Beyond the Page ~ Get off to a Great Start...and Achieve Great Results!

In this interview, we talk with Veronica Munro about her article, Get off to a Great Start...and Achieve Great Results!

The first steps we take at the beginning of our coaching are so very impactful, as we are engaging not just with the person in front of us, but with multiple hidden layers of the person inside; a person who wants to receive validation, hope and support.

A successful starting point for the coaching is to begin with the process of positive engagement with the coachee and their stakeholders that provides specific feedback and measures of success for the coaching engagement from the outset.

Veronica is an International Executive and Leadership Coach and Strategic Facilitator with over 25 years' experience coaching specifically CEOs, C-suite executives and their teams in over 30 countries within Africa, Asia, Middle East, Pakistan, Europe, and North America. Her strengths include her exceptional ability to work closely with leaders, leveraging their talents and facilitating sustainable behavioural change that supports them to achieve greater levels of business performance as well as personal success and alignment. 

Veronica has a strong business background working as a senior leader herself within global organisations for a number of years.  Her talents as a coach include being relationship-led, strengths based, strategic and having a pragmatic approach. She is well known for her ‘transformative’ approach.

Join us as we learn more from Veronica about how to help our coaching clients increase their self-awareness and encourage them to motivate their own changes

Watch the full interview by clicking here.

Find the full article here: https://bit.ly/btp_Munro

Veronica has provided an invitation to a demonstration of ‘WAYS OF BEING’ (via ZOOM) on October 5th from 3-4:30 BST and October 6th from 10-11:30 am BST.   Listeners are invited to send through their deepest unwanted behaviours, written as an I AM statement e.g. I AM IMPATIENT; I AM AGGRESSIVE; I AM CAUTIOUS. She will ask for one volunteer to demonstrate the technique with her. A zoom invitation will be sent out to those who get in touch with Veronica (results@veronicamunro.com) by October 3, 2022

Grab your free issue of choice Magazine here - https://choice-online.com/
In this episode, I talk with Veronica about her article published in our June 2022  issue.

Transcript

Speaker 1: 0:10

Hi, I'm Garry Schleifer. And this is Beyond the Page, brought to you by choice the magazine of professional coaching. And, you know, choice is more than a magazine. It's a community of people who use and share coaching tools, tips, and techniques to add value to their businesses, and of course, impact their clients. It's an institution of learning that has been built over 20 years. And you'll know that because when you get your issue, you'll see the 20th anniversary. Can you imagine? Wow, crazy or brilliant. Haven't decided which one I am yet. In today's episode, I'm speaking with International Executive and Leadership coach and strategic facilitator, Veronica M onroe. She's the author of an article in our latest issue, same cover, page 26, entitled"Get Off to a Great Start and Achieve Great Results." Her strengths include her exceptional ability to work c losely with leaders, leveraging their talents and facilitating sustainable behavioral change and that's to support them to achieve greater levels of business performance, as well as personal success and alignment. I like that, alignment. Let's not talk about work-life balance. Let's talk about alignment. Veronica has a strong business background working as a senior leader herself within global organizations for a number of years. Her talents as a coach include being relationship led, strength based, strategic and having a pragmatic approach. Don't you love her already? She's well known for her transformative approach. EMCC certified senior practitioner and nominated for the 2020 EMCC Global Coaching Award. She was in the top four, by the way. Her coaching practices include get ready, seat belts on, ontological, Gestalt, neurolinguistics, and brain and coaching, and certified Gallup leadership coach. And, like that's not enough, StrengthsFinder practitioner. She's qualified in a range of 360 Degree tools and psychometrics including Hogan, Gallup StrengthsFinder and Leadership Profiling MBTI Step I and II and Facet 5. I have no idea what she does in her spare time, if she has any. Welcome Veronica and thank you so m uch for joining me today. That's a mouthful. What do you do in your spare time? Or do you have any?

Speaker 2: 2:30

Yeah, I do actually. I didn't realize you were just going to read that out straight. I would've made it far more palatable for the audience.

Speaker 1: 2:38

You know what, it really speaks to the depth and breadth of your work, your learning and your commitment. And I don't think I would've taken a piece out of it. Right? I mean, yeah, I could have done a smaller bio, but getting to know you, it wouldn't have been telling to not have all of that in there. So too bad. It's on the record now.

Speaker 2: 3:00

So there we go.

Speaker 1: 3:02

Thank you. Well, listen, I do have spare time as well. Okay. And you are coming to us from outside London and, say it again, how you're on the Thames.

