choice Magazine

Beyond the Page ~ Coach the Cure, Not the Symptoms

August 23, 2022 Garry Schleifer
choice Magazine
Beyond the Page ~ Coach the Cure, Not the Symptoms
Show Notes Transcript

In this interview, we talk with Alice Ackerman and Peter Demarest about Alice's article entitled "Coach the Cure, Not the Symptoms. A physician's perspective on assessments and a paradigm-shifting science for coaching."

Dr. Alice Ackerman is an Executive and Leadership Coach focused on individuals in healthcare settings as well as individuals undergoing transitions in their personal or professional life. She brings over three decades of experience in healthcare leadership and teaching in academic environments, as well as her vast clinical experience as a pediatric intensivist, to her current work. Alice is a staunch advocate of the role of women in organizational leadership.

Peter Demarest is the co-founder of Axiogenics, LLC, the leading developers of the science of neuro-axiology, the  VQ Profile Assessment system, and related coaching and training systems, methods,  materials. Axiogenics trains, certifies, and supports practitioners worldwide in use of Axiogenics’ game-changing technology.

As a pediatric physician who joined the coaching world, Alice found herself dealing with many of the same frustrating challenges coaching clients as she did with her medical patients.  She found her patients and their parents had no effective way to communicate what was bothering them but she had numerous diagnostic tools to help diagnose the underlying cause and offer a treatment plan. 

As a coach, she found the assessments she was introduced to in her training were inadequate and missing something important.  They lacked was objective, reliable, and actionable data regarding the causes and a potential "cure" for whatever "dis-ease" the client was experiencing which was why they sought coaching help.

Join us as we discuss how Alice sought out a "better way" and found neuro-axiology through Axiogenics, LLC and Peter Demarest.

Watch the full interview by clicking here.

Find the full article here: https://bit.ly/BtP_Ackerman

Free gift to listeners: Take the Axiogenics V/Q assessment for yourself and experience an hour of free coaching with Dr. Alice Ackerman based on your initial results: https://www.vqprofile.com/coachingada

Grab your free issue of choice Magazine here - https://choice-online.com/
In this episode, I talk with Alice and Peter about Alice's article published in our June 2022  issue.

Speaker 1:

Hello everyone. I'm Garry Schleifer . And this is Beyond the Page, brought to you by choice the magazine of professional coaching and the premier magazine and ultimate resource for professional coaches. choice is more than a magazine. It's a community of people who use and share coaching tools, tips, and techniques to add value to their businesses and impact their clients. It's an institution of learning built over, believe it or not folks, 20 years, 20 years of publication dedicated to improving the lives of coaches and their clients. In today's episode, I'm speaking with the executive and leadership coach, Dr. Alice Ackerman, author of our feature article in the June issue Coach the cure, Not the Symptoms stay tuned. Joining her today is Peter Demarest, who not only inspired Alice to write this article, but also provided her with helpful advice and comments regarding the article. Dr. Alice Ackerman is an executive and leadership coach focused on individuals in healthcare settings from the health background, of course, being a doctor as well as individuals undergoing transitions in their personal or professional life. She brings over three decades of experience in healthcare leadership and teaching in academic environments, as well as her vast clinical experience as a pediatric intensivist, you'll have to explain that one to us, to her current work, a mother of three, oh, also grandmother of three and wife, hopefully to one to another medical professional. Oh my goodness. Two doctors in the house. Alice two doctors in the house and she's got COVID lovely. Alice has lived many of the personal professional issues faced by her clients. Yes. Stick with t he COVID story. She's a staunch advocate of the role of women in organizational leadership. Thank you. After nearly 10 years, as a founding chair of the department of pediatrics at a new medical school, which she helped found, she left organized medicine to coach full t ime. How you found time to do that, I don't know. She uses the science of neuro-axiology to inform her coaching and help guide her clients to living their best lives and doing their best work. Peter is the co-founder of Axiogenic LLC, the leading developers of the science of neuro-axiology, the VQ profile assessment system and related coaching and training systems methods and materials. Axiogenics trains, certifies, and supports practitioners worldwide in the use of Axiogenics game changing technology. Peter's also the co-author of the book Answering the Central Question, which Alice wrote in this article , which introduced the science to the world in 2010, a popular speaker in the fields of coaching, organizational leadership and development. He was a top WBECS presenter that's Worldwide Business Executive Coaching summit in 2020 in returns to WBECS again as a presenter in October, 2022. I'll be watching Peter. Peter and his wife, Pam live near Philadelphia, Pennsylvania, a nd addition to his Axiogenics work and being with family, friends, and pets enjoys playing drums in a local band, cooking, traveling, beekeeping, scuba diving, and DIY projects like woodworking and some home remodeling. Wow. What pair y ou t wo are, honestly. Welcome Alice and Peter. Thank you so much for joining me today. Oh my g o odness. Th anks. Sc ary. Yeah. Ho w, how do you have time to do these little things? Okay. Like two doctors in the house, three kids, three beekeeping. Okay. How you ended up with that? We ll, feel free to jump in wi th t h at. An y t ime. Your coach probably got that out of you, right? Using the Axiogenic system.

