00;00;28;29 - 00;00;33;13
The Mapuche people have been mobilizing
to reclaim their ancestral lands
00;00;33;13 - 00;00;34;05
in Chile,
00;00;34;12 - 00;00;39;03
which have been taken over by vast
industrial eucalyptus and pine plantations
00;00;39;12 - 00;00;43;10
established during the Pinochet
dictatorship in the 1970s.
00;00;43;20 - 00;00;45;05
This land recovery
00;00;45;05 - 00;00;48;29
is part of a broader effort by the Mapuche
to reclaim their culture,
00;00;49;08 - 00;00;54;01
spirituality, language and food
sovereignty for their communities.
00;00;54;11 - 00;00;59;13
However, a new usurpation law has made
these land recovery efforts illegal,
00;00;59;23 - 00;01;04;01
putting those who attempt to claim land
or grow crops at risk of imprisonment.
00;01;04;27 - 00;01;07;05
On this episode of Breaking Green.
00;01;07;05 - 00;01;11;29
We will be speaking with Anne Petermann,
who led a delegation to Chile in October
00;01;11;29 - 00;01;17;13
of 2024 to interview Mapuche communities,
activists and political prisoners.
00;01;17;21 - 00;01;21;26
Anne Petermann is executive director
of Global Justice Ecology Project.
00;01;22;15 - 00;01;24;08
She has been involved in movements
00;01;24;08 - 00;01;28;03
for forest protection
and indigenous rights since 1991,
00;01;28;11 - 00;01;33;00
and the international and national climate
justice movements since 2004.
00;01;33;22 - 00;01;36;11
She participated in the founding
of the Durban Group
00;01;36;11 - 00;01;39;21
for Climate Justice in 2004, in Durban,
South Africa
00;01;39;29 - 00;01;44;20
and Climate Justice
Now in 2007 at the Bali, Indonesia U.N.
00;01;44;20 - 00;01;46;07
climate conference.
00;01;46;07 - 00;01;50;15
Petermann was adopted as an honorary
member of the Saint Francis-Sokoki
00;01;50;15 - 00;01;54;25
band of the Abenaki, in 1992 for her work
in support of their struggle
00;01;54;25 - 00;01;56;15
for state recognition.
00;01;56;15 - 00;02;01;01
In 2000, she received the Wild Nature
Award for activist of the year.
00;02;01;23 - 00;02;03;03
Anne Petermann,
00;02;03;03 - 00;02;05;09
welcome to Breaking Green.
00;02;05;09 - 00;02;07;14
Thank you so much for having me Steve.
00;02;07;14 - 00;02;12;16
Anne Peterman, October 2024,
you led a delegation to Chile.
00;02;12;24 - 00;02;15;02
Please tell us a little bit about that.
00;02;15;02 - 00;02;20;13
This October, was actually 20 years since
the first time we went down to Chile.
00;02;20;13 - 00;02;23;07
And this was our seventh time
going to Chile.
00;02;23;07 - 00;02;27;19
And we've been, you know,
very interested and involved in the Mapuche
00;02;27;29 - 00;02;33;09
People's struggle against industrial pine
plantations and eucalyptus plantations,
00;02;33;21 - 00;02;37;06
which is part of our overall program
of supporting Indigenous Peoples,
00;02;37;12 - 00;02;40;20
and their rights to have their own lands
and not have
00;02;40;20 - 00;02;43;20
their lands
be taken over for timber plantations.
00;02;43;20 - 00;02;46;29
And this particular delegation
was a little bit different
00;02;46;29 - 00;02;49;23
than other ones,
because we were specifically looking
00;02;49;23 - 00;02;54;13
at the political repression
by the government, by the military, etc.,
00;02;54;13 - 00;02;59;05
against the Mapuche people
for trying to reclaim their lands.
00;02;59;18 - 00;03;03;13
So what do tree plantations
00;03;03;26 - 00;03;07;21
have to do with,
Mapuche Indigenous struggle?
00;03;09;07 - 00;03;10;04
Well, the
00;03;10;04 - 00;03;13;03
people have been in Chile,
you know, for thousands of years.
00;03;13;03 - 00;03;19;08
And then the Chilean government came along
and there was a, an agreement
00;03;19;08 - 00;03;20;28
with the Mapuche people
00;03;21;07 - 00;03;25;00
that they could have all of the territory
south of the Bio Bio River,
00;03;25;00 - 00;03;27;00
which is a major river in Chile.
00;03;27;00 - 00;03;29;01
And, you know, that lasted well,
00;03;29;01 - 00;03;30;12
it didn't last all that long.
00;03;30;12 - 00;03;34;00
In the 1860s,
the government of Chile
00;03;34;00 - 00;03;37;02
decided
they wanted that territory, the Mapuche territory.
00;03;37;16 - 00;03;40;15
So they took it through what they called,
ironically,
00;03;40;15 - 00;03;45;02
the pacification of the Aruacania
and the the pacification program
00;03;45;02 - 00;03;48;29
was actually a series of massacres
and forced displacements,
00;03;48;29 - 00;03;53;18
where people were put on
to what they call reductions.
00;03;53;18 - 00;03;56;18
But in the United States
would be thought of as reservations.
00;03;56;25 - 00;03;59;26
So they lost a lot of their territory
during that time.
00;03;59;26 - 00;04;02;01
Although much of the land
00;04;02;01 - 00;04;05;27
was still ecologically intact,
there were still native forests.
00;04;05;27 - 00;04;09;18
It was still largely, you know,
00;04;09;18 - 00;04;12;18
the original condition of the land
was okay.
00;04;12;26 - 00;04;16;06
But then, you know, Pinochet's
00;04;16;15 - 00;04;19;23
dictatorship came along in 1973
00;04;20;08 - 00;04;24;16
and he subsidized the destruction
00;04;24;16 - 00;04;27;16
of the territory for pine plantations.
00;04;27;24 - 00;04;30;19
So the government created this law
in law 701.
00;04;30;19 - 00;04;32;05
This decree that
00;04;33;10 - 00;04;36;23
allowed the timber companies to go in
and just take over
00;04;36;23 - 00;04;42;08
whatever land they wanted to,
and completely subsidized the planting of,
00;04;42;16 - 00;04;46;07
pine trees throughout Mapuche territory.
00;04;46;08 - 00;04;47;00
So they lost.
00;04;47;00 - 00;04;51;06
At the end of that period, they lost about
95% of their traditional land.
00;04;51;16 - 00;04;53;03
And they didn't just lose it
00;04;53;03 - 00;04;56;17
to other landowners that, you know,
continued to have it as forest.
00;04;56;17 - 00;05;00;25
They lost it to these plantations,
that of,
00;05;00;25 - 00;05;05;28
you know, ecologically decimating,
they destroy the biodiversity,
00;05;05;28 - 00;05;09;07
they deplete the water,
you know, they destroy the soil.
