In this interview, we talk with Janet Harvey about her article entitled, "Becoming a Team Coaching Master ~ The value of sponsor-leader-member engagement."
To be sought out and engaged as a team and group coach requires mastering the conversations have with sponsors, leaders, and members of teams ad groups about the value of deploying a team coach.
The ICF Core Competency skills provide guidance as a starting point. Build your
language and your business case for team and group coaching now because the need is urgent. The knowledge and confidence to evidence the value of the solution called team and group coaching must be developed, practiced and refined as the environment and context of business – variable by culture and experience – increases in complexity and change.
In this podcast, we will dive into some useful content to begin building your value proposition as a professional coach who supports teams and groups.
Janet Harvey is a coach, an author and educator and speaker. She invites people to be the cause of a life that most matters in early adopter for creating a coaching centered workplace.
Janet has worked with global organizations and teams of leaders within to establish a generative resilient and high-performance culture through a coaching approach to leading and managing success.
Janet brings her executive and entrepreneurial experience as CEO or invite change leaders in sustainable excellence through a signature generative coaching and learning process for people process and systems called generative wellness.
Join us as we discuss the how to work with teams and groups in a generative way.
Watch the full interview by clicking here.
Find the full article here: https://bit.ly/Harvey_Mastery
Learn more about Janet here.
Grab your free issue of choice Magazine here - https://choice-online.com/
In this episode, I talk with Janet about her article published in our December 2022 issue.
In this interview, we talk with Janet Harvey about her article entitled, "Becoming a Team Coaching Master ~ The value of sponsor-leader-member engagement."
To be sought out and engaged as a team and group coach requires mastering the conversations have with sponsors, leaders, and members of teams ad groups about the value of deploying a team coach.
The ICF Core Competency skills provide guidance as a starting point. Build your
language and your business case for team and group coaching now because the need is urgent. The knowledge and confidence to evidence the value of the solution called team and group coaching must be developed, practiced and refined as the environment and context of business – variable by culture and experience – increases in complexity and change.
In this podcast, we will dive into some useful content to begin building your value proposition as a professional coach who supports teams and groups.
Janet Harvey is a coach, an author and educator and speaker. She invites people to be the cause of a life that most matters in early adopter for creating a coaching centered workplace.
Janet has worked with global organizations and teams of leaders within to establish a generative resilient and high-performance culture through a coaching approach to leading and managing success.
Janet brings her executive and entrepreneurial experience as CEO or invite change leaders in sustainable excellence through a signature generative coaching and learning process for people process and systems called generative wellness.
Join us as we discuss the how to work with teams and groups in a generative way.
Watch the full interview by clicking here.
Find the full article here: https://bit.ly/Harvey_Mastery
Learn more about Janet here.
Grab your free issue of choice Magazine here - https://choice-online.com/
In this episode, I talk with Janet about her article published in our December 2022 issue.
I am laughing as I'm here. Garry Schleifer with Janet Harvey, and this is Beyond the Page brought to you by choice, the magazine of Professional Coaching. choice is more than a magazine. It's a community of people who use and share coaching tools, tips, and techniques to add value to their businesses and impact their clients. It's an institution of learning built over the course of, yes, 20 years dedicated to improving the lives of coaches and their clients. I know, right? Just finished the 20th year. In today's episode, I'm speaking with Janet Harvey, who is the regular contributing author of our Coaching Mastery column. Thank you. Her latest article is entitled, Becoming a Team Coaching Master- The Value of Sponsor, Leader, Member Engagement. Janet Harvey's, a coach, an author, an educator, and a speaker. I've recently watched her TEDx Talk and it was absolutely amazing, and read your book.
:Thank you. Invite Change. Oh my gosh, I forgot the title. Hold on. The Year of No Return- Lessons from 2020. Brilliant. I highly recommend that our listeners pick up that book. We've also written about it in a book review, so if you want to get a snapshot of it, it's in a previous issue, just contact me and I'll point you to the right place. Janet invites people to be the cause of a life that most matters in early adopter for creating a coaching centered workplace. Janet has worked with global organizations and teams of leaders within to establish a generative, resilient and high performance culture through a coaching approach to leading and managing success. Janet brings her executive and entrepreneurial experience as CEO of InviteChange. Oh, now that's interesting.
