This month, we speak with the Director of Advocacy for the Autistic Self Advocacy Network, Zoe Gross, all about plain language; what it is, why it's important and where and how to ask for it.
This month, we speak with the Director of Advocacy for the Autistic Self Advocacy Network, Zoe Gross, all about plain language; what it is, why it's important and where and how to ask for it.
Welcome to the sibling Leadership Network podcast. The sibling Leadership Network is a national nonprofit whose mission is to provide siblings of individuals with disabilities, the information, support and tools to advocate with their brothers and sisters, and to promote the issue is important to us and our entire families. Hello, and thank you for joining us for another episode of the sibling Leadership Network Podcast. Today we're talking about plain language, what it is, how to ask for it, and when to use it. I'm joined today by the Director of Advocacy for the Autistic Self Advocacy Network. Zoe Gross. Zoe, thank you so much for joining us today.
Zoe Gross:
Thank you for having me.
Chris Berstler:
Please tell us about yourself and what led you to your current work?
Zoe Gross:
Sure. So I'm an autistic self advocate working in the field of disability policy. I've been doing disability policy work since I moved to DC and 2014. And I've been with ASAN for the last six years, although I did some volunteer work with it as at back in 2011. So I've been with them for a pretty long time, if you count that. I'm just passionate about making policy accessible, getting more people are involved in policy, advocacy, and civic engagement, and really empowering people with disabilities to make policy changes.
Chris Berstler:
So what is plain language? And why is it so important?
Zoe Gross:
Sure. So plain language is a way of writing that is more accessible to people with intellectual and developmental disabilities. And not only to people with IDD, but also to people with other language processing disabilities or English language learners as well. Plain language uses a lower reading grade level, it uses simpler sentence structure, shorter sentences, shorter words, more common words rather than less frequently used words. Those are some of the features of plain language. ASN offers a training that will go through eight features of plant language. And I'm not going to get into detail of breakdown each one right here. But you can access that training online. And we offer it every year as well.
Chris Berstler:
So why is plain language so important?
Zoe Gross:
Sure. So plain language is a way to make information accessible. And access to information is really critical, to give people the power to take policy into their own hands or even to understand things about their lives. So for example, we have a resource on Medicaid and how Medicaid works and what Medicaid waivers are. And that was really useful when Medicaid funding was being debated. So that people who are Medicaid beneficiaries can understand how is this program that I depend on funded? And what are the arguments people are having about how it should be funded? And how can I get involved in that policy discussion and help influence it. So that this program that I depend on can continue just to empower someone to understand why the things in their life are the way they are? And then what they can do about it? Those are really powerful, important things.
Chris Berstler:
Do you have an example of plain language?
Zoe Gross:
Sure. So if you go to a ASAN website, you can see all of our plain language resources and our resource library. And one of the first pages that will come up is our plain language resources on COVID-19. And if you go and look at those, you'll see many different topics about COVID explained in plain language, our most recent one breaks down what long COVID is. And we have more coming out in the coming months. And those we just felt were really important because especially in the early days of COVID, when there was so much that we didn't know and it was so critical to disseminate the information that we did have a lot of information was coming out in inaccessible ways. And we felt it was really important to translate it into something that more people could understand. So that's why we have those,
Chris Berstler:
when can or should we use plain language?
Zoe Gross:
I think we can use plain language basically all the time. And we should. That's not to say we should never write in formal or academic language. But I feel that a plain language version of a formal language resource is always welcome and appropriate. I think it's especially critical to write in plain language when you're writing for a general audience. And especially if you're writing on topics that affect people with disabilities, because you want people to be able to access information that's about them. You know, in the self advocacy movement, we say nothing about us without us. And for too long people with disabilities have been excluded from conversations about disability policy, disability research, by inaccessible language that's used in those fields. And we want to make sure that people with disabilities can be included in those conversations and start to influence those areas. And in order to do that plain language is a really critical aspect of that.
Chris Berstler:
Who can ask for plain language?
Zoe Gross:
I think anyone can ask for a plain language. If you know that something is going to be used by people with disabilities and you're spotting access barriers. A great thing to do would be to raise it with the people who wrote something or offering a resource and say, Can we put this in plain language? Or is there a more plain language version of this we could offer? It's certainly something that people with disabilities can ask for as a reasonable accommodation. But it's also something that you can ask for, as an ally to people with disabilities.