00;05;09;07 - 00;05;12;05
It's it's been a real struggle for them.
00;05;12;05 - 00;05;15;09
And as a result of that,
because their land
00;05;15;09 - 00;05;18;09
was lost in the 1970s,
00;05;18;13 - 00;05;21;14
to these industrial tree
plantations in the 1990s,
00;05;21;24 - 00;05;25;07
the people who were children
when that happened, by the 1990s,
00;05;25;07 - 00;05;26;23
they had watched their territory,
00;05;26;23 - 00;05;29;29
their communities, land,
be taken away for these plantations,
00;05;30;09 - 00;05;34;10
watched the plantations mature
and they then became radicalized
00;05;34;12 - 00;05;39;26
and decided to reclaim,
and restore the Mapuche people's
00;05;40;05 - 00;05;43;13
culture, spirituality
and to take back that land.
00;05;43;24 - 00;05;46;18
Right. So there's there's a lot of,
00;05;47;24 - 00;05;48;25
tree plantations,
00;05;48;25 - 00;05;51;25
monoculture tree plantations in Chile.
00;05;51;26 - 00;05;54;24
So pine and eucalyptus, which,
00;05;54;24 - 00;05;59;00
we'll talk about fires a bit later,
but there's a loss of biodiversity.
00;05;59;00 - 00;06;01;04
There's there's fire threats.
00;06;01;04 - 00;06;04;19
The Mapuche, are,
00;06;04;23 - 00;06;11;01
struggling to take back land and to,
bring back Indigenous forests.
00;06;11;05 - 00;06;14;05
Am I correct about that?
00;06;14;07 - 00;06;15;21
Right. Very much. Yeah.
00;06;15;21 - 00;06;18;26
There's been a major campaign
really since the 1990s
00;06;18;26 - 00;06;21;26
for people to get that land back.
00;06;22;03 - 00;06;26;07
And not just because they want land for,
00;06;26;18 - 00;06;29;10
you know, building houses and,
00;06;29;10 - 00;06;32;23
the things that people in the
United States think about having land for,
00;06;32;29 - 00;06;36;18
but really to have the ability
to sustain themselves,
00;06;36;18 - 00;06;40;02
to be able to live lives
that aren't in poverty.
00;06;40;02 - 00;06;44;11
One of the, side
effects of all of these pine plantations
00;06;44;23 - 00;06;48;20
and the loss of the land was that
people could no longer feed themselves.
00;06;48;20 - 00;06;51;28
They could no longer grow the crops
that they had traditionally grown
00;06;51;28 - 00;06;53;23
to feed their families
and their communities.
00;06;53;23 - 00;06;55;29
They couldn't raise livestock.
00;06;55;29 - 00;06;59;11
And as a result, the,
you know, many of the Mapuche communities
00;06;59;11 - 00;07;00;28
live below the poverty line
00;07;00;28 - 00;07;01;20
so
00;07;01;24 - 00;07;06;16
it's been very important for people to get
the land back just so they can live.
00;07;06;23 - 00;07;10;16
And otherwise
it's it's just been a disaster.
00;07;10;16 - 00;07;12;29
And the pine plantation
takeover of Mapuche
00;07;12;29 - 00;07;16;04
territory has been a real disaster
for the Mapuche people.
00;07;16;10 - 00;07;20;21
So Anne, the word Walmapu,
and the concept,
00;07;20;27 - 00;07;25;09
what is that and what does it mean to
the Mapuche as far as you understand it?
00;07;25;16 - 00;07;30;09
Well, Wallmapu is the the traditional
ancestral territory of the of the Mapuche.
00;07;30;24 - 00;07;35;12
It encompasses not just their territory
in Chile, but also territory in Argentina.
00;07;35;12 - 00;07;38;08
The Mapuche people were in both countries.
00;07;38;08 - 00;07;43;18
So it's it's the entire,
it's the entirety of their ancestral land.
00;07;44;23 - 00;07;46;15
So Anne, we talk about the Mapuche,
00;07;46;15 - 00;07;51;01
taking back land or attempting
to take back land, their territory.
00;07;51;12 - 00;07;53;01
What does that look like?
00;07;53;01 - 00;07;55;18
Are there legal aspects,
what type of struggle
00;07;55;18 - 00;07;57;03
are we talking about?
00;07;57;03 - 00;08;00;05
There is a there's a, government,
00;08;00;19 - 00;08;04;06
entity called Conati
that was established
00;08;04;06 - 00;08;07;06
specifically
to deal with Mapuche land claims
00;08;07;06 - 00;08;10;27
and to try to facilitate
or push people getting their land back.
00;08;11;03 - 00;08;14;19
And it often involves
the government buying land
00;08;14;19 - 00;08;17;23
and getting it to Mapuche communities
to have a place to be.
00;08;18;17 - 00;08;22;19
And they've, you know, done some of that,
but it's largely been stalled.
00;08;22;19 - 00;08;25;18
There's not been very much activity
00;08;25;27 - 00;08;28;27
through Conati
to give people back their land.
00;08;29;03 - 00;08;32;03
And so there's been a lot of frustration,
you know, communities waiting
00;08;32;03 - 00;08;35;03
and waiting and waiting
and nothing's happening.
00;08;35;03 - 00;08;37;16
And so there's been, you know,
00;08;37;16 - 00;08;41;13
other activities to take back land,
like literally going into pine plantations
00;08;42;16 - 00;08;43;20
and just taking the
00;08;43;20 - 00;08;47;12
land and saying,
this land has been ours for generations.
00;08;47;17 - 00;08;51;17
We are taking the land back
and taking down the pine plantations
00;08;51;17 - 00;08;54;17
and restoring the land, either to,
00;08;54;21 - 00;08;58;21
some kind of a forest or more,
more often to agricultural land,
00;08;58;21 - 00;09;02;09
so that people have the ability
to grow their crops and raise livestock.
00;09;02;11 - 00;09;07;11
A s the Mapuche, take back
some of their ancestral territory,
00;09;07;21 - 00;09;10;29
they organize themselves
into almost familial,
00;09;11;01 - 00;09;14;03
groups, with a lonko.
00;09;14;03 - 00;09;16;02
Could you talk a little bit
about that?
00;09;16;02 - 00;09;19;02
They're very much, oriented around family.
00;09;19;11 - 00;09;22;20
And the lonko is the spiritual leader.
00;09;22;25 - 00;09;28;26
So, you know, in some U.S., research,
they're roughly called a chief.
00;09;28;26 - 00;09;30;12
But it's not really like a chief.
00;09;30;12 - 00;09;32;01
It's a spiritual leader.
00;09;32;01 - 00;09;37;18
It's somebody that the community looks
to help make decisions, for the community.
00;09;37;18 - 00;09;39;04
But they're not. They're not.