Speaker 1:I read this differently before as CEO of InviteChange, but you could also think that she invites change with leaders in sustainable excellence through a signature generative coaching and learning process for people and systems called Generative Wellness. I am happy to say that I am part of that learning, I guess would be the best way to say it, in the recent Advanced Generative Coaching Program. So thank you for all of your work at both Invite Change, and for those that may not know, Janet and I met at the International Coach Federation back in the day, now the Coaching Federation, while we were both serving on the Global Board of Directors, and she later became the President of the International Coaching Federation. You do so much for so many and you still have time for life, so, which is really great. So you're walking your talk. Really appreciate it. Thank you so much for joining me today. We were just chatting about the article just before and some things that came to mind for me as a regular contributor to the Coaching Mastery column, you don't normally follow the theme, and I noticed that this time you dug into some, I would call it, behind the scenes pieces of team and group coaching. Some of the things that you spoke about as far as statistics were in interesting and important that weren't said in other articles. Can you tell me more about what had you shift into our theme this time?
Speaker 2:Absolutely, Garry, and a joy to be with you as always. My reasoning was that in the almost 12 years now that I've been delivering a Continuing Ed program for how to work with teams and groups in a generative way. You might remember I got started in coaching working with the collective one to many before I did one-to-one. I do things a little bassackwards. So I've walked in the shoes of practitioners wondering, how in the world am I going to tell somebody what the heck this is? One-on-one made a little more sense to people because they could find some analogies to mentoring or some analogies to maybe a sporting event. But working one to many is a different animal altogether, as many have seen in, in looking at the core competencies that have been issued. Remembering that the client is the interaction field of the people who have gathered in the group or the team. It's not necessary to make a distinction between those two for the purposes of the little"c" coaching that's going on. But there is a huge distinction when you start to think about the system that that group of people resides within. And what I have seen over the years is that when we put forward something we call The Anatomy of an Engagement, and I always see the student's eyes get big as half dollars. It's just amazing and I realize, oh, coaching's just like this one little piece over here. There is relationship building that is essential with the sponsor, with HR, which sometimes is running a coaching program oversight kind of role, different from the sponsor who's writing the c heck. Then there's the team members, and then t here's the stakeholders associated with those team members and HR and the sponsor and there's measurement. How will they recognize the evidence that what they've engaged the practitioner for is actually happening? Of course, we're always contracting because the thing we start w ith is never the thing we f inish with. We all know t his.
Speaker 1:No kidding, right?
:Exponentially transforming, evolving, when you're working one to many because of all the things that are outside influences on the team that is a system within a system within a system. Then of course they're celebrating. One of the things you and I often talk about is how the scarcity mindset shows up because we don't pause and collect ourselves. We fail to value the time spent saying who have I become? This is, of course, a very generative practice of learning. Until we learn that, oh, I've got that now. Okay, now I can let my imagination go and originate some new thinking. Those rhythms don't happen without celebrating. I like to say artful acknowledgement, but that gets us off on another rabbit hole. So I don't.
Speaker 1:S o we called it Celebrating. But what we're really saying is, can you c ome c urrent with the development that's happened? Because if you don't, you won't open your mindset to being in growth orientation again. And everything changes too fast. You have to open t o a new orientation. Yeah. I'm hearing as well, or similarly, to pause and reflect, to process. We watch our clients and they just go so fast and things change so fast. I mean, you said it in a conversation with Damuk about the rate of, what is it? The rate of change of knowledge.
Speaker 2:Doubling of human knowledge,
Speaker 1:Doubling of human knowledge.
Speaker 2:Knowledge now doubles every 12 hours.,
Speaker 1:It used to be like 12 or more years. Now it's every 12 hours. So our clients, one-on-one, are dealing with this rapid change. How can you be an expert if what you learned 12 hours ago has changed yet again? How do you keep on top of that and still do everything you need to do? So even the way you speak about team and group coaching is a conversation. It sounds very elegant the way you speak about it and it sounds very impactful. So what gets in the way of coaches inviting a company to engage as a team coach and have this beautiful ripple effect?