Speaker 2:

Right. No, that, that actually dates back to childhood where a neighbor was moving away and gave me a honey bee hive . And I kept that for many years until I went off to my life. And then I was watching Shark Tank and they had somebody on there that had a beekeeping equipment company and it kind of reminded me of it. And I realized, you know, I hadn't seen any honeybees in a really long time out in the yard or running flowers. And I thought, I think I'm gonna look into this again. So I did, you know , thankfully honeybees are really good at taking care of themselves though. So I'm not very time consumed.

Speaker 1:

Well , well, that's good. And, you know, kudos to you too, because that is an , a problem in the world is having enough , especially in urban settings. They're doing that here in Toronto, too. So it's really cool. Well, I, I can't wait to dive into this. First of all, I can't help, but laugh when I read Coach the Cure, Not the Symptoms, because I think of Marcia Reynold's book "Coach the Client". No, "Coach the client, Not the Problem". Yeah . And it was a good riff on that. So really caught my attention and but what I really was blown away by, and I don't know if you can do example of this is that the term valuegenic self leadership. So I hope we're gonna hear more about that in this conversation. It's right in the article for those who are listening. So you can see what the definition is, but I want to go a little bit deeper. And of course the central question, which we'll hear about, and finally, what I really blew me away was because it , it really pertains to me on long term goals. So in the article, you said clients are amazed at how effective this process for them. Even before I was certified in the assessment, in the Axogenic process, a client who had already been coaching with me for six months, took the VQ profile and was finally able to see how her thinking was perpetually inhibiting her desired forward actions. I then took her through the valuegenics self leadership development process, and she quickly accomplished all of her significant and long-term goals. I've got a book of long term goals. Okay. I think I need to be in that system , just saying.

:

Happy to have you

Speaker 1:

Yeah . Yeah. Alice is hireable . I'll bet. No , it truly resonated with me. And, you know, interestingly, we did one on , an issue that had way more of these, and I'm really glad that this one ended up in this issue. Right. So it's like a standalone. It's really, really speaks to how you can do stuff differently and Alice, from your background as both a doctor and a coach. Wow. So I'm gonna stop talking now and just say like, so why did you write this piece?

Speaker 3:

