choice Magazine

Beyond the Page ~ Jennifer Britton ~Reinventing the Business of Coaching

April 12, 2022 Garry Schleifer
choice Magazine
Beyond the Page ~ Jennifer Britton ~Reinventing the Business of Coaching
Show Notes Transcript

In this interview, we talk with Jennifer Britton about her article Reinventing the Business of Coaching.

In this article, we look at how the layers of change have impacted, and continue to impact, the coaching profession. We explore the ongoing evolution from the landscape of technology, industry, business, skills, our client, digitalization and virtualization.

Jennifer’s work in the area of designing and delivering coaching skills for leaders has been awarded multiple times. Her work as a coach in the healthcare sector was awarded the Prism Award for Excellence in Coaching in 2016, as well as an Award of Excellence in Curriculum Design by i4pL, and in early 2022 she was awarded the Individual Contributor Award by ICF Toronto in recognition for her contributions to both the local and global association of coaches, particularly the support and thought leadership provided during the pandemic with supports around virtual conversations and coaching in the emerging remote and hybrid world.

Full article can be found here: https://bit.ly/BtPjenniferBritton
Link to website: https://www.potentialsrealized.com/
Grab your free issue of choice Magazine here - https://choice-online.com


Speaker 1:

I'm Garry Schleifer . And this is beyond the page, brought to you by choice. The premier magazine and ultimate resource for professional coaches choice is more than a magazine. It's a community of people who use and share coaching tools, tips, and take techniques to add value to their businesses and have an impact on lives. It's an institution of internal learning built over the course of believe it or not 20 years dedicated to improving lives. Hard to believe. In today's episode, I talked with coach author thought leader, trainer , her and friend, Jennifer Britain . I should say friend, first author of the choice magazine featured article that we're gonna talk about today and so much more reinventing the business of coaching. Well, what can we say about Jennifer? Well , she specializes in the area of group and team coaching and has been an early pioneer in the virtual and remote space. She can tell you stories about what it was like in the old days, since the early 1990s she's led teams and programming virtually first in the international humanitarian sector, leading teams for the UN and later through her company, potentials realized, and award-winning coaching skills, training company, virtual remote, and hybrid work is a focus of her recent TEDx talk and her latest book, reconnecting workspaces pathways to thrive in the virtual remote and hybrid world. She's the author of seven books, and I'm sure she's working on another, including reconnecting workspaces and the 90 day guide for success along with effective group coaching. Actually the first, the world's first book to be published on the topic of group coaching, by the way from one to many, I remember this one, well, best practice of team and group coaching, effective virtual conversations and plan, new track workbook and planner for virtual and remote professionals. Jen's also the host of the remote pathways podcast, which explores the people, places and processes of remote and hybrid work. She offers a number of ICF, continuing education pro programs. And we know we all love to have those CCUs and it's for coaches and leaders in the areas of, of course group and team coaching and virtual conversations, including group coaching essentials, which celebrated its 15th anniversary in 2021 in the height of the old pandemic. Learn more about Jennifer's work at group coaching, essentials.ca . Welcome Jennifer, my friend. And thank you so much for joining me today.

Speaker 2:

So good to see you, Gary, always nice to step into spring with Colie . <Laugh> so happy spring. I know it's not quite outside our doorstep. You're in the Toronto area.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, not Toronto area. We talk about there was freezing rain today . Anyway. I don't know if you know this, but you have the honor of being the first person in my podcast series that has spoken twice.

Speaker 2:

Fantastic.

Speaker 1:

I didn't realize

Speaker 2:

It . I love it. <Laugh>

Speaker 1:

I didn't even realize it . I was like, I go through every issue and I look for who I want to have and what article stands out. And, but I think is , you know, worthy of a podcast, if you will. And and I just chose you and , and our support person, Nancy said you know, you've already done Jennifer once before and I'm like, oh , oh, well,

Speaker 2:

We'll talk again. Always

Speaker 1:

We'll talk again. And you always have such, you've been at this for so long. You've evolved from just team and group coaching to virtual, to virtual and team coaching. I , the journey is amazing. Congratulations on everything you've accomplished.

