically, on a Google doc type system where only certain people have the secure access to the information, but they have exactly what they need. And we think that's a wonderful format. So that while we believe everyone in the family should know what's going on, those who provide those caregiving roles have exactly the information they need, they can share feedback, they can upload information to it as well. And to the extent the individual themselves wants to play a role and able to play a role, they can be involved with all those different elements at their own pace. So that format of information sharing is amazing to us, because it allows for the future caregivers to have the access they need without having to go find some document that can be stuck in a drawer somewhere that may never be uncovered.
Chris Berstler:Are there any resources that you can point to that are bipoc specific,
Mike Walther:much of the best work unfortunately, is being done in the nonprofit sector, there should be more of this focus in the for profit sector, and I'm a member of the National Association of Personal Financial Advisors. It's a group of financial advisors who are all fiduciaries, you all must do, it's our clients best interest. And there's a number of subgroups within that, that are really focused not just on bipoc, and Dei, but I'm trying to get good financial education out to the masses, regardless of what your background is, no matter what your experiences, feeding it into bite sized pieces about the jargon that people can understand and benefit from, regardless of where they are in their financial journey. And then understanding that in the area of special needs. It's not color specific race specific religion specific. Anyone can end up with autism, or Down syndrome or cerebral palsy, those things are not specific to a gender or anything else. So the work we're doing in the planning side that Dave's doing, you know, at the state and federal level is really looking at the entire population, it's really not specific to older white males, the privilege classes, etc. It's making sure that the laws and opportunities are available for everyone. And then the push is, I think, to get the education out there so that people know where the resources are, how to benefit from the supports, and utilize what's available, so that it doesn't get to worst case scenario. I think there's lots of things that are coming down the road, I think, greater opportunities for those in the bipoc community to get things that are even more targeted them in the financial services community. The numbers are terrible in terms of the numbers of people coming in to that practice, that have those backgrounds. So if you want to work with someone who's got a similar background to looks like you understand your background and history, it's harder to find those professionals, that's changing, but it's going to take time, much like the other resource they're taking time to come to bear whether it's housing in the special needs community, or whether it's other medical and insurance supports covering things. We're evolving as a society around providing better specialty support that includes supporting all those in the BIPOC community.
Chris Berstler:Finances can seem incredibly complicated, like we had talked about before with all the acronyms and it can be really overwhelming to many sibs. What if I don't have any confidence in navigating and maintaining accounts? What are my other options?
Mike Walther:For this is one that we counsel clients on constantly. In our experience, it seems like in most families where there's siblings with a loved one with special needs, the siblings take one of two polar positions, one of which is I want nothing to do with my sibling once I get to college and graduate and move to the other coast and get away from this because I've been swimming in it my entire life and I'm tired. The other half is the okay mom and dad, what can I do to help? And so in that case, you've got the willing participant and you want to work with them and keep them involved. We think that sibling relationship is is absolutely essential to be maintained. And when two parents who've been kind of sharing duties hand off all the work to one sibling, that's a load. And maybe that sibling doesn't have the financial background doesn't have the healthcare background doesn't have all the things they would necessarily need to be Superman to care for their sibling and do all those things in the future, there is a role that can be put in place on the estate planning side with respect to the trust document called a trust protector. We love having clients consider that in their planning. In a trust, you have the trustee who has the sole responsibility for making all the distributions decisions, filing the tax returns, making sure the investments, the assets that are in that account are managed appropriately. That's a lot to put on someone who maybe doesn't have that kind of a background, but wants to help. Whereas if you have them be a trust protector, they can have the role of simply hiring and firing the trustee who's responsible for doing those things, or the outside investment advisor, if they bifurcate, those roles, have someone doing the administrative part and someone in an investment part. If you did that fellow, it'd be the trust protector, their only job is to make sure that those people are doing their jobs. So become a supervisor, if you will have the estate plan. So therefore, they're got fewer hours to put in, much less day to day responsibility. But they can be that key communication link between the sibling who's the beneficiary of those assets, and the trustee and the investment advisors so that everybody knows what's needed. And that sibling played the role of trust protector is an incredibly valuable position, but doesn't have the day to day responsibility and stress to play in those other roles. And they can also then be that communication link to all the agencies providing care and support on the outside that are outside of the trust responsibilities. So that way, they can keep the sibling loving relationship and not be the one telling their sibling, oh, no, you can't have that. No, we're not doing that. And all of a sudden, the knows they're continuing get thrown into the relationship break up that great bond they had before. And that's so unfortunate when you have a loved one who wants to play the role. And it becomes contentious. So if we can keep that sibling loving bond in place, and have the responsibility given to some others with a supervisory role, that seems to us to be the best case scenario, in most cases.