Well, one of the reasons I wrote it, well, I was reading one of my choice of , you know, editions and looked down at the little blurb that said, do you wanna write for us or something like that, right. Submitted an article. And I looked at what was coming up. And I thought, well, yeah, of course I wanna write an article about this. It's been so life changing for me and for so many of my clients and it's time that the rest of the coaching world gets to know about this technology that is so different from most of the other types of assessments that we can do with our clients, because it doesn't depend on t he client making an assessment of themselves. So, you know, most of the assessments ask you questions, and if you're being totally honest, it might be fairly correct. But if you really got a lot of blind spots, you may think you behave or act in a certain way when in fact you don't. And so, as I said in the article, I, I spent a fair amount of time early in my coaching just, just being very unsatisfied with some of the assessments out there. And I'm not trying to say anything negative about any. They can all be , helpful when used appropriately, but I felt like something was missing. And then I went to the WBECs Summit where Peter gave his first , uh, talk there and was enthralled , uh, and signed up and said, take me through this. And it was so amazing to me that these two lists of 18 items each that I was asked to put into an order, what, how can this tell me anything about anything? And then it was me. I mean, when I looked at the results and had some coaching from Peter, I was like, whoa . And I actually saw, I had actually been, I hate to admit this, but let go from one of my jobs. And I was able to look and say, oh, this bias, this is the thing that got me in trouble. Ah , if only I had known, and if only I had had a way to shift my thinking back then, I could have made a choice. And so the whole, at least for me, and I'm happy to have Peter jump because he has obviously been even working with this much longer than I have . But the whole issue to me is that we're, we're teaching our clients or ourselves that at every juncture we have the opportunity to make a choice. And is that choice going to be something that creates value for both ourselves, the people we care about the world around us or is it a choice that we make that's gonna keep us in the same old, same old? Yeah. And, and just being able to manipulate to, to as soon as, you know, that much and then you teach yourself, as I said, in the article, the central question, which is what choice can I make and action can I take in this moment to create the greatest net value? And you can ask, once you're used to it, you can, you can ask that pretty quickly. So, you know, as most of us do before we start a coaching session, we may take some deep breaths. We try to center ourselves and then ask yourself that, that central question, oh yeah, I can make a choice. And then we go from there looking at the , um, at the best ways of thinking that we have, which we call our assets and we have questions that go along with each of those. And by doing that, and by understanding that from a neuroscience standpoint, what you're doing when you ask a question, right, is you're automatically moving your brain and your thought process out of the amygdala and into your prefrontal lobes. U m, and, and you're opening your mind physically opening it to p ossibility and it's m agic. I mean, y eah, many in many cases it is magic. I'll be quiet now and let Peter pick up.

:

Well, before Peter does, I just wanna acknowledge a couple things. So you said this in this , uh, uh, call and also in the article that it really does align up brilliantly with the I , uh, the ICF wealth with coaching, not ICF with the coaching intention of deepening the learning and forward in the action and deepening the learning is meant to be about yourself most of the time, which is the values and then forwarding the action. You have the evidence for that . And I can never tire of you saying the power of choice, because I say it all time, remember you'll always have the power of choice and I don't just mean the magazine. Peter, what can we, what can we let you jump in on , on this part of the conversation?

Speaker 2:

Oh gosh . So , um, you know , it , it is about choice and there's , uh, a number of different directions that could we , we could take this conversation. Referencing , uh, what Alice , so wonderfully talked about always makes me feel good when I hear our , uh, students and , uh, and partners , uh, talking about this. The , um, I guess a little bit of history might be helpful, cuz it'll lead up to the concept of value-genic. It'll lead up to the concept of self leadership and we can put all that together. The assessment instrument itself is something that some people are somewhat familiar with called the Hartman Value Profile, right ? There are lots of other companies that use the assessment instrument, but the reporting is very different than what we use in a VQ profile. One of the reasons for that is , uh, everything that neuroscience has discovered about the brain, what makes the brain tick, what makes us ticked off, how we can tick better and that greatly informed a different perspective on what the Hartman Value Profile is really measuring. But most importantly, what you can do with it, cause a measurement is just a measurement, right? It's what are you gonna do with these measurements? The other thing that came out , uh, in my interpretation of all, all the science is that in many ways, personality is a bit of a red herring. We don't have one personality. We have spectrum, you know? Say, take something like a DISC profile that you might come out to be high D. That doesn't mean you are always domineering for example, or defense, you know, other D words . Yeah . Depends on who you're with. Depends on circumstances and , and the like and we realized that what the Hartman Value Profile now VQ profile is revealing to us is those ways of thinking that cause us to be how we don't want to be. That is not helpful to us that holds us back when they hold us back. In other words, when do those biases become liabilities? Wow , good one . And that's not all the time. Okay. It turns out it's usually in some of the most important moments of our life that our biases become liabilities. Okay . Uh, because there , uh, many years ago realized , uh, in studying axiology value science that , uh, which Dr. Hartman is the father of.

