Beyond the Page ~ Reflecting on Reflection ~ The journey to coaching maturity

In this interview, we talk with co-authors, co-creators, co-supervisors, co-coaches and co-friends Kerry Woodcock, Larissa Thurlow, and Sherry Matheson about their article " Reflecting on Reflection ~ The journey to coaching maturity."

We recognize and honor that as coaches, we are all at different levels of maturity. Reflecting in and on our practice, where do we consciously and unconsciously enable or inhibit our development and journey to coaching mastery? 

The journey to maturity invites you to step into a review of your path so far, stand still long enough to notice where you are now, and look towards what lies ahead for you, both as a coach and as a human being. 

In this podcast, we will discuss the three practices of reflection, Pre-flective, Reflexive and Reflective, the metaphors associated with those practices and how we can apply them to our coaching practices.  

Kerry Woodcock, Larissa Thurlow and Sherry Matheson have had the privilege of working and playing together in a range of roles and combinations over many years, as co-coaches, colleagues, co-leads, co-supervisors, co-authors and friends.

 In 2021, they leaned into their courage and commitment to form a powerful, pioneering, co-creative trio to develop and co-lead a Team Coaching Supervision Training Program delivered through Novalda. 

Weaving together lightness and depth, championing and challenge, with a dash of irreverence, they often joke that they are two parts sparkle and one part grass stains – no parts assigned! 

The trio are all certified Supervisors with Larissa holding an ESIA (EMCC Global Supervision Individual Award) with Sherry and Kerry to follow later this year.

Join us as we learn more about the practice of reflection.

Watch the full interview by clicking here.

Find the full article here: bit.ly/WoodcockThurlowandMatheson

Learn more about Kerry, Larissa, and Sherry on their website Novalda.com.

We invite you to join us in the Novalda Conversations  These free reflective encounters for change leaders, coaches and team coaches encourage you to play at the edges and explore possibilities. What’s on the agenda? Although no two Conversations are the same, they all share a common theme – amplifying the power of relationship to lead change for a world of change. Whether you’re developing leadership within yourself and others, supporting collaborative teams, or reflecting on the evolution of a coaching practice, you’ll find a topic to interest you.

https://www.novalda.com/join-the-conversation

Grab your free issue of choice Magazine here - https://choice-online.com/
In this episode, I talk with the trio about their article published in our March 2023 issue. 

Transcript

Speaker 1: 0:08

Hello, listeners and viewers. I'm Garry Schleifer , and this is Beyond the Page brought to you by choice, the magazine of professional coaching. choice is more than a magazine. It's a community of people who use and share coaching tools, tips, and techniques to add value to their businesses and impact their clients. It's an institution of learning built over the course of, wait for it, 20 years, yes we're in our 21st year, dedicated to improving the lives of our coaches and their clients. In today's episode, I'm speaking with the trio of co-authors, co-creators, co-supervisors, co-coach, and I'm calling you co-friends, Kerry Woodcock, Larissa Thurlow, and Sherry Matheson. What did I get wrong? Did I get something wrong?

Speaker 2: 0:55

Woodcock. Woodcock. It's as it sounds.

Speaker 1: 0:58

Oh, I have a typo. Well, I'm sorry. Woodcock it is then.

Speaker 2: 1:03

Sorry, I shouldn't have done that.

Speaker 1: 1:05

No, that's totally fine. I want everybody to know exactly who you are.

Speaker 2: 1:09

I have a silly name . It's Woodcock.

Speaker 1: 1:13

Yeah , no , I'm fine with that. No, seriously. Thank you. They're authors of an article in our latest issue, "Journey to Excellence: Activating Mentor Coaching and Coaching Supervision". Their article is entitled, "Reflecting on Reflection, the Journey to Coaching Maturity". So thanks for making that be a part of it. A little bit about this dangerous trio of coaches, Kerry, oh here , it's spelled right . Kerry Woodcock, Larissa Thurlow and Sherry Matheson have had the privilege of working and playing together in a range of roles and combinations over many years as co-coach, colleagues, colleagues, co-leads, co-supervisors, there's a new one we're adding in, co-authors and co-friends. In 2021 , they leaned into their, I love this part you guys said, leaned into their courage and commitment to form a powerful, pioneering co-creative trio to develop and co-lead a team coaching supervision training program delivered through Novalda. Now, before I go, what's Novalda

Speaker 2: 2:18

Novalda is an organization that provides coaching, supervision, training, and mentoring.