Speaker 2: 3:12

On the river Thames, by the river Thames.

Speaker 1: 3:14

The tongue of the Thames, you said?

Speaker 2: 3:16

No, the river Thames.

Speaker 1: 3:18

Okay, awesome. We have one here too. We have a Stratford and London and we're very British oriented as well. So, and we have a Shakespeare festival and the whole bit, so we are having fun with it. We have fun with our heritages. So, I mean, I love what our art director did because, you know, just starting to read the article, Get Off to a Great Start and Achieve Great Results. It really did speak to like Ready, Set, Go. So why did you feel the need to write this article?

Speaker 2: 3:52

Well, one of the things was that, and I think it's something has happened to me. First of all, you were doing some article on how to measure results. You k now, t his i s like and the return on t he i nvestments, all this sort o f stuff. A nd I had something happen in my professional life where, and I told the story at the beginning of this, where someone interviewed me for the coaching, decided to go with a man and went with this guy and, a nd it just unraveled and completely fell a part, t heir r elationship. A nd I thought to m yself, w onder what happened? S o t hen this leader said, I want to work with Veronica. So, o f course, he came back to me again and h e started wanting to tell me the story. And I said, let's not tell me, don't worry about the story because let's start from ground zero. You know, what are we going to work on, etc? And then I asked for a briefing from the previous coach and it really niggled me. And that's why I wrote what I wrote and what it was was this particular coach had come from a professional background. Not the coaching, but being a director himself and came into the first meeting with his client, having spoken to two or three of this client's stakeholders and literally read off pages and pages of all this leader's crimes.

Speaker 1: 5:35

Like you did in the beginning of the article.

Speaker 2: 5:37

Exactly. So, like he did at the beginning of the article. Yeah, exactly, but it was that situation. And so I actually asked the coach, I said, Tommy. He said well, that's what you do at, I can't tell you which very reputable coaching organization this was, but that's what we do at that organization, that educational institution. Oh, okay. So I said, well, and so what was his reaction? Well, he was really angry. I said, well, yeah, I probably might have been myself, you know? And I said, well, what are his strengths? Because I come from a strength space, I think, what do you leverage? That's really important because then people feel good about themselves, you know, at the beginning of any relationship. What are you good at? Let's discuss it. Cause that's why you are where you are anyway. And I said, what's he good at? He said, well, I don't know. I didn't ask.

Speaker 1: 6:36

Okay.

Speaker 2: 6:37

And then I said, oh, okay. And so, he said he must have been good at something because he was MD of this organization. So that really made me reflect on how important some of the key things are, the intro, for any coaching assignment. It's not who you are. It's how you actually treat and your attitude as you come in and also one of the things, he obviously hadn't put himself in the shoes of the clients. You know, it's really important to be, I'd say compassionate in a way. Say, you know, talk to me about what's going on for you. What are your strengths rather than reading his crimes? And I though, there's lots of coaching that's gone on over the last 20 years where people go on a course and I get new coaches or used to get new coaches to coach me. They say, can I do some of my hours coaching you? I said, oh please. But it's interesting how many will say to me, do you know what? I've got my coaching qualification. I've got all these 12 questions. So all I do is ask these 12 questions a nd I'm coaching a nd I'm thinking, hmm, t here's a little bit more to it.

Speaker 1: 8:03

Yeah. There's a little bit more nuance to it.

Speaker 2: 8:06

So, that's what triggered it. Sorry, a long way of saying that's what triggered this. You were talking about measuring results and I was thinking, you got to start at the front end. Right. And identify those key things that I was pointing out. Getting stakeholder input and the importance of that to help, you know, the person feel valued around who they are and supported in making any changes they need to make.

Speaker 1: 8:31

You know, I'm glad you told us it was a true story because when I read this, I'm like, she's got to be making this up.

Speaker 2: 8:39

No, no, no. It's true. It's true.

Speaker 1: 8:40

I know. I was like huh?

Speaker 2: 8:43

It made me angry.

Speaker 1: 8:47

Who does that?

Speaker 2: 8:47

Well this person did.

Speaker 1: 8:49

Yeah. And I won't mention any names. No, no, no, no. I'm just shocked at the whole thing.

Speaker 2: 8:54

But when he reads it? I might say by the way,

Speaker 1: 9:00

I stepped off from our conversation and wrote this article. I didn't put your name in it. Thank you very much. So you brought up a really good point and that is about strengths and you're, you know, highly qualified in this area, but tell us and our audience, why is it so important to identify and communicate those strengths back to the client? What's the psychological or the brain reaction?