00;09;39;04 - 00;09;41;04
It's not like a real hierarchical thing.
00;09;41;04 - 00;09;43;00
It's more of a spiritual thing.
00;09;43;00 - 00;09;45;16
And the Mapuche
00;09;45;16 - 00;09;48;16
loncos, have a lot of responsibility
00;09;48;16 - 00;09;51;08
for the communities
to, you know, look after them.
00;09;51;08 - 00;09;51;29
Their wellbeing.
00;09;53;06 - 00;09;56;08
But everybody in the community,
it really feels when we went to
00;09;56;08 - 00;09;59;24
visit people, it really feels like
everybody has a role to play.
00;10;00;29 - 00;10;05;16
You know, and a lot of the communities
were talking about how the young people,
00;10;05;16 - 00;10;09;01
the young men especially, but not just
the young men, the young women as well,
00;10;09;13 - 00;10;13;25
were being targeted in these communities
that had taken back land that we visited,
00;10;14;00 - 00;10;19;07
had been targeted for, arrest,
you know, without really any cause.
00;10;19;14 - 00;10;21;14
Some action would happen somewhere.
00;10;21;14 - 00;10;24;11
And these young people would be arrested
00;10;24;11 - 00;10;28;14
without real evidence or justification
and put in prison.
00;10;28;25 - 00;10;32;09
And what we learned
when we visited people in prison
00;10;32;19 - 00;10;36;13
and talk to their families
is that it's called preventative prison,
00;10;36;13 - 00;10;38;16
which is a pretty, kind of a
00;10;39;16 - 00;10;41;25
grotesque term, if you ask me.
00;10;41;25 - 00;10;44;17
But preventative
prison means that you can be in jail,
00;10;44;17 - 00;10;48;17
put in prison in Chile,
and be there for two years
00;10;48;27 - 00;10;52;04
without being formally charged
or having a trial.
00;10;52;18 - 00;10;55;20
So, you know, people are just
being snatched off the streets
00;10;55;29 - 00;10;59;01
quite literally,
put in jail and kept there
00;10;59;11 - 00;11;02;13
as a way to cut off the movement,
00;11;02;14 - 00;11;05;01
to reclaim land, to either
frighten other people away from it
00;11;05;01 - 00;11;08;01
or literally just take away
the activists who are involved.
00;11;08;11 - 00;11;11;10
So you visited some prisons
when you were in Chile?
00;11;11;14 - 00;11;12;04
We did. Yes.
00;11;12;04 - 00;11;13;01
We started out,
00;11;13;01 - 00;11;17;19
the first place we went to actually on
our delegation was the prison into Temuco.
00;11;17;19 - 00;11;21;27
Temuco is the largest city
in Mapuche territory, in Chile.
00;11;21;27 - 00;11;23;17
And we started out there. We met with,
00;11;24;24 - 00;11;28;05
oh, probably about 12 political prisoners.
00;11;28;05 - 00;11;31;06
And a few of their family members
were let in with us.
00;11;31;09 - 00;11;34;17
So, we had a very, you know, a long and,
00;11;35;05 - 00;11;38;17
rich conversation with them
about the conditions of the prison,
00;11;38;17 - 00;11;42;21
but also the condition of why they were
there, you know, and many of them
00;11;43;08 - 00;11;48;02
repeated what I just said earlier
about having been grabbed off the street
00;11;48;02 - 00;11;51;16
or, you know, arrested for without cause
and being held there,
00;11;51;16 - 00;11;56;00
not even being allowed
to be in person in the courtroom.
00;11;56;13 - 00;12;01;00
So being on video, doing these video
trials, these virtual trials
00;12;01;00 - 00;12;04;15
where they don't even get to sit
next to their lawyer when they're being,
00;12;05;03 - 00;12;07;16
you know, charged in court
or when they're going through
00;12;07;16 - 00;12;09;08
the different court proceedings.
00;12;09;08 - 00;12;11;27
So and they challenged
that they tried to challenge it
00;12;11;27 - 00;12;14;29
under the Constitution
because it's unconstitutional in Chile.
00;12;15;21 - 00;12;19;22
But it was defended by the government
saying that it was for safety reasons.
00;12;19;26 - 00;12;22;26
So it was something that was instituted
under Covid,
00;12;23;00 - 00;12;25;12
a lot of these virtual court hearings.
00;12;25;12 - 00;12;27;28
And then it just after Covid,
they just kept it for
00;12;27;28 - 00;12;29;12
the Mapuche activists.
00;12;29;12 - 00;12;33;07
in Chile, there's actually regions where
there's different rules of engagement
00;12;33;07 - 00;12;36;24
for the Mapuche than, in other places
00;12;36;24 - 00;12;39;24
are for other, segments of society.
00;12;39;29 - 00;12;44;20
I think I've heard them referred to
as red zones and, loose trigger laws.
00;12;44;20 - 00;12;45;27
Could you tell us about that?
00;12;47;20 - 00;12;51;11
In the, the territories in Chile,
00;12;52;02 - 00;12;56;08
in the Bio Bio region in particular,
tin the Araucanía region, these are regions
00;12;56;08 - 00;13;00;28
that where there's there has been
a lot of Mapuche activism to reclaim land.
00;13;01;11 - 00;13;04;09
And as a result of that, especially since
00;13;04;09 - 00;13;07;09
the people's uprising in 2019,
00;13;07;15 - 00;13;10;26
there's there's been a militarization
of those territories.
00;13;10;26 - 00;13;13;03
So the government has said, you know what?
00;13;13;03 - 00;13;16;18
We've had enough of this Mapuche land
reclaiming, probably
00;13;16;19 - 00;13;19;10
because the timber industry
is putting a lot of pressure
00;13;19;10 - 00;13;22;09
on the government, saying, you know,
we don't really like this in our, in our,
00;13;22;17 - 00;13;25;17
in our what they call their territory.
00;13;26;04 - 00;13;28;09
So, yeah,
there's been a lot of militarization.
00;13;28;09 - 00;13;31;09
The Bio Bio region in particular has,
00;13;32;04 - 00;13;35;08
has had a lot of violence
from the police toward people.
00;13;35;08 - 00;13;38;13
There's been a huge military presence,
people who are activists
00;13;38;13 - 00;13;41;20
there talk about
being surveilled by drones
00;13;41;20 - 00;13;45;22
that if they drive down the streets,
the police pull them over for no reason.
00;13;46;21 - 00;13;47;19
That they, you
00;13;47;19 - 00;13;50;19
know, they can't actually go out of their
00;13;50;23 - 00;13;53;18
communities or they'll there's they fear
they'll be arrested.
00;13;53;18 - 00;13;55;13
So, yeah, there's a lot of militarization.
00;13;55;13 - 00;14;00;12
And of course, the government spends it
as, they need the militarization
00;14;00;12 - 00;14;03;12
because the Mapuche are such terrible,
violent people.