Chris Berstler:
Where can we ask for plain language,
Zoe Gross:
if you see, for example, a public health agency or a university or even your workplace offering a written resource, and it is confusing, and you find it written in very dense language are using a lot of uncommon words, those might be some examples of access barriers and a written document. And that's a great place to ask for plain language. I find if you're looking at a document that like one person working alone has written, that person may not have the resources to do the translation, you can still ask them is there any way you can put this in plain language, but where I find you get the most leverage is with like an organization that has put out a resource and organization is likely to have more resources that they can devote to translation?
Chris Berstler:
Thank you. So that leads me to my next question, how do we ask for plain language.
Zoe Gross:
So there are several ways you can do this. You can say, I'm asking for this as a reasonable accommodation for my disability. The ADEA means that we are entitled to reasonable accommodations in many circumstances. Plain Language isn't something that is thought of as like stock standard under the ADEA in the same way that some architectural features are. But it is certainly an example of an ADA reasonable accommodation that you can request. You can also just bring data, bring information and say, did you know that for something to be accessible to the general public, not even bringing in people with disabilities, but just the general public? It should be at a six to eighth grade reading level or lower? If we want to reach the most people possible? We should put this in plainer language.
Chris Berstler:
Does ASAN have any resources available to help creators out there use plain language?
Zoe Gross:
Yes, we do. So we have a written resource that's devoted to writing an easy read. Easy read is a different accessible format. That is uses a little bit simpler language than plain language. And it's also picture assisted, we're not going to get into easy read much in this conversation. But we do have that resource available. It's called one idea per line. And then, every year we do a series of webinars with Sarthak, which is the self advocacy resources and technical assistance center, where we break down the basics of plain language and easy read in these webinars. In our plain language webinar, we really thoroughly cover the eight features of plain language and give examples of each and give examples of people getting it wrong and how to get it right. They're interactive webinars. So people can come and say, Oh, what about this, or I think in that example, the person has done this wrong, and here's how I would fix it, and just start to flex those plain language muscles. We have finished our row in our series for the year, but you can see recordings at self advocacy info.org. And that's where you can access our webinars. Currently, we also offer custom trainings for groups or agencies. If folks want to reach out to us to access our trainings,
Chris Berstler:
some critics of plain language say that plain language possibly lessens the value of written content, and has the potential to insult professional readers. How would you answer this criticism? I think
Zoe Gross:
those are two very interesting criticisms. I would say that the point of written information is to communicate something to someone. And the more people who can understand what you're saying, the better you're doing at conveying information. And if there are access barriers with your writing, and that includes writing in formal language that not everyone can understand. You could be doing a better job conveying information. Instead, you're putting up roadblocks in the way of information. So in terms of the value of language, I would say language is at its most valuable when we are communicating information between each other and the best way possible. And the best way possible is the most inclusive way possible. In terms of the idea that plain language is insulting to people who can read at an academic level. I don't really understand that idea. I feel like it's like saying this door has a wheelchair ramp up to it but no stairs. That's insulting to me because I could walk up the stairs but there are no stairs there. So now I have to walk up the wheelchair ramp that people who use wheelchairs also use that insults me. I don't I don't understand that so much. I feel like you if you are able to use plain language, then it's not a hardship to do so. I understand that it is different and it takes getting used to. Plain language writing for example, is often more blunt than writing in formal language and it can be jarring to people at first. But the difference is of plain language. It doesn't make it bad. It just makes it not the way that you're used to seeing information presented. Something that you don't expect until you start working with plain language is the way that formal language is set up to hide things. Something that's written in passive voice, for example, is set up to hide who is doing something. So if you say Mistakes were made, it hides the fact that you are the person that made the mistakes. That's just an example of ways that more inaccessible writing structures can be used to take out information. So writing and language, we often have to say things like this government agency caused this problem or to not provide this access feature is breaking the law, or similar things like at end things, when people read that they say that's very harsh. Or Or like, it's very blunt, it's it's not how I would usually see that information presented. But really, the way it would normally be presented is implying that same thing, but not stating it. And implying stuff doesn't work so well for an audience of people with intellectual developmental disabilities. Because what you want to get get things out of the subtext of what you're saying and into the plain text and make it more accessible. So that's one reason why plain language can be a little more blunt. I have heard from people who say that they find information written academically more accessible to them personally than information in plain language. I don't think that's like a problem or a failing of that person. But I do think both should be available to people. And I don't think plain language in itself is like an insult to readers.