Speaker 2:Yeah. One very simple thing is too quick to be in the room with the team. Because that identity often, for the practitioner, is the thing I'm bringing as a team coach is my interaction and relationship with the team itself. And they step over the very important perspective of value. What does the organization value in the performance of this team? And its contribution to whatever the organizational outcomes are and the key performance indicators that they use to recognize that something is performing well or not performing well. In which case, we want it to shift or we want to up-level it because we have a new strategy happening. All those things I just said, they are the business of the enterprise and as coaches, it's very important that we ask about these things. In one-on-one, it's important, but you could actually get away with coaching a leader and doing a good job coaching that leader and they will be responsible for whether or not they're contributing to the organization. But the stakes are different with a team and part of that is because they often have less authority to influence the outcomes that are outside of whatever the remit is for the team directly. As a team coach, my job doesn't have anything to do with the outcomes. It has to do with how are they being with each other? And if I don't understand the cultural factors that are driving, what is it that the leader is seeing? Does the team see it the same way? Is the future of the organization actually setting this team up for success? Things like time, how much money has been given to them? Do they have access to the necessary resources, human and technology? How have they set up accountability, which in my language is, authority gets granted usually by the sponsor or the team leader, not necessarily the same person. And the folks on the team accept responsibility to fulfill it. Is that clear to everybody? Is it actually happening? These are questions to suss out before you begin the team coaching process. Because, and this is in the ethics of the team coaching competencies, you need to make sure coaching is the right thing. The stage of that particular collective may not be ready for it. They might not actually have formed enough to accept responsibility for their autonomy and our work is about fostering their autonomy. So if they're not quite ready to step into it and you can't make assumptions about it, you might think you've seen hundreds of teams, you know exactly what's going on with them and we'll be wrong because that's our experience, not the teams experience. So that's why I was talking so much about this relational field with the sponsor and the HR VP and the team members themselves. In our program we give them a tool to do a bit of an assessment on these cultural and investments or kind of team setup processes as well as how to learn about the different modalities. There's at least a dozen that are identified in the core competency language itself. So there's a big expectation for team coaches to broaden the camera lens a little bit in terms of how they look at this practice well beyond the coaching.
Speaker 1:Oh, I think it's a wide angle lens. Just on a little bit. It's got so many nuances to it and complexities and what I'm hearing is it's 90% planning and 10% execution. So 90% of relationship building, assessing, reviewing, getting people on board, both in the team and outside the team. And then the 10% that we want to rush to is the actual coaching. Does that sound fair?
Speaker 2:That's right. I think that's right. There was a column we did, I think two issues back and I entitled it Co-creating Measurement. So whenever the measurement issue was, I think that was June, right? I gave your readers a set of questions, a way to be thinking about how do I create measurement? You don't, the organization creates measurement, but our job as coaches is to evoke awareness. People assume, well, of course we're going to measure it, right? Am I getting a return on this investment I'm making in coaching? No, you're making an investment in your team. Coaching is an intervention that you're purchasing to invest in your team's excellence. Now leader, how do you know your team is performing better?
Speaker 1:Right? Exactly. It's always coaching questions, isn't it?
Speaker 2:Always a coaching question. Of course we teach a technique we call a Current Situation. This is not rocket science folks, right? This is not a highly sophisticated thing, but it's a step. Many coaches step over. Spend some time. It's an hour conversation. Maybe it's two or three hour conversations alittle bit at a time, helping that leader talk out loud, hear themselves talk out loud. I set up this team to do X because X was important to the strategy and this is what we want to have be different with our customers as a result of the work this team is doing. And as they hear themselves talking, you'll sense as a coach, whether they believe it or not.
Speaker 1:No kidding, right?
Speaker 2:Whether they're up here in the vision, but they're not grounded in reality and we continue to ask questions for them to have that moment when they think to themselves, no wonder this team isn't working well, because I haven't said half of this out loud. Happens all the time. Or I have said this till I'm blue in the face and they're not getting it. What's in the way? Well, it's the team.
Speaker 1:Well there is no such thing as the team. So what was the condition in the organization when you decided to form that team? How did those people get invited on that team? What was your method of profiling them as capable with the mindset and the skillset to do the work? I'm back into coaching and now what I'm doing is getting that leader to express the gap. Well, I hired him to do this, or I gave the team assignment to do this, but they're doing that. What gives? You can hear him get really frustrated. So you know ideally what you were going for. It's not happening. What do you think the top three things are? If you could have them adopt this kind of behavior and deploy it, implementing what the team is supposed to come up with, what would happen as a result of that? And now they're gonna naturally start talking about measurement. Well, that process of interviewing to create the current situation is building trust, is cultivating safety with that sponsor that you as a practitioner know what the heck you're doing, Yeah, exactly right.
Speaker 2:And I write all that stuff down, right? So at the end of whatever amount of time it takes to get that information, I give it back and I have them read it and I have them look me in the eye and tell me, yep, you've got everything. Nine times out of 10 they'll say, there's one more stakeholder that's influencing the situation. Okay, let's get that flushed out because now I can walk into the team knowledgeable. I can walk into the team understanding.