00;14;03;18 - 00;14;07;03
And so they warn tourists, for example,
not to go there.
00;14;07;03 - 00;14;10;03
That's what you were referring to
about being the red zone.
00;14;10;04 - 00;14;12;08
This is a red zone. Don't go
there. It's very bad.
00;14;12;08 - 00;14;16;02
We were in the red zone and there was it
was, you know, people were lovely.
00;14;16;02 - 00;14;19;24
The only thing that was scary
was, was the police. Their big
00;14;19;24 - 00;14;22;24
armored vehicles and,
you know, driving around and,
00;14;23;14 - 00;14;26;25
you're never quite sure
what they're going to do, but, yeah.
00;14;26;25 - 00;14;30;11
So there's especially since the people's
uprising in 2019, when
00;14;31;15 - 00;14;33;02
not just Mapuches, but
00;14;33;02 - 00;14;38;19
people across Chile rose up
en masse to demand an end to neoliberalism
00;14;38;19 - 00;14;41;19
and an end to the economic system
that was,
00;14;42;05 - 00;14;45;05
crushing everybody's ability to live.
00;14;45;14 - 00;14;48;21
Ever since then,
there's been an especially large,
00;14;49;08 - 00;14;51;28
military presence in the Mapuche territories.
00;14;51;28 - 00;14;54;20
A lot of the, traditional Mapuche land,
00;14;54;20 - 00;14;59;21
is now being controlled
by, forestry companies,
00;14;59;29 - 00;15;03;24
and I believe originally some,
some forestry was was more public.
00;15;03;24 - 00;15;05;27
But then under Pinochet,
they privatized it.
00;15;05;27 - 00;15;08;27
And then they took more Mapuche land.
00;15;09;17 - 00;15;12;05
Yeah. There was, Salvador Allende.
00;15;12;05 - 00;15;16;00
Who was the, more socialist president
00;15;16;00 - 00;15;19;19
that was overthrown in a US
back coup by Pinochet.
00;15;20;10 - 00;15;24;02
He was trying to make a lot of the land
public and under public ownership.
00;15;24;02 - 00;15;27;16
He was creating
publicly owned pulp mills, for example,
00;15;27;16 - 00;15;30;16
to create paper for internal use in Chile.
00;15;30;21 - 00;15;33;18
He gave the Mapuches back land.
00;15;34;29 - 00;15;35;16
Allende did.
00;15;35;16 - 00;15;37;10
He created a land reform policy
00;15;37;10 - 00;15;40;27
that gave them a purchase back
850,000 acres of land.
00;15;41;15 - 00;15;45;26
So, you know, that was there was a really
positive trajectory going on under Allende.
00;15;46;04 - 00;15;49;09
And then when when, Pinochet came in
00;15;49;09 - 00;15;53;05
and Allende was killed, that was all just kind
of switched off, almost like a faucet.
00;15;53;05 - 00;15;56;05
It just stopped
and then everything was reversed.
00;15;56;27 - 00;15;59;27
So, yeah, it's it was,
00;16;00;06 - 00;16;01;29
it was very shocking to see.
00;16;01;29 - 00;16;05;02
But then the pulp mills that Allende created
00;16;05;02 - 00;16;08;19
to be publicly owned pulp
mills, of course, were privatized.
00;16;08;19 - 00;16;11;10
And now that's
what we're seeing in Mapuche territories.
00;16;11;10 - 00;16;16;03
This huge pulp mill there called Arauco,
which is one of the biggest in the world
00;16;16;09 - 00;16;19;24
that is, you know,
just devouring the land with their pine plantations
00;16;21;00 - 00;16;21;21
because their,
00;16;21;21 - 00;16;25;14
their demand for raw material is so huge.
00;16;25;18 - 00;16;29;11
Did some of the Mapuche address
the impact of,
00;16;29;11 - 00;16;33;18
that industrial agriculture,
on their culture?
00;16;35;08 - 00;16;36;06
Yeah, absolutely.
00;16;36;06 - 00;16;40;26
The industrial agriculture, well,
the industrial pine plantations,
00;16;40;26 - 00;16;45;14
in particular have had a huge impact
on the Mapuche culture.
00;16;45;14 - 00;16;48;14
Their culture was, you know,
00;16;49;08 - 00;16;54;07
for centuries,
very much, wedded or intertwined
00;16;54;07 - 00;16;58;18
with the forests, you know, their,
their medicine came from the forest.
00;16;58;23 - 00;17;00;18
Many of their foods came from the forest.
00;17;00;18 - 00;17;03;18
The dyes they used for their clothing
came from the forest.
00;17;04;02 - 00;17;06;00
Everything came from the forest.
It was all.
00;17;06;00 - 00;17;07;23
Everything was intertwined
with the forest.
00;17;07;23 - 00;17;12;21
And so when the forests were taken away,
when they were taken out of the forest,
00;17;13;00 - 00;17;15;24
and then the forests were turned into pine
plantations,
00;17;15;24 - 00;17;20;02
this caused
tremendous hardship for the Mapche people.
00;17;20;02 - 00;17;23;25
And that's why
much of the Mapuche culture was lost
00;17;23;25 - 00;17;27;00
during that so-called pacification period,
when Mapuches were,
00;17;27;19 - 00;17;29;28
removed from their land
and many people were massacred.
00;17;31;05 - 00;17;32;11
They were they literally
00;17;32;11 - 00;17;35;24
lost their connection to the land
because they were taken away from it.
00;17;35;24 - 00;17;38;10
So when the young people came back,
00;17;38;10 - 00;17;41;18
in the 90s and said,
we want to restore our culture,
00;17;41;18 - 00;17;44;28
we want to restore our language,
we need to have land.
00;17;45;02 - 00;17;47;27
We need to have our land
to make all of that happen.
00;17;47;27 - 00;17;51;05
And so that's been a huge part
of this land
00;17;51;05 - 00;17;53;24
reclaim effort is it's
not just about having land.
00;17;53;24 - 00;17;58;07
It's about having language, culture,
spirituality and all of those traditions
00;17;58;28 - 00;18;03;10
that the Mapuche people lost, over the years because of the
repression and violence of the state.
00;18;04;10 - 00;18;07;12
It would be nice to hear the words
of the Mapuche.
00;18;07;15 - 00;18;12;02
So did you, did GJEP, did Global Justice
Ecology Project
00;18;12;02 - 00;18;14;17
do any field reporting on this?
00;18;14;17 - 00;18;15;03
We did.
00;18;15;03 - 00;18;18;06
And that was one of the specific specific
00;18;18;06 - 00;18;23;04
intentions of our delegation
was not just to go and talk to people.
00;18;23;26 - 00;18;27;11
And hear what they had to say,
but to record what they had to say.