:

That we basically operate as human beings from two perspectives underneath a growth mindset underneath, uh, versus fixed mindset underneath, a n abundance versus scarcity mindset , servant versus authoritative form of leadership is either a mindset that is self-centric. That is it's all about me getting what I want and, uh, and protecting myself at the expense of whatever or a value-genic mindset. In fact, if you remember Maslow's hierarchy of needs, lower end of it is tends to be very self-centric, survival, protection, safety oriented. The top end of it i s much more altruistic and giving and community b ased. U h, i t turns out the brain is just like that also right? By the way, D r. Hartman and D r. Maslow were very close friends. They vacationed every year together. Oh, wow.

Speaker 2:

Fascinating story there. So if we can, at those times, when we actually think value-genically, we tend to bring out the best of who we are as human beings, not just as individuals, but as human beings. And so the term value-genic literally means generate value. To think and operate with the intention and hopefully the skill to make choices that generate greater value because real success in life, in any worthwhile endeavor is about the value you create, not just the value you get. Yeah . Check choice magazine. If choice magazine doesn't create value for its leaders, it won't receive much value in the form of, you know, profit, for example, revenue, right revenue, or the, the satisfaction that you personally receive by being such a voice for an important industry, such as it is . So we have the self-centric versus the value-genic mindset and the Hartman Value Profile/VQ profile, literally measures all the different ways of thinking that are predominantly self-centric in your mind, right ? That is that's how your biases work. And, and they're really just habits of mind, like beliefs or habits of mind. They're not who you are. They're not personality traits. They're just habits. And then A lice talked about cognitive assets. Those are ways of thinking that are your best ways of thinking most value- genic ways of thinking. And, and when you see them, you recognize that's when I'm in my A g ame. That's when I feel good. That's when I h ave the least amount of stress. That's when I'm in the flow the most. And it's my biases when they become liabilities, that just constantly get in my way. So we realized, you k now, you don't h ave to fix the biases. You don't have to fix yourself most approaches with personality and even traditional Hartman Value Profile approaches tend to try to get people to fix what's wrong with them rather than just maximizing what's great.

Speaker 1:

Yeah . Okay . Well, and Alice said that too, rather than focusing on the weaknesses. Yeah . Right . And so that, or in alignment with what you're saying. Yeah.

Speaker 2:

It's also not the same thing as Strengths Finder. Right . Right.

Speaker 1:

I guess

Speaker 2:

Strengths Finder is great. But Strengths Finder tends to try to tell people, just do the things that you're really good at. I don't know about you, but I don't get to only do things that I'm really good at.

Speaker 1:

Oh, you're not , you're not self-employedwith a team . Self -employed with team , with a team behind you that does all the things that you don't wanna do .

Speaker 2:

Exactly . So the question is, how do I bring my best thinking? To bring my best self to the things, even if I am not really good at 'em yeah . It turns out our assets can help us be a lot better at things. We don't think we're good at cuz we have a bias that says we don't think we're good at it. Right.

Speaker 1:

Yeah.

Speaker 2:

And, and we have the ability to learn and to grow. And we can have confidence that even if I make a mistake, I can recover from it doesn't mean I'm not good enough. It just means I have a skill to develop still. Right .

Speaker 1:

Okay . So I have to ask in your experience , the two of you, which what's the one that comes up the most?

Speaker 2:

As asset

Speaker 1:

Value , we're talking about non strengths assets value. So what, what's the most common? Asset or the most common bias? What do you no. Most common let's go. Oh, I like that most common asset. Give us an example,

Speaker 2:

Statistically, it's something called valuing yourself right now . There are multiple measures that relate to self-esteem types issues and valuing yourself is only one of them. And it is a perspective that is about , uh, more about your ability to , uh, move beyond the past. That is to not fall victim, to , uh, your , your choices and actions in the past and feel like, you know , uh, because I did that, you know, like personally, when I was 12 years old, I shoplift a carton of cigarettes. This is like 1968 or so and my parents caught me and, but technically I'm a thief, you know, I'm a criminal. My parents caught me long story short. Um, I ended up many years later going back in paying the store owner for the cart of cigarettes

Speaker 1:

At a higher price.