Speaker 1: 2:25

Okay. And all three of you are members of that . Is this your company or somebody else's?

Speaker 2: 2:31

I'm the director.

Speaker 1: 2:33

Well, that would make it yours. There we go. No wonder you want your name said correctly. I met the director and I got her name wrong. Ah. They weave together lightness and depths, as you can tell, championing and challenge with a dash of irreverence. I love that part. They often joke that they are two parts sparkle and one part grass stains, no parts assigned . So I can't ask who's who.

Speaker 3: 2:59

No.

Speaker 1: 3:00

The trio are Certified Supervisors with, oh congratulations, Larissa holding an ESIA, which is an EMCC Global Supervision Individual Award. Awesome. And Sherry and Kerry to follow later this year. Yay. Welcome co-friends and thank you so much for joining me today. I think we've been a little irreverent in our own introduction. I love it. I love it. We get it going. We got the three of you. Jump in as you feel you've got the heart of any particular question or feeling around this article. I think it's kind of obvious why you wrote it , because of the issue and supervision and things like that. But why did you pick out that one piece about reflective, reflexive, reflecting practice?

Speaker 3: 3:54

It's a good question. I can start us off because I don't see anyone else jumping in. I think the word supervision has a lot of connotations with it. It can be a bit offputting, especially here. Although I'm talking from UK, I'm thinking from the North American perspective and that connotation that comes with the word supervisor supervision, very hierarchical and that's definitely not how we show up. We're a trio of equals and that's how we approach our supervision. So really wanting to focus on the reflection and the action and not sort of this title that it's been given is kind of what made us focus there. Ladies, anything else to add?

Speaker 1: 4:49

Well, I want to ask Sherry , because she brought it up in our warmup is you were joking, but I think serious about reflecting in the moment. I want to know how you do that.

Speaker 4: 5:03

How you do that? Well, it's like when I'm with my co-leads or like co-supervisors here, co-coaches, it's just like self is instrument, right? It's like what's happening here and what am I noticing and how does this serve or maybe not serve? But yeah, it's like, okay.

Speaker 1: 5:27

Pause. Right? Yeah. Wow. Well, I want to thank you because the chart in there on reflecting is awesome. And I love the metaphor. So I'm going to let each one of you pick one of them. And for our listeners and maybe the ones that haven't read it, tell us a little bit more about pre-reflective, reflexive and reflective and tell me the metaphor. Who's going to go? Yeah, exactly right? There's so much, it's so rich. I can go in a million different directions.

Speaker 3: 6:04

That would be Kerry.

Speaker 1: 6:05

Pre-reflective is Kerry. Go. Tell us what its meant by that .

Speaker 2: 6:12

Yeah . Pre-reflective is, you know, before you're stepping into a space, taking that pause, connecting in, maybe like thinking what might be over there, over the other side. How do I want to show up? How do I need to show up in that space? How might the other people in that space show up? I'll just have to say that's probably the place that as a younger Kerry, I spent a lot more time in and now I could do with spending a lot more time in again, because sometimes my pre-reflective space is very short. So I'd like to jump in very quickly and I could pause a little bit more and spend some more time there. There's value in that place.

Speaker 1: 6:59

If you're between coaching sessions for example, do you bring back what happened and what you reflected on to the pre-reflective process?

Speaker 2: 7:11

Great question. Yeah, because like what from there is here now in this space? So that's sort of , now I'm coming into the reflexive and how might that support where we're going? So they all connect up in that way, or can connect up that way.

Speaker 1: 7:32

Yeah. Like I do hear them as a do, do, do, rinse, repeat, do, do , do, rinse, repeat. Thank you. And who's going to take on reflexive?