Speaker 1:That's true. Yeah.
Speaker 2:Compassionately, empathy wise, appreciating the system they live inside of and those influences. So when the team says to me, they won't let us do that.
Speaker 1:Yeah. Well there's another, who's they?
Speaker 2:Right? Or they'll say, the boss didn't tell us that. Wwhen was the last time you put yourself in a box like this and said only the words on the page? I don't think so guys, you got brought onto this team because you had these capabilities and how do I know that? Because I've done my homework, I've done the current situation work, and ultimately, what are we dealing with? We're not dealing with their skills and deployment, we're dealing with their relationship to the organization, to each other, to that sponsor, to that body of work they're asked to do and they're uncertain about something. We don't know what, but something and the coaching work then brings that into the space for them to say, okay, what's the new relationship you want with all of this? How will you step into your power here? Right. What do you want to ask for? So I can't do that work well. I can't do it quickly. I can't do it it in a laser-like way if I haven't gotten myself oriented to those relationships and the system influences that are outside of what's going on in the team coaching.
Speaker 1:Yeah. Wow. I can't help but picture the planning and building of a house.
Speaker 2:Right a metaphor.
:What does the plan look like, a sponsor and the diagram would be what would a successful outcome look like? Then the key components, the different rooms might be different stakeholders and I just get chills. As much as it sounds complex, it also sounds very exciting and rewarding when done well.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:You asked what the obstacles are. So one of them is too quick to go into the coaching and that's what we've been talking about. But I think another one is, it feels like too much work for free. Students have asked me about this over the years and I've said that's a little bit like saying there's no time to talk to your people. Managers tell us that all the time. It takes too much time to manage relationships with my team members. And the conversation goes to, and the consequence of stepping over that relationship building, cultivating trust and safety shows up where? The leader will say to me, oh, having to reassign people, missed deadlines, misuse of resources, nobody checking status, poor performance isn't addressed. And the cost of all those things? It's invisible cost, right? Yeah. It's constructive leadership. It's not on the P and L anywhere, but it's real and it causes a lot of emotional upheaval and teams get bad reputations and maybe not really warranted because the system itself wasn't set up for that team to operate. So if what a team really needs is better chartering and maybe go back to the drawing board with the sponsor on how people were selected and what they were set up to accomplish, and we rush to go and coach, we're actually creating invisible cost in the organization and emotional heartache. It makes no sense to do. You won't get invited back.
Speaker 1:Yeah, exactly. Right.
Speaker 2:So if you want a long-term relationship with this organization and you want to ripple out to more teams, do your homework upfront and demonstrate the professionalism to structure that into the work. You'll get paid for it. You build it into your fees in your contract for that upfront work. Don't see it as something you're doing for free. It's an investments in your long-term relationship with that organization.
Speaker 1:Well an investment in their success, which in turn affects your relationship. It's interesting you talk about relationship because in the article you, uh, wrote that there's been no change over the last seven years with regards to engagement, and yet the writing is on the wall. You also said that the team, the people are asking for more engagement, not less.
Speaker 2:That's right.
Speaker 1:How does a leader reconcile the fact that they're asking for feedback, they're asking for connection and I don't have enough time, right? So obviously whole, but also that you, to go to coaching. We talked about that earlier. The coaching's starting already when you meet with the company, the leader.
Speaker 2:From the very first conversation
Speaker 1:It started even before that because I believe that sales is, it's not sales, it's not selling, it's a relationship conversation. And it's all coaching right from the very beginning. So just like you're saying about free versus it's included. I mean, you want to get to coaching, start soon as you meet somebody. What do you want to get out of it? All the structures that you're talking about and have it put together in your program.