00;18;27;11 - 00;18;32;08
So through video, you know,
and through audio, through photography,
00;18;32;08 - 00;18;33;08
we recorded
00;18;33;08 - 00;18;34;17
what people were talking about,
00;18;34;17 - 00;18;37;26
what they were showing
us, what their experience was.
00;18;37;26 - 00;18;41;18
And one of the things that we did
when we met with each community
00;18;41;18 - 00;18;44;22
or each activist was, say, yeah,
we don't want to speak for you.
00;18;44;23 - 00;18;46;04
We don't want to be the ones
00;18;46;04 - 00;18;49;12
saying what you are experiencing,
what you are feeling.
00;18;49;20 - 00;18;52;02
We want you to tell your own stories.
00;18;52;02 - 00;18;54;29
And so that was part of the whole thing.
00;18;54;29 - 00;18;56;24
And so we came back of it,
00;18;56;24 - 00;19;00;08
came back from there with,
you know, an enormous amount of material.
00;19;00;08 - 00;19;03;09
Now, of course, is the challenge of
sifting through it and figuring out what
00;19;03;09 - 00;19;06;13
we're going to do with it,
and how to make the best use of it.
00;19;06;13 - 00;19;10;16
But people were really open with us,
and part of what opened the door,
00;19;10;16 - 00;19;15;00
which was really interesting, was
we have a book called Portraits of Struggle,
00;19;15;13 - 00;19;18;23
which documents Indigenous
and other struggles over the past
00;19;18;23 - 00;19;22;20
50 years, and a number of the struggles
that were depicted in
00;19;22;20 - 00;19;24;20
the book were from Chile.
00;19;24;20 - 00;19;27;10
And so we have a Spanish
version of the book.
00;19;27;10 - 00;19;30;10
We gave it to each community lonco
00;19;30;16 - 00;19;34;13
whenever we visited a community
or an activist, we gave it to them.
00;19;34;13 - 00;19;40;13
And, you know, it
really opened up people's trust with us.
00;19;40;13 - 00;19;43;23
You know, not just that we've been going
there for 20 years, but that we have
00;19;44;09 - 00;19;48;24
documented what has been going on in Chile
with their own communities.
00;19;49;06 - 00;19;52;29
And as a result of that,
you know, people were really open with us.
00;19;52;29 - 00;19;57;04
They really told us what they're
experiencing, their fears about the
00;19;57;04 - 00;20;02;09
repression, their hopes for the future
that schools that they're building.
00;20;02;09 - 00;20;06;21
I mean, it was it was really
it opened up the dialog in a way that,
00;20;07;08 - 00;20;08;29
I don't think would
have been possible otherwise.
00;20;10;08 - 00;20;10;26
You met with
00;20;10;26 - 00;20;14;08
political prisoners,
the Mapuche consider,
00;20;14;10 - 00;20;17;29
the people imprisoned
from their cause, political prisoners.
00;20;18;09 - 00;20;21;09
So you met with Mapuche
political prisoners,
00;20;21;14 - 00;20;24;04
and, there must have been translation.
00;20;24;04 - 00;20;26;26
So you're meeting in this prison?
00;20;26;26 - 00;20;31;20
How was how was the prison meeting done
logistically?
00;20;31;20 - 00;20;34;19
Was there translation?
What what was going on?
00;20;34;19 - 00;20;35;01
Yeah.
00;20;35;01 - 00;20;37;24
We were very happy to be able
to have the opportunity
00;20;37;24 - 00;20;40;24
to go into the prisons
and talk to the prisoners themselves.
00;20;40;24 - 00;20;45;08
And that was, you know,
we had a person in,
00;20;45;08 - 00;20;48;27
in, Chile who was helping
coordinate everything for us.
00;20;49;08 - 00;20;52;02
And, you know, it was amazing
that he was able to make that happen.
00;20;52;02 - 00;20;53;23
But, yes, we went into the prison.
00;20;53;23 - 00;20;56;01
We weren't allowed to bring any
00;20;56;01 - 00;21;00;16
anything to video or take photos or audio
or anything like that,
00;21;00;16 - 00;21;04;10
but we were allowed to take notes,
so we took a lot of notes,
00;21;04;14 - 00;21;06;07
while we were in there.
00;21;06;07 - 00;21;09;12
And one of the people that was with us
was there specifically
00;21;09;12 - 00;21;13;23
to ask the, the,
the prisoners about torture.
00;21;13;23 - 00;21;14;26
Had they been tortured?
00;21;14;26 - 00;21;16;26
He was with a committee about torture.
00;21;16;26 - 00;21;19;05
So he was collecting that kind of data.
00;21;19;05 - 00;21;22;10
We were talking to them about, you know,
why were they there?
00;21;22;10 - 00;21;24;16
You know,
what was going on with the repression?
00;21;24;16 - 00;21;26;17
What were the situations in the prison?
00;21;26;17 - 00;21;28;15
We met with?
00;21;28;15 - 00;21;31;23
The, the one of the founders
of one of the Mapuche
00;21;31;28 - 00;21;35;10
activists youth groups from the 1990s
named Héctor Llaitul.
00;21;35;24 - 00;21;38;26
And he talked to us about his situation,
00;21;39;03 - 00;21;42;14
having being a leader and being arrested,
basically for being a leader,
00;21;42;14 - 00;21;45;22
for being a spokesperson,
not for any actions, but just for what
00;21;45;22 - 00;21;48;22
he said, literally
in, you know, in prison for what he said,
00;21;48;29 - 00;21;51;23
and how the Mapuche people are
00;21;53;01 - 00;21;56;02
being disrespected in the prison
and that it's violating
00;21;56;02 - 00;22;00;03
their international rights in the prisons
because they're not allowed to be
00;22;00;13 - 00;22;02;11
in groups with other Mapuche people.
00;22;02;11 - 00;22;02;27
They're not allowed
00;22;02;27 - 00;22;04;27
to practice their spirituality,
they're not allowed
00;22;04;27 - 00;22;06;23
to have their traditional foods.
00;22;06;23 - 00;22;11;00
So all of these things that, that
make it more difficult for them as Mapuche
00;22;11;00 - 00;22;12;01
people, but,
00;22;12;01 - 00;22;12;20
you know, all the way
00;22;12;20 - 00;22;15;20
to not being allowed to have their,
their traditional medicines.
00;22;15;27 - 00;22;19;07
And that's a big deal
because one of the ways
00;22;19;12 - 00;22;21;28
that Mapuche people in prison
00;22;21;28 - 00;22;26;10
put pressure on the authorities
to get concessions, whether it's
00;22;26;20 - 00;22;30;11
to be moved closer to their families
or whatever, is through hunger strikes
00;22;30;16 - 00;22;34;25
and, you know, these hunger strikes often
go on for a very long time
00;22;35;07 - 00;22;39;29
and have a lot of long term health impacts
on the people who participate in them.