Speaker 2:

Well, thank you, Gary. And I, you know, likewise, back at you, 20 years in this industry that keeps evolving. So I think really apropo to this latest issue of choice, which again, like what are , what is happening in our profession? How are we continuing to evolve as practitioners? How are we continuing to evolve as professionals as our clients' world evolves? And I think that's the beauty of this profession. We, we are always changing just like our clients are so great to sit to down with you . I hope, you know, it's not just two that we get to sit down again and again,

Speaker 1:

I know, and over and over, and this is the issue that your article is in as you know, so reimagining coaching, I love the cover. We are always getting better and better at these covers. You are ,

Speaker 2:

You are

Speaker 1:

Great .

Speaker 2:

You ,

Speaker 1:

I don't even think I need to ask you, but I'm gonna say reinventing the business of coaching, what you just said. What had you write the piece ? I mean, I can answer that question for you, but I'll let you throw in whatever you like,

Speaker 2:

<Laugh> you can round it out. Well, you know really this whole notion of like reinvention, what hasn't been reinvented in the last couple of years, especially throughout the pandemic. I think it's it's for many, you know, been the precipitating factor to , to so much change. And if we look at where we are now, Q2 almost of 20, 22 things are changing again. Right? And so it's like, some people are saying, let's go back, but a lot of people are saying, no, I don't wanna go back. And I think as we consider a whole, you know , volume of choice dedicated to reimagining coaching, we also need to look at what is new, what is different, what continues to evolve. And so, as I say, in my article, you know, coaching has been at the front end of virtualization of, of remote work. Mm-Hmm <affirmative> when I started as a coach, actually a April 1st, 2004 . So almost 18 years ago, I knew that this business was going to be a virtual business. That was unheard of like your business was virtual as well. So for many of us, most of us as coaches we've been used to this, but there are so many new avenues that are opening up from, you know, what's happening with artificial intelligence and the whole tech piece, which I don't think will go too far down that pathway today, but <laugh> , that's gonna really change, you know, I think how components of our work take place. I think what I'm most conscious of right at the moment is just, you know, how are people navigating the, the opening up of the world, the transition back to offices, the interesting dialogue, and sometimes conflict that's emerging in terms of like, do I really wanna go back? I'm not ready to go back. I can't go back. I'm a different person. And actually this morning I was reflecting on this cuz for years, as you heard in my bio, you know, you know, that I worked for any international sector and , and most, not most some of my work was about helping people get prepared for a global assignment. You know, being dropped into a different cultural context for a couple years of their life. And, and the first few days and weeks were either a make it or a break it and know, we often spent a lot of time thinking about the front end of that change, but what happens at the back end of change, when we go back or like we are now as human beings, you know, reopening, reimagining. And I think that's a really interesting area that a lot of people haven't explored and we're seeing and hearing the challenges and opportu that people are experiencing right now, have we really changed who we are? Are we really gonna acknowledge the change that, that has taken place? Or are we just gonna go back to something that we do it because it's always how we did it.

Speaker 1:

Well, like a rubber band, we go back to its original shape or does it actually become slightly different. Right. You know, did it get stretched? And we just didn't know that it's still that's stretched out bandaid or rubber band rather bandaid. Well , bandaids do stretch could

Speaker 2:

Be a bandaid too. Yeah .

Speaker 1:

<Laugh> ,

Speaker 2:

You know, like have we really morphed into something different? That's a bit of a philosophical question, but you know, I think also what's at the heart of your addition here is like, how do we as business owners, how do we as business professionals keep abreast, notice the trends really, you know, continue to navigate alongside our clients with the things that are coming at people so fast these days. Right . And that in and of itself is a , is a whole other issue as well.