Speaker 2: 9:27

Well, I think the first thing about getting inputs from stakeholders is obviously, you know, that you get a perception. What's the perception of this particular individual? But the benefits, you know, you start off with saying to the stakeholders, what are this client's strengths? What are he strengths? What's he really good at that we want to leverage? And so what happens is when you get people thinking about the nice stuff about somebody else, that builds a warmth in the stakeholder who might h ave actually gotten really angry about the behavioral s ignal shift, but it build, i t closes, it moves the relationship closer between the two, alright? By giving the feedback as well to the individual, it makes th em r ealize what these people value about him and therefore continues to do it. So that's a value in itself. And it's about getting the stakeholders involved as well. Asking them what are the areas of development, but also what does success look like? So when those stakeholders see that person doing that new behavior or not, they can give them feedback. And I said, can I ask you a favor? Could you please, in the coming months, when this person does that new behavior that you've just said is what success looks like, could you just give him a bit of recognition? Not for the ego, but more for if I said to you, like I was talking to you earlier, Garry, this is brilliant. Do more of it. It's fantastic. You go, yeah, you feel good about yourself,

Speaker 1: 11:13

Right? No kidding.

Speaker 2: 11:14

And you do more and you do more. But if you, as a client, if you do some change in your behavior and nobody notices, well, guess what? You think, why am I bothering? And we default back to our unwanted behavior, the ones that others maybe feel that we should change.

Speaker 1: 11:33

You know, I don't believe any of my clients when they say recognition or acknowledgement isn't important. I agree with you. It's a psychological need to be seen, to be witnessed and to, you know, to be acknowledged. And, you know, you're speaking towards the four points that you put in your article. So thank you very much because we're always looking for these articles to be practical and you were very clear. The one thing I wasn't sure and, I'm guessing you're gonna tell me I missed this, you talked about talking to others about the coachee's strengths. Do you ask the coachee what their strengths are?

Speaker 2: 12:11

Well, the first thing I do when I've done the original chemistry meeting, I invite them to suggest three individuals. You know, a manager, a peer, or a direct report. And then what I do is when I go into my first coaching session with the client, I will always ask them the same three questions. What are your strengths? What do you think your strengths are? And then we see if there's parity between the two. What are your areas of development? What will success look like for you. Then we've got a coaching plan or the beginnings. And then when I share with them, what others think of them in those three categories, their mind just goes, they're just like blown away. Because they go, oh, they like that about me. And also the most important thing is when the stakeholders say, this is the behavior I want to see him or her doing, and it's very explicit what the behavior is, but of course they can do that behavior. If they choose to. If they're aligned to do those, they can do it. So it's very clear what they have to deliver back in terms of the change. But along the way, we've got all these other things that we have to work on.

Speaker 1: 13:32

Right. That's brilliant. It's like a mini 360.

Speaker 2: 13:36

It is. And, you were asking me as well, what psychological level does that work at? It works at the identity level. Okay. Who am I? Am I valued? How am I valued? What do people value about me? It also, it enables us to understand what's important to the stakeholders. So if someone says, oh, this guy just races through the day and he's such a high achiever. That's what I like about him. Well, that tells me how I need to behave in front of this person.

Speaker 1: 14:04

Yeah. You know, we talk a lot about strengths and how do you handle the conversation about weaknesses?

Speaker 2: 14:17

Okay, good. Very good point. There's a couple of things here. So one thing, we look at strengths and then we look at sometimes lesser strengths, or a fallout of a strength. So every strength can have a shadow side if you overdo it. So for example, with Gallup view, you've got a strength of achiever. You know, I like achieving things. I tick all the boxes every day. What have I achieved and everything else That's okay. But then if it gets so much that I'm actually managing a team and putting pressure on them to do this system that I do, or put pressure on them to keep achieving more, then we start getting into the shadow side or the dark side, or the overdoing of a strength. And I don't refer to them as weaknesses. It's more or less it's, you know, the consequences of doing something too much.

Speaker 1: 15:16

Or too little.

Speaker 2: 15:18

Yeah. Or too little. Absolutely. And also within the Gallup StrengthsFinder or the Leadership Strengths, we look at lesser strengths. So for example, Garry, I know don't know very much about you, but let me just say. If I said to you, you know, do you play rugby? Is rugby one of your things? Are you really good at rugby?