Speaker 2:

It was a small local, you know, local market. Anyway, I could have let the guilt and shame that I stole influence the rest of my life instead choice. It becomes a story of learning and growth and, and moving beyond. Right. So it's about being able to , to move past your mistakes, to know that you have the ability to learn and to grow and become better. Uh , and it's one of the measures whereby we can recognize our infinite intrinsic value as a human being. Unfortunately, one of the most common biases.

Speaker 1:

Hold on. No, hold on. We were gonna give that one to Alice. Nice try buddy. Well , let's see. Okay . So, so hold on, Peter, let's see if she gets the right one. Alice what's the most common bias?

Speaker 2:

Okay.

Speaker 3:

Well, in my experience, and I believe in the experience of most people, most of the other Axiogenic coaches I've talked to, and I think Peter agrees with this. Uh , I don't have all the stats behind me , uh, is a , um, uh, a , an attribute called being at peace. And when one has that as a bias that can lead, I mean, in, in sort of typical parlance, we, we would maybe call that a tendency toward perfectionism

Speaker 1:

It's. Thank you. Because when you said being at peace, I'm like, that sounds like a , that sounds like

Speaker 3:

Most people tell me there's nothing wrong with being at peace. But if you owe your value , so if you have

Speaker 1:

That , you

Speaker 3:

Can have that you can have being at peace as an asset, in which case you've got a good balance. between, um, striving to make things really great, and accepting when things may not be able to be that way. So y ou're, y ou're, y ou're, you're copacetic with it. You're you're okay. But if you overvalue this, then you tend to see things in a very narrow way of it's, you know, my way or the highway. This, this isn't quite, quite good enough. In order for me to be at peace, I've gotta be sure that everything is super duper, super duper. And, and that's one of the ones I had early on, um, that, that I know used to drive me, uh, in pretty much everything I did, uh, was really having to be super

Speaker 1:

And well, and, and then being in the medical profession that probably fed that well. Yeah. Right . Because , and in some cases, if you're perfect, people will possibly die. Right?

Speaker 3:

Right. Right. Yeah . And , and , and , and in some cases, the point is it's not always a bad thing. And as Peter said earlier, it only becomes a liability when it's, it's kind of coming into your thinking at a time when it's not helpful. Yeah. So, yeah, it's great for me to be very attentive to detail. And it's great for me to do the best job I can possibly do. You said you didn't know what a pediatric intensivist was, but that's a person who takes care of not the itty bitty babies in the neonatal ICU, but the, the children from after they've gone home as an infant, all the way up to the 17 or 19 year old football player , uh, and, and, you know, who might be ill or injured and, and , um, at risk of something not so good happening to them. Yeah . Um , and, and so surely there were times when that attribute was very helpful to me. Yeah . Uh , but there were also times when it became a liability, because, you know, at some point you need to say that it's good enough. Right? Uh , and, and, you know, that's when asking that the central question helps, you know, what choice can I make and action can I take in this moment and then introducing other questions to yourself of, well , where is that value gonna come from? You know, and, and so what we teach people is then to substitute your asset. So not living in my bias at that point, I can use one of my assets is empowering others. And I usually then turn back and ask myself some centering questions from that asset that helped me think about the other person, what would the other person want right now, what would be, what would be in their best interest? Well, if I stand at this bedside for an hour, trying to figure out exactly the best possible medicine to use. Under this, my patient might die in the meantime,

Speaker 1:

So I've g otta switch and I've gotta say, what is the best decision I can make right now, right now. Yeah. And I find that using Axiogenics in my daily life, and I'm no longer standing at bedside doing that because I'm happily retired from medicine and, a nd blissfully practicing coaching. U m, and by the way, Marcia Reynolds was one of my early mentors, so oh, w ow. U h, yeah, That's great.