Speaker 1:

Well, and you bring up that re it's brought that up really well in this article under one section business skills. And one of the things that hasn't really changed and has, is the need to be, think of yourself as a business person is how I like to say it. You know, we still have unfortunately reports of how coaches aren't making a living from doing coaching. Yes . And you've taken it back to, and then forward to not only that folks, but what about critical digital and cognitive capabilities, social, emotional skills, adaptability and resilience, and how do you handle all of this? Right. So, so it's really, you know, I'm gonna, I'm gonna ask you the question that's so much to handle and get your head around

Speaker 2:

It is. And I think this is where, you know, as coaches, as coaches, as you know, as in our skills, we hire mentor coaches, right? We work with MCCs. If we're ACCS, you work with, you know, season coaches, but as business owners, right. Are we really creating a sustainable livelihood? And for those that have met me before, this has been something I've been talking about since really the second year of my business, because one of the things that set this business up for success was I was a part-time business faculty member. The first few years of potential realized working with entrepreneurs, working with small business owners. And, you know, it was a challenge starting my own business and showing up to talk about marketing and you know, how do you write a business plan thinking, oh goodness, I haven't done this myself. So I think a lot of people probably have experienced that, but to be around for such a long time, we've gotta always be thinking about what is needed, what is next? And some of these things that I mentioned, like strategic thinking and planning a lot of people said at the start of the pandemic, well, why should I even plan anymore ? Well, you know, hopefully there will be a next something, whatever that next something is. And even if we can't see it, are we looking far enough down the road to start planning for it because businesses need time in order to pivot. So a couple of other skills that I think are really important right now, marketing, obviously because even the best kept secrets need to be heard. A couple years ago during the pandemic, I launched the micro brand of standout virtually and really was amazed at how many people were like, I don't like marketing, right? Like I knew coaches, didn't like marketing, but really coaches really don't like marketing. And in fact, this was one of the reasons why in 2018, I wrote and released the coaching business builder workbook and planner, which is for coaches, maybe like you listening in going, I really don't like even planning my marketing. And so it is at workbook to help you articulate, you know, who you are, what you're offering, what your clients want, but also a planner. So that on a weekly, monthly and quarterly basis, as well as an annual basis, you're actually starting to move into action because I think that's our biggest challenge as coaches. It can be very easy to get very busy doing the work, but are we at where we want our business, our life, our, you know, our impact to be a quarter from now six months from now a year or longer. And I think that's where this addition of of choice really fits in is getting people to think about where do you wanna go in your work and your impact of work with clients?

Speaker 1:

Well, it's almost our very , of the great resignation it's like determining. So is, you know, I mean, I can't think of a coach that doesn't want to be coaching. Now . That's a , an interesting statement right there. And to your point, so what do you want your coaching to look like a year from now two years from now? And if we match that with what we were talking about, to my sense, the overwhelm of everything we need to be on top of one, one step at a time, right? One a , a friend of mine said into marketing, move them needle one inch at a time, one inch at a time, right? Yeah . And so if you take this longer view, as I've been doing in my own work for choice magazine and just taking a step back and being more visionary than integrator, I I've found that it's a lot easier to see and to process information when I'm not trying to do it through a fire hose .

Speaker 2:

Absolutely. Well, you know, in coaching business builder, the whole theme, the mantra of that and plan due track is daily steps. Plus consistent action equals momentum. And I go back to one of the first coaching meetings I ever went to here in Toronto, Daniel pink came to school .

Speaker 1:

Oh yeah .

Speaker 2:

Toronto meeting, you might have been in that room .