Speaker 3: 7:43

Sure, I can do that. So the metaphor that we use there, hope I'm correct, I believe is like the mirror. So pre-reflective, we're kind of looking at a crystal ball. It's informed, like Kerry said, maybe with the past, but we're really looking to the future and the reflexive is sort of in here and now the mirror. So what do I see? Maybe, oh, there's that pattern that I've caught myself in many, many times. I see myself doing it and maybe it's okay, maybe I want to continue on with that. But it is taking that sort of pause and going, Hmm . I think to Sherry's point earlier, is that in service of the work of the client, whatever's happening or is this just an autopilot, keeping on the same loop and maybe a change would be important. So it's noticing and it's noticing what you are noticing and noticing also what you aren't noticing, which sounds a little bit airy fairy , but I think sometimes we have a preference. Yeah .

Speaker 1: 8:53

Yeah. What are we not noticing? It actually makes sense in a strange way. Thanks a lot, Larissa. So Sherry , is that what you were talking about in the moment? Is that mirror reflexive? Oh, okay . I get it. All right .

Speaker 4: 9:07

Yeah .

Speaker 1: 9:08

Wow.

Speaker 4: 9:10

And then the last one, which is the reflective, which is like the rear view mirrors. What we have is the metaphor there. This is one, I feel like I'm telling on myself here, when doing team coaching and then afterwards I would need space. I can't go right into reflection. I needed to like just sit and be with my own. So my co-coach would, I'm like, you have to wait, I can't go right there and then I was ready do the rear rear view mirror on our experiences together and hear from each other. I learned to actually appreciate that more and then I wouldn't need so much time on my own, but yeah, I needed to get grounded in my own self before I could go there with my co-coach.

Speaker 1: 10:07

Okay, correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't that just your version of the reflective practice, right?

Speaker 4: 10:14

Yeah. Yeah.

Speaker 1: 10:15

Right. And throughout this conversation, please bring up examples of this. Kerry did that already and I think we've covered a lot of them, but if there are any other examples, please let me know because I don't think this is as common a practice as we might think it is. I'm still challenged with doing it and remembering to do it, things like that. I tend to be quantitative and not qualitative, I think somebody told me. So I'm like more what went wrong, what went right then the higher picture, and I think, we're getting into this with supervision, I think what I'm doing when I do reflective is I stick too much to the mentor side, the core competencies rather, and not the what's going on? What am I bringing? What biases am I bringing? Things like that. So yeah.

Speaker 4: 11:09

That's what's so great about this practice and like having a co-coach or co-leaders or co-supervisors is there's somebody else to bounce things off of as well in that practice. Yeah.

Speaker 2: 11:23

And dare I say it, just what you were doing there, Garry, it's like reflecting on how we reflect

Speaker 1: 11:30

That's priceless. I love that. Ok . Yeah. Yeah. Brought that on. So we've started to mention supervision and I was speaking with another author and he'd written in his article about the negative aspect or the hierarchical aspect of supervision, but I think coaches are getting pretty clear really fast about this supervision. And I love how that other author, Damian Goldvarg, he loves to use super-vision. So it's like looking in, that kind of thing and looking in and reflecting like you guys are talking about in a co or more than one environment. What's unique about supervision for team coaches?Because I haven't talked to too many people about that.

Speaker 4: 12:20

Well, I would say besides the fact that it's really complex. Team coaches, they're working with a team, a collective, there's team dynamics happening, right? Those relationships, they're also working with sponsors, stakeholders. There's a lot of complexity. I think too, sometimes team coaches are going from one-on-one to working with teams and they may not have training. And the ICF has just come up with team coaching supplements to the core competencies. So I think we're getting there but there's still a ways to go. There's different kinds of team coaching training out there as well. Just the complexity of it and they could be working with a co-coach. So how are those systems impacting? There's just so much complexity.

Speaker 1: 13:10

Yeah . We recently did a team and group coaching issue and determining whether or not you are ready to be a team coach, and that's the big word I got out of that, the complexity, almost to a point of being scary, like, how does one start? But that was that issue and this is this issue, but supervision. Anybody want to add anything to the conversation about supervision for team coaches?