Speaker 1: 15:40

Oh, okay. We're gonna pretend.

Speaker 2: 15:42

No, you're not gonna pretend. So you're not any good at rugby. Well guess what, do I call that a weakness? No, it's not, it's a lesser strength. You just haven't developed that particular strength. You may develop that strength later on in life. Maybe not rugby, but you know.

Speaker 1: 16:03

Let's go with something simple brain surgery.

Speaker 2: 16:10

I was thinking about that painting behind you. Actually. Now that painting behind you, I don't know who painted that. Right. But you may have that talent within you, but because you haven't painted or you don't paint very much and you think you're rubbish painting. It is not a weakness. It's a lesser strength. So it's not about a weakness. The other thing is, if I have a particular, for example, I hate doing tax returns. You know, I'm sure you do as well. It may not be as bad states or the UK.

Speaker 1: 16:43

I kind of like financials and all that but I know enough to be dangerous, but I also know enough to not do it myself.

Speaker 2: 16:53

Well, that's what my point is. So if someone has a blind spot, you can be aware of a blind spot, but if it's just not your strength to do something like I don't like doing my taxes. I can do it but it just takes so long. I just hate it so I just pass it to somebody else. So when you talk about lesser strength or weaknesses, I wouldn't call it weaknesses. It's just something that you

Speaker 1: 17:18

Well, you and I, you're obviously entrepreneurial as well. We are known to be a Jack of all trades and a master of none. And I pride myself on not having any particular strength that overshadows the other. For example, our managing editor, I hired the best person I can so she could challenge me back, hired the best art director I can because I'm not an art director. Could I do it? Yeah. But I don't think you'd wanna see it. There are people that, maybe the difference in what I'm saying is a core competency or a honed skill. Like our managing editor has a Bachelor of Journalism and et cetera. Right? Probably has Bachelor of English or something like that too. So they've chosen that career based on perhaps a strength or a series of strengths that they saw or they were called to.

Speaker 2: 18:16

Yeah.

Speaker 1: 18:16

Right. Oh, that's interesting. Yeah. Cool. Well, I'm not going to play rugby anytime soon, but I do want to show you.

Speaker 2: 18:24

You are not a brain surgeon either.

Speaker 1: 18:27

No, no, I'm bright, but I'm not that bright. Speaking of practical, a number of things in here, one more, I want to touch base on. You have right here is ways of being a motivational intervention. So tell us why you put this in, how do you use it? And I'm guessing there are other ways of being that we might want to just slip in there as, you know, fodder.

Speaker 2: 18:52

Okay. So, ways of being is a technique that was created by the person who trained me to become an executive coach and set me off on that career. A guy called David Roth, who ran a company called Performance Unlimited. And I'm going to just give a plug here. Why not?

Speaker 1: 19:17

Ah, shameless self promotion, your book

Speaker 2: 19:21

In this book though, there are a series of practical chapters on the different levels of coaching. So the conscious mind, the unconscious, the emotions, the identity and the soul level. Within that, I invited people with different specialties to work and develop these. David Roth designed the way of being technique and intervention. I'm reading it on page 27 and you don't get a real good look of what it's about. What is a way of being? We have many, many ways of being. It's part of our identity. So for example, you are a partner, you are a publisher, you are a writer, you know, so it's an I am statement and there are also I ams that we have, but there are ways of being. We have default behaviors. When we get a trigger, we might get irritated or angry or aggressive or impatient, which is one, you know, that I mentioned here. And so what I do in the first session after I've, you know, given the person the feedback is I start on a way of being just so that people get a deeper understanding of why do they do this thing that they do, you know, and what are the benefits? So I would ask them, what's your most unhelpful way of being? So what's yours.

Speaker 1: 21:00

Okay, help me frame this. I can be very extremely organized. Like when all hell breaks loose, I organize things. So I don't know how you would say that as a way.

Speaker 2: 21:11

So how is that unhelpful?

Speaker 1: 21:14

Because it's my way or the highway organized.

Speaker 2: 21:18

Okay. So it has to be your way.

Speaker 1: 21:21

Well, the world is falling apart and I jump in to save the day by organizing and getting everybody back on the right page.

Speaker 2: 21:29

Right. Okay. So there are benefits of that. Aren't there?

Speaker 1: 21:33

Oh, very much so, because then everybody knows what to expect and, if I do it right, they know what to do.