00;22;40;11 - 00;22;44;08
And so Hector Llaitul,
was talking to us about, you know,
00;22;44;08 - 00;22;47;16
all of the different hunger strikes he's
been on to try to get these concessions.
00;22;47;16 - 00;22;50;22
And they've had all of these physical
tolls on him, and he's not allowed
00;22;50;22 - 00;22;54;05
to have his traditional medicine,
which he feels is, you know,
00;22;54;05 - 00;22;58;25
a form of torture
to not allow him to be able to,
00;23;00;16 - 00;23;01;12
you know, address his
00;23;01;12 - 00;23;04;12
physical problems
with his traditional medicines.
00;23;04;14 - 00;23;07;10
Anyway, it's
it was very interesting
00;23;07;10 - 00;23;11;12
talking to the prisoners and listening
to what they're going through, what their.
00;23;11;12 - 00;23;13;29
And then we met with their families
and heard from their families
00;23;13;29 - 00;23;17;06
what their families are going through,
because their loved ones are in prison.
00;23;17;15 - 00;23;23;04
So you also met with,
a political prisoner who, through a hunger
00;23;23;04 - 00;23;28;21
strike, was moved closer to his community,
and, some sort of agrarian prison.
00;23;28;21 - 00;23;29;21
Correct?
00;23;29;21 - 00;23;31;02
Yeah, that was interesting.
00;23;31;02 - 00;23;34;05
So this was,
one of these types of prisons
00;23;34;05 - 00;23;36;24
where you're allowed to go
out of the prison and work during the day.
00;23;36;24 - 00;23;39;24
Then you have to come back to the prison
at night and be in the prison,
00;23;40;04 - 00;23;43;18
you know, when you're not actually
out in the world working.
00;23;43;27 - 00;23;45;21
He was very interesting.
00;23;45;21 - 00;23;48;18
And, you know, he was
he talked to us a lot
00;23;48;18 - 00;23;52;23
about the political situation
with Mapuches in Chile.
00;23;52;23 - 00;23;56;14
And, you know, that was nice
because we were actually able to get video
00;23;56;14 - 00;24;00;05
and photo of him because he was in this,
this sort of lower,
00;24;00;18 - 00;24;03;18
security situation.
00;24;03;27 - 00;24;05;04
So that was interesting.
00;24;05;04 - 00;24;09;11
And he showed us his, his garden
and his greenhouse and his workshop.
00;24;09;11 - 00;24;12;11
And, so that was that was interesting.
00;24;12;16 - 00;24;15;21
So. Anne Petermann,
was there any big takeaway,
00;24;15;26 - 00;24;19;20
singular takeaway from your visit
00;24;19;20 - 00;24;22;20
with, the Mapuche political prisoners?
00;24;22;21 - 00;24;25;04
I would say it's the the
00;24;25;04 - 00;24;28;04
this idea that of preventative prison,
00;24;28;09 - 00;24;34;06
you know, that people can be picked up
and just held for two years,
00;24;34;15 - 00;24;38;18
which we ran into that actually
in, in 2019 when we were down there
00;24;38;18 - 00;24;43;09
during the People's uprising,
we were able to be in the courtroom when
00;24;44;20 - 00;24;45;26
Alberto Curamil
00;24;45;26 - 00;24;48;26
who was a Goldman prize winner, was,
00;24;48;29 - 00;24;53;02
being tried for, this ridiculous crime.
00;24;53;02 - 00;24;54;04
I think he was he was tried
00;24;54;04 - 00;24;59;00
for robbing a convenience store
or something with with a fellow...
00;24;59;01 - 00;25;01;18
He's actually a lonko.
Lonko Curamil.
00;25;01;18 - 00;25;05;25
And he had won the Goldman Prize
because he had successfully stopped
00;25;06;11 - 00;25;09;17
hydroelectric dams on the Cautín River,
00;25;10;13 - 00;25;13;00
which is a a sacred Mapuche river.
00;25;13;00 - 00;25;17;14
And as a result of being so successful
in stopping these dams,
00;25;17;14 - 00;25;20;18
he was put in prison,
you know, on these trumped up charges.
00;25;20;26 - 00;25;25;25
And he sat there in prison for 18 months
before he had a trial.
00;25;26;11 - 00;25;29;12
And his daughter actually had to,
00;25;29;29 - 00;25;33;14
accept the Goldman Award in his stead
because he was still in prison
00;25;33;14 - 00;25;37;03
when the Goldman Award
was given to him in 2019.
00;25;37;13 - 00;25;37;26
so. Yeah.
00;25;37;26 - 00;25;40;20
This is not a new thing for the Mapuche people.
00;25;40;20 - 00;25;43;17
You know, this is something
this is a, tactic that the state
00;25;43;17 - 00;25;47;28
has been using
to take activists, out of the way,
00;25;48;16 - 00;25;51;11
and out of the way of development
or whatever.
00;25;51;11 - 00;25;53;00
But it's not just, of course, in Chile,
you know,
00;25;53;00 - 00;25;55;26
we see this with land defenders,
Indigenous land defenders
00;25;55;26 - 00;25;59;19
all over the world that they are targeted
for violence and prison,
00;26;00;16 - 00;26;03;01
just for just for defending their lands.
00;26;03;01 - 00;26;05;16
We talked to you about, Brazil also,
00;26;05;16 - 00;26;09;01
there's a lot of,
industrial agriculture in Brazil.
00;26;10;02 - 00;26;12;27
And we have industrial agriculture
in Chile.
00;26;12;27 - 00;26;15;27
We have Indigenous struggle
in both countries.
00;26;16;02 - 00;26;19;11
And, both of those,
00;26;19;24 - 00;26;23;25
and both of those industries
started under dictatorship.
00;26;24;26 - 00;26;25;12
Correct.
00;26;25;12 - 00;26;25;23
Yeah.
00;26;25;23 - 00;26;30;10
That's, that's something
that isn't very widely known.
00;26;30;10 - 00;26;35;18
But yeah, there's a direct correlation
from dictatorship between dictatorships
00;26;35;27 - 00;26;40;08
and industrial monoculture tree
plantations, and not just in Brazil
00;26;40;08 - 00;26;41;11
and not just in Chile.
00;26;41;11 - 00;26;45;03
But we saw that with apartheid
in South Africa, in other countries, in
00;26;45;03 - 00;26;48;06
Latin America, when they had
dictatorships, you know, tree plantations
00;26;48;06 - 00;26;51;12
came in Indonesia, you know,
this is something this is a pattern.
00;26;51;22 - 00;26;55;02
You know, the dictatorship comes in
people's land is stolen from them
00;26;55;02 - 00;26;58;27
and given to, industrial timber
plantations, other things as well.
00;26;58;27 - 00;27;01;20
But a lot of the land goes to these
tree plantations.
00;27;01;20 - 00;27;06;03
So we've spoken a lot about the Mapuche
culture, the Mapuche, struggle.