Speaker 3:

Yeah . She taught me my, my basic, all of my intrinsic coaching skills. Um, uh, yeah. So, you know, it's, it's just so helpful to be able to see, yeah I developed this bias for good reasons. Right. I was trying to be the best. I, yeah. Sometimes that's really counterproductive to providing the best, the highest amount of value to my environment, to the people with me. Now, you know, to my husband or my kids or my grandkids or the people I coach.

Speaker 1:

Right. Oh, I , and I , and I had to laugh because we've just moved and being at peace with where things go will make more things go somewhere than holding it all up to say, Nope , I won't. No , not unless it's three more inches to the left and stomp my little feet or my husband will or whatever. So no, I really get that. Um, I do have a , a , just a , a strange question, but how many Axiogenic coaches are there in the world? ,

Speaker 2:

Great question. Um, there are, oh , about , uh, 40 , um, you know , some much more active than others, currently depending on where they are. You know, some of them , um, are not even full-time coaches so, okay . It's only about 40. We've never really advertised. That June issue was the first advertisement we've ever done well/.

:

And we're doing t he, a nd the article with A lice supports the, t he, t he, t he reasoning. Why, and, um,

Speaker 2:

And can I , can I jump back just, just for a second , uh, two points. One is going all the way back to valuing yourself. What's interesting, however, is that just because valuing yourself is the number one most common asset, the vast majority of people have significant , um, self-esteem challenges. Okay . Um, but that's an asset that helps people recover from, or move beyond those self-esteem challenges in real time and in, in the moment. So I don't wanna suggest that everybody's running around feeling great about themselves, cuz they're not in fact.

Speaker 1:

Well, I was actually expecting something more along the lines of the asset that relates to lack of self confidence . And I think that's the one you just hit on right there.

Speaker 2:

Right. And , and back at the 2020 at the WBECs, the second full session that I did, we assessed 750 coaches. And I did a live introductory coaching session with all 750 people at one time . Alice was one of them actually. And , uh, but I did a statistical analysis on all 750 of them to see patterns. Keep in mind these are all coaches. Here's one of the interesting statistics. One is that about 76% of them had significant challenges with self-esteem and they also had significant challenges in what we call an overvaluation desire to make a difference.

Speaker 1:

Oh, there's no surprise.

Speaker 2:

Well , no, but here's the thing that's really interesting is the reason for that is making a difference, became the way that they will self-identify and feel good about themselves. The challenge is it's never enough. They can never, and they often will try too hard to make a difference. The extension of that also is a lot of people struggle with selling themselves right in the coaching world. How do I sell myself as a coach? Right? The problem is you're trying to sell yourself and you don't value yourself sufficiently from a totality of your self esteem. So, right . Yeah. It's a little hard to sell something that you don't value sufficiently

Speaker 1:

That's true.

Speaker 2:

One of the things that Axiogenics brings to the table is a system. You sell a system rather than trying to sell yourself. Being at peace. The other comment that I wanted to make about that is that's also the seat of passion. Okay . It's where passion comes from, cuz it's a forward looking , this is who I want to be, this is what I want to , uh, bring to the world, achieve to the world. But it , as Alice said, it's a very narrow focus and anything that isn't the way we think it needs to be for us to be the way we wanna be is a loss of peace. Yeah .

Speaker 1:

Right. Wow. Thank you for , so

Speaker 2:

You don't wanna fix that because you don't wanna give up on

Speaker 1:

Your passion. Oh gosh. No.

Speaker 2:

Right. But you do wanna recognize when does your passion get in the way of the fulfillment of that passion?

Speaker 1:

That's yeah, yeah , yeah . Well said, thank you. Yeah . Well I have a couple more questions such as so, and I think you've answered this in the article and in this conversation, but why should I spend, as a coach, why should I spend time learning another assessment? And what I've heard is that, and it surprises me how few coaches have taken this up. So we need to get the word out and I'll ask you that one in a minute. Um , but I just don't any other reasons other than what you said, why this is, this seems to like be the cream of the crop of assessments to me . Yes . Like , and I don't even like calling it an assessment . Right . Cause it doesn't, it gets doesn't sound like it's assessing me. It sounds like it's something that's revealing to me and empowering me.