Speaker 2: 21:41

They know what to do. They know what to expect. Well, the benefits to you are you get things back on the road again. What are the other benefits of you doing that behavior?

Speaker 1: 21:49

Calmness. I get rid of the chaos. I can't s tand the chaos. Like we just moved and I just find myself unpacking boxes because my husband just is like, he's done. So I kind of take over and organize. So t he good thing is things get done. The bad t hing is I don't always put them where they might want to be put.

Speaker 2: 22:15

Okay. So when I'm doing this with someone, whether it's face to face or online, I will put at the top, you know, I am overly organized. And so we look at, so what are the benefits of that? And literally, I will write them down in the client's words and they go, yeah. And what's what's the importance of doing it? Well, your importance is you avoid chaos.

Speaker 1: 22:43

And get things done,

Speaker 2: 22:44

Gets things done, gets results done. Then you look at the consequences. So what are the consequences of being like that?

Speaker 1: 22:52

Piss off people?

Speaker 2: 22:55

Stress people.

Speaker 1: 22:56

I stress them. Yeah.

Speaker 2: 22:58

What else?

Speaker 1: 22:59

They get mad and leave. They go to another room. They do something else. They ignore me because I'm being too assertive to be polite.

Speaker 2: 23:15

And actually that impacts your effectiveness of getting things calm.

Speaker 1: 23:20

Oh, there is the big one. I end up doing it by myself.

Speaker 2: 23:25

There you go. And do you like doing it by yourself?

Speaker 1: 23:31

I work best in collaboration. And I think that many hands make light work, they say, right? And we had a friend over here and what a godsend he was. He helped us get so much accomplished in the move and we couldn't have done it without him.

Speaker 2: 23:48

Yeah. Great. Great. Sowhat you look at is, so who am I? I am overly organized or I am impatient or I am aggressive or I am very shy or I'm very condescending or, you know, whatever that"I am think is. But people are motivated to want to change. And once they look at the benefits and they look at the consequences and they're looking at, you know, a white board or a screen. And of course, the consequences you can get quite deep with and what are the consequences of that and that, and that they go, oh, I might actually lose my husband, you know?

Speaker 1: 24:24

Right. Yeah. It's a possibility.

Speaker 2: 24:27

That's right. So, if you looked at your strengths, when you get that trigger to become overly organized, what's an alternative way of being you could use at that point that you're already good at? One of your strengths that would enable you to achieve the benefits, get things organized, create calm, all that sort of stuff, get the results you want, but removes all the consequences,

Speaker 1: 24:59

You know, so what came up to mind right away is my coaching skills. So rather than be dictatorial, be more, you know, what should we do with this one? I'm not quite sure where it should go. And then the other one is just sheer collaboration and asking for help. People love to help. Well, the friends that we have so far.

Speaker 2: 25:24

They're still your friends anyway.

Speaker 1: 25:26

They're still, yeah. We took them out for a really nice dinner. So we're good.

Speaker 2: 25:31

So one of your alternatives is when you get that trigger, you know, you can either turn that way and become overly organized. Drive people crazy as well as yourself, or at that trigger, you can say, okay, I'm going to be collaborative. I'm going to be engaging. I'm going to coach. I'm going to be curious. And so when you turn, you go that way, then what I would discuss with you would be, so what are the behaviors that you would be doing? And you describe them by asking them their ideas, where should I put this, to create that collaboration? So you wouldn't have any of the consequences. So we get into a level of detail. So people practice that because it always comes up. Sometimes every day, hopefully not, but you know, or it might be once a week or whatever, and you get that trigger and say, oh, this is my opportunity. And you remember, you can choose to be this, you get into that state. You know what the behaviors are because we would've discussed them and they practice those and it's great. They can still be overly organized if they choose to, but now they're aware of the consequences they might choose.

Speaker 1: 26:42

Well, the other way to do it is have a different outlet, like publishing a magazine where you're the boss and they have to do what you say. And, but again, I hold the space for the completion. I allow them to fill in the colors and do the drawing and that sort thing. Right?

Speaker 2: 27:01

The things that they're really good at that you're not.

Speaker 1: 27:03

Right. Well, and that's something I did too in the move. I let others do what they're good at and kind of herded them over to that area. Like, you know, okay put those glasses where you like them because see what's important to them in the way that they like to help make results.

Speaker 2: 27:24

Yes.