Speaker 3: 13:37

I think something that comes to mind for me, and you were talking about sort of the quantitative or the mentoring aspect, this is a bit of an assumption, but I think many people come to team coaching a little bit later down their coaching career. So it's going to that concept of maturity so you're kind of at a different level of conversation and of tapping into life experience. So I think that's what I really love about supervision is there's kind of a parallel learning growth development path for kind of the client and the provider, like the supervisee and supervisor . And that's what keeps it really fresh and exciting. So I like that aspect of it. Just want to highlight that piece for sure.

Speaker 1: 14:31

I'm starting to realize that I think I was doing this in another program. How I got into coaching was through Landmark Education, and they had a program called Self-Expression in Leadership, and you got a coach. But more than just that, when they were doing their work and having classes and stuff like that, it wasn't just a preparation, it was a sit down , think out , think about some of the participants, what their challenges were, what's come up, how can we best serve them. Then during it, there was somebody at the back who was kind of the anchor and then could kind of watch what's going on and bring forward support to the leader. And it sounds like that's what supervision is and maybe I was doing it in just in a different context. Not trained, well trained for them, but not trained for this aspect of coaching. And one of the other things you said in your article is there's an explosion in the need of supervisors and we don't have enough of them . Is that correct? Yeah?

Speaker 2: 15:36

Again, I think , maybe not so many supervisors specific to team coaching , team coaching being a newer area and that complexity and a lot of team people going into team coaching and really needing that space. So , yeah, it's an exciting place to grow and develop as well. As a supervisor, as I went through my initial training, like wow, like how that expanded my sort of capacity to be with other people in that reflective space also supported my coaching.

Speaker 1: 16:22

Yeah , I found it interesting that the ICF, the International Coaching Federation, went straight to certifying team coaches or to having team coach supervision accreditation, but they aren't making it mandatory for coaches to have supervision, just one-on-one coaching, and yet mentoring is mandatory. How do you feel about making supervision mandatory just for certification for regular coaches along with mentoring?

Speaker 4: 16:54

Yeah , so for the ACTC for team coaches, the ICF does require that they have five hours of supervision in order to get that designation for team coaches. I understand what you're saying. It's not mandatory, but your 10 hours of mentoring can include supervision, it's just not, like you said, mandatory.

Speaker 1: 17:18

Right, but it's for that. Yeah. You're kind of setting the coach off kind of half ready. Because what I'm really getting out of this whole supervision conversation is that it's as important if not more important than being technically correct with core competencies.

Speaker 2: 17:38

Hmm .

Speaker 1: 17:38

So, I don't know.

Speaker 3: 17:39

What we're looking at it in supervision is really a lot of the who you are, how are you showing up, that presence? And I'm very torn. I have a huge bias, obviously for supervision and would love everyone to be involved with it, but I think I want them to come to it on their own accord and see the magic that it has rather than being sort of forced to do it. So I see the benefit and I think some of the team coaches that have not heard of supervision and wanted to receive the ACTC have taken supervision and have had that experience and then now see it as a vital part of their practice. But I'm always just a little bit, I don't know , maybe it's the inner rebel in me, when someone tells me I have to do something, I'm like, oh , I don't know .

Speaker 1: 18:35

Well, how do you feel about that ?

Speaker 3: 18:37

You run the other way?

Speaker 1: 18:37

How do you feel about having to take mentor coaching? Having to have a mentor to get your certification renewed?

Speaker 2: 18:46

Well, what I'll say about that is just to say in the mentoring itself, there is a form of reflection in there . Where am I leading into those competencies in a great way? Where's the opportunities? So it's reflection at a certain level and I think that there's great value in that for all of us. Yes, I prefer it to be in the being of a supervisor as a supervisor, but I also very much appreciate having that mentoring and supervision as a coach myself. So yeah, we're developing as an industry.