Speaker 1:

I was there. That was

Speaker 2:

UT . And , and I remember thinking, you know, he was talking about his work and Jim Collins and Jim Collins, hedgehog principle, which was all about getting that flywheel started in business. And I have to say, that's really influenced me that whole, you know, when I was still, even with the UN as a leader, thinking about how would I position my business? This business said , I now head , what could that look like? And I was thinking, oh gosh, if I ever like, didn't work for someone, I would really need to get into this own rhythm. And I think that's a big key for success. So what, regardless of all the work we have on our plate, is there a 15 minute window that we can reserve for those passion project that we have, or is there a 15 minute window that we reserve for the business, you know, structure pieces, whether it's making that call to, you know, a cold contact or someone we met at a networking meeting or making sure that we have the best, you know, the best arrangement with our bank, even like, there's a lot of business tactical things that I think don't take a lot of time, but we need to build it in. And if we do that on a regular basis, daily or weekly, we can really move the needle in a very easy way. And I, you know, I walk my talk. This is why I've published. Yes. Seven business books in over a decade. It's only really one a year, one every year and a half

Speaker 1:

Only,

Speaker 2:

Only I'm working on more. Right. The it's , that's part of my passion. It's what keeps me going. And it's really, you know, the, the conversations that I have with my clients who are obviously ahead of the curve really influence, you know, the writing that comes out because people are like, how do you have time to like, come up with this? It's like, well, this is the world that I'm in every day before exactly it becomes this. So yeah , again, I think we're gonna continue to see a lot of the trends. You know, digitalization is here, virtualization. A lot of people are not gonna wanna go back into full-time work. The , the work week is changing as well. So it's an exciting time. And you know, when people need change, who's a great partner to be with a

Speaker 1:

Coach. So I'm gonna take a , a slightly different tack to what we were talking about. You , we were talking earlier about the impact of everything that's going on on coaches and how they need to pivot that sort of thing, but how can support the transitions that our , our clients and our, and the people we serve are experiencing like this great resignation we spoke about hybrid work, environmental sustainability, and what you just mentioned, digitalization and virtualization.

Speaker 2:

Yeah. Well, I think these are the , the challenges that our clients are grappling with of every day . And sometimes they just want that ear , right? We're not there as an expert, we're there to really help them strategize and think through what are the options let's go to someone and , you know, thinking about the great resignation, do I leave my job? If so, what implications will that have? You know, and, and helping them think through not only the pros and cons, but the consequ as well , what's the impact now, what's the, what's the cost of doing it or the cost of not doing it, not doing it. Right. Right. And that's, I , I think it's, you know, we are often the shadow side in, in many of our coaching relationships, being the other voice or helping our clients see other perspectives, plural around issues. And I think are many coaches today, whether we're coaching parents, we're coaching leaders, we're coaching business owners or other, we are really helping our clients widen their focus on what's possible, and what's gonna be the best pathway for them back to, you know, my own body of work, remote pathways. There's a lot of options. There's a lot of things we could be. But when we partner with our clients, how are we helping them sift through what may feel very, very diffuse. And, you know, that's where conversations over time, these trusted relationships really make significant, significant difference in our client's lives.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, totally. I think one of the key things that I'm hearing from this part of the conversation is that , that they, we have their , they have our ear and isn't that really? What active listening, what are we listening for? How can we be of service? So it doesn't matter what title you put on the issue, whether it's the current ones, or it can be the old ones, right. I'm dealing with not dealing with, sorry, I'm working with a client right now. Who's processing through grief of losing two parents within two months.

Speaker 2:

Oh, wow.

Speaker 1:

Right . Mm-Hmm <affirmative> so, you know, being a listening ear, I , I did, most of the time was just listen. Yes . And as he, I, I was the , the only place where he could fully UN fully objectively be heard about what he was going through and it's, you know, and , and it's funny, I hear so many people say, well, I don't talk about spirituality with my executive clients, cuz they're just da , da , da , da . And I'm like, if you are open to it, they all have hearts. They all have some sort of human beings. So sorry.

Speaker 2:

We're all human beings. Right? Exactly . It doesn't matter what we all have emotion. We all have yearning. We all have grief. And I think even in the most hardnosed business conversation where, you know, issues of the world, hang in balance sometimes in the work that we do people are, people are, people doesn't matter who they

Speaker 1:

Are . It goes back to one of my other favorite things I say. And it's like, so, you know, well, I I'm a business coach or I'm a, this coach. And then I'm like in the end, you're coaching a person. So you're kind of a life coach. So what goes around, comes around. Right. But marketing is a whole different issue, which you know, tons about. We could go on about that forever, but we've just touched on something I want to hear more for , from you. We've touched a bit about change. Why is coaching more important now than ever?