Speaker 1: 27:25

Right. Like my husband didn't like the way the dining room was and I said, so change it. I think he was expecting me to go no, no, no. And I've learned, it's just like, no, he has brilliant ideas. He sees things differently and creates things. He's a creative and I have to remember to let people use their skills. So that would be another one. And I think the final piece is with that is the sense of urgency. Take a look and see, does whatever I'm on top of need to have that sense of urgency that requires my escalated organization skills or not. Sorry I cut you off.

Speaker 2: 28:03

That's fine. That's fine.

Speaker 1: 28:07

Wow. I got some free coaching. I love this call and I learned so much too. You were gonna say

Speaker 2: 28:16

No. What I was thinking is with employees, if they can use their strengths every single day and be comfortable to use it and their bosses is making sure that, you know, they have things to do tasks or projects or whatever, where they can use those strengths. You've got an engaged employee and in a big organization, you've got engaged employee if you've got a great manager and then what you've got is engaged clients or customers. It could be internal customers or out and that builds growth in the business.

Speaker 1: 28:52

Yeah.

Speaker 2: 28:53

Leading on to profitability, all that sort of stuff. And people are happy. It's when you are a literally around peg in a square hole, you've got a rotten manager and you think all I want to do is leave.

Speaker 1: 29:06

Yeah. Unfortunately.

Speaker 2: 29:08

And that does happen.

Speaker 1: 29:08

Yeah, it does. We know the number one reason people leave their jobs is because of their bosses. If they had a coach maybe it would be a little different, but we'll see. We can't change the whole world all at once, but we're making a darn good try at it. Veronica, thank you so much for today. I just wanted to ask, did anything come to mind after you wrote the article that you might want to include or say, or have we said it all today?

Speaker 2: 29:38

Well, I think what I'd like to add is for coaches to really understand that every interaction between two people leaves an emotional footprint and an impact, right? We've had a conversation. You will go away feeling something. Hopefully it's a positive.

Speaker 1: 30:00

Oh, definitely. I'm on top now.

Speaker 2: 30:02

So if they realize that every time they have an interaction with anybody, not just a client, but every interaction between people leaves an emotional footprint to be mindful, you know, with that impact, whether we like it or not, what is the impact that we want to have? What is the emotional footprint we want to leave? Do we want to have someone feeling uplifted and motivated? Going, yes. Thank you. I now know what I've gotta have to do or you leave them feeling deflated. And that was my point. We want to inflate people. We want to grow people. We want to get the best out of people and make them feel good about themselves. Yeah. And that's probably one thing I think is really important.

Speaker 1: 30:47

Yeah. Well, thank you for that term, emotional footprint. That resonates. In light of we know what carbon footprint is and things like this, it's a term that's easily digestible and I'm thinking, yeah, you know, how do I want to leave? And I do my best never to leave a negative emotional footprint. So that's my goal in life. So thank you for giving it a name. Thank you for being here. This was awesome. Thank you for writing. Don't be a one hit wonder. Feel free to write any time and let your friends know as well. Thank you for just being on this Beyond the Page episode. What's the best way to reach you Veronica?

Speaker 2: 31:28

Best way to reach me is at my email address, which is you might realize is results@ veronicamunro.com. I'm on LinkedIn as well. Also remember the gift we mentioned as well.

Speaker 1: 31:43

Yes, that's coming up too. And you can find that on the page right below this recording.

Speaker 2: 31:49

Right. And so, so, you know, I'd like to offer the people interested in doing The Ways of Being Intervention and see it live. I'm putting on a couple of these later on this year, September and October, so that people could just dial in on Zoom. Contact me, ask me for the link for the Zoom. And you know, maybe one of the people there would like me to work on them. So if they have something, a way of being they really want to change and they haven't been able to shift it, I'd be very happy to use them in a demonstration.

Speaker 1: 32:22

Oh, thank you so much. And put me on the list for advising me when that's coming up.

Speaker 2: 32:27

I will.

Speaker 1: 32:27

And we can let our audience know too through our weekly recaps when we promote it. The information will be in there as well. And we can repeat it as many times as we want because I'm in control the organization. Okay, that's a whole other way of being. All right folks, that's it for this episode of Beyond the Page. For more episodes, subscribe via your favorite podcast app. We're available on our website choice-online.com, Spotify, Apple, Buzzprout. And I don't know what else my team is working on, but, we are getting some great traction and we hope you enjoy the episode. Don't forget to sign up for your free digital issue of choice magazine by going to choice-online.com and clicking the signup now button. I'm Garry Schleifer. Enjoy the journey to mastery.