Speaker 1: 19:26

Yeah, I know. Just, thought I'd asked the question because it seems a little odd that we're forced to have mentor coaching hours but we aren't supervision and yet we jump to the team coaching supervision. I don't know , maybe there's more of a need in the corporate world to have supervision. I've heard that's going on as well.

Speaker 3: 19:48

Well, it is interesting because there's a difference right now in the UK, right? I'm with EMCC a bit more and supervision has been sort of mandated rather than mentoring. So it's interesting how different professional bodies have chosen to go forward.

Speaker 1: 20:09

Yeah, exactly.

Speaker 3: 20:11

What if mastery just included it all?

Speaker 1: 20:13

Yeah. Right. That's what I mean, right? And to your points about, I do believe it's core competency one or two, where it says establish a reflective practice mm-hmm. So it's in there, Larissa to your point, it's like let them see the magic and that's what I'm really feeling about this whole issue about mentor coaching and coaching supervision is there's magic all around. There's overlay , crossover if you will and yet some clear distinctions, which is great. So I'm a PCC going for my MCC so I'm going to listen to this question for myself and there's three of you. How do you support reflective practice at different stages of coach maturity? And what do you consider those stages? I know you have this big chart, but let's bring it down to a conversation. Okay .

Speaker 2: 21:16

Well, I'm going to say I feel like this is a question I'm still exploring a lot, especially as we train supervisors, team coaching supervisors as well, and sort of seeing where people are and everyone's got their own way of reflecting as we spoke earlier on. So I do think this question that you brought up about mentoring and supervision, there is reflection in the mentoring from like what am I doing well, what could I do better, which is sort of a n e arlier stage form of reflection and so there's one place where we can get that in mentoring as well, and we can get that in supervision. So I think that's a great place, I d on't want to say to start, there's maybe some other places to go, but a great place to start and that's from that looking back sort o f place. So sort of like a first place to start.

Speaker 1: 22:13

Okay

Speaker 4: 22:14

Just the fact that you mentioned, Garry, ACC, PCC MCCC, I know that they need to have some sort of , but I don't think hours makes has anything to do with your maturity as a coach.

Speaker 1: 22:32

Well, maybe the answer to this question isn't that there are different reflective practices at different stages. It's just being engaging in it period to support the journey you're on.

Speaker 2: 22:49

I am going to say, I think that is correct and it's like, for all of us on our journey and we're going to have primaries , we're gonna have our biases. Whether it's even in those three different forms of reflecting, like past, forward, in the space. I do think as we develop, and I'm not an MCC coach, but I'm also wanting to get on my journey to an MCC coach, but being able to bring that self-awareness of self as instrument as Sherry spoke about earlier, and to be able to self-reflect in the moment with your clients can elevate. I think that you have a greater capacity to hold more for yourself and for your clients and for who they're working with too. So that's the place to grow.

Speaker 1: 23:39

I think you just opened something up for me too. It's like, so if you're a new coach and you're kind of in the ACC to PCC world, you're really focused on the core competency. So mentor coaching is probably more important than how did I do? Quantitative versus qualitative like, how well am I doing? How well, right? So the maturity, it just expands. It starts with the core competencies. It includes mentoring, but then you start to do more. Okay. Yeah. I'm seeing that.

Speaker 3: 24:12

Yeah. I think building what you're saying, Gary , to me the first step is just starting to pay attention.

Speaker 1: 24:22

Oh.

Speaker 3: 24:23

Paying attention. When we think about, when we all started coaching, we were so up in our heads, we were not paying attention. We were listening to the dialogue, right? And so I think that evolves and it's helping people just first of all pay attention and then sort of notice what they're noticing, I guess. Cheers, but then it's changing what we see and then it's maybe like changing the way we see and that's kind of , I would say, a bit of a continuum. Like Kerry said, I think this is something that we reflect on all the time. That's the beauty of it. There isn't a black and white answer of this is the magical key .

Speaker 1: 25:16

Yeah.

Speaker 4: 25:17

Just to build upon what Larissa said, like I even reflect on my own learning, is we're holding whatever model that we're learning from whatever school in our head, we're focusing on the model and we're like, okay, well what's a good question to ask here? What I do with students now , I'm like, okay, so it's like week whatever, don't have anything around you, just be in the space and be attuned to your client. And they're like, oh yeah, that was totally different.