Speaker 2:That's exactly right. You know, the other thing that was in the article that is worthy of weaving into what you just brought forward here is the intergenerational workplace. It has always been true that we've had multiple generations in the workplace. What's different in this moment in time we find ourselves is we've not had such a divide in the methodology of interface. So the digital generations, which are the core millennials and then down into Gen Z, their brains operate very differently from the Greatest Era, the Baby Boomers, Gen X, and anybody who finds themselves in the in between years. We grew up in a non-technology environment and we've had to adapt and while we're pretty good at the adaption, we're not natives. We're not natives to that experience. So the use of resources, the values around planning, the comfort with forming, un-forming and reforming, working on multiple teams simultaneously, not having the traditional intact team, now we have hybrid. There are so many structural changes to how people think about sense into how they relate to the organization. That it's really hard for leaders. So they've unfortunately said, well, you seem so entitled. What makes you think you can get feedback twice a week or twice a month or once a week, or whatever it is you think you want. I never got that. They need to take a breath and realize that because there is so much more, that the plates fuller, everybody's plate is fuller, the pace of doing work is faster than it's ever been because we think in the digital world that that's okay, but there's still a human processing. So, basically what the digital natives are asking for is human connection.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:If we can lift our judgment about it being entitlement that's judgmental and discern, what would be the payoff? When I make the time to be with them, make it a 15 minute huddle. It doesn't have to be an hour long. Shift your mindset, a 15 minute huddle every other week with that team has them have a sparkle in their eye. Like, oh, my boss cares. He or she showed up in this space and actually listened. That would be the other piece. And had more of a steward mindset around it. What is in your way that I actually am in a position to get out of your way so you all keep doing your good work? These are the things that they're asking for. It's not help me get promoted, help me get more money. That, at the end of the day, might be words that come out of their mouth, but it's not what they're wanting and that's what the engagement data's been trying to say for a long time. Maybe this shift, the year of no return, was to say, look, we're not going back to thousands and thousands and thousands of people five days a week in the workspace. It'll be anywhere.
Speaker 1:Well, and the consequence or the evidence to that is the Great Resignation and Quiet Quitting. You don't give me what I want and I don't really care about the money. I care more about my lifestyle and my wellbeing. I'll just disappear. I'll go somewhere where it is there, where I will get the interaction, the relationship building that I want. It's funny when you were saying that about the huddle, anytime I go past a bank before it opens, there's always a huddle in the morning. Just before they open the doors and they go right to the minute of opening the doors. Of course they never opened the a minute earlier but they're always huddled there and it can be as simple as just acknowledging what's changed, what new has come up. I've even seen them celebrate outside during Pride Month and having a group shot with their team t-shirts, if you will. And just having things which, you know, unfortunately can't happen as easily in a hybrid environment. But, I'm sure there's one.
Speaker 2:That's a limiting belief.
Speaker 1:Right?
Speaker 2:You can have screenshots on Zoom.
Speaker 1:Oh, that's true.
Speaker 2:Whatever you want, right?
Speaker 1:Yep. That's true. That's true. Well, listen, I have another big question that shifts a little bit. You spoke about generative coaching. We've talked a lot about that. What does it mean and what are the benefits for being generative as a team coach? You mentioned that in your article and I think our audience would like to know a little bit more. That's really what we know you for Sovereign, Generative. Tell us more.
Speaker 2:Well, first of all, as I've said to many audiences recently, I'm really not a big fan of models. And unfortunately we've learned to think thinking models, so models we create. So why do we do that? Why do we create models? In some ways it's about being able to have a place to hold an ambiguous concept until we can make it pragmatic and embodied. And I would say that generative came out of that, and it came out o f my clients who w ould ask me, what are you doing? And why does it work?
Speaker 1:It just seemed like such a mystery to them because they're not in the interactions with a team. The team is in it, but the sponsor's not, the HR VP's not. So I began to pay attention to what I was noticing behaviorally. We have many quadrated systems and models in the human development spectrum. Quadrated meaning four parts. And I said, huh, I wonder if we looked at it that way and we were really focused on what's relevant to someone being effective and productive. So if you look up generative in the dictionary, you're going to see these four capacities, originating, imagination, ideation, brainstorming, the freedom to just throw anything out. That's a developed capacity. Not everybody's got it. That's why we spend a lot of money teaching people about those things. And then we need to be able to translate all of that thinking into something tangible.
Speaker 2:That's the create step. Not creativity. That has lots of pieces and parts to it, but a very specific capacity of, well that's a cool idea. How will we implement that? And we start to do experimenting and piloting. Well, nothing's going get from create to produce an outcome, which is one of the generative capacities, if I don't do some learning. If I don't pay attention, did it work? Did anybody like it? How do we know? Did it have a profit margin that's reasonable? Is it values aligned? Is it mission congruent? That's all learning capabilities. We've spent billions of dollars all over the world to try to create learning organizations. We ain't there yet.