Dave Young:In my in my family's case, it was just my sister and me. And so, you know, as my parents got to that point in life, where they just felt overwhelmed that the whole burden fell to me. But I married up. So my wife agreed to be co Guardian with me and her family, which is a large family, you know, all want to play roles in this as well. So not sure what that's going to look like with nieces and nephews who are in the Chicago area. But you know that you've given me a little roadmap there, Mike, that's good. I like that.
Chris Berstler:What parting words of encouragement might you have for any sibs currently planning their financial futures?
Mike Walther:Well, for one thing back in days, it's people like him getting into elected office will make the most change. It's so frustrating for me as an advisor, who's not a very good advocate at the political level with our clients to see so many legislators not get it, and then see our little micro groups go to the state and federal level with their, their campaigns try to get attention. Whereas other groups are much better at getting the attention of legislators we go in small little pockets, it's less effective. But once we get legislators in place who have lived experience, they start passing laws start having those discussions that are more favorable to our community, that understand what a huge portion of the population we actually are, even though our voice isn't well heard, we're out there, we have votes, and we care. But we're just not well organized, whereas other groups are. And so having legislators who are living it, like Davis, who now have the ability from their role and perspective to help make change. That's the greatest possible feature we have because it's so hard individual level, to say, I need this, I need that. And it's not there. It's making those things more available. And I guess my one last parting thought would be that this is a journey for every family. And that is I mentioned back at the outset of this podcast. Think of yourself as a sibling with the GPS for your loved one. If you're not too long trip, you're gonna take breaks. So don't feel like you're constantly pressured to do better tomorrow and to make another change. To push your sibling forward. It's okay. Take a break. Take some time away. You went on a trip anyway. also celebrate the milestones stop and see the world's largest ball of twine. You're driving across the country. It's okay. You can celebrate those little milestones along the way. Stop and have the cheeseburger that's off your diet plan. That's okay, too. It's fun. You can look for the joy and laughter in life. It's okay. Pay to do those things. It doesn't have to be stressful all the time, find the happy moments and celebrate those with your sibling. And then love your sibling for who they are. Right? All of us have siblings, they've got their quirks. Heck, we have our own quirks. It's cool to celebrate those things and love them for who they are. And don't wait to love them until they have achieved X, Y, and Z. Love them for where they are today. Help them get where they want to be. And remember, it's where they want to be not where you want them to be. That's most important. If you keep those things in mind, I think you'll have a great relationship with your sibling for a long time. And everyone's been better off
Dave Young:great words of wisdom, I really appreciate that, you know, if I would tend to default a little bit of the politics into the legislation, on closing remarks, just because that's how I spend a lot of my time. So I think that's a narrow response, maybe are closing remarks, Crystal, what you're asking for, for maybe a more global response. But I do think that there are some real legislative changes that we need to make that are going to make lives easier if we make them. And I do understand that it's hard to build that political momentum. You have groups that are like, like this network that are trying to bring advocates together. And sometimes it gets a little, a little tough, you know, you don't feel like you're being heard. Let me just tell you, from my experience, as a legislator, that the voices from the community are the ones that are most valued. And let me just tell you a quick story. I had a bill, we were trying to run to allow people who use wheelchairs to get, you know, the right kind of wheelchair, not some standard wheelchair. And, you know, I had this bill and I was in front of committee and I looked up at all the committee members and they were on their phones, they were looking at their watches, they were yawning, on and on and on. And we had an advocate for the community come in and provide her testimony. And literally after she spoke, I looked up and and people were sobbing. They were crying. And when legislators I've never seen this, the tears were spurting out. It was burning out, it was so emotional. And this is the story that we have to tell that is so powerful that people will listen to. And really this is what legislators want to hear. They want to hear what is really going to make a difference in people's lives. I can't tell you every legislators that way. But the ones that by far and away that I serve with even when you think there's all kinds of political disruption and and disarray. At the end of the day, they're there because they want to do something right for the community. And I think they recognize when when somebody has really given them the straight scoop of what has to happen. So don't fall back. Keep pushing forward. Keep telling your personal story. It'll pay off.
Chris Berstler:Excellent points. Excellent advice. Thank you so much. I really appreciate your time. Thank you so much for joining me today. This has been an enlightening conversation. So thank you very much.
Mike Walther:Thanks for having us.
Dave Young:You bet.
Chris Berstler:Find resources, tools and information about the sibling experience on sibling leadership dot board. The sibling Leadership Network is a nonprofit and we rely on support from our audience. Find the donation button on our homepage and contribute to the ever growing sibling movement.