Speaker 1: 25:49

Yeah. Sherry, I remember in the early days of my coaching, and you had the page of hundreds of questions to be ready. So all you're focused on is having the right question ready. You weren't listening to a thing they were saying. It was horrible. And then most recently, one of the things that I learned, and I think it was from Janet when we were in the course together, Sherry, is where I keep just little cryptic notes about the previous session and just to be ready. I think that whole concept of being ready already stops us from being ready to listen to the client. I'm starting to notice now in my coaching, I'm not using that so I I flip that under and start fresh and it's like, where are they now? Duh. That's what we're supposed to be doing and I wasn't doing that. So little snippets of information come to me from different people about how to do. One of the other ones that I'm doing is, and because of the shift in the core competencies it changes, when I meet with someone and they're not like me, I'll self declare , if we're doing on Zoom, I'm like, obviously I'm a white guy. I'm a white man of privilege and I know from my standpoint what that means. How does that land in your life? How do you identify? What are the things that brought you to where you are in your life? And then the really big one was to move away from the coach-client relationship because it sounds like the coach is here and the client is here. So how do I get them to understand when it's here, especially when it's cultural and I'm dealing with somebody that's been taught to call everybody, sir. Every guy rather, right? It's just a cultural thing. It has nothing to do with respect earned or any of that sort of stuff. So everything's a work in progress. I love all of that and the pieces of information I'm getting like today. I know what I'm going to do next, but I'd like to know what you think our audience should do as a result of this article and this conversation.

Speaker 2: 28:01

Oh , I'm like, what advice do I have to give?

Speaker 1: 28:06

Ah , well, it doesn't have to be advice. It could be you really must at least start doing this, you know. So I'll tell you what I'm doing and give you an example. I work through a company , BetterUp. I'm a coach with BetterUp. And they have had, and the fellow left, a supervision thing called Courage Hour. So I'm going to go back to them and say, okay, so what's replacing that? Because that really was supervision. Now that I know more about supervision and it's supervision with a lead coach and your peers, so it's in a group. So you learn and, and get perspective from all kinds of people and it was brilliant. I did it once and I was flying with about four clients because it was supervision. It wasn't about core competencies. It was about who I was being, how I was seeing those clients, how I was arriving for those clients. So that's one of the things I'm going to do.

Speaker 2: 29:02

Nice. Yeah. I've always loved this quote, "The unexamined life is not worth living" and I think it's Socrates, but it was in a novel that I read years and years ago, and I'm playing with more and more like the unreflected system is perhaps not worthy of life. That's a bit dramatic .

Speaker 1: 29:27

Yeah . Right . It is very dramatic.

Speaker 2: 29:29

So , for myself, keep reflecting on the systems that I'm part of and how I'm impacting those systems. Where am I showing up and I guess I want to explore more how I am reflecting and how I've reflected in the past. So I guess for others to be in that reflective place around reflection, what reflection means for them, how it can support them in the systems. And yet of course I'd love them to come and try professional supervision of some sort in some place and see what it has to offer.

Speaker 1: 30:11

I love that statement. Start with what does a reflective practice mean to you? What does reflecting mean to you? Obviously, we've got three of you, all different answers, ideas, common of course so you share all of that sort of stuff, but it's different for everyone. I'm the kind of person that would think there's only one way to do it and so what's the right way ladies? No, I'm not asking that. Larissa, what would you like our audience to do?

Speaker 3: 30:45

Yeah, I think just thinking about my own process, I think I'm very reflective on my own , but I know I can only get so far reflecting by myself, right? I garden, I do pottery, I do things where I really do have that quiet space to think back. I think what really helps me to reflect is when I'm with friends or people that are very different from me and it really makes me kind of think about why do I make these assumptions? Where do these biases that I take as given come from? So I think it's, I don't know , maybe it's just like leaning into discomfort with others a bit more. I think, our world has become very divided and I've heard people say, well, why do you want to read that or listen to that? I think, well, because I want to be disturbed. So there's my advice. Go out and get disturbed.