Speaker 3:

Yes. Well, and it's empowering, assuming you're working with a trained coach, right? I mean, I could, if I just gave you the results, all right, and you read through all this stuff, you're gonna go, oh my goodness. Look at all these things that are wrong with me. I mean, that's most people's right. So you have to combine it with , uh, a process by which , uh, the individual, the client learns what it means, starts developing thought patterns that can be substituted automatically mm-hmm <affirmative> or almost automatically. So that all it takes, you know, at first as with any new technology that you learn, you have to actively think about it, you know, but the, the , the fourth or fifth or sixth time that you drive to your kid's school, you're not thinking actively about it, am I turning left or right. You just go. Yeah. And so when you practice this enough , um, it becomes something that you can trigger auto , you know, almost automatically. You take that. What I teach my clients doesn't matter what bias is coming up, but you will know when a bias is turning itself into a liability, right ? Because you feel it and everybody feels it a little differently. I tend to feel it in my chest. Some people feel it in their jaw. You know, you just get a little tight and if you can train yourself to notice that, and then you train yourself to be able to take that pause, ask the question, the central question, ask the pertinent questions from your, or the questions from your pertinent asset that you wanna invoke then you , you just do it. And, and before long you find that instead of 90% of the time, you're just in this thing where you're just acting and reacting to things that you're not thinking of. You have more intention with how you are conducting yourself. And we have ways that we teach people, you know? Okay. I'm about to go into a meeting where I'm gonna ask for raise from my boss. I know right now that I've learned something about my bias. I know what biases are gonna come up and, a nd, a nd bite me if I'm not careful so I can prepare for this as an individual. Now th at I , I have these tools at m y, my disposal, I can fill out my worksheet or I can do it in my head. I know what bias is gonna be problematic. And I know what asset I wa nna u se instead and if I can then turn it on right at the moment that I need it. It's natural. Ye ah. Be cause y our as set i s something that is much more natural to you, although sometimes you don't use it. Yeah . Uh , and so just learning how to let it, it's kind of like, it's been bottled up and you're letting it free and you're letting it replace whatever bias was gonna be in your way. And you do it. And , and I, as I think I wrote in the article, I mean, I , I would love it if every coach, you know, we're able to use this because I think it helps us go deep with our clients much faster , um, and really be able to give them something they can take with them . Right. Uh , and it's, it's kind of like a parting gift, you know? Okay. You sign up to work with me for six months or a year, whatever it is <laugh> . But, but now I'm gonna give you something that is lifelong . And although I might be putting myself out of business and not getting repeat business, you know , I leave it for open and they call me and they say, you know, I I've had clients call me now a year after finishing, working with me, but they call me up and say, you know, I had this thing that just came up and I knew that I could use my Axgiogenics and I, I used it and I used this asset, whereas I used to use those assets and it was great. And I have to thank you. Okay. I didn't do anything, but you're making

Speaker 2:

A difference.

Speaker 3:

I empowered you. Right. Yeah . And that's, what's so important. I think they're empowered. They move forward. They really feel , um, like they've, they've got the power to make the changes.

Speaker 2:

They have the power of choice. Exactly. As Alice said, you know, it it's , um, there is an assessment, the assessment is the tool, but it's not the product. Yeah. The product is people unleashing their A game and , uh, becoming their best. So what we provide, not only do we train people in the assessment, there is an entire training set of materials online that is included at no extra charge, along with the assessment report for the clients to access, a whole eLearning system. And , uh, we don't currently charge for that. We're looking at developing some smartphone apps that there may be a nominal monthly, just like there is for any iPhone app, for example. But , um, uh, so the it's really what you do with it. And, and Alice, like all of our coaches are highly trained, tested, and certified in not only the use of the assessment, but the entire pedagogy, if you will. Yeah . The methodology and it's as much training, frankly, as it is coaching, it's training with coaching skills or coaching with a training element. And that's , uh, a really important piece of it cuz we're teaching people to be value-genic self leaders . Right.

Speaker 1:

Yeah. Awesome.

Speaker 2:

So it's really important to note that, that , uh, this isn't something you sign up because you wanna get certified in the assessment, you sign up because you want to deliver a solution.