Speaker 2:

Great question. Well , you've given a good example of like one on one conversations. How are we holding the space for people to explore, to process, to just be with anything thinking and emotion in my world as a group coach, it's all about connection. Right? Right now in this moment in time, it's about reconnecting people and helping people really start to realize that, you know, they're not alone, right? So many people throughout the pandemic felt that they were in their own island. And so now it's like, okay, I'm not alone. I've had an experience, but what's possible now. And that, you know, rebuilding of community, I think is a , a real excitement factor for group coaching for team coaching. Cuz I know many team coaches will also listen to this episode. It's important that we recognize that teams are now resetting. So what will this next chapter look like for teams? And I have a lot of teams that have come outta the woodwork in these last couple of months, you know what we wanna do a complete reset. How do we figure out and re like, don't even go back to what we were doing cuz you know what, we're not gonna be going back to what we've done. Mm-Hmm <affirmative> so how do we now think about what's possible and that's really exciting work. So again, who else is available to sort of be the thinking partner, the adventure partner sometimes in , oh,

Speaker 1:

I like that.

Speaker 2:

Yeah. And I think there's an opportunity and this goes, this takes me back to my roots in sort of what used to be called adventure based training. Right. I spent many years working throughout the jungles of central and south America. Right. And, and as an experiential educator in those days, very much take using will wilderness using nature as the backdrop to how do we find our limits? How do we surpass our limits? And I think that some of the lessons of the last two years has been whether we've lost loved ones or whether we've had to pivot in our careers, it's really brought people into the core of who they are and who they want to be. And so I think as things, you know, this next chapter, it's about exploring what's possible, but sometimes blowing past the, the barriers we either are put on ourselves that the barriers that have been imposed societally. And so that's exciting. And, and like when you do step into a whole new possibility, we know people need support and that's where a coach can help. They can be there. They can help you identify the inner critics and the gremlins and the tours that show up and, and be there to sort of be that voice of like, you got this it's okay. You really have this. And it probably won't turn out the way you think it will.

Speaker 1:

<Laugh>

Speaker 2:

Have fun. That's the adventure burn . Let's have fun as we do it.

Speaker 1:

<Laugh> if we learned anything from this pandemic, it didn't turn out the way we thought and it's not . Oh, crazy. Crazy. Well, thank you. Thank you for those ideas. I want to this is a bit bigger of a question now that I want to ask you, but you've been, you and I both been around this for a long time and I do wanna reference the article. You know, what do you want to create the space for during your life cycle as a coach? And we talked about this earlier, right? Where do you want to see yourself? And you know, maybe some people are considering team, group coaching. They're not, they're not used to hybrid. Maybe they want to go do one on one face to face , you know, so there's that sort of thing. But I want to take it to a bigger space. What let's use your own wording? What do you want to create the space for ring in , sorry, in the next five to 10 years in the coaching profession.

Speaker 2:

Ooh , I love it. When people ask me using my own words, <laugh>,

Speaker 1:

<Laugh> throw them back .

Speaker 2:

I personally, Jennifer Bri wanna create, this is a , this is a dangerous question.

Speaker 1:

What do you wanna ,

Speaker 2:

I like to think of it as collaboratively, you know, what do we, as a profession wanna create? Right. And you know, I think, I think we have always been on a leading edge if we look at where we were in the , you know, the last 10 years of like virtual working and, and just, you know, like being open to new trends and opportunities, I would hope five to 10 years. We're still like, you know, a profession that is really at the, at the forefront of, and embracing it and thinking about how do we, how do we merge things? You know, I see in my own personal work, it's a lot of alchemy. It's a lot of like, how do we blend things together? Because the skills of yesterday are certainly not the skills needed today. You know, I remember being that younger business faculty member and teaching a course for my student in business and it was called like student success or something. And I said like, imagine, imagine when you're at, like, this was like 2004. So imagine 2015 now imagine 20, 25 . Well , we're almost at 2025. And as I often used to say, you know, we've always gotta be ongo , engaging in ongoing learning. And I think you and I were both always learning. I know I am. And that, that really helps to see what are these bridges, right? How do we bridge older practices and best practices it , we can carry them forward in a context that is ever changing. And I think last time I was here on the pod podcast with you, I shared like, one thing that I'm fascinated by is that as much as the world around us changes, coaching is coaching is coaching. It hasn't changed as a practice. The context has changed. The conversations do change, but the skills remain the same <affirmative> and in the advent of, you know, the new team coaching competencies in the revision and review of the, you know, the new ICF competency model. Yeah . What coaches we're doing in mid nineties is what we're still doing today in almost the mid 2000 and twenties. So I think five to 10 years from now, I think we'll see. I hope we'll see. I , I know we'll see you know, coaches on a forefront of really like the issues of the world and we're, we're getting back to environmental sustainability issues. I was, of course, as a young grad student, I have a master's in environmental studies. It's really interesting for me to see that cyclical nature moving from 1993, teaching at York, univers , your York university and climate change and being considered radical in those days to where we are now. And like, we have a lot of work left to do, right. And, and we all, all of our voices are needed at the table, whether we're a coach, whether we're supporting people who are, are at the table, or we are, you know, holding the space for people to think about how do I affect change in my family, my business, my community. So I think certainly next five to 10 years, I'll be at the table. I look forward to whatever way, you know, I know it'll be individual group and team and, and there'll be a lot of, I think, fun, fun things emerging in this next.

Speaker 1:

Yeah , I think so too. And a couple of things that you mentioned earlier too, is, is a lot of people are afraid of some of the things that are coming up, like coaching platforms and AI, and for me, and as a result of what we're talking about today, I'd like to see that we're embracing that and taking it on as opposed to having it thrust upon us.

Speaker 2:

Yeah .

Speaker 1:

Playing an active role. And how does AI work with coaching best versus, you know, oh, you know, I don't want to know about this. It's wrong. It's bad, you know, whatever, right. Yeah. Yeah.

Speaker 2:

Well, it's sort of like where group coaching was in 2004, 2005, as I stepped into this profession. And as a young coach, I was told, oh, you can't coach groups. Like that's not coaching. And I was like, no, I think we really could create something where it is coaching. I am a facilitator, but now I'm a coach. I wanna do something here. So I think we are in a profession where there is space for us to innovate. There is space to actually influence a lot of things and you know, yeah. Why not be at the edge rather than be a follower.

Speaker 1:

Yeah. And what a great phrase I'm gonna carry this, if you don't mind is what are we saying? We can't do right now? Like what , what are we applying can't to ? You said, can't do group coaching, you know, can't work not so what are we saying? Can't to now that's a tongue twister in itself, but that's a , a great way to look at it. Yeah.

Speaker 2:

It's bit of a Renegade version. Right. And again, I think as , as coaches and this goes back to like building a business, right. To build a business, takes a lot of bravery to build a business. <Laugh> takes a lot of vision to build a business over time, takes a lot of like belief. And so if we're not asking ourselves, why can't I, then I think sometimes we might not have looked at the issues from all the necessary sides because when you step out as a business and you are doing something different as I was, when I first met you really, you know, talking about group coaching, a lot of people looked at me like really, really? Like, what is she doing? Like, is she really like, is she really serious? But we really look at where the profession has gone and we need people who are on the advance sort of, you know, bringing people along and, and creating a , a different future. Cause a lot is possible if we allow ourselves to think of .

Speaker 1:

Yeah. So there's another thing what's possible, right? Yeah . Not just what's there. What's possible. One of the things that I have in my mind is it's like bill gates thing was bill gates said com computer on every desk. And now not only do we have a computer in every hand, some people have two of them, one for work, one for business, and it's called a smartphone.