00;27;06;19 - 00;27;11;12
But overall these industrial tree
plantations, are affecting,
00;27;11;21 - 00;27;15;11
a whole variety of people
and communities with fire.
00;27;16;13 - 00;27;17;16
Could you talk about that?
00;27;17;16 - 00;27;17;27
Yeah.
00;27;17;27 - 00;27;21;28
That's, something that in in Chile
is a very, very big deal.
00;27;23;11 - 00;27;25;04
Global Justice Ecology Project went down
00;27;25;04 - 00;27;28;04
on a different delegation in 2017,
00;27;28;14 - 00;27;32;28
and this was shortly
after the worst wildfires
00;27;32;28 - 00;27;37;03
in the country's history,
which was over the 2016, 2017...
00;27;38;09 - 00;27;41;09
Well, our winter there, summer and,
00;27;42;03 - 00;27;45;03
they were the worst
wildfires ever recorded.
00;27;45;03 - 00;27;48;19
And they then they started in timber
plantations and eucalyptus and pine
00;27;48;19 - 00;27;51;28
plantations,
both eucalyptus trees and pine trees
00;27;51;28 - 00;27;56;15
are incredibly flammable
and they both are extremely water
00;27;56;15 - 00;27;57;13
intensive.
00;27;57;13 - 00;28;01;11
So with the added, you know, the added
bonus of climate change,
00;28;02;00 - 00;28;06;09
driving, you know, heatwaves,
you end up with these extremely,
00;28;07;12 - 00;28;11;10
well, these really flammable situations
where a strike of lightning
00;28;11;10 - 00;28;14;10
or somebody throw their cigaret
out the window or whatever
00;28;14;18 - 00;28;19;14
caused these huge conflagrations that are,
you know, more than just a wildfire.
00;28;19;14 - 00;28;22;19
They call them firestorms
or they call them mega fires.
00;28;22;19 - 00;28;24;02
You know, they're so massive.
00;28;24;02 - 00;28;26;24
They just destroy entire communities.
00;28;26;24 - 00;28;29;24
They destroy the plantations,
they destroy native forest.
00;28;30;05 - 00;28;31;15
They destroy so much.
00;28;31;15 - 00;28;35;11
And now they're saying, you know, it's
gotten even worse since that time.
00;28;35;23 - 00;28;37;22
The 2023 fires were even worse.
00;28;37;22 - 00;28;40;23
And they they went from calling
the mega fires to giga fires,
00;28;41;24 - 00;28;43;09
because they're just so intense.
00;28;43;09 - 00;28;46;16
So. And many people
were killed in the 2023 fires.
00;28;47;04 - 00;28;50;24
So its you know, it's this is something
that's not just impacting
00;28;50;29 - 00;28;54;28
the Indigenous communities
or the the rural communities.
00;28;54;28 - 00;28;59;02
It's the 2023 fires were in an area
that was very touristy,
00;28;59;10 - 00;29;02;22
kind of like these Los Angeles fires
that we just had in California.
00;29;02;22 - 00;29;07;14
They don't you know, wildfires are super
particular, about who they target.
00;29;07;14 - 00;29;09;07
It's where more where you live.
00;29;09;07 - 00;29;12;24
And, in Chile
there's just so many plantations
00;29;12;24 - 00;29;15;24
all over the place in these regions
that they're, they're
00;29;15;25 - 00;29;18;25
it's very dangerous to live there.
00;29;19;03 - 00;29;20;01
Because of the fire danger.
00;29;20;01 - 00;29;24;05
Did you talk to any non Mapuche
communities that were affected by fire?
00;29;24;17 - 00;29;25;10
Yes, yes.
00;29;25;10 - 00;29;29;18
In 2017 when we were there,
we did a whole actual tour,
00;29;30;22 - 00;29;34;05
looking at communities
that had been impacted by wildfire.
00;29;34;05 - 00;29;36;20
And so we met with many people.
00;29;36;20 - 00;29;38;11
I don't think we met with any
00;29;38;11 - 00;29;41;25
Mapuche people at that time
who had been directly affected by fire.
00;29;41;25 - 00;29;46;20
But we met with a lot of communities
that had lost... a lot of families,
00;29;46;20 - 00;29;49;19
I should say, that had lost their homes,
that had lost their orchards,
00;29;49;19 - 00;29;53;14
their gardens, their livelihoods,
because of these fires.
00;29;53;14 - 00;29;57;03
And we saw with their own eyes
that's the, you know, the scorched earth,
00;29;57;21 - 00;30;00;27
which was interesting
because where the eucalyptus
00;30;00;27 - 00;30;03;27
had burned down,
they were already resprouting.
00;30;04;29 - 00;30;07;18
So, you know, in the,
in the native forest, it's going to take
00;30;07;18 - 00;30;11;06
a very long time for the native forest
to come back from being burned like that.
00;30;11;16 - 00;30;13;26
But the eucalyptus, that's a fire that's,
00;30;13;26 - 00;30;15;09
you know, they they're involved with fire.
00;30;15;09 - 00;30;16;29
It's a fire dependent species.
00;30;16;29 - 00;30;20;03
And so they were already starting
to come back, you know,
00;30;20;03 - 00;30;23;03
the trees that caused
the fire were already returning.
00;30;23;07 - 00;30;25;07
What was the response to your trip
00;30;25;07 - 00;30;28;19
in the media.
This, last trip,
00;30;29;04 - 00;30;33;00
we started out with a press conference
after the meeting
00;30;33;00 - 00;30;36;18
with the political prisoners in Temuco,
we did a press conference outside
00;30;36;18 - 00;30;40;04
with some of the family members
of the political prisoners.
00;30;40;04 - 00;30;43;12
And the point was to,
00;30;44;06 - 00;30;48;24
kind of illuminate this racism
of the judicial system in Chile,
00;30;48;25 - 00;30;53;19
which really targets Mapuche people
and puts them through a lot more,
00;30;53;21 - 00;30;56;21
legal rigors than they do other people.
00;30;56;22 - 00;30;59;25
So, yeah, we got, the, the largest media
00;30;59;25 - 00;31;03;03
in that Mapuche territory,
which is called Bio Bio Radio.
00;31;03;03 - 00;31;04;28
So that was a really worthwhile endeavor.
00;31;04;28 - 00;31;09;06
And, you know, not just for GJEP,
of course, but for the families
00;31;09;06 - 00;31;12;06
to talk about their political prisoner
relatives.
00;31;12;17 - 00;31;15;21
They the
the people in Chile, the Mapuche people
00;31;16;29 - 00;31;19;06
really get a hard time in the press.
00;31;19;06 - 00;31;21;18
I mean, while we were there.
00;31;21;18 - 00;31;24;00
Well, just the response to that story.