Speaker 1:

Right.

Speaker 2:

Right. And the assessment diagnosis , the cause and the cure. Hmm .

Speaker 1:

There we go. That's perfect.

:

You still have to know , know how to use the cure. Right.

Speaker 1:

Wow .

Speaker 3:

Don't know how to use that . And what's lovely about this is that as a coach, I don't have to spend, I don't actually spend a lot of time doing the, the teaching of my client . They get a lot of that or most of it from the website.

Speaker 1:

Right.

Speaker 3:

But they come to me so that they can make sure they're applying what they've learned and we use real life situations and they're able to identify, you know , well, I tried this and it didn't quite work. Okay. Let's take a step back. What were you thinking? What were your emotions? You know, all of the kind of typical coaching questions you would ask about something that someone's, you know, going through and, and then they just, you know, they see it right. Once they've had some of the basics and you're asking appropriate questions, they can say, oh yeah, I see. I actually let this, some of them call it a blind spot, you know, it's , it's a bias. I , I let this get in my way. I should have gone one step back. Yeah . And actually thought about it this way. So it's, it's encouraging individuals to do this thought process on their own.

Speaker 1:

Yeah .

Speaker 3:

And us as coaches and, and , and not, I'm not a teacher when I'm with them, but I'm helping to use what they're learning.

Speaker 1:

Of course there has to be a bit of education in how to use the tool . I agree. Yeah . Yeah . Um , I have almost gotta go. I love it. First of all, I always like to ask, what would you like our readers and listeners to do with this wisdom? Are there any opportunities you said there's training, can person try it? What would you like them to do?

Speaker 3:

Well, I would love it. Uh , if folks are interested in taking the assessment and having an initial , uh, hour of coaching based on the assessment , um, they can go to my link that , uh, will do, you know, will allow them to do that.

Speaker 1:

Okay . Well , why don't you just mention the link now?

Speaker 3:

Sure. It's uh, uh, www.vqprofile.com/ coachingada

Speaker 1:

Got it.

:

So VQprofile.com/coachingADA and ADA is my initials,

Speaker 1:

You know , and that would be the best way for them to contact

Speaker 3:

Me . That would be the best way. And they can, right after they do the assessment, they can sign up for a session with me. All of that is free. Um, the rule we have for people who want to become Axiogenic coaches is they actually have to have gone through , uh, the process of being coached through the process first.

Speaker 1:

Yeah , really ? So, yeah . Awesome. Thank you. Anything you'd like to add Peter before we close ,

Speaker 2:

Um, as something to put, to work in their life to start with , write down the central question. What choice can I make? And action . Can I take in this moment to create the greatest net value net value, meaning all things concerned, considered pros and cons, both short and long term for all people , uh, that will help you to shift to a more value mindset. And if you just start asking yourself that question in your professional life and in your personal life , uh, in your private life, when you're in the, you know, in any situation, it will start to make a difference for you. So that's the first thing , uh, that, that I'd recommend. And , and as far as coaches are concerned, get in touch with Alice, get an experience of this process, or you pass any judgment. It is very different.

Speaker 1:

I don't think it's gonna be any judgment. Sounds brilliant. I'm I'm astounded that we haven't gotten the word. And I say us because I'm also in the industry, that we haven't connected like this before. Now we have let's, you know, let's see what we can do to get this out in this, out in the world. It just resonates with me. So thank you both. Thank you , uh, for coming on today. Um, again, VQprofile.com/coachingADA.

:

I almost had it all. All right . Well, thank you so much. Thank you for joining us for this beyond the page episode. Um, that's it we're for more episodes, you can subscribe via your favorite podcast app. Um, we're on Apple's Spotify on our website, and don't forget to sign up for your free digital issue of choice magazine by going to choice-online.com and clicking the signup now button, thanks to both of you for today for sharing your wisdom. Alice and Peter. Alice for having us writing the article well done. Don't make it your last time

Speaker 2:

For sure.

Speaker 1:

I'm Garry Schleifer . Enjoy your journey to mastery.