Speaker 1: 31:47

Okay . Alright you two. Is she disturbed or what? Right . Not at all. You're disturbed in a very great way. Thank you. Any last words on that or our conversation today as we wrap up?

Speaker 4: 32:02

I would say for me, one of the practices I do in the morning is I pull one of my Oracle cards and it just starts my day off. So in terms of reflecting, what does this mean for me for today? And then it's with me throughout the day as I reflect as well. I'm making up a story here as well, Larissa and Garry. Group supervision, what I love about it is I feel like I'm looking under the rock constantly with others, with peers and I love that. It is a little uncomfortable. I dont know if disturbing sometimes is the right word. Yeah. It's like, ah.

Speaker 1: 32:51

Okay , we got two out of the three of you as disturbed.

Speaker 2: 32:55

Now you know about the sparkle and the grass stains.

Speaker 1: 32:59

There we go. Right? Yeah . And I'm sure you toss the ball to each other and take turns being any one of those.

Speaker 4: 33:09

It is hallenging your status quo is what I would say and that's what I love about it. Yeah.

Speaker 1: 33:14

Yeah. Wow. You know , one of the reflective practices is what am I not doing that I wish, like, how do you say it? Not to end up at a point in your life where you have regrets. That would be one way of saying it, but to say, okay, what should I be doing now that I could say is a fulfilled life? Right? So I've done things lately like rock climbing. I've started a series of books like you were mentioning, stuff like that. So I'm kind of going with that t heme because I have a plan. I say to all of my h ealthcare practitioners, everybody, I had a facial yesterday, my massage guy, my facial, my dental, everybody, what do I need to do to thrive beyond 102? So I reflect on that a lot. Is what I'm doing now supporting or hurting my thriving beyond 102?

Speaker 2: 34:14

So curious why 102?

Speaker 1: 34:16

Well, a hundred was too easy.

Speaker 2: 34:19

Okay.

Speaker 1: 34:19

Literally 102 was just a made up non 100 number. And I know it can be that without a lot of effort because my heritage is of longevity. So I'm thinking that's eh, and then I didn't want to say at a hundred and two and then I got my birthday and the next day I keel over dead . Right? I had to reflect on the reflective statement.

Speaker 4: 34:46

Right?

Speaker 1: 34:49

Was it really saying what I wanted to say? Oh my gosh, this was amazing. Thank you so much for joining us for this Beyond the Page episode. I have two questions and it may answer the same way. Where would you suggest people start to go look for a supervisor?

Speaker 2: 35:09

Hmm .

Speaker 1: 35:10

And then the question is, what's the best way to reach you? And I know you have the answer to the second one.

Speaker 2: 35:14

Well, I'm going to be cheeky and answer both of them at the same time. One place to go and start to look for a supervisor is join us over in Novalda .com , that's NOVALDA .com , and join us in our conversations because you can get to know us and we are a team of supervisors and we have other supervisors that are part of our team as well. So you could talk to us, have one-on-ones with us, and we can share the rest of our colleagues as well that are out there in the world.

Speaker 1: 35:52

Awesome. And that was a totally selfish question because I'm looking to start having supervision and I'll be a Guinea pig, I'll be a client, I'd love a group offering. So Novalda . com. And we'll put that in the stuff that goes below this recording stuff. Oh my goodness. This was wonderful. Thank you again so much. That's it for this episode of Beyond t he Page. For more episodes, subscribe to your favorite podcast app and we just did research on that and it turns out that Apple and Spotify are the first two, but our own website seems to be gaining traction too. And we use a system called BuzzSprout, if anybody wants to know. While you're at our website, don't forget to sign u p for your free digital issue of choice Magazine if you're not yet a subscriber by going to a nd clicking the signup n ow button at choice-online.com. I'm Garry Schleifer, enjoy your journey to mastery. Thanks.

Speaker 4: 37:00

Thanks for having us, Garry.

Speaker 1: 37:03

Oh , my pleasure.