00;31;24;00 - 00;31;27;25
There were so many haters
on the social media of Bio Bio Radio,
00;31;28;04 - 00;31;32;15
even some haters on our own Global
Justice Ecology Project, social media,
00;31;32;15 - 00;31;36;12
they just get an unbelievably unfair
shake.
00;31;37;00 - 00;31;40;21
From the media,
the fact that we were able to put
00;31;40;21 - 00;31;45;02
a little bit more into the media
from their perspective was was good.
00;31;45;02 - 00;31;48;02
I felt like that was a very positive thing
that we were able to do.
00;31;49;14 - 00;31;51;24
What is the usurpation law
00;31;51;24 - 00;31;54;24
that's been used so much
against the Mapuche?
00;31;55;14 - 00;31;57;20
Yeah. So this is a new one.
00;31;57;20 - 00;32;01;07
The Mapuche people have been trying
trying to reclaim their land
00;32;01;07 - 00;32;04;04
for quite a while,
and the government has been getting,
00;32;04;04 - 00;32;07;04
I guess, less and less
enthusiastic about it.
00;32;07;15 - 00;32;12;11
And so they've actually created a law
now called the usurpation law,
00;32;12;11 - 00;32;15;27
which makes it illegal
to do these land occupations.
00;32;16;08 - 00;32;21;16
So one of the women that we met with,
a woman named Sarah, was the first person
00;32;21;29 - 00;32;24;29
in her region, arrested
under the usurpation law.
00;32;25;08 - 00;32;28;08
And she's going to trial right now.
00;32;28;15 - 00;32;30;09
For plowing her land.
00;32;30;09 - 00;32;32;18
She was arrested for plowing her land.
00;32;32;18 - 00;32;36;08
And, the tractor, the person who owned
the tractor was arrested as well.
00;32;36;19 - 00;32;41;12
So, you know, it's it's really this absurd
law that actually,
00;32;41;19 - 00;32;45;06
in and of itself is illegal.
This an illegal law.
00;32;45;06 - 00;32;48;27
It violates international indigenous
rights laws
00;32;49;06 - 00;32;53;11
such as ILO 169,
you know, which gives Indigenous Peoples
00;32;53;11 - 00;32;57;08
the rights to have land,
and it violates the UN declaration
00;32;57;08 - 00;33;00;27
on the Rights of Indigenous Peoples,
which is much more strong
00;33;00;27 - 00;33;04;04
in giving Indigenous Peoples
the rights to land and water and so forth.
00;33;05;14 - 00;33;07;11
And Chile is signed on to both of those.
00;33;07;11 - 00;33;11;16
It's ratified both of those things,
and yet they pass
00;33;11;16 - 00;33;14;26
this law that violates
both of those international treaties.
00;33;15;12 - 00;33;18;05
So, people are really rising up
00;33;18;05 - 00;33;21;26
against the usurpation law,
are trying to raise awareness about it.
00;33;21;26 - 00;33;25;11
And Global Justice Ecology Project to
try to help with that as much as possible.
00;33;25;11 - 00;33;27;27
We have an action alert that closes today.
00;33;27;27 - 00;33;30;27
Well, today being the day
that we're doing the interview,
00;33;30;29 - 00;33;33;11
on the 28th of February,
00;33;33;11 - 00;33;36;20
which is demanding
that the board government,
00;33;36;28 - 00;33;41;18
repeal the usurpation law
that Sara who's being tried
00;33;41;18 - 00;33;45;23
that her charges are dropped, that
no one else has tried under this law and
00;33;45;23 - 00;33;49;21
trying to raise awareness about the fact
that it sets such a dangerous precedent
00;33;50;06 - 00;33;53;06
by saying that,
you know, countries can pass laws
00;33;53;06 - 00;33;56;05
that violate
these international agreements.
00;33;56;12 - 00;33;58;27
So we're we're going to
we're watching that very carefully.
00;33;58;27 - 00;34;01;25
We understand that
March is going to be a big month
00;34;01;25 - 00;34;05;24
for political prisoners
in Chile, political Mapuche prisoners in Chile.
00;34;06;06 - 00;34;07;18
So we're keeping an eye on that.
00;34;07;18 - 00;34;10;18
And, doing as much as we can to support
00;34;11;02 - 00;34;14;02
the struggle of the people
to take their land back,
00;34;14;02 - 00;34;18;08
which is their right as indigenous people
and cannot be taken away from them
00;34;18;08 - 00;34;21;22
by these, these ridiculous laws
like the usurpation law.
00;34;22;20 - 00;34;26;25
Also, there's been somewhat of a back
and forth legally.
00;34;26;25 - 00;34;30;10
I mean, the Allende government
gave Mapuche a back their land
00;34;30;22 - 00;34;33;22
and then it was taken back from,
you know, it was
00;34;33;22 - 00;34;36;14
then it was taken
back by the Pinochet government.
00;34;36;14 - 00;34;41;11
So and there was actually some treaty to
that is not being respected
00;34;41;11 - 00;34;43;02
regarding the Mapuche. So. Yeah.
00;34;43;02 - 00;34;46;28
So two centuries ago, there was a treaty
that was signed with them,
00;34;46;28 - 00;34;51;20
a push, a people called the Tapihue Treaty
that gave them all of the territory
00;34;51;20 - 00;34;55;17
south of the Bio Bio River in Chile,
which is a huge territory,
00;34;55;17 - 00;34;57;27
which was,
you know, their, their traditional land.
00;34;59;00 - 00;35;01;20
And then it was only
00;35;01;20 - 00;35;04;27
what, 35, 40 years after that, that they
00;35;05;04 - 00;35;08;21
that the, the government of Chile decided
they wanted that land back.
00;35;09;03 - 00;35;11;10
They didn't
want the Mapuches to have that that land.
00;35;11;10 - 00;35;14;10
And so they launched the pacification
of the Araucania.
00;35;14;20 - 00;35;17;06
When they and they went in and displaced
people,
00;35;17;06 - 00;35;21;22
put them in reservations
and, massacred large numbers of people.
00;35;22;03 - 00;35;24;22
So it's been a,
yeah, the, the situation with the Mapuche
00;35;24;22 - 00;35;28;08
has been a real rollercoaster
over the years, you know, more off
00;35;28;08 - 00;35;29;03
than on.
00;35;29;03 - 00;35;32;02
As far as,
you know, getting their rights back.
00;35;32;02 - 00;35;36;24
But people are determined this is not
something that they're going to give up.
00;35;36;24 - 00;35;40;08
You know, they're not going to give up
their right to have ancestral territory
00;35;40;12 - 00;35;44;09
and a place to grow food
and have livestock and a culture
00;35;44;13 - 00;35;47;12
and a spiritual existence
that is their own.
00;35;47;12 - 00;35;50;21
Anne Petermann, thank you for joining us on
Breaking Green.
00;35;51;02 - 00;35;52;21
Thank you
so much, Steve. This was really fun.