Speaker 2:

Yeah. Or a smart watch right. On our wrist.

Speaker 1:

Oh, I know on top of it. Yeah. Ex I totally forgot. And my Fitbit, but not quite the same. But it's still got computer in it. Everyone has a coach. Everyone has access to, and the opportunity to work with a coach is one of my philosophies. So how do we make that happen?

Speaker 2:

Yeah. And, you know, alongside you, as I stepped into this profession only 18 years ago, stepping out of the world of working on the ground, you know, with communities in the world, part of my vision was how do we, you know, I know we're calling it now, democratize coaching, but that was my vision of this business to create a ripple effect and to bring coaching to people who had no access and the world, the technology is there. Now I find it still so amazing. And, and people have heard my story and the Ted talk, you know, like it , we would take me five days of travel to reach communities that I'd worked with and lived with for years in the north end of the Amazon, I can get on Facebook. They're connected solar panels, <laugh> Conversations. It's like, and that's, that's the world today. So how do we, you know, we have the technology to make it happen. So how are you as a coach using your skills, if that's what interests you, because everyone wants to grow. Everyone wants to change. Doesn't matter where we are in the world. And so, you know, how do we use our gifts as a coach?

Speaker 1:

Well, Jennifer, for, I think you inadvertently answered my last , last question, which is, what else would you like our audience to take from this article and conversation? So you just answered that question.

Speaker 2:

Well, there we go. Thank you for wrapping it up for me, Gary .

Speaker 1:

Oh, no problem. And for the for those of you who are listening to the recording, please know that the article is available along with the recording. And I'll point you to some more reflections from Jennifer at the end of the article from what we were saying , what do you want to , what do you want to create the space for during your life cycle , as a coach, what's important to support you in your continued growth. And there's some questions to consider regarding what's required of us as, so there's a place to start right there and remember to eat the apple one bite at a time. And <laugh> just look at here's. Another place to look is what is it? Your clients are needing from you, right? There's another place. So , and I think you were referred to that in here as well with talk about all of the areas of, of what's going on. Oh my goodness. I , as we always know, Jennifer, we can go on forever. Unfortunately, <laugh> crap . So

Speaker 2:

Wanna thank you, Gary . And I have to say, I hope our listeners have, or your listeners have enjoyed our conversation as much as I have. It's it , even though it's you know, short end as a Crow flies, I never get to see, <laugh> never get to see you that often. So I hope as the world reopens that , you know, our paths physically will cross as it will with many of the listeners, cuz I know whenever I get to a conference, one of the first booths I know is gonna be there. It's gonna be Gary and choice da . So support, I great magazine. It was one of the first purchases I made through this business and I was like , I wanna be a subscriber. And I have them sitting up, up in my, one of my many bookshelves. <Laugh> I probably won't move on the next move with me, but no, your , your magazines will so definitely subscribe and thank you for having me as the first , second guest .

Speaker 1:

First, second guest . I love it. <Laugh> thank you so much for joining us for this beyond the page episode. What's the best way for people to reach you?

Speaker 2:

Yeah, well group coaching, essentials.ca and you can find out what's on the go with ICS, C, C E approved programming. You will also find us on the airwaves under the remote pathways podcast. We talk a lot about the hybrid highway. It's no longer a pathway. It's a hybrid highway to sort of show the speed and yeah, you will find me, you know, you will find me online most days. So with that, thanks everyone. And be

Speaker 1:

Well, oh, I'll, I'll offer a little suggestion. If it gets too fast, call it a freeway. There's a highway can still have stops.

Speaker 2:

I know, but , but I think it's important. We stop and pause . I

Speaker 1:

<Laugh> well there's those little places . Take a rest . You know, I know. Well, that's it. This episode of beyond the page for more episodes, subscribe via your favorite podcast app. And don't forget to sign up for your free digital issue of choice magazine. If you're not yet a subscriber by going to choice online.com and clicking the signup now button I'm Garry Schleifer , enjoy the journey to mastery.