Chris Berstler:
What tips can you give any creators listening who want to start using plain language in their content,
Zoe Gross:
there are several tips I would give one is to start with as hands webinars on plain language, which we've spoken earlier about you can find at self advocacy info.org. And learn the eight features of plain language, which include using shorter sentences and paragraphs using more common words speaking in a straightforward way, so avoiding things like sarcasm, or unexplained metaphors, avoiding passive voice and other similar principles. I would also recommend learning by example. So finding some plain language resources, reading them, noting how they do things a little bit differently than resources written in more formal language. And then just practice, it's okay to dive right in and like, go find something on the internet that's written formal language, even like a news article, look through it and say, Where could this be more plain language? Where are the words being used that are uncommon, and people are less likely to know? Where are the phrases that can be simplified? Where's the convoluted sentence structure, where's the passive voice where all the things that I could change in this and you know, get started that way, it's really fine to just experiment and jump right in. And it's an iterative process, you'll get better at it as you go, I would just give the tip that writing in plain language, your stuff can get longer. This confuses people, they often expect stuff to get shorter. But part of writing in plain language can be adding in information that wasn't in your original document. But that is useful background information for people who are approaching a topic for the first time. So that can add a lot of length,
Chris Berstler:
in your opinion, is plain language a civil right.
Zoe Gross:
I think so plain language is an access issue. And I feel that people with disabilities have the civil right to access to information. And that includes plain language for many people.
Chris Berstler:
What are some current issues within the plain language movement,
Zoe Gross:
I feel like as plain language becomes more recognized and and more people are interested in it, especially in the disability field, it's really important to emphasize that self advocates should be involved in the creation of plain language resources. At ASEAN, we have worked closely with many self advocates with intellectual disabilities, to help us focus group and edit are plain language and easy read content. And we've learned a lot about how to write in those styles from our editors. We've learned a lot about how information can be presented in a way that's most accessible to them, how to present how to structure the definition of the term they don't know, for example, or where to put definitions of vocabulary terms in a document. All of these are examples of things that we have changed our approach to because of the guidance of our editors. So I feel like that review step is really important. There are also more and more people with disabilities who are learning to be playing language writers ourselves. And part of what ASN does through StarTAC is help train people with disabilities in these skills. So if you're looking for someone to do plain language translation for you, maybe reach out to a local self advocacy group and see if that's the service they offer. Self Advocates Becoming Empowered also have some plan language resources, I believe available on their website. Yeah, there's lots of places to find resources on this. If you're a journalist or reporter I recommend the plain truth project at plain truth project.org which is specifically a collaboration between reporters and Pa Well, disability is focusing on encouraging plain language reporting. And and that's kind of like a new field that people have started to explore, especially when their reporting focuses on people with disabilities, and is just an exciting development that I'm happy to see
Chris Berstler:
how can listeners get involved and help to make sure plain language is available in their own communities?
Zoe Gross:
Yeah, so I would just say using the steps we've already discussed, learn, try plain language for yourself. Start noticing where academic language is used and where things could be translated. Start requesting plain language and places where you think it should be made available either because of resources for the general public or specifically for people with disabilities, become awake to the wonderful world that is plain language and spot all the places that it can be brought into your life.
Chris Berstler:
All right, thank you so much. So it's been a pleasure speaking with you and learning so much about plain language. any resources that Zoey has mentioned during the podcast can be found in this description below. Zoe, thank you so much for being with us today.
Zoe Gross:
Thank you for having me. It was great talking about plain language.
Chris Berstler:
Find resources, tools and information about the sibling experience on sibling leadership.org. The sibling Leadership Network is a nonprofit, and we rely on support from our audience. Find the donation button on our homepage and contribute to the ever growing sibling movement.
some critics of plain language say that plain language possibly lessens the value of written content, and has the potential to insult professional readers. How would you answer this criticism?