Speaker 1:My argument would be, the reason we ain't there yet is because we haven't actually invested in helping people learn to be learners. This is why Carol Dweck's work around growth mindset has been so valuable and all the rage because oh, maybe we finally have some idea about what it means to be a learner. Not a brand new, but continuous learning. So generative is the dynamic capacity to originate, create, learn, and produce. Now, the reason I say generative wholeness is it doesn't do any good if you're doing it on somebody else's dime. What does Garry expect of me? What does Susie expect of me? What does Johnny expect of me? We will always be chasing the revolving door. We'll be behind every single time because they will have moved on by the time we've decided to act. Y eah.
Speaker 2:The only thing we really have influence over and choice over. There you go, power of choice.
Speaker 1:Power of choice.
:Is our authentic self. Not what somebody else thinks our authentic self is, but what we think it is. The essence of ourselves and from that we realize, you know what, I really have responsibility to be at choice about how I relate to the conditions of my lives. I might not be able to change my circumstance immediately, but it ain't ever gonna change unless I look at it clearly and I begin to say, how does it align with what I care about? What matters to me? So the the stepping into the authentic self and then embodying those capacities, that's generative wholeness. And from that space, now I can actually see what everybody else has as capabilities. I'm not trying to prove anything to them and I don't need them to prove anything to me. We can have a far more transparent conversation and we're diving into all four of those capacities together. That's exponential performance when we get there. That's the promise of generative team coaching.
Speaker 1:Wow. The word that comes to mind is rich. Just rich, deep, rich, fulfilling work. That's what coaching is. It's what it is to me. So, well, thank you so much. I have a couple more questions. Number one, this is a really tough one. What would you like our audience to do as a result of this article and this conversation?
:Well, I'd love for them to enroll in the Generative Team Coaching Program.
Speaker 1:I was hoping you were going to say that. I highly, highly recommend it.
Speaker 2:We've upgraded it. So it's been a 36 hour program for a long time and we do something very unique in our program, which is a full simulation of being a living team. So you are practicing and getting feedback of team coaching skills while you're in the learning container and we've retained that. We also have an individual mentoring component, six hours over the course of the program, so that you are tailoring what you're learning to your unique client base one-on-one and who you are because who you are is how you coach so we added that into the program. The first 40 hours is all the fundamentals. The team coaching and competencies, our generative methodology, simulation and feedback and the first four hours of mentor coaching. Everything you need to know how to contract the things we started with today.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:And then you gotta go out and get a contract before you can come to part two. Part one's 40 hours. Part two is 20 hours. It's spaced a little differently where the first is weekly. This now goes to biweekly so that you're out working and you come back to class.
Speaker 1:With real stuff.
Speaker 2:With real stuff.
Speaker 1:I love it. That's brilliant.
Speaker 2:Then have two more mentor coaching sessions so you have some one-on-one time with one of the delivery leaders to keep deepening how you're working with your clients. You need to get six hours of practice to earn your certification from InviteChange and you have a final paper that you'll write about who have you become as a team coach and then there is the optional 10 hours of team coaching supervision that we make available afterwards because that's one of the requirements for earning the ICF certificate. So 60 hours of training in two parts and then Team Coaching Supervision is the third optional piece. Awesome. Super excited about it. It was so much fun.
Speaker 1:Yeah, no kidding, right? I could tell how excited you are.
Speaker 2:I have been teaching this since 2007 and this opportunity to evolve the curriculum was just a ball for me. So it's one of my highlights of 2022.
Speaker 1:Awesome. It seriously sounds like a lot of fun. I will put that on my plan for next year.
Speaker 2:That'll be great. It'll be good.
Speaker 1:Thank you so much for joining us for this Beyond the Page. I just want to thank you. You were my very first podcast guest and here we are over two years later and I'm so delighted to have a conversation with you again. Always so much learning and fun. Thank you. The best way to reach you?
Speaker 2:Janet.Harvey@invitechange.com. I'm on LinkedIn and Facebook and all those places, but I do answer my own phone too. You're in Canada, you're international now.
Speaker 1:We go over there.
Speaker 2:(360) 632-9092. Call me.
Speaker 1:Thank you. That's it for this episode of Beyond the Page. For more episodes, subscribe via your favorite podcast app. I know we're through Apple and Spotify. And don't forget to sign up for your free digital issue of choice Magazine by going to choice-online.com and clicking the signup now button.
Speaker 2:And then use InviteChange as your code to get a discount because I'm here with Gary.
Speaker 1:Here we go. Yes. Love that collaboration. I'm Gary Schleifer. Enjoy your